#296 - Todd Spencer

1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,760
My brain is exploding.
Todd Spencer is a just a really

2
00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,680
great guy.
He's a consultant in our

3
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,280
industry who has worked with
some of the best companies out

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,560
there.
He's done this for a very long

5
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,960
time.
Smart guy knows a lot about how

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,720
to get guys like me to become
more productive, to kind of hang

7
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,960
between the lines a little
better than maybe we do on a on

8
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:32,320
a day-to-day basis and somebody
who you know, is available to

9
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,960
all of you.
So I definitely would recommend

10
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,240
that if you are looking for
somebody to talk to in your

11
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,600
business, if you're looking to
get ready to sell your business

12
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,960
or if you just need some
guidance, reach out to Todd.

13
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,520
Really, really good guy.
Hello, and thank you for joining

14
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,520
me today on Gears of Gear.
This podcast is brought to you

15
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,440
by AVL Media Group.
AVL is one of the leading

16
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,240
distributors of professional
audio, video and lighting

17
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,480
equipment in North America.
Please take a moment with me and

18
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:10,520
watch their video.
AVL Media Group is an

19
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,600
award-winning distribution
company that has been

20
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,880
established for over 25 years as
a trusted brand in the

21
00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,600
professional audio, video and
lighting markets.

22
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,800
Our new state-of-the-art
facility includes a beautiful

23
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,000
showroom space that is available
for demonstrations, training and

24
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,560
special events.
This grants us the opportunity

25
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,880
to share our knowledge and
provide a unique hands on

26
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:36,440
experience to all our clients.
Our large warehouse facilities

27
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,160
both in Canada and the US allow
us to keep a vast inventory of

28
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,320
all the brands we distribute.
We can get you what you need,

29
00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:46,760
when you need it.
Our first class team of industry

30
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,720
professionals is focused on
delivering outstanding pre and

31
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,200
post sales service and support
to all our clients, ensuring

32
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,560
mutually successful partnerships
and long term growth.

33
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,200
AVL Media Group, your premier
North American distribution

34
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:08,870
partner.
And today's podcast is also

35
00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:12,350
brought to you by Gearsource.
Founded in 2002 with an

36
00:02:12,350 --> 00:02:15,310
ambitious mission to support
live events, businesses buy and

37
00:02:15,310 --> 00:02:18,360
sell gear globally.
Since that time, the company has

38
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,760
transacted in more than 100
countries, selling 1/4 billion

39
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,920
dollars in sound, lighting,
staging and video gear.

40
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,360
Gear Source continues to evolve
the platform for massive global

41
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,320
growth, enabling localized
currencies, payments in escrow

42
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,240
to protect buyers and sellers,
AI powered logistics behind a

43
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,080
new global logistics brand, and
more.

44
00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:44,840
The company has just released
massive new features including

45
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,760
Gear Sync with the ability to
manage up to 400 listings at

46
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,160
once, plus Need Zone, an
automated shopping assistant for

47
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,960
hard to find items.
Take full control over your gear

48
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,480
with a visit today to
gearsource.com.

49
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:39,680
Hello and thanks for joining me.
So today's podcast is being

50
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,560
recorded on a Weird Monday
podcast recording.

51
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,320
Usually we record on, we've just
switched to Tuesdays and

52
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,840
Wednesdays.
It used to be Wednesdays and

53
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,040
Thursdays, so keep that in mind
if you're looking to come on the

54
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,560
podcast.
But today we're recording on a

55
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,720
Monday and and it's for a a
reason because that's when both

56
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,440
parties were available
basically.

57
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,440
And it's an important podcast,
which I'll get into in a couple

58
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,920
of minutes.
But this happens to be not on

59
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,640
not only any Monday, but as a
very special Monday.

60
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,400
It's the day after Super Bowl.
And so first of all, what you

61
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:20,399
think of the game, and I think I
like almost everyone who doesn't

62
00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,520
live in Kansas City, was rooting
for somebody to beat the Chiefs.

63
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,560
And why is that?
It's not because I hate Kansas

64
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:28,960
City.
I actually like the town.

65
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,400
I like the people there, very
Midwestern values.

66
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,160
I used to have a franchise there
and it was one of my favourites.

67
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,360
Really good people.
It's a small market, so it's

68
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,360
always nice to see when small
markets win in the Super Bowl.

69
00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,760
But you know, I think I'm just
against dynasties.

70
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,480
I don't like dynasties for any
sport, whether it's hockey or

71
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,640
football or, or basketball or
whatever it is.

72
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,720
You know, I guess basketball
might be a bit of an exception

73
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,000
just because of how great
Michael Jordan was.

74
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,080
But I'm, I'm just not a fan of
dynasties, you know, and it's

75
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,160
just that I think that it's so
hard to build 1.

76
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,720
So you really should be a huge
fan of dynasties.

77
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,240
But at the same time, it just
gets boring watching the same

78
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,360
team win every year.
And I guess if you're in that

79
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,440
market, it's great.
It's it's, I've never been a

80
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,040
part of that.
I've never been a part of a

81
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,520
dynasty.
So maybe that's why, maybe I'm

82
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:27,440
just bitter.
I don't know.

83
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,520
But I was happy to see the
Eagles win.

84
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,200
I thought they really deserve to
win.

85
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,560
I think the score was much
closer than the game.

86
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,920
You know, at the end,
Philadelphia wasn't paying

87
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,160
attention to whether or not the
other team scored.

88
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,800
They were just running the clock
down, letting other people on

89
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,040
the field so they could say they
played in the Super Bowl,

90
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,160
etcetera.
So they weren't taking the very

91
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,600
the game very seriously.
So I think anything over six

92
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,040
points is kind of questionable
in that game.

93
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,320
The six points they actually
really did score.

94
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,200
You know, Kansas City got them
and they got the other points

95
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,800
too, but I think they got them
under sort of suspicious

96
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,160
surroundings, whatever you want
to call it.

97
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,480
But anyways, congratulations to
Philadelphia.

98
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,240
The city and the team well
deserved win.

99
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,280
And even though they're burning
their city down, I'm pretty sure

100
00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:23,760
fans appreciate it.
I know all the ones that I know

101
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,560
who aren't burning the city down
right now really do appreciate

102
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,680
the the win.
So besides that, the ads, of

103
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,640
course, have become a big part
of the Super Bowl culture.

104
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,080
I don't generally care.
I know that Doritos usually have

105
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,360
the funniest ads and Budweiser
with the Clydesdales usually

106
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,160
have the, you know, the heart
pull ads.

107
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,080
I don't know.
I just thought it was pretty

108
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,560
boring.
I thought the commercials were

109
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,680
pretty blah.
Like nothing really jumped out

110
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,520
at me.
I kind of liked the Harrison

111
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,040
Ford Jeep ad.
I thought it was pretty nice and

112
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,720
really, really well done and
probably money well spent for

113
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,440
Jeep to really identify
themselves as part of the the

114
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,600
sort of core fiber of America.
It was pretty cool.

115
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,120
And I just happened to be
shopping for a Jeep for for my

116
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,960
house in Canada right now too.
So, so I thought that was nice.

117
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,520
The AI joining the game was
interesting to see.

118
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,480
You know, Open AI spent $30
million on an ad to basically

119
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,080
tell people, hey, we're more fun
than just being a bunch of

120
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,200
programming geeks.
And I didn't get it didn't make

121
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,240
much sense to me.
It didn't make me want to use AI

122
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,920
or use specifically open AI any
more than I already do.

123
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,960
Or ChatGPT.
The Meta one I thought was OK.

124
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,320
You know, I, I know a few
people, including Eric Loder

125
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,160
from Elation who wear those.
I think they're called Meta

126
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,760
glasses.
I'm not sure, but I know a bunch

127
00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,120
of people who wear them.
Not a bunch.

128
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,160
I know a few who wear them and
swear by them, think that

129
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,120
they're a really cool sort of
next step in eyewear.

130
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:10,040
And I don't know, I don't know
how I feel about it.

131
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,840
I don't know if I want to record
all the actions that I see on a

132
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,840
daily basis.
And I don't know if I want to be

133
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,160
constantly connected.
Like I'm already pretty

134
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,800
connected having a phone and a
computer near me at any given

135
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,040
moment.
But having those glasses where

136
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,800
you're literally 100% connected
100% of the time, I don't know

137
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,720
if I want that.
But the ads were pretty cool.

138
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,520
One of the things that actually
my girlfriend noticed was that

139
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,840
there were three different
characters from up Shits Creek

140
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,400
or Shits Creek.
I don't think it's called up

141
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,640
Shits Creek, just Shits Creek.
Three different characters on

142
00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:47,160
the and don't ask me to name
actors.

143
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,120
I don't know names.
Eugene Levy.

144
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,120
That one I remember, but I don't
remember the woman's name, and I

145
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,840
don't remember the sun's name,
but they were also the sun was

146
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,320
in the Meta ad.
The woman, I don't even remember

147
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,560
which ad she was in.
And Eugene Levy was in the one

148
00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,800
where his eyebrows flew away,
which I thought was pretty

149
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,760
hilarious until there was
another ad, which was very

150
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:07,960
strange.
I don't know if it was a

151
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,160
coincidence or if they're part
of the same company or

152
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,000
something, but another one where
a mustache flew away.

153
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,520
And I was like, well, this is a
strange trend for Super Bowl

154
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,880
ads.
So yeah, that's it for the ads.

155
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,640
And then, of course, the
halftime show, which is the most

156
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,840
probably dividing halftime show
I've ever seen, you know,

157
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,760
racially dividing, nationally
dividing, artistically dividing,

158
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,680
whether or not you like the
music.

159
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,800
You know, old people versus
young people, I guess in a

160
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,280
sense, because old people were
like, what the hell was that guy

161
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,200
saying?
Like couldn't understand a

162
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,320
single lyric except turn off
your TV, which I think a lot of

163
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:54,680
people did anyways.
You know, the, the I'm getting a

164
00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:56,920
little tired of the racial
thing, you know, like just

165
00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,640
basically being shoved in your
face constantly.

166
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,640
I'm not a racist.
I don't need anti racism

167
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,520
messaging.
So for me, where you're just

168
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,480
constantly pushing it, to me
that is racism.

169
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,160
Like maybe maybe we shouldn't
talk about it quite so much.

170
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,640
Maybe we're just all people,
right?

171
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,560
So that's sort of my take on
that.

172
00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,040
I know everyone has their
opinion and I don't care.

173
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,520
I'm OK.
If you loved this and you

174
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,880
thought it was incredible
messaging, I'm perfectly good

175
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,800
with that.
And I've actually seen some

176
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,280
friends of mine say things like
that and I'm OK with it.

177
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,880
But for me, it was just a little
too much.

178
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:37,040
And and then also, you know, the
show itself, the the production,

179
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,560
there's been a lot of back and
forth and, you know, especially

180
00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:44,240
on the Facebook groups that get
pretty crazy anyways and

181
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,280
opinionated and divisive and all
of those things.

182
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,240
But a couple of angles, one
being the lack of color, the

183
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,640
fact that they only used white
light was an interesting way to

184
00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,440
do it.
And did I love it?

185
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,240
Not really.
I mean, it was kind of boring.

186
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,360
I thought, did I hate it?
Not really.

187
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,680
You know, I, I didn't go one way
or the other.

188
00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:13,280
To me, the show just seemed
almost like it was being done

189
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,680
under work lights, you know,
like it was, it was being

190
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,160
rehearsed and, and they didn't
use the show lighting.

191
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:19,680
They were using work lights or
something.

192
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,800
I don't know, it was just weird.
It was, it was very different,

193
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,360
very unusual.
Maybe I'm not an artist, maybe

194
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,640
I'm not artistic enough to
really have seen what parts I

195
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,800
was missing.
Also, people, you know,

196
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,320
applauded his performance, his
dance performance, which to me

197
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,360
was just really not very
exciting or interesting.

198
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,760
So I don't know.
I didn't get it, you know, was I

199
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,440
out on the Internet saying this
was disgusting, the worst show

200
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,800
I've ever seen?
It certainly wasn't the best,

201
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,520
but I didn't post about it and
I'm not going to post about it.

202
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,840
But, you know, it pushed me to
remember halftime shows like

203
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,400
Prince in Miami, which was
unbelievable.

204
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,440
You know, that version of purple
rain is burned in my brain

205
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:06,160
forever on the, you know, the
Prince logo, whatever his symbol

206
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,960
shaped stage, which I thought
was incredible.

207
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,880
It it the lasting value of that.
Like I went back and watched it

208
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,840
again this morning.
Incredible.

209
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,680
Just an incredible halftime
show.

210
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,840
The Stones, Paul McCartney, you
too.

211
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,960
Who else can I think of?
You know, just so many memorable

212
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,760
halftime shows.
Tom Petty, I thought was great.

213
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,720
You know, so many incredible
halftime shows.

214
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,480
Even to be perfectly honest,
Rihanna last year, although I

215
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,840
didn't love the show, I I
shouldn't say I didn't love the

216
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,440
show.
I don't like her music.

217
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,080
I don't necessarily think she's
that incredible, but the show

218
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,320
itself was incredible.
And the fact that a pregnant

219
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,000
woman was flying around was
pretty incredible.

220
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,040
The production was pretty
incredible.

221
00:12:55,560 --> 00:13:00,720
So that had a lot of positive
stuff to it, I guess.

222
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,160
But, you know, for me, this
certainly wasn't up there as as

223
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:09,680
the best ever or, or probably
closer to the worst for me.

224
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,680
Was it the worst?
I don't think so.

225
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,760
You know, I can't think of a
particular one that I liked less

226
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,680
than this one.
But you know, for the people who

227
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:22,160
did it, I'm sure they put in a
lot of effort and I'm sure that

228
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,000
they think what they were doing
was edgy and, and incredible.

229
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,600
And again, maybe I'm just
ignorant, you know, maybe I just

230
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,520
don't know enough to know what I
don't know.

231
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,480
And so I'm not dogging it at
all.

232
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,640
I I'm just saying for me, it
wasn't my favorite halftime

233
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:39,360
show.
That's all.

234
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:42,200
That's it.
No other statement beyond that.

235
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:48,720
And So what else?
Oh, by the way, on that halftime

236
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,120
show, I, I read a post that said
something about this being, you

237
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,960
know, an incredibly artistic
approach to Black Americans

238
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,520
navigating an authoritarian
government.

239
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,840
All this stuff, like, again, bit
too much for me.

240
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,200
At the end of the day, this is a
football game and the halftime

241
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,280
show just should be the time
when people get up and go to the

242
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:14,360
bathroom and get another beer,
you know, and some people sit in

243
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,200
their seat because they want to
watch the ACT perform or

244
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,240
whatever.
But I don't know that we need to

245
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,880
be making these massive
statements during a football

246
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,800
game.
Like I've never been for sports

247
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,520
getting involved in politics or
artists getting involved in

248
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,240
politics or politics getting
involved in sports or whatever.

249
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,120
Like just, you know, let people
enjoy the damn game, you know,

250
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,800
and, and the halftime show
should just be entertaining for

251
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,080
everyone.
It should be all inclusive.

252
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,960
It should entertain everyone.
It shouldn't point fingers at

253
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,840
anyone.
It shouldn't make a statement.

254
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,600
Again, my opinion only.
So on to today's podcast.

255
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,640
I'm often asked of who I
personally and, and as my

256
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:05,840
businesses as well use either as
advisors, personal advisors, a

257
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,880
board of advisors.
You know who who I would have on

258
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,320
that board of advisors.
You know, I'm always really

259
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,240
quick to give advice.
So who do I get advice from?

260
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,760
And today's guests, Today's
guest is one of those advisors

261
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,120
who I trust a great deal.
In fact, Todd, today's guest has

262
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,400
helped me to navigate through
probably the most difficult time

263
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,680
in my own business over the past
few years and coming out the

264
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,520
other end finally, but you know,
really, really a challenging

265
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,640
time for me due to some stuff
that I'm not going to get into

266
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,960
right now.
But, and since then, we've

267
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,760
become not only good friends,
but we've also become sort of

268
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,600
back and forth advisors.
I help him on some of his own

269
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,880
business problems and he
continues to help me on mine.

270
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,720
We have a standing call every
Friday that we're on and we talk

271
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,200
about the industry, we talk
about what's going on out there.

272
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,320
We talk about our own
businesses, we talk sometimes

273
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,240
about our families, but just a
really super smart dude,

274
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:13,440
extremely level headed, just a
great personality, compassion

275
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,880
and, and you know, just one of
the most patient people when it

276
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,200
comes to dealing with my
journey, for example.

277
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:27,800
And so Todd Spencer has a career
that spans more than 25 years,

278
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,600
with firms varying in size from
1,000,000 to $3 billion in

279
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,600
revenue.
Over 18 years in executive

280
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,160
leadership roles, working with
both startups and established

281
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,800
companies to guide strategic and
operational growth,

282
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,360
acquisitions, turnarounds and
business sales.

283
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,440
Established track record of
success in strategic plan

284
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,200
development, operational
optimization, new program design

285
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,040
and deployment, business
acquisition and sale, and the

286
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,040
executive leadership of
multifaceted global teams

287
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,400
generating success with a client
centered culture.

288
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,680
Established credibility and
industry reputation.

289
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,720
Partnering with AV and
specialist event companies to

290
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,160
achieve their growth vision
through transformative

291
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,319
strategies.
Providing consultative guidance

292
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,760
to executives, entrepreneurs,
and ownership groups to maximize

293
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,560
the value and output of their
business.

294
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,320
Todd is also the current acting
president of ESTA and just a

295
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,120
great guy.
So I'm really super happy to

296
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,880
have him on today.
And please welcome Todd Spencer.

297
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,920
Hello, Todd.
Hey, Marcel, good morning.

298
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,680
Happy Monday.
Happy Monday to you.

299
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,440
So Todd and I were just having
sort of a continuing

300
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,920
conversation of the Super Bowl
to which he probably paid less

301
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,880
attention than even I did,
especially to the halftime show.

302
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:03,200
And but we both kind of agree,
you know, that I think it's it's

303
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,520
a football game.
It's meant to be fairly light

304
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,520
hearted and you know, something
you consume with beer and

305
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,200
nachos.
Not necessarily like, you know,

306
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,200
AI don't know thesaurus to try
and figure out what words you

307
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,560
should use to describe its
impact on society or whatever.

308
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,360
Anyways, that's where my head's
at with it.

309
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,080
The football game was fun
because I didn't want Kansas

310
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,200
City to win and they didn't by a
stretch.

311
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,560
Who are you going for?
Really, neither of the teams are

312
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,360
teams that I've followed over
the years, so yeah.

313
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:40,560
Me too.
Yeah.

314
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,880
Me too, yeah.
I just see, you know, I, I

315
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,160
talked about this on the, on the
intro, but I'm just sort of not

316
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,760
into legacies or, or these not
legacies.

317
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,160
What do you call them?
Dynasties.

318
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,960
Dynasties.
I don't like dynasties when when

319
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,240
teams win 3 or 4 championships
in a row, it just gets really

320
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,840
boring.
Like you want different teams.

321
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,040
I was really looking forward to,
you know, seeing Buffalo finally

322
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,480
get back in there, as much as I
hate Buffalo because they're in

323
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,920
my conference, right?
Or my division, but I wanted to

324
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,960
see Buffalo and Detroit, like
half this country or most of

325
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,440
this country wanted to see, you
know, sort of two kind of

326
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,760
underdogs who hadn't won it in
God knows how long.

327
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,280
And I just thought that was
going to be the ideal game.

328
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,120
So when it ended up being Philly
and Kansas City, you just kind

329
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:35,400
of had to pick pick 1.
So and Philly needs something to

330
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,360
celebrate because you knew you
knew they were going to burn

331
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,400
their town down South.
They needed something to smile

332
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,600
about at the end of all of that.
And God knows they haven't

333
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,880
disappointed from the few posts
and stuff that I've seen, the

334
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,640
news that I've seen, they
they're ruining their town

335
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,080
again.
That's another thing I don't

336
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,880
really understand.
Another head scratcher is we win

337
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,920
championships and then we go.
Let's.

338
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,160
Flip over cop cars and burn our
town down.

339
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,400
I don't understand that
mentality.

340
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,640
It's just not something I ever
felt like doing when I won you.

341
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,200
No, I haven't actually seen
that.

342
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,400
I've I've been neglectful of the
news the last sort of 24 hours.

343
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,960
So that's it.
That's the first I'm hearing,

344
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,080
yeah.
Any 24 hours where you're able

345
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,120
to neglect the news is probably
OK.

346
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,880
It's probably not a bad thing.
Mental health break.

347
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,320
So thank you for coming and
doing this.

348
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,120
I really appreciate it.
And I think there's a lot of far

349
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:31,840
more important things for us to
discuss than the Super Bowl.

350
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:38,840
And I just felt like it.
It's a another sort of weird

351
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,000
time for our industry and we've
gone through so many of them

352
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,240
starting in 2020.
Like if you think back to 2019,

353
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,440
everything was so normal.
Like every year we were growing

354
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,800
a little bit year over year, a
little bit year over year, a

355
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,560
little bit year over year.
And since that time, it's just

356
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,320
been unpredictable, bat shit
crazy, not enough of this stuff,

357
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:09,520
way too much of this stuff, you
know, big top, top line sales,

358
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:18,240
bad bottom line, a mix of a lot
of really unusual things that I

359
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,480
think many people in our
industry and even myself

360
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,480
included were maybe not really
well enough educated to deal

361
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,080
with.
You know, like we didn't, we

362
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,800
didn't have the training or or
background to navigate some of

363
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,920
these waters that we've been
forced to go through.

364
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:40,080
So, you know, I think that first
of all, I want to go into your

365
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,560
background just for a minute
because for people who haven't

366
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,480
seen your previous podcast or
whatever, you have such an

367
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:55,600
interesting sort of group of
experience in that, you know,

368
00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,120
you grew a company from zero to
sorry, there's a bug suddenly

369
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,960
flying around my head.
So it's not just me losing my

370
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,800
mind.
There's a bug that has just

371
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,760
decided I'm going to annoy the
host.

372
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,200
You know, not many people can
say they've grown a company from

373
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,400
5 million to 20 million, let
alone from zero to what was it,

374
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,680
2 billion or something, 1
billion.

375
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:22,720
In in overall organization, but
had direct hand in, in about 1/2

376
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,520
a bit little over half a
billion, yeah, 5600 million.

377
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:30,200
I mean, so what's that like?
Because I would expect that when

378
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,600
you're growing a company from
zero to to 1/2 a billion

379
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,880
dollars, there are a lot of
different businesses wrapped up

380
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,400
in that, right?
There, there are.

381
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,440
I mean, there's a lot of
graduation to it.

382
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,560
And one of the common
misconceptions I think that

383
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,360
people have is they associate
the longer they've been doing it

384
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:52,200
with, the more able they are to
make the transition.

385
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,400
And having consulted with many
of these organizations of all

386
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,200
sizes, now, I, I would almost
say it's the opposite.

387
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,480
The more time you've spent in a
certain lane, almost the more

388
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:07,960
valuable having some outside
perspective is to weigh in and,

389
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,640
and offer what that next step
sort of looks like.

390
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,600
And I, I would say a lot of it
has to do with just the mindset

391
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,160
that you needed to start.
It is not the mindset you're

392
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,200
going to need in the next sort
of 6 or 10 iterations of the

393
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,960
company.
If you're really lucky, you

394
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,400
know, most people start in that
kind of, as I've said, all hands

395
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,080
on deck or three Musketeers mode
where you have a lot of utility

396
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,440
players and that's really
helpful in the beginning.

397
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,320
You kind of need that.
You need people to jump in and

398
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,840
tackle whatever task is on deck
and trust them to get it done.

399
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,920
As time goes on though, you
start stepping on each other and

400
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,840
you conflicting that if done
poorly will kill your business.

401
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,480
If it's if it's done poorly
enough, if it's sort of just

402
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,560
ignored and and everybody says
we just need to work harder,

403
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,440
it'll continue to survive, but
it will hit a limit.

404
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,120
And usually that limit is no
higher than about 20 or

405
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,200
25,000,000.
There's some unicorns out there,

406
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,880
but in terms of that founder LED
utility operated player business

407
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,000
one year 25,000,000 is feeling
significant stress.

408
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,280
You're going to have a lot of
other culture issues happening

409
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,840
inside.
But yeah, yeah, that's, that's

410
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,720
really true.
And especially as the company

411
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,080
starts to look at who it wants
to be at sort of 50-60 million,

412
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,880
again at 100 million, two 50 is
different still so on and so

413
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,200
forth.
If you don't have a playbook for

414
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,560
what each one of those levels
looks like, it creates a lot of

415
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,920
pain for you.
Rather than than saying, you

416
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,280
know what I think, I think we
need a peek at the playbook for

417
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,040
how to get from 60 million to to
500 million.

418
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,880
How many steps do we take and
what are they?

419
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,440
What about though, even even
that business from zero to

420
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,360
25,000,000, you know like you
said at 25,000,000, you kind of,

421
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,800
you know what, what got us here
isn't going to get us there past

422
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,520
25,000,000.
You need more of an

423
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,800
organizational structure, less
of a fly by the seat of your

424
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:00,320
pants entrepreneurial structure.
But even going from zero to

425
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,440
25,000,000, like what are some
of sort of the, the thresholds

426
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,480
that you hit where you go, Oh
God, I didn't realize this was

427
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,560
going to happen.
Like, I would assume, you know,

428
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,480
one of the things I know I
learned as a business owner is

429
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,280
just because you're growing
doesn't mean that you have

430
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,120
money, have capital and that
you're going to have enough

431
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:23,600
capital to continue sustaining
that business.

432
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,360
And but what are what are like
some of the lessons along the

433
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,280
way even in that zero to
25,000,000, which I would guess

434
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,200
probably a large majority of the
people who listen to my podcast

435
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,000
are in that range, like maybe
half or something are in that

436
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,640
that sort of size.
Yeah, I would say it's the most

437
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,840
consequential range.
It is the, in my opinion #1

438
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,960
decider of whether you will grow
the company past 25,000,000 or

439
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,240
not is your ability to navigate
a few fundamental things within

440
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,840
that threshold.
Otherwise it'll cap it, as I

441
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,360
said, at the 2025 million and
you'll sort of continue to write

442
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:01,840
it out.
The thing is that that generally

443
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,840
happen is you start a business
at zero and you're working real

444
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,120
hard and you get some clients
and your, your success is

445
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,600
project based.
So you equate success and making

446
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680
more money to how many projects
you get or how many events you

447
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,680
do, right.
It's it's a very tactical

448
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,400
connection.
Very transactional too.

449
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,720
Very transaction, yeah.
And that ceases to be the case

450
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,360
north of 25,000,000 and and
especially north of a hundred

451
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:31,400
200 million definitely.
And so as you think about that,

452
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,040
the steps in the in the under
25,000,000 as a founder who gets

453
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,080
their business to say 3 or 5
million, you're going to see a

454
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,120
few things.
The first of which is you can't

455
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:45,000
do it all by yourself anymore.
The second is, is your mindset

456
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:50,080
as a founder has to change from
more tactical operator to one

457
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,280
who's who's kind of a beginning
executive leader.

458
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,280
You're you're working, you're
working above the business in

459
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,200
some ways to direct the activity
rather than being out, say,

460
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,560
doing all the business yourself
or being the point person to

461
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,320
your customer.
And that's a big shift for

462
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,240
people that are in that that
scope.

463
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,040
The other thing that happens is
that about four or five million,

464
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,360
your working capital as a
founder starts to get real

465
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,320
interesting.
Interesting.

466
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,040
I mean scary.
Because.

467
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,680
They're not used to holding a
reserve, maybe to the level that

468
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,560
they have.
They see that income and they

469
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,440
go, wow, this is awesome.
It's going to continue like

470
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,000
this.
And more.

471
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,760
Spend more, make more.
Spend more right and the way

472
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,040
that you look at your business
once you get above that 5

473
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,600
million, you know now you might
want to start doing some capital

474
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,840
planning on on assets you want
to block by you might want to

475
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,080
start thinking about, hey, do I
have the right organizational

476
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,520
structure and the people there.
I got a team full of techs,

477
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,040
which is what I've had since 0
million right that are that are

478
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,640
out in the field that are doing
all the things needed.

479
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,200
But now it's kind of on me all
the time to be the backstop and

480
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,720
have the answer to every
technical question that comes at

481
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,440
me.
Is that who I want to be in this

482
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,680
version of my business?
And I would say the answer is

483
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,800
no.
But those are some of the things

484
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,640
that I see that happened pretty
commonly that if you haven't

485
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,800
experienced it, you don't know
to be aware of it and you also

486
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,800
don't know how to solve it.
And so if you can solve for some

487
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,000
of those things early on, you
will set yourself up to get to

488
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,040
15/20/25 and then ultimately can
grow a lot further.

489
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,280
Well, I know in my own company,
like one of the things I noticed

490
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,280
very early on, 20 years ago or
whatever, is I sort of crossed

491
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,520
a, a threshold where I was
actually able to pay myself a

492
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:41,040
real salary, like a real amount
of money that that almost got

493
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,680
back to where I was pre starting
my own business.

494
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,520
And I was like, well, wait a SEC
because I didn't really start

495
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,040
the company because I thought I
was going to go out and make

496
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,880
tons of money.
I did it because I wanted the

497
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,760
freedom of having my own
business.

498
00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:00,160
And I just felt boxed in by
working for other people, which

499
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,280
for some people is an issue for
some isn't.

500
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,640
And and that's why there are
employees and there are business

501
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,720
owners and there's entrepreneurs
and there's managers and there's

502
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,320
all different types of people.
Thank God.

503
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,120
But I know for me, like I went
through, first of all, an

504
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,560
emotional thing where it was
like, well, can the company

505
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600
afford to pay me?
Like, do I deserve to take, you

506
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,880
know, $100,000 salary out of a
company that's only doing

507
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,240
$1,000,000 a year in business or
whatever?

508
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:34,720
And so getting past that guilt,
but also building that into the

509
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,920
business.
So the business knew that it had

510
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,120
to pay me.
And I'm just making these

511
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,680
numbers up, but let's say
$10,000 a month as the, as the

512
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,240
founder, CEO and also the main
sales guy, the dishwasher, the

513
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,920
floor sweeper and everything
else in between to build that

514
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,720
into the company's budgets so
that the company.

515
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,680
And it's almost like I'm sure
you're familiar with, with

516
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,000
Profit First, the book and the
philosophy and mentality of

517
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:09,600
Profit First.
I feel like for founders of

518
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,920
these small businesses that are
going zero to whatever that is

519
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,720
not a, that's not a mentality
that you think of.

520
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,720
You're thinking pay everyone
else 1st.

521
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,120
And if there's a nickel
leftover, I might be able to

522
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:28,120
afford to eat today.
So is that a challenge that

523
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,280
every startup business owner
kind of goes through?

524
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,560
It, it depends.
I, I sort of see it all over the

525
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,520
spectrum, but I think that it,
that is a common one that is

526
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,520
there.
Or on the far other end of the

527
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,240
spectrum, you have the CEO that
gets a big project or, or

528
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,440
founder, I should say in this
case, and sees a lot of money in

529
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,760
the bank account and says that's
great.

530
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,800
I'm going to take my dream trip
now and then can't make payroll

531
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,320
the next time around.
I've seen that as.

532
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,760
Well, I know those people as
well.

533
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,040
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.

534
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,400
Yeah, it's finding that that
sweet spot, you know, of how to

535
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,520
how to keep it sustainable.
Yeah, yeah.

536
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,080
I mean, I just, I always liked
that profit first mentality

537
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,320
where it was profit first didn't
necessarily mean that I'm going

538
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,960
to get paid and, and everyone
else, you know, go # sand it.

539
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,880
It just meant that I was going
to focus on like multiple

540
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,520
buckets in this bucket might be
for paying, you know, overhead.

541
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,160
And this bucket might be for
paying taxes and this bucket

542
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,720
might be for paying, you know,
whatever the other part of that

543
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,200
is.
And but one of those buckets has

544
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,160
to be profit.
You have to account for profit

545
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,720
because otherwise it's it's just
too easy to let it disappear.

546
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,960
And Oh yeah, we can afford to
discount that again, or we can

547
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,280
afford to lower the price on
this service or pay an

548
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,360
additional person or give
everyone another raise just even

549
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,160
though they got one last month
or whatever.

550
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,000
It's too easy to do that stuff
if you're not really focused on

551
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,880
profit, not just.
And you know, that sort of spins

552
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,200
into I think a little bit of
where our industry has gone on a

553
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,600
journey over the past 18 or 24
months where we were so Uber

554
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:15,720
focused on top line revenue that
and you know, arguably some of

555
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,440
the biggest and and possibly
even the biggest companies out

556
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,240
there are struggling with right
now.

557
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,800
You know, I know that there's
one in particular that's trying

558
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,880
to sell and their problem isn't
top line revenue.

559
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,840
They've done very well growing
their top line revenue, but the

560
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,480
problem is they haven't made
money while doing it.

561
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,440
They've been reducing their
their EBITDA and and and their

562
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,040
profit while growing their top
line revenue.

563
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,840
So like you said, there's a
balance, but I'm guessing that

564
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,120
that changes as well.
That whole dynamic changes when

565
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,760
you're going from zero to 5
million and then 5 to 15 or 20

566
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,000
million and 20 to 50 or whatever
those numbers are.

567
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,280
Yeah, but.
Yeah, I kind of, I kind of refer

568
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,720
to that as the sweet spot when
I'm working with people because

569
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,720
of the sweet spot changes
depending on market conditions,

570
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,800
depending on your customers
needs, when there's oversupply

571
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,320
in the market, then you have to
change gears a little bit to

572
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,200
sort of meet maybe who you want
to be to distinguish yourself

573
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,040
and still win business, right.
I think about it like a car on

574
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,040
the freeway.
You get on the freeway and you

575
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,480
set your cruise control and your
cruise control is optimized if

576
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,000
there's nobody else on the road
for getting you there fastest

577
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,640
with best fuel economy, right?
Like there's factors that figure

578
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,240
into it.
But what happens when somebody

579
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
pulls in front of you on the
next on ramp and you have to

580
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,960
slow down?
Well, you can't just crash into

581
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,160
them, right?
You still have to slow down.

582
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,160
You have to adjust, but in that
adjustment, you're no longer in

583
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,880
the sweet spot of of where you'd
ultimately like to be, but you

584
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,720
are in a spot where you might
have to be for the moment you

585
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,480
maintain other factors you care
about.

586
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,240
And so I think that's what
people get too locked into,

587
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,600
especially in smaller companies
is they're not dynamically

588
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,040
saying, am I in the sweet spot
of where I need to be this

589
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,880
quarter or this year?
They're very frequently saying,

590
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,199
well, it's worked this way for a
long time.

591
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,719
These are our customers, we're
very relationship driven and we

592
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,639
stay the course.
Well, that can be tough if

593
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:24,159
somebody gets on the on ramp in
front of you with the flash of

594
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,639
your car, you know, and, and I
think that's the real challenge

595
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,480
is you have to be a dynamic
thinker, but you also have to

596
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,679
know how to look for the sweet
spot in all areas of your

597
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:34,239
metrics.
And that extends not just to

598
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,880
revenue and EBITDA, but your
staffing metrics.

599
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,679
How many people should you hire
and when and what should be the

600
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,880
criteria.
So you're not too late to the

601
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,520
game, but then you're not hiring
too early and carrying a lot of

602
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,960
overhead you don't need.
There's a lot of factors.

603
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,719
Well, and at the same time, I
think our industry is 1 where a

604
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,639
lot of those things are not
prioritized.

605
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,080
And so, you know, one of the
things we learned during COVID

606
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:06,080
was the lack of having a, Oh my
God, I'm losing the word that

607
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,400
forgetting to keep money on the
side.

608
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,440
What what is that called?
Again?

609
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,800
I'm losing my mind.
Reserve your yeah.

610
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,200
Reserve, reserve.
There's the name, you know,

611
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,320
forgetting about keeping a
reserve.

612
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,520
And and so, you know, in
business one O 1, they teach you

613
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,800
maybe to have three months or
six months of reserve.

614
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,720
And obviously COVID taught us,
you know, that you need 36

615
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,200
months of reserve or whatever it
is, which is not reasonable, of

616
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,240
course.
But you know, I know in our

617
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:39,280
industry we've had some really
bad habits and that being one of

618
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,440
them.
But also like, you know, I

619
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:50,440
remember VER when they lacked
like inventory control

620
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,200
management software and they
were doing gazillions of dollars

621
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,160
in revenue.
But ask them how many of a

622
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,840
particular projector they had
and where they were.

623
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,000
They couldn't tell you.
Like if it's sitting on the

624
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,720
warehouse floor, I can rent it
out.

625
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,160
Basically.
If it's not, I can't rent it

626
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,320
out.
And I'm sure it wasn't quite

627
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,480
that bad, but I know that in
doing business with them, there

628
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,840
were always those types of, of
issues where, you know, I've,

629
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,760
I've dealt with so many
companies that haven't had, they

630
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,080
have rental software, but they
don't have any inventory

631
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,760
management.
So at any given moment, you

632
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160
know, they can't tell you how
many of something they have,

633
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,880
what they paid for the last one
versus the first one and all

634
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,400
kinds of stuff like that.
So I think as a as an industry

635
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,320
as a whole, we haven't been that
disciplined.

636
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,000
Yeah.
I mean it, it makes great sense.

637
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,280
And you know, I'm kind of
reminded of the the chat we were

638
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,880
having about sort of that part
of the industry, that state of

639
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,160
the industry and, and what's the
mood right now?

640
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,680
What is that kind of feeling
like?

641
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,560
And I think it is divided for
some of the reasons that you

642
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,840
said.
You know, when we think about

643
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,680
companies that are primarily
equipment dealers handling box

644
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,080
sales, I would say they're
feeling pretty exposed at the

645
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,000
moment.
They're feeling more

646
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,720
commoditized than they would
like.

647
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,960
The results in 2024 showed this
and caused them to push more

648
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,720
into service offerings.
But they were, this was a new

649
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:18,360
effort for them in 24.
They'd they'd been accustomed to

650
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,080
sort of just doing box sales in
the past.

651
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,760
And I would put dry hair rental
companies in this as well.

652
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,280
You know, there's some real
inherent challenges to being

653
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,040
that limited in terms of what
they could offer to the market

654
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,840
that unfortunately has had a
huge amount of competition.

655
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,120
Now whether or not that evolved
into design and build projects

656
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,680
with a focus on more relational
and less transactional had a

657
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,720
huge impact on businesses and
and in my opinion will.

658
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,080
So as we think about sort of
where the market sits right now,

659
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,480
those businesses I wouldn't
label as in crisis, but I would

660
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,080
say that most of them aren't
hitting their growth budget year

661
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,480
over year.
Now I do want to be clear that a

662
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,720
lot of the companies that I've
seen that are working in that

663
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:04,240
space actually did grow their
EBITDA year over year from 23 to

664
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,320
24.
That being said, they didn't

665
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,920
enjoy the budgeted level of
growth that they had targeted to

666
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,880
achieve in that period.
So that was challenging.

667
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,440
So they grew.
They just didn't grow as much as

668
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,240
they expected to.
Exactly.

669
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:20,720
Exactly.
And now by contrast, the

670
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,480
providers in the live evidence
sector that had a strong balance

671
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,520
of Labor and equipment provision
that were supported by some

672
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,440
design build construction
capability did a lot better and

673
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,320
they were clear standouts.
There it was.

674
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,840
It was a way for them to de
commoditize their offering.

675
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,160
And in my opinion, it worked and
it's going to continue to work.

676
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,600
When I think about those
companies, you know, that we're

677
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,680
sort of talking about in the,
you know, the sub 25,000,000

678
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,880
sector.
And I, and actually I would say

679
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,360
it's even true of the larger
matrix organizations too, and

680
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,600
the 1 billion pluses.
They saw a lot of opportunity

681
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,960
and growth in that design and
build aspect of what they could

682
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,760
be doing with the gear they
might already own or already be

683
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,040
dealers with.
And, and so I, I think that's

684
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,480
going to be really an important
feature for people to look at

685
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,280
going from.
Yeah, yeah.

686
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:19,480
Well, and you know, another
thing that I seem to have

687
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,960
learned over the past couple of
years especially is that it, it

688
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:28,200
appears like almost like the the
ball, the the problem is moving

689
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,560
around the room.
So, you know, like for a period

690
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,480
of time you've got an inventory
problem, you know, you've got a

691
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:41,160
lot of customers that are asking
for X and you have Y and you've

692
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,200
got too much money into Y
because the price on Y has come

693
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,120
down.
And so now you got to unload YS

694
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,080
below what you paid for them and
buy a bunch of XS so that you

695
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,000
can capitalize on these these
opportunities.

696
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,200
And then you go and start to go
after these opportunities and

697
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,600
you realize the margins have
come way down on them.

698
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,480
Or, you know, all of a sudden
there's a shortage of capital in

699
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,320
the market or all of a sudden
there's some other problem in

700
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,640
the market.
And it just feels to me like it,

701
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,280
you know, it's a moving target
as far as trying to nail down,

702
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,520
you know, what my challenges are
like.

703
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,840
I know one of the questions I've
always asked on the podcast,

704
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,520
especially while we were going
through the sort of.

705
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:31,000
Post COVID mayhem was, you know,
inventory or people like what's

706
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,160
your bigger problem?
And the answer was always either

707
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,760
both or or it depends what week
you asked me.

708
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,880
You know, so like again, when
you're talking about less

709
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,840
sophisticated businesses,
perhaps in the five to 10 or $15

710
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,520
million range, who, you know,
they have software they have,

711
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,360
they might not have a CFO, they
might not have a COO, They might

712
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:01,200
not have, you know, sort of that
financial modelling or business

713
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,240
modelling stuff that that larger
companies would have.

714
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,040
They don't have a board.
They don't have maybe have

715
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,320
advisors like you who can guide
them on some of these things.

716
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,600
So how do they navigate?
Like how do they you know?

717
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,720
How do they know which problem
to solve and when?

718
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,360
In a sense I guess is what I'm
asking.

719
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,520
Yeah, I mean, it's a great
question and there's been a lot

720
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,040
of leadership whiplash is the
way that I sort.

721
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,360
Of said yeah.
And, and it's, you know, the

722
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,920
ball moving around the room.
Absolutely.

723
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,680
It's hard to know what the
priority is on any given day.

724
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,480
And I would say it's been
exacerbated by the fact that we

725
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,920
had so many executive leaders,
whether you're ACEO or a founder

726
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,840
SAT above the business and we're
a little more future looking.

727
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,880
But as the pandemic hit, they
became more tactical.

728
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,080
They had to work in the business
by necessity and they haven't

729
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,160
extricated themselves from that.
So they they've kind of put

730
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,360
themselves in a situation where
now they are relied upon as a

731
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,840
daily operator in their business
and they have not put together.

732
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,240
A plan.
To get back to being founder or

733
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:15,640
CEO in a more strategic future
looking way.

734
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,960
And, and why I think that's
really important is because you

735
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,520
were talking about how it
affects the different issues.

736
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,480
You know, what about the labor,
what about the equipment?

737
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,880
The one person in an
organization that affects every

738
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,400
department is the leader, is the
CEO, is the founder, right?

739
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,840
Every decision they make affects
the company universally and then

740
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,400
it gets obviously executed by
any of their department heads.

741
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,480
And and so I think there's
really there's.

742
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,880
Three questions I would.
Say, for any founder or CEO to

743
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,960
ask themselves if they're
finding that they're in a

744
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,000
position where maybe they're
they're feeling a little bit

745
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,600
overwhelmed or maybe they're
something doesn't feel right.

746
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:57,000
Ask yourself three things.
Number one is, does my schedule

747
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,280
have more tactical action items
than strategic future planning

748
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,720
items?
Yes or no?

749
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,360
Do I have?
More than seven.

750
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,840
Direct reports and the third
question.

751
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,000
Is have my.
Direct reports indicated to me

752
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,480
that I appear overwhelmed.
Or am I canceling calls with

753
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,360
them frequently?
If you say yes to any one of

754
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,520
those and if you say yes to all
three, especially get somebody

755
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,680
to walk.
Alongside that, what?

756
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,680
Do you think the sweet spot is?
For for founders, CEOs, as far

757
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,560
as director reports, how many
should they have or how many

758
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,520
should they not have?
What's the break point?

759
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,880
You know I, I from.
Experientially, I would say if

760
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,760
they all have different titles
and functions, 5 to 7 is really

761
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,840
what I've seen people be able to
effectively manage when you get

762
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,440
north of seven, and again,
especially if they have

763
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,360
different roles, it's going to
be really difficult to manage.

764
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,880
If for instance, though, you
have maybe regional territories

765
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,160
where it's 3 or 4 territories
under different people, but

766
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,520
they're officially doing the
same job, that can be easier to

767
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,360
manage because you're not
measuring different metrics,

768
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,360
right?
You're measuring the same

769
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,120
metrics.
You're just measuring them

770
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,200
across maybe a few different
direct reports is what I prefer.

771
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,720
But I think that's really
important.

772
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,040
And you know, to your question
on how do founders think about

773
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,080
those kind of things, I think I
think first you have to sort of

774
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,080
self assess it.
You know, does this sound like

775
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,880
me?
Does do I feel overwhelmed?

776
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,640
Do I feel like maybe some of
these things are happening?

777
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,760
If so, the choices.
I'm making universally.

778
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,880
Affecting the organization of
what I'm doing.

779
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,280
Am I creating a situation?
Unintentionally?

780
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,400
Of course, but a whiplash
situation inside my own

781
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,360
organization to say, OK, today
labor is more important, let's

782
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,400
put our efforts and energy into
strategies around labor.

783
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,560
And then the next week, again to
your point, no, no, no, it's

784
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,720
about equipment.
We need to hurry up and sell

785
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,120
some equipment and retired off
the books and buy some new

786
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,840
things.
And, and what happens ultimately

787
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,840
is that you wind up
destabilizing the very thing

788
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,800
that you're trying to protect.
That's a great point.

789
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,280
I, I mean, I just think that's
such a, a different dynamic

790
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,800
depending on the size of your
business.

791
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,040
Because, you know, for example,
like for a small company, a

792
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,720
$5,000,000 company who needs
equipment to do a job that

793
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,280
they've committed to doing and
suddenly the bank doesn't want

794
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,720
to give them the credit to get
that equipment.

795
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,560
You know, that can be a
devastating issue versus a

796
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,960
larger business.
And you know, I'm not belittling

797
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,360
anyone's problems against anyone
else's because, you know, like

798
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,120
one thing I learned in business
is, is if you want to make more

799
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,680
money, solve bigger problems
basically.

800
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:46,800
But to a small to $1,000,000
business owner not being able to

801
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,880
get the line of credit to put
those lights out with, you know,

802
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,360
Weezer or some smaller act than
Weezer.

803
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,600
I can't think of anyone.
But, you know, you've committed

804
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,400
to that act.
You've committed to the lighting

805
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,800
designer or to the production
manager or whatever.

806
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,360
And now you suddenly can't get
the gear because, you know,

807
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,880
either you got stiffed by the
supplier because they gave them

808
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,360
to somebody bigger than you or
your bank isn't going to give

809
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,560
you the money or whatever it is.
Like that's a major problem

810
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:20,880
versus the big company who might
be working on $100 million line

811
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,400
or a $200 million line.
You know, that's going to solve

812
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,600
a lot more problems.
It's going to go across the

813
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,680
entire business and solve a lot
of problems probably for the

814
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,120
next 12 or 18 or 24 months.
Not just I need to get these

815
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,080
lights out on Weezer this week
or else I'm dead.

816
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,320
Like I'm so done, you know, so
different.

817
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,120
Dynamics.
Of course.

818
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,680
Because I it's that's.
Such a great.

819
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,960
Example, because I literally had
this come up with a client who

820
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,520
was feeling really trapped into
a space where they had good

821
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,960
opportunity they couldn't get
the capital to, to fund getting

822
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,640
the equipment they needed to put
out on projects.

823
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,840
And I think one of the biggest
challenges that that especially

824
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,120
smaller companies sub 25,000,000
do run into that we're talking

825
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:11,640
about is when you get in the
mindset that you have all the

826
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,920
answers for your company and
everybody's coming to you and

827
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,840
asking you for all the final
answers.

828
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,040
We sort of just get in that rut
of thinking that will always be

829
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,600
the case, right?
Like, if I can't figure it out,

830
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,480
nobody can figure it out.
Yeah.

831
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,320
And I, And to that I would say,
please challenge yourself to

832
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,320
think that might not be true.
Be open to the possibility that

833
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,640
there might be a way to get to.
Yes.

834
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,600
It's just you don't know what it
is because you haven't

835
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,480
experienced it.
So I literally had a group that

836
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,960
came with that exact problem.
And the way that we wound up

837
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,320
solving that problem was we
needed to forge a partnership

838
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,600
with another group that had a
lot of equipment on the shelves

839
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,440
that we knew had low asset
utilization.

840
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,040
They just weren't renting it to
the level that we wanted or that

841
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,840
they wanted and and so the the
group.

842
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,880
That I was working.
With said, well, yeah, but you

843
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,280
know, we, they're not going to
just let us have it for like 6

844
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,560
months.
And I said, you don't know that.

845
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,400
You're just probably not talking
to the right person to say

846
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,200
here's the revenue model that
I'm working with, here's the

847
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,720
opportunity I have.
Do you want to participate in

848
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:15,000
this because you have the gear
and I have the contract.

849
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,640
Let's figure this out.
And And at the end of the day,

850
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,600
it did.
And you know what he spent on

851
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,080
purchase?
Nothing 0.

852
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:27,120
You know, and it was just a.
Matter of saying OK, how does

853
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,920
this how does this math look for
both of us how do we both make

854
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,760
money in this equation and I
need a ton of gear and I need it

855
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,960
for like 12 week the 12 week
tour.

856
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,000
How does that work?
And he, he was so locked into

857
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,560
thinking I have to buy all this
gear or so like I have to buy

858
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,160
it.
If I can't buy it, I can't do

859
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,480
the job.
And really actually all we

860
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,840
needed to do was find somebody
that had the gear that they

861
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,240
desperately wanted to rent and
get them together with the

862
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:53,720
person that had the contract and
negotiate a reasonable deal that

863
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:55,200
solved both of their problems.
And it did.

864
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:57,680
And they both made money.
So but it's it's still weird

865
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,600
because.
I think as a business owner,

866
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,920
you're, you're expected by your
staff, the bank, your friends,

867
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,520
your family to be a genius on
all things.

868
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,000
Like you should just absolutely
know everything about

869
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,600
everything.
And as situations change and,

870
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,360
and you know, maybe you don't
have like, for example, the

871
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:22,120
average guy out there in a small
rental company doesn't know if

872
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:26,920
it makes more sense to buy or
rent that gear, cross rent that

873
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,320
gear.
They look at it and they go,

874
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:34,960
well, you know, it's 12 weeks at
$100 a week, that's 1200 bucks.

875
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,160
My purchase price is only 3000.
I'm paying for 1/3 of the price

876
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,920
of that gear on one rental like
it'd be stupid not to buy it.

877
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,640
Well, maybe not.
I mean, let's.

878
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,640
Maybe stretch that out a little
past those 12 weeks and see what

879
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,120
ownership looks like, the cost
of ownership, the cost of money,

880
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,200
you know, what you could have
been doing with the money

881
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,560
instead of buying those, those
lighting fixtures or whatever.

882
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,760
So I mean, there's, there's this
perceived level of expertise on

883
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,760
all things.
And you know, I know I've done

884
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,240
pretty well at learning how to
navigate some very difficult

885
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:14,400
waters and some some really nice
calm waters as well.

886
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,360
But I've bumped my head 1000
times on things that I just

887
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,720
didn't know anything about.
I didn't know, I didn't have the

888
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:25,840
education or, or, you know,
experience to be able to

889
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:31,200
understand that I was stepping
into, you know, dog shit like 20

890
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,480
times in my career.
And, and then just by the time

891
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,160
you stepped in it, it was like,
Oh my God, you know, what's that

892
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,320
smell that Utah that didn't mean
that, that you yeah.

893
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:48,440
And so I don't know, like it's,
it's, it's always, don't get me

894
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:52,160
wrong, business ownership for me
and, and being ACEO and being an

895
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:53,880
entrepreneur is the greatest
thing in the world.

896
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,440
You know, I'm entirely
unemployable, I think at this

897
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,280
point.
But still, like some days you

898
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,680
just go, you know why didn't?
I see that coming.

899
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,760
You know you don't have eyes in
52 different locations around

900
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,480
your head, right?
Like, yeah, you got.

901
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,040
Blind spots all.
All business owners have blind

902
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,280
spots.
You know the president has blind

903
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,880
spots.
Let's current president decide.

904
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,080
Any president you know has blind
blind spots.

905
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,760
Billionaires have blind spots.
It, it happens, it's just when

906
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:32,200
you're $1,000,000 company
dealing with a very small set of

907
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,520
resources, capital, inventory,
whatever, you can't make

908
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,640
$1,000,000 mistakes.
You just can't.

909
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,120
You could make $20,000 mistakes
occasionally, not very often,

910
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:44,600
but you can make them
occasionally.

911
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,480
But you can't make $1,000,000
mistake because that's going to

912
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,080
put you out of business.
It's going to end your, your,

913
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,600
your whole thing, whatever
you're doing, right?

914
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,600
Well, that's, that's it.
And that's.

915
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:55,640
You.
Know why I was saying, I think

916
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,760
it's very consequential that
size of business is?

917
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,600
It will dictate.
Whether you get to the next

918
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,880
level or not, your ability to
navigate what you don't know.

919
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,200
And I mean, for all of us,
right?

920
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,520
And all of us humans are really,
most of us are pretty bad.

921
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:14,960
It's it's self-assessment,
right?

922
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,880
We look at something, we go, I'm
great at that and somebody else

923
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,800
goes layer it up.
But let me ask you an.

924
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,040
Even simpler.
Question So like let's say I'm a

925
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,560
$3,000,000 business and I can
see signs that I'm going to grow

926
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:32,080
to, you know, here in 2025 I'm
going to grow to $5,000,000.

927
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:36,040
You know, how do I know?
Like are there alarm bells or

928
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,600
anything that go off that say
that I'm going to either run out

929
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:46,760
of knowledge, skill set, you
know, experience or capital or

930
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,240
inventory or whatever?
Like how do I know what I don't

931
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:52,200
know?
I would.

932
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,000
Say if you're.
Seeing that you think you could

933
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,920
grow more than 20% year over
year, that should raise a flag.

934
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,920
And the reason it should raise a
flag is because your business is

935
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,920
about to get hungrier than it's
ever been and it's going to

936
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,040
impact all of it.
It's going to impact staff, cash

937
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,800
flow, morale, potentially the
culture of what made you special

938
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,200
to begin with it it.
So I think you can intake, in my

939
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:22,640
experience, about 10 to 15% of
growth year over year and still

940
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,160
pretty much maintain.
It'll be a stretch, but you can

941
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,360
do it.
Once you start getting 20% or or

942
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,160
north, it gets really hard and
people get excited.

943
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,720
They go, Oh my gosh, we got
contracts.

944
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:33,800
We're going to be 100% year over
year.

945
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,480
Think about that.
That's going to be.

946
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,440
You know, there's some things
that are going to have to change

947
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,120
in that.
So that that's what I would say

948
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,880
for a simple metric, 20% year
over year.

949
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:45,840
If you've never experienced that
before, that's probably a good

950
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,880
time to to know that you might
need a little more experience or

951
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:54,000
might need a little more staff
or technical abilities weighing

952
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,320
in on that.
Well, I'm I'm a big.

953
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,440
Fan.
Of a book, and I can't remember

954
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,920
the name of it, but I think it's
called 10X is easier than 2X.

955
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:08,720
And the entire concept is to
grow a business 2X, meaning I'm

956
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:13,080
doing 5 million and I want to
grow to 10 million in whatever

957
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,000
period of time this year, in the
next two years, whatever it is.

958
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:24,000
Most businesses just have to
work harder to get from 5

959
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,480
million to 10 million, from
1,000,000 to 2 million.

960
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,560
Let's even make this easier.
To get from 1,000,000 to 2

961
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,920
million, all I really have to do
is is work twice as hard and

962
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,200
I'll get there.
I just have to do more of the

963
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,720
same stuff.
The same stuff, but more of it.

964
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,280
Put it that way, to get 10XI
have to think differently.

965
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,560
I have to, I have to really
reshape how I'm doing things

966
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,560
because I can't work 10 times as
hard.

967
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,480
I can't work 10 times as many
hours.

968
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:56,600
I can't just, you know, 10X my
output or my inputs expecting a

969
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,320
10X output.
So I have to.

970
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:03,080
Something has to change and
that's really where a lot of the

971
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,040
magic happens is when you really
rethink your entire business and

972
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,520
say, you know, like you get into
some like who, not how kinds of

973
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,120
things too.
You know, it's not me that's

974
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,920
going to do everything that's
going to get us from 1,000,000

975
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,120
to 10 million.
Now I need to rely on some other

976
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,480
people.
What do those people in skill

977
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,200
sets look like, right?
Like do.

978
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:25,840
You do you agree with that kind
of a?

979
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,080
Philosophy I I do, and actually.
Those three questions I

980
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,640
mentioned really drive into some
of that stuff.

981
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,920
You know, do I have more
tactical things on my schedule

982
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,240
than strategic ones?
How many direct?

983
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:41,520
Reports do I have.
It's it, it speaks to the aspect

984
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:46,600
of am I trying to just work
harder and control more stuff or

985
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,520
am I repositioning my thinking
to achieve much bigger growth

986
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:55,400
there?
And, and as a part of that, one

987
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,040
of the, the, the key signs too
is that people go back to what

988
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,040
they know.
So if for instance, you feel

989
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,760
like you're in a spot where I
want to grow, I want to, I want

990
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,680
to be able to to do the 10X type
approach, but.

991
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:11,840
You're in that.
Space where you say I just don't

992
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,040
have time for a strategic call
today I I.

993
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,680
I would challenge.
That to say you should make time

994
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,960
because if you don't have time,
it means you're just continuing

995
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,080
to think in the same thought
patterns and to rescue in the

996
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,480
way that's comfortable for you,
for the business.

997
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,280
Well, and I'm sure you've done
this A. 100 times because this

998
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,920
is your gig as a consultant, but
I know with friends of mine who

999
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,160
have come to me and asked like
there's been a couple of fairly

1000
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:44,040
specific types of questions. 1
is that I can't, like I'm

1001
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,560
growing my business from
1,000,000 to 2 million, but I

1002
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,960
can't afford the inventory that
I need or the people that I need

1003
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,760
to get it from 1,000,000 to 2
million.

1004
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,760
And that's a fairly easy
discussion because you know, the

1005
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,160
inventory is going to make you
more money, the people are going

1006
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,240
to make you more money.
Where's the issue?

1007
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:04,160
Like the people are going to
take work that you're probably

1008
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,080
doing today because your
company's transitioning out of

1009
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,080
everything, relying on you into
having other people around you

1010
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,920
as a structure around you that
takes on that additional work

1011
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,720
and allows you to grow the
company even larger.

1012
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:26,080
But you know, I, I mean, I just
find that, you know, and then.

1013
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,960
The other question is.
Is things like, you know, I

1014
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:33,920
can't, I don't have time to, to
do all of these things I need to

1015
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:35,640
do.
And I'll start asking people

1016
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,600
questions about what exactly
they're doing, you know, so

1017
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,120
where are you spending all your
time?

1018
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,240
Well, you know, when I first
start out in the beginning of

1019
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,560
the day, you know, I go through
100 emails that are coming.

1020
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,840
You know, fifty of them are spam
and then the other 50 are, are

1021
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,600
just, you know, shows that we're
going to be doing over the next

1022
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,840
couple of weeks that people have
questions about them.

1023
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:03,320
And so I think first, you know,
like 100 emails probably doesn't

1024
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:08,520
warrant you getting a, you know,
like a, an assistant.

1025
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,960
But if it's 500 emails or
something like that and you're

1026
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,600
spending three hours going
through these 500 emails, you

1027
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,040
could get an assistant for very
little money, especially if you

1028
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,000
go to, you know, the Philippines
or something like that.

1029
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,440
And, and you get a, an
assistant, you can get very good

1030
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:28,360
ones for, you know, 5 or $6.00
an hour that can get through

1031
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,000
your e-mail and respond and do
all kinds of things very, very

1032
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,160
well, very efficiently.
And that frees up your time to

1033
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,120
do that next level of stuff.
But you know, you get beyond

1034
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,640
that and they start getting into
things like, well, you know, I

1035
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,480
had to go on Canva and create a
couple of diagrams that I need

1036
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,920
for this meeting that I'm doing
tomorrow.

1037
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,200
OK, So you know, there's this
thing called Fiverr and it's

1038
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,880
called Fiverr for a reason.
You can pay somebody 5 bucks to

1039
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,680
create that diagram that you
need.

1040
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,560
And of course, now as you know,
there's AI that can do it as

1041
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,080
well.
And so, you know, the only, the

1042
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:08,280
only areas where I find that you
need to sort of look away from

1043
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:13,080
the cost versus benefit sort of
ideas is when it gets down to

1044
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,120
family or just doing things that
you really love to do or need to

1045
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,880
do for health or things like
that, like going to the gym.

1046
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,040
You're never going to put a
value on going to the gym.

1047
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,840
You're not going to put a value
on going to your kids birthday

1048
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,520
party or going to watch their
school play or whatever.

1049
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:28,960
Right.
You're not going to say, oh,

1050
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,720
well, I could pay an assistant
to do that.

1051
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,640
No, of course not.
You know, first of all, you'll

1052
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,440
be divorced, your kids will hate
you, all of those things, right?

1053
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:41,760
So, you know, I, I find we
business owners tend to be our

1054
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,880
own worst enemy because we think
first of all, we think we're the

1055
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,240
smartest people in the room and,
and therefore we need to do

1056
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,640
everything like, if I want it
done right, I better do it

1057
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,520
myself.
That mentality, right?

1058
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:58,440
How many businesses have you
seen that destroyed I, I?

1059
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,400
Would say quite a.
Lot, yeah, and.

1060
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,600
You know, ironically.
Experientially, I would.

1061
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:12,640
Say 90% of business owners or CE
OS say I don't need help seeing

1062
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,480
blind spots, I don't need help
coming up with ideas.

1063
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,080
I don't need help talking about
big changes in the organization.

1064
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:24,680
And yet almost 100% of them will
say, yeah, you know what, that

1065
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,080
was really valuable time if they
can get connected with somebody

1066
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,400
who partner with them in that
journey.

1067
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,960
And, you know, whether that's a
mentor or an advisor, whoever

1068
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,560
sits in that space with them.
So that statistic alone tells me

1069
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,280
we're really bad at self
assessing what our needs are and

1070
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,600
and what we think we have to do.
So, So yeah, I mean,

1071
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,600
statistically we have some
evidence that says it's far more

1072
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:55,040
people benefiting from from
asking questions than those that

1073
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,840
think they have all the answers
for sure.

1074
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,160
Well, you know what too like.
I think another way to say it

1075
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,760
is, is when you're going from
zero to $1,000,000 as a

1076
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:09,480
business, I think the general
philosophy or, or sort of

1077
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:13,120
guiding light is to say yes to
everything, take on everything,

1078
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,520
say yes to absolutely everything
you can.

1079
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,120
If you want to grow, you have to
really learn to say no a lot.

1080
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,000
And, and it becomes much harder
than saying yes.

1081
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,960
It's hard to say no, you know,
to a customer, to an employee,

1082
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:31,200
to an opportunity to, you know,
and I listen to so many

1083
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,240
different, believe it or not,
you're not the only consultant

1084
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,200
that I listen to and pay
attention to.

1085
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,960
So I listen to other people and
they always talk about like, you

1086
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,840
know, you need to, you need to
sort of narrow the rails on your

1087
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,160
business.
Like if you're trying to solve

1088
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:51,240
for 50 different problems out
there, 50 different things like,

1089
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,320
well, first we're a SAS company
and then we're a rental company.

1090
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:55,600
And then we're also this
company.

1091
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,840
We're also like, you know, you
know how many rental companies

1092
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,600
I've spoken to who are software
companies, like they've created

1093
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,960
their own SAS system that they
then go out and market to other

1094
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,040
companies.
And then they've created some

1095
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:12,080
software for lighting software
that's like a Wizzywig kind of

1096
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,040
thing, but with a special little
thing.

1097
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,120
And they go out and market that
to other.

1098
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:20,160
And when you start digging
through it, you go OK.

1099
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,280
So how much are you?
Making on the lighting software,

1100
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,040
well, you know, we don't really
make any money on it.

1101
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:29,080
Like, I think we've sold maybe
$5000 over the last two years.

1102
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:31,640
And how much time do you spend
on that?

1103
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,200
You know, And when you start
digging through it, the problems

1104
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,760
become so obvious.
Yeah.

1105
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,240
Oh yeah.
The organic growth over the.

1106
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,400
Years of just the things that
happen and that you sort of say

1107
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,120
this is a part of the business
that we do without going back to

1108
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,800
curate that list and and check
it and say, yeah, but should we

1109
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,240
be doing that or yeah, we should
be doing it?

1110
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,640
What margin should we start
saying no AT?

1111
01:02:54,840 --> 01:03:00,840
And there are some really good
examples around that there.

1112
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,000
There was a group that I
recently worked with.

1113
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:09,000
They were troubled by having
margins that were very low for

1114
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:14,320
what they were doing and within
a period of about seven months,

1115
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:16,800
we 7.
X the margin.

1116
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,440
And it didn't take anything
exotic.

1117
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,120
I mean it, it was really a
matter of understanding that

1118
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,760
customer segmentation.
So who they thought their

1119
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,080
customer was wasn't actually who
their greatest impact customer

1120
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,400
was.
They didn't properly tell the

1121
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:37,160
story of how they were servicing
customers and what their

1122
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,320
distinction was.
So they had to lead with low

1123
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,800
price.
So no surprise they couldn't

1124
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,400
protect a margin because they
were a low cost leader just to

1125
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:50,560
get any business in the door.
So to go from that sort of model

1126
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,200
to seven months later having
polished marketing materials,

1127
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,000
the same group of customers
essentially coming in, but now

1128
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,960
those same customers are paying
three and four times what they

1129
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,640
were paying before because the
cost structure reduction that's

1130
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,760
amazing.
EBITDA is 7 XI mean it's yeah,

1131
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,560
you know the interesting.
Thing about all of that, like

1132
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,280
first is one of the things I
learned along the way is you

1133
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,240
have to have the courage to to
raise your prices.

1134
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,400
You know, you got to be willing
and have the courage to raise

1135
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,960
your prices and you should
always, always be looking to

1136
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:24,800
raise your prices.
It should be a part of your

1137
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,240
business, you know, and and I
forget what the second point

1138
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,360
was, but it was a really
important one and I'll come back

1139
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,000
to it.
But you know, like it's just,

1140
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,680
it's we're always under selling
ourselves.

1141
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:40,800
We always think our problem are,
are the problem we solve is

1142
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,360
worth less money than what we're
actually charging for it.

1143
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,880
And we're just lucky to be
making any margin at all.

1144
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,640
And that's just silly, you know.
And again, I mean, the, the

1145
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:53,520
focus part of it, you know, you,
you mention it by margin, but I,

1146
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:58,040
I just think it, the whole idea
like even if you're making 50%

1147
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,880
margins on a new line of
business, I think the thing you,

1148
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,480
you need to be doing, like focus
is a big word for a lot of

1149
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,080
businesses.
They think they're focused on 10

1150
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,080
different things.
Like these are our 10 markets

1151
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:14,240
that we focus on.
Well, focus means that you would

1152
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,560
go from here down to here.
That's focused, right?

1153
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:22,280
And so I think instead of the
wider you can go, the narrower

1154
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:27,240
you need to go and then figure
out what's really working for

1155
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:31,800
you and then do more of that.
Like people are too quick to go,

1156
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,080
OK, we're doing this really well
and how I want to do this, and

1157
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:36,400
then I want to do this after
that.

1158
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,280
And then we're going to do this
one up here too.

1159
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,160
And you know, you end up losing
sight of what you did really

1160
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,880
well to begin with.
And I know I've done this 20

1161
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:49,280
times in my career.
So I've banged my head a lot and

1162
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:51,720
made mistakes.
And therefore I can say that,

1163
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:56,440
and I know it's true, but you
know, focus is a really powerful

1164
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,640
word and, and it's can be very
powerful in a business,

1165
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,400
especially when you're small,
like the, I think the smaller

1166
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,440
you are, the narrower that focus
needs to be.

1167
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,200
Uh huh.
I.

1168
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,640
I agree, I think if you have.
More than five priorities, you

1169
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,640
probably have none in terms of
what business is doing and

1170
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,120
events.
It's kind of hard, right,

1171
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,880
because we have glitzy shiny
objects to chase.

1172
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,480
There's cool stuff in what we're
doing.

1173
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,520
You know, you think about some
of these tours or the events out

1174
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,240
there, what's happening with
film and TV markets now.

1175
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:29,320
It it there's some really cool
stuff happening both technology

1176
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,040
wise and just in terms of the
finished product, you know,

1177
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:37,040
whether it's on a stage or on a
tour or, or or on TV.

1178
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,680
And so I think it attracts that,
you know, you get a little taste

1179
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,040
of that and you go, wow, yeah,
we did this segment really well.

1180
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,560
We want to do more of that and
let's do more of this and that

1181
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,480
and you start bolting on other
things and it's not always the

1182
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:49,800
best idea.
No.

1183
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,600
Well, I mean.
One real world example, I know

1184
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:56,680
so many small rental companies
who are lighting companies and

1185
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,800
saw this flashy shiny thing
called LED screens and went and

1186
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:06,160
got bank lines to to buy these
incredibly expensive, you know,

1187
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:11,200
2.9 mil LED walls.
And then realized that, you

1188
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,640
know, the price that they
thought was $400.00 a tile is 40

1189
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,400
bucks a tile.
And the return on investment

1190
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,400
isn't very good.
And the cost of ownership is

1191
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:25,600
really high.
And they're constantly updating

1192
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:29,640
this stuff to where now it's 1.9
mil, now it's .9 mil.

1193
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,160
Now the processing just got
better and everybody wants that

1194
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,360
one instead.
And, and you know, the cost of

1195
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:40,840
ownership and video in general,
like is, is that flashy, bright,

1196
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,760
shiny thing that every lighting
company wants to expand into

1197
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,240
because they're like, well, we
already got a crew out on the

1198
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,920
show site.
It's not that hard to learn

1199
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,080
these extra little bits where,
you know, we're, we're rigging a

1200
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,880
lighting package or we're
rigging a video package.

1201
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:56,960
Doesn't really make much
difference, right?

1202
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,320
Makes tons of sense.
But they're just entirely

1203
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,000
different focuses and entirely
different disciplines.

1204
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,960
So I I think that's a great
example.

1205
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,320
And I came to mind is that I
don't think they also thought

1206
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,080
that 15% of their inventory
would be down for repairs at any

1207
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:15,560
given time.
True that.

1208
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:17,319
Yeah, LED.
Tiles, yeah.

1209
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:18,800
No, very.
True.

1210
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,240
And so I know, I know several
companies who have sort of

1211
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:28,680
divested of their LED video
inventory because of exactly

1212
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:30,840
those reasons.
Like, first of all, it, it cost

1213
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,439
a lot more money than we
expected.

1214
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,040
The return was a lot less than
we expected.

1215
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,560
The downtime was a lot less than
we are, more than we expected.

1216
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,760
And the customers were more
demanding than we would have

1217
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,000
ever imagined.
You know, and it's just this

1218
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,160
constant evolution, you know,
it's like if you want to rent

1219
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:52,279
video projectors in your world,
in the AV business, if you want

1220
01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:58,080
to rent video projectors to, you
know, the Google conference or

1221
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,520
the Apple conference, this is
the latest state-of-the-art, you

1222
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:07,560
know, most incredible laser
projector, latest model, best

1223
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:11,439
lensing, all this stuff that's
150 grand or whatever.

1224
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:16,160
But if you want to put a video
projector on Weezer, you know,

1225
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:20,160
or on some slub act or something
and they just want some video on

1226
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,240
a screen next to the, you know,
for iMac or something.

1227
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,640
You can get away with a used,
you know, 10K or 12K projector

1228
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,200
that you're going to pay, you
know, nothing for.

1229
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,040
And it'll be fairly reliable and
you can sell it at the end of

1230
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,760
the show and get the same
nothing that you paid for it and

1231
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:39,880
it becomes a pretty profitable
experience.

1232
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:44,240
But even then, like should you
own a bunch of 10 or 12 K video

1233
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:47,720
projectors if that's not your
business, I think.

1234
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,080
One of the best questions a
small business can ask

1235
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:54,080
themselves is how do I do this
for zero out I and challenge

1236
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,360
yourself just even if it seems
completely in this industry.

1237
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,800
Yeah, and you?
And that's why motors, I mean,

1238
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,000
maybe you could rent.
Motors, but even then you got to

1239
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:06,800
get them certified and all that
stuff and you sure well it to me

1240
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,200
it's more.
About the thought process that

1241
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:10,880
that's it, I'm starting a trust
and motor.

1242
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:11,880
Company.
There you go.

1243
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:13,840
That's what I'm starting
Marcel's Trust and Motor

1244
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:17,480
Company.
Use a partner do you want it to

1245
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:19,840
be?
M&T or T&M or something, you

1246
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,200
know, trust and Motor Company.
Oh.

1247
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:25,280
Yeah, I think it's a good
discipline.

1248
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,200
I think it's a good.
Personal challenge when you're

1249
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:31,160
running a business that has
equipment aspects involved, how

1250
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,720
do I get access to equipment for
0 cost?

1251
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,680
And just all just thinking.
And maybe the answer is you

1252
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,720
can't and that and that might be
part of it.

1253
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,880
But what I've seen more often
than not, and it could be across

1254
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,160
all the, you know, all the
different pieces that you need,

1255
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,640
but just at least challenge that
thought for a moment because

1256
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,960
almost always you'll come away
with being able to find

1257
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,480
something that you could do for
a lot less.

1258
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:54,600
And then it just means you're
going to be a lot more

1259
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,080
profitable.
At the end of the day, focus on

1260
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,720
that relationship.
Don't focus on who owns the most

1261
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,600
gear in a big pile.
At the end of the day, I I don't

1262
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,760
think that's a that's a hard
game to win.

1263
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:04,720
Yeah.
Well, and gear ownership.

1264
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,280
Looks really sexy until, you
know, you got to pay for it and

1265
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,120
and you know.
Yeah.

1266
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,520
And then COVID happens and
you're stuck with a warehouse

1267
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:15,320
full of gear that's not worth
very much money to anyone.

1268
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:22,240
So switching gears a little bit,
like you, like me, have a.

1269
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,400
Unique business and that.
You get to talk to a lot of

1270
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,680
different people and you're very
neutral.

1271
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,480
So nobody's, you know,
intimidated or threatened to

1272
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:32,400
talk to you about their
business.

1273
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,920
Similar to mine, you know, gear
source.

1274
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:39,800
We get to we're, we're sort of
like, you know, Switzerland or

1275
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,960
whatever.
Like we, we really were not

1276
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,520
aligned with any particular
brand or manufacturer.

1277
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,040
We just want to help everybody,
you know.

1278
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:53,160
And so people will talk to me
quite openly, but same with you.

1279
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:59,040
And so are you like what's the
mood as far as as you're

1280
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,160
concerned in the inventory right
now?

1281
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:06,560
Like are you seeing people are
really super positive about 25

1282
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:12,200
or they're a little nervous or
it's just an extension of 24?

1283
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:14,480
Like what?
What are you seeing in general?

1284
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:17,200
Yeah.
I I think.

1285
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:23,600
I think people are really it, it
is a bit divided and I, I think

1286
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:28,320
like your source, you know, you,
you too think about how to help

1287
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,680
people save money, right?
And how to sort of be in that

1288
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,480
space of get what you need.
And, and so sort of in line

1289
01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:38,560
with, you know, with my
comments, I think that's, that's

1290
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,720
a really great place for people
to sort of stop and challenge,

1291
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:42,720
right?
Like they're not going to get to

1292
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:43,880
0.
It's just about challenging the

1293
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:47,600
thought process of like, instead
of only having the blinders on

1294
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,000
and thinking, OK, I must have, I
must have the highest price

1295
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,840
employee that only does these
things, or I must have only the

1296
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,200
brand new technology.
That's exactly this thing like

1297
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:58,600
think about other options,
right?

1298
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,720
Because they're out there and
and like your source, there's a

1299
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,680
phenomenal resource there to be
able to look at and and have

1300
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,280
those thoughts right and have a
good conversation about it.

1301
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,440
So I think I think that's a big
piece of it is, you know, people

1302
01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:15,320
are sort of looking around
IN25I.

1303
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:19,640
I am seeing that bit of whiplash
with people in the industry.

1304
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,720
Some of them had a good 24,
sure, their EBITDA was a little

1305
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,960
bit better and the revenue was a
bit better, but it didn't hit

1306
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,120
their budget target that they
were hoping for.

1307
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,840
And some of them feel OK about
that and they're like, hey, it's

1308
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,560
just the nature of it right now.
Other people have taken it

1309
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:39,040
really hard and they're, I won't
say declaring an emergency, but

1310
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,640
they're, you know, they're
feeling a lot more stress about

1311
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,920
that.
And, and I think part of it is

1312
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,280
self-inflicted.
You know, we have to look at

1313
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:54,160
things in my opinion less from a
standpoint of the number on the

1314
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:56,960
page is always reasonable.
Sometimes the number on the page

1315
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:01,000
is not always reasonable and
you'll know that because the

1316
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,640
market conditions won't allow it
to be reasonable.

1317
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,520
If the market, if there are
outside factors that you can

1318
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,240
quantify, that you can point to,
that you can say, yes, these are

1319
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:13,520
objective real reasons why we
didn't hit that target, then I

1320
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,960
think that's worth having a
different conversation about

1321
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,200
sort of, you know, holding that
differently.

1322
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,840
If you really truly didn't hit
the targets, but the opportunity

1323
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,240
was there, your win rate was
crap, you had a lot of issues

1324
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,160
messaging your customers, that's
a different issue.

1325
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:30,880
And and so that you know, I
think that's something different

1326
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,280
to think about.
South in 25.

1327
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:36,000
Here's what I see.
You still have a lot of those

1328
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:40,320
post pandemic, much smaller
companies that open to gear

1329
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,360
rental business in their garage
that are still out there.

1330
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,360
They're still freelancing.
There's less of them now, but

1331
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,520
they are still, you know,
they're still out there being

1332
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:53,720
able to serve the market and the
access to that has had an impact

1333
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,960
on mid and large players in some
markets.

1334
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,000
So I think that's.
Something that's.

1335
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,240
Still being played out.
I think the other thing that

1336
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:07,800
we're seeing in 25 is if you
are, as I was saying before,

1337
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,720
heavily focused in just gear
rental or gear sales and you're

1338
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:16,240
not in a situation like like a
gear source, but you're somebody

1339
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,240
who has a brick and mortar, you
have all the stuff sitting on

1340
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,040
the shelf.
Are you really thinking about

1341
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,320
what?
What the sweet?

1342
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,840
Spot of that.
Inventory level should be or do

1343
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:32,920
you still have 50 LED walls that
you know that are not going out

1344
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:37,560
and maybe should be redeployed,
you know that that be that

1345
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,760
should be moved on.
And I and so I think those are

1346
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:43,120
that's a key part of it.
The flip side of that is I'm

1347
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,400
seeing companies that are in
that design build space that are

1348
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,000
doing a lot of permanent install
work.

1349
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,640
They're doing, they're doing
front end design and new

1350
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:53,720
construction and that market is
accelerating dramatically.

1351
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,240
So that's why I say I think
there's a bit of whiplash for

1352
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,840
some some organizations that
came out of the pandemic and

1353
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:03,120
you've got this sprinkling
right, of some executive leaders

1354
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,600
that are still in tactical mode
and haven't gone back to

1355
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,560
strategic mode.
You have some businesses that

1356
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,920
are still over capitalized that
are trying to figure out how to

1357
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:14,200
both right size their inventory
and get the different inventory

1358
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:16,480
that they need.
That's even more important.

1359
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,240
And then you've got the added
effect that you have the teams

1360
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:23,200
under them who are trying to
interact, but it's much more

1361
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,160
utility player now because you
you have your executive leader

1362
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,440
that's now working in the
business.

1363
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:30,320
And so by definition that
creates a utility player

1364
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,280
environment.
So I think I think that's sort

1365
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:35,440
of what I'm seeing right now.
Yeah, so.

1366
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:39,760
In general, though, would you
say that because I know?

1367
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,520
That like.
I'm hearing such a wide, you

1368
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:46,960
know, some people thought 2024
was the greatest year ever.

1369
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,240
I just had a conversation with a
very good friend of mine a

1370
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:55,080
couple of days ago that said it
was his, the last half of 2024

1371
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,280
was was a disaster.
It was just a complete disaster.

1372
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:03,520
And he's, you know, big time,
big time guy with a pretty large

1373
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,880
book of business and, you know,
just said it's a disaster.

1374
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:10,320
I'm hopeful for 25, but you
know, I don't see any miracles

1375
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,720
coming.
Little more negative I would say

1376
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:17,200
like, you know, believe it or
not, I mean, again, without

1377
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,560
getting political at all, you
know, I'm still hearing, you

1378
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:23,120
know, I'm holding on to my money
to see what this president is

1379
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:27,320
going to do.
You know, like I don't know

1380
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,880
about you.
I'm sure a lot of your clients,

1381
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,440
because I know the types of
clients that you deal with, but

1382
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:37,360
I have never changed anything
I'm doing in my business based

1383
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,480
on who the president is or what
they're doing.

1384
01:17:39,480 --> 01:17:42,880
Like I got to do what I got to
do regardless of what the

1385
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:48,920
president is going to do, right?
So if I'm heavily reliant on a

1386
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:53,160
particular market that is going
to be impacted by this president

1387
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,320
or this president, I'll pay a
lot more attention to that.

1388
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:00,400
But I think in general, if your
business was going to do $10

1389
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:05,000
million this year with Kamala as
the president, you're probably

1390
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,640
going to do $10 million this
year with Trump as the

1391
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:10,160
president.
Get on with it, You know what I

1392
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,440
mean?
Like it's probably going to be

1393
01:18:12,440 --> 01:18:14,360
about the same as it was the
other way.

1394
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,320
Again, certain markets I think
are going to be impacted a

1395
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:20,000
little differently.
I think some of the tech markets

1396
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:24,400
are probably going to see and
just wild profitability going

1397
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:27,720
forward because he's being very
supportive and very friendly to

1398
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:31,200
some of those and putting some,
you know legislation in place to

1399
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,360
help them to clear a path for
things like AI.

1400
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:38,520
But other markets are probably
not going to do as well because

1401
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:42,520
you know, he's maybe less
friendly to those markets or

1402
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,120
something.
But I think in general for our

1403
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:46,400
business that's not going to
have an impact.

1404
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,840
But you know, things like you,
you've mentioned a couple of

1405
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,120
Times Now dry higher I, you
know, I know a lot of people in

1406
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,240
the dry hire business and that.
Is a business that.

1407
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,320
Requires some strong nerves, you
know what I mean?

1408
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:06,240
Like not to react too quickly,
but not to react too slowly

1409
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,240
either, I guess because you're
sitting on just massive piles of

1410
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:11,840
inventory hoping that someone's
going to need it.

1411
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,400
And you know, you're not dealing
with end clients.

1412
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,040
You're you're basically on the
backs of the rest of our in

1413
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,520
industry, hoping that they're
doing well enough that they're

1414
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,200
going to need your inventory and
that also that manufacturers are

1415
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,640
doing well enough so they're not
going to be cutting deals like

1416
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,360
crazy, making it too easy for
those companies to buy

1417
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,080
inventory.
So now buying becomes a better

1418
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,720
solution than renting.
So a lot of different variables

1419
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:41,080
in there for sure.
Oh yeah.

1420
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,400
Absolutely.
I mean that customer value piece

1421
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,600
is really it's a challenging
balance to maintain because

1422
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,600
customers are really savvy.
The commoditized piece is tough,

1423
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,240
right?
The dry hire rental market is

1424
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,480
your customer expects you to
have the thing that they want

1425
01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:59,000
and if you don't have it, your
odds of renting it potentially

1426
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,960
go down dramatically because
it's a very transactional

1427
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:03,560
business.
Once you get more relational

1428
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:07,000
with it, now your customer might
be a bit more open to, you know,

1429
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,160
I don't have those movers, but I
have these movers and maybe you

1430
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,800
would consider that they have
the same features and certainly

1431
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,160
they're dry hire companies that
do that very successfully.

1432
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:17,200
But I I think that that's a.
You know, that's a key piece of

1433
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:21,520
it, it because in the absence of
having that, that relational

1434
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,080
focus there, you do wind up just
sort of filling the rider and,

1435
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:28,680
and in which case the lowest
price wins well, and.

1436
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:30,720
You've mentioned.
That one a couple times too, the

1437
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:32,680
lowest price thing.
And you know, the good thing

1438
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:38,200
about being the lowest price guy
or girl is that you don't have

1439
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:40,640
to do much work to to get the
sale.

1440
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:42,880
You know, you just have to make
sure that that price on your

1441
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,360
website is lower than everybody
else's and you're going to get

1442
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,960
the sale.
The bad news is someone's always

1443
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:49,520
going.
To find a way.

1444
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,880
To be lower than you.
And so it's also just as easy to

1445
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:56,120
lose the sale.
And the problem with being the

1446
01:20:56,120 --> 01:21:00,120
low price leader is you always
have to have the lowest price

1447
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:03,520
and make the lease margin.
And, you know, it's just not a

1448
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:06,160
business I want to be in, you
know, and I don't know why

1449
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:09,080
anybody would.
That's the least fun business

1450
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:12,240
I'd ever want to be in to be the
low price leader.

1451
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,080
Well, and it's.
It's kind of intuitive to.

1452
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,960
Trying to keep up with video and
lighting technologies and audio

1453
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,920
technologies that are that are
changing and customers know they

1454
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:22,360
want the newest and the best,
right.

1455
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:24,440
So it is.
It's kind of counterintuitive

1456
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:27,680
just to have a bunch of capital
outlay and then rent it for the

1457
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,320
absolute lowest price and have
no margin, only shorten cycle.

1458
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,200
Of when you can use it.
It's kind of yeah.

1459
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:37,360
Nonsense.
So what do you think, you know,

1460
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:41,360
aside from maybe, well, I guess
we don't really have supply

1461
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:46,000
chain issues anymore.
So what do you think the big

1462
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:51,720
challenges are this year for
companies in our industry?

1463
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:57,680
Yeah, I think, I think that.
Really.

1464
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:00,640
Challenging.
Themselves to think about what

1465
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:05,640
their unique values are, is
important this year.

1466
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:09,640
And the reason I say that is
having talked with a number of

1467
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:14,160
different organizations across
the industry and seeing that

1468
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:18,240
their approach to how they want
to be unique is, is also the

1469
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,520
approach to how many companies
say they want to be unique.

1470
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:26,120
So, so by definition, they're
sort of all evolving, but

1471
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:28,280
they're evolving in very similar
ways.

1472
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,400
Yeah.
And, and so you're not really

1473
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,160
setting yourself unique.
You're sort of at that point.

1474
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,400
I think the better way to say it
is you're evolving with the

1475
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:38,360
trends, right, which is, which
is great.

1476
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:42,320
And you should do that.
But to be unique in a space sort

1477
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:45,480
of sets you above and beyond in
a way that differentiates you

1478
01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:49,200
from the pack, right?
And so I I think being really.

1479
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:52,800
Honest.
About is what you're saying you

1480
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,520
want to do in 2025 with your
company?

1481
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:59,640
Is it really unique or are you
just evolving with the trends

1482
01:22:59,960 --> 01:23:02,240
and, and get really honest with
yourself about which one of

1483
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:03,920
those is?
And it's, there's, it's not a

1484
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:05,960
positive or a negative.
It's just, I think an awareness

1485
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:09,200
to be honest with yourself.
And, and if you say, OK, we're,

1486
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:14,320
we're keeping up with trends,
then know that you might still

1487
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:17,640
have exposure from somebody who
comes up with a unique solution

1488
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:20,680
that's still in your, your set
of companies.

1489
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:25,040
So I, I think be really aware of
that because I don't think this

1490
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:28,880
commoditized issue is going to
go away anytime soon.

1491
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:33,080
I, I think that that customers
are more interested than ever in

1492
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:38,560
new technologies and, and, and
what that looks like for, for

1493
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:41,880
them and being able to
thoughtfully redeploy gear or

1494
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:43,960
change gear.
There's companies that are

1495
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:48,000
serving markets that need
equipment that was popular a few

1496
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,200
years ago and they have clients
that want that.

1497
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:52,840
And so I think it's equally, I
think it's very important both

1498
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,120
sides, but be.
Really honest with yourself.

1499
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:58,960
About the customer that you are
trying to serve and you kind of

1500
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,720
hands to those you know really,
really narrow that focus.

1501
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,640
Don't try to serve all customers
all the way around.

1502
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,400
Really focus on who your
customer segments are.

1503
01:24:07,480 --> 01:24:11,000
Yeah, you got to exactly what I.
Was thinking is is the whole

1504
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:18,520
what do you call it?
ICP ideal customer persona, you

1505
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:22,760
know, really understanding
exactly who your ideal customer

1506
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:25,640
is.
And I think so many customers

1507
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:29,240
don't, you know, they just their
ideal customer is somebody who's

1508
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:35,520
got a, a need and a checkbook.
And, but what if you really knew

1509
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:39,520
what motivated your very, this
very narrow lane?

1510
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:43,760
What motivated those people to
want to do business with you or

1511
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:45,880
to want to do business with your
competitors?

1512
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:49,520
And what if you were able to,
again, just do more of that

1513
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,960
thing, whatever The thing is
that like feed them exactly what

1514
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,240
they want to eat.
And you can't do that on a wide

1515
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:58,240
audience.
You can only do it when you get

1516
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:02,600
really narrow on your audience
needs and that persona that that

1517
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,440
ideal persona of your customer,
because your customer is going

1518
01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:08,120
to be different than PR GS
customer.

1519
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,880
Then, you know, solo tech's
customer, then the next

1520
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,720
company's customer.
And you know, one of the, I

1521
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:18,080
think one of the superpowers of
the smaller businesses in our

1522
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:21,080
industry.
And I think they lost sight of

1523
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:22,760
this.
A lot of them lost sight of this

1524
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:28,720
is that I've always felt like
small businesses should do

1525
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:32,040
business with small businesses,
large businesses should do

1526
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:36,160
business with large businesses.
And when you start to mix those

1527
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:40,880
up, it becomes problematic.
So when PRG rents to a DJ who's

1528
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:46,520
doing a, you know, a bar mitzvah
this weekend, it's probably not

1529
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:49,840
going to be the user experience
that that DJ expected.

1530
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:53,080
He's not treated very well
potentially by PRG.

1531
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:57,520
And that's no slight on PRG.
It's just that his show is being

1532
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:03,600
loaded out at the same time as,
you know, Beyoncé and the Super

1533
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:07,840
Bowl, you know, and this DJ
wants to be treated special

1534
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,240
because he's spending $1000.
Like, that's a lot of money.

1535
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:14,240
You know, it's half my, it's
half what I'm taking in to do

1536
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:19,000
this show this weekend.
And so versus if you had a small

1537
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:23,800
like one or $2,000,000 lighting
company, they're probably going

1538
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:26,200
to know the guy's name.
They're going to see him drive

1539
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:27,680
up and they're going to go, oh,
there's Bob.

1540
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,000
I know he's doing a bar mitzvah
this weekend and he's renting

1541
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:33,560
some stuff from us and he's
going to be treated special.

1542
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:37,520
And so I'm not saying that that
DJ is going to become their

1543
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:41,520
ideal customer or anything, but
it's a better match.

1544
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,920
You know, it's, it's like, you
know, it's small business and

1545
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:48,280
small business and same thing
when a small company tries to do

1546
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:51,360
a show for Google or something,
they usually fall short either

1547
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:55,080
on, on personnel on gear, like
they don't have the latest

1548
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:57,280
greatest stuff.
They don't have enough of it.

1549
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:00,920
Their truck was too small to
meet up to the dock.

1550
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:05,360
You know, I mean, just all kinds
of different problems can occur

1551
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:08,640
because they don't belong there
necessarily, right?

1552
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:11,840
And so match.
It is a tough.

1553
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,680
Match and I'm not saying.
You can't reach like of course a

1554
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:17,640
small business can reach a
little higher than like if I'm

1555
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:19,720
$1,000,000 business.
That doesn't mean I should only

1556
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:23,880
deal with DJs, but I shouldn't
go after Beyoncé's tour this

1557
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:27,440
year because it could likely
bankrupt me if I were to get it.

1558
01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:29,800
It'd be the worst thing that
ever happened to my business

1559
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,680
because I'd have to take on so
much debt to get the gear and

1560
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:37,120
people that I would need.
And I don't have any experience

1561
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:40,800
dealing with Beyoncé or Beyoncé
size acts.

1562
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:44,160
And so I don't belong there and
I'm going to have problems.

1563
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,760
So I think that that's a
challenge to like, I think

1564
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,200
there's a lot of companies out
there that think they can grow

1565
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,360
in to be the Super Bowl provider
this year or Beyoncé's rental

1566
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,440
company or whatever it is.
And there's a good chance they

1567
01:27:58,440 --> 01:28:00,200
don't belong there.
And, and they're going to bump

1568
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:02,680
their head pretty hard and it's
going to cost a lot of money and

1569
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:08,600
may, may, really may end them.
Yeah, I think small companies.

1570
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,680
Definitely don't have any surge
capacity, right, whereas larger

1571
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,920
companies do.
And I think if that's a, if

1572
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,520
that's a factor, it absolutely
comes into.

1573
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:17,760
Play.
Yeah.

1574
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:22,320
So do you think that?
The period we're in right now

1575
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:24,840
is.
Are we in?

1576
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:27,960
A and I'm going to read it to
you exactly as I wrote it,

1577
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:29,280
because otherwise I'll screw it
up.

1578
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:33,160
Transition, stagnation or growth
period right now?

1579
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:40,480
I would say it depends.
Who you are if you're a company

1580
01:28:40,480 --> 01:28:47,640
that's reliant on 80% or more of
your business coming from sort

1581
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:48,880
of the sources.
That we were talking.

1582
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,360
About if we're really focused in
that that dry higher equipment

1583
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:57,000
rental box sales my.
Suggestion.

1584
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:02,280
Would be to get in front of some
strategic thinking right away in

1585
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:06,880
terms of how you want to future
proof or, or build some other

1586
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,240
roadways for that particular
business.

1587
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:14,040
If if you're concerned, if you,
you know, if you feel like, hey,

1588
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:16,720
we're, we're kind of softening
out here a little bit or we're

1589
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:18,600
stagnating.
If you find yourself in that

1590
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:23,200
situation and I know that some
of those organizations are then

1591
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:27,520
that that's probably I, I would
say strongly that that's a very

1592
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:34,800
good place to be thinking if if
you're more of a 5050 mix and

1593
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,600
you have some other diverse
lanes of.

1594
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:39,880
Travel you.
Know labor and equipment and

1595
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:44,320
maybe you do some some design
and install features then I

1596
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:47,840
think you probably still need to
you know you will always benefit

1597
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:51,560
from future thinking but you're
probably going to have a much

1598
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:55,000
better year in terms of
statistically what I'm saying is

1599
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,320
one man's opinion right but I
think in terms of the data that

1600
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:02,240
I'm seeing and what I'm
experiencing with with groups

1601
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:05,640
that I'm working with that seems
to be pretty clear to me that

1602
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:10,520
you really need to thoughtfully
plan ahead and.

1603
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:12,760
And.
And again, you know, ask for

1604
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:16,520
that outside perspective, ask
for that, that that weigh in

1605
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:19,240
because this is the moment to do
that.

1606
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:23,080
If you're in one of those 80%
companies I just mentioned and

1607
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:25,240
you've been waiting for the
right moment to think about

1608
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,480
what's our next strategic move,
this is your sign.

1609
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:31,640
Yeah, this is the moment to do
that for sure.

1610
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:36,240
If not, you know, you're, I
think you are in a different

1611
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:39,560
area to be able to do that.
The other thing I would say is

1612
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:43,400
if you're a company who's
heavily balanced in the labor

1613
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:45,880
market, in the labor provision,
maybe you're a labor broker or

1614
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:49,560
maybe you you're, you're one of
the companies that offers gear

1615
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:52,880
and labor and design build and
you sort of do it all, but you

1616
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:56,800
have a really robust usage of
Labor.

1617
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:00,920
You've got a big labor force.
Think about getting involved

1618
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,280
with some of the workforce
initiatives that are out there.

1619
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:05,360
You know, if you're somebody
that has a a big training

1620
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:08,280
program and you have a skill set
matrix and you're, you know,

1621
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,080
you're trying to build talent
for your own business, there are

1622
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:14,240
some very good, very important
efforts happening right now to

1623
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:17,360
do that for our industry.
And that would be another area I

1624
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:19,120
would say don't wait.
Get involved.

1625
01:31:19,480 --> 01:31:24,720
Yeah.
But so you know, one of the

1626
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:30,280
things that I've had some
conversations with a few column

1627
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:36,360
sort of mid level private equity
owned companies or at least

1628
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:40,680
private equity partnered
companies who have sort of been

1629
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:42,960
sitting on their hands for the
last year or more.

1630
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:47,400
And several of those people, or
at least I shouldn't say several

1631
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:51,160
because it sounds like a big
number, but in the last week,

1632
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:55,240
I've spoken to to three
different companies who have all

1633
01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:59,680
basically said the same thing to
me, that by the end of 25 or

1634
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,240
early 26, they're going to be
acquiring more companies.

1635
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:09,360
And they see that that's the
sort of atmosphere we're going

1636
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,120
to be in by the end of 25, early
26.

1637
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:16,360
And you know, drilling down into
some of those reasons, they feel

1638
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,040
like there's going to be a
capital crunch again on those

1639
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,200
businesses.
Businesses are going to need

1640
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:23,400
help from some more patient
capital.

1641
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,280
They feel like there's going to
be another inventory problem and

1642
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:32,560
where companies are finding.
Themselves left out on.

1643
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:35,160
Some of the new inventory, which
is another thing I want to get

1644
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:39,920
into, some of the new technology
that's coming out right now or

1645
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:44,280
whatever the reason, but is that
something that you think matches

1646
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:48,480
with what you've learned as well
or what you've heard it it does

1647
01:32:48,480 --> 01:32:50,600
so?
Those groups, as you might

1648
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:53,760
imagine, are very strategic and
they're thinking they're looking

1649
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:57,080
years out, they're watching
this, this ebb and flow that

1650
01:32:57,080 --> 01:32:59,560
we've lived through over the
last few years.

1651
01:32:59,960 --> 01:33:02,480
And they've already done exactly
sort of what I mentioned a

1652
01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:05,520
minute ago of, you know, if if
this is your moment and you

1653
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:09,680
haven't put together some future
plans with bigger ideas and

1654
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,400
bigger influence and now is your
moment to do that, they've

1655
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:15,640
already done that.
And so because of that, they've

1656
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:21,240
looked out to that 2526 and they
know that 25 is likely to be a

1657
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:25,440
very good buy year for some of
those companies who who have

1658
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:31,040
plateaued a bit in that space.
So yeah, I I think that's that's

1659
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:33,120
exactly right.
Does it also have to do with?

1660
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:36,440
Cost of capital, like is that a
big one of the big things that

1661
01:33:36,440 --> 01:33:39,840
they're looking at like as their
cost of capital goes up, their

1662
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:46,840
desire to buy maybe a little
edgy, you know, companies or

1663
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:50,120
whatever goes down.
And especially like our industry

1664
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:54,360
is I wouldn't say unique
completely, but it's special and

1665
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:59,120
it's need for capital for CapEx
in particular like this, this

1666
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:02,640
massive need for CapEx in our
industry seems to be different

1667
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:07,280
than most like most, most in
most industries you don't have

1668
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,520
to spend, you know half of your
sales every year on buying new

1669
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:13,840
gear, you know, buying new
inventory.

1670
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:20,320
So Speaking of inventory.
You know one.

1671
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:24,280
Of the cool things, I guess what
happened, if I look backwards

1672
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:29,560
into the crystal ball a little
bit, you can see that when COVID

1673
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:33,120
happened, obviously a lot of
companies stopped spending on

1674
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:35,520
research and development in our
industry.

1675
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:38,240
We're not talking about, you
know, multibillion dollar

1676
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:41,000
companies where they could just
spend because they know the

1677
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:44,000
sun's going to come out at some
point and they can they can just

1678
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:47,560
keep spending like crazy on R&D.
Our industry doesn't

1679
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:52,200
historically spend a huge amount
of money on R&D anyways, you

1680
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:55,800
know, in comparison to like you
know, tech companies and stuff

1681
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,080
like that where where you know
it, it could be, you know, half

1682
01:34:59,080 --> 01:35:01,640
of your sales number could be
spent on R&D or whatever.

1683
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:10,560
But So what happened is I think
what a, when, you know, 212223

1684
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:13,760
happened, what we saw was
product that was meant to come

1685
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:17,160
out in 2020.
And what we're seeing now is

1686
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:20,280
stuff that's catching up.
And so I think it's exciting

1687
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:25,040
times right now for new gear.
I think we're seeing the moving

1688
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:27,360
light manufacturers in
particular are coming out with

1689
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,120
some really cool new stuff.
Some of the companies, some of

1690
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:33,160
the companies are still a little
vanilla in their in their new

1691
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:37,320
product releases, but a few
companies have done a really,

1692
01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:40,760
and I won't mention names
because I still need all of

1693
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:45,240
these people to be my friends.
But you know, some of these

1694
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:47,480
companies have come out with
some really incredible new

1695
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:49,520
technology.
And I think we're really going

1696
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:52,960
to start pushing that forward
again to where, you know, if you

1697
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:58,400
bought lights in 21 or 22 brand
new, there's a very good chance

1698
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:02,240
that, you know, come 2026, those
lights are going to be old

1699
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:04,120
technology.
Like we're going to really start

1700
01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:06,520
seeing some incredible new stuff
happening.

1701
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:09,680
Consoles, you know, I don't know
where lighting consoles are

1702
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:13,000
going right now.
I would expect that we'll see an

1703
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:16,800
MA4 console at some point in the
not too distant future.

1704
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,520
I've heard high end has a hog 5
coming out.

1705
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:24,040
Audio consoles, there's a lot of
cool stuff happening there as

1706
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:29,080
well.
So you know, but what about like

1707
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:32,200
are you seeing first of all, are
you seeing the same kind of

1708
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:35,480
thing in, in the technologies
that you follow in particular?

1709
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:39,280
Yes, I, I, I.
Agree with that.

1710
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:44,040
I think that is happening and I
think that the that it goes back

1711
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:47,760
to that thought process of what
are we sitting on right now that

1712
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:51,760
maybe we're not using and or we
have customers coming to us

1713
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:54,640
asking for stuff and we don't we
don't know how to sort of

1714
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,520
connect the dots right and get
it to market for them.

1715
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:01,480
So I think, I think that that
aspect is definitely happening.

1716
01:37:01,480 --> 01:37:07,160
And what I'm saying, I would
also say that the, the coming

1717
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:12,120
into 26 people are definitely
considering what technologies

1718
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:15,640
customers can afford and, and
from what I'm seeing, customers

1719
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:18,400
are actually interested in
spending more on that.

1720
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:23,520
There are some especially on
the, on the AV corporate side,

1721
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:28,640
I'm seeing that customers are,
are responding to the idea of

1722
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:32,600
beginning to grow their meetings
back again and be able to have a

1723
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:35,280
level of technology that's maybe
a bit better than it's been in

1724
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,000
the past.
They're, they're still coming

1725
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:41,120
online, but they are certainly
pushing that direction.

1726
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,560
And so I, I think the trend does
support that, that by 26 we're

1727
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:48,600
going to see a lot more asks,
but strategically.

1728
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:52,960
Again, like if I'm a $5,000,000
rental company, most of my

1729
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:55,280
customers are not national
touring acts.

1730
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:58,680
Most of my customers are not,
you know, the largest tech

1731
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:03,160
companies in the world.
Most of my clients are, you

1732
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:09,000
know, sort of mid to small level
clients.

1733
01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:16,960
The spec is usually mine.
Like I need to be disciplined,

1734
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:20,200
but you know, I need to be
disciplined and realize that

1735
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:26,160
every time one of these sound
lighting video manufacturers

1736
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:29,840
comes out with something just a
little bit different or just a

1737
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:31,800
little bit better.
Like I think if you look

1738
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:35,360
specifically at moving lights,
for example, as long as I have

1739
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:42,720
LED wash fixtures, LED hard edge
fixtures, chances are they have

1740
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:46,240
zoom, they have framing, they
have prisms, they have all those

1741
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:51,080
things that every light has
nowadays unless.

1742
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:54,520
I really.
Need for my shows like for one,

1743
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:58,440
you might need IP rated fixtures
that you didn't have before and

1744
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:03,480
I can see a huge reason to
invest in IP rated fixtures.

1745
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:09,280
But you know, aside from that,
like, should I be doing what we

1746
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:12,280
all do with iPhones and every
time a new one comes out, should

1747
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:15,000
I be rushing to the store and
buying that new one?

1748
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:19,920
Or should I be looking at my
inventory and going, you know

1749
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:24,800
what, my EBITDA this year went
up to X, whatever it is.

1750
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:29,600
And my current gear strategy
makes a lot of sense.

1751
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:32,920
Like, and I flip flop on this a
little bit because I always

1752
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:36,560
liked the Bob Cannon model
where, you know, at two years,

1753
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:39,120
no matter what, something was
put up for sale.

1754
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:43,840
And my Cannon, the Sun
remarkably is incredibly similar

1755
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:48,120
in his strategy on gear.
And you know, for that reason,

1756
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:50,240
you always end up with the
latest greatest stuff.

1757
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,320
It's in good condition.
You know it's going to work when

1758
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,880
it gets out on the show site and
you know that it's going to

1759
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,480
maintain a certain level of
value and on the used market

1760
01:39:59,480 --> 01:40:02,360
too.
But what like if, if I'm a

1761
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:06,920
client that has hired you and I
say strategically, what should I

1762
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:08,840
be doing?
What are you going to tell me?

1763
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:11,560
I'm going to tell.
You to look at your customer.

1764
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:13,600
Set and think about your
customer expectations.

1765
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:15,680
What did, what do they expect?
Because that's going to drive

1766
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:20,360
your demand, right?
And I, I have a client that's

1767
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:22,840
very much in the spectrum right
at this very moment.

1768
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:28,520
So this one hits home for sure.
And I would say you probably are

1769
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:30,520
in a place where you want to buy
some different gear.

1770
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:34,280
But before you buy that
different gear, model it out.

1771
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,800
And what I mean by that is take
take the time.

1772
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,160
Well, that's a beautiful song
right in the middle.

1773
01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:45,520
Of our right, I I apologize.
I didn't realize my my Mac to do

1774
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:50,120
that.
The one of the things that I

1775
01:40:50,120 --> 01:40:53,880
think is really important is
model it out financially to

1776
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:57,720
figure out what your your rate
of return is going to be on this

1777
01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:02,400
and how quickly you think you
can pay it back and have a

1778
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:04,360
couple of stretch goals for a
couple of things.

1779
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:09,240
So I think I think what happens
for people is they see a lot of

1780
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:11,200
things that they think are
really cool because there's a

1781
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:15,040
lot of really cool things out
there, but they invest too much

1782
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:18,960
on check them out technologies
that you know that are that top

1783
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:21,120
end of like, well, let's check
this out with our customers and

1784
01:41:21,120 --> 01:41:23,640
see how it goes.
I think you should do that, but

1785
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:27,040
I think you should narrow that
to a, you know, to say look, our

1786
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:30,600
capital budget, we're going to
put 10% towards check them out

1787
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:34,400
technologies and the other 90%
we're going to put towards

1788
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:36,640
equipment.
That.

1789
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:41,920
We can verifiably or at least
rationally say we're going to

1790
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:46,600
repay this equipment in a
certain period of time and and

1791
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:48,080
there's some magic numbers
around that.

1792
01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:49,760
What do you think that period of
time should?

1793
01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:52,600
Be and I guess it's different
for all different levels of

1794
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,880
companies, but is there a in
general number?

1795
01:41:56,440 --> 01:41:59,480
Yeah, in in general.
I would say if you're because

1796
01:41:59,480 --> 01:42:03,920
you gave the AV example, I think
you need to be able to pay that

1797
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:10,480
off within, ideally within the
first six to eight months to a

1798
01:42:10,480 --> 01:42:14,360
year.
Is a is a pretty good framework

1799
01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:18,520
in my opinion now that's of
technologies that are sort of in

1800
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:22,200
the you know, high end video or
lighting categories,

1801
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:25,600
particularly audio may have a
little more malleability.

1802
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:28,880
Obviously rigging has a much
longer lifespan and it's not the

1803
01:42:28,880 --> 01:42:31,640
technology there isn't changing
it at all right.

1804
01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:35,600
So so you have to really qualify
which pieces of gear you're

1805
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:38,720
talking about.
But but I would say if you're

1806
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:42,640
getting an initial rate of
return that's, you know, north

1807
01:42:42,640 --> 01:42:47,600
of 60% to 100% in that that
first year period, you're in the

1808
01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:49,600
ballpark.
That's yeah, that's.

1809
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:51,840
I that's a shorter.
Number than I expected to hear

1810
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:53,000
from you.
I thought I was going to hear

1811
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:55,480
two years because that's what I
see on so many of the moving

1812
01:42:55,480 --> 01:42:59,000
light purchases these days.
You know, they and the other

1813
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:02,800
thing is I, I think that
companies are basically

1814
01:43:03,480 --> 01:43:08,560
calculating the entire income
from that rental towards that

1815
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:10,880
moving light purchase when
they're doing that math because

1816
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:12,760
they're trying to justify the
spend, right.

1817
01:43:12,760 --> 01:43:15,680
So they're going while we're
getting you know, $200 a week

1818
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:18,320
and they're not putting any
money into prep labor, any money

1819
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:21,960
into it relamping if they're
lamp based fixtures or

1820
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:26,400
maintenance or repairs or any of
those things soft costs, they're

1821
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:29,200
not considering any soft costs,
just the hard cost.

1822
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:32,920
But the other thing that I think
is exciting right now is moving

1823
01:43:32,920 --> 01:43:37,840
lights.
Again, in particular are we went

1824
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:41,240
through a period of time like I
think with lamp based moving

1825
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:44,000
lights.
We we were at a point where a

1826
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:48,280
good lamp based moving light,
like a, you know, a, a mega

1827
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:52,840
point or a, a Viper or whatever.
The, the top sort of level

1828
01:43:52,840 --> 01:43:55,520
moving lights.
Those were lasting a good 6-7

1829
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:58,680
years where they were sort of at
the top of the game and they

1830
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:01,840
were, you know, well maintained
and they were in good condition

1831
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:05,760
and all of that stuff.
Then we went to the early LE DS

1832
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:08,960
and we were seeing really short
windows on where you could

1833
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:13,160
capitalize that cost and then
the price was just dropping so

1834
01:44:13,160 --> 01:44:15,760
quickly and everybody wanted the
new model because they were

1835
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:19,680
coming out so quickly.
And now I think we're back to a

1836
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:24,320
point like, you know, for
example, I mean, we sell Mac

1837
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,880
Aura LED wash lights all day
long.

1838
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,720
They, you know, as fast as they
come up, come up for sale on the

1839
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:34,080
used market, we sell them and
that's a light that's probably

1840
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:37,240
been out for, I don't know, 7
or.

1841
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:41,920
Eight years at this.
Point maybe more and different

1842
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:45,160
models obviously get bigger
returns and stuff like that, but

1843
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:48,240
I think we're back on moving
lights to where you can buy a

1844
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:51,080
light and expect to get a good
five or six years out of it.

1845
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:56,960
If you're in that sort of BB
plus a market, if you're in AC

1846
01:44:57,200 --> 01:45:00,040
market, you could probably get
20 years out of it still, you

1847
01:45:00,040 --> 01:45:04,600
know, But if you're in in those
upper echelon markets, you're

1848
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:08,640
going to be able to use it
pretty widely for a good period

1849
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:11,080
of time.
Yeah, totally.

1850
01:45:11,080 --> 01:45:14,280
Totally agree.
And I think in the example of

1851
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:17,400
keeping your initial rate of
return high, I'm thinking

1852
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:20,600
specifically about that AB
market where you're, you know,

1853
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:23,560
you're turning and burning with
those events that are they're

1854
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:26,640
coming in pretty hot and heavy.
But the viability of that

1855
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:29,080
product to continue to rent it
and sell it.

1856
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,760
I I totally agree.
I think it's, I think it's north

1857
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:34,760
of two years.
And and I don't disagree with

1858
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:37,560
the two year metric.
I think it just depends sort of

1859
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:40,440
who you are in that space.
If you're, or if you're an in

1860
01:45:40,440 --> 01:45:44,560
house provider versus a non
contracted provider that's more

1861
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:46,800
of a dry hire.
I think that's a distinction

1862
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:49,120
there that that matters.
Yeah.

1863
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:50,080
Yeah.
Well.

1864
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:51,760
I.
Mean in house providers are

1865
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:56,440
obviously getting much higher,
higher rental rates than than.

1866
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:01,440
So moving on here a little bit
because I know I don't have you

1867
01:46:01,440 --> 01:46:04,440
all day, darn it.
But one of the things I wanted

1868
01:46:04,440 --> 01:46:09,560
to talk to you about a little
bit is international markets and

1869
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:14,040
in particular the UAE.
And the only reason I'm really

1870
01:46:14,040 --> 01:46:17,720
getting into you on this one is
because half the time when I

1871
01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:21,520
call you or whatever, you're
like in bed, sleeping in Dubai,

1872
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:26,640
you know, in, in, you know,
early morning or the, or

1873
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:29,720
lunchtime, I'm having lunch and
I call you and you're, you're in

1874
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:32,200
bed like everything.
OK, Why are you waking me up?

1875
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:40,360
And so, you know, explain to me
what that markets like today,

1876
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:44,400
'cause you know, I don't, I, I
wish I knew a lot more about it

1877
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:48,680
than I do, but I don't know a
ton about, you know, Dubai and,

1878
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:52,160
and the UAE in general.
And the Saudi market I know is

1879
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:56,640
constantly evolving right now.
And so give me a, a bit of a

1880
01:46:56,640 --> 01:46:58,480
snapshot on what's going on over
there.

1881
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:01,120
Sure.
Incredibly.

1882
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,560
Fast growing market,
particularly in KSA, Kingdom of

1883
01:47:04,600 --> 01:47:08,120
Saudi Arabia.
There has been enormous

1884
01:47:08,120 --> 01:47:10,920
government investment to develop
the events and entertainment

1885
01:47:10,920 --> 01:47:14,800
sector.
And it's been done sort of

1886
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:21,240
twofold #1 is that they want to
create a more engagement and

1887
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:24,920
more attractions and
opportunities for people living

1888
01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:27,200
in Saudi.
And the other part is they want

1889
01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:29,680
to attract more tourism in
Saudi.

1890
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:32,800
And so a lot of people may not
know that it's, it's a very

1891
01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:38,160
recent development over the last
sort of two or three years, I

1892
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:41,960
believe, where you can get a
tourist visa now to travel to

1893
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:46,680
Saudi Arabia.
And the implications behind that

1894
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:50,320
are that the development of
infrastructure specifically to

1895
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:53,680
support tourism has has needed
to grow.

1896
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:57,040
And so that's a key focus, focus
for the Kingdom for sure.

1897
01:47:57,240 --> 01:48:01,400
They really are investing a lot
of money and effort in not just

1898
01:48:01,440 --> 01:48:04,040
building event services and
events venues.

1899
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:07,680
And I think of of things like
middle beast that has multiple

1900
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:11,000
stages.
It's it's an enormous festival

1901
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:16,400
on concert experience sort of
wrapped up and it's the biggest

1902
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:18,200
in the world that I'm aware of
it what it does.

1903
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:23,640
And so there's a massive amount
of production happening in in

1904
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:27,920
the region.
And it is an exciting time in

1905
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:32,520
the sense that there's a lot of
it that is growing and it's

1906
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:37,000
growing at A at a substantially
faster pace than what we're

1907
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:39,280
experiencing here in the United
States.

1908
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:43,400
But it's, it's also in a place
where while there are many

1909
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:46,240
things that are very mature,
there are some things that are,

1910
01:48:46,520 --> 01:48:52,440
are still evolving.
And the, the demand for high

1911
01:48:52,440 --> 01:48:57,640
tech and high touch there is, is
extraordinary in, in the best of

1912
01:48:57,640 --> 01:49:00,440
ways, in my opinion.
So the quality of product that's

1913
01:49:00,440 --> 01:49:06,200
expected, the level of of high
touch service that is expected

1914
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:12,760
along with that is real.
And when I think about the the.

1915
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:15,320
Evolution of that.
And, and what's happened there?

1916
01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:17,560
So certainly there are many
private companies, there are a

1917
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:20,240
lot of small companies and large
companies alike that are in the

1918
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:25,360
region and like the US and
anywhere else, you know,

1919
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:28,080
there's, there's better years
and there's slower years.

1920
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:31,920
And they've certainly felt some
more recent effects of of that

1921
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:36,840
being a little bit a little bit
softer, maybe this softer start

1922
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:40,960
to the year in the UAE.
But from my perspective, in my

1923
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:44,520
opinion is it's a phenomenal
market in terms of its growth

1924
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:48,000
potential and so.
Is the driver behind?

1925
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:52,240
That like the the driver behind
the move into tourism and stuff,

1926
01:49:52,240 --> 01:49:58,040
is that getting away from being
exclusively oil based income or

1927
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:00,880
revenue That's part of it I.
Both.

1928
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:03,840
Countries have looked to
diversify their income over the

1929
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:08,120
years.
And so Dubai, UAE started that

1930
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:12,080
many years back by recognizing
that they didn't have the most

1931
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:15,360
natural resources available to
them and ultimately they would

1932
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:16,960
have to find other revenue
streams.

1933
01:50:17,440 --> 01:50:19,360
And they in, in my opinion,
they've done it very

1934
01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:21,640
successfully.
Their tourism market is, is

1935
01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:26,040
fantastic.
KSA in similar vein has

1936
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:30,400
tremendous natural resources
still, but are looking at how to

1937
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:34,440
improve access to attractions
and entertainments for, for

1938
01:50:34,440 --> 01:50:39,080
people living in Saudi, but also
wanting to be able to grow that,

1939
01:50:39,120 --> 01:50:43,960
that access to, to events and
entertainment to people coming

1940
01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:47,320
into Saudi as tourists.
So yeah, it's, it's, it's very

1941
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:50,120
much that's, that's very much a
piece of it.

1942
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:55,240
But I would say that Dubai
started that process more or

1943
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:58,840
less 20 plus years ago, whereas
it's really only been in the

1944
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:03,640
last kind of five years where
KSA has had a had a really

1945
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:06,600
focused push there well and is
there also and.

1946
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:09,400
You know, again, this is just
all my impressions of a guy

1947
01:51:09,400 --> 01:51:11,160
who's an idiot and has never
been there.

1948
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:13,240
And so I don't have any first
hand knowledge at all.

1949
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:17,600
So I'm learning from you.
But I get the impression that

1950
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:22,920
Dubai has become much more
Westernized and you know.

1951
01:51:24,480 --> 01:51:27,800
Accepting of of Western.
Culture and things like that,

1952
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,920
whereas the.
Saudi.

1953
01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:37,480
Is still a little more rigid and
and conservative and is that is

1954
01:51:37,480 --> 01:51:44,600
that true or am I I would I?
Would say that broadly speaking

1955
01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:52,040
that's true in in places like
Dubai there are are certainly

1956
01:51:52,320 --> 01:51:56,600
some expected.
Cultural respects.

1957
01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:01,080
To be paid in terms of, you
know, public affection or things

1958
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:04,560
like that that you want to be
mindful of as as sort of a, a, a

1959
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:09,960
good citizen while you're there.
But that being said, I mean, I

1960
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:12,600
think there are.
Many.

1961
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:16,040
Differences in terms of the
labor and workforce, in terms of

1962
01:52:16,040 --> 01:52:23,560
how the companies even operate,
in terms of how they they, they.

1963
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:25,920
Manage their.
Operations, there are some

1964
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,640
things that are substantially
different from the United

1965
01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:38,000
States, but I would say in terms
of the is it is it a place where

1966
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:42,080
a lot more of the entertainment
that we would see here, you

1967
01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:47,080
would see there yes, 100% the
end product in terms of, you

1968
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:49,000
know that level of
entertainment, the level of

1969
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:53,280
quality of production there is
extraordinarily high and, and I

1970
01:52:53,280 --> 01:53:01,440
I would say in KSAA bit
different KSA is is evolving

1971
01:53:01,440 --> 01:53:04,640
very quickly.
I mean, from a standpoint that

1972
01:53:05,320 --> 01:53:11,000
there are there are elements of
society that are are very

1973
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:15,880
conservative and, and have
certain certain cultural

1974
01:53:15,880 --> 01:53:21,840
expectations and there are some
of it may be being generational.

1975
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:26,560
There are younger Saudis who are
more desiring of that

1976
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:30,800
entertainment and maybe a bit
more of a bit more of their

1977
01:53:30,800 --> 01:53:35,520
ability to express themselves
and, and, and a multitude of

1978
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:37,080
ways.
So, so yeah, I would say both,

1979
01:53:37,160 --> 01:53:42,400
both evolving, but KSA evolving
very quickly in terms of maybe

1980
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:46,400
what what Americans or or
Westerners might have in the

1981
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:48,680
back of their head as, as what
it is.

1982
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:54,480
I I would say that most of the
people I talked to have not

1983
01:53:54,480 --> 01:53:58,800
really a correct perception of
of many of the elements there.

1984
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:00,360
Yeah.
And so.

1985
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:05,320
Is it like what are the
restrictions like as far from a

1986
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:09,480
business standpoint like can I
go open a business in Saudi?

1987
01:54:12,840 --> 01:54:14,840
That's.
That's a tough.

1988
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:16,680
Question.
Really.

1989
01:54:17,120 --> 01:54:21,240
Yeah.
So the the short answer is yes,

1990
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:25,320
you can.
There are a number of things

1991
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:31,280
that you have to go through in
terms of licensure and in terms

1992
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:37,960
potentially of sponsorship of of
a local who is joining your

1993
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:41,440
business effort, depending on a
lot of different factors.

1994
01:54:41,840 --> 01:54:44,600
They will have requirements in
terms of having a physical

1995
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:46,880
office there and maybe even in a
certain place.

1996
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:50,240
So there's, there's a lot of,
there's a lot to know in terms

1997
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:51,840
of how to do that.
Is it possible?

1998
01:54:51,840 --> 01:54:56,720
Yes, I would say that that
largely though, if especially if

1999
01:54:56,720 --> 01:55:01,560
you're a small business, it, it
probably is not going to make

2000
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:04,760
sense to set up shop there
because it's going to cost you a

2001
01:55:04,760 --> 01:55:08,400
lot to start that structure and
get it in place.

2002
01:55:08,600 --> 01:55:11,600
But it's but it's possible.
What about the big like?

2003
01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:15,080
Multinational chains, you know,
like the four walls and PR GS

2004
01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:16,760
and stuff.
Do they have local offices?

2005
01:55:17,080 --> 01:55:20,160
They do OK.
And so do they have.

2006
01:55:20,160 --> 01:55:23,440
To do that with local partners,
so it.

2007
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:26,120
It depends the rules.
Have changed quite a bit and the

2008
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:30,360
rules between KSA and UAE, while
similar, are not entirely the

2009
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:35,120
same.
OK, So in UAE it is possible to

2010
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:41,520
be entirely owned without being
a local, but there are some

2011
01:55:41,520 --> 01:55:44,840
provisions to that and and a
fair number of complexities.

2012
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:48,080
When you're looking at larger
organizations like that, that

2013
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:52,840
are able to put a footprint, put
a building and hire locally and

2014
01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:57,640
maintain a a certain level of of
staffing locally, then you can

2015
01:55:57,640 --> 01:56:01,440
begin to enter that equation and
and have an office there.

2016
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:04,320
But but yeah, there's there's a
lot of sounds complicated.

2017
01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:06,920
It it.
Sort of in.

2018
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:09,240
Comparison to what we talked
about in U.S. business, Yeah,

2019
01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:10,840
there's it.
It's a bit different.

2020
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:12,600
Yeah.
What about?

2021
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:15,080
Gear like I.
I remember with a different

2022
01:56:15,080 --> 01:56:20,480
company that I had back.
This was a long time.

2023
01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:25,440
Ago maybe, I don't know, 1617,
eighteen years ago and we were

2024
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:32,360
selling product into Dubai I
believe and it couldn't be

2025
01:56:32,360 --> 01:56:36,680
Chinese made product.
Are there any kinds of?

2026
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:41,520
Restrictions like that, like
like you can't sell used product

2027
01:56:41,520 --> 01:56:44,360
there, you can't sell product of
certain origin there.

2028
01:56:44,360 --> 01:56:47,280
You can't.
That you're aware of, I'm not

2029
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:49,360
aware of.
Intricacies around that.

2030
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:51,040
OK, OK.
Yeah.

2031
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:56,440
Just curious about that, Yeah.
And so I know you're you're

2032
01:56:56,440 --> 01:56:59,800
doing a lot of work over there.
Is that primarily companies from

2033
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:03,160
here that are now doing business
there or are you actually

2034
01:57:03,160 --> 01:57:06,600
working with like Saudi based
companies?

2035
01:57:06,920 --> 01:57:09,760
Both really interesting.
That's.

2036
01:57:10,080 --> 01:57:12,480
Quite the growth.
I'm just going to sign on

2037
01:57:12,480 --> 01:57:15,480
clients in Saudi Arabia so that
some.

2038
01:57:15,480 --> 01:57:18,800
Organizations looking to.
Expand where it makes sense to

2039
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:22,520
do so from the United States
into the UAE or KSA.

2040
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:27,880
And also some organizations in
UAE and KSA that are, are

2041
01:57:27,880 --> 01:57:30,600
looking for help achieving that
next level of growth.

2042
01:57:30,640 --> 01:57:34,040
Sort of asking the question like
what's next in the playbook for

2043
01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:35,960
us?
How do we get to that place?

2044
01:57:35,960 --> 01:57:39,280
We're seeing a lot of
opportunity here help us shape

2045
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:41,720
what that looks like.
And, and so that's that's kind

2046
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:43,920
of the nature of it.
Are we starting to see

2047
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:45,640
companies?
Over there, getting large enough

2048
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:49,240
to where they're thinking of
expanding into North America or

2049
01:57:49,240 --> 01:57:52,480
Europe or other parts of the
world I.

2050
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:56,200
Think that's a TBD?
I think there's, there are,

2051
01:57:58,760 --> 01:58:00,880
yeah, I think that's a TBD at
the moment.

2052
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:06,640
Most of the organizations that
are locally based are really

2053
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:10,680
primarily focused at the moment
on growth within the region.

2054
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:13,240
It's.
Interesting because.

2055
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:17,160
You know, obviously like the, I
don't know what it's called

2056
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:20,920
Saudi sovereign fund or whatever
it's called, but you know, there

2057
01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:24,000
seems to be such a climate over
there for the government to

2058
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:27,320
invest into businesses.
You would think that and they

2059
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:30,280
they come over here and they buy
American companies and stuff as

2060
01:58:30,280 --> 01:58:32,440
well.
You would think that they would

2061
01:58:32,440 --> 01:58:36,040
go, hey, Todd, we want to grow
your bit, help you grow your

2062
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:40,440
business in and expand into the
United States or England or

2063
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:44,560
whatever it is.
You would think that that would

2064
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:50,120
be a thing, but it's not.
It depends on.

2065
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:52,280
You've got a lot of these.
It depends.

2066
01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:53,840
Answers.
Yeah, it depends.

2067
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:57,120
On the level of value it brings
for specific projects right by

2068
01:58:57,160 --> 01:58:59,680
the government, if there's a
clear and direct link of a

2069
01:58:59,680 --> 01:59:02,520
technology or a service that
they need and it's a hand in

2070
01:59:02,520 --> 01:59:06,280
glove fit, then the the answer
is yes, you're probably gonna

2071
01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:07,800
get a lot of support in doing
that.

2072
01:59:08,280 --> 01:59:11,280
If the answer is I'm not sure
and you know, you're just

2073
01:59:11,280 --> 01:59:15,960
another company sort of coming
over here, then it's it can, it

2074
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:19,080
can be a much more complicated,
costly process.

2075
01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:21,600
And I've seen it, I've seen it
go both ways.

2076
01:59:22,480 --> 01:59:26,720
Interesting.
And are there any that you're

2077
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:30,400
willing or able to talk about
big success stories or even on

2078
01:59:30,400 --> 01:59:33,760
the flip side, cautionary tales,
scary stories?

2079
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:40,400
Couldn't say any company names
but.

2080
01:59:40,400 --> 01:59:44,920
I would say that I would.
Say that if you're an.

2081
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:48,440
American business looking.
To.

2082
01:59:48,440 --> 01:59:55,200
Expand and or provide products
or services in some way to the

2083
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:59,960
Middle East.
Definitely partner with somebody

2084
01:59:59,960 --> 02:00:00,920
who's.
Been there, done that.

2085
02:00:01,160 --> 02:00:04,240
It's it's not a thing that you
kind of want to.

2086
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:11,840
Reach out and find.
A a local attorney and start up

2087
02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:15,000
a business and approach it the
way that, you know, potentially

2088
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:17,040
you might in the United States
or in the UK.

2089
02:00:17,360 --> 02:00:20,920
And I've worked with a number of
companies that did just that.

2090
02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:22,960
They reached out, they thought,
OK, I'm going to, I'm going to

2091
02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:25,480
call a local resource and they
can do the paperwork.

2092
02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:29,640
And they did and, and they set
up shop and they were able to

2093
02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:33,280
get their licensure and, and so
the, you know, the, the local

2094
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:35,760
resources did absolutely
everything that they promised

2095
02:00:35,760 --> 02:00:39,840
them they would do.
But here's what kind of.

2096
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:41,720
Came to be.
After a period of time is that

2097
02:00:41,720 --> 02:00:44,360
they didn't really understand
what they were in for in terms

2098
02:00:44,480 --> 02:00:47,640
of what we would think of as
taxes to be paid year over year

2099
02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:52,680
or licensing fees and got some
very, very large bills after

2100
02:00:52,680 --> 02:00:56,360
their first year in business
that completely negated

2101
02:00:56,360 --> 02:01:00,080
everybody profit that they made
during that year and had they

2102
02:01:00,080 --> 02:01:03,520
actually ask some.
Different questions or.

2103
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:06,320
Worked with somebody that that
knew about our industry, that

2104
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:09,840
knew about that market that do
it some things to like, you

2105
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:12,600
know, ask this question or do
this or maybe don't do that.

2106
02:01:12,840 --> 02:01:14,960
And so they, they approached it
like forming a business in the

2107
02:01:14,960 --> 02:01:18,720
United States and they, they did
not have a good experience based

2108
02:01:18,720 --> 02:01:20,760
on that.
So I would say, I would say

2109
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:22,480
that's a, you know, cautionary
tale.

2110
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:25,160
Don't assume.
That it will be.

2111
02:01:25,160 --> 02:01:27,880
Like starting a business in the
US, it definitely will not.

2112
02:01:28,320 --> 02:01:30,000
What about them being?
Friendly.

2113
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:34,320
To like an American knocking on
their door and saying, hey, I,

2114
02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:37,480
my name is Bob, and I'd like to,
you know, become your lighting

2115
02:01:37,480 --> 02:01:41,800
provider.
That probably doesn't go

2116
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:44,960
incredibly well, or does it?
Not unfriendly.

2117
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:47,680
I find the market, I find, I
find that the people in the

2118
02:01:47,680 --> 02:01:51,800
markets are very friendly.
But that said, it is a very

2119
02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:57,960
relationship based market and
there's been a lot of expat

2120
02:01:57,960 --> 02:02:01,840
influence and foreign owned
company influence over the years

2121
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:05,600
that people are sort of
understandably distrustful.

2122
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:08,320
You know, you, you Johnny come
lately that's going to show up

2123
02:02:08,320 --> 02:02:11,560
and make all kinds of promises.
And when they realize they have

2124
02:02:11,560 --> 02:02:14,640
to get on a 16 hour plane ride
to go from the United States to

2125
02:02:14,640 --> 02:02:20,200
Dubai to to actually engage and
be present and be a real

2126
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:22,440
partner, they lose interest real
fast.

2127
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:26,040
And and so that's I've seen that
play out many times.

2128
02:02:26,240 --> 02:02:29,560
So as a result of that, a lot of
people in the market, as I said,

2129
02:02:29,560 --> 02:02:32,760
very understandably kind of want
to see you produce some results

2130
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:37,360
first before they engage you.
And and so all that to say, if

2131
02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:41,720
you don't have a really good
plan or already some history in

2132
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:44,040
the market or working with
somebody who has history in the

2133
02:02:44,040 --> 02:02:46,160
market, it's going to be a very
tough road.

2134
02:02:46,160 --> 02:02:49,520
And and I, I would, I would
strongly discourage just jumping

2135
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:50,840
in like that.
Yeah.

2136
02:02:50,960 --> 02:02:53,680
Well, and again, I think.
It, it, you know, it's like

2137
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:57,360
another one of those bright
flashy objects, you know, like

2138
02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:00,640
if you're in the United States
and you haven't maximized your

2139
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:04,520
market here, why are you looking
to do that 17 hour plane ride to

2140
02:03:04,520 --> 02:03:08,240
go visit customers in, in Dubai
or, or Saudi?

2141
02:03:08,960 --> 02:03:11,760
Just because someone told you
it's a great growing market?

2142
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:15,000
Well, I mean, if you've
completely maximized what you're

2143
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:18,840
doing over here and you can't
possibly find another customer

2144
02:03:18,840 --> 02:03:23,960
in the United States, then maybe
that's a, a really challenging

2145
02:03:23,960 --> 02:03:27,680
growth market, but one that you
could do well in otherwise.

2146
02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:32,760
Like focus on what's next door
before you go flying that far to

2147
02:03:32,760 --> 02:03:36,480
chase a customer.
One of the last big topics I

2148
02:03:36,480 --> 02:03:38,560
want to get into because I know
I can't keep you forever.

2149
02:03:38,560 --> 02:03:44,920
Here is is sort of a nasty word
in in our industry some days or

2150
02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:46,720
a really good one.
It depends on which side of it

2151
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:50,360
you're on.
But private equity, I think in

2152
02:03:50,360 --> 02:03:54,560
some sense, private equity gets
a bad rap and shouldn't.

2153
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:58,880
And I had this argument with,
with someone at LDI won't

2154
02:03:58,880 --> 02:04:01,560
mention his name because he was
angry for some reason that I

2155
02:04:01,560 --> 02:04:06,440
still to this day don't know
because I'm not on like he, he

2156
02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:10,960
basically took me to be saying,
you know, that private equity is

2157
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:13,360
really good and it's great for
the industry and great for the

2158
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:17,040
world and all this stuff.
My statement that I had made to

2159
02:04:17,040 --> 02:04:22,880
him is the size of the shows
have necessitated a need for

2160
02:04:22,880 --> 02:04:26,000
capital that's not available
through conventional sources.

2161
02:04:26,240 --> 02:04:30,400
You know, you cannot go after a
Beyoncé with a bank loan.

2162
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:33,480
You just can't.
So if I want to go after

2163
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:36,640
Beyoncé, I'm going to need to
get a serious amount of capital

2164
02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:40,720
from somewhere or Taylor Swift,
for example, you know, huge

2165
02:04:40,720 --> 02:04:44,720
amount of money to invest into
doing a show of that size.

2166
02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:51,040
And I won't say it's impossible
for a privately held company,

2167
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:55,880
but if you look at like Bandit
and and Upstaging, those are two

2168
02:04:55,880 --> 02:04:59,240
really great privately held
companies that don't have

2169
02:04:59,240 --> 02:05:01,920
private equity in them as yet
anyway.

2170
02:05:02,480 --> 02:05:06,280
And those two companies can go
after virtually any size show

2171
02:05:06,280 --> 02:05:08,560
they want to.
They're well established,

2172
02:05:08,560 --> 02:05:12,440
they're very profitable.
They they obviously have good

2173
02:05:12,440 --> 02:05:14,480
sources of capital when they
need it.

2174
02:05:15,320 --> 02:05:20,640
But for most of the rest of the
population, they need that boost

2175
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:25,040
when they're looking to go after
a lot a larger base of clients

2176
02:05:25,040 --> 02:05:29,840
or a larger type of client.
And so I do see a place in this

2177
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:33,480
industry for private equity.
I've also seen some negative

2178
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:36,840
impact from private equity to
some of the bad things that that

2179
02:05:36,840 --> 02:05:42,040
have happened as a result.
So you know how.

2180
02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:44,840
How do you look at both?
The the plus and minus of

2181
02:05:44,840 --> 02:05:48,240
private equity as it is related
to our industry, whether it's,

2182
02:05:48,600 --> 02:05:52,320
you know, backing roll ups or
just backing a large company and

2183
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:56,080
taking part ownership or or you
know majority ownership or

2184
02:05:56,080 --> 02:06:01,480
whatever in that larger company.
But how do you view this whole

2185
02:06:01,480 --> 02:06:03,520
topic?
Yeah.

2186
02:06:04,760 --> 02:06:06,360
It's a great question.
And it's a space that I.

2187
02:06:06,360 --> 02:06:10,760
Sit in a lot as you know, sort
of being between a company owner

2188
02:06:10,760 --> 02:06:14,320
or founder LED business that
might be in the process of being

2189
02:06:14,320 --> 02:06:17,760
acquired by private equity or
might be looking to a private

2190
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:21,040
equity company that owns a an
event based business.

2191
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:23,080
And they're looking to grow it
and sort of figure it out.

2192
02:06:23,080 --> 02:06:26,280
But they're realizing that the
traditional methods of what you

2193
02:06:26,280 --> 02:06:30,160
would normally do somehow fall a
little bit flat when you apply

2194
02:06:30,160 --> 02:06:33,200
them to the event industry.
There's some accounting foibles

2195
02:06:33,200 --> 02:06:35,520
and differences that don't sort
of line up the same way.

2196
02:06:35,520 --> 02:06:38,400
When we look at how event
projects are spaced out, they're

2197
02:06:38,400 --> 02:06:41,120
not always very clean.
In fact, they're almost never

2198
02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:43,120
clean month to month.
You know, that's true.

2199
02:06:43,280 --> 02:06:46,360
So there's a lot of things that
affect that.

2200
02:06:46,360 --> 02:06:51,280
And I don't, I agree with you.
I I think that that there are

2201
02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:55,480
definite pros and cons.
My feeling is you can get into a

2202
02:06:55,480 --> 02:07:00,240
really excellent situation if
you have a private equity group

2203
02:07:00,560 --> 02:07:06,760
or an investment group of of any
variety who is really.

2204
02:07:06,760 --> 02:07:10,680
Thoughtful.
About what what they know and

2205
02:07:10,680 --> 02:07:15,640
what they don't know.
And in those groups who are

2206
02:07:15,640 --> 02:07:19,760
looking to invest but say for
instance, maybe already have

2207
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:22,840
assessed that they don't know
how to run an events business,

2208
02:07:22,840 --> 02:07:25,200
that's not a company that
they've had in their portfolio

2209
02:07:25,200 --> 02:07:26,680
before.
It's not anything that they've

2210
02:07:26,680 --> 02:07:28,760
done.
Personally, I think the greatest

2211
02:07:28,760 --> 02:07:31,480
piece of wisdom there is to
engage somebody who does know

2212
02:07:31,480 --> 02:07:35,000
and who has and also who sees
both sides of the coin, right,

2213
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:38,320
who looks at it and says, OK,
from an investor standpoint,

2214
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:40,920
what are the metrics, What are
the success measurements you

2215
02:07:40,920 --> 02:07:44,200
really need in order to make
this a good investment for you?

2216
02:07:44,720 --> 02:07:49,000
And equally to the owner, to the
founder or the, or the group of

2217
02:07:49,000 --> 02:07:52,680
owners, What do you need to feel
like it protects the DNA of what

2218
02:07:52,680 --> 02:07:54,440
made your business special to
begin with?

2219
02:07:54,600 --> 02:07:57,640
If you can bring those two
things together, it can be

2220
02:07:57,640 --> 02:07:59,480
magic.
It can be really, really good

2221
02:07:59,480 --> 02:08:02,400
for everybody involved.
But I do think that there's a,

2222
02:08:02,520 --> 02:08:06,240
there's a, you know, kind of a,
a set of things that you have to

2223
02:08:06,240 --> 02:08:10,520
flesh out between each other to
have some guardrails and say,

2224
02:08:10,520 --> 02:08:13,800
OK, this is an area where where
we're going to need some help.

2225
02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:16,880
And it's I and I also think
there's some common

2226
02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:20,440
misconceptions.
So from a founder standpoint, I

2227
02:08:20,440 --> 02:08:21,720
think a lot of.
Founders look at.

2228
02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:25,080
Private equity as a checkbook
and they think 8, they're just

2229
02:08:25,080 --> 02:08:26,600
going to write the check and
it's going to be great.

2230
02:08:26,600 --> 02:08:28,480
And there's an endless pile of
money behind it.

2231
02:08:28,480 --> 02:08:31,840
And so we can invest and I can
hire 10 more people right in and

2232
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:34,240
all the thoughts that sort of go
down that that road.

2233
02:08:35,080 --> 02:08:39,000
And from a private equity
standpoint, they're looking at

2234
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:44,360
it to be able to sustain and
grow that business to meet

2235
02:08:44,360 --> 02:08:46,840
certain profit margin targets,
right?

2236
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:50,640
I mean, these are these are very
logical and reasonable asks of

2237
02:08:50,640 --> 02:08:53,880
somebody who's investing in your
company place in the middle.

2238
02:08:53,880 --> 02:08:56,320
Between those.
Is where they get derailed.

2239
02:08:56,680 --> 02:09:00,560
So you might have for instance
APE group that says we want to

2240
02:09:00,560 --> 02:09:04,800
see sustained 15% EBITDA margin
year over year.

2241
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:06,680
That's what we will judge as
success.

2242
02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:09,560
And when you look, when I look
across the table and I look at

2243
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:12,200
the founder, their eyes are
about this big around because

2244
02:09:12,200 --> 02:09:16,200
they've never sort of processed
it that way is like I have to

2245
02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:20,240
hit the certain target, right.
So then what happens is there's

2246
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:23,840
a fear and there's reaction and
that's the place where those

2247
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:26,800
things usually get sideways.
So if you can be in that space

2248
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:29,720
in between to say, OK, let's
take a pause for a moment.

2249
02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:32,960
You're looking for 15% margin on
this ongoing.

2250
02:09:33,440 --> 02:09:36,960
You're concerned because you
haven't really aimed at that

2251
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:38,680
before and you're not sure how
to measure that.

2252
02:09:39,080 --> 02:09:42,240
Let's put together a structure
that respects both sides of

2253
02:09:42,240 --> 02:09:45,320
what's happening.
And I would say 95% of the time,

2254
02:09:45,320 --> 02:09:48,160
if you can get to the root
concerns, you can get to the

2255
02:09:48,160 --> 02:09:51,240
solution.
It's, it's most of the time I

2256
02:09:51,240 --> 02:09:53,680
find myself thinking, what's the
conversation we're not having

2257
02:09:53,680 --> 02:09:56,480
that we should be.
And because people will will

2258
02:09:56,480 --> 02:09:59,160
react.
And once they're reacting,

2259
02:09:59,160 --> 02:10:02,400
they're not thinking about like,
OK, you know, Oh my God, I'm so

2260
02:10:02,400 --> 02:10:05,240
scared about getting 15%.
Yes.

2261
02:10:05,600 --> 02:10:08,440
But remember, we looked at your
pipeline and you have a customer

2262
02:10:08,440 --> 02:10:11,920
segment that's untouched that
meets exactly what products and

2263
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:14,880
services you offered, but you've
never built a marketing campaign

2264
02:10:14,880 --> 02:10:17,960
to go after them.
So let's talk about how much

2265
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:21,320
money that actually constitutes.
Oh, that.

2266
02:10:21,440 --> 02:10:23,360
That.
Does it for you, you get a

2267
02:10:23,360 --> 02:10:26,680
blended margin about 15% and you
get the revenue target and then

2268
02:10:26,680 --> 02:10:28,320
suddenly the walls start to come
down, right.

2269
02:10:28,320 --> 02:10:30,440
But I I think that's the
conversations you need to be

2270
02:10:30,440 --> 02:10:31,600
having.
Yeah.

2271
02:10:31,960 --> 02:10:33,400
So if.
I'm if.

2272
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:36,320
I'm a company owner, a lighting
company, sound company, rental

2273
02:10:36,320 --> 02:10:40,880
company, whatever.
And I've positioned my company

2274
02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:47,160
to sell and I start having these
companies reaching out to me,

2275
02:10:47,160 --> 02:10:49,360
these private equity groups
reaching out to me.

2276
02:10:50,400 --> 02:10:53,760
First of all, how should I
prepare myself for my company?

2277
02:10:53,760 --> 02:10:56,480
Like what what are the things
that I'm going to need to be

2278
02:10:56,480 --> 02:10:59,600
thinking about?
And obviously this is, you know,

2279
02:10:59,600 --> 02:11:02,920
a week long training coaching
session for you just to go

2280
02:11:02,920 --> 02:11:05,360
through this.
But give me some real high level

2281
02:11:05,360 --> 02:11:11,160
sort of pointers on how can I be
prepared for that first meeting

2282
02:11:11,160 --> 02:11:14,720
with that private equity group
and what are some of the things

2283
02:11:14,960 --> 02:11:18,960
that that I'm going to need to
be thinking about, I guess,

2284
02:11:19,960 --> 02:11:22,200
yeah.
That's a great question, I would

2285
02:11:22,200 --> 02:11:24,960
say.
For a first meeting, you really

2286
02:11:24,960 --> 02:11:28,400
want to be prepared with beta.
They're going.

2287
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:33,000
To want to.
Know quantifiable figures, stats

2288
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:36,480
around what your business is
doing from a, you know, from a

2289
02:11:36,480 --> 02:11:38,960
revenue standpoint, from a
profit standpoint.

2290
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:41,960
Give us some high level
commentary on here's the buckets

2291
02:11:41,960 --> 02:11:44,600
that that revenue arrives in.
What's your revenue mix?

2292
02:11:44,880 --> 02:11:47,280
Tell us a high level overview of
your customers.

2293
02:11:47,520 --> 02:11:49,880
Who are you selling to?
Tell us why any of it matters.

2294
02:11:49,960 --> 02:11:52,840
You know, get me the highlights
of why I should care about

2295
02:11:52,840 --> 02:11:58,200
buying your business.
And I I, my observation is a lot

2296
02:11:58,200 --> 02:12:02,960
of times founders can come to it
with a lot of emotion.

2297
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:05,600
And I would say do your best to
try to just step back from that.

2298
02:12:05,600 --> 02:12:08,080
Know that none of it's an
indictment when they're asking

2299
02:12:08,080 --> 02:12:09,760
questions.
They're asking questions from a

2300
02:12:09,760 --> 02:12:14,200
place of just purely looking at
the numbers and trying to make

2301
02:12:15,240 --> 02:12:18,440
an evaluation from that.
It's not an indictment on

2302
02:12:18,440 --> 02:12:20,280
whether you run a great business
or not.

2303
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:24,200
It's not an indictment on
whether or not your business can

2304
02:12:24,200 --> 02:12:27,200
actually grow the way that you
think it can or whether your

2305
02:12:27,200 --> 02:12:31,040
brand is as loved as you might
emotionally feel connection to

2306
02:12:31,040 --> 02:12:34,360
it.
So I, I would say definitely

2307
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:37,600
organize yourself, come with the
appropriate data and, and there

2308
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:39,960
are, you know, certain data sets
that you're going to want to

2309
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:41,600
have in that, but but come with
that.

2310
02:12:42,040 --> 02:12:43,880
And then also try to take
nothing personally.

2311
02:12:44,120 --> 02:12:48,040
Just just know that this is a
conversation meant to understand

2312
02:12:48,040 --> 02:12:53,160
the fundamentals of the business
and, and, and kind of try to

2313
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:55,480
keep yourself in that space and
you'll have a much better

2314
02:12:55,800 --> 02:12:57,920
experience.
And I would say if there was a

2315
02:12:57,920 --> 02:13:03,440
third thing, be patient.
Know that the process of either

2316
02:13:03,440 --> 02:13:07,040
buying or selling a business has
a lot of ups and downs to it.

2317
02:13:07,440 --> 02:13:13,560
And if you haven't done it
before, a lot of owners, whether

2318
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:16,320
they're on the buy side or the
sell side, if they haven't

2319
02:13:16,320 --> 02:13:18,400
experienced it, tend to think
it's going to go really quickly.

2320
02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:19,960
You know, we had this great
conversation.

2321
02:13:20,240 --> 02:13:22,640
We're going to get an LOI in
place and then we're going to be

2322
02:13:22,640 --> 02:13:24,200
done with this deal at the end
of the month.

2323
02:13:24,800 --> 02:13:29,280
And the challenge there is the
more sophisticated your business

2324
02:13:29,280 --> 02:13:33,600
is and or the more sophisticated
the PE group is, it's going to

2325
02:13:33,600 --> 02:13:36,040
take a little more time.
And there's going to be

2326
02:13:36,040 --> 02:13:40,920
conversations that come up where
somebody might say something

2327
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:44,280
that feels offensive from an
emotional standpoint.

2328
02:13:44,280 --> 02:13:46,400
You know, they'll, they'll be
digging into the numbers.

2329
02:13:46,680 --> 02:13:50,640
And, and what you might hear
instead is you're telling my

2330
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:53,200
business that it's bad, right?
And I've spent 30 years working.

2331
02:13:53,200 --> 02:13:55,080
Your baby's ugly.
Yeah.

2332
02:13:55,280 --> 02:13:57,760
I mean then.
And and so I would say be

2333
02:13:57,760 --> 02:14:00,160
patient with yourself, be
patient with the people that

2334
02:14:00,160 --> 02:14:04,120
you're talking to, assume best
intent, take nothing personally.

2335
02:14:04,520 --> 02:14:08,200
And if you have some other data
that that helps convey your

2336
02:14:08,200 --> 02:14:11,440
point, lean into that rather
than saying, well, you know,

2337
02:14:11,440 --> 02:14:14,120
everybody loves us.
It's it's a bit like going to

2338
02:14:14,120 --> 02:14:16,520
the bank and saying, OK, well,
why should we give you this

2339
02:14:16,520 --> 02:14:18,240
loan?
Well, because we're the best.

2340
02:14:18,760 --> 02:14:21,560
OK, well, tell me why you're the
best to give me something

2341
02:14:21,560 --> 02:14:23,480
specific.
Back that up with a little bit

2342
02:14:23,480 --> 02:14:24,360
of math.
Will you?

2343
02:14:25,720 --> 02:14:26,800
No.
I mean, it's such a.

2344
02:14:26,800 --> 02:14:31,200
Valuable and, and perfect point
that you're making about the

2345
02:14:31,200 --> 02:14:34,640
emotions and, and I want to ask
a follow up sort of question

2346
02:14:34,640 --> 02:14:37,720
about that.
But you know, so many owners

2347
02:14:37,840 --> 02:14:42,440
have really virtually every
owner has slaved to build this

2348
02:14:42,440 --> 02:14:45,880
business for sometimes in, in
the case of many of these

2349
02:14:45,880 --> 02:14:49,560
companies selling, it could be
40 plus years, 50 years

2350
02:14:49,560 --> 02:14:53,920
sometimes.
And, you know, so in their mind,

2351
02:14:54,640 --> 02:14:57,720
you know, I've worked 50 years
to build this thing.

2352
02:14:58,000 --> 02:15:02,240
And you know, therefore it must
be worth $100 million.

2353
02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:06,200
You know, well, probably.
You worked about.

2354
02:15:06,240 --> 02:15:10,720
Five years to build the thing in
the next 45 to, to burn it down

2355
02:15:10,720 --> 02:15:14,560
in a sense too, you know, so,
you know, like the fact that

2356
02:15:14,560 --> 02:15:19,480
you've worked in it for for the
last 50 years really just means

2357
02:15:19,480 --> 02:15:21,280
that it gave you a it gave you a
paycheck.

2358
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:23,640
And yes, you might have been
growing it every year for those

2359
02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:25,360
50 years.
Chances are you weren't.

2360
02:15:25,880 --> 02:15:31,600
And but keeping the emotions out
is so important yet so

2361
02:15:31,600 --> 02:15:34,880
incredibly difficult because
it's your baby.

2362
02:15:34,880 --> 02:15:38,520
You know, you've literally, this
is all you've done the last 50

2363
02:15:38,520 --> 02:15:41,640
years and it must be worth $100
million.

2364
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:44,560
So when they tell you, I'm
sorry, but it's probably worth

2365
02:15:44,560 --> 02:15:48,240
15,000,000 or whatever, you
know, your, your instant

2366
02:15:48,240 --> 02:15:51,240
reaction is to jump across the
table and beat the guy.

2367
02:15:51,240 --> 02:15:54,920
But that's probably not going to
make a deal for you, you know,

2368
02:15:54,920 --> 02:16:02,360
So I mean, it's so why is it,
and is this just part of exactly

2369
02:16:02,360 --> 02:16:05,160
what you're saying right now?
Why is it that in a relatively

2370
02:16:05,160 --> 02:16:10,640
short time, so many founders end
up on the outs with the with the

2371
02:16:10,640 --> 02:16:18,200
private equity guys and the
relationship becomes adverse

2372
02:16:19,000 --> 02:16:21,120
fairly quickly in some
situations.

2373
02:16:21,120 --> 02:16:24,440
And, you know, there are a few
situations I'm aware of where,

2374
02:16:25,360 --> 02:16:28,400
years into it, it's still a
great relationship between the

2375
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:31,280
former owner and the private
equity company.

2376
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:35,040
But what are the things that
tend to make that a problem?

2377
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:43,639
Communication.
And, and having clarity on what

2378
02:16:43,639 --> 02:16:45,639
it is you should be
communicating and when.

2379
02:16:46,320 --> 02:16:49,920
So one of the things that most
of us in the events industry, if

2380
02:16:49,920 --> 02:16:53,120
you, you've been on that side of
it, you're, you're behind the

2381
02:16:53,120 --> 02:16:57,639
scenes, we're really bad.
Most company owners and founders

2382
02:16:57,639 --> 02:17:00,600
in the events industry are
really not wired to get out in

2383
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:03,160
front and shout about their
success and shout about who they

2384
02:17:03,160 --> 02:17:08,959
are and and be really sort of
crisp about.

2385
02:17:08,959 --> 02:17:12,000
All of the.
Pieces, it's just not really the

2386
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:14,280
industry that we're in it that
way, right?

2387
02:17:14,719 --> 02:17:17,520
It it goes better if nobody
notices what we do, right?

2388
02:17:17,520 --> 02:17:19,559
They're looking at the lights
and they're wowing over the

2389
02:17:19,559 --> 02:17:21,799
talents and the incredible
staging, right?

2390
02:17:21,799 --> 02:17:23,799
And so.
So event company owners are by

2391
02:17:23,799 --> 02:17:27,000
nature sort of hard wired to not
go out and shout about

2392
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:33,680
themselves and and they often
have a creative piece about them

2393
02:17:33,680 --> 02:17:35,559
that got them interested in the
industry to begin with.

2394
02:17:36,080 --> 02:17:39,440
Now that's a divergent thought
process from somebody who's

2395
02:17:39,440 --> 02:17:40,680
going to be investing in your
business.

2396
02:17:40,680 --> 02:17:45,600
They're investing in your
business to to capture more

2397
02:17:45,600 --> 02:17:49,440
market share, to grow a brand
that they already have or to

2398
02:17:49,440 --> 02:17:52,680
experience and grow a brand that
they would like to have.

2399
02:17:52,959 --> 02:17:56,240
They want it to be a profitable
add to their portfolio.

2400
02:17:56,240 --> 02:18:00,639
There's very clean things that
they're looking for and where a

2401
02:18:00,639 --> 02:18:05,799
lot of founders tend to start
focusing more and more because

2402
02:18:05,799 --> 02:18:08,120
it's where they've always been.
Is that like, well, I love this

2403
02:18:08,120 --> 02:18:10,879
piece of the business, though.
I got into it because it was

2404
02:18:10,879 --> 02:18:14,480
creative, because I got to go to
the shows, because I got to, to

2405
02:18:14,480 --> 02:18:17,400
have the emotions and the
feelings on the floor at sound

2406
02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:18,480
check.
And those were the thing.

2407
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:20,920
And those are all those are all
great things.

2408
02:18:21,280 --> 02:18:25,120
And so I, I find myself having
this conversation a lot, which

2409
02:18:25,120 --> 02:18:28,920
is you've built a really great
business and we need to

2410
02:18:28,920 --> 02:18:32,719
understand what makes that
really special to you.

2411
02:18:32,719 --> 02:18:34,320
And there's a lot that goes into
that.

2412
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:37,480
But going through that process
with a founder is, is honestly

2413
02:18:37,480 --> 02:18:39,200
one of the very first things
that I do.

2414
02:18:39,559 --> 02:18:42,480
And the reason I think that's
important is because when you're

2415
02:18:42,480 --> 02:18:45,959
communicating back with a
private equity firm on that, you

2416
02:18:45,959 --> 02:18:50,160
can express to them here is what
they feel is really special

2417
02:18:50,160 --> 02:18:53,200
about their business.
Now you've given them context.

2418
02:18:53,200 --> 02:18:55,680
Now you've given them something
to look at because otherwise, in

2419
02:18:55,680 --> 02:18:59,480
the absence of that, they won't
have an automatic appreciation

2420
02:18:59,480 --> 02:19:00,959
by just looking at the numbers,
right?

2421
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:03,680
Sure, you you have a wildly
profitable business or you don't

2422
02:19:03,680 --> 02:19:06,680
and that's great and you can
make a decision on that of

2423
02:19:06,680 --> 02:19:10,040
course, but but I think that's
where things start to kind of

2424
02:19:10,559 --> 02:19:14,680
diverge for them and and then
it.

2425
02:19:14,680 --> 02:19:17,559
Just gets worse because you.
Have an ownership group that's

2426
02:19:17,559 --> 02:19:21,480
saying hey, you're not hitting
targets and instead.

2427
02:19:21,480 --> 02:19:23,200
Of having.
Somebody on the, you know, on

2428
02:19:23,200 --> 02:19:26,040
the on the founder side who's
still participating in the

2429
02:19:26,040 --> 02:19:28,799
business, maybe still, you know,
lead officer in the business,

2430
02:19:29,879 --> 02:19:31,400
the whole.
Cycle of reaction.

2431
02:19:31,400 --> 02:19:34,320
Starts over.
I'm reacting, I'm offended, I'm

2432
02:19:34,320 --> 02:19:36,440
taking it personally.
This feels like an emotional

2433
02:19:36,440 --> 02:19:39,120
attack.
And now, now we're writing

2434
02:19:39,120 --> 02:19:40,120
stories.
This is what we do

2435
02:19:40,120 --> 02:19:41,840
psychologically as humans,
right?

2436
02:19:42,120 --> 02:19:46,559
You think I'm bad, you think I'm
incapable, you think I'm not

2437
02:19:46,559 --> 02:19:48,080
worthy of being this position,
right?

2438
02:19:48,080 --> 02:19:51,840
And so, so then you get
adversarial and there's, there's

2439
02:19:51,840 --> 02:19:54,400
a lot more to it, but these are
very known constructs.

2440
02:19:54,840 --> 02:19:58,040
And there's a good way to stop
that and defuse that bomb from

2441
02:19:58,040 --> 02:19:59,960
happening.
But it's you have to have been

2442
02:19:59,960 --> 02:20:03,680
through it enough times that you
kind of know, OK, everybody at

2443
02:20:03,680 --> 02:20:07,360
the table, this is a bomb and
we're going to defuse it before

2444
02:20:07,360 --> 02:20:09,800
it, it explodes on us.
And here's how we're going to do

2445
02:20:09,800 --> 02:20:11,480
that.
And here's the best way to

2446
02:20:11,480 --> 02:20:14,400
integrate what's happening.
But is there an ideal?

2447
02:20:14,400 --> 02:20:19,240
Period of time that a founder
who is selling their business to

2448
02:20:19,240 --> 02:20:22,640
private equity should expect to
stay in that business where it's

2449
02:20:22,640 --> 02:20:26,760
healthy, it's productive, it's
etcetera, but then they need to

2450
02:20:26,760 --> 02:20:29,880
be planning to move on.
I would say 3.

2451
02:20:30,800 --> 02:20:32,200
Years.
It's fairly ideal.

2452
02:20:32,400 --> 02:20:33,840
Five years.
If.

2453
02:20:33,840 --> 02:20:36,680
You're, if you're really loving
what you're doing and it's a

2454
02:20:36,960 --> 02:20:39,400
really symbiotic relationship
and everybody's having a good

2455
02:20:39,400 --> 02:20:43,200
time, then you might have a lot
to offer in that five year

2456
02:20:43,200 --> 02:20:46,840
period and being really engaged.
I would, I would also say that

2457
02:20:46,840 --> 02:20:50,360
that's another conversation that
I have with founders as a part

2458
02:20:50,360 --> 02:20:53,360
of the what's really important
to you in this exit?

2459
02:20:53,800 --> 02:20:57,400
And most of them will say, well,
I don't mind staying on a bit

2460
02:20:57,400 --> 02:20:59,440
longer if I'm having a good
time.

2461
02:20:59,960 --> 02:21:01,840
Let's talk about what having a
good time looks like for you.

2462
02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:04,640
What is what does that say more?
What does that mean for you?

2463
02:21:04,720 --> 02:21:07,320
You know, and you can, because
you need something really

2464
02:21:07,320 --> 02:21:10,880
specific to be able to
articulate to an ownership

2465
02:21:10,880 --> 02:21:12,960
group.
And, and what I usually find is

2466
02:21:12,960 --> 02:21:15,680
you, you can measure.
OK, so what's having a good time

2467
02:21:15,680 --> 02:21:18,800
for one person is I'd like to
have six weeks of vacation off a

2468
02:21:18,800 --> 02:21:20,840
year.
And I'd like to sort of sprinkle

2469
02:21:20,840 --> 02:21:22,560
that across each of the four
quarters.

2470
02:21:22,560 --> 02:21:25,120
And I'd like to not work more
than X number of hours a week.

2471
02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:27,800
And I want every Friday, right.
Like let's get really specific

2472
02:21:27,800 --> 02:21:31,240
about what you're ask is because
little stuff like that built up

2473
02:21:31,240 --> 02:21:34,360
over time just creates that
resentment between the PE firm

2474
02:21:34,360 --> 02:21:37,800
and your ownership group that's
saying, hey, that guy's never in

2475
02:21:37,800 --> 02:21:39,160
the office.
What's happening?

2476
02:21:39,160 --> 02:21:42,200
Where is that owner's
expectation might have been,

2477
02:21:42,560 --> 02:21:44,920
well, you bought my company.
I'm sort of just here as a

2478
02:21:44,920 --> 02:21:47,400
mentor slash advisor to what's
happening.

2479
02:21:47,920 --> 02:21:51,520
And that that is not a good
place to be at that moment

2480
02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:54,000
because now you've got
completely missed expectation.

2481
02:21:54,000 --> 02:21:56,600
You've got an ownership group
that was counting on hitting

2482
02:21:56,600 --> 02:21:59,200
certain targets as key to them
making the investment.

2483
02:21:59,560 --> 02:22:03,080
And now the person that they
entrusted to to really run that

2484
02:22:03,080 --> 02:22:07,560
ball down the field is, is now
no longer interested in doing

2485
02:22:07,560 --> 02:22:09,600
that.
And that's, you know, it's funny

2486
02:22:09,600 --> 02:22:10,760
but not.
Funny at all.

2487
02:22:10,760 --> 02:22:14,000
It's a terrible, tragic story,
but I won't mention any names or

2488
02:22:14,000 --> 02:22:17,000
get into any detail.
But I saw that happen in in the

2489
02:22:17,000 --> 02:22:20,960
very worst way.
So the owner negotiated a deal

2490
02:22:20,960 --> 02:22:26,200
where he could work remotely and
he could work remotely for, I

2491
02:22:26,200 --> 02:22:31,000
believe it was 80% of the time
he could work remotely. 20% of

2492
02:22:31,000 --> 02:22:35,480
the time he'd be in the office
and but they didn't define what

2493
02:22:35,480 --> 02:22:43,480
that meant and so got the big
check and basically moved to

2494
02:22:43,480 --> 02:22:49,640
another country.
And, and so then they got into a

2495
02:22:49,640 --> 02:22:53,920
bit of a pissing match and an
adversarial situation and, and

2496
02:22:53,920 --> 02:22:57,480
it got a little bit legal.
And, and in that process, you

2497
02:22:57,480 --> 02:23:01,200
know, it was kind of like, well,
you know, you weren't doing your

2498
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:03,200
job anymore.
Yes, I was, I was remote.

2499
02:23:03,800 --> 02:23:07,000
And they said, yeah, but how can
you be remote and run a team and

2500
02:23:07,000 --> 02:23:09,960
a crew and a, you know, a
company and be a part of this

2501
02:23:09,960 --> 02:23:12,600
thing and part of the success
and everything when you don't

2502
02:23:12,600 --> 02:23:16,680
even live in the same country?
Well, that was what I negotiated

2503
02:23:16,680 --> 02:23:18,840
it, you know, it was clear.
It said, I'm going to work

2504
02:23:18,840 --> 02:23:21,880
remote 80% of the time.
I'll be back in June, don't

2505
02:23:21,880 --> 02:23:25,080
worry.
You know, and so, I mean, I

2506
02:23:25,080 --> 02:23:28,360
watched this whole thing unfold
and both sides were right and

2507
02:23:28,360 --> 02:23:32,440
both sides were wrong at which
is probably a perfect shitstorm

2508
02:23:32,760 --> 02:23:35,360
at that point, you know, it was
just a perfect shitstorm.

2509
02:23:35,440 --> 02:23:38,280
Like nobody was going to win.
Nobody was going to come out of

2510
02:23:38,280 --> 02:23:39,880
this alive.
It was just going to be a

2511
02:23:39,880 --> 02:23:42,480
disaster.
And that's how it ended up.

2512
02:23:42,480 --> 02:23:47,200
It ended up they, they finally
fully separated and there was a

2513
02:23:47,200 --> 02:23:52,000
battle over, you know, what some
of the deliverables were meant

2514
02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:57,720
to be and, and that got resolved
in the courts and, and the deal

2515
02:23:57,720 --> 02:24:01,120
ended really ugly, you know, but
it was, it was sad because it

2516
02:24:01,120 --> 02:24:04,720
was all based around something
that I think both sides thought

2517
02:24:04,720 --> 02:24:09,480
they had perfect clarity on, but
neither side did in a sense.

2518
02:24:10,080 --> 02:24:14,800
So, so give me, we've talked for
way too long already.

2519
02:24:14,800 --> 02:24:18,360
So I'm going to give you an out
here, but give me 3 big

2520
02:24:18,360 --> 02:24:20,480
takeaways.
We've talked about 100 different

2521
02:24:20,480 --> 02:24:22,280
things, but give me 3 big
takeaways.

2522
02:24:22,280 --> 02:24:26,080
If I just listened, if I was so
bored that I listened to Todd

2523
02:24:26,080 --> 02:24:30,360
and Marcel talk for two hours
and 6 minutes, right now, give

2524
02:24:30,360 --> 02:24:33,280
me, give me the gold that I can
take away from this talk.

2525
02:24:35,200 --> 02:24:38,120
I would say.
I guess some things to think

2526
02:24:38,120 --> 02:24:43,520
about in this year, if, if you
are a founder, if you're

2527
02:24:43,520 --> 02:24:47,960
operating a, a small business,
you know, under 25,000,000 a

2528
02:24:47,960 --> 02:24:53,000
year and you're in that place of
wondering what the year is going

2529
02:24:53,000 --> 02:24:56,720
to hold.
What I would say is no matter

2530
02:24:56,720 --> 02:25:00,240
where your services are, no
matter what market you're in,

2531
02:25:00,720 --> 02:25:03,760
invest in yourself.
Always be growing and learning

2532
02:25:03,760 --> 02:25:07,200
and surround yourself with
people who who bring that same

2533
02:25:07,200 --> 02:25:11,360
respect and focus and sense of
urgency to the table that you

2534
02:25:11,360 --> 02:25:16,800
can have as partners.
I would say that most people who

2535
02:25:17,920 --> 02:25:19,400
are.
Business.

2536
02:25:19,400 --> 02:25:24,160
Owners, founders, even executive
chairman for boards, portfolio

2537
02:25:24,160 --> 02:25:27,560
company board directors, they've
lived for the three different

2538
02:25:27,560 --> 02:25:32,240
variations of how to run a
company and what what their

2539
02:25:32,240 --> 02:25:34,360
personal bias is.
We all have one, right?

2540
02:25:34,360 --> 02:25:36,560
We all look at our own
experience and say, hey, that's

2541
02:25:36,880 --> 02:25:38,760
the only experience that's ever
been.

2542
02:25:39,400 --> 02:25:44,640
I would, I would say the number
two thing is reach out for

2543
02:25:44,640 --> 02:25:49,160
perspective.
Don't be afraid to find a voice,

2544
02:25:49,520 --> 02:25:56,120
a partner and advisor, a mentor.
Have that person who you trust

2545
02:25:56,400 --> 02:25:59,280
that will be a positive,
productive part of your

2546
02:25:59,280 --> 02:26:02,120
ecosystem, not just anybody, but
somebody that you trust in that

2547
02:26:02,120 --> 02:26:08,120
space that can help infuse some
thoughts, challenge some areas

2548
02:26:08,120 --> 02:26:11,400
and think about it in a, in a
peaceful, positive way.

2549
02:26:11,400 --> 02:26:13,880
I would say don't be afraid of,
of doing that.

2550
02:26:14,160 --> 02:26:17,840
You know, and, and especially if
you're somebody that is already

2551
02:26:17,840 --> 02:26:21,520
feeling overwhelmed, a lot of
people wait too long to say, I

2552
02:26:21,520 --> 02:26:24,680
need help, you know, and a lot
of people are still sitting

2553
02:26:24,680 --> 02:26:27,480
there with sort of those three
things that I shared with, you

2554
02:26:27,480 --> 02:26:30,120
know, do I have more tactical
things on my calendar to do, to

2555
02:26:30,120 --> 02:26:33,160
do today than strategic?
Do I have more than 7 direct

2556
02:26:33,160 --> 02:26:36,520
reports?
Do I have feedback coming from

2557
02:26:36,520 --> 02:26:39,560
my direct reports that maybe I'm
canceling a lot of calls or

2558
02:26:39,560 --> 02:26:41,640
meetings with them or that I
appear overwhelmed?

2559
02:26:42,080 --> 02:26:46,280
These are good indicators that
it's, it's time maybe to think

2560
02:26:46,280 --> 02:26:48,840
differently about what you're
doing in your business and be

2561
02:26:48,840 --> 02:26:52,600
open to that because it won't
change unless you change those

2562
02:26:52,600 --> 02:26:54,760
behaviors.
And as the leader, you're going

2563
02:26:54,760 --> 02:26:57,320
to set the tone.
So I, I would say those are

2564
02:26:57,320 --> 02:27:00,600
really, really key areas.
The last thing I would say is

2565
02:27:01,200 --> 02:27:04,480
workforce development matters.
We're in a point in our industry

2566
02:27:04,480 --> 02:27:07,920
where regardless of whether
you're on the equipment side,

2567
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:10,960
the labor side, if if you're on
that design and build side or on

2568
02:27:10,960 --> 02:27:14,800
the contracting slash
construction side, we are all.

2569
02:27:14,800 --> 02:27:19,720
Looking for people?
Who are capable and can can be a

2570
02:27:19,720 --> 02:27:23,600
part of the projects that need
to move forward if you're a if.

2571
02:27:23,600 --> 02:27:26,800
You're an organization.
That is needing people.

2572
02:27:27,200 --> 02:27:30,840
Remember that one of the the
biggest things we can do is help

2573
02:27:30,840 --> 02:27:32,840
on ramp people into the industry
help.

2574
02:27:32,840 --> 02:27:35,560
Let people know what matters.
Let them know what skills

2575
02:27:35,560 --> 02:27:38,240
matter, what they need.
Give them the road map to be

2576
02:27:38,240 --> 02:27:41,720
successful in that.
So that's that's what I would

2577
02:27:41,720 --> 02:27:43,440
say.
Awesome stuff, awesome stuff.

2578
02:27:43,440 --> 02:27:46,600
And by the way, the number 21,
you're that guy for me.

2579
02:27:46,600 --> 02:27:51,280
So you're, I have two or three
or five, maybe less than 10

2580
02:27:51,640 --> 02:27:54,040
people who I really trust to
have those types of

2581
02:27:54,040 --> 02:27:55,920
conversations with.
And you're one of them.

2582
02:27:56,160 --> 02:27:58,200
And so I appreciate you for that
reason.

2583
02:27:58,600 --> 02:28:03,640
And also because of that, how
can people get in contact with

2584
02:28:03,640 --> 02:28:05,920
you?
And, and folks, this is, this is

2585
02:28:05,920 --> 02:28:10,040
not a paid endorsement.
This is no, this is a personal

2586
02:28:10,040 --> 02:28:11,840
endorsement.
This guy's really good.

2587
02:28:12,600 --> 02:28:15,080
He helped my business.
He continues to help my

2588
02:28:15,080 --> 02:28:16,440
business.
He helps a lot of other

2589
02:28:16,440 --> 02:28:22,320
businesses and smart, you know,
great guy to bring on board.

2590
02:28:22,320 --> 02:28:25,840
So how can people reach you?
I really appreciate that.

2591
02:28:25,960 --> 02:28:29,720
A good way to reach out is
message me on LinkedIn or you

2592
02:28:29,720 --> 02:28:31,240
can.
Contact me on the website.

2593
02:28:31,240 --> 02:28:35,360
At ventanahyphencapital.com or
you can.

2594
02:28:35,360 --> 02:28:37,760
E-mail me at.
T Spencer at

2595
02:28:37,760 --> 02:28:41,760
ventanahyphencapital.com.
Beautiful.

2596
02:28:41,760 --> 02:28:44,840
Thank you SO.
Much for doing this and thanks

2597
02:28:44,840 --> 02:28:48,680
for all the advice and hopefully
people will actually heed some

2598
02:28:48,680 --> 02:28:50,520
of it.
Oh, thanks for having me, I.

2599
02:28:50,520 --> 02:28:51,400
Always love chat.
With you.

2600
02:28:51,400 --> 02:28:52,760
All right, Todd.
Thanks.