#287 - Bill Price

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Well, hello there, and thanks
for joining me today on episode

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#287 with Bill Price.
Bill spent a very long time with

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my good friend Jonathan Resnick
at Barbizon.

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And so we talked a whole bunch
about that.

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We talked about living in a tiny
little town called Haver de

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Grace.
Interesting name.

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And he told me all about that
town.

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He told me about a very long and
successful career.

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And he seems to think he's
retiring.

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So let's see if that comes true.
So please enjoy episode #287

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with Bill Price and please like,
subscribe, share these podcasts.

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I appreciate it.
It's the only way that we grow

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the podcast.
So thank you very much and

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enjoy.
Hello and welcome to episode

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#287.
Today's podcast is brought to

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Welcome back and thanks for

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joining me again today on 287,
which was interesting.

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One of my son Jeremy's racing
numbers, he his number was

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always 87.
Those of you who have followed

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him will know that.
But as he moved up the ranks,

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there were different classes
where you had to have a one at

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the beginning of the year, your
number and it had to be a three

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digit number or A2 or A4 or A7
or whatever, especially in

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karting.
And so in karting for a couple

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of years, his number was 287 and
he won a lot of races in #287

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that was in in the junior ranks.
So episode 286 last week was

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crazy.
It was a full on ambush.

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And you know, these guys are my
really great friends.

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I was so excited about getting
them on a podcast to really talk

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about their insights on what's
going to happen in 2025, plus

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some of the sort of downside of
2024, what they thought about

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the year, how they thought
things went, etcetera, Maybe

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what some of the trends might be
going forward.

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And so I was pretty excited
about having that conversation.

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And then all of a sudden, out of
the blue, John Stone goes into

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this whole thing about, you
know, this is your life, Marcel.

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And I'm so appreciative of these
guys, you know, just amazing

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guys to think of me that way and
to do something so weirdly

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special and go ahead and check
out #286 if you want to see me

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completely sort of out of my
place and out of control and,

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you know, being dragged around
by a leash by these guys.

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It was, it was fun and very
appreciated.

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And, and I hope you like my
story too, because it's, it's a

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wild one.
We just basically scratched the

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surface, but it's a nutty story
for sure.

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So in AI, my favorite topic
again, I, Sam Altman and

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Microsoft, as you know, probably
maybe you don't know, but

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Microsoft has invested lots and
lots of billions of dollars in

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Open AI and is very partnered in
and dug in pretty hard on

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helping Sam Altman and Open AI
to not only get to AGI, but get

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to AGI and beyond.
And one of the things that

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they've started talking about is
the fact that it's about profit.

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Now that Microsoft's president
or CEO or whatever has come out

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and said that he believes that
with not only AGI, but even

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beyond AGI that you will be able
to generate more than $100

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billion in profits.
And so right now, open AI I

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don't even think is expected to
be profitable until, if I

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remember correctly, 2029.
So they're losing a lot of

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money.
It's very expensive to build

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these AI models and to train
them.

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And so you know, they're losing
money.

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They're going to continue losing
money for a while.

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But on a topic of switching from
a non not-for-profit to a for

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profit company, which is when
Elon split with them, because I

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don't know if you know this, but
Elon was one of the Co founders

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of Open AI.
It was meant to be an open

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source free software platform
that was not-for-profit.

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And obviously it's changed
direction.

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And so Elon has sued Open AI
because of this and for other

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reasons, I guess.
And I read recently that someone

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who's known as kind of the
godfather of AI, Geoffrey

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Hinton, opposes this shift to a
focus on profits and is also,

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you know, a little peeved at the
fact that they took so many

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prior tax benefits as from being
a not-for-profit company.

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And also just, you know, the
complexities involved in AI, the

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social issues, the all sorts of
very sensitive issues.

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He just doesn't think that the
the focus should be 100% on

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profit.
So he's joining Elon, supporting

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Elon in his lawsuit.
So that's a an interesting

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wrinkle or development.
It's going to kind of be Elon

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against Sam Altman and open AI
for a number of years yet, I

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think.
But meanwhile, it's going to

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continue on.
And so while AGI, which is

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artificial general intelligence,
which is basically what everyone

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says is when it gets to the
point where it's as smart as as

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a human, as a, you know, a
person that you would hire off

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the street to come in and do
something, AGI has general

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intelligence.
It's able to do, you know, most

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jobs quite well and I, you know,
they, they keep changing the

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levels, whether it's at a third
year accomplice or a fourth

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year, whatever, or, you know,
someone with a college degree at

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some point.
So they're going to keep moving

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that up.
But there's a new term being

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tossed around, which isn't that
new.

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But Sam Altman has basically
come out and said that we

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already know how to get to AGI.
We're already on our way.

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We're probably going to start
hitting AGI very soon, 2526.

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We're already working towards
super intelligence, AI super

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intelligence, which is AI that
is expected to be sort of like

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10 times as smart as the world's
greatest geniuses today.

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So if you look at an Elon Musk,
for example, maybe 15 times the

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smarts of Elon Musk in an AI
tool.

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And so that's when it gets
pretty crazy.

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That's when you start scratching
your head and going, why would I

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want a human in this role when I
I've got AI that can do it 20

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times better potentially and
never takes a day off, never

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calls in sick, doesn't take
smoke breaks.

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There's no HR issues where
they're, you know, saying

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inappropriate words to the
person in the next cubicle or

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whatever.
So it is getting interesting

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folks.
And I will say that, you know,

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this year, and this came out of
Sam Altman as well, but I've

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been saying it as well, and I
think I actually said it in my

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prediction on last week's
episode also, is that I believe

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starting this year, you're going
to start seeing AI agents

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sitting among your team.
So your team is going to be

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blended.
And I don't mean blended from a

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cultural standpoint or a gender
or religious standpoint.

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I mean blended from a standpoint
of human and non human agents.

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And so agents, if you don't
know, it's just really a word

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for an AI tool that's specific
to a function or a task.

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And so you'll have marketing
agents, sales agents, customer

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service agents, etcetera, code
writing agents.

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And so it's AI that is created
specifically to do a task or a

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genre of tasks.
And so I will tell you that my

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business is already operating
with agents and going forward,

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we're probably going to start
seeing sort of like one agent

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for every three staff members,
maybe four staff members.

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So we're still going to have
more people than agents.

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Maybe in the future that might
be down to 1 to one or one to

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two or something like that.
And that doesn't mean it's

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replacing people.
It just means that those agents

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are going to make our people
more efficient so we don't have

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to add more people.
And so is it taking jobs away

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from humans?
Certainly it is.

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I, you know, I, I can't lie and
say that none of our companies

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out there are going to lose jobs
to AI.

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We're all going to lose jobs to
AII, have to become smarter as

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ACEO or I'm going to lose my job
to an AICEO.

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Joe Roganoff and talks about an
AI president, which, you know,

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it's not completely out of the
realm of possibilities.

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Talk about making decisions
based on the biggest data set

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that you can, you know, and
that's what it's all about is,

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is making better decisions based
on better data.

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And so, you know, the other
thing about having these AI

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agents is that for the most
part, they're doing relatively

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simple, relatively mundane
things, things that we as humans

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don't necessarily want to do or
don't have the time to do or

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whatever it is.
But, but also some more complex

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tasks like data management
analysis, managing really large,

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complicated spreadsheets
sometimes and pulling out

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information, telling you what's
in those spreadsheets and

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things.
So you know, and right now one

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of the, one of the AI agents
that we have is a customer

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service agent called Gearbot,
which is basically our chatbot.

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When you come to our site to
gear source and you talk to gear

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source, you're talking to a bot.
And then if the bot can't

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answer, it'll say, would you
like a live human?

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And you'll say, yes.
And you can also say, give me a

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live agent at any time
throughout the chat and, and you

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can get rid of it.
But if you're just saying, Hey,

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how do I recover my password?
How do I get into my account?

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How do I open an account?
How do I add a listing?

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How do I make a payment?
How do I do all of these

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relatively simple things?
It'll be your fastest route to a

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perfect answer.
It'll be faster than any of my

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staff and certainly faster than
me, who will say, I don't know,

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I don't know how to do all those
things.

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So it's working pretty well.
Some people have experienced

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frustration because they keep
asking it the same question and

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it says I don't understand, but
you know, that's how it's meant

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to respond.
And by the way, it's also a

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learning bot.
So we're constantly feeding it

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more information.
You're feeding it more

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information with your
conversations.

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It's using that information to
become smarter next time.

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And so a year from now, you
won't even recognize that bot.

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That bot will be smarter than
anybody on my staff, myself

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included.
So it's a good thing and we're

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pretty excited about where it's
going for our platform.

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And some of the things that
we're working on that I won't

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tell you about are really
exciting and are going to really

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sort of change the world when it
comes to buying or renting

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product, cross renting product
and more on that later.

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And so I like to share with you
tools that I'm using because a

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lot of people call me and ask
because they think of me as some

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sort of an AI expert.
I'm not an expert.

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I'm more of a junkie than an
expert expert.

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I like using the stuff.
I like researching it.

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I like finding new tools that
that either simplify or or

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improve on or make more
efficient some of the things

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that I'm already doing.
So one of the things that for me

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is is a real key keeper.
It's something I use absolutely

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every day.
All day is perplexity.

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I use perplexity for search over
Google.

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So I don't use Google search
anymore.

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I now use perplexity for search
and for simple really like if

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I'm looking for where to have
lunch today, I'll still use

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Google for, you know, some
things I'll still use Google but

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for I would say 88 searches out
of 10 now are on perplexity.

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00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,760
It's much more multi source.
It'll tell you what the sources

226
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,200
are for that information.
It's not advertising based so

227
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,920
you don't have to sit and dig
through a bunch of ads to find

228
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,520
the real answers.
They don't track you and they

229
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,280
are using your information to
teach the models, but they're

230
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,880
not actually tracking you and
selling your information for ads

231
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,000
and stuff.
So that's good.

232
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,040
And I just like the answers.
I think they're much more

233
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,280
complete answers and it's much
better.

234
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,760
Another tool I like to use is
Grok, which is Elon Musk's AI

235
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,440
and why do I like it?
It's just a little bit more fun

236
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,040
than ChatGPT.
So sometimes if I'm writing A

237
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,680
blog and I want to use AI to
help me, by the way, I don't use

238
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,360
AI blog.
So don't get me wrong, I'm not

239
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,440
just having AI do my job for me.
But sometimes I might have it

240
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,440
create the framework or I might
have it go over my framework and

241
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,920
maybe add some color to it a
little bit or something.

242
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,560
But I I just like the way Grok
writes more than I like the way

243
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,440
ChatGPT writes.
I also like some of the images

244
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,520
from Grok better than ChatGPT.
There's just some things that it

245
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,360
does better.
And you know, one of the cool

246
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,640
things that you can do on Grok
now is you can scan, like if

247
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,040
you've just recently gone for
blood work at the doctor, you

248
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,320
can scan your blood work or your
scans, your MRI scans, or any of

249
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,240
that kind of medical
information.

250
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,480
You can scan it in and say,
explain this to me like I'm a

251
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,360
7th grader and it'll tell you
exactly what's going on, what

252
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,840
you should do, what you
shouldn't do, what you might do,

253
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,680
what might have happened, you
know, all kinds of different

254
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,760
things.
I can tell you it's better than

255
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,480
most doctors that I've been to,
family practitioners.

256
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,360
I'm not picking on you, but I
think Grok and ChatGPT and all

257
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,080
sorts of other AI tools are
doing a better job than you are

258
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,440
right now.
And so, Yep, I use Grok quite

259
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,560
often.
Another thing is ChatGPT, and

260
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,320
some of you might like it for
this reason, but ChatGPT is

261
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,840
biased and it is censoring
things.

262
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,400
So my girlfriend is British, I
think many of you know that.

263
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,680
And the other day I was asking
her, did you hear all this crazy

264
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,280
stuff that's going on in England
with all the rape?

265
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,120
And she said, what do you mean
rape?

266
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,280
And I said, well, it just, it
seems like the government are

267
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:29,040
covering up for the fact that
many, not just women, but

268
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,240
children are being raped like
hundreds of thousands of people.

269
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,360
There's, there's so many
reported and unreported cases of

270
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,200
rape going on in England right
now.

271
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,480
And then she made me start
questioning whether or not it

272
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,520
was real 'cause she was like,
well, why haven't I heard about

273
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,920
this?
And you know, basically because

274
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,680
it's not all over mainstream
media #1 So I went into ChatGPT

275
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:55,080
and it said, sorry, that's a,
that's a controversial topic or

276
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,400
it's a, you know, it just
wouldn't tell me it, it

277
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,160
basically said, I'm sorry, but I
won't talk to you about that.

278
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,880
So I went on Grok and Grok gave
me the scoop and it gave it to

279
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,280
me from multiple sources,
completely unbiased.

280
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,640
It wasn't right wing, left wing,
any wing.

281
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,760
It was just straight
information.

282
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,599
And it told me the sources that
that that information came from.

283
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,520
What more could you want?
You know, that to me is, is the

284
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,560
perfect answer.
And so that really surprised me

285
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,599
that that ChatGPT was still a
little bit biased like that.

286
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,319
And then finally, one of the
tools that I literally probably

287
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,960
use everyday, it's crazy, but
you can take a paragraph of

288
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,600
information, a page of
information, a book of

289
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,160
information, or just a few
bullet points and put it into

290
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,600
this napkin dot AI.
And what it will spit out is

291
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,120
like a little graph, a chart, a
flow chart.

292
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,120
It'll basically give you like 20
different types of images that

293
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:56,600
will display that information in
a very sensible way and really

294
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,720
good looking and you know, great
just to grab it and throw it

295
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,120
into a slide deck or, you know,
if you're doing your school

296
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,880
homework or whatever it is, it's
just a really great way to

297
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,400
display information in a little
graph that probably used to take

298
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,640
you a couple of hours to create.
Now you can create it in a

299
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,560
couple of minutes and then you
can do all kinds of modifying

300
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,760
and editing to it and super easy
to use.

301
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,160
It's 100% free of charge and the
only downside is it's only

302
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,320
desktop right now.
It's not available on mobile and

303
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,240
you have to go to napkin dot AI
and sign up for it.

304
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,960
You got to get invited, you'll
get an invite right away and

305
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,440
fantastic tool.
I love it.

306
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,920
I've shared it with a bunch of
people.

307
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,040
They all love it.
And again, I use it practically

308
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,800
everyday.
Anytime I'm trying to explain

309
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,560
something to people, I put it in
a simple little diagram and they

310
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,920
get it right away.
Really, really great app.

311
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,200
So moving on.
Today's guest is Bill Price.

312
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,000
Bill is a consultant of
entertainment technology and a

313
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600
freelance designer, lighting
designer, director, set

314
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,800
designer, theatrical and dance
productions of theatrical and

315
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,520
dance productions.
He has been active in the

316
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,480
entertainment industry for over
40 years and most recently Bill

317
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,640
was Vice President for Act
Three, the Mid-Atlantic Rep for

318
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,000
lighting, rigging and draperies
for entertainment.

319
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,880
He's also the past chair and
founder of Haver de Grace Arts

320
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,720
Collective, the immediate past
chair of United States Institute

321
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,680
of Theatre and Technology,
Chesapeake Section, and former

322
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,680
chair of USITTE Set Council.
Not sure what that is.

323
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,760
An educational, an education
organization of the

324
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,400
entertainment industry.
Bill has come highly recommended

325
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,320
by Bill Graner to come on the
podcast.

326
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,880
So please welcome Bill Price to
the show.

327
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:51,960
Bill, Hello.
How are you?

328
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,680
I'm great, and as I was saying,
that's where I found my pants.

329
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,840
Exactly.
Yep.

330
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,120
Never had that one before.
You got me.

331
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,880
Sorry.
Yeah, well, we were just having

332
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,000
a great off air conversation
about a mutual friend, Jonathan

333
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,280
Resnick.
God rest his soul.

334
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,640
Rest his soul.
And you know, I've talked about

335
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,640
him before on the podcast, but
just a guy who was a really

336
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,680
great friend of mine for a long
time and a really good business

337
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,640
friend.
Like when you are an

338
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,960
entrepreneur, you often feel
like you're on an island by

339
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,400
yourself and nobody else
understands what it's like to

340
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,080
live on that island.
And, and for the most part,

341
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,920
that's that's sort of true.
Like you can talk to accountants

342
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,520
and lawyers and they think they
know, but they don't know.

343
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,400
Like nobody knows except another
entrepreneur.

344
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,680
And so I had a small circle of
people that I would talk to and

345
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,800
you know, often times Jonathan
and I would just bitch about PRG

346
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,360
for an hour or we'd an hour, you
know, sometimes too, you know,

347
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,280
it just depended what they did
that week.

348
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,160
But you know, we'd talk about
what's going on in the industry,

349
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,600
what's happening with pricing,
what's happening with whatever

350
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,680
it was.
But we'd talk like we never had

351
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,360
an NDA, but we would talk
extremely transparently and

352
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,280
openly about our own businesses,
about other businesses, about

353
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,320
people sometimes.
And I trusted him implicitly

354
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,360
that it was never going to come
back on me.

355
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:24,200
And he was the same with me and.
So I shouldn't tell you about

356
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,240
the time that you and he were
not just kidding.

357
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,320
Yeah, I would believe that from
a lot of people, but not not

358
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,280
from Jonathan, No.
So I'll tell you a funny story,

359
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,600
though.
That happened one time because I

360
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,840
used to, Every time I came to
New York, I always made a point

361
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,560
of stopping by Barbizon and, and
going out to lunch with

362
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,920
Jonathan, or at least sitting
and talking for an hour in his

363
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,200
office.
And so I was on my way to a

364
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,560
meeting with somebody, a
designer or something, and I had

365
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,080
45 minutes to kill, I think.
And so I said, you know what,

366
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,680
I'm going to swing by Barbizon
and just see if Jonathan's

367
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,560
around.
And so I jump out of the taxi

368
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,080
and I'm out of the taxi.
I got my suitcase in one hand

369
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,080
and my backpack in the other
hand and I did the pocket check

370
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,840
for my phone and left it in the
taxi.

371
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,840
And I turn around and just as I
turn around for one moment, that

372
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,880
road in front of Barbizon is
clear.

373
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,920
And this guy was able to drive
away, right?

374
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,560
And so I'm trying to call the
taxi company.

375
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,320
I'm trying to call, you know,
the New York Taxi Commission.

376
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,200
I'm trying because the last
thing on earth you want to lose

377
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,360
is your cell phone.
And back then, it was probably a

378
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,120
little tougher to replace one
than it is today, You know,

379
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:39,760
where it's all in the cloud and
you just hook up a new phone and

380
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,520
boom, it's got all your stuff in
it, right?

381
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,240
So finally I'm like, well, why
don't I just call my phone?

382
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,600
Maybe he'll answer it.
And I called it about 10 times

383
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,200
and on the 10th time he answered
it and I said, can you bring it

384
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,400
back to me?
I'll give you some cash.

385
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:59,120
And he goes, how much really?
And I said 50 bucks and he goes

386
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,760
100.
And I'm like, I'm thinking you

387
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:09,160
MF uh, but you know, truth be
told, I would have paid 200.

388
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,640
Sure.
And so I said fine, you know, I

389
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,280
wasn't happy about it, but I was
thinking and he's like, hey,

390
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,040
I've already gone over the
bridge, you know, I need $100.

391
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,040
And so, you know, Resnick was
laughing at me, of course.

392
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,360
And, and the guy came back with
my phone and I gladly gave him

393
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:28,520
100 bucks and he went on his
way.

394
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,400
So anyways.
Love him to New York.

395
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,680
Yeah, you were there quite a
long time, right?

396
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,360
You were at at Barbizon, I think
in different roles.

397
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:45,680
I started Barbizon in 20 O1 and
left in 2016.

398
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,400
Is that right?
Oh, no, no, no, wait a minute.

399
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,840
That's when I was systems
manager.

400
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,920
I started at Barbizon in 1994.
Yeah.

401
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,960
Yeah, so 23 years is what I wow,
played it out.

402
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,560
So you you started first like
what as a?

403
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,600
Systems guy.
So systems division back when I

404
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,440
started was like 6 guys.
It was like Rick Leonberg, Bill

405
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:17,480
Cap, Steve Cullifer, Ed Hyatt
and Steve Gambino.

406
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,000
God rest his soul.
I think that was it.

407
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,120
Wasn't Gabby there yet?
No, no, Gabby's Gabby's a

408
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:26,280
youngster by comparison.
Yeah.

409
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,000
And that was it.
And so I was hired actually to

410
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,600
be a systems guy.
But back then, Barbizon really

411
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,440
didn't know what systems was
about.

412
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,920
They were over inflated box
goods guys.

413
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,320
And really, Systems for Barbizon
back then was a mean to sell

414
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,760
more lamps.
We'll sell all these lighting

415
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,560
fixtures to a studio or to
whomever, you know what, then

416
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,080
they're going to need lamps.
Yeah.

417
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,480
And so that was really what it
was about.

418
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,520
But I remember we were in Las
Vegas and we were sitting in a

419
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,080
restaurant, all of us, and we
were reinventing Barbizon,

420
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,320
getting more drunk and more
boisterous.

421
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,200
And if you hear Jonathan over a
right hand corner saying

422
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,760
bathroom, bathroom, think of the
bathroom.

423
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,400
You used to always see these
bathroom discussions about

424
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,560
careful what you say in the
bathroom because somebody's

425
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,800
going to hear it and then you're
right, blah, blah, blah.

426
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,640
So.
Was it during an LDI or

427
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,720
something where the X table?
Would probably be it was our pre

428
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,640
show speech when you're out with
folks, don't get drunk and don't

429
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,760
you know, whatever you say
anyway.

430
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,760
And so I started act actually
out as a systems guy in the

431
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:47,040
Washington office and did that
for about, I don't know, two 2-3

432
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,080
years.
And Jonathan again, I was

433
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,440
getting itchy feet and I really
want to do more and help the

434
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,320
company bigger and better.
And he invented that.

435
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,680
I was going to be the Southeast
regional manager for Barbers on,

436
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,960
which meant that I helped with
Charlotte because I was just

437
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:11,240
starting up and Atlanta and that
was up and running and Florida,

438
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,960
which was one of the
granddaddies of all the

439
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,600
Barbizans.
And so I did that for a while

440
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,760
and.
At that time, was Florida just

441
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,120
Orlando or was Miami open
already too?

442
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,040
Actually, further back than
that, it was West Palm, right?

443
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,080
Yeah.
And Miami, yeah.

444
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,640
So I think Iron Perez started
the West, started the Miami

445
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,720
office, right?
And West Palm was the

446
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,960
headquarters of Barbasan,
Florida.

447
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,320
And then that eventually
gravitated over to Miami.

448
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:49,320
But, and then after a while we
decided we're going to hire a, a

449
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,040
director of systems because now
there was maybe 10 other people.

450
00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:01,720
And we hired Tim Bachman, who's
with Altman, I believe.

451
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,480
Yeah, left Coast and he lasted a
little bit of time.

452
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:13,640
And then we hired Mike Griffith,
who had just left, ETC, and came

453
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,720
to work for Barbazon.
And then he left.

454
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,560
And then I became the director
of systems.

455
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,480
But really what along the way,
my impact on Barbazon, if if

456
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,920
anything were to be of
significant was the the creation

457
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,560
of the project management
phenomena within Barbizon

458
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,280
because again, we were big, we
just boxed goods guys and they

459
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,720
really didn't understand the
sales agenda for Barbizon.

460
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,960
So they figured, well, you know,
yes, you're looking at those

461
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,000
plans, etc, but can you also
handle the customer at the

462
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,640
counter?
Yeah, in a little tough.

463
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,760
And then also when you sell a
systems, it was like a box good

464
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,640
system.
So you sold a system.

465
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,960
So now you're going to project
management and you're going to

466
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,040
go into the field.
And it was a whole cradle to

467
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,120
Gray phenomenon.
Somewhere along the line

468
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,400
actually, specifically, we were
at a systems meeting in Boston

469
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,760
and there was a guy who did a
presentation about being a

470
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,480
project manager and you're like,
what's that thing?

471
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,600
And it really resonated for me
that if we had project managers,

472
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,960
the salespeople who are really
good salespeople could go on and

473
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,920
continue to sell stuff and hand
the job off to a person who

474
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,320
could be the project manager.
That makes sense, yeah.

475
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,440
It does, doesn't it?
That was heresy.

476
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,560
Because that meant that person
wasn't selling anything.

477
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,960
And then Barbazon, you sold
something always.

478
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,320
That's how you made your money,
right?

479
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,760
This person was strictly
overhead.

480
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,360
No, no, no, no.
This can't work.

481
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,760
Well, John Howdy, who was the
general manager of Washington at

482
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:49,920
the time, was all ears and we
did it and we hired a project

483
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:55,800
manager who actually was Tom
Kennedy, who is now the owner of

484
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,720
Act Three and ETC,
representative, the Mid-Atlantic

485
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,280
and great guy, terrible project
manager.

486
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,840
Yeah.
And yes, Tom, I did say that.

487
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,000
Well, at the time was was
production arts like sort of the

488
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,920
North Star.
Yes, I would say so.

489
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Yes, Steve Terry, I think was
still there.

490
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,320
So yeah, Production Arts was the
North Star and they were the big

491
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,480
kids.
And you know, they they, well,

492
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,280
they were doing it as I'm
describing it.

493
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,200
I wasn't aware of the intimacy
of intimacy, I should say, of

494
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,800
the way PA handled themselves,
but I just saw this guy doing

495
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,120
project management and started
it off in Barbizon and it's

496
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,040
grown ever since.
So now there's project managers,

497
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,760
there are technicians, etc.
And I think that's all what led

498
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,040
them to where they are today,
which is quite the behemoth in

499
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,040
the systems world.
Yeah, yeah, no.

500
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,880
And I remember so production
arts I think sold to PRG around

501
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,040
like 9798 time was there.
Something else in there though

502
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,880
cuz it seems like they were
doing alphabet soup for a while.

503
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,280
PA to PRG to something else I
forget.

504
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,040
Yeah, I mean, it's now.
PRG.

505
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,480
Yeah.
Well, yeah.

506
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,360
So at the time it was, I think
production arts was meant to be

507
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,520
sort of the, the, that side of
the business and, and light and

508
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,280
sound design was the rock'n'roll
side of the business.

509
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,080
And but that went away pretty
quickly.

510
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,360
Scenic, what was it called?
What was that company called?

511
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,600
Scenic something or other?
His, his other company, Jerry's

512
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,520
other company.
I can't even remember.

513
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:46,160
But yeah, that went away and it
just just became PRG And, and I

514
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,600
mean, one of the things that's
always been kind of sad and

515
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,640
remarkable to me is how quickly
production arts disappeared.

516
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,840
You know, like how you've got
this great company that really

517
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,720
is the gold standard of the
industry from a, you know, from

518
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:10,320
a integration standpoint I guess
and just disappeared like gone

519
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,920
completely gone.
Well, I think there were a lot

520
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,040
of people nipping at their
heels, Yeah.

521
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,280
And I think, I don't know if
this is accurate, but yeah, I

522
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,480
definitely think so.
I don't know this is accurate,

523
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,960
but I think when Steve Terry
left and went to ETC, that he

524
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,640
was like the underpinnings.
Yeah, to me from for sure, yeah.

525
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:34,960
Looking in that he going to him
going to ETC was pretty, pretty

526
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,000
tough on them, if you would, in
terms of talent.

527
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,360
And they had a lot of talent.
But yeah, I, I've even watched

528
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,680
Barbazon over the, over the
years, see other companies start

529
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,400
hedging in on, on their
territory and thinking, yeah, I

530
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,680
could do that too.
And some of them were quite

531
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,320
successful at it and are now to
this day, I call them baby

532
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,160
Barbazons.
But then I'm, I'm biased, but,

533
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,120
you know, doing systems
integration has evolved I think

534
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440
a lot over the years.
It's gotten more sophisticated.

535
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,320
The technology has certainly got
a lot more sophisticated.

536
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,440
Yeah.
And jobs have gotten bigger.

537
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:23,080
Jobs have gotten more video.
I remember I got it $51,000 job

538
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,320
shortly after I started and I
was like.

539
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,920
Wow, Yeah, this is great.
Look at me.

540
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,920
Look at rain and that.
Was Yeah, yeah, now that the

541
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,840
wire order is bigger than that,
you.

542
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840
Know yeah, absolutely,
absolutely.

543
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,760
So I mean, the the the industry
has changed.

544
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,120
I still think there's a lot of
players and some very good

545
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,360
players.
Some of them actually have

546
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,040
decided to to stop at sort of,
we'll call it the second tier,

547
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,680
like a high school level.
Although it's $1,000,000 job,

548
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,840
it's still not a $10 million
job.

549
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,680
And I think that has to do with
the financial wherewithal of a

550
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,920
company to be able to bond it.
Yeah, to be able to have the

551
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,600
talent for it, you know, if you
really had to step up the plate.

552
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,400
Yeah, it's a good point.
Like, I've seen a lot of small

553
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,840
companies go after big jobs.
And there's a reason that you're

554
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,680
probably not supposed to do that
because when something goes

555
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,080
wrong and, and you don't have
the wherewithal, you know, to

556
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,680
take care of that problem or
whatever.

557
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,240
Like when you're leaning
entirely on the suppliers to

558
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,080
provide you the credit to make
it so that that job can even

559
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,560
fly.
And I know way too many

560
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,480
companies who do that.
Yeah, that's a little bit scary.

561
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,440
You know 1 little thing goes
wrong and and lawsuits are

562
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,240
flying.
Yeah, exactly.

563
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,520
And there's no way out of it.
And effectively, I mean, you can

564
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,080
file bankruptcy, but that's what
it would be.

565
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,040
Yeah.
I mean, you have the contract,

566
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,200
everybody's expecting this is
what's going to happen.

567
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,840
And yeah, no, not so much.
Yeah, I remember when Chris

568
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,560
Roberts was the CFO of Barbizon
and I would present him with the

569
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,960
$1,000,000 job.
He was like, you know, what's

570
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,400
how badly can we get hurt?
Can we afford this?

571
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,800
Because Barbazon was seven
different companies, is that

572
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,520
right?
Each individual had its own

573
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,120
incorporation.
So there was Barbazon, Delta,

574
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,560
Barbazon, Atlanta, Barbazon,
whatever, whatever.

575
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:22,960
I remember that, yeah.
Yeah.

576
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,120
And so the company, the small
company, could really get

577
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,159
crushed by a job going sideways.
Yeah, the mothership was OK,

578
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:35,120
but, you know, they weren't
shuttling money around from 1:00

579
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,280
to the other, per SE, to ensure
that everything was shored up.

580
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,679
So it's funny how we had that
dichotomy.

581
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,960
Well, and the other thing is, at
least at the time, and I think

582
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,600
still today, systems
integration, the margins are

583
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,520
generally so small because
everyone is like, well, I can

584
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,159
sell you, ETC.
It cost -3%, you know, 3%.

585
00:34:56,159 --> 00:35:01,320
That's nothing I can do cost
-6%, you know, I mean, we're so

586
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,880
willing to throw away money when
the buyer is a billion dollar

587
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,760
company, you know, it's
ridiculous.

588
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,000
Well, you saw that happen with
the Source 4.

589
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,280
I mean, the Source 4 was in the
commodity a month after it came

590
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,920
out.
People were selling it almost at

591
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,880
cost.
And we're like, you idiots, why

592
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,160
are you doing that?
This is such a unique project

593
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,120
product.
You could be selling it almost

594
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,640
at least.
Oh, no, I got it, you know, And

595
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,520
everybody wanted to play, as you
say, a run to the bottom.

596
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,240
Yeah, it hurt the industry, and
I think it still actually hurts

597
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,320
the industry in many ways.
Moving lights, that's another

598
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:33,880
one.
Yeah.

599
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:37,400
You know, making five points in
a moving light package, that's a

600
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,160
good day.
Yeah, I mean, every end user

601
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,160
knows what dealer cost is on
every fixture, every console.

602
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,440
You know, it's like try getting
anywhere near retail for AMA3

603
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,320
console, you know, right.
And I mean, everyone knows what

604
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,720
they can buy it for, and
somebody will sell it to them

605
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,120
for that just to keep their
dealership or to be able to pay

606
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,640
their bill at the end of the
month or whatever it is, right?

607
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,160
Yep.
So yeah, I was the guy who

608
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,040
called.
ETC And said do you know what

609
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,520
they sold that job at?
Do you know you can't?

610
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,440
And they would go, yeah, I'm
really sorry.

611
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:12,880
Click.
We still got the order though,

612
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:13,920
didn't we?
Yeah.

613
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,880
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
getting crazier today.

614
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,760
I had a conversation yesterday
with someone.

615
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,360
One of the problems today is
that this direct to consumer

616
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,480
model is, is a much bigger
concern than dealers willing to

617
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,200
sell at cost.
Because you know, by my

618
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,960
calculations, probably in 2024,
if I were to guess, call it in

619
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:45,040
our range of the industry and if
you mix together audio and

620
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,800
lighting, I would say that on
Amazon alone, there were

621
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:57,080
probably 4, five, $6 billion in
sales last year on DTC products.

622
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,440
And that's moving lights and
consoles and whatever.

623
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,160
And it's, it's to me like this
is a bigger concern.

624
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,280
I, I wouldn't be as worried
about whether or not the dealers

625
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,120
are making their full markup.
I'd be worried about, you know,

626
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,800
whether or not there's going to
be a market outside of DTC

627
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,920
China, you know, because the
fixtures are so cheap and, you

628
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,880
know, an end consumer, an end
buyer.

629
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,600
If, if it's an install, for
example, it's, it's going to

630
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,760
become really hard to convince
them that they'll sell more

631
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,920
museum tickets if if they buy a
$10,000 moving light than if

632
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,880
they buy a 2000 or a $500 moving
light.

633
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,840
Yeah.
And just buy double the number

634
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,800
of them so that you've got loads
of spares for the next few years

635
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,480
and then just replace the system
again.

636
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,800
Yep, absolutely right.
And and I was fighting that

637
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:56,600
before I left, but at ETC asking
them to do the map pricing that

638
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,640
yeah, you cannot publish this
any lower than X.

639
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,640
And that meant everybody.
And if you got somebody, yeah,

640
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,000
I'm the guy making that phone
call saying do you know that so

641
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,520
and so posted this on Amazon, it
blah, blah blah, blah, blah

642
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,880
blah, blah.
And that worked that well, but

643
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,680
there's still the whole online
sales, which isn't direct to

644
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,840
consumer, but it's pretty thug
on a close because they don't

645
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,440
have necessarily bricks and
mortar in a location that you're

646
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,920
trying to sell in.
Yeah.

647
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,680
So the argument was always made.
Go ahead, buy it from them.

648
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,440
I'm glad it's cheaper.
However, don't call me when it

649
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,960
all goes sideways.
And that has a lot of

650
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,400
credibility in some instances,
but no credibility in other

651
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:37,960
instances.
Well.

652
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,600
When it depends on the spread
too, like if you're talking

653
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,880
about a 10 or 15% difference in
price, sure, you know my

654
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,440
relationship with you Bill and
and your great support and

655
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,520
everything, it's worth paying
15% more when you're talking

656
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,920
about 400% more.
You know, now I'm going Bill,

657
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,160
are you OK?
Like what the hell?

658
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,080
Why would I buy this stuff from?
You because you love me.

659
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:07,520
Because you love me So, yeah, I
mean, I think that obviously the

660
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,160
president that's coming in is
gonna make it a little more

661
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,400
complicated with the tariffs.
It's gonna make a joke in my

662
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,720
covey.
And, you know, tariffs in in

663
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,240
some sense might work and in
other sense they won't.

664
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,480
The other thing is companies are
already moving their

665
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,360
manufacturing out of China into
Taiwan or into Indonesia or into

666
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,800
Malaysia or Vietnam or whatever.
And they'll continue doing that.

667
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,760
And then they'll move to Mexico
and then they'll move to

668
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,960
wherever.
So for a little while, we'll

669
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:39,680
play chase the tariff game.
And but I mean, ultimately it's

670
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,520
a problem.
I think it's a problem for every

671
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,920
industry.
It's a problem for the car

672
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,120
industry.
And you know, like, I don't know

673
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,960
if you paid attention during
COVID to all the Mike Strickland

674
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,760
stuff that was being said,
whether it was on my podcasts or

675
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,440
elsewhere, about the fact that
our industry is small and very

676
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:02,920
separated, very segmented.
And so, like his classic line

677
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,680
was the airline industry, the
big industries were showing up

678
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,920
at Congress.
With battleships and our

679
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,520
industry was showing up with
1000 little canoes.

680
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,400
Yeah, right.
And you know you don't have a

681
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:21,120
voice at that point and so when
you're looking at is this a big

682
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,640
problem for the lighting
business?

683
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,400
Yes, it is.
But the lighting business is a

684
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,640
blip.
You know, it's nothing compared

685
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,520
to the auto industry, right?
If the auto industry starts

686
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,680
screaming, saying hey, these,
these electric cars coming in

687
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,400
direct from China for three or
$4000 are disrupting our

688
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,040
industry completely right now,
you got a problem, right?

689
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:41,680
Right.
Right.

690
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,720
So and some countries just block
it all together.

691
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,360
I don't know that that's the
answer.

692
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,360
I'm more of an open market kind
of guy.

693
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,560
But there does need to be some
sort of balance or regulation

694
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,400
when they're paying, you know, a
dollar or $0.50 an hour for

695
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,400
wages and we're paying $30.00 an
hour for wages.

696
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,680
You got to do something to
offset that.

697
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,440
Yep.
And two interesting

698
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:10,000
conversations at LDI about this.
One said, we know it's coming

699
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,600
and we're banking and putting
inventory in the US that will

700
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:19,520
help us erode the impact that
that might have and building up

701
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,920
their inventory.
The other one said, yeah, I've

702
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,760
talked to my compadres wrong
choice of words I guess.

703
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,320
But in China and they're just
going to absorb the tariff they

704
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,040
did, they can, they can do that
within their margin and keep the

705
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,560
price the same.
So.

706
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,120
Here's what the tariff is.
I think I, you know, if it's a

707
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,720
50 or 100% tariff, then you're
going to run into some trouble

708
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,360
on that.
Yeah.

709
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,240
I mean, that's going to be an
interesting watch.

710
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:53,000
You know, again, I'm, I didn't
see it coming as far as people

711
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,560
buying moving lights, LED moving
lights on Amazon.com or on

712
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,520
Facebook and I didn't see that
coming.

713
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,840
But it's happening in a really
big way right now.

714
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,880
Like people rental companies are
buying direct to consumer

715
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:13,800
Chinese moving lights for two
$300 that replace Martin lights

716
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,280
that would have cost $3000,
right?

717
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,920
And they're just like I buy a
few extra spares and they work

718
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,480
great, they're fine.
When I was Barbizon, we had a

719
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,560
manufacturer that we were
dealing with and there was a lot

720
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,480
of out-of-the-box failures and
yet we just would turn around,

721
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,160
get the new one back again.
And so it was almost a

722
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,960
disposable commodity.
That's what they're doing.

723
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,200
I think that's that's what's
gonna happen more and more.

724
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,600
Yeah, it's sort of the
Amazonification, you know,

725
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,480
because that's how Amazon works.
You know, they, they make so

726
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,960
much money based on on scale
that, you know, when we have to.

727
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,880
That's why they've got such a
liberal return policy.

728
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,200
You know, they don't care.
Like your product gets shipped

729
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,600
back to Nowheresville and
somebody buys containers of

730
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,920
these returned products and they
don't know whether you sent back

731
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,920
a box with a rock in it or a box
with the the I was gonna say

732
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,040
razor, but you don't shave so.
A little bit, yeah.

733
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,520
But you know what I mean, like
it, they just they have margin

734
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,280
built in to withstand that and
and it's just a real disposable

735
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,600
marketplace and it's a little
bit scary.

736
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:23,920
It is.
Scary.

737
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,080
Don't know where it's gonna go.
Yeah.

738
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:27,760
Do you do you have thoughts on
AI?

739
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,880
My other favorite topic?
Favorite controversial topic?

740
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,400
Yeah.
I mean, considering we are in

741
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:42,280
the performing arts world where
we like to think that a lot of

742
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,560
our creativity is our
creativity.

743
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,840
Intellectual property.
Yeah, the fact that it can clone

744
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,280
that off almost better than you
can make it, it's very

745
00:43:54,280 --> 00:44:00,560
frightening.
I suppose AI will come to live

746
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,800
production in terms of, you
know, lighting and automation

747
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,680
and all those kind of things.
I haven't seen that cross server

748
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,960
yet.
Yeah, there still needs to be an

749
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,960
LD or a human driving the
production.

750
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,200
Hopefully that doesn't change,
but I know they'll downstream of

751
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,920
that human.
There's probably going to be a

752
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,240
lot more AI interfacing going
on.

753
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:33,240
I would be more concerned about
those making content, actors,

754
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:37,240
performers, voice overs,
photographs, all that kind of

755
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:41,040
stuff, Yeah, than what we do in
a live production.

756
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,120
But yeah, again, that's only a
small slice of what it is.

757
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,120
That's necessary.
Yeah, I agree with much of what

758
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,080
you just said.
I think the downstream,

759
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:56,320
downstream tasks and jobs are
probably more at immediate risk

760
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,000
than than the LD, the front of
house engineer, the production

761
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,120
manager, the director.
And you know, it's going to be

762
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,840
interesting to see how that all
works out.

763
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,040
You know, I, I tend to be a
cuppa's half full guy when it

764
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,320
comes to AII.
Use it everyday.

765
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,120
I use it a lot and I understand
it really well.

766
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,800
You know, part of it is I don't
want to be in the dark.

767
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,120
I don't want to be right.
You know, the boogeyman's

768
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,440
coming.
I don't want to be surprised by

769
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,200
any of the technology that's
coming.

770
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,120
So I try to stay pretty cutting
edge as far as my knowledge is

771
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,720
with AI.
Yep, And I've used it for

772
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:37,400
betterment of my own company.
I haven't let go of a single

773
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,680
employee because of AI yet.
Might I hire less employees in

774
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,640
the future?
100% I will.

775
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,000
But The thing is, a business
like mine is gonna go away in

776
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:55,200
the future if I don't adapt.
There's just gonna be better,

777
00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:01,520
easier, more efficient ways to
move product around than through

778
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,120
some of these clunky companies.
And so you're gonna have to

779
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,520
adapt to some of those things.
Yeah.

780
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,080
I mean I would definitely think
things that inventory control

781
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,640
and marketing and things like
that that could be semi

782
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,960
automated are going to greatly
benefit from.

783
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,200
AII wrote a grant application
not long ago and the response

784
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,640
back was you needed to make this
particular section sound more

785
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,160
appealing or whatever the
adjective was.

786
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,880
And I took everything that I
wrote, stucked it into ChatGPT

787
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,680
and it came out and I submitted
it and they said this is

788
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,880
fantastic.
And I was like, it's funny.

789
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,040
That would be that machine over
there.

790
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,160
Yeah, that's funny.
I mean, as you say, it's a tool.

791
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,640
It's a tool that you can use.
If you use it, then you'll be OK

792
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,840
with it.
If you don't use it, you won't.

793
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,880
I'll give you a simple analogy
from a 2 scene preset board to a

794
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:03,640
computer board.
I mean, there's light years of

795
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,200
growth in between all that, but
I remember living through all

796
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,000
that, the two scene preset world
for however many scenes it was

797
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:18,640
and was feeling liberated as a
designer when I had a computer

798
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,040
board and I can make any changes
I wanted to right after

799
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,840
Showtime.
Now, I didn't change necessarily

800
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,520
the placement of the queues, but
I kept working it and working it

801
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,360
and working it and fearless that
it was going to make the show

802
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,320
look wacky, right?
You know, it's all those little

803
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,360
subtleties within your queuing
that you can work over and over

804
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,880
again.
You know, I have a point here or

805
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,720
a little brighter there, right?
And there was a computer board

806
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:46,000
as opposed to somebody having
now, now you got to move your

807
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,520
fingers a little bit this way
instead of that way.

808
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,360
And there's no way they could
have possibly done that.

809
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,040
So again, it's a tool.
If you understand it, you can

810
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,280
use it.
You're gonna be that much better

811
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:58,960
off for it.
I agree with you.

812
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,600
And again, I don't think it's
something where it's like we

813
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,560
have a choice whether we're
gonna use it or not, or we have

814
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,120
a choice whether it's gonna do
things or not.

815
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,080
So I I listened to something
this morning.

816
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,800
Again, I'm a bit of a junkie
when it comes to this technology

817
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,280
and I listened to something.
This morning clarified that.

818
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,880
Yeah, I listened to something
this morning where it was

819
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,480
basically comparing artificial
general intelligence, which is

820
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,240
sort of the next major step,
which is basically AI is

821
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:36,400
sentient, meaning it it can make
itself smarter and it can it can

822
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,000
just do a lot more stuff.
Today it's basically at sort of

823
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,320
like a 9th or 10th grade level
when it comes to writing and

824
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,240
reading and all of those
functions that.

825
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,400
Just surpassed the majority of
the population.

826
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,920
Yeah, correct, Correct.
Yeah, You passed at least the

827
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:57,080
audio guys.
And, you know, very soon it'll

828
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:02,480
hit like people are predicting
anywhere from 2025 to 2027.

829
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:07,160
It'll hit what they're currently
calling AGI, artificial general

830
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,640
intelligence.
But they're already looking at

831
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:13,240
super intelligence.
And the definition of artificial

832
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:18,320
super intelligence is basically
10 times the smartest geniuses

833
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,560
on Earth.
And that's somewhere between

834
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,760
7:00 to 10 years by most
people's speculation right now.

835
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,240
And so we are absolutely going
to be the idiots in the room

836
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,640
very, very soon.
I mean, that's coming quickly.

837
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,480
Will it have feelings?
Not necessarily will it, you

838
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,840
know, like, I mean, there's
always going to be humans in the

839
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,360
loop.
But I think we determine what

840
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,600
our role is in, in sort of
future, the future world.

841
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,920
You know, we determine what our
role is based on our knowledge

842
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,760
and use of AI.
And if we're just ignorant to it

843
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,280
or we're scared of it and we
hide in the corner going, you

844
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,440
know, AI is bad.
I don't want anything to do with

845
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,920
it.
You know the bus is going to run

846
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,440
over you and so that's how I
kind of look at it.

847
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,920
Well, look at the Internet.
I mean, my, my mother, God rest

848
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,720
her, she was all about knowing
how to use e-mail.

849
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Yeah, I used to get the IT
support phone call every other

850
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:18,880
day.
My.

851
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,640
Brain is not.
Working And I, it's like, OK,

852
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:26,880
Mom, but my dad, who had worked
with computers for many, many

853
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,440
years, didn't want to use them
at all.

854
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,480
When he retired, he was like,
I'm done.

855
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:32,520
That's it.
Yeah.

856
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,520
Today, if you don't have an
e-mail, I don't care who you

857
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,960
are, you're really missing out
on a form of communication that

858
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,360
virtually everybody is doing.
I'll give you a quick analogy to

859
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,480
that.
We sent out invitations to a

860
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,600
Christmas Eve party in the mail.
Oh, my goodness.

861
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,680
In the mail and I got a phone
call going.

862
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,120
Aren't you having a party?
Yeah, well, we're looking

863
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,800
everywhere.
We look through our e-mail went

864
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,120
through our text, went through
our Facebook.

865
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,000
We couldn't find it anywhere.
That's a mailed it to you and

866
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,320
they're like, oh, OK.
I would have been that person.

867
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,680
By the way though, like I open
my mail every 10 days or

868
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,720
something.
Like I don't often open mail

869
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:17,040
because 99% of like all my bills
are all E done.

870
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,960
You know, all my bank statements
are E done.

871
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,720
Anything important doesn't come
through the mail.

872
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,280
I'm the same way, I just you're
sending out cards.

873
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,720
I thought it was a clever way of
inserting something into the

874
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:28,960
card.
Faxed it, Bill.

875
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,960
Maybe you should.
Have faxed it and E got the the

876
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,680
behind the scenes E electronic
Christmas card and yeah there

877
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,920
you go there you go yeah yeah
well I mean these days yeah you

878
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,960
use E vite or whatever all those
things are called where you.

879
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,840
And they and they tell you who's
coming when they manage what are

880
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,720
they bringing all that stuff.
Yeah.

881
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:50,720
And I've used them.
And I was just, it just was a

882
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,280
momentary brain, I guess.
Well, you know what those.

883
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,520
Side of my times.
I still like, I've, I've always

884
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,760
had this love of like
handwritten thank you cards, for

885
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,800
example, and mailing them to
people in the mail.

886
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,120
But again, we're running into a
delivery problem at this point

887
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,560
because people, you know, think
of a big building, like who's

888
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,640
delivering the mail in that big
building?

889
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,360
What's the chance they're going
to get it anytime soon?

890
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,440
And if they do, what's the
chance they're actually going to

891
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,320
open it and read it?
And so sometimes you're shooting

892
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,280
yourself in the foot, but just
by trying to be cool or unique

893
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:28,000
or interesting, and instead you
end up, you know, just not

894
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,560
getting delivered.
And if our new president has his

895
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,480
way, the Postal Service is going
to go away or, or is that a

896
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:34,760
lawn?
The vice president?

897
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,800
I mean, anyway, yeah, something
weird is going to happen for

898
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,400
sure.
But I mean, it does make those

899
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:46,400
analog reaches to people a lot
more precious when that happens.

900
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,920
I mean, I just had a
communication back and forth

901
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:55,640
with a guy and I was thrilled to
see and read a note from him

902
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,480
because I hadn't spoken to him
in quite a while.

903
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,840
So you know it's still there.
Yeah, still there.

904
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,240
So we kind of started at
Barbizon, but I know I think

905
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,360
your career started before that.
So how do you get going in this

906
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,240
wild and wonderful industry?
Well, I was bit by the theater

907
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,240
bug when I was in high school,
so I jumped into the performing

908
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:19,040
arts part of it, and then I
ended up doing some scenic

909
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,920
painting.
And then I went away to college

910
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,560
to become a art teacher and I
spent all my time in the theatre

911
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,560
department.
So I was flunking out of my

912
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,680
regular school.
Oh my goodness.

913
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,040
And then I switched majors to
theatre arts and went from

914
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,480
academic probation to the Dean's
list within one semester.

915
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,360
Wow.
And that was in Vermont, which

916
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,480
it was a small school, 1200
people.

917
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,040
We'd literally doubled the size
of the town when school was in

918
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,920
session.
But that size enabled me to do

919
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,800
stuff in the theater that
normally it would being done by

920
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,880
the upperclassmen or somebody
else.

921
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:00,800
Right.
Important.

922
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,200
And I was, I was the guy.
I said I want to do lighting

923
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,040
there and like, have at it.
Yeah.

924
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:11,320
And so I did.
And I a little funny story, if

925
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,200
you can imagine this body
stuffed into a Tutu with a

926
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,040
tanked up and whatever.
I was in a dance production and

927
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,040
I was the 70s, so I was.
Hang on a second.

928
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,760
I gotta just breathe deeply for
a moment.

929
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,080
A Tutu and a tank top.
Did you really just say that

930
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,720
though?
Not not Tutu, I mean a tank top

931
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:36,560
and tights that that's for
anyway typical male dance garb.

932
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,600
But at any rate, I was a heap of
garbage is what we ended up and

933
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,400
being on stage and looking up
and watching this 8 inch Fresnel

934
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,440
slowly dim.
I thought that's really that's

935
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,120
really cool.
I'm gonna go do that.

936
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,720
And again, small school.
They were like, go, go for it,

937
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:55,600
have at it.
So I was working on my 18

938
00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:01,960
channel, 3600 Watt Strand
Century 2 scene preset console

939
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:09,320
with 88 by 9 axial ellipsoidals
and 12 by 12 axial ellipsoidals.

940
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,160
These are the size of a torpedo.
Yeah, they were I guess 750

941
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,640
watts.
And then the on stage lights

942
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:22,000
were 8 inch fresnels.
They were by Strand, so at least

943
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,320
they were that.
Yeah.

944
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,080
And that's where it all started.
I was.

945
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:26,760
Pretty cutting edge at that
time, no?

946
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,400
Probably, I guess, Right.
It was.

947
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,120
Yeah.
Another fun fact.

948
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:35,080
It was somebody was lowering the
12 by 12 ellipsoidal down to me

949
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,320
from the loading rail up above,
and the knot slipped.

950
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,280
And So what did I do?
I caught it.

951
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,280
Why my hand?
Didn't go through the lens.

952
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,120
I grabbed the yoke, I grabbed
the lens and I just bounced it

953
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,640
down.
Oh my goodness.

954
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,720
That's where I.
Am what that thing weigh?

955
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:59,240
Oh, God, I I can't even imagine.
Had to be 50 lbs or something

956
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:02,240
like that.
I mean, it was, it was, it was

957
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:06,240
as big as a torpedo and
certainly look like one, Yeah.

958
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,200
Anyway, did you pull anything
catching it?

959
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,240
No, actually.
That's a big catch, you know,

960
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:15,480
That's like catching your your
teenage son diving off the roof

961
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:16,720
of the house or something, you
know?

962
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:18,960
Pretty much, yeah.
Except more clumsy.

963
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,760
But you know, not thinking and
wanting to get the the lamp

964
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,320
fixture because we only had like
1212.

965
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:31,120
But at any rate, fortunately in
my college, we had a very active

966
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,960
dance program.
In the summer.

967
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,080
They transported a bunch of New
York City dance companies.

968
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:44,080
So Daniel Negron, Kate Dakai,
Mal Pate, several others came up

969
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,960
from New York in the summer and
I got to work with them as the

970
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,360
lighting guy.
Interesting.

971
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:54,000
And that was kind of a
interesting moment in time.

972
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:59,000
I had discovered red, blue and
green front light and how cool

973
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,560
that was.
And some of them thought that

974
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,240
was brilliant.
And some of them thought, that's

975
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:05,880
terrible.
I can't see their faces.

976
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,160
I'm like, oh, I'll just make it
brighter.

977
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:08,680
And that, of course, made them
just pinker.

978
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,240
But, but at any rate, it did
that.

979
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:15,640
And then I rolled around Vermont
for many years as a lighting

980
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,560
designer, mostly for dance.
And it ended up being a big fish

981
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,680
in a small pond.
But I did a bunch of dance

982
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:26,120
companies in Vermont, and then
in 1980 I left.

983
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,680
I went into industrial sales,
totally unrelated industry.

984
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,160
Did that for a while and then.
Just needed to make some money

985
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,680
for a minute.
Yes, well, exactly right.

986
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:41,040
I wanted to have a family and I
was starving artists in Vermont.

987
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,560
And so we moved down to
Maryland.

988
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,280
And while here, a friend of mine
asked me if I wanted to do an

989
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,560
industrial for Avon.
And I said sure.

990
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,680
And I was in DC and I went down
and I hung lights and focus

991
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,880
lights, and it was like putting
on your favorite flannel shirt.

992
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,720
It was like, this is exactly how
it should feel.

993
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,680
Yeah.
And so I then went into, how can

994
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,120
I get back into this?
Ended up working at a local

995
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:14,760
Community College in technical
theater as the TD hit the glass

996
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,720
ceiling there.
Went to University of Maryland,

997
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,440
got a mythical Fine Arts degree
and lighting design rolled

998
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,840
around Washington, DC, doing all
kinds of lighting for you name

999
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,040
it.
That's where I ended up working

1000
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,200
with Hal Binkley, which was,
wow, Yeah.

1001
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,720
A gas in and of itself.
Yeah.

1002
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,640
He was a monster.
This is the early Hal Binkley.

1003
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,280
Yeah.
So I was in Graduate School and

1004
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:44,680
he was doing the much to do
about nothing, which was the

1005
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,080
Lance Shakespeare's Theater
companies grand opening at the

1006
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,880
Landsberg Theatre.
So this was their inaugural

1007
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,800
production.
And he wasn't famous yet though,

1008
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,200
right?
Like he did, you know who he was

1009
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,400
prior to working with him?
I knew he was a Broadway

1010
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,440
designer, blah, blah, blah.
I think shortly thereafter he

1011
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,280
did kiss of the Spider Woman.
Yeah.

1012
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:08,880
Yeah.
I don't know.

1013
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,800
I didn't watch the metrics of
his career to see how it grew,

1014
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,080
but I do know he was a hotshot.
Yeah.

1015
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,920
And he made that known.
Yeah.

1016
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:23,000
I mean, he literally came in
just from some theater and just

1017
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:27,160
barely made it to the focus.
And I was his assistant.

1018
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,720
And that's where the reality hit
the fan.

1019
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,760
Cuz I was he, I don't know how
many lights he had in the air.

1020
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,800
He had a bazillion.
He had every freaking light that

1021
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,520
they had bought, every freaking
dimmer that was on.

1022
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,840
This is back in the
incandescent's land, obviously.

1023
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,280
Yeah.
And I was running the plot for

1024
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,560
him during focus, and he could
focus a light faster than I

1025
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,840
could blink.
And he was just like, come on,

1026
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,160
come on, come on, come on, come
on.

1027
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:56,840
I had four electricians working
simultaneously in various parts

1028
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,960
of the theatre, and he was just
booking it.

1029
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,520
And that some of them had
already worked with him, so they

1030
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:08,280
knew it was up against.
Yeah, Marcel, I literally was an

1031
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,840
information overload.
I I was like, I just went.

1032
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,080
Tilt.
Wow.

1033
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:17,280
I just like, well, did you, did
you carry anything out of that

1034
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:22,760
though?
Yes, actually working with Mr.

1035
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,240
Binkley, he taught me how to
look.

1036
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,920
Yeah, he taught me go to the
theater.

1037
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:30,760
Don't look at how they do it.
Don't.

1038
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,680
Don't just absorb what the
lighting designer's doing.

1039
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,240
Not don't put your head on the
swivel and try to figure it out

1040
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,400
while you're looking at it.
Just, which was a great lesson

1041
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,760
when the first time I went to
Cirque du Soleil show because,

1042
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:45,320
you know, you're like, how the
fuck?

1043
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,840
Oh, and focus.
Yeah.

1044
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:56,560
And again, that was first
experience with them was in

1045
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:00,560
Mystere and I was down close and
it was a USITT and we had

1046
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,640
tickets that were down close.
And I, I was watching this show

1047
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,760
as I was instructed to do so.
And I again, I was an

1048
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,320
information overload between the
audio and the visual and the

1049
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,360
costumes and the lighting and
everything.

1050
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,240
I was just like, oh.
My God, that's a lot.

1051
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,240
That's a lot to take in, yeah.
It was a lot to take in, but at

1052
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:23,560
any rate, no, I survived.
Every so often I would see him

1053
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:25,600
at a trade show and say, Hey,
Hal, how are you?

1054
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,040
And you'd go do you, do you the
guy?

1055
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:28,320
And I was like, Yep, that was
me.

1056
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,320
You never worked with him again
after that.

1057
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,360
No.
Well, I stayed.

1058
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,280
So you made quite an impression,
Bill.

1059
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:38,840
I think there were people lining
up to work with.

1060
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,640
Mr. McCoy Yeah, and I was.
Right here.

1061
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,760
And I was somewhat
geographically constricted

1062
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,600
because at that point I was the
estranged parent from my

1063
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,960
children, so I didn't want to go
all over the world and follow

1064
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:52,600
him around.
Yeah, I wasn't going to go to

1065
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:53,920
New York City.
Yeah.

1066
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,800
So.
So I stayed local and eventually

1067
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,040
I ended up working for Barbizon
and that was because again,

1068
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,920
paying the bills.
I was a freelance have gun will

1069
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,200
hire.
I worked at TD at Source

1070
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:14,560
Theatre, at the Landsberg, at
Studio Theatre Arena, you name

1071
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:15,680
it.
I was a hired gun.

1072
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,880
I was doing all right, but
again, the the bills were

1073
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,320
mounting and credit.
The allure of a grumpy The

1074
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,280
allure of a steady paycheck.
Can be quite strong, yeah.

1075
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:31,920
And so Barbizon called and the
guy who I end up replacing was

1076
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,560
moving to Charlotte.
And I said OK.

1077
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,600
And so I started working for
Barbizon for like, you know, 5

1078
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,920
digit salary with my 25,000 or
something big like that.

1079
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,520
And I thought, well, that's
cool, that's a regular paycheck.

1080
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,480
And I did that for a while, and
then I got tired of commuting

1081
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:56,960
from where I live in Havey Grace
to Alexandria, VA, which is 89

1082
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,280
miles one way.
And I found a job working for

1083
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:06,600
Bill Furman, who was doing
electoral control.

1084
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,960
Electoral controls, not the guys
out in Seattle.

1085
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,560
But at any rate, he was a local
Demi manufacturer.

1086
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,320
He had red dimmer packs.
That's all I can remember.

1087
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:20,840
Yeah, and he was offering me big
bucks and I could stay here and

1088
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:22,840
I could work from home and so
forth and so on.

1089
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:24,000
And be what?
A sales guy.

1090
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:24,520
Sales.
Right.

1091
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,800
And be, yeah, be a sales guy
because I had a, you know, track

1092
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,880
record sort of with Barbazon at
this point.

1093
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:36,160
And so I went in to quit and I
called Steve Cullifer and my

1094
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,280
general manager wasn't there.
So I spoke to Steve and I said

1095
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,480
I, I love you guys, but I'm, I'm
going to leave.

1096
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,200
He said, well, I wish you well.
Do you mind if I call Jonathan?

1097
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,240
And I said no, go ahead,
Marcellus, God is my witness.

1098
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,960
I hung up the phone and it went
ring ring and I picked it up and

1099
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,920
it was Jonathan.
Yeah, you're not going anywhere.

1100
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,720
What do you think you're going?
Well, I I you know, I don't have

1101
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,640
to go to Alexandria every week,
work from home.

1102
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:09,720
But I don't have a computer.
Buy a computer.

1103
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:11,880
Well, it's more money.
How much?

1104
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,920
OK, yeah.
And I was so flabbergasted by

1105
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:20,120
this man.
Yeah, that I said OK, yeah.

1106
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,560
And then 23 years.
Later.

1107
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,440
Yeah.
Well, I mean, obviously he saw

1108
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:27,880
something in you, which is an
incredible talent for any CEO or

1109
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,880
founder or entrepreneur is to,
you know, it's one of the most

1110
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,360
important talents is finding
people, finding the right people

1111
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,440
that are going to make a
difference in your business and

1112
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,840
and then keeping those people.
And so he did a great job of

1113
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,880
doing that, obviously answering
the checking the boxes that

1114
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:45,880
were, you know, problems for
you.

1115
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:47,720
Yeah.
I mean, that's the strength that

1116
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,440
he had for sure was he was, as I
call it, a humanitarian.

1117
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:55,400
You know he understood.
People he knew, people he knew

1118
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,840
what helped them.
He was always helping people to

1119
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:00,320
a fault.
He would help people.

1120
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,080
Yeah.
I've saw many an employee being

1121
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:08,160
in a very difficult situation
where most might have let him go

1122
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,640
and.
And he was like, no, I what do

1123
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,520
you need?
Here's some more money you need.

1124
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,120
Take time off.
Take whatever you need.

1125
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,400
Yeah.
I mean, he was just an amazing

1126
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:21,200
man in that regard.
Yeah, so I, I miss that dude.

1127
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,480
Like I said to you earlier, I I
really miss him.

1128
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:28,280
I always enjoyed talking to him.
I would hang up on anyone to

1129
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:33,160
take Jonathan's call anytime.
And, you know, a lot of those

1130
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,120
problems, like where he said,
you said he was solving problems

1131
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:37,720
for people and helping them and
stuff.

1132
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,560
Like we talk about some of those
things.

1133
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:41,520
Yeah.
And you know, what do you think

1134
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:42,960
about this?
What do you think about this?

1135
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:44,760
And, you know, I come from
Canada.

1136
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:49,600
So I think, you know, at at
heart, I'm a a pretty liberal

1137
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,440
person and and I like to help
people.

1138
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,880
I don't like people to be going
through tough times and stuff.

1139
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,440
So I tend to give more than I
can sometimes.

1140
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,440
And I think Jonathan was
similar, yes.

1141
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,960
So yeah, yeah.
So I mean you had a 20, what,

1142
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,120
23?
23 with them, yeah, that's why.

1143
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:11,320
And leaving barbers on was one
of the most difficult things I

1144
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,000
think I've ever done in my
career, for sure.

1145
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,600
I just kind of reached the point
at which I could not function

1146
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:25,240
effectively for them and I just
decided to move on.

1147
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:31,240
Not I wasn't looking proverbial
wasn't looking, but I was a guy

1148
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:36,120
locally and I got the phone call
from Tom Kennedy who was looking

1149
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,400
for a person for Act 3, which is
a ETC Rep.

1150
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,360
And I said, well, there's this
person and that person.

1151
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,160
And I said, well, how much you
offering?

1152
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,520
And it was an interesting
number.

1153
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,920
And I said, well, how much
vacation time do you give?

1154
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,200
Yeah.
And he said take whatever you

1155
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,120
need.
And I was like.

1156
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,760
Wow.
That's interesting.

1157
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:56,480
Yeah.
That's interesting.

1158
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:59,800
And Barbazon, I capped out at
like 3 weeks.

1159
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:01,640
I think it's much more liberal
than that now.

1160
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,840
Maybe.
Yeah, but I capped out at three

1161
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,680
weeks like a decade earlier.
Yeah.

1162
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:11,960
And so we kept talking and, you
know, you can be a partner and

1163
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,280
blah, blah, blah, blah and, you
know, make it rain.

1164
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:20,520
And so I went to work for Act 3
and it was a tough goal.

1165
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,680
It was a really tough goal.
I think we both cried like

1166
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,720
babies.
Jonathan Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1167
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:28,400
He tried to talk you out of it
again.

1168
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:30,760
Yeah, yeah.
What can I do?

1169
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,720
Why didn't you come to me first?
So it's always what he says for

1170
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:35,440
Yeah.
Why didn't you come to me first?

1171
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:41,080
Yeah, just some underlying
things that just couldn't, you

1172
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,240
know, And if I dwelled on the
vacation thing long enough, he

1173
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:45,680
would like, I think he actually
did.

1174
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,440
He said, wait, take more time.
I don't care.

1175
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:48,600
You could take whatever you
need.

1176
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,960
Yeah.
Anyway, and then unfortunately

1177
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,000
it was surely thereafter that he
passed and so I felt even worse.

1178
01:07:55,600 --> 01:08:00,400
Yeah, well, and you know, I can
understand the allure of being a

1179
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,960
Rep when you're in that
situation too, you know, because

1180
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,920
especially the ETC Rep, like, I
hate to say it, but how hard

1181
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,560
could that be?
You know, you're, you're you're

1182
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,240
selling crack to a crack addict
basically, right.

1183
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:20,240
And so, and I know I'm
downplaying how complicated it

1184
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,840
is, you need to know a lot about
systems, you know.

1185
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,319
Yeah, absolutely.
And I could put it all together

1186
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:28,040
for the whomever it was.
But I remember one thing when I

1187
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:35,760
went to an ETC workshop one day
that one summer, it's like all

1188
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:40,200
of the reps went in one room and
all the dealers went into

1189
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:41,720
another room.
Yeah.

1190
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,000
And all the dealers were having
a conversation about isn't it

1191
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,520
pretty to do this, that and the
other thing, while the real

1192
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,600
conversation about the industry
was happening over there.

1193
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,120
Yeah.
And I kind of felt like, so

1194
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,960
we're in the kids table while
that reps are having dinner with

1195
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,640
the adults.
That's funny.

1196
01:08:58,640 --> 01:08:59,960
And not that that funny, but
true.

1197
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:02,240
Yeah.
Not that that was really what

1198
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,520
I'm thinking.
That's I'm departing barbers on.

1199
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,399
But it was another challenge.
Yeah.

1200
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,880
And so I did the Rep thing for
five years, I guess it was,

1201
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:18,479
yeah.
And then I left Act 3 in

1202
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:26,200
December of the 23 on 31st, and
I had been working with Polly

1203
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:32,920
Sonic's, a theatrical audio
visual consultancy, providing

1204
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:34,680
them like plots basically.
OK.

1205
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:39,279
And I said to the owner who I
had a lot of respect for, hey,

1206
01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:43,160
if you want me to help you with
this after I retire, I'd be glad

1207
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,960
to.
The Wednesday before I was

1208
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,840
retiring from Barbizon, I got a
call from the guy I've been

1209
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:54,000
working with at that company who
said that he was leaving on the

1210
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,600
Monday after I retired.
I got the phone call.

1211
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,360
Hey, you know, you know that
thing that you were gonna do for

1212
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:01,040
me?
Yeah.

1213
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,520
Can you come do that now?
That's hilarious.

1214
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:05,560
Yeah.
And so I'm having my second

1215
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:10,520
retirement the end of this
month, 31st of January.

1216
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,840
What you're stopping again?
I'm stopping again and I'm I'm

1217
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,120
putting it down.
I went to LDI.

1218
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,000
I woke up at LDI this past.
People who are retiring don't go

1219
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,680
to LDI.
I'm just letting you know.

1220
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,760
Like that's I.
Went to LDI, it's a sign I went

1221
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:29,160
to LDI and I woke up the 1st
morning of the show I going what

1222
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,000
the am I doing here?
And I went you can't you going

1223
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,560
to look at these toys, these
great things you can't do

1224
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,320
anything you're not going to
sell any of these you're not

1225
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,280
going to use any of these I mean
these are your friends and so as

1226
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,000
I'm walking around the show they
were like I thought you retired

1227
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:47,200
and I said yeah, I did for about
a year and then I'm going to

1228
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,480
really retire So what was I
doing at LDI?

1229
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:54,760
As I told everybody, I'm looking
for my replacement, and so I had

1230
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,440
some meaningful conversations.
But you know, it's difficult to

1231
01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:03,720
find somebody who has the wealth
of knowledge, for lack of a

1232
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:05,680
better word.
It's true, I do.

1233
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:07,400
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.

1234
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,000
I mean, you can find people who
who know a lot about fixtures or

1235
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,600
know a lot about, you know,
design software or, but they

1236
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,680
don't know what, how to catch a
light when it falls out of the

1237
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,520
sky or, you know, they don't.
They haven't bumped their head

1238
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:24,640
enough times to to really
understand what happens when

1239
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,320
shit goes S, you know, and you
need to know those things.

1240
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,680
Like that's the real world
experience that you don't get

1241
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,080
from a book and you don't get
from, you know, whatever it is

1242
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,920
like.
So I turned 70 while at LDI,

1243
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,240
Yeah.
And I was like, you know, I, the

1244
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,240
clock's ticking and I, I really
would like to do some other

1245
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,400
things.
Like what?

1246
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,280
Reading on your on your front
porch.

1247
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,200
Yes.
I, I'm telling you, somebody's

1248
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,520
going to call you.
The right person is going to

1249
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:59,400
call you and say, Bill, look,
you can work from home.

1250
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,240
You can have 12 weeks of
vacation.

1251
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,520
I only want you to work 3 hour
days and I only want you to do

1252
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:09,840
this and you know, you can do it
whenever you want in your

1253
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,240
pajamas, blah, blah, blah.
And you're going to go, damn,

1254
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:14,280
that sounds.
Good.

1255
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,640
So so Tom Stanziano.
Bastard that he is.

1256
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:25,320
While at LDI I said I'm looking
for a replacement and he said

1257
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:30,560
OK, I'll think about it.
Hey, I got this thing that we're

1258
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,920
doing it verily, and I wonder if
you would be interested in this

1259
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:35,680
blah blah, blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah.

1260
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,680
That's hilarious.
That's hilarious.

1261
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,320
You know what?
You've done too good of a job.

1262
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:42,120
I mean, at the end of the day,
that's the thing.

1263
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,760
Like when you're, when you're
you, when you're me, when you're

1264
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,600
like, there's, there's 100
people that I can think of in

1265
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:52,000
the industry that are, you know,
ultimately employable.

1266
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,840
They'll never be broke or
without work or without

1267
01:12:54,840 --> 01:13:00,000
customers or whatever.
And that's not a bad thing, you

1268
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:04,880
know, And by the way, what we do
can be quite fun and rewarding

1269
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,240
as long as you're doing the
things that you love to do and

1270
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:10,760
you're able to get rid of some
of the things you don't love to

1271
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,040
do.
And so, you know, any role that

1272
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,840
you find yourself falling into,
if you do, make sure they hand

1273
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,480
you an assistant who will take
all of the stuff that you don't

1274
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:22,160
like to do.
Because I'm not going to do

1275
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,040
anything anymore.
I'm 70 years old.

1276
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:28,480
I'm not going to do anything I
don't want to do, and I wanna

1277
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:31,560
take as much vacation as I want.
That might be 4 weeks one year,

1278
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,240
it might be 22 weeks the next
year.

1279
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,080
I don't have any idea.
But I'll work when I work.

1280
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,520
And if you're OK with that,
great, let's do something.

1281
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,280
Well I'm gonna go on record cuz
I know this is being recorded as

1282
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:47,360
I'm retiring.
That's funny, he's even got the

1283
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,880
bell to make.
It so real I forgot this from

1284
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:54,560
the very beginning.
I got this I don't know when and

1285
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:57,400
I don't know how it was for some
birthday at some point.

1286
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:01,880
Old geezer, there you go.
A Mandel.

1287
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,280
Geezer Candle.
Mandel.

1288
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,440
I'm gonna light it.
There you go.

1289
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,520
There you go.
Look at those like ass.

1290
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,520
But I'm gonna light it anyway.
Well, all old geezers smell like

1291
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:14,040
ass, so.
Yeah, Well, that's probably why

1292
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,120
it smells like that.
Exactly.

1293
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,240
That's awesome.
An old geezer candle.

1294
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,200
I'm gonna have to find those.
I'll have to buy a couple

1295
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:21,400
hundred.
Yeah, You.

1296
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:23,400
This is This should be the
parting gift.

1297
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:25,760
Thank you very much for being on
my show.

1298
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,840
Here's the old geezer candle.
I'll send you the technical as

1299
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,120
to where.
It came from Perfect Perfect.

1300
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:33,440
I love it already.
And it's a Mandel.

1301
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,640
Yeah, it's a Mandel.
Candle, but it's a Mandel.

1302
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:41,880
Yeah, so I read here somewhere
that you were the senior warden

1303
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,120
for a church.
What is a senior warden for a

1304
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:46,800
church and what does that person
do?

1305
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,400
Well, I'll tell you as a senior
warden, no.

1306
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:52,440
Sounds like a geezer geezer kind
of role.

1307
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:53,440
It does.
It does.

1308
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,680
So I am a practicing
Episcopalian.

1309
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,480
I'm actually what's called a
cradle Episcopalian.

1310
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:03,760
I mean, I was born baptized and
I've been an Episcopalian my

1311
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,600
entire life.
And, and I appreciate the faith

1312
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:13,800
because they are one of the
major organized religious

1313
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:17,840
organizations That's redundant,
but that accepts everybody.

1314
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,080
I mean, everybody.
Women can be priests.

1315
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:25,320
You can be gay, black, Hispanic,
doesn't matter where you come

1316
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:27,760
from.
It's all done in the cradle of

1317
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,000
love and God's world.
Yeah.

1318
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:36,440
So several years ago we had a
minister and his name is James

1319
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:42,120
Snodgrass, and he was looking
for a senior warden.

1320
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:46,760
Senior warden is the layperson,
which is to say Joe Blow, a

1321
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:54,080
member of the congregation, not
a religious figure who does the

1322
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,640
the business of the church.
It would be kind of like the

1323
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:03,920
minister is the CEO and the the
senior warden is the CFO.

1324
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:07,120
OK, That would be the best
analogy I can give you.

1325
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,640
And so he came to me with his
big brown eyes and he said,

1326
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:16,840
Bill, would you consider being
senior Ward?

1327
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:20,680
Yeah.
And I was like, God, I'm not

1328
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,600
really religious.
I I know the Bible is.

1329
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,560
I have one or maybe two in the
house, but I'm not that guy.

1330
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:32,520
Yeah, I curse occasionally.
I'm in the lighting business.

1331
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,960
Bill, pray on this for me.
Yeah.

1332
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:42,520
And so I said yes and, and
actually all kidding aside, the

1333
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:48,080
the the church has a feeding
program and had a kitchen about

1334
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:54,760
that big and we raised almost a
half, $1,000,000.

1335
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,000
Jeez, real money.
Renovate the church.

1336
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,960
Renovate the kitchen.
Blow out the back of the

1337
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,160
kitchen.
Existing kitchen double its

1338
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:08,320
expanse and did some other
renovations throughout the

1339
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,360
parish hall which is where the
kitchen is and and the church

1340
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,080
itself.
The church is one of the oldest

1341
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,800
churches in have any grace which
is where I live.

1342
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:20,920
It was built in 18 O 9 and it
was sacked and it was sacked and

1343
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:25,000
burned by the British so.
That's an interesting story.

1344
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:31,000
Was the money raised from
individuals or or corporations

1345
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:32,920
or a combination of everything
or?

1346
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,760
A lot of it came from the
congregation.

1347
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:40,880
There was some funds that were
available publicly and there is

1348
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:48,160
a family, the Wetter family,
that were very supportive of the

1349
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,360
church.
Virginia Wetter was one of The

1350
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:56,160
Pioneers in radio.
OK, you look her up, she's got a

1351
01:17:56,160 --> 01:18:01,120
whole thing and has won many an
award for being a woman in the

1352
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,560
broadcast industry when women
were not in the.

1353
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:04,640
Broadcast.
Interesting.

1354
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,880
And so the family's been very
supportive of the church for all

1355
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,800
these years.
So they were major contribution

1356
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:16,720
contributors, Virginia being one
of them and her daughters.

1357
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:21,440
And so between them and the
congregation we raised pretty

1358
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:24,400
close to a half, $1,000,000.
That's amazing.

1359
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:26,560
That's, that's really small
congregation.

1360
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:32,360
Yeah.
So I was project manager of the

1361
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:36,080
the build, which was again
pretty extensive.

1362
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:37,640
Right up your alley, yeah.
Yep.

1363
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,320
Project manager for the
renovation of the church.

1364
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,240
Project manager for the
renovation of the belfry.

1365
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:48,080
Because we belfry.
I was just waiting for that tug

1366
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,440
on the rope and the bell to go.
Fine.

1367
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:53,240
Yeah, right.
Yep, the bells.

1368
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:54,600
Free I can.
Confirm.

1369
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:55,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

1370
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,200
But yeah, so I did that for six
years, actually.

1371
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:01,480
Wow.
And.

1372
01:19:01,480 --> 01:19:03,880
That's to be rewarding.
Yeah, it was.

1373
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:09,280
It was a good thing.
And then I, I actually couldn't

1374
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,360
continue.
I was I reached the limit of my

1375
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,640
term of office, if you will.
Term limits What A.

1376
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:20,160
Concept limits, yeah.
What a concept. 2-3 year

1377
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:24,440
consecutive years.
I had to take a breather.

1378
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:26,000
I.
Guess so.

1379
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,360
Is it an elected position or is
it just a position that you're

1380
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,960
handed?
It's a little bit of both.

1381
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,680
I mean, there isn't like a
million people lining up to want

1382
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:38,520
to be the senior award.
Right.

1383
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:40,680
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, you want to pay very well?

1384
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,640
Do you want?
Do you want to do it cuz I.

1385
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:45,440
Yeah.
Let's get built to do it.

1386
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:46,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

1387
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:52,240
And so, yeah, I mean, you are
still elected by the

1388
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:56,520
congregation to do this.
Yeah.

1389
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,240
You know, it wasn't like I had
to do any campaign speeches or

1390
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:03,160
anything like that.
So tell me I again, I'm a

1391
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:07,400
Canadian, so pardon me, but
Haver de Grace.

1392
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:09,880
Yeah.
Tell me about this town.

1393
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,640
It's obviously in Maryland, but
true enough, it's an interesting

1394
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,560
name.
I'm guessing there's some sort

1395
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:19,000
of a Spanish history or
something to it.

1396
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,200
Oh no.
No, it's Marquis de Lafayette.

1397
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,840
Oh yeah.
Do you have to do that every

1398
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,320
time you say it?
Absolutely.

1399
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,720
That's funny.
Either that or Italian.

1400
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:31,600
That's funny.
That's hilarious.

1401
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,000
Yes.
So Marquis de Lafayette during

1402
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,160
the Revolutionary War passed
through town.

1403
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:42,720
Him and George were tipping a
few across the river and he said

1404
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:45,360
this is a beautiful town.
It had originally been called

1405
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,440
Harmer's Town that doesn't have
a rank.

1406
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:49,320
To it.
Yeah, it sounds much better now.

1407
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,080
But Havity Grace is where the
Susquehanna River meets the

1408
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:56,400
Chesapeake Bay.
OK, literally, the Susquehanna

1409
01:20:56,440 --> 01:21:00,400
River empties right into the Bay
right in Havity Grace.

1410
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:07,240
So in that little chunk of the
world, Havity Grace was a fairly

1411
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:13,440
significant town for merchandise
going up into Pennsylvania and

1412
01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:16,320
had an entire lock system that
went up to Susquehanna River

1413
01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:21,680
taking goods, canned goods,
etcetera into Pennsylvania.

1414
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:27,840
It was also significant port up
from Baltimore to get goods in

1415
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:30,520
this area.
And because it was on the

1416
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:35,880
Chesapeake Bay, that's where
Admiral Coburn decided to drop

1417
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:41,200
anchor and bomb the hell out of
Happy Grace in the War of 1812.

1418
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:48,520
So in 1813, Happy Grace was
sacked and burn and still to

1419
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:52,520
this day becomes one of the few
cities in the country that was

1420
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,320
sacked and burned by a foreign
power.

1421
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,400
Wow, so there, that's
interesting.

1422
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:00,880
So how big is this city?
About 12,000.

1423
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:03,320
Oh, OK, so it's tiny.
Yeah, it's tiny.

1424
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,280
Nice.
It's a small, fairly close lit,

1425
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:14,680
close knit community.
You know that many people

1426
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:16,840
around.
You get to know people who get

1427
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:18,640
to know you who get to know
people.

1428
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,200
I mean, I'm always surprised
that who knows who sometimes.

1429
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,600
Yeah, as a matter of fact, we
did.

1430
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:27,520
AI built a solarium on the
backside of my house.

1431
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:33,080
And we had a Cinco de Mayo party
last May and invited a whole

1432
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:35,240
bunch of people because
everybody would see on Facebook

1433
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,080
because I posted some pictures.
So he didn't invite him.

1434
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:39,360
What are you doing?
What are you building?

1435
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:40,840
What are you building?
What it's gonna?

1436
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:44,240
Be okay, yeah.
So I just said come, come, look.

1437
01:22:44,480 --> 01:22:46,680
Yeah.
And what was really neat about

1438
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,240
it was I have an association
with a lot of people who don't

1439
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:52,080
have associations among
themselves.

1440
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:56,800
But it became one of those, oh,
you taught my son back in blah

1441
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:57,840
blah blah.
Funny.

1442
01:22:58,040 --> 01:22:59,640
Oh, you live in the such and
such house.

1443
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:02,560
Oh yeah.
And oh, I used to work for and

1444
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,120
and it just like all these
little connections were being

1445
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:07,200
made.
It was that's cool, really quite

1446
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,480
unique.
And that's that's classic.

1447
01:23:10,480 --> 01:23:12,880
Have any grace?
And you've been there a long

1448
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:17,080
time, right?
About 25 years, but Jonathan,

1449
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:20,200
Jonathan back to Jonathan.
When Jonathan said go work from

1450
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:26,600
home, then I could do that and
that's. 95 Nice where you chose

1451
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:28,280
to live?
Yeah, exactly.

1452
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,800
Well, I fell in love, blah blah
blah.

1453
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:32,520
Married the woman who that's
where she.

1454
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,560
Married the woman who?
Yeah, married the woman who owns

1455
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,640
the house.
You know, that's a good idea.

1456
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,760
Kept man, but you know.
I'd like to say that's cheaper

1457
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,720
than buying the house, but I
know differently.

1458
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,680
Over the long run, no.
Yeah, well, it's funny you were

1459
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:51,200
telling this, this story about
your party and running into all

1460
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:54,400
these people who are like, Oh
well, I know so and so and so I

1461
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,000
have a house in in a town
similar size in Canada called

1462
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,760
Canmore, which is if you fly
into Calgary, it's about an hour

1463
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,560
and a half outside of Calgary in
the Rocky Mountains.

1464
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,320
And it's right next to Banff,
which a lot of people have heard

1465
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:10,520
of.
And so this house I have in

1466
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:12,600
Canmore, I have a friend there
named Kyle.

1467
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:15,920
And every time he got in a
problem with his wife and

1468
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,280
eventually got divorced with his
wife, he would call me and say,

1469
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,880
you know, can I stay in the
doghouse because I'm down here

1470
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,520
in South Florida, My house is
empty up in Canada.

1471
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:26,800
And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, you
can stay there.

1472
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:30,640
So every time I was there and
like, I'd go to a bar with

1473
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,600
people or to a party or to
someone's house for a dinner

1474
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,040
party or something, they'd
always come up and go here.

1475
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:40,440
Marcel, I've been in your house
because this Kyle guy was always

1476
01:24:40,440 --> 01:24:42,800
having parties in my house when
I wasn't there, right?

1477
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:45,640
So yeah, that's what your story
reminded me.

1478
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:46,360
Very.
Strange.

1479
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:53,320
Well, and so that segues into
the Opera House in town.

1480
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:59,800
Yeah, we had an Opera House
built in 1890 I think it was.

1481
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:07,920
It was a three story structure.
The there's some controversy as

1482
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:13,640
to what was where, but it
definitely was on the second

1483
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:18,560
floor of the building and it had
an entire fly system in it and

1484
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:24,840
it's sat like 500 people.
And the first floor was used as

1485
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,040
it's been a gym, it's been City
Council chambers, etcetera,

1486
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:35,280
etcetera.
In the 1900's the third floor

1487
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:39,520
burnt.
I, knowing what a theater should

1488
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:44,560
look like, notice that the
section that would have been

1489
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,920
like the fly tower on the
backside of the building is no

1490
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:52,600
longer there.
So I assume that the fire was in

1491
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:57,200
the fly tower and that was
ultimately removed from the

1492
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:02,040
building.
But eight years ago, actually

1493
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,080
longer than that, the city said,
what are we going to do with

1494
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,040
this building called the Opera
House?

1495
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:11,160
It had been currently being run
pretty much by a local community

1496
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:14,560
theater.
And the city had storage in it

1497
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,800
and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And so they put together a

1498
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,360
little task force.
And I was like, yeah, I know a

1499
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,440
little bit about theater.
And they said, OK, you're on the

1500
01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:26,400
task force.
And along with several other

1501
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:32,160
people in the city decided to
renovate it and the city put

1502
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,240
forth a bond.
The citizens that have any grace

1503
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:39,840
said yes we want the Opera House
and spent about $3,000,000

1504
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:43,600
renovating this building.
So now the theaters on the 2nd

1505
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:53,800
floor, wow, it now seats 201
seats on a rate actually stepped

1506
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:59,320
up seating arrangement.
The theater was literally gutted

1507
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:03,280
to nothing.
It is punched through into the

1508
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,920
next door building which was the
Firehouse.

1509
01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:11,720
So now there's a ballroom,
conference room, whatever you

1510
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:15,000
want to a multi purpose room
that you can get to from the

1511
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:17,920
Opera House into the Firehouse.
And the theater has been running

1512
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:20,360
ever since.
And that's why I started the

1513
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,000
Arts Collective.
See how that was segwayed right

1514
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:24,320
into.
Yeah, I like it.

1515
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,640
So knowing that the city really
didn't know what they were going

1516
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:32,800
to do with the space and really
think, oh, well, we'll have a

1517
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,200
professional company come in and
manage it.

1518
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,520
And I would like.
Not for 201 seats, they're not.

1519
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:41,280
Yeah.
And started the Arts Collective

1520
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:44,680
as a way in which to program the
Opera House.

1521
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:47,320
Oh, interesting.
So how many?

1522
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:50,320
People are involved in that in
the collective Oh.

1523
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:56,280
At the time there was a board of
10 and a full time person of

1524
01:27:56,440 --> 01:28:02,720
one, which ended up being 1 1/2
and then everybody was hired in,

1525
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:04,920
the talent was hired in,
etcetera.

1526
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,400
Did anyone other than you know
what they were doing?

1527
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,160
So when?
I have a background, I should

1528
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,440
say have a background in theatre
or opera or music or.

1529
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:20,600
So when I started it, I went
around and I cherry picked

1530
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,320
people from the community who
were a representative of the

1531
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,600
various disciplines within the
performing arts.

1532
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:29,160
Oh, I had an opera singer, I had
a film guy.

1533
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:33,520
I had a theatre goof.
I had a city of 12,000 people.

1534
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,400
There's at least 10.
Yeah.

1535
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,960
Cool.
And, and so they were the people

1536
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:44,480
who brought it to life by
contacting so and so about doing

1537
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:49,240
a performance of dance.
Or I had a guy who was from New

1538
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:53,760
York who brought his knowledge
of film and ran a Film Festival

1539
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:55,560
and he was extremely
knowledgeable.

1540
01:28:55,560 --> 01:29:02,040
And my wife, who was a thespian
and new theater people booked

1541
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:04,360
children's shows and so forth
and so on.

1542
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:10,000
And we had a pretty good run.
The thing was that it got piled

1543
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,520
onto by the city.
They were like, well, would you

1544
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:16,200
mind managing the Opera House
too?

1545
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:19,320
Because there were already
existing several theater

1546
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,840
companies, dance companies, the
high school, whatever.

1547
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:26,920
It was the only performing arts
space in Happy Grace Notice.

1548
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:33,520
I said was not but and they
said, well, how about if we give

1549
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,600
you a bag of money?
And I was like a bag of money.

1550
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:39,920
And with that bag of money, I
thought I could fire, I could

1551
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,640
hire an executive director and I
did.

1552
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:47,840
And she came on board and was
great at creating an audience

1553
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:52,160
experience for the Opera House
for Havity Grace.

1554
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:56,160
That makes sense.
And so we were doing that for, I

1555
01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:59,920
don't know, 6-7 years.
And then eventually what

1556
01:29:59,920 --> 01:30:05,320
happened was the city got hold
of another space, which is

1557
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:10,280
called the Star Center, which is
a 900 seat theater just down the

1558
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:15,200
road a bit from where I live.
And because the Opera House was

1559
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:19,680
also a city property, they hired
staff to do the Star Center.

1560
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:22,760
And that staff is also
responsible for the Opera House.

1561
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:26,880
So the arts collective was no
longer necessary to run the

1562
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:30,680
Opera House.
We left and we started a gallery

1563
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,320
in town and that's where it is
today.

1564
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:35,280
And it's also a small
performance venue.

1565
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:40,920
And since those venues though
are still operational, working

1566
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:43,080
out well.
Yeah, and there's another one

1567
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,680
though we have another.
We have a 500 seat theater.

1568
01:30:46,160 --> 01:30:48,440
A very artsy little town.
It is.

1569
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,240
Well, it's where I call.
It's where all the cool kids

1570
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:53,120
hang out because it is very
artsy.

1571
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:57,680
Yeah, we have 3.
Performance venues, they do any

1572
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:00,680
number of things.
A lot of cover bands, which I'm

1573
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:03,880
not thrilled with, but they, you
know, are looking at other

1574
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:07,560
things.
Yeah, there's some travelling

1575
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,920
shows and various types coming
in now also, like a Cirque du

1576
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:15,480
Soleil esque Cayman Vampire
Circus or something like that.

1577
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:19,840
Well, a 900 seat venue, a lot of
different things could work, you

1578
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:22,240
know it.
Could it could and and I look

1579
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:24,200
forward to them making that
happen.

1580
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:27,720
Yeah, even the 200 seat venue
like you would think some of the

1581
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:30,920
smaller comedy acts and things
like that could do real well.

1582
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:34,080
And the problem.
Is right now, as I said, there's

1583
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:38,120
several community theatre
organizations in this area and

1584
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:42,600
they consume a lot of the
schedule between the two, one

1585
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:48,000
resident and one sort of kissing
cousin, if you will, to the

1586
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,880
other theatre company.
And then there's a dance company

1587
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:55,000
in the local town.
There's not a lot of, well, not,

1588
01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:57,840
I mean a lot.
There are no publicly owned

1589
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:00,600
performing arts spaces in this
county.

1590
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:04,080
And so it was like bees to
honey.

1591
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:06,600
There was like, oh, there's a
theatre over there, I can rent

1592
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:08,760
that.
And so here they came.

1593
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:10,360
That's great.
That's fantastic.

1594
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:12,040
Yeah, that's really, really
cool.

1595
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:13,240
I like.
It and now there's another one.

1596
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:17,280
There's the the 500, which is
currently 3, which soon to be 5

1597
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:20,000
is the State Theatre and that's
privately owned.

1598
01:32:20,440 --> 01:32:23,320
And they do a whole cavalcade of
activities.

1599
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:27,200
Again, a lot of cover bands that
pay the bills, but they do

1600
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,320
wrestling.
They do.

1601
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:34,440
I know, it's wild.
They do other kind of shows,

1602
01:32:34,440 --> 01:32:37,920
they drag brunches, all kinds of
wacky stuff.

1603
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,120
So fine.
We also have two museums in

1604
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:45,200
town, so it's not just that
there's lots of stuff to do. 3

1605
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:46,200
museum.
It's real.

1606
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:48,080
The cool kids hang out.
I like it.

1607
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:51,000
I like it buy.
Another pad here that you can,

1608
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:52,680
yeah.
Well, there's a really good

1609
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:56,240
chance that that's never going
to happen, but I would like to

1610
01:32:56,240 --> 01:33:00,200
stop in if I'm ever in the area,
I'd like to stop in to Haver de

1611
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:02,240
Gray sounds like a cool town for
sure on.

1612
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:05,280
Your way north-south.
No, you know, they come this

1613
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:06,800
way.
N yeah.

1614
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:12,040
So the older I get, the more I
really love small towns.

1615
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:16,440
You know, I just I don't I don't
jive on living in the big cities

1616
01:33:16,440 --> 01:33:20,200
anymore as much as I used to.
And I think I was always kind of

1617
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,360
a small town guy that just
happened to live in bigger

1618
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:28,880
cities, but I really like the
small community vibe and being

1619
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:32,280
able to walk from one end to
Main Street to the other end in

1620
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:38,120
1/2 hour or something or less.
And yeah, I love that stuff.

1621
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:41,400
I'd like the Opera House is a
whopping 10 minute walk.

1622
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:46,640
There are restaurants, at least
half a dozen of them within a 10

1623
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:47,880
minute walk.
That's awesome.

1624
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:51,600
So yeah, perfect.
I get where you're coming from

1625
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:54,680
and I really appreciate it.
I love going to New York City

1626
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:57,440
and seeing a big time show.
Yeah.

1627
01:33:57,440 --> 01:33:59,280
And I love coming home.
So yeah.

1628
01:33:59,520 --> 01:33:59,920
Yeah.
Good.

1629
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,640
For you and your wife, I think
you said she's Greek, but is she

1630
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:06,800
from that area?
She's not from Greece.

1631
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:08,760
Her.
Parents from the Harvard of

1632
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:09,320
Grace.
Area.

1633
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:10,160
Oh, yes.
Yeah.

1634
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:12,600
Well, she's the woman I married
who had the house, by the way.

1635
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:16,600
Right.
She's actually a Baltimorean and

1636
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:20,520
moved here with her first
husband, who was Greek.

1637
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:22,080
Yeah.
Kicked him out.

1638
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,040
No, just kidding.
Yeah, just kidding, Chris.

1639
01:34:25,440 --> 01:34:31,640
And yeah, So she got divorced,
we got connected in theater,

1640
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:34,800
blah blah, blah.
Wow. 30 years later.

1641
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:37,160
Whatever, that's cool.
Well, congratulations, you

1642
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:38,560
survived.
Yeah.

1643
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:41,720
Yeah.
Greek people are an interesting

1644
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,800
group of people.
Yeah, I don't know that many, to

1645
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:46,320
be perfectly honest.
I have two.

1646
01:34:46,480 --> 01:34:49,680
Well, I have one employee who
lives in Greece and one employee

1647
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:53,760
who is Greek and lives on the
mainland of Greece.

1648
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,520
But, you know, I don't know a
lot of Greek people, to be

1649
01:34:57,520 --> 01:34:59,120
perfectly honest.
I love the food.

1650
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:01,480
You don't think you do?
Yeah, that's true.

1651
01:35:01,480 --> 01:35:03,000
Be careful.
Just be careful.

1652
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:04,720
Yeah.
If you're looking for somebody

1653
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:06,760
to go have a party with, find a
great person.

1654
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:07,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

1655
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:13,440
I had my first wife had seven
kids in her family.

1656
01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:15,480
I guess so.
A lot of brothers.

1657
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:18,960
Yeah.
My wife has 21.

1658
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,840
Is your classic Playboy never
gonna grow up.

1659
01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:25,960
Great guy.
I don't know how many marriages

1660
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,760
he's been through, but if you
want to have a party, he's the

1661
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:30,640
guy you want to invite.
Yeah, yeah.

1662
01:35:31,480 --> 01:35:33,720
And I know I've been to enough
Greek restaurants to know that

1663
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:37,120
they like to have a good time.
OPA Yeah, they definitely love

1664
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:39,680
to have a good time.
And I like it.

1665
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:43,560
I like, you know, I mean, as you
know, Sarah, our producer is

1666
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:48,840
always putting up videos and
stuff of her, her, you know,

1667
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:53,600
running around the island and
it's in the summer.

1668
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:58,080
It's just like constantly get
togethers, like everyone's

1669
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:00,680
always together.
It's such a community and it's

1670
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:02,400
so social.
I love it.

1671
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:05,400
I mean, it's so good for your,
for your health and longevity

1672
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:07,880
too.
Not all the drinking of course,

1673
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:11,360
but no everything, the rest of
it is so good for you.

1674
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:15,880
You know, like I, I've studied
the, the blue zones.

1675
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:17,840
I don't know if you've ever
looked at any of that stuff.

1676
01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:22,360
Oh yeah, I know of it.
Yeah, relocating, but yeah.

1677
01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:26,080
You know, the, the whole Blue
Zone concept really is, is down

1678
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:31,840
to those social connections and
having a very successful and

1679
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:35,680
very busy social life, having a
lot of talking conversations

1680
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:39,120
with people in person.
But it's also like the food,

1681
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:42,120
like one guy will have goats,
one person will have a vineyard,

1682
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:44,760
one person will have, you know,
and they just kind of get

1683
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,920
together and OK, you got the
tomatoes, you got the olive oil,

1684
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:52,800
you've got the the lamb, you
know, and that's how they eat.

1685
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:56,480
And so it's all so healthy.
Like it's not this factory crap

1686
01:36:56,480 --> 01:36:58,240
food that we eat and stuff.
Right.

1687
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:00,600
Exactly.
Well, and that, that sense of

1688
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:04,400
community that you talk about
from a small town that seems to

1689
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:07,200
be innate within those people
within.

1690
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:11,400
Yeah, people, I love them.
The, the sense of familia is

1691
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,680
just very strong.
And so we have, you know, we

1692
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:19,000
have our neighbors, one's from
Honduras and the others from

1693
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:21,160
Mexico.
And they're, they're very

1694
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,960
gracious people.
She raises chickens, so we get

1695
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:26,120
chicken legs.
Yeah.

1696
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:28,960
Stuff like that.
And that's what I really

1697
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,320
appreciate about living in this
community.

1698
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,160
I know a lot of people.
And there's a lot of connections

1699
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:34,920
here to be made.
Yeah.

1700
01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:39,640
Yeah, my, my brother lives in
Prince Edward Island in Canada,

1701
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:41,760
in a very small town in Prince
Edward Island.

1702
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:45,120
And it's like that there.
Like one guy grows potatoes on

1703
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:48,280
his land, another person grows
something else on their land.

1704
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:51,880
One guy's the lobster fisherman
who's the very popular friend

1705
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:54,720
that everybody likes.
And, you know, it's just

1706
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:58,360
constantly swapping food.
Like everybody's, you know, got

1707
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:01,000
a role to play.
And they all just kind of it

1708
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:05,360
moves around and everyone eats,
you know, it's, it's a great way

1709
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:06,880
to be.
I love that community stuff.

1710
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:10,000
And in cities, it's just like,
it just feels like you're just

1711
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:13,400
constantly trying to survive as
opposed to, you know.

1712
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:16,080
I live in New York City and my
back hair is immediately go up.

1713
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:19,120
You know, it's just like, OK,
I'm, I'm switched on.

1714
01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:20,120
I'm ready.
I'm action.

1715
01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:23,280
Yeah, me too.
Which I I know there are a lot

1716
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:25,160
of people who live that with
John Gabby.

1717
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:28,080
Yeah, Hey, hey.
Hey, what's going on?

1718
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:30,760
Hey Mark, how you doing up?
Here how you doing?

1719
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:33,640
Yeah, love that man.
Yeah, Yeah.

1720
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:37,000
Well, Bill, it's been great.
I appreciate you taking the time

1721
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:39,040
to do this.
It's, you know, again, you're

1722
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:41,040
one of those guys that I've
always known your name.

1723
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:44,320
I'm sure we've met at some point
in Barbizon because probably

1724
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:47,120
Resnick could walk me around and
go, this is this person, this is

1725
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:50,040
this person, right?
But I didn't often do business

1726
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:53,840
with people myself at Barbizon
outside of Resnick.

1727
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:57,360
You know, it was usually me and
Jonathan dreaming up something

1728
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:00,320
and then handing it to everyone
else to try and clean up our

1729
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,840
mess.
And, but I appreciate you taking

1730
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:09,760
the time to do it and you know,
if you really do retire, I, I, I

1731
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:12,480
wish you well in your
retirement, But otherwise I'll

1732
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:15,600
send you some leads for some
cool gigs that are kind of part

1733
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:18,040
time and have lots of vacation
time and allow you to work.

1734
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:18,880
I'm.
Gonna retire.

1735
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:20,120
I'm gonna retire.
I'm gonna retire.

1736
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:20,920
I'm gonna.
Retire.

1737
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:24,320
I'm gonna retire.
Well, we did record it, so it's

1738
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:26,120
official.
That's right, exactly.

1739
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:28,320
Hi, Bill.
Thank you.

1740
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:30,040
You bet.
Have a good one.

1741
01:39:30,160 --> 01:40:00,760
Yeah, you too.
Music.