The Human Frequency: Sound Engineering, Gear, and the Reality of the Road - Aaron Buck

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So every year there was a Blues
Festival and I was helping the,

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he was actually the front house
engineer set up for this Blues

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Festival.
And then he fell I'll during the

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setup, right?
And he was like, I'm going to

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have to go on.
Do you think you can do this?

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And I was like, I'm going to say
yes, whether I think I can do it

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or not, right?
And that was kind of like my

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baptism of fire.
And all of a sudden I was there

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mixing bands and it was like
that.

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That was the push I needed.
And then they started hiring me

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from that base.
And then I went on tour with a

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punk bank called The Damned when
I was 17.

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I went on tour with monitors
from the Damned.

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And then from then it kind of
snowballed.

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And then I left that little PA
company I was working for and

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started working with different
bands and, and now and now I've

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become a production manager for
the last three years who still

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makes his monitors.
Well, hello and thanks for

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joining me for another episode
of Gears of Gear.

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And so today I want to talk to
you for a minute about a couple

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of big shows, trade shows, not
concert shows, but trade shows.

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First, Nam.
If you saw one of my most recent

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episodes, you saw that I had the
president of Nam on and we

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talked a lot about what they
were going to do.

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And now I've heard a lot about
what they have done.

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So I didn't go to the show this
year.

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I spent a lot of years going to
Nam, as you may have heard, but

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I didn't go this year.
And from what I've heard, it's

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continuing to become a really
great show for audio, but still

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not crushing on lighting.
And of course, part of that is

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because of the lighting
companies.

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There's probably a lot of
companies who are like, you know

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what, not another trade show,
you know, sorry, because these

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lighting booths are very
expensive and, you know, maybe

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the margins aren't quite the
same as audio or they're not as

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large companies as audio or
whatever.

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But it's tough to go in and do
these $1,000,000 trade show

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booths.
And so I completely understand.

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I'm not bagging on any of the
lighting companies, believe me.

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But you know, I know NAMM for
many years because I was part of

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it back then.
They've tried to attract

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lighting companies and there's
sort of a little surge and

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they'll come and then they'll go
away again.

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So, But yeah, I've heard a lot
of great things about the show

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from an educational standpoint.
I've heard Nam did an amazing

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job this year.
A lot of really cool events, a

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lot of bands, concerts, shows.
So Congrats to Nam on that.

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And of course, this week, if you
are under a rock and maybe

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haven't heard about it, there's
a show in Barcelona called ISE,

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which stands for Integrated
Systems Europe.

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And it's funny because I was
actually talking with someone

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about this yesterday.
Technically it's an integration

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show.
It's in the name, you know,

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Integration or Integrated
Systems Europe.

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And so it's a lot like maybe a
European Infocom, you could say.

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And probably people in Europe
are going to correct me and say

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it's nothing like Infocom, but
it really is.

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And in recent years, though,
it's really taken over for

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rental and production too.
And you know, again, all the

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lighting manufacturers, sound
manufacturers, video, all the

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big companies are there
exhibiting.

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And a lot of companies, a lot of
rental companies from around

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Europe and even from the US and
other parts of the world as well

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are also going to this show.
So I think that maybe some of

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the reason that it's taken over
so much is because Prolite is no

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longer a show.
The Frankfurt show is gone.

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You know, people have told me,
no, that's not the case.

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It's a different show.
But I think that that's what

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happened.
And I also think that

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manufacturers and attendees love
Barcelona.

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It's a great city to have to go
to, especially at this time of

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year, and just a fabulous place,
beautiful country, of course,

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wonderful people.
So going to Barcelona in, in

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January when the rest of the
world is cold and miserable is

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probably a pretty good idea.
And so, yeah, I've, I've heard

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the show is massive.
Every year it seems to be

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growing by leaps and bounds.
And so that's a good thing.

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So around the ISC show, I looked
for some press releases that are

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out there and some new equipment
coming out.

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I would love to be at ISC, but
unfortunately I have to work.

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And so ETC has announced that
they've acquired Feros and this

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one was interesting.
ETC.

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Of course, being one of our
sponsors, we love them, but I

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thought they already owned
Pharaohs for some reason.

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I thought it was an ETC brand
that was wholly owned by ETC,

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but I guess it was a partnership
or distribution deal of some

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sort that's been going on I
think 20 plus years.

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And I've used Pharaohs in a lot
of installations in the past

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when I had an LED company.
And so I really love to see the

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stuff that ETC is doing, whether
or not they're a sponsor.

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I love what they're doing.
I love that they're really

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pushing this brand forward.
Not that they were, you know, a

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sleepy brand or anything, but
they were really known as a

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theatrical brand and now they
really are expanding.

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They're much bigger in both
architectural and rock'n'roll

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entertainment lighting too.
So Congrats to ETC, Congrats to

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Pharos, obviously a very good
match.

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And also in acquisition news,
Audio Tonics announced that they

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are buying three companies, not
just one.

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They have to upstage ETC and and
announce 3 acquisitions at the

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same time.
And so they are buying DPA

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microphones or have already
bought.

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I don't know what stage the
transaction is in, but DPA is a

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great brand of course really
good microphones.

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Wizzycomm I don't know much
about, I assume it's a COM

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system, but again, I haven't
been paying attention to what

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Wizzy Com is or what they're
doing.

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And Austrian audio.
So congratulations to Audio

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Tonics and of course to the
other brands involved.

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If you don't know who Audio
Tonics is, you know they're the

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brand that is behind and owns
Digico and Allen and Heath and

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many other brands as well.
So very large audio company run

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by a really great CEO and just a
nice company.

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So Congrats to everyone.
In other ISE news, some of the

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releases that I've seen or
videos or whatever, I did see

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the Joseph Velchar video from
Robe, who is announcing the Robe

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Gigapoint.
And so obviously there is a

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trend that is continuing on
creating lights that are able to

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project shows on Earth from the
moon or something.

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You know, they need to keep
getting brighter and brighter.

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And you know, I don't know how
many lumens we're going to get

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to at some point, but this one
apparently is pretty bright.

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Of course, the mega point,
wildly successful light for the

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last 10 years or however long
it's been out, still on the used

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market, we sell them like crazy.
Megapoint, hugely successful

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light and the Gigapoint or
Gigapointy, as I guess Roby like

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to pronounce it, will probably
also be successful.

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No idea what the price is.
I'm sure it's not cheap.

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Mac One from Martin, of course,
a wildly successful fixture.

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And if you've been listening to
my podcast, you know that it's

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one of my little personal
favorites.

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I've always loved the Mac one
since the moment I saw that it

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saw it released.
I love the packaging.

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I love the size, the weight.
The price, of course, hits a

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perfect price point.
And they've sold somewhere in

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the neighborhood of a bazillion
of them.

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So they've sold a lot of Mac
ones and now they have the Mac

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One Beam.
And again, stupid me, I thought

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the Mac 1 was a Beam, so I guess
not.

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I guess this one is officially a
beam.

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The Mac 1 was sort of a beam,
but congratulations to Martin on

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that, I'm sure it will do very
well.

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Beams are very popular and the
Mac 1 is very popular.

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Sounds like a match made in
heaven.

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DNB has a bunch of new releases,
which I'm not going to go

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through, but one of them EU
series is networked and self

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powered speaker line that is
apparently both for

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installation, which I thought
that that was what it was

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targeting when they say that
it's networked, but apparently

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also for live and and for club
installs and stuff like that.

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So we'll see.
You know, the big keep getting

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bigger DNB and L acoustic, of
course, and so I'm sure they'll

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do very well with it.
Another trend that I've seen not

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only this year, but for the past
several years is this immersive

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audio brand trend brand.
And we're going to see a lot

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more immersive audio projects
being announced and products

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being announced for those
projects as well, of course.

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But rank as Heinz, Nexo and
others are all launching new

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immersive audio products.
And they're also using these

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immersive audio sort of
environments to show those

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products as well.
So I kind of wish I was there to

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see that or hear that.
I think it's probably pretty

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cool.
Check it out our friends at

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Elation or ADJ Group.
Obsidian has a new full size

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console, I guess called the NX3.
I don't know much about it and

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I'm not a console guy.
I'm not a operator or programmer

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or anyone who knows to talk very
smartly about that stuff.

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So you can look it up.
The Obsidian NX3I can tell you

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the pictures look really cool.
It's got lots of cool features.

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I think it's 64 universes.
So it's it's a pretty powerful

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little console and I'm sure
they'll do very well with it.

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I've seen a lot, a lot more
noise coming from Obsidian and

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that's great because they're
obviously great people.

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It's a nice product.
I know they've done very well in

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television and it's sort of
doing really well in that sort

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of mid, mid range of console
stuff where it competes probably

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with camsys and and maybe even
some of the hog stuff.

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So congratulations to them on
that launch.

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Speaking of elation, they have a
bunch of other new releases,

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including new stuff from soul
range, fuse range, rebel and

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Paragon where they are showing
the long throw Paragon Lt.

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again, another, you know, shoot
from space light and so that's

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cool.
And also the Helio track, which

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is AI guess Lidar tracking
system, another one jumping into

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that arena.
Let's face it, follow spots are

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not going to be around much
longer.

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So they got to be replaced with
something.

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And there are a few really great
options out there.

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And now Elation has one.
I'm sure it's priced really well

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and I haven't heard yet how well
it works.

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So I can't really honestly tell
you anything.

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But Elation's a great company.
I'm sure they'll make it work.

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And Congrats on that stuff.
Lot more new releases.

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I could talk all day about it,
but I won't.

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And one other one that I wanted
to mention, the honorable or

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dishonorable mention, I don't
know, but Christie Video has

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launched a new series of
projectors called Chorus.

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And I saw the photo and it just
looks like somebody went and

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raided the Komar factory and
found some old gnat parts.

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It looks like a Komar Nat.
It's got a Periscope sort of

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lens at the front of it, which
is actually kind of an

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interesting idea for, you know,
a projector that you can kind of

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mount in any position and then
aim it in any direction.

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So the lens doesn't have to
point, point forward.

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Neat idea, but it's funny, I
mentioned it to Fausto, formerly

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of Komar, who who designed and,
and built the the Nat along with

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Bruno Didoro.
And Fausto said, I can tell them

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all of the reasons why it's not
going to work very well.

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And so very funny comment from a
guy who had every possible

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plausible problem you could
imagine from the Nat.

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And I guess mostly around the
fact when you start adding a

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bunch of lenses that are sort
of, you know, this direction

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aiming to hit this one, going to
this one and then out the front,

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you cut your output
tremendously.

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And you also open a lot more
surfaces up to whether it's dirt

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or dust or fog fluid or any kind
of stuff.

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So we'll see.
You know, Christie are a smart

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company.
They're a very big company.

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I'm sure they'll get it right.
And it's a neat idea on the

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surface.
And so today on the podcast, we

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are joined by Aaron Buck.
Aaron is a touring professional

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00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,720
with over 20 years of experience
working with artists like

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Anastasia Shakira, Status Quo,
Cat Stevens and Calvin Harris.

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00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,800
He started as a monitor engineer
and now is the production

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manager for OMD, who I know as
Orchestral Maneuvers in the

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Dark, where he's been part of
the team since 2017.

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00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,600
Aaron is a trained L Acoustic K1
Tech DNB system specialist and a

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00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,440
strong advocate for mental
health in the touring industry.

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00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,880
Originally from the north of
England and now based in Bonn,

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00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,640
Germany, he's all about staying
calm under pressure.

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Maybe he can tell me how to do
that, finding balance on the

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road and saying yes to life.
Let's welcome Aaron Buck.

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00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:45,320
So we're we're talking about
diet here and, and you know like

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2 crazy freaking rock'n'roll
people talking about diet and

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exercise.
Right.

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And pescatarianism.
I was telling, I was telling

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Aaron that I had been a
pescatarian for a while.

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Well, I was a vegetarian for a
little while because someone I

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knew died from cancer, colon
cancer, and I just sort of went

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over the edge the other
direction.

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And so I was a vegetarian.
And then I got bored and became

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a pescatarian.
And then I kind of inched my way

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back into chicken.
And, you know, now I eat steaks.

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So not very often, but I do.
But what were you saying about

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pescatarians?
I was going to say, I thought

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there was like a punchline thing
coming when you said then I went

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pescatarian, thought you were
going to say, and I got mercury

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poisoning because I recently
heard of, And I know this

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person, somebody who works in
our industry who is a Rep, you

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00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,160
know, for a very large global
corporation, let's say, OK, And

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their job is to basically, you
know, go and treat the clients

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and.
Take people out to dinner.

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Sure.
And this particular company I

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did, it's always sushi.
Everyone's going to know exactly

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which is who I'm talking about.
It's always sushi that they

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bring in or get or take you to a
restaurant.

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And this person is was in
hospital for quite some time

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with mercury poisoning from
eating too much sushi.

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Wow.
I work.

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00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,600
I know it's like a crazy things
you can get rid of and it makes

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you kind of lose your marbles
from all.

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Yeah, from what I've heard,
you're.

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An audio guy.
And so I don't know exactly who

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you're talking about, but here
in the US, Christy Lights,

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00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,560
there's a guy named Chris McCann
who, you know, just go look at

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his Instagram or, or Facebook,
like every single day he's

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eating.
And he doesn't eat cheap sushi

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either.
He eats the good stuff, you

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know, so he's going for Omakasi
and, you know, all that stuff.

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He's eating really, really good
sushi.

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And I'm always jealous looking
at his page.

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But I asked him that one day.
I said, you know, how the hell

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do you not have some sort of a,
you know, a, a problem with

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either, you know, just heavy.
Metals or.

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00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,520
Or heavy metals.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,000
But you know, it's mostly the
big fish.

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It's it's tuna and like.
Partly it's the older fish,

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right?
Fish that live a lot longer in

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years or in time.
Because I read about it because

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00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,640
of feeding fish to my dogs.
I have two dogs.

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00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,280
Oh, right.
Yeah, we're getting really

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rock'n'roll here, Aren't we
talking about dog food?

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00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,520
But and that if they eat any
fish that's over 2 years old,

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like a a saltwater fish, then
there is a risk of them coming

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down with mercury poisoning.
So it's like something is

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absorbed when they're in the sea
that gets turned.

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00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,480
Into I I was told and I'm
probably wrong and no.

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I could be wrong for this.
What I the?

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00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,920
Producer was here.
She could look it up on, on Grok

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00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,720
or ChatGPT or something, but I
was told that it was the bigger

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fish because it comes from the
smaller fish and, and you know,

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the, the little bait fish and
stuff that they're eating.

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00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,400
And I don't know, I, I, I don't
remember the exact thing, but

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it's, it's a real thing.
I try not to eat too much tuna

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because of that.
And I'm OK with eating not too

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much tuna because I actually
salmon's better for you.

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But I'll tell you the problem
that I've seen over here in the

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US, and I don't know if it's the
same in Germany where you live,

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but you can't get freaking
salmon like you can get farm

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raised.
Salmon.

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00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,319
Oh, yeah, You can only get farm
salmon.

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00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:08,760
Yeah.
And then they call it, they'll

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still sell farm salmon.
They'll call it lime Court, but

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it's still farm salmon.
It's just somebody's going with

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a lot.
Lime pot in a little plastic

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swimming.
Pool.

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00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:16,960
Yeah.
Oh yeah.

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00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,520
Where they swim in each other's
feces and stuff, you know?

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00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:21,920
Yeah.
And they only get fed one

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00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,520
particular pellet.
So they just so the meat just

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00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,839
tastes like that pellet.
That's it.

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00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:27,319
Yeah.
Well, there's a particular

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longevity Dr. I follow who?
Who says, you know, eat what you

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00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,720
want, cheat when you want all of
those things no matter what.

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00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,880
Do not eat farm raised salmon.
Really that bad?

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00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,720
Don't eat farmed salmon.
It's it was like on his shit

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00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,440
list, like do not eat this no
matter what.

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00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,520
And it's hard because, like, you
literally have to sign up for a

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00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,000
subscription over here to a
company that ships you, you

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00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,320
know, fresh salmon.
I bet it's super expensive as

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00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,280
well, right?
It is more expensive, yeah.

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00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,960
I mean, it's not like 5 times as
much or anything, but it's

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00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,240
probably 50% more than than
farmed salmon.

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00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,040
But I mean, salmon's so good for
you, so.

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00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,680
I like salmon too, it's great.
Yeah, well, I didn't used to

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like it like I always, I called
it welfare fish, which is stupid

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because it's one of the more
expensive fishes now, but.

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00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,680
Well, I know what you mean.
It's kind of like a beginner's

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00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,200
step to fish.
It's like you guys have fish

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00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,800
fingers over there, like the
fish.

331
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,480
Yeah, yeah.
So I think when you get into

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00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,360
fish as a kid, it probably goes
fish fingers and then salmon,

333
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,680
right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe

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00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:36,680
something like that.
Yeah, yeah.

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00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,040
But it.
It's somehow salmon got a

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00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,480
reprieve and it's rised above
everything and it's, it's now

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00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,480
this fancy fish, you know, and
it's yeah, really expensive.

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00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,800
It's not as expensive as like,
you know, cod and or not COD,

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00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,560
but that's the one I'm thinking
of sea bass and stuff like that.

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00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,800
But but it's it's quite
expensive.

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00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,080
So anyways, yeah, this is quite
a rock'n'roll podcast we're on

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00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,560
right now.
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362
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,040
Welcome, Aaron.
Thank.

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00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:05,640
You.
Thank you.

364
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,800
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate.

365
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,840
I think we were actually
scheduled a couple years ago or

366
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,080
something, weren't we?
It was a while ago, yeah.

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00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,440
And then I, I wasn't feeling
great that day.

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00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,640
And then?
That's what it was.

369
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,280
Yeah.
And it then it kind of just then

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00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,200
Sarah just didn't ask me again.
Sarah who's.

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00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:25,400
So.
Yeah.

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00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,000
And then I think the start of
this year, she kind of, she went

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00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,400
through the trash or whatever,
found me again and then here I

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00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:31,880
am.
Yeah.

375
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,600
Well, I'm glad she found you
again because, you know, it's

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00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,440
funny because OMD, like I
always, I forget when I hear

377
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,120
OMD, that it was orchestral
maneuvers in the dark.

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00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,400
The stuff that I heard in like
after hours clubs when the rock

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00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,360
and roll bar closed in Canada
when I was, you know, in my late

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00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:56,080
teens or early 20s.
And I didn't listen to that kind

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00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,640
of music.
I had long hair and I was a

382
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,280
rock'n'roll guy, but you go
chasing girls into an after

383
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,760
hours club or something and
you're like, what's this, you

384
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,920
know, weird head boppy stuff,
you know?

385
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,520
And OMD was big in that circle,
so.

386
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,080
It's funny how the OMD thing we
taught stateside quite a lot and

387
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,640
definitely a different vibe over
there.

388
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,640
It does have more like this
trendy underground vibe here is

389
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,240
like where I how I view it here
is just like straight down the

390
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,000
line pop, right?
Yeah, it's just straight down

391
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,320
the line cheesy 80's pop for me.
Yeah.

392
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,680
But you go over there and then
they're all about, you know,

393
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,720
he's played in like underground.
It still is in in these like

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00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:40,320
kind of half semi gothic vibe.
You know, this these kind of

395
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,920
clubs, they still play really
the early sing electricity and

396
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,560
stuff like that and they go mad
for it.

397
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,120
Yeah.
And we do some big shows in

398
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,760
America, which is impressive for
a band from the from the UK who.

399
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,080
Well, you know, I think a lot of
it is, is, you know, guys my age

400
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,800
or women my age who, who, you
know, sort of grew up on it and

401
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,360
remember their first, you know,
shag in the back of a car or

402
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:06,760
their first dance somewhere or
their first whatever.

403
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,560
And you know, it was Duran Duran
playing in the background or OMD

404
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,240
playing in the background or
whatever.

405
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,920
And, you know, and now they have
money and, and they can travel

406
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,160
around and go see the bands they
love and stuff.

407
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:21,960
So it's nostalgia I think a
little bit.

408
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,440
But you're saying there's like a
younger underground?

409
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,400
Yeah, definitely.
It's bizarre.

410
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,200
The demographic over there is
like there are the older crowd,

411
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,120
but also the the song that they
did that was on the soundtrack

412
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:35,520
to a movie called Pretty in
Pink.

413
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,000
There, that song is called If
You Leave is still played

414
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,200
apparently at every high school
prom for some reason.

415
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,880
It's just like the high school
prom song.

416
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,080
So I guess couples even who
maybe went to that school from

417
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,520
five years ago, if they're still
together, come and see OMD to

418
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,880
dance to that song again.
Maybe.

419
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,560
Maybe that's what it.
Is that's interesting.

420
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,120
It makes no sense to me.
So the the shows that you do

421
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:03,240
with OMD over here, are they
younger audiences then or?

422
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,040
Yeah, I would say this like I
said this, there's all ranges.

423
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,400
There are, these are the young
ones, that's the the my age

424
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,680
ones.
And then there's the, the

425
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,000
original, shall I say.
So I'll put it like that.

426
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,240
So there's all, there's all
ages.

427
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,360
Yeah, it's, it's quite
interesting.

428
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,560
One thing I'll tell you about
the, the younger generation

429
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,240
right now is that they seem
really curious about our music

430
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,480
or my music, you know, from my
generation, like, you know, the

431
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,040
Stones and, and Pink Floyd and
you know, that kind of stuff.

432
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,200
Because I remember going and
seeing Pink Floyd.

433
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,600
Now, this was a long time ago
now.

434
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,920
This was probably 20 years ago
or something.

435
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,680
They played in a stadium here in
South Florida and I was sitting

436
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,360
watching the show and there were
these like 4 young girls and

437
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,760
four young guys in front of me.
They couldn't have been more

438
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,960
than 21 or 22 years old.
And they knew like every word to

439
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,600
like, not just, you know, brick
on the wall, but like wish you

440
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,440
were here and some of the more
obscure songs and stuff.

441
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,200
They knew every word and I was
like, I like these kids, you

442
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,160
know?
That's cool.

443
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,080
See, I would put that down to
them legalizing pot in most

444
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,000
places over there.
That's probably true.

445
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,760
Yeah, that's probably, I mean.
Or Joe Rogan talking about LSD.

446
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,560
Yeah, maybe, yeah.
Because that is, I think even

447
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,880
when I was still a kid and you
know, when you're 161718, you

448
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,920
try to pot.
You do want to put on a Pink

449
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,520
Floyd record, don't you?
For me, for me, it was the live

450
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,600
album Pulse, and I still listen
to that this day.

451
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,800
I don't smoke weed anymore.
It's got nothing to do that.

452
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,160
But that's a great album.
And I I was interested in Pink

453
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,640
Floyd too.
I think there's a certain

454
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,520
caliber of bands that kind of
remain, don't they?

455
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,080
I guess that's what that's the
reason that these bands like

456
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,400
ACDC and Springsteen and all
that are still doing stadiums.

457
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:46,520
Yeah.
When?

458
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:47,080
Yeah.
When?

459
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,440
So true.
Will Taylor Swift still be doing

460
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,720
stadiums in 30 years?
Maybe.

461
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,280
But I don't know.
Yeah, it's, it's hard to

462
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,360
believe, but who knows?
You know, like I've always, you

463
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:01,440
know, for the last 20 years I've
been saying, you know, 20 years

464
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,800
from now, what does classic
music look like?

465
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:09,080
You know, and it's, it's really
not going to be, you know, some

466
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,000
of the stuff that we're
listening to today.

467
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,160
Like I, I think most of the
classic music is still going to

468
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,760
be the Stones and Led Zeppelin
and The Who and, you know, The

469
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,560
Beatles and whatever, right?
Like it's going to be the same

470
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,120
stuff that we call classic rock,
so.

471
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,480
But wouldn't it be another
genre?

472
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,640
That's I think this because all
right, was new wave called new

473
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,280
wave when the new wave was
happening or was it was it

474
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,040
called just pop?
It was no.

475
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,960
It was, yeah.
It was called New Wave because.

476
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,280
For an example.
Type of pop, yeah.

477
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,440
Right.
So what?

478
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,880
What do we have names for this
kind of pop that we have now or

479
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,000
not?
I don't keep up on this.

480
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,080
I don't, because I don't shite
the hope.

481
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,760
Yeah, Well, yeah, I don't
pigeonhole this, but because

482
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,000
pop's such a generic town, we
used to, as a joke in school,

483
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,960
say that Once Upon a time
Beethoven was probably called

484
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
pop music, which because pop
just means popular, you know?

485
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,680
But yeah.
The one I struggle with is all

486
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:09,800
the electronic music because
there's like electronic house

487
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,040
and, and drum and bass and this
and that and this and that and

488
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,560
the all these different names
and I have no idea of the

489
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,600
difference.
I just call it all electronic

490
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,800
or, or EDM music.
But I'm totally wrong, you know?

491
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,200
But I can't keep up with all
those different names and.

492
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,240
But it was the same in like the
guitar.

493
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,360
I remember when people start
listen to emo and then post

494
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,760
someone and you know there's all
these names for the guitar

495
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,120
bands, isn't there?
Post emo, yeah, whatever.

496
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,360
I don't know what they call it
but it yeah it's strange and

497
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,760
makes sense to some people I
guess, but I've never searched

498
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,800
iTunes for a post Emo period
music.

499
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,320
Yeah, I don't know what any of
that stuff means.

500
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,360
Like no, me neither.
Do we need 8 billion different

501
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,800
genres of music?
You know, like when you go

502
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,760
scrolling down through, you
know, I'm on Apple Music, not

503
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,880
Spotify for the most part.
And, and I'll go scrolling down

504
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,720
through the genres and it's
like, what is all this stuff?

505
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,600
You know, there used to be rock,
pop and country, you know, and

506
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,760
jazz and Blues, but that was it.
You know, there was like 5

507
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,560
genres.
Now there's 50 and it just

508
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,680
doesn't make a lot of sense.
But I don't know.

509
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,880
I don't know, you know, like one
thing I do, I do love kids,

510
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,720
though, that who like my son is
21 now and he can he he knows

511
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,840
all the words to Bohemian
Rhapsody.

512
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,400
He knows all the words to like
all these, you know, 70s and 80s

513
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,440
songs because that's what he
grew up listening to in my.

514
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,480
Cars.
Or his mom's car or whatever.

515
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,840
Right?
So.

516
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,560
He's Yeah, I guess we all.
Did you?

517
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,160
Do your parents listen to music
when you were a kid?

518
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,120
Do you have?
Yeah.

519
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Your parents music's still in
your head.

520
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:53,880
Yeah, so my in my house we had,
you wouldn't recognize it

521
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,560
because you're younger than me,
but everyone had these like

522
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,840
pieces of furniture.
It was like a console that if

523
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,800
you opened the top of it, it had
a turntable, an 8 track.

524
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,680
And if if you were a little
fancier, it might have a

525
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:13,520
cassette player in it too.
But but my mom and my stepdad

526
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:19,880
always had either Elvis or you
know, some of the old sort of

527
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,360
crossover like in between
country and rock, like Roy

528
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:26,840
Orbison and stuff like that.
But it was almost always Elvis,

529
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,720
Conway Twitty, some of the old
country music and stuff.

530
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,400
And it was just non-stop.
Like there was always music in

531
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,120
my house.
And it's really what inspired me

532
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,800
to become a musician so early.
I started playing or noodling

533
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800
with guitar when I was probably
7 or 8 years old.

534
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,520
And then by the time I was 12, I
was I was a singer in a band and

535
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,840
it was really just because
that's how I was brought up.

536
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,200
I was brought up around music
constantly so.

537
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,160
Yeah, it's very similar really
to me.

538
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,480
My dad was a huge massively
intermediate.

539
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,040
He still is.
And he was very into rock.

540
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:06,440
And he was Zeppelin, actually.
Blue Oyster, Colton, Rory

541
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,480
Gallagher saw the Blues stuff.
And I was, yeah, I just picked

542
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,000
up a guitar when I was young.
I started playing.

543
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,960
Oh, that's cool.
Boom Boom by John Lee Hooker was

544
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,080
the first thing I learned in
guitar.

545
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,600
Really.
And it still influences what I

546
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,120
listen to now.
I still love Blues.

547
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,640
I listen to Blues all the time.
Yeah.

548
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,600
I think it's because it's the
first kind of expressive music I

549
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,120
ever took in or, and kind of
first music ever kind of

550
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,240
digested when I was a kid.
It was, it was simple, you know,

551
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,840
12 bar shuffle or whatever is a
simple kind of groove that a

552
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,240
child can understand to get
with.

553
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,880
But isn't Blues an American
thing?

554
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,200
Like.
So it is.

555
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,880
It is really.
Common in in Great Britain.

556
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,600
There's just an American thing.
Yeah, like all Great American

557
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,000
things, I'm great.
But like all Great American

558
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,200
things and all great British
things, they kind of, they came

559
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,080
across the pond and changed and
changed slightly, didn't they?

560
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,880
You know, he started off and
then, but then Clapton was

561
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,440
British, obviously in Clapton
started playing the Blues, Yeah.

562
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,120
And then it became, then it
became Thin Lizzy and everything

563
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,880
that, you know, it's all, it's
all Blues based.

564
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,040
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's funny because,

565
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,880
you know, I've read a lot about
The Beatles and stuff, so, you

566
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,560
know, I was sort of too young to
really be into The Beatles when

567
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,240
they got huge.
That's a shame.

568
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,240
But and a little too young for
Elvis too.

569
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,600
So I I never really was a huge
Beatles fan when I was a kid.

570
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,400
Like I liked Revolution because
it was a little heavier and

571
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:32,760
stuff like.
That, but I just get the time.

572
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,600
You heard a distorted guitar
probably, right?

573
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,960
Oh.
Yeah, it was amazing.

574
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,000
But you know, really Led
Zeppelin and Black Sabbath and

575
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,000
the heavier stuff really got me
when I was when I was young.

576
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,440
I loved it all.
Thin Lizzy.

577
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,400
And then, of course, KISS in the
United States got big.

578
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,840
And so, but yeah, like I, I
don't think I really ever got

579
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,280
into Blues until later.
Probably like in my late teens

580
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,520
is when I really had an
appreciation for Blues,

581
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,360
especially when I became a
musician and, you know, realized

582
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,960
that there was something there,
you know, but.

583
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,360
I grew up in the north of
England and they're right in the

584
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,720
Time Oasis.
We're becoming huge for the

585
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,920
first time.
Yeah, yeah, they're.

586
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,840
Pretty big now.
There was a big kind of turn the

587
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,120
Clocks back as they kept going
on about this band called The

588
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,320
Beatles, which obviously
everybody had heard about.

589
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,760
But every interview you watch
from Oasis, even when they were

590
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,320
young arrogant kids, they always
talked about The Beatles or

591
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,400
fucking Beatles, great, blah
blah.

592
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,720
So, and it made a lot of
generation people of my age turn

593
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,800
the clocks back and start
listening to The Beatles.

594
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,280
Oh yeah.
And and I will always be forever

595
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,680
grateful for for that because.
And I would start listening to

596
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,160
The Beatles because they sounded
like Oasis, right.

597
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,120
Yeah.
And I really appreciate bands

598
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,840
that do that, that say hey,
yeah, hey, guys, you know, hey,

599
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,920
kids, it's great that you're
into US, but listen to this, man

600
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,480
because this is what we were
listening to.

601
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,680
You know, I think it's really a
place doesn't really happen to

602
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,480
music anymore, does it?
The people go, hey.

603
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,960
Oh, yeah.
I love that you love my music,

604
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,360
but my music is inspired by
these people who came 20 years

605
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,640
before.
Have you ever heard of Mel

606
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,360
Evans?
I don't think so.

607
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,040
So he was the original roadie
for The Beatles.

608
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,760
And if you want to get a really
great book, get this book.

609
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,080
It's called Hang.
On a second I'll.

610
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,200
Tell you what it's called.
It's a fantastic book.

611
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,440
I I did it on audio book, but
it's called living The Beatles

612
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,800
legend, The Untold story of Mal
Evans.

613
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,520
So he was, he was the original,
I don't know whether he was

614
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,440
called a road manager or
assistant or whatever he was,

615
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,640
but he was very close to The
Beatles.

616
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,240
He, you know, spent every moment
with them, ran around and did

617
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,320
errands for them, you know,
drove them back and forth around

618
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,760
the UK for a long time.
And he had taken a lot of notes

619
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,040
and, and Diaries and stuff like
that.

620
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,080
And when he died many years
later, like just a few years

621
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,480
ago, his family basically
decided to package together all

622
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,040
of these Diaries and sell them
to a publisher and get a book

623
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,840
created from it.
And it's just a friggin awesome

624
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,560
book.
Sounds really, really a great

625
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,280
book.
Really a great book.

626
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,160
You know, just even listening
from a roadie standpoint to, you

627
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,720
know, the stuff that they had to
do back then just to make shit

628
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,600
work, you know?
It's always, I'm actually a

629
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,880
member of this coincide all that
stuff that like PA of the Day or

630
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,160
whatever it's called on
Facebook.

631
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,880
You know, it's all about old PA
systems.

632
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,480
And I started out in an age of
analogue in the 2000, I started

633
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,600
doing audio.
So yeah, and analogue was still

634
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,440
there talking about it wasn't
the dark age or anything, but

635
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,440
analogue was still around.
I still learned.

636
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,800
So anyway, people post pictures
of these old concerts and then

637
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,240
somebody posted a picture of The
Beatles at Shea Stadium, right?

638
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,760
And there's like 5 speakers, you
know, that's a little.

639
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,120
Columns, yeah, I mean.
It's like what?

640
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:08,679
And you just think, wow, like,
you know, was there any thought

641
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:10,560
that went into that?
Exactly.

642
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,840
Yeah.
At like 120 DB two, yeah.

643
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,679
I know I have met people who saw
The Beatles back then and tell

644
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,960
me like I couldn't hear a thing.
Nothing, nothing.

645
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,400
You couldn't hear anything.
They couldn't hear themselves.

646
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,719
I mean, it was just like mayhem,
completely ridiculous.

647
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,760
Yeah, but back then, I mean,
nobody played stadiums, so you

648
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,400
know, No, why would you have a
sound system for stadiums when

649
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,440
nobody ever played in one?
They didn't even have

650
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,600
monitoring.
They didn't have monitoring back

651
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,920
then, did they?
I was, there was a, It's a Ringo

652
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,760
Starr interview that I was
watching quite recently.

653
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,360
AC was saying, well, The Beatles
never played live much because

654
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,280
we couldn't hear ourselves.
Let's say that that was his.

655
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,440
It was, it was like, it was no
fun.

656
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,000
All we could do was everybody
else screaming.

657
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,639
We couldn't even hear ourselves
playing.

658
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,120
That's why we never did that
many gigs.

659
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:57,880
And I'm sure, I'm not sure
that's the exact reason why, You

660
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,320
know, they did an awful lot of
recording in the in the nine

661
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,880
years they were together,
whether he would have had times

662
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,080
at all.
But it was just interesting to

663
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,800
hear his take on it.
This episode is brought to you

664
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,120
today by ETC Rigging.
For 50 years, ETC has made a

665
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666
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You can find ETC products in
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667
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668
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TV studios and convention

669
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,600
centers, you name it.
They have all trusted ETC to

670
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,520
make their spaces beautiful and
safe.

671
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,360
Many of these spaces include
rigging systems to keep them

672
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,440
running smoothly and safely.
Fortunately, ETC Rigging offers

673
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,160
a range of hoists and controls
to accommodate the unique needs

674
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,840
of various production spaces and
budgets.

675
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,320
Etcs motorized hoists and hoist
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676
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,520
technology including stage
curtains, lighting equipment,

677
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,360
backdrops, projection screens
and more.

678
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,680
And the recent addition of
Prodigy Balance, a new

679
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,560
counterweight rigging solution
for loads up to 1200 lbs, brings

680
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,680
more options to venues looking
for safe, user friendly rigging.

681
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,640
If you need backstage rigging
that is easy to learn and safe

682
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,080
for students and volunteers to
use, Prodigy Balance could be

683
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,840
the answer.
ETC is known for its customer

684
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:32,160
support and 24/7 365
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685
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,000
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686
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,600
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Because ETC has become 100%

687
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,760
employee owned, each person
building the rigging systems,

688
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developing the control software
and answering support calls is

689
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,640
actually an owner at ETC.
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690
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691
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692
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the past 50 years, and they plan
to deliver more in the next 50.

693
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,320
For the latest ETC products and
installation news, visit

694
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,960
etcconnect.com.
But you know what I miss and,

695
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,160
and you know, I was, I was part
of this.

696
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,200
Like I'm old enough to where I
was part of this.

697
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,400
And, and when, when we recorded
something or even playing live,

698
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,800
when you wanted certain sounds,
you had to get real creative.

699
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,160
You know, it's like when I was a
kid, if I wanted my bike to

700
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,560
sound like a motorcycle, I had
to go get playing cards and A

701
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,840
and a clothespin and, and, you
know, put him on the spokes and

702
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,400
it would go yeah, we.
Used to do it with a plastic

703
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,920
drinks bottle.
We used to cut it in half and

704
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,160
shove it between the tire and
the frame.

705
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,720
Luxury.
You know, when I was a kid, we

706
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:46,960
didn't have plastic drink.
Bottle, no glass, and the world

707
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,320
was a better place, right?
Yeah.

708
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,000
That wouldn't have worked out so
well.

709
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,520
But you know, now, like you go
into a studio and you have

710
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,920
electronics to do anything you
want.

711
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,920
But when you read articles from
like Jimmy Page and, and you

712
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,160
know, Pete Townsend and all of
these old school, you know, Jimi

713
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,400
Hendrix, whoever the way that
they had to come up with their

714
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,600
sound, the things they had to do
to these amplifiers or to the

715
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,760
guitars or to whatever.
Like they didn't just have a

716
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,040
rack of effects pedals and a
rack of digital effects and

717
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,520
modeling, modeling amplifiers
and stuff like that.

718
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,360
Like we're very spoiled today.
We can make any sound we want

719
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,880
with.
But we just keep making the same

720
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,280
ones it seems like.
It is true, isn't it?

721
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,880
Like a good guitar sound is a
good guitar sound.

722
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:33,560
Period.
You know?

723
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,360
Yeah.
A chord, a guitar and a freaking

724
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,200
100 Watt Marshall amp and it
sounds pretty damn good.

725
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,480
Yeah, you know, you can't beat
it really so.

726
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,920
But you know, like you said, I
was, I was doing sound back when

727
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,920
it was.
So that's when I stopped.

728
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,880
Like, I never was a sound guy,
but I could walk up to a old

729
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,840
sound craft 24 channel analog
console and make a kick drum

730
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,000
sound pretty good, make a snare
sound pretty good with a gate on

731
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,720
it, you know, and, and I could
make it sound decent, right?

732
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,080
But when consoles got bigger and
then when all this digital stuff

733
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,480
started happening, I, I don't
even know how to turn a console

734
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,360
on anymore, let alone, you know,
like there's no big effects rack

735
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,720
and you know, everything's in
plug insurance and stuff.

736
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:26,760
I don't get it.
I just don't understand it at

737
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,520
all.
No, I, I don't get.

738
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,640
And here's the thing, I ended.
So I grew up with analog, right?

739
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,640
And then all of a sudden, I
obviously adopted digital very

740
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,200
quickly because I had to.
Yeah.

741
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,760
That I wasn't by this point, I
was just like lower league kind

742
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,640
of working for an audio company.
And I would always be the guy

743
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,440
stood behind the engineer, you
know, And at some point, all

744
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,840
these engineers at the time, and
I know who you are and I've

745
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,480
never asked you this actually.
But why did you change from like

746
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,080
a, let's say a Harrison or Midas
to a flipping profile to a, to

747
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,600
a, to what's considered today to
be a bad sound in digital

748
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,080
console, which is the first one
to work?

749
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,560
Why the hell did you change?
Yeah, why did you do?

750
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,560
That to us, I've never asked
them.

751
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,200
I never had the boys to ask them
no, but I, I should because

752
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,800
that's a part and of course it's
all down to money, isn't it?

753
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,280
It's like the the production
manager told me we can only have

754
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,960
half a truck for for front of
house and we used to.

755
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,720
Have a full part of it.
It's.

756
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:26,120
Money all over the place, like
it's the whole sort of economy

757
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,000
ecosystem around that show you
gotta use this sound company, so

758
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,320
it's whatever they've got.
Right.

759
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,000
Sure.
Yeah, Yeah.

760
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,520
Or I mean, but it's just so
different than it was back then.

761
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,360
Like, you know, if you'll
believe this.

762
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,480
So my first band, well, my very
first band, we played with

763
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,640
similar columns to what The
Beatles used.

764
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,640
I remember it was a Sun Sun PA
system and they were these

765
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,360
columns that had like, I think
they had four or 512 inch

766
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,080
speakers and maybe a couple of
eights and then a horn at the

767
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,280
top.
And but they were columns.

768
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,120
They were like 6 foot tall
columns and we had those and

769
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:09,480
then my next band that got much
more professional, we had JBLW

770
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,760
bins.
I don't know even know if you

771
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,080
know what that.
I know our W bins.

772
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,920
Yeah.
So we had W bins with I think

773
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,040
they had a single 18 in them, I
don't remember exactly.

774
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,600
And that was cool, you know, and
then like some sort of, I think

775
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,080
my first time having a big PA,
we had JBL 45 sixties for mid

776
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,200
range, which are the worst
sounding thing you've ever heard

777
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,080
in your life.
And then like Altec Lansing

778
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,080
horns on top.
And then along came Martin with

779
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,880
the Phyllis shave.
And so then we had these 15 inch

780
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,440
Martin bins on the bottom and
then the Phyllis shave mids and

781
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,000
and horns and that was so
cutting edge.

782
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,680
And you know, now with Linery
and stuff, it's also different.

783
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,120
Yeah, yeah.
I grew up with the, I work for a

784
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,840
small PA company of this little
point source.

785
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,920
They had lots of point source
systems, but they were huge and

786
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,280
heavy, right.
And I swear I've got, I'm only

787
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,560
in my late, very late 30s now
and I've got back problems

788
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,280
already.
And I swear it's from all that.

789
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,080
Yeah, probably.
All that stuff, you know, I

790
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,680
wasn't even grown yet.
I was still 16 and we're stuck

791
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,360
in these.
Yeah, these Squeaker sisters

792
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,360
have weighed hundreds of
hundreds of kilos.

793
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,320
But I enjoyed it and I loved it,
and I learned a lot doing that.

794
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,680
And that well come to think of
it, like so not only, you know,

795
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,640
did we load our own gear because
we had one roadie who who did

796
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,160
sound and lights.
So we had to carry stuff into

797
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,080
the venue and stuff, but in our
bus.

798
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,920
So we travelled one of my bands,
we travelled in a converted

799
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,640
school bus where the front half
was sort of passenger seats and

800
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,200
the back half was all of our
gear.

801
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,160
And because I was usually last
to claim a row of seats to sleep

802
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,720
on, I'd go sleep on speakers,
you know, and, and so I'd just

803
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,720
sleep on the Subs or whatever.
And that was my ride.

804
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:05,000
And you know, that could explain
some back problems.

805
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,560
Yeah, very much so, yeah.
I can still fall asleep anywhere

806
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,600
though, I think.
Can you still fall asleep

807
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,840
anywhere?
Is that a trait we learned?

808
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,240
No.
Maybe I'll lose that trait.

809
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:18,480
I used to be able to, but you
know, airplanes always kind of

810
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,560
escaped me.
You know, like I on an airplane,

811
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,960
obviously, if you have a lay
down seat, you know, I'm good

812
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,960
with that.
I can sleep, you know, no

813
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,120
problem at all.
I, I take some melatonin and a

814
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,200
little bit of wine and I'm, I'm
well out of, you know, gone

815
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,960
until they wake me up.
We're landing, Sir, you got to

816
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,880
get off the damn plane.
But sitting up right in a seat,

817
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,640
I you know, I'll nod off for 30
seconds here and there, but

818
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,720
that's about it.
Yeah, I'm, I'm not great at

819
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:49,080
sleeping sitting up anymore
actually, but I used to be able

820
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,640
to fall asleep anywhere.
It was like the trait of a of

821
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,440
being a young kid who drove the
van, set the PA up, tore it down

822
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,800
and drove to the next place, you
know, and then slept in the van.

823
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,640
I think that's what it was.
Me too.

824
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,360
Yeah, I used to when I was
young.

825
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,200
I used to be able to do that,
but now I'm much pickier.

826
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,040
Like, I can't even sleep on the
wrong pillow or something

827
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,040
anymore.
You know, It's like, what's that

828
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,840
sound?
I'm breathing.

829
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,920
Oh, OK.
We'll keep breathe quieter.

830
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:21,200
You know, my son is funny.
My son, he's 6/4 or 6/5 now and

831
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,000
he can't lay back in a in a
seat, you know, even if he's in,

832
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,200
you know, the regular first
class seats on a plane, not the

833
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,560
lay down ones, but like in a
domestic flight first class, he

834
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,440
can't, he can't put the seat
back and go to sleep.

835
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,120
He has to lean forward onto the
tray and put his head on his

836
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,440
arms on the on the tray in front
of him.

837
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,120
I watch him and it's the most
uncomfortable thing I've ever

838
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,400
seen in my life.
And he can only do it for like

839
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,520
10-15 minutes.
So he'll do an 8 hour flight and

840
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:55,360
get, you know, 20 minutes of
sleep and it's crazy I feel.

841
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,640
That sucks kid, but that sucks.
You better figure it out, you

842
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,240
know, cuz you're gonna probably
be flying a lot in your life so.

843
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:04,240
Hey and I'm should be sure every
plan of things aren't gonna get

844
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:05,920
any bigger.
That's put it that way.

845
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,040
Yeah, yeah.
So let's go back a little bit

846
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,520
here.
So you're you're certainly not

847
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,920
geezerly age, you know, usually
so.

848
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:20,040
Geezer, Eric Loader.
Eric Loader, who's a friend of

849
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,040
mine who runs Elation Lighting,
he said that a geezer is at 50.

850
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,520
You're officially a geezer at
50.

851
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,200
Before 50, you're not a geezer
yet.

852
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,760
So interesting.
We'll call you a special guest

853
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,120
on Geezers.
Of geezers, thank you.

854
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,680
Thank you, but I have a friend
from Birmingham who's of age he

855
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,960
used to torment his simply red.
Actually, I don't know if simply

856
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,040
read everything for you guys,
but.

857
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:44,320
Yeah, of course.
And he is from Birmingham and he

858
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,840
calls everybody Gouza, All
right, Geezer.

859
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,880
And he, he does call me geezer.
I don't know whether that gives

860
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,520
any kind of credit to the name,
but well.

861
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,560
I think.
Geezer, in his world, I'm you.

862
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,800
Know it's just like saying mate,
hello mate.

863
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,960
Well, I'll happily take being
young.

864
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,680
I'm all right with that.
Yeah, Yeah.

865
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,280
Well, you're definitely young.
Said from an old person though,

866
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,400
so somebody will call you old.
Oh, lots of people do call me on

867
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,400
the things thing happens in
touring where you you're the

868
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,440
youngest guy for what seems like
eternity and then you're never

869
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:13,680
the middle guy.
You're all of a sudden just the

870
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,000
oldest guy.
I swear that's the thing that

871
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:17,360
happens.
And it's already starting to

872
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,800
happen to me on some tours.
I was on a hip hop tour last

873
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,800
year and I was the oldest guy on
the bus.

874
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,000
I was like, yeah, And it only
felt like 6 months before I was

875
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,440
the youngest guy on the bus, you
know?

876
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,440
So when you walk into a room, do
they go?

877
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:32,840
What?
No.

878
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,120
Like you're the police.
Sadly not, no.

879
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,000
They carry on talking nonsense.
But yeah, yeah, that's what we

880
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,400
all do, right?
You know, other than being in a

881
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,280
band, I've never actually lived
on a tour bus with a bunch of

882
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,200
dudes.
And so I, I, it's the thing that

883
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,920
always shocks me.
Like, I'm like, you're going out

884
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,560
on tour, so you just meet the
people, and then you're with

885
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,120
seven or eight of them on a bus,
and you've got to live on that

886
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,080
bus for the next four months.
Like, really?

887
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,480
And they're like, yeah, why?
You know, And I'm thinking, wow,

888
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,880
I couldn't do.
That it's quite daunting, even.

889
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,880
Share a hotel room with.
I This is a funny thing.

890
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,080
I can't share a hotel.
Most people you'll meet in our

891
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,360
industry cannot share a hotel
room.

892
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,920
But they can sleep in theory,
you know, 8 inches away from

893
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,880
somebody else because they have
to do that every night.

894
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,000
Yeah.
As it's funny, as I get older,

895
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,800
I, I don't like, you know, what
comes along with me in a lot of

896
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,680
new people and sharing life
together for a number of months

897
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,400
is for me is this feeling.
I feel like you have to fit in

898
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:35,800
with people.
And there's always been the

899
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,200
awkward kind of first few days
of everybody getting to know

900
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,800
each other and you don't want to
look like you're an asshole for

901
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,320
those.
And I hate that whole period.

902
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,840
You know what I mean?
Nowadays, I just think I wish

903
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,040
the asshole would be an asshole.
Just so we know, you know?

904
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,960
Yeah, yeah, we'll hide it.
We're going to find out sooner

905
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,240
or later.
Right, right.

906
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,560
But like they say, the other
golden rule of buses, there's

907
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,400
always one hassle.
If you don't know who it is,

908
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,480
then it's you, right?
Interesting.

909
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,120
Yeah, yeah, because there's
always the.

910
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,000
Rule was was don't shit on the
bus.

911
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,120
Well, that went out the window.
Oh really, people?

912
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,160
Do know on the bus now, Well, on
all these buses they do.

913
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,200
I'm not crew buses.
I don't.

914
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,920
I've never done that yeah, I
let's hear lots of old school

915
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,880
stories about people having to
do it in a in a, in a bin liner,

916
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,680
right.
The line the the toilet with a

917
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,160
bin liner and then.
Oh my God, and.

918
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,960
Then do it in the in the bin
liner.

919
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,640
And then sorry, that's, yeah,
I've never done that either.

920
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,320
I'm, I'm comfortable enough to
go to the driver and say, hey,

921
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,440
if you don't want to miss, let's
stop, you know?

922
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,000
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Yeah.

923
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,840
So how did you get started in
this crazy world that we're in?

924
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,240
I got started out in this
industry by loving music.

925
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,320
And originally as I was at
school, I was in like the school

926
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,960
brass band.
I played the drums back then and

927
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,920
I didn't play a process from I
played the drums.

928
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,000
Yeah.
And from playing the drums, came

929
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,280
across the school concert and
then ended up meeting a guy who

930
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,200
worked for the local PA company,
audio company.

931
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,960
But also, you know, at the same
time that was happening, my dad

932
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,600
worked for the Parks Department
and was organizing kind of small

933
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,280
local band festivals in the
parks.

934
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,560
And he was using the same audio
company.

935
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,040
So there was like a connection
of, oh, you're so and so son.

936
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,320
Oh, yeah.
You're the guy that talks to

937
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:31,400
leverage, too.
Yeah.

938
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:32,400
Leverage.
Right.

939
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:33,920
Right.
Maybe still want to in

940
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,680
hindsight.
City work.

941
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,160
Yeah, you still want to mix
those crap local bands.

942
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,720
So I ended up doing work
experience placement from

943
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:45,560
school.
They could either send you

944
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:50,160
somewhere random, you know, or
you could write the name of a

945
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,200
business and they would contact
the business and say, you know,

946
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,360
do you want this kid from work
experience placement for two

947
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,880
weeks or not?
They said yes.

948
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,000
I ended up getting to know what
happens in a PA company.

949
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,240
It's mostly sitting around the
UK.

950
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:06,880
It's mostly sitting around
drinking cups of tea, moaning

951
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,440
about the state of the world and
painting speaker cabinets.

952
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:12,440
And I thought, I can get with
this.

953
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,120
This is my kind of vibe.
I like tea.

954
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,400
So here you are, sitting around
20 years later doing the same

955
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:18,040
thing.
Right.

956
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker cabinets and drinking
tea.

957
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:24,440
Pretty much.
And then it's a classic story of

958
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,280
like, you know, I got to learn
everything.

959
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,240
I still be on everyone.
I was the guy that could plug

960
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:29,960
things in.
They would let me plug things in

961
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,040
for a bit and, you know, and
then I kept, I kept hanging

962
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,960
around with this company out.
Once I'd done my placement there

963
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,040
from school, it was an open door
of like, hey, if you're ever

964
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,720
passing by, coming for a brew,
right, a cup of tea.

965
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,240
So that turned into me just
hanging out there all the time.

966
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,440
Basically.
You were hooked.

967
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:51,920
I was hooked.
Yeah.

968
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,040
Were you?
Hooked on the technology or the

969
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,640
environment or?
I was hooked on both.

970
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,040
I would say in hindsight, both.
I love to be honest.

971
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,920
Here's the thing, I love what
physical air movement of large

972
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,840
speakers did to your body.
You know, like it was the first

973
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,200
time I'd ever actually felt
music, not just heard it.

974
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,080
And that that was something that
used to happen at concerts.

975
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,640
Maybe it still happens now and
we're immune to it.

976
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,280
I don't know.
I remember when I used to go to

977
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,720
a concert and the drummer used
to hit the the bass drum of the

978
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,120
kick drum.
You used to feel it in your body

979
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,840
and that was the only place was
a live concert you could get

980
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,960
that feeling.
Yeah, well, I'll tell you what.

981
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,720
I went and saw Metallica last
summer in stadium in Canada,

982
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:36,400
near my I have a house in Canada
where I go in the summer and

983
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,800
they've got all of that Meyer
stuff and just, I have no idea

984
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,840
the ungodly number of Subs that
are under that stage.

985
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,560
But I was standing right in
front of them and I feel like I

986
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,640
moved.
Every time you kick the kick

987
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:53,360
down, I was going backwards like
this, You know, It was, it was,

988
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,800
it was a feeling you.
Know yeah, so I got into that

989
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:02,520
and I remember my dad took me to
see ACDC when I was I must have

990
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,040
been about 15 or 16.
It was at the IT was the first

991
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,600
concert ever saw in Manchester
Arena, which was new back then

992
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,960
anyway.
And it was ACDC.

993
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,920
And I remember they did the line
check through the PA.

994
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,640
So I think it was Slashes Snake
Pit supported them and then they

995
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,120
they came on and they do.
We were doing the line chain.

996
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:23,000
The drum tech hit the kick drum.
And I said I might have even

997
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,440
said out loud.
I definitely said in my head if

998
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,880
I can't play the drums, I want
to make them sound like that.

999
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,320
And that that was there, and I
remember that vividly.

1000
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,760
That's so cool.
That's great.

1001
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,480
And I guess I kind of did,
although I went down more of a

1002
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,040
monitor engineer path.
Sorry, that's.

1003
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:41,440
Was that?
Why was that?

1004
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,080
Was that because it was easier
or?

1005
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,000
No, it was.
It was.

1006
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,640
I mean easier to get a gig.
It was easy to get a gig because

1007
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,520
everybody wanted to be the front
of house guy, right, right, of

1008
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,280
course.
So this day I still call the

1009
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,840
front of house the golden end of
the multi core and the and the

1010
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,440
monitor side, the brown end.
I still I still call that to

1011
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,960
this day because that's funny.
In reality, you know, they're

1012
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:05,480
both as easy or as difficult as
the artist and and everything

1013
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,000
around him makes it.
But it was easy to get him on a

1014
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:13,200
gig because everybody wanted to
move to front of house and you

1015
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,520
learn, I found you learn more at
monitor and you know, you're

1016
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,240
with the artist.
You see in real time how things

1017
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,560
are happening.
You know, from a from the side

1018
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,000
of the stage, you can see what
happens when the artist doesn't

1019
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,040
sing to it into the microphone.
You can hear it in the sense in

1020
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:30,280
front of house you, you might
not develop that that level of

1021
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,680
learning or why something is
happening the way it is as you

1022
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,480
do from being close to.
Well, I've always wondered,

1023
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,320
like, for me, being a monitor
engineer would probably in many

1024
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:46,240
ways be harder because your
critic is the band versus your

1025
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,440
critic being a bunch of, you
know, drunken, stoned people in

1026
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,000
the audience.
They're going to complain no

1027
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,960
matter what.
But the band is who you really

1028
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,880
need to impress.
And if the monitors are bad, you

1029
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,640
know you're going to know about.
It Sure, Yeah.

1030
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,080
As a monitor engineer, of course
I would happily continue driving

1031
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,640
this point home with you Yeah.
In reality, you know when the

1032
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,640
singer's mom goes out from maybe
being a being in front of house

1033
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,160
guy is harder when the singer's
mum stood next to you maybe,

1034
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,440
but.
Well, yeah.

1035
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,960
I like the connection with the
band.

1036
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,040
I like the connection with the
band I like, and ultimately

1037
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,440
there's this romantic thing
about I've always liked to make

1038
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,040
people happy.
I think everybody has this

1039
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,720
certain thing inside and wants
to make people happy and wants

1040
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:32,040
to bring people.
I like to bring people into a

1041
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:36,320
moment where they can, you know,
you can see the whole room go up

1042
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,840
when there's a vibe.
It's like, yeah, when I used to

1043
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,560
jam with friends, you get into
this click, this moment of and

1044
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,320
you all do the same thing at the
same time musically, you know,

1045
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,360
this euphoric feeling.
The same thing can happen, I

1046
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,600
think, in a, in a room full of
people with the band playing,

1047
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,080
you know, and.
You know, it's funny, I I have a

1048
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,680
nephew in Canada.
His name is Adam and he is a

1049
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,960
monitor engineer who has been
doing monitors for, I don't

1050
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,920
know, six or seven years now.
And every time I talk to him,

1051
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,440
I'm like, Adam, I can probably
get you into a bigger sound

1052
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,800
company on a tour because he
does local gigs, festivals and

1053
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,080
things like that.
I can get you on a tour.

1054
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:16,800
You can work your way up to
front of house.

1055
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,840
And he's like, no, I, I love
being a monitor engineer.

1056
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,720
And I said why?
And he said, because I feel like

1057
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:24,520
I'm on stage, like I'm, I'm part
of the band, you know, as

1058
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,960
opposed to way the hell out
there, you know?

1059
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,640
And so same basic thing that
you're saying right now.

1060
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,640
Yeah, I just, I like there's a
connection you have with the

1061
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,240
band.
Of course there are.

1062
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:39,680
There's the toughness of it.
You know, you are also without

1063
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,360
knowing it for a lot of times
they're psychologists, demand

1064
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,120
psychologists.
And if if they're not having a

1065
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,040
great time, you you will know
about it.

1066
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,600
You know, but that there's also
a great responsibility and a

1067
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,680
great sense of achievement that
comes with that when it goes

1068
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,240
right, you know, when you and
you can tell somebody's having

1069
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,360
not a great time and you, you
can improve that situation for

1070
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,920
them.
You do go round and round in

1071
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,440
circles.
I mean, I work with some

1072
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,800
difficult artists and have
worked with difficult artists

1073
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,400
over the years.
But I totally get where it comes

1074
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,800
from.
I used to take it really

1075
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:16,120
personally when an artist would
lose their head, you know, and,

1076
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,440
and shout or scream.
But then I just imagine you are

1077
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,840
in front of 100,000 people and
something's going wrong and

1078
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,400
every the whole room's looking
at you.

1079
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,160
You know, I totally get it.
Yeah, I totally get it.

1080
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,480
Like you could convince do it,
come on, let's do it.

1081
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,120
As long as it stays in this
moment and when we go off stage,

1082
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:33,120
we all have a hug.
Fine.

1083
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:35,400
But I couldn't do that
previously.

1084
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,120
I used to carry it with me and I
used to think, oh, I'm terrible.

1085
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:42,040
You know, I'm on my own.
I'm very self critical and I

1086
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,160
think we all are.
And I think that used to really

1087
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,560
do me in that I used to think,
well, I'm not good enough to do

1088
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,720
this because.
Yeah, You know, one time, one

1089
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:55,200
time, I was at, this is a long
time ago, but I was standing at

1090
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,960
Madonna rehearsals.
I was at front of house with the

1091
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:02,120
the LD.
And Madonna is notoriously a

1092
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:08,440
fairly mean and nasty woman.
And so she stops because her

1093
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,640
microphone kept cutting out.
And she stops and she just

1094
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:17,600
starts berating the monitor guy.
And, you know, he's like, yes,

1095
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,200
ma'am, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am.
And you can hear the whole thing

1096
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,000
because we're just in a small
facility at rehearsals.

1097
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,960
And she says, well, why is my
mic cutting out?

1098
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,480
And none of theirs are.
And, and the monitor guy said,

1099
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,680
well, because they're on
different channels than yours.

1100
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,520
And she said, well, put me on
their fucking channel, you

1101
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,520
idiot.
And we're all like, yeah,

1102
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,040
that'll go well, honey, that'll
go really well.

1103
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:47,880
Yeah, So I know a good friend of
mine.

1104
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,200
Well, I say friend, colleague of
mine has been Madonna's monitor

1105
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,120
engineer for about 15 years.
And I know him very well.

1106
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,440
But we all have like this,
there's an internal kind of

1107
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,080
WhatsApp message group.
None of them what none of us

1108
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,800
want to be him.
You know, he's always very happy

1109
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:08,800
to to to offload a little bit of
the of his frustration since

1110
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,400
then, which we all are with
every key, I guess, but that's

1111
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:12,800
definitely one that I don't
think I.

1112
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,320
Want to take I can't imagine
well, another one.

1113
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,160
Do you know Jim Yakubusky or do
you know of him?

1114
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,280
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, so I, I knew him growing

1115
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,680
up.
I, I owned a music store after I

1116
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,080
got off the road playing music.
And he was a customer of mine.

1117
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,000
He was a local sound guy.
And we became very good friends.

1118
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:36,360
They called him Jim Pasabusky
and, and, but anyways, great

1119
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,000
sound guy even in clubs and
stuff.

1120
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,000
But when he first started, he
started with I think with DB

1121
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,280
Sound in Chicago and he was
doing monitors and one of his

1122
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,760
early gigs was with Ingve
Mehlmstein.

1123
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:54,840
And so not only is he hard to
work for, hard to talk to, hard

1124
00:58:54,840 --> 00:59:00,160
to communicate with whatever,
but he wants his guitar in every

1125
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,200
monitor at warp volume.
And so nobody can hear

1126
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,200
themselves.
Nobody, you know, this was wedge

1127
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,480
monitors, not, not in ear.
And nobody could hear anything

1128
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,760
except his guitar.
It was just so loud on stage.

1129
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,440
And if there was ever feedback
through a microphone, he would

1130
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,600
just look over at him like, I
will kill you, you know, with

1131
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,720
his look on his face, like, I'm
going to murder you and then

1132
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,640
fire you, you know, jeez.
So yeah, it sounds like a tough

1133
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,760
gig to me, being a monitor guy.
It was there was a time when

1134
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,640
being a monitor guy was just how
loud you can get a vocal in a

1135
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:37,960
wedge, though that was quite fun
and then in years came along and

1136
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,800
now it's like how some people's
in their mates is like we call

1137
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,160
it the record.
You know what is there an inmate

1138
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:45,600
sound like sounds like the
record some.

1139
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,760
So, you know, some people just
want to hear like a front of

1140
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,200
house mix with themselves a
little bit louder, which is

1141
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,400
could be very.
Yeah, that's a very critical

1142
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,320
kind of thing to do.
It was way easier when he just

1143
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,480
wanted to kick drum and a really
loud vocal in in a wedge for

1144
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,360
sure.
But it is also it's it's ruined

1145
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,160
music, in my opinion.
Here's the thing we should talk

1146
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:07,920
about.
And you've you been a musician.

1147
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:13,120
So I I couldn't blind test.
Well, I don't know.

1148
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,440
I'm not going to make that
claim, but I'm going to say you

1149
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,480
can definitely tell the
difference between a band

1150
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,440
playing who are on Ineers and a
band playing who are on wedges.

1151
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,960
Dynamically, there's a huge
there's a huge difference.

1152
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,960
And why is that?
I just think it's down to

1153
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,920
dynamics and people have to
intricately listen when you're

1154
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,520
not being forced to in your ear,
you know?

1155
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,520
I think that's what is.
It's like you go and see or you

1156
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,800
go.
You put a Clapton live TV live

1157
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,160
thing on YouTube.
Now when somebody starts

1158
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,400
soloing, everybody else plays
choir.

1159
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,840
I know it sounds ridiculous, but
this, it's Jenny.

1160
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,040
I can tell the difference.
My wife works for Steely Dan and

1161
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,680
I went to see Steely Dan and I'm
like I'm it's a, it was the

1162
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,320
first time I've seen a band that
big nowadays would not wear, not

1163
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,840
wearing an ears.
And I was in the holiday and it

1164
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:01,680
was the most amazing.
Obviously, Steely Dan, it's

1165
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,080
going to be great.
We'll talk about them.

1166
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,520
That sounds like the the CD.
Right.

1167
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,480
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Like the dynamics and the way

1168
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,360
people play.
And then I started doing a

1169
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,640
couple of shows and a band I
work for them was still on

1170
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,040
wedges.
And I was like, these guys do

1171
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,560
play differently to guys who are
wearing in ears.

1172
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:19,920
And it's not obviously one of
the things.

1173
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,200
Maybe it's just that you can't
use a click when you're playing

1174
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,800
on wedges.
You know, maybe that's what it

1175
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,280
is and maybe I like more that
moves.

1176
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:31,320
It's more natural, Yeah, it's
more.

1177
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,560
Natural, yeah.
But yeah, I know what I've.

1178
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,040
I know that I've heard.
That before.

1179
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,920
That's a really interesting
observation.

1180
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,680
I.
Like I've I've talked to a few

1181
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,360
more engineers about it and
they're there.

1182
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,920
It's a common consensus among
the ones I've spoke with.

1183
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,240
Let's say, I'm not saying we
should go back to wedges.

1184
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,640
I'm just saying there's
definitely a kind of music that

1185
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:53,000
suits wedges and I would say pop
suits Indians.

1186
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,800
No, no, no.
You know no doubt about.

1187
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,800
That at the at the start of a
tour with especially with a new

1188
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,080
act that you've not worked with
before, do you like kind of sit

1189
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,760
down and have a little meeting
with them and and talk about

1190
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,240
what they want in their ears?
And is every guy got or girl got

1191
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,080
their own?
You know, you want it like this,

1192
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,360
you want it like this, you want
it like this and they get their

1193
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,520
own mix or whatever or.
So certainly in my experience is

1194
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,680
there's never the opportunity to
do this with anybody.

1195
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,720
You have to kind of so everybody
has their own go through things

1196
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,000
that they do.
I think everyone.

1197
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,320
So instead of finding out what
they love, you find out what

1198
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,240
they hate first.
Because they just go right,

1199
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,520
basically, yeah.
Let's get more specific.

1200
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,360
What part of it sucked?
All of it.

1201
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,240
You know, well, that that's that
would definitely be a lead

1202
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:35,120
singer's reply.
Yeah.

1203
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:39,200
But yeah, yeah, I so I just and
I think most people do the same.

1204
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,480
You just build a mix with them
slightly louder in the mix than

1205
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,120
everybody else.
That's like your your first

1206
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,440
thing you go to thing.
And then I think, I mean, any

1207
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,320
pro musician can play to that.
But then, then you then you get

1208
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,280
into the detail of, oh, actually
I like to hear this a bit louder

1209
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,240
in this song.
I actually pitch from the

1210
01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:59,880
acoustic guitar when the rest of
the time I pitched from the

1211
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,120
piano.
And that all starts.

1212
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:06,040
But I can't say I've ever other
than with, let's say when I work

1213
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,440
for a solo artist, I'll speak
to, I'll make an effort to speak

1214
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,720
to the solo artist and say, Hey,
nice to meet you.

1215
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,800
I'm going to give you a mix.
Is there anything you really

1216
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,680
don't want you know?
Yeah, Well, I mean, unless

1217
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,080
they're really a new artist,
they probably know exactly what

1218
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,480
they want, and they'll come to
you and say, I'd like a little

1219
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,320
bit of this, a lot of this, some
of this.

1220
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,520
And sure, you know, whatever you
do, don't do this.

1221
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:30,520
Yeah.
But then here's the thing that

1222
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,520
that's interesting is that when
you're the first monitor

1223
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,360
engineer for a new artist to his
engineers, do you, are you the

1224
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,800
basis for what they then hear
for the rest of their career?

1225
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,320
Because that's quite a
responsibility if you want.

1226
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,560
That's true too.
You know, the first, the first

1227
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,440
time they really have have a
great show on stage.

1228
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:50,320
They're here in the mix that
you're giving to them.

1229
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,520
I wonder sometimes if
subconsciously that mixes then

1230
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:58,760
their their point of reference.
Yeah, for everything that comes

1231
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,080
ahead in their career.
Interesting.

1232
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:02,840
That's an interesting thought,
yeah.

1233
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,440
Inside the mind of a monitor
engineer, things I I.

1234
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,800
Just thought, you know, you
either hear it out of that

1235
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,280
speaker in front of you or you
hear it in your ears like big.

1236
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,680
I never played with in ear
monitors.

1237
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:17,080
I've never I'm too old.
So when I quit playing live in

1238
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:20,040
ears hadn't come out yet.
So I've never played with with

1239
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:24,480
wedges in front of me, you know,
So that's very, very

1240
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,040
interesting.
Yeah, it's something that, I

1241
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,600
mean, I had one of those the
people that likes to dive into

1242
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,960
the psychology of everything I'm
doing.

1243
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:36,320
So I would guess to my detriment
sometimes feedback is no longer

1244
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,960
an issue.
But the other thing IFC is that

1245
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,240
people don't project as much.
Now in this sing people, you

1246
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,760
know, a singer used to have to
project and they used to have to

1247
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,880
have certain amount of
microphone technique because

1248
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,280
they could hear it directly.
When they're still with the

1249
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:51,960
microphone in the hand and the
sounds coming out of that

1250
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,880
speaker next to them, they will
automatically, you know, their

1251
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,840
brain will know this, this kind
of hand to eye movement or

1252
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,280
whatever.
Oh, it gets louder when I do

1253
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:01,440
this.
It gets quiet when I do this,

1254
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,480
you know that they're not.
But nowadays on in ears, singers

1255
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,120
are singing like this going,
hey, dude, I can't hear myself.

1256
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,400
Yeah.
And because the technology is

1257
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,880
there, it's like the connection
between the brain and their hand

1258
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,200
doesn't doesn't occur.
Interesting.

1259
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,680
There's, there's kind of no
direct relation in somebody's

1260
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:23,160
head anymore or not, not in some
people's, but between the thing

1261
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:24,840
they're holding in their hand
and the noises coming out of

1262
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:26,480
their in ears, you know what I
mean?

1263
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,440
Yeah.
Whereas with a model with a mic

1264
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,680
and a wedge, she was.
Yeah.

1265
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,640
But it doesn't necessarily mean
singers that might be getting

1266
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,840
better because of it, because
they don't have to project.

1267
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,880
I'm not saying it's a negative
thing, but it's just things I

1268
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,800
haven't noticed.
You can.

1269
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,520
You can we.
We jumped off of your founding.

1270
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,800
We jumped off of your start in
the business, so.

1271
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,640
You did we?
You were using, you were using

1272
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:51,240
your dad's leverage to get gigs
in rental companies, OK.

1273
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,680
And so, so they eventually hired
you obviously, right?

1274
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,560
They did so and.
Paint boxes and drink tea.

1275
01:05:58,120 --> 01:05:59,960
Yeah.
And then occasionally do the

1276
01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:02,320
odds gig there was.
There was a Blues Festival.

1277
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,520
I grew up in a really sad
northern town in England where

1278
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,720
we had a Blues Festival.
That's how sad the town was.

1279
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,160
Yeah.
Anyway, so every year there was

1280
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,320
a Blues Festival and I was
helping the, the, he was

1281
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,400
actually the front house
engineer set up for this Blues

1282
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:18,720
Festival.
And then he fell I'll during the

1283
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,520
setup, right?
And he was like, I'm going to

1284
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:22,880
have to go on.
Do you think you can do this?

1285
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,560
And I was like, I'm going to say
yes, whether I think I can do it

1286
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:27,960
or not, right?
Of course.

1287
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:29,720
And that was kind of like my
baptism of fire.

1288
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,440
Then all of a sudden I was there
mixing bands and it was like

1289
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:35,520
that, that was the push I
needed.

1290
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:37,320
And then they started hiring me
from that.

1291
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,280
Basically, they had to pay me
for doing that shift.

1292
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,960
Obviously that's cool.
And then they started hiring me

1293
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,480
and then I started getting into
bands and then I went on tour

1294
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:48,280
with a punk band called The
Damned when I was 17.

1295
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,360
I went on tour with Monitors
from the Damned.

1296
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,600
And then from then it kind of
snowballed.

1297
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,560
And then I left that little PA
company I was working for and

1298
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,840
started working with different
bands and, and now and now I've

1299
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,280
become a production manager for
the last three years.

1300
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,280
So did you ever?
Become a front of house guy or

1301
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,840
you just always stayed monitors
and then you went straight to

1302
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,080
production management.
Oh, what I did was I if I was a

1303
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,240
front of house engineer for an
artist and this happened quite a

1304
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,840
few times and the sorry, if I
was a monitor engineer for the

1305
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,480
artist and the front of house
engineer couldn't make a show,

1306
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,120
the artist would suggest, the
artist would suggest that I

1307
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,360
would mix front of house.
That's a good thing.

1308
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:25,800
That's a.
Good thing.

1309
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:27,920
And it kind of makes sense to me
because it's like, well, Aaron

1310
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:34,960
knows to show and he he knows
the music, you know, so he can

1311
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,000
go out from there.
And I quite liked that because

1312
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,000
there was kind of no pressure.
You know, it wasn't my idea.

1313
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,480
It wasn't me saying, hey, I can
go on.

1314
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:44,280
I can go and do front of heart.
It was like somebody saying,

1315
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,680
Hey, can you go on?
So and I like that.

1316
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:50,400
And I got to I remember it was
Pink Pop festival.

1317
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,280
It's quite a big festival in
Holland.

1318
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,800
And it was Paul McCartney was
headlining, Lionel Richie was

1319
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,480
second from Headline and the
band artist I was working for

1320
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,160
was third from headline on the
mainstage.

1321
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,360
And it was pretty cool all of a
sudden that without knowing it,

1322
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,840
I was stood with, you know,
some, some great front of house

1323
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,440
engineers and I enjoyed that
day.

1324
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:14,880
How many people were in the
audience?

1325
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:16,319
Was it a stadium?
It was a big.

1326
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:18,279
Big it was.
It was probably 80,000.

1327
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:19,800
It's a festival.
Oh, Jesus.

1328
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:21,359
It was a, he was actually an
Adamson rig.

1329
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:25,160
It's a huge Adamson rig, Yeah.
And it was just awesome.

1330
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:27,600
I enjoyed it, but there was no
pressure on me.

1331
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:31,040
There was the pressure I was
putting on myself of like, OK,

1332
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:34,120
you better actually be, you
know, be good at this because

1333
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:39,399
you're kind of, you've kind of
took a shortcut here to mixing

1334
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:40,880
one of the biggest festivals.
Right.

1335
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,960
But I liked it.
We got to spend 4 days in a

1336
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,600
rehearsal studio in London and I
had APA in my home room and I

1337
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,720
could literally just rebuild the
mix as many times as I wanted

1338
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,120
and basically learn how to be a
front of house guy if I'd have

1339
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,160
if I'd have needed to in those
four days.

1340
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:58,600
So that's how.
You think it went?

1341
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,359
I think it went really well.
Yeah, that sounded good.

1342
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:06,479
Yeah.
And then I've done it for OMD

1343
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:08,040
quite a few times, actually, in
front of us guys.

1344
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,399
And yeah, and even though it's
not my academies, I go out

1345
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:14,760
there, make it sound like I
think it should sound and then

1346
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,120
that's that.
But I've never, I still don't.

1347
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,120
I never actually wanted to be a
front of house engineer, I don't

1348
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,600
think.
That's an interesting thing.

1349
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,399
You know, it's like, I know
lighting directors that never

1350
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:27,040
really wanted to be the lighting
designer.

1351
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:30,640
You know, they just wanna, they
wanna program the show or go out

1352
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,399
and operate the show on tour,
but they don't necessarily wanna

1353
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:37,200
be the guy who sits with the
artist and makes all the

1354
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,680
decisions on what the show
should look like, you know?

1355
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,560
I think it's good to have people
like that, all right?

1356
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,560
If everybody's always, if
everybody comes on tour hoping

1357
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:46,560
to be the tour manager, how
would that make the tour manager

1358
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:47,640
feel?
Yeah, I know.

1359
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,240
If you're like, everybody wants
my job.

1360
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,439
Yeah, well, plus you're not
taking the job you're in

1361
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,440
seriously if you're always
looking at the one above it,

1362
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,160
right, As opposed to the one
that you're in.

1363
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,120
How about being the best at the
one that you're in so that

1364
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,320
people are talking about you and
wanting to hire you?

1365
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,440
You know, it's job security.
Yeah.

1366
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:08,880
Delicate Productions Since 1980,
Delicate Productions has

1367
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,800
mastered the art of lighting,
audio and video in high energy

1368
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,880
live settings.
From iconic music festivals to

1369
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,560
global tours, corporate
launches, award shows, sporting

1370
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,840
events and beyond.
For Delicate, the only way to

1371
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,360
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1372
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,560
With precision, creativity and
full service production

1373
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,720
capabilities, they turn bold
visions into moments that linger

1374
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:40,160
in pop culture's subconscious.
Need a single touring partner to

1375
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,480
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1376
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,920
Delicate delivers it all.
Florida State Located in the

1377
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,920
greater Los Angeles area and
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1378
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:57,880
Productions network, Delicate
has access to a deep nationwide

1379
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,760
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1380
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,040
amplifying your tour's full
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1381
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:08,240
Whether you need rigging,
production design or end to end

1382
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,040
show management, they deliver it
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1383
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:14,920
And it doesn't end there.
Delicate delivers a full 360

1384
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,240
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1385
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,840
Pyrotechnico, experts in
fireworks, special effects and

1386
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,640
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Together they create truly

1387
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:31,000
immersive multi sensory
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1388
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,440
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Visit delicate.com to see how

1389
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:39,320
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That's delicate.com, where

1390
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,400
technical brilliance meets
creative impact.

1391
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,360
Yeah.
So when did you start on the

1392
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,680
production manager thing then?
How long ago was that?

1393
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:53,000
I think it's five years ago now.
I think I've been with OMD and

1394
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:54,840
I'd kind of got the monitors
nail them on.

1395
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,000
OMD show is very it's now time
coded.

1396
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,120
It's very, you know, sharp
production wise in the terms of

1397
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,280
and they always play this tunes.
We don't once we rehearse and

1398
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,040
then we go out, it's always the
same show.

1399
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,440
You might throw a song in here
and there, but it's very

1400
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:11,800
programmed.
It's very easy to, they're very

1401
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,200
electronic so there's not a lot
of variant changes.

1402
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,320
I think we have 4 live, 4 live
mics on the stage.

1403
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:23,840
The rest is all is all de eyed.
How many how many actual

1404
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:28,160
musicians or members are in?
There's 4 musicians on stage.

1405
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:32,160
Yeah, OK.
Two keyboards, drums and A and a

1406
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,600
singer who plays the bass.
OK.

1407
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,720
And how many are original still
because they were big in the

1408
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:42,000
80s?
So I don't know how to

1409
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,240
diplomatically say this.
There's two main guys, Paul and

1410
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:48,760
Andy Martin, who's the second
keyboard player, has been there

1411
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,640
since the beginning, and then
the Stewart on drums who came in

1412
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,800
in the 90s basically.
Oh, OK.

1413
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:02,280
But the as as a band, yeah,
there was a drummer who was with

1414
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:06,040
him as long as Martin, but he
fell I'll and didn't want to go

1415
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:08,360
on tour anymore.
But they they've been together a

1416
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:10,360
while.
Yeah, yeah.

1417
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:12,720
Interesting.
So that that was happening, I

1418
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:19,160
was kind of searching for
something else to get into if I

1419
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,520
wanted to stay with the band,
because I love the crew and I

1420
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:25,560
like the band and the tour man.
And then I started just getting

1421
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:26,840
into mischief.
Basically.

1422
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:31,240
I started, you know, uncon in
consciously unconscious.

1423
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,960
How do you say without thinking
causing problems, just to repair

1424
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:36,680
them?
I wasn't doing this

1425
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,760
deliberately.
It was the trait that people

1426
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,800
were noticing about me, like,
and they know I'm not the kind

1427
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,840
of person to sabotage something.
So they were like, what's going

1428
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:45,920
on here?
So the tour manager pulled me in

1429
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,400
and he's based in Nashville,
pulled me into the office.

1430
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:49,960
And they said, hey, how are you
doing anyway?

1431
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,920
I said, I'm all right.
I said, are you going to get him

1432
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,640
bored here?
And I was like, and it's hard to

1433
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,040
say yes.
You don't want to say I'm bored

1434
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:00,600
of this shit, you know, But I
said, why?

1435
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:02,280
What you thinking?
He said, I think you'd probably

1436
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,440
make a good production manager.
You've been here long enough,

1437
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:07,520
you know the ropes, and you seem
to be interested in that side of

1438
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:10,680
things.
And I was like, and I turned it

1439
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,120
down.
Here's what happened.

1440
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,480
I turned it now.
Yeah.

1441
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:15,800
I turned.
I was like, no, no, no, no.

1442
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,320
Everyone's going to, you know,
because I'd, I'd.

1443
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,760
But then I started to think
about it and I started to think

1444
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:24,920
that could actually be something
I'd be interested in doing.

1445
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:27,720
And my wife is a production
assistant.

1446
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,480
She's she works with some huge
names.

1447
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,320
And I thought, I'm going to ask
Tony what Production Manager

1448
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:36,600
actually does, because let's be
honest, we're all stuck in our

1449
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,480
own little jobs on tour.
Of course.

1450
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,120
Yeah, no, but no.
You think you know what?

1451
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:41,240
Everybody.
Yeah, you know what?

1452
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,120
You don't think he does, but you
don't know exactly.

1453
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,480
Like in his hotel room yesterday
or the day before.

1454
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:49,600
What was he doing, you know, or
plus, what's he doing, you know?

1455
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,800
Yeah, so.
And then there's still things

1456
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:55,720
now that I've learned.
Oh, that's my job, is it?

1457
01:14:55,800 --> 01:15:00,560
You know, and I think every role
varies with with the different

1458
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,800
artists you work for.
You know what, what you actually

1459
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:05,840
do, you might be the guitar
tech, but the guitar tech on

1460
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,760
this camp also does whatever
gives the award or twice a show,

1461
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:12,560
whatever.
It's the same in every other

1462
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,200
capacity.
So I started to think about it.

1463
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:15,640
I was like, OK, I'm going to do
this.

1464
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:20,560
And I had a chat with the crew
and I said, guys, I'm going to

1465
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:23,840
do this, but I don't know
everything, all right?

1466
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,000
And I'm not and I'm not going to
pretend to know everything.

1467
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,800
Can you just push me along here?
And then we we did that and it

1468
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,320
was, it worked out really well.
Well, that's a great attitude to

1469
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:36,160
take.
Obviously, like if you go in

1470
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:40,240
there like a, you know, big, you
know, swinging, you know,

1471
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,840
whatever and, and you think you
know everything and you're,

1472
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:46,360
you're acting differently
towards the crew and stuff,

1473
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:48,600
they're probably going to rebel
against you.

1474
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,480
But if you go in and say, guys,
I really don't know how to do

1475
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:53,960
this gig, but I'm going to do my
best at it and I want you to

1476
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,280
call me out when when I'm
missing something.

1477
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,240
Yeah.
That's going to be really well

1478
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,120
received, I would expect.
Yeah.

1479
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:01,360
And it was, it worked really
well.

1480
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,040
And then kind of parallel to
that, then I start to get into

1481
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,920
like the The Dirty bit of the
industry, you know, the the, the

1482
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,680
finance bit, the money bit and
the deals side of it and things

1483
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,000
that I had no idea about.
And that led me into, now I do

1484
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,800
kind of local promoter work in
Germany too, where where I was

1485
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:24,080
go and work for the promoter.
So I see both sides of the money

1486
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:26,440
side of the business now.
I actually find it really

1487
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:29,200
interesting.
If you'd have asked me even 10

1488
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,240
years ago, five years ago, would
you want to get into the

1489
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,720
accounting side of the music?
It started to be like, no way.

1490
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,360
But I find it really interesting
and maybe it's just like

1491
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,800
learning something new.
I've always liked learning

1492
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,000
things.
So I'm getting into that side of

1493
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:46,880
it.
I don't know whether I would.

1494
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,720
I still call myself a monitor
engineer and even at the bottom

1495
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,520
of my e-mail, it doesn't say
production manager, it says OMB

1496
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:55,880
production manager slash monitor
engineer.

1497
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:58,760
You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
go on try and take a Jake Perry

1498
01:16:58,760 --> 01:16:59,840
geek or whatever, you know what
I mean?

1499
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,600
I'm just, I'm good.
I think I'm doing a pretty good

1500
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,720
job at doing, of working with
this band.

1501
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,120
Production manager in the band
I've been with for a long time.

1502
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,440
Yeah.
It is something I'd like to

1503
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:15,920
pursue, Yeah.
I wouldn't put myself out there

1504
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:17,760
yet, I don't think.
But I'm enjoying the journey.

1505
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,920
I'm enjoying the journey so far,
yeah.

1506
01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:22,800
So do you do both?
Are you doing?

1507
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:24,280
I do both, Yeah.
I do both.

1508
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:28,720
Yeah, yeah.
So what do you do when they're

1509
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:30,600
not touring then?
Do you just go back to the local

1510
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,960
sound company and say.
No, I coach.

1511
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,200
I have another artist.
Who who?

1512
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,000
I don't production.
I just mixed monitors for called

1513
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:39,440
Anastasia.
It's quite big and she's

1514
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:40,800
American I see, which is huge in
Europe.

1515
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:43,360
Yeah, I'm still just mixed
monitors for her.

1516
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:48,200
It's quite funny that now
because I'm APN that feels like

1517
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:50,280
a holiday now.
It's very funny to say, and I

1518
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:51,560
used to.
Everything used to feel like

1519
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:52,720
hard work.
Yeah.

1520
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,720
And it still is hard work, don't
be wrong, but it's nice to just

1521
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,080
go and concentrate on one role
and do that.

1522
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:02,640
And then other than that, yeah,
local production, I mean local

1523
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,960
promoter work.
And those both those tours seem

1524
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,160
to just never cross over each
other.

1525
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,680
Oh, they crossed over the time,
but I always managed to deaf out

1526
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:15,200
Anastasia because, yeah, it
manages to work out and they're

1527
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:17,680
luckily they're very
accommodating and they're aware

1528
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,360
of my situation.
It's Anastasia.

1529
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:24,760
When we played a gig in Denver
with OMD, Anastasia came to

1530
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,760
visit us because she lives in
Denver and it's funny, she got

1531
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:29,720
to see me doing the other role
and everything.

1532
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:34,800
It was, it was really nice.
Yeah, so I want to talk a little

1533
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,360
bit about sort of something I
know that's that's important to

1534
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,960
you mental health and especially
while touring.

1535
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:46,440
And also like, you know, I know
this podcast is called Geezes of

1536
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:48,240
Gear.
We get a lot of people who are

1537
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:52,800
in their 60s and 70s who are on
this, who were really part of

1538
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,640
the foundation of the industry
in the in the 60s and 70s.

1539
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:03,120
And I think you kind of came in
at the tail end of the heavy

1540
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:08,040
drug use and just total mayhem
and, and full on drunkenness.

1541
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:11,320
And, and all of you know, I
mean, I know there's still a lot

1542
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:15,080
of this stuff that goes on on
the road, but it's much less

1543
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:18,320
than it was.
The 70s and 80s were just, you

1544
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:20,400
know, complete batshit mayhem,
right?

1545
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:25,160
So I've had, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's

1546
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:29,680
funny because evil lights
consoles always had a little

1547
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:33,360
drawer for the keyboard and
nobody used it for a keyboard.

1548
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,280
It there was a mirror in there.
Blow on it.

1549
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,800
No, it just had lines of blow
laid out and right in the middle

1550
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:43,320
of the show, somebody just hit
it, you know, and it was just,

1551
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:47,160
it was rampant.
And so, you know, I know you

1552
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,840
told me when we were before we
even got on here that you

1553
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,760
actually quit drinking.
And I think that's an incredible

1554
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,960
decision for someone who's in
this lifestyle where every night

1555
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,880
feels like a party, no matter
how how much you don't want it

1556
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:03,800
to feel that way.
So, you know, tell me, tell me a

1557
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:07,200
how you got to be more
interested in in mental health

1558
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:12,080
and and more focused on it, but.
You know just how you cope with

1559
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:14,360
it and what that's like on the
road and that kind of stuff.

1560
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:18,920
So like you said, I came in, I
did come in Taylor very end of

1561
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:21,720
the 90s, I would say, let's just
say when I started hanging

1562
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,960
around in the scene and I very
much, there was still very much.

1563
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:30,080
And there was a group of people
who I grew up working with and I

1564
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:32,160
learned from who were still
doing all that kind of stuff.

1565
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:35,120
Yeah.
And I, I felt like I had to

1566
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,000
partake in order to fit in and
did.

1567
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:44,000
And it did leave me down a road
of, of because I was still

1568
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:45,680
learning back then.
You know, I was still young.

1569
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,040
I was a kid really.
And I'm not blaming anybody

1570
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:52,040
else, but I think it it must a
lot of things I was going

1571
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,960
through and I've only just
reason I'm 149 days.

1572
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,000
So it's probably quite good for
you.

1573
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,200
Probably quite early to talk
about this, but.

1574
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,520
Now about 149 days you're you're
over the hump for the most part.

1575
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:08,520
And but I mean this, and I've
been in 26 years in the industry

1576
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,920
now, 25 years maybe.
And so all that time there was

1577
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:14,400
there was drug use, if I'm
honest.

1578
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:15,960
And there was, there was a lot
of drinking.

1579
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:21,280
And I would, it would, it was
just what you did, right?

1580
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,000
It was you finished the gig, you
cracked open a beer.

1581
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:25,840
He got on the bus, you shot the
shit.

1582
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:28,640
And that's how that was your
therapy.

1583
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:30,920
And yeah, genuinely, that was
the therapy.

1584
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,200
You know, you had a hard day.
We'd all shout at each other.

1585
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,480
We were in a freezing cold ice
arena, whatever, you know,

1586
01:21:37,480 --> 01:21:39,760
everyone was on the ship there.
We all got on the bus.

1587
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,200
We drank a beer.
We did a line.

1588
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:42,920
And then we were, we were all
right.

1589
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,440
We were friends again, right?
Yeah.

1590
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,080
And that was that was a kind of
therapy.

1591
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,360
And I'm sure that got people
through years in the industry.

1592
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:53,520
My thing was what what happens
when I get home?

1593
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,680
You know what I mean?
I was.

1594
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:59,440
That's true PTSD.
I was very good at being at

1595
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:02,880
being air and on tour.
I was really good at being here

1596
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:04,440
on tour, right?
But I wasn't good at being Aaron

1597
01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:08,200
at home.
And I and I didn't realize that

1598
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:11,400
it was because of Aaron on tour.
I wasn't good at being Aaron at

1599
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:13,600
home.
So did you just did you just try

1600
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,640
and shut everything off when you
got home or did you?

1601
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:17,240
Try to paint.
It when you got home.

1602
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:20,080
Well, so for a long time I shut
it down because obviously you

1603
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,480
don't wake up in the morning and
do a line of coke right at home.

1604
01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:26,120
Yeah, but I didn't know who I
was.

1605
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:28,520
You know, you don't get a day
sheet at home, you don't have a

1606
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:31,040
place to be, you don't have a
job, you don't have a role.

1607
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:35,400
You just you at home.
And I didn't know how to.

1608
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:39,160
I couldn't cope with me being
having a role and being having

1609
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,160
an importance on the road and
the schedule and a thing and

1610
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:43,480
then a big party at the end of
it.

1611
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:46,720
I couldn't cope with the
conscious of going home and

1612
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:48,160
going.
What do I do now?

1613
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:50,440
I've got a few more washing.
OK, that takes one thing.

1614
01:22:50,440 --> 01:22:53,240
Well, then what do I do?
You know, I couldn't, it took

1615
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:55,520
wild.
It's taken me years and years

1616
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,920
and bearing the amount I've been
married for 11 years, my poor

1617
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:02,560
wife, but it's it took me years
and I just couldn't.

1618
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,640
And then so I then I started
behaving at home like I wasn't

1619
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:09,160
taught because I figured I must
be Erin on tour.

1620
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:11,680
That must be who I.
AM and the party.

1621
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:16,480
Basically, I've been trying to
align these two people into into

1622
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:20,680
being just Erin for as long as I
can remember.

1623
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:25,400
And I'm and I'm my journey of,
of trying to align these two

1624
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,160
people.
So it's just one person who who

1625
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:31,840
can be good at work and could be
good at home has led me now to

1626
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:33,520
stop drinking and doing
everything.

1627
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,560
And it seems to be improving.
And I'm not saying everybody

1628
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,440
should stop drinking.
I hate preaching to people.

1629
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:41,920
I'm not drinking works for some
people.

1630
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,720
And like I said, it's a thought.
It can be a form of therapy.

1631
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,800
If that's what brings you closer
to other people is maybe there's

1632
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,840
nothing wrong with it, you know,
but I just became really focused

1633
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,280
on mental health and I could see
other people having the same

1634
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:59,160
problem as me, which and that
was one thing that kind of

1635
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:01,880
helped me.
I didn't feel so alien.

1636
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:05,000
I didn't feel like there's
something wrong with me because

1637
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:09,160
I could see in other people.
But we just, we never told each

1638
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:11,880
other.
We never said, there you go.

1639
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:14,560
You know this is all great fun,
but what do you do when you get

1640
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,000
home?
You know, we never had that.

1641
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:19,360
Real men don't talk about that.
No, right?

1642
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,520
Right.
You know, hey, do you ever when

1643
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:26,000
you get home from a tour, you
know, do you ever feel like a

1644
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,360
certain way?
You know what I mean?

1645
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:28,760
Nobody ever had that
conversation.

1646
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:31,880
And then I met like minded
people like Sarah, who's the

1647
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:34,120
producer of your show and people
like that on a tour.

1648
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:36,360
And then we just started talking
about it and I was like, this

1649
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:37,920
makes perfect sense to talk
about it.

1650
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:40,480
I still love talking about gear
and hopefully we will talk

1651
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:42,440
talking about gear and stuff in
a minute.

1652
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:46,120
Yeah, but it's important to talk
about real life too, Like we're

1653
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,560
all real people, you know,
completely agree.

1654
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,320
The people on stage, and I
always used to use this, this

1655
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:55,200
kind of this anecdote or
whatever you will call it, this

1656
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,360
that I used to say, you know, if
the the singer on stage has a

1657
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:01,760
meltdown and then the next day
comes out with all this mental

1658
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,120
health stuff, it's like it's
glorified.

1659
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:07,800
Everyone's like, oh, this is
amazing that this person is

1660
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:08,680
speaking out about mental
health.

1661
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:13,840
If their guitar tech has a
meltdown, they're chastised by

1662
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:15,800
the whole crew, and you know
what I mean?

1663
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,320
They're fired and replaced.
I mean, hopefully it's, yeah,

1664
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:20,840
hopefully it's not like that.
It's slowly becoming not like

1665
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,160
that, but you know what I mean.
It was OK for the artists to

1666
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:26,400
stand on stage and rightfully
so, share their journey of

1667
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:28,080
mental health and everything
they go through.

1668
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,760
You know, they go from the
100,000 people screaming their

1669
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:36,400
name and you know it being in
awe of them to 20 minutes later

1670
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:37,680
being sat in a hotel room on
their own.

1671
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,040
That's that's a real.
Yeah, it's wild.

1672
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:43,120
Real head fuck, you know, so
they're they're cool to share

1673
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:45,160
that journey, but you know we
all go on that journey with them

1674
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:48,920
too to a certain extent.
You know we're all we're all

1675
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,840
part of this team effort to
build something make it great.

1676
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:54,520
We all go through shit days.
Oh, the gig happened really

1677
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:56,680
well, woo, let's load out yes
well, we did it.

1678
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:59,080
We all, you know, there's a
sense of euphoria then then it

1679
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:00,960
stops, you know?
Yeah.

1680
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,920
And it's it's something that I.
Could so now as as PM, though,

1681
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:07,880
do you talk to like your crew
about this stuff?

1682
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:10,640
Like do you see guys, if you
ever need someone to talk to,

1683
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:12,800
I'm here.
You know, I'm not telling you to

1684
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:14,080
drink.
I'm not telling you not to

1685
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:15,280
drink.
I'm not telling you to do

1686
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:17,400
anything.
You know, I am telling you to

1687
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,400
make sure you show up on time
and and if you're a mess when

1688
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,920
you show up, I'm probably gonna
have you sit down and have a

1689
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,640
conversation with me.
But, you know, other than that,

1690
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:29,160
I'm not your father.
But I am paying attention, you

1691
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:30,400
know.
Yeah, I do.

1692
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:32,920
I try to look after.
It's also, it's tough, isn't it?

1693
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:36,040
Because if you're, if you're
aware that somebody is

1694
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:38,840
struggling a little bit, to a
certain extent, the last thing

1695
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,640
you want to do is tell them
you're aware, you know, because

1696
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,640
I'm sure that's the last thing
they want to know is that, oh,

1697
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,000
people have noticed and I'm
struggling.

1698
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,120
That's not something that's a
great feeling, is it?

1699
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:49,840
It's really, it's a really tough
thing.

1700
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,440
And that's why I think I've
always been a great advocate for

1701
01:26:52,440 --> 01:26:56,280
just making it a thing everyone
can talk about, just like, hey,

1702
01:26:57,400 --> 01:26:59,440
you know what I mean?
Why can't we just talk about it?

1703
01:26:59,440 --> 01:27:02,360
If you're, if you're, you wake
up with a cough in the morning,

1704
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:03,680
you can't, there's no hiding, is
there?

1705
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:05,480
You're going to cough, people
are going to know.

1706
01:27:05,480 --> 01:27:07,520
Well, it's no different really.
To a certain extent.

1707
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:11,520
You wake up feeling shit, you
know, just tell people it's

1708
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,160
fine.
We all wake up feeling shit

1709
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:16,920
sometimes, you know, and it
sure.

1710
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,680
And there's a stigma of, oh,
he's having a bad day.

1711
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:21,360
Does that mean he's going to
fuck up at his job?

1712
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:23,160
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

1713
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:26,760
This is and this is the other
kind of fear you have of and

1714
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,520
I've got to say, like the people
in our industry, they'll always

1715
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:31,960
do their job to their own
detriment, You know, I mean, you

1716
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,360
never have to worry about people
doing their job.

1717
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:36,760
That's that's the one thing that
they are going to do.

1718
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:39,120
Their whole life might fall
apart, but they will do their

1719
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:40,640
job, you know?
It's crazy.

1720
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:44,320
I mean I've seen people you know
who couldn't hardly see 2 feet

1721
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:46,240
in front of them.
They're so wasted and they

1722
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:48,920
still, we managed to put on a
great show.

1723
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:52,440
So how do you say too much about
that?

1724
01:27:52,440 --> 01:27:56,960
But one thing I'm wondering is
you're married to someone in the

1725
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:58,640
industry as well.
I think you said she's a

1726
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:02,320
production assistant.
And does that make all of this

1727
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:05,280
harder or easier?
One thing that makes it harder

1728
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:06,960
is that she can deal with it way
better than me.

1729
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:10,960
She can go on tour and, you
know, she's approaching corner,

1730
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,000
she's running, she's got toward
30 flights in the air.

1731
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:16,240
She's bucking our towers.
This person can't make, you

1732
01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:19,440
know, all that stuff.
Different level of, of, of, of

1733
01:28:19,480 --> 01:28:21,560
head fuck going on.
But she can get home, walk

1734
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:24,360
through the door and she's home
and she's back in home mode like

1735
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:25,800
that.
Really.

1736
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:28,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and not many people in the

1737
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,000
world can do that.
So that may be harder for me

1738
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:35,680
because it made me feel more
pathetic in a way, you know what

1739
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:37,320
I mean?
I feel for you man.

1740
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:39,680
Don't they all do that to us
though?

1741
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:40,680
Isn't.
That right.

1742
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:42,640
They're all awesome.
Let's be honest.

1743
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,960
Yeah.
But it was.

1744
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:48,160
Yeah.
But it was, it was.

1745
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:51,440
She could understand elements of
it, for sure.

1746
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,200
But the hardest bit was when I
would come home, she would go on

1747
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:59,040
tour, which would make it easier
for me to be Aaron on tour at

1748
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:01,040
home, if you know what I mean.
Right.

1749
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:04,440
You know.
Because now you also have an

1750
01:29:04,440 --> 01:29:07,040
excuse like I'm here, I'm bored,
what else am I going to do?

1751
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,160
Yeah, I'm going to go out with
the boys and have a few pints

1752
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:12,120
and, you know, you never know
what happens then.

1753
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:13,680
Right.
That's this is the thing.

1754
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,880
So that it just, it just became
one big mess.

1755
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:21,360
And it's it's it's not an easy
thing to do what we do, is it?

1756
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:22,320
Let's be honest.
Yeah.

1757
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:24,520
Free your head.
Some people can do it.

1758
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:26,120
Tanya's did.
Tanya would if she was here,

1759
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:28,160
she's in the other room.
She'd be screaming around now.

1760
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:29,640
Yeah, it is easy.
Just got to get a grip or

1761
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,040
whatever.
And some people can't do that.

1762
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:35,200
Some people and I can't.
And I'm going to be the first to

1763
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:38,680
admit, and I will happily tell
anybody who's having a bad day,

1764
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:42,880
even on a tour I'm on.
Hey, I totally feel it.

1765
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,880
And it's totally normal to have
to be having a bad day, to be

1766
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,520
missing home, to not know who
you're supposed to be, you know,

1767
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,480
to think that the 10 people on
your bus don't like you.

1768
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:59,240
We all know these these thoughts
and it's just it's natural.

1769
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:01,760
You know what we're doing.
We are like you said, I don't

1770
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:03,560
know whether we're recording
when you said it, but to be

1771
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,000
we're all shoved on a bus with
the people we might never met.

1772
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:09,600
It's like, hey, guys, you're
going to live together for eight

1773
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:11,400
weeks.
Have fun, by the way, killing.

1774
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:13,600
Each other.
Yeah, you've got to do a real

1775
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,720
really hard job all day and deal
with all the politics of that.

1776
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,360
And then we're going to put a
load of of drink in the fridge.

1777
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:21,520
Yeah, for you.
For you every night.

1778
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:25,480
Some pizzas and 24 beers, yeah.
Exactly.

1779
01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:28,840
And but don't get me wrong,
we're very privileged to do what

1780
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:32,640
we do.
And yeah, I I remember also

1781
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:34,200
going to see Dream Theatre when
I was a kid.

1782
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,840
One of my favorites, by the way.
Dude, Dream Theatre, one of my

1783
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:40,080
favorite ones of all time.
Well, I remember.

1784
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:43,360
Both musicians, like, you know,
you go see Dream Theatre and you

1785
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:45,800
don't see a lot of hot girls in
the crowd, that's for sure.

1786
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,600
You see people playing air
guitars and air drums and yeah,

1787
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:51,920
bunch of dudes.
It was on the six degrees of In

1788
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:55,360
a Turbulence tour, actually, and
it was Manchester Apollo and I

1789
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:58,400
was sat on the balcony, I could
see the monitor desk and I was

1790
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:02,120
like, if I could only do
monitors in Manchester Apollo

1791
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:04,800
for a band.
And I remind myself of this

1792
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:06,920
things like a dream.
I remind myself of this story

1793
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:10,480
every time in Manchester.
Apollo and I share the story

1794
01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:13,360
with everybody in catering and
the people who tour with me more

1795
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,000
are on the same tour with me.
Get so fed up of it because

1796
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,480
every time I'm in catering,
catering is under the stage in

1797
01:31:18,480 --> 01:31:20,360
Manchester Palace.
Say guys, I just want to stop.

1798
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:21,680
I want to tell everybody
something.

1799
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,360
And they're like, shut up.
Yeah, this door here.

1800
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:27,560
And.
But the people who are like, who

1801
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,200
are young, I'm not prepared to
admit, and they've always wanted

1802
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:32,920
to do this for a living, are
really grateful for it.

1803
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:34,920
You know, they're like, wow, I'm
so glad someone else.

1804
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:36,400
That's your pinch me moment,
right?

1805
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,920
And everyone has them.
And I make sure to remind myself

1806
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,480
of that too.
I remember we, I was, I was

1807
01:31:42,480 --> 01:31:45,240
doing Cat Stevens rehearsals in
there, but I was doing monster

1808
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:46,800
Cat Stevens.
And it was, we were having a

1809
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:50,560
horrible time.
And I remember just I had to

1810
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:53,000
stop myself and go.
You always, you're in Manchester

1811
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:54,480
Apollo.
This was like, you're this,

1812
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:56,520
that's my Madison Square Garden.
Let's say.

1813
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:00,720
I was like, you know, no matter
how bad this moment is, you

1814
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:03,200
always wanted it.
So deal with it, you know.

1815
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:05,520
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah.

1816
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:09,760
So you're, you're moving into
gear a little bit here.

1817
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:11,280
Thank you for sharing all that
with me.

1818
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:15,440
By the way, I, you know, I love
conversations about either

1819
01:32:15,440 --> 01:32:19,560
struggles or, or mental health
or, you know, abuse.

1820
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:22,440
You know, there's a gentleman in
our industry, I don't know if

1821
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:25,320
you know, I'm named John Wiseman
and he's one of the most honest

1822
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:27,920
and straight in your face kind
of guys there is.

1823
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:32,200
He's a, he's a like head of
touring or something for PRG,

1824
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,440
Very, very successful in our
industry, one of the most

1825
01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:39,880
successful account execs ever
and does really big stuff.

1826
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:46,000
But he was a notorious drug
addict and was running verilite

1827
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,640
while he was a notorious drug
addict and alcoholic in in the

1828
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:56,640
80s and 90s and ran light and
sound design sales as a

1829
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:59,360
notorious drug addict and
alcoholic.

1830
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:05,560
And you know, the he'll tell you
crazy funny stories about when

1831
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:09,320
he was wasted out of his mind on
drugs and alcohol and whatever

1832
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:12,240
and all of that stuff.
And, and he'll also tell you

1833
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:15,640
exactly when he hit rock bottom
and had to go borrow money from

1834
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,840
his parents to go to rehab or
else he was going to die.

1835
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:23,680
And I think he's about 30 years
clean and sober now and super

1836
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:27,200
successful, happiest guy in the
world, you know, just happy to

1837
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:31,000
be alive everyday and so
grateful that he was given, you

1838
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:35,680
know, another chance at life.
And he's, if you ever, I'll tell

1839
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:39,760
you this right now, if you ever
feel a bit down, like, you know,

1840
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,760
maybe I should go back to my old
ways or whatever, Yeah, shoot me

1841
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:46,600
an e-mail and I'll connect you
with John and have a 5 minute

1842
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:49,800
conversation with you about what
happened to his life when he

1843
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:52,000
finally hit rock bottom and made
that.

1844
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:54,920
And I mean, this is a guy who
was doing, you know, an ounce of

1845
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,760
blow every day and, and a bottle
of Jack Daniels and a dozen beer

1846
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:03,240
too, you know, like he, he just,
he was over the top.

1847
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:10,200
So, but going on to gear and so
I know that you're like, you

1848
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:12,360
live in Germany.
I live in Germany, yes.

1849
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,800
Why do you live in Germany?
Is that sounds like a girl

1850
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:16,280
thing?
It's the love thing.

1851
01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:17,480
Yeah.
My wife's German.

1852
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:20,000
You would never, nobody ever
believes she's German.

1853
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:22,720
She she talks with Americans all
the time.

1854
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:26,160
She's with the Eagles and Steely
Dan and Lady Kravitz, and she

1855
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:28,440
speaks like an American.
Nobody.

1856
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,560
Yeah, the Americans don't
believe she's when when the

1857
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,320
Americans are on a tour with her
and they come to Germany, she

1858
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:35,640
starts speaking German like,
hey, wow, how did how did you

1859
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:38,040
learn German?
She's like, I'm fucking Germany

1860
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:38,800
you idiot.
I was.

1861
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:42,200
Born, yeah, exactly.
So that I moved to Germany.

1862
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:43,640
I was living in London at the
time.

1863
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,640
And then Tanya didn't move.
My wife didn't want to move to

1864
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:48,520
London.
And I'm so grateful that I got

1865
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:49,760
out of London, actually, to be
honest.

1866
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:53,680
And now I live in on the on the
banks of the river Rhine in Bonn

1867
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:55,640
in in West Germany.
Cool.

1868
01:34:56,200 --> 01:35:00,480
I have AI have a friend from
Canada who who, you know, grew

1869
01:35:00,480 --> 01:35:03,720
up at the same time I did.
He's the same age as me and he's

1870
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:06,400
a drummer and used to play in a
Rush tribute band.

1871
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:09,240
That was the best Rush tribute
band probably in the world at

1872
01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:11,440
the time.
And this was in like, you know,

1873
01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:17,000
the 80s and, and he now lives in
Berlin and plays for

1874
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:18,640
destruction.
OK.

1875
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:22,800
Big metal band, Yeah.
And he's been with them I think

1876
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,520
like 10 years now.
Used to be with Annihilator.

1877
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:30,120
I like, I don't know how you go
from being in technical rush

1878
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:33,440
music and then you go straight
to Annihilator and now

1879
01:35:33,440 --> 01:35:36,200
Destruction, you know?
But watching him play just makes

1880
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:38,120
me tired.
Like I'll watch his videos and

1881
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:44,040
it's just like constantly going
and every song is a full on

1882
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:47,040
workout, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1883
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:50,160
So he moved just, he moved just
for the music, did he?

1884
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:53,160
He moved, I don't know if he
moved.

1885
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,640
I think he moved for the music.
I think he moved because he was

1886
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,440
hired by Destruction straight
out of Annihilator.

1887
01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:03,960
And he also does some other
stuff like he he does a lot of

1888
01:36:04,040 --> 01:36:08,480
like he toured with WASP for one
tour as their drummer when they

1889
01:36:08,480 --> 01:36:10,280
lost their drummer or something
happened.

1890
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:14,360
And he's done a bunch of these
classic music things where it

1891
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:17,760
was like lots of people, Alice
Cooper and all these other

1892
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:20,440
people, and he was the house
drummer for that thing or

1893
01:36:20,440 --> 01:36:23,320
whatever.
But Destruction is his main gig

1894
01:36:23,440 --> 01:36:24,720
and.
He's not, he's not showed

1895
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:26,000
something black, is he?
No.

1896
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:28,000
Randy Black, Yeah.
Yeah, I know Randy.

1897
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:29,160
Yeah.
Well, Tanya did.

1898
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:31,520
Tanya did the tour with him.
She did the Rock Meets Classic

1899
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,040
tour.
Yeah, yeah.

1900
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:33,960
Right.
OK, Yeah.

1901
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:38,000
So if you ever do see Randy or
whatever, just tell him, you

1902
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,040
know, do you know this guy
Marcel from Canada?

1903
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:41,960
And he'd be like, are you
kidding me?

1904
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:45,240
OK, funny.
We've been friends for literally

1905
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:51,480
40 plus years so but anyways, he
so he's married.

1906
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:55,080
I don't know if he's married.
Is he married to her?

1907
01:36:55,080 --> 01:36:57,760
He's married to a woman in from
Berlin.

1908
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:00,960
So he lives in Berlin, but I
don't know if he moved there for

1909
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:02,640
the woman or moved there for
destruction.

1910
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,240
I that's a good question.
Probably the woman, let's be

1911
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:06,480
honest.
It usually is.

1912
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,360
Usually when somebody relocates
across the world, there's a

1913
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:10,600
woman involved.
Yeah.

1914
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:12,600
Yeah.
But you live in Germany.

1915
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:16,040
But you're an L acoustics guy.
And you know, I think you were

1916
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:18,760
trained on L acoustic and.
I was.

1917
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:22,640
But.
As much as as an L acoustics guy

1918
01:37:22,640 --> 01:37:24,000
monitoring engineer can be I
guess.

1919
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:30,040
Yeah, I've done L acoustics
training and if I I actually

1920
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:33,480
recommend Al Acoustics for the
for OMD because I think it

1921
01:37:33,480 --> 01:37:36,280
sounds better Al Acoustics.
But yeah, we were talking about

1922
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:38,760
this early and it's funny that
in Germany there isn't much.

1923
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:42,520
Definitely where I live, like
the local venue I work in

1924
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:45,240
sometimes it's got an Adamson
rigging and the local

1925
01:37:45,240 --> 01:37:46,600
conference.
All the way from Canada.

1926
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:48,040
That's kind of weird.
The Local.

1927
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:53,080
Conference coming out where for
is all mayor and I do wonder

1928
01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:55,680
whether DMV is really from
Germany or it's just a car.

1929
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,680
It's crazy.
That is crazy.

1930
01:37:57,680 --> 01:37:58,680
Yeah.
Yeah.

1931
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:02,520
So tell me because I'm a
layperson when it comes to these

1932
01:38:03,440 --> 01:38:05,520
line array systems.
I mean, I sell a lot of them

1933
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:11,560
because I only used equipment
company, but what's the

1934
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:13,560
difference between L acoustic
and D&B?

1935
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:17,960
If you're trying to sell me on
LL acoustic over D&B, what's the

1936
01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:19,760
difference?
Why would I buy L acoustic

1937
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:25,760
versus D?
And BI think for me, K1, the L

1938
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:28,960
acoustic system is the best
outdoor liner a system you'll

1939
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,760
ever hear.
I think it just it performs

1940
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:34,960
outdoors better than any other.
It doesn't seem to get blown

1941
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:37,280
around by the wind.
Let's just say very, very

1942
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:40,520
layman's terms.
That's that's my, it's an

1943
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:44,440
opinion I have, but that's it.
I do, I do think I do.

1944
01:38:44,480 --> 01:38:47,520
I won't necessarily, I'm sorry.
I wouldn't necessarily always

1945
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:48,680
choose out acoustics, to be
honest.

1946
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:56,800
I would for certain music if I
was going to mix a pop straight

1947
01:38:56,800 --> 01:38:58,120
down the line.
Pop group.

1948
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:01,840
I will probably recommend DNB
because I think DNB has this

1949
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:04,920
polite hi-fi sound.
Which system?

1950
01:39:06,480 --> 01:39:08,880
Specifically the new stuff, the
GSL.

1951
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:12,360
GSLKSL.
KSLGSL, all that stuff.

1952
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:19,200
I think it's got it's got a very
rounded how what's the way of

1953
01:39:19,440 --> 01:39:22,720
describing it?
I always say to people, and most

1954
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:25,280
people seems to agree with me,
you could walk blindfolded into

1955
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:29,160
a concert and if it was a DNB
rig, you would know you wouldn't

1956
01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:31,600
without taking your your mask
up.

1957
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:37,560
I don't know, maybe, but it's,
yeah, I think DNB has a very,

1958
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,920
the every speaker system has its
own sound, right?

1959
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:42,240
Which is a beautiful thing that
still exists.

1960
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:46,160
I think it's great that it's
I'm, I'm well into old guitar

1961
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:49,280
amps and stuff.
And I love the fact that, you

1962
01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:52,040
know, I can put a record and be
like, that's an AC-30, right?

1963
01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:53,480
Yeah.
And I love the fact that that

1964
01:39:53,480 --> 01:39:57,240
speakers, even nowadays, in the
modern age, do still have a

1965
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:59,840
certain tonality.
Yeah, even with all the

1966
01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:02,320
processing it goes.
It's no longer an AC 30.

1967
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:06,120
It's a some sort of a modelling
amp that's producing the sound

1968
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:08,720
of an AC-30, but it's not a Vox
AC-30.

1969
01:40:09,200 --> 01:40:10,720
So.
Yeah, sadly, yeah.

1970
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:13,320
Although, yeah, I could talk
about modelling stuff for for

1971
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:16,120
quite a while with, but we
should stick to audio because I

1972
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:17,400
actually know a little bit about
that.

1973
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:22,480
But yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, L Acoustics is a great

1974
01:40:22,480 --> 01:40:24,000
Oram product.
I know it well.

1975
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,240
Like I said, I'm a monitor guy
so I don't really get to choose

1976
01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:30,600
P as very much, but I was
trained on L acoustics and I

1977
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:32,200
know more about L acoustics,
let's just say.

1978
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:36,000
It just, it strikes me as funny
that that a British person would

1979
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:41,720
pick a French company, you know,
a French brand versus an English

1980
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:45,080
brand or an American brand or
even a German brand.

1981
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:48,640
Yeah.
I couldn't tell you why I was,

1982
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:50,360
to be honest.
Yeah, I don't know.

1983
01:40:50,440 --> 01:40:51,680
Because.
You didn't care where it was

1984
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:52,360
from.
Probably.

1985
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:54,240
Yeah, yeah, like most people
don't, right?

1986
01:40:54,480 --> 01:40:56,040
Yeah, I guess.
Yeah.

1987
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,560
But Speaking of modeling, and
this is a really dumb, dumb

1988
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:04,120
question because I'm a
layperson, but is there

1989
01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:07,120
modeling?
Like if I wanted an old tape

1990
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:11,880
echo, you know, a Roland tape
echo, for example, is there a

1991
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:14,440
plug in for a rolling tape echo?
Is there a plug?

1992
01:41:14,440 --> 01:41:17,360
In absolutely.
Yamaha SPX 90.

1993
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:21,200
I will.
I think there probably is an SPX

1994
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:22,400
night.
I love that SPX night.

1995
01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:24,520
I grew up on an SPX night.
Yeah, me too.

1996
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,280
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, there is.

1997
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:29,360
And there's there's all these
reverb plugins.

1998
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:33,160
Now you can just basically
import your own impulse response

1999
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:37,320
and create you, you can actually
measure the impulse response of

2000
01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:41,000
a room and create that room in a
plug in, you know, so you can

2001
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:44,080
say I want I want my snare drum
to sound like it's in Carnegie

2002
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:46,560
Hall.
And then you, somebody will have

2003
01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:48,800
taken the impulse response to
the reverberation towns and the

2004
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:52,320
decay of Carnegie Hall.
And you can tap it into a reverb

2005
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:56,800
and and make it sound like that.
Yeah, maybe it takes some of the

2006
01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:58,480
fun out of it.
Like, like we were talking

2007
01:41:58,480 --> 01:42:02,360
earlier about recording.
You know, earlier in in time you

2008
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:04,920
would have had to take that
snare into Carnegie Hall and hit

2009
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:08,640
it in order to get a Carnegie
Hall town and which would have

2010
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:12,200
maybe opened up your creative
world a bit more.

2011
01:42:12,320 --> 01:42:14,360
You know, maybe on the drive
from the Recon Studio to

2012
01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:16,640
Carnegie Hall you'd have come up
with another creative idea.

2013
01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:21,800
And it's down missing.
Yeah, I love seeing if you watch

2014
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:26,680
Led Zeppelin Song Remains the
Same or Things like that, where

2015
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:29,320
they talk about how they
recorded some of those sounds

2016
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:32,360
down the long hallway with.
When the levy breaks.

2017
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:34,520
And.
The top of a circus.

2018
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,080
That drum sound.
Yeah, amazing.

2019
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:41,360
You know, I love those stories
or or even just, you know, Jimmy

2020
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:44,280
Page talking about, you know,
and I don't remember the exact

2021
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:47,080
stories, but like I had to go
into a bathroom and close the

2022
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:50,720
door halfway, not all the way,
but halfway to get the perfect

2023
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:53,680
sound, you know, and now you can
just dial a little knob or

2024
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:56,920
something or punch a button or,
you know, soon it'll just be all

2025
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:00,240
done by prompt, you know, make
it sound like a small bathroom,

2026
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:03,040
about four foot by 6 foot with a
door half closed.

2027
01:43:03,320 --> 01:43:07,640
Walls are AI walls are plaster
painted with whatever you know,

2028
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:12,120
I mean and and it'll just model
that, you know, so.

2029
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:16,040
I was watching recently at Simon
Phillips, the drummer.

2030
01:43:16,240 --> 01:43:18,800
He was telling a story about
recording one of the albums he

2031
01:43:18,800 --> 01:43:22,840
recorded and he said, and the
producer said, I know how to get

2032
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:24,880
the perfect kick drum sound.
So I said, oh, what do I take

2033
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:26,160
the head off?
Do I put a pillow in it?

2034
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:27,680
Whatever.
He said, no, no, you need to go

2035
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:32,760
and buy me a 2 gallon paint pot,
fill it up half with water and

2036
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,720
I'll put AD112 microphone in it
and put that inside your kick

2037
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:37,640
drum.
And that's what they did.

2038
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:42,080
Yeah.
Who have ever came up with that?

2039
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:44,800
It must have been a moment of
frustration of I cannot get a

2040
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:46,680
good kick drum sound.
There's a paint pot here.

2041
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:50,440
I don't know.
I knew a drummer and it wasn't

2042
01:43:50,440 --> 01:43:52,960
Randy Black, it was a different
drummer, but I knew a drummer

2043
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:58,040
who, this was before there were
proper dampers on drums, that

2044
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:03,080
people were using duct tape.
And he decided, and he had tried

2045
01:44:03,080 --> 01:44:06,080
a million different things and
he was a perfectionist and he

2046
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:12,120
was using Kotex pads and it had
to be a particular size and a

2047
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:15,840
particular model of Kotex pads
because he had tried them all

2048
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:20,120
and that was what he used for
dampeners on all of his drums

2049
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:23,480
and so.
Incredible.

2050
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:28,200
It's like even, but Brian May,
he still uses a three pence coin

2051
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,440
as a guitar pick, right?
Because oh really?

2052
01:44:30,440 --> 01:44:33,000
He was still to this day, yeah,
his guitar.

2053
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:36,440
There's a rig rundown or
something geeky on YouTube and

2054
01:44:36,440 --> 01:44:39,480
these guitar ticks like I have
to go on eBay or all these coin

2055
01:44:39,480 --> 01:44:44,200
collecting shops to buy 3 pence
pieces, which is a coin that's

2056
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,000
not been made since the 1980s or
something.

2057
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:48,080
Yeah, and that's what he still
uses as a Plex on.

2058
01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:49,360
That's where his tone comes
from.

2059
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:52,600
Yeah, it's a particular type of
attack or whatever, I guess.

2060
01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:55,000
And yeah.
I love stuff like that.

2061
01:44:55,160 --> 01:45:01,880
Got super popular and I worked
in a guitar store and you know,

2062
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,760
Vox AC 30s just went crazy.
Like, all of a sudden they went

2063
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:09,560
from being an amp that you could
go buy at a pawn shop for $100

2064
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:14,160
to now people are paying 1000
bucks or $800 or whatever it was

2065
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:17,680
for these, these, you know,
crappy little amps because Brian

2066
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:20,200
May was using them now, you
know, so.

2067
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:22,080
And he had such an incredible
guitar tone.

2068
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,520
The world's going crazy now with
that stuff, isn't it?

2069
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:26,240
Like this guitar somebody
mentioned?

2070
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:30,360
I think I know an example of
this because I'm, I, I've messed

2071
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:32,000
around with guitar tones in my
spare time.

2072
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:33,960
That's kind of what I do.
I've got an old AC through here.

2073
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:37,080
I can't can't play guitar
particularly well because as

2074
01:45:37,080 --> 01:45:39,440
soon as I pick the guitar up,
I'm obsessed with the tone.

2075
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:44,320
Typical audio guy, right?
But there was a somebody went

2076
01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:48,480
back and looked over Gary
Moore's old rig and he used this

2077
01:45:48,480 --> 01:45:53,400
particular pedal, A Digitech Bad
Monkey distortion pedal, which

2078
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:55,840
at the time, just before this
interview came out, you could

2079
01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:59,160
get them for like 5 lbs on eBay.
Yeah, like a shitty, a shitty

2080
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:05,400
plastic Chinese, you know, Yeah,
whatever, solid pedal.

2081
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:09,800
And all of a sudden they're on
reverb.com now for about 600

2082
01:46:09,800 --> 01:46:13,320
bucks.
And it's crazy, this this fad of

2083
01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:16,280
people.
And I love the guitar players.

2084
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:17,840
I watched Rick Biato a lot.
Do you want?

2085
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:20,360
I don't know if you.
Yeah, yeah, dude.

2086
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,160
I love Rick Biato.
Yeah.

2087
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:25,200
And I love the guitarist that
come on and just say, hey, look,

2088
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:28,200
I tried everything to sound like
Van Halen, but and he even

2089
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:30,720
played through Van Halen's rig
once and I didn't sound like

2090
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:32,520
him.
He's like, he'll always sound

2091
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:36,080
like you.
And I love that kind of and

2092
01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:38,080
this, this.
And I think it's the same with

2093
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:41,120
what we do.
Like you'll always strive to

2094
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:45,240
sound like or be like somebody
else, but in you, you probably

2095
01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:46,880
have a good version of you.
Yeah.

2096
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:48,480
You're a really good version of
you already.

2097
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:49,240
Yeah.
No.

2098
01:46:49,240 --> 01:46:50,840
But nobody else is born to be
here.

2099
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:52,040
So just be you, I guess.
Yeah.

2100
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:54,720
It's a nice thing.
It's like a nice romantic saying

2101
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:56,800
in it, but it's true.
Yeah.

2102
01:46:57,320 --> 01:47:02,480
What, what are your thoughts on
AI and specific to our industry

2103
01:47:02,480 --> 01:47:07,840
and specific to whether it's
front of house mixing or monitor

2104
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:12,440
mixing, how long do you think
before there's not a person

2105
01:47:12,440 --> 01:47:15,520
standing there?
I think it's still quite a way

2106
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,000
to go, but I do have a story
about this.

2107
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:17,960
Actually.
It's funny you mention this.

2108
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:20,880
Oh perfect my friend.
Good friend who used to be a

2109
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:22,560
front of house engineer.
We used to work for a band

2110
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:25,680
called Uriah Heap together.
Of course I love Uriah Heap.

2111
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:28,320
He's a guy called Dan Payne and
he works for Midas now, you

2112
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:30,760
know, Midas to console
manufacturers who are owned by

2113
01:47:30,760 --> 01:47:34,760
Barons, you know, anyway, and he
was tasked with developing what

2114
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:37,480
is now the the digital desk that
Midas have their flagship desk,

2115
01:47:37,480 --> 01:47:40,600
the HD-96, right?
And it stands for Heritage

2116
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:43,440
digital because the heritage
consoles with a big old.

2117
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,840
Yeah, the Midas, you know.
The the purple big everybody

2118
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:48,960
loved them.
So they made the heritage

2119
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:51,600
digital and I was sent to beta
test it.

2120
01:47:52,440 --> 01:47:55,920
So and then I went to this.
It was the closest thing one

2121
01:47:55,920 --> 01:47:58,520
they had was in Belgium.
So I went with a multi track

2122
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:02,080
recording setup and I went and
they said, OK, the first thing

2123
01:48:02,080 --> 01:48:06,120
we need to do is you need to
create an online login.

2124
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:09,240
And I'm like, oh, and I was
thinking, is this part of the

2125
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:12,080
beta testing process?
They're like, no, no, no, in

2126
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:15,000
order to, to use this console,
it needs to be online.

2127
01:48:15,120 --> 01:48:17,120
This is God's honest truth.
It needs to be online and you

2128
01:48:17,120 --> 01:48:21,360
need to be logged in as you so,
and I was just excited to get

2129
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:23,680
into the, to the, to like the
depths of this console and

2130
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,240
figure it out.
And I'd help Dan out with a few

2131
01:48:26,240 --> 01:48:28,760
things and I was keen to see if
he'd put them in the desk.

2132
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:34,200
So and then I log in, I create a
profile and then it says, oh,

2133
01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:35,520
yeah.
And your show file will always

2134
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:37,560
save in here.
All your show files you make,

2135
01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:40,600
you know, will save into this
online cloud account.

2136
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:41,800
And I was like, OK, fair enough,
whatever.

2137
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:45,920
And then I played around with
this desk and I liked it and it

2138
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:48,760
was cool.
And then there's there's there's

2139
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,400
all these learned things going
on when you're curing something.

2140
01:48:51,400 --> 01:48:53,720
There's like a little learned
table flash up and then

2141
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:55,480
disappear.
I'm like, what's this little

2142
01:48:55,480 --> 01:48:57,600
thing like, oh, he's got AI
built in it and I'm like, OK,

2143
01:48:57,600 --> 01:48:59,640
what's the deal?
He's like everybody that uses

2144
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:04,120
this console and logs in every
day to the input and every move

2145
01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:06,760
they make and every EQ move,
every fader move is being logged

2146
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:10,280
by AI and it will create a
profile of you.

2147
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:14,800
And so at some point you will be
able to, you know, somebody will

2148
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:16,680
be line checking the snare and
you'll be able to say make this

2149
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:19,960
snare sound like air and EQ
snare drums.

2150
01:49:20,440 --> 01:49:22,160
Yeah.
Well, I was.

2151
01:49:22,240 --> 01:49:26,000
Presumably, presumably they're
going to put walls between

2152
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:29,240
everyone like that, you know,
and I wouldn't be able to dial

2153
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:31,160
up.
Aaron Well, well, this is the

2154
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:32,360
thing Dial.
Up his air drone.

2155
01:49:32,440 --> 01:49:34,120
Well, so I started asking this
question.

2156
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:35,360
I said, well, where's this
oldest dial?

2157
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:39,160
This data is all going to to our
cloud, so we can use it for

2158
01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:42,040
analysis unless and I don't know
what it was, something inside me

2159
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:45,880
didn't like it, right?
But of course, this data

2160
01:49:45,880 --> 01:49:50,920
collection has already become as
we know whether it will be used

2161
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:54,400
in that.
To be honest, AI great.

2162
01:49:54,400 --> 01:49:56,800
It couldn't.
And apparently I read a

2163
01:49:56,800 --> 01:50:00,080
statistic that I think I might
have seen it on Rick Biato that

2164
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:04,600
1% of the music in the charts is
already AI it like in the in the

2165
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:06,440
Top 40 already.
It's crazy, yeah.

2166
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:12,400
So it can be used for creation,
it can be used for, but can it

2167
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:14,440
paint a Picasso?
Here's the thing, and I'm not

2168
01:50:14,440 --> 01:50:19,160
trying to compare necessarily
what somebody does on a console

2169
01:50:19,160 --> 01:50:22,480
to a masterpiece, but you know
what I mean.

2170
01:50:22,480 --> 01:50:24,680
Can it?
It can recreate something, but

2171
01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:26,600
it can't create it.
Is is what?

2172
01:50:26,600 --> 01:50:28,920
But here's the way I think.
Here's the thing.

2173
01:50:29,440 --> 01:50:32,800
So a Picasso is a bad example,
because you're never going to

2174
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:35,720
make 10 Picasso's that are
exactly the same and produce

2175
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:39,920
them from scratch.
So when you're mixing sound,

2176
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:43,960
obviously you want it to sound
the same regardless of what the

2177
01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:49,000
characteristics of the building
or the crowd or the dynamics of

2178
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:51,480
the room are.
You want it to sound exactly the

2179
01:50:51,480 --> 01:50:54,360
same to the person who's
standing or sitting in that seat

2180
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:56,080
or whatever, right?
Well, that's.

2181
01:50:57,120 --> 01:51:00,600
Where I think AI is really good.
Can I stop you there if if you

2182
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:03,040
go to see a show in I'm an
idiot?

2183
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:06,200
No, no, it's, it's no, no, it's
interesting because a lot of

2184
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:08,440
people are of this opinion and a
lot of artists are of this

2185
01:51:08,440 --> 01:51:09,560
opinion.
And I'm not.

2186
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:11,920
And this is where I might get
into an argument with an artist

2187
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:14,840
potentially.
But if I go and see a show in

2188
01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:18,200
the Royal Albert Hall in London,
I don't want it to sound like

2189
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:23,480
I'm watching a show in Carnegie
Hall.

2190
01:51:23,480 --> 01:51:25,360
I want it to sound like I'm in
the Royal Albert Hall in London,

2191
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:29,000
Right?
Do you agree with that or not?

2192
01:51:29,320 --> 01:51:32,320
I because I'm fundamentally.
Do I have to sound like OMD?

2193
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:35,120
You know, wherever they're
playing, I think you want them

2194
01:51:35,120 --> 01:51:38,720
to sound like OMD, right?
But I think making everything

2195
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:42,600
sounds the same.
I don't know is is this not a?

2196
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:44,240
To me this is.
Statistics of the room, a

2197
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:46,120
strength or a weakness, you know
and I guess.

2198
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:47,640
They should be used as a
strength.

2199
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:50,120
Someone's perception.
I think they should be used as a

2200
01:51:50,120 --> 01:51:52,360
strength because the thing you
can't change, right, they're the

2201
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:54,520
constant.
You can't fight the room and if

2202
01:51:54,520 --> 01:51:57,000
you try you lose.
So.

2203
01:51:57,360 --> 01:52:01,080
But anyway, AI yeah, do I do I
think.

2204
01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:04,440
Are you asking me if I think it
will be mixing shows?

2205
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:06,840
Well, let me give you another
analogy.

2206
01:52:06,840 --> 01:52:10,120
So I don't think it's happened
yet in England, but here in the

2207
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:15,920
United States we already have
self driving taxis and we're

2208
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:19,280
starting to see cars without
steering wheels in them.

2209
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:23,680
And some of these self driving
taxis from Waymo and stuff have

2210
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:28,000
no steering wheel.
And some manufacturers are now

2211
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:31,840
designing cars either with no
steering wheel or with a

2212
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:34,320
steering wheel that has a tuck
away compartment.

2213
01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:39,240
And so that if you're using it
in self driving mode that you

2214
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:41,440
can just get rid of it, get it
out of the way so you can put

2215
01:52:41,440 --> 01:52:43,440
your laptop in front of you or
whatever, right?

2216
01:52:43,880 --> 01:52:50,280
And so when do we have a console
with no buttons on it and no

2217
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:53,920
knobs on it to twist?
It's a scary soul.

2218
01:52:54,800 --> 01:53:00,400
It's a scary thought.
I don't think it will be in my

2219
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:03,000
lifetime, but I might be wrong.
Really.

2220
01:53:03,280 --> 01:53:06,160
Yeah, I just think there's so
many variables.

2221
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:09,160
There's so there's so much stuff
that goes beyond science and

2222
01:53:09,160 --> 01:53:12,440
there's so many things that go
beyond prediction in what we do.

2223
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:20,160
Like you can't predict a lot of
things that happen in in in real

2224
01:53:20,160 --> 01:53:22,600
life.
I think with enough data you can

2225
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:28,880
process how what can happen on
the street, but there's music is

2226
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:33,080
dependent on emotion and mood
and things that the that we

2227
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:35,200
don't even have formula for you
I.

2228
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:37,520
Understand, I understand.
But wouldn't you think that

2229
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:41,480
that's so much a bigger problem
when you're talking about a car

2230
01:53:41,480 --> 01:53:45,120
moving through the streets of
Los Angeles or San Francisco or

2231
01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:50,240
London or New York and with
people jumping in front of it,

2232
01:53:50,240 --> 01:53:55,160
lights changing color, a, a taxi
or a, a U PS: Driver opening a

2233
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:58,040
door or someone opening a door
on their car and you got to stop

2234
01:53:58,040 --> 01:53:59,960
for that.
A dog jumping out from between

2235
01:53:59,960 --> 01:54:02,320
two cars.
You know, there's a billion

2236
01:54:02,320 --> 01:54:07,640
variables and the, the outcome
or the, the potential

2237
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:11,760
ramification of those variables
could mean that someone dies.

2238
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:16,200
So it's a little more critical
than, oh, the guy in I forget

2239
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:18,440
which ballroom you were talking.
What about Hammersmith or

2240
01:54:18,440 --> 01:54:22,040
something?
Didn't think that it had the

2241
01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:25,920
same normal characteristics that
the room usually creates.

2242
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:29,960
But instead it sounded more like
the other ballroom, this other

2243
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:33,760
one, you know.
And so I don't know, like, I

2244
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:37,360
think that's where AI shines is
when when there's a billion

2245
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:40,960
pieces of data being thrown at
it and it needs to sort through

2246
01:54:40,960 --> 01:54:44,320
those and make a really sound
decision, no pun intended.

2247
01:54:45,480 --> 01:54:48,800
That's where I think AI is, is
winning the war right now.

2248
01:54:49,080 --> 01:54:53,200
You know, whether whether that's
down to surgery or, you know,

2249
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:57,480
driving an automobile or, or
programming a sound or lighting

2250
01:54:57,480 --> 01:55:00,200
console, not programming, but
operating.

2251
01:55:01,320 --> 01:55:03,880
And you know, the programming
thing is all different.

2252
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:07,960
Like that is something where,
you know, I don't know that

2253
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:11,920
programming is a huge savings
between a human and A and a

2254
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:14,120
robot.
And I'd rather have the human

2255
01:55:14,120 --> 01:55:16,560
there because they can
counteract with the band and,

2256
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:18,600
you know, they've got a
relationship, they've been

2257
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:20,360
working together a long time or
whatever.

2258
01:55:20,680 --> 01:55:24,400
But to then go and fly that
human around from show to show

2259
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:28,000
to show and put him on a a bunk
on a bus and feed him everyday

2260
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:31,360
and he gets sick or COVID
happens or, you know, whatever

2261
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:34,680
else, you know, it's just you
could reduce the number of

2262
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:37,880
moving parts on a tour by
eliminating some of those

2263
01:55:37,880 --> 01:55:38,880
positions.
Obviously.

2264
01:55:39,040 --> 01:55:41,840
Now, am I an advocate for that?
Of course not.

2265
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:44,480
I've got so many friends that
are front of house engineers.

2266
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:48,280
But I just, I think it's going
to be driven by money.

2267
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:53,960
Artists, managers, accountants
are going to be presented with

2268
01:55:53,960 --> 01:55:55,880
these technologies and
opportunities.

2269
01:55:55,880 --> 01:56:00,720
And I don't know, I'm just mean
I'm arguing for fun right now.

2270
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:03,200
Not yeah, no, I think I want it
to go that direction.

2271
01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:07,600
I'm just kind of thinking that
to be honest, we've even with

2272
01:56:07,880 --> 01:56:10,120
automation, we as good as it is
today.

2273
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:15,560
Let's I mean to a certain
extent, you know, I time code my

2274
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:18,960
monitor console nowadays, right?
The same way that our lighting

2275
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:22,880
guy all time code his short and
you know, in theory, all we do

2276
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:25,360
at the start of a show,
obviously during the day,

2277
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:27,840
everyone's doing that thing like
the lighting guy's doing his his

2278
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:31,320
positions that change from
day-to-day because the rig moves

2279
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:35,360
in front of our skies EQ in the
room, the things and then.

2280
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:40,120
But in theory, all we do then is
click time code enable off we go

2281
01:56:40,120 --> 01:56:41,920
right.
And we just sit there and hope

2282
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:44,760
that nothing goes wrong that
that already happens, doesn't

2283
01:56:44,760 --> 01:56:45,680
it?
Yeah.

2284
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:51,760
So whether there there will be
an AI that does that all that

2285
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:55,760
does the programming stage of
it, I mean, I'm sure it's

2286
01:56:55,760 --> 01:56:58,400
possible that I mean let's just
both say that it's definitely

2287
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:00,880
possible, right.
Does our, does our industry have

2288
01:57:00,880 --> 01:57:02,840
enough funding to make it even
viable?

2289
01:57:02,840 --> 01:57:08,080
I don't know.
Yeah, that's well.

2290
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:11,440
So here's the thing.
I think it could become a race.

2291
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:15,120
So, you know, like for example,
if you get a console company

2292
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:19,920
who's not Digico or not one of
the very top brands, who

2293
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:23,440
decides, you know, OK, what have
we got to lose?

2294
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:25,840
We're going to be first, you
know, because that's part of the

2295
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:29,360
problem right now is whoever
says I don't need you anymore,

2296
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:32,120
front of house engineer is going
to get kicked off the specs

2297
01:57:32,160 --> 01:57:35,760
immediately like they're done.
She'll never spec another ABC

2298
01:57:35,760 --> 01:57:39,680
console because you're the one
who who did the deed and said

2299
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:44,560
I'm I'm expendable.
But somebody's going to have the

2300
01:57:44,560 --> 01:57:49,040
balls to do this or someones
board of directors or investors

2301
01:57:49,040 --> 01:57:51,560
are going to push them to go the
AI route or whatever.

2302
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:56,040
And I think it'll start softly.
So it'll start, as you know,

2303
01:57:56,160 --> 01:57:59,520
Aaron plus AI equals super
monitor guy.

2304
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,160
Sure, yeah, now you're the best
monitor person in the world.

2305
01:58:03,240 --> 01:58:05,840
You know, nothing will ever go
wrong anymore because you're

2306
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:08,600
supported by AI.
So that'll be step one.

2307
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:11,240
And that's what music's music's
done that too, right?

2308
01:58:11,240 --> 01:58:15,560
It's been like music this this
producer with this AI, yeah, set

2309
01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:18,640
of tools can make this music.
Virtually in an office, like

2310
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:21,280
virtually every role in an
office, whether it's sales or

2311
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:24,960
accounting or whatever it is,
they're all doing it now too.

2312
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:31,840
You know, AI supported roles and
but AI is certainly, you know,

2313
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:35,520
AI companies are going after
those roles and trying to take a

2314
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:37,920
bigger piece of the pie.
And the same thing will

2315
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:40,040
eventually happen with those
audio companies.

2316
01:58:40,040 --> 01:58:44,080
Now you've started it, you've
basically lit the match, you

2317
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:46,800
know, and now we're going to
start a bonfire and, and get rid

2318
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:50,840
of all these people and we're
going to do it by enticing the

2319
01:58:50,840 --> 01:58:54,600
customer on what the cost
savings will be and you know,

2320
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:58,000
so.
I think that's the tricky part

2321
01:58:58,160 --> 01:58:59,920
in our industry.
That's the tricky part, right,

2322
01:58:59,920 --> 01:59:04,880
Because to and one of the, you
know, the magical things to the

2323
01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:07,400
artist is that they don't know
every detail of what happens

2324
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:13,560
before the show comes together.
They don't know how much that

2325
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:15,240
costs and how much he could not
cost.

2326
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:18,600
That that's all done by a human,
by a tour manager or management

2327
01:59:18,600 --> 01:59:23,280
or a So how would their a
console manufacturer's linked to

2328
01:59:23,280 --> 01:59:26,840
get to where the management
would have to go through the

2329
01:59:26,840 --> 01:59:28,800
human that they're trying to
eliminate, wouldn't it?

2330
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:30,200
Which is?
Yeah, but which is the

2331
01:59:30,200 --> 01:59:32,840
interesting part?
When the world needed automated

2332
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:37,440
lighting, yeah, what happened?
A smart scientist got with a

2333
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:42,320
very successful musical act,
Genesis, and it created

2334
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:45,200
verilite, you know.
And so you had a built in

2335
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:51,080
client, you had a A built in
supporter and loudmouth who was

2336
01:59:51,080 --> 01:59:53,720
gonna go out there and say this
is the most amazing thing.

2337
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:57,840
And they basically were the
market creator for that product.

2338
01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:02,080
Everybody saw verilites on
Genesis and went, holy shit,

2339
02:00:02,080 --> 02:00:04,000
those lights are moving, you
know.

2340
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:08,520
And so I don't know, it's gonna
be interesting to watch.

2341
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:11,000
Like I hope I'm young enough to
see.

2342
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:14,480
How this all progresses, I know
it's going to be slow because we

2343
02:00:14,480 --> 02:00:18,400
are a small ish industry when it
comes to this kind of stuff and

2344
02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:22,160
you know like MA lighting grand
MA, they're not going to want to

2345
02:00:22,160 --> 02:00:25,920
piss off lighting designers, you
know who are currently speccing

2346
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:27,760
the hell out of their product
all over the world.

2347
02:00:28,120 --> 02:00:33,560
But what if we've got some fancy
Chinese manufacturer who makes

2348
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:36,760
an incredible console that does
10 times as much as the MA

2349
02:00:36,760 --> 02:00:40,520
console does, but costs 1/4 of
the price and doesn't need an

2350
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:42,960
operator?
You know, now they got nothing

2351
02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:44,360
to lose.
They're gonna go after your

2352
02:00:44,360 --> 02:00:48,600
customers, you know, So it's not
someone eating themselves, it's

2353
02:00:48,600 --> 02:00:50,280
somebody else eating.
Your lunch.

2354
02:00:50,280 --> 02:00:51,280
I see what you mean.
Yeah.

2355
02:00:51,880 --> 02:00:54,280
Jeez, you're giving me anxiety
now.

2356
02:00:54,280 --> 02:00:55,440
I'm sorry.
That's my job.

2357
02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:57,640
You know is.
To warn the world for what might

2358
02:00:57,640 --> 02:01:00,040
happen, I guess.
But, you know, again, I'm, I'm

2359
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:04,400
playing devil's advocate because
I think that our industry is

2360
02:01:04,400 --> 02:01:07,400
going to be much more on the
support side, AI support.

2361
02:01:07,400 --> 02:01:10,280
So the things that you're doing
that are repetitive and boring

2362
02:01:10,280 --> 02:01:11,760
and you hate doing them
everyday.

2363
02:01:12,080 --> 02:01:14,760
Yeah, that's gonna be the first
stuff that AI goes after.

2364
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:18,480
You know, the lines of code that
you have to do or the, the, you

2365
02:01:18,480 --> 02:01:22,160
know, the stuff where you have
to assign things or like when

2366
02:01:22,160 --> 02:01:26,360
you're, you're, you know,
assigning lighting positions and

2367
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:30,280
stuff like getting rid of a lot
of the labor is gonna be step

2368
02:01:30,280 --> 02:01:31,400
one.
Yeah, OK.

2369
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:36,600
You know, I think everything
else will be secondary, so.

2370
02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:38,480
It's tricky.
Yeah.

2371
02:01:38,600 --> 02:01:42,280
I mean, you're probably right.
I couldn't see the a lot of

2372
02:01:42,280 --> 02:01:46,080
things that have now come to
fruition be impossible at the

2373
02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:50,560
time when I heard about them.
You know, I remember my first

2374
02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:53,680
boss at that peer company, I
started that saying nobody's

2375
02:01:53,680 --> 02:01:56,600
going to want to mix a show on
ATV screen about digital

2376
02:01:56,600 --> 02:01:57,960
consoles.
No.

2377
02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:01,280
And I and I agreed with him
about, hey, we all do it now.

2378
02:02:02,120 --> 02:02:03,920
Yeah.
So yeah, maybe we'll just become

2379
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:04,720
the norm.
Maybe.

2380
02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:08,680
I mean.
It's how every technology seems

2381
02:02:08,680 --> 02:02:12,320
to be, you know, seems to
happen.

2382
02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:14,440
Like, first there's a whole
bunch of people that say, no,

2383
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:16,960
that'll never work.
You know, why would we ever want

2384
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:18,440
to do that?
Why would we ever want to fly

2385
02:02:18,440 --> 02:02:21,160
our speakers in this weird
looking curve that's ugly?

2386
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:22,920
You know, the stacks are
beautiful.

2387
02:02:22,920 --> 02:02:26,240
Everyone loves them, Yeah.
And you know, you don't see very

2388
02:02:26,240 --> 02:02:30,440
many point source stacks on big
tours anymore, do you?

2389
02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:32,480
So.
Sadly not, no.

2390
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:36,360
Yeah, yeah, I miss them.
I used to love when you know the

2391
02:02:36,360 --> 02:02:39,920
bands would be going so hard and
the stacks were practically

2392
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:43,080
moving and stuff and like, it
was fun.

2393
02:02:43,360 --> 02:02:44,920
You know what I miss too, is
that.

2394
02:02:45,720 --> 02:02:47,360
Yeah.
If you're doing a standing show,

2395
02:02:47,600 --> 02:02:50,120
it used to be louder at the
front than at the back, right?

2396
02:02:50,120 --> 02:02:51,640
Yeah.
So if you wanted it to be loud,

2397
02:02:51,640 --> 02:02:52,840
you would walk to the front.
And if you.

2398
02:02:52,960 --> 02:02:56,200
You could adjust your own sound.
Yeah, now the invention of line

2399
02:02:56,200 --> 02:02:59,720
erases meant you can't escape.
Yeah, you know you can't escape.

2400
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:03,320
A bad sounding show.
I'm, I'm probably missing 20% of

2401
02:03:03,320 --> 02:03:06,520
the, the hearing in my ears
because believe it or not, I was

2402
02:03:06,520 --> 02:03:11,200
this skinny little kid and I was
probably 15 or 16 years old.

2403
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:15,840
And I remember working security
between the barrier and the, and

2404
02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:21,640
the stage in Calgary, Canada for
a Ted Nugent show.

2405
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:26,320
It was Ted Nugent the the, the
tour where he wore a loincloth.

2406
02:03:26,320 --> 02:03:28,680
It was called Scream Dream or
something like that.

2407
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:31,680
OK.
And it was, you know, they

2408
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:34,800
bragged about it being one of
the loudest tours ever at that

2409
02:03:34,800 --> 02:03:38,120
.1 of the loudest shows ever.
And I'm right in front of these

2410
02:03:38,120 --> 02:03:41,560
massive stacks of speakers and I
just remember my ears ringing

2411
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:47,600
for days after that show, right.
And, you know, earplugs were not

2412
02:03:47,600 --> 02:03:50,840
really a thing, no back then,
you know.

2413
02:03:51,360 --> 02:03:53,680
I guess you couldn't.
And you, you had a job that

2414
02:03:53,680 --> 02:03:55,320
placed you right in front of the
speaker cabin.

2415
02:03:55,320 --> 02:03:56,480
You couldn't move, I guess,
yeah.

2416
02:03:56,960 --> 02:03:58,960
But yeah, I do miss.
More than willing.

2417
02:03:59,480 --> 02:04:02,040
Yeah, yeah, at that age for
sure, I do, yeah.

2418
02:04:02,040 --> 02:04:04,280
But like I said, I do miss the
point source vibe if it is

2419
02:04:04,280 --> 02:04:05,760
louder at the front than it is
at the back.

2420
02:04:05,760 --> 02:04:08,920
And this, that was something
that L Acoustics actually

2421
02:04:08,920 --> 02:04:12,680
created was this, this idea of
it should be the same level all

2422
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:15,520
the way through the venue.
And it's another thing that I

2423
02:04:15,520 --> 02:04:19,280
don't necessarily agree with,
but yeah, it's it's improved the

2424
02:04:19,280 --> 02:04:21,320
concert experience for the
people who buy the cheap seats,

2425
02:04:21,480 --> 02:04:23,560
let's be honest, which is not a
bad thing.

2426
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:26,720
Yeah.
Well, and also for older people

2427
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:29,080
who want to sit closer to the
front but don't want to have

2428
02:04:29,080 --> 02:04:32,120
their head blasted off, Yeah,
it's a little more pleasant for

2429
02:04:32,120 --> 02:04:33,520
them as well.
I guess so.

2430
02:04:33,520 --> 02:04:35,800
I guess, yeah.
Yeah, but I'm I'm with you.

2431
02:04:35,840 --> 02:04:38,920
I agree.
Like, I like that SPL boom boom.

2432
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:41,480
You know when you're standing
near a stack of speakers?

2433
02:04:41,960 --> 02:04:44,360
Yeah, you don't really get that
as much anymore.

2434
02:04:44,720 --> 02:04:46,880
No.
You know, at shows because,

2435
02:04:47,640 --> 02:04:51,440
yeah, I mean, it's just so nice.
The sounds nice.

2436
02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:52,960
It's.
It's like a big hi-fi perfect.

2437
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:55,120
Yeah, yeah, it's like a big
hi-fi.

2438
02:04:55,120 --> 02:04:56,960
Exactly.
But you know what?

2439
02:04:56,960 --> 02:05:00,760
About God?
I talked about it at the front

2440
02:05:00,760 --> 02:05:06,000
end of the show.
Not Boy, my brain is fried.

2441
02:05:06,360 --> 02:05:08,320
Hang on a SEC.
I got to remember what I talked

2442
02:05:08,320 --> 02:05:09,840
about at the front end of the
show.

2443
02:05:11,440 --> 02:05:13,200
I can't remember either.
Immersive audio.

2444
02:05:13,800 --> 02:05:16,480
Oh yeah, OK.
You know, when do you think or

2445
02:05:16,480 --> 02:05:21,880
do you think that live shows are
going to be transitioning into

2446
02:05:21,880 --> 02:05:25,640
even smaller speakers, but many
more of them in this whole

2447
02:05:25,640 --> 02:05:27,920
immersive experience sort of
layout?

2448
02:05:28,520 --> 02:05:30,600
Oh, it's already happening, is
it?

2449
02:05:30,920 --> 02:05:33,760
I was just on the phone with my
friend just before we did this

2450
02:05:33,960 --> 02:05:36,360
podcast and he's a ISE in
Barcelona right now.

2451
02:05:36,800 --> 02:05:38,400
It's great systems or whatever
it's that's.

2452
02:05:38,400 --> 02:05:40,760
What I was talking about when I
got into immersive audio,

2453
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:42,720
because there's a lot of stuff
being shown there.

2454
02:05:42,720 --> 02:05:43,920
Yeah.
And he's doing a demo.

2455
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:46,040
He's he's really at the
forefront of that immersive

2456
02:05:46,040 --> 02:05:48,640
scene.
And he's, he makes in front of

2457
02:05:48,640 --> 02:05:51,600
our Anastasia.
He's called Eric Lutz and he is

2458
02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:53,920
all over.
And he's always, he's explaining

2459
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:55,720
it to me because I was wary of
it at the time.

2460
02:05:55,720 --> 02:05:58,960
Wary of it at the time.
I was like, I'm not sure this

2461
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:00,600
all this actually works, you
know?

2462
02:06:01,280 --> 02:06:03,760
But then another friend of mine,
John Gale, went out with Bjork,

2463
02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:05,480
you know, the Icelandic.
Yeah.

2464
02:06:05,480 --> 02:06:08,560
And he did a whole immersive
show, a whole immersive tour

2465
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:12,840
where where the hung like 12
hangs of, of linery across the

2466
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:16,720
front of the stage.
And I can see it working.

2467
02:06:16,720 --> 02:06:18,840
There's a do you know about
Clang?

2468
02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:20,720
That's like an Indian technology
that's immersive.

2469
02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:24,360
Yes, I do remember that, yeah.
So there's an app you can

2470
02:06:24,360 --> 02:06:25,720
actually download if you're
interested in that.

2471
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:27,480
Or the Clang app, it's got a
demo on it.

2472
02:06:27,960 --> 02:06:29,600
When you've got your own little
multi track and you can move

2473
02:06:29,600 --> 02:06:32,040
things around your head just in
your normal headphones.

2474
02:06:32,040 --> 02:06:34,320
It's very interesting and I
think it does.

2475
02:06:34,520 --> 02:06:40,960
I think it does improve the
experience of a show.

2476
02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:43,760
Yeah.
But only certain shows I don't.

2477
02:06:43,760 --> 02:06:45,680
I don't think Motörhead
Immersive would work, if you

2478
02:06:45,680 --> 02:06:47,880
know what I mean.
See, and I've heard both sides

2479
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:50,680
of it like I I haven't been to
the sphere in Las Vegas yet

2480
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:51,720
because.
It just doesn't.

2481
02:06:51,760 --> 02:06:53,960
Really work for me.
I have no interest in it

2482
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:58,320
whatsoever, but I've heard
people say that they went and

2483
02:06:58,320 --> 02:07:01,040
saw shows there and the sound
was incredible.

2484
02:07:01,320 --> 02:07:04,160
And then I've heard people say
it was ridiculous.

2485
02:07:04,160 --> 02:07:07,880
You know, it was, it was like
sitting in a little thing with,

2486
02:07:07,880 --> 02:07:11,000
you know, 1000 speakers around
the walls and they're all tiny

2487
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:13,480
little speakers and there's no
SPL whatsoever.

2488
02:07:13,480 --> 02:07:16,400
And you know it.
Just you could hear it and it

2489
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:20,200
sounded nice and pleasant, but
it didn't sound like a concert.

2490
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:23,440
I was, my wife was doing Lenny
Kravitz in the sphere for a

2491
02:07:23,440 --> 02:07:26,680
Delta Airlines corporate event.
And I was in Vegas at the time.

2492
02:07:26,680 --> 02:07:30,360
And I went to see it and I saw,
I saw the sound checks and

2493
02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:31,680
everything, too.
Yeah.

2494
02:07:31,680 --> 02:07:36,000
And, and this, this hollow point
PA system is all behind the

2495
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:37,920
screen.
And I was doing the rehearsals

2496
02:07:37,920 --> 02:07:39,560
for U2, actually for Claire
Brothers.

2497
02:07:39,560 --> 02:07:43,480
And we, we brought this system
in to their U2's band rehearsal

2498
02:07:43,480 --> 02:07:45,160
space in Dublin.
Yeah.

2499
02:07:45,160 --> 02:07:48,360
So I know all about the system.
And it takes 27 channels of

2500
02:07:48,360 --> 02:07:52,000
Dante to every single speaker
anyway.

2501
02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:55,520
But so Lori Quigley, I don't
know if you know, he's a

2502
02:07:55,520 --> 02:07:57,280
legendary front of House
engineer he makes.

2503
02:07:57,280 --> 02:07:59,000
Yeah, I know of him.
I don't know.

2504
02:07:59,280 --> 02:08:01,880
Yeah, so he's like, I don't, I
don't want any of this surround

2505
02:08:01,880 --> 02:08:04,000
sound shit.
I just want a left right PA,

2506
02:08:04,240 --> 02:08:05,200
right.
Yeah.

2507
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:08,400
Two hours later they got, you
know, there's a million people

2508
02:08:08,400 --> 02:08:12,840
with laptops trying to make this
this system a left right PA and

2509
02:08:13,000 --> 02:08:16,560
the the IT was amazing that
something that's supposed to be

2510
02:08:16,560 --> 02:08:22,880
built that took to draw your
attention only ever your image

2511
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:24,280
was always looking at the
screen.

2512
02:08:24,280 --> 02:08:27,080
There was no way of drawing the
image to the stage.

2513
02:08:27,400 --> 02:08:29,600
Yeah, that's what I hate.
That's what I.

2514
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:32,600
Hate the severe and I love.
I'm all about video and I'm not

2515
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:34,520
one of those audio guys that
hates video.

2516
02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:37,360
Yeah.
It's an it's an amazing

2517
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:40,800
experience to be sat in there,
but there's no point in the band

2518
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:44,280
being on stage at all.
Well, this is what I said when

2519
02:08:44,320 --> 02:08:47,640
and God bless them for doing it
and everything else.

2520
02:08:47,640 --> 02:08:51,840
But the U2 thing, when U2 was in
sphere at the beginning and

2521
02:08:52,000 --> 02:08:55,760
people were sending me videos
and stuff and I remember the

2522
02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:58,760
first video I got and I'm
looking and looking and looking

2523
02:08:58,760 --> 02:09:02,080
and I'm like, where's the stage?
Like where is Bono?

2524
02:09:02,240 --> 02:09:04,280
I can hear him singing, but
where is he?

2525
02:09:04,440 --> 02:09:07,240
I can't even find him.
It took me like 5 minutes to

2526
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:10,840
figure out where Bono was.
So, you know, it's it's wild,

2527
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:13,920
but.
Yeah, there's definitely nothing

2528
02:09:14,760 --> 02:09:18,960
audio or visually in the shows
I've seen there that draw your

2529
02:09:18,960 --> 02:09:23,840
attention to the people on
stage, which is kind of takes

2530
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:25,800
away from the from a concert
vibe to me.

2531
02:09:25,800 --> 02:09:27,360
I want to be in the same room as
the artist.

2532
02:09:27,360 --> 02:09:29,360
That's why I'm at a concert and
I still go to concerts.

2533
02:09:29,360 --> 02:09:31,440
I'm one of those rare people in
our industry, yeah, who still

2534
02:09:31,440 --> 02:09:33,520
enjoys going to concerts, right?
Yeah, me too.

2535
02:09:33,520 --> 02:09:35,480
Occasionally.
Not quite as much because I'm

2536
02:09:35,480 --> 02:09:38,480
more spoiled now and I want
someone to pick me up at my

2537
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:41,480
house, drop me off at front of
house, take me back out of there

2538
02:09:41,480 --> 02:09:42,960
before the crowd leaves, you
know?

2539
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:45,240
And that ain't going to happen,
so.

2540
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:49,720
But I still, the concert is all
about connection between the

2541
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:51,320
artist and the and the audience
to me.

2542
02:09:51,320 --> 02:09:55,680
I mean, the further away we
remove that, and the further

2543
02:09:55,680 --> 02:09:59,560
away we try to connect the
audience with technology, the

2544
02:09:59,560 --> 02:10:02,760
less need there is for artists,
the less need there is for the

2545
02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:05,440
music, you know?
Well, and I would say this,

2546
02:10:05,440 --> 02:10:11,040
that, you know, I think that
we're going that direction and

2547
02:10:11,040 --> 02:10:12,720
that's one thing I really don't
like.

2548
02:10:12,720 --> 02:10:16,440
Like I've heard people talking
about wearing special glasses

2549
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:18,600
and you're gonna have a blended
experience.

2550
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:22,240
A what do they call it?
Mixed media or something

2551
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:27,040
experience and I don't like that
like I want to see an artist

2552
02:10:27,040 --> 02:10:30,760
with some lights and APA system
and I want to hear it and I want

2553
02:10:30,760 --> 02:10:33,480
them to play real music.
I don't even like recorded music

2554
02:10:33,480 --> 02:10:36,800
during live shows and and click
tracks and all that stuff.

2555
02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:42,440
Like I, I like organic normal
guitars and amplifiers and drums

2556
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:47,920
music and I'd hate to see that
go away much more than it

2557
02:10:47,920 --> 02:10:50,640
already has.
So yeah, me too.

2558
02:10:50,640 --> 02:10:54,880
Sadly, Erin, I'm going to have
to run because I actually, we've

2559
02:10:54,880 --> 02:10:57,880
been going two hours.
Wow, you're an interesting guy.

2560
02:10:57,880 --> 02:10:59,280
I could talk to you for another
2.

2561
02:10:59,280 --> 02:10:59,760
Hours.
I could.

2562
02:10:59,760 --> 02:11:01,320
I was enjoying that, actually.
Yeah.

2563
02:11:01,440 --> 02:11:03,760
I don't know whether we actually
said anything that anybody else

2564
02:11:03,760 --> 02:11:05,960
would want to hear, but no, I've
enjoyed the conversation.

2565
02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:09,920
All the questions and stuff that
I had for you and we just went

2566
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:11,480
off and talked for a couple
hours.

2567
02:11:11,480 --> 02:11:13,600
So no, I appreciate it very
much.

2568
02:11:13,600 --> 02:11:16,360
And we'll have you back on
anytime and maybe actually get

2569
02:11:16,360 --> 02:11:18,160
to some of the questions.
Yeah.

2570
02:11:18,760 --> 02:11:20,040
It was great talking to you.
Thanks.

2571
02:11:20,040 --> 02:11:21,560
Thanks for having a young person
on too.

2572
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:23,680
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for doing it.

2573
02:11:23,680 --> 02:11:25,560
I appreciate it very much.
Thanks.

2574
02:11:25,600 --> 02:11:26,880
Buddy, thanks.
Take care.