#301 - Bob McCarthy

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You have got to check this one
out.

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My head is going to explode I
think.

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I just went to audio college
here with Bob McCarthy.

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What a smart dude.
Oh my God.

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He has been working with or for
Meyer Sound for over 40 years

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now.
He's done many, many things with

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Metallica.
Lots and lots of things with

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lots of other bands.
Super smart guy when it comes to

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designing engineering audio
systems and really, really big

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loud audio systems too.
I, I saw Metallica last year

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with a system that he helped
design and, and put together for

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them.
So yeah, take a listen, hope you

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like it, have fun and don't
forget to like, subscribe and

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share.
Hello and thank you for joining

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me today on Geez of Gear.
Today's podcast is brought to

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you by a brand new Geez of Gear
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Thanks for coming today.

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Love to have you here.
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often, please like and subscribe
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It shares their information, but
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share it as much as possible.
We appreciate you very much and

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I will keep trying to deliver
really great podcasts to you.

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Today we have a brand new
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Artistry in Motion.
They are a confetti and special

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about them, they've just done
the Super Bowl, which was pretty

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incredible.
You always see just a ton of

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confetti coming in and it's
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need to load it up and be
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Philadelphia or Kansas City, who
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And of course, Philadelphia won.
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green and white Philadelphia
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trophies.
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City, it would have been red and
white Super Bowl trophies.

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So they do really great work.
They did not only the Super

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Bowl, but they also did the
national championship game for

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football, for college football,
which is a pretty big deal.

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So they do a lot of really cool
stuff.

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It's so fun to have, you know,
unusual or different or sort of

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out of the normal lighting sound
manufacturers or video

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00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,320
manufacturers.
And so we're really happy to

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have them on board.
Thank you guys very much for

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00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,320
being a sponsor of Geezer Gear
and I look forward to

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representing you.
So two days guest is actually

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someone I don't know.
And so I'm really looking

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forward to along with you, I'm
going to learn about this guy

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too.
Bob McCarthy is a leading expert

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in sound system design and
optimization.

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He's got over 40 years in the
industry.

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He pioneered Source Independent
Measurement Measurement for SIM

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in 1984 and has worked on major
productions including Metallica,

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Cirque du Soleil, and Broadway
hits like Wicked and Les

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Miserables.
His book Sound Systems Design

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and Optimization is a go to
resource for audio professional

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professionals worldwide.
A sought after educator and

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consultant, Bob continues to
shape the future of live sound

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through his work, seminars, and
ongoing projects with top

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artists and venues.
So please join me and let's

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welcome and say hello to Mr. Bob
McCarthy.

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Hello Bob.
Hello, how are you I'm.

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Good, Marcel.
Bob has colorful glasses and a

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very colorful shirt.
And I'm jealous.

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I'm a little bit jealous.
I'm a little dark and black and

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you know, I'm, I'm the Metallica
version right now, I guess.

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Yeah, all in black and no color
at all.

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And you've, you've got a lot of
stuff going on, so I appreciate

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that.
So I've been, I've been looking

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forward to this.
I am admittedly a lighting guy

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for the most part, and so I
apologize in advance if I talk

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like an idiot when it comes to
some of my stupid questions or

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whatever.
You know, I used to I grew up

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playing in bands and and you
know, I could go up to a sound

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craft, you know, whatever it was
called SR24, the 24 channel, you

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know, really flat, boxy looking
sound craft console and make a

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band sound pretty good.
But it was a whole different

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thing back then.
You know, it's, it's, you've

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come through all of these
different steps, which is so

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cool.
That's one of the things I

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really want to talk about is
really that, that evolution of,

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of not just live sound, but all
sound, you know, from all

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versions of analog to all kinds
of different digital stuff.

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And, and you've been there for
all of it, which is cool.

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So where, where did you start?
How did you start?

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What?
What got you into sound?

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Well, it really starts with The
Beatles on Ed Sullivan.

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I mean, either literally.
No, no, on Ed Sullivan you could

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at the at.
When they came, when they came.

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When they came to town, they
came to my city, which was Saint

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Louis, and my brother went and,
and my wife also went by future

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wife.
And they, they can tell you that

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they they saw The Beatles.
They're very careful in the

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choice of words.
So what?

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What was that system back then?
Well, it was a.

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It was basically just what they
would pick up locally and then

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they would pipe into the
existing house like.

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The horns.
The house horns, Yes.

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And at at at at Golden Gate
Park.

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Not not Golden Gate Park.
At Candlestick Park.

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It was McEwen Sound that
provided it.

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And.
Some all tech horns and it, you

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know, stuff stacked up on the
ground and it was it was just a

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just a mess, just a mess.
It's going to make you cringe

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thinking of what they had to try
to do in a stadium show.

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Like these aren't little
theaters or something.

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These are stadiums.
It's hard enough today with the

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with the, you know, the stuff we
have today, let alone going back

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there.
I've actually done a

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presentation on audio failure
and that is the star of the

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show.
And I'm not blaming the sound

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company.
What you, what the what the deal

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is, is that the promoters and
they were ready to book

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stadiums, but nothing else was
ready.

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Yeah.
The lighting wasn't ready, the

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sound wasn't ready.
The staging wasn't ready.

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Like Ringo Starr will tell you,
he just would look and read lips

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because he couldn't tell us.
Wow.

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We couldn't hear a single thing
that anybody was singing or

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playing and.
So even stage monitors didn't

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exist?
Wow.

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It's incredible that like the
need, the the demand happened

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before the supply in that.
Situation.

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It is really interesting.
Wow, it just exploded just

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overnight.
All of a sudden stadiums boom

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and nobody was ready for it.
Yeah, so you saw The Beatles on

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Ed Sullivan and and that
inspired you to get involved

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somehow?
That inspired me to music to

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like really dig in because I was
I'm a I'm a member of a

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construction company family,
McCarthy Construction, which is

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like the 7th largest
construction company in the USA.

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It's a big company.
Wow, good for you.

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And I was all everybody had it
all figured out.

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I was going to go into the
company and then I started my

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life of crime on that particular
day.

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Went went and got a guitar the
the next the next day.

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Forgot to mention to anybody
that I was left-handed.

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Yes.
So did you just flip it over

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like Hendrix style?
No, I didn't.

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It didn't even occur to me.
I just took my lessons like a

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right-handed person, and I still
play guitar and I still play it

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right-handed.
You know what's so friggin

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bizarre?
Like when we were talking

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beforehand, you told me, you
know, you spell your name six O

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6 because it's Bob and it's
backwards like us left-handed

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people basically.
And, and I'm left-handed.

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Well, same thing.
I learned to play guitar

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right-handed.
I play, I play hockey

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right-handed.
I pretty much do, I play tennis

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right-handed, but I have a
left-handed forehand in tennis

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as well.
And I've I've just automatically

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learned everything right-handed
for some reason, but I right and

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eat left-handed.
Oh, funny, for for me it's

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pretty much everything
left-handed except for a

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trackball, which is the bane of
my existence.

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I can't do it either handed, but
I have to default to

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right-handed on that.
Yeah, yeah.

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Oh, but you said you play guitar
right-handed.

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Or did you switch and that?
Well I use both hands but yes IA

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100% I'm a.
I'm a normal you.

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You would never know I'm
left-handed by watching me play

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guitar.
Really.

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But all other things, like if
you were to pick up a a tennis

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racket, you'd hold it
left-handed a. 100% I'm left

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weird, left eyed, left footing,
left-handed.

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Interesting.
See, I'm pretty ambidextrous on

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most things, like my feet.
My, you know, I can't even like

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I figure I keep trying to think
if I was a boxer, would I, you

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know, would I be that way or
that way?

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And, and I just, you know, they
both feel pretty natural to me.

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So I don't know, it's it's
weird.

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I don't know why.
Have you ever researched why

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some people just kind of do
different things with different?

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Yes, there's a really good book.
It's called The Causes and

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Consequences of left hand of of
left Sidedness.

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And it goes through left ear,
left eye, left foot and left

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hand.
And it's hard.

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Fascinating.
Of and consequences.

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Of left sidedness or or maybe
it's just of sightedness?

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Cool, I'm gonna get that because
I I've always wondered, but I've

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never wondered to a point of
actually pursuing it, but I'm

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00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,120
going to get it.
I love reading books.

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So it'll be it'll be on my list.
So that's very cool.

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00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:15,080
So that is bizarre.
So your father probably kind of

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went, huh.
We're not going to stay in our

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family business and, you know,
take that path that leads to,

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you know, pretty much guaranteed
success and you're going to go

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down this other Rd. with a bunch
of crazy gypsies and go do

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sound.
Was it immediately sound?

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00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,200
No, it was not sound.
Of course I wanted to be on the

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stage that was.
Pursuing music at this point.

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You wanted to be wanted to be a
star.

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But I went then to Indiana
University, which had the

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largest music school in America.
And once again I can go to a

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single moment.
And on my first night arriving,

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I went down to the common room
and watched as one person after

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00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,360
another played musical
instruments of various sorts.

229
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,200
And I went, OK, you're not going
to be a musician.

230
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:08,760
Why?
They were just too good.

231
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,360
Oh, it was just like holy God.
You and I followed each other's

232
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,640
paths really well because except
for the fact that I never took

233
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,800
it seriously enough to go to
school or anything.

234
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,280
I, I got into it because of
girls and fun and, and, you

235
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,000
know, like I was 12 years old
and I started as a professional

236
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,880
singer and went out with a rock
band and made no money until I

237
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,120
was about 18 and finally said,
OK, you know, at like 18 or 19,

238
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,320
my bar tabs were more than my
wages.

239
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,040
And I just went, this isn't
going to work for me.

240
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,200
You know, I got to figure
something else out.

241
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,080
And I went sort of behind the
stage as well.

242
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,400
So it's funny, we followed some
pretty similar paths in life.

243
00:14:52,960 --> 00:15:00,040
So the, the interesting twist on
it now is this is 19 7675 is

244
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,160
when this is happening 75 and,
and there is no audio program,

245
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,840
but I but I knew now I wanted to
be in, in music, but I was

246
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,600
really actually a pretty
technical and very, I had a lot

247
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,360
of scientific methodology baked
into my brain because we had an

248
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,200
engineering and a medical
family.

249
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,560
My father was a doctor and his
two brothers ran the

250
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,280
construction company.
So it's a, it's a, it's a very

251
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,160
grounded environment.
And except you.

252
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,120
Well, but it turns out it's me
too, because, because I, you

253
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,680
know, when I got into sound, I
got into the scientific side of

254
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,400
it and that's where I've really
lived pretty much all my career.

255
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,800
But so they, what I did was I
went and talked to the music

256
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,560
school people and they needed
people to do sound for the jazz

257
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,040
band and for recordings for the
Symphony and all that.

258
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,840
And so I started to volunteer
there.

259
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,400
And then they told me that they
were thinking of a new thing

260
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,640
where they could do a program
that you self design and you can

261
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,320
make your own custom program in
whatever you want.

262
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,040
I see so.
So you, so I went to this

263
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,080
independent learning program and
then and said I want to make a

264
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,880
degree in audio engineering.
And we cobbled together pieces

265
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,800
out of all the different
departments and made a degree.

266
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,280
And that's that's where it
starts.

267
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,560
And that was at what school?
At Indiana University OK in

268
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,080
Bloomington IN Wow and of course
they now have a a full program

269
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,480
now and.
But you were there when it

270
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,400
started.
I was there when it started

271
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:47,600
exactly.
That's very cool.

272
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,960
Yeah.
So how long was the program?

273
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,600
Well, for me to.
Get this degree.

274
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,240
For me, it was a full 4 year
Bachelor of Science.

275
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,480
For now, I believe it's a they
have a two year program and I

276
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,960
think they might have a
three-year program also, but.

277
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,400
Interesting.
And so you got out of that and

278
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,359
immediately got a job wrapping
cable in a shop for someone?

279
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,800
Well, no, they, they, I did a,
they arranged an internship for

280
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,400
me to go to a studio in Dallas,
TX.

281
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,200
And so I started at this studio
and I knew in my career that I

282
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,480
wanted to do recording and I
wanted to do live work because I

283
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,640
wanted to do all the work.
Of course, at that time people

284
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,000
did a lot of cross pollination.
Now it's a very specialized

285
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,560
world.
You don't you don't get a lot of

286
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,680
people moving between
disciplines.

287
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,120
But at that time that's what it
was.

288
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,520
And I'm sitting in this studio
and realizing I've got to wait

289
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,840
for someone to die before I
going to move to the next

290
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,960
position in the studio.
It's going to be a long time and

291
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,720
I'm 23 years old.
The right thing to do now is to

292
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,280
do the the live sound part.
And there was a company

293
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,720
literally like 1/4 mile down the
road called Shoko.

294
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,960
Of course, yeah.
So I went to Shoko and showed

295
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,200
him my resume, which included a
degree in audio engineering, and

296
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:21,560
I'll never forget what BJ
Shiller's response to that was.

297
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,800
He says a degree in audio?
I never seen that.

298
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,280
Yeah, that's funny.
We and I have been one of the

299
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,440
first.
Literally.

300
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,240
Yeah.
Yes, we get our best guys out of

301
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,600
laundromats.
Yeah, well, he wasn't wrong.

302
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,760
OK, Yeah, exactly.
And so he says, you know, are

303
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,960
you going to be asking a lot of
questions and stirring things up

304
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,360
and said, you know, I'm work
with, I'm a team player.

305
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,680
I work with the group.
After a week in this shop

306
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,040
painting boxes, I got called out
to a show.

307
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,400
And the first thing they did is
like, hey, you're the guy with

308
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,840
the audio degree fix the home in
the system.

309
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,880
It's like.
Wow, and you're brand?

310
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,560
New.
That's wild.

311
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,680
It's like, OK, here we go.
Was this a big show or just a?

312
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,160
Oh, it was arena tour.
Arena tour with the Ojs.

313
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,240
Jesus, And they got this green
guy straight out of school and

314
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,280
they're counting on you to fix
the problem.

315
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,240
Exactly.
That's incredible.

316
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,360
And it's like, it's cool.
Let's.

317
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,480
Go.
Did you get it?

318
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,440
Yeah.
Yeah, so.

319
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,960
I'll never forget the the life.
Lesson.

320
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,880
No, the life lesson that day,
which I carry forward to me was

321
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,320
Randy Barner, who was the crew
chief for audio, brought me out

322
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,400
to the to the to the truck.
And I'll after you get

323
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,480
everything sound checked.
And now you're at that like

324
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,640
quiet time, dinner before the
show.

325
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,160
He's like, OK, I need to know
what kind of person you are

326
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,240
because there's two kind of
people in the world.

327
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,760
Are you Mr. Make it Happen?
I'm like, there's two kinds.

328
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,840
There's people that make it
happen, or they're people that

329
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,680
tell you all the reasons why
they can't make it happen.

330
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,120
I am so with that.
I said I am Mr. Make it Happen

331
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,640
and that construct has informed
my whole career.

332
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,240
I always gravitate towards
towards partnering up with

333
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,240
people that identify as the make
it happen people.

334
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,920
Yeah, that's, that's such an
amazing point and I love it so

335
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,680
much.
Like I, you know, I don't think

336
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,360
I've ever defined it quite as
well as you just did, you know,

337
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,760
Mr. Make it happen or, or all
the reasons you can't.

338
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,520
But I, I have employees, I have
friends, I have even family

339
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000
members who are like that.
And it drives me crazy because

340
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,440
it's like, you know, well, I
could never lose 50 lbs because,

341
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,560
you know, it's not just work,
It's anything in life, you know,

342
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,000
exactly all the reasons why I
can't do things.

343
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,080
And I'm always Uber focused on
there's, there's something out

344
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,840
there, there's a solution.
I just haven't found it yet, you

345
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,280
know?
And so I love that.

346
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,680
Yeah.
That's cool.

347
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,400
Yeah.
So how long did you stay at

348
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,200
Shoko then?
It wasn't that long, it was

349
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,720
about a year and a half, and
Shoko had a major contraction

350
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,400
because this band that they were
heavily invested, broke up the

351
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,520
band's name.
I can't remember something about

352
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,840
Genesis or something like that.
Yeah, plus they were distracted

353
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,800
by all these wiggly things.
Yeah, on the lighting.

354
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,880
Side yes, that was exactly
starting at that time.

355
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,480
And so they they had a big and I
was young, you know, I was new,

356
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,320
fairly new at the company.
So I, they trimmed everybody

357
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,440
down and I could have stayed
and, and, you know, weathered it

358
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,200
out.
But I came to California and

359
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,920
joined FM Productions.
Oh, OK, another good company.

360
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:07,680
And because I had, I had one,
I'd seen their work as a person

361
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,320
attending shows and I their
work, they were doing the

362
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,040
Grateful Dead sound at that
time.

363
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,840
And I could tell the quality of
their work was super high.

364
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,160
And I wanted to gravitate
towards that.

365
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,960
And that's what brings me out to
California and it brings me out

366
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,960
to meeting John Meyer.
And that was gigantic, my

367
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,760
career.
Yeah, yeah.

368
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,560
I mean, you still work with
Meyer stuff today, right?

369
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,520
Yeah, I'm an employee of Meyer
Sound, Yes.

370
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,440
Yeah, yeah.
So no, I mean, that's obviously

371
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,560
an incredible run with Meyer, 40
years or whatever, right?

372
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,040
That's wild.
That's wild.

373
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:53,640
That is so amazing.
So so at FM you met Meyer, but

374
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,360
were you now touring or were you
just basically shop and going

375
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,920
out and fixing problems when you
needed to or?

376
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,880
The I was, I was touring, but FM
productions didn't have a lot of

377
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:12,520
long good, good longs tours.
I did, I did heart around the

378
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,680
around the country in North
America and a couple of other

379
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,480
things, some Todd Rundgren's.
But what they did was they they

380
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,200
would pick up dates where
somebody was out with another

381
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,200
company, but they had like 3
California dates.

382
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200
So instead of bringing their
stuff over the Rockies, we would

383
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,720
pick up their San Francisco, LA,
San Diego and then say goodbye.

384
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,920
So in the early days, were you
were you attacked or were you

385
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,280
front a house right away or how?
Did it?

386
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,760
No, I was took a while stage
station and I was not.

387
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,240
AI was not a big shot by any
means.

388
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Yeah, yeah, No, I, I wasn't even
insinuating that that meant you

389
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,240
were a big shot or anything.
It's just some people walked

390
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,760
straight in and went to the
console and that was it.

391
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,480
That was their gig, right?
And but I think the smarter

392
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,320
people work their way through
the system 1st and really

393
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,480
understood everything that was
going on and how it went

394
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,600
together and everything.
Which do you know?

395
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,640
Ethan Weber from the Stones, the
lighting director for the

396
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,800
Stones.
I do not never worked with the

397
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,960
stones.
He was he was on the podcast

398
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,960
yesterday and we talked to him
about that because same sort of

399
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,160
thing.
You know, it's like not everyone

400
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,880
needs to or wants to be the
lighting designer.

401
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,280
And as the director, you know, I
have all the pinch me moments.

402
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,480
I get to sit there when the
house lights go out and and make

403
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,640
things happen.
And you know, it's that's what I

404
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,320
do and I do it really well.
And I have a collaboration with

405
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,960
the designer and I don't feel
slighted that I'm not the guy

406
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,400
listed as the lighting designer,
for example.

407
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,120
So, so yeah.
Cool.

408
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,320
So how did it, how did it all
progress?

409
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,320
So like once you met John, did,
did it immediately click that he

410
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,800
wanted you to come work for
Meyer or did that happen much

411
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,760
later in life?
How did how did that happen?

412
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,640
Meyer Sound was not yet a
company when I.

413
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,320
Met.
And so he had come back to the

414
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,360
United States after his
adventures in Switzerland and,

415
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,360
and he was starting to do, he
was basically freelancing out

416
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:28,040
design work for FM productions.
He, he designed a system and

417
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,360
then then the company started
and they did their first

418
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,640
products which were a subwoofer
for Apocalypse Now and then the

419
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,280
Ultra monitor, which is a stage
monitor.

420
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,680
And so I was working for FM when
we took hold of both of those

421
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,000
products that the subwoofers did
their cinema run.

422
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,400
And then what are you going to
do with them?

423
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,040
So, so they came to FM and we
started doing Grateful Dead

424
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,960
shows with them and then we did
the pardon me, then we did the

425
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,040
then we did the first shows with
this, this new technology, the

426
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,240
ultra monitor.
And it was a new technology

427
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,280
because it was the first case
where somebody was taking a

428
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,160
complete system, a speaker, the
crossover and electronics

429
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,720
dedicated and the speaker
protection all in one.

430
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,680
There's no way you could not buy
it as a parts.

431
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,920
And, and we all laughed at it
was like, huh, what is this

432
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,680
little thing?
And then we talked into the mic

433
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,200
and we went, what just happened?
And that was on that day that I

434
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,560
knew.
It's like, OK, I need to be

435
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,360
involved with this.
Yeah, and that was when.

436
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,440
That was the end of 1979, start
of 1980.

437
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,040
And so that's when then the
company officially started.

438
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,000
And then I got a, A, a design
gig for a small club.

439
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,400
And I said, they said we want
the highest quality speaker you

440
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,280
can get.
And I said, I know where it is.

441
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,720
And so that became the first
installation of Meyer Sound.

442
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:15,560
So it was the place where they
could send clients to, to hear

443
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,480
the system.
And that began my partnership

444
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,520
with them.
Wow.

445
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,840
As a really first as a client?
Yeah, they're serial number

446
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,920
0007.
That is crazy.

447
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,040
I love that.
That's not that picture you sent

448
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,040
me, is it?
That is that that is that that

449
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,840
picture.
Oh, I want to share that now.

450
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,200
Is that OK?
Yeah.

451
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,560
I'm going to hang on a second.
Let me just pop this up here.

452
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,400
Is that it there?
Yep.

453
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,000
So this is a tiny little club in
Berkeley, CA.

454
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,040
It's called the Berkeley Square
and there was now this is what

455
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,920
you see on there is the is the
subwoofers.

456
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,520
Those were the original
subwoofers from Apocalypse Now

457
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:08,440
and then that is the UPA.
The original installation was

458
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,880
the Ultra monitor.
It was the stage monitor which I

459
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,240
rigged up there.
But then the UPA became

460
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,760
available a year later and we
changed it out.

461
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,160
Interesting.
That's wild.

462
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,200
And people would come in and
they would see this PA and this

463
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,040
is a punk rock nightclub.
We had, you know, a bunch of

464
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:33,120
people who would become later
famous, the go Go's X and a

465
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:40,840
bunch of Black Flag and flipper
and icons in the in the in the

466
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,600
punk community.
And they would look at it and

467
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,320
they would go that there's no
way we.

468
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,280
Need and this is this.
It's the first ever Meyer sound

469
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,720
install.
Yeah, I think there was a small

470
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,520
club called Bimbo's over in San
Francisco that was doing, you

471
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,760
know, kind of cabaret kind of
stuff.

472
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,240
But this was the place where it
was really put to to the test.

473
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,400
And and so they would, they
would all, they would laugh at

474
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,440
it.
And then I'd say, well, do you

475
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,200
want to just hear it first?
And I would turn it on.

476
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,480
And it was the mouse that
roared.

477
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,480
And there's fun, OK?
Yeah, that's incredible.

478
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,760
I love it.
Yeah.

479
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,440
So, so then what?
Like how did, how did things

480
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,320
just kept progressing from there
and.

481
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,800
So Meyerstalm was a small
company and it was out by

482
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,120
Oakland airport.
And then they moved to Berkeley

483
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,560
in 1983.
And I said, well, if you're

484
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,200
moving to Berkeley, which is
where I lived, then you must be

485
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,000
expanding.
What do you say?

486
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,360
Let's what did you say?
I joined the company and they

487
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,760
said let's do it.
So that's where it began.

488
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,600
In 80.
Three, yeah.

489
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,440
So it's 40 years, Jesus.
And you still work for them

490
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,600
today?
Yeah.

491
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,840
And you've worked for them
non-stop for 40 years?

492
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,240
No.
No, I, I, I did a freelance

493
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:11,320
period between 19 seventy, 1997
and 2014, but I always stayed

494
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,040
affiliated.
They, they, they were a big part

495
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,720
of my business.
So I did a lot of consulting

496
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,400
work and still did trainings for
them and was still involved with

497
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,320
development of the, of the same
analyzer next generation and

498
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,760
these kind of things.
So my my bond is a is a lifetime

499
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,320
bond with with the company.
And so your role has always been

500
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,200
sort of on the user slash design
side, or?

501
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,760
Yes.
Well, where my, my thing was

502
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,960
that I came to the company with
a knowledge of touring because I

503
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,160
had touring experience, but I
was young and so I was able to

504
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,520
still be mobile.
I could get out in the fields

505
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,640
and and do customer assistance.
I wasn't running the company so

506
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560
I could get out there.
I mean, John of course had Rd.

507
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,760
experience and others, but they
were vital to keep the

508
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,960
engineering going and production
going.

509
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,640
They had to sign payroll checks.
You didn't.

510
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,800
Yeah, exactly.
So I could get out there and I

511
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:18,920
had then developed, you know,
methodologies for using the gear

512
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,480
and I began to write and started
writing user manual kind of

513
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,600
things on on how to apply the
stuff and that led them to later

514
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,120
writing entire books on on the
subject.

515
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,120
Yeah, how many books have you
written?

516
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,600
I've written three different
books and the my then my main

517
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,400
book is in its third edition
now.

518
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,240
Wow.
Yeah, Cool.

519
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,160
And they're all on sound theory.
Whatever.

520
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,800
Yeah.
Yeah, they're all on

521
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,240
application.
They are essentially they're

522
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,200
books.
Cause what happened was in 1984

523
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,640
I got John and I started what
with what's called the SIM

524
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,040
analysis program.
And if you go to that next

525
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,600
picture, you're going to see the
early primordial version of

526
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,600
that.
I will give me one second here.

527
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,560
It's a, it's an analyzer that is
able to look at the music that's

528
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:26,080
leaving the mix console.
There we are the IT compares the

529
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,920
music leaving the mix console
with what's actually arriving

530
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,880
out there with the audience.
So it's a, it's what's it

531
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,800
called, a dual channel fast
Fourier transform or FFT

532
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400
analyzer.
What you see on this picture is

533
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,640
and that's.
This thing right here.

534
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,720
Exactly.
So that's a piece of Hewlett

535
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,800
Packard laboratory gear and that
is what we use for R&D and for

536
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,680
production testing at the
company.

537
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,400
But we took it off of, out of
the company and brought it out

538
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:59,400
into the field and, and that's
began what is now 100% standard

539
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,840
operating procedure at every
show.

540
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:09,240
The, the, the, the smart system,
SMAART is the direct descendant

541
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:15,000
and owns that market.
Now it's a $600.00 program and,

542
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,480
and a sound card or a, or a
little sound device.

543
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,880
Now what it, you know, at that
time it was a, that's a $12,000

544
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:30,160
analyzer in 1984 dollars plus a
whole pile of outboard gear.

545
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,320
It grew to 600 lbs.
Yeah, jeez.

546
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,480
For the full multi channel
version with that could do 8

547
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,880
microphones and eight equalizers
and and all that kind of stuff.

548
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,760
And that's doing what again?
Well, it's analyzing the system

549
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,480
so that you can see it's like,
OK, I've got my speakers up.

550
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,040
What's what's happening to the
speakers now that they are

551
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,760
interacting with each other, now
that they're interacting with

552
00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,360
the room, You know, basically
all, all of the reflections or,

553
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,840
or straight paths.
Anytime you have two speakers,

554
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,840
you, they, they cross pollinate
and they create a change in the

555
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,679
spectrum, essentially blending
colors.

556
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,080
If you look at it in light
terms.

557
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,800
So that, so that we end up then
with all the these scatter plots

558
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,639
of, of, of where the sound goes.
You know, the, the, the thing

559
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,000
that separates light and sound
is everybody can see where the

560
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,280
light goes.
If somebody if a light gets

561
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,280
diffracted and and sprays off to
the wrong direction, everybody

562
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,400
can see it.
But if something causes the

563
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,880
sound to bend to the wrong
place, you just know it doesn't

564
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,960
sound good where you are.
Right.

565
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,040
You don't realize that it's,
it's aimed itself into the

566
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,560
ceiling because you can't see it
go up there.

567
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,199
And so these analysis tools, we
can place microphones all out of

568
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,360
the room and we can find where
it's gone.

569
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:53,920
And that's really what it's
about.

570
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,920
It's about turning us from blind
people into, you know, assisted.

571
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,720
And we obviously have similar
devices today that are that are

572
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,760
a little more, maybe a little
more high tech, but you know,

573
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,720
obviously it's advanced a lot
now.

574
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,000
Oh, yeah, it's now, it's now so
common.

575
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,460
You can have this, You can have
what's inside of that Hewlett

576
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:19,480
Packard device that's can fit on
a phone app.

577
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,240
Yeah.
Yeah, OK.

578
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,720
I mean that's it's changed.
The math.

579
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,400
The math has now been condensed
and it's a world of computers.

580
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,440
I mean literally that thing is
transistors and diodes.

581
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:32,880
Yeah, yeah.
So.

582
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,400
That's wild.
Yeah.

583
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:42,520
So you know when so I mean,
obviously back then we're

584
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,680
talking about stacks of
speakers, right?

585
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,360
It's all point.
Source Stacks of speakers.

586
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,720
Yes.
When when did the first line

587
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:55,920
array creep in?
The late 90s is when the, the V

588
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,320
DOS, which is the the innovator
in that field.

589
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:06,240
And by the early 2000's the line
array has become the dominant

590
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:11,080
species.
And it's, you know, there was a

591
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,600
there was a period where line
arrays were called on to do

592
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,080
everything, even when they were
really not the right tool.

593
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,360
It's like sometimes a
screwdriver is better than a

594
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,920
wrench.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

595
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200
But a hammer always works.
Exactly.

596
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,160
Yeah.
No, I, you know, like the way

597
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,360
that I explain it in my idiot
words is, is usually that, you

598
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,480
know, stacks of speakers were
usually sort of brute force.

599
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,680
If you needed to hit a different
part of the arena or the

600
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,880
building, you just turned it up
louder or added more stacks of

601
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,680
speakers or whatever.
But, you know, this is a much

602
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,320
more mathematical approach where
things are directed exactly in

603
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,760
every part of the room where
they need to be, you know,

604
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,120
smaller sources, more of them
directed to very specific parts

605
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,040
of the room.
Right.

606
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,920
Is that sort of truthful?
Very truthful.

607
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,120
We'll think about think about
having, you know, as a lighting

608
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:15,000
person, think if you have just a
big Bank of, of a par lamps that

609
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,800
are just, you know, completely
splashing wide.

610
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,800
And but then you're given the,
the opportunity to go and, and

611
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,520
get something with the Super
tight beam.

612
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,440
Now that affords you a whole
different opportunity.

613
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:32,520
And in our case, the, the, the,
the thing that people don't

614
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:38,360
realize that was that had to
happen before this move happened

615
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,120
was that you had to get speakers
ready to fly.

616
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,040
Because at the time I started in
the industry, sound design is

617
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,160
basically how high can you go
before it's going to tip over.

618
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,920
Yeah, yeah, it's so true.
OK.

619
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,360
And the you know or.
People's ears bleed, you know,

620
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,960
in the 1st 10 rows or whatever.
They do and it was just

621
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,440
horrendous.
It's just horrendous when you

622
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,440
have wanted to a stadium and you
have to go through the 1st row

623
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,560
to get, you know, to get to 100
yards away.

624
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,360
And it was really brutal.
And I can remember the the first

625
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,360
time that we flew a system at
Choco, it was like holy God,

626
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,800
what an amazing difference to
have front to back uniformity.

627
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,080
Of course, what was it?
It was one of those construction

628
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,120
trays, like they used to take up
a whole bunch of painters or

629
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,120
something.
So we just ground, stacked and

630
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,200
then raised the tray up.
Yeah.

631
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,760
So it was the same stuff.
It was just you were separating

632
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,200
the mid highs from the from the
Subs or whatever.

633
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,840
Exactly.
And so up it went.

634
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,760
But at least it got us to where
nobody was a foot in away from.

635
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,560
The speakers, yeah.
You weren't being screamed at

636
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,800
all night.
Yeah, Yeah.

637
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,200
So, so the idea with a line
array, when, when so you're

638
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,640
saying VDV DOS came out with it,
L acoustics came out with with

639
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,920
line array.
And so that whole concept, was

640
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,840
it immediately accepted?
Like did everyone just go, Oh my

641
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,840
God, finally?
Or, or was it like, no I don't

642
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:20,880
really like it?
Well, it it started and and it

643
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,320
took time.
They were very protective of the

644
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,760
product to to how it was
handled.

645
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,040
They wanted to make sure that it
was always handled in their, you

646
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,560
know, in their manner, which is
something that we could relate

647
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,240
to because Meyer sounded by
making its systems captive was

648
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:45,480
also used that philosophy.
But they, they, they held, held

649
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:51,400
out and they explained their
theory and then it just kept

650
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,320
delivering results.
And the industry said, well,

651
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,120
we're going to have to do this.
So then it became accepted.

652
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,800
And then other manufacturers had
to answer to that.

653
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,640
And that's funny.
That's then.

654
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,840
Then you get a, you know, Then
it becomes a Stampede.

655
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,200
Yeah, yeah, it just became a
wave of of everyone and you

656
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,640
know, like what?
I know I'm jumping way ahead

657
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,840
here and I'll go backwards again
in a second, but I've always

658
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,520
been curious.
Like every year I see a new, you

659
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,560
know, J series, K series, L
series, M series, you know, they

660
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,280
just keep coming out with these
new series and everybody's

661
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,680
unloading their old ones.
This is how I learned about them

662
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,680
because I own a used equipment
website.

663
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:39,640
And so people unload the J to
get the K or the KSL or whatever

664
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,160
it is, right?
And So what is advancing like

665
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,800
what are the, what are the OR
are they little micro

666
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,280
advancements now or are there
still big leaps being taken on

667
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,400
the speaker side of of sound
technology right now?

668
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,080
It's incremental.
Yeah.

669
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,320
It's incremental, but it's but
it's, it's, it's absolutely, you

670
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,480
know, knowable and hearable.
You know, there's a there's a

671
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:13,120
number of things happening. 1 is
that our our our materials

672
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:19,680
technology is improving and the.
Lighter, lighter, stronger, more

673
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,960
reliable, that kind of thing.
Yes.

674
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,560
And, and the key things is that
we have, our industry is, is

675
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:34,480
robust enough now to that people
are upping the level of research

676
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,120
and development.
There's there's, you know,

677
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,800
people that, you know,
specialize in, in these

678
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:47,440
materials that are bringing a
whole lot of brain power to, to

679
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,080
these, you know, special
specialized metals and, and

680
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,560
carbon fiber and, and adapted
things.

681
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,960
And then additionally, there's
there's a lot of brains going at

682
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,560
horn math now.
Really.

683
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,960
Yeah, because I mean horns were
developed, you know, a lot in

684
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:13,520
some cases with with the math of
the day back in the in on the

685
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,160
40s or whatnot and files and
Bondo.

686
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,560
Yeah.
OK.

687
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,920
And some of them were made just
like just by somebody's hunches.

688
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,960
But we're, you know, there's,
there's really big powerful math

689
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,840
models now that can, that can
see what's going on in a horn

690
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,000
over its range.
You know, one of the things

691
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,040
that's difficult about audio,
that's, that's a good way to

692
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,440
contrast to lighting.
Lighting, to use our terms, the

693
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,880
whole spectrum of lighting is
less than an octave.

694
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,160
OK.
And so you don't need a totally

695
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:56,520
different lamp to, to, to, to do
The Color Purple than red at

696
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,880
your opposite sides of the
spectrum.

697
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Whereas we do, because, you
know, from 30 Hertz to 18

698
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:09,200
kilohertz is 600 to one range.
And so, so to control, you know,

699
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,560
30 Hertz, you need a rudder 6 *
600 times bigger than what it

700
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:20,280
takes to control 18 kilohertz.
And the thing about horns is, is

701
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,960
that it's the classic Goldilocks
thing.

702
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,640
Some frequencies are too big,
some are too small, and some are

703
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,440
just right and OK.
If they're too big, the horn

704
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,560
doesn't control them, the rudder
doesn't work.

705
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,000
If they're too small, they
bounce side to side inside the

706
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,480
horn and get stray pass and ping
off the wrong way.

707
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,920
If they're just right, they fit
in there and they follow the

708
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,600
shape of the horn.
So and.

709
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,360
So what are the big advancements
being made in horns then?

710
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,480
Is it the materials or is it
just actually the shape, the

711
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,320
design?
It's mostly shaping.

712
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,840
Yeah, yeah, interesting, huh.
I wouldn't have thought that I

713
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,560
would have thought there's
always more technology going

714
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,160
into bass, you know, like I, I
was a bass player growing up, by

715
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,480
the way.
So, so yeah, that's, that's

716
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,960
really interesting.
So you know, they are they are

717
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,200
you also now getting to a point
where sound system design is

718
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,800
starting to focus a little bit
on, I wouldn't say efficiency

719
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,800
because you're always focused on
efficiency, but like being able

720
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,320
to deliver the SPLS with less
power, with less actual

721
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,840
electricity, less weight, so
lower transport costs and all of

722
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,360
those things.
Is that all happening as?

723
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,240
Well, that is huge, yeah,
absolutely, hugely important

724
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,240
when you look at touring
packages.

725
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,880
Now, when you go into
competition on touring packages,

726
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:51,160
it's absolutely factored in what
your, what your weight is, how,

727
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,320
how, how many trucks does it
take another half a truck?

728
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,880
Boom, you're out.
If it takes more electricity,

729
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,920
then you've got to have more
generator power, these kind of

730
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,160
things.
Oh, these are hugely important

731
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:11,280
factors, Yeah.
So we, we work everything we can

732
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,680
to shave Oz off of these
products.

733
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,160
Yes.
See, we're starting to see that

734
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,040
in the lighting world and in
video as well, you know, where

735
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:22,360
you're looking at more of the
infrastructure stuff, not just

736
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,600
hay, bigger, louder, brighter,
whatever.

737
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,800
You're starting to look at the
fact that, hey, you know, these

738
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,600
tours in the world is looking
to, you know, not necessarily

739
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,720
become greener, but certainly
yes, if we can cut less

740
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:41,520
electricity, less weight,
smaller trucks, whatever it is

741
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,000
less trucks and it seems to be.
But what about the other one is

742
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,280
whether like our our systems, I
don't even know.

743
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,280
This is is a line array system
IP rated.

744
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,680
Yes.
Oh, they are.

745
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,520
Absolutely.
So they can, it's IP65 or

746
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,760
something.
I'm not good with those numbers,

747
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:07,320
but, but the they can be that
that depends on, well, different

748
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,360
companies have different levels
of, of weather, weather ability.

749
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,600
But but yes, that is a that is
an important factor.

750
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,120
You can't have your show stopped
because of rain.

751
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,320
Yeah, yeah, of course.
And you can't put big plastic

752
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,320
bags over your your line arrays
either.

753
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:33,560
The age of the age of the show
goes behind Viz Queen is yeah.

754
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:39,160
So for you, for a a engineer,
designer, all of the things that

755
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:44,080
you do, how complicated was that
switch between, you know, what

756
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,080
do we call it point source
versus line array or stacks

757
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,680
versus line array or whatever,
but.

758
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,160
It's, it's, it's point source
versus line array and that and

759
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,960
and it's worth, it's worth
taking a moment to geek out and

760
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,280
explain what what the difference
is.

761
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Yeah, please.
Please, because I don't know

762
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,400
that I've ever heard it.
So if you, if you think about a,

763
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:11,360
what we call a point source
speaker, it has a, a constant

764
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,800
beam with you give it, you say
it's a 90° speaker.

765
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:21,080
So you, you say that at 10K, at
4K, at 2K, at 1K it's it's 90°

766
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,240
or as close to that as possible.
So if you want to partner it

767
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,840
with another speaker, you're
going to, you're going to have

768
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,040
this one cover this 90 and
another one cover that 90.

769
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,920
Or if it's 90 by 40, you might
have another speaker under it

770
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:40,040
that covers the next part.
And you think about it like

771
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:47,960
extensions of the shape and you
build it like blocks a a line

772
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,320
array in its horizontal might
was exactly like that.

773
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,200
It might be 90°, it might be 60,
it might be 110.

774
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,800
It's it's also constant cute,
but in it's vertical, that's

775
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,360
where the difference is.
In the vertical, the coverage

776
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,400
angle is yes.
Right, right, because you're

777
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,360
curving it.
No, it's not that it's curving,

778
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,120
it's that it it changes
purposefully with frequency.

779
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,040
Explain that.
I will explain that at the at

780
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,400
the at the highest frequency,
it's razor razor narrow.

781
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,520
OK.
OK, so like let's say it's 5°.

782
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,360
OK.
But an octave lower it's 10° and

783
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,120
an octave lower it's 20° and it
keeps, keeps widening.

784
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,440
It's what we call proportional
QQ is a, is a term for, for

785
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,480
width of, of the, of the beam.
OK, so as you, as you, as you go

786
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,800
down in frequency, it gets
wider.

787
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,280
And so now here's what you're
going to get.

788
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,760
You look at that set of 12
speakers and they have a small

789
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,160
angle of maybe 5°.
Let's just put them all at 5°.

790
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:06,200
That means that you have 5 *
1260° of 10 kilohertz provided

791
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,800
by you.
Do the first part, then I hand

792
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,120
it off to the second and each
one shares.

793
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,720
Interesting.
But by an octave lower.

794
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,720
It's a 10° speaker, but it still
has an angle of five, so it's

795
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,920
overlapping by half of its
pattern.

796
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,680
Yeah.
So the so the so I'm going to

797
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,320
hear one box at 10K and I'm
going to hear two boxes at 4K,

798
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,280
and I'm going to hear four boxes
at 2K.

799
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,000
And on it goes.
By the time you reach 250 Hertz,

800
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,520
it's already, you know, 100 or
200° wide.

801
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,640
I'm hearing a community project.
OK.

802
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,080
Interesting.
So.

803
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,120
So the low end starts off super
directional and becomes

804
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,920
controlled by the community
because the more speakers you

805
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,280
add, the narrower it gets in the
low end.

806
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,000
Why?
Which is a counterintuitive

807
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:09,080
because they overlap and they
add in phase.

808
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,120
Think of it like like a.
Pyramid.

809
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,120
OK, OK.
Got it.

810
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:14,320
Yeah, OK.
So.

811
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,240
So any time that that that 2
audio signals are overlapping,

812
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,360
if they're equal in level, their
timing, which is the phase

813
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,720
decides where the sound goes.
And that goes back to the thing

814
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:27,840
I said.
Sound can steer itself in

815
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,640
strange places.
That's how it steers it because

816
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,280
the phase will steer it.
But whereas at up in there at

817
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:39,320
the very high end, you're saying
I'm going to fire my beam super

818
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,960
tight so that the if the top box
were to turn off, the people at

819
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,400
the bottom would never know it.
Yeah.

820
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,520
And the only way they would know
if they heard anything would be

821
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,800
a slight change in the low
frequencies because one out of

822
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,400
12 boxes stopped transmitting in
the low end.

823
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,120
But they would they never knew
about the high end.

824
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,880
And likewise, people at the
bottom don't know anything about

825
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,720
the top boxes.
But it's a community effort that

826
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:11,120
then goes away as you rise in
frequency to individual.

827
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,600
So what we do now is we we shape
the display angles in that thing

828
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,280
to shape the highest
frequencies, to precisely sculpt

829
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,960
them to where they need to go.
Yeah.

830
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:28,000
And then the low frequencies go
as a big project.

831
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,920
And and every box basically has
mid high and then the the Subs

832
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,160
obviously are are in a separate
box.

833
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,360
And so it's interesting.
I never, I never realized that

834
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,000
that's how that worked.
And so when you're when you're

835
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,080
changing the curvature of an
array, is that based on the size

836
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,320
of the room, the coverage,
basically the how far the

837
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,200
speaker needs to fire sound out
and then based on that target

838
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,120
point, that's where you're
setting your angles?

839
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,240
Yes, it's a, it's a, it's a
thing.

840
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:06,160
I call the the range ratio, the
ratio between the farthest that

841
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,920
CC you have to cover and the
nearest C.

842
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:14,800
So let's say that it's 200 feet
to the farthest seats and it's

843
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:20,320
50 feet to the nearest seats.
That's a four to one ratio.

844
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,400
That's translates in audio to 12
DB.

845
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:29,320
So I need to do 12 DB of shaping
or 4 to one my my I need 4 boxes

846
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,480
to cover up there where one box
covers down there.

847
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,720
Right.
Interesting.

848
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,080
Yeah.
And so does that become more

849
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,480
complicated or less complicated
in a larger space like a

850
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,440
stadium?
It it becomes the the

851
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,800
complication level is, is about
if there's wrinkles in the shape

852
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,920
a state, a stadium could have a
nice easy, steady drop easy

853
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,960
money, or it could OK, right,
right, right, right.

854
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,920
And now you're in trouble.
Yeah, I mean, some of those

855
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,560
examples came from, I remember
the what were they that

856
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:11,040
obnoxious Spice Girls when the
Spice Girls did the the football

857
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,120
stadium tour?
And I remember after the first

858
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,480
show, the sound company was just
slaughtered in the press, like

859
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,240
the sound, we could hardly even
hear the band.

860
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,680
And the band complained and
everyone complained and, and,

861
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,920
but I mean, these football
places were not made for music.

862
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,520
They were made to to basically
amplify the crowd screaming at

863
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:39,440
the, you know, away team.
So it just seemed to be a mess,

864
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,040
like a bad place to try and put
a sound system.

865
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,920
But it's a it's a bad place.
But now you're going back to

866
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,480
Shea Stadium and The Beatles.
Yeah, yeah.

867
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,280
That's true.
They're they're going to book

868
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,040
those stadiums.
That's that's what, that's the

869
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,400
economic model that we live in.
So you have to.

870
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,000
You have to make it work.
And, and there's really no

871
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,480
excuse for production not to be
able to cover the full room

872
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,400
because the technology is there.
That all those seats I saw, I

873
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,200
saw the pictures of the the
people and they're, you know,

874
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,440
they were, they had seats that
were had good visibility to the

875
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,120
stage.
And yeah, no, nobody was giving

876
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,320
them the sound.
So, yeah, so.

877
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,480
You're thinking that was like
operator error, basically or or

878
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,200
system design error, or
somewhere along the line they

879
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,440
just didn't get it right.
I'm I'm.

880
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:37,760
I can't say conclusively, but my
suspicion is the the dreaded 2

881
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,080
letters VE.
Yeah, yeah, they cut costs.

882
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,160
Yeah, engineering too.
And it's like, OK, so, so they,

883
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,080
they, you know, they, they
sorted out on the, the side,

884
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,760
upper, upper side hang.
And yes, that's those people

885
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,320
paid their money.
I, as I often say, there's,

886
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,160
there's no cheap seats anymore.
There's expensive seats and

887
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,280
there's extortion seats and
there's sell the House seats.

888
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,840
Right, right.
Yeah, that's great.

889
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,360
Yeah, Well, I mean, now like, I
don't know it, it's just so

890
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,560
crazy right now, all of it.
But so I was at, I know that

891
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:16,280
we're going to get to it at some
point.

892
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,000
So I'm going to mention
Metallica now.

893
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:24,080
So what has been your
collaboration role, whatever you

894
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,040
want to call it, with Metallica
over the last however many

895
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,680
years?
Starting at the end of 2016, I

896
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,760
became involved in Metallica
when they began working with the

897
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:42,440
the VLFC, which is a special
subwoofer that goes below normal

898
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,680
subwoofers down to 13 Hertz,
which they added to their system

899
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:53,120
because they wanted to have the
feeling of pyro without the risk

900
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,840
of pyro.
Well, having just watched

901
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:01,840
Metallica in, in Canada last
summer in that stadium show that

902
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,880
they're doing, I can tell you,
you ain't wrong.

903
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,680
Like I, I was like, what is
that?

904
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,960
And I just happened to be
standing probably 20 feet in

905
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,960
front of the, in front of the
Subs or whatever, away from the

906
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,640
Subs.
And yeah, it was, it was your

907
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,960
stomach was moving.
You know, that's that's base

908
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,960
that I hadn't heard in a while.
Yeah, and the, the this tour

909
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,400
uses the, you know, originally
they just use it for effects.

910
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:37,480
It only worked, you know, one
minute a day, but now it works

911
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,920
the full show.
And it's really very musical and

912
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,840
really wonderful because what it
does for the kick drum, for

913
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,320
example, is it it, it puts, it
gets to kick drum, the energy

914
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,880
that makes it actually like a
real kick drum.

915
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,040
It's a real kick drum does go
down there.

916
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,960
We're just used to a world that
starts at 30 Hertz, but it's

917
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,920
there in the original source
material.

918
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,640
Can you hear 18 Hertz or you can
just feel it?

919
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,720
Absolutely you can hear it.
OK.

920
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,240
And what, what a proof of this.
And this was a classic John

921
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:09,240
Myers.
I, I, I came to the, you know,

922
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:12,480
like, OK, it's, you know, seems
like we can hear down to 13

923
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,320
years.
Someone was able to tell when

924
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,000
the pitch was wrong.
He says, well, hello, Bach had

925
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,560
a, a pipe organ that had a 16
Hertz pipe.

926
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,000
It's like.
Really interesting I.

927
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,600
Was like, OK, I didn't know that
piece of history.

928
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,000
Now I.
Do me neither, yeah.

929
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,680
So yes is the answer.
Yeah, because we had an effect

930
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:39,560
once where we, he, the the
assistant engineer, wellied up a

931
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:48,360
A tone for the finish of a song
and and he just put a tone in as

932
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,160
the guitars were finishing the
song.

933
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,480
And he was and it was, it was
sour.

934
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,080
And Rob Koenig pointed out, he
says, you know, like I think

935
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,360
that you've got the wrong note
there.

936
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,240
And the argument begins like, is
there a note?

937
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,520
It's just 13 Hertz that nobody
can hear the note there.

938
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,400
It's like, so then I asked what
was the, what chord were the

939
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,760
guitars playing, which started a
discussion, is D sharp or E

940
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,200
flat?
And somebody was convinced

941
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,360
there's a difference.
Me.

942
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,760
Yeah.
But we we found and we tuned the

943
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:24,280
oscillator just changed it by 1
Hertz and now boom it was in

944
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,000
tune.
So interesting you can.

945
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,960
Hear that?
Amazing.

946
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,000
Well, it's amazing that a
drummer would pick it up because

947
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,080
I, I believe Rob's a drummer if
I remember.

948
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,360
Correctly, he's a He's a smart
guy, he's a smart guy.

949
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,520
Rob's a smart dude.
And as I often say, everybody's

950
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,560
got two jobs.
There's and sound.

951
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,800
Nah, that's kind of true, ain't
it?

952
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,440
Yeah, that's funny.
So when you started, so you said

953
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,520
2016, So what really was your
role?

954
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,280
You were just like a
representative of of Meyer and

955
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,640
helping them change their.
Well, I'm, I'm the applications

956
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,360
guy.
And so then, then they asked me

957
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:10,360
to come to come to Copenhagen
where they were starting a tour

958
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,760
and to design the the system for
that.

959
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:18,680
And I did and, and Dan gave his
vision to me.

960
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,640
He says.
I want, you know, I want every

961
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,920
person to have a near field
experience.

962
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,240
Dan Brown.
Dan Brown Yes, and I really

963
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,080
wants everybody to be listening
to a pair of AMI studio

964
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,800
monitors.
You know, that's the experience

965
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,040
I want.
And I was like, OK, and I

966
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,440
incrementally pushed them in
that direction was more hangs,

967
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,480
but we we brought speakers out
closer to the people cover the

968
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,920
cover the upper areas with
sisters speakers that were

969
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:53,600
closer in to them and brought
some intimacy to the things.

970
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,560
And people don't think that you
should separate out systems if

971
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:01,200
you're doing a metal band.
And maybe that was true in the

972
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,760
olden days, but now we have the
technology.

973
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,240
To you mean like delay towers
and stuff like that or?

974
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,360
Or what what what we call a,
what we call a, a distributed

975
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,440
system.
OK, OK, so that's a, you know,

976
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,920
you think of Rock'n'roll and you
think of everything compact and

977
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,320
all super tight together.
And the last thing you think

978
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:25,000
about it is all exploded out.
And well, it turns out that with

979
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,920
the technology that we have now,
because we have such good

980
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:33,440
controlled systems that we can
explode the systems and now give

981
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,960
people that near field
experience.

982
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,600
And if you bring up there's a
picture of the of the world

983
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:44,640
wired, a world wired world wired
tour, which is almost impossible

984
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,000
to say.
Yes, that's fine.

985
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,040
And you'll see a picture of what
evolved.

986
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,000
There it is.
Yeah, that's it right there.

987
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:57,320
I just got lucky.
Yeah, so this is the next thing

988
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:02,200
that happened was this tour.
Well, actually we did a we did a

989
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,080
standard stadium tour, but then
instead of 2017.

990
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:11,520
But this is the, this was a
really big innovation because

991
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,880
the, the area where you normally
want to put PA was completely

992
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,360
occupied by those lights, which
are these cubes of video with

993
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,120
lights inside of them.
And they are on hoist so that

994
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,040
they can come up and down.
So they're a dynamic load.

995
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:30,040
So they were really, we had to
bring the PA out.

996
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,720
And you can see all that, all
the PA that you see there is

997
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,120
over the audience.
Jesus, if if nothing, if it

998
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,640
fell, not one speaker would hurt
the band.

999
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:42,400
It would all fall on the
audience.

1000
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,360
And you can see subwoofers at
the top of the picture, like a

1001
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,200
like a, like a dancing set of
three subwoofers coming at you.

1002
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,080
That's a steered subwoofer array
to bring the sound down, even

1003
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,320
though it's over the audience,
you have to clear down.

1004
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:58,240
Yeah, right.
Up here, yeah.

1005
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,520
No, yeah, to the right.
There.

1006
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,800
My, my, my, my mouth's just
split into.

1007
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,520
That's pretty wild.
I have two cursors on my side

1008
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,800
so.
Oh, funny, so you're saying.

1009
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,920
So that's what's covering.
That's the subwoofers.

1010
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,520
Now go straight down from there
and you'll see there's a little

1011
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,360
array.
It's kind of hidden here.

1012
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,360
That's it.
So that's what I call a belly

1013
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,040
flop array.
That array is facing almost

1014
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:27,720
straight down, and that covers
to the people, to the crash

1015
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,640
barrier.
And then they intersect with the

1016
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:35,040
bottom of the curved arrays that
you see spinning out of that

1017
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:36,160
picture.
Yeah.

1018
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,760
Wow.
And so was this the first time

1019
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,760
that they used Meijer or had
they already been a Meijer

1020
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,920
customer before that?
They had been a Meijer customer

1021
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:52,000
for long, long before that.
They for for a long time they've

1022
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:56,720
been a great customer for us and
we we actually innovative some

1023
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:05,280
stage monitors just for them and
they yeah, so we've had a long

1024
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,320
and good relationship.
I think there's one more picture

1025
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,240
of this on the next slide.
There you go.

1026
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,360
Now you can see and now you can
see the belly flop array and the

1027
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,800
subwoofers that with that
stagger that steered them down.

1028
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,560
Yeah, here, yeah.
There's another one to your to

1029
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,280
the left on your picture you can
see it how I would face it

1030
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:22,720
straight.
Down there, yeah.

1031
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:29,400
OK, so it goes together like,
like a really amazing little

1032
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:36,360
puzzle of pieces, but everything
can be timed and put together in

1033
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,440
pretty much a similar way each
night.

1034
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,360
And this is using, of course,
the technology that I showed you

1035
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,080
in that ancient picture of me at
the Grateful Dead show.

1036
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,920
Yeah.
With my with the Hewlett

1037
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,240
Packard.
So you're basically putting

1038
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,080
something into A and you know,
again, I'm going to show how

1039
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,240
dumb I really am.
But you're putting, you're

1040
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,680
putting some information into a
piece of software that says,

1041
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,520
here's how many people are going
to be in the room.

1042
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,160
Here's roughly where they're
going to be.

1043
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:07,320
What's the best position to to
play speakers in this strange

1044
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:08,560
shape?
Is what it came up with.

1045
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:15,440
Well, what we have modeling
that, that you put in the shape

1046
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,120
of the room and the shape of the
stage and the permissible, you

1047
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,280
put speakers at the locations
within the range that you've

1048
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,160
been given as permissible, which
was outside of that perimeter of

1049
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,120
those cubes.
And then you have to start

1050
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,600
working from there.
And then you, you know, then we

1051
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,880
then we get into how much weight
is on these points near the

1052
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,960
lighting and all those kind of
contingencies.

1053
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,680
But basically from a sound point
of view, I'm I'm going to work

1054
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,560
on a thing that looks like a
weather map.

1055
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:49,480
It's gonna, I'm gonna fire down
and and light up a heat map to

1056
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,240
show you where the coverage is.
Coverage, Yeah.

1057
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,520
Yeah, that makes sense.
I think you had a picture of

1058
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,400
that somewhere.
Yeah, as I recall.

1059
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,240
Now there you can go back.
Go back and you'll see.

1060
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,480
First we'll talk to this.
Now you can see the the cubes in

1061
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,240
action.
Yeah, I remember this show.

1062
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,640
Yeah, this was great.
This is very cool.

1063
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:15,200
And then the next picture is Big
Mick, big Mick Hughes, the mixer

1064
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,440
who's now retired but makes them
for 35 plus years.

1065
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:24,880
Great guy, Super super super
wonderful and just a just a real

1066
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,280
wizard.
So you were a couple years

1067
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,560
younger then?
Yes.

1068
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,080
Yeah, but still the colored
glasses.

1069
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,720
Has this been your trademark for
a while?

1070
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:35,800
Colored glasses, yeah.
Yes, yes.

1071
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,560
Ever since I tried and tried
every different version of

1072
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,280
contacts and once the contacts
were not a thing I said I'm

1073
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,920
going to go full on and we're
going to have fun with glasses.

1074
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,920
I'm OK, I'll do it, but I'm not
being normal.

1075
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:50,520
Exactly I.
Get it?

1076
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,160
Yeah, perfect.
Good for you.

1077
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,320
Cool.
Is there more that we need to

1078
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,120
see here or do you?
Want to just keep going?

1079
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:58,840
On the pictures.
Or yeah, let's just keep going

1080
01:05:58,840 --> 01:05:59,960
on the pictures.
Sure.

1081
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,920
I think we're right now this is
really going back to a different

1082
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,280
time now.
This is 2001.

1083
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,080
This is Tokyo Disney Sea.
And I don't just is this a

1084
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,400
Disney theme park.
That way I did the sound design

1085
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:22,720
for this and you're seeing a
system that would come out out

1086
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:29,360
of that, out of that bunker, do
it show and then go go back into

1087
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,720
the bunker.
So it just does a, it does a

1088
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,160
show in the daytime and another
show in the night time around

1089
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,320
this on the perimeter of this
lagoon that does a, you know, a

1090
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:41,760
boat show.
Yeah.

1091
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,840
And.
And when it goes away and

1092
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,320
doesn't impact sight lines and
all of that kind of stuff like?

1093
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:49,040
A big.
Ugly.

1094
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,400
A big ugly speaker tower that
doesn't.

1095
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,360
It takes away from the look of
the scene, I guess, that you're

1096
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,160
meant to be in.
Exactly.

1097
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,240
Yeah.
And it, and at night it, it

1098
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,040
sneaks up.
You don't even know it's, you

1099
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,840
know, it's already gotten dark
and it sneaks up and then all of

1100
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,680
a sudden it turns on and it's
got lighting on it and sound and

1101
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,080
it's quite spectacular.
And the volcano erupts and all

1102
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:11,880
sorts of.
Yeah, that's very cool.

1103
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,560
That's very cool.
And is this the same thing or?

1104
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,400
That's the that's the lagoon
where the where the show.

1105
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,520
And these are some of the floats
and some of the other parts of

1106
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,680
it.
But we basically had 44

1107
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,640
different locations around this
lagoon.

1108
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,720
It's the it's the closing show.
And so you, you know, everybody

1109
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,360
gathers around and, and that's
your big event.

1110
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,680
Yeah, this is.
We're all over the place here.

1111
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,840
Yeah, this is Tony Meola.
He's the sound designer of

1112
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:48,520
Wicked and he also did many,
many things, Les Miserables and

1113
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,800
countless, countless musicals.
He's just one of the greats.

1114
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,560
He would have 5 Tony Awards
except for he all of his work

1115
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,640
was in the era before they gave
Tony Awards for sound.

1116
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,200
Interesting.
Yeah.

1117
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:10,800
And this is Outside Lands.
This is a, a festival in Golden

1118
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:19,279
Gate Park in, in San Francisco.
It's it's it's AI got involved

1119
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:25,359
with this because we, we needed
to keep the sound levels down in

1120
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:30,399
the neighborhoods.
So I evaluated the the situation

1121
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:37,080
there and redesigned the system
to, to keep the sound on the on

1122
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:40,439
the people and not into the not
into Yelp.

1123
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,279
Of course that cost money.
They had to get more delay

1124
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,880
towers, but you know, that's
what you had to do.

1125
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,160
You have to.
You have to bring the sound

1126
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:55,399
further and aim the sound down.
Yeah, that's that basically the

1127
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:00,920
the distributed sound sort of
philosophy, I guess, right.

1128
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:05,439
Yes, yes, we brought more.
More speakers, less SPL per

1129
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,840
speaker basically.
Exactly, we brought the front of

1130
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:14,600
house was moved in closer so
that they could get happiness at

1131
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:19,200
a closer distance and they we
brought in instead of one delay

1132
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:24,920
tower, we we made it into two
sets of two delay towers.

1133
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,439
So it was a.
Big change, but that gave us the

1134
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,479
ability to really bring the
sound under control.

1135
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:38,720
OK, cool.
This is back, going back to oh,

1136
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:43,520
this is the new Metallica tour,
the the M72 tour, the one you

1137
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,680
saw in Edmonton and this is one
of my heat maps.

1138
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:53,080
I've got the, this happens to be
there, the Ajax Arena in

1139
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,720
Amsterdam where the you can see
it on Ted Lasso if you watch

1140
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,880
that TV show.
The the blue space there is

1141
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,600
there's a, there's a stage is a
circle and then there's a little

1142
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,360
tiny spot in the center called
the snake Pit where there's

1143
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,440
audience.
I don't have the snake pit

1144
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:13,760
speakers turned on in this
simulation.

1145
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:17,080
Yeah.
But you can see every place else

1146
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:18,280
is covered.
How is it covered?

1147
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:22,200
There are left and right hangs
on each of those eight towers

1148
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,920
and there is a web of speakers
with another inter set of eight

1149
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,040
hanging over the stage that
cover the area inside of the

1150
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,480
tower.
So it's basically speakers going

1151
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:37,600
backwards into the snake pit,
going forwards under the towers,

1152
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,920
and then the towers take it on
from there.

1153
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:46,680
Yeah, yeah, that's and then as I
recall, this is like all Subs,

1154
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,720
isn't it pretty?
Much Well, there's Subs.

1155
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,720
Originally the Subs were up on
the towers but we had a

1156
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:59,320
challenge and that is that the
the video panels could not

1157
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,640
sustain life with Subs in the.
Name right?

1158
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,040
I remember hearing about that.
I remember hearing that you were

1159
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:08,920
blowing out video panels with
the with the sound coming out of

1160
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:13,160
those Subs.
Yes, and so the Subs who who the

1161
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,040
video fails, so who gets
grounded?

1162
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,320
Yeah, it's funny.
Well, and you know, from what I

1163
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:25,640
understand anyways, is the
panels just maybe didn't have

1164
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,080
the right wind rating or
something like they were too,

1165
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:32,880
they went for a very high
resolution like 1.9mm pitch on

1166
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,440
the panels so that LE DS are so
close together.

1167
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:37,960
But then the problem is the
sound can't go through it, so it

1168
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:42,360
just hammers on the panel and
was causing them to fall apart.

1169
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,400
So yeah, I heard, I heard some
stories about that.

1170
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:54,080
Suffice to say, we hope someday
that they can resolve it.

1171
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:59,160
We our understanding is it's a
connector issue, but yeah.

1172
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,120
I, I had heard that it was just
a, a resolution issue on the

1173
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,840
panels cause the LE DS are so
close to, you know, it's like, I

1174
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,720
mean a mesh basically.
And if you have the mesh with

1175
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,680
the spaces, bigger wind can blow
through it without the mesh

1176
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,560
moving like this.
But if the spaces are smaller in

1177
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,240
the mesh, the, the wind actually
moves it and you'll tear the

1178
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,120
mesh or whatever.
And that's sort of what was

1179
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,080
happening with the panels.
That's the story I heard from.

1180
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:27,360
I don't remember if it was one
of the video techs out there or

1181
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,800
something, but somebody had told
me that story.

1182
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,320
So what are we looking at now?
So this is a a plot from the

1183
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,600
smart Analyzer, which is of
course the descendant of the

1184
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,360
analyzer shown in that ancient
history picture, right?

1185
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,640
And you can see the little blue
line that the bottom is the

1186
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,680
frequency response.
And you can see energy all the

1187
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,160
way down to 16 Hertz.
You see it there if you.

1188
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:51,560
Look.
Wow.

1189
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:52,520
Yeah.
OK.

1190
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:57,920
And then the the color thing
that you see up there is that's

1191
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:03,600
a that's updating with time.
Time zero time is at the bottom

1192
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,160
and past history is at the top.
So it's scrolling along as the

1193
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,640
music changes.
I see where where the energy is

1194
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,760
in the system.
That's cool.

1195
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:16,760
And here's those towers.
Yeah, so.

1196
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,240
Here is here is a tower and you
can see this was when we still

1197
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:25,320
had Subs inside the tower and
you can see they're behind the,

1198
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:29,480
there's an opening between, you
know, there's, there's two slots

1199
01:13:29,480 --> 01:13:32,400
for us to put sound in.
And so there's openings there

1200
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:38,240
and but the Subs being behind
them was enough to vibrate them

1201
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,920
and and damage them.
They didn't like it.

1202
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:43,760
Yep.
And so you can see there's a

1203
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,400
left and right hang.
And this is this is the first

1204
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,360
implementation of a complete
stereo system in a stadium.

1205
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:52,480
It's the first time that
anybody's ever done it.

1206
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:55,760
I mean, I know it's the age of
immersive sound, but let's get

1207
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,440
we get to all our immersive
sound.

1208
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,960
We never, nobody ever got stereo
until.

1209
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,160
Now, yeah, yeah.
OK.

1210
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,400
And this is stereo in the
stadium, in the round, so it's a

1211
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,280
remarkable thing.
It is and.

1212
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:12,160
I remember having a conversation
with Greg Price, who is the

1213
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,840
mixer for the for the band.
And it's like, so you know,

1214
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:18,560
what's the story on stereo?
I said.

1215
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,240
I said you must mix stereo
because literally I have every

1216
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,320
seat covered twice.
Jesus.

1217
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:32,120
So those James's guitar is in
the left and Kirk's guitar is in

1218
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,200
the right.
The drums move all the way

1219
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:39,320
across as he as he as he does a
drum sequence.

1220
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,880
So across the Toms, literally
it's moving.

1221
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:43,760
Now then somebody says, well,
but wait a minute.

1222
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,760
Well, for some people that left
is on the right and some people

1223
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,120
right is on the left said yeah,
it's an in the round stage,

1224
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,080
Yeah.
And they're running around in

1225
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:53,560
circles.
Yes, they are.

1226
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,400
Yeah, yeah.
So on the the drum kit just pops

1227
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:58,520
up in different areas.
Exactly.

1228
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,720
Yeah, it was really cool how
they handled it.

1229
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,440
I mean, I, I thought to be
perfectly honest, it it was

1230
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:07,400
probably one of the better in
the round shows I've ever seen,

1231
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:10,640
if if not the best as far as how
it was handled from a sound

1232
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:15,280
standpoint, video, lighting, the
band, everything.

1233
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,440
It was just really, really well
done.

1234
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,160
You.
You didn't feel left out no

1235
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,440
matter where you were seated.
Well, that's what I love about

1236
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:28,520
the show is that is that the
people everybody has nobody is

1237
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,080
is like so close.
They have the mother of all

1238
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,080
giant screens and other people
are looking at an iPhone.

1239
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:40,240
Screen, OK, yeah, yeah.
OK, every everybody is is close

1240
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,560
to some tower and nobody is in
any tower.

1241
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,920
So even the people up front are
seeing the tower that's across

1242
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:49,240
the stage.
Right.

1243
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:50,760
Right.
So yeah, that makes sense.

1244
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:55,320
So it's it's very even that way.
And I, I always felt that if it

1245
01:15:55,320 --> 01:16:00,120
felt like an arena ale show in a
stadium.

1246
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,760
Yeah.
You felt it was arena kind of

1247
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:07,880
distances or even closer than
that, and yet you look around

1248
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:09,760
and suddenly realize I'm in a
stadium.

1249
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:14,120
Yeah, yeah, it was weirdly
intimate for a stadium show.

1250
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:19,360
And you know, granted, we could
walk wherever we wanted, but you

1251
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,280
know, it was, it was weirdly
intimate.

1252
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:26,760
And by the way, it was the first
time, like I again, I don't tour

1253
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:32,000
with bands or anything, but I
had never seen the monitors done

1254
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,120
under the seats in the stadium
like they are, you know, with

1255
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,040
the whole remote monitor set up.
Oh yeah.

1256
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,360
I had never seen that before.
Like I for me, monitor consoles

1257
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:47,080
were always on the side of the
stage, you know, so that was

1258
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:52,600
interesting too.
You know how they and, and then

1259
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,800
I guess every member of the band
has a has a video camera on them

1260
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:59,120
and they can, you know, you
know, this up whatever my guitar

1261
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,360
up and somebody's watching the
video camera and responding to

1262
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:05,440
it as if they were on the side
of the stage, which obviously is

1263
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:08,080
hard to do when you've got in
the round like that.

1264
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,000
Yeah, and it's more than just
responding to that.

1265
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:15,640
Literally, James, they're all
wild variables and they can turn

1266
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,600
up on any mic at any time.
Yeah.

1267
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:22,360
So you're so you're watching
them and you're making sure that

1268
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:27,360
to turn on that mic and for the
monitor guys, they have to bring

1269
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,880
James's monitor mix to the
monitors that he just moved to.

1270
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:36,920
And then he runs, he runs away
and Kirk shows up there and they

1271
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,680
got to bring Kirk's monitor mix
to that location.

1272
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:44,720
So it's it's, it's a real job.
It's a these guys are like air

1273
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,200
traffic controllers.
It's that level of they're.

1274
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,200
Using stage monitors not not in
here they use.

1275
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,720
Both.
Interesting.

1276
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:58,000
They have they have in ears, but
they supplement with that and

1277
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:03,320
they like to be able to still
they to to keep they're they're

1278
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:05,400
really into contact with the
audience.

1279
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:06,680
Yeah.
They are.

1280
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:10,920
They are fanatical about that.
Which shows, you know, it's

1281
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:12,680
shows.
And it also probably has to

1282
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:14,800
their longevity.
You know, if you would have told

1283
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,840
me in 1985 or whatever that
Metallica, it'd still be gigging

1284
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,560
in 2025, I would have thought
you were an idiot.

1285
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,000
But here we are.
You know, there's there's a

1286
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,840
bunch of those the stones.
I mean, you know, again, talking

1287
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,040
to Ethan about that yesterday,
like they've been playing 60

1288
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,680
years, you know, that's insane.
That's like unbelievable.

1289
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:38,240
And and they haven't stopped
yet.

1290
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,160
So that's pretty cool.
Do I keep going here?

1291
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:42,800
Yeah.
Cool.

1292
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,680
OK, this is this is Walt Disney
Concert Hall.

1293
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,840
And I brought put this in just
to sort of just as a this is the

1294
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:57,240
kind of challenges that we have
in our lives of doing concerts

1295
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:04,720
in rooms that had total blatant
disregard for speakers.

1296
01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:10,520
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, look at those surfaces

1297
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:15,840
and how am I going to cover that
seat right next to the iceberg

1298
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:22,640
and not hit the iceberg?
I mean, if you look at these,

1299
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,720
OK, I mean, literally it's like
these, these, these, these

1300
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:31,920
things that are going to just do
horrendously bad echoes for me

1301
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,440
are parked right next to seats
that I need to cover.

1302
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:42,320
And I, I, I, I use this as an
example of of of like, OK, you

1303
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:48,120
know, this then lands in our lap
for us to short, short out.

1304
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:52,680
Yeah, solution for this and.
So how bad can it get Example.

1305
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,600
It's it's a real challenge and
this was a really good case of,

1306
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:59,880
of what I call architects gone
wild.

1307
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,360
Did you did you end up getting
it to sound OK except for a few

1308
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,160
seats probably.
Yes.

1309
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,360
Like there's some seats.
You just can't do anything to

1310
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,680
help in this place, obviously.
Well, and you have to you have

1311
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,680
to you know, then it becomes
gets on the booking agents to

1312
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:19,280
book artists that are
reverberation friendly.

1313
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:24,680
Yeah.
OK, do not put in a, a hip hop,

1314
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,080
a rap contest, OK?
Yeah, yeah, OK.

1315
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,840
Because you're you're just going
to lose it.

1316
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:37,160
But if you want to put in, bring
in Audra McDonald and you know

1317
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:41,160
that you can, you can totally
work in that, but you have to be

1318
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,000
mindful of what you book in
these, in these kind of things.

1319
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,120
Yeah, yeah, that's wild.
Jesus, what a weird room, huh?

1320
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,560
Yep, there's the famous
chopsticks pipe organ.

1321
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,400
Where's that?
That's that's the other.

1322
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,920
That's in that same place, yeah.
That's so, you know, you have to

1323
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:03,160
even cover seats behind the
stage as well.

1324
01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:05,440
Yeah, Jesus.
Yeah.

1325
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:08,520
So I mean, it's wow.
Huh.

1326
01:21:10,440 --> 01:21:13,520
So now we're back to Metallica
and this is a good on this

1327
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:18,720
picture, you can see of course,
the towers, but what they're Jay

1328
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:20,520
Day is at the bottom of the
picture.

1329
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:25,080
He's the assistant mixer and
he's looking at a video screen

1330
01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:30,560
that is that is an overhead
picture and he follows wherever

1331
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:34,560
James goes and his job like a a
part of his job.

1332
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:39,680
He has many jobs, but one of his
things is he he's basically like

1333
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:44,560
a video editor.
He switches on the correct mic

1334
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:48,760
so that Greg over there that's
mixing just has one fader for

1335
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:52,760
James's mic.
Wow, that's crazy.

1336
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:57,520
There are 12 possible positions
where James can turn up and Jay

1337
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:01,760
has to be alert all the time for
where he's going to go.

1338
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:05,760
Wow, that's cool.
Yeah, I think I watched it like

1339
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:09,720
right up here.
Yeah, it was it was pretty

1340
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,480
crazy.
I again, it was sub that I don't

1341
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:15,080
know that I've ever felt before
at A at a rock show.

1342
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:22,640
Well, for those keeping score at
home, it's a it's a six deep end

1343
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:26,720
fire array.
So it's two boxes high, 6 deep.

1344
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,920
So it's each one is delayed to
the next, to the next, to the

1345
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,720
next six.
And then it has the two VLF CS,

1346
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:37,280
3 high stacks of those, which
are the guys that go down to 13

1347
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:39,680
Hertz.
So it's so basically it's a

1348
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,040
cannon that's 8 levels deep.
Jesus.

1349
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,000
So it makes a very, very
controlled directionality and

1350
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:53,080
it's so quiet behind them that
we we have Subs, 16 Subs around

1351
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:56,520
the stage in order to get sound
close in.

1352
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,520
Otherwise otherwise it would be
completely there'd be no no low

1353
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:05,400
end up near the barrier.
Yeah, Huh.

1354
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:08,480
Interesting.
Oh, we're back there.

1355
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:10,680
OK, that's the Tokyo Disney Sea
again.

1356
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:12,640
Yeah, you can see one of those
towers.

1357
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,280
Sorry.
OK, so this next picture, this

1358
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:20,200
is in I'm, I'm in Helsinki.
I don't, I don't know what Turva

1359
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,400
Tolowa means, but I hope it
means welcome or something like

1360
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:28,480
that or nerd alert.
But this is this is a picture

1361
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:35,960
before one of my training
seminars and going back to 1984

1362
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:40,760
when we started doing SIM work,
we immediately started doing

1363
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:44,400
trainings and they really
started in earnest in 1987 when

1364
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:49,160
we released the first official
product of the of the analyzer.

1365
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:54,600
And because our feeling was
always, we need to, we, we, we

1366
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,960
don't want to take this
technology and sort of hold it

1367
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,800
in our chest.
We need to evangelize this.

1368
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:03,280
And, and, and, and it does two
things.

1369
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:07,280
One, we teach people and also
people teach us because the only

1370
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:12,200
way you're going to find out if
your ideas are solid is put them

1371
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,560
out there.
And sometimes I get brilliant

1372
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,200
students who, who would tell me,
you know, ask questions and be

1373
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:22,480
like, good question, let's find
out.

1374
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:29,640
And so I've been teaching and
learning this stuff since 1987.

1375
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,000
That's led to whole seminars all
around the world.

1376
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:37,160
I'm very grateful to all the all
the people that have come to my

1377
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:37,880
training.
That's.

1378
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:39,800
Cool.
Yeah, I mean, obviously training

1379
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,600
is hugely important when
technology's advancing this

1380
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:46,880
quickly.
Like sound, I mean sound, I

1381
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,080
don't know what moves faster,
sound or lighting it.

1382
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:52,880
I used to think that sound never
moved, but lighting was

1383
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,040
constantly evolving and evolving
and evolving.

1384
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:58,360
But I don't know, I think sounds
made pretty big leaps and

1385
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:02,240
bounds, jumps, you know, digital
consoles and all this Dante

1386
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,560
stuff.
Like I like I said earlier, I

1387
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,280
remember, you know, an analog
console with a rack of outboard

1388
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:13,040
stuff and you know, and point
source speakers like it was

1389
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:16,600
pretty straightforward and and
Anprax, you know, it was, it was

1390
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,920
all it was all pretty
straightforward stuff.

1391
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:24,840
You could troubleshoot a A
signal path because it went from

1392
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:25,800
A to B.
It didn't.

1393
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,800
It didn't go into a network and
then just become numbers.

1394
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,800
Holy God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

1395
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,040
Never thought of that problem,
but that's a big problem.

1396
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:36,720
Oh, I think we're at the end of
the pictures.

1397
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:41,240
No, we're not.
Oh, this is back to that rig.

1398
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,840
That's that guy in its test
form.

1399
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,080
We were just going, you know,
this was the early, earliest

1400
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:51,240
version of that.
Do you remember where this was?

1401
01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:57,280
This is in.
This is in the Royal Arena in

1402
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:00,000
Copenhagen.
Oh OK, start of the tour.

1403
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,640
Look at how young you were.
Exactly, folks.

1404
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:06,920
So let.
Me, read this Berkeley Square.

1405
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,040
This is that first sound system
that you put in.

1406
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:10,680
Yeah.
Huh.

1407
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:12,960
So this is 19.
Console.

1408
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:14,200
Wow.
A biant console?

1409
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:16,920
Yep.
So it's all analog and you can

1410
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:22,920
see the graphic EQ.
That's a white graphic EQ Yeah,

1411
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:24,480
it's the white is the brand
name.

1412
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:27,760
Black is the actual color, but
then something I think you'll

1413
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:32,120
find interesting is you can see
an oscilloscope above in the

1414
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:37,280
middle of that rack, and that
oscilloscope is connected up to

1415
01:26:37,480 --> 01:26:42,880
a switching system.
That brought back the output of

1416
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:47,120
every amplifier so that I could
see on that oscilloscope what

1417
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:52,560
every amplifier was doing.
That was something that we did

1418
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:55,240
at FM Productions and I
incorporated it here.

1419
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,320
And of course that technology is
now done.

1420
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,080
You know, it's, it's read back
on the network all the diagnosis

1421
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,240
and status for your temperature
and your waveforms and things.

1422
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:12,280
But that's how that's how I
monitored the system, just to

1423
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:13,760
make sure that it wasn't
overloaded.

1424
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:18,360
And you never had like, you
know, the desire or whatever to

1425
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:20,880
to be standing here and be in
the front of house guy.

1426
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,240
Oh, I did originally and I was
front of house at this at this

1427
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:32,640
level, but once I once I moved
into once I joined Meijer sound

1428
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:38,560
and became an aid to this, to
the to the systems and I what

1429
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,800
happened?
I'm it's a real simple little

1430
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:43,000
progression.
I'm at Meijer Sound.

1431
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,560
We start the SIM program, I
start to go out and I start to

1432
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:48,760
tune systems.
And now I'm jumping in and

1433
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:55,120
tuning really important systems.
I'm tuning Broadway musicals,

1434
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:58,400
West End musicals, I'm tuning
touring shows, I'm tuning

1435
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,800
Grateful Dead shows, all of this
kind of work.

1436
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:04,640
And I'm on these shows.
This is on a level and I have

1437
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:10,320
found a whole new specialty of
expertise and I'm not, I'm not

1438
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:12,720
turning back from that.
There is no going back.

1439
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:15,360
I walked through that door.
There was no going back.

1440
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:20,480
And then from there, what
happens is that by virtue of

1441
01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:24,400
tuning these systems, I learned
what works in this design and

1442
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,640
what doesn't.
So that's how I become a system

1443
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:31,520
designer.
I say I learned how the body

1444
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:34,520
works by being the coroner.
Yeah, that's.

1445
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:38,160
Funny.
So like Metallica for example.

1446
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,200
From what I understand, I think
they own their Meyer sound

1447
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:46,120
system and so how often are they
upgrading that?

1448
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:49,000
Like I know they probably
upgrade components along the

1449
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,760
way, but like if Meyer comes out
with the, you know, the next

1450
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,760
version, the next cat name after
this one, will they

1451
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:58,920
automatically go to that new
system or?

1452
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:02,800
They won't automatically, but
they will.

1453
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:07,400
They are have been very
conscious of when we develop new

1454
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:10,560
technology to move, they're
ready to move to the next level.

1455
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,840
And for example, I'll be going
out in April and joining them in

1456
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:18,520
Syracuse because we're we're
taking the speakers that cover

1457
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,760
that snake pit, that little
center area.

1458
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,800
And we are replacing those with
the new Model X-80, which has

1459
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:30,840
you know, 3-D2DB more power and
a better coverage pattern and

1460
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:34,240
lower distortion.
And so that's an innovation that

1461
01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:39,400
we'll add and we're and we're
upgrading the the the last of

1462
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:42,680
the suburbs from the old model.
To the new model and your your

1463
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,720
boxes.
I don't know they have the power

1464
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:46,760
in them or their integrated
power.

1465
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,920
All of all of our boxes are self
powered.

1466
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:52,720
OK, OK, cool.
Yeah, that's interesting.

1467
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:55,560
All right, next.
Let's see what we got.

1468
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:57,960
Oh, are we running out?
I think we ran out.

1469
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:59,240
Yeah, we're done.
That's it.

1470
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:00,600
That's all your pictures
finally.

1471
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,800
Yeah, those are great pictures,
man.

1472
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:04,720
Really, really good.
Yeah.

1473
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,800
What a story.
So you know, I was saying

1474
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:11,520
earlier that you know, you've
had like you've literally kind

1475
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,000
of been there since the
beginning of sound.

1476
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,560
Your inspiration was the worst
sound we've ever seen in a live

1477
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,360
situation Which?
Is you know.

1478
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:20,520
Arguably the biggest band in the
world.

1479
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:23,160
No, my inspiration was the
television show Ah.

1480
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:25,080
Yes.
Which was fine.

1481
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:30,160
Yeah, I meant yeah.
I meant an era where live sound

1482
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:35,360
it wasn't as bad as yeah.
And I saw many great band on

1483
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:39,160
terrible sound systems.
Yeah, Yeah, So did I, And I

1484
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:43,680
wasn't a sound guy, but I saw
the bands and I, I played in

1485
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:46,440
bands that had terrible sound
systems back then as well.

1486
01:30:46,440 --> 01:30:51,880
Like I, I remember we had my
very first band that played live

1487
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:55,240
shows for, you know, I don't
know, 2-3 hundred people, 400

1488
01:30:55,240 --> 01:31:00,960
people every, every weekend.
We had these sun speaker stacks.

1489
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:05,080
I think we had two per side of
the sun speaker stacks.

1490
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:07,600
No Subs or anything.
It was just these, I think they

1491
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:11,640
had probably like 410 inch
speakers and A and a horn or

1492
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,920
something in them and they were
terrible.

1493
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:16,240
They were just completely
terrible.

1494
01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:19,320
It was just a little louder than
us just yelling at the audience,

1495
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:24,840
you know, and but certainly, no,
there was no sound coming out of

1496
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:26,640
those.
Like they weren't mixing us at

1497
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:28,200
all.
It was just whatever was coming

1498
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:35,040
off stage a little bit louder.
And so you know, aside from the

1499
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:38,280
obvious going from analog to
digital consoles, going from

1500
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:41,840
stacked speakers to line arrays,
what are the other massive

1501
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:47,640
advancements in your tenure?
Oh, in my time.

1502
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:50,760
Yeah, in your time.
Oh my gosh, it's so many things.

1503
01:31:53,080 --> 01:32:01,120
It's it when I start the
manufacturers of loud speakers

1504
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:07,440
are still basically in They are
not mobile.

1505
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,560
They are, they've been making
speakers for the cinema and for

1506
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:19,360
permanent installation to, to do
a, a, a talking head or our, you

1507
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,320
know, ladies and gentlemen kind
of thing.

1508
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,480
A public address system A.
Public address system.

1509
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:30,600
And so and so when I come in,
I'm in the era where the the

1510
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:35,120
Turing systems are using the the
baskets and the cones and the

1511
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:42,600
drivers of JBL and Altech and
Electrovoice and these

1512
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,560
companies, but nobody is using
their boxes.

1513
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:50,480
Every.
All the companies, Clare

1514
01:32:50,480 --> 01:32:54,720
Brothers builds their S4 stuff
with that stuff.

1515
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:58,240
Marilyn Salm builds their
whatever.

1516
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,680
Everybody's everybody's makes a
thing.

1517
01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:07,880
OK, Show call was even was even
building their own monitor

1518
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,160
boards because nobody made a
monitor board.

1519
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:15,160
OK, it's hard to think about
these things, but the the

1520
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:19,400
industry was not ready for us.
So it was being, you can call it

1521
01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:21,640
a garage, but the garages were
the laboratories.

1522
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:26,200
That was the place where, where,
where the the most important

1523
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:32,120
work was being done.
And eventually you get into the,

1524
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:39,280
you know, into the 80s, and the
manufacturers wake up and get

1525
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:40,200
it.
Yeah.

1526
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:45,920
OK, And and you and it starts to
turn where I saw before that

1527
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,320
year, I call it.
This is the era where custom is

1528
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:50,160
king.
The last thing anybody wants to

1529
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:54,360
do is have you show up with a
JBL cabaret speaker that you

1530
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,480
bought at the music store.
They want you.

1531
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:58,280
They'd rather have your homemade
thing.

1532
01:33:58,440 --> 01:34:00,800
OK, Yeah.
Then the thing turns around

1533
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:04,480
where now nobody wants to hear
about your homemade speaker.

1534
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,880
Yeah, yeah.
No, thank you or your great

1535
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:11,920
theory of this.
It's like we've matured as an

1536
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:17,160
industry and speakers are now
and not only it's not the

1537
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,720
speaker and you choose this AM,
but you choose this crossover

1538
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:23,240
frequency.
It's like you just expect that

1539
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:27,440
this speaker is that speaker and
it's whether I'm in Australia or

1540
01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:31,400
Antarctica or Japan, that
speaker model is going to

1541
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:34,680
perform exactly the same.
Yeah, yeah.

1542
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,920
I mean, for me that evolution
was that lousy Sun speaker

1543
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:42,320
system that I told you about.
And then, you know, my next band

1544
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:47,680
we moved all the way up to like
JBLW bins with 45 Sixties and

1545
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:51,680
then Altech Horns.
That was like, whoa, this is

1546
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:54,840
incredible.
And then all of a sudden we

1547
01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:57,480
started seeing some of the bands
going around to these bigger

1548
01:34:57,480 --> 01:35:02,240
clubs and stuff and they had
these weird European things, the

1549
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:06,440
Phase plug design, Martin stuff.
Norton and Turbosound, yeah.

1550
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,760
Yeah.
And I never saw any Turbosound

1551
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,240
stuff.
This was in Canada, but Martin

1552
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:14,920
became quite prevalent and then
all the bands were using the the

1553
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:20,800
15 inch, you know, Martin Bin
and the phase plug mid and and

1554
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:25,280
that just really took off and
that kind of owned at least the

1555
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:29,000
club market in Canada, the club
touring market in Canada for for

1556
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,760
quite some time.
So yeah, that was sort of my

1557
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:36,920
evolution from the beginning.
But you're right, like every one

1558
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,960
of these guys that I talked to
who were there in the beginning,

1559
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:45,600
whether it's Community or Turbo
Sound or whoever JBL, you know,

1560
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:50,080
they went from building, you
know, homemade boxes in their

1561
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:53,520
garage to to, you know,
something much more mass

1562
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:55,160
produced.
And, and like you said, you

1563
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,720
could get it in any continent,
country, whatever.

1564
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:02,800
And they were all the same.
So I think as systems grew, that

1565
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:06,280
became quite important because,
you know, you needed to kind of

1566
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,200
get the same thing on the next
stop or the next stop because

1567
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,360
originally touring companies
didn't typically go across the

1568
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:14,840
entire US either.
Like they'd hand it off to the

1569
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:18,960
next regional company.
So, yeah, yeah.

1570
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:24,760
But the other big evolution to
me in terms of the the work is,

1571
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:30,600
is the specialization.
So when I, when I started, I, an

1572
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:36,160
audio engineer, knew everything
like you, you, you know, you

1573
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:40,160
know how to solder.
Yeah, you know, you ran cable.

1574
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,320
Pack a truck.
Exactly.

1575
01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:44,920
How to get it all back in?
But but you could, you would

1576
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:48,120
troubleshoot and then then you'd
mix.

1577
01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:55,240
But that what's happened now is
that we really have worked,

1578
01:36:55,480 --> 01:37:00,800
moved into a specialized world.
There are the people that are

1579
01:37:01,480 --> 01:37:04,680
that, that are get the systems
up and running.

1580
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,520
People that are gravity, I call
them the gravity people.

1581
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:09,280
People that get everything
flown.

1582
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:13,960
That's a whole giant skill level
to do that.

1583
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:16,000
Then there's the network
specialists.

1584
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,960
Then there's the.
Networking's another big change,

1585
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:20,720
I guess, yeah.
Massive.

1586
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:21,560
Change.
Yeah.

1587
01:37:21,560 --> 01:37:24,080
Like you said, you used to go
from here to here, and if

1588
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:26,560
something was wrong, it was one
of those connectors on either

1589
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,000
end of that cable, or somebody
pinched the middle of the cable

1590
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:30,880
but replaced the cable and
you're good.

1591
01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:33,120
Exactly.
Now just figuring out where the

1592
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:35,120
problem is is is a whole
different thing.

1593
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:38,320
Exactly.
I mean, Wiresh, Wireshark was

1594
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,600
not a a tool in my in my audio
computer.

1595
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:49,360
It is now and the then, then you
have people that are, you know,

1596
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:52,600
the system engineer now has to
keep track of not just keeping

1597
01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:57,400
the a system running, but the
world of outboard gear has blown

1598
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,160
up into all of these plugins
and.

1599
01:38:00,280 --> 01:38:03,880
Which I don't understand at all.
All, all all this stuff which

1600
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:09,320
can be just an unbelievable
rat's nest of of it's like the

1601
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:12,440
ultimate.
You can see people whose systems

1602
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:17,000
whose whose whole mix has become
the ultimate Rd. with the 5

1603
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:19,360
million potholes plugged in.
Right.

1604
01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:20,480
Yeah.
OK.

1605
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:23,440
It's like, I just wanted to peel
all that stuff out.

1606
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:26,640
Yeah, just like, Oh my God.
Yeah.

1607
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:31,400
But that's that's I'm not young.
That's not my thing.

1608
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:34,800
Nobody asked me to help on that.
But it's, it's, it's interesting

1609
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:39,960
because it's, it's just, you
know, you have, you have a, a

1610
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,240
lot of, there's a lot of
different fields of expertise

1611
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:47,600
and nobody can really become an
expert in all of them now.

1612
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:51,440
It's just too wide of a The
breath is too wide.

1613
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,000
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I guess if you're, if

1614
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:57,120
you're, you know, taking a small
system down to the to a

1615
01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:59,960
conference room or something for
a meeting or whatever, like

1616
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:02,760
that's one thing.
But when you're talking about

1617
01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:06,400
the average arena tour or, or
certainly stadium tour, yeah,

1618
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,000
you got you've got experts in
all sorts of like even just

1619
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:13,320
having basically a a front of
house engineer and then an

1620
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:16,080
assistant front of house house
engineer, like you just said

1621
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:17,440
with Metallica.
Yes.

1622
01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:21,080
And like I said, it blew my mind
when I saw their monitor world,

1623
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:23,720
you know, under the seats in the
in the stadium.

1624
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:25,800
I was like, what is going on
here?

1625
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:28,640
And he said, oh, that's monitors
and.

1626
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:31,000
Exactly.
I'd never seen anything like

1627
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:35,320
that and there were like 4 guys
I think in on the consoles

1628
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:39,280
sitting there in monitor world.
I was like, what so?

1629
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:43,040
Then there's people.
There's people whose entire line

1630
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:46,640
of work is radio frequencies.
Yeah.

1631
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:51,040
And you know, they're, they've
got to monitor their

1632
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:53,640
frequencies, they've got to get
them all cleared when you get to

1633
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:57,480
this city, make sure there's no
traffic on there, reassign if

1634
01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:00,280
they need it, then they've got
to monitor anything that

1635
01:40:00,280 --> 01:40:03,760
happens.
They're, I mean, that's a whole

1636
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:07,160
specialty in and of itself.
Yeah, yeah.

1637
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,720
People wonder how you end up
with, you know, 150 people on a

1638
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:12,440
tour or whatever.
Well, guess what?

1639
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:16,080
You know, that's how, Yeah.
So, yeah, I know.

1640
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:18,000
That's incredible.
That's incredible.

1641
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:22,320
So you you mentioned something
in your notes called Polarity

1642
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:23,640
Gate.
What's that?

1643
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:27,960
Oh, you had you had said
something about like formative,

1644
01:40:29,480 --> 01:40:32,480
you know, events or, yeah,
memorable things.

1645
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:36,640
Yeah.
And this is a this is a funny

1646
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:40,040
little story and it's way back
in 1984.

1647
01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:46,560
And it was, We are in the
earliest days of doing the

1648
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:48,880
Grateful Dead with this SIM
analyzer.

1649
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:53,560
So, so we're, we're really just
kind of proving to them that

1650
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:57,240
this is that this worked.
We had taken this technology to

1651
01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:01,600
to rush the Canadian band we
had.

1652
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:03,240
And they said, oh, that's really
cool.

1653
01:41:03,480 --> 01:41:07,720
It seems to work, but we don't
do experiments.

1654
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:12,080
So, you know, you can look at
our thing, but don't do

1655
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:13,480
anything.
OK, so we did.

1656
01:41:14,440 --> 01:41:17,000
And then on they go.
Frank Zappa.

1657
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:18,640
Same thing.
You'd think Frank Zappa would be

1658
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:19,800
all experimental.
Yeah.

1659
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:21,440
Nope.
Nope.

1660
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:23,480
Absolutely not.
Weird.

1661
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:28,040
Yeah, that was amazing to me.
And then I watched him rehearse

1662
01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:31,240
and the guy, I've never seen a
more disciplined band.

1663
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:36,240
What I'm hearing is sounds like
total complete chaos and then he

1664
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:40,640
stops bar 127.
You played an E flat that's

1665
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:42,440
supposed to be E natural.
Yeah.

1666
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:46,200
Probably amongst this things
are, yeah.

1667
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:51,680
That sounds like a typical Frank
Zappa song.

1668
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:53,280
Exactly.
Yeah.

1669
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:56,120
So, so Grateful Dead, when we
brought it to them and said, you

1670
01:41:56,120 --> 01:41:59,240
know, well, you know, we've been
turned out twice, but we have

1671
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:02,200
this experimental thing.
We think it's going to be really

1672
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:03,880
important.
We can analyze the system with

1673
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:08,600
music as the source, and it's
really exciting, but that's

1674
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:11,680
where we get they're like, hmm,
experiment right there on the

1675
01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:13,920
front of house on the console
while the show is going on.

1676
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:17,520
Yeah, bring it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1677
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:25,360
So on we go and we're doing our
second or third show and I get

1678
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:30,000
asked John Myers there, Don
Pearson, the head of ultrasound,

1679
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:34,880
who's a really important person
who who left us too, too early,

1680
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:36,960
and Dan Healy, the mixer,
they're all there.

1681
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:42,240
And they commissioned me to to
to try out to measure the thing

1682
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:47,280
and during the song, after this
song finishes, swap the polarity

1683
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:49,600
of the subwoofers and see what
happens.

1684
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:59,920
And I swap it and I watch and I
see a hole at 100 Hertz comes

1685
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:03,400
and reverse and just fill in
perfectly.

1686
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,760
Huh.
So.

1687
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:11,280
And I say boom, play the
reversal now.

1688
01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:14,280
Now the Subs are no longer
fighting the mains because they

1689
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:18,560
both working at 100 Hertz and
they were fighting because they

1690
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:22,400
were 180° apart.
Yeah.

1691
01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:31,320
And I go, yes, and I get this,
this look and everybody looks at

1692
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:35,680
everybody.
And Dan Healy, the mix was like,

1693
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:45,640
and Pearson's like and John
Meyer's like, yeah, so, So what

1694
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:53,600
I found out was I got put into a
years long argument between Dan

1695
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:58,440
Healy and Don Pearson about
whether the Subs should be

1696
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:02,560
played reversed or not, which is
which is better.

1697
01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:06,960
And I solved it and I proved the
client.

1698
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:09,800
Wrong.
Oh, Ouch.

1699
01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:12,320
How?
How'd that go?

1700
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:17,200
How'd that end up?
It all it all ended up fine at

1701
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:22,160
the AN because of course it was,
you know, I I'm just calling I'm

1702
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,360
just the umpire here.
I'm just I'm I don't have a dog

1703
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:28,400
in this fight that that is
adding.

1704
01:44:28,480 --> 01:44:31,360
The other way is subtracting.
Yeah, OK.

1705
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:34,120
Did you have to buy somebody a
steak later or something?

1706
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:37,560
No, I, I just, I just got, I
just got told, you know, I was

1707
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:42,040
like, it's like you just don't
celebrate, you know, but I

1708
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:44,800
didn't know that there was
emotions involved at this.

1709
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:48,560
I celebrate because like, holy
crap, it works, you know.

1710
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:50,480
Well, you did it and it solved
it.

1711
01:44:50,480 --> 01:44:53,240
How cool is that?
Yeah, yeah.

1712
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,040
So that's a tough one.
That's a tough one because what

1713
01:44:57,040 --> 01:44:59,480
are you supposed to do?
Lie and say no, no, there was no

1714
01:44:59,480 --> 01:45:00,760
problem, right?
You know?

1715
01:45:01,440 --> 01:45:03,280
They.
Just to stroke somebody's ego.

1716
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:08,200
They well, the, the lesson
learned was is be mindful when,

1717
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:11,440
when someone you know every,
when you're, when you're making

1718
01:45:11,440 --> 01:45:16,840
a proof of something, be mindful
that you might be stepping into

1719
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:19,400
somebody's ego.
Doesn't mean change doesn't mean

1720
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:26,080
change The you don't modify the
reality, but but take it, make

1721
01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:28,920
it carefully.
And I learned, you know, from

1722
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:31,440
then on, it's like when I when I
can, when I would walk into a

1723
01:45:31,440 --> 01:45:37,520
place and I'd go like, OK, this
design is totally wrong.

1724
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:40,040
We're going to have to the PA.
It's got to come down.

1725
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:42,960
We've got to rehang this Papa.
It's like, and I know it's going

1726
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,920
to be, it's going to make the
consultant look like an idiot or

1727
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:50,400
the designer look like bad.
So you have to really do this

1728
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:52,480
carefully.
So what I have to do is like, I

1729
01:45:52,480 --> 01:45:57,400
don't just say bring it down.
I said, OK, so I, I stage up and

1730
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:01,560
get it and I place the mic in a
way that shows the problem and I

1731
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,800
bring them over and say, wow,
I'm observing this and it looks

1732
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:08,720
like this over on the, you know,
on the on in the center and now

1733
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:13,360
over on this seat over to the
side, it's 10 DB down.

1734
01:46:13,680 --> 01:46:16,000
I think that we need to angle it
out.

1735
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:20,600
I would try, I think it's 10 DB
down and you know, then I'll

1736
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:23,480
look up there and of course, and
I'll say so, so I don't know.

1737
01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:24,920
What do you, what do you think
we should do?

1738
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,160
I let them say, oh, that's the
smart way to do it.

1739
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:31,320
And they say, wow, I'm not sure
what do you think?

1740
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,080
Wow, brilliant.
I think we need to bring it

1741
01:46:33,080 --> 01:46:34,720
down.
We're going to have to open up

1742
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:37,880
the slay angle between those.
Give him the answer, but let

1743
01:46:37,880 --> 01:46:39,440
him.
Let him deliver it.

1744
01:46:39,440 --> 01:46:41,520
You know what I mean?
Exactly, Yeah.

1745
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:44,000
That's.
Keep everybody you.

1746
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:46,080
Must have been married for a
while because that's the same

1747
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:49,720
technique.
Yes dear, does this need?

1748
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:53,680
Salt, you know, does this meal,
does this meal need salt?

1749
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:56,960
Does this pair, does this dress
make my butt look big?

1750
01:46:57,360 --> 01:46:58,160
You know?
Yeah.

1751
01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:02,640
These are all very, very touchy
answers that you need to give.

1752
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:04,760
You have to be very careful.
Yeah.

1753
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:13,920
No, that's brilliant.
So you mentioned a charity that

1754
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:17,920
you're you support pretty
heavily, which I believe is the

1755
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:21,240
Southern Poverty Poverty Law
Center.

1756
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:25,040
Southern Poverty Law Center,
Easy for me to say.

1757
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:28,680
So what's the story there?
Do you have a some sort of a

1758
01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:31,480
connection to that or is it just
something meaningful for some?

1759
01:47:31,480 --> 01:47:38,480
Reason I've been a supporter of
their work for 25, maybe 30

1760
01:47:38,480 --> 01:47:43,120
years.
Morris Dees was the founder.

1761
01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:49,320
It's based out of Montgomery, AL
And it was what they, what they

1762
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:54,120
started with was was
representing people in,

1763
01:47:54,480 --> 01:47:59,040
especially in racial prejudice
cases, giving them

1764
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:00,640
representation and what they
were.

1765
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:04,760
Their real breakthrough was
figuring out that they could go

1766
01:48:04,760 --> 01:48:09,280
after the Ku Klux Klan after
horrible things that they would

1767
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:15,440
do and sue them, get them
involved in litigation.

1768
01:48:16,360 --> 01:48:20,560
And they broke the Klan in
numerous cases, forcing them to

1769
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:24,520
sell the all their assets to the
people that they had who burned

1770
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:26,400
crosses on their lawns in these
years.

1771
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,320
They couldn't, they couldn't put
people in jail.

1772
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,480
They couldn't convict them on
that level, but they could show

1773
01:48:31,480 --> 01:48:37,880
a level of, of criminal
conspiracy that was, that was

1774
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:42,240
civilly liable and that the
organization was a criminal

1775
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:44,280
organization.
I mean, it, you know, was a, you

1776
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:50,400
know, injurious entity.
So that they basically were able

1777
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:53,760
to bleed these things out and
take their assets.

1778
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:57,000
And and so they've been, they've
done tremendous work.

1779
01:48:57,200 --> 01:48:59,640
And you'll if you know that
names, look for them.

1780
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:04,200
Anytime you see a big racial
case break, you're going to see

1781
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:06,800
something.
They're.

1782
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:09,360
Interesting at the microphone
they're involved.

1783
01:49:09,440 --> 01:49:12,760
Yeah, that's interesting.
You know, there's a guy that's

1784
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:16,040
always on Joe Rogan, who I've
heard a couple of times on Joe

1785
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:21,720
Rogan, who works very hard on
like wrongful prosecution cases

1786
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:23,520
and stuff.
And quite often, quite often

1787
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:28,040
racially, you know, inspired or
driven or whatever you want to

1788
01:49:28,040 --> 01:49:30,440
call it.
You know, hey, you're a brown

1789
01:49:30,440 --> 01:49:32,560
guy.
You must have committed this

1790
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:34,600
murder because you were in the
same county.

1791
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:41,040
And, and he goes and gets them
off and some of them are on, you

1792
01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:44,840
know, death row and, and some of
them are serving life sentences

1793
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:46,160
and stuff.
And he gets them off.

1794
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,160
And it's, it's a really
interesting story because it's

1795
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,200
disgusting to think that that
actually goes on, that people

1796
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:56,440
are just, you know, thrown in
jail because of their skin color

1797
01:49:56,440 --> 01:50:01,760
or because of their, you know,
financial standing or whatever

1798
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:03,720
it is like it's, it's
disgusting.

1799
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:06,160
It really is disgusting.
And, you know, maybe that's the

1800
01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:08,440
Canadian in me.
You know, I got a little, a

1801
01:50:08,440 --> 01:50:12,640
little bit of liberal Canadian
in me and, and I don't love that

1802
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:15,440
concept.
So that's a that's a really cool

1803
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:19,520
charity to support, you know, I
think it's meaningful.

1804
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:21,200
So what do you got going on this
year?

1805
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:24,360
What's What's big in 25 for Mr.
Bob?

1806
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:29,280
I will.
We're supporting Metallica's new

1807
01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:32,440
those changes and they're, they
could have some shows in

1808
01:50:32,440 --> 01:50:36,560
Australia that would do an end
stage, not the full tower stage.

1809
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:41,160
OK.
And so that's a new design for

1810
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:43,600
that.
Then I have the Rascilda

1811
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:47,640
Festival, which is a large
festival in Denmark.

1812
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:51,200
It's in it's 54th year.
Yeah, I do a.

1813
01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:52,720
Full festival.
Yeah.

1814
01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:55,880
So we we're involved in all the
stages for that.

1815
01:50:55,880 --> 01:51:00,920
So there's seven stages that
need to be designed and seven

1816
01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:03,640
days of music.
It's it's it's our big team we

1817
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:05,400
send over there to take care of
that.

1818
01:51:05,720 --> 01:51:08,920
It's super good.
And then I'll probably do

1819
01:51:08,920 --> 01:51:14,040
Outside Lands again and I've got
some, I've got some we're we're

1820
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:18,120
breaking, breaking the ice in in
the world of NHL.

1821
01:51:18,120 --> 01:51:22,760
We've got three NHL arenas that
we did in the last two years and

1822
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:23,600
we're.
We're.

1823
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:30,080
Stranded we did.
First was Excel Arena in

1824
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:36,160
Minnesota, then Amelie in Tampa
Bay, and then the latest was

1825
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:40,680
Rogers Center in Toronto, OH.
OK, Yeah, it's amazing.

1826
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:43,720
That's, it's so funny because I
just went to a game on Saturday

1827
01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:47,400
with my friend in, I'm down in
South Florida, so the Florida

1828
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:52,240
Panthers and I was listening to
the system before the game

1829
01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:53,880
started.
They were playing some music and

1830
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:57,440
things were going on and I was
like, I can't believe how much

1831
01:51:57,440 --> 01:52:00,640
better sound is in arenas now
than it used to be because I've

1832
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:03,520
provided lots of lighting
systems and I've gone to, I'm a

1833
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:07,440
Canadian, so I'm a huge hockey
fan and so I've been to lots of

1834
01:52:07,440 --> 01:52:11,240
hockey games, but they used to
just blast music through public

1835
01:52:11,240 --> 01:52:12,440
address systems.
Exactly.

1836
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:15,520
Yeah.
Oh, it was just so bad.

1837
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:19,040
And now they've got like loads
of Subs and it just great

1838
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:20,880
sounding systems in some of
these arenas.

1839
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:25,560
Certainly not as good as those
3, but but yeah.

1840
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,880
So that's that's a new market
for you guys then, right?

1841
01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:32,680
Or an emerging market?
Let's say that, yeah, it's been,

1842
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:36,280
we've, we've had things there,
but we had a really nice winning

1843
01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:40,120
streak here with the Panther and
it's really made an impact.

1844
01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:42,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's cool.

1845
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:44,040
That's very cool.
What else?

1846
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:45,640
That's it.
That's your whole year.

1847
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:47,200
I heard you're getting a new
guitar.

1848
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,480
I am getting a new guitar.
Yeah.

1849
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:50,480
What's that?
Yeah.

1850
01:52:52,080 --> 01:52:55,800
It is.
It is a replica of Jerry

1851
01:52:55,800 --> 01:53:01,320
Garcia's Tiger guitar by Scarlet
Fires Guitar.

1852
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,960
OK, don't know anything about
that.

1853
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:08,200
I was never a dead fan so.
Yeah, well.

1854
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:13,400
So who makes it?
Scarlet Fire.

1855
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:16,400
OK.
And they're, they're in Northern

1856
01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:18,640
California or something.
They're they're in Dallas.

1857
01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:23,920
OK.
But the Leo Elliott, the guitar

1858
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:28,680
maker was was worked with the
full recipe.

1859
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:32,400
It's a it's a really super high
end custom guitar.

1860
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:38,200
It's it's, it's crazy.
It's got it's, it's a beautiful

1861
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:42,760
piece of work, but it's also
highly evolved electronics.

1862
01:53:44,280 --> 01:53:47,240
I'm looking at it right now.
That is a beautiful guitar.

1863
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:51,320
Yeah.
Wow, does it have that that

1864
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:54,760
whatever it is, what is it?
A tiger or something, Some kind

1865
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:56,320
of animal on it?
Yeah.

1866
01:53:57,120 --> 01:54:00,120
That's wild.
The tiger was just put on

1867
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:02,840
yesterday.
I'm he's sending me I'm getting

1868
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:05,640
daily updates.
He's finally I've I ordered this

1869
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:11,000
thing in February of last year.
Wow, yeah, I'm looking at it

1870
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:11,400
right now.
It's.

1871
01:54:11,440 --> 01:54:14,720
Becoming real now.
Yeah, that is cool.

1872
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:17,360
Well, congratulations on that.
That's probably pretty exciting.

1873
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:21,040
So you still play then?
I do thanks to the pandemic.

1874
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:26,480
I have a band that's fine.
How is that?

1875
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:30,480
Because I never I, I, I've
always played, but I, I can only

1876
01:54:30,480 --> 01:54:33,560
ever play with pickups, you
know, like a little like a

1877
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:37,840
little informal pickup jam
session because I can never, I

1878
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:40,880
can never be counted on to show
up because I'm always out.

1879
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:46,560
But the pandemic grounded me and
I got together with a group of

1880
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:51,720
people and we we play all, all
around the most terrible clubs

1881
01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:54,240
in in in Manhattan and it's
quite fun.

1882
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:57,080
But we did play the bitter end,
which was quite beautiful.

1883
01:54:57,080 --> 01:54:59,840
Yes, that's that's my.
Guitar.

1884
01:54:59,960 --> 01:55:03,920
Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting.
What kind of wit is that?

1885
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:09,160
That's called Coco bolo.
It's an exotic.

1886
01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:17,680
I believe it's a Amazon.
It's a beautiful grains to it.

1887
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:26,480
How close of a replica is it?
It's it's as close as they can

1888
01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:28,480
make it.
I mean if I if you saw the real

1889
01:55:28,480 --> 01:55:31,120
1 you would you would not be
able to really tell.

1890
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:32,040
Really.
Huh.

1891
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:40,960
Yeah, I have AI have a Eric
Clapton Blackie replica and you

1892
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:44,720
know, not the same as as this,
not quite as crazy and

1893
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:46,920
spectacular and wonderful as
this one.

1894
01:55:47,240 --> 01:55:51,800
A little bit different, but but
it's just a really cool Strat.

1895
01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:54,640
Like the story was basically
that Blackie, I don't know if

1896
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:57,160
you're familiar with Blackie,
that Eric Clapton recorded all

1897
01:55:57,160 --> 01:56:00,480
of all of his hits, cocaine and
all the big songs he recorded on

1898
01:56:00,480 --> 01:56:04,440
Blackie.
And they sold it in an auction

1899
01:56:04,760 --> 01:56:11,120
in like 2005, I think, or 4 for
$1,000,000 to Guitar Center.

1900
01:56:12,040 --> 01:56:16,000
And Guitar Center went to Fender
and said we want you to make the

1901
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:20,040
best reissue you've ever made.
Like we want identical reissue.

1902
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:23,960
Like we want this guitar.
You can't a, a scientist

1903
01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:25,920
couldn't tell the difference
between the real one and the

1904
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:29,400
replica.
And they made 230 of them, I

1905
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:32,720
think.
And I have one of those and I've

1906
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:36,960
I've never actually played it
because I'm afraid to basically.

1907
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:38,840
You.
You must be from Spinal Tap

1908
01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:41,120
then.
Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

1909
01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:44,120
No, don't even look at it.
Look at it.

1910
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:46,360
Yeah, no, it's kind of like
that.

1911
01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:50,120
And I had a friend of mine from
Calgary, guitar player his whole

1912
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:51,680
life.
He's, he's still playing

1913
01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:55,560
professionally today and he was
visiting his brother very close

1914
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:59,120
to my house and we got together
and, and he said bring, bring

1915
01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:00,760
the blackie guitar over with
you.

1916
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:03,240
And I brought it and he kept it
for the whole week and was just

1917
01:57:03,240 --> 01:57:06,880
playing on it and cleaning it up
and really making it pretty and

1918
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:09,160
all kinds of stuff.
And he was like, man, I like

1919
01:57:09,160 --> 01:57:11,640
that guitar.
And I'm like, hey, you know, it

1920
01:57:11,640 --> 01:57:14,040
could be arranged and it wasn't
cheap.

1921
01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:17,760
Yeah, it wasn't cheap.
I actually bought it.

1922
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:21,640
I bought 2 of them because I had
a good friend at Guitar Center

1923
01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:24,200
at the time and they were all
sold but he was like hey if you

1924
01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:26,920
want I can get you in there but
you got to tell me now.

1925
01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:29,960
And I said OK I'll take two and
he goes 2 I can only get you one

1926
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:33,280
And I said I need 2.
And so my whole plan was I'll

1927
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:35,520
flip one right away, which I
did.

1928
01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:40,280
I so they were $20,000 each and
I flipped the first one for

1929
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:45,520
30,000 almost instantly.
And and then 2008 happened and

1930
01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:49,800
the whole like expensive guitar
thing just crashed to the ground

1931
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:52,480
quickly.
And so I still have it.

1932
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:54,760
I haven't been in a rush to sell
it or anything.

1933
01:57:54,760 --> 01:57:58,600
So it's just cool to have, you
know, it's something cool to

1934
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:01,360
have, I guess.
Although every time I want to

1935
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:04,640
buy something else, I go, I
should just sell the blackie and

1936
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:09,680
buy that instead or whatever.
But yeah, well, I'll tell you

1937
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:11,760
what, Bob, that was freaking
interesting as hell.

1938
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:16,000
I I got an education in in lots
and lots of things related to

1939
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:17,920
sound and you have quite a
story.

1940
01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:20,840
I had no idea.
It's fantastic.

1941
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:23,160
Really, really cool.
So I appreciate you doing this.

1942
01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:25,520
Well, thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure.

1943
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,240
One last question, how can
people like, if people want to

1944
01:58:28,240 --> 01:58:31,080
buy your book or reach out to
you somehow, what's the best way

1945
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:34,160
to reach you?
Well, the book is.

1946
01:58:35,120 --> 01:58:36,880
It's published by Taylor and
Francis.

1947
01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:40,320
You can buy it directly from
them or it's up there on

1948
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:43,440
Amazon.com.
And it's called what?

1949
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,040
Sound systems design and
optimization.

1950
01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:49,120
OK, perfect.
Yeah.

1951
01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:53,680
And then to reach you just
LinkedIn or something?

1952
01:58:55,360 --> 01:58:58,640
LinkedIn.
I I, yeah, yeah, I guess.

1953
01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:01,400
I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm listed as Shipbuilder in

1954
01:59:01,400 --> 01:59:03,400
LinkedIn.
Shipbuilder.

1955
01:59:04,440 --> 01:59:07,600
That's not my, my name is Bob
McCarthy, but yeah, what my

1956
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:10,680
profession is.
And I I, I, you know, if you

1957
01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:13,400
look deep enough, you'll find
that my profession is

1958
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,800
shipbuilding.
What's that story?

1959
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:19,360
Now you got to tell me just
because it's like there was

1960
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:22,920
nothing that there was no
category that was, that was

1961
01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:24,640
correct.
So I was like Pine then

1962
01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:25,960
shipbuilding.
That's.

1963
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:31,800
Hilarious, and so far one person
has noticed in all the years.

1964
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:35,280
It doesn't surprise me, you
know, having spent the last

1965
01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:37,960
almost two hours talking with
you, it doesn't surprise me that

1966
01:59:37,960 --> 01:59:40,200
you're called shipbuilder.
Cool.

1967
01:59:40,360 --> 01:59:44,280
Well, I appreciate you man.
And, and maybe I'll run into you

1968
01:59:44,280 --> 01:59:46,200
on one of these Metallica shows
or something.

1969
01:59:46,200 --> 01:59:50,000
I, I, I really like Dan Brown
and, and Rob as well.

1970
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:51,400
So it's nice to go out and see
them.

1971
01:59:52,120 --> 01:59:54,240
Cool.
Well, have an amazing rest of

1972
01:59:54,240 --> 01:59:55,600
your week.
OK.

1973
01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:57,080
Thanks a million.
Thank you.

1974
02:00:02,960 --> 02:00:03,080
None.