#312 - Scott Fisher - Pirate ships, automation systems, construction, collaboration and experiences

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Treasure Island is probably the
most concentrated educational

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experience I've had in my life
because while we were building

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the pirate ships and all the
automation systems for the ships

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and special effects and all the
other stuff, we were building

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the building.
So I didn't know anything about

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construction really.
And pouring concrete and running

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conduit and you know, all of the
things you have got to know to,

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to build a casino.
But I've been put in that

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position to basically help
manage all of that out front.

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And so, you know, I grabbed
basically the heads of the

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departments for the the plumbers
and electricians and, you know,

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the concrete guys and like,
look, I don't know anything

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about what you guys do, but I'm
going to, I'm going to show up

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here in five months with two
giant ships and they got to have

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a place to go.
Well, hello and thanks for

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joining me again on another
great episode of Geese of Gear.

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I guess you'll determine whether
it's great or not, but I think

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based on today's guest, you're
going to be pretty happy and

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probably it'll be quite
enjoyable.

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So what do I want to talk about
today?

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Of course, AI, you know, AI
obviously making huge

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advancements.
It's hard to keep up.

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Like every week somebody else is
leading the charge.

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One interesting piece of news
this past week is that there was

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this huge battle with open AI
where they were not so open.

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They were taking basically a
not-for-profit company and

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turning it into a for profit
company.

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And Elon, who was one of the
founders of Open AI, was against

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this.
So he started a lawsuit against

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Sam Altman and against the
company to stop that from

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happening.
And eventually they stopped.

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So just as of I think last week,
Open AI now is no longer going

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to become a for profit company.
They are going to remain a

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not-for-profit, and I'm not sure
what that does to their value or

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to their profitability or to
their shareholder wealth or

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anything, but it's an
interesting move.

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I don't know if they just kind
of backpedaled because it was

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becoming impossible or for some
other reason.

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Maybe they just became really
good people all of a sudden and

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changed their mind.
I will say that until about a

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month ago, I wasn't really using
ChatGPT very much.

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I was using Grok more and it was
because I just liked the way

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that it responded.
I liked the way that it helped

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write things.
You know, I don't, I don't use

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anything written by AI
completely, but I will

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collaborate with AI on it.
And so, you know, I, I just

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liked Grok better.
And then recently I've really

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found actually ChatGPT to have
gotten a lot better than it used

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to be, both for those
collaborating writing jobs or

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research jobs, or I use it a lot
for strategy.

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Like here's what I'm thinking
with my business or with this

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situation or with this solution.
What do you think?

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And you come up with some
really, really great solutions

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by doing that.
And so, yeah, I've used chat

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GBTA lot.
The other thing is ChatGPT now

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really does a good job with
images.

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So if you're doing a slide deck
or you're doing something

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internally with your team or
whatever, and you need some

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simple images, you know, I might
not make my all my marketing

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images or something through
ChatGPT, but if you need

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something relatively simple and
quick, it's pretty good at it.

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Or if you need to edit an image
that you already have, let's say

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you have a picture of a car and
you want to make it.

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They used an example where they
turned, I don't remember What

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Car it was, but they turned it
into a convertible and it did a

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really good job of that.
However, yesterday I was showing

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it to someone who is trying to
learn.

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He's a 71 year old guy trying to
learn how to use AI.

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And I was over at his house just
having coffee and he said we'll

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take a picture of my wife and
put an ice cream cone in her

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hand.
Show me if you can do that.

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And I did that and it did a
really good job except that she

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had three hands.
So it was really funny because

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the hand that when she was
holding the ice cream cone in

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had her original hand and then
this new one with the ice cream

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cone, they both had the exact
same ring on the finger.

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It was really wild like.
So you know, again, AI is not

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going to be perfect.
One of the problems you'll see

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is lying or making up answers,
which they call hallucinations

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in the AI world.
I just call it lying or making

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shit up and but you know, that
can be problematic, so you don't

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want to just use everything it
writes.

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Anyways, I've been using Chat
GPTA lot more and one of the

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things I've learned is this
thing called the Socratic

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method.
And many of you listening are

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probably smarter than me and
you'll know what that is.

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I didn't know.
So what that involves is a lot

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of question asking as opposed to
just telling it do this for me.

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So I will say, you know, I'm
looking to create this plan and

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what kind of questions do you
need to ask me in order to move

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forward with this plan as well
informed as you can possibly be

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to help me.
And so the answers you get and

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the results and the the plan
that you'll get from that versus

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just telling it to do it is
unbelievable.

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Like it is so much better.
You know, it's almost like using

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the Socratic method when you're
talking to your employees or

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your children, like your kid
does something wrong and and

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they come in with the sad face
on and am I grounded, daddy?

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And you say, well, what do you
think?

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Do you think you should be
grounded?

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Tell me what I should do.
You know, those types of things.

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And so if you haven't done it
and you're using Chachi BT or

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Grok or whatever it is, you're
using Gemini, Claude and

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etcetera, because they keep
popping up, but whatever you're

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using, just type into it and
say, hey, can you tell me how I

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might use the Socratic method of
prompting?

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And I think you're going to find
some really, really great

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results from that.
So try.

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It's a cool little hack.
I like it a lot.

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And what else?
Of course, I've told you a few

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times that I'm building
something with AI right now.

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That's very cool.
I'm not going to tell you too

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many details, but I will tell
you that it is a very advanced,

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very necessary platform for
cross rentals that is going to

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just really democratize access,
democratize access to global

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inventory, global gear that
currently is very fragmented.

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It's very just, it's kind of the
Wild West out there.

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Like, you know, if you're
looking for cross rental gear

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for a big tour or something, it
is so hard to find things.

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You got to make 1000 phone
calls.

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We're really changing that.
So believe it or not, we're

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going to be launching pretty
quickly, probably early July.

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I hope we might even be
launching sort of a 1/2 version

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of it just so that we can share
it with some people in the

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background within the next few
weeks.

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But we've been working on it for
a while.

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I've been envisioning this thing
since probably 2006 or 7.

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So I hope you'll support it.
I hope you'll like it.

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I hope you'll appreciate the
effort and the the science that

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we've put into this thing.
But it is very heavily reliant

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on especially agentic AI agents
that we've built to really do

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all of that work for you, to
find that gear for you so that

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you don't have to do it
yourself.

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And so I'm pretty excited about
that.

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I have learned a lot on that
journey.

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Obviously, I've learned a lot
about AI, about how to basically

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launch an AI platform, what the
costs are.

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So, you know, every time you do
something on ChatGPT, someone

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somewhere is paying for that
server time.

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And of course, Open AI has many
hundreds of billions of dollars

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that they've raised in order to
do this.

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We don't.
So that comes at a cost that

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we're looking at pretty hard
right now and figuring out what

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the business model looks like
and stuff, which we know.

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But anyways, yeah, I hope you'll
support it.

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We're going to be launching more
information soon.

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If you want to talk to me about
it, just reach out to me.

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By the way, one of the best ways
to reach me if you ever want to

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have a meeting with me or sit in
my office and just chitchat or

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have me look at something in
your business or whatever it is.

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Our platform that we operate,
our company, our virtual

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platform is Rome.
And so it's RO dot AM slash

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Marcel.
That's my calendar.

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So if you ever want access to my
calendar to book a meeting

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directly into it without even
asking me, go ahead.

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RO dot AM slash Marcel.
That's how you get to my

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calendar.
So today's guest is a good one

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and they all are.
I love all of our guests, but

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today's guest is really super
interesting.

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Former President and CEO at
Fisher Technical Services, of

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course that's Scott Fisher.
Scott is the founder and former

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CEO of Fisher Technical Services
FTSI, where he developed the

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industry changing navigator
control system for live

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entertainment and film
automation.

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After merging FTSI with Tate,
Scott shifted focus to motion

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control and stunt rigging for
major feature films.

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With decades of experience
across touring, themed

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attractions and cinema, Scott
brings deep insight into the

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intersection of technology and
storytelling.

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So I am hoping he's going to
want to do some storytelling

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today.
And here you go, Scott Fischer,

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how are you?
I'm great good ladies and

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gentlemen, it's Scott Fischer.
So it, it's funny when people

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have done as many things as
you've done at the level that

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you've done them.
And I've been in this industry,

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I hate to say 35 years, but I
don't know you, you know, and I

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don't even know if I've met you
at a trade show or anything like

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I, I really don't know you.
I didn't know who did the things

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that that we're going to talk
about.

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And now I know that that's you
obviously.

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So between not knowing you and
between and and also not knowing

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much about automation, which is
where you've spent much of your

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career.
I'm really looking forward to to

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learning here today.
So thanks first and foremost for

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taking some time to come on.
My pleasure.

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Yeah.
And so a lot of the people I get

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on this podcast are, are very
public and, you know, call it

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even braggy.
Some people, you know, where

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every day they're posting
Instagram pictures of look at

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the rig I did today, look at the
thing I designed yesterday, Look

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at the thing I designed last
week, which is great.

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I mean, in our industry, it's a
very visual industry.

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People love scrolling through
lighting images on on Instagram

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or whatever.
And you're, you're really not,

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you know, like I went looking
through your call it socials and

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there's just nothing out there.
There's not much going on.

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Yeah, I kind of, I take the
behind the scenes thing

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seriously, I guess.
Yeah, try to keep on relatively

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low profile and let the gears be
for itself I guess.

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Yeah, yeah, no.
And and there's nothing wrong

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with that.
And and you know, we'll get into

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some of the stuff you've done
and the projects that you've

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been involved in are just mind
blowing.

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Like if anyone could brag, I
think it's you.

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So, you know, I like to kind of
go in the way back machine and,

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and talk about how people got
into the industry because sure,

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so many people, believe it or
not, who've listened to this

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podcast are young people who are
just entering the industry and

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they want to hear from, you
know, it's called geezers of

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gear because I'd say a good 60%
of our, our guests are, are call

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it 50 plus and, and.
I can order off the senior menu

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now.
OK.

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And yeah, yeah, I'm almost
there.

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I'm almost at the senior menu
but I'm not quite there yet so.

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Maybe I'll get a fake ID in the
opposite direction of what we

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did when we were kids.
Right?

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Get a fake ID that says that I'm
old enough to order off the

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senior menu and get the senior
discount in hotels in two days.

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Podcast is proudly brought to
you by ETC.

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For 50 years, ETC has made a
name for itself in much more

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than the theatre world.
ETC.

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Lighting, rigging and control
technology has scaled not only

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across the entire globe, but
also to nearly any building size

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and type you could possibly
imagine.

225
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,760
Broadway shows, rock concerts,
sports stadiums, outdoor parks,

226
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,200
TV studios, convention centers,
you name it, have all trusted

227
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,440
ETC to make their design
beautiful and their spaces safe.

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00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,760
A big part of that trust comes
from ET CS renowned customer

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00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,960
support.
The global 24/7 tech support

230
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,000
team stands behind every ETC
product, whether you're in the

231
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,880
middle of tech, on a high school
theater production, or

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00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,000
scheduling a light show on the
facade of an iconic building.

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00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,640
ET CS support has always been
incredibly responsive and

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00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,040
helpful, but now employees have
even more of a personal stake in

235
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,800
maintaining that reputation.
The company company has become

236
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,520
100% employee owned.
Each person building the

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00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,000
fixtures, developing the control
software, and picking up support

238
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,840
calls is an owner at ETC.
Outstanding support, reliable

239
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,320
products, innovative technology.
This is the foundation of

240
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,280
excellence that ETC has built.
Over the past 50 years.

241
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:17,720
So anyways, how did you get into
this industry?

242
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,840
How did you get started?
Did you go to school for it?

243
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,680
Did you just fall into it?
I didn't go to school for it.

244
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,520
I was, I was on the stage crew
in high school and loved it.

245
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,200
Like there was like all I wanted
to do, but I didn't think that

246
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,040
was a real job because, you
know, I didn't know anybody who

247
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,480
did it.
Nobody in my family did it.

248
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,880
I didn't know him.
You know, that had no entry into

249
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,240
it.
So I went to school for the

250
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,800
logical engineering instead,
thinking that would get me a

251
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,280
real job.
But to pay for school, I was

252
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:52,200
doing stagehand work, like on
the weekends and 10 nights in,

253
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,320
you know, the greater
Philadelphia area, I guess

254
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,880
Atlantic City, Wilmington,
Philly, Baltimore, around there,

255
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,920
unloading trucks, running the
spotlight, you know, whatever,

256
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,320
whatever they had going that
paid money.

257
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,840
So you just, you went out and
like met up with the lighting

258
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,080
companies or whatever.
And yeah, I just went and said

259
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,280
hey.
Done for hire.

260
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,520
Pretty much like, you know,
focused in on aligning Lecos and

261
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,840
that kind of stuff, you know, at
night for aligning, you know,

262
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,040
that kind of old school I guess
sort of stuff.

263
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,240
Doing that today is probably a
little bit harder, right?

264
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,440
Like I think most of the
companies are a lot more

265
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,680
corporate.
There's an HR department

266
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,920
involved, there's possibly
private equity owners who they.

267
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,400
Want to see a degree and they
want to see.

268
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,720
Liability adverse, you know,
call it.

269
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,240
So you probably can't just show
up in T-shirts and blue jeans or

270
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,160
whatever and get a gig from any
old company these days as easily

271
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,880
as you used to do it back in our
day, I guess.

272
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,080
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.

273
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,120
So you just started out doing
odd gigs and and you were

274
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,440
planning on being an electrical
engineer?

275
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,960
Yeah, basically.
And today's podcast is brought

276
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279
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280
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281
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286
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287
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291
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:07,000
Oh, I got a job at Bally's in
Atlantic City on the stage crew

292
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,480
there.
And Steve Wynn had just sold

293
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,319
that to Bally's.
It used to be the Golden Nugget.

294
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,960
And he sold that partially to
finance the construction of The

295
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,040
Mirage in Vegas.
So he took a bunch of people

296
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,359
with him when he went to Vegas.
And some of those people were in

297
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,480
the entertainment department and
they were in the process of

298
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,520
putting up the Sigfred and Roy
show there and quickly found

299
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,280
that the technical level of that
show was more than your average

300
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,680
stage end on hand.
And one of my friends mentioned

301
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,840
to the entertainment director,
hey, we know this kid back in

302
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,920
the Atlantic City just got his
degree, chose up to work on

303
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,080
time, give him a call.
And I get this random phone call

304
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,080
from the entertainment director
going, do you want a job?

305
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,080
You know, largely undefined.
Basically, it's just that I'm

306
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,160
weird.
I'm like, sure, like white

307
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,080
tigers.
That sounds fun.

308
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,280
And then like, when can you be
there?

309
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,480
And I'm like could start driving
tomorrow.

310
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,200
Wow.
So I drove from Jersey to Vegas

311
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,600
without anywhere to live or
anything to do and didn't know

312
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,440
what the job description really
was but showed up and started

313
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,680
working.
That was my.

314
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,280
That's pretty wild, especially
from from Vegas.

315
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,040
Like, you know, you'd think that
in Vegas they'd be able to find

316
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,920
a person to do that, but I guess
because there was at least a

317
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,480
perceived skill.
Set match, perhaps right at the

318
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,360
time the, the, the center of
technology was Broadway because

319
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,960
you had Santa, but the opera,
you had Starlight Express, you

320
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,840
had all the big Angel and Weber
stuff going on.

321
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,560
And and in fact, the the
companies that came out to build

322
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,720
the first Vegas shows were
Broadway companies Show Tank and

323
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,840
and at the time ECT S that which
became PRG were in Vegas

324
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,560
basically bringing the
technology with them right and

325
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,280
the people.
Yeah, I remember that.

326
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,480
Like I I don't even remember
whether I was with Martin or

327
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,280
High end.
What year did The Mirage open?

328
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,760
Yeah, 80 beginning of 199089 was
when we were doing it in Sigrid

329
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,520
or production.
OK, so it wasn't even The Mirage

330
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,400
I I thought it was a bit later.
I thought it was 90, 5 or

331
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,360
something. 94 or 95?
Mirage.

332
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,240
I guess I'm wrong. 1990 Treasure
Island was 93.

333
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,360
OK, maybe it was.
Treasure Island, Bellagio

334
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:25,320
Bellagio was 97.
Yeah, it probably was Treasure

335
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,200
Island.
I had sold them some lights.

336
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,480
It was Treasure Island.
I had sold them some lighting.

337
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,520
And I went for the opening.
I was invited for the opening.

338
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:40,440
And I remember walking through
this nice hotel and going to my

339
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,960
room and at the same time that
the hotel opened, as I recall,

340
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,160
was it The Mirage?
I'm getting all confused now.

341
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,240
It was either The Mirage or
Treasure Island, but whichever

342
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,920
one it was, Grateful Dead were
in town that weekend during the

343
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,880
opening at the stadium at UNLV
or whatever.

344
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,160
And.
And so there were these Dead

345
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,840
heads sleeping in the hallways
of this nice brand new hotel.

346
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,000
And they were just like all
over.

347
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,880
It was sleeping bags in the
hallway.

348
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,840
So it I was stepping over these
these Grateful Dead fans that

349
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,280
were sleeping in hallways and
they were like showering in the

350
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,440
casino bathrooms, like cleaning
themselves up and stuff in

351
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,600
casino bathrooms.
It was hilarious.

352
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,000
It was so funny.
But yeah, so.

353
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,600
So that's pretty cool.
Like you get hired and brought

354
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,720
into Vegas.
I mean, as a kid living on the

355
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,920
East Coast, that must have been
like, whoa.

356
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,480
Like all your friends, like,
never been out in Jersey before

357
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,240
that, you know?
So it was really, Oh yeah, I've

358
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,520
been on an airplane before.
It was Brave New World.

359
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,680
That is crazy.
That's wild and.

360
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,320
To say it was incredibly lucky
in retrospect because that was

361
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:02,160
right at the start of the big
mega building boom of Las Vegas.

362
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,760
Yeah, so do you still, you don't
still live in Vegas, do you?

363
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,200
I do, actually.
I split my time between the East

364
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,800
Coast and Vegas, but I still
have a house there and I'm still

365
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,520
a resident of.
OK, OK, cool.

366
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,720
So from there like did did that
kind of launch, you know the big

367
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,840
part of your career I guess at
that time when.

368
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,280
Yeah.
Because, because up to that

369
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,600
point, I'd been mostly a
lighting guy.

370
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,400
Yeah.
And I have a very distinct

371
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,080
memory of of walking into the
back of the house at Sigfred and

372
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,880
Roy.
They had the dragon on stage

373
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,120
trying to program that.
And this was this big 40 foot

374
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:45,680
tall, 21 access hydraulic dragon
that breathes fire and it was

375
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,320
enormous.
And I'm like, oh, that's what I

376
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,600
want to do.
Yeah.

377
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,720
So.
So what was your gig there when

378
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,480
you weren't doing the automation
there, you were doing other?

379
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:03,000
I basically got brought out to
be a smart guy who showed up on

380
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,360
time.
Like they didn't actually have a

381
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:09,120
role for me other than my my
eventual title became Technical

382
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,640
Rover, which was basically be
anywhere on stage that something

383
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,080
is happening so that if it
breaks, you can fix it.

384
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,400
Yeah.
So that's interesting, yeah.

385
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:26,040
And, and so how did like, how
did that sort of grow into like

386
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,640
a career in Vegas basically that
created so many different

387
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,600
offshoots from it?
Yeah, I mean, the Vegas was

388
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,160
basically becoming the epicenter
of entertainment technology as

389
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,400
these big shows got, you know,
continued to push the envelope

390
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,480
of like, never been done before,
never been done before, never

391
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,000
been done before.
But I wanted to kind of gather

392
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,400
up a bunch of skills because I I
just liked the whole thing.

393
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,920
So I did Sigford and Roy for
about a year and a half and then

394
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,960
I went and did some touring
stuff with Foy for performer

395
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,280
flying.
Oh, OK.

396
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,280
I flew Paula Abdul on her tour
and then came back to Vegas and

397
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,880
was one of the project managers
for the Treasure Island

398
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,200
Buccaneer Bay Pirate battle and
then left again after that.

399
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,440
Went to work for a special
effects company that did theme

400
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,320
park stuff for a while.
The guys who did like the back

401
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,840
draft ride and the other stuff.
So I learned about flames and

402
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,040
special effects and liquid
nitrogen and explosions and

403
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,560
stuff and then came back to
Vegas and did EFX like which had

404
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,000
a huge amount of special effects
on it.

405
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,640
Right.
Yeah, I, I was in Vegas during

406
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,600
when EFX was being built and I
remember Jerry Harris and Tim

407
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,400
Brennan taking me for a like a
Grand Tour before the show had

408
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,560
launched.
And I remember there were like,

409
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,920
I think there were four lighting
programmers who were programming

410
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,200
on Compulite animators at the
time.

411
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,520
This is pre hog and and going
under the stage and seeing all

412
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,080
of this automation.
I didn't know what most of it

413
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,800
was.
I didn't know what any of it was

414
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,560
really.
But they were explaining it to

415
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,400
me and I was like whoa.
I think at the time that was

416
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,040
like the most expensive show it
was.

417
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,720
Absolutely.
That was that was probably the

418
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:18,040
first of the of the completely
open checkbook shows of like

419
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,520
they just went out to the
neighbors kind of thing.

420
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,040
And there was a series of those
typically between MGM and Win,

421
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,440
but there was a whole bunch of
money as no objects, which was

422
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,840
again, super lucky to be in that
environment at that time.

423
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,400
I mean, it felt almost like the
post World War 2 aerospace

424
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,600
industry.
It's like where you're building

425
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,040
a new jet every three weeks, you
know?

426
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,600
Yeah.
Then you come up with the SR71

427
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,680
or something and or the Saturn
5, and it's like, oh, if you

428
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,680
weren't there at that time, you
wouldn't have been involved with

429
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,000
that stuff in this or AI ride.
It felt like that.

430
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,280
Yeah, AI right now what's
happening with AI where it's

431
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,520
like just doubling itself so
quickly and they're saying like

432
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,400
within one year it's going to do
this.

433
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,920
And then it does that in four
months and then it triples again

434
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,080
in the next four months.
And you're like, what is it?

435
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,240
The speed is picking up and it's
just getting so crazy.

436
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,560
But but yeah, so I could see
that'd be a really exciting time

437
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,360
to be there.
It was.

438
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:16,760
Amazing.
Yep.

439
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,680
And so.
EFX was your introduction to

440
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,960
automation, or you were?
No synchro donor was my intro to

441
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,280
automation.
Oh, it was.

442
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,760
I was what was I that was, I
mean I was assistant type of

443
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,960
automation, I guess was my final
title OK there.

444
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,120
But running all the winches and
the hydraulics and the the big

445
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:46,440
robotic dragon and halt all the
craziness there and then kind of

446
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,800
went on to learn other stuff at
other companies then and then

447
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,440
basically start back to
automation.

448
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,880
So was that on purpose?
Like, did you did you just go,

449
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,120
oh, yeah, this is cool, I want
to do this like you.

450
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,480
You mentioned the dragon before
and, and how it was like, whoa,

451
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,200
yeah, that's what I want to do.
And that's just worked out.

452
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,360
You get to play with all of the
toys at the same time in

453
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,440
automation, like here's to
hydraulics, pneumatics,

454
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,200
electrical stuff, closed up
controls, computer controls,

455
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,520
like all of it's in the same in
that basket.

456
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,400
And you've kind of sort of know
a little about all of it.

457
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,040
Yeah.
Well, and just so many Wows, you

458
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,200
know, it's just like, you know,
having the audience in awe all

459
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,080
the time because things are
moving and and yeah, yeah,

460
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,800
that's that's pretty cool.
And so after Siegfried and Roy

461
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,160
was did you say EFX was the next
one that you got?

462
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,280
Involved For me, the next thing
was I did.

463
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,120
I did some rock'n'roll touring
and then came back to Vegas and

464
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,400
did Treasure Island.
Rock'n'roll.

465
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,400
Touring again.
Automation.

466
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,680
Yeah, winches and that kind of
stuff.

467
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:54,720
OK, performer, performer flying.
Yeah, and then Treasure Island.

468
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,200
So Treasure.
Island, the Pirate Battle and

469
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,640
the Pirate.
Battle and mysterious.

470
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,200
Show I was working for Show Tech
at the time and they had the

471
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,560
contract for both the pirate
battle and the mysterious show

472
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,120
in the theater, so I was
bouncing back and forth between

473
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,560
these two.
And so how big of a team are you

474
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,160
working on for automation at
that point?

475
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,720
Like is it 5 people?
Is it 50 people?

476
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,200
What is it?
In this in the show tech shop,

477
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,720
it was mostly the, the, the bulk
of the people were fabricators

478
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,160
like, well, there's machinists,
that kind of stuff.

479
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:38,160
The team of guys doing actual
automation, maybe 6-8 so.

480
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,760
Doing big stuff like, you know.
We never slept, basically never

481
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:43,360
went on.
Yeah.

482
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:49,920
I can't even imagine that.
So the pirate battle, like, was

483
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,520
that one of the harder things
that you had to do at that

484
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,120
point?
I, I remember there were all

485
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,800
kinds of like Steve Terry talked
about some stuff, you know, with

486
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,000
dimmer failures or something, or
I don't remember what he was.

487
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,280
Saying something, the ground,
the ground.

488
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,440
No problems with the yeah, yeah,
yeah, the GFI lights, but they

489
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,320
didn't really want to be GFI.
Well, and it it's just you don't

490
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,760
know what you don't know when,
when you're doing projects that

491
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,760
have never done been done
before, you kind of learn as you

492
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,920
go a little bit, right?
You can try and do the math as

493
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,200
much as you want, but.
Treasure Island is probably the

494
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,360
most concentrated educational
experience I've had in my life

495
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,280
because we were, while we were
building the pirate ships and

496
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,880
all the automation systems for
the ships and special effects

497
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,760
and all the other stuff we were
building the building.

498
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,280
So I didn't know anything about
construction really.

499
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,400
And pouring concrete and running
conduit and you know, all of the

500
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,200
things you have got to know to,
to build a casino, But I've been

501
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,000
put in that position to
basically help manage all of

502
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,560
that out front.
And so, you know, I grabbed

503
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,480
basement ahead to the apartments
for the, the plumbers and

504
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,720
electricians and, you know, the
concrete guys and like, look, I

505
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,280
don't know anything about what
you guys do, but I'm going to,

506
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,800
I'm going to show up here in
five months with two giant

507
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,400
ships.
And they got to have a place to

508
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,840
go.
So you got, we got to help each

509
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,720
other out here.
And they, they were great.

510
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,920
They, they kind of took me under
their wings a little bit, I

511
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,000
guess, and just basically
explained how their jobs worked

512
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,080
and what they did and what they,
what they needed.

513
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,640
And I explained to what we were
doing and what we needed to do.

514
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,800
And we were able to collaborate.
Have like, you know, the

515
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,680
electricians would get behind
and like the North End of the

516
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,200
property.
And I'd say, OK, well, I'll move

517
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,400
my guys over to the South and
we'll work there for a week

518
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,200
while you guys finish that up.
We'll swap and it's all this

519
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,400
sort of horse trading going on
in the background and I learned

520
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,760
an astonishing amount of stuff
both on our end, on the

521
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,240
entertainment end as well as the
construction and which which

522
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,880
really helped me out later doing
theme park work for Disney and

523
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,520
those guys.
I also, I read, I think it was

524
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,320
in your notes about the, the
Michael Jackson thing with

525
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,040
Treasure Island.
So what was that about So?

526
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,480
We had we had built the ships
off off the strip, not too far

527
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,680
off the Strip, but we were past
Industrial Rd.

528
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,360
If you if you know Vegas, of
course.

529
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,360
Yeah, kind of kind of back on
Wind Road.

530
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,240
And we had a big warehouse and
we actually had to cut a wall

531
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,560
out of the warehouse and knock
it out to get the ships out of

532
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,040
the which you know, but
basically we took them down

533
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,200
Tropicana over the bridge over
15 and then hung a left onto the

534
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,320
Strip.
But we had to get a lot of power

535
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,480
involved to lift power lines.
And, and you know, there's,

536
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,880
there's this enormous piece and
there's this giant crane sitting

537
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,360
in front of Treasure Island
waiting to crane it in.

538
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,360
But we did it at like 3:00 in
the morning because they had to

539
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,480
close the strip basically both
both directions and.

540
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,080
Become carrying it on like a
massive flatbed or.

541
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,120
Something big things with the
multi axle, you know, we, we, we

542
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,920
craned it into place in the
parking lot of the building onto

543
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,320
that thing.
And then they drove it over.

544
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,600
And, but because it was such an
event, Steve Wynn wanted to make

545
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,440
a little more of an event out of
it.

546
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:08,080
So him, he and Michael Jackson
rode the pirate ship down the

547
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,480
strip at 3:00 in the morning
before we craned it in.

548
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,360
So they're like up on the bow
while we're like trying to make

549
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,000
sure we don't take out any power
lines or knock down palm trees

550
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,520
or with the thing.
Bob Orr was also involved.

551
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,320
He he did most of the mechanical
design.

552
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,200
He's a legendary guy from
Imagineering in Disney.

553
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,200
Yeah.
And team teams on the ship as

554
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,560
well.
And I learned a ton working with

555
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,080
them as well at the time.
So were crowds lining the

556
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,080
streets, Like, did people know
about this?

557
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,280
It had been announced.
Yeah.

558
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,840
They.
They wasn't like, in the paper

559
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,200
or anything, but people kind of
knew.

560
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,000
And the word got out.
So yeah, there were people

561
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,960
taking pictures and on the I.
Guess, I guess when you're Steve

562
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,360
Wynn, you can just kind of call
up MJ and say.

563
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,760
Especially you can do this.
Thing, yeah.

564
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,720
MJ had been involved in the
Siegfried and Roy show.

565
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,760
He wrote the theme song and did
he loved playing with the

566
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,760
Tigers.
Forgot about that, yeah.

567
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,040
Yeah, there there was an evening
where he came and we showed him

568
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,720
how to run the dragon and he got
to play with the dragon and make

569
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,120
the fire breathe and stuff like
that.

570
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,200
So wow, Yeah, it was a weird
time, but it was.

571
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,120
Very cool.
Yeah.

572
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,880
Yeah.
No, that's really cool.

573
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,520
What a cool memory.
Yeah.

574
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,920
So you hadn't created Navigator
yet though, right?

575
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,880
No.
So how did like, how did things

576
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,440
get to that?
Like was it based on need?

577
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Like were you doing all of these
different big jobs?

578
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,600
And you were like, wait a
second, we're missing something

579
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,920
in all of this.
Basically, yeah, I mean, my, my

580
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:38,640
sort of inflection point was on
building the Bellagio Theater.

581
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,040
So I had, I had started Fisher,
Fisher Technical Services the

582
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,720
year before we did Bellagio, but
it was just me in a bedroom in

583
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,480
my house, basically just writing
specifications and doing some

584
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,480
mechanical design and that kind
of stuff, but not actually

585
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,040
fabricating anything.
So I was one of the technical

586
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000
project managers for the
construction of the Bellagio,

587
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,480
the O Theatre, another
monstrous, you know, open

588
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,360
checkbook show.
Yeah, I wrote all the

589
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,520
specifications, got all the
worked with Rick Gray and

590
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,120
Jeanette Farmer to get all the
contractors hired and get

591
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,440
everybody managed.
And just watching some of the

592
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,480
contractors work, it's it's like
this is painful.

593
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,560
I can do this and that once,
once Bellagio, basically we did

594
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,680
the turnover from the
construction to Cirque display

595
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,640
for production.
At that point I left and got a

596
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,080
shop space and got a couple
friends and.

597
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,760
Started building something.
So when you were on your own,

598
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,040
working from your bedroom, a one
person company, Fisher Technical

599
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,840
Services, Yeah.
Was that stressful?

600
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,560
Like as far as doing something
the size of the Bellagio

601
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,160
showroom, knowing that, you
know, if something goes wrong or

602
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,840
whatever, you're you're doomed,
You're out of business.

603
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,640
You can't even blame anyone
because it's just you.

604
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,440
You know, yeah, it wasn't it.
It being just me was actually a

605
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,639
kind of a stress reducer because
I knew even if it went all

606
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,440
sideways, I could just go back
to be on a stage hand.

607
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,800
It didn't get stressful till
later when I had like employees

608
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,360
and had to make payroll and you
know.

609
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,520
Pack up stuff that is true,
yeah.

610
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,280
Then it feels much more grown
up, but yeah.

611
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,920
There wasn't, there wasn't as
much at stake for me or anybody,

612
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,679
you know, who I employed in the
beginning because there wasn't

613
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,080
that money at this, you know?
That's a, that's a great point.

614
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,440
You can just, you know, fold up
your company and go back to work

615
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:36,199
and just, yeah, regular work.
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

616
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,880
I never thought of it that way.
Like as I, I would just think

617
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,480
that, you know, like if
something crashes, you know,

618
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,639
it's nice if you have a whole
bunch of people because it kind

619
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,560
of crashes and then spreads the
weight of the crash over all of

620
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,920
those people as opposed to it's
all on me, you know, and it just

621
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,280
crushes me.
But you make a good point.

622
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,440
Go in the other direction.
You don't have responsibility

623
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,000
for all those people and
expenses and etcetera.

624
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,960
So it's actually a little easier
because if things fail, they

625
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,200
fail and they'll.
Have to go sideways and then you

626
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,240
don't want it to go sideways.
But if it does, you're not like

627
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,800
affecting people's livelihoods,
you know?

628
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,560
Yeah.
So then you you hired employees,

629
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,720
built a shop and then you
started creating things and was

630
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,480
navigator one of the first
things or?

631
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,720
No, we didn't have that many
employees or that much stuff.

632
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:28,960
So we basically started building
small pieces of automation

633
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,880
equipment, like little winches
for specialty gags.

634
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,240
We built the gear for the big
disappearing curtain at the

635
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,840
beginning of O, that big red
curtain that flies out.

636
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:46,000
And so we built some stuff for
Universal Studios and we did, we

637
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,880
did develop basically a version
one of Navigator that's sort of

638
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,800
ran kind of half on Windows,
half on DOS.

639
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,240
But we, we essentially were
doing automation at the time was

640
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:03,200
largely based on industrial
equipment.

641
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,440
So basically you would sort of
get married to a, an industrial

642
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,320
supplier like Allen Bradley or
SUW Eurodrive or Siemens or one

643
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,080
of those guys that basically use
their equipment, put a front end

644
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,040
on it that people could make it
a little easier to program.

645
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,240
But most of them were still kind
of clunky.

646
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,200
And then that was automation.
And then the first version of

647
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,920
the Navigator, we, we did
basically the same thing.

648
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,400
We had, we used an industrial
platform and just wrote a Pista

649
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,360
Windows interface for it so you
could program it.

650
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,800
But then a few years in we got
the contract to provide the

651
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:46,160
automation for Lorev at the win.
And this was 2003, I want to say

652
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,760
somewhere around there.
And that was an inflection point

653
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,920
that was basically, and looking
back on it, I still really can't

654
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,680
believe that this was the
decision, but it was, are we

655
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,320
going to be an automation
company or not?

656
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,080
Because even even writing,
writing a front end just for

657
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,000
regular industrial gear, there's
limitations to it.

658
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,360
You're basically, you're limited
to what that stuff can do.

659
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,680
And what we wanted to do was
basically right.

660
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,480
And from the ground up design
and entertainment automation

661
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,840
system that was basically the
equipment agnostic, could talk

662
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,280
to anything, could control
anything, put it all under 1

663
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:30,320
wrapper and and provide the
freedom and the speed of

664
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,480
programming you needed for shows
like we had been working on.

665
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,160
Because a lot of the employees
came from certain places like

666
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,680
that.
And everyone was kind of aware

667
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,040
of, yeah, eventually it all
worked.

668
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,560
But man, it was a slob to to get
there.

669
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,080
And it was tough as it was tough
as an operator to know what was

670
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,400
going on at any time.
And so we had this giant wish

671
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,120
list of like, wow, I wish, you
know, they would work this way

672
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,800
or this that where I had these
tools or I had these things.

673
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:03,400
And that's when we decided to
basically on on the Lorev

674
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,320
contract within the Lorev
timeline, go from a completely

675
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,880
clean sheet of paper and design
and build the entire Navigator

676
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,920
automation system and implement
it for the very first time on

677
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,880
Lorev.
That was that was Navigator one.

678
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,400
Yeah, Lorev was the first show
that we do, which was bonkers.

679
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,880
That is wild.
It was nuts.

680
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,680
It was it was everything.
It was consoles, it was

681
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,960
emergency stop systems, it was
motion control, it was the user

682
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,200
interface software, all the
wenches, all the mechanical gear

683
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,480
have all at the same time within
like 13 months.

684
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,800
Whoa, yeah, it was nuts.
But that was that was the

685
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,520
genesis of Navigator as people
know it today.

686
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,600
Basically there, there wasn't,
there wasn't earlier a Navigator

687
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,080
one and that we learned some
some good stuff on that as far

688
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,400
as operator in a case and where
we were still deficient on tools

689
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,000
and that kind of stuff and then.
Right, the clean chain

690
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,120
navigator, Yeah.
And I, I don't know anything

691
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,800
about this navigator product,
but so I read a little bit about

692
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,880
it and one of the things that I
thought was really interesting

693
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,840
was rules.
And so did that exist right in

694
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,960
the beginning?
Yeah, rules.

695
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,680
Rules was a problem that came
came from a problem we had to

696
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,440
solve on Larev.
There was this giant turntable

697
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,000
that was basically the entire
ceiling of the theater that had

698
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,880
1010 flying tracks in it and it
would revolve.

699
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,200
So there was an annular area
where we could pick up

700
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,520
performers or scenery, track
them in, drop them into the

701
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,560
thing and rotate the turntable.
But the theater had a height

702
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,360
limitation.
So we had the turntable up at

703
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:50,000
there, but we only had about 15
feet or so of actual height.

704
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,560
So the problem is you have to
have limits for your winch lines

705
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,400
going up and you have to have
sufficient room to decelerate

706
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,840
before you actually whack into
anything hard with it.

707
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,240
So if we had used regular
mechanical limits, you would

708
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,440
never be able to get anything
off the ground because it you

709
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,840
you'd have to stop slowing down
from top speed about 10 feet

710
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,040
away from the structure to give
it time to actually come to a

711
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,960
stop.
So rules rules were basically.

712
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,560
A structure that we had to make
for if then statements.

713
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,520
So it would be like if you are
20 feet away from the turntable

714
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,800
and you are still going at 10
feet per second, automatically

715
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,640
slow down to five.
If you are 5 feet away and

716
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,000
you're still going at 5 feet a
second.

717
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,280
So basically imagine somebody
took the joystick and just

718
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,720
floored it at the feeling.
No, no deceleration.

719
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,600
The rules would basically step
in and take over and knock you

720
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,480
down to speeds that you could
still decelerate A.

721
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,960
So they're like programmed
limits or whatever it's.

722
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,240
If then statements for literally
anything in the system, so you

723
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,760
can relate any data from any
piece of gear to any other

724
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,600
action of any other piece of
gear.

725
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,880
Whether it's just pop up a
message on my screen to bring

726
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,080
the entire system to a scratch,
screeching halt.

727
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,600
So literally any piece of data
that the system has access to,

728
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,960
it can relate to any other piece
of control.

729
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,960
And they all layer on top of
each other, all of those.

730
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,200
Rules they just like.
One doesn't take precedence over

731
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,240
the next one or.
Whatever.

732
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,680
If you look at so previously
there were like theme parks, you

733
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,960
would do a sort of a pseudo rule
system where you would take a

734
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,080
separate PLC or separate
controller and write basically

735
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,040
supervisory rules on that and
have that watcher system.

736
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,920
And that sort of concept got
rolled into the navigator DNA.

737
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,160
So it was already in there.
So the operators had access to

738
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,000
that as opposed to having to
program an entire supervisory

739
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,400
system by itself.
But it became handy.

740
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,240
It became handy for anything
like you could say, you know,

741
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:48,720
play a voice message from
speaker to when this lift gets

742
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,760
to position a, you know any, any
if then statement you can think

743
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,560
of.
You can write based on the

744
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,760
rules.
And they just sit there and they

745
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,720
are in the background constantly
scanning for those conditions.

746
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,960
So it sort of sounds like sort
of automation control and show

747
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,600
control kind of mixed into one
sense.

748
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,600
Yeah, Yeah.
That's really cool.

749
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,720
And so this was early 2000s,
right?

750
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:14,600
It's what you said when you
started building that.

751
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,040
Were you building it just for
your own projects at that time?

752
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,640
Or were you also selling it to
other people for their projects?

753
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,280
We would sell it to or license
it anyway to permanent

754
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,960
installations.
So like Larev or any other show

755
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,480
that needed it, you would
basically sell them a software

756
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:32,960
license and all the gear that
went with it.

757
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,480
Interesting.
So you were using somebody

758
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,240
else's hardware and you were
just building the software that

759
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,560
tied everything together.
Is that how it worked or did you

760
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,800
build the hardware as well?
Generally you use somebody

761
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,480
else's hard right?
You're like no one and no one's.

762
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,200
It's not like dimmers where
you're where like a lighting

763
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,080
company's built in dimmers from
scratch essentially.

764
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,000
Like you would buy a motor drive
or a hydraulic valve.

765
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,800
I see.
And you had to be able to talk

766
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,840
to that and tell it what to do
basically.

767
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,280
So Navigator had all the motion
control stuff built into it and

768
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,480
didn't care what manufacturer
the gear came from.

769
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,720
Whereas all the systems were
like if you were an Allen

770
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:12,080
Bradley system, you had to use
Allen Bradley gear because

771
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,160
that's all we talked to.
I see.

772
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,120
So you were, we were like
whatever you got higher, higher

773
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,600
outside contractors to build
their stuff.

774
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,880
We'll talk to that, we'll talk
to that.

775
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,840
We'll get it all under more
interesting umbrella.

776
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,920
So you can have.
Yeah, it was.

777
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,320
It was a.
Nutty complicated project and we

778
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,040
didn't know how complicated it
was when we started.

779
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,120
It sounds like it.
So did that end up becoming a

780
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,480
hardware project too or or was
it always?

781
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,760
Just something we built, circuit
boards for motion control, we

782
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,000
built OK, all kinds of stuff.
So you became a manufacturer as

783
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,920
well as.
All of this, we were already

784
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,680
building mechanical equipment,
Yeah, at the time.

785
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,120
The winches and turntables and
hydraulic gear and elevators and

786
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,360
all that kind of stuff.
But so your schooling eventually

787
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,040
did come back around and and
help out, you know, in your

788
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,600
career.
It wasn't just a waste like so

789
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:08,120
many people who take like a, you
know, social studies, you know,

790
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,440
or something and, and end up
becoming a, you know, whatever,

791
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:19,200
a touring Lt.
But so eventually you obviously

792
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,040
start doing a bunch of work with
with our friends at Tate.

793
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,640
When did that happen?
How did that happen?

794
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,120
Like how did you connect with
Tate?

795
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,520
Was it just the obvious thing
they're doing these monstrous

796
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:34,560
shows and.
Yeah, basically, I guess 2006,

797
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,640
2007 somewhere on there.
We met them actually at LDI and

798
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,720
they came over and they had been
struggling a little bit with

799
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,480
their own sort of how to do
controls stuff in house.

800
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,000
They they had the same problems
that we had had 10 years prior

801
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,800
where you had all these
different manufacturers of

802
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,920
things you.
Just have a head start you.

803
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,120
Couldn't make them all talk
together.

804
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,760
And so you had like one guy over
here on a button and one guy

805
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,200
over there on a button and some
guy over there on a joystick and

806
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,160
stage manager going, OK,
everybody go.

807
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:09,200
And you know, so yeah, we, we,
they were, they were a pretty

808
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,880
good client of ours for, for a
while.

809
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,760
And we were mostly supplying
control systems and some

810
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,160
mechanical gear to them for the
for the touring shows.

811
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:24,240
Yeah.
So like, I mean, I remember

812
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,240
around that time Tate was really
starting to create these really

813
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:34,360
nutty, you know, set pieces or
automated things on on a lot of

814
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,600
these shows and flying
performers out over the audience

815
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,440
and.
That's when they adopted

816
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,960
Navigator was kind of enabled
them to step a step up in their

817
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,080
mechanical automation.
Game Yeah, yeah.

818
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,120
So that that obviously that
relationship got better and

819
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,880
better and eventually they came
to you and said hey Scott, we

820
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,400
think we need to own your
company and basically, yeah,

821
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,280
yeah.
And I mean, to me it sounds like

822
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,000
a perfect marriage, like the the
company that's growing the most

823
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,160
of that type of construction,
you know, building these massive

824
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,640
automated flying sets and stuff,
should probably own that control

825
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,080
method.
Yeah, they definitely needed a

826
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,160
control system.
Yeah, to.

827
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,280
Did they ever talk about just
licensing it versus buying the

828
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,760
whole darn company?
They were when we, when we were

829
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,400
first starting out with them,
they were, they were basically

830
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,880
just one of our clients.
So they did the licensing like

831
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:43,080
everybody else did, Yeah.
And then when they started sort

832
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,800
of courting the idea of growing,
growing take much bigger and

833
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,240
getting some some financing and
some capital involved, that's

834
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:54,360
when the we started discussing
take closer relationships

835
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,600
always.
Yeah, yeah.

836
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,960
And probably like most sort of
people who are in this business

837
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,200
really to create cool things and
do cool things and stuff, the

838
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,360
business side of it was maybe
something that you were probably

839
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,200
willing to let go of or or was
that not something you wanted to

840
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,920
let?
Yeah, I was, I mean, I was like,

841
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,520
obviously I started as a
stagehand, so business

842
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,040
management was not really a
great love of mine.

843
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,960
It was sort of a something you
had to do.

844
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,200
So I had to, you know, I had
attempted to have a series of

845
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,920
general managers, people from
the business world come in and

846
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,560
help run the business side of
the company.

847
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,760
But entertainment's a weird
business and it freaked out a

848
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,320
lot of these guys.
How we, how it actually?

849
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,320
Works not too many people so.
I always ended up kind of

850
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,960
circling back and then getting
back involved in the business,

851
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,960
which kind of took away from my
design time stuff.

852
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,720
I got into the software
development and that then the

853
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,120
hardware development and that
kind of thing.

854
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,480
So I was kind of stretched in
two directions.

855
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:02,800
So yeah, any opportunity to
basically offload from me

856
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,400
personally at least more of the
business operations to people

857
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,360
who actually like doing that so
I could focus more on on the

858
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,280
gear was.
Was welcome.

859
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,920
You know, it's funny because
it's such a common thing in our

860
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,960
industry.
Like I see so many creative

861
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,680
people who realize they need to
start a company because that's

862
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,160
what you're supposed to do when
you grow beyond just yourself or

863
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,760
whatever.
And they're not passionate at

864
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,560
all about running the company.
They're passionate about

865
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:35,440
creating and doing the work and
being the scientist behind all

866
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,720
of that stuff.
I had a business partner like

867
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:43,640
this once and him and his wife
decided to come at me and say he

868
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,320
should be the president of the
company, even though he was a

869
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,600
minority partner of mine.
He he needs to be the president.

870
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,480
He shouldn't be a vice
president, but he was a vice

871
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,400
president for a reason.
He, he hated, you know, dealing

872
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,600
with people and dealing with
business stuff.

873
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,800
And as soon as we made him the
president, he lost all his

874
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,800
passion.
He did a terrible job.

875
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,520
People didn't want to deal with
him.

876
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,120
And, you know, I just wanted him
locked in a little room creating

877
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,640
really cool stuff because that's
what he did so well.

878
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,240
And it, it really ruined the
business when when we made that

879
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:19,720
change.
And I think again, a lot of

880
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:22,000
people do it because they think
it's what they should be doing.

881
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,000
I'm not saying this was the case
with you, but and and at some

882
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,320
point it's just like you take
all this and I'm just going to

883
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,960
take this part that I that I am
doing this for the reason that I

884
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,120
got into this.
So I mean.

885
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,360
Business wise, there's sort of a
threshold for like, like I, I

886
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,400
could see, I knew which kinds of
projects we wanted to be

887
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,960
involved in.
You know, we wanted to build

888
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,040
those big theaters in the giant
theme park shows and we wanted

889
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,640
to build that big gear.
The company is probably the most

890
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,600
fun when we were like around
2530 employees, but we had to

891
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,560
get up to 75 to 100 employees
had a big space to be able to do

892
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,840
those big shows.
Yeah, we wanted to do the big

893
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,880
shows, so yeah.
You know, a lot of stress at

894
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,280
that point, yeah.
It's a lot of sleep deprivation,

895
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,000
a lot of stress.
Yeah.

896
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,480
A.
Lot of stress, a lot of stress.

897
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,560
No, I completely get it.
Trust me.

898
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,720
I, I only have 10 employees and
for me, sometimes it's a lot of

899
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,920
stress because you know, no
matter what payrolls, payroll

900
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,640
and expenses are expenses and
everything scales, you know, so

901
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,480
it's, it's whether it's $100,000
problem or $1,000,000 problem,

902
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,480
it's still a problem, you know,
so, so I completely get that.

903
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,720
So anyways, they they obviously
made you a deal that you

904
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:43,120
couldn't refuse and and you
became part of the company for a

905
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,320
while and I would guess that
that was a huge change for you.

906
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,640
How many employees did Tate have
at that time?

907
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:53,360
Tate had, I think at that time
they had a couple 100.

908
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,800
Oh, that's it.
I thought they were maybe bigger

909
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,680
than that by 2010.
Yeah, I was.

910
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:02,320
I'm not entirely sure, but I
think it was only a couple 100

911
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,680
because they were still just in
the one bill.

912
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,520
OK, OK.
Yeah, man, they've grown now.

913
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,600
Yeah, completely different
Business Today.

914
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,320
Yeah, you.
Inject some massive amounts of

915
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,040
cash and you can grow.
It's so.

916
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,240
True, It's so true.
And they certainly have injected

917
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:23,360
a massive amount of cash.
So, you know, Fast forward, how

918
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,600
long did you stay there?
A couple years, couple years,

919
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:30,240
yeah.
And so since that time, did did

920
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:34,880
you like retire after that or
did you just kind of chill out

921
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,520
for a while And did did Fisher
Technical State continue?

922
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,920
No, basically Tate kind of
folded Fisher technical

923
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,480
employees and OK here and
everything into Tate and

924
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:56,120
Navigator obviously got pushed
forward into being the the Tate

925
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,000
sort of flagship yeah automation
system.

926
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:03,640
But yeah, I I took some time off
after that and wandered around

927
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,400
the country.
Good for you.

928
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,480
Which was nice and.
What are what are like the

929
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,680
passions that you pursued when
you when you left Tate and and

930
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,000
took some time off?
Like what?

931
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,880
What do you do to?
Probably the most fun thing I

932
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:25,040
did was I took a 10 month 40,000
mile road trip to all 50 States

933
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,240
and I think 7 Canadian provinces
and a 50 year old sports car.

934
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:30,960
No.
Tiny, Really.

935
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,120
Yeah.
What kind of car?

936
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,760
A 1967 Datsun roadster.
Oh my God, you could have picked

937
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,200
something a little more
comfortable, like an escalator.

938
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,840
Or something.
I actually thought about that.

939
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,280
I was like, I should get like a
drunk and like, you know what's

940
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,520
going to make this trip
interesting?

941
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,440
It's a more fun story.
Tiny a tiny little car that I've

942
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,080
got to keep running for this
entire that's.

943
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:54,240
Awesome.
That was great.

944
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,640
You weren't married, Obviously.
No.

945
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,560
Yeah, because I can't see a wife
going along with that play.

946
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,960
Honey, here's what we're going
to do for 10 months.

947
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,640
So.
So how did that go?

948
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,560
Was it as cool as you expected
or did it?

949
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:09,480
It was.
Cooler.

950
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:14,200
Cooler than I expected.
I sort of discovered right at

951
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,320
the beginning of the trip that I
was way more burned out than I

952
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,760
thought I was.
Yeah.

953
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,960
Like once I had actually stopped
and I didn't have to answer 200

954
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,040
emails a day and.
I got the phone.

955
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:29,000
Ringing constantly the the yeah,
I was.

956
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,840
I was in worse shape than I that
I had actually realized.

957
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,240
How long did it take you to get
out of that?

958
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,240
Because like I've had different.
Friends that trip, really the

959
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:42,080
whole trip, yeah, yeah, I, I was
tired of people when I started

960
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:47,120
and just generally interacting
with other humans and figured I

961
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,120
would like to take off and
leave.

962
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:53,640
But I met so many great, cool,
generous people out on that trip

963
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,040
because like, driving that car
on that trip is sort of like

964
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,640
travelling with a puppy.
Like everybody wants to come up

965
00:53:58,640 --> 00:53:59,640
and pet.
It, you know, kind of thing.

966
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,520
So you just meet people, see
that organically and by the time

967
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,960
the trip was done, I was pretty
much cleansed and and ready for

968
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,040
dinner.
Life.

969
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,760
At least tell me you stayed in
hotels and you didn't have just.

970
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,160
Like a couple.
We can't just start.

971
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,120
Oh, really?
Oh yeah.

972
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,920
I had a tent in the back of the
back of the car and drove that

973
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,400
car places it should not have
gone, like these long dirt roads

974
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,000
in the desert.
You know, like just doing really

975
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:26,960
foolish things.
But then it was great.

976
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,320
That's wild.
What were what were some of the

977
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,240
cooler places that you saw?
Because like when, when you say

978
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:37,280
I saw all 50 states, I went to
all 50 states.

979
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,520
People don't realize that's a
big deal.

980
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,920
Like, you know, I've lived in
the United States since 1991.

981
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,400
I haven't been to all 50 states,
you know, in in 30 some odd

982
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,600
years.
But yeah, that's that's kind of

983
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,520
a big deal.
So what what were some of the

984
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,280
really like?
What were some of the really

985
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,800
super memorable states or things
that you didn't expect or.

986
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,800
I, I had never seen Yellowstone
before and that was unbelievably

987
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:15,120
amazing and just sort of the
vast tracts of land in the

988
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,960
Midwest, you know, and they say
amber waves of grain.

989
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,760
They they mean it, you know,
it's.

990
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,320
Well, have we ever been to
upstaging?

991
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:27,440
Oh yeah, I.
Remember the first time I went

992
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,600
to their their new shop, which
they've been in now for what, 20

993
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:31,320
years?
Almost.

994
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,320
The first time I went to the
shop, we didn't have NAV yet.

995
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,720
And so it was like you go to,
you know, you'll see the higher

996
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,280
stacks of corn and you turn
right at that.

997
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,160
And then you go to the third
Main Street, not the 1st 2:00

998
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,880
but they go to the third Main
Street, make a left there.

999
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,000
You know, I mean it was just
like the directions were, you

1000
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,640
know, and then you'll pass a
green barn and then a red one.

1001
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,720
And once you pass the red 1, as
soon as the grass gets shorter

1002
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,920
again, you turn there.
You know, it was wild that the

1003
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,280
instructions and it was just
driving through a maze of corn

1004
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,880
fields and stuff, you know?
But a really cool.

1005
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,720
Town where upstaging is, though.
For sure, I kept a kept A blog

1006
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:19,320
for the trip, primarily for my
nieces and nephews to kind of

1007
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,040
see what I was up to.
But then that's cool.

1008
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,400
Some of my sports car buddies
kind of got onto it.

1009
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,240
So it became kind of a thing.
And then as I traveled around,

1010
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:29,760
people would e-mail it and be
going, Hey, you're going to be

1011
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,160
in my neighborhood, you know,
sometime you can keep stay at my

1012
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,040
house and that's cool and that
kind of thing.

1013
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,160
So the blog's the blog's still
up, which I still get mail about

1014
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,480
and stuff, which is is cool.
That's cool.

1015
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,840
That's really cool.
And so like the sleeping under

1016
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,000
the stars thing, obviously you
just sold your company.

1017
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,720
You weren't broke, so it wasn't
like you were, you were trying

1018
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:51,600
to save money.
You just wanted to really be

1019
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,640
like a naturalist kind of thing
or?

1020
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,080
It's kind of my happy place.
You know, I, I, I really don't

1021
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,800
like going to fancy restaurant
or fancy hotels with spas and,

1022
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,520
and then that kind of stuff.
I like to kind of like fit a

1023
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,200
little.
If I leave Las Vegas, I like

1024
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,320
taking off into the middle of
Nevada, where like there's no

1025
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,720
other humans.
Yeah, I can understand that.

1026
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:16,760
Like especially when you live in
a nutty place like Las Vegas,

1027
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,840
you know, it's why wouldn't you
want to get away?

1028
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,880
You know, I'm, I'm from Calgary
and I, I grew up spending

1029
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:28,680
virtually every weekend in in
the mountains and about 20 years

1030
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,040
ago I built a house in in
Canmore.

1031
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,360
I don't know if you know where
that is, but yeah, between

1032
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,400
Calgary and Banff, right next to
Banff.

1033
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,880
And I still have that and I go
there, I actually leave in a

1034
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,120
couple weeks and I'm there for
the summer every year.

1035
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:42,280
And that's.
Beautiful.

1036
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,880
But even that, like I have this
unbelievable view of the

1037
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,680
mountains, both, both sides of
my house, really not a lot of

1038
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,080
houses around me and stuff.
But even that, it's nice to get

1039
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,080
away from that to where there's
no houses at all and no like

1040
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,080
light pollution and no nothing,
you know?

1041
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:00,800
Yeah, stars right down to the
horizon.

1042
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,200
I just love it.
I love it so much.

1043
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,600
And the the Northern Lights, I
mean like last summer, the

1044
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,440
Northern Lights were going crazy
for a couple of weeks.

1045
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,040
It was like everything in
Pennsylvania.

1046
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,880
Did you really?
Oh, yeah, same time around that,

1047
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,080
same.
I remember they were in like was

1048
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,880
it England or something that was
seeing Northern Lights?

1049
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,160
Way, way South.
Yeah, really nutty.

1050
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,080
Like people all over weird
places were seeing the Northern

1051
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,200
Lights last year.
It was.

1052
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,320
It was a strange phenomenon.
Yeah.

1053
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,840
So did you went back to work at
some point, like after this 10

1054
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,200
months?
Yeah.

1055
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,600
I mean, I didn't, I didn't sort
of voluntarily like I didn't, I

1056
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,440
didn't go looking for it, but I
started getting phone calls from

1057
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,800
past clients and people I'd
worked with and before who knew?

1058
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,600
I was kind of in the wind, I
guess.

1059
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,240
So I did a few little projects
here and there.

1060
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:00,280
And some of those projects were
with stunt coordinators that I'd

1061
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:05,520
worked with on movie projects.
Because part of one of the, one

1062
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,240
of the, one of the cool projects
or products that FTSI made was

1063
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:16,040
these really high speed, high
strength, life safety qualified

1064
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:21,240
winches that that the sun
community uses a lot and for all

1065
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,480
kinds of stuff like they've done
hundreds of movies.

1066
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,360
So I started doing a little bit
of that again, because the movie

1067
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,400
projects worked well for me
because they were typically

1068
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,360
pretty short term.
And when they were done, they

1069
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,800
were done.
Like there was no getting a call

1070
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,040
back to come fix a piece of gear
because I was all in the

1071
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:39,760
dumpster at that point.
Yeah.

1072
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,880
But yeah, the fun, the fun part
of that is it's still the same

1073
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,760
gear.
Like I just last week wrapped on

1074
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:53,200
Supergirl in London and we're
still using the same witches

1075
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,000
that I was that we built 22
years ago now, I guess something

1076
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,320
like that.
Wild.

1077
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,040
So do you have to go back to
Tate and license your own

1078
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,360
software from them?
No, basically I just tell

1079
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,840
production, call Tate and get
this gear and that the gear

1080
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,800
shows up on one side and I show
off on the other side.

1081
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,120
That's wild.
Off we go.

1082
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,320
You think they'd at least give
you a system or something so

1083
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,440
that you could rent it out and
and make a little revenue on it?

1084
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,560
But yeah, that's that's really.
So you've been doing a bunch of

1085
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,080
movies?
Basically, yeah, that's that's

1086
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,640
I've done a few other smaller
jobs with like Disney and people

1087
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:29,240
like that for like little
consulting things.

1088
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,160
But the bulk of the the actual
work I've been doing has been in

1089
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,760
the movie.
World So if if somebody came and

1090
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,200
said hey, you know, we're
building this huge automation

1091
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,920
shop or whatever and we want you
to come in and run it, you're 0

1092
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,440
interest.
I have not much interest in that

1093
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,640
at the moment.
Yeah, yeah, I like, I like to

1094
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:53,440
know it basically at least now
go take off to those places you

1095
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:54,640
know that I like to be.
Good for you.

1096
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:55,880
Yeah.
Good for you.

1097
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:57,960
Yeah.
I mean, it's lifestyle choices

1098
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,920
and it's it's all important.
You know, one of the things I

1099
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,240
forgot to talk about, I was I
actually want to share my screen

1100
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,680
because I thought this was so
cool when I looked at it.

1101
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,600
Hang on.
I got to see if I can find it.

1102
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:16,840
There it is.
Yeah, yeah.

1103
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:24,400
This.
And that's a fun project.

1104
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,760
I mean, one of the things that
blew me away about this video.

1105
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,520
So these are all each on
individual motors.

1106
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,120
Are each of these balls on
individual motors?

1107
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:52,320
Yes.
Yeah. 2008 I think.

1108
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,120
Tiny little witches.
Jesus.

1109
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,280
I mean it's very cool people can
look this up.

1110
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:05,720
They can just search for.
Sorry the audio is overwhelming

1111
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,080
you a little bit.
Oh yeah.

1112
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,280
All right, let me kill it.
Stop sharing.

1113
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,560
Sorry that that the background
audio was like overwhelming you

1114
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,440
a bit there.
Yeah, yeah.

1115
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,720
You know, one of the really cool
things about that that I noticed

1116
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,920
is you had 1400 followers on
your YouTube page, but 600,000

1117
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,840
views of that video.
Like I was like, yeah, what?

1118
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,120
And a lot of your, a lot of your
videos were like that.

1119
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,040
Like you had a lot of views on a
lot of your videos just because

1120
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,160
they were so cool like that.
Yeah, we did some cool stuff.

1121
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:40,880
The world's color stuff for
just.

1122
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,040
David's Nate.
Yeah, that particular video, it

1123
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,480
goes on and on and on.
And I actually remember seeing

1124
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,080
it like 15 years ago or 10 years
ago or whenever it was and being

1125
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,920
blown away then.
And I just looked it up again

1126
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,440
and I, I went, wow, that's
really, really nice.

1127
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,760
Like now, you know, it's funny
because I was watching it.

1128
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:01,960
My girlfriend walked in and
said, oh, what's that?

1129
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,360
A drone show?
And I said no, no, this is way

1130
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:05,240
before.
Drone.

1131
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:07,640
Yeah, yeah.
So.

1132
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,840
Tate Tate actually used that
technology again on the Red Hot

1133
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:17,320
Chili Peppers tour with that big
overhead thing with the I think

1134
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,280
they had long skinny pieces with
lights in them, but same, same

1135
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,280
deal basically.
Yeah, yeah, it's a really cool

1136
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,920
look.
Yeah, the the position on all of

1137
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:32,320
those objects is mapped to
pixels in a video, really.

1138
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,000
So it's.
Like you're laying on your back

1139
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,120
on the stage watching it.
You'd be seeing a video.

1140
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,000
Pretty much, yeah.
I mean, because instead of

1141
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,200
trying to program each one of
those individually, which would

1142
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,200
have been a nightmare, we've
basically just mapped the

1143
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:52,480
position of the object to a
grayscale value from a black and

1144
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,560
white video.
So blacks all the way up, whites

1145
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,360
all the way down, and the
transition between then

1146
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:57,600
determines the speed of the
piece.

1147
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,000
So you can basically just pump
video into the system and it

1148
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,280
would just do whatever.
So if you did a gradient, you

1149
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,880
get a get an angle.
If you do a water droplet, you

1150
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,160
get that, you know.
Wow, that's really cool.

1151
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,600
What a great idea.
What was that?

1152
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,720
Was that just an exhibit or was
that part?

1153
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,680
Of that, yeah, just an exhibit
at the Shanghai World Expo.

1154
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:22,040
OK, Yeah, really cool.
Yeah, our client had seen there

1155
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,200
was a, there was a very similar
installation in Germany for BMW

1156
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,760
where these little spheres get
down and did the shape of a car

1157
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,480
basically in our client in
Japan, Muriyama had seen that.

1158
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:35,520
And they're like, we want that,
but bigger and cooler.

1159
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,120
Can you guys do it?
And we're like, probably so,

1160
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,880
yeah.
That's super cool.

1161
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:47,760
So since that time, like since
since you know, after your, your

1162
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,600
dots and drive and everything
else and you've been doing

1163
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,520
movies and stuff, but you've
also gotten involved with, with

1164
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,560
some other stuff too, right?
Like I think you were saying

1165
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,400
earlier, before we started
recording, you were telling me

1166
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,640
that you were part of the the
Rihanna thing at the Super Bowl,

1167
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,280
which I thought was
unbelievable.

1168
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:12,960
One of the the so I'll
occasionally get calls for short

1169
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,680
term projects like that where
it's like, hey, are you busy

1170
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:23,360
then B, do you want to do this?
And one of my former employees,

1171
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,840
Paul Sapsis from Sapsis Rigging.
Yeah, originally his dad and

1172
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:33,960
uncle had that extremely
talented rigger designer that

1173
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:38,560
was his basically his baby was
Super Bowl and he called and

1174
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,600
said, hey, are you are you busy?
Do you want to come do this

1175
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,560
Super Bowl thing?
And I'm like, that sounds great.

1176
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:47,120
I've never been to a Super Bowl.
So fine, basically went and

1177
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,160
helped out with that.
Not to mention how cool that

1178
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:51,440
was.
Like it's really cool.

1179
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:56,080
I am certainly not a Rihanna fan
and I don't generally like most

1180
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:00,240
of the halftime shows, but that
one just because of the

1181
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:01,960
platforms looked looked.
Great.

1182
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:04,040
With the with the early 5 wires,
they looked like they were

1183
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:04,600
floating.
Yeah.

1184
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,080
Well, and the amount of safety
that had to be involved too, for

1185
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:11,040
a woman who's whatever she was
seven months pregnant or

1186
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:15,200
something at the time, you know,
like just wild.

1187
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,560
That was such a beautiful show.
It really, really looked

1188
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,920
incredible.
Yeah, Tate did a nice job

1189
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:21,320
managing that whole thing as
well.

1190
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,640
That was a that was a fairly
large team to pull it off.

1191
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:30,320
So has like you said, it's weird
that you go back and do shows

1192
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,160
now and all the gear is still
the same.

1193
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:40,360
Is there not any kind of
evolution or or motion forward

1194
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,360
in the technology for that?
There is for sure.

1195
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,800
The the stunt, the stunt movie
gear is mostly not involved much

1196
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:49,800
because it's a tiny, tiny, tiny
market.

1197
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,320
So there's not a lot of
incentive to really develop new

1198
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,840
gear for that because it's not
going to make a lot of money.

1199
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:03,400
But the, the basics of Navigator
have not really changed at all,

1200
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:09,760
but some of the, the newer
developments in it and newer

1201
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,920
stuff has has pushed on and a
lot of a lot of it's driven by

1202
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,240
the availability of better
industrial equipment.

1203
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,520
So you're still, you know, like
you're not building your own

1204
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,440
motors and you're not building
your own motor drives and

1205
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,600
amplifiers for that.
But the, the power density of

1206
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,120
server motors is really like you
can get way more power in a much

1207
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,000
smaller package.
Now direct drive motors as

1208
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:35,760
opposed to motors with gearboxes
are dead silent had much more

1209
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:40,680
responsive.
So those improvements, Navigator

1210
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,520
having sort of the innate
ability to control essentially

1211
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,120
anything that moves, the
improvements in in the

1212
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:51,160
availability of motors,
actuators, controllers,

1213
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,040
mechanical gear and marrying
that with Navigator has has

1214
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,120
really UPS UPS the the game on
that end.

1215
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:02,360
Have you been involved at all as
like an advisor or anything on

1216
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:07,560
this sort of board or committee
that advances Navigator?

1217
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,040
Do they ever bring you in as an
advisor?

1218
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:13,000
No, That's interesting.
Now do they figure I'm out in

1219
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:14,040
the middle of the woods
somewhere?

1220
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:15,920
I think.
Yeah, yeah.

1221
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:17,960
They don't want to drag you back
from a mountain.

1222
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:25,680
And so like what are you seeing
any kind of new trends or or

1223
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,120
technology or anything that's
exciting you like being that

1224
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,640
you're an electrical engineer
and you've created some really

1225
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,840
cool things in our industry,
specifically in show business,

1226
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,800
Are you seeing any new trends or
or just advancements that are

1227
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,319
pretty exciting?
I've I've seen, I've seen more

1228
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:47,120
in the way of opportunity that
I've seen in the way of actual

1229
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:51,200
advancement.
The but the current, the current

1230
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:55,279
state-of-the-art is pretty good,
even though the current

1231
01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:59,160
state-of-the-art is still
largely the same as it was 10

1232
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,240
years ago, with the, with the
exception of, you know, some

1233
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,760
better, some better tire
performing equipment.

1234
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:09,000
Yeah.
I mean, we, we basically built

1235
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,880
Navigator with the intention of
we should be able to run the

1236
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,680
biggest surf distillation on the
planet.

1237
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:15,960
One of the what's the toolkit
that we need for that?

1238
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:22,319
And it's a really good toolkit.
It doesn't.

1239
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,120
It doesn't need that much more
than it than it has.

1240
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,040
So there's not a ton of
incentive to to push the

1241
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:33,160
envelope beyond that.
But there are definitely

1242
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,840
opportunities to do it that
haven't been explored yet.

1243
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,399
So it'll be interesting to see
if those opportunities get

1244
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:42,680
pursued.
Yeah, the future.

1245
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:47,479
Do do you think AI will ever
sneak into into automation, even

1246
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:52,319
just figuring out some of those,
the rules, you know, getting

1247
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,720
involved in, in the rules
standpoint, like here's what

1248
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,280
we're looking to do, What are
some potential problems?

1249
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,760
I don't think so, because
there's not enough data to teach

1250
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,400
an AI system how to do it.
Yeah.

1251
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,120
There's not.
There's not enough of a data set

1252
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,320
to actually educate an AI in
that.

1253
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:15,000
There's AI being used like
within like the CAD software.

1254
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,600
Like if you open SolidWorks
Inventor and you use their

1255
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,440
optimization tools, that's
essentially AI.

1256
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,720
So there's a lot of that going
on on the back end.

1257
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:25,720
But as far as the actual show
stuff, there's just not enough

1258
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:30,840
data for an AI to learn it.
Yeah, it just feels like, you

1259
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,720
know, to me, a math equation
almost like where you could say,

1260
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,520
you know, we're doing something
in this physical space.

1261
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,520
Here's the general dimensions,
here's what we're doing within

1262
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,640
those dimensions.
Here's the, the humans that are

1263
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:45,440
going to be involved on these
platforms or different areas,

1264
01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:49,200
you know, tell me the
complications, you know, tell

1265
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,200
me, Tell me the, the you know,
where we're going to bump our

1266
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:57,800
head, Hopefully not literally.
So no, not really.

1267
01:10:57,840 --> 01:10:59,400
Like most of that stuff is
probably it.

1268
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:03,160
Could be me being, you know, to,
to use the name of the podcast.

1269
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:04,920
A geezer.
Yeah, yeah.

1270
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:10,680
Well, me too.
But you know, and I'm not super

1271
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,720
well versed in, in, in AI, but
yeah, I know you can get a large

1272
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:19,240
data set to educate an AI to be
able to enable it to make

1273
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,200
decisions.
So you would have had to have

1274
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:25,880
fed it a ton of show data for it
to know OK, well for this show

1275
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,240
you should do this and that data
just doesn't really exist.

1276
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:33,200
Yeah, so there's another way
like in the intro.

1277
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,840
And I use this a lot when I'm,
I'm having strategic discussions

1278
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:40,440
with AI.
And because I, I use AI more,

1279
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:44,720
not like a lot of people use AI
because they want to maybe get

1280
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,280
lazier, like they want it to do
the hard work that they don't

1281
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,200
want to do or write all this
stuff that I don't want to have

1282
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:55,360
to write myself, but I'll use it
from a strategic or decision

1283
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,920
making standpoint.
And so I've just learned this

1284
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,720
Socratic method and I was just
talking about it on the intro

1285
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,480
too.
And the Socratic method is

1286
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:08,320
basically saying, OK, I'm
designing this automation system

1287
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,560
for X show.
And here are some of the

1288
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,440
complications that we're dealing
with.

1289
01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:18,200
And, you know, I want to make it
completely foolproof.

1290
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:22,560
What questions do you need to
ask me in order for me to

1291
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,760
provide you as much information
as I can to make sure that we're

1292
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:30,480
not putting people in danger or
we're not hitting limits or

1293
01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:33,080
we're not, you know, whatever
those complications might be.

1294
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:35,720
And then it'll just start asking
you questions.

1295
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:37,640
And you're saying, well, that's
a good question.

1296
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:40,040
I think it's going to be 14
feet.

1297
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,040
And you just keep feeding it
information.

1298
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:47,600
Then eventually it just spits
out this huge document and

1299
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,880
you're like, wow, you know the
the, I'll tell you, the output

1300
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,520
that I've gotten from that
method of prompting is

1301
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:57,520
unbelievable.
I should give it a try.

1302
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:58,880
Yeah, let's talk play with it a
little bit.

1303
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:03,400
Yeah, and if you want any advice
on it, like just go into ChatGPT

1304
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:08,200
or Grok or whatever you use and
just say tell me how to use the

1305
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:10,160
Socratic method in prompting
you.

1306
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,200
I want to write Socratic method
prompts to get you to be more

1307
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:17,640
productive.
And it'll tell you exactly what

1308
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,600
you need to do.
And really it's just about

1309
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:22,000
having it ask you lots and lots
of questions.

1310
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,040
And it becomes more of a
collaboration between you and a

1311
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:30,000
really cool tool that might not
know initially a lot about what

1312
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,840
exactly you're doing unless
you've told it that.

1313
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,640
So like if you say, hey, I did a
show that was this and this and

1314
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,960
this, and here's the problems we
encountered and here's how we

1315
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,920
solved them.
All of these systems now have

1316
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,160
memory, so it remembers all of
that stuff.

1317
01:13:43,480 --> 01:13:45,880
And so when you bring in a new
problem, it'll go, hmm, yeah,

1318
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,360
didn't we talk about that
before?

1319
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,520
So using that information, plus
what you're telling me today,

1320
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:51,880
here's what I can tell you.
Sure.

1321
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:57,480
So yeah, I'm having a ball with
AI right now because it's just,

1322
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:02,160
it's making me less stupid as
opposed to making me less busy.

1323
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,520
And actually it's making me more
busy because I love learning and

1324
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:09,480
I love advancing and making
cooler things and stuff.

1325
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,640
So yeah, I'm having a blast with
it.

1326
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,720
But it's not getting me into the
woods though, unfortunately,

1327
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,520
which is where I'd really rather
be.

1328
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:23,080
I'm really excited because I'm
leaving in a few weeks and and,

1329
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,920
you know, I still work and
everything because it's my house

1330
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,760
up there versus my house.
It's like you going from there

1331
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,600
to your house in Jersey or
whatever.

1332
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:36,000
But it's just the scenery and
the feeling I get when I walk

1333
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:40,440
outside and there's trees and
coyotes and bears and whatever.

1334
01:14:40,440 --> 01:14:42,880
You know, you're in nature.
It's it's just a different

1335
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:44,760
thing.
Yeah, it's really, really hard

1336
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,880
to beat.
I'm trying to think if there's

1337
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:51,560
anything that I missed here.
What did we miss?

1338
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,920
I'm sure we missed something.
Are you doing anything crazy fun

1339
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:00,400
this year or are you working?
I spent the first part of the

1340
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:05,640
year over in London shooting the
new Supergirl movie, and prior

1341
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:09,760
to that we wrapped up the new
Superman movie.

1342
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,400
So I've been doing Super People
for like a year now, and that's

1343
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,200
probably all like flying stuff
and whatever, right?

1344
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,360
Yeah.
Flying performers, a lot of

1345
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,200
stunt stuff, dropping people off
of things and running people

1346
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:22,240
into things.
And.

1347
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,520
Yeah, flinging stunt performers
around, basically.

1348
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,400
Yeah, the new the Superman
trailer actually drops today, so

1349
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:30,080
I got to go see what that looks
like.

1350
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:31,720
Cool.
Yeah, I'll have to check that

1351
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:33,760
out.
Yeah, I think I know there was a

1352
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,200
new Superman movie in the works.
So yeah.

1353
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:40,160
Who's Superman?
David Cornsweat, No.

1354
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:43,880
Not sure what else he did prior
to that, but James Gunn from the

1355
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:48,760
Guardians of the Galaxy Stuff OK
is at the helm of DC now, so

1356
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,160
that's the first big out of the
gate.

1357
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,680
Picture for interesting.
Interesting.

1358
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:54,840
Should be good.
Yeah.

1359
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:58,000
It's gotta be so much more
stressful now making movies for

1360
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,960
these guys, like blockbuster
movies, because the distribution

1361
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,880
model is so much different than
it used to be, primarily because

1362
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,880
of COVID, you know, and, and
also the little screens, you

1363
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:13,960
know, the the iPhones and stuff.
Yeah, but you know, everything's

1364
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,880
streaming now.
So like, I know I haven't been

1365
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,240
to a movie theater in a while.
Like Top Gun.

1366
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,960
I think the movies that you got
to see in a theater in IMAX or

1367
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,080
whatever, I'll usually go to
those, but.

1368
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,640
Yeah, I've really enjoyed the
collaborative process on the

1369
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,760
movie stuff because it's
different than the live

1370
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,480
entertainment because most of my
background had been live

1371
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:38,440
entertainment prior to that.
But now we will coordinate with

1372
01:16:38,440 --> 01:16:41,000
the visual effects guys and
we'll say, OK, well, you need

1373
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:46,400
this beginning part of the stunt
live for a motion reference.

1374
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,080
But then you're going to
transition to a digital

1375
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:52,320
performer that you're going to
basically build from scratch and

1376
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:53,640
just use us as a motion
reference.

1377
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:56,200
But then you need the end of
this to be live because you need

1378
01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:00,520
to get the, the, the performers
face in the picture.

1379
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:04,440
So we'll coordinate with those
guys to be like, how much of

1380
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:08,640
this, what do you guys need to,
to handle for the VFX side

1381
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:10,240
versus what do we need from the
stunt side?

1382
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,600
We'll coordinate with the set
designers of like this part

1383
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,840
needs to be a breakaway.
This part needs to be soft.

1384
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,120
This part I need the roof flown
out on this building because we

1385
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:25,360
need to come in with wires and
knowing that you don't have a

1386
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,640
live audience looking at it,
you've got a whole different set

1387
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:30,680
of rules of like what can you
see?

1388
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:32,440
What can't you see?
What what lens are we going to

1389
01:17:32,440 --> 01:17:34,600
use on this?
How wide are we shooting this?

1390
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:38,720
It's, it's really fun.
Actually, it's a whole new sort

1391
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,200
of.
Are you sitting with like the

1392
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:46,760
the like stunt people or, or the
DP or like who's who's

1393
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,440
explaining to you what the the
scene is?

1394
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:54,080
The DP, the visual effects
supervisor, the art director,

1395
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:58,160
slash set designer, stunt
coordinators, and they're sort

1396
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:01,320
of different types of stuff.
Like there's if there's a lot of

1397
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:03,400
driving and like if you're doing
a Fast and Furious, they'll be a

1398
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,320
driving coordinator that has no
idea what we do with the wire

1399
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:07,920
stuff.
But then they'll be a ring

1400
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,440
coordinator who knows more with
the wire you.

1401
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,960
Know that's but like how how
much are you involved in in like

1402
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:20,040
so will they say we want a guy
to fly from here to here in

1403
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:26,200
seven seconds and he needs to be
doing, you know, this type of

1404
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,080
like, I mean, they'll talk to
the performer about what whether

1405
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:31,040
he needs to move this way or
that way or whatever.

1406
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,200
But is it kind of like that or
is it?

1407
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:35,880
Yeah, it varies.
Like on the on the bigger

1408
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,200
superhero things, they'll do
animatics previous basically.

1409
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:43,000
So we'll see if he's got a
cartoon of what they want up to

1410
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,440
the full on director going.
Can you guys do something cool

1411
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:47,280
here?
You know, and we'll come up with

1412
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,560
something like on the on the
spot, you know, where we grab a

1413
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:52,920
stunt performer that we know has
this acrobatic skills or

1414
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:54,320
whatever.
I'm like, hey, can you do this?

1415
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,600
We're going to do a thing.
And you know, so it's everything

1416
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:02,400
from we know exactly what we
want to we got to fill up 150

1417
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,040
frames of film here with
something cool, you know.

1418
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,000
Yeah.
Wow, that's cool.

1419
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:09,680
So sometimes you actually get to
sit down with, you know, with

1420
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:12,480
your thinking cap on and go, Oh
yeah, what what can we do here?

1421
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:15,800
This is really interesting.
Yeah, it's not just a.

1422
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:19,080
Same old boring flying person
across the stage or whatever.

1423
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,200
No, it's it's a good time.
Yeah.

1424
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:25,360
Were you involved on what?
Was it not Superman, Spider Man

1425
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,440
in on Broadway, The Jerry Harris
thing?

1426
01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:31,480
Yeah, we did all the performer
flying.

1427
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,160
Oh wow, a lot of that.
That was Anton on that.

1428
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,560
Yeah, there was a lot of that.
God, they spent money on that.

1429
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,320
Show that.
Was a that was a that was an

1430
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:46,160
amazing system and it's kind of
a shame that it got a bunch of

1431
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:49,120
bad breasts for all the wrong
reasons, but.

1432
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:52,280
Yeah, it did.
Yeah, landing a guy in the

1433
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:59,520
aisles and on the balconies and
it was, you know, live was we

1434
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,160
were, we were proud, we were
proud of that.

1435
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,680
And it was a shame that we
couldn't really town it as much

1436
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:08,000
as we did because.
It just didn't last long enough

1437
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:12,920
to be too exciting.
What about Cirque du Soleil?

1438
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:14,960
Like, you did a bunch of stuff
with them, right?

1439
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:16,480
Yes.
Or just.

1440
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,080
Yeah, a lot.
Yeah, I did a bunch of stuff

1441
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:23,080
with them early, like on O
building the theater and the

1442
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,360
stair and that kind of stuff.
And then later Cirque has been

1443
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:29,160
gradually transitioning
everything to navigator, even

1444
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:30,720
the older systems in the older
theaters.

1445
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:36,440
So Cirque's basically a
navigator client now.

1446
01:20:36,440 --> 01:20:40,440
Like like like Disney's and the
other big guys, that's how they

1447
01:20:40,440 --> 01:20:43,360
do their automation now.
So yeah, yeah, we were involved

1448
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:48,840
with a bunch of those retrofits.
And was Sirk like similarly,

1449
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,640
were you involved in some of the
creative process and stuff or

1450
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,440
were they just like put this
here, do this and then get out

1451
01:20:54,440 --> 01:20:57,040
of the way or?
I was involved in a lot of the

1452
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:00,720
creative process earlier in my
career when I was when I was

1453
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,160
more in the project management.
Yeah.

1454
01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:05,720
Later when we were more of a
vendor to them, they basically

1455
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:09,440
told us what they wanted.
Yeah, they had people on their

1456
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:12,080
team that that managed that side
of it, yeah.

1457
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,200
You know, it was, it was a
collaboration, but it was not as

1458
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,640
much of a clean sheet as it
would have been being part of

1459
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,320
the actual cert team.
Yeah, I get it.

1460
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:23,920
I completely get it.
So when do you leave on your

1461
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:28,600
next journey?
I'd say about a month or so.

1462
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,440
I'll probably I have a friend
who's doing some Backcountry

1463
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:35,760
guiding in Alaska this summer,
so I want to go and do a little

1464
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,960
visit and maybe have a couple of
old adventures out there.

1465
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:42,160
Wow, that's cool.
Yeah, I've been to a Nuvik.

1466
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:47,000
I I played in a band in my early
years and we got a call from

1467
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,200
from our agent during one of our
rehearsals.

1468
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,120
It wasn't even an agent.
I think it was an agent.

1469
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:55,920
It wasn't our agent because we
hadn't even put our name out yet

1470
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:57,920
or anything.
We were just rehearsing and they

1471
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:03,720
said, hey, we got this gig, it's
for, for 14 or 16 weeks in the

1472
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:07,000
same club.
And we went, OK, we'll take it.

1473
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,720
And well, don't you want to know
how much you'll make?

1474
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,560
Yeah, yeah.
How much will we make?

1475
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:13,760
It's 3500 a week or whatever,
right?

1476
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:18,280
We said, OK, we'll take it.
And so we're like all excited

1477
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:20,080
and stuff.
And then he calls us back and he

1478
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,240
goes, by the way, what's your
band called?

1479
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,400
And we didn't have a name yet.
We were just rehearsing.

1480
01:22:24,440 --> 01:22:27,680
So we we had a bottle of
Silhouette Vodka in the center

1481
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:31,680
of the table, and we said,
Silhouette, we're called

1482
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,360
Silhouette.
And he went, OK.

1483
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,480
And so then they hung up again
and we called him back and said,

1484
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:38,680
hey, where's this gig?
And he says Anuvik.

1485
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:40,280
And we're like, where's that?
Where?

1486
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,120
Yeah, where's Anuvik?
And he goes, oh, don't worry

1487
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:44,720
about it, we'll talk about that
later.

1488
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,840
I mean, it's like at the top of
the friggin world, you know?

1489
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,000
I've driven that road from
Dawson City, although we have to

1490
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,720
talk through Anuvik and you
basically run out of Canada.

1491
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,200
You went to Takhta Yakhta?
Yeah.

1492
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,480
Wow.
Yeah, cuz that was what, like 60

1493
01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:01,960
miles or something past Anuvik?
Or 40 miles or something.

1494
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:06,680
Yeah, because so the the place
we played at in Anuvik was just

1495
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:10,640
a Tavern in a hotel, right?
And people would come in on the

1496
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:14,240
weekends from Tuk Toyak Tuk
because Tuk was Tuk Tuk was dry.

1497
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:17,600
I don't know if it still is, but
at the time it was dry.

1498
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:20,560
So they'd come in and party like
animals on the weekend, all the

1499
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:25,400
people working the oil rigs and
stuff and, and it'd just be nuts

1500
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:27,560
there.
Like we had so much fun for

1501
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:32,080
about the first five or six
weeks and then it was just like,

1502
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:35,000
oh God, can we please about.
In the middle of the tundra with

1503
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:36,480
nothing.
Well.

1504
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,600
I mean, first we get there,
there's no air conditioning in

1505
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:42,920
our hotel and it's sunny 24
hours.

1506
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,800
Of course, you know, because it
was late June when we got there.

1507
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,360
So it's light out.
And there's these Ravens that

1508
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,840
are as big as freaking, you
know, humans practically.

1509
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,720
And they sit on your window
ledge and they're, they're just

1510
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:58,320
going right, making this loud
noise and you can't sleep.

1511
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:01,880
And, you know, it's bright and
sunny and it's hot in your room.

1512
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:05,520
And so like then we started
meeting people and they take you

1513
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:08,520
water skiing after the gig.
Like at two or three in the

1514
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,000
morning, you'd go out water
skiing because it's still light

1515
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,200
out.
And or we went, there was a guy

1516
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,920
and when I look back, it wasn't
the smartest decision, but this

1517
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:22,680
guy would drink in the bar at
night while we were playing and

1518
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:28,600
then he'd go, hey guys, you want
to go out fishing, float plane

1519
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:30,280
fishing.
And we're like, OK, sure.

1520
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:32,160
You know.
So now we're going with a drunk

1521
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:36,080
pilot landing on some lake and,
and fishing for lake trout,

1522
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:38,560
which was really cool.
I mean they had like friggin

1523
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,560
2530 LB lake trout there.
And fishing's great up there.

1524
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:43,920
That's crazy.
It's just wild.

1525
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,760
So yeah, it was, it was one of
the more weird experiences of my

1526
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:53,240
life, but it was somewhere
between amazing and horrific all

1527
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:54,960
at once.
That's the best experiences are

1528
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,760
right?
Yeah, but I've never spoken to

1529
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,440
somebody who said yeah, Oh yeah,
I drove that highway and went up

1530
01:25:00,440 --> 01:25:05,160
to Tuck Toyota Tech or the the
ICE Rd., which is only open for,

1531
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:06,840
you know, so much of the year
or.

1532
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:08,160
What?
I was up there in the summer

1533
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:09,960
too, where I was dailing all the
time and you see all the

1534
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,000
abandoned snowmobiles along the
road from the.

1535
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:17,440
Winters Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and so we drove a school bus

1536
01:25:17,440 --> 01:25:20,080
because after we got this gig,
we went and bought a yellow

1537
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,920
school bus and painted it and
and cleared out all the seats so

1538
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:26,080
we could put our gear in it
because that's what you did back

1539
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,040
then.
And we drove up there in a

1540
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:30,080
school bus, a converted school
bus.

1541
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:33,800
And it was funny because back
then I smoked weed.

1542
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:38,960
And so we bought like a pound of
this Hawaiian something or other

1543
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,160
weed.
And we were like, OK, yeah, this

1544
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,520
will last US 16 weeks.
It was gone by the time we got

1545
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,400
to a new bit because what else
were you going to do, you know?

1546
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,480
And and yeah, so that was quite
an experience.

1547
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:55,360
So Alaska will be cool.
Yeah, yeah, I've been up before.

1548
01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:58,880
There were a couple there.
Last time I was up there, there

1549
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,280
were some big wildfires.
So there were places I wanted to

1550
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,520
go that yeah, either you
couldn't get to or the the smoke

1551
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:06,560
was so bad and it wasn't worth
going kind of thing.

1552
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:08,680
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm hoping it's a little

1553
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:10,840
nicer this year.
Well if you're ever going

1554
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:15,120
through Banff again, look me up
and and stop in for a coffee or

1555
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:19,480
a beer or whatever.
Say hello because I'm I'm up

1556
01:26:19,480 --> 01:26:22,560
there pretty much all summer
every year now but like from May

1557
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,720
or June until October ish.
Yeah.

1558
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:29,360
Well, when I if, if I, if this
trip does pan out, I'll, I'll be

1559
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:32,680
coming up through that so I can.
Show Yeah, yeah, absolutely do

1560
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,640
so and and you know, I'm my
house is just very close to the

1561
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:40,160
highway.
So, you know, you could just pop

1562
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:44,240
in and have a beverage or adult
beverage, whichever you prefer

1563
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:47,400
and say hello and and have a
nice view of the mountains

1564
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,280
before you drive through them.
So you're going to drive up,

1565
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,680
you're going to drive to a last.
Oh yeah, you are a madman.

1566
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,320
Yeah, I like a good round trip.
Do you?

1567
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:02,800
Yeah.
My my my my sort of Backcountry

1568
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,640
off it is.
I've got a Toyota Tacoma out of

1569
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,480
the rack and I bring a tent and
I throw a kayak up on the rack

1570
01:27:09,480 --> 01:27:12,160
and take off, basically.
And it's so cool.

1571
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:15,440
By yourself, yeah.
And you meet people along the

1572
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:17,960
way and.
That is so awesome.

1573
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,640
Hang out.
Yeah, it's really awesome.

1574
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:25,000
It's it's I didn't realize how
different it was to travel that

1575
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:26,000
way.
Like usually people go on

1576
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:29,280
vacation and they go to places,
but they've got two weeks or

1577
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,600
they've got whatever.
But traveling where you don't

1578
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:36,480
really have a destination or a
schedule, yeah, is wildly

1579
01:27:36,480 --> 01:27:38,440
different.
It's like, oh, this place is

1580
01:27:38,440 --> 01:27:39,840
cool, I'll just stay here for a
few more days.

1581
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,720
Or, you know, somebody at the
bar tells you about this cool

1582
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,320
thing to go see over there and
you just go over there and spend

1583
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:48,480
a couple days.
I'm very envious of you because

1584
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:50,520
that that to me sounds
incredible.

1585
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:52,360
Like that may really sounds
incredible.

1586
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:54,280
I don't know that I didn't.
Realize how cool it was till I

1587
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:56,280
did it.
I don't know that I could do it

1588
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,000
by myself.
I'd have to convince either my

1589
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:02,800
girlfriend or my son to to rough
it with me for for a while.

1590
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,720
But I mean, just the whole
concept of, you know, hey, I

1591
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,480
like it here.
I'm going to stay an extra week.

1592
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:10,640
That is amazing to me.
Like, that just never happens

1593
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:12,720
because everything's so
structured and scheduled.

1594
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,080
In my life, you know,
ridiculously lucky to be able

1595
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:18,160
to, to travel.
Like that what I want.

1596
01:28:18,200 --> 01:28:19,800
Yeah, you are.
That's so cool.

1597
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:23,160
And so when you go though, do
you make plans?

1598
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,680
Like do you say, OK, I'm going
to go here and then here and

1599
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,280
then here And like, do you have
an entire plan or?

1600
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:29,040
Do you?
Not really.

1601
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:32,120
Usually it's just I have a
general direction like on this.

1602
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:34,360
If I go to Alaska, I know I'll
need to end up where my friend

1603
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:38,760
is, and I'll kind of look at a
map and go, oh, that looks cool,

1604
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,160
or I haven't been there yet or
whatever, and I'll connect the

1605
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:44,720
dots and yeah, usually I get
sidetracked halfway through and

1606
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:46,520
go somewhere else that I wasn't
planning on going, you know?

1607
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:50,520
Well, I mean, if you love
nature, there's so many

1608
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,880
beautiful places to go on the
way and.

1609
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,600
And also while you're there.
And yeah, yeah.

1610
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:58,400
Northern BC is amazing.
And oh, it really is.

1611
01:28:58,560 --> 01:28:59,960
It really is.
It's beautiful.

1612
01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:03,440
Northern Alberta is a dump.
You know, it's just oil wells

1613
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:07,720
and Fort McMurray, which is not
my favorite place to the ground,

1614
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,800
right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did actually

1615
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,640
a few years ago and Jasper last
year.

1616
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:16,720
Yeah, Oh yeah, Jasper.
Jasper was terrible last year.

1617
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:21,080
I mean, it's, it's I, I haven't
been back there yet, but I hear

1618
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:24,280
it's, you know, pretty back,
like a lot of it's back.

1619
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:29,320
But yeah, it was terrible last
year when Jasper burned.

1620
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:33,960
We had some very nasty days in
Canmore where the smoke was just

1621
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:35,600
blowing straight through from
there.

1622
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,240
But it got me thinking and
calling my insurance company and

1623
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:41,600
saying, what if, you know, am I?
Covered to this.

1624
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:45,720
Well, because, I mean, we're
basically in the woods and we're

1625
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:49,120
in a wooden house, you know,
and, and at the end of the day,

1626
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:52,200
bad things can happen.
So, yeah, it got me thinking for

1627
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:54,480
sure, even though I've had this
house for 20 years.

1628
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,520
But yeah, well, I appreciate you
taking the time.

1629
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:02,280
This has been educational for me
and and enjoyable too.

1630
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:05,320
I'd rather sit and talk about
your, your Backcountry stuff

1631
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:09,880
than than light automation.
Yeah, no, but I didn't know

1632
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,240
anything about automation.
So I love learning new things.

1633
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,680
So I, I definitely appreciate
you sharing that.

1634
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:19,160
And good luck on your trip.
And seriously, if you ping me,

1635
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:21,120
if you do go through.
Yeah, for sure.

1636
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:23,120
Yeah.
I've got friends in Calgary that

1637
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:26,000
I usually visit on the way, so
that's right next to her, yeah.

1638
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:28,960
Yeah, well, I was born in a
little tiny town outside of

1639
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:31,800
Calgary, but I grew up in
Calgary since I was, I don't

1640
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,640
know, 5 or 6.
So yeah.

1641
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:36,360
Calgary.
The Calgary friends are actually

1642
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:38,720
from the Datsun trip.
Oh really?

1643
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,560
He's a fellow Datsun owner and
just dropped me a random e-mail

1644
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,120
going hey you can come stay at
my house if you want.

1645
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:44,480
Like I'd never met the dude
before.

1646
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:47,560
We've been training.
We've been finals now for for 12

1647
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:49,160
years.
So that's really cool.

1648
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:52,040
That's, you know, that's the
cool thing about being in those

1649
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:55,640
sort of passion club kind of
things, whether it's cars or

1650
01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:56,920
whatever.
The matter or?

1651
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:58,920
Something it's like, yeah,
exactly.

1652
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,320
You're a good guy.
Stay in my house.

1653
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,560
I don't know you, but.
Yeah, it you know, it's funny

1654
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:08,520
because younger people now like
my son is just turned 21 and my

1655
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:15,360
sister has a 240Z that is
probably, I don't know what year

1656
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:20,120
it even is 80 something.
Yeah, I think it's an 80

1657
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:22,240
something.
I'm not sure though.

1658
01:31:22,480 --> 01:31:28,680
But it's a it's a Nissan.
It's not a Datsun and anyways my

1659
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,360
son wants it.
So he, he's like working her on

1660
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:32,960
it.
Like you don't drive that thing

1661
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:34,280
anymore.
Like what are you going to do

1662
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,520
with it?
You know, cuz he's, he's just

1663
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,440
old school, you know, he doesn't
want like a new sports car, he

1664
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:42,280
wants an old one.
Like even vets, he doesn't want

1665
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:45,280
AC-8 vet, he wants AC 6 vet or
AC-5 vet.

1666
01:31:46,480 --> 01:31:50,160
So yeah, anyways, all right,
Scott.

1667
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:53,400
Well, thank you so much and good
luck to you on your travels.

1668
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:55,120
And I hope to see you at some
point.

1669
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:58,200
And Sarah will be in touch
letting you know when this

1670
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:00,400
episode launches and stuff.
It'll be in a week or so.

1671
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:02,280
OK, sounds good.
Cool.

1672
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:04,480
Have a good one, all right.
All right, take care.