#294 - John Huntington

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My brain is exploding.
Just had John Huntington on for

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episode 294 and God, that guy
has a lot of information in his

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brain.
And so fun podcast.

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We talked about photography, we
talked about school, we talked

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about theater, we talked about
music, we talked about AI.

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Of course, we talked about so
many different things and it's

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two hours.
There's a lot, ton of

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information and I think you'll
find it valuable.

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So please enjoy.
And if you don't enjoy it, tell

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Sarah, don't tell me.
Well, hello and thank you for

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coming in here today to join me
for Geese of Gear episode #294.

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This episode is brought to you
by AVL Media Group.

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AVL is one of the leading
distributors of professional

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audio, video and lighting
equipment in North America.

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Please take a moment and watch
the following video with me.

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00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,040
AVL Media Group is an
award-winning distribution

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company that has been
established for over 25 years as

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a trusted brand in the
professional audio, video and

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lighting markets.
Our new state-of-the-art

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facility includes a beautiful
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for demonstrations, training and
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This grants us the opportunity
to share our knowledge and

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provide a unique hands on
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Our large warehouse facilities
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us to keep a vast inventory of
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We can get you what you need,
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Our first class team of industry
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delivering outstanding pre and
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to all our clients, ensuring
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and long term growth.
AVL Media Group, your premier

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North American distribution
partner and episode #294, is

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00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:12,280
also brought to you by Gear
Source, founded in 2002 with a

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00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,040
mission to support live event
businesses to buy and sell gear

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globally.
Since that time, the company has

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transacted in more than 100
countries selling 1/4 billion

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dollars in sound, lighting,
staging and video gear.

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Gear Source continues to evolve
the platform for huge global

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growth, enabling localized
currencies, payments held in

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escrow to protect buyers and
sellers, AI powered logistics

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behind a new global logistics
brand which is called Gear

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Moves, and more.
The company has just released

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massive new features including
gear sync and the ability to

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manage up to 400 listings at
once.

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Plus Need Zone, an automated
shopping assistant for hard to

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00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,800
find items.
And there's some big stuff

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coming soon too.
I will tell you.

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Take full control over your gear
with a visit to gearsource.com

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00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:39,660
today.
Hello and thanks for coming.

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Appreciate you being here.
And just because I will forget

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at the end, Please remember to
like and subscribe and comment

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and share and all of those
things because it is you and

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those actions that help us to
grow this podcast.

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We're very appreciative not only
to our sponsors, but to you, our

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00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,800
listeners.
So please like, subscribe, share

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00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,080
these podcasts.
And The funny thing is it's

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amazing when I find out how many
people there are out there that

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we haven't reached yet.
I talked to people constantly

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and I see people forward the
podcast constantly to someone

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else who hadn't heard it.
And actually today's guest,

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which I'll tell you about in a
few minutes, is one of those

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people.
He somebody shared the podcast

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with him and said, hey, you
might want to check this out.

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You'll know some of these people
that are on it and he said he's

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been on a binge ever since.
He's listened to every episode,

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has enjoyed most of them and
it's probably entire entirely

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sick of my voice.
So this podcast today might push

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him over the limit and he may
say I never want to hear geese

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of gear again.
I don't think so.

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I think we're going to have a
great talk today.

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So as I talked to you, Nam just
happened last weekend and with

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that the Parnelli's.
And so one of the cool things is

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the Parnelli Awards were filled
with geezers, guests, former

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guests on our show, including
the MC and host himself,

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Marshall Bissette.
Marshall was a guest on Geez of

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Gear and hopefully will be again
because I really like the guy

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and I think he's got an
incredible story and he's a good

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storyteller and just a nice guy.
So yeah, Marshall was the MC.

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I think he took a shot at humor
a few times and I don't know if

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he passed or failed.
Maybe you guys can comment and

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let me know.
One of the show's good friends

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and also my own good friends,
Cosmo Wilson, of course, the the

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deserved and incredible
recipient of so many awards.

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But he got the, I believe
Lighting Director of the Year

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for his work on ACDC, Very cool.
And of course his his acceptance

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speech, which I've seen through
Cosmos Socials and you can see

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it if you go on his Facebook or
Instagram.

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But he was very grateful,
thanked all the right people.

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And he's such a humble, great
guy and that's why he has so

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many friends.
And one of my favourites was

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John Featherstone accepting
again a very deserved Lighting

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Designer of the Year award.
But he was far, far out of town

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and outside of the country with
his great client and good friend

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Hans Zimmer, who did a pretty
funny thing.

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They put a skit together, the
two of them and Hans was

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pretending that he was John
Featherstone accepting the

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award.
And again, go check that out on

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on John Featherstone's Facebook
page.

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It's it's really funny and well
worth the watch.

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But congratulations, John.
One of the industry's most

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talented, but also most
incredibly humble and and kind

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individuals.
Just a super kind person, former

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leading ladies guest and a good
friend of my, I won't call her

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my Co host because she hosts
another part of our podcast

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called Leading ladies.
But Sarah, our producer is good

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friends with Colleen Wittenberg
and Colleen got video director

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of the year.
That's a huge, huge

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accomplishment and
congratulations to Colleen.

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Again, from what I'm told, and I
don't know you very well except

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for what I heard on this
podcast, but supposedly very

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well deserved and, and you're a
great person and all of that

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stuff.
So congratulations to you Roy

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Bickel, who officially has never
been on the podcast, but will be

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soon and but was part of the
Dining with dinosaurs thing.

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Roy won the visionary award and
you know, Speaking of

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visionaries, he's one of the
originals being the godfather of

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of rock'n'roll rigging.
And so congratulations to Roy

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and but also I think upstaging
one for trucking company,

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company of the year, as I think
they're they win almost every

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year.
They're like a write in on that

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one.
And so yeah, lots and lots of

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other companies who were very
friendly with but maybe haven't

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been guests on our show yet.
But Sarah, get on it.

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Look at that list and find those
people that haven't been on yet.

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And congratulations to everyone.
You know, honestly, my personal

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feelings aside towards some of
the management or ownership of

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the company, I think that these
guys do a great job of putting

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on the Parnelli's every year.
It really has become one of the,

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if not the sort of pinnacle
awards show for our industry.

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And so I'm grateful for the work
and effort that they put on and

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and for the product that they've
built.

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However, I do have a
disagreement with the fact that

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it's at Nam and so do most of
the people who go to it.

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I heard from probably 20 people
prior to the Parnelli's.

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I can't believe we have to go
here every year.

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It's so stupid.
You know, Nam is not our show.

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And as much fun as it is to walk
around and say hello to artists

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you know or people you might
know that don't really have a

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lot to do with what you're
doing, I just think there's a

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harder business case to be made
for being at Nam.

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When you're in our industry,
whether you're a sound or

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lighting company or certainly if
you're a production manager, a

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manager, a lighting designer,
you know, there's just less and

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less reasons to be at Nam.
I know that Nam have worked very

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hard to try to bring the
lighting community into it and

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the professional sound community
into it where where I think

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they've had a little better
success, but it's just not our

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show.
And the other thing is it's

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almost like music.
Mesa in, in Europe has always

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been where we're a small part of
the show and you got to deal

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with a huge audience, very
difficult to get hotel rooms,

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expensive rental cars, tough
flights, all of that stuff to be

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at that show versus like LDI or
Infocom specifically LDIISE the

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shows where they are very much
our shows, you know, they're,

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we're their target audience.
And those are the shows where I,

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I think we should have these
types of events.

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So I know there's some, I
believe personal feelings

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between PLS NS owner founder and
or not PLSN.

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Yeah, PLSN who, who own the
Parnelli Awards.

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But there's, there's some
animosity there, I guess you

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would call it, or issues between
him and LDI.

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I'd love to see that worked out.
And I'd like to see the

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Parnelli's back at LD.
I, I think that's where it

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belongs.
That way I can go to it 'cause

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I'm not going to go to Nam just
to go to the Parnelli's.

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And, and I think a lot more
other people in the industry

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would like to go as well.
So yeah, that's just my personal

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feeling.
Other people can comment on your

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own, I guess.
And my one AI thing today that I

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wanted to talk about is, is, as
I record this very recent news

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is a Chinese company called
Deep, say Deep Seek has started

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up.
They actually started a couple

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years ago, I think, but they've
just really launched in a pretty

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big way and launched their
latest product.

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They are an AI competitor to
like the Chat GPTS and Grocs and

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Clod and all the other companies
out there.

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And apparently it works very
well.

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I haven't used it.
I've used it in the background

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on products like Perplexity, but
I haven't used it directly.

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Like I haven't gone on to their
app and and got the look and

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feel of it all.
But their claim to fame is

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basically that they use roughly
85 or 90% less processing power.

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And if you've been paying
attention to AI, the biggest

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cost, the biggest challenge, the
biggest growth inhibitor is the

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processing, the compute power.
And so they're roughly 90% less

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compute to do the same thing.
So basically they can, in

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layman's terms, they can do the
same thing as ChatGPT, but at

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roughly, you know, 7080% less
cost, 90% less compute power,

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which also means they're not
competing with other companies

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over this compute.
And so that is remarkable.

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And that's obviously probably
going to be the tipping point

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for a bit of a revolution on how
things are done in AI.

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I'm guessing there's some IP
there and it'll be hard for

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other companies to copy, but I'm
sure that other companies are

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now going to have to become as
efficient as them.

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This is going to to be one of
those those moments that matters

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when it comes to wow.
That was the point where AI got

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a lot cheaper and a lot easier
was when this company, deep,

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deep seek came out with their
product.

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And so the immediate impact is
that my wonderful shares in

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NVIDIA dropped by 17% virtually
instantly.

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And some predict that it's going
to tank that that stock could do

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much, much worse.
And by the way, I'm not giving

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stock advice, so don't buy or
sell based on anything.

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I'm telling you.
I'm just an idiot talking shit.

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But my stock did drop.
I don't own a lot of it.

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I don't own a lot of any stock.
I'm just not a stock guy.

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But the stock price did drop and
it dropped based on the fact

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that, you know, NVIDIA has been
basically ramping up all their

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production and their ability to
build more and more of these

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devices to power a much larger
footprint for these AI

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companies.
And all of these AI companies,

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Google and, and open AI, ChatGPT
and Claude, and all of these

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businesses really have been
investing massively in

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infrastructure, which now they
may not need, or at least they

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don't need 80% or 85% of it
potentially, you know, if, if

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this continues going down this
path.

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So we'll see.
But it's, it's a very big thing

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to watch this deep seek.
What a terrible name.

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It's hard for Americans to say.
Maybe maybe in China where this

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company comes from, it's easier
to say but I keep wanting to say

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deep fake or deep sake or deep
stuff but not deep seek.

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Sorry I got a bit of a allergy
thing going today so you're

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00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,280
going to hear me sniffle a bit.
So anyways, it's a big deal and

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00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,320
and we should all be paying
attention.

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00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,760
And as a funny side note, I
asked ChatGPT specifically.

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00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,720
This is exactly what I asked.
What is deep Seek and why is

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00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:24,640
everyone freaking out?
And so I'm using the paid model

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00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,760
of ChatGPT.
I'm not using a free 1 and I'm

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00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:34,240
using A1, which is their latest.
And so the response that it gave

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00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,080
me back and I took a screenshot
because it's crazy, is that it

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00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,920
thought for 17 seconds.
And the answer that it finally

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00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:47,360
gave me was, I don't know.
And this is crazy because

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00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,400
Perplexity, which is one of the
competitors to ChatGPT, gave me

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00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,520
a very long, very thorough
response telling me exactly who

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00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,280
Deepseek was, the good, the bad,
the ugly, and everything in

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00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,080
between.
And so I don't know if this has

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00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,160
to do with bias or with the fact
that maybe ChatGPT is getting

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00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,880
their ass kicked a little bit
right now by this new

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00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,320
competitor.
They're just a little hostile

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00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:15,960
about it.
I don't know what it was, but I

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00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,120
used Perplexity.
I got a very long answer.

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00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,840
Apparently Perplexity also has a
partnership with Deep Seek,

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00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,480
where Deep Seek is one of the AI
models that feeds it with its

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00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,280
responses.
And but interesting, definitely

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00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,080
something that I found to be
pretty interesting.

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00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,280
I'm guessing that by the end of
today, that will be different.

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00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,880
And so if you go on ChatGPT and
search the same thing, you might

248
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,440
get a much better result than I
did, but that's what I got.

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00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,600
So anyway, today's guest, John
Huntington is an entertainment

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00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,200
technology expert, educator,
author, and photographer with

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00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,520
over three decades of experience
in show control, sound, and

252
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,360
networking systems.
Holding an MFA from Yale School

253
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,960
of Drama and ABFA from Ithaca
College, he's worked as a

254
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:09,359
tenured professor at NYC College
of Technology, systems engineer

255
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,720
for major productions, and
consultant on projects like Blue

256
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,880
Man Group and Nike Town.
A prolific author, his books

257
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,720
include show networks and
Control systems, which I did

258
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:27,920
look into, and industry staples.
Now a professor emeritus, which

259
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,560
I probably say wrong because
I've never been 1, he continues

260
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,200
to shape the field through
consulting, writing, and

261
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,960
photography.
So this guy's smart is what I

262
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,760
get from all of that, but also
very interesting.

263
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,720
I looked into a lot of his
stuff, his his photography

264
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,160
sites, his just a lot of his
stuff.

265
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,040
And this guy's done some
incredible things.

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00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,280
So I'm, I'm pretty, pretty
excited to welcome John

267
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,760
Huntington to the podcast.
John, how are you?

268
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,280
Good, thanks so much for having
me on.

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00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,600
Happy Tuesday.
Is it Tuesday?

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00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,160
Well, I I've lost track.
Sarah just changed up our

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00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,240
recording schedule.
It used to be Wednesdays and

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00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,720
Thursdays.
Now it's Tuesdays and

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00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,360
Wednesdays.
So it completely screws up my

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00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:14,360
whole week.
I don't even know where I'm at.

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00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,240
I appreciate you, you coming on
and doing this.

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00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,880
So you're, you're one of the few
people that I, I didn't know

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00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:28,000
prior to this and I always
really enjoy sort of getting to

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00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,760
know someone as I'm doing the
podcast as opposed to I already

279
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,760
know all of your, where all your
bodies are buried and stuff.

280
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,240
And, and you're just coming on
to confess to the rest of the

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00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,160
world.
So yeah, this, this is going to

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00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,680
be interesting.
And, and, you know, just

283
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,960
reviewing, first of all, so
everyone knows John sent us an

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00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:51,200
e-mail a month ago or so and
just hold us a whole big long

285
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,560
story in this e-mail and, and
shared some books with us and

286
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,240
all kinds of stuff that he'd
done.

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00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,120
And then he says, by the way, I
for the podcast to be a guest, I

288
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,920
nominate me.
And, and so that got Sarah's

289
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,880
attention and they got into
conversation.

290
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,680
And so here we are.
I'm glad, glad you were able to

291
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,400
to come on and do this.
Yeah.

292
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,680
And I figured we must have met
at some point because the I

293
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,960
remember you telling and somehow
I missed this whole podcast

294
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,080
during the pundit very pandemic.
Yeah, but I remember you telling

295
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,920
a story about that.
I think it was the Martin party

296
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,920
with Casey and the Sunshine
Band.

297
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,800
Yeah.
And I think I was working for

298
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,640
LDI or Lighting Dimensions back
then.

299
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,080
I, I remember being at that
party and I just went around

300
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,360
that.
I think you must have come to

301
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,160
Production Arts when I was
working there too.

302
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,440
So yeah, yeah, I, well,
actually, you know, news flash,

303
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,160
Mr. Steve Terry's coming on very
soon too, so we've been talking

304
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,560
about him coming on and doing
it, so that should be fun as

305
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,000
well.
I, I've always just had such a

306
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,320
high degree of respect for that
company, not only because they

307
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,960
were one of the original like
call it integrators or whatever,

308
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,040
but just because of how well
they did everything they did,

309
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,200
you know?
I think everybody I work sadly,

310
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,240
Sky Mike Way just passed away
recently, but he was younger

311
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,680
than one.
He's a little bit older than me,

312
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,200
I guess.
But everybody from the group

313
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,400
that I, I worked there in some
time in the 90s for a few years

314
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,800
and every single person I think
I work with in that group is

315
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,880
still in the industry somewhere.
And that's cool.

316
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,560
And that was, you know, Steve
and John McGraw that ran that

317
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,280
place.
And I worked in Steve's group.

318
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,360
Yeah, yeah, it was an amazing
place to work.

319
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,680
And I also, I think I was lucky
both there and my whole career.

320
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,560
I think I was lucky in just
being in the industry at a time

321
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,840
where there's like a lot of cool
stuff happening and.

322
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,480
Just, you know, well and you
know, again, going through your

323
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,800
pictures and stuff, the
evolution that you've seen in

324
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,560
all kinds of different things,
which we'll talk about, but but

325
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,960
you know, back to production
arts, like just I remember the

326
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,160
very first time I went, there
was probably 92 or three or

327
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,880
something and just looking
around in the white spotless

328
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,080
floors and and you know, just
like the place seemed more like

329
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,640
a medical lab than than a
lighting shop.

330
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,480
You know it was.
Must have been in the New Jersey

331
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:10,520
office.
And I was.

332
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,680
Yeah. 11th Ave.
It wasn't.

333
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,440
No, I started working at what is
still in Manhattan.

334
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,120
Yeah.
And 11th Ave.

335
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,520
At a it wasn't spotless that I
mean it was very well kept, but

336
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,480
it's just an old building which
of course later got turned into

337
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,960
a data center like now I think
it's a luxury apartments or

338
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,160
something.
Now, this was maybe even later,

339
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,560
like maybe 9495, probably not
long before they were acquired.

340
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,200
And it was spotless.
Like it literally was probably

341
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,600
the cleanest shop I had ever
been in.

342
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,280
And just, you know how intense
that company was about just

343
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,440
everything being so good to hear
cats very active on your desk.

344
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,200
I.
Know she and we woke her up from

345
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,600
her nap.
So oh.

346
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,280
Oh, well, shame on us.
Yeah.

347
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,000
You know, how dare we do a
podcast?

348
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,080
And then we love her nap.
So yeah.

349
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,480
I mean, I don't even know where
to start with you.

350
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,080
You've done so many things, it's
wild.

351
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,160
So you, you you went to college?
Yeah, yeah.

352
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,320
And I think I, I, well, I
started because my first concert

353
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,960
was Led Zeppelin.
And the, that was my dream as a

354
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,600
kid that was to go on tour with,
you know, the band like that.

355
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,840
And it's funny that in my high
school, you had to do like a

356
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,800
senior project.
And I wrote to Shoko and I was,

357
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,840
wanted to be an intern there.
And I got a rejection letter.

358
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,640
I was, you know, 16 or whatever.
And then years later, I posted

359
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,800
that on Facebook.
And the woman who signed the

360
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,400
letter was actually on Facebook.
And now she's like my friend.

361
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,040
She's retired somewhere in
Florida.

362
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,560
But yeah, it's just funny.
Small world.

363
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,120
And in those days that was, you
know, theatre school was only

364
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:51,000
options.
So I went to Ithaca College and

365
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,160
did a lot of interesting stuff.
I don't know, I can just, I can

366
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,520
just keep going.
If you want to go.

367
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,000
Yeah, go.
And the when we and we just had

368
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,720
a really interesting group where
we were, I think we went to it

369
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,320
was my first USITT and I'm
terrible at dates, so I'm

370
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,240
probably going to get these
wrong.

371
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,720
But like 1984 a bunch of us
drove down to Orlando from

372
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,600
Ithaca and, you know, did the
usual college student thing, but

373
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,280
that was like the first time.
Like we brought back all this

374
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,800
information about theater safety
and tried pigment pain and

375
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,120
electrical stuff.
And, and we, and I remember the,

376
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,880
it's just that like just to kind
of talk about the time that was

377
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,720
there, like I set up a tour,
there was NCR cash register

378
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,920
factory across from the school
and I set up a tour to go look

379
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,520
at their CAD system, which was
like $100,000, you know, thing

380
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,440
with like a light pen and all
that kind of stuff.

381
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,280
Yeah, and that's.
We, we, you know, that we didn't

382
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,640
have any of that stuff, but we
were starting to see it and then

383
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,760
we did a bunch of special
effects stuff and then on our

384
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,920
while we're in school like we
did and looking back like it

385
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,840
just amazing.
We didn't all kill ourselves the

386
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,200
the insane things that we did.
And then we went on a senior

387
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,040
college trip here to New York.
And I've been in New York now

388
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,480
3035 years and saw Sunday in the
Park with George and we kind of

389
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,320
talked our way that which had
this Chrome loom in it, which

390
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,680
was lasers and Bran, Bran Ferran
who I ended up working for.

391
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,440
I think he's probably right.
He says that's the first image

392
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,200
mapping.
It was on film.

393
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,280
So you can't call it like video
mapping because they did all

394
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,400
those pre rendered stuff and
projected on the sphere and it

395
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,000
was pretty crazy.
And we kind of like, you know,

396
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,480
talk somehow got past the prop
guy, you know, mopping the stage

397
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,480
after the show.
And I wrote down the phone

398
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,760
number on the chroma loom and
started calling them up like

399
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,040
every week.
And I'm like, I want to work

400
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,920
for, I want to work for you.
And I always just tell my

401
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,360
students a story.
Like I literally had one more

402
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,200
week until graduation and they
kept like, yeah, kid, whatever.

403
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,600
And then the last week they're
like, can you Weld?

404
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,320
And in those days I was a decent
welder and I'm like, yeah.

405
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,960
And I'm like.
And so there was a whole lot of

406
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,760
stuff that just happened at the
shop and I'm like, can they're

407
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,880
like, can you start tomorrow?
And I'm like, well, I graduate

408
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,040
Saturday.
How about Monday?

409
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,480
So hilarious.
I started there and then I ended

410
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,600
up working on with with brand
Fair and the company was called

411
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,440
Associates and Farren back in
those days.

412
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,560
Yeah.
And we and just, it was just a

413
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,120
crazy time.
It's really the end of the

414
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,280
mechanical effects here.
And like I went to the myth

415
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,360
Buster shop years later and
talked to Jamie Hyneman about

416
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,320
like, did you ever hear this
place called Socies apparent?

417
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,000
He's like, Oh yeah, I applied
there.

418
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,240
They didn't, they didn't hire
me.

419
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,520
So it's.
Like that's wild.

420
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,960
We were in that world because I
was watching that show.

421
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,480
I was like, that's what our shop
was like.

422
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,400
Yeah.
And, and Brandon was just an

423
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,520
amazing guy, just the more
genius that I've ever been

424
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,160
around in my life since then.
He seemed to have done some

425
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,800
incredible stuff.
Just looking through the what

426
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,520
you provided to me, he did some
incredible stuff and for you to

427
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,760
have been a part of that was was
pretty cool.

428
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,760
Yeah, I was really just a kid
with a soldering iron, you know,

429
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,560
willing to go anywhere and work
20 hours a day and all that kind

430
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:54,440
of stuff.
Yeah.

431
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,840
And I was just hired as a
welder.

432
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,320
And I eventually I just went
back and I went back at

433
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,640
lunchtime every day and talked
to the controls people.

434
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,560
And then they were like,
eventually we worked in this

435
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,040
movie called the Manhattan
Project.

436
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,800
And I actually in as an extra
operating a laser.

437
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,120
And then when that wound up,
there was a bunch of layoffs.

438
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,320
And I ended up the guy who was
laying everybody off.

439
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,120
He was gone and I was still
there and I stayed there for a

440
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,960
few years and got to do Little
Shop of Horrors, the other big

441
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,200
feature film.
Did a bunch of feature films and

442
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,680
then we built film timecode
control film projectors for Pink

443
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,920
Floyd and Rodger Waters and
Rush, all these people and doing

444
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,480
all that.
And again, I'm, you know, I

445
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,280
wasn't, I ended up like learning
a lot about the control systems

446
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,040
and stuff.
And that's basically like that

447
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,400
kind of thing is what I've been
doing one version of that, you

448
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,280
know, since then.
Yeah.

449
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,640
And but yeah, it was a crazy
time.

450
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,240
And we just, I'm very fortunate.
We just got to work on all this

451
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,000
incredible stuff.
Yeah.

452
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,680
Do you mind if I share some of
these pictures?

453
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:02,200
Oh sure, because I find them to
be pretty incredible people.

454
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,560
Listening on audio won't know
what's.

455
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,320
Up No, people listening on audio
won't know much about what we're

456
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,160
what we're looking at here.
But hang on a SEC.

457
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,160
Let me just get control over
what I'm looking at here.

458
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,880
Not that.
OK where'd that go?

459
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,680
I can't get a hold of the page.
That's interesting.

460
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:41,590
One second.
So yeah, I just wanted to poke

461
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:43,950
around at a few of these
pictures because there's some

462
00:27:44,350 --> 00:27:47,630
some incredible stuff here on
John's visual resume.

463
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:50,470
So if if anyone wants to
actually go to this page and

464
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:55,720
look at this stuff, the web, the
URL is Control Group control

465
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:03,560
geek.net/visual Dash Resume and
so tell us some of this stuff.

466
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,840
So this home lighting system
first is is kind of interesting.

467
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,920
Yeah.
So in the, I grew up in a really

468
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,120
small town on the Eastern Shore
of Maryland, which is it's still

469
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,040
pretty isolated.
I mean, it's obviously a much

470
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,920
different world today.
But I like I said, I saw Led

471
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,360
Zeppelin and I wanted to do
that.

472
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,640
And I just sort of like, you
know, my mother was, was getting

473
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,080
a master's degree from the
University of Maryland across

474
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,520
the Bay.
And I would go over there to the

475
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,120
bookstore and like, buy the, you
know, the two books that were

476
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:32,600
available.
And then I just kind of figured

477
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,120
it out.
He ended up really, again, all

478
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:38,040
this stuff is incredibly
dangerous now, but I end up I

479
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,920
made my own little lighting
system for my brother's bands

480
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,640
and stuff.
We would play at the Firehouse

481
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,440
now was showed the little set up
in our garage there Yeah I just

482
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,800
the one thing I'll point out
there's three flash pots on the

483
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,240
bottom that were run on line
voltage which anybody that knows

484
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,600
they should be horrified by and
I was like 1514.

485
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,520
I know what I was doing.
Well, you know what's really.

486
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,920
Funny, John, you were just a
much smarter version of me

487
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,800
because I had the exact same
flash pots, Yeah, that were line

488
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,480
voltage as well.
And we used a little like a high

489
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,720
beam switch from a car like back
in the 70s when we had high beam

490
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,680
switches, we used a high beam
switch as the trigger.

491
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:25,800
And I had a very similar, but
not as sexy control box as

492
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,880
yours, like almost identical to
be perfectly honest, and made-up

493
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,400
of switchers.
And I think same thing.

494
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,880
We had like 1 dimmer.
Yeah, you know, I mean, it's

495
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,040
hilarious how similar this is to
what my first lighting rig was.

496
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,160
But I just say in the.
Flash spots.

497
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,200
Being in the east shore of
Maryland, we couldn't get any

498
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,440
real pyro stuff, but you could
easily get black powder.

499
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,000
So.
So we used to, yeah.

500
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,040
It's like just shooting on.
Black powder and these things.

501
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,200
And it was in the Luckily we did
the, you know, the dances my

502
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,440
brother was playing out and
stuff.

503
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,440
We're in the volunteer
Firehouse, so if we set the

504
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,320
thing on fire, which we luckily
did, it's hilarious.

505
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,360
They would have just come
upstairs and, you know, put it

506
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,680
out.
But, well, it's kind of funny

507
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,800
that.
They let you do it.

508
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,720
Oh.
You know, the 70s, like,

509
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,920
everyone's just excited.
Nobody really knew any better, I

510
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,040
think.
Yeah, Yeah.

511
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,520
Now, you know, kids today you
could buy all this for 100 bucks

512
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,960
on Amazon.
Yeah.

513
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,840
And then the the next photo you
have up is the the my first day

514
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,920
on the job at Association Baron.
I thought, yeah, the brand for

515
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,880
some reason had a surplus
electron microscope in the

516
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,560
trailer, so yeah, of.
Course.

517
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,480
Brand bought all this stuff at
Los Alamos.

518
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,240
So this movie, the Manhattan
Project, was about a kid.

519
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,000
And again, you wouldn't make
this, you know, post 911, but

520
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,760
it's about a kid who makes a
nuclear bomb and brings it to a

521
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,440
science fair.
It's actually a pretty fun

522
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,800
movie.
So he went to Los Alamos and

523
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,000
bought all the surplus, you
know, non radioactive, you know,

524
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,520
stuff.
And that's what became the set.

525
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,160
So we would just Weld it into
the set.

526
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,680
So like, oh, an electron
microscope.

527
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,920
That's what it is, Yeah.
I mean, all of this stuff, it's

528
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,920
just like, what the heck, Yeah,
you had.

529
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,280
No idea what you were.
Photographing back then, I mean,

530
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,960
or I guess you did.
But Fast forward to now.

531
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,840
It's like, whoa, yeah.
All.

532
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Of it's a much just I don't.
Know and I've written I'm we can

533
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,520
talk about this eventually but
in 2019 I wrote a couple

534
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,360
articles about how the industry
is really kind of matured and

535
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,720
you know in these days really
nobody knew what they're doing

536
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,240
so it's like this is 1980 mid
1980s so yeah, if you're going

537
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,880
to make a set you just Weld it
up out of steel in the backyard.

538
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,080
This is on East Hampton, Long
Island, which is a crazy place

539
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,920
to have a scene, you know,
special effects scene shop.

540
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,320
But that's where brand grew up,
so.

541
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,360
I mean, so many incredible
pictures in here, but people can

542
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,320
go through it on their own
because like you said, this

543
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,360
isn't so good on radio.
But one of the ones I wanted to

544
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,720
get to here, I mean, some of
these are just incredible.

545
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,800
Like this.
This touring film projector

546
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,000
blows my mind.
Yeah.

547
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,480
And so this was.
What's what's being pictured

548
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,240
here is it's AI.
Think that's just, I don't

549
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,160
remember if that was 70mm or 65
or 35.

550
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,760
But yeah.
So brand and the team there,

551
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920
they they wanted to put, you
know, there was no video

552
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,920
projector in those days was just
like how terrible it's going to

553
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,680
be.
But film projector is pretty

554
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,160
good.
It was, again, that was a mature

555
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,960
technology.
So he took like a, you know, a

556
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,520
big, you know, professional film
projector out of movie theater,

557
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:32,520
but then put it in a frame that
actually he took a truck Air

558
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,240
cat, not air casters.
What's it called?

559
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,080
The air ride cylinders like you
put on a tractor trailer and

560
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,360
mounted the projector on those.
And the thing actually in the

561
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,000
basement had a air compressor.
And what you would do is you'd

562
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,600
when at the end of the night,
the end of the show, you deflate

563
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,720
these things.
They the projector would lower

564
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,160
down onto these little airbags,
right?

565
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,040
And then riding the truck that
way.

566
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,080
And then when you get to the
next venue, you run the

567
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,640
compressor, you pump it back up
because it needs to be stable.

568
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,360
And they survived.
Yeah, and I, I.

569
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,280
Was on tour with one of these
once for an Elvis show, and it

570
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,480
went, there was an argument with
the electrician and the the

571
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,200
whole projector went off the
dance floor.

572
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,120
The truck, people remember what
that was like.

573
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,720
Wow.
That's like a foot off.

574
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,240
The thing just fell down because
the guy pulled out of the dock

575
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,680
and it was fine.
You know, things were a little

576
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,000
rounded up.
Yeah.

577
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,440
And then one of the ones I read.
Yeah.

578
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,720
This.
One here was it was Pink Floyd

579
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,080
65 millimetre.
So 65 is what you shoot and 70

580
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,280
millimetres is the with the the
soundtrack on the outside.

581
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,680
So that's what's presented, but
actually shoots 65.

582
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,920
Yeah.
So and then the things to a

583
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,520
couple of things that he did was
very innovative was one, these

584
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,840
were all synchronized so you
could have multiple rejectors.

585
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,480
And in those days, I was sorry,
I'm looking, I just saw a

586
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,280
control panel that I built
looking at this is like 40 years

587
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,080
ago now.
So in those days you would

588
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,080
actually just use synchronous
motors and you just line up all

589
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,560
the film to the same like a tab
on the on the gate of the

590
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,680
projector and then you press go
and you run them off the same

591
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,400
three phase AC drive and then
they all come up together.

592
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,240
You just can't go too fast.
And that way they would stay

593
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,600
synchronized.
Wow.

594
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,639
And then so you could do
multiple projectors that way,

595
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:14,159
all frame locked.
And then on top of that, then

596
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,280
they figured out a way to make
these chase time code.

597
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,880
So they initially put the time
code on the film and then that

598
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,840
there's a lot of it's audience
are like wow and flutter in the

599
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,199
projector because you have this
intermittent and the film is

600
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,760
kind of blasting around.
So as a time code source, it's

601
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,480
not great, but they so they
figured out, I mean, everybody

602
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,000
tried that because you're just
sticking on the optical track of

603
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,920
the film and then the audio
would be like, you know, it's

604
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,760
quite right.
So so that didn't work.

605
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,199
So you had to do it the other
way around.

606
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,840
And they figured out how to do
that was on an IBM luggable PC

607
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,360
and that thing had like a 7000
Watt xenon lamp in it.

608
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,960
And to get those going, that's
DC, the lamp voltage of the

609
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,600
xenon lamp.
But to get it going is like a

610
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,560
super high voltage thing to
break the arc down.

611
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,240
When we would strike the lamp,
the computer would just reboot

612
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,720
itself, even if it was like 50
feet away.

613
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,280
So that's wild.
But inside the projector.

614
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,760
Is actually APLC program a logic
controller and that thing didn't

615
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,120
care that would just run
forever.

616
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,920
And that's how I that was the
first things I was programming

617
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,200
like but you draw the ladder
logic out on a yellow pad and

618
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,520
then type it in like assembler.
That is wild.

619
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,800
That's wild.
The other one that really blew

620
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,960
my mind was, you know, and I I
was there for this one.

621
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Like it, it wasn't that long
ago, but was all this Treasure

622
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,360
Island stuff.
Yeah.

623
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,360
Because I remember when that
hotel opens, like, you know, I

624
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,400
was probably there for an LDI
show or I think I might have

625
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,360
sold some lighting to it or
something.

626
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,440
I can't remember.
But.

627
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:50,920
But yeah, I remember when this
opened.

628
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,120
And you look at the pictures now
and it's just so long ago, you

629
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,680
know everything.
Looks.

630
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,440
Different.
Oh yeah, and you show my picture

631
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,240
now looking.
Down the strip, like it's kind

632
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,680
of hard to believe, but yeah,
just to fill in the gap.

633
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,160
So I was at Associates and
Farren for three years and then

634
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,760
I left there and I went to Yale
Drama School because I thought I

635
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,640
want to be a production manager.
Yeah.

636
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,360
And it turned out I didn't want
to be.

637
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,720
Ended up doing a lot of sound
stuff and continue to control

638
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:20,800
things and then I my first job,
the 1990 I first job in New York

639
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,920
was at theatre crafts and
lighting dimensions as a

640
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,400
technical editor.
I think it's the only job I ever

641
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,280
got with a resume my entire
career with Pam McKay and Ellen

642
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,760
Lampert, who you interviewed.
I I learned a lot about her and

643
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:32,640
hers.
Yeah.

644
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:33,880
That I was there for a few
years.

645
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,920
And that was a great job because
you can just call up anybody and

646
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,240
talk to them about like, oh,
what is this thing, you know?

647
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,720
And, and then after that, so one
of the people that was an

648
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:46,160
advisor on my thesis from Yale
was Steve Terry, who you just

649
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,200
mentioned.
And then Steve's like, hey, we

650
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,200
got a position for you and ended
up going out there.

651
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,720
And so.
Yeah.

652
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,680
And then for Treasure Island,
that's when they thought that

653
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,240
the Vegas thought that they
would make it family friendly.

654
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:01,520
So they basically built like a
theme park attraction on the

655
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,040
front of the hotel.
And it was a It's on.

656
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,120
You can I think I have a it's on
my I found a YouTube video and

657
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,440
it's on my blog somewhere that
the show cause back in those,

658
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,120
you know, the people you have to
get a video camera you can just

659
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,400
get on your phone.
Yeah.

660
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,400
I think it was David Hersey was
the lighting designer for it.

661
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:21,880
I don't remember yeah.
And so we so production has got

662
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,920
the contract for the whole
lighting system.

663
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,240
And then I did the the show
control part of it.

664
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,680
And I was also like, you know,
was the one of the few

665
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,680
installation people like hanging
upside down soldering XLR

666
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,240
connectors for DMX and stuff
like that.

667
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,960
But that was run on an Amiga
Richmond sound design.

668
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,640
What was the name of their
software stage manager?

669
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,240
And again, that would take time
code in it would spit out.

670
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,120
Is that a copulate animator?
I think that we use on that?

671
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,280
That was an ETC console, but it
was spit out taking safety time

672
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,080
code and then spit out MIDI to
the console to sync it up with

673
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,400
the soundtrack.
Yeah.

674
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,920
And then that show went every
what, 15 minutes?

675
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,520
Thirty minutes?
There was a lot of.

676
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,280
Flame in it and it was very
expensive to run so they I think

677
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,640
by the end well it ended up sort
of fizzling out but it ran like

678
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,800
4 * a night or something.
Oh OK.

679
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,960
Because it was a big production
that had stunt people in it.

680
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,680
And then if you saw the right
performance, one of the like

681
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,920
high divers was on fire and
things like that.

682
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,120
So so it was just a simple story
like these pirate ship which was

683
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,960
sails around the corner.
They have this big battle and

684
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,080
the British sea captain voice
with Steve Wynn, the owner of

685
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,600
the casino.
I didn't know that.

686
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,200
Yeah, you can hear him on the.
Video.

687
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,600
It's not a great, he's not a
great voice performer, but he

688
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,480
owned the joints.
So.

689
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,280
Yeah.
And then that was a that was

690
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,640
show tech, I think we were
subcontracted to.

691
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,920
And then that was like they went
bankrupt in the middle of the

692
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,360
thing.
So this was in those days.

693
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,560
I think they built these
projects by getting somebody,

694
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,360
you know, bankrupting them
during the show.

695
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,040
Yeah, construction.
And they pay off everybody at,

696
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,800
you know, $0.60 on a dollar.
And that was their sort of

697
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,600
discount program for you, I
think, like.

698
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:11,280
Right after it opened.
This was probably 92.

699
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:19,440
I was, I was in Vegas with my
now ex-wife and proposing to her

700
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,480
and I came up with this whole
scheme where I rented a

701
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,040
limousine and picked her up at
the airport because I was there

702
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:36,200
on business and right as the
volcano was erupting.

703
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,920
Or was that Mirage who?
Had the volcano yeah, that was a

704
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,320
mirage.
She went also, but.

705
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:44,840
Yeah, that's Mirage.
That too.

706
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,280
Oh.
That was a mirage, not the

707
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,320
Treasure Island.
Yeah, Mirage is the one that I I

708
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,640
proposed to her right as the
volcano was erupting, which

709
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,640
really kind of was a preview of
our marriage.

710
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,480
Oh, no, yeah.
But and it's crazy, but it's

711
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,520
it's hard for people you.
Go to Vegas now.

712
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,760
It's hard to understand The
Mirage.

713
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,840
That volcano is getting torn out
now, right?

714
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,040
So it's hard to understand.
Like Treasure Islands, gone.

715
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
Like or being gone.
They haven't imploded it yet,

716
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,840
have they?
I don't remember.

717
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,400
No, I think it's the last.
Time I was there that the

718
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:19,080
attraction.
So it was Buccaneer Bay for 2-3

719
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,880
years or something.
Then it became the Sirens of TI,

720
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,800
which was just horrendous.
Like, yeah, show designed by

721
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,720
committee with, you know, it's
just awful, but they had all

722
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:31,360
this stuff.
Let's do it exactly and then

723
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,080
the.
Last time I saw it, it was like

724
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,520
a Walgreens and a Senior Frogs
was the yeah, that's what I saw.

725
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Yeah, but it's getting, it's
getting gone and it's going to

726
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,400
be the Hard Rock.
Oh, OK, the.

727
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,560
Guitar Hotel.
It's been a year.

728
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,240
It's going.
In there.

729
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:45,880
Yeah.
OK.

730
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,680
So that's happening fairly soon,
I believe.

731
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,080
And I was actually there.
While we were building that

732
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,880
thing, they they imploded the
dunes.

733
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,760
So I have some very blurry
photos of that thing going on.

734
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,800
We watched from the roof of
Treasure Island.

735
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,440
So yeah, well and the recent.
One was the Trop, right?

736
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,560
And they had the the drone show
with the pyro on the drones and

737
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,600
stuff.
That was a pretty cool implosion

738
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:10,880
show.
Yeah.

739
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,880
It's so wild to see those
buildings coming down like that.

740
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,000
They're so controlled, like it's
controlled violence in a sense,

741
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,600
you know, because they're
literally blowing up the entire

742
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,440
building, but they do it in a
way that none of it leaves that

743
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,840
little square of property.
You know, it's, it's pretty

744
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,040
wild.
So, so we moved very fast there.

745
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:33,720
You got out of school and all of
a sudden you're building

746
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:39,120
frigging pirate shows and stuff.
One thing I was wondering is did

747
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,400
you ever wonder how different
your career would look had Shoko

748
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,520
said yes to that 16 year old
starry eyed kid?

749
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,800
Would be a rock'n'roll guy.
Well, that's one of the things.

750
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,840
In that process, so and when I
was in college, we had touring

751
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,400
concerts come through and so we
had like Huey Lewis and Hall and

752
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,960
Oates.
And it was funny because this

753
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,320
was this is 1983 or 4.
And I would get, I was kid

754
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,360
pushing Rd. boxes, you know, But
it's just, I just think

755
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,200
fascinating to see the standard
of production has gotten so much

756
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,120
higher that like, there was
number railing on the stage for

757
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,480
the Hall and Oats show, and Oats
fell off in the middle of the

758
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:15,240
show.
Yeah.

759
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,640
So you just hear this, like
playing.

760
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,200
Yeah.
Yeah.

761
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:18,760
And I was you.
Know the sound.

762
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,040
Guys like, oh, the whole crew
thought they were getting fired

763
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,280
that night, you know, the whole
thing.

764
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,400
Yeah.
But I, I was around that a lot.

765
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,400
And I just realized that, you
know, I, I just didn't, I didn't

766
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,440
enjoy drugs as much as I would
have needed to, to go on the

767
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:32,880
road in those days.
Yeah.

768
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,360
And it just, and I'm, I'm also
not like my brain is, is I

769
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,800
really love solving technical
problems, but I, I'm terrible at

770
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,800
running shows because I just not
don't have a memory for like

771
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,000
sequences of things.
And so those two things like

772
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,520
that kept me off the road, I
think in the end.

773
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,440
But I ended up I would like to
mention.

774
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,840
Just for, for young kids
listening to this now because

775
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,960
we're we're battling such a
perception problem in the, in

776
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,200
the concert touring world where
that is still prevalent and it's

777
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,840
not just not the case at all.
Yeah, the drugs.

778
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,120
And drugs and partying and stuff
have definitely, I wouldn't say

779
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,440
completely 100% disappeared, but
for the most part it's become

780
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,200
much more corporate.
And you know, the, the

781
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,800
perception I think still among
many people is that it's just a,

782
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,920
a drug infested party gypsy
showdown, you know, and it's

783
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,360
just a gypsy life, right?
And it's just not true.

784
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,160
Like now it's a really great
career going on the road with

785
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:38,800
these tours, you know, with
great companies that are now,

786
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,360
you know, $100 million plus
companies and stuff.

787
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,520
So it's become much more
serious.

788
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,560
I don't know if you still would
have made the same decision had

789
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,920
it been right now going in and
looking at it and going, yeah,

790
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,480
like, would it still be too
messy for you or no, I think.

791
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,960
That I had, so I jump ahead a
little bit, but I taught at this

792
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:03,000
college for almost 25 years and
I had a lot of students that

793
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,480
went into all different types of
touring in it.

794
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:06,960
No, it's a whole other world
now.

795
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,320
Yeah.
I would recommend it.

796
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,880
It's also much, much, much
higher tech.

797
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,240
Yeah.
Because in the 80s it was really

798
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:15,480
kind of cowboy stuff in terms of
the technology.

799
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,720
Yeah.
And now you, you know, the

800
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:20,200
people on the road, it's like
the the problems you have to

801
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,400
solve and the level tech, you
know, technology and stuff.

802
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,520
It's, you know, it's way beyond
that.

803
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,160
So I think it's a much more
interesting job in that way now.

804
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,680
Yeah, that's a, that's a good.
Point though, is that like I

805
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:38,320
think in the past, most real
products from real manufacturers

806
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:43,200
were designed for theater, and
most rock'n'roll stuff was

807
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,120
either adapted from theater or
built in somebody'd garage.

808
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,000
And I think now that's changed a
lot.

809
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,280
And now because theaters keep
product for so long, you know, I

810
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:01,200
think Rock'n'roll has become
much more sort of the the target

811
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,280
audience for most of these
manufacturers.

812
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,720
They're building products to put
on to these big mega tours and

813
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:08,400
stuff right when it's a bunch
bigger.

814
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,600
Market I think the that sort of
you know that's huge concert and

815
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,520
touring and event stuff is when
I wrote the couple articles I.

816
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,920
It's been a few years but I ran
all the numbers and theater even

817
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,680
though theater dominates sort of
the educational side and the

818
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:27,360
idea of it the you know the the
the money in that industry.

819
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,120
I don't know I I'm going to get
the number wrong.

820
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,640
Well, let's say it's 15% of the
industry.

821
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,520
Yeah, that's changed a lot.
Yeah.

822
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,040
So I think one of the things,
you know, one of the things,

823
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,000
again, I feel fortunate have
been in this time.

824
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,840
But when I was doing these
things with Bran Ferran and even

825
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,320
at production arts to some
extent, we were kind of

826
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,400
inventing these things and like
these, you know, we build these

827
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,800
things and we built these like
film projectors.

828
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,440
We, you know, Sodom up over the
weekend and and send it out and

829
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,000
kind of hope it ran.
And then over the years, like a

830
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,680
lot.
And some of the things we did

831
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,200
back then, like we had Bran had
figured out a way to take a

832
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,480
whole bunch of photo big photo
studio strobes and make

833
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,000
lightning, simulate lightning.
And we would do that.

834
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,680
And now that's just oh, it's
just a strobe, this picture and

835
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,800
it's done.
So there's so many things that

836
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,880
in that period from, you know,
80s and in the article I argued

837
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,600
about 2010 is when this like big
maturity point happened.

838
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:22,960
Yeah.
Where nothing there's, there's

839
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,120
certainly innovation continues.
But, you know, you look at the

840
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,360
show between in the article I
talk about from, you know, The

841
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,600
Beatles and Shea Stadium to
2010, if you look at that

842
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,120
evolution, it's insane.
You look at a show, you know,

843
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,440
and then maybe not the Top End,
Taylor Swift or whatever, but if

844
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,160
you look at a standard show from
today in 2010 to the audience

845
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:43,720
perspective, it looks pretty
much the same.

846
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:47,160
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's more of the same, but

847
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,480
you're right, I think two 2010 I
would say is definitely sort of

848
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:57,120
a maturity point where fixtures
had prisms and framing shutters

849
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:02,520
and you know, different control
protocols and all this stuff.

850
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,760
And, and plus, especially with
the advent of the LED light

851
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,800
engine, you know, when you when
you reduce the heat in those

852
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,960
fixtures, you suffered so many
less problems.

853
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,440
The fixtures became so much more
reliable.

854
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,360
And I think that reliability
crossover was really a

855
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,440
significant one because you
know, if you look back to the

856
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,880
earliest verilites where you had
to have the curtains up and, and

857
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,840
people constantly working on
them, even during the show and

858
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,800
stuff to now where you know, you
hardly ever have to pull a

859
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,920
fixture down out of the rig and
replace it.

860
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,800
It's stuff is just extremely
reliable, you know, as unless it

861
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,120
actually gets dropped on the
floor or something, right, But

862
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,360
so you know, I mean, you have an
interesting life slash career in

863
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,320
that it seems like you've
literally covered most of the

864
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,960
disciplines, like literally
theater, architecture.

865
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:04,720
You did some touring, you know,
really like teaching

866
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:09,520
photography, film, television.
Like you've pretty much done it

867
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,480
all right.
Yeah, I've been.

868
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:16,480
And I think part of that, I
think it's fortunate to come

869
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,960
into the industry when I did and
pray if you're really like me as

870
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,680
a sort of I, you're in the 80s
sometime I took these aptitude

871
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,480
tests because working at brands,
I was sort of like, what's my

872
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:28,920
specialty?
I'm working on all these like

873
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,280
genius specialists and I'm like,
what's my specialty took these

874
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,200
aptitude tests like, well,
you're a generalist.

875
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,800
Like that's what you do.
And so in those days, I think

876
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,320
it's still true to an extent
kind of way.

877
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,800
Your resume says yeah, you are a
generalist.

878
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,480
And in those days.
You could kind of flip around

879
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,600
between the various things a
little more and I think I my

880
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,200
brain, I'm more of a sound
person than anything else.

881
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,640
But in when sound was all
analog, like I just struggled

882
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,120
with understanding it to like a
deep level.

883
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,760
And then I just got very lucky
because when everything went

884
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,520
digital, like that came into
alignment with the way my mind

885
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,240
works.
And that was just for some of

886
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,920
the older analog kind of wiring,
you know, brain wiring people.

887
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,360
But for me, it moved into where
I am.

888
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,560
So I would say in these days, I
mean the last, you know, couple

889
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,040
decades, I I still around a lot
of different things, but I

890
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,360
couldn't program a lighting
console today.

891
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,960
You know, I really could.
I mean, I could learn it, but I

892
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,720
I haven't, you know, once Gran
MA came out and we had that in

893
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:28,040
my school and I looked at I'm
like, OK, And then I never sat

894
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,800
down and learned it well, and
that's me.

895
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,160
I mean, certainly I'm the same
with a grand MA, but more so

896
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,040
with, with lighting or with
audio.

897
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:37,160
You know, I'm the exact opposite
with audio.

898
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,480
Like I, I grew up playing in
bands and, and I could walk

899
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,120
around to the sound craft.
I think it was called an SR20

900
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,480
four or something, the 24
channel basic sound craft,

901
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,240
rectangular, boring looking
console and with a little meter

902
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:56,200
bridge on it, you know, and and
I could make a band sound good,

903
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,760
but today I wouldn't even know
how to turn a console on.

904
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,560
And I don't understand Dante and
I don't understand all the plug

905
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,360
insurance and you know, where's
the rack of Eqs and and reverbs

906
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,040
and stuff.
Oh, well, no, you don't need all

907
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,600
that.
That's, you know, that's a new

908
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,280
plug in or whatever, you know,
and I don't get it like A and

909
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,680
yeah, but I would say that.
The, you know, like a sound

910
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,320
console functionally is still,
with a few exceptions, is still

911
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,640
pretty much the same as it was
in the 80s.

912
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,520
Or maybe not the 80s, but the
90s.

913
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,960
It's just that now it's all on a
touch screen and buried inside

914
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,720
the thing, which is a lot
simpler in terms of signal flow

915
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:35,400
and all that.
Yeah, you're not inserting 100,

916
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:37,240
you know, compressors on
everything.

917
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,680
And so, yeah, so many, many
benefits to it.

918
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,160
But but there has been, and this
is not true, I guess in lighting

919
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,480
as well, but in audio and video,
there's been this big kind of

920
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,680
structural change when we went
networking or everything went

921
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,960
network because it used to be
that you could walk up to an

922
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,320
analog sound console.
And actually this is true in

923
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,240
lighting back in the zero to 10
Volt days.

924
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,040
And you could put your hand on a
wire and trace it out and go,

925
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,680
oh, this goes over here, It goes
to that thing.

926
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,320
This is where it goes.
Yeah.

927
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,720
And then now with networking,
we've like decoupled the signal

928
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:13,320
flow from the physical, physical
topology.

929
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,560
So now you just plug it all in.
It goes to.

930
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,680
It's funny, I have network
switches sitting behind me.

931
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:19,600
Yeah.
You plug in a network switch and

932
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,760
then the signal flow is all
virtual inside the system.

933
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,520
Yeah.
And that's been something I saw

934
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,160
that, you know, I was teaching
through that transition.

935
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,040
And I can see, you know, the
students, even the ones that

936
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,880
never had the analog background,
struggle with that as well.

937
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,240
So that's a new kind of
paradigm.

938
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,440
Yeah.
I think if somebody, you know,

939
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,440
you could learn it.
I mean I could I could learn a

940
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,520
grand M8, but it's so there's it
does a lot more than it used to

941
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,080
with like a 2 scene preset or
you know, but I think a sound

942
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,640
console is still taking
something and you know, putting

943
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,680
some EQ on it.
To me it's a whole.

944
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,240
Different thing, like it's just
the whole everything about the

945
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:57,920
whole universe is different.
But you know, you mentioned

946
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,800
about all the networking and do
you know Chris Chalk, Chris

947
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:07,560
Chalky Chalk television film
like the guy, he's Australian

948
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,400
and he does most of his work in
LA.

949
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,200
So it doesn't surprise me you
wouldn't know him.

950
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,120
But he's become somewhat of a
networking expert on on lighting

951
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,320
controls.
And he's a programmer for for

952
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:24,400
movies for the most part.
But he said as time went on and

953
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,320
networking became a thing,
people were just lost, you know,

954
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,720
television and and movie people
were just lost on, on, you know,

955
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,760
because like you said, you used
to just follow a cable and go,

956
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,800
well, that goes to that light
and that's broken.

957
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,120
And that's what I need to
change.

958
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,160
But now it's, you know, it's a
little bit more complicated.

959
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:43,760
Yeah, it's it's abstract.
Now.

960
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,200
And so he teaches.
All kinds of classes to you

961
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,360
know, the union guys out there
and stuff because you know they

962
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,040
don't understand until they
learn right all this networking

963
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,160
stuff.
So, and it's funny because I.

964
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,880
Remember, because I, you know, I
came out of theatre school and

965
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,000
had worked on some, you know,
concerts and I did sound in the

966
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,640
pub at school and things like
that.

967
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,000
And then I went like my, you
know, first job working with

968
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,040
Bran was on these feature films.
And these guys back then in the

969
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,360
80s, like they, there was one
where they, I can't remember

970
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,880
which one it was, but they had a
very, very simple lighting

971
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,920
console, probably Electro
controls or something like that

972
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,240
ended up on the feature film set
every all these guys were

973
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:26,880
terrified of it like that.
The idea of a queue is like, oh,

974
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,120
well, you know, not putting a
screen in front of this because

975
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:31,640
obviously they had power
temperature issues.

976
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,840
But but yeah, it was kind of
crazy.

977
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,360
And now, like I have friends who
are, you know, lighting experts

978
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,360
here that make money doing crazy
moving like rings for, you know,

979
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,920
films, even though you might it
might not be a concert scene or

980
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,640
something.
It's just they build that.

981
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,840
Well, it's very much an.
Expertise that that I don't

982
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,160
think everyone has out there you
know and like Chris was telling

983
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,400
me you know there's like 5 top
guys and all the biggest movies

984
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,440
are after these five top and
these guys are just like hog

985
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,840
programmers you know they're
it's not even the toughest

986
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,800
console for the most part yes
some of these movies are using

987
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,440
MA consoles now and stuff but
you know from from a standpoint

988
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,120
of what's going on in concert
lighting Oh yeah you know it's

989
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:19,400
crazy out there like you know
the expertise levels of some of

990
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,040
these computer operator guys
that are now running consoles

991
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,400
it's wild it's wild it's A and
that's what.

992
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:26,920
It's a real specialty.
Now.

993
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,160
There's people, I mean, I have
friends that that's what they

994
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:30,480
do.
They're moving like programmers.

995
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,200
They do all kinds of, you know,
big events in New York and

996
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,440
that's their their whole career
and it's great.

997
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,240
But it's that's like, I wouldn't
have, you know, I said I'm a

998
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:41,800
generalist.
So I, I always sort of, you

999
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,680
know, I'm interested in lots of
different things.

1000
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,120
So which is my downfall in some
ways, but that that whole.

1001
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,840
Program or being able to make a
living.

1002
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,280
Like I remember exactly when
that switch flipped.

1003
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:56,760
It was basically the Hog 2 when
the Hog 2 launched in whatever

1004
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,400
it was 94 or 95.
I guess it was.

1005
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:03,400
But when the Hog 2 came out, all
of a sudden all these like club

1006
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:08,320
kids were getting 250 a day
right to to program hog twos.

1007
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,880
And it just became they became
the most sought after people

1008
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,800
period.
Like the people were lining up

1009
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,240
for their services.
And I know guys now who are in

1010
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:22,880
their late 50s who did very,
very well at that time, you

1011
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:28,200
know, and just that turned into
a career, a very good career,

1012
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,320
you know, And now there's the
whole.

1013
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:34,480
EDM world with just the most
insane program you'll ever see

1014
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,720
wow see these things on
Instagram and like wow it's so I

1015
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,720
mean that's probably where the
cutting edge is these days

1016
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,880
they're the ones pushing them
yeah, I think you're.

1017
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,560
Probably right.
Like they seem to be the largest

1018
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:52,160
rigs, the most integrated use of
video and lighting together.

1019
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,800
And yeah, I think you're, you're
probably right.

1020
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,040
I mean, although you look at
some of the country tours now,

1021
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,160
like it's insane the size of
these rigs.

1022
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:07,280
You know, you, it's really
country and, and rock music and

1023
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,840
pop music are all using the same
rig now.

1024
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,400
Basically it's all 1000 moving
lights and just loads and loads

1025
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,640
and loads of gear.
And I think we've seen.

1026
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:21,160
That yeah, these articles,
that's all on my website, people

1027
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,600
interested.
But the, you know, we saw even

1028
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,640
when I was in doing these
feature films in the 80s, they

1029
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:32,240
were using twecos for power,
which was this welding connector

1030
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,720
was not rated for the right
voltage and had an exposed screw

1031
00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:37,120
on it.
So if you didn't tape over the

1032
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:41,240
thing, you'd just get shocked.
I remember a movie called

1033
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:45,240
Critical Condition on Governor's
Island here in New York and I'm

1034
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,320
running this big lightning rig
and I had like 1000 amp three

1035
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,200
phase generator powering my
lightning rig and I'd go to jump

1036
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,800
on the scaffold for this thing
and I was getting blasted.

1037
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,200
And so the guy, the film
electrician, I told him.

1038
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,000
So he went over and he got like
a little piece of metal steak

1039
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,040
and I like a zip cord with two
clips on.

1040
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:05,600
And that was his ground for the
thing.

1041
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,520
Jesus.
And I, that was where it's good

1042
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,680
to know about electricity
because I would just jump onto,

1043
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,720
I wouldn't, I would never be
part of the circuit.

1044
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:15,400
I would jump from the ground
onto the thing and I was happy

1045
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,600
to get off of that, but.
I mean these days.

1046
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,560
All these things.
Concert, touring, film, the TV

1047
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,120
production, it's all the powers,
all pretty much standardized.

1048
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,840
Yeah.
And then I think the other

1049
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,680
fascinating part is the, like,
virtual production stuff where

1050
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,960
you see, you know, the video
walls have gone back from live

1051
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,040
performance into the virtual
production stuff where they're

1052
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,600
just driving with a gaming
engine.

1053
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,880
And they put some, you know,
sensors on the camera to give it

1054
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,160
the modeling input.
And it's, I look back, you know,

1055
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,640
it's the same kind of ideas.
We were doing the 80s, but we

1056
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,680
had none of this horsepower, you
know?

1057
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,240
Yeah.
But it's all kind of come

1058
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,040
together in that way.
Yeah, It it.

1059
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,560
Really is incredible and that's
again, it's one of the things I

1060
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,400
point to when when we're talking
to younger people who are

1061
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,320
considering whether or not, you
know, they want to be in this

1062
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,680
part of the industry.
And again, you look at the

1063
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,040
technology that's out there and
the amount of it and the size of

1064
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,520
these shows and stuff there's
nowhere else you're going to get

1065
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,760
access to that kind of stuff.
There just isn't and I think I

1066
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:15,760
I'm.
Sort of jumping around the

1067
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,520
timeline here, but when I was at
production arts in the 90s, I I

1068
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,360
wrote the 1st edition of my
book, which back then was the

1069
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,480
with that's online on my website
for free.

1070
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,160
Is kind of hilarious to look
back at it.

1071
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,920
What is your website by the?
Way 'cause you keep oh sorry,

1072
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,800
referring to it control geek
dot.

1073
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,640
Net control, just search my
name.

1074
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:38,560
That's you'll find me the but
yeah.

1075
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:42,120
And there so that, you know, the
first book back in the 90s

1076
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,800
anyway, that was much more about
like, you know, pin level stuff

1077
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,280
on DMX and MIDI was in there and
there was a couple pages on

1078
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,520
networking and stuff like that.
And then that's evolved now that

1079
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:01,360
I, that became this monster 400
page book that, you know, it

1080
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,880
became just kind of out of
control where I renamed it to

1081
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,760
show networks and control
systems.

1082
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,480
And then during the pandemic, I
was thinking about this for a

1083
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,960
long time, but I extracted out
the networking part of the book

1084
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,960
into a separate book called
introduction to show networking.

1085
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,880
And the, the idea that, and the
reason for is exactly what

1086
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,360
you're talking about is the one
thing that that that's common

1087
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,160
and all this stuff.
And I think I would argue

1088
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,600
there's three things actually,
but one thing that's common

1089
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,600
across all these fields now is
networking.

1090
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,800
So you don't really need to
know, you know, the what's, you

1091
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,920
know, the 7th bit of the MIDI
message anymore because you can

1092
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,560
Google that if you need it.
But it is helpful to know what

1093
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,520
an IP address is and how the
networks work.

1094
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,640
And so I think there's three
sort of technologies that are

1095
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,720
universal across all these
fields now.

1096
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,320
Networking for data, Ethernet
basically for data control,

1097
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,040
which is not the case in the 90s
and 80s, we, you know, Ethernet

1098
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,040
existed, but there's other
contenders.

1099
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:56,360
They're all gone now.
Yeah.

1100
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,160
And then I think power is
standardized pretty much across

1101
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,120
everything.
I mean, even our, you know, Lex

1102
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:02,760
products sells up to the
military.

1103
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,080
So it's like the same thing.
And then rigging, like those

1104
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,720
three things have standardized.
And I think those are also the

1105
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,160
anything you would do in the
future if you're going to invent

1106
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,520
the, the thing I always use for
what's the sort of disruptive

1107
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,160
technology be like the Princess
Leia projector from Star Wars,

1108
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,760
which never existed.
It was an optical effect.

1109
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,760
But if you're going to build one
of those, you need to rig it

1110
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,520
safely, you need to give it
power, certainly, and you'd give

1111
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,080
it data how you do that
Ethernet.

1112
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,360
So that's why these things.
So if you learn any of those

1113
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,480
three things, I think the
techniques and, you know,

1114
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,640
between the industries are a
little bit different, but you

1115
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,600
know, like we have two rigging
tests and stuff like that.

1116
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,440
But you know, per theater and
rigging and, but all those

1117
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,000
things, I was, I, I helped write
the certification exam for the

1118
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,840
electrical stuff and, and we sat
in a room with Broadway

1119
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,200
electricians and film guys from
California and Canada and stuff

1120
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,120
like that.
And it's all the same.

1121
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,000
You know, that's where I first
heard about like land parties

1122
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,160
and things like that, where you
hear these like crazy things,

1123
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,120
but it's still a bunch of Cam
locks and some Transformers and

1124
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,920
a bunch of cable and that stuff
is pretty much standardized.

1125
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,560
So I do think I don't know if
somebody be able to bounce

1126
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,640
around as much as I did.
But if you're interested and you

1127
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,880
learn any of these things, I
think you, you know, you have to

1128
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,600
figure out your way into it
because it's all much bigger

1129
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:23,640
than it was.
Yeah.

1130
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,120
But it's also like, you know,
when I I talked about my first

1131
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:30,320
USIDT in 1984, there was nobody
hiring there.

1132
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,800
Like if you wanted to work for
Cirque de Soleil or whatever,

1133
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,880
you'd have, well, they didn't
exist back then, but the, you

1134
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,120
know, those kind of
organizations weren't there.

1135
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:41,840
And now they recruit the USITT
and the all of them have tables.

1136
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,920
Yeah, all of them have tables at
the, at the trade shows even,

1137
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,120
you know, solo tech and PRG and
some of the big, some of the big

1138
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:54,360
rental houses and stuff have,
have HR tables at these trade

1139
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,280
shows.
But yeah, I mean, you're right

1140
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,960
about so many of those things.
And you know, again, like you

1141
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,520
being the generalist that you
are, you, you went to school,

1142
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,440
you did a bunch of stuff and
then you decided I, I need to go

1143
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,960
teach people how to do all this
stuff.

1144
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:16,360
Is that how that went or am I
missing about 27 steps in there?

1145
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,960
Yeah, I think the the.
Process Well, what happened

1146
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,400
along in there?
It's funny because like over the

1147
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,560
years, I can't count how many
editions of the books I've done,

1148
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:29,080
but I I'm down to I have two two
books now that I think are good

1149
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:33,840
for a while, but none of that
stuff was taught to me in either

1150
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,400
school and it wasn't their
fault.

1151
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,800
And I have a lot I could talk to
you in another two hours about

1152
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:43,360
education, but the and the
issues there, but is it is the

1153
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,160
general.
Issue in education.

1154
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,560
Just that it takes them a long
time to understand what the real

1155
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,000
world actually needs.
No, it's.

1156
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,320
Just so there's no money.
Is that what it is always?

1157
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,000
Yeah cuz you have it seems like
on all topics.

1158
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,760
They're always a bit behind, you
know?

1159
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,160
It's like that's the nature of
any.

1160
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,600
Bureaucracy, but yeah, but you
have a lot of very smart well

1161
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,880
meaning people in there like in
and it's used to be I mean I

1162
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,600
taught at a public college that
just the button basically I mean

1163
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,480
I already retired because it
just.

1164
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,760
I frustrated and fighting it,
yeah.

1165
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,280
And it at all levels of the
school with very well meaning

1166
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:18,720
people and my colleagues are
great.

1167
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,960
The students were awesome.
But I just like I'm like, you

1168
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,040
know, I don't have kids.
I've been saving money.

1169
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:25,720
I don't need to fight this thing
anymore.

1170
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:27,880
Fortunately, it's getting a
little better in terms of that,

1171
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,560
but but it just feels like to me
and I might be.

1172
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,280
Wrong And, and you would
obviously be more passionate

1173
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,000
about this too, but I've always
felt because, you know, I, I

1174
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,440
left school early and became a
business person and I hire

1175
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,720
people who come through colleges
and, and all of that stuff.

1176
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:47,280
But whether it's business or
marketing or any kind of

1177
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:53,080
technology or whatever it is, it
feels like people are coming out

1178
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,560
prepared for something that
happened two years ago, but not

1179
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,160
for what's happening today,
right.

1180
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,440
That's certainly an.
Issue because just the nature of

1181
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,720
academia is it's like a it's a
bureaucracy.

1182
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,840
So yeah, there's nothing.
And that with a bigger problem.

1183
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,120
And I wrote an article about
this 17 years ago.

1184
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,800
The, I mean, again, the school I
was at was not like this.

1185
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,880
So this was City Tech in, in
Brooklyn.

1186
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,840
And there's still my colleague.
They replaced me.

1187
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:22,760
Fortunately.
I wasn't sure they would.

1188
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,320
Excuse me.
No worries.

1189
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,640
The so that school is in School
of Entertainment Technology.

1190
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,800
So we didn't have any actors or
directors in the program.

1191
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:36,680
But we're in New York.
So you could, you know, we

1192
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:38,560
partner with the Bindlstip
Circus in there.

1193
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:43,120
We have endless, you know,
awesome variety performers and I

1194
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:44,600
can I can talk about that
forever.

1195
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,880
But the the in the bigger
problem is that like most

1196
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,800
schools that address this this
industry are Conservatory

1197
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,960
theater programs and those.
Yeah, again, I wrote about this

1198
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,440
actually, I, I attacked the
Conservatory model for training

1199
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,960
technical students and then I
actually got an award from US

1200
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,640
ITT for it.
So because you know what that

1201
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,920
tells you though is the people
teaching the technical stuff,

1202
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:13,840
they know it, but a lot of those
schools are run by directors and

1203
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:18,080
theatre, academic theatre
people, you know, PhDs or

1204
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,840
whatever that aren't, they look
down on a lot of this stuff.

1205
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,160
So the technical people are sort
of secondary in there and they

1206
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,080
get pushed aside.
But the, but I would say our

1207
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,160
school, you know, the, the, a
bunch of issues with that.

1208
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,480
The one, a lot of people are
like, oh, we want experts in

1209
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,280
this console or whatever.
It's like, well, great #1 give

1210
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,760
us the console because we can't
afford it because the budget's

1211
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:43,720
been destroyed #2 you're taking
somebody off the street that

1212
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,320
doesn't know anything.
And like, my school was lots of

1213
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,880
kids who grew up in the city and
a lot of like first and 2nd

1214
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,920
generation immigrants that are
really just as passionate as I

1215
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,640
am.
But they didn't have, you know,

1216
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,400
the, the, the privilege of going
to, you know, you know, I went

1217
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,080
to a boarding school and all
these things and be able to just

1218
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,400
do whatever I wanted.
Like these kids, they got a job,

1219
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,800
they got to do these things.
Yeah.

1220
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,200
So you have to, they have to,
they were just as passionate as

1221
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:11,840
I was.
But they started with sort of a

1222
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,480
deficit already.
So you have to make up for that

1223
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,200
in terms of where they're going
to get and then try to teach

1224
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,320
them stuff.
And I think was, so we would

1225
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,360
focus on was those fundamentals
like our school was, is still

1226
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,360
one of the only ones that has a
networking class in it because

1227
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,560
I, I, you know, developed it
while I was there.

1228
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,960
And so I think in those case,
but again, the people they, you

1229
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,120
know, they have to get
experience.

1230
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,040
So you're not going to just step
out and have, you know, the

1231
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:40,760
amazing people right out of
school no matter what you're

1232
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:42,360
going to be.
Catching up a little bit, yeah,

1233
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:43,840
yeah.
But there's I think.

1234
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:45,000
There's a lot of problems with
it.

1235
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,560
And the big picture is that one,
most educational programs are

1236
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,640
theatre based, where theatres we
just talked about as a tiny part

1237
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,720
of the market.
And I, I have a thing on my blog

1238
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,920
about, you know, there's a lot
of snobbery in that world.

1239
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,720
They look down on, you know,
rock'n'roll and circus stuff and

1240
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,360
all this other things, even
though, yeah, Oh yeah, that's

1241
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:05,440
still going on.
Yeah.

1242
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,880
While the meantime, you know and
all these schools have hundreds

1243
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,920
of acting students that are
never going to work while you've

1244
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,520
got you know all these technical
students that are all going to

1245
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,960
go and work the rest of their
career in the industry.

1246
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,640
Yeah do really well.
So that's there's a whole lot of

1247
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,360
problems with.
I could it almost, it almost

1248
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,560
reminds me of.
The back to school, Rodney

1249
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,520
Dangerfield, the whole thing
where he gets up and starts

1250
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:32,080
yelling at what's his name?
The comedian.

1251
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,480
Oh my God, what's his name?
The guy who yells all the time.

1252
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,160
I'm drawing a blank.
I've seen him live a couple

1253
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,280
times, but anyways, you know,
he's yelling.

1254
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,480
That's not how it works in the
real world.

1255
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,840
Here's how it goes.
And he, he just because he's a

1256
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,200
business guy, right?
So he, he just kind of goes off

1257
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:54,800
on how the real economy works
And, and it sort of reminds me

1258
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,160
of a lot of the students that I
meet coming out of school.

1259
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,480
And it's not, this isn't saying
that anyone's stupid or they,

1260
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,760
they're not coming out well
educated or whatever.

1261
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,240
They're very well educated.
But there's just that piece

1262
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,280
that's missing.
And it seems to be, like I said,

1263
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,200
they're, they seem to be aimed
at something that happened, not

1264
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,680
at something that's going to
happen, you know, and in our

1265
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,479
program, we really.
Focused on like the fundamentals

1266
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,800
and like I think our students
come out and they used to, you

1267
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,800
know, they go right to work for
a while out of the the companies

1268
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,720
all around New York and they go
on tour and stuff.

1269
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,840
So I think, I think we, the
problem is in our case, the

1270
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,479
whole school was just got the
budget slashed and we went

1271
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,160
through, really suffered through
COVID and all this.

1272
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,120
It's very complicated right now
with these, these are kids that

1273
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,080
were in high school during COVID
and you know, whatever the

1274
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,040
issues are with that, that's
what they went through.

1275
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,880
And it's, they got a long big
situation to come out of that.

1276
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:53,120
But I think, and I just went up
last week, up in Poughkeepsie,

1277
01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:56,279
there's an old kind of legendary
rock'n'roll venue up there

1278
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,120
called the Chance Theatre, which
is an old vaudeville house.

1279
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,720
And unfortunately the guy who
ran the club for many years, he

1280
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,760
and his wife, they both died
from COVID and the place kind of

1281
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,240
went dark after that.
But now there's like people in

1282
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,160
there and I think it's, I'm
going to get the name wrong, but

1283
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,319
I think it's the Empire Arts
Academy or something like that.

1284
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,240
They're making like a 10 month
non profit and entertainment

1285
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:22,120
technology training program that
I think that kind of thing.

1286
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,319
And again, I think you can do
this now because it's a trade,

1287
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:27,840
Yeah.
And if you're motivated, you

1288
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:29,640
don't need school for a lot of
things now.

1289
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,560
And this is something by.
The way this is not by any

1290
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:37,240
stretch a a anti school
discussion, you know, from me

1291
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,040
and certainly not from you who's
been a professor for years and

1292
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,120
years and years.
But, you know, I think people do

1293
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:47,040
need to recognize when they're
just there for the party and,

1294
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,160
and wasting their parents money
and their time.

1295
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,840
You, you need to recognize that
and be willing and, and prepared

1296
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,600
to step away and use that
motivation and, and find a

1297
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,440
better way to do it.
And I won't say that's exactly

1298
01:09:59,440 --> 01:10:03,000
where I was, but I just was
looking around going, yeah, this

1299
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,480
ain't me.
And, you know, that was really

1300
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:07,320
all that it was.
And I wanted to be on the road

1301
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,240
with a rock band.
And that's what I did.

1302
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:13,720
And so.
So, yeah, you know, but I mean,

1303
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,480
certainly when you've got good,
smart, passionate teachers like

1304
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:22,120
yourself, you know, that's a
killer foundation that I think

1305
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,240
everyone in our industry needs.
And but it's a funny industry

1306
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,800
because the foundation of the
industry isn't that.

1307
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,640
The foundation of the industry
is just yahoos who were sitting

1308
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,400
at a bar and somebody next to
him goes, hey, you want a gig?

1309
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,480
Yeah, that's right.
You know, let's go do this

1310
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:38,280
thing.
You got to wrap up these cables,

1311
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:41,200
carry them from here to over
here, and I'll pay you 30 bucks,

1312
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:42,680
right, You know?
Oh, cool.

1313
01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:45,840
And next thing you know,
they're, you know, the lighting

1314
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,800
designer for The Rolling Stones
or whatever, you know, I mean,

1315
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,840
it's just crazy how careers are
made in this industry.

1316
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,720
But I would say in the big.
Picture I would predict in the

1317
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,040
next decade, you're going to see
a bunch of colleges are going to

1318
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,960
close because enrollment's
declining, funding's getting

1319
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:01,480
slashed everywhere.
Both.

1320
01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:04,760
Yeah, and I hear it not just in
the public sector, like my

1321
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,400
school was all publicly funded,
which is great because people

1322
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:09,840
graduate with no debt and all
that.

1323
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,520
And I also think I wish, I wish
Americans would, would do like

1324
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,440
many people in the world, take a
gap year and go do something

1325
01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:17,760
else.
And I agree with that.

1326
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,560
Work at McDonald's or something?
I had a kid so.

1327
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,080
Much.
Oh yeah, I had a.

1328
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,360
Kid at school that just a great
guy and I, I'm not sure what

1329
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,240
he's doing today, but I know
he's successful.

1330
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,320
But he worked at the Times
Square McDonald's for like 2

1331
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,960
years when he was getting out of
high school and he's like,

1332
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:36,080
should I put that on my resume?
And I'm like, hell yeah.

1333
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:38,520
Because anybody that knows
anything, like if you can

1334
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:40,960
survive two years, even if
you've never been to the Times

1335
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,120
Square, McDonald's, you can
envision it.

1336
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,880
And, you know, if you can work
through that for a couple years,

1337
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,160
you, you know, yeah.
Like, you're not going to come.

1338
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,440
You've got tenacity.
Yeah, you're not, You're not

1339
01:11:50,440 --> 01:11:53,400
going to be running to HR four
times a day with and there's

1340
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,600
some kind of small problem.
Passionate and you know.

1341
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:58,600
I think he's first one in his
family, go to college and things

1342
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,800
like that.
Wow, that's.

1343
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,080
Impressive.
I mean, that's the.

1344
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,840
Heartbreaking things we had
hundreds of these kids come

1345
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:07,000
through and then it's not our
program was never targeted.

1346
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,920
It's just that they just the
program just they've cut and cut

1347
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,160
and cut and cut to the point
where like, you know, how do you

1348
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,040
function?
And again, it's cyclic.

1349
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,080
It was at a bottom before COVID.
COVID was really miserable for

1350
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:22,840
us.
And then now it's, it's sort of

1351
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,120
on the upswing.
I just personally, I was too old

1352
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,560
to like fight that battle
anymore.

1353
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,640
And we got some great people in
after me.

1354
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,840
So I'm, I'm very optimistic for
it for the long run, but yeah,

1355
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:32,840
it's a different.
But I'd.

1356
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:36,520
Say it is a very different world
in that like I think if you're

1357
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,400
you you don't I mean it depends
on where you want to be but I

1358
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,800
think you can as if to get a
career in this industry and if

1359
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,480
you again if you're a self
motivated self self learner like

1360
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:51,160
you may you may not need college
anymore right yeah or something

1361
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:52,360
like this well, not even just in
our.

1362
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:56,520
Industry in a lot of industries,
like I, I read and, and listen

1363
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:01,520
to guys all the time talking
about hiring coders outside of

1364
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,480
colleges.
You know, they're not just going

1365
01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:09,440
to, to all of the usual suspects
to get their, their computer

1366
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:12,400
coding guys, tech guys and
stuff.

1367
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:16,360
You know, they, they'd rather
see a piece of code that they

1368
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,760
wrote and go, yeah, that's good.
I want this person on my team.

1369
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,920
Yeah.
But regardless of where they

1370
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,240
are, industry's always been
that.

1371
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:27,120
Way it's always been, you know,
a, can you get along with people

1372
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:31,360
and be a good part of the team
and B, can you do the job and

1373
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,320
then your credentials don't
really matter after that.

1374
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,440
Yeah, I mean other than safety.
And you know, I think the

1375
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:39,120
certifications we have now I
think are very important because

1376
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,200
those are all, you know,
electrical and rigging and stuff

1377
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:43,240
is really important.
You don't want to be you don't

1378
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,160
want the Yahoo's doesn't have
any background in that, but you

1379
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:48,280
don't have to.
You know, we taught that stuff

1380
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:50,200
in high school, but you don't
have to go to college to.

1381
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,360
But this is all a bit of a a.
Reversal though, because I think

1382
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:57,840
for for a long time, you know,
maybe it's the 90s and the, and

1383
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:02,400
the 2000s, you know, that was it
Like you get out of high school,

1384
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:04,320
you got to go to college, we
need a college degree.

1385
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,400
If you don't have a degree on
your resume, you're not getting

1386
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,760
hired by any of these companies.
And I think that that's been a

1387
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:14,360
bit of a reversal now where
companies are much more willing

1388
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,240
to look past your education at
who you are as an individual.

1389
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,760
And that's a good thing.
What skills do you actually

1390
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:22,360
bring?
What character do you bring?

1391
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,680
I know I do.
I've never, I couldn't care less

1392
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,040
what school you went to or if
you went to school, you know,

1393
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,360
I'm going to read you as a
person and what kind of job you

1394
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:35,720
can do for me and, and hire you
based on that, not based on your

1395
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:37,360
credentials.
I don't care about your

1396
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:38,840
credentials.
For me it was this.

1397
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,280
Is the 80s a very different
time?

1398
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,320
But when I went to grad school,
it was three years in grad

1399
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,360
school and I, my calculation was
that was like 10 years in the

1400
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:49,960
industry.
And when I came out, and I don't

1401
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:53,120
know if that's true today, but
when I came out, I was working,

1402
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,880
I worked at production arts with
people that had been there for

1403
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:58,880
like 5 or 6 years and I'd sort
of so that we're, and again, to

1404
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,880
me that was a great experience.
I learned a lot, you know, for

1405
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,120
that.
So again, everybody still

1406
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:05,960
depends on the.
Individual though, because like

1407
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:07,320
some.
People could go.

1408
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,560
Into production arts and get 10
years of schooling in in six

1409
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,080
months at production arts, right
You know maybe not six months

1410
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,760
but 18 months or something.
You know, because you do go to a

1411
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,720
point to be trusted before you
get out of just wrapping cables.

1412
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:21,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you'd also.

1413
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,520
Have to be doing every night,
you know, reading stuff,

1414
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,000
watching whatever.
Of course.

1415
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:28,360
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I still.

1416
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:33,240
I mean, that's the thing to me
is I'm still, you know, I'm, I'm

1417
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,000
still go to like industry
events.

1418
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:39,560
I mean, I'm, I'm not, you know,
at 61, I'm still just as

1419
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:40,840
interested in the business.
I am.

1420
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,240
I go see, you know, four or five
shows a week, but I'm out

1421
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,840
shooting my friend's band still,
you know, all the stuff.

1422
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:48,800
I'm still doing it because
that's what I want to do.

1423
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:50,320
Yeah.
And that's the path.

1424
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,720
And I'm still interested.
Like I'm going next month to the

1425
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,280
England to see the ABBA Voyage
show, you know about.

1426
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:56,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

1427
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:58,480
Very cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1428
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,560
It's that's like that's my
vacation.

1429
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,840
I'm and I'm gonna, then my
friend's band's playing over

1430
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:03,960
there.
I'm gonna go hang out with them

1431
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,560
and like, that's fun.
I could go to the beach.

1432
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,880
But I'd rather do that, so I
mean that that's what I'm

1433
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:10,480
interested in.
So yeah, good for you.

1434
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:16,480
But you know, going back to like
the 90s when you started writing

1435
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:20,440
books and, and then eventually
teaching as well, or I don't

1436
01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:22,120
know which one of those came
first or whatever.

1437
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:26,920
But did you just suddenly desire
to like, I need to share this

1438
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:31,080
knowledge or, or was it just
that you burned yourself out on

1439
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:34,600
the other stuff?
Or like what was the especially

1440
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:38,160
writing?
Because writing to me is 1 where

1441
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,600
not very many writers make money
off of it.

1442
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:44,080
You know a very small percentage
of of writers make money off

1443
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:48,760
selling books.
So it's more the ability the the

1444
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:54,080
mechanism to share knowledge.
How did that all come about?

1445
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,960
Like, was that a, was that just
a passion to teach or.

1446
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,960
Yeah, I think well.
A bunch of things happen all at

1447
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:04,200
once in there, but the So I said
my first job was this in the

1448
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,720
day.
You know, this is 1990.

1449
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:11,440
I work with Pat McKay and yeah,
theater crafts lady dimensions

1450
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:15,520
and with the guy, my colleague
was Carl Ruling, who went on to

1451
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,880
be the ESTA Carl.
Yeah, Yeah.

1452
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:19,520
He was the.
He's still around.

1453
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,520
He's he's on sort of phasing his
way out.

1454
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:23,840
And it's funny.
So Aaron, who's now the

1455
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,880
executive director of ESTA, was
one of my students and Carl

1456
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,560
wanted a like an assistant.
So I sent over there and then

1457
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:32,960
five years later she's in charge
and the whole thing.

1458
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:34,440
Wow.
Again.

1459
01:17:34,440 --> 01:17:37,160
There's somebody.
I think I hope she finished her.

1460
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:38,440
Yeah, she finished her to agree
with us.

1461
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:41,080
But that's somebody like had
been in school and came this

1462
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:41,800
thing.
And so.

1463
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,720
Yeah.
So I was at the AES show in it

1464
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:49,200
was at the Hilton Hotel as to
how long, how small it was, this

1465
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:53,520
was 1991 or whatever.
And somebody from this publisher

1466
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,880
came around and said, oh, we're
looking for book reviewers.

1467
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:00,080
And they filled out this form
because I had, you know, as

1468
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:04,600
technical editor and the, and I
guess because I'd written at

1469
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:05,920
Yale, you have to write a
thesis.

1470
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,640
So that's what I think that was
the first big document I wrote

1471
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,720
like that.
And then on the form is like, if

1472
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,160
you're going to write a book,
what would it be on?

1473
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:15,240
And I wrote show control.
And then they contacted me and

1474
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,880
then that was, I was working
again, talking about like, I

1475
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:20,840
think passion to the point of
burning yourself out.

1476
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,280
But, you know, while I was
working in production arts, I

1477
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:27,880
was writing that first edition
of the book and then the so

1478
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,400
that, you know, and just, it
was, it was so hot.

1479
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:33,240
And then that came out on a
publisher.

1480
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,120
And then I did, and it's the
same one.

1481
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:36,520
I can't even remember what it's
called now.

1482
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:37,920
It's been bought out so many
times.

1483
01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:42,720
But I did 3 editions with them
and then they didn't really

1484
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,040
market the third one very well,
I think.

1485
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,760
And, and then they're like,
well, you know, I had lined up a

1486
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:53,080
sabbatical at school and I was
like, well, you know, they're

1487
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,840
like, well, we don't really want
the 4th addition out of this

1488
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:57,480
thing.
And I'm like, well, we need it.

1489
01:18:57,480 --> 01:19:00,080
The industry's changed.
And I'm like, I'd always retain

1490
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:01,880
a copyright and I'm like, will
you give me back the

1491
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:03,160
distribution rights?
They're like, yeah.

1492
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,320
So I'm like, OK, so I always say
I was like depressed for one day

1493
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,720
about losing his thing.
But then since then, oh man,

1494
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:11,480
that was 12 years ago or
something.

1495
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:14,240
I've been self-publishing it.
And that was like the best thing

1496
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:15,600
ever.
I really don't know.

1497
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,320
And now I'm not getting rich on
it, but I make basically the

1498
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:23,600
publisher, you know, you if for
royalties you get 10% of the

1499
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,960
wholesale price.
So if you, I can't, if you have

1500
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,360
a, nobody has a $10 book, but
they sell it.

1501
01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:32,400
If it's a $10 book, they sell it
for six.

1502
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:34,040
That means you get $0.60 out of
it.

1503
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,440
Yeah.
So and self-publishing, you set

1504
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:39,760
the price, whatever you want,
there's a print cost, then you

1505
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,000
keep the rest of the money and
then you could do anything else

1506
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,920
like we talked about.
I'm happy to do a book giveaway

1507
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:46,680
here.
I can just do that because it

1508
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:48,240
doesn't cost me much to do,
right?

1509
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:50,520
Where the publisher you don't
have to go pay them publisher,

1510
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:52,640
right?
Beg them for promotional.

1511
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,600
Copies or whatever, yeah, but
yeah, I mean, to me, I think

1512
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,680
it's just been and what happened
along the line is I it wasn't

1513
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,680
getting bored, but I'm most
happiest when I'm a learning new

1514
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,040
stuff.
And I think, I think I didn't

1515
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,440
really understand this at the
time, but I started teaching

1516
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:12,120
full time in about 2000 or
something.

1517
01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:15,280
And I could, what was really
happening was the industry was

1518
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:17,560
maturing and I wasn't learning
as much.

1519
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:21,000
And then by, I think by going
and teaching full time, which

1520
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:24,040
I've always enjoyed doing, I
would need, I'd have to learn a

1521
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:25,880
lot of these things that are
much, you know, like I learned

1522
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,800
way more about electricity when
I had to teach it.

1523
01:20:29,480 --> 01:20:32,240
So I mean, personally, selfishly
to me, it was like the learning

1524
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,280
of it and then writing and
stuff.

1525
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,800
I just, I think explaining
stuff, it seems to come easily

1526
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:40,760
to me.
So I just enjoy it.

1527
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,760
And I'm still doing that now I'm
doing networking workshops and

1528
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,800
stuff like that.
And now that way I could do all

1529
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,240
the teaching without me to deal
with the bureaucracy of

1530
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,920
anything.
But yeah, I think I just always,

1531
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,320
I just always, I always read a
lot of stuff and I just thought

1532
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,960
it'd be cool to write something.
And then my mom was a librarian.

1533
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,840
I think that was factored into
it, you know, in terms of the

1534
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:03,640
like, just, that was the culture
for me.

1535
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:07,320
He was always interested in
organization and all that stuff.

1536
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:09,720
Yeah.
That's that's really

1537
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,840
interesting.
And that turned into a how long

1538
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:13,600
was your teaching career?
25 years?

1539
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:17,560
Well, yeah.
About 2025 full time, 24 full

1540
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:20,800
time.
But I taught NYU for a while

1541
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,200
part time and up at Yale for a
while part time.

1542
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,520
So on and off for I, I don't
even know how many years, but

1543
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:30,440
while on, you know, while the
whole time I've still been doing

1544
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:35,320
either consulting work or I fell
into this niche of like big

1545
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:38,880
outdoor sound systems.
So I did this Tribeca Film

1546
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,840
Festival outdoor system for 12
years, I think.

1547
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,480
And again, we went through the
evolution of blind arrays and

1548
01:21:46,480 --> 01:21:47,880
all that stuff like during that
time.

1549
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,640
But we had like Elton John
played on my system and things

1550
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:52,640
like that.
And we when you say did the

1551
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,800
system?
System design or or front of

1552
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:56,960
house?
Not front of house engine.

1553
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,400
No, I've never been a good.
Mixer, it's the same thing about

1554
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:01,560
I'm not good at concentrating,
but yeah.

1555
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:05,680
And it was kind of, but it was
fascinating because, you know,

1556
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:09,360
we for Film Festival, I didn't
even think about it going in.

1557
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:13,920
But for Film Festival, you, you
know, if you a music concert, if

1558
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,400
you can't understand the words,
it's OK because everybody knows

1559
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,000
them.
But for a film, they you have to

1560
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,040
understand the dialogue.
So my was, you know, as over the

1561
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,520
years, as the budgets kept
getting cut, like lighting would

1562
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,120
get a little less whatever.
I'm like, OK, what do you what

1563
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:30,120
section do you not want to hear
the the dialogue in the film?

1564
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,480
They're like, oh, OK, So yeah.
And you have to do.

1565
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:36,240
It was in a very kind of crazy
originally on a pier in

1566
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,520
Manhattan.
And this was like a friend of

1567
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:40,240
mine just called up and like, we
do this thing.

1568
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:42,800
And I was like, wow, it's a
really busy time at school.

1569
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:44,920
I don't know.
And then eventually I said yes,

1570
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,400
and I did that.
And then I went on to do things

1571
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:49,200
for YouTube and all these
things.

1572
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:53,360
And then now these were all in
like really unusual places.

1573
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:54,760
That was the interesting part to
me.

1574
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,680
And then they moved it to, you
know, radio, so Music Hall,

1575
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:00,120
which is like good friends of
mine over there and the crew.

1576
01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:03,120
But the it's, you know, it's,
it's sorted.

1577
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:04,720
They have it handled.
They don't need for that.

1578
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:06,200
So I was like.
Some things that were like

1579
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:07,440
weird.
Yeah.

1580
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:10,160
And challenging part, yeah,
that's just always, that's been

1581
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:13,400
the same for everything I do.
So today you don't, technically.

1582
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:15,440
Have a job?
No, you.

1583
01:23:15,440 --> 01:23:18,000
Just have lots of different.
Things that you get involved in,

1584
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:19,080
Yeah.
You know, I don't know I.

1585
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:22,040
Seem to just be doing all the
things I was doing when I had a

1586
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,120
full time job and I'm without
the full time job and I'm I'm

1587
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,200
busy every single day.
So that's all I'm doing.

1588
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:30,600
Some do some consulting work for
like rational acoustics and

1589
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:35,160
helping on their like training
programs and stuff like that and

1590
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:36,520
a bunch of other things like
that.

1591
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,840
And I still have some articles I
want to write just like I have

1592
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,880
some ideas that I, and I think
to me the writing process is a

1593
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,840
way to like, I have this idea
about like, is this the, am I

1594
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:47,400
right about this?
Is this the thing?

1595
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,080
And I kind of go work through
and talk to a bunch of people

1596
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:52,640
well.
I definitely need an audio

1597
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:55,720
Blogger for, for my gear source
site.

1598
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:59,800
We're we're constantly asking
because we get really great

1599
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:01,840
lighting blogs, but we don't get
good audio ones.

1600
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:05,320
So we'll take your your hand me
downs anytime.

1601
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:10,520
So you know, the other thing is
photography.

1602
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,520
So I, I, when I'm going through
your pages of information that

1603
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,800
that Sarah gave me, I saw the
photography stuff.

1604
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:22,520
And I mean, that was sort of a
career for a number of years as

1605
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:24,520
well, right?
I never.

1606
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,280
Really, I made, you know, I made
a little bit of money on it, but

1607
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,560
it's, it's just been a passion,
I guess more than.

1608
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:33,160
And when I was a kid, I was
really into, and I think I

1609
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:36,400
probably thought about, you
know, being a news photographer

1610
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:39,720
or something because I tend to
like putting myself in kind of

1611
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:44,400
chaotic environments and but
which is, and so I did that and

1612
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:47,600
then, but I that's a career I'm
glad I didn't pursue because

1613
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:49,920
there is a world like it's
impossible to make a living now.

1614
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:52,040
Yeah.
That the and.

1615
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:56,680
Then after college, I lost
darkroom access in the 80s and I

1616
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,360
kind of drifted away from it.
And then in about I think it was

1617
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,880
2009, I bought, I bought a
couple little digital cameras

1618
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:05,760
over the years and I bought my
first real serious, you know,

1619
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,720
DSLR.
And then I started just like

1620
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,880
taking it to my friends shows
here in New York and everything.

1621
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:17,000
And so I did a lot of that.
And then again, there's no money

1622
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:18,720
in that.
These people aren't, they're not

1623
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:21,160
making a living.
So there's no pen to paint in

1624
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:23,920
that whole world of anything
where you get, unless you're,

1625
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:26,600
you know, shooting The Beatles
or something like those.

1626
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,320
Yeah, Bob Gruen or whoever.
It's funny because I had.

1627
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:33,280
Somebody reach out to me this
week saying, you know, I love

1628
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:37,120
your podcast.
I'm currently a photographer for

1629
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,280
Realtors.
I do Realty photography.

1630
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:44,880
Yeah, and also drone stuff and
I'm looking to break into your

1631
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,200
industry.
And tell them to run far away.

1632
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:49,360
Stay in.
Your lane.

1633
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,400
Yeah, Yeah, I just said stay
where you're at.

1634
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:55,520
Like, you know, there are a few
real mainstay photographers in

1635
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:59,200
our industry that seem to do
pretty well still, but for the

1636
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,440
most part, it's just not
something that you're gonna real

1637
01:26:02,440 --> 01:26:04,040
estate and.
Weddings, that's the only place

1638
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:07,320
to make money and target anymore
yeah, it's.

1639
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:10,720
True, it's somewhere along in.
There I was always interested in

1640
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,880
in storms and weather.
When I was working for Fran

1641
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,040
Ferren.
I went like we had a hurricane

1642
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:19,000
hit Long Island when I lived
there and I and we had no radar

1643
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:21,480
or anything back then.
I like drove down to the ocean

1644
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:23,080
and just, oh, let's see this
thing come in.

1645
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:24,320
Yeah.
Your storm picks.

1646
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:25,400
Are amazing.
Yeah.

1647
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,800
So that really.
That's one of my bigger passions

1648
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,520
now, about the last 15 years.
I go out to the plains every

1649
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:35,680
year and chase tornadoes and
that's like, I actually find it

1650
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,600
relaxing in a way because it's
so overwhelming.

1651
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:40,440
Like it's processing so much
information.

1652
01:26:40,440 --> 01:26:43,160
Like you can't lightning.
Strike photos that are hitting

1653
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:47,360
the, you know, is it the Empire
State Building or they're

1654
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:49,400
hitting something?
Yeah, all behind me.

1655
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:51,080
There's picture.
That's the World Trade Center.

1656
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:52,400
World Trade Center.
That's it.

1657
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:53,680
Yeah.
World Trade Center.

1658
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:55,280
Wow.
And that thing it.

1659
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,960
Scrapes out every storm that
pulls out some bolts.

1660
01:26:57,960 --> 01:26:59,400
Even after the storm's over, you
can.

1661
01:26:59,480 --> 01:27:02,480
So that's a it's not easy to get
the shop, but that's like a

1662
01:27:02,480 --> 01:27:05,200
reliable place to look because
otherwise lightning is like

1663
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:06,960
impossible to shoot because I
have no idea.

1664
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:08,640
But that one actually sold to
it.

1665
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:13,200
That was in a weather calendar.
And but the, that when that gust

1666
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:17,040
front came in my, my entire, I
have a huge tripod, but the wind

1667
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:21,000
was so strong and blew the
tripod over and I made like 300

1668
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:23,400
bucks on the photo and the
repair for my camera was like

1669
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:26,280
400.
So there's no money in it sounds

1670
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:28,800
like.
Good economic decision, yeah,

1671
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:31,600
but I think.
And when I finally saw, it took

1672
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,520
me a long time to like see my
first tornado and I sort of

1673
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,680
thought, oh, I can check that
off the list.

1674
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:38,840
But then it's like you're then
I'm hooked, you know?

1675
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:41,880
So now you want to.
See more This year I was.

1676
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:45,080
Our last year is 9000 miles in
like 3 weeks.

1677
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:47,160
Wow.
That's the most.

1678
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:49,720
Dangerous part is just the
driving, but well, last.

1679
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,080
Last year.
So I have a house in Canada and

1680
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:55,560
I live in Florida so I'm really
a a snowbird now.

1681
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:59,040
Basically I'm from Calgary
Canada and I have a house in in

1682
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:02,000
Banff and I taught AI taught a
workshop.

1683
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,400
At Banff years ago and I what a
beautiful spot that is.

1684
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:05,880
It is, yeah.
So.

1685
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:08,640
I have a house out there that I
spend the summers and last

1686
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:14,320
summer while we were in Canada,
our house here in in Palm Beach,

1687
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:17,400
FL got hit by a tornado.
Yeah, I, I was.

1688
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,880
Watching that on radar, that's
so so but it.

1689
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:25,880
Was wild because my son's buddy
was driving down the road the

1690
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:30,440
there's a pretty main road not
like right behind our house by

1691
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:34,320
about a half a mile or whatever.
And he's driving down this road

1692
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,280
and he pulls over on the side
because he can see a tornado.

1693
01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:41,760
And he starts to video it with
his iPhone and he sends it to my

1694
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:44,600
son and says is not where your
dad lives.

1695
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:49,120
And my son goes I think so.
And he sends it to me in Canada

1696
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:52,200
and he's like dad isn't this by
the house?

1697
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:55,160
And I look at it and I'm
watching it over and over again.

1698
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:59,320
It's literally hitting our house
during this video that this kid

1699
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,840
recorded.
And so we're still dealing with

1700
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,920
insurance and all this stuff.
And then this.

1701
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:07,560
I said that was a.
Kind of crazy.

1702
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:10,360
My I, I didn't go, but my
friends were chasing that

1703
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,720
hurricane and the But that was
kind of nutty because that was a

1704
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:18,800
real supercell tornado that spun
up way, way east of the sorry.

1705
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,720
Yeah, east of the storm because
the storm barely made landfall.

1706
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:25,280
Yeah, the storm was over.
On the West, West Coast of

1707
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,920
Florida at that point, and this
was just, there was a string of

1708
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:31,320
tornadoes that came through
Florida.

1709
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:35,680
And I think the worst ones were
in Wellington where we happened

1710
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:38,000
to live.
And it was just a path.

1711
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,840
And I mean, you can, you can
walk, you know, a mile that way

1712
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:44,160
behind me and a mile that way in
front of me, and you can just

1713
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:46,520
follow the path of the storm
that came through.

1714
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:50,280
And yeah, I mean, we just got to
be one of the lucky ones.

1715
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:54,320
Basically, it's US1 house on one
side of us and three or four

1716
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:55,880
houses on the other side of us.
And that's it.

1717
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:57,880
That's crazy.
Everything else is completely

1718
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,920
untouched.
And so we just happened to be in

1719
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:02,560
that little path.
Now, hopefully nobody was.

1720
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:05,040
Hurt so I don't think my
girlfriend.

1721
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:09,200
'S son Son was here and he he
thought.

1722
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,320
His mother had told.
Him, you know, go outside and

1723
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,040
just pull in some planters and
stuff so that they don't blow

1724
01:30:16,040 --> 01:30:19,520
around in the hurricane, even
though the Hurricanes far away.

1725
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,040
Like just pull in some stuff to
make sure it doesn't get blown

1726
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:25,440
around.
And so he goes outside and he

1727
01:30:25,440 --> 01:30:28,480
sees this thing coming and he
runs back in the house and he's

1728
01:30:28,480 --> 01:30:31,960
on the phone with his mom and
he's an adult, but he he'd never

1729
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:35,640
been in a storm like that.
And he's on the phone and he's

1730
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:37,840
like, I think that there's
something going on.

1731
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,280
There's a hurricane coming or
something.

1732
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:41,080
And then all of a sudden the
house is just going.

1733
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,680
And so he's hiding in the
laundry room like down in a

1734
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:47,840
little ball.
Because we don't have basements

1735
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:48,840
in Florida.
Yep.

1736
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:52,520
They say put as many walls.
Between, yeah, just an interior.

1737
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:55,120
Room with no windows.
And so he was in the laundry

1738
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,160
room.
And, yeah, so he was scared to

1739
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:01,800
death, I mean, for literally
like, 20 seconds or something.

1740
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,320
And then it was over and he
walked out and he couldn't

1741
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:06,320
believe it.
Like, there were trees down all

1742
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:08,280
over the yard.
Our screen was ripped out.

1743
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:12,720
Half our roof was gone, you
know, windows blown out, all

1744
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,840
kinds of stuff.
And he was like, like, in this

1745
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,040
much time, all that stuff
happened.

1746
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:21,400
So I can understand your appeal,
you know.

1747
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:24,680
You never like the, the first
one I ever saw in Kansas was

1748
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,200
out.
It was a yeah, four out at

1749
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,320
sunset in a field.
Like, that's what you want to

1750
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:30,160
see.
You don't want to see in the

1751
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:31,160
town.
Yeah.

1752
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:33,600
This is always something we
wrestle with this like the human

1753
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:35,720
causes things, but like, we're
not doing it.

1754
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:40,640
And I think a lot of chasers
will go and help, you know, like

1755
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:43,720
if you roll up on some damage,
you stop chasing and you go, I

1756
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,440
mean, obviously you don't want
to risk yourself or there's more

1757
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:49,160
kinds of crazy situations, but
right, you know, call things in

1758
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:51,880
and there is a lot of we,
there's so many chasers out now.

1759
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,200
Everything's basically live
streamed and reported.

1760
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,280
But the something like, you
know, chasing out in the

1761
01:31:57,280 --> 01:31:59,280
Northeast or in Florida is very
difficult.

1762
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:03,160
But in the Plains, it's like you
can just watch online, which the

1763
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,880
Weather Service watches 'cause
they can't see the bottom of the

1764
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:07,000
storm on the radar.
So.

1765
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:09,440
But yeah, I think we never
e-mail you after the.

1766
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,680
After the podcast, I'll e-mail
you the little short video from

1767
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:15,800
my my son's buddy of the one
that hit our house.

1768
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:18,640
So I saw some.
That was unusual because that's

1769
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:21,840
like a super cell sort of
self-sustaining storm because

1770
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:25,680
usually tropical storms, it's
like a one band comes in and

1771
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:27,800
there's like a quick spin up
like that's the typical one.

1772
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,400
But that was that.
That was unusual.

1773
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:33,000
That way, it was very the whole
thing, everything about that

1774
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:35,720
whole was that Helene, I'm
sorry, I think they were.

1775
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:36,720
Keep them straight.
Yeah, Yeah.

1776
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:39,680
I think it was Helene because.
It went through Florida and then

1777
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:43,720
came back around and went into
Georgia and North Carolina,

1778
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:46,760
Tennessee, all that stuff.
Hooked back around and went and

1779
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:51,440
kicked some serious butt.
So my friends chased that in.

1780
01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:53,760
Florida, I think it was that
when they chased in Florida and

1781
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:55,760
then also in South Carolina, the
same storm.

1782
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:57,040
Oh wow.
Because.

1783
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:59,960
That's crazy.
Like I can't believe the damage

1784
01:32:59,960 --> 01:33:03,120
it did in North Carolina.
Like I have a friend who built a

1785
01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:07,560
brand new house on a huge piece
of land with like waterfalls on

1786
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:10,280
his land.
Like just it's a very expensive,

1787
01:33:10,480 --> 01:33:13,240
I don't know, 10 or 12 acre
piece of land or 20 acre,

1788
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,720
whatever it is.
But it's on a mountain and it's

1789
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:20,280
just, and his house is still
standing, but waterfall's gone.

1790
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:22,200
All the bridges and stuff are
gone.

1791
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:26,520
Like it's, it's a disaster.
It's just like my sister lives

1792
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:27,320
in.
Asheville.

1793
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:32,280
So I went, I went like 10 days
and we were actually my father's

1794
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:34,480
memorial service when that was
all going on.

1795
01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:37,280
He was 101.
So he had a good one, but yeah.

1796
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:42,400
And she had a storage unit on
the second floor of a like

1797
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:44,120
U-Haul facility down by the
river.

1798
01:33:44,480 --> 01:33:46,160
And you know, I'm this weather
geek.

1799
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,240
Like, I never would have thought
twice about that.

1800
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:51,560
But yeah, the, the water was so
high that it, it went through

1801
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:54,000
the 2nd floor, like dumped
everything out of bins and it

1802
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:56,240
was like a total loss and all
that stuff.

1803
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:58,320
Wow.
You know they had no.

1804
01:33:58,440 --> 01:34:01,480
They when I was there, you had
to go to the Creek to get, you

1805
01:34:01,480 --> 01:34:04,360
know, water in a bucket to dump
the toilets out and stuff like

1806
01:34:04,360 --> 01:34:06,320
that, so.
It's sunrise.

1807
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:09,000
Yeah, when that stuff.
Happens like I've been here.

1808
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:14,120
I moved to South Florida in 1991
right before Hurricane Andrew.

1809
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:16,880
Oh yeah.
And so my very first.

1810
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:21,040
Hello, how you doing, you know,
with a hurricane was at that

1811
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:23,880
time one of the biggest ones
that ever hit the United States.

1812
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:29,080
And between the devastation,
like we actually had a cop come

1813
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:31,480
knock on our door because we
lived on the intercoastal.

1814
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,360
We had a knock, knock on our
door saying I'm sorry, but you

1815
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:38,040
have to evacuate.
And so, you know, we got on the

1816
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:41,000
road, drove to Orlando.
It took us like 8 hours to do a

1817
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:45,480
2 1/2 hour drive to Orlando.
We get there, we sleep like an

1818
01:34:45,480 --> 01:34:47,640
hour after watching the news and
stuff.

1819
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:50,080
I think we slept an hour, turned
around and drove back.

1820
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:54,520
But seeing the devastation and
the mess and the fact that we

1821
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,960
couldn't even get into our
building where where we lived

1822
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:02,480
and, and then the looting, like,
you know, that here's here's

1823
01:35:02,480 --> 01:35:06,680
this dumb Canadian coming to
South Florida and all I could

1824
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:09,880
see on the news was people
stealing televisions and stuff

1825
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:12,720
out of stores.
And I'm like, what is going on?

1826
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:15,560
You know, it just felt like
total anarchy to me.

1827
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:17,720
You know, I've never seen
anything like it.

1828
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:22,080
So yeah, it's amazing how
powerful some of those storms

1829
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:24,200
are.
It's crazy.

1830
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:27,840
I've been in hurricanes, but I'm
more like a tornado guy because

1831
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,640
part of it is that they're
relatively small.

1832
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:33,000
And then when it's over, you can
get out of the way.

1833
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,520
So you can help if you can, and
then get out of the way because

1834
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:38,640
if you're in a hurricane zone
and now you're there, you're

1835
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:41,520
stuck and you can try to get out
afterwards like you.

1836
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:43,320
Don't you never want to be a?
Burden on the system.

1837
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,760
So, yeah, same, like if it hits
some even, you never want to see

1838
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:49,920
it hit a town, but tornado hits
the town in Nebraska or

1839
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:52,520
whatever, you can look for
people and then just get out of

1840
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:55,480
the way and you're gone.
You know, you go stay 100 miles

1841
01:35:55,480 --> 01:35:56,280
away.
Yeah.

1842
01:35:56,280 --> 01:35:57,320
Where?
Yeah, that's the.

1843
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:00,160
But that's, again, we're not.
It's not.

1844
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:02,760
And I think it's fascinating.
It's really the power that's

1845
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:06,680
fascinating because these, like,
supercell storms are as big as

1846
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:09,080
Mount Everest, and you can see
them from 100 miles away.

1847
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:11,320
And I grew up, you know, you
didn't see any stuff where I

1848
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:12,840
grew up.
No, it's never.

1849
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:14,080
The damage you want to see,
it's.

1850
01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:17,000
Just but they're witnessing that
the power of these storms, you

1851
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:17,520
know?
Yeah.

1852
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:19,480
It's that's, I think that's.
What they're trying to is.

1853
01:36:19,480 --> 01:36:22,800
There any?
Science to why these storms

1854
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:26,120
always hit like trailer parks
and stuff well, it's.

1855
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:29,120
It's kind of the opposite.
They hit all lots of places

1856
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:33,680
equally, but the those that's a
big sort of controversial thing

1857
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:37,040
that they, but those things just
are not built well and they're

1858
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:38,960
not anchored.
So you have one.

1859
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:41,240
Storm more damage?
Yeah, normal.

1860
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:44,800
You know, structured house, then
this is also a problem with, you

1861
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:47,160
know, if they don't bolt the
house down properly that that

1862
01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:49,880
whole thing can go away.
But yeah, mobile home is just a

1863
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:54,240
horrendous place to be because
in a storm and the these days

1864
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:57,280
the more enlightened places,
we'll have storm shelters and

1865
01:36:57,280 --> 01:36:59,560
stuff for the residents.
But no, they just don't.

1866
01:36:59,960 --> 01:37:03,040
They don't hit them more, but
their survivability is very low

1867
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:04,400
in those trucks.
They just always.

1868
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:08,000
Seems like, you know, they're
the ones that get devastated by.

1869
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:09,200
Yeah, as usual.
Except.

1870
01:37:09,200 --> 01:37:12,640
Where people get get screwed the
worst in all these situations,

1871
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,600
yeah.
The other thing like so you talk

1872
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,160
about shooting your friends
bands and stuff and and you

1873
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,600
know, again on your website, I
looked at some of that stuff and

1874
01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:24,160
there was some weird looking
bands on there.

1875
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:26,360
Like these are all your friends
these weird people.

1876
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:29,880
Oh yeah, no, I.
I That's like it, yeah, that's

1877
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:31,320
the thing.
I think that's kept me in New

1878
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,520
York so long as I hang out with
a lot of musicians and circus

1879
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:35,960
people and all this kind of
stuff.

1880
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:37,560
And really?
Colorful people.

1881
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:38,800
Yeah, Yeah.
And I have.

1882
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:41,360
There's one, it was just
supposed to be last week, but

1883
01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:43,800
there's this, it got cancelled
by the fire department, but the

1884
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,160
have some friends that build
like crazy instruments that are

1885
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:50,040
on fire and everything.
And there's, I have one picture

1886
01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:51,400
on there.
It's a friend of mine who now

1887
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:54,040
plays with Go over at Ella,
which is the big contouring act

1888
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:57,360
where she has like a fireproof
soon on it sets her whole

1889
01:37:57,360 --> 01:38:00,920
accordion on fire.
And the but those got that was

1890
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,720
supposed to be last weekend, but
they got cancelled.

1891
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:05,680
But then the good thing is
they're actually going to do it

1892
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:09,200
again, but do it legally and and
do everything properly with the

1893
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:10,920
fire department.
So that's kind of interesting,

1894
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,240
actually interesting.
But yeah, but.

1895
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:17,480
Again, I like being.
It's sort of like managing

1896
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:19,560
chaos.
I think that's what though, it's

1897
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:22,360
like being on a storm where
you're, it's kind of, I just

1898
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:25,160
find that it's not relaxing, but
it makes it interesting where

1899
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,120
you just have to deal with a lot
all at once.

1900
01:38:27,440 --> 01:38:29,920
And I think when I do that, I
can't think of anything else

1901
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:31,840
except whatever it is I'm doing.
Yeah.

1902
01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:37,640
Going backwards a little bit so
with audio, you know, one of the

1903
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:40,400
things that that I actually
learned about on the podcast

1904
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,280
because I got the founder of the
company on, but there's a, a

1905
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:47,920
brand of line array called PK
Sound, which happens to be made

1906
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:49,840
in my hometown in Calgary,
Canada.

1907
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:55,600
And so he invited me into their
showroom to to see the product.

1908
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:57,760
And you know, I didn't know what
to expect really.

1909
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:02,320
I'm not that much of an audio
geek, but the system sounded

1910
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:03,560
great.
And then all of a sudden he

1911
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:06,840
goes, now watch this and he
says, let's say, you know,

1912
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:09,320
suddenly we've got this problem
and blah, blah, blah.

1913
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:14,120
And the system starts moving and
I just went what you know, it's

1914
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:17,400
reshaping itself.
And, and I was like, get the

1915
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:20,360
hell out of here.
Like I had this feeling almost

1916
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:24,520
like I was standing in the show
Co demo room watching lights

1917
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:29,360
move for the first time, you
know, and you know, so I don't

1918
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:31,080
know, do you have any feelings
about that?

1919
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:34,240
Because I, I tend to get mixed
feelings from people when we

1920
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:36,960
talk about it.
Some people say it's

1921
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:40,560
unbelievable, it's cool, but you
know, it adds to the price and

1922
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:44,680
weight and therefore I don't
need it or like 1 front of house

1923
01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:49,960
engineer said to me, you know,
in in 30 years of doing live

1924
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:53,240
sound, I've never once needed to
move the rig or to drop the rig

1925
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:58,640
to to, you know, re whatever.
So yeah, he thought it.

1926
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:01,720
Well, it's interesting because
that's goes along with the same

1927
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:03,040
thing we're talking about like
that.

1928
01:40:03,480 --> 01:40:06,040
I I lived through the sort of
through the early days when

1929
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:07,680
that.
It's funny because lineries have

1930
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:09,720
been around since the 40s or
50s.

1931
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:12,080
Yeah, but not in the form that
we've used them.

1932
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:13,880
Really.
It was like V dos was the first

1933
01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:15,560
one that became popular.
Yeah.

1934
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:19,240
And we had those when I was when
the Metron operator, I think, I

1935
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:21,240
don't know if I mentioned that,
but I worked at the Metron Opera

1936
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:22,760
for three years somewhere in
there.

1937
01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:24,080
That's where I got my local one
card.

1938
01:40:25,240 --> 01:40:27,960
And we did Metron Opera in New
York for Harmonic Summer Park

1939
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:31,520
stores all around the Central
Park and all around the city.

1940
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:35,520
And so those days we had like an
early days of V DOS come

1941
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:37,480
through, which is that's a whole
other story.

1942
01:40:37,480 --> 01:40:40,440
But yeah.
And then those days though.

1943
01:40:40,440 --> 01:40:42,080
So now though, it's a mature
thing.

1944
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:44,720
And then what's also evolved
along with that is a prediction.

1945
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:48,840
Technology is very good now.
So now most manufacturers,

1946
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:53,280
whether it's Meyer has one
called Map D MB, I forgot what

1947
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:55,920
theirs is called.
Acoustics has 1.

1948
01:40:56,160 --> 01:41:00,320
So if you know the venue, the
you shouldn't really need to

1949
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:04,000
reconfigure it, reconfigure it
while it's being, you know,

1950
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:05,760
while it's there.
You just have to pin it properly

1951
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,520
when it goes up.
And I think I, I, I saw that

1952
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:12,760
many somewhere years ago, I saw
that system, but I haven't seen

1953
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:16,440
it use that widely.
I think mostly because it's just

1954
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,440
if you do a prediction on the
bus in the morning, you know,

1955
01:41:19,440 --> 01:41:21,840
especially you've been to that
venue before, you have, you have

1956
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:23,920
the information.
Because these days if you know

1957
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:27,680
the throw and, and the, the
angles and the the geometry, the

1958
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:31,280
space, you put it in the your
laptop, hit the button and it

1959
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:34,200
tells you what the angles are.
And then you go out to the stage

1960
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:37,480
hands and go, this box is 1°,
this is 2°, this is 3°.

1961
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:40,040
Yeah.
So I think it's sort of, it's an

1962
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:43,520
interesting solution, but it's
probably a problem, you know,

1963
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:45,280
it's a you're fixing a problem
that.

1964
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:47,080
Doesn't exist.
Yeah, then it makes a.

1965
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:49,520
Little more complicated and
stuff like that, but I mean

1966
01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:53,400
their answer.
To that is, is that you know if

1967
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:57,720
something changes if the the the
barricade gets moved three feet

1968
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,240
further back or three feet
closer to the stage for some

1969
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:04,560
reason, right and now you don't
have any coverage for the first,

1970
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:09,680
you know 5 or 6 rows or whatever
like just all kinds of things

1971
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:13,560
that don't often happen I guess
is their response to it and, and

1972
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:15,560
most.
Depending on where the P as hung

1973
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,960
it, if you're downstage of the,
you know, the Whiting rig or

1974
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:22,040
whatever, even if that happened,
it's not that big a deal

1975
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:24,000
typically to drop the thing in
to repin it.

1976
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:26,680
I mean, it's not great, yeah.
It's not fun.

1977
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:28,480
But I mean, it'd probably be
possible to do that.

1978
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:31,360
But I mean, places like that
where you, I don't know if you

1979
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:34,520
can, you can fix that with some
front fills or some other, some

1980
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:36,400
other solutions to that.
Yeah, yeah.

1981
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:38,360
I mean.
It it to me, it seems really

1982
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:40,920
cool.
It's just the more people I talk

1983
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:43,680
to, the more unnecessary it
seems to be.

1984
01:42:44,080 --> 01:42:45,880
And how much weight is it
adding?

1985
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:49,160
How much cost is it adding is
really what it comes down to.

1986
01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:52,200
And there's another I'm.
Totally drawing a blank because

1987
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:55,960
the popsicle came back.
Now the I'm completely drawing a

1988
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:58,360
blank in the name of it.
But there's a really brilliant

1989
01:42:58,360 --> 01:43:02,000
guy that made a line array that
just always hangs flat and it's

1990
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:05,160
all digitally steered.
And that's an interesting

1991
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:07,960
solution because that every day
you just hang it the same and

1992
01:43:08,480 --> 01:43:11,000
you steer it all digitally.
But then the problem is you

1993
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:13,280
need, you have to educate people
on how to do that.

1994
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:17,480
Where I think now like the, you
know, the, the prediction, the

1995
01:43:17,480 --> 01:43:20,760
rate, the rate prediction and
the pinning and stuff is like

1996
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:24,800
pretty straightforward now.
But if you want to like

1997
01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:27,040
digitally steer it, it's a whole
other, whole other thing.

1998
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:30,040
So that wasn't really successful
in the market if you had to.

1999
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:32,480
Predict the future What?
What do you think some major

2000
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:34,040
advancements are going to be in
audio?

2001
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,560
In audio, I mean, what's
happening?

2002
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:41,960
I think it's why don't there's a
there's a there's a complicated

2003
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:45,280
answer to that, but I think what
you're seeing now, I think the

2004
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:48,960
most overused buzzword in all of
show, everything is immersive.

2005
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:51,800
Everything's immersive.
It's like, oh, come on, you

2006
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:55,040
know, But the speaker companies
obviously like anything

2007
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:58,440
immersive because the, you know,
you can sell a lot more

2008
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:01,400
speakers, so you want a lot more
smaller.

2009
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:03,320
Speakers right?
It's basically there's some

2010
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:05,640
really fascinating.
Stuff with that, but I have a

2011
01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:08,800
thing I got to have a talk on my
website about this that I did

2012
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,920
for Purdue couple years ago.
But I have a thing I called

2013
01:44:12,280 --> 01:44:15,640
Huntington's theorem where if
something's affordable and it

2014
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:17,320
doesn't catch on, it's not
gonna.

2015
01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:22,440
So we, when I was at Yale in
198988, we had a thing called

2016
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:27,320
Delta stereophony, which was a
all analog steerable sound

2017
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:29,640
system thing.
And that's basically what

2018
01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:32,280
everybody has, right.
Every manufacturer has a version

2019
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:33,880
of that now, which is the big
push.

2020
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:36,480
Is it?
It is really cool, but it's been

2021
01:44:36,480 --> 01:44:40,000
available for a long time.
So that's sort of like steerable

2022
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:44,320
movable sound, you know, idea
that sort of seems to be the

2023
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:47,120
trend at the moment.
But I, you know, and again, it's

2024
01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:50,840
really cool, but I don't know if
the audience really notices or

2025
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:52,600
if the producers want to pay for
it.

2026
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:56,520
Yeah, but I think in in almost
everything now it's just it's

2027
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:59,400
like aside from that, which
again, there's some cool

2028
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:02,280
applications for that.
Like if you go see like a build

2029
01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:06,320
big Feld production, the circus
or the what's the the marble?

2030
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:08,200
I think that's out now, but they
have another one.

2031
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,800
They do these shows, these huge
arenas that they use the entire

2032
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:14,360
arena, not just the usual
concert stage.

2033
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:17,760
And yeah, and it's a lot of that
stuff is just to track and if

2034
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:20,520
the people are paying them up
for not the circus forest, but

2035
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:23,840
you have no idea where the
sounds coming from because

2036
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:25,480
there's a character running
around on stage.

2037
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:27,440
Yeah.
And you need to localize it too.

2038
01:45:27,640 --> 01:45:30,280
So you see some that's finally
now you're starting to see them.

2039
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:32,800
They use like black tracks.
And then we'll drive the

2040
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:35,680
localization you through the
system back, but again in the

2041
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:38,240
bulk.
Of the market, which is concert

2042
01:45:38,240 --> 01:45:44,040
touring, I guess maybe because
I'm old, but I like lots of

2043
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:48,080
speakers over there and me over
here, you know and I.

2044
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:50,520
Yeah, I don't.
I want to feel it, you know, I

2045
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:53,040
even line array bothered me a
little bit.

2046
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:55,920
It was almost like the hybrid F1
cars.

2047
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:59,440
You know, the sound, the
screaming sound where it sounds

2048
01:45:59,440 --> 01:46:02,600
like it's going to blow to
pieces any minute is part of the

2049
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:06,600
experience, you know, And so
same with same with speakers.

2050
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,360
Like I like speakers that are
operating at their at their

2051
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:11,760
limit.
And yeah, you don't want to

2052
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:13,000
push.
Them to work and then they do

2053
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:16,600
sound different ish but you can
do that today but.

2054
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:20,000
You know, so line array I think
has gotten to a point where it's

2055
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:23,760
so good right now.
But the immersive thing, I don't

2056
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:26,640
know, like I like, it's like for
me, the difference between

2057
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:30,200
listening to music from my big
speakers over there to listening

2058
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:33,480
to music on my Airpods or, or
even a good set of Sennheiser

2059
01:46:33,480 --> 01:46:36,200
headphones or something.
Right when.

2060
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:39,840
That's again the, you know, this
is Pink Floyd was doing quad in

2061
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:42,760
1970, whatever.
And that's sort of that's my

2062
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:45,120
theorem.
Like, OK, if that was gonna be

2063
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:48,000
the thing, it's easily
affordable now if people wanna

2064
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:51,040
pay for it, it hasn't caught on.
So it's still, it's not a

2065
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:52,760
gimmick.
I mean, it is a legitimate thing

2066
01:46:52,760 --> 01:46:53,960
and it's cool.
Yeah.

2067
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:56,880
But yeah, I think, but I think
it's just like everything now.

2068
01:46:56,880 --> 01:46:58,760
It's just about.
And if you see it even in the

2069
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:02,880
speaker marketing now, DMV just
had a new array come out.

2070
01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:05,160
And what are they talking about?
It's smaller and lighter.

2071
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:06,960
Yeah.
So this is just optimization

2072
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:08,560
like it's doing everything you
need now.

2073
01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:11,760
But we can have a lighter truck
pack and less reading points,

2074
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:15,280
and lighter is important.
In all gear, all equipment is

2075
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:18,440
eventually gonna be smaller and
lighter because again, when

2076
01:47:18,440 --> 01:47:22,600
you're getting to every rig has
1000 moving lights and and then

2077
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:24,720
Taylor Swift has 3000 or
whatever.

2078
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:28,000
Like it's just getting
ridiculous to a point where it's

2079
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:31,240
just like, you know, you're not
going to have like my arena that

2080
01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:35,240
I used to see shows in in
Calgary doesn't get most of the

2081
01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:37,040
shows now because the rigs are
too heavy.

2082
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:39,240
Or do you talk?
About that, yeah, the ceiling

2083
01:47:39,240 --> 01:47:39,840
can't.
Can't.

2084
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:41,520
Carry it.
So they're building a new arena

2085
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:44,520
now.
But you know, it's it's crazy

2086
01:47:44,520 --> 01:47:47,960
how big these rigs have gotten.
And so, yeah, I think smaller

2087
01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:49,480
and lighter is kind of
important.

2088
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:53,080
But I mean, but I think there's
things being tested in in Vegas

2089
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:57,440
at that sphere basically.
And I'm hearing mixed reviews on

2090
01:47:57,440 --> 01:47:59,440
the sound.
I think I can.

2091
01:47:59,440 --> 01:48:01,560
Say it.
But yeah, I did the consultant

2092
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,840
on that project to the not on
the audio, but the on the show

2093
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:08,840
control networking stuff back in
2019 or something.

2094
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:11,640
OK.
And yeah, I think what's more

2095
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:14,120
interesting, that's it.
I mean, I give Jim Dolan a lot

2096
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:15,600
of credit.
There's a lot of things I won't

2097
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:18,320
say on here about it.
Yeah, but I give him credit for

2098
01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:20,960
making that building happen.
Like I thought when the pandemic

2099
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:22,040
hit, that was going to be the
end of it.

2100
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:23,560
Yeah.
The.

2101
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:27,800
But it's.
I'll tell you some stuff off

2102
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:30,440
here.
I know I can't say about it.

2103
01:48:30,440 --> 01:48:34,720
Yeah.
But again, I think that the the

2104
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:37,120
sound in there and I have.
I've only seen the movie.

2105
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:38,960
I haven't seen a concert in
there, but me too.

2106
01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:40,720
And.
The movie was.

2107
01:48:40,720 --> 01:48:46,680
Terrible and that I'll say yeah,
but the the sound in there is

2108
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:50,400
it's interesting, but I I'm not
sure I'm trying to choose my

2109
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:53,360
words carefully, but mostly it's
a giant video experience.

2110
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:57,840
Yeah, it's incredible the the
scale that always.

2111
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:01,160
I still am baffled how it's
successful economically.

2112
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:06,080
Do you know about the Cosm COSM.
I think so.

2113
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:09,200
It's a new.
Thing that they have one in I

2114
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:11,520
haven't been yet, but there's
one in LA, one in I think in

2115
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:15,960
Detroit, one in Dallas.
So that's a sphere kind of

2116
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:20,280
venue, but like 1/3 of the size.
And then they sell sports stuff

2117
01:49:20,280 --> 01:49:22,760
in there where they put a
special camera like on the end

2118
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:25,760
zone and then it's they sell
food and drink and you can

2119
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:27,760
you're there with your buddies
and you go see the thing like

2120
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:30,920
yeah, like that to me that sort
of scale makes much more sense.

2121
01:49:30,920 --> 01:49:33,960
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, so I think, but as

2122
01:49:33,960 --> 01:49:37,320
from the audio side, I don't
think what those speakers do,

2123
01:49:37,320 --> 01:49:41,640
the Holopod speakers do.
I mean, it's a that theory, the

2124
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:45,720
way the hypersonic theory that
that they're based on that's

2125
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:49,200
existed for a long time.
And they still, I asked them at

2126
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:52,200
a demo, they still have, you
can't steer low frequencies with

2127
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:55,280
that technology.
So you can't the way Wing's too

2128
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:57,400
big.
So I they were like, Oh yeah,

2129
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:00,120
we're working on that.
Well, no one solved that in 50

2130
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:01,560
years.
It seems unlikely.

2131
01:50:01,960 --> 01:50:05,600
So I think a lot of the power of
that system is not really used

2132
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:08,040
on a concert.
Like the whole point of it is

2133
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:11,960
that you could have one, you
know, Japanese audio and seat A,

2134
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:15,840
and then English and seat B and
German and seat C That's a

2135
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:17,960
really interesting application,
but you don't want that if

2136
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:19,640
you're going to see the Eagles
or something, right?

2137
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:21,720
Yeah, yeah.
And otherwise a big.

2138
01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:24,720
Spatial sound system.
We've been doing that for, you

2139
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:26,920
know, it's funny.
You you seem to have a similar

2140
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:31,600
attitude towards this sphere as
I do, where, you know, I'm

2141
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:36,080
impressed with what they spent.
I'm impressed with how much shit

2142
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:39,040
they stuffed into it.
You know how they like they went

2143
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:42,520
for it and and I got to give him
an attaboy for that.

2144
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:47,400
Oh, yeah.
But like I I keep going back to

2145
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,360
if I was going to get the
opportunity to see The Beatles

2146
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:55,000
or Led Zeppelin, 22 bands that I
wish I would have seen, I

2147
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:56,720
wouldn't want to see them at
this fear, right?

2148
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:58,560
Neither one of them would just.
Be Yeah.

2149
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:01,400
Well, I don't know if, like I
said, Zeppelin was my first

2150
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:06,360
concert in 1977, but the.
Yeah, anywhere, anywhere you'd

2151
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:09,040
see them today, they'd be on a
massive screen somewhere.

2152
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:10,720
Yeah.
But I think in that place,

2153
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:13,280
there's the the stage is so far
down.

2154
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:16,280
It's like this little tiny thing
down there would just be about

2155
01:51:16,280 --> 01:51:17,960
this amazing video experience.
So.

2156
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:19,920
Yeah.
But my, my sister's a big dead

2157
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:22,040
head.
She saw the dead 30 times or

2158
01:51:22,040 --> 01:51:23,400
something.
That's one good example.

2159
01:51:23,400 --> 01:51:26,120
Yeah, she said.
And I saw the dead once when

2160
01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:28,600
Jerry was still around at
Madison Square Garden with her.

2161
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:31,400
But she said the that she went
three nights.

2162
01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:33,680
She's going back next time.
Yeah.

2163
01:51:34,160 --> 01:51:36,160
She said it was the best dead
experience she ever had.

2164
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:39,160
I can see that.
That and fish, you know, I can

2165
01:51:39,160 --> 01:51:41,880
see that making a lot of sense
because those are visual, you

2166
01:51:41,880 --> 01:51:44,720
know, Pink Floyd would would
probably make some sense in

2167
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,560
there, you know, but it ends
there.

2168
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:50,360
The list ends there.
You know, like what I think

2169
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:52,400
they're doing.
EDM things in there now.

2170
01:51:53,320 --> 01:51:56,240
So I think, you know, there's
potential in there, but it's

2171
01:51:56,440 --> 01:51:59,520
it's what is a 17,000 seats?
Like that's a fundamental issue

2172
01:51:59,520 --> 01:52:02,800
to me where there's cosm idea I
think is really kind of

2173
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:05,800
fascinating because I think
that's a few 100 maybe a little

2174
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:07,440
more.
Like I said, it's on my list to

2175
01:52:07,440 --> 01:52:10,800
go like that's a scale that
makes sense sort of economically

2176
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,680
where you can run a football
game and make, you know, make

2177
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:16,480
money and you sell out of beer
and you're good, you know, but

2178
01:52:16,480 --> 01:52:19,360
for 17,000 seats, I guess I
don't know.

2179
01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:23,720
And it's so you can't it's such
an unusual building and they

2180
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:26,240
have that previous space and I
think it's a Burbank.

2181
01:52:27,440 --> 01:52:30,000
You can't just be on tour and
like, oh, we're going to make a

2182
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:31,840
stop there.
You have to make a show for that

2183
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:34,040
place.
And again, I think it's

2184
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:36,720
interesting, but it is just it's
a really incredible video

2185
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:38,080
experience.
Well, and the other.

2186
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:41,160
Thing that I was talking to a
good friend about the other day

2187
01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:45,160
is is, you know, the Vegas
weather is brutal, right.

2188
01:52:45,280 --> 01:52:48,800
And what happens when all the
video panels start failing?

2189
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:51,320
Yeah.
You know, like, how complicated

2190
01:52:51,320 --> 01:52:54,120
does that place get when
everything starts failing?

2191
01:52:54,560 --> 01:53:00,880
And and also it's Seiko.
It's it's not like you know, so

2192
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:04,680
I don't know, like to me, to me,
it's a ticking time bomb.

2193
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:07,320
And the idea.
Was they were going to have one

2194
01:53:07,320 --> 01:53:11,320
there, one in New York, 1 in LA,
one and then, but I think I

2195
01:53:11,320 --> 01:53:14,200
don't see that happening.
The economic model just can't

2196
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:15,680
possibly work.
They'll probably build one in

2197
01:53:15,680 --> 01:53:17,480
Dubai.
But that's all subsidized, you

2198
01:53:17,480 --> 01:53:19,120
know.
Yeah, I think that's where

2199
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:21,680
they're talking about next.
But the well those guys got.

2200
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:25,280
A few money, you know, the the
Arabs, they don't care like a

2201
01:53:25,280 --> 01:53:27,720
billion dollars to a billion 5
billion.

2202
01:53:27,720 --> 01:53:29,560
Let's do it.
You know, they they have all

2203
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:33,080
those big indoor ski hills and
just all kinds of business

2204
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:35,920
models that don't make any sense
just because they want it, You

2205
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:38,720
know, I want it.
And the other big issue.

2206
01:53:38,720 --> 01:53:42,920
Is that just the music industry
is so fragmented now that the,

2207
01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:46,720
you know, all the old acts are
dying out, so that generation is

2208
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:48,400
going away.
I mean, of course there's always

2209
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:51,520
a Taylor Swift and people like
that, but there's not ten Taylor

2210
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:53,800
Swift.
So yeah, I'm not sure what you'd

2211
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:55,760
put in there in 10 years, you
know?

2212
01:53:55,760 --> 01:53:59,400
So yeah, that's a good.
Point because I think you know

2213
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:02,160
Taylor Sift the Taylor Swift you
got to kind of clip that off

2214
01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:06,240
because that's sort of a weird
phenom, but you get away from

2215
01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:10,480
that what pop acts are people
gonna pay right you know eagles

2216
01:54:10,480 --> 01:54:16,000
money to go and see or U2 money
to go and see and yeah I don't

2217
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:19,840
know cuz I mean the.
And again, the EDM stuff is like

2218
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:22,320
that, you know, but that's not,
I don't know.

2219
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:24,880
I mean, the visuals be pretty
cool in there, but you're you're

2220
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:26,680
stuck in your seat except on the
four.

2221
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:29,400
So yeah, I'm not sure.
I mean, they've done it, but I

2222
01:54:29,400 --> 01:54:32,080
can't, you know, I, I yeah,
that's the wrong model.

2223
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:36,160
For that place.
In deep in Brooklyn, I can see

2224
01:54:36,160 --> 01:54:41,160
in the distance from my window
here called a Von Gardner and

2225
01:54:41,160 --> 01:54:44,120
they have every week and they
have 3000 people in there and

2226
01:54:44,120 --> 01:54:46,680
they have this insane laser
light, you know, movie light

2227
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:51,320
thing and a DJ and the you know
that that's the stuff that's

2228
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:54,560
where like the you know that's
that is going to be very.

2229
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:57,960
Expensive planetarium, you know,
is, is really what it is.

2230
01:54:58,000 --> 01:55:03,440
And but like UFCI saw in, I saw
the pay-per-view and I thought

2231
01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:06,720
it was crap.
And I thought, you know, if I

2232
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:10,080
had tickets to be in there, the
money that they spent for, you

2233
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:15,520
know, you know, off visibility,
like not great visibility.

2234
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:20,040
The one that I thought was kind
of cool was actually the NHL,

2235
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:24,240
the draft.
Oh, that's interesting.

2236
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:27,520
The NHL did their.
Draft in there and it was cool

2237
01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:29,720
because you could see all the
player stats and all the

2238
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:33,000
different players available.
The screen was put to use and it

2239
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:35,200
was very well designed for what
it was.

2240
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:38,200
That's so the player.
Draft, I wonder, kind of.

2241
01:55:38,280 --> 01:55:40,040
I can't imagine how much they
paid too.

2242
01:55:40,040 --> 01:55:42,720
Like what did the what?
Could the NHL possibly pay?

2243
01:55:42,720 --> 01:55:46,360
I mean, in there, Well, the NFL.
Which is based in Manhattan, but

2244
01:55:46,360 --> 01:55:48,520
they used to go on the radio.
I'm not sure where they do it

2245
01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:51,000
now, but they used to go Radio
City and remove all the seats,

2246
01:55:51,440 --> 01:55:55,160
which the prop guys love.
But it's like, you know, at some

2247
01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:58,440
point, what is that, the best
usage of your money?

2248
01:55:58,440 --> 01:56:00,760
Like Proscenium theatre
building.

2249
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,680
It's the same thing with that.
Like, were they putting 17,000

2250
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:05,440
people in there or was it ATV
event?

2251
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:08,720
Yeah, you know, I'm sure it's
somebody kind of a deal for the

2252
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:11,480
first time, but is that
something going to do that over

2253
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:12,160
and over?
Yeah.

2254
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:13,520
What's the novelty?
Wears off?

2255
01:56:13,640 --> 01:56:16,160
Yeah, Yeah, it'd be cool, but
that's an awful expensibility

2256
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:17,960
for that.
So it really is.

2257
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:20,840
What about you?
Got any AI thoughts?

2258
01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:23,280
Oh, I know you talk.
About it a lot.

2259
01:56:23,280 --> 01:56:27,720
So it's fascinating.
I'm kind of, to me, I think it's

2260
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:31,080
interesting.
I look at it like, and I've

2261
01:56:31,160 --> 01:56:34,880
written a little bit about this,
but you know, I saw VR stuff in

2262
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:38,800
like 1993 or something like that
and I had a lot of people.

2263
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:42,680
I was at some conference with
Jaron Lanier back then and he's

2264
01:56:42,680 --> 01:56:45,600
like, this is the changing
everything, the whole world and

2265
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:47,680
he's a guy that's he's totally
changed his mind on it.

2266
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:51,440
So I thought then that wow, this
has fantastic applications.

2267
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:52,840
Is it going to replace
everything?

2268
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:56,200
No, and that's sort of how I
feel like AI that it's there's

2269
01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:57,880
some really cool stuff you can
do with it.

2270
01:56:58,120 --> 01:57:01,920
I'm I don't feel very threatened
in our industry with it because

2271
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:05,920
I think, you know, I always say
that if we were going to not

2272
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:08,640
have live events like the
pandemic would have been it like

2273
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:10,400
we would just be doing
everything, virtually everything

2274
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:12,520
on zoom.
But people want to be in the

2275
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:15,920
same building as each other and
rub elbows and read the same

2276
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:18,320
error and whatever, like that's
been going on for thousands of

2277
01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:19,320
years.
So what about the idea?

2278
01:57:19,320 --> 01:57:23,240
Where systems designers are
going to go away because AI can

2279
01:57:23,240 --> 01:57:28,720
do it much better or or or
console programmers can you

2280
01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:32,760
know, AI will be able to do it
much better very, very soon, by

2281
01:57:32,760 --> 01:57:34,640
the way.
Yeah, I think that the.

2282
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:38,600
I don't know.
The thing is that the if for an

2283
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:41,320
artist or whoever that's going
to talk to the person who's

2284
01:57:41,320 --> 01:57:43,880
going to program it, they want
to talk to AI mean there'll be

2285
01:57:43,880 --> 01:57:45,800
somebody that wants to do
everything themselves.

2286
01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:47,600
You know, Bjork or whatever
wants to do something on her

2287
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:49,840
laptop.
I think she's yeah, ante I

2288
01:57:49,840 --> 01:57:52,920
whatever, but I mean what it's
about is a relationship with the

2289
01:57:52,920 --> 01:57:55,160
person with the designer you're
talking about.

2290
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:57,640
The designer might use it as a
tool set to do.

2291
01:57:57,640 --> 01:58:01,320
I know like you had Bob Boney on
here, like he had a fantastic

2292
01:58:01,400 --> 01:58:05,600
explanation of it.
And I think in audio, like

2293
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:08,600
there's lots of things that
existed over the years for this,

2294
01:58:08,600 --> 01:58:11,920
but the the mixing stuff is
still a human thing and you

2295
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:13,800
still have to have somebody
there every night anyway.

2296
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:17,880
So I don't think that's going
away because I don't think what

2297
01:58:18,240 --> 01:58:19,280
why do you have to have
somebody?

2298
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:20,960
There every night, because in
the end, the art.

2299
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:23,840
Well, mixing monitors, the
artist needs to go talk to

2300
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:26,840
somebody and also the management
has to be like, well, there's a

2301
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:29,960
problem over there.
If there's some AI mixing it,

2302
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:32,440
somebody would have to program
it somehow.

2303
01:58:33,320 --> 01:58:35,480
And it's very I can't AI do
that.

2304
01:58:36,160 --> 01:58:39,400
Like this is this is my argument
is, is that like even having

2305
01:58:39,400 --> 01:58:41,920
that conversation?
So, you know, I don't know how

2306
01:58:41,920 --> 01:58:45,080
deep you've got into it at all.
You seem like a guy that if you

2307
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:49,080
were working a full time gig
right now, you'd probably be

2308
01:58:49,080 --> 01:58:52,200
incorporating AI because there's
so many things that it can do

2309
01:58:52,200 --> 01:58:56,080
that make your job easier.
But like, for example, I go for

2310
01:58:56,160 --> 01:59:00,080
an hour and a half walk every
morning or whatever, and I I

2311
01:59:00,080 --> 01:59:02,480
will talk with ChatGPT.
I'll actually have a

2312
01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:04,440
conversation.
Hey, I've got this problem.

2313
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:06,840
You know, what do you think?
What are some options that we

2314
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:09,520
can fix this problem?
Oh, well, have you thought about

2315
01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:11,720
doing this or this or this?
Well, yeah, I thought about

2316
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:13,280
that.
But you know, like I'm

2317
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:17,120
conversing like you and I are
talking right now and it's

2318
01:59:17,120 --> 01:59:18,440
answering.
You're also giving me.

2319
01:59:18,440 --> 01:59:20,280
Feedback, yeah.
But then you're also.

2320
01:59:20,280 --> 01:59:23,760
Hosting a weekly podcast where
you talk to humans all around

2321
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:26,480
the world every week yeah, I
think it doesn't replace that

2322
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:30,240
it's just an augments that and
it's a way it gives you ideas

2323
01:59:30,240 --> 01:59:33,400
and helps you do think I think
it's great yeah but I think and

2324
01:59:33,400 --> 01:59:37,520
I also to me there's I mean
clearly you can spew out some AI

2325
01:59:37,560 --> 01:59:41,600
music video, whatever you can
make some slop video that will

2326
01:59:41,600 --> 01:59:44,960
replace the bottom tier on
Netflix or whatever but I don't

2327
01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:47,240
know me I don't think people are
interested in looking at that

2328
01:59:47,240 --> 01:59:49,400
stuff because not there's some
people what if you don't know

2329
01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:52,640
the difference because.
You're not gonna Yeah, but the

2330
01:59:52,760 --> 01:59:54,880
the issue.
With that is like look at the

2331
01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:59,440
like gossip industry what people
talk about as movie stars and

2332
01:59:59,440 --> 02:00:03,600
whoever and who's you know Jlo
broke up with whatever yeah if

2333
02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:05,640
it's meaningful yeah if.
It's some.

2334
02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:09,080
So they care about the people
involved and they want to hear

2335
02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:13,200
that person goes on, you know,
Instagram and wait, show

2336
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:15,920
whatever talks about working on
this thing.

2337
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:18,880
It's about their experience and
the people connect with that

2338
02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:19,920
relationship.
Human.

2339
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:22,280
Yeah, yeah, Relationship I.
Mean there's a big controversy.

2340
02:00:22,280 --> 02:00:26,360
Right now with the movie about
the architect or people, what's,

2341
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:29,800
I forgot the name of it, the
Brutalist, that there's a whole

2342
02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:32,840
big controversy because they
apparently used also AI is sort

2343
02:00:32,840 --> 02:00:34,920
of like immersive, like, you
know the difference.

2344
02:00:34,920 --> 02:00:37,120
But there's a lot of people are
calling things AI that are not

2345
02:00:37,200 --> 02:00:37,960
AI.
Yeah.

2346
02:00:38,520 --> 02:00:40,520
So but they use some techniques
right now.

2347
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:41,880
Yeah, yeah.
They use some.

2348
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:45,080
Techniques to like clean up some
dialect or like Hungarian

2349
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:47,920
dialect or something and people
all bent out of shape about it.

2350
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:51,240
But like, you know, I know about
the movie because I saw the

2351
02:00:51,240 --> 02:00:54,720
actor get interviewed on TV
about it or whatever right.

2352
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:57,880
That's what so I think the human
aspect of it never goes away.

2353
02:00:58,120 --> 02:01:01,520
So I'm I have no interest in
watching some computer generate

2354
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:03,320
anything.
And again, why we could have

2355
02:01:03,320 --> 02:01:04,160
done that?
No, but why?

2356
02:01:04,160 --> 02:01:07,480
If it's really really.
Good and the storyline is good

2357
02:01:07,480 --> 02:01:09,480
and the is that what the
characters?

2358
02:01:09,480 --> 02:01:11,880
That it builds.
In the movie, you know, but

2359
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:14,200
here's the here's the next thing
that's going to happen.

2360
02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:19,000
Like Marlon Brando's family will
will sell the likeness of Marlon

2361
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:22,400
Brando and you can see a
Godfather Five with Marlon

2362
02:01:22,400 --> 02:01:24,120
Brando in it or something, you
know?

2363
02:01:24,320 --> 02:01:26,120
But yeah, that would.
Have to be you'd have to get

2364
02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:29,640
Copa or somebody to direct it to
make it, to make it interesting

2365
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:31,960
to look at.
But I would say, you know the

2366
02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:33,560
same thing now there.
I mean, that's what you're

2367
02:01:33,560 --> 02:01:36,360
seeing now with like it's not
AI, but this ABBA thing I'm

2368
02:01:36,360 --> 02:01:40,160
going to see next month, like
that's like licensed by the band

2369
02:01:40,160 --> 02:01:41,880
because they're all in their 80s
or whatever.

2370
02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:45,600
That that's a way to leverage
out this music that people love

2371
02:01:45,600 --> 02:01:47,000
and have an experience with
that.

2372
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:50,400
But it's still like people and
people are getting together to

2373
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:53,640
see it and people came up with
that idea because I'm, but I

2374
02:01:53,640 --> 02:01:58,600
think the other thing about if,
again, AI aside, which is good,

2375
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:00,360
is more powerful than things
existed.

2376
02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:03,680
But it wouldn't, we could have
already made animated movies

2377
02:02:03,680 --> 02:02:06,720
with computer generated dialogue
10 years ago.

2378
02:02:07,080 --> 02:02:10,280
But look at every I'm, I'm not a
big, I'm not a Marvel guy or

2379
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:13,880
whatever, but the look at all
the animated movies.

2380
02:02:14,360 --> 02:02:17,400
They're all filled with big
actors doing voice over and they

2381
02:02:17,400 --> 02:02:18,840
love it.
They go and sit in the studio

2382
02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:20,640
for a day, do their lines and
they're out.

2383
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:24,120
But then that's what people go
to see, like, oh, it's so and so

2384
02:02:24,120 --> 02:02:26,720
is in this movie.
And they're connecting to that

2385
02:02:26,720 --> 02:02:29,480
person as a real person, you
know, the younger.

2386
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:33,160
Generations.
My son's 20 and he couldn't name

2387
02:02:33,160 --> 02:02:35,360
an actor for for the life of
him.

2388
02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:37,080
Yeah, he.
Watches movies.

2389
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:42,040
All the time on Netflix with
unknown young actors who are

2390
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:44,960
like insert new guy, insert new
guy, insert new guy.

2391
02:02:45,480 --> 02:02:49,600
And so, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a
little more call it either

2392
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:52,280
pessimistic or optimistic
depending on your viewpoint.

2393
02:02:53,400 --> 02:02:57,880
I do believe that we're going to
see full Netflix series and and

2394
02:02:57,880 --> 02:03:02,080
Apple series and everybody
series that are 100% AIAI

2395
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:04,000
generated.
Is it in the next couple of

2396
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:05,360
years, right.
But in that.

2397
02:03:05,360 --> 02:03:09,200
Case, how is that happening?
Is the AI deciding to make a

2398
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:12,000
movie or is there some person
telling the AI what to do?

2399
02:03:12,160 --> 02:03:15,160
I mean what I believe.
Is going to happen.

2400
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:22,600
Is old directors, old writers,
old even actors are going to

2401
02:03:22,600 --> 02:03:27,000
sell out.
And so a director will basically

2402
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:30,440
train an AI model and say,
here's my style, here's how I do

2403
02:03:30,440 --> 02:03:33,400
things.
I'm signing off all of the

2404
02:03:33,640 --> 02:03:40,880
basically directorial rights to
my my package of movies or

2405
02:03:40,880 --> 02:03:43,000
whatever.
So you can go look at my skill

2406
02:03:43,000 --> 02:03:45,560
set on all of those.
I'm giving you permission to do

2407
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:50,400
that and to basically copy my
style verbatim.

2408
02:03:50,680 --> 02:03:54,080
And so now there will be a John
Huntington and there will be a

2409
02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:56,840
John Huntington slash AI or
whatever.

2410
02:03:57,240 --> 02:04:00,240
And so you'll know it's done by
the AII.

2411
02:04:01,080 --> 02:04:04,600
Forget which director example
you used, but yeah, you'll know

2412
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:08,760
it's done by Coppola or whoever,
by an AI version of Coppola.

2413
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:12,240
And then I think out of intrigue
and and curiosity and stuff,

2414
02:04:12,240 --> 02:04:15,840
people are going to go see it to
and then compare it to the

2415
02:04:15,840 --> 02:04:18,440
original Coppola.
You know, the real Coppola is

2416
02:04:18,440 --> 02:04:20,960
better than this Coppola or
whatever, but it's going to be

2417
02:04:20,960 --> 02:04:23,840
better than the real Coppola.
Yeah, that's the problem.

2418
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:27,280
Well, I think it's interesting
because I think that if you're

2419
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:30,560
correct, which would be a very
depressing future for me and

2420
02:04:30,560 --> 02:04:33,440
time to go live in the woods at
that point, but the we're all

2421
02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:34,720
going to end up there in the
woods.

2422
02:04:34,920 --> 02:04:39,440
Yeah, yeah.
But the I think that's also, I

2423
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:42,800
think it's if you think about
like a hit song and I, there's a

2424
02:04:42,800 --> 02:04:48,040
great podcast I listen to
history, Rock'n'roll, 500 songs.

2425
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,160
I love that.
One, Yeah, this guy Andrew.

2426
02:04:50,160 --> 02:04:55,760
Hickey and again, again, I think
about that he's on Blue Sky like

2427
02:04:55,760 --> 02:05:00,320
he he's, I think of him That's a
personal expression of his.

2428
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:04,000
Could you have had an AI like
write something like that?

2429
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:05,800
I wouldn't.
It would have been very dry and

2430
02:05:05,800 --> 02:05:07,400
whatever.
But the point I was going to

2431
02:05:07,400 --> 02:05:10,800
make though, is like, and also
there's another guy in music,

2432
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:14,120
Bob Webster, who has some really
interesting stuff, but he writes

2433
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:16,080
a lot about his too.
Yeah.

2434
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:18,960
So hit.
Again, that's a guy, you know,

2435
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:23,320
like I'm not relating to him as
a person through his material.

2436
02:05:23,320 --> 02:05:26,240
And but anyway, like think about
a hit song.

2437
02:05:27,280 --> 02:05:30,360
If it was possible to just sort
of come up with the formula for

2438
02:05:30,360 --> 02:05:33,240
a hit song, then it would have
just it would have happened.

2439
02:05:33,240 --> 02:05:36,960
There's some sort of like human
unknown thing in there that I, I

2440
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:40,520
just seem I'm very I'm doubtful
that that's going to be achieved

2441
02:05:40,520 --> 02:05:43,480
in AI probably in my lifetime.
So we'll see.

2442
02:05:43,760 --> 02:05:46,200
We could wager on some Ha fair.
We'll make a little.

2443
02:05:46,200 --> 02:05:50,120
Friendly bet on that one because
I I believe exactly the

2444
02:05:50,120 --> 02:05:52,000
opposite.
I think all hit music is going

2445
02:05:52,000 --> 02:05:54,200
to be AI generated in the future
now.

2446
02:05:54,320 --> 02:05:56,040
This is why.
It should be interesting to read

2447
02:05:56,040 --> 02:05:59,600
the lab sets about this because
like go look at the Spotify top

2448
02:05:59,600 --> 02:06:02,400
part of it's me being old, like
I don't relate to it.

2449
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:05,880
Yeah, none of these.
You look at the longevity unit,

2450
02:06:05,880 --> 02:06:09,120
those acts and some of them
there, there is AI slop on

2451
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:14,760
Spotify and you see the whole
controversy last year with the

2452
02:06:14,880 --> 02:06:20,040
like they would take, you know,
Frank Sinatra's, you know, fake

2453
02:06:20,040 --> 02:06:23,920
Frank Sinatra and play these old
standards and somebody just sort

2454
02:06:23,920 --> 02:06:25,360
of listening to background
music.

2455
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:28,560
But they're they're recreating
what it was and it's sort of

2456
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:31,520
background music for them.
But that's not getting popular.

2457
02:06:31,520 --> 02:06:35,240
That's sort of the like the low
end, the sort of, you know, I

2458
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:37,040
mean, I.
Hope you're right, by the way.

2459
02:06:37,240 --> 02:06:40,000
So I'm, I'm not advocating for
any of this.

2460
02:06:40,040 --> 02:06:41,640
I just believe it's coming.
Yeah.

2461
02:06:41,960 --> 02:06:43,840
And things like that Will.
Happen.

2462
02:06:43,840 --> 02:06:46,480
I just don't.
I think in the end, and maybe

2463
02:06:46,480 --> 02:06:48,800
because I just like, hang around
with like we're saying like

2464
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:52,160
weird, you know, the artists and
musicians and circus people are

2465
02:06:52,160 --> 02:06:53,160
players.
Yeah, yeah.

2466
02:06:53,160 --> 02:06:55,240
And I I'm.
Somebody that's worked this

2467
02:06:55,240 --> 02:06:57,960
business forever, like I don't
really go to big stadium shows

2468
02:06:57,960 --> 02:07:00,080
unless I'm working or I have a
connection or whatever.

2469
02:07:00,360 --> 02:07:04,480
I go see and these are still you
know, live music is fizzling out

2470
02:07:04,480 --> 02:07:07,000
in the big picture, but I go see
my friends play in small venues

2471
02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:09,840
in New York.
But even again, while this is

2472
02:07:09,840 --> 02:07:13,560
another good example, I just
talking about these like this

2473
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:15,480
avant gardener.
There's a bunch of these places

2474
02:07:15,480 --> 02:07:18,800
in New York where there's 1000
young kids in there till 4:00 in

2475
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:22,440
the morning with a DJ, but
they're there's still a stage

2476
02:07:22,440 --> 02:07:26,280
and they're looking at the DJ in
the in the front a person.

2477
02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:29,800
Half the time they're not doing
anything Yeah, but that some

2478
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:32,120
could they use some AI to
generate something.

2479
02:07:32,120 --> 02:07:35,000
But again, the kids are there
because they are waiting to the

2480
02:07:35,320 --> 02:07:40,080
Yeah, so no, but so there's.
DJ, there's DJ software, right,

2481
02:07:40,280 --> 02:07:43,040
that creates your set based on
who you're playing to or

2482
02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:44,480
whatever.
And it's, there's original

2483
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:46,240
music.
Yeah, there's not 3000.

2484
02:07:46,240 --> 02:07:50,760
Kids going to see the AI play
live that's when that happens

2485
02:07:50,760 --> 02:07:54,320
then I that's when I'm like well
yeah cuz I mean at the end of

2486
02:07:54,320 --> 02:07:56,200
the.
Day, like you said, how do they

2487
02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:59,760
know that the guy in the mouse
head right is actually dead

2488
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:02,000
mouse?
The guy was actually, and he's

2489
02:08:02,000 --> 02:08:03,200
a.
He's a really interesting

2490
02:08:03,200 --> 02:08:05,520
technical guy.
He is on the very podcast, Yeah.

2491
02:08:05,880 --> 02:08:08,560
But but, you know, they don't
actually do anything.

2492
02:08:08,560 --> 02:08:11,160
They just go like this and they
touch knobs and they pretend

2493
02:08:11,160 --> 02:08:13,640
they're doing things and then
they go like this for a little

2494
02:08:13,640 --> 02:08:17,520
while and then they touch knob.
So are the people there for the

2495
02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:19,720
atmosphere?
Are the people there for the

2496
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:22,920
actual music, or are the people
there for the guy who's standing

2497
02:08:22,920 --> 02:08:24,920
there going like this?
And I think it's it's the.

2498
02:08:24,920 --> 02:08:26,920
Community, I think that's what
they're there for.

2499
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:29,280
Yeah, I think.
And there's another place here

2500
02:08:29,280 --> 02:08:32,840
like my friends at Rational
Acoustics, they did a which

2501
02:08:32,840 --> 02:08:36,040
makes smart software.
They did a training class here

2502
02:08:36,200 --> 02:08:39,880
in a little like underground
club and I'm like, I went and

2503
02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:42,520
helped out my friends of the
class and I'm like, that sounds.

2504
02:08:42,520 --> 02:08:44,960
I've never heard of this place.
You know, I, I pay attention to

2505
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:47,880
all this stuff and it's a little
tiny, like underground place

2506
02:08:47,880 --> 02:08:51,640
called it's hollow, but it's
with zeros instead of OS.

2507
02:08:52,040 --> 02:08:55,160
And they have they spent a lot
of money, very Spartan looking

2508
02:08:55,160 --> 02:08:58,000
place with a lot of money on the
acoustics of this building big

2509
02:08:58,000 --> 02:09:00,000
sound system.
And what's kind of interesting

2510
02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:02,640
is not very big, but they put
the DJ in the center of the

2511
02:09:02,640 --> 02:09:05,360
room.
So interesting thing.

2512
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:07,320
And I'm always and this is what
fascinates.

2513
02:09:07,320 --> 02:09:11,760
I think about this all the time,
like why does everybody do that?

2514
02:09:11,760 --> 02:09:13,600
This does kind of make sense.
When you say.

2515
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:17,160
It and I also think you're
talking about the sphere.

2516
02:09:17,640 --> 02:09:19,920
When I finally sat in there, I'm
like, wow, this should have been

2517
02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:22,040
a planetarium.
Because if you put the artist in

2518
02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:25,120
the middle, everybody would have
had that view and everybody

2519
02:09:25,120 --> 02:09:28,560
would have had the video view
instead of people on the floor

2520
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:31,160
see the human thing and
everybody else sees the video

2521
02:09:31,160 --> 02:09:32,640
with a little tiny specks.
Yeah.

2522
02:09:32,920 --> 02:09:34,840
Yeah, that's a.
Really good point, really good

2523
02:09:34,840 --> 02:09:38,840
point and this place.
Runs 48 hour weekend parties and

2524
02:09:38,840 --> 02:09:42,160
they fly DJs in from Berlin to
do it.

2525
02:09:42,360 --> 02:09:45,160
But I think it's, again, this is
the like kids are going to see

2526
02:09:45,160 --> 02:09:48,200
like, oh DJ so and so from
Berlin is coming this weekend.

2527
02:09:48,440 --> 02:09:52,840
It's not like the DJAI laptop
software is going to play.

2528
02:09:52,840 --> 02:09:55,360
We're going to go yeah, that'll
be the background music.

2529
02:09:55,440 --> 02:09:57,600
Yeah, you know, which is fine,
you know whatever.

2530
02:09:57,600 --> 02:10:01,120
And that's sort of where it, it
just drives artists even further

2531
02:10:01,120 --> 02:10:04,320
out of the financial equation.
But the but I think it's the

2532
02:10:04,320 --> 02:10:09,080
community and that idea again,
this ABBA thing I I can talk to

2533
02:10:09,080 --> 02:10:11,520
a lot more about after I see it
because I stopped researching

2534
02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:14,760
anything on it.
But this is like 3000 seats.

2535
02:10:14,760 --> 02:10:17,360
It's been running for two years
and they do six or seven shows a

2536
02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:20,680
week in there and it's kicking.
Yeah, you could watch.

2537
02:10:20,680 --> 02:10:24,480
That online, but it's not people
go because they want to be in

2538
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:28,440
that room and they want to be,
you know, even though they know

2539
02:10:28,440 --> 02:10:30,920
they're watching a video, they
don't.

2540
02:10:31,680 --> 02:10:34,880
And I, my friends have told me
it's pretty, you know, like it's

2541
02:10:34,880 --> 02:10:37,640
a remarkable achievement in
terms of the integration and

2542
02:10:37,640 --> 02:10:38,840
stuff.
That's why I want to go see it.

2543
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:42,560
But it's it's about being in the
room with all that and

2544
02:10:42,560 --> 02:10:45,480
identifying with these humans of
the span.

2545
02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:48,960
Well, we.
We have a, we have a, a new

2546
02:10:48,960 --> 02:10:52,240
podcast coming out.
Actually the first episode is in

2547
02:10:52,240 --> 02:10:56,760
three days on Friday and it's
called Gears of Gear Future,

2548
02:10:57,400 --> 02:11:01,680
Future Tech.
And basically what it is, is is

2549
02:11:01,680 --> 02:11:04,800
when new product is coming out
in our industry still to this

2550
02:11:04,800 --> 02:11:08,960
day, the only way to really
learn about it is to go on to

2551
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:12,240
one of the magazine websites or
whatever or get on a mailing

2552
02:11:12,240 --> 02:11:14,440
list and to read a long press
release.

2553
02:11:14,840 --> 02:11:19,040
And So what we've done is we've
created an AI podcast, OK, that

2554
02:11:19,040 --> 02:11:21,760
I heard you tell you about that.
Yeah, it tells you about the new

2555
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:25,640
product coming from whatever
company happens to be the one

2556
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:27,360
that sent us that information,
right?

2557
02:11:27,720 --> 02:11:31,040
And it's two hosts and they talk
back and forth.

2558
02:11:31,600 --> 02:11:35,240
It sounds incredibly natural.
It might not fool you now that

2559
02:11:35,240 --> 02:11:38,800
especially you know that it's an
AI podcast, but give it a listen

2560
02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:42,120
just because, because like the
logo that we created for it was

2561
02:11:42,120 --> 02:11:45,040
done on AI.
The, the music was done by AI.

2562
02:11:45,360 --> 02:11:49,160
The, and the podcast itself,
it's entirely AI.

2563
02:11:49,160 --> 02:11:53,080
And even there's a part where I
speak at the end, which is AI.

2564
02:11:53,240 --> 02:11:57,080
It's just basically copied and
pasted text into an AI copy of

2565
02:11:57,080 --> 02:12:00,640
my voice.
And so The thing is 100% AI,

2566
02:12:00,640 --> 02:12:05,240
except for Sarah who clipped in
and put some things together.

2567
02:12:05,480 --> 02:12:08,080
But aside from that, it's 100%
AI.

2568
02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:12,640
And I think we're on to
something because I would rather

2569
02:12:12,640 --> 02:12:17,560
listen to two people talk about
a press release then then read a

2570
02:12:17,560 --> 02:12:21,280
press release.
And so we'll see, you know,

2571
02:12:21,280 --> 02:12:23,280
we'll see if we get an audience
for it or not.

2572
02:12:23,480 --> 02:12:24,800
We're not trying to trick
people.

2573
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:27,800
We're not going to create like
this would be the bad thing, I

2574
02:12:27,800 --> 02:12:30,240
think, is if, because I've had
people tell me you got to go

2575
02:12:30,240 --> 02:12:34,000
create personas for the two
hosts and and give them Facebook

2576
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:37,520
pages and names.
And now we're just deceiving

2577
02:12:37,520 --> 02:12:38,720
people.
And I don't want to be

2578
02:12:38,720 --> 02:12:40,680
deceptive.
I'm telling people right up

2579
02:12:40,680 --> 02:12:42,560
front.
It's it's AII mean.

2580
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:46,480
Are we going out and and telling
people in the audience full on

2581
02:12:46,480 --> 02:12:49,360
this is an AI podcast.
It's not unless they figure it

2582
02:12:49,360 --> 02:12:51,960
out or they hear this podcast.
You're talking about it.

2583
02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:55,160
Yeah.
So not trying to dupe anyone,

2584
02:12:55,160 --> 02:12:56,600
but.
And I think you just.

2585
02:12:56,600 --> 02:13:00,080
Reminded me of another example
where Facebook made these AI

2586
02:13:00,520 --> 02:13:02,040
people have been floating around
to start.

2587
02:13:02,040 --> 02:13:04,280
Conversations and keep
conversations going.

2588
02:13:04,280 --> 02:13:06,680
It tanked like nobody.
Well, it's a terrible.

2589
02:13:06,680 --> 02:13:10,680
Idea well, but then again.
I don't want to interact with a

2590
02:13:10,680 --> 02:13:12,280
virtual.
I mean, there, there are people

2591
02:13:12,280 --> 02:13:13,960
that do this.
I, I just personally have no

2592
02:13:13,960 --> 02:13:16,560
interest in interacting with a
virtual other than like you're

2593
02:13:16,560 --> 02:13:19,200
talking about, you're talking
to, you know, chat, TBT or

2594
02:13:19,200 --> 02:13:21,520
whatever, like it's helping you
on something you're doing.

2595
02:13:22,200 --> 02:13:25,320
But to interact with a like
virtual person that doesn't

2596
02:13:25,320 --> 02:13:29,720
really exist.
And I think too, like podcasting

2597
02:13:29,720 --> 02:13:34,120
obviously is a huge, as you
know, huge thing, but you have a

2598
02:13:34,120 --> 02:13:37,720
thing at LDI, like in person,
like every podcast I know does

2599
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:40,240
in person events.
And like there's one political

2600
02:13:40,240 --> 02:13:42,920
when I listen to where they had
a thing in DC and I went and met

2601
02:13:42,920 --> 02:13:45,960
the woman that's on a thing.
Like that's what I remember is

2602
02:13:45,960 --> 02:13:48,400
like the human interaction I had
with this podcast host.

2603
02:13:48,400 --> 02:13:49,840
Yeah, you make a good point.
Yeah.

2604
02:13:49,840 --> 02:13:53,840
So I mean, is it useful again?
This is right VR like I

2605
02:13:53,840 --> 02:13:57,120
wouldn't.
I saw it what, 40 years ago and

2606
02:13:57,120 --> 02:13:59,280
they were doing Arkansas, they
were doing like virtual drum

2607
02:13:59,280 --> 02:14:00,520
stuff.
And I'm like, this is really

2608
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:03,200
cool.
Has great applications, gaming,

2609
02:14:03,240 --> 02:14:07,200
pre vis architectural but I
don't think it replaces that

2610
02:14:07,200 --> 02:14:09,600
live experience or the human
experience anyway.

2611
02:14:09,600 --> 02:14:12,040
So I think it's.
And that's so it's the same way

2612
02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:13,120
you've.
Got that right?

2613
02:14:13,120 --> 02:14:16,440
Like, so I don't think AI is
going to replace theater.

2614
02:14:16,440 --> 02:14:18,320
I don't think it's going to
replace live music.

2615
02:14:18,320 --> 02:14:22,920
I don't think it's going to.
But when you talk about a movie,

2616
02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:27,120
right, you know, a movie, unless
I really want to stuff Tom

2617
02:14:27,120 --> 02:14:30,200
Cruise's pockets full of more
cash, right?

2618
02:14:30,280 --> 02:14:33,440
You know, do I really care if
he's the next Maverick or if

2619
02:14:33,440 --> 02:14:36,200
it's an AC version that's the
next Maverick.

2620
02:14:36,200 --> 02:14:38,560
That's whatever you think.
About it, like, he's a good case

2621
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:40,880
because that guy has a
complicated past.

2622
02:14:41,080 --> 02:14:43,760
Yeah, a lot of very problematic,
Yeah.

2623
02:14:43,760 --> 02:14:46,960
I mean, people, he's a movie
star.

2624
02:14:46,960 --> 02:14:49,840
And being a movie star is not
the just the screen stuff.

2625
02:14:49,840 --> 02:14:53,360
It's all the other things that
come about knowing him.

2626
02:14:53,360 --> 02:14:55,800
And like, I saw Tom Cruise in
this thing.

2627
02:14:56,400 --> 02:14:58,960
That's the thing.
That sort of interaction, I

2628
02:14:58,960 --> 02:15:01,880
think is what people value.
Yeah, we'll see, man.

2629
02:15:02,040 --> 02:15:07,320
You make a very valid argument,
and again, I'm not advocating

2630
02:15:07,320 --> 02:15:09,680
for AI.
I'm not hoping that it takes

2631
02:15:09,680 --> 02:15:12,600
anyone's jobs.
I think I'm just being very

2632
02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:16,240
realistic and, and preparing
myself for the fact that it's,

2633
02:15:16,440 --> 02:15:21,040
it's trying to to, you know,
bypass me and I want to do

2634
02:15:21,040 --> 02:15:25,760
everything I can to, to use it
to a point where I'm harder to

2635
02:15:25,760 --> 02:15:27,720
bypass.
Right, You know which I.

2636
02:15:27,760 --> 02:15:29,720
Think that strategically it
makes a lot of sense.

2637
02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:32,800
Yeah, I'd say one other thing I
think that informs my thinking

2638
02:15:32,800 --> 02:15:36,560
on this is writing about show
control since I've been doing it

2639
02:15:36,560 --> 02:15:39,800
since 1980, whatever, and
writing him since the mid 90s.

2640
02:15:40,040 --> 02:15:44,440
Yeah, over the years I've had
people call up with, you know,

2641
02:15:44,440 --> 02:15:46,720
like, oh, we want to have you
come in and just, you know, get

2642
02:15:46,720 --> 02:15:50,440
rid of this crew and automate
everything and do that.

2643
02:15:50,440 --> 02:15:52,520
And that's certainly a way to do
it.

2644
02:15:52,520 --> 02:15:54,760
But in my experience, what
happens with most these new

2645
02:15:54,760 --> 02:15:59,640
technologies and maybe AI is
different, but the what happens

2646
02:15:59,640 --> 02:16:02,240
is that people do more for the
same budget.

2647
02:16:02,240 --> 02:16:06,880
Like you just have more and you
think about like a theme park is

2648
02:16:06,880 --> 02:16:09,840
a good example like that.
Theme parks basically exist

2649
02:16:09,840 --> 02:16:12,040
because show control technology
exists.

2650
02:16:12,320 --> 02:16:14,320
Could you do it?
Like we, when we first started

2651
02:16:14,320 --> 02:16:16,960
our we did a haunted house at my
school for 20 years.

2652
02:16:17,200 --> 02:16:19,600
We used to have 6000 people a
year come through this thing.

2653
02:16:20,000 --> 02:16:21,520
The first year we didn't have
any budget.

2654
02:16:21,520 --> 02:16:24,600
So we had some kids like, you
know, when they come through

2655
02:16:24,600 --> 02:16:28,640
drop the spiders, you know, pull
this rope that is horrible job.

2656
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:31,480
Like they needed it, but.
Machines are very good at that.

2657
02:16:31,800 --> 02:16:34,559
And that makes it affordable,
and that's why you go see, you

2658
02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:36,520
know, Rise of the Resistance or
something like that.

2659
02:16:36,520 --> 02:16:38,080
Yeah, Yeah.
Which is.

2660
02:16:38,080 --> 02:16:40,040
That makes sense, but that means
but.

2661
02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:42,680
These technologies basically
leverage and rise Resist is a

2662
02:16:42,680 --> 02:16:44,879
good example because I don't
think they invented anything for

2663
02:16:44,879 --> 02:16:46,639
that.
They just integrated all this

2664
02:16:46,639 --> 02:16:48,000
stuff really well.
Yeah.

2665
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:51,959
I think to me, AI is another
tool where we can do even more

2666
02:16:51,959 --> 02:16:55,920
stuff for the same budget or
more, you know, is there

2667
02:16:55,920 --> 02:16:58,920
somebody that gets for, I mean,
coder you mentioned before, like

2668
02:16:58,920 --> 02:17:02,280
that's a job that's at risk
customer, sports specialists,

2669
02:17:02,280 --> 02:17:04,600
that kind of thing.
Those are not growth areas.

2670
02:17:04,600 --> 02:17:09,120
This is an interesting one.
Because right now like if you're

2671
02:17:09,120 --> 02:17:13,160
a decent coder that hasn't has
knowledge of coding AI.

2672
02:17:14,240 --> 02:17:17,480
You've got jobs.
Out though hoop, I mean there's

2673
02:17:17,480 --> 02:17:21,879
just thousands, millions of jobs
out there for AI coders, but

2674
02:17:21,879 --> 02:17:25,959
you're basically creating the
thing that's gonna do that's

2675
02:17:25,959 --> 02:17:28,680
gonna put you completely out of
work Yeah, they're probably.

2676
02:17:28,680 --> 02:17:32,320
Using AI to like, I don't wanna
write this complex syntax, this

2677
02:17:32,320 --> 02:17:34,680
thing, but they're replacing
yourself.

2678
02:17:34,680 --> 02:17:38,760
Yeah, you're literally creating
the product that's gonna kill

2679
02:17:38,760 --> 02:17:40,000
it.
And again like.

2680
02:17:40,360 --> 02:17:45,040
If I'm somebody business that
needs some software and again,

2681
02:17:45,040 --> 02:17:46,480
our business is a good example
of this.

2682
02:17:46,480 --> 02:17:49,520
Like I was working, I, I think I
didn't even mention I worked for

2683
02:17:49,520 --> 02:17:51,719
this company called Thoughtful
Designs for this guy George

2684
02:17:51,719 --> 02:17:54,600
Kindler.
And I was sitting in the New

2685
02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:57,000
York offices when PRG was
happening.

2686
02:17:57,000 --> 02:17:59,879
So you know, that financial guy
was like in our office.

2687
02:17:59,879 --> 02:18:03,719
So I would hear all these
conversations and the oh man, I

2688
02:18:03,719 --> 02:18:05,280
just completely lost my train of
thoughts.

2689
02:18:05,280 --> 02:18:07,840
Sorry, what were you talking
about?

2690
02:18:08,600 --> 02:18:10,959
Replacing jobs.
Oh, right, yeah.

2691
02:18:12,360 --> 02:18:14,320
Wow, no, I stock whole design.
I'm just going to make a point

2692
02:18:14,320 --> 02:18:18,840
about it and the the PRG was.
Overtaking the world and yeah.

2693
02:18:18,840 --> 02:18:20,160
And what's I talking about
though?

2694
02:18:20,480 --> 02:18:22,600
Wow, I don't know, replacing.
Jobs.

2695
02:18:22,799 --> 02:18:26,520
Us being replaced.
Yeah, that's all good coders.

2696
02:18:27,400 --> 02:18:29,799
Wow, sorry, I completely it
happens.

2697
02:18:30,160 --> 02:18:34,240
Yeah, when you know, at 50.
I I think things just start

2698
02:18:34,240 --> 02:18:34,760
going.
Yeah.

2699
02:18:34,760 --> 02:18:36,440
You know what?
You need a little more space for

2700
02:18:36,440 --> 02:18:38,879
other stuff.
I'm just going to leave now, you

2701
02:18:38,879 --> 02:18:41,440
know, but as soon as we.
Hang up all week.

2702
02:18:41,480 --> 02:18:43,320
Oh, I wanted to make that point
about the things.

2703
02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:46,719
Yeah, send it to send.
It to Sarah, she'll she'll edit

2704
02:18:46,719 --> 02:18:47,559
it now.
That's right.

2705
02:18:48,160 --> 02:18:51,440
She'll probably AI me to like
make the make the thing.

2706
02:18:52,000 --> 02:18:56,360
You know what 1.
Thing that was very gracious of

2707
02:18:56,360 --> 02:19:00,520
you you offered to give away
your books to listeners and so

2708
02:19:00,520 --> 02:19:04,040
instead of us posting a link I
think what I would like to say

2709
02:19:04,040 --> 02:19:09,719
is that if you're hearing this
podcast and you want copies of

2710
02:19:09,719 --> 02:19:14,080
these books for free from John
which I think is a very kind

2711
02:19:14,080 --> 02:19:20,920
offer send an e-mail to
producer@geezersofgear.com or

2712
02:19:21,120 --> 02:19:26,080
post a comment on wherever
you're listening to the podcast

2713
02:19:26,240 --> 02:19:31,959
and we'll respond to you on that
comment and John will provide us

2714
02:19:31,959 --> 02:19:35,120
with with links to get those
books yeah so I'm.

2715
02:19:35,280 --> 02:19:37,639
Just not.
It's not unlimited just because

2716
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:39,680
I'll go broke doing that.
But yeah, I can.

2717
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:42,400
I can.
I have an ebook version, which I

2718
02:19:42,400 --> 02:19:44,080
can.
I have one, I have two books,

2719
02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:46,320
one introduction to show
networking, the other

2720
02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:48,080
introduction to show control.
Yeah.

2721
02:19:48,400 --> 02:19:52,000
So I can do one ebook of those
that's anywhere in the world.

2722
02:19:52,240 --> 02:19:55,600
And I have one print copy of
each one, which is just US for

2723
02:19:55,600 --> 02:19:57,280
shipping to make it easier.
Perfect.

2724
02:19:57,280 --> 02:19:59,440
And I guess Sarah.
Pick one of those.

2725
02:19:59,440 --> 02:20:02,360
People and ran so whoever will.
Just first come, first serve.

2726
02:20:02,360 --> 02:20:05,280
So, OK, there you go.
And when people come in, Sarah

2727
02:20:05,280 --> 02:20:07,320
will grab them and give those
away.

2728
02:20:07,320 --> 02:20:11,640
And we appreciate that.
And yeah, I mean, other than

2729
02:20:11,640 --> 02:20:13,000
that, it's been a great two
hours.

2730
02:20:13,000 --> 02:20:16,320
I can't believe we've been on
for two hours here already, so

2731
02:20:16,640 --> 02:20:18,000
just getting started on some
things.

2732
02:20:18,000 --> 02:20:19,080
Yeah, I know.
Well.

2733
02:20:19,080 --> 02:20:22,240
Jeez, and my brain is like
melting because you're too

2734
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:23,760
smart.
Like most of my guests aren't

2735
02:20:23,760 --> 02:20:29,560
quite as quite as educated.
So but I think it just being

2736
02:20:29,560 --> 02:20:32,920
being the well, I I'm going to
screw up the quote, but Bob

2737
02:20:32,920 --> 02:20:35,600
McCarthy, who's another person
you should have on here.

2738
02:20:36,160 --> 02:20:39,000
He had a great quote about
something and you just comes

2739
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:40,600
back to where you're talking
about before.

2740
02:20:40,720 --> 02:20:41,960
But why do you write and
everything?

2741
02:20:41,960 --> 02:20:45,080
But it's, and I'm going to mess
up the quote, but basically the

2742
02:20:45,080 --> 02:20:48,880
idea is like, if you share an
idea with somebody, like you get

2743
02:20:48,880 --> 02:20:51,520
something in return and now two
people have the idea and that's

2744
02:20:51,520 --> 02:20:53,240
really interesting.
Where if you just sort of keep

2745
02:20:53,240 --> 02:20:55,680
it to yourself, like you have
the idea and it's not as

2746
02:20:55,680 --> 02:20:57,280
interesting.
So it's, I think it's the

2747
02:20:57,280 --> 02:20:59,200
sharing part is what makes it
all interesting.

2748
02:20:59,200 --> 02:21:01,040
So so.
True.

2749
02:21:01,120 --> 02:21:03,120
I like that one.
Yeah.

2750
02:21:03,120 --> 02:21:04,920
Well, cool.
I appreciate you taking the time

2751
02:21:04,920 --> 02:21:07,040
today, John.
It's been it's been very

2752
02:21:07,040 --> 02:21:10,600
educational and I think we could
actually do it again at some

2753
02:21:10,600 --> 02:21:14,920
point if you'd like to and we
can get into even more crazy

2754
02:21:14,920 --> 02:21:16,680
stuff.
But then we and we should make.

2755
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:19,040
Some kind of AI wager at some
point, so.

2756
02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:21,840
Oh, absolutely.
I'm ready to think of the terms,

2757
02:21:21,840 --> 02:21:22,640
though.
I'm ready.

2758
02:21:23,240 --> 02:21:25,080
You tell me what the terms are
you.

2759
02:21:25,080 --> 02:21:27,680
Tell me because I think it's.
Going to supersede whatever you

2760
02:21:27,680 --> 02:21:31,040
come up with as those terms.
Well, that's like in many.

2761
02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:34,280
Fields though, it just the day
we're recording this, yesterday

2762
02:21:34,280 --> 02:21:37,560
a Chinese AI came out and
crashed the market.

2763
02:21:37,560 --> 02:21:40,280
So yeah, I talked about it.
I talked about it in the intro

2764
02:21:40,280 --> 02:21:44,000
DT Yeah, yeah.
So lots of things can happen,

2765
02:21:44,200 --> 02:21:50,720
roughly 80. 5 or 90% more
efficient than NVIDIA and are

2766
02:21:50,720 --> 02:21:54,680
then sorry then ChatGPT.
So Nvidia's selling less chips

2767
02:21:54,680 --> 02:21:57,800
basically is what it comes down
to and I've read somewhere.

2768
02:21:57,800 --> 02:21:59,960
It's, I don't know if it's true
or not, but their their model

2769
02:21:59,960 --> 02:22:02,440
had trained on the other models,
which I think is hilarious.

2770
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:05,080
Yeah, yeah.
Eating their children eating,

2771
02:22:05,080 --> 02:22:08,240
eating your competitors come.
Yeah, it's amazing.

2772
02:22:08,240 --> 02:22:11,080
They took lots of other.
Copyrighted stuff to eating

2773
02:22:11,080 --> 02:22:12,760
their model.
So it is literally the.

2774
02:22:12,760 --> 02:22:15,640
Wild, Wild West, because laws
are being created that didn't

2775
02:22:15,640 --> 02:22:19,120
exist before.
And, you know, it's just such a

2776
02:22:19,120 --> 02:22:22,400
new world that's so crazy.
And I think by the time we

2777
02:22:22,400 --> 02:22:26,480
figure it out, these models are
going to be sentient and it's

2778
02:22:26,480 --> 02:22:30,040
going to be too late.
So yeah, that's the problem.

2779
02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:31,840
Yeah.
Hi, John.

2780
02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:34,160
Thank you.
Have an amazing day.

2781
02:22:34,400 --> 02:22:35,120
Yeah.
Thank you.

2782
02:22:35,440 --> 02:22:35,720
Yeah.