#288 - Seth Jackson

0:00 What can I say episode #288 with Seth Jackson is in the bag and Seth loved the guy. Just a super guy. Saw him a month ago at LDI and love talking to him any chance I get. And so if you don't know Seth, he's worked with tons and tons of great artists out. This past couple of years with The Doobie Brothers still does Barry Manilow after all of these years. And just one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. So I hope you enjoy episode #288 with Seth Jackson. And don't forget to like and share and subscribe, please. And thank you. Enjoy.

0:41 Well, thanks again for joining me on Geese of Gear episode #288 a fun one today. This episode is brought to you by AVL Media Group. AVL is one of the leading distributors of professional audio, video, and lighting equipment in North America. Please take just a moment and watch their following video with me. AVL Media Group connecting the world's most trusted audio brands with professionals like you. From their large diaphragm studio or versatile handheld live performance mics, fast and microphones deliver clarity and precision. Lab Group and Power amplifies the world from commercial installs to the biggest tours.

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3:47 We're popping again, folks, 288. We're popping these episodes out and I'm really enjoying it. We got some great guests coming. And actually Sarah just told me this morning about a guest that is in the process of confirming right now. I will tell you, we've probably been trying to get this person on the podcast for five years, you know, since the very beginning. And this I can almost guarantee we'll immediately become by far the largest podcast we've ever done. It's a big one. So Sarah told me this morning that we are in the process of confirming we do have a definite yes.

4:28 It's just a matter of working out the timing at this point. So I'm really excited. Sorry I can't tell you more, but I will soon. Secondly, and very exciting, we have a new podcast that we're launching, which will be coming in a few weeks. The first episode will be coming in a few weeks. It's called Geezers of Gear Future Tech, and the hosts on this podcast, neither one will be myself nor Sarah. These are new people you'll see and they'll be discussing new technology, product launches, industry press announcements and more. So watch for that. That's coming very soon. As I said, in a few weeks, I believe at least in the beginning, that's going to be an audio only podcast. It's going to be. Short, it'll probably be.

5:10 I don't know, 20-30 minutes, maybe an hour at most, but my guess is it'll probably stick around half hour. And it's going to be all about new gear and new gear, new news, new information. And so stick around for that one. That's going to be great. We'll be promoting it in the next week or two. And again, that's called Geezes of Gear, Future Tech. So now we have 3 podcasts. We have Geezes of Gear. This one, we have Geezes of Gear, the leading ladies, which Sarah is the boss of, She's the boss of me. And then we have future tech, which will be starting in a few weeks. And finally, please, please like and subscribe and share these podcasts. As I say all the time, it's the only way that we grow.

5:52 It's the it's good for our sponsors, it's good for our guests, and it's just good that you share this with your friends. We're getting so much positive response right now. We're getting great reviews, lots of good comments. We appreciate it so much. But if you can engage more and like and share and subscribe and do all of those things on whatever medium you're listening to them on, whether it's Spotify or it's YouTube or Apple or whatever. And we appreciate you for doing that very, very much. Love today's guest. Good friend of mine. Just saw him in Las Vegas about a month ago. Seth Jackson has twice won the Parnelli Award for Set Design of the Year, the Redden Award for Lighting Design of the Year, the Broadway World Los Angeles for Lighting Design of the Year and the Paul Waterbury Award for International Distinction in Architecture in 2024.

6:52 Seth Seth was the lighting and production designer for The Doobie Brothers Tour 2024 and the lighting designer for Labyrinth in Concert, as well as production designing the final shows for country icon Toby Keith Before his untimely death in March of 2024, Sadly on Broadway, Seth directed and designed Manilow on Broadway at the Saint James Theatre in Los Angeles. He Co designed with Def Creuter the lighting for Harmony at the Amundsen Amundsen Amundsen in Saint Louis. He designed lighting for the Rep, the Muni and the New Jewish Theater. He was the creative director and production designer for two Selena Gomez World Tours, 25 years with Barry Manilow, and as associate director and production designer for Star Wars in concert with industry legend Steve Cohen.

7:47 Seth also served for 20 years as production designer for Toby Keith, 3 tours, as production designer for Carrie Underwood, and lighting designs for Don Henley, Jason Mraz, Melissa Etheridge, American Idols Live, Hilary Duff, America's Got Talent Live and The Doobie Brothers in Las Vegas. He was creative director and production designer for Manolo Music. Please. That's a lot. I mean, that's a lot. It's a lot to say. It's a lot to take in. It's a lot for him to have done. And by the way, I don't think Seth is a geezer. He says he is, but I don't think he is. So please welcome my friend Seth Jackson back to the podcast. Seth, hello.

8:30 It's so darn good to see you again, back again. Last time I saw you, you were leaving the hotel, I think, to go to the airport in Vegas. It's true you left the same morning as I, but I think a little earlier if I. Remember correctly, Yeah, we were, yeah, we were going to try to put something together and it's like No, 10 year 12, whatever it was. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't want to spend an extra 2 hours at the airport. God, it's such a pain in the ass flying anymore. Like with or without status. Don't understand it. I have everything. Yeah I am cleared. I am global checked, I am pre checked. I am lounged up and I still hate it. Yeah, well, and I'm not some of those things anymore, like lounges. I'm realizing that, you know, 'cause I have platinum for life with American Airlines and I feel like I've got some of those, you know, sort of carry on ones 'cause I don't travel as much as I used to.

9:23 So I'm not like, you know, these extreme levels anymore, but I'm for life on a few of these airlines and you don't get anything for that anymore. Like you're going to be mega, super triple platinum something or other. Whatever Featherstone is, that's what you need to be. And even if you have the D1, there's so many people in line to get in. It's like, I want a quaint life of this. It's. Insane. And you know, like I used to fly United religiously because I had whatever platinum or something on United and before that American and Delta at one point because I had the black Amex and black Amex with Delta made you a super famous. And now none of it matters.

10:06 It's just I, you know, I think on United I used to get upgraded almost every flight domestically, almost every single flight. I can't even tell you the last time they upgraded me. Can't even tell you I can't. Same with American, never. It's stupid. I don't like flying anymore. I don't like it. So I'm trying to catch up on stuff that happened in Vegas that we talked about in Vegas first. Did you see anything cool in Vegas other than, you know, the geez of gear Dining with dinosaurs event? Did you see anything else? You know, I honestly didn't.

10:48 I saw some interesting. I saw interesting things. Yeah, I did think Elation kind of reinvented the the fixture and then the assembly with that Paragon thing. I thought Paragon is? Cool. I thought that was really a very inventive way. I mean, Matthias is just, his brain blows my mind anyway. And anything he comes up with is going to be like. He's a smart dude. Of course you should have. Done it that way all these years and. Now you. Yeah, well, then I saw yesterday like I just saw some teaser videos for another new line from Elation called Rebel series. So I guess Rebel and the rebel is like sort of the down and dirty, real tough, cheaper stuff and the paragon is the more high end stuff.

11:36 And but the rebel series stuff looked pretty cool too, from what I saw. So yeah, they're making some really good moves, those guys. I I like Telation as well. So, but I mean, a lot of the stuff that was excited about, I was excited about before I got there. I already, you know, I'd already had a great year with Clay Paki. So all those stuff was like, guess there it is. It's great. I love it. Yeah, yeah. What are you using from them? The MIDI BFBIFXS, the rings, the ones that have the rings on the park Cam looking things. We did about 60 of them on The Doobie Brothers. OK, it was the wash line. It was the only wash line and. Is that the one that looks like a park in? Yes.

12:20 OK. Which was the intent of the vibe for the show. Yeah, that's a great idea, yeah. And the rings were way more than just a gimmick. I, I really, when we got into it, I was kind of like, well, OK, these will be cool for a couple of things. But it was unbelievable. They just, the whole rig just sort of was organically alive. You know, you'd throw some video content through the rings and it would just morph around and do things and yeah, which was great because we were a little to no smoke show. So having the rig be all alive and moving really kind of helped fill up the picture. The band didn't like smoke or No no no. Well, the wives didn't like the smoke.

13:02 Oh really? Never heard that one before. That's an interesting spin on things the wives didn't like. There was some rough days, I think, in previous years when you know the wife standing on the side of the stage to watch the show. It's just. Blasted in the face. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good, yeah. So there was there was some dance that had to be done and we finally settled on machines in faraway places. So it was never thick, it was just a very light. Thing that tour started out as like a what, the 50th anniversary, right? And then it end up like the 52nd or something. Well, OK, so it was the 50th anniversary in 2020. Yeah. Which of course it didn't happen right then.

13:43 It didn't happen in 21. It finally got out in 22 and then it toured for 2 1/2 years so. Yeah. 53rd and 1/2. Yeah, it's 50 something. It's full grown, right? The full grown tour. Right. So last year they just gave up all that stuff and just called it the 2024 tour. And yeah, that's when we redid the the system. And then it'll go out again later this year. They actually have a new record coming, if you can believe that. First time. I think it's the first time ever with Tom Johnston, the original member of the band, and Michael McDonald, because they were different eras. Yeah. So they're actually together on this. One and Michael toured with it. Yes, wow. Yeah, that are terrific.

14:23 That were terrific. I really wanted to see it and it just never seemed to be in the same town I was in, so yeah. I think that you'll have another round this summer. I think they're gonna do all the secondary stuff here, there and everywhere in the summertime. They'll just go, I mean. I have great memories of, of The Doobie Brothers because like when I was 16 years old and thought I was a genius and quit school and went on the road with a rock band. And I went on the road for three or four months I think. And then that band broke up and I got back home and my mom said, OK, well you don't want to go to school, you better get a job. And so I went to work for this company in Calgary, Canada that produced farm equipment and I worked in the parts department.

15:04 So it wasn't a very mindful job. You didn't have to think much. It was like, I need 4 bolts. Here you go. And but I got picked up every morning by Julius Krolick and John Fenton and they were always about 3 joints in by the time they picked me up in the car. And it was just, it was like the Cheech and Chong thing where they roll down the windows and clouds of smoke just come flying out of the car. And every morning it was Doobie brothers. And you know, they were The Doobie Brothers too, you know, because they were just pounding doobies all the way to work and. And yeah, so I have fond memories of the doobies, so I don't know what's going on with Riverside.

15:47 Today is freaking out a little bit. You froze for a second but I never I never lost audio if that's any help. Weird, weird things happened. Stayed. Well, I said it lost communication with my camera for some reason. So what else at the show? So the Clay Paki stuff. Clay Paki stuff is great. Again, stuff that I've been working on all year. I was really happy to see Avo has the mid range size of their of their D9 consoles. They got the D9 and then the 250 and others that the middle version that's finally coming online. They've been talking about it forever and they did it and they look great. They're a mid range affordable size wise, price wise, all that stuff.

16:27 Are you using the D9? I was pushed into it last fall. I did a residency in Vegas for Erica Jane. It was one of the housewives of Beverly Hills. She had a big A show. It was in House of Blues at Mandalay Bay. Their in house desk was AVO. So I was like, well, what do I do about that? So I went to Gateway and Mikey Cummings over there was like, well, I can teach you the AVO. You're going to love the thing. You're never going to want to be on another desk in your life. I'm like, all right, let's go. And we did. And I agreed. It's just, it was so much fun to do a different platform. And it's intuitive and it's, it's an old person's desk. It, it doesn't require a lot of flow charts and mathematics. And I have to build things myself. It's not MA at all.

17:16 Yeah, still pretty easy to learn, very easy to learn. And it's kind of like, well, I want it to do this. Well, then tell it to do that and it will wow. And that's which is great. And so when we finished the Erica thing, we started talking about doobies and it was like, well, you know, Gateway's got these desks, let's let's really go for it. So I jumped in. We did the AI servers, we did the whole thing. And they behaved. Yeah, the desks were flawless. The desks were flawless. The AI took a little learning curve a bit. What is that? What does that do? That's. Their media server, OK, right. Yeah, I've seen that before. You know, is it is a console driven server.

17:58 So it's a different brain wave, if you will. It wants the desk to tell it what to do. It does not want to just receive a code to fire or a queue to fire. It wants the desk to really say you will do this now and do this now, which we ran into some just it wasn't really a problem so much as an evolution to figure out how to do it to where that the time coding that was coming in that that would take the priority over the desk. So, you know, it was kind of like, no matter what they do, the song starts, that thing fires. Is that the same thing that does? I remember Steve Warren demoed something to me in Europe one time or in England that everything became a pixel.

18:44 So you could have like moving lights, like 8 moving lights next to a video panel, next to 8 in spots next to 8, whatever and everything is just a pixel. It's actually the reverse of that. It's everything is a light is the way it's they determine. They determine. That's the actual training thing they use. This is the thing you got to get in your brain is that everything's a lot. Yeah, so video panel is a light. Acts like a light. If I want to I do something on the screen. I still treat it as if it's a lighting fixture. So you do interesting, you do beam is your clips and you know, yeah, interesting. Zoom is zoom and everything again, everything is a fixture. So yeah, that was great for my old. Old brain. Yeah.

19:26 Well, you know, it's, it's funny because I still like if you follow any of the forums and stuff on Facebook, which you know, is generally just cancerous, you know, diatribe. But why? Is this in the picture? Yeah. Oh, hey, is is the LD for Barry Manilow out there? Can you tell me what is the square fixture? And, you know, and it's like, why? What are you going to use it on? Nothing. Nothing. I'm just sitting in my bedroom in my underwear and wondering what that square light is, you know? I could pass me the LD for three weeks. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I hey, it's great to have those forms. And stuff. Sometimes there's really great things. Sometimes there is. And and you know, I love it when like Bonnie all gets on there and just does some eloquent three or five, you know, just it takes minutes to read kind of thing where it's like that's that's the stuff you would have killed for when you got started in the game.

20:16 Well, or Bob Harmon's been posting his Thursday things on there too, you know, that are like 12 pages long. Just a short one for you today. And but that guy is a writer. Oh my God, Bob. Bob missed his his calling. But yeah, so I saw, I see on there occasionally that somebody will bring up AD 9 and it's just kind of sloughed off as being the hog 5 or something. It's like it's. Nobody uses that. I think the biggest thing for them is for the longest time they were just the little small company guys other than outside the UK and Europe. But, you know, now that they're handled through Roby, I think that's going to open. Up a lot of you know their.

21:01 Manufacturing will get faster and better and yeah, all of that will. Help. I'm sure it already has, like I'm sure there's been so many changes from a manufacturing standpoint already, you know, and the. Midline console, you know you're talking 20 grands to 60 grands, so really starts to become and that's. I thought it's what they were aiming for. I don't want to pee their press agent. Wow, knowing what I'm. Talking about, I mean, if it's anywhere near that, that's where it needs to be. Like I this is one thing that nobody can answer for me. Like how did consoles jump from 20 grand to 80, like virtually overnight? When and how did that happen? I missed that memo. You know, like, OK, yes, it's a lot more advanced and it does a lot more stuff, and it's probably much more expensive to support. And, you know, software updates are free and they're very hard to do and cost a lot of money.

21:51 Yeah, but still you are paying for the free visualizers and stuff that they put out on the website. Yeah. Still a lot of dough. It's a lot of dough for us. It's a huge lay down. Yeah, them and them in the audio console guys seem to be fighting over who has the most expensive control setup, you know, and it's it's close now. It's getting closer anyways, although you know, every time Digico comes out with the new Quantum, yes or whatever, it's like, you know, $175,000 or something. But so yeah, I, I took a good look at those consoles as well. I didn't, I never did go into the, the secret room. And I'm sure you can't tell me what was in there because I think everyone had to sign NDA's, but supposedly there was something in the secret room there. Speaking of secret rooms, did you go in the Verilite 1? I did.

22:37 I did. Any thoughts you'd care to share? I like the idea. I like where they're going. I think there's real potential there. To me, it felt like you remember years ago when they did the the icon M Yeah, it felt like that. It's like the idea is so good and the direction is so right, but it's. Just not have you listened to my podcast or something? Because that's pretty much the exact same thing I said. Like it's. I always listen to your podcast. You can see it's the journey, not the destination. Exactly. It's an incredible step in the right direction. Is it a gotta need, gotta have, need it right now kind of thing? No. No, but I get the, you know, the need to get it in front of people and then you need somebody with some capital to put it in so they can figure out the real world. Stuff on it, yeah.

23:24 That's what you got to do this, but that I thought it was a smart move to put it in a backroom. Yeah. Just so that it's not. Like a demo, though I got to be honest, I didn't like the demo. I didn't. I didn't like the narration. I just didn't like the demo. The demo to me was just kind of goofy, but I definitely saw a huge amount of promise. It's something that needed to be done. You know, it's, it's exciting. I mean, it's gonna be exciting to see where we go. I'm, I'm excited to see what happens with technology going forward, especially once you unleash AI on, on these fixtures and consoles. And, and that's what that's gonna look like. That's what's gonna make that so manageable is when you combine the AI technology and the it's going to get crazy.

24:09 But we're moving so slow on that. And I don't know if that's because everyone's scared, you know, like MA is scared to put any kind of AI into the console because people will, people will say we're not using this anymore. We're going to start, you know, banning this from our shows and stuff, which I get it, I understand that sentiment completely, but it's common. It is, it is. It's just, and the the technology is getting so complicated that you just can't programming is not going to be what programming is. Or was it just they're putting so much into the fixtures and the control levels of the video content, not, you know, it's going to require help. Yeah, Yeah.

24:52 Well, and that was one of my predictions and it's, it's a fairly well fed prediction. I've talked to lots of engineers, but I think we're going to see AI and fixtures probably brought on board a lot faster than in the consoles. Consoles. I think we're going to see some of the stuff where you don't need a programmer standing next to you all the time and you can just talk to the console and say, you know, remember that look we did on you know, so and so last year? Let's have that look, but in in blue instead of red or whatever. And the console will do that, you know, And so that's where I think we're going to see a lot of the earliest AI in consoles is just some of that voice to voice to, to get it done kind of thing, right.

25:39 And the interesting you said about putting the stuff in the into the fixtures themselves, that's kind of interesting, you know, because that's sort of like the rollback to the olden days, you know, in verilite, the brain was in the fixture and the Casa just said, hey, do that. And then the light knew how to do that. Yeah. I think lights are going to become completely 100% console agnostic. Consoles are basically going to say go to the light and the lights going to do some stuff. And I think a lot of the macros will be built into the lights instead of the console. And you know, I just, I, I see a lot of the brains moving into the lights. That's, that's just what I see happening.

26:19 I could be wrong. I've been wrong so many thousands of times. Well, that's what we need, isn't it? We need to get there. Anything else that you saw that was cool? Let me see. What about the big huge DLP thing? I'm sure you've got a stadium show for for Manilow. Manilow's going to need a hundred of those on a stadium show somewhere. Yeah, don't believe that would be the case, but we if Toby was still with us, I guarantee you we would have found a place. For him that. 'D be amazing because I remember we used to be in the heyday when Ford was paying all the bills. We were so sinker, light heavy. It was like, how many can we have till we run out of power? That was.

27:00 Yeah, I saw that. That's the first thing I thought I was like, oh man, is this Toby? We're still around. That's what we'd be looking to do. Toby was kind of, you know, that on that George Strait path, you know, like absolutely bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, more, you know, and he had to you. Know he had the catalog to back it up and he had the live show to back it up and yeah, nobody went away disappointed from a Toby. Show. I'm sure that's an artist you miss a whole lot. Dude, I miss the organization, too. Yeah, those were just some of the most enjoyable people to be around. I look forward to that every year. I always joke. Just like I'm going to summer camp for two weeks. Yeah, to put that thing together. Well, I think I recall during Covidity. Yeah, I think I recall during COVID.

27:41 You telling me that they kept you on payroll or something too? They kept all the band and the key crew guys on payroll and benefits because they're all salaried people with benefits and all that. So you kept them on through through that and through his cancer, right? For us, when Nate and I were doing that show, we were right in the middle of getting over the hump of the approved design and to help us out to help the scenery companies out to help her. They're like, you do as much as you can as far as you can, and we'll pay you until we get to that point where the next step would be rehearsals and then we have to stop. Wow. Yeah, It's a great organization. When was your last show with Toby? It was December of last year, 2023. Wow, it's been that recent.

28:26 Yeah, he died in March of 24. Yeah, February, March. Can't remember. What a drag. So we did those last three in Vegas and I, it was a very strange thing because we thought that they were gearing up for his big return, that they were looking at a Vegas residency because they kept saying, you know, we're going to do this. What, whatever we need to do, let's do it. And so we've spent an awful lot of money for three shows. Looking back now, I don't think anybody else knew, but I think he knew. And it was like, I'm going out, I'm going to go out. That makes sense. Yeah, it was *. Studded to early 50s. He was 60s I'm 63. I didn't realize he was that old. I thought he was 50s.

29:09 I think I could be totally wrong on that. Yeah, yeah, that's a bummer. What about have you used Mac ones yet? And I talk about these way too often, but I just love that thing. And I finally saw it in real life and I love it even more. No, I am. When I got to pick it up and stuff like it weighs nothing. It's just such a cool light. I like things that weigh nothing. It weighs like, I don't know, 9 lbs or something like that. I mean, literally you can pick it up with one hand. It's it's cheap. Like I think the dealer on them is like 1400 bucks or something. Oh, it is. And they've got all kinds of really cool accessories and stuff. I like that fixture. What else did I like? What about the Acme stand was interesting? They've got some interesting stuff. I learned a little bit about it when I had Mark Brickman on and Acme was actually a sponsor of that podcast and we talked a bit about their fixtures and stuff.

30:06 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, some of the Chinese booths looked really good companies that I had never heard of before. And I'm going, whoa, that stuff looks. Pretty nice, as cheesy as they have in the. Past, that's true. No, they used to just be sticks of trust and a bunch of Asian people sitting there trying to take orders. Right now they're like all dressed up with nice logo shirts and very professional looking booths that they're hiring designers to do their booths and stuff. So yeah, they've stepped up their game a bit. Some of those brands, well, you know, it's funny, I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about this and you know, the whole direct to consumer model from China right now is becoming quite a problem, especially for any of the call it Chinese brands. You know, the Chauvets and even elation and stuff because these guys are literally just selling at lowball prices directly to anyone and user rental company whatever through Amazon and or Facebook marketplace.

31:08 Even, you know, directly on Facebook marketplace and you know, this stuff, you got to get a lot of spares. But otherwise it looks pretty good. Like you can get a fixture that probably looks as good as that clay packy fixture that you used and looks just like it, I'm sure, and costs about, you know, 1/5 of the price, maybe even less. And so you just get, you know, 50% more fixtures so that you've got lots of spares, that's all. And and when don't try. To fix it, just throw it away. Don't fix it. Yeah, just walk them out to the dumpster and maybe there's a recycling bin so you can at least be responsible, you know? But yeah, so I don't know who knows what that the future of that side of the business, the lower end stuff, I don't know. It's it looks like it's going to be a bit of a shit fight for a while now.

31:58 So yeah. Have you done any touring stuff at all this year or just other things? No. Well, OK, so I did. The big thing was The Doobie Brothers. That was pretty much an all year affair. Yeah, I did one small project for it's Labyrinth, the David Bowie movie from the 80s, right. So they did a live band version of that where the film is on above you on the screen. That's interesting. The. Band plays to the belly vocals and the whole bit. And the band's just a cover band, like Yeah of session musicians that they threw together. Nine session guys and they all, it's a very small show. It's kind of fun. I had 11 fixtures plus some, plus some house stuff that you advance.

32:41 But there were 11 lights and there was one bus and one big trailer and all. It toured. It toured what? Movie theaters? Yeah. No, it played like small theaters. It's still going. It's gonna go all through the spring and try to go in and dress it up a little bit in the spring and bring it up just a touch. But it was really fun to go back and say, all right, there's 11, make it work, so it's 11 fixtures. It's the whole movie and just the concert parts of the movie. They the band. Plays, they said the whole thing with, you know, they're playing live the whole time underneath it and. That's really interesting. And the fans of that film are, they're quite devoted. Yeah, rabid.

33:24 They show up in costume and oh, really? Oh, they had a ball. They all have a ball. They. Sort of like Rocky Horror. Pictures a little bit like that. They don't throw things at the screen, but yeah, you know, there isn't. There's a. It's funny because the first time you hear Bowie's vocal and see him on screen, there's just gasped through the room. Yeah, the Bowie eyes are just like. I remember when I was when I was like a teenager and I think the first time I ever did mushrooms or something. I think I I went to a double thing it was I think it was Woodstock 1st and Rocky Horror Picture Show 2nd and Woodstock started at like 10 and Rocky Horror at midnight. That's a good time.

34:06 It was just like, yeah, I was like, what the. And I had never seen Rocky Horror before, you know, And I was on mushrooms and just go, what is happening right now? Like, who are these people? What's wrong with them? So yeah, it was pretty weird. If you really pay attention, this movie is not very. Good. It's terrible What is happening. What's it about? I don't know. Yeah, there were a lot of movies like that back in those days, You know, have you ever noticed, like half the shows and movies from then you couldn't do today, like. Oh no. I used to be a huge Archie Bunker All in the Family fan and I see clips of it now like you'll see clips on Instagram or. Facebook or whatever.

34:48 I'm thinking, Oh my God, if people saw this now, they'd lose their minds. How did you get that done? Yeah, it's, it's pretty wild. So you did that and then you were telling me earlier that you're doing something else now you've kind of ventured out into. Something well, OK, so the the long story of it is in the last year, first of this year it's like I'm getting really bored yeah yeah, you know, cuz you know I love what Brickman's doing. I love a lot of the stuff I see sooner and her team doing a playground and there's all these like OK, so that's very cool and inventive but there's a real tendency out there at least for the clients that I get anyway. They want the TV tour, the screen in the back and we're all we're going to do is worry about video content and that's where it'll be. Yeah.

35:37 And I just after four or five of those, I'm like, OK. It's a little cookie cutter, huh? It's a lot cookie cutter. Yeah. And so that's when I started doing things like, well, all right, I'll do new fixtures, I'll change consoles. I'll do any of these things to try to amp it up. Yeah, I remember. Completely get that. You know, there was a client that Nate and I had a couple of years ago and they were just kind of breaking out and breaking through. And they're like, OK, well, we're going to play this little tour of small arenas. I thought, oh, well, this could be fun. You know, 6000 seat arenas. It's still an arena shape. How can we do that? Came up with this crazy ideas like, well, let's make it like they were going to sell the room out. So it's like, let's make it like Minnie Springsteen. Let's open it up in the back.

36:18 Let's, you know, really make it about the crowd. Let's let's not even do a stage. Let's do a series of connected things. And. Yeah, no, we really want a screen back there and then we want a bigger screen. Well, then really we wanna just do a lot of video content. Jesus. OK, yeah, yeah. So I'm so sick of the big video screen behind the band. Yeah, so. And it's like, sorry, Frank Montero, but I'm tired of it. I'm tired, tired, tired, tired. But yes, I didn't have a whole lot going on. I was like, you know, cuz Manilow is now basically Nate Alf's show. I mean, he's been doing it for so many years now. Yeah, it's all his baby. You know, I, I go out and say hello to people, you know, twice a year and just basically hi, looks great, but. Is he still at what, the Westgate or something? Yeah, for life.

37:10 Really. For life. For life. You told me that last time. I remember that. Yeah. Trying. To deal for life. So that's crazy. That's hilarious. So, you know, it's just kind of way it began. You know, it's like Nate and I used, we're doing a lot of stuff together, but then, you know, he started doing a lot of stuff with clear all visuals and and Sooner's bunch, and then he was doing Manolo all the time. And so. And then I was sort of like, OK, Doobie Brothers, that's fine. But again, it's a screen with lights around it. Yeah. Like what else could I get into? Nothing challenging you much, no, Yeah. So, you know, I'd always been fascinated with, with home building and land and developing land. I always wanted to do that. I was like, I, you know, my, the entrepreneur brain kicks in and it's like, yeah, well, I want to build my own house. Well, that's silly.

37:57 You should build a neighborhood so that pays for your house. That's that's my thing. Jesus, there you go. So you know, I've been hunting for land and looking at ideas and stuff. Where? In and around Saint Louis, out there, in and around the suburbs and out in the country. I love one plan I've got right now on the table. But, you know, the financing thing still a ways off is just like there's a big hunk of land that would be a great golf course. Yeah, yeah, that'd be nice. So anyway, so I thought, well, all right, I need to learn how to draw in that vein. It's like I'm not going to be an architect. An architect's still going to have to do the, you know, the feasibilities and the weights and the measures and the stamp and the legal, but I could do the house.

38:38 So I went and took a training course for about four months to learn Revit to, you know, the architectural side of, of life. And I just got into it. It's like, this is fun. So that's what I started doing. And then, you know, now it's like, OK, well, now I know how to do this business model. It's like, and if we get the land, have the land to sell with the home, offer somebody you know, that's not going to build a 5000 square foot custom home, but doesn't want to buy in a subdivision and just a cookie cutter. So it's like there's a there's a wedge there where you can say, hey, we will give you all the custom freedom, but you're not going to have to do some monstrosity thing that prices out most people. So that's that's the developing thing right now. So is it a hobby still or is it, have you got a customer yet? I'd say we're transitioning over right now. Yeah, almost got the land deal done. It's really, really house.

39:36 So once I have that. And how big? Like how many houses? What's your? First one. This first one is only 7, the first one. Most people build like a barn Outback or something First the. First one would be it would be 7 homes of course. Wild. I won't be doing it by myself. Obvious. And it's seven homes that are like, what, a couple 1000 square feet or bigger? Yeah, anywhere from 15 to 2528. Oh, that's. Cool, that's perfect. Like single family. Single family, single St. Yeah. And you know, I just got back to the approval from the county for the layout. And so now cuz I, you know, again, I'm just doing all these basic things. Now it goes to the actual surveyor who'll go, OK, I see what you're up to do and I can do that. It's all pieces and parts politics. It's really not that much diff.

40:26 Yes. Do you got to deal with manager? Plan. Do you start with a site plan 1st and then you do housing models? Like you come up with three models or something and you can choose from these three. That's kind of the idea. There's about 5 different options that we'll start with. So there's, you know, there's a split level, not split level, but there's a walk out, there's a there's a ranch, there's a two-story, there's kind of a more mountain cottagey thing. Yeah, kind of on the steeper lots. You can stick in there without a backyard and just let it hang out over, right. Yeah. So from there, then somebody could go and say, all right, well, I love this, but could the bedroom be over there? Or yeah, so and then is there like an A&B elevation too, like if you want to, yeah. Interesting.

41:07 All customize all that stuff. So it's great. I got a terrific builder guy and I've got the, you know, the surveyor person that I got in contact with a few years ago when I was doing my own house. And so it's it's kind of we're getting really close. That's really, really cool. It does allow the creative juices to to flow. I'll still find myself at some point in the middle of it going would that'd make a great stage. So I'll jump over and like, stick it in a folder or you'll. Put an Amphitheatre in the middle of a development of seven houses, you know. Sure, we'll sell it out. It's only 12 seats. I can get a truck in there. Yeah, it's. 12 seats, we could sell it out. So, but it was, it was a lot of fun because it's not that different. It's the same procedure. You're still designing a space, you're still figuring out angles and where light comes from.

41:53 Yeah, it's all the same stuff, but it's just a different application. Yeah. Which is great because it kind of just reinvigorates the whole thing. That's that's really exciting. Well, and I mean potentially, you know, you can earn well on that. Too. So I'm kind of, you know, Steve Cohen says that we're both starting our second acts cuz he's getting into a whole lot of producing now. Yeah, yeah, other. Than other than Billy, of course, he's everything. But you know, outside of that, he's doing a lot of television producing. He's like, it's our second act. We've all done the touring for so long. We've all been frustrated at all the things other people do, so now we'll do it ourselves. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, no, that's great. That's, that's fantastic. I'm actually, I'm leaving in a couple of hours here to go to the other coast of Florida.

42:37 One of my really good friends from Canada, He now lives in Vancouver, but he built my house in the Banff area and but I'm going to spend the next 5 days with him and his wife. And I should throw him on the phone with you at some point because he's done exactly what you're doing. He built the development that I'm in up there and lately he just retired last year. But lately what he's been doing is, is just spec homes or building for really rich clients. So a client will come to him and say, Hey, I just bought this $5,000,000 piece of land. I want you to build a, a 8000 square foot Mountain Home on it.

43:18 And he'll build that, that house for them to their spec. Well, he'll, he'll spec it out. He'll basically sit with the client, say, do you want a closet here? Do you want a closet here? So, you know, and then he'll hire the architect to get it drawn properly and stuff. But but yeah, I mean, if that would be helpful to you, I'll throw you on the phone with him. He's, he's a really, really good dude and might just save you, you know, a heartache. At some point, a headache, yeah. Who knows, You know, I, I know that when they built our house, it was funny because I bought, I bought before they owned the land and, and so it was a little bit speculative on my side and it worked out OK.

44:03 It worked out very well actually. But it was pretty hectic for them, you know, because they were selling houses and they hadn't completed the land deal yet and the power lines were still above ground on the land where they were going to be building houses and all this stuff. But it worked out. I mean, I, I literally probably have one of the best views in the entire valley that we live in of just mountains on every side of me. It's stunning. The photos are always very jealousy enticing. Yeah, I see one of those like, OK. Welcome. Visit one day when you're bored in the summer and you need a weekend away. Just ring me up and say I'm on my way. Pick me up at the airport and I will. I need 70° not 95. Yeah.

44:43 Yeah, Loader. Loader came and visited me for a few days last summer and went and played the no, he didn't play the famous golf course, the Banff Springs. He played the one that I live right next to, which is called Stewart Creek, which is a beautiful, beautiful golf course and had a pretty good time. So yeah, it was fun. So that's that's exciting. So is that going to completely take over? Are you still going to, you know, do some shows? I think the best part of it is, is that will become how I make my living. But there's no way I would ever really just stop doing what I've done for 35 years, you know? Living here too, though, I have done it right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've.

45:24 Kind of made. It's like one of those things we're to say. You know, I'm looking to move down to the other side, you know, what is it? Robert Kiyosaki has his little circle. And it's like the top people are employees and self, you know? Yeah, entrepreneurs. And the bottom people are investors and businessmen. And those people don't sell their hours in the day. To make money. That's yeah, yeah. It's the midlife. Crisis yeah, it's like OK I. Got about 30 good years left. Let's. What else can we do? You know, I kind of done all this. Yeah. You know my thing right now. It's making me crazy. Like I went through it this morning. I actually woke up at 4:00 this morning with crazy ideas in my head. And so I got up and my developer, this is dangerous.

46:07 By the way, the the guy who does all the development for Gear Source is an Australian guy and he's based in Vietnam. The guy who owns the company and he's got 70 coders over there. So him and I'll come up with some crazy idea and he'll be like, let me go get with the the guys and he'll go and pull a group of five or six coders together and say here's what we want to build. And so anyways, him and I'll come up with these crazy brainstorms and because he's 13 hours ahead of me, you know, four or five in the morning is perfect for him. He's just getting ready to have dinner. And and so we did that for like 2 hours this morning and I get into this and I'm like. I got so much stuff to. Do I can't get old like I just can't. My brain needs to keep sharp and I got so true. I'm I'm more excited about business and the future and just technology and stuff right now than I've ever been. And you know, it's like me and Bonnie all talked about this on a podcast recently because he's very up on AI and so many people are so nervous and afraid.

47:10 I ever really understood it was when listen to him. Do that all because he had to dumb it down for me. Well, I was the same way. I was like. Oh yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah, he had to dumb it down for. Me yeah, he talks at a different level he's a coder kind of brain and I'm I'm an entrepreneur kind of brain. So I just need to know what will it do for me and how will it do it and how easy is it for me to work and that kind of stuff. But I mean, we came up with some wild ones this morning and you know another thing I, I announced it at the front end of the show, but we're launching another podcast and you know, it's it's called future tech Gears of gear, future tech. And all it is really is it's, it's all the new stuff coming out and instead of reading about it in PLSN or in, you know, live design or whatever, it's a podcast. But here's all the new great stuff that's coming out and it'll be 20-30 minutes once a week or once every couple weeks, depending on how much how many press releases and product announcements and stuff come in.

48:15 But it's completely created by AI completely, 100% created by AI. Oh my goodness. And I've been working on this for. About. I don't know, three or four months and it's going to launch in the next two or three weeks. And at least initially it's 100% free. So the, our sponsors anyways, who are already sponsoring the podcast will get all of their press releases done and their product announcements and everything. And, you know, people instead of having to read a magazine or whatever, will be able to listen to it in their car on the way to, you know, wherever. So. So anyways, yeah, I'm really into the tech. I love it. It's, it's cool. I love where it's going right now.

48:56 So yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing, Yeah. What else? What else is news? Something something it. Was your birthday in? Vegas, I felt so bad because I didn't know. Because most people's birthdays, I admit it. Most people don't admit it, but I admit it. I learn about them on Facebook. You know, it's not like I just went, oh, Seth, it's your birthday today. I just remembered you're, you know, December something, right? Yeah. That's you. No, I don't think like that. I'm not some kind of savant or something that knows everyone's birthdays. But but I wasn't on Facebook. I was busy at LDI, you know I got to. Have dinosaurs that day.

49:38 So you did have dinosaurs that day. And but yeah, I just, that was an amazing thing. It was a great start. And we're going to actually have a follow up meeting here soon to kind of debrief. And we've got a lot of ideas. You know, Jake Berry was very vocal about some things. He wanted to change a few people, a few people. Had some good. Ideas and Jake was actually one of them. But I think what everybody, everybody got their eyes open this big to like, whoa, people are actually interested in what I got to say. Like this is really cool. And the people on the other end have like still like yesterday I got somebody sent me a big long thank you e-mail for introducing them to these people in that room and stop.

50:27 And so next year, we're typical of me. We're going to go much bigger and, you know, we're going to go for a much larger audience. And we're probably going to start with a panel and then move to a round table kind of thing. And so, yeah, we're going to we're going to come up with, you know, some more ideas for next time. And the thing about a panel is you get, everybody gets to bust each other's balls on a panel. You don't get to do that at these round tables. And it's a good way to get conversations going, You know where. Hey, Cosmo, didn't you do that thing that one time? Oh, get out of it. You know? So, yeah. But it's fun. And I'm glad you were there. It was nice to have you there, even though I still don't think you're much of A geezer. I think you're too young to be in that room.

51:08 The thing about that, that was really. Cool to me personally was that, you know, those guys in those rooms, you know, I'm not their age for the most part, you know, but those are all the people that I guess really wrote letters back then in college to said I want to be you, I want to do this or I poured over those lighting dimensions magazines to be. And then you know. Years later to somehow sort of enter their orbit professionally, that's just ridiculous to me That that, you know, Jeff Rabbits and I have actually worked together, that Cohen and I work together, that Peter Morris and I have done things. Yeah, it's the craziest.

51:49 Thing in the world for me because. That was the generation that I was watching when I wanted to get started, so it did meant the world to me. I like this is the coolest thing ever. How did I get to do this? Well, it's the same as like in sports. Especially hockey, because hockey, you have such long careers. Soccer too, I guess. But in hockey you see these 19 year old hockey players signed to these NHL teams and they come on and they're playing with, you know, Alexander Ovechkin or, or, you know, Jeremy Jager or some of these guys who are in their 40s or late 30s or whatever. And these kids grew up, you know, watching them, 6-7 years old. Watching those. Guys play in the NHL and they still happen to be playing in the NHL and now they're on the same team with them and they're just like, inch me, I'm playing with Jeremy Jager. Wow.

52:38 You know, so same kind of thing, same kind of things. Just crazy. You know, I know when I first came into the industry too, same thing. Like, you know, to be in that room and have Alan Branton there and, and you know, you and, and Jake and all these people, like when I first came into the industry 19, well, I mean really in 1991, but I was in it a little before that. But you know, those guys were studs back then. You know, they were already studs and big names and stuff, right? So for for me to be sitting there at this stage in that room with those people, it's amazing. You know, I love sharing stories with them. I wonder though. The next iteration of this industry, I don't know if there's going to be those kind of superstars. Me neither, I don't.

53:28 Think there will be You know I can remember one of my first. LD is, you know, I mean, if Ravis was in the room going to a booth, there was a posse with him and people were just like, what's he up to? What's he going to like? But there was also two magazines, you know, there was also arguably, what, two dozen concert designers, and five of them had most of the jobs. Now they're everywhere and everybody's got big rigs and everybody's learning to program themselves at 12 years old. So yeah, it's going to look a lot different. I don't know if I agree with you. I mean, it already does. I don't. We're not have to. You're not inventing a business anymore. Yeah. You know, it's established.

54:10 Very much so. Yeah. No. But back then, like you said, you knew who the guys were or girls. You knew even the product, like they were going to use one of 10 things, you know? Yeah. Yeah. These few things. Yeah. And so, you know, there wasn't a lot of variables involved. And, you know, you knew how to get to those people. You knew who they were. Now you got this young group that are much harder to impress, you know, So I think all the lighting manufacturers are trying to get everybody excited about a new product or whatever and they're going to use what they're going to use and you know, and the products aren't aren't. They they're not untouchable anymore, right in the days, like if you've got verilight, you got cash, you've got one of the special, you know, yeah, ways in.

54:59 They're a bit ubiquitous now, yeah. Everything's good, everything's good. It's all solid enough. And it's you can get it at every price point. Well, by the way, Seth like as much. As you use this stuff, like can you sit in an audience now, look up at the rig and go, Oh yeah, those are Araton fixtures or Oh yeah, those are elation fixtures. No, I can't tell the difference anymore. I mean, certainly there are a few fixtures that you can definitely. Well, you think you can tell, but you know, a Sharpie is not a Sharpie anymore. A Sharpie could be a Chinese Sharpie, you know, or something else. I mean, so yeah, everything's a bit ubiquitous now. It used to be able to do that. You could show. Me a picture in a magazine and I could tell you that's verilite VL 2C, you know, Yeah, yeah, no question.

55:44 Are those are in tela beams or those are? Cyberlites or those? Because three of them are out. Those are probably pals. Telescans. Yeah, but. You can even tell. From the quality of the beam maybe? They were that there's that was the unique properties to all those fixtures. And now this is well, I could tell looking. Up at an OB rig, I could tell the difference between AZ scan and a Telescan quite easily. You know, just again, like you said, looking at the beam and but it's everything's kind of looks the same a bit right now. And so that's challenging because I mean, even though the rigs like if you compare a rig from today to a rig from 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you're like, whoa, man, like 30.

56:27 Years ago if you would have seen. Anybody these days, because they all have the same stuff, basically 1000 moving lights and a massive LED screen. And but if you would have looked at that 2530 years ago, you would have said, no way, man, we're never going to have that much gear in a rig like that. But but now that's vanilla like that's, that's sort of the base model and you can pack it tighter. And you can get it with less power. I mean, all of the limitations have come off. Yeah. And so these, these shows are much, much larger visually than they ever have been. Well, I mean weight is still an issue. Obviously, you know, and I one of the reasons I know that is because my house is near Calgary. And I don't know if you've ever gigged at the Saddle Dome in Calgary many years ago, but yeah. It used to be like people would go to. Calgary and skip Edmonton.

57:16 Calgary you'd go Vancouver, Calgary, maybe Winnipeg and Toronto and Montreal. That was sort of a Canadian tour. Now none of them go to Calgary because the the roof in the building won't hold the rigs. So everyone goes up to Edmonton now instead and but we cannot forget Kamloops and. Red Deer, I just, those are some of my favorite ones. There you go. I love those gigs I used to play. In Red Deer in. The The Red Deer Hotel Red Deer motor in whatever the hell it was called, but it was it was a dump and but it was fun. I had some fun in Red Deer. I have AT shirt the Canadian Finals Rodeo Red deer T-shirt or Regina. Yeah, that was.

57:56 Another one. We did a bunch What? There's a comedian who says. Regina, now that's a party town. Any any, any town that rhymes with vagina. Yeah. So yeah, they were actually. They actually sell T-shirts. In the town that I had a friend of mine who was in front of house on Bon Jovi and Star Wars was following them along. And so they were ahead of us a couple of days and we would be in there. And he'd left a present for me. And it was a T-shirt from the like the gift shop of the town thing. It said, you know, Regina, it rhymes with fun. I was like, Oh my. Gosh, that's I'm probably not wearing. This anyway, but I appreciate the sentiment. Yeah, Regina is such a dump.

58:39 Do you know Red Red Rob? Rod Gibson from, Well, he's at Christie now, but he's from Regina. Gil Hopkins, who owned a lighting company out of Calgary called Prolite Productions. I think he's from Regina as well. There were some Canadian bands that were from Regina. I think St. Heart was from Regina. But other than that, like Regina is one of those places, there's no reason to go there. Yeah, it's sort of like. Fargo North it was. A cool restaurant that we ate at that was in an old. Airport hangar and it was kind of fun, but like the the old Kwanzaa Hut hangar kind of thing, it was pretty.

59:19 Cool. Yeah, Why? I remember that. But yeah, yeah, but so the saddle. Dome like none of the big tours go through the saddle Dome anymore because the roof just doesn't hold the rigs anymore. So, but they got a new building going in right now. So like everyone else, it's what you do it's. What you do? Everything just keeps getting bigger. We need more lights, more video panels, more things to blind. Yeah. Exactly. Blinders. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. That's one of the things I really miss. You know, having a huge portion of what I do be set design, hard to find somebody that wants to do that anymore.

1:00:00 Isn't that true? Yeah, I mean, it's I've, I've noticed that like sets don't exist anymore, you know, it's like packages. But yeah. But, yeah, and then I get the reality of it. You got to store it, you know, you got to pay for it up front. There's a lot of headache to it. Yeah, you can. You can't really change it the way you can a piece of video content. Yeah, all of that. But I do miss, you know, the inventiveness of the theatricality of some of this stuff. It's like, yeah, yeah. It's visually raising, but I still know. It's video, you know. Yeah, yeah, I know. I miss sets too. I, you know, I don't even remember really the last wild ones that I saw, but I remember I did a bunch of lights with Peter Morse on one of my Donna tours.

1:00:46 It was called Drown Drown World Tour. With the tree, Yeah, Big metal. Tree. Yeah, yeah, 'cause I remember that set so well. I can't remember who designed it, but I remember her walking into the LA Forum where they were doing tech rehearsals and she walked in with her, her daughter, who I think was probably about eight or nine at the time, and Guy Ritchie following behind her. And she comes in and goes, what the fuck is that? And can't remember if it was the production manager or set designer. I think production manager was probably cowboy.

1:01:27 And I think he said, he said, well, that that's the set. And she goes, well, that's not what I agreed to. That's fucking disgusting. And she just went off. It's the ugliest thing I've ever seen. I spent $2,000,000 on that piece of shit. I want that thing gone. And she just like threw a full on fit right in front of her daughter. I was embarrassed. I'm standing there with Peter Morrison. Everybody's trying to take a step back, a step back, a step back, you know, trying to get out of the conversation. And I was just blown away by like, how blunt she was being. And then she went stomping out of the room. And I think all they did was they painted it a different color.

1:02:10 And she came in the next day and went, see, now that's what I wanted. Now you've rebuilt it. It looks much better now. And that's what I wanted. And they're like, yes, ma'am, whatever you want. Wife for many years only. Chris Lamb could handle her. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I. Think there were other reasons that he could handle her, but too many rumors. No, it's not a rumor. I I heard those. Stories first hand. Yeah, I went, I was on a few shows of that when it first started up, I think like Barcelona, London. I can't remember where I went with it, but yeah, Chris and I went to a few dinners and had some interesting conversations. But yeah, anyways, that was the last sort of elaborate set that I remember in an arena tour.

1:03:00 I don't remember a lot of them after that. Jim Lenihan used to do these. Outrageous. Things for Tom Petty? Yeah, the tree house. Yeah, I remember his tree house. I had lights on that one too with Jim. Yeah. And that one I think was one of the end, sort of like the, the put the fork in it kind of thing because they paid to store it forever and just that kind of became a real problem. Yeah. Well, because you think you're going to use it again, you know, we're not going to just trash this thing. We're going to use it again. Just sell it. Sell it to some lunatic fan with a barn and a farmhouse somewhere and they'll put it in their farm, in their barn and invite friends over for Tom Petty parties. And this is the actual set used that actually, Huddleston and I used to talk about an idea of buying some land in Central Florida where it's cheap as hell and building like a big Quonset kind of building.

1:03:54 Couple of them, few of them and charging tours to store stuff, store sets in there, but turn it into a museum, a rock'n'roll set museum and you know like a Hard Rock Cafe, but with sets instead of closing clothing or whatever. And your rent is paid by charging a minimal nominal amount to the band to store the sets and, and you've got stuff moving through constantly that people can come and see. So that's interesting to me. I don't know if it's interesting. To too many people, but to me it sounds really cool. Yeah, well, I mean, in Florida you can. Find fans for anything like there's that Dawn Garlets drag racing museum that everyone always goes to Big Daddy Dawn Garlets and there's alligator museums and all kinds of weird shit. But yeah, yeah.

1:04:47 So I can understand though, you, you getting a little bored of it because I'm, I'm bored like every time I see a show, it's you know, I could see, I could see, you know, a rock band One day, a country band the next day and a pop band the next day. And, and not so it's a difference. They're all the same. Yeah, I mean they. All look the same to me. They really do. Yeah, and a lot of that. You know, I don't think it's a dig on the designers. I think it's just, you know, it's just giving the artist what he wants. The the the framework of the. Entertainment business is just, well, this is what you do. And it takes a brave artist to say, I'm going to push that a little further, you know, And it's not always an easy choice where the managers like, go, this is how you do this. Yeah.

1:05:35 You know it was, it was a rare thing you did stadiums with Toby, right? A few, yeah. Do you like doing stadiums or it's a different mindset? You gotta, you know, it's like put down your little brush and get your big giant brush out and realize that you're you're enveloping the whole space. Yeah, that's the way to do it in my opinion anyway. I mean, you could, you know, you could just say it's my show as normal arena and we're just sticking it in the box at the end of the stadium. Yeah, yeah, The the ones that. Really seem to work. You know, are the ones where it's like, let's push this thing out and let's break these walls open and make this big giant thing at the at the field. Yeah, I was talking with Marty Ham. About because he he, I think last year or whatever, he had Beyoncé.

1:06:23 In stadiums Shakira. In stadiums, What's her name? The Olivia Rodrigo in stadiums. And so he's doing all these stadiums at the same time. I think, no, I don't think Fleetwood Mac, but I asked him if he liked stadiums and he said it's too much walking. It is a lot. Everything's so far, everything's catering to you. Know. Backstage or from catering to front of house or something or to my office, from my office to catering sometimes is like, you know, half a mile, you know, it's just so far. And the other thing is. It's twofold for the audience. On one hand, it's great to be part of that big event and big spectacle and the excitement of a crowd that large. On the other hand, you're going to watch the show on the screen. You just that's the way, yeah, you're going to sit there and watch it on.

1:07:17 TV, you know, and I've never been a fan. I think there's some bands like, I think Coldplay pulls it off really well 'cause it is. It's such a visual thing. Yeah, it's all. It's really not about the guys. Yeah, like Pink Floyd. Yeah, it's the. Environment. Yeah, it it's the same as Pink Floyd. You know, it's Pink Floyd you didn't like. For the longest time I didn't even really know what the guys looked like, you know, 'cause all you saw was the the visual high side special or. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, so. Some bands I think can pull that off, but other bands like where you're literally just staring at the. Video screen the. Whole time.

1:07:57 It's kind of a waste drag. I mean, I thought Taylor Swift did a great. Job with integrating, you know, Baz and the team did yeah, just remarkable work at pulling this whole building into the into the thing. And it wasn't always just look at her. There was, you know. You just got to treat it. Like an experience and not just like your typical concert. Yeah, I never saw it. I, I, I did see Metallica last year. I was again in Canada. I, I saw it in the building their own. And I think that's that's. When that works. Yeah, yeah. And I, I actually, you know, normally I wouldn't go down onto the field and be up close to the stage, but at Metallica I did. And it was actually pretty enjoyable. I mean, it was, it was cool how they did it because it's in the round and, you know, they they've basically got a stage at each corner of the stage.

1:08:47 So they'll play to each side and they just keep rotating and, you know, another drum kit pops up and they just keep rotating around. And so I thought that was pretty cool. I mean, it was loud as hell. Like they got all those friggin Meyer Subs just kicking the shit out of you right next to the stage. And yeah, so it is. It is. So have you got anything planned this year for, for tours or shows or anything or you're right, we know the doobies are going back. I don't think there'll be a lot of work to do on that because I think they'll just be getting going, but much of the same no at this point. I'm like just sort. Of let's see where we go, let's see what happens. Well, the housing thing is exciting. I mean, that whole real estate thing keeps the brains are going, you know?

1:09:30 Yeah. It doesn't allow the dirt to gather. I mean, what an amazing. What amazing concept is the idea to then maybe move up to a bigger setup and end up building yourself one in there and Oh yeah, building 7 and the 8th becomes granddad. Yeah. Or the only challenge with that is the other seven are constantly bitching at the one little thing wrong with their house or whatever. They come, they know where to go. Yeah, they come to dinner. Parties at your place and they're. Like, hey, by the way, now yeah, can. You. Can you come over and take a look at? The. Electric socket in my laundry room, please. Yeah, that's my buddy, by the way. I'll call him up. His name is Morley. And I'll call him up and say Morley, Why is this thing happening?

1:10:11 Why is my front window leaking? And he's really into the geekdom of it all. And he'll be like, well, have you checked this? Did you ask about this? Did you? Look, I'm going to have to come over and have a look at that, you know, and he'll pop right over and have a look at it. So. So it's fun. Well, Seth, I I love talking with you. I love seeing you. You know, I just saw you a month ago, but I still like seeing you. You're one of one of my favorites. You're such a good dude. And so I'm glad you're happy. Glad you're having fun. Yeah. I look forward to seeing more about this housing thing. I I'd kind of a cool thing. It's like what Will 20? Five look like no no.

1:10:51 Is it called like SJ developments? Or something. No, I can't be. I cannot. Put my own name on it. That's a little much for me. What is it called? I don't have it yet. Really. Yeah. We're waiting to see, you know? Once this land thing goes through, there's several things around it that could reference that, you know. Do you want to borrow my paid? ChatGPT account and you can come up with a name real quick. Figure it out for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll give you a. Name real fast. All right, my friend. Well, good to see you and stay in touch. Absolutely. Be a stranger. Not at all. All right, pal, see ya. Bye.