#307 - Kim Martin - Women in Lighting: Breaking Barriers and Building Careers - LEADING LADIES

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Hello and welcome to Leading
Ladies with me, Sarah Burney.

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This podcast has been brilliant.
It's been with Kim Martin.

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I cannot believe we've been on.
We've been talking for two

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hours.
So that's that.

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That's my longest podcast yet.
I think you're really gonna like

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this one.
And if there's any ladies out

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there that are listening to the
podcast and would like to come

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on and Share your story, then
please, please, please get in

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touch with me.
It's producer at

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geezersofgear.com.
And I really would love to have

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you on the show chat about how
you got into the industry, your

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thoughts and your views would be
absolutely incredible.

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And very proud to say as well
that Leading Ladies is sponsored

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by Light Switch.
Light Switch is a collective of

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award-winning lighting, media
and visual designers committed

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to changing how people
experience the world.

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For more than 30 years we have
been practicing pragmatic

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design.
At Light Switch, we believe it's

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our responsibility to keep our
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expertise is extensive.
From working one-on-one with

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science and artists to
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collaborate on all visual
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and powerful experiences.
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As a part of our commitment to
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sponsor leading ladies.
Now here's the leading ladies by

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Geezers of Gear on tour.
Maybe she got some stories to

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share.
Now here's the leading ladies by

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the Geezers of Gear, Rockstar
ladies with some stories to

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share because La La La La la
ladies.

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Hello, Kim, Welcome to the
leading ladies.

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Hello, thank you for having me.
Oh, it's a pleasure.

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I know we've just had a little
bit of a conversation, but the

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last time I saw you and the
first time I met you was at the

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event LDI Dining with Dinosaurs.
Correct.

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And I don't think I was the only
one there to talk to people I

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hadn't seen in a long time.
Now I know that the idea and I

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think you guys are continuing to
work on it.

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It's a wonderful thing and
continuing to work on like, how

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do we really benefit the people
who want to get the attention of

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people have been doing it for a
long time.

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But what I saw in this first one
was a lot of people such as

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myself who are alike.
Oh my gosh, I haven't talked to

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Patty in decades.
I want to go say hello, right?

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And that was lovely.
Obviously we had the the, the

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panel and say the panel, we had
that.

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We had the, the Dinos.
But then more and more people

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started coming in once they
heard that, you know, this room

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was basically full of legends
and not just people.

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Yeah, that were Dinos, official
Dinos.

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It was like everybody.
And like you said, you know, you

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hadn't seen certain people.
And I mean, I actually the, the

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best bit for me was at the end,
you know, which is when I met

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yourself.
And I remember because Scott

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DeVos, I love him so much, he
was walking around.

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I mean, he was so proud because
he really like we, we, he really

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helped put everything together.
And he was so proud walking

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round the tables and introducing
different people.

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And then I remember him sort of
coming past a couple.

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Oh, was you, you were standing
with Nancy, wasn't you?

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You were standing with Nancy, I
believe, and somebody else that

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I I'm not familiar with.
And you know, Scott said hello

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and you, you, you stopped me in
my tracks and he's like, I just

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need to speak to Scott.
And he was like, yes, like

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everybody here you're
introducing, but I actually want

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to talk to you.
And I was like, that is so cool.

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Like, you know, like you want
you wanted to speak to Scott and

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have you worked?
I take it you worked with Scott

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before or?
Well, it it was with OB, an

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opportunity that I had when he
was with OB.

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Really.
Yeah.

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And when was the last time you
saw him?

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Oh my gosh, I can't even
remember.

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Certainly decades.
Really.

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Wow.
Yeah, wow.

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Yeah.
That whole room was just full of

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people that I've I've known of
but had never met.

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And the whole, for the first
event that we'd ever held, which

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you know, the diamond dinosaurs,
I think it went very

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successfully.
We are actually in talks at the

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moment to do it again this year.
And we've had the Dinos on like

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in meetings now saying, OK, we
think this should be better this

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way.
That should be like more

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organized this way.
So I really feel that this year

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is going to be really good.
It's not going to be an

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afternoon at the moment.
It's there's talks for a

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different time during the the
LDI conference.

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So I'm, I'm, I'm really excited
about it because I think it's

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going to be bigger.
I think it's going to be better

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and especially more, yeah, more
organized, basically.

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Well, sometimes you have an idea
and you just have to start right

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and then and then see what
sticks.

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So, you know, the spaghetti has
stuck to the wall and now you're

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able to, you know, refine it
from there.

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Exactly.
I would say especially for us, I

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mean, it was Scott DeVos that
actually came up with the idea

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when he was on a podcast with
Marcel.

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And I call that he literally
planted the seed and it just

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started to grow and it grew into
last year's event.

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And now it's growing and growing
and growing and it's just, it's

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just fabulous to be part of.
And also knowing that, you know,

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LDI did like it, they like the
concepts and they could see

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potential in it.
That's, that's a huge thing.

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I think that's a, you know, a
huge thing to yeah, to be part

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of.
So for me, I was like when when

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we started talking, let's I
would like to say what I mean,

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most people know you, but for
those that don't, what are you

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doing?
What, what are you doing now?

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And then we'll go back to your
the history of you, which is

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just blows my mind when I was
reading everything.

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Right now I am a account manager
at Felix Lighting, right?

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Yeah.
So I'm an accounts manager,

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which I feel is a misunderstood
position, honestly.

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Like a lot of people don't
really know what is expected

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and, and it could be because it
may be changes between

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companies, but I think really
the job depends on who's doing

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it right.
Because I have a deep background

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in production, I may be
fulfilling this position

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differently than others might,
right?

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And So what would you like, you
know, describe your job now to

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new, like new people coming into
the industry.

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You know what is?
Your my, yeah, I, I'm able to

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because of my background service
people who are looking for gear

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and production, right?
So gear is fun here because, you

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know, Felix is a bit of a niche
and that they're focusing on the

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newest equipment, right?
There are plenty of big players

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who work across all the
disciplines.

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So I think in a business
environment you need to find

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what your niche is.
And because I'm a lighting geek,

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this is a great place because
they are constantly looking for

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what the the new spec is going
to be, right?

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Like what you know, and we do a
lot of business to business.

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So there's a lot of larger
companies coming in to pick up

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those last 100 lights of some
large event they need.

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And that is fine.
Also, I help people who they're

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not, maybe they need something,
but they're not quite sure what

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they need.
And, and I don't know if people

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understand it's a tender time
for clients.

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Like, they don't want to feel
stupid.

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They're looking for answers,
right?

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And I think people with
knowledge sometimes can get

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impatient with people who don't
know what they're talking about.

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And yet that's the job.
The job is to talk to people who

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need some guidance, you know,
who need to know what they need

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to produce an event, right?
And yet they're supposed to be

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the person who knows everything
and they don't.

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So it's kind of like my opinion
is my job is to make my clients

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look good.
Honestly, that's my supportive

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job.
Yeah, that's my job.

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People are like your job.
What is to tell me what I need

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Even though some people think
that their job in my position is

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for you to tell me what you need
when in fact a lot of times

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people don't know what they need
and.

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With all the experience, which
we'll go into the experience

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that you have, you know, you
really can give an open mind and

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suggest and the way your
personality is to suggest them

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going into a certain way and at
the same time listening to their

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needs, which is, you know, it's
a very diplomatic role as well,

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isn't it?
You know, it really is because

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there's so many different kinds
of client.

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There are so many different
kinds.

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I mean, I, I'm not going to lie,
especially when I'm busy, I love

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the client that comes in with a
full list.

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I love that, you know, but like
anything else, and I had talked

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about this at the beginning,
it's a balance.

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People who come in and know
exactly what they want, they

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have their challenges as well.
You know, this is an event.

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Events are ever changing.
And it's so funny because of the

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thing that can get people
frustrated the easiest is the

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fact that it's constantly
changing.

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And yet that's one of the
definitions of being in this

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industry.
Yeah.

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And that's the thing.
I mean, you've seen the industry

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change over decades, you know, I
mean, what's been the biggest

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shift, like in concert lighting,
what would you say has been the

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biggest shift in your eyes that
you've seen?

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Well, moving lighting, of
course.

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I mean, when I started it was
park cans and color changers,

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right?
I had some, you know, I had a

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can of Freon at my hip because
that's how we could unlock the,

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the color changer addresses.
And that was it, you know, that

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was it for technology.
I was going to ask you like what

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what piece of like lighting tech
couldn't you live without now

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but say 10 years ago you would
never have imagined having a

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needing?
That's an interesting

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conversation because I believe
sometimes the answer could be

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low tech.
And I'm certainly one of those

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people who while more is more,
you can also do a lot of design

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with less.
And I think a lot of folks might

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be more professionally
successful if they were able to

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tailor their vision to the
available time and budget, you

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know?
Yeah.

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So things I can't do without I,
I don't know that.

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I mean, I've lit things with
clip lights.

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So what can I not do without I?
I don't, I don't know, sorry.

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I don't have an answer to that
because you know it's true.

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It's kind of a vague.
It was just one thing that I

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thought that maybe, yeah, there
was something that, you know,

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you may have, yeah, may have
come across or something or felt

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in your heart.
But really what I want to know

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is like, where did you start?
So after all these decades to

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where you are now, where did it
all begin for you?

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For me, it began in theatre.
That's a common starting place,

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right, Because it's an education
sphere.

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And I was fortunate.
I was someone who, I was the

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first one in my family to go to
college and my family genealogy

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to get the opportunity.
You know, there were people

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before me who had that want.
They wanted to do it.

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It just didn't work out.
And so my parents kind of broke

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a chain.
My parents both came from

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abusive families and broke a
chain with us.

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You know, they were able, I'm
very proud to say they supported

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us.
My father was very concerned

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that I would be getting a
college degree in theater.

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He's all like, really come, I
hope you can make a career in

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underwater basket weaving.
Like I just that's he called it

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that.
He was like, I'm concerned.

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But it was theater because
that's what education offered,

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right?
And I was participating in it

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for fun.
Really.

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I did not see it as a career.
And then I was assigned running

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a lighting console, one of the
first computer consoles, which

226
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,080
was huge, you know, and
electronic.

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00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,600
I wish I could remember the name
of it, but I'm serious.

228
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,560
It was as big as like a washer
and dryer put together so.

229
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,280
So I would like to go back to
something like your, your like

230
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,720
the starting point really it was
a bit for me.

231
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,360
I'd like to know about
education.

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00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,160
So you mentioned obviously that,
you know, it's education that

233
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,200
brought you into the theatre
world, you know, as training.

234
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,240
Did you get guidance, proper
guidance that there is a career

235
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,680
out there like what you've
achieved when you were at

236
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:30,200
school?
Not really, you know, and I

237
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,400
think there have been more
movement recently for that, but

238
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:41,880
really it was you could maybe
join the union.

239
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,080
You know, some of the staff
there were union stagehands and

240
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,480
that is a good career.
That is a good trade.

241
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,360
So they focused on that and and
theatre, they didn't know

242
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,280
anything outside of that.
They really didn't.

243
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,480
And also my guidance was like
the McCandless method, some from

244
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,960
this way, some from that way.
And I was given some lighting

245
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,960
design for plays and musicals,
and I just guessed.

246
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,200
I mean, First off, I just
guessed.

247
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,960
It's probably you know, And if
it didn't work I'd go downstairs

248
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,200
and swap them out for something
else to see if I could get what

249
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,400
I was looking for.
It's something that I really

250
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,480
would love to get into more and
that's educating young people

251
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,560
who don't know about the
industry, who don't know that

252
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,600
there is these opportunities to
have such an incredible career

253
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:38,760
in lighting, in, you know, audio
in whatever aspect of our in our

254
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,000
music industry.
I mean, in public education,

255
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,640
what, a nurse, a doctor, a
lawyer, right?

256
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:51,320
And only in the last decade or
so, the idea that anyone can do

257
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:57,000
any of these jobs and they're
not 100% gender related, just in

258
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,400
society in general, right?
It's hard to find those niche.

259
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:08,160
And I there's a lot of, yeah,
it's, it's a, there's a lot of

260
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,360
information.
So how does anybody find

261
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,480
anything?
I think a lot of people are

262
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,520
drawn to this industry because
of the performative aspect,

263
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,080
because of, say, the music
aspect, because they heard about

264
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,640
it or saw, you know, and I
that's going to be true about

265
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,920
any profession.
I, I do see there being a wider

266
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,920
range of ways that people can
find out or option.

267
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:39,760
And my first sales job, I was
left to figure out how to

268
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,120
actually get sales, like the
first job I had in system sales

269
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,960
to learn about the money.
But I'm jumping ahead in my

270
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,640
story.
But I, I offered, I wrote a note

271
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,520
to all, all of the drama
teachers in the four counties

272
00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:02,080
around me saying in I, I'd be
happy to speak 10 minutes to

273
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,680
your theater students in regards
to careers in our industry in

274
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,760
exchange for you walking me
through your old, you know,

275
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,680
cafetorium or theater.
And we can talk about whether or

276
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,880
not we can assist you in
specifying a new system, you

277
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,040
know.
And that was my offer.

278
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,319
And I wrote 60 letters.
I think I got like 6 replies.

279
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,480
But those were interesting,
right?

280
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,080
And I even remember in my
Graduate School days, I went to

281
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,440
Los Angeles, mostly because I
couldn't find touring work in

282
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,560
San Francisco and I didn't know
any path other than education.

283
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,280
So when I had an opportunity to
apply to get a master's at UCLA,

284
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,920
that was also part I was able to
be a teaching assistant.

285
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,720
So that meant I spoke to the
undergraduates in the lighting,

286
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,840
the lighting classes.
And I would say 90% of them

287
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,640
wanted to be actors and they
were, they didn't want to be

288
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,720
there.
They made them take technical

289
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,120
classes and they didn't want to
be there.

290
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,040
So I remember even early on
saying like you might think you

291
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,080
don't want to be here.
However, there are so many

292
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,840
career opportunities in acting,
directing, producing, and even

293
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,560
as an actor, you should know a
little something about the

294
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,760
technical end.
You're going to need everything

295
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,080
you can to stand out.
Like, you know, people might be

296
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,120
looking for you because you're a
certain type and you're thinking

297
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:35,800
you're just getting this on
acting skills.

298
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,560
Well, I'll tell you.
You know, if the ballerinas

299
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,480
dance across the stage in their
audition with their feet in the

300
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,280
light instead of their body in
the light, they're not going to

301
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,520
make it.
And how do you even know that?

302
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,120
Right.
So I say that today.

303
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,360
So today I say it is important
to know different disciplines.

304
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:59,760
It's important to understand at
least the basics in what people

305
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,720
are doing.
So many people are attracted to

306
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,320
this industry.
If we're going to talk about

307
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,160
lighting, they're very
interested in the design.

308
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,480
Maybe they're CAD geniuses.
Maybe they just want a program.

309
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,840
I'm not here to say those aren't
things you might want to do.

310
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,560
It's just deeper than that.
And you're going to serve

311
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,840
yourself better.
If you don't think that's

312
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,760
someone else's job, you should
figure out what they do because

313
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,360
that's going to help you and
your job.

314
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:32,800
And I, and I still see that,
Like, I still see very, you

315
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,320
know, the younger folk coming in
and I'm like, I can have this

316
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,280
beautiful thing.
It's on sky hooks.

317
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,600
It just hangs magically in the
air somehow.

318
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,960
And it's beautiful.
And I don't understand why

319
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,320
physics should apply to me.
And that's actually one of the

320
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,080
more difficult things in a
position I have is defending

321
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,800
physics.
Like, I'd love to do that for

322
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,000
you, but you know.
It's it's not going to happen.

323
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:59,360
Nobody wants to hear that.
You have to, you have to talk

324
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,400
about things, about what you can
do.

325
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,960
And that's another thing.
I have a lot of people in those

326
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,440
positions who say unfortunately,
which is a.

327
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,240
Bug word of mine, just don't
say.

328
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,440
Unfortunately, you know, giving
people news they don't want to

329
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,360
hear can be done in a better
way, right?

330
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,440
So kind of all over the place.
But I did a stint in Japan for

331
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,120
work and you just don't say no.
We used to joke that yes means

332
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,280
yes and yes means no.
And you don't say the word no.

333
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:32,240
You say what you can do, right?
And it was hard because I love,

334
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,760
honestly, I grew up loving
rules.

335
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:40,880
I loved the safety of rules and
the safety of assuming elders

336
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,360
knew what they were talking
about.

337
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,440
You know, I love that.
But it doesn't.

338
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,280
It doesn't.
Life's much more vague.

339
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,000
Life is very vague.
And you know, when you come into

340
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,560
an industry, you know, our
industry is something very

341
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,400
special.
I mean, before we called it the

342
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,160
circus, you know, and it is.
It's kind of like a circus.

343
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,680
Oh, it's still the circus.
And, you know, you're travelling

344
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,000
around, you know, I haven't
thought for quite some time.

345
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,240
I miss it, yes.
But now, you know, I love being

346
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,560
here, you know, working for
myself on the podcast and, you

347
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,640
know, working from home.
It's a fantastic way.

348
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,600
But do I still get that itchy?
B yes, I do, you know, do I

349
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,080
still want to get out there and,
you know, just be part of that

350
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,680
incredible team, which is
really, you know, what everybody

351
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,560
is when you are on the road.
When what was your first tour

352
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,120
you ever did?
So basically you you started in

353
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:41,440
theatre.
So that's where.

354
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,440
So after theatre, what was your
next jump?

355
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,680
What was your next move?
And I just would like to say I

356
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,320
feel the same way.
That's very common, right?

357
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,640
Like, I'm glad I've made the
decisions I've made, but I, I

358
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,360
think it's something you miss
once you do it, you know?

359
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,080
But like anything else, there's
positives and minuses.

360
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,200
But my, I would say my next move
was, and I have a little thing

361
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,360
here to say to folks starting
out, which is a lot of time,

362
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,520
your next opportunity comes with
the people alongside you.

363
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,400
A lot of times people think it's
going to be from a mentor and if

364
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,480
you are lucky to have one, an
elder, a leader, and yet often

365
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,960
your next opportunity is from
the person beside you.

366
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,160
So don't forget to work with the
people alongside you in the

367
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,520
cruise because honestly, that
was my next opportunity was

368
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,240
someone who I'd work with in
summer stock was going off to

369
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,320
get her masters in at NYU.
And she had been the lighting

370
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,960
designer operator at a little
theater in San Francisco.

371
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,400
And so when she finished her
undergraduate degree, she

372
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,440
reached out and said, I'm going
to school.

373
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,240
Do you want to take over this
little theater for me?

374
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,680
And I said yes.
And so that was my first

375
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,200
professional opportunity was to
make, you know, $300.00 a week

376
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,640
working Tuesday through Sunday
at the Mason St.

377
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,640
Theater, where my first
opportunity was to remount a

378
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,120
play of Greater Tuna.
And it's so funny because that

379
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,960
in college, I'm serious.
I didn't know anything about

380
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,640
being throw ratio.
I just pulled up what was it out

381
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,920
of the basement and tried it.
And if it didn't work, I just

382
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,120
swapped it out for something
else.

383
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:21,600
Seriously, that's it.
So when I first had my first

384
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,800
paying job, I got a bunch of
rental likos from the local

385
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,680
rental company and I had a crew
of two people.

386
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,200
We hung it all.
I focused what I thought was a

387
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,280
good focus at my 5 foot, 4
height.

388
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,800
OK, yeah, yeah.
So then we had a tech rehearsal

389
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,800
and all the actors, they were
just walking in and out of light

390
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,760
and I was just in trouble.
You are in trouble.

391
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,360
You are watching this rehearsal
and they're just walking in and

392
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,840
out of shadow wherever they go
and it is not going to be OK.

393
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,040
So that night I I stayed all
night.

394
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,560
I stayed all night by myself.
I do not recommend it.

395
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,960
And I struck the whole system
and loaded it into my car and

396
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,680
took it to the rehearsal.
I took it to the rental company

397
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,720
the next day and was like, can I
trade these all out for for

398
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,640
nails because the the ceiling
was like 7 foot 5 tall.

399
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,000
Like I should not have easily
goes just because I thought

400
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,400
that's what you use for a crack
wash.

401
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,840
So I certainly learned by I
learned about being throw ratio

402
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,840
for having to like rehang a
system by myself in a day, like,

403
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,240
yeah.
And it ended up working OK

404
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,520
ultimately, but that was just
like, wake up and do the work.

405
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,920
But again, though, this, this
for me goes into, OK, so there,

406
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,280
I'm not going to say it was a
mistake.

407
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,840
It was a learning, a learning
curve, let's say a very big

408
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,360
learning curve.
But before the next day, you had

409
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,400
to make something happen that
was going to work.

410
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,720
So you, you knew that you was
going to put, it wasn't like a

411
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,640
normal 9:00 to 5:00.
Well, you know, it's 5:00 now.

412
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,680
I've got to go home.
You know, I'll see you tomorrow

413
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,240
and I'll deal with it then.
You know, it's like I'm going to

414
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,880
get this done.
Well, yeah, sure.

415
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,960
I mean, sure.
You know, do the work.

416
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,880
That's another one of my things.
People.

417
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,000
Please lean in, do the work.
I can talk a lot about that, you

418
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,840
know.
I think to.

419
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:20,880
Help.
Good team.

420
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,440
You, you all have to, I believe,
you know, you have to work

421
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,040
together, but also, you know,
when, when push comes to shove,

422
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,040
like, and it really needs to be
done, yeah, you're all going to

423
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,040
step in and get it done.
Like you are all going to get it

424
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,360
done.
Sometimes I don't like that

425
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,960
attitude because, I don't know,
maybe you're overworked, you're

426
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,080
over this, you're over that,
which happens in our industry as

427
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,920
well, like any other industry.
But strong workers will

428
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,960
basically put that into it, into
what they're doing, you know, if

429
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,840
it needs to be done.
We're running at the edge of

430
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,720
failure a lot.
I mean, it seems to me that if

431
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,080
you do something like you look
at something and you're not

432
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,200
quite sure how you're going to
do it, you're proud that you

433
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,520
achieve it.
But many of my colleagues and I,

434
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,720
we choke.
We're like, OK, now they're not.

435
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,280
They're going to see it wasn't
impossible.

436
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,840
I'm like, but that's part of it.
That's part of it.

437
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,720
But, and I know you talk about
this a lot, but also exhaustion

438
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:30,800
is important and safety is
important and and finding a

439
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,840
balance, it comes back to
balance.

440
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,960
Maybe it's not achievable, maybe
there is failure.

441
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,640
Yeah, I think now, I mean, I, I
have been noticing a lot of

442
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,800
differences with different
tours.

443
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,960
So I always look at the tour
schedules and like I'm all I'm,

444
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,680
I'm always looking, I'm just
intrigued.

445
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,440
And you know, maybe I've got
friends out on a tour and I'll

446
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:53,720
be like, oh, OK, I'm going to
look.

447
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,160
And IMC, especially this year,
I'm seeing a lot more tours with

448
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,840
a lot more.
I'm not going to say downtime,

449
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,120
but maybe it's a travel day, a
back-to-back travel day

450
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,520
back-to-back.
Whereas a couple of years ago a

451
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,760
lot of the tours were just like
4 to 6 rows straight.

452
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,280
A travel day, you know, where
travel day into a day off and

453
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,040
I'd look at these and I'd be
like, that's just burnout on a

454
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:28,120
plate.
And, you know, I and, and I

455
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:33,520
would love to think that artists
have a say and people in the top

456
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,880
managements who decide the, the
schedule.

457
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,640
I would really hope to think
that they are actually listening

458
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,800
to everybody the likes of me on
here, not me as such, but you

459
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,800
know what I mean?
Like people that are voicing

460
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:54,040
their opinion about mental
health exhaustion and what

461
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,520
really, you know, we can achieve
to get the best out of people.

462
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,640
I mean, you've, you've been
touring for years.

463
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,240
Have you seen a change from what
it was then to now?

464
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,120
Was it more intense years ago
or?

465
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,720
I like that people are talking
about it, you know, I like

466
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,320
people are talking about it
because it's going to come from

467
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,760
the people.
I can't I, I would be very or

468
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,240
the artist, you know, I know
some people who work with some

469
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,840
of the classic artists and the
classic rockers don't want to do

470
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,440
5 and 6 days in a row.
They can't.

471
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,760
So I have seen a lot of touring
that's 2-3, but that's based on

472
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,520
the artist need.
I would say that it's going to

473
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,920
be driven if it gets better by
people who just don't accept the

474
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,880
work.
Where I've seen the improvement

475
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,800
is that they can't get the
people they really want if they

476
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,240
can't, like they're sitting
there boundaries.

477
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,680
But it's difficult and you're
always going to find some

478
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,240
younger people who want it bad
enough to do it.

479
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:04,040
I don't think that that I would
love to think that as well.

480
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,560
But from what I have seen, it is
either going to be artist driven

481
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,880
or it's going to be driven by
the people who only demand that.

482
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,640
And there's going to be always a
bunch of people who are willing

483
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,000
to jump through the flaming
hoop.

484
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,000
They're going to do it.
This is, this is the problem.

485
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,760
This is, you know, you've got
somebody that you know, for

486
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,400
whatever reason is like, I don't
know, say myself, I'm like, no,

487
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,240
I'm not doing that because I
know that whole schedule, I'm

488
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,320
going to be burnt out.
Like that's not good for my

489
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,600
health.
So I say no, then you're there

490
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,400
and you're like, no, I really
need the money.

491
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,800
I need this, I need that.
I'll do it, I'll do it.

492
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,920
Then that's it.
Then then the tour happens.

493
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,880
And like you said, there's so
many people that want the job

494
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,800
that I don't.
I'm not being cynical here, but

495
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,560
I don't think there'll ever be a
time when people will say no to

496
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,240
doing it.
I think they'll always find.

497
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,240
I think you're correct.
I don't think so.

498
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,800
Yeah.
You know, and so there you go.

499
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,880
You know, but.
I do think that the more I think

500
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,560
it comes from the artists, you
know, the artists, you know, I

501
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,240
don't know how much say artists
have in it because I don't.

502
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,960
But I think when they see, I
mean, even for them to perform,

503
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,920
you know, I know that if I use
so much energy being quite

504
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,680
social one day, well, the next
day I'm, I'm, I'm tired.

505
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,200
Maybe I could do 2 days, but
after three days also my

506
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,520
performance is not as it should
be, you know, So you imagine

507
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,960
you're giving your whole energy
on that stage.

508
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,080
OK, maybe the travelling, the
everything, you've got a little

509
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,680
bit of downtime.
You're not like in back in at

510
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,920
like 7:00 in the morning to load
in, but still there's PR stuff

511
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,040
going on.
There's, you know, they don't

512
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,640
just stop just because us when
we're there at the venue, we

513
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,800
don't we, you know, that we
think that they just come in

514
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,280
rocking in the afternoon.
And, you know, there's more to

515
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,960
what artists actually do as
well.

516
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,480
So the whole schedule for
everybody, I think can be very

517
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,480
intense.
I would love to see a change.

518
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,280
Yeah, I'd love to see a change.
I mean, I live in, I live in

519
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,920
Crete.
And OK, this is going by, it's

520
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,840
not just our industry, you know,
with, you know, burnouts and all

521
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,320
the rest of it.
The summer season here, it

522
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,920
starts in April, it ends in end
of October.

523
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,080
And most people do not get a day
off.

524
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,440
So there's no travel day,
there's no downtime.

525
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,160
They just work solid and they're
working extremely hard.

526
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,640
And that's not just the old one
or the one or two places.

527
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,080
That's pretty much the whole,
you know, that's just the way it

528
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,440
is here.
My husband's I'm like, that's

529
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,080
crazy.
Two days off for like 7 months,

530
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,240
you know, and he's like Sarah,
this, this is our life.

531
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,880
This is what it is.
Anyway, now they've kind of

532
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,840
it's, they've been set a law to
say that no, everybody has to

533
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:09,560
have, I think it's two days off.
And they've kind of said, OK, we

534
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,360
won't give you 2 days, we'll
give you one day.

535
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,320
I mean, because they're just
compromised with everything

536
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,720
here.
But a lot of places are actually

537
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,680
going to shut down there taverna
or bar for one day.

538
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,080
And I'm like, guys, have you not
seen how the rest of the world

539
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,480
works?
You know, you have more staff to

540
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,600
cover.
So then you're giving people the

541
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,000
days off.
I know you can't do that on a

542
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,040
tour, but it's just planning as
well.

543
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,960
And, you know, just to close
your whole business up because

544
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,400
you know, you're meant to have a
day off.

545
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,480
But at least they're kind of
moving in a direction where you

546
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,280
know, they're they're saying to
each other, well, actually we do

547
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,120
need a day off.
You know, you know, the, the,

548
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,360
the higher ups are saying people
do need a day off.

549
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,920
Yeah, anyway.
It's going to have to come from

550
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,880
a lot of different ways.
It's going to have to come from

551
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,800
the acknowledgement that a
rested person is more productive

552
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,200
person.
If we're talking about business,

553
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,800
that is what it is.
It's business, you know, and,

554
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:13,520
and I definitely started off at
the more creative artistic

555
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,320
portion, which I adore and still
do.

556
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,480
But also I have found business
fascinating because if you

557
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,360
understand business, you can get
more of what you want because

558
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,440
that's what this is based in.
So I know plenty of creative

559
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,080
people who are like, I don't
need to deal with that.

560
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,960
That's others.
And I'm like, OK, I mean, I

561
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,120
understand, I can understand
where that is coming from, but

562
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,640
that is you're not serving
yourself.

563
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,000
Like that's not going to help
you get to your goal if you

564
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,440
don't, you know, and some people
are better at it than others.

565
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,920
There's some people, that's very
true.

566
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,680
But then find your friends, find
your business friends then.

567
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,280
And that is one of the things I
would say today that I see is

568
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,880
better that I had a hard time
with in my career was the

569
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,200
business knowledge.
I did not have enough business

570
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,360
knowledge to take some of the
opportunity I was offered.

571
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,440
When I started getting more
recognized in the industry.

572
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,400
Like there were some
opportunities I lost, not

573
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,600
because they didn't want me,
because I was a creative force

574
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,760
and that I was good and
recommended by really good

575
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,840
people.
It was because they called me

576
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,679
and said, am I talking to Kim
Martin's secretary?

577
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,840
And I'd be on the phone going,
am I supposed to have a

578
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,400
secretary?
Like, you know, is this the

579
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,280
business of Martin Lighting
Design?

580
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,120
And I was all like, you know,
yeah, Like I didn't know.

581
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,239
And I think now with people
being asked to be their own

582
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,920
businesses, LLCS, I mean, that
is a certain hardship for some

583
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,719
folk, But I also believe that.
And I heard Chris Lyle talk

584
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,920
about his what is it that
touring career workshop,

585
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,159
Amazing, amazing.
Take a look at that.

586
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:49,199
Talk about the finances.
Like people when they come talk

587
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,199
to you and they want to be
mentored, they're they're like,

588
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,080
well, how do I get to be a
lighting designer or a

589
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,040
programmer?
And those are wonderful goals.

590
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,200
Right.
But but you're thinking in such

591
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,920
a narrow focus of what that
definition is.

592
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:06,640
Yeah, I mean that those are the
things that I like seeing.

593
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,040
And that's it.
Again, like we said, it was

594
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,440
about it's about talking.
It's about, I mean, I do a lot

595
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,160
of oh, I do all this all the
social media for like geese of

596
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,520
gear.
And you know, I always like to I

597
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,440
go on to factoring career
workshop.

598
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:26,440
I've had a name changed now, so
it's now Echo Live and, and so I

599
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,520
do a lot of things.
I say a lot of things at least

600
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,320
once or once a week, once twice
a week.

601
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,040
If they've got an event coming
up, if they've got something, I

602
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,480
put it on our socials, they're
on our website and stuff.

603
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,960
So more people can be aware.
Because I wasn't aware, you

604
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,360
know, even a year ago, I didn't
know that Chris was doing this.

605
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,600
And then we had him on the
podcast and he started talking.

606
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,560
I was like, what?
That's amazing.

607
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,000
And you know, now, you know,
again, he's going from strength

608
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,000
to strength because he's got
great people that believe in

609
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,360
him.
Same as Laurie, you know, Laurie

610
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,120
Rubenstein behind the scenes,
everything she does.

611
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,880
I met her for the first time at
LDII love it.

612
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,720
I absolutely love it.
Just giving the opportunity, you

613
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:18,640
know, if you're an LD learning
the business side of things.

614
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,440
So you have got more of an
awareness of everything is only

615
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,120
going to make you a better a
better person.

616
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,840
Well, it does help you.
It does help you.

617
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:37,840
And so you were, you were asking
about my path, I think touring.

618
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,280
And that's, you know, certainly
a focus of these talks.

619
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,680
I saw a Don Henley concert and
it was Park hands and color

620
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,120
changers.
And they moved trust pods like

621
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,360
they didn't have moving lights,
but they had like moving

622
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,040
structure.
And I had found out that Steve

623
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,280
Cohen was the LD.
And I went down to the front of

624
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,640
house and I was like, Mr. Cohen,
can you can I want to do what

625
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:01,840
you do?
Can you talk to me?

626
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,880
And he was very gracious.
He was very gracious.

627
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,880
And the guys at front of house
were laughing.

628
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,960
They're like, she's calling you
Mr. Cohen.

629
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,240
Ha, ha, ha.
They were like giving him a bad

630
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:14,920
time and, and he came and spoke
to me and that was the first

631
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,240
time he said, I don't work for a
company, I work for myself.

632
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,040
And once again, being someone
who had been very structured,

633
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:26,000
you go to school, you get the
opportunity, maybe you become

634
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,520
the lighting assistant for a
rock'n'roll designer.

635
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,440
Like, I didn't know that wasn't
a position, right?

636
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,600
I didn't know that rock'n'roll
lighting designers didn't have

637
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,880
design firms.
You know, you don't know.

638
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,000
And so that's all.
All I could really take from

639
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,360
that conversation was that he
works for himself.

640
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,840
And I'm like, oh, great.
Well, how am I going to do that?

641
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,080
How am I going to work for
myself to get this job?

642
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,720
And I heard many interviews
where people were kind of kind

643
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,480
of slided into this.
But I really knew what I wanted

644
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,760
to do.
And it took me years.

645
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080
It took me years to figure out
how I was going to get to do

646
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,800
something I wanted to do.
So do you remember the like, the

647
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,800
like the moment you knew that
lighting you know was going to

648
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:19,440
be your career like?
I In college, I realized that

649
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,840
the technical theater was a
career.

650
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,560
I realized that one could
actually make a job because I

651
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,440
was in theater for fun.
I was hanging out with my

652
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,200
friends, dancing and courses.
I never took it seriously as

653
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,680
that career.
So when I took it seriously as a

654
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,000
career was first the realization
that you can make money doing

655
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,920
it.
I was the college stage manager,

656
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,080
so I had keys and would let the
the dance companies in on the

657
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,480
weekends.
And I've made a little money.

658
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:46,920
So I realized there was a career
there.

659
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,080
But that concert, the Don Henley
concert, was when I was like, I

660
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,200
don't, yeah.
Because I had already at that

661
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,360
moment figured out that theater
lighting was not going to be a

662
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,960
living wage.
I don't even know if it is now.

663
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:03,640
I don't even know if theater
lighting design is a living wage

664
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,000
thing.
I mean, people I know do it, but

665
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,160
they have to do multiple
theater.

666
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,640
They often have more support
outside of their income, you

667
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,560
know, and that is a thing too.
You know, I did not make a

668
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,240
living wage until I was in.
My gosh.

669
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,240
That's kind of why I got off
tour because I couldn't sustain

670
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:25,920
a living wage just touring.
I couldn't do it.

671
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,720
And so no.
Oh.

672
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,920
Wow.
No.

673
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,400
And even if you get paid, you
know, at the time, I think, and

674
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,320
this was in the mid 90s, I was
getting paid $1000 a week to

675
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,440
tour.
But that's, you know, and then

676
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,120
if you only then that's great.
And you might have $4000 in your

677
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,640
bank when you get out, but three
months later that's gone.

678
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,000
So what are you doing, you know,
So.

679
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,480
Yeah, but after college I did
the little theater circuit,

680
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,320
decided that I wanted to do
concerts and my first

681
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,400
opportunity there was a once
again a friend working alongside

682
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,680
me, moved to the entertainment
department at the Fairmont

683
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:15,800
Hotel, and the Fairmont Hotel at
the time had the Venetian Room

684
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,760
and the Venetian Room played
Tuesday through Sunday, 8 shows

685
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,040
a week.
With things like the Mamas and

686
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,840
the Papas and the, you know,
that kind of genre at them.

687
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,920
And they had, and I got hired to
be the lighting person there.

688
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,160
And that was the first time I
lit concerts.

689
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:38,280
Was that right?
36 Park hands, 2 scene preset

690
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,440
running on one side, sitting up
on a with a little follow spot

691
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520
between my legs.
I'd be running the follow spot

692
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,640
like this.
I'd be doing the 2 scene preset

693
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,480
over here and that was my first
concert experience was doing

694
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,120
that.
And how long was you?

695
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,440
You know, not that long because
I had been trying to tour for so

696
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,720
long and, and during that time
period, I realized that I wasn't

697
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:06,160
going to get that in San
Francisco because there wasn't

698
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,000
anything starting there.
There wasn't anything starting

699
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,400
there.
Like even now I, I hear some

700
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,400
people maybe getting that job
through working with their

701
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,720
friends who were in a band who
made it big.

702
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:20,160
But that's like, you know, very
niche.

703
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,520
And then basically was told, I
was told by some of the union

704
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,680
guys there that you should come
join the union, Kim, because

705
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,640
you're just not going to get
touring here.

706
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,440
And then I was like, OK, so now
I have to move.

707
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,520
So I'm not really familiar
because we don't have the union

708
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:40,000
here, but so the union are they
do they guide you or like?

709
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,160
No, no, they're, they're,
they're a labor service, right?

710
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,880
They're a labor service.
But you get, you know, you can

711
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,960
make a living wage there.
You can get benefits, you can

712
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,800
get a pension, right.
But what you're doing is you're

713
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,960
serving productions as their
stage crew, which is great.

714
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,400
But that's just not what I
wanted to do.

715
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,400
I was very focused.
I wasn't going to get a touring

716
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,320
lighting job in the union.
No.

717
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,800
So when, let's say when, when
did you get, when did you get

718
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,960
your first break in into
lighting and touring?

719
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,680
Like was it after this?
So what?

720
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:21,760
What happened next for you?
Well, because education was a

721
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,800
path, I knew it was a theater
path.

722
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,760
I knew they probably didn't have
a lot to say to me about concert

723
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,480
touring.
But I had had a friend who was

724
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,360
just finishing up the master's
program at UCLA and he said,

725
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,320
Kim, if you need to move to LA,
just come down here.

726
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,400
It's only two years.
You can get a master's.

727
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,640
You can be the teaching
assistant and I can introduce

728
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,600
you to the, you know, you're
going to have to get yourself

729
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,320
in, but I can certainly say, you
know, I could be a character

730
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:47,920
reference.
I know you're a hard worker.

731
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,160
I can, I can bring you, you
know, bring you to the attention

732
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,760
of the admissions board.
So I went and I applied to a two

733
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,920
year master's in technical
theater at UCLA and was accepted

734
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,720
and was accepted as a teaching
assistant.

735
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,200
You know, you know, $900 a month
to teach the lab classes,

736
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,640
meaning the graduate lighting
teacher would teach the once a

737
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:18,320
week in class lesson.
And I would then take that team

738
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:24,600
and load in lighting for the
plays and, and I got to design

739
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,120
some shows.
But what that really taught me,

740
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,360
I think was how to lead others
was how to get a bunch of actors

741
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,920
to load in a letting rig right,
right there, people who didn't

742
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,560
want to be there and get them to
decide why they should want to

743
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,880
be there.
And please wear closed toed

744
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,680
shoes and please, you know, do
this.

745
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,800
And so I think looking back, you
know, even more than the some

746
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,440
design experience I got there,
I, I got the experience of

747
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,160
leading Cruise because that's a
thing, you know, a lot of

748
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,160
people, even they can be a
really good production

749
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,040
electrician, think they want to
not production or just an

750
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,680
electrician and they think they
can do it better.

751
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,720
And they're kind of floored when
it's their turn to be a leader.

752
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,960
I mean, that transition is not
necessarily easy.

753
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,960
I've known many really good
electricians who have a hard

754
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,080
time making the next step to
being the lead, you know, So

755
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,440
that was helpful, but they had
nothing to go.

756
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:24,000
Go ahead.
Sorry.

757
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,040
No, no.
No, no, you go.

758
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,200
No.
I'm hate to.

759
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,240
Listen to you.
Yeah, they, you know, they the

760
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,200
theater really didn't have a lot
to say to me about that career

761
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,320
that I wanted because they
didn't have that.

762
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,560
There was 1 scenic teacher.
She was lovely and she knew Jim

763
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,880
Loanahan, who is the LD of Tom
Petty.

764
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:49,280
They were in church together and
she talked to him and asked if

765
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,880
he would talk to me and
basically through her he said

766
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,320
the only thing I would have to
say to her is she needs to go

767
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,840
work in the shop.
The only advice I have for her

768
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,160
there's nothing I can do to help
her.

769
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,160
I don't need an assistant.
She needs to Co work at a

770
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,280
rock'n'roll shop and that.
Was the advice.

771
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,960
Yes.
And I had to know somebody to

772
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,560
get that.
And I was luckily I met Carol

773
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,680
Dodds.
Now she isn't, you know, she's

774
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,840
an icon in the industry and I
was lucky to meet her through

775
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,120
her through a, a roommate,
right?

776
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,720
And I told her what I wanted to
do and she also said you need to

777
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:28,480
go work in the shop.
So she introduced me to Bob

778
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,200
Hughes at Show Lights at the
time, and I got an interview to

779
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,960
go work at the shop.
So now I've got this, you know,

780
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,800
this master's degree and I've
been doing theater and I've done

781
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,640
some little bit of rock'n'roll
work with a park and rig and I'm

782
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,000
applying to work for $6.00 an
hour in the shop.

783
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,880
And I'm being told do not tell
anybody on the floor that you've

784
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,320
had any experience.
You're going to go out there,

785
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,800
you're going to say you're my
ex-girlfriend Carol Dodd

786
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,320
recommended you for a job and I
have a floor sweeping job in the

787
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,200
shop.
Like you really need to go out

788
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:06,000
there and just be like, OK, it's
a job and you just need to do as

789
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,160
you're told.
And I, I picked it up quick.

790
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,240
Amazing.
I love it.

791
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,760
It's amazing how quickly Kim
picked that up.

792
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:16,440
Just like oh.
My God, she's.

793
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:18,680
She's such a she gets it so
quickly.

794
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,040
It's a natural, you know.
That was the advice though,

795
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,120
going to the shop and pretend
you don't know anything and, and

796
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,200
So what, what reason was was
that?

797
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,800
I mean, I can, I can think of a
lot of answers to my own

798
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,560
questions on that, but why do
you think that was your advice

799
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,280
given?
Oh, he said it immediately.

800
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:44,360
He said most, not all, but I
would say 95% of everyone doing

801
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,880
this has been doing it for years
as a trade.

802
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,000
And they got into it because
they're musicians are because

803
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,400
they needed a warehouse job and
they're very good at it.

804
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,200
And they're going to think
you're a no, nothing know it

805
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:57,840
all.
If you go in there and tell them

806
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,240
you know something because
you've been at school, it is not

807
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:02,560
going to go well for you.
So that was great advice.

808
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,520
The advice was like, if you go
out there and pretend you know

809
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,760
anything, they will think you
know nothing and it is in your

810
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,400
best interest.
Right?

811
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,000
And, you know, if we're going to
talk about gender, yeah, I was

812
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,400
the only woman on the shop
floor.

813
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,600
So, you know, I think you need
to go out there and just work.

814
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,360
Do the work.
Once again, do the work, Learn

815
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,080
something, right?
Don't.

816
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,800
And I actually think that's,
that still applies now, you

817
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,600
know, going to something, you
may have lots of experience.

818
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:37,160
I mean, even for me in various
jobs, I, if I haven't worked for

819
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,960
the company, I would be, I'm
more than happy to start at the

820
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,440
bottom and work my way back up
again.

821
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:49,640
OK, Like in certain scenarios,
because some people might, might

822
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,040
know me in a certain industry or
whatever.

823
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,960
But then when I jumped, like
when I jumped into music, nobody

824
00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:01,000
knew me.
And that really was a a change

825
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,520
for me.
I'm coming from, I mentioned

826
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,480
before coming from at Formula
One, where, you know, really I

827
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,760
had, I had a great career there,
you know, and everybody knew me

828
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,480
and every, you know, and I, that
was my, my thing.

829
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,120
I left that didn't know what to
do.

830
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,400
And then coming into the music,
I knew I could do certain jobs,

831
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,320
but nobody had heard of me.
Nope.

832
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,280
Like, you know, and I did get,
excuse me, I did get some like

833
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,320
hard times from certain people
when I was like, oh, well, you

834
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:30,920
know, I can do it.
What do you mean you could do

835
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,320
that?
You, you, you just you, you've

836
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,880
never worked in the industry.
And I, and I've got that.

837
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,040
So that for me, if I, if someone
has told me basically shut your

838
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,320
mouth, do the work.
You'll you know you'll, you'll

839
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,760
probably go a lot further
faster.

840
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,440
Yeah.
So I, I did that for a while and

841
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:54,200
once again, my next opportunity
was from someone alongside it

842
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,800
was from actually an
undergraduate student who had

843
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,640
graduated from UCLA, was working
at Strand and met Jeff Rabbits.

844
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,560
You know, she met Jeff Rabbits
because he was, she was training

845
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,520
people on the newest Strand
consoles and he was there to

846
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,040
look into the newest Strand
consoles to possibly use it for

847
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,160
a project.
And he really liked her and

848
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,240
said, look, and this is
fascinating.

849
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,200
He goes, I need a lighting
assistant.

850
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,920
And she was like, I'm going to
stay here, but I know who you

851
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,320
need to talk to.
So I was fortunate enough to

852
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:29,800
come home one day after a long,
you know, freelance crew day and

853
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,360
to have Jeff Rabbits on my phone
saying, hey, you want to come be

854
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,200
my lighting assistant for sure.
Because he had a theater

855
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,480
background and he knew what to
do with an assistant.

856
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,320
And that is not so this like
Unicorn position kind of

857
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,960
appeared like come talk to me
about this and I did.

858
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,560
That's amazing.
And how long was you with Jeff

859
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:55,040
for a.
Couple of years I think, and I

860
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,960
learned so much from Jeff,
right, because before that I

861
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:05,200
understood lighting washes.
But he is was a concert

862
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,880
designer.
So even with park hands, he was

863
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:13,560
the one who showed me about
about beams.

864
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,920
He was the first one to talk to
me about it's the air pattern in

865
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,360
the air that is integral to the
rock'n'roll lighting look, you

866
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,400
know, focusing themes, talk
about color, talk about timing,

867
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,080
talk about follow spots.
That's what I learned there.

868
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,600
And I was a paperwork jockey
there.

869
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,880
You know, I did paperwork and
got sandwiches and stayed up all

870
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:39,440
night watching Mike Hall, a
wonderful programmer from

871
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,600
Morpheus and Jeff Rabbit's
design shows, you know, and I

872
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,320
was there all night to go get
coffees and I learned a lot

873
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,880
watching.
And I, you know, he would go out

874
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,040
for the first two weeks on a
tour and take me with him and

875
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,480
then turn it over to his
lighting directors.

876
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,040
And that's the position I
wanted.

877
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,680
I wanted to be one of his
lighting directors.

878
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,600
So, you know, I'm all like, Oh
my God, I am so close to running

879
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,440
a concert now.
You know, it's been, you know,

880
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:13,560
five years and I'm close, right?
So, but and that wasn't my path

881
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,760
either because his shows were so
large.

882
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,080
He it's not that he wasn't
necessarily open to it, but it

883
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:24,760
was kind of, you know, I don't
see you walking right into a

884
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,440
stadium show, Kim Right.
And and it was disappointing,

885
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,160
but fair, right?
And he also said something which

886
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,880
is going to sound harsh, but he
said it is very, very dangerous

887
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,120
to recommend people because you
will always be associated with

888
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,280
whoever you recommend and it is
dangerous.

889
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,440
I agree.
I, I actually, I, I, I've

890
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,840
learned the hard way.
I don't recommend unless I'm

891
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,160
really, I don't know if I unless
I can really see something

892
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:58,520
extremely special and I I don't
recommend anybody anymore.

893
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,400
It is dangerous.
And he told me that is very,

894
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,680
very dangerous.
And his needs changed when he

895
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,880
became Moody rabbits for the
kind of assistant he needed.

896
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:14,520
And I was doing freelance and,
and part of my story is the

897
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:19,080
diversity because I spent so
long like I really wanted to be

898
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,200
a concert lighting designer and
I achieved that goal, but it

899
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,160
took me years.
And through that time, I was

900
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:29,640
able to pay my rent by filling
in all sorts of jobs in Los

901
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,360
Angeles because there's a lot of
work there.

902
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,160
So I was able to work in
television.

903
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,600
I was an on call lighting
director for live news at KTLA,

904
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:45,240
live talk shows.
That was a job, you know, And so

905
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:47,840
I got to saw that side.
Do you think it took you longer

906
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,560
being a woman, a lady in the
industry?

907
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:56,920
Or yeah, 100%, yeah, 100% like
I'm yes.

908
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,640
And and The thing is, is at the
time, and I know that it can be

909
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:07,640
discouraging, but I would like
to say that some of the I got

910
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,080
patted on the head and told that
touring was not a place and was

911
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,920
not great for women.
Like don't do it.

912
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,680
Like, I know you want to do it
and you're really good, but you

913
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,120
should run the shop or you
should, you know, stage manage

914
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:26,280
something like they, they like
when I was starving full time

915
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,200
offer a full time jobs were
offered to me.

916
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:29,720
And I was like, I don't want to
do that.

917
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,440
I thank you, but I really want
to do this.

918
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:35,560
And looking, I was disappointed
at the time, but looking at it,

919
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,960
these were people who were
training me and they were

920
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:44,480
honestly concerned about the,
shall we say, the environment of

921
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,320
touring.
Because honestly, in the late

922
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,640
80s, early 90's, the environment
of touring, you know, they were

923
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,040
not wrong.
I hate to say it.

924
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,000
They weren't wrong necessarily
that that wasn't necessarily an

925
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,080
environment for women.
You know, it's a little better

926
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,680
now, but but that wasn't an
environment they did.

927
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,120
They were concerned that it
could become abusive and they

928
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,520
didn't necessarily say that, but
I think that was part of it.

929
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,440
It wasn't like we don't want
girls, although that was said to

930
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,560
my face.
I got put in a crew once and the

931
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,120
crew chief came in and said
who's my crew?

932
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,720
And I was on it.
I was excited.

933
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,880
This was going to be, I was
going to be on the crew, but it

934
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,200
was going to be my first
travelling show and I got

935
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,880
whipped right off that list.
He was like, no girls and took

936
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,200
me off.
And that's harsh.

937
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,320
Yeah, that's harsh though.
Oh, my goodness.

938
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,520
I I couldn't imagine.
Well, yeah, you couldn't imagine

939
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,880
that happening now things have
changed.

940
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,760
I mean, we're still a minority.
This is the best time.

941
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,440
I mean, it doesn't mean that
there can't be improvement, but

942
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,920
this is the best time, you know?
And there's plenty of us who

943
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,720
have gone through this, you
know, there's all sorts of

944
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:52,880
names.
I'm sure you're talking to

945
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,600
people.
And as there are more, there

946
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,680
will be more.
Well, I mean Carol, she was

947
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,040
meant to actually come and be a
Dino.

948
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,000
So Carol Dodds, I haven't met
her or spoken to, but she was

949
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,760
meant to come on and and be but
just being to just the way.

950
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,120
And then, of course, I was
reading up on reading up on

951
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,360
everything.
And, you know, these Patty

952
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,560
Thurston, you know, yeah, that
just these are the legends that,

953
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:24,400
you know, really the the the
handful, the sassy strongness of

954
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,840
this.
And you, I mean, really Kim,

955
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,640
like you knew what you wanted to
do.

956
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,400
You was going to get there.
You was knocked back, got back

957
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,400
up again, knocked back, got back
up again.

958
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,560
And that is just, I mean, that's
something to be proud of.

959
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:44,440
And to now be able to tell
everybody your story, like,

960
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,320
yeah, I think it's.
Actually kind of nice yes again,

961
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,320
for whomever might be
interested.

962
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,680
It was it's nice to be able to
tell the story because today,

963
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,040
you know, I'm not going to be
reading people my resume.

964
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,040
I'm going to be all like, how
can I help you?

965
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:04,440
And, and I, I have also been
even now questioned by some

966
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,360
people in the industry about my
knowledge.

967
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:07,720
I get that.
I still get it.

968
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:09,960
I still get it.
I still get people like, well,

969
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,120
they don't know, right?
They don't know.

970
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,480
So you have to just, you know,
there's a little bit of what is

971
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,600
your goal?
Sometimes people might ask,

972
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,320
well, how, how do you get
through that?

973
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,800
Like how does that not stop you
or make you negative?

974
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,520
Because I'm not, I love this
industry and I love the people.

975
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,440
And how do you keep that from
making yourself, you know,

976
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,520
disgruntled or cynical, you
know, how do you fight that?

977
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,960
And it doesn't serve my goal.
And that's what I want to say.

978
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,720
I have goals even now, you know,
I'm a little bit driven.

979
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:49,160
So if it doesn't go to my goal,
I just come back around, you

980
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,160
know, and and that also speaks
in to our gender in this

981
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,480
industry.
Like I've had some really good

982
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,000
advice for men working in the
industry talking about, you

983
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,680
know, how to address difficult
situation.

984
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,040
And I've had to tell them more
than once.

985
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,640
Like that's great, you can talk
to other men like that, but I

986
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,240
cannot, I cannot, I do not get
the same result.

987
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,040
And that this is not in just
this business, this isn't every

988
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,000
business.
Guys are able and proud to be

989
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,600
strong with each other, but
bossy, bitchy.

990
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,840
I'm like, you don't hear guys
getting called that and it's

991
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:28,160
real quick and easy.
So it's like, how do you appeal?

992
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,080
You know, what is your goal?
That's what gets me through what

993
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,280
is my goal?
Like if I need to take the

994
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:39,120
blame, if I need to say sure and
come back around later, you

995
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,840
know, I can't tell you how many
times I've gone, oh, yeah, sure.

996
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,440
And then come back around later
and ask the same question again.

997
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,160
And people are like, I thought
we had this answer.

998
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,360
And I'm like, no, I'm just
checking.

999
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:51,960
Yeah.
Hi.

1000
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:57,000
What do you think?
You know, one taking the blame

1001
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,320
if I say this all the time, you
know, own up to well, two ways

1002
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,440
for doing that, yes, OK, I'll
take the blame.

1003
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,160
And I've done that before when I
know it's clearly not me, which

1004
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:11,080
maybe I should or I shouldn't.
But then later on, say the

1005
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,200
person whose fault it is, you
know, I've kind of gone up and

1006
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:15,400
they've gone.
Yeah.

1007
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,880
You know, it wasn't, it wasn't
Sarah or, you know, whatever.

1008
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,960
Like he's been.
I love, I love, I love your head

1009
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:26,440
movement of Yep, you know, like
I know.

1010
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:28,760
And I think it's.
Hard.

1011
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,040
These are hard things and you
have to relearn them.

1012
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,480
You might think you have it and
then all of a sudden you have

1013
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,560
to.
You know, self-awareness is key.

1014
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,080
You know, I, I've done a lot of
work on self-awareness, just

1015
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,520
knowing who I am.
And when people ask for advice,

1016
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,080
that's what I want to say.
It's very personal.

1017
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,720
Like the best advice I have ever
gotten is tailored to my

1018
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,640
personality.
And these things might not be

1019
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,200
the same for others.
Like early on in my career, I

1020
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:01,000
was asked by my boss to give a
crew chief some information and

1021
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,880
he was in the middle of solving
something that could have been

1022
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,480
show stopping.
And I didn't know that.

1023
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,400
But I just took, I just did what
I was told and gave him this

1024
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,840
information and he blew up in my
face, blew up in my face.

1025
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,200
Who was I?
Why was I giving him this

1026
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,800
information?
I obviously didn't know or

1027
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,640
should be involved in this
because I couldn't tell that

1028
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,200
he's trying to save the show.
And just in front of everybody,

1029
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:28,400
just just like just top of his
lungs, huge man.

1030
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,840
And I instantly teared up.
And that's horrifying because

1031
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,640
when women do that, I'm not
crying because you're I'm not

1032
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,240
crying.
I want to put AI want to put a

1033
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,800
pencil in your neck.
OK, But but honestly, the

1034
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,880
reaction is, oh, now we've got a
crying woman and we're done.

1035
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,280
Nobody's going to talk to you
now.

1036
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,240
You couldn't take it.
And I talked to a friend of mine

1037
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,040
and one of my best advice there
was she was like, you need to

1038
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,200
toughen up.
He wasn't mean to you.

1039
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:57,880
He was being an asshole.
And if you don't know the

1040
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,040
difference, you're not going to
make it.

1041
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:05,120
So you need to disassociate
yourself from that.

1042
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,920
And you have to be brave.
You have to be all like you

1043
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,840
know.
And so many people have said

1044
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,840
that you cannot control what
they do.

1045
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,960
You can only control what you
how you react.

1046
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,200
And if you need to take a
minute, you can.

1047
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,480
OK, I'm going to take a minute
walk around the block now and

1048
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,960
calm down.
But that's usually.

1049
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,760
The best response, it's like,
wow.

1050
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:33,120
And now I have had some of that
even and I just stopped talking

1051
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,280
and my answer is like, I don't
say sorry anymore.

1052
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,320
When I first started doing this,
it was all like, could you

1053
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,480
please and thank you?
And I'm sorry.

1054
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,240
And I thought that was being
polite.

1055
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,680
And I was shown again and again
how annoying that was to cruise

1056
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,040
to leaders.
They don't want to hear your

1057
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,120
sorries.
So I say sorry for nothing.

1058
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:58,240
I will say I can hear how that's
concerning and be honest about

1059
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,040
it.
I can hear why that's upsetting,

1060
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,400
you know, to you like I can hear
that right, But that doesn't

1061
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,720
mean that right?
Maybe it's new information,

1062
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,440
maybe a decision was made based
on new information and back once

1063
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,480
again, also to communicating.
There's so many different ways

1064
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,840
to communicate now.
I cannot tell you how many

1065
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,840
people I would ask to pick up
the phone and have a

1066
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,120
conversation.
People are blame, OK?

1067
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,480
They can be blame avoidance.
They can be communication

1068
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,720
avoidance, right?
And that doesn't serve them.

1069
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,800
So that's the other.
So that's, I think how I get

1070
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,480
through is just like, well, what
is my goal?

1071
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,320
Like what am I trying to achieve
here?

1072
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,640
And that can help me.
Also when people maybe have a

1073
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,400
reaction, you're wondering where
that comes from.

1074
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,040
Roger Pullis at the Felix office
said something wonderful and he

1075
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,360
said people are just trying to
keep their job.

1076
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,320
So if you get a comment from
someone and you're like, where

1077
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:59,960
does that come from?
Put in they're trying to keep

1078
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:01,280
their job.
Look at that optic.

1079
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,840
It's the optic that they're
trying to show someone.

1080
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,000
Well, I did this right.
I couldn't help it, you know?

1081
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,800
So you know, little little bits
of things over time that that

1082
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,600
add into how you can take a
beat.

1083
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,080
It's taking a beat.
It's taking it's making your

1084
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,160
character, like you say, toughen
up, get stronger.

1085
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:29,640
And I've seen it by being the
other end of the person that oh,

1086
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,520
sorry.
Oh yes, I'll oh, please, yeah,

1087
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,280
thank you.
Oh yeah, this that I have been

1088
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,640
that person and again, learned
the hard way.

1089
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:43,400
And also it ends up being that
it's not sincere when when you

1090
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,000
when you are that person as
well.

1091
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,720
Oh, no, that's so very true.
Right.

1092
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,640
Because what you really want to
say is, you know, that's.

1093
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:51,640
Yeah, it's.
True.

1094
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,120
So, you know, there's like, you
know, you can say in different

1095
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:59,920
ways you can for me, sometimes
the best thing you need to to do

1096
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:04,240
is not say anything.
That's so much fun because you

1097
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:08,440
know, I I get to work at home a
lot, which is lovely and

1098
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,760
sometimes I'll get fired up
about something and honestly,

1099
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,680
when I get fired up about
things, it's because I care.

1100
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,440
I get a little stressed out.
You know, this industry is so

1101
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,360
last minute.
There's some things that need to

1102
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:22,440
get hit to be done, and it gets
left to the last minute so

1103
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,320
often.
And I'll I tell my husband like,

1104
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,720
Oh my gosh, like this happened
and I want to say this.

1105
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,320
And he's lovely.
He's such a good sideman for me

1106
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,080
because he'll go or you can just
say nothing.

1107
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:36,560
Like I'm going to say this.
It's so clever.

1108
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,080
It's so funny.
It's getting my point across.

1109
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,680
And he's like, yeah, no, I mean,
you can tell me, honey, or you

1110
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,800
can write the e-mail.
Just don't put the two.

1111
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,600
Don't fill in the two portion,
right.

1112
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,600
That makes you feel better.
Just let it out.

1113
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,440
You go ahead.
I've also had to learn.

1114
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,560
Yeah, I've also had to learn
that recounting it can just

1115
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,560
stress you out again.
Doesn't always, you know.

1116
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,360
And, and sometimes as well, less
is more.

1117
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,920
I know that's that's another big
one for me.

1118
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:09,160
You know, you can go into a big
explanation.

1119
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,440
You can say exactly why this and
why actually you just go to the

1120
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,640
point A to B.
This is what this that's it.

1121
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:21,280
And it's edit almost.
Every one of my emails, yeah,

1122
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,680
yeah, I looked at that.
I'm like, OK, now say it in

1123
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,520
three sentences because that's
all people read on their emails

1124
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,760
anyway, by the way.
So if you if you have more than

1125
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,800
10 sentences on your e-mail,
don't assume people friend that.

1126
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,800
I mean, people like at the
beginning, you know, I'd be

1127
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,840
introducing myself and, you
know, saying that I'm like, like

1128
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,360
helping Marcel out, Excuse me.
And I'll be and then you go

1129
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,200
Sarah and goes, nobody's going
to read that.

1130
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,000
So now it's like, hey, you want
to come on the show next week?

1131
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,000
Like it's so blunt.
And so and we get more people

1132
01:04:53,000 --> 01:05:00,680
that way from like my big high.
And I mean, there's a place for

1133
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,840
it, but in business, certainly
just like, no.

1134
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,560
You know, I mean, yes, I like
giving as much information

1135
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,520
because I think, well, actually,
you know, the more information

1136
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:13,440
that's there, you know, I'm
literally covering everything.

1137
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,600
However, at the same time, I
also think even sometimes it's

1138
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,080
best to filter filter
information you know little

1139
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,440
stages of of of what's needed,
or whatever it might be.

1140
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:28,440
That's a very good advice as
well, Like, like answer the

1141
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,720
questions that are being asked
to view and, and, and you know,

1142
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,440
maybe maybe ask one additional
question or something even

1143
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,560
though you have a list.
Yeah, that's very good too.

1144
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,760
Just like people.
It's also really good when in

1145
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,520
crewing, to be honest.
That's another thing that I do

1146
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,560
as well.
You know, in, in the job

1147
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,440
descriptions, people are like,
do you have production

1148
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:48,640
electricians?
Do you have programmers?

1149
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:52,480
Do you have crew people?
And so, you know, at Felix, you

1150
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,160
kind of, I mean, you run your
own business through the

1151
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,320
company.
So I am responsible for the

1152
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,800
inventory system, the pricing,
the crewing, the sub rentals,

1153
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:06,240
the just the whole process.
And in crewing, you kind of

1154
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:07,680
can't let them know everything
upfront.

1155
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,160
In a way you kind of kind of
lead them in, right?

1156
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,720
Like like you give the basic
idea, Hi, it's this position,

1157
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,560
it's this place is these hours.
And then you just wait and just

1158
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:22,360
you know, because not every job
is the one they want to do, you

1159
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,280
know, and you have to learn
about having a team who are

1160
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:26,800
like, you got to take some for
the team.

1161
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,000
And then I honestly do try to
get people, you know, people who

1162
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,880
have done those things for me.
They're going to be first on my

1163
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,920
list for the sweet gigs because
there are a lot of them, but

1164
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,480
there's also a lot of like show
up at midnight and loaded out

1165
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,760
jobs too.
And I think that goes to, for

1166
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,320
me, it goes to loyalty on a lot
of things.

1167
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,800
I mean, when I when I joined, I
was always very loyal to a

1168
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,600
company or a person.
I'm very loyal.

1169
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,200
Yeah.
And for me it's, you know, like

1170
01:06:55,480 --> 01:07:01,480
if you treat me like, well,
nice, like respected back, I

1171
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,920
will do anything for you.
If there's that rubbish job that

1172
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,480
really, you know, nobody's going
to do it.

1173
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:12,400
And you say, Sarah, you know,
it's shitty, but can you, if I

1174
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,600
respect that person because I
like them and I know that

1175
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:16,920
they're a good person, I'll do
it.

1176
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,160
I'll do it.
And I'll say, Yep, I'm going to

1177
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:22,840
do it for you, you know, But I
know not that I'm doing it for

1178
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:27,080
something else in return, but I
know in return we're kind of

1179
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,400
bonding a bit better for future
things to happen, you know?

1180
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,440
No.
And I, and I, I think anything

1181
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,680
else that's wonderful.
And also sometimes it's balanced

1182
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:42,760
with understanding that crews
aren't always available to me.

1183
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,280
So that's another thing about
being an LLC is people are their

1184
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,880
own business.
And if they don't take a job

1185
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,320
from you, I don't get mad at
them.

1186
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:54,080
Some people do it the other way.
Like I've, I've heard that, you

1187
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,800
know, it's nice to be loyal, but
it goes both ways.

1188
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:02,240
So that's another thing.
I think that sometimes, you

1189
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:04,480
know, I'm offering an
opportunity.

1190
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,360
I want you to like that.
But also I respect the fact that

1191
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,240
you also have to run your own
business.

1192
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,200
But with that said, I've also
had people who come to me a lot

1193
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:13,880
and go, Kim, I'd really like to
work with you.

1194
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,760
And then they take jobs and they
cancel.

1195
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,479
If you've cancelled the job on
me three times in a row without

1196
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,880
offering a replacement, I'm not
reticent whether or not that was

1197
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,520
a better job or not to hire you
again, you're going to have to

1198
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,279
take some for the team, so.
Look, we all know that maybe a

1199
01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:33,600
better opportunity comes up.
But again, if I say yes to

1200
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,200
something, really, I'm committed
to you.

1201
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:41,399
You know, I'm committed to you
and I will do it and I will save

1202
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:47,000
for for myself, damn it.
Like a friend of mine, I spoke

1203
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:48,760
to her today.
She, you know, she was off.

1204
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,359
She was offered a job recently
and she was like, oh, I've just

1205
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:56,000
said yes to something else.
And she's like, I so wish I

1206
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,080
hadn't, she said.
But I have, I've said yes.

1207
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,640
And that's it.
Now I'm, I'm not going back on

1208
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:02,520
it.
And I I.

1209
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,160
Think that keeps you on people's
list?

1210
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,720
That keep you on my list.
Yeah, Yeah, You know, and, and

1211
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:11,359
that for me is, I mean, she's
got a wonderful character, you

1212
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:14,160
know, but generally she's like,
Oh my God, I want to do this

1213
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:15,399
other tour.
Like really?

1214
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:17,720
She wants to do the other tour.
She's committed.

1215
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,000
Yeah.
And, you know, that she's

1216
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:25,720
freelance, You know, she's also
had issues in the past where,

1217
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,439
you know, she was part of one
company and then she went to

1218
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,560
another and they were like, oh,
but your your own, your work.

1219
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:34,680
You will only work for us.
She was like, I'm freelance.

1220
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:36,720
Like, you know, you haven't got
a job.

1221
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,240
I'm going to go to somebody
else.

1222
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:41,120
Yeah.
And sadly as well, some

1223
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:45,000
companies do wipe you off their
list if you go elsewhere, you

1224
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,040
know, But there's.
Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a

1225
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,920
strange world out there, but we
still haven't got to the park.

1226
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:56,760
So basically off like after
being Jeff Rabbits's assistant,

1227
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,160
you know, you saw it.
The vision was there.

1228
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,840
So tell me, when did you?
When was your first meeting

1229
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,160
made?
It well, and that's the where OB

1230
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:08,000
comes in, right.
So at the time, Jeff rabbits was

1231
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,160
very loyal to Morpheus and there
were the light and sound designs

1232
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,440
and the OB's who would have
loved Jeff to bring a tour their

1233
01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:17,000
way, right.
And so I think that was why

1234
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,480
Michael Keeling at OB was like,
Hey, Kim, you know, maybe you

1235
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:23,080
could come learn how to run our
telescans also as large as a

1236
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:28,000
washing machine, you know, on a
on a console where, you know,

1237
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,840
there was no effects engine.
You would have to like tape 16

1238
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,000
pieces of tape on a floor, do
focuses and then run a run a

1239
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,720
chase, right.
But he was like, comment on your

1240
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,080
time.
You can, you know, learn how to

1241
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,000
run our our lights.
And he was clear with me.

1242
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,280
He said, I want you to do this
because if you get good at it,

1243
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,680
maybe, maybe you can get on this
tour you want and Jeff can use

1244
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,160
us.
He said that I that was great.

1245
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,400
I was like, sure, like
motivating me to spend my own

1246
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,280
time, you know, trying to learn
about these lights.

1247
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:03,760
So one night I was doing that.
I was running my cues to my

1248
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,520
songs and I turned around and
there was the executive suite of

1249
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:11,280
OB behind me.
And I'm all like, hi, gentlemen,

1250
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,520
830 at night, what can I do for
you, right.

1251
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,320
And they were like, Kim, can you
run it again but do it like

1252
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:17,400
this?
And I said sure.

1253
01:11:17,480 --> 01:11:19,040
And I ran it again.
And I did it like that.

1254
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,560
And I said thank you and left.
And then the next day they were

1255
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,440
like, we would like to put you
up to be the lighting director

1256
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:27,840
for Tracy Chapman tour.
Because The funny thing enough,

1257
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,920
the reason I finally got my
first opportunity was because an

1258
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,320
artist wanted a female.
So people are like, oh, I don't

1259
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:36,360
get it.
Because I was a female.

1260
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:39,600
I'm like, I finally got it
because I was a female, because

1261
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:44,240
somebody specifically said, I
want you to find me a female

1262
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,720
writing director.
And they were like, well, who's

1263
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,240
that?
You're like, who can do that,

1264
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,520
right?
And they took a chance on me.

1265
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,240
They were like, we're going to
write up a little resume for

1266
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,080
you.
Don't, don't you worry.

1267
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,520
We're just going to write up a
little something and we'll get

1268
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:00,640
you on that tour.
And they did.

1269
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:05,520
And and that was the most
difficult thing I've ever debt

1270
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,560
for was the most difficult thing
I've done in my life.

1271
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,320
But I learned a lot.
I learned a lot.

1272
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:19,400
And it was different reason it
oh gosh, for so many reasons,

1273
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:22,120
you know, and it was a learning
experience for me.

1274
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,040
And you don't know what you
don't know and people don't tell

1275
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:28,920
you things.
So it was, you know, politically

1276
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,040
difficult.
The gear didn't fit in every

1277
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,560
venue, you know, So I had to
kind of make up some things on

1278
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,920
the fly.
The expectation was I would run

1279
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:42,480
the opener and her, you know,
and she did have long runs.

1280
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:48,280
And just the politic of it was,
it was an interracial tour,

1281
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,640
which was wonderful, but there
was also a little bit of

1282
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:59,800
difficulty there, you know, and
that's the, that's the best way

1283
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,120
I'm going to say it.
I, you know, are there details?

1284
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:05,080
Sure.
But I just, it was difficult

1285
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:13,640
and, and the role I played and
I, that's the best way I can say

1286
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:14,520
it.
It was just difficult.

1287
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:19,120
And it made me a little sad
because I did an East Coast tour

1288
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,880
leg.
I did a European Tour leg, which

1289
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,560
was amazing.
Because she was invited.

1290
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,360
Tracy Chapman was invited to so
many non venue places that were

1291
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,360
amazing.
Little Italian opera houses, the

1292
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:37,320
the parking lot of cathedrals.
I mean places that were unusual

1293
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:43,000
and I've never seen since.
And so many people do also.

1294
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,080
That is the time I learned when
you don't tell people, you just

1295
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,080
let them love the artist.
You don't tell them the

1296
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,360
challenges it is to work maybe
with that artist.

1297
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:53,600
There were challenges there as
well.

1298
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,040
So there we were working in a
production that had artist

1299
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:02,800
challenges, crew challenges.
The relationship I had with a

1300
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:06,200
designer didn't end up being as
good as it could have been.

1301
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:08,480
And I learned a lot because of
that.

1302
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:13,280
I will just leave it like that.
So, but with coming back with

1303
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,440
that experience, I could now say
I've been on tour and that is

1304
01:14:16,440 --> 01:14:18,920
the thing.
Getting your first one is the

1305
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:23,520
hardest thing.
And once you survive one then

1306
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,600
then people want you because you
have experience.

1307
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,640
There's always, I think there's
always touring jobs, if you can

1308
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:32,640
say you know how to do that
because touring isn't just the

1309
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,480
job, it's the lifestyle and it's
the getting along with everybody

1310
01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:40,240
on a 40 foot bus and maybe
having an argument during the

1311
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:42,920
day and being able to have a
beverage together at the end.

1312
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,800
And if you, you have to have
that personality.

1313
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:52,560
And once again, people are
talking about it now.

1314
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,920
It's almost like you're living a
parallel life and how do you get

1315
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:00,280
back into your what real life
when the tour is over?

1316
01:15:00,440 --> 01:15:02,880
People are only talking about
that now and it's a thing.

1317
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:08,240
It's hard and how you sideline
what you might have thought your

1318
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:12,400
personal life trajectory is by
touring, right?

1319
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,600
I mean, some people have been
able to make their whole life in

1320
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,880
touring, but you have two
separate lives and it is

1321
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:22,600
something to try to manage that.
I've always, you know, I love

1322
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:26,640
talking about, I love being
open, you know, to Yeah, I know

1323
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,600
I love being open.
And one thing I've always spoken

1324
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,680
about is, you know, that that
whole site, the balance inside

1325
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,480
of your normal life to your work
life.

1326
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:39,960
And at first it was, it would, I
would struggle so much leaving a

1327
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:44,120
tour where I'd been on the bus,
the hotels and the whole crew

1328
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:48,240
around me to then going back
home where I lived on my own.

1329
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:53,040
I I struggled with that because.
It was everyone struggles.

1330
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:59,320
It was quiet and it wasn't until
I started talking to the people

1331
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,160
I've been on the tour with and I
said, I've got to say I'm

1332
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,760
struggling.
And then they were like, it's

1333
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:08,600
normal, don't worry.
So the, the best thing I ever

1334
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:12,760
advice, advice wise, you know,
people were talking to me and

1335
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:17,280
saying I, yeah, I, I, I do, I do
the same.

1336
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:24,320
I, I get back and I struggle.
Or oh the the lovely lady from

1337
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:27,360
Echo Live and her name's just
gone, totally gone.

1338
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,600
She has a no pants day.
So basically every every like

1339
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,200
day that she's working all week
that she's away, when she comes

1340
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:40,960
back, she says to everybody, OK,
I've been away for six weeks.

1341
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,960
I need 6 days of no pants, not
doing anything just to recharge

1342
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:46,760
my body.
And I love that.

1343
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:51,360
So she's kind of taken something
that's intense with work, but

1344
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:55,760
knows when I come back every
week I was away.

1345
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,560
I just need a day where I don't
have to worry.

1346
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,120
You can come round, but we're
going to have a no pants day.

1347
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,880
And I think that I I, I, I love
that way of things.

1348
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:11,720
So after Tracy Chapman, where
did then you just kept on from

1349
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,560
tour to tour to tour?
Well, difficulties along you.

1350
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:20,760
Know there is a lovely
programmer LD named Erica Hayes,

1351
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,840
and she's been on many pot, many
a podcast.

1352
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:28,360
And as she says, closed mouths
do not get fed.

1353
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:32,320
And a lot of people get
frightened by this.

1354
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,360
But you have to cold call if you
don't know someone.

1355
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,120
And that's the best way, knowing
someone's the best way.

1356
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:42,400
But then you know, So in that
instance, Paul Starr was my

1357
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:44,960
friend and I would look up
bands.

1358
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:46,920
So first of all, I knew my
place.

1359
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:52,920
I knew that I wasn't going to go
run even, you know, I was I

1360
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:57,080
needed to find someone maybe who
this was their first LD, right.

1361
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:00,840
And and for that, that would be
a band who had a couple of hits

1362
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,400
on an album and we're ready to
release their sophomore.

1363
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,120
And maybe it wasn't their
software.

1364
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,480
Maybe obviously sometimes it
takes 10 years to be an

1365
01:18:07,480 --> 01:18:11,320
overnight success, but I would
be looking for that band that

1366
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,040
was about ready to go on tour,
had announced they were on tour.

1367
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:18,920
It was months away and they
would announce it and that would

1368
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:21,760
be the position because that the
the tour.

1369
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,200
So it would be the tour on the
album after they got a hit.

1370
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:29,280
That would be that was the niche
of and I'd look up management

1371
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,560
companies and same kind of
thing.

1372
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,680
When I talked about writing
drama teachers.

1373
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,320
You're going to have a large
percentage of people you cannot

1374
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:40,040
get in touch with of people who
don't reply and respond to you.

1375
01:18:40,440 --> 01:18:45,240
And then I got someone to say,
oh, and one, someone was very

1376
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:46,960
interested in me, but the same
thing.

1377
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,040
We haven't had a lady on tour.
You know, we're concerned

1378
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,600
because everybody's going to be
on one bus, you know?

1379
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,320
What is that like?
And I'm like, I don't know, wear

1380
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:56,680
underwear.
I don't know what to tell you.

1381
01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:58,840
It's not a problem for me.
Yeah.

1382
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:04,440
I mean, but it didn't work out.
Also, you know, partners get

1383
01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:06,160
upset.
I know someone who didn't get a

1384
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:09,320
tour because they were told that
the girlfriends of the band

1385
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,320
wouldn't be OK with a woman on
the bus.

1386
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:13,640
Is it right?
I don't know.

1387
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:17,400
Is it real?
You know, and it's hard.

1388
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:22,240
It's hard, right?
And I have seen many tour

1389
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:23,760
liaison.
Those things happen.

1390
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:28,000
It's not untoward.
So you know, I I don't there's

1391
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,520
no answer there.
But you keep moving until

1392
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,240
someone says as they did.
How did you know we were

1393
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:36,000
looking?
And I met with the Ban Jellyfish

1394
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,760
and I toured with them for off
and on for a year and it was

1395
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,040
wonderful.
And that was my best experience.

1396
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,520
And honestly, we were all in one
bus.

1397
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,800
I would not in general say
touring with the band is fun

1398
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:51,520
because it's, you know, after
that one experience, which was

1399
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:55,240
great, I had other experiences
where everybody was on one bus.

1400
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,560
It's not great because you then
you're now not only are you

1401
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,000
living with people you're
working with, you're living with

1402
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,520
your de facto bosses.
And that's not great.

1403
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,080
Because they don't they don't
observe health rules honestly.

1404
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:10,680
Like when you have a bus with
crew people on it, you can keep

1405
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,840
the temperature correct.
You can keep people's crap out

1406
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,160
of the public spaces, right?
We all know it could possibly

1407
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:19,240
happen to you if you fall asleep
in the public areas.

1408
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:22,960
So you know, you can.
And I've seen it like, who

1409
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:24,640
hasn't?
Like love drawing a Sharpie

1410
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:26,560
mustache on somebody.
It happens.

1411
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,960
Don't do it.
So, you know, takes a while for

1412
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:36,040
that to wear off.
But I would say, yeah, crew

1413
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,800
having their own buses, you
know, a large enough tour where

1414
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:40,280
they had crew on their own
buses.

1415
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,560
Always really nice is during the
Jellyfish tour, Jeff came and

1416
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:47,040
saw my show and then offered me
lighting director work.

1417
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,680
So full circle, right?
The how so that you know, and

1418
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,280
it's I'm going to say this, it's
a shame.

1419
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,640
I mean, I understand obviously
where Jeff had come from, you

1420
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:02,440
know, at the beginning, but it's
just a shame that he didn't give

1421
01:21:02,440 --> 01:21:05,400
you that opportunity.
He wasn't the first one to give

1422
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,000
you that opportunity.
You know, I think to be fair, I

1423
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:13,080
think if Jeff had the kind of
tour size where he felt he I

1424
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:15,080
could be successful, he hadn't
said that.

1425
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,720
Like maybe we find a little
Blues club tour or something

1426
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:21,680
where it's a lot more forgiving
as you find your way and that's

1427
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,000
not unfair.
Yes, it would have been nice,

1428
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:30,640
but ultimately I did the work.
I showed him my expertise or my

1429
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,360
skills and he said yes and he
signed me up.

1430
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,880
And it wasn't long, you know,
literally didn't take you long.

1431
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,080
Yeah, I did take long.
Like, was it another couple of

1432
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,400
years after?
I know so.

1433
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:44,920
But you know, it wasn't like it
was, you know, years down the

1434
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,720
line and like you, you go from
job to job to job.

1435
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:52,480
But you had a solid, you know,
good resume now at this point

1436
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,920
and you know, he and he saw it.
So you had the talent.

1437
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:59,520
And I also kept in touch.
I could have been, you know, I

1438
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:02,160
could have been cynical and not
kept in touch because I didn't

1439
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,080
get what I wanted.
You know, that's another

1440
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,640
opportunity where you keep in
touch, you don't burn bridges.

1441
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:11,880
It's not worth it, you know?
You, you know, and and yeah, you

1442
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:16,080
know.
And so life on tour, I mean,

1443
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:20,280
what would you say is one thing
that people don't realize about

1444
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,080
life on tour?
So like, what when what before

1445
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:26,200
you, you knew you wanted to go
on tour, but what was the one

1446
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:28,640
thing you actually didn't really
realized?

1447
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,200
Yeah, happened when you was on
tour.

1448
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:37,000
Well, we talked a little bit
about the idea of having two

1449
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:38,640
lives.
I mean, that's something you

1450
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:43,240
don't realize.
You know, I'll speak a little

1451
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:48,040
bit about being a woman on tour
and in the 90s, which is, and

1452
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,200
I've had people say this has
happened to them and they were

1453
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:55,040
unhappy about it.
But I was joyous to be able to

1454
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:59,480
walk in first and have someone
say, Kim, it's a pleasure to

1455
01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:00,880
meet you.
You're with the tour, right?

1456
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,880
Hi.
I'm Alicia.

1457
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,480
Would you like to see the
dressing rooms?

1458
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:08,360
Maybe we can show you where the
towels are.

1459
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:12,800
You know, assuming that I was
the production assistant or some

1460
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:18,040
role there and I loved, I wasn't
offended people.

1461
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,840
I've heard people say, well, why
do they just assume I was that

1462
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:22,440
position?
And the truth is, it's because

1463
01:23:22,440 --> 01:23:25,880
that's what it usually is.
And I would love to say just

1464
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,760
enjoy.
I relished the fact that I would

1465
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:32,360
say, hey, as a matter of fact,
can you show me where the towels

1466
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:33,320
are?
Because there's usually no

1467
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:35,440
towels and I'm done.
So let's get him a couple of

1468
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:38,480
fresh towels now.
And I really would like to talk

1469
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:40,600
to your rigor.
And they'd be all or your

1470
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,240
production electrician and
they'd be all like, what?

1471
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,280
But I liked that like, like
surprise them.

1472
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:49,800
Get them into the idea that
that's what they're going to see

1473
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,720
more, right?
Because they don't know, you

1474
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:54,840
know, And, and when they're
inviting you in, they're

1475
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,480
inviting you into their home.
Wipe your feet.

1476
01:23:57,480 --> 01:24:02,520
OK, Be polite, right?
Yeah, 100%.

1477
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:07,560
I mean, a very good friend of
mine, Colleen Witzenberg, she's,

1478
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:10,160
I mean, she's, she's just, she's
incredible for me.

1479
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:13,280
But her attitude to things, you
know, she just walks.

1480
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:17,760
She owns, you know, she, she,
she owns the where she is, you

1481
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,280
know, she knows exactly.
And this isn't just touring

1482
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,080
life.
This is personal life.

1483
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:24,480
You know, she's always known
like you.

1484
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,720
This is my goal.
How am I going to get there?

1485
01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:32,320
And that is the most that for
me, what you've given me is the

1486
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,520
that's the best advice.
Know your goal, know where you

1487
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:38,800
want to be and you you can get
there.

1488
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:40,800
It just.
Well, and figure out the price

1489
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,000
you have to pay.
There's always a price to pay.

1490
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,680
And if you don't want to pay the
price, well then maybe reassess

1491
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,240
your goal.
And that sounds harsh, but I

1492
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:52,400
think that's even more important
today without technology based,

1493
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,320
this industry is more and more
technology based.

1494
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:59,160
If you just, you know, can hang
a few park cans and and live

1495
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:03,800
with no sleep, you know, but now
wake up and smell the parameters

1496
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:04,800
people.
It is.

1497
01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:07,520
It is very technologically
advanced.

1498
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:12,800
Not everyone is going to be able
to have the cognitive base to do

1499
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:14,320
it.
That's sad but true.

1500
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:16,880
You could work for a long time
and wonder why you can't get

1501
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,880
further, and it would be because
you can't remember how to work

1502
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:21,960
with a managed network system.
Yeah.

1503
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:24,840
You know, so do the best you
can.

1504
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:26,640
You know, you can train
yourself.

1505
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:29,560
You know, some people are
fortunate enough to just take to

1506
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:33,960
it.
It can be achieved through study

1507
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:37,120
and application.
But there are also might be a

1508
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:38,480
time when you have to reassess
your goal.

1509
01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:42,040
And that's realistic also, how
many jobs are there, right?

1510
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,760
How many jobs are there?
There's people we're talking to

1511
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:47,360
that have been doing this and
they're not going to give up

1512
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:48,680
those jobs.
They're not going to give up

1513
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:50,640
those roles.
There's many times I was told

1514
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:52,960
that the only time you're gonna
get on a cruise is if somebody

1515
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,160
cancels at the last minute.
Yeah.

1516
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:57,600
Right.
It's kind of like a parking

1517
01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:59,400
space in San Francisco.
You don't get a parking space

1518
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:01,960
unless you actually see a car
leaving because there's only so

1519
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:06,120
many spaces, right?
No, it's true, you know, So

1520
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:11,880
there's that.
But yeah, touring early as well.

1521
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:13,720
I thought it was real
interesting because I would go

1522
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,280
in with the plot.
I would meet the local crew.

1523
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:18,240
I would say, hi, everybody.
I'm Kim.

1524
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:19,880
Here's our plot.
This is what we're hanging

1525
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:23,000
today.
And before 1 box would come off

1526
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:26,320
the truck, whoever the leads
were would be.

1527
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:32,440
Ah, OK Kim, how much powers in
this pool are you bounced along

1528
01:26:32,440 --> 01:26:35,040
your phases?
How much does this weigh?

1529
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:39,240
What would you do in this case?
And I answered the questions

1530
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:41,240
thinking, well, of course
they're going to want me to know

1531
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:43,880
it's their house.
They want to make sure that that

1532
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:47,720
we're prepared as a production.
But what was interesting to me

1533
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:51,240
was there was one day I was so
I'll and my production

1534
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:56,360
electrician, it was me and John
Keating, who is now with for a

1535
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:58,320
while.
He's done amazing work over the

1536
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:00,440
time.
He was 25, I think I was 31 and

1537
01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:03,320
it was just us and we were in a
production in which the

1538
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:05,520
production manager was the last
person to get off the bus.

1539
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,680
He had not made been making
friends in the advance.

1540
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:09,360
And so that was another
difficulty of that particular

1541
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,120
tour.
And I was very ill.

1542
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:15,400
And he said, Kev, you know,
we're week 4 into 6.

1543
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,240
Why don't you go to catering, go
get some tea.

1544
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:21,400
Mornings are the hardest when
you're I'll I will get going.

1545
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:26,120
I will get us started, right?
And I remember him going in

1546
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:29,440
first because I was all like,
you know, normally I'd be doing

1547
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:30,600
it.
And I was so sick.

1548
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:33,920
So he went in first and he shook
hands with the guy in charge.

1549
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,960
And he said, OK, start directing
boxes.

1550
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:38,640
I mean, they didn't even look at
his plot.

1551
01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:42,480
And I remember going, well,
aren't you going to look at the

1552
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:43,840
plot?
Aren't you going to ask him the

1553
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:47,760
questions?
And no, they didn't.

1554
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:49,240
They were just like, what do you
want?

1555
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:52,600
So that's not necessarily a
negative.

1556
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,120
It's just it was that you're
asking what is the difference?

1557
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:56,840
Well, that was the difference.
That was the difference.

1558
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:59,880
Everybody did it, but they had
to have answers for me first.

1559
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:04,720
They had to make sure that there
was someone who knew what they

1560
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:08,320
were doing there.
I'm not having a comment about

1561
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:09,640
that.
I'm just saying how it was

1562
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:13,400
different.
So that so that's how it was

1563
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:16,200
different.
So there you go.

1564
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:20,520
And I just living in Los
Angeles, working between tours

1565
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:24,360
and having other opportunities.
I will say that has was also

1566
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:27,160
informed my career.
Like I said, I had done some

1567
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:29,360
television, so that was
interesting.

1568
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:36,560
I also did some permanent
installation work for a ARC

1569
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:41,400
attainment job in Japan and I
was offered that opportunity

1570
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:42,680
because I had the master's
degree.

1571
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:45,160
Like in so many ways it didn't
matter.

1572
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:51,240
But in this case, the designer
taught graduate lighting at

1573
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:53,920
Irvine and so he was interested
that I had a hat of his

1574
01:28:53,920 --> 01:29:00,560
applicants the the career paper.
So you never know, but it gave

1575
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,760
me kind of an opening into what
the other disciplines are.

1576
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:08,240
And I think that has helped me
over time to just have a wide

1577
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:10,800
knowledge base.
Now you actually, you actually

1578
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:14,800
wrote that, you know, most
people kind of know you as LD

1579
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,560
Kim, but then it's like some
people will say to you, you know

1580
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:22,160
you're LD Kim, but now you're AC
and like.

1581
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:25,240
I'd love to say that wasn't like
poke and a bruise, but that's

1582
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:27,040
like poke and a bruise.
So it's kind of like you said,

1583
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:29,960
like I'm not touring, but I love
it and I miss things about it.

1584
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:36,600
So for me, you know, first of
all, can in my case, well, just

1585
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:38,960
what I want to say is, yeah,
that's like a poke and a bruise

1586
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:46,720
for me because yes, I miss it,
but it's just a that piece of

1587
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,080
it.
It's just a small piece of the

1588
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:50,520
overall job.
The pieces we miss are not even

1589
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,360
50% of the job.
The other 50% of is it being a

1590
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:57,400
freelance position.
The other piece of it is the

1591
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,040
exhaustion.
The other piece of it is it

1592
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:03,120
sounds like you have control
over all of it, but you don't

1593
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,760
like, I don't know any.
A lighting designer who has been

1594
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:09,240
in the business for very long
who hasn't, hasn't in their mind

1595
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:11,280
gone.
Please don't tell anybody I did

1596
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:14,680
this because I don't want my
name on this because I didn't

1597
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:18,000
have ultimate control about how
it looked or how it went down.

1598
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:21,040
I'm doing my job.
You know those things.

1599
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:24,640
You know, you see the shining
glory part, you don't see the

1600
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:31,320
other part, right?
And also, yeah, so, so there's

1601
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:34,000
that about it.
And also it also goes to the

1602
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:36,640
fact that the suit position is
misunderstood.

1603
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:39,560
But then how did you go?
When did you did you then think

1604
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,360
to yourself, OK, touring now?
Was it coming to an end?

1605
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:47,520
Did you kind of like how did you
then get into like the roles you

1606
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:49,480
are now?
Like how did that float from

1607
01:30:49,480 --> 01:30:51,480
touring?
So when did you stop touring?

1608
01:30:51,960 --> 01:31:00,320
Well, it was interesting because
initially I was, you know, the

1609
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:04,280
Natalie Chapman tour finished at
the end of September, and by

1610
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:06,560
December I didn't have any other
work.

1611
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,320
And because I had moved back to
San Francisco when I was in Los

1612
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:12,600
Angeles, there was always, I
could always find work between

1613
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:13,840
tours.
I could always find work.

1614
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:17,040
There was so much work.
And then I came home after the

1615
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:20,200
Lemonheads tour and my roommate
was gone and there was an

1616
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:23,760
eviction notice on my door
because there, you know, I've

1617
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,160
been sending money, but things
hadn't been paid, things things

1618
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:29,960
hadn't been done.
So I came home exhausted to an

1619
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:33,480
eviction notice on the door and
I was like, I just, I don't want

1620
01:31:33,480 --> 01:31:35,360
to deal with this.
I think that now that I'm

1621
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:36,600
touring, I'm just going to go
home.

1622
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:41,040
So I had always kept a very
close round of friends up in

1623
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:43,240
here in the Bay Area.
So I just moved home.

1624
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:45,080
I thought, why don't I just move
home?

1625
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:48,520
So I did and then I got some
touring work, which was fine.

1626
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:51,960
But then when I didn't have it,
I didn't have a local work and

1627
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:57,200
there is was not the plethora of
work in San Francisco.

1628
01:31:57,200 --> 01:32:01,000
So I was like, I got to find a
job, like I need to go find a

1629
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:07,600
job.
And I met Phil and he was

1630
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:11,000
representing Strand at the time.
And I met Jim Shell straight who

1631
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:14,320
sold systems integrated systems
at company called Holes Wheeler

1632
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:18,000
here in San Francisco.
And and they said, Kim, we will

1633
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:24,120
offer you a system installation
job, but you have to promise us

1634
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:25,920
a year because we know what you
do.

1635
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:27,440
You can't.
We're not going to give you a

1636
01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:30,800
job in January to pay your rent
in February if you're just going

1637
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,760
to take a tour in April.
So if you decide you really hate

1638
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:37,200
it, fine, but we're asking you
for a year.

1639
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:40,080
Which is fair.
It's fair.

1640
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:41,800
And I did get that phone call
back.

1641
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:44,600
I would like to say I did get
that phone call back in April to

1642
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:47,240
resume doing Ringo Starr with
with Jeff.

1643
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:52,560
And I said no.
And I started learning about the

1644
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:56,560
money because when you're in the
creative side, you don't

1645
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,080
necessarily know the production
managers do it, the tour

1646
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:01,880
managers do it.
You know, as much as I talked

1647
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:05,120
about how you should know every
angle, you know, there's a whole

1648
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:07,400
nother layer of the negotiation
on the money side.

1649
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:11,240
So what I really meant
creatively is understand maybe

1650
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:13,960
the tech understand maybe what
it would take to float what

1651
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:16,800
you're asking in a ceiling.
Like I understand you're going

1652
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:19,840
to stamp on your lighting design
that rigging is done by others,

1653
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:24,000
but just a basically not assume
that you're not getting what you

1654
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:25,240
want because people don't want
to do it.

1655
01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:27,760
Maybe it just can't be done.
And maybe you need to learn a

1656
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:32,000
little bit more about what what
can be done right and ask those

1657
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:33,960
questions and not be a
frightened to not know

1658
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:35,960
everything.
I think some people are also not

1659
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:39,000
are frightened or thinking their
position might get taken away

1660
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:40,040
because they don't know
everything.

1661
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:43,120
You know, could they, maybe they
could, I don't know.

1662
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:45,960
But but once again in that like
maybe they just were trying to

1663
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:50,440
keep their job.
But after about a year, though,

1664
01:33:50,440 --> 01:33:53,560
to be honest, Sarah, I started
borrowing lighting and started

1665
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:56,360
doing bands at night.
So now I've got this full time

1666
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:00,280
sales job, but now I'm doing
lighting for local bands for

1667
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:02,640
nothing at night.
And after about a year of that,

1668
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:04,600
I was like, oh, this sucks.
You're just going to have to

1669
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:07,320
face the fact that you want to
go back into production because

1670
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:11,280
that's what you want to do.
So I tried to move into the

1671
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:15,400
production department of that
organization.

1672
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:18,320
It didn't really work.
And then I was offered

1673
01:34:19,480 --> 01:34:23,000
Holzmueller Productions is a Bay
Area event based company and

1674
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:25,880
they were looking for someone to
come design in house.

1675
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:29,400
And that is not a job you find
often.

1676
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:31,840
So even then, and that was in
2000.

1677
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:35,200
So even then it was a job where
I got to be the lighting

1678
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:37,760
designer.
I was also the account manager,

1679
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:39,600
I was also the production
electrician.

1680
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,280
I was also the person who was
running the cruise on site.

1681
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:47,120
So kind of the whole thing and
now what was even awesome about

1682
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:52,960
it is when I was first offered
that job from Peter Donovan, we

1683
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,400
supported the lighting designs
and installations for the

1684
01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:59,880
Hartman projects only with a lot
of new equipment.

1685
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:03,760
So, so that allowed me to ramp
up by the time they purchased

1686
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:09,360
Impact lighting, which is a
local social lighting darling

1687
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:14,520
and and then Hartman pushing
forward after the 2001 drop in

1688
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:18,960
business, they started going out
there with their executives and

1689
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:23,480
they got large corporate work,
large corporate work like large

1690
01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:30,560
retail managers, meetings in
different cities, large banking

1691
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,920
jobs.
And I was positioned to be the

1692
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:35,360
lighting designer for those.
So that's how I got to do it.

1693
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,840
I didn't have to apply for it.
I was already working for the

1694
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:41,680
company that needed those
services, so I was able to grow

1695
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:46,440
my knowledge in doing large
scale corporate work with their

1696
01:35:46,440 --> 01:35:50,320
inventory while doing budgets.
And that's where I started

1697
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:57,600
noticing, you know, there's that
adage where it is either you get

1698
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:01,240
it done quickly, you get it done
in quality or you get it done

1699
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:02,320
with price.
Pick 2.

1700
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:07,480
Now, while I understand that, I
also think that if you negotiate

1701
01:36:07,480 --> 01:36:08,920
correctly, you can get all
three.

1702
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,880
You just have to understand, you
know, helping people define the

1703
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:15,320
kind of job they're trying to
do.

1704
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:21,320
I think this analogy might be
fun for some people when I was

1705
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:26,800
talking to some more social
companies about how to help

1706
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:31,040
their clients decide what kind
of vision they can afford, right

1707
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:34,040
without being insulting, right?
Because people come to you with

1708
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:36,000
grand ideas.
They don't have the budget for

1709
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:37,880
that.
You don't want to be insulting.

1710
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,360
They don't know what it takes to
put together something like

1711
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:42,200
that.
So, so how do you train your

1712
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:44,560
client?
You know, and I and I would like

1713
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,800
to mention light switch and
they're just, they're

1714
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,920
sustainable design model because
I think they're the leaders in

1715
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:53,640
the industry of trying to do
that training, trying to tell

1716
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:56,760
the people of the industry that
the the focus you have is only a

1717
01:36:56,760 --> 01:37:01,400
small piece and you're trying to
reach clients.

1718
01:37:01,400 --> 01:37:02,640
How to get better outcomes with
us.

1719
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,040
Help us help you, please.
Right.

1720
01:37:05,440 --> 01:37:07,480
And how to get that message out,
right.

1721
01:37:07,480 --> 01:37:10,160
But then how do you talk to
people about scale?

1722
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:11,920
And I thought this company did a
great job.

1723
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:13,880
They were like, let's talk about
the catering.

1724
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:16,880
Is this a Kobe beef catering
job?

1725
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:20,760
Is this AT bone steak?
And pardon me for relating to

1726
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:23,720
me, but T-bone steak job.
Or are we going to have a little

1727
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:26,280
circus with hot dogs and
popcorn, right?

1728
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:28,840
Yeah.
So, so without offending

1729
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:32,200
anybody, is this a Kobe beef
job?

1730
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:37,720
Is this AT bone steak job or is
this a hot dog and popcorn job?

1731
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,480
Everybody loves the circus.
Like I'm not trying to, but

1732
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:43,320
let's not spend a whole lot of
time looking at the Kobe beef

1733
01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:47,640
artistry and vision when you got
the hot dog and popcorn budget,

1734
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:51,040
you know, even if you don't know
what that is, right?

1735
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:54,520
So, so people need that.
How to get how do I get there

1736
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:56,440
without embarrassing myself?
I mean, that's a big thing.

1737
01:37:56,520 --> 01:38:00,600
How do I get to those decisions?
But that's a great way we even

1738
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:02,320
just, yeah, straight away I'm
like, Oh yeah.

1739
01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:04,800
Because straight away I'm like,
Oh yeah, I don't want the Coke

1740
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:07,720
beef, you know, I want the steak
and that's it, you know?

1741
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:09,640
Yeah, like you've gone to that
restaurant.

1742
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:11,840
I'm going to have the side.
I'd like the side of the screen

1743
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:16,600
finished today.
I'm not going for the king cut

1744
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:19,320
of the prime rib today.
It's not in my budget, right?

1745
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:25,600
So where is home for you now?
The San Francisco Bay Area, I

1746
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:28,760
lived in the city for a long
time, but you know, it's very

1747
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:30,640
true in San Francisco.
If you're a renter, at some

1748
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:31,800
point you're going to get priced
out.

1749
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:36,320
And after 23 years after I moved
up from Lai got priced out.

1750
01:38:37,400 --> 01:38:41,400
My, my personal situation was my
father had passed and I need, I

1751
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:42,840
wanted to move my mother in with
us.

1752
01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:47,880
So I was able then to, you know,
leverage, you know, leverage

1753
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:52,000
some far away 4O1K money into a
down payment on a three bedroom

1754
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:55,560
in the suburbs.
So lucky me, you know, lucky me.

1755
01:38:56,200 --> 01:39:01,520
So I've, you know, been able to
manage that into something where

1756
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:05,040
I have a, you know, barring
property taxes, I have a stable

1757
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:10,080
like, you know, price to meet.
Now I think, are you fully

1758
01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:14,040
remote now or you know, do you?
Like go in to the office.

1759
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:17,040
Felix Lighting has a warehouse
in Brisbane which is just South

1760
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:19,120
of San Francisco.
Between San Francisco and it's

1761
01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:22,800
airport.
Then I go in weekly, right?

1762
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:26,160
We have a weekly meeting, as
many production, you know,

1763
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:29,360
rental production companies do.
And I go in weekly.

1764
01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:32,320
And then I go in when my clients
are prepping.

1765
01:39:32,720 --> 01:39:37,480
So I go in, I mean, they have an
office space for me and I go in

1766
01:39:37,480 --> 01:39:41,840
there weekly.
I also believe that we've been

1767
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:44,920
talking about it.
These are hard jobs and you need

1768
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,880
to have a camaraderie.
You need to know your, your OPS

1769
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:49,480
department needs to know you
respect them.

1770
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:54,480
You know, your, your teams need
to know and, and FaceTime.

1771
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:58,160
I'm, you know, I'm social, I am
social.

1772
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:02,640
So it's so funny because as much
as I'm social, I can also get

1773
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,640
real isolationist and shy if I
don't know what I'm speaking

1774
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:08,880
about.
Like if I don't like, we know

1775
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:10,320
exactly what we're speaking
about here.

1776
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:14,040
So that's easy enough for me.
So, so it encourages me to get

1777
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,480
out.
It encourages me to be social,

1778
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:19,800
right?
But I tease them.

1779
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:22,360
I said I'm coming in it weekly
to distract you all from your

1780
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:24,120
work and let you know what I
think about what you're doing,

1781
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:25,920
you know?
It's because they.

1782
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:31,000
'D love to think it was a joke.
But he's not I have like my my

1783
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:34,600
weekly meeting with Marcel.
And then sometimes he can be

1784
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:36,880
like, have you have you been on
your own for a while?

1785
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,880
And I was like all day,
obviously the time difference

1786
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,840
like, and I'm like all day.
And he's like, my goodness, you

1787
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:49,760
haven't spoken to anybody like
no today, because I same thing.

1788
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:53,600
You miss the socialness of of
Yeah, you miss being social.

1789
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:58,440
Am I very happy that it's
remote?

1790
01:40:58,440 --> 01:41:03,120
Yes, 100%.
Do I wish maybe I don't know.

1791
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:05,520
There was a few more.
I because I live on the island,

1792
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:12,920
like, yeah, really that there is
no, there wasn't even any just

1793
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:17,800
thinking of like music venues,
but but nothing, you know, even

1794
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:22,040
for me to like just go in and
get that buzz that there there's

1795
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:24,280
nothing here like.
Yeah.

1796
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:27,480
You know, there's got to be the
natural beauty, right?

1797
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:31,880
I mean, I would say one of the
things that I've learned is that

1798
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:36,040
I love, you know, I love live
music.

1799
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:37,440
I do.
That's like my church.

1800
01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:39,240
That's my collective conscious
churches.

1801
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:40,720
Live music, I see it all the
time.

1802
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:44,760
Little venues, big venues, but
also nature can do it.

1803
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:47,840
I think that, you know, when
you're young you really want

1804
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:50,040
that from society.
But you know, I'm, I'm sure

1805
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:51,960
you've chosen it for a reason
and there's got to be a lot of

1806
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:56,720
natural beauty there.
We do a lot of we do a lot of

1807
01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:01,000
walking.
We are always out in nature, you

1808
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:04,600
know, as we, as we mentioned
about, you know, we save a lot

1809
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:09,240
of animals, foster a lot, try
and give give the animals to to

1810
01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:12,720
people and you know, we're very
much into the nature.

1811
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:14,560
In fact, even now.
I mean, I was looking actually,

1812
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:16,800
it's amazing.
It's like we've been almost two

1813
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:18,080
hours now.
I can't believe it.

1814
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:20,200
I'm so sorry.
No like.

1815
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:23,120
That I could honestly, I could
talk.

1816
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:27,880
I want to know so much more.
But really two hours.

1817
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:32,600
I can't believe that.
But normally like by again,

1818
01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:34,640
Marcel laughs at me.
You know, if he sends me a

1819
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:38,240
message like after 9:00, I'm
like, I'm, I'm getting ready for

1820
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:40,000
bed, you know, like, but we're
up early.

1821
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:43,000
So, you know, because that's
the, the, the way we are here

1822
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:44,960
now, No.
No, I understand.

1823
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:48,160
I, I was such a night owl and in
production, I would go back to

1824
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:51,440
being a night owl, but you know,
toes up A10 if I'm home, you

1825
01:42:51,440 --> 01:42:57,960
know, so, but yeah, to follow up
to what was really nice is in

1826
01:42:58,200 --> 01:43:00,920
this job, I was also able to
tour.

1827
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:03,160
And that's the thing I think
you, you know, might be worth

1828
01:43:03,160 --> 01:43:05,280
mentioning.
Like you're like, how did you

1829
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:07,520
give up touring?
Well, I didn't have to and that

1830
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:10,200
was the joy.
I was able to tour in the

1831
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:12,440
summers because people need fill
in.

1832
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:16,840
So people need someone to do 2
weeks when their five year old

1833
01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:19,360
starting school.
And I had the wonderful

1834
01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:22,720
opportunity to fill in with for
wonderful LDS and I had the

1835
01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:25,360
skill to just jump into
something that was already up

1836
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:28,280
and running.
So I had the skill that I could

1837
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:31,960
just, you know, send me the
file, send me the plot, right.

1838
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:36,720
And I could just jump in.
And so touring 2 of the joys I

1839
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:39,840
love at the beginning of a tour
when you're sitting in the hotel

1840
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,160
lobby waiting for that first
call and you don't know where

1841
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,560
the crew is.
I would love to watch people

1842
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:47,000
come down the stairs and go
tourist, tourist.

1843
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:49,520
Oh, hey, they're on our crew.
They're on our crew.

1844
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,200
I bet that's the merchandise
lady with the with the tattoos

1845
01:43:54,200 --> 01:43:59,200
and the piercings, right?
Oh, tourist, that guy, he's on

1846
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:03,360
our tour, right?
He's got AT shirt and jeans and

1847
01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:05,880
a ponytail, but he's carrying a
Halliburton.

1848
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,360
I wonder if that's our tour
manager, right.

1849
01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:14,440
So that was fun and also the
ability to still do some touring

1850
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:20,320
when I was doing a position, but
then I would have to take my

1851
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:23,320
afternoons and kind of keep up.
And since I've been with Felix,

1852
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:27,600
I have not been touring so.
So that is part of it.

1853
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:33,120
And to be fair, I would say an
aha moment for me was I was

1854
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:36,240
doing some fill in and I would
love to decide about the fact

1855
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:39,320
that I was offered a lot of
filling opportunity because they

1856
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:41,120
all knew I wouldn't try and take
their job.

1857
01:44:41,440 --> 01:44:43,360
And that's the thing, I would
like to take a moment and talk

1858
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:47,440
about people who have had an
opportunity to fill in someone

1859
01:44:47,440 --> 01:44:49,560
else and said what was I
supposed to do?

1860
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:52,160
The production liked me better
and they took the job.

1861
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:54,280
And I know people who have done
that.

1862
01:44:55,120 --> 01:44:57,800
It doesn't further you.
I've also heard those same

1863
01:44:57,800 --> 01:45:00,400
people come back to me and say
I'm having a hard time finding

1864
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:02,600
my next opportunity.
So let me say that right now

1865
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:10,120
that it does not serve you right
to do that and I've lost jobs

1866
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:12,040
because of it.
I have been offered that.

1867
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:15,200
I didn't take the job back.
The person who put me up for the

1868
01:45:15,200 --> 01:45:18,920
job also lost the job.
We both lost the job, and that's

1869
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:19,800
what the person you took it
said.

1870
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:21,280
Well, that person is going to
lose their job anyway.

1871
01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:24,760
And I'm like, well, but that
this is a very small industry

1872
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:27,960
and you may think that people
don't talk about that, but they

1873
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:32,000
do so and they do.
Who's on your character?

1874
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:34,920
I know people that have done it.
I also know people that have

1875
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:38,400
done it by taking a pay cut.
So I'd say it, you know, and

1876
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:42,880
they've done stuff really
sneakily to make God know the

1877
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:47,640
other person look bad and then
they moved into their role.

1878
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:50,360
That's also I I've seen a lot of
that.

1879
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:53,680
It's a way we'll just say that,
but it's not.

1880
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:56,400
I don't.
And once again, I can only say

1881
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:59,680
that's my perspective because
once again, I've seen plenty of

1882
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:03,320
people who are charismatic,
they're kind of smart and they

1883
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:05,360
just say they know how to do a
bunch of stuff and they don't.

1884
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:07,840
And they expect to figure it out
on job site and good for them if

1885
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:09,440
they do.
But I could never do that path

1886
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:12,680
because I just was cheap.
No, I can't do that.

1887
01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:16,760
I need to know so and that
served me, but I'm not going to

1888
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:19,520
say that the other way is wrong.
It has worked for plenty of

1889
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:21,320
people who just fake it till
they make it.

1890
01:46:21,560 --> 01:46:22,880
You know, that's a that's a
thing.

1891
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,320
People can do it.
It is, yeah.

1892
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:28,640
And yeah, and so the last thing
I would say is that about

1893
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:33,360
touring, there was a time when
projection was added to my

1894
01:46:34,440 --> 01:46:37,200
projection and managing
projection as well as managing

1895
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,800
how systems was put on my job
plate.

1896
01:46:40,160 --> 01:46:42,640
So they were like this can't
time can when you go out, we

1897
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:48,120
don't want you to just clone and
not have a system and put this

1898
01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:50,280
programming into whatever house
rig you have.

1899
01:46:50,440 --> 01:46:53,240
We also want you to manage the
video.

1900
01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:56,640
It's fairly simple to a video.
You know they're going to

1901
01:46:56,640 --> 01:46:59,440
provide the screen, you provide
the projector, but then you have

1902
01:46:59,440 --> 01:47:01,920
to put the projector up, you
have to lens it right.

1903
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:04,400
You have to set up the software
next to you, you have to focus

1904
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:07,880
it correctly and you have to
clone in a regular production

1905
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:09,480
day.
Now I did that run.

1906
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:13,360
It was not great.
I got through it, you know, and

1907
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:16,560
the person came to me and this
is me being honest about they

1908
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:20,000
came back to me and they said,
you know, we saw those shows on

1909
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:25,240
YouTube and it didn't seem to us
that you were, as you know,

1910
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:28,360
those shows weren't as tight as
you normally do for us.

1911
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:33,000
They were not as good and, and
right about the same time.

1912
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:36,600
This is going to sound so funny.
I was at a Chinese restaurant.

1913
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:39,760
I we're with my friends.
We're opening up the Chinese

1914
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:42,240
fortune cookies, you know,
assuming, you know, you have to

1915
01:47:42,240 --> 01:47:44,160
say the words in bed after it,
right?

1916
01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:48,400
We're laughing.
I get this Chinese message and

1917
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:53,120
it says the Chinese fortune
cookie says he who chases 2

1918
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:58,600
rabbits gets no rabbits.
And that happened right about

1919
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:00,160
that time.
And I was all like, you know,

1920
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:06,600
Kim, if you want to tour, you're
going to have to stop and tour

1921
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:11,240
because things are changing
enough now that yes, you can be

1922
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:14,600
as good as you've ever been,
maybe better, but you have to

1923
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:17,080
focus on this.
You cannot carry a full time

1924
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:22,920
account job and get better at
how you're being asked to do

1925
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:28,040
these touring jobs.
So I don't I'll share some hard

1926
01:48:28,040 --> 01:48:30,040
information.
I had to make a decision that

1927
01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:35,760
you either have to dig in and
work harder because you're going

1928
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:37,080
to end up with no rabbits if you
don't.

1929
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:41,520
And I just kind of then and
after that I did program some

1930
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:44,640
local shows, but I, that's kind
of when I was all like, you

1931
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:47,320
know, you're not going to offer
yourself up for touring anymore

1932
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:51,640
because you, you have to, for
your own Peace of Mind, be at a

1933
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:54,240
certain level and you're going
to have to do some more

1934
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:58,800
training, you know?
And like we've been saying, even

1935
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:00,520
even though we haven't even
touched on, but you know,

1936
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:03,680
lighting technology is
constantly changing.

1937
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:07,000
You know, everything is
changing, everything is evolving

1938
01:49:07,360 --> 01:49:10,560
and you've got to stay on it.
You know you can't be doing 2

1939
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:12,280
jobs.
You know, one on this side, one

1940
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:15,640
on the side, and you.
Can I did for a long time, but

1941
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:18,760
but maybe it was just that
timing that kind of like it was

1942
01:49:18,760 --> 01:49:21,200
just that time.
Sometimes things change and

1943
01:49:21,200 --> 01:49:23,880
shift and that was a shift for
me and I still miss it.

1944
01:49:23,880 --> 01:49:26,640
So, you know, it's like poking A
bruise and people are like, Oh,

1945
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:30,560
you used to be.
And I'm like, listen, yeah,

1946
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:33,200
thanks.
So, you know, if I may, because,

1947
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:35,720
you know, we might be rounding
this up, what I would say where

1948
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:42,440
I am now is for, you know, and
you can, you know, you'd maybe

1949
01:49:42,440 --> 01:49:46,160
edit some of this, but I just,
you know, where I am now.

1950
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:49,240
I really want to say help
vendors help you.

1951
01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:52,920
You know, I see lighting designs
every day.

1952
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:57,040
Please give me your modes.
Quit having me chase you around

1953
01:49:57,040 --> 01:49:59,640
for your fixture modes.
Quit telling me that I should

1954
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:04,320
just assume that you want an
extended 91 Spyder.

1955
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:07,440
Do you do?
You really do.

1956
01:50:07,480 --> 01:50:11,000
You really like, I understand
that in your creative position

1957
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:13,640
you might not have talked about
the money, but let me tell you,

1958
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:17,080
there's a big difference between
4 universes and 35 universes in

1959
01:50:17,080 --> 01:50:20,440
networking, right?
Like it's one thing to throw in

1960
01:50:20,440 --> 01:50:24,760
the cable, that's another thing
to not be given enough

1961
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:27,320
information.
You know, I joke all the time,

1962
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,200
like if you want to give me no
information, I'll do it for

1963
01:50:29,200 --> 01:50:31,320
$1,000,000.
If you want to cut the budget,

1964
01:50:31,480 --> 01:50:33,520
then give me more information,
right?

1965
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:36,360
The more information you give
me, the tighter I can make the

1966
01:50:36,360 --> 01:50:38,400
budget.
I'm happy to help you get where

1967
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:40,960
you want to be.
That's what I would want to say.

1968
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:43,800
People don't want to have a
conversation, you know, and now

1969
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:46,200
maybe I'm going out there a
little bit, but people will.

1970
01:50:46,600 --> 01:50:49,960
I understand why they ask it,
but people will say, how much is

1971
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:54,000
that one piece of gear?
And I understand they're like,

1972
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:56,000
well, I've asked you for fifty
of those pieces instead of

1973
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:58,360
giving me, you know, the
combination plate quote.

1974
01:50:58,360 --> 01:51:01,440
If you gave me the a la carte
quote, I could maybe do some of

1975
01:51:01,440 --> 01:51:02,880
that work without asking you
again.

1976
01:51:03,080 --> 01:51:07,520
But what I want to say is, you
know, how much is a plane flight

1977
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:14,200
from San Francisco to Dallas?
How much is that?

1978
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:19,640
And they were like, what?
And I'm like, well, yeah, yeah.

1979
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:23,000
So depends, right?
It's the same thing with vendor

1980
01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:25,320
chip.
It depends, you know, and just

1981
01:51:25,480 --> 01:51:30,120
find somebody you can work with
so you know, you can get better

1982
01:51:30,120 --> 01:51:35,040
vendor outcomes without making
it like it's like it's a Home

1983
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:37,320
Depot transactional.
Have a conversation, make a

1984
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:40,160
relationship, try to get the
information early, try to

1985
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:42,520
honestly give the information
you have and honestly, once

1986
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:45,880
again, do the work.
Send me the modes.

1987
01:51:46,400 --> 01:51:48,640
Are you really going to have
time to do 91 channel spiders?

1988
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:51,560
I mean, if you have a complete
show that you're just going to

1989
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:58,320
clone or something, maybe.
But, but you know, I, I recently

1990
01:51:58,320 --> 01:52:01,880
listened to Ethan Weber's
interview with you guys and he

1991
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:03,920
said the same thing.
I just want basics.

1992
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:07,480
Please give us that information
because here's another thing.

1993
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:09,840
When you're sending this out to
bid because you think you're

1994
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:14,640
going to get the best bid and
make it the least expensive, or

1995
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,080
maybe you think you just want to
keep your favorite vendor

1996
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:20,360
honest.
You're giving them so much

1997
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:23,400
opportunity to just give you the
bare minimum.

1998
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:25,960
People tell me all the time,
Kim, I'd like 200 lights.

1999
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:28,680
I'd like some consoles and a
complete system.

2000
01:52:29,480 --> 01:52:30,680
Really.
Because I can give you a

2001
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:33,440
complete system that is just
bare bones.

2002
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,400
It's a complete system.
And then you push back at me

2003
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:38,760
because now you're embarrassed.
You're being told that to do

2004
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:40,920
what you really wanted to do,
what you knew you wanted to do

2005
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:44,800
and didn't tell us is now adding
a few $1000 for that networking.

2006
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:47,880
When in fact, why don't you just
put everything on the plate

2007
01:52:48,520 --> 01:52:52,280
Because they're savvy.
The vendors are savvy.

2008
01:52:52,440 --> 01:52:57,080
And if you we can be to the
letter of your RF specs.

2009
01:52:57,760 --> 01:53:00,600
And then when you come back and
you go, oh, but I meant this and

2010
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:04,640
you should have known, right?
That's fair.

2011
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:09,360
So, so really do do your
homework, decide how you want to

2012
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:13,800
use that light, right?
And, and also when I came to

2013
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:16,840
Felix, I had a lot of
experience, but I had to lean in

2014
01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:20,520
again, the specs on every new
thing, right?

2015
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:24,080
How many lumens, how many, how
many attributes?

2016
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:26,120
You know, I have to do that
work.

2017
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:28,200
I have to know my inventory.
I have to know if what you're

2018
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:31,520
asking for, if I've got anything
that can be comparable if I

2019
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:33,120
don't have exactly what you're
asking for.

2020
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:36,080
Although here I often do, which
is nice.

2021
01:53:36,440 --> 01:53:41,040
But you're, I mean, you're
constantly evolved like any job,

2022
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:43,880
any job or position that you've
gone through throughout your

2023
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:50,800
whole career, you are constantly
relearning all the time.

2024
01:53:52,360 --> 01:53:54,520
Well, I'm easily bored, so I
guess that's good.

2025
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:57,880
Although that is the thing I'm
working on, the thing that I

2026
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:01,280
work on, that the thing that I
give myself for advice is, Kim,

2027
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:02,400
you need to be a little more
easy.

2028
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:05,120
Like Sunday morning.
You need to do a little bit more

2029
01:54:05,120 --> 01:54:08,040
or you can say nothing.
A little bit more easy, right?

2030
01:54:08,440 --> 01:54:11,680
Because sometimes if you're
always pushing for the answer,

2031
01:54:11,680 --> 01:54:14,520
you don't let the answer come on
its own.

2032
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:17,160
Yeah.
And so those are always the

2033
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:19,520
lessons I have to keep
relearning is like, oh, maybe

2034
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:22,160
you could say nothing, or maybe
you could just be easy, like a

2035
01:54:22,160 --> 01:54:27,160
Sunday morning, you know, and,
and just just there you go.

2036
01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:32,280
Again, but that's good that
comes with experience to be that

2037
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:34,440
way.
I think you know, when you, when

2038
01:54:34,440 --> 01:54:36,920
you come into this industry at
the very beginning, you're

2039
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:39,720
jumping in and you've got this
energy, you've got everything

2040
01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:43,480
and it's shiny lights and it's
all this, it's all that.

2041
01:54:43,600 --> 01:54:46,720
And then you're like, actually
just just step back a bit.

2042
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:50,360
Step back, step back, take it
in.

2043
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:57,280
Learn a new thing today.
And self realization, like what?

2044
01:54:57,280 --> 01:54:59,960
How you think you'll come across
and how you actually come across

2045
01:55:00,240 --> 01:55:03,720
are often different.
You know no one knows your

2046
01:55:03,720 --> 01:55:08,120
intention.
No, I always used to say that I

2047
01:55:08,120 --> 01:55:11,920
I used to say like if I had, you
know, like a one or a one or two

2048
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:15,160
day gig really.
And this is this is going to

2049
01:55:15,160 --> 01:55:18,560
make me sound, but nobody like
me, you know, anything I've

2050
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:20,840
done, if I've done like a one or
two day, No, everyone would be

2051
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:24,160
like, because I would want, if I
had time, I would actually, you

2052
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:27,040
know, try and do stuff, you
know, for any, for anyone or

2053
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:29,480
anything.
And people were like or, or I'd

2054
01:55:29,480 --> 01:55:31,000
have.
I have a lot of energy.

2055
01:55:31,400 --> 01:55:33,440
So I wake up in the morning, I'm
happy.

2056
01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:36,760
Yeah, terrific.
Yeah, really.

2057
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:39,600
I, I when I'm at work, this is
how I am.

2058
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:42,760
I'm happy all day until the last
minute.

2059
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:45,680
Really.
I don't, I don't I, this is it.

2060
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:50,000
People that see me for these two
days see me like this.

2061
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:54,040
In fact, a very good friend of
mine to this day, I, I was on

2062
01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:56,880
tour with her and she didn't
like me at the start.

2063
01:55:57,400 --> 01:56:00,960
And she used to say to me, sure,
she can't be that happy all the

2064
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:05,080
time.
And honestly, and she gave me so

2065
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:08,560
much shit, like so much.
And to this day we are very good

2066
01:56:08,560 --> 01:56:10,920
friends.
And she's like Sarah.

2067
01:56:10,920 --> 01:56:14,120
She's I tell everybody like, you
know what, what you see with her

2068
01:56:14,120 --> 01:56:17,720
is what you get.
There is no like I'm generally,

2069
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:21,880
I'm going to be this way.
And if I see someone that's

2070
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,480
tired, I'm going to go up to
them and try and lift them up.

2071
01:56:27,240 --> 01:56:31,320
And for me, like, the longer,
the longer the tour was always

2072
01:56:31,320 --> 01:56:35,280
better because by the end of it,
people could really see me short

2073
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:36,480
things.
They just thought I was a

2074
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:40,800
weirdo.
I, I can feel that, you know, a

2075
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:44,400
little driven, you know, you
don't know that, that some

2076
01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:49,600
people that's, you know, that,
that that pushes them back, you

2077
01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:52,840
know, and based on their
personality, based on their

2078
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:59,520
experiences, you know, I, I was
given this advice once and I

2079
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:03,920
have to other folks that have a
similar personality, I've been

2080
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:07,560
able to help them with.
Does this need to be said?

2081
01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:10,520
Does this need to be said right
now?

2082
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:14,920
Does this need to be said by me?
Like if somebody didn't say,

2083
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:18,200
Kim, what do you think?
Maybe you should be easy like a

2084
01:57:18,200 --> 01:57:20,640
Sunday morning and just like let
it go.

2085
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:23,480
Yep.
Oh, you see things and it's

2086
01:57:23,480 --> 01:57:27,080
like, is that?
Is that my?

2087
01:57:27,520 --> 01:57:30,680
My is that.
Is that my cue or is?

2088
01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:34,320
That my cue just a term.
I needing to stay in my lane.

2089
01:57:34,760 --> 01:57:36,680
Right.
I understand maybe I need to

2090
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:40,400
stay in my lane, so yeah.
Yeah, don't, don't get involved

2091
01:57:40,400 --> 01:57:43,360
in other people's drama.
That's another one for me.

2092
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:48,080
Don't get involved with other
people's drama because it

2093
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:50,520
doesn't get you anywhere.
Like it really doesn't get you

2094
01:57:50,520 --> 01:57:53,720
anywhere.
You know, you can help in a

2095
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:56,480
certain way if someone comes to
you, you know, maybe they were

2096
01:57:56,480 --> 01:58:01,800
upset or they're sad, whatever,
but don't literally purposely

2097
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:06,840
put yourself in the position
where you're you've seen

2098
01:58:06,840 --> 01:58:10,000
something.
So you like go to I'm going to

2099
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:12,800
say to find out the gossip, but
be that person.

2100
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:17,120
You can be there if people want
to come to you, but don't really

2101
01:58:17,120 --> 01:58:20,480
don't be that person either
because that doesn't get you

2102
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:22,280
anywhere either because you get
in the middle of it.

2103
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:27,560
And and having a having an
opinion, you know, often is not

2104
01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:30,560
a good thing either to give your
like we were saying about

2105
01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:35,040
recommending people, you know,
giving people a recommendation

2106
01:58:35,040 --> 01:58:38,040
is very dangerous or giving
people your opinion.

2107
01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:41,200
I know we're kind of doing this
here on chatting, but you know,

2108
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:46,080
in the working environment,
giving your opinion can often be

2109
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:51,560
very damaging to try and build
two people's relationship back

2110
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:53,680
up together.
That's that's.

2111
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:56,840
Yeah.
That's that's very, that's very

2112
01:58:56,840 --> 01:59:00,880
real.
And again, I've seen that a lot

2113
01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:03,280
of times, you know, been part of
it all as well.

2114
01:59:04,480 --> 01:59:07,480
But is there, is there anything
else you'd like to that's on

2115
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:09,800
your mind to bring up to, to say
now?

2116
01:59:09,800 --> 01:59:13,640
Because yeah, this is all yours
to continue if you have

2117
01:59:13,640 --> 01:59:17,840
something that's on your mind.
I think, I think we've touched

2118
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:22,400
on most things.
I, you know, I would say if I'm

2119
01:59:22,400 --> 01:59:29,280
talking to folks that are new, I
would say across the board, be

2120
01:59:29,280 --> 01:59:32,680
confident in your decisions and
be flexible.

2121
01:59:33,360 --> 01:59:35,800
People want to see you be
confident in your decisions.

2122
01:59:36,440 --> 01:59:40,120
You know, they want you to lead
them in a direction and then be

2123
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:42,760
flexible when pressed about
that.

2124
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:46,320
You know, try to be open, try to
be knowledgeable enough so that

2125
01:59:46,320 --> 01:59:50,400
you can, you know, either gently
say maybe we can try that next

2126
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:55,000
time or do I have the time in
this house with a similar

2127
01:59:55,000 --> 01:59:58,000
outcome maybe to change what
we're doing here?

2128
01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:05,840
I think I think early on, right,
if if you're trying to get

2129
02:00:06,560 --> 02:00:09,000
consensus, it's not all, it
doesn't always work.

2130
02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:11,680
And just that that doesn't seem
strong.

2131
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:13,160
Like you need to have
confidence.

2132
02:00:13,160 --> 02:00:19,560
People want that from you.
So that that would be that also.

2133
02:00:20,680 --> 02:00:24,440
Just just try to like people and
forgive people for being people.

2134
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:28,960
I think there's a time in my
career where I thought it would

2135
02:00:28,960 --> 02:00:32,640
be cool to not like people
because they can be stupid and

2136
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:35,560
abrasive.
And it sometimes seems to be

2137
02:00:35,560 --> 02:00:38,680
cool to be cynical.
But that really kind of takes

2138
02:00:38,680 --> 02:00:44,920
yourself down, you know, maybe
there aren't people who you want

2139
02:00:44,920 --> 02:00:48,960
to hang out with whatever, but
kind of just let people be

2140
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:53,320
people and just understand, just
understand that that a sea is a

2141
02:00:53,320 --> 02:00:56,320
passing grade people, right.
So sometimes it can be

2142
02:00:56,320 --> 02:00:58,720
frustrating and work that you
want to know why can't they just

2143
02:00:58,720 --> 02:00:59,840
pick it up?
Is it that hard?

2144
02:00:59,840 --> 02:01:02,280
Well, you know, maybe it is.
And if it's not that hard for

2145
02:01:02,280 --> 02:01:06,680
you, well then maybe that's a
blessing for you, but it but it

2146
02:01:06,680 --> 02:01:10,280
certainly isn't it isn't easy
and life is not fair.

2147
02:01:10,360 --> 02:01:14,400
So just, you know, all those
things to try to, you know, self

2148
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:17,480
soothe, understand how to self
soothe yourself too, understand

2149
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:22,920
how to, how to recognize that
you're the person who is also

2150
02:01:22,920 --> 02:01:27,000
part of this communication and
how you can, you know, soothe

2151
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:29,720
yourself when it things don't go
your way.

2152
02:01:29,720 --> 02:01:33,360
I guess just keep just keep at
it, right?

2153
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:36,760
Make some goals.
And I want people to have them

2154
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:39,040
because a lot of people, you
know, that's the hardest thing.

2155
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:40,080
They don't know what they want
to do.

2156
02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:44,160
So it is good to have an
opportunity to you know, say see

2157
02:01:44,160 --> 02:01:49,400
where there's, see like you
said, see where there are

2158
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:52,600
careers because you know, there
are a lot of different, there

2159
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:53,960
are a lot of with different ways
to do it.

2160
02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:58,680
There is certainly.
Well Kim, thank you so much for

2161
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:01,520
coming on.
I really, really enjoyed this

2162
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:04,720
with you and I said I can't but
I mean I only because I looked

2163
02:02:04,720 --> 02:02:07,120
down 2 hours but really I could
talk forever.

2164
02:02:08,000 --> 02:02:09,840
I really hope.
Are you going to LDI this year?

2165
02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:13,240
I try to make it every year.
Yes, OK.

2166
02:02:13,280 --> 02:02:16,480
Well, I really hope, I'm sure
we'll be in contact for that

2167
02:02:16,480 --> 02:02:17,640
anyway.
But I really hope to see you at

2168
02:02:17,640 --> 02:02:21,960
LDI again.
I wish you a fabulous summer and

2169
02:02:22,120 --> 02:02:25,200
thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you very much Sarah for

2170
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:42,840
having me.
Now here's the leading ladies by

2171
02:02:42,840 --> 02:02:49,240
Geezers of Gear on tour.
Maybe she got some stories to

2172
02:02:49,320 --> 02:02:53,760
share.
Now here's the leading ladies by

2173
02:02:53,760 --> 02:03:00,280
the Geezers of Gear, Rockstar
ladies with some stories to

2174
02:03:00,440 --> 02:03:08,040
share because La La La La la
ladies.

2175
02:03:13,560 --> 02:03:19,440
La La La La La La la ladies.
Yes, she's a high.

2176
02:03:23,200 --> 02:03:31,760
Now here's the leading ladies by
geezers of gear Rock star ladies

2177
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:35,080
for some stories to share.
Now here's the.