#293 - Jeff Ravitz

1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:09,160
Episode #293 With Jeff Ravitz,
one of the earliest television,

2
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:16,560
I guess, lighting for televised
concert guys that there is out

3
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,360
there and was out there and
still doing it today at a very

4
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,440
high level, still working with
Bruce Springsteen today.

5
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,440
We had some great Bruce, Bruce
Springsteen stories, a great

6
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,600
stick story that I didn't know
and I've known Jeff for 20

7
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,520
something years.
Just a fantastic talk and a

8
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,680
lovely guy.
A lot to be learned from this

9
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,720
man.
It's why he's always invited to

10
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,480
panels and different educational
things.

11
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,320
He's a smart dude and he's got a
lot of great information.

12
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,960
So enjoy episode #293 with Jeff
Ravitz.

13
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,360
And please like and share and
subscribe.

14
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,680
Thank you.
Hello and thanks for joining me

15
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,520
again today on Geez of gear
#293.

16
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,640
This episode is brought to you
by Main Light, your go to dry

17
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,920
hire rental provider bringing
you the latest in lighting and

18
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,480
stage equipment.
From Moving lights and control

19
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,680
consoles to Truss LE DS and
rugged IP65 rated fixtures built

20
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,480
for outdoor venues, they have
everything you need to make your

21
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,400
productions shine.
Whether it be a small theater

22
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,560
venue, an outdoor stadium event,
or a television production set,

23
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,600
Main Light is the part you trust
with the gear you want.

24
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,560
In addition to rentals, Main
Light offered new equipment

25
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,520
sales from all of your favorite
brands as well as used sales on

26
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,560
equipment pulled directly from
their rental inventory.

27
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,400
With four strategies logically
located facilities in Teterboro,

28
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,800
NJ, Wilmington, DE, Nashville,
TN, and Las Vegas, NV, you get

29
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,040
the reach of a national company
with the personalized service of

30
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,480
a local provider.
Visit mainlight.com today to

31
00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,200
explore their rental options and
to request a direct quote

32
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,520
through their easy to use online
ordering platform.

33
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,200
And episode #293 is also brought
to you by Elation.

34
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,120
Elation Lighting is privately
held, established in 1992 and

35
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,520
headquartered in Los Angeles,
CA.

36
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,120
All products are developed and
engineered in the USA with sales

37
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:28,200
and support office locations in
the US, Mexico and Europe and

38
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,280
distribution via via a worldwide
dealer network.

39
00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,720
Please join me in watching their
Pulse series video.

40
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,480
Inspire your audience's
imagination with Elation's Pulse

41
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,400
Strobe series.
Designed to bolster creativity

42
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,480
and deliver breathtaking kinetic
intensity, the Pulse Series

43
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,160
empowers designers to create
dynamic lighting experiences

44
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,600
that captivate any audience.
The Pulse Series synthesizes

45
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,200
mesmerizing lighting experiences
with power and precision,

46
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,640
allowing designers to create
rhythmic, heart pounding

47
00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:09,280
lighting effects with effortless
control elations.

48
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:57,960
Pulse Series.
Well, although today's guest

49
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,760
hardly needs an introduction,
I'm going to give him one

50
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,520
anyway, and I am going to read
his bio as I usually do, and

51
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,240
I'll get to that in just a
moment.

52
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,720
But I did want to say that I've
recently seen him in Las Vegas

53
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:19,800
at LDI, where this gentleman
took part in our Dining with

54
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,600
Dinosaurs event.
And he was one of the big

55
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,800
highlights there, of course.
And I'm talking about Jeff

56
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,480
Ravitz and I'll get into his bio
in just a moment.

57
00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,520
But first, I wanted to remind
you because I haven't talked

58
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,640
about it in a long time.
And I'm going to bring up the

59
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,600
graphic here too.
Is coffee called Coffee who are

60
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:42,800
not officially a sponsor, but
they are the Gees of Gear brand

61
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,560
of coffee.
And I think haven't tried it.

62
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,640
Everyone who's tried it through
this podcast has told me, wow,

63
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,840
you're right.
I drink it every day.

64
00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,880
It's fantastic coffee and I pay
for it.

65
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,440
You can ask Jamie when you
contact Coffee Cult to order

66
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,000
some.
They'll tell you Marcel pays for

67
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,440
his coffee.
We don't pay him, we don't give

68
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,280
him free coffee to talk about
it.

69
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,400
And the reason that I pay for it
is because the money goes to a

70
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,640
good cause.
So Jamie and I cut a deal on

71
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,480
this.
Where this geezers of gear

72
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,360
geezers grind coffee from Coffee
Cult.

73
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:23,280
All of the proceeds go towards
Roby backstage, which then gives

74
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:28,160
that money away to a good cause
in our industry, one of our

75
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,240
fallen comrades or someone who
just needs help, and they

76
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,920
determine how that money gets
shared.

77
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,680
And so, yeah, first of all, try
it because it's great coffee and

78
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:45,760
you get it at coffeecult.com.
But secondly, buy it because it

79
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,560
does benefit our industry in a
very positive way.

80
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,640
So I did want to do that
quickly.

81
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,080
And now we'll go back to Mr.
Ravits.

82
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,960
Jeff is a prime time Emmy
winning lighting designer

83
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,040
specializing in live
entertainment for multi camera

84
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,160
television, concert tours and
special events.

85
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,160
His work includes award shows,
comedy specials, concert films,

86
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,280
and televised operas with
notable projects like the

87
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,280
Olympics, medal ceremonies, and
world tours for Bruce

88
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,080
Springsteen, Cher and Ringo
Starr.

89
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,720
Co-author of Lighting for
Televised Events, Jeff is also

90
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,520
the broadcast lighting
consultant for Coachella since

91
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,680
2016 and has designed permanent
lighting systems for venues

92
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,560
including L as Microsoft
Theater.

93
00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:40,440
A global lecturer and recipient
of numerous accolades well

94
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,560
deserved, by the way, including
a Sports Emmy and the Parnelli

95
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,240
Lighting Designer of the Year
award, Jeff leads his design

96
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,560
firm, Intensity Advisors in Los
Angeles.

97
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,120
So.
Please.

98
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,120
Welcome back to the podcast, Mr.
Jeff Rabbits.

99
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,880
Mr. Rabbits, how are you?
I'm great.

100
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,760
How are you, Marcel?
And flip, fantastic.

101
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,120
I'm very good.
It was, it was my mother's 94th

102
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,360
birthday yesterday and and she's
still alive and I'm so happy

103
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,960
that she's still alive.
And she, she is in a dementia

104
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,640
home.
But you know, we still have her

105
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,520
and and that's great.
So yeah, still kind of

106
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,400
celebrating because I'm just
happy she's there.

107
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,320
And you have some good DNA
there.

108
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,240
Well, let's hope.
I mean, other than the dementia

109
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,200
part, you know, I'm, I'm trying
to hang on to my brain as long

110
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,880
as I can.
But but yeah, I mean, she's

111
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,720
definitely, she's healthy other
than that.

112
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,640
Like that's the crazy thing.
I have a, a very good friend of

113
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,920
mine who just lost his mother.
She just had her 100th birthday,

114
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,520
I think at the beginning of
December or end of November, I

115
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,280
can't remember.
And then she died like the day

116
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,000
or the two days before Christmas
at at 100.

117
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,840
And she was the opposite of my
mom.

118
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,880
So she she had a very sharp
mind, like her brain.

119
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,360
She could tell you everything
that's happened in the last 50

120
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,360
years or 100 years, really
smart, really bright, but her

121
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,840
body just gave up and, and she
was 53 lbs when when she passed.

122
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,120
Oh, wow.
And, and my mom's healthy.

123
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,560
She eats really well, all of
that stuff, but just her mind is

124
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,760
gone.
So I don't know which is worse.

125
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,040
I, I've been talking to my
girlfriend about that.

126
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,680
Like, you know, if you had to
pick one, which would you pick?

127
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,280
And hopefully it's neither.
When you're aware but you see

128
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,919
yourself deteriorating, right?
Yeah.

129
00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:36,960
Or are you better off just not
knowing what's going on and, and

130
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,400
every day is a happy day, you
know, or.

131
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,280
Whatever exactly I.
I don't know the technical term

132
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,600
or whatever, but my mom's
version of dementia or

133
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,200
Alzheimer's or whatever it is, I
don't even think they know the

134
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,600
difference.
But she's happy.

135
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,960
Like generally she's happy.
She's not beating up nurses.

136
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,600
She's not like doing all the
angry things that I've heard of

137
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,840
so many friends of mine parents
have gone through and she's had

138
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,400
it for quite some time.
And yes, it, it progresses.

139
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:11,040
So every time it gets a little
harder for her to to recognize

140
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,840
you or to have a conversation or
whatever.

141
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,440
But but she's happy.
Like, you know, I've, I started

142
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,320
this thing a few years ago where
every time I go visit her, I

143
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,000
bring a muffin and I sing happy
birthday to her and, and she's

144
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,360
so happy because it's her
birthday again, you know, and at

145
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,080
first the home kind of gave me
shit for it.

146
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,120
Like they, they said I was being
deceptive and, and that kind of

147
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,680
thing.
And I said hey look shut up.

148
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,280
You know, she likes it, she has
fun.

149
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,040
And I could sing it again 5
minutes later and she'd go, oh

150
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,840
it's my birthday you know?
Like she doesn't know so why not

151
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,600
make her happy for a few
minutes, you know?

152
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,560
Exactly.
I think it's a good thing that

153
00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:52,280
you do.
And when you consider that, you

154
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,280
know, people spend an entire
lifetime paying attention,

155
00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,960
stressing out, you know, having
to, you know, just be on the

156
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,400
ball all the time, and then you
have a few years where you can

157
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,680
just sort of relax and let the
clouds pass you by and.

158
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,320
Maybe it's a little Restful,
You're right.

159
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,600
Yeah, I like to think of it that
way, by the way.

160
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,200
I, I like to think of that she's
not haunted by, by her mind, but

161
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,160
but that she's at peace, you
know, that she's, she's like,

162
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,040
whoa, look at the birds and
she's in the bathroom or

163
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:25,600
something, you know, like
there's no birds.

164
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,600
There's got to be some sort of
upside.

165
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,560
And some people get angry in the
heart state and then then

166
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:34,680
they're, you know, slaves to
that as well.

167
00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:37,000
So yeah, yeah.
Who knows?

168
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,400
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you just to stay

169
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,640
on the health topic for a
minute.

170
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,680
So I'm, I'm a big advocate.
Like there's a doctor that I've

171
00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:48,800
followed for years, probably
since I turned 50, but his name

172
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,360
is Mark Mark Hyman.
Doctor Mark Hyman.

173
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,560
I don't know if you've ever
heard of him, but he's a he, he

174
00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,560
is an expert in functional
medicine, which the shortest

175
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,040
version would be basically food
as medicine.

176
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,120
You know, instead of eating to,
to have fun, you eat to sustain

177
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,840
yourself.
And, and that food all has a

178
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,440
function.
Everything that you eat has a

179
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,760
function.
And but the, the general idea is

180
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,760
that you want to stay healthy
until your last days.

181
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,200
So, you know, if, if you know,
somebody could come down a

182
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,360
messenger and say, Jeff, you're
going to live to 97 1/2 years

183
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:36,120
old basically at 97 and, and you
know, just before 1/2 you, you

184
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,160
get a little bit sick and you
die, right.

185
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,640
As opposed to the last two or
three years or 10 years of your

186
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,520
life having dementia or heart,
heart disease or cancer or one

187
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,720
of the those things.
That's the ideal scenario.

188
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:56,160
Well, anyways, his company
Function Health created a test

189
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,080
and I've had a few people in our
industry do it.

190
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:04,720
It's, it's 500 bucks and you get
2 sets of, of tests and, and

191
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,520
it's blood and urine and, and
they basically test 110 things

192
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,920
or something as opposed to your
usual blood test is 10 or 15

193
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,960
things if you're lucky.
And so it's very, very thorough.

194
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,720
And from that you get back all
these results that tell you, you

195
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,960
know, your risk for Alzheimer's,
your risk for 1000 different

196
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,760
things.
And lo and behold, after all the

197
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,000
damage that I've done to myself
in the, in the first half of my

198
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,080
life, I'm actually in very good
shape and I'm, I'm of very good

199
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,880
health.
And some will hate to hear it

200
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,840
that it looks like I could last
a lot longer.

201
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,440
And one of the things they give
you is your biological age.

202
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,040
And mine is 12 years under my
real age.

203
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,000
So I turned 60 last year and,
and it says I'm 48.

204
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,480
So I like that.
So.

205
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,080
My goal is to become 40, you
know, and can you go?

206
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,080
Backwards.
You can actually, you can

207
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,520
reverse aging.
And so that's what a lot of this

208
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,760
longevity science is all about.
It's it's not just about slowing

209
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,200
aging, but reversing it and.
What emotional age you're

210
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,760
talking about?
No, no.

211
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,080
This is physical age.
This is biological age.

212
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,400
This is like how you're how
you're.

213
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:19,840
Yeah.
Emotional age.

214
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,440
I think I'm already 12.
I don't think I've ever gotten

215
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,160
past that, to be perfectly
honest.

216
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,960
Yeah, but yeah, anyways, it's
it's just something that I'm

217
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,120
pretty passionate about.
So it's funny because my

218
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,760
girlfriend and I bought each
other this set of tests for

219
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,840
Christmas, really fun Christmas
presents.

220
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,600
And so she's just doing hers now
and she's very stressed that

221
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,920
she's going to end up older than
me in biological age.

222
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,800
And and so, you know, we got a
bit of a competition going on,

223
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,840
so I think she'll get her
results in a few days.

224
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,800
She just did the final Test
today, so.

225
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,120
It sounds amazing, but I hope
it's not just functional.

226
00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,160
I hope it's fun eating too.
Well, I think it is, but it

227
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,200
takes some time.
You know, like one of the

228
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,080
examples he uses is when you can
walk up to a Starbucks counter

229
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,840
and you're getting your coffee
and you look at that food behind

230
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,760
the counter and you don't see it
as food anymore.

231
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,320
Now, you know, you've pretty
much passed the test, you've

232
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,000
gotten through it.
You know, like Froot Loops

233
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,800
aren't food.
You know, all that stuff isn't

234
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,680
food and, and where you crave
broccoli as opposed to craving a

235
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,840
bowl of Froot Loops.
You know, that's when you've

236
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,600
sort of crossed the chasm and
and gotten into a place where

237
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,920
you're eating well and it's
really it's just down to Whole

238
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,440
Foods.
You know, like you eat a steak,

239
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,000
try and make it a grass fed.
And I don't know if you're vegan

240
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,400
or something, I'm sorry if, if
you are, but you know, if you

241
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,400
eat a steak, it make it grass
fed, that's going to be the best

242
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:55,000
of the best and, and, and eat
eggs and, and eat, you know,

243
00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:01,520
sort of like 1 ingredient foods,
you know, So anyways, right,

244
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,040
It's.
Fun.

245
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,040
And it's the preservatives and
the processing that you know,

246
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,040
that really gets you so.
That's the worst.

247
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,400
And seed oils, right?
And seed oils.

248
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,880
But maybe when you hit that 97
and a quarter, maybe you can

249
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,560
say, give me a big bowl of Froot
Loops.

250
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,720
I just want you to say fuck it.
Fuck it, I'm going to start

251
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,040
doing cocaine and smoking
cigarettes and eating Froot

252
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,360
Loops.
Yeah, it's like that's what I

253
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,840
want to do at the end of my
life. 80 years without a froot

254
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,320
loop I'm making.
It up right now yeah that's

255
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,200
funny that's funny yeah.
I.

256
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,600
You know what I mean?
When I was a kid, I ate Froot

257
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,280
Loops, and come to find out,
because I was in Canada at the

258
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,800
time, like there's this, I
forget what the food dye is

259
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,680
called #5 orange or red or
something.

260
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,280
But it's the really nasty one.
And we use it here in the United

261
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,160
States in Fruit Loops, but they
don't use it in Canada or in

262
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,960
Europe in Fruit Loops.
So the Fruit Loops, as healthy

263
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,000
as they could be, are healthier
in Canada and Europe than they

264
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,480
are in the United States, which
is kind of nutty.

265
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,440
Wow, I'll keep that in mind.
Yeah, the health.

266
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:06,800
Diet.
So I'm with you.

267
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,240
I'll keep that in mind, he says.
OK, great.

268
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,440
Are these kind of friends that
you're giving me here?

269
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,600
Yeah, I'm a big label.
Reader.

270
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,120
Yeah.
Are you really?

271
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,520
I am.
I am.

272
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,760
Yeah, good for you.
It's all it's all about those

273
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,120
preservatives and and and
processed things can't

274
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,200
pronounce.
Yeah, totally true.

275
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,280
Totally.
I mean, does that sound

276
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,120
appetizing?
Dexa blah, blah, blah, blah,

277
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,240
like words that are this long.
Does that sound good for you?

278
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,920
No.
OK, then maybe you shouldn't eat

279
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,400
it.
I mean, you can't taste it, so,

280
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,320
and maybe it makes it taste
better, at least when you're

281
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,120
used to it.
You know when you withdraw from

282
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,840
it and you get used to not
having it, then yeah, then then

283
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,080
you do notice that stuff.
Totally true.

284
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,520
Well, and the other thing is
like we went to a, we found

285
00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,840
we've been living in the same
place for like 5 years and just

286
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,880
figured out that right up the
road from us, there's a farmers

287
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,599
market that are literally the
farmers from this area.

288
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,200
I'm in Wellington where we've
got lots of horse farms because

289
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,720
it's, it's a horse place here
and but all the farmers around

290
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,680
there bring their their stuff
and they sell it at this, this

291
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,040
farmers, it's a proper farmers
market, right?

292
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:27,720
And we bought bread there and
it, it's like, you know, really

293
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,760
nice, really good, healthy, you
know, it's not like the

294
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,360
modified, you know, whatever and
enriched flour and all that

295
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,360
stuff.
It's, it's proper stuff.

296
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,400
And so we bought that and it was
absolutely amazing sourdough

297
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,280
bread, absolutely amazing.
And like, on the second or third

298
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:51,640
day, it was already moldy and we
were like, right, I forgot.

299
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,240
Like, real stuff actually goes
bad after a short period of

300
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,200
time.
Right.

301
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:56,920
Right.
Yeah.

302
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,160
They buy bread every day in
France, correct?

303
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,880
Yeah.
Well, and that's actually one of

304
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,520
the interesting things that I
talk with people about a lot is

305
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,960
I happen to be a pasta and pizza
freak.

306
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,880
Like, I could eat either one of
those every single day, except

307
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,520
physically my body says hell no.
Yeah.

308
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,360
And, but have you ever noticed,
like when you're in Italy, you

309
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:26,000
can eat bread and, and pizza and
pasta all day and you, you don't

310
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,800
get that stuffed, bloated, full
feeling that, that you feel like

311
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,760
hell here.
If you have, if you have pizza

312
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,520
for lunch and pasta for dinner
here in the United States,

313
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,760
you're just dying like me
anyways.

314
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,760
Right.
Who knows what they put into it?

315
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,200
Yeah, well, and that stuff.
Wouldn't last three?

316
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:48,920
Days you know yeah and you know
a big part of of what it is is

317
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,680
they use proper like ancient
grain pasta and and flour is not

318
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,920
enriched flour.
It doesn't have all the crap

319
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,200
added to it.
And so it's, it's, it's an

320
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,720
interesting thing like
unfortunately, as you can hear,

321
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,160
it's a rabbit hole that's pretty
easy to go down when you start

322
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,360
and you start reading some of
these books and stuff.

323
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:14,480
Next thing you know your your
bio hacking your your health,

324
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,360
you know and.
It's everything.

325
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,560
And you know, if you if you do
think about it and if you

326
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:26,400
believe that what you are, what
you eat, it's important.

327
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's totally
true.

328
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:35,200
So I saw you at LDI.
You were part of our dinosaurs

329
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,920
thing, which I think you're far
too young to be a dinosaur,

330
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:38,320
Jeff.
Yeah.

331
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,440
Thank you.
Yeah, and we appreciate you

332
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,280
doing that.
Soon we're gonna actually put

333
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,160
together a call to talk to
people about doing it again next

334
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,240
year, Obviously much larger,
very different.

335
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,400
We're going to have a panel.
We're going to, we're going to

336
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,520
make it like somebody said
something about the fact that it

337
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,000
would be much more fun if we
could like riff with each other

338
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,240
and, and bust each other's balls
and, and have a good time.

339
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,280
And you can only really do that
on a panel.

340
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,720
It's hard to do when you you're
at different tables and stuff

341
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,160
so.
All noted.

342
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,680
And what we've heard sort of
loud, loud and clear is people

343
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,160
want, and you know this because
you do it all the time, but

344
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,600
people want more access to
people like you and to be able

345
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,200
to share, take some of your
knowledge away and apply it to

346
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,480
whatever they're doing.
And so it's, it's, it's fun to

347
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,920
have another way of, of doing
that, you know?

348
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,800
You know, maybe, and I know we
talked about wanting more young

349
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,360
people, students and people that
are just launching their careers

350
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,200
in there because that's really
what they want to sort of tug at

351
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,280
our pants legs and ask us about.
You know, that's what we've

352
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,600
done.
If nothing else, we've been

353
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,320
through it and we might have a
thought or two about that for

354
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,760
those people.
But who knows, maybe since

355
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,520
there's that lunch involved,
maybe we spend the first half

356
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:09,040
hour having that one-on-one, say
having lunch at tables being

357
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,800
spread out and then it's Ding,
Ding, Ding.

358
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,600
OK, everyone up, you know the
the panelists up onto the stage

359
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,880
and get into it as you're
discussing it.

360
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,640
Might actually be the opposite
of that.

361
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,040
Or or the opposite.
Might be the opposite because

362
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,960
then, by the way, students who
are sitting there watching the

363
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,800
panel would get a feel for yeah,
this rabbits character is the

364
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,160
one I want to go to his table.
So, you know, in a sense you're

365
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,320
marketing yourself while you're
on the panel.

366
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,200
And, and then, but you know,
I'll tell you, one of the

367
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,880
challenges is that we are
dealing with this corporate

368
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,080
thing, the company that owns LDI
and, and of course everything

369
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,280
they touch has to somehow be
profitable, where none of us is

370
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,880
doing it for money.
We're all doing it to share

371
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,200
information.
So yeah, I mean, I got to get

372
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,000
past that machine and and make
sure that that everything works

373
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,800
out for them as well.
But the idea is to get a lot

374
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,240
more students in there.
Some of that'll be done through

375
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,120
corporate sponsorships, some of
it will be done through maybe

376
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:12,960
just LDI saying you can invite,
you know, the 1st 100 people.

377
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,240
And then after that, it's got a,
you know, it's paid at these

378
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,280
different tiers or whatever.
And then, you know, you just

379
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,480
like, you could do the same
thing that Parnelli's do where

380
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,800
you get companies to buy tables
and and then you invite people

381
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,920
to fill those seats.
So we'll see.

382
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,680
We'll come up with a way.
But again, I appreciate you

383
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,160
being a part of it.
It was fun to do.

384
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,200
Yeah.
Yeah, I appreciate it being part

385
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,160
of it.
It was a lot of fun.

386
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,960
Yeah, you're, you're always very
you're always very giving with

387
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,440
your time.
And and, you know, in all the

388
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,400
notes that you sent me for this
podcast scattered throughout or

389
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,400
you know, Jeff speaking at this,
teaching at this, you know,

390
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,840
sharing information at this.
And I love when people not just

391
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,200
blowing smoke up your your
skirt, but I love when people in

392
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,200
our industry are willing and
able to, to do those things

393
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,960
because it's super important,
super important.

394
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,800
You know, casting it forward is
truly what it's all about,

395
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,840
especially in an industry like
ours.

396
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,560
It's kind of a a very
specialized industry.

397
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,600
It's hard to get real
information.

398
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,680
We can learn a lot in school,
but you learn so much more when

399
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,640
you're out in the world of
experience.

400
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,400
And how else does somebody
that's just getting into the

401
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,480
business know that?
And I like cutting the corners

402
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,320
for people.
I like, you know, the idea that

403
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,760
maybe it's not going to take
five years or 10 years to

404
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,280
acquire a certain amount of of
knowledge and understanding of

405
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,320
what it takes to work your way
through the industry, both from

406
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,320
a career standpoint as well as
like whatever your art or craft

407
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,480
might might be.
And if I figure if we, as the

408
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:55,560
more experienced people, can
help somebody get from point A

409
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,480
to point B that much faster,
than our entire industry grows

410
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,600
faster.
I agree.

411
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,120
Yeah.
Well, and also like, would you

412
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,800
agree that there's sort of a
disconnect between the old

413
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,360
school and the new school ways
of doing things?

414
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:14,160
And I think some of that needs
to disappear and stay old school

415
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,800
and some of it needs to be
pulled forward into the into the

416
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,600
new school way of doing things.
And so that's where I see a lot

417
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,640
of, you know, just some of the
call it real fundamentals, like

418
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:33,120
showing up on time, like, you
know, just whatever tools you

419
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,520
should always have with you and
just a lot of the anecdotes and,

420
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,320
and things that come from people
who have done it for a very long

421
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,920
time.
I love when that information

422
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,000
gets shared.
Like, you know, Jake Berry is

423
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,480
really good at at telling people
and don't forget to do this, you

424
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,720
know, and always do this.
And, and sometimes it sounds

425
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,040
maybe a little bitchy or
whatever, but it's true.

426
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,840
Like these are really good
values, you know?

427
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,680
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah.

428
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,520
I think that if we take, you
know, the old school and the new

429
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,280
school put them into a blender,
I think that's, you know,

430
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,160
probably where where we want to
go.

431
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,480
But I mean, people of my
generation and Jake's

432
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,560
generation, we didn't have that
many people really to look up

433
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,000
to.
We were starting in the business

434
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,240
at a time when, you know,
production as we know it today

435
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,600
was really just ramping up,
yeah, going from nothing to

436
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,400
something.
And so now here we are as people

437
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,640
that can you know, kind of give
give a couple of notes to the to

438
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,040
the new people that are just.
Coming.

439
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,640
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, let's face it,

440
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,080
like back then, one of the
things is probably, I don't know

441
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,000
if it was the same for you, but
if if you look at the earliest

442
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,760
days of technology, it didn't
exist.

443
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,920
So a lot of times if you needed
something, you actually

444
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,320
literally went to a machine shop
across the street and said, hey,

445
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,040
can you build me one of these
things?

446
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Because I need this arm.
To like hold a light over this,

447
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,880
you know, set piece or whatever.
And you know, now it's all just

448
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,760
there like the the toolbox is
full at this point, right?

449
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,640
Right, right, right.
No, I mean, I think of really,

450
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,520
you know, The Pioneers of the
equipment in our industry, you

451
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,320
know, people like Chipmunk that
were just resourceful and said

452
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,280
maybe if we just take an idea
from a car headlamp and turn it

453
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,240
into a stage light and how can
we do it?

454
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,640
And somebody like Bob C, you
know, helping to create, you

455
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,440
know, the the can.
And yeah, that's the exciting

456
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,960
part.
It's almost like, you know,

457
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:39,880
creating mayonnaise, you know,
these completely life changing,

458
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,320
you know, industry changing
things that are so small yet so

459
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,680
huge.
All of it, like all of the the

460
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,640
multi pin cable and the like
audio.

461
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Some of the stuff in audio is
even more radical because it

462
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,840
needs to be louder.
OK, let me go think about this.

463
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,160
And they'd go back into their
garage, you know, nail a bunch

464
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,880
of things together, put a big
fat speaker in it.

465
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,400
Maybe if I bend this piece of
wood over here, I think that's

466
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,160
going to make it push out this
way louder or whatever.

467
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:14,360
And, you know, JBL and a lot of
the big companies were created

468
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,520
like that in somebody's garage.
And they just needed a a bigger

469
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,280
speaker to be able to project
the sound a little bit further,

470
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,280
you know, as the venues got
bigger and you know, like, you

471
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,000
think about the stuff they used
for the The Beatles at at Shea

472
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,040
Stadium or whatever, like it's
unbelievable.

473
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,080
You know, it's, it's
unbelievable.

474
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,600
Like right now you.
Wouldn't use those little

475
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,240
speakers on the ground.
Pretty much the size of a wedge.

476
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,160
Monitor now.
Well, and the lighting, you

477
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,440
know, I mean, you wouldn't use
that today in a nightclub or, or

478
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,360
in a, you know, somebody's
basement for a party, you know?

479
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,080
Well, you know, I've been
working for Ringo for over 30

480
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,880
years and my first meeting with
him, he just said kind of take

481
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,320
it easy on me because the last
time I did this, there were just

482
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,560
three follow spots.
So, you know, it's hilarious.

483
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,560
And it's very easy to burn my
head if you're not careful.

484
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,760
That's hilarious.
That's hilarious.

485
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,680
You're still working with him
today, right?

486
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,640
I am, I am.
I'm very lucky he's.

487
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,800
He's amazing.
I mean the fact that he, what is

488
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,200
he now, 80 3/4?
Two, I think 83.

489
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,840
Yeah, and you know, touring
isn't easy.

490
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,040
I even if you're staying in Four
Seasons hotels, it's still not

491
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,080
easy.
You know, that's right.

492
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,720
There's a lot to it.
And so for him to still be out

493
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,320
there and still doing it and
still pulling those huge groups

494
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,920
of talented musicians together
to do those shows who reveal.

495
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,440
It.
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing.

496
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,120
It's so amazing.
And Paul, I mean Paul equally,

497
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,040
you know, very different, but
equally like just so impressive

498
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,440
that, you know, and Mick and all
of the guys that are in their

499
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,200
80s and, and, you know, let's
face it, the 70s weren't easy on

500
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,760
people, you know?
That's right, if they made it

501
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,360
through till now.
Correct.

502
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,040
Yeah.
Like, you know, acid was sort of

503
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,960
mainstream back then.
It was like, everybody does

504
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,840
this, you know, breakfast
exactly.

505
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,720
You know, instead of Froot
Loops, we take acid and, and lo

506
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,080
and behold, it was probably
better for you than Froot Loops.

507
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,920
You know, probably you're still
alive.

508
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,400
So.
Anyway.

509
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,880
I'm not advocating for taking
acid children, please, as you're

510
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,200
listening to this, do not listen
to anything I'm saying.

511
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,560
I'm a shit talking idiot from
Canada.

512
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,320
But but yeah, it's so you know,
when I say the disconnect from

513
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,600
from sort of old school to new
school, it's, it's not

514
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,640
necessarily even equipment
related because obviously you

515
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,840
have many different choices
today for equipment that's all

516
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,640
so damn good, regardless of who
your favorite manufacturer is.

517
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,200
And I know for many, many years
you were so loyal to Morpheus.

518
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,800
And I actually want to get into
that when we get into your,

519
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,280
your, your history a bit.
And you know, let's face it,

520
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,520
like if you could compare
anyone's technology today to

521
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720
some of the early Morpheus
fixtures, at the time they were,

522
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,960
they were leading edge, but not
so much now.

523
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,640
And so the fact that you were
creating shows with with that

524
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,320
technology versus today's
technology, very different sort

525
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,800
of mindset and skill set and all
of that stuff.

526
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,000
Yes, yes.
I mean, the only thing I'll say

527
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,880
about that old technology is
that the leap it took from its

528
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:34,040
predecessor, which was the Leco
in the PAR, yeah, was a much

529
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,680
bigger leap than I think we're
making now, smaller incremental

530
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,080
leaps.
Not that I discount any of the

531
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,480
the great advances that we're
lucky to, you know, have the

532
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,720
advantage of today, but I think
in those days they were really

533
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,480
going from zero to 60 in two
seconds.

534
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,040
Yeah, yeah.
No, I mean massive.

535
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,360
You know, two decades, massive
leaps, but even like things like

536
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,920
the, the color fader and the,
you know, just all of those

537
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,880
technologies, like it's almost
fun being old because you, you

538
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,240
remember when each of those
things happened and how

539
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,360
incredible it was and how it
changed shows and how it changed

540
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,800
your, your ability.
Probably, you know, as a

541
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,480
designer, I would guess like
just wow, now I can do so much

542
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,320
more.
Well, clearly less fixtures.

543
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,640
That's right.
Yeah, absolutely.

544
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Nobody's using less fixtures.
That's.

545
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,960
The thing that's that's the dumb
thing, isn't it?

546
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:30,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

547
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,560
Like we used to have to have a,
you know, 1000 Park Hands just

548
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,440
to be bright enough in each of
the four or five major colors.

549
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,840
That's right.
And, and now we have 1000 moving

550
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,320
lights.
Each one of them can do every

551
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,840
color you could possibly want,
but we still have 1000 moving

552
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,200
lights on shows for some reason.
Yeah.

553
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,680
You know, bigger is better, more
is more.

554
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,880
And I guess I subscribe to that
theory too.

555
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,000
And as we work in really big
venues, you like really filling

556
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,120
the space and, you know,
thinking about things visually

557
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,160
in different ways than we did
way back then where, you know,

558
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,040
you'd be in a big arena.
But really all that was lit was

559
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,480
that little postage stamp of a
stage, right?

560
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,160
Yeah.
You know, And now we're lighting

561
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,720
the entire arena and putting
lights in every nook and cranny

562
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,760
to just really make the
experience a 360 degree, you

563
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,600
know, visual treat.
Well, and plus you're doing

564
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,800
television with so many of the
shows that you're a part of as

565
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,480
well.
So you do have to, you know, you

566
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,880
do need that audience lighting
and stuff, I guess.

567
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,040
But when when you're pushing to
1000 moving lights, are you

568
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,440
suggesting that that's the
designer and not the artist

569
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,320
who's who's wanting bigger and
more and.

570
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,080
I guess it's a combination.
I certainly know I, I, I

571
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:53,120
realized that it seems like
there's a lot of just fru fru

572
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,760
put in.
You know that when when you

573
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,720
think that you can really light
the band with 20 lights, what's

574
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,480
all the rest of that stuff
doing?

575
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,560
That's true.
And but it is, you know,

576
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:11,000
creating that extravaganza feel
and and also visually filling

577
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,080
things in, certainly for
television.

578
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,800
When you think about a multi
camera shoot and there's a

579
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,280
camera looking at every
imaginable point of view to the

580
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,360
stage, you know, some of it's
almost it's behind the stage,

581
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,480
some of it's from the
performer's point of view

582
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,680
looking, looking out at the
crowd.

583
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,000
You want a background of some
sort everywhere so that it's an

584
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,280
immersive experience.
You know, everybody in the room

585
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,760
becomes part of the show.
That might not be the same same

586
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,720
concept for an opera, but it
certainly is for, you know, for

587
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,440
a big rock show where it just
becomes, you know, big

588
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,720
celebration.
So that's a little bit more

589
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,880
justification.
Do the, do the acts ask for

590
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,880
that?
I'm, you know, some people will

591
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,840
give you the mandate that I want
it to look really huge.

592
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Some, in some cases they want it
to be subtle and simple and you

593
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,159
have to find ways to make it
look big without so many

594
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,400
fixtures.
But you know, I, I think it's

595
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,480
more the designers than it is
the bands.

596
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,080
Really, I, I guess I always just
assumed it was the artist ego.

597
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,719
You know, like Beyoncé saying,
you know, you better make my

598
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,280
lighting package look better
than that nasty little Taylor

599
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,400
Swift, you know, and I was
probably the worst Beyoncé

600
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,040
impression ever, But you know
what I mean?

601
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:40,120
Like, I always just assumed it
was the artist, the artist ego

602
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,120
just saying that there's was
this big.

603
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,080
I want this big.
Well, I'll tell you, I'm, I'm

604
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,560
down to just a few touring acts
at this point, my career.

605
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,159
And that's not the mandate they
gave.

606
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,080
They give me, I, they pretty
much let me do what I need to do

607
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:01,120
and I'll show them what I have
in mind periodically in the

608
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:06,840
design development phase.
But I don't, I haven't really.

609
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,680
Certainly somebody like Bruce
Springsteen doesn't say I, I

610
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,760
want it to be bigger than
anything the world has ever seen

611
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,040
or bigger than the stones.
That's not his MO at all.

612
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,560
But I think he knows that we're
going to come through with a

613
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,680
show that's, you know, equal in
magnitude to the performance.

614
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,000
That he's getting He doesn't
want to look small.

615
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Right, right.
Yeah, I completely thinks.

616
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,640
About it until he sees it.
That's one thing about that

617
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,680
particular artist.
He has to to know what he likes.

618
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,800
Does does Bruce get involved in
that process?

619
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,000
Like does he, does he sit with
you and say, what if we could do

620
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,680
this instead?
Or what about this?

621
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,280
Or does he?
Is he?

622
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,840
Over the years, and it's been
over 40 years for me now.

623
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,160
Yeah, that's wild.
By the way, congratulations.

624
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,720
Like what a what an unbelievable
ride, you know?

625
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,520
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm very, very
fortunate.

626
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,720
And you know when you work for
somebody that long, you kind of

627
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,360
get into their head and know
what they like.

628
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,760
So I would say in the last
several years there's been less

629
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,560
pre production exchange of ideas
with us.

630
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,440
He just trusts you.
But he's also done some crazy

631
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,000
smaller projects over the years.
The Seeger session show, that

632
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,560
was a real departure for him,
anything he had done.

633
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,640
And the, and the few times that
he's done solo acoustic shows,

634
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,920
that's where I've really gotten
into, you know, one-on-one early

635
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,880
discussions.
But that's it's been many years

636
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,840
since we've done anything like
that.

637
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,560
And, you know, there were ideas
that he would toss out, things

638
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,040
he would ask for.
We would do those things and

639
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,680
then he wouldn't like them.
You know, artists have to

640
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,720
develop their own vocabulary
too, to speak to the designer.

641
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,920
And sometimes they ask for
something and it's totally

642
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:02,400
misinterpreted.
And so it's a, it's a dance to

643
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,200
get that done.
But no, I'd say in the last, you

644
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,240
know, 1520 years he and I have
had very, very few pre

645
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,520
production exchanges other than
him seeing drawings.

646
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,280
That.
That management presents to him.

647
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,960
Well, that that's because it's
you, you know, like, I I mean,

648
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,520
if it were some young unknown
designer or something, he'd

649
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,600
probably be a heck of a lot more
involved.

650
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,800
But he trusts you, you know,
obviously you've earned trust

651
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,200
over that many years.
Yeah.

652
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,080
So is there any sign of him
stopping?

653
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,520
I mean, obviously he's going to
have to at some point.

654
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,600
We all do.
I guess you know, he was.

655
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:49,240
He was interviewed last year and
they did a documentary about the

656
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,680
the assembly of the most recent
tour.

657
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,440
Yeah, it's still in progress,
even though they're off for a

658
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,560
couple of months.
And they said, so Bruce, you

659
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,160
know, when, when do you think
you're going to hang it up?

660
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,920
And he said I'm not stopping
until the wheels come off.

661
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,320
Well, that's not happened.
Now he's got a lot of options

662
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,920
whether he could continue to do
E Street Band tours where, you

663
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,680
know, it's conducive to being on
a stadium stage where he is

664
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,360
jumping off the stage and
running on the ego ramp all the

665
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,760
way to one side of the stadium
and all the way to the other and

666
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,960
out on.
You know, I don't know how long

667
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,520
he'll be able to do that.
He's still doing it, but I know

668
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,560
and but at the end of this tour,
which more or less, you know,

669
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:44,360
may end at the end of 2025 with
scattered dates, I don't think

670
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,640
they're going to be hitting the
road as solidly as they did the

671
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,800
last couple of years.
But they've got some make up

672
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,720
shows to do and they've filled
in and they may just get

673
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:54,480
inspired to do do a little bit
more.

674
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,680
Who knows?
I'd feel he's going to keep

675
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,720
going at this pace and then he
can do solo acoustic.

676
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:07,440
He can do that way.
He can put together like an R&B

677
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,720
band because he's gotten into
R&B in a big way in the last few

678
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,000
years.
Interesting.

679
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,320
So he can do things that are
less physically demanding, you

680
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,000
know, maybe even less vocally
demanding because, you know, an

681
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,760
E Street Band show.
He does a lot of, you know,

682
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,240
singing and screaming at the top
of his lungs.

683
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,800
And that's part of the appeal
and part of his of his, you

684
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,040
know, personality.
But you know, you do something

685
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,160
like a solo acoustic, he's
barely even on the mic.

686
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,200
You know, he he shows some
subtlety when he does that.

687
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,600
And I think that would be
something that would appeal to

688
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,480
him.
So anyway, long long answer.

689
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,240
But the rest, the rest of the
street band, they hold up pretty

690
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,680
well, like Van Zandt and and
like are the rest of them.

691
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:56,080
They're they're doing OK too,
because they're all getting up

692
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,960
there too.
Absolutely, yeah.

693
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:03,320
We're all aging.
I had a discussion with Max

694
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,680
Weinberg, the drummer.
Last year and we're just kind of

695
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,280
talking about, you know, our
lives and we kind of got back

696
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,360
together after not seeing each
other for for a couple of years.

697
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,520
And, you know, he's saying,
yeah, that, you know, with

698
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,280
drumming is, you know, perhaps
the most physically demanding

699
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,200
job in the band.
And he said, well, I've learned

700
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,400
how to, you know, play harder
without working harder, you

701
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,880
know, and a guy like that, he's
spent so many years, you know,

702
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,760
at the kit.
He knows how he can get the

703
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,400
sound he wants without, you
know, at working every muscle in

704
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,280
his body to, you know, 100%,
right, Right.

705
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,640
That's kind of what it's all
about.

706
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,480
I mean, you can, you know,
tennis preservation, how to do

707
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,800
that.
Everyone you know figures that

708
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:49,720
out at some.
Point.

709
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,600
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the young ones are always

710
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,880
preservation.
Like.

711
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,480
Man, you know you don't have to
put, you know 300% of yourself

712
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,720
into it if you know what you're
doing.

713
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,680
Well, it's similar to athletes
like, I don't know if you're a

714
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,000
tennis fan, but everyone always
said Nadal was going to, you

715
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,360
know, there's no way this guy's
going to even make it to his

716
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,720
30s.
But but he he changed his tennis

717
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:15,080
style as he got into his 20s and
especially into his late 20s and

718
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,000
early 30s.
And eventually he did have to

719
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,440
retire, but but you know, he was
a crazy like 17 year old, like

720
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,480
he, he got every ball that he
wasn't supposed to get and stuff

721
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,760
like that.
But I remember, you know,

722
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:32,120
McEnroe and others would always
say this guy ain't going to

723
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,040
last.
He needs to let some of those go

724
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,280
by him, you know, because he's
killing himself going after some

725
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:38,480
of these balls.
Yeah.

726
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,840
And similar thing, you know, you
got to start thinking longevity

727
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,440
and and sustenance, you know,
how can I keep this thing going

728
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:46,880
as long as possible?
Right.

729
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,200
You know, right.
I did see his last match on TV

730
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,400
and yeah, it was the same thing.
He was running after every ball,

731
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,080
going for it, you know, as hard
as he could.

732
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,480
And so.
Yeah, what about Djokovic?

733
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,560
Like Federer, who doesn't seem
to exert nearly, you know, the

734
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:06,520
energy.
No, he seems like he's putting

735
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,240
no effort into it.
Yeah.

736
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:11,800
Djokovic to me is, is a phenom.
Like this is a guy that could

737
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,760
possibly play till friggin 50
years old, you know?

738
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,280
Yeah, yeah.
He'll just, he'll find a way

739
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:23,120
because he's so in charge of of
his physical body and his his

740
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,000
strength and his fitness and all
of those things.

741
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:31,000
He's just got such a better, you
know, understanding of what he's

742
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,000
capable of than anybody else
does.

743
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,360
And you know, I hated when they
booed him when he exited the

744
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,440
Aussie Open because that's a guy
that's super authentic.

745
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,400
Like he's not leaving because
he's down on the scorecard or

746
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,440
something.
He's he's leaving because he

747
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,840
knows his body and he, he can't,
he can't keep going, you know,

748
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,560
so that's why he walked away
because I've seen him come back

749
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,880
way too many times from 2 sets
down.

750
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,920
He's not going to quit, you
know, he's, he's not that guy.

751
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,120
Yeah.
So exactly.

752
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,480
Exactly.
Yeah.

753
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,240
Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Who?

754
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,240
Who?
So you said three artists that

755
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:06,880
you're still working with.
Who are the other two?

756
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,360
Not Styx, right?
Not no, actually it's only two.

757
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:17,040
I'm not really involved with
Styx anymore, OK?

758
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:21,720
And and that was almost a 50
year relationship, yeah.

759
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,520
I know that was a long one too.
But it was just time for me to,

760
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,560
you know, Libby Gray, who's who
was our tour lighting director

761
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:35,520
for many years, had taken the
show to a really good place in

762
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,880
my absence there in other parts
of the world.

763
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,680
And with her improvising and
taking, you know, the bones of

764
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,240
what what had been created
before really turned it into

765
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,440
something of her own.
And so it was time for me to

766
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,400
step back and let her do that.
But I'm still involved with

767
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,360
Ringo and kind of in the same
way I designed the show.

768
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,960
I'm, you know, maybe a creative
consultant.

769
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,000
I do the plot and I you know,
but but there are some really

770
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,280
talented.
Yeah, you don't tour with it.

771
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:04,800
I don't.
I don't tour with it.

772
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,080
Yeah, You know, Greg Classen is
out now.

773
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,920
Susan Rose was with it for,
yeah, 20 years.

774
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,880
She did a great job.
And yeah, both of those lighting

775
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,720
directors really take it so much
further on a day-to-day basis

776
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:23,560
when they have to improvise, use
local equipment and that's, that

777
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,600
doesn't really match up to the
original plot.

778
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,280
So, but I am still involved, you
know, with Ringo and then and

779
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,360
then Bruce.
So I'm really not out there

780
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,680
looking for touring work at the
moment.

781
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,840
I'm, you know.
I mean, it's funny because

782
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,600
there's so many people that I
talked to.

783
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,640
Obviously my podcast is called
Geezers of Gear, but there's so

784
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,200
many people I talked to whose
artists are getting close to

785
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,560
aging out.
And I always ask those questions

786
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,800
like, OK, so you out looking for
25 year old artists, you know,

787
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,640
to replace them?
Or are you going to phase your

788
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,360
career into a different stage?
When, when, when those artists

789
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,600
phase out and you get a
different bunch of answers?

790
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:12,480
Obviously for everyone it's a
different, you know, life plan

791
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,840
or whatever you want to call it,
a strategy that says, you know,

792
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,400
I'm going to go spend more time
doing whatever, learning how to

793
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,920
water ski, you know, or whatever
it is.

794
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,400
I don't know but.
I was always interested in so

795
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,440
many different things.
And there was something about,

796
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,440
you know, being on the road and
touring that I felt, you know,

797
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,840
for me anyway, was sort of a
self limiting scenario.

798
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:42,320
And as I toured less and even
though I was, I was given the,

799
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,560
you know, the privilege of
designing these shows,

800
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,240
rehearsing them and then
exiting, you know, the, the

801
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:52,440
tour, that gave me the
opportunity to get into some

802
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,400
different things.
And I thought, well, maybe

803
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,160
something like architectural
lighting would give me the

804
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,000
opportunity to travel less and
use my brain in a different way.

805
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,240
And I did that for a, for a
number of years.

806
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:06,640
It wasn't really, you know,
something that I that that I

807
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,680
enjoyed all that much, but TV
had been something that had

808
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,360
always sort of ran an
undercurrent throughout my

809
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:20,600
career because it was there
early on when when I first began

810
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,720
is when MTV suddenly, you know,
arrived on the scene and

811
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,840
everybody had to have a music
video and teams of video.

812
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,320
People would come in and and and
shoot a live show or take the

813
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,480
band into a studio and do some
sort of like semi scripted

814
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,120
thing.
And I would sort of watch that

815
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,560
in with with great interest.
And I thought, you know, later

816
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,360
on, Fast forward many, many
years, I thought, well,

817
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,000
television is something that I
could probably grow older more

818
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:55,080
gracefully in because, you know,
it's a, it's a field where you

819
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,480
know, they, they value the
experience And you're, there are

820
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,920
a lot of, you know, older
people, you know, 50 plus people

821
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,360
in it, whereas the touring
industry, they are, you know,

822
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,000
recruiting from the cradle.
Yeah, it's a young man's game

823
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,000
right now on people's game.
I shouldn't say man, because

824
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,960
there's a lot of fortunately.
I mean, I think it's a really

825
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,520
great thing.
You know, I'm not, I'm not a big

826
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,120
DEI guy, but I love that more
women are coming into our

827
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,720
industry and and young girls and
stuff.

828
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,080
I think it's good for for them
and it's good for the industry.

829
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,120
It's a great career.
You know, yeah, I, I, I totally

830
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,920
agree.
And I, and I do think that it's

831
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,720
a younger person's game.
And when you've got younger acts

832
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:41,400
who are the ones that are
really, you know, charting

833
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:47,040
highest, they want, you know,
people that they can relate to.

834
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,800
Those artists want somebody
that's more or less in the in

835
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,680
their age group and somebody who
is attuned to all of that music,

836
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,680
liking that music better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

837
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,800
Although it's, it's funny
because I, I recently had Marty

838
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,280
Homme on the podcast again and,
and we were talking about that

839
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,280
and you know, he's, he's not
what I would call that new

840
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,360
generation young person or
anything.

841
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,600
But you know, he's got Olivia
Rod Rodrigo, he's got, he's got

842
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,920
a few young artists and that are
very hot.

843
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:29,120
And so I don't know, I think
well at the tour, he's not

844
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,040
designing for them.
He's the tour manager.

845
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:32,400
He's.
The tour manager you sort of

846
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,120
want, you know?
The experience?

847
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:39,080
Yeah, that's true too.
You know, so, but yeah, I mean,

848
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,800
I, I agree.
Now I have the advantage of

849
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,440
working at Coachella every year.
Yeah.

850
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,080
And that gives me an opportunity
to plug into a lot of artists

851
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,000
that I wouldn't be paying that
much attention to otherwise.

852
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,480
And so I get like, a full, you
know, master's degree in new

853
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,440
music every year.
Yeah.

854
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,240
So what is your what, what's
your basic, you know, in a

855
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,200
nutshell, responsibility with
Coachella?

856
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:14,440
Well, I'm, I'm there as the
broadcast lighting consultant,

857
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,400
OK, for whatever that's worth.
And how much I really accomplish

858
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,640
is anybody's guess.
Most of the headline acts come

859
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,400
in with what I'm supposed to do
is help all of these acts

860
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,360
understand that we are showing
this streaming around the world,

861
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,640
80 million plus hits every year
and growing annually.

862
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,680
And just to understand that it
it's important that those people

863
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,320
that can only see the show on
their computer screen or their

864
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:55,080
phone or whatever need something
to look at that is friendly to

865
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,320
the camera.
That doesn't mean blow it out,

866
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,640
make it look like the 11 O clock
news.

867
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,280
Now the headliners on the big
stages really understand that

868
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,360
before we even begin.
And the only thing I really have

869
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,440
to remind them of is levels.
We don't really care about weird

870
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,040
color and things like that.
We're not trying to necessarily

871
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,240
make everybody look that pretty,
you know, unless, unless they

872
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:20,600
want to be.
I would assume that if you're

873
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:24,040
Beyoncé's lighting designer or
Taylor Swift's or Lady Gaga's,

874
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,440
you're going to do your best to
make them look really good.

875
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,640
Anyway.
What they need to understand is

876
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:33,920
sometimes levels can get way
very uneven and I can help them

877
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,120
smooth those those sorts of
things out.

878
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,400
It's the smaller tent.
So, you know, Coachella has a

879
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,480
couple of big headline stages
and then they've got the smaller

880
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,760
tents where the new acts and the
indie acts and the acts that are

881
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,680
just almost ready to, to burst
onto the headline stage are

882
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,200
playing.
And a lot of those acts say my

883
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,400
artist wants no light on them.
And so when you look at a, a, a

884
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,800
smaller lighting system of maybe
100 lights, none of them are

885
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,640
aimed at the stage.
It's all out, you know, at the

886
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:08,200
crowd.
Yeah, that part looks good.

887
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,280
And I say, look, if you could
just devote 10 lights, that one,

888
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,760
that one, that one, that one
onto your artist.

889
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,440
And it doesn't have to be even
lighting, and it doesn't.

890
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,240
It just needs to be some level
of illumination.

891
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:23,080
To see the artist.
Yes, there are people that would

892
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,800
like to see your lead singer,
they'd like to see your

893
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,200
guitarist, etcetera, etcetera.
If I can do that, if I can take

894
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,760
it from zero to four.
Yeah.

895
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,200
On a on a zero to 10 scale, I
feel like I've accomplished.

896
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,440
A lot interesting.
Yeah.

897
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,280
You know, it's funny because I
can't remember which who it was.

898
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,080
Somebody on my podcast said it
to me one time where he said,

899
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,920
you know, I'm designing a show
for 20,000 people right here,

900
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,400
but like 2 million people that
are going to be viewing it on a

901
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,280
on a four or five inch screen.
And I'm very thoughtful about

902
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,560
that.
So he's, he's actually designing

903
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,920
it.
And as he's looking at the show,

904
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,360
he'll look at it on his on his
iPhone or whatever as well.

905
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,920
Because you know, by the time
the show ends, there's going to

906
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,840
be 10,000 of those videos that
are uploaded to YouTube or

907
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,800
whatever.
And so many people are going to

908
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,680
see it, so many more than those
in the audience.

909
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,960
And so why wouldn't we give it
some thought even at that level?

910
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,560
But then you talk about a
Coachella.

911
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,400
So I mean, I think it's really
wise that they have you there

912
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,400
that and my guess is that you're
just trying to get them to be at

913
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,400
least thinking about that.
If nothing else.

914
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,840
You know, like just think about
the fact that there's more

915
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,640
people seeing it on a phone than
are seeing it in front of that,

916
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,920
you know, B or C or D stage that
you're on right now.

917
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:49,320
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.

918
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,600
You know, the live audience is
perfectly OK with the big broad

919
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,960
picture and with the ambience in
the room, they can probably see

920
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,720
what's going on on stage anyway.
There's a lot of video, there's

921
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:03,080
just a lot of bounce light.
But that doesn't work for the

922
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:04,880
cameras.
So it is those people that are

923
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,440
just watching on their phone.
And so it's gratifying if I can

924
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,360
bring it up a couple of notches.
I hate to make it seem like my

925
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,720
bar is set so low that if I take
it from zero to four, that's

926
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:17,760
sufficient.
But believe me, that's a good

927
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,760
day.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's really

928
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,880
complicated, you know, because
again, everybody has, you know,

929
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,080
their set of goals.
And then I think the when you

930
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,520
have a lighting designer for
some small up and coming act or

931
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,320
whatever, and then you have this
other lighting designer who's

932
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,840
coming in and saying, hey, we
want to make sure that, you

933
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,280
know, his, his back's going to
go up a little bit.

934
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:40,880
Right.
Like you can't come in here and

935
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,600
tell me what to do.
I know.

936
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,880
Sent on my work many plans.
Yeah, well, you're not the most

937
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,320
physically, you know,
frightening food either.

938
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,040
So.
So if you're coming out to my

939
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,280
front of house location and
telling me what to do, you know,

940
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,600
I'm not sure that you're going
to scare me much.

941
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,760
Just like, who's talking?
Oh.

942
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,040
There he is, that guy.
That's funny.

943
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,920
So are you serious?
And in saying that, the

944
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,880
television thing was just kind
of like a almost accidents like

945
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,880
where you just went well, you
know, this MTV thing is getting

946
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,640
kind of popular.
Like, these people are going to

947
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,280
need somebody who knows how to
like these things, and maybe I

948
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,800
should do that.
It was a little bit of that.

949
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,800
I mean, I was intrigued by it as
well.

950
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,080
For one thing, I was intrigued
by the fact that it wasn't as

951
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,640
easy as it looked.
I thought that, you know, what

952
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,440
they would do would be bring in
some big 10 KS and just flood

953
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:36,880
the stage and that would be
that.

954
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,600
And that's not what they did at
all.

955
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,640
They came in and they made it,
you know, by and large they made

956
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,160
it look, you know, fairly
interesting and did change a lot

957
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,840
of my levels.
And I thought, wait a minute, if

958
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,000
there's more to this than than I
realized.

959
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,760
And then I kind of the light
bulb went off and I realized

960
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:01,240
it's so much about the close up
because 90% of the shots are

961
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:03,920
more or less some kind of a
close up or A2 shot.

962
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,600
And, and it's not easy to make
those, those shots look good and

963
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,400
make people look, you know,
decent.

964
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,880
And, you know, that little smear
of color that looks so good to

965
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,320
the live audience looks a little
weird when it's out of context.

966
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,880
And that's all you're seeing.
And you're seeing somebody with

967
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,080
a big smear of orange or, or
blue on their face.

968
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,640
It doesn't make as much sense.
How can you do that same thing

969
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,320
and sort of impart that color
statement but not make it look

970
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,840
so strange to the people that
are that are watching on on

971
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,360
their TV?
So I did get intrigued by it,

972
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,200
but I also saw it as the future.
I saw it as, you know, a

973
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,520
different way, you know, to
operate.

974
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,400
And I like the precision of it
for some reason there.

975
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,160
There was something about the
mechanics of how light and and

976
00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:00,400
the camera and the iris of the
camera work that that I enjoyed.

977
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,440
And then I partnered up with Jim
Moody.

978
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,720
Well, that didn't hurt.
That didn't hurt.

979
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:09,160
And he had a lot to say and a
lot to share with me.

980
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:14,760
And, you know, just really, I,
you know, I developed kind of a

981
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,720
love for, for the art form.
How could how could I make those

982
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:24,720
shows look as good as possible
on camera without robbing the

983
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:26,880
live audience of the experience
also?

984
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,680
And that that was early 90s, I
think, right?

985
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,760
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it started in the 80s

986
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,880
and.
And the other thing about it was

987
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,920
that I, I resented the fact that
the video crews would come in

988
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,160
and they'd sort of push me aside
and try to relight my show.

989
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,800
And so I thought, well, I want
to learn more about this so that

990
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,280
I'm valuable to them and they
won't feel so compelled to to

991
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,120
Get Me Out of their way.
Right.

992
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,000
So that was so.
And then by the 90s is when it

993
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,520
really started to to take hold.
And then in the 90s is when I

994
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,160
partnered up with Jim and really
started seeing the stuff he was

995
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:10,280
doing and, and befriended people
like Bill Klages and Bob

996
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:15,960
Dickinson and watch what they
did and saw how artfully they

997
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,400
they did what they were doing.
And I thought, OK, this appeals

998
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,240
to me.
Yeah, yeah.

999
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,600
And I know I should know the
answer to this, but I'm going to

1000
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:32,360
ask you anyways.
Really specifically like live

1001
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,960
music and and sports and stuff
like that.

1002
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,040
Not television or, or film or
any of that kind of lighting,

1003
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,600
right?
Yeah, I, you know, I wasn't

1004
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,840
really equipped to go into film.
I suppose I could have tried to

1005
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,800
become a cinematographer, but
that really wasn't on my plate

1006
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,240
because I had, I was so firmly
involved in the live

1007
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,800
entertainment industry.
And.

1008
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,480
And I saw that there was this
whole thing about live

1009
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,440
entertainment being shot for TV.
That was an enormous market.

1010
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,520
And there were all of these
people there that didn't

1011
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,720
understand it.
Yeah, you know, they didn't

1012
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,680
understand what that transition
was going to be and these other

1013
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,960
consultants and you know,
so-called experts had to come in

1014
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,120
and help.
And I thought, okay, I can be

1015
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:17,920
that person.
So when I aged.

1016
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,280
Out.
Of the touring industry, that's

1017
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,640
something that I can, you know,
that I can do.

1018
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,400
Plus, I find it really
interesting, other than the

1019
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:33,080
one-on-one, what friction that I
might have dealing with, you

1020
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,080
know, an LD that I would whose
show I was adapting.

1021
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,440
And so I thought I was a
recipient of that for so many

1022
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,680
years.
I should know psychologically

1023
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:43,800
how to approach these people.
And that's what I did.

1024
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,800
I tried to create some sort of a
bedside manner that wasn't so

1025
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:49,680
off putting.
Yeah.

1026
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:54,080
Yeah, I know that.
I I've been witness to some of

1027
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,800
the situations where, you know,
somebody's got a tour out and

1028
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,400
then Brandon or you or someone
is brought in to light it for an

1029
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,280
HBO special.
And you see some of the

1030
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:09,240
discussions, let's call it that,
are not always extremely

1031
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,800
productive.
But I think by this point, we've

1032
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,720
all gotten pretty used to it
because of all the streaming and

1033
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,520
all the different things that go
on now.

1034
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,200
Like, I think more shows are
shot for television than are not

1035
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,160
at this point, you know, or shot
for some type of a device

1036
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,560
anyways.
Plus iMac.

1037
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,080
Yeah.
Yeah, iMac.

1038
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:35,480
Yeah, of course.
Have digital cameras made it so

1039
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:40,720
much easier now?
Well, I mean, for sure there was

1040
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,280
a time when the cameras were so
much less forgiving for light

1041
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,760
levels and colour and certain
colours were, you know, you were

1042
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,320
taught like the first lesson you
learned when you were getting

1043
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,800
into television was no red
because cameras couldn't

1044
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,560
register red.
Now they can.

1045
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,440
And there's so there's so much
more.

1046
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,240
And now of course.
You can go down to super low

1047
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,400
light levels, which you wouldn't
do for a concert necessarily

1048
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,840
where there's a live audience,
but you might do for a show

1049
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,280
that's on a sound stage where
you're not worried about the

1050
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,800
audience.
And there's so many advantages

1051
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:24,720
to working at lower light levels
that that the cameras allow you

1052
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:25,960
to do that.
What?

1053
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,560
Why wouldn't you?
Yeah.

1054
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,640
What about video, though?
Like, like all the LED screens

1055
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,280
that everyone has?
Is that a real problem when it

1056
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,680
comes to shooting it for for
television?

1057
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:37,560
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.

1058
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,320
It just seems like a brightness
war, you know, like you're going

1059
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,680
to go that bright, we're going
to do this, you know, and

1060
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:45,880
everything.
The levels just keep getting

1061
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,560
higher and higher and we're
getting lights that are now 6070

1062
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,480
thousand lumens on these rigs.
And it's like, what for?

1063
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,520
Like when did we ever decide
that it needed to be bright as

1064
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,000
the sun, right?
Right.

1065
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,840
Well, you know, and whoever ever
has their their hand on the dial

1066
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,000
wants their toy to be the
biggest I guess.

1067
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,720
Right.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

1068
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,720
But.
But but truly, you know, there

1069
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,640
was a time when the screens
needed to be brighter just to

1070
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,520
register properly.
If you took it down to the level

1071
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,280
that you know the lighting
people wanted, it would start to

1072
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:23,080
flicker and lose, lose quality.
Now the screens can go down to

1073
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,240
much, much lower levels, but the
problem is the brightness.

1074
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,520
I mean, you can never get
anybody on stage bright enough

1075
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,400
with the stage lighting to match
what those screens are putting

1076
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,240
out right in your face.
You.

1077
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,360
Know on the face, on on.
It is like reflective.

1078
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:45,640
The screen is direct light right
in, right into the eye and right

1079
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,960
into the camera.
So there's that, and then the

1080
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,120
that's gotta be.
Difficult that that's tough

1081
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,240
because I mean, it's even hard
when you're trying to take a

1082
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,560
selfie or something, you know,
just to, you know, to light your

1083
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,120
to light your face enough with,
with an LED screen behind you

1084
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,120
that's just blasting forward or
whatever.

1085
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,840
Well, it's like it being in
front of a window.

1086
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,840
Yeah, of course.
And trying to take a picture and

1087
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,840
somehow your face gets really
dark and the window looks great,

1088
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,240
right?
So there's that.

1089
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:15,640
And then the color is usually
way off.

1090
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:20,680
And like for any, for instance,
situation like Coachella where

1091
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:25,840
they spend the entire first half
of the show day in daylight.

1092
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,120
And so of course, the screens
have to be bright and they and

1093
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:34,360
they're usually matched to
daylight as you get closer to

1094
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,360
night time and then completely,
you know, night, night time,

1095
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,680
those screens need to come way
down because the stage lights

1096
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:46,080
just can't compete.
And so it is, it's a little bit

1097
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:51,320
of AII don't want to say battle
because the technicians that are

1098
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,840
all starting to understand what
the objective is, but it is a

1099
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,920
coordination and it is a little
bit of a of a waltz.

1100
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,720
Yeah, or a battle.
Yes.

1101
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,960
Yeah, it was a bit of a battle.
I think I called it a war, so I

1102
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:09,240
was even less diplomatic.
But yeah, I can see that being

1103
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:13,880
problematic.
And light to the stage too.

1104
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,160
I mean, somebody that's standing
next to a screen is getting all

1105
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,320
this weird color and and
brightness on them that doesn't

1106
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:25,400
necessarily look that good.
Yeah, yeah, You know, I, I, if

1107
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,120
you've ever listened to my
podcast, I usually start out

1108
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,920
with how do you start?
And honestly, I don't even know

1109
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,000
the answer to that even as long
as I've known you and and you've

1110
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,640
been on the podcast, but you
were part of a group of people.

1111
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:42,760
But like, did you go to theater
school or did you?

1112
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:48,920
Yeah, yeah.
I'm, I grew up just outside New

1113
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,000
York City, the New Jersey part
of New York.

1114
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:59,680
And I, I got exposed to some
Broadway shows when I was young.

1115
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,600
My dad took me to some shows and
I really kind of got into that

1116
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,840
and theater and always kind of
pursued that throughout school.

1117
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,880
So I, I, I thought I was going
to the theater.

1118
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,520
There was no rock'n'roll on
those days or what in television

1119
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:18,520
or film, which really I didn't
see my way into.

1120
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:22,160
And I love the idea of, you
know, the connection between the

1121
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,240
show and the live audience.
It was something that even as a

1122
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:31,960
kid that intrigued me.
So I did go to college for

1123
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,240
theater where you study
everything and do everything.

1124
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:37,880
So you know, and and that's
good.

1125
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:43,160
You know, you you learn every
your craft from both sides of

1126
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,000
the stage.
And when I got.

1127
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,800
Out you studied acting as well
I.

1128
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:52,640
Studied acting, you know, I
mean, I, I, I saw that as a

1129
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:56,040
potential path.
I've got to say where I grew up,

1130
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:00,920
I, there wasn't much exposure to
stuff like lighting and the tech

1131
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,840
side acting seemed to be acting
or directing seemed to be what

1132
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:06,840
you would do.
And when I got college, I

1133
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,480
suddenly realized that there
were a lot of people that were

1134
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,800
studying the technical side.
And as it turned out, my college

1135
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:20,480
roommate was really into
lighting and got me to take some

1136
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,800
classes.
And I just gobbled it up and,

1137
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,760
you know, really, you know,
connected to it.

1138
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:30,360
So when I got out of school, I
actually did act for a couple of

1139
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:35,040
years, but I was also lighting
simultaneously.

1140
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,840
I just, you know, take whatever
I could to pay the bills.

1141
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:46,400
And at one point it just sort of
flipped because I'd been a, a

1142
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,960
musician in, in high school, I
played keyboards in a rock band

1143
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,040
that I, you know, had with my
friends and I had a little bit

1144
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:58,080
of local success.
So I always miss that.

1145
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,800
And I just put it totally aside
when I went went to college.

1146
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:09,760
But one day shortly after I
graduated, I saw an ad for in in

1147
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,160
one of the arts magazines in
Chicago, because I went to

1148
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:17,880
school in Chicago and they were
looking for a lighting director

1149
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:22,200
for National Recording Group.
So I thought, OK, called the

1150
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,680
number, had an interview, got
the job because I was one of the

1151
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,000
few people that had any lighting
experience.

1152
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,440
So we're all kinds of people
applying for the job, but none

1153
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,120
of them had any experience.
We're talking about the early

1154
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,160
70s where everybody just wanted
to, you know, join the circus or

1155
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:36,920
join rock.
Band.

1156
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,400
It's just wild though, that
they'd advertise for a lighting

1157
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:43,200
guy in the local, you know,
newspaper or whatever that's.

1158
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,840
Hilarious.
Yeah, no kidding.

1159
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,840
That's hilarious.
And you just happened to see it.

1160
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,680
I just happened to see it.
Destiny.

1161
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:58,640
I had seen a Grateful Dead show
in Chicago about a week before

1162
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:03,320
and it was one of the first
shows that had real production.

1163
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,120
And I think Candace Brightman
was probably there, but I

1164
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,600
certainly didn't know, know her.
I mean, I'm sure she was there.

1165
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,920
We talked about it when it when
I met her years later.

1166
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:19,640
And it was all like Lycos and
Pars and beams and and haze and,

1167
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,680
you know, kind kinds of things
that production turned into.

1168
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,760
But it was one of the few shows
that really was carrying that

1169
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,200
that level of production.
And it was everything that I had

1170
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,280
learned in theater school you
weren't supposed to do.

1171
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:35,520
The lighting was supposed to be
invisible.

1172
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,360
You maybe you were creating a, a
Thunder and lightning effect.

1173
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,760
But aside from that, you were
supposed to be realistic, you

1174
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:47,360
know, unless you were doing some
sort of, you know, abstract show

1175
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,720
that required, you know.
Some stuff was on display and

1176
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,080
part of the show, basically.
Yeah, right.

1177
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,160
That's interesting.
I never heard it, never heard it

1178
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:56,760
described like that, but it's so
true.

1179
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,280
And, you know, all this lighting
that was really tangible, you

1180
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:04,800
could reach out and touch it.
And I thought, wow, that breaks

1181
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:06,240
every rule I've ever been
taught.

1182
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,360
But I like it.
So here I was just maybe seven

1183
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,600
days later and I saw this ad and
I thought, OK, you know, let's

1184
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,200
let's give it a try.
And you know, like 2 weeks later

1185
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:21,600
I was in a nightclub lighting
lighting a band and taking it

1186
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,479
and going around playing
colleges and opening for bigger

1187
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:28,720
bands where I kind of saw what
the early level of production

1188
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:35,319
was, you know, trees and you
know, no trusses yet pre Truss.

1189
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,840
Wow.
Yeah, I mean even that great for

1190
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,760
bed show that I saw they had
scaffolds but they didn't have

1191
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,240
Truss.
Wow, that's amazing.

1192
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,040
And.
That band wasn't Styx, was it?

1193
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:51,720
That wasn't Styx, but they were.
But they were in Chicago, too.

1194
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,560
So I was working for this band
and we opened for Styx and I got

1195
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,520
to know them.
And so that was sort of my

1196
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,279
graduate band.
Yeah.

1197
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,160
So yeah, I mean, what?
They needed someone, and I was

1198
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:12,359
one of the few local LDS in
Chicago that understood the the

1199
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:14,880
vibe and the art form of
rock'n'roll.

1200
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:18,080
At that point.
I'd had a year or two in into it

1201
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:21,600
and so I got the you're a.
Crusty old veteran now.

1202
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,479
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, exactly those terms.

1203
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,120
That's wild.
So that's how it all began and

1204
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,160
it was really one thing led to
another.

1205
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:35,520
But Styx was really good for me
because they they really sky

1206
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,279
rocketed to fame.
I mean, it was a time in history

1207
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:42,399
where, you know, they were, you
know, considered, you know, that

1208
01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:46,120
prog rock, A lot of people
thought they were British just

1209
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:51,080
because of the style of of music
and, you know, the sound of the

1210
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,920
lead singer's voice.
But they weren't, they were just

1211
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,200
from Chicago.
But we did some really

1212
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,480
theatrical things.
And when they said, well, we're

1213
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,640
we're doing a new tour and we're
about to release a new album,

1214
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:05,720
what do you what do you want to
do?

1215
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:11,160
I would always throw backdrops
in and scrims and all these

1216
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,680
theatrical techniques that I
knew were fun and they were

1217
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,440
willing to spend a little bit of
money.

1218
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,840
And then we would.
I mean, I, I don't want to say I

1219
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,240
choreographed the show, but
there were times that I would

1220
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,680
say if you guys on this
particular guitar moment where

1221
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,640
everything stops and it's just
you 2 guys playing the guitar

1222
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,800
riff, if you guys would stand
like back-to-back over here, I

1223
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,920
could have this light on you and
then.

1224
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,560
Very dramatic effect all.
That kind of thing, you know,

1225
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:42,680
when it was really simple to do.
And so little by little, we kind

1226
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:46,200
of had this, you know,
theatrical repertoire growing.

1227
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:51,520
So was was the first band that
you went out with the the club

1228
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,680
band?
Was that your first paid gig or?

1229
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,440
And.
Then don't tell me Styx was your

1230
01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:02,240
second.
Well, I had worked around around

1231
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,160
Chicago for some other small,
small bands and then I had gone

1232
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:09,880
out on the road with the with
the Corons.

1233
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:11,840
Oh.
Really Beijing.

1234
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,360
They they invited me to go out
on a Kiss tour and it was Kisses

1235
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:21,840
first big arena tour.
It was right after the Kiss

1236
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,800
Alive album came out and I want
to rock.

1237
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:28,320
Was that cheap trick opening?
Everybody opened for them, you

1238
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,320
know, so.
I'm just trying to 'cause I

1239
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:36,000
remember I saw KISS when I was.
I had to be 12 years old or

1240
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:37,640
something the first time I saw
KISS.

1241
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,800
What are you?
Doing and it was in the Calgary

1242
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:45,280
Corral, the the old hockey arena
in Calgary.

1243
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:49,240
And it was just, it was for me,
it was life changing.

1244
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:53,440
Like it just changed everything
I believed about music and shows

1245
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:56,440
and all that kind of stuff.
I was in in bands at the time.

1246
01:11:56,440 --> 01:11:59,560
But yeah, that was it was
everything.

1247
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,680
Yeah, it was everything.
It was just, yeah, fun.

1248
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,440
Just spitting blood and lighting
things on fire and stuff.

1249
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:11,120
I was, I was hooked, you know,
that I was so into KISS at that

1250
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,160
point.
It was like, wow, this is so

1251
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:15,520
amazing.
I didn't know what to expect.

1252
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,960
I was not aware of them at all.
I went out really on the 1st

1253
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:23,240
show and I remember being in the
back of the house and we were

1254
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:27,480
playing some theater in Buffalo
or someplace and they were

1255
01:12:27,480 --> 01:12:31,000
testing out the flamethrowers.
You know that big flame pots

1256
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:33,240
which happened to be.
They bought them from the

1257
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,600
original Wizard of Oz production
where if you remember when the

1258
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,200
Wizard is first seen, there are
these flames that are shooting

1259
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,320
up around him.
They bought those devices from.

1260
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:44,000
That.
And that's.

1261
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,360
An interesting story.
Cuz it wasn't something that was

1262
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,040
like around that you could just
buy.

1263
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,200
Yeah, there was no.
City.

1264
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:54,840
Nobody was using anything yet
back then in live shows.

1265
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:58,920
It was obviously they were one
of the first big real show bands

1266
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:03,520
like that, if not the first.
I don't know, I guess the Dolls.

1267
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,360
Or so I think so.
Yeah.

1268
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:07,760
But I felt this heat on the back
of my neck.

1269
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:09,760
I was setting up a console out
front.

1270
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,760
And I turn around and I see
these flames and I'm went, OK,

1271
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:17,880
this is gonna be different.
Yeah, I bet you see these. 7

1272
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:22,400
foot tall guys and high heels
and right crazy outfits and

1273
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,760
you're like, what, what were you
telling your parents about all

1274
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,280
this stuff?
Because I mean, you're, you're a

1275
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,560
fairly young Jewish kid, you
know, from New Jersey.

1276
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:32,880
You know your parents had to be
going, Jeff.

1277
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,320
Now what are you doing?
No, I got to say they found it

1278
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,160
kind of interesting.
I mean, really knew I was off

1279
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,880
the off the deep end when I went
to theater school.

1280
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,520
Yeah, and.
I know.

1281
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:48,480
Thank goodness.
They were really supportive.

1282
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:50,920
That's awesome.
Found it interesting.

1283
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,920
Crazy fun.
Yeah.

1284
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:53,880
That's cool.
Yeah.

1285
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,800
I wasn't getting myself into
trouble.

1286
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:56,640
So.
Yeah.

1287
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,120
Did they were they able to get
out to any like Springsteen

1288
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,840
shows or anything along the way
or they go or of them did they

1289
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:05,280
Good.
That's amazing.

1290
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:06,120
Yeah.
That's amazing.

1291
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,920
That's so much fun when you're
able to share your work with

1292
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,120
your parents like that.
Yeah, Yeah.

1293
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,520
So I've got to say, they were.
They were happy for me and so

1294
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:16,400
cool.
Although if they would have seen

1295
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,640
Kiss, they might have been like
Jeff.

1296
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,840
Yeah, they never did see KISS.
Yeah, we should have a talk

1297
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,200
here, Jeff.
Yeah, that's wild.

1298
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,920
And so that was your first time
that you actually went on tour

1299
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,840
was was with the Crones and,
and, and the Crones being

1300
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,520
upstaging, of course or
eventually, I don't know if they

1301
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,040
were upstaging yet.
But they were, they were OK.

1302
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:42,520
I met, I met Robert Crone at a
show that my original club act

1303
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,880
was was performing at.
And so he was standing back

1304
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,760
there because upstaging it
provided the gear and we just

1305
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,360
got to talking and kind of
exchange numbers.

1306
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:57,960
And the next thing I know he had
actually called me to do a

1307
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,440
couple of small shows with him.
It was literally me and Robert

1308
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:06,600
Carone in a in a U-Haul or a
Ryder truck taking a bunch of

1309
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:10,720
car cans out of his garage or
renting them from one of the

1310
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,320
local vendors in town to get
what he didn't have, and the two

1311
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,840
of us driving somewhere like
Wisconsin and doing a show for a

1312
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:20,760
day.
So I had done that for a while.

1313
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:25,000
Yeah.
That is wild.

1314
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:29,160
And and did you go?
To their party this year at UPS,

1315
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,320
at LDI.
Yeah, I did.

1316
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:32,960
I saw you there.
I can't remember.

1317
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,720
I think I had about 12 glasses
of wine by then.

1318
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:39,160
Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1319
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:41,920
There was some good wine.
Yeah, the wine is always good at

1320
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:43,480
that party.
It's it's crazy.

1321
01:15:43,480 --> 01:15:47,480
But I had a really nice.
So it was kind of a funny moment

1322
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:51,720
because I saw Seth kind of
Houdini out the door and I was

1323
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,840
super tired because I I can't
change time anymore.

1324
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:59,120
So I've been getting up at 3:00
in the morning in, in Las Vegas

1325
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,080
or four in the morning every
morning, right?

1326
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,400
Yeah.
And so I was dead tired and it's

1327
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,920
like, I don't know, 9:00 or
something.

1328
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,680
And I, Sarah was with me and I
said, let's Houdini, let's,

1329
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,400
let's pull out.
I'm just going to wait for the

1330
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,920
right moment.
And I see Seth duck out the

1331
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:18,320
door.
And so I go, oh, Seth, Seth, you

1332
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:19,720
know, like I wanted to talk to
him.

1333
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:22,760
And now I'm out the door, you
know, into the restaurant part.

1334
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:25,720
And I'm like, ha.
And he goes, whoa, something up.

1335
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,360
And I go, no, no, no, I was just
using you because you just left.

1336
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,280
So I'm using you.
So then I'm on my way physically

1337
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:35,600
like to go up the stairs to get
out of there and I run into

1338
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,080
Robert.
He's been coming back from the

1339
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,760
bathroom or wherever he was, but
and I ended up in probably, I

1340
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,280
don't know, a 30-40 minute talk
with Robert.

1341
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:48,400
We just had this very cool, very
long, nice talk.

1342
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,760
I, I love that guy.
Yeah, they're, they're such nice

1343
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,280
people.
They really.

1344
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,160
Truly and deserve all their
success.

1345
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,160
Oh heck yeah, yeah.
And they do have a lot of

1346
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:58,800
success.
Yes, yes.

1347
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:03,960
They got some success, so.
So that's why I thank for

1348
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:05,640
getting me getting me in the
door.

1349
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:10,560
So they called me for for Kiss,
met a bunch of bands and, and,

1350
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:15,240
and all of their tour managers
and so forth doing that.

1351
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:19,680
And Styx actually opened for for
Kiss several times.

1352
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,600
And I remember one night, weird
fit.

1353
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,840
It was actually pretty good.
Really.

1354
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:30,600
I mean God playing bands but.
It was early earlier in Styx's

1355
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,640
career also.
It was pre Tommy Shaw.

1356
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:36,440
Yeah.
Do you know anything about them?

1357
01:17:36,440 --> 01:17:42,480
You know, Tom, Tommy had joined
them in like 76 and and gave,

1358
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,600
you know, an interesting shot in
the arm, a really good, you

1359
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:52,240
know, to the band.
So Stick got Styx got the band.

1360
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,840
The crowd really, really revved
up.

1361
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:59,440
So they were a good opening act
for yeah, yes, people were that.

1362
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:03,720
Was like, that was like Lorelei
and light up and all that stuff,

1363
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:04,600
Yeah.
Exactly.

1364
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,040
I I got so into sticks when I
heard that.

1365
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,360
Like I heard Lorelei and Light
Up and I don't remember if there

1366
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,880
were other songs on that album,
but I was just like, wow.

1367
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:18,440
And it is incredible.
Yeah, they were huge.

1368
01:18:18,440 --> 01:18:20,800
And I just, I flipped out when I
heard that.

1369
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,000
I was like, this is the coolest
band I've ever heard.

1370
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:28,320
And so, yeah, that's cool.
And, you know, Tommy Shaw is one

1371
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:31,920
of those guys that have such a
high degree of appreciation for

1372
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:36,080
because he is still doing it and
not mailing it in.

1373
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:40,040
Like, he's like Steven Tyler,
but Steven Tyler can't quite

1374
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,480
hold it together completely, you
know, But sounds good.

1375
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:48,040
Looks like a rock star, does the
songs as well as he ever did.

1376
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:50,000
He's amazing.
That guy.

1377
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,520
He just totally agree.
Doesn't seem to age.

1378
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:56,440
You know, he's amazing.
And and, you know, the rapport

1379
01:18:56,440 --> 01:18:59,360
with the audience I think is
better than ever, you know,

1380
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:03,800
yeah, so good how they've
managed to just get better over

1381
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,800
the years.
Yeah, I mean, even when I see

1382
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,880
people uploading iPhone videos
or whatever and I'll watch them

1383
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:16,440
do whatever it is and I'm just
like, man, he's still so good.

1384
01:19:16,440 --> 01:19:20,600
Like he sounds incredible at
whatever age he is now.

1385
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:25,200
And you know, God bless him.
And, and Lawrence Gowen's a

1386
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:30,640
funny one because I knew Gowen
personally in Canada when he was

1387
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:36,680
Gowen and, and you know, he, he
got a little big in Canada, but

1388
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,240
nowhere near as big as as Styx,
obviously.

1389
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:42,320
So that's been an incredible
ride for him as well.

1390
01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:44,400
Absolutely, and he's been good
for them.

1391
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,520
Oh, amazing.
Like he was such a good fit for

1392
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:49,920
what they needed.
You know, they needed a showman.

1393
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:54,200
They needed a good singer who
could do those parts that Dennis

1394
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,760
did, and they needed a great
keyboard player.

1395
01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:00,120
And he just really fit the bill.
He's very, very.

1396
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,560
Flamboyant.
Not flamboyant might be the

1397
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:04,640
wrong word, but he is kind of
flamboyant.

1398
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:06,600
He's a showman, you know?
And a good way.

1399
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:07,920
Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah.

1400
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:12,000
Yeah, physically great on stage.
Yeah, no, he's fantastic.

1401
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,920
They God bless him and the the
longevity that that band has

1402
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,640
pulled out and they just keep
packaging them with Journey or

1403
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:23,680
with REO Speedwagon or with all
of those bands from the same

1404
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,120
basic era.
Yeah.

1405
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,360
And it just keeps going.
The train keeps on a roll.

1406
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:30,560
And they were just here in South
Florida recently.

1407
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:35,320
I got invited and I didn't go,
but yeah, Yeah.

1408
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:36,080
That's cool.
So.

1409
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,080
So what did that lead?
So by this point, do you know

1410
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:43,480
that this is the career I want?
I want to be a touring lighting

1411
01:20:43,480 --> 01:20:46,880
guy or or.
Yeah, absolutely.

1412
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,280
At that point, there was no
question in my mind.

1413
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,120
I still have.
You ever on a crew, like did you

1414
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:54,720
ever have to be a tech, a
lighting tech or anything, or

1415
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,760
did you just go straight to
lighting director, lighting

1416
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:01,760
designer?
No, actually when I when I did

1417
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:06,560
kiss, I was on the crew and so
and that was good.

1418
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,680
That was really good for me
because that was a bigger show

1419
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,200
than I had ever been involved
with on on sticks.

1420
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,520
They hadn't done anything quite
like that.

1421
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:21,160
So I got to see how all of that
worked and, and just live that

1422
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:25,800
life and work that schedule and
I got to run the opening act.

1423
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,080
So that was always fun.
So I got, you know, a little bit

1424
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:34,680
of LD chops doing that so.
That's amazing experience.

1425
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:38,160
Yeah, that took off a lot of the
the pressure of having to learn

1426
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:40,880
that stuff on the fly later on,
obviously.

1427
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:44,160
Yeah, it's huge value.
Yeah, I mean, I had to learn the

1428
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:50,280
terminology and you know, just
the literally the the route from

1429
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:52,560
the dimmers to the light to the
console.

1430
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:56,760
And figure all that out.
So, but I did that for six

1431
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:03,000
months and then I, I left and I
went back to Styx and I had

1432
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,600
left, I had left Styx, you know,
for, you know, little, little

1433
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:12,240
sabbatical and no, excuse me,
I'm, I'm not to get too bogged

1434
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,080
down in the, in the details.
It was that that club band, I

1435
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:18,920
left the club band, went to
kids, went back to the club band

1436
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:23,600
and within a month I got the,
the offer from Styx and so on

1437
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:25,560
again.
So I had a couple of, you know,

1438
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,400
quick turnarounds and the.
Styx thing lasted like you said,

1439
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,840
50 years, 15 years.
Incredible.

1440
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,040
That's.
Wild wild.

1441
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:36,560
You made some good choices on
artists.

1442
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:40,400
You know, I, I guess I was in
the right place at the right

1443
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:45,320
time and, and yeah, fortunately
I, I said yes.

1444
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:50,760
Now, when I, when I was offered
Bruce, I said no initially.

1445
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:54,960
Really, a lot of people don't
know that, but I was I, I was

1446
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:59,480
with yes at the time, and I was
you.

1447
01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:02,000
Can't say no to yes.
That exactly that's.

1448
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,280
Sure.
That's probably the dumbest joke

1449
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:12,280
I've ever said.
No but but good good so and I

1450
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,320
didn't.
I couldn't see my way to

1451
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:18,960
extricating myself from from the
yes tour initially but thought

1452
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:22,040
about it for a couple of days
and turned around and re

1453
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,760
accepted the the offer so.
Which yes, tour was that?

1454
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:29,720
It was at nine O 2.
One O 2, one O yeah.

1455
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,040
Smeeton ended up doing it,
didn't he?

1456
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:34,920
Well, after I after.
After you left.

1457
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:37,720
Actually, he came in as a
programmer, believe it or not.

1458
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:42,080
Yeah.
So I was, I was out there with

1459
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,720
them for about 6 months and I
got the Springsteen offer.

1460
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:50,320
So I turned it over to a friend
of mine named Merle McClain, who

1461
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,200
if you know, but he was, he was
a good friend of mine who I

1462
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:59,360
thought musically and and
lighting designer wise, he was

1463
01:23:59,480 --> 01:24:01,960
permed for it.
And then I had just seen

1464
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:07,560
Jonathan's Thompson Twins show.
Jonathan was just really kind of

1465
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:12,280
newly out-of-the-box as this,
you know, lighting as this

1466
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:15,840
Varilite programmer slash
designer.

1467
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,320
And that Thompson Twins tour was
really groundbreaking, as small

1468
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,560
as it was.
And he programmed the whole

1469
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,400
thing and and designed it.
And so I went to see the show

1470
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:30,640
and I said please, you know,
come and program varilites for

1471
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:34,600
us, which he did.
And between me, Merle and

1472
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:37,960
Jonathan, I thought we did, you
know, we created a pretty good

1473
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,280
show and I got the Gabby there.
I went to Bruce.

1474
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:42,640
Yeah, I saw that show.
It was good.

1475
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:48,040
Yeah.
So so you said no because you

1476
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:52,880
were with Yes, but you you did
want to like by that time Bruce

1477
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:54,600
was had already taken off,
right.

1478
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,480
Well, it was pre born in the
USA.

1479
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:02,080
Oh, it was just after the river
tour and he hadn't done anything

1480
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,360
in a in a in a a few years
because he was recording the

1481
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:07,080
album and doing some other
things.

1482
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:14,040
So I, I didn't feel inclined
initially to, to leave the Yes

1483
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:15,560
tour.
But, you know, I thought about

1484
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:19,080
it and, you know, discussed it
with some friends and thought,

1485
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:22,040
well, that's an insane decision
on my part.

1486
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:26,920
So I quickly backtracked and,
and, and accepted the offer.

1487
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:33,040
And on that show, born in the
USA, of course, turned out to

1488
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,960
be, you know, Britain's most
successful album.

1489
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:41,240
He went from from star to, you
know, mega superstar on that

1490
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:45,000
tour, right and we so we were
all there.

1491
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:51,320
It was a two year tour hitting
the entire world and just had a

1492
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:54,680
ball doing it and it.
Still hasn't ended that tour

1493
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:56,600
still hasn't ended.
He's still touring.

1494
01:25:57,160 --> 01:26:00,520
Price of tickets has gone from
like $5.00 to 5000.

1495
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:05,000
But you know, aside from that,
you know, it's, it's all pretty

1496
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,200
much the same.
Crazy that all on on the Bourne

1497
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:12,320
in the USA tour, that was just
when the Jacksons Victory Tour

1498
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:17,760
was out as well and we all were
invited to the Victory Tour but

1499
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,440
they said but you have to buy
your ticket.

1500
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:24,080
So it was a $75 ticket.
This is 1984.

1501
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:29,280
Bruce was the best seat in the
house for Bruce was 1875.

1502
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:33,680
That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, that's wild. 75 bucks for

1503
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:35,080
the Victory Tour.
Yeah.

1504
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:36,560
And you had to pay.
Did you pay?

1505
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:40,560
You know, we were supposed to
pay and somehow I never did.

1506
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,920
I think that you know, the tour
manager must have bought.

1507
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,080
Somebody, somebody's going to be
come and look and going.

1508
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,600
Hey, $75.
Yeah, plus interest, plus the

1509
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:55,320
Houston $5000.
Yeah, yeah.

1510
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,680
Oh my God.
You know, Bruce, OK, so the

1511
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,840
artists, I guess are somewhat
responsible for ticket prices,

1512
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:07,280
but the the whole dynamic
pricing thing gets a lot of

1513
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:11,600
artists in trouble.
And you know, again, I think

1514
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:15,280
it's one of those situations
where things are done maybe for

1515
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:17,920
the right reason and then it
spins out of control and it

1516
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,360
becomes all wrong and all bad
and everything else.

1517
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:25,880
But you got to do something.
Because what's happening is if

1518
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:31,000
Bruce is selling tickets for 300
bucks, call it, none of them end

1519
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,240
up in the hands of fans at that
price.

1520
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:37,240
They're, they're all bought up
by, by resellers and then

1521
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:42,360
they're sold again on the, on
the secondary markets and they

1522
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,840
become $5000 anyways.
And now Bruce isn't making any

1523
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:47,840
of the money.
The promoter is not making any

1524
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:49,800
of the money.
Certainly Jeff Rabbits isn't

1525
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,760
making any of that money.
And you know what I mean?

1526
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,760
So like, why shouldn't the
artist at least get a piece of

1527
01:27:57,440 --> 01:27:59,840
the fans that are willing to pay
$5000?

1528
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:01,280
Why shouldn't you get a piece of
that?

1529
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,520
So I see some common sense to
it.

1530
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,880
I see some logic to it.
And, and guess what people could

1531
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:09,480
say, but he's greedy.
Well, you know, people don't do

1532
01:28:09,480 --> 01:28:12,400
things because they don't want
to make any money usually.

1533
01:28:12,480 --> 01:28:15,520
Like generally there's going to
be a commercial side of

1534
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,280
everything we do, right?
We all want to be able to

1535
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:22,400
survive and God forbid, be able
to afford, you know, a vacation

1536
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,320
or a a meal every once in a
while, you know, like.

1537
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:29,320
Yes, absolutely.
Well, and and I'm not defending

1538
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:32,600
the whole dynamic pricing thing,
but I, Bruce did put out a

1539
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:35,120
statement saying anybody that
doesn't feel like they got their

1540
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:38,360
money, money's worth may go to
the box office and get a full

1541
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,360
refund for whatever you paid.
And I guess to date, there's

1542
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:42,880
been none of the.
Refunds.

1543
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,680
Yeah, well, because probably
half those $5000 tickets are

1544
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:49,960
reselling for 10, you know,
because there's so much friggin

1545
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:53,240
available cash out there right
now that people, if they want to

1546
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:57,160
go see Bruce and they want good
seats, what's the price that

1547
01:28:57,160 --> 01:28:59,000
they won't pay?
You know what I mean?

1548
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:03,800
That's like I just, I just saw,
what's his name, Hendricks the

1549
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:07,000
OR Hendrick the guy?
Rick Hendrick, he owns a bunch

1550
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:09,560
of car dealerships.
I just saw on one of these

1551
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,400
auctions, I think it was a
Meekum auctions, he paid like

1552
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:21,120
$3.5 million for the 1st 2025
Corvette CR1 that's coming off

1553
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:23,240
the line like it's serial number
OO1.

1554
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:28,280
He paid $3.5 million for it.
I mean this is a Corvette that

1555
01:29:28,440 --> 01:29:31,920
will sell for about 175,000 in
the dealership.

1556
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:36,240
But you want serial number OO1
Guess what you know?

1557
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:39,360
And when I start going up over 2
million, I was like, you gotta

1558
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,000
be shitting me.
It's a it's.

1559
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:43,160
Worth whatever anybody will pay
for it.

1560
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,080
Correct.
And, and the problem with

1561
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:48,480
tickets is that when you're
talking about Bruce Springsteen

1562
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:53,960
or Taylor Swift, name the price
because you're going to find

1563
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,720
people and there's and so you
have to adjust to the market you

1564
01:29:57,720 --> 01:29:58,480
have.
To yes.

1565
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:01,080
You know I.
Just from the consumers point of

1566
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:05,080
view, when you look at the
website and there's a ticket for

1567
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:10,320
$800.00 and then you look 5
minutes later and it's $2000,

1568
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:12,000
then you really feel kind of
ripped off.

1569
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:16,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I completely get it.

1570
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:20,320
I get it from both sides though.
Because again, the problem is

1571
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:24,120
that rich guy who wants to go
see Bruce Springsteen is going

1572
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:26,520
to pay 5 grand.
He'll pay it from some seedy

1573
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,640
scalper somewhere.
The tickets, you know, pass

1574
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,640
through several sets of hands or
whatever.

1575
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:35,680
Why shouldn't that be a
controlled situation where, you

1576
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:39,160
know, the money is going back to
the artist and to the promoter,

1577
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:43,040
the people who actually paid the
money and put in the effort to

1578
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:46,360
put this show on and everything
else versus the scalper?

1579
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:48,920
So I don't know.
It's it's a problem that's as

1580
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:52,480
old as as concerts.
You know, the scalper situation.

1581
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,080
But I get it.
And actually, the way you the

1582
01:30:55,080 --> 01:31:00,920
way you phrase it makes sense.
Yeah, well, that's something no

1583
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,240
one's ever said to me once.
You know, Marcel, you just said

1584
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:05,600
something that really makes
sense.

1585
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,440
Let this date and history show.
Exactly.

1586
01:31:08,440 --> 01:31:10,360
Well, it's recorded.
This is a good thing.

1587
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:14,000
So now, now it's there in
Forever, you know, I'm in

1588
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,720
Forever's Ville having made
sense.

1589
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:23,160
So Styx, Bruce Springsteen.
And so that just lasted a few

1590
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:26,000
years, like where you were just
touring and being real happy and

1591
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:30,800
everything, and then you
discover this MTV thing and.

1592
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:34,880
Well, so that that's when I
thought there there really is a

1593
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:40,040
way to make a lateral at least a
lateral move, if not an upward

1594
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:45,080
move in into this field.
And I was always interested in

1595
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:48,320
that field, never thought that I
would be able to find my way

1596
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:50,440
into it, didn't really
understand it.

1597
01:31:50,440 --> 01:31:54,520
And once I started to get a feel
for what it took, and there

1598
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:58,320
would be years off sometimes
between Springsteen tours and I

1599
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:03,000
would either fill it in with
some other tours or I would

1600
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:07,040
start to find, you know, through
Jim Moody and some other

1601
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,320
friends, start to find some
television work.

1602
01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:14,800
I, you know, gaffed a show for
Jim once so that I could see

1603
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,720
what was going on.
And then he slowly began using

1604
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:22,120
me to substitute for him on
shows where he was double booked

1605
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:26,000
and he couldn't be there.
He would kind of help me through

1606
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:30,760
the design process until I kind
of had a firm grasp on my own.

1607
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:36,040
So I was doing studio shows as
well as as rock shows, really

1608
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:40,000
starting to understand how the
camera works and that's kind of

1609
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,840
what it's all about.
So at that point I saw, OK, this

1610
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:48,880
is something that I can do
almost as a parallel career to

1611
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:52,240
working with Bruce and working
with a a few of the other rock

1612
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,120
bands that I was doing it.
Seems to have worked out OK.

1613
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:58,960
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and I, I love that idea of

1614
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:04,240
the live show being turned into,
into something that could be

1615
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:06,960
consumed by, you know, TV
viewers.

1616
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:10,040
So and then at one point it just
sort of like turned around.

1617
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:13,360
I still have a couple of rock
things, but I would say 90% of

1618
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:16,800
my year is doing television
style things.

1619
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:20,440
Yeah.
And, and sports was just sort of

1620
01:33:20,440 --> 01:33:26,360
a natural extension of that.
I'm sorry, what sports are we

1621
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:29,720
talking?
About Super Bowl, just the

1622
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:33,280
sporting events that you've been
involved in, in lighting for

1623
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:35,640
television as well.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

1624
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:40,760
Sorry, I haven't actually lit a
sports event, but I have,

1625
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:43,040
although I did did one that I'll
mention.

1626
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:48,360
But yes, that was just the first
Super Bowl that I was involved

1627
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:53,480
with was produced by the Disney
people that I knew from several

1628
01:33:53,480 --> 01:33:55,240
shows that I had done at Disney
World.

1629
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:59,800
And and so I went up against,
you know, several other

1630
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:02,840
designers in a bid process and
was was selected.

1631
01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:08,320
So that was an exciting thing to
be a part of because it was so

1632
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:15,160
enormous and outdoors dealing
with, you know, a kind of a

1633
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:20,040
transition from day daylight to
night time in a, you know, in an

1634
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:24,040
enormous stadium where you had
to set up in a 12 minute

1635
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:28,880
commercial.
Yeah, and I and I seem to recall

1636
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:31,280
that was Miami.
That was Miami.

1637
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:34,760
That was Joe Robbie Stadium.
I I was there because that was

1638
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:38,040
the first time that we put those
robo scans onto something and it

1639
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:39,640
was a nightmare.
That's right.

1640
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:43,400
That's right.
Well, it was certainly a a big

1641
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,360
show.
I think I was probably in a

1642
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:50,480
little over my head as well, but
we had a couple of technical

1643
01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:53,800
snafus that.
And that we did.

1644
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:59,480
And it it, it was a big enough
show that we that we really

1645
01:34:59,480 --> 01:35:03,040
couldn't afford to lose many of
the lights that we had.

1646
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:09,040
My recollection is that by
Showtime, everything was back

1647
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:11,680
where it needed.
It was, it wasn't easy.

1648
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:17,360
I had a lot of guys that didn't
sleep for a few days and we had

1649
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:19,120
to bring some guys in from
Denmark.

1650
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,240
We, I don't know if you
remember, but we brought in

1651
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:24,320
Finn, who was the head engineer
for Martin in Denmark.

1652
01:35:24,480 --> 01:35:27,640
I remember.
And yeah, I mean, it was, it was

1653
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:30,320
just, that was one of the
hardest weeks, I think of my

1654
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:34,000
life because it went from, you
know, excited as hell.

1655
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:35,760
Oh, my God.
We got lights that are going to

1656
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:39,200
be on the halftime show for the
Super Bowl to, you know, could

1657
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:43,520
this week just be over already?
Please, please just survive and

1658
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:46,400
get through it.
But you know, anything like

1659
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:48,080
that.
And there had not been that many

1660
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:51,960
Super Bowls that had turned off
the lights.

1661
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,680
Most of the Super Bowls prior to
that just had supplemental fill

1662
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:58,400
lighting and it was marching
bands and so forth.

1663
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:04,280
And so I don't know whether that
many companies had all the

1664
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,080
infrastructure.
Right.

1665
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:07,040
No.
And they?

1666
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:09,760
Handle that.
And it was the 12 minute thing,

1667
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:11,880
yeah.
Well, now it's so much easier

1668
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:16,760
because you have IP rated lights
and we've all done it 1000 Times

1669
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:18,720
Now.
And you know, like I remember

1670
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:23,120
one of the things was you guys
were programming and we had

1671
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:25,840
lights all over the field and
all of a sudden the sprinklers

1672
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:27,760
came on.
Yes, that's.

1673
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:29,800
Right.
These were not IP headlights.

1674
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:35,600
And I think one of one of our
texts, like mistakenly yelled at

1675
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:40,040
one of the the NFL, you know,
runs for guys.

1676
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:44,480
And that was like a no, no,
because those guys are God when

1677
01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:47,560
it comes to the Super Bowl.
It's like, you know, you don't

1678
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:50,320
mess with our field.
You know, this is our field, and

1679
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:53,880
this is sacred.
And so it was like, OK, better

1680
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,960
put, you know, garbage bags over
the lights or whatever because

1681
01:36:56,960 --> 01:36:58,640
this is bad.
Yeah.

1682
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,560
Yeah, well, it was a learning
experience for all of us.

1683
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:04,400
Yeah.
And, you know, I came away from

1684
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:08,120
it with, you know, lots of notes
on how I would do it if I ever

1685
01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:11,400
had the opportunity again.
Yeah, yeah.

1686
01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:15,200
Well, and by the way, quite
possibly the worst lip syncing I

1687
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:18,800
think I've ever heard was Patti
LaBelle.

1688
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:23,560
It was so bad.
It was like not even believable.

1689
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:26,160
It was just like, what are you
doing?

1690
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:28,240
Like she's singing different
words and stuff.

1691
01:37:28,480 --> 01:37:32,080
Well, I I guess it's been enough
years since then that I could

1692
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:35,280
tell this story.
But, you know, audio wise, Tony

1693
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,560
Bennett and Patti LaBelle were
on the show.

1694
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:40,800
Tony Bennett insisted on singing
live.

1695
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,800
Yeah.
And Patti LaBelle insisted on

1696
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:46,080
pre recording track that she
would sync.

1697
01:37:46,480 --> 01:37:48,800
Well, Patti LaBelle couldn't
remember her words, so she

1698
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:50,560
wasn't lip syncing to the.
Track.

1699
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:54,120
Even though the track continued,
Tony Bennett forgot the words to

1700
01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:55,880
his song.
He was standing there with a

1701
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:57,880
live mic and nothing coming out
at all.

1702
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:02,920
Yeah, I know it was funny.
We had so many things that

1703
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:04,960
didn't work.
Yeah, on that.

1704
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,400
You know, it was tough.
It was tough, but there was one

1705
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:12,040
cool moment.
So I, I, I think for one of the

1706
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:15,320
nights where you guys were
programming or something, maybe

1707
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:19,040
the night before the Super Bowl
or two nights before, I was

1708
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:22,200
there just checking on my guys
and I was taking my

1709
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:25,360
father-in-law and my ex-wife out
for dinner.

1710
01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:30,240
And so they were with me.
I think my ex-wife might have

1711
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:32,760
stayed in the car, but my
father-in-law wanted to come in

1712
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:34,240
with me and just see what it
looked like.

1713
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:38,880
He's a big Super Bowl guy.
And so he's like for sale.

1714
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:40,440
Marcel, he's pulling on my
shirt.

1715
01:38:40,440 --> 01:38:42,800
And I think I'm talking to one
of your guys or something and

1716
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:44,600
he's pulling on my shirt.
Marcel, Marcel, Marcel.

1717
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:46,120
And I go, yes, Tom.
What?

1718
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:49,840
And he goes, that's, that's Tony
Bennett over there.

1719
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,160
And he was sitting in a golf
cart just by himself, nobody

1720
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:54,440
around him or anything.
Right.

1721
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:56,240
Yeah.
And I go, we'll go say hello.

1722
01:38:56,640 --> 01:38:58,360
He's like, no, no, no, I can't
do that.

1723
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:01,560
And he's old school Chicago, my,
my father-in-law, right?

1724
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:06,800
Old school, like he, he grew up
seeing Tony Bennett in bars in

1725
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:11,280
Chicago and stuff, right?
And I can't, I'm like, he's

1726
01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:13,120
sitting there by himself.
Go say hi.

1727
01:39:13,480 --> 01:39:15,800
He ends up talking to him for
like 30 minutes.

1728
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:18,120
I swear.
I could have, I could have

1729
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:21,320
murdered his wife at or his
daughter at that point and he

1730
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:22,960
wouldn't have cared.
You know, he would have been

1731
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:25,520
like, oh, I'll look away, you
know, because he was just in

1732
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:27,320
heaven.
He'd never met somebody like

1733
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:29,880
that before.
So it's just such a moment for

1734
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:31,120
him.
Pretty cool.

1735
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:33,240
About the only cool moment for
me the whole week.

1736
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:35,280
Yeah, it was stressful for
everybody.

1737
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:38,480
Yeah, it was a stressful week.
Sorry to sorry to remind you of

1738
01:39:38,480 --> 01:39:39,960
that one.
No, no, not at all.

1739
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:44,280
It's all part of it.
So of course we lost Mr. Moody,

1740
01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:48,600
I think last year or 2023 maybe.
It it was in 2024.

1741
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:50,720
Oh no.
Excuse me, 2023.

1742
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:53,400
Yeah, well, they all blur ever
since COVID.

1743
01:39:53,400 --> 01:39:57,280
It's like this one BLOB of time
since COVID, truly.

1744
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:00,480
But yeah, it's obviously sad
losing anybody right now and

1745
01:40:00,480 --> 01:40:02,120
we're losing way too many
people, but.

1746
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:12,320
Jim Moody was a big one, So
Moody Rabbits ended in 9796.

1747
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:18,480
While it really just, you know,
extended itself into Moody

1748
01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:24,840
Rabbit Hollingsworth right.
So we, we felt that adding the

1749
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:28,880
architectural component to our
practice was going to be

1750
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:32,520
something that would round us
out, get, you know, fill in a

1751
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:35,640
whole sector that we weren't
really taking advantage of.

1752
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:38,720
I was really interested in it.
I had gone, yeah, go and taking

1753
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:41,280
a bunch of classes in
architectural lighting and I was

1754
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:44,120
hot to do it.
And some of my clients were

1755
01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:47,280
hiring me to do, you know,
houses or restaurants that they

1756
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:49,120
owned.
And so I, I thought I knew what

1757
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:52,880
I was doing.
But I had a friend from my

1758
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:56,200
Chicago days that was who is now
living in LA, Dawn

1759
01:40:56,240 --> 01:41:01,200
Hollingsworth, who was a bona
fide architectural lighting

1760
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:04,800
designer.
And so we managed to get her to

1761
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:10,120
join us and did that for a few
years, really trying to grow the

1762
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:11,800
architectural side of things,
which.

1763
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:14,400
It was an interesting period of
time too, because it was sort of

1764
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:18,440
when like this arc attainment
thing started when so many like

1765
01:41:18,440 --> 01:41:22,600
especially corporate things
we're we're adding automated

1766
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:26,080
lighting or color change
technology or whatever into

1767
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:29,960
their retail environments or
into their sometimes even

1768
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:32,920
conference rooms and offices and
stuff like that.

1769
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:34,600
Exactly.
Exactly.

1770
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:39,640
But bridges were starting to be
lit and and all kinds of things.

1771
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:41,120
So that's.
Right, that's right.

1772
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:45,240
LE DS were just beginning to,
you know, rear their heads so

1773
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:48,640
that there was, you know, color
changing possible without a

1774
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:51,440
whole lot of external technology
on them.

1775
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:53,880
Yeah.
So yeah, it was a good time to

1776
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:57,240
be getting into that.
We had one client, Gameworks,

1777
01:41:57,240 --> 01:42:02,480
which was, you know, it like a
big nightclub, restaurant gaming

1778
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:06,560
chain that was really good for
us.

1779
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:08,560
And it was exactly what you just
described.

1780
01:42:09,440 --> 01:42:14,200
So we did that.
And then moving along, we we saw

1781
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:18,240
a friend of ours, Lisa
Passamante Green, who was, you

1782
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:22,160
know, kind of a competitor in
the architectural lighting side,

1783
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:25,920
but she also had a firm grip on
the theme park.

1784
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:32,760
And, and she was suddenly left
without her staff who had gone

1785
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:35,120
off and began working with
somebody else.

1786
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:37,320
And we were lending her staff.
At this point.

1787
01:42:37,320 --> 01:42:42,440
We had, you know, 15 or 20
people in our office and we

1788
01:42:42,440 --> 01:42:46,360
thought, Lisa, why don't you
just join us and then you can

1789
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:51,480
have, you know, a little bit of
safety in the entertainment side

1790
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,320
and so forth, you know, kind of
protecting the overall

1791
01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:56,000
enterprise.
And so she did.

1792
01:42:56,200 --> 01:43:00,840
And so that was, that was when
we, we decided we couldn't add

1793
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:04,920
another name to the list.
So we we called it Visual

1794
01:43:04,920 --> 01:43:06,520
Terrain.
Yeah.

1795
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:10,360
I remember that change.
So was that set up like like a

1796
01:43:10,360 --> 01:43:15,960
collective or or like a
partnership or what was sort of

1797
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:19,120
the company structure?
It it, it was a partnership and

1798
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:23,800
you know, we were all kind of in
charge of our own little sector,

1799
01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:27,680
but we spilled over.
I could do architectural work.

1800
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:31,800
Anybody could do anything they
wanted to, but that partners

1801
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:36,400
brought in the work and our
compensation was more or less

1802
01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:41,280
tied to the the clients and the
income that we were able to

1803
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:44,480
bring in.
But the as a collective, we were

1804
01:43:44,480 --> 01:43:51,000
paying the salaries of everyone
and the any, any, anything else

1805
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:52,960
that we needed in order to run
business.

1806
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:57,200
Yeah, that makes sense.
So I did that for, you know,

1807
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:04,360
between 91 when I started with,
with Jim and 2010 when I left.

1808
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:07,880
So there was like 20 years,
yeah, of doing that.

1809
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:11,120
And I just decided I wanted to
concentrate on the TV side.

1810
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:16,040
I didn't really want any of the
other corporate responsibilities

1811
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:21,040
that, you know, that I had and,
you know, sharing expenses with

1812
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:24,160
all the other sectors as well.
I just really wanted a few

1813
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:27,520
years, you know, that kind of
the fourth quarter of my career

1814
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:31,440
to run things on a slightly
simpler level.

1815
01:44:31,480 --> 01:44:34,800
So I did that.
I brought one employee with me

1816
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:38,160
and and just kept it, you know,
lean and mean.

1817
01:44:38,360 --> 01:44:41,040
Yeah.
And that's you today still.

1818
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:43,200
So you're.
You're today that one employee

1819
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:48,720
left for for Disney about five
years into the process.

1820
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:54,480
And so right now I'm, I'm doing
it entirely on my own.

1821
01:44:54,480 --> 01:44:58,800
If I need to support help, I
just hire people in buy the job,

1822
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:02,120
which is a much simpler way for
me to operate.

1823
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,200
Yeah.
And you know, I'm, I'm happy

1824
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:07,720
doing it the way I well.
You're not in a, you're not in a

1825
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:11,200
growth mode, like you're not out
there trying to fight everybody

1826
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:13,560
to bring in every account you
can and stuff.

1827
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:15,600
So you don't need a bunch of
employees, right?

1828
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:19,360
You know, So it makes a lot of
sense what what you've done and

1829
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:22,680
what you're doing.
And, and I like it.

1830
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:30,120
I like it a lot.
So, you know, one of the one of

1831
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:33,640
the things that you would know
better than so many people is

1832
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:40,360
just the general evolution of
lighting for TV, for music on

1833
01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:46,040
TV, for live events on TV.
And I mean, obviously cameras,

1834
01:45:46,440 --> 01:45:53,560
obviously going from, you know,
stationary lights to moving

1835
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:58,200
lights and going from moving
lights to better moving lights

1836
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:00,800
and, and better moving lights to
LEDs.

1837
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:07,440
But aside from that, like as far
as the style of lighting and and

1838
01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:10,840
the the skill set involved and
all of that, has that evolved as

1839
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,720
well?
Well, AB absolutely.

1840
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:20,720
I, you know, I think that since
the 90s when this really began

1841
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:24,840
till the, the present day, I
think that the lighting has

1842
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:29,000
gotten a lot more cinematic.
I think that, you know, the

1843
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,320
lighting designers and the and,
and the lighting consultants,

1844
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:37,800
the TV lighting consultants are
much more tied into a cinematic

1845
01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:41,680
kind kind of look.
And the cameras allow us to do

1846
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:45,360
that in order to make things
look a lot more interesting and

1847
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:49,840
not quite so not quite so bland
as they might have been in the

1848
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:52,600
90s when the cameras needed that
much more light.

1849
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:56,680
And I think the style was, you
know, a lot of the lot of the

1850
01:46:56,680 --> 01:47:00,600
directors of photography that
would work on.

1851
01:47:01,480 --> 01:47:05,920
Rock.
Videos were from the commercial

1852
01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:10,880
world where everything is, you
know, or in those days fairly

1853
01:47:10,880 --> 01:47:15,600
flat, fairly even to, you know,
these days when everybody is

1854
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:19,920
looking at the most interesting
cinematography and wanting to

1855
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:24,960
transfer that to to a rock show
when when it's appropriate.

1856
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,480
So I think in in that respect.
And that's something that, you

1857
01:47:28,480 --> 01:47:30,080
know, kind of speaks to me as
well.

1858
01:47:30,080 --> 01:47:35,800
So when I speak to students, I
try to, you know, help them

1859
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:39,360
understand it's not about a
traditional look anymore.

1860
01:47:39,480 --> 01:47:45,440
Somebody, I was just attending a
webinar the other day with a

1861
01:47:45,480 --> 01:47:50,760
cinematographer and somebody
posed a question about soft

1862
01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:58,280
light and what is soft light?
An ineffective way, an

1863
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:03,600
uninteresting way to light
people in in today's day and

1864
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:05,800
age.
And the, the DP said, and I

1865
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:08,800
totally agreed with him.
It's all about where the light

1866
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:12,480
comes from, how you control the
light, how you control the

1867
01:48:12,480 --> 01:48:15,160
shadows.
I talk an awful lot about shadow

1868
01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:19,760
management, you know, when I,
when I teach students and, and

1869
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:26,200
so I think understanding that
developing your eye, I think

1870
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:30,200
that's really what's come a long
way since since the early days.

1871
01:48:30,200 --> 01:48:33,800
It's no longer just a matter of
is there enough light, but how

1872
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:37,000
do you use?
Light, yeah, what about what

1873
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:39,880
about AI?
Is, is AI having any impact yet

1874
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:43,760
on lighting for television?
Like is AI doing any of the

1875
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:47,480
analysis on how much light, how
little light you know, how

1876
01:48:47,480 --> 01:48:50,000
things are going to need to be
done, or is that all still done

1877
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:52,600
by the lighting designer and
you?

1878
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:56,440
Well, I'd be curious to know if
anybody else is using it that

1879
01:48:56,440 --> 01:48:57,320
way.
I'm not.

1880
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:00,720
I haven't really seen the tools
yet.

1881
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:04,760
I know Vectorworks has some
tools that will allow a set

1882
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:10,840
designer to, to say, OK, do do
this set in a modern, modern

1883
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:15,880
way, do this in an Italian, you
know, Renaissance way and, and

1884
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:19,400
the AI will simply just change
it all and suddenly it's a it's,

1885
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:21,720
it's a new look.
I haven't seen anything like

1886
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:24,680
that.
I mean, there's certainly a lot

1887
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:28,760
of computerization when you
think of what we can do with

1888
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:32,480
previz these days, but I haven't
really seen anything that does

1889
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:36,640
either calculations or design
itself.

1890
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:39,520
Yeah.
Are you using AI at all yet?

1891
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:45,200
Like for any kind of even just
fixture mapping or writing or.

1892
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:51,840
Anything.
I've begun using AI for a little

1893
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:54,920
bit for writing, you know, I try
not to rely on it, but sometimes

1894
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:58,840
I just want to think of
something, you know, a different

1895
01:49:58,840 --> 01:50:01,880
way and I'll see what I And I've
just really started doing this,

1896
01:50:02,080 --> 01:50:05,160
yeah, You know, playing around
with it for a little while and

1897
01:50:05,160 --> 01:50:07,000
trying to understand what it can
do.

1898
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:10,320
So I've.
I'm fascinated by it.

1899
01:50:10,320 --> 01:50:13,840
I'm going to get more into it.
I am completely in favor of it.

1900
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:19,960
I don't want it to replace
people, but I think if it's used

1901
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:22,240
properly it won't.
It'll just make us all better.

1902
01:50:23,160 --> 01:50:26,800
Yeah, I think there's certainly
an aspect of that where it does

1903
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:29,440
make us all better.
But I do think that ultimately

1904
01:50:29,440 --> 01:50:34,280
it's going to replace many,
many, many things.

1905
01:50:34,280 --> 01:50:38,360
And how that happens and how
eloquent it is and or how rough

1906
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:40,160
it is when that happens, we'll
see.

1907
01:50:40,480 --> 01:50:44,040
I just think it's another as big
as it is because I think this is

1908
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:47,040
probably the biggest
technological shift that that

1909
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:52,560
man has has witnessed in in
since the beginning of time.

1910
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:57,120
Maybe fire would be the other
one, but but I think that that

1911
01:50:57,120 --> 01:51:02,080
this is that impactful and it's
going to be a wait and see kind

1912
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:04,040
of thing.
It depends on so many people

1913
01:51:04,040 --> 01:51:07,360
doing the right things, you
know, all these, you know,

1914
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:10,880
trillion dollar companies
thinking in our best interests

1915
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:12,760
and stuff.
And that doesn't always work.

1916
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:18,320
And but I just, I see a lot of
opportunities for it to simplify

1917
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:22,840
and streamline a lot of jobs.
You know, when, when I think of

1918
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:26,760
the lines of code that you have
to write to program an MA3

1919
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:31,880
console these days, some of it
is just not work that an LD

1920
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:34,640
who's been being paid a lot of
money should be sitting there

1921
01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:38,160
doing like, I mean, that stuff
that AI can take.

1922
01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:41,600
And that's where I use it the
most is like, sometimes somebody

1923
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:46,160
will send me a document that's
10 pages of a lot of the same

1924
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:49,760
fluff and I'll just feed it into
something and say, you know,

1925
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:53,160
explain this to me like I'm
like, I'm a 6th grader.

1926
01:51:53,160 --> 01:51:56,000
Not just summarize it, but
sometimes it's explain this to

1927
01:51:56,000 --> 01:52:02,160
me like I'm I'm an idiot.
And because I am and, and you

1928
01:52:02,160 --> 01:52:05,680
get really great results from
stuff like that, you know, like

1929
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:08,480
it does a very, very good job
with stuff like that.

1930
01:52:08,480 --> 01:52:12,160
Sometimes I just say, Hey, take
all this information and put it

1931
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:17,880
into a, an 8 by 4 table with
this and this and this and, and

1932
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:20,960
boom, all of the information is
laid out exactly how you want

1933
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:22,360
it.
And it's just like, I'm very

1934
01:52:22,360 --> 01:52:24,400
visual.
So a lot of those types of tools

1935
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:28,200
help me a lot.
But I agree, I've done that too.

1936
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:31,400
I've I've recently had to read
some legal documents and some of

1937
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:33,600
it was just, you know, gibberish
to me.

1938
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:38,120
And it's amazing how AI can
just, you know, break it down,

1939
01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:42,200
give you examples.
So, you know, as as long as you

1940
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,840
can trust it, you know, you
don't want AI to say I think we

1941
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:48,000
should launch the nuclear
missile.

1942
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:52,120
Yeah, Yeah.
That's a great example because

1943
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:56,440
you know it will at some point,
you know, it would like at some

1944
01:52:56,440 --> 01:53:02,480
point, I think we'll all be
guided by AI to a certain extent

1945
01:53:02,480 --> 01:53:06,240
in, in our decision making
process, whether that's driving

1946
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:09,840
or whether that's flying an
airplane or whether that's, you

1947
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:13,320
know, the guy in charge of the
nuclear button or you know,

1948
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:15,200
whatever it is.
Or medical analysis.

1949
01:53:15,200 --> 01:53:18,480
That's a big one.
Well, but that's one that I'm

1950
01:53:18,480 --> 01:53:22,200
super in favor of.
Like, you know, I've had friends

1951
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:25,920
who have done these robotic
surgeries for for like

1952
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:29,440
pancreatic cancer and stuff like
that very successfully.

1953
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:35,680
And so if you ask me, do I want
surgery performed by a robot or

1954
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:39,600
by a human, I'll pick a robot
every time because humans make

1955
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:41,800
mistakes.
Robots don't, you know, as long

1956
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:44,160
as they're programmed properly.
And you would think that they

1957
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:49,000
are by now.
I think medical AI is going to

1958
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:54,760
be probably one of the most
exciting and incredible areas of

1959
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:59,560
AI in the next 5 or 6 years.
Like I, I predict, you know, a

1960
01:53:59,560 --> 01:54:06,560
cure to cancer, Alzheimer's, all
kinds of really, really big

1961
01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:10,760
things that have been plaguing
us for many, many years and with

1962
01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:16,400
no real success as far as cures
or, or even, you know, pathways

1963
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:19,520
to cures.
So because of the ability to

1964
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:23,680
research, like that's where AI
comes in so effectively and

1965
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:26,840
efficiently, as in research, it
can like let's say you have to

1966
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:30,480
go research a project because
you're lighting a, you know, a

1967
01:54:30,480 --> 01:54:36,840
15th century act or something,
whatever it is, and you need to

1968
01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:43,160
do research on that period.
You know, AI can do in 10

1969
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:45,320
minutes what you could do in in
two weeks.

1970
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:49,920
So that's the incredible thing.
That's what I love about it so

1971
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:53,000
much.
But yeah, I mean, it's common.

1972
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:54,080
It's just going to be
interesting.

1973
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:59,000
Like I think for now, there are
commercial roadblocks that are

1974
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:02,880
keeping companies like MA
Lighting from from putting AI in

1975
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:06,880
consoles.
I think that there's going to

1976
01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:10,280
going to be, you know, sort of a
slow move into that.

1977
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:13,040
And then all of a sudden
everybody all at once, because

1978
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:16,000
once somebody sort of cracks the
seal open and says, hey, look,

1979
01:55:16,440 --> 01:55:18,720
you know, because right now
designers are going to fight it,

1980
01:55:19,840 --> 01:55:22,160
especially people who are in
their living programming

1981
01:55:22,160 --> 01:55:25,440
consoles are going to fight it.
And, and so they should, I mean,

1982
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:28,440
you know, you don't want to, you
don't want your rates to go down

1983
01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:32,000
or to lose days or anything
because AI is doing it instead

1984
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:34,520
of you, right, Right.
Exactly, exactly.

1985
01:55:34,520 --> 01:55:37,760
But I mean, can you, can you
then just say to the MA, give me

1986
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:41,000
a stone's cue?
Yeah, yeah.

1987
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:44,240
That's the other thing is, is
the whole copyright and who owns

1988
01:55:44,240 --> 01:55:49,320
the the IP of all of the stuff.
But that's the other problem.

1989
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:53,640
And you can, you can like I use
the music one quite often or one

1990
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:57,800
of the music ones called Suno.
And in SUNO, you can say, you

1991
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:00,840
know, I want something kind of
jazzy, but a little bit Earth,

1992
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:04,200
wind, fire and and, you know, a
little bit of this and a little

1993
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:06,840
bit of that boom, you get that
style now.

1994
01:56:06,840 --> 01:56:10,000
They're not copying songs, but
they're certainly, they're

1995
01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:12,880
certainly pulling some of that
styling into it, you know?

1996
01:56:12,880 --> 01:56:14,120
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

1997
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:18,280
Yeah.
So yeah, I mean, Suno, the music

1998
01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:23,000
one, their new the iPhone app
anyways, I don't know if it does

1999
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:26,440
it on the Android one, but the
iPhone app, you can hum a few

2000
01:56:26,440 --> 01:56:31,480
notes into it or a few bars into
it and then say, now create a

2001
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:36,880
reggae song around that, that
little melody that I just gave

2002
01:56:36,880 --> 01:56:42,800
you and make it in, you know,
whatever beats per minute and in

2003
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:46,480
this style with this type of a
singer and you've got the song.

2004
01:56:46,480 --> 01:56:48,120
I mean, it's just incredible
how.

2005
01:56:48,120 --> 01:56:50,920
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, as much fun as that is,

2006
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:55,560
and I guess it gives us, you
know, gives the world more

2007
01:56:56,160 --> 01:57:02,560
variety of music, Does it take
something away from it does now?

2008
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:04,760
We don't need humans to do that.
Yeah, I know.

2009
01:57:04,760 --> 01:57:06,400
Of course it does.
Of course it does.

2010
01:57:06,400 --> 01:57:08,840
Like it's.
Yeah.

2011
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:11,600
So that's some of the stuff
where I wonder where it's all

2012
01:57:11,600 --> 01:57:14,880
gonna go because, you know, of
course musicians are gonna push

2013
01:57:14,880 --> 01:57:19,040
back on all of that stuff.
But our audiences, like, I don't

2014
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:20,440
know.
I don't know where it all goes.

2015
01:57:20,440 --> 01:57:24,800
And then if, if audiences accept
AI music, well, what happens to

2016
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:27,640
live music now?
Because there's such a massive

2017
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:32,960
need for and and passion and
desire for live music right now

2018
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:37,400
and market for it.
You know, if music is suddenly

2019
01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:41,600
AI robots, you know you're not
going to have unless it's just a

2020
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:45,240
big video screen with cool
visuals and and you're listening

2021
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:49,040
to music in a crowd with a video
screen like that sounds awfully

2022
01:57:49,040 --> 01:57:51,400
boring to me so.
Well, I'll tell you, in 100

2023
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:55,080
years, they're going to be
listening to this podcast and

2024
01:57:55,080 --> 01:57:58,520
probably laughing at us for
knowing so little about.

2025
01:57:58,520 --> 01:58:00,840
What you idiots?
Going to be commonplace in a.

2026
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:02,840
100 years.
Well, by the way, it wouldn't be

2027
01:58:02,840 --> 01:58:05,840
the first time I screwed up a
prediction because you know,

2028
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:09,520
COVID I, I created a, a phrase
called day 91.

2029
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:12,640
I said this is going to be a
nine 90 day problem and what do

2030
01:58:12,640 --> 01:58:15,640
you want your business to look
like in day 91?

2031
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:20,800
And, you know, people threw that
at me for about the next 380

2032
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:23,080
days or something.
You know, it's like, yeah, day

2033
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:24,360
91, huh?
Yeah.

2034
01:58:24,400 --> 01:58:26,840
Well you just said it out loud.
I think everyone else thought it

2035
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:28,680
was just going to be a 90 day
thing too.

2036
01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:32,320
Yeah, well, I say everything out
loud that most people just think

2037
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:35,000
and keep quietly because they're
smart enough not to say it.

2038
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:36,800
Yes, yes.
So show light.

2039
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:38,400
Tell me.
Tell me about show light.

2040
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:41,000
Show light, from what I
understand is sort of get

2041
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:44,320
together of of these really
great minds of the lighting

2042
01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:47,160
business.
Yes, I'm, it was started, you

2043
01:58:47,160 --> 01:58:55,360
know, maybe 25 years ago by some
Brits and they, they do it once

2044
01:58:55,360 --> 01:58:59,520
every four years.
It's kind of a convocation in a

2045
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:02,680
different city.
They've been to several cities

2046
01:59:02,680 --> 01:59:04,840
in Europe.
They did one in New York but I

2047
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:09,120
think they they much prefer
doing it in Europe and they get

2048
01:59:10,640 --> 01:59:15,600
people sort of like a Ted talk.
For lighting designers.

2049
01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:21,920
The format is 3/3.
Lighting designers are on stage

2050
01:59:22,040 --> 01:59:26,800
each give a 20 minute
presentation with or without

2051
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:30,840
visual, but most have some sort
of visual support.

2052
01:59:31,400 --> 01:59:36,800
Then those 3 speakers stay on
stage and they take questions

2053
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:40,440
for about 1/2 an hour and this
happens and then there's a break

2054
01:59:40,440 --> 01:59:43,360
for food and there's some
manufacturers that have tables

2055
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:47,880
that you can visit and then you
go back and you do it again.

2056
01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:51,880
So they bring lighting designers
from all walks of lighting

2057
01:59:51,880 --> 01:59:58,000
design and try to get as many
different, what they call them

2058
01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:00,880
presenting a paper.
But you know, it's this

2059
02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:03,720
presentation on so many
different things.

2060
02:00:03,720 --> 02:00:06,680
So it's been.
Directors, directors of

2061
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:10,160
photography, it's been
theatrical lighting designers

2062
02:00:10,160 --> 02:00:14,960
that have done in, you know, big
Broadway musicals, but in in a

2063
02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:22,080
diner, you know, rock'n'roll
people, BBC lighting directors,

2064
02:00:22,760 --> 02:00:26,800
etcetera, etcetera.
Less architectural, but there is

2065
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:29,440
a little little bit of that.
And somebody from the

2066
02:00:29,440 --> 02:00:32,120
architectural world wanted to
propose a paper.

2067
02:00:32,120 --> 02:00:34,960
They very well could be
accepted.

2068
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:39,120
So it's three days of this at
the end of every day.

2069
02:00:39,160 --> 02:00:42,400
The first day everybody's
matched up with a manufacturer

2070
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:44,760
and they take you out to a
fabulous dinner somewhere in the

2071
02:00:44,760 --> 02:00:47,280
city that you're in.
So far, the ones that I've been

2072
02:00:47,280 --> 02:00:51,200
to have been outside Prague in a
little village about two hours

2073
02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:54,680
out in the Czech Republic
mountains.

2074
02:00:55,960 --> 02:00:59,000
And I went and I went to one in
Florence, Italy, which was

2075
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:01,440
great.
They took a long break because

2076
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:04,320
of the pandemic.
And so they're just doing a new

2077
02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:09,600
one this year in Dijon, France,
couple hours out of Paris.

2078
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:13,200
And so I'm going.
And so, and then there one, one

2079
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:18,080
of the three nights, there's a
big gala reception where

2080
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:22,080
everybody gets together and
people give a few speeches and

2081
02:01:22,880 --> 02:01:26,520
you are encouraged to change
your location from table to

2082
02:01:26,520 --> 02:01:28,000
table to speak to certain
people.

2083
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:31,360
Like if your napkin has a
certain color sticker on the

2084
02:01:31,360 --> 02:01:34,480
bottom of it, you're the one who
is chosen when they ring the

2085
02:01:34,480 --> 02:01:37,400
bell to go to another table.
So everybody gets to talk to

2086
02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:39,040
everyone else.
There are a lot of lighting

2087
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:42,760
celebrities there, Broadway
people, rock'n'roll people, TV,

2088
02:01:42,760 --> 02:01:45,480
etcetera, etcetera.
So I think it's a learning

2089
02:01:45,480 --> 02:01:47,080
experience.
It's fun.

2090
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:49,640
You get to go to a really
interesting city.

2091
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:52,400
They haven't, they break early
one day and take you on a tour

2092
02:01:52,480 --> 02:01:58,760
or the city.
And so it's just really, and so

2093
02:01:59,080 --> 02:02:00,360
it who, who?
Runs it.

2094
02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:03,360
Is it like a not-for-profit or
something?

2095
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:07,760
Yeah, there was a show light
committee that was based in in

2096
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:14,880
the UK and a few of the founders
retired or passed on in the last

2097
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:16,320
few years.
So there's a new group of

2098
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:21,160
people, but it's mostly a
consortium of five or six

2099
02:02:21,320 --> 02:02:28,160
organizers that are based mostly
in the Uka little bit in the US.

2100
02:02:28,160 --> 02:02:31,240
And people just put it all
together from a finding the

2101
02:02:31,240 --> 02:02:35,320
venue standpoint to selecting
all of the people that do the

2102
02:02:35,320 --> 02:02:37,640
presentations.
And so you can imagine.

2103
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:41,280
So you get selected every year.
You're getting or not every

2104
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:42,960
year, but you're getting
selected.

2105
02:02:42,960 --> 02:02:45,000
You don't just raise your hand
and say I want to come.

2106
02:02:45,680 --> 02:02:48,800
No, no, you, oh, you you have to
buy a ticket.

2107
02:02:49,040 --> 02:02:50,680
You OK?
Yeah, yeah.

2108
02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:53,760
So you can go to their website
which is I think show light

2109
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:56,640
hell, I'm not saying.
You, I'm saying you, you Jeff

2110
02:02:56,640 --> 02:02:57,720
Rabbit.
I was.

2111
02:02:57,720 --> 02:03:01,520
I was invited to to do a
presentation last time.

2112
02:03:01,600 --> 02:03:04,880
This time I decided that I
didn't have anything really new

2113
02:03:04,880 --> 02:03:07,880
to contribute more than I did
last time, so.

2114
02:03:07,880 --> 02:03:09,000
You're going just as an
audience.

2115
02:03:09,000 --> 02:03:11,080
I'm just going as an audience
member, a punter.

2116
02:03:11,560 --> 02:03:15,160
Yeah, Exactly, exactly.
Interesting and.

2117
02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:18,400
Is it mostly students and stuff
who are in the audience or?

2118
02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:21,160
No, no.
There are some students.

2119
02:03:21,280 --> 02:03:26,520
There are some students, but it
really runs the full spectrum of

2120
02:03:26,520 --> 02:03:30,880
student to geezer.
And how how many people are in

2121
02:03:30,880 --> 02:03:33,240
the audience?
3 or 400?

2122
02:03:33,560 --> 02:03:35,160
Oh wow.
Yeah, interesting.

2123
02:03:35,160 --> 02:03:41,200
I'd say probably closer to 300.
And yeah, I mean all the

2124
02:03:41,200 --> 02:03:44,320
manufacturers, all the kingpins
of the manufacturing, you know,

2125
02:03:44,320 --> 02:03:48,800
companies, it's always sponsored
by one of the big manufacturers.

2126
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:52,080
So this year I believe it's
being sponsored by Juliet

2127
02:03:52,080 --> 02:03:53,840
because they're they're in
France.

2128
02:03:54,880 --> 02:03:57,880
And when we were in the, the
Czech Republic, it was Roe Bay,

2129
02:03:57,880 --> 02:04:02,200
of course, you know, and, and
then Clay Paki when we were in

2130
02:04:02,200 --> 02:04:06,880
Italy.
So, so you know that they sort

2131
02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:10,400
of inject the flavor of their,
you know, their own style and

2132
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:14,160
their company into the the
overall event, but all the

2133
02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:16,920
others are there as well.
Interesting.

2134
02:04:17,320 --> 02:04:22,680
And then you know the, the
little lobby manufacturing

2135
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:27,680
tables, manufacturers tables are
much more intimate than you

2136
02:04:27,680 --> 02:04:31,640
would get at LDI, which is so,
so much busier.

2137
02:04:31,800 --> 02:04:35,480
So you have good one-on-one
time, you're only out there for

2138
02:04:35,480 --> 02:04:38,920
about 20 minutes and then you're
back inside the auditorium for

2139
02:04:38,920 --> 02:04:42,040
another set of presentations
after they have applied you with

2140
02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:45,400
food and drink during the break.
It sounds fun, I'm going to have

2141
02:04:45,400 --> 02:04:48,360
to check it out probably.
Not in May.

2142
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:56,480
Yeah, go to showlight.org and,
you know, give it a try.

2143
02:04:56,520 --> 02:04:59,560
Yeah, it's a Dijon France, but
wow, it's fun.

2144
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:04,000
Sounds sounds amazing.
And the other thing that I

2145
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:07,320
wanted to get to before we leave
because we're getting pretty

2146
02:05:07,320 --> 02:05:10,240
long in the tooth here, you and
me talkers.

2147
02:05:12,160 --> 02:05:15,840
So I know that you've been big
on, on helping people, not only

2148
02:05:15,840 --> 02:05:20,560
through education, where, where
you've been extremely giving of

2149
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:22,640
your time.
You're, you're always involved

2150
02:05:22,640 --> 02:05:26,920
in these things where you're
either speaking or you're, you

2151
02:05:26,920 --> 02:05:29,680
know, you're, you're teaching
somewhere something.

2152
02:05:30,840 --> 02:05:32,960
So it doesn't shock me that
you're going to show like,

2153
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:35,400
because it's another one of
those types of events.

2154
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:40,440
But I know you also get involved
in more structured charities and

2155
02:05:40,440 --> 02:05:42,680
things too, right?
Yes, yes.

2156
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:48,160
And there there are a couple
that I really love.

2157
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:55,320
Feeding America is a national
organized food bank that has

2158
02:05:56,840 --> 02:06:02,320
contributed a lot to all of the
the United States based

2159
02:06:02,520 --> 02:06:07,400
disasters over many, many years.
They were very instrumental in

2160
02:06:07,400 --> 02:06:10,120
helping out along with, you
know, World Central Kitchen and

2161
02:06:10,120 --> 02:06:15,480
so forth when we had the recent
wildfires here in Los Angeles

2162
02:06:15,480 --> 02:06:18,320
that were so devastating.
Food Bank, which does things on

2163
02:06:18,320 --> 02:06:23,480
a much more local level here in
in Los Angeles for the many

2164
02:06:23,560 --> 02:06:28,640
homeless people that, you know,
really benefit greatly from

2165
02:06:28,640 --> 02:06:34,840
their generosity and outreach.
And then there's also on North

2166
02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:38,720
Hollywood, the North Hollywood
Food Bank that I occasionally go

2167
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:42,800
in and, and do some cooking for.
Oh, wow, that's cool.

2168
02:06:42,880 --> 02:06:44,480
Good for you.
Yeah, Yeah.

2169
02:06:44,720 --> 02:06:47,760
So I, you know, for a couple.
Of years when my son was really

2170
02:06:47,760 --> 02:06:52,400
young, I used to take him and my
business partner at the time and

2171
02:06:52,640 --> 02:06:56,000
his two kids and we'd throw them
in the back of the pickup truck.

2172
02:06:56,000 --> 02:06:59,280
And we'd go to one of the
churches, would make Turkey

2173
02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:02,680
dinners in a box.
And we'd go load up with like,

2174
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:06,040
you know, 2-3 hundred of these
Turkey dinners in the back of

2175
02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:08,520
the truck.
And the kids would just jump out

2176
02:07:08,520 --> 02:07:10,960
and go door to door and hand out
all these Turkey dinners.

2177
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:15,040
And we'd drive around, you know,
I don't know what you call them,

2178
02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:18,840
but less advantage neighborhoods
or whatever.

2179
02:07:19,280 --> 02:07:22,600
And you know, they just knock on
the door and say, hey, do you

2180
02:07:22,600 --> 02:07:25,160
want Thanksgiving dinner?
And they'd be like, Oh my God,

2181
02:07:25,160 --> 02:07:28,480
yes.
And you know, they'd they'd.

2182
02:07:28,720 --> 02:07:31,120
And I loved it.
I always said, I want to get way

2183
02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:33,800
more involved in this stuff.
And then life grabs you and you

2184
02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:37,400
get busy and of course, but you
know, I say if everybody does it

2185
02:07:37,400 --> 02:07:41,080
when they can, then then we've.
Got it much more covered.

2186
02:07:41,080 --> 02:07:44,240
And, you know, food insecurity
is just heartbreaking in this

2187
02:07:44,240 --> 02:07:49,600
country where so many have so
much and so many don't that, you

2188
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:51,520
know, I think we can even score
a little bit.

2189
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:53,680
Yeah.
No, it's so true.

2190
02:07:53,920 --> 02:07:58,560
You know it's Tony.
Robbins I think it's a bad rap

2191
02:07:58,560 --> 02:08:01,920
from a lot of people in our
industry because supposedly he,

2192
02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:05,040
he walks away without fully
paying the bill occasionally,

2193
02:08:05,400 --> 02:08:12,080
but but he's done so much for
feeding, you know, people and

2194
02:08:12,080 --> 02:08:15,320
like he's, I can't remember what
number he's at now, but

2195
02:08:15,320 --> 02:08:17,560
something like 100 million
meals.

2196
02:08:18,360 --> 02:08:23,360
You know, he's got like this
mission to to hand out a billion

2197
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:25,880
meals and he's like over 100
million or something.

2198
02:08:25,880 --> 02:08:28,800
And I'm probably way off on all
these numbers, but it's just an

2199
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:32,240
enormous number that you're
going like really that many.

2200
02:08:32,280 --> 02:08:35,520
And so, you know, he's
constantly.

2201
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:37,680
Collecting money from.
His billionaire friends and

2202
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:40,160
stuff to pay for this stuff.
And, you know, it's hard to

2203
02:08:40,160 --> 02:08:43,280
believe, like you said in, you
know, as much money as there is

2204
02:08:43,280 --> 02:08:45,920
flying around right now, it's
hard to believe that people are

2205
02:08:45,920 --> 02:08:48,600
starving, you know, that people
don't know where they're getting

2206
02:08:48,600 --> 02:08:49,760
their next meal from.
So.

2207
02:08:50,000 --> 02:08:51,480
Yeah.
And how awful is that?

2208
02:08:51,960 --> 02:08:56,640
Yeah, it's always an incredibly.
Important thing so.

2209
02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:58,960
Thank you for being so
charitable and taking care of

2210
02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:00,560
some of that stuff.
Yeah, yeah.

2211
02:09:00,640 --> 02:09:04,600
And we're talking about it.
We're at two hours, so I think

2212
02:09:04,600 --> 02:09:07,360
we got.
To go, but I I appreciate you so

2213
02:09:07,360 --> 02:09:09,200
much, Jeff.
I could sit and talk to you and

2214
02:09:09,200 --> 02:09:12,240
listen to you for hours on end.
I, I think you're one of the

2215
02:09:12,240 --> 02:09:17,440
nicer people in our industry.
I'm super glad to to have you as

2216
02:09:17,440 --> 02:09:20,800
a friend and to be able to talk
to you occasionally and love

2217
02:09:20,800 --> 02:09:22,440
seeing you at trade shows and
stuff.

2218
02:09:22,440 --> 02:09:26,160
And and I'm just glad you're
still working and, you know,

2219
02:09:26,160 --> 02:09:29,520
you're not like we don't have to
set up a GoFundMe for Jeff

2220
02:09:29,520 --> 02:09:31,960
Rabbits.
You know, that would suck.

2221
02:09:32,680 --> 02:09:35,280
Yeah, well, thanks, Marcel.
I mean, you're, you're great to

2222
02:09:35,280 --> 02:09:37,440
talk to as well.
And, and a really great

2223
02:09:37,440 --> 02:09:38,040
interviewer.
I.

2224
02:09:38,040 --> 02:09:42,640
Enjoyed this a lot, and yeah, I
I, I've enjoyed all your other

2225
02:09:42,640 --> 02:09:45,000
podcasts as well.
Oh well, thank you so much.

2226
02:09:45,000 --> 02:09:46,720
We're going to have to do it
again though, because we didn't

2227
02:09:46,720 --> 02:09:51,440
even talk about Morpheus.
And you've been the most loyal

2228
02:09:51,440 --> 02:09:55,120
Morpheus user of any Morpheus
user, I think, ever.

2229
02:09:55,640 --> 02:09:59,720
And and so, you know, that's a
whole story unto itself.

2230
02:09:59,720 --> 02:10:01,080
So we'll save it for the next
one.

2231
02:10:01,360 --> 02:10:03,000
Cool.
So thank you.

2232
02:10:03,040 --> 02:10:05,760
And and you have a great rest of
your week.

2233
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:07,000
You too.
You too.

2234
02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:08,040
Thanks, friends.
I'll be well.

2235
02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:08,840
All right.
See ya.