#300 - Steve Watts

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Well, hello, and here you are at
episode 300.

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Wow.
Like who knew?

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Who knew we were going to make
it to 300?

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It's a pretty cool
accomplishment and I'm kind of

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excited about it.
And today's guest I'm very

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excited about as well.
Steve has been a great friend of

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mine for probably over 30 years
now.

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We've had a lot of fun together.
We've made some pretty good

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business together as well.
And.

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Just a great guy and have a lot
of fun with him and stuff.

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And we had some pretty
interesting conversations that

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went from early lighting all the
way through to where we're at

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today.
A little bit about AI, of

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course.
And and yeah, we even got into

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some politics, which was
something I try not to do.

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But anyways, it's a great
podcast.

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I hope you like it.
It was fun.

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Hello and thank you for joining
me today on a very special

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episode number 300.
Today's podcast is brought to

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you by Main Light.
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Episode 300 is also brought to

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you by Elation, a privately held
corporation established in 1992

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and headquartered in Los
Angeles.

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All products are developed and
engineered in the United States,

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with sales and support office
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Europe, and distribution via a
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Please join me in watching the
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Pulse Series.
Here we are episode 300.

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Who knew?
Who the heck knew this was going

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to last 90%?
I want to give you some

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statistics here.
It's pretty wild.

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I looked this up because I was
like, what are we doing that's

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so special?
And so 90% of podcasts stop

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publishing within their first 3
episodes. 33 episodes.

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That's crazy. 90% of the
remaining 10% quit after 20

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episodes.
So that means by 20 episodes,

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there's only 10% left, I think,
if I'm doing the math correct.

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So wait a SEC, no, 10% of 10%.
So what the heck is that

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anyways?
Not very many, not very many are

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left after after 20 episodes.
And less than 20% of new

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podcasts launched in 2025 are
expected to survive into 2026,

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which is wild.
And finally, just over 2% of

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podcasts get a three get to 300
episodes 2%.

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So 2 out of every 120 out of
every 1000 podcasts make it to

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300 episodes.
So we're now in officially in

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the top 2% of podcasters.
Yay.

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And Speaking of new podcasters,
So I love talking with

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podcasters, people who are
getting into it and who need

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support and help and ideas and
thoughts of how to do it.

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So I'm putting this out there if
if you happen to be starting a

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podcast, feel free to reach out
to me.

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I'm happy to share information,
ideas, what gear you should use,

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what gear you shouldn't use,
what platform you should use,

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just all kinds of things.
I'm constantly evolving.

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In fact, this week you might
notice I have a new microphone

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and I'm actually I've gotten
away from using a mixing

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console.
So now instead of a board, the

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microphone plugs straight into
USB in a USB hub and then makes

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its way into my laptop.
So and all the DSP now is

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digital.
It's an app on my computer.

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So instead of going into a
console and managing the sound

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there, I'm doing it through ADSP
in my computer.

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And it just makes it easier to
travel.

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I can use the exact same setup
wherever I go.

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I don't have to carry a bunch of
gear around with me.

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So very cool.
But Speaking of these new, new

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podcasters, So I've had two
people reach out to me in the

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last week alone.
And 1 is a friend from racing

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who's a former GE engineer, very
smart guy, very, very bright

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man.
And he's a flyer.

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He's a pilot and is is he moved
very rapidly through becoming a

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pilot and then next thing you
know he's a trainer and he's

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training and gliding and all
kinds of stuff.

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He's just, he's head first into
it and very smart guy.

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But he says, hey, I want to
start a podcasting, a podcast on

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aviation and you know, I've done
a lot of research on gear and on

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tools and on software and stuff.
Can you help me?

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And so originally I thought, you
know, this is going to be 1/2

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hour, 45 minutes.
We've literally got probably 10

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hours of talking to each other,
just geeking out on new gear,

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new technology, all kinds of
stuff.

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And at the end, he's using
almost the same thing I'm using.

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It's just he's got this big
empty room in his house and he's

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turned it into a full blown
podcast studio.

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So it's all really nicely lit.
He's got color back there and

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cool images and pictures and
stuff.

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So I'm a little bit jealous that
you know, this newbie who I'm

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teaching how to do a podcast is,
is, has already got a better

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setup than I do.
And then the other one is in

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Wellness.
He's, he's got a Wellness

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business and around his Wellness
business, he wanted to create a

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podcast.
So I'm helping him.

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So again, I'm throwing this out
there.

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Anybody needs help to start up a
podcast, just let me know and

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I'm happy to help you as I
always AM.

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And that's for free.
I'm not a consultant or

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anything.
I'm a consultant, but I'm a dumb

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one who doesn't charge anything
for my consulting.

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And So what else did I want to
talk about?

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Oh, I want to mention that we
get support in in a couple of

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different ways.
First, from our listeners who

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can like subscribe, share any of
our episodes with friends and

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that helps us a lot.
It increases the numbers.

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And at the end of the day,
people love listening to

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podcasts that have big numbers.
And we're in a very niche

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industry, so our numbers are
never going to be that big.

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But we'd love for every podcast
to get at least 5 or 6000

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downloads.
And right now we don't get that.

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I would say very few get to 5 or
6000.

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Most will get to at least 1000,
which is still a big number for

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our industry, but we're
definitely looking to increase

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those numbers and we can do that
by you liking subscribing and

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sharing.
Pardon me, our podcast and 2nd

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through sponsorship.
So obviously you here at the

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beginning of all of our
episodes, you're hearing these

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sponsors, you see them come on
podcasts and talk about their

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amazing companies, products,
life, whatever.

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And so through sponsorship, we
are able to pay our bills.

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We're able to pay the lovely
Sarah and we're able to continue

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growing the podcast.
So if you, your company, are

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interested in becoming a sponsor
for Geezers of Gear, you just

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have to shoot an e-mail to
producer@geezersofgear.com.

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That'll go to Sarah and she'll
reach out to you with more

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information.
I think you'll find it's a lot

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less expensive and there's a lot
more value than you might even

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know.
And as an example, Future Tech

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that just came out a few weeks
ago is wildly popular.

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It's getting great numbers and
and so that's a very high tech.

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It's made with AI and that is
available currently anyways for

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free for our exist existing
sponsors.

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And so we don't charge anything
additional for that.

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So you're getting basically
double the exposure and you're

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getting your press releases put
out on a podcast, which is

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pretty incredible.
So reach out to us if you'd like

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to become a sponsor.
And finally, I just want to

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really thank everyone.
You know, this knucklehead in

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2019 decides to go out and do
something I probably had no

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business doing.
I started a podcast and thought,

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you know what, I'm going to have
enough interesting stories and

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interesting people to talk to.
And God knows, I might get to 50

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episodes and it'll be fun doing
it.

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And then next thing you know, it
becomes a lifestyle.

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And I'm doing practically 2
episodes a week right now.

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So I appreciate every single one
of you for listening.

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I appreciate all three hundred
of our guests.

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And I appreciate Sarah, my
sometimes Co host and and

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producer.
And she does all the hard work

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to make sure these things go out
every week.

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And yeah, I just, I love doing
this.

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I appreciate it.
I appreciate the position I'm

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in.
I it's a lot of gratitude here.

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And so thank you for the first
300.

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I promise you we're going to do
another 300.

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So you're stuck with me for a
little while longer if I can get

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rid of this cough.
And so today's guest is a good

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friend of mine for a very, very
long time.

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And he reached out to me a long
time ago.

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It's pretty funny.
He reached out and said, Marcel,

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I don't care what it takes, but
I am #300 I want to be on #300

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And so I said, you know what,
let's make that happen.

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And so we decided to make him
#300 And I'm sorry, but I got to

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take a sip of my water because I
can't stop choking here for some

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crazy reason.
So today's guest, if you're in

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England and you're in our
industry, you probably know him.

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If you're not in England and
you're not in our industry, you

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probably don't.
I mean, unless he owes you money

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or something.
Steve Watts is the founder and

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managing director of Abstract
AVR.

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He's a pioneer in LED lighting,
innovation and architectural,

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entertainment and commercial
sectors.

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With over 35 years in the
industry.

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He's designed groundbreaking
products like the Twister, one

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of the most reproduced disco
lights, and the VR8 Intelligence

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scanner.
From his early days as a DJ and

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lighting designer in Europe to
revolutionizing LED solutions

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for major brands like Topshop,
Asda, Asta, Asta, Sorry, Steve

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has always been ahead of the
curve.

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A licensed helicopter pilot had
been on his helicopter.

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It was a scary experience, but
we'll talk about that later.

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And relentless innovator, he
continues to push the boundaries

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of lighting technology, ensuring
Abstract AVR remains at the

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forefront of the industry.
I'm really looking forward to

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this.
Please welcome Mr. Steve Watts.

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Steven, Hello myself.
How are you?

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You know, I'm, I'm very good,
thank you.

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Yeah.
You have the fanciest background

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I think we've ever had on this
show, except the last time you

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were on it.
Look.

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I I owe, I owe, I owe my entire
life to the entertainment

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industry.
Don't I really?

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Yeah, like literally probably.
It was literally I started in

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entertainment when I was 13
years old and I and I went and

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bought myself all the kit on my
mum's credit card, obviously

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started my own mobile disco
roadshow.

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And that's what's behind you
there right now.

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Well, that's kind of, I guess
it's a little.

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Updated it's got some LEDs and
stuff, but yeah, it looks it

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looks cool.
Now I know you've you've been in

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it for life like you absolutely.
We'll get into how you and I

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met, but so you you were a
mobile DJ at 13 and then what?

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Yeah, 13.
And then kind of like, I guess I

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00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,320
came a little bit
entrepreneurial, started trying

228
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,960
to build my own speakers as you
do.

229
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,080
The solder pair blew up on the
first night.

230
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,960
And you thought maybe, maybe
sound isn't my thing.

231
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,080
I learned very quickly that
customer service wasn't my

232
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,000
strongest point.
Right.

233
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,480
Yeah, well, you've figured it
out a bit over the years.

234
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,840
I.
Think out over the years that

235
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,000
sound was not for me and and I
did an awful lot better job with

236
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,160
lighting than ever did with
yeah, we tried I tried smoke

237
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:08,840
machines.
I tried a bit of everything over

238
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,960
the years, but lighting was the
one and it was kind of a real

239
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,560
funny twist of fate.
You know, like when you were you

240
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:19,920
were a mobile on DJI was working
for a High Street store selling

241
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,920
high is ironically, and this
bloke came down and says, oh,

242
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,000
can you sell me hi-fi.
So I played a a tape to him,

243
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,840
which I was a DJ on trying to
sell him the eye Fi and he goes,

244
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,440
is that you on there Says yeah,
he goes, why don't you you DJ

245
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,360
says yes, why don't you become
an international DJ and come and

246
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,760
work for me in in Denmark.
And so it like 17 years old.

247
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,680
I left home.
An offer went to Denmark.

248
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,880
That's hilarious.
OK, right.

249
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,920
Here's the kicker, right.
Two years later, I was in in a

250
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,840
nightclub called Mikmak in
Carlton Kirkin in Hamburg.

251
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,000
And this German guy came up to
the DJ Pipuv.

252
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,040
He's talking to me.
He says, oh, do you speak

253
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:03,960
German?
I said, yeah, yeah, I could

254
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:04,960
speak German.
Yes.

255
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,800
Well, I speak no English and I
need a a translator.

256
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,320
Would you like to come and work
for me?

257
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,040
But in this go lighting company
in Madrid, Spain, right.

258
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,840
And I went, yeah.
Well then you spoke enough

259
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,320
German to be able to translate
for this guy.

260
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,480
You can I'll find this as good
as Deutsche.

261
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,760
BECKEN, OH.
Not as good as.

262
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,000
Would you?
Would you like cream and sugar

263
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,640
with that, Sir?
Not as good as, but.

264
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,240
Yeah, yeah.
And that's, that's where I,

265
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,560
that's where I went to, to, to
Spain and started to learn to

266
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,880
manufacture disco night.
It's in Pepe's copper loose.

267
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,360
It was called where all the
where all the sort of like, you

268
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,560
know, the satells and all those
early, early adopters of disco

269
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:48,040
lights.
I.

270
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,200
Remember Satell A?
Staff that and their own

271
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,680
businesses, right?
And there I was and I couldn't

272
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,520
speak of a single word of
Spanish.

273
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,840
So that was a real problem
because they're all Spanish,

274
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:00,520
right?
Yeah.

275
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,560
So I remember Dave, Dave from
Jive Life, who was a massive

276
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,400
distributor of disco lights in
England, rang up Coppola and

277
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,560
said, oh, these scanner things,
you know, the motors keep

278
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,400
dropping off, can you fix it?
So I had to go on the production

279
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,320
line and fix the problem, then
show the Spanish how to fix it.

280
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,800
Right.
So I'll learn to build lights.

281
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,360
Really.
Yeah.

282
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,680
Interesting mission.
I said, look, you, you started

283
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440
designing them.
So I designed probably a range

284
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,320
of 10 lights, including one bin,
of course, a twister.

285
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,680
But it was like I was the size
and the way we, the way we built

286
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,840
it was, you know, the, you know,
the old sort of like sort of

287
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,640
spotlights, searchlights,
massive big lenses.

288
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:49,040
So I got one of them, a 575 Watt
bulb, yeah, which was discharge.

289
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,400
And then we had these like
dustbin lids, I used to call

290
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,720
them right.
And we put mirrors all on it and

291
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,320
turned it into this huge
moonflower.

292
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,040
And that was the twister.
And that was a twister.

293
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,680
So when I came back from from
Spain, I thought to myself, I've

294
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,640
got to make one of these for
mobile DJs, haven't I?

295
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,800
That's how the Twister started.
That was the very, very first

296
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,880
Twister, and we went to Plaza in
1991.

297
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,599
So wait a second though, were
you abstract by now?

298
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,040
Yeah.
Well, when I came back from when

299
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,680
I came back from Spain, I
started up in a garage in the

300
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,319
garage, right, Tiny little
house.

301
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,119
I had two-bedroom house and a
garage and that's where I

302
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,880
started building the twister,
right.

303
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,560
Yeah.
And that's where abstract was

304
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,280
was formed out of a garage.
And I used abstract because it

305
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,640
began with an A And in the olden
days you had the Yellow Pages.

306
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,120
I don't know what you had in
America.

307
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:42,200
Right.
No, of course.

308
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,000
Yeah.
So it was like AAA lighting A A

309
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,160
a lighting company.
AA lighting because it didn't

310
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,680
make any sense.
AB was the next nearest 1, so

311
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,280
you'd come up first the search,
right?

312
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,680
Yeah, that's abstract.
That's why it was abstract.

313
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,600
That's funny.
It is, but the the you know the

314
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,360
fun thing is in 1991.
Try.

315
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,240
Explaining that to your kids or
your kids kids, you know what I

316
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:02,920
mean?
They'll be like.

317
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,120
You know, it is that Chuck Davis
from American DJ came onto the

318
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,600
stand in 1991.
He saw this twister, right?

319
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,000
And he went, Oh my God, that's
so spooky, right?

320
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,400
Because no matter how loud I've
made the music or how soft I

321
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,360
made the music, it's still dance
to the music.

322
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,000
It was the circuit that's
inside.

323
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,320
It was an old dancing flower.
Do you remember them?

324
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,160
I don't.
Them, them flowers.

325
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,880
And you, you, you make a sound.
Oh yeah, that's right.

326
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,680
That's hilarious.
That's the sounds light system

327
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,280
in a.
Twist.

328
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,400
Is that true?
Because you know, I was going to

329
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,720
ask you like you always had the
best sound to light of like the

330
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,200
Chinese, the European fixtures,
none of that stuff worked near

331
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,800
as well as yours did.
Your sound to light was just

332
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,200
smooth and on time.
What?

333
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,640
Do you think right is I was
coming back from Cornwall with

334
00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:01,320
my first wife Marcia and we'd
got about £20 left right and

335
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,640
times were hard back in the
early days and so it was either

336
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,360
the £20 were on petrol or a
split it 10 LB petrol £10 and I

337
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,520
bought a dancing flower and when
I got home she.

338
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,440
Probably wanted to kill you at
this point.

339
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,400
Split dancing power in half
right Took me to pieces all over

340
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,320
the floor.
She's like what?

341
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,640
What the hell are you doing
right?

342
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,800
And so I said I'll need the
board out of this because it's a

343
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,760
little 5 Volt battery board.
And then I took it down to the

344
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,440
electronics place and turned it
into a triac driven 240 Volt.

345
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,360
Yeah.
Let me ask you though, you see

346
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,080
this dancing flower in the
petrol station and you think I

347
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,240
got to have that?
That's my new lighting fixture.

348
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:46,560
Absolutely like that and it when
all right and I went when come

349
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,840
on, hang on a minute.
This is really that's hilarious.

350
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,280
So so that's why I had to have
it right.

351
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,640
And so that wild twister and the
twister was like insanely

352
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,880
excellent sounds like but.
Did you go to the company that

353
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,280
like did you find out who made
that little chip and or did you

354
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,520
just copy the chip, reverse
engineered it?

355
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,440
Like, yeah, and this was
something in it, yeah, bits out

356
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,840
of it and reconfigured it into
a.

357
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,240
Maintenance.
I mean, can you tell me at this

358
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,720
point what was so special about
it, why it was different?

359
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,360
It what it had was an automatic
gain control on it and AG's

360
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,280
which allowed it to go up and
down ramp and then just take the

361
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,560
difference.
Between the Yeah, yeah, yeah.

362
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,840
Well, because they usually had a
little volume control and you

363
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,360
could either set it for really
loud or for really quiet, and it

364
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,600
was always screwed up somewhere
in between, you know?

365
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,680
Program systemi obviously we're
very annoyed because they had

366
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,520
the knob on the back, so you
know, so mine had none of that.

367
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,520
It was just microphone and it
just went right.

368
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:52,040
Yeah, we sold over civilian
like, Oh no, it's it's retarded

369
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,120
amounts here.
Yeah, it's way over 10,000 more.

370
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,880
It'll be way more.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

371
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,800
Not many.
It was absolutely ridiculous.

372
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,560
It was obviously the twisted
one.

373
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,400
The twist 2 the twist, 3 the
twist.

374
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,160
Well, I remember I used to take
the piss because like every year

375
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,640
at the trade show, every year
you'd you'd get up with your

376
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,560
suit on and you'd go accept your
award for the Twister, whatever

377
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,200
number it was this time, right.
That's the just the lighting

378
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,400
product goes to Steve Watts from
Abstract for the Twister 17.

379
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,000
But the but the fun thing is
that every and even to this day,

380
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,400
every single Chinese light has
got the DNA of that dancing

381
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960
flower in it.
Yeah, well, I mean, it all

382
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,640
started somewhere, right?
And that's one of the things

383
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,240
probably I like the most about
this podcast is almost every

384
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:45,360
person on here is some sort of
a, you know, the beginning of

385
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,440
whether it's a speaker system or
a technology or a lighting

386
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,560
package or controls or
something.

387
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,080
All these people were there at
the formation of this industry,

388
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,720
right?
And you were, they were very

389
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,320
early in the disco lighting side
of things, you know.

390
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,160
I know you, you often laugh and
you always giggle because

391
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,920
obviously I've, I've had a major
sort of following, you know, of

392
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,800
PT Johansson.
But that's only because at the

393
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,800
time, Peter was so pioneering
when it came, you know, with the

394
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,360
robo scans and all that, it was
super pioneering.

395
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,800
And every time I brought
something newer, it was like,

396
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,000
for me, hard.
That's great.

397
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,800
That's great.
Because I can take that concept

398
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,840
now.
I can make it even a little less

399
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,400
expensive than what he's done in
a little bit more.

400
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,640
Yeah.
And sell a ton of them.

401
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Right.
And.

402
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,920
Don't get me wrong, I admired
the hell out of that guy.

403
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,120
Like, it's just that in the end
it kind of went sideways, you

404
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,440
know?
And, and I was a victim of that.

405
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,240
Like I, I would have loved to
have continued my career at

406
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600
COMAR, but I couldn't.
I had to leave because I would

407
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480
have gone to jail.
You know, I didn't really have a

408
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,720
choice.
I had to get out of there.

409
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,280
Yeah.
I mean, it was Well, don't, I

410
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,440
don't know if you remember, but
the CFO for Komar in the US, his

411
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,880
name, he was a, a Danish guy,
you know his name, the CFO, the

412
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,800
guy who was.
Controlling the money flow like.

413
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,840
Peter.
Say it to me, I'll know.

414
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,200
Bent.
His name was Bent.

415
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,360
Go figure.
I mean, I don't know.

416
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,520
Could that be a sign?
I don't know.

417
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,640
Yeah.
So of.

418
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,120
Course every summer went to
Plaza and I see PCI haven't seen

419
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,360
it and I see Gerard coming with
it.

420
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,200
Yeah, yeah, Gerard's still doing
it.

421
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,720
He's did.
You see, he started a lighting

422
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,400
line with his sons, but Gerard's
involved.

423
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,640
Gerard's in his 80s now.
He's like 82 or 83 and God bless

424
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,360
him, he's still passionate about
it for some reason.

425
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,600
When are you sitting in your
blood though?

426
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,920
You're ready on here.
I guess like he's he, he is a

427
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,080
peddler to the core.
He loves selling things.

428
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,400
He loves talking to customers
and finding solutions and stuff.

429
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,120
And he still loves it.
Like every time he, he lives in

430
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:55,760
Belgium now and he flies in
through Miami, spends a few days

431
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,360
and always calls me and we'll go
out to lunch or dinner or

432
00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:59,680
something.
So I still see him.

433
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,360
It's a funny thing and and I I
believe with podcasts, you know,

434
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,000
you can only ever tell the truth
on a podcast because 2P too many

435
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,880
people.
No and then no.

436
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,240
You'll get called out.
Right.

437
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,600
And you're going to get called
out.

438
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,400
Oh.
Hell yeah.

439
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,200
And and that's why I love our
podcast, because it's so honest

440
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,400
and so truthful.
Another problem, though, Steve,

441
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,760
is as we get older, sometimes I
spin a story because I forget,

442
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:23,600
you know?
So I just kind of fill in the

443
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,480
blanks with what I remember and
people will call me and go, you

444
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,480
idiot, that wasn't Bob, that was
John or something.

445
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,440
It's like, you know, it's like
people like say Joseph, Yeah,

446
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,960
for Robe, you know, analysts
would never have been analysts

447
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,200
if it wasn't for me, you know,
and that's in reality because

448
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:46,240
AVR started all of that stuff
and then he got I analyst in it.

449
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,480
At the end of the day, that's
the true.

450
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,160
I find it looks kind of similar.
How you want to look at it, it's

451
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,520
the.
Trick and then they hire your

452
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,000
your mate and.
Then they hire, yeah, we get

453
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,320
that done because John, I think
it was John and Connor, I think

454
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,440
was involved in something.
Yeah, I mean in the house.

455
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,400
I'm not certainly not going to
get into the insurance now.

456
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:05,880
You know it doesn't matter
anyway.

457
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,520
Manufacturing then was done over
it robe yeah, that's that's how

458
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,920
I would put it together whether
it's yeah, don't know, but

459
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,520
that's how I see it.
Yeah, yeah.

460
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,480
And I think whatever that was.
Became analyst.

461
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,400
Yeah, exactly.
It's not that shocking to me.

462
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,640
You know it it like again,
nothing against Robey or

463
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,640
analysts or Han or anybody.
I like them all.

464
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,160
I was.
Looking at I was looking at

465
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,760
their website, Robey the other
day and you have to admire,

466
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,520
don't you?
You have to admire how far

467
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,080
that's gone from Jesus in 94 and
95 when it was.

468
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,800
Incredible.
It was applying somebody like

469
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,240
Steiniger or something in
Germany.

470
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,360
They were and Komar, Komar.
They were making the low end

471
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,080
Komar stuff.
They were making those, those

472
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,120
like the future light line, they
were making for everyone.

473
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,440
Of course, their growth then
was, was restricted by how well

474
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,400
the distributors did, wasn't it?
So I guess, you know, I guess

475
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,960
Jody thought, you know what, I
think I can do better than this.

476
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:04,160
But it was also and I had this,
I'll never forget the

477
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,200
conversation and Joseph, you
know, conveniently forgets it.

478
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,400
But Joseph and I, we were at
Remini and he had his little

479
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,560
booth there and, you know, tiny
little booth back in the corner

480
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:22,960
next to Co F or something, you
know, and and I said, Joseph,

481
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,360
why are you doing this?
Like white label stuff, you

482
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,600
know, this OEM manufacturing for
other companies or whatever.

483
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,640
Why are you doing this?
And he said, well, because, you

484
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,040
know, we're very popular now
because not everybody wants to

485
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,520
buy from China.
And I said, but you know, the

486
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,880
problem is you have to have the
lowest price because as soon as

487
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,840
you don't have the lowest price,
people are going to buy from

488
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,800
your neighbor or the guy down
the street.

489
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,560
And there were other companies
starting up in Poland in check.

490
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,800
I think it was bold with him to,
to, to sort of like sack all

491
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,600
that off and go, right.
I'm going for Robe.

492
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,000
But, but we had that
conversation and, and we both

493
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,640
agreed like you have to go out
as your own brand because

494
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,880
otherwise you're going to be a
low margin company that

495
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,200
eventually you're going to get
priced out and you won't be able

496
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,280
to compete in this white label
market and everybody will be

497
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,400
buying from China.
And so at least with your own

498
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,440
brand, you can protect it and
and we had a great conversation

499
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,400
about it.
So maybe it was you there was

500
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,320
this.
No, no, it certainly wasn't my

501
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280
idea.
He had plans, obviously, and he

502
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,760
obviously had capital too
because you know, to build what

503
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,760
he built, you don't need to
cheap.

504
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,480
His office in his in his office,
he's got every single magazine

505
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,920
ever from the, from every single
disco Mirror magazine, every

506
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,280
single really magazine, every
magazine you can think of to all

507
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,160
that.
That's a bit obsessive.

508
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:54,560
History of the entire industry.
Yeah, industry backwards because

509
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,960
research is just insane, you
know, Is it in in that respect

510
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:03,280
it beats, it beats probably 90%
of all manufacturers in that

511
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,920
respect, because I guess it's I
guess it's OCD in it.

512
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:08,560
Yeah, he really knows the
history and stuff.

513
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,640
I I actually spoke with him
recently, sadly at a, at a

514
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,800
funeral for one of his employees
and a long time friend of mine,

515
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Craig Burrows.
And we were talking about the

516
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,720
history of the industry and the
history of Roby and how well

517
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,320
he's done.
And I said, you know, when do

518
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,040
you actually sell?
And he said.

519
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,040
I'm in there.
What is it?

520
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,360
He said he won't he he his
family loves the business.

521
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,480
His family are already working
in the business.

522
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,080
His kids love the business.
And most of the people around

523
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,480
all the towns.
He's not going to sell it.

524
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,600
He said what for?
You know, we have enough money,

525
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,160
we're good.
You know why?

526
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,240
Why sell it?
Like he doesn't need a big

527
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,640
payday?
He loves the business.

528
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,360
He still loves travelling.
He he loves the business.

529
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,640
So why would you, you know, and
I mean, as long as you're on top

530
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,160
of the world, hey, go for it,
you know?

531
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,680
But you and I both know, and
everyone typically knows, that

532
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,000
eventually somebody knocks you
off that perch and.

533
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,840
And it gets problematic.
The bubble burst is it and and

534
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,120
it's how you respond to that
bubble, that burst, which is

535
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,480
most important.
And we've all had a knock backs

536
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,600
through throughout the years.
You know, the last, you know,

537
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,240
the last couple of years for
certainly for me as abstract was

538
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,560
a was a really tough time.
You know when we when we lost

539
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,480
the factory to fire.
Yeah, that was crazy.

540
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,280
Was that arson or what?
What was it?

541
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,040
No, no, it was a, it was a, a
laser cutting machine that cuts

542
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,400
plastics that we believe
malfunctioned in one way or

543
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,120
another.
And we couldn't get in it to put

544
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,200
it out because they kind of like
clamp themselves down.

545
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,000
And the heat was so intense that
we, we couldn't the lid on the

546
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
top, the the kind of like
plastic lids on the top.

547
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,200
And once that imploded, then the
flames just went and went over

548
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,120
everybody's heads.
At that point, it's like, get

549
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,800
out.
And was that the same building

550
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,120
that I was in years ago where
your office was upstairs and.

551
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,680
Rebuilding now it's, we've got a
new place.

552
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,960
We've got two factories now, so
one which is very much now,

553
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,120
although it's supporting
abstract massively at the

554
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,000
moment.
Abstract will go back to its

555
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,040
original home.
Yeah, cool and new.

556
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,560
The new sort of abstract, as I
call it, will obviously be

557
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,440
developing still out all the
stuff we're doing.

558
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,160
Aeronautical, yeah.
What's that?

559
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:28,400
Helicopters.
Oh, so not helicopters but stuff

560
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,880
for helicopters?
Stuff, lots of stuff.

561
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,160
That's interesting.
So much irony, right?

562
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,840
There's so much irony in this
because when we go back to

563
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,440
1990s, when I first started and
and before that, we was using

564
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,080
the lighting off aircraft as the
past 36 is the past 60 fours.

565
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,920
They were all lighting from
aircraft.

566
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,320
That's what they were.
Yeah.

567
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,320
We use them in pin spots and pin
spot scanners and helicopters

568
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,800
and power, you know, 64 cannons,
didn't we?

569
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,880
Yeah, that's what they are at
the end of the day.

570
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,320
And of course now it's reversed
around where a lighting

571
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,680
manufacturer is now designing
lighting for aircraft.

572
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,680
It's.
Wild, isn't it?

573
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,480
Well, it's also cool when you
can make money off of your

574
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,640
passion, you know, like I tried
that for a minute in

575
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,920
Motorsports.
I was like, that's a great idea

576
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,600
and it didn't work.
It was a nightmare.

577
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,120
It cost me money.
But I always like, like if I'm

578
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,360
going to get into something,
whether it's boating or

579
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,040
something that I'm interested
in, I want to find a way to make

580
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,800
money on it to pay for that
hobby.

581
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,160
You know what I mean?
Like that's not.

582
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,720
Is it?
It's not in principle sounds

583
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,520
great, but.
Yeah, let's see, you probably

584
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,360
tried breeding horses or
something at one point, I'm

585
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,240
sure.
Or that's another game.

586
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,440
That's that's quite, quite
expensive, But you know, one

587
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,080
thing that you're reminding me
of, like because you know, I'm

588
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,160
not blowing smoke up your skirt
or anything, but you've always

589
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,160
been an innovator.
You've always been an extreme

590
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,520
innovator.
Like, and you know, I'm going to

591
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,320
name a few things like so the
the twister, as goofy as it is

592
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,600
today, and it's it's a little
moonflower, but it did, and I

593
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,800
know this because I sold them.
It did have the very best sound

594
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,480
to light activation of anything
like it just it moved better and

595
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,920
it triggered better.
Like the other thing was like

596
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,480
Martin once went like this very
erratic.

597
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,840
Yours was like, it was almost
like it had brakes at both ends

598
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,440
and it was just really smooth
how it moved, you know it.

599
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Had to what?
What I call elastication, yeah.

600
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,680
No, it's just awesome.
Good.

601
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,720
We as we, we, we put in
acceleration and the

602
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:38,240
acceleration curves, yeah, but.
So I mean there was that and and

603
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,840
then there was the, I don't
remember which came first, but I

604
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,880
remember being at Plaza and
seeing your downlight, your AVR

605
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,080
downlight.
And at the time, I mean every

606
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,720
club and restaurant I knew
wanted color changing downlights

607
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,200
and there was no such thing,
right?

608
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,520
This was pre.
LED Oh this is pre.

609
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,640
This was an MR16 lump.
With a color wheel.

610
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,960
With a colour wheel in front of
it with diaper filters, right?

611
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,920
It was.
It was.

612
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,320
Yeah.
Bloody amazing, as you would

613
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,680
say.
And I mean, I remember that and

614
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,280
we had a problem because we
couldn't get UL on it or

615
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,200
whatever.
But aside from that, that thing

616
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,520
was the cat's meow.
Like everyone I showed it to was

617
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,920
like, I won 1000, I won 1000, I
won 100, I won 500.

618
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560
It was ridiculous.
It the the first one starts off

619
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,920
square and then eventually we
moulded it and made it round,

620
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,360
yeah, and made it tiltable with
a tiltable gimbal.

621
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,720
On it, that thing was.
Killer piece and.

622
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,480
That thing was killer.
Yeah.

623
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,800
And the irony is that that
specific products ultimately

624
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:45,080
ended up in going into retail as
the world's first of light white

625
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,520
track light.
That same Alden was was used as

626
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,640
a track light just about.
It's a bezel.

627
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,120
Yeah, so there was that, there
was the the VR8 scanner, which

628
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:02,840
is like to me that was one
probably the most like artful,

629
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,120
you know, lighting fixtures
ever.

630
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,120
It it was the void acoustics of
lighting.

631
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,840
It was the void acoustics of
lighting.

632
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,440
If you think of VR eights next
to void speakers, perfect mate,

633
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,639
right, You know perfect we.
Sold a lot of them and.

634
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520
We sold a lot of them in the US.
That's when you and I got

635
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,840
together and I started
distributing them for you for a

636
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,560
little.
While it went in the main into

637
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,480
like, you know, like sort of
bars in the daytime want to be

638
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,719
coffee bars and stuff that not
became discount to those places

639
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,360
brilliantly because they didn't
look ugly.

640
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,760
And beautiful.
We're on the wall and and not

641
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,520
even bother switching him on.
Yeah, that thing, that thing was

642
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,560
outrageously beautiful.
It was.

643
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,920
And then I, I mean, again, you,
you were one of the very

644
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,520
earliest, if not the earliest
LED manufacturer who sort of

645
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,400
flipped the bird to color
kinetics and said we're not

646
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,679
copying anything you're doing.
We're going to go ahead and sell

647
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,000
our products and.
Why?

648
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:03,120
So you had all kinds of color
changers and stuff and, and, and

649
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,120
managed to sell them.
And, you know, I, again, I know

650
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,320
I sold a lot of them in the US
as well.

651
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,960
And so I mean, what I'm getting
at, the point I'm getting at,

652
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,400
I've also in my career, I've
been an innovator and not that

653
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,640
I've actually come up with, you
know, physical products that

654
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,520
I've made or anything, but I've
been behind the scenes saying

655
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,520
make this, make this, make this,
make this.

656
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560
And also, you know, one of the
things I'm really proud of.

657
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,920
And I was talking to somebody
from Martin about this the other

658
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,400
day.
I named the, the Mac like it.

659
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,800
That was, that was me when they
came out with that first

660
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,400
obnoxious Mac 1200.
The the big huge thing that

661
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,920
caught fire and stuff.
Peter Johansson comes in into

662
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,920
the office in Florida one day
and he goes, OK, he brings the

663
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,840
whole team together and he says,
OK, we need to name this new

664
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,520
product.
And he shows us pictures and

665
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,920
brochures and stuff and tells us
what it does.

666
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,840
And he says, I'll give you a 30
days and whoever gets it right

667
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,840
I'll give you 500 bucks or I
think it was, I'll give you 7

668
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,320
days and whoever gets it right
I'll give you a 500 bucks.

669
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,800
And I go, how about Mac?
And he goes, what's it mean?

670
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,160
And I said Martin automated
color wash.

671
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,040
And he goes, that's it.
And so he says that's it, that's

672
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,040
the name.
So he walks out of the room and

673
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,280
I go, hang on a SEC.
You know, little bit of business

674
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,480
here mate.
You got to be far under.

675
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,160
It yeah.
So, you know, Peter was classic

676
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,880
for that, though, like offering
something that never really

677
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,640
turned up.
You know, the other thing was he

678
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
stole your pen.
Like, I'm sure he's stolen some

679
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,720
of your pens, but I always had
AI, always had a Mont Blanc back

680
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,080
then, and he stole it every time
I saw him.

681
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,440
Oh my God.
Can I borrow your pen for a

682
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,440
second and I'd hand it to him.
He never see it again.

683
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:52,920
Never see it again.
I.

684
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,680
Remember, the greatest, the
greatest Martin moment we ever

685
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,040
had is at abstract.
Because Marx, it was always a

686
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,960
big thing, right?
And we always wanted to to get

687
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,040
one over on, on Martin, which
was always difficult until we

688
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,000
went to the show in Rimini,
right, And the Rose and Crown

689
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,920
pub.
We decided we're going to

690
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,960
sponsor it.
I remember I was there.

691
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,400
That's right.
And then I was there. 22 bus

692
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,720
loads of moth tin people turn on
and the first thing I did when

693
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,160
peace came in he pour cocktail
stick in his top pocket.

694
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,120
I remember, I remember I was
there.

695
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,800
I was with them.
That was just a genius.

696
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Moment.
Yeah.

697
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,040
And Ian Kirby was furious.
He was so mad.

698
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,560
He was pissed.
And we got, we, we had VR as

699
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,160
everywhere.
Do you remember?

700
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,960
Yeah, I do.
I do that.

701
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,120
Show was so much fun.
I missed that show, but but the

702
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,880
long point I was getting at was
this industry like you've done

703
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,600
very well, I've done very well,
but I haven't done Joseph well.

704
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,840
I haven't done Peter Johansson
well, nor of you.

705
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,400
And you know, it seems like the
innovators get run over and the

706
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,160
other people grab the ideas sort
of mid flight and sell a billion

707
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,720
of them.
You know, it's like, look at all

708
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,560
the products you designed that
Chuck Davies ended up getting

709
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,560
manufactured in China and then
just selling a billion of them.

710
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,800
The rave.
Oh my God, The raves we sold

711
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,760
was, yeah, this incredible.
You know, because it just had

712
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,200
the, it was just totally
different, wasn't it?

713
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,680
But it was like it was a take on
the Robos app.

714
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,000
Yeah, off the front, I remember.
Right.

715
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,160
Yeah, I remember you did very
well with that.

716
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,480
Think what it's done for us all
though.

717
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,520
If he was honest is, you know,
we haven't really worked a day

718
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,000
our lives, have we?
Because I just do what?

719
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,400
You know, we do what we like to
do and we.

720
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,200
Yeah, at the end of the day,
when I was 14, I was playing

721
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,680
with disco lights and I'm still
playing with lights today.

722
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,520
Yeah.
Real reality, right?

723
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,200
Yeah.
Yeah.

724
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,320
You know, I can't.
There's been.

725
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,560
I'm not complaining, you know,
there's been bad times.

726
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,640
Sure there has.
But you know, in the main it's

727
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,480
been a fantastic, fantastic.
No, no, I'm not complaining.

728
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,600
I'm just saying this seems to be
how our industry evolves is, is

729
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,880
you get scrappy pioneers and
they, they create these

730
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,040
incredible innovative ideas and,
and come up with all these

731
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,280
things.
And then, you know, someone

732
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,440
who's better funded perhaps
grabs the idea and says, I'm

733
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,760
going to go run with that.
And I'm not saying necessarily

734
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,520
that anyone's stealing anything.
They're advancing the ideas

735
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,760
because every great idea
requires capital.

736
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,080
It requires A-Team, it requires
sometimes manufacturing

737
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,840
facilities or whatever it is
right it.

738
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,840
Takes really brave as well,
doesn't it?

739
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,880
Because, you know, you take a
product that's maybe not

740
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,920
necessarily your own, let's say
and decide to run with it and

741
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,440
you run heavily with it.
You know you've got to throw

742
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,320
some money at it, right?
Yeah, it might not work out.

743
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,600
Yeah, 100% guarantee is.
So, you know, I think the, the,

744
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,520
the people that have run with
great ideas do deserve it.

745
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,480
Yeah.
I have I have no, no thoughts to

746
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,080
say that anybody that's ever
followed in my footsteps.

747
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,400
I don't feel bad about that.
I just see it now, you know, I

748
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,920
see it actually is, is quite a
positive thing, something right?

749
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,080
Well, no.
And at the end of the day, like

750
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,560
it's also the way I was raised,
you know, like when I, when I

751
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,880
lived in Canada and I was a kid
growing up and we didn't have

752
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,800
any money.
And at the time, like now in, in

753
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,800
Calgary where I grew up, there's
there's Ferrari dealers and

754
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,520
Lamborghini and Rolls Royce and
everything, right?

755
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,280
There's huge money there.
But back in the day when a

756
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Mercedes drove by, I would stop
my friends and I'd be like.

757
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,240
Whoa, get that?
You know, and nowadays people

758
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,840
would go, what a douchebag, you
know, he shouldn't be driving,

759
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,400
that he doesn't deserve it or
whatever.

760
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,560
Back then it was like, man, I
want to work hard and, and earn

761
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,600
one of those like I whatever
he's doing, that guy's the man.

762
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,040
I want to, I want to follow him
and, and learn from him and

763
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:58,600
stuff.
Right.

764
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,480
Like we appreciated it.
Yeah.

765
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:05,360
But now it's, I think most many
of us automatically go to like

766
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,760
some sort of jealousy or
something when someone is doing

767
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,760
better than you or has a bigger
car or a better this or a

768
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,840
whatever.
And I just don't buy into that.

769
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,160
Like, I love what I do, like you
said.

770
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:17,720
You don't really.
Work a day and.

771
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,840
You know, we, we will never, we
will never be necessarily, you

772
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,440
know, at the top of the tree,
but never be at the bottom of

773
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,240
the tree, right?
As long as we're not the roots.

774
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,440
As long as you keep pushing on,
you know, pushing forward, it's

775
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,480
going to be it's going to be
good.

776
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,160
And innovation is something
that, you know, I've not stopped

777
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,880
to that when when we brought out
the the abstract X life, for

778
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,560
example, that because it all had
DMX macros in it was created DMX

779
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,960
to pixel macros.
You know, we were the first to

780
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,280
do that.
And then, you know, I've, I'm

781
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,960
not saying for one second that
anyone's copying anybody.

782
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,320
I'm not saying that.
Yeah, for certain.

783
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,760
I'm sure that the inspiration of
some of the American pixel

784
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,640
controlled by DMX macros, you
know, is definitely has adna of

785
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,640
abstracts in it.
And I'm pretty sure of that.

786
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,560
Yeah.
Well, and you know, I can think

787
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,240
of immediately, but I'm I'm not
going to say.

788
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,040
This, but sometimes it's not
even, it's not even that direct

789
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,240
of a line, like sometimes it's
because some manufacturer from

790
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,640
offshore, let's say.
So we're not picking on anyone

791
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,800
in particular, but an offshore
manufacturer sees your product

792
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,040
at a trade show or at a club or
at a dealer or whatever and

793
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,920
says, oh, this is, this is
interesting.

794
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,000
I like this.
And they'll buy one and they'll

795
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,360
take it back to their factory,
reverse engineer it.

796
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,720
Yeah.
And then and then they just

797
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,400
offer it to the world.
Right.

798
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,280
And the, the challenge with
innovation for you and for most

799
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,760
of the industry today is that it
doesn't pay well because you

800
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,600
innovate something.
And, you know, one of the

801
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,840
examples I always use is I
remember going to LDI and seeing

802
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,960
the clay Paki, I think it's
called the Valero wave or

803
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,560
something, that thing with a
bunch of lights.

804
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,280
And they go like this and they
do the wave.

805
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:12,840
And I saw pictures in a press
release leading up to LDI and I

806
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,080
thought, what a stupid idea,
Like what the hell do you need

807
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,040
that for?
And then I saw their show at LDI

808
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,200
and my mind was blown.
I was like.

809
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,160
It looks so good.
Oh my God, Like I couldn't

810
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,960
believe what they did with that
thing.

811
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,400
And it couldn't have been more
than a few months later and

812
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,480
Chauvet had one.
I think it's.

813
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,000
Called the wave or something.
Yeah.

814
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,320
And.
That's it's like my son Sam.

815
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,600
He's he's now joined abstract
and he will show light inside of

816
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,520
things going.
He's he's coming in too slowly

817
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:44,760
because I said to him, don't
rush in.

818
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,120
I just let's, let's say that
you, you really, really want to

819
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,200
do this first before we go mad.
Yeah.

820
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,400
And I said, look, there's no
point in you looking at what

821
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,240
everybody else does and go, oh,
I'm one of them.

822
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:56,360
You're never going to catch them
up.

823
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,240
You're never going to catch them
up because they've had too much

824
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,400
of A head start now, right?
So let's just say you take a,

825
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,920
you know, a robe XXY and you go,
oh, let's make one of them.

826
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,120
There's no point.
It's just that's right.

827
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,880
So what you've got to do now is
you've got to come up with

828
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,160
something that is niche,
something that's totally

829
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,040
separate, totally individual
that a lighting designer is

830
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,480
hopefully going to pick up on a
room with, right?

831
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,480
Because when they run with it,
everybody's going to run with

832
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,920
it.
But let me ask you this, Steve,

833
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,400
like are you?
So does it go into your head now

834
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,480
when you're thinking of new
products like that?

835
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,400
Like I'm going to get a good 12
months out of this.

836
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,000
So I want to put X amount of
dollars into development costs

837
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,200
and and R&D and all that stuff
because I'm going to get 12

838
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,400
months before it gets copied and
and I lose out to the people who

839
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,840
are copying because their prices
are 50% less.

840
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,720
True reality is I think that
that your return on investment

841
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:51,360
has got to come back within two
years.

842
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,280
I think you've got two years.
OK, right.

843
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,320
That we brought out the
excellent, basically was brought

844
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,960
out to to stick one up pretty
pretty much up the freedom

845
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,600
stick.
Yeah, because the Freedom Stick

846
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,720
was short and stubbly.
Yeah, Paul, right.

847
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,440
So of course we then became the
king of the stick.

848
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,520
Yeah, right, right.
And and what I want to do is, is

849
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,520
take it, take their freedom
stick and turn it into a high

850
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,080
resolution super product, which
is what it became right?

851
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,400
And behind me now they're X
lights, ironically.

852
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:27,920
But at all though, they, you
know, they stand well on a

853
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,800
stage.
They look amazing that, you

854
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,720
know, everything about them.
It's just a really stunning

855
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:33,680
product.
Yeah.

856
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,200
And and of course then, you
know, two years down the line,

857
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,240
maybe three years down the line,
then you'll see all of a sudden

858
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,320
freedom stick that's high
resolution and got a bit taller.

859
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,720
Yeah.
And and that's, that's this

860
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:47,760
industry.
For you, Yeah, it is, of course.

861
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,640
Meantime, we've we've moved on.
We've moved on to the next

862
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,480
level.
Yeah, that's what you've got to

863
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,840
do.
You just got to keep me set

864
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,480
forward.
But one thing I try not to do is

865
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,120
shout about stuff anymore, only
because I think it's not my age,

866
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,560
I think.
And.

867
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,480
Calm down a little as we get
older.

868
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,080
I was 20 or. 30 I'd probably be
shouting about everything.

869
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,320
When I prefer to design
something, show it to select

870
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,760
people, keep my mouth short.
Yeah.

871
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,400
Why?
Lots and lots of them.

872
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,560
Yeah.
Yeah, he knows I'm doing it.

873
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,160
Did you say what I mean?
Well, I mean those, those the X

874
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,640
thing, like you sold a ton of
those things.

875
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,880
I started seeing them everywhere
and and it was kind of quiet.

876
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,440
And the other thing is like
you've never really said, most

877
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,280
manufacturers immediately go,
OK, now we got to conquer the

878
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,840
US.
You know, the US is the diamond,

879
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,960
it's the jewel.
Like we got to conquer the US.

880
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,360
You've just said I don't need
to, I need these few little

881
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,760
countries over here and I'm
going to do, you know,

882
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,920
£2,000,000 in this product and 2
million in this product and a

883
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,880
million in this product and
that's going to be just fine,

884
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,600
you know, and.
And not have pressure, not have

885
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,920
the, the, the pressure, the
monetary pressure, because when

886
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,760
you in, you know, many people
have said that that the US is a

887
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,720
graveyard of British companies.
And I think there's a lot of

888
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:03,640
truth behind that.
It's.

889
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,960
Not, not a lie.
You know, the everything is

890
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,760
different.
The customer service has got to

891
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,440
be absolutely spot on.
Everything is right.

892
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:17,560
So again, be quiet, you know,
and just do your own thing and

893
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,000
just be quiet about it.
And for me works.

894
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,120
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying
it's going to put abstract on

895
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,200
the top of Trump Tower.
I'm not saying that.

896
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:29,720
Yeah.
But it certainly keeps business

897
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:34,040
like mine in a very stable
position and and you're stable,

898
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,560
you know, things stick to.
You don't they what's what's

899
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,440
your model though like are you
still distributor, dealer

900
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,080
etcetera or do you have like
ADTC?

901
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,760
Is what we've become.
I think more than anything is

902
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,400
I've surround myself with like a
number of partners.

903
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,600
No, I don't call them
distributors, I don't call them

904
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:55,800
that.
I call them partners.

905
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,560
They're very heavily evolved in
abstract.

906
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:04,360
So when when we lost abstract to
the fire we had because we made

907
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,640
everything in house, I mean
absolutely everything we make in

908
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,280
house an abstract, right.
So when we lost the the factory,

909
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,320
we were super screwed because we
couldn't buy a contractor and

910
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,600
say help us here because we
didn't have any contractors,

911
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:15,200
right.
Yeah.

912
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,760
I.
Sat up immediately.

913
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:22,680
Within three days, 5 pop up
stores where one was a board

914
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,400
manufacturer, 1 was an LED
populator, 1 was a yeah.

915
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,080
And I said to the customers, if
you want your lights, you've got

916
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,320
to come over and help me make
them.

917
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,200
Oh my God, that's hilarious.
That's really, that's what they

918
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,080
did.
I, I had like customers

919
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,680
spending, you know one of them
spends over £1,000,000 a year

920
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,880
with me and he was there
building lights.

921
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,440
That's wild.
But I said to him, like, look,

922
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:49,040
we've got to, you know, all
you're going to do is worry.

923
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,160
You're going to be in your
office worrying that I'm going

924
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,240
to go out of business, right?
If you come down to me and help

925
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:56,640
me.
That's going to take all you

926
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,520
worry.
Away, isn't it?

927
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,080
Yeah.
You could answer all your

928
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,480
questions, right?
You haven't answered.

929
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:03,440
Ask me anything you know
yourself if you're going to

930
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,160
survive it, Huh.
Because you're going to be with

931
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:06,800
me.
That's wild.

932
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,360
Wow.
And it works and it got through,

933
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,680
you know?
Yeah, Well, good on you, man.

934
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,560
Like that's, you know, it's one
of the probably the biggest

935
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,680
things in business is, is you
know, to to finish first.

936
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720
You got to how do they say it?
To finish first, first you got

937
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,520
to finish or something like
that, like, but I mean, you got

938
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,400
to get there, you know, alive
and, and you know, my business

939
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,320
has probably died 10 times over
the years, you know what I mean?

940
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,160
It's like, you know, it's like
Monty Python where you're dead

941
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,840
laying on the ground and
somebody comes in to pick you up

942
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,200
and you're like, I'm.
Not dead yet.

943
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:43,800
Feeling better.
Look.

944
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,600
Dead.
I'm not dead.

945
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:45,160
Promise.
Yeah.

946
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,480
Promise.
Yeah, yeah.

947
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,240
To become something you've never
been, you've got to become

948
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:53,920
something that you've know, you
know, or have it done right.

949
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,520
So, yeah, a change your outlook.
And I could have laid down and

950
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,600
died two days after that because
I, I'd lost everything that I'd

951
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,080
worked for for 35 years.
Yeah, I could sit and cry or,

952
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,000
you know, I could say, well,
look, Weebles wobble, but they

953
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,520
don't fall down, right?
Yeah.

954
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,080
So what we're going to do, what
we're going to do, how we're

955
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,360
going to get, you know, so we
put respirators on, we cover

956
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,240
yourself in all this plastic
sheeted and we all, you know,

957
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:23,800
four of us, we'd be like the
main team number 1/4 of us went

958
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,640
in and dragged all the machines
out.

959
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,400
Really.
So you were able to save most of

960
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,240
the machines.
Well, there was pockets.

961
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:34,480
There was pockets where the fire
had not killed everything and it

962
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,200
would just damage.
So we dragged all that stuff out

963
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,880
and Connor, we ended up kind of
with one of everything that we

964
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,800
needed.
We probably, that's wild.

965
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,200
We ended up with one of
everything and by the bits off

966
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,800
the others we got one working.
Does that make sense?

967
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,040
The lighting guards wanted you
to continue.

968
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,440
They wanted us to wanted
abstract to live on.

969
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,200
What is to live on?
And it was, yeah, wild.

970
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,760
But that.
Is awesome.

971
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,000
And so that my, my, my message
to anybody, right, that when you

972
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,480
hit shit time, right, this is,
this is the measure of you, this

973
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,560
is a true measure of you.
Because if you, if you're going

974
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,800
to lay down, then you didn't
want it bad enough to start

975
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,160
with, did you?
Yeah, just got a, you got a, you

976
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,160
just got a headache head, you
know, hit the problem head on

977
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,280
and get on with it.
I, I just listened, I just

978
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,360
listened to a podcast.
The guy's name is Yuri something

979
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:31,000
or other Israeli guy who founded
Waze, you know, the, the traffic

980
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:36,600
app, Waze or the navigation app
and his, the whole podcast was

981
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,080
pretty much about that.
He was like, I died so many

982
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:43,080
times in business.
And you know, if you don't allow

983
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,720
yourself to die, you never
really die, right?

984
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:50,240
Like if you just keep going and
and you know, I don't know if

985
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,600
you remember on my weekly Zoom
calls during COVID, but Mike

986
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:59,280
Strickland used to constantly
say, what did he say?

987
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:05,880
He used to always say you're
not, you're not dead until you

988
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,880
quit.
You're you're basically not dead

989
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,880
until you quit.
You're not out of business until

990
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,680
you quit.
And isn't it?

991
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,040
Yeah.
And so, you know, as long as you

992
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,840
never quit.
And some days are frustrating

993
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,720
for sure, you know, especially
as we get older.

994
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,440
Like, I wish I had more easy
days than difficult days, But

995
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,160
it's just not in my DNA.
You know, I'm a problem solver.

996
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,360
So, you know, at the end of the
day, we solve problems.

997
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,880
We fix things.
Well, that's it, isn't it?

998
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,400
And, and yeah, I think you
become stronger as a result of

999
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,280
it.
I mean, it's sometimes you say

1000
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:37,960
to yourself, but I don't want to
be stronger.

1001
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,440
It does kill me already.
Will you?

1002
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,080
I don't want to hug in a
blanket.

1003
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,280
Yeah.
Yeah, we.

1004
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,160
Weren't built, we weren't built
that way.

1005
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,320
And the challenges were
obviously clearly sent to, you

1006
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,880
know, to tries and that's what
it's about.

1007
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,440
And I think future of abstracts
is, is, is bright because we

1008
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,720
haven't, you know, we, we, I, I
always say that abstract's like

1009
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:02,600
a, a, a beautiful swan on a calm
lake.

1010
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,720
But when times get rough, she
turns into a battleship.

1011
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,080
Yeah.
And that's the reality, you

1012
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,560
know?
I I was going to say, when you

1013
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,960
said it's like a beautiful swan
on a calm lake, I was going to

1014
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,400
say run by a donkey.
That's it.

1015
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,800
That's about it.
Yeah, I think it's the future of

1016
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,720
abstracts.
I think is, I think, you know,

1017
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:29,000
this year it it's all about just
getting ourselves back together

1018
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,720
again and and getting swift at
manufacturing again after our

1019
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:35,080
little turmoil.
And then next year, I'm looking

1020
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,320
for, you know, serious growth
again.

1021
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,120
Yeah, yeah.
And so doesn't it get like, I

1022
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,160
know for me, I'm constantly
looking for serious growth, but

1023
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,720
some days you wake up and you
just think, OK, today I'm just

1024
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,160
going to maintain, you know, I'm
not going to grow today.

1025
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,000
I'm just going to go out there
and try not to die, you know?

1026
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,680
I think that's an age thing.
Well.

1027
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,880
I have a huge amount of energy
still, but I still get tired

1028
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,840
every once in a while, you know?
But what we have is wisdom, I

1029
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,840
think, and and probably your
wisdom is probably saying to

1030
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:11,600
you, don't bother.
Yeah, some days I wish it did,

1031
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,760
you know, but I the problem is I
love business.

1032
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,880
Like I just love the game.
I love the battles, I love the,

1033
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:24,600
the challenges, the, you know,
it it really business and

1034
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,680
entrepreneurship is, is
basically jumping from crisis to

1035
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,640
crisis.
You know, I mean, that's, that's

1036
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,000
what it is.
You're everything's a crisis and

1037
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,760
you're just jumping from 1:00 to
the next.

1038
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,160
I think the rhythm, it's like
the seeing it, it goes problem,

1039
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,040
problem, problem, crisis.
Yeah, yeah.

1040
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:49,760
And you're either just coming
out of a crisis, in a crisis, or

1041
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,800
about to end to one.
Yeah, right.

1042
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,800
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's a crazy world.

1043
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,600
It's, you know, it's like my
son.

1044
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,000
Every once in a while, I'll talk
to my son about, you know,

1045
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,040
because he's he's sort of in
transition right now, somewhere

1046
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,400
between being a professional
race car driver and realizing

1047
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,400
that he probably won't make a
living doing that.

1048
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,120
And I might want to start
thinking about a different

1049
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,080
future.
And, you know, he's like dad,

1050
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,080
you know, should I be an
entrepreneur like you?

1051
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,880
And half of me wants to say,
hell no, go work for some big

1052
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,560
company, give them the problems,
you know, like certainly some

1053
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,040
days I think, God, it would be
easy to just sit back and

1054
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,640
collect a paycheck, you know,
and, and go home at 5:00 and

1055
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,520
have dinner with my family and
not even think about work till

1056
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,160
the next day.
I think if you're an

1057
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,080
entrepreneur, you're an
entrepreneur and it will come

1058
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:39,920
out of you.
And of course, yeah.

1059
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:41,560
And it didn't.
It didn't.

1060
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,920
I guess it came out to be at a
very early age, but I didn't

1061
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,720
know that I was entrepreneurial
until probably when I started

1062
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:50,040
Abstract.
Yeah.

1063
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:53,360
You know, but I've made
mistakes.

1064
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,600
I've made mistakes.
I mean, Gordon Addison, right?

1065
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,160
Gordon Addison, right?
Had it set up.

1066
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,440
Yeah, I turned up.
I was, I was in my Ferrari,

1067
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,320
right?
This is when abstract was really

1068
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:03,920
kicking right?
I.

1069
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,000
Was in my Ferrari and and Gordon
Addison says, Steve, I need you

1070
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,840
to come.
I need you to come up to see me

1071
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,360
immediately.
I said all right mate, I'm on my

1072
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,200
way up.
We flew up there, pick Gordon

1073
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,440
up.
He gets in the Ferrari.

1074
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,640
We drive off to this, like high,
you know, high skyscraper

1075
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,680
building, and he says not right.
I've got to tell you, I've sold

1076
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,040
your business for you.
I said you are.

1077
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:28,880
Gordon sold your business for
you.

1078
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,320
Siri, My property.
That's hilarious.

1079
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,440
It goes into this office.
Yeah, seriously.

1080
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,920
Goes into this office and the
bloke's there and they're all

1081
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:41,080
talking around there and they
offer that proper serious offer,

1082
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:45,040
you know, noise.
You'll be like, I'm just in 5%,

1083
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,040
you know?
Sort of thing, yeah.

1084
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:50,880
Don't forget me.
I was horrified when it when I

1085
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:55,040
said it's not for sale and the
money was telephone figures,

1086
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,240
right?
Yeah, and it and I said it's not

1087
00:56:57,240 --> 00:56:59,080
for sale.
Yeah, right.

1088
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,360
And Gordon's not.
What do you mean it's not

1089
00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:03,640
everything's was upstate?
Yeah.

1090
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,880
Snare, it's not for sale.
Yeah.

1091
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,600
And.
And to that, and I still think

1092
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,880
to this day, Gordon's probably
still wonders even to this day,

1093
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,480
why was it?
For sale.

1094
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,840
Well, I did, I did that one time
Steve and and you know

1095
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:24,720
evaluation was given to me for
the LED company and it was a

1096
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:30,480
significant number and I
basically had been led to

1097
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,840
believe by all the geniuses.
And I won't mention any names,

1098
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,560
but you know at least one of
them that the bill business

1099
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,000
would eventually be worth three
times that number and it

1100
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,480
probably wouldn't take more than
three or four years to get it

1101
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,480
there.
And so I just listened to that

1102
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,120
and I said, no, we don't want
that.

1103
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,080
However, you know, we'll take an
investment and we'll sell you

1104
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,480
10% of the business now and the
other 90% later.

1105
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,680
And so we did that.
We got a fairly significant sum

1106
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:04,040
of money for the 10% and of
course my genius team spent it

1107
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,800
all into.
That's the problem in it.

1108
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,360
All bad things.
And we ran out of money, and

1109
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,920
they no longer wanted to buy the
other 90%.

1110
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,320
And now we're stuck with a
company with huge expenses, a

1111
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,120
big bloated inventory of stuff
that nobody needs, way too many

1112
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:26,080
employees, a huge building.
And, you know, it was like, now

1113
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,040
what?
Yeah, So.

1114
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,920
But I mean, since that moment, I
decided if the number is big

1115
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,120
enough to change my life and
somebody offers it to you in

1116
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,960
cash today, take it and take the
damn number.

1117
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,360
What are you doing?
Don't be a hero and take the

1118
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,520
freaking money, you know?
But that depends on age and

1119
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,000
where you're at in your in your
life and your career and stuff

1120
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,440
when you're.
Building a business.

1121
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,840
When you're building a business
like we've both done, you are

1122
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,360
very personally attached to it.
You know I don't.

1123
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,680
Think this, this sort of oh, you
know, you can't be attached to

1124
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,040
business.
So I don't believe that.

1125
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,880
I think you're very attached to
business, right?

1126
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,440
And so you see it is, you see it
like your own kids don't hear in

1127
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,600
a funny sort of way, but in a
financial way, right?

1128
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,080
And you will stick in and dig in
to save that business or do

1129
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:15,560
whatever you got to do.
With it, of course.

1130
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,120
Yeah, you.
Know, and that's just of course,

1131
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,080
and I'm sure there are plenty of
people that are in business that

1132
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,840
would watch this podcast, for
example, they sit there and

1133
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,000
think, you know what, I could
have been out of this 10 times

1134
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:28,680
where I'm still in it.
Yeah, yeah.

1135
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,680
And I think there's a there's
two things.

1136
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:31,840
There's the.
Drawer of.

1137
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,080
There's a drawer of.
Becoming more successful than

1138
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,560
you're on it.
How there's the fear of not

1139
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,640
achieving what you set out to
do.

1140
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,120
Is it?
Yeah, there's two things right

1141
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,320
there because.
Hell yeah, people don't want to

1142
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,000
fail.
Right.

1143
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,600
Yeah, and but you know, failure
is sometimes inevitable, right?

1144
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,840
And sometimes fail fast and fail
hard in order to become super

1145
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,640
successful.
Yeah, I don't know though.

1146
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,480
You know, as I get older, all
the other things in life become

1147
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,840
equally if not more important
than.

1148
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,280
Building the biggest business in
the world or whatever, like it,

1149
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,440
it gets to a point where you're
thinking, you know, I'd like to

1150
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,600
do some other things.
I'd like to maybe do this or do

1151
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,240
that or do whatever.
And you know, the problem is I'm

1152
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,400
too stubborn.
Like I just love my business.

1153
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,080
I love growing my business.
I believe in the future of the

1154
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,680
business and all of that stuff.
So it keeps me from, you know,

1155
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,920
making any of those crazy moves.
But you know, I've kind of set a

1156
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,640
timeline now for myself.
I've said at X period, I'm

1157
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,040
selling the business for
whatever it's worth at that

1158
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:36,640
time.
I'll start putting it up for

1159
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,080
sale a year before that.
And basically when I get to a

1160
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:46,160
number that I think is at least
X, then I'm selling the business

1161
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,480
and period, that's it.
So, so at that time, one day

1162
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,920
after that time, I will have
sold my business and not going

1163
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,040
to tell you when that is because
that way in my own head I can

1164
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:57,920
change it and nobody will.
Know and you can move it right.

1165
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,720
I can move it around, kick it
down the road a couple more

1166
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:01,760
years.
I'm just.

1167
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,160
About there.
Well, I think, I think, I think

1168
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,000
you must be very proud of
yourself and you must

1169
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,920
congratulate yourself for 300
podcasts.

1170
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:11,480
Yeah.
That one too.

1171
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,880
Isn't that isn't.
That it's pretty funny.

1172
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,840
It is really, I mean you stick
in and to achieve 300 I think,

1173
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,000
yeah.
You know what?

1174
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,320
And some days it's not easy, but
but it's always fun.

1175
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,320
I mean, I love doing it.
I love doing this.

1176
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,280
Like I, I was telling, I think I
was telling my girlfriend the

1177
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,480
other day or someone that if and
when I sell my company, I'm

1178
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,280
going to keep doing podcasts
because I just love doing it.

1179
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,640
I love talking to people.
I love hearing their stories.

1180
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,600
I love helping people.
So I'll keep doing it.

1181
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,480
I think, I think it's incredible
though to, you know, because

1182
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,520
many people will get to set a
certain stage, you know, but

1183
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,200
you've pushed through that
barrier.

1184
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:52,800
Well.
You've hitting that incredible

1185
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,480
number.
I mean 3. 100 I actually, I read

1186
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:59,320
the statistics at the in the
intro of this podcast, but I'll

1187
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:04,080
tell you right now, 90% of
podcasts stop publishing within

1188
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:13,080
how many episodes. 10. 333, 90%
stop within their first three

1189
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:18,560
and the 90 and then 90% of the
remaining 10% quit after 20

1190
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:24,840
episodes.
And it says less than 20% of new

1191
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,280
podcast launched in 25 are
expected to survive into 26,

1192
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:36,480
less than 20% and just over 2%
get to 300 episodes.

1193
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,920
So I'm in the top 2% of all
podcasters.

1194
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,320
You just hit it.
You just hit it.

1195
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,880
Wow, the top 2.
I'm in the top 2%.

1196
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,240
How good is that?
I think that's fantastic, isn't?

1197
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,520
It, well, you know, the, the
thing was like, I started it

1198
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,520
before COVID.
So I didn't start it because I

1199
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,840
was bored.
I started it with a purpose and

1200
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,040
that purpose didn't change when
I went through COVID.

1201
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,840
So I know a lot of other people
who who started podcasts during

1202
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,120
COVID because they were bored
and they had some stories to

1203
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,840
tell and that was great.
But then they went away as soon

1204
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,160
as work came back, right?
Mine, I've always found a way to

1205
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,600
make time and make it work.
And now I've got this, this

1206
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:16,000
lovely lady, Sarah, who's taking
care of most of the stuff that I

1207
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:20,200
don't have time to do anymore.
And, and so it works out great.

1208
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:21,400
It's fun.
I love it.

1209
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,760
Well, well done and
congratulations on that.

1210
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:25,880
Thank you so much.
And it was funny.

1211
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,040
You reached out to me, yeah, a
while back and said I want to be

1212
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,400
the 300th podcast.
I want to be #300 because I'd

1213
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,600
push into the same club.
There you go, you're in the 2%

1214
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,120
club now.
There you go.

1215
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,240
Well, you know what?
We should do it again at 500.

1216
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,080
Yeah, 2, right?
Hit the next.

1217
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,120
Do it again at 55. 100 is the
next miles.

1218
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,840
Stay right.
I think so, yeah, I think so.

1219
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,800
Maybe 301 is the next bus,
Don't, I don't know.

1220
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,480
Who knows, you know?
You never know, do you?

1221
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,880
Yeah.
But your your business abstract

1222
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:01,880
is what, 35 now, right?
35 years, yeah, that's why.

1223
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:06,040
And I don't think there's many,
many companies that survive 35

1224
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:10,000
years, so I feel.
A tremendous accomplishment.

1225
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,720
With with still a purpose.
I think we're, you know, we're

1226
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:18,200
doing, we're, we're changing
lives for, for, you know,

1227
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,200
various people in various
industry marketplaces.

1228
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,640
You know, like I said, we're
doing it quietly, which is the

1229
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,440
way I want to be.
I think abstract lighting will

1230
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,200
be more noisy when Sam takes the
helm of that.

1231
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,480
I just want to make sure that,
you know, he, he has the correct

1232
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:39,080
mental mindset, you know, before
he sort of goes polling in.

1233
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,840
Well, I mean, the The thing is,
you've got a great brand, you've

1234
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,040
got great pedigree, great
history.

1235
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,840
One of the things that I admire
about you and about abstract is

1236
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,880
you've always been very stubborn
to a point of it will always be

1237
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,560
made in house, it will always be
made in the UK.

1238
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,200
That's where it is.
Like, let's face it, the twister

1239
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,640
could have quite easily been
made in China, which it was by

1240
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,880
50 other companies.
But yeah, I mean, you could have

1241
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:08,920
probably made it for for 6070%
less in China in a sense.

1242
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,160
But you know, you said I'm Auk
company.

1243
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,000
It's going to be built in the
UK, in my factory by my

1244
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,080
standards and you know, you've
always been very proud of that.

1245
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,840
You haven't hidden the fact at
all that it's bait, that it's

1246
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,120
built in the UK.
Every, everything and we still,

1247
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,680
you know, still to this day,
we're still manufacturing away.

1248
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,400
We've got all of our ace
machines, our own, you know,

1249
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,680
everything metal facilities,
powder go, you know, we've

1250
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:35,160
rebuilt all of that over the
last year and all that all

1251
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:40,120
functioning again.
We're making another big

1252
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:44,680
investment this year in a new
plant that's being installed

1253
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,080
into Westfield, our original
manufacturing place.

1254
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,440
So that's what modernise that
substantially.

1255
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,160
When will that building be
ready?

1256
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:57,760
We we hope to have we hope it be
reopening April 25.

1257
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,920
Oh wow, very soon, couple months
from now.

1258
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,200
Yeah, that's, yeah, good for
you.

1259
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,240
Well, good luck on that.
You know, then we'll seriously

1260
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:08,000
start to start to make a bit of
noise.

1261
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,400
Yeah, yeah.
Abstracts now become ETL listed.

1262
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,880
So beautiful take on the
American market.

1263
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,720
Beautiful for for that.
That's a big step because I know

1264
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:24,120
we've tried, you know, and, and
it was always expensive and

1265
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,120
painful.
They don't make it easy, which

1266
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,960
is funny because if it's made in
China it's quite easy to get ETL

1267
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,720
or UL approval on fixtures.
There's a lot of, you know, I

1268
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,880
think there's a lot of smoke and
mirrors regarding that, yeah.

1269
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,760
Yeah, I think they're like.
The logo on.

1270
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:43,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true.
The criteria to get ETL is

1271
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,320
quite, it's quite challenging
and we get, we get inspected

1272
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,120
every quarter, yeah, you know,
and they go through every,

1273
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:55,320
everything, I mean everything.
But I don't know how that

1274
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,520
process works for the larger
Chinese brands, you know that

1275
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,920
that are doing it properly like
the the elations and chauvets

1276
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,440
and stuff.
I don't, I don't know.

1277
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,320
I think don't they have to get
tested even in their US

1278
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,880
facilities?
But how you know how, I don't

1279
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,520
know because all I can tell you
is that if you want to change,

1280
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,280
let's say you want to change an
LED house, right, you've been

1281
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,440
going to have, you've got to
change that out.

1282
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,720
And that goes for a
certification process.

1283
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:24,240
Cost you like £1000 just to
change one not over if you know.

1284
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,040
Yeah, you know.
The way that manufacturing is

1285
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,360
done in the Far East to be
changing Sofia there and

1286
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,120
everywhere old imagine.
Right.

1287
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,640
So you know, I don't, I don't
know how to do it, but me

1288
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,400
neither no is it's very tight,
but we and we've got our number

1289
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,080
and we're getting ready to
manufacture now under the ETL

1290
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,280
certification.
Good for you.

1291
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,560
Congrats.
Yeah, that's a big, that's a big

1292
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:48,760
change.
Q.

1293
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,920
Two, this year we're going to,
we're going to start our first

1294
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,280
US manufacturing, which is up to
US manufacturing standards.

1295
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,800
Yeah, yeah.
So we are going to.

1296
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,560
We are.
We are coming, yeah, but we're

1297
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:01,600
coming quietly.
Good.

1298
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,040
Yeah, good.
Coming quietly, Very quietly.

1299
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,600
Well, if you want to borrow my
garage to store your inventory

1300
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,000
or something, just let me know
you know.

1301
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,240
Right.
I think there's something about

1302
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:11,520
quiet.
You know, there's something

1303
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,800
about it that that just allows
you to just get on with your

1304
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,640
business day-to-day without
being a you know, when you stick

1305
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,800
your head above the parapet, you
know you've got a chance of

1306
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,520
getting shot at, haven't you?
Well, the other thing is,

1307
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,200
instead of saying I need to deal
with all 100,000 customers out

1308
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,720
there, what you're saying is
basically no, I just need to

1309
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,520
deal with the 2000 best ones,
the ones that are at best fit

1310
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,000
for me and I'm the best fit for
them, right?

1311
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,319
And.
And that's it.

1312
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:43,000
That's done here in the in the
UK and it's, it's, you know,

1313
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,760
it's paid dividends to do that.
So I want to roll that now out

1314
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:50,760
into the US the you know, it's
it's the right move for us with

1315
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,600
the Betty got now and with
certification.

1316
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,120
You know we we we're coming.
Yeah, yeah.

1317
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:00,200
So and and I'd like.
Good luck to you, man.

1318
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,120
I, I, I obviously like you a lot
and I like the brand a lot.

1319
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,680
And I, I, I always believe
there's room, You know, it's,

1320
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,279
it's just like I was talking
with Gerard, you know, Gerard

1321
01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:13,840
said he's, he's always talking
to me about this lighting brand

1322
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,120
that he's got.
And, you know, it's always about

1323
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,560
finding the business model that
makes sense to a group of

1324
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,399
customers that are big enough to
make you successful given your

1325
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:28,439
model, right?
So not everyone can be a 50

1326
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,640
million or $100 million company,
but if you're targeting 5

1327
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,040
million now you've got a lot
more options open up to you on

1328
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,600
how you get.
To those 5 million, if you, if

1329
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,680
you think we're all our business
model has always been to, to try

1330
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,800
to make 20% net profit.
Yeah, well, if you, you know, if

1331
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,040
you're turning over 5 million,
you're making £1,000,000 net

1332
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,120
profit, right?
Yeah.

1333
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,000
And as one individual, why do
you ever need any more than

1334
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,680
that?
It's not.

1335
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,880
It's not necessary.
If you have a kid in horses or

1336
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,080
Motorsports.
Well, yeah, hoops, right?

1337
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,600
No, I.
Then you need more than that.

1338
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,320
Have one, this is in that.
But you know, I've slowly got

1339
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,320
away from that because me too.
Yeah, me too.

1340
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:11,560
Me too.
Trust me.

1341
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,960
That's I went through that over
the past couple of years.

1342
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,880
I had to.
I had to say Jeremy.

1343
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,640
I think, I genuinely think that
helicopters.

1344
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,280
Are cheaper.
It's probably true.

1345
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,120
Why?
By the way, you could make money

1346
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,440
with a helicopter.
You can't make money with a race

1347
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,280
or with a a, you know, show
jumping horse or a massage horse

1348
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:32,480
or something.
I've been flying for what, 25

1349
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:35,480
years?
And in that 25 years, it's

1350
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:38,840
probably cost me no more than to
own helicopters and would to own

1351
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,720
a Range Rover.
In true reality, really, Chin,

1352
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:46,720
is the depreciation is no worse
and the running costs are not

1353
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,120
really any worse, right?
Yeah.

1354
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,520
If there's two of you involved,
which there always has been when

1355
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,360
I've owned some, always owned it
with somebody else.

1356
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,120
Yeah.
If you get an AED, an air

1357
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:01,000
weapons directive on a blade or
something, you know, you share

1358
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,000
that cost between two of you,
Yeah, that way that works

1359
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,400
brilliantly, you know?
Everything's 50% off.

1360
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:09,120
You want to join on your own.
You got to be a little bit, you

1361
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,200
know, in the world.
I remember right after you got

1362
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,600
your your helicopter license, I
think you take me up in the

1363
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:21,120
helicopter, I'm dumb enough to
go up with you and you shut off

1364
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:25,760
the friggin engine and, and I'm
like, what the fuck are you

1365
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,200
doing?
What's, what are you doing?

1366
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,240
And the friggin thing's starting
to fall out of the sky and

1367
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,120
you're telling me, no, I'm doing
this on purpose.

1368
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,120
And I'm like losing my mind,
like we're going to die.

1369
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,480
And then you fire it back up
again and we land safely and I'm

1370
01:11:39,480 --> 01:11:41,920
like, I will never fly with you
again.

1371
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,160
He was always a person likes to
excitement Mars.

1372
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,360
I like excitement, I just don't
like dying in a helicopter.

1373
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,760
And shutting the motor off in
mid air is pretty dumb.

1374
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,760
Like at least an airplane can
float like this, you know?

1375
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,840
And land nicely.
Did we?

1376
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:02,920
Helicopter pretty much becomes a
rock when you shut the motor

1377
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:03,920
off.
Did we land?

1378
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:04,800
OK?
We did.

1379
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,400
Didn't.
We we did, but I think I might

1380
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,960
have shot myself.
I might have had a bit of a

1381
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,400
problem, Yeah.
What scared the hell out of me.

1382
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:17,680
Yeah, that's the way.
So what else?

1383
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:22,720
What else is what's, what's the
UK like?

1384
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,600
Do you struggle because of all
this Brexit and EU stuff?

1385
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,520
Like has it made it harder for
you to do business in Europe?

1386
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,080
The the problem with the problem
with the UK for for me anyway,

1387
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:35,880
yeah, I don't want to talk about
anywhere else in the world

1388
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,280
because that's, that's not for
me to do so.

1389
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:41,840
But the problem with the UK is
it it is no longer what it used

1390
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:43,960
to be.
I mean, back in 1990s, it used

1391
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,040
to be work hard, play hard,
right?

1392
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:47,880
Yeah.
Went on to a housing estate

1393
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,080
state and you saw, for example,
the Range Rover on the drive or

1394
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,480
you saw a BMW.
There's a very good chance, not

1395
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:56,080
totally, but a very good chance
that the person that was in that

1396
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,000
was a businessman or woman.
Right.

1397
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,320
Yeah, yeah.
And and it was work hard, play

1398
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:04,960
hard that was these days it's
work hard gets screwed harder.

1399
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:07,400
Yeah, work hard so they can play
hard.

1400
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,040
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, you know, and, and I've

1401
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,240
never really been into politics.
It's not who now to see the

1402
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,320
positive in everything, but I'm
struggling really badly at the

1403
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,840
moment to see any positive in
anything.

1404
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:21,800
Right.
Yeah.

1405
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:26,600
And any small to medium sized
business is seriously being

1406
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,600
screwed as hard as possible.
Yeah, that's terrible.

1407
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,720
And of course, a normal person
living in in a normal way on

1408
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:37,200
normal wages have been sort of,
you know, that that that income

1409
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,600
is being.
Yeah, it's terrible.

1410
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,080
It's terrible seeing what's
happening, the same things

1411
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:47,680
happening in Canada and you know
where I'm from, as you know, But

1412
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:51,360
a lot of it is it it again,
without getting too political,

1413
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,800
but a lot of it seems to be
coming down to just a way too

1414
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,120
liberal policy on immigration.
You know, you can't, you can't

1415
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,320
take a country with 25 million
people and invite 25,000,000

1416
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,120
more in who?
Half of those people, by the

1417
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,560
way, if you've got social
medicine, which you do in

1418
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,200
Canada, does.
They've never been to a doctor

1419
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,120
in their life.
And now they come in and it's

1420
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:14,840
all free.
They're like, hell yeah, I'm

1421
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,320
going to the doctor.
And now you can't see the Doctor

1422
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,760
anymore.
I think you know one I think one

1423
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,320
thing some things out with like
I say, without getting personal

1424
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,520
political, but.
Even though we are normal.

1425
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,480
Parents, normal person,
unfortunately in the UK, if they

1426
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:30,880
have to go to a doctor, it's
pretty difficult to do that at

1427
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,640
the moment.
Yeah, pay in and you know, it's

1428
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,160
just, it's just really quite
difficult.

1429
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,760
Yeah.
For people that are coming in

1430
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:44,360
into the country it seems to be
they get put a bit of a nice

1431
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:48,760
hotel and have 24° of heat.
Wherever they go.

1432
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:53,520
And they've got private
healthcare and that seems to me

1433
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:54,440
a little.
Weird.

1434
01:14:54,440 --> 01:14:57,920
It seems unfair, doesn't it?
It just seems again, again it,

1435
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:02,280
I, I think this is common in
politics and in government and

1436
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,880
stuff.
So we go too far One Direction

1437
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,880
where, you know, there's people
dying in the streets in Africa

1438
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,080
and different countries and
stuff, and we turn away and

1439
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:12,640
don't look at them and don't
help them.

1440
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,920
And then we suddenly hit the
brakes on that, which is the

1441
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,920
right thing to do.
And we say, hey, let's do our

1442
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,000
part to help them.
And then we go extreme in the

1443
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,720
other direction and.
Be the way.

1444
01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:28,200
You know, like United States is
a perfect example too.

1445
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,960
You know, we, we have almost 40
trillion in debt, yet people are

1446
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,560
screaming because we're not
sending more money to Ukraine or

1447
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,800
to other countries, right?
So how can you like, if my

1448
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,800
friend comes to me and I'm 40
trillion in debt and he asks me

1449
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,280
to borrow $5, I'm going to, I'm
going to give him one of these

1450
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:49,280
because it's how can I lend you
$5 if I have no money and I'm

1451
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:52,600
massively in debt?
I I'm not in a position to loan

1452
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,160
you money.
Very good, very, very good

1453
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:58,120
friend Mick Bentola, who's an
incredibly good friend of mine.

1454
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,240
He he's a businessman, He's
Italian, clearly.

1455
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:06,640
Yeah, His mum and dad, you know,
they, they came into the country

1456
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,240
and when they came into the
country they were told when you

1457
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,960
get here you got to work and you
got to work hard.

1458
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:13,600
If you don't work hard, you're
not standing here.

1459
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,640
Yeah, it's good.
I like that. 11 became A1,

1460
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,480
became I think worked in the
service industry doing the

1461
01:16:19,480 --> 01:16:24,080
laundries of hotels and stuff,
and the other I think became a

1462
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:25,680
Baker or something like that,
right.

1463
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:30,720
And they worked.
And Mick, they stored into him

1464
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,360
that he had to be a super
grafter.

1465
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,320
And I would say Mick works
harder probably than I do.

1466
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,640
Yeah, that's, that's the culture
that you want, isn't it?

1467
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:43,480
Yeah, yeah.
He's paying his taxes and paying

1468
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:46,200
them well, his mum and dad have
paid the taxes for their lives

1469
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,200
and they've been an asset on
every lap, right.

1470
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,600
And, and, and I think that's
where it should be in life,

1471
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:53,200
isn't it?
But.

1472
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:57,560
I hate to be negative.
That's so rare right now.

1473
01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,920
Like it is just so rare right
now.

1474
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:02,960
And, and I'm not, I'm not saying
it's all young people.

1475
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:04,560
I'm not saying it's all foreign
people.

1476
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,880
I'm not saying it's all
anything.

1477
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:10,760
I'm just saying as far as a
general cultural thing, it's

1478
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,200
it's rarer to have that type of
what can I do for you, what can

1479
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,560
I do for you versus what can you
do for me?

1480
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,360
When I first started abstract,
right, this was the reality of

1481
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,880
it.
We had 778 employees at one

1482
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:25,480
point, which was a good number
of people.

1483
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:26,240
Seven days.
Yeah.

1484
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:30,400
And but I used to be able to, if
somebody annoyed me, I used to

1485
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,560
be able to go and grab them by
the ear, pull them into me

1486
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,520
office and give them a right,
you know, tell them right and

1487
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,800
they'd accept system.
They go out and they go back to

1488
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,280
work.
Where in today's you know you

1489
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:47,040
can't do that and just doesn't,
it doesn't seem, and you might

1490
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,160
think, well, that seems a bit
unreasonable, but when people

1491
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:53,480
work for you, you're paying them
money for a service, aren't you?

1492
01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:55,400
Right.
Let's say you pay. $20.00 an

1493
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,040
hour, right?
You want one hour's work for

1494
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:01,880
your $20, don't you?
Yeah, well, most people work

1495
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:03,680
half of that.
Yeah.

1496
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:06,160
Really.
Now you're paying them £40 or

1497
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,840
$40.00 an hour, aren't you?
Just say where I'm coming from.

1498
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,560
So.
No, I, I know exactly where

1499
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:12,680
you're coming from and it's,
it's a sad state.

1500
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:17,200
Like the good news is though,
that that mentality creates a

1501
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,960
lot of opportunity for kids like
yours and mine who work their

1502
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,440
ass off for that $20.
You know they will.

1503
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:25,880
What they'll do is they'll say
I'm going to give you an hour

1504
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,520
and a half for for $20.
You want because that's what's

1505
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,240
going to, of course.
Yeah, you're is.

1506
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,240
That's what that's what will
make you the one person

1507
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,000
underneath the managing
director.

1508
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,080
And if not, the managing
director, of course.

1509
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,440
No, and it's just going to make
you a winner in life, you know,

1510
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:46,360
as opposed to the opposite.
So yeah, I mean, again, I think

1511
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:48,240
we went too far off into the
politics.

1512
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:51,920
But the it's frustrating because
especially, you know, you know,

1513
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:55,720
I live with a British woman and,
and she's sick to her stomach

1514
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:00,000
because she's our generation,
she's our age and she, she

1515
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,120
misses the England that she grew
up in.

1516
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,440
You know, she grew up in London
and it's not the same place that

1517
01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:09,440
it was when she grew up.
And of course people say, well,

1518
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:11,880
that's progress.
You know, things move forward.

1519
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:13,280
You don't want anything to sit
still.

1520
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,000
But it's not moving forward.
You know, it's, it's moving a

1521
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,800
different direction.
And and so maybe it's moving

1522
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,640
forward for some people, but I
don't think it's moving forward

1523
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,960
for all people.
And so.

1524
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,600
We can.
I don't think we can change any

1525
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:28,920
of this.
I mean that that's the true.

1526
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:31,800
You know, I was listening to a
Pierce Morgan.

1527
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,280
Was it Pierce Morgan?
No, it wasn't.

1528
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,000
No, it was Jordan Peterson,
Canadian.

1529
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,000
I don't know if you know who he
is, but he does a podcast and

1530
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,520
writes books and stuff.
But he interviewed and I don't

1531
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:46,480
know who this woman is, but
she's she's a black lady, I

1532
01:19:46,480 --> 01:19:49,880
think maybe from Nigeria.
Who is?

1533
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,480
I believe she's the head of the
Conservative Party in the UK

1534
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:53,600
right now.
OK.

1535
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,560
Yeah, I can't remember her name,
but I listened to about half the

1536
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:00,120
podcast.
Very sensible young lady and you

1537
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,120
know she.
I didn't really get in.

1538
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,200
I don't really get into politics
too much because.

1539
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,120
Oh, you don't.
I'm not really that, you know.

1540
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,960
I never was either until it
really started costing me.

1541
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,520
You.
Know when I when I when I

1542
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,960
couldn't afford the my employees
health insurance anymore, I

1543
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,960
went, wait a second, what's
going on here?

1544
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,160
There's something going on and I
need to pay attention.

1545
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,960
But I mean, what I'm saying is I
do think there's hope coming up

1546
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,920
in the young people.
I think, I think there's some

1547
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,600
new generation stuff coming up
where they're coming up with the

1548
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:38,160
same work ethic that we had.
Very smart, want to do better,

1549
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,120
want to change things for the
better.

1550
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,400
And, you know, like I heard her
on this podcast and she was

1551
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:48,280
saying, when I came to the UK in
1996, it's not like that

1552
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:50,480
anymore.
We'll try thinking back to the

1553
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:54,080
1976, you know, it was way
different back then.

1554
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:59,840
And so I, I, you know, again,
I'm, I think I'm an optimist.

1555
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,240
I know I'm an optimist.
So I always think that it's

1556
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,840
going to improve.
And I think, you know, some of

1557
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,680
the young people coming up right
now and, and you know, there's a

1558
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:12,040
lot of young people coming up in
the US political system as well,

1559
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,680
who I think are going to be very
strong in the future and they're

1560
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:19,200
going to help bring things back
to some level of normalcy.

1561
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:23,440
And, and so I think the same in
the UK, hopefully in Canada, I

1562
01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:25,960
don't know, but yeah, it's
interesting.

1563
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,160
But there's this thing going on,
I don't know if you've seen it,

1564
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,240
between Canada and the US right
now, where it's.

1565
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:34,840
Becoming a little bit a little
bit whole because to me in

1566
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,320
America they are they always
won.

1567
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:38,160
Really.
It might of.

1568
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,160
Course, yeah, Well, but but
legally they're not.

1569
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,640
And so so the current president
obviously is is just basically

1570
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,280
saying, hey, you know, we've
given you a lot of free stuff

1571
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:53,120
and we want payback on that now.
And that has become very, very

1572
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:56,200
political because he's, you
know, he doesn't say things in

1573
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,760
pleasant ways.
You know, he, he like, if, if

1574
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,000
you know, he'll just say it how
he feels and how, how it is or

1575
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,960
whatever, right.
And but it's created this grift

1576
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:10,120
between Canada and the US and,
and Canadians are just basically

1577
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,600
like Americans are mean and, and
nasty.

1578
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,080
And I'm Canadian and American,
right?

1579
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:19,680
I I have both passports.
From both both sides.

1580
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,640
But I also, I'm taking it from
both sides, you know, because

1581
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:27,000
my, my family and friends know
who I voted for and, and you

1582
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:30,320
know, so sometimes I don't know,
it just doesn't feel good.

1583
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,200
Like, I wish we could get past
this part right now because it

1584
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:35,680
feels really.
I, I I totally agree with that.

1585
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,840
They just kept me charges
plugged in because it's it's so.

1586
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:43,880
Is your computer blinking?
Yeah.

1587
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,080
We don't want that to happen, no
way, because that we.

1588
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:47,680
Don't you?
Wouldn't be the first one

1589
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:51,320
though, remarkably.
I'd say that well, ah, there we

1590
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,800
go.
My podcast is my podcast is

1591
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,400
called Geezers of Gear, Steve.
So we do get some older folks on

1592
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:00,600
here who don't really know how
to work their computer very

1593
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:01,880
well.
And so sometimes it's.

1594
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:04,480
But it's on the hell.
It's charged you beautifully.

1595
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:07,320
So real good.
Yeah, it gets a bit sketchy at

1596
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,800
times, so.
If that's because it, because

1597
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:16,000
you see, like if, if my son was
doing this computer stuff, it'd

1598
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,040
be all sorted and organised,
right?

1599
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,480
Yeah, yeah.
What's this button do?

1600
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:22,840
What's that one do?
I'm pretty good at it.

1601
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,160
I'm pretty good at.
It you've had a very good with

1602
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,720
my.
Yeah, and I don't, you know,

1603
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,680
like you've always had employees
so you could call somebody in to

1604
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,840
fix your stuff, right?
I can't, you know, I'm, I have

1605
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:36,920
no employees here.
They're my employees are

1606
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:40,120
scattered around the world.
If if I was just challenged you

1607
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:43,880
right and and say how you see
the entertainment industry

1608
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:47,040
moving forward, you know, with
AI and all of these things

1609
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,560
that's happening, how do you see
the future?

1610
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:55,720
As as well, you know, industry,
it's a great question because

1611
01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:00,880
I'm constantly talking about
that kind of stuff and I see it

1612
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:03,480
very different.
You know, I see, I think we're

1613
01:24:03,480 --> 01:24:05,880
going to have AI and enabled
light fixtures.

1614
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:09,080
I think we're going to have AI
enabled all kinds of things.

1615
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,960
So you're going to have less
brains in the control system,

1616
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:13,720
probably more brains in the
light.

1617
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:16,640
So if you think back to the
twister with the really smart

1618
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,600
sound to light chip in it,
you're going to have twisters

1619
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,080
that are able to look out at the
dance floor, figure out the

1620
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:26,920
dimensions of the dance floor
and adjust their movement based

1621
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:28,760
on the dimensions of the dance
floor.

1622
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:33,480
And they'll be able to not only
pick up the beat of the music,

1623
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:37,200
but the genre of the music.
Oh, this is reggae.

1624
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:41,520
So I should probably, you know,
do this type of movement or not

1625
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,720
move at all and just change
colour or whatever.

1626
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:48,160
And so you're going to have AI
enabled products across the

1627
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,840
board, whether it's speakers or
sound or lighting or control

1628
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,880
systems or whatever.
I think we're going to keep

1629
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,840
seeing smarter and smarter
controls.

1630
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,680
An I think the people running
those controls are probably

1631
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,520
going to have to do less tedious
work.

1632
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:06,600
And so right now it all sounds
very threatening to people.

1633
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,600
I think they're thinking, you
know, programmers are not going

1634
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,880
to be necessary anymore because,
you know, AI is going to do all

1635
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:14,880
the.
Programmes so it feels it could

1636
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:16,960
feel very threatening to.
It does.

1637
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,000
Yeah, it does to a lot.
Of people all these are in

1638
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,440
reality kind of very powerful
commodity within the

1639
01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:27,120
entertainment industry because
they will decide what fixtures

1640
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:30,240
they're going to use which then
generates that hire companies

1641
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:34,040
have got to have the stock of
those type of fixtures yeah you

1642
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:36,800
know that and and I.
Don't know that that's going to

1643
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:40,840
change anytime soon because I
think someone's always going to

1644
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:44,840
have to sort of read the room,
speak with the artist, speak

1645
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:47,400
with the production manager,
figure out what the budget is

1646
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,160
like.
Yes, could you have an AILD?

1647
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:54,840
Probably, but it, it just, I
think that that's a relationship

1648
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,800
that's going to stay in the loop
when you, when you talk about

1649
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:01,840
the operator though, and the
programmer, like I, I don't

1650
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:04,240
think it's, it's much different
than anything else.

1651
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:08,640
Like I, I just think that we're
going to be advancing to a point

1652
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,080
where we don't have to be the
guy working the shovel anymore

1653
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:16,200
because now you have, you know,
front end things with the scoop

1654
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:18,320
on the front of it, those
tractor things, whatever they're

1655
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,600
called caterpillars.
And so we don't have to dig

1656
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:25,320
holes as much as we used to, or.
We don't have to assist the

1657
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,640
oldies and the programmers and
all the rest of it to make it's

1658
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,880
quicker and probably become
more, more if it, you know, more

1659
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:33,720
efficient.
Do you use AI at all yet?

1660
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,000
No.
New stuff that's coming,

1661
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:40,800
clearly.
That's why I asked.

1662
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,360
No, I mean yourself, just for
your day-to-day work.

1663
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,440
We, we started to, we started to
experience and, and and work

1664
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:52,280
with AI, but I'm not using it
in, in any accounting or

1665
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:53,240
anything like that.
I'm not doing.

1666
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:54,800
Yeah.
I mean, you and I should have an

1667
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:59,560
offline conversation someday
because like for example, you

1668
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:06,040
know, I will, I will like we do
because my staff are all

1669
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:07,720
completely remote all over the
world.

1670
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:10,920
I don't have any staff in the
same room as me at any time.

1671
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:16,280
And so all of our business
operates around a platform

1672
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:18,440
called Rome, which is a virtual
platform.

1673
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:23,800
And so I can look and see who's
in their offices, in my office

1674
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:27,920
building on my screen, and I can
go knock on somebody's door and

1675
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,760
say, hey, how are you?
You know, so, and we'll talk,

1676
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:33,480
we'll have a conversation just
like I'm in his office, right?

1677
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,960
Well, the system takes notes on
every one of those calls.

1678
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:43,560
And so after the call, the next
day, a month from now, I can go

1679
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:45,760
back to those meeting notes
because I don't have to write

1680
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:48,480
any notes anymore.
I can go back to those notes and

1681
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:51,720
I can say what was Steve saying
about the twister?

1682
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,680
You know, why was the sound to
light better in that twister?

1683
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,760
I can just ask it a question and
it'll say great, great question.

1684
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,920
You know, he looked at this
little moving flower thing and

1685
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,600
he took the chip out of it and
it had this incredible chip in

1686
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,760
it that did things like this and
this and this and that's why it

1687
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,200
was better.
So you can just ask questions of

1688
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,880
it.
And so that is something I use

1689
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:18,800
that all day everyday just to.
And so another thing it could do

1690
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,560
is let's say you have a meeting
with one of your engineers, for

1691
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,680
example, and they're not doing a
very good job and there's a lot

1692
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:29,480
of problems with the fixtures.
And you could have a meeting

1693
01:28:29,480 --> 01:28:31,840
with that person and it takes
notes.

1694
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:35,840
And after that meeting, you
could simply say, should I fire

1695
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:40,120
him or not?
And they tell you, you know,

1696
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:44,200
he's got really good ideas when
it comes to this, this and this

1697
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:47,080
and and he made a mistake over
here and here, but I think he

1698
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,120
covered it up with some really
good information.

1699
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,640
And based on the history, you
say that he's been with the

1700
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,120
company for 17 years and blah,
blah, blah.

1701
01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:57,160
I would give him another chance.
But here's one.

1702
01:28:57,160 --> 01:28:59,880
Here's a a step by step plan you
should put in place.

1703
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:02,560
One, make sure he shows up for
work on time 2.

1704
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:06,760
Make him read this book.
Oh my God, it's unbelievable.

1705
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:10,480
Like so it's it's my best
employee now don't tell my staff

1706
01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:12,120
that, but it is my best
employee.

1707
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:15,960
I use it all day every day for
so many different things.

1708
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,800
You know, I don't know, you
probably haven't seen it and

1709
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,800
I'll I'll I'll tell you what
I'll do one for you.

1710
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:26,680
I can so I do an AI podcast now,
not me podcasting about AIA

1711
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:31,640
podcast completely done by AI.
So the the logo is AI, the intro

1712
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:37,240
music is AI and the podcasters,
the it's a man and a woman and

1713
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:41,440
it's 100% AI.
And so you could send me a press

1714
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:46,040
release or some documents about
a new product or something and

1715
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:49,960
these people will put together
like a 15 or 20 minute podcast

1716
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:53,400
to talk about those products.
They'll be like, Oh my God, have

1717
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:57,280
you seen this new abstract
Twister 97.5?

1718
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,800
It is unbelievable.
Oh yeah, it's just like the old

1719
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,520
Twisters, but it's LED.
Yeah, I mean, it's incredible.

1720
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,480
And.
It goes, this flower, it's.

1721
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:13,920
Not the dancing bloody flower,
but it's it's so damn cool and.

1722
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,680
On the next light, yeah, it's
going to stay on the back,

1723
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,000
powered by the dancing flower.
Perfect.

1724
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,840
Why don't you just do a light
called the dancing flower?

1725
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:25,400
That's.
British yeah, you know, that

1726
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:29,800
could be that's that's the
perfect 35th celebration light

1727
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:32,240
in it, the dancing.
Yeah, the dancing flower.

1728
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:34,240
Yeah.
It's got a ring to, isn't it?

1729
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,360
Yeah.
Dancing flower?

1730
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,280
Yeah.
You just got to figure out what

1731
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:42,720
is a dancing flower. 100 dancing
flowers on the tour.

1732
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:47,200
Yeah, that's hilarious.
But yeah, so I, I mean, I use it

1733
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,000
constantly for all kinds.
You know, I, I had AI had a

1734
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:57,000
slight medical problem this week
and I had to go to, I did some

1735
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:02,040
testing and I think basically
because I'm pretty healthy,

1736
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:05,440
believe it or not, I'm probably
35 lbs lighter than I was last

1737
01:31:05,440 --> 01:31:08,680
time you saw me.
And I exercise every day.

1738
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:11,080
I eat right.
I, I live pretty well now.

1739
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:15,120
And, but I take a bunch of
supplements and I think what I

1740
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:18,080
did is I've added a couple
supplements and I think there's

1741
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:21,960
a, there's a conflict in there
somewhere and it's caused my

1742
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:26,120
blood pressure to start spiking.
And just right after I'll drink

1743
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,600
a smoothie and I'll take my
supplements and boom, my blood

1744
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:32,200
pressure jumps up.
So, so, so yeah, what I've done

1745
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:36,240
is I've loaded in these like 12
supplements that I take each way

1746
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:40,240
into AI and I've said I'm having
a problem with blood, blood

1747
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:41,680
pressure.
Can you tell me what might be

1748
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:44,000
happening?
I mean, it gave me like, I'll,

1749
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:46,360
I'll tell you what, I'll text,
I'll send you the link.

1750
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:51,520
You can see what it says and
you'll be like, holy shit, it's

1751
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:53,320
wild.
It is wild.

1752
01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:56,360
And he's told me how to fix it.
Told me how to fix it.

1753
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:59,200
It gave me a point by point plan
on what to try.

1754
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:03,120
Here's the probable culprits.
So try eliminating this one

1755
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,640
first and then this one.
And yeah, I mean, it's

1756
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:07,520
unbelievable.
It's, it's so good.

1757
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,600
One of the challenges, it lies
to you occasionally.

1758
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:14,640
So if it doesn't know an answer,
it won't say I don't know it'll

1759
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,640
make one up.
Oh my God.

1760
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,600
Yeah, yeah.
Sort of like a guy you and I

1761
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:21,400
know he he would do the same
thing.

1762
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:23,880
He would always do the same
thing.

1763
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:27,000
He would just make up a bullshit
answer and you'd be like, well,

1764
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:29,320
it sounds smart.
I guess he's telling the truth.

1765
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:31,240
Must be right.
Yeah.

1766
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:35,720
But yeah, So, you know, I, I
like if you ever want to really

1767
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:39,000
jump in and start using some AI
stuff on your day-to-day, just

1768
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:43,560
let's jump on a different call
and I'll go through four or five

1769
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,560
things that you could start
using that'll change your life.

1770
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,200
I promise.
We're going to Yes, it was.

1771
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:49,640
Brilliant.
Like even you know what you

1772
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:52,120
could do?
You could go to your fridge and

1773
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:54,840
you could take a picture of the
inside of your fridge and say

1774
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:58,520
here's all the food I've got.
Tell me some things that I could

1775
01:32:58,520 --> 01:32:59,960
make.
What?

1776
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:05,600
And it will swear to God.
Or you could take a picture of

1777
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:08,240
your spice rack and say, these
are the spices I have.

1778
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:10,080
What?
What could I put together with

1779
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:12,640
these spices and a couple
steaks, you know?

1780
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:16,800
I never do it for you.
Oh my God, that's that's just.

1781
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:18,560
It's insane.
It's insane.

1782
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:22,400
I mean, imagine having a tool
that has access to all the

1783
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:25,560
world's information and all you
need to do is ask a question and

1784
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:27,960
it can answer it.
That's what it does and that's

1785
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:31,240
on the simplest level, like it
does so much more than that.

1786
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:38,440
So yeah, I mean, you can have it
look at, you know, here's all

1787
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:40,800
the files I've got stored about
the twister.

1788
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,920
Can you read all of these
different documents and then

1789
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:47,560
tell me what the next twister
which I want to call the the

1790
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:49,840
dancing flower?
What should it be?

1791
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:51,720
What should it be?
It'll tell you.

1792
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,200
It'll tell you.
That's just fantastic, isn't it?

1793
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,920
It'll tell you.
Yeah, yeah, it's.

1794
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:57,320
Interesting.
You need to, you need to, you

1795
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:01,840
need to get AI to scan all 300
podcasts right?

1796
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:04,880
And then tell it to make its own
podcast stove.

1797
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,000
It's funny because we're
actually working on something

1798
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:08,840
there, my friend.
I'm.

1799
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:10,560
Going to be brilliant.
It's scandal.

1800
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,200
Yeah.
Podcast yeah, yeah yeah.

1801
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:17,520
And makes it like spurious.
That's a lot of work though,

1802
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,880
because what you'd have to do is
you'd have to download the

1803
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:24,480
transcripts for all 300 podcasts
and then have it review all of

1804
01:34:24,480 --> 01:34:26,720
those transcripts because you
can get it to watch YouTube

1805
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:28,800
videos.
And based on these YouTube

1806
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,840
videos, tell me blah, blah,
blah.

1807
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,440
Like I could, I could put in a
video of this podcast that we're

1808
01:34:35,440 --> 01:34:38,120
doing right now.
I could just put the link to the

1809
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:42,960
video in a certain AI app I've
got and it'll watch the video

1810
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:46,040
and basically tell me, you know,
the 10 cool things that we

1811
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:49,080
talked about or whatever.
Or it could do a podcast about

1812
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:53,040
this podcast.
So right.

1813
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:56,320
I just showed you the the where
the future's going, isn't it?

1814
01:34:56,480 --> 01:34:59,200
Exactly.
So all I can tell you is for

1815
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:03,080
sure it's going to be different.
I don't believe in I'm not so

1816
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:06,320
big on like these virtual
concerts and stuff where people

1817
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:10,360
wear like those meta threads on
their face and and they go stand

1818
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,440
in a crowd and and this is a
concert now.

1819
01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:16,720
I think there's always going to
be live bands on stage audience

1820
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:22,720
over here, you know, and like, I
don't know, like maybe custom

1821
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:24,680
mixes.
I could see people going to

1822
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:28,520
concerts with headphones on
instead of, you know, instead of

1823
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:30,880
just blasting the sound out at
them.

1824
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:33,600
I think there's going to be some
sound things like right now a

1825
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,440
lot of the sound technology is
going to like these multiple

1826
01:35:36,440 --> 01:35:39,760
points, smaller speakers, but
lots of them where you've you're

1827
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,960
completely surrounded by sound
everywhere, like this sphere in

1828
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,240
Las Vegas.
I'm going to go.

1829
01:35:45,480 --> 01:35:49,280
I'm going to go there hopefully
this next to this year, yeah.

1830
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:51,040
So are you going?
To be at LDI this year.

1831
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:54,320
No, no, I'm not going to hold it
there, but bummer.

1832
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:55,640
You know, we're just going to go
on holiday.

1833
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:56,760
We're going to go holiday in.
We're.

1834
01:35:58,160 --> 01:36:02,240
Going to go to.
Vegas and what I'll be Yeah, all

1835
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:03,960
good that'll be.
Fun.

1836
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:07,160
Well, I mean, it's, it's
certainly been a blast catching

1837
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:08,680
up with you.
Yeah, and you too.

1838
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:09,960
Well, so brilliant.
Thank you.

1839
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:13,760
And we should have a longer
personal call at some point and

1840
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:16,720
we can talk about AI and we can
tell the real truth about what

1841
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:22,000
we think of the industry.
And just kidding, I love the

1842
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:24,760
industry.
It is a fun industry.

1843
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:27,280
I mean, if you have to do
something, this is a pretty fun

1844
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,000
place to do it, you know?
Yeah.

1845
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:31,680
And, and at the end of the day,
the reality is this, this

1846
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:36,400
industry is, you know, it's
billions and billions and

1847
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:40,040
billions of dollars, right?
There's not many other

1848
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:43,760
industries that really expand
out as massively as what

1849
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:48,200
entertainment does because it
just, it just captivates

1850
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,520
everything, didn't it?
From truck drivers to cooks to.

1851
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:53,160
Pioneer everything.
Yeah.

1852
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,560
It's huge, right?
Yeah, no.

1853
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:58,200
And and you don't feel that like
when you go to a trade show or

1854
01:36:58,200 --> 01:37:00,600
something, it feels like a
really small industry and you

1855
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,440
know, all the people in it, like
I know everyone in this

1856
01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:06,520
industry, right.
But even that's changing like as

1857
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,000
we get older, you know, there's
three generation under us now.

1858
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,880
And and so even that's changing.
Like I walk around trade shows

1859
01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:17,040
and go I don't know anyone here.
When when we first bought out

1860
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:21,680
the X lights, right And some of
the first customers were sons

1861
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:24,600
and daughters.
Yeah, the.

1862
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:26,480
Of those companies you used to
work with?

1863
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:29,440
Because the parents used to have
abstract.

1864
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:31,760
That's wild.
That's really cool.

1865
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,120
Because the parents had
abstracts the parents.

1866
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:36,760
Abstract The thing with the
generational brand and.

1867
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:38,280
The thing with abstracts
zigging.

1868
01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:41,520
Generations with abstract.
Well, they, they, they were, you

1869
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,360
know, well, that's kind of it.
But they always say one thing is

1870
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:46,360
that the the product never
breaks.

1871
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:48,480
Yeah.
And there's a lot of truth

1872
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:50,920
behind that, you know?
Well, you know what I mean?

1873
01:37:51,480 --> 01:37:53,960
At the end of the day, like you
take a lot of pride.

1874
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:55,400
You've been doing it a long
time.

1875
01:37:55,480 --> 01:37:58,680
Every fixture, every product
that goes out of that factory,

1876
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:01,720
you've touched it or looked at
it or something, you know?

1877
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:04,280
And yeah, I mean, it's
meaningful.

1878
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:07,000
That's meaningful.
I love buying local.

1879
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:10,200
I love buying, you know, but in
our industry, it's getting

1880
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,160
harder and harder.
Like, look at a country and A

1881
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:17,680
and a market the size of the US.
There's not that many US

1882
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,440
manufacturers anymore, you know,
very few, very few.

1883
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:24,840
That it might change now under
the new regime.

1884
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:26,200
Who knows?
Who knows?

1885
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,120
Like I think that's a lot of
noise right now.

1886
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:30,680
That'll probably quiet down, but
pretty nice.

1887
01:38:32,480 --> 01:38:35,960
Yeah.
Yeah, Right, Steve.

1888
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:40,200
Thanks mate, appreciate it.
Good to see you and I hope to

1889
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,040
see you in real life at some
point here.

1890
01:38:42,440 --> 01:38:46,840
My girlfriend's going to London
on Thursday to see her her mom

1891
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:50,560
but but I'm not going with her
this time so.

1892
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:53,760
You stay at home.
I'll stay at home.

1893
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:56,720
Hope you enjoy your your cabin
anyway.

1894
01:38:57,680 --> 01:38:59,680
I'm not there.
I'm I'm in Florida right now.

1895
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:00,880
All right.
So you don't.

1896
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:01,640
You don't.
You don't.

1897
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,920
I go to Canada in like June, May
OR.

1898
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:06,360
It's a lovely place, isn't?
It it is nice.

1899
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:07,560
You should come up there.
Yeah.

1900
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,200
Let's go visit.
It looks to me somewhere really

1901
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:11,560
special.
It is.

1902
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:13,880
You should come and visit.
And I have loads of space too.

1903
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,240
So you could have your own floor
in it.

1904
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:18,240
Oh, wow.
That's how you got your own.

1905
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:20,360
It's not a big floor, but it is
a floor.

1906
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:22,320
Floor, right?
The floor is a floor.

1907
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,440
You got your own floor.
Yeah.

1908
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,000
All right, mate.
I really appreciate it mate.

1909
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:28,920
All right, see you later.
Cheers.

1910
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:32,640
Bye.
And today's podcast episode

1911
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,160
number 300 is also brought to
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1912
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