Sound, Stage, and Success with Malcolm Weldon

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I saw an advertisement saying a
sound master school of recording

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00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,400
and I was like, oh, this is what
I want to do.

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This is it.
One thing led to another and

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then led me to the theater,
which led me to Marty, which led

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me to the the, the manager for,
for for Janet.

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That's the person who brought me
in and that's the person who

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really, really changed my life.
And that manager is his name is

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Roger Davies.
Right.

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Davies managed, he managed
Janet, he managed Tina Turner,

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who's another person who really
changed my life.

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So the two of the biggest people
who changed my life with Roger

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Davies and Tina Turner.
Well, thank you for joining me

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00:01:24,610 --> 00:01:27,210
again for another episode of
Geezers of Gear today.

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And so first I wanted to let you
know I have just created a new

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web tool, website, web thing
within the whole Geezers Media

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Group, which is part of Geezers
of Gear or Geezers of Gear is

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part of.
And so this new website really

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was just created to bring news
in from all sources on our

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industry.
And whether that's gear, press

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releases, new equipment or it
is, you know, events or company

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news, people news and it's free.
It's not tracking you, it's not

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00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,840
advertising to you, it's not
doing anything.

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00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,960
You can sign up, add your e-mail
and it will send you updates

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00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,720
every day.
I think it's every day or every

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00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,720
week, I'm not even sure.
But go to event wire dot AI and

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00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,160
sign up again, it's free, cost
you nothing, brings me nothing.

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00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:29,160
It's literally just a gift that
I've given to you that brings

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00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,640
you news from all sorts of
sources and is updated

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00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:37,040
constantly.
And we'll send you those updates

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00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,440
by e-mail if you choose to sign
up.

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00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,680
So event wire dot AI is a really
great tool.

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00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,960
So I hope you'll sign up for it.
And Speaking of news, I believe

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this article will actually be on
that site as well.

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ETC just opened applications for
the 2026 Fred Foster Student

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Mentorship Program, which is a
very cool program.

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00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:06,120
Obviously a chance for emerging
lighting designers, new lighting

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00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:11,120
designers to build industry
connections through a series of

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summer online networking events
and then get matched up with an

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industry mentor who helps guide
their career for that next year

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and often even longer.
So the program was started back

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00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,240
in 1999 by Fred Foster ET CS
founder of course, who believed

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mentorship was one of the most
important ways to grow the next

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generation of lighting pros.
And ETC has carried that

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tradition forward, which is a
beautiful thing because Fred

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Foster was an amazing human for
starting this, and it's so cool

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00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,760
that ETC continues it.
And so anyways, applications are

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open now through April 10th,
which is a Friday, and while

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sessions run on North American
time zone, students from any

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region can apply.
So if you're in final year

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00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,960
undergrad in North America, a
second or third year grad

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00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,680
student, or studying lighting
and design elsewhere with a

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solid CV, this is worth a look.
Details and the application link

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are available at
etcconnect.com/student

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mentorshipetcconnect.com/student
Mentorship.

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00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:29,960
Great program and sign up or
share it with your friends and

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family and audience.
And so today on the podcast, we

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have Malcolm Weldon, who is a
veteran production manager and

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event producer with more than
three decades of experience

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leading some of the largest
tours in the world.

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From his early days as a house
sound engineer at the Beverly

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Theatre in Los Angeles, mixing
legends like Miles Davis, Miles

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Davis and R.E.M., to serving as
production manager for global

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superstars including Beyoncé,
Pink, Janet Jackson, Cher and

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Tina Turner.
Wow, he is the king of Divas.

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Look at that list.
Beyoncé Pink, Janet Jackson,

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Cher and Tina Turner, Malcolm
has helped shape some of the

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most iconic live productions of
the modern touring era.

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A Parnelli lifetime achievement
honoree who jokingly calls

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himself just an old guy with new
knees pushing boxes, Malcolm is

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known for delivering massive
brand defining tours while

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staying grounded and deeply
grateful to the crews and

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mentors who helped him along the
way.

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I like him already.
Please welcome Malcolm.

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Well, hello there, Mr. Malcolm,
How are you?

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Hello and good morning and hope
all is well in your world.

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Yeah, it's good.
It's, you know, I feel like I

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just fell off a truck or
something 'cause I was just on a

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phone call with a, a sound
company friend of mine in Canada

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and he goes, you heard about the
Megadeth truck And I said, no,

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what are you talking about?
And I'm from Calgary and

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Megadeth I guess had a truck
flip in Calgary.

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That's horrible.
But it was like 3 days ago,

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nobody got hurt but the gear.
So now they're scrambling,

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trying to find enough sound and
lighting gear to to finish the

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tour in Canada.
Oh, that's horrible.

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That's, that's, that's another
fear.

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That's another fear.
I know one more time I almost

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had a sound truck do the same
thing and it is that's

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frightening.
It's.

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Frightening.
Yeah, Yeah, of course.

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I mean, especially, you know, in
Canada, I think there's only,

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you know, a small handful of
companies large enough to just

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say, Yep, OK, we got enough
gear, we can come out and finish

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it for you.
And, you know, I guess it was

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damaged enough where the system
was pretty much completely

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unusable.
So I don't know.

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I've, I've been meaning to call
somebody from PRG and and just

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get the lowdown on that.
I just heard about it this

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morning though.
OK.

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So yeah, so anyways, I
appreciate you taking the time

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to jump in and do this.
OK, we're back.

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We were, we were infiltrated by
dogs, apparently.

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So dogs had taken over the
podcast for a moment.

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So, you know, I, I do like to
kind of go through your life

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00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,360
story a little bit on this
podcast because, you know, we

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are geezers officially.
And, and so, you know, a lot of

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like, I do get a lot of, of
older audience, I guess, but a

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lot of my audience are young
people who are just coming into

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the industry and I get messages
and calls and I run into those

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people at trade shows and stuff
where they're like, Oh, I

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appreciate you doing this so
much.

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I learned so much from, you
know, these folks on your

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podcast who have been doing it
so long.

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And, but how did you get
started?

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I think you started as a as a
front of house engineer, right?

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I started out as a sound guy.
I the whole purpose of me

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getting the music in the, in
this business was not to be

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touring.
I got into business to be a

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recording engineer.
That was my hopes and dreams to

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become a recording engineer and
eventually become like a

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producer and all that.
That's the reason I got into the

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music business.
It wasn't because I wanted to

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tour and I wanted to do.
I wasn't able to even thinking,

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wasn't able to even clocking
that.

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I didn't really understand how
you did that.

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So that no, that was in the
early 80's.

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The recording industry kind of
changed.

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A lot of studios in California,
Hollywood area started to close

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down because this this industry
changes.

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People started building studios
in their homes.

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So everything kind of changed
and I came at a time when that

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change was was pretty rapid.
And the school I went to, this

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place called Sound Masters, is
in North Hollywood.

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That's where I went to school
at.

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OK.
And I went there, I got out and,

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you know, I tried to get gigs
and I just couldn't get it.

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And then one thing led to
another.

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I started working at a theater
and, and in Beverly Hills as the

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house sound guy there.
And then different artists came

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through the theater and like I
said, I still never thought

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about going on a tour and
especially after working at the

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theater and seeing a different
artist come through and how, no,

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they're, it's kind of how their
lifestyle was, you know, you.

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Didn't it just didn't appeal to
you?

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The whole thing didn't appeal.
To you, I don't want to do that.

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That's crazy.
But in the 80s it was much

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different, you know, you know,
the way tours were routed.

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And I guess and and because I
saw bands that were primarily

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doing theaters, they weren't
either the theater where we were

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at either was bands that were
coming up or artists that were

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coming down.
So you know, you don't you don't

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know what that means from mice
perspective, but I could tell

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there was something that that's
not what I wanted to do.

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00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,120
And then the I kept trying to be
getting the recording studios

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and I couldn't do that and.
Did you ever work in a studio?

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I just did one album for an
artist I was working for, doing

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his live sound and he, he, you
know, he allowed me to record

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some tracks and stuff for him
for his album and but it just,

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you know, it just didn't happen
and.

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Couldn't turn into a a suitable
career at the time I guess.

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00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,160
Yeah, yeah.
And so one thing led to another

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and one of the tour managers
that came through the theater

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where a bunch of different
artists, I would I would

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occasionally ask him if he I
could do some work with him.

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And I am meant just like
weekends or for week, not for no

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00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,760
weeks or months on end.
That was not what I wanted to

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00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,800
do.
And he said, one of these days,

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00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,960
kid, I'll, you know, well, maybe
we'll you'll do something with

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00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,560
me and then, you know, then
eventually, unfortunately, the

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00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:18,640
the tour, I mean, at the tour,
the the theater closed and then

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I had to pivot and find
something no to do I.

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00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,560
Look at productions.
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173
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187
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We're back now.
So Malcolm had to change devices

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00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,600
because the dog ate his phone
and all kinds of problems

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00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,240
happened, and now we're on a
laptop.

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00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,520
So, yeah, we were just talking
about the fact that, you know,

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00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:18,120
you went to school to be a
studio engineer and you did one

202
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,120
album in a studio with an artist
that you were doing some work

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00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,400
with, and you were working in
the Beverly Theatre, I think,

204
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,800
right?
Yeah, that's correct.

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00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,320
Yeah.
So we're up to speed and then

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00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,400
artists started coming through
and probably offering you gigs,

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00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,640
right?
Yeah, a couple orders, a couple

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00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,800
of jazz artists, gospel.
I work for this jazz artist

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00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:42,760
named George Howard who was
became a dear friend and we

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were.
Guitar player, right?

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00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,080
Sax player.
He played sax.

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00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,160
Unfortunately, he passed away in
the in the early 90s, but he

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00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,720
was, and he was very
instrumental in me getting a

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00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:00,280
break and getting me started.
And then I, I worked for him for

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00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,720
a number of years and then I, I
did some touring with the gospel

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00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,000
group called The Winans BB and
CC Winans.

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00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,920
And like I said, I didn't, I, I,
I started doing little things

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00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,760
around town and then one thing
led to another.

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00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,800
And then I, like I said, I, I
work for this one tour manager

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00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,920
for him to see if he, I guess I
think he wanted to see how I was

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00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,440
not my, in my normal
environment.

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00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,560
And he had me do this one
festival for him as a stage

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00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,080
manager.
We did that one festival and

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00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,320
then a couple of weeks later he
called me to ask me if I wanted

225
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,200
to go on tour.
And at that point I had nothing.

226
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,680
I was, I was, I was brokered and
broke.

227
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,040
So happy he kind.
Of just to have a gig, yeah.

228
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,440
Just to have a gig.
Yes, I my, I had a one year old

229
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,840
and my wife was pregnant with
my, with my daughter at the

230
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,360
time.
And we were, it was, it was

231
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,440
rough times, tough times.
So I got, he offered this gig to

232
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,040
me.
He told me who the artist was

233
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,360
and I wasn't familiar who would,
who the artist was because that

234
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,920
wasn't the music I listened to.
So I was like, yeah, OK, and and

235
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,120
we know I got the gig and then,
you know.

236
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,000
So that was a tour or that was
a.

237
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,000
Tour that was coming up, so I
one festival thing for him, the

238
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,200
Pacific Asian Festival in Pan
Pacific Park in LA.

239
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,840
I did that thing and then that
one thing led to him, to him

240
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,960
offering me a gig.
So this was your first real

241
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,880
tour?
This is my first real tour.

242
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,040
Yeah, I had never.
As a stage manager.

243
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,600
Yeah, as a stage manager, he
asked me to come out age

244
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,880
manager.
And like I said, he offered me

245
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,240
the gig.
He told me who the artist was.

246
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,120
I didn't know who the artist was
because that wasn't the music I

247
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,440
listened to.
And then I maybe a couple days

248
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,240
later I was in a grocery store
and that's back in the 80s.

249
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,440
Where you'd walk into a grocery
store and you'd have, you know,

250
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,640
all the magazines and all the,
yeah, newspapers with.

251
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,360
Magazines.
What are those?

252
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,680
Yeah, yeah.
You know, magazine, U.S.

253
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,240
magazine, all those different
magazines, they were out back

254
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,640
then and I'd looked over and I
saw to say it's about 10

255
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,880
magazines or things.
And then and I'd attend, maybe

256
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:27,920
about half of them had this
artist that I was working for.

257
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,800
So you were like, whoa, these
guys are the real deal.

258
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,960
Yeah, this is a real person.
I mean, I didn't because I

259
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,640
didn't know who who that person
was.

260
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,240
And I, you know, it kind of blew
me away.

261
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,400
And then I, I realized that the
artist, well, I realized that

262
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,880
who I was working for was really
famous at that point.

263
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,440
And she was at that point.
And that was Paula Abdul.

264
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:48,960
Oh my goodness.
Wow.

265
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,600
So yeah.
You had no idea who she was.

266
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,680
Somebody said you're going to
come work for Paula Abdul and

267
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,720
you're like, OK.
Yeah, yeah.

268
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,760
Does she pay well, you know,
will I?

269
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,560
I'm.
Trying to get paid every week

270
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:03,640
gig.
That was it.

271
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,920
I care.
And so we went out on tour and

272
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,440
that was called the MTV tour.
That was in 89.

273
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,240
So yeah, that was.
Oh, that was like right at the

274
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,280
height of of her thing I guess.
Like.

275
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,599
Yes, she.
Was she was big right then?

276
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,640
She was huge.
She was the guest that I kind of

277
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,760
compared to the Gaga or any
really famous person at that

278
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,360
point.
Yeah, that was her moment, yeah.

279
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,560
Yeah.
So we did that tour and then

280
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,200
that, you know, as you do, you
do the tour.

281
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,640
And that was, it was new to me.
And I just thought, oh, if I got

282
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,400
done that to her, I'll just go
right to another one.

283
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,440
But that's not how it works,
because no one really knew me

284
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,640
besides the.
And what were the venues?

285
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,480
Arenas.
Skaters and arenas.

286
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,640
Wow, multiple.
Apps your first exposure to that

287
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,400
too, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

288
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,320
I mean, it was so.
Do you remember what it was like

289
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,720
to be on that first tour?
Like what was the most shocking

290
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,000
sort of stuff?
I guess the most shocking part

291
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:09,160
is you is just it's a lifestyle
of being on tour.

292
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,960
That's that's the hard part when
you first started because

293
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,680
you're, you're constantly
moving.

294
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,320
You have to understand you're
living out of a suitcase.

295
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,840
You're in in and out of hotels.
You're on a bus.

296
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,480
You know, it's not like you like
a normal person's life where you

297
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,160
you finish your job and you get
in your car and then you drive

298
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,680
home and you sleep and you get
up and go to the job again.

299
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,000
It's not.
Yeah, really.

300
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,120
Different thing so that.
Was now you're a gypsy.

301
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,840
Yeah, yeah, it.
Was a whole other, a whole other

302
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,240
different lifestyle, so I had to
get understanding.

303
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,920
What about living on a bus with
a bunch of dudes you don't know?

304
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,600
You have to get adjusted to it.
No, I had never, never before.

305
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,200
I didn't know about that.
So you got to understand

306
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,080
anything the people had.
There was other people who had

307
00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:00,960
been on tours and had to explain
to me the no proper bus

308
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,480
etiquette.
Yeah, no pooping on the bus.

309
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,720
More people on the bus.
It's just giving everybody

310
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,760
space, understanding that bump
that you're in, that's your

311
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,880
space, yeah.
And just, you know, just being

312
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,840
respectful for everybody of
everybody who else is on the bus

313
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:16,560
and so.
Yeah.

314
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,360
So was that shocking?
Like, did you want to call your

315
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:22,000
mom and say, please come pick me
up, you know?

316
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,840
No, no, because I I, I just said
I was broke.

317
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,000
So it was whatever I needed to
do to keep you're.

318
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,720
Just happy to be getting paid,
yeah.

319
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,520
No, you had paid and.
Yeah.

320
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,800
So, you know, we, I did that
tour and it ended and I thought

321
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,440
I was going to get another gig
right afterwards.

322
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,800
And of course it didn't happen
because no one knew who who I

323
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,320
was.
And I think we toured for maybe

324
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,880
about four months and then I was
off for eight months.

325
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:53,000
Then I got a boy and that led to
a kind of the same kind of

326
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,480
thing.
You work about four or five

327
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,560
months and then you're off for
another maybe 7 or 8 months.

328
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,520
And no things led to one thing
led to another, and you get

329
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,000
another tour.
And then I, I, I think now by, I

330
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:11,520
think it was 91 is when I, Paula
Abdul went back out on her own

331
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,440
tour.
It was called a spellbound tour.

332
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,560
Now the gentleman who hired me,
who actually really, really

333
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,320
helped me, I was this guy named
Marty Ham.

334
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,560
I was going to ask you because I
saw all of your artists and I'm

335
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,640
like, wait a SEC, you know, this
guy's following Marty around.

336
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,360
Yeah, any, but Marty gave me a
lot.

337
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,400
I got a lot of a lot of jobs to
Marty.

338
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,280
He was very, very, very helpful
in my career.

339
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,280
Well, you've obviously done
great work for him because

340
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,000
you're still working with all of
his artists today, you know, the

341
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:44,840
same ones.
Right.

342
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,960
Yeah, yeah, we, we kind of
crossed paths.

343
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,240
We definitely paths.
Yeah, yeah.

344
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,000
He was very, very instrumental.
So Marty, Marty was the tour

345
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,240
manager for for Paula Abdul back
then.

346
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,400
He was the tour, Paula.
Yeah, Paula tour.

347
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:07,200
And then the next time I and I,
I did some other stuff without

348
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,800
Marty.
And then another tour kind of

349
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,280
came up.
What was it?

350
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,800
Oh, Janet Jackson, he was a tour
manager for Janet.

351
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:23,640
That was back in 94.
So I that tour we toured in

352
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,480
United States and then and then
that tour ended.

353
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,080
That wasn't Rhythm Nation.
That was after that Rhythm

354
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,400
Nation, I think would have been
like.

355
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,160
Oh, this is Rhythm Nation was in
89.

356
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,800
Right.
Yeah, because I used to have a

357
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,840
Rhythm Nation tour jacket
because my ex-wife worked for

358
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,960
her her record company and so I
had a tour jacket from that.

359
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,080
I don't know where it is.
I don't think I have it anymore.

360
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,400
Maybe she kept it in the
divorce.

361
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,560
I don't know.
But but yeah.

362
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,280
So I remember seeing the next
tour too.

363
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,160
That was the one for.
It's called Janet, the one I

364
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,800
did, and that was right.
Was that the one where she did

365
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,480
the weird striptease act at the
front of the stage with the

366
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,560
chair dance thing?
Oh yeah, yes, that was that one.

367
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,160
Took a person out of the
audience and did a little dance

368
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,520
for them.
I was like, wow, you know, that

369
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,000
is crazy.
That was that one.

370
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,720
Yeah.
Yeah, that tour, you know, we

371
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:28,080
were out in all of 94 and then
the tour kind of ended in kind

372
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,600
of like no end of summer.
The tour was done, everything

373
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,720
kind of went went away.
And then I got a call that she

374
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:43,960
was another manager was taking
over her her career and he

375
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,360
wanted to see he was going to
take her back on the road.

376
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:54,680
And there's this new manager
wanted to see all of the the set

377
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,120
built because he was going to
determine how he was going to

378
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,240
know route the two and
everything.

379
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:04,200
So like I call and then we
brought the gear.

380
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,960
I built the gear and some some
studio in in the Hollywood area

381
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,840
or somewhere.
And I did all of that.

382
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,280
And then he walked around and he
would ask me what certain things

383
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,640
did and how many carts it went
in and all this different

384
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,480
information, all these things he
was asking me.

385
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,600
And I was kind of surprised
because a lot of managers don't

386
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,280
know that.
Yeah, managers are either.

387
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,600
They came from being an
accountant or a lawyer or an

388
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,480
agent or something, but they
don't know the the nuts and

389
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,840
bolts of touring.
Yeah, they're not paying

390
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,280
attention to the hardware.
They're not paying attention to

391
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,800
that.
And I was kind of surprised.

392
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,760
And then he said OK, and it kind
of went away.

393
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:53,000
And then later on I got a call
that the tour was on and he

394
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:59,160
wanted me to do the tour.
And I was surprised because I

395
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,840
thought because he was cutting
things, he was getting rid of a

396
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,080
bunch of stuff.
Like he was like, he'd asked me

397
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,200
what this thing was and I'd tell
him what it was.

398
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,040
He would say, well, how many
people does it take to build it?

399
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,360
And I'd tell him and he goes,
OK, how how many?

400
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,400
What do you think?
How many trucks is all lesson?

401
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,560
So I would tell him, right, what
I thought if he cut certain

402
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,040
things with this is what this
would end up being.

403
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,160
And I thought he was no, because
he was getting rid of a bunch of

404
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,520
things.
Yeah, you were a goner.

405
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,560
I thought I was the one that he
was going to get rid of.

406
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,320
Yeah, bring on his, bring his
own people in.

407
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,080
And then I got the call and he
said he wanted me to do it.

408
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,080
And then?
That was a nice surprise.

409
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:43,080
That was a very nice surprise
and that was probably probably

410
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,440
the biggest impact of my life.
Really.

411
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,640
That was what probably there's
there's three people who really

412
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,120
affected my life, my grandmother
who got me my first job, who got

413
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:02,520
me that first job I got got me
to the theater and.

414
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,720
Then what was that first job?
She got, she introduced me.

415
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,160
I, I kind of skipped that part.
I'm sorry.

416
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,560
So my, my, my grandmother, this
is she, we, my family is

417
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,360
originally from Oklahoma and
they move my grade from Oklahoma

418
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:25,560
to California in the 50s and my
grandmother and became a

419
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,720
domestic worker.
So she was a nanny and a

420
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,840
housekeeper and she worked for
different families in Southern

421
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,880
California.
I I guess she was very good at

422
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,080
it.
And there was a comedy writer

423
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,680
back in the late 50s, early 60s
who had the first, I think he

424
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,840
was like 1,000,000 selling
comedy album.

425
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,120
It went, you know, and he that's
this, right?

426
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:56,720
He, he became after that he
became the Hollywood writer for

427
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,040
writing comedy.
His, his name is Stan Freeburg.

428
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,240
And, and so my grandmother was
working for Stan Freeburg in

429
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,120
his, in his home in Beverly
Hills.

430
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:12,080
She was the housekeeper and a
nanny for the family.

431
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,880
Wow.
And she did that for for, you

432
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,800
know, As for a number of years.
And then her, their daughter,

433
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,800
Donna Freiberg, she was the, you
know, the nanny and help raise

434
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,800
Donna.
And so once my grandmother

435
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,800
retired from that, Donna stayed
in contact with my grandmother.

436
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,680
Oh, that's nice.
So she every holiday or my

437
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,000
grandmother's birthday, Donna
would all call.

438
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,560
Always call.
So to make a Long story short, I

439
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,640
hadn't.
Donna must be about 6 years

440
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,520
older than me and I probably
hadn't seen or heard from Donna

441
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,080
and probably like maybe 10
years, 10 more, 10 more years.

442
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,000
And then one day I went over my
grandmother's house and she said

443
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:11,040
that she has spoken to Donna and
she told Donna that I was and,

444
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,280
and wanted to be a recording
engineer or something like that.

445
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,840
And then Donna said, oh, that's
what my husband does.

446
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,120
And so my grandmother said, so
she said you need to call Donna

447
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,200
and cuz she's cuz her husband
does what you do and maybe she

448
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,280
can, they can help you.
And of course, I didn't think my

449
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,080
grandmother knew what she was
talking about.

450
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,600
I was like, yeah, most black
people even back then didn't

451
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,200
understand what I want to do a
lot, understand what I was

452
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,280
trying to achieve.
So I had him.

453
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,360
I was like, what is this?
This is old lady.

454
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:46,640
She doesn't know what I'm
talking about.

455
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,320
I didn't think, I didn't pay any
attention to her.

456
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:52,360
That's so funny.
So week goes by, I I come back

457
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,400
over my grandmother's house and
she goes, hey, hey, did you did

458
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,400
you call Donna?
I was like, no, no, Mama, I

459
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,760
didn't, I didn't call Donna.
Boy, you better come in here.

460
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,360
I'm going to call her right now.
You're going to talk to her on

461
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:02,920
the phone.
And I was like, that's that's

462
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,040
not necessarily Mama.
Yes, this is what you're going

463
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,880
to do.
So she calls her, I speak to

464
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Donna.
We're talking on the phone.

465
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,520
She goes, OK, That's what my
husband does.

466
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,760
You need to you will I'm a hook
you up with him.

467
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,640
You're going to call and you
guys get together.

468
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,600
So I call.
I talked to him, we talk, he

469
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,960
says OK, meet me at at Dr.
studios.

470
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,520
So I go OK, and so he gives me
the address and I sucked.

471
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,280
And as I'm going that way, I
start to realize that I have

472
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,920
been kind of like driving past
this area when I was going to

473
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,320
recording school.
It was just it's maybe about

474
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,920
only about a mile away from.
Where?

475
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,320
Oh wow.
Where Dr. feels worse.

476
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,040
So I pulled into Dr. Studios and
then it says Dr. Studios, Dr.

477
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,080
Dance Studios, and I'm like,
this is not what I'm looking

478
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,400
for.
I'm not looking to work for a

479
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,520
dance studio.
I go in.

480
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,480
But I do need a gig.
I don't think I need it that bad

481
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,760
unless, you know.
So I go in, I asked for for this

482
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,520
guy, his name was Todd Fisher.
And he goes, he's I'm here to

483
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,880
meet Todd Fisher.
And they go, OK, they call for

484
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,240
him.
He comes out and he kind of he,

485
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,440
you know, we greet and then he
kind of walking me around

486
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,720
showing me the studio and I'm
not, you know, I'm not that

487
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,480
interested because it's not what
I'm really thinking about.

488
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,280
It's like the, the, the complex
had like 4 big dance room, dance

489
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,800
studio rooms and then it had two
smaller dance studios.

490
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:37,240
And then it had a, and later on
we finally got in the back and

491
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,760
it had a smaller room, which was
a recording engineering of

492
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,800
recording room, recording
studio.

493
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,400
And but it did like voice over
work for radio and TV.

494
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,240
And I was like, OK, now this,
I'm going, OK, this is going to

495
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,600
get a little bit better.
And then we, he takes me

496
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,960
outside, he's showing me around
and he takes me over to this, to

497
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,280
this truck like a 24 or 26 foot
box truck.

498
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,520
And he he opens it up and it's a
mobile recording studio.

499
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,160
Oh.
OK, this guy is real, all right?

500
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,200
OK, So yeah, we kind of get it
off.

501
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,120
He asked me, you know, he had a
couple gigs coming up and did I

502
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,360
want to help him?
And it was like more of a live

503
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,160
audio thing he wanted me to help
him with.

504
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,600
And so that's what I did.
And then I started doing some

505
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,320
work with him.
I, at the same time I was, I was

506
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,800
also, I'm sorry, I, I was also
working at a grocery store, this

507
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,920
place called ABC Marcus August.
Even when I was, even when I was

508
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,240
working at the studio, I was
also working at the grocery.

509
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,280
When I was working at the
theater, I was also working at

510
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,640
the grocery store.
And so I was, I started working

511
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,400
for Todd, doing these little
shows and little things with

512
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,280
him.
And then one day he asked me at

513
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,640
at the Dr. studios.
He said that there was a church

514
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,480
in there, that they had rented
space there.

515
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,400
And on Thursdays and Thursdays
and Sundays, they had church

516
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,520
services.
And they were looking for a

517
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,720
sound guy.
And he asked me did I want to do

518
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,400
it?
And I said, yeah, yeah, because

519
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,360
all I wanted to do was mix.
I was like, I'll get to mix.

520
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Yeah.
He goes, Yep, yes, what we'll

521
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,720
do.
So that's why I started doing

522
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,600
the church started in the small,
one of the small studio dance

523
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,640
studios in there.
And then it grew to when it

524
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,800
ended up being in one of the
bigger studios.

525
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,240
And then it grew so big that we
kind of had two studios and we

526
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,800
would put speakers in that
service would be in one studio

527
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,240
and it would be filled and then
we put speakers in another

528
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,440
studio, so.
Like a satellite, Yeah.

529
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,360
Yeah, it was a satellite.
And so we did that.

530
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,920
And then this church just got
too big.

531
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,560
And then they were looking for
some place to go to have

532
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,320
services.
And so they found this theater

533
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,960
in Beverly Hills that was being
renovated.

534
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,880
And then the the theater rent
space to them on on Thursdays

535
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,120
and Sundays, I believe.
Yeah.

536
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,160
And so we did church move there
and I went there to do the sound

537
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,000
for the church.
And after a while I was doing

538
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,560
stuff there.
And then one day the technical

539
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,440
director asked me, what did I
want to do?

540
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,240
What was my what was my goals?
I said, oh, I want to become a

541
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,280
recording engineer.
He goes, oh, OK.

542
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,040
And then he's, he goes, OK, when
he says, I want to talk to you

543
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,960
about some stuff.
I said OK.

544
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,400
And then I had we had a, a
concert that we're putting on

545
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,480
and it was going to be for this
TV network, Christian TV network

546
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,000
cost.
I think it's called TBN.

547
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,160
And we also And so I have been
there all day, setting

548
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,680
everything up, mixing for this
TV show and doing all that

549
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,640
stuff.
And then we were, I was packing

550
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,240
up and I was trying to brush, I
was rushing.

551
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,800
And so the technical director
guy came over to me and asked me

552
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,440
why was I in a hurry?
I said I had to go to my job.

553
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,680
At the grocery store.
Yeah, he goes.

554
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,160
What do you other job?
You've been here all day.

555
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,600
I got well, I do this for I do
this for free, but I have a real

556
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,640
job and I got to get to work.
I got to get there.

557
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,640
Oh, you weren't being paid for
this gig?

558
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,440
For the church, for.
The church.

559
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,240
Wow.
No, no, no, I just, I just love

560
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,520
sound and I love doing what I
was doing.

561
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:28,200
And so he goes, OK, and then the
next, let's say that that was

562
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,480
like on a Thursday.
So that that next Sunday I'm at

563
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,880
the church setting up the sound
and he came over in the ass

564
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,040
started talking to me about so
my goals and all that.

565
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,720
I kind of told him what I was
doing.

566
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,680
He said, well, would you ever
consider working here?

567
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,160
And I was like, no, I'm young.
I wasn't quite talking.

568
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,720
What he was talking to me was
like, I was like, we didn't do

569
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,880
what he goes well, do sound.
I said, Oh, and he said, you

570
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,040
know, eventually we're going to
open because they were just

571
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,080
renovating the theater.
So it had it was months of

572
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,520
renovating, getting this theater
up to up to up to code and up to

573
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,800
specs, be doing shows.
And he said, once we once we do

574
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,360
that, I'm going to need a sound
guy.

575
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,760
And would you be my house sound
engineer?

576
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,400
So that's what that's kind of,
that's how I started.

577
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,440
Working.
That's wild.

578
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:22,440
You know, isn't it amazing
where, like, I always teach my

579
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,520
son that.
I always teach my employees

580
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,199
that, you know, if you sit up at
a bar and you order a drink or

581
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,280
some food or something, talk to
the guy next to you, you know,

582
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,920
what do you do?
You know, and you just never

583
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,679
know where those ideas or leads
or opportunities are going to

584
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,199
come from for your next gig, you
know, or your next opportunity

585
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:47,000
or whatever it is, you know?
And so who knew it had come from

586
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,159
your grandmother, right?
Yeah.

587
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,719
Yeah, she my grandmother.
That's why I'm here now.

588
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,639
My grandmother.
Your career start.

589
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,159
Got me.
Yeah, that's the whole that's

590
00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:59,160
that was my jump off point.
It sounds like though you were

591
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,040
really driven, you were going to
get there anyway, but she just

592
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,360
gave you that.
She gave you the opportunity,

593
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,240
the doorway in or whatever.
For me, and it was next after

594
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,560
that and it's just.
She's amazing.

595
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,560
You know, it's up to you.
You can be whatever you want to

596
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,120
be.
She didn't feel that in me.

597
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,720
If you work hard and believe in
yourself and you're doing for,

598
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,000
things will happen.
And it I mean it did.

599
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,360
Strong, strong women in your
life can certainly, you know,

600
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,440
really give you a sort of a path
to follow, that's for sure.

601
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,160
My mom was always like that.
But I was going to ask you.

602
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,760
So, you know, you keep saying,
like I was explaining to people,

603
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,360
this is what I want to do.
What do you want to do?

604
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,560
I just want to do sound.
I just want to be a recording.

605
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,120
Where'd that come from?
That came from I.

606
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,880
Again, it was because I love
music.

607
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:52,240
I love music and I love being
around musicians because I find

608
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:57,800
it miraculous that something,
that other thing that's out

609
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:04,120
there can come into some bun and
they can think up something and

610
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,320
that can come through them and
then come through their hands or

611
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,680
out of their mouth and they can
play this instrument.

612
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,040
I'm that I'm I'm still.
But you never wanted to be a

613
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,480
musician.
You just wanted to.

614
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,440
That was I will, I wanted to be
a player and I played beats and

615
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:28,360
I, you know, I, I early, I knew
early on that I wasn't going to

616
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,520
be the musician that I wanted to
be.

617
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,360
Yeah.
So.

618
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,960
Me too.
Yeah, that's why the guitars are

619
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,240
on the wall and.
I'm on the steer.

620
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:39,200
Yeah, yeah, I just, I, I pivoted
and went in a different

621
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:44,440
direction and I guess I'm still
enthralled by that and.

622
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,120
So when when you were, you know,
you loved music and you loved

623
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,600
music going through people and
all that stuff, but what made

624
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:56,040
you really decide that sound and
being a sound engineer was how

625
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,200
you wanted to sort of, you know,
do that as.

626
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:05,320
You know, you know, back in the
day, albums came out and in the

627
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,480
back of the album would have be
all the liner notes.

628
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,400
And then liner notes would tell
you all no, I would tell you all

629
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,960
the in all the musicians that
played, everybody that was a

630
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,960
part of making that record.
And I would always see on there

631
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,560
said recording engineer or
producer.

632
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:20,920
And I was like, well, what is
that?

633
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,160
I kept trying to figure out, but
that wasn't and then I finally

634
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,920
realized, oh, that's who records
and makes the record.

635
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,480
Else it just clicked for you.
Yeah, it just clicked and

636
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,320
that's.
That's cool.

637
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,440
That's what told me just to do
and the thing was just trying to

638
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,880
figure out how do you do that.
Yeah.

639
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,240
Do you, how do you become that?
And I've remember this is back

640
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:46,640
in the day where the LA Times
weekend paper would come out and

641
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,960
it had us a section in the paper
called a calendar.

642
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,720
And a calendar section talked
about mostly about entertainment

643
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,880
in LA, all the different
concerts and all the different

644
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,160
things that were going on in LA
for that week.

645
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,360
And one day I I'm going through
it.

646
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,440
And then I saw an advertisement
saying Sound Master school of

647
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,160
recording.
And I was like, oh, this is what

648
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,560
I want to do.
This is.

649
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,600
It called out to you, Yeah.
And.

650
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,040
Then like I said, that one thing
led to another and me doing that

651
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,720
and getting out and my mom
introducing, introducing me to

652
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,880
get me back into into that's.
So cool.

653
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,520
Yeah, working for Donna's
husband Todd Fisher.

654
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:38,680
Oh, I left out so Dr. studios it
Dr. standing for it was initials

655
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,560
for Debbie Reynolds and Debbie
Reynolds was this 40s and 50s.

656
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,760
Yeah, I know who she is, of
course.

657
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,840
Or was.
Dancer, actress.

658
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,440
And then, you know, she married
this man named Todd Fisher, who

659
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,400
was like a crooner back then.
And so they had two kids.

660
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,120
They had Todd Fisher and Carrie
Fisher, so.

661
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,880
Oh wow.
Just Layla from Star Wars.

662
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,800
Of course, yeah.
That's and that's who Todd

663
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,680
Fisher was, and that's who I.
Oh wow.

664
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,680
Or who got me into the?
Working so his mom was Demi

665
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,240
Debbie Reynolds and.
His mom was Debbie Reynolds and

666
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,680
your father was.
Todd was the guy who gave you

667
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,840
your career.
Yeah, who Donna got.

668
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,120
Wild.
No one thing led to another and

669
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,680
then led me to the theater,
which led me to Marty, which led

670
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:39,680
me to the the the manager for
for Janet, who originally hit

671
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,320
this other manager.
He did Rhythm Nation for Janet

672
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,200
and then he then that tour ended
and then he he left Janet and

673
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,400
then another manager took over
and that manager and that 94

674
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:59,840
that 94 tour was managing Janet.
Then that tour ended the the

675
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,920
original manager came back and
that was the guy that I was

676
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,560
talking to.
When that's who brought you back

677
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,480
in.
Master person who brought me in

678
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:16,160
and that's the person who
really, really changed my life

679
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,840
and that managers.
His name is Roger Davies.

680
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,360
For 50 years, ETC has made a
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681
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,280
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682
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683
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684
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710
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,440
Right.
Davies managed, he managed

711
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:30,400
Janet, he managed Tina Turner,
who's another person who really

712
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,480
changed my life.
So the two of the biggest people

713
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,360
who've changed my life with
Rodger Davies and Tina Turner,

714
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,360
that.
How did they change your life

715
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,520
though?
Just by giving you

716
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,720
opportunities.
It gave me opportunities.

717
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:49,280
They saw in me that things that
other people didn't see, and you

718
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:56,240
have to understand back in the
80s, early 90s were very, very

719
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,600
few people of color in a Turing
industry.

720
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,480
Yeah, none own person,
especially in the pop rock.

721
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,040
There's still not that many.
There's still not that many,

722
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,000
remarkably, but it's way, way
more.

723
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,640
Way more now a lot of times when
I was on tour because I I was,

724
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,960
but most of the time I was, I
was no stage manager and most of

725
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,840
the time the only other people
of color were the people that

726
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,760
were on stage were the.
Banters.

727
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,680
So, Roger.
It's crazy.

728
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,240
I mean, that's.
Totally changed my life.

729
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,880
It seems so recent when you
think of the 80s or whatever,

730
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,600
but it literally is 40 years
ago.

731
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,840
Lots changed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots.

732
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,160
Changed since then.
Yeah, they say Arc of justice is

733
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,600
why, but it usually comes around
to, to to better things.

734
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,000
So yeah, happened.
I started, I started working for

735
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,200
Rodger.
I did.

736
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:55,400
I did the Janet tour that led to
Tina and then I started working

737
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,840
for them.
Then I did even before that I

738
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,040
did on the tours, I did Ozzy
Osbourne.

739
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,320
I did a bunch of different other
smaller tours.

740
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,360
Then I then I started working
for doing more things for for

741
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,000
Rodger.
So I said Janet, Tina, Cher,

742
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:22,720
Charday, Pink, you know, this
thing's just kind of kind of

743
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:24,240
rolling, that is.
Wild.

744
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,960
That is wild.
So, you know, but when you say

745
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,200
Ozzy it, it kind of makes me
laugh because, you know, a guy

746
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,520
growing up on jazz and R&B and,
you know, suddenly you're out

747
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,680
with Ozzy, who's as crazy as
they come.

748
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,480
And pretty heavy music, too.
That had to be a bit of a

749
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,440
culture shock.
Yeah, but I, but I hadn't, I

750
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,960
was, I kind of had an eclectic
taste.

751
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:54,280
So I listened to a wide variety
of different music, especially

752
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,920
after I started touring because
I started being around other

753
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,120
people and hearing their taste
in music.

754
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,400
And, and so.
And even if you're touring, you

755
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,040
don't necessarily have to like
the music.

756
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,240
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.

757
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,600
Have any interested at all?
You're just trying to do your

758
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,280
job to build as a as a
production.

759
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,400
I mean, as a stage manager back
then, my job is to get the show

760
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,640
in the building to deal with all
the hands, to make sure each

761
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,880
department gets what they need
and to help get the show in.

762
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,480
And so that's kind of like that
became my Forte.

763
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,560
And.
I tried to be My goal was to be

764
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,400
the one of the best stage.
I want to be the best, one of

765
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,640
the best stage managers.
Yeah.

766
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,320
So that's what I tried to do.
Was that just how you were like

767
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:44,760
you?
You were like, if I'm going to

768
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,040
do this thing, I'm going to do
it to the best of my ability?

769
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,640
Is was that your attitude?
That was my yes, whatever.

770
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,960
That's obviously what some of
these people saw in you too,

771
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,800
like Marty and Roger, and they
saw that.

772
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,320
They saw you as a guy who had
hustle and a guy who always said

773
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,080
yes and always got things done.
Yeah, you're.

774
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,480
Reliable.
Yeah, that was my thing, is to

775
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,240
try to make people see that I
was going to do my best at

776
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,960
whatever it was.
And that's what my grandmother

777
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,840
told me.
She said whatever you do, be

778
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,200
your best at it.
Let's say especially if this is

779
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,760
something that you're going to
choose to do for your life, you

780
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,120
want to make sure that.
Such a great lesson.

781
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:28,400
Is a representation of you and
you don't want to like I don't

782
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,320
want to, you kind of you want to
when everything is all said and

783
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,760
done, you want to say I put my
all in it.

784
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,480
Yeah.
Yes, you could be a mailman.

785
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,880
You could be.
You know, it's so funny you say

786
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,080
that, Malcolm, because my, my
son, he's 21 now, but when he

787
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:48,520
was, I don't know, 8 years old
or something, when I would drive

788
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,320
from the house to my office,
because at the time I went into

789
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:53,760
an office, I didn't work from
home.

790
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,440
And when I would drive from the
house to my office, I live in

791
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,960
Wellington, FL.
And in Wellington, FL, there's

792
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,840
this guy who works for the city,
the village, and he rides around

793
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,320
in a golf cart and he's got one
of those things and he stabs

794
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,040
garbage and picks it up and puts
it in the garbage can behind.

795
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,040
But the thing that makes him
unique is he's always smiling.

796
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,640
And he waves at every single car
that goes by.

797
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,960
And I'm talking waves
passionately.

798
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,120
Like what are you doing today?
You know, every single car,

799
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,120
every single day, rain or shine,
doesn't matter.

800
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,320
He waves at every single car to
a point where he's become famous

801
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:39,040
for it and I used to show him to
my because I'd open my windows

802
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,920
or take the roof off my car and
just.

803
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:43,640
Hey, how are you?
Today, you know, and he'd be so

804
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,440
happy because I'm waving back at
him, right?

805
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,880
I understand.
And I told my son, I don't care

806
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,440
if you're picking up garbage or
you're on stage or you're

807
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,720
driving a race car or whatever
you're doing in life, do it with

808
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:59,680
a smile on your face and do it
to the best of your ability.

809
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,920
And you're going to, you're
going to be just fine, kid.

810
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,920
And I believe in that so much.
Malcolm, I love, I love that

811
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,200
your grandmother taught you
that.

812
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,600
The other the other thing I read
in your notes though was

813
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,160
something about earth, wind and
fire that they had a an impact

814
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,920
on you somehow early on.
Yes, that was the very first

815
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,360
concert I went to.
I was at the, at the at the LA

816
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,280
Forum.
I must have been about 10 years

817
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,080
old.
Wow.

818
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,840
You know, 11, That was the very
first show and that's I, I was

819
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,200
blown away by that.
I remember going in and walking

820
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,720
into the form and, and, and
seeing this show and I was just

821
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:45,120
like mesmerized.
And that, I think, was the thing

822
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,760
that really got me into music.
That was the spark, yeah.

823
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,120
About oh, music it's a the whole
because earth, wind and fire.

824
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,080
They they it was it was it was
jazz, it was pop.

825
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,440
It had rock.
It had a little bit.

826
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,000
Of and they were so visual too.
And visual.

827
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,880
Yeah, it was visual.
They were.

828
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,320
His name Vernon or something?
The bass player who does.

829
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,560
That yeah, yeah.
Does that whole little thing all

830
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,920
the time, you know?
Yeah, Vernon White.

831
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:12,720
Vernon.
Yeah.

832
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:13,680
That's it.
Yeah.

833
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,400
Well, Maurice White was the was
the leader.

834
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,720
Yeah.
Of course, yeah.

835
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,680
They had all these magic
elements and all this theatrical

836
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,000
stuff.
So they took the theatrical and

837
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,360
the music and kind of put it
together and I was just, I was

838
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,320
blown away by it.
Well, and they were incredible

839
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,000
musicians too.
Great singers, great everything.

840
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,360
I really.
Full package.

841
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,720
That was the main thing I really
got is just the musicianship and

842
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:41,440
and the way they recorded their
records.

843
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,160
You could, you could hear an
Earth, Wind and Fire record and

844
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,560
in this, the clarity of all the
instruments and and everything

845
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:51,680
and just the way it sounded was
a lot.

846
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,600
It was different than a lot of
other records.

847
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,880
Yeah.
You know what kind of led me to

848
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,280
exploring more about music and
like.

849
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,880
Yeah.
The liner notes, I think it's

850
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,600
probably a Earth Wind Fire
record where I started really

851
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,160
looking at stuff.
Yeah.

852
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:12,680
Did your grandma take you to
that concert?

853
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:13,840
No, no.
My mom.

854
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,800
My mom, you know, bought me
tickets for that and, and, and,

855
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,400
and, and I was amazed.
I can't even imagine how she

856
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,120
even did that because we, I'm,
I'm a support kid from South

857
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,880
Central Lai, literally only live
about 2 1/2 miles from the

858
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,920
forum.
And like I said, my very first

859
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:40,360
show was at the forum.
And I remember years later, no,

860
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,040
I was working for Paula Abdul,
who, no, she was started out as

861
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:50,120
a Laker girl and eventually
Paula played the forum and I'm

862
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,200
at the forum with Paula Abdul.
That's.

863
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,400
So crazy.
Doing, you know.

864
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:57,800
I had to make you feel pretty
good.

865
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,040
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you see.
Did your grandma live long

866
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,120
enough to see you get into the
career that you wanted?

867
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:10,920
No, she did as I as the theater,
but at that point she was, she

868
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,000
had, she had a bunch of health
issues and then unfortunately

869
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:21,640
she passed away.
But I know, I know, she's always

870
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,800
there.
Yeah, well, plus she got to see

871
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,800
you were on your way.
She probably felt real good that

872
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,960
you were on your way to doing
what you wanted to be doing.

873
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,280
So at what point did Turing
switch from?

874
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,960
This is a weird gig that I don't
want any part of.

875
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,520
To to being a job.
It became 1st and then at some

876
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,200
point I'm guessing that it
turned into more of a passion

877
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,960
where it was like wow I really
do love what I'm doing now.

878
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,880
When did that happen?
I was on this.

879
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:59,480
It happened kind of.
I was on a tour and I was stage

880
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,800
manager for this one tour and
that and that happened to be an

881
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,720
artist, Milli Finili.
So I did Milli.

882
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,880
Oh boy.
Yeah, artist.

883
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,280
I don't know if that's the
correct word.

884
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know an artist.

885
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:15,560
And I did that tour, and the
production manager for that tour

886
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:21,760
asked me one day.
He kind of came out and asked

887
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,240
me, you know, how everything was
going.

888
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:24,840
And I said, oh, yes, we're going
OK.

889
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:26,040
Yeah, I think they're going
good.

890
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,080
He goes, see.
I see.

891
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,120
He goes.
Do you So what, what's your

892
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,960
plans?
I go, I go, what do you say?

893
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,520
What do you what do you, what do
you mean?

894
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,800
Because what's your plans on
your career now?

895
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,640
He goes, Oh, and at that point I
was still trying to, I still

896
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,360
wanted to get into the to.
You couldn't get that out of

897
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,760
your system.
Well, I still wanted to do sound

898
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,720
and he was like and he said,
well, I just want to know.

899
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:51,560
This is my suggestion.
If you want a a lasting career

900
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,760
and you want to make no find
money, more money and make it

901
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,600
sooner, you should go into
production.

902
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,520
And I was like, you know, I was
young.

903
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,160
I was like, yeah, I don't want
to, don't want to do this for a

904
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,280
living.
And he said, oh, you just know,

905
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,520
just think about it.
And so I did that to her.

906
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,720
And then I know as you do, you
start to start to realize what

907
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:15,920
you're going to do.
And then eventually I realized

908
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,720
that probably the sound thing
wasn't going to work for me.

909
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:23,440
And so I decided, OK, I'm, I'm
going to be a, I'm going to be a

910
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,080
stage manager and I'm going to,
I'm going to make that my art

911
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,960
because I could, I consider
mixing an art form like a

912
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,920
musician.
And I say, OK, I'm going to make

913
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,840
being a stage manager my art
form.

914
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,920
I'm going to refine this to the
best of my ability.

915
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,720
So in a sense, it was just
acceptance on your part, like

916
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,440
finally accepting that, hey, I'm
pretty good at this.

917
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,560
People are starting to take
notice.

918
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,080
I'm starting.
My paychecks are probably

919
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,040
growing a little bigger.
You know, this really is a

920
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,760
career now.
And I think I just need to

921
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,240
accept that this is my calling.
You know, that's what it was.

922
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:04,440
That's cool.
That's cool.

923
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,080
And it probably felt so much
better after that, you know.

924
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:07,640
Oh.
Yes.

925
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:13,160
And I and I, an asshole also you
sometimes you don't know, I kind

926
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,760
of say with your blessings until
afterwards, you start to

927
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,720
realize, oh, this is what the
gift is.

928
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:21,440
You.
Yeah.

929
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,760
You're still in a music
business.

930
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,440
You're still around musicians,
but you're going to do it in a

931
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,680
different way.
And so I that's cool.

932
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,320
Yeah.
And I, and then I also, it was

933
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,880
like this one musician that I
had met, there was a bunch of

934
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,200
musicians that met while working
for George Howard.

935
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,880
And I was this one musician,
this drummer named Rayford

936
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:50,200
Griffin.
And he was an amazing musician.

937
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,880
Amazing.
And I said, you know, I'm going

938
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,920
to be the best stage manager.
I want to be as good a stage

939
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,640
manager as Rayford Griffin, as a
drummer.

940
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,000
That's cool.
And that was my goal.

941
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,000
Yeah.
Did you ever get to go up and

942
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,800
play bass for a sound check or
anything?

943
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:16,200
Oh God, I didn't know.
I knew I didn't because I was

944
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,400
around really good musicians.
So no, I wasn't going to go play

945
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:20,560
bass and fight.
He's got.

946
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,440
Oh really?
You never, never had the desire

947
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,600
to stand on a stage big.
And even if you're just playing

948
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,120
some silly boring song where
you're just going dunk, dunk,

949
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,160
dunk, dunk, dunk.
No, no, I'll, I'll, like I said,

950
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,560
I, I, I, I'll, I'll push the
bass that's in a case onto the

951
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,120
stage and that's about it.
But I'm not.

952
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:43,120
Oh, wow.
Get up on stage and play.

953
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,120
No, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When did you switch over into

954
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,920
production management?
I did.

955
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,600
I switched over to production
management thinking like in

956
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:59,480
2000, Rodger Davies ask me where
we were on a tour.

957
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,480
The tour ended and as you do,
I'm like loading out when he he

958
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,720
kind of came over to me and
asked, told me thank you and

959
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,360
asked me what was I going to go
do next?

960
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,040
And I told him I didn't really
know.

961
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:18,920
He goes well, he goes to he goes
Janet's going back out.

962
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,240
And would you consider being the
would you consider being my

963
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:26,400
production manager for it?
And I was like bone away.

964
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:31,920
And then I'll say, yeah, but I,
I go and I might as a, as a

965
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:37,520
stage manager, especially back
in a day, tour managers ran

966
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,040
everything.
They, they, they hired all the

967
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,360
vendors and they hired all the
crew.

968
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,520
But the thing was touring,
especially as the bigger tours,

969
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,840
though, no, the tour manager
because he's dealing with the

970
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,360
artists.
Artists, yeah.

971
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,760
Moving the artist from point A
to point B and dealing with all

972
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,720
that.
So a lot of times, you know, the

973
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:05,880
tour manager would come in,
they'd walk into the building

974
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,160
around two or three O clock in
the afternoon.

975
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,400
And while you've been, you know,
loading the show in so that they

976
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,560
come in based off of when you
want the artist to be in the

977
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,160
building so that they can do
their sound check and rehearsals

978
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:24,960
and and then we do the show.
And so as so as you're as a

979
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,320
stage manager, you can't, you
don't hire anybody.

980
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,360
You just have, you're just given
the crew that you're given.

981
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:37,640
And as a stage manager, a lot of
times you're dealing with all

982
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,200
the different personalities on,
on a crew.

983
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,360
You're dealing with some people
who are very helpful.

984
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,240
Some some crew members aren't
very helpful, but you do

985
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,360
anything about it because you
didn't hire them.

986
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,120
You just have to find your best
way of to get around certain

987
00:57:54,120 --> 00:58:01,880
issues that you may have.
So my thought was how do we

988
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:03,320
asked me that?
I asked him.

989
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,240
I said, well, if I hire, if I
become a production manager, do

990
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,320
I get to hire the crew?
And he said yes.

991
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,160
And do I get to fire the crew?
And he said yes.

992
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,800
And I said, do I get to hire the
vendors?

993
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,680
He said yes, long as it fits the
budget, I'll say OK.

994
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,240
And then that's what that's kind
of how it started.

995
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:28,960
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.

996
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,360
Because I, after being a stage
manager and after being on tours

997
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,080
for that number of years,
because by that time I'd been

998
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:41,960
touring probably about 10 years
doing mainly doing, being a

999
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:49,280
stage manager, I realized the,
the, the pluses and minuses of,

1000
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,600
of that.
And like I said, I start to I,

1001
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:58,080
you know, I understood where you
can have one bad person on a

1002
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,680
crew.
It could be, you know, it could

1003
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,760
be 100 people on a crew and you
have one bad person.

1004
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,480
That one bad person can turn.
It can be a cancer.

1005
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,240
Yeah, part. 2.
Attitude will just start to

1006
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,000
permeate throughout the whole
crew.

1007
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:20,360
So I tell everybody, and I still
believe this, the only reason I

1008
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,840
became a production manager, so
that I can hire and fire people.

1009
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,480
I only want good people around
me.

1010
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,080
To create the right chemistry
and stuff, yeah.

1011
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:35,200
Chemistry I'll take, I'll take
people who I'll take someone who

1012
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,160
doesn't really know, could not
be necessarily the best person

1013
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:43,080
at that gig, but because they
have a good work ethic and

1014
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:47,240
they're willing to learn.
I can teach you to do your gig,

1015
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,480
but I can't teach you to be a
good human being.

1016
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,320
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, so.

1017
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,440
True my thing as far as hiring
crew.

1018
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,920
I agree with you by the way and
I try to do the same but I fail

1019
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:03,360
so often I try to hire for
character.

1020
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:08,640
And train skills, but that
doesn't always work.

1021
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,960
I've failed many times at that.
And I've done the same thing.

1022
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:19,760
Some people, you may see someone
I've hired, people that I've

1023
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,760
used in different cities, they
were local crew members and they

1024
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,600
were really good at what they
were doing, but it didn't

1025
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,800
translate to touring because
ring is a different thing.

1026
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,520
It's a different animal.
Well, and some people too, like

1027
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,240
especially not as bad now, but
back in certainly the 80s and

1028
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,480
90s and still a little bit
today.

1029
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,760
But you know, the lifestyle that
you get into when you're on the

1030
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,720
road and you get into the drugs
and the partying and the girls

1031
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,480
and the alcohol and whatever
else all goes with that.

1032
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,560
Some people don't handle it
quite as well as others and they

1033
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,080
become a real problem, you know?
Like a lot of times on tour,

1034
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,520
it's not the, it's not the work
that's the problem.

1035
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:03,920
It's it's when you're not.
Working.

1036
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:08,960
It's the downtime, yeah.
Wrong time where people can fall

1037
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,480
into the pitfalls of what's
there.

1038
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,280
Yeah, what you think is trouble
so.

1039
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,720
Yeah, yeah.
So you, you know, I, I had Marty

1040
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,040
on this podcast and I asked him
the same question, you know,

1041
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:27,440
about working with really some
of the most iconic, probably the

1042
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,360
most iconic Divas in the history
of, of this business, you know,

1043
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,640
and I think he also doesn't need
to bet as well.

1044
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,520
And yeah, I did Madonna as well,
you know.

1045
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,400
Yep, Yep, Yep.
Actually the both of us have.

1046
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:48,640
I know that's kind of I got my
claim to fame was working for

1047
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,240
mostly female acts.
Being the diva master.

1048
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So how, how is that harder?

1049
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,600
How much harder is it?
Is it more demanding when you're

1050
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:03,480
working for not only a not only
a female artist, but a, a female

1051
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,560
superstar, you know, a Beyoncé,
a Janet Jackson at the time, a

1052
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,480
Madonna?
Is it Madonna is it?

1053
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,680
I know Madonna was tough.
I remember I was standing one

1054
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,760
time in the Forum with Peter
Morse.

1055
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,200
When friend of mine.
Oh yes.

1056
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:25,800
Yeah, When Madonna was, it was
the Drowned tour.

1057
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,520
I remember because I had lights
on it.

1058
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,160
I was a lighting vendor at the
time.

1059
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,800
And I'm standing talking with
Peter and Madonna comes in with

1060
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,880
her daughter and with Guy
Ritchie into the Forum.

1061
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,760
They were there for rehearsals
and she looked at the set and

1062
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:46,280
she just started cursing and
yelling and throwing an absolute

1063
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:51,080
fit over that set.
She hated it and let everyone

1064
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,240
know who was there that she
hated it and how much she hated

1065
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:59,960
it and how much she had spent on
it and that this has to go now.

1066
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:04,160
And there's no way I'm standing
in front of that monstrosity and

1067
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,880
and it needs to change.
I don't care.

1068
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:08,520
You need to get rid of this
thing.

1069
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,920
And so they put a coat of paint
on it.

1070
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,720
And I think she came in two days
later, and I love it.

1071
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,800
See, I told you you needed a
different set.

1072
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:18,280
Typical, right?
That's one.

1073
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:20,360
Interesting.
Yeah.

1074
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,640
I just tell people friends or
their other friends work for

1075
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,640
Madonna.
Yeah, I've heard that one

1076
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,720
before.
I think it was a monitor

1077
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,160
engineer or something who told
me that, Yeah.

1078
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,000
She's a taskmaster, so.
Yeah, but is it a lot harder

1079
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,480
when you're when you're working
for female superstars than it is

1080
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,840
for male superstars?
No, no, I used to think that.

1081
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,080
I, I really, I used to think
that because I had been doing a

1082
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:53,480
lot of female acts and then I
remember I got a call, I had

1083
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:58,360
done a, a share tour.
We had been out for like 3

1084
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:03,720
years, a three-year tour.
It's a really long tour, very.

1085
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:04,520
Successful.
Wow.

1086
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,560
Oh, the believe, the whole
believe thing, I don't know what

1087
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:12,280
it was, was big.
I believe was in 99.

1088
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:16,280
I did do that one this I forgot
the name of it, but we were this

1089
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,080
was both have been like her fail
where to fail wall tour.

1090
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,920
It was going to be the last.
Another one of those.

1091
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,000
Yet we ended up being for three
years and then it ended.

1092
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:31,120
And then this is I can 2005,
yeah, 2005.

1093
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:35,480
The tour ended, you know, and
I'm just kind of at home.

1094
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:42,080
And then I get a phone call from
another colleague of mine and he

1095
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,000
tells me he's got this tour
coming up that he didn't I he

1096
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,040
couldn't do and he wanted,
wanted to see if I could do it.

1097
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:52,600
And he told me it was a no, it
was his band.

1098
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:55,960
And I was like, oh man, I and it
was no, it was a famous band,

1099
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,840
rock band, bunch of guys.
I was like, and I was really

1100
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,880
looking forward to it.
And, and but then I said I'd,

1101
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:04,720
you know, I just got through a
tour and I really don't want to

1102
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:05,360
go back.
I go.

1103
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:06,600
So it's not going to be that
long.

1104
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,880
It's just a short tour, he says,
all together and maybe about no,

1105
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,600
maybe about two months at the
longest.

1106
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,120
And I was like, well, OK.
And he told me and he told me

1107
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:20,440
who was it was the Eagles.
And.

1108
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:22,800
Jesus.
Well, I was like.

1109
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,520
When I heard all these bad
stories about him, and I was

1110
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,760
like, oh, I don't know about
that.

1111
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:29,360
And he was like yeah, yeah.
And it's so hot.

1112
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,560
So.
OK, So I told him yes.

1113
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:36,760
And so I did it.
And then so that that was,

1114
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,160
that's a whole other experience
working for the Eagles.

1115
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,800
Yeah, I did 1.
I did well.

1116
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,800
I supplied lights to 1 of their
tours, the one that started in

1117
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:54,120
Moscow in like I think it was
2000 or 2001 or 99 maybe even in

1118
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,560
Moscow.
And I, I went for the rehearsals

1119
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:04,000
and, and then the first show in
Moscow and I was there with Nick

1120
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:11,320
Jackson and, and Steve Cohen was
the LD for it and Robert Roth

1121
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,840
was there and.
Oh, Oh, yes, yes it.

1122
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:18,160
Was, it was a fun crowd of
people that we had in Moscow and

1123
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:20,760
but yeah, the Eagles were
interesting at the time.

1124
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,920
They each had their own manager
and they each rode to the venue

1125
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:29,440
in their own van and, you know,
they all ate by themselves.

1126
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,680
And like 1 morning I'd sit and
have breakfast with Don Henley.

1127
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,720
And the next morning it might be
Joe Walsh or something, you

1128
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,960
know?
So, yeah.

1129
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,160
Interesting.
I it's It's so amazing that a

1130
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:48,120
band can be that good and sing
in such perfect harmony, yet

1131
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,360
unhappy, yet despise each other
so much.

1132
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,760
Like it's just.
Wild.

1133
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,280
Oh, yeah, Yeah.
Well, I guess that's just to

1134
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:01,360
show you, you know, it's just,
you know, popularity and money

1135
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,720
and fame and all of that.
Doesn't matter if you're not

1136
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,760
happy as a Yeah, you're just,
you're just not happy.

1137
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:09,800
You're just happy.
So how was how was that tour it?

1138
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,240
Was it was fine.
It was the, IT we, it was, I

1139
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,000
think it was called the
California Tour.

1140
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:22,240
We did stadiums and and open
field shows up and down

1141
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,280
California and then we did
multiple shows in Staples Center

1142
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:27,800
and.
Yeah.

1143
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,400
The Honda Center or whatever
it's called now.

1144
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,240
The appetite for that band just
never, never stops you.

1145
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,600
Know no they.
Sold out all those shows at the

1146
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:42,080
sphere too and.
Amazing, iconic, amazing,

1147
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,120
amazing group of musicians,
Yeah.

1148
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,480
Just the the material, yeah, you
know, the material lives on

1149
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,880
forever.
You know, they, they had so many

1150
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,320
hits.
And that's, I think we're

1151
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,800
because of our age, we're going
to start seeing so many of the

1152
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,880
bands that we grew up with
touring with no original

1153
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,920
members.
I think we're going to see loads

1154
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,000
of those bands touring with no
original members.

1155
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:10,880
Yes, it's pretty good, but I
guess, I guess it's great

1156
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,640
because they can that name and
the music still kind of travels.

1157
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:18,600
And I know I've now you're
starting to see a couple years

1158
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:24,399
ago I in 2022 I did, I was
doing, I was on tour with Pink

1159
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,640
and I was also, I was a
production manager for Pink and

1160
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:32,240
I was also the production
manager for Stevie Nicks and

1161
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:36,040
Stevie was doing Amphitheatre
tour.

1162
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:43,800
And what was so great was, you
know, I start to see younger

1163
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,880
audience members, if they were,
you know, they were coming, some

1164
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,520
were coming with their, you
know, their, their grandparents

1165
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:56,040
or their parents.
And but then some people, you

1166
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,279
just saw they were coming
because they just heard the

1167
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:01,520
music and was in love with the
music.

1168
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,520
You know what's funny, Malcolm?
You probably took care of a

1169
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:09,720
guest for me one time because
Marty was on my podcast and it

1170
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,800
had to be 6 months later.
I got an e-mail from a lady who

1171
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,560
said my daughter heard the
podcast with Marty.

1172
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:24,960
She's she's she had some sort of
debilitating IT illness.

1173
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:29,560
I don't remember what it was,
but her biggest wish in life was

1174
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:36,840
to see Stevie Nicks and, and, or
Fleetwood Mac and, and, you

1175
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,760
know, she just thought Marty was
the most incredible man.

1176
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,760
And the stories about Stevie and
stuff were incredible.

1177
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,960
And so I, I forwarded this
e-mail to Marty and said, Hey,

1178
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,880
you know, seems legit.
She seems like a nice lady.

1179
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,520
Let me know if you want to do
anything with it.

1180
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,120
And he goes, absolutely, if you
can handle it, great.

1181
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:58,000
But I'll take care of the, the
situation on our end.

1182
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,080
And it was in North Carolina, as
I recall.

1183
01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:02,880
But he set her right up and she
sent me.

1184
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:07,760
She was in tears, You know, she
was, she was was so thrilled

1185
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,640
that he had taken care of that.
And her daughter, she sent me

1186
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,320
pictures of her daughter at the
show and all this stuff.

1187
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,760
This was just after COVID.
So of course there was no meet

1188
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:18,280
and greets or anything.
So.

1189
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,440
So anyways, yeah, that was cool.
Marty's such a great dude.

1190
01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:26,080
I love Marty.
He's had Marty is amazing.

1191
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:31,720
He has helped so many people.
Yeah, so many people know

1192
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,640
reaching back and and and and
bringing people up.

1193
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:38,080
Like I said, he, you know, he,
he helped me and got me started

1194
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,920
and he's done that.
So he does it so often.

1195
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,440
Every tour.
He's probably finding somebody.

1196
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:46,360
He.
Seems really loyal too.

1197
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:47,800
Very loyal.
Very.

1198
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,480
Once you're in his circle, you
know, as long as you don't screw

1199
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:52,880
him, once you're in his circle,
you're, you're golden.

1200
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:54,680
You're golden.
He's gonna Yeah.

1201
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,880
So definitely.
He he he saw another person that

1202
01:10:57,880 --> 01:10:59,480
gives you a launching pad.
It's up to you.

1203
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:00,800
Yeah.
And then then nice to talk.

1204
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,160
He even he says, and I say it as
well.

1205
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,280
It's just I'm.
I'm just giving you a platform

1206
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,280
to show who you are after.
After that, it's up to you.

1207
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,800
If you really want to do this,
then it's all up to you.

1208
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:14,160
I'm just giving you the
opportunity.

1209
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,200
That's so cool.
Listen and I try to do the same

1210
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:18,800
thing.
You do that as well.

1211
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,480
You try to mentor people and
then keep them going.

1212
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,640
Yeah, that's cool.
So you've got your your list of

1213
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,000
favorites.
Favorites of what?

1214
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:31,240
Everything, whether it's vendors
or crew or whatever people that

1215
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:37,160
you like to work with.
Like I said, my Rodger Davies is

1216
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:40,080
one of my favourites because.
No, I mean the people under you,

1217
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,520
the people that you're hiring,
the people you're hiring.

1218
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:52,280
Yes, there's a gentleman who was
a stagehand that I used to meet

1219
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,480
and I used to work with a lot
when I went through Texas.

1220
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:01,240
And this gentleman, his name is,
his name is Gilbert Castaleji.

1221
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,680
He goes by it goes by the name
of Pork Chop.

1222
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,080
And then his, his story kind of
mirrored my.

1223
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,680
So anytime I would come in
through Texas and he would

1224
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,720
always ask me, you know, take me
on tour.

1225
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,320
And he says, take me on tour.
And I said, OK, one of these

1226
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:23,360
days, kid, one of these days.
And so I was rehearsing with an

1227
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:33,800
artist in in Texas for a Super
Bowl and pork chop was my he

1228
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:38,280
became like my my crew chief and
was the main guy I work with the

1229
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,400
whole time while I was there
person.

1230
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:42,840
And we were there for like about
a week.

1231
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,280
And you know, of course he kept
he was asking me about taking me

1232
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,200
on tour and I said, one of these
days, something's going to

1233
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,400
happen.
And then this happened that that

1234
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:56,200
I was going to, oh, the share
tour was going to go to Europe

1235
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,960
and that share tour was heading
to Europe.

1236
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,160
And one of the, I want to say
one of the original, one of the

1237
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:05,560
carpenters couldn't make the
tour.

1238
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:08,960
And so I told Chop.
I said, hey, Chop.

1239
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:09,720
Yes.
I asked him.

1240
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:11,320
I said, do you have a, do you
have a passport?

1241
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,480
He goes, yeah, I got a passport.
I go, OK, I got a job.

1242
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,080
I got AI got a gig for you.
You're going to go tour with me

1243
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:21,120
with Cher on the Cher tour.
And he was like, oh, I said get

1244
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:22,960
ready to go because we're
heading out.

1245
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:30,400
And that is probably one of the
proudest things I've done in my

1246
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:31,560
career.
Really.

1247
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:37,040
Pork Chop started out as the 4th
Carpenter on Cher and then

1248
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:42,320
through the years he rose to be
the head Carpenter and then he

1249
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,880
rose to being her stage manager.
Wow.

1250
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,160
He rose to be her production
manager.

1251
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:53,520
Damn.
So they see someone's life

1252
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:55,840
change.
Because that's amazing.

1253
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,320
That is a life changing thing.
You start to see someone's

1254
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,560
career blossom, they're starting
to make more money, they're

1255
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,800
starting to be able to do things
for their family like buy a

1256
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,680
house, take care of their
family.

1257
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,120
It's amazing.
It's through school.

1258
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,680
You literally changed his life
path.

1259
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,520
You know, you just altered the
path of his life.

1260
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:17,960
So more that's.
Amazing.

1261
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,240
I love that I get goosebumps
from that.

1262
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,800
Yeah.
So to see someone go from one

1263
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,840
position to another position in
their life and to see them

1264
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,520
blossom, there was no there was
nothing better than that.

1265
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,320
Let let me ask you this.
So, you know, you started in in

1266
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:39,040
a theater and then you started
touring, I'm assuming mostly

1267
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,640
arenas and stuff.
But most of what you're doing

1268
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:43,880
now I think is in in stadiums,
right?

1269
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:48,760
Like BTSS stadiums, obviously
Beyoncé stadiums.

1270
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,920
Last year I did we did Beyoncé
Cowboy Carter tour and that was

1271
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:56,200
the biggest touring production
ever.

1272
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:58,560
Yeah.
Only thing that was bigger than

1273
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:05,040
that before that was U2360.
We kind of surpassed that and

1274
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,800
that's not and proud.
It's just more stuff.

1275
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,000
To.
Move around you.

1276
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,000
Know how much does that change
your life?

1277
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,480
Like I know Marty said to me,
you know, my legs and my back

1278
01:15:15,480 --> 01:15:19,160
and stuff are so sore because
from the production office to

1279
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,480
the stage now is such a
distance.

1280
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:24,320
You know, it's just a ridiculous
amount of steps.

1281
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,640
Oh, yeah.
I mean, in stadiums, they're

1282
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,520
very, you know, it's time
consuming.

1283
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:34,960
It's it's it's, you know, an
arena tours, you know, are are

1284
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:39,040
it takes arena tour to say an
average arena tours like maybe

1285
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,320
20 something trucks and that's
that's that's a pretty good size

1286
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,120
now.
But now do you have in you even

1287
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:47,360
have arena tours that even have
30 to 40 trucks, which is to me

1288
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:49,520
is goofy.
Yeah, it is.

1289
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,000
But stadium tours are, are, are
normally bigger.

1290
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:57,840
So that's they're, they're,
there's just more of it, you

1291
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:05,400
know, like like Beyoncé's tour,
we were 8181 trucks of

1292
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:10,520
production and I think we were
18 trucks of steel.

1293
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,800
That's.
Insane. 100 hundred trucks for a

1294
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,160
frigging tour huh?
That is crazy.

1295
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,120
Were you leapfrogging the steel?
Oh yeah, we have two you have to

1296
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:21,680
have.
We had two systems that

1297
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:27,880
leapfrogged 2 systems in America
and two systems in Europe and

1298
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:33,920
the UK we went and to get it
from one continent to the other.

1299
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:39,880
8740 Sevens cargo planes, yeah.
So it's.

1300
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,920
Quite a production and people
wonder why the tickets are, you

1301
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,000
know, 500 bucks or whatever.
Guess what you know, Look

1302
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,800
around.
All that someone's got to pay

1303
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,320
for it and got and we're the
touring industry is blessed.

1304
01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:54,560
We're blessed.
And the thing that kind of

1305
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,320
helped us, it was the the
decline of people buying

1306
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:02,360
records, people buying actually
going into a store and buying

1307
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:07,760
ACD or buying streaming changed
everything for the music

1308
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:11,480
industry.
There's all there was pluses and

1309
01:17:11,480 --> 01:17:16,040
there was many minuses because
make any money from a record.

1310
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,160
But also social media and
YouTube, you know, certainly

1311
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:23,080
like 'cause these artists, they
get 10 million followers on, on

1312
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,040
TikTok and then fans are just
rabid.

1313
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:28,400
They want to go out and see the
show, you know, that they've

1314
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,880
gotten to know them, you know,
so closely on, on these social

1315
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,200
media platforms.
So they're dying to go see the

1316
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,840
show.
The the CEOI keep repeating

1317
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:41,960
this, but the CEO from Live
Nation, on one of his speeches,

1318
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,120
they asked him, do you see the
market continuing to grow?

1319
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,480
And he said, yeah, we're very
bullish on it.

1320
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:51,120
And, and why, you know, it's
these shows are so big and

1321
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:52,640
there's so many shows out and
stuff.

1322
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,480
And he said, here's the thing,
most of these artists have 20

1323
01:17:55,480 --> 01:17:59,680
million fans on social media.
All I got to do, I got an easy

1324
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:01,320
job.
I just have to sell tickets to

1325
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:05,080
5% of them.
You know, and, and it's true

1326
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:06,480
when you say it like that,
right?

1327
01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:09,160
Like, that's a huge number,
500,000 people are going to want

1328
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:10,600
to see this show.
Wow.

1329
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:15,040
You know, so the numbers are
just ridiculous.

1330
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,760
Does your job get that much
harder or does it just require

1331
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:23,480
more time?
I did did it does it it because

1332
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:26,720
it shows the productions are the
productions are bigger.

1333
01:18:27,480 --> 01:18:31,880
A lot of the artists now only
want to be out for a shorter,

1334
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,120
shorter period of time.
And a lot of them don't want to

1335
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:38,120
tour for a whole year.
They may want to only two or

1336
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:43,000
maybe six months, maybe only
five months because of, you

1337
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:46,640
know, their availability,
because they have so many other

1338
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:48,120
things they're doing and.
Yeah.

1339
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:51,160
So and then the schedules get
tighter.

1340
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:55,880
So.
We're trying to do a lot more in

1341
01:18:55,880 --> 01:19:00,680
a shorter period of time, so the
logistics of putting our tour

1342
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:09,480
together and moving it around
the US or around the world takes

1343
01:19:09,480 --> 01:19:12,200
up a lot of your time.
Well, just the fact that

1344
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:16,040
everything's usually like ground
supported and stuff, you know,

1345
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:19,400
because you can't just put in
hang points in the ceiling when

1346
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,560
there's no ceiling.
It doesn't stop people from

1347
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,240
designing something like that.
That is crazy, isn't it?

1348
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,720
It's wild some of these, the
creativity of some of these

1349
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,800
designs.
Yeah, and it's getting even

1350
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:37,200
Wilder because now you don't
have to even need now the new

1351
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:43,800
design team, may they don't.
They can go to AI now and just

1352
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:49,280
go, hey, I want a flying
elephant, a purple flying

1353
01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:52,160
elephant with some answers on
it.

1354
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,000
Show me a picture of that well.
As long as you got a big enough

1355
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:01,640
check take can create it, sure.
Purple elephants, you know, Do

1356
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:03,720
you want them female elephants
or male elephants?

1357
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:06,120
Yeah, yeah.
And I think one of the other

1358
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:11,160
things driving it, honestly, I'm
probably wrong, but women?

1359
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,000
Have so much more of an ego than
men.

1360
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,480
And so, you know, if Taylor
Swift has that, I want that too,

1361
01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:19,960
you know, or if so and so has
that, I want that too.

1362
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,960
You know, I, I wonder if some of
that is driving it.

1363
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,160
And it probably some of it's
true, but it got nothing to do

1364
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,880
whether if they're a woman or
man.

1365
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,960
Yeah, everybody wants to out do.
That everybody's party.

1366
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,120
That's true.
Older, Some of the older artists

1367
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:42,360
that were no and that were
artists in the 70s and 80s, no

1368
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:43,840
rock bands and all that kind of
stuff.

1369
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:47,360
And that that necessarily they
don't gravitate to that.

1370
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,000
Well, I don't know.
Look at George Strait.

1371
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:54,040
Yeah, but George, George Strait
is selling massive.

1372
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,160
It's insane.
Yeah, he's and he's supposed to

1373
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:00,240
be retired, but he's not.
But his productions?

1374
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:04,160
They're keeps getting bigger.
Yeah, but he, the way he does

1375
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:08,200
it, he does it a different way.
He'd normally a lot of his stuff

1376
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:13,120
is like we call one offs, so
it's one city and then he gets

1377
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,120
all that stuff in from that
city.

1378
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:21,760
He mainly brings his band gear
and his band and maybe the

1379
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:25,800
monitors but everything else is
a big one off.

1380
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,760
He's.
Videos from that city, the

1381
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:33,520
audios, maybe from that city,
video maybe from that city he's

1382
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,480
not carrying.
So it's like a series of

1383
01:21:35,480 --> 01:21:38,880
festivals almost, As opposed to
yeah, as opposed to a tour.

1384
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:41,760
Another way of doing and yeah,
yeah.

1385
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:45,040
As opposed, is it good?
Are they like you're probably

1386
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:47,440
seeing into the future,
obviously, because you've got

1387
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:50,200
some tours that are probably not
even going out until next year

1388
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:53,800
that you're already working on.
Do we keep getting bigger or are

1389
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:57,320
people starting to top out and
go, you know, Nah, we're going

1390
01:21:57,320 --> 01:21:59,120
to back off a little.
Still getting bigger.

1391
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:03,240
We're still getting bigger, you
think like I thought, I thought

1392
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:07,000
Beyoncé was the biggest thing
ever and nothing would ever top

1393
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,440
it.
And it's looking like BTS will

1394
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:12,000
be bigger than that.
That is wild.

1395
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:14,560
It is wild.
But it is wild.

1396
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:16,360
But that.
Yeah, me too.

1397
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,080
The the fans almost kind of
demand it.

1398
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,760
They want to, they want
something else.

1399
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,880
They want more eye candy.
It's you have to present more,

1400
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:35,920
especially because of TikTok and
YouTube and the Internet is

1401
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:40,080
always pushing envelope that
that's pushing envelope.

1402
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:44,160
So and then you have another
name in the creatives who are

1403
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:46,160
constantly coming up with
different ideas.

1404
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:49,440
So yeah.
Yeah, I don't.

1405
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,200
What change you?
What?

1406
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:54,800
What still What still excites
you about like let's call it

1407
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:56,920
load in day.
What still excites you?

1408
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:07,520
What still excites me is the
feeling you see on the fans

1409
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,120
eyes.
Really.

1410
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,000
That's cool you.
That still excites me.

1411
01:23:13,480 --> 01:23:17,200
I still get that feeling when I
when the first time I walked

1412
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,560
into and saw her from the fire
and I walked in and you walk

1413
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:26,280
into the into the arena or the
stadium and you see the stage

1414
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,160
and you see they're waiting for
the artists.

1415
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:34,480
And I would I tell a lot of our
the women and men that are out

1416
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:37,040
with me.
I tell them that we are

1417
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,760
incredibly blessed to be doing
this.

1418
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:45,320
What we do, we don't save lives,
we ain't saving souls.

1419
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:52,280
But maybe someone is coming to a
show that is doing that.

1420
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:59,400
Maybe this show, this maybe,
maybe a a mom, a single woman,

1421
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:04,280
single mom or a firefighter or
anybody.

1422
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,440
And this is maybe one of the
only shows they get to go see.

1423
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:13,480
And this show is, well,
hopefully they enjoy themselves

1424
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:17,400
and that's impactful on their
lives for that moment.

1425
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:21,320
And.
We are a part of that because I

1426
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:28,800
I know I was on a tour years ago
where we've two young ladies

1427
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:35,080
came to a show and they were no,
they were really big fans of

1428
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:37,880
that show.
And then we found out later on

1429
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:43,720
that from their parents that
they that they died in AI think

1430
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:47,440
it was a car accident.
But you.

1431
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:51,840
But that was one of the last
things that they they saw was

1432
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:54,760
that I was.
On they ended on a high like.

1433
01:24:56,120 --> 01:25:00,320
I said we're not, we're not
saving lives or souls, but maybe

1434
01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:03,640
there's somebody that is doing
that and we're entertaining.

1435
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,640
When I love people, I love
people who do it for that still.

1436
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,560
Like think about it.
You know, there was a production

1437
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:14,720
manager on Earth Wind and Fire,
you know, 40 years ago or

1438
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:17,680
whenever it was when you were
standing there as the 10 year

1439
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:23,120
old kid looking going, wow, I
want to do this someday, you

1440
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:24,320
know.
And there was a production

1441
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:28,400
manager there that had the same
feeling like, you know, look at

1442
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,920
these kids eyes, you know, so he
made he made a difference in

1443
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:33,680
your life very indirectly,
right?

1444
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,640
Oh yeah, yeah, I know that.
The feeling when we all, all of

1445
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,240
us all say it, Marty says.
A lot of people say the feeling

1446
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:41,160
you get when you call house
lights.

1447
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,960
Everyone, every LD tells me
that, like, why do you still do

1448
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,240
it?
Oh man, House lights out, you

1449
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:48,320
know?
Yeah.

1450
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:54,440
That's that feeling to hear the
crowds, they'll yell and you got

1451
01:25:54,440 --> 01:25:58,080
to think about they've been
thinking about this show for no,

1452
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,760
for weeks, months or years.
I don't know, though, like in

1453
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:06,160
the heyday of the **NSYNC and
Britney Spears and stuff, I

1454
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:11,200
remember I was doing a lot of
stuff with, with Peter Morris

1455
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:13,840
and with Steve Cohen because I
do a lot of stuff with Michael

1456
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:16,120
Brokaw and he was managing these
guys.

1457
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:20,520
And those shows when the house
lights went out, I don't

1458
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:23,600
normally, and I should, but I
don't normally wear earplugs.

1459
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,400
But for those shows I had to.
Like, it was piercing and it

1460
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:29,760
didn't stop until the house
lights went back on.

1461
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:34,520
You know, it's just, it was a
constant scream from beginning

1462
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,800
to end, you know, just never
went away.

1463
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:39,560
Yeah.
What that that shows you you're

1464
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,640
doing something right?
I guess so, huh?

1465
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:43,480
So what's next for you?
Where?

1466
01:26:43,480 --> 01:26:47,400
Where are you going next?
I'm like I said, I'm, I'm

1467
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,040
working on BTSI, just got back
from Mexico City doing a site

1468
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:57,320
survey and I I've got BTS going
out and then I'm also pink.

1469
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:00,080
It's got a couple of one off
dates.

1470
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,600
So I'm also trying to put that
together so I'm all I'm kind of

1471
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:06,720
all over the place.
Yeah.

1472
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:09,800
So you're not going to the cabin
for the summer or anything.

1473
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:10,720
You're not going to go spend
the.

1474
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:16,120
Summer going to I'll be I'll be
in planes, trains and

1475
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,280
automobiles for.
How long are you going to keep

1476
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:24,800
doing this, Malcolm?
I'm, I'm, I'm hoping it'll only

1477
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:29,280
do this another five years.
I'm hoping and then hopefully

1478
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,080
I'll do a little swan song.
I won't probably leave it all

1479
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:35,440
together, but I'll I'll
transition from being a

1480
01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:38,800
production manager hopefully to
being like a site coordinator or

1481
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:42,000
a consultant or something.
Like a production advisor, a

1482
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,040
consultant.
Yeah, there's a lot of gigs for

1483
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,040
that stuff now, especially as
these, these systems keep

1484
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,840
getting bigger and bigger and
the logistics get more

1485
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:54,480
complicated and stuff.
So I think the, the people, the

1486
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:58,080
the Ogs, you know, which I guess
I'm becoming one of at this

1487
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:03,080
point because I'm in my 60s.
But I, I think that there's

1488
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:06,560
always sort of a, an ability to
transfer knowledge to other

1489
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:10,080
people and you can sustain your
career as long as you want to,

1490
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:13,600
you know, really because we
carry so much knowledge because

1491
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:15,320
we've been around for a long
time, right?

1492
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:16,360
So.
We are.

1493
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:18,680
We are the dinosaurs and yes, we
are.

1494
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,520
I've put it together a couple of
tours where, you know, well, the

1495
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,000
thing The thing is different now
is that, you know, back in the

1496
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:29,200
day, artists would start off
playing clubs and he would play

1497
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:31,480
clubs for a number of years.
And then eventually they'd move

1498
01:28:31,480 --> 01:28:34,520
and play theaters.
And then they play theaters for

1499
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:36,920
a number of years.
And then they would jump to

1500
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:41,240
maybe stadiums or opening,
opening up for stadium acts or

1501
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:44,960
playing stadiums.
Now you can go literally from

1502
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:47,560
your bedroom.
Like artists can go from

1503
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:54,040
obscurity to playing arenas.
And it's wild.

1504
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:56,640
Right to stadiums.
Yeah.

1505
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:02,040
So, but a lot of times the the
artists are growing faster than

1506
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:04,840
their production.
So they starting out with a

1507
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:09,000
small production team and then
that that small production team

1508
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:15,720
is isn't isn't as prepared for
the success and the speed that

1509
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:19,480
the artist grows.
What's the the young girl that

1510
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:21,880
Marty does?
You probably do or two.

1511
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,440
Olivia Rodriguez.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1512
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,640
I mean, she was one of those
that just popped into the

1513
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:34,200
industry doing stadiums
practically, you know, like it

1514
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,640
was just.
It's crazy how it works now.

1515
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,600
I come from an era where you
worked through the clubs to, you

1516
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,400
know, maybe you got to a
Community Center or something

1517
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:47,280
and then God forbid you made it
to a theater, you know, but

1518
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:50,320
there wasn't social media and
all of these things that could

1519
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:53,080
make you a mega success, you
know, quickly so.

1520
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:56,960
Was away sometimes pretty
quickly as well, because a lot.

1521
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:00,960
Of the sure does.
Younger generation their their

1522
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,720
attention span is all really
short so you.

1523
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:08,520
Can it is true, isn't it?
You could be the, you know, the

1524
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:13,080
taste of the town one year and
then it could all kind of drop

1525
01:30:13,080 --> 01:30:15,080
off.
In two years, you're done.

1526
01:30:15,480 --> 01:30:18,080
Well, they, they always say
don't shit on people who are on

1527
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,720
their way on or when you're on
your way up because you might

1528
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:23,480
need them again.
When you're on your way down,

1529
01:30:23,480 --> 01:30:25,520
you're going to see the same
people, right?

1530
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,000
So I'm sure I screwed that one
up completely.

1531
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,720
Well, Malcolm, I appreciate you
taking the time to do this.

1532
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:35,000
And it's been great getting to
know you and hear your story and

1533
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,320
stuff.
I think people are really going

1534
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,600
to dig it.
And yeah, you mentioned

1535
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:41,800
dinosaurs.
It's funny because we do an

1536
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:45,400
event that Geezers of Gear is
involved in called Dining with

1537
01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:49,240
with Dinosaurs.
And it's a thing that we just

1538
01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:52,440
did our second year and it was
huge and you'd know everyone

1539
01:30:52,440 --> 01:30:55,800
that was there, literally like
you'd know every single.

1540
01:30:56,120 --> 01:31:00,120
So we've got dinosaurs on one
side, which is like 20 or 25

1541
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:03,880
people that are lighting
designers, production managers,

1542
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:07,120
sound engineers, whatever.
And then we've got a bunch of

1543
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,720
either just industry people or
young people who buy tickets to

1544
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:14,000
come to this event.
It's at the the LDI trade show,

1545
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,600
the lighting trade show.
Yeah, yeah.

1546
01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:18,080
Yeah, I spoke at that.
Was it that?

1547
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,640
Yeah, this year as the first.
Time I went yeah, yeah, yeah,

1548
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,000
yeah.
So we did this event there

1549
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,720
called Dining with Dinosaurs and
it, it, it was several 100

1550
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:29,840
people and it was just a very,
very cool event.

1551
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,160
So maybe we'll invite you this
year if you'll come and do that.

1552
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:34,240
Yeah, it'd be fun.
It'll be fun.

1553
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:36,400
It's a transfer of knowledge,
you know, and, and just

1554
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,880
mentorship and, and allowing
these young people coming into

1555
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:43,240
the industry to be in a room and
to be able to network with that

1556
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:45,360
level of people.
Like, I didn't have that

1557
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:47,400
available to me when I was
starting my career.

1558
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:49,800
So I didn't neither nor did you.
Yeah, nor did you.

1559
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:52,520
Your grandma gave it to you, but
it wasn't available to you.

1560
01:31:53,480 --> 01:31:54,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

1561
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:56,600
Well, thank you, Malcolm.
I appreciate you.

1562
01:31:57,280 --> 01:31:59,320
Yeah, I appreciate you and I
wish you well.

1563
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:02,520
Take care and stay safe.
Yeah, and you have fun this

1564
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:06,040
summer out with BTS and
screaming, screaming teenagers.

1565
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,840
BTS must stand for screaming
teenagers in Japanese or

1566
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:11,760
whatever.
Korean.

1567
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:13,560
Yeah.
All right.

1568
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:15,440
Thanks, Malcolm.
You're welcome.

1569
01:32:15,440 --> 01:32:19,520
Take care.
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1570
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:23,600
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