#322 - Chance Stahlhut - Navigating the Future of Live Events

1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,520
I think in any good
organization, you know, your CEO

2
00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,040
is leading that vision and it
says this is what's important to

3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,960
me and this is a culture and
this is the direction I want to

4
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,280
go.
And in my position and anybody

5
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,240
else in the C-Suite, our job is
to kind of go execute that.

6
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,720
And then there's things that
we're working on.

7
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,840
You know, they did this roll up
in the concert stuff and it's

8
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,720
been a little over a year, but
we kind of rolled all this in

9
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,920
and, you know, they started the
board and, and took all these

10
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,640
companies and brought them in
and we started some acquisition.

11
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,920
So a lot of the stuff that we're
doing is all the back end stuff

12
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,240
that I know anyway.
Like that was the thing of like,

13
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,800
you know, all right, well, you
know, some of these things

14
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,320
coming from other companies.
So like, you know, we're going

15
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,920
to go work on IT.
We're going to go work on HR

16
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,600
payroll, how we do contracting,
insurance.

17
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,440
These are not things that like,
you know, we don't need to waste

18
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,560
the time in a meeting to sit
there and be like, well, what,

19
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:51,840
how, what do you want to do
here?

20
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,600
That's the role of it.
And I think then, you know, we

21
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,560
try to all strategically look at
future opportunities.

22
00:01:27,470 --> 00:01:31,550
Hey, welcome and thanks for
joining me here again on Geez of

23
00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:35,520
Gear.
So today first I want to talk

24
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,080
about a couple deals that have
just been done in our industry.

25
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,120
And so first and foremost, the
deal that has lingered for more

26
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,160
than a year now.
I actually remember at one point

27
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,800
last year, you know, people
saying that it's got to get done

28
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:56,360
by June 1st.
And if it doesn't, you know,

29
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,320
then it's going into bankruptcy
and all kinds of crazy things

30
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,480
like that.
And here we are a year later in

31
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:08,600
August of 2025 and the four wall
deal has just been announced.

32
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,880
And I'm not sure the real
details of the deal.

33
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,800
You know, it put some sketchy
details in the press release, or

34
00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,760
I should say limited details in
the press release, making it a

35
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,560
point that they are keeping
their management team in place,

36
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,720
which is a good thing, I guess
for the, you know, stability of

37
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,920
the company to keep people
happy, to keep people feeling

38
00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:34,440
motivated or whatever, the staff
especially.

39
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,600
So that's a good thing.
And but they didn't mention much

40
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,840
about, you know, sort of the
structure of the deal.

41
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,080
And I guess the devil's in the
details, but looks like a debt

42
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:52,960
deal, you know, I'm sure, you
know, they're not buying it to

43
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,920
hold it forever.
So it looks to me like some sort

44
00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:57,840
of a turn around deal where
they're coming in and they're

45
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,360
going to improve EBITDA and
improve the numbers and improve

46
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,360
the books and then flip it for
more money in another year or

47
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,920
two.
That would be my guess anyways,

48
00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:08,680
but I'm just speculating at this
point.

49
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,280
So I don't have any inside
information on that or anything.

50
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,680
So congratulations to Four Wall
and the team at 4 Wall and their

51
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,760
customers and especially their
vendors who now have, I think

52
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,960
some stability and and feeling,
you know better about, you know,

53
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,560
making big deals with four wall
and getting paid and stuff.

54
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,760
So great news and I think it's
great for the industry.

55
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,360
You don't want that sort of
unknown or instability in in an

56
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,880
industry like ours, especially
from one of the largest

57
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,600
companies out there and in news
just this morning.

58
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,240
So by the time you hear this,
it'll be old news, but Claire

59
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,320
Brothers or Claire Global are
continuing to make moves and

60
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,680
they have purchased friends of
ours Clearwing.

61
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,560
And so congratulations to Greg
Brunclick and family who have

62
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,560
made this deal with Claire.
Congratulations to Claire for

63
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,320
getting a great company with,
with a great attitude, great

64
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:10,320
gear, great history.
I think from 1976, if I remember

65
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,400
correctly, you can hear Greg
Brunclick talking about that

66
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,279
stuff on 2 episodes of Gears of
Gear in the past.

67
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,760
So again, congratulations to
both teams on a an excellent

68
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,240
deal, great company etcetera.
And I think Claire Global is

69
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,120
also a great company with
obviously a pretty big war chest

70
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,520
of, of acquisition funds in
play.

71
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,200
And so we're going to see I'm
sure more deals from them in the

72
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,840
future.
So that's good news.

73
00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:44,000
I wanted to jump into AAI just
for a second here and talk a

74
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,200
little bit about AI.
As you know, I'm building a

75
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,480
business around AI.
We have got huge experience in

76
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,080
it.
Now I know more about AI than I

77
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,640
think most people do in our
industry.

78
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,480
And I'm not bragging.
It's something that I've been

79
00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,520
passionate about for the last
couple of years.

80
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,280
And now I'm head first into it,
spending literally hundreds of

81
00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,800
thousands of dollars building
product in AI.

82
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,160
And so I've learned a lot and
I'm really looking forward to

83
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,120
launching this product in a, in
a little over a month, actually

84
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,520
right at about a month.
Now, September 2nd is sort of a

85
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,360
soft launch, but it is a launch,
it'll be a live launch on

86
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,480
September 2nd.
And so, yeah, I'm, I'm looking

87
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,840
forward to that, looking forward
to showing everyone what we've

88
00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:30,400
built.
And we've got some deals on

89
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,000
right now for signing up early.
We have signed on some clients

90
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:39,000
into a product that doesn't
exist yet, which is great, but

91
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,360
I'm happy to kind of show you up
our skirt if it's something that

92
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,240
you'd be interested in.
So get involved early.

93
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,560
We are showing some deep love to
to the people getting in early.

94
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,520
And so one of the things I've
been hearing a lot more about is

95
00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,960
how close we're getting to this
self improving AGI, artificial

96
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,760
general intelligence or super
intelligence even, which I think

97
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,360
is still a few years out.
But basically we're talking

98
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,040
about AI that that develops or
grows itself, that codes itself,

99
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,200
you know, AI that is, is
teaching itself how to grow.

100
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,320
And so how can you protect
yourself or your business

101
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,760
against AI that's development
developing itself now and

102
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,880
getting smarter on its own and
it doesn't really need us in the

103
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,440
future.
And so one thing, a few things

104
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,440
and some of these I'm copying
from things that I've heard

105
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,600
recently, but some of it's just
my own feelings.

106
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,000
But first of all, get real close
to AI.

107
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,920
Get friendly with AI instead of,
you know, sort of pushing it

108
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,800
away like it doesn't exist or
like it won't be a problem or

109
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,320
like it's not going to be a part
of your life.

110
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,680
Get close to it.
Don't be afraid of it, but

111
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,080
partner with it, become deeply
involved with AI, understand it,

112
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,600
accept it, touch it, feel it and
play with it as much as you

113
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,520
possibly can.
And yes, I'm talking about AI

114
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,080
here.
And so yeah, just really, you

115
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,080
know, don't be afraid of it, be
friendly with it and and become

116
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,840
very knowledgeable on AI.
It's, you know, even if you hate

117
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,080
it, you know how your parents
always taught you when, when you

118
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,960
were a kid, What is it?
Get close to your friends, but

119
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,480
get closer to your enemies or
something along those lines.

120
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,960
Secondly, personal
relationships.

121
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,880
We know this in our industry.
So personal networks, personal

122
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,160
relationships, company
relationships and networks, not

123
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,040
just texting, not just sending
AI written emails and stuff like

124
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,520
that, which I happen to hate.
I, I am disgusted by the number

125
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,360
of AI emails even from, you
know, people who either want a

126
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,520
job with me or are communicating
with me as employees and they

127
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,360
want to raise or they want
something and, and they're

128
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,600
sending me these AI written
emails.

129
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,120
I despise them.
I'd rather typos and, and, you

130
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,160
know, bad grammar and everything
else in an e-mail than to see

131
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,160
something that's obviously
written by AI.

132
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,520
But personal relationships, you
know, I talked to people in the

133
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,360
touring business about this all
the time.

134
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,280
You know, we've built careers on
our relationships.

135
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,920
We've built careers on our
networks.

136
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,520
Certainly I've built a podcast
here on a network and on

137
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,680
relationships.
And so, you know, that is your

138
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,600
value.
Your value is in those personal

139
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,120
relationships and those deep
connections with people, human

140
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,880
connection, not connection
through or with AI, but human

141
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,679
connection and being
compassionate, having compassion

142
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,880
for others, for other companies,
for what people are going

143
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,920
through or what businesses are
going through.

144
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,200
And you know, remember this,
it's not going to be the

145
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,840
smartest who survive or who out
think AI because AI is going to

146
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,320
be smart, smarter than all of
us.

147
00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,600
It's smarter than most of us
already today, myself included.

148
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:04,720
But very soon it's going to be,
we're talking about this year,

149
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:10,800
an IQ of over 250 with AI, which
means that it's smarter than any

150
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,240
human on Earth pretty much and
and exponentially smarter than

151
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,480
most humans, you know, at least
2X smarter than most humans.

152
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,520
So, you know, it's not the
smartest who survived, but it's

153
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,880
the people with the deepest and
best and most connections who

154
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,600
will survive AI.
And I truly believe that and

155
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,200
question everything, you know,
So that's one of the things that

156
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,600
I've seen with people who are
early stage getting into AI or

157
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,240
using ChatGPT or writing letters
with it or reading letters with

158
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,400
it or reading news articles, you
know, and it happens to me with

159
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,000
people around me who will come
to me and say, did you hear that

160
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:54,320
Elon Musk is blah or Trump did
this or Madonna did that or

161
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,160
whoever it is, some famous
person did whatever.

162
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,520
And I would say a good 5 or 6
times out of 10, it's bullshit.

163
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,720
You know it, it's just made-up
AI news.

164
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,720
You know, you see football
players being traded, you see

165
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,840
drivers being demoted from F1 or
hired on F1.

166
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,400
You see all kinds of things so
and so, suing so and so.

167
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,600
And you know, a high percentage
of this stuff, especially on

168
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,160
social media, is bullshit.
And so question everything,

169
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,800
Cress question everyone.
You know, when people come to

170
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,400
you and say, did you hear or you
know, I just read about this or

171
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,240
I know this is true.
You know, it's beyond what used

172
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,280
to be false rumors and innuendo.
Now it's actually written on

173
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,360
purpose to be false.
And it's usually clickbait.

174
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,880
It's usually a way for these
bottom feeders on social media

175
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,080
to be able to get more clicks
and to get paid for it or become

176
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,680
more famous for it or whatever.
Instagram famous.

177
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,160
So seek the truth and question
everything.

178
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:04,000
And then finally, ethics, trust,
truth is more important than

179
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,400
anything going forward.
So magnify ethics AI

180
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:15,320
understands, make AI understand
what it means to be human and

181
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,360
what it means to to be
principled, what it means to be

182
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,840
trusted and prioritize those
principles.

183
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:29,640
Prioritize ethical approaches or
ethical just a way of doing

184
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,440
business much more ethically.
Prioritize that and and make it

185
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,000
a part of your statement.
Make it a part of your actions.

186
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,720
Make it a part of your day.
So yeah, that's how you survive

187
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:47,720
AI, in my opinion.
So Two days podcast guest Chance

188
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,920
Stalhutt is the Chief Operating
Officer of Concert Stuff Group

189
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,920
where he leads a growing family
of specialized production and

190
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,880
logistics companies serving the
live entertainment industry.

191
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:06,560
With a 25 plus year career that
began in punk clubs and

192
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:11,640
international tours, Chance was
held has held senior leadership

193
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,040
roles at Claire Global, VERPRG
and Go West Creative.

194
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:22,440
His background spans touring,
engineering, sales, operations,

195
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,080
an executive strategy making him
uniquely equipped to scale

196
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,360
complex organizations while
staying grounded in hands on

197
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,880
roduction realities.
Chance is known for his people

198
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,000
first leadership style, belief
in transparent communication and

199
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,040
advocacy for long term career
growth within the industry.

200
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,840
At Concert Stuff Group, he's
focused on strengthening team

201
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,640
structures, improving
profitability without

202
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,600
sacrificing culture, and helping
leaders think more

203
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,320
strategically.
So please, welcome Chance

204
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,960
Stalhutt.
Chance, how are you?

205
00:12:58,480 --> 00:12:59,800
I'm really good.
How are you doing, Marcel?

206
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,440
You know, it's what day is it?
Wednesday.

207
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,640
Tuesday.
Tuesday, August 5th, yeah.

208
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:06,880
I don't even know what day it
is.

209
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,000
So that's how I am.
It's been like a week and a half

210
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,640
and we're only the second day in
the week so far.

211
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,760
So yeah, I'm, I'm in the process
of building a new business on

212
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,560
top of our other business.
And it's just so much learning

213
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:24,800
and so much technology and so
much new stuff that I've never

214
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,520
experienced.
Most people have never

215
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,200
experienced to be perfectly
honest, because it's all AI.

216
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,120
Yeah.
I mean, we've looked at your

217
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,680
demos and I think between just
the decks, it's changed.

218
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,200
That's how fast it's been
changed for you guys so much.

219
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,440
Like it's totally different now
again.

220
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,400
So I mean, it's, it's just crazy
like every literally every day

221
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,200
because our developers are in
Vietnam.

222
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,320
And so we usually have a meeting
at 9:00 or 10:00, my time here

223
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:56,520
in the mountains at night.
And then, you know, while I'm

224
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,200
sleeping, they're basically
completely changing everything.

225
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,160
So I never book demos for the
first thing in the morning

226
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,880
because I have no idea what's
going to blow up in my face when

227
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,080
I do it.
I don't even know what I'm going

228
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,560
to see, so I'll usually do a
couple tests in the morning if I

229
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,720
have to do a demo and just get
re acquainted with whatever it

230
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,200
is we're offering.
You know, I mean the core is the

231
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,680
same offer, of course, but it
just keeps getting better.

232
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,600
Like we're just we're learning
more, we're adding more.

233
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,040
We're, you know, just building
more into it every day.

234
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,680
So it's it's pretty fun.
It's exciting, but it's tiring.

235
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,560
Like you know, weekends are just
six and seven days of the work

236
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,840
week, so.
Well, as you've built other

237
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,920
businesses, you know, you kind
of knew the lift your head into,

238
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,520
but yeah, super looking forward
to it.

239
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,280
Yeah, yeah, I know.
It's it's fun and I appreciate

240
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,400
the support.
So, you know, I got to admit

241
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,600
you're a guy I didn't know a
huge amount about.

242
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,720
So I appreciate that you sent us
some notes that we could kind of

243
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,640
follow because sometimes I'm
like, Oh yeah, I remember back

244
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,520
when you did so and so in the
80s or whatever.

245
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,200
But I didn't know what your
background was prior to, to

246
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,440
reading the the bio that you
provided us and the notes that

247
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,360
you provided us.
So I appreciate you sending that

248
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,680
in.
We have a, our, a mutual friend

249
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,280
of ours, John Wiseman was very,
I, I mentioned talking to you

250
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,520
when we were looking at the
demos and, and John was like,

251
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,320
oh, he's like, I love Marcel.
And, and I had to go deep dive

252
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,880
and realize John's been on here
a bunch.

253
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,760
And so that kind of prompted the
whole thing.

254
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,600
Well, and one of the great
things about having someone like

255
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,720
John on is he just truly doesn't
give a shit.

256
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,680
So he is 100% transparent on
everything.

257
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,320
And we've had long talks about
addiction and long talks about,

258
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,280
you know, a A and all the things
that he's been through and

259
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,000
almost dying and, you know, and
partying.

260
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,680
We've had talks about that and,
you know, just like talk about a

261
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,960
guy with a crazy, wacky career,
you know, of, of just total

262
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,280
mayhem and like the last however
many years, I mean, 30 of

263
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,080
sobriety.
But you know, the last 10 or 15

264
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,680
years of his career have been
just totally different because

265
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,600
he's so much calmer now and he's
so much more focused and less

266
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,960
angry, you know, because for a
long time he definitely had some

267
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,800
anger in him.
So he didn't want to be a

268
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,280
competitor to John, you know, 15
years ago.

269
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,880
Today it's still hard, but it's
not as anger filled, you know?

270
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,520
Yeah, no, he, he's very, he's a,
he's a sweet guy.

271
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,040
He's been super kind to me over
all the years.

272
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,240
And I mean, even in when I've
seen him have bad days, I can't

273
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,400
say enough good things about
that guy.

274
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,480
Yeah, yeah, I love John.
He's one of my best friends, so

275
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,880
it's nice that he talks kindly
about me too.

276
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,360
I like that.
So tell me like, you know,

277
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,840
you've probably heard the
podcast before you like you know

278
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,240
that I like to sort of start at
the beginning.

279
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:51,480
So what found chance into this
wacky industry that you're a

280
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,520
part of for so long now?
This episode is brought to you

281
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,840
today by ETC Rigging.
For 50 years, ETC has made a

282
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,480
name for itself in the world of
entertainment technology.

283
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,920
You can find ETC products in
buildings of every size across

284
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,000
the entire globe.
Broadway shows, rock concerts,

285
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,960
sports stadiums, outdoor parks,
TV studios and convention

286
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,280
centers, you name it.
They have all trusted ETC to

287
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,240
make their spaces beautiful and
safe.

288
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,079
Many of these spaces include
rigging systems to keep them

289
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:30,120
running smoothly and safely.
Fortunately, ETC Rigging offers

290
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,840
a range of hoists and controls
to accommodate the unique needs

291
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,520
of various production spaces and
budgets.

292
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,000
Etcs, motorized hoists and hoist
control systems raise theatre

293
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,200
technology including stage
curtains, lighting equipment,

294
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,040
backdrops, projection screens
and more.

295
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,400
And the recent addition of
Prodigy Balance, a new

296
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:58,280
counterweight rigging solution
for loads up to 1200 lbs, brings

297
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,400
more options to venues looking
for safe, user friendly rigging.

298
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,320
If you need backstage rigging
that is easy to learn and safe

299
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,760
for students and volunteers to
use, Prodigy Balance could be

300
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,520
the answer.
ETC is known for its customer

301
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,840
support and 24/7 365
availability, but now employees

302
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,680
have even more of a personal
stake in maintaining that

303
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,280
reputation.
Because ETC has become 100%

304
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,440
employee owned, each person
building the rigging systems,

305
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,480
developing the control software
and answering support calls is

306
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,320
actually an owner at ETC.
Outstanding support, reliable

307
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,320
products, innovative
technologies.

308
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,480
This is the foundation of
excellence ETC has built over

309
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,000
the past 50 years, and they plan
to deliver more in the next 50.

310
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,000
For the latest ETC products and
installation news, visit

311
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:58,560
etcconnect.com.
You know, so I got started.

312
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,600
I grew up in Alabama and I got
started.

313
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,280
I was interested.
I went to a very large church at

314
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,440
the time and happened to kind of
notice, you know, the sound

315
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:17,080
booth and the cameras and got
involved in that area and was

316
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,840
able to kind of, you know, go
from there.

317
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,960
And I got really lucky.
You know, I think it people that

318
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,960
are successful in this industry
have multiple people across

319
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,200
different phases of your career
take you under the wings.

320
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,520
And the guy that ran that whole
division also was a professor of

321
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,560
journalism over to local
university.

322
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,680
So he used to take me over there
and I got to edit on three

323
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,520
quarter machines and I learned
in that aspect.

324
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,880
And we moved to Nashville and I
got involved in playing with a

325
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:52,000
band, and I got a job at a local
music store, Mars Music, back

326
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,320
when that was a shame.
I knew what?

327
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,080
Was that guy Begelman, Mark
Begelman?

328
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,520
I knew him well back in those
days, yeah.

329
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,160
And the Nashville 1 was like
very influential for them

330
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,440
because obviously Nashville
Music City heavy in the

331
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,480
recording industry in the 90s.
And so I got a job there to get

332
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,000
a discount on equipment and, you
know, ended up meeting a lot of

333
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,560
bands to go mix and got in the
Nashville thing.

334
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,560
And just from day one, this is
what I've always wanted to do.

335
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,000
I remember moving to Nashville
and walking up and down Music

336
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,560
Row the summer before I turned
17, like going in and asking for

337
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,080
applications at all the record
labels, like had no idea how to

338
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,920
get a job in the industry.
I was like, well, I'll just go

339
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,720
in there and apply and of course
they'll hire me.

340
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,880
And so that was, you know, you
kind of learn and I've worked

341
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,360
for a lot of companies in
Nashville and got tied into a

342
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,080
management company that didn't
realize I was as young as I was

343
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,960
and put me out on some van and
trailer CCM tours and then some

344
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,000
van and trailer like punk rock
tours.

345
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,600
And somewhere.
And that they realized I was

346
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,840
still in high school and like
summer between my junior and

347
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,000
senior year.
And, you know, I'm out tour

348
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,920
managing, driving, mixing, doing
merch, you know, for these

349
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,800
bands.
And I'm, you know, we'd hit the

350
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,600
end of the weekend and they
would have to pay me and they

351
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,440
weren't getting paid.
I was like, well, this is the

352
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,760
greatest industry ever.
Like, I should keep doing this,

353
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,960
you know, because they were on
labels.

354
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,120
So, you know, they're trying to
do it to sell albums.

355
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,560
And it kind of kept going from
there.

356
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:30,840
And I threw a series of that.
I got connected with an act that

357
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,560
was tied into Claire and I
started doing freelance work for

358
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,240
Claire, actually Roy Claire.
I remember I was sitting in a

359
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,360
bar and he called me to like
negotiate the tour rider that we

360
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:48,000
were doing for our first tour
and got tied into him and Ralph

361
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,680
Mastroangelo down in Nashville
and started doing lofts and kind

362
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,960
of went from doing staging and
roofing and lighting tours.

363
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,520
I was doing lighting tours for
PGP for Creech and Paulison was

364
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,800
like firmly an audio guy for
Ralph and was there a couple

365
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,920
years freelance and then was
there as a full time guy for

366
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,920
like 11 years.
You went through some really

367
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,760
incredible people in our
industry, you know, between

368
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:18,760
Wiseman and Creech and Claire,
obviously what a what a way to

369
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,520
come up through the industry.
Yeah, I said.

370
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,840
I think hindsight is I started
to realize that later.

371
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,160
So I'm super lucky.
And certainly there's been

372
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,480
moments of like, thank God, you
know, when I was a snotty

373
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,280
younger man that they, you know,
put up or, you know, corrected

374
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,440
me or still didn't kick me out
in the process.

375
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,160
You know, there was a company I
work for.

376
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,360
There's this guy Bobby Brantley
in Nashville.

377
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,360
Our kids go or have went to
school together now.

378
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,040
And I mean, when I work for
Bobby, I had a purple Mohawk and

379
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,440
Bobby did staging and audio.
And I remember walking into his

380
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,320
office and being like, hey man,
I don't do staging like I do

381
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,040
audio.
I'm not going to go sling decks.

382
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:01,960
And he was very cool.
He's like absolutely not a

383
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,440
problem.
And all of a sudden he's like,

384
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,280
they stopped calling and I
called up one day.

385
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,040
I said, Hey, I haven't got any
gigs from you guys.

386
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,200
And he's like, well, you don't
want to do staging.

387
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,080
And when that's what we do here
is we do both.

388
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,120
Now, if you want to change that
opinion, more than happy to have

389
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,720
you back.
It was very kind of like, all

390
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,520
right, like I, I kind of came in
at 18 telling you how to do it.

391
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,080
You know, you could have thought
completely gone a different.

392
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,040
Direction.
Yeah, I got really lucky.

393
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,280
Yeah.
You know, so you kind of got

394
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,040
into the industry sort of a
little bit at the tail end of

395
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:42,080
the original people, you know,
like, but they were still pretty

396
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,000
rough, right.
Like it, it was still rough on a

397
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,720
young kid coming into the
industry.

398
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,360
They weren't, they didn't care
much about your feelings.

399
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,360
You know, it wasn't, it wasn't,
you know, chance.

400
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:55,520
How are you feeling today?
It was get your ass up and get

401
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,360
over there now, you know, or
you're going home.

402
00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:59,800
And I'm not buying you a plane
ticket.

403
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,080
It, it was a good, I, I think it
was a good way to come in.

404
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,440
It was, it straddled that the
part where we were shifting

405
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,680
from, you know, the industry was
still all about selling records.

406
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,400
And I was around it when we made
that transition.

407
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,960
I was around the transition of,
of, you know, his line array was

408
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,800
starting.
I mean I remember doing a

409
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:26,720
showcase and meeting Jeff Cox
who came in to mix the showcase

410
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,960
and him literally tell me about
like following V Dosk.

411
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,440
In fact, actually my first
European Tour was it with a band

412
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,640
called No, it was with an opener
and they headliners band called

413
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,520
No Angels.
It was in Germany and it was the

414
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,040
Westfallon's first run with V
Dosk and Christian came out to

415
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,720
like help them the first couple
shows because they were kind of

416
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,760
in that transitional period and
had no idea at the time that

417
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,080
like Christian Hall was out
there checking on this account,

418
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,600
checking on his thing.
So like I, I had a really nice

419
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,560
entry point, the fact that I got
the old, old part and I got the

420
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,200
new part as we transition.
And so I can kind of remember

421
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,960
how it was.
Yeah, that's, that's perfect.

422
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,040
You know, that's, that's like
the perfect time.

423
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840
Like it's like, you know, I have
a house in Canada and I have a

424
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,080
house in the US and I'm old
enough that I was in like 5th

425
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,800
grade when they were converting
to metric in Canada.

426
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,400
So I knew the standard stuff and
I learned the metric stuff and

427
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,920
how to convert the two because
you had to figure that out too.

428
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,200
And so I've never had a
challenge between metric and,

429
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,080
and imperial anything, right?
Like whether it's temperature

430
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,320
or, or, you know, weights or
whatever.

431
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:42,840
Like I've, I've always been very
good at it.

432
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,120
And people are like, why is that
so easy for you?

433
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,720
And it's well, I learned them
both in school, so.

434
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,800
Yeah, 100% and now it's a
Google.

435
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,120
It's a ChatGPT.
Yeah, exactly.

436
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,560
It's pretty easy to figure it
out now.

437
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960
But yeah, so that's a cool time
to have come in right at the

438
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,240
front end of liner.
And you got to ride that wave, I

439
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,760
guess, right?
Yeah.

440
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,560
I mean, I think it's just the
industry shift, the technology

441
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,360
shift, digital platform shift,
you know, all those different

442
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:16,200
things where you kind of you're
very fresh and OK, I know what

443
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,200
Trip Calef and an XL4 sounded
like on an S4 rig with Fleetwood

444
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,080
Mac.
And now how do you know now

445
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,800
we're going this direction?
And so your reference points and

446
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,800
everything was really good.
And then, you know, but to your

447
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,880
point, like we've gotten better,
like now we're, you know, COVID,

448
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,560
while it wrecked a lot of
things, that also helped us go,

449
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,520
OK.
You know, I remember if I was

450
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,600
going to do a tour and I needed
like one day off for a personal

451
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,800
thing in the middle of three
months, that was just no, you

452
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,080
know, and now everybody's very
accommodating to of course,

453
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,560
like, let's figure out how to
support you.

454
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,000
If there's a personal thing that
you need to do a wedding or you

455
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,840
know, I think there's a lot more
flexibility in people wanting to

456
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,000
work to try to help balance this
all out.

457
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,960
Well, it's also become a real
career, you know, like back

458
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,880
then, back then you were
gypsies.

459
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,120
You know, now it's a real
career.

460
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:09,360
Like you're making real money
and and people have families and

461
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,760
it's not the party that it was
in the 80s and 90s so much.

462
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,120
Well, and I say at the same
time, like some of this, we

463
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,960
haven't given up.
Like if you think about, we were

464
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,080
talking about this last night,
if you think about the amount of

465
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,360
stuff that is now required to be
a touring technician, Yeah.

466
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,720
Not only do you have to do all
the stuff that we used to do,

467
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,080
the travel, the the late nights,
the early mornings, you know,

468
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,240
load in a stadium in the rain,
but I need you to be an IT

469
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,080
networking specialist.
If you're a crew chief, you need

470
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,880
to be an HR manager.
So, you know, it's just we keep

471
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,800
putting more and more on them.
HR mental health, yeah, you

472
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:51,480
know, drug dependency expert,
you know, like just all kinds of

473
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,280
things like it's it's so much
more important to have those

474
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,680
multi skills and and stuff.
But so when you in the early

475
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,200
days, you were touring as a
tech, as a, as a front of house

476
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,600
engineer, monitor engineer or
all of the above.

477
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,960
I so the first, the first
account I do with Claire, I came

478
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,120
in as a, as a customer and so I
picked up some monitor gigs.

479
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,000
I was very young.
I, I picked up some tech things.

480
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,440
Ralph at the time Nashville
office did a lot of festivals.

481
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,600
There was a guy Robert
Kozlowski, who was Reba's

482
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,600
monitor forever and cause was
kind of off from her and was

483
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,720
running all these festivals and
I did a ton of them with 'cause

484
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,400
which was just super, you know,
you can be a really great

485
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,080
touring guy if you can do a
bunch of festivals.

486
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,320
Like, you know, touring is easy
after that.

487
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,920
And so, you know, I did that and
I really enjoyed the sweet spot

488
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,920
of being a crew chief system
engineer.

489
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,800
Like that was my area of that
because I like I enjoyed working

490
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,480
with, you know, representing the
company at the time, the

491
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,200
technology.
I enjoyed supporting the

492
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,080
engineers.
You know, it was, you know, it

493
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,360
was fun too.
And building good relationships.

494
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,360
I had a lot of good
relationships with guys I worked

495
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,280
with.
You know, where they would trust

496
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,440
me, I trust them.
We try to build up a really good

497
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,720
team and it was a great time to
be there and we were constantly

498
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,000
every day try to see how we
could do it better.

499
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,680
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that makes sense.

500
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,000
And especially again, like
probably when you're sort of on

501
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,200
the cutting edge of the new
technology and stuff, there's

502
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,760
probably a lot of educating
people who are coming in as as

503
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,280
crew members or whatever as
well.

504
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,040
Like, hey, I've never seen a
system like this, you know,

505
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,160
how's it work?
You know, that kind of thing.

506
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,120
And, and so, yeah, I mean, I
like, I like that.

507
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,520
I like that you were sort of on
the cutting edge of the tech.

508
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,640
And So what was harder the the
transformation to line array

509
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:50,720
from like the the point source
systems to or or the

510
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,520
transformation from analog to
digital consoles?

511
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,840
I mean, I think the you, you can
look at it both ways.

512
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,640
Like there were several tours,
like, you know, one of the last

513
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,200
prism tours I got to do was like
Alan Jackson had a prism rig.

514
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,320
Well, well into when, you know,
the I fi was very predominant.

515
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,960
You know, I was out of the
company before cohesion became a

516
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,560
thing.
And then, you know, Claire also

517
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,480
at one point put out a system
called the Vision, which was

518
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,480
kind of like Prism 2 point O.
And so I had mixed in, you know,

519
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,200
conventional into that.
I mean the biggest challenge was

520
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:31,000
is that overall just pressure
that Prism and S fours created

521
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,880
and then like the EVMT fours
where you got that low mid

522
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,160
pressure, you know, that really
created movement in the room

523
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,160
when it was done right.
That was a hard thing.

524
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,640
And some of the early days, you
know, the the clarity was there.

525
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,200
But then there were a lot of
systems that were great, like

526
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,080
the J rig on D twelves that 8th
day used to put out had some of

527
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,360
the same soft compression that
the S4 on its old CTS processors

528
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,240
did.
And, you know, you'd stand there

529
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,640
and turn something up and be
like, man, I'm a better engineer

530
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,320
than I thought I was.
Like, you know, line arrays,

531
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,800
definitely.
They either really helped you or

532
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,960
they could, you know, in the
early days could burn you

533
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,040
because it was inconsistent.
You know, this, like everybody

534
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,760
had their settings and their way
of amping it.

535
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,560
And you know, the companies have
done such a great job of

536
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,240
standardizing that and getting
it where the consistency is

537
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,240
there.
Yeah, on that, on that topic,

538
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,520
like for Someone Like You who
who really recognizes the

539
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,040
difference, because I don't
like, you know, I've always

540
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:34,040
enjoyed good sound, but I've not
been able to differentiate why I

541
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,680
like this one better than this
one necessarily.

542
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,680
You know, like I saw them, you
know, in a different venue and I

543
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,720
liked this and I didn't like it
here.

544
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:49,240
But like, you're probably able
to easily walk into a venue and

545
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520
go, oh, that's a blah, you know,
versus that's a.

546
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,240
Sad.
Sadly I'm that gear nerd.

547
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,240
Yes, so.
You can.

548
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:02,000
You can hear the difference
between a DNBGSL&A and AK-2.

549
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,320
Sure.
Jesus, See, I can't.

550
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,960
I couldn't tell looking at them
the difference because I'm a

551
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,840
lighting guy for.
The most well, but I think I

552
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,480
think some of that is like I
think both of those companies

553
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,000
have done really well and like
trying to be flat and that and

554
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,480
there's things that I've like
over, you know, you know,

555
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,760
there's things like hey, this
does this really well and I like

556
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,440
the way that sounds.
I'm a big believer, though, that

557
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,400
any you know, and like guys like
pooch have said this for years.

558
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,160
A good engineer is going to be
the is going to be good on a lot

559
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,160
of systems.
And I think until you until you

560
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,280
put your finger on a fader, you
really can't judge somebody's

561
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,560
mix because that's the only way
to know like what was happening

562
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,880
in the room that night, What was
the band doing?

563
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,760
You know, so like to your point,
while knowing the technology is

564
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,600
great, like I went to, you know,
I've go to concerts.

565
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,840
I was one a couple weeks ago and
I try to just enjoy the show.

566
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760
Like, you know, if like I don't
know what that front of house

567
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,640
guys dealing with tonight.
I don't know if the singer's

568
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,640
off, the drummer's maybe had a
fight before, you know?

569
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,680
So let's just enjoy the show.
Yeah, at least as an audio guy,

570
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,440
you're, you're sitting there
listening to the show and

571
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,320
enjoying the show and you can
hear the songs and stuff like

572
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,240
lighting people.
We're idiots.

573
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,040
We just sit there and look up at
the rig all night and you know,

574
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,160
oh, there's a fixture out.
Oh, there's this, oh, there's

575
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,440
that.
And you practically don't even

576
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,720
hear the music most of the time
because you're too busy, you

577
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,880
know, looking at things and
paying attention to exactly

578
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,280
what's going on.
And usually, like I've worked

579
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,800
for a manufacturer, so I'm
looking for failure points in

580
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,720
other people's product or I'm
looking to make sure that none

581
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,000
of my stuff is failing on a
particular show.

582
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,280
Like this is back in the day
when I worked for Martin and

583
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,120
everything failed.
Or you know, I worked for high

584
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,040
end and less stuff failed or
whatever but but like at least

585
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,440
as an audio guy you can probably
enjoy the show.

586
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Where As for lighting, we're
just always looking up, we don't

587
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,920
even know what.
I'll be honest, I don't look and

588
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,560
see like what's failed, but I,
I, that's a great point.

589
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,680
I've never caught that.
But I mean, I was at like

590
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,240
Coldplay and of course I'm
immediately like telling sooner.

591
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,680
I'm like, I'm amazed at how many
JDC's you put.

592
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,880
Like in my head, I'm looking at
how many JDC's are now hanging

593
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,560
on the mid rail around the
stadium and thinking about the

594
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,440
cabling that went to it and like
how long that take to load in

595
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,159
and what was the stage hand
count like that's working for

596
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,080
360 companies later, You know,
you start to like get into that

597
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,480
piece.
And for me it's the just I, I

598
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,120
really enjoy the immersiveness
of that.

599
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,239
But you also start to go like,
all right, that's 400 JDCS.

600
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,440
It probably rents for this.
Like, you know, what's the

601
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,639
budget?
What was the budget?

602
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,120
It's crazy.
Yeah.

603
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,960
You know, I'm, I'm, I do some
work with a confetti company who

604
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,360
provides all the confetti for
Coldplay, and the pallets of

605
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,040
confetti that they're shipping
out every couple of shows is

606
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,120
just wild.
It's wild how much confetti they

607
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,360
use in a Coldplay show.
Just unbelievable.

608
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,520
It's crazy.
It's a great show.

609
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,200
It's they, they've done an
amazing job.

610
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,360
That team has made it incredibly
super immersive.

611
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,720
Yeah, it's quite an industry
unto itself though.

612
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,400
Coldplay, like it's just wild,
you know?

613
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,880
And now they're now they're a
dating app, you know, so.

614
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,520
I think there were 220 something
shows in when I saw it.

615
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,400
Like onto this current tour.
Yeah, just insane.

616
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,880
Jesus, it is a machine.
That thing is a machine like I,

617
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,920
you know, or I hate to say it
because it makes it sound like I

618
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,480
think I'm smart and I'm not.
But when Coldplay first came

619
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,480
out, I thought these guys might
have some longevity.

620
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,480
You know, they sound a lot like
you too, but I like them better.

621
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,600
I've never been AU2 fan and but
I really liked Coldplay when

622
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,440
they first came out.
I'm a little, you know, little

623
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,040
over him at this point, but but
they're a great band and they

624
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,080
have a great sound and
everything else, and they know

625
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,080
how to write hits too, you know?
And Chris Martin's a great front

626
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,960
man.
He's, I mean, he's, he's working

627
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,600
that audience.
He's working a whole stadium.

628
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,840
Yeah, no, he's amazing.
He knows how to get you going.

629
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,200
And and I mean just again, the
whole show design and stuff too,

630
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,800
like it's it's you know, the
things that they do out over and

631
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,680
with the audience, like they
were one of the first ones, you

632
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,720
know, that got phones involved
in the shows that I remember it

633
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,720
was a shed tour like probably 20
something years ago.

634
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,800
And I remember them getting
phones involved or probably 20

635
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,320
years ago.
And and it was just like, wow,

636
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,200
that's cool.
You know, the whole like

637
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,480
audience is yellow or whatever
it was.

638
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,520
I don't even remember, but but
yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool

639
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,680
stuff.
So now you actually look at

640
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:38,080
lights, so that's good.
Yeah, I I kind of had a 2012 was

641
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,080
my goal to get off the road and
I was looking at 8th day and

642
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,560
was, you know, I was talking to
Claire and VR launched its

643
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,600
torrent division at that time
and and Ralph had been my boss

644
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,640
at Claire Vincent hired.
And I remember I was up meeting

645
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,520
with Tom Arco and just one of
the sweetest, nicest guys ever

646
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,200
and was kind of struggling with
the do I want to move away from

647
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,400
Nashville and family.
And literally Ralph called and

648
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,160
said, I don't really know a lot
about this company, but this is

649
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,760
what they want to do, etcetera.
They want us to build a team

650
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,520
and, you know, and it's in
Nashville.

651
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,320
And I was like, all right, so
did it.

652
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,520
And you know, very quickly when
a company where, you know, when

653
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,080
you get into a multi discipline
company, you know, OK, hey, I

654
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,800
can't buy this today because we
bought this camera or we need to

655
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,480
buy these lights for this.
So you're balancing a lot of

656
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,600
things.
And so I but I you know, I

657
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,600
really enjoyed all of it.
And then when I started, I was

658
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,600
started as a video guy and went
lightning and went audio.

659
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,120
So like being in that world of
360 wasn't that big a deal.

660
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,320
And so from then on, from 2012
and 2012 to now, it's been all

661
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,640
360 companies and it's great.
And I'm, you know, used to,

662
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,720
we're going to talk about audio
in this conversation.

663
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:51,720
Then we're going to flip to
lighting.

664
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,720
Now we'll talk about staging,
you know, and you just kind of

665
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,120
have to you learn it all not as
well as I mean we have in the

666
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,000
company now we have some amazing
experts of things like I, it's

667
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,680
enough to be able to understand
where they're at, but I would

668
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,280
never consider myself to be as
smart as they are in some of

669
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,720
these specific disciplines.
Yeah, yeah.

670
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,360
Well, I mean, some of the people
you have on your team are just

671
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,880
incredible people with all kinds
of things.

672
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,560
You know, it's like, is like
Jason, like I remember the first

673
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,920
meeting I sat in with Jason that
was sort of an OPS meeting.

674
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,080
And you know, I always knew
Jason as a, as an audio guy.

675
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:31,000
And all of a sudden he's like
this systems guy who is like

676
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,320
talking about their IT systems
and, and you know, their, their

677
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,600
ERP systems and stuff like that
and their rental software.

678
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,480
And I'm like, man, you know,
this guy really knows his stuff.

679
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,240
And you know, you're like a
former touring audio guy or

680
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,200
whatever.
Like this is interesting but

681
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,120
just a really smart guy who gets
it right.

682
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,640
Well, in the fact we have a guy
that is running kind of that

683
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,480
running your audio video company
and has been a company owner as

684
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,040
well.
He knows like, what really

685
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,200
matters and what you know what's
important.

686
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Yeah, yeah.
And that's hard stuff to teach.

687
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,560
You just have to kind of
experience, you know, like what

688
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,600
it's like to have payroll coming
up next week and, you know, no

689
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,960
revenue or whatever, right.
Like it's, those are the things

690
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,360
that you just have to live
through to really know what it

691
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,960
feels like.
But you know, you were, you

692
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,240
mentioned something and I don't
want to really jump too far out

693
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,440
of the timeline here or
anything, but you mentioned

694
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,080
something about, you know, just
focusing on the different

695
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,520
disciplines within a 360 company
versus just being an audio

696
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,120
company.
And that's got to bring in all

697
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,080
kinds of CapEx challenges from a
standpoint of just, you know,

698
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,480
strategically, like we've got X
number of dollars to spend next

699
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,680
year and how do you chop that up
to make the most sense?

700
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,760
And you know, I'm sure that is a
big part of your job today, as

701
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,680
you know, now that you're
running a 360 fairly large

702
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,960
company.
So how do you do that?

703
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,080
Like is it based on ROI?
Is it based on what's on the

704
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,120
books for next year?
Is it based on like just

705
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,560
sticking your finger up in the
air and going, you know, what's

706
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,120
it feel like?
Like how do you how do you make

707
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,280
those kind of decisions?
No, I mean, I think you so you

708
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,160
have to you have to obviously
keep people that are really

709
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,800
focused on what they do.
So for example, like even in a

710
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,560
360 company, we really want the
guys that are passionate about

711
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,680
audio to focus on audio.
Like they need to show up every

712
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,000
day and want to put out the best
product there.

713
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,040
And you know, the guys that over
here do staging to do that.

714
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,600
We certainly want them to
obviously collaborate.

715
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,840
But what I you know, you don't
need this guy to all of a sudden

716
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,920
worry about like, you know, can
I cross sell or what's going on

717
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,840
over here?
And then you, you know, you put

718
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,240
a lot of metrics to it.
I think you have to use use

719
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,520
data.
I really enjoy it, but I think

720
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,440
you use that as a tool.
And so a lot of people get in

721
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,280
this in our industry, you know,
if you're coming into this part

722
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,080
of it, you know, the corporate
thing of, hey, we're going to

723
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,120
look at heavy returns or that
you have to you have to use data

724
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,320
to pull emotion out of it and
then you use that to drive the

725
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,720
story.
And so you know, your point,

726
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,120
like what's next year?
So like we're looking at a lot

727
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,320
of things around.
Obviously there's a lot of bids

728
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,960
around FIFA, you know, what are
the opportunities?

729
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,280
But you know, a lesson I
remember, you know, you try to

730
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,280
take in all these little things
from people you hear over the

731
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,080
years more Troy Claire one time
saying, you know, it's never

732
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,080
about this gig if you're always
selling for the next gig, you

733
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,840
know, so hey, if we're going to
do something, you know, is it

734
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,480
this one?
But where does that gear go

735
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,760
after the fact?
So like if we look at some FIFA

736
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,440
stuff, we're going to look at it
here and go, all right, well, if

737
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,280
we had to buy something that
really supports this, what is

738
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,240
the life after that?
And so we're trying to kind of

739
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:50,080
stay within a lot of core
inventory and have a lot of

740
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,000
depth of it.
You know, OK, I've got vanilla

741
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,440
and chocolate and maybe, you
know, I don't have strawberry

742
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,960
and I don't have pistachio, but
I've got a lot of vanilla and

743
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,880
chocolate.
And so we can.

744
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,360
Instead of having four of
everything, you have 100 of one

745
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,440
thing or two things or whatever,
correct?

746
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,440
Makes a lot and then we try to
be you know secular like so next

747
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,280
year for us in the audio video
lighting company is is going to

748
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,040
be a heavy video year like and
we're telling our vendors that

749
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,960
like we have to obviously buy
for jobs that are leaving and we

750
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,040
you know we've got a large
stadium to where they'll go out

751
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,240
but like we're going to do a big
push and video and then the year

752
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:30,160
after that we'll be a really
large push and lighting so we

753
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,440
can maximize our dollars and not
just kind of keep plugging holes

754
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:34,960
as we.
Go.

755
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,240
But I, I, I'm still curious and,
and you may say, you know,

756
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,920
that's just our secret sauce and
I can't tell you that, but I'm,

757
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,440
I'm still curious.
Like, do you just take the head

758
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,400
of all your departments, all
your divisions and, you know,

759
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,080
throw them in a ring and let
them fight it out or, or is it

760
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,920
100% database like where it's
like, you know, OK, this one is

761
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:04,120
at 76% utilization and, you
know, XROY, and therefore that's

762
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,160
going to get the biggest part of
the budget.

763
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,840
Or, you know, we went all in on
getting, you know, The Beatles

764
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,440
reunion next year and and we
need to, you know, invest

765
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,480
heavily in the gear we need for
that.

766
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,520
Like or is it just a combination
of all kinds of those things and

767
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,040
a gut feel?
It's it's all that you AI mean.

768
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,160
I'd love to see the cage match
and just let them see fight out

769
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,000
for CapEx.
Dollars.

770
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:30,880
Feel like team lighting would
probably do that.

771
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,520
I think if you, if you
continually invest in what is

772
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,880
your best ROI, of course,
obviously you're going to have

773
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,640
great ROI, but the but you're
going to continue just to grow

774
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,320
that segment of business.
So you know, and you know, as

775
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,200
well as I know, like if I buy
this movie, like today, I'm

776
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,800
going to have to replace it and
you know, four to five years, if

777
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,160
I'm buying 100 and they kind of
add and then I sell that and buy

778
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,600
another hundred, I'm just really
doing the same revenue.

779
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,440
So I think that's where we've
tried to go.

780
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,920
We're going to make this big
kind of circular push and go,

781
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,240
this is a big push in the video
and we'll and we'll step up that

782
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,160
discipline and then we'll step
up this discipline and you kind

783
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,000
of keep raising them in the
process.

784
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,360
But you also, you know, it helps
with the vendor conversation.

785
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,760
So like, hey, guys, like, you
know that my spend is this year

786
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,760
and you hold money back because
there's always some tour that's

787
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,000
going to come up that you didn't
know about.

788
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,440
You want to go get something for
it.

789
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,600
But you know, it helps with the
vendors were like, hey, like I'm

790
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,160
going to do a bunch this year
and they go, well, actually you

791
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,040
should probably wait because
there's a new grand in May 4

792
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,960
that comes out this year and
you're going to want to replace

793
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,640
all yours.
OK, Well, that's good budgeting.

794
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,240
Yeah.
You know, but it's interesting

795
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:47,720
because you you said something
about, you know, just investing

796
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,640
in the in the biggest thing and
you're only growing that thing.

797
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:56,520
So, you know, that's always sort
of a strategical argument in my

798
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,520
own head.
Like do you put the most

799
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,080
marketing dollars into the thing
that's your fastest growth or

800
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,360
your biggest growth?
Or do you put it into the

801
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,120
smallest one that's not getting
any attention but has the

802
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,000
potential to grow?
And, you know, I'm sure there's

803
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,640
parents that are thinking the
same thing about their two kids.

804
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,920
You know, do I give the most
money to the one who's the best

805
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,600
soccer player or do I give the
one to the the kid who's the the

806
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,240
worst basketball player?
Like, you know, where do I put

807
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:26,640
the money or the effort, you
know, the time to take them to

808
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,040
practices or the best coaching
or whatever it is.

809
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,520
And but it's always like the
whole CapEx thing to me makes me

810
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,240
never want to be in the rental
business in our industry because

811
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:44,640
it's, it's so challenging and
it's so based on, on, you know,

812
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,920
fashion like, you know, today
every LD wants this light and

813
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,960
then, you know, six months from
now, it's this light.

814
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,640
And now we're supposed to dump
all of this inventory and get as

815
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,360
many of these as we can at top
dollar.

816
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,720
And you know, the money on the
rental side isn't going up near

817
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:04,600
as fast as the price of the
products.

818
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,800
So it's a tough businessman.
No, you got to, I mean, and

819
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,680
that's where you look at and go
like, you know, speak loud

820
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,200
speakers are great investment
like L Acoustics and obviously

821
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,000
the bigger the speaker gets,
sometimes it goes down.

822
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,400
But like L Acoustics is a brand.
So do you know your point?

823
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,880
Like you also look at the
vendors and when you do it.

824
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,560
So like that's a company that
really protects its partners.

825
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,440
They don't roll out
replacements.

826
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,520
They give you the long lifespan.
You know, K1 has been in the

827
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,480
market for you know how however
long.

828
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,600
So whenever they finally replace
it, you'll have gotten all your

829
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,520
investment out of it.
They have great apps, you know,

830
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,440
they have great second hand sale
value.

831
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,840
So like when you're picking
products, you're trying to pick

832
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,120
a balance of that and go, OK, I
need to have some of this stuff,

833
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,880
you know, and I need to
obviously, you know, like I need

834
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,800
to make sure I have plenty of
grand anime threes because it's

835
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,080
going to do that, you know.
But like, you know, there are

836
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,600
those items like fixtures of,
you know, I'm going to try to

837
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,040
pick a fixture and go, does this
work for a few years?

838
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,400
And that piece, can I get that
number back?

839
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,040
Or, you know, CB5 tiles, CB5
tiles are still, you know, when

840
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,560
you bought them, they're a great
investment.

841
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,360
So it's a balancing act.
But I I agree with them and like

842
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:18,000
you can be down that rabbit hole
and you have to be willing to

843
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,200
help with your customers.
Explain that we need to be at a

844
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,600
certain number because you need
to be profitable to make this

845
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,480
investment that we need to in
this industry to continually

846
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,520
make sure that we have the items
that they need to support their

847
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,760
artist or events or etcetera.
And that and, and you are to

848
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,240
bank for them in that process.
Like I need to be able to be

849
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:42,480
profitable, to invest, to make
sure that I have the items for

850
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,760
you so you can deliver the
creativity that you need to for

851
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,920
your artist.
Well, and I mean for any

852
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,680
company, you make enough wrong
choices and, and you know,

853
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,160
you're, you're in line at the
private equity or, or you know,

854
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,400
the, the private credit
facilities out there or whatever

855
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,920
and just burying your company in
debt and problems and everything

856
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,240
else.
And, and, you know, we've all

857
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:11,000
seen it happen, you know, like I
remember a particular case at

858
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,680
VAVER that was pretty painful
and, and, you know, cost them

859
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,560
greatly because they, they
invested heavily in something

860
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,120
that maybe didn't go as well as
they expected it to.

861
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,480
But like you mentioned LED tiles
and I'm not going to pick on

862
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,560
anyone brand, but I keep seeing
the rental rates dropping on

863
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,800
those things, but the purchase
price is going up and the gap

864
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,640
just getting bigger and bigger
and bigger between those two

865
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,040
things.
Like I remember when LED tiles

866
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:44,040
were special and you had to have
a particular brand and you had

867
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,240
to have a particular model and
stuff.

868
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:51,120
But now it's become a little
more, you know, ubiquitous or

869
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,080
whatever.
And also prices have gone down

870
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,640
by like 70 or 80% on the rental
market as well.

871
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,040
So that's a tough business to
look at and go, yeah, I mean,

872
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,440
you have the the the volume on
the rental side for double the

873
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,400
inventory, but you're now, you
know, getting declining ROI on,

874
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:16,280
on your CapEx money.
And so, yeah, scary business,

875
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,080
man.
It's a freaky business we're in.

876
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,280
Yeah, no, to your point, I mean,
you've been in as on the

877
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,480
manufacturer side, whatever the
thing that everybody wants this

878
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,880
year, there's probably some
alternate version of it next

879
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,800
year, you know, in cameras and
stuff like that.

880
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,120
It was all, you know, when you
get the two point OS and the,

881
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,240
you know, all this is, you know,
the heavy camera markets, you

882
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,520
know, you'll have DPS.
I have to have this this year

883
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,840
and then like a year later,
although that one's complete,

884
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,480
you know, shit, now we got to
have this one.

885
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,600
So LED.
I remember years ago seeing a

886
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,600
product, they came in, it was in
January.

887
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,920
They're showing us this product.
It was gorgeous and had this

888
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,440
really mechanics that were
really interesting.

889
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,120
And during the conversation he
was letting us know that the

890
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,480
replacement 2 point O less pixel
pitch whatever was coming out in

891
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,560
November.
And I remember standing there,

892
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,000
I'm like, so you buy it now, we
probably receive it in March and

893
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,920
you're shipping the next
replacement oven in November.

894
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,080
So we basically have this many
months to make up the.

895
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,000
Return You got to get your money
back in six months.

896
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,160
Yeah, and he was super excited
about that.

897
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,560
They were releasing as like this
is, you know, bad.

898
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,680
Sounds bad, I would have fired
him on the spot.

899
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,080
I I mean, I just, I walked back
to the office.

900
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,280
I was like, you guys can keep
talking about this like we're

901
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,520
not, I'm not going to jump up
and down about trying to buy

902
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,280
something like this.
Yeah, you know.

903
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,480
And today's podcast is brought
to you by Artistry in Motion.

904
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,160
When it's time to make a moment
unforgettable, Artistry in

905
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,520
Motion delivers.
Since 1994 they've been the go

906
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,480
to source for top tier confetti
and streamer special effects,

907
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,000
turning ordinary events into
explosive show stopping

908
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,640
experiences.
From concerts and TV productions

909
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,160
to major sporting events and
theme parks, they bring the wow

910
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,600
factor with precision and
creativity.

911
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:06,320
So whether you need a massive
stadium drop or a subtle picture

912
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,240
perfect cascade, they make it
happen on time every time.

913
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,760
Their team doesn't just supply
confetti, they collaborate with

914
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,000
show designers, event planners
and production teams to ensure

915
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,160
every effect is camera ready and
crowd approved.

916
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,120
Want to take your next event to
the next level?

917
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,720
Hit them up artistryinmotion.com
and let's make memories happen.

918
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:38,760
You know, and it like I, I've
had the, the leisure luxury pain

919
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,960
of looking at a lot of companies
either as a consultant directly

920
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,640
to that company, cuz I just been
around so long that people start

921
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,800
asking you to, hey, can you help
me over here?

922
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,960
I need a few things solved.
So I've gotten involved in a lot

923
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:57,880
of consulting over the years,
but I helped a 360 company do a

924
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:02,040
roll up and got very involved in
looking at each of the companies

925
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,800
they were buying and looking at
the spreadsheets and looking at

926
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,080
their CapEx and looking at their
financials and stuff.

927
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,920
And you know, two things shocked
me back then.

928
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,520
And part of this is going to
sound like a sales pitch for a

929
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,480
product I'm building, but two
things shocked me.

930
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,960
One was how much of their
revenue was actually spent on,

931
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,400
on sub rentals.
And you know, there's the

932
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,680
product pitch for, for what I'm
now doing.

933
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:32,080
And you know, in many cases it
was like, you know, if you

934
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:37,160
looked at, at the, the price of
a show, if, if I was charging,

935
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,960
you know, $250,000 for a show or
whatever, let's call it

936
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:49,040
200,025%, somewhere between 20
and 30% depending on which

937
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,560
company you were looking at, was
going straight out in cross

938
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,640
rentals.
And I was like, wow, that's a

939
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,200
lot.
You know, 50 grand on a, on a

940
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,400
$200,000 show is in cross rental
outbound.

941
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,600
And then, you know, the other
one was the percentage on the

942
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,880
books for the percentage of of
revenue at the end of the year

943
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,800
that's spent on CapEx for the
next year.

944
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:16,800
And this particular roll up that
I was involved in, you know,

945
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,880
didn't really believe that
number and was quite shocked by

946
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,720
the second year of how much
money they really undervalued

947
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,800
CapEx needs.
You know, they didn't put enough

948
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,400
on, they didn't put a big enough
line on their on their budgets

949
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,640
for cash for those CapEx needs.
And they started having people

950
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,920
yelling at them saying, you
know, where's the money?

951
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,520
Like we need this stuff to be
able to get these shows and we

952
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,880
can't get it so.
Yeah, there was, there was a gap

953
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,200
where when I was I was with PRG
and then I went into the

954
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,080
creative space and was with an
agency and then, you know, kind

955
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,520
of back in the production world.
And so there was about a year

956
00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:00,360
and a half gap where I was doing
some consulting for equity

957
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,520
groups that were looking at
production companies because I

958
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,040
didn't want to do that while I
was in one of those companies.

959
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,800
That would be wrong.
And that was one of my biggest

960
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,360
conversations with them is, you
know, the continual CapEx is

961
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,440
something you'd have to factor
in because a lot of these

962
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,120
investment groups will do the
initial and are very aware of

963
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,960
it, you know, and there's
obviously ones that are better

964
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,480
than others.
But they were surprised when the

965
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,760
next year you came back and
said, OK, remember that $80

966
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,360
million you gave us last year?
Well, now we need that again.

967
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,280
And they're like, we'll wait a
minute.

968
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,320
This is every year, like, yeah,
every year we're going to purge

969
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,880
inventory out, we're going to
refresh it.

970
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,720
And so I think that continual
CapEx need is something that a

971
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:44,320
lot of people don't plan for in
this industry when looking and

972
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,800
coming in from the outside that
like that is part of it and that

973
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,120
cycle is just speed up over the
years.

974
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,120
Well, and you know, it can be
compared to like the car rental

975
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,680
business for example.
The big difference that I see is

976
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,600
manufacturers get heavily
involved in that program in the

977
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,560
car rental side of things.
So they'll, you know, General

978
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,520
Motors will have a deal with
Hertz, for example, where

979
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,240
they're selling the next amount
of cars per year and they may

980
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:16,280
take back a certain number every
year when they're renewing their

981
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,560
fleet or whatever.
And it's just a commitment

982
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,680
between the manufacturer and the
car rental company in some

983
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:27,720
sense.
And the numbers, the gap isn't

984
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:33,280
as big because like a a $20,000
car that Hertz is buying today,

985
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:39,600
they can sell it after 8-9,
twelve months of rental for

986
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:44,440
16,000 or 15,000.
And they're getting a discount

987
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,680
from the car company too.
So they're buying a $20,000 car

988
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,440
for 17 or whatever.
So it's a tiny gap between that

989
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,000
and the used price.
And so in our industry, that gap

990
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,320
is much bigger.
You know, it's you're losing a

991
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,520
lot more on your salvage cost to
be I mean you want that second

992
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,920
hand cost and you want to buy at
a volume where your cost to buy

993
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,360
gets as close as you can to that
second hand cost.

994
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,120
And there are, there's some
large rental companies that are

995
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:17,360
out there, they're buying and
volume that their purchase price

996
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,280
is what they're reselling for
after a hypothetically, let's

997
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,480
say three to four years, you
know where basically the rentals

998
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,200
from in that time frame are
running the business and

999
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,320
creating the, you know, the
EBITDA and, and they're

1000
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,920
recouping their investment.
But you have to buy at such a

1001
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:33,720
volume.
And to your point, we don't have

1002
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:36,200
that kind of second hand market
the way that the car industry

1003
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,600
does.
No, you know, it's a much more

1004
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:44,280
reliable sell through and and in
the car industry it seems to

1005
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,640
work really well, whereas in in
our business not so well.

1006
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,840
And you know the other like
those guys that you're talking

1007
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,640
about who can buy and sell sort
of at the same price.

1008
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,320
They can buy the new stuff for
what they're selling the old

1009
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,360
stuff for.
So they're just really life

1010
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,560
cycling inventory and it's not
costing them any money to do

1011
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,560
that.
And their profits come from the

1012
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,560
rental.
Like you said, it used to work

1013
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,160
like that, like you used to in
the lighting business.

1014
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:16,840
You used to buy, example, a
Cyberlite for roughly $5000 and

1015
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:21,440
you would use it and you know,
bash, which ended up becoming

1016
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,720
the four wall model when when
Canon started it and then became

1017
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,080
the main light model when Canon
bought main light.

1018
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,480
You basically sell off your
inventory within two years

1019
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,440
maximum.
And in doing so you negotiate

1020
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:40,040
very large volume purchase deals
with those manufacturers where

1021
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,640
you're buying at a price that
really closes that gap between

1022
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:49,480
used and and replacement cost.
And you could get away with it

1023
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,800
like it back in the day, you'd,
you'd buy that Cyberlite, rent

1024
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:58,000
it for $300 a week and then
you'd sell it used for five

1025
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,480
grand within two years.
And now you're buying it for

1026
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:06,680
12,000 for the moving light,
you're paying 12,000, you're

1027
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:11,240
selling it used for 6000 and
you're renting it for less than

1028
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,880
$200 a week, you know, or
whatever, right?

1029
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:18,280
Like all the numbers have gone
funky in, in the whole equation.

1030
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,160
And you know, hence all the
private equity needed for our

1031
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,200
industry now is, is the shows
are bigger and the gaps are

1032
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:31,880
bigger and CapEx is bigger.
So obviously the cash has to

1033
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,920
come from somewhere.
No, and that and that's why, you

1034
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,280
know, in other companies or in
this one, you're looking at

1035
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,080
those items that have the
longest lifespan to hold it.

1036
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,680
You know, I mean, that's why I
use it, you know, AI just like

1037
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,120
the company, but I use it like,
you know, a company like an L

1038
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,520
acoustics that where that value
is staying up, you know, as long

1039
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,560
as you can.
So when you do go get your money

1040
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,920
back, you can recover it and it
gives you the best ROI, you

1041
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,560
know, and it's tough like you're
going to have items when you

1042
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,280
look at your whole book of
business, you're going to have

1043
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,720
items that you're like, that
item is doesn't hit the numbers.

1044
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,320
But I also have to have it to
get all this other stuff working

1045
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,880
and to have this job, you know,
so it's a very blended average

1046
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,240
that you're constantly trying
to, you know, weigh against.

1047
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,480
Yeah, yeah.
No, you're right.

1048
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,440
And, and I mean, L acoustic is
obviously the very best example

1049
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,240
of that right now in lighting,
you know, maybe Roby, but the

1050
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,000
gap again between new and used
is still pretty large.

1051
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,080
And you know, I don't know, I
always look at pressure from,

1052
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,720
you know, Asia, etcetera.
Like, you know, you're starting

1053
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,240
to see decent line array
products coming out of Asia that

1054
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,280
are not direct copies of L
Acoustic.

1055
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,840
Like I'm not talking about the
copies, which there are absolute

1056
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,320
copies, you know that some have
been caught, others haven't yet.

1057
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,880
But if you look at even just
some of the the actual

1058
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,600
innovation happening in China in
the audio business now I'm

1059
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,480
seeing products, it's starting
to get better.

1060
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,400
Certainly on the lighting side,
they maybe had a head start.

1061
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,760
So they got better several years
ago and you're starting to see

1062
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,120
companies that are selling
direct into the US market like

1063
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,280
Acme.
That are very good products now

1064
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,480
they're not like you can't just
go, oh, that's Chinese junk like

1065
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,160
you used to be able to because
almost everything is Chinese now

1066
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,960
and most of it isn't junk.
It's all good, you know, so

1067
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,320
certainly some is better than
others.

1068
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,800
Like, you know, Elation might be
the best of the Chinese brands

1069
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,440
and then maybe Chauvet and then
maybe Acme or however that lines

1070
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,160
up.
But but it's all good now.

1071
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:38,800
And so in in the line array
stuff in big audio.

1072
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:43,560
Is there starting to be any real
competition from Asia yet or is

1073
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,320
it still a few years away?
No, I mean I think you know,

1074
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,440
you're still investing in the in
the the three large brands and

1075
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,160
then you know JBL is, is kind of
coming in there.

1076
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:56,600
There is a place for those
there.

1077
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:57,920
Look, there's a place for
everything.

1078
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,840
There's a budget for everything,
you know, and there's companies

1079
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,400
that work in all budgets and
there's jobs in all budgets and,

1080
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,520
and you have to at any level,
you have to make the right

1081
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:11,280
investment for where you're at.
You know, you know, in our level

1082
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,320
and the level that fortunately
level I've been in a lot of

1083
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,120
companies, you know, you're
working with a couple

1084
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,520
manufacturers, you're staying
around the DNB, you're staying

1085
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,280
around L Acoustics admire when
you get in the speaker

1086
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:25,760
manufacturers because you know,
rider acceptability, their

1087
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,840
support and then just, you know,
things they do to protect the

1088
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,800
customer.
You know, my I, you know it.

1089
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,160
They really make sure to try to
get those ROI's for the customer

1090
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,280
and and protect that investment
the best they can.

1091
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,920
And so you know, you do it, but
it's also to make sure like,

1092
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,120
does this work?
Can it rent?

1093
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:47,000
I mean, at the end of the day,
we're not running museums, so

1094
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,640
the gear's got to get out of the
warehouse, you know, So you have

1095
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,480
to have something that people
are calling for.

1096
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,440
So it doesn't really matter what
you like, it has to be what you

1097
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,160
know what your customer is going
to want to use.

1098
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,760
Yeah, well, it also, you know,
you said you got to decide

1099
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,520
what's what's, you know, what
you need or whatever, but you

1100
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,600
also have to decide who you want
to be like who who do you want

1101
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,040
your customers to see you as?
Like I, I can't tell you how

1102
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,320
many times people have called me
and said, Hey, what do you think

1103
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,680
about this Sheds lighting stuff?
You know, Sheds is a brand that

1104
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,400
sells on Facebook and on Amazon
and stuff, right?

1105
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:28,200
It's a direct from China DTC
brand and you know, like I just

1106
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,480
say to them, what do you want,
you know, the name on your door

1107
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:36,080
to be like, what do you want
people to think of you as in the

1108
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,920
market?
You know, the low cost leader or

1109
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,240
the guys who get it right every
time and and do really high

1110
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,000
quality work.
And you know, that's who you

1111
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,600
want to associate your brand
with.

1112
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:50,280
Is is, you know, you want your
brand married to an L acoustic

1113
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,560
or to, you know, Shenzhen Audio
manufacturing Group or whatever

1114
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,960
it's called, right.
And so, yeah, I think that plays

1115
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:01,680
a role certainly.
Like do you want to be a, a top

1116
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,560
tier quality brand or do you
want to be, you know, the low

1117
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,240
cost leader?
Yeah.

1118
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,280
And we and we've been very lucky
that the brands that this

1119
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,760
company, other companies work
with, you know DMB and and and

1120
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,240
Araton and and Roby and all
these to be able to work on that

1121
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,800
because you want to be able to
deliver that kind of quality to

1122
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:20,120
the customer.
Yeah.

1123
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:24,680
So I think somewhere in your
notes I read about a special

1124
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,240
relationship that you have with
Jerry Harris, which The funny

1125
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,840
thing is I have a similar
special relationship which

1126
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,920
started out pretty much the
exact same way as you said yours

1127
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,320
did.
So tell me about that.

1128
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:44,000
I so 2012 I went into VR and we
started obviously tour sound and

1129
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:49,080
VR grew and did what it did and,
and I think under events it was

1130
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,120
fantastic.
And we certainly had, you know,

1131
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,600
the growth and things like that
of how it's managed.

1132
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,720
Obviously, as we all know it
headed into bankruptcy.

1133
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,480
And so, you know, PRG and
through obviously Equity

1134
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,960
Partners, they acquired it and
you know, so a lot of the people

1135
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,560
that were still there post, you
know, that that phase were not

1136
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,320
the people that were involved in
a lot of that.

1137
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,200
And so, you know, we had built a
really great company.

1138
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,960
I that's the one thing I think
that anybody that looks at that

1139
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,880
time frame and goes that
company, if you take out the

1140
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,720
finances, which are important,
that company dominated and

1141
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,680
really was solid.
Obviously until it, you know,

1142
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,400
whenever you go from private
ownership into an equity group,

1143
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,960
you change how you know it needs
to function.

1144
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,400
But it was, you know, that time
of the people that are involved

1145
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:36,760
in that company was really
special.

1146
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:42,320
So of course we went into PRG
huge chip on our shoulders, you

1147
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,120
know, and, and I haven't been at
PRG for six years.

1148
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,240
The amount of people I've
apologized to at PRG for

1149
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:52,760
probably that first six months,
a year of, you know, of them

1150
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,400
buying us and what's feeling
like was a merger, you know, and

1151
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,920
just what the reality it was.
And so we're in a meeting and,

1152
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,160
you know, it's my first meeting
with Jerry and, you know,

1153
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,640
driving this part of it.
And, you know, Jerry makes a

1154
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:08,920
comment.
I think we had a difference of

1155
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:12,120
opinion or something like that.
And I got just, you know, the

1156
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:16,360
tongue lashing from them, all
the expletives, you know, just,

1157
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,920
you know, the normal thing.
And I'm like, all right, well,

1158
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,360
obviously I'm I'm done.
Like this is, you know, this is

1159
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,320
it.
And we ended up, you know, he

1160
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,280
pulled me aside later and we sat
there and talked.

1161
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:31,440
And the good thing, the thing
about Jerry is he can literally

1162
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,480
in that moment be like, I
disagree with you on this point.

1163
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,440
And it has no bearing on how he
feels about you and anything

1164
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:42,840
else where a lot of people like,
you know, UMF me and now I hate

1165
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,920
everything about you, you know,
so he's king of like we yelled

1166
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,680
at each other and this and now
let's go have dinner.

1167
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,440
And we end up having a really
good relationship and, and went

1168
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,160
from there of like honest
conversations of this.

1169
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:58,400
And he's been a really good
mentor in there And I still got

1170
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:02,520
MF and other meetings from him,
you know, after that.

1171
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:04,160
And it was like, Yep, you're
right.

1172
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,080
But I, you know, it's kind of
that same thing of like, you

1173
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,640
know, when in this situation
very much had a chip on my

1174
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,440
shoulder.
You know, I'm going to make my

1175
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,080
point not really giving him the
due credit where he is.

1176
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,840
And, you know, definitely got
shut down on that first one.

1177
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,560
But honestly, it helped us to
sit there and have a very, and I

1178
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,880
still literally have a card from
him he sent me for Christmas

1179
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,760
stuff.
I remember our first meeting

1180
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,920
like it was yesterday, you know,
And so it's, it's a good joke

1181
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:32,600
point for him.
And he's like, you know, look,

1182
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,560
he's like, I appreciate the fact
that you're always going to be

1183
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,880
honest, you know, and I'm going
to tell you how it is.

1184
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,200
And that's where we started
from, you know, and I, I think

1185
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,080
maybe not the best way to start
a relationship.

1186
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:46,360
But maybe it is.
You know, I think Jerry likes

1187
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:51,640
the people most who can take
that and, and handle it well and

1188
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,600
can go to dinner after and don't
go pouting off in a corner

1189
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,800
somewhere.
And, you know, because I always

1190
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,200
got a, a degree of respect from
Jerry that I don't think all of

1191
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:07,240
his suppliers got because I took
the blow and, you know, didn't

1192
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,400
kiss his ass at the end of of
the the whippin.

1193
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:15,560
Usually talked back a little bit
and fed him whatever my side of

1194
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,680
the story was, whether he liked
it or not.

1195
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:21,320
And you know, most of those
meetings, even though they ended

1196
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:25,800
poorly, usually finished up with
a dinner or a phone call or a

1197
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,080
something where it didn't impact
the relationship at all.

1198
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,680
And I've always had a huge
amount of respect for Jerry and

1199
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:35,360
for, you know, what he does and
what he has done.

1200
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:40,720
And, you know, he, he's like,
you know, that guy that that

1201
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:45,040
goes into war and comes out, you
know, usually with a win.

1202
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:47,960
And I like it.
You know, I do.

1203
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,920
I love his style all the time.
Sometimes when it's directed at

1204
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,120
me, not so much, but, but he's a
great guy.

1205
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:55,480
Like I really, really like
Jerry.

1206
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:59,520
And when you get him outside of
work and outside of work people,

1207
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:02,960
you know, I've had dinners with
him in Palm Beach where he used

1208
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,880
to go quite often.
And I live in Palm Beach, and

1209
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,680
I've had dinners with him where
we didn't even talk about

1210
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,800
business, you know, where it was
just very friendly, very

1211
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,720
cordial, very nice and, you
know, just a friend talking

1212
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:21,640
about life and whatever, right.
So, So yeah, it's just funny

1213
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,160
that I've had those exact same
meetings that you're talking

1214
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,880
about in a very similar
relationship.

1215
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,520
Yeah, and it's, you know, and
it's funny, like we've he's

1216
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,640
we've had the conversation after
the fact.

1217
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,200
He's like, yeah, you're
absolutely right.

1218
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,319
You know, it, it, it was in that
moment where I don't think

1219
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:38,399
anybody wanted to hear anything
else.

1220
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,840
But to your point, he's we've
had some amazing times of just

1221
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:46,160
talking about the normal stuff.
And he's very good at, you know,

1222
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,439
bouncing anything off of, you
know, and, and, you know, at the

1223
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,120
end of the day, I mean, he's
seen he's seen it all, you know,

1224
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,680
and having a guy like that in
the company to not take his

1225
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,200
opinion and ask him advice, you
know, which is the role that he

1226
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,120
plays for them now of, you know,
look, I'm here to help, you

1227
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,240
know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1228
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:10,560
It's it's all very interesting
and and you know, like some of

1229
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,800
the legendary stories that I've
heard of him, you know, going

1230
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,560
chest to chest with, with some
of the bankers and stuff, you

1231
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:21,760
know, kept that company, you
know, from becoming extinct.

1232
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,640
I think at times, you know,
because they ran into some

1233
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,920
financial challenges over the
years that would have buried

1234
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,160
lesser people.
And he just stood firm and and

1235
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:33,760
made things happen.
Right.

1236
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,359
So good on I mean.
He, I was fortunate, I, I was

1237
01:09:37,359 --> 01:09:40,880
one of the people that kept a
job during COVID.

1238
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,920
We obviously didn't, you know,
massive reductions in staff and

1239
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:45,680
salaries if you stayed on all
that.

1240
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:48,840
And we had a daily leadership
call.

1241
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:54,040
And I mean, I watched him juggle
battleships, you know, pay for

1242
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,920
that company out of his own
pocket, fight every single day

1243
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,360
to make sure that that company
didn't go on her and people had

1244
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,160
a paycheck.
And I mean, and it was, you

1245
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,520
know, we had conversations
outside that like, I, I knew how

1246
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,240
many weeks he was, you know,
he's like, I have this many

1247
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,040
weeks left in my bank account if
I don't get these deals solved

1248
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,600
to make sure that we're, you
know, that we're here.

1249
01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:19,280
And so, I mean, that guy worked
tirelessly, you know, and, and

1250
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,280
made it up to, you know, made it
up to all of us.

1251
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,520
And so I I can't say enough good
things about him.

1252
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,760
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, and he's he's the

1253
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:31,600
penultimate entrepreneur, you
know, live in it like, and I get

1254
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,280
that on a much smaller scale
than than Jerry Harris, you

1255
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,600
know, same challenges, same
moments where you're like, okay,

1256
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,640
this is a pivotal moment.
You know, I could go this way or

1257
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,520
I could go this way and both of
them possibly end in death.

1258
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,920
You know, which should I choose,
the painful slow death or the

1259
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,840
really fast 1?
You know, So, yeah, it's always

1260
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,440
fun.
So now you are the Chief

1261
01:10:56,440 --> 01:11:00,680
Operating Officer at Concert
Stuff Group, which is one of my

1262
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:04,880
favorite, you know, corporate
entity names in the industry

1263
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,120
probably at the moment.
The fact that Jim and Michael

1264
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,560
and team made that the corporate
entity name is one of my

1265
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:12,440
favorite things about.
It.

1266
01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:14,080
I love it.
I love it so much.

1267
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:15,520
What do you do?
Concert stuff.

1268
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:17,560
Yeah.
You know, literally that's

1269
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:18,880
that's it.
We do that.

1270
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:19,880
We got stuff.
What do you need?

1271
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,200
Yeah.
I know I love it, I love it and

1272
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,720
I love the people behind it too.
So like one of the questions I

1273
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:29,120
had is, are they still like
active on a daily basis?

1274
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:34,960
So are you working with and for
the founders or so they haven't

1275
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,280
like stepped aside and and just
advise you when necessary or

1276
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,920
whatever?
No, this, I mean, and look, this

1277
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,680
is a this is a new role and it's
not a role that they had.

1278
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:50,080
And so a lot of, you know, I
have so much respect for Jim and

1279
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,440
Michael of obviously wanting to
try this and and bring this in,

1280
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,560
but no, I mean, Jim is super
involved.

1281
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,800
You know, we had breakfast
yesterday morning.

1282
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:03,480
We have, you know, we have a
weekly meetings, we talk every

1283
01:12:03,480 --> 01:12:06,960
other day text, you know, hey,
here's this, you know, and, and

1284
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,600
the things and he's done amazing
and everything.

1285
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,760
And he's also very good about
letting his team do stuff, you

1286
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,920
know, and he's really successful
and over like right now, you

1287
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,880
know, G2 structures is a really
amazing part of the business for

1288
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,320
us.
And you get on a call at Jim

1289
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,720
where you're talking about that
or talking other projects that

1290
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,400
he's doing outside of just
obviously running the vision of

1291
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:30,920
the company.
You know, he you just watch him

1292
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,920
get super excited.
It's it's another, you know,

1293
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:34,240
kind of like a Jerry, it's
another guy.

1294
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:39,000
It's just a great entrepreneur.
And he's the same guy all the

1295
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,320
time.
And he's very open about who he

1296
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:45,000
is and his values and his
culture, like, and he's that

1297
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,200
person all the time, which I
respect.

1298
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,920
You know, if, if you're going to
be an asshole, be an asshole all

1299
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:52,120
the time, you're going to be a
good guy.

1300
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:56,000
Like, and he's, you know, he's a
very, you know, family religious

1301
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,720
guy.
Like, this is who I am.

1302
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,360
This is who I want.
And I couldn't say enough nice

1303
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:01,480
things about him.
Yeah.

1304
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:03,440
Yeah, I've always really liked
them.

1305
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:05,760
Well, and he's, and he's smart
as anything.

1306
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,000
I mean, the, you know, he's
started all these businesses,

1307
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,840
he's found needs.
He knows the bank process.

1308
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,840
He knows, you know, he, he knows
CapEx, he knows every part of

1309
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,400
this.
You know, he's, he's just, he's,

1310
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:19,760
you know, a wealth of
information and a great leader.

1311
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:24,760
I think it's so funny that you
know, you your first job

1312
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,440
application or whatever, you
refuse to do staging and now you

1313
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,920
operate a staging company. 100%
yeah.

1314
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,320
And, and look, I and I clarify
this, the guys over there are

1315
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:37,600
incredible.
You know, when you look at the

1316
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,760
guys in Guardian and you look at
the guys in G2S and G2 Mobile, I

1317
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:42,520
mean, they are the best of the
best.

1318
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,520
Cliff and Greg Harold who run G2
S are incredible.

1319
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,920
And all those crew chiefs.
I am literally just trying to,

1320
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:52,240
you know, what can I do and, and
how can I listen and how can I

1321
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,480
help?
And you know it.

1322
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:56,280
We're super blessed with some of
the people we have in this

1323
01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:00,320
company.
So you know, what is what is

1324
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,880
your role like?
Are you running the company or

1325
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,760
is Jim running the company And
you just, you know, go like he

1326
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,600
says, take care of this stuff
and you take care of this stuff.

1327
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,800
Or it's in the normal, it's in
the normal, you know, Jim's

1328
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,040
doing the normal CEO thing.
Hey, here's the vision, here's

1329
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,800
the direction we want to go.
You know, here's the things he's

1330
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,000
passionate about, here's the M&A
he wants to look at.

1331
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,560
And we're, you know, we're
executing that, you know, and I

1332
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,760
am, as I've, as I'm learning,
trying to weigh in and say, Hey,

1333
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:30,600
what do you think about this or
what do you think about this?

1334
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:33,240
And in fair and, and he gives a
lot of autonomy.

1335
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:35,920
And there I've been very blessed
that, you know, when we did

1336
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,960
this, it was, I want you to come
in and learn.

1337
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:44,080
And you know, it's not like
there's not a check in, you

1338
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:48,680
know, it's so, but you know, I
think in any good organization,

1339
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,920
you know, your CEO is leading
that vision and it says this is

1340
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,760
what's important to me and this
is a culture and this is the

1341
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,840
direction I want to go.
And in my position and anybody

1342
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,800
else in the C-Suite, our job is
to kind of go execute that.

1343
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,280
And then there's things that
we're working on.

1344
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:06,360
You know, they did this roll up
in the concert stuff and it's

1345
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:10,240
been a little over a year, but
we kind of rolled all this in

1346
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,440
and, you know, they started the
board and, and took all these

1347
01:15:12,440 --> 01:15:15,160
companies and brought them in
and we started some acquisition.

1348
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,440
So a lot of the stuff that we're
doing is all the back end stuff

1349
01:15:18,440 --> 01:15:22,040
that I know anyway, like that
was the thing of like, you know,

1350
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:24,800
all right, well, you know, some
of these things coming from

1351
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,880
other companies.
So like, you know, we're going

1352
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,480
to go work on IT.
We're going to go work on HR

1353
01:15:29,480 --> 01:15:32,120
payroll, how we do contracting,
insurance.

1354
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:34,960
These are not things that like,
you know, we don't need to waste

1355
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,080
the time in a meeting to sit
there and be like, well, what

1356
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:38,400
how, what do you want to do
here?

1357
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,120
That's the role of it.
And I think then, you know, we

1358
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,080
try to all strategically look at
future opportunities.

1359
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:47,680
And that there is private equity
involved in this as well, right?

1360
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,120
Nope, it's still all completely.
Private.

1361
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,360
Still private ownership.
That is incredible.

1362
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,400
I love that.
Yeah, I didn't know, like I, I

1363
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:58,160
had never heard of a private
equity transaction in it.

1364
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,760
So, but then when you see
companies rolling up and

1365
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:07,160
targeting acquisition and stuff
like obviously very successful

1366
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,160
in that company to be able to
get into that position without

1367
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:11,880
bringing in private Equity
Partners.

1368
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,920
Yeah, We have a very good bank
relationship with JP Morgan.

1369
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:18,520
You know, they're as everybody
does.

1370
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,800
You have, you know, you have
options to sit there and do

1371
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,320
stuff and they're fantastic and
supportive of it.

1372
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,520
But no, this is still one of
the, you know, privately owned

1373
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:27,600
companies.
That is amazing.

1374
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:29,320
That's awesome.
Congratulations.

1375
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:33,920
Not that there's anything
against private equity, but you

1376
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,680
know, it's nice when you can do
it and and remain A privately

1377
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,520
held company where you still own
all the stock or at least the

1378
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:45,920
majority of it.
So what what are some of the

1379
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:49,080
challenges though, like when it
comes to operating a private

1380
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:54,560
company like that versus
extremely well funded war chest

1381
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,280
companies like Clair Global
where you've spent a lot of time

1382
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:03,120
and PRG maybe not quite as well
funded right now, but I'm sure

1383
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:07,400
they will be again and and even
solo tech and others.

1384
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:12,960
But, you know, there's obviously
certain challenges where, like,

1385
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:16,120
you know, maybe one company can
go after a Taylor Swift tour and

1386
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:20,000
you can't, for example, because,
you know, it's just too

1387
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,600
expensive and you could buy
three other companies with the

1388
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:27,600
same amount of money.
But like, does that present huge

1389
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:30,160
challenges as you're trying to
grow your business or you just

1390
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,080
grow?
No, I mean anyways, you know,

1391
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:37,400
you can go get a giant check
from any of these things.

1392
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,360
You then obviously, you know,
like anything, like any giant,

1393
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,720
you know, check you have your
interest payments are going to

1394
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,400
significantly go up.
So you're balancing that of, you

1395
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:49,680
know, I could buy the gear for
Taylor Swift or I can pay this

1396
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:52,800
payment.
You know, I think it, I think

1397
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,560
right now it offers a lot of
opportunity.

1398
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:57,280
There is to your point, there's
a certain size and when you need

1399
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:00,320
to be in there, you know, it it
helps to have a different kind

1400
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,920
of investor.
Sometimes that's private equity,

1401
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,320
sometimes that's a strategic for
family institution, you know, to

1402
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:08,480
kind of help you along with
that.

1403
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,760
You know, the good thing is if
you're a solid company, you can

1404
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:14,760
generally go get what you need
from the bank in measured, you

1405
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,240
know, amounts.
It's when you want to do it in a

1406
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,200
hit the gas pedal harder is when
you, you know, really see the

1407
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:22,880
opportunities with private
equity.

1408
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:26,560
Yeah, you know, I think the
advantages are is you know,

1409
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:27,960
there's advantage
disadvantagement.

1410
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,440
The advantages are is our board
is all the people that have been

1411
01:18:30,440 --> 01:18:31,880
with Jim that have built these
companies.

1412
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:35,400
So you have the owners of the
company functioning as the

1413
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,960
board, very well educated, very
well trusted.

1414
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,440
You know, you're, you're
collectively moving in the same

1415
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:44,080
direction.
All the best, which is a really

1416
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:46,600
nice place to be.
Generally too, you know, yeah,

1417
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:52,560
versus, you know, some of the
other intentions, but yeah, it,

1418
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:59,440
you know, it, it just feels like
these days every sort of mid

1419
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,720
size company in our industry is
just building to a level where

1420
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,680
they get the attention of either
Claire or Solo tech or 4 Wall

1421
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,080
or, you know, one of these
deeply funded companies.

1422
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:14,560
And like, obviously in the last
two days we've seen 2 deals.

1423
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,800
You know, 1 is that 4 Wall
announced their big debt deal

1424
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:20,640
with, with Man Group in, in the
UK.

1425
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:25,840
And then secondly, Claire Wing
being purchased by by Claire,

1426
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,680
which was one of the worst kept
secrets.

1427
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,520
I think over the past few weeks.
I've I've heard it so many

1428
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,280
times.
So it's like, Oh yeah, the press

1429
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:35,760
release is out today.
Big deal.

1430
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,560
But you know, obviously, and
this isn't me putting down

1431
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,320
Claire or 4 wall.
I mean, both are great companies

1432
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:46,720
and, and especially like to me,
Claire is, is such a massive

1433
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,440
brand and has such a massive
opportunity to build a, an even

1434
01:19:50,440 --> 01:19:54,080
bigger global brand, of course,
but it just feels like

1435
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:58,720
everyone's auditioning to become
part of these, these large, you

1436
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:06,440
know, fund held companies.
I take for all that mix, I, I

1437
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:09,280
will say that there's a lot of
companies and you can respect

1438
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:11,880
this because you've been you've
seen this is there's a lot of

1439
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:14,920
companies where succession
planning was not in there.

1440
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:20,640
And so, you know, what happens
when the founders ready to not

1441
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:24,280
be there?
And I think that creates a lot

1442
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:27,320
of opportunity.
And then at the same time

1443
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,160
there's, you know, you know,
there's other situations that

1444
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,000
make sense.
But I mean, I think in our

1445
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:35,560
industry, you know, that has
been one of the big drivers

1446
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:38,120
that's probably post
consolidation, you know, post

1447
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,240
COVID consolidation of a lot of
these places because it's a lot

1448
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:45,280
of founders going like, you
know, I'm out, you know, do I?

1449
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:48,240
I want to cash out?
I don't want to ESOP.

1450
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,480
I don't have somebody that's a,
you know, family member that

1451
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:54,320
wants to take it over, you know,
and I'm but at the same time,

1452
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,680
then you look at, you know,
companies and you know, who

1453
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,320
knows what anybody does?
You look at companies like neg

1454
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,280
earth and you look at companies
like upstage and you look at

1455
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:04,800
like these institutional
companies that are, you know,

1456
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,720
obviously have support, but
like, you know, are still being

1457
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,080
led by the people that led them,
you know, and are solid

1458
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,520
companies, you know where they
go.

1459
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:18,880
You know, we all that, but I
mean, I think you know, yeah,

1460
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,400
there's no it is it's I I was
trying to think of like in LA

1461
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:22,600
based companies the other day
that.

1462
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,920
Weren't tied into and is another
one.

1463
01:21:25,440 --> 01:21:27,640
Yeah, yeah.
I mean with with Michael and you

1464
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,960
know, like where he goes and
what he does, but I think you

1465
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,640
know.
And there was a it's say and

1466
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:35,560
there was sound image.
And but again, they're, they're

1467
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,480
all being bought up, you know,
and you're right, though

1468
01:21:38,480 --> 01:21:43,360
succession planning is, is a big
topic that probably become.

1469
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,240
I think it drives a lot of, of
course, you know, what do I want

1470
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:47,560
to do here?
Yeah, yeah.

1471
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:50,480
And, you know, you get to a
certain size and you get to a

1472
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:54,320
certain age and you get to a
certain, you have having gone

1473
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:57,440
through COVID, guys are just
going, oh God, I don't want to

1474
01:21:57,440 --> 01:22:00,800
ever have to do that again at my
age, you know, or whatever.

1475
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,880
So, you know, it starts to make
a huge amount of sense.

1476
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,840
And again, I'm not I'm not
shaming anyone for doing it.

1477
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,280
I think everyone should do it.
If you don't have a good

1478
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:13,160
succession plan with the funding
required to continue growing

1479
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:17,320
that business going forward,
then, you know, selling becomes

1480
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:22,920
a very, very good option and
everyone should look at it if

1481
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:24,560
you're in that position, of
course.

1482
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:28,920
So what else did I want to ask
you?

1483
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:31,800
There was a big one that was on
this list here somewhere that I

1484
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:37,240
wanted to get into.
So you know, like what the the

1485
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:41,800
trajectory of concert stuff
group you've talked about, like

1486
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:44,680
you guys are continuing to look
at acquisitions, you're looking

1487
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:48,360
still at growing each of the
individual divisions of the

1488
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,480
company.
So is is audio, lighting, video

1489
01:22:51,480 --> 01:22:53,920
and staging all run completely
separately?

1490
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:56,800
Like are they separate entities
within the group?

1491
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,120
Yeah, they're, they're separate
in these they we, we roll up we

1492
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,960
have a common shared service
group that's that supports them

1493
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,960
your normal backup backup house
functions, but.

1494
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:08,200
Marketing, accounting, What else
ITE.

1495
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:10,920
HR fine, ITE all that kind of
stuff.

1496
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:16,480
And I think you know the area
that we've but you have to have

1497
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:18,720
focus.
And so the guys that run staging

1498
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:21,600
or focused on staging, the guys
that run transportation because

1499
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,920
there's trucking and busing,
they're they're focused on that.

1500
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:27,840
You know, the guys that run
audio, video lighting.

1501
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,920
And that's where it works.
You know, if you hodgepodge and

1502
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,200
kind of all of a sudden have, if
you make it wherever I have to

1503
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:37,760
go, sell everything, you lose
the focus and you lose the

1504
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:40,920
uniqueness of what it is.
And these were all separate

1505
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:45,040
entities before the roll up, you
know, to kind of help build a

1506
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:48,960
better support system over them,
you know, so if they're all

1507
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:51,800
successful by themselves, you
know, don't bring them together

1508
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,920
and make them unprofitable
through consolidation.

1509
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:58,120
So it sounds.
Like a completely genuine sort

1510
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:02,120
of organic way of combining
companies where it's like, OK,

1511
01:24:02,440 --> 01:24:07,440
you know, everyone is spending X
percent of your, your profits on

1512
01:24:07,480 --> 01:24:11,760
these six or seven things.
Let's just create this entity

1513
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:15,120
that does those six or seven
things extremely well and really

1514
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,200
efficiently.
Because like even things like

1515
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,360
marketing, you know, if you're
buying one ad, it's $100.

1516
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:23,280
If you're buying 10 ads, it's
$900.

1517
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:28,000
If you're buying 1000 ads that
you know, the discount goes much

1518
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:32,480
heavier at that point and it
becomes, you know, much more

1519
01:24:32,480 --> 01:24:35,000
efficient.
And that's, and that's exactly

1520
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:36,240
the situation.
I mean that's it.

1521
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:41,680
What it's done is it's given a
platform and that's been the the

1522
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:44,000
things that have been M&A have
been very strategic and they've

1523
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,720
been things that have culturally
aligned overlapping customers,

1524
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:53,040
geographies very specifically,
you know on products.

1525
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,200
You know, this thing is in this
business and does this really

1526
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,760
well and isn't just another one
of these.

1527
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:02,880
And you know, then it's created
that back of house platform to

1528
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:05,440
sit there and you know, because
it's, you know, if, if I'm going

1529
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:08,240
to weigh out, am I going to do
more marketing and try to like

1530
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,880
contribute more to the employee,
you know, plan or am I going to

1531
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,000
try to buy this CapEx?
Like you're weighing all these

1532
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,280
things out as an entrepreneur.
And so I think what it's allowed

1533
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:19,640
is it's allowed to go, OK, hey,
I've got that back of house

1534
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:22,360
thing.
We can help look at CapEx as a

1535
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:25,360
company, you know, in a better
volume and how we approach that.

1536
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,000
And then I can be focused on the
stuff that I'm really good at

1537
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:33,720
and go take care of my customer.
And, and your integration ends

1538
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:37,400
up being a little bit more
smooth because, you know, you're

1539
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:40,320
not trying to be like, I'm just
going to keep buying and, you

1540
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,160
know, buying lighting companies.
And now I need to try to figure

1541
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,880
out how to smack all this
inventory together, you know,

1542
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:49,280
and everybody's distros and
lights and and trusses and, you

1543
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:50,800
know, soccer links are
different.

1544
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,600
Yeah, You know, it's funny, I
one of the, I was, I'm old

1545
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:59,880
enough to have been at the
beginning stages of PRG, part of

1546
01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:01,800
all of that.
I didn't work for PRG, but I

1547
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:05,160
worked for their suppliers and
was very close with some of the

1548
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,720
companies they were buying,
including Bash and Vanco and

1549
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,640
Cinema Services and all the
early companies that they

1550
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:15,120
bought.
And watching it all and knowing

1551
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:18,200
all of the people running those
companies and now part of the

1552
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:22,240
management team at PRGI got to
see so many of the problems that

1553
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:24,400
happened.
And it was things like, you

1554
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:27,720
know, at the time, Studio Color
was, was the hot moving wash

1555
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:31,360
light and really the only good
alternative to AVL 5 at the

1556
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:35,080
time.
And so they were being used on a

1557
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:37,280
lot of television shows and
they'd ship them in from

1558
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:40,960
multiple locations in for a big
TV shoot somewhere.

1559
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:45,160
And I worked for high end at the
time and I'd get the call from

1560
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,120
the LD saying these lights are
shit.

1561
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:49,640
What's wrong?
Well, they're all different

1562
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:51,960
color temperatures, you know,
because they came from 4

1563
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,840
different locations with
different lamp lights and you

1564
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:59,520
know, so you had one with 100
hours on it and one with 1000

1565
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,360
hours on it and, and it looked
yellow compared to the one with

1566
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:07,200
100 hours, right.
So, you know, problems like

1567
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:09,840
that, they just didn't know what
they didn't know.

1568
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,920
Different casing, different
cabling, different clamping,

1569
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,200
different, all the
infrastructure was different.

1570
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:19,760
And so they really learned early
on that infrastructure is very

1571
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,680
expensive and it's also can be
very problematic when it comes

1572
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:27,480
to putting a show together.
You know, if you have 4

1573
01:27:27,480 --> 01:27:31,480
different case types going out
on tour, you know that that

1574
01:27:31,480 --> 01:27:34,520
doesn't make a lot of sense.
You know loading trucks is

1575
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:37,640
pretty inefficient, so.
Now we, I mean, we literally

1576
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:41,560
spent, you know, a couple hours
in a meeting today of us looking

1577
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:44,080
at our case infrastructure,
because obviously right now we

1578
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:46,000
have two companies that can
share that.

1579
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,040
And so any decision we make
moving forward, we want to make

1580
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:51,880
sure we're doing it under that
idea of how can this be?

1581
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:54,120
You know, we don't want to be a
situation where we're

1582
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:56,680
transferring gear all the time,
but we won't be able to share it

1583
01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:58,760
and make sure it matches when
that happens.

1584
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:03,240
But you're right, like you and
I'm, and I'm watching Claire do

1585
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,920
it, you know, they're, they had
finally kind of gotten it.

1586
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,640
Everything aligned and, and got
MD integrated and Shoko was

1587
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:11,720
integrated and all that.
And then COVID happened.

1588
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:13,680
Now they're buying all these and
you know, now it's that same

1589
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,200
thing of all right.
Now we're spending money back on

1590
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:17,720
integration.
You know it would get that

1591
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,320
packaging right?
You mentioned sharing and it was

1592
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:24,560
another really funny,
interesting, sad PRG story in

1593
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:29,280
the early days of PRG.
But they went from everyone

1594
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:32,800
having your own inventory and
using your own inventory to

1595
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:36,120
forcing everyone basically to
use each other's inventory.

1596
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:40,280
And so I would get like, for
example, potentially A

1597
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:45,760
discounted rate if I had Vanco
in Orlando and I was renting

1598
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,800
from Cinema Services in Las
Vegas.

1599
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:52,480
But to ship it across the
country made it more expensive

1600
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:55,040
than just renting it locally
from my competitor.

1601
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:57,800
And they wouldn't let you rent
it locally from your competitor.

1602
01:28:57,800 --> 01:28:59,640
You had to rent it from somebody
in the group.

1603
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,840
And so I just remember having,
did you know Marty Nerudin?

1604
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:09,040
God rest his soul.
So Marty I was was Marty's last

1605
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,200
manager and Marty was just such
a great guy.

1606
01:29:12,440 --> 01:29:15,920
Yeah, Marty was an amazing guy,
but I used to sit for hours

1607
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:18,280
consoling Marty over these types
of topics.

1608
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:22,400
Like Marty's, like these people,
they won't let me rent lights

1609
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:26,920
from Christie down the block,
and I'm paying $200 to ship them

1610
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:31,200
across the country when I could
rent them for 75, you know, and

1611
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:35,440
he was right.
But you know, again, it's just

1612
01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:37,680
problems that you've never had
before that you got to find

1613
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,040
solutions, solutions for on the
fly.

1614
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:43,640
You know, and you know, one of
the other questions I had from

1615
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:47,280
you is I, and you know, again,
you can tell me none of my

1616
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:51,840
business, but I'm curious when
you guys are rolling companies

1617
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:58,440
into this group, are you
retaining the former owners?

1618
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:01,440
And are they being retained as
part owners still or are they

1619
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:04,080
just being retained as managers
or part of the group?

1620
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:09,880
Or how does that all work?
You know, and as far as as

1621
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,680
everybody's kind of their deal
is their deal, but the yeah,

1622
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:18,400
everybody that has been in this
the look, the goal that is, is

1623
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:21,960
people that are that are excited
and want to do it.

1624
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,320
So like, you know, Loud and
clear came in recently.

1625
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,960
Bill Deavers is a close friend
of Jim's, does a lot of

1626
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:33,040
production management stuff and
Bill is gung ho and on and every

1627
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:35,080
day.
I mean, I've literally have been

1628
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:38,400
like trying to plan the next,
hey, we need to all sit down and

1629
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:40,640
look through like fixed assets
in your shop.

1630
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:43,320
And Bill's like, OK, well, this
week I'm here and then I'm on

1631
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:45,480
this cruise ship doing this gig
and then I'm doing this and

1632
01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:47,480
like, you know, I'm like, all
right, well, Bill, at some

1633
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,440
point, yeah, let me know.
No, it's.

1634
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:53,680
And none of this is that this is
very much of what is the

1635
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:57,520
platform to help people go focus
on where they want to be AT.

1636
01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:59,800
And and Bill is a fantastic
example.

1637
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:04,840
There's a 340 Productions, which
is a producing team that is

1638
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:06,200
here.
They do tour production.

1639
01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:10,000
Brian and Ryan Zito is now part
of that group.

1640
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,280
Incredible people.
This is literally how can we

1641
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:17,160
support you with the back of
house and those guys have just

1642
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:20,120
been crushing it, you know, and
they're you know, they're

1643
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:24,920
younger than I am and I'm
youngish and they're you know,

1644
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,320
it's just to give them.
Let's take some pressure off of

1645
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:30,200
you to for you to go focus on
makes you exceptional.

1646
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:34,040
Yeah, Yeah, that makes that
makes a huge amount of sense

1647
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:39,080
because I, I've been around a
lot of these roll ups and it's

1648
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:42,480
like a thing that happens to
most founders, you know, who

1649
01:31:42,480 --> 01:31:47,200
have been building this business
for the last 20 to 50 years in

1650
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:50,560
some cases, right?
And they suddenly don't know

1651
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:53,000
what to do with themselves
because someone else has taken

1652
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:57,440
over their company and they are
the genius who knows everything

1653
01:31:57,440 --> 01:31:59,480
about their company, but now
they're not being asked how to

1654
01:31:59,480 --> 01:32:02,960
run it anymore.
Or they're even worse, they

1655
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:04,960
disagree with how it's being run
now.

1656
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:07,800
You're doing this.
These are the people that are

1657
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,640
the reason you're wanting to do
it, So why would you not?

1658
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,000
Yeah, include them.
Want these people involved?

1659
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:15,800
Yeah, makes a ton of sense.
It makes a ton of sense.

1660
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:18,960
This company is, it doesn't
matter if it was us or anybody,

1661
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,800
this company is attractive
because of these people like,

1662
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:26,200
you know, getting and, and
there's ones that, you know, in

1663
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:30,280
all honesty, like, you know,
I've they've I've seen some of

1664
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:32,520
these things that have gotten
thrown the way.

1665
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:35,320
And there was one of them were
like it.

1666
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:39,840
The two founders are here and
they at Max want a two year, you

1667
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:42,640
know, they want to stay two
years, you know, but would like

1668
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,120
to be here less like
immediately, like into the

1669
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,360
circular filing cabinet because
like, you know, OK, so

1670
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:50,680
everything that worked for your
company, that made you where you

1671
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:54,880
want to get to where you're
looking to do this goes away.

1672
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:57,600
It it doesn't matter how good
your succession planning is.

1673
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:01,040
So I mean, it's really about
this is, you know, this is a

1674
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:05,040
founder LED company with a whole
bunch of entrepreneur founders.

1675
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:08,000
When you look at the guys that
are running these divisions that

1676
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,080
I just am very happy and lucky
to get to, you know, be able to

1677
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:13,640
be a part of that is working
with other founders and

1678
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:16,600
entrepreneurs.
And it's just a platform for

1679
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:19,960
entrepreneurs and founders to
give them that launchpad to be,

1680
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:22,400
you know, successful.
That's that's amazing.

1681
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:27,320
I love that approach.
You know, again, I've like, I've

1682
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:30,880
been on the other side where
I've heard calls from both

1683
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:34,120
people, like from the company
that bought the the company and

1684
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:37,320
from the former owner, both
saying the other side's an

1685
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,160
asshole or the other side has no
clue what they're doing or the

1686
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,760
other side, you know, lied to me
or the other side, whatever.

1687
01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:48,160
And it's, it's always sad to me
when it comes to that point

1688
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:51,880
because it almost reminds me of
someone who like has decided

1689
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:53,640
they can't raise their kids
anymore.

1690
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:57,000
So they should really give them
to, you know, their brother or

1691
01:33:57,000 --> 01:33:59,160
their sister to raise their kids
for them.

1692
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:03,120
And then, you know, both sides
end up hating each other,

1693
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:05,240
whatever.
Like the parents should still be

1694
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:08,440
in the kids lives and you know,
you should support the new

1695
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:12,160
parents who you've given up your
kid to raise or whatever.

1696
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:15,000
But I don't know, it's just it's
a complicated situation.

1697
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:16,920
It always is.
So the better you can treat

1698
01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:19,440
those founders, I think the
better off you are.

1699
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:22,920
Yeah, and it's, I mean, look,
it's they, I don't take it

1700
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,280
lightly.
I have through multiple

1701
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:28,200
companies have have been
involved with people like this

1702
01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:31,480
and have been very lucky to kind
of learn what works and what

1703
01:34:31,480 --> 01:34:35,000
doesn't.
And you don't take lightly this

1704
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,800
person has built this business
and has this value on it.

1705
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,680
And you know, you see that deals
and how sometimes people value

1706
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:42,400
it if you know, I've got this
sweat equity in it.

1707
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:46,440
But even when they're realistic,
you know, it's still you have to

1708
01:34:46,440 --> 01:34:50,280
go in and be respectful and
careful because, you know, I,

1709
01:34:50,440 --> 01:34:53,160
you know, in all honesty, I'm
playing with house money.

1710
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:55,480
Like that's been my comment.
I always joke about that.

1711
01:34:55,480 --> 01:34:59,240
Like, you know, it's easy to
work for a company and not have

1712
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:01,840
to, you know, there's only been
a few times in my life where

1713
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:04,520
I've had to like pull money from
my account for payroll.

1714
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:08,080
You know, in the tour sound VR
days, you know, we were kind of

1715
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:09,920
getting started.
You know, for the most part,

1716
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:12,280
I've always been able to work
off somebody else's.

1717
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:16,000
So I try to be really respectful
of, you know, when I go and be

1718
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:17,280
like, well, we got to get rid of
all this stuff.

1719
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:20,440
You know, it's all junk.
Like, well, man, I that did a

1720
01:35:20,440 --> 01:35:22,160
gig and I bought that and I paid
for that.

1721
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:24,680
Like, you know, you got to, you
got to be careful about how you

1722
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:26,760
approach these conversations.
Absolutely no.

1723
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:29,000
Absolutely.
So I heard your daughter's

1724
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:31,440
getting married.
My daughter's getting married.

1725
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:32,520
Yeah.
Next June.

1726
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:34,520
In Cape.
Yep.

1727
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,920
In Cape Cod.
Nobody will give me a budget.

1728
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:41,400
Like, they just keep.
I just keep asking.

1729
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:42,680
I keep, they keep laughing at
it.

1730
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:46,120
So, you know, so we'll see.
How this goes?

1731
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:48,320
Yikes.
I'm like, I've had I've had

1732
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:51,360
customers that do the same thing
to me, guys like I and sales

1733
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:52,640
people.
I know where this is going.

1734
01:35:52,720 --> 01:35:55,720
Yeah, well, I always love.
I always love when you ask a

1735
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:58,080
customer, you know, what's your
budget and they say, well, I

1736
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:01,120
don't really have one.
OK, well then it's half a

1737
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:03,800
million and they go, well,
that's way too much.

1738
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:05,840
Then you do have a budget.
Everybody has a budget.

1739
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:08,960
Yeah, exactly.
Of course.

1740
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:10,960
You just don't want to be the
first one to put the number out

1741
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:12,480
usually, right?
Yeah.

1742
01:36:12,720 --> 01:36:14,480
So that's going to be cool.
Is that your?

1743
01:36:14,480 --> 01:36:16,040
That's your first getting
married then?

1744
01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:17,480
That is my first getting
married.

1745
01:36:17,480 --> 01:36:20,680
She just turned 25.
She's been with this guy for

1746
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:21,960
four years.
Cool.

1747
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,320
He's a super nice guy.
Super excited for them.

1748
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,280
That's helpful.
And he's not in our industry.

1749
01:36:26,640 --> 01:36:29,120
He's not in our industry.
And he's not in private equity.

1750
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:32,440
He's not in private equity.
And hopefully he's not a lawyer

1751
01:36:32,440 --> 01:36:35,120
either.
Not a lawyer.

1752
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:36,400
All right, good.
Then you're safe.

1753
01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:39,440
I think you know, everything
else is OK.

1754
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:49,680
So what's what's your motto?
I, you know, this, Sarah asked

1755
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:50,840
me this.
And I was sitting there thinking

1756
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:52,520
about it, and it's kind of been
all those things.

1757
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:54,920
And I, you know, I wish I had
something catchy like John

1758
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:56,400
McBride.
You know, either you rock or you

1759
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:57,280
suck.
That's pretty.

1760
01:36:57,480 --> 01:36:59,560
That is a good.
One pretty known 1.

1761
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:03,320
You know, I think honestly for
mine, it's just for me, it's

1762
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:06,760
more of I'm trying to be much
more authentic and kind every

1763
01:37:06,760 --> 01:37:11,360
year that goes by.
You know, I've, you can like me

1764
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:12,960
or not, this is kind of who I
am.

1765
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,840
I try to be fair, but I think
the biggest thing that I'm

1766
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:18,720
trying to, it's the thing I
judge my parenting by since we

1767
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:21,280
were just talking about my
daughter, you know, if I have

1768
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:24,120
somebody that comes up to me and
talks about how kind and nice

1769
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:26,760
and respectful my kids are, then
I've done a good job.

1770
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:28,120
Everything else is so I.
Love that.

1771
01:37:28,440 --> 01:37:30,840
And that's really where I just
want to be like, I want to be

1772
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:34,640
people of, you know, am I kind?
Do I take care of people?

1773
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:38,160
Am I trying to be, you know,
this is who I am in my fair.

1774
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:41,200
That's that's kind of where
that's my motto right now in

1775
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:43,760
life is just to be that.
Well, and the higher you get up

1776
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:46,960
the food chain in a business,
the harder it is to be

1777
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,840
remembered or recognized as that
person because you are hiring

1778
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:53,360
people, you're firing people,
you're making decisions that

1779
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:55,520
aren't always the most popular
decisions.

1780
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:59,160
You know, you're always the one
who gets uninvited to the most

1781
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:02,960
things because, yeah, he's mean,
you know, or he's this or that.

1782
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:05,720
And you know, I'm.
I'm one of the kindest, most

1783
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:10,280
loyal, most giving people that
there possibly ever was walking

1784
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:12,920
this earth.
I give away my time every day

1785
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:18,480
way too much to the point where
my fiance now says, you know,

1786
01:38:18,480 --> 01:38:21,080
that I I'm crazy.
Like, you know, you got to be

1787
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:22,640
careful.
You're always out of time.

1788
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:26,080
You're always too busy for
everything, you know, and it's

1789
01:38:26,080 --> 01:38:28,000
true.
Like, you know, if you asked me

1790
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:31,680
right now, hey, can you spend
the next two hours explaining me

1791
01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:34,840
to me how to incorporate AI in,
in my life?

1792
01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:38,200
I would absolutely do it if you
said, you know, tomorrow can we

1793
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:39,280
meet?
I want to talk to you about

1794
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:42,280
something that I'm stuck with
right now that I think you might

1795
01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:45,080
be able to help on done.
You know, I'd do it in a minute.

1796
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:49,680
And so, you know, but like I
said, the higher you get up the

1797
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:52,720
food chain, it's easy when
you're an account exec or

1798
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:56,320
something to, to be loved by
everyone, especially if you've

1799
01:38:56,320 --> 01:39:00,760
got an expense account, but you
know, to be the CEO or the top,

1800
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:06,040
the president, the even CEO and,
and be loved by everyone.

1801
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:08,160
That's that's an accomplishment.
That's big.

1802
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:12,320
No, and it's and, and, and trust
me, I'm aware that like I, I in

1803
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:15,720
my role, it is not going to be
I'm everybody's bad cop for

1804
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,240
conversations.
You know, that's how it is.

1805
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:20,760
It is.
And so I think that's why for me

1806
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:25,120
now, it's a much more conscious
piece of this of I know that

1807
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:27,320
that's going to be a thing in
life and it's just continue

1808
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:29,000
every year to become more and
more a thing.

1809
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:33,440
So I have to work really hard to
yes, that's, that's who I am.

1810
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:36,080
But I'm, you know, a good, I'm
try to be a good person, try to

1811
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:40,760
be a kind person.
Love that and with that, I think

1812
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:43,840
we shall say goodbye because I
know you probably have other

1813
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:45,760
things to do and I certainly do
as well.

1814
01:39:46,440 --> 01:39:48,360
Awesome.
Please, if you happen to run

1815
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:53,520
into into the big cheese, let
him know I said hello and he's

1816
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,600
been on the podcast as well and
just somebody I really

1817
01:39:56,600 --> 01:39:59,600
appreciate and and admire.
So OK.

1818
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:00,880
Awesome.
I absolutely will.

1819
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:03,560
Good, good luck to you guys.
I love the company, I love the

1820
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:07,000
brand, I love the name and I
love what you're doing and I

1821
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:10,800
love that it's still, you know,
independently owned.

1822
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:14,280
It's a cool thing.
Not that again, I'm not against

1823
01:40:14,280 --> 01:40:16,840
private equity.
I think it's necessary and in a

1824
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:20,880
lot of certain examples, but I
love when people can stay

1825
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:22,360
independent as well.
So.

1826
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:25,120
So yeah, cool.
Thank you for doing this.

1827
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,320
I appreciate it very much.
Enjoyed it.

1828
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:29,360
All right, see you later.