#328 - Chris Musgrave - Exploring the Journey of an Audio Engineer

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And you know, look, I'm an audio
guy, OK?

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That's what I did.
And I love audio.

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But I also believe now that, you
know, this whole I only work

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with this system kind of thing
is like really?

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Because I'm pretty convinced I
could blindfold a lot of

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engineers and if I just ran the
system flat, you're not telling

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me what's playing.
There's just not that big a

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secrets in technology anymore.
You know, even in lighting,

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there's no real secrets.
And here's the other thing.

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We're so many years into this
that every single tech designer,

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what have you, has almost now
worked for every iteration of

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whatever competition there was.
So the pool of tech is so

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incestuous at this point that,
again, there can't be secrets

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because this guy was here for 20
years.

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Now he's here or he's finishing
his career out there, but he's

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still bringing what he did there
to here.

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And it's been that way for so
many decades now that it's just

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what it is.
Thanks again for joining me here

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on Gears of Gear Today.
Today on the podcast, we're

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joined by a gentleman whose
career has helped shape the

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landscape of modern live
production.

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Chris Musgrave is the Director
of the Live Production Summit,

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Chief Innovation Officer at OSA
International, and President of

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Tour Pro International, 3 roles
that together reflect his deep

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influence on every side of this
industry, from producing global

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tours and large scale events to
fostering collaboration Through

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the Live Production Summit,
Chris has spent more than 30

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years connecting people, ideas
and technology.

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He's worked with artists like
Dave Chappelle, Limp Bizkit and

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Kidz Bop, always pushing
creativity and innovation

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forward.
I'm excited to talk about

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Chris's incredible journey, the
evolution of live events, and

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what's next for this ever
changing industry.

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So please join me and welcome
Chris Musgrave.

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Hello, Chris.
Hello.

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How are you?
I am stellar you.

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I'm not quite stellar, but I'm
pretty OK.

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I I'm pretty OK right now.
So I think I'm getting stellar.

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As the day goes on, it's
becoming more stellar.

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You know, I woke up today and
you don't know my history, but

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I've tried the alternative of
not waking up and I have found

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that waking up is pretty
stellar.

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So what's that mean?
Well, I've had I've experienced

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multiple heart attacks and died
a couple times.

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Oh.
Jesus, really.

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Yeah, yeah.
Wow, so you were not pronounced

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dead, but your heart just
stopped for a?

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Second, I flat lined.
I flat lined a couple times.

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Wow.
There was one time.

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The the worst.
I, well, there were two that

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were really bad.
One was, well, they were all

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kind of involved in the music.
I mean, one started on the golf

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course with Dickie Beck's.
My first one.

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My second one actually, I kind
of drove myself in.

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The third one happened while I
was on tour with Fuel and my 4th

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1 was kind of at tour Link as a
matter of fact, which is the

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predecessor name of what is now
Live Production Summit.

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Yeah, wow.
And so you didn't get the, you

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didn't get the the warning after
the first one.

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You just had to keep, you know?
It so unfortunately now I know a

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lot about this shit and it's
mine came in quick succession

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because it's a cascading effect
I couldn't have done first.

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I'm the first to admit I smoked
for a lot of years and I'm a

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product of the Sunset Strip in
the 80s and this industry.

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So you know, it was not a
healthy lifestyle.

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So I speed it up.
But it was going to happen to me

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anyways.
And what I found and learned

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through the genetics of it is
that when, if it's going to

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happen genetically, it's going
to happen like my first heart

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attack, my cholesterol came back
unreadable.

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And then we got it into the six
hundreds and the four hundreds

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and the three.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I haven't heard of anything
that.

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Exactly.
Right.

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So I had complete blockage
everywhere was terrible.

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And it was such a cycle that my
body was creating it at such a

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breakneck pace.
My first one was I was 3031

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years old for my first one.
And so yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I've played all those reindeer
games and I recommend everybody

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you know try one on before you
commit because they hurt.

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Well, you know, I pay close
attention to that.

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My dad died at 52 and you know,
I've beat him on on his life

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journey.
I've passed that.

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And but you know, I pay a lot of
attention.

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I go to the cardiologist and I'm
a wimp.

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Like I'm not one of those people
who pushes until you hit the.

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Wall I'm you know, you don't
back early, you don't realize

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it, but I, I also learned that,
you know, when your body's

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trying to, it will actually tell
something.

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Your mind you're conscious will
realize there's something very

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wrong.
My father has severe histories,

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multiple strokes, survived five
way bypass, a stent after the

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bypass and he he's still alive
at 82.

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Yeah.
So we we do have a history of

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going through them and and
surviving them.

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I have turned down a bypass
every time.

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So I just have stents only
because the technology and

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cardiac is leaps and bounds
every year.

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It's amazing what they can do
now.

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Some of the drugs like Repatha I
would say made a huge difference

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in my life.
I use it.

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Repatha is an amazing, amazing
product.

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It's like Drano for cholesterol.
It's incredible how well it

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works and you don't have to stay
on it.

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You use it for X amount of time
and then you're off and but it

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is amazing.
It's expensive but amazing.

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Yeah, yeah, I, I use it and it,
it's funny because I have pretty

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good cholesterol.
I have actually really good

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cholesterol.
Why are you on?

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And because I have some minor
blockage in lower.

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Sure, they're trying to.
They're trying to clean it up.

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Yeah, and he's just like, you
know, if I can get you to 0 bad

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cholesterol, I'm going to get
you to 0.

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Well, you know, one of the one
of the crazy things is, is you

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think it's the big arteries,
right?

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When really it's not.
It's all the little spider

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arteries that when they clog,
there's nothing you can do.

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Yeah, they're too small to
stand.

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So we've, we've been paying
attention to that and, and I'm

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good like, I mean, I'm, I'm
totally fine.

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My cholesterol is like, I think
it was 22 or something, my LDL

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last time I looked at it.
And so I'll probably be off

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Repatha in the next month or
two.

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I got to go see my cardiologist
in November but.

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Oh, we started that on.
It's not preventative for me.

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Yeah, yeah, it's wild.
Well, that's age, right?

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Like, weird.
Definitely.

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I'm reminding everybody we have
been for some time now at a

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generational cusp, you know, so
it's, you know, everybody's

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like, why is everybody, it's
like we're at that cusp.

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It's it's that time of that
generation.

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Too many friends of ours are.
Falling off.

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Checking out yeah, too many, too
many friends and and you know, a

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lot of them younger than me and
and that's depressing.

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You know, I live just as hard as
them for a long time and.

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And then stopped.
But yeah, I mean, I it just

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feels like a little bit of every
one of these podcasts ends up

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talking about.
Sure.

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Well.
TRT are you?

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I think when you when you go
past 50, mortality creeps into

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your conversations more and
more, especially at a cusp like

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this when, when so much like
that's happening.

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So I I think that's just normal.
Everybody starts, you know, I've

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touched mortality and I'll say
this that it, it changed my

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outlook on everything.
I was very lucky younger.

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I didn't have an addictive
personality other than say maybe

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a good time and you know what
have you.

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But I, I, my, the hardest thing
ever to quit was cigarettes.

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Actually, everything else I
could walk away from when I was.

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A lot of people say that, a lot
of people say that.

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Cigarettes was the the hardest
thing.

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Harder than heroin?
Oh yeah, you know, But look, I I

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dabbled in everything when I was
younger on the strip and

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everything else.
And I understand how some of

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those were really enticing to
people and I could really see

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how they got a problem with it.
I luckily just didn't have that

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gene that made me neither fall
off into it forever, but I was

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definitely surrounded by many
and lost many to it.

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For 50 years, ETC has made a
name for itself in the world of

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entertainment technology.
You can find ETC products in

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buildings of every size across
the entire globe.

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Broadway shows, rock concerts,
sports stadiums, outdoor parks,

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TV studios and convention
centres, you name it.

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They have all trusted ETC to
make their spaces beautiful and

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safe.
Many of these spaces include

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rigging systems to keep them
running smoothly and safely.

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Fortunately, ETC rigging offers
a range of hoists and controls

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to accommodate the unique needs
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budgets.
ETCS, motorized hoists and hoist

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control systems raise theatre
technology including stage

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curtains, lighting equipment,
backdrops, projection screens,

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and more.
And the recent addition of

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Prodigy Balance, a new
counterweight rigging solution

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for loads up to 1200 lbs, brings
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for safe, user friendly rigging.
If you need backstage rigging

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that is easy to learn and safe
for students and volunteers to

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use, Prodigy Balance could be
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ETC is known for its customer
support and 24/7 365

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availability, but now employees
have even more of a personal

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stake in maintaining that
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become 100% employee owned.
Each person building the rigging

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systems, developing the control
software and answering support

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calls is actually an owner at
ETC.

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Outstanding support, Reliable
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technologies.
This is the foundation of

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excellence ETC has built over
the past 50 years and they plan

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to deliver more in the next 50.
For the latest ETC products and

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installation news, visit
etcconnect.com.

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Well, you know what else too
like for me?

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I grew up in Western Canada and,
you know, in relative poverty.

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I was a musician, a working
musician and you know, a bag of

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weed for 1/4 ounce of weed was
like 50 or 60 bucks and and blow

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was like untouchable.
It was like over $200 a gram I

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think.
And so you couldn't afford to be

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a druggie, you know, you just
couldn't afford to.

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I guess on the strip it was kind
of, it was all just kind of a by

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product of the environment in LA
and I grew up in the Malibu

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Mountains, which made it just,
you know, so it was kind of a by

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product there.
So it wasn't really a, you know,

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and I didn't grow up rich by any
sense of the imagination.

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My father's an internationally
known artist and my mom was in

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real estate and real estate
management.

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But it wasn't.
It was just, again, it was

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everywhere you went, every party
you went, every club you went.

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It was kind of just a normal
thing.

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Sounds like a sounds like a fun
life until.

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I you know.
You kind of had to put the

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brakes on.
I think it's interesting, you

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know, all of us, I think in this
industry have led an interesting

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life.
I consider myself very lucky.

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As a child I I moved to
Australia.

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As a child I visited Chichenitsa
and climbed the pyramids.

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As a child I went.
I started travelling the world

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with my parents very young.
My dad had an idea that the only

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way to truly understand a
culture was to immerse yourself

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in it.
Not to visit it, not to look at

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it, not to judge it, go live in
it.

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So we lived in multiple places,
and that's how he spent his

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money, was taking us around the
world.

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So, you know, generally when
people go, oh, you know, that's

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the best place in the world.
All they just told me is they've

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never been anywhere else.
Yeah, you know, no, that's

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amazing.
I, you know, I, I'm jealous.

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Like I didn't start travelling
until I did it for work, you

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know, so.
Yeah, I think I was on my first.

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00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,920
I remember on Pan Am Airlines
you when you still walked across

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00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,560
the tarmac at LAX and they used
to give kids the certificate for

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00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,360
passing the equator and you
could sit in the pilot's seat,

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00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,480
you know, at 30,000 feet and all
that.

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00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,440
And, you know, I played all the
way by everybody smoked on

231
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,160
board, you know what I mean?
And what have you.

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00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,640
And so like the first trips to
Bavaria or the 1st trips to

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00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,080
Australia in the early and mid
70s were, you know, an

234
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,760
interesting kind of adventure
back then.

235
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,720
So cool.
That's so cool.

236
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,120
I hope you realize how fortunate
you were growing up like that.

237
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,880
You know I do.
Now and you know when I have my.

238
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,080
Son, I've tried to expose him to
lots.

239
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,720
And lots of.
Travel and stuff.

240
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,040
He's 21 now, but I mean, he's,
he's been many, many places so

241
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,480
well.
Something with my daughter, you

242
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,520
know, so if you get a, if you
have a young child and you can't

243
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,760
travel, this is something I just
came up with, but it, it worked

244
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,440
and my daughter's 27 now.
Anyways, if you blindfold your

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00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,960
child, spin a globe and let them
just touch their finger wherever

246
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,400
it lands, look up whatever the
most popular local dishes to

247
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,800
that region.
Then go on an adventure and find

248
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,160
those ingredients.
And what you're going to do 9

249
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,120
times out of 10 is meet somebody
from close to that region.

250
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,840
Otherwise they wouldn't have
those ingredients.

251
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,400
And you're going to talk to them
and tell them why.

252
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,800
And then while you're making it,
listen to local music from that

253
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,240
area.
And there used to be something,

254
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:05,440
there used to be something
called Microsoft Encarta, which

255
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,720
was basically a digital version
of encyclopedias that you could

256
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,880
watch videos and see.
And I believe heavily in the

257
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,880
five senses being the most
immersive.

258
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,560
So in that moment, if you could
be smelling that culture and

259
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:22,800
tasting that culture and hearing
sounds from that culture, it

260
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,120
makes the immersive idea of
experiencing that culture as

261
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,120
close as you can get a little
more powerful.

262
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,920
And not all the dishes are good
and not all of them sucked.

263
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,640
And some of them were amazing
and some of it was interesting.

264
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,680
But that's kind of the idea,
right?

265
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,480
Is it's about the experience?
I friggin love that Chris.

266
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,880
Like that is such a cool idea.
Like anyone with young kids,

267
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,840
what a great idea.
Well, it world way, yeah, like

268
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,240
one day a week.
Let's get you off Tick tock.

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00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,200
Yeah, well, it's, you know, it's
not just for the kids though,

270
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,560
because we have so many parents
that know absolutely fucking

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00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,120
nothing about this planet they
live on that it's a great way

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00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,040
for them to go, oh shit, I
didn't know that.

273
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,360
Or come across a meal that even
they go, wow.

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00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,640
And all of a sudden they're
seeking out those restaurants

275
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,440
now realizing, wait, this place
has got, you know, it's like

276
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,360
people think Ethiopia that they
there's actually some great

277
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,240
dishes out of Ethiopia and
Africa and you know what I mean?

278
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,160
And Sri Lanka and this and that.
Artistry in Motion When it's

279
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,560
time to make a moment
unforgettable, Artistry in

280
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,640
Motion delivers.
Since 1994, they've been the go

281
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,120
to source for top tier confetti
and streamer special effects,

282
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,000
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explosive show stopping

283
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,440
experiences.
From concerts and TV production

284
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,240
to major sporting events and
theme parks, they bring the wow

285
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factor with precision and
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286
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287
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288
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Their team doesn't just supply
confetti, they collaborate with

289
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show designers, event planners
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290
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291
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,400
Want to take your next event to
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292
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Hit them up at.
At artistryinmotion.com and make

293
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,120
memories happen.
I, I had AI had a guitar store,

294
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,600
a music store in Edmonton,
Canada.

295
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,200
And there was a, an Ethiopian
restaurant right next door to

296
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,080
me.
And so, you know, why not to

297
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,560
like, and I found it weird
because as a young person, like

298
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,920
I think I was 22 or something,
when I had this music store, all

299
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,760
I knew about Ethiopians,
Ethiopians is that they were all

300
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,160
starving to death and thin as
rails.

301
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,120
And, you know, they didn't eat
anything.

302
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,720
They they were starving.
So I couldn't believe that there

303
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,200
was actually a restaurant.
Like I'm like, hey, you know

304
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,360
where you need to go.
Ethiopia, I hate to say the same

305
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,240
analogy, but there's people here
in the United States that are

306
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,120
starving.
And if that's the only news you

307
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,960
saw, it would be as if there's
no steakhouse down the street.

308
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,120
You know what I mean?
It's true.

309
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,600
It's it's about what narratives
being pushed for what reason?

310
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,720
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, just, you know,

311
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:12,680
again, Western Canada in the 70s
slash early 80s, you know, my

312
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,000
exposure to Ethiopia was, you
know, the, whatever it was

313
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,200
called United Way or whatever,
the commercials on television

314
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,960
saying support.
Kids in Ethiopia, again, their

315
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,640
narrative, right?
Right, right.

316
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,520
So all I knew is there was flies
and skinny kids.

317
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,120
Right, because they shot these.
Little skinny kids that were

318
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:34,040
starving and there were flies
all over their head and stuff.

319
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:36,600
Yeah, it was just terrible.
It was the narrative, yeah.

320
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,240
So then I met the guy next to me
at this restaurant and I used to

321
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,880
eat there every couple of days.
I mean, he'd make me some really

322
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,840
interesting things.
And I knew some fat Ethiopians.

323
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,040
They exist, yeah.
That's funny.

324
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:50,480
That's funny.
Yeah.

325
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,800
I love that.
Wow.

326
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,960
What a what a cool upbringing.
So at what point I, I mean, I

327
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,480
guess the fact that your dad,
you said he was an international

328
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,800
artist or something like that,
or a renowned artist.

329
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,760
So art being music or art?
Being no art, being actually

330
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,240
fine art.
My father's a painter and a

331
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,360
sculptist has been his whole
life.

332
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:15,080
Wow, interesting.
And he yeah, yeah, yeah, he's,

333
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,440
it's interesting.
You know, my first trip to a

334
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,480
recording studio happened to be
The Beach Boys studio because

335
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,120
they they live close by and they
had a studio in Santa Monica.

336
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:26,000
So I got to visit that My dad
had done stuff.

337
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,760
And I remember at one point he
came home.

338
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,200
He goes, you know, I was at this
weird meeting today in his six

339
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,000
foot blonde in this shaggy
looking guy.

340
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,800
Have you ever heard of these
thing called the the rhythmics

341
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,040
or something?
And I was like, your rhythmics?

342
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,560
And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

343
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,600
That's it.
I go to Annie Lennox and Dave's.

344
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What are you doing with them?

345
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,880
Oh, we're just doing this thing.
OK.

346
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,560
And he did album covers for,
like, The Jets.

347
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,680
And interestingly enough,
there's a painting in my living

348
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,960
room now that we nicknamed
Dwayne that when EDA Peach came

349
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,560
out from The Allman Brothers, my
dad bought it, and he just put

350
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,280
it on on repeat.
And he painted arguably one of

351
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,840
my favorite paintings from him
again that we called Dwayne.

352
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,240
And years and years later, while
I'm in Sarasota working with

353
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,480
Dickie Betts, and Dickie's
looking around the artwork, and

354
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,840
Dickie goes, man, I just really
like your dad's artwork.

355
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,160
And I told the old man, and the
old man goes, well, shit, if I

356
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,960
can ever do anything for him.
So all of a sudden, it turns out

357
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,840
my dad's doing artwork for one
of Dickie's albums that he's

358
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,360
recording in my studio.
And this is one of the best

359
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,360
stories I should tell you how my
dad is.

360
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,360
And so Dickie's on the phone
with my dad going, Lee, I love

361
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:26,720
it.
What?

362
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,560
What do I owe you?
And my dad goes, Yeah, Well,

363
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,760
Dickie, you know, if the album's
worth the shit, send me a copy.

364
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,360
Jesus, that's incredible.
That is so.

365
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,600
Cool and Dicky of course, took
it as it was meant, you know,

366
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,560
tongue in cheek and wait.
OK, no pressure.

367
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,160
Yeah, that is so cool.
What a great story.

368
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,880
Yeah, which Dicky had an
incredible personality and sense

369
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,960
of humor anyway, so.
Yeah, I was never around them.

370
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,000
Dickie was an amazing, amazing
human being in many ways beyond

371
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,520
even the music.
Like a lot of people don't know

372
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,440
that when I had my heart attack
and basically was losing my

373
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,480
studio, everything, you know,
250,000 in medical bills and

374
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,000
everything was screwed up.
There's a lot of people that

375
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,320
don't know that Dickie actually
went pre emptive and paid my

376
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,840
bills for six months and he
actually bought all my heart

377
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,440
meds for the next year.
And when I didn't have the

378
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,080
studio anymore, he called one
day and he goes look the the bus

379
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,200
leaves tomorrow 1.
And I go, you, you already have

380
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,880
a tour manager and everything
else, what am I going to do?

381
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,320
He goes.
That's not what I said, was it?

382
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,120
The bus leaves at one and he put
me on payroll and put me back on

383
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:32,080
my feet.
That is so amazing.

384
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,160
I love lots of that man that
people do not know how much he

385
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,400
does quietly or did quietly and
you know the that type of person

386
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,240
that he was is Dickie was A and
he also taught me almost more

387
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,920
about this industry than most.
You know, and I mean, too many

388
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,800
artists are not like that, you
know, too many artists are, are

389
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,640
really like COVID I think
brought out the IT kind of

390
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,200
showed you the truth and the
bad.

391
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,400
Yeah.
Although just.

392
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,400
Completely took care of their
people.

393
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,320
I'll push back that.
I'll push back on that a little

394
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,680
bit because while they could be
amazing musicians, right, not

395
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,960
all of them are incredibly
business, business savvy enough

396
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,280
and some of the hoops to jump
through to get those funds were

397
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,360
confusing in many ways.
So there were some artists that

398
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:24,120
I know that wish they would have
learned how or had somebody that

399
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,120
could have navigated that better
for them.

400
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,320
So I can't lump them all into
the same boat there because we

401
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,160
can't expect them to have the
business savvy to have figured

402
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,840
out.
However, we do know some that

403
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,160
took shit loads of money and
still didn't pay any crew

404
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,800
members and you know that came.
Those are the ones I'm talking

405
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,680
about.
Yeah, that didn't come out on

406
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,760
some and and they deserve the
backlash they got on that front.

407
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,600
Yeah, I mean, I, I know a
particular band who didn't take

408
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:49,400
care of.
Someone.

409
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,240
I think we all know one or two
that we can.

410
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,320
For 30 or 40 years.
And he ended up pretty hurting,

411
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,280
you know, like I actually gave
money out of my own pocket at

412
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,160
one point.
And, you know, we're talking

413
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,280
artists that are worth, you
know, hundreds of millions of

414
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,120
dollars, you know, so it's, it
was really, really sad to see

415
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,880
some people.
Just play artists that size.

416
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,400
Yeah.
The artist that size that I, I

417
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,080
refer to them as the one
percenters when they could take

418
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,280
care of their whole crew and
it's basically equal to a bar

419
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,640
tab to them.
And they don't.

420
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,360
Yeah.
Then yeah, they've they've made

421
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,520
a statement there.
No bueno, No sure.

422
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,080
So how did you how did you get
from traveling the world with

423
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,560
your family to to finding your
way into the, I guess sound?

424
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,560
Kind of a felonious start.
Didn't everyone in this industry

425
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,240
at that time right?
Me and a couple of friends broke

426
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,960
into the Rainbow Bar and Grill.
Oh, that's a very.

427
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,120
Interesting late at night
through a window and drank a

428
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,800
bunch of alcohol and puked
everywhere and this was back in

429
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,680
1987.
And Mario the owner opened up

430
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,760
the next morning and he wasn't
thrilled and my friends ran

431
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:55,480
scared.
Whatever.

432
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,880
And I didn't run.
And it's a small area at the

433
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,080
time, right.
Mario actually fed me breakfast

434
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,080
and talked to me.
And it turned out he knew who my

435
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,520
dad was.
And he's like, well, what the

436
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,960
Hell's all this about?
I'm like, man, this, this is the

437
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,440
rainbow.
This is legendary.

438
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,560
You know what I mean?
He goes, and you want in this?

439
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,080
I said, yeah.
He actually facilitated me

440
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,960
getting a job at Gazzarri's.
Really.

441
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,640
Yeah.
After you ripped them off.

442
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,440
Well, I didn't RIP them off.
I drank some alcohol and and,

443
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,960
you know, whatever we didn't
damage, but nobody was doing, it

444
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,040
was a shrine test.
Nobody was going to damage the

445
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,480
place and anything like that,
you know, And it wasn't, you got

446
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,960
to, you know, you're old enough
to understand it was a different

447
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,360
time back then.
There was a difference of like

448
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,680
going into like destroy and
steal from somebody.

449
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,920
And there was then there was
just the young you're fucking

450
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,800
around, you know, doing bad
things and whatever.

451
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,560
But yeah, no, no real malicious
intent, you know what I mean?

452
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,320
It was a different time.
So, yeah, but yeah, so you know,

453
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:54,160
I started in basically in 87 in
LA and I've been in it one way

454
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760
or another ever since.
I I've dropped off the road and

455
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,800
done studios here and there for
bits of time and then back to

456
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,160
the road and then off the road.
And but it's.

457
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,520
But Lazaris, what did, what did
you do?

458
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,200
He got you a game.
First thing was fucking clean

459
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,480
stickers off of walls and
bathrooms and clean XLR cables.

460
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,280
I mean, start at the bottom.
And you know, it's one of the

461
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,920
things now, like I started the
Future Forward program several

462
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,880
years ago and the Future Forward
program is based around LP's

463
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,280
because I felt that we can't
bitch about the quality of Labor

464
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,120
coming up if we're not part of
their education.

465
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,640
And I understand that LP's is
kind of an executive level kind

466
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,600
of event.
So I wanted to get a way for

467
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,160
students to attend LP's for
free, students and educators to

468
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,440
come for free.
So I started the future

469
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,360
Forwarder program.
But one of the things I teach

470
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:41,240
them because they all go, well,
I want to be a tour manager.

471
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,000
I want to be a tour manager.
I want to be, you know,

472
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:44,480
everything's got manager behind
it.

473
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,920
And I always ask, I go, well,
how much time have you spent in

474
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,720
audio?
And they go none, OK, How much

475
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,720
in video?
None.

476
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,440
How much in lighting?
None.

477
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,240
It's like, well, how are you
going to tell me you're going to

478
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,960
manage these departments when
you have no fundamentals of any

479
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,400
of them?
You can't manage them.

480
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,280
And I said, so you got to give
that up.

481
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,920
I said, you got to go say spend
time.

482
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,640
And I said tour management isn't
something that you necessarily

483
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,680
aspire to want to be.
It's something that ends up

484
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,440
being bestowed upon you, so to
speak.

485
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,280
Especially when I came up, as
you know, I knew how to do

486
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,520
audio.
So it was kind of like, well,

487
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,480
you know, that time period,
there was a time period was

488
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,920
like, let's remove the two and
pay one person just a little bit

489
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,880
more to wear both hats kind of.
But now, you know, I advise that

490
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,840
when you spend time in different
departments, you're going to

491
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,040
find out which one you actually
find synergy with.

492
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,880
And you may find out screwed.
I don't want to be a tour

493
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,320
manager.
When you find out what it really

494
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,120
is.
And you may fall in love with

495
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,440
lighting or fall in love in
audio and that becomes kind of

496
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,560
your your stick, if you will,
you know, and you kind of then

497
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,920
realize I'm, I'm not going on to
become a tour manager.

498
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:47,200
A tour manager requires such
diverse skill sets that you

499
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,680
can't just get because some of
it you can't get without

500
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,520
failing.
We never learned from winning,

501
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,600
right?
Most tour managers learn and

502
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,160
know how to do certain shit
because they got bit in the ass

503
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,440
by it once before.
So it takes that time in to kind

504
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,160
of, you know, have that muscle
memory and also the to see those

505
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,920
red flags coming and be able to
read them correctly, if you

506
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,200
will.
Well, and sometimes you're just

507
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,680
babysitting pop stars.
Well, we call those Rd.

508
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,400
managers.
There's a different thing, Rd.

509
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,400
manager, tour manager, different
things, you know what I mean?

510
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,360
So, well, everybody's got their
terminology, I guess, but it's

511
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:28,040
kind of, look, you're a
therapist, you're a husband,

512
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,160
you're a wife, you're a father,
you're this, you're that, you're

513
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,800
a counselor, you're a
psychotherapist, you're an

514
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,800
accountant, you're a diplomatic,
whatever negotiator.

515
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,720
You're all of the above in that,
and you know that model's

516
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,880
changing somewhat now that
they've now just created a

517
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,600
person for every single thing.
And yet we still wonder why

518
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,120
prices are raising.
It's very compartmentalized.

519
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,440
Now.
Well, and every one of them has

520
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,920
a, a price point.
Like when you think about back

521
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,400
what it used to be, it used to
be that there was a manager and

522
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,320
an artist and an attorney when
they needed one just to look

523
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,800
over the record deal or whatever
else.

524
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,760
But offers would come to
management, management would

525
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,800
talk to artists.
Then all of a sudden we broke

526
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,720
out and we needed an agent, and
the agent now needed 10%, but

527
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,760
the manager wasn't going to drop
his fee of 1015%.

528
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,000
Now $0.25 is on the dollar.
Then we found out neither one of

529
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,040
them are good at accounting.
We had to get a business manager

530
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,960
and they want a minimum of 5%.
Now we're $0.30 out of the

531
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,280
dollar, right?
And then you start looking at

532
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,080
the rest of it, it's like, OK,
that $0.30 is gone before we've

533
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,760
paid taxes, salaries, anything.
And now there's all these other

534
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,120
accoutrements charging.
And yet without this pragmatic

535
00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,240
approach, we're all saying,
well, we've got nothing to do

536
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,960
with ticket prices or any of
that.

537
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,040
And well, you know, everybody is
just somebody else's line item.

538
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,040
And when we have these different
departments just throw line

539
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,160
items in of like lighting those.
I need all this to make it work

540
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,840
great and good.
Audio does the same shit.

541
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,200
Video does the same shit.
None of them talk to each other.

542
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,720
They just submit what they want.
They're all Toys-R-Us kids,

543
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,600
right?
Every front of house guy feels

544
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,720
he needs half a truck of a rack
gear to run a show.

545
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,080
You know, I mean, everybody
needs.

546
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,360
So then they throw it all and
then the, you know, the group

547
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:10,800
and the TM put it all together
and go, well, based upon our

548
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,800
expenses and based upon our
guarantees, you know, this is

549
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,920
what it's going to be.
And all of a sudden tickets, you

550
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,440
know, and I get that there is
systemic greed in the industry

551
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,720
when it comes to tickets, but to
say that we've got nothing to do

552
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,920
with it, No, let's be, let's be
honest with ourselves.

553
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,160
We absolutely have something to
do with it when we're throwing

554
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,080
the production that we are at
it, you know, and the industry

555
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,120
did come full circle from let's
call it The Allman Brothers or

556
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,360
the Grateful Dead.
And I'm not trying to be genre

557
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,080
specific, but they make great
points at this that they started

558
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,040
with please record our shows and
hand it around because they

559
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,560
understood the only place they
really made money was off the

560
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,680
live show.
They didn't really make shit off

561
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,800
the records, you know what I
mean?

562
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,880
It been the the letting tapers
record the show and trade.

563
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,800
It was just a business card to
get more people to come to their

564
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,360
show and buy merchandise.
And it went full circle that

565
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,840
here we are again with artists
going we don't make shit off the

566
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,200
records or our music.
We only make it off the live

567
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,720
show.
So then all of a sudden we saw

568
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,320
the introduction of the 360 deal
in these companies that now want

569
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,960
a piece of touring, right?
And then we'll give you a flat

570
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,640
fee and we'll take the rest.
You know what I mean?

571
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,560
Because now they're it's the
last bastion of where there's

572
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,040
money still on the fork, you
know, if you will that.

573
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,040
So I think we could be a little
more pragmatic in that approach

574
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,880
sometimes, you know, rather than
just every department out for

575
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,760
themselves kind of.
You know, it's always drove me a

576
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,000
bit crazy, even though I've
always been on the equipment

577
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:41,200
supply side for the most part.
You know, do we really need 1000

578
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,080
moving lights on every show?
Do we really need, you know,

579
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,480
1.9mm video screens when the
audience is 50 feet away and

580
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,200
can't tell the difference
between that and 3.9?

581
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,120
You know, do we really need all
of these things to like, I

582
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,520
remember standing next to a
lighting designer one time and I

583
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,120
won't say who it was, but he
said, you know, is this the

584
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,640
Model B?
I'm sure I specified the Model C

585
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,400
and I'm making this up and, and
I said, I said, well, you know,

586
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,920
the Model C wasn't fully
available yet.

587
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,200
And really, the only difference
is this 1 little wrinkle.

588
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,720
Well, I don't know if I can do
my show with the Model B.

589
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,120
Yeah.
And you know, like that kind of

590
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,880
weird stuff.
Like, to me, you got to remember

591
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,560
the fan in the seat.
Sure.

592
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,080
The the kid in the seat who's.
Just button seat doesn't know.

593
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,080
They don't know.
And look at the the day of the

594
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,240
the day of the audio file is
long gone.

595
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,040
I mean, look, basically now
we're, we're the smiles or cries

596
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,640
of a Friday or Saturday night
that that that's what we are,

597
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,400
right?
Nobody's intently going in on.

598
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,600
I don't know about the
compression they got on the

599
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,280
snare.
And if they do, it's a wannabe

600
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,320
audio guy.
But the numbers of audio files

601
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,080
are way down because everybody's
yelling at each other.

602
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,960
They're on their phones.
It's background music to life

603
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,160
and a reason to engage in a, in
a group activity kind of thing.

604
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,520
And I'm not saying the music is
not important.

605
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,680
Of course it is.
That's why they're there.

606
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,320
It's why we're all here.
But I think that hyper focus is

607
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,320
being manipulated a little bit
for a narrative again.

608
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,840
And I, you know, I think true
artist.

609
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,000
You know who taught me that was
a club owner when I was selling

610
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,640
nightclub lighting in the early,
no late 80s.

611
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,000
And I was trying to convince
this guy to add this one wrinkle

612
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,320
that was going to cost him an
extra 20 grand.

613
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,200
And he said, Marcel, let me ask
you a question.

614
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,880
And I said, what?
And he said if I add that light

615
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,680
for 20 grand, how many more
drinks am I going to sell on a

616
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,600
Friday night?
And and I said probably none.

617
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,160
And he goes then why the fuck
are you trying to sell me a

618
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,760
$20,000 add on like I don't need
it.

619
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,520
It isn't going to make a stick a
difference.

620
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,120
It's not going to make me that
much better than the club down

621
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,160
the road.
Get the fuck out of here.

622
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,120
Well, so it's, you know, it's
interesting if you were to do

623
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,600
and 1st off, I despise exit
surveys and I'll explain why.

624
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,920
Exit surveys are very
antiquated.

625
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,240
Look, because what you're doing,
and they're dangerous for that

626
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,960
matter, what you're doing is
you're asking somebody upon

627
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,240
exiting to bring up to you what
they didn't like and then you're

628
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,120
sending them away.
So their last thought about the

629
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,360
experience is what they didn't
like and then you send them off.

630
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,320
That's a terrible model.
But when you talk to people

631
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,320
really what irks them at events,
it's not so much the

632
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:36,560
entertainment as much as it is
the $15 water, the $80 parking,

633
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,000
you know, the, this, the, that,
whatever that all again, it ends

634
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,920
up being subcontracted,
compartmentalized out and

635
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,760
squeezed.
There's an old saying of don't

636
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,640
leave anything on the table.
And I, I, that it always rubs me

637
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,120
the wrong way.
It's like, look, you know,

638
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,640
really good business is a
byproduct of good relationships,

639
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,720
in my opinion, You know what I
mean?

640
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,840
And we, you don't have to
squeeze everything.

641
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,880
You can give a little more and
go cumulative over grab.

642
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,680
And then when I hear, well, they
don't have to buy it and it's

643
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,120
like, well, that's kind of a
ridiculous response.

644
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,560
You know what, have you just
lowered it and sold them all

645
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,440
out.
You'd, you'd actually make more

646
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,080
money.
You, you paid the truck this

647
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,680
shit in here and then you hike
it up and how much are you

648
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,480
trucking out it?
It's like I used to tell the the

649
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,160
younger acts all the time.
Don't put a fucking date on your

650
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,200
T-shirt.
And they go why?

651
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,280
And I go because I guarantee
you're going to go home with

652
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,440
1000 shirts with that fucking
date on it.

653
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,400
And then what?
Good point, yeah.

654
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,600
Don't do it.
Yeah.

655
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,440
You know, unless you know your
merch numbers are good and you

656
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,040
can walk that fine line, you
know, I mean of putting your

657
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,480
dates, you're, you're going to
end up with some of those shirts

658
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,720
that then you're going to pay to
bring them out with the new

659
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,600
shirts next year and try and
sell them at discounted.

660
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,000
You know what's going to happen?
They're going to buy the

661
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,360
discounted 1, not the new one.
And then you're in that rut.

662
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,040
It's a cycle that it's hard to
climb out of.

663
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,640
Yeah, 100%.
You know, Yeah.

664
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,120
I mean, you know, but where,
when did we lose common sense

665
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,360
like I mean, did was this way?
Did we ever have?

666
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,080
It or did this just.
Have it.

667
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,239
Well, I, I think our industry
made some sense like 10 years

668
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,159
ago, but I think a lot of it
doesn't today.

669
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,840
Like I, I roll my eyes so many
times or just shake my head and

670
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,960
go why?
And you know, like I just

671
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,679
created AI, just created an AI
business that makes rental

672
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,440
companies more more profitable,
more productive.

673
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,960
You know, it basically uses AI
to match up cross rentals.

674
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,120
So to find all the gear in the
world and say, what do I need?

675
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,880
I need this thing right here.
I need a hundred of them.

676
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,520
I need them in Chicago.
And you know, it's incredible

677
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,560
the pushback that you get from
some people who are like, but

678
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,159
I've always done it this way.
Like I've always basically put

679
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:49,800
two guys on phones for four days
to try and find one piece of

680
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,600
gear.
Look, change is always change is

681
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,440
always scary.
Change is always hard to

682
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,720
navigate and muscle memory when
it when it's deep in the muscle

683
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,960
is really hard to mitigate.
You know what I mean?

684
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,480
And when it comes to that side,
like so look, one of the one of

685
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,200
the panels, it's a closed panel
at LP's is a vendors panel

686
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,640
roundtable.
And basically I started it, you

687
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:19,360
know, we started kind of that
the idea is can't keep, I said

688
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,720
it from the stage last year.
Don't call me competition when

689
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,440
half your truck is full of my
cases.

690
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,480
We know how incestuous the
industry is.

691
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,320
Stop treating it like
competition.

692
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,720
We're all colleagues.
There's a lot of mid range good

693
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,520
sized vendors that the reason
why they are is because they

694
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,720
lean on all sorts of all the
ones that they sub rent from and

695
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:42,400
to is what's made them the size
they are.

696
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,040
We all sub rent from each other.
So get over it.

697
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,680
And the best way to do this is
this.

698
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,160
This panel started for this
reason is get a bunch of vendors

699
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,520
in the room and say, let's start
talking about availability and

700
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,160
shared calendars.
We don't want to know who your

701
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,920
clients are.
We don't want to just show us

702
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,160
that hey, on these dates this is
available.

703
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,640
And if you've got that, we could
bypass the weeks of e-mail and

704
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,080
hoping for a response to find
out do you have it, how much

705
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,120
whatever we then would see they
have it, it's there.

706
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,600
Now it's just the, hey, how much
for this, for that, you know

707
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,280
what I mean, kind of deal.
Guess what, Chris?

708
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,160
I've got exactly what you're.
Talking about what what ends up

709
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,560
happening is we're giving
everybody work because right now

710
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,840
we're we're seeing the Home
Depot and Walmart approach to

711
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,160
vendors is quickly taking even
bigger hold with the

712
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,480
monopolization of some of the
companies that are pushing mom

713
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,880
and pops out and people say it's
not dangerous.

714
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,200
And I go, okay, well look, when
you get down and you only have

715
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,440
two vendors to choose from and
they're dictating how this

716
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,360
industry is gonna go, that's
dangerous.

717
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,240
OK.
When you push all the mom and

718
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:41,240
pops out, you also learn
competition also spurs

719
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:43,640
innovation.
When you get a corporate that

720
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,640
their sops are written right.
Most corporations cannot change

721
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,640
from their Sops.
And all of a sudden they just

722
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,000
became this mundane push of how
they do things.

723
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,120
And that's it.
They start dictating to the

724
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,160
manufacturers how much they're
going to pay for gear.

725
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,440
They're going to want their name
silk screened on the gear that

726
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,040
they're paying for.
And all of a sudden it just

727
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,960
becomes this monopoly and
everything's padded.

728
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,160
The more different assets they
cover.

729
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,080
We're when that mom and pop, you
know, here's the other side of

730
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,360
it.
When that mom and pop, you may

731
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,560
be a big client to that mom and
pop or that smaller regional

732
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,680
company, right?
Well, when it's gobbled up by

733
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,600
the big one, you're no longer
shit because they've already got

734
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,760
clients that are way up here.
So you're not being treated with

735
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,200
that level or the employees that
maybe have been there for 1520

736
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,160
years and thought they had time
and we're going to grow.

737
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,480
Well now the new company that
owns them doesn't know shit.

738
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,360
About you and you're going
against 100 other people now

739
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,000
buying.
Yeah.

740
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,600
So, you know, we need to be very
cognizant of this and watch and

741
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,880
be careful.
In my opinion, I'll always

742
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,000
champion the blue collar side of
this industry.

743
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,240
I'll always champion the bands
that are grinding out the 200

744
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,560
dates.
I don't chase one percenters.

745
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,760
You know what, the margins are
small and it's a pain in the

746
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,920
ass.
So I'd rather have the

747
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,120
relationship with those that are
out there doing it or be talking

748
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,440
to tomorrow's bigger clients as
they're coming up.

749
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,280
I'd rather go that route.
Yeah.

750
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,280
You know, so I mean, are you and
I think I know the answer, but

751
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,720
are you on the side of no
private equity or private equity

752
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:11,640
or it's.
Just part of the world.

753
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,800
I wouldn't say I call it a side.
I wouldn't say I call it a side.

754
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,720
I would.
I would say that, you know, my

755
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,520
understanding and history of
knowing VCs and the equity

756
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,440
groups is that, you know, they
have an interest span usually on

757
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,560
their books or projects that
only lasts X amount of time.

758
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,000
And then they look for new
things to get into.

759
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,040
You know, and I get concerned
with that because let's say one

760
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,480
of these huge entities, now that
that's, you know, going that

761
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,920
Home Depot Walmart route and
buying everything up, let's say

762
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,840
that they went under, right?
Well, we have to be clear that

763
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,120
we're not went under, but let's
say they wanted to liquidate and

764
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,680
move out of it.
Well, and it becomes a real

765
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,800
estate deal.
If that amount of gear were to

766
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,080
hit the market, it devalues
everybody else's inventory like

767
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,920
that.
OK.

768
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,080
And we're already running into
issues with nobody knows which

769
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,240
way tariffs are going to be.
I like, you know, you look at

770
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,400
your watch because it could be
different, you know, by 1:00

771
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,840
this afternoon.
We don't know.

772
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,960
So and money's expensive right
now.

773
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Money's questionable right now.
Tariffs are questionable right

774
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,400
now.
So there's a lot of vendors that

775
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,640
are kind of like, you know,
what, what are they doing with

776
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,240
their CapEx?
How are they going to do this?

777
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:14,040
What are they putting on hold?
You know, I mean, and we also

778
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,600
ran into that issue for that
time period of chips and then

779
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,160
this or that that already
stagnated kind of our, our, our

780
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,840
technological push, if you will,
our innovative push.

781
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,640
And then tariffs hit and
everybody questioned that.

782
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,880
So now all of a sudden gear is
aging further out between models

783
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,000
and you're walking trade show
floors looking for that Wow

784
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,680
item.
And it's the same regurgitated

785
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,560
shit.
You're not seeing a lot of Wow,

786
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,840
you're not seeing a lot of new
because they either can't get

787
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,560
the parts, wait too long for the
parts, the products going to be

788
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160
too old.
Can't ship it to the States and

789
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,040
really there's people out there
buying.

790
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,680
I wouldn't call them inferior,
but lesser known brands just

791
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,600
based on availability.
It's like, wait, you have it in

792
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,040
stock here now I'll take that
instead of waiting to be more.

793
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,160
So in sound more so in sound
than lighting lighting.

794
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,840
LED is a big one.
LED is a big one.

795
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,320
LED.
Everyone has inventory for the

796
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,520
most part in LED fixtures.
Oh, you mean LED screens?

797
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,880
Yeah, well, it depends on the
brand.

798
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,840
I mean, you're Speaking of
lighting, you're only.

799
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,520
Buying, yeah, but if you're only
buying row, yeah, you might have

800
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,520
to wait a bit because.
Well, no, even if if you look at

801
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,040
row absent Fabulux, you look,
you look at the bigger ones and

802
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,960
inventory isn't as big as you
think, you know, and even in

803
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,960
even in lighting, you know, they
generally because, well, first

804
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,440
of it that, you know, they ship
as they're kind of going in a

805
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,120
constant shipping pattern, you
know, Robbie, and so they and

806
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,720
everybody else, but you know,
it's different.

807
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:46,120
Lighting also doesn't age out
quite as quickly.

808
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,840
And you know, and it's
interesting to me because video

809
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,440
walls are are still ugly, right?
It's just a flat wall.

810
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,880
The back of it's ugly.
You know, everybody got excited

811
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,680
because we can make a sphere,
but they found out that's kind

812
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,800
of A1 trick pony, you know what
I mean?

813
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,120
Or, you know, trying to make
shapes.

814
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,200
And so we make shapes with soft
goods or, or with, you know,

815
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,520
some sort of set implementation
to give it a different shape and

816
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,320
stuff.
But the only thing that has

817
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,280
changed in LED walls at all is
pixel pitch.

818
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,680
That's it.
Other than that, it's the same

819
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,120
thing.
The only thing that got stupid

820
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,400
expensive and went up was
content creation where 30

821
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,800
seconds could cost you 100
grand, right?

822
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,200
So it's which I mean obviously
EDM and the DJ's really needed

823
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,640
cuz.
Yeah, well, but back, back to

824
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,040
the private equity thing.
So, you know, to me it's a

825
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,840
double edged sword and and I, I
kind of waiver back and forth on

826
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,960
on what edge I'm I'm liking or
disliking the most.

827
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,440
But The thing is, as shows
continue to get larger and you

828
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,680
now have, you know, 2000 moving
light shows where you used to be

829
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:51,840
have 40 moving lights on a show.
And you know, not the, the mom

830
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,000
and pop doesn't really have
access to a show like that right

831
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,920
now.
So it does end up with one of

832
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,560
the larger and then they're
backed by private equity.

833
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,080
And then the more private equity
needs to go in there, the more

834
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,160
control that private equity
company gets.

835
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,320
And like you said, they're,
they're buying these companies,

836
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,320
you know, not because they're
patient and all of those things

837
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,080
they're buying.
The line item.

838
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,600
Well, and all they're doing is
they're taking it up to the next

839
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,400
level so that they can sell it
to the next bigger private

840
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,720
equity company up at a big
profit.

841
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,880
And then you sell your book.
You sell your book.

842
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,720
It's an old model, correct?
Correct.

843
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,880
And but they don't have
longevity in mind.

844
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,080
They don't give a shit about
relationships at the end of the

845
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,480
day.
And so that's where it does

846
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,640
become a little negative.
And I'm I'm bulking a bunch of

847
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,080
private equity companies in the
smaller ones are not like that,

848
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,840
like some of the the smaller
roll ups really are very.

849
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,120
But the smaller ones strive to
be, the smaller ones strive to

850
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,040
be, and they follow the metrics
and SOP's of the larger ones.

851
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,840
So their intention is still the
same.

852
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,920
And I get again, that, look,
we're all just somebody else's

853
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,400
line item, right?
But there's a difference of line

854
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,800
item and a love of an industry
compared to line item and a love

855
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,760
of how much you get out of the
industry.

856
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,280
Yeah, those are two different
narratives and approaches, if

857
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,760
you will.
So again, I'm more about the

858
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,400
psyche and vibe of things.
You know, everybody knows what

859
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,400
or not everybody.
I don't want to sound like that,

860
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,240
but everybody that knows me
knows what I do.

861
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,280
I, I, you know, they're friends
of mine.

862
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,440
I tell you, I know about their
wives and their children.

863
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,360
And that's what I talk about
because I don't need to talk

864
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,160
about what I do.
If they need me, they'll call me

865
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,120
and ask me.
It's not that constant grind in

866
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,880
that push of sale, sell, sell.
Every client I have is just a

867
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,920
byproduct of my relationships
And, and they call and, and I

868
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,520
like it that way.
You know what I mean?

869
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,320
I like the psyche vibe of it
that way because I'm all about,

870
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,920
I don't like the fatiguing
approaches that have been in

871
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,880
place for so long.
It's kind of like, in my

872
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,200
opinion, trade shows are very
antiquated.

873
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,240
Dying vibe.
Like I believe we've been seeing

874
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:57,720
the death rattle of some of the
biggest names of them for some

875
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,280
time.
And the reason being is that

876
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:03,680
let's say you've got a company,
and this is actually factual to

877
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,960
a point that a company spends
$750,000 on a trade show for

878
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,480
Booth, right?
They're doing the antiquated

879
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,440
model of badge scanning.
OK.

880
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,760
And I even wrote an article and
I titled it, you know, can I

881
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,760
scan your badge?
20 more and I get a bonus

882
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,600
because they're just scanning
anything that moves.

883
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,840
But the actual lead generation
by the time you've vetted out to

884
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,600
anything real is less than 5%.
And I'm being very generous

885
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,960
because you just have people.
So just scan, scan, scan.

886
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,680
Oh, I got 20,000 badge cans.
Oh great.

887
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,360
How many of them are actually
applicable and how much time are

888
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,640
you going to invest in money
invest of vetting any of them?

889
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,600
So let's say this company spent
$750,000 on their booth, their

890
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,000
travel, getting everybody there
and they go well, yeah, but we

891
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,480
closed $480,000.
And then you ask that question.

892
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,880
Yeah, but was, is that client
already in your pipeline, in

893
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,040
your e-mail chain?
It's like, well, yeah, So what

894
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,480
you did is you spent $750,000 to
close 480.

895
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:56,920
Yeah.
You know, and they go, well,

896
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,920
Chris, what would you do?
And I talked to them about the

897
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,560
model that is LP's.
It's like, look, you could take

898
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,000
100 or 50 of your really top
prospects.

899
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,480
You could fly them into a
resort, put them up, wine them,

900
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,240
dine them, hang out with them,
have a very focused personal

901
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:18,720
connection with them for a
weekend, and then send them home

902
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,800
for less than $150,000.
And you got to your key people

903
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,280
and you got rid of all the noise
and the bullshit and the added

904
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:28,960
expense.
Here's the thing though.

905
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,320
I agree with you, however I've
seen so many companies try

906
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,440
exactly what you're talking
about by dropping for example,

907
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,960
LDI and then going and doing an.
Didn't say drop, instead I said

908
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,800
drop.
But now you're doing both.

909
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,360
So now you're doing 650,000 or.
Whatever.

910
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,720
No, no, no, you can do.
Plus you're doing this other.

911
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:54,520
You can be a presence at LDI
without spending anywhere near 6

912
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,400
figures all day long.
I've done it so many times.

913
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,160
I, I don't agree with you on
that.

914
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,040
Like that's fun and I've seen so
many manufacturers do it.

915
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,720
I've tried it myself, you know,
and I was a big budget exhibitor

916
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,040
at LDI with Martin and with high
end.

917
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,480
It's it's just to people forget
you so quickly if you're not one

918
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,440
of the big 3 or 4 booths at the
show.

919
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,040
You know, people said that about
Fender and Gibson at Nam.

920
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,240
I don't think anybody forgot
them.

921
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,160
Yeah.
Well, but I mean, who are they

922
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,520
being replaced with?
You know, there's not anybody

923
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,360
that's sort of on the same level
as Fender and Gibson.

924
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,800
Well, look, you know people that
follow Roby follow Roby, people

925
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,720
that follow Chauvet follow
Chauvet And you know what

926
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:44,080
happens all year long?
Their sales reps are out there

927
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,560
visiting people.
So take away the throngs of the

928
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,000
30,000 people walking the
fatiguing halls of NAB and LDI

929
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,200
just to get through the noise of
all the companies are not going

930
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,520
to purchase from just to go see
the Rep that they already know

931
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,440
and hang out with outside of
LDI.

932
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:05,000
Yeah, I'm not advocating
spending 750 grand at a trade

933
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,480
show because but I did it for a
long time and I understand, you

934
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,000
know, it's almost.
Like I think you're going to.

935
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,760
See it to cocaine, you know, I
think you're going to see, but

936
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,960
you still do it.
I think you're going to see more

937
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,720
executive events pop up,
especially, you know, as we're

938
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,040
looking at what Drayage is
doing, as we're looking at what

939
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,800
Encore is doing, I think you're
going to see him scale back just

940
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,320
because it's, it's untenable at
the drayage now.

941
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,640
Chris, by the way, it's not just
that, like I don't know if

942
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,320
you've booked a room in Las
Vegas lately, but Jesus Christ,

943
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,920
like I like staying at the
Renaissance because there's no

944
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,800
casino.
It's not obnoxious.

945
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,120
It's quiet.
And it was always like 175

946
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,680
bucks.
It's $400.00 now to stay at the

947
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:47,640
Renaissance.
That's right.

948
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,600
I, I, you know, one of the L DS
I know was complaining on

949
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,120
Facebook a couple weeks ago.
He was in Vegas at one of the

950
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,280
hotel bars, and he said a
cocktail's 30 bucks.

951
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,560
Sure.
Depending on what you order.

952
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,640
Absolutely.
Look, I'm at LDI every year.

953
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,800
I'm at Infocom, I'm at NAB, I'm
at Nam.

954
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,800
I'm at all of them.
Because I have to be right.

955
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:09,760
That's why I'm there.
I have to be there.

956
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,880
I have to know what's going on.
You know you can't.

957
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,000
I'm basically an executive level
consultant these days, have been

958
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,160
for years.
And you can't consult your

959
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,040
clients if you don't know.
So I have to be out there in it

960
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,600
and in the know to do my clients
any good.

961
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,080
But that said, you know, when
you do look at it and I, I

962
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,680
bounce around between Resorts
World or, you know, wherever

963
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,040
else and you know, I, I stay
where I stay and they're all

964
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,400
expensive and all the drinks are
expensive and, you know, just

965
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,040
getting in and getting out.
But I, I think we are going to

966
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,920
see a change.
I, I've one of the biggest

967
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,440
bonuses of being the director of
LP's is that I speak to

968
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,240
individuals from every single
facet of the industry all year

969
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,000
long.
And that's logistics, lighting,

970
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,840
vendors, manufacturers, audio.
And I talked to all of them all

971
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,080
year about what panels we're
going to do and how does you

972
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,640
know what this is and what that
is.

973
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,880
And it's one of the reasons that
our panels are purely communal

974
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,960
LED because trying to set up a
PowerPoint and hot topics 6

975
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,680
months out bullshit.
The topics going to change.

976
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,480
So we actually have people that
are regulars that say, Chris,

977
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,640
yeah, I'll help.
And we call them conversation

978
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,640
curators because that's all they
are, where we don't start with

979
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,240
topics.
We get in the room with

980
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,000
everybody and go, so who's got a
topic?

981
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,280
And anybody from the audience at
that point goes, what about

982
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,800
this?
And the whole room talks about

983
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,320
it in a communal fashion.
And when that conversation dies,

984
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,600
the next one or it leads into
another one.

985
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,640
And that's a healthier aspect to
it.

986
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,720
But a lot of the conversations
are turning to that.

987
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,840
It's becoming untenable.
It's being priced out.

988
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,680
The return isn't there.
Even the exposure that you speak

989
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,120
of no longer has the weight it
used to, nor is the exposure as

990
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:02,600
big as it used to be now.
So it's, you know, I'm not

991
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,360
saying it's going away tomorrow,
but I, I do see a change.

992
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,840
Yeah, no and I agree with you.
I see the same change and and I

993
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,080
think you know, COVID helped to
drive that even further forward.

994
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,960
I think a lot of the
manufacturers like there's no

995
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,440
longer when I was in that side
of the business at a high level

996
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,920
in Martin or high end and making
decisions on things like trade

997
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,160
shows.
One of the things was you had a

998
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,520
trade show season that became
your launch season for new

999
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,360
product.
And so you might launch a

1000
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:41,040
product at the show in Frankfurt
and then or Plaza might be the

1001
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,680
beginning of your season and you
go Plaza, LDI and then the show

1002
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,200
in Frankfurt.
And that's all changed because

1003
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,880
people, because of the Internet
and people doing these Rd. shows

1004
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,400
and stuff, they're launching all
year.

1005
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,320
So the product launches when
it's ready.

1006
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,280
It doesn't wait for LDI or Plaza
or whatever was your big show in

1007
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,720
the past.
And plus there's more shows now,

1008
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,920
you know, there's the one in in
Spain and so.

1009
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,920
But you can go down.
I'm actually going out.

1010
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,360
There's so many that nobody can
afford to do them all.

1011
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,200
And now you're also seeing
manufacturers have actually

1012
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:19,160
reverted back to showrooms.
Yeah, yeah, it's true.

1013
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,680
Like even absent recent, just
recently in the last six months

1014
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,800
opened up in LA showroom
downtown, opened up a New York

1015
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,560
showroom, opened up in Orlando
showroom.

1016
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,000
And they're starting to pull
back because they're recognizing

1017
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,280
now the absent did I believe
42,000,000 last year or the year

1018
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,200
before.
And I actually flew over.

1019
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,280
I was at the headquarters there
and, and looking at what they're

1020
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:42,520
doing and knew the plans were
coming.

1021
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:47,000
But it's kind of when you look
at that approach, it goes back

1022
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,760
to, OK, well, we're not seeing
the exposure we used to see

1023
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,920
anymore.
You're not seeing the certain

1024
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,480
people at the shows anymore
because nobody wants to go pay

1025
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,080
$500.00 for it basically.
You know, granted, you know, I

1026
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,160
don't know why there's a
registration for LDI because all

1027
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,680
of us get a registration to walk
the floor or whatever else,

1028
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,320
right?
But it's kind of, you know, when

1029
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,200
you do it, it's still going to
cost you $1000 plus to do it if

1030
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,480
you're going to do it right.
Yeah, OK.

1031
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,920
And some people are looking at
it now going just.

1032
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,680
Yeah, they're just like, it's
for what I'm going to go see.

1033
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,440
Like Craig Burroughs and I used
to talk about this, you know, I

1034
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,160
mean, and I miss Craig.
He was character.

1035
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,360
But, you know, it's we used to
talk about.

1036
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,200
So I flew all the way here to
see you.

1037
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,640
I see you all the time.
That's fine.

1038
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,040
You know, what are we going to
talk about that we didn't talk

1039
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,600
about 3 weeks ago when we saw
each other?

1040
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,720
What are you going to show me
that I don't already know?

1041
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,760
You know, and that's that thing
of, well, you know, it used to

1042
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,040
be as you said, you were
leasing, but you were releasing

1043
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,000
something that was a wow factor.
When's the last time you saw a

1044
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,880
wow factor?
It doesn't happen often.

1045
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,600
Like usually there's one or two
at every LDI, every, maybe

1046
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:51,520
every.
Yeah.

1047
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,280
I mean, usually there's
something there's.

1048
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,080
Something.
Yeah, well, I love walking.

1049
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,240
It's the realest thing.
Chris, we changed the housing.

1050
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,320
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the big lighting

1051
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,960
manufacturers aren't as exciting
as they used to be.

1052
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,640
But the other thing is there's
other challenges out there, you

1053
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,840
know, like are you familiar with
DTC?

1054
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,400
The, the term DTC direct to
consumer, you know, lighting

1055
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,360
products.
I'm sure you've seen it selling

1056
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,400
on Facebook or selling on
Amazon.

1057
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,800
And you know, that's a big
change.

1058
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,000
Like that takes out not just the
the the dealer, but it takes the

1059
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,280
dealer, the distributor, the
specifier.

1060
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,440
It takes a whole bunch of people
out of that game and and brings

1061
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:38,120
the price down of call it an
average offshore made moving

1062
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,800
light from, you know, 5 grand to
now it's 500 bucks or 700 bucks

1063
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,680
or something.
And so that's going to have a

1064
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,080
massive.
Well, have you seen the?

1065
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,120
Plans are less important.
Are you familiar with the

1066
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,880
professional car buyers?
There's people that they just

1067
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,400
sign up to get online for the
next new Ferrari and then they

1068
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,760
just sell their position.
But their whole income is based

1069
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,960
on them getting on these lists
for these sought after cars and

1070
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,600
they just wait till they move
further up the list because some

1071
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,880
billionaire from the Middle East
or somewhere else is going to

1072
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,000
buy their spot in line.
Well then my.

1073
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,400
Lawyer, my lawyer does that with
Lamborghinis.

1074
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,440
These are right.
He buys a Lamborghini and I've,

1075
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,000
I've always asked him like, why
are you doing this?

1076
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,000
Because he'll make, he'll make
20%.

1077
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:29,080
He makes between 50 and 100
grand a year, 20% always driving

1078
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:33,320
a brand new Lamborghini.
He's usually got a Eurus SUV and

1079
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,480
a car, and he drives them for a
couple of months.

1080
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,800
He's got another one on order
already as the other ones coming

1081
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,920
in.
The dealership sells this one

1082
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,520
for him because they're behind
on cars and they got somebody

1083
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,360
who wants that SRO or whatever
it is and so they sell it for

1084
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,800
him and he makes 50 grand and
well, we now have.

1085
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,000
Also, we have indistinct
importers now too.

1086
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,960
We have people that just
recognize any industry that they

1087
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:02,800
can see a markup and if they're
based overseas, they'll buy a

1088
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,440
shit load, send it over.
They don't have the sales teams

1089
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,320
or the advertising, but they've
got enough funnel knowledge to

1090
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,440
go ahead and get it out there
and make their profits.

1091
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,560
So now we just have these
indiscriminate distributors that

1092
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,280
are kind of playing the game,
right?

1093
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,240
And, and we're seeing that more
and more.

1094
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,640
And when you say that, you know
what we learn about the

1095
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,040
industry, I don't think the
common sense thing changed.

1096
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,720
I just think that with the
adaptation and depth of social

1097
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:32,800
media, we're just more cognizant
of it now because it's thrown at

1098
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,000
us from so many different
directions that we question how

1099
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,080
much common sense there was
because a lot of shit used to

1100
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,560
hide in the shadows.
And the world's a whole lot

1101
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,760
smaller.
You know the world got a whole

1102
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,720
lot smaller when you connected
everyone.

1103
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,080
Through social media.
Well, let's let's take music,

1104
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,560
right?
I, I give this analogy to

1105
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,560
students a lot that back in the
day and I hate to be Aegis, but

1106
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:51,840
I'm old.
Don't let the Gray hair fool

1107
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:53,240
you.
You know what I mean?

1108
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:57,880
It's so it's it used to take six
months to work a single across

1109
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,320
the country that you'd release
it have to get on the radio

1110
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,640
stations, you'd have to go play
all these different shows.

1111
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,960
Now less than 60 seconds, and
that song's worldwide.

1112
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,040
Yeah, and it's dead already,
right?

1113
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,640
And on the longevity, the
longevity of a hit now, you

1114
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,280
know, it used to be the hit for
the summer.

1115
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,200
Now it's the hit for the week
you hope.

1116
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:17,880
Yeah.
And if it is the hit for the

1117
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,720
summer, then it's massive and
ridiculous.

1118
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:22,680
But to, you know, get into those
shark infested waters is that

1119
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,680
much more difficult.
You know, there used to be X

1120
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:27,000
amount of albums released a
year.

1121
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,440
Now you can't even count the
amount that are released.

1122
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,960
As you lower the barrier to
entry, you obviously raise the

1123
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,640
the competition heavily from the
standpoint of numbers anyways.

1124
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,880
And I don't know if you've paid
any attention to like Suno or

1125
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,640
the other AI music apps.
They're.

1126
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,120
Good.
I mean, they are really like,

1127
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,920
what's the one, the 50 Cent song
that has been redone like in

1128
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,480
sort of old 40s.
In the club style.

1129
00:56:54,680 --> 00:57:00,120
In the club it's something men,
something of men, many men.

1130
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,280
Many men.
Many.

1131
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:06,480
Men the the AI version of that
after we're done, go look for.

1132
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,960
It no, I've heard them that
you're talking about the lounge

1133
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,200
version of it.
Yeah, yeah, it is so freaking

1134
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,120
good.
And I'm not a 50 Cent guy or

1135
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:14,960
anything.
But.

1136
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,080
It is really good.
Well, really.

1137
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,560
Really good.
Even regurgitation has been

1138
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,800
incredibly speed up.
It used to be, you know, they'd

1139
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,760
wait for every generation to
redo a movie.

1140
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,160
Right now they can almost not
not even wait that long and redo

1141
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:27,920
it.
You know what I mean?

1142
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:28,640
It's.
Crazy.

1143
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:30,040
Yeah.
And soon you're going to see

1144
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,200
movies with Marlon Brando in
them.

1145
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:37,000
Or or, you know, music videos
with new songs from Michael

1146
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,840
Jackson.
Like that's some of the

1147
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:44,000
interesting weird stuff that I'm
actually curious to see how they

1148
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,680
spin some of those things or a
younger Tom Cruise or a, you

1149
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,760
know, like you can just do
anything with this.

1150
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,360
I was involved with a company
that brought me on as a

1151
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,240
consultant that wanted to do a
travelling the history of music

1152
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,120
as a hologram feature.
And people don't.

1153
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,360
I know you what you're going to
say, but I use hologram just as

1154
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,200
terminology that most people you
know.

1155
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,880
Yes, we know there's no such
thing at whatever, but just to

1156
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,600
say anyways that they wanted it
was Johnny Cash on a horse as

1157
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,600
the narrator.
And you were going to see Janis

1158
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,760
Joplin with a live band and Jim
Morrison with a live band.

1159
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,520
And you were going to go through
the history and the tech was

1160
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,280
there to make it amazing.
The the show was immersive and

1161
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,280
going to be great.
But what we run into now, and my

1162
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,160
whole question with AI or my
whole concern about AI is the

1163
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,400
same thing that ran into is
First off, you just can't get

1164
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,400
that many estates to agree #1
and you kind of start pushing

1165
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,000
the AI side where everybody
questions, OK, but who owns it,

1166
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:41,920
right?
There's all.

1167
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,000
Kinds of copyright issues.
Right.

1168
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,040
Well, but we hadn't written any
for a yet.

1169
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,800
So the law is trying to catch
up.

1170
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,240
And unfortunately right now, we
we've been living in such a

1171
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:56,160
litigious society for so long,
the backlog to get to those laws

1172
00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:01,120
is years.
So in the meantime, likeness and

1173
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,560
this and that are just going to
be ripped to shreds until any

1174
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,000
real playbook has time to be
even just sorted that.

1175
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,120
Or, or they just keep going and
sue me when you get to me, you

1176
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,840
know?
Gearsource was founded in 2002

1177
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,680
with an ambitious mission to
support live event businesses

1178
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,360
buy and sell gear globally.
Since that time, the company has

1179
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,040
transacted in more than 100
countries, selling 1/4 billion

1180
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,160
dollars in sound, lighting,
staging and video gear.

1181
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,120
Gearsource continues to evolve
the platform for global growth,

1182
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,560
enabling localized currencies,
fraud identification, protecting

1183
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,880
buyers and sellers, plus global
logistics support through gear

1184
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:44,960
moves.
The company is developing new

1185
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,760
features including Gear Sync,
allowing you to manage up to 400

1186
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,960
listings at once and Need Zone,
an automated shopping assistant

1187
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,600
for hard to find items.
Take full control over your gear

1188
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,960
with a visit to gearsource.com
today.

1189
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:04,720
You know, like ChatGPT, Open AI
and all of these models are

1190
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,960
basically building these models.
They're, they're capturing all

1191
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:12,360
the data from us, you know, from
whether it's our business

1192
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,680
websites or our personal
Facebook.

1193
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:19,400
Community builds or community?
Pages but against, you know,

1194
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,760
without your permission.
Like we're basically taking all

1195
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,880
of my content from my websites
and.

1196
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,920
When's the last time you read
line for line the entirety of

1197
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:36,520
terms of service on anything?
Yeah, I mean, I do all the time,

1198
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,760
but on my own sites, right.
So I I don't on other people's.

1199
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:40,480
Sites.
Yeah, See.

1200
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,880
You just click.
You know what I do now?

1201
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,320
Click to continue Yeah, but the
majority of the world is in.

1202
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Paste, copy and paste into
ChatGPT and say anything that I

1203
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,280
should be, you know, concerned
with here.

1204
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,840
Well, you're you're an outlier
because 99% of the world.

1205
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:57,640
Click to continue.
Click to continue.

1206
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,520
Of course, we've been doing it
for years.

1207
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,360
And it's like everybody I love,
you know, I, I don't love it.

1208
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,920
It actually just it, it speaks
volumes about everybody that

1209
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,360
gets on Facebook goes, damn it,
freedom of speech and

1210
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,560
censorship.
It's like First off, this is a

1211
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,960
privately held platform that you
agreed to the terms of service

1212
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,000
of and you clearly have no idea
about what freedom of speech or

1213
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,080
anything else because you agreed
to this shit and yet here you

1214
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,560
are on here bitching about it.
It says a lot.

1215
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,960
Chris I love the people who who
paste that thing in their

1216
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,560
Facebook.
Oh yeah, they don't.

1217
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,560
I do not give the give my
photos.

1218
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,600
I do not give guess what you
already did like when you signed

1219
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,360
up for this free service, which
is pretty incredible.

1220
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,800
You know Facebook is free and
it's pretty incredible.

1221
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,200
Same with Instagram and all the
other ones sure.

1222
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:46,000
And you know, you agreed that
you're paying for this by giving

1223
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,320
us access to your.
Data.

1224
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,560
And let's be clear, anybody who
thinks that their info is not

1225
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,440
out there is kidding themselves.
Did you did you get a driver's

1226
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,400
license?
Yeah.

1227
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:57,880
Did they take your picture?
Yeah.

1228
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,360
Did you get a passport?
Yeah.

1229
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,160
Did they take your picture?
OK, But now you're afraid of the

1230
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,280
airport taking your picture.
Yeah.

1231
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:05,800
You got to work with me here a
little bit.

1232
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,440
I mean, let's just be.
Come on now.

1233
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,160
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Up on that stuff.

1234
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,480
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Before it ever even became.

1235
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,240
A they've already gone.
I just have people going, well,

1236
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,440
I'm not going to let it take my
picture.

1237
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,480
That's A and I go, OK, but it's
the same company that took your

1238
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,800
passport picture.
What the hell are you on about?

1239
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:22,920
What are you worried about?
Like I lost you.

1240
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,280
Plan on your question.
Isn't it robbing, robbing the

1241
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,400
Louvre, you know, and and then
having facial recognition on it?

1242
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,320
What are you concerned about?
Right?

1243
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,160
I mean, really.
Well, in my opinion, look, you

1244
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,080
know, everybody goes, you know,
Big Brother this, Big Brother

1245
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:40,280
that Now, yeah, I'm of the
opinion of and I'm I don't want

1246
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,920
to touch too much because I
don't want to get into any

1247
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,440
politics or bullshit like that.
But I will say this, that if

1248
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,800
you're downtown and you're
fucking up.

1249
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:49,960
Yeah.
You need to be stopped.

1250
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,600
Yeah, 100%, absolutely.
If you're fucking up.

1251
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,600
If you're fucking up.
Yeah, you know.

1252
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,280
So.
You know what, you don't want to

1253
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,040
get in trouble, don't do bad
shit.

1254
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:03,680
You know, it's like, there you
go.

1255
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,680
I remember Chris Rock.
You know, Chris, and this is

1256
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,080
political and I don't want it to
sound that way or whatever, but

1257
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,960
Chris Rock was saying, you know,
if you don't want to get pulled

1258
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,000
over for no reason, stop being
an idiot.

1259
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,080
You know, stop being stupid.
Don't stop giving them a.

1260
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,200
Shit.
Well, I will I, I push back to

1261
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:22,920
that on a little bit because
unfortunately we do have some

1262
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,560
people that will pull you over
just because of the way you

1263
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:25,320
look.
Of course.

1264
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:26,720
Yeah, that sucks, you know what
I mean?

1265
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,880
But think about it, you know,
you bring up Chris Rock.

1266
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,400
Think about it.
You could not have a Richard

1267
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,480
Pryor today.
Oh, none of them.

1268
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,640
And yet here's the difference.
Everything that everybody calls

1269
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:41,800
comedy now and what they laugh
at is all from shit that they

1270
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:43,400
would have said.
Oh no, you can't do that.

1271
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,440
Where do you think everything
you think is funny came from?

1272
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,640
I'm not saying that Richard
Pryor was the, you know, the

1273
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,240
nucleus of this, but I'm saying
that the old era of comedy and

1274
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,320
shtick, if you will, would not
be allowed to happen at all

1275
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,920
today, Johnny.
Carson I see, I see all in the

1276
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:03,600
family clip and I just laugh
because it used to be one of my

1277
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,480
favorite shows.
I just laugh my ass off and

1278
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,280
there's just no way you could
make.

1279
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,560
No, today, no way.
No way you could.

1280
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,800
No way.
Even Netflix would be a little.

1281
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,120
Consist.
It was, you know.

1282
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,640
Even Netflix would be concerned
about shows like that.

1283
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:23,240
Even they would be like, yeah.
I saw somewhere on your bio or

1284
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,480
something that you did some work
with with Chappelle.

1285
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,560
And I love him.
Like, first of all, he's one of

1286
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,640
the funniest guys on earth and
brilliant.

1287
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,360
But the fact that he's like,
fuck you.

1288
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:40,960
Well, there's a line.
He leaps over it only far enough

1289
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,880
to make you talk about it.
And once you talk about it, he

1290
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,080
succeeded because that's what
he's trying to do.

1291
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,960
He wants you to talk about it.
Look, conversation is healthy.

1292
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:54,680
Diverse opinions to a point
without hatred and bigotry and

1293
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,920
bullshit are healthy.
So it's kind of, and he does

1294
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:00,400
that.
And, you know, in the way the

1295
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:05,200
Chappelle thing even came to me
was actually rooted in audio.

1296
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,240
A gentleman, Dave Oaken and I,
during the pandemic, you know,

1297
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,000
you spent a lot of time on the
phone.

1298
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,400
And we were talking about like,
look, you know, what's the

1299
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,040
hardest thing for audio?
And it's spoken word.

1300
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,720
Where's the hardest place to do
audio spoken word in an arena?

1301
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,720
When is it the most dangerous of
time?

1302
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:29,080
When the punchline is worth 10
million, then the audio is

1303
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,800
critical, right?
So we were talking about putting

1304
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,840
together a rig specifically for
comedy, and it wasn't even

1305
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,960
Chappelle at that time.
And then Oaken ended up in the

1306
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,360
Chappelle camp and said, well,
I've been working with Chris on

1307
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,120
this thing.
And at the time, and I don't

1308
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,240
mean this as a plug to anybody
or whatever else, but at the

1309
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,720
time, I had gotten a unsolicited
phone call from an audio friend

1310
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:55,240
of mine who went into this
diatribe about the new robotic

1311
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,280
PK system, right?
And we started talking about it,

1312
01:05:58,280 --> 01:05:59,720
this and that.
And all of a sudden, you know,

1313
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,240
one of my clients is sitting
next to me overhearing the

1314
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,800
conversation.
And he goes and does his due

1315
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,040
diligence.
I do mine.

1316
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,520
He ends up buying a very large
portion of it.

1317
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,560
Oaken comes to me for the
Chappelle tour and we end up

1318
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,880
putting it out.
But out of that came two

1319
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:17,560
incredible quotes from Dave
himself.

1320
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,400
One was it's so good it makes me
perform better.

1321
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:23,200
Number 2 was the best, best he
ever sounded.

1322
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,400
The third was not a single
ticket buyback for sound

1323
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,560
complaint on an entire arena.
Tour.

1324
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:30,560
Yeah.
That's cool.

1325
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,840
That's cool.
By the way, that system, that's

1326
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,480
my hometown.
I'm from Calgary.

1327
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,480
Yeah.
And so I remember going with

1328
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,160
Jeremy and standing there in
the.

1329
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,360
They know me well, Yeah.
And watching.

1330
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,360
Watching that system move and I
got goosebumps.

1331
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,040
It was just like when I saw my
first moving light.

1332
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:53,080
It was the exact same feeling.
Like I felt like why the hell

1333
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,640
would you not want a system?
Well, our team, our team would

1334
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,600
walk the arena and we would, if
you found a dead spot, it's

1335
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,800
like, OK, on Cabinet 5, let's
kick that one, you know?

1336
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,680
And since it does have that
individuality in its control, we

1337
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,200
are able to, OK, we could
mitigate that, mitigate that,

1338
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,840
mitigate that.
And it turned out to be an

1339
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,720
incredible success on that
front.

1340
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,760
And, you know, look, I'm an
audio guy, OK?

1341
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,080
It's what I did.
And I love audio.

1342
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,200
But I also believe now that, you
know, this whole I only work

1343
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,160
with this system kind of thing
is like, really?

1344
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,760
Because I'm pretty convinced I
could blindfold a lot of

1345
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,600
engineers.
And if I just ran the system

1346
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:29,120
flat, you're not telling me
what's playing.

1347
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,600
There's just not that big as
secrets in technology anymore,

1348
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,520
you know, Even in lighting,
there's no real secrets.

1349
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,360
Here's the other thing.
We're so many years into this

1350
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:43,320
that every single tech designer,
what have you, has almost now

1351
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,920
worked for every iteration of
whatever competition there was.

1352
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,560
True.
So the pool of tech is so

1353
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,760
incestuous at this point that,
again, there can't be secrets

1354
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:55,800
because this guy was here for 20
years.

1355
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,320
Now he's here or he's finishing
his career out there, but he's

1356
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,240
still bringing what he did there
to here.

1357
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:04,320
And it's been that way for so
many decades now that it's just

1358
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,560
what it is.
It's just blended.

1359
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:08,120
Yeah.
You know, it's funny you say

1360
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,920
that because I, I've said that
to other people where, you know,

1361
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:16,920
I used to, again, I started work
for Martin in 1991 and for many

1362
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,120
years I used to be able to look
up at a rig and say, OK, that's

1363
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:26,800
got cyber lights and clay Paki
whatever and VL fives or sixes

1364
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,040
or whatever.
I could tell you exactly what

1365
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,880
was in the rig today.
I can't like today everything

1366
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,920
it's it's very ubiquitous now.
Everyone, what you're also going

1367
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,120
to find is when you open it up,
it's like, wait, that's the same

1368
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,760
circuit board that's in there.
Why?

1369
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,720
Because there's one manufacturer
that makes that board, right?

1370
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,840
So it's, you know, and it's kind
of like that was one of the

1371
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,279
things when I was tapped for
LP's, which came around in

1372
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:53,399
another odd fashion.
But when I was tapped for it, I

1373
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:55,720
said, okay, look, I'm willing to
do it, but can we have a

1374
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,240
conversation on a few things?
And they said, sure, what is it?

1375
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:03,080
And the gentleman is Mario from
OSA, who now owns LP's, and he

1376
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,520
acquired it from Tour Link and
tapped me on the shoulder.

1377
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,240
And I said, well, first thing,
I'd like to change the name

1378
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,800
because I felt that the silos
that existed between corporate

1379
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,560
events, executive events,
municipal events, touring, what

1380
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:16,800
have you, they don't exist
anymore.

1381
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,640
We all use the same tech, the
same vendors, the same crews,

1382
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,399
the same labor, so there's no
difference.

1383
01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:24,160
So I didn't want it pigeonholed
to touring.

1384
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,479
The next thing was is I didn't
want any direct sponsors on

1385
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,680
general panels because it always
becomes a timeshare pitch.

1386
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,399
So it's kind of like, OK, well
look, we got a lighting panel

1387
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:36,800
and it's brought to you by ABC
Lighting and your lead

1388
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,439
moderator, surprise, surprise,
is the founder of ABC Lighting.

1389
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,399
So you're into a timeshare pitch
about ABC Lighting.

1390
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,720
So the general panels are just
run by the community and for the

1391
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,319
community.
Then what we created was things

1392
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:53,439
that I termed focused panel.
So if you have, let's say a

1393
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,920
focus panel brought by
Sennheiser and they do a great

1394
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,200
one every year with us that
it's, there's no subterfuge.

1395
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,800
You're going in to hear about
Sennheiser.

1396
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,640
But when you go into our general
sessions, it's complete communal

1397
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,480
conversation on just that loose
topic.

1398
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:14,560
And I found that we learned more
out of that than the obligatory

1399
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,680
talking head giving in the
timeshare pitch.

1400
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,840
Well, the way we do it and the
reason you should use us and I,

1401
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,200
I can't do that.
I, I just couldn't get behind

1402
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:26,160
that approach, you know, So the
whole idea behind LP's was that

1403
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,000
it had to be forward thinking,
had to be educational and

1404
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,480
couldn't be fatiguing.
So we have no fatiguing signage

1405
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:33,840
anywhere.
There's no timeshare pitch

1406
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,040
approach to our general panels.
It's held at a resort.

1407
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,400
We include all the food and a
bunch of open bars because what

1408
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,280
we found, if you're not reaching
for your wallet or your purse,

1409
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,080
your shoulders will drop.
You'll engage better.

1410
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,800
Let's get people back to talking
to each other, not badge

1411
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:50,200
scanning and you know, sending
it.

1412
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,560
We also we, I don't care what
anybody asks.

1413
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,760
We're never going to send our
attendance list because all of

1414
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,960
our attendees love the fact that
you get no cold emails of we see

1415
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:02,040
you're attending.
Do you have 5 minutes to find if

1416
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:03,640
we have some synergy and have
coffee?

1417
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,080
You know, I mean and you get
that from 70 different fucking

1418
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,960
vendors and all of a sudden
you're fatigued before you even

1419
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:10,880
get.
There, it's not pitch fest.

1420
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,880
No.
Hell no.

1421
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,760
So I want to dig into this
because you keep saying LP's and

1422
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,560
I want to make sure that, you
know, the people who have been

1423
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,480
sleeping for 30 years know what
we're talking about.

1424
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:26,600
South Live production Summit.
Give me the 32nd elevator pitch

1425
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:28,760
on on Live Production Summit.
What?

1426
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,120
Live Production Summit is a
completely.

1427
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:39,280
I'm going to use the term
agnostic event that is built by

1428
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:44,200
and for every facet and every
level of the industry.

1429
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:49,840
And the way I say that is it is
open to anybody because again,

1430
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:51,760
you're not competition, you're
colleagues.

1431
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,640
We all need each other.
We can all do bigger shows

1432
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,280
working together.
So if you're a vendor and you

1433
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,760
maybe I, I want to bid on this
show, but I don't have this, but

1434
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,160
you partner up with another
vendor and you can pull that

1435
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:03,800
off.
You know, I mean, you can fight

1436
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:08,160
against the monopolization in
these monolith size, you know,

1437
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:11,760
vendors that are popping up, you
know, trying to homogenize

1438
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:12,920
everything.
You can do it.

1439
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:17,680
The other side of it is, is that
we believe that, again, more

1440
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,880
networking and more communal
engagement is healthier for an

1441
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,760
industry than, again, just
sitting there listening to a

1442
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,520
talking head or following a
PowerPoint presentation.

1443
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:31,240
So we're really about engagement
with each other for a reason.

1444
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:34,360
We don't hand out everything and
all the list because we want you

1445
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:36,760
to talk to people.
We don't want you to target

1446
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:38,600
people, We don't want you to
hunt people.

1447
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,600
We want you to talk to people,
right?

1448
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,480
You know what I mean?
And look, there's worse places

1449
01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:45,400
to be than Palm Springs in
January.

1450
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:49,400
But we also set it up in a sense
that it was never meant as a

1451
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:50,960
profit margin.
If it breaks even, we're

1452
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:52,920
thrilled.
And the way it goes is we

1453
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,400
negotiate the room rates at a
brand new beautiful resort to be

1454
01:12:56,440 --> 01:13:00,720
only 279 at night.
We include big opening night

1455
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,960
reception with carving stations
and open bar included breakfast

1456
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:06,960
and lunch.
Real breakfast and lunch each

1457
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:11,880
day included with the general.
You get a big wine awards dinner

1458
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,360
included.
But our awards are purely just

1459
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,560
peers padding other peers on the
back.

1460
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:19,640
They can't be bought, can't be
purchased.

1461
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:21,520
A third party company handles
it.

1462
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,640
It's literally just you saying
you know what?

1463
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,120
What a concept.
This guy kicked ass.

1464
01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:30,000
We don't do a four hour long
award show.

1465
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,000
There's no acceptance speeches.
You come up, you take your

1466
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,960
picture, you get the fuck out.
You know, Congrats, but it's

1467
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,720
literally just to celebrate our
peers and nothing more.

1468
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,000
We don't try to add any other
weight to it or anything else

1469
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:44,360
like that.
So who?

1470
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:48,320
Who is it for?
I know it's called production

1471
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:52,320
live production Summit, but I
believe it's outside of

1472
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:54,520
production as well, right?
Like it's it's.

1473
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,000
Well, I don't know what you call
outside.

1474
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:01,360
Production also logistics.
Well, logistics are a heavy part

1475
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,840
of production logistics.
Are part of it.

1476
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,320
When you say.
When I think production, I think

1477
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,240
sound, lighting, video.
But OK, so to me, sound lighting

1478
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,400
video doesn't get there without
logistics.

1479
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:13,560
So logistics is a big part of
production to me.

1480
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,080
But so if you just look at our
sponsor list, you know, it

1481
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:18,120
pretty much tells you
everything.

1482
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,880
And so you've got everybody from
obviously every brand of ACT is

1483
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,200
in there, PK Sound, Avid, MA,
Airton, MDG.

1484
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:28,960
Then we got Pixel Hue, Nova
star, megapixel, dedicated

1485
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,640
absent Apollo jets on tour,
logistics on and on and on

1486
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,080
master tours there every year Co
presenting upstages, Co

1487
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,560
presenting, all show is Co
presenting.

1488
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,800
So what they all recognize about
LP's and the reason why we keep

1489
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:46,800
having return sponsors at this
level is because we are one of

1490
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:49,840
the ones that allow everybody to
attend.

1491
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,800
We don't charge more because
your competition or anything.

1492
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,320
We want everybody there for
healthy conversation.

1493
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,480
But we also believe that we
cover every single facet.

1494
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:02,200
So it's not just about you
possibly finding a business for

1495
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,560
finding business biz dev for
your company.

1496
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:06,800
You may find solutions for your
company.

1497
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,120
You may meet a new logistics
company to work with.

1498
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:14,120
You may meet a new vendor that
fills A niche that you have.

1499
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,800
So again, it's not just biz dev.
There is areas for you to help

1500
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:20,880
your business by other
businesses.

1501
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,720
Yeah.
And then of course, the future

1502
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,520
forward aspect where we grab
students from USCUCLA and

1503
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,880
everything else.
And we have some, luckily some

1504
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,960
very forward thinking sponsors
that even cover rooms for

1505
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,600
students to attend.
And we've had students, we had

1506
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:39,720
Danny Wimmer presents hired 6
students on property immediately

1507
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:41,920
and we get something to get
internships and everything else.

1508
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:46,080
So we, we nurture the idea.
We don't, they, they don't work

1509
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,800
the, the event.
They're not, you know, pointers

1510
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,560
or anything like that wearing AT
shirt.

1511
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:54,640
They're young peers and they
need to be treated that way as

1512
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,520
young peers, not free labor or
trade for their registration.

1513
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,640
I, I call that bullshit is what
I call that.

1514
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:02,800
If they're going to show up
their young peers, because you

1515
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:04,600
know what they are, they're
tomorrow's innovator, they're

1516
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,000
tomorrow's boss, they're
tomorrow's client.

1517
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,800
They're tomorrow period.
But if we're going to sit here

1518
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,720
and bitch about it, then let's
be a part of it.

1519
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,200
Let's be a part of helping them
be tomorrow.

1520
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,480
I like that.
That's the approach of LP's.

1521
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,040
And so your attendees are our
industry.

1522
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,360
Yes, everybody ever, from every
facet.

1523
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:26,520
Vendors.
Designers.

1524
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,440
Engineers, vendors.
So we have, we have big vendors

1525
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:33,480
upstage, you know is a vendor
obviously gateways, A vendor,

1526
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:35,960
both gateways for that matter
attend, you know what I mean.

1527
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,080
We get representatives from all
the others.

1528
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,640
So we get a bunch of vendors
there to meet because they're

1529
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,640
also there to speak to
manufacturers and as well as end

1530
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:46,480
user clients.
We get a lot of top TMS, PMS

1531
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,920
designers.
Our design panel is usually like

1532
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:54,520
a Rob Koenig and Cosmo Wilson or
a Tamlin, right?

1533
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:56,880
Or whatever.
Ours our design panel, you know

1534
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:58,800
what I mean?
Getting into the nits and gritty

1535
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:00,320
of it.
You know, we've got people

1536
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,440
chattel like a Fall Out Boy, Jim
Runge, all these people.

1537
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:06,400
And then we get all the younger,
you know, that are also coming

1538
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:10,000
up and coming in.
And then you get hotel reps, you

1539
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,520
get travel agents, you get
private jet companies, you get

1540
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,720
tour bus companies, logistics
companies, you get companies.

1541
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,480
One of the more innovative
things I've seen recently was a

1542
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:21,400
young lady who came up with a
product called Crowd Cushion

1543
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,960
that when I found her at this
little trade show in the corner

1544
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,360
and I was like, God, you are
not.

1545
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,640
You should not be here.
And I gave her a free booth her

1546
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:32,240
first year at LP's because I was
so wowed by her tenacity.

1547
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:34,000
Because that's something I
believe you can't teach.

1548
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,440
Can't teach gumption.
You have it or you don't O this

1549
01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:41,560
young lady came U with a slip
that goes over barricades and

1550
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:45,360
has hundreds of sensors in it an
it is triggered to set off

1551
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,000
warnings and alarms for crowd
crush.

1552
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:55,440
Yes, absolutely brilliant called
crowd cushion and I and I

1553
01:17:55,440 --> 01:17:58,480
immediately introduced her to a
good friend of mine AD Anthony

1554
01:17:58,480 --> 01:18:01,640
Davis AD security, who I don't
know if you know, but he's he's

1555
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:04,160
pretty high end and he quickly
got involved and it's just like

1556
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,320
then you realize that these
could be branded if you wanted

1557
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,680
to be, but they're still serving
an incredible purpose because

1558
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:15,600
now we have we now have a pre
warning of crowd cush in some

1559
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:17,080
way.
I'm not saying it's perfect, of

1560
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:20,280
course not, but it's more than
we ever had before.

1561
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:23,400
That to me is innovation.
And it was innovation that she

1562
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:27,440
came up with, just caring about
the community of live events.

1563
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:29,640
And I went, I will champion this
all day long.

1564
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:31,920
Yeah.
She solved the problem she did.

1565
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:33,680
And that's those are my favorite
products.

1566
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,960
They're the ones that solve
problems like that's right.

1567
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,040
I have businesses come to me all
the time saying, do you think

1568
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,280
this is a good idea?
And my question is always what

1569
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:43,960
problem are you solving?
Yeah, what do you solve?

1570
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:45,800
Answer that for me.
And when it's.

1571
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:47,280
Safety.
It's a terrible idea.

1572
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:48,880
When it's safety, it's
incredible.

1573
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:53,080
Like I years ago I started
building triage cases for our

1574
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,920
industry and they have AE, DS,
chest compressors, Truss rat,

1575
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,480
everything you can imagine in a
road case.

1576
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,680
And I'd hoped by now I'd have a
bunch of, I mean, this is years

1577
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:06,320
later in Def Leppard bottom and
Kiss bottom.

1578
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,240
And Motley Crue's got one and
Megan Maroney's got one of mine

1579
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:11,520
out there and Chappelle had one
out there and they're all over

1580
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:13,080
the place.
And I thought I'd have a bunch

1581
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:18,440
of competition by now, but Nope.
Because unfortunately and I,

1582
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:22,360
I'm, I think my record is well
documented about mental health

1583
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:24,160
and safety and security in this
industry.

1584
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:29,000
But we still treat safety and
security as a line item.

1585
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:32,840
And that's problematic.
And most people don't realize

1586
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,920
that ad shows 9 times out of 10
or yeah, I may be exaggerating

1587
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:40,000
that, but I'm not far off.
I guarantee it that paramedics

1588
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,440
aren't scheduled till doors.
Yeah. 90% of the problem happens

1589
01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:48,400
at load in or load out.
Yeah, you know what I mean?

1590
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,320
And so it's kind of like, look,
you know, and especially me, you

1591
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:53,160
know, I've experienced heart
attacks on the road.

1592
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:55,400
I've had other people.
I've lost, unfortunately, crew

1593
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,640
members on the road.
I've lost other people and fans

1594
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,440
on the road at shows.
I mean, and it's just one of

1595
01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:03,600
those things when you're doing
high capacity events for X

1596
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,280
amount of decades.
The law of average means you're

1597
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:07,760
going to experience a bunch of
this shit.

1598
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,480
Like when we go into a festival,
you know that when you put X

1599
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:12,680
amount of people in a space,
you're going to have X amount of

1600
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,880
sprained ankles, X amount of
dehydration, exhaustion,

1601
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:17,080
whatever.
You're going to deal with it.

1602
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,280
But why not be more prepared?
I used to say, well, I'd really

1603
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,360
like 6 EMTs.
Well, Chris, you can get away

1604
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:24,240
with two.
And it's like, you know what, 2

1605
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:27,160
are great until they're on the
other side of 25,000 people and

1606
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:31,280
I need them because again, it's
a line item so it's being all.

1607
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:35,240
Funny, my my sons a racing
driver and we were at a race one

1608
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:39,960
time in I don't even remember
Ocala Ocala, FL, Florida sure

1609
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,640
racetrack there.
And so one of my good friends,

1610
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:47,240
one of the other fathers had a
heart attack.

1611
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:51,920
And the only reason he lived was
because they had an ambulance

1612
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:55,600
there when they weren't required
to by law or by the insurance

1613
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,080
agreements or whatever.
But it was because the owner of

1614
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,120
the track believed in having an
ambulance.

1615
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:03,040
There you go.
And they stopped the race and

1616
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:04,960
the ambulance took care of this
guy.

1617
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,880
And he told him flat out, if if
if we weren't here, you were

1618
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:11,320
dead because the the 12 minutes
to the hospital, you wouldn't

1619
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:12,440
have survived.
Yeah, that's right.

1620
01:21:12,440 --> 01:21:16,600
And and that blew my mind.
I mean, and it was just the the

1621
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,880
consciousness of this person who
owned the track to make sure

1622
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:20,760
that there was an.
Ambulance.

1623
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,080
Well, we, we still push back.
I like, OK, let's take and I get

1624
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:27,320
that you can't cover everything,
but let's look at certain levels

1625
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:29,640
of subterfuge here.
That OK.

1626
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:32,640
The crew walks through metal
detectors, fans walk through

1627
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:35,600
metal detectors, but none of the
buses or trucks do.

1628
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:39,840
That's interesting.
Yeah, good point.

1629
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,960
Yeah, Who are we more worried
about too there, you know?

1630
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:47,240
Well, look, I put a lot of.
Bad shit in a truck, do you?

1631
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:50,760
Really believe that there are no
crews out there that carry.

1632
01:21:51,440 --> 01:21:55,800
You're kidding yourself.
Yeah, that's true.

1633
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,640
I know people who do.
I know I have friends who are on

1634
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:00,080
the road.
But they also know you can just

1635
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,480
put it in a lighting case.
Nobody's searching that truck on

1636
01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:04,160
its way in, and then it's in.
Right.

1637
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:05,800
Yeah.
Right, You know what I mean?

1638
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:09,840
So it's like now I get it that,
you know, making some dent is a

1639
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:13,440
dent and I champion that, but
please don't tell me Oh no, it's

1640
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:16,680
rock solid when it's like, no,
it's not, you know, I mean, it

1641
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:20,160
just can't be at that level.
You know, like a lot of, I

1642
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,480
remember when it first came in
with, especially with detectors,

1643
01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:25,200
people were pissed off because,
well, we can't make them wait

1644
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:27,000
that long.
We we need well, then buy more

1645
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:28,680
metal.
No, they're too expensive.

1646
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:34,280
It's like, OK, look, you know.
Yeah, back-to-back to LP's Live

1647
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:37,240
Production Summit.
So I, I have to admit I don't

1648
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:39,960
think I've been there since it's
been named Live Production

1649
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:41,760
Summit.
I, I had been at Tour Link a

1650
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:46,720
couple times in the past and so
I'm going to go next year and

1651
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,600
for a lot of reasons, one,
everyone keeps telling me I need

1652
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,840
to be there and I love those
networking.

1653
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,440
Types, I'll set you up a booth
and you could do some live

1654
01:22:54,440 --> 01:22:56,240
interviews there.
Perfect.

1655
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:57,680
Let's do it.
Got you.

1656
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:00,040
So I'm I'm committing here on
the air.

1657
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,000
I will be at live Production
Summit next year.

1658
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,120
So I'll go on your website or
something and figure out how to.

1659
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:10,960
Sign We'll welcome you there.
And and then secondly, so you're

1660
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,760
obviously planning the event for
next year.

1661
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,320
Is there anything new or
surprising or?

1662
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:17,920
Exciting.
So this see this is the thing

1663
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:23,240
about it that we don't we just
create a palette for this

1664
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:27,120
industry to use.
We don't push any particular

1665
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:30,040
narrative because that would be
disingenuous in my opinion.

1666
01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:35,280
OK, so really what it is is come
January, it gives everybody a

1667
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:39,320
chance to talk about what they
experienced the previous year in

1668
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:43,040
its entirety, what needs to be
dealt with or talked about for

1669
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,200
moving forward.
That can't be predicted mid

1670
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,360
year.
So there's no point trying.

1671
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,440
If you want to keep genuine
communal conversation, then you

1672
01:23:51,440 --> 01:23:55,520
need to let it actually be
genuine communal conversation.

1673
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:59,720
And what ends up happening is
again, you just get everybody

1674
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:02,040
from every facet, every
perspective.

1675
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:07,680
Everybody's allowed to speak.
Now, again, if you're hateful

1676
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:10,560
speech or any of that bullshit,
I will personally escort you off

1677
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,320
the property.
But we've never had that issue.

1678
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:16,440
What we have are people that
literally want to come and they

1679
01:24:16,440 --> 01:24:19,120
have something to say.
There's no dumb questions.

1680
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,920
We have a lot of people whose
badge will have a little symbol

1681
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:23,720
on it that says they're willing
to be a mentor.

1682
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:26,160
If somebody needs a mentor, that
they're willing to give their

1683
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:28,040
time.
But again, look, if you don't

1684
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:29,440
ask the question, you don't
know.

1685
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:32,240
Your question may spark a
conversation that creates

1686
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,360
innovation.
So all questions are welcome.

1687
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:39,200
Everybody has a voice.
So there is no like, oh, is

1688
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:40,920
there something new?
Well, there's something new

1689
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:43,720
every year because we deal with
something new every year, you

1690
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:46,760
know what I mean?
So it's always we again, it's a

1691
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:50,440
platform for everybody to use.
I will say that some of the

1692
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:53,480
vendors or some of the
manufacturers and sponsors, when

1693
01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:56,200
they come to me, they're like,
you know, and I always strive to

1694
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,560
like, well, have we seen it or
not simply, you know, bring

1695
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:00,200
something new.
And so there was this one

1696
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:02,760
company that got a hold of me, a
new salt laser.

1697
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,000
And if you look online, you'll
see the pictures of it.

1698
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:09,800
And this laser cannon shoots 27
miles.

1699
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,640
And it's kind of, yeah, it's
kind of funny that there were

1700
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:16,880
people flying in and seeing it
past their plane, like up into

1701
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:18,440
the sky, taking pictures of it
going.

1702
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:20,360
That's got to be LP's.
It's got to.

1703
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:22,920
And then they land at the
airport and they're driving and

1704
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:25,920
they're driving towards that 27
Mile High beam.

1705
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,400
And they get there and they go,
God, it is.

1706
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:29,280
This is one of the funniest
things.

1707
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:36,040
One of the whatever Valley UFO
sightings or whatever, there had

1708
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:37,720
a whole page going crazy about
it.

1709
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:41,440
There were people from all over
the valley driving to it to find

1710
01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:44,520
out what the hell is that, You
know what I mean?

1711
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,040
And I was like, now see there,
there's innovation that got a

1712
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:48,920
bunch of people's attention, you
know what I mean?

1713
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:53,240
So we're always looking for new.
We're always looking to talk

1714
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:56,760
about tomorrow.
We're always looking to educate

1715
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:01,200
not just others but ourselves,
so I can't say what's new I'm

1716
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:02,400
looking forward to.
What is it?

1717
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:03,440
2 days?
Three days.

1718
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,720
So we do.
We have a golf tournament, so

1719
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:10,440
basically Wednesday night we
have a sponsor and then golf

1720
01:26:10,440 --> 01:26:12,920
party everybody together just
for golf.

1721
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:16,640
The next morning is a shotgun
start with prizes, golf game,

1722
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,880
shotgun round.
We usually get about 75 golfers

1723
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,920
on average, again from all walks
of the industry.

1724
01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:26,720
And then that night, Thursday
night is opening night reception

1725
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,480
where we've got carving
stations.

1726
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:31,360
It's a ridiculous amount of food
open bar.

1727
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,280
It's in our little we don't
really like to call it a trade

1728
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:37,360
show floor because it's kind of
not, but we put a four sided

1729
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:39,600
open bar in the middle of it and
you got all the booths.

1730
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:42,560
And well, again, when you look
at the brand alignment of a of a

1731
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:46,200
Sennheiser Netgear ABS and you
know, these are these are bigger

1732
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:48,200
names that are they're doing
their thing right.

1733
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:53,400
And then the next morning we do,
we don't do any keynote speakers

1734
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:56,560
because again, this isn't about
like the not to dis.

1735
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:58,720
I won't even mention anything.
Not that, you know, somebody

1736
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,000
coming out, Oh, you're going to
take hold of the day and all

1737
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:02,040
that.
No, we don't do any of that

1738
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:04,080
shit.
What we do is we give everybody

1739
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:07,000
that has a panel or a focus
panel a couple minutes to give

1740
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:09,560
the entire crowd a synopsis of
what they're going to be talking

1741
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:11,600
about.
Because you can kind of get it

1742
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,960
by reading a, you know, on the
on the site of what it's about.

1743
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,560
But now you get to see the
person's vibe that might be

1744
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:19,400
presenting it.
They may say something like, you

1745
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:20,600
know what, I want to, I want to
go see that.

1746
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:24,240
And we find that to be more
powerful than somebody trying to

1747
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:26,520
give some speech on positivity
or whatever else.

1748
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:27,800
I mean, we hope everybody's
positive.

1749
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:31,280
Of course we push a positive by,
but let's talk about what we're

1750
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:33,120
here to talk about.
Meet the people that are going

1751
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:35,640
to be talking.
Then we break into sessions.

1752
01:27:36,440 --> 01:27:39,520
Then that night, usually Friday
night, is the Master Tour

1753
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:43,560
Awards, which are an interesting
one because theirs are databased

1754
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:45,200
only.
There's no voting.

1755
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:49,680
They have the largest data.
They have 85,000 monthly users

1756
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:51,960
master tour.
So they can tell you the most

1757
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:56,440
used hotel, the most used venue,
the favorite venue by

1758
01:27:56,440 --> 01:28:00,440
attendance, the pre production
facility, who was the most, you

1759
01:28:00,440 --> 01:28:03,560
know, user that puts in the most
information, which was a dear

1760
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:05,960
friend of mine, Eric Frankhouser
a couple of years ago, which

1761
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:09,360
makes total sense.
Detail orientated guy, great

1762
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:11,480
guy.
But it's so there's this data

1763
01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:13,880
centric only.
And then the next morning,

1764
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:18,520
again, we go back into panels
and then we have a reception

1765
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:21,400
that goes into the awards dinner
where we celebrate our peers and

1766
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,120
we cap the night out that way
and then we're done.

1767
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:27,320
So those playing golf show up
Wednesday, those not show up

1768
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:30,520
Thursday and leave Sunday.
Oh, OK, cool.

1769
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,600
Yeah, that sounds like an
incredible.

1770
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:36,360
Weekend and it's all at a
beautiful Palm Springs resort.

1771
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,320
And again, we we negotiated the
room so low.

1772
01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:41,400
There's no Uber.
You don't have to stay on

1773
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:44,480
property 279.
This place is normally 600 a

1774
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:47,360
night.
So 279 to stay on property at

1775
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:51,800
the resort and we're feeding you
the different tiers are it's a

1776
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:56,160
full price is 800 with the
awards dinner, 600 without the

1777
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:59,440
awards dinner.
However, every one of our

1778
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:02,680
sponsors has negotiated some
level of discount.

1779
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,360
So whoever your favorite sponsor
is, get a hold of them.

1780
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:08,320
They've got a discount code.
Some of them can get it down,

1781
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:11,680
including like Master Tour has
the biggest unprecedented

1782
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:16,640
discount of $200 off that they
actually pre purchased for

1783
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:18,520
people you know to try and
celebrate it.

1784
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,320
That's cool.
And what's your attendance?

1785
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:22,760
Is it like hundreds or?
Thousands.

1786
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:23,840
It's hundreds.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1787
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,880
We don't, we would never want it
to get to thousands because

1788
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:31,520
again, it loses its personal
kind of, you know what I mean?

1789
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:33,960
And again, we're at a resort.
So everybody goes, well, you

1790
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,280
know, because there's all these
different things that claim, oh,

1791
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:38,640
we're sold out.
I wouldn't know how to say I

1792
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:40,520
sold out.
I have an entire resort.

1793
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,280
I guess I could say that I can't
fit any more people in the

1794
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:46,040
ballroom.
But I I, you know, I would never

1795
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:48,960
get into the marketing of hurry
now or sold.

1796
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:52,000
Yeah, again, it's it's just
disingenuine to me.

1797
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:53,480
We, we, we don't play those
games.

1798
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:56,280
It's the non cell cell.
Yeah, we don't do that shit.

1799
01:29:56,720 --> 01:29:59,800
Yeah, that's not us.
Like we're we're 100% about

1800
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,560
championing vibe.
We're all about positive vibes.

1801
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,960
That's if it's not a positive
vibe even I'm out.

1802
01:30:06,480 --> 01:30:11,240
Well, and I've heard from all of
my friends, you know, that it's

1803
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:14,200
it, you got to go to it.
You know, everyone keeps telling

1804
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,840
me you got to go to it, but I'm
not really a vendor, you know,

1805
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:18,080
so you.
Don't have to be a.

1806
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,160
Vendor and I'm not really a
customer either, you know I.

1807
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:25,680
Don't have to be.
Platforms and so, but I just

1808
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,240
like all the people you know,
It's the same reason I go to

1809
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:29,880
the.
Well, you could learn.

1810
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:33,120
Look, I don't you have this show
right anymore, but you have this

1811
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,920
show, which means you could
learn so much more topical

1812
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:39,840
content by attending that it
just furthers the show.

1813
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:40,960
I.
Already know everything.

1814
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,840
Well, you're one of those,
that's right.

1815
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:45,200
You did say you're in lighting,
right?

1816
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:46,400
You did say you're in lighting
there.

1817
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:48,760
There is a delusion amongst
people in lighting.

1818
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:53,600
Here we go, here we go.
So you also, because you have

1819
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:56,840
lots of free time, you you're at
OSA still too.

1820
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,560
Right.
So I this is again another, I am

1821
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:04,440
actually not an employee of
OSAI, am contracted by OSA.

1822
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:09,040
Yeah, I'm contracted by LP's.
I have been my own entity

1823
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:10,640
forever.
I've actually never been an

1824
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:14,800
employee.
It's purposeful because it

1825
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,600
allows either my clients or me.
But I will say this that I don't

1826
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:24,520
have any blips on my timelines.
Everywhere I'm at is for years.

1827
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:27,400
Other than, of course, the
obligatory bands that schedules

1828
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:28,920
don't line up and you move to
the next band.

1829
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:31,760
That's considered normal.
But stuff like this now there's

1830
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,560
no blips.
But I'm contracted by OSA as

1831
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:38,320
their chief innovation officer
because I'm a Toys-R-Us kid.

1832
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:41,880
They do get the byproduct of my
tours just from relationships.

1833
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,200
So my touring clients, be it
Limp Bizkit, Megan Maroney, or

1834
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:47,920
when it was Chappelle or things
like that that come through me.

1835
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:50,920
Again, it's it's just byproducts
of my relationship with OSA.

1836
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:56,200
And look, to me, Mario is a very
astute individual who if you

1837
01:31:56,200 --> 01:31:59,320
look at OS as history, there is
no equity group, there's no VC,

1838
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:02,720
it's one guy, there's no board.
When you want to talk to the

1839
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:04,920
owner, it's Mario that calls you
up and talks to you.

1840
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:08,720
You know what I mean?
The entire place, he's got 100

1841
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:14,000
and 25,000 square feet in Vegas,
65,000 Nashville, 35,000 in

1842
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:17,840
Chicago, and he runs it all with
less than 100 full time

1843
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:21,880
employees and it's just him.
Yeah, that's wild.

1844
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:25,360
So, and he's very, he's very
accommodating.

1845
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,680
I, I, I have deep amount of
gratitude because he, he doesn't

1846
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,680
micromanage either.
And when it comes to LP's, he's

1847
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:34,560
allowed me, like when I came up
with future forward, I had to

1848
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:36,000
call him 'cause it was going to
cost him money.

1849
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:38,360
I said, look, you know, not only
do I want to give him free

1850
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:40,640
registration, I still want them
to be able to eat food, their

1851
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:43,880
students and Mario, he
immediately went, yeah, but it's

1852
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,160
for a great 'cause no, do it,
you know what I mean?

1853
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:48,600
So that we could give students
an opportunity to attend

1854
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:52,600
something for free at this level
and, and find work and, and

1855
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:57,240
learn was huge on his part.
The name change he he understood

1856
01:32:57,240 --> 01:33:01,880
and and he championed the no
fatiguing signage everywhere or

1857
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,480
timeshare pitch approach.
He agreed.

1858
01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:06,840
And we can't say we're a
conference.

1859
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:10,680
We can't say we're a trade show.
What we'd like to say is we're

1860
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:15,280
a, we're a big networking event
that takes place on a beautiful

1861
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:18,880
resort at a perfect time of year
that you just get to hang out

1862
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:21,280
with everybody in January, right
January.

1863
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:25,040
January, OK.
January in Palm Springs, where

1864
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,760
it's like there's worse places
to be depending on where you are

1865
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:31,080
than Palm Springs in January.
Before or after Nam?

1866
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:33,600
It's we're eight through 10
before.

1867
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:35,560
OK.
Yeah, we're 8.

1868
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:37,000
I'm going to go.
I'm going to be there.

1869
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:39,480
Yeah, we're eight through 10,
but you'll find that it's not.

1870
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,520
It's hard for people to explain
to other people, and it took us

1871
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,760
a little while for people that
did attend to tell other people

1872
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:47,880
going, look, you just gotta go.
And then you'll, when you walk

1873
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,640
into it, you'll go get it.
Got it.

1874
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:52,920
OK, here it is.
This is a different kind of

1875
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:54,200
deal.
You know what I mean?

1876
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,760
Yeah.
Yeah.

1877
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:57,720
And we championed that.
We love that.

1878
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:01,000
So many of my friends are
constantly like Cosmo.

1879
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:02,800
Last year, I remember he called
me from the airport.

1880
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:03,960
He's like, you're going to be
there, right?

1881
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:05,760
And I said, no, no, I'm not.
And he's like.

1882
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:08,480
I love Cosmo.
Yeah, Cosmo Chan, you know, and

1883
01:34:08,480 --> 01:34:11,560
he's a he's a staple each year.
And you know him and I go back a

1884
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,640
lot of years.
It's it's something that when I

1885
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:19,320
was tapped to be director and
again, I, I feel very fortunate

1886
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,720
to have Mario a lot because
Mario, this is the other thing.

1887
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,240
For years we didn't even mention
OSA because we didn't want

1888
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:27,840
anybody to get the wrong idea
thinking this is to push OSA

1889
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:31,880
when it's absolutely not.
It champions every vendor and

1890
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:34,960
you see vendors as sponsors.
And here's the approach was, is

1891
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:39,440
that whatever I was short that I
didn't get from sponsors or

1892
01:34:39,440 --> 01:34:43,040
whatever else gear or whatever
else OSA would cover as their

1893
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:45,800
sponsorship, that's how it's
been approached.

1894
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:49,480
It's never been to push OSA.
It's never been OSA centric.

1895
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:52,480
We've never had OSA people
pushing panels.

1896
01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:54,880
There's never been an OSA panel.
It wouldn't work.

1897
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,000
It wouldn't work if you did.
It wouldn't.

1898
01:34:57,240 --> 01:34:59,600
And really, what Mario?
It wouldn't work.

1899
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,600
Yeah, Mario Champions, all the
other vendors of Let's get

1900
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:05,280
together, let's know each other
better, Let's work again.

1901
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,720
It's not competition, it's
colleagues.

1902
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:10,720
The more they the vendors work
together, the stronger they all

1903
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:13,640
are.
So it's never going to be OSA

1904
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:15,640
centric.
It's never going to be in house

1905
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:19,080
vendor centric.
This is open for everybody at

1906
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:21,760
the same price point.
Everybody offered the same

1907
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:25,360
experience without the fatiguing
normal bullshit.

1908
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:29,040
I like it.
You know, we didn't talk about

1909
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:30,920
ticket prices.
Oh.

1910
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:33,960
And, and we didn't talk about
ticketing companies and we

1911
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:35,520
didn't talk about some of those
things.

1912
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:37,560
So we might have to do this
again someday because.

1913
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:40,640
I'm look, I'm easy to find.
I will say this though, that the

1914
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:45,040
project industry we need to be
and we can be a little more

1915
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:48,760
pragmatic and we cannot sit here
and say well, we've got nothing

1916
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:52,080
to do with ticket prices, check.
Yourself, I agree with you.

1917
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:56,680
I we 100% have a lot to do.
Everything adds a little bit to

1918
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:58,320
well.
Like I said earlier, when you

1919
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:01,400
have every department that's a
Toys-R-Us kid out for themselves

1920
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:03,720
and just throw in their line
item at what they say and they

1921
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:07,240
never see the cumulative number
of what it you know, they only

1922
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:09,600
know their department, worry
about their department.

1923
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:14,400
I do miss back when if we had
somebody sick on the bus, the

1924
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:17,960
rest of us were had strong
enough fundamentals to absorb

1925
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,440
their job for a day or two
because they're, they're no good

1926
01:36:20,440 --> 01:36:23,760
to a sick nowadays.
What I hear a lot unfortunately

1927
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:25,520
is I'm not doing that.
That's not my job.

1928
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,400
You're going to pay me more and
we're creating a bunch of 1

1929
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,440
trick ponies.
It's kind of like if an audio

1930
01:36:30,440 --> 01:36:32,200
guy says, well, I only mix on
that console.

1931
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:34,840
Well, all you told me is you
only know that console, you know

1932
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:36,640
what I mean?
It's kind of like, so I, I do

1933
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:40,160
think we could go back to being
a little more of team player on

1934
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:41,840
that front.
You know, it used to be that

1935
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:43,640
when you finish just your gig,
you went to every other

1936
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,160
department head and said can I
help?

1937
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:47,600
You know what I mean?
And until they all said no.

1938
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:49,760
Then you fucked off back to the
bus and did whatever.

1939
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:52,600
Now it's just how.
Many times I hear that on this

1940
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:55,720
podcast, like, you know, if I
ask someone like.

1941
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:58,640
A We're all geezers like.
Featherstone or like any of

1942
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:02,840
these people, if I say, you
know, what's the secret and and

1943
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:05,800
they'll say, you know, say yes
and then figure it out.

1944
01:37:06,480 --> 01:37:08,280
Well, that's a great point,
though.

1945
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:10,920
I don't say yes or no.
What I was taught and what I

1946
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,960
champion and what I like to
teach is you never say no to a

1947
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:16,840
client.
What you say is let me look into

1948
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:20,000
it for you, put together all the
facts into what we call a

1949
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:23,800
feasibility report, give the
client the feasibility report,

1950
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:26,760
and then it's them saying no or
yes.

1951
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:28,560
You've never answered the
question.

1952
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:32,760
You've only provided them more
information for them to answer

1953
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,480
and make that decision.
You never tell a client.

1954
01:37:35,480 --> 01:37:38,680
Different spin for sure, yeah.
Well, it's look, there's an old

1955
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:41,560
funny story about Prince, right?
I mean, granted, you walk in any

1956
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:43,920
room and say who's been fired by
Prince and everybody's going to

1957
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,120
raise their hand except for
except for maybe Takumi Saguchi.

1958
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:50,160
And I love Takumi, but he's
probably the only one that never

1959
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:52,840
got fired from Prince.
But there was a a great story,

1960
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:55,040
and it's a true story that back
in the day, Prince is on the

1961
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,160
stage and this is about
lighting, as a matter of fact.

1962
01:37:57,160 --> 01:37:58,760
And he calls the guy over.
He goes, hey, can we?

1963
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:01,240
And the guy goes, no.
And Prince just put his head

1964
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:03,240
down.
He goes, So in the time I asked

1965
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:05,960
that question and you said no,
you checked with the vendor, the

1966
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:08,560
manufacturer and everybody else
involved, and you just know this

1967
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:11,040
can't happen.
Fired.

1968
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:16,800
You know, Prince Prince was in
Miami one time for a he was

1969
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,040
opening a glam slam club in
Miami.

1970
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:24,640
And a friend of mine was was the
designer of the club and I

1971
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:27,200
happened to be there because I
was supplying a lot of lighting

1972
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:31,400
for it.
And the artist was there.

1973
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:35,040
And I got invited to lunch with
the artist.

1974
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:38,800
And I don't remember if it was
his manager or a manager or

1975
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:41,480
something, my buddy and a couple
other people.

1976
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:45,320
And so I asked the manager guy.
I said, so you know, this is

1977
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:47,680
right after he did the whole
name change thing.

1978
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:51,800
And I said, what do I call him?
And he said you don't.

1979
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:56,200
And I said, but what if What if
I want to say, hey, so and so,

1980
01:38:56,480 --> 01:38:59,600
you know, have you ever thought
about this or that or whatever?

1981
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:01,440
And you don't know You don't do
that.

1982
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,560
Yeah.
And I'm like, well, that's just

1983
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:06,320
fucking weird, you know?
Like, well, some people call him

1984
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:09,080
something.
Yeah, it, it, it does seem weird

1985
01:39:09,080 --> 01:39:12,440
on the face, but it's kind of,
you know, in the, in the times I

1986
01:39:12,440 --> 01:39:14,760
was lucky enough to be in the
presence of him doing his

1987
01:39:14,760 --> 01:39:18,320
production because I mean, I
still tell him as one of the top

1988
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:20,000
guitarists to ever walk the
earth.

1989
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:23,000
Fantastic and composer rated
guitarist.

1990
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:28,000
Oh yeah, beyond underrated.
But anyway, he, he had a certain

1991
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,280
way of working that worked for
him, that there were certain

1992
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:33,920
familiar people that said things
in a manner that were easily

1993
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,280
digested by him.
So that's how he filtered

1994
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:38,440
things.
Because otherwise, if somebody

1995
01:39:38,440 --> 01:39:40,840
at his stature did open it up,
he'd be getting noise from all

1996
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:42,880
different directions.
And he would just, you know, he

1997
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:44,960
was too much of an introvert.
He would have freaked out on

1998
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:46,680
that.
It's kind of like acts.

1999
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:48,640
A lot of people have a lot to
say about Axel Rose.

2000
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:51,480
I'll say that Axl Rose is one of
the most honest, straightforward

2001
01:39:51,480 --> 01:39:53,880
people I've ever met.
Now, granted, you cross him and

2002
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:57,560
you get the other Axl Rose, but
without crossing him.

2003
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,520
He has a huge heart.
He's incredibly generous.

2004
01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:03,120
He's a great conversationalist,
you know what I mean?

2005
01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:05,640
So again, it's what narrative
gets pushed about him.

2006
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:09,600
However, he's also very cautious
about how information is

2007
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:11,840
delivered to him.
Because back in the days when

2008
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:13,680
everybody goes, Oh well, you
know, artists like that are

2009
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:16,280
reclusive.
Well, we actually forced them

2010
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:19,320
into only being able to hang out
in the Maldives and places

2011
01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:21,680
because if they walked into a
grocery store they'd never get

2012
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:23,600
out alive.
And then we super.

2013
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:25,560
Stardom.
Yeah, but then we bitch about

2014
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:27,280
them of like, oh, they're so
standoffish.

2015
01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:29,160
It's like.
So many people talk shit about

2016
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:31,880
Michael Jackson.
You know how he was so weird?

2017
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:35,640
But he was a little.
Like, no, but I mean still like

2018
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:37,840
from what, five years old or?
Something, yeah, but no.

2019
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:41,120
So I said that tongue in cheek
because here's the deal again.

2020
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,360
If it was easy, everybody do it.
You have to be a little touched

2021
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:45,600
or just, let's call it what it
is.

2022
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:49,120
You have to be a little fucked
up to be that level of creative

2023
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:53,240
and that big a star.
If it was easy again, everybody

2024
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:54,480
would do it.
You know what, though?

2025
01:40:54,480 --> 01:40:59,120
So quick story one time.
So I had a bunch of lights on

2026
01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:03,400
Michael Jackson for his European
opening show, which was in

2027
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:07,680
Prague and huge show, 125,000
people.

2028
01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:11,400
And I was going to, I think it
was the Plaza show or something,

2029
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:13,320
and I was taking Tim Brennan
with me.

2030
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:15,760
Do you do you remember?
I do, yeah.

2031
01:41:16,120 --> 01:41:19,560
So I was taking Tim Brennan with
me and I was Martin at the time.

2032
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:25,000
And so we flew over there.
We went to the show first before

2033
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:29,200
we went to Plaza.
And at the show, Peter Morris

2034
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:31,000
says, hey, do you want to go
meet the artist?

2035
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:34,560
And I said, yeah, that'd be fun.
And so Tim and I go backstage

2036
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:39,360
and and Michael comes up to us
and and he was introduced to we

2037
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:42,280
were introduced to him as a
couple of Americans who flew

2038
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:46,840
over to see his opening show.
And he was so grateful.

2039
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:50,240
He was like, thank you so much.
I appreciate you coming all this

2040
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:52,120
distance to come and see my
show.

2041
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:54,320
And I really appreciate you.
Thank you.

2042
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:57,720
Like he was practically bowing
to us and I was uncomfortable.

2043
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:00,200
Like it was just, I couldn't
believe it because I'm in the

2044
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:04,600
presence of, you know, the king
of Bop and but just the nice.

2045
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:07,240
I love, I love those
experiences.

2046
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:10,680
You know, like Fred Durst and I,
you know, when I come in, Fred

2047
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:12,920
will make a point, come over,
give me a hug.

2048
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:16,160
And you know, I always walk way.
And then I used to watch Dickie,

2049
01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:20,200
who, you know, Dickie had been
out there for so long and people

2050
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:22,480
didn't understand the the
history of The Allman Brothers,

2051
01:42:22,480 --> 01:42:25,640
the way they look.
They were a, a long haired band

2052
01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:29,680
in the South with a black
drummer in the late 60s and

2053
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:31,000
early 70s.
Wow.

2054
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,840
You want to talk about a band
that fought their way up and had

2055
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,160
10 minute instrumentals?
You know what I mean?

2056
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:38,800
And, and, and shit like that and
became The Allman Brothers band.

2057
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:43,520
But I've seen him love his fans
and he always did.

2058
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:44,920
And he had a great respect for
his fans.

2059
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:47,040
And he got into long car.
He didn't invite him on the bus

2060
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:49,400
and talk for hours.
We'd be late to pull out because

2061
01:42:49,400 --> 01:42:50,760
he's having a great
conversation.

2062
01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:53,920
But then, you know, you also get
the ones that just show up with

2063
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,120
the pickguard that you know is
going to end up on eBay or you

2064
01:42:57,120 --> 01:42:58,720
had some like, here's a funny
story.

2065
01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:01,840
We had these people banging on
the bus door and Dickie was kind

2066
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:03,920
of like irritated by and he
opens and they go, well, we're

2067
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:05,920
Dicky's biggest fans.
We got to talk to him.

2068
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:08,840
We got to talk to him.
And Dickie's like, oh, he just

2069
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:10,000
left.
He already left at the hotel.

2070
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:11,400
And they're like, oh really,
man?

2071
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:14,760
And they don't even realize, you
know, we're the.

2072
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:17,440
Biggest fans, but we don't even
recognize him standing right in.

2073
01:43:17,440 --> 01:43:19,920
Front they don't even stand here
in the in the wheel well of the

2074
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:21,680
bus.
So you know, they deal with a

2075
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:27,560
lot and they do need to control
and have a filter about how

2076
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:30,960
information comes to them.
And some of them are still

2077
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:36,040
incredibly have a lot of stage
fright still, regardless how big

2078
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:38,760
they get, you know what I mean?
And they have to get themselves

2079
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:42,600
in that frame of mind.
You know, look, Fred Durst, Fred

2080
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:45,400
Durst still has to become Fred
Durst of the 90s.

2081
01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:46,840
That's what the fans want to
see.

2082
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:50,120
Yeah, of course.
Speaking of Fred Durst, the the

2083
01:43:50,120 --> 01:43:53,160
bass player.
Just we we lost, we did lose Sam

2084
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:54,960
2 days ago.
That was an obviously you.

2085
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:57,000
Didn't realize he was only 48
years old.

2086
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:58,360
I thought he would have been
older but.

2087
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:01,000
Now he's younger than me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, years younger

2088
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:02,680
than me.
But yeah, that was a, it was

2089
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:06,600
obviously hit the camp hard.
Everybody right now is just kind

2090
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:08,200
of taking their time to, you
know?

2091
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:10,960
Was he original?
Like was he there?

2092
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:12,640
From the yes, yeah.
Wow.

2093
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:15,920
He, he stepped away for health
reasons for a brief amount of

2094
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:20,280
time and then came back and, you
know, it's, yeah, I, I, I don't

2095
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:21,680
want to, you know, talk out of
school.

2096
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,680
Let's just say that the whole
camp is of course shell shocked,

2097
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:29,000
as anybody would be, and they're
taking their private time to to

2098
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:32,680
reflect and and get through.
It it's a hard life, man.

2099
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:36,920
You know, being on the road,
being in a rock band, being, you

2100
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:39,240
know, you're supposed to be a
hard ass and you're supposed to

2101
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:41,240
be tough and you're supposed to
be all these things.

2102
01:44:41,240 --> 01:44:44,640
But at the end of the day, you
know you only got 1 body and.

2103
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:48,240
You know, you know, I've heard
that being put around a lot that

2104
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:50,280
everybody says, oh, you have to
be this hard, tough ass.

2105
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:53,160
I, I don't believe that's true.
I believe that what they're

2106
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:56,560
referring to is, is I do believe
there was a difference of

2107
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:59,240
generations.
And I do believe those, you

2108
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,680
know, born in the 60s and 70s.
I do believe that we, you know,

2109
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:06,400
look, we grew up fist fighting
in school was a normal thing.

2110
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:09,160
We grew up without the seatbelts
and you could talk about all the

2111
01:45:09,160 --> 01:45:11,840
ad nauseam kind of points that
were made, but it was a

2112
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:14,040
different generation that
handled things differently.

2113
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:16,440
So I don't think that
necessarily it was for all you

2114
01:45:16,440 --> 01:45:19,000
had to be a badass.
I would say this, however,

2115
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:22,120
though, I do think that you had
to be a little more genuine.

2116
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:24,720
Yeah.
And I do believe that, you know,

2117
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:27,360
when you were full of shit, you
got found out a little easier

2118
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:29,520
and things like that.
I also do believe that you know,

2119
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:32,920
back in the day when a young man
talked shit to the wrong person,

2120
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:35,240
they got their bell rung for the
first time that.

2121
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:36,560
When you.
Did.

2122
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:40,040
But when you get your bell rung,
you learned an infinite amount

2123
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:43,960
of knowledge in that one moment
that nowadays doesn't take

2124
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:46,720
place, and you got these people
that just talk shit because they

2125
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,000
just think nobody's going to
ring their bell.

2126
01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:50,880
You know, Chris, it's a funny
story.

2127
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:53,400
I don't think I've ever told on
this podcast, but I think I was

2128
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:55,960
like 4 years old.
I grew up.

2129
01:45:56,120 --> 01:45:59,120
I was born in a tiny little town
in Alberta, Canada.

2130
01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:02,000
Like I'm talking 250.
Times felt like a big boy.

2131
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:07,760
And so I'm on Main Street, and I
decide to whip down my pants and

2132
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:09,920
take a piss in the middle of
Main Street, right?

2133
01:46:10,480 --> 01:46:14,400
And the banker was, you know,
one of my parents friends.

2134
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:16,920
Everybody knew everybody there.
And the banker comes out of the

2135
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:22,000
bank, grabs me, gives me the
wicked spanking, you know, that.

2136
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:26,000
Probably the worst one I'd had
at that point in my life and

2137
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:28,200
sent me home crying to my
parents.

2138
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:32,160
And they said what happened?
And I said Mr. Smith just gave

2139
01:46:32,160 --> 01:46:34,720
me a spanking and they're like,
good, what did you do?

2140
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,120
You know, it was good first.
And then what did you?

2141
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:38,160
Do right?
Yeah, right.

2142
01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:41,160
And but yeah, it was just a
different thing, you know?

2143
01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:42,720
Yeah, it was.
It was a different time.

2144
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:45,280
So, you know, and I'm seeing a
lot of narratives being pushed.

2145
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:47,400
I'm seeing a lot of narratives
and mental health being pushed

2146
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:50,680
about that and they're trying to
be comparative of generations.

2147
01:46:50,680 --> 01:46:52,280
And I don't think that's fair.
Number one.

2148
01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:55,240
I also think it's a cop out
because there's a certain

2149
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:59,040
technique to narratives that if
you already named the responses

2150
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:01,680
and shame the responses before
they happen, you're setting it

2151
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:04,320
up to where the responses can't
be used or when they're used,

2152
01:47:04,480 --> 01:47:06,760
you just go see, we already said
it would be that, you know, I

2153
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:11,920
mean, and it's it's actually,
it's a technique of, of debating

2154
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:13,800
and it's a technique of doing
it, so to speak.

2155
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:17,360
And yet most of the entities I
see pushing that in mental

2156
01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:20,480
health, I find out that they're
actually strongly tied to

2157
01:47:20,480 --> 01:47:23,480
entities that are monetizing
mental health in our industry.

2158
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:25,920
And so it's kind of like when
you do the deep dive and

2159
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:28,400
recognize, OK, but you're tied
to this company that's charging

2160
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:30,000
for it.
So now it makes sense why your

2161
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:33,720
narrative is always so dark and
why you're pre empting any

2162
01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:37,480
pushback, which is a known
technique, if you're into that.

2163
01:47:37,480 --> 01:47:39,840
And I'm actually again into that
kind of, you know, how it

2164
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:43,040
affects the site kind of thing.
So I'm, I'm familiar with when

2165
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:45,040
those techniques are being
deployed because what they're

2166
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:49,120
trying to do is shut off the
retort before you can retort or

2167
01:47:49,400 --> 01:47:53,160
preemptively create a reason for
the retort or shame the retort.

2168
01:47:53,480 --> 01:47:57,320
And that doesn't, in my opinion,
negate or mitigate the retort.

2169
01:47:57,320 --> 01:47:59,560
So I don't think everybody's
looking for hard asses, but I

2170
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:02,360
think everybody's looking to be,
you got to be a little more

2171
01:48:02,360 --> 01:48:06,880
genuine in things and to say
that this is the hardest and no,

2172
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:08,280
have you ever been on an oil
rig?

2173
01:48:08,280 --> 01:48:11,160
Have you ever been, you know,
high rise construction?

2174
01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:12,840
Have you ever done whatever?
Yeah.

2175
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:15,520
So, you know, before you sit
there and say that this is the

2176
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:19,280
most difficult and hardest and
so mental unstable, I'm going to

2177
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:21,720
call bullshit and I'm going to
say, look, there's a lot of

2178
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:25,200
difficult industries out there.
And let's be clear, not all of

2179
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:27,600
them are for everybody.
You know what I mean?

2180
01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:30,760
Period of end of story.
So the other side of that too,

2181
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:35,200
is that I think we have a big
misconnect of a lot of

2182
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:38,600
freelancers understanding what
freelancer means that, you know,

2183
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:41,720
it's I, I can equate it to a
landscaper, you know, he's a

2184
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:44,640
freelancer, but if he doesn't
get enough yards to mow, who's

2185
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:46,120
that on?
It's on him.

2186
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:49,320
You've got to do your biz dev,
you've got to have your license,

2187
01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:50,920
you've got to have your
insurance.

2188
01:48:50,920 --> 01:48:54,320
You've got, that's what
freelance or go be an employee.

2189
01:48:54,720 --> 01:48:57,960
You, you do have options.
But to sit here and say that

2190
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:00,760
this is kind of, and I'm not
going to touch too far on this

2191
01:49:00,760 --> 01:49:02,840
because it'll open a whole can
of worms.

2192
01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:06,360
But let's say you have, well,
let's say, you know, when you

2193
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:08,720
sit there and you go work for a
company and you don't like the

2194
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,640
way the company, you know, does
it and you go, but I love this

2195
01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:14,800
industry, but if you don't do it
the way we want you to do it,

2196
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:16,240
we're going to hurt the
industry.

2197
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:20,000
And you start running a
narrative based on a threat.

2198
01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:24,000
I start losing it, you know,
some some respect for it, you

2199
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:25,440
know what I mean?
And where we goes, you know, and

2200
01:49:25,440 --> 01:49:27,960
then they push back on, well,
that narrative of saying, well,

2201
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:29,720
you could get a different job or
don't have to do it.

2202
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:31,240
That's bullshit.
And it's bullshit for this

2203
01:49:31,240 --> 01:49:33,000
reason.
Well, that doesn't negate the

2204
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:35,760
fact that it's true.
So what you're saying is you

2205
01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:38,920
wanna force me to run my
business the way you want me to

2206
01:49:38,920 --> 01:49:40,880
run it?
Just don't work for me.

2207
01:49:41,240 --> 01:49:43,480
Yeah, I'm gonna run my business
the way I want.

2208
01:49:43,480 --> 01:49:45,240
And if you don't like it, don't
work for me.

2209
01:49:45,320 --> 01:49:49,200
Remarkably, I've had that
conversation like many times.

2210
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:51,640
I've had my own companies.
For 25 years.

2211
01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:55,560
Now, and, and yeah, I've had
those conversations and, you

2212
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:59,240
know, I mean, yeah, it can open
a huge can of worms, obviously,

2213
01:49:59,240 --> 01:50:03,680
but I, I, I love employees
because without employees I

2214
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:05,920
couldn't, I couldn't have
businesses.

2215
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:09,440
So to me, people who are willing
to work for other companies, I

2216
01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:11,520
love them, They're great,
they're amazing.

2217
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:16,760
But I, I have so much respect
and admiration for business

2218
01:50:16,760 --> 01:50:21,000
people, entrepreneurs like
myself, who any given moment in

2219
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:26,120
time are 100% all in on their
business, on their idea, on

2220
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:28,920
their, you know, this is how I
want to do things.

2221
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:31,480
And they're willing to put their
house on the line and their

2222
01:50:31,480 --> 01:50:34,040
right, you know, their
relationship with their

2223
01:50:34,040 --> 01:50:36,120
significant other on the line or
whatever.

2224
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,600
I love these people.
I love, you know, and that's not

2225
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:40,800
self-serving at all.
It's.

2226
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:44,680
Just, well, let's also be clear
that also a lot of freelancers

2227
01:50:45,120 --> 01:50:49,120
that and I, I, I push back
against that term even because

2228
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:50,840
they're independent business
owners.

2229
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:52,920
That's what they are.
They're they're their own

2230
01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:54,240
business.
They're selling themselves.

2231
01:50:54,240 --> 01:50:56,320
They are their their product if
you will.

2232
01:50:56,920 --> 01:51:00,240
But they get components as yeah.
Yeah, but they're they allow

2233
01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:03,160
themselves to look, not every
band.

2234
01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:05,640
This is the other thing.
A lot of people hold up the one

2235
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:11,240
percenters as the metric, OK,
most of the industry, and this

2236
01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:15,640
is the best analogy to it, a
city may have one or two, an

2237
01:51:15,640 --> 01:51:17,800
arena and an amphitheater where
you know, a couple of big

2238
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:19,880
venues, right?
Which means they're only doing a

2239
01:51:19,880 --> 01:51:23,760
couple of big shows a month or
whatever there how many clubs

2240
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:26,600
are in that show that have buses
and vans showing up, right?

2241
01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:30,640
So the majority of this
industry, First off, they don't

2242
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:33,560
have employees.
They've got crews, you know,

2243
01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:38,240
that are independence and they
far outweigh what the one

2244
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:40,800
percenter employees are from
what bands?

2245
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:45,440
Employee number one, you know,
and they also a good Porsche.

2246
01:51:45,440 --> 01:51:48,320
Most bands don't have a travel
agent, you know what I mean?

2247
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:51,680
They just don't.
Van bands generally don't. 1 bus

2248
01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:54,200
bands don't.
Most of them don't have a

2249
01:51:54,200 --> 01:51:57,680
payroll company. 90% of them do
not have a payroll company.

2250
01:51:57,880 --> 01:52:00,840
If they're lucky, they have a
business manager that helps them

2251
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,160
muddle through it, but they
don't have a payroll company.

2252
01:52:03,560 --> 01:52:06,200
So when you look at the
realization of what the blue

2253
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:09,160
collar side is and the blue
collar side is what makes this

2254
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:11,880
industry, they are tomorrow's
one percenter, right?

2255
01:52:12,200 --> 01:52:15,080
And when they get there and if
you talk to US, 1% or some of

2256
01:52:15,080 --> 01:52:17,800
them, they don't like how
business and how big they've

2257
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:19,240
gotten.
It has to be this way or

2258
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:22,600
whatever or else.
But to use that as a metric for

2259
01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:27,080
the whole industry for me is
again, that's misguided.

2260
01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:29,880
Because if you're going to set a
metric, then you need to set a

2261
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:34,080
metric just below the halfway
point because that's the norm

2262
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:36,240
and metrics need to be spent on
that.

2263
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:39,760
And but we also need to be clear
that metrics take anywhere from

2264
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:42,720
5 to 6 years to create.
And I started telling everybody

2265
01:52:42,720 --> 01:52:45,680
this out of the pandemic that
look, anything pre pandemic you

2266
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:47,040
need to throw away.
If you're using the old

2267
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:48,960
playbook, forget it.
We're not even playing the same

2268
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:52,480
sport.
But it's also going to take at

2269
01:52:52,480 --> 01:52:54,360
least five years out of the
pandemic.

2270
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:56,880
And I don't even count the first
year back because it was a free

2271
01:52:56,880 --> 01:52:58,480
for all.
So you'd have to start the

2272
01:52:58,480 --> 01:53:00,800
following year, right?
But then you have to wait at

2273
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:04,760
least 5-6 years to be able to
look back and see if there was

2274
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:08,520
any peaks, valleys or anything
that normalized to even look at

2275
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:10,640
a metric.
And we're not even there yet.

2276
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:14,000
And then we got hit with tariffs
and some other shit, which blew

2277
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:16,680
the whole idea of what might
have been a metric out of the

2278
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:18,480
water.
So if anybody's sitting there

2279
01:53:18,480 --> 01:53:21,520
going, Oh no, we know exactly
what bullshit what you do,

2280
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:24,120
that's what I say bullshit you
do, There's none of us.

2281
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:26,440
There's there hasn't been time
to set a metric.

2282
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,840
Then then those metrics got
upended.

2283
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:34,840
So we're starting over again.
It's been such a complicated

2284
01:53:34,920 --> 01:53:37,480
time for businesses in our
industry because, yeah, it

2285
01:53:37,680 --> 01:53:42,440
really has batshit crazy free
for all to like, Oh my God,

2286
01:53:42,440 --> 01:53:46,440
costs are so high and I'm losing
money on shows like, you know,

2287
01:53:46,440 --> 01:53:47,880
especially the smaller
companies.

2288
01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:51,160
Five $6 million companies are
Well, it's weird because the

2289
01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:54,240
smallest companies and the
largest companies seem to be

2290
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,800
faring the worst, and all the
ones in the middle seem to be

2291
01:53:57,800 --> 01:53:58,840
doing the best.
Which?

2292
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:00,640
Because it's cumulative
business, right?

2293
01:54:01,160 --> 01:54:05,360
Cumulative business, if you're
allowed to allow your margin to

2294
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:08,560
be a little bit of less instead
of always striving to squeeze

2295
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:11,120
every last penny out of the
biggest thing you could get.

2296
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:14,960
Well, when you look at how much
energy you're going to expend

2297
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:17,080
into that, you know what I mean?
And like I said, you're

2298
01:54:17,080 --> 01:54:20,680
expending all that for a small
margin where if you put in the

2299
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:23,760
work and you have the cumulative
that's doing it, you know,

2300
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:26,520
within your bandwidth, of
course, you know, I think you're

2301
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:28,560
going to fare better.
And that's why I, like I said,

2302
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:31,560
I'll always champion that blue
collar that's out there grinding

2303
01:54:31,560 --> 01:54:33,960
it out because I find them to be
the most genuine.

2304
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:35,960
I find them to be the most, you
know what I mean?

2305
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:40,600
And and those were those those
relationships really blossom and

2306
01:54:40,600 --> 01:54:43,840
hold on when you're genuine with
each other, That's that to me.

2307
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,920
Again, it's that great business
being a byproduct of great

2308
01:54:46,920 --> 01:54:50,520
relationships.
Love that line.

2309
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:55,120
And on that note, Chris, I'm
sure you have other things to

2310
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:57,560
do, So do I, I look forward to
talking to you again.

2311
01:54:57,560 --> 01:55:02,720
And when I'm at your your event,
maybe we can sit down for 1520

2312
01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:05,080
minutes and do another quick
podcast just talking about

2313
01:55:05,080 --> 01:55:08,560
what's going on there and.
I'd love to and again, please,

2314
01:55:08,960 --> 01:55:12,680
please take my offer seriously.
I will set up as a quiet spot if

2315
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,280
you want and you can interview.
That no that.

2316
01:55:15,280 --> 01:55:17,440
Makes a.
Lot of sense we'll do 5 or 6 or

2317
01:55:17,440 --> 01:55:19,440
8 podcasts from there that
weekend.

2318
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:23,800
Whatever you want to do, I just
think it'd be shooting ducks in

2319
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:26,320
a barrel, considering who's on
property that you could, you

2320
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:27,960
know, ask if they want to take
part.

2321
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:30,400
You could even do a couple of
group ones, you know what I

2322
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:34,480
mean, that you film on site.
So yeah, we look forward to

2323
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:37,200
hosting you.
And you know, again, anybody

2324
01:55:37,200 --> 01:55:40,400
interested in going, find your
favorite sponsor and and tell

2325
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:41,680
them to give you a discount
code.

2326
01:55:42,520 --> 01:55:46,240
Good, I'll do that.
All right, it's been a pleasure.

2327
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:48,360
I was humbled by the invite, by
the way, so.

2328
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:50,240
I'm, I'm humbled that you would
come.

2329
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:53,760
I you're you're a great talker.
You love to talk.

2330
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:56,080
You've got great stories.
We could have gone for five

2331
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:58,880
hours, but unfortunately, I have
a meeting in 14 minutes.

2332
01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:02,040
So go to my friend.
Yeah.

2333
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:03,720
Thanks.
All right, man.