#299 - Hailey and Ella Featherstone - LEADING LADIES PODCAST

0:00 Hello and welcome to leading ladies with me, Sarah Burnie. Now I've just finished recording a fantastic episode with the Featherstone Ladies. Hayley Featherstone is an award-winning lighting designer and director and Ella Featherstone is a freelance associate producer and production coordinator. Our conversation was brilliant. This episode is brought to you by Light Switch, so if you'd like to watch their video with me, that would be brilliant. And then, of course, stay tuned for the podcast with the Featherstone Girls. Light Switch is a collective of award-winning lighting, media and visual designers committed to changing how people experience the world.

0:47 For more than 30 years we have been practicing pragmatic design. At Light Switch. We believe it's our responsibility to keep our clients creative, logistical and financial objectives in balance. Light Switches range of expertise is extensive. From working one-on-one with clients and artists to multidisciplinary teams collaborate on all visual aspects of temporary and permanent projects, Light Switch creates unforgettable moments and powerful experiences. We celebrate our team, clients, and all of our industry's diverse and talented people. As a part of our commitment to inclusion in all aspects of entertainment and experience design, Light Switch is proud to sponsor leading ladies.

1:38 Now here's the leading ladies by Geezers of Gear on tour. Maybe she got some stories to share. Now here's the leading ladies by the Geezers of Gear Rock star ladies with some stories to share because La La La La la ladies. Hello ladies, Hello.

2:19 Hey, hello Ella, how are you? And welcome to leading ladies podcast. Hello, thank you for having us. A pleasure. Now, I know this has been well, we've been chatting back and forth probably well, for literally since last year. Yeah. This is the first time, both of you, you're in Chicago now, home for one week. Yeah. Yep, just about. That's amazing. And you just and you, you was like, Yep, I'm going to come on because it must be mourning for you now. It mustn't. It's about. Yeah, it's about 9:30. Yeah, it's about. And so 930 you've got up just to come on here. Thanks guys. Of course.

2:59 My pleasure. So really what I just really I need to know all about you. I know you've sent a few sort of notes over, but we're just going to have a nice chit chat and yeah, so please decide who wants to go first. But you know, what do you guys do? Let's start with that. What Haley, what do you do in the industry and. Yeah. So I'm AI like to refer to myself as a lighting professional. I do program design, operating pretty much kind of whatever sort of niche needs to be filled right now. I work with light switch design and creative firm and I do everything from taking tours out as an LD to designing outdoor immersive, what we love lovingly refer to as garden shows and you know, going out and design programming or programming corporate shows and large scale one offs either for myself or you know, as part of the part of the light switch collective. That's incredible.

4:13 And Ella, what, what's your role within our industry? My answer is much less practice than Haley is at this point, but I am an I'm on the other side of the industry. I do production coordination associate producing for a lot of really incredible companies that I feel honored to work for. I intertwine a lot with with the Light Switch Collective 2. I provide them production support on shows in which they need a little bit of background oomph that they don't necessarily always get from all of the creatives on their side. Yeah, that's basically what I do. I run the production realm and Haley does the creative side.

4:55 That's incredible. And so for those people listening that aren't familiar, like really you've been in this industry since, well, since you were born because you're I'm going to mention you're amazing father now, John Featherstone from Lightswitch. He is basically your dad. And for the ladies, you can tune into geysers of gear and listen to many episodes that we've had here mom. So what was it like really starting as as children going into? You know, it's always funny because a lot of people say that their first job was at a coffee shop or babysitting or something similar to that.

5:37 Well, my first job was running cable does under stages for iTunes gift cards. I say that very fondly, but. Yeah, nothing. Nothing like being bribed with an iTunes gift card. Thousands. That was the the. Highest currency I could get as an 11 year old. Yeah, Oh my goodness. So, you know, which would your dad like would obviously like take you on tour, not take you on tours, but you would sort of go be be part of that, you know, is your mom in the industry? I don't know this, I'm sorry. She kind of tangentially was, she worked as a travel agent. She worked up staging, was one of her big clients for a long time. So she booked a lot of a lot of travel for tours and like people going on the road and stuff. So she she sort of was, she sold off her travel business when Ella and I started really get a little bit older and getting into school.

6:29 But yeah, she so there there was a lot of overlap when her and when her and my dad got together. OK And so growing up in America that I, you know, Chicago, Chicago-based the whole whole time or if you moved around because of the work that your parents. Well, we never we never moved because of the work. The office was always in the basement of our childhood home. We had some incredible guys working down there our whole time growing up and they used to temporarily babysit us when our mom needed to run to the grocery store or I remember longingly climbing all over a massage chair that they had in their little relaxation nook of the office downstairs.

7:11 So we have always referred to light switch is another member of our family in the most endearing term possible because genuinely the people who helped foundationally raise up light switch also helped foundationally raise up us as well. That's the yeah, that's that's really cool. So light switch is your family, you know. For sure. You know, that that's just part, part part of it now. I did actually. I had a lovely lady on and that, you know, her name's completely gone now, but she also was basically brought up from, you know, a child into the industry. And sorry that her name's going to come to me now and I've just lit you up. It's just but her, her mum actually didn't want her to go into the industry.

7:57 So it was the complete role reversal and guided her into a different, you know, different, yeah, different industry, a different like education, different everything. Yeah. Mum and Dad encourage you to go into this. Or did you find yourself that you naturally fell into it? You know, I don't think that there was ever really any push to go into this, but I think that because kind of like what Ella was saying, you know, the, the company and the, the industry really as a whole has always sort of been just a, an inherent part of our lives. We always gravitated towards that kind of work and creative outlet anyway. You know, Ella and I were both really involved in, in, in theater and, and the arts in going into school. You know, I was slightly more on the technical side. Ella was slightly more on the stage side at the time, which is, which is funny, but we always gravitated towards that sort of being our outlet.

9:02 And I never, I don't know about you, Elle, but I never really felt a push from them to go either way. I think if anything, John was sort of like a little hesitant to was just one way or another in general. They both gave us a ton of freedom to sort of get there naturally. Which is the best, let's say, best parenting you can have given that opportunity to really flow into what you naturally are good at and what you're also passionate about? I mean, I actually, I, I also like LII was the stage side. So I performing arts, that was me growing up, you know, little Bony on the dance stage, jazz bands, tap mod and all the rest of it.

9:48 And I, I went to, when I went to, let's say, the professional performing arts and I realized I, I was good in my town, but I wasn't good in the really big town, you know, like, like London basically. And I was like, I'm not the best anymore. And then I just realised that I, that was not, excuse me, that was just not going to be, I was never going to be like one of the best of this and that. So I kind of backed out and went behind the scenes. And I love the behind the scenes, you know, and OK, I'm, I'm not as creative as, as yourself, Haley. And like now Ella, we've like being a really being a mum, you know, I would love to have really ventured into this, that kind of side of things. The creativity of, you know, lighting is just incredible for me.

10:41 So, you know, where did you find? Because obviously, OK, light switch and you know, in the basement, you know that obviously that that was like guiding you somewhere, but you could have gone into video, you could have gone into other areas of, of touring. What made you go that way? I don't know if going into any other technical aspect would have really been a choice in our family. I think the options were lighting or finding a different part of the industry to join Lake Production. I I, unlike Haley, didn't go to college for lighting design or production design.

11:24 I went to college to become an elementary school teacher, which still very applicable skills to this. Definitely a lot of things I still learn, but I tried to rebel quote UN quote becoming an elementary school teacher. Again, nothing like nothing like rebelling by trying to become a teacher. Again, that's like the. Family industry for a little bit when I first decided to go to college. But about 3/4 of the way through my college experience, I discovered that what I really did love was the community that came alongside the industry that we're all so lucky to be in. And how much that community fosters creativity, fosters familiar relationships, fosters friendships, fosters growth and leadership and development in a way that I didn't see and any other sphere that I was looking at joining at the time. And I saw how happy it made my dad, how happy it was making my sister, the incredible experiences they both had to have, and also how much love and joy came alongside that. And that's why I decided to go into it for both of us, not not going in it, we would never go into audio. Let's firstly start by that.

12:41 That would be the dark side in our family. I wasn't going to say it, but. It was, it was always lighting or finding some something as close to lighting as possible so that we could all stay a collective in a unit. Because we really are more powerful together, all of us. We really can sit at dinner and elaborate on one another's creative ideas and support each other in other aspects that some of us aren't familiar with. Haley's husband Steve is elite electrician too, and some of the ideas that he comes up with, Haley and John are able to really expand on creatively.

13:22 And then I'm able to put a realistic twist on it. So the fact that all of us are able to collaborate together is such a gift of being in this industry together. And I just don't know if being an audio tech or a video tech would have been in either of our abilities or skill sets. Really. More skill sets. No shade on audio and video, just yeah, I know there's always been, there's always been the playful banter between the lighting and the audio folks, so of course. Playful banter. Yeah. I think many an audio team we love. Haley's best friend's about to marry an audio guy and we still love her so. Yeah.

14:03 And him. Yeah, I think that I think that we, we were really lucky to grow up in a household where, you know, our dad always really fostered a sense of like playfulness and creativity. We were always encouraged to play. We were always encouraged to do projects. We from a very young age, he like, he involved us in like doing all this stuff around the house. So we've never really strayed away from like tools and like learning how to build stuff and being able to like have have a project come at you and be afraid of how you're gonna tackle it.

14:46 So I think that we were super lucky with that. A lot of like the creativity and the gusto to kind of just take on whatever comes at you really came from, from him and from that. And then my mom has always been such a steadfast, but a patron of communication in our family. And I think that because she has always pushed communication as such a pillar of, of all of our relationships and both as a family and both and like how we work professionally or with friends or whatever. Those two things have really like come together nicely to give us a sense of we can kind of, we can kind of do what is thrown at us.

15:33 You know, and I think that that's such a, a core principle of being successful in this industry. If you look at something and you're like, I don't think I can do that, you're going to limit yourself and a lot of the times you're going to let down your team. You know, this is this is an industry of I don't know how to do that, but I am going to figure it out, you know. And The thing is, it sounds like, I mean want to be sat around your dinner table. That would be an incredible dinner and conversation. And you know. We're very good at cooking as well, so. Oh my goodness, even better, right? I'm coming. I'm next flight. But for me, it's more the fact that you've really had and you know, everyone has maybe their ups and downs, but the core foundation of your family is about communication.

16:23 It's about that. And I know your dad's a very big believer in the giving back. And I'm going to say like love, you know, love and charity, what you can do. And really, I don't know, just just giving back to what your talents are and, you know, really focusing on your your creativity side of things and you're just overall personality to make you great people. You know that's. And I think what we've always learned from everyone in this industry and everyone who has become our belated uncles and belated aunts in these in this industry is that the spread of information is the greatest gift that we can give anyone around us. And the knowledge that we have learned from the struggles that we've had in the industry.

17:13 Being able to give someone the information we learned from that so that they don't have to make the same mistakes again and said they can make other mistakes and still learn from those, but we can continue to learn and grow is one of my favorite parts of this industry. I I never feel like if there's anyone on site who I can't go up to and ask a question and they will give me a genuine answer to it. It's just having the gusto to go up and ask them the question that I'm a little afraid to ask them. And that takes, that takes courage to do that. I mean, I'm a big believer in asking and, you know, also telling me how do you want it done? You know, because I, you know, if I join a team in whatever way I join it, you know, how do you want that done? You know, I know how I would do it, but how do you want it done?

17:54 You know, obviously if I was in charge, I would say, you know, go, go in another direction. But it's also for me owning up to mistakes. You know I'm the first. Totally. First one to put my hand up. Yeah, I screwed up, you know, because I think you people. Respect you. People respect you more for owning up for it than they do if they find out it was you and you didn't tell them upfront anyway. Yeah, absolutely. Blame. Yeah, so it it always. God, sorry. Sorry, I was just going to say it always. It always shocks me how much how how much people are afraid to say sorry and how it does it.

18:36 How saying sorry or owning up to your mistakes does nothing but push you forward. I think everybody is so afraid of messing up and of doing something wrong that we don't embrace like the growth that comes from messing up. Imagine if you never messed up. That'd be so boring. One, it would be incredibly annoying to be around you. And two and two, you, you never progress. You know, You're like stuck in this little bubble of being able to do really the same things really well over and over and over again, you know? Yeah, and it's a way of, like you say, it's a way of growing. You make the mistakes, you learn from them, and you can grow from it. OK, We've all met people before that have given.

19:19 I don't know, keep giving a shit for it, OK, You're going to get shit for it. OK, you're going to get shit for it. You're messed up, but you will learn and do better next time. How do you feel being actually not what I didn't want to ask you now. So you're on. We don't have to say you're on holiday because you're not on holiday, because I'm sure you're. Our temporary one week off in between projects, yes. I mean the. Off is a relative term too, you know, I don't, I don't consider it an off day if I have to do more than two Zoom meetings, you know, that's not an off day, that's just an office day. Exactly. So I know you're not off and on holiday, you're you're in between right now.

20:01 But what are you basically? What have you just been? What have you finished just now, or what are you on a break from? Haley So I am sort of in the midst of doing a lot of stuff for Hans Zimmer live. I'm the assistant designer and lighting operator on that show. We have a pretty busy year with Hans. We just finished a couple shows in Riyadh and then did a short leg in the US. And now in about a month we're about to go do Asia Australia leg. And then we're also in the midst of doing a redesign for a new tour in the fall. And then I also have a bunch of fun little corporate shows peppered in amongst that, doing some stuff for VC funding in Vegas, doing a thing for HP, which Ella and I are going to be on together in in Nashville next, in Nashville next week.

21:01 And you know, we always kind of have our garden shows on the back burner. Those are sort of a year round project. So balancing all those. And I, I am fully freelance, so I jump from project to project basically every week. I just did a big show that was in Vegas with XD agency for Lowe's, which was a great project. It turned out really incredible. That whole team there worked so hard to make that project to come together. And then I have been on back-to-back small corporate pharmaceutical shows. Our bread and butter of the corporate industry is definitely. And then I'm, I work basically full time on a true crime podcast conference that's in September this year. Yeah, I love the team that I do that with. That's the Syndicate Music Group. I'm on a show on Saturday with Upstaging for Salesforce. I work pretty consistently with them too. That that team is incredible.

22:01 I've worked for that for the past four years. And it's one of the teams that I like run the full budget for, do all of the travel scoping, do everything with like the client relationship. It's like really fun project for me. I was going to ask you because like organizing, you know, the like basically the hotels, the transfer, like all of that. How did you do that? Like, you know, it's bad enough try to, it's bad enough trying to get a room for me and my husband when we go away for a couple of days and, you know, working out that with a good location that this, that and, you know, the dates. I mean, yeah, how do you do it? You know, tells. I mean, I love a spreadsheet that is the easiest. I think that if you are in production and you don't like spreadsheets, you should learn to love spreadsheets because they are deadly your best friends.

22:47 It is so it is such an effective tool in my day-to-day life. It's like every time it gets updated, it's like a console getting an update for Haley. It's a whole new system that I have to learn. But ultimately in the long run, it does make my life easier, even if I do want to complain about it for the first two weeks after it happens. Yep. But I, I, I love spreadsheets. I love organization. That's always where I like, thrived. Personally. I labeled things in my bedroom from the time that I was 7 until the time I was. Well, how old am I now, 27? So having having a fully stocked office in our basement growing up was very dangerous for Ella. Having access to label makers and post it notes and three hole punches and any kind of tape you could want. She was a monster.

23:42 But I organization I do. I love that. I mean, every night before I like, before I turn off, I write a list everything that I need to do for the next day. And it's not on my phone. It's not a voice. No, it's none of that. Sorry. I it's old school. It's writing it down because for me, yeah, it goes from there. I got. I got to get better at that. Yeah, I have to. It's something that really it cleanses me after the day. And also I course I I cross off the the the To Do List from the day before. That's the best. Yeah. But yeah, I was just really, you know, how do to organise the hotels and do you get an idea from obviously previous tours? So you've got connections obviously with the hotels already.

24:35 And what happens when you've got, you know, two big tours going in at the same place at the same time. You know what happens in those scenarios? You know, where if, if, if a tour manager's like, no, I want to go to this hotel and you're like, well, it's already booked out by so And so, you know, like, are people pretty much easy going or are they? I think once again, that's comes back to what we talked about earlier, which is like the spread of information and sharing contacts and sharing connections that you have, Sharing places that were successful for you previously in like long term stints or even in like short bus turns and things like that. Places that are really good for like single day, like shower rooms and places that are really good if you need some recovery time. I think having a good group and a good network of people who you can share that information with and then share the contacts from the hotel with is the best way to go about it. I can't speak so heavily on touring as I'm sure other people who've been on this can, but the hotels want you there as much as you want to be at the hotel.

25:38 And sometimes it's just reminding yourself that you are really the client walking into there and that that's a negotiation tactic that you need to remember and that you need to use because they should be making your lives easier. And if they're not, then maybe there's someone else you can talk to who does recognize you bringing in 150 hotel rooms and what that really does for them for the next couple of days. Yeah, and that's what it is. Because I mean, one thing I used to love being on tour is, you know, you'd walk into these and there are always nice hotels. I mean, you know, always nice hotels. You walk in, you know, you get off that bus like you feel like the Rockstar. Well, I did anyway, you know, and you got, you got, you get in and you know, all the hotels you take up 150 rooms.

26:22 You know, there's this, you know, sharing or any of the rest of it. You've got 150 people guaranteed. At least half of them are going to get room service. You can guarantee that. And you know. Even out at the bar. Bar, I mean, you know, I often say this, that you know, OK, we will try and save money when we've been on tour, but then you go to that but hotel bar and that's it. Your PDS are gone. Yeah, Ella, Ella has three things that really work to her advantage that always awe me when when I see her doing this because I am so not I I could not do what she does it. It's truly baffling. I think the first thing is willpower.

27:04 The second thing is a little bit of magic, and the third thing is a very strong customer service voice. Ella can do that thing where at a certain point I would be like, all right, I'm going to call back later and she'll just like she'll plow right through. See, and that's that for me. You know, you've got obviously sisters on here now, but both of you are like, no, you know, that would wouldn't be in my direction. You know, like I couldn't do what Ella does. And Ella was like, yeah, no, I'm not. I couldn't do what Haley does either. Yeah. I know what a pretty blue color that is up there because you mean lead to a one? Yeah, it's our pivotal color and I go. OK, Yeah, OK.

27:47 Can I put a post it on that? No, I. Mean, I think we're, I think we're really lucky like that because one, it's really enjoyable working with each other because we can kind of do the things that the other one doesn't really want to do in a way that doesn't feel like a burden. And two, we can cover like a really great breadth of work between the two of us, you know, because because we have almost like counter strengths in a way, we're able to be strong in a wider spectrum of things. So that's why we like working together.

28:29 So the next job you're working on is next week, did you say? Week after, Yeah. Week after, and I'm presuming it's at any one point, you could also be working with your dad as well. So really is the whole family. In fact, Hey, I, your dad was doing a little message for Marcel the other week and you did a a quick drive by. So I, I, I got a glimpse of you as you as, as he was going just past the stage. Yeah. And so obviously being, you know, ladies in the industry, the biggest part of this podcast, leading ladies, I mean, have you faced any unique challenges as a woman in the field? And you know, how do you support others? Yeah, of course, I think the most unique challenge that we've definitely faced is our father being in the industry. It has been, it is it is an absolute blessing to have such an incredible father and mentor and boss sometimes, but also at the same time, he is our dad.

29:40 And I think sometimes people forget that that comes with complexities as well. How to navigate what you call each other on site was I think one of the first challenges that we ever really faced. We have very silly nicknames in our household. I'm Peanut and Haley's Pumpkin. We have been our entire lives, but. Do you believe you just said that I had well-being? A being a 23 year old on site and having one of the like lead creative directors of a project come up to you and say, hey, peanut, how are you doing? It's not really the most politically correct way to deal with something like that on site. And so we all had to navigate that together. That was a challenge.

30:24 We had to navigate as a family and as Co workers. It's very, it is the most incredible thing how much of an impact our dad has left on the industry. But he also has incredibly large shoes to fill. And that is a lot of pressure on Haley and myself on making sure that we are the best versions of ourselves and that we really honor our our heritage and our family name. As silly as it is to say, but that's what it feels like. It's it's a lot of responsibility and also a lot of joy, but also a lot of pressure. Yep.

31:05 And I mean, obviously as well, I'm OK. I'm not saying you have had this, but because of your name, you know, if somebody sees, you know, you've have you had, let's say, horrible experiences where people have gone. Oh yeah, just got that job because of, you know, that's a dad. Yeah, of course. Yeah, so of course, and I mean for me, you know, just looking at the work you've done, looking at all the information you've given me, you know, yes, OK, Your dad is who your dad is. You know, we've light switched with everything. But you got you, ladies. You, you, you, you have made it because of you. You could be, you could be.

31:46 You could have the attitude and be really spoilt about it. You could just have a chip on your shoulder and automatically, you know, just the communication back and forth, just the meeting you now like that isn't the case. So I hope that, you know, if you have, when you've come across these people, they've soon gone. Oh, OK. I hope they've said sorry. Well, they don't, Sarah, but that's OK. But you know. But but, but, but at the but, at the end of the day, you know what it comes down to is just doing good work. There's only so much that people can say when you just show up and you do good work. And at the end of the day, I think that's what Ella and I always strive for.

32:34 We have both made a really conscious effort to really take the time and put in the effort to work through all the rungs of the ladder to get through where we are today. You know, I, I, I went to school for lighting and production design And when I graduated, the first thing I did was go be like the 7th person on 1/6 person crew because that's what I wanted, you know, because I wanted that to, to be able to one day inform my decisions and hopefully make me a better designer and, and creative. You know, I mean, Ella's done the same thing. She had, has had opportunities to really skip rungs on the ladder because she's really excellent at what she does. And she's made really conscious efforts to go through step by step so that you really know the process like the back of your hand.

33:26 So I mean, at the end of the day, when, when you come in and you're young and people are like kind of talking smack a little bit, of course that affects you, You're like 2122 years old or something. You don't have the, you don't, you don't. Your backbone's not as armored yet, you know, But if you just approach everything with the mentality that I'm going to go in and I'm going to just smash it, you know, I'm going to do good work. I'm going to be kind to people. I'm going to do what I can to uplift people in whatever scenario I'm in and an advocate for what I think is right. Then it kind of like doesn't matter what they say because at the end of the day, we can go home and we can feel good about what we've done and we can see some of the the trickles of what we're doing happening in the industry around us. So.

34:18 Yeah, no, I mean, I was just asking because I actually, so I started in my, let's say the career was in Formula One, so I was travelling. With Formula One. Yeah. So that was kind of like my thing for a good ten years plus and I left Formula One and I kind of like took a year out and I, you know, I went in. I didn't really want to be always travelling, but I just wanted to I could never do a normal job anyway. My my story's going to I I end up getting a, a job with a catering company for, you know, my first tour and I'd never, I'd never thought the industry, you know, that there was work in this industry never before. You know, this is only reason it's like now now about eight years ago and basically this I, I was on a on a gig. It was a corporate gig in London and the crew chief, then a woman, I have to say she was the most nastiest piece of work I've ever had the experience of working for. And I know like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm good at what I do when I get when I set my mind to things, I'm good. And I know that big head coming in now. No, it's.

35:31 Important. Yeah, no, but I, I know I am. I know I do a good job and you know, I will do anything, you know, literally anything. And anyway, this woman, I could tell she was like, she just didn't like me, just didn't like me and I didn't understand why. But like in two weeks time I was going on a big tour. It was one of the biggest the company had had for a long time and blah, blah, blah. Now, bear in mind I'd never worked for this company before, but just from my experiences and the interview and the rest of it, they put me on the tour. Well, I'm sorry, I don't, you know, I don't know. They, I feel very lucky. I'm on this tour. And anyway, she literally, she was so nasty and she was like at the I think half not even halfway through after the first week, she was like, why are you on it? There's other girls.

36:14 There's other like ladies in, in our industry. And I was like, I'm I, I'm not sorry, but I'm sorry you feel this way. And you. Know. I really, I, I, I thought about it because I, I don't lose my temper in any way. And I thought, OK, how am I going to deal with this? So after a service and she deliberately made let, how should I say she? Oh, I can't think of my words right now. She sabotaged, she sabotaged something I was in charge of on purpose. And I remember this so well. And yeah, Big, big Boss came in. Of course, she called at me because that was my area when I was, But I hadn't even been shown this area.

37:02 She hadn't even shown me it yet. And then this point was like, oh, yeah, Sarah's in charge of that. Sarah, why haven't you done this? It's like, I just want to go crazy right now. And. That's that's the pivotal decision as as to the kind of person that you want to be, right, because the reaction that you have to nasty people on site is also what makes your briefs to you as a person on site too. Yeah, because if you want to nasty back, you're just feeding into that. Exactly. And I swallowed it all. Like, really, I swallowed it in front of the big, big boss who was coming for a, you know, a sight check. And I took it all. And I was like, I'm not going to play that title tattle back.

37:42 I'm going to take it. I know it's not me. I know it's not me. She knows it's not me. And anyway when the boss left and all the rest of her, I approached her and I said really wasn't cool of what you did just then. I don't know what you mean. I said, well I'll tell you this now if you really think I'm doing a bad job, if you think this, that and the other, I said I will leave now. I said and you can get a replacement or I will leave when you can get a replacement. I. And anyway, she was like straight away within I think one second she changed the rest of the thing. She was like my best friend. Yeah. And, and like, it's, it's so I, I genuinely feel sometimes that is so common in the industry too, because so many people really had to make their own path for themselves and they forget that they have the privilege and the honor of helping other people travel just a slightly easier path than they did.

38:39 And that's a gift that you get to decide whether or not you want to give. And the attitude that you want to bring to it decides whether or not you are going to help pave the way for other people or whether you're going to let them crawl on the same gravelly path that you did. And that's a decision you get to make. And I feel very lucky because there were a lot of women and a lot of really incredible people ahead of me who helped make that path easier. And our our dad really helped teach us the importance of walking on the gravel path but then also paving it behind you for the people behind you too. Yeah, and I think that's the way it should be. Like I learnt my lesson from that Lady and I was like, I have never, ever want to be one treated like that again.

39:26 But to like, really it was controlled, like emotion, like, you know, really like that's just crazy. And sadly, you know, it has happened like in different circumstances, you know, I've seen it, you know, other people treating other people badly. And it's like, and let's start going back to the start. Put your hands on you make a mistake, you know, or why are you making it so difficult for somebody, you know, try and give help. You know, we, you know, we speak a lot about mental health on here. But really, I was going home every night almost crying like, you know, like. That's not what we're here to do. We're here to, you know, you know, whatever it might be, we're here to give and do the best we can.

40:10 It was fortunate enough to be on a tour last year just for one week. But literally someone was crying and I was like, this is not right, you know? You know, like really guys, you know, we're here to go on the show and support each other. So you know, how do you, how do you handle say similar situations or you know, what situations that you've been in regarding the mental health side of things? You know, how do you, how do you help people? How do you stop the nasties? Yeah, I, well, speaking as somebody who has had plenty of times crying on top of a, a pile of multi behind a demo rack, I, I think that it's just kind of like what you said, Sarah.

40:53 You know, one of the big things that our mom has always taught us is that you can control 0% of how somebody reacts to you, but you can control 100% of how you respond. So it's just really like taking the power in that just really realizing that you're you, you have ultimate agency and all of these in all of these situations. And at the end of the day, they have to go home and live with themselves and you have to go home and live with yourself. So. Act. Act accordingly. I suppose, you know, in terms of like, I, I want to just kind of like touch on what you said too, about like somebody crying at work. What we do is incredibly difficult.

41:35 We're asked to give 100 percent, 100% of the time. We're asked to, you know, we miss birthdays, we miss anniversaries, we miss weddings, We miss significant times with our family. And one of the things that I have really learned, especially over the past couple of years, is that while what we do is so it's a really unique job, we get to do a lot of really great interesting things, meet interesting people, travel all over the world. It is work, you know, So at the end of the day, we have to treat everybody with the inherent respect of somebody that you would treat in an office. You know, we have to go in and we have to talk to people like they're at work.

42:22 We have to go in and we have to take care of people and give people a baseline level of respect. Like they're our coworkers just because we live with them and we eat with them and we travel with them. I mean, that's just like that's, that's, that's an add on. A lot of the times it's a bonus, right? Because nine times out of 10, the people you meet are are really excellent and they make you a better person. But in the one out of 10 times that they're not all, all I ever ask from people like that is just just remember that we're at work here. You know, you don't scream at somebody at work, you don't make somebody cry at work. You know, you, you help people, you help to elevate the team.

43:05 Teamwork makes the dream work. And and I think that that's just such an important thing to remember. You know, we're not. We're not at summer camp. We're at work. Do you think that the pressure of, you know, the, the scheduling now, not now, but you know, it's always has been very, you know, like, do you feel that because like we call ourselves family now, sadly, families do argue. And do you think that's kind of, we all get too close when we're on a tour and we're tired and we kind of like hurt the people that we love in a way, you know? But how can we overcome that apart from having like a week off in between a gig? I think everyone's allowed to have a bad day. You know, everyone's allowed to have a bad day every you, you never know what's going on with people. Cutting people's slack is part of being an effective team player and an effective leader, but holding people responsible for their actions is also part of being an effective team player and an effective leader.

44:17 And with what we do, you know, travel, work, eat, you know, live together, sometimes that's a really fine line. But I think kind of like going back to what we, what we were saying a few minutes ago, that's where the, that's where the baseline of really good communication comes in. Because when you have a a, when you, you have a foundation of being able to communicate really well with your coworkers, with your team, with people that you're touring with or working with on site. You're able to move through that stuff, although it may be hard sometimes quickly and efficiently. And I think owning owning your stuff as well, because I think sometimes you forget the effect that you have on your team as well.

45:05 Such a good point now and. Owning how you impact that and really being able to be the bigger person sometimes and come and say, hey, I wasn't the best version of myself or I'm really sorry I didn't get a good night's sleep last night. I'm just not running on full cylinders right now. If you could cut me a little bit of slack. Being the person to communicate that to those around you gives them permission to communicate it to you too. And really giving that common space and that reminding and showing people that we really are human. And some days you don't get a good night's sleep and some days you've forgotten to eat breakfast and you're hangry and some days you or having a really anxious filled day.

45:49 And that's just what being a human is. And when you're spending multiple months with people or even when you're on back-to-back to back shows, it's just important to tell people how you feel. It doesn't make you any stronger by dealing with it by yourself alone in your hotel room at the end of the night. If anything, it's easier to get that one friend who you really trust on on tour on that project to have a beer with you at the hotel and talk it out. Because that's that's the thing that I've learned the most about mental health in this industry is that it it for so long was looked down upon to have problems because it meant that you were slower or meant you weren't performing it you're 100% or it meant that you someone else could come in and take your job.

46:32 And I think the vulnerability of sharing with people that you are not firing on all cylinders are not the best version of yourself in that moment is what makes you invaluable, because that's really what makes you human. Yeah, Elle and I are both are also both big advocates of therapy. And I think that it the the practice of being able to say things out loud, whether it's to a really good friend or to a therapist in like an unbiased situation. It just really helps you process through how you're actually feeling because it's so easy to get spun up about things that you don't actually really care about when you say it in your head, or to get really hurt by things that are actually really inconsequential to you in the lungs in the grand scheme of things. And by being able to say it out loud and process it, you know, I mean, people do it different ways. Ella and I both really benefit from talking about it. Some people really benefit from journaling, writing about it, you know, some people really benefit from going for a run, you know, going to going to yoga, whatever. I mean, figure out what your outlet is to process your feelings and make sure that you don't let go of that. You know, it's really easy to let go of the self-care stuff and the stuff that helps you work through things, especially when you're busy and especially when you're tired. But at the end of the day, that's what keeps you healthy, you know?

48:04 And I think Haley and I have both done a really good job of we talked about the family concept as well. Our industry is so intertwined between personal and professional that Haley and I have spent a lot of time this past couple of years really defining that. You know, I talked to a therapist, but I also talked to a business coach because it's important for me to differentiate those two tracks of my life because they're so intertwined with our family, being interconnected in it, with all of a large majority of my friends being interconnected in it, my sister, it was difficult for me to have my therapy intertwined with it as well. That I found it was really helpful for me to separate those two tracks and like to find some boundaries in it for myself as well.

48:49 Yeah. See, that's great. That's great advice. And I mean really, how do you feel when say you're joining a new tour? So you guys, you know, you've been working together, so you know you've got each other when you are working together, you've now been on hands for quite a while now, Hayley. So you know the crew, so you slowly, but when you join a brand new crew, all the faces, you know a couple, but you don't know so many. Like how do you approach that to influence the rest of the people that are on the tour that it's OK to talk and it's OK to have this like where I feel that there's like, I don't know where the communication is in that part, like. Yeah, it comes with like the friendships you build first, right?

49:37 Haley and I are definitely like planners and we like to do fun things and go to really good meals. And so I think it's for both of us is really establishing like a rapport with those people. You can't just jump in and be like, hey, so we really value mental health here and I'm an IMFJ and I really like to communicate this way in my life. Service like you got to be like what's your favorite beer first, especially on like. That. Yeah, yeah. I think it just, I think it just comes from taking a couple of moments to be. I mean, for me it, it comes from having to be a little bit brave because I am a very social person, but I'm not quite as like naturally extroverted as as Ella and really as John are.

50:30 So for me it's like taking a couple of extra moments to be brave and just be really genuine. And that like pays off in the long run. You know, I know that if I can just, if I can show up as like, like how I want to show up and like how I want things, things to kind of like go in the long run for the first couple of days, the first couple of interactions, then that pays off in the long run. Because you're sort of setting the foundation of what, what people think of you and how people are around you and how you are around people. And if people know that you're an open and hard working and genuine person, then that like pays off in the long run, you know? Yeah, but how would you feel Like there are so many tools that go out there.

51:23 Do you feel that there's more people like you guys like me that feel the same way about talking? Like when I first came into the like, you know, the OR even Formula One, we didn't, we really didn't, you know, so we didn't talk. So do you think are you seeing a change now? I talk about this a lot, which is that I think sometimes we forget how young this industry really is and how we're only really experiencing like the first couple of generations of like retirement in it. So I think that with that comes a new generation incoming as well with new ideas and new thoughts and new emotional development skills and new conversation starters.

52:10 And I really do think that as this younger generation is coming up, they are really advocating for more communication and different types of boundaries and different types of relationship building and different types of development as this industry is continuing to push forward. And I really applaud all the people who are going out and speaking about that. And I really do think that it is changing some of the older generation as well to want to talk about it. I think back to like when I first went on site with my dad and how different it is then to how different site is now. And how much more willing people are able to communicate about their exhaustion levels or the the capacity that they're able to provide you.

53:00 Or if they have the bandwidth to be able to do that, if they're able to do that extra work today, or if they need to call in someone else. Yeah, and I think that's the that thing about calling on somebody else being there for other people as well. And I mean we on geez of gear and leading ladies. You know, we support loads lots of the charities, you know, that are out there. The echo live now. You know they do they're incredible. We had again, my name's got for their name now. We had her on last week. She an incredible lady. Oh damn, what has gone wrong with my name? My name.

53:48 It's the puppy. It's taking all of your brain power. There's a puppy. The puppy has gone. But what would you say are some key lessons you've learned from, you know, just over your experience from from when you started until now? Oh my God, there's so many. How can you choose, you know? OK, I think, I think a big one for me is it's like kind of what we talked about earlier, which is just that if you if you show up and you do good work, then like that's that's the most people can really ask from you. You know, when I first started, I was really nervous about being one of the only women on tour, you know, really wanting to having, having aspirations of really wanting to move into like creative positions of leadership and high higher up positions. You know, I've really kind of had like been dead set on that since I was since I was pretty young. And I just got some really great advice from a couple of really bad ass women and, and, and men who who I really respected and always really respected me.

55:05 And and that was always just the take home, you know, which is just do good work, you know, do good work. And, and and that's, that's the most somebody can ask from you, you know, do you have one in particular L? You know, I think I think back to like Michael and his, his motto was always like we, we only do an excellence, which I think like we only deal in excellence. Yeah, we only deal in excellence. Which has really stuck with me over the past couple of years specifically because the thing that I have learned the most in being freelance in the way that I am is that I get to choose the people that I work for. And I only deal in excellence.

55:49 So I only work for the people that I like, really believe in the people I want to stand behind, the people whose morals and ethics I really align with. And that's such a joy to be able to get to choose that. But I also think like everyone is dealing with imposter syndrome. I, I sat down with a couple of people recently and had a meal where we just talked about how it doesn't matter if you're the executive producer on a show or if you're a production assistant. Everyone has imposter syndrome and you never think that you should be in the role you are, that people trust you with what they trust you with. And that's never going to go away. So instead of like learning to fight it, learn to live with it and embrace the challenges that you feel faced by with it.

56:30 And just really know that you are a badass and you should stick your head up high and you should continue to work hard. And the way that you show up is seen by others. So keep showing up the way that you want to show up. I often think back to our elementary school too, Haley, which we learned the golden rule so young, but I'm still betting us so hard, which is just treat others others want to be treated like don't yell at someone if you wouldn't want to be yelled at. Don't say stuff to someone that you wouldn't say to yourself like. Yeah, I think I think one of the things that we both sort of really strive for both just between the two of us and really within our family as a whole is there's like there's this one David Bowie quote, which I think we all really, we talk about a lot that we all really live by, which is that whether it's, you know, professionally, creatively in, in whatever sort of realm in which you're looking to excel and exceed in.

57:30 And I'm paraphrasing David here, but basically it's that you, you always want to feel like you're walking in the ocean and your feet are just barely touching the sand. You know, as soon as you're planted down, you're not doing anything interesting anymore. You're, you're, you're comfortable, you're grown. You got to keep taking those steps forward so that you're, you're just kind of your toes are just kind of barely scraping the sand. And I think that we all, we work really hard to do that. And that's a really difficult, difficult lesson to learn. You know, there are, there are plenty of people in, in the world and in the industry who, who find their niche and they're really happy there and they're happy to be grounded there.

58:10 And we need those people. But I think that we, we strive to just keep going, you know, and I think that creatively, that's, that's the sort of the feeling that drives us because it's scary. It's it's scary and it's tiring to keep going. Ellen and I talk all the time. We're like, I'm so tired. I'm tired. Do I really have to like, do I have to keep going? I'm tired. And it's, we're lucky to have each other and to have to have John and to have, you know, my mom and, and my husband Steve, because between the five of us, there's always somebody being like. Keep. Going, you know.

58:51 Yep. And of course, the biggest thing is, you know, being a lady in the industry, you know, have you seen what changes have you seen since coming in the, let's say, admiration for things that you do because of a lady? Do you feel like you're treated differently in any way or, or does everyone just embrace the fact and say come on, let's let's get on with it? I don't feel treated any differently because I'm a lady, but that's because of the realm of the industry that I work in is mainly women, women driven anyway. I work for some absolutely incredible executive producers, time producers, stage managers who are all women. Who?

59:34 All celebrate, honor, encourage, cheerlead women to continue to do what they're doing in their industry. I know that Haley is kind of in a more male dominated. Area. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think that I have, I personally have been through some pretty shit experiences that I wouldn't wish on anyone. You know, I when I was when I was like a member on a on certain cruise and stuff, I would have stage hands that would say that they didn't want to work with me and I would have to like bring them to their Stew and be like, don't know what to tell you. You know, like this this guy says he doesn't want to work with me.

1:00:22 And you know, I've had situations where. The the compound of being a woman and also being in a position of privilege to be from a family that that has done really well in the industry. You know, I've had plenty of dudes that have come up to me that have asked me if I'm John Featherstone's daughter. And I've said yes. And then they just walk away and I'm like, my name's Haley, nice to meet you. You know, like all they're really interested in it is like shoving me into that, into that box or whatever. But I think that we have gotten better about making sure that we are giving women more, more positions of, of leadership and that we're really fostering making sure that that women feel more comfortable coming into the industry. I believe fully and always operate from a place that both for like any, any kind of minority in the, in the industry, you know, women, people of color in particular, that there's enough room for everybody at the top. And if there's an opportunity for you to stand on my knee to reach the next level, I am more than happy to do that because I really try to try to recognize what, what I'm able to advocate for and what I'm able to facilitate. And also like the kind of privilege that we have inherently come into the

1:01:55 industry with. And using that as sort of like a boost to, to help more people. And, and I honestly think that when you operate, operate from a mentality like that, you see or acknowledge less of the discriminatory attitudes that people have or your empowered by that mentality in a way that allows you to speak up for people that are maybe not in a position to or have not yet found their voice yet. So I think we're getting better. I don't think we're perfect. I think that we need to continue to elevate the voices of different kinds of people in the industry.

1:02:38 I think we need to continue to prioritize diverse crews and diverse leadership, and we'll get there one day. And the big thing is it's being worked on. You know, there are people like Haley, like DEI groups that are in in these larger companies that are working on making sure to outreach to people of color, to more women, to the younger generation to make sure that we continue to diversify our industry moving forward because people are advocating for it. People like Haley who really embody that on site and embody that on every tour that they go on and with the people that they choose to surround themselves with, with the crews that they have the opportunity to hire, are the people that are perpetuating us forward. I personally, I don't care what you are, male, female, black, white, I really don't care as long as you're good at your job and you you basically you can perform to your highest level. You're the the best person and that you can possibly be. Yeah, it's when, you know, I, I, I have mixed feelings of, you know, going into this, you know, we have to have a woman, we have to have someone black.

1:03:58 We have to have a now transgender. I have mixed feelings about this because it doesn't doesn't matter what you are to me. It's what, how you are and and whether you can do the job. Like I know for me, I couldn't go in and do, I don't know, off kind of thing a hanging job from rigging. I couldn't do it. I've got no upper upper strength. But I'm not saying that you couldn't do that. But if you. Sure. It's making sure that those people have the tools to be able to become the best versions of themselves and to be able to gain the skills and the knowledge they need to be able to take on those positions and know that they can handle them and have Someone Like You trust them in that position because they've been trained properly, because they've been given the opportunities at a lower level to learn how to be really good at those jobs. That's what we're trying to clear the way for. Discriminate, you know, you can't have someone that's old school.

1:04:53 That's like, no, no, no, that's, that's, that's not a that's not a woman's job. Or I know I don't like you because you're this, you're that, you know, that's be where the mind is opening up. So you know, Yeah, you know. And I think we have to get better as an industry about providing opportunities for access to the industry as a whole. You know, I think that depending on where you go to school, depending on where you grew up, depending on a lot of the times what, what your access and availability is to certain types of programming and, you know, classes you can take in, you know, in, in middle school, in high school, whatever that really is.

1:05:35 What tends to be sort of like the cracking open of the door into this industry. And the, the people who have the ability to carve those doors out for people that currently don't have them have a, in my opinion, have a responsibility to do so. Because, you know, that's, that's the, that's the equity part of, of the DEI. You know, we need to, we need to make sure that everybody has an equitable opportunity to come into this industry and to succeed. And, and right now we, we don't do a great job at that. There are a lot of people that are working really hard to make sure that we are better at that. Educational outreach is really difficult. It's a little soul sucking. Schools tend to be weirdly difficult to sort of break into.

1:06:20 You know, everybody wants the help, but they don't want to, in my experience, they don't always want to cooperate as much with people who are like volunteering their time and stuff. But at the end of the day, that's that's the work that really matters is, is making sure we anybody who wants to come and do this in a way that they can have a good career and succeed and bring more interesting and different opinions and outlooks and experience to this. I mean, all of us suffer from not having that, you know, So yeah, just working to continue to provide those those opportunities for people. What?

1:07:00 Advice would you give to, you know, give to the the next generation that's coming into our industry? And for me, do you, do you feel that now it's more open that you can have these incredible jobs? Because before, I mean, OK, I'm older than I'm older than you guys. But like, you know, for me, it wasn't in our school education on the careers chart. You could go off and be a lighting designer. You can go be a production manager. They weren't there. So do you feel that now there's more, more awareness of what what we do? I feel like there are subtle ways that it is being integrated more and more into into college specifically and pathways that we have the opportunity to tap into to gain people who are really knowledgeable about certain aspects of this industry that they don't realize exist.

1:07:55 I mean, the way that I found out the production was what I really wanted to do was by working with like the residence hall association and by planning like large scale events with them. I didn't even realize that what I was doing was production. And I'm familiar with the industry. So I think that there are ways that we can tap into it. But just like what Haley was saying, it's really difficult sometimes to have schools want to work alongside you because there is this industry is still so young and there is still so many people that are only just proving themselves that sometimes it's difficult to be like, well, we've been doing this for 8 generations. Well we haven't been, but it's still a really cool job and you could be on generation three if you really wanted to ask for advice for other people.

1:08:39 I think for people in the industry, it would be to uplift those people that you see that spark in. If I didn't have the people around me who uplifted me because they saw that I was interested in this in a different way than my family is traditionally interested in it, I don't know if I would still be here. And I'd say just continue to talk about it in in rooms that it's not traditionally talked about in. And continue to tell people how exciting and how interesting and how fascinating your job is, even on the days that you are really, really tired and really, really soft, really, really fed up with what you're doing. Remind people how cool it is to see the outcome of the full project and how rewarding it is and how valuable it is to you as an individual to get to experience that fully. And I want other people to experience what I do because I love it so much.

1:09:33 It brings me so much joy. It's probably so many friends, so many lifelong memories, that I want more people to experience it because of that, even if it's also exhausting and overboard sometimes. And I'm running on 0%. I think a lot of the times it's stuff like this, Sarah, I think it's, you know, it's doing podcasts. It's you know, I've said for ages that I would love nothing more than if a bunch of people in the industry got together and did a YouTube video a week and just explained what their job was, you know, and we put that up and just, it's just like a resource for, for people who can punch in the right keywords and get close enough, you know, like, I don't know a single person who doesn't love YouTube University.

1:10:23 You know, they taught me how to recaulk my bathroom. It's unbelievable that you can find anything on there, you know, but so I mean, I think we could, we could do. So the work that people are doing both in like the podcast sphere and with the, with making more free accessible information is so important to give people resources to bridge the gap between what they currently love to do and what is very, a very achievable accessible career path. If you know what it's called, you know, 9 times out of 10, when, when we deal with these, I try to do a lot of educational outreach. And these kids, they're so close to figuring out what they wanna do, but they don't have a name for it. So how are you supposed to go forward if you don't know what the job's called?

1:11:10 I mean, it's so common to us, but in the grand scheme of things, it's really niche. And if you search project manager in the Google search or whatever, you're gonna get like a project manager for like a software company or like a, it's like it's just access to what it is that we actually do that. I think people who are doing that work, it's like it's invaluable, you know? And everyone in the industry calls it different things right now. So yeah, I think that that's also complicated. You know, we need to get to like true clear terms for what our jobs are so that on some projects, I'm not a PA, even though I'm a production coordinator or a project manager or whatever that looks like. You know, coming up with those terms. I was so lucky to have Haley in my life who gave me like a list of what should be in my first Pennsylvania kid or what I should act on my first show site or what kind of shoes I should bring, or the fact that socks are actually more important than your shoes.

1:12:08 And so I would love to be able to provide those resources. Haley and I often talk about that YouTube channel, so maybe one day we'll start it. Yeah, it's funny you should say that because last year I was asked just to go. I was saying to Ella before he jumped on Haley that I went on a tour. I was only for it was for a week. It was with Blink 182. And I said to Marcel, because obviously I work remotely from here. I was like, OK, Marcel, can I please go? You know, it's a week, you know, I'll make sure all this is done before. And I said, yeah, I'll interview loads of people and I'll get this and I'll get that. And I really, I had big dreams. I was going to get everybody from that crew to like, you know, like, talk of me to do this, to do that.

1:12:50 And of course, like, you know, I was only like, I was like the newbie that went in for a week and everyone was like, yeah, what are you like? I was like someone on a tour 30 minutes when you're on, when are you on the bus at the back? Just, you know, get out your little video camera and just like say, OK guys, what have you been up to this time? Start like it would be. But again, isn't something else to a busy day. So you're tired. But I love it, ladies really like. I think that is an awesome idea. Let's do it, Sarah. Let's do it. And I'll be, I'll be the interviewer for the whole crew. Perfect. Next next UK leg of of Hans. We do.

1:13:32 We'll have you out. Yeah, seriously, that'd be amazing. The I'm actually, I don't know if you know this. I'm actually based in Crete. Oh well, I don't know if we'll be in Crete, Sarah. I wish we won't be. Sadly, I don't think you're going to be here. I think the, well, the closest you might get to is Athens. But yes, I. Wish, I wish. I wish we would. Sarah, you live in Crete. I do, yes. What? The hell. That's that's why I don't mind my remote life now so. Yeah, that seems all right. That seems right. Ella, Ella and I work with a technical director sometimes who's, who's Greek and he often times says that he's, he's looking out for our for our Greek house for us.

1:14:14 So my. House we're like, oh. Yeah, the best decision. I'd love to. Yeah, it's been Yeah. I just, I love it here. I love the place and the people. And now married to a Greek, which I never thought that would happen. Fabulous. Yeah, but ladies, I just got one more question. OK. Do you have something, a project, a show that literally you was like, Oh my God, this is so amazing. I'm part of or I've directed. I've like, is there one, just one that you've gone like, wow. Because for me, I was going to say this now, when I was like reading up on Haley and stuff, I was like Paul McCartney tour. It's like, Oh my God.

1:15:00 Yeah, that was, that was a pretty cool one. I, I have been incredibly lucky to get on. I would say that most of the major projects I've done in my life have been like, holy cow, I can't believe that I'm here projects And I really, I credit like working for upstaging a lot with that, you know, real like access to incredible opportunities on incredible tours and stuff. But it's interesting because the older I get, the more I find that the projects that that I'm, I'm able to be like more of a creative lead and a creative director on are the ones that mean the most to me because you, you pour a bit of yours yourself into it. You know, So, I mean, Hans has been an incredible opportunity for, for me and John and our programmer, Chris Herman to work on together.

1:15:54 It's been honestly like a pleasure of a lifetime getting to getting to work on that. And then, you know, Ella and Steve and I work on this garden show at a, at a farm called Fair Oaks together every year. And that is so hard, but it is, it's so fulfilling because we get to do it together, you know, and that's, I think opportunities to work with people that you love and people that you're trying to foster a more future looking and mature relationship with are are the most important, you know. Yeah, I'd definitely say Fair Oaks. There's a project that we work on from start to finish. We come up with all the creative for it, Haley, and has had the opportunity to employ many of our friends on it, which is incredible, both in like creative realms and design realms.

1:16:55 It's been really fantastic. And last year the two of us got to travel to do a show for GE Healthcare to Singapore together, which was pretty incredible. To be able to not only go all the way to Singapore for a show, but to do it with my sister and best friend was really amazing. That's really incredible. Well, thank you so much. I know you guys are so busy. We've been gone over an hour now and I've really, really enjoyed talking to you, hearing about every. Quiz. Yeah, really. No. Thank you so much. And you are both incredible humans. And you know what you've achieved so far is outstanding and you know, it's not it's the influence from family side coming up, but you're you're where you are now because of you.

1:17:43 And that's what thank you. Incredible. So we're just getting going, Sarah, you better. Everybody better watch out for us. We'll be, don't worry. And if you ever end up on this side of the island? Then you will be there you. Give me a shout. I say that to people. You better mean that, Sarah. Because we do. Because we cut, we come. Honestly, my door is always open and sometimes I'm like, oh, you did say you did come. Well, thank you so much. This has been great. We really appreciate the time and and getting to chat with you has been lovely. Amazing. Thank you ladies so much. La La La La ladies, the ladies.

1:18:35 Now here's the leading ladies by Geezers of Gear on tour. Maybe she got some stories to share. Now here's the leading ladies by the Geezers of Gear, Rockstar ladies with some stories to share. Because la, la, la, la ladies. La La, la, la, la ladies. Yes, she's at high. Now here's the leading ladies by Geezers of Gear Rock star ladies for some stories to share.

1:19:31 Now here's the leading ladies by the Geezers of Gear on tour Ladies. She got some stories to share.