#311 - Gregg Brunclik - Navigating Retirement: A Personal Journey

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You know, we were talking before
about me retiring, not retiring.

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And you know, I, I was
struggling early on with, at my,

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when I got to the age where I
felt like I should start wanting

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to do personal stuff, but I, I
took on ACEO not from our

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industry resume was incredible.
You know, it looked like a rock

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star, but I took him on because
I, I knew it was going to be

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hard to mentor my sons as their
boss and their father.

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And so I took on ACEO to mentor
my sons, which happened to be

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just 3-4 months before COVID.
And he ended up having to deal

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with all kinds of other things
outside of mentoring my sons,

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like renegotiating, you know,
leases and stuff like that.

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But at the end of the day, when
he did get back to actually

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focusing on, you know, his
primary duties here, it wasn't a

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good cultural someone from
outside the industry, no matter

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what their business chops are.
It it just, you know, we're a

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special breed.
And as I've said many times

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since about this particular guy,
he's probably an awesome manager

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of 300 people in cubicles, but
that's not who we are.

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Hello and thanks for checking
out another episode here today.

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So I don't know if you heard or
saw the Benoit Richard episode

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yesterday.
Well, it was recorded for me

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yesterday, but I don't know when
you're seeing this or when you

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might have seen or heard that
one.

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But it's a great list.
And if you haven't heard the

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latest Benoit Richard podcast,
which I'm not even sure the

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episode number, but check it out
because this guy has made two

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careers from one really great
things to learn and to teach in

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this episode, especially if
you're considering some sort of

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a pivot in your lighting career,
sound career, whatever career.

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The the real probably message
here is that there's something

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on the other side.
You know, there's there's green

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grass still on the other side,
there's grazing available on the

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other side.
And you know, he really made the

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best of a rock'n'roll touring
career.

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And since that time, he's really
become a rock star in the in the

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TV and film lighting arena.
So please do check it out and.

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What else?
In the world of AI, there's a

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lot of buzz on this
collaboration between ChatGPT

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and Shopify.
It's really changing a lot and

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has already started to change a
lot about how things are being

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purchased or going to be
purchased online, especially

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when you're using AI to search
for things or to search, you

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know, to to shop basically.
And maybe you don't think you're

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shopping, but you might be
shopping.

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And so they've collaborated with
a lot of AI to create a shopping

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experience online within ChatGPT
and within open AI and within

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future products that haven't
even been thought of yet.

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And you know, really, I think
it's the first time in history

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that I would say that Amazon
really has some competition

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coming.
Like they've done things so well

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at Amazon, but I think finally
now not based on the fact that

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they're going to be cheaper or
it's like Temu where it's, you

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know, just bottom dollar stuff
coming from China or whatever

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this is.
This is bigger than that.

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And I think, you know, finally
we're seeing an opportunity for

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the small sellers out there to
sort of group together and use

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these bigger platforms to really
grow their businesses and to be

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able to compete with the Amazons
of the world.

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So it's going to be interesting
to see how it all plays out.

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But I would watch for this
collaborate collaboration

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between between Shopify and Open
AI.

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And has anyone out there
listening to this or watching

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this right now ever engaged yet
with AI agents?

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And it's also known as sort of
the world of a gentic AI, it's

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called.
And you know, it's basically

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where you're creating these AI
agents who behave almost like

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human assistants, I guess I
would say.

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And instead of just like LLM
large language models, which are

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just able to answer questions or
communicate with you in sort of

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a question answer sort of way,
these are able to not only do

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those same things, but in a
bigger picture, this form of AI

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actually performs tasks like
human sort of tasks based on

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simple prompts.
So you could tell an AI, for

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example, that I need to go to
London to visit so and so from

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whatever lighting company in
London.

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And it'll not only give you a
list of flights, but you know,

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it'll know your likes and
dislikes.

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It'll know all of your different
preferences, whether you like

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aisle or window seats, the
airlines and hotels, whether you

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fly business or coach, whether
you upgrade your flights or pay

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for those business class seats.
Everything that a real travel

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agent or a real assistant who
works for you would know, like

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an executive assistant.
And from there it'll look

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through your calendar.
It could look at communications

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you've had back and forth with
that customer that you're going

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to see in London.
What else it could It could

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schedule, it could see what your
schedule.

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Looks like it could.
Look at the agenda for this set

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of meetings or this meeting and
schedule flights, hotel, dinner

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reservations.
It could block time off on your

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calendar if you haven't already
done that.

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And really it could also
coordinate any changes,

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cancellations, etcetera on that
on that journey.

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So you know, right now it's
obviously playing out really

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heavily in coding.
Like you're seeing websites and

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apps and all kinds of technology
being created using AI to do all

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the coding.
That is incredible.

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I've been paying a lot of
attention to that recently, but

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I think, you know, we're going
to see a lot more of this

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agentic AI happening where like
my company today, like we're

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starting to see our org chart
shape up with human people,

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human agents, human salespeople,
human whatever.

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And also these agents, these AI
agents as well.

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And as we continue to hire
people, we're also going to be

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continuing to build agents.
And I keep hinting, but we are

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building a platform that's
heavily based on this technology

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right now, and we expect to
launch it in July.

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And so I'll continue to tell you
more about that going forward.

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So today on the podcast, Greg
Brownclick is the founder and

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Chairman of Clearwing
Productions, Inc, a live event

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production company he
established in 1985.

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With over 40 years in the
industry, Greg built Clearwing

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into a trusted provider of full
service production support

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including audio, lighting,
staging, video and backline

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services for events of all
sizes.

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From intimate presentations and
corporate general sessions to

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large scale concerts, multi
stage festivals and presidential

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appearances, Greg's experience
spans every corner of live

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production.
Known for his calm leadership

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and deep technical knowledge, he
brings a solutions first mindset

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to every project.
Greg has been a leader in

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comprehensive production and
stage management services,

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offering clients a seamless one
stop shop for technical

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execution and event
coordination.

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His legacy is rooted in
precision, professionalism and a

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passion.
For elevating the live

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experience, please welcome Greg
Brentclick.

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It is high tech we got a
countdown how do you like that

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that's nice.
You know, I wanted to have like

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a little dancing person going
across the screen with the

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countdown, like with little
cards going 5-4 Yeah, right.

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But the.
Clap or.

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Something like that, you know,
But I guess the budget went away

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on that and we weren't able to
do it.

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But do what you.
Can with what you got This works

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for me.
Yeah, exactly.

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And of course, every time I get
an audio company person on an

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audio guy, their sound is the
worst.

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And so, Greg, you have not
disappointed.

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Your sound, your mic is
terrible.

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Well, I I used the term the last
time we talked that I have a

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stereo defecator inserted on my
mic line.

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But I don't, it's just, I'm just
talking to, I'm talking to a

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computer.
So we get what we get.

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Yeah, no, it's all good.
It's all good.

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And you know, the good thing
about my podcast is I've set the

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bar pretty low, so.
So it's pretty easy to get over

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it.
You know, it's pretty easy to

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come up and go.
Yep, I did great.

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I'm just kidding.
We've had incredible guests on,

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of course, including yesterday I
recorded a, a really great

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podcast.
Do you know Benoit or Ben?

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Richard worked at high end for a
number of years and then went

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out with Metallica and John
Broderick and was Matchbox, 20s

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LD and a few other bands.
And then he just decided, hey

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look, I'm not seeing my family
as much as I really should be.

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I've got a new daughter.
My wifes probably going to leave

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me if I keep touring.
And he said I'm done.

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And he went and got his union
card in LA, in Hollywood and

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started doing TV and film and
he's just risen right to the

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top.
You know, he's, he's just really

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kicking ass in in LA.
So it's really cool to see

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somebody turn a career into two
careers, you know, and, and just

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completely pivot.
We persevere.

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Yeah, that's what we do.
And we learned it in the

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entertainment business, didn't
we?

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We kind of did.
Like, show us, go on.

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If there's something that sort
of mimics the military, you

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know, it must be this business,
you know, the the production

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world, like where not only does
the show go on, but you always

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have to find there's always a
way to do it.

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You know, there's a way to get
this done.

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And you know, I can't think of
many other businesses, I guess

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maybe some medical stuff, but
but the military and, and our

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business are just so intuitive
and so creative with, with

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coming up with ways to solve
very unique problems.

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There's no question about that.
Yep, yeah, I love that.

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I love that about our industry.
You know, I think while you and

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I, we'll get into some of the
conversations we had during

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COVID, but while, while we were
talking, at one point, I think

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we had that conversation, which
is just like, let's just hand

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this to, to our industry and
we'll solve COVID.

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You know, we can fix this.
We can do safe shows and have

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people in seats and, and people
earning a living so that they're

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not, you know, desperate and,
and going bankrupt and losing

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their houses and stuff.
But no.

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One had the vision to give us
that opportunity so.

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Not really, no.
God, it took a long time, you

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know, and that was another thing
that came out on this recording

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that I did yesterday with Ben
was he actually didn't want to

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talk to a lot of people during
COVID because he was working and

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they weren't.
And he felt it was like guilt,

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you know, like, what do they
call it?

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Survivor's remorse or survivor's
guilt or something.

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And so he was feeling that
because he was very gainfully

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employed, like doing a bunch of
Netflix stuff and whatever and

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he was working like crazy and
never stopped.

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Like he, he was out of work for
I think 3 months, he said.

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And that was it.
He was gangbusters.

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After that, well.
Good for him.

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It was a much longer stretch for
some of us, but.

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Yeah, it sure was.
Yeah, still here.

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So it was, yeah, I, I remember,
I remember, you know, you were

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one of the people that I
remember an awful lot during

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COVID because I know that things
got a little tough for you for a

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while, like so many people.
And I remember one conversation

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where you said something almost
political, like almost against

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the tribe with regard to COVID,
and you just got completely

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attacked.
Like it was just like all your

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friends just announced on you on
on Facebook or whatever it was

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I've.
I've taken a lick here and there

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in my life for sure.
Yeah, I, I think I called you

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and I just said, Greg, I just
want to give you like a, a

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telephone hug, you know, because
that is crazy what's going on

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right now.
I.

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Appreciated that.
Yeah, You know, in the end we

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survived.
We had a a model during COVID,

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survive and Thrive and we were
in survival mode for a while and

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we got some help like a number
of other companies in the

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country.
And then we we switched our

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perspective to Thrive.
And and get back.

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On the horse and and build and
things have been going super

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well since we had a great year
last year with the political

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campaigns we do a lot of.
That work every year I guess.

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00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,200
So, you know, I can't complain
about a thing.

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00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,400
I, I, I think the best thing
about the way that I personally

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00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,120
dealt with COVID is I probably
shared I'm a 12 step a, a guy.

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00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,120
Right.
So yeah.

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00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,120
Even though COVID could have
been the most catastrophic thing

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00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,200
that ever happened to our
business, our industry, our

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00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,160
lives, I never worried about it.
You.

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00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,040
Know, I, I just had this
philosophy that was going to be

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00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,240
whatever would be would be and
you know, whatever happened,

234
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:13,160
we'd be OK.
And so it's all good.

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00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,320
Today's episode is brought to
you by Elation Lighting.

236
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,920
Elation is a privately held
corporation established in 1992

237
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,840
and headquartered in Los
Angeles.

238
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All products are developed and
engineered in the USA with sales

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and support office locations in
the US, Mexico and Europe and

240
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distribution via a worldwide
dealer network.

241
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,800
What defines excellence?
Is it found in form, function,

242
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,960
or sheer strength?
Perhaps it calls for more.

243
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,440
It's unconventional, searching
beyond what can be seen.

244
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,440
It moves with grace, intent and
versatility.

245
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,520
While others are content to
remain unchanged, a true hero

246
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,480
rejects the ordinary and
embraces transformation.

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00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,040
They ascend and become the
paragon.

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00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,160
Complaints.
Yeah, you know, it is, it's hard

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00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,520
to even look back at, you know,
like I think of this often,

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00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,840
like, you know, 10 years from
now, how am I going to explain

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00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,520
that to like grandkids or
something?

252
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,160
You know, Like how do you, how
do you tell young, young people

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00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,960
who didn't really go through
that exactly what that was and,

254
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,920
and what happened and, you know,
why it happened and all that

255
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:47,760
kind of stuff?
Like it?

256
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,800
It's a tough conversation 'cause
it's like, it still doesn't make

257
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,280
sense to me.
Right, but unfortunately,

258
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,280
history does repeat itself and
they'll have their chance with

259
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,480
something in their lives.
You.

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00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,600
Know that's one of my biggest
prayers is that my children you

261
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,840
know are are OK in the world
that is continues to morph into

262
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,840
something I don't understand
these days I mean that's that's

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00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,520
you know I I'm an old school cat
you know I'm still analogue guy

264
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,800
I have trouble getting my head
around AI and all the other

265
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:17,960
things so.
Right.

266
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,960
Yeah, I'm glad to be.
I'd say I'm glad to be old some

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00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,400
days, but.
Well, you know what?

268
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,160
And I'll tell you what's funny
'cause I'm old too, but I, I am

269
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,320
really into the whole AI thing
and it deeply.

270
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,440
Like I'm building a couple of
businesses around AI right now

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00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:40,840
within our industry and, and I
get so excited about it that

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00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,000
like I go the opposite
direction.

273
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,680
I wish I was younger 'cause I
want to spend more time working

274
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,280
with AI to to become better, to
make a better place, a better

275
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,520
planet, a better life, a better
whatever, right?

276
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,600
Not to make more money.
I don't care it it's more about

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00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,600
just wow, think of the diseases
we can do away with completely.

278
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,280
We're going to obliterate
disease.

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00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,079
My only concern with AI is what
it'll do to employability for

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00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,920
people and whether or not it's
going to run hundreds of

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00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,720
thousands of people that work.
That's obviously one of the main

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00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,359
concerns.
So the the two big AI concerns

283
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:22,319
are that and what about AI is
like, you know, a gun in, in the

284
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,119
right hands, it saves you, in
the wrong hands, it kills you

285
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:31,120
and and AI in the wrong hands
certainly can become a weapon

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00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:38,520
for very bad things.
You know, I just believe that

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00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,080
the world is going to figure
that one out and and have have

288
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,920
enough senses to say we need to
put up guardrails on this.

289
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,520
We need to make sure because it
is going to be smarter than us

290
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,200
in not very much time.
It's going to be within the next

291
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,000
few years.
It's going to be smarter than us

292
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,200
completely.
It's already way smarter than

293
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:57,440
me.
The.

294
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,200
Matrix.
Yeah, well, The Matrix, so many

295
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,000
of those movies, they're all
coming true now.

296
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,520
Yeah, for sure.
My youngest son is about to go

297
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,440
off to College in the fall.
And you know, I, I say to him

298
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,800
and you, you sure you don't want
to go into the trades?

299
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,840
You know, I mean the guys in the
trades are making back nowadays

300
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,000
and and AI, as brilliant as it
will be, it's not going to be

301
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,320
able to replace what we do with
our hands, I don't think.

302
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,280
Oh yes it will.
Oh yes, it already is.

303
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,040
AI is going to pull a wire.
AI is going to do all of those

304
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:32,360
things every, you know, watch
that, that show.

305
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:33,680
What's that guy's name?
Roe.

306
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,680
Watch his show Dirty Jobs.
Every one of those jobs is going

307
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,880
to be replaced by robots and AI.
Everyone like look at one of the

308
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,400
ones that they're targeting
already.

309
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,160
Drivers of all kinds, truck
drivers, taxi drivers, Uber

310
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,080
drivers, you know, whatever
drivers, all drivers will be

311
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,000
replaced.
And that's shocking when you

312
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,880
think of that.
But that wouldn't be the first

313
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,240
one that I'd say, OK, they're
going to replace all drivers

314
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,720
with AI.
But but it's happening and it's

315
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,680
probably that's going to happen
relatively quickly, like maybe

316
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,560
in the next 5 or 6 years.
Yeah, we don't have it here in

317
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,400
Wisconsin, but when I go to my
home in Arizona, there's the

318
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,240
Waymo thing, the the driverless
Ubers are all over Phoenix and

319
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,640
that's a little freaky to pull
up next to one of those and.

320
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,240
Oh, you haven't ridden in one
yet.

321
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,640
It's weird as hell.
That is weird.

322
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,320
I'll tell you that.
Well, and now the Tesla ones,

323
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,400
the whatever they're called, you
know Tesla taxis or whatever

324
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,680
they're called, they don't have
a they don't even have a

325
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,480
steering wheel.
It's just a smooth dash like it,

326
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,440
you know, it's they don't even
have a steering wheel, so

327
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,920
they're not even pretending to
be a, you know, a normal car

328
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,040
like they're just saying, hey,
it's.

329
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,600
Freaky.
It is.

330
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,680
It is freaky.
Well, you know, I was talking to

331
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,960
somebody about this yesterday.
Like the thing about these,

332
00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:00,280
these autonomous driving cars,
you know, self driving cars is

333
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,840
that there is a point where if
they're all connected and

334
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,360
they're all self driving and
they're all communicating with

335
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,400
each other, there will be no
more accidents.

336
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,080
But what about when you have
some old ladies in cars and some

337
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,080
crazy young people on
motorcycles and in hot rod cars

338
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,160
and and then some of these
autonomous vehicles, you know,

339
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,800
it could still get messy, like
really messy, you know, so.

340
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,680
Only time.
Only time will tell, right?

341
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:38,480
Yeah, but but I do I, I feel
like most of the jobs that

342
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,080
people, the more, the less
people want to do those jobs,

343
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,520
the more they're going to be
motivated to replace them with

344
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,400
robots and AI.
You know, there's already robots

345
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,760
that are sort of generalists.
Generalist.

346
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,360
Robots that are being created.
I just saw a new thing in China

347
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,160
on one that they've come up with
that's very inexpensive and

348
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,800
really, really good right now,
but is.

349
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,640
That the one that can do
backflips and all.

350
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,320
That yeah, well, most of them
can like that's their that's

351
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,280
their sort of get people excited
trick, you know, but they have

352
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,600
police officers.
I think that was in China that I

353
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,960
saw that where they're doing
flips, the, the police officers

354
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,000
are doing flips, robot police
officers.

355
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,560
But no, there's these ones now
where you could buy one and Elon

356
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,040
is saying they're going to cost
around $30,000.

357
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,840
But you could buy one and
depending what basically code

358
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,560
set you put into it tells it
what job it's going to be doing.

359
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,280
So today it might be a warehouse
worker, tomorrow it could be a,

360
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,120
a house cleaner, the next day it
could be doing yard work.

361
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,000
You know, whatever you want to
program it to do, it'll do.

362
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,760
And so it's not like they need
to be retrained or.

363
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,240
Well, I get all that, but I got
to tell you, I like people.

364
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,680
Me too, I do too.
I like.

365
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,880
People.
So I guess time will tell.

366
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,560
We'll see.
I like some people.

367
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,440
Well, true.
I don't like all people.

368
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:04,840
Some people really suck.
I've done.

369
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,280
Wrong.
I've been done wrong by.

370
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:09,880
A few, yeah, yeah, yeah, some
people suck, but I I agree with

371
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,360
you.
Like that's the weird part.

372
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,040
What's it going to do to all the
social connections and all the,

373
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,320
you know, but the, the people
who talk positively about it,

374
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,400
like Sam Altman, who is the guy
who runs Open AI, he will say

375
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,920
that it enables you to spend
more time with people because

376
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,200
you're not doing the shitty
jobs, you know, you're not doing

377
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,560
the stuff you don't feel like
doing, like yard work or

378
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,440
whatever.
I could see that I guess too.

379
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,000
Yeah, I don't know.
It's it gets spun both ways

380
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,520
depending on if the cup's half
full or half empty, right?

381
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,880
You know?
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401
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If you're negative and and every
all new technology sucks, you're

402
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,840
going to find all kinds of
reasons that this shouldn't be

403
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,040
happening, but it is so.
What do you, what do you think

404
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,240
it'll do to our industry show
business?

405
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,520
And you know, I mean, I don't
think that streaming ever really

406
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,200
caught on.
There's nothing about the energy

407
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,520
of a live show.
Yeah, live shows aren't going to

408
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,560
go away.
So, but what do live shows look

409
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,240
like?
I mean, if you look at some of

410
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:22,320
the most, some of the, the, the
biggest ticket sales, our EDM

411
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,280
shows right now, you know, some
of these EDM festivals are the

412
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,440
biggest festivals.
They are, there are and yet

413
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,080
there's no musicians.
So does there need to be a DJ?

414
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,360
You know, I think at some point
we're going to realize that the

415
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:36,560
DJs just.
Play.

416
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,320
Yeah, I mean, how about having
AI that just feels the crowd and

417
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,120
goes, OK, we should be a little
softer right now, OK, things are

418
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,560
starting to happen and you know,
we need to get going.

419
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,800
Feels the crowd.
Feels the crowd, it just feels

420
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,520
the crowd.
It reads the audience and

421
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,720
figures out what to do.
I don't mean feels the crowd

422
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,040
like in a sick way, I mean feels
the room, you know, figures it

423
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,280
out.
But it's it's a great question,

424
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:08,640
like what's going to happen to
our industry and, and live

425
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,880
shows?
And I don't think live shows are

426
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,800
going away, but I do think AI
generated music is coming in a

427
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,760
big way.
And you know, I think instead of

428
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,800
a mix on Spotify, you're going
to be able to have a completely

429
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,840
custom written mix on Spotify.
So you could put in a genre and

430
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,640
it'll just make up songs in
those genres and you can have

431
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,040
new music going all day long.
Well, I suppose.

432
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,080
On the Labour side, you can
certainly have a robot inhabited

433
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,200
warehouse that goes down aisle 6
and picks this piece of trust

434
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,720
and brings it to the staging
area and a robot that bolts it

435
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,840
together and whatever.
All that, probably.

436
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,800
That stuff, that stuff, I mean,
it'll take time because our

437
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,360
industry is so small, so to get
everything working together like

438
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,040
that will take a long time.
So I don't think we're going to

439
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,440
be one of the first ones.
Where I do see it changing

440
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:08,040
immensely is all the obvious
stuff like audio consoles, you

441
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,840
know, do you really need to do
sound check and do you really

442
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,480
need to do all those things when
you've got AI and, and, and the

443
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,520
thing can basically do it
itself, you know, so lighting,

444
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:26,240
same kind of thing like lighting
will change immensely.

445
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,880
And I don't want to say too much
because I always get shit for

446
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,200
saying it, but you know, do we
really need somebody pushing

447
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,560
buttons?
Do we really need someone

448
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,120
programming every show, you
know, independently, we're going

449
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,120
to learn.
I don't know, like I, I'm not,

450
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,560
I'm not saying we don't.
I'm saying that those questions

451
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,080
are going to be answered in the
future.

452
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:53,480
And, you know, pricing and and
cost controls and all kinds of

453
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,520
things are going to drive that,
you know, so it's it's going to

454
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,360
be interesting.
That's that's for sure.

455
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:02,200
It's going to change.
It's going to be interesting.

456
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,200
It's going to be different, you
know, and more more immediate.

457
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,120
You've got, you know, tariffs,
like what's that do to the

458
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:15,480
landscape?
You know, do do Chinese lighting

459
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,160
brands just disappear?
Of course not, you know, because

460
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,600
I think this is going to be
short term.

461
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,160
But like, what if it wasn't
short term?

462
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,080
You know, people aren't just
going to suddenly pay $25,000

463
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,600
for Chauvet fixtures.
You know, it's just not going to

464
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240
happen, so.
Well, you know, on the front, we

465
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,200
were wondering what we're going
to talk about and we found

466
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,200
something right away.
I mean, that was, I'm not that

467
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,960
AI literate.
So if you're down the rabbit

468
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,520
hole with that stuff, kudos to
you.

469
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,720
I mean, you know that it's an
interesting, it's an interesting

470
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,360
thing for sure.
I just nobody can tell where

471
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,320
it's going to go, I suppose.
Where are the boundaries?

472
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,720
Yeah.
Well, you know, for me why I'm

473
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,880
so excited about it is because
my business will never be PRG,

474
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,160
My business will never be
clearwing.

475
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,440
I'm never going to have more
than maybe 20 employees.

476
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,160
You know, today I won't tell you
exactly our revenue, but we're

477
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,080
doing reasonable revenue with
eight employees and.

478
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,200
We'll probably a good model.
That's a great model.

479
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,760
It's, but it's partially enabled
by this technology, this, this

480
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,760
AI stuff.
And we're going much further

481
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,040
down that rabbit hole to where
not I'm not going to get rid of

482
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,760
people, but instead of adding
like another body for every

483
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,160
500,000 or $1,000,000 in sales,
we'll be adding a body for every

484
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,560
5 or $6 million in sales.
Like I have an org chart now

485
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:49,240
that's starting to combine
people and AI agents basically.

486
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,920
So we have sort of AI, you know,
fake people mixed into the into

487
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,480
this group of, of individuals
and, you know, it's not doing

488
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,400
anything like talking to a
customer and saying, yes, this

489
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,160
one has this many gobos and this
one has this many.

490
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,520
It's not doing any of that
stuff.

491
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,400
But it does do that on the on
the site.

492
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,880
So, you know, if you go to our
live chat, for example, it's fed

493
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,680
a ton of information and it can
have a conversation with you and

494
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,640
it's an AI bot basically, right?
So, and of course you can always

495
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,480
hit give me a human and, and
you'll get someone less smart

496
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,080
than that AI thing.
But so I don't know, I'm excited

497
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,960
about it because I think one of
the things is it, it's an

498
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,960
equalizer.
So it allows a smaller business

499
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,040
to act closer to the bigger
business and to be more

500
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,560
profitable than the bigger
business.

501
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,160
And that, to me, is exciting.
Well, and you know, a couple

502
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,880
minutes ago I said I like people
and I do like people.

503
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,600
But you know, the wouldn't it be
an amazing business model if you

504
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,560
could do hundreds of millions of
dollars a year in revenue with

505
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,440
one or two employees and you'd,
you'd skip all that drama and HR

506
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,040
and all the other stuff that
comes along with people?

507
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,560
You know, in tech that stuff is
happening right now.

508
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,520
Like you're seeing right now,
you're seeing some of the

509
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,080
largest companies ever built
with the least amount of people.

510
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,560
Like you're seeing $100 million
businesses with five employees

511
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,120
now in tech companies or or call
it sub 10, you know, sub 10

512
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,720
employees.
So 10 million per employee.

513
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,600
Like, that's a number that would
have been unheard of 10 years

514
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,240
ago.
So that stuff's kind of

515
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,680
exciting.
You know, the flip side of that,

516
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,240
again, is, is, you know, what do
people who can't find jobs do?

517
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,920
And right now, that's a hard
thought to have 'cause we're so

518
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:47,240
short on on labor in so many
different areas that, yeah.

519
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,120
But you know, again, here's the
thing.

520
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200
Like it's this sort of cyclical
thing that's fueling both sides

521
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,400
so.
Like if I had an egg factory,

522
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,600
you know that that.
Took eggs and processed eggs

523
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,120
from chickens.
I'd be looking at ways to

524
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,920
automate because as the market,
as the world becomes more global

525
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,520
in a sense of business where,
you know, there's less barriers,

526
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,560
less borders, call it.
And I'm not a globalist thinker,

527
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,200
even though I have a global
company.

528
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,840
I do believe you have to, you
know, protect your own country.

529
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,680
But I think it's a global market
at this point for most

530
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,560
businesses potentially.
And as it becomes more and more

531
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,000
global, you know, you have to be
able to compete on global

532
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,200
markets.
And so, you know, one of the big

533
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,160
differences between China and
the US isn't that it's not like

534
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,080
everyone keeps thinking it's all
about cheap labour.

535
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,720
And yes, labour in China is
across the board.

536
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,600
It's going to probably be less
than the United States, but it's

537
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,800
no longer the cheap labour sort
of capital like you got to look

538
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,800
to India and, and Cambodia and
Malaysia and places like that to

539
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:07,920
get really cheap labor now.
But China has automation beyond

540
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,160
what most American factories
have, or North American

541
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:17,200
factories, and the the level of
automation in China and

542
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,920
technology behind that
automation is becoming scary.

543
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,200
It's so good.
You've been there to see this.

544
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,360
I have.
Yeah, I have.

545
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,360
I have not, so yeah.
Oh my God.

546
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,840
Well, and I was there before
too.

547
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,200
So I was there before they had
all this automation where you

548
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,880
had people sitting outside on
the street putting together like

549
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,200
PC boards and stuff because they
didn't have enough room inside

550
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,560
this tiny little sweat box of a
factory.

551
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,200
And it was, it was sad.
It was like they're just really

552
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,560
abusing these people.
Well, that kind of stuff has

553
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,200
moved to other countries now and
China's become, you know, much

554
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,440
bigger thinking and, and you
know, when you see some of the

555
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,960
stuff coming out of their car
factory, the BYD car factory,

556
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,480
it's incredible some of the
stuff they're coming up with and

557
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:06,080
the pricing is just scary low,
you know, so, so anyway.

558
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,200
We were, you know, so we were
touched on labor just a little

559
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,120
bit because, you know, that's
one been one of the biggest

560
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,920
struggles for companies like
mine in the last two years is

561
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,200
and I say to myself, yeah, it's
so hard to find people 1 and

562
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,280
retain them too.
But what are all these people

563
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,680
who don't want to work doing?
How are they paying the bills?

564
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,160
You know, I don't know.
I don't either, you know,

565
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,560
obviously like right at the end
of COVID, we had this sort of

566
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,440
mass movement to more stable
jobs.

567
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,640
Call it like, not that our
industry isn't stable, but like

568
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,240
they got to be home by 5:00 for
dinner with their family or

569
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,600
whatever.
They got proper insurance where

570
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,640
in some cases in our industry,
they don't.

571
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,480
They were paid as employees
instead of contractors in many

572
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,120
cases.
So they got AW 2 and and they

573
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,000
didn't have to travel, you know,
and so we lost a lot of people

574
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,280
obviously to that and most of
them didn't come back.

575
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:08,760
And so, so that was problem one.
Problem 2 was that, oh, look, I

576
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:15,080
got a thumbs up problem.
Problem 2 was that, you know,

577
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,280
our industry grew so much like
all of a sudden everybody and

578
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,760
their dog wanted to go out and
tour and all at the same time,

579
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,719
right?
So obviously there was a huge

580
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,360
bubble where we we didn't have
enough and people just wore

581
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,239
themselves out just working to
the bone as you know, you know,

582
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,560
shorthanded and everything else
and longer days, more days, blah

583
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,320
blah, blah.
So that was a problem.

584
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:38,600
I.
Don't know.

585
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:42,199
I don't know about the other
players, but our experience with

586
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,000
the the freelancers or the
permalancers, the guys who, you

587
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,960
know, want to manage their own
time.

588
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,320
Yeah.
And we, those people are still

589
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,760
all employees.
They're on our payroll, but they

590
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,560
just manage their own time.
Because.

591
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,160
They have to because of work
comp and all that.

592
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,200
Yeah.
But our experience was that when

593
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,400
COVID ended and people came
back, the rates went way up.

594
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,520
People were trying to make up
for lost time or whatever.

595
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,640
And then that first year after
COVID, the, the promoters were

596
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,480
throwing money at us.
They all just wanted to get

597
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,480
shows going again.
And it was manageable that first

598
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,880
year or so.
But since then, the promoters

599
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,200
and what they're willing to pay
for service has normalized, but

600
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,600
the freelancers, perlancers are
still still there.

601
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,480
So, so you know, and at the end
of the day, companies like mine

602
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,200
are on some levels candles
burning at both ends a little

603
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,520
bit.
We're doing well too.

604
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,720
That's a common story that I
hear though, like the the fact

605
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:40,960
that normalizing those prices
meant putting it back to 2019

606
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,440
rates and but yet your costs are
still much higher than they were

607
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,720
in 2019 is basically what you're
going.

608
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,800
Up even more and all the and.
Going up more, yeah.

609
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,120
So yeah, they're like, hey, you
used to be able to do this show

610
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,280
for me for 100 grand.
You know, I know I had to pay

611
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,600
140 last year or the year
before, but if you won't do it

612
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,440
for 100 grand, I'm going to go
somewhere else and then they'll.

613
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,560
Find someone that will do.
It and they'll find someone.

614
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,800
And so, you know, especially I
think it's the small companies

615
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,920
like the five to $10 million
companies are being most

616
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,840
impacted by that because they're
finding themselves either

617
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,240
breaking even or even losing
money, you know, and, and that

618
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,120
obviously isn't sustainable.
So right.

619
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,200
Now, I mean we, we had in late
last year during the political

620
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,840
campaign season, we established
our CapEx budgets for the coming

621
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,400
year of course.
Well, we're rethinking all of

622
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,080
that right at the.
Moment because we're the.

623
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,360
Tariff business and we're not
going to get nearly what we

624
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,720
thought we'd get for the money.
Or whatever, Yeah.

625
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,480
So we're we're dragging our feet
a little bit on some of the

626
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,760
things that we were going to do
just to kind of wait and see if

627
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,360
this is a short term deal or
not.

628
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,560
Yeah, Yeah, that's, that's
crazy.

629
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,840
And you know, we've seen some of
that business, you know, panic

630
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,400
buys where it's like, Yep, we
either cut out the CapEx all

631
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,360
together or we're gonna buy
used.

632
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,600
Can you get us this?
And and by the way, we need it

633
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,080
by you know, 13 days from now or
whatever.

634
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,320
And so I think.
We went, we went through that

635
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,680
too.
We, we had CapEx that we're

636
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,560
gonna spend on, I don't pick X
lighting fixture that we're

637
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,800
gonna buy in, let's say May that
we had to pull the trigger on in

638
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,400
January or February because it
was in stock now.

639
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,640
And if we had to wait for it to
come over from China, it was

640
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,360
going to cost 2025% more.
So we pulled the trigger earlier

641
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,640
in our cycle too.
Yeah, Yeah.

642
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,720
Well, the good news is at least
you got it because, you know,

643
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:35,920
right now you probably wouldn't
because it's going to be 100%

644
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,560
more like I I've heard some
trickery where it's only, you

645
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,080
know, 30 or 40% more, but only
30 or 40%.

646
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,080
Come on now.
Boy, who gets who gets

647
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,640
accustomed to that?
Yeah.

648
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,720
It's not much different than
what we experienced coming out

649
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,040
of COVID with with the supply
chain issues.

650
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,840
Yeah, yeah.
You know, then it was just

651
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,520
supply and now it's, you know,
supply is probably there if

652
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,840
you're willing to pay for it.
Yeah, so it's two different

653
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,640
animals, but.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

654
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,080
That's true.
What a complicated industry.

655
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,400
It really is a hard business.
Like if they taught this in

656
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,960
Harvard Business School or
something, people would be like,

657
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,040
why would I want to do that?
That makes no sense.

658
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,400
Well, and I think for us it's
paid to stay a family owned

659
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,600
small conglomerate of people
because we can turn on a dime

660
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,320
when we need to.
It's not like we got to go to

661
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,880
the boardroom and and have 20
people get a consensus on what

662
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,560
decision we're going to make.
Right, because.

663
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,960
That bogs down the process too,
so we've been fortunate that way

664
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,720
in the ability to turn quickly
when we need to.

665
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:44,280
Yeah, you can make a decision.
Yeah, Yeah, sure.

666
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:46,240
No, that's a, that's a great
point.

667
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,640
And I mean, you know, as you
know, not that many companies

668
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,560
are left in that position.
You know, it's it's changed.

669
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,760
The whole landscape has changed.
And and now, you know, bigger

670
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,960
private equity firms are buying
private equity held companies

671
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,400
from other private equity firms.
And it's just, you know, that

672
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,000
that sort of ball of yarn just
keeps getting weirder.

673
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,320
Well, I mean, the dynamics
started.

674
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,360
I started noticing it when, you
know, the Walmarts and the big

675
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,440
box stores were rolling over the
mom and pop little shops.

676
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,360
And now it's just the big eight
and the small.

677
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,480
I mean, that's.
Yeah.

678
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,120
But it's we're just gonna change
the course of, you know, a

679
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,000
glacier.
Well, but at the same time and,

680
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,000
and you would know this as well
as anyone, are we in an industry

681
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,760
now where unless you have access
to that kind of capital, you're

682
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,840
not going to be able to compete
on many of the bigger shows,

683
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,680
like you're just not going to be
able to do a Taylor Swift or

684
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,920
something like that, right.
Well, I think for certain that's

685
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,200
a factor.
Yeah.

686
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,520
I think another factor for us
is, you know, the companies that

687
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,800
are global and you know, it's
not like we've never shipped a

688
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,960
container somewhere to do a
show, but it's a lot more

689
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,920
cumbersome for us than it is one
of these major international

690
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,680
players that just sends an
e-mail to the Afghanistan.

691
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,000
I'm going to pick a new example
Afghanistan office.

692
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,360
And, and you know, they, they
package it all up there with

693
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,000
everything exactly the same as
it was here in the States,

694
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,960
right?
It's a real advantage for a band

695
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,680
that's doing international
touring.

696
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,360
It's a lot more cumbersome for a
company like mine to Addy up to.

697
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,680
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, No, I I get that that's,

698
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,480
that's, that's a big one right
there.

699
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,920
But it's also, you know, like
you look at some of these

700
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,880
companies who became
international and I won't

701
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,720
mention any names, but one of
the more recent ones bought a

702
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:49,920
company over there and it was a
disaster.

703
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,160
Like it was, they lost so much
money for the first year and a

704
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,200
half, two years, that it just,
it was like, Oh my God, what did

705
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:59,600
we do here?
You know?

706
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,040
Yeah.
And I'm.

707
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,400
Not Privy to knowing anything
about that one, but.

708
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,320
Yeah, yeah.
I'll tell you offline.

709
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,280
I'll tell you offline, but yeah,
you know, and part of that is

710
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,840
cultural.
You know, it's like, I know

711
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,440
businesses who keep saying I'm
going to expand and put an

712
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,280
office in Dubai and, you know,
I'm like, have you ever been

713
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,920
there?
And they say, no, I haven't.

714
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,040
And well, you might want to make
a few trips over and, and really

715
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,720
understand the culture and how
business is done there.

716
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:29,720
And you know what types of
regulations you're going to have

717
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:34,000
to follow and expats and all
this stuff like they like things

718
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,640
done their way, you know, and
even just doing business as, you

719
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,680
know, in a different state or in
a different whatever, like can

720
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,040
be completely different.
So.

721
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,400
Well, and I'm, I'm not, I don't
know enough about private equity

722
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,480
to really testify.
I mean I we get panged by

723
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,440
people.
You know of?

724
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,480
Course all the time.
You're of that size.

725
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,640
I'm of that size, but you know,
my gut says that, you know, when

726
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,400
you get consumed by somebody
like that and it becomes a, you

727
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,840
know, you're held to ratios and
covenants and all this stuff

728
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,680
over 5 to 8 years until they can
roll you over to the next PE

729
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,320
firm.
That's not a.

730
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,520
And in the meantime, you pay,
let's just say $1,000,000 a year

731
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,720
in management fees while you're
trying to meet your ratios.

732
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,360
That's not necessarily a vice.
I want to put my head in, you

733
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:28,280
know, so I'm, I'm much, I, I
really prefer the family owned

734
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,360
dynamic that we have where, you
know, we talk to each other

735
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,640
about what's going to happen.
And but again, I haven't been, I

736
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,840
haven't dealt with private
equity before.

737
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,680
So I don't, but I have talked to
people that have and it's kind

738
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,280
of that dynamic, yeah.
So, well, not every deal, not

739
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,120
every deal has like earn outs
and stuff like that where where

740
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,080
you're lending money back to the
company.

741
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,600
A lot of deals you're just paid
out.

742
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,440
And and then, you know, if you
want to stay on for five years,

743
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,480
you know, they'll pay you a
salary for five years.

744
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,120
If you don't want to, they
usually want you to stay at

745
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,800
least a year so that, you know,
they can figure out where all

746
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,240
the bodies are buried and stuff.
But but yeah, a lot of lot of

747
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:11,200
deals don't involve, you know,
those earn out situations.

748
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,680
I agree with you.
Like it never seems to end well.

749
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,400
Most earn out deals that I see
done don't end up paying out at

750
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,600
the end or I shouldn't say most,
but certainly a lot of them.

751
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,960
And so, yeah, like I've always
said, if I sell my company, I

752
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,560
sell my company.
You write me a big fat check and

753
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,520
I walk away as soon as possible.
Yeah.

754
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,840
You know, clearly there are all
different ways to skin the cat.

755
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,960
You know, depends on how what
your motivation is for wanting

756
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,080
to get out.
Yeah, if you want to get out or

757
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,120
if it's just the right time or
the right deal, Yeah, there's

758
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,920
all kinds of ways that can
happen.

759
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,480
But it's, you know, it's
individual to each.

760
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,880
Person, you have two sons.
I have two sons in the business.

761
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,560
So, you know, that's been a big
factor for me as well as I, you

762
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:05,680
know, I, I, I, I consider with
high priority what they would be

763
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,880
subjected to if I were, if I
were to turn over ownership to

764
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,280
someone else.
So that's, that's a big criteria

765
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,200
for me.
So that's why, you know, that's

766
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,440
another one of the reasons why I
think I'm, I'm a little, I don't

767
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,240
want to say negative about
private equity, but I, it's a

768
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:25,640
different set of criteria than
if, if it would have been, I

769
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,240
don't know the way Bert Perry
got out.

770
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,760
Yeah.
So.

771
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Well, you know what though?
I mean, the other thing is, you

772
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,160
know, like I, I don't have that,
that option.

773
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,640
In other words, you know, my
succession plan is sell the

774
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,800
business because I, my, I have
one son, that's it.

775
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:49,400
And he has shown 0 interest in
working in the business, you

776
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,240
know, even like he just turned
21 couple weeks ago and I said,

777
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:56,280
do you ever want to maybe go out
on a tour?

778
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,080
Do you want to be a pyro guy?
Do you want to be a lighting

779
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,600
guy?
Do you want to, you know,

780
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,120
whatever, I can get you a gig
and you could go test it out for

781
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,880
a year.
And he's just like shown no

782
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,680
interest in it whatsoever.
I know a lot of guys in my

783
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,880
segment of the industry who are
in the same boat, who, you know,

784
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,320
built really nice sized
production companies and they

785
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,360
have nobody in the next
generation that has any interest

786
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,000
in it.
So I think it can go both ways,

787
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,600
but I feel very fortunate to
have.

788
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,240
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Yeah, that's fantastic.

789
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,800
I call the chromosomal
abnormality, Yeah.

790
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,280
Now that's, that's amazing.
I mean, it must also give you a

791
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,920
great source of pride and, and
you know, so and, you know, I've

792
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,440
talked to at least one of your
sons.

793
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,480
I don't remember if I've talked
to both, but you know, smart guy

794
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,480
and, and knows what he's talking
about and stuff.

795
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,600
So, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm
somewhat envious of that

796
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,120
because, you know, for me to sit
here and tell you I'm going to

797
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,960
sell my business, it almost
pains me in the stomach because

798
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,200
I've spent 22 years building it
and, and nurturing it and

799
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,840
nursing and, and helping it
along and stuff.

800
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,120
Blood, sweat and tears.
Yeah, oh, so many, like I could

801
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,080
tell you all of the blood, sweat
and tears stories, but so yeah,

802
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,920
just passing it on to somebody
who can build it bigger and make

803
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,080
loads of money on it.
Well.

804
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,920
But you know, an important piece
of that is, you know, we were

805
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,760
talking before about me
retiring, not retiring,

806
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,120
retiring, not retiring.
Yeah.

807
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,920
And you know, I I was struggling
early on with at my when I got

808
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,920
to the age where I felt like I
should start wanting to do

809
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:31,360
personal stuff more than.
Business stuff.

810
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,240
What was that 20 I?
Much later, yeah.

811
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,280
Yeah.
But I, I took on a, a CEO not

812
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,320
from our industry and resume was
incredible and it looked like a

813
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,520
rock star.
But, and I took him on because

814
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,760
I, it was hard.
I knew it was going to be hard

815
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,720
to mentor my sons as their boss
and their father.

816
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,640
And so I took on ACEO to mentor
my sons, which happened to be

817
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,280
just 3-4 months before COVID.
And he ended up having to deal

818
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,240
with all kinds of other things
outside of mentoring my sons,

819
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,240
like renegotiating, you know,
leases and stuff like that.

820
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,200
But at the end of the day, when
he did get back to actually

821
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,600
focusing on, you know, his
primary duties here, it wasn't a

822
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,720
good cultural.
Fit, you know.

823
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,640
Someone from outside the
industry, no matter what their

824
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,840
business chops are, it it just,
you know, we're a special breed

825
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,320
in this industry.
And I've said many times since

826
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,040
about this particular guy, he's
probably an awesome manager of

827
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,360
300 people in cubicles, but
that's not who we are.

828
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,240
Right.
You know it's so true.

829
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,960
Yeah.
So that didn't go all that well.

830
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,560
And and that's part of the
reason that I came back is

831
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,960
because the people just needed
somebody who think the way they

832
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,080
think.
You know, they could trust that,

833
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,240
you know, my word is my bond.
And I didn't make all my

834
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:57,840
decisions based on ratios.
Yeah, well, you know what, take

835
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,240
pride in knowing that companies
much larger than yours, PRG

836
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,000
have, have struggled with the
same thing.

837
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,320
You know, PRG is, I think on
their 4th CEO in, in a few years

838
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,040
or whatever.
And you know, it generally boils

839
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,040
down to culture.
It's not because the guy's

840
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,360
stupid or or isn't well educated
or is earning too much money or

841
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,320
whatever it is.
It's it's culture.

842
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,920
And when, when you lose your
people, you know, like when your

843
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,160
people don't believe in you,
forget it.

844
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:30,920
It's time to go.
Like you're not going to

845
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,840
convince them to believe in you
once they've decided otherwise.

846
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,640
They've decided you're a schmuck
or you're not a you're not one

847
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,400
of us.
Yep, they're gone.

848
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,840
I.
Had I had well, I had two CE OS

849
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,920
in a row actually, my first guy
went out with a health issue.

850
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,160
I hired another guy from outside
the industry, but it was the

851
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,960
same dynamic basically.
Yeah.

852
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,280
And the second guy went out and
I mean he helped do load

853
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,480
insurance and dump trucks and
and it bought him a lot of St.

854
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,120
Cred, don't get me along.
Yeah.

855
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,560
But when it came to managing the
business and the way those guys

856
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,800
make decisions based on
everything on paper, it just

857
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,640
there just wasn't the ability to
connect with the people out

858
00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:09,800
scanning cable in and out or
whatever.

859
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,760
Right, so.
It it, it had its challenges and

860
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,680
I just had at one point make a
decision or lose some really

861
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,480
good key people just because of
the changes in culture.

862
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:23,760
Yeah, I completely get it.
You know, I, I so even my little

863
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:32,000
business gear source one point,
it was probably around 2007 8,

864
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,040
something like that.
And I had this LED company that

865
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,040
I was growing and it just kind
of took off and, and it started

866
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,040
to get fairly big and needed a
lot of my attention.

867
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:47,040
And so I hired ACOOI wasn't
brave enough to hire a CEO, but

868
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,840
I hired ACOO, which just meant
that, you know, if he was an

869
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,080
asshole, I could put a CEO above
him or I could step in again or

870
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:59,640
whatever, right.
And, you know, it was probably a

871
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,120
year into his reign.
And I went in there on a Sunday

872
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,160
when nobody was around.
I went into that building

873
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,000
because at the time we had a
building and I sat at his desk

874
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,960
and I didn't look at stuff.
I just sat at his desk and kind

875
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,720
of thought and looked around and
I said I got to fire this guy.

876
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,200
Sense the energy.
Yeah, and, you know, people like

877
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,760
I would walk in my building
during the day when when we

878
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,760
were, you know, at the height of
business and it felt like a

879
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,440
morgue, like it just nobody
seemed happy.

880
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,240
Nobody was making noise and
jumping up and down and dinging

881
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:40,480
the bell and whatever, you know.
And I let him go and I'll tell

882
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,920
you how bad it got was my sister
worked for me and right before I

883
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,160
let him go, she she quit and I
was like on the brink.

884
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,320
Of exactly the same thing.
Yeah, I was like on the brink.

885
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,960
What do you mean you quit?
And she says I I just don't want

886
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,320
to talk about it, but I'm I just
can't work here anymore.

887
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:58,360
No, she.
Didn't say for.

888
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,560
Him, She didn't throw him under
the bus, but as soon as I fired

889
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,280
him, she called me and said OK,
I'm coming back now.

890
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,200
And I was like, oh.
That was honorable.

891
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:10,120
That was honorable, yeah.
Yeah.

892
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,560
So yeah, I'm sure you had a
similar dynamic with your son's

893
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,960
saying dad.
Yeah, So one of my son's Max is

894
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,360
now the CEO and president and
the CEO for now, Yeah, he just

895
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,960
gets a few more miles on his
tires.

896
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,520
He's kind of a young buck still.
Yeah.

897
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,200
And my other son Brian is the VP
of production.

898
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,480
Cool.
And then we have Nick Dressler

899
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,440
down in Phoenix who's the, the
VP of, of integration.

900
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,120
So cool.
Well, our our machine is is

901
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,440
running well oiled.
At the moment I.

902
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,240
Got no complaints.
So what?

903
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:43,880
What?
Denver's gone, right?

904
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,440
Yeah, Denver's gone.
Yeah.

905
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,440
You know, I really love Denver
and I was really hoping it would

906
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,160
be a great farm team in the
beginning for us, if you will.

907
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,640
Yeah.
But So what happened was, and I,

908
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,640
I'm not going to throw any darts
at anything or anybody, but what

909
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,280
our experience in Denver was
basically a result of the jam

910
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,640
band Mark.
I mean, it's such a jam band

911
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:11,240
market there that every show is
200 moving lights and pyro and

912
00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:12,840
smoke and lasers and blah, blah,
blah.

913
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:17,480
And so we were supplementing the
Denver shop with gear from

914
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,680
Phoenix and Milwaukee to the
point that Milwaukee and Phoenix

915
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,800
were just ranting and raving
about their, you know,

916
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,360
constantly having to sub rent to
knock out their stuff.

917
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:31,080
So it just became a feasibility
study on sustainability.

918
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,160
And yeah, we just went.
I did.

919
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,160
At the time, I didn't have the
kind of CapEx to sink into

920
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,200
completely setting Denver.
Yeah.

921
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:44,080
Myself at that level, yeah.
So it just was an experiment

922
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,560
that that didn't pan out.
The way, yeah, you split 22

923
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,520
shops into three and.
And the math didn't work at the

924
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,160
end of the day.
Yeah, and.

925
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,720
And then, you know, in fairness,
I didn't have the best of luck.

926
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,440
I want to be a little careful,
but I didn't have the best of

927
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,640
luck with the company I
acquired.

928
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,840
There were.
Some speed bumps there that were

929
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,760
unforeseen.
Even though we did rigorous

930
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,480
diligence, it was more of a
cultural thing and it ended up

931
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,080
going the way that I'd hoped it
would.

932
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,640
So that was then and this is
now.

933
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,520
Yeah, it happens.
Yeah.

934
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,800
No, I, I actually didn't even
realize that it, you know, I

935
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,000
think I was talking to one of
your guys if maybe a month or

936
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,840
two ago.
I didn't even know that you had

937
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,400
closed Denver and it came out on
that call.

938
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:29,840
Oh, no, we don't have Denver
anymore.

939
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,040
And I'm like, oh really?
I didn't know that.

940
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,080
Well, you know.
We made big noise when we went

941
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,440
there, but we.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

942
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,960
Well, as you do, as you do,
right, yeah.

943
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,480
And.
You know, and we, so we pulled

944
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,520
production out of Denver first
and like an example of what I

945
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,880
was just talking about on the
first festival we did after

946
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,840
pulling production out of
Denver, I saved $80,000 on sub

947
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,160
hires on the first show.
Oh my goodness.

948
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,000
So.
Much of the gear came back to

949
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,400
where it belonged.
Wow and.

950
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:02,680
So we pulled production 1st and
radically minimized our sub

951
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,720
hires in both the other offices.
And then we left integration

952
00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:08,760
there for a few years and went
to a smaller building and did

953
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,960
some other things.
Yeah.

954
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,120
But it that became a little bit
of a challenge after a while as

955
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,760
well.
So we finally just said, you

956
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,520
know, yeah, go in the towel.
Let's let's get back to what we

957
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,000
do well.
Yeah, and.

958
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:20,880
So.
Anyway, that was, you know,

959
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,360
integration.
Integration is an interesting

960
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,720
place right now.
And you know, maybe you can tell

961
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,280
me why, or maybe you're not
experiencing the same thing, but

962
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,280
it seems like even large, large
companies are shutting down

963
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,200
integration divisions in their
businesses and we're.

964
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:39,600
Doing well.
There.

965
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,320
Yeah, yeah.
I can't complain.

966
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,280
About well, that was one of the
things I was going to say though

967
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:48,320
is it seems like not the largest
businesses are doing well and

968
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,160
some of the largest businesses
aren't and I don't know why.

969
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,120
Well, you know, we don't do.
We do primarily production

970
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,280
really entertainment places,
yeah.

971
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:05,160
And we were doing some themed
stuff a couple years ago and we

972
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,120
still do a little bit of that,
but we've tried to narrow our

973
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,360
focus on to what's the highest
margin.

974
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,120
You know, we've decided we like
to work half as much and make

975
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,440
twice as much instead of working
twice as hard to make half as

976
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,880
much.
And so we, I mean, we don't do

977
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,560
corporate boardrooms, we don't
do sign digital signage, You

978
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,320
know, we don't do a lot of those
things that are diversions from

979
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,080
what we know best.
And, and live entertainment

980
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,480
production is what we cut our
teeth on over the years.

981
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,800
So we do primarily production
spaces now, which has served us

982
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,240
well.
And you know we have, we have

983
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:42,160
relationships with a couple of
Co-op situations that bring work

984
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:43,760
to us as well.
Yeah, that's cool.

985
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,400
So.
That segment of our business is

986
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,080
probably in the range of 40 to
50%.

987
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,480
Wow equal equal equal with
production now so.

988
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,920
I stand corrected.
Yeah.

989
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,280
It, it just seems like a, you
know, like so many people I

990
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,480
talked to are like, we're not
making any money there.

991
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,720
We're, you know, like I know
one, one small group of

992
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:11,280
companies just recently sold off
their, their, that division of

993
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,880
their company and, and others
have closed it and some of the

994
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,520
bigger ones have closed it, like
Solo tech actually closed their

995
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,520
e-commerce business And, and I,
I was.

996
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,840
Just going to go there.
I was just going to go there and

997
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,400
say that that that is probably
more of what we experience in

998
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,080
the e-commerce because there's,
so you know, there's so many

999
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,240
people selling stuff online.
Now, yeah.

1000
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,760
It's, it's hard to compete in
that segment and get any real

1001
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,280
margin.
So we do, we are noticing a

1002
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,760
decline in our pro shop
business, Yeah, or the brown box

1003
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,000
sale part, but the, the
integration division where we're

1004
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,840
actually going out and
installing the rig or the, you

1005
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,720
know, the intelligent waste
systems.

1006
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:51,920
And all that stuff now, yeah,
we're.

1007
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:53,360
We're doing well there.
I can't.

1008
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:54,680
Yeah.
Good, good.

1009
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,680
Yeah, Well, and I, I would guess
that most of that is regional,

1010
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,680
right?
Like or is it national still?

1011
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,280
Yeah, it's national.
I mean I have.

1012
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,120
AI probably.
I think I have a crew out in

1013
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,520
Wyoming right now.
We have a crew, some now in

1014
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,320
Phoenix.
It's a bit more regional, but

1015
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,760
that's a much bigger market than
Wisconsin is.

1016
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,400
You know, I mean, Miss Phoenix
is what, 6 or 7 million people

1017
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,920
with new venues and stuff going
up all the time.

1018
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,720
Milwaukee and Chicago is a
little more.

1019
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,560
You know we're.
Not concentric or whatever the

1020
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,520
word is, you know, it's, it's,
it's confined.

1021
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:35,680
So but but we're still, we're
still doing a lot of production

1022
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,560
related stuff.
Yeah.

1023
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,840
So you know, what are you, what
are you thinking?

1024
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,680
Like, how do things sort of fix
themselves?

1025
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,760
You know, like, I mean, we're
still struggling for people.

1026
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,800
We're, we're obviously starting
to see some, I'm seeing more and

1027
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,760
more businesses struggling just
to make money right now.

1028
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Like, you know, one of the
interesting trends that I'm

1029
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,400
seeing is you've got some
companies that are growing

1030
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:11,640
rather quickly, young guys that
are fairly well funded and but

1031
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,360
they're growing on this model,
which is basically we'll work

1032
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:18,680
24/7 and never take a break and
we'll sleep at the shop and that

1033
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,840
kind of thing, which as you
know, it will.

1034
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:22,840
Race to the bottom on the
numbers.

1035
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,000
It is not sustainable.
No, I don't see it as

1036
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,960
sustainable.
I, I mean, I say that I'm glad

1037
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,760
to be old in a number of
contexts.

1038
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,480
You know, 1 is I've seen a lot
of stuff and I've experienced a

1039
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,240
lot of things that we've had to
change to grow and, and you

1040
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,600
know, what's the phrase change
or die, I guess.

1041
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,680
As a business, evolve or die,
I'm.

1042
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,440
I'm glad I wouldn't want to be
starting out in the in the

1043
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:50,680
industry of any nature right now
with the economic climate, just

1044
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:56,000
the lack of people and labor.
I'm not a fan of of, of, of

1045
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:01,280
social, the whole kids living in
their phones thing, you know, so

1046
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:02,840
I'm a little old school that
way.

1047
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,680
But the reason, the other reason
I say I'm glad to be old is

1048
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,000
because we've got a head start
on a lot of those guys.

1049
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,640
And our business is big enough
and well known enough and we

1050
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:15,280
have a reputable enough
reputation to to to get to get

1051
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,160
some things just based on who we
are and how we have.

1052
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:19,840
Done this.
That's very helpful.

1053
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,080
To get to start clawing and
scratching at the market now

1054
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,720
would be really challenging.
Yeah.

1055
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:27,040
I don't know if I'd have the
patience.

1056
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,400
Yeah, well, I, I mean, I know
some people doing really,

1057
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,560
really, you know, big shows,
lots and lots of work and stuff.

1058
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,280
But, you know, you could call
them at 11:00 on a Thursday

1059
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:43,320
night and they're at the shop,
you know, And like, one thing I

1060
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:48,880
know is I know a lot of people
who are either dead or dying who

1061
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,120
had that kind of lifestyle.
You know, you, you do have to

1062
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,800
have other things in your life,
otherwise this will burn you out

1063
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,040
pretty well.
And so and.

1064
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,760
I, you know, again, I feel
fortunate along those lines.

1065
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,200
We're we're, it's not like my
people haven't put in 100 hour

1066
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:08,120
weeks a bunch of times in the
last year, but it kind of ebbs

1067
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,040
and flows.
Yeah, you know, and that's

1068
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,560
that's another good thing about
having Milwaukee and Phoenix,

1069
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,160
which are inverse busy seasons.
You know it when it, it slows

1070
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,000
down up here, we've got revenue
streams and whatnot coming from

1071
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,440
Phoenix.
So the that's been a nice

1072
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,080
synergy in in our evolution too.
Is, is going to another climate

1073
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,320
where things subset, you know,
our things subsidized each other

1074
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,000
and, and being multi discipline
helps too.

1075
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,200
You know, when sound is down,
lighting is up, when you know,

1076
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,520
backline, backline or, or
integrations is down, production

1077
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,080
is up.
When production is down,

1078
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,200
integrations is up.
So and and frankly along that

1079
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,560
line, you know, integrations
saved us and COVID.

1080
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,720
Yeah, a lot of businesses.
Yeah.

1081
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,520
I mean the schools that were
shut down for three or four

1082
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,480
months all said we want to get
this work done and we can do it

1083
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,280
with social distancing while
none of the students are here or

1084
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,960
anything.
So having having that multi

1085
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,640
discipline really saved us too.
I just got a little shiver when

1086
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,680
you said social distancing.
I don't ever want to hear that

1087
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:07,320
again.
I know.

1088
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,760
Like, I didn't realize I liked
people until you made me stay

1089
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,280
away from him.
And then I was like, well wait a

1090
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,240
second, this sucks.
I don't like this.

1091
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:17,400
We were just shooting the
breeze.

1092
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,480
There was a guy from another
company here a couple minutes

1093
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,400
ago and we were shooting the
breeze out in the front office

1094
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,840
and I remember going to a show.
I don't remember where it was.

1095
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,560
I don't remember the show or
anything, but I walked out onto

1096
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:32,080
the space where the audience
would be and there were 6 foot

1097
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,440
diameter circles.
Jesus Christ.

1098
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,760
All the floor so that people can
stand to the center of.

1099
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,840
Their six my diameter.
Circle.

1100
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,000
And try to.
Watch some kind of show now.

1101
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,400
It couldn't have been something
big because obviously you were

1102
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,600
limiting your attendance, but I
remember seeing that and just

1103
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,800
thinking, where the hell are we
doing?

1104
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,360
That yeah, so many things like
the grocery stores where you had

1105
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,400
one way lanes down each of the
aisles, you know, this ones only

1106
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,360
to go this way.
Oh, no, you got to go to the

1107
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,040
next lane to go this way.
It's like, what if I chose the

1108
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,760
wrong lane, you know?
Ever want to live like that?

1109
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:09,160
Oh my God.
Or even those circles like in

1110
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,080
the bank and stuff, you know
when you're like they're showing

1111
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,960
you how closely you can stand to
people and it's like God and

1112
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,120
there's a line like 3 blocks out
the door and it's only 12 people

1113
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,800
you know it's.
Like or the the vinyl

1114
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,200
footprints.
On Oh Jesus, those and.

1115
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,120
There was always the joke that
there were those every six feet

1116
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,920
lined up behind Anita Baker's
monitor guy, because when that

1117
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,480
guy got fired, the next guy
would.

1118
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,880
Oh my God, that's hilarious.
That's hilarious.

1119
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,480
Anyway, yeah, so.
Funny stuff we've seen in our

1120
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:40,640
years, huh?
Yeah.

1121
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,440
What what do you think is the
hardest from a gear standpoint?

1122
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,600
What's the hardest department to
keep up with?

1123
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,680
Like who?
Who demands the newest, latest

1124
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,440
gear and at the highest cost?
Is it audio?

1125
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,320
Well, yeah.
And lighting, you know they're,

1126
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,160
they're kind of run parallel for
us and you know, because we have

1127
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,720
both disciplines, we were as
from a CapEx standpoint, we were

1128
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,400
jogging every other year.
One year was audio, the next

1129
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,160
year was lighting.
OK, Yeah.

1130
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,360
But then COVID threw a wrench in
all of that timing too, because

1131
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,960
by the time we came out of
COVID, we were like 3-4 years

1132
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,680
behind latest technology.
And.

1133
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,120
Lighting especially and I was
kind of hoping that there would

1134
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,240
be a sensitivity by the guys
spec and the gear that hey, we

1135
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,720
know all these vendors took it
in the shorts here for a couple

1136
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,600
years.
We're going to use gear that's a

1137
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,960
little bit aged for a while that
didn't.

1138
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:31,160
Happen.
Really.

1139
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,520
No, I want the latest, greatest
thing that's new off the market.

1140
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:36,360
Oh my God.
So.

1141
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,120
But it is what it is.
Yeah, well, yeah, cuz I know

1142
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,640
when we were coming out of COVID
and we'd be on those like my

1143
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,600
zoom calls every week or
whatever, people would talk

1144
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,640
about, you know, coming out of
this, we're going to be much

1145
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,400
more sensible and some things
we're going to totally change

1146
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,120
and we'll never go back again.
And you know, we're going to be

1147
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,400
more disciplined and all this
stuff, right?

1148
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,400
And no, people will have to use
whatever's in my shop.

1149
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,120
And then the first show you see
them do, you're like, no, wait,

1150
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:05,760
you didn't used to have those
Roby, you know, Forte's or

1151
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,200
whatever.
And well, you know, a customer

1152
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:12,960
needed it, you know, so people
in our industry are too willing

1153
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,160
to go massively into debt too.
That's the other thing, like

1154
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,960
debt is they're addicted to
debt, you know?

1155
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,720
Well, and I'm not gonna RIP on
anybody.

1156
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,720
I completely respect all the
guys who are the geniuses of.

1157
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,320
Course.
Have the design and the creative

1158
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,920
element of this who then spec
the gear.

1159
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,520
But I've said for many, many
years it it must be nice to be

1160
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,480
the guy that just has to write
what I want on a piece of paper

1161
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:38,560
and someone else has to buy it
and provide.

1162
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,720
It you know.
But at the end of the day, it

1163
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,600
you know, we've survived through
all of these.

1164
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,360
Iterations, right?
Exactly, we're doing.

1165
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,600
Well, so I don't have an axe to
grind with anybody, but I still

1166
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,640
think it would be nice to just
say this is what I want, please

1167
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:54,960
provide it for me.
And yeah, somebody else has to.

1168
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,040
Buy it.
Well, or how about a collab, you

1169
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,680
know, where, where somebody
comes into you and says, hey,

1170
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:04,480
Greg, what would be the best
gear for us to spec on this show

1171
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,080
that we're doing with you next
week based on what you have in

1172
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,640
stock, you know?
Well, I'm pretty sure that some

1173
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,960
of the the real heavyweights in
our industry have that ability.

1174
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,760
Yeah, you know, but a company at
my scale just doesn't have that

1175
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,840
kind of leverage.
Yeah, so you give them what they

1176
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:24,320
want.
Imagine some of the major

1177
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,880
players, you know, they fly a
guy in and do they win him and

1178
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,280
dine him or do whatever they do
and and they work those

1179
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,160
compromises out.
Not really.

1180
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,400
Not really.
Yeah, I, I don't know, it's.

1181
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,200
Speculation, yeah.
Speculation.

1182
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,280
No, it doesn't seem like it.
It, it seems like, you know,

1183
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,280
whatever they want, they get.
And, and, you know, I think when

1184
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:47,760
a huge player does a smaller
show, perhaps, you know, like if

1185
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,960
they're doing, you know, if, if
you know, a solo tech or a PRG

1186
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,480
or somebody's doing a, a theatre
tour and the LD says, I gotta

1187
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,840
have these.
And they say, well, would you

1188
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:00,560
take these?
Because we're going to be able

1189
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,280
to hit your budget, if you will.
And we've been doing.

1190
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,480
It for 20 years within your
budget and you know we've always

1191
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,480
taken care of you here.
So can we get a little back

1192
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:09,720
scratch here?
Yeah, yeah.

1193
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:11,000
I don't.
Yeah.

1194
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:12,160
You know the game.
Yeah.

1195
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,560
I mean, we've, we've had to pass
on many a project over the years

1196
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:17,480
just because we didn't have the
capacity.

1197
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,000
Yeah.
I mean, from a people or a gear

1198
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,960
standpoint, that's really hard
when you want to continue to

1199
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,480
grow your business.
And especially if it's an act.

1200
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,000
I mean, I've had several acts
come our way that I was just

1201
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,360
love to work with.
I'd love to do that to her if

1202
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,240
the timing was wrong or
whatever.

1203
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:38,280
And, and I, I had a friend who
was a, an agent for us a few

1204
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,800
years ago.
And he said one of his biggest

1205
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,120
frustrations in the business, he
worked for a bigger player

1206
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,320
before he was an agent for us.
And he said I worked for three

1207
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,200
or four years to get this act to
give me a crack at him.

1208
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,240
And as soon as I got the crack
at him, we couldn't do it.

1209
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:58,640
And that's so frustrating.
Yeah, yeah, no kidding.

1210
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,080
Well, I mean, but the flip side
of that is, you know, and I've

1211
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,600
seen this one happen where
literally it bankrupted a

1212
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,320
company when they reached
further than they they could,

1213
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,240
then they should have, you know,
so I just really want to do it.

1214
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,920
It's The Beatles reunion.
I got to have this, I got to

1215
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,760
have it.
And so they they take an

1216
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,880
incredible amount of debt and
buy this crazy package for

1217
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,280
really low returns.
And, you know, they lose their

1218
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,800
ass and two years later they're
gone, you know well.

1219
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,600
You know, there was a there was
a company I won't name a few

1220
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:34,160
years ago that was blew up,
flash in the pan kind of same

1221
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,640
thing, one hit wonder type of
deal and massive.

1222
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,840
And I was thinking, boy, what
are we all going to do to

1223
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:41,760
compete with these guys?
And then they were only around

1224
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,400
for a couple.
Years, Yeah, Yeah, You know, I

1225
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:45,880
happen to know who you're
thinking about.

1226
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,400
Yeah.
But no, I mean, you know, I, I

1227
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,760
think at the end of the day,
like there are some successful

1228
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:57,640
businesses that you look at and
you go and chances are they're

1229
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:59,800
either going to be sold to
private equity within a couple

1230
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,600
years or something's going to
give.

1231
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,000
Because you can't just keep
fueling that thing, you know,

1232
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:09,680
with debt and debt and debt and
more debt, you know, unless you

1233
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,080
just have really rich parents.
No one can own enough gear to do

1234
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,560
everything you know with
everyone.

1235
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,319
PRG is sub hiring from solo tech
or solo tech?

1236
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:21,560
From Claire or whatever, yeah.
Pick all the big players there,

1237
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,040
but no one can own enough of
everything to.

1238
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:25,840
No, Pull it all off.
No.

1239
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,960
Yeah.
So you're saying basically

1240
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:35,640
lighting and audio are both
impossibly expensive and hard to

1241
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:36,240
keep up with?
I.

1242
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,880
Won't say impossibly, but
they're both challenging to keep

1243
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,040
state-of-the-art and both at the
same time.

1244
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,279
Yeah, yeah.
But audio, it's like.

1245
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:48,120
It's an interesting thing
because like it just seems like

1246
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:52,200
L acoustics and DNB like you
know, first it's this rig and

1247
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:53,880
then you got to have this one
and then you got to have this

1248
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,680
one and then you and it's.
Just like 2,000,002 million,

1249
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,840
3,000,002 million, 2,000,000.
For sure it's huge money and

1250
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:01,600
and.
It would be nice if it stopped

1251
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:03,600
at speaker systems you.
Know you've got.

1252
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,200
Consoles and processing and you
know.

1253
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:08,439
I can't believe what amps cost
these days.

1254
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:13,160
You know these power soft amps
are just like holy shit, you

1255
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,680
want how much for an amp?
Yeah, dude, we had a incident

1256
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,600
last summer.
We were had a transfer truck

1257
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:23,240
coming up from Phoenix, 3 trucks
right at the end of the busy

1258
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:24,920
season in Phoenix.
The trucks were headed to

1259
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,640
Milwaukee for Summerfest.
The RNC was here last summer, we

1260
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,920
do the Harley anniversary and we
did another big corporate thing

1261
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,080
and they were all stacked up.
So we had three trucks

1262
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:37,240
transferring from Phoenix to
Milwaukee and one of the three

1263
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:41,479
trucks in Liberty, KS
experienced a problem and the

1264
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,640
the truck went up in flames.
Fire.

1265
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,880
And.
The the IT was the tractor that

1266
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,160
started fire.
The axle froze up or something

1267
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,560
but once the tires went up
rubber burns hot.

1268
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,880
The whole front third of the
trailer burned up and when I got

1269
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,880
the pictures it was like a stack
of L Acoustics K1 that you know

1270
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,480
the firemen had used axes on.
Oh no.

1271
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,760
So I mean in the just the front
third of that trailer was

1272
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:15,080
$2,000,000 worth of brand new
power amps and and K1.

1273
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,280
K2 Speakers.
Just so I mean, we pulled it

1274
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:19,920
off.
We scrambled to sub rent from

1275
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,560
other people to cover our needs,
but it was, yeah, I mean, the

1276
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,280
the expense and such a small
package of stuff now you can't

1277
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,680
even get your head around 1-2
rack spaces $10,000 yeah, you

1278
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,640
know, I mean.
Really crazy I remember.

1279
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,000
When I was first in business, I
thought, why does everything

1280
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:38,880
have to cost 100 bucks?
Yeah.

1281
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,280
Then a couple years later is why
does everything have to cost

1282
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:42,600
1000 bucks?
Yeah.

1283
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,480
Then a why does everything have
to be 100?

1284
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,520
Well, now it's, you know, every
new system is 1,000,000 plus.

1285
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:49,560
What about video?
Do you do video as well?

1286
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,440
We don't have video.
Yeah, you're, you're smart.

1287
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:56,000
Well, a few years ago and that
that same thing, the the

1288
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,680
obsolescence of something that
was 8 mil one year and it had to

1289
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,920
be 5 mil the next and three mil
the next and 1.8 the next.

1290
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:04,280
We just couldn't keep up with
it.

1291
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,040
Yeah, well, and meanwhile the
price went down dramatically

1292
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,120
like that.
The I don't know where they're

1293
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,800
at today, but at one point I
know it went from like $400.00 a

1294
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,600
tile down to $40 a tile or
whatever.

1295
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,640
You know, I happen to be at at
Costco yesterday for something

1296
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,680
and I I was looking at ATV for
399.

1297
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,360
Dollars remember.
The the first one I bought that

1298
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:30,400
was half that size was 4000.
Dollars I I say it every time I

1299
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,720
go into Costco, I stop with my
girlfriend and I just look at

1300
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:39,040
the latest like whatever it is,
100 inch LEDTV that's like, you

1301
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,760
know, 1995 or whatever and I'm
going, how is that even

1302
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,480
possible?
Like that was 50 grand, you

1303
01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:47,240
know, five years ago or
whatever.

1304
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:49,880
That's great.
TV's blow my mind in Costco

1305
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,200
every single time, you know, and
I don't need one.

1306
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,640
I got an 85 inch TV here that I
don't really watch so.

1307
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,600
Yeah, we went from what, 1K
resolution to 5K or something?

1308
01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:04,800
8K yeah. 8K yeah, no, it's it
really is that that technology

1309
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,720
and it talk about a race to the
bottom.

1310
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:12,120
Like how can you be making money
on a 75 inch TV at 399 or

1311
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,480
whatever?
Like the shipping for me to ship

1312
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:18,080
it would cost that much, you
know, So granted you get good

1313
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,880
shipping deals, but still it had
to cost something to ship it

1314
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,360
from China to here here to the
store, you know, put it on the

1315
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,680
shelf.
Like I don't get it.

1316
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,080
I don't get it.
I remember, I remember when LL

1317
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:34,200
Acoustics, when we were going
into COVID, and I don't remember

1318
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:36,440
actually, I shouldn't mention
all acoustics because I might

1319
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:39,600
have the wrong vendor in mind,
but I remember whatever we had

1320
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,680
to ship from Europe, a
container, the price of a

1321
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,440
container had gone from 10 to
$20,000, Yeah, or something like

1322
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:47,640
that.
Yeah, more than that even.

1323
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,280
Yeah, almost $30,000 like I
think.

1324
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:55,800
Yeah, maybe one.
We sold a sound system from like

1325
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,480
right at the toughest time, 2021
or whatever it was when

1326
01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:03,680
containers were crazy expensive.
We sold a big sound system from

1327
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:08,080
Singapore to I think it was
either the US or Canada, I can't

1328
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,040
remember.
And I think we paid $28,000 per

1329
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,440
container and it was 2
containers that we had to get.

1330
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:20,640
And I was shocked and oh, I
remember one thing and I won't

1331
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,560
say which touring company it
was, but they had an act going

1332
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,120
out.
This was, it had to be the end

1333
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,280
of either 21 or 22, I can't
remember, but it was the end of

1334
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:32,360
the year.
It was December, I think it was

1335
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:34,680
December 28th between Christmas
and New Year's.

1336
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:39,240
And I get a call in a panic.
You know, I need 100 of this

1337
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,840
particular lighting fixture.
I think it was a mega point or

1338
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,160
something.
I need 100 mega points.

1339
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,840
And I said, OK, great, you know,
we can get you those no problem.

1340
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:53,560
And he said, OK, you know how
much when you know, blah, blah,

1341
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,200
blah.
And so we said, OK, yeah, it's

1342
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:58,240
going to cost X amount of
dollars.

1343
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:02,040
And I, I can't even remember.
It was probably $600,000,

1344
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,600
whatever those lights were or
something.

1345
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,680
It was around 600 grand.
Shipping was more than the

1346
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,520
lights. 600 grand.
So then he says I said, OK, so

1347
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,560
when do you need it?
And this is December 28th and he

1348
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:18,720
said I need it January 8th in
such and such city in in America

1349
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,520
for rehearsals.
And I'm like, what the fuck are

1350
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,000
you doing ordering this stuff at
the end of December?

1351
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,520
You know, it's coming from
another country like, and I

1352
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,560
think again, that came from like
China or Hong Kong or somewhere

1353
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,440
over there might have been
Australia.

1354
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:40,520
I don't even remember but it was
far and so we had to ship by air

1355
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:45,240
and we had to like pre clear
customs and do every magical

1356
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:48,560
thing we could do to get this to
get to rehearsals on time.

1357
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,320
And shipping was more than the
cost of the lights.

1358
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:53,520
It was.
Over 600 grand for shipping and

1359
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,840
I I can't I.
Couldn't even believe it at the

1360
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,720
time.
I was like, here's how much it

1361
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:00,280
is and they're like, I don't
care.

1362
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,320
Client will pay I thought.
You were going to say they

1363
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:05,720
blocked?
Oh, no, no, no, they bought it.

1364
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:07,720
They had no choice.
They had no choice.

1365
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:13,160
They had to do it, you know, So
I, I was, it's the craziest deal

1366
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,200
I think that I've ever seen
where, you know, it was like a

1367
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,920
$600,000 sale and the total bill
was 1.3 million or something,

1368
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:22,720
you know, and I was like, this
is insane.

1369
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,120
Never seen anything like it.
Well, and it's the same like I

1370
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,040
had a TV go South the other day
at my house and they're not

1371
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:30,520
worth fixing anymore.
Yeah.

1372
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,720
And buy another one.
Yeah, yeah.

1373
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,160
Do you still get involved in the
gear?

1374
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:39,320
Are you still excited by the
tech in our industry?

1375
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:45,080
On some level, yes, but I, I
again, I can't keep up and, and

1376
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,680
I'm not around in that realm as
much as I used to be.

1377
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:49,360
I'm more on the business
management side.

1378
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,240
So I can't tell you how many
times I walk around the shop and

1379
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:53,440
go.
When did we get that?

1380
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,720
Yeah, you know what is that I?
Don't know what that is, you

1381
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:56,280
know.
How long?

1382
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,160
Oh, we've had that for a couple
years already.

1383
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,280
Never even seen it, don't know
what it is.

1384
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:01,920
What does it do?
Yeah.

1385
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,240
When's the last time?
When's the last time you've

1386
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,680
stood at a console and tried to
figure out how it works?

1387
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,640
It's.
Been a few years, yeah.

1388
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:13,160
Yeah, like I there's, I don't
even know how to turn them on

1389
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,080
anymore.
Like it's it's no, no idea.

1390
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:17,960
I'm an analog guy.
Me too, yeah.

1391
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:22,000
I mixed on a digital console
once for a friends band at

1392
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,080
Summerfest a few years ago and
it they it's funny because I

1393
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,320
walked up to the console and
there's a little box on the

1394
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,920
console and I opened it up and
it was a pair of white gloves.

1395
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:36,520
Funny walk in a white glove.
But I had to have my systems

1396
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:40,240
tech from that stage set the
console up for me so that I

1397
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,440
could basically just turn a
little EQ and run some faders.

1398
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,920
Other than that, when you go
into pages and pages of this

1399
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:49,440
kind of waves this or that or
just I'm lost.

1400
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:50,080
I'm just.
Lost.

1401
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:53,440
Yeah, yeah.
So no, not that I've ever been a

1402
01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:55,920
sound guy.
I was a musician and I sold lots

1403
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,960
of sound equipment, but but I
could walk up to like an old

1404
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:04,440
sound craft, you know, whatever
it was series 5 or something,

1405
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:09,480
series, whatever, but an analog
sound craft 24 channel board.

1406
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,080
And I could, I could make a
sound, a band sound pretty good.

1407
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,320
But today I, I literally
wouldn't know how to turn it on.

1408
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,800
And then all this Dante stuff,
like I don't even know how to

1409
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:20,600
work all these plugins and
everything.

1410
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,720
I have no idea.
So me neither.

1411
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,760
Yeah, it's it's wild, the.
Same ilk, my friend.

1412
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,120
Yeah, yeah.
While you're around it a little

1413
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,560
more than I am.
But but yeah, I just, I have no

1414
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:33,160
idea how to do any of that
stuff.

1415
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,880
I can dust them off with the
best of them, but that's about

1416
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,240
as far as it goes.
Yeah, take a paintbrush and get

1417
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,680
all the.
So I don't even think we

1418
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,160
mentioned, but it's it's your
40th anniversary this year,

1419
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:45,840
right, for Claire?
Wayne Oh, I think it's more

1420
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:47,600
yeah, I think.
It's, isn't it, 1985?

1421
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:50,840
Well, that's when I
incorporated, yes, but I started

1422
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:54,120
the business in late 1970. 4 so.
Yeah.

1423
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,280
So we called that too.
OK, so 50 years.

1424
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,680
Getting up there.
Jesus, no wonder you want to

1425
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,000
retire.
I'm glad to be above the side,

1426
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,320
my friend.
Yeah, well, we all are.

1427
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,240
We all are.
So many people aren't.

1428
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:12,000
You know it's, you knew Bob
Chakra, right?

1429
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:14,240
Yeah.
He just passed away a few days

1430
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:14,480
ago.
Oh.

1431
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:15,760
No, I didn't.
Know that.

1432
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:16,480
Yeah, he did.
Yeah.

1433
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:18,960
He passed away a few.
I mean, he was in a hospital for

1434
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:24,440
a number of years since I think
I had him on the podcast in

1435
01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:27,200
2019, right after he retired
from Roby.

1436
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:32,920
And not long after that, I think
maybe early 2020 is when he he

1437
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:37,960
went into a dementia home and
just dropped really quickly.

1438
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:40,160
I liked him.
Yeah, Bob's Bob was a good guy.

1439
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:41,960
I.
Bought my first verilites from

1440
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:43,480
him I think.
Really.

1441
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,680
Yeah yeah.
Used.

1442
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,640
Yeah.
Yeah, well, and you know, it's

1443
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,880
funny because there have been a
bunch of guys dropping lately,

1444
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:52,280
too.
We just lost the production

1445
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:56,480
manager for Odessa here a month
or so ago, and he was only like

1446
01:18:56,480 --> 01:18:57,640
50.
Yeah.

1447
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,280
And also there's a lot of weird
stuff.

1448
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,960
Going on, it's a tough life, you
know, not tough, but it's, you

1449
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:07,120
know, we're hard on ourselves.
Like lack of sleep, bad things,

1450
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:10,520
bad food, you know, way too many
long days.

1451
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:15,800
This guy was a a a recovery guy.
Yeah, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guy.

1452
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:16,760
Great.
Shape.

1453
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,680
Yeah, he had a he had a cardiac
event and we lost him.

1454
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:21,160
Really sad.
Geez, really sad.

1455
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,920
Yeah, I pay a lot of attention
to that cardiac thing.

1456
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:28,360
My, my dad died in my years,
eight years ago, you know, but

1457
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:33,400
he died when I was a little kid.
And, and so, yeah, I pay, I pay

1458
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,680
a lot of attention to the heart
thing.

1459
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:39,520
Got to.
But, you know, I mean, what can

1460
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,360
we actually do other than just
try and behave, you know, try

1461
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,360
and eat well and sleep and
exercise and all the boring

1462
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:46,400
stuff?
For sure.

1463
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:50,360
It's, it's not that hard.
So when, when do you think

1464
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:53,040
you're actually going to stop?
When are you going to retire for

1465
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:55,920
real?
Not not too long now.

1466
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,360
Yeah, not too long.
Your son's almost a little bit

1467
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:00,240
longer.
Your son's almost ready to take

1468
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:01,200
over.
Yeah, yeah.

1469
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:03,720
And I, I might like to go
through one more summer just

1470
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,520
because, you know, we make hay
here in the summer in Milwaukee

1471
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,800
and there's a lot of festivals I
really enjoy going to.

1472
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,800
That's the only really, that's
the only thing I really would

1473
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,120
like to retain a perk for is
just being able to go in some

1474
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,560
place and stand at the front of
house mix where I get a little

1475
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,960
elbow room and I'm not getting
mosh pitted by anybody.

1476
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:22,760
I think they'll probably still
let you.

1477
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,000
Yeah, probably will.
Probably.

1478
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,720
Will you still spend a lot of
time on the lake in the summer,

1479
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,120
right?
Yeah, I've got a lake house and

1480
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,120
now I have a house out in the
forest as well.

1481
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:33,840
I've got 20 acres of wooded
land.

1482
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:35,960
Very cool 30.
Minutes West of West of

1483
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,440
Milwaukee, so I have the best of
both worlds.

1484
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:40,640
And then I have a house in
Phoenix too, so when it gets

1485
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:42,720
bitter cold up here, I escape to
that.

1486
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:45,800
Yeah.
I I look, I'm I'm so blessed in

1487
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:47,040
so many ways.
I can't.

1488
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,760
I can't even bliss them.
Well, you so you've worked hard

1489
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,280
for 50 years, my friend, so I
think you.

1490
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,120
Deserve it.
But that's I was just saying

1491
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:58,480
somebody earlier today too.
The one of the greatest joys of

1492
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:01,320
being where I am is knowing that
I earned it, yeah.

1493
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,160
You know.
There's a lot of great people

1494
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:06,240
that are are, you know, second,
third generation or whatever

1495
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,080
that step into it.
I've got a couple here are my

1496
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,680
boys that that are are picking
up something that was had pretty

1497
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:14,240
good inertia going, you know,
when they got it.

1498
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:17,200
But I feel really good about
having earned it, no question.

1499
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,560
Yeah, that's fantastic.
And I really am.

1500
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:23,160
I'm happy for you that that you
do have that succession

1501
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:26,720
situation because I think, you
know, first of all, like there's

1502
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:29,240
a lot of people in our industry
that don't have it, myself

1503
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:33,160
included.
And there's a lot of people in

1504
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:35,000
our industry that don't even
think about it.

1505
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:39,320
You know, I know guys in their
60s and even 70s who don't have

1506
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:42,360
a succession plan at all, you
know, and they're just like,

1507
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:44,760
yeah, this is going to last
forever, you know?

1508
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,480
No, it ain't.
I mean, I called somebody

1509
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:51,960
unnamed company not too long ago
more in the corporate segment,

1510
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,640
not necessarily in live music.
And I said, you know, you guys

1511
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:57,680
have been around for around for
a long time.

1512
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:59,800
I think you got a good business.
You know, what's your exit

1513
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:01,480
strategy?
Is there any chance we could

1514
01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:06,080
talk about me acquiring you?
And the response was no, sorry,

1515
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:08,040
we're going to die at our desks.
Oh.

1516
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:11,360
Geez.
OK, Well, yeah, I guess if

1517
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,400
that's your aspiration.
Yeah, well, me.

1518
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:15,320
Neither.
Yeah, I'm not going to do that.

1519
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:17,560
I don't want to do that.
No, me neither.

1520
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:19,760
Well, we, you know, we didn't
know what we were going to talk

1521
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:21,560
about when we got started, but
we found plenty of.

1522
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:22,640
Stuff.
Yeah, no kidding.

1523
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:26,400
Well, I made you listen to my
theories on AI and you know

1524
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,720
that's that's going to kill
10-15 minutes no matter what.

1525
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:33,400
Yeah, it's all good though.
Yeah, well, I hope to get up

1526
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,680
there this summer, so I might
actually make some noise.

1527
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,880
Well, I kind of, I think I told
you no, maybe I didn't tell you

1528
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:44,240
last time, but I drive through
if I drive because I go up to my

1529
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:46,240
house in Canada for the summer,
so I have.

1530
01:22:46,440 --> 01:22:48,600
A lot less these days too.
Yeah, driving.

1531
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:53,280
I mean, it's a long drive from
Florida to Western Canada, But

1532
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,160
you know, I was going to buy a
car up there and then COVID

1533
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:59,360
happened and cars were so
expensive and it was stupid and

1534
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:02,240
insurance was crazy up there.
And then for the car to sit for

1535
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:03,840
half the year, it didn't make
any sense.

1536
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,160
So the cheap side of me said
well.

1537
01:23:06,440 --> 01:23:08,600
Yeah, I got this nice BMW in
South Florida.

1538
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:10,080
It's just going to sit for six
months.

1539
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:13,240
I'll just drive it up there.
And so for the first couple

1540
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:19,040
years, I, I transported it to
like Chicago or, or Minnesota or

1541
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:22,200
something and then drove from
there up and it wasn't that bad,

1542
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:26,360
1819 hours.
And last year we just drove the

1543
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:28,600
whole way and I was like, that
wasn't that terrible.

1544
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:30,920
That was OK.
And so now we're planning it.

1545
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,520
It's in a month and I think my
son's actually going to drive

1546
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:38,120
with his buddy and and I'll just
fly up with my girlfriend.

1547
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,400
If if you happen to change your
plan and pass by here, certainly

1548
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,720
come knock on the door.
And absolutely, yeah, a lot.

1549
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,800
Of great festivals here in the
summer there's a a festival of

1550
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:50,640
some generation like you know
Milwaukee's a ethnic melting pot

1551
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:54,040
right yeah, we we do Summerfest
but right before Summerfest we

1552
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,400
do Polish fest and then there's
Italian fest German fest Irish

1553
01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:59,680
fest Mexican Fiesta and so
there's.

1554
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:04,080
Sounds like Fat Belly Fest for
me because I like all of those

1555
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:07,960
food related things, you know?
Yeah, they're all fun.

1556
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:10,800
Really good looking red headed
blue eyed girls come to an Irish

1557
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:11,640
fest.
That's yeah.

1558
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,240
Well, I used to, but I have a
girlfriend so I'm not allowed to

1559
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:16,280
like those.
She's British, so she's close to

1560
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:19,640
that, but yeah, look, yeah, you
can still look.

1561
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:23,240
Well, keep us in mind if you
come this way.

1562
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:25,400
Absolutely, Greg.
Thank you for doing this.

1563
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:27,240
I appreciate it.
It's nice to catch up with you.

1564
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,240
No worries.
Yeah, great to see your face

1565
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:30,920
too.
Yeah, yeah.

1566
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:32,400
Be well, take care of yourself
all.

1567
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:34,040
Right bud, take care.