#277 - Neil Juneja

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Well, just recorded here with
Neil Januja, who's a attorney in

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a lot of different industries,
but he became big and famous in

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the weed industry and he's just
a super smart, interesting guy,

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a lot of fun to talk with.
You'll see that we kind of

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started down this path and then
just kind of went whoops,

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whoops, whoops, whoops.
And we talked about 100

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different things.
So it was a fun conversation.

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I hope you enjoy it.
It was a blast to do and enjoy.

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Hello and thanks for joining
today on Gears of Gear episode

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#277 Two days podcast is brought
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And last but not least, I wanted
to do a quick shout out to our

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friends at Coffee Cult.
I am just getting another

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shipment in of coffee today.
I ran out last night actually

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and or I think I ran out this
morning, but I'm out, put it

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that way.
So I'm like I'm shaky, not from

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coffee, but I'm shaky because I
need coffee.

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If you haven't tried coffee,
call it yet.

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Why not?
It's the best.

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The geezers grind blend that
they created for us is amazing.

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It's a combination of their Rd.
Dog and medium blend and it's

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just fantastic.
And better yet, all of the

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profits, all of the proceeds
from any sale of Geezers Grind

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coffee beans goes to Roby
Backstage, a charity that takes

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care of our industry.
So try it because it's great

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coffee.
I promise you it is, but you'll

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also be benefiting our industry
with a very gracious charitable

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charitable donation from Coffee
Cults.

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So visit Coffee Cult with KS,
Coffee with AK, Cult with ak.com

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and if you order 2 bags I
believe the shipping is free and

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support a great family owned
local business but also support

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our industry.
Thanks.

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So here we are.
The election is over.

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It actually was over last week,
but I didn't want to talk about

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it because I had Bob Bonnie all
on, and I know that he's

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certainly a little bit intense
when it comes to this election

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cycle.
I'm glad it's over.

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I'm glad that the world will
return to whatever this new

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version of normal is going to be
and we can all be friends again.

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Because at the end of the day,
that's the part that bothers me

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the most, believe it or not, is
that our industry sort of picks

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sides and you're not allowed to
hang out with the other side,

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which is crazy.
I like everyone, unless you're

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just a lousy person.
And so for me, I don't care who

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you vote for, who you sleep
with, who you pray to, who you,

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whatever, none of that matters
to me.

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It's, it's really just are you a
good person or a bad person?

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And fortunately, most of the
people I know in this industry

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are good people.
So I'm glad to be able to be on

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the same side again, at least if
we can forget about politics,

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cuz I've forgotten about it for
sure.

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I'm so uninterested in watching,
listening, you know, getting

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phone calls from or text
messages from any political

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side, regardless of which side
you're on.

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So that is gone.
And Speaking of Bob Bonio, what

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a great chat.
I always forget how friggin

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smart that guy is.
I mean, it is unbelievable.

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His level of knowledge of just
technology in general, but

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specifically AI, which you know,
of course, is one of my favorite

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topics lately.
So check out that episode.

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I think it's 276 if I remember
correctly, and I believe as I'm

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recording this, it just got
launched this morning.

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So really, really excellent
chat, most of it way above my

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head, but a lot of it I actually
understood and and was able to

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comment on a little bit as well.
So check out Bob Barnio 276.

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And Speaking of AI, So this
morning on my morning walk and

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much longer, I haven't finished
it, but I've been listening to

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Lex Friedman talk with Dario
Modi.

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I think his last name is from
Claude and Anthropic.

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He's the CEO of Anthropic, which
operates Claude and multiple

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other models as well.
But Anthropic is one of the big,

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like open AI, like X AI, it's
one of the big AI firms that is

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doing really big things and
their model is moving very

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rapidly ahead.
So a couple of the things that

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he's talked about, and I
recommend if you have interest

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in AI or if you want to learn
more.

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I mean, these guys talk at a
pretty high level, so they're

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tough to follow for anyone, but
especially if you're really new

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to AI.
It might not be the first

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podcast I'd send you to, but
it's a good one.

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So Lex Friedman, again with
Dario Emodi, I don't know what

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episode number that is, but I'm
sure if you search for Dario on

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Lex Friedman, you'll find it.
I'm listening to it on Spotify,

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I think.
So they talk about this one

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thing that I knew nothing about,
mechanistic interpretability.

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Mechanistic interpretability.
And it's basically this process

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of reverse engineering these
large language models into terms

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that we humans can understand
and that we can process.

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And, you know, it comes down to
just an easier way, casual

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understanding of how these
neural networks work and how

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they process information
specifically.

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Part of that is, you know, we
obviously don't want these

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machines to get ahead of us and
to a point where we can't

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understand what they're doing or
we're just going, oh, you leave

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Johnny in the corner, what harm
is he going to do?

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You know, you want to be on top
of this, you want to monitor,

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you want to, there has to be,
you know, just clarity and, and

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it's got to be transparent.
You know, there has to be

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transparency to these models and
we need to understand what

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they're doing.
And so this mechanistic

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interpretability is a term based
on reverse engineering these

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models and figuring out what
they do and allowing humans to

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understand that.
Another big topic that they

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discussed is, is basically
safety and, and the fear that

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these machines are optimizing
against us and then they'll gang

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up together.
So open AI and anthropic and all

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of these machines will gang up
together and take out the human

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race basically.
So this is this is sort of the,

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the worst case scenario concern
of people.

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You know, obviously there's a
lot of lower level concerns,

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losing jobs, you know, replacing
people, blah, blah, blah, all

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very important as well.
But completely, you know,

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annihilating the human race is,
is, I'd say right at the top of

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those concerns.
And so listening to this

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gentleman on this podcast, he is
actually very concerned with

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safety.
And they have created something

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called RSP, which stands for
responsible scaling policy,

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which basically has put in place
checks and balances to make sure

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that as they're scaling.
And I'm trying to read notes

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while I'm telling you this
because I can't remember all of

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these acronyms and stuff, but as
they're scaling, they're

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basically going in and checking
on things.

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And it's like this.
If then model, as I recall,

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where if this certain criteria
is met, then we're going to do

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this.
So in other words, don't put in,

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don't force safety protocol or
safety processes into the mix

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until you need to.
And so if this happens, then we

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do this.
And it sounds ingenious, but I

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just wonder, you know, how far
they're going to go with it.

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Is money going to overrule
safety and security or does it

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just continue to become a free
for all?

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So, you know, it's interesting.
I mean, the the crazy thing

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about AI beyond all of the
obvious stuff is the amount of

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money it's generating and the
amount of money being invested

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into it is tells you really how
big this thing is obviously, But

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also it is going to continue to
drive and direct, I think people

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to do good or bad things.
And at the end of the day, we

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need people to do good things.
We need, you know, this is one

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of those double edged sword
scenarios where it can be used

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to, you know, cut food or, or to
protect yourself or it can be

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used to go out and murder people
and steal their car.

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And so, you know, counting on
humanity to do the right thing

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is always a bit of a scary,
scary thought.

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And so we'll see.
You know, I'm following it very

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closely.
Hopefully you're following it

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because it is, as I continue
saying, it's common and you

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either understand it and use it
to your benefit or you become a

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victim to it in some sense.
Or you know, you're ignorant to

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the capabilities and to what
it's doing to your lifestyle or

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what it might do to your
lifestyle or whatever.

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And so, yeah, interesting.
So I've heard some bad news over

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the past couple of weeks, weeks
I've heard especially this week.

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This week's been a weird week
of, of staff cuts in some

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different companies and people
moving around and stuff moving

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around.
Tina Rath, I don't know if

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you've heard or if you know her,
but Tina, as I'm reading this to

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you, I think it was announced
yesterday.

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I knew it about I knew about it
a little earlier than that.

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But Tina left 4 Wall and has
joined her old boss Mike Cannon

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at Main Light.
And I think it's a really good

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fit.
It's a good fit for both

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parties.
You know, I think Tina is one of

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those roll up your sleeves and
work really hard for my

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customers types of people and
Main Light like to see

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themselves.
You know, I think the old four

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Wall quote was small enough to
care, big enough to something I

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don't remember.
So yeah, Tina's gone.

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Congratulations.
Good luck to you.

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And I don't know if this means
that we're going to start seeing

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the floodgates opening at 4
wall.

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I don't think so.
You know, I've certainly had

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some conversations with people
who are considering moves.

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We'll see where that goes.
You know, obviously, again,

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we've talked about it so many
times.

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We need to see them get out of
this cycle that they're in and

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either sell the company or get
reinvested or whatever it is,

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but pull out of this because,
you know, there's vendors and

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suppliers and staff and all
kinds of people out there,

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customers who really want this
thing resolved.

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And it needs to be resolved.
And I've got some inside

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information on what's going on
right now, which I won't share

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on the podcast, but there's a
lot of stuff happening at Fort

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Wall right now.
And let's just hope for the

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best.
And sadly, very good friend of

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the show, very good and very
recent podcast guest.

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And a great friend of mine,
Cosmo Wilson has parted ways

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with Gateway, which is
interesting because he just

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talked on our podcast about his
relationship with Gateway and

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about how great those people
are, etcetera.

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And now suddenly he's gone.
So I just found out about this

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yesterday morning, I believe.
And so by the time you hear this

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podcast, I'm sure that's public
information and I'm not sharing

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any secrets, but yeah, I'm kind
of sad for that.

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I I think he was in a sense, you
know, a big part of that company

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as far as just how it makes you
feel, you know, doing business

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or talking about Gateway.
And I still love a lot of the

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people there.
Don't get me wrong.

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You know, Dave Haskell is, is
one of my favorite people.

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00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,360
But yeah, it, it sucks.
And then the other it sucks.

225
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,880
Change this week is Mark
Ravenhill departing Christie.

226
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,200
So I never completely understood
that position.

227
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,360
You know, I'm one of these old
school, you know, sales leaders,

228
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,280
I guess, who believes that
salespeople should have sales

229
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,760
targets.
And he was basically in a sales

230
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,440
position without a sales target
similar to Cosmo.

231
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,080
In a sense, Cosmo will say I
wasn't a sales guy.

232
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,240
But at the end of the day, if
you're out there preaching the

233
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,760
good word of Christy Lights or
of Gateway, you are a

234
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,720
salesperson.
In a sense, you're, you're

235
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,840
promoting the company and you're
bringing customers to the

236
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:05,160
company, you're a salesperson.
So to me, any role where you're

237
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,280
in a sales type role, but you do
not have a sales target, you

238
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,800
don't have goals, you don't have
specific, you know, let's get

239
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,640
$1,000,000 in the day in the
door this week or whatever it

240
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,240
is.
It's challenging, you know, that

241
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,360
can create all kinds of problems
in, in my opinion.

242
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,840
And it's odd that both of them
are gone in the same week.

243
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,160
And I don't know that I'm smart
and have anything to do with

244
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,000
what that is.
I don't know if that's the

245
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,080
reason, but to me there's a
similarity between those two

246
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,960
roles.
They were both, you know, spokes

247
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,840
models for those companies and
yet didn't have sales targets,

248
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,480
probably were not paid
commissions or any kind of

249
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,280
incentive based pay.
So anyways, best of luck to both

250
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,000
of them.
Obviously Cosmo is going to be

251
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,120
back out with ACDC soon, sadly
not with Aerosmith, but knowing

252
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,920
Cosmo, his calendar for next
year is going to be completely

253
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,200
packed with bands we know about
him, bands we don't know about

254
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,920
yet.
So I know he's he mentioned on

255
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,200
the podcast last week or two
weeks ago that he's actually

256
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,680
turned down a couple things.
And so maybe he'll go back and

257
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,840
re look at it some of those
things because, you know, with

258
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,480
Gateway gone, not only is that
a, you know, an opening on your

259
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,280
schedule, but it's also an
opening in your bank account.

260
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,680
You know, you want that money
coming in still.

261
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,480
What else?
I think that's really all that I

262
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,240
had to share with you today.
So Please remember to like and

263
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,440
subscribe and, and share our
podcast.

264
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,760
Obviously that helps us, that
helps the sponsors, it helps the

265
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,760
guests a lot because it gets it
out bigger.

266
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,760
And one in particular that
you've seen recently is Mr.

267
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,240
Brickman, Mark Brickman.
So it's been one of the most

268
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,640
viewed, shared, liked, commented
podcasts that we've ever done.

269
00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,520
It's it's been very popular.
And, and it's because you know,

270
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,920
it was a great conversation.
It was a great talk.

271
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,760
And, and Mark is quite famous.
And, and obviously David Gilmour

272
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,599
is a big deal and it might be
his last tour, who knows?

273
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,240
So, so yeah, I mean, like,
share, subscribe.

274
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,400
I appreciate you.
Thank you very much.

275
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,400
And so on to today's guest who
has been on the podcast before.

276
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,880
Back in 2020, I believe he was
on with Joe Cole and they were

277
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,400
talking about drive in raves
that they were doing at the

278
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,880
time.
And you can go back and listen

279
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,880
to episode 111 if you really
want to hear today's guests

280
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,440
background and and some of the
things that he's done in his

281
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,160
past and why he is attached to
the lighting business.

282
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,400
We'll talk a little bit about
that today, but Neil Juneja is a

283
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,920
business and intellectual
property attorney.

284
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,560
He is the founder and managing
partner of Gleam Law, a firm

285
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,360
headquartered in Seattle, WA.
His impeccable track record and

286
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,200
years of experience in the
formation, growth and exit

287
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,960
strategies of businesses
throughout the world, as well as

288
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,880
navigating the complexities of
patents, trademarks and

289
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,560
copyrights with clients in 46
States and on five continents.

290
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,200
The majority of his practice
focuses on trademark protection

291
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,920
of cannabis brands in state and
federal law, as well as patent

292
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,760
protection for cannabis
inventions.

293
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,600
Neil has over.
I remember some cannabis

294
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,920
inventions back 40 years ago in
my life.

295
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,000
Where where was I?
Neil has over 20 years of

296
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,680
experience in entrepreneurship,
business consultation,

297
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,440
entertainment, lighting and
technology industries.

298
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,560
Neil understands unique business
needs of clients of every size

299
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:46,040
and that's it.
So please welcome Neil Juneja

300
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,800
back to the podcast.
Neil is that vodka in that cup

301
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,560
or is it coffee?
It's coffee I I didn't ever

302
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,520
drink a lawyer.
Oh, really?

303
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,880
Are you kidding?
These are people's businesses

304
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,040
you're dealing with?
Yeah, there's no room for error.

305
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,720
Yeah, I like drunk lawyers.
They're my favorite lawyers.

306
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:10,840
Well, that's in the evening.
So you know, you're basically

307
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,920
mostly in the weed business I
think, right?

308
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,000
Like you, you do law for people
who are in that industry.

309
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,560
You're not in the business, but
they are.

310
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,520
So that was our big claim to
fame.

311
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:28,520
So we, you know, it's funny as a
back story, I, I grew up a

312
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,080
little bit in the rave scene and
grew up smoking weed every day

313
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,160
and, you know, went to law
school 20 years ago and I just

314
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,080
lost interest in cannabis.
Yeah.

315
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,640
So in law school, I go and apply
for a lot of jobs, and I don't

316
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,840
know how to do this.
I was at the top of my field in

317
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,840
multiple fields, and I keep
getting rejected.

318
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:49,440
Oh, my God.
I need to narrow the field

319
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,280
further.
So I do a physics degree at the

320
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,120
same time as my law degree while
I'm running the lighting company

321
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,200
to become a cat attorney.
Yeah.

322
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,000
So I end up getting started.
A lot of my lighting clients

323
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,680
turned into legal clients.
And like, OK, I've got a lot of

324
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,400
clients.
I have no idea how to practice

325
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,920
law.
Law school is a waste of time

326
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,360
and money in terms of giving you
useful skills.

327
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:14,040
It's just a rite of passage and
a gauntlet and maybe making

328
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:15,680
suffers.
So you charge a lot, you know,

329
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,400
high rates and keep the rates up
there.

330
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,320
Yeah, thanks.
Thanks for that by the.

331
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,880
Way.
Hey, it wasn't me.

332
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,280
You know, you need to talk to
the the Deans of all of these

333
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,840
Cascade universities.
True.

334
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,360
Yeah.
So I'm meeting with other

335
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,840
attorneys trying to learn how to
run a business, hiring attorneys

336
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,440
to teach me.
And they keep telling me you've

337
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,080
got to do this cannabis law
thing, got to do this cannabis

338
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,360
law thing.
This is the future.

339
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,720
I'm like, you know what, That
that was my youth.

340
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,200
I am not going to slum it.
Next thing you know, two years

341
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,040
later, I represent against my
will some of my previous clients

342
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,560
get the first cannabis licenses
in the state of Washington,

343
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,480
which is within a few weeks of
the 1st in the country.

344
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,560
And I'm on CNN that morning and
I'm gonna cover Newsweek and I'm

345
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,360
not the cover.
I'm in Newsweek by name and I'm

346
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,840
in Time magazine.
Guess what, I am.

347
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,720
So you can't avoid your destiny.
And so I pivoted very hard into

348
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,600
cannabis, open up offices all
over the West Coast, tried to

349
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,760
expand to the East Coast.
Things were likethe.com era in

350
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,800
terms of just we're renting
mansions with waterfalls and

351
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,480
arcades for the staff.
It was that that time period and

352
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,840
it was a fantastic ride.
Well, over the last three or

353
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,440
four years, a couple years, you
know, 5 to 10 years after the

354
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,600
original states, the industry
contracts very heavily.

355
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,520
Yeah, hyper capitalized type.
You're competitive.

356
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,400
Everybody thought this is going
to be 70% margins.

357
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,440
No, it's not.
It's agriculture.

358
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,960
There's only so much cannabis a
person can consume, and you are

359
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,800
producing five to 10 times more
than that in every state.

360
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,000
Yeah.
So there's still the golden age

361
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,120
on the East Coast and all the
states that open, and that goes

362
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:55,720
a couple years and the
collapses.

363
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:58,680
Yeah.
You know, so now we do a lot of

364
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,960
commercial litigation.
It's been good for the users,

365
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,200
right, Because the prices seem
to have gone down and you know,

366
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,200
I don't smoke weed at all.
So I my girlfriend has never in

367
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,760
her life done any kind of drug.
She doesn't even drink.

368
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,360
And so when we were in Canada
this summer or last summer, we

369
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,240
went into one of the weed stores
and I was just asking the girl

370
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,240
all kinds of questions and she
was giving me all these answers

371
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,640
and I was learning so much and
you know, about how it all goes

372
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,480
and stuff, but she's giving me
prices.

373
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,720
And I was like, when I was a
kid, it was like 3 times that

374
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,320
much and we were buying it from
a dude in a Plaid shirt.

375
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,160
Like now you're buying it in a
nice fancy store and it's that

376
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,000
cheap really.
And so I couldn't believe how

377
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,200
low the prices have gone on that
stuff.

378
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,640
That's a race to the bottom.
The margins are pretty slim

379
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,400
these days.
So it's totally an interesting

380
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,480
industry and it's very
interesting plant.

381
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,560
So I I extremely rarely consume
now.

382
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,440
Like I said, I stopped and lost
school 20 years ago for no

383
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,360
apparent reason, but it's 130
cannabinoids that we've

384
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:09,160
identified so far, thousands of
terpenes that we already knew

385
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,600
about, which were flavour
profiles prior to being used in

386
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,640
the cannabis context.
The weird thing is 300 million

387
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,480
years ago, there's an
endocannabinoid system in all

388
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,960
life and it just happens that
cannabis is one of the things

389
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,960
that triggers it.
You know, there's a couple other

390
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,680
things that do.
So we're really just tapping

391
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,560
into a natural system that we
are just starting to understand

392
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:33,920
all of the different
cannabinoids.

393
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,440
There's not just the get high
one.

394
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,960
CBD was huge.
We're learning about THCV, which

395
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,280
may be an appetite suppressant
or maybe a type of.

396
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,080
What is THTV?
THCV is a tetrahydrocannabinol

397
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:48,320
slash VI.
Don't know.

398
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,120
Yeah.
But what does the V mean?

399
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,040
Do we know?
I'm sure we do I.

400
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,280
We you?
Because I don't fucking know.

401
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,240
I have.
No idea, Neil.

402
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,160
There's, like I said, there's
130 identified so far.

403
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,040
CBN helps with sleep and we just
got some recent studies that

404
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,960
showed it helps increase both
R.E.M. and non R.E.M. sleep.

405
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,840
So I'm just talking about very
natural substances that are

406
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,600
super beneficial once we figure
all of this out.

407
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,840
Yeah.
So I think there's a lot of

408
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,920
benefits, self medication for
people.

409
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,240
It's not just about getting
under the influence.

410
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,520
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, for most people I know who

411
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,440
do it, it is.
Most of the people I know,

412
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,280
they're doing it to be under the
influence.

413
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,560
Absolutely.
It ain't a health thing.

414
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,000
You know they'll eat a they'll
eat an apple if they want to get

415
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,000
healthy, which is.
Fine, you know the weird thing

416
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,120
though is everybody because
they're trying to get high, the

417
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,960
breeding and selection has been
very directed towards the

418
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,800
substances.
TH D9 tetrahydro cannabinol is

419
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,560
THC or THC acid.
It when it has this carboxyl

420
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,200
group is is the thing that gets
you high.

421
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,080
So we've been selectively
breeding to make that the main

422
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:06,080
cannabinoid, which means that we
are actually reducing the amount

423
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,480
of the other cannabinoids that
may have an entourage effect and

424
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,520
may have other benefits that we
just aren't experimenting on and

425
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,920
aren't in the cannabis of, like
when, you know, I smoked in the

426
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,960
90s, yeah.
But The thing is it isn't it

427
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,560
like 10 times as potent now?
Like, isn't it, you know,

428
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,360
doesn't one hit make yet as high
as a whole joint did when we

429
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,160
were kids?
Absolutely.

430
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,240
I mean.
Have to be so powerful.

431
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,200
I mean, selective breeding, you
know, really good geneticists,

432
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,400
it would used to be two and a
half, 3% THC by dry weight.

433
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,040
Now they're hitting 30 to 40%.
It's just crazy.

434
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,240
Yeah.
So that's.

435
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,240
What happens when you get guys
in lab coats growing weed?

436
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,080
It's a difference real.
Good, you know, it gets good

437
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,240
fast.
Yeah.

438
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,960
I mean, back then, it was just
the fact that they could keep a

439
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,960
plant alive shocked me.
You know, I'm looking at these

440
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,400
guys going, how did you not hold
that thing?

441
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,040
Like, how'd you remember to
water it?

442
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,520
Because the guy's sitting there
going with his eyes closed and

443
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,800
listening to Black Sabbath and
stuff, you know?

444
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,640
So, But I mean, do you ever
pinch yourself and go, God, if

445
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,880
you would have told me when I
was in law school that I'd be

446
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,360
making a living off weed
dealers, you know?

447
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,080
I, I actually bring this up
every time I see my family.

448
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,160
My mom caught me when I was in
high school, 10th grade or

449
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,400
something with weed.
She's like, you know, all

450
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,800
traditional Indian woman, You
are never going to make money on

451
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,200
the weed or no, no, no, the axle
phrases.

452
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,720
You're never going to make a
living on the weed.

453
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,240
Yeah, I called her every week,
told her.

454
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,960
Look at me now, Mom.
Yeah, hold my beard, Mommy,

455
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,280
watch this shit.
That's hilarious.

456
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,200
That's really.
No, I mean, because that's The

457
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,800
funny thing is like, I could
imagine you growing up in a

458
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,160
traditional Indian family and
and you know, that shit don't

459
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,000
fly, right?
So that's funny.

460
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,280
That's hilarious.
What about, I don't know are So

461
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,800
when I was in Canada this year,
one of the things that I was

462
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:16,520
exposed to convinced to try was
micro dosing, which is basically

463
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,760
a fancy word for a very small
amount of mushrooms inside a

464
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,680
capsule that looks like a
vitamin or a supplement or

465
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,920
something that is sold legally
from a pharmacist online

466
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,920
basically right.
Like I mean.

467
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:34,360
Let's not say legally so I still
I.

468
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,840
Ordered it on a website and it
showed up at my door.

469
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,080
Yeah.
And I mean I'd be, I'd like to

470
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,400
see the COAS on that, the
certificate of analysis.

471
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,160
I find that some of these
products are actually an analog

472
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,240
of DMT, but still assignments
very cheap to produce.

473
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,760
So unlike cannabis with 130
cabinoids and all these terpenes

474
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,480
and flavored profiles, I have
effects.

475
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,200
We're talking about two to three
active ingredients.

476
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,640
So just a source material when
you're looking at cubancies or

477
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,640
mushrooms in general.
Cubancies are one of the three

478
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,520
species that produce psilocybin
that I'm aware of.

479
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,760
So you have Silvan silicin,
which it converts into

480
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,920
psilocybin and there's a third
one that I believe is an isomer

481
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,480
of 1.
So it's a very, very simple,

482
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,600
just wrong ingredients.
So it is illegal under schedule

483
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,400
one of the Controlled Substance
Act federally in the US.

484
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,320
However, it's decriminalized in
Seattle.

485
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,880
I think Colorado just decrimmed
it.

486
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:34,440
I mean, nobody's enforcing it.
And the micro dosing effect is

487
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,160
just off the charts.
We just did and we just didn't

488
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,880
do three or four years ago.
We did, you know, my law firm

489
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:46,560
did a the legal work on a study
with the Royal College of London

490
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,920
and an organization in Jamaica
on micro dosing and effects and

491
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,680
they had to keep restarting it
because the efficacy was off the

492
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,880
charts unbelievable.
It had to be wrong.

493
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,680
And we're talking about major
cures or at least such a high

494
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,240
degree of difference.
We're talking the 60% range of

495
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,520
curing anxiety and depression.
That's just insane.

496
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,400
So I think it's a great thing in
the future.

497
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,960
It's definitely a very powerful
drug and that makes it very

498
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,680
dangerous.
But I'm looking forward to

499
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,400
seeing how culture develops and
how the science develops on it.

500
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,200
Yeah, I've got to do a pitch.
I would like to say that we

501
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,080
also, I personally after five
years of working on, I've gotten

502
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:32,120
the first psilocybin federal
trademarks in the US really they

503
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,120
haven't issued yet.
They've already published and we

504
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,600
haven't put out the press
release on it.

505
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,040
So this is the breaking news
here first.

506
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,720
That's interesting.
So do you see it becoming fully

507
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,960
legal in any states anytime
soon?

508
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,480
I think we're going in that
direction the same way as we

509
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,240
are.
Cannabis.

510
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Yeah.
If you had a crystal ball and

511
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,520
you can determine which way
politics are about to go or are

512
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,320
going to go, I mean, I would be
investing all my money in you.

513
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,000
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, it's,
it's, it's interesting 'cause

514
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,480
I'm on the fence with it all.
Like, you know, I'm one of

515
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:08,400
these, you know, old fuddy Duddy
people who who isn't really fond

516
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,640
of the whole weed being
legalized thing just because in

517
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,760
my experience, in my own life
experience, people I know who

518
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,000
smoke weed everyday are not more
productive.

519
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,600
You know, they're generally not
more productive.

520
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,360
They're not less, you know,
doing things illegally.

521
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,640
They're not.
I'm not saying they're bad

522
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,520
people.
I'm just saying it doesn't make

523
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160
you go, OK, let's go do
something massive today.

524
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,440
You know it.
It makes you go.

525
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,280
You got any free loops?
Yeah, I mean, I think that

526
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,720
stereotype is earned.
Some people are more effective

527
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,680
of it.
You know, The thing is, you

528
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,480
know, I think we're probably
both more of a freedom loving

529
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,920
people in general.
And if people want to do

530
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,240
whatever they want to do in the
privacy of their own home and it

531
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,800
doesn't bother other people,
it's none of my business.

532
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,040
Have at it.
Yeah, yeah, I'm for that.

533
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:01,520
But again, the legalization
thing, I think in my opinion,

534
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,760
and this is probably an opinion
that'll be argued by everyone,

535
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,200
it it tells kids it's OK, you
know, just like if if you could

536
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,960
go back and change whether or
not alcohol became legal, you

537
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760
know, there's no report that
I've ever read that said alcohol

538
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,120
is good for you, you know,
except that it makes ugly people

539
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,920
look pretty and it therefore
widens your chances of getting

540
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,920
laid, you know?
But other than that, you know.

541
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,800
I mean, I think without alcohol,
the world population would be

542
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,880
much smaller.
It was very true.

543
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:35,680
Yeah.
Very.

544
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,040
Tolerance for who you're going
to sleep with very definitely

545
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,280
changed.
Dramatically.

546
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,000
Yeah.
Very, very true.

547
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,280
Very true.
But as a societal impact, I

548
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,120
mean, it's a grease of social
interaction, but also it's a

549
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,800
pretty negative societal impact.
Yeah.

550
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,520
I mean, on the other hand, we
saw a lot more lights when

551
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,640
there's alcohol at the concert.
Very true.

552
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,440
Yeah.
But I mean, the weed thing is

553
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,120
funny because I think because of
the amount of business that

554
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,880
happened, you know, it was it
was like an oil boom kind of

555
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,640
thing.
And a lot of the science or

556
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,200
whatever it was called, like oh,
CBD does this and CBD does this

557
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,120
and CBD does this and CBD does
this and all of this does this.

558
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,000
And I wasn't believing most of
that shit because to me, weed

559
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,200
gets you high and makes you have
a good time and makes music

560
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,120
sound better and those types of
things.

561
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,400
I'm not saying it should be
illegal, I'm just saying I don't

562
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,880
think it's necessarily the
miracle drug or whatever.

563
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,760
However, mushrooms appear to be
the miracle drug.

564
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,560
Like, mushrooms really do appear
to have those benefits.

565
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,040
You know, it's funny, as things
were starting to get moving in

566
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,560
the whole mushroom world over
the last 2-3 years, I had

567
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,680
people, famous lawyers that you
would know the name of, reach

568
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,520
out to me and say, you know,
I've actually been micro dosing

569
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,480
for 10 years and here's how you
grow.

570
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,680
And I'm like, why are you even
telling me?

571
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,040
Yeah.
I don't know, I'm in case they

572
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,400
need me pretty soon.
But apparently there has been an

573
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,400
undercurrent of usage among
highly functional people, highly

574
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,520
successful people as well, and I
had no idea.

575
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,160
Well, I know the people I know
in Canada who are highly

576
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,760
successful functional people,
you know, they're micro dosing

577
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,520
regularly.
And so, you know, I'm not like

578
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,960
saying I'm an advocate for it.
I'm not saying it's the greatest

579
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,240
thing in the world.
I did it a couple times and

580
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,680
went, you know what, this does
make me feel pretty good.

581
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,840
The first time actually got me
wasted 'cause I'm so drug free.

582
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,080
I, I don't do anything.
And so it got me pretty wasted

583
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,480
and, and pretty happy, but still
very alert and very like focused

584
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,120
at the same time, which is
crazy.

585
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,800
And so I actually had a really
good meeting, although I was

586
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:51,480
quite funny during that meeting.
But, but you know, I, I can see

587
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,800
my own self.
I, I don't have anxiety, but I'm

588
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,680
always like, OK, what's next?
What's next?

589
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,880
You know, like some form of
anxiety.

590
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,760
I guess I'm, I'm a type, very a
type.

591
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,400
And so it mellowed me out a
little bit and, and just kind of

592
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,080
levelled some things out a bit.
I guess when I've tried it, I

593
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,600
see the benefit.
Like I, I know some people who

594
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,239
have real problems in Canada.
And this one of the people who

595
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,480
was the biggest advocate who
said, Marcel, you got to try it.

596
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,639
You got to try it, you got to
try it.

597
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,520
And he, it saved his life.
It literally saved his life.

598
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,480
You know, he was, I don't know
if it was schizophrenic or

599
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:33,199
something, but very, you know,
big mental issues and it saved

600
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:34,800
his life.
So who knows?

601
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,719
Maybe.
And Joe Rogan thinks it's the

602
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,800
miracle cure for many, many
things.

603
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,840
So I.
Mean, I think it's worth, I

604
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,679
mean, these things are generally
safe, at least from a physical

605
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,000
standpoint.
So if people are having trouble

606
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,600
with things, it's not in most
scenarios going to break you to

607
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,280
try it if it's a small amount.
Now, I'm not advocating drug use

608
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,199
for people that aren't ready for
it at all, but it does have a

609
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,320
lot of promise and I'm really
excited to see where the culture

610
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,640
goes and where it moves society
forward.

611
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,040
From a business standpoint, I
don't think it's a big business

612
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,040
for us, but it's very on brand
telework in this area and I'm

613
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,560
very happy to see helping
people.

614
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,000
Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
So you were before I went off on

615
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,240
this tangent, you were telling
me that your firm has basically

616
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:18,480
shifted into more probably IP
work.

617
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,840
Now we're a bit spread out on
anything a business needs, which

618
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,200
is not the great tagline, still
working on that one.

619
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,240
So we do a lot of business law,
intellectual property and then a

620
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,680
ton of commercial litigation.
So there's always somebody

621
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,800
getting sued around here.
So we're pretty focused on those

622
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,040
areas.
I actually own Lighting law.com,

623
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,200
which is a fun area.
I just deal with lighting issues

624
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,240
in our industry anywhere to get
a lot of calls from Europe, in

625
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:48,240
which case I can barely find
that on a map, let alone I'm not

626
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,720
licensed there.
Although Europe has better IP

627
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:53,080
rules in some scenarios,
especially for copyrights,

628
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,360
right?
So, you know, when it comes down

629
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,240
to our industry, meaning
lighting and outlaw, you know,

630
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,640
it's a lot of contracts and
dealing with some liability and

631
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,080
when a trust falls down on
somebody's head, shitty riggers

632
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,400
and you know, and a lot of
trademark and patent work.

633
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,320
So that's always fun in in the
production industry, in the

634
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,640
lighting industry.
I met you a couple years.

635
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,880
I met you a couple years too
late because I think I told you

636
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,880
last time, but I went through a
trademark lawsuit with a

637
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,040
trademark had been stolen from
me by one of the world's largest

638
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,960
companies.
Starts with G and and the

639
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,720
trademark which hangs on my wall
right over here.

640
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:40,440
I still own it, but in the end,
because I I got really bad

641
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,280
advice.
Basically someone, a fellow I

642
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,840
know in Silicon Valley, advised
me on the whole process and he

643
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,760
convinced me that I needed to
file in Silicon Valley.

644
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,240
It would have been really wise
for me to file down here in

645
00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:01,040
South Florida, but instead I
filed in Silicon Valley.

646
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,160
And what I learned is every
judge, every lawyer, everyone in

647
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,800
the legal business at some point
either worked for or will work

648
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,520
for or wants to work for that
company.

649
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,560
And so you can't be treated
fairly.

650
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,440
And, you know, the whole, you
know, David versus Goliath thing

651
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,240
that I thought I had going for
me just beat me over the head

652
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,000
like a freaking stick across my
face, you know?

653
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,440
Yeah.
I mean, you give them home team

654
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,280
advantage and you're also paying
more for lawyers at market rate

655
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,960
over there than you would be
locally when I have to come.

656
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Up there for depositions.
I have to fly up there, you

657
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,360
know, if it goes to trial.
I, I, everything about it was

658
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,360
wrong.
You know, everything about it.

659
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,600
It just didn't work for me.
But by the time I figured that

660
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,720
out, I was too far in.
You know, I'm Canadian.

661
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:52,080
We're not litigious people.
I learned a lot in two years of

662
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,400
fighting this company.
I spent $1,000,000, they spent

663
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,280
an estimated $12 million trying
to kill me.

664
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:06,840
And in the end what happened was
they actually hired my one of my

665
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,600
employees, one of my employees
out of the blue, highest paid

666
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,840
guy in my company treated like
God.

667
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,920
My my sister had just gone to
his wedding.

668
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,960
My sister who works for me had
just gone to his wedding like a

669
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,880
couple months earlier.
Out of the blue, he just resigns

670
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,440
and no talking about it,
nothing.

671
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,040
Just sent in a resignation
letter.

672
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,400
Well, a few weeks later,
suddenly I get a call from my

673
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,920
attorney.
I'm actually on a OR I think I

674
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,040
just got off a plane in Canada
and my attorney calls and he

675
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,080
goes, have you seen the news
yet?

676
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,160
Have you seen your e-mail yet?
And I said no, why?

677
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,680
What happened?
And he said somehow Google just

678
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,720
got or I'm sorry, the large
company in Old One Valley just

679
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:57,520
got 26,000 files.
Discovery was closing the next

680
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,440
day.
We had delivered about 1500

681
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,600
items that we thought were
relevant.

682
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,680
And really we went by the the
word of the law, right?

683
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,400
And we delivered around 1500
items.

684
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,600
Somebody gave them 26,000 items.
And we came to find out that it

685
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,440
was this employee of ours who
they, we presume they hired him.

686
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,120
We never proved it.
So this is, you know, hearsay at

687
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,600
this point.
But so he not only delivered

688
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,640
them 26,000 files from our
Google Drive, by the way, but he

689
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,440
then deleted the drive.
So we no longer had, we no

690
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,920
longer even knew what those
files had in them.

691
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,800
You know, we didn't even know
what he had delivered to them.

692
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,120
26,000 items.
We had no idea what they were.

693
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:54,800
And so now basically they went
to the judge and said, these

694
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:00,200
guys are playing around with,
you know, discovery law and

695
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,680
they're just making a mockery of
this California court system and

696
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,880
they need to be punished.
And through this process, they

697
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:15,200
got a summary judgement.
And so, and it was literally we

698
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,040
had one day to go, a couple days
later, they would have been

699
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,640
negotiating at the time.
By the way, the damages were

700
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,360
estimated because I had to hire
an expert, damages were

701
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,600
estimated over $200 million and,
and the clock was still ticking.

702
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:35,200
And so, so all of a sudden I've
got this summary judgement

703
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,440
against me.
And I've been dealing with this

704
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,960
two years along with divorce at
the same time.

705
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,920
So it was brutal.
And so I was just like, you know

706
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,000
what, this is a sign it's time
to stop.

707
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,720
And so I just had my attorney go
to them and get me a release and

708
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:51,640
I walked away.
And sometimes that's a better

709
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,080
way to go.
A lot of times litigation is

710
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,520
just a money game as well.
I mean, who can throw more money

711
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:58,160
at it?
And.

712
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,520
Then certainly when you're
against a trillion dollar

713
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:07,040
company, you know, they win like
every, every deposition, every

714
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,280
time I had to meet with them for
mediation, whatever it was, it

715
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,760
would be me and my lawyer and
these six people on the other

716
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,960
side in like 5-6 thousand dollar
suits.

717
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,880
And you know, with a person to
carry their bag for them and

718
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,880
everything.
You know, they were getting, you

719
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,240
know, they, they had like 1718
hundred $2000.00 an hour lawyers

720
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,640
and I got my, you know, I, I
called him Erin Brockovich

721
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,880
because it was a little family
law firm in Silicon Valley.

722
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:41,040
And so, yeah, I learned a lot in
that process and it was painful.

723
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,640
Lesson.
Well, everyone said that I would

724
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,560
win in an appeal, but The thing
is if I lost, next step is I,

725
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,560
I'm responsible for $12 million
in legal fees on the other side

726
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,400
and that would have bankrupted
me.

727
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:59,160
And so I just said I'm taking my
life back and and so I have a

728
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,640
settlement document that says we
stole your trademark.

729
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,080
You still own it, it's yours to
keep.

730
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,560
And like a week or two later,
they changed the name of the

731
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,400
thing that they had stolen from
me.

732
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:18,600
And it's unreal, man, it is.
Do you guys consider going to

733
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,800
the court of public opinion and
just blowing out through the PR

734
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,640
world exactly what's happening
here?

735
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,760
Because that's not a type of
company that wants to be known

736
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,880
as a big baddie.
Yeah, so I watched a movie that

737
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,160
I forget what the movie was
called, Billion Dollar Code.

738
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,640
It's a really good movie.
If you ever get a chance, watch

739
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,840
it.
It's it's the only thing is it's

740
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,160
what do they call it when it's
in a language?

741
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,760
And then they're they're
talking, they they put in

742
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,960
English.
So what's that called?

743
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,320
Subtitled, Dubbed or subtitled?
Yeah.

744
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,760
So that's the only downside of
it because it's like, I think

745
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,000
they're from Belgium or
something.

746
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,720
But they created Google Maps.
These guys created Google Maps

747
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,640
and through a friend, eventually
they were connected to Google.

748
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,360
And you know, Long story short,
Google low balled an offer to

749
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,120
them to just buy their company.
They said no, but you know, we'd

750
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,880
like to work with you, let's do
something.

751
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,880
And they said, OK, we'll do
something, we'll do something.

752
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,640
And they dragged them along a
while and then just dumped them.

753
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,280
And so these guys were
practically bankrupt by then.

754
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,560
And then all of a sudden, weeks
later, Google Maps comes out and

755
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,880
it's their code, exactly like it
looks like their code.

756
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,640
Everything about it is their
code.

757
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,160
And so they sued Google and
lost.

758
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,760
And you know, it was so exactly
like my story.

759
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,360
The only difference is they got
a movie out of the deal, a

760
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,200
Netflix movie out of the deal or
whatever.

761
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,520
I didn't.
And so I went to my attorney and

762
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,600
I said, I want to write a book,
I want to go to Netflix.

763
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,320
I want to do all these things.
I want to go to the record and

764
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,480
it probably doesn't permit.
That well, it doesn't, but but

765
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,840
even before that, even before
that, so even before that I was

766
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,760
like, you know, I want to do all
these things.

767
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,640
And he said, you know, Marcel,
you don't want to just poke the

768
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,600
bear.
You know, you don't want to sit

769
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,600
there and poke the bear because
they they've already shown they

770
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,560
want to crush you.
Like what I learned is basically

771
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,680
a company like that doesn't want
to beat you.

772
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,200
They want to, they want to beat
everyone like you who thinks

773
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,800
they can try and go after them.
And, you know, I learned, I

774
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,880
learned a valuable lesson.
You know, little guys never win

775
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,760
against big guys in lawsuits.
You know, money, Min.

776
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,800
Definitely taken on.
We've got some massive lawsuits

777
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,480
against Fortune 50 companies
right now.

778
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,760
Yeah.
And we'll hold toe to toe with

779
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,800
them.
Yeah.

780
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,400
It just depends on what the
matter is and I've definitely

781
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,760
gotten settlements out of I'm in
Seattle so let's just say one of

782
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,600
the largest companies here and
it wasn't that hard.

783
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,520
But it just depends if they are
going to go toe to toe with you

784
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,320
or if they're going to just give
you fuck off money.

785
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,040
Yeah, well, that's all I
expected was fuck off money and

786
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,880
you know they wouldn't do it.
I mean, I, I learned that they

787
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,520
basically have a playbook that
they follow and that playbook

788
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,440
says we'll spend up to
15,000,000 or whatever it is,

789
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,080
like different lawsuits or
different things or whatever.

790
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,360
And when they get to that
number, then they go settle

791
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,680
before that.
They don't and that's all there

792
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:22,880
is to it.
They're not going to settle

793
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,880
because that admits fault and
that creates a line at your door

794
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,160
of other people that are going
to sue you.

795
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,000
I guess so.
Oh, absolutely.

796
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,400
I mean, Amazon, for instance, I
was talking to their general

797
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,080
counsel a couple years ago and
they're getting 50 to 100

798
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:40,240
lawsuits a week.
So they're just constantly, soon

799
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:45,400
there's an old department that
just has to do document

800
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,520
retainment.
Every time they consume, they go

801
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,160
and get all the data and protect
it because now it's under a

802
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,160
threat of lawsuit so they can't
cause a possibiliation.

803
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,880
I think I've been sued twice in
my whole life and and both times

804
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,760
it almost killed me.
It was like what?

805
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,840
I didn't do it.
You know, the bills are brutal.

806
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,960
I don't even sue people
personally.

807
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,520
I had a case against my landlord
in my current office.

808
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,440
I'm like, OK, I can get two or
three grand, 22 or 300 grand,

809
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,800
and we could do it in house.
Like I don't want to spend the

810
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,520
time doing this.
I'll just go out and, you know,

811
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,480
get more clients and do my work.
Plus it keeps you up at night,

812
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,000
which you know, and that's no
fun.

813
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,000
Well, that was a decision I
ended up taking.

814
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,600
Neil is, is just, you know, I'm
going to go, you know, reclaim

815
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,800
my company because this was
hurting my company.

816
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,880
You know, I took $1,000,000 in
legal fees basically out of my

817
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,040
company over a couple of years
and just what it did to my

818
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,800
health and to my my mental
well-being and stuff, it was

819
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,160
just miserable.
So I just said enough already.

820
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,800
I tapped out.
And the crazy thing is I still

821
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,120
own the trademark and the story
and everything else.

822
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,040
I could go back after them
because you know, we did

823
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:59,520
discover this employee that they
presumably hired and so some

824
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,440
things in the case changed and
we could go re litigate it.

825
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,280
And I've had somebody come to me
and offer to do that in a

826
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,160
partnership.
I just don't want to do it.

827
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,480
I just don't want to do it, you
know?

828
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,720
So don't try and talk me into it
again, Neil.

829
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:16,520
I would not.
Life is too short.

830
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,840
My job is to talk people out of
litigation.

831
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,280
Yeah.
And I do a lot of the

832
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,400
negotiations here.
So we only end up in litigation

833
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,680
if I failed my job.
Yeah, not only.

834
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,480
I mean, there's a lot of times
that makes sense, but my job is

835
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,720
to keep us out.
You're, you're a good attorney.

836
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:36,760
Like I like attorneys who my
attorney that I use down here is

837
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,160
like that too.
He's like, you don't want to go

838
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,960
to court, you know, and, and I
don't want to go to court.

839
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,720
He's right.
I really don't want to go to

840
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,920
court.
So I've settled, like even my

841
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,840
divorce got settled in
mediation.

842
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,560
You know, we never did go to
trial.

843
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:54,080
And so, you know, it's, it's a
terrible thing, but I learned an

844
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,320
awful lot about trademark law in
the process.

845
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,960
I love trademark law.
It's a lot of fun.

846
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,680
It's one of my favorite areas of
law and I do it maybe a third of

847
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,000
every day.
I was at the office till 12:30

848
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,440
PM last night.
I guess it's AM for the last

849
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,360
four hours working on it.
But yeah, the other problem is

850
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,160
if you go to court, it doesn't
matter how good your case is.

851
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,440
Sometimes things go sideways and
it's best to remove uncertainty

852
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,280
from business as much as
possible.

853
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:19,880
Yeah, very well.
Or in.

854
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,120
Your case, even divorce, you
know, you never know what

855
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,040
results may go, especially if
you're a jury.

856
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,800
No, I mean, there's been,
there's been, well, even this

857
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,160
decision, like my attorney was
floored.

858
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:31,560
You know, my attorney was like,
I can't believe it.

859
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,840
Like I can't believe they got a
summary judgement on this.

860
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,560
I can't believe it.
It's shocking.

861
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:43,000
But whatever it happened.
So what about what about AI?

862
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,800
So I want to ask you a couple of
questions about AI.

863
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,720
Number one, to me, the legal
business is one that's going to

864
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:55,200
be impacted by AII think legal
and medical are two of the big

865
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,000
ones because it's based on
research and with AI you can

866
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,640
research a lot faster and, and
without cost.

867
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:08,160
And and then the second question
is, you know, just your thoughts

868
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,720
on AI and our industry and
people being able to protect art

869
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:14,800
and, and all of those types of
things.

870
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,480
So.
Second one's a doozy.

871
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,440
Yeah.
I mean, as far as the first one,

872
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,920
I think AI's already replacing
the lower level lawyers and

873
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,600
good.
It's really that simple.

874
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,960
Why are we paying people 500
bucks an hour to do it?

875
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,200
Yeah, for what I do, I mean, a
lot of it's business

876
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,600
consultation as well.
Yeah, AI is not anywhere near

877
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,280
it.
Maybe someday, but there's a lot

878
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,040
of intangibles there.
But maybe you can then read

879
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,560
intonations of voices when
you're negotiating and things of

880
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:44,560
that nature.
Yeah.

881
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,440
And you always need somebody to
go into court.

882
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,520
I'm thinking more contract and
research stuff like that's the

883
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,480
stuff that that makes lawsuits
really, really expensive.

884
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,640
And obviously AI can do it with,
you know, at least a lower cost,

885
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,200
if not a 0 cost.
We just actually added, so we

886
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,360
use a legal database called
Westlaw that's through the

887
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,200
Thomson Reuters company or
corporation or conglomerate or

888
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,320
whatever you want to call it.
And we just added in a number of

889
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,120
AI features they had that
nothing was cheap when they're

890
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,520
charging lawyers.
But I was running through it

891
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,000
last night on contract review
and it was halfway there.

892
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,000
But it really does speed up some
of our research.

893
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,360
We still have to go into it and
say, OK, you know, we can argue

894
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,320
this or that and maybe tap on
this case and push in this

895
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,400
direction.
And so far, you know, our

896
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,400
creativity exceeds that.
And I think at least where AI

897
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,640
stands right now, you look at
books written by AI and their

898
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,800
derivative, you know, there's no
originality.

899
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,680
It's not capable of that with
with large language models.

900
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,360
It's just, yeah, unless there's
a different version of AI that's

901
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,960
going to come out, it is not a
function of the current systems.

902
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,560
Well, one of the things that AI
is doing because AI is limited

903
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,560
by data, you know, so the more
data you can feed to it, the

904
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:05,480
more information that it has to,
to gleam from.

905
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:13,000
So, you know, So what they're
doing now is AI is able to

906
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,760
create data.
And so one of the things that

907
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,320
that people are are working on
now in testing and all kinds of

908
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:25,840
things, some of these larger AI
companies is these AI systems

909
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,560
that are creating their own data
so that they can expand data

910
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,360
much more quickly than it's
expanding organically.

911
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,080
Data has to come from somewhere.
A computer cannot randomize.

912
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,560
It's not a thing.
So if you type in, you know,

913
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,080
let's say on any programming
language, random one through 10,

914
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:42,600
you know, or give me a random
number, a random number

915
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,000
generator.
It's not a thing.

916
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,640
It is choosing the 10,000 second
of the clock when you hit enter

917
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,400
or it's coming from it from
somewhere.

918
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,560
It can't make up data.
It's still derivative.

919
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,600
Yeah.
I think there's a tech company,

920
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,480
Silicon Valley, that got around
this a little bit by having a

921
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,360
wall of lava lamps they shoot a
camera at, and that's where they

922
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,880
derive their random data for
algorithms or for encryption.

923
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,760
So otherwise, yeah, it's really.
Cool, talking about the little

924
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:10,920
functional.
Yeah.

925
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,760
Otherwise data cannot be
invented.

926
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,440
It has to be derived.
It's just it's a way it.

927
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,160
Is well, so do you know who Lex
Friedman is?

928
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,080
Podcaster.
Really smart podcaster if you.

929
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,200
Get a chance, the only podcast I
listen.

930
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:33,520
To get out of here Neil, it just
came out like yesterday or

931
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,040
something, but I was listening
to it this morning on my walk

932
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,280
and it's really, really good.
They've, they've got the CEO and

933
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,880
Co founder of Anthropic, one of
the big large language model AI

934
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:48,760
companies on and he talks about
a lot of this stuff and he talks

935
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,600
about AI being able to write its
own data.

936
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:57,000
And because this is the thing
that if anything will hold back

937
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,520
AI from moving more quickly is
just running out of data,

938
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,320
hitting the ceiling and going,
OK, I need more information.

939
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,360
And so it's generating that
information.

940
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,720
It's still garbage in, garbage
out, or derivation I would

941
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:12,200
think.
But that's super interesting.

942
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,000
I'll look into.
That.

943
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
It is.

944
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,920
So on the second question
though, and you know, again, I'm

945
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,960
not picking on lawyers because
the lawyers that I've used for

946
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,600
the most part are advisors.
They're not just like contract

947
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,320
law.
Most of the time I do it myself

948
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,880
and I'll send it to the lawyer
and just say, hey, bless this,

949
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,920
please, will ya?
You know, is this OK?

950
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,160
And you'll say, oh, you spelled
this word wrong on page 7

951
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:41,400
paragraph, you know, 4A.
And but you know, I use lawyers

952
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,320
for exactly what you're talking
about, like advise me, give me

953
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,680
advice.
You know, I'm in a negotiation.

954
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,640
What do you think about the
different options or strategy

955
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,760
here in this negotiation?
And a good lawyer should be able

956
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,360
to work with you in that regard.
Otherwise they're going to be

957
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,960
out of work because if they're
just doing contracts, copy and

958
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,400
paste, Boilermaker contracts or
whatever, it's just not gonna

959
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,040
work.
I mean this AI model I was

960
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,760
telling you about with it's
called Co counsel with God.

961
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,480
I'm really not trying to
advertise overpriced software.

962
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:17,240
My legal database and AI
program, I have fed contracts

963
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:20,680
into it and said analyze the
gaps here and it's been kind of

964
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,520
cool.
A lot of it needs to be

965
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,320
reviewed.
It's not complete, yeah, but it

966
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,600
has popped up things and made my
job more efficient, which is

967
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,160
that's what it should.
Save everybody money.

968
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,960
That's what it should do.
And you know, so, and then

969
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,200
again, the other one medical,
you know, just because again, AI

970
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,400
is pretty good at researching.
And so when you look at things

971
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,440
like cancer that we've got
probably 40-50 years into trying

972
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,520
to find cure for cancer, I would
guess that 50 years could be

973
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,840
condensed to like 3 months or
something using AI.

974
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,760
And so I think we're going to
get a cure to cancer.

975
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,480
I think we're going to get a
cure to Alzheimer's to, you

976
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,080
know, what do they call them?
The four horsemen, heart

977
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,600
disease, Alzheimer's, cancer and
what's the 4th 1?

978
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,200
I forget.
Maybe diabetes?

979
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,440
Diabetes.
Diabetes.

980
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,240
So close with a lot of the
CRISPR technology and yeah,

981
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,200
well, that's CAS 9.
There's also CAS 12.

982
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,520
And so there's a lot of fun
stuff coming up with that.

983
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,560
And I think the way to actually
solve all the medical issues

984
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,960
isn't just AI, but it's a
simulated body down to the

985
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,000
atomic level, you know, with the
13 trillion or whatever cells we

986
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,120
have.
And then actually being able to

987
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,800
see the chemical and biological
reactions or biophoremic

988
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:35,800
reactions, electrical reactions
simulated.

989
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,440
And we're there and that's it.
And that's part of.

990
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,760
Part of that is, you know, I
think changing insurance systems

991
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,080
and stuff like that needs to
happen because right now all

992
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,040
we're doing is treating.
We're not, we're not, you know,

993
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,880
we're not trying to avoid
getting sick.

994
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,520
We're not trying to keep people
healthier.

995
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,440
We're trying to fix them once
they're broken.

996
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,360
And because it's profitable,
obviously, right?

997
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:04,400
But you know, like I, I pay for
testing because I want to do 100

998
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,480
things.
And if I go to my doctor and use

999
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,760
my insurance, they're only going
to test 20 things or whatever,

1000
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,520
right?
But but I want to test for heavy

1001
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,040
metals.
I want to test for a lot of

1002
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,640
other things that they don't
test for.

1003
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,120
So I go to functional medicine
doctors and you know, you can

1004
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:23,320
buy these tests that are 200
things or whatever and the cost

1005
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,960
is coming down.
But why doesn't health insurance

1006
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,640
pay for that?
Because that's making me a

1007
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,800
healthier person.
I'm not going to use your

1008
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,440
insurance as much.
Stupid.

1009
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,360
I'm surprised they don't
completely do that because I go

1010
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,320
in and I tell the doctor I also
want to test my liver enzymes,

1011
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,400
for instance, and a number of
other things.

1012
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,680
And they're like, OK, fine.
And I mean, I assume insurance

1013
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,240
is covering it because I don't
get bills.

1014
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,040
But I mean, insurance does pay
for some preventative things.

1015
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,880
One thing that comes immediately
to mind is a vasectomy, because

1016
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,240
the second best thing you can do
for the environment is not have

1017
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:58,040
children.
The 1st is kill yourself.

1018
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:04,640
Jesus, that deep, that's deep.
I'm not encouraged.

1019
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,120
You need a drink or some weed,
you need to take the edge off

1020
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,400
there, son.
So what about back to the AI as

1021
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,480
it relates to our industry?
And you know, so I talk about

1022
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,680
AIA lot.
I, it's something that not only

1023
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,000
am I interested in and curious
about, but it's something I use

1024
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,000
on a daily basis because I have
a small company with very few

1025
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:32,360
employees and I need to try to
be more efficient and do more

1026
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,960
things with less people because
we work on a skinny margin too.

1027
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,560
And so, you know, for me, AI is
a godsend.

1028
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,760
And I talk to so many people who
are like, it's.

1029
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,160
The Death of.
Us all and it's coming after my

1030
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,280
job and you know, all of these
things, right?

1031
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,200
And it's just such a a downer
look at the whole thing.

1032
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,560
But one area I think that is a
slippery slope is basically

1033
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,600
going to a concert, seeing a
design, going back home and

1034
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,280
grabbing some AI thing and
saying, you know, give me all

1035
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,800
the cues from the current
Beyoncé tour or whatever.

1036
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,600
You know, give me give me so and
so's lighting design from the

1037
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,440
current Beyoncé tour or
whatever.

1038
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,720
I mean it's always been
copyright infringement to do

1039
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,840
that, but that's the lighting
industry.

1040
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,840
We're pretty non litigious
overall, which I learned right

1041
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,320
at the beginning of my career
when nobody would sue anybody

1042
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,560
else, which is really kind of
cool, but also not great for a

1043
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,920
lawyer.
So, and I mean we've always been

1044
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,040
emulating each others designs.
So So what if you didn't get

1045
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,920
every queue you video, you know
5000 people videotaped it on

1046
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,360
their their phone at the concert
instead of watching.

1047
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,400
It you can.
Rebuild their designs.

1048
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:46,000
The designer can sue you or you
could say, you know, what is it?

1049
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,200
Emulation or imitation is the
best form of flattery.

1050
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,000
It it moves the concepts
forward.

1051
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,960
You know, we have new tools.
We get new, new movers or new

1052
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,800
lights in general or just new
effects in general, and we keep

1053
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,880
developing it.
You know, we want to look as a

1054
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,440
whole mass of, you know,
entertainment in and of itself.

1055
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,520
It should keep moving forward.
Why should somebody get some

1056
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,480
color combination or some layout
and nobody else can use it?

1057
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,960
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's an
interesting topic, you know, and

1058
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,840
it's it's similar to music
because this happens in music

1059
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,840
obviously all the time where
where, you know, some of the

1060
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,040
famous ones like Stairway to
Heaven was a ripoff of something

1061
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,600
else.
And they had Led Zeppelin in

1062
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,320
court for I think five years or
something over that.

1063
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:36,400
And I think ultimately they lost
or they settled or something,

1064
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,120
because I think the judge just
got tired of it.

1065
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,200
It was like, please stop you
guys, would you?

1066
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,200
But I mean, there's only so many
notes, you know what I mean?

1067
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,600
There's only so many notes and
so many ways to put those notes

1068
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,120
together.
So at some point, something is

1069
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,000
going to sound a little bit like
something else.

1070
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,880
It doesn't mean you were
inspired by it, It just means

1071
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,640
that it sounds a little bit like
it, right?

1072
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:01,400
Copyright law, especially with
music, is a freaking mind's nest

1073
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,280
or rat's nest up completely
random decisions.

1074
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,000
There was one years ago, The
Beatles got sued.

1075
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,480
And if you don't copy it, it's
not the infringement of

1076
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,360
copyright.
If you independently create it,

1077
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,360
it's fine.
And the court basically came

1078
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,440
down to he must have overheard
it at an airport when it was on

1079
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,240
the elevator music and that's
why he created a song so

1080
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,600
similar.
So there's four parts of.

1081
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,560
Fair use and copyright.
And one of them is taking the

1082
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:34,280
heart of the matter effectively.
You know, one of the methods is

1083
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,400
transformative.
So if you can transform the work

1084
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,160
enough and then it can work.
But how's that different than

1085
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,160
deriving it or creating a
derivative, which is

1086
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,720
infringement?
It's it's tough.

1087
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,840
And where we draw those lines is
really whether the artist should

1088
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,480
have ownership and how much
ownership they should have their

1089
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,080
works of art over.
Exactly what you're saying.

1090
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,720
There's only so many ways to do
something.

1091
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,880
Yeah.
So it's it's a very complex area

1092
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,120
of law, far more complex than
it, it really seems when you

1093
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,480
look at it on the surface.
But I think that AI just really

1094
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,600
expands this problem with all
these deep fakes and all this

1095
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,760
stuff that that you're able to
do with AI where I could say,

1096
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,840
you know, give me a picture of
Neil, but put a, you know, a

1097
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,560
cowboy hat on him and, and make
him dance like a freaking idiot

1098
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:24,480
or something.
That's yeah, I already, I have

1099
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,160
that on video.
I got it from a bar like about

1100
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,680
six years ago.
You you might not remember, but,

1101
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,760
but no, I mean it.
It's an interesting thing.

1102
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,480
I have an attorney down here who
does stuff for me and his main

1103
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,920
practice is like pop stars and
and stuff.

1104
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,800
You know, when, when any of the
large companies or anyone

1105
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,840
basically copies their, their
name, their music, their likely

1106
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,520
their, their face, whatever it
is, he goes after them.

1107
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,280
And, and a lot of times he's
going after Google because, you

1108
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:00,240
know, people will use their name
or whatever in AdWords buys.

1109
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,560
And Google is profiting from
this.

1110
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:08,560
And it's a, it's a loose, I
guess, interpretation of the law

1111
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,720
or whatever, But he, he wins
settlements from them when he

1112
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,400
does it.
And so I just think AI is going

1113
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:20,840
to take us deep, deep into that.
There is a bit of litigation

1114
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,720
that's going to be landmark
right now as far as all that

1115
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,720
data that is protected by
copyright that they are using,

1116
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,720
that AI is using to create the
derivations.

1117
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,920
It isn't that copyright
infringement and it certainly is

1118
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,000
at least on his face.
Where the law comes out is going

1119
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:42,040
to be super interesting, but
it's going to be a long, lengthy

1120
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,040
battle.
And I mean, you're still not

1121
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,200
going to end up being able to
stop AI completely in terms of

1122
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,440
that area.
But it is certainly some

1123
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,040
landmark stuff that we're all
looking at and who knows how the

1124
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:54,280
courts are going to fall out on
it.

1125
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,120
Well, essentially everything
that AI does is plagiarism of

1126
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,840
some sort because it's grabbing
that data from the Internet.

1127
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,440
Somebody created that data.
Somebody created the works that

1128
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,920
it's reading from to spit out
this information.

1129
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,400
But plagiarizing is not illegal,
Copyright infringement is.

1130
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,680
So that's a different thing.
I mean, if we're taking

1131
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:18,000
Wikipedia, those facts are
pretty much free to use.

1132
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,120
It may be how that word choice
is.

1133
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,560
That may not be so in that
scenario.

1134
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,160
And let's say they're reading it
and not copying it, which isn't

1135
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,400
even possible for a computer
because it still needs to be

1136
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,640
written on to some sort of data
stiff format, whether it's RAM

1137
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:35,000
or a hard drive or whatever.
I was just reading it and then

1138
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:36,680
reinterpreting it.
It's not infringing on the

1139
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:41,280
copyright.
So it's gonna be very, very

1140
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,320
interesting.
It'll keep some lawyers busy.

1141
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,880
A lot of lawyers.
Well, are you, is it something

1142
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,400
that you're interested in, like
is it something that you're

1143
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,160
paying a lot of attention to and
following and.

1144
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,960
You know, anything that's
cutting edge law is fun for us

1145
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,640
lawyers generally.
I mean, you can look at property

1146
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:02,640
law and say, well, you know,
this has been around for since

1147
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,640
the birth of humanity when
somebody was stealing somebody's

1148
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,680
whale or land or river,
whatever.

1149
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,280
Cutting edge law is always fun
from an academic standpoint.

1150
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:13,440
And it's a big deal.
I'm in Seattle.

1151
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,320
It's a big deal because we're
surrounded by tech in all

1152
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,440
directions.
And my girlfriend works pretty

1153
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:23,160
heavily high up in tech and she
deals with it as well, so it's

1154
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,240
not an uncommon topic of the
dinner table.

1155
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It just seems like it's going to

1156
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,840
be the wild, Wild West for the
next however many years and and

1157
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,600
then we'll all be dead because
AI is going to just completely

1158
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:38,640
annihilate us at some point.
And.

1159
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,280
It's inevitable, but not with
the large language models.

1160
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,200
I don't think they're capable of
no actual thinking process.

1161
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,280
We'd have to come up with a
completely different model for

1162
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,680
AI to get it there.
Well, they're already working on

1163
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,240
those models.
They've already got the the

1164
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,880
multiple, I forget what the
layers are called, but we're

1165
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,200
basically on version one or
whatever and, and it's going up

1166
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,600
to version four.
And they originally thought that

1167
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,360
was going to take about seven
years or something.

1168
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,120
And now we're down to two or
three years.

1169
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,800
So it's moving very quickly.
It's moving quicker than they

1170
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,080
thought it was going to move.
There's acceleration in general.

1171
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,920
I mean, how long was it before
the 1st flight to the first man

1172
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,560
on the moon?
I was at 30 years, 40 years and

1173
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:22,560
now what are we?
Doing depends who you believe,

1174
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,040
Neil.
Well, I mean, it did it.

1175
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,320
Even.
Happening in a helicopter did.

1176
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,280
It even happen or was it filmed
in a in a movie studio

1177
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,000
somewhere?
Plus there's that transistor

1178
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,120
rule was that it's not Godwin's
rule.

1179
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,600
It's Moore's Law.
Moore's Law transistors double

1180
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,520
in a chip every 18 months.
Yeah.

1181
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,160
And I think it's still
functioning as a lot.

1182
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,400
I think it is.
Yeah, I think it is.

1183
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:49,080
Yeah.
It ain't slowing down.

1184
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,240
It ain't slowing down at all,
that's for sure.

1185
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,680
No.
So you hold on, hold tight or

1186
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,880
move to Alaska, Iceland,
something like that and you

1187
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,400
know, live out your life.
Who knows?

1188
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,680
I've got 1000 islands up here.
Have friends that live in

1189
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:02,800
private islands.
There's always an escape.

1190
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,640
Always a place to go.
Yeah, I got my little, I got my

1191
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,360
little hole in the wall in
Canada.

1192
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,000
And it's, you know, I don't
necessarily agree with all their

1193
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,120
politics up there, but the cool
thing about moving to another

1194
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,160
country, even if they've got
crazy politics and stuff, as

1195
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,600
long as it's safe, you don't
care if you don't earn your

1196
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,280
money there because I'm not
paying taxes other than sales

1197
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:26,600
tax and real estate tax and
whatever, use tax basically.

1198
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,640
But I'm not paying income tax up
there.

1199
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,440
So it doesn't bother me as much
I guess.

1200
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,200
You know, I like a safe, secure
place.

1201
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:36,680
I like a place with culture and
people that you can talk to that

1202
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:37,280
are educated.
Yeah.

1203
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:44,080
You know, those are always nice.
I mean, poverty is unfortunate,

1204
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:45,680
but it's also dangerous at
times.

1205
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,280
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, you guys saw it

1206
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,080
first hand up there.
It got a little crazy it.

1207
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,640
Got a little crazy, but I would
like to actually reference that

1208
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:55,920
you must be talking about the
CHOP chazzar takeover, the

1209
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,600
police safety because they are
because we were advocates of

1210
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:04,720
accountability.
My issue with us doing it as I

1211
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,440
had lawyers out protesting.
I'm like, here's another person

1212
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,680
on the protest line.
If you want to help use your

1213
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,760
skills and lawyer it.
But you know, the whole media

1214
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,040
attention is a you see, I got
taken over.

1215
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,880
No, it did.
And it was like 4 square blocks

1216
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,200
and that was it.
And it was a really cool concept

1217
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,280
at the beginning, but it really
descended into to hell

1218
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,720
eventually.
And I lived two blocks from it.

1219
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,320
So you know, tear gas was coming
in now and again.

1220
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,160
It was an interesting time, but
it wasn't the same Hell Escape

1221
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,720
that was written about
originally.

1222
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,560
It's just it descended into that
eventually.

1223
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:44,160
But the problem is, anarchy
usually does descend into that.

1224
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,400
You know what I mean?
Like it usually lawlessness or

1225
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,920
whatever you want to call it, it
usually descends to that.

1226
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:54,520
Like we we usually.
I mean, look at tribes started

1227
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,440
without rules and then you had a
chief of the tribe and societies

1228
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,800
grow larger and larger.
There's a point where it can

1229
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,720
work.
And where this didn't work is so

1230
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,800
right when it happened, the
police abandoned the police

1231
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,440
station.
It was a a takeover and it was a

1232
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:14,840
really multicultural group of
people and at the time it filled

1233
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,880
me with hope because I walked
through and there were stages

1234
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,439
set up and talks given and
people helping each other and I

1235
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:25,720
saw Jewish.
What is the Yamika that talks at

1236
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,920
Temple or?
This was my religious

1237
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,800
understanding.
I was a rabbi surrounded by

1238
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:32,560
Palestinians.
He had his book open, and they

1239
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,319
were going over the finer points
of religion.

1240
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:37,760
And it was a really open
conversation.

1241
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,000
And I was pretty impressed.
And that's what filming with

1242
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,040
Hope is, Hey, maybe this is
where the bow breaks.

1243
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,080
And, you know, maybe people
start to understand each other a

1244
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,720
little bit.
What happened was it became

1245
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,319
rudderless.
No leader stepped up and

1246
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:54,479
eventually descended to what it
is because then it becomes a

1247
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,720
power vacuum, and the people who
can exert power take it over.

1248
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,760
Yeah, but there was a point
there where I was filled with

1249
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,880
hope for what it could be as
kind of a new path forward of

1250
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,520
understanding among many
different types of people.

1251
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,800
Well, when I said that it, it
always descends, you know, to

1252
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:15,640
the, to the bottom, that's sort
of what I meant is like you

1253
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,600
said, a leader didn't step up.
But generally when the leaders

1254
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,120
step up, they're corrupt, you
know, they're, they're stepping

1255
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,960
up because that's the most
profitable spot to be in.

1256
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,560
That's where I can collect all
the money or whatever, whether

1257
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:31,560
it's a monarchy or a, you know,
a Republican or a Republic or a

1258
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:36,640
democracy or whatever it is that
leader is, is there, you know,

1259
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:39,240
because for a reason.
It's a power thing.

1260
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,520
It's a wealth thing, whatever it
is.

1261
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,760
And we saw that with BLM.
We saw it with some of the other

1262
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,240
ones.
The people inside it probably

1263
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,560
had the best intentions.
It's the people who did

1264
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,439
eventually organize it at the
top didn't have the best

1265
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:57,880
intentions probably and there.
Was no organization or top until

1266
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,280
there was no, until none
developed until people stepped

1267
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,320
up.
So that whole movement appeared

1268
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,720
to be almost leaderless in
general.

1269
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,440
So it's really interesting to
see which direction would go.

1270
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:11,840
But then they came up with
their, you know, 18 points of

1271
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,960
priorities and I'm like kind of
a lot of points, guys.

1272
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:18,920
How about just starting here
something?

1273
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:21,880
Yeah, start with two or three.
You know, Let's keep it simple

1274
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:23,280
guys.
They couldn't agree on it

1275
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:24,800
either.
Yeah, yeah.

1276
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,920
So it was interesting.
I just, I think if you leave

1277
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:32,680
people, you know, on their own,
you know, without leaders and

1278
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,640
without rules and without laws
that protect you and protect

1279
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:39,480
others around you and stuff, it
just gets messy really fast, you

1280
01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:43,680
know, And it starts out lovely.
Oh, this is so great, having no

1281
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:46,360
laws.
And then, you know, and then it

1282
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,200
gets messy, you know, really,
really fast, you know?

1283
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,120
Yeah.
I mean, I think we only need

1284
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,000
really one law is you can do
whatever you want as long as it

1285
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,240
doesn't infringe upon what
anybody else wants.

1286
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,480
And if you look at it, all law
is almost that rule.

1287
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,200
It is, well almost all law,
let's say in the US just to make

1288
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:07,440
an easy understanding is it's
the the benefit of society or

1289
01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:09,920
the rights of society versus the
right of the individual that's.

1290
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,200
All the challenge is this
though, and the reason that

1291
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,200
there's 1010 bazillion lawyers
out there is it's down to

1292
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:20,520
interpretation, you know, and so
we pay lawyers to interpret.

1293
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,400
What did that actually mean?
You know, is this guy right or

1294
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,640
is this guy right?
And you know, you fight for days

1295
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:28,520
over the interpretation of the
law.

1296
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:33,560
And so yeah, it's interesting.
Like I always like when I see

1297
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,200
those things start cuz it's
like, look, a love fest.

1298
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,280
And then before you know it,
they're fucking burning

1299
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:42,160
buildings down and killing each
other with pitchforks and stuff.

1300
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,120
I mean, it's like it just never
works out.

1301
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:50,240
We need, we need bumpers, you
know, we need the human race.

1302
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,360
We need bumpers, we need rules.
We.

1303
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:54,600
Certainly do.
You know, my hope was it was a

1304
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,520
re evaluation of what those
bumpers are.

1305
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,400
Yeah.
You know, I mean, their main

1306
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,200
thing they were asking for was
police accountability.

1307
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,040
Stop beating up black people and
killing them.

1308
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,280
And I mean, I'm going to tell
you that I think that's a

1309
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,080
reasonable request.
Yeah.

1310
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:12,400
Yeah, it, it certainly is, you
know, and again, then then it

1311
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,560
comes down to, you know,
interpretation again, because,

1312
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,720
you know, are more black people
getting beat up when they're

1313
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,000
getting arrested because white
cops hate black people?

1314
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,400
Or is it because more black
people are committing crime and

1315
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:31,720
therefore the numbers are skewed
that direction?

1316
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,080
Well, I have to say that.
And I think it's a combination

1317
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:35,160
of all of it.
I.

1318
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:38,640
Mean, I think as far as this
whole movement went, there was,

1319
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:44,960
I mean the the actual catalyst
was on video of them doing

1320
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:46,640
exactly that.
That was not open to

1321
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,080
interpretation and it was a
whole chain of them and finally

1322
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:53,960
1 broke God, finally 1 broke the
camels back and that's why that

1323
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,280
occurred.
It was a really reasonable

1324
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,200
request and I don't think they
actually received my time.

1325
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:03,600
Yeah, no, I can basically agree
with you.

1326
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,760
And you know, it's just, I've,
I've all, I've never, I'm

1327
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:10,120
Canadian, you know, we, we, we
like laws.

1328
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,560
We, we, you know, it's so funny
when I go up to my house in

1329
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:18,320
Canada, nobody goes like 2
kilometers over the speed limit

1330
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,360
except me, you know, and they're
like, there's that lunatic in

1331
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:25,960
the BMW with Florida plates on
it, you know, we massive maniac,

1332
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:31,560
lunatic nut job.
And but, you know, like if it

1333
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:35,800
says 50, they mean 60, you know,
they don't really mean. 50 and

1334
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:40,240
now I'm I'm AI want to admit
this like we don't have traffic

1335
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:43,960
enforcement in Seattle.
I've got fast cars and all I do

1336
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,040
is I just hit the pedal to the
floor on the highway.

1337
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:49,000
I'm going to work.
It's a two mile drive.

1338
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:52,600
You know, I mean, I usually
don't break 100 or 120.

1339
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,120
Yeah, but that is exactly the
thing without enforcement.

1340
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,120
And I think that's a, it's a
cultural thing.

1341
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,160
And just about anywhere it
starts war, baby.

1342
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,760
And we're testing boundaries.
Yeah, we have the boundaries

1343
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,120
right now in this country and
Canada.

1344
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:10,320
Canadians were brought up better
perhaps, or at least a little

1345
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,200
bit more understanding that
you're a member of society

1346
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,680
rather than, you know, the
American dream or an individual.

1347
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:18,800
We're seeking it for ourselves.
So it's a very I've.

1348
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,880
Always thought that.
I've always thought that.

1349
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,120
I've always thought like ever
since I came here.

1350
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,960
I've been here over 30 years now
and I still feel like we have

1351
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,160
too many rights, you know?
We just have way too many rights

1352
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,400
here, you know?
And I go back to Canada and it's

1353
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,560
like, what do you mean I can't
have 4 handguns on my belt or

1354
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:39,680
whatever, you know?
Like why, Why I have my rights,

1355
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,040
you know, How dare you?
But, and I'm not anti gun.

1356
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,000
I'm not pro gun.
I'm not any of those things.

1357
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,040
I'm so much in the middle of all
of this stuff.

1358
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:50,600
Like it, it just.
I'm not a political guy really

1359
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,680
at the end of the day, you know,
I'm just not I'm.

1360
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:54,600
Choosing that path right now
myself.

1361
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,880
Yeah, I'm not a political guy,
you know, I'm a businessman.

1362
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,600
So generally I'll vote One
Direction over the other

1363
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,040
direction just because it's,
it's a little more probusiness

1364
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,360
or whatever.
But, you know, none of the other

1365
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:10,320
stuff like all the all the
issues that become central in

1366
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:14,120
every election, OK, they're
important, but I'm not going to

1367
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:17,600
pick a president based on that.
You know, so I've gone and

1368
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,320
lobbied in the Capitol years ago
for what's called the SAFE

1369
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:25,440
Banking Act, which is basically
allowing a bit more banking for

1370
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:27,800
cannabis, a bit of change in the
laws.

1371
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,080
And it was clear that nothing
gets done there now.

1372
01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:33,480
So that gets you a little bit
apathetic, a little bit

1373
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:35,080
frustrated with politics in
general.

1374
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:39,840
So in Washington state, one of
my attorneys here at my firm is

1375
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:41,400
the second rating Democrat in
the House.

1376
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,320
So every year I go and spend a
day with him, go to private

1377
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,560
lobbying meetings, go to
stakeholders, laws get written,

1378
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,840
bills get or bills get written,
laws get voted on, bills get

1379
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:55,800
voted on.
And I was so blown away at how

1380
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,840
effective it was, at least at a
local level of actually seeing

1381
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:04,400
change and horse trading and
laws getting passed and signing

1382
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:08,160
these bills, getting signed and
passing the law and the movement

1383
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,120
of laws between different
stakeholders.

1384
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,320
For instance, there was one
private meeting I was in where

1385
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,160
it was the Police Department and
stakeholders from a number of

1386
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:18,520
different Police Department.
And then there was some

1387
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,320
organization that was obviously
and typical or polar opposite of

1388
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:25,640
them, and they were arguing
over, you know, new writing of a

1389
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:27,360
law.
And it was really interesting to

1390
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:30,200
see the politicians take both
sides and say, OK, how have we

1391
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:31,880
tried this?
What do you guys think about

1392
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:33,360
this?
And really working through it

1393
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,840
and passing it into laws.
I was just filled with again,

1394
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,560
hope that maybe shit does work.
Sometimes, yeah, that's shocking

1395
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:44,040
to me because I don't get that
feeling, you know, And I had, I

1396
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,840
had Joe on the podcast a couple
months ago and man, was he

1397
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,720
bitter about, I can't remember,
but it was something related to

1398
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,400
nothing gets done in the
government.

1399
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,520
Money in politics, they a lot of
money in politics in Washington,

1400
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,720
except for certain things like
Cosmo threw a ton of money into

1401
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,400
the liquor industry here and
they had to do multiple

1402
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:03,520
initiatives.
So they were deep in to get

1403
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:07,280
things done.
So we used to have privatized,

1404
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:10,400
I'm sorry, public liquor stores,
kind of like Pennsylvania still

1405
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:14,560
probably has.
And so we have 334 liquor stores

1406
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,920
in the state of Washington.
They're all government run.

1407
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:20,800
So Costco fought and fought and
fought so they can sell liquor

1408
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,040
in Costcos.
And eventually they won.

1409
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:27,800
But the first set of bills, the
first initiative didn't pass, so

1410
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:31,000
they rewrote it, and now we have
the highest liquor taxes in the

1411
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,720
country and you have to be
10,000 square feet or more

1412
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:36,560
unless you're one of the legacy
stores now.

1413
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,080
Wow.
In order to sell liquor, there's

1414
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,800
a bunch of other exceptions, but
it just basically put the power

1415
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:43,520
in grocery stores hands.
Yeah.

1416
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:45,040
Grocery stores in Costco.
Yeah.

1417
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,440
Yeah.
Corporate direction and wasn't

1418
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:49,960
the best for the people
necessarily.

1419
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,040
Yeah, yeah, Canada's the same.
I, I don't know what the laws

1420
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,440
are in Canada right now, but
like growing up, you had to go

1421
01:17:56,440 --> 01:18:00,840
to the Alberta, the ALCB store,
Alberta Liquor Control Board

1422
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:03,720
store.
And that's where you bought

1423
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:05,280
beer, that's where you bought
alcohol.

1424
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,280
You couldn't, couldn't buy it
anywhere else.

1425
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:12,320
But now I know there's private
liquor stores up there but I

1426
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:15,520
don't know how the law works so
I'm not sure.

1427
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:17,680
No idea.
I used to work.

1428
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,560
We used to drive from Cleveland
up over to through Detroit to

1429
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:23,960
Windsor to to go drinking at 19.
Yeah, of course.

1430
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,520
Yeah, everybody did.
I, I remember when I first moved

1431
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:30,880
to the USI lived in Chicago for
a little while with my then wife

1432
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:34,160
and.
And people used to always tell

1433
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:35,600
me, Oh yeah, I've been to
Canada.

1434
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,760
And I said, let me guess, you
know, you went through the

1435
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:41,000
tunnel or whatever over to
Windsor to watch strippers and

1436
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,920
drink beer and.
What you guys do is everything

1437
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,520
else in Canada, hockey players.
Hockey players, yeah, we got

1438
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,400
hockey.
We got hockey in Canada, man,

1439
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:54,120
Last night there was a game on
here, Florida versus New Jersey,

1440
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:58,240
The craziest fight I have ever
seen in a hockey game.

1441
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:02,200
Like just Bang Bang bang, just
beating the hell out of each.

1442
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:05,320
Other anymore.
Oh my God, these two.

1443
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:08,160
It's literally one of the
craziest fights I've seen in

1444
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,120
years.
It was just it went for like

1445
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,520
probably a minute straight of
just non-stop punching.

1446
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:17,440
You know, it was a boxing match.
It was crazy wild fight.

1447
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,320
We have the Seattle cracking
over here then just a couple

1448
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,680
years ago, and yeah, everybody
has season tickets and

1449
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,680
everybody's giving away tickets
and there's never any fights.

1450
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:28,920
Like, what the hell happened to
hockey?

1451
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,480
The first time I watched hockey,
I was doing the lighting rig.

1452
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,720
I was doing a lighting install
and you know, I just set up the

1453
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,280
the console and I ran a number
of games.

1454
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,760
Didn't really watch hockey.
I didn't grew up in Canada.

1455
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,600
Yeah.
They threw a guy, threw the

1456
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:46,040
glass onto people's laps.
I'm like, I got it.

1457
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:47,480
That's my love.
This game.

1458
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,280
What the hell was that?
That is so funny.

1459
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:54,200
That's so funny.
When I first moved here, I I

1460
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:58,160
worked for Martin Lighting's
distributor Trackman at the

1461
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,680
time, and it was owned by a
French guy named Gerard Cohen.

1462
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:05,520
And so when we got a hockey team
down here, it was like a year

1463
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:09,080
after I moved here and we get
this hockey team, the Florida

1464
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,120
Panthers.
And he bought season tickets, 4

1465
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:15,400
tickets, and I was the token
hockey guy, so he'd bring me to

1466
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,280
all the games with him and his
two sons.

1467
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,200
And Marcel, what is happening
Marcel?

1468
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,120
What is happening, Marcel?
So I constantly had to explain

1469
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:28,040
the rules to the three of them.
And then a fight broke out and

1470
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:29,880
he's looking at me and he's like
myself.

1471
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:31,040
What are they doing?
What?

1472
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:32,800
Why?
Why is the guy letting them

1473
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:34,200
fight?
What is this?

1474
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,320
This is barbaric.
It's crazy.

1475
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:40,120
And within three or four games
after that, they were like,

1476
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:41,560
kick.
Him kick his ass hit.

1477
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:45,000
Him, you know they were, they
were like cheering for the

1478
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:46,200
fights, right?
It was hilarious.

1479
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:48,840
It is the best part of hockey.
It's like NASCAR.

1480
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,080
The best part is the crashes.
What else is there?

1481
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,320
You're going around in a circle.
I kind of love hockey, so I

1482
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,440
don't, I, I tolerate fighting to
put up with the rest of the

1483
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:00,040
game.
But I know a lot of people do

1484
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:03,720
like the hockey fights and I, I
don't generally look away when

1485
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,480
there is one.
It's pretty fun, but it is a bit

1486
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:08,080
barbaric.
Like when you think about it,

1487
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:12,920
it's 2024 and we've still got a
sport that allows fist fights in

1488
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,040
it, right?
It's pretty funny.

1489
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,920
It's what football is.
Football is a wage of war at the

1490
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,800
line of scrimmage, right?
Yeah, it's kind of a modern.

1491
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,680
Day warfare.
But the more they they lighten

1492
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,920
it up, the more boring the games
get.

1493
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:31,000
Like it's, you know, the fact
that quarterbacks can play till

1494
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:33,280
they're 50 now because you can't
touch them.

1495
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:34,880
It's crazy.
Except Tua.

1496
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,320
Tua gets a freaking concussion
every week, you know?

1497
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:41,400
But other than Tua, you know
quarterbacks can play until they

1498
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,080
can't walk anymore, basically,
right?

1499
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:46,120
Yeah.
I mean, there's a good and bad

1500
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,280
side of that, but I appreciate
it, I guess.

1501
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:53,120
So we don't have head injuries,
but I was thinking on my 21st, I

1502
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:57,760
was at this bar called the Hick
in freaking Cornfield, Ohio, the

1503
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,200
Hickory.
And I ran into this football

1504
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,520
Browns player named Bubba, who's
gotten famous since for selling,

1505
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:07,600
I don't know, boneless ribs or
something like that.

1506
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,480
And he's like, this game's
gotten soft.

1507
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:13,480
I guess he must have been a
linebacker, I'm guessing based

1508
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:14,520
on the story because of this
game.

1509
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,360
Down soft.
Usually what you do is you look

1510
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:18,800
at them, you take your finger
and you stick it right in his

1511
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,000
eye across the line of
scrimmage, and he's still

1512
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:22,760
looking.
You take your other finger and

1513
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:29,080
stick it in his other eye.
Oh my God, yeah, I, I saw a

1514
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:32,400
thing about rugby ones that they
did shit like that, like where

1515
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:37,520
they would just, you know, do
things to you in that scrum just

1516
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,920
to make you feel the worst
possible pain you could possibly

1517
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,120
feel.
And I'm like, what kind of sport

1518
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:46,520
is that?
Like one I need to watch.

1519
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:48,960
Meanwhile, I'm a big UFC fan,
Right.

1520
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,320
So.
There's a fight coming up,

1521
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,320
right?
Ice and Yeah Friday.

1522
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:55,240
Is it Friday?
Yeah.

1523
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,680
I mean, Mike Tyson against that
annoying dude, right?

1524
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,160
Yeah, Jake Paul.
Yeah, You know, and I'm on the

1525
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,240
fence with that because I, I was
a huge Mike Tyson fan.

1526
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,440
I think he's going to kill him.
And I mean, it's hard.

1527
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:10,400
It's so weird to say that
because the guy's 58 years old

1528
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,800
or whatever, but I've watched
his training videos.

1529
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,480
He's a machine still, man.
And it's still Mike Tyson in

1530
01:23:17,480 --> 01:23:20,760
there somewhere, you know?
Strongest punch in the history

1531
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,480
of the sport, no doubt.
I don't even know if Muhammad

1532
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:26,000
Ali would have beat him in his
prime.

1533
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:28,960
Yeah, but how does he take a, a
punch?

1534
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:30,000
You know, like, that's the
thing.

1535
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:32,240
He's 58.
You know, it's got to hurt to

1536
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,880
get hit now.
So like, if Jake can get at him

1537
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:36,800
and Jake's taller and longer
than him.

1538
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:40,840
So if Jake can can hit him, you
know, that might cause some real

1539
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:45,120
problems for for Tyson.
But if Jake can't get to him,

1540
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,520
Tyson is going to beat the This
guy's going to regret, you know,

1541
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:52,160
talking smack to the toughest
guy ever in boxing.

1542
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:54,280
Yeah, I would.
I'd like to see that.

1543
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:56,520
Looks like watching the the the
fight.

1544
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:59,200
It's Friday, you said.
Yeah, Friday night on Netflix.

1545
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,240
Yeah.
Which is why I got to get a

1546
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:03,920
streaming platform I don't know
here.

1547
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:06,600
You don't have Netflix?
No, I would have Netflix.

1548
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,920
Because everyone has Netflix.
No, not everyone, apparently.

1549
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,480
I don't know this whole thing.
Netflix was great Once Upon a

1550
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:14,040
time.
This has been needed for

1551
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:15,760
forever.
But there's like 50 streaming

1552
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:19,200
networks.
I give up so whatever you know I

1553
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,120
mean I do pay for that YouTube
whatever.

1554
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:27,160
So I don't have ads cuz it's
every video yeah so they got my

1555
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:31,360
money out of that and Spotify
got a little bit of money, but

1556
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:33,080
yeah well.
You can call me and I'll give

1557
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:34,760
you my password and you can
become.

1558
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:35,960
Could you just tell it to me
now?

1559
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:39,520
You can you can become part of
my family on Friday night.

1560
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:41,240
Yeah.
Let me just put it up on the

1561
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:44,160
screen here for you.
Yeah.

1562
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:49,720
So so back, back.
I have a question, what the hell

1563
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,760
is going on with the
entertainment industry these

1564
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:53,600
days?
Why is everybody crying?

1565
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:57,480
What the fuck happened to other
entire industry?

1566
01:24:57,480 --> 01:25:00,680
Or is are we just going to keep
shrinking in size here and not

1567
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:04,040
getting as many gigs?
Festivals are going out, the out

1568
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,920
of are just disappearing
concerts.

1569
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:10,160
I mean, is Ticketmaster killing
everything is what the Hell's

1570
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:15,560
going on here?
So yes, a lot of that stuff.

1571
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:20,640
So I mean, it's a weird moment
right now because I think we are

1572
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,480
suffering.
This year I think was a bit of a

1573
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:24,320
hangover from the last two
years.

1574
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:28,840
You know, the last two years,
like I kept saying to people

1575
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:32,680
that even idiots I know in our
industry, we're buying new

1576
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,480
sports cars and new boats and
new buildings and new houses and

1577
01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:39,200
stuff.
And yet my business was pretty

1578
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:41,880
flat.
You know, and I consider myself

1579
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,360
a pretty smart guy, but I'm
looking around and everybody

1580
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:48,280
around me is just going
gangbusters, right?

1581
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,560
Like they, they're doing more
shows than they should be doing

1582
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:54,240
and people are just throwing
money at them.

1583
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:57,840
And so it was pretty easy for a
little while there.

1584
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:02,760
And then I think it kind of went
back to a version of normal.

1585
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:08,320
And what we had was probably a
few too many companies, maybe a

1586
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:13,000
few too many brands who all
succeeded very well for a couple

1587
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:14,560
of years there.
And we're going to start seeing

1588
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:18,920
some of the manufacturers having
trouble again like they did pre

1589
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:23,360
COVID and during COVID.
And so there's a bit of that.

1590
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,480
I'm seeing something even worse
though.

1591
01:26:27,480 --> 01:26:30,480
For the past couple of months,
I'm really like, I'm seeing

1592
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:35,640
companies closing their doors.
I'm starting to see big layoffs

1593
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:40,640
happening in our industry again.
You know, a lot of companies

1594
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:44,520
losing money, like basically
doing the same number of shows,

1595
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:46,840
but now they can't even make a
profit.

1596
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:52,640
They can't even break even.
And so, you know, I think we

1597
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:55,720
need to go back to some version
of normalcy and hopefully that's

1598
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,520
what next year brings.
Like, I don't know, what do you

1599
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:00,280
think?
I think normalcy is dead.

1600
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:03,280
I think what happened, I'll give
you a little anecdote here.

1601
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:08,240
I used to go to the nightclubs
345 times a week for 20 years.

1602
01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:12,280
And one day I woke up.
I was like, wait a second, I

1603
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,480
don't even fucking like
nightclubs, what am I doing?

1604
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:18,880
But it was a cool thing to do.
And I think everybody goes out.

1605
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:22,080
You go and see a show, yeah,
take in a movie, you do this

1606
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,560
entertainment thing.
And COVID hit and people had to

1607
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,640
sit at home.
And I think once COVID ended,

1608
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:30,280
there was a huge burst back to
say, OK, I could go out again

1609
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,360
and do go to festivals, go to
shows, what have you.

1610
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:34,680
And then they're like, then you
know what?

1611
01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:38,400
I was perfectly fine sitting on
my ass at home with my friends.

1612
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:42,320
So I think it's kind of like,
I'm downtown here and commercial

1613
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:45,440
real estate's broken and it's
never coming back.

1614
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:47,760
I'm getting offices at a
quarter.

1615
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,080
We're just about to get new
offices four times the size of

1616
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:53,200
our current ones at probably the
same price as what I'm paying in

1617
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:54,120
rent now.
Wow.

1618
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:56,880
And it's just broken.
They're trying to convert

1619
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:59,360
buildings into residential
because nobody, nobody has to be

1620
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:00,520
downtown.
You work from home.

1621
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:02,240
Hey, I'm getting the same work
done.

1622
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:04,600
I'm getting more work done.
I'm working less.

1623
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:07,160
I'm in my pajamas.
Yeah, I'm never going back.

1624
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:10,480
Well, that is actually one
change that I think has been a

1625
01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:13,120
really positive change.
I, my company was totally remote

1626
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,760
before COVID, long before years
before COVID.

1627
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:21,520
But I like that companies are
going, hey, we're actually a

1628
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:25,240
little more efficient when
we're, when our staff are, are

1629
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:28,400
remote and, and working from
home and whatever.

1630
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,520
And you're not spending all that
money for real estate that

1631
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,640
nobody really wants to be in
anyways.

1632
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:37,360
And people aren't on the roads
all day and the streets aren't

1633
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:38,960
as full and all of that kind of
stuff.

1634
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:42,720
So that's a good thing.
But you know, as far as the, the

1635
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:45,560
not going to clubs or not going
to shows anymore.

1636
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,040
So I think one of the things
that happened when we came out

1637
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:52,600
of COVID, the appetite was so
big that you had theater bands

1638
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:55,200
that were now playing in arenas.
You had arena bands that were

1639
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,160
now playing in stadiums, you had
club bands that were in

1640
01:28:58,160 --> 01:28:59,800
theaters.
Everybody sort of moved up a

1641
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:03,440
level or two, right?
And the appetite was so big that

1642
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:07,040
they were all selling.
And so then all of a sudden this

1643
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,040
year, especially the beginning
of this year, we started seeing

1644
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:14,080
some some wrinkles in that model
where some bands were either

1645
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,880
moving back to theaters from
arenas or back to arenas from

1646
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:20,200
stadiums or whatever because
they weren't selling out

1647
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:25,000
anymore.
And, and so that part of that

1648
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:28,640
was greed at the very top level,
some of the companies you

1649
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:32,280
mentioned and others.
And some of it I think was

1650
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,600
necessity because there were no
arenas.

1651
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,600
And so they had to go to
stadiums because stadiums were

1652
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:40,200
sitting still and let's use
those instead.

1653
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:45,040
And, and so where's it all
going?

1654
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:50,240
Well, if you listen to Live
Nation, they will tell you that

1655
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:53,040
we're still just scratching the
surface.

1656
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:59,320
And he actually, Rapino wrote a,
a pretty or did a pretty cool

1657
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:03,240
article about all of this when
he was asked, do you think, you

1658
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:06,280
know, there's still growth in
ticket sales?

1659
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:10,560
And he said, here's the thing.
These artists have become so big

1660
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:15,560
on social media that starting
with COVID especially, they've

1661
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,320
gotten so big on social media.
Some of these artists, many of

1662
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,400
these artists have 10 million
followers.

1663
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,680
All we have to do is sell
tickets to 5% of them.

1664
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,680
And so if you look at it that
way, the audience has gotten so

1665
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:33,160
much bigger that, you know,
there's not going to be a

1666
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:38,400
shortage of, of need for shows
and for companies to provide for

1667
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:43,120
those shows and stuff.
So I just think that we sold a

1668
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:46,120
lot of lights and a lot of sound
equipment and a lot of video

1669
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:51,520
equipment in 21 and 22.
I think it's kind of full now.

1670
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,520
Like everybody's got enough gear
for the most part.

1671
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,160
Like everyone says, I've got to
get shortage of gear.

1672
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:00,560
Well, those are companies that
are are accustomed to cross

1673
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,280
renting or whatever, but
companies who are doing their

1674
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:05,880
own shows for the most part have
enough gear right now.

1675
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:10,320
And so I think that that's going
to cause a problem at the top on

1676
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:14,760
the manufacturing end of things.
I think it's going to allow some

1677
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:16,960
of those companies because
remember, they had to buy all

1678
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,320
this gear in 21 and 22.
And so they're stuck with all

1679
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:23,040
those payments, lease payments.
A lot of them, you know, are

1680
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:26,000
addicted to leasing.
And so they've got all these

1681
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:28,440
lease payments on this gear.
And when you have a slow month,

1682
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:30,320
you know, that's painful and all
that stuff.

1683
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:32,920
I think for a while they're
going to actually be able to

1684
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:35,840
sort of mellow out a bit and not
have to buy gear at the level

1685
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:37,280
that they did for a couple
years.

1686
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,040
Hopefully that allows more
people to be profitable.

1687
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:42,760
And you know, I think the
companies that have hurt the

1688
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:46,520
worst are the the small to mid
sized ones that are call it, you

1689
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:51,720
know, three to to $20 million.
Those are the companies I think

1690
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:53,880
that are having the most trouble
right now.

1691
01:31:54,480 --> 01:31:57,760
I think the big ones are still
doing OK, even though one of the

1692
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:01,000
biggest ones told me a couple
weeks ago that this was the

1693
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:04,120
worst year they've had in in a
while other than COVID.

1694
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:10,200
And so yeah, it it just feels
like people are doing more work

1695
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:13,040
for less money right now is what
it really comes down to.

1696
01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:15,040
I guess you could tell them
there's always the wedding

1697
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:19,640
industry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1698
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:23,600
Well, I just, I, I don't know if
any of this is coming back full

1699
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:26,440
bore, which is just a changed
society.

1700
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:30,160
I yeah, I don't know, I don't
know, like, cuz you know, I

1701
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:33,560
talked to, I spent some time
with, with a friend of mine

1702
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:38,880
who's an account exec for a
large lighting firm and he said

1703
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:42,320
his pipeline for the next 18
months is the biggest he's ever

1704
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:45,800
had.
So unless everybody cancels all

1705
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:49,000
at once or unless we go to war
against China or something

1706
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:50,560
terrible, knock on my wooden
head.

1707
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:55,640
Hopefully that doesn't happen.
But you know, it, a lot of it

1708
01:32:55,640 --> 01:33:00,080
depends on that stuff, you know,
and, and you know, we had to get

1709
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:03,080
past this election.
I think in our industry, I've

1710
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:07,800
always downplayed how important
an election is or whether an

1711
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:09,640
election has an impact on
business.

1712
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,360
This one did and you can't deny
it.

1713
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:16,000
It's did happened.
There was a huge impact on our

1714
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:18,640
business.
And I think now that the

1715
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:21,320
election's over, regardless of
who was going to win it, it

1716
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:24,040
needed to be over so that we can
just kind of get back to work

1717
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:25,960
again.
So we're going to see some of

1718
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:28,680
that.
I think we'll see a resurgence a

1719
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:31,480
bit.
Yeah, Well, I guess we're amazed

1720
01:33:31,480 --> 01:33:33,960
to be seen.
I think not to delve too much

1721
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:38,880
into any type of politics, but
business likes predictability.

1722
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,360
And I think we're about to have
a lot of unpredictability or at

1723
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:45,720
least unforeseeability, which
means how do we plan for it?

1724
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:49,600
For instance, I was about to
rent a place that's five times

1725
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:52,880
the size of mine, penthouse,
4000 square feet of outdoor deck

1726
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:55,280
overlooking the Puget Sound,
which is our largest body of

1727
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,120
water here.
And I'm like, I don't know what

1728
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:01,240
the next several years are going
to handle economically.

1729
01:34:01,480 --> 01:34:04,000
I can't prepare for that.
I'm about to sign $2,000,000 on

1730
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:05,440
lease payments for the next 10
years.

1731
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:08,600
I don't think so, which would
have been 5 million four years

1732
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:09,680
ago.
So that's something.

1733
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:13,840
So we've definitely downsized
and gone into more of a stable

1734
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,720
route and said, OK, you know,
we're experiencing fast growth,

1735
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:22,240
let's not overshoot it till we
see it and we'll figure it out

1736
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:23,880
as we come.
And we'll just start knocking

1737
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:28,240
holster walls and small offices.
I understand why you say those

1738
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:30,720
things, but I tend to completely
disagree with you.

1739
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:35,880
I think that I think that we're
going to see, you know, less

1740
01:34:35,880 --> 01:34:39,360
clamps on our throat to not be
able to do business.

1741
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:41,720
We're going to see.
You you say that.

1742
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:45,120
However, the issue is this is
all guesswork.

1743
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:49,160
We have no freaking proof on
exactly what's about to happen

1744
01:34:49,440 --> 01:34:50,720
and how that it.
Happened 4.

1745
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:53,600
Years ago.
It happened four years ago, it

1746
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:55,280
happened.
It happened four years ago.

1747
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:55,920
How was that?
No, No.

1748
01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:59,320
But before that, before that,
for the first, for the first

1749
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:02,000
three years, you know, for the
first three years, it got much

1750
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,160
easier to do business.
Taxes went down.

1751
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:06,360
Costs went.
Down.

1752
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:10,760
Profits went up.
And so, yeah, I mean, obviously

1753
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:12,480
we're on different sides of the
fence, so we're going to have

1754
01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:16,080
different views of this.
I I don't completely disagree

1755
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:19,920
with your views.
I just have a positive feeling.

1756
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:22,360
So I'm cup is half full, your
cup is half empty.

1757
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:25,560
And I think we'll meet somewhere
in the middle with, you know, a

1758
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:31,680
beer.
So, yeah, I mean, I just, I like

1759
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:33,480
predictability in business.
Yeah.

1760
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:37,840
And when it comes down to, you
know, what's being done at the

1761
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,280
federal state level, that
affects me a bit more because

1762
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:42,880
now I've got to adjust for laws.
Yeah, yeah.

1763
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:45,440
Or what courts are going to do
all the way up to the Supreme

1764
01:35:45,440 --> 01:35:47,480
Court.
Yeah, affect all of our cases

1765
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:50,160
going on.
Yeah, now that I I can

1766
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:53,880
completely understand that.
I just think for our business, I

1767
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:57,960
think we're going to have a
pretty good climate as long as

1768
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:00,640
we don't get into conflicts.
I think if we get into

1769
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:05,280
conflicts, you know, that's
going to be problematic because

1770
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:08,560
our economy is already, you
know, teetering on, on death.

1771
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:13,000
And I'd like to see us paying
back some of our debt as opposed

1772
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:18,840
to, you know, adding to it.
And and, you know, I believe in

1773
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:20,360
business.
You know, I believe in

1774
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:22,360
businesses.
I believe in business owners.

1775
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:24,440
I believe in entrepreneurs like
you and me.

1776
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:28,800
And because you're a rare
entrepreneurial lawyer, I know

1777
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:31,400
all entrepreneurs think they're
lawyers, but you actually are.

1778
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,480
Or think they're, I should say.
I know all lawyers think they're

1779
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:36,880
entrepreneurs, but but you
actually are one.

1780
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:42,080
And you know, I I believe in us,
you know, I believe in the fact

1781
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:46,000
that we're gonna, we're gonna do
some great things today for the

1782
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,240
next 4 years, for the next 40
years.

1783
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:51,520
You know, I probably won't
because I'll be gone, but yeah,

1784
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,880
so.
To the big Canada and the sky.

1785
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:56,560
Yeah, to the big Canada in the
tie.

1786
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:58,240
Exactly.
You know, it's funny.

1787
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:02,120
Lawyers aren't entrepreneurs
because the type of person that

1788
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:04,440
goes to law school does it as a
safe job.

1789
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:07,400
They are risk adverse.
So it's opposite.

1790
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:10,600
I went to law school because
somebody dared me to apply and I

1791
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:12,440
applied to one law school on a
dare.

1792
01:37:12,440 --> 01:37:14,600
They gave me a scholarship and
I'm like, OK, cool.

1793
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:19,000
Wait, what do lawyers do?
Yeah, very different path.

1794
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:22,760
Yeah, that's hilarious.
Well, but I mean, you're also

1795
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:24,800
Indian, so you got to be a
doctor or a lawyer.

1796
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:25,720
Terror.
Now the.

1797
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:29,800
Lawyer was just playing with.
My parents, yeah, that's true.

1798
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:31,160
That's true.
You're supposed to be in the

1799
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:33,560
medicine world, right?
Absolutely.

1800
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,880
Although, you know, nowadays,
like, you know, I would say

1801
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:41,600
there's a huge number of Indian
entrepreneurs, like, you know,

1802
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:43,880
you guys are some of the
smartest people on earth.

1803
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:48,720
And, and I do business with lots
of of Indians on the tech side

1804
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:53,560
of things because they're just
friggin smart people and really

1805
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:58,400
hungry and really on it.
You know, there's an AI guy that

1806
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:02,120
I follow.
He is part of something called

1807
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:03,920
growth School and I forget his
name.

1808
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:05,840
It's very Indian.
He's in India.

1809
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:09,320
He's very Indian.
But it's, it's just, it's not

1810
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:11,040
like, you know, Gupta or
something.

1811
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:14,840
It's something much longer and
more difficult to remember and

1812
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:20,360
so but one of the smartest guys
on AI that I know and just a

1813
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:23,200
really, really super bright guy.
But yeah.

1814
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:25,560
I think some of that is that
there's a billion and a half

1815
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:27,600
people there.
So some of the best is the ones

1816
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:32,280
that get out of their education
is very prominent and pushed

1817
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:37,160
with Indians as well as first or
second generation Indians grown

1818
01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:40,600
here have that safety net that
their parents didn't have.

1819
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:42,800
So they're able to go a bit
further with entrepreneurship

1820
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:45,800
and risk where people that move
from India that did it, let's

1821
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:49,080
say a generation ago, like my
parents, they've got no safety

1822
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:50,800
net.
There's nothing if they only

1823
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:52,920
have 200 bucks to their name and
they lose if they're out on the

1824
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:55,680
street and a country that
doesn't really accept them where

1825
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:59,720
my dad came to Oklahoma in the
60s, you know, it's a different

1826
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,360
thing.
Yeah, it caused you to be risk

1827
01:39:02,360 --> 01:39:05,520
adverse, but you would still
business and do your children

1828
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:09,600
and go be a doctor, whatever
gives them a lot more risk

1829
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:11,360
tolerance.
Yeah, Yeah.

1830
01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:13,480
That's wild.
Yeah.

1831
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:18,960
So what didn't we cover?
I mean, we've covered a lot.

1832
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,360
I mean, I could, I could talk
your ear off about what have you

1833
01:39:23,160 --> 01:39:25,120
because.
Well, no, I mean on our

1834
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:28,320
industry.
So, you know, again, we're not

1835
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:31,760
in a very litigious industry,
but where are you seeing

1836
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:35,040
problems in our industry or
potential problems coming

1837
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:38,960
besides AI, you know, impacting
everyone's businesses and

1838
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,120
killing all our jobs or
whatever, but.

1839
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:44,960
Gear is definitely creating
major issues for that, the more

1840
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,680
well established brands, but
it's also giving access to less

1841
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:52,000
expensive products to the end
user or the businesses.

1842
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:54,120
So it's a really tough call
there, right?

1843
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:57,240
I mean, nothing's like a Play
Packy optic, but nothing's the

1844
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:58,960
cost of it either.
Yeah.

1845
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:02,080
So that's a tough situation.
I really think it's the

1846
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:05,680
entertainment industry.
The just the decrease of shows,

1847
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:07,600
I think is not coming back very
easily.

1848
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:10,080
And you say everybody's got the
gear.

1849
01:40:11,160 --> 01:40:14,000
I mean, unless they keep
innovating, companies like

1850
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:15,880
Martin and Play Packy aren't
going to be selling any new

1851
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:16,760
gear.
Yeah.

1852
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:20,760
That's true.
Well, and as, as, as the, the

1853
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:24,760
what you called, I think China
lighting, the problem becomes

1854
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:27,200
bigger.
And you know, like you see these

1855
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,560
brands on Facebook marketplace
or you see them on Amazon or

1856
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:32,440
whatever.
I don't even remember the names

1857
01:40:32,440 --> 01:40:34,920
of the brands, but there's some
pretty popular ones that sell

1858
01:40:34,920 --> 01:40:39,680
direct and they're very low cost
and Joe's always on Facebook

1859
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:43,920
talking about them and stuff.
But the problem with a lot of

1860
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:47,360
those brands, especially the
ones that plagiarize other

1861
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:52,280
products, copy other products,
they take away the incentive to

1862
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:55,680
innovate.
You know, and it costs a lot of

1863
01:40:55,680 --> 01:40:59,760
money to come up with really
cool new technology and to test

1864
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:05,080
it and to perfect it and then,
you know, do all the tooling and

1865
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:08,120
then kick out a new product.
You're talking potentially

1866
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:09,640
hundreds of thousands of
dollars.

1867
01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:12,760
And then if you Kick It Out the
door and three months later

1868
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:17,680
there's one for 75% less money
being sold direct on Amazon or

1869
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:20,840
whatever, where's the incentive?
You know, you got to be able to

1870
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:22,720
collect your money back.
There isn't.

1871
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:27,440
I do legal work for LFI Laser
Fantasy International and

1872
01:41:27,440 --> 01:41:32,560
they've got they've had $200,000
RGB with the best optics I've

1873
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:36,120
ever seen in the size of a
reading of paper airtight.

1874
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:39,760
Just the most amazing stuff.
And I can get the same power

1875
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:42,640
output, quote quote power output
from China.

1876
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,400
Theirs is 200 grand for one of
these.

1877
01:41:45,440 --> 01:41:48,400
You know the really cool stuff.
I can get one from China for 250

1878
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:49,720
bucks with the.
Same.

1879
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:52,600
Loaded, you know, quote UN quote
power output.

1880
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:54,760
Wow, it's just batshit, you
know?

1881
01:41:55,480 --> 01:41:58,120
I mean, it might burn your
building down or whatever.

1882
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:01,960
But you know, you actually shoot
it in a block black box, it's

1883
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:05,840
actually shooting out many, many
watts over that all over the

1884
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:09,800
place in the infrareds spectrum
or the UV spectrum.

1885
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:15,040
Dangerous as shit, but it dies.
Put that into the hands of, you

1886
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:18,240
know, now I'm a wedding DJ and
my $250 laser is a 20 Watt or

1887
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:21,480
what have you.
Well, I know one of the big ones

1888
01:42:21,480 --> 01:42:24,040
too, the MA console like the,
you know, there's.

1889
01:42:24,080 --> 01:42:27,120
Teams, I was trying to have a
console even using the software

1890
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:28,880
right, they're 80 like the brand
and.

1891
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:32,440
Shit, yeah.
And you know, you can tell the

1892
01:42:32,440 --> 01:42:35,680
difference, but it looks close
enough when you're talking about

1893
01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:40,000
the difference between a $70,000
console and something that's 2

1894
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:43,720
or $3000.
And it does sort of the same

1895
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:47,880
thing, you know, that's.
Stability as well as function.

1896
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:50,240
Yeah, of course, of course,
yeah.

1897
01:42:50,440 --> 01:42:54,280
But I mean, I mean Campsis I
think is breaking that the

1898
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:56,920
market anyways, they've gone
since I got bought by was a

1899
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:00,320
trave at the bottom.
Yeah, it dropped the prices of

1900
01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:03,360
competent consoles so far.
And I like that was always a

1901
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:06,400
Campsis guy even when it was
still rough around the edges.

1902
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:10,400
I think it's a great, really
affordable console and platform

1903
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:11,600
to work with.
Yeah.

1904
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,840
But the problem is now it's
being sold on Amazon and

1905
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:17,920
Sweetwater and you know, all of
those types of places.

1906
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:22,120
Not that that's bad.
It's just I think if you're a

1907
01:43:22,120 --> 01:43:24,560
professional lighting company,
you're looking at that and

1908
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:27,440
going, I don't know that I want
to put that on the bid to this

1909
01:43:27,440 --> 01:43:30,360
church that I'm doing.
If they can go on Amazon and buy

1910
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:33,680
it for 40% less or whatever.
If you're selling that, if

1911
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:37,520
you're selling it, yeah.
So what I did is I was, I'd like

1912
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:40,840
to deal at one point and I just
set the footprint in Oregon

1913
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:43,040
where there's no sales tax.
I can undercut everyone else.

1914
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:45,840
Laws are a little bit different
now that yeah, yeah.

1915
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:49,080
It's not quite so easy now.
Well, and now you have.

1916
01:43:49,080 --> 01:43:52,480
The whatever they call it, the
Wayfair law, which I have to

1917
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:55,560
deal with on a daily basis with
a marketplace that I have.

1918
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:58,680
So yeah, it's, it's a wacky
world out there.

1919
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:01,480
But yeah, counterfeit product
has been going on like I started

1920
01:44:01,480 --> 01:44:05,880
working for Martin Lighting in
1991 and not.

1921
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:09,160
Long an era.
Not long after, Robo Scan was

1922
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:11,160
being copied in China.
Oh.

1923
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:15,400
Wow and they called it the
Martin Robo Scan but it said

1924
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:18,960
made in China somewhere and like
they were copying the track spot

1925
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:22,760
and it was funny because I
remember Rich I was at high end

1926
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:24,880
for a while.
Richard Bellevue came into a

1927
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:28,320
meeting with a Chinese track
spot, opened it up and it said

1928
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:31,800
manufactured in Austin, TX,
China.

1929
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:36,640
I did not know there was generic
track spots going out that

1930
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:38,000
might.
Be hell yeah it's.

1931
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:41,320
Ever made?
I mean the Mac one O. 1 I think.

1932
01:44:41,480 --> 01:44:43,600
Are great too because you can
just toss a ton of them into

1933
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:45,040
your back seat and you're good
to go.

1934
01:44:45,640 --> 01:44:47,400
Or the Mac one.
Now, I don't know if you've seen

1935
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:49,200
it, it's really cool.
I think I have.

1936
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:50,760
It's a little bit heavier
though, but a better beam

1937
01:44:50,760 --> 01:44:54,040
profile, is that right?
I think it's lighter and it's

1938
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:56,840
tiny as hell.
It weighs like 10 lbs.

1939
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:03,520
They're like 1500 bucks or
something and they sell these 4

1940
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:06,160
bars for them.
So you can put a like a bar of

1941
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:08,720
four and the whole thing goes
into the case and there's one

1942
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:11,880
connector and stuff.
Really cool packaging and it

1943
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:14,840
looks like a VL 5.
It's a little wash light and it

1944
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:17,080
kind of looks like a VL 5.
Well I mean the world

1945
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:20,360
performance were doing decent
beam effects before we really

1946
01:45:20,360 --> 01:45:23,080
had beam lights.
I think that's the way to go.

1947
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:25,720
I always love the aerial effect.
I've been raving about it since

1948
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:29,800
H ES since high end.
Happy the moving pin spot pin

1949
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,720
scan is what they called it.
I gathered a bunch of those, you

1950
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:33,840
know, do you know what I'm
talking about?

1951
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:38,760
Like 30 Watt white light pin
spots on a little box that they

1952
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:40,960
had pan and tilt.
And Paki had those.

1953
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:43,160
Or something.
No, maybe it was played Paki.

1954
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:47,240
Paki high end had like some
other things like they had the

1955
01:45:47,240 --> 01:45:49,280
emulator.
Which was cool as hell when it

1956
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,960
back then when lasers were
really expensive.

1957
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:55,800
I think.
I think somebody created a new

1958
01:45:55,800 --> 01:46:00,200
source for those since it's
those three atmosphere pressure

1959
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:02,640
$400.00 bulbs with the short
arc.

1960
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,200
Yeah, but they're just made-up
punch.

1961
01:46:05,440 --> 01:46:08,080
You know, 10 years ago, we're
playing with them 15, well, 20

1962
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:10,360
years ago and they still, they
just didn't have to punch it.

1963
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:14,000
Anymore now you can get good
lasers for so cheap, so it you.

1964
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:16,480
Know.
You're supposed to have a.

1965
01:46:16,480 --> 01:46:18,280
You're supposed to have a what
you call it though.

1966
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:21,840
What do you call it?
The freaking thing that you have

1967
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:24,760
to have to operate lasers over?
Like wearing the water,

1968
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:25,680
whatever.
A variance.

1969
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:27,480
Right.
Yeah, Yeah, FDA, remember the

1970
01:46:27,480 --> 01:46:28,560
word.
It's pretty funny.

1971
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:31,480
It's an FDA variance and then an
FAA if you're outside.

1972
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:36,200
Which is a bummer because a lot
of those laser fixtures that are

1973
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:40,240
out now like the Ayrton has the
Cobra and Claypaki has the

1974
01:46:40,280 --> 01:46:43,240
Stilos.
You know the light moving

1975
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:45,240
lights, but with a laser light
source in it.

1976
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:48,720
Does that.
Barton has one now, a really

1977
01:46:48,720 --> 01:46:53,680
tiny little one called a
Kayalami I think it's called and

1978
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:59,520
it's like AI think it's 100 Watt
laser and it's just it's

1979
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:04,840
freaking crazy beautiful, tiny
as hell, beams galore, just a

1980
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:08,360
killer, killer light.
Yeah, my issue is I don't care

1981
01:47:08,360 --> 01:47:11,280
if you guys audience getting a
pangolin or it's all safe.

1982
01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:14,040
I still don't want to laser
point it anywhere near my eye.

1983
01:47:14,480 --> 01:47:17,360
I just don't care.
Yeah, I'm still pretty paranoid

1984
01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:19,320
about that whole concept.
Are you?

1985
01:47:19,760 --> 01:47:21,000
Yeah.
See, I'm not.

1986
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:26,880
Because to me, like, if you've
ever looked at a Sharpie, you

1987
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:28,760
know that thing is right as
hell.

1988
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:31,240
It'll burn your friggin retina
out, you know?

1989
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:31,960
Yet.
It's.

1990
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:35,520
Totally legal, you know, it's
totally legal and acceptable,

1991
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:39,960
but you can't look at a laser
fixture that we've all done, you

1992
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:43,560
know, So yeah, anyways.
Sure.

1993
01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:45,920
I mean, I'm not saying paranoias
are reasonable.

1994
01:47:47,720 --> 01:47:50,240
Yeah, no, it's it's, you're
right.

1995
01:47:50,240 --> 01:47:53,040
I mean, you're not supposed to
look at them, but look at me.

1996
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:56,200
I'm OK it.
Says you mix glasses on, glasses

1997
01:47:56,200 --> 01:47:59,440
on, and you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

1998
01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:02,680
Exactly.
Well, Neil, I appreciate you,

1999
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:04,240
man.
It's been fun talking to you.

2000
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:06,720
I never know what I'm gonna talk
about when I talk with you, and

2001
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:10,360
it just kind of goes off into
the forest somewhere, you know?

2002
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:14,440
Absolutely, I'm feeling.
Through weed and mushrooms and

2003
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:18,480
politics and baby making and all
kinds of things so.

2004
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:23,280
Oh, definitely to reach me
asshole lawyer.com.

2005
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:26,440
Those of me asshole attorney.com
too.

2006
01:48:26,440 --> 01:48:29,080
I happen to own those.
Do you really?

2007
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:30,280
I do, yeah.
Check it out.

2008
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:34,240
You know what's funny, a long,
long time ago in the Internet

2009
01:48:34,240 --> 01:48:40,960
world, someone told me buy fuck
whatever yournameis.com and you

2010
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,360
know, buy it because someone
will buy it if you ever get big

2011
01:48:43,360 --> 01:48:46,000
and famous.
So I think I still own

2012
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:51,600
fuckmarcelfairbarn.com and you
know are Marcel's anasshole.net

2013
01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:58,400
next Exactly dot IO dot dot AI.
Hi my friend.

2014
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:02,160
Well, good seeing you and and
and have fun on all those

2015
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:03,440
vacations you're taking this
year.

2016
01:49:03,440 --> 01:49:05,200
Absolutely.
I'll maybe I'm in Florida.

2017
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:06,520
Let me know if you're in
Seattle.

2018
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:10,040
I got a boat out here and a
guest car and all of that.

2019
01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:11,440
Fun.
A guest car.

2020
01:49:11,440 --> 01:49:13,480
I'm coming.
Oh yeah, there's my girl are

2021
01:49:13,560 --> 01:49:16,440
huge car nuts.
So we got 3 Porsche, 9 Elevens,

2022
01:49:16,440 --> 01:49:19,960
the GT3 and you know.
They don't have a GT3 Rs though

2023
01:49:19,960 --> 01:49:20,800
do you?
Cuz I'll do.

2024
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:22,240
Really.
She has the GT3?

2025
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:25,000
Yeah, she's got 29 elevens.
I have one.

2026
01:49:25,480 --> 01:49:28,480
Yeah, but the GT3 Rs is just so
crazy.

2027
01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:32,920
I I have a BMW and the Porsche
dealer's next door and, and he's

2028
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:36,360
a friend of mine and I got my
car serviced last week and they

2029
01:49:36,360 --> 01:49:40,680
had this beautiful yellow GT3RS
in the showroom and it's friggin

2030
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:43,760
crazy.
Car for just a little bit extra

2031
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:46,440
of AGT.
Well, it's like 250 grand over

2032
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:50,880
sticker too.
Yeah, so it's like 500 and 5:50

2033
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:52,960
or something like that, right?
And people are buying them as

2034
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:55,360
fast as they come in.
They only get used ones.

2035
01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:58,160
Like this was a used one and
it's still selling for like 1

2036
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:01,640
something over sticker.
I daily drive all my cars.

2037
01:50:01,680 --> 01:50:04,440
I I beat them up.
I'm in Seattle with hills.

2038
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:07,800
I'm scraping the front bumper.
Yeah, every day.

2039
01:50:08,320 --> 01:50:09,960
Drive it like it's supposed to
be driven.

2040
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:11,960
Absolutely.
It's a car at the end of the

2041
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:14,080
day, right?
That's how I've always been too.

2042
01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:17,240
Like I have friends who park at
the other end of the parking lot

2043
01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:20,520
and take up two spots and park
sideways and all that stuff.

2044
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:23,680
Like to me, that's just an
invitation to get your door

2045
01:50:23,680 --> 01:50:28,960
keyed or something, you know?
Like I just park it like closest

2046
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:30,760
to the front I can get.
Yeah, you know, I don't care.

2047
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:32,000
Absolutely.
Yeah.

2048
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:35,240
All right, Neil.
Thanks, buddy.

2049
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:36,920
All right, Thanks, Marcel.
We'll talk soon.