#317 - Roy Bickel - Legendary Rigger, Performer, and Industry Pioneer

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Sure you do.

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Then you need the Roy Bickle
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Roy and his staff will teach you
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super superhero.
You get tips on costume

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flying lessons, fun with big

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guns, and of course, hurting
pesky news crews, and much, much

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more.
And of course, there will be

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plenty of time to have fun with
all the babes.

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That's right, let's just face
it, chicks dig.

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Superhero classes are forming
now, so you must act quickly for

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a limited time only.
You can get this complete day of

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training for only $250,000 cash
only.

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So call 555 the hero.
That's 555 the hero.

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Hello and welcome once again to
Geese of Gear.

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Thanks for joining me today.
I didn't want to say it, but

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God, I'm looking forward to
today's podcast.

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It is a good one.
This gentleman is literally the

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godfather of rigging,
rock'n'roll rigging, and quite a

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story he tells.
So I hope you're looking forward

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to it.
It's a great 1 and I also wanted

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to mention that we are doing
these two events at LDI this

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year and actually registration
for Dining with Dinosaurs as a

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single event, one event ticket.
Basically you can go to just

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Dining with Dinosaurs and
nothing else.

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It is going to be an incredible
networking event, some real

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legends including today's guest,
but a lot of really, really

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great people are going to be at
Dining with Dinosaurs this year.

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It is on Saturday night.
So it's a networking event, some

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drinks, some food, some round
tables, a panel of incredible

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people, the who's who of of our
industry.

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And so Dining with Dinosaurs, as
I said, you can go to LDI show

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now and you can buy tickets just
for Dining with Dinosaurs.

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We of course don't make any
money from that.

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It goes to the show.
And secondly, myself and Jake

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Berry, in cooperation with LDI
are creating the X live concert

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light or concert sessions,
sorry, concert lighting

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sessions.
I was going to say.

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And so this is a really cool
thing.

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It's a, it's a, I think it's
like 930 till 5:30 or something

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on that same Saturday.
So it goes from there straight

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into dining with dinosaurs after
they are two separate events,

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but X live really is a deep
immersion in a quick one day set

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of sessions into concert touring
some very, very important

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topics.
You can see those topics again

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on LDI show website.
But, and I think there's a bunch

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of passes where it's already
included in the past so you

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don't have to pay extra.
And I can't remember what those

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passes are called or anything,
but we'll be promoting it a lot

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more when we get closer to the
show.

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So I'm very much looking forward
to both of those events and I

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hope that all of you and the
entire industry supports it.

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These are both going to be
perennial annual events at LDII.

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Think they'll both be extremely
successful this year.

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I'm almost positive Dining with
Dinosaurs will sell out based on

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the success of last year and
just the amount of people

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talking about it.
We're getting dinosaurs reaching

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out to us this year saying
please make me a part of it.

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So really looking forward to
that.

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And so today's episode is with a
gentleman named Roy Bickel.

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Roy is a legendary rigor
performer and industry pioneer

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with a career spanning over 60
years.

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Roy Bickel is a living legend in
the world of live entertainment.

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From his early days as a
professional water skier in the

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60s in Florida to flying through
the air as a human cannonball in

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a circus, Roy's path has in
anything but ordinary.

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In 1969, he transitioned from
circus tents to concert tours,

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launching A groundbreaking
rigging career that would span

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Broadway arena concerts,
Olympics, and global

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productions.
He helped standardize the

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color-coded wire rope system
still used today and talks about

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that on this podcast, Trained
generations of riggers, and also

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worked with icons like Elvis
Presley, Joni Mitchell, Billy

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Joel, Kiss, Destiny's Child,
Beyoncé, and so many more.

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Roy's expertise has taken him
from rigging Mary Poppins to fly

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across arenas, to managing
safety on Olympic flames, to

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innovating load bearing
techniques still in use across

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the industry.
His reputation for grit,

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ingenuity and mentorship is
unmatched and his stories are

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jaw-dropping are as jaw-dropping
as his career.

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Anesta Lifetime Award recipient
and 2025 Parnelli honoree.

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Roy continues to work, teach and
inspire, proving that curiosity,

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courage and character can take
you from a hotel pool ski show

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to the biggest stages on earth.
So please welcome Roy Bickle.

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Roy, Hello.
How are you today?

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Wonderful, Sir.
Thank you very much.

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Yeah, it's a long time in the
making.

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I think we actually first
started talking about doing a

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podcast with you last year prior
to the to the dining with

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dinosaurs thing.
We did.

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And you know, Sarah's
persistence.

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So it took her a year, but but
we got her done or we're getting

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her done.
Yeah, yeah, Sarah's good.

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I'm I'm fortunate to have her,
so I appreciate you taking the

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time to do this.
You know, you're doing so many

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things as far as giving back to
the industry, you're educating

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people, you're getting involved
in some of the things we're

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doing like dining with dinosaurs
and, and X live and I know

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you're doing LDI rigs thing as
well.

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So, you know, thank you for all
of those things you do.

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I I love that about our industry
and, and you're certainly one of

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the leaders leading that charge
of mentorship and education and

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stuff.
You know, certainly when you get

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into something like rigging,
education is important.

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And you know, I'm old enough to
remember not the days that you

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started in this, but certainly
the earlier days of rigging,

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especially rock'n'roll tours
when guys were wasted out of

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their mind and, you know, not
using safety harnesses or fall

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arrest or anything and, and
climbing these rigs.

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And you know, it, it, it was
certainly a much more dangerous

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game, even though the, the, the
systems and the, the shows and

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stuff are so much larger today.
And, you know, when you get into

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some of the stuff that Tate's
doing with their navigator and

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people flying around and all
kinds of crazy stuff, it's

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certainly got potential for more
danger.

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But I think because the industry
as a whole has grown up and

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become, you know, more educated
and more careful and more

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professional.
Yeah.

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So we have so much to talk about
today, and I'm not even sure

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exactly where to start except
maybe at the beginning.

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You know, you had what I would
call a very unique beginning in

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that I believe you started as a
water skier.

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Yes, Sir.
How?

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How does that happen?
I was in St.

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Petersburg, FL going to college,
St.

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Petersburg Junior College, and I
knew how to ski because I had

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learned.
And when I lived in Miami and I

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was on the way to the beach and
I see a ski jump and a bunch of

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guys skiing and I pulled over
and so happened they needed a

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young strong guy.
So I joined them and we did ski

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shows and around the Bay Area of
Saint Petersburg and Clearwater

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and Bradenton and I was ended up
being the guy that fixed all the

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ropes to make special links for
pyramids with different numbers

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of people, 2 and 3 high.
So I got my really basic rope

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training while I was doing ski
shows and we did crazy stuff.

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We ended up doing ski shows and
swimming pools.

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Hal Elgin, who was the the head
of the group, said, hey, I've

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got an old Austin, an old car
that he wanted to use to pull

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skiers.
So we figured out how to Jack it

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up and we made a drum and well
and bolted it, took a wheel off

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in the back and bolted it to it.
Test the rope to it went through

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a pulley in the front and we had
a problem of course making the

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speed constant.
So we came up when we put a bar

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in with pins and each each Jack
would have a gear and a pin

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number.
And so Oh yeah, so barefoot

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which was the fastest maybe that
would be second or third gear,

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4th pin and you would just hit
it to the pin and that would be

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your speed till you hit the
brake at the end of the run.

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This was for a course the pool
shows, and we also did them in

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marinas and the Marina area
where you could really drive a

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boat, but you could park the
car.

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And we did all kinds of
accidents and pools, pyramids.

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How big were these pools though?
Oh, they're like almost Olympic

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size, which I think is God,
Almost 50 meters.

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So what can you do as a as a,
you know, show skier or

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whatever, from one end of a pool
to another end of the pool?

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Well, we.
We, we used to do a bear for

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that.
And the way we did that, I was a

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Guinea pig.
I would have two guys with their

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arms out and I'd lay on my back
on their arm and then we would

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go back and forward till the
rope was tight.

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And then I would be locked in
and I would nod and one of the

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guys would signal and the guy
would hammer, you know, hit the

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pedals in the metal.
And that would be instantly,

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say, 42 miles an hour.
And then sometimes I clear where

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I'd be on top of the water and I
could see.

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Another time there would be just
so much spray I couldn't see.

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And he would, like, hit the
brake.

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And then of course, I would
sink.

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We graduated to making a plywood
deck that we laid over the side

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of the pool.
And then we'd get that water

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down.
So you would stick to it.

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I'd lay down on that and then I
would hit the water and I

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wouldn't sink at all.
I would be already at barefoot

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speed.
And then one time in the very

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beginning, you're still
depending on the driver to hit

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the brake.
And he didn't hit the brake.

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I hit the side of the pool and
we had a little ramp and I said

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to him, wow, I'm lucky for you
that I hit the ramp.

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He said you didn't come near the
ramp.

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And I went over and looked and I
could see little skin marks.

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Oh my God.
Fortunately, I didn't break

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anything and I just skidded on
the pool.

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Thanks again for joining me on
Geese of Gear.

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Wow.

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We did stuff where we on the
parade, we would have a boat

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towed with a car and we would
ski just on crummy skis that we

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were going to throw away behind
it on the asphalt.

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And we did crazy stuff.
And then we were the safety boat

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for boat races, what we call
around the island.

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And then what, while I was doing
that, I would go to the beach

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and do high bar stuff and we'd
practice dismounts to the sand.

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And I met the guy that said,
hey, you're, you're pretty

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agile, why don't you come down
and try out for our youth

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circus?
I said, wow, that sounds like

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fun.
So it's one of the same.

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One of the parts.
There was a girl, Fei Zucchini,

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who I didn't know at the time,
but she would had married the

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son of the guy who invented the
human cannonball.

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Oh my God.
And so while I'm working with

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her at the trapeze high wire
trampoline, while we're doing

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that, there was a rash of
accidents in the Circus of

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Cannonball.
Broken back, broken legs and no

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deaths.
And she said, hey, we need a

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cannonball.
You want to, you want to do it?

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00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,840
I said yeah.
OK, Roy, Roy, hang on a SEC,

224
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,640
because I got to back up a
little bit here.

225
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,960
I mean, so first of all, like
when you started the skiing

226
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,640
thing, you're in your what, late
teens?

227
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,520
I was like, yeah, 19/20/21 and
like 61 or 60.

228
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,400
Were you just crazy?
Were you just like, were you

229
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,680
just a daredevil type of person,
type of kid?

230
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,840
Let's let's have Roy try it.
Yeah, so all your friends would

231
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,360
dare you to do things, and you
were.

232
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,560
On there's water ski and stuff.
OK, Is there any besides anybody

233
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,480
here besides Roy that's strong
enough to hold the center of a

234
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,480
pyramid?
That would be the question.

235
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,520
Wow.
Sometimes could be volunteers

236
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,360
and sometimes it would be me
against.

237
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,000
Was this it like the Wisconsin
Dells or something?

238
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,040
Yeah, Well, yeah, we we competed
with Cypress Gardens, which is

239
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,960
in the center of Florida.
We did, I think more stuff than

240
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,600
they did at the time.
We did backward tournaments, 15

241
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,400
man too high, 3 high.
I forget the number of people

242
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,320
that there were.
We did more stuff.

243
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,320
But then if we got hurt, we lost
work.

244
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,200
But we didn't have to cancel a
show.

245
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,040
Somebody else could do it.
Yeah, I, I went to the, I went

246
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,240
to The Dells probably.
Yeah, that was circus people,

247
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,080
the Wisconsin. 91 or something,
I think is when I went there.

248
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:16,800
My, my, my ex-wife was from the
Chicago area and I, I visited

249
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,320
her at one point when we were
dating and I remember going to

250
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,520
The Dells for, for a weekend and
I was like, this place is like

251
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,400
stuck in the 70s.
And it kind of was, you know, it

252
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,600
probably still is today.
But I remember, I remember the

253
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,240
water skiing shows how great
they were.

254
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,960
I was like, wow, where did this
come from?

255
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,160
You know, so it came from you.
You were one of those guys.

256
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,000
So I didn't do the Dell, but I
did all around Florida.

257
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,880
Oh, OK, OK, yeah, I haven't, I,
I live in Florida most of the

258
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,640
year and I haven't been to to
those places in Florida, so I'm

259
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:51,920
going to have to check that out
too.

260
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,240
So, you know, you, you are some
kind of a daredevil, obviously.

261
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,600
And not only are you attracted
to that sort of lifestyle, it

262
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,319
seems to take notice of you and
go, hey, this guy's special, you

263
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,560
know, he's, he's either crazy
enough or talented enough or

264
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:13,000
strong enough or whatever it is.
But so it just kept coming,

265
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,319
right.
So after the water skiing, like

266
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,880
you said, you're you're suddenly
joining the circus and getting

267
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,520
shot out of a cannon and.
Yeah, the I lived in Saint Pete,

268
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,280
the Cannon, Papa Zucchini
Edmundo was his real name, but

269
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,000
we all call him Papa lived in
Tampa.

270
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,440
So I went to Tampa and he, they
had a vacant lot.

271
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:40,040
And the cannon shots are
adjustable, like a slingshot.

272
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,120
The further you pull back, the
further you go.

273
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,840
And the first shots, it just
poops you out.

274
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,120
The cannon is like over the edge
of the net and it just poops you

275
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,680
and then you go two or three
jumps until you're at the top of

276
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,600
the net.
Then the cannon moves back and

277
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,680
you do the same jump you just
did, but now you're landing in

278
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,200
the beginning of the day.
So I did.

279
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:09,480
My 42nd shot was a professional
cannon shot and I think

280
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,480
Montreal, and I didn't know it
at the time, but he said, oh,

281
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,880
this is going to be a double
cannon.

282
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,200
I said, what's that?
Well, two of you get shot.

283
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,840
You'll be the second one shot.
Ruth, who they called Edwina

284
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,320
because everybody had to be in
the family.

285
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,080
Yeah, called me Roy Zucchini.
Yeah.

286
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,680
Anyway, they said Edwina or
Dwayne, I forget which it was,

287
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,520
will get shot 1st and then
you'll get shot out.

288
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,400
You'll follow her in the air
about 15 feet behind her.

289
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,880
Don't look at her.
I said OK, but I did look at it.

290
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,360
So I was in the early stages and
so my jumps and landings were

291
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:51,840
all good.
But later on as I got used to

292
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,360
everything and I would you black
out when you shot because like

293
00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:02,720
1213 GS, Oh geez, I blacked out
and I'd come to you over the

294
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,800
net.
Then I would adjust myself and

295
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,320
start thinking about landing.
Does that happen every time?

296
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,760
Like do you do you black out
every time or or just once in a

297
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,200
while?
Every time for the about the

298
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,440
first year, towards the end of
the first year, I all of a

299
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,320
sudden I didn't black out at all
and I saw the smoke.

300
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,640
There was a flash pot and the
mouth of the barrel and

301
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,240
something triggered it when I
passed over it and it would go

302
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,840
off and the smoke would follow
me.

303
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,800
I saw the smoke.
I see the net, you know, 140

304
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,840
feet away.
I did a long jump.

305
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:45,400
I did 165 feet, 55 yards and the
nest, you know, 100 feet away,

306
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240
and I know I'm dead.
And then I realized I'm still

307
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,400
going up.
Then on my landings were all

308
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,760
overturned because I'm looking
for the net.

309
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,840
And I finally had a guy, an old
cannonball, tell me, says look

310
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000
with your eyes, not your head.
So in other words, don't look

311
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,240
like this.
Look over your nose.

312
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,440
So I learned how to do that.
And then from then on, all my

313
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,120
landings were really good.
Let me let me ask you something,

314
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:14,200
Roy.
So in these cannonball things, I

315
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,920
mean everyone, I think when
you're young, especially people

316
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,280
think it's a cannon, you know,
that there's actually some sort

317
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,120
of, you know, explosion inside
of it and that explosion is

318
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,960
what's projecting you.
What actually is it though?

319
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,640
What is the like?
Is it a spring of some sort

320
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,560
that?
A potion was all bungee.

321
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,840
There were like 24 three quarter
inch bungee cables and you're

322
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,200
inside a cylinder like a Oval
Coca-Cola can.

323
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,800
Yeah.
And the bungee is attached

324
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,920
around the the cylinder that
you're in.

325
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,240
And they go through pulleys at
the mouth of the barrel, back

326
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,360
through pulleys at the bottom of
the barrel, which was 23 feet

327
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,200
long, and then goes up and is
anchored to the side.

328
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,240
And then a winch pulls it back.
And the whole thing really

329
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,920
farther back you pull it the
further you go.

330
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,000
But the whole thing was having a
clean release.

331
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:11,960
Not hitting anything on the
sides or.

332
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,720
Whatever cable would keep the
cylinder from following you in

333
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,360
the air.
And.

334
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,400
It was like an over and under
shotgun there.

335
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,240
I I'm in the top cylinder and
the bottom cylinder where the

336
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,320
other person, usually it was
Ruth and then it was a guy named

337
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,760
Wayne Mickey.
I worked with different guys.

338
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,880
I was always the guy at the top
that went the furthest.

339
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,640
Yeah, interesting.
So it's, so it's basically like

340
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,040
a platform, you know, and and
then bungees are attached to the

341
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,560
back of it and they pull the
platform.

342
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,120
We're actually attached around
the sides and it's a cylinder

343
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:48,720
with a bottom to it.
Yeah.

344
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,200
And then a bar, which I never
sat on, but there was a bar,

345
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,240
like at the crotch level, so if
your knees gave out, the bar

346
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,720
would catch you.
I see.

347
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,080
And the girls all sat down, they
told me, but I never did.

348
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,480
I always felt better standing
up.

349
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,600
And it's so tight.
If you get in with your arms up,

350
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,520
you can't get in.
Yeah, You can't get your elbows

351
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,200
tucked in, Right.
And I learned after my first or

352
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,840
second time to stop myself at
the top, get my elbows in and

353
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,760
then slide down.
And then wiggle like this and

354
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,400
then you become real tight so
there's no wobble in you when

355
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,600
you're shot.
So what keeps you from catching

356
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,400
the sides and like slowing your
projection out of it or

357
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,520
whatever?
And the cylinder, you're like my

358
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,040
fist, you're inside it and it's
on tracks and you're inside it

359
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,200
till it comes out of the barrel.
Oh oh, so the whole cylinder

360
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,080
goes forward?
And you keep going, yeah.

361
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,440
I get it.
I get it.

362
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,960
So you're not just standing on a
little platform and the platform

363
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,400
launches you out, you're
actually in a.

364
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,720
Tube and a cylinder with the
bottom to it and the whole thing

365
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,520
goes.
Oh, OK, I get it.

366
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,360
Yeah.
Just curious.

367
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,440
I've.
I've never known how that all

368
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,600
worked.
I knew it wasn't an explosion,

369
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,240
obviously, but.
And, and my five years in the

370
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,400
circus as a performer, prop boss
and rigor, we never bridled

371
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,440
anything.
Every circus show was laid out

372
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,960
according to where the beams
are.

373
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,880
I've got a wire rack.
You look for where the main beam

374
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,360
is that you know, and that's
where you hang the wire rack,

375
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,360
which doesn't take much weight.
Oh, yeah, we'll do crappies over

376
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,400
here.
And all the girls that tada, the

377
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,560
girls that climb the rope and
pose and look pretty, yeah,

378
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,960
we'll do them here because
that's just a lightweight being,

379
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,160
you know, there's no weight.
And I handled the girls a lot of

380
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,760
times for 10 bucks a week, you
know, I'd handle the rope and

381
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,440
swing it when they wanted to
rotate.

382
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,080
And so that that's also
interesting and and you know,

383
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,240
you had no training or anything
for this, right?

384
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,960
It was just like, hey, you want
to go in the cannon and you did

385
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,840
your training there.
My acrobatic training was in the

386
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,880
youth service, OK, And then also
as a cannonball.

387
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,160
I also did trapeze.
I was a fill in flyer.

388
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,960
I wasn't a good flyer, but I was
a brave flyer.

389
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,520
I'd fly to anybody, but I did
more catching because I was a

390
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,200
good catcher.
But a lot of Flyers didn't want

391
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,680
to fly to a new catcher, you
know.

392
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,360
But I I wasn't afraid so.
Where did you get this?

393
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,240
Where did you get this
fearlessness from?

394
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,720
Oh, young and dumb, but I just.
Did your parents do anything

395
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:34,640
weird?
Like, were they?

396
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:42,800
My dad was career Susan Roebuck
God in the 40s when Second World

397
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,920
War happened my dad and both my
uncles ran to join to join up.

398
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:54,320
My dad landed in Normandy so to
me as a real hero my 2 uncles

399
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,280
look were on boats which doesn't
make it but not a hero landing

400
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,480
in Normandy.
As a hero thing.

401
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,800
And he made it 19 days and he's
under a tree limb and a 88mm

402
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,680
tank shift hits a limb above his
head, fragments, takes off his

403
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,200
right hand.
He grabbed it.

404
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,200
And he's telling me this.
He grabbed it, wrapped it up,

405
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,720
and then the medics finally come
to get him and he's on a

406
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,000
stretcher and he gets shot.
Either the thigh or the butt.

407
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,960
On a stretcher.
And then they flip him over and

408
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,480
he's shot and either the thigh
or the butt.

409
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,960
So he got a triple heartfelt
cluster with the three injuries

410
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,720
all on his right side. the VA
did good, really good with him.

411
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,760
But then.
He survived.

412
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,560
Sears.
And he worked for Sears until I

413
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,320
think he was 48 and he retired
and he and my mom followed me to

414
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,920
Madera Beach.
And even though I was gone with

415
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,920
the circus, I still saw them
quite often.

416
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,640
So that.
Was did, did they ever sit you

417
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,160
down and say now, Roy, we'd like
you to maybe think of a

418
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,320
different approach?
Getting shot out of the cannon.

419
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,800
I can't blame her for that.
My dad watched, I took him to or

420
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,080
I'd say, hey, we're playing
Baton Rouge, which was the

421
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,720
closest city that I was doing
the cannon and they came and my

422
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,640
mother, he'll hit her eyes.
My dad said I think I saw you.

423
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,760
But the the there were two flash
spots.

424
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,480
There was a slow burner for the
smoke and then a fast burner

425
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,160
which was a bang.
There was a bang and then a

426
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,480
puff, he says.
But I think the bang made me

427
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,800
jump and I might have missed
you.

428
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,240
So I may have just seen the
second guy.

429
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,800
Yeah.
But anyway, that was so the only

430
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,800
time they visited.
Let me ask you, before we before

431
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,040
we move on from the cannonballs
and the water skiing and stuff,

432
00:26:52,040 --> 00:27:00,680
how often did you get hurt?
I almost missed the net, both

433
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,320
being shot low where the bungee
fouled up and it stopped me.

434
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,160
And then one time, you know, I
always aimed it and you know, I

435
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,360
could only see the front of the
cannon, but I ended and one of

436
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,680
the back wheels was in a rut.
So the back was like cocked.

437
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,840
So the barrel instead of going
like this, it went like this.

438
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,080
So, and I didn't know that
because part of the ACT is

439
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,880
styling and smiling and climbing
up on standing on the cannon

440
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,720
barrel and as the barrel goes
up, you're standing and then at

441
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,240
the top you salute and then get
in the barrel.

442
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,880
So I didn't know it was crooked.
And I got shot out and instead

443
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,600
of hitting in the center of the
net, I would have missed the

444
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,840
net.
But I grabbed it the edge of the

445
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:48,680
net.
Yeah.

446
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,040
And then recoiled up.
I held on.

447
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,480
It flipped me back into the net.
Wow.

448
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,320
It was in the circus.
And I had spotter guys.

449
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,520
I used to have movies of this.
They said, oh, yeah, we would

450
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,680
have caught you.
And I looked at the movies and

451
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,280
they hadn't even moved.
They went in after I recoiled.

452
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,480
Yeah, so.
You know, I had when I was in

453
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,400
the overturning where I was
looking with my head instead of

454
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,880
my nose, I would land feet first
in the net and my knees because

455
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,360
I'm bow legged, instead of
hitting my nose, they would hit

456
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:25,480
me like below the eyes and that
black eyes did overturning.

457
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,080
I would twist my ankles.
I'd have them taped up.

458
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,800
But eventually, you know, after
talking to this old like I am

459
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,920
now this old circus guy and he
told me, you know, look with

460
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,400
your head, not your nose.
I did no return anymore.

461
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,400
Then I could actually look
around while I was in the air.

462
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,920
Interesting piece of advice.
Yep.

463
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,920
So you never, but you never got
seriously injured?

464
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,200
No, I never broke anything
during the in the circus.

465
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,440
My biggest injury was when I was
catching and I was still looking

466
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,720
with my head instead of my nose.
And I stretch that over and I

467
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,640
was catching a girl doing a 1
1/2 OK, which is a like a

468
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,680
backward somersault.
And her legs were supposed to

469
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,680
hit my arm.
But because I wasn't looking and

470
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,640
she didn't know how to do the
trick, instead of taking it up,

471
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,320
she traveled it.
And so she caught me in the

472
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,800
mouth, knocked me out, took my
teeth through my lip.

473
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,880
And I'm just, my legs are
wrapped around the the catcher's

474
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,040
trapeze and I'm just passing out
and I feel myself falling.

475
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,920
And I tightened up my legs and I
didn't fall.

476
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,400
But I'm bleeding and blood is
everywhere.

477
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,720
And I cut down the rope with the
girls.

478
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,640
No.
Are you OK?

479
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,160
Are you OK?
And I bleed?

480
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,000
Never.
I see.

481
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,320
I'm fine.
It's the Flesh 1.

482
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,200
Yeah, wow, that is.
Crazy they showed me up, I still

483
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,160
got a still bite it every once
in a while.

484
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,160
So how did, how did you
transition from circus performer

485
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,040
to to rigor?
You know, because you, I, I

486
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,480
don't know if people know this.
I'm, I mentioned it in the

487
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,360
intro, but you really are kind
of the godfather of, of at least

488
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,160
the rigging that we know.
Rock'n'roll rigging, theatrical

489
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,520
rigging.
This episode is brought to you

490
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Without bragging, yeah, I I'm

521
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,960
the first.
Yeah, I was.

522
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,080
We did a date with a cannon
where we hung the net.

523
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,200
It normally was on net poles,
like the pencil here, the Nets

524
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,440
here.
But because there there wasn't

525
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,440
room or there was something that
went on the ground, they said

526
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,000
we're going to hang the net.
Oh, yeah.

527
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,240
What's that?
Well, then they have blocking

528
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,720
falls and then the circus
riggers, which I wasn't at that

529
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,560
time, hung the point, but I said
to Papa, I said I'm I'm going to

530
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,080
go up and see how that's
connected.

531
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,640
So I I was a good climber.
I went up and looked at it and

532
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,080
the prop boss, Casey Gibbs saw
me says, hey, you're a pretty

533
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,920
good climber.
We need a circus rigger.

534
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,920
You want to be a circus rigger.
I said sure.

535
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,920
How much said like 125 a week or
something that's.

536
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,080
Good money back then, huh?
And then I gravitated from there

537
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,920
to prop boss and I'm doing a,
this is the transition.

538
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,080
So I I'm doing a show in, in New
Orleans, another show in New

539
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,640
Orleans and it's indoors.
And Bob Yorks, who was A at the

540
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:31,440
trapeze act and he was a
stuntman, got a call from Disney

541
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,640
and he didn't want to be the
advanced tech rigger.

542
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,680
He said, I got a guy right here,
let me see if he'll do it.

543
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,480
And Bill Blanton was a certain
the Disney guy, and he put me

544
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,240
with Bill Blanton.
I spoke to him on the phone and

545
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,680
he said, when can you join us?
We're already in rehearsal.

546
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,920
I said, well, I can be there
when the show is over in in less

547
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,320
than a month.
And what to pay?

548
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,120
It says 275 a week plus 155 per.
Damn.

549
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:03,880
Wow.
I'll do it.

550
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:11,239
So I flew to LA, to KTLA.
We were rehearsing in Culver

551
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,880
City Studios.
I joined and I from circuses I

552
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,440
learned they can every act
carried their own steel and they

553
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,400
would have a short seal and a
long seal for each point and

554
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,480
there would almost always be
extra steel.

555
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:34,159
And when you we tied everything,
there were no baskets or, or

556
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:38,280
even chokes that you just wrap
it and do a clove hitch or a

557
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,320
rolling hitch and then take the
excess and tuck it into the wrap

558
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,760
so the steel's not hanging down.
Yeah.

559
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,080
So I always wondered why circus
acts didn't have their own

560
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,280
steel.
I'd already figured out in my

561
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,960
mind what I was going to do.
And on Disney, I said, can I

562
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,719
make all our own steel?
And they said, yeah.

563
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,360
So I made five 10s, twenties,
30s and 50s.

564
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,880
And I was.
So how am I going to tell them

565
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,280
apart?
Ah, red, white and blue.

566
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,440
That was easy.
Red for five, white for 10,

567
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,160
Blues for 20, 30s and 50s.
What will they be?

568
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,120
I did an alphabetical yellow
green.

569
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Yeah.
And my blue, yellow green.

570
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,120
And that's still used everywhere
today.

571
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,320
Really.
Yeah.

572
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,000
Wow.
On Disney, I did all quarter

573
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,760
inch.
The heaviest point was 1000 lbs.

574
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,920
And I bought all the shackles.
And then we just use 3/8 and

575
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,960
half inch because it was all
lightweight stuff.

576
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,520
And did that for five years on
Disney.

577
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,840
I was the only touring rigger
and we had the bridal things,

578
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:52,200
which wasn't done before Disney.
And in Madison Square Gardens, I

579
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,120
became the touring rigger
because there weren't any other

580
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,440
other than circuses.
Circuses dead hung with fleet

581
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,960
angle or whatever for a grid
that they hung, which was a pipe

582
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,000
grid.
And then all the axe, all the

583
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,080
lightweight axe would hang from
there.

584
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,680
The heavy act would all be dead
hangs.

585
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,400
Wherever there was a dead hang
being on Disney, there was a

586
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,400
theatrical floor plan and
everything, not everything, but

587
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,480
both things had to be bridled
because you had to hang it

588
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,080
according to the plot or the
dancers would have to record it,

589
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,040
be choreographed.
So the guys in Madison Square

590
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,400
Gardens asked me to move there.
They said, well, you can work

591
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,360
here, So what do I make?
And he said, you'll make, well,

592
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,360
it's a grunt.
You'll make about 1000 a week.

593
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:47,960
But I was just finishing Disney
and gravitated into Rock'n'roll.

594
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,160
And I did theater in between, by
the way.

595
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,200
But I said, no, you know, I
can't really move here.

596
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,920
But coincidentally, I'm doing
one of the late Disney shows and

597
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:07,160
it was Osha's first show.
And so the Madison Square Garden

598
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,680
guy said, hey, talk to Roy.
He's the rigor he he done to

599
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,240
every round in the world, he'll
know.

600
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,840
So they talked to me and really
asked me a question, is that

601
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:17,960
safe?
Is that good?

602
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,520
I said, yeah, the dangerous
acts, you know, you'll see they

603
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,920
have a safety belt.
It wasn't really a like a league

604
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,520
legal safety now, but it was
legal enough then where if you

605
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,040
fall you don't hit the ground.
And in the early days, you know

606
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,480
the performers would wear it
mostly.

607
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,560
But the Rigor didn't have any
safeties Didn't.

608
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,240
Wear No I didn't.
Want a safety?

609
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,600
Yeah, that actually weight that
cumbersome stuff.

610
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,000
Well, even for many years when
safeties were introduced into

611
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,440
the rock'n'roll industry.
That was a rocky pulse and made

612
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,840
that happen.
But most of these climbers still

613
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,000
didn't didn't use it, you know?
I saw my first harness in 88.

614
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,920
That was actually from Ed Kish
and Ed Kish and Rocky Paulson

615
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,640
and Joe Branham, Bobby Grenier.
They all worked for me in the

616
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,360
early circus days.
I supplied all the rigors in the

617
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:20,160
when Rock'n'roll exploded.
And because I've been to all the

618
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:28,080
buildings, I would still do a
side survey because now rigor or

619
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,840
excuse me, buildings are getting
there, their ringing guy, their

620
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,280
AutoCAD guy.
Yeah.

621
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,640
And then I would have to go over
with them where where we were

622
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,320
going to hang and what we were
going to act and how much weight

623
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,280
it was going to be.
So a lot of your, a lot of your

624
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,480
work probably in the early days
was sort of like consulting,

625
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,440
like where either venues or acts
were coming to you and saying,

626
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,160
hey, Roy, you know how to do
this stuff, how should we do it?

627
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,640
Yeah, the the early vendors
would call me and saying, you

628
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,560
know, hey, what rigging do we
need for Elps or what rigging do

629
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:07,280
we need for the Stones or
Aerosmith, you know, the early

630
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,080
acts.
And I, I would tell them

631
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,720
actually going back to Disney,
they asked me, do you have any

632
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,840
credentials?
And I've got years of experience

633
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,360
with no credentials.
They said you need something.

634
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:27,880
So I spoke to a guy named Doug
Rawson with Cable Co in LA and I

635
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,360
said I need to get a
certification of some kind.

636
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Is there any rigging
certification?

637
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:38,520
And I said no, there's not.
But we have a crane class which

638
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,320
certifies that, you know what
rigging gear is and what ratings

639
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,800
are.
And so I said, oh, I'll take

640
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:52,720
that class.
So the class was on Queen Mary

641
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,480
and Long Beach.
That's where the class was.

642
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,400
So I went there, I took the
class and I got that from Doug

643
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,120
Rawson.
Roy Bickel is shown to be

644
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:07,160
knowledgeable and certified in
the use of wire rope rigging and

645
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,800
clips.
Some kind of wording like that.

646
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,760
Yeah.
And then later on, wow, though,

647
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:18,080
which rigging classes came to be
with guys that I thought, you

648
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:23,840
know, Rocky Paulson, Bill
Sapps's, Ed Kish.

649
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,160
Small names, small names in the
industry.

650
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,560
And Joe Brown and then me, we
all had rigging classes.

651
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:39,560
And then in 2004, Rocky got
hooked up with ASA and the ETCP

652
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,960
rigging certifications and he
asked me to be one of the

653
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:48,480
subject matter experts.
In 2004, I was living in here in

654
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,680
Vegas and the classes were in
Kansas City.

655
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:59,400
So I became a one of the subject
matter experts with Rocky and we

656
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,920
wrote the arena certification
questions and answers and we had

657
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,160
to have an attorney there
because we didn't want to be

658
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,920
sued later if something
happened.

659
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,440
So there was a lot of multiple
choice and that's what I did and

660
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:22,400
I did all my paperwork to get
ECTP rigging certification and

661
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,600
my certification 0010.
My goodness, you want.

662
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,480
To do it, that was even before
the arena certification, and I

663
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,200
became 011 so #11 for that.
That's wild.

664
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,560
Early certification, I'm still
active, I still have the cards.

665
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:47,520
I still CSETCPALDI.
In fact, when I when we go

666
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,320
there, I'll be there, of course.
Yeah, that's wild.

667
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,640
So how where did it go from
Disney after that?

668
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:04,200
From Disney, I had a short run,
OK Pete Feller did all the

669
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,000
Broadway shows.
He was like these shop and he

670
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,320
did Disney as well.
And he came there and he watched

671
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,760
me rig and he watched me fly
Mary Poppins and then Peter Pan.

672
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:24,360
And it was a console with an
inductively coupled antenna and

673
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:30,120
a single phase unit shred on
each side of a WAVY track that

674
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,440
powered these cars.
He had six cars with push button

675
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,920
control, forward, reverse, up
and down, slow, medium and fast.

676
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,400
And he saw me flying Mary
Poppins, which I'll talk about

677
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,400
in Mary Poppins accident in a
minute.

678
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,720
And he said, hey, if you ever
leave Disney, come to New York

679
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,080
and I'll keep you busy doing
Broadway shifts, OK?

680
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,040
And at that time, I wasn't
thinking about it.

681
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,600
Hang on one second, while we're
still on Disney, was Disney like

682
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,440
really important to the
foundation of rigging in that

683
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,520
they had the money and they had
the ideas and engineering and

684
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,600
stuff to be able to come up with
such grand vision?

685
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,280
And because it was the first
show that really hung to a plot.

686
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,880
Yeah.
You know, and I had to go survey

687
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,400
every venue to make sure we
could play it and rigid rules,

688
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,120
you know, oh, if we can't hang
the proscenium here, we can't

689
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,440
afford to come do the show we
hang here.

690
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,840
So we're going to have to not do
this venue unless you change.

691
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,400
Prior to hang from a plot was
just basically wing it.

692
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,040
It was it was wing it and the
only shows that I there were

693
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,400
eyes shows and circuses.
They both had a grid.

694
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,360
Yeah, They would hang A-frame,
didn't matter where it was,

695
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,560
because aerial acts and
choreography wasn't according to

696
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,960
the grid.
Why didn't you just move a

697
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,280
light, which was done with
bucket trucks in the early days,

698
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,480
I believe.
Yeah, On Disney I was the

699
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,000
focuser and that was the
climber.

700
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:09,160
Interesting.
Oh no, I was talking about Mary

701
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,000
Poppins.
Mary Poppins flew and son she

702
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,320
hung by an umbrella with a
wristband and I was a flock, the

703
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,640
automation guy and I forget what
venue it was.

704
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,160
She got about 75 feet and lost
power to her trolley.

705
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,880
So I'm on headset and I holler.
Mary's dead and I take my

706
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,800
headset off, throw the power
button, run back, say to the

707
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:41,640
ladder, climb up, traverse out
to where she is, throw my rope

708
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,440
down.
Guys on the ground, which we

709
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,000
already had just figured out if
it ever happened, they tied a

710
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,400
thick rope on.
I pulled it up to above her and

711
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,760
then she transfers from her
umbrella and her arm is getting

712
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,120
sore by then but she's still
singing.

713
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,280
Oh my goodness, she didn't even
stop the show.

714
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,480
This was a live show I assume.
The rope, she looks at me and

715
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,480
now is a thank you and then goes
down.

716
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,960
Doesn't miss a beat.
Guys on the ground are holding

717
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,400
the rope and the show goes on.
Wow.

718
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,040
Up to the rest of the show.
She can't fly, but we still do

719
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,600
the show so huh.
Nobody's hurt, but the whole

720
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,360
audience sees it.
They're all clapping like crazy.

721
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,720
Well, was there, was there a
Disney?

722
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,400
Was there a, was there a Disney
executive somewhere who needed,

723
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,200
who needed oxygen?
When he heard on the radio,

724
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,240
Mary's dead.
Yeah.

725
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,360
The production manager, the
queue caller, they're all there.

726
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,120
Yeah, Mary's dead.
Mary's dead is.

727
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,560
Yeah, Mary's dead is not
something you want to hear over

728
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,120
the COM system, I guess.
They, they knew what I meant,

729
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:51,720
Mary.
'S dead.

730
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:54,880
Yeah, it.
Was I did want to say Mary's

731
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,640
lost power.
I'm going to run up and.

732
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,200
You didn't have time for all
that nonsense and.

733
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,880
Then the crew knew.
Yeah, yeah, that makes.

734
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,760
Sense and on script somebody
else was going to climb up, but

735
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,000
my adrenaline was flood
flooding.

736
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,720
So I ran back and I climbed up.
And also I was a faster climber

737
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:17,000
anyway.
Yeah.

738
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,760
Young and dumb in those days.
Yeah, it sounds like it.

739
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,600
I like it.
Thank you.

740
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,360
So go back to the story after
Disney now.

741
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:31,280
OK, so I went to Rock'n'roll.
I'm, excuse me, I went to

742
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:32,560
Broadway.
Yeah.

743
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:38,240
And I did Chicago, The Wiz,
Pippin, Chorus Line, Not in that

744
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,960
order.
Small shows, Just just little

745
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,640
shows, right?
Pardon.

746
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,120
Just the little shows.
Well, they were big at the time.

747
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,120
I'm joking.
Yeah, I'm joking.

748
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,760
Pete Keller Scenery built all
the shows while I was doing

749
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,840
that.
This is the real transition.

750
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,760
Coincidentally, they built the
set for Jethro Tull and Pete

751
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,480
says, hey, I need somebody to
head up for Jethro Tolter.

752
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,320
That's going to be 2 units
because we're building it.

753
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,440
I said, Oh yeah, OK, I'll, you
know, I like Rock'n'roll.

754
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,800
I have a lot of rock.
I mean, I like Broadway.

755
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,360
I have a lot of stories from
Broadway.

756
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,200
But I said, yeah, Rock'n'roll
sounds exciting.

757
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,600
I think I'd rather do that.
So I did Jethro Toll.

758
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,000
I put the crew together with all
Disney people.

759
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,920
Casey Gibbs, who was still in
the business, but he wasn't

760
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,240
doing rock'n'roll yet.
Macy's the one who got me into

761
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:39,040
rigging on the circus.
OK.

762
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,960
So he was on one unit, I was on
the other.

763
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,040
Anyway, Bill McManus had the
lighting.

764
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,240
He's out of Philadelphia.
Yeah.

765
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,240
And I helped him put the rigging
together and he said we're going

766
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:56,240
to use chain motors.
And I had used one on Chicago.

767
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,880
So yeah, I thought that would be
a really good way to do shows.

768
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,520
So he said.
But we have to figure out how to

769
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,880
make them work upside down.
In those days, right side up was

770
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,560
motor up on a trolley and a
factory or in a theater, because

771
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,920
that's where I'd seen one on
Chicago said.

772
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,560
But we want to turn them over
and have them in a box and have

773
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,840
the chain go up and hook it.
But they don't work right.

774
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:29,720
So we puss with it and met with
ACM and then figured out that

775
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,000
you could turn the contactor
over because they were gravity

776
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,640
contactors, which means they
wouldn't work upside down

777
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:42,640
because the relays were and then
right side up they would work

778
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,120
with the with the contractor
upside down.

779
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,120
But if you lay the motor on its
side it would chatter that it

780
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,680
was still gravity.
So we got CM to put a coil in

781
00:48:53,680 --> 00:49:00,640
and make 110 Volt contactor.
So you hit a button for up and

782
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,680
the contactor was two way flip.
It would flip one way and your

783
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,640
three phase would go up.
You go the other way and they

784
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,160
would cross phase and the motor
would go down.

785
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:19,200
So we started out on Jethro Tull
with an advanced truck carrying

786
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:25,160
just the chains and then and the
rigging and then we'd, you know,

787
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:31,120
do the bridle or the dead hang
and then when the hang the chain

788
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,080
with the butt with a an airlift.
In the early days they were

789
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,120
airlift compressed air.
Yeah.

790
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,760
And then the guy went to take
the hook, light it up, hook it

791
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,640
into the bridle.
We'd nod our heads if the bridle

792
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,280
was good.
Eyes were at 45 feet.

793
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,800
And we did a couple of shows
like that then discovered, hey,

794
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,960
we don't need, you know, the
disconnect the the chain from

795
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,000
the motor, which is what we had
to do and then mess up the

796
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,000
limits.
So we had to bypass limits and

797
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,120
everything.
But we ended up that we didn't

798
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,480
have to pre rig because we
didn't know how long it was

799
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:14,000
going to take overnighters, two
different units, you know.

800
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:21,120
So we would end up at show AI
mean Rig A here, that's AB Rig

801
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,000
B, and then we would do reggae
with the day off.

802
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,600
Leapfrogging basically.
Yeah, Leapfrog.

803
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,720
Yeah, you know, there's still
now shows the leapfrog and then

804
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:36,440
as as we got better at it
rigging wise, we didn't have to

805
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,040
leapfrog, you know, as long as
we started ringing, long as

806
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:46,760
rigging truck was on time, we
would have a pretty good flow

807
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,200
for the day.
Yeah.

808
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,280
You ready for band sound?
Check in the afternoon.

809
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,960
Yeah, what what were in those
early days of, of rigging like

810
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,160
that with motors, what were some
of the complications or

811
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,280
challenges that that you
discovered and had to overcome

812
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,080
other than flipping the motor
which you've.

813
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,040
Already covered getting
qualified rigors.

814
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,440
Yeah.
So I supplied most of the rigors

815
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,160
because shows what all clients
call me.

816
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:21,000
When I did the Stones in 75 God,
one of the opening acts was the

817
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,320
Eagles.
Another one was a Rufus Chaka

818
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:29,840
Khan.
I mean, acts in 7576 with, hey,

819
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,440
we can make some money if we
carry our gear and hang sound

820
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,680
where we're not blocking all
these seats.

821
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,440
And but there were no rigors,
touring rigors.

822
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:49,040
So I took my stash of guys, Joe
Branham, Mike Grassley, Jim

823
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,800
Barnes, you know, all these
early rigors and then I would

824
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:59,600
break in new rigors where I
would have them do do the out.

825
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:02,960
So this, you know, you could
climb and do the out.

826
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,440
Once you learn how to do the
out, then you'll know what's

827
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,160
done.
And I can have you do a load end

828
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:10,840
where you're actually hanging
the points.

829
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,720
You'll see by the and it's all
tying, knot tying, clove hitches

830
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:18,480
and rolling hitches.
We took the same things I had

831
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,200
learned in the circus, which
wasn't technically correct, but

832
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,400
rigging had not really been
advantage yet.

833
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,920
As.
Far as baskets and chokes you

834
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,760
just took you put long seal at
the top of a bridle and adjust

835
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,360
it and tied it.
You're always perfect in

836
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,280
elevation and in location.
Wow.

837
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:46,320
As I after I took the class with
a cable Co, I learned, well,

838
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,240
you're not really supposed to
tie steel, but right now that's

839
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:54,080
what we got to do.
And then learned, wow, you know

840
00:52:54,080 --> 00:53:01,400
what if we put a short cable at
the top, we can do a basket or a

841
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,480
choke.
Chokes are not even good, but we

842
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:09,240
did them and then we can really
we later on we evolved with that

843
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:13,600
kiss with a sack chain, which
originally was deck chain from

844
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,640
chips and he he took it
integrated into his rigging.

845
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,560
He was an electrician for me on
Disney and he liked it.

846
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:30,080
So he he formed his rigging in
San Francisco and he really was

847
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,160
dead was deck chain, which
evolved into stack chain,

848
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,880
special theatrical alloy chain.
That's what stack stands for and

849
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,720
used that on Alabama and wow,
that made it work for bridling.

850
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:45,160
It was easy.
Yeah.

851
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,480
You know, it was easy once you
figured the bridle out.

852
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,840
You have a a choke or a basket
at the top and then your stack

853
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:56,480
chain and then your 5 or 10 or a
dog bone, which was another

854
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,480
invention.
A dog bone, a varying length

855
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,160
would be 2 foot, 30 inches or
three feet.

856
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,640
So those made rigging even more
refined.

857
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:13,440
And then as things went on show
rigors we're we're still

858
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,760
climbing that we had to climb
because house rigors hasn't

859
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,040
gravitated there yet.
As sign went on, house riggers

860
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,760
say, wow, we want to get on this
call.

861
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,440
We got to be able to climb.
And then as rigors, there were

862
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,480
more and more climbing rigors,
the road rigor like myself would

863
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,160
end up, oh, we don't have to
climb.

864
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,880
We go in, Hey, house guys, you
know how to call points.

865
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,480
Oh, yeah.
And then house guys became

866
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,560
really better than us road guys
at calling points.

867
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,640
But they know what size basket
you need or you can't wrap there

868
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,040
because there's an air duct or
there can't wrap there, there's

869
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,440
a catwalk connection.
So house guys now call points

870
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:00,080
really better than Rd. drivers.
So in those early days, like you

871
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,320
said, you'd bring your guys or
whatever.

872
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,800
So where were you getting these
guys from?

873
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,320
Like, were you going to the
circus and saying, hey, let me

874
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,080
teach you how to climb and be a
rigger or whatever, or.

875
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:15,080
They, they originally came from
the circus and from Disney.

876
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,120
And then they would be guys that
we would pick from the vendor

877
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,200
crew.
You know, vendors like lighting

878
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,960
or audio.
There wasn't really mini vendor

879
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,720
crews in those days, but they
would have, there would be

880
00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:35,400
somebody, man, I like this, you
know, and I would have guys,

881
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,400
they would be my ground rigger.
On these early turns.

882
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:43,680
There wasn't the money to have a
touring Rd. rigger and a touring

883
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,680
ground rigger.
The ground rigger for lighting

884
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,800
points would be a lighting gate.
Hey, you want to be the ground

885
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,720
rigger for the lighting point?
Yeah, there would be somebody

886
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,120
that would want to do it.
Same with audio.

887
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,640
And you would teach them really
what the assembly components

888
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,520
were going to be.
Then there was not basketing or

889
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:09,080
choking.
It was mostly what the assembly

890
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,280
component.
We'll do 5 and 10 here and only

891
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:17,240
a 10 here and 30 here or 20 and
so on like that.

892
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,960
And then they would make the
assembly and if they didn't know

893
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,800
where to tie it on, you would
tell them where to tie it on.

894
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,120
And we would leave the length of
the top and put the tail of the

895
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,760
cable and the tail of the
bowling, you know, bowling,

896
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,680
clove hitches, rolling hitches,
Those were the main knots we

897
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,280
used in the early days.
Interesting.

898
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,360
And the guys were from there.
I'd take them out on on the tour

899
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,440
and you come and be my ground
begger.

900
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,240
I'm going to let you do the
loadout.

901
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,040
Yeah, that makes that makes
sense.

902
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,880
And you can climb and get there.
OK, now the next show, you're

903
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,720
going to go up on the hang.
Yeah.

904
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,880
You'll watch on the hang.
Once you've got know these what

905
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,960
you're doing, we'll let you hang
a point.

906
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,880
And that's how it gravitated or
grown from no rigor.

907
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,800
So now there's loads and loads
of.

908
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,720
Yeah.
So as you were starting this

909
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:16,240
industry basically?
Yeah.

910
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,640
Were there any, and I hate to
talk about accidents, but were

911
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,800
there any significant accidents
that really helped to evolve

912
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,560
either your thinking or the
industry as a whole or the

913
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,760
products that were being used?
Like did accidents cause

914
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:38,640
innovation?
Yes, thanks to Rocky, Rocky

915
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,840
Paulson was saved.
Rigging became really safety

916
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,160
conscious.
Yeah.

917
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:51,480
And oh God, John, I forget his
last name in Chicago working for

918
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:57,440
me, Fell rigging.
I never wore gloves and I always

919
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,000
kept my hands in shape by
dragging him on catwalk hand

920
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,480
rails or whatever I could drag
him on.

921
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,000
Anyway, he was wearing gloves,
and we're in Chicago, and then

922
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,280
it's the stockyard Amphitheatre,
and he's hanging points and he's

923
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,120
over the balcony and he's
climbing up and he's wearing

924
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,280
gloves.
You know, you don't tell

925
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,680
somebody how to climb.
You suggest ways to climb.

926
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,400
And I said, you know, I don't
wear gloves, but if you want to

927
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,040
wear them, So yeah, I want to
wear them because I don't want

928
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:32,200
to cut my hands.
OK, So he's wearing gloves.

929
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:37,960
He's climbing up and the
Stockyard Amphitheatre was what

930
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,520
it sounds like.
It had candle shows, Stockyard

931
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,640
all came in there and use it
with dirt floor and the dirt

932
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:51,320
goes up to the ceiling.
And so the beams were all dirt

933
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,200
dust coated.
So he's climbing, grabbing the

934
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:59,320
beam and he gets where he thinks
he's holding on to steel and

935
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,160
he's not.
He's holding on to the dirt and

936
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:07,040
it breaks off in his hand and he
falls and he's over the balcony

937
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,400
and the edge of the balcony is
here, and down here is death,

938
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,760
and here is 2020 feet.
He falls and lands here in the

939
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,480
sea.
He's hurt.

940
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,800
But he's not killed.
And so John, God, I should

941
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,120
remember his last name.
He's a Chicago local guy.

942
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:32,320
And so that was a safe and safe
thing on Disney.

943
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,080
Joe Granum fell.
He was.

944
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:40,920
He filled in for Mickey on the
motorcycle and for some reason

945
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,800
the wheel came off the wire.
It was a motorcycle on a high

946
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,800
wire.
Wheel came off, flipped him off

947
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,120
and he fell, landed on the stage
and lived.

948
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,440
But he's hurt.
Yeah, I went to see him in the

949
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,680
hospital.
While I'm glad to see you, Joe,

950
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,880
he said.
I'm dying to see you.

951
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:00,520
Oh my goodness.
Funny.

952
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:01,840
Remark.
Wow.

953
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,680
Cavada, one of my early riggers
on Disney and South America, I

954
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:10,440
did the side survey, had to go
up on the roof of the Quonset

955
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:15,480
Hut, Herativa, Brazil, and
George went down there to do the

956
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,080
show and he's walking on the
roof.

957
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,920
He steps on a skylight falls
through.

958
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,320
This is the sage lying on the
concrete and Mike Relicas the

959
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,960
producer breathed.
Joe George breathed, but he

960
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,800
didn't and got, you know, some
rest in peace.

961
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,520
George passed away.
Oh no.

962
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,440
Another guy on a rock show who
fell and died.

963
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:44,640
So.
But did you know wanted to make

964
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,800
it where Yeah.
Falling and dying is not a

965
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:52,440
hazard of the job.
Falling and having a rescue plan

966
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,720
is the job.
Now, if you fall, you'll be

967
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,040
hanging below the beam and
everybody has to have a rescue

968
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,600
plan.
So that was part of the TCP when

969
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:07,800
Rocky called me because I'm
still the number one godfather

970
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:13,640
of rigging and he called me to
join the the certification crew

971
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,920
in Kansas City.
And that's what really, I mean,

972
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,440
there were already harnesses,
but there was no requirement.

973
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:27,200
Yeah.
So really Rocky and Ed Kish

974
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:34,280
helped buildings facilitate
safety lines, you know.

975
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,600
Yeah, you can.
It makes us a safe theme to rig

976
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,480
on.
You have the safety line.

977
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:44,040
One of the rules of safety lines
is the anchor has to be and the

978
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:49,640
line has to be good for £5000.
So that's was a basic rule and

979
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:53,080
that's what everything was
designed for.

980
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:57,840
Maybe the beam itself wouldn't
hold 5000 but horizontal tension

981
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:04,680
would hold 5000.
So that was those guys safety

982
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:10,440
wise were instrumental in it.
Me, I got it off the ground and

983
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,520
I made it where you you can hang
and show.

984
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,920
Yeah, well, we got new rules.
Well, this is what we got to be

985
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,280
able to do.
We have to be able to climb out

986
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,800
on that beam and be safety
enough.

987
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:28,040
So one way that we did actually
in the Legion Stadium here is

988
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:32,480
you leapcrog your safety.
There were not safety lines, but

989
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,640
you would have three attachment
points that you would carry on

990
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,080
your harness.
So one is you're always hooked

991
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,560
with.
It may not always be this one.

992
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,080
It might be this one if you're
always safety not.

993
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,080
And the other two, you're
leapfrogging.

994
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,760
And so, oh, you come, here's a
vertical beam.

995
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,480
You attach here, you know,
disconnect here, go around over

996
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:01,120
here, hook on, unhook this one,
shuttle across and so on.

997
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:05,640
Yeah, So you know that done.
Nowadays, there's a lot of

998
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,680
horizontal line, which there
aren't in most places.

999
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,560
Excuse me?
The interesting thing about

1000
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:17,520
safety, I'm sure, is that at in
rigging is, I already mentioned

1001
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,440
this before, but like, I've
known a lot of guys who are kind

1002
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,320
of like Cowboys who are like, Oh
yeah, I don't use those things.

1003
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,800
They slow me down or whatever.
Yeah.

1004
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,200
And I mean, I think eventually
it became mandated.

1005
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,600
Did you know Billy Brennan?
Probably, yeah.

1006
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:38,320
Yeah, God, the lighting company
here.

1007
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,920
Yeah, yeah, it's cinema services
was.

1008
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,760
Still around?
They went to Yeah Cinema.

1009
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:45,800
Services.
They became part of PRGA.

1010
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,600
Long time ago.
Yeah, but but Billy, you know,

1011
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,120
being a rigger and also a
mountain climber, a very avid

1012
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,720
mountain climber, One time, one
time at a dinner he was telling

1013
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,720
me a story because he had two
rules when he went climbing. 1

1014
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:05,040
He didn't use any safety ropes
or, or you know, what are they

1015
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,160
called pitons, the things that
you # into the rock.

1016
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:09,880
And he didn't use any of that
stuff.

1017
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,840
He free climbed.
And the other rule was he never

1018
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,840
told anyone his plan, where he
was going or what he was doing.

1019
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:22,600
And so he told me one time he
was in Australia and he was

1020
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,760
climbing in a crevice and he
fell to the bottom of the

1021
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,880
crevice and he broke like
virtually all of his ribs in the

1022
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,160
fall.
And so he laid there dying for

1023
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,440
about two days, I think was the
story.

1024
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,640
And then he finally said, well,
looks like I'm going to live.

1025
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,760
I better find a way out of here.
So with all kinds of injuries,

1026
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,320
plus most of his ribs broken,
somehow he climbed out of this

1027
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:49,800
crevice because nobody knew
where he was.

1028
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,760
He wasn't going to be rescued.
So, you know, it's, it's just

1029
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,960
that mentality, right?
It's like a just a danger loving

1030
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,680
mentality I think you know.
I have a couple of falling

1031
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,080
stories.
Do we have time?

1032
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,560
Do we have time?
Of course we got loads of time.

1033
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:11,640
One was on Disney.
I was a focuser in the early

1034
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:16,120
days.
We had 1020 foot steel lighting

1035
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:21,800
dresses that hung 4 on each side
and the two on the end with all

1036
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,280
static lighting.
So because nobody else climbed,

1037
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:31,840
I would be the climber.
I'd climb up 50 foot on the on

1038
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,480
the cable ladder, which I'll go
into that in a minute and then

1039
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:40,280
go traverse out on the cable hod
to get to the first Truss.

1040
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,960
And then I would go cable hod,
Truss, cable hod Truss till I

1041
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,640
get to the furthest one in the
line and then I would sit on it

1042
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:53,520
till they stop swinging.
Oh, I'm 150 feet away from where

1043
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,720
I started.
Picture the stage of like a

1044
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,360
basketball floor.
It was made to fit inside a

1045
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,760
hockey ring.
Anyway, so I'm way down stage

1046
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,360
and I'm sitting on the Truss
waiting for a stop spinning.

1047
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:14,560
Coincidentally, the Sway Pole
act, which was part of the show,

1048
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:19,680
was rehearsing.
There's four poles that are 5055

1049
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,280
feet high and they're right.
One of them's right next to me.

1050
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,720
It was a lady.
And she's on her post and she's

1051
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:33,000
57 feet away from me.
And she starts her routine.

1052
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,400
So I don't start focusing.
I'm going to, I wait because I,

1053
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:42,600
I'm, I can almost kiss her.
Yeah, but I just be, I'm still

1054
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,040
on the trust.
And she starts her routine and

1055
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:51,520
the post swings away from me and
is heading back to me and she's

1056
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,080
going to slam her head on the
seal lighting Truss.

1057
01:06:55,240 --> 01:07:01,680
So I put my hand out, catch her
head and, you know, buff her

1058
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:05,080
back and stop her from hitting a
lighting Truss.

1059
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,240
And then we both stop swinging.
She looks at me again and mouths

1060
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,200
thank you and continues with
rehearsal with one eye on me the

1061
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,120
whole time.
And then they they're done

1062
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,680
rehearsing.
So I focus that trust, you know,

1063
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,360
go to the next one, same,
reverse and repeat.

1064
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,520
Wait for it to stop swinging
because the cable swag brings

1065
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,280
both the trusted together.
Yeah, you know.

1066
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,080
And then I go trust the trust.
Now I'm back to the first trust.

1067
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,440
They all stop swinging.
I holler, you know, OK, I didn't

1068
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,120
trust everything.
Good.

1069
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,600
They nod yes.
So I have to traverse to the 2

1070
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:48,680
cable picks which are block and
fall cable picks and this is

1071
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:53,720
like first show of the year.
So I'm buffed but I'm not real

1072
01:07:53,720 --> 01:08:00,000
buff I'm a little weak.
So I I get to the the hang point

1073
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:05,280
which is 2 to 3 block and fall
with the rope coming out of the

1074
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,720
top block goes and tied to
hockey rail or something.

1075
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,920
I forgot what it was tied to and
I grab hold of the rope to help

1076
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:18,439
swing me around it because it's
like a a peek like this and I

1077
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,800
fall off 50 feet.
What?

1078
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:29,520
Hold on to the rope and I I look
up and I know eventually two

1079
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:33,880
blocks are going to hit each
other as I keep going down and I

1080
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,080
know it's going to burn my hands
but I'm mentally ready.

1081
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:41,640
I'm either going to hold on and
burn the S out of my hands, or

1082
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,960
I'm going to slide down to
whatever is on the ground.

1083
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:48,720
Yeah.
OK, so I hold on.

1084
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:52,680
My hands are hot as hot as hell.
No gloves.

1085
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:58,680
I I fuck I land with my feet in
two different cable boxes and

1086
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,520
they're almost crotch height but
not quite crotch height.

1087
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:08,319
So I land Wow and I control let
the rope go up and one of the

1088
01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:11,319
lighting guys is sitting there.
Wow boy that was cool.

1089
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,399
Can you show me how to do that?
I said that later.

1090
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,600
Yeah, yeah, maybe not.
Wow.

1091
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:24,920
A later on accident in the
circus in the old days, you know

1092
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,720
what a a cable ladder is.
Yes, of course.

1093
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,880
OK.
They're usually 8th inch or

1094
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,520
three sixteenths with aluminum
rungs.

1095
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,800
Holes are grilled in it.
The rung is got a crep below it

1096
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,600
and above it.
It doesn't matter how you grab

1097
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:43,080
it, that's how you climb.
In the old days, like in the in

1098
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,720
the circus, they were made out
of three strand rope with a

1099
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,720
wooden ring.
The wooden rings were like

1100
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:52,600
tapered and yet they stuck
through.

1101
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:56,840
OK, in the old days you just
climb, grab the rung and climb.

1102
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:03,040
I was climbing up to do
something on a wire on a trapeze

1103
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:09,160
act and I'm climbing up and the
rung pops out and I fall off

1104
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,000
backwards from about 25 feet.
Oh no.

1105
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:20,520
OK, luckily, knock on wood,
luckily I I'm over a slack net

1106
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:25,400
and the net is just above the
ground and so I get a full body

1107
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:31,080
muscle tense.
I I have better words, but I

1108
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,680
can't really use one neck.
And I flatten out spread eagle

1109
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:39,680
and I land in the net and I hit
the ground and I don't hit the

1110
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,800
ground hard enough to hurt me.
Knocks the wind out of me, but

1111
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,600
nothing broken.
Wow.

1112
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,240
And I just thank, thank God I'm
alive.

1113
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:53,080
Wow, you know 2.
Main accidents.

1114
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:58,480
It, it sounds like in that
business, you're always so close

1115
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:03,000
to death, like everyone, most
people fortunately get lucky and

1116
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,520
hit something on the way down or
catch something on the way down

1117
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,480
or whatever.
But you're, you're just like

1118
01:11:09,480 --> 01:11:13,520
that close, you know?
On on Disney, we had games that

1119
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:19,200
we played to make us strong.
One game would be we had

1120
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,880
scaffolding for Mary Poppins and
then later for Peter Pan.

1121
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:28,000
We flew Kathy Rigley, but we
would hang from it was like 3

1122
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:34,200
sections, hang, swing back and
drop to catch the next bar 8

1123
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,280
feet down.
That would be one way we'd keep

1124
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:42,240
build straight.
Another way would be to hold on

1125
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,160
to this bar and swing to that
bar.

1126
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:48,640
We only did that on the low one
where if you fell you only 8

1127
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,920
feet above the ground, she'd be
all right, right.

1128
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,000
But we did that a lot.
And then we do one where we

1129
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,680
would have these trolleys that
flew people.

1130
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,640
They'd be, we'd have two of them
facing each other and two of

1131
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,600
them would be hanging on.
And the gang would be who can

1132
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,520
hang on the longest while it's
going up.

1133
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:11,800
Eventually you're going to be
too high to drop or too afraid

1134
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,760
to drop.
And that's what you're looking

1135
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:16,840
for.
You're looking for the other guy

1136
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:18,800
to drop, and then you'd drop
immediately.

1137
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:23,120
But we never got hurt.
But every once in a while, oh

1138
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:28,640
shit, I'm too high to drop down.
Yeah, or they're still hanging.

1139
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,200
Oh, my goodness.
You know, Roy, Roy, it's funny,

1140
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,280
when, when I was a kid, I
thought I was pretty tough, you

1141
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:37,840
know, growing up in a small
town.

1142
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,520
And and to me, tough was, you
know, I rode my banana bike

1143
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,240
without a helmet.
You know, the stuff that the

1144
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:46,800
stuff that you're talking about
is.

1145
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,240
Unbelievable.
No kidding.

1146
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:51,040
Yeah, no kidding.
And without.

1147
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:52,680
Without.
Things in in those days.

1148
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,520
But without any education on it,
without any knowledge, like you

1149
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,360
were just, you were learning as
you went, so you didn't know,

1150
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,400
you didn't know the limits.
We had our strength.

1151
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:09,160
Yeah, so was your was your first
Rock'n'roll tour, Joni Mitchell.

1152
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:10,920
Was it?
What now?

1153
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,440
Your first rock'n'roll tour?
Was it Joni Mitchell?

1154
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,320
No Jethro Tull.
Oh, right, yeah.

1155
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,760
First tour with chain motors.
Yeah, Joni was I, I think my

1156
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,200
second one.
OK, Joni, we didn't have chain

1157
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,040
motors that I remember, but
there must have been in the

1158
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,720
early days.
Most tours stack sound.

1159
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,920
They didn't hang sound until the
Stones.

1160
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:37,080
Actually, on Jethro Tull we had
a basket and we stacked in the

1161
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:43,520
basket and hung the basket until
the hunters that couldn't afford

1162
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:47,160
a rigor just just house like
Elvis.

1163
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:52,240
Yeah, yeah.
Elvis, well, had me, but he

1164
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,320
didn't turn with lights.
Yeah.

1165
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:57,200
Well, one second, one second,
one second, because I want to

1166
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:58,640
ask you a question about Joni
Mitchell.

1167
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,640
I read somewhere in your notes
that there's actually a song

1168
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,760
with your name in it.
A Joni Mitchell song with your

1169
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:05,800
name in it.
Bickle the rigor.

1170
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,840
I forgot the song, but she sang
it and I I thought it was funny

1171
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:17,200
and Madison WI that I would
repel out of the ceiling the

1172
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,840
time landing right next to the
piano when she says bickle the

1173
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:22,200
rigor.
Wow.

1174
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:29,040
So, and the song was actually a
ballad, but anyway, I I climbed

1175
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,840
up of course, and I'm already
snake my rope down where it

1176
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:37,120
wouldn't be, you know, an
eyesore or she wouldn't see.

1177
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:40,280
It Yeah.
Which I did, and then I wrote

1178
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,800
Pal down.
I stopped right above her head

1179
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,440
so she would see me and then
went down where she'd say Bickle

1180
01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:49,120
the rigger.
And so she says Bickle the

1181
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,080
rigger.
I said Bickle the rigger.

1182
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,600
She says that Pickle the rigger
again, Bickle the rigger and so

1183
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:58,280
on.
I wrote a song and sang it to

1184
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:02,520
her in the band on the plane,
which I don't have a copy of it

1185
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:09,160
handy, but I was Robin Ford was
a guitarist and he accompanied

1186
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:14,960
me and it was to the the music
was to Robin Hood, Robin Hood,

1187
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:20,440
but it was Robin Ford was what I
what the first verse was that I

1188
01:15:20,440 --> 01:15:23,960
did a verse on the eighth of the
band, including Joni Mitchell

1189
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,320
that rhymes with Bickel.
That was the last one.

1190
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,160
And I don't know how I had the
fortitude to do that.

1191
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:32,400
I'm trying to watch my language.
You don't.

1192
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:34,320
You don't have to for me, don't
worry about it.

1193
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,080
That that's wild though.
Do it in front of her in the

1194
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,320
band.
Yeah, that is wild.

1195
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:42,680
Like where where did you come up
with the idea that I should go

1196
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,360
and share this song with them
and maybe they'll record?

1197
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:50,320
It well, she and I hit it off
well, Didn't have no romance,

1198
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:56,840
but she spent a lot of show a
lot of time with me between

1199
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,480
shows.
Her boyfriend didn't like it.

1200
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:00,800
Are you?
Are you sure?

1201
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,360
Are you sure you are?
Are you sure you weren't the guy

1202
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:07,800
that you're so Vain was about?
Well, could have been.

1203
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:09,560
Did she write that?
I don't think so.

1204
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,560
Yeah.
Oh, that Wasn't that her?

1205
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,120
No, that's Carly Simon.
Carly Simon.

1206
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:17,600
My bad.
I always get them.

1207
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:19,920
Confused.
One of The Pioneers as well.

1208
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,880
Of course, yeah.
Yeah, and it was her plane we

1209
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:28,640
flew on that was on 2 tours.
I've only flown hers and Elvis.

1210
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:32,560
Wow.
Elvis had five planes or five

1211
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,800
planes on the tour we had.
We had a hotel.

1212
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:42,000
Every night we made last call
because the only thing that hung

1213
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,160
were audio points.
Claire Brothers, Bruce Jackson

1214
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,960
was the audio guy.
He would tell me where he wanted

1215
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:50,840
them to hang.
We had sometimes one, which

1216
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,240
would be two points, sometimes
2, which would be 4 points,

1217
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,520
sometimes 4, which would be 8
points.

1218
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,480
And but he was always the audio
guy.

1219
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:06,480
I spent the show on the stage
right wing, which was his

1220
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:09,280
monitor wing.
Usually they're on stage left on

1221
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,240
Elvis.
Elvis wanted it on stage right

1222
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,000
And then I was standing there
with him and then if there was

1223
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:19,680
some barricade issue, Elvis
would give me the nod and then I

1224
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,880
would go.
It could be two ladies fighting.

1225
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,040
It could be too many security
guys there because he didn't

1226
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:28,200
want any guys there.
He wanted all the attention on

1227
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,680
him.
But usually it was a couple

1228
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:35,680
ladies in the audience got a
couple of Elvis stories.

1229
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:44,760
Yeah, please.
One I I did not tell yet I'm I'm

1230
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:49,960
on my wing and he's I don't know
whether it was AI think it was a

1231
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:55,000
ring or watch he had and he was
slapping hands the ladies in the

1232
01:17:55,000 --> 01:18:01,840
audience and one of the ladies
ripped off the ring.

1233
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:06,800
I think it was a ring and he
only three of us knew it.

1234
01:18:07,480 --> 01:18:10,880
The lady and Elvis and me
because I'm watching all the

1235
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,040
hand slapping because I figured
somebody would grab him and pull

1236
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:16,400
him into the audience.
That never happened.

1237
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,960
So fortunately but anyway I see
the lady who grabbed the ring

1238
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:27,920
and so I jump off the sound
riser and whole ass between the

1239
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:31,160
barricade and the sage.
You know keep an eye on the lady

1240
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:32,960
and I happen the corner of my
eye.

1241
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,680
See Elvis?
He shakes his head and mouths

1242
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,880
the word no.
Wow.

1243
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:44,800
His head again and continue
singing and I go back to the

1244
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:50,440
wing and to my knowledge the
ring could be worth a million

1245
01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:52,720
million now.
Because he didn't get.

1246
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:54,800
It I didn't see security head
out there.

1247
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,760
So he wouldn't, he wouldn't let
you get go get it back.

1248
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:02,240
He didn't want the disturbance.
Wow, so were you like his sort

1249
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:08,400
of makeshift security guy?
Or makeshift security, his

1250
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,320
family and Linda.
What Every once in a while there

1251
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:16,800
would be a a Bleacher set up
backstage for guests and I would

1252
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:22,160
walk them to the to the the
riser, not barricade to the

1253
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,360
little riser.
And it was unofficial.

1254
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:30,480
No money for it with Colonel
Parker, who he knew me.

1255
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,960
Sometimes he would do it.
Sometimes he would be busy and

1256
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:38,080
he would tell me to do it and
I'd walk him over.

1257
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:43,800
He he also would Zing out cars
stars.

1258
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:46,160
You've probably seen that on
video.

1259
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:50,920
Chicks in the audience.
The other the other show.

1260
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:52,920
This happens.
He zinged one out.

1261
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:58,040
Two ladies get it and it's a big
scarf and their tug of war on

1262
01:19:58,040 --> 01:19:59,920
it.
Neither one given up.

1263
01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:02,800
Nice catching, you know.
Gives me the look again.

1264
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,720
So I go out there and I see the
2 ladies.

1265
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:09,400
I wiggle my hands in there and
calm them down.

1266
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:11,920
And a pocket knife.
I get the knife out.

1267
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:16,000
I cut the scarf in half.
You screen their hands, they

1268
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:20,240
have 1/2 and they're happy.
He gives me a little subtle nod.

1269
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:22,000
Because that could have been a
bad one.

1270
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,880
What a what a great diplomatic
idea you had.

1271
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,280
You know, a nice way to solve
it.

1272
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:29,720
You have part and you have part.
Here you go.

1273
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:30,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

1274
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,160
I did.
I did another Colonel, Colonel

1275
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:37,240
Parker story.
I think we were in Charlotte and

1276
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:43,560
Elvis had two shows and when I
booked my schedule in 77 or

1277
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:47,400
could have been 76, I didn't
realize he had two shows.

1278
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:51,160
So I booked Queen in Atlanta the
next day.

1279
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:57,280
So because the Queen didn't have
a tour worker, so it's like 5 in

1280
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,680
the morning.
I already had it covered with

1281
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:01,440
Bruce Jackson and with the house
guy.

1282
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:03,640
It was all catwalk rigging,
fortunately.

1283
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,600
And so I get on the elevator at
5:00 in the morning and Colonel

1284
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,280
Parker's on there on the on the
elevator.

1285
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,200
He says, what do you, what are
you doing here at 5:00 in the

1286
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:16,600
morning?
I said, Oh, well, I've I've,

1287
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,880
I've got, I'm doing Queen in
Atlanta and I got to be there by

1288
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:23,680
8:00, he says.
Don't you charge Elvis for

1289
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,080
today.
Oh my goodness.

1290
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:29,040
Wow.
But I'm glad he didn't really

1291
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:30,680
ream me out.
Wow.

1292
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:33,680
Get to the lobby and I get on a
taxi and I don't know what he

1293
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,160
did.
Fortunately the out went good.

1294
01:21:36,440 --> 01:21:39,280
I went and did.
Queen and I hung at the

1295
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:43,680
barricade off all show and it
was still the days where there

1296
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:46,160
weren't climbing rigorous.
Was being out.

1297
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:49,320
Do all the points.
Was being out with Elvis as cool

1298
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:50,720
as one might think it would be?
Oh.

1299
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,720
It was great.
I mean, because he wasn't as the

1300
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,280
King.
Yeah.

1301
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:03,160
And I was that coincidentally I
was in Vegas with Bruce Jackson

1302
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:08,200
because Elvis was slated to open
the Hilton Conrad room.

1303
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:13,000
He was doing the theater and he
wanted to do an arena type room.

1304
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:19,600
So the day before we have the
show in Portland, ME, Bruce and

1305
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:23,720
I are doing a side survey.
He's giving me A&B.

1306
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:27,000
This is where I really want
sound, but if I can't get it

1307
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,680
here, you tell me where the
closest spot is.

1308
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:33,520
That kind of thing.
So I went up and I don't

1309
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:38,280
remember detail of where the
location was, but finally Elvis

1310
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:44,080
nods and I nods.
I come down, we go to our rooms,

1311
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:50,360
have a early, early, early
flight, and I'm meeting at him

1312
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,000
in his room.
I didn't know if my phone was

1313
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:55,440
ringing already, but I wasn't
there to answer it.

1314
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,680
Then in his room, phone ring.
Booth picks it up.

1315
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,160
Yeah, Roy's here.
What do you mean?

1316
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,840
Don't text the flight?
But the king is dead.

1317
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:09,240
Oh no.
And so right away, we turn the

1318
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:13,880
TV on, you know, and it's in the
news, but it's not confirmed.

1319
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,240
Wow.
Reportedly, something has

1320
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:19,640
happened with Elvis and at
Graceland.

1321
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:24,280
More details to follow.
So we stayed there and then they

1322
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,400
were goes that he's dead.
Wow.

1323
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:31,480
Or missing, as the story goes.
Yeah, Yeah.

1324
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,800
Is he still alive?
I think I saw him when I was

1325
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:36,760
getting ice cream in Nashville
one day.

1326
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:43,600
Yeah, no, that's a that's a wild
story. 10,000 Maniacs Natalie

1327
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:48,640
Merchant did an Elvis song and
she knew that we had talked a

1328
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,480
lot that that I had done Elvis.
She said why don't you, while

1329
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:56,520
I'm singing the Elvis song, come
out here on stage and do an

1330
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:01,920
Elvis dance.
So I said OK, which I did.

1331
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,160
An Elvis dance.
And Elvis dance.

1332
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:06,880
I don't remember what it was.
Just weird.

1333
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:09,640
Yeah.
And then trying to look cool.

1334
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:14,320
And we did that a few shows.
That's funny.

1335
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:16,640
That's funny.
Wow.

1336
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,160
And you, you did Sinatra too,
right?

1337
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:20,640
I did.
Yeah, I did.

1338
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:28,520
Frank and his Turing gaze, late
70s, middle 70s and his security

1339
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:35,360
guy said you, you on the tour?
I said yes, I see you always

1340
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:38,960
hanging by the stage.
I said yeah, I'm always checking

1341
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:40,960
everything to make sure it's
safe.

1342
01:24:41,440 --> 01:24:44,440
And he says don't touch his
hair.

1343
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:49,600
What?
He said you're OK around the

1344
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:53,520
stage, but don't touch his hair.
So I don't know whether it was a

1345
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:57,880
toupee or what, but.
I I would, I would guess that's

1346
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:02,560
got to have something to do with
it, but. 82 I think it was.

1347
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:07,280
I opened exchange manager for
Thomas and Mack here in Vegas.

1348
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:12,200
Yeah.
That's a UNLV yeah Arena, and I

1349
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,280
wish I did autographs in those
days.

1350
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:20,000
It was Frank and Dean and Sammy
and what's the fourth guy that

1351
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,480
was in the?
The Rat Pack.

1352
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:24,120
The Rat Pack.
Yeah.

1353
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:26,120
Joey Bishop.
Yeah.

1354
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:28,280
And they were the.
One that nobody ever remembers.

1355
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,320
They were the name then in
Vegas, yeah, I think I did all

1356
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:35,680
the climbing because there there
were still no house guys and not

1357
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:39,720
many house guys in those days.
Wow, that's incredible.

1358
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,040
What a what a friggin life
you've lived.

1359
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:43,800
That's unbelievable.
Yeah.

1360
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:48,400
And then came here to do a show
for PRG.

1361
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:56,200
Jerry Harris was the the CEO.
He was I think the first CEO

1362
01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:00,080
after Pete Feller.
Oh, Jerry Harris was my

1363
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,720
automation guy when I did
Chicago in the Wiz.

1364
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:09,920
Anyway, so he was the head of
PRGI, came here to do a show and

1365
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:13,720
then the the local guys said,
boy, move here and you'll,

1366
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:20,760
you'll make plenty of money.
So I did and then then I was at

1367
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:24,480
the Convention Center for 18
years and doing one off, you

1368
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:29,560
know, doing corporate 1 offs
doing award shows like with with

1369
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:36,360
Michael Jackson and New Kids on
the Block and Beyoncé flew

1370
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:39,560
around the world, you know,
doing award shows.

1371
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:45,440
Actually Cancun, Hong Kong, but
moving here and as soon as I

1372
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:51,040
moved here, cinema services
wanted me to head up the crew

1373
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:58,200
with the Sands and I was still
in Turing mode so I didn't.

1374
01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:02,120
But then I got asked to do GES
at the Convention Center.

1375
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:06,600
GES still does LDI.
Budget LDI for 20 years.

1376
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:10,000
Wow.
So I know most of the people and

1377
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:18,280
then even as a local guy, I
would head up the ETCP guy on on

1378
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:24,360
the LDI show because they they
wanted an ETCP guy, which was

1379
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:25,960
me.
That's wild.

1380
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:31,640
So, you know, crazy question.
Like aside from safety, how has

1381
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:35,040
rigging evolved since the
beginning of time?

1382
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:43,440
You don't need to go do a site
survey too often anymore, you

1383
01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:47,920
just get an AutoCAD.
AutoCAD and Vectorworks have

1384
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:52,760
really changed rigging.
In the old days, like on on

1385
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:57,160
Disney, I had to do a site
survey because there was nothing

1386
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:02,600
on paper to look at and I would
tell them what and where I was

1387
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:06,840
going to hang shit and it was
almost always OK.

1388
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:14,480
But with AutoCAD, you know, I, I
learned the vector works, but

1389
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:16,280
was never really very good at
it.

1390
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:20,360
So I had a girl and then I would
put in where we were going to

1391
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:23,600
hang trusted, you know, we'd
figure out where the state was

1392
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,480
going to go because front of
stage would determine where all

1393
01:28:27,480 --> 01:28:32,560
your points go and rock'n'roll.
And then I would mark stuff,

1394
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:36,000
mark riddles, pencil pad, I
would call it.

1395
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:38,200
And then I'd hand it to the
girl.

1396
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:42,000
She would convert.
It would be APDF, which is also

1397
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:45,280
would read, read and AutoCAD a
vector work.

1398
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,320
I'd look at it and say Yep,
that's good or that's not good.

1399
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:51,720
Yeah.
And never had to do vertical

1400
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:57,240
components that too much would
do horizontal components for

1401
01:28:57,440 --> 01:29:00,840
cable waste because that's
really most mostly what houses

1402
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:03,440
cared about.
Yeah, that's what really changed

1403
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:07,120
it.
My son Ben is head rigger.

1404
01:29:07,480 --> 01:29:10,800
In fact, he left today from
Miami on Morgan Wallin.

1405
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:14,360
Oh wow, and.
He he's got it down.

1406
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:17,720
I mean he does AutoCAD.
All the riggers today do it.

1407
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:23,120
I used to say that I did it, but
now I've forgotten so much I

1408
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,040
don't see I do it anymore.
Yeah, yeah.

1409
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:30,480
But that's been the main change,
along with safety rules and more

1410
01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:36,600
rigid weight requirements.
You know, I guess there's the

1411
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:39,960
local rigor that looks at the
AutoCAD and each of the venues.

1412
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:44,560
The last tour I did was Duran
Duran couple years ago.

1413
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:48,240
Lighting.
I did it and I put rigging in it

1414
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:51,000
and then they said they sent it
to all the buildings.

1415
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:55,720
When we play at the gardens,
they said you're less than 100

1416
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:56,960
grand.
It doesn't matter where you

1417
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:02,240
hang.
So it became easier because

1418
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:04,840
house guys, houses are built
better now.

1419
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:08,760
In the old days we had to do
quadruple bridles and that was

1420
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,920
no ratings at all.
Just because you can look at it,

1421
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:13,760
say boy, that's not going to
hold.

1422
01:30:14,040 --> 01:30:19,280
This will hold and do all kinds
of bridling, sometimes for

1423
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:22,480
location, sometimes for weight
ratings.

1424
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:27,840
Yeah.
But now it's a a science, it's a

1425
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:32,560
there's a house guy that knows
it all, knows his venue and a

1426
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:37,280
road guy that knows his show.
Yeah, I, I would assume that the

1427
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:41,520
gear has obviously changed an
immense amount as well as far

1428
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:46,640
as, you know, motors, motor
control systems, including the

1429
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:48,600
safety that's built into those,
you know?

1430
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:54,640
But motors, there's really not
much has changed other than

1431
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,080
there's many motors and many
different brands of motors.

1432
01:30:58,480 --> 01:31:02,280
There's still basically a
quarter ton you hardly ever use.

1433
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:06,440
There's half tons, 1 tons, and
two tons and every tier uses

1434
01:31:06,440 --> 01:31:09,120
them.
Quarter tons are just like

1435
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:13,560
you're carrying it for something
that maybe could only be used

1436
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:15,560
once in a while.
Yeah, yeah.

1437
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:19,240
So it's like using a bunch of
half inch shackles.

1438
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:24,840
Strength wise they're fine, but
why carry them when they don't

1439
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:26,240
fit anything?
Yeah.

1440
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:33,960
So now 5/8 and 3/4 is mostly the
only shackles you carry and you

1441
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:38,560
can use a double 5/8 for 3/8
steel.

1442
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:49,560
So 33 strengths of motors, 2
sizes of cable and 2 sizes of

1443
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:51,480
shackles is all you don't really
care.

1444
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:58,440
Yeah, in fact, on my on my Duran
Duran, I still in my mind have

1445
01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:01,320
yellow 50 foot steals that I'm
going to order.

1446
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:07,560
And I call call Bill Renssel,
who is a good friend of mine.

1447
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:10,520
I said, hey, here's our
schedule.

1448
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,360
Is there any building that I
need 50 foot steel?

1449
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:17,680
He says no.
He says shows are hanging higher

1450
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:23,440
and buildings are higher, but
you don't need 50s anymore.

1451
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:27,920
A 30 and a 20 for the few 50s
you would need works, so I

1452
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:31,320
didn't order any. 50s and 50s
have kind of gone by the

1453
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,120
wayside.
In the old days we even had 100

1454
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,800
footers, which you need black,
which you don't.

1455
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:42,040
Nobody needs those nowadays and
50s now if you don't need that

1456
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:46,920
often.
So 510 twenties, 30s and dog

1457
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:49,880
bones.
Well, what about what about the

1458
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:54,360
size of shows nowadays though?
Like, you know, especially

1459
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:58,400
stadium shows, obviously.
Yeah, on Disney, I had a bunch

1460
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:02,080
of riggers, but that was
training camp on Disney was flat

1461
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:07,360
from like 80 to 85 for me.
And that was training camp.

1462
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:10,640
Everybody, almost everybody was
a rigor.

1463
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:15,720
For instance, landing Lander, I
think he's on Garth Brooks now.

1464
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:20,680
He was one of my trainees on on
Disney and Kish.

1465
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:26,480
I had on Disney Bill Renssel for
a few shows on Disney and

1466
01:33:26,480 --> 01:33:29,560
they're all head riggers in
their own right now.

1467
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:35,000
Totally qualified and with Kish
rigging, Joe Brannon with

1468
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:38,360
Brannon rigging, Rocky Paulson
with Sage rigging.

1469
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:40,160
Yeah.
Yeah, those are the game

1470
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:42,320
rigging.
That's wild.

1471
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:44,880
That's wild.
But what I was asking you

1472
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:48,120
though, Roy, what about, what
about the size of shows now?

1473
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:50,760
Does that create additional
complications cause some of

1474
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:55,240
these rigs obviously, like if I
think back to the 80s and 90s,

1475
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:58,040
you might have had 20 moving
lights when moving lights came

1476
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:00,560
out.
Now every show has 1000 moving

1477
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:05,320
lights, things like that and the
LED screens and and the rigs are

1478
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,000
much heavier the speaker
systems.

1479
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:14,000
I did with two of us 2 riggers,
but now the riggers, Rd. riggers

1480
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:18,280
don't have to climb.
You don't need as many Rd.

1481
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:22,920
riggers.
My son on Durant, on Morgan

1482
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:27,240
Wallen has four riggers, 4
Turing riggers.

1483
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:30,960
I I was one of them when they
played the Legion because one of

1484
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:34,920
the guys couldn't make it.
And there's just so many points

1485
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:38,880
and so many things to watch and
load sells, you know, for

1486
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:43,760
hanging video and some audio use
load cells, which shows point

1487
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:52,520
weight because now we're really
forced to to watch loads on

1488
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:55,880
things that are that change
every day, right?

1489
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:59,800
So video of something you're
depending upon all the guys that

1490
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:05,200
hang it.
And so I spent the day on the on

1491
01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:08,920
the load cell, like I'm looking
at the monitor my computer.

1492
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:15,440
Now you you watch that all day
till videos that trim so you

1493
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:19,640
don't overload any point because
you if you don't load it evenly

1494
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:22,280
you could end up having a point
overloaded.

1495
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:23,360
Right.
Yeah, we.

1496
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:26,520
Want to make sure we're not
worried about overloading the

1497
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:30,120
house deal, We're worried about
overloading a motor and have

1498
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:31,960
something fail within your own
rig.

1499
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,400
It can.
Fail below the ceiling or below

1500
01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:38,280
the ground support.
I, I see some of these outdoor

1501
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:41,280
shows, these stadium shows and
they scare the hell out of me.

1502
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:43,920
Like, you know, the size of
these shows and the amount of

1503
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:47,040
gear that are on these rigs and
stuff it, it just scares the

1504
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:48,320
hell out of me.
Like I'm like.

1505
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:51,960
Ground supports are getting
bigger and stronger.

1506
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:57,720
Yeah, I was the rigger for Rock
and Rio here in town in in 2015

1507
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:07,000
and the you know, John got down
my my mind, my mind went blank.

1508
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:13,720
The the roof company said no,
don't have to worry about

1509
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:17,880
overloading anything.
You know, we have an engineer on

1510
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:19,000
fall.
Yeah.

1511
01:36:19,440 --> 01:36:24,360
So I did end up calling the
engineer for a dying out, you

1512
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:28,640
know, the the rig once we were
some things you have to guy out

1513
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:30,640
even even an outdoor ground
support.

1514
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:32,200
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

1515
01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:35,560
But let let me get this
straight.

1516
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:41,240
You're still working.
Mostly retired.

1517
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:44,600
But but you're in your mid 80s,
you said you just did a show

1518
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:47,520
like couple years ago or
something where you were the

1519
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,600
rigor.
I yeah, and I did convention

1520
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:52,280
work last year.
That is incredible.

1521
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:54,640
I don't know was Mark and
Weiland this year.

1522
01:36:55,160 --> 01:37:01,400
I'm I'm mostly retired by family
my my wife and son.

1523
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:06,040
Wow.
Both the mentally I think I'm

1524
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:07,840
ready.
I mean, I do get tired quicker.

1525
01:37:08,040 --> 01:37:10,280
Yeah.
I mean, I feel good.

1526
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:11,600
I sound.
I think I sound.

1527
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:13,200
Good.
You sound great and you look

1528
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:14,080
great.
And I mean.

1529
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:17,040
For an old guy.
But you're in your mid 80s and

1530
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:20,480
you're still doing rigging.
That to me, blows my mind.

1531
01:37:20,480 --> 01:37:23,560
I mean, it feels to me like it's
a young person's sport these

1532
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:29,160
days, you know?
I haven't had to climb probably

1533
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:34,640
for 20 years.
I, I actually, I did on Creed on

1534
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:36,720
New Kids on the Block.
I think it was a nine.

1535
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:41,640
My son was one of the riggers
and had to climb a ladder to do

1536
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:44,480
something on there.
Austrian.

1537
01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:46,760
Austrian rape or something?
Yeah.

1538
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:49,040
And my son said you're too old
to climb.

1539
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:52,920
That was 10 years ago.
He wasn't wrong, Roy, he wasn't

1540
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:55,680
wrong.
I will tell you I'm I'm a bit

1541
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,200
younger than you and I'm too old
to climb, that's for sure.

1542
01:37:58,440 --> 01:38:00,600
Don't you also have a
granddaughter in the business as

1543
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,720
well?
My grand Yeah, Valeria, she's a

1544
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:07,760
a local rigger and she rigged
with my son every once in a

1545
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:08,960
while.
That is awesome.

1546
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:10,720
She's a good, she's a good
climber.

1547
01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:14,520
I'm not a good climber anymore,
yeah, but she knows how to hang

1548
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:17,120
points.
She can pull 1/2 ton by herself.

1549
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:20,840
I don't know if she's got a one
ton yet, but she's got a half

1550
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:23,640
ton motor up by herself.
That is impressive.

1551
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:26,600
That's impressive.
That's good.

1552
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:31,080
Yeah, that is impressive.
So you've got 3 generations, 3

1553
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:33,120
generations of Bickles.
Yeah.

1554
01:38:33,480 --> 01:38:35,720
Yeah, well, and that's a lot of
stories.

1555
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:38,440
I mean, when you guys sit around
a dinner table or something, the

1556
01:38:38,440 --> 01:38:40,640
stories that are being told are
unbelievable.

1557
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:41,800
Yeah.
Yeah, I.

1558
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:48,000
Did a keynote in 2012 in London.
I forget who that was for.

1559
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:49,720
Plaza.
I think Plaza.

1560
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:52,400
Plaza.
Yeah, you got it better than me.

1561
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:56,040
Yeah, well, I read your notes.
Good.

1562
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,160
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, your story's

1563
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:00,960
incredible.
I appreciate so much.

1564
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:03,680
You've taken some time today to
to talk with me.

1565
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:05,760
About going into the couple of
movies I've done.

1566
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:07,520
Oh well, let's do that quickly,
OK?

1567
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:18,000
I did AGI Jane and and Orlando
and they needed somebody to hang

1568
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:24,240
out a ground support that would
hold all of their monitors for

1569
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:27,920
the control room for GI Jane.
That was all sending and they

1570
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:30,240
wanted, they didn't want
monitors on the table.

1571
01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:34,680
They wanted them all hung.
So that that was kind of

1572
01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:37,000
uneventful.
It was just a good experience.

1573
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:41,560
And then I did Oh heavenly dog
with Chevy Chase that did that

1574
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:44,520
Montreal and I, I learned
something there.

1575
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,320
They they hired me to do
Heaven's gate.

1576
01:39:49,080 --> 01:39:53,680
They have a gate that would open
and close remotely, which was no

1577
01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:58,720
problem, but they also had a
tube like banks have them now

1578
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:02,440
where you put a cylinder in it
and then compress air shoots it.

1579
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:06,240
And that was a message from the
pearly gates, I think, to the

1580
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:10,560
throne.
And I looked at the tube and it

1581
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:13,360
was on a slight angle.
I said that looks ugly.

1582
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,160
So I moved it.
I made it level.

1583
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:21,640
It really wasn't my domain.
You know, I just did it to make

1584
01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:22,720
it look good.
Yeah.

1585
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:26,440
And the gaffer said, hey, who
moved that?

1586
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:28,800
I said I did it.
I said it wasn't level.

1587
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:31,680
And he says here's why it wasn't
level.

1588
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:34,960
He said watch the little
cylinder.

1589
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:39,080
He went to shoot the cylinder.
He said, see how it stopped?

1590
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:41,880
I said yes.
He said that's because there's

1591
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:44,520
not a compressed air he built
when it's level.

1592
01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:50,520
We had to make it downhill.
Oh no God, I'm sorry if I went

1593
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:53,280
there.
Don't mess with somebody else

1594
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:55,480
stuff without talking.
To him, yeah, that's a good

1595
01:40:55,480 --> 01:40:58,440
point.
Then then I did Star Trek

1596
01:40:58,440 --> 01:41:02,480
Generations.
My job on that was to belay,

1597
01:41:02,480 --> 01:41:04,640
which is safety off William
Shatner.

1598
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:08,400
OK.
OK, so we're a valley of fire

1599
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:11,320
outdoors with cliffs and
everything.

1600
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:16,880
So we're shooting a scene live
where I'm holding his rope

1601
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:21,160
because he's like up next to a
drop off where without safety be

1602
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:25,480
fell or die or or be severely
injured.

1603
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:28,760
And they're shooting off blowing
up stuff.

1604
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:33,560
And I, I'm on this ballet line
and I, I'm see in the corner of

1605
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:35,320
my eye.
They hadn't done it live before.

1606
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:40,120
And I see all the stuff blowing
up and I hear Roy and I turn

1607
01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:42,240
around and look, it's William
Shatner.

1608
01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:47,600
He goes focus because he he
caught me with my eyes off of

1609
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:50,960
him only for a few seconds.
Wow.

1610
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:56,080
So he was very alert.
Hats off to him.

1611
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,600
So I didn't watch any of the
stuff, I only watched him.

1612
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:02,320
Yeah, wow, that was a.
Learning lesson too.

1613
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:05,520
Pay attention to your job.
That is so cool.

1614
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:09,720
That is so cool.
No repercussions on it, nobody

1615
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:13,520
got hurt, but it was learning
because I did all the lines up

1616
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:15,760
and down the mountainside for
everybody.

1617
01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:18,080
They could use ropes to pull
themselves up.

1618
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:21,840
They wouldn't get killed if they
fell, they would just slide in

1619
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:23,080
the dirt.
Yeah.

1620
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:25,840
Anyway, sorry.
What an experience.

1621
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:28,360
I mean what, what a life.
Again, I, I appreciate you

1622
01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:32,640
sharing all of this with us, Roy
and I, I actually one last thing

1623
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:34,720
I want to mention, I mentioned
it at the beginning, but you're

1624
01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:37,400
going to be at LDI in a few
different events this year.

1625
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:40,400
And, and again, I'm appreciative
and I'm sure the entire industry

1626
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:43,640
is going to be appreciative, but
you're going to be part of the

1627
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:48,000
rigs sessions.
I guess I'm doing something

1628
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:53,120
where I'm one of the organizers
with Jake Berry called X Live

1629
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:55,480
and you're going to be a part of
that.

1630
01:42:55,520 --> 01:43:00,960
And you're also a part of Dining
with Dinosaurs, which is when

1631
01:43:01,440 --> 01:43:05,280
sort of the whole industry gets
to rub shoulders with legends

1632
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:08,800
like yourself and have a couple
of drinks and some food.

1633
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:15,040
In the 70s when I did, yes, Jake
Berry was a keyboard.

1634
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:18,520
Oh really?
And I, even today, are still

1635
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:20,640
friends.
That was his first gig, as I

1636
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:22,680
recall.
He talked about it on my podcast

1637
01:43:22,680 --> 01:43:25,480
and then he.
Brats out and is a renowned

1638
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:30,000
production manager now.
Yeah, we do rock Linux.

1639
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:35,440
He was, he was one of the
speaker guys.

1640
01:43:35,440 --> 01:43:37,760
Yeah.
And I come into a room and he

1641
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,680
would say, hey, everybody,
there's Roy Bickel, the oldest

1642
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,800
rigger in the world.
That was how he would introduce

1643
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:46,000
him.
Well, he wasn't wrong, he wasn't

1644
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:49,840
wrong, he wasn't wrong.
You know, I mean, when you, when

1645
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:53,440
you created it, you know, there
was no riggers before you.

1646
01:43:53,440 --> 01:43:56,560
So that's, that's pretty
awesome.

1647
01:43:56,560 --> 01:44:00,280
It's an amazing story and I
appreciate you sharing it and

1648
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:04,920
and I look forward to seeing you
later this year at the LDI show.

1649
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:09,080
Thank you very much.
And thank you, Roy, and you have

1650
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:13,200
an incredible day and week and
summer and I'll see you let.

1651
01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:15,400
Me know when this is going to be
broadcast so I can watch.

1652
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:18,600
It yeah Sarah will get that to
you in the next week and and

1653
01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:21,280
just I'll.
Hang on for Sarah.

1654
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:23,200
Yeah, one second.
Thanks.

1655
01:44:23,480 --> 01:44:24,040
All right, Roy.
Bye.

1656
01:44:24,040 --> 01:45:03,520
Bye.
Music.

1657
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:33,320
The.