#284 - Get Friggin Festive

0:01 Hello, it's me Sarah and I've got a huge confession to make. So we have just had a lovely Christmas get frigging Christmas Eve with Geezers of Gear podcast and I forgot to record half of it. So I hope you enjoy the last hour of it. We had some really wonderful people that came on to join us to raise a glass. There was some good chats. I was very silly. We weren't recording on Riverside like I am now, We was recording in Rome and I looked down making sure everything's being recorded and it's got on my little icons at the bottom stop record. And I was like, Oh, well, I didn't press anything, but it must automatically be recorded.

0:51 So I was happy. You know, we were chatting, you know, Marcel didn't say anything. And not that, you know, it wasn't up to him. It was up to me to press the record button. And I'm thinking what? We must be doing it. And then also he got into 50 minutes and I went, my little brain went, no, this there is another button. So I looked down at other icons and I'm looking, it's the first time we've recorded on the Roam and I looked and there it was hit record for video. So guys, everyone that turned up at the beginning, people were coming and going. I do apologize, really, I, I, I feel very, very, very silly, but I do apologize for not recording it all.

1:33 But the last hour that we have, I hope that everybody enjoys it. Thank you again for everybody who showed up. Thank you for the messages for people that couldn't come and I wish everybody a very, very happy holidays festive season. And here is to a fantastic 2025. Cheers. Thank you for joining me for a special episode #284 of Geezers of Gear. Get friggin festive. That's what we're going to do today. This episode is brought to you by Main Light, a national dry hire rental providers specializing in supplying the latest lighting and stage equipment technology.

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5:39 What? Was the deal with that? That was a Clay Paki thing that I think happened like right as I had joined Group One or something like that. It was obviously a huge deal. They. Had them all. Yeah, yeah. No, I remember. Well, before you jumped on, we were just talking about the, the gold BI that they just launched like last week or whatever to celebrate how many BIS they built or whatever. And I remembered that job with the, I think it was 50 or 100 gold golden scans for his, the disco in his house or whatever. The gold golden scan three I think was the one that had just come out then. Yeah. OK.

6:20 So how many of us have had that golden scan 3IN rigs and been like what the hell did I put this in here for? Yeah, it. Had a hell of a triangle gobo. Oh yeah. We used to have a pool on the Dylan tour. At the end of the night, the big freaking ballyhoo of how many mirrors will go flying across the stage. Because that. Double sided tape never really held them. Yeah, it's funny. At LDI, you know, Andrew Gumpert does the the lighting museum thing around the the bar area and he had, I think it was a super scanned zoom from Clay Packie. And I, upon closer inspection, saw that the mirror was actually just a shiny piece of cardboard that he cut out to slap on there because you can't find the mirrors anymore. That's that's that's very Andrew improvising. Yeah, but it'll make it shiny enough. It's ready for rent, right?

7:16 Got that? Permanent confusion in it. I think you were at a demo that I had to go do for Disney where they were buying lights for something, I can't remember what. And there was a golden Scan 3 or whatever it was. And I had like a, a robo scan 12/20 and the designer would go, I think it was like, I don't remember who it was, but the designer would go, OK, now draw me a diagonal line from up here to down here. And I want it to go in nine seconds and I want it in blue or whatever, right? And so the golden scan would go like 1234, like absolutely smooth and beautiful down here and the nicest blue you've ever seen in your life.

8:01 And the robo. Scan would go Katharine Hepburn's head helicopter. It was. It was the matrix. It was it would be fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. It'd go this way on the way there, and then this way on the way. Back. Like it'd go above on the way there and below on the way back and. I remember the. Designer just looking at me going no I just want a straight line. Straight lines are boring. Who wants to remember anybody can do a straight line? Because the only thing I remember is US drinking beers on Main Street, USA at 3:00 in the morning going, my God, nobody gets to do this.

8:43 It was like the most, you know, forgotten, forbidden thing at a Disney. Pride. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And somebody had cracked out a 12 pack like let's go. Healing. Were you at? Were you at Obi's when we did that Yes thing with I think again, it was Roboscan Twelve 20s. With Jonathan Smeaton. Well, I don't think it was Smeaton, No. What I did, I did, yes. What it was, Yeah. No, it was. I was with Steven. I'm thinking even Steven Bickford early on where we did, yes. I just remember because Peter Moore was Peter Moore was programming for Smeaton, and I just remember John Anderson, the singer going stop. Stop, stop, stop, stop.

9:31 Because Peter was going crazy with these round circle gobos and I just remember John Anderson throwing a complete fit saying. Circles are evil. Circles are evil. No circles. I don't want any circles. Circles are evil. No, no cones, right? Yeah, no cone, no cone gobos. We knew how to. Program in cones, so. Right. Well, there you go. Oh, we didn't. No. Once again, another amazing. Yeah, another amazing designer. Steven Bickford. I don't know how many of you folks have ever had a chance to work with him. I'm sure. Fedo, you, you know, Steven, But Jesus. I did a couple Michael Jackson commercials, the cars with him and a few other tours.

10:15 And Dylan. Yeah. Yeah, He designed a Neil Young tour they gave me to to LD so, yeah. And I did a cars, you know, back at Obie's to the car. He designed the cars and his thing was wearing his T-shirts inside out at the front house while he was running the board. I'm not sure why that was his good luck thing then. That was on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. No, he didn't do that. We did. That was. I did the cars with him in 87 and he took the entire rig and painted it orange. I don't know if you remember that one at all.

10:55 That was the last car score. Fortunately, I missed that one. Yeah. And we did that, the cars. The cars thing that's on like Netflix or something, whatever, it's on one of the somebody. 'S playing this came in documentary right now, has anyone seen it? No. What's What's it on? There's a Cars documentary on one of the streaming things I don't. It's on Rick. Yeah, it's basically I think it's. Yeah, I think it's on Rick O Kasich, right. No, but which? Which network is it on? Oh, I'm not sure I. Don't know, I don't watch Netflix movies. Yeah, on movies, Michael, you'll remember this one. How many of the Neil Diamond fixtures did you you guys have left at the end of the the the the company, all the purple stuff?

11:40 Jesus, Oh, my goodness. I don't know. Gee, Feta. Well, you were you were gone at that point, right? Yeah. That was Maryland. That was a Maryland Lowey design, correct? Yeah. Jesus, I'm not sure. Yeah, I remember seeing fixtures and trust and things like spell that for and they were like, don't touch that. That's all Neil's stuff. Yeah. You're you're you're almost going to make me tear up because I think of Patrick Stansfield back then. God bless him. And obviously a lot of our fallen men. Patrick was just an amazing character. And. And what an ambassador to our industry, huh? Yes, Sir. Speaking of which, and I'm not sure because I haven't seen anything on social media yet, did everybody remember Sarge from LSD Nashville? Yeah.

12:30 Yep. Sarge passed yesterday. Yeah, I saw that. I didn't see anything about that on on the media, but I got a call from Steve Lorenz about it. So and way too freaking young. Sorry, never even got to geezer state. Yeah, so, so unfortunate thing. I I saw it on the line too. It's like, man, we got too many of us falling these days. We're getting to that age. Yes, we are. Well, you know, I, I tell everybody every day I'm above dirt. I'm a happy camper these days, right? We haven't like we're helping shorten our lives in in any way, you know? You know, back in the day, yeah, back in the day, I used to basically equate our life to that of the average fireman. The roadie was like your average, you know, age was 40, right?

13:21 Because we've actually had a lot of brothers back in the early days, back in the 80s, we had a lot of them fall to, you know, either cocaine habits or different things and overdoses. And today, you know, we're just finding it to age and to health issues and so on. So we're all, we're all very, very fortunate to be above ground and to be talking about our, our, our, what I'd like to say our easy life compared to some of the other people. When I say that, I don't say that the fact that it is easy. I know how freaking hard all of us work. First in, last out, right? But but don't you think one of these health scientists one of these days is going to figure out like why, you know, Keith Richards and and Nikki Sixx and John Wiseman and, you know, like some of these people just. They've pickled themselves and I'm. Yeah, well, I don't, I don't know how many of you guys are, but I'm celebrating my fifth year sobriety because of liver conditions and.

14:22 And that's. And that's turned into pancreatitis and so on. So I'm struggling with it every day. And at the end of the day, five years ago, I was 60 lbs heavier than I am today. And I'm lucky to be above ground. And I took it for, you know, face value of all the debauchery that I did enjoy back in the days. And now it's haunting me. But, you know, again, I'm still extremely lucky to be in this business with with all of us and enjoying our lives. You know what we do? Yeah. That. That's a good word. Debauchery. It was right. Yeah. We can define our entire careers with that half of that.

15:03 So and go through the lottery. How you feeling, Cosmo? Great. Good. Good to see you and try to get down there and see ya. We're down in February, so I'll be in your neck of the woods. When do you start ACDC? In March. Oh, OK. So, yeah, we'll definitely get together, get some dinner. Yeah, I I saw you're coming. So. And you said so that would be great. So you on the show? Yeah. Any shows are you doing with ACDC Cosmo? We have 13 U.S. States and then we go to Europe and I have not seen the entire schedule yet, but I figure 18, maybe 20 so.

15:47 Europe in the summer. Yeah, we did. We did 24 last summer. We didn't do anything in Scandinavia. We did. We did. There's a lot of, and even in the States, we're doing 13 cities and we're not doing a show in New York, San Francisco, Denver, I mean, lots of places, Seattle. So I'm hoping we come back in 2026. Very cool. Very cool since the racing season going there, Marcel, Season's over, right? He didn't race this year. He he's coaching and doing all kinds of training stuff.

16:27 And yeah, I mean, it's he, he lost his funding this year, let's say. So he's he's working like a working stiff. It's funny because I read an article today that said now karting is a multi millionaire's sport. Karting is no longer a, a grassroots racing thing, Karting. And so half the kids that he's coaching are like one of the kids, I think actually one of the kids he coaches is in this article. It's a Washington Post article that came out yesterday or today or something. And one of the kids he coaches is the kid in the article. His dad owns a bunch of dating sites.

17:09 I forget what they're called. I've never been on dating sites, so I don't know. But he, you know, he's a gazillionaire and they're paying millions of dollars for karting. Go karts. Maybe it's an opportunity for him to get a new sponsorship. Yeah, that's what he's always thinking. You know, he's like, if I hang out with billionaires, sooner or later it's going to rub. Off. Right, Yeah, yeah, it'll rub off at some point, but yeah, I don't know. It's it's just the sport has become a weird sport, but. And it's was never for the poor, so. No, it, it never has been a poor person sport, but it's never been like it is today where it's a billionaire sport.

17:51 You know, it's like our next step in Europe was supposed to be Formula 3. Formula Three now is about €2 million and like just five years ago it was €500,000, which is still a lot of money, but €2 million is is unachievable. It's. Like. Well, Gordie and the companies, a couple of companies in the UK sponsored a guy in the British Touring Car Championship, yeah, which is sort of saloon cars, right. And it was about two hundred 300,000 yeah, back used to get which would run the whole season, maybe a bit more. That way. Yeah, that's the.

18:31 Point He ended up becoming 800,000 to stay competitive. Yeah, GT cars. GT cars in comparison to what my kid races open wheel is still reasonable. You know when, when you, when you compare them. But you know, like everyone's talking about this kid Liam, Liam Lawson, who's just gone into F1 and how he's grassroots made it up through all the series and blah, blah, blah. Well, his grandfather, we happened to know him because we raced against him in Formula Ford in Europe a few years ago.

19:11 And his grandfather gave him €150 million to get through Formula 432 and 1:00 to get into Formula One. So €150 million. Even all the formula, even even the talented Formula One drivers all have had some kind of Hamilton had Mercedes backing, you know, and Perez has got all the Mexico money. Max had Dad's money and it's fun. Do you know what I mean? They've all had some kind of serious support. No, it's insane. Yeah, but it's worse. Now it's worse. Now like we have a we. Have a friend who's in. We have a friend who's in IndyCar right now who his name is Kiffin Simpson.

19:52 His dad paid $40 million to get him into IndyCar. Man, back when I was. 18 It was not even close to being that expensive when I raced. Not even. No, it's never been like this, you know, And by the time you got to IndyCar, you were being paid. You weren't paying to get into IndyCar. You weren't paying to get into Formula One. But that's all changed now. I mean, you know you're not. Bitter he's just trying to make a living off of it like there's in Miami they're opening tracks right now like club tracks for these mega rich people who are racing their Lamborghinis and stuff and like the Formula One temporary track that goes around the football stadium in Miami is now becoming a permanent track and you can buy memberships there for $1,000,000.

20:38 So all these guys with their GT3 Rs and their Lamborghini and their whatever are buying memberships there. And so he's talking to the people who run that track to go in as a coach slash Co driver when there's races and stuff because these guys, they'll run these Pro Am races. So he's the pro there, the amateur. And so there's a lot of money to be made in doing that. And like somebody else said, you know, you're rubbing shoulders with billionaires. Why not? So he's good with it. He understands his place in life. You know, dad's in the lighting business. I can't afford to be a race car driver. Or a race car supporter.

21:19 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, But you know, it's funny because my, my girlfriend's nephew, she's British and her nephew is a very hot prospect in the UK right now. And he's 15 years old and he recently was signed by Arsenal. And not only do they pay for all his schooling, all his training, all his coaching, all his everything, but they're paying him and his family there. He's got a Nike sponsorship. He's got like he's set for life. And he's 15 years old and they've never spent real money like his dad is, has got a, a soccer Academy or football Academy.

22:01 And so he's trained him since he was like 1 year old or whatever, right? But it's different. You know, they've got this support thing where they, they raise these kids up through the very most junior leagues all the way up into the pros. And you don't have to have, you know, millions of dollars to, to be a pro. Yeah, but isn't soccer in the UK and Europe comparable to what we do with football here? I mean, by the time kids are in high school, they've already got their college path now with NIL things or whatever that NFT or whatever that name, NIL name, image, likeness. I mean, you know, good Lord, by the time a kid's a senior in high school, if he's good and outstanding, he's got the next eight years of his life.

22:50 You've already got pro teams recruiting him by the time he gets to be a freshman or a sophomore in college. Very similar to I think what the what the soccer system is where the. There's some. Support you're. Talking. About. Well, yeah. And when you're talking about with the racing that's elite, that's like kind of saying I want to be, you know, a horse race person. I mean, you got to have a budget to start with in that field. It's not something that is readily available for you in a school program, so. In the soccer world, you're they're picking them up younger though, they're picking up 789. And so around our support and quite a support of my local team, but we aren't at the top.

23:31 But they, they come and scout our seven or eight-year olds at the big clubs like the Arsenal, Chelsea's, whatever. And we'll come and pay for $10,000 to one of our kids to put them into their Academy. But they go through it. I'd be willing to. Bet it's very similar here with football. I'd live down the street from Shamanad Madonna, which is a school that has ranked as a state champion and had huge stars come out. And they already are talking about the freshman players that are going into this school as being stars. And they're not even. They're just in their first year of high school. Yeah. So that's right, that's. 15 years old. 16 years old. But but they could. But but we've.

24:13 Also got, I mean, soccer is now popular in the States, but but football was the major support and you had all of the, the little leagues and the young kids and the peewees and, you know, same thing with baseball, just a different, just a different society. I, I was just trying to make the difference between the, the correlation between soccer and or race car driving. I'm I'm not sure that's the same as race car driving and say, being a polo person, if that's your sport, you need horses and all that crap. I. Don't think any of us can afford polo. Thank you very much. I don't think many of us can afford horse race car racing either at the what the prices you guys were quoting.

24:57 That's a very expensive sport. It's funny because here I live in Wellington, which is like the, they call it the cold weather equestrian capital of the world. So you've got like Jeremy Jacobs, who owns the Boston Bruins, lives here. Bill Gates has a house here, Bruce Springsteen has a house here. Like all these guys who have these, these kids who do dressage or show jumping or whatever it is. So anyways, I was sitting at A at a restaurant, having a drink at the bar one day and sitting talking to this guy next to me. And you know, what do you do? What do you do? You got any kids? Yeah. What do you do? Your kids play football? No, no, my kids a racing driver. Oh.

25:39 So I you know, I start crying about how expensive it is to be a racing driver. And he goes, Marcel, have you ever tried to field a polo team? And I said no. And he said. He said. I spent $35 million last year and I said, OK, you win. Sorry, you win. Different. Level there, Sir. Wow. Well and Wellington not for nothing is a little hoity toity Chris horse town as well. It's it's very it's not the well, you know, being a native Floridian, I remember when Ocala was a little 2 bit western town. That was the horse. Yeah, it's different now Florida, and now it's like the Southern Kentucky. Big town, small town.

26:24 That's 35 mils. A lot to pay for what's going to end up as glue. Everybody I got. To. Go to another meeting. Good seeing everyone have a great holiday. Cheers. Merry Christmas, all. Yes, Gordon, there's I'm going to, I'm going to bounce out until you guys take care of yourself. It's good. Good checking in with everybody, Marcel. All right. Thanks for putting this together. It's great. Nice meeting you, Michael.

27:10 You guys have happy holidays. All right. All right. Thank you, mate. Bye. Bye. Seriously, how many? How many Mac ones did you sell at at LTI? You put, you said, you said on a podcast. Warranty. They're still under warranty. You only launched them last year, Goldie. Not even a year. Old Oh, I meant. V ones, yeah. V ones, V ones. V ones still under warranty. Oh, by the way, did anyone see Cosmo? You probably saw the Vera light, the El 5. 5141 or 1541, That's a. Dumbass name, but anyways it was a very novel. Was it a fixture or was it a console? No, it's a fixture.

27:58 I think you're right. What what you said in your sum up, they must sell on it from a competitor point of view. Is it the finish? Is it where we're all going to end up? No, but it's the journey to get in there and I think. Yeah, it's the journey. Not the destination. Yeah. And I think, I think, I think it's, but we all sort of sat around and talked about it and I think everyone else will have done and it's just what where can that go? That was interesting to watch. It's an interesting. As long as yours is in 120 lbs. Sorry. As long as the Martin 1 isn't £120 like the Verilite 1 is. Is it £120 that light? Yep, serious 120 lbs. Did they throw out any prices? No.

28:40 Because that's the other. Thing they're saying. It's made in. They're saying it's made in Texas. But you know, how expensive is it gonna be? Like, I don't know, My, my, my gut feeling, like if I was a designer, I'd be looking at it going, yeah, it's cool. Do I need it? Like, where can I use this thing? You know, is it something I gotta have? I don't see it. Well, ultimately for a lot of that stuff, it's, it's about making a compelling case to the client, you know, and does it do something that you can't get any other fixture to do that makes it worth a premium. And I think it's an interesting concept. I didn't see the thing. Patrick, do you see it? Yeah, I I did and and I saw it with Marcel, actually.

29:22 Yeah, and Oh yeah. Was was wildly unimpressed by it. I think it was the only person who was kind of being honest about. I thought it was kind of lackluster. Right, but you're not the only person I've heard say that mate. It did. It's interesting. And I liken it to GLP originally taking that leap to put an LED light engine in a moving head. And we had, we had all been begging for that as a Holy Grail for the longest time and get away from discharge lamps. And they did it. And we all went, yeah, not good. Enough. Because it wasn't bright enough to to make the impact, but someone had to break that technology and, and take the hit, right. And I see this as being that when you know, they've got the intensity, it's very cool.

30:13 It does something unique, but it's ultimately too resolution enough right now to to make the impact. Like if you're going to sell it to theatre designers because they can do amazing fire and water effects and everything, they're going to look at it and go, yeah it does, but God damn, it's 8 bit and really choppy. So I can get a projector projector I'll just stick with. A twin spin. Well, that's the thing. You do a fire effect with just about every fixture out there. No ones going to go oh, but that ones a digital fire effect precisely. And I think even the thing they're just, I applaud them for pioneering the way with this technology. I think it's going to be very cool in five.

30:53 Years. It reminded me very much of the DL1 and DL2 where great concept poorly executed. Which? Fix. You remember the you remember the Medusa? Yeah, I I felt it was a continue on from that is what I felt. Well, that was actually ironically enough, that was precisely what I had said to Marcel about it, because I was talking about how the technologies of these things and Medusa was one of those things leads to other stuff. So one of the, the little known things about the, the Medusa project, which which ultimately came Icon M, which had a grand total of I think 32 units globally made that had a a timer in it that was able to. They had to figure out a way with this thing projecting digital imagery to index the gobos perfectly together so that when you you stopped something, they, they would stay linked. So just like indexing gobos in general and they figured out how to basically make all the other lights in a chain follow the first guy and they would sync to him. It was sort of like a a poor man's genlock, if you will, for videos broadcast.

32:14 And ultimately that was the technology digitally that they used in the M box to synchronize the QuickTime videos across multiple M boxes. So you know that whereas the Icon M you could say failed and just never really made it to market, the technologies that came out of that R&D went on to pay dividends for them later on. And I think we're gonna see a lot of that with this technology. That's, yeah, I agree. That's a good assessment. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Interesting that there was a new media server at LDI 2 also called Hive, which was a little confusing.

32:56 Yeah, that was that Nigel Sadler has who originally had green Hippo or. Worked for green hippo. So interesting. I didn't. See that video? People really like that. Yeah, you've got Nigel Sadler from Green Hippo, Dave Green from Ava Lights and Dave D Free. It's an interesting team there and a really nice product. To be honest, it's looking a bit interesting at at Hive at the moment it. Was very well received. Yeah, that anyone notice how many new movie like brands there were at this show that I'd like never seen before and never heard of?

33:41 Like, there was one funny story I was on. You know, one thing funny about living in South Florida as you fly back with lots of interesting people from an LDI show. So on my flight, you know, there were Roby people and there were Chauvet people and there were whatever inner circle people. And so I had Deanna from Chauvet right in front of me. And when we were waiting to get off the plane, I said, hey, how was your show? Oh, yeah, we had a great show, blah, blah, blah. And I said hey. Who's that company bollocks like I never heard of them before and I saw. This company bollocks. Who are they? And she says, or she didn't say anything.

34:24 The guy across the aisle from me goes, that's me. And I'm like, oh, hey, who are you? Like, I've never seen or heard of this guy before, right? So I end up talking to him all the way through the airport. And I come to find out that, you know, Nick Freed, who I basically brought into the industry, was best friends with his dad, Dan Fallon, who I know very well. And so he brought this kid into Inner Circle. He worked at Inner Circle for a few years and then went and started his own brand and imported a bunch of Chinese stuff and, and off he went. But a nice booth, really well designed by Michael Meacham. You know, the programming I thought was pretty good. As a comment.

35:10 Yeah, I mean, I, I thought it was great like it was, you know? And it's got 12 gobos. And then it would go through the different gobos and like the the voice over and the programming and the the time coding and stuff I thought was pretty, pretty decent. But there were a bunch of those. Like there were a bunch of sort of no name Chinese brands that looked really good at that show, I thought. The MA3 clone in Fine Lines booth. Yeah, yeah, we talked about. That all that? Yeah. Wild. Yeah, well. John Featherstone was just telling us that he just did a show over in in UAE. You tell the story, John. Yeah, in Saudi Arabia, yeah, the consoles were the only way I could tell, you could really tell the difference was there were 3 pin XLR instead of fives.

35:56 It was uncannying, disturbing level of detail to the quality to the to the cloning of the boards. MA two, though, right, John MA. Twos, yeah, MA twos. Yeah. Interesting that What did they do for the screens? I mean, you know, we know the big issue with twos right now is that the screens are gone to shake. So they, they, we loaded up the show file we've done in the States with everything including, including lock screens, and it ran just fine. So they're sourcing. They're sourcing the screen somewhere. Wow. Same aspect ratios, same level of touch control. You know, Chris Herman, who was programming, he was like, yeah. I mean, other than the buttons sound a bit different. He's like, you can tell the difference.

36:38 Yeah. That's, that's going to be interesting because I know a lot of guys who are still kind of not trying to use the three. And I was like, dude, where are you going to go? Because there's not a whole lot of places left to go with two, right? Well, and one would imagine sooner or later MA are going to stop supporting it. They they, it can't be a sustainable business model for them. I. Think I. Think technically they are no longer supporting it, they're just having to package it with the, you know, the Graname 3 update software as. It right right. I had dinner last night with an LD from Vegas and he's learning free, say, he said. What's the point learning to, you know, it's going that way, We've got to work that way.

37:25 Very true. Yeah, At this point everybody's shifting over to it. I mean, it's at a point where it's at least the software on the three platform is stable enough where you're not overly concerned. But now it's just the the frustrations of certain features of it, which has been been the same way on each release that they've ever done. And the other problem though is historically between the MA one. Timeline and the area 2 timeline and everything else the MA where will the Chinese? You know it's going to be up and done before it's a fully functioning, viable desk. Right. Yeah. Do we think the Chinese will catch up on desks? Do you think the Chinese will catch up on desks? I'll tell you what, Gordon, five years ago I would have said no way.

38:14 But today I would say absolutely. I think they will absolutely, because. You think you think you think it's a big enough market? Software. You think it's I think I mean, certainly, I mean, Ben will back me up here. The biggest standing Plaza this year was beams and actually bigger than the Roby stand. And yeah, but that's, that's, yeah. But is the market bigger, the soft, the software development and the cost of software development is huge. So, so from a point of view of it's a crowded market player with a place with a two or three really strong brands and some really good challenge for brands already there, I just don't think there's a yeah.

38:58 But I think. I think it's if a good Chinese manufacturer like an Acme, a Golden Sea, one of the big ones, if they were to produce a desk that looks similar, feels similar, does a lot of the same stuff, works as well as an MA 2 for example, or an MA 3 and is 20 five, $30,000 and. Their. Model their model is going to be that they charge 1000 bucks for software updates. You know that's how they're going to do it because right now, like that's the argument with Mama, with Avo, with any of these companies, any actually any software company, they're going to say we charge so much because we give you free updates and there's some logic to that. It costs a lot of money to support those consoles over the years, but I think that that's a model we're going to see. We're going to see somebody come out with a $25,000 kick ass concert touring console with all the because I mean, I will say it because because it's true.

40:02 But I think MA, some of the costs for some of the peripheral stuff is crazy. You know, the MP, US and stuff like that where you open the unit up and there's nothing to it and it's thousands. Of dollars, yeah, It's basically a software license box. Yeah, it's a software license box, right and. So. That's where I think that could go. But you know, you're right. I mean like the problem is getting guys like Cosmo and and whoever, John Featherstone anyone to program a new console or to learn a new language. And you've got and you've got to get market, you've got to get a market adoption really quickly. As well, because.

40:46 Whatever Chinese, whatever Chinese manufacturer makes it, they just got to get Bob Gordon to push it and promote it and then. Industry standing. I just, I just spent, I just spent, I spent some good time with Bob Gordon and I think the the ship has sailed. But you know, we're going to have to find a new console importer. Bobby ain't doing it this time. So you've got, you've got, you've got to get, you can swap in movers, you can swap in and out of those fine. But you've got to, you've got to have a hundred, 203 hundred, 400 desks in all the shops. But do you want to be pretty damn quick? Because otherwise, you know you're not going to get out there with one or two quick. But what if? What if it was a? Similar console, but it had full cloning functionality and and all that. Kind of stuff like where you.

41:31 Can put. Files from an MA 3 into it. And you can do 3/3 for the price of one an AOL. Yeah, I see that that way Marcel as well. I really do. And. I think it's going to happen because the market is big enough, I believe. It's all fun. And games until the manufacturer, the original 1, starts putting in little bits of code that finds the copies. Yep, and do what? And crash it into. It How is Avo doing lately? Yeah. It works well. We, we went through a, a big problem with this stuff on a, on a global festival client and MA was directly supporting us for a long time.

42:22 And one, it all came to a problematic head at one point where I had a, an MA representative that flew all the way to, I think it was like Bogota or something for this huge festival we're doing. And I get the call, I have a problem here. I can't support any of this. And I'm terrified to let anybody at the office know because I got here and it's all fake gear. And so, so now they've sent an MA Rep to solve the software issues of a Chinese, full complement of Chinese product that's knock off but using their software. And he's like, I don't really know where to go here. This is this is a problem.

43:04 Yeah, that can be a bit problematic. It's a big welcome to Colleen and Bob. Hi, guys. Thank. You. No, I'm having my favorite tiki bar and. Where are you, Colleen? I just, I'm at home, so I'm in Hendersonville, TN. So time off. Yes, I got home three days ago so yeah, from what From what show I was actually I also have events do other random things with down for Universal epic that's in Orlando, so setting up or what's going to happen in January so. Bob, mute your mic.

44:10 Oh, sorry, thank you. You might have to say. That very loud. I have no idea what you said, Colleen, but. Exactly. You got to repeat that. You're welcome. Please say that again, Colleen. I was down in Orlando setting up, well, getting ready for the rehearsal process that's going to happen in January for one of the live shows at Universal Epic. So the new theme park that's opening. Oh, cool. Fun. Yeah. It's it's very, I help them in in the pandemic in Beijing. And so it's really interesting to watch a theme park come together. It's very, very different than concerts. When does it open?

44:55 The actual opening date is May 22nd. The soft opening I believe is March something. So we, I'm just letting you know, we have to have, we have to have one of four casts on stage ready to go for audience, for audiences by March 1st. Wow. And currently we don't have a theater. Good times. Currently the theater is still being constructed. So it's really, it's a it's a very interesting process to deal with like the county and like all of that coming in and being like, you can't do this.

45:40 And why it's there holes in the stage. It's like, well, those are for CO2 fence. Oh, you can't have that. No, no, no, they just, they just it's OK. Nobody's going to get hurt. It's that kind of thing. And they're like, oh, that's against regulations. It's like no, no, no, no. It's really no, it's really not. Yeah, it's going to be OK. I promise everybody. It's going to be OK. It looks different here. Hasn't done that, you know. I have to ship out everybody. I have a lovely wife who's enjoying a birthday today and we're off to dinner. Happy, Happy Christmas, Merry holidays to everyone. Hopefully you have more of your faces next year and you and I hope everybody has a safe and happy holiday season.

46:27 Happy. See you later, Martin. Yeah, this time we're going. Goodnight. Oh, I'm going to say hello. Great seeing. You. We're going to. Bed. Gorgeous. It's early for gourd. What the hell? What happened to Gordon Jesus? Well, it looked like it looked like he was drinking milk, but I'm sure he wasn't drinking White Russian. Yeah, it wasn't milk. You don't smoke cigarettes with milk. Yeah, well, actually, it's because of Gordon. I'm actually here. So thank you, Gordon. I know you've gone now, but yeah, Gordon did introduce us.

47:09 Yeah. Gordon's another one of those. He's another John Wiseman and Keith Richards. You know he's pickled like the man. The man. Can do whatever he wants to do, apparently. And how well do you know Gordon? You must know him Well, yeah. Legendary. Yeah, Legend. There's a There are stories of Gordon. So much for sure, so much old. I I've been with him on most of those stories, sadly so. John Wiseman isn't as old as Keith Richards, is he? How do you know how old Wiseman is? Well, no. Keith Richards is 80. John is like 66 I think. You know, even as old as I sell in 80. Months, right?

47:55 Yeah, Well, Keith Richards birthday I think is today. I think I saw. So is it? Really. Yeah, I think is he, what, 81 or something? Yep, he's 80. I'm going to Google it right now because I believe it happened. Yeah, it's today. It is Keith Richard's birthday. He is. Especially. Amazing. You're listening. That blows my mind. I was talking with Marty Ham about that because Marty was the tour manager, I think for the Stones this year. And, and he was just talking about the exercise routine and stuff that Mick Jagger went through because, you know, Mick running up and down the ramps and like crazy stuff at 81 years old.

48:48 Insane. Just unbelievable. Blows my mind, I have to say, you know. Well, The funny thing is, when you get to be that age, you don't realize you, don't you? I mean, it's harder obviously to do it than when you were 31, but you don't think you're old. Yeah, but I'm 60 and I don't know if I could run back and forth up and down those ramps. Yeah, but he's been doing it his whole life, so. That's. True. No. No other way. Yeah. Yeah, he's a pro. He's a pro. I tell you. I really want to be with Bobby's right now because it looks lovely. Look at it. What's that? I want to be where Bobby is now. Oh yeah? Well, we all want. To be where? Bobby is every day. Yeah.

49:30 OK, Bobby, you got to turn your mic on, buddy. You got me trained already. Thank you. I know anyway, we have a sailboats outside here. This is a beautiful place to be. This is this is my favorite my favorite cheeky bar. Let me tell you the the puffer fish up top here and this. Place is just. Awesome. What's a tiki bar without puffer fish, right? Yeah. Well, this is called La Mariana's and it it's where all tiki bars have gone to die when they've been torn down in Waikiki. Somebody says I got puffer fish with spikes. You want them?

50:12 Oh, yeah, I want those. I want those. There's a working waterfall in the back. There's all kinds of tikis that are from the 1920s and I think the oldest thing here is late 1800s from the sailing ships. But but it's not, it's not that old. It was built in the 40's. The guy had a boat out here offshore and he wanted a place to drink with his buddies. He started with a Kwanzaa Hut and kept building it out and tried to condemn it, Take it probably 20-30 times and I managed to avoid it. That the string lights on the on the roof were like just stapled in raw.

50:55 You know, there's a lot of things that would be pretty questionable at one time. Bob. Bob, I've never asked you this, but there's a guy I used to be friends with. You're not friends with him now. I haven't talked to him in 15 years, but I was friends with him and he's an audio guy and he was married to Don Ho's daughter. What? Wow, who is that? No, not offhand. And he lived somewhere up on the the mountain, that's the volcano, whatever that Diamond Head, he lived somewhere up like part of the way up that mountain. I'll, I'll look for that now. I don't want to spill this. My my lunch is. Blown off completely.

51:36 Yeah, I know. Sorry. Chicken wings is fun. My my lunch is staying. This is coconut shrimp and. Bob is the master of show and tell. Anyways, now he's just We're in the right place at the right time. Are the coconut? Drinks in my lifetime. Oh my gosh, I'm not sure. Allow me to let let you know. Yeah, they're very much so. Yeah, good for you. So anything else have we missed? Cosmo, you got anything between now and ACDC? Work wise now just conferences between Live Production Summit and ma'am, we're going to go to the soft opening of the universal thing with Colleen so.

52:33 I'm. Going to see Colleen in January. Cosmo, I want to know about the conference at Litit. How was that and what what were they doing and why did 1200 people go there? The conference at Lititz, why did 1200 people go? I mean, I don't know. They said 1200 people went. I didn't count. It's it's. I saw your Facebook it looked like about 11150 actually on. Your selfie and you took it all over them, Cosmo. Yeah, picky, Picky.

53:14 It's, it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's obviously it's, it's a bunch of panels. I mean, it's a gathering of old friends. There's a lot of younger people there, you know, cost money. So I mean ticket and hotels and flights and it's lit. It's it's not like some major city. Yeah, it's hard to get to. And did you? Fly to Philadelphia and drive. The last year I flew to Philly. This year I flew to Harrisburg. Harrisburg's 30 minutes, Philly's an hour and a half, you know? Yeah, it was. It's the same, right? I connect to Atlanta anyway, so it doesn't matter. Last year I stayed in an Airbnb. This year I stayed in a in a regular hotel.

53:56 The conference is good. It's some of the panels. It's a mixed bag of panels. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't interest me particularly and there's stuff that does and they want me to be on panels. So we'll see what happens next year. The, IT was very, for lack of a better word, it was a little too woke. And what I, what I mean by that is I, I think they tried to. And here's the thing that having said that, the younger people at the conference pushed back on that, that, you know, which was which kind of made me feel good because the, the one thing they were talking like the first, the first day of the conference, they were talking about, you know, having the idea of bringing a therapist on the road, you know, as a crew member And, and, and everybody's like, no, no, no, no, we're not going to bring a therapist on their own.

54:48 The one thing I will say about the conference in that respect, besides the, the technical and, you know, there was like meetings about security and tour management and production management and the lighting round tables. But the one thing that I thought was kind of cool is is bringing awareness to not just mental health, but like physical health and trying to make the, the road a bit better. And it's only awareness. Like I said, we're not going to bring a therapist. You know, even even people were like, we're, we're going to have 18 hour work days. The show was going to happen, you know, and, and I think that most people realize that we're not the young people aren't trying to change the business to where you do 1 show a week so you can get a good night's sleep and, and not travel too hard or work too hard. I really think that most of the people are it's like one person, she said.

55:38 When I work 18 hours and threw three in a row as I wear it like a badge of honor, you know, because it's hard work and we did it. So, you know that that that that I kind of got from the conference that it was, you know, it's the young people are pushing back and want to work hard and they realize what it takes to put it together a shelf. But there's also. The, the thing that I found really good about the conference was that just that because like, you know, a lot of these schools that these kids are going to don't tell them about, you're going to work 18 hours, you're going to work seven days a week, you're going to give up your family life. And it's a, it's a big commitment. It's not just a job. And then these kids get out on a tour and they're like, oh, this isn't what I signed up for. This isn't what I was told. So I did like that about it.

56:21 And a lot of the conversations telling these new people coming into the industry that this is what, it's not all glitz and glamour. This is what it really is. Yeah. And, and you know, as, as I said, I found most of the young people I talked to were aware and, and willing because they had that much passion about doing it. You know, and, and I, I think that she's a, she's a very young tour manager, but she said, she said, I think that the industry needs to recognize the crews need to be valued and not expendable. And I said, I agree, that's a very good way to put it, that crews should be valued and not being told they're expendable unless they are, you know, because in the old days when I started, it's like there's five guys behind.

57:10 It'll take your job in a minute. And The thing is, though, if there's a guy behind me, he's going to take my job because I suck, then so be it. But yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, so you're expendable if you don't work hard and if you suck. But but I understand what what she was saying. And that made a lot of sense. Cool. Interesting, very interesting. They're going to do this conversation. I had a friend of mine. I have a friend of mine, Hidei Hideiaki. I'm sorry, I'm a little froggy right now, but my my buddy Hideiaki used to work for me.

57:51 He became a professor in Texas and he he hadn't like he was doing finals with his kids where they were supposed to get come in and, you know, light his show a little bit for him in order to prove they could do it. And when he went there, he saw that there was a Ryder truck that was parked. And he, he basically said, and he pointed to the Ryder truck and he goes, OK, Susie, you're up. The last guy, he's just now put the last of the gear into that truck. Now you're going to open that truck and pull everything out and set it all up off in the beginning and like your show, and then return it to the truck as he did anyway. That's great. That's that's, that's a life learning lesson really quick.

58:35 Yeah. Well, I think that that's a big question these days of what the universities are teaching people and are they really ready for the kind of jobs that are out there. I don't think they are. I think they are. They're. Because. The university. They're not being pushed. They're not. You know, it's not like the old days where you know, you, you start working in a lighting shop like AAC Factor or a bash and you just thrown out there and it's a sink or swim, you know, kind of thing. Now you know, everyone is, you know, triggered and emotional and then, you know, not wanting to work as hard. Not everyone, but a lot of them, you know, so. It's well on the other hand, we keep. Running good ones now.

59:20 Now, on the other hand, we keep running into like, you know, we've got these Pat McKay diversity and design scholarships that John and Late Switch have generously supported for the past two years. And on some of these interviews, these kids are like, well, I have a rental company and I own, you know, 3 grand Ma's and I drive up and down Oklahoma and I'm the only person in the state that has them and I can't rent them out fast enough. And you're like, yeah, that he knows you know what he's doing. It's, you know. These kids are amazing. There's a lot of, there's a lot of really sharp kids out there, but you know, piling on a little bit to, to what Craig said, Like a lot of times when I'm hiring people or when I'm interviewing people, you find that like a lot of these, and I hate to use the word, but a lot of these woke concepts come up during interviews where it's like entirely focused on how much vacation time or it's entirely focused on. What's in it for me?

1:00:16 You know, not what can I do for you, but what's in it for me? And so, yeah, I mean, some of that stuff becomes a bit challenging. However, you know, I run a completely remote business that really celebrates people having free time, free space, the ability to pick up their kids, drop off their kids, go to the soccer game in the afternoon, all of that kind of stuff. So, you know, I know we're pulling away from that now, like a lot of companies who did I read about today, another big company is pulling all their staff back into the office and stuff. And, you know, that's a bit tragic because I think that's one of the things that I love during COVID is that people could work from home. And, you know, I happen to believe in that. For every company.

1:01:01 No, For my company and a lot of companies, yes. So hi, Jeff Rabbits. Hey, hi. We're the same way, Marcel. We're, we're brick, we're brick and mortar offices, but but we have a lot of people that work remotely as well. We don't care so long as you get the work done. But I think one of the challenges we see is unrealistic expectation alignment from particularly higher education. You know, kids have come to us because they've been told by their professors at university that they're going to make 100 grand coming right out of school. And we have people that come to us and say, I'm not interested in the job of them not designing shows. And it's like, well, then we're not interested in hiring you. I'm really sorry. We just can't, we just can't do that. And and not appropriate skill sets.

1:01:42 People coming to us with a, with bachelor's qualifications in design that don't know how to draft in 3D. People coming to us who have told their professors they want to work in concert touring and have been taught the EOS. Nothing wrong with the EOS, but if you want to work in concert touring, it's useless learning the EOS. If you want to go work on Broadway, that's fantastic. But it, and I think so many students don't grasp the notion that that most higher education is, is a fee for service business. And they're going to tell you what they think you want to hear to get your money. And if you think this is like going to middle school or high school, that there's something symbiotic there, this is a business proposition. If the school isn't delivering what you what you want, you should go to a different school because this, this is a bit, whether you're, whether you're on a scholarship or not, somebody is paying for you to be there. So I think helping students understand that they should be educated consumers of their education experience would be really super helpful and.

1:02:40 It's just the the education system is just leading into the entitlement of some of these kids where, you know, we see it a lot with with techs now that you know, like you have show guys that you know, oh, you're not doing a show, come into the shop and help with the shop. Well, no, I don't, I don't work in the shop. That's beneath me. Like, no, that's it's not how it works in the real world. Yeah, good luck. Good luck doing a show without decent people in the shop. If you don't have decent people in the shop, it's true. There's, there's a guy in the UK called Lee Dennison, some of you might know him, a really good guy. He used to go around and do talks with White Light when he worked at White Light and he would go into further education colleges and he would sit down. The first question he would ask tells the story.

1:03:22 You sit down and ask people who am I, what have I done and who what am I about? And the students were going, I don't know. And it's like you can go and fart is the attitude change, right? You could go and type his name in and say you've got an industry expert, he's coming in to talk to you. They give you guidance, career support. You don't know who you're saying. Well, you can go look him up and find out what his background is or anything like that. Nobody would do that. And so it's just a, it's just a mental, it's even. Worse than that, because I'll. Interview being proactive. You know, I'll interview people and I'll say, you know, tell me one thing about my company. They can't, right? You know, and, but yet when I was being interviewed by people, I would know everything about their company, you know, and. The Internet you were looking at.

1:04:04 It's even easier now. Yeah, you can literally on the bus on the way to your interview, 10 minutes, right, Instagram, know everything you need to know you can get past. It's the. Information. Ignorance is a choice. Right, Pat McKay always used to say. Pat McKay always used to say. If her name was spelled wrong on the cover letter, the whole thing went in the trash. Damn, no wonder I never got a. Response from her. Hey Jeff, what's new in LA? It's hot today. We just never know, but in about 3 hours it'll be down to like 40 or 50.

1:04:44 It's just we're in that period of time where you walk out the door in the morning with a heavy. Jacket and three hours later you're stripping it off, so you know. Come to Chicago, Jeff Rabbits. We'll show. We'll show you about a heavy jacket, mate. Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. I I take my time in Chicago. Yeah, I know. I know it. Was 86. It was 86 even by the water here, Jeff. So it's got to be hot where you are. Wow. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, all good, though. Not much happening. Things are, you know, beginning to wind down. I've got a little bit more work between now and the holidays and then I'm turning it off. Right.

1:05:24 Wow, good for you. Yeah, taking a break. Is anybody doing anything like incredibly amazing between now and the end of the year work wise? Man, New Year's Eve entertainment's gonna suck. Yeah. It's true. Sounds like it. Well, last night, last night, Eggshell Lighting did the grand opening for Cirque du Soleil's first theatre here in Honolulu. Yeah, they what they brought all the gear. They bought it, you know, from Vegas and like to do the show that would, you know, we did the, the red carpet, the interview space, the lights to the sky. And I also debuted the Minute Uni Photon and Dice and their entertainment stage after the event. They all went really, really well. What show is it?

1:06:22 It's actually called a wanted. It is a written and modified for Hawaii production. Where is it? It's in Waikiki. It's in the Waikiki Beachcomber, but actually, yeah. And it's it's certainly the largest approach for a theatrical type show that's ever happened there. And. It's in there. They they put one of their own structures up for it on the property or is it in the theater? There was a previous theater for John and Hirakawa, the Magic of Polynesia, and that audience was starting to wane. And they really strip the theater and turn it into you. You know, it's it's them all everywhere, plenty of branding and it's not just a theater where something's happening. Just to see now we're on a 2 day turn around and we do Andrew Schultz, I guess he's the a comedian goes in on Friday, show Saturday and that'll be the last for. Experience, by the way, you should go see it. Yeah, well.

1:07:25 It's a. It's a. Great show. I will indeed. We just did Joe Koi for three nights. That went really well and our calendar is looking very good for next year, so. Good for you man. I'm proud of everyone here. Who are? What was that? Who are the designers for the show? Do you know who did the lighting? I think the designers are most of the district camp. Right. Give me a second, I'll get back to you. I'm. Sorry, I'll look it up. I'll I'll Google. It Luke plus. Fortune is back. Like there's some new show going into Vegas or something and it's Luke designing it.

1:08:08 Will Luke read? I thought he was gone. And he just redid me stare and he's redoing Oh I didn't hear about a new one but he did just redo 2. But wasn't he, like I said, he retired or something? I. Haven't heard Luke's name in ages. He basically did, but they they pulling him out of retirement. It's kind of a cool concept to bring the original guy back to redo. Yeah, very. Cool. Yeah, it's very cool. I like Luke. He's a, he's an interesting. Phenomenal. Well, considering that they get royalties, I think he may have first right of refusal. I can I can tell you that Benny Kirkham was the the programmer for this girl. Very cool. He actually came out here.

1:08:49 We spent a lot of time, you know, off and on. It's the Last Vegas and then he can't finally comes in in my neighborhood and neither of us hasn't much time and I wouldn't see him again until the recent LDI there we there we were again. So it's kind of funny that he came into my neighborhood for three months never had time. This is the way it goes. And how is the show? I haven't seen it yet. It's it's tonight we the first step paying audience. Oh cool, based on Hawaiian culture. Yes. Bob, Bob, have you seen the picture from the dinosaur thing where I think Seth Jackson posted it where there's like 6 guys and they're all holding your coffee but you're not in the picture? Yeah.

1:09:41 I did. I did see that post. I was pretty honored. Thank you. Yeah, it's a good picture. Great picture. As always, you. Were with traditions. I don't know the lighting designer because his name is Hugo Mercier Bosani. I know who he. Is there you go. You do. I think I actually met him. I think he was at the Formula One thing that I went to with Craig Burrows in Miami a few months ago in April. Cool, yeah. I'm pretty sure he was there. Yeah. I think I remember him telling me about that show, in fact. Well, there you go. Hey, Speaking of going, I got to head off. I think we all do at this point. Look at this.

1:10:53 Wait, how did I do it? I don't know. Fist bump. I don't know. How do you do balloons? I don't know. You did it before. There are you? Are you done way? Have you done Confetti now? I don't know, I. Don't know how to make it happen. Me neither. I can't do it. Oh well. Wave your hands again. There. Go to bed. Yeah, I know. Patrick. Patrick, go eat dinner or something. That's too. Early for that. Very Merry Christmas guys. Happy new. Year. AVL Media Group connecting the world's most trusted audio brands with professionals like you from their large diaphragm studio or versatile handheld live performance mics, cast and microphones deliver clarity and precision.

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