#326 - John Procaccini - The Evolution of Touring and Stage Management

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Torch and a fellow by the name
of Paco Zimmer. 2 icons from the

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late 60s seventies in the
Rock'n'roll business.

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Owned a staging company called
Vicom and it was probably the

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first iteration of what mobile
stages have become.

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And their shop was a mile from
my parents Deli, 2 miles maybe.

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And Torch came in one day, got a
bunch of sandwiches for his crew

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that was working, said, hey, you
should come down and see what

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we're doing.
And I said, yeah, I'll, I'll

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take a ride down after work one
day.

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And I did.
And there was a pair of overalls

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hanging there.
And next thing I knew, I was

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cutting steel for this stage
bill that they were doing.

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And that was around 1977.
Torch became the the rigor.

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Paco became the advancement for
Boston, which at that time

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biggest album in the world.
That was it, yeah.

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And I kind of got recruited to
become a ground rigger Carpenter

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kind of person, and I had no
idea what the hell I was doing

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and my parents thought I was
joining the circus.

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Hello.
And here we are, another episode

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of Geysers of Gear.
Thanks for joining me today.

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As always, a lot of new things
going on in our world.

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First, I think you're probably
aware that I have launched a new

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business, Gearshare, which is a
an AI search engine basically

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for sub rental gear.
It is working amazingly well.

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It's a tool that we've taken
almost a year to build at this

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point and spent a fortune on AI
products and stuff.

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It's not only AI, but AI handles
the bulk of the load.

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It is doing a lot of the smart
stuff in the background.

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We've got a lot of companies
onboarding.

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Companies are being onboarded
more quickly now.

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We were very slow walking for
the first couple of weeks, but

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yeah, it's going really, really
well.

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We're probably up to about 7000
items now.

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We want to push it to 1015
thousand really, really quickly.

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We want to get it to 100,000
sort of within a few weeks.

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So we are going to be onboarding
a lot more companies.

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And one thing I did want to
mention, if you're listening to

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this, you're probably the type
of person we would want to add.

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We are now adding what we're
calling affiliates or affiliate

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partners.
And those affiliates basically

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you can earn simply by saying to
someone, hey, have you heard of

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Gearshare?
It's pretty cool.

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It's a great way to find gear
and you might want to sign up

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and guess what?
I've got a discount code.

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You give them your discount
code.

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You can do this online, you can
do it in person, you can do it

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in a text message.
You give them the discount code,

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they sign up with that discount
code and you get a fairly

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significant little payment for
that.

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So obviously that scales really
well.

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You could make an extra three
$4000 a month simply by

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recommending a platform.
And we've just decided that

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instead of growing a large sales
team on our side, we'd rather

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just take our own friends and,
and network and have you guys

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share this for us.
In the past, I used to always

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call this a sneezer.
A person who buys like the

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latest iPhone and tells everyone
about it is in marketing terms,

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it's a sneezer.
It's a person who's going to

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basically spread the virus, go
out and tell people that, hey,

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this thing's amazing, you should
check it out.

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And so we're looking to pay
people to be sneezers for gear

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share.
So that's cool.

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Secondly, I haven't talked to
you about Four Wall in a while,

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but I've been speaking with them
directly with Wes, the CEO and

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others.
And I'm happy for them that

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they've been funded, that
they're out of those nasty dark

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moments that they've been in for
God, what feels like a couple of

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years.
I know it's over a year anyways,

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I'm sure for their entire team,
it's it's just a massive exhale

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and back to doing business,
which is great.

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And I think it's good for the
entire industry.

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When a company that size is on
the sidelines and you know, it

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causes ripples all the way
through the system.

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Vendors aren't getting paid on
time, staff are getting

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depressed or, or down or
whatever.

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We've all been through it and
it's great to come out of those

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situations.
So congratulations to Forwall on

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getting funded and let's keep an
eye on that and see how it all

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goes in the future.
I'm sure they're going to get

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back to acquiring other
businesses and so we'll see.

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One thing I didn't want to go
without mentioning since we're

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still in September here.
It's now the 23rd of September

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as I record this Cosmos annual
Space Cannon installation for

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911 in New York.
If you listen to my podcast, you

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probably also follow Cosmo
Wilson and you know the guy is

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just a St. for doing this every
single year.

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He some of the scheduling that
he has to do just to get to New

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York to do this in between
touring dates and stuff.

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Yes, this year he was off so it
was a little bit easier.

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But most years he's jumping from
1 gig to another gig.

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He'll come in, get the setup
done and the focus done.

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He'll fly back out to do a gig,
fly back in to make sure

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everything turns on OK.
Like the commitment that this

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guy puts into this every single
year and he's so proud of it and

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he's so happy to do it and he
gets so many accolades and it's

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all well deserved.
So Attaboy Cosmo, you know,

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super proud of you, super happy
to be your friend and love

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seeing you do it every year and
love following the social media

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posts with all the excuse me
pictures and and stuff.

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This year was extra special
because Steven Tyler showed up,

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which which was pretty wild.
Steven Tyler showed up at the

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9/11 thing, stood under the
lights, got his picture taken

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under the lights and a very
funny moment.

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Everyone knows if you know
Cosmo, you know two things about

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his wardrobe 1 is he's going to
be wearing a Hawaiian shirt and

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two, he's probably wearing a
Beatles hat.

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And so him and Steven Tyler
switched hats.

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If you haven't seen it, go to
Cosmos social media, Scroll down

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through about 8000 pictures.
You'll get to 1 where Stevens

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wearing The Beatles hat and and
Cosmo's wearing Stevens hat.

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So very, very cool.
Love it.

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Attaboy Cosmo, super proud and
and happy to know you.

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And you know, I know you love
what you're doing there, but we

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all love that you do it.
And without getting political at

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all, I wanted to mention this
whole Charlie Kirk thing.

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Not for any reasons that you
think I might be mentioning it,

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but does this create security
concerns for our own industry?

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Is there going to be more
attention paid to the artists

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who are on stage?
And I know that we've always

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been concerned with them getting
hit in the head with a beer

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bottle or a, you know, a glass
of water or whatever it is just

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things projectiles from the
audience.

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We've always been paying
attention to that.

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But, you know, have we really
been concerned about, you know,

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call it a left wing or a right
wing person on stage who has

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very, you know, political views
that one side loves, the other

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side doesn't love.
And someone now brings a gun to

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that, to that event or brings a
bomb to that event or brings a

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projectile or whatever to that
event or runs on stage and stabs

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them in the face.
You know, I know it's very

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morbid sounding, but it's one of
the things that I thought of

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when I saw that all happening
after the fact was does this

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change our industry?
Does this, you know, and one of

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the things that made me think of
it is I saw the president's

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speech at the Charlie Kirk thing
the other day and and the

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president now doesn't speak
without the big guard around him

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now, and for obvious reasons.
So are we going to start seeing

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concerts where, you know,
whoever the artist is has a

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bulletproof shield in front of
him so he's basically singing

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from a box?
I hope not, but who knows?

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I mean, our world is is a little
nutty.

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Let's face it.
We've got some crazy shit going

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on out there right now.
And I would hate to see it come

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to that because, you know, the
the closeness and the sort of

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romance of being at a show and
being that close to the artist

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and seeing him standing right
there right in front of you or

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her is such a big part of all of
this.

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And also, what will the fans
think?

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Like if Taylor Swift is is on
stage behind a, a big, you know,

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thing that covers the entire
stage and the ramps and

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everything, you know, I don't
know what's that look like.

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So I hope it doesn't become a
problem.

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I hope I'm not, you know,
anticipating something that's

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coming because if it does come,
if it happens to one artist, it

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it's going to cause significant
change to our industry and we

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don't need that kind of that
kind of stuff right now.

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So anyways, sorry to enter a
dark and negative and morbid

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topic, but I just, it's one of
the things I thought of when

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that all happened.
So today's guest is I hope I get

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his last name pronounced right,
John.

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I apologize now if I get it
wrong.

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John Procaccini is a veteran
tour touring production manager

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and entertainment executive with
more than 45 years in the live

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events industry.
Currently the tour production

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manager for Peter Frampton, John
has worked with legendary

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artists including Jefferson
Starship, The Doobie Brothers,

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REO Speedwagon, Boston and Sammy
Hagar.

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Beyond touring, John is also
co-owner of the Nashville Social

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Club and principal of Chili Bop
Entertainment Group, with past

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leadership roles at Base,
Hologram, Base Experiential and

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Stagecraft.
Known for blending creative and

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operational excellence, John
continues to deliver

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unforgettable experiences while
shaping the future of live

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entertainment.
So let's go ahead and bring them

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on.
Well, hello John, how are you?

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Great, Marcel.
Thanks for having me.

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No, thank you so much for doing
it.

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It's it's interesting to learn
that somewhere out that back

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window of yours that I can see
behind you is John Wiseman's

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probably sitting on his boat
smoking a cigar or something.

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He's not too far from me.
He's I, I don't know exactly

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where he lives, but he's up in
Tahoe somewhere.

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Yeah, yeah, he's not that far
from me.

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And I'm in the, I'm in the
footage.

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Oh, OK.
Oh, so you're not real close to

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the lake?
About 20 minutes, 20 minutes due

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east of South Lake Town, Yeah.
You're probably you're probably

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about $15 million from the lake.
Exactly, exactly.

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I'm about 15 million from the
lake exactly.

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Is that feet or miles?
No dollars.

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Yeah, it's funny, John was
actually talking to me a few

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weeks ago about about Tahoe
Realty, a real estate and just

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what some people are spending to
build these massive, you know,

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Silicon Valley mansions on the
lake and, and.

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It's just.
Wild.

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Actually, a mutual friend of
John and mine is a landscape

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designer.
It's actually my wife's best

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friend.
She's a landscape designer in

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Tahoe and the the billionaires
are, as I said, the zillionaires

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are coming into town buying $40
million lakeside properties and

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knocking them down from building
or, or knocking portions.

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It's crazy.
It's it's when.

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When you're doing that, you've
got, you know what I would call

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a few money and.
Yeah.

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You know, it's just I see it in
South Florida a lot too, and I'm

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starting to see it where my
house is up in Canada as well,

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where people are buying, you
know, 3 or $4 million houses,

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tearing them down and building,
you know, 20 million.

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Dollar houses, Yeah, it's crazy.
You know, my wife just doesn't

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like the floor color so I'm
going to tear the house down.

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That's that's essentially what's
going on, you know?

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It is wild.
It is wild.

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And certainly on the ocean and,
and even on the intercoastal in

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Florida, same thing.
You know, it's, it's like you're

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paying $10 million for the land
and 2,000,000 for the house.

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So who cares?
I'm gonna tear down the house

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and put up a better one.
Exactly.

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So yeah, whatever.
So you're one of the, you're one

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of the first of all, I'm super
impressed with myself that I got

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your last name right.
I, I don't always do that.

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So Prococini for me, I'm massive
Italian food fan and I just

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thought if this was on the menu
and I wanted to order it, how

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00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,400
would I order it And, and I got
it right.

224
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,600
So.
It's funny that you correlate it

225
00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,520
to food because a little back
story that kind of coincides

226
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,960
with the start of my career is
my parents owned an Italian deli

227
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:11,520
in Providence, RI, OK.
And back East they call

228
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,920
sandwiches grinders in Boston,
Providence.

229
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:22,920
So I've had the I've had the
nickname John the Grinder for 47

230
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,280
years now.
Yeah, yeah.

231
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:33,480
I started started in 78 helping
a a fella in, in New England.

232
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,320
He was a raver.
His name was Torch.

233
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,200
Arthur Russo.
Arthur Sylvia on the side and

234
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,920
another good German name,
another good German name.

235
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,640
And Torch took me in.
I started working in the shop,

236
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,040
but he coined the name John the
Grinder and that stuck pretty

237
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,600
much.
I think of the last probably 7

238
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,480
to 10 years, it's tapered off a
little bit because it's got

239
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,840
other meanings and connotations.
So we don't use, we don't use

240
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,360
the name Grind.
Yeah, exactly.

241
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,400
Where maybe you do or do not
want to be.

242
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,400
Associated to exactly so I
haven't used it all that much,

243
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,440
but still recognized as as the
grinder out there somewhere.

244
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,480
I.
Like it, I like it.

245
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,520
That's, you know, there's been
some really funny nicknames over

246
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,240
the years for for touring people
and someday somebody has to do a

247
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,720
a book of the funny nicknames in
the touring business.

248
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,480
And it's such a great idea.
You know, how did how did the

249
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,120
name get get brought up?
Because I would love to even

250
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,920
hear the origin of that whole
thing.

251
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,520
Like, when did somebody decide
that everyone on a tour needed

252
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:43,920
to have a funny nickname?
You.

253
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,520
Know, yeah.
And who knows?

254
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,840
Like, I don't know when that
started what the origin of the

255
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,480
whole concept is, you know, but
it's cool.

256
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:54,400
It's.
Funny it is.

257
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:55,800
It is this.
Good luck.

258
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,760
That I don't even know their
name, like I just.

259
00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,800
Know their name, the.
Torch or whatever.

260
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,040
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

261
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,720
So.
Exactly.

262
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,200
So, yeah, the, the, so I'm
guessing you're Italian,

263
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,840
obviously.
And so the, the deli, I've read

264
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,600
I think somewhere in either your
notes or some of the research

265
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:20,520
that we did, the deli in Rhode
Island, you worked there, you

266
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,240
spent a lot of time there.
When yeah, I mean my, my parents

267
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:30,360
opened it in probably 1970 and
my siblings and I all worked

268
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,120
there.
And in between me having a

269
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,080
garage band, not knowing I
wanted to go on the road with a

270
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:43,120
touring act as a roadie, yeah, a
lot of my friends were came from

271
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,760
music and sandwiches, basically.
Really.

272
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,040
Yeah, that's funny to go
together, I guess, because

273
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,920
musicians are starving.
Yes.

274
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,640
Are yummy.
Yes, they are.

275
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,320
Yeah, Yep.
Well, when when I was young and

276
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,400
playing in bands, it was
musicians and and exotic

277
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,600
dancers.
In Canada.

278
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,720
Because I couldn't afford guitar
strings and they could, you

279
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,319
know, and so, so that was just
how it worked out.

280
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,920
And plus they usually had a car
so they could drive you to the

281
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,480
music stores to get those
guitar.

282
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:12,400
Strings.
Yep, Yep.

283
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,319
And so, yeah, it was.
It was always fun.

284
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,240
Yes.
So how did you get from the deli

285
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,960
business to the rock'n'roll
business?

286
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,520
It sounds like, it sounds like a
typical story, which is I was in

287
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,000
a band, it wasn't going
anywhere.

288
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,760
And somebody said, hey, you want
to be, you know, you want to do

289
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,800
this thing instead.
Kind of close.

290
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:35,360
So Torch Torch and a fellow by
the name of Paco Zimmer. 2 icons

291
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:39,760
from the late 60s seventies in
the Rock'n'roll business.

292
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,920
Owned a stage in company called
Vicon and it was probably the

293
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,360
first iteration of what mobile
stages have become.

294
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,920
And their shop was a mile from
my parents deli, 2 miles maybe.

295
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,640
And the torch came in one day,
got a bunch of sandwiches for

296
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,800
this crew that was working,
said, hey, you should come down

297
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,080
and see what we're doing.
And I said, yeah, I'll, I'll

298
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,160
take a ride down after work one
day.

299
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,400
And I did.
And there was a pair of overalls

300
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,600
hanging there.
And next thing I knew, I was

301
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,520
cutting steel for this stage
build that they were doing.

302
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:25,080
And that was around 1977.
And Yep, they were building this

303
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,360
mobile stage that I want to say
the first show was Parliament

304
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:33,520
Funkadelic in Chicago.
Yeah.

305
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:40,960
And then Torch, Paco, bunch of
other folks that are some still

306
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,080
in business.
I'm not this mobile stage wound

307
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,400
up working for a couple of years
before I want to say that Mike

308
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,600
Brown staging in Los Angeles
picked it up and put it as a

309
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:58,000
permanent big hunk of steel
stage maybe at the Ventura Fair

310
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,680
somewhere, somewhere.
Then anyway that that all those

311
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,280
staging contacts kind of led
torch became the the rigor.

312
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,600
Paco became the advancement for
Boston, which at that time

313
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:18,280
biggest album in the world.
And I kind of got recruited to

314
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,800
become a ground rigger Carpenter
kind of person.

315
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,240
And I had no idea what the hell
I was doing.

316
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:30,040
And my parents thought I was
joining the circus, so I left

317
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,760
the deli.
Yeah, I were.

318
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,640
I was.
So that was my foray into

319
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,120
rock'n'roll Is, is ground rigger
Carpenter for torch.

320
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,320
And who is, you know, still to
this day, dear friend and family

321
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,000
and mentor.
And he's approaching 80 years

322
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,800
old, I think, and still in great
shape.

323
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,600
And, and you know, he and his
family live still live same

324
00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,480
house not far from Providence,
RI.

325
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,800
And so that's that's the entree
into Rock'n'roll too.

326
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,240
It's like Roy, who we had on the
on the podcast.

327
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,760
Sure.
Roy Bickel, Yeah.

328
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,480
And you know, he still goes out
on jobs occasionally.

329
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,800
He's a pioneer.
I mean, he's a pioneer.

330
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,640
I think he's. 82 or. 80, yeah,
Probably, yeah.

331
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,600
And you know, the guy just blows
my mind, blows my mind

332
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,800
completely.
Well, that was the oh, I'm

333
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:26,440
sorry.
Go ahead.

334
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:27,160
No.
No, you go.

335
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:34,680
I was going to say Roy Torch
fellow, the late Mike Grassley.

336
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,880
I mean, there's a Harry Donovan.
There's a slew of rigors that

337
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:45,560
from that time, Branham, I'm
sure Joe Branham slew of them

338
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,560
from that time period that that
were truly pioneers.

339
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:55,400
And Roy, I still see via social
media and you're right, taking

340
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,680
little projects that he just
finished and he's in Las Vegas,

341
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,000
I believe.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's wild.

342
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,880
It's, I love that because, you
know, I was talking to somebody

343
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,840
the other day and I was whining
about the fact that, you know,

344
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,560
at my age, I'm 61 now and, and
at my age, I'm still working

345
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,360
probably harder than I have in
the last 30 years.

346
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,440
And part of it is because
there's just such new technology

347
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,480
that I'm getting involved in and
really, you know, digging into

348
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,760
and becoming a, an expert on.
And, and part of it is because I

349
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:33,800
still need to make money, you
know, and so the person said to

350
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,400
me, you know, you need to sort
of flip that whole thinking

351
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,240
around because the fact that A,
you're still relevant, B, you're

352
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,040
still doing something that you
enjoy for the most part.

353
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,280
Everyone's going to do some
things you don't like, but

354
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,400
you're doing something that you
enjoy in an industry that you

355
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,000
love.
He said, I'm never going to stop

356
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,440
working like you.
You'll have to drag me away from

357
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,160
from work when I'm in my 80s
because I love what I do.

358
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,120
And if I don't do it, you know,
I'm either going to be spending

359
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:08,360
money or eating too much or
probably living an unhealthy

360
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,880
lifestyle of some sort.
And you know, I love what I do.

361
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,960
Why would I stop doing it?
And there's some logic to that.

362
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,960
Yeah, I, you know, there
certainly is.

363
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,960
And as I, I, I still am out
occasionally with Peter Frampton

364
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:29,480
and the entire crew.
I would say most of it, but I

365
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,320
shouldn't say it anytime.
We're conscious of many things,

366
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,600
Peter.
We don't work every day.

367
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,160
We work day on day off, day on,
day off.

368
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:45,600
So a time in a hotel is a bit
more than a, than a younger

369
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,400
touring act that's doing five in
a row or fuck shows or whatever.

370
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,880
So you have to get up and do
something, even if you're just

371
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,280
walking along the city or doing
something and then eating.

372
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:04,360
All the choices of eating are
certainly far more wider spread

373
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:08,360
than they were in the past.
And so it's not just hamburgers

374
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,720
and fast food.
You got lots of choices.

375
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,880
So it's all about the choices
really, I think so the exercise

376
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,280
and the walk and.
You're exactly right.

377
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,400
It's, you know, the whole health
thing is about choices.

378
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,720
Like I know so many people who
say, well, I'm on tour, so I, I

379
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,120
have to gain weight because
that's just what happens, you

380
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,720
know, it's, yeah, you know,
pizza in the back lounge after

381
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,000
the show every night or
whatever.

382
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,440
What are you gonna do?
And what you're going to do is

383
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,440
say no.
Exactly salad.

384
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,680
Can you order me a salad please?
Or I'm going to.

385
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,240
Go out and grab something to eat
on my own or whatever, like, you

386
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,000
know, there's always a healthy
option.

387
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,200
And it's just that usually,
believe me, I'm in a constant

388
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,000
battle for do I grab that pizza
or do I have some broccoli or

389
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,120
whatever, you know, like what?
It's a, it's a constant battle

390
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,800
because I love pizza, you know,
And I think I'm, I'm not

391
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,560
Italian, but I certainly must
have some Italian in me

392
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,400
somewhere because I could eat
Italian food for breakfast,

393
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,160
lunch and dinner every day.
I agree.

394
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,640
I agree.
And I think when, and you might

395
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,120
have some good insight on this,
but when I'm in Italy, that

396
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,760
doesn't bother me.
Like I don't feel bloated and

397
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,680
full and all that stuff.
When I'm in America, if I have

398
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,840
pizza for lunch and pasta for
dinner, I feel like I weigh

399
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,360
£450, you know?
Yeah.

400
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,040
So understood.
What what's what someone told

401
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,320
me, and I don't know if this is
true or not, is that in the US

402
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,280
we use enriched flour, bleached
flour, all of that kind of

403
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,360
stuff.
And in in Italy they don't.

404
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,320
That's correct.
Yeah.

405
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,000
So a lot more like ancient
grains and stuff like that.

406
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,960
In Italy, it just comes down to
real food versus fake food,

407
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,760
right?
Yeah, I mean my my wife who's

408
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:59,680
Irish American moved to Japan
mid 80s, I want to say spent

409
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:06,720
about 9 years there and worked
there, moved back to the States

410
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,720
where I met her and she came
back after nine years in Japan

411
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:17,280
and had to embrace a gluten free
diet just because of the what

412
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,240
you got used to in.
Right.

413
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:25,920
In Japan and when we went to
Italy and she can eat pot, she

414
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,600
does not eat American made pasta
anymore.

415
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,040
And even some of the Italian
brands that probably are

416
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:40,000
manufactured now in the States,
they may be a product of Italy,

417
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,280
but I'm not sure the 100%.
Yeah, she she found the diet to

418
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,800
be tolerable when we were in
Italy.

419
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:50,640
Yeah, and that doesn't surprise
me at all.

420
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,320
It's like I can eat a whole loaf
of bread at lunch.

421
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:55,560
Yeah, in Italy and it doesn't
bother me.

422
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,040
But if I have one piece of bread
here, I feel bloated and full

423
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,040
and all that stuff.
So.

424
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,600
But.
Yeah, Frankenly, Frankenly they

425
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,640
call it right?
Right.

426
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,440
Yeah, well, it's just all the
garbage that we put in bread

427
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,920
here.
Like, you know, it's, it's

428
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,040
remarkable.
My, my fiance and I were having

429
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560
this conversation yesterday
because, you know, I'm, I'm

430
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,920
finding that milk started
bothering me.

431
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,440
And so I'm looking for
alternative things to put in my

432
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,560
coffee 'cause I don't like black
coffee.

433
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,920
And, you know, I've tried so
many different things.

434
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:32,160
And yesterday I read how to make
a healthy a pumpkin spice latte.

435
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,640
And I'm reading this and I go,
oh, cool, I got all those

436
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,640
ingredients.
And so I go to put in like fake

437
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,720
milk, nut milk of some sort.
I think it was like an almond

438
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,040
mixed.
And one of the things he said is

439
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,600
you got to make sure that
whatever nut milk you're using

440
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,440
has no more than three
ingredients.

441
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,560
And I look at the label and it's
got like 30 ingredients.

442
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,080
And one of them is seed oils.
And I'm like, you know, what are

443
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,200
you doing here?
Like, why are you trying to kill

444
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,480
us?
This is not supposed to have all

445
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,480
of these things.
You.

446
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,960
Know.
So I'm sure there's a reason and

447
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,520
it's usually about profit or
longevity or whatever, right?

448
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,320
So they can get on the shelf
longer.

449
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,840
So, yeah, but I did a lot of
research on, on Italian, like

450
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,120
on, because I, I have like an
uni pizza oven and I, I do a lot

451
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:24,240
of homemade pizzas And so I'm
always looking for the perfect

452
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,640
dough.
And so I've done a lot of

453
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,440
research on on flour and what's
in different flours and stuff

454
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:37,240
and finding proper flour that
doesn't that isn't enriched or

455
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,280
bleached.
Caputo double lot.

456
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,920
That's what I use all the time.
I use Caputo.

457
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,440
Yeah.
But you know, the other thing is

458
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,960
like with pastas and stuff too,
you know, like Durham wheat as

459
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,320
opposed to, you know, there's,
there's so many different types

460
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,280
of things and it's just like the
government ain't taking care of

461
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,520
us from a health standpoint.
You really have to do your own

462
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,240
due.
Diligence and research.

463
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,240
Anyways, this kind of went off
the rails.

464
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,880
No, that's OK Food's a great
topic.

465
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,520
Oh yeah, I love well and
especially Italian food.

466
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,800
I could talk to you about it all
day and and not get bored

467
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,400
because it's one of the reasons
I love going to Italy.

468
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,960
Is.
Every region has their food,

469
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,400
every region has their wine.
And I want to.

470
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,040
Explore it all.
Absolutely.

471
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,640
You know, absolutely.
Yeah, we're actually we, we just

472
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,440
got engaged about AI, don't know
a month.

473
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,360
And a half congratulations.
And thank you.

474
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:33,320
My, my fiance's from England and
we're talking about getting

475
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,120
married either in England or
Italy next year.

476
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,880
England because her mother's
getting older and, and we'd love

477
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,000
to have her be able to be there.
And she's like, I don't mind

478
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,360
going to Italy.
So we're talking about maybe

479
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,880
Italy because it's my favorite
country in the world.

480
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,920
And so yeah, we'll see.
We'll see.

481
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,640
Oh good, last, wherever you
land, I'm sure it'll be

482
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:56,760
enjoyable.
Yeah.

483
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,040
And an epic Naples, all around
Naples.

484
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:06,760
And we still have, we still have
family in a little town called

485
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,840
Scopoli, which is due east of
Naples, about 30 minutes, I

486
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,040
think, OK.
Yeah, cool.

487
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,920
How often do you get there?
Oh, it's been a few years.

488
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:24,200
It's it's been for my wife and
I, it's been right before COVID.

489
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,720
So that's six years.
Wow.

490
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,800
Yeah, I think I was there since
COVID.

491
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:29,440
I.
Think I was in.

492
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,360
Italy a few maybe two or three
years ago, just for a few days

493
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,400
for business.
Yeah, but so last we spoke about

494
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,720
work.
We were.

495
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,200
On tour with Boston and you know
what a cool first tour like I

496
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,840
mean.
You know, yeah, I mean, it was.

497
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,560
Somewhere, maybe at the top
right.

498
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,480
It was a bit surreal.
I was 18 years old.

499
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,960
Torch, my mentor, used to be as
his ground rigger.

500
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,120
I got accustomed to getting
yelled at from 110 feet in the

501
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,960
air.
It was it was a learning,

502
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,120
learning, learning, learning
experience.

503
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,040
And I learned a lot of different
disciplines.

504
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,480
He would if we were done putting
the rig up, which at that time

505
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,120
was 12 or 14 points sooner.
There's nothing compared to

506
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,720
7080, a 120 points today, you
know?

507
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,120
Yeah.
And so we'd have time.

508
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,160
We'd have time after the rig was
up and he'd tell me get over

509
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,600
there, help him stack PA, get
over there and help him push

510
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,320
bang gear on stage.
And so I learned quite a few

511
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:44,280
different disciplines from Torch
mentoring or bossing me around.

512
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,160
Yes, kicking my ass around
exactly, exactly.

513
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,760
But it, it certainly created
opportunities for me early on.

514
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:59,200
I as I learned many disciplines
about what it takes to get in a

515
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,720
building on a stage.
Up and running got me into stage

516
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,840
management pretty early after
that tour.

517
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,120
That tour went forever.
It seemed to be, I think he's

518
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:19,560
still going almost and I wound
up Sammy Hagar was our opening

519
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:25,000
act for a lot 10 months, I want
to say on and off.

520
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,280
And we a lot of us wound up
getting hired from Sam.

521
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,120
So through the early 80s I spent
time with Sam, became a stage

522
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,160
manager for him prior to his Van
Halen base.

523
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,680
Oh wow.
So yeah, getting into it early

524
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,360
also got me into some level of
management early and almost ever

525
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,560
since, since about 85.
South How old were you when you

526
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,800
became a stage manager?
In your early 20s, Right 23.

527
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,280
Wow, 23.
That's impressive.

528
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,880
It, it sounds like like one of
the things I hear.

529
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,160
I get to talk to a lot of people
who were sort of at the

530
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,240
foundation of our industry
really.

531
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,840
And one of the things I hear
over and over again is, is just

532
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,160
that can do attitude of like,
you know, say yes and then go

533
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,720
figure it out.
No, exactly and it.

534
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,600
Sounds like you did the exact
same thing and and that ends up

535
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,600
making you a lot of friends and
getting getting your phone

536
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,960
number pretty popular among its
artists or managers or whatever.

537
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,040
Well, exactly.
And a few years ago I did AI

538
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,080
spoke and did a little session,
a little breakout session on

539
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,440
what they call breaking and
entering.

540
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,760
It was about how to get into the
business.

541
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,920
The graphics that I used were
kind of comical because coming

542
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,120
from Providence, RI and being
Italian descent, we knew a lot

543
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,000
about breaking and entering
around the town.

544
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:57,280
So but we the seminar was a few
different topics on for up and

545
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,720
coming.
Some of my panel were local

546
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:05,840
labor companies, a female tour
manager and a well seasoned

547
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,640
production manager.
We talked about different

548
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,840
aspects about breaking and
entry, being in the right place

549
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,760
at the right time, taking all
the calls.

550
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,120
Don't The minute you stop taking
calls from folks, you go to the

551
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,480
bottom of the list.
I mean, it's just you got to

552
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,040
stay active, especially when
you're first started possibly

553
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,640
working at a local theater or
arena, being a runner, any

554
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,520
anything that got you close to
the business was certainly a

555
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,800
factor in breaking an enter.
Yeah, so.

556
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,720
Yeah, I mean, again, it starts
with a particular attitude.

557
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,720
Like it starts with an attitude,
you know, and I'm going to

558
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,200
really try hard to avoid picking
on younger people today.

559
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,800
But one of the things and even
my own son, I struggle with this

560
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,360
sometimes.
Like they don't necessarily

561
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,720
automatically have that, oh, let
me give you a hand attitude,

562
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,400
right?
Like it?

563
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,480
It's all very structured and
very compartmental these days.

564
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,960
I was going to use the exact
word.

565
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,560
Yeah, I mean, it's very
compartmental.

566
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,520
So I was given this set of tasks
to do.

567
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,040
I'm going to do those and then
I'm going to go play PlayStation

568
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,679
or something, right?
Like that's, that's just how it

569
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:18,360
goes, right?
And so I've pushed since

570
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,120
probably he was 10 years old to
push my own son out of that type

571
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,960
of mentality.
And he does really well with it

572
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,880
some days, not so well other
days.

573
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:31,239
But it's, it's just a weird
cultural thing that didn't exist

574
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,280
when we were young.
You know, you just, you hung

575
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,920
around until the gig was over.
Right until the truck was

576
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:40,480
loaded, door was closed.
And it was pulling away and now

577
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,159
it's playtime or whatever,
right?

578
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,080
So, so, yeah, I mean, that's
probably one of the big changes

579
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,600
that you've witnessed over the
years is just the transition

580
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,440
from sort of that old school way
of doing things to to where

581
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,080
we're at today.
And there's a lot of good about

582
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,480
where we're at today too.
So I'm not just knocking.

583
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,280
People, I agree, but it's
different.

584
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,600
I do my best not to say this is
how we've done it for the past

585
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:13,520
47 years because that certainly
creates A blockade for any young

586
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,080
personnel coming through, you
know, but there are some

587
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:26,920
noticeable practices with the up
and coming versus the.

588
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,320
IT goes the other way too, you
know, get some older grumpy

589
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,200
fellas out there that this is
how we do it and are not open to

590
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,600
running the.
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591
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,720
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equipment rentals.

592
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,720
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theater show, producing a major

593
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:47,400
concert, or building out a
broadcast set, Main Light

594
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,280
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595
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,560
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596
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,440
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597
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,480
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598
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,760
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599
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,520
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600
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,240
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601
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,280
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602
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603
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604
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605
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606
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607
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608
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609
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610
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611
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,560
It it goes both ways.
But you know what though, I use

612
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,920
some of that stuff as material
to when I'm talking to younger

613
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,480
people.
So like, for example, if I'm

614
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,440
talking to a young person who
wants to become a touring

615
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,760
lighting designer or lighting
operator or whatever, and I see

616
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,200
some of those newer habits, I
might say to him, OK, so let me

617
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,040
ask you, how do you handle, you
know, these few different

618
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,480
scenarios?
And then I'll say, well, are you

619
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,720
familiar with Cosmo Wilson?
And he'll say, yeah, I know I've

620
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:24,800
heard of him.
I read some stories about him in

621
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,200
in Live Design magazine or
something.

622
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,720
And I'll say, well, you know
that Cosmo got there because he

623
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:35,840
said yes to everything.
And if you don't believe me, go

624
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,520
listen to my podcast number,
whatever number it is, and

625
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,600
you'll hear Cosmo telling you
that right out of his own mouth

626
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,760
that I said yes to everything.
And I just went and figured it

627
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,320
out to the best of my ability.
And if I felt like it was a

628
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,880
safety issue or something, I
might go to the production

629
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,640
manager and say, Hey, you know,
I kind of made a mistake

630
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,640
volunteering to do this because
I've never done it before and I

631
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,960
don't want to get hurt and I
don't want to hurt anybody else.

632
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,440
So can I either get some
education or maybe replace me

633
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:04,800
with someone who knows what
they're doing?

634
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,640
But, you know, like I use that
information to to tell younger

635
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,680
people about if you want to rise
above, you know, the people

636
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,800
around you, here's the ways to
do it, you know, is not to make

637
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,560
yourself invisible, but make
yourself visible in a very

638
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,120
positive way.
Like, you know, I finished the

639
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,400
job that I was doing.
Have you got anything else that

640
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,320
you'd like me to take care of?
You know, that's the great

641
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,000
attitude to have.
Yeah.

642
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,320
Well, I, I do remember it was
probably about 1986, had about

643
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,880
three years of stage and
production.

644
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,520
You don't remember that?
Yeah, I don't.

645
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,880
Remember 1986, John?
It was a good year, but I.

646
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,040
Don't.
It was a good year yeah.

647
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:55,160
IA stage and production
management gig wasn't available.

648
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,920
And of course those of us that
are still touring, we just have

649
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:03,680
this feeling that we have to
work for whatever reason where

650
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,400
it's not always money.
It's just sometimes you just

651
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,960
feel like if it's my last movie,
if the phone doesn't ring or

652
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,600
something.
So I took a gig.

653
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,440
I was very friendly with the
folks in San Francisco at the

654
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,680
time, Nocturne Nightmare
Productions.

655
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,240
It was Journeys management
company.

656
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,280
And so I was close with them and
they called one day and said,

657
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,360
hey, we got a lighting crew
chief gig.

658
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,160
Do you want to do it?
It's for a lover boy to wear, to

659
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,760
wear an 86.
I said sure, I'll do it.

660
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,000
And, you know, it was, it was
income, it was a paycheck.

661
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,680
And I remember running into
someone that I had run into on

662
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,040
the tour, they go, oh, you're a
lighting guy now.

663
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:51,400
I said, you know, I'm, I'm
whatever will keep propelling me

664
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,840
for.
And I think some of that may be

665
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,200
gone.
I hate that I I don't want to

666
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,320
say that as a blanketed
statement, but now because of

667
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,640
the formal training and.
There's young folks graduating

668
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:13,400
from schools like Full Sail or I
want to say it's the Crass is

669
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,480
the one in Phoenix, I want to
say but.

670
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,400
Even just regular schools like
traditional schools now have

671
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,640
you.
Know classes on products?

672
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,800
Yeah, lighting.
Consoles.

673
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,960
And yeah, and engineering.
And stuff.

674
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:31,240
Which is, in my opinion,
possibly what has created the

675
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,160
specialization or the
compartmentalization in that

676
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,360
they come out of school going
on.

677
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,000
I'm a lighting designer.
I go, how about being a

678
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,200
truckload at first?
That'll that, that'll.

679
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:45,960
True.
Yeah.

680
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,400
So their expectations are set so
high.

681
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,680
Plus, you know, again, another
thing about today is that

682
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,560
everyone's special.
You know, Johnny, you're

683
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,640
special, you know, so everyone
comes out thinking they're a

684
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,040
lighting designer when they
haven't designed anything yet,

685
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,760
you know, other than a test at
school or whatever.

686
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,520
But I think part of the problem
with with or not problem, but

687
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,760
part of the cause of
compartmentalization today is

688
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,280
really also around how technical
the gear has become.

689
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,280
You know, 'cause like I remember
when I was playing in bands in,

690
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:27,440
in the, would it be late 70s,
early 80s, I could walk up to a

691
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,880
sound craft 24 channel board and
be able to figure out how to

692
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,280
make it sound half decent.
And that wasn't that difficult.

693
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,640
I don't even know how to turn a
console on today, an audio

694
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,920
console, I mean, and I'm looking
for the outboard rack with all

695
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,080
the Eqs and stuff and it doesn't
exist.

696
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,920
It's all plugins and all this
stuff that I just, I don't

697
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,680
understand.
Like, I don't have any idea what

698
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,360
Dante is or how it works or all
of that stuff, you know?

699
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,040
And so I think it's just like
for you to become a lighting

700
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,880
crew chief today would be a
whole different challenge than

701
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,080
it was in the mid 80s when there
were no moving lights yet, or

702
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,080
very few.
And if you did have moving

703
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,120
lights, you had Verilight and
they had their own crew.

704
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,600
Exactly.
Yeah.

705
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,400
So I mean, being a lighting crew
chief, I'm not saying it was

706
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,760
easy, but it was a lot more easy
to figure out than it is today

707
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,400
with, you know, like I mean, you
got to be an IT guy too the the

708
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,440
networking that's going on in
rigs today because of the number

709
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,760
of channels that are being used.
It's just you got to be a

710
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,160
networking.
Expert as well as a lighting guy

711
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,520
as well as a digital this and
that, you know.

712
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,760
Elation Lighting presents the
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713
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,120
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714
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,240
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715
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716
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717
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718
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719
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,480
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720
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721
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,960
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722
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With an IP65 outdoor rating, it
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723
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,640
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724
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,840
Featuring a customizable logo
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725
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726
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727
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,240
So.
You speak about the the audio

728
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,120
console and not being able to
turn me on.

729
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,000
My wife and I own a a restaurant
plus A-250 seat venue in

730
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,240
Northern Nevada and we have AI
don't know a digital N 32.

731
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,560
I think it is a Midas console
and talk about not being able to

732
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,040
turn it on.
I I I fall into that category

733
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,720
here I am in management when it
comes to touring, but I think

734
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,520
the key now with management and
leadership.

735
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,520
It used to be at at that point,
I want to say when I was in the

736
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,120
in the sweet spot of my
production management career.

737
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:19,240
If you still learning, still
pushing boxes, everybody did

738
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:23,200
jump in and do different things.
And with the specialization now

739
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,720
I'm, I think we're fortunate as
production managers to have some

740
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:34,040
really knowledgeable crew chiefs
that really understand more than

741
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,560
their little, yeah, little
space.

742
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,760
Yeah, because you even though
they're specializing.

743
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,600
Right.
You didn't just do one thing

744
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,640
really well or whatever you
like.

745
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,600
I remember I think it was Howard
Ungerleider who told me that he

746
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,960
he used to do settlements for
Rush in the.

747
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,520
Early, I'm sure.
You know.

748
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,760
I'm sure.
Designer and half the time he

749
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,720
was lighting designer,
production manager.

750
00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:57,960
He drove the van.
Yeah, and.

751
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,320
And he did settlement, you know,
and it's like, wow, that's

752
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,160
pretty crazy.
But you know, I know a lot of I

753
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,960
know a lot of LDS who who were
in that position where.

754
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,640
They handle settlement.
Maybe just to make sure they got

755
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:12,760
paid.
I don't know.

756
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,760
But you know, yeah, it's, it is
a different world.

757
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,800
It's much more corporate now.
There's a lot more money

758
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,760
involved, which means you're
going to have more sort of

759
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,560
experts or, or like instead of
generalists like many of the

760
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,520
touring people were back in the
early days.

761
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,680
Today you do have more expertise
and stuff too.

762
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,720
But again, I think that it's
created a version of, I won't, I

763
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,240
don't want to call it laziness,
but in a sense it kind of is

764
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,880
laziness.
Like when my particular job is

765
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,040
done, I'm going to walk away.
I'm not going to.

766
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,840
And like, so if you see two
lighting designers standing next

767
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:56,520
to each other, one guy's, you
know, 30 and one guy's 60, I

768
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,560
think they're going to have a
different approach to that.

769
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,520
The the 60 year old is going to
be standing around until the,

770
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,480
the truck doors close.
And the 30 year old might

771
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,840
already be off at, at, you know,
a restaurant with his girlfriend

772
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,400
or with his buddies or
something.

773
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,440
And it just is a different
mentality.

774
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,960
Yeah, I agree.
Seems like it anyway.

775
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,360
I agree.
You know, the interesting part

776
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,040
about settlements now is, you
know, they're, they're all

777
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,440
electronic.
Used to be as a tour manager,

778
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,960
which I've, I've done as well,
you'd be in a settlement room

779
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,120
for hours, you know, even if
there was big discrepancies,

780
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:39,240
counting the drop, you know,
counting the ticket drop to make

781
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:43,000
sure that the promoter wasn't
stealing the income thing.

782
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,760
So that's all change.
I mean, that's all change with

783
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,440
it's all electronic.
And of course, you got one for

784
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,880
the most part, very few
promoters now and the depth of

785
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,960
these promoters is pretty clear
and trustworthy.

786
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,560
Yeah, live.
In theory trying.

787
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,240
To nickel and dime you on.
Additional expenses, probably

788
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,640
they're not.
Yeah, exactly.

789
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,440
Yeah, yeah.
But.

790
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,320
I agree with that.
That makes a lot of sense.

791
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,840
So when did you transition like
from the stage management into

792
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:23,480
other aspects of management?
So interestingly enough, in

793
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:30,920
about 1987 I was in Italy with
Sinatra and got home and I was

794
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,960
working for three bands at the
same time.

795
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,840
I think I was production manager
for Night Ranger at the time,

796
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,240
Production manager from band
from England called the outfield

797
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,680
bringing them over to the
States.

798
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,600
And I was a site coordinator for
Nocturne on the Sinatra tour.

799
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,160
I got home by the way.
Being in Italy with Sinatra.

800
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,080
Yeah, that was for.
An Italian guy.

801
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,360
Yeah, that was OK.
You know, you don't have to pay

802
00:47:58,360 --> 00:47:59,320
me.
I just want to do.

803
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,880
This it's, yeah, it was almost
that.

804
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,040
Yeah, it was almost like that.
But I got home within 48 hours

805
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:12,200
of my first son being born.
And I said, boy, this is by this

806
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,680
time I'm in it 10 years, almost
10 years.

807
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,720
And he said I got to figure out
somehow to stay home.

808
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,800
So I started a, a set
construction company.

809
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:29,120
We were building risers and and
things of that nature right here

810
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,200
in Northern Nevada.
And our friends at Nocturne, who

811
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,480
was then run by the late Herbie
Herbert.

812
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,680
I don't know if you've heard
that mean Herbie managed

813
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,120
journey.
I remember, I remember.

814
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,440
So Herbie was a friend and he
said, I don't want you to start

815
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,960
building some stuff for me.
And I think we built some

816
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,520
Michael Bolton stuff, some other
bands that he managed, Great

817
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,560
White at the time, few other
bands.

818
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,240
And then what happened is
Nocturne, Nocturne then

819
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:04,280
purchased all the lighting from
Tate Towers when Tate Towers was

820
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,440
a lighting count, when Michael
Tate was a lighting.

821
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,760
And he said, hey, we've got to
Herbie Cosby.

822
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,920
He says, hey, Grinder, if
something's changed, we've got

823
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:20,160
to give our set construction
business the tape, and we're

824
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,640
taking their lighting
construction.

825
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:28,640
But I still want you to build
small stuff for me if need be.

826
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,560
Yeah.
So I started the set

827
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,880
construction company.
One thing led to another.

828
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:37,280
Tape, of course, was on this
trajectory because they, you

829
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:42,040
know, they were, they were and
are one of the finest set

830
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,360
fabricators just ever, of
course, ever.

831
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,800
And anyway, my set construction
business and one day Berby calls

832
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,760
me.
He says we just got MC Hammer.

833
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,240
Tate doesn't want to do it, you
want to do it.

834
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,800
And we said, sure, we'll build
it.

835
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:02,560
And we our first very large
stage set, multiple trucks stage

836
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,000
set that was 88 I want to say.
Wow.

837
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:11,120
So I I then went into set
construction business and opened

838
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,720
a business here in Northern
Nevada and then one in

839
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:19,760
Nashville, TN few years later.
And I won't say we weren't the

840
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,320
highly technological set
construction company like Tate,

841
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,920
but we were very well known
theatrical set construction

842
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,720
company.
It was called Stagecraft and we

843
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:33,120
were Stagecraft Nevada,
Stagecraft Nashville.

844
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:40,080
And we wound up coining the
phrase MTV to Mickey Mouse, Pink

845
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,200
Floyd to the Pope because those
are the sets that we built in

846
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,080
our 1518 year tenure.
That's pretty cool.

847
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:54,400
And then early 2000s, we had a
unfortunate demise, too big, too

848
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,520
fast kind of thing.
And so I went back into tour

849
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,800
management.
So over those 15 years, while I

850
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:06,280
did not tour is a production
manager, I spent a lot of time

851
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,840
interacting with them production
managers and spent an awful lot

852
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,160
of time.
So you didn't do a single tour

853
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,720
over that period of time?
No, I did actually.

854
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:21,040
What I was a consultant to MTV
and their touring properties.

855
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,200
So I would be out a lot.
The, the, the notion of staying

856
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:31,760
home because I had a now a young
family didn't, didn't quite come

857
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,320
to fruition.
I found myself in Nashville a

858
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,760
lot in New York a lot with the
MTV and Viacom properties

859
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,680
because we started doing
consulting to touring properties

860
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:53,320
for MTV, VH1, Nickelodeon and so
I still toured, but I, I

861
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,240
wouldn't say I toured.
I'd go out, do traveled, start

862
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,920
up dates and things like that.
And we grew the company from my

863
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,960
garage basically to an $11
million year company.

864
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:09,600
And back in the 90s was a feat.
Yeah, that's it was a feat,

865
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,520
yeah.
That's a lot of steel.

866
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,760
It's a lot, well, a lot of
aluminum.

867
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,400
We were aluminum, true.
We got we got chastised for

868
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,240
using steel in the rock'n'roll,
right?

869
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:23,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So then so you you came back out

870
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:29,800
of that in the early 2000s.
Two, yeah or 2000 So a manager

871
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,760
from Sonoma, Bruce Cohn, who
managed The Doobie Brothers for

872
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,440
40 years and managed Night
Ranger and managed Bruce Hornsby

873
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:42,080
and managed Ambrosia.
Olivia Newton John.

874
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:49,280
I wound up kind of helping him
with some of these acts for

875
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,280
different projects.
One became The Doobie Brothers

876
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,120
and then on and off for about 17
years, I to a managed or

877
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:02,680
production managed The Doobie
Brothers for Bruce, for Bruce.

878
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,680
OK.
And then that was up until.

879
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,360
So that brought me to, I don't
know, 2016.

880
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,360
I want to say what is it?
Yeah, 2015.

881
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,160
I think I had a little change in
my life.

882
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:25,320
I lost a grandson in a car
accident, and so I took some

883
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,120
time away from The Doobie
Brothers and wound up getting a

884
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,200
call from Peter Frampton's camp,
and I've been with them ever

885
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,680
since.
So yeah, so about 10 years.

886
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:42,800
And I enjoy I enjoy working with
legacy ads because we're

887
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:49,560
typically we're typically, you
know, 2-3 trucks, maybe 10 AM

888
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:55,000
load insurance.
I, yeah, it is I, I boy, I

889
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,760
really respect these production
managers that are out doing, you

890
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:06,680
know, 12 to 20 trucks.
My friend Chad Guy.

891
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,080
Yeah, Marty telling.
Me last was it last year when he

892
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,000
did all these stadium shows and
he was like, you know, I'm, I'm

893
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,320
exhausted.
Like, yeah, from from the stage

894
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:22,040
to the to to my office in the
stadium could be, you know,

895
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,040
hundreds of yards or whatever.
And I'm doing it 100 times a day

896
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,400
on multiple shows for, you know,
an entire year of stadium shows.

897
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,880
It's exhausting you.
Know well, I mean a dear friend,

898
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,680
Chad guy who you probably know.
I'm not sure if you interviewed

899
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,520
Chad, He's from he's from he's
from Canada.

900
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,640
He's was a promoter Rep up
there.

901
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:49,920
He wound up he in the last five
or six years kiss from kiss.

902
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,440
He goes to Morgan Wallin, which
is, you know, one of the biggest

903
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,600
shows out there and he does a
great job.

904
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,160
But I'm sure you know, he's got
two daughters that are growing

905
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,720
and sure takes a toll out of it.
But he's he's a great production

906
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:08,920
manager, but he's got, he's
doing the stadium shows with, I

907
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,840
don't know, 30 trucks probably.
Yeah, it's it's.

908
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,280
It's a lot of work.
Yeah, it's a lot of work.

909
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,440
Well, Marty.
Marty, last year I think he had

910
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,520
Olivia, what's her name?
Olivia.

911
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:21,440
Rodrigo.
Rodrigo.

912
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:31,640
And Beyoncé and what's her name?
The Colombian, Lebanese one.

913
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:37,680
Shakira.
Shakira and something else, too,

914
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,000
like he had all these stadium
shows going at the same time

915
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,240
practically, and I was like,
you're a madman, you know?

916
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:46,560
He is.
He works.

917
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,840
He works a lot and he still does
a few of the legacy acts I

918
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,720
believe that are still out
there, but.

919
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,360
Stevie Nicks or.
Stevie Nicks here.

920
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:56,120
Yeah.
Yeah.

921
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:56,880
What?
They're depending.

922
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,440
I was at that time.
Yeah.

923
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,080
Yeah.
Wild.

924
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,320
Yeah, it is.
It is.

925
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,520
Peter Frampton though, like I
remember one time, you know,

926
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,840
Donnie Carone from upstaging,
I'm guessing?

927
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:08,680
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.

928
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,040
Donnie, one time I was talking
to him saying you got to get

929
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,840
bored of doing James Taylor
every year.

930
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,560
This was back when every single
year he went out with James

931
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,480
Taylor and he said, are you
kidding?

932
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,520
And I said, what do you mean?
And he said, well, number one,

933
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,720
we stay in the same hotel that
James stays in.

934
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,920
And, you know, so it's not like
James is at the Ritz and we're

935
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,000
at the, you know, Holiday Inn
down the road or whatever.

936
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,560
He treats us amazing.
He's an amazing guy.

937
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,520
It's it's a great crowd.
It's pretty low stress.

938
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,640
We can do whatever we want as
long as, you know, it's not

939
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,800
broken or something.
And he said, I wish all tours

940
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,680
were like this.
So.

941
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,160
Well, speaking, I'd have to
concur.

942
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:59,800
I mean, Peter.
And of course, our touring in

943
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,240
the last four years has changed.
Peter is battling A muscular

944
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,280
disease that that prevents him
from.

945
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,400
Yeah, And.
But still playing like crazy.

946
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,520
It's it's it's amazing.
But he treats us so well.

947
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:19,440
And he really respects each and
every one of us for what we do.

948
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:25,760
He really, and I don't speak, I
don't speak badly against any

949
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,280
other person that I've worked
for.

950
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,640
But Peter, once you build a
rapport with him, he, he trusts

951
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,480
you and believes you to be in
charge of the business that he's

952
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,400
hired you to be in charge of,
which I love that.

953
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,560
I mean, he's set in his ways.
He knows what he wants.

954
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,800
He communicates it to you.
But yeah, we're, we're in, we're

955
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,960
in Four Seasons of Ritz
Carlton's with Peter.

956
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:53,680
We don't stay at separate
hotels, rarely the busing, you

957
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,600
know, we're not 12 people on a
bus anymore.

958
00:57:55,600 --> 00:58:01,720
We're six or seven.
And yeah, no, it's, it's what

959
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,160
it's what I think.
Yeah, I think it's what will

960
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,840
allow me to stay out there until
maybe, maybe 70.

961
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:10,880
I don't.
Not even just allow you, but

962
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,560
inspire.
You inspire me.

963
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,880
It's real.
Enjoyable being out with and

964
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,360
he's just a class guy.
Like yeah, he's a class.

965
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,640
Guy So what exactly happened
with because I remember, and I

966
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,080
might be remembering this wrong
because again, I'm getting

967
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:29,840
older, but didn't he like
completely retire and stop

968
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,240
touring a few years ago and then
sort of started it up again?

969
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:40,720
So 2018 was when I believe it
was 2018 that it was detected

970
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:47,640
that he this could be very
problematic for and so he did a

971
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,120
farewell tour.
Right, that's what I'm

972
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,360
remembering.
What he chose to do in the

973
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:59,200
interim was really pay attention
to this mitosis muscular

974
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:07,280
degenerative muscular disease
and work with some really major

975
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,080
pioneers that was studying this.
And he got involved with the

976
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,920
that organization.
I believe there's been some

977
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:23,880
treatments that he found to be
helpful and he realized one day,

978
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:28,040
hey, I really can still play.
I might have a a little bit of

979
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,040
difficulty with some lower
extremities, but I really can

980
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:36,440
still play.
So we came back out and we came

981
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:45,440
back out, I want to say it's
2021 came back out and late 2021

982
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,440
and we've been doing these short
little stits.

983
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:54,440
I mean, we do three weeks at a
time, maybe 3 or 4 * a year and

984
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,280
he fares very well.
I mean what is?

985
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:03,280
His disease managed now or is it
still progressing or like how

986
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,600
does that all work?
I don't know exactly.

987
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:11,360
I mean, I believe it's managed.
I believe that he pays an awful

988
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,640
lot of attention to what helps
keep it managed.

989
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:20,960
Diet, exercise, his training.
He's got this beautiful service

990
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,280
dog that he spends a lot of time
with.

991
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,280
He has grandchildren, I think 2
grandchildren at the moment,

992
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:35,720
perhaps third one on the way.
Really, really, really life

993
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,280
changing things for him that I
believe keep him just ahead of

994
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,520
it.
It's funny that sometimes not

995
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:46,160
funny, but it's interesting that
sometimes it takes something

996
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,720
like that to just change
everything.

997
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:54,000
Like you get sustenance, you
sustain your life longer because

998
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,480
something like that happens a
little earlier in your life and

999
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,280
gives you a wake up call and
makes you change your lifestyle

1000
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,680
and start eating better and
things like that.

1001
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,160
Like I've known a lot of people
who had, you know, a minor heart

1002
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,600
attack and if they didn't have
the minor heart attack, they

1003
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:13,400
probably would have got diabetes
and 15 other things and cancer

1004
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,440
and everything else.
Because it's, it's all those

1005
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,440
lifestyle things contribute to
all those different diseases,

1006
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,680
right?
And so once one of them gives

1007
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,680
you a wake up call and you
completely change your

1008
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:27,880
lifestyle, you know, sometimes
that gives you another 20 years

1009
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:28,720
or.
More, you know.

1010
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,400
So yeah.
I was at, I was at an industry

1011
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:37,440
conference, must have been five
years ago and they were offering

1012
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:44,440
ACPR breakout where you can go
get certified through CPR.

1013
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:46,440
So I did it and.
That which?

1014
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,520
Which conference was that?
Because I remember that.

1015
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,520
It was.
What do they used to call it?

1016
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,720
Was it the one not perfect?
Not the one in Palm Springs?

1017
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:55,840
Exactly.
Exactly.

1018
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:56,720
Yeah.
Jesus.

1019
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,120
I should remember the name of.
It but it's changed now to where

1020
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,880
Mario educate in his company
OSA, right?

1021
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,920
They manage it now.
What was it called before that?

1022
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:13,760
LPL.
PS:.

1023
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:19,200
LP.
Live Production Summit LP.

1024
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:20,520
'S that is it.
You're right.

1025
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,560
Yep, so they did the CPR class
and the and the instructor

1026
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:30,000
started off by saying any of you
that work for legacy artists,

1027
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:39,560
even if they stopped their vices
with drugs and alcohol 30 years

1028
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:44,800
ago, what they did to themselves
is likely to take a toll on them

1029
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,360
at some point.
And the CPR will be necessary.

1030
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:55,440
And while thank God, you know, a
lot of this didn't happen on the

1031
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,680
road during the show or
something like that, but you

1032
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:01,720
could see where these artists
that did beat themselves up in

1033
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,160
the 70s and maybe even to the
80s.

1034
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,440
What is it?
What has happened to them

1035
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,280
certainly is taking a toll, sort
of what they put themselves

1036
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,680
through.
And yeah, I I'm happy I've not

1037
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:18,000
had to pull out a defibrillator
or use the CPR training.

1038
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,800
Not yet anyway.
Yeah, exactly.

1039
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:21,480
But, you know, then there's
Keith Richards.

1040
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:23,680
Yeah.
You know, like.

1041
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,680
That there's the anomaly.
Or, or you know, a guy you

1042
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:30,800
mentioned earlier, Sammy Hagar.
I mean, the guy loves tequila

1043
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,960
still.
He loves rum and he shows it

1044
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,680
every day.
He he has a good time in life,

1045
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,600
and yet he still sings like a
bird still.

1046
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:41,640
Towards like.
Crazy.

1047
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,720
And works like crazy, I mean.
It's awesome.

1048
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,080
I love guys like that.
I love, you know, Steven Tyler

1049
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,600
is what is he now 76 or?
Something.

1050
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,080
Yeah, I think so.
And I mean, I don't know if

1051
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,680
you've seen him sing recently,
but he did that thing with

1052
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,040
Youngblood a couple weeks ago or
something amazing like.

1053
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,360
The guy just.
Sounds incredible.

1054
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,520
Looks like a rock star.
At 76 years old, he's still

1055
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,120
looks like Steven Tyler jumps
around and does all the stuff he

1056
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:13,240
does, you know, So I don't know,
like the thing I think the bad

1057
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,920
thing that this is saying to
youth today is drugs and alcohol

1058
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,520
are really good for you.
And you should keep doing it

1059
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,200
because it's going to make you
look like you're 40 when you're

1060
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,840
70, you know, because that's
what you see from these guys.

1061
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,840
But I think that they just have
such, whether it's a strong

1062
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,160
regimen somewhere else that's
just offsetting all of that

1063
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,680
stuff or whatever 'cause, you
know, there's certainly nothing

1064
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,360
good about drugs or alcohol from
a health standpoint.

1065
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,920
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, I also think there's

1066
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,360
there's some of these artists
like Tyler, you know, that just

1067
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:51,080
understand their role as
leaders.

1068
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:52,720
You know, they just understand
it.

1069
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,720
I mean, they may not have been
successful at practicing it as

1070
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:02,720
far as iconic leaders, but, you
know, a funny story about

1071
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,640
Steven.
My wife and I were at the Cmas.

1072
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:09,840
I don't know, a few years ago,
The Doobie Brothers were invited

1073
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:14,200
to play at the Cmas and we had
this dressing room that we

1074
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:18,480
shared with Tyler, Garth Brooks,
Doobie Brothers, Keith Urban.

1075
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:24,840
And Tyler was hilarious and, you
know, commanded the room quite

1076
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:26,880
well.
But the next morning, my wife

1077
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:31,280
and I were getting on a plane to
go to Boston, see my family and

1078
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,440
Tyler's up front.
And he remembered us.

1079
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,600
He was, hey, hey, you guys, what
are you going to Boston for?

1080
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,400
And he carried on this
conversation as we were getting

1081
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,360
on the plane.
And we kind of held up the line

1082
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,200
a little bit.
He was getting in first class

1083
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,680
with his dog.
And my wife and I were right

1084
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:53,200
behind him and not in first
class, but, you know, not too

1085
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:58,160
far back.
But his mind, it just goes to

1086
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:02,160
explain, goes to say what, you
know, those that can keep their

1087
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,360
mind in.
Yeah.

1088
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,400
You know, it's just how well,
why?

1089
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,440
How in the world would he
remember us?

1090
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:10,000
Yeah, that's.
He did.

1091
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:11,320
Yeah.
It was impressive.

1092
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,160
People that he meets?
Exactly not.

1093
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,080
Forgetting like we all do.
Right, it's the number of.

1094
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,320
People that he meets on a daily
basis.

1095
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,640
Yeah.
Who feel like they're important,

1096
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,920
but to him it's just another
10,000 people today or whatever.

1097
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,720
Like the fact that he'd remember
you is a pretty big deal.

1098
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,800
And not only that, he there was
a there was a discussion of us

1099
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:38,600
going to Maui for New Year's Eve
because we're my neighbor and

1100
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,160
dear friend is Dave Mason, he
and his wife.

1101
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:46,280
And yeah, yeah.
And so anyway, we've been

1102
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,400
friends for a while and since
they moved here 12 years ago.

1103
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,160
And anyway, somehow the
discussion got you go on to New

1104
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,720
Year's Eve for this event that
happens in New Year's Eve.

1105
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:58,880
And he remember that.
He says, hey, we're going to see

1106
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,440
you in in Maui on New Year's
Eve.

1107
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,240
And I'm going, how does he
remember this?

1108
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,160
There was had to be 100 people
in the dressing room last night

1109
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,120
or two nights ago.
Something to impress him,

1110
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,600
obviously, because he picked you
out of a crowd.

1111
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,240
My wife, she's she looks a lot
better than I do for sure.

1112
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,080
Oh, OK.
Great, she can light up a room.

1113
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:22,160
Well, that's like the rest of
them.

1114
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:23,760
That's.
Like my fiance, you know, my

1115
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:27,800
fiance's basically the same age
as me, but she looks 25 years

1116
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:33,360
younger than me or more and and
she's stunningly beautiful.

1117
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:37,040
So, you know, there you go.
People talk to me now that

1118
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:39,920
wouldn't have talked to me
before because of her, you know.

1119
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:44,040
And so, hey, if if, if it's
helpful like that, you know, I'm

1120
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,520
certainly not going to lend them
out to you or anything, but you

1121
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,880
know, if it's helpful in in that
sort of a conversation or

1122
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,000
whatever, that's a great thing.
So yeah, I think for me it's the

1123
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,600
same reason.
Yeah.

1124
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:01,120
But so, you know, we we talked a
lot about young people, old

1125
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:03,440
people, etcetera.
And and by the way, thank you so

1126
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,040
much that you're joining us for
the dining with dinosaurs thing

1127
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,520
this year.
That's, it's going to be such a

1128
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,520
blast.
Like I looked over this list a

1129
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:15,400
couple days ago, LDI sent me an
updated list of of the people

1130
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,439
who have signed up for it.
And I'm just like, wow, what a

1131
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,640
group of people this.
Yeah, I was like, I couldn't

1132
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,800
agree more.
It's awesome and there's still

1133
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,760
people banging on the door
saying they want in.

1134
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,520
Like we actually have a waiting
list right now for some people

1135
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,399
on that because LDI, of course,
because of costs and things,

1136
01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:35,880
they're going to clip our wings
at some number and we keep

1137
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,040
trying to push it.
Three more, five more.

1138
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,359
Come on, let's go to this.
Because, you know, at the end of

1139
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:43,720
the day, there's a lot of
legends in our industry.

1140
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,840
And this whole thing is about
people like yourself who are

1141
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:52,000
willing to have conversations
and share stories and share

1142
01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:57,720
teachings with younger people
because our industry can only be

1143
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,200
sustained if if we bring more
people into it.

1144
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,080
And COVID was a great lesson in
that.

1145
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:03,000
You.
Know we.

1146
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:08,120
We didn't have a strong bench.
And so when she hit the fan, we

1147
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,399
didn't have a pool to dig from
and, and it became very

1148
01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:15,479
problematic where shows were
struggling to get enough bodies

1149
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,080
just to keep the show or get the
show out the door or whatever.

1150
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,319
And so we have to, we have to
create a stronger bench.

1151
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:26,399
We have to have better coaching
and training and mentoring to

1152
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:29,600
bring people into the industry.
And like you said at the very

1153
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,840
beginning of this this podcast,
you said your parents thought

1154
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,520
you were joining the circus.
And I think that that's still a

1155
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:42,800
bit of a sort of, it's a, it's a
feeling that people get when you

1156
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,279
say, Hey, why don't you join the
touring industry or go out on a

1157
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:48,520
tour?
And I even said it to my son,

1158
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,000
Hey, you know, do you want to
gain some experience in the

1159
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,720
world?
I can talk to a few friends and

1160
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,480
get you out on a tour doing
something.

1161
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,480
And he's like, well, why would I
want to do that?

1162
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:02,200
Like, you know, and he thinks
that you sleep in the back seats

1163
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:06,400
of, of vans and, and that you,
you know, people are stoned and

1164
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,800
drunk all the time.
And he doesn't do drugs or drink

1165
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,760
for some crazy reason.
I don't even understand it

1166
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:16,400
myself.
And, and, you know, just that

1167
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:21,600
perception is that it is a bunch
of gypsies, you know, touring in

1168
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:25,720
vans, you know, and it's like
the circus coming to town,

1169
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:27,080
right?
And they all rape and pillage

1170
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,480
all the girls.
And it's different now, you

1171
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,880
know, It's very different now.
I also think the term tour has

1172
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:41,000
gotten to be used so loosely.
I mean, as I mentioned earlier,

1173
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:46,360
my wife and I have a 250 seat
venue and we by acts of all

1174
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,600
different sizes and kinds and
they use the term tour.

1175
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,920
This act is on tour.
Well because they're going from

1176
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,600
Sacramento to Reno doesn't mean
they're on tour.

1177
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:02,560
I think the term touring is also
been kind of elevated to a

1178
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,920
pretty loose, loose term, very
broad, very broad.

1179
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,160
So.
Your venue is in Tahoe.

1180
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,640
We are in Carson City, Carson
City, NV the name of the place.

1181
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:20,920
My wife and I have had a second
home in Nashville, TN since 9495

1182
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,760
I want to say.
And so we watched this Nashville

1183
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:31,080
culture change and while we
liked it, we liked the change up

1184
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:34,240
until recent.
I think it's grown a little too

1185
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:35,440
much, but too.
Crazy now.

1186
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:40,360
So we opened a venue in Northern
Nevada called the Nashville

1187
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,480
Social Club, which is got some
private dining.

1188
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:49,320
It's got, it's a restaurant, 250
seat venue, a little bit on the

1189
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,600
concept of a City Winery kind of
space.

1190
01:11:53,040 --> 01:12:00,360
And we've been open three years
and we have acts up, up and

1191
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,800
coming baby acts.
We have legacy acts.

1192
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,520
We just had Pablo Cruz for two
nights, Booker T Jones for two

1193
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:07,640
nights.
Yeah.

1194
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,440
So we do all kinds of stuff and
it's very intimate. 250 seats.

1195
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:14,040
Interesting.
And yeah.

1196
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,840
Is it?
Hard to get axe in a venue like

1197
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:20,440
that though, when when it's sort
of in the middle of nowhere.

1198
01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:25,160
And it's like, because again,
normally when you have a venue

1199
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,600
and you want to start getting
axe, they're on tour and they

1200
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,800
go, OK, yeah, we can, we can
route that on our tour.

1201
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:32,440
And it makes a lot of sense.
But.

1202
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:36,120
We're decent, yeah, in the
middle of.

1203
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,440
Nowhere.
It sounds like it would be

1204
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:41,720
harder to route Axe.
We actually do about 60 shows a

1205
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,760
year.
So wow, that's pretty good of

1206
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:50,800
all different levels.
And we wind up finding Bay Area

1207
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,920
heading back E via maybe Salt
Lake.

1208
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,920
So we're a good stop free Salt
Lake City.

1209
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,560
There's maybe one or two others
stops.

1210
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:07,520
So yeah, it's, it's actually
we're the Reno Tahoe market and

1211
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:12,240
we're a good size for baby Axe
or like I said, legacy Axe that

1212
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,360
could do 400 CS will maybe do 2
shows with them.

1213
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,360
Interesting, So is there a
Nashville social club in

1214
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:22,520
Nashville too?
No, no, that's interesting.

1215
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:23,680
There isn't.
Yeah.

1216
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:26,880
No, it's, it's the concept was
to build five of these on the

1217
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:30,080
West Coast, but we're we're
still trying to figure out how

1218
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,880
to manage one.
Yeah, well, I mean, big cohones

1219
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:37,040
opening a venue right after
COVID, you know, I mean,

1220
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:39,520
obviously.
Yeah, I'm reminded of that.

1221
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,640
I'm reminded of that, Yeah.
It's, you know, opening a venue

1222
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,320
right after all the venues got
crushed, you know, and got paid

1223
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,080
well by being crushed in many
places too.

1224
01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:56,480
But yeah, that's that's big, big
cohones, right?

1225
01:13:56,480 --> 01:13:58,000
There I like.
That I like it.

1226
01:13:58,440 --> 01:14:00,880
That's very cool.
Well, that's maybe, maybe

1227
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,760
smaller brains.
Yeah, yeah.

1228
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,200
So you've told me about
Stagecraft, and you've told me

1229
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,200
now about Nashville Social Club,
but what about Chili Bop?

1230
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:12,840
So.
Where's the name come from?

1231
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:16,080
So my grandson, his name was
Chili.

1232
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,880
And as I said, we lost him in
2016, by the way.

1233
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,560
So that's what I named my
company because I used to call

1234
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,520
him the Bopper.
So that's where Chili Bop came

1235
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:27,520
from.
Oh wow.

1236
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,280
Very personal.
Yeah, most of what I did with

1237
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,240
Chili Bop was consulting
siblings.

1238
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:41,120
I spent spent many years
consulting to a few wineries up

1239
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,320
in Sonoma for the little
festivals that they would do.

1240
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:52,760
I spent some time with a company
called Bass Hologram out of LA.

1241
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,360
They were owned by the Becker
Becker family, which used to be

1242
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:01,880
Pace Pace before Live Nation and
Player Channel.

1243
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,320
It was Pace Concerts, Pace
Motorsports.

1244
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:07,440
That was the Becker family.
So Brian Becker was the

1245
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:11,520
president of that company and so
he hired me as vice president of

1246
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:17,480
operations, but I spent most of
the time as as in doing that.

1247
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,920
It was a startup developmental
company and COVID kind of

1248
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:28,160
crushed the hologram business.
So base hologram did what?

1249
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:37,560
Developed holograms of legacy,
mainly deceased artists.

1250
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,840
Like Michael Jackson could go
out on tour.

1251
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:43,000
Exactly.
We are properties technology

1252
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,840
exactly.
And it's our our properties that

1253
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:52,560
we had license to do was Roy
Orbison, Buddy Holly, Whitney

1254
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:58,200
Houston, Maria Callas, the opera
singer we had and we did these

1255
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:04,960
full length concerts.
In fact, we were in Europe on

1256
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:11,280
March 9th, I want to say right
before the close shutdown of all

1257
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,800
the airports with a Whitney
Houston tour and we got

1258
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,560
everybody home safely.
Decked out and and how good was

1259
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:20,600
the technology?
Like were people fooled?

1260
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,440
Yes, you know the suspension of
disbelief, but it only lasts a

1261
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:31,120
very short time.
After you brought the 4th song

1262
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:39,000
in, you go, I get it.
And it's it's I think it kind of

1263
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:43,480
tapered off as the show went on.
The opening numbers were

1264
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:45,920
fabulous.
The effects in this hologram

1265
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:51,920
appearing, Maria Callas, for
instance, it was an opera show,

1266
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:57,880
so it had a full orchestra and
Maria as a hologram would walk

1267
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,320
on stage from stage right to
center stage.

1268
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:06,760
And the effects that we did, the
Foley effects, her footsteps,

1269
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:11,080
because an opera is supposed to
be an acoustic show, but we used

1270
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:16,360
amplification and the acoustic,
the Foley, we would track her

1271
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:23,320
steps as she moved across stage.
So it would pan that that those

1272
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,280
kinds of things made you a
believer.

1273
01:17:26,480 --> 01:17:31,720
But you get 30 minutes into the
show and you go, OK, I've seen

1274
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:34,600
it.
So as a special effect, I saw a

1275
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:40,600
special effect done with Queen
where Brian May and Freddie did

1276
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,480
a duo together.
I.

1277
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:43,560
Saw that that.
Was.

1278
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,320
And it was.
And it was believable.

1279
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,560
It was, and it was breathtaking.
To be believable because you

1280
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,080
weren't trying to, because you
had, When I saw it, it was Paul

1281
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:55,000
Rogers was touring with them and
so you had Paul Rogers doing

1282
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,280
most of the vocals.
But then I think Brian and

1283
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,240
Freddie did.
I don't.

1284
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:02,040
Remember love of my life I think
it was.

1285
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,040
Love of my life.
Yeah.

1286
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:06,640
And it was just beautiful.
Like if you didn't have a tear

1287
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,120
in your eye, there was something
wrong with you.

1288
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,520
But this was in the very early
days of them doing that.

1289
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,080
But the.
But the video of I don't even

1290
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:15,880
believe it was a hologram at the
time.

1291
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,240
I think it.
Was just, it was probably a LED.

1292
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:20,800
Yeah, it was just him on the
screen singing.

1293
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,880
Along with Brian and Brian
looking up at him the whole time

1294
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:25,800
and stuff.
And it was beautiful.

1295
01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:30,720
But now you're actually trying
to get, you know, artists that

1296
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:32,320
you're calling legacy artists,
but they're.

1297
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,320
Deceased duets, Yeah, you're
getting.

1298
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,200
Them doing duets, you're getting
them.

1299
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,240
Like, did you ever do anything
with Paul Dexter on this?

1300
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:45,520
Paul Dexter, Why do I know that?
Lighting designer worked with

1301
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:48,800
loads of different acts.
He did the movie Rockstar.

1302
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:53,680
He did some movies and and lots
and lots of different bands, but

1303
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,520
he did a Dio hologram.
Oh, right, right.

1304
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:57,960
That's why I know the name.
Yeah.

1305
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:05,440
So the DIO hologram was not us,
but there was a DIO and a Zappa

1306
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:07,840
one that was done.
Zappa one as well.

1307
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,120
That might be the company that
Paul worked with.

1308
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,400
Yeah, possibly.
Yeah, well, and I don't know

1309
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,240
where it's at right now, but I
know Paul was also working on

1310
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:21,560
one with Canadian band Triumph
and where it was a little bit

1311
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:26,480
different though, because you
kind of had holograms playing

1312
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,280
or, or acting or whatever you
want to call it, creating a

1313
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:34,000
visual for a band that was sort
of behind the curtain that was

1314
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:38,000
actually playing this stuff.
And that band in itself was sort

1315
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,320
of an A list of musicians as
well.

1316
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,680
And so I don't know where that's
at.

1317
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,680
I was actually talking with Gil
the drummer and Triumph about

1318
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:50,240
it, and it was meant to go out
sometime this year.

1319
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:54,360
But I don't know whether it's a,
a sales problem or a, you know

1320
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:57,640
what it is, who knows?
But you know, to do things like

1321
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:00,480
that that are that ambitious,
you obviously have to have a

1322
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:03,880
buyer.
And indeed, and you know, well

1323
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:09,200
what happened was after COVID
for motors of course needed sure

1324
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:12,600
thing, yeah, kind of things to
put out there.

1325
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,040
They weren't in the money losing
mood.

1326
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:18,480
They weren't in the money losing
mood so hologram hologram

1327
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:21,040
attraction was not appealing to
them.

1328
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:23,560
Yeah, yeah, I think it's coming
though.

1329
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:29,480
Like, to me, the ABBA thing is a
is a big deal and the length of

1330
01:20:29,480 --> 01:20:33,560
run that it's had already and it
isn't showing any slowing down

1331
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:40,040
here to see more of that I think
is going to be it's going to

1332
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:41,160
happen.
Like you're going to see a

1333
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,240
Beatles show at some point.
You're going to see, you know,

1334
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,640
Led Zeppelin show at some point,
a Stones show at some point.

1335
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:52,240
Because, you know, these bands
have, have fans that go for

1336
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:55,800
decades and decades and decades
and, you know, like go to a

1337
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:59,840
Stones or a Pink Floyd show back
in the day at least, and you'd

1338
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:03,080
see, I, I remember, I, I saw
Pink Floyd.

1339
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:06,440
I don't remember 90 something,
94 maybe?

1340
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:10,080
In that was the division belt
tour that like we stagecraft

1341
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:12,120
built it.
It was, yeah.

1342
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,080
With Brickman.
Yeah, Mark and Mark.

1343
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:19,240
Actually, I brought Mark on to
do one of our hologram tours.

1344
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,000
He he was a lighting designer.
Yeah, I.

1345
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,320
Love Mark.
Mark is Mark is a mad genius,

1346
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:27,840
but he's got such a big heart
and he's such a good guy and.

1347
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:31,720
Mad Genius is a good good
exploit.

1348
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:32,160
He.
Is a.

1349
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,720
Mad genius description.
Yeah, I mean, you know, he's,

1350
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,840
he's perfect in that role.
You know, that's exactly what he

1351
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:41,640
is.
And if you don't give him room

1352
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:45,200
to be a mad genius, he's not
going to deliver well and he's

1353
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,240
going to be very grumpy and he's
going to be a bad fit for

1354
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:49,400
whatever you're putting him
into.

1355
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,920
So if you've got a a vanilla
box, don't put Mark Brickman in

1356
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:54,240
it.
You know he's.

1357
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,480
Not going to agree he's.
Going to drive you nuts, but if

1358
01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:02,240
you've got a a box of all kinds
of different colors and styles

1359
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,840
and tell you what, here's the
budget, stick within that and do

1360
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,240
whatever you want.
That guy's going to create

1361
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,800
something in we.
When we did the holograms, we

1362
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:16,960
actually I was able to bring on
some really prominent designers,

1363
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:23,440
brought Mark in to do Morea
Callus and then a a 40 some odd

1364
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:26,480
year friend.
We were the last two people

1365
01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:29,400
hired on Boston.
Leroy Bennett.

1366
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:32,440
I I brought him on to do with
you.

1367
01:22:32,440 --> 01:22:32,800
Wow.
Yeah.

1368
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,640
And.
You must have some budgets if

1369
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:38,480
you're bringing in Brickman and
Roy Bennett.

1370
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:40,680
Yeah.
We, we, yeah, we did.

1371
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,480
At the time we were, it was a
start up.

1372
01:22:42,480 --> 01:22:45,720
No, no, we did at the time and
that was all.

1373
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:47,960
Then then your budgets went down
a little.

1374
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happened.
But Roy, Roy and I, you know,

1375
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:55,480
Roy was a Rhode Islander as
well, so.

1376
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,400
Yeah.
Funny story, he worked, my uncle

1377
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:03,720
was a security guard in the mall
and Roy worked in a clothing

1378
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:07,800
store early in his career.
And my uncle said, hey, there's

1379
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,040
this guy with purple hair, you
need to meet him.

1380
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:14,040
And I thought, this is when I
this was even before Boston.

1381
01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:19,320
Yeah.
So it was 77 maybe, and I said,

1382
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,920
oh, there's someday.
And I never met him till here we

1383
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:27,520
are in rehearsals for Boston and
here comes his purple hair

1384
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:29,320
lighting tech.
And that's where I've been.

1385
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:31,960
Really.
Yeah, 1978.

1386
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:33,120
Same.
Tour with you, Yeah.

1387
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:34,280
Yeah, it's wild.
Yeah.

1388
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:35,920
And was that his first tour as
well?

1389
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,240
I possibly, possibly, yeah, I
believe so.

1390
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,800
Yeah, we were the we were the
last two guys hiring, I think.

1391
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:46,120
Wow.
He was hired by Polical Lighting

1392
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,080
and I was part of the rigging
crew, so.

1393
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,440
He's certainly gone on to do
some things.

1394
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,600
He continues to he's.
A beautiful career designer.

1395
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,160
Yeah.
Brilliant, Brilliant, brilliant.

1396
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:58,280
Designer and quite a fashionista
now too.

1397
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:00,640
Yes, he is.
Yeah, always has been.

1398
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:04,440
Yeah, yeah, he's, he's got some
interesting fashion for sure.

1399
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:06,720
Yeah, but yeah.
But nice guy.

1400
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:10,800
Yes, he is.
So what else was I going to ask

1401
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:12,120
you?
I just had something all lined

1402
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:14,680
up to ask you and I forgot oh,
what I was saying about Pink

1403
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,120
Floyd earlier.
The division bell thing is I

1404
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:23,480
remember where my seats were the
and there were a group of four

1405
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:28,360
kids, like probably 1718 years
old in front of me. 2 girls, 2

1406
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:31,160
guys probably on date night or
something, I don't know.

1407
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:36,080
And they knew the words to every
single song blew my mind.

1408
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,000
It blew my mind.
I was like, these songs are from

1409
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:42,200
probably before your parents
were born, let alone you, you

1410
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:47,160
know, And that is wild It, it
just was amazing to me and I

1411
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:49,680
loved it.
So that's why I think the whole

1412
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:53,360
hologram thing or whatever
technology replaces it at some

1413
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,360
point.
But I think we're going to see

1414
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:58,040
Kiss go on forever.
I think we're going to see the

1415
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:01,280
Stones or Led Zeppelin or The
Beatles go on forever.

1416
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,560
Like there's going to be a load
of these acts that people just

1417
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:09,120
don't let disappear, you know,
and, and sort of two-dimensional

1418
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,280
movies don't do them justice.
You know, you need it to be more

1419
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:15,520
3 dimensional and more of a like
the ABBA thing, you know?

1420
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,320
So I think there's going to be
some real breakthrough

1421
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:21,240
technology in that world at some
point.

1422
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:26,840
I couldn't agree more.
I certainly enjoyed my three

1423
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,240
years of trying to get it up and
going.

1424
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:31,240
Startups.
Are hard.

1425
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:35,800
Startups are hard, and I give a
lot of credit to those that that

1426
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:38,680
put their tail out on out there
to get bits I'm.

1427
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,240
On like my 6th one right now.
And.

1428
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:45,560
I've, I've just launched it and
you know, you're, you're just

1429
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:50,320
biting your lip every day
hoping, you know, that you, you

1430
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,920
run out of excuses before you
run out of money, you know?

1431
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:56,240
Or run out.
Of run out of, you know,

1432
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:58,520
naysayers or whatever before you
run out of money.

1433
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,320
And fortunately, the one that
we've just launched, it's, it's

1434
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:04,960
AI and it's, it's exactly what
the industry needs.

1435
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,080
It's, it's built.
I'm not doing a pitch here.

1436
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:09,680
I'm just explaining to you what
it is, but it's called gear

1437
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:14,280
share and it's built around the
lack of available inventory in

1438
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:18,680
our industry.
That's not a, a new problem, but

1439
01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:21,680
basically, instead of having to
sit there and go, hey, John, you

1440
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,680
got any of these?
Hey, Bob, I need a hundred of

1441
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,200
these.
Hey, you know, I need this, I

1442
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:28,040
need this, I need this instead
of all of that.

1443
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:31,120
Basically on one side we have
people uploading a huge amount

1444
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:35,280
of inventory from all over the
world into this platform, and

1445
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:37,440
it's always searchable and
discoverable.

1446
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,680
And then anywhere on Earth,
someone can just type in that.

1447
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:48,560
I need, you know, 400X moving
lights for these dates in this

1448
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,960
general vicinity.
And it'll tell you what's

1449
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:52,280
available everywhere in the
world.

1450
01:26:52,440 --> 01:26:57,720
And it's connecting inventories
from wherever, from whatever

1451
01:26:57,720 --> 01:26:59,840
rental software.
It's completely software

1452
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,760
agnostic.
It's actually not, you know,

1453
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,920
patting my own back.
It's something that the industry

1454
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:11,760
has needed for 20 years and it's
just the technology wasn't good

1455
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:16,560
enough to to make it seamless
and, and without friction and

1456
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:18,480
simple to use and all of that
stuff.

1457
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:22,080
And so, so yeah, we're, we're
pretty proud of it.

1458
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:23,880
But you know, again, it's, it's
hard.

1459
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:28,720
Like my budget was this and it
ended up costing about this, you

1460
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:32,840
know, And so there's that pain
and and it was supposed to

1461
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,880
launch in this period of time
and it took this period of time

1462
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:39,400
to launch.
And so, yeah, stress of startups

1463
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,040
and I keep doing it and I'm too
old to be doing startups at this

1464
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:44,360
point.
So somebody needs to smack me in

1465
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:48,640
the head and smart me up.
Well, we we did a restaurant

1466
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,280
startup, and that's restaurant
entertainment startup.

1467
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:56,280
I'm looking for someone to smack
me in the head.

1468
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,440
Yeah, so the restaurant, is this
the 250 seat venue as well?

1469
01:28:00,440 --> 01:28:01,160
It's a.
Restaurant.

1470
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,280
Yeah, it's kind of the
restaurants connected to the

1471
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:05,880
200.
So you, you could do dinner, not

1472
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:08,840
dinner on a show together, but
you can come into the restaurant

1473
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:13,200
and and the nice part is, is
that the entertainment component

1474
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:17,840
fills the restaurant.
So we we have quite a healthy

1475
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:20,680
service on the nights that we
have shows.

1476
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:23,840
On the nights that we don't have
shows, we're a highly regarded

1477
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,040
restaurant, but we're in a
marketplace that's we kind of

1478
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:32,320
overbuilt for I would say.
But if we can, if, if we can get

1479
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:37,480
to that Delta, like you said,
the run out, don't run out of

1480
01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:39,360
excuses before you run out of
money.

1481
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:42,240
It will get over the hump.
Yeah.

1482
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:46,280
And you know what, like I think
in a situation like that, like

1483
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:49,920
one of the things I loved about
the and I don't even know if

1484
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:52,400
they still do it, but the House
of Blues, I know they used to do

1485
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:57,040
the Sunday Blues brunch and or
gospel brunch.

1486
01:28:57,200 --> 01:29:00,360
It was called the Sunday Gospel
Brunch, and I don't know if

1487
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:02,080
you've ever done it, but it's
amazing, like.

1488
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:04,040
We did one the food.
'S good.

1489
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:06,880
And the.
And the the Bloody Marys are

1490
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:08,120
amazing.
Really good.

1491
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,920
And the gospel acts that they
get in there are just

1492
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:15,920
tremendously good.
And guess what?

1493
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:19,920
You're filling a place on a
Sunday when you know you had no

1494
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:22,320
shot at doing that in the past,
perhaps, right?

1495
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:23,920
So just.
Weird.

1496
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,640
Yeah, we did it.
We did an old school R&B brunch

1497
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:29,920
and we did a gospel brunch and
we every now and then throw them

1498
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:32,760
into special events because as I
said, the market, we're right

1499
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:38,440
down in between Reno and Tahoe.
And in the summer everybody goes

1500
01:29:38,440 --> 01:29:42,200
to Tahoe.
So the Reno, Carson City market,

1501
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,680
slow down.
Yeah, maybe some transient

1502
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:46,920
stuff, but.
Yeah.

1503
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:50,680
We're still learning.
Three years figuring it out.

1504
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,080
And what about also like
corporate to get corporate

1505
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:56,680
events in there where they've
got keynote speakers and stuff

1506
01:29:56,680 --> 01:30:00,240
like?
That Yep wait our 250 seat venue

1507
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:03,160
is perfect for that.
It's got full audio visual

1508
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:08,000
support with large screen stuff
and multiple televisions and.

1509
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:12,320
So create a package with like a
a couple of local hotels or

1510
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:13,800
something.
And where exactly?

1511
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:16,360
You put a package together and
then just start marketing it out

1512
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:19,840
to every company out there
saying, you know, beautiful

1513
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:23,560
destination venue, half hour
from the airport, blah blah

1514
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,920
blah. 60% cheaper than doing it
in Vegas or Reno.

1515
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:30,440
Sure.
You know, like that kind of

1516
01:30:30,440 --> 01:30:32,200
thing might work.
Exactly.

1517
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:33,960
You got your marketing chops
going then.

1518
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:37,360
I, it's, I can't help it.
Like people come to me with

1519
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,960
business problems and instantly
I throw 20 ideas at them and

1520
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:42,120
they're like, I never thought of
that.

1521
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,600
I never thought of that one.
I never thought of that one, you

1522
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:45,400
know.
It's a great mind.

1523
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:46,960
It's.
Just how my brain works.

1524
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:51,000
When you try to do them all
yourself, though, tackle them

1525
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:56,160
all on your own, it becomes a
miserable life, you know,

1526
01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:59,320
because you're just endlessly
thinking and building and

1527
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,320
creating and La, La, la, you
never get to actually just sit

1528
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:06,480
back and spend the the fruits
that that it's bringing you.

1529
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:07,600
Yeah.
So.

1530
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:12,640
Well, did I miss anything?
Have we missed?

1531
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:18,640
No, I think that's I kind of
touched on 47 years of all kinds

1532
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:21,720
of things and I think.
You've done more than the

1533
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:25,240
average production manager,
stage manager, tour manager.

1534
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:31,280
I think the business what what
what I like to think about is

1535
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:38,360
the fact that I was fortunate to
be in family business, nowhere

1536
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:41,760
to nowhere to keep an eye on
costs.

1537
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:44,920
And that kind of thing is made
me somewhat valuable to an

1538
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:48,800
artist, especially an artist
that's, you know, on the tail

1539
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:51,840
end of their career where, you
know, the paydays aren't as what

1540
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:53,960
they used to be.
The cost of touring is where it

1541
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:57,360
is.
So the ability to manage, you

1542
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:02,080
know, be fiscally responsible
and not just hey, we need

1543
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:06,200
another truck or we need another
this or we need another guy or

1544
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:10,680
another person on tour.
You just start getting so that

1545
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:12,760
that fiscal responsibility, I
think yeah, I.

1546
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:16,120
Mean, I think the production
managers and tour managers who

1547
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:20,320
have business minds are, are
extremely crucial to this

1548
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:23,480
industry right now.
Speaking of that, like, you

1549
01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:26,400
know, there's all kinds of
problems to the sustainability

1550
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,360
of this industry as a whole, you
know, and we keep figuring it

1551
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,280
out along the way.
So I'm not this isn't a doomsday

1552
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,240
speech or anything, but like
even one of the things I

1553
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:37,880
mentioned in the intro, which
you won't hear until you go back

1554
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:40,920
to listen to this.
But in the intro, I mentioned

1555
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:43,760
the Charlie Kirk thing, not
because of any kind of politics

1556
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:46,320
or anything, because I don't
give a damn what side anybody's

1557
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:49,120
on.
But as it relates to our

1558
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:52,200
industry, Are we going to start
seeing, you know, Keith Urban

1559
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:57,560
playing behind a, you know,
plexiglass box, you know, or,

1560
01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:01,200
or, you know, Taylor Swift
walking with a Dome over her,

1561
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,720
you know, as she goes out the
ramps and stuff?

1562
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:07,200
Or, you know, like, are we going
to need to start really worrying

1563
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:10,920
about protecting artists,
especially artists like a Kid

1564
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:15,680
Rock who have taken a side.
Yeah, or a Beyoncé who maybe has

1565
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:19,120
taken the other side and then
getting crazy, these crazy

1566
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:22,800
people with guns who who decide
I don't like your views and

1567
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:28,000
therefore I'm going to become a
martyr and and shoot you and or

1568
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:31,000
a hero to my crowd and shoot
you.

1569
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:35,760
So you know, again, I'm not
trying to be dark, but it's one

1570
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:36,800
of the thoughts that
immediately.

1571
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:38,360
No, I don't think it's dark at
all.

1572
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:44,600
I think it's practical.
I mean a few years ago Peters

1573
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:49,440
management company who have a
big roster of artists did this

1574
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:54,960
phone in seminar for all the
tour and production managers and

1575
01:33:54,960 --> 01:34:02,040
they had some security high kind
of high-ranking security people

1576
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:07,320
that were consultants to special
events and political events and

1577
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:10,880
all that.
And this was right after there's

1578
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:14,800
a young that, that explosion
with Ariana, I think it was.

1579
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:21,880
So there was maybe 200 people on
the on the call listening to

1580
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:24,400
this.
And the kind of things that we

1581
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:28,560
were made aware of that we took
for granted, for instance, LED

1582
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:34,000
in a meet and greet, allowing
people to carry Sharpies into

1583
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:37,840
the meet and greet their own
Sharpie pets because it was

1584
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,640
discovered that they were taking
the felt out and putting razor

1585
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,800
blades in the sharpies.
Jesus, never.

1586
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:51,080
I don't have a I'm a pretty
aware of my surroundings guy

1587
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:55,320
taught my kids.
Never thought of that one.

1588
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:01,080
I have a little bit of a
background in martial arts that

1589
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:05,000
I that I don't practice the way
I used to.

1590
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:08,480
So it makes me a little bit more
conscious of my surroundings.

1591
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:13,200
But what we learned was in a
case where someone wants to get

1592
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:16,480
to somebody in a, in a public
assembly, they're going.

1593
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:22,000
So all your role becomes at that
point is to minimize, not not

1594
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:25,240
prevent.
I had a guy on my podcast at one

1595
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:28,000
time, British guy, and I can't
remember his name right now, but

1596
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,640
he was a safety expert.
That was a consultant hired by

1597
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:37,080
whether it was tours or public
events or companies or whatever

1598
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:43,000
based on show security, you
know, and he started hitting me

1599
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:46,640
with some potential hazards and
I was just blown away.

1600
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:48,960
Like it made me never want to go
to a show again.

1601
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:50,280
You know, I was like I.
Don't want to be in?

1602
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,560
A crowd, you know?
Hell no when you're telling me

1603
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:54,280
all that stuff.
I don't want to be in a crowd.

1604
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:56,400
And yeah, it's just stuff that
you didn't.

1605
01:35:56,400 --> 01:36:00,200
Think of, you know, like crazy
stuff and you can't get rid of

1606
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:02,960
it by just getting rid of guns
or by just getting rid of, you

1607
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:05,360
know, missile launchers or by
just getting rid of.

1608
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:10,040
Because like I remember right
after 911, I was in London when

1609
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:14,880
it happened and I was getting on
a plane and they gave us in

1610
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,640
first class 'cause I got
upgraded, they gave us plastic

1611
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:22,040
Ware on the plane, which they
continued to do in first class

1612
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:24,960
for a long time.
I think they now use metal if I

1613
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:29,000
remember correctly.
But I remember just thinking how

1614
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:33,080
stupid it was, and I said it to
the guy next to me and he said,

1615
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:34,680
well, why?
They're just trying to keep you

1616
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:37,360
from killing people.
And I said I have a black

1617
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:40,040
American Express card in my
wallet right now.

1618
01:36:40,440 --> 01:36:43,840
That'll slice somebody.
Sharpen the edge and it'd be

1619
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,440
worse than a box cutter, because
on a box cutter you'll break the

1620
01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:49,120
blade.
On a titanium American Express

1621
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:50,720
card, you're not going to break
it.

1622
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:54,800
And so I could slice him and him
and him and him and him, and the

1623
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,240
blade's still good and it's
still sharp and everything's

1624
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:01,160
good, right?
So like we, we make people take

1625
01:37:01,160 --> 01:37:05,000
off their shoes for years, but
other things will always get by.

1626
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:08,040
Like we'll for bad people always
find a way.

1627
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:11,080
Absolutely.
And that that was essentially

1628
01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:16,640
the, the whole moral of
awareness is, is minimizing.

1629
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:19,880
You could take all these
precautions which you should

1630
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:25,680
shouldn't let your guard down.
But you're, you know, they used

1631
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:27,960
an example.
You remember when President

1632
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:38,080
Reagan was shot was that 198182
the, the civil service officers

1633
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:45,000
immediately raised their guns
and were, you know, kind of

1634
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:49,680
looking at their surroundings.
It's been determined now that

1635
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:54,240
the last thing you do is take
out anything that makes you a

1636
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:59,240
visible target in a in a large
crowd like that, all of a sudden

1637
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:02,600
you pull your guns and you're
protecting one person, and now

1638
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:04,160
you've become a target because
you're.

1639
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:05,160
Getting.
Shot.

1640
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:08,400
You're getting shot at, so it
was just an interesting concept

1641
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:14,080
as to what steps are taken to
minimize stuff as opposed to

1642
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,200
prevent.
Because you're not you, it's

1643
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:20,640
unlikely you will.
He's successful at 100%

1644
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:23,080
preventing.
Yeah, well, I was just again

1645
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:25,000
thinking about the Charlie Kirk
thing.

1646
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:28,480
And what what made me think
about it is I saw a couple days

1647
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:34,560
later Trump doing a speech and
he had a a flexi bulletproof

1648
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:37,080
plexi or whatever it is, box
around him.

1649
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:42,560
And that's OK when you got a
president or somebody up doing a

1650
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:45,200
speech or a Pope or somebody
like that who really is a

1651
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:49,720
massive target.
But what about Keith Urban or

1652
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:54,720
what about Beyoncé or what about
whoever, you know, is that our

1653
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:56,520
future?
Like, are we going to get to a

1654
01:38:56,520 --> 01:39:03,280
point where, you know, any high
profile person is no longer able

1655
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:07,320
to drive down the road in a car
with regular windows anymore or

1656
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:09,680
be on a stage without some sort
of protection?

1657
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:12,440
And what does that look like?
How do you get lights, you know,

1658
01:39:12,440 --> 01:39:15,680
doing a look on a stage when
there's all this plexi and stuff

1659
01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:18,400
like, I don't know why my mind
went there, but it did.

1660
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:21,560
Yeah, I get it.
And but take take a stadium show

1661
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:26,080
like like Taylor Swift's The
Sphere, another one.

1662
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:32,680
Your ability to see the artist
close up and personal is is

1663
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:36,840
diminishing.
I mean, and Taylor Swift's show,

1664
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:39,880
I did not go to it.
I had some of my nieces went to

1665
01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:43,880
it, said yeah, you could barely
see her with all the flash and

1666
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:47,680
trash going on.
It's if without the big screen.

1667
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:51,160
So why not?
Why not teleport her?

1668
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:53,480
Why not put her in a safe
environment?

1669
01:39:53,480 --> 01:39:56,720
Teleport her on big screens.
What's you know?

1670
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:03,040
Yeah, or, or just even.
Play video you know have

1671
01:40:03,040 --> 01:40:05,160
incredible.
Essentially, screens have

1672
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:08,000
incredible.
Video, just like EDM festivals,

1673
01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:11,200
you know what I mean?
Like does an EDM festival at

1674
01:40:11,200 --> 01:40:15,320
some point know whether Tiesto's
on the stage or somewhere

1675
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:18,520
sitting in a bus, you know, not
far from here or whatever?

1676
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,240
Like I just, I think we're going
to see more and we're going to

1677
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:24,360
see remote artists, you know, is
probably where it's going to end

1678
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:27,280
up.
And the show will be for people

1679
01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:30,080
who want to be together
celebrating that artist.

1680
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:31,880
But the artist isn't actually
there.

1681
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:35,120
The artist is piped in live, but
they're not actually there live.

1682
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:36,720
So maybe that's where it's
going.

1683
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:37,960
I don't know.
I don't know.

1684
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:41,000
I'm not the audience,
fortunately, I'm not the, I'm

1685
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:44,080
not the customer.
I'm not the target customer for

1686
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:46,080
that product.
So yeah, no am I?

1687
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:48,800
Yeah.
So when, when does when do you

1688
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:54,960
go back out with Peter?
We have a private in Los Angeles

1689
01:40:55,000 --> 01:41:03,560
next week with The Who Doobie
Brothers, John Fogerty, Chief

1690
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:05,480
Trick and Def Leppard.
It's a.

1691
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:07,960
White guy's birthday party.
It's a.

1692
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:11,600
It's a.
It's not a birthday party, it's

1693
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:14,160
a fundraiser for teen mental
health awareness.

1694
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:17,000
It's a great 'cause that's very
good cause, yeah, but a similar

1695
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:19,720
it's somebody's backyard,
basically a big giant backyard.

1696
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:21,440
Although that they're raising
money as opposed.

1697
01:41:21,440 --> 01:41:24,920
To and then we we silicon.
Valley billionaires or

1698
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:25,680
something?
Yeah.

1699
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:33,360
And then we do a nine dates
beginning October 17th starting

1700
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:34,840
in New Orleans.
Oh cool.

1701
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:35,480
Fun.
Yeah.

1702
01:41:35,480 --> 01:41:38,640
So.
So yeah, nine dates before the

1703
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:40,080
holidays.
Fun.

1704
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:42,960
Yeah, keeps him out there.
Yeah, good.

1705
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:44,840
Well, you enjoy it and I I look
forward to.

1706
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:46,680
Meeting you, Marcel.
Yeah.

1707
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:49,680
I look forward to it.
So that's what December 6th is

1708
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:51,920
that it is.
Is that our targeted date?

1709
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:53,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Great.

1710
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:57,960
The geezer dining with dining
with dinosaurs, you know.

1711
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:01,840
It's funny because when we came
up with it, it, it was a concern

1712
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:05,680
for me that people were going to
be offended to be called

1713
01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:09,560
dinosaurs, but even the women we
call dinosaurs.

1714
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:12,600
So I was like, OK, we got away
with it with a few men, but now

1715
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:16,200
I'm going to invite Patty
Thurston to come or, you know,

1716
01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:19,000
whoever to come.
And we were saying, hey, I want

1717
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:21,560
you to be a dinosaur at this
thing called Dining with

1718
01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:23,320
Dinosaurs.
And they loved it.

1719
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:26,760
Everyone laughed and thought it
was great and, and just loved

1720
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:29,200
the whole concept and stuff.
And again, it's transferring

1721
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:35,000
knowledge and information and
ideas from us to, to, you know,

1722
01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:37,560
these new people who were
handing, handing the torches to.

1723
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,760
Yeah.
And it's so important so.

1724
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:42,600
Well, I'm thrilled to be a part
of it.

1725
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:44,960
And Scott DeVos, who is our
common.

1726
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:49,040
Yeah, yeah, I think Scott, Scott
connected me and perfect.

1727
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:51,360
Well, we look forward to it.
All right.

1728
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:52,880
Thanks again and thanks for
doing this too.

1729
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:55,760
Thanks and we'll see you soon
all.

1730
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:56,360
Right, John.