#279 - John Featherstone

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Hi there, just finished
recording episode number 279

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with my great friend John
Featherstone.

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We ventured into politics, we
ventured into our industry a

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lot.
Just people.

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How people treat people, how
people should treat people.

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As you might imagine, John is a
great man who loves to help

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people, cares about people more
than anything.

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Family Guy and it was just a an
excellent conversation.

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I loved it.
I enjoyed it and I hope you do

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as well.
Hello and thank you for joining

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me today on Gears of Gear,
episode number 279.

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So I'm kind of getting a bit
excited about this dining with

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dinosaurs thing at LDI this
year.

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And if you haven't heard about
it, I will tell you again, we've

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got a whole bunch of incredible
legends of our industry who are

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going to be sitting at round
tables having lunch with 10 or

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12 of their new friends who are
either paying to be in this

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event or have this event as part
of their LD.

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I, I think full conference or
whatever it's called.

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But there's a full conference
pass that you can get that

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includes this event.
Again, it's called Dining with

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Dinosaurs.
It is on December 9th from 12:30

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till 2:00 PM.
If you're hearing this after

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that date, I apologize for
wasting your time, but it is

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going to be a lot of fun and go
there if you're going to be in

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town.
I understand that it's probably

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already sold out, but knowing my
friends at LDI, they'll find a

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way to stuff more people in
there.

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And it's our first year and
we're hoping that this is going

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to become a perennial event.
So we appreciate the support and

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love that we're getting about
this thing.

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It's really growing beyond what
we expected, and so it's going

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to be a lot of fun.
And by the way, if you need a

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show pass to get into LDI, we
have a discount code, which is

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one word Geezers of gear.
So if you have not registered

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yet, you can register for free
to go to the trade show.

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It won't include all access or
full conference, but it will get

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you into the trade show itself.
And again, that discount code is

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Geezers of Gear.
And lastly, as I always say,

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please like, subscribe, share
our podcast wherever you're

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watching or listening to it.
That is really the best way to

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grow this podcast, which
certainly helps our guests, it

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helps our sponsors, it helps me,
it helps Sarah a lot.

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And God knows she needs help.
And so we appreciate all the

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love that we're starting to get,
especially on socials and on

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YouTube, but we need more.
So this isn't an ego thing.

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It's just growing a podcast
that's for the the good of the

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industry and for the good of the
guests and and sponsors who are

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supporting us.
So we appreciate.

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That and finally today's guest
John Featherstone is principal

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and managing director of Light
Switch.

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Born and educated in the UK,
John met 4 lads who had just

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formed a band called The Smiths.
Hit the road with The Smiths for

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a very long time, and he then
spent a decade touring under the

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watchful eye of Roy Bennett with
bands like Duran Duran, In

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Excess, Janet Jackson and Van
Halen, just to name a few small

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names.
John met Norm Schwab in 1986,

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the same trip in the United
States where he met his wife

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Kathy.
He moved to the United States in

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1989, founded Light Switch in 93
with Norm.

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Today, Light Switch creates
visual design for dynamic lives,

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live events and compelling
architectural environments.

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John is married to Kathy and
they have two wonderful

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daughters, Haley and Ella, who
are also both in the industry,

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which is an incredible family
they've got going on there.

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So please, please, please
welcome my great friend John

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Featherstone to Geezers of Gear.
Well, hello there, Sir.

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How are you?
I am well, How are you, my dear

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friend?
Well, I am well too.

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I am actually very well.
It's Friday as we record this

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and I've got almost zero plans
for this weekend.

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I'm going to watch a Formula One
race in Las Vegas on television.

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I'm not fortunate enough to be
there, but or crazy enough to be

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there.
You know, I don't know about

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you, but that's a scene that I'm
not sure like.

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I think I've aged out of wanting
to be in crowds like that.

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You know you.
Know, you know, Marcel, I talk

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about this all the time.
You know, a lot of the

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younglings around us have talked
about this notion of FOMO, this

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fear of missing out.
I embrace Jomo, which is the joy

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of missing out, which is, which
is like, no, no, no, I'm going

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to stay home and I watch it on
TV.

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I'm going to read my book.
I'm going to have a bath and a,

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you know, and a glass of wine.
And I'm going to embrace the joy

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of missing out.
I love that.

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Yeah, that's I'm using that.
I'm borrowing that one from you,

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Sir, because it.
Is yours to use.

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Yeah, I'm the same.
Like, you know, honestly, I know

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a lot of people in our industry
bug people for tickets and stuff

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and I never do.
But when somebody says I really

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want you to come see the show,
I'll go see the show.

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Yeah.
And but other than that, there's

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no shows that I got to see at
this point, like very few.

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I mean, the David Gilmour one I
was really excited to go to

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because that was I'm.
So disappointed I didn't see

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that.
They just lost.

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Astonishing, astonishing.
And I've and sound really along

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with a huge fan of Mark in his
work.

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Yeah, it truly is remarkable to
see somebody really move the

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needle for all of us in terms of
thinking about the way not only

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go we got off to down at the
tangent already, but not only

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the way that that lighting is
presented as an art form, but

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the human interface with that I
think is is astonishing.

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So I'm just I'm just a big of a
fan of a tightly cute time coded

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to the beat show.
You know, there's one of one of

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my knocking around at the moment
that that that that seems to be

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reaching to some people.
But the way that Mark has

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reinvented that human interface,
I think is truly transformative.

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Certainly, certainly for Mark
and for his client, You know

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what it's all about.
It's about being appropriate.

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Yeah, and you probably didn't
hear the podcast that he did

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with me, but he said, and this
is kind of sad, but Mark said if

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this is the last tour, I'm.
Doing I was like, yeah, where am

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I going?
To get a good idea, the last

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touring tour I'm doing, I want
to.

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I want to play.
I want to be a part of it.

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I want to, I want to control the
show.

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And so he just wanted that real
kinetic feel of, of controlling

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the show.
And I think he took it to an

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extreme.
Oh, and I, I think that sense of

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play is really important.
Mark and I both both have shared

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the experience of, of, of being
fortunate enough to work with

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Hans Zimmer.
You know, Hans talks about play

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all the time and how important
that is.

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And, and you talk about playing
an instrument, but he's like,

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no, really have it be play and
have it be fun.

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And I think sometimes we can get
a little in our own heads in a

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little kind of caught up in the,
you know, in, in, in the, the

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minutiae of what we do, but what
we do is create and, and

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literally bring light to people.
And I think what Mark did and I

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watched, watched the videos of,
of, of Mark performing in Mark's

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way during the show.
And he was clearly just having a

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blast, which, which is like, I
don't really super care what

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people do, but I do hope that
people enjoy what they're doing.

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And after the time Mark was,
Mark was clearly having a blast.

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And that alone, even if the show
looked like shit and it didn't,

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but he was having a blast.
That would be astonishing.

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Anyway, there's there's a number
of designers out there who were

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renowned for their sort of dance
routines in front of the house

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just 'cause they're having a
blast.

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They have a great job they want.
We want an amazing job.

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Jason was the best.
Jason, I don't know if he still

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does it, but Jason the blue
haired LD was by far the best.

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Like that guy, I never saw
anybody.

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He could have been part of the
band easily, you know, jumping

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around and slamming his head and
just a lunatic.

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And I think I think the crowd
got off on that back, back back

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in the day many, many moons ago.
And Janet Jackson, we there was

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one number where the whole front
of house group, you know, the

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four of us that were running the
show lighting wise and the audio

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guys in a goofy little dance
routine and sync through what

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was going on in the state.
And the audience around us love

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them.
We, we, we just had fun.

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We were just enjoying ourselves
right that.

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Is funny, yeah.
So, you know, I know that there

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are people who, I mean, I think
95% of the people who listen to

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this podcast know who you are,
know your background, probably

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know your entire career.
But for the, for the few who

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have just kind of crawled out of
holes or fallen from space, you

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know, they came in on UFOs,
whatever it is, you know, you

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have such a cool beginning.
I mean, past the school in the

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theater part, but how it really
started, like the, the fun part

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is so interesting.
But I mean, you can start from

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the school in the the beginning
if you'd like.

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But if you wouldn't mind sharing
how you got into the biz?

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Sure.
Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, I was, I was very, very
fortunate.

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My aunt was the wardrobe
mistress in a English opera

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company, Kleinborn.
So I was always aware of kind of

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theatre and got involved with
doing theatre stuff when I was

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at school.
But, but my passion was and and

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still is really architecture.
My, my mom's dad was, it was, it

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was an architect.
Interestingly, my, my paternal

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grandfather was an electrician.
So it's almost like there's some

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kind of DNA going on here that's
interesting.

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But, but, but my mom's dad was
an architect and I was always

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really obsessed with
architecture And, and I was

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doing kind of theatre at school
and, and playing drums in bands

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and that kind of stuff.
But what I had my heart set on,

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I thought at the time was a
career in architecture.

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But then my Aunt Ruth, I used to
go down and hang out with her

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and see what they were doing at
Glyborne.

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And frankly, rap opera is
harder, I think, than concert

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touring.
And without the benefit of nice

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passes.
Oh my gosh, these people that

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are doing like rolling Libo M1
night, the magic through the

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next night, the marriage, you
figure out the next night and

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then keep looping around doing
these.

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00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,000
It's absolutely insane.
So I'd go down and hang out and

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00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,800
and get under foot.
But it wasn't really on my radar

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00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,120
that really myself, this was
even a job, you know, I wasn't

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00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,520
really going to that many gigs.
You know, I was like, I don't

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00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,040
know, 1415, I'd go to go to the
odd show here and there and my,

230
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,240
my father and I share a love of
music.

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00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,360
And, you know, he and I would go
and see shows, but the notion

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that somebody was actually doing
this wasn't really on my radar.

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00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,000
And this is the point at which
my kids, if they listen to this,

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00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,240
will start to roll their eyes
because this is dad's triumph

235
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,040
over adversity story.
So so I was playing drums in

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00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:53,320
garage bands about doing bad
Cure covers, mostly walking

237
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,760
around being English and emo and
mopy, and a kid moved into the

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00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,320
neighborhood who had a cooler
drum set.

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00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,160
So it was suggested I find
something else to do and I'm

240
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,960
like, but I'm a better drama.
I still contend I was opinions

241
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,840
vary and they were like, but
he's got a gold Ludwig, a gold

242
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,760
glitter Ludwig kit, same as
Ringo Starr.

243
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:14,680
I'm like, but I'm a better
drama.

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00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,360
But he's got a gold glitter kit.
Good life lesson #1 there.

245
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,080
So you know now Uber emo head
hung low.

246
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:28,960
I, I saw my drums and I've been
doing bits and pieces of, of

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00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,440
lighting stuff at, at, at
school, you know, at high,

248
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320
essentially a high school level
in, in the UK.

249
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,320
And then started to kind of
build up a little lighting

250
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,760
system with, with one of my best
friends, Carrie, who was, we

251
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,680
were best, best, best men in
each other's wedding, you know,

252
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,080
those kind of lifelong
friendships.

253
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,120
And, and not long after I
started doing this a little more

254
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,080
seriously, I fell in with a
bunch of lads in England who who

255
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,120
had really basically just formed
a bank called The Smiths.

256
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,640
So before I was even really
aware that that being a lighting

257
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,520
designer and certainly the
stage, I would never have been

258
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,080
as arrogant to call myself a
lighting designer.

259
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,920
But lighting person, lighting
guy, you know, we're all in the

260
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,160
back of a transit man doing
these shows.

261
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:14,000
And I was I was really fortunate
not only to me Johnny Ma and

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00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,360
we're still best of friends, you
know, and and Kathy and I had

263
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,560
the got parents for for for
Johnny son Niall and our kids

264
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,520
kind of grew up with with Johnny
and his wife, Angie Henriots and

265
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,880
uncles And he's such a great
guy, but also with the band that

266
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,400
had a really strong notion of
the ecstatic.

267
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,920
But Johnny and Morrissey were
and are very concerned with the

268
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,120
ecstatic and presentation of the
band.

269
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,640
And, and unusually, I was, I was
travelling with a band who had a

270
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,680
lighting designer with them on
the road, lighting person,

271
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,680
lighting guy before they had a
monitor engineer with them.

272
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,880
So they kind of made that, that,
that conscious decision myself.

273
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,600
So we, we developed this really
unusual aesthetic to the band, a

274
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,520
really tight color palette,
essentially, other than one

275
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,480
song, everything was green and
blue with a little bit of white.

276
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,600
So it was a very distinctive,
curated show.

277
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,440
I've been a always been a big
fan of of when in doubt, do

278
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,560
last.
If you don't like the way

279
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,920
something looks, turn some
lights off and, and people seem

280
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,880
to notice that and people seem
to like that.

281
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,080
And then like all good things,
The Smiths kind of imploded in a

282
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,720
fairly spectacular fashion.
And this is an indication of how

283
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,480
fortunate I am to have Johnny
Marr as a as, as a best friend

284
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,960
and the kind of person he is.
Smiths imploded.

285
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,320
It was kind of B Johnny, his
wife Angie sitting in their

286
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,080
house in Manchester going well,
what the hell are we going to do

287
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,240
now?
And and Chrissy Heine from the

288
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,880
Pretenders calls.
And since I hear you're without

289
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,000
band, I am without guitarist.
Do you want to play guitar on

290
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,200
the Pretenders?
And this is Johnny to AT he said

291
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,720
I'd love to I'd love to play in
the Pretenders, but there's only

292
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,480
really one person other than
Angie who stood by me when the

293
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,320
band split up.
And that's my friend John who

294
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,720
was doing the lights and I'm not
going to abandon him because he

295
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,520
didn't abandoned me.
So either he does the lights and

296
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,440
I play guitar or neither of us
comes.

297
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,319
It's sort of sort of a deal
breaker.

298
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:14,720
It's sort of a deal breaker.
And and that's and Johnny being

299
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,839
Johnny, and he's a very sort of
gentle, lovely, quiet person,

300
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,000
you know, said that that's that
was his deal breaker.

301
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,560
So fortunately they were sort of
between teams and and, you know,

302
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,120
right after The Smiths, I end up
working for the Pretenders and

303
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:33,600
we're at Rockin Rio and, you
know, I meet Patrick Woodruff,

304
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,880
somebody, you know, who was had
and still is a big influence on

305
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,400
my work and all of these bands
rolling through.

306
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,560
And then it just kind of
snowballed from there, Marcel,

307
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,480
you know, so from there, you
know, Duran Duran were on the

308
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:46,720
bill.
They saw the work I did with the

309
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,840
Pretenders when Roy Bennett was
designing for Duran and he

310
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,920
mentioned my name.
That sort of connected those

311
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,320
dots.
And I was very fortunate there

312
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,800
to to fall in the Roy as well.
And then Roy and I did did a

313
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,960
bunch of projects together with
Roy designing and me on occasion

314
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,720
Co designing, but mostly
directing.

315
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,040
And guy you talk about, I mean,
I'll try to add a lot of quotes

316
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,560
on this because I'm a big man.
I love your quotes, quotes.

317
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,880
I love your quotes.
But but well, they're not my

318
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:13,920
quotes.
They're quotes I steal.

319
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,320
But but I knew instead if I'd
seen further, it is because I'm

320
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,120
standing on the shoulders of
giants and and and Roy has been

321
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,000
one of those giants for me.
You know, I mean, he kind of

322
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,000
took me under his wing and I
learned so much about lighting

323
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,480
live music and about the way I
like and the creative process in

324
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,480
dealing with artists.
And frankly, some of the other

325
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,120
stuff we're going to talk about
today about just getting on with

326
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,040
people from Roy.
You know, I don't have you had

327
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,400
Roy on?
No, I've tried.

328
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,320
We should try.
We should try and get Roy on.

329
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,760
Roy, Roy Roy, as you know, is
very is a is a is a very private

330
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,920
and shy man.
But but he's, he's a brilliant

331
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,000
human being.
Yeah, I, I love Roy, but, you

332
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,080
know, I've asked him.
He said yes.

333
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,000
But then every time I try to pin
him to it, you know, he's like

334
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,000
forgets my name and number.
And every year at the upstaging

335
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,720
party, I go, Roy, is it time?
And he goes, yes, yes, Marcel,

336
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,720
we're going to do it very soon,
you know, And it's, like, never

337
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,400
happened.
And, and one day it will be time

338
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,560
and yeah.
Yeah.

339
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,480
And it would be great to to hear
to hear what Roy has has to say.

340
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,840
Yeah, yeah.
So so that's that's kind of the

341
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,840
short version.
Then from there working with Roy

342
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:27,560
for, you know, for the Cure, for
Bryan Adams, for the first Janet

343
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,680
Jackson tour and in excess.
So kind of fell into these kind

344
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,360
of Uber acts working with Roy
and and sort of tender age,

345
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:41,560
learning my craft that way.
Yeah, what a cool start of a

346
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,480
unbelievable career.
And then, you know, there was

347
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,040
the incredible trip, I think in
89 or 91 or something, when you

348
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,720
met both of your life partners.
Yeah.

349
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,920
That was actually, but that was
actually after the second,

350
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,840
second Smiths tour.
So that was 86 and I had some

351
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,080
time left on my work permit, so.
John Huddleston, another big

352
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,880
influence in my life who I know,
you know, had very well said,

353
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,400
look, you got some time left on
your work permit.

354
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,200
Do you want to stay over here
and do a corporate show?

355
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,880
And I'm like, what's a corporate
show?

356
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,000
He's like, I still remember him
saying this.

357
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,960
He says it's just like a
concert, only there are cars

358
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,240
instead of musicians.
I was like, how hard can this

359
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,920
be?
And and a little did I know

360
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,440
Famous last words.
Yeah, really.

361
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,280
No kidding.
And at the time, my Co founding

362
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,280
partner of light switch, Norm
Schwab was working at FM

363
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,480
productions and hub said, you
know, this is designer Norm and,

364
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,120
and I just need somebody to help
coordinate, help liaise with

365
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,760
him, sort of be our interface
from a design standpoint.

366
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,520
We're going to put you on a
plane and, and send you out to

367
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,040
San Francisco and you can, you
can hang out with Norm and

368
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,480
figure out what his design is
and work with us on on this

369
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,920
project.
So I went out there and, and,

370
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,200
and met Norm, albeit briefly.
Norm had a scheduling conflict

371
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,320
and had to go to town and kind
of left me in his house on Mount

372
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,920
Tamil Pia's beautiful house.
And he was roommates at the time

373
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,120
with Paul Ephron, who had who
had just got back from from Pink

374
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:13,160
Floyd.
I can't remember which Pink

375
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,360
Floyd tour it was, but Paul had
just got back and was basically

376
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:17,960
in the in in his room and never
left.

377
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,520
And I'd hear this disembodied
voice periodically going, hey,

378
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,920
you're going out.
Would you bring me back

379
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,400
something to eat?
You know, Paul in sort of most

380
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:30,880
tour sort of reconnecting with
the, with the real world.

381
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:36,080
Anyway, so, and, and at the same
time I met my wife, I met my

382
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,600
wife Kathy through the same
trip.

383
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,120
So it was a very influential
trip.

384
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,440
You know, it was, it was around
this, around this time of year.

385
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:47,960
It was, it was Thanksgiving.
And at the time I was sleeping

386
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,160
on the couch of a guy whose
sister was dating one of my

387
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,000
wife's brothers when I made our
brother-in-law.

388
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,160
It was a big family
Thanksgiving, and Mark Selig

389
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,760
said to me, he's like, we've got
this family Thanksgiving.

390
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,600
You have to come with you.
I'm like, Mark, I'm an English

391
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,960
vegetarian.
Thanksgiving has no significance

392
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,720
and no appeal to me.
I'm just going to sit here and

393
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,080
watch.
Are you still vegetarian?

394
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:07,680
I didn't know.
That I'm a pescetarian.

395
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,080
As my dad said, there's a word
for a vegetarian that will eat

396
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,440
fish.
Yeah, I.

397
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,160
Did that for a while, yeah.
Yeah, I did that for a while,

398
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,200
yeah.
So, so Mark dragged me along and

399
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,080
I met my wife and sort of the
rest of its history.

400
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,760
But, you know, it's again, part
of this web connection, which

401
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,840
which is something I, I, I love
about our industry, you know,

402
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,760
and, and I think it's something
that's aspirational for other

403
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,080
people too.
I mean, we, we, we Fast forward,

404
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:38,400
you know, the, the 32 years ago,
again, relative, relative around

405
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,040
this kind of time, Haley was
born.

406
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,560
I went back out on the road with
Van Halen.

407
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,760
Loved the band, hated the
situation, missing Haley growing

408
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:47,240
up.
And.

409
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,640
And Norm for a long time had
been, had been saying to me, you

410
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,200
know, one day you're going to
get sick of touring.

411
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,400
One day you're going to get sick
of touring.

412
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,680
And we should start a design
company.

413
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,920
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's just fine.

414
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,480
You know, Kathy had a travel
business at the time back when

415
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,840
airline airlines gave a damn
about travel agents.

416
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,360
She could fly for free.
We we were living living the

417
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,800
good life.
But I got to tell you and I, I

418
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,400
don't know him.
Some of my friends who who

419
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,480
toured all the way through their
kids growing up, I, I my hat's

420
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,320
off to them, especially people
like people like they're like

421
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,880
Matt Mosier is a great example.
Matt's a dear friend of mine

422
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,720
and, and he's got a great family
and, and rate 3 super wicked

423
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,000
smart boys and he's really
connected to them.

424
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,000
It's, it's, it's hard work.
So that, that's, that's how

425
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,560
light switch started was really
with, with that essence of, of,

426
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,840
of just wanting to, to have a
different quality of life.

427
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,640
And I was just chatting the
other day with, with somebody

428
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,640
else from the business and, and
she's facing the same kind of

429
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,600
existential questioning about
what do I do?

430
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,760
How do I go forward?
It feels like every time I come

431
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,680
home, you know, it's kind of
this Arron wasteland of no

432
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,680
friends and not a great.
Was it a young?

433
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,320
Lady, it was a young lady.
Yeah, I know who you're talking

434
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,520
about.
Yeah.

435
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,440
And, and, and I think it's great
when we can lean into each other

436
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,160
for that kind of stuff as well
and just just say, hey, you

437
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,360
know, I'm at a place where this
kind of sucks.

438
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,560
Can can you help?
And, and, and I know one of the

439
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,920
things that we want to talk
about as well is how we

440
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,560
communicate with each other as,
as human beings.

441
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,520
Yeah, but I got to tell you,
there's, there's a lot to

442
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,600
dislike about social media
myself.

443
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,640
But when somebody throws up
their hand and says, I'm having

444
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,360
a really good day and you just
see people pile on and, and I've

445
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,240
done it myself.
And, and I think there's a lot

446
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,240
that we need to question about
the role of social media in our

447
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,560
world and in our lives.
But when you can do that and go

448
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,440
I'm I'm ever I'm ever the shit
day, I could just I could just

449
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,040
use feeling the love.
Well.

450
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,640
Knowing you, knowing you, that's
exactly what happened.

451
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,840
Because I know that said young
woman put a post out and you

452
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,240
probably picked up the phone and
called her instantly I'm

453
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,120
guessing.
I didn't, I didn't call her, but

454
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,000
I sent her a message.
You know, I mean, sometimes, you

455
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,760
know, sometimes it's almost
worse.

456
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,280
But hey, I'm here for you.
I've been there.

457
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,840
I know exactly how you're
feeling.

458
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,360
Been there, done that.
Yeah.

459
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,760
And I, and I think we, we can
all sometimes feel a little like

460
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,960
the situation we're in is
completely unique to us.

461
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,000
And everybody's situation is
indeed completely unique.

462
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,960
But there's always somebody else
who's been there, done that.

463
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,360
You know, I, I everything from
the loss of a parent to, God

464
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:27,240
forbid, the, you know, the, the,
the nightmare of the loss of a

465
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,480
child to divorce to the, to, to
the joys of life.

466
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,560
Oh, my God, I've just found out
I'm going to be a father or a

467
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,560
mother.
What the hell am I doing?

468
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,040
Yeah, you know, there's always
something that's been there

469
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,960
before and, and to lean into
each other.

470
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,960
But but social media is one of
those things where I think it's

471
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,400
such a double edged sword
because it can be used for so

472
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,640
much good and it could be used
for so much bad.

473
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,640
It's like AI, it's like guns.
It's like a lot of things, you

474
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,240
know, because, but social media,
I don't know, for some reason,

475
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,440
we always find a way to, to
sync, you know, to, to, to sink

476
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,160
to the bottom instead of rising
to the top, you know?

477
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,880
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm, I'm
going to sound like the old

478
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,120
white guy that I am, but I think
one of the things that that I

479
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,680
miss Marcel and, and one of the
things that was very prevalent

480
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,960
in the state and was, was
obviously I moved here because I

481
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,040
met my soul mate and, you know,
fell in love.

482
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,920
And Kevin, I've been married 38
years, I think.

483
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,080
So I think it's going to stay.
She's crazy, absolutely fun

484
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,600
because that woman got talk
about marrying up, I tell you,

485
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,760
but there but there is a there
was a sense.

486
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,400
One of the things that for me
was a really strong contrast

487
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:55,800
between the UK in the 80s and
the US of the 80s is what I felt

488
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:03,280
from my experience was the UK in
the 80s was a lot of taking

489
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,600
people at their worst and
thinking the worst of people.

490
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,320
And you know, Marcy as as, as a,
as a song, we hate it when our

491
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,800
friends are successful.
And there was such a prevalence

492
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,720
of that feeling and, and coming
to the States in the in the late

493
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,160
80s, early 90s was such a breath
of fresh air.

494
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,040
And, and I don't know if you
felt the same way.

495
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,120
Everybody was up.
Everybody was thinking the best

496
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:28,400
of people.
Everyone was like, you know,

497
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,680
that's great, man.
I can't doing that.

498
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,320
That's awesome.
Let's go for it.

499
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:38,280
And I think social media is at
its best when we are thinking

500
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,000
the best of people and at its
worst when we are thinking the,

501
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,760
the worst of people.
You know, my, my, my dad, who is

502
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:50,040
hands down the smartest person
I've ever met, says he's talking

503
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,880
about texts and emails, but
mostly, but I think this applies

504
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,360
to social media.
He said a text or an e-mail is

505
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,440
the perfect way to misinterpret
what the other person never

506
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,680
meant.
Which which I think is, is a

507
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,760
really great way to think about
when we read stuff, because

508
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,680
we're humans, we tend to bring
the wrapper of what is in our

509
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,560
life condition at the time when
we're reading it to that person.

510
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,920
And, and I, like everybody, have
had incidents and do all the

511
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,240
time.
It's one of the things that you

512
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,440
face too, being a business owner
of having disagreements and and

513
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,560
disconnects with somebody.
And I, and I say a lot of the

514
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,200
time to people, I've said this a
bunch to, to somebody who works

515
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,000
with me, who works with me.
I said this this to her this

516
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,760
week is do you hear me saying
what you think I said?

517
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,840
Does that sound like something I
would have said or something I

518
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,840
would have meant?
And I know you're having a shit

519
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,440
time at the moment because she
is.

520
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,720
And I know your plate is full of
the moment because it is.

521
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:06,560
But I think we can.
We can all benefit me

522
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,600
especially, but all of us from
just kind of trying to slow down

523
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,760
a little bit and think the best
of what somebody else is saying,

524
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,360
not the worst and go, OK, am I
reading this, listening to this,

525
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,640
hearing this through my
particular lens of what I'm

526
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,240
saying and what I'm thinking and
where I am today?

527
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,000
And am I doing this person who
who I don't either don't know or

528
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,400
the other extreme love?
Am I doing them a disservice by

529
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,760
thinking about this?
You know, I, I said this before

530
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,000
we started.
There's a great quote.

531
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,280
I'm a man of many quotes, as you
know, there's a there's a quote

532
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,920
by Joseph Jobert who says a part
of kindness consists in loving

533
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,320
people more than they might
deserve.

534
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,880
And I think if we all start to
give each other a little more

535
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,480
snack and love each other a
little more than I deserve, and

536
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,480
I think everybody deserves to be
loved pretty much

537
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800
unconditionally within reason,
which I think it's going to be a

538
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,480
better place.
Yeah.

539
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,680
I mean, you said a lot there.
So, you know, one of the things

540
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:15,040
that I find is, you know, the
way that words are used these

541
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,760
days, like where you just said
that you had a conversation with

542
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,120
a, with AI believe it was a
female employee.

543
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,840
And you, you said, do you really
think that this is what I meant

544
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,320
to say to you or this is how it
was intended to come across?

545
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,440
Or, you know, do you think that
that's something I would feel

546
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,920
based on who I am as a human?
And that's something that I

547
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,760
think people should ask more
often, because a lot of times

548
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,280
what I find is there's this spin
that happens.

549
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,480
And certainly we see it
concerning politics and

550
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,760
everything else on on all sides
of all of those conversations,

551
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,000
religion, politics, any of the
the hot topics, right?

552
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,840
We see those types of things
where it's like somebody could

553
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,760
say, oh, the sky is blue today.
You know, you're racist against

554
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,680
red skies or whatever it is, you
know, I mean, it's it's just we

555
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,800
find a way to spin everything
into this negative thing because

556
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,880
that serves us perhaps.
I don't know.

557
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:17,120
And it's one of the most
horrible things about social

558
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,840
media that I find is, is I read
things and I go, how did they

559
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,960
just turn this into this way
over here?

560
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,200
How did they just take that and
turn it way over here?

561
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,040
I don't understand.
I don't get it at all and I just

562
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,840
have to turn the page, you know
and.

563
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,080
Yeah.
And that's that's big.

564
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,680
That's big you turn in the page,
Marcel, because I think what

565
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:49,200
happens in a lot of those
situations is the one factor I

566
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,720
think drives that more than
anything else is judgement.

567
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:58,840
And, and, and I think there's,
there's an over abundance of of

568
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,120
judgement.
You know, I, I, I read with,

569
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,560
with despair some of the, the
social media posts that, that

570
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,760
are within our industry and talk
about an industry that eats

571
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,600
their young, you know, I mean,
you know, you get all these

572
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,040
young passionate kids that are
just trying to get started in

573
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,160
the industry and, and looking to
the rest of us to go, Hey, you

574
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,760
know, let me reach down.
Let me reach down with your hand

575
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,960
and help you up a little bit.
And, and I am a huge proponent

576
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,040
of the notion that the only
stupid questions are the ones

577
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,160
that you don't ask.
Yeah, but but, but to vilify

578
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,880
these people.
And, and there are some people

579
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,000
on there who, who are really
lovely and kind and funny and

580
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,520
engaging.
But I, I, there are some people

581
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,200
that are just, I hope it makes
your life condition, being a

582
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,680
meaner better being a mean
asshole to this person that's

583
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,240
just asking a question and
looking for some help.

584
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,400
I hope that serves you.
But here's what I bet.

585
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,320
I bet it doesn't, Marcel.
I bet it doesn't make your day

586
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,360
one bit better.
I certainly hope it doesn't make

587
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,280
you feel a better human being,
you know, being a being a jerk

588
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,720
to somebody.
Just don't, like you said, don't

589
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,800
say anything.
If you like that, if you feel

590
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,280
that person it's foolish for
asking that question, the best

591
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,760
policy is to kindly horse
correct them, but to to just

592
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,880
flame those people.
I, I, I don't know what.

593
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,720
Well, there's.
So many bullies, I mean, in our

594
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,520
industry too, there's so many
bullies who, who just can't wait

595
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,760
to show how smart they are and
jump on this student who's

596
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,600
asking.
I, I assume that's what you're

597
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,680
talking about.
Like these these kids who come

598
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,920
in and say, should I use, you
know, a Lee whatever or a

599
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,640
Roscoe, whatever, or should I
use this light or this light for

600
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,640
this application?
You know, are you some kind of

601
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,760
idiot?
And they just get jumped on.

602
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,720
And I mean, there's been a few
times where I've jumped in and

603
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,080
rescued them saying, folks, can
you just answer this poor kids

604
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,640
question, Like answer his
question.

605
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,120
You know, you were an idiot one
day too.

606
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,480
You didn't know everything one
day too, like everyone starts

607
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,280
here, you know, nobody starts
here.

608
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,000
Everyone starts here and sort of
ask silly questions to get their

609
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,600
way up to here.
And unfortunately our industry

610
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,080
has always been very giving to
those people and very willing to

611
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,920
share.
That's such a common thread in

612
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,880
our, our industry is, you know,
I love helping people.

613
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,400
I love speaking for people.
Like people go back to colleges

614
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,760
and speak at those colleges or
get involved in what I, you

615
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,560
know, I'm doing this thing I
think you know of called Dining

616
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,320
with Dinosaurs and.
Which if I was going to be in

617
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,480
the country, I would, I would be
there to either either listen to

618
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,840
the dinosaurs or be it'll be one
of them.

619
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,159
Yeah, no.
I tried roping you in.

620
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,239
You said I'm not going to be at
LDI.

621
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,440
Yeah, Yeah.
But, you know, I love this.

622
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,600
Like, one thing great about
being old is you've bumped your

623
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,080
head a lot in however many
years, right?

624
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,320
And I know for myself, I've made
every mistake possible.

625
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,800
So when young business owners or
founders call me up and say, how

626
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,520
would you do this?
What do you think about this?

627
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,280
Like, I'm mentoring a guy
starting a marketplace for

628
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,680
Peloton bikes right now.
This guy's a freaking genius.

629
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:08,200
Like, you know, Wharton Business
School went to McKinsey and

630
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,520
company as an analyst, you know,
Wall Street guy and he started a

631
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,760
marketplace.
And since I'm like sort of the

632
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:20,040
OG of marketplace, I get these
calls all the time and I am so

633
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,040
willing to give my time and it
like you, but my girlfriend asks

634
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,080
me all the time.
She's like, you know, you don't

635
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,400
get paid for these calls, do
you?

636
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,720
And I'm like, no, never.
And I don't want to get paid for

637
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:30,520
them.
You know this.

638
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,840
Is just this guy reselling
pelotons?

639
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,800
It is the most brilliant new
business model I've ever seen.

640
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,040
So this guy, being an analyst
and a really super smart guy,

641
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,240
he's in New York City in an
apartment and he he loves

642
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,720
biking, but it's cold outside
and he doesn't want to ride his

643
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:49,360
bike.
So he says, I'm going to buy a

644
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,360
Peloton.
And he goes looking for used

645
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,000
ones.
And he finds that it's an

646
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,680
extremely broken market.
There's no used way of buying

647
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,800
used Pelotons, except you can
find one or two here on eBay or

648
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,400
Craigslist.
Store whatever.

649
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,120
Just experience a bad buying
experience.

650
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,920
And so he starts doing research
and he finds out that Peloton

651
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:19,200
has sold 3.5 million bikes and
there's five models in those 3.5

652
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,400
millions.
A total of 5 models of those 3.5

653
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,600
million.
He goes and does research and

654
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,120
finds out that 2 million of them
are connected to Peloton, which

655
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,560
tells him there's 1.5 million
bikes not being used right now,

656
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,240
so they are technically for
sale.

657
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:45,800
And so he now puts together sort
of a, a, what do you call it?

658
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,640
He basically puts together a
business plan based on there

659
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,200
being 1.5 million bikes for sale
and he is killing it right now.

660
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,640
He's absolutely crushing it.
Crushing it.

661
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,560
He's within, I think he opened
in May, he started in May.

662
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,560
He's now got delivery drivers
and Peloton bikes available in

663
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,360
pretty much every city in the
United States.

664
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,600
And I'll tell you the company
his, his site is

665
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:16,240
trademystuff.com and he's in
the, he's in the mode right now

666
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,120
of building it into a proper
marketplace.

667
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,040
He's using the same developers I
use, He's using a lot of the

668
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,360
same people I use.
I'm mentoring him, helping him

669
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,600
through the process.
But in doing so, this kids

670
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,480
teaching me lots back.
And this is what I find in our

671
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,200
industry too.
Like if you 100%, if you went

672
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,080
out and started talking to 20
somethings today and they just

673
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,280
came out of school or however
they got their training,

674
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,960
whatever it is, they would start
going, well, why do you do it?

675
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,200
Do it like that and you would
explain it and they go, but

676
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,680
couldn't you do it like this
instead?

677
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,200
And you'd go.
Oh, it's my favorite thing about

678
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,800
new people coming into the into
the company.

679
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,560
It's amazing.
Keep them questioning what we do

680
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,200
or just asking you go, why do
you do that?

681
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,800
Well, that's I don't, I don't
even really know why we do that

682
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,440
that way, but we always have.
Is there, is there a better way?

683
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,840
Is there a better way to do it?
You know, and, and, and I have,

684
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,520
I frequently say I'm not, I
don't, I don't believe because

685
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,800
I'm in the lighting design
business or the visual design

686
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,880
business.
That happens to be what we do.

687
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,040
What I am is I'm in the people
development business.

688
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,520
That's true because light switch
it is only, I mean the physical

689
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,360
assets of the company.
We've got a number of buildings,

690
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,320
some of which we own, some of
which we lease or rent and a

691
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,880
bunch of computers.
Owen 10s of thousands of dollars

692
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,120
in software licenses, which is a
whole different topic.

693
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,640
The physical assets, somebody
could go out and buy all that

694
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,600
tomorrow.
What we are all about is the

695
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:46,080
people that we have the, the,
the, the experience, the

696
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,040
thoughtfulness, the, the, the
creativity, the genius, all of

697
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,480
that stuff and all of that needs
to be, needs to be nurtured.

698
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,120
And, and it's the same way with
other people in the business,

699
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,720
especially people that are
getting started.

700
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,880
I believe that as an industry, a
seasoned industry professional,

701
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,120
I should only have two responses
when somebody posts one of their

702
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,560
shows on Facebook or or any
social media.

703
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,600
I should even say nothing or I
should say it looks amazing.

704
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,480
Yeah.
And, and, and you know me well

705
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,760
enough to know that 99.99% of
the time I say the second, if

706
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,880
somebody young is brave enough
to go, I made this thing.

707
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,640
Your response should be.
That's awesome.

708
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,240
You made a thing.
Look at that.

709
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,080
That's incredible.
I love that.

710
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,040
And, and always something to and
see it's, you know, when we were

711
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,280
talking before about, about this
notion of, of, of he, I'm, I'm

712
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,720
like you, there's a lot of
things I won't go to, but I'll

713
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,640
go and see almost any kind of
live performance.

714
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,480
Yeah, Because I can always learn
something, Marcel, and always

715
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,240
see what somebody else is doing.
And especially somebody that's

716
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,960
earlier in the arc of their
career and go, Oh my gosh,

717
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,520
that's, that's really great.
And frankly, a lot of the time

718
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,880
the smaller the show, the
better.

719
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,320
Yeah, some shows I've seen young
people do stuff with with a

720
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,000
dozen like I mean any fool
should be able present company

721
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,120
very much included should be
able to make a show look great

722
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680
with 1000 moving lights.
You could almost put them on

723
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,680
self test and it should look
great just because you're like

724
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,000
that's.
Where we're at right now.

725
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,280
That's a lot of stuff, you know,
that I mean, I mean, back to the

726
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,120
thing that Mark did, you know,
with with with Gilmore, that

727
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,200
wasn't a lot of lights by modern
standard, not at all.

728
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,800
But it was incredibly,
incredibly thoughtful.

729
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,920
And and the other thing, I, I, I
and and I try to espouse this

730
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,560
and live this in the company
myself.

731
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,640
You got to value the try.
You just have to value the try

732
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:40,120
and go.
All right.

733
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,640
Well, you yeah, that would, that
would, that wasn't, that wasn't

734
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,800
great.
Maybe you could have tried

735
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,400
something different, but you
tried.

736
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,160
And that's the most, the most
important thing.

737
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,080
You know, I nobody, none of us
really know what the hell we're

738
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,840
doing.
I don't know what I'm doing.

739
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,040
I know you feel the same way,
but there are some people that

740
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,360
just do it anyway.
Well, here's the thing, you

741
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,560
know, I'll have to use a racing
analogy, of course.

742
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:07,560
So in when Jeremy was first
starting racing in karts, he was

743
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,200
very tentative on his breaking.
You know, like he he'd break way

744
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,640
too early.
He wasn't carrying as much speed

745
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,440
into the corners as I and his
coach believed he should be.

746
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,160
And So what I started the track
that he was learning on in Palm

747
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,680
Beach, instead of having like,
concrete in the corners and

748
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,040
walls in the corners, they had
these airbags in the corners,

749
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,000
basically like big fluffy
pillows.

750
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,880
So if you went off the track,
you'd spin through some mud

751
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,040
maybe and end up in a big fluffy
pillow.

752
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,320
Yeah.
And so I started paying him 5

753
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,720
bucks for every time he hit
these big fluffy pillows.

754
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,080
He went off track and hit these
big fluffy.

755
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,200
Pillows.
That's a great idea.

756
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,840
And you know what happened?
I mean, he was dropping so much

757
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,040
time off his lap times
instantly.

758
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,040
It was just like it was instant.
It was immediate and instant and

759
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,880
forever.
And he became one of the latest

760
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,600
Breakers in all of karting for
his entire karting career

761
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,360
because of that.
That was the whole foundation.

762
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,920
And then I read some stuff about
Lewis Hamilton's father, and he

763
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,680
basically did the same thing.
He would stand in corners and

764
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,840
go.
Lewis, I've paid attention.

765
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,560
Everyone is breaking exactly
right here.

766
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,720
And I've done some calculations
on an Excel spreadsheet and if

767
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:27,240
you could break here instead, I
think you're going to knock 3/10

768
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:31,720
a lap off off your lap times.
And lo and behold, he didn't.

769
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:33,440
He became a very late breaker as
well.

770
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,360
So it's the same result, just a
different method of getting

771
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,320
there.
But yeah, pretty.

772
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:40,480
Cool.
And, and, and I think that's a

773
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,320
great, that's a great way to
learn, You know, another

774
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,840
Featherstone favorite quote,
Nelson Mandela once said, I, I

775
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,920
don't lose.
I either win or I learn.

776
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,320
I love that one too.
And I think that's such a great

777
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,520
way to think about all of that,
you know, and, and I think if we

778
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:05,080
could find ways to help people
capture the notion that they

779
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,560
either win or they learn rather
than they either win or they get

780
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,320
vilified and crucified on social
media and made to feel foolish

781
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,640
and stupid, You know, I mean, I,
I don't think you can find many

782
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,880
people in our industry who hate
what they do.

783
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,080
I, I, I think our industry is
pretty good at processing those

784
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,520
people out.
So if we've been fortunate

785
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,680
enough to find a job that we
love, that we, that we're paid,

786
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:30,880
paid when you compare it to 1st
responders or cops or

787
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,640
firefighters or especially
teachers, a fairly ridiculous

788
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,800
amount of money.
Yeah, why?

789
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,960
Why would we want to potentially
be that person that turns

790
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,280
somebody else off?
I hate it.

791
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,120
What a what a what a horrible
way to be.

792
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:44,400
I don't like it.
You know what?

793
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,360
Screw them out.
So back to this Peloton guy.

794
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,720
So I had my first call with him,
which was scheduled for 1/2

795
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,440
hour.
I think we were on for an hour

796
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,000
and a half and he thought he was
learning from me.

797
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,040
And literally I couldn't get to
sleep that night because of what

798
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,520
he was telling me about his
delivery method.

799
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,640
And so, you know, he basically
networked and put together like

800
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,720
an Uber driver network
throughout the country, in every

801
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:11,560
city.
He had people sign on as

802
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,000
delivery drivers.
And then they all had to go

803
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,240
through this YouTube video
series of how to take a part of

804
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:21,360
Peloton, how to put it back
together, how to package it into

805
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,880
their vehicle so that it didn't
get broken or damaged, and then

806
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,360
how to connect it to the Peloton
system.

807
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,000
And so he, he trained all these
drivers and then he sold

808
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,360
delivery as part of selling or
he sells delivery as part of

809
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,600
selling the bike.
And it's through this network of

810
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,040
drivers.
And just the way that he

811
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,120
aggregates the supply side of
this whole thing is

812
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,720
unbelievable.
So I couldn't sleep that night.

813
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:49,160
I was, I was thinking about it
so much like, you know, I've got

814
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,280
an age-old model that is a
marketplace model that includes

815
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,160
a lot of shipping, global
shipping, much more complicated.

816
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,640
And I just couldn't stop
thinking about what this guy's

817
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,440
doing.
So we got on another call and I

818
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,360
said, I hope you don't mind, but
I'm going to pick your brain a

819
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,640
little bit this time.
And he's like, really like, he

820
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,560
was almost intimidated that I
wanted to ask him some questions

821
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,320
that might help my business.
And he was so happy to share.

822
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,400
And, and we got into one of
those conversations on a totally

823
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,800
different feature on my website.
We got into a conversation of

824
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,560
why do you do it like this?
And I explained it to him and he

825
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,040
says, have you ever seen stock
X?

826
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,640
And I said the shoe site?
And he said yeah.

827
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,360
And I said, yeah, I've spent
lots of time looking at the

828
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:31,640
technology and stuff.
Why?

829
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,800
And he said, well, you see how
they do this one thing?

830
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,080
And I said yeah.
And he goes, what do you think?

831
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:42,400
And I went holy shit.
Like it was just an aha moment

832
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,120
that he just he hit me with this
thing and I just went Oh my God.

833
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,560
And now I haven't slept since
then.

834
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,440
You know, So it like, give
people a chance and they will

835
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,840
shock you.
They will shock you.

836
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,880
I believe in, you know, and I
always put down young people on

837
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:02,320
this show because in some sense,
I think they're missing some of

838
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,800
the things that we have.
Like, for example, you showed up

839
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,520
10 minutes early for this
podcast.

840
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,240
I showed up about 9 1/2 minutes
early for this podcast.

841
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,520
We're both old guys.
We were both trained the same

842
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,400
way, you know, we were both
trained to be early if you're

843
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,760
going to be on time, right?
And a lot of people today don't

844
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,040
have those same sort of ethics,
right?

845
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:26,400
And or, you know, so, you know,
I tend to put down or appear to

846
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,640
put down young people.
But when I'm asking, when I'm

847
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,360
looking for ideas for social
media or when I'm looking for

848
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,680
design ideas on my website, I
always talk to my son.

849
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,480
I always say, what do you think
about this?

850
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,080
Guess why?
Because those are the people

851
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,600
that are going to keep using
this.

852
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,800
You know they're going to be 20
somethings, not 60 somethings,

853
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,920
so I'm not going to develop the
site for me and you.

854
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,440
Right, right.
And, and I think a lot, a lot of

855
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,440
that and, and again, you know,
this is easy for two or, or

856
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,000
white guys still latching to
cliches.

857
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,280
It's it's about expectations.
I don't know about you, Marcel,

858
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,760
but when I was growing up, I was
super clear on what was expected

859
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,720
of me.
I knew exactly what mom and dad

860
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,520
expected of me when I started to
work in the workplace.

861
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,760
I knew the people that I was
working for had expectations.

862
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:15,320
And, and I think part of that
is, is, is a, is a mutual

863
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,160
respect thing is I respect you,
you respect me.

864
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,400
You're going to demonstrate the
way you respect me by doing XYZ.

865
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,440
And I'm going to demonstrate
that I respect you by doing ABC.

866
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,200
In our case, as, as business
owners and employees, a lot of

867
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,120
that is being a decent human
being, treating people fairly,

868
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,760
paying them as well as we
possibly can afford to, sticking

869
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,000
by them over the pandemic.
You know, as, as you did as, as

870
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,480
we tried very hard to do a live
switch as well and honor, honor

871
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,120
that commitment.
And a lot of the time it's just

872
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,160
about communication.
You know, one of the things that

873
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,680
I love is bringing young blood
into, into the company.

874
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,040
And, and a lot of the time it
dawns on me when I'm having

875
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,120
these conversations that for a
lot of these younger people,

876
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:00,080
nobody has ever been really
super clear about what's

877
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,280
expected of them.
And nobody's ever.

878
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,320
So look, I expect you to do a
certain number of things.

879
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,600
I expect you to be on time.
I expect you to pay attention.

880
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,680
I expect you to write stuff
down.

881
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,080
Not because I don't think you
can remember it, because it lets

882
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,640
me know that you're paying
attention and I have to write

883
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:19,960
everything down.
It doesn't happen.

884
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,080
You know, it's a great it's,
it's a great point.

885
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:27,000
And I'll tell you, like, it's a
fine line to crossing into what

886
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,080
people love to call
micromanaging.

887
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,400
But I've gotten into this new
thing.

888
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:32,960
There's AI.
Don't know if you've ever used

889
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,080
Vidyard, do you?
Yeah.

890
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,000
Yeah.
So I, I'm a religious user of

891
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,080
Vidyard.
And what I've started doing is

892
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,840
instead of telling someone,
please take care of these things

893
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,520
every day and then coming back
the next day and going, well,

894
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,320
you didn't really do it
properly.

895
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,000
You need to do this, this, this
and this.

896
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,920
The next day you come back again
and go, OK, you're getting

897
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,400
closer, but you need to do this,
this.

898
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,160
Now what I do is I just send a
video of screen recording of me

899
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,880
doing it and I say this is how I
want it done, you know, period.

900
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,760
And you need to do that everyday
at 2:00.

901
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,600
How's that?
Pretty simple, right?

902
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,720
And I've been accused of that
being micromanaging.

903
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,400
I don't care.
It's just a shorter distance

904
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,400
from here to there of this is
how I want it done and it is my

905
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,440
company still.
So this is how we're going to do

906
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,320
it.
And if you have better ideas,

907
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,720
let's talk about it.
You know, I definitely want to

908
00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:24,760
talk about it, but for now,
that's the idea that we've got.

909
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,480
Let's just do it that way, you
know, and.

910
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,440
I would personally suggest
that's super impairing.

911
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,320
I I think that's empowerment.
I mean, one of the, one of the

912
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:41,160
things that that I hear
frequently from people is it's

913
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,240
really, it's super useful to
know how you want things done.

914
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,200
It's super useful to know how
you want things done before I do

915
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,720
them.
It's super annoying when you say

916
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,480
just do this and don't give me
enough information and then you

917
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,160
tell me that you wanted me to do
it a different way.

918
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,200
Yeah.
Why?

919
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,800
And, and, and for you, like me
and for like so many people,

920
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,640
there are, there are many, many
things that I can create more

921
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,120
of.
The one thing I can't create

922
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,120
more of is time.
So I think what's super

923
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,400
important to me is to try and
think about the things that I

924
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:17,160
value most family time, clarity,
communication, being honest and

925
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:22,120
direct and reflect that on the
people that I work with, because

926
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,800
those are my, those are my
pillars.

927
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,320
I, I believe for me, it's all
with family first.

928
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,040
You know, if somebody's like,
I've got a family thing, I'm

929
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,080
like, I don't need to hear any
more.

930
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,440
Go, go now, tell me when it's
done.

931
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,120
How can we help?
How can we support, you know, my

932
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,200
usual default answer.
Do you need some time?

933
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,480
Do you need some money?
Because those are things that

934
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,800
I'm blessed with, with the
ability to empower people with.

935
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:45,800
But I think that's a real key to
communication is what's

936
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,720
important to me.
How can I share that with other

937
00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:51,720
people?
But and I and I know this is a

938
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:56,640
big thing for you, Marcel,
because I know to you knowledge

939
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,480
is I think it's one of the
reasons why you do this podcast.

940
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,520
You and I've never really talked
about this, even though I think

941
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,240
it's completely effing
brilliant.

942
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:06,840
You do this podcast.
And certainly, and I've shared

943
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,880
this with you before, you were
one of the few bright lights for

944
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,640
me over the pandemic.
Those those group chats that

945
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,960
that we did, it really helped
get me through.

946
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:20,600
But I, I, I view you as kind of
like this person who's just

947
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,080
yeah.
And I've always thought of you

948
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,400
like this holy, this just kind
of like collecting all of these

949
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:31,280
little pieces of gold from the,
from around the, the, the, the

950
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,560
world that you live in and, and
creating amazing thing.

951
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,640
Gear Source is, you know this.
I know you're a humble, modest

952
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,880
fan.
Gear Source is freaking genius.

953
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,400
It transformed the way our
industry went from warehouses

954
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,400
for shit that nobody knew what
to do with the being able to

955
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,760
empower other people along their
way.

956
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,880
Somebody starting a lighting
rental company overseas

957
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,600
somewhere and can't access, let
alone a Ford new equipment.

958
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,520
The way that you empower these
people to build their businesses

959
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,000
is huge.
You have a thirst for knowledge,

960
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:06,080
so I would suggest that when you
share that knowledge with other

961
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,920
people, you're not micromanaging
them, you're empowering them.

962
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,760
You're giving them something
that is valuable to you in a

963
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,160
currency that that that feel is
useful to them.

964
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,480
There's there's no better gift
you can give.

965
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,600
Something well, and the and the
flip side is, is some version of

966
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,600
mayhem because like I've tried
to do this really, really

967
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,120
weirdly diplomatic thing where
it's like, hey, I'm a hands off

968
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,240
manager.
You just do whatever you think

969
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,040
is the best way of doing things.
And in a company like mine, you

970
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,880
basically had, you know, four or
five people on the sales team

971
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:41,040
that we're doing things four or
five completely different ways.

972
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,640
Information was being stored in
different places.

973
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,000
You know, deal points were being
stored in different places.

974
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,480
So if you're on vacation, nobody
knows how to do anything.

975
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,800
And you know, it's like I always
say, you know, one of my

976
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,080
favorite sayings since you love
quotes is, is you don't rise to

977
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,080
your goals, you fall to your
systems.

978
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,000
Oh, that's.
That's really good.

979
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:04,720
It's.
So frigging true.

980
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,520
And I've proven it 1000 times on
the bad side of it and on the

981
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,280
good side of it, you know, if
you have really strong systems,

982
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,240
your goals just become, you
know, much more reachable and,

983
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:20,960
and it, it's more of a reality
than just setting this goal and

984
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,600
not having processes in place to
to hit that goal.

985
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,560
So.
Well, My, my, my life coach

986
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,960
says, says to me, a dream
without a plan is just a

987
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,080
fantasy.
Yeah.

988
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,920
And, and so that notion of that
executional piece and, and I

989
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,560
don't know about you, but for
me, for me as a, as a creative,

990
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,200
I feel like I do my best work.
I feel like light switch does

991
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,800
our best work when we really
clearly understand what our

992
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,360
client wants.
And we have some clients myself

993
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:55,440
who are super in the details of
it, who are really like with us

994
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,240
through the whole arc of the
creative process.

995
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,880
And it was very specific about
what they want and what they

996
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,720
need and the way it wants to be.
I love those clients.

997
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,880
Yeah, we have other clients who
are completely empowering, who

998
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,720
are, who are like just, I want
to show up at the end and I want

999
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:12,760
to be amazed.
I love the way you guys work.

1000
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,640
I love what you do.
I completely trust you.

1001
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,800
I empower you to go off and be
my visual design ambassadors and

1002
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,800
agents.
I love those clients too.

1003
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,080
What is really hard for me is
when we have a client that I'm

1004
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,000
not sure what they expect and
they vacillate between.

1005
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,160
I know, believe me in there and
then.

1006
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,640
No, do whatever you think.
Oh that, but that's terrible.

1007
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,640
It's like, but we, but we did
what we think.

1008
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,200
So I think as a business owner
or, or anybody that manages,

1009
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,720
because I don't know if
anybody's listening to these two

1010
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:45,280
are white guys talking anymore
on the but at this stage,

1011
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,040
everybody is a manager.
I, I say this all the time.

1012
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,560
You're a manager whether you
want to be or not.

1013
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,840
You're a brand whether you want
to be or not.

1014
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,880
Hell yes.
And it doesn't matter whether

1015
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,520
you're the lowest person on a
crew just getting started.

1016
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,240
You're, you're, you're, you're
an ambassador for your own

1017
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:05,160
brand.
And when those stage hands come

1018
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,760
in at 8:00 in the morning,
you're a manager.

1019
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:11,240
Doesn't matter whether you're
the crew chief on a show.

1020
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,000
Your brand is the way you react
to people.

1021
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,040
The brand is your brand is the
way you liaise with people and

1022
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,480
you're a manager.
You, you, you can't absolve

1023
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,400
yourself from the process of
management and say, that's

1024
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,160
somebody else's job.
Unless you're a hermit and

1025
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,520
you're working in complete
isolation, you're managing.

1026
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,640
So you need to think really
clearly about the kind of

1027
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,280
manager you want to be and the
kind of brand you want to have.

1028
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,960
I mean, there's, there's nobody
that's better at this than one

1029
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,160
of my partners, Chris Medvitz.
He, he's our, he's kind of our

1030
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,520
honorary chief marketing officer
at light Switch and, and he's

1031
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:48,760
really, really focused on
keeping us aligned with, with,

1032
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,520
with the importance of brand in
the company and, and

1033
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,400
communicating who we are or what
matters.

1034
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,200
Yeah, he's done a great job, you
guys.

1035
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:58,080
Have done a great.
Job.

1036
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,400
I mean, especially the past
couple of years, you guys have

1037
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,120
really, really stepped it up on
brand.

1038
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,400
Well, that's good.
That's almost all of that.

1039
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,600
It's the case.
We just go, OK, you sure?

1040
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,040
That sounds like a great idea.
I wanted to say something about

1041
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,600
that, what you were just saying
about the client who who knows

1042
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,200
exactly what they want and
communicates it, you know,

1043
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,160
almost to a micromanager.
And then on the flip side,

1044
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,840
you've got the guy who just
says, you know, do whatever you

1045
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,680
want.
And the worst one is the one

1046
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,360
that wavers in between those
two.

1047
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:28,320
And I used to have a British
business partner and we don't

1048
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,560
want to talk about him because
it ended badly, but.

1049
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:33,800
Don't watch those Brits, Marcel.
Yes.

1050
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,880
Yes, I I love most Brits.
I used to.

1051
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,240
I used to love that one.
I don't love him anymore, but he

1052
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:42,760
used to say something really
funny because he'd talk to a

1053
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,600
customer and they'd say, you
know, here's what we want, ba

1054
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,400
ba, ba, ba, ba.
And he'd say, OK, do you have a

1055
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:48,960
budget?
And they'd say no.

1056
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:52,400
And he'd say, OK, well, it's
going to be $1,000,000.

1057
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,880
And they'd say, holy fuck.
And he'd say, oh, so you do have

1058
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,680
a budget.
Everybody has a budget,

1059
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,400
everybody owns a budget.
Tell me your damn number, you

1060
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,920
know.
And it's true because, you know,

1061
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:07,240
you either have no budget, which
means, you know, it's just about

1062
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:08,920
the vision, and that's all that
matters.

1063
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,440
Whether it's 500,000 or $10
million, it doesn't matter,

1064
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,040
right?
There's not very many jobs like

1065
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,240
that, as you know.
And and even with those jobs,

1066
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,920
there's still always about.
Yeah, well, I know you're doing

1067
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:25,120
a bunch of Saudi or or some sort
of UAE weddings and stuff.

1068
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,520
In Saudi Arabia.
They fall near that, I'm sure.

1069
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,320
But there's, there's, there's
still a budget and, and, and

1070
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:37,160
Marcel, I, I think you've, you
like, I don't have for

1071
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,520
conversations about price, but
you'll talk all day long about

1072
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,000
value.
And I think that's what we try

1073
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,680
to do too.
And with those situations is not

1074
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,320
like, Oh my God, they've got all
the money in the world.

1075
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,320
Let's RIP them off and see how
much we can get.

1076
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:52,760
But let's make sure that they
feel like they're getting value.

1077
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,760
Obviously a wedding for somebody
of significance in Saudi Arabia

1078
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,200
has a very different budget than
frankly my daughter's wedding

1079
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,640
or, or or a lot of a lot of
other weddings.

1080
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,920
But they all deserve value and
at the end of the day, we want

1081
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,720
our customers to feel that they
that they got value whether

1082
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,240
they're spending $2000 or $20
million.

1083
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,200
And at the end of the day, the
price is the price.

1084
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,800
You and I aren't going to waste
our time sitting there talking

1085
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,480
about the price.
It doesn't matter.

1086
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,160
Whatever it is, it is like, I
can't change it.

1087
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,400
It's not going to, you know,
fall from the sky.

1088
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,000
The price is the price.
It's a it's adding a bunch of

1089
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,000
things together and adding a
little bit of services together.

1090
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,000
And that's the price.
But let's talk about the vision,

1091
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,840
you know, let's talk about what
you want from all of this.

1092
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,920
Let's talk about how it's going
to change your life.

1093
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,760
You know, those are the things
that matter.

1094
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,520
But you know, I want to swing
this back around because we

1095
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,320
started talking about social
media.

1096
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,240
And, you know, when you and I
decided to do this podcast, one

1097
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,800
of the things was we were
obviously at the tail end.

1098
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,000
I think it was just a few days
before the election when when

1099
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,400
you reached out to me and you
said, hey, can we do this thing?

1100
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,120
And I'm like, hell yes, I'd love
to.

1101
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,880
And I wish we could have done it
two weeks earlier because then

1102
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,120
maybe we could have had an
impact on on what was going on,

1103
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,640
not in the election, but in our
industry.

1104
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:17,400
But there was a point during the
election cycle and you know,

1105
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,000
like I've always loved and
thought the world of you.

1106
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,440
I think you're one of the
greatest humans in our.

1107
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,920
Industry like the.
Actual humans.

1108
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:31,080
You're, you're one of the
kindest, gentlest, most giving,

1109
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:37,080
caring people in our industry.
And, and I've always known that

1110
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,320
and I've always appreciated it a
lot.

1111
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:44,920
But you know, there was a there
was a point of time couple of

1112
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:49,520
months ago where, you know, this
thing was getting heated, this

1113
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:55,160
ugly election was getting heated
and I had to start not

1114
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,120
unfriending, but muting some
people because it was just

1115
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,280
getting obnoxious.
It was just getting to a point

1116
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,240
where it's like, I want to see
people's family pictures, job

1117
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:09,400
pictures, shows killer things
that they've just written that

1118
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,440
they were thinking about.
I want to hear if somebody is

1119
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,880
struggling, having some
challenges in life.

1120
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,440
They just had a new baby.
Whatever it is, I want the the

1121
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,680
good news and the bad news, but
I don't want.

1122
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,440
These crazy opinions that that
are hateful and stuff.

1123
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:29,760
And so you were having a good
time for a minute there where,

1124
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,120
where you were.
You've you've got a crowd who

1125
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,600
follow you almost as closely as
I do probably and, and

1126
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,280
appreciate your words very, very
much.

1127
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:44,120
And for a little while, I felt
like, and I hope you accept me

1128
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:48,440
saying this, but I felt like you
were wasting your, your platform

1129
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:55,120
on something that was making 50%
or 40% or whatever.

1130
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,200
I don't know what percent of
your friends vote which

1131
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,440
direction, but let's call it
half of your friends were not

1132
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,080
either in agreement with some of
the things you were saying and

1133
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:08,320
sometimes maybe even offended by
some of it because it said stuff

1134
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,840
like, or it implied stuff like,
you know, if you vote this

1135
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,080
direction, you're smart.
If you vote this direction,

1136
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,960
you're a dummy.
And, and, you know, a masochist

1137
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,840
and A, and a misogynist and all
of these terrible things racist

1138
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,160
and I don't consider myself any
of those things, but you know

1139
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:27,320
this.
You know that you're not any of

1140
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,040
those things.
Yeah, you, you, you know this

1141
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,680
because we've talked about it.
We don't vote the same.

1142
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,840
I couldn't care less.
And by the way, I'm Canadian, so

1143
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:40,040
I'm liberal at my soul.
I'm liberal, but I've been a

1144
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,040
business owner for the last 30
years or 20 something years.

1145
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,320
And so I'm also very
conservative.

1146
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,960
I don't want people grabbing my
money and using it for things

1147
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:51,720
that I don't agree with them
using it on.

1148
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,840
So I tend to vote Republican
even though I disagree with

1149
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,880
probably half of the stuff that
the Republicans fight over or

1150
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:05,280
talk about or do.
And I generally, I'm kind of a

1151
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,080
libertarian, I guess.
And and if you were to put me in

1152
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,480
a corner of politically.
You and I are probably share

1153
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,840
more of that than we can I'm.
Kind of agree.

1154
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,400
On that, we disagree on it.
But so you know, I reached out

1155
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:20,920
to you because there was no
effing way I was going to mute

1156
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,920
your posts until after the
election.

1157
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,320
I just wasn't going to do it
because I, I think too highly of

1158
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,280
you.
But there were a lot of people I

1159
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:33,160
did just mute their posts and
not because I didn't like them,

1160
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,480
but because I didn't like some
of the things they were saying.

1161
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,480
And it just made me feel bad and
it made me feel badly about

1162
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:40,960
them.
And I didn't want to do that.

1163
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,360
I didn't want to sway my
feelings about that person based

1164
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:45,880
on that.
They were just angry about

1165
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,480
something political.
So I reached out to you and I

1166
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,200
just said, you know, hey, John,
you know, I love you to death.

1167
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,600
I think you're such a powerful
and important voice in our

1168
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,680
industry.
And although your words are

1169
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:07,640
uniting part of our industry
very tightly, everyone's fully

1170
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:11,200
behind those words.
There is a part of our industry

1171
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,280
that is feeling differently and
and probably not feeling great

1172
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,600
about it.
And I just wanted to let you

1173
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,480
know, I'm not trying to tell you
what to do.

1174
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,040
I'm not trying to tell you
you're wrong.

1175
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,720
And I would never in a billion
years stop following you because

1176
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:28,040
I love you to death.
But but I think you should at

1177
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:32,040
least consider that.
And I got to say that you know I

1178
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:36,280
love you more now because not
only did you accept what I was

1179
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,400
saying without telling me to go
fuck myself, but you, you

1180
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:46,000
immediately went to your
incredible posts and quotes and

1181
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:50,760
lighting pictures and family
pictures and all of the Super

1182
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:54,120
positive, funny, fun, wonderful
things.

1183
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,760
And I don't know if anyone else
noticed, but I noticed.

1184
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:03,200
And I don't want to waste you on
politics, you know what I mean?

1185
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:04,760
I I.
Don't want to waste you what I

1186
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,920
need you to say.
And and it's and it's

1187
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,360
interesting you bring it up,
Marcel and and it really it

1188
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,760
really hit a nerve.
And there were there were two

1189
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,360
people that said this to me
around the same time there was

1190
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,240
you and somebody else I really
respect and careful very deeply.

1191
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,560
Steve Koski, who's Hans him as
business partner or his manager

1192
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,960
as business partner.
Yeah said said exactly the same

1193
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:31,280
kind of thing.
And and I think I think, you

1194
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,200
know, I'm going to go back to a
quote as is usually the code the

1195
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,920
case.
Mary Pettibone Poole said to

1196
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:40,000
repeat what others have said
certainly requires education,

1197
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,240
but to challenge it requires
real brains.

1198
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:53,600
And I and I think what certainly
in times of turmoil and however

1199
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,480
one feels about the political
spectrum, we are certainly in a

1200
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:00,080
time of turmoil.
It's super easy to post, to just

1201
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,440
repost, to repost, to repost, to
repost.

1202
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:08,640
And frankly, I am and have never
been interested in living in an

1203
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:13,440
echo chamber.
I have lots of friends on

1204
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,440
Facebook who other friends ask
me why I'm friends with them.

1205
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:18,920
Both sides of both sides of the
spectrum.

1206
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,640
And he's guilty.
Yeah.

1207
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,960
So.
So it's because I care what

1208
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,520
people think and I care what
people feel.

1209
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,080
I'm not going to learn anything
from, God forbid there's

1210
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:33,440
somebody who's a carbon copy of
me.

1211
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:35,760
I'm not going to learn anything
from that person because I know

1212
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,040
how they think.
I, I'm, the closer somebody is

1213
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:43,720
to my belief structure, the more
I may be initially drawn to

1214
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,120
them, but ultimately, excuse me,
the less I will learn from them.

1215
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,360
So well said.
I'm interested in learning what

1216
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,960
other people think and what
other people feel clearly.

1217
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,440
And, and I, and I know and
respect the fact that you try to

1218
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,760
keep this podcast apolitical.
So I'm going to dance around

1219
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,280
some of this.
It's more than more than 50% of

1220
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,080
the of the country feel away in
the by the direction of the of

1221
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,200
the country.
I can either choose to say that

1222
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:17,200
50% of the country is dead to
me, then how do we ever go back

1223
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:21,120
from that?
Or I can try to have long

1224
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:26,600
nuance, involve quest
conversations that help me

1225
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,680
understand the way they voted
and help them understand some of

1226
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:34,240
my perspective because I think
the way you described yourself,

1227
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:36,800
Marcel, really resonated with me
about this duality.

1228
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,440
I grew up in the UK.
Obviously I consider myself to

1229
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,720
be a liberal.
I'm also a business owner.

1230
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,720
What I would very much like is
the government to get out of my

1231
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,880
way and let me run my business
in a way that is the way I

1232
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,440
choose, so long as I'm not
harming anybody else.

1233
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:57,280
And, and I think most people who
run businesses feel feel the

1234
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,040
same way.
So there's a duality and

1235
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:03,800
attention there between my
belief that there should always

1236
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:05,640
be a safety net, that people
should be helped.

1237
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,200
The people in their Diaries in
the darkest times should not be

1238
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,480
abandoned.
I know you feel the same way.

1239
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,400
Absolutely.
I know you and I feel the same

1240
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,800
way about things like access to
education, access to medical

1241
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,880
care.
But that's a duality with the

1242
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:25,560
way that I also lean into a lot
of positions that would seem to

1243
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,120
be opposed to my core beliefs,
because I believe that people

1244
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:33,200
should have freedom and liberty
and and and our grandfathers

1245
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:37,040
fought and died for the notion
of us to have a high degree of

1246
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:38,880
self-control and a high degree
of dominion.

1247
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:44,520
And I think what we've seen is
an inching in so slowly that

1248
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,280
it's glacial and we don't really
notice of government control.

1249
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,680
And I think there is a lot about
the way government, the way

1250
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:56,120
government works, that needs
blowing up, a lot about the way

1251
01:07:56,120 --> 01:08:00,760
government works and needs
questioning, a find boggling

1252
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:05,720
spectacular amount of waste in
in government that could be used

1253
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,720
in ways to manifestly improve
human conditions.

1254
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:12,480
So the only way I'm going to
learn about how people

1255
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:14,880
inherently want to do that is by
having conversations.

1256
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,399
Here is a great place to have a
conversation to friends like you

1257
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:22,319
and I sitting down either on a
podcast or around a kitchen

1258
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:25,800
table talking about it.
Here's a really silly place for

1259
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,040
that conversation to happen.
Social media.

1260
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,600
Well, especially where, where
one side of that conversation

1261
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,960
has 40 friends.
Like, you know, I, I mentioned

1262
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,319
this to you a long time ago.
One time I actually tried

1263
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:43,760
responding to one of your, I
think this was the 2020 election

1264
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,880
cycle, maybe even 2016, but it
was another angry election

1265
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,600
cycle.
And I tried responding to one of

1266
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:58,120
your friends with a very, very,
you know, I'm usually really

1267
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,040
common sense, you know, I'm a
common sense person.

1268
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,600
Like there's black and white.
It's pretty common sense, very

1269
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:10,560
simple stuff.
And so this is I, I was replying

1270
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:15,200
with a common sense answer.
And not one person jumps on you.

1271
01:09:15,319 --> 01:09:20,000
Like 40 people jump on you.
It's always a bit of a gang, you

1272
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,520
know, whatever you want to call
it a lynching, it's a bit of a

1273
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,080
lynching.
So, so this is like they, they

1274
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:33,200
called, I think in 2020, they
called Republican voters the

1275
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,520
silent majority or silent
minority or whatever it was.

1276
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,080
But we were the silent ones.
And it's generally true because

1277
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:43,720
I don't post anything on social
media about politics because I'm

1278
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,720
going to get attacked and, and
called all kinds of things and

1279
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,040
then ultimately cancelled.
And, and fortunately or

1280
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,200
unfortunately, I have a business
in our industry and I kind of

1281
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:58,120
still need to collect money from
it at some point, you know, So I

1282
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:02,680
have to be very cautious because
I don't want people attacking me

1283
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,000
because of who I vote for, you
know, for whatever reason.

1284
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:11,760
And you know, I mean, at the end
of the day, I agree with 99.999%

1285
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,720
of everything you normally say
and just said.

1286
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,920
Now there's nuances in all of
that.

1287
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,360
You know, it's like healthcare.
It's like healthcare.

1288
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,320
We both believe that everyone
should have healthcare.

1289
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,280
We both believe that there
should be immigration.

1290
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,640
We're both immigrants.
We both come from countries that

1291
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:35,920
have national social healthcare.
Both countries that we came from

1292
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,880
have a completely distraught
healthcare system right now

1293
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,160
because because of a broken
immigration policy in both

1294
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,480
countries.
So, you know, like, these are

1295
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:52,000
all of the nuances that I think
when you just want to say, oh,

1296
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:54,720
you know, they want to close the
borders and not let anybody else

1297
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:56,480
in and everybody should be an
old white guy.

1298
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:02,240
That's not what I said.
I I love diversity.

1299
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:07,880
I love, you know, having Italian
neighbors and, you know, Spanish

1300
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,240
neighbors and Cuban neighbors
and whatever it is, I don't

1301
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,080
care.
Like, I, I love all people.

1302
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,600
Good, good people on one side,
bad people on the other side.

1303
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:18,720
Those are my only separations,
you know.

1304
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:27,080
Yeah, and I, I agree and I and I
I think it's very sad where base

1305
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:32,040
level sound bite judgments and
friendships and and frankly even

1306
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,760
worse family relationships now
it's it's it's there is some of

1307
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,400
that it's difficult at the
moment.

1308
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:39,440
You know, there are, there are
passionate feelings on, on both

1309
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:42,640
sides, regardless of which side
of the, the, the, the equation

1310
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,480
you, you, that you, that you are
on.

1311
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:51,000
But on a human personal level,
if we aspire to be a better

1312
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,680
place, if we aspire for, you
know, you and I can talk about

1313
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,640
this somewhat in the somewhat
abstract level because because

1314
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,480
you and I both live in the
States for our own personal

1315
01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:03,840
reasons, but we live here
largely because we choose to,

1316
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:06,880
not because we were born here,
whatever reason it was that we

1317
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:11,200
ended up here.
But I still do think the

1318
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:17,480
American experiment is worthy
and admirable and has huge

1319
01:12:17,480 --> 01:12:21,760
potential.
Like anything, there's going to

1320
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,280
be pendulum swings, and
sometimes the pendulum will

1321
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,920
swing in your favor and
sometimes it will swing against

1322
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,400
you.
I know people.

1323
01:12:29,480 --> 01:12:32,240
And by the way, generally it
swings too far either direction

1324
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:33,600
too.
This is true.

1325
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:35,120
And it pisses a lot of people
off.

1326
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,040
And then it comes back this way
and everybody's happy.

1327
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,280
And then it goes, oh, too far
the other way and this is how

1328
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,680
it's going to go.
This is how I mean I, I, I have

1329
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:44,640
friends who have made
significant money over

1330
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:46,440
recessions.
I, I've got a friend of mine

1331
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:50,640
who, who, who is heavily vested
in the property development

1332
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:55,160
market and, and he rubs his
hands together with Glee anytime

1333
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,680
they're the kind of indicators
coming that make you and I kind

1334
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,240
of like you reach for the
bottle.

1335
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,640
That's his world.
That's how he works.

1336
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,400
That I would hate to feel that
we fell out.

1337
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:12,640
We would fall out based on his
perspective on the way the world

1338
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:14,640
works or my perspective on the
way the world works.

1339
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,440
I would hate if you and I fell
out.

1340
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,920
I I understand there are some
people, we both know them who

1341
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,400
feel very strongly and
passionately about what's going

1342
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,960
on at the moment.
Yeah, I I understand that

1343
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,120
without starting to pull
different parties policies

1344
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:31,640
apart, which is frankly at the
moment completely

1345
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,920
counterproductive anyway.
I understand why they are

1346
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:38,000
concerned about the things they
are concerned about.

1347
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:45,000
But on a human level, I do not
believe one mind has ever been

1348
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,160
changed by insulting somebody
either in person or on social

1349
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:49,720
media.
Never.

1350
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,120
Or belittling somebody, never.
You, you and I, you, you, you,

1351
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:55,880
you brought up the last election
and, and there was a time when

1352
01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:00,400
you and I got into it a little
bit on social media and then we

1353
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,720
both immediately pulled away
and, and, and I, I think, I

1354
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:05,040
think I picked up the phone and
called you.

1355
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:06,240
You might have picked up the
phone and called me.

1356
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:10,160
I don't remember.
And we had a long conversation

1357
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:16,240
about why we felt the way we
felt about the particular issue.

1358
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:24,040
That is how we join together and
find unity and togetherness.

1359
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:26,640
And I'm going to sound like I'm
seeing Kumbaya, but to find

1360
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,720
unity and togetherness.
And that's how we move the

1361
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,400
country forward in positive
ways.

1362
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,040
I can't remember who it was that
said it, so I'm going to miss

1363
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,160
it.
Probably misattributed to

1364
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:36,400
Benjamin Franklin.
I think it was Benjamin Franklin

1365
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,400
that said the the definition of
a first rate intelligence is the

1366
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,680
ability to hold 2 contradictory
ideas in your mind at the same

1367
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:47,000
time and still function.
That is, I think that.

1368
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:48,560
Is interesting, I've never heard
that one.

1369
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,120
I think we've lost.
A lot of that I, I want to know

1370
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:55,880
what you think and you feel and,
and, and my people, my friends

1371
01:14:55,880 --> 01:15:00,160
who feel differently than I do
far more than I want to hear

1372
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,920
what people that think the same
as me feel, think and feel.

1373
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,400
And that's the same way in the
workplace, Marcel.

1374
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:10,360
And I think this is a microcosm
of, you know, we're an industry

1375
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:12,880
full of cliches.
You know, the audio guys don't

1376
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:14,880
get on with the lighting guys,
the lighting guys don't get on

1377
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:16,800
with the video guys, all of this
kind of stuff.

1378
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,320
My feeling is that we all have
to win.

1379
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,640
None.
I've never encountered somebody

1380
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,680
from the audience who went home
and said that was a great gig

1381
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,160
other than the audio.
Or yeah, it looked like shit,

1382
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,720
but but man was the video great.
Our ultimate clients, the people

1383
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,320
that come and enjoy the projects
that we do, whether it's a theme

1384
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:39,200
park ride or a holiday like show
or a concert or whatever, they

1385
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:42,040
have an expectation of all of us
working together like grown-ups,

1386
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,600
getting our jobs done and
supporting each other.

1387
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,600
And if audio's having a shit
day, I'm going to be there to

1388
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:48,400
go.
What can we do to help?

1389
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,320
You need to move that light.
I'll move that light.

1390
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,800
It doesn't matter.
The shit day thing is such a

1391
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:54,960
good point because what I was
thinking while you were saying

1392
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,920
all of this is one of the
differences sometimes or one of

1393
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:01,400
the triggers or whatever you
want to call it is is down to

1394
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,400
circumstance.
And I'll give you a quick story.

1395
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:09,160
I I one of my neighbors where I
used to live with my ex-wife

1396
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:14,240
became one of my best friends.
Really, really good guy extreme.

1397
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:18,360
So prior to Obama, I don't know
if I've ever told you this, but

1398
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,640
I I never voted in the United
States.

1399
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:27,120
I became a citizen in 2003, I
believe it was, and I never

1400
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,120
voted.
I never voted in Canada either.

1401
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:33,600
This is how apolitical I am.
It's how little I I appreciate

1402
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,600
politicians.
I appreciate the results, but I

1403
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,320
I do not appreciate politicians
'cause I think they're all a

1404
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,560
little bit flawed, very flawed.
And and yeah, they're all in it

1405
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:48,040
for themselves for some reason,
one or the other.

1406
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,280
They should all we wear to
actually to wear a uniform.

1407
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:52,560
I don't like the one Jeremy
wears when he's racing that has

1408
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,320
all the companies.
Oh, yeah, Somebody said, just so

1409
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:58,760
you know, some reporter or
somebody said that that they

1410
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,680
should have to have like a sign
that says of all of the people

1411
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:02,960
who've paid their bills or
whatever.

1412
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:05,320
Yeah.
But anyways, so this friend of

1413
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:08,200
mine, his name is Bernie, and he
worked for a very large

1414
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:14,240
corporation and, you know, so
got a really nice paycheck, you

1415
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:16,640
know, didn't care too much,
couldn't change the world too

1416
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:23,760
much, etcetera, etcetera.
And during Obama's first four

1417
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:29,960
years, what happened in my
company was that my health

1418
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,880
insurance costs.
So I pay 100% or did at the

1419
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:38,480
time, I paid 100% of all of my
staff's health insurance, which,

1420
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:42,600
you know, I, I don't know if you
do or not, but at the time it

1421
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:48,160
was about, on average, I'd say
it was about $350.00 per person.

1422
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:53,600
During Obama's first term, that
went to close to $800 per

1423
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,640
person.
And this is when I started

1424
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,760
going, holy shit.
You know, like my, my bookkeeper

1425
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,960
would be like, OK, you know,
it's another, however many

1426
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:03,560
thousands of dollars for health
insurance.

1427
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:05,240
And I'm like, what is going on
with this?

1428
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:07,400
It's like, it feels like every
two months it goes up.

1429
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,520
And so I, I started becoming a
little bit political when I

1430
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:16,840
started seeing what was going on
with some of the health

1431
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:20,560
insurance costs and, and why
they were going up and things

1432
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:24,040
like that.
So Obama's second term was the

1433
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,360
very first, very first time I
ever voted.

1434
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:31,240
And of course I voted against
him, even though I didn't

1435
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:34,000
necessarily agree with the
person that he was up against.

1436
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:36,360
I just knew I didn't want four
more years of that guy.

1437
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,800
And if there were another
Democrat I could have voted for,

1438
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,080
I probably would have looked
very closely at them as well.

1439
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:47,640
And so, so anyways, Long story
short, Bernie and I were having

1440
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:52,040
drinks and cigars one night by
the pool and we started talking

1441
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,320
about this.
You know why I wasn't going to

1442
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,640
vote for Obama And he was
telling me why he was going to

1443
01:18:56,680 --> 01:19:01,560
vote for Obama again.
And you know, he was very like,

1444
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:06,200
I didn't think many, a lot of
his ideas or a lot of his, his

1445
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,800
arguments were backed by fact.
I, I felt like they were backed

1446
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,200
by feeling and mine were very
much backed by fact.

1447
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:15,760
I had the numbers, I had the
receipts.

1448
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:17,880
I had the receipts.
As you might say, this is

1449
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:19,960
exactly why I'm not voting for
him.

1450
01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:25,920
And Long story short, a couple
of years later, Bernie started

1451
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:29,120
his own business and became
quite successful quite quickly

1452
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:35,120
and became a Republican and
lifelong Democrat, fairly

1453
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,640
political family, 2 parents, one
of his parents, I think worked

1454
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,360
or his in laws worked for
Microsoft.

1455
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:44,120
And you know, they, they all
worked for big businesses and

1456
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,800
they all voted a certain
direction and they were all

1457
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:49,680
Democrats.
And he was a Democrat.

1458
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,840
And now he votes Republican and
he still doesn't agree with all

1459
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,280
the things that the Republicans
do, nor do I, I never will.

1460
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,120
They're they're a creepy bunch
too.

1461
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,920
It's just that if I have to pick
one set of policies over

1462
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:02,800
another, I might pick this one
instead.

1463
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,520
So you know, why did I tell you
that?

1464
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:07,560
I can't even remember.
I think it offset something that

1465
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:09,400
you were just.
Saying, but but I, I think what

1466
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:13,520
that reflects, Marcel, is
somebody who is comfortable

1467
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:19,680
questioning their own beliefs re
evaluating the way they feel

1468
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,120
about things.
And when I made that decision,

1469
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,880
who who knows?
Do do I agree with everything

1470
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:27,480
you you're saying about
healthcare costs?

1471
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,120
I I do, it's really it's just
spiraling out of control.

1472
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:34,000
Regardless of who's in charge.
For the same or worse care,

1473
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:41,640
yeah, but but I do appreciate
somebody who is comfortable

1474
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:47,680
enough in their own intellect
and in touch enough with their

1475
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,240
own ego.
But they can say, you know what?

1476
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:52,320
I actually changed their mind.
I changed my mind.

1477
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:55,520
I I think politic, politicians
on both sides of the aisle could

1478
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,200
learn a big lesson from that.
I wish we had more politicians

1479
01:20:58,200 --> 01:20:58,960
who'll go.
You know what?

1480
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,920
I've actually gone away and
learned some more about this and

1481
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,400
talked to a bunch of people, God
forbid, listen to my

1482
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,000
constituents and I'm changing my
position.

1483
01:21:07,480 --> 01:21:10,160
We, we nail politicians to the
cross for that.

1484
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,000
So we continue to get a more
amplified and exaggerated

1485
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:19,880
version of that in the same way
as when we vilify people in our

1486
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,680
industry who are just getting
started.

1487
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,960
They're like, oh, well then
clearly the role model here is

1488
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:27,440
that I get a little more
successful and then I piss on

1489
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:30,720
the next person down rather than
the people that are up here

1490
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,520
reach down and help me up.
So I'm going to reach down and

1491
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:39,120
help them up.
And that's frankly what I took

1492
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:44,680
away from yours and Steve's
comments about the way what I

1493
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:50,600
was posting was making people I
loved but didn't necessarily

1494
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:54,200
agree with feel.
And I think that's the most

1495
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,800
important thing we we can do is
think about how we're going to

1496
01:21:57,800 --> 01:21:59,720
make people feel.
Because we're certainly not

1497
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:01,280
going to make anybody.
We're not going to change

1498
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:06,800
anybody's minds if we make them
feel maligned, hated, ridiculed,

1499
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,320
foolish.
That's the worst possible.

1500
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,640
Place think of this changing
somebody's mind.

1501
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:15,000
Heavily simplified analogy, but
let's say I have a family of

1502
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,280
four.
And.

1503
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:19,680
Two of the people in my family
of four despise meatloaf.

1504
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:23,800
It's something they would never
eat in a million years, and just

1505
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:26,120
no matter what I put on it,
they're never going to eat

1506
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:28,760
meatloaf.
And let's say I make meatloaf

1507
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:32,760
every night for a couple of
weeks or every third night for a

1508
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:34,960
couple of weeks or whatever.
How's that going to go over?

1509
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:36,280
You know what I mean?
Like it's.

1510
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:38,600
Not like I'm going to suddenly
change their mind, Yeah, And

1511
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,640
they're going to feel like
they're not important and not

1512
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,400
valued and not worthy.
I mean, it's so anyways, I mean,

1513
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,640
again, at the end of the day for
me, like, I know a lot of

1514
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:53,120
Republican voters, by the way,
who would have voted for RFK

1515
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:56,840
given the opportunity.
And that's based on policy and

1516
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:00,840
personality, you know, over the
guy that they were technically

1517
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:06,280
forced to vote for.
And so, you know, like, it's a

1518
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:11,000
very broken system.
The thing that I generally want

1519
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:16,240
is for my friends to do what
they feel best to do, and I'm

1520
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:17,840
going to do what I feel best to
do.

1521
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:20,920
And what happened to the days
where it was kind of like, you

1522
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,120
know, I'm not telling you who I
voted for, You know, it's like

1523
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,720
coming out of a, you know, I
don't want to keep using

1524
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:31,600
analogies, but you know, it,
it's I don't know why it became

1525
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:36,360
such a thing to post that on, on
your forehead saying, you know,

1526
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:39,320
I'm voting for this person.
And if you're not, you're wrong,

1527
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,280
you know, And so.
Yeah.

1528
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:44,920
I mean, it's, it's hard to see
Marcel with with that degree of

1529
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:47,520
self identification, political
self identification.

1530
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:52,160
Now we have a path forward the
next time, and I hope it

1531
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:59,120
happens, we get a transformative
lead the next time we get a JFK

1532
01:23:59,480 --> 01:24:03,080
in this country.
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully.

1533
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:05,040
Oh dear God, I hope so.
I don't.

1534
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,120
Know wherever we get those
people like which?

1535
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:08,560
Whichever, whichever side they
come from.

1536
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:10,440
First of all, I think a lot of
good people are like going to

1537
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:11,480
politics.
Are you kidding me?

1538
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:13,400
That's the problem.
Absolutely not.

1539
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:20,240
But if we get a leader on either
side who is a true unifier, who

1540
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:25,960
is a true visionary, who has a
path forward, almost 50% of the

1541
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:27,680
country are never going to
listen to what they have to say

1542
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:33,040
in the 1st place because they
are conditioned by media, both

1543
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:37,120
social and not to not even be
open to listening to what other

1544
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,920
people have to say.
And, and I think this goes back

1545
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:41,800
to what we were saying about
when we bring like young people

1546
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:44,360
into our businesses and
listening to it, I think it's

1547
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:47,720
one of the reasons why this
podcast is important because it

1548
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:51,320
it presents different opinions
and different perspectives about

1549
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:54,840
our industry and about life.
But we're never going to move

1550
01:24:54,840 --> 01:25:00,520
forward as a country unless we
all can find a way to come

1551
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:04,680
together and go, all right,
come, come, convince me,

1552
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,480
convince me why this is the
right way forward.

1553
01:25:07,480 --> 01:25:12,360
And I'm really going to prove
this and openly to what you say,

1554
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:14,400
we're all human.
We've all got ego, we've all got

1555
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,680
preconceived notions, we've all
got life experience.

1556
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:20,520
But to really listen to what
people have to say.

1557
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,160
And and I'm certainly not
putting myself on a pedestal,

1558
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:25,200
but that's what I tried to do
when you spoke to me and Steve

1559
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:29,440
spoke to me was really listen
and say, all right, maybe

1560
01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:32,400
there's something here I can
learn about how this feels to

1561
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:33,960
somebody else.
And and I don't, I don't know

1562
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,520
about you, Marcel.
I sense you're probably the same

1563
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:39,680
way that when you put your head
on the pillow at the end of the

1564
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:41,800
day, you know?
All right, what did I learn

1565
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:46,160
today?
And if I've learned ways to be

1566
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:53,520
kinder, to be more open, to be
more nurturing, be more

1567
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:57,040
supportive, and certainly if
I've done all those, be more

1568
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:00,120
creative, because for me, my
creativity comes from all of

1569
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:03,600
those, all of those essences,
then I'm going to go, you know

1570
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:05,200
what?
That that was actually not a bad

1571
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:07,280
day there.
You know, I helped somebody, I

1572
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:09,600
inspired somebody.
I learned something from

1573
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,440
somebody that I wouldn't have
otherwise known.

1574
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,960
And, and maybe, you know, 111
more quote.

1575
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:21,160
Edith Walton said there are two
ways to of spreading light.

1576
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:26,360
You can either be the candle or
you can be the mirror and I can

1577
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:30,200
be flamethrower.
Well, yeah, wise one on the

1578
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,120
phone, but you know what I mean.
You can either be the candle or

1579
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:35,400
you can be the mirror, but so
long as you're spreading some

1580
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:37,680
light and making things better,
then I think we can.

1581
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:41,040
I hope everybody can agree then
that's that's a worthy.

1582
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:44,320
I agree so much and, and you
know, again, from my side, like

1583
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:48,880
I just don't see a point of me
going out there and telling

1584
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:51,960
people what I think or why you
should vote this way or that

1585
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,000
way, because nobody's going to
change their opinion based on

1586
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,320
anything I'm going to say.
So instead, why don't we talk

1587
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:01,560
about, you know, puppy dogs and,
and your kids and what your kids

1588
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:05,040
are up to and what are your
family vacations this year and

1589
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:08,640
all that stuff and, and go back
to, to supporting each other and

1590
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,000
loving each other and treating
each other like humans.

1591
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:13,680
And you know, I don't know, like
I.

1592
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:15,960
Here's what I here's what I
guarantee, Marcel.

1593
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:19,040
Here's what I guarantee.
Somebody that is looking at my

1594
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,000
wall on social media is having a
shit day.

1595
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:24,720
Guarantee it.
It's just the way human

1596
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:26,840
condition works.
Something is having a shit day.

1597
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:31,600
And if I can post something that
makes people feel less about

1598
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:36,040
themselves, question their
beliefs and feel insulted or

1599
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:39,400
post something that makes people
feel, oh, you know what?

1600
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:41,440
That actually makes me feel a
little bit better.

1601
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,640
Then I'm going to I'm going to
pick the second one every single

1602
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:49,200
time.
And, and and I'm very gratified

1603
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:53,000
when people post on my on my
wall or drop me a personal

1604
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,560
message or a text or whatever
and say, Hey, I was having a

1605
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:57,600
shit day.
And I read what you posted.

1606
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:03,240
And some people dismiss it as
Lib and and kind of like woo woo

1607
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:06,160
hippie.
Don't swell that I've I'll load

1608
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:07,560
that every day of the week.
You know what?

1609
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:09,280
It makes somebody a bad.
I feel like they're having a

1610
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,760
better day than I'm only.
Yeah, John, you're doing the

1611
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:13,400
right thing.
I I love it.

1612
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:16,640
And I can't tell you enough how
much I appreciate the change

1613
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:20,040
that you made for me and for
your friend Steve.

1614
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:25,400
I, I noticed it and I've told 50
people about it, just how

1615
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:29,320
amazing that somebody would
actually hear someone and go,

1616
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:30,600
you know what?
I agree.

1617
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:33,960
I'm going to try that instead.
And you know, it's made a

1618
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:37,080
difference in my life for sure,
because I love looking at your

1619
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:40,280
posts and I love the goofy
positive stuff and, and the

1620
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:43,880
quotes and everything else.
So I appreciate you spending

1621
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:46,400
this time today.
I, I hope we didn't change

1622
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:50,360
anybody's minds, but hopefully
we changed some opinions or some

1623
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:53,600
thoughts or some ways of doing
things, some ways of treating

1624
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:56,320
other people, you know,
especially the young people in

1625
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:59,280
our industry.
Like I'm going to do as I get

1626
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:02,640
older, I'm going to keep doing
everything I can to help people

1627
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,720
in this industry and to share
information and to connect

1628
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,000
people.
Like I think that's my, my

1629
01:29:08,440 --> 01:29:10,600
superpower is connecting.
People, it is a superpower.

1630
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:14,640
It is a superpower, yeah.
If there's a world where we can

1631
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:17,080
be anything, let's just be kind.
I agree.

1632
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:19,880
Well said.
Thanks mate, take care.

1633
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:20,520
Bye bye.