#275 - Tim Dailey

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Hey, I hope you like today's
podcast episode number 275 with

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Tim Daly.
Tim is one of the gurus on

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Battery storage technology for
shows, basically these big

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battery systems that are
replacing generators on shows

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and other applications as well.
He is really sort of at the

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point of the sword on this
technology, knows an awful lot

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about it started sort of in the
in the core of our industry and

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sound and lighting and
production management and stuff.

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Really nice guy, very
knowledgeable guy and I hope you

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enjoy it.
And once again a reminder for

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LDI, if you want free haul
passes, you can use our promo

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code, which is one word geezers
of gear and I hope to see you

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there at LDI.
Thanks.

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Thank you for joining me today
for Geysers of Gear episode

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number 275 and if you will
please join me in watching the

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following video.
AVL Media Group is an

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award-winning distribution
company that has been

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established for over 25 years as
a trusted brand in the

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professional audio, video and
lighting markets.

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Our new state-of-the-art
facility includes a beautiful

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showroom space that is available
for demonstrations, training and

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special events.
This grants us the opportunity

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to share our knowledge and
provide a unique hands on

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experience to all our clients.
Our large warehouse facilities

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both in Canada and the US allow
us to keep a vast inventory of

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all the brands we distribute.
We can get you what you need,

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when you need it.
Our first class team of industry

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professionals is focused on
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post sales service and support
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mutually successful partnerships
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AVL Media Group, your premier
North American distribution

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partner.
And also a special mention to

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our friend Finn and Santa's
roadies.

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We are now in November and
before you know it, Thanksgiving

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and then of course, Christmas.
I know Mike Finn Finocchiaro

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from Big Finn Productions will
be working especially hard

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buying presents.
Many years ago, Mike and Big

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Finn Production started a
charity called Santa's Roadies

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to help teach his daughters that
giving is more rewarding than

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receiving.
What a great concept.

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Over the years this annual event
evolved from his daughter and

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Finn loading up the car with
gifts for freestyle charity

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giving to a Full Throttle event
where they were able to provide

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dream gifts for up to 50
families per year.

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And as this annual giving all
took shape, they were encouraged

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to apply for a 501C nonprofit
status.

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And in 2019, Santa's Roadies was
officially sanctioned as a

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recognized charity.
This allowed them to grow beyond

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the Christmas holiday, and they
were also able to bring

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Thanksgiving into the giving
spirit as well, feeding over 50

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families their Thanksgiving
meal.

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So if you're looking away, if
you're looking for a way to help

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this holiday season, please,
please visit Finn and Santa's

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roadies.org/donate to donate
today and help make this time of

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year a lot more special for so
many people.

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And thank you, Finn, for doing
what you do.

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Thank you for joining me today
for Gears of Gear episode number

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275.
And if you will please join me

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in watching the following video.
Tim, how are you today?

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I'm well Marcel, thanks a lot
for having me.

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I'm joined doing this show with
you.

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Yeah, yeah, No, it's going to be
fun.

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I'm looking forward to it.
You came highly recommended from

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from Neil.
And it's funny because he told

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me how to pronounce his last
name.

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He said it's like that, the
creature from Sesame Street.

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But I'm going to so it's.
I still get it wrong, so I still

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get it wrong.
So tell me how you do it.

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Vasavada.
Yeah.

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No, he said it's it's the, you
remember the, I think it was

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Sesame Street that had the guy
that went ma, ma, ma, ma.

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So he said just remember that
song and you'll get my name

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right.
And so it's Vasavada.

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Well.
He's never told me that trick so

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I appreciate that because I
always hack his name so I

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definitely will remember that
and I pronounce his name in the

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future.
But he, he, he came to Sarah and

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said, you really got to have
this guy Tim Daley on.

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He's he's, you know, really
bright and he's a big part of

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this movement towards battery
power.

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And so, yeah, thanks for coming
on and, and we're happy to have

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you here.
And and I look forward to

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getting to know you a bit.
Absolutely.

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Thank you.
And so I was looking through

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some of your notes and Riverview
I think is where you started,

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isn't it?
Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.
So I actually started in

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college, so I'll give you kind
of a quick Cliff notes on it.

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So in college I started going to
raves.

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And raves at the time had
beautiful lighting rigs, and I

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really became obsessed with
lighting.

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And so it really just kind of
pushed me to wanting to be

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involved in shows.
And so there was a show going on

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during the middle of the day on
campus where I went to college

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at Chico State.
They called them Nooners and I

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literally walked up to a guy and
I said, hey, I want to do this.

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How do I, how do I work with you
guys?

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And he said, what are you doing
tonight?

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And I said nothing.
He said, be here at 8:00 PM.

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So literally Carl Denson's Tiny
Universe was the show that was

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booked that night.
And that's also a beautiful show

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with a lot of great lighting.
So I showed up, got to watch the

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show and then helped do my first
loadout.

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And that really got me kind of
into the production world.

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And at the time, most of the
other folks on the crew were

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vying to be on the audio crew.
So there was always like a line.

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If you wanted to be the guy
running the audio console,

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nobody wanted to do lighting.
So that was also kind of what I

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liked more.
So I started doing that.

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I also quickly realized if I
messed up doing lighting, if the

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show went black, people just
thought it was part of the deal.

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And they, you know, they went
crazy and applauded.

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If the audio went dark,
everybody's looking around like

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who messed up?
So I quickly heard it was kind

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of this foolproof zone for me to
go.

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And you know, and during that
job I got to see all sorts of

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shows.
I was the lead lighting guy,

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lead tech, learned programming
post college.

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You know, I didn't actually
study lighting design or

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anything to do with production.
Was trying to get jobs in

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various industries more related
to my degree.

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Everybody kept saying you need
experience, you need experience.

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I wasn't getting hired.
So I end up finding a production

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company in Napa, CA that did
events and high ends things at

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wineries up there.
Ended up going to work for them

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for a couple years, Did the
lighting gig there, managed some

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lighting installs, did some
account management, came across

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Riverview.
Do you remember when they did

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the event production directory?
It was the big thick of course,

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that had all the vendors kind of
all over that showed up.

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That's where.
I got all my leads from back

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then.
Totally.

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It was a great resource.
I mean, I remember every year

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that book came out, it was like
it was a gold.

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I put it in my top drawer at my
desk.

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Anyhow, that that came out one
year, was looking through it,

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came to California, started
looking through suppliers, came

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across Riverview and it listed
this big long verilite

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inventory, big console
inventory.

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And I was kind of like, who the
heck are these guys?

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So I went on their website and
actually applied for a

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technician job because that was
the only thing listed.

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Immediately that same day the GM
called and says, hey, I got an

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open account management
position, you interested?

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And I was like absolutely went
down, interviewed with him,

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interviewed with the owner.
They actually took me to a job

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they were doing for, I think it
was for eBay that day was a big

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production, large stage video
screens, big lighting rig.

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And so immediately I was like,
this is it, I want to do that.

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So I ended up working for
Riverview for about 5 years.

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You know my role as an account
manager, but it also.

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Meant roughly ish. 2007 to 2012
ish, sometime around there,

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yeah.
And so, you know, I was an

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account manager and a technical
director.

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Evan Williams is the owner of
that company.

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I think he kind of saw something
in me, so he took me under his

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wing and really started bringing
me into some of the larger

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accounts.
And so pretty quickly I started

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managing some of the biggest
accounts we had there, you know,

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doing large corporate shows.
You're talking 200 motors,

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thousands of feet of trust
couple, 100 moving lights, you

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know, big, big jobs.
Did that for about 5 years,

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traveled a bunch.
I think I ruined a relationship

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in the process because I was
gone about 250 days a year.

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And, you know, during that time,
though, I really started having,

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you know, power issues on jobs
where, you know, and I realized

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quickly that, you know, if I
wanted to rely on house power,

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there was going to be risk in
some, you know, some

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environments.
So I started renting a lot of

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generators.
I rented from Caterpillar or

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Greco United Rentals, Sunbelt,
kind of think of any of the

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major rental players who have
generators in their fleet.

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So, you know, in that process I
developed a pretty good

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relationship with the Greco.
And the guy who was the sales

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Rep there, he actually recruited
me.

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He said, you know, you're one of
my easiest customers.

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You know, I don't have to do
anything.

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You call me with a very specific
equipment list.

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He said if you thought about a
career change and it was just

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kind of the right timing and I
said, you know, actually I am.

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So I ended up joining a Greco.
I joined them as a sales Rep.

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I focused on the San Francisco
Bay Area.

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You know, I focused on
construction and commercial, but

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I also did about 50% of my
business was entertainment and

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events because I had kind of all
those contacts from the

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Riverview days.
Did that for seven years, really

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enjoyed it.
Really got to learn about the

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power industry, got to learn
about twin packs and Tri packs

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and kind of what the expectation
is for the event market.

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Fast forward to 2019, went and
joined United Rentals, left

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sales and went to a management
role there.

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Was managing the power and HVAC
business.

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Managed a couple stores in the
Bay Area for a couple of years,

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did a lot of revenue, grew that
business a ton, and then they

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actually recruited me and tapped
me up for a promotion to a

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district manager.
And so in that role, I managed

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15 power and HVAC stores all the
way from Salt Lake City to

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Minneapolis and really grew that
business during that time.

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You know, I knew batteries were
kind of on their way up, but I

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really got to see first hand
kind of what they could do.

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Customers accepting of them had
a job site in Kansas City, was

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actually a data center, had
nothing to do with events, but

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that job site, you know, the end
customer was a large social

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media site and they said, we
don't care what it costs, we

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want as many green options on
this job as possible.

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So of course we're like cha
ching, we can do it.

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So we ended up putting about 60
mobile battery energy storage

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units on that job site.
It was the largest deployment in

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company history.
It was the largest deployment

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from that manufacturer's
history.

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And so for me, that was really a
pivotal moment where I, I

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realized, wow, this technology
is getting close to ready for

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prime time.
And then Moxie and Power came to

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the scene.
They did this big splashy press

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release and I and, and we missed
out on it.

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I was at United Rentals, their
press release was, you know,

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announcing that they had a big
partnership with Sunbelt

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Rentals, which is our biggest
competitor.

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So of course we're like, who are
these guys?

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What's going on?
So I actually called them kind

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of on a fact finding mission to
figure out who they were, what

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they were doing, you know, how
they were doing it.

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They saw my background and it
quickly pivoted to, you know,

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hey, why don't you come work for
us?

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And, you know, I'd done rental
for so long and I was so good at

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it that I really didn't think,
you know, major career pivot was

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00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,680
kind of in the cards for me.
But after kind of weighing the

228
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:58,240
option, discussing it with my
family, I decided, you know, to

229
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,560
make a move and, and leave
rental and go join a

230
00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:04,480
manufacturer.
I joined them in June of 2023,

231
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,040
worked there for 14 months.
Unfortunately, the company ended

232
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,040
up, you know, filing for
bankruptcy in July.

233
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,360
And it was, you know, it wasn't
a sales problem.

234
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,240
It was really just a far too
aggressive growth problem.

235
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,880
And you know, it's, you know, at
the time, of course,

236
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,960
disappointment was it was
factoring in there.

237
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,760
But for me personally, it really
kind of had put me on a

238
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,840
different career trajectory.
It kind of got me thinking about

239
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,720
the mobile energy storage space,
thinking about, you know,

240
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,920
greener power solutions for
events.

241
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,000
And so despite it not really
being the outcome, I or anyone

242
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,240
who's looking for the company,
you know, it kind of pivoted

243
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,440
where I'm headed career wise.
And so I'm thankful for that.

244
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,880
So that that company Moxium is
it called?

245
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,280
Moxium Power.
OK, so they specifically made

246
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,840
battery generators, battery
storage units?

247
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,840
Whatever they made a mobile
battery energy storage products.

248
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,880
The thing about batteries, it
doesn't actually generate any

249
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,480
energy.
So we don't, we try to not put

250
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,240
the generator name on it.
It's strictly a means for

251
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,240
storing energy.
And So what you do with the

252
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,360
product like that is, you know,
you hope you're in an area

253
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,160
that's got a a pretty good low
carbon or greener grid and use

254
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,400
that to charge the source.
Or you can even use solar to

255
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,000
charge that battery.
And then you deploy that battery

256
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,720
to an event site and power that
site for a couple of days or a

257
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,520
couple of weeks.
Yeah.

258
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,840
And so you said that that it
wasn't a sales problem, but it

259
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,160
was a their growth was a little
too aggressive, which is very

260
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,880
common in so many startups,
especially VC funded startups,

261
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,880
etcetera.
Like it's the focus is entirely

262
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,400
on growth, not on taking care of
the customer or making a better

263
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,360
product or whatever it is.
It's all just about sell as many

264
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,320
as you can, grow as fast as we
can.

265
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,520
And as long as you've got a, an
endless supply of capital coming

266
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,600
in, I guess like you're a public
company or you're, you're funded

267
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,000
by one of the massive VC
companies or whatever.

268
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,560
Great.
You know you can you can sustain

269
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:03,880
that sort of pain and suffering,
but it probably was pretty

270
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,360
painful, especially being there
the last 14 months.

271
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:08,040
Yeah.
I mean, it's a capital intensive

272
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,800
business.
I mean manufacturing in general

273
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,480
is going to be a capital
intensive business.

274
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,680
You know, if you manufacture in
the United States and

275
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,040
California, that makes it even
more challenging as far as

276
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,280
capital requirements.
And yeah, I mean it was, you

277
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,160
know, VC backs, of course, they
wanted to see hyper growth.

278
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,000
So that just meant continue
rolling and selling as many as

279
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,800
you can.
And again, it was a great

280
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,760
product.
It had great market fit.

281
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,480
Our customers loved it.
We deployed hundreds of them

282
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,080
across the US and, you know,
again, it was sad and everybody

283
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:37,520
put so much, you know, heart and
soul into it.

284
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,280
It was sad to see it go.
But you know, the industry as a

285
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,360
whole, I think it made a lot of
other people, particularly other

286
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,920
competitors, really realize they
need to step up their game.

287
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,000
And so that space of the market,
it's growing super quick.

288
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,280
There's all sorts of new
entrants.

289
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,000
Everybody's trying to one up
everybody.

290
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,400
So ultimately though, I think it
did the whole industry of

291
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,600
service.
Yeah.

292
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,680
So one of the big questions I
have when it comes to this type

293
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,160
of technology, this battery
technology is like, for example,

294
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,080
going back to that social media
customer that you were talking

295
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,920
about who I guess it was a data
center or something that they

296
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,680
were powering, right, like a
bunch.

297
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,600
Of servers data center, they
were actually building a data

298
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,480
center.
So OK and it was a multi billion

299
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,800
dollar data center.
So you're talking this is

300
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,000
probably a five year
construction project, right?

301
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,680
You know temporary power needs
from the very front end to the

302
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,160
very end of that project.
Oh, so that temporary power

303
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,080
wasn't to wasn't to power the
data center, it was to power the

304
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,280
construction site basically.
Yeah, that's.

305
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,040
Correct.
I get it.

306
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:38,360
And so a, a typical customer
like that, a large customer, are

307
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,760
they choosing it because it's
green or are they choosing it

308
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,080
because it's a better solution?
It depends on who the customer

309
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,960
is.
I mean, at the end of the day,

310
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,600
you know, I would say there's
two types of green.

311
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,920
You got green money and you got
green the environment.

312
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,240
People want to say they care
about green, the environment,

313
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,320
but the reality is most people,
green money is going to be the

314
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,960
most important thing.
And in a job like that, you

315
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,120
know, we went in on the front
end with a cut with a great

316
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,240
customer saying we don't care
what it costs.

317
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,760
So we actually, for them, it
actually ended up being a more

318
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,560
expensive rental.
But when we went back and looked

319
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,000
at a year's data and aggregated
everything over that year, they

320
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,040
ended up saving money from
reduced fuel spend, then end up

321
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,800
saving money from reduced
maintenance spend on the

322
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,160
generators, you know, doing oil
changes, filter changes, things

323
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:23,760
like that.
And then, of course, there was

324
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,200
all these added green benefits
that, you know, harder to

325
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,680
quantify.
But for a large social media

326
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,800
company, those are huge,
valuable assets.

327
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,440
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, you know, it's interesting

328
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,240
because I, I started an LED
company very early in the LED

329
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,520
world, LED lighting.
And initially it was

330
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,600
entertainment, architectural
lighting.

331
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,800
But then it quickly shifted to
commercial lighting because we

332
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,680
were in so early that there was
no distribution in place for,

333
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,480
you know, regular lighting to be
replaced by LED warehouse

334
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,720
lighting, office lighting,
whatever it was.

335
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,960
And So what happened was
initially sales were being made

336
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,000
because of the pricing.
Like for example, a fluorescent

337
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,000
tube, which costs, I don't know,
two or three dollars was being

338
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,319
replaced by a fluorescent or by
an LED tube that was $90.00.

339
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,599
And so it didn't make a lot of
financial sense.

340
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,560
So you had to have customers who
were really committed to this

341
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:29,480
green thing, right.
And it, it grew over time to be

342
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,520
much more of a financial play
where you would replace that

343
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,280
$2.00 fluorescent with A8 dollar
LED.

344
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,760
And at that point it paid for
itself inside a year, like in

345
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:47,440
six to ten months, it was it was
complete 100% return on

346
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,360
investment.
And so that became a much easier

347
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,240
sale because it was arguably
better light.

348
00:17:56,360 --> 00:18:00,000
It was less maintenance, It
lasted a lot longer than a

349
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,120
fluorescent bulb.
So there was a maintenance cost

350
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,880
savings and also safety and all
the things that go along with

351
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,880
climbing up on tall ladders to
replace light bulbs or whatever.

352
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,200
And but it was also a a massive
financial savings.

353
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,640
And so that made the sales so
much easier at that point, but

354
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,560
it also created a lot of
competition and it lowered the

355
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,640
bar to get into the business
solo that now you could all of a

356
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,280
sudden buy those fluorescent
tube replacements at Home Depot

357
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,720
and Walmart and all of those
places.

358
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,440
And they didn't need specialty
distribution anymore.

359
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,920
And my company kind of went, you
know, like it just we went from

360
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,800
being the darling of the
industry to being what do we

361
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,680
need you for so.
And the same is true for

362
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,240
batteries.
You know, the early entrants

363
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,840
were the ones that were willing
to pay a bit more, you know, be

364
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,880
able to go to market and say,
hey, we're using a greener

365
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,360
solution.
But as battery technology has

366
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,680
gotten better, as supply chains
have gotten stronger, as more

367
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,400
manufacturers have come to the
table, the price of batteries

368
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,440
keeps dropping.
And so it's not still on par

369
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,840
with a diesel equivalent, but
it's certainly getting closer.

370
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,320
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's always

371
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,760
interesting to me though what
the motivation is for the

372
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,240
customer, you know, is the
customer buying it like, you

373
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,160
know, in live events, for
example.

374
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,960
And I talked with Neil about
this as well.

375
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,480
You know, there's, there's
certainly an argument that could

376
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,920
be made for, you know, cleaner
air because you're not smelling

377
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,880
all the diesel generators
constantly, but the sound as

378
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,000
well, you know, they try to get
them far enough away so that

379
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,000
it's not annoying, but you can
still hear them.

380
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,200
And so, you know, those are some
real significant benefits, I

381
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,880
think.
But then when you get to the

382
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,880
cost and the, you know, I know
that early on, one of the

383
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,480
conversations I had with Richard
Kadina was related to the fact

384
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,440
that anyone using them was still
using diesel backups.

385
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:01,560
And so that again, it's kind of
like the Tesla or the anti Tesla

386
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,440
ads where it shows a, a diesel
van, you know?

387
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,280
Over repairing or towing a a
Tesla back to the dealership

388
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,200
because it's broken.
I mean, at the end of the day,

389
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,360
what we're trying to do with the
batteries is just be better.

390
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,040
It doesn't mean it's going to be
perfect.

391
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,760
And there are still a ton of
jobs where you end up using a

392
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,840
diesel generator as the source
to recharge the battery.

393
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,640
And while that may sound like,
hey, we haven't fixed anything

394
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,640
or made anything better, the
fact is it's actually leaps and

395
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,440
bounds better because on events,
you know, the loads, especially

396
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,800
like on a mainstage are really,
you know, they fluctuate.

397
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,440
There's a ton of peaks and
valleys.

398
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,080
And so you end up sizing a
generator to handle whatever

399
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,800
that peak may be.
But the reality is that peak may

400
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,680
only hit, you know, 5% or less
at the time.

401
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,440
So the beauty of a battery is
you have that there, it can

402
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,760
handle the peak, but if your
loads are a lot lower, the only

403
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,200
thing that happens is the
battery just last longer.

404
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,400
And then when you do go to turn
on that diesel generator to

405
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,360
recharge that battery, you're
running that diesel generator

406
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,560
optimum load, you're running it
at like 80 or 90% load, which is

407
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,880
where they're the most
efficient, where they're

408
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,520
designed to be used.
And so you know, if you

409
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,880
aggregate, you know the total
runtime on a generator emissions

410
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,320
fuel.
Even when you know doing a job

411
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,200
with batteries as the main
source, generators as your

412
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,640
backup and or your charge
source, the jobs are way cleaner

413
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,000
than just an all diesel job.
But doesn't that raise some

414
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,120
eyebrows?
You know, when you convince a

415
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:34,160
client to use battery power for
a show, for example, and the

416
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,760
client walks in and sees the
batteries being charged by

417
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,120
diesel generators?
Don't they go wait a second?

418
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,480
It's part of the conversation
because again, what we're

419
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,160
telling them is, hey, we aren't
perfect.

420
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,400
We're not saying we are.
There's not a big enough battery

421
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,840
out there that's going to be
able to handle this mainstage

422
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:50,560
for a week straight.
But the alternative is you're

423
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,200
going to run a big generator for
a week straight and have all

424
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,600
these periods of time where, say
that generator is rated at 500

425
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,200
kilowatts.
It may be running at 5

426
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,280
kilowatts.
So like by a factor of 100, you

427
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,840
know, it's a huge reduction in
what the emissions would be.

428
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,160
And so, yeah, again, it's not
the perfect solution, but any of

429
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,960
those jobs, we're using a
battery as the main source with

430
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,040
the diesel backup and as a
charge source.

431
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,000
We absolutely have that
conversation on the front end.

432
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,120
The customer knows and the sales
pitch is, hey, we're not, we're

433
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,000
not perfect, but we're going to
be a lot better than just

434
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,840
straight diesel.
Yeah, yeah.

435
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,400
I mean, it makes sense.
It's just a, you know, again,

436
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,880
my, my mind keeps going to this,
what's the motivation thing, you

437
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,520
know, and if, if the only
motivation, and so you've

438
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,000
already talked about part of it,
you know, the, the peaks and,

439
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,280
and how it that's handled in a
battery versus a generator is

440
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,360
much more efficient.
But if, if the biggest

441
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:46,480
motivation always is, you know,
because it, it puts out less

442
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,240
pollution or it's greener, it's
a greener solution.

443
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,400
That's a tough sell.
It's always going to be a tough

444
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,000
sell, you know, because not
everyone believes in that.

445
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,840
The good news is though that
even on the event front, we are

446
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,760
at kind of that inflection point
where now the money savings is

447
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,600
also legitimate where we go look
at a job that was 100% diesel

448
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,600
and now we've hybridized 50% of
that job site.

449
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,680
When we go around a post show
analysis, when it when we factor

450
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,120
in the total fuel cost, it ends
up being either the same or the

451
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,240
green power solution actually
ends up saving some money.

452
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000
So, you know, and that's the
important piece is once we can

453
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,280
check both those green boxes,
there's no reason why anybody

454
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,920
should not want to use that
solution.

455
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,400
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, like to me, one of the

456
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,800
one of the great things would
be, you know, which would get it

457
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,680
onto a tour like obviously
smaller truck pack or you know,

458
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,360
whatever the things are that
would get it onto a tour, for

459
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:44,920
example.
Well, although tours don't

460
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,960
really carry their own
generators, they, they get them

461
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,960
locally.
But I'm just, I'm looking for

462
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,040
any solution that that jumps out
and says, This is why you would

463
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,160
use this thing.
And if, if it's more expensive

464
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,520
but greener, chances are, unless
you get a Coldplay who who says

465
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,120
we don't care what it takes?
Like you were talking about the

466
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,560
social media client, you know,
whatever it costs, that's what

467
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,520
we have to have.
Those are still pretty rare

468
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,040
these days I think.
You know.

469
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,160
Building knowledge.
Coldplay.

470
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,120
Very few.
Yeah.

471
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,960
So there are actually some ways
to use a battery without a

472
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,320
diesel generator that to get the
same effect.

473
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,160
So it's something that, you
know, Neil and I coined as boost

474
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,680
and buffer.
So essentially what that is, if

475
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,920
the customer has a low voltage,
low amperage power source, but

476
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,320
they need more power for a show,
it's actually a perfect

477
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,120
application to use battery.
And I'll give you a real life

478
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:42,560
example.
So there was a job I did, it was

479
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,880
for another Silicon Valley high
tech company.

480
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,200
They were producing a show on
their campus.

481
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,480
I think it was an analyst event.
They had a single 240 Volt,

482
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,600
single phase 50 amp service on
their on their property.

483
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,360
So that is 2 hot legs, 50 amps
each.

484
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,400
So that's 100 amps of total
power.

485
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,800
They went to the producer of the
show and they said, hey,

486
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,480
obviously we're going to need
more power for this job, but you

487
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,920
can't use diesel generators.
It just so happened to be a

488
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,560
producer that I had a
relationship with.

489
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,840
They knew that I had gone over
to this, you know, battery

490
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,560
technology company.
So they gave me a call and they

491
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,680
said, hey, what can we do?
And I said this is a perfect way

492
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,720
to use batteries and a boost and
buffer.

493
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,840
So what we did on that job is we
brought in two of the Moxian

494
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,280
75600 batteries.
We took that 50 amp 240 Volt

495
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,200
service, split it in two,
plugged into each battery and

496
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,920
trickle charged both those
batteries 24 sevens.

497
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,240
We were able to put about 10
kilowatt hours into each battery

498
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,440
per hour.
We then ran those batteries at

499
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,440
480 Volt, put them through a
step down transformer.

500
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,840
So I was able to offer that
customer 2 services, one from

501
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,280
each of those those batteries
and each of those services was a

502
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,920
200 amp, three phase two O 8
Volt service.

503
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,080
So I took 100 amps of building
power and gave that customer

504
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,960
1200 amps of usable power.
So it was a perfect application

505
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,480
of boosting buffer where you
know, we took a very small local

506
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,640
source, boosted it, buffered it
with that energy we had

507
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,600
available in the battery and
gave them an optimal solution

508
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,280
that no other product out there
could do.

509
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,480
And that customer was super
stoked after that job.

510
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,720
So it was really a great
application of of using battery

511
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,960
without a diesel genset as the
charge source.

512
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,440
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of
sense.

513
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,200
And, and, you know, I know that
like Kadena was telling me, I

514
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,680
think it was Willie Nelson's
festival.

515
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,400
Where?
Yeah, where they had a pretty

516
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,040
large solar array very nearby
that was that was recharging

517
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,760
batteries.
Obviously for a festival that's

518
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,400
easier to do than it is for, you
know, any kind of a one day

519
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,280
event or a few hour event or
whatever it is.

520
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,760
You're not going to bring in a
solar farm to do, you know, a 2

521
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:54,240
hour presentation or something.
But so is that becoming more

522
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,880
common though, where you're not
using diesel, where you're using

523
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,920
other methods of of recharging
like solar?

524
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,000
Absolutely.
And it's of course it's going to

525
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,040
be venue dependent or show site
dependent.

526
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,680
But you know, we did a festival
a couple of weeks ago called

527
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,840
Portola Music Festival in San
Francisco.

528
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,040
That venue had a couple of 200
amp, three phase 28 Volt

529
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,280
services in a corner of the
venue really far removed from

530
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,440
the action.
So really, you know, in a spot

531
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,200
where it was not usable for the
show.

532
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,200
However, we said, hey, that's
going to be a perfect location

533
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,040
where we can do a battery charge
depot.

534
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,120
So on that job we had a couple
extra batteries.

535
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,720
And so essentially we rotated
the batteries as as we needed

536
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,880
to.
So essentially we would have

537
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,680
batteries in that corner
charging off of that house power

538
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,800
source.
We had batteries deployed around

539
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,920
the site, food and beverage
bars, vending VIP areas.

540
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,280
And, you know, we monitor those
batteries with remote

541
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,480
monitoring, so we could see the
state of charge and we would

542
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,320
swap those batteries overnight
or during a break when there was

543
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,440
like an opportune time where we
could shut down power for a

544
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,200
minute to do a swap over.
So in that scenario, you know,

545
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,520
we, we were able to utilize
house power that otherwise would

546
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,040
have sat there unused.
We also did small deployable

547
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,440
solar arrays on that job for a
few of the areas.

548
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,920
And, and deployable solar arrays
are challenging because you need

549
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,520
to be in good area with good sun
exposure.

550
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,800
You want to have S facing, you
don't want to have a lot of

551
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,480
shadows or, or shading.
And so they don't put a ton of

552
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,760
power.
But for an area that really is a

553
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,600
low consumer of power, like a
like a vending area or somewhere

554
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,120
that's selling T-shirts, you
know, that's a perfect

555
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,880
opportunity where you can put a
small deployable solar array.

556
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,040
You can essentially trickle
charge that battery, and you've

557
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,440
got enough power there that you
can make it through an entire

558
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,800
festival weekend without either
swapping it or having to

559
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,800
recharge that battery.
Interesting which?

560
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,000
Is.
Obviously that's the ultimate

561
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,800
goal, right, Is that a battery
lasts you the whole weekend and

562
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,160
you don't have to bring in
generators and fuel and

563
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,640
whatever.
Absolutely.

564
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,800
And then there's, you know, the
manufacturers that are coming to

565
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,560
the space and making mobile
batteries.

566
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,280
They're all stepping up their
games.

567
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,040
They're making products with
bigger battery banks with faster

568
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,040
recharge times, with more
capabilities to take in solar or

569
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,720
alternative energy sources.
They're also starting to

570
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,600
manufacture much larger and
easier to deploy solar arrays.

571
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,040
You know, there's multiple
vendors out there right now who

572
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,880
are making a product that shows
up on a 20 foot shipping

573
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,760
container.
The two walls fold down and you

574
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,520
could pull out a couple 100
panels.

575
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,360
So again, you've got to have
real estate.

576
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,880
You got to have a customer who's
OK with you putting that out

577
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200
there.
But assuming you have those, you

578
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,320
know those those two needs met,
there's absolutely, you know,

579
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,520
scenarios where you can deploy
even a larger solar array that

580
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,480
can recharge a battery that's
doing a mainstage at one of

581
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,240
these festivals.
Interesting.

582
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,560
Yeah.
So is there, is there some kind

583
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,840
of a a stat or something that
says you need X number of square

584
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,120
feet of solar per kilowatt or
whatever it is for a from a

585
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,000
charging standpoint?
There is, but I certainly don't

586
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,400
know it.
It's one of those parts of the

587
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,560
business that I didn't focus on
too much.

588
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,000
Yeah.
So I unfortunately do not know

589
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,000
that equation.
I was just curious, yeah.

590
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,360
And I guarantee you Neil could
pop it off probably the second

591
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,640
you asked.
Oh, I'm sure he good.

592
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,480
Yeah.
Neil's too smart for me to talk

593
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,400
to.
It's dangerous.

594
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,160
Not that you're not, but I don't
know anything about power, so

595
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,240
you know, I just know you plug
stuff in the wall and eventually

596
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,520
it works.
And even the solar shading, that

597
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,480
was something I learned from
Neil on the last deployment.

598
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,320
I had no idea.
But if you have a solar array

599
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:23,600
laid out in one corner of 1
panel has some shade on it, that

600
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,760
actually impacts the entire
array and how much you're going

601
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:27,600
to get out of it.
Yeah.

602
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,000
And so that's, you know, I'd
always heard of micro inverters

603
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,640
where essentially are you have
an individual inverter on the

604
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,720
back of each solar panel.
And I never quite understood the

605
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,720
why, but the why is because if
you do it that way, if panel on

606
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,560
the end is is shaded and your
panels in the middle aren't, you

607
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,560
won't have a downward effect.
Whereas if all those panels are

608
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,120
chained together, they go to one
inverter.

609
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040
If they're solar shading on one
of those panels, that entire

610
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,400
array is going to feel the
effect of it.

611
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,760
That's interesting.
So what is the?

612
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,080
What's the core market for this
stuff?

613
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,520
Like who?
Who are the biggest buyers of of

614
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,720
this product or renters of this
product?

615
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,440
Well I mean the low hanging
fruit is the entertainment

616
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,400
space.
Just because a they have really

617
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,520
visible carbon reduction goals,
the optics of those events are

618
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,440
huge.
Sometimes they are willing to

619
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,840
spend a little bit extra money
if needed to get a green

620
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,440
solution.
But the reality is the events

621
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,000
world is where there are so many
generators that are grossly

622
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,520
oversized for what they need to
do.

623
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,320
And again, I mentioned earlier
how you size your generator for

624
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,880
the worst case scenario.
It may never see that.

625
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,960
It may only see that 5% of the
time, but you still have to do

626
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,440
it because you got to be able to
cover for those hits that you

627
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,120
know when the lighting or the
audio is hitting, you're going

628
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,000
to go above 400 amps.
And that's really where

629
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,800
batteries just completely shine.
Another area where they really

630
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,080
shine.
His job site trailer.

631
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,400
So I mentioned earlier the data
center built in Kansas City

632
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,280
where it was for a big social
media company, that job site had

633
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,120
like sixty of those big, you
know, 8 foot by 40 foot office

634
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,760
containers.
Those things have a disconnect

635
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,600
panel on the side of it.
It's usually A70AMP or 100 amp

636
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,080
disconnect panel.
Electrical code states that the

637
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,520
generator needs to be sized for
what that panel can handle.

638
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,200
Again, same as the event world
where the reality is you may

639
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,240
never hit that peak load.
You may only hit it 5 or 10% of

640
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040
the time.
So almost every single job site

641
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,040
in in America right now that has
a construction trailer, they

642
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,640
have a generator there that is
grossly oversized.

643
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,080
So it's another perfect
opportunity to deploy a battery

644
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,760
and really get a battery out
there that can handle the peak

645
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,440
load but has a ton of buffer in
it so that for all those peaks

646
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,880
and valleys, what you do is you
just get a battery that's just

647
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,560
going to last longer.
So right now it's really

648
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,360
construction and the event
market.

649
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,680
There's also a huge opportunity
in EV charging that we can

650
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,960
discuss a bit later.
So explain to me again this peak

651
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,520
load thing, because again, you
know you're going to have to

652
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,760
talk to me like I'm a fifth
grader because I kind of am.

653
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,960
But if I've got 100 amp
generator and suddenly it's

654
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:05,360
being fed with with a request
for 125 amps, what happens to

655
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:10,480
the generator versus MY100AMP
battery pack that is suddenly

656
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,920
given that demand for 125?
So what's the difference there?

657
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,040
Well, say any machine, you don't
want to exceed what it's rated

658
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:19,960
at.
I mean, I'll tell you that it's

659
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,880
like the first rule of thumb
with any of this thing.

660
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,720
And So what I'm getting at is if
we're at a job site and you go

661
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,640
and, and the lighting department
says I need a 400 amp three

662
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,760
phase service.
And I kid you not, every

663
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,800
lighting department still says
they need that or they need two

664
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,520
or three of those.
And when the reality is their

665
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,760
entire lighting rig is LED and
they're probably pulling 40

666
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,520
amps.
So you go size your plant to

667
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,760
handle a 400 amp peak load.
The reality is when you go look

668
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,480
at that that machine, you go
look at the reading that shows

669
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,120
you their, their total draw.
They're usually sitting around

670
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,280
40 or 50 amps.
However, you know you, you have

671
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,040
a lighting background.
So you know this, if you take an

672
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,000
LED rig to white to 100%
brightness, that's when you're

673
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,280
going to have your peak load.
Nobody leaves it at that load.

674
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,800
I mean, they're going to be
going through all their lighting

675
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,720
queues where they're flashing
and they're hitting that.

676
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,880
So there may be a moment where
that machine, whether it be a

677
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,199
generator or a battery, sees
A380 amp load.

678
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,800
So you need to have a machine
that can handle those peaks.

679
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,360
But the reality is every one of
those machines is usually

680
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,320
running at about 10% of of that
peak capacity, right?

681
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,440
Right.
And so why is a battery better

682
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,280
in that situation?
So a battery has the headroom to

683
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,199
handle the peak, so if you throw
the 380 amps at it, it'll be

684
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:37,400
able to take that.
But when you're running at those

685
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,560
averages, which is closer to 40
or 50 amps, all you're doing is

686
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,120
you're just, you know, making
the the time that that battery

687
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,440
can run longer because the
battery doesn't care about the

688
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,080
load, it cares about power out.
And so it's just when your load

689
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,840
is much smaller, you're
consuming much less of that

690
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,560
battery's energy.
And So what happens is that

691
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,440
battery just lasts longer.
Now the inverse of that is when

692
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,480
you use a diesel generator, the
fuel consumed by a diesel

693
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,360
generator is proportionate to
the load.

694
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,240
However, when you get down to
about 25% load and below on a

695
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,640
generator, it's the same fuel
consumption.

696
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,560
And So what you end up doing is
you have this big generator,

697
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,840
it's there to handle these peak
loads that may only happen for a

698
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,760
couple of minutes out of a one
hour set.

699
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,240
The rest of the time that
generator is sitting down there

700
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:25,680
running at about 10% of its
rated capacity.

701
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,200
And it's just really inefficient
and it's for a couple of

702
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,600
reasons.
So a from a fuel consumption

703
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,760
standpoint, you're running a
machine, you know, at 10% when

704
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,880
it's sized to run at 80%.
So you're burning a much more

705
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,680
fuel than you need.
And then also generators are

706
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,960
meant to run at their rate of
capacity.

707
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,240
So when you run them low, you
actually cause progressive

708
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,920
damage to the exhaust systems.
And so, you know, any of these

709
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,560
people who own diesel generators
will tell you that, you know,

710
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,520
they hate under loading the
machines because at some point

711
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,880
they're going to have to go do a
really expensive replacement

712
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,360
where they're replacing that
entire exhaust system because it

713
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,920
gets clogged.
The beauty of a battery is none

714
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,160
of those things matter.
Nothing happens.

715
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,720
Basically, if you run a battery
low, it just means it's going to

716
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,480
last longer.
Yeah, Yeah.

717
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,000
OK, I get it.
So, you know, the battery,

718
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,160
basically, if you're running at
peak load all the time, you're

719
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,480
going to run out of power a lot
sooner than you thought you were

720
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,840
going to.
But chances are it's going to

721
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,720
last longer than you expected
because you put it in there

722
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,760
based on a certain set of specs
or whatever.

723
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,240
But the assumption is it's only
going to run at 10% of that.

724
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,000
Yeah, that is.
Similar to what happened with LE

725
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,760
DS when LE DS started being used
because you know, people were,

726
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,360
people were calculating the
savings based on the wattage of

727
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,160
the LED versus the wattage of
the light fixture.

728
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:51,480
So if I've got a 1200 Watt
discharge lamp, that is drawing

729
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,440
1200 watts no matter what,
right?

730
00:36:53,600 --> 00:37:00,240
The LED is a 300 or 400 Watt LED
package to produce the same

731
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:03,840
amount of light as the 1200.
But The thing is, when you dim

732
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,280
the 1200 Watt discharge lamp,
you're actually putting shutters

733
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,840
into it.
You're putting dimming shutters

734
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,480
into it, but the lamp's still
running at 1200 watts.

735
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,400
When you dim an LED, you're
cutting the power on the LE DS.

736
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,960
When you when you black out an
LED, you're actually turning it

737
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,840
off.
When you black out a discharge

738
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,760
lamp, you're just putting
shutters in front of the lamp.

739
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:32,160
And so literally for a tour, the
amount of energy savings for LED

740
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,280
is massive.
Because if you figure when you

741
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,000
put the rig up in the morning,
you're turning those lights on

742
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,960
at about 11:00 in the morning
and they don't go off again

743
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,040
until about 11:00 or 12:00 at
night.

744
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:49,680
And they're on that entire time,
whereas LE DS are just, they're

745
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,360
on demand.
So when you turn the light on

746
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,480
it, it goes on and it's drawing
power.

747
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,920
When you don't, it's not.
And so battery basically is the

748
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,720
same thing it.
Well, in in a strange.

749
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,280
Way.
In in the previous era of

750
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
lighting where it was all
incandescent lights or arc

751
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,800
source lamps, using battery for
for prime source power would

752
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,560
have never worked because you
have this continual high load.

753
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,480
And that's always the thing
about batteries when I talk to

754
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,600
customers, they work for a lot
of applications.

755
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,240
They don't work for every
application.

756
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:22,640
And if an application has a
continuous high load, battery is

757
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,840
the wrong technology, Don't even
bother.

758
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,680
It's these variable loads that
have really big peaks and really

759
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,880
big valleys where the batteries
really shine.

760
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,160
And LED lighting is a huge part
of that.

761
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,240
But again, if you look at a
concert, you know, that's

762
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:39,360
happening in a football stadium
or something or wherever it is

763
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,880
where you're not, where you
don't have house power and where

764
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,360
the setup is at 11:00 in the
morning and the show isn't until

765
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:52,240
8:00 at night or whatever.
A battery is going to make much

766
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:55,560
more sense than a generator
because that battery really is

767
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,360
going to be on demand.
And it's only going to be

768
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,520
feeding power when people turn
lights on or they're doing sound

769
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,640
check or whatever.
Otherwise it's just going to be

770
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,200
sitting there, you know, doing
nothing.

771
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,800
Yep.
No, it seems to make a lot of

772
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,080
sense.
I mean, even think about, think

773
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,120
about overnight at a show, you
know, they, they want to leave

774
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,920
consoles hot.
They want to leave, you know,

775
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,720
various racks hot.
And so in the, in the previous

776
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,640
world of diesel generators, they
would leave a big generator

777
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,640
running 24 hours a day where,
you know, in the middle of the

778
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,640
night there's little to no load.
And again, that's where these

779
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,760
batteries shine because when you
under load a battery, it just

780
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,280
lasts longer.
I mean, that's that.

781
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,960
That's the beauty of it.
So aside from live shows and,

782
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,840
and, you know, corporate stuff
or whatever, what, what are some

783
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,720
other markets that are big
markets for battery?

784
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,000
Another market that I wouldn't
say is big yet, but it's going

785
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,560
to be is EV charging.
You know, you mentioned earlier,

786
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,440
you know, seeing a, a Tesla on
the back of a, a diesel truck

787
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,400
getting pulled down the road.
So a lot of times right now when

788
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,320
folks are short power for, for
large EV charging deployments,

789
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,560
what do they do?
They roll in a diesel generator.

790
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,640
Obviously the optics of that
suck.

791
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,480
You know, you have 10 EDS over
here and you got a big diesel

792
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,920
generator over here churning to
charge those.

793
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,000
I mean, it just at that point,
is there even a gain?

794
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,080
I mean, I don't know what the
numbers are, but probably not or

795
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,720
it's not very good.
So in that scenario, you know,

796
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:23,200
deployable, dispatchable large
kWh energy storage units are a

797
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,360
great solution because now
you're bringing in grid power or

798
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,720
solar power from somewhere else.
You're bringing it in a mobile

799
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:34,240
form, dispatching it to wherever
this EV charging deployment may

800
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:37,440
be in charging those batteries,
you know, with the battery

801
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,840
energy storage device as opposed
to a diesel generator.

802
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,240
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.

803
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:48,480
What about like, you know, I, my
last house, not this one, but my

804
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,640
last house had a like a whole
house generator because I live

805
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,000
in South Florida and you know, I
know Tesla has the battery

806
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,120
systems and stuff, but but
that's not really going to help

807
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,400
you in, in a situation like a
storm.

808
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,400
It'll help you for a day or two.
But so that probably isn't a

809
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,160
great solution right now.
I would expect because you know

810
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,440
it, it'll keep you running until
the battery dies and if you're

811
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,040
out of power for a couple of
weeks.

812
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:19,840
Yeah.
I mean, in that scenario, you

813
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,560
you would absolutely want to
have an installed solar array as

814
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,160
well.
Because if you're in a situation

815
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,960
where you are an area that has
good sun exposure, not a lot of

816
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,640
trees for a lot of shading and
shadows, and you've got a solar

817
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,960
array on your roof, you've got a
battery on the side of your

818
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,840
house and you're connected to
the utility.

819
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:39,520
If you have a way to disconnect
yourself from the utility in the

820
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,080
event of like a catastrophic
storm where the power is going

821
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,400
out, in theory couldn't have a
system that can run your house

822
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,000
in perpetuity.
I mean, there's a ton of people

823
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,520
that do off grid houses now.
And you, you have to put the

824
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,960
investment up front.
I mean, you need big enough

825
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,000
solar and you need a big enough
battery.

826
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,680
But again, as the price of of
those two technologies come down

827
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,800
and the price of utility power
goes up, which is going to keep

828
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,120
going up, particularly with AI
and all this computing

829
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,720
infrastructure going up that's
taking a drastic amount of

830
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:09,760
power.
There is absolutely going to be

831
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,480
a business case for every home
having, you know, the solar

832
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:14,760
array and batteries on the side
well.

833
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,880
It makes tons of sense but from
what I understand, and I could

834
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,040
be wrong, but I think in Florida
and some other states that's

835
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,240
actually against the law, you're
not allowed to go off grid.

836
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,720
And, and, and I'm not aware of
that, but you know, if that's a,

837
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,480
a state with those rules, that's
I'd say an issue, you know, at

838
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,440
the state legislative level.
And it's, it's kind of it's

839
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,840
short sighted thinking because
why not have energy resiliency

840
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,200
where every house?
Yeah, where Every house?

841
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,600
It's because the market is owned
by a massive, you know,

842
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,680
conglomerate company, Florida
Power and Light, and, you know,

843
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,600
they're in, in they're connected
to the government through

844
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,120
lobbyists or whatever it is or
payouts or so.

845
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,920
But yeah, that's, that's what I
understand because I, I know

846
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,240
people who have put in like, you
know, Tesla battery systems and

847
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:05,360
solar and all of that.
But the problem is like at the

848
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,200
end of the day, you're feeding
power to the grid and getting

849
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,040
credit for it, but you're still
buying power from the grid.

850
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,960
And then when the grid shuts
down, I think there's some sort

851
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,080
of thing where you can put in a
transfer switch and and enable

852
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,160
yourself to switch from city
power to to your own power

853
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,000
basically.
And they call it island mode.

854
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,240
And so that really is the key to
those systems, you know, being

855
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,440
able to work in any scenario
where you have the ability to

856
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,000
disconnect yourself from the
utility if they're having

857
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,840
issues.
And it's safety thing because,

858
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,840
you know, you don't want to be
connected to the utility there.

859
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,640
You got, they got guys working
on the line to get everybody

860
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,080
restored.
All of a sudden your system

861
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,400
starts back feeding excess
energy to the grid.

862
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,680
You end up in a dangerous
situation where someone's going

863
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,880
to go electrocute it.
So there absolutely is a safety

864
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,680
reason why you need to have a
means of disconnection.

865
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,760
But, you know, from a technical
standpoint, there's absolutely

866
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,360
no reason why every one of these
homes can't have a means to do

867
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,040
that.
Yeah, I mean, we have so many

868
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,320
yahoos here in Florida that's
that you know, they, they hook

869
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,880
up to the dryer connections or
whatever, they'll hook a

870
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,120
generator into their dryer
connections and and they're back

871
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,840
feeding these lines and and
because they don't have a

872
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,240
transfer switch that that
disconnects you from that city

873
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,760
power system or whatever you
want to call it, but.

874
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,160
So in California, you know, they
unfortunately, you know,

875
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,400
California always has a lot of
green looking forward thinking

876
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,200
initiatives.
However, there's also, you know,

877
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,800
very large publicly traded
utility companies that have

878
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,720
great, very good connections
with the government.

879
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,400
So they actually passed a lot on
the last year, the year before,

880
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,920
but it's called net metering 3.
And what that means is PG&E, the

881
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,600
utility can pay consumers a lot
less for the energy that that

882
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,000
they back feed to the grid.
You know, it's something like

883
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,720
where they're paying you $0.10 a
kWh, but they're charging you

884
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:55,800
$0.50 a kWh.
So what that did is anybody now

885
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,160
who builds a new solar system in
California, there's zero point

886
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,840
to do it unless you pay the
extra money to get a battery.

887
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,200
Because what you want to be able
to do is store those extra

888
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,680
electrons that your solar array
produces and consume them

889
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,720
yourself as opposed to selling
them back to the utility.

890
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,560
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that makes
sense.

891
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,840
Yeah.
I don't know, Like I as a

892
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,760
homeowner, I think I've done
the, the math on it multiple

893
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,960
times and it just didn't pay.
Like the the payback on these

894
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,000
systems was, you know, 20 years
and I don't want to keep a house

895
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,680
for 20 years.
So, well, that's kind of where

896
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,120
I'm at too.
You know, I'm in this space.

897
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,680
It's something I'm very
passionate about.

898
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:33,840
I own my house.
I have not yet put solar and a

899
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,680
battery on there.
And I did the same napkin

900
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,160
calculation that you did.
And I've calculated about 15 to

901
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,080
20 years, not knowing if I'm
going to stay here that long.

902
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,800
I haven't yet made the
commitment to do it, But as

903
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,960
solar batteries keep coming
down, the likely reflection

904
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,920
point where we both look at it
and say hey, this makes sense,

905
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,600
it's going to be a 5 or 10 year
payback.

906
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,080
So what are those pain points
for the for the battery industry

907
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,720
right now?
Like do you deal with the same

908
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,080
rare earth minerals and things
that like car batteries and cell

909
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,880
phone batteries deal with or, or
like is that one of the big pain

910
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,560
points is just the ability to
produce more batteries and the

911
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,280
cost of those rare earth
minerals and the the in

912
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,640
availability of those rare earth
minerals and stuff like that or.

913
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,360
So I mean there's a bunch of
pain points, but you know,

914
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,360
regarding your your last
question about the rare earth

915
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,240
minerals, so there's really two
kind of main battery chemistries

916
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:28,200
that you see right now.
One is NMC, that is a battery

917
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,520
chemistry that has cobalt and
nickel in it.

918
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,840
So it's absolutely requires rare
earth minerals.

919
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,320
There's some people in Congo
mining stuff and probably very

920
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,760
undesirable situations.
And so, yeah, so those batteries

921
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,800
that are made with those
chemistries, absolutely there's

922
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,400
there's some issues with that.
LFP is actually becoming the

923
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,880
more predominant battery
chemistry and that's lithium

924
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,920
iron phosphate that does not
have any of those rare earth

925
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,880
minerals or are very, very
minimal amount.

926
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,200
You know, iron is actually the
main component of those

927
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,400
batteries and those are
absolutely starting to take off

928
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:00,880
and be the kind of the
predominant 1.

929
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,280
So there's less issues with
those in the rare earth

930
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,920
minerals.
If you're looking at the entire

931
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,120
battery industry, really where
I'd say the biggest challenge

932
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:14,960
comes right now is legislation.
And you know, UL Underwriter

933
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,400
Laboratory has specific UL codes
related to batteries related to

934
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,000
battery energy storage.
Some of these codes make sense,

935
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,080
some do not make sense, and you
know it.

936
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,960
And so depending where you are
and what fire marshals you're

937
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,040
dealing with, you may end up
having a bunch of headache even

938
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,680
trying to get a battery system
permitted or deployed.

939
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,600
UL 9540 is the main kind of
encompassing one.

940
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,840
A lot of products out there do
not have a full UL 9540 listing.

941
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,720
Fire code has now written that
into the code and so a lot of

942
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:51,120
places you know unless you have
that full UL cert it's going to

943
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,040
be hard to get your system
permitted.

944
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:58,040
One, it's probably antiquated
and, and you know, so old and

945
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,400
written under completely
different conditions and

946
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,640
whatever the government doesn't
move quickly on some of these

947
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,280
things, obviously.
Well, and then another big

948
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,440
hurdle really is optics and the
pre show you and I discussed

949
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,960
this where you know when an EB
car catches on fire, it's always

950
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,680
on the news.
But the reality is there's 10 to

951
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,360
20 times as many internal
combustion engine fires that

952
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,120
happened, you know, every day or
every year.

953
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,160
But those are not on the news.
And so it's just this.

954
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,680
Obvious, paying attention to
that.

955
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:27,920
Yeah.
And so it's like, you know, if

956
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,400
you look at an aggregate, those
internal combustion engines

957
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,320
actually have a lot more issues
than the battery ones.

958
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,200
But everybody wants to put
those, the battery issues at the

959
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,040
forefront.
And so really fighting optics is

960
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,360
another big challenge.
Well, and it's probably, you

961
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,880
know, as crazy as this sounds,
ever since Elon Musk bought

962
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,920
Twitter, it probably got even
more difficult for you because,

963
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,960
you know, half the country, call
it the left, got really upset

964
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:58,560
and decided Tesla bad, you know,
And so one thing you could

965
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,400
always count on is, is more
progressive.

966
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:08,200
People were very much for
battery power and battery

967
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,280
powered cars.
And I know a lot of my friends

968
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,520
sort of went away from it based
on that one guy and either his

969
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,360
politics or his rhetoric or
whatever you want to call it.

970
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,800
And so that can't help either,
you know?

971
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,160
Because.
It is political.

972
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,440
It is political, but at the end
of the day, it's about using

973
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,800
what product best fits what
you're trying to do.

974
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,840
I mean, that's all that comes
out.

975
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,640
I am, I'm a realist.
I, I know that oil and gas and

976
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,520
petrochem and hydrocarbons,
those are absolutely going to be

977
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,280
a part of our, our energy for,
for quite a long time.

978
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,720
However, there are also a ton of
applications where using

979
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:47,320
batteries, using renewable
solar, wind, whatever might be

980
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,600
make more sense.
I mean, even looking at an EV,

981
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,200
for example, if you're a person
that has to drive a long way to

982
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,280
work every day and you're in
bumper to bumper stop and go

983
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,800
traffic every day, and EV is
probably not the right fit for

984
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,640
you and your in your driving
habits.

985
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,360
If you're a person that works
from home, you go to the

986
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,600
supermarket, you go to the gym,
you go to a few local places

987
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,000
that aren't very far and EV is a
far superior solution for you.

988
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,960
And so it's really just about,
you know, using the right

989
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,520
product for the right fit.
Yeah, well, I have a BMW and

990
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,400
believe me, you know, every time
I go in for an oil change, I'm

991
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,960
ready for an EV because, you
know, it's amazing what they for

992
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:30,400
foreign cars what an oil change.
Like take a guess what a BM WX5

993
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,040
oil change at the BMW dealership
costs.

994
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,840
Just, well, I'm certain I
wouldn't want to be paying it,

995
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,600
but I'm going to guess about
four or 500 bucks.

996
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:44,240
It's seven, I think it was 760
or 780 or something last time it

997
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,600
got done.
I mean, it's just, it's insane.

998
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,840
It's insane.
It's like, what the hell are you

999
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,120
using?
It ain't oil, you know, like,

1000
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,960
what are you putting in there?
But yeah.

1001
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,200
And if you look at an.
EV, you know, so obviously you

1002
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:58,600
still have to put energy into an
EV.

1003
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,440
So you're going to pay money to
the utility or to a charging

1004
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,360
facility to put kilowatt hours
in your car.

1005
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:04,880
Yeah, there's still a cost for
energy.

1006
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,480
There's still a cost to get
somewhere, but where they really

1007
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,240
shine is from a maintenance
standpoint, there is very little

1008
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,280
moving parts.
There's no oil, there's no

1009
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:14,720
coolant, there's none of that
stuff.

1010
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:18,320
So if you look at EV, you have
tires and you have brakes.

1011
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,480
Like those are the two main
components that have wearing and

1012
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,680
the battery batteries.
Are the scary?

1013
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,920
Part putting those off to the
side because they have a longer

1014
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,480
shelf life, I think, than most
people think.

1015
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,760
Yeah, but you got brakes and you
got tires.

1016
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,400
Those are the two consumables
that you need to replace with

1017
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,360
some sort of frequency.
But the oil change every 3000 or

1018
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:36,880
6000 miles?
Forget about it.

1019
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:40,080
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I guess you know, and

1020
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,440
this is probably similar with
with your business.

1021
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,400
One of the things that always
scares me about EVs is being,

1022
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,720
you know, in a country Rd.
somewhere in the middle of

1023
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:54,320
nowhere, 11:00 at night, and
realizing I should have charged

1024
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,800
when we were in that town four
hours ago or whatever.

1025
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,440
I'm about to lose power
completely.

1026
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,320
And you can't just take your
little gas can and walk down the

1027
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,680
street to Joey's Bait Shop and
gasoline.

1028
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,280
You know, you got to find a
charging station somewhere and

1029
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:17,240
then get your car to it somehow.
So that's always the part that

1030
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,280
scares me is that sort of
foreign.

1031
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,000
And I know it's getting better
all the time.

1032
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,320
There's more and more charging
stations and there's, you know,

1033
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,800
whatever.
But it it still seems to be the

1034
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,120
thing that that is a little
foreign to me, you know?

1035
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,600
It is, it's range anxiety and
it's absolutely real.

1036
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,800
And so it's definitely, when you
drive an EV, you absolutely have

1037
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,200
to get different habits and pay
attention to that.

1038
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:38,920
And you kind of triggered a
memory for me.

1039
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,640
Have you seen the Ewan McGregor
documentaries where he does the

1040
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,720
motorcycle trips?
So there's long way around.

1041
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,560
I think there's one called Long
Way Down, he did see.

1042
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,160
One of those, yeah.
I don't know which one, but I

1043
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,880
saw one of them.
So he's done 3.

1044
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,240
The most recent one is called
The Long Way Up and so on.

1045
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:57,840
This one, he drives from
Patagonia, I think to Seattle

1046
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,960
with his buddy Charlie.
They do it on their motorcycles.

1047
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,840
This time, though, they actually
do it on electric Harley's.

1048
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,560
And so it's a great film because
as they're starting in

1049
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,320
Patagonia, in these really rural
areas, they have a really hard

1050
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,800
time finding adequate charge to
get them where they got to go.

1051
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,120
And there's actually 1 scene
where basically they run out of

1052
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,920
all options and you end up
bringing in a diesel generator

1053
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,760
on a flatbed truck.
It parks and it charges them up.

1054
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,440
But as they get into more and
more civilized area with more

1055
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,960
infrastructure, with more
cities, with more large

1056
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,600
facilities, they get more and
more charging hardware and it

1057
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,240
becomes easier for them on their
trip.

1058
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,280
But I think it's just kind of a
funny film to watch that

1059
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,120
progression of of going from
this very rural area to more

1060
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,240
dense areas and kind of seeing
the challenges they went

1061
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:43,760
through.
Yeah, yeah.

1062
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,040
I mean, it just feels like
everybody should be carrying

1063
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,240
like a backpack with, you know,
full of batteries or something,

1064
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,560
which wouldn't get you through
airport security, I'm sure.

1065
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,520
But and.
Again, though, it's just about

1066
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,920
knowing what you're doing, and
if you're the kind of person

1067
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,200
that drives a long way and
you're in rush hour traffic,

1068
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:59,600
Evie is probably not the right
fit.

1069
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,840
Now, if you're driving in town,
it's a great fit.

1070
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,080
That's one of the things though,
like Elon, love him or hate him,

1071
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,200
but I think he's a mad genius.
But one of the things that he

1072
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,640
did very early on was all of the
logic that he built into the car

1073
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,000
so that it knows based on where
you're going it it's going to

1074
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,160
tell you where to fuel up
basically.

1075
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:26,000
And you know, all that trip
planning stuff, you know, is

1076
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,120
relatively foolproof if you
don't outsmart it.

1077
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,640
You know, you got to follow it,
you got to do what it tells you

1078
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,840
to do.
But you know, I mean, I've seen

1079
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:39,200
some of these charging stations
where there's like a a long wait

1080
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,200
to to charge.
And I'm sure California probably

1081
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,480
being one of the worst places
because you have the most in.

1082
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,440
California and, and those
problems are going to keep

1083
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,640
getting, getting eased.
I mean, as more and more

1084
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,880
charging infrastructure and
hardware goes into place, you

1085
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,640
know, there's going to be a
point where there is as many

1086
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,080
charging station as, as there
are gas stations.

1087
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,360
You know, the and as
supercharging and DC fast

1088
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,800
charging gets better and there's
and there's more of that, you

1089
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,000
know, the charge time is going
to come down as well.

1090
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,360
But also know some folks that
regularly do San Francisco to LA

1091
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,720
and there's plenty of charging
on the way.

1092
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,760
And they've actually taken it as
an opportunity where they know

1093
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,600
that, you know, when they, if
they were in an internal

1094
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,280
combustion car, they might have
stopped for gas for 10 minutes.

1095
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,200
They know when they stop now
it's going to probably be 30

1096
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,760
minutes to do a recharge.
But they've really embraced

1097
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:27,800
that.
They take the time to get out of

1098
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,920
the car to stretch, maybe catch
up on some works and emails.

1099
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,960
And so it's really just about
kind of shifting habits and kind

1100
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,120
of getting folks comfortable
with it.

1101
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,920
Yeah, it, well, it is different.
You can't pretend it's the same.

1102
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,600
It's completely different.
Yeah.

1103
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,520
So, you know, going back to our
business, I'm curious about the

1104
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,760
business model.
So, you know, you came from a

1105
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,120
manufacturer.
I'm sure that manufacturer was

1106
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,840
selling to basically rental
companies, dealers, whatever.

1107
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:01,840
So is the customer base sort of
like a hybrid like a Sunbelt or

1108
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,520
United who rents generators,
They rent power systems to

1109
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,240
people and they're just going to
start slipping these in there

1110
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,400
and then offering them as an
option to their customer base?

1111
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,040
Or is a bigger part of the
market like clean energy

1112
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:25,520
solutions company who waves the
flag of green energy is?

1113
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,440
It it's a little bit of both.
I mean, honestly a lot of it is

1114
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:29,880
optics.
They want to be able to go to

1115
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,160
the market and say, hey, we
offer these greener solutions,

1116
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,320
give them a try.
Some of them though, like

1117
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,320
Sunbelt in particular, they've
leaned into this harder than

1118
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,600
anyone else.
They have a huge fleet of mobile

1119
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,560
batteries in their fleet.
They've bought from multiple

1120
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,240
manufacturers.
They really see the future and

1121
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,360
they see this energy transition
and they see how many

1122
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,880
opportunities there are to put a
battery out where it's a

1123
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,240
superior solution to a
generator.

1124
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:54,560
So it's going to be a little bit
of both.

1125
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,680
But you know, when I was at the
manufacturer level selling the

1126
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,320
rental companies, you know, we
obviously had to go in there

1127
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,960
with various value propositions
to kind of help them see the

1128
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,640
future and help close the deal.
And the reality is just like an

1129
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,840
Eva mobile battery energy
storage unit that you're going

1130
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,040
to use instead of a diesel
generator has a significantly

1131
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,880
lower operating costs over this,
over the lifespan of that asset.

1132
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,240
There's no oil to change,
There's no coolant to change.

1133
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,320
There might only be one air
filter to change.

1134
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,720
But the wild thing was that was
the hardest pitch part of the

1135
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,280
pitch to get home to these
rental companies.

1136
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,760
We said, hey, this device may
cost 4 or 5X what you're going

1137
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:38,560
to pay for a diesel equivalent.
However, if you look to the 5 or

1138
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,160
10 year life of this asset in
your fleet and you aggregate

1139
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,200
your maintenance costs over that
time, it's going to be a wash.

1140
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,440
But it was really that was kind
of, we were at the infancy of

1141
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,560
getting them to understand that.
And so while that was a huge

1142
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,880
benefit, it wasn't yet fully at
like the front of their view of

1143
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,480
the benefit why they should go
that route.

1144
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,480
Yeah, I could also see it being
a little scary for companies

1145
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,640
like that that know, like if you
go to start a generator and it

1146
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,240
doesn't start, you know, you
check the plug, you check this,

1147
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,520
you check that, you know, they
know those systems inside out.

1148
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,120
It's just like trying to sell an
electric car to a guy at a

1149
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:19,760
farmhouse who's got, you know, a
Chevy something or other up on

1150
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,240
blocks in his driveway that he
works on.

1151
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,920
But, you know, he knows how to
fix that car.

1152
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,520
He knows when a car is making a
burping sound, what it's doing,

1153
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,760
why it's doing that, etc.
You're now trying to sell him

1154
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,360
this fancy new technology that
he can't fix anything on.

1155
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,280
You know, there's nothing I can
fix.

1156
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,200
So when it stops going, what do
I do?

1157
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,320
You know, Whereas now he knows
he can get himself out of

1158
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:43,440
trouble.
Yeah.

1159
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:44,880
And that absolutely factors into
it.

1160
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,640
I mean, these are technical,
sophisticated pieces of

1161
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:48,640
equipment.
Yeah.

1162
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,560
A lot of times the the battery
packs, you know, they run DC,

1163
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:53,600
they don't run AC.
They're typically either running

1164
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,600
at 400 or 800 Volt DC, which is
absolutely, you know, a

1165
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,400
dangerous power level that can
kill somebody.

1166
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,880
So it definitely takes
specialized training.

1167
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,880
It takes either upskilling the
current technicians they have or

1168
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,920
requires bringing in new
technicians that know this

1169
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,320
technology kind of from the from
the heart out.

1170
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,160
And so it's absolutely something
that they factor in when they're

1171
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,280
bringing this into their fleet.
It's like, oh great, I can rent

1172
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,840
it for more and my customers
like it, but do I have the means

1173
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,680
to maintain it?
And it's, it's definitely part

1174
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:21,520
of the equation.
Yep.

1175
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:29,240
Do you see a a day and when
where there are no diesel

1176
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,520
generators, you know where not
that they're banned, but that

1177
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,120
the other of the alternative is
so much better?

1178
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:36,440
Well.
I mean, I think there's two

1179
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,920
parts to your question.
So in the near future, like the

1180
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,520
next 10 years, I do not see a
world where it's just batteries.

1181
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,480
There are, you know, batteries,
a you know, aren't going to have

1182
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,240
enough output or storage, and
then B, there are sometimes

1183
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,480
pieces of machinery that you
just need pure horsepower.

1184
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,320
And so like on a, from a mobile
diesel generator standpoint, the

1185
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,320
biggest mobile diesel generators
out there are 2000 kilowatts.

1186
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,400
There are motors in refineries
or manufacturing plants that are

1187
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,560
so large that it takes a single
2000 kilowatt generator just to

1188
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,240
start that motor.
And so there's absolutely.

1189
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,680
You know, a ton of applications
where there's just a battery,

1190
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,560
there's no way it can actually
handle the inrush load that a

1191
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,160
big engine can handle.
And so there's always going to

1192
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,880
be some of those.
But as the batteries get better

1193
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,600
and they get bigger, there's
absolutely going to be more

1194
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,520
batteries kind of inching into
that space.

1195
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,360
I think the second part of your
question was more, you know,

1196
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,680
related to regulatory,
regulatory framework.

1197
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,400
And absolutely, that is where
you're going to see more

1198
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,600
situations where, you know,
government, whether that be

1199
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,360
state, federal, local, city,
they start having more strict

1200
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,320
requirements for air quality for
when you can run a diesel

1201
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,480
generator when you can't.
And you know, that's going to

1202
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,400
push some customers or some
markets into the technology

1203
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,360
sooner.
In California, there's a state

1204
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,640
entity called CARB.
It stands for the California Air

1205
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,320
Resource Board.
So that entity is in charge of

1206
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,000
anything with an engine that
spits out emissions.

1207
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,640
They're in charge of managing
that.

1208
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,920
They are making it more and more
difficult to permit diesel

1209
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,400
driven engines.
And so as they make more and

1210
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,360
more sizes harder to permit,
there's absolutely just going to

1211
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,320
be the need to backfill that
with batteries.

1212
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,360
And so on the on the regulatory
side, you're definitely going to

1213
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,680
see that push push some areas in
sooner.

1214
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,560
Like from a federal level,
Australia is way ahead of game

1215
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,240
in this department.
So there's a company in

1216
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,600
Australia called Mint MYNT and
they are a manufacturer of

1217
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:38,400
batteries of hydrogen generators
of various green energy sources.

1218
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,760
And their business is absolutely
blowing up.

1219
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,040
And it's a lot of it is related
to the government there.

1220
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,520
Like if you're doing a massive
infrastructure project there

1221
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,840
where you're building a highway
or you're building a school

1222
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,840
that's funded with federal
money, there's a an actual hard

1223
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,560
requirement that any technology
that can be a greener source

1224
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,840
must be.
And so I think we'll see more of

1225
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,960
that in the US Obviously it
depends on whatever

1226
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:03,680
administration is in there.
But regardless of the federal

1227
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,640
government in the EPA, there's
absolutely, you know, states

1228
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,480
that are more forward leaning.
You know, think of some states

1229
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,360
on the Northeast, you think of
Washington, you think

1230
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,200
California, where at the state
level they're going to have much

1231
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,920
strict air requirements and
that's going to force the

1232
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,720
industry to start adopting
batteries sooner.

1233
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:25,600
Yeah, to me, the the issue even
beyond cost seems to be charging

1234
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:30,360
infrastructure like, you know,
if solar panels could get to,

1235
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:35,840
you know, 90% smaller or, you
know, I don't know, maybe

1236
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,560
there's some other magical
charging solution coming from

1237
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,920
the skies at some point.
But it that seems to be the

1238
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,880
problem to me, because if you
could, if you could more easily

1239
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:52,600
charge them, then I could see a
situation where you wouldn't

1240
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,280
need generators at all.
Like what would you?

1241
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:58,680
Why would you have diesel messy,
stinky generators that break all

1242
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,960
the time if you could have these
super efficient, reliable

1243
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:07,400
batteries?
So yeah, I mean that that to me

1244
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,600
seems the problem.
Like if I were looking at myself

1245
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,720
as a consumer, if I want an
electric car, if I want, you

1246
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,440
know, my house powered by an
electric generator in the event

1247
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:22,360
or an electric power source in
the event of a storm or a show

1248
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,920
powered by, you know, to me it
comes down to charging

1249
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,920
solutions.
You know, how painful is it?

1250
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,280
You know, what additional
equipment am I going to need all

1251
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,560
of those types of things.
And that would still to me be

1252
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,880
the deterrent probably.
And so I'm sure those things are

1253
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,200
being worked out.
One other question that I have

1254
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:42,440
related.
To can I, can I just touch on

1255
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:43,760
something real quick?
Of course.

1256
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,120
So I'm just going to paint a
hypothetical that is a

1257
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,400
hypothetical now.
But I am confident if you and I

1258
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,760
talked again in five years, it
will not be a hypothetical and

1259
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,480
it'll be part of the way
entertainment and events are

1260
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,520
done.
So right now, think of

1261
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,200
Coachella.
You have a bunch of big

1262
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,160
generators backstage behind the
mainstage.

1263
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,600
They have big fuel tanks that
have diesel in it.

1264
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,200
Diesel is actually energy
storage.

1265
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:08,520
You are storing electrons via a
liquid fuel, and that generator

1266
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,680
burns that fuel.
It produces, you know, power

1267
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,040
that is then consumed by the
stage.

1268
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,640
A big diesel truck comes in.
It's usually overnight or when

1269
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,560
there's not a big crowd there.
They roll out a big fuel hose.

1270
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,560
They top those tanks off and put
a bunch more energy in those

1271
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,680
tanks.
There will be a world where

1272
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,320
instead of those being two big
diesel generators backstage, it

1273
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,080
will be two big batteries
backstage.

1274
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,480
And there will be a company that
has a big battery on a truck

1275
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:37,800
that they charged at their
facility 50 miles away, either

1276
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,440
via solar, via wind, via green
energy credits, whatever it

1277
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,560
might be.
They're going to roll that big

1278
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,600
battery to the job site.
And instead of pulling out a

1279
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,280
fuel hose, they're going to pull
out a big power cable.

1280
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,120
They're going to plug it into
those batteries.

1281
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,640
They're going to dump the
electrons via electrons, you

1282
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,840
know, directly electric instead
of fuel, and that all those

1283
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,920
machines on site are going to
get topped up and they're going

1284
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:00,320
to be ready for the next day.
Yeah.

1285
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,480
So there's absolutely.
Yeah, I'm excited for that

1286
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,280
future because it's going to be
really cool when that happens

1287
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,000
because all of a sudden, you're
right, there will not be any of

1288
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,880
these big stinky machines around
that breakdown all the time.

1289
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:15,760
Yeah, Another question is, you
know, I know with generators

1290
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,000
like, you know, my, my son is a
racing driver and we've been in

1291
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,920
the racing business for a while,
which Neil and I talked about.

1292
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:28,800
And all of these racing teams,
they've always had like super

1293
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,640
reliable Honda, you know,
whether it's A6000 or A10K

1294
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,680
generator powering their, their
race tent.

1295
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:43,520
And more recently, like over the
last probably 3 or 4 years, I've

1296
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,400
seen a lot of these being these
off brand things you know, that

1297
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,280
they're buying either on
Amazon.com or at Walmart or God

1298
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,480
knows where they're buying them,
but you're getting the same

1299
01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:01,960
10,000 watts you're getting
you're getting similar quality,

1300
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:06,000
it seems anyways, you're getting
the same amount of sound because

1301
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,160
it used to be if you if you got
a cheap generator, it was loud

1302
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,040
as Helen, everyone on the
paddock hated you at at these

1303
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,280
race events.
But now you can get a basically

1304
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:20,720
a Honda RIP off for, you know,
75% less money is the.

1305
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:23,000
Same thing happen.
Is the same thing happening in

1306
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,080
batteries yet?
Absolutely.

1307
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,720
I mean, here's the reality.
So any of these LFP cells, which

1308
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,440
is becoming the predominant,
predominant chemistry for these

1309
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:34,920
batteries is made in China.
I mean, every single one of

1310
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:36,800
them.
And a lot of times people are

1311
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:38,840
either buying the cells or
they're buying the modules from

1312
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,600
China.
They're then assembling them

1313
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,520
into their own machine either in
the States or Europe, Australia,

1314
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,200
wherever it might be.
There are absolutely cheaper

1315
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,080
competitors coming out there
that are building direct in

1316
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,720
China.
Now, you know, the flip side of

1317
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:53,760
that is batteries actually have
grading.

1318
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:57,520
There's grade A, there's grade
B, there's grade C and grade B

1319
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,600
batteries have some sort of
anomaly where they're not

1320
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,400
perfect like a grade A.
And a lot of, I think these

1321
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,720
these up and comers that are
making cheaper products are

1322
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:07,880
doing them with the grade B
batteries, which are a little

1323
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,560
bit cheaper and not nearly as
reliable.

1324
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,800
The folks that are still making
the expensive ones are using

1325
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:13,440
grade A.
So there definitely is, you

1326
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,000
know, I think some quality
concerns with the cheaper stuff

1327
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,160
coming up.
But there will be a point where

1328
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,560
all the me twos that are coming
out of the market now that are

1329
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:23,720
kind of copying and doing the
same things where their

1330
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,160
technology will catch up and
you'll see a similar scenario.

1331
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,320
Absolutely.
That seems to be a cycle in

1332
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,040
innovation anyways.
You know it, it happens like

1333
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,400
you, you got the early, the
early guys who come in like you,

1334
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,960
like Neil, who create a market,
get some excitement going,

1335
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,400
create a product to to fill that
market.

1336
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,280
And then China doesn't usually
get really extremely interested

1337
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,960
until it's big enough.
You know, once it's big enough,

1338
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,200
then they jump all over it and
you have a whole bunch of

1339
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,120
Chinese competitors or you know,
India or wherever.

1340
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,600
I'm not picking on China, but it
just usually seems to be China.

1341
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,560
And moving lights, right?
I mean, because remember how

1342
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,120
expensive they used to be when
it was Mac and it was Martin and

1343
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:06,920
it was Verilite and those were
options.

1344
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,480
And there's so many other
options now that are 1/4 of the

1345
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,200
price.
And they're all good.

1346
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,520
You know, there's certainly
levels of good, but they're all

1347
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,279
good.
Like we talked about this almost

1348
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:22,279
every episode on my podcast is
technology from the off brand

1349
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:24,920
that you've never heard of all
the way to the verilites of

1350
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:26,359
today.
By the way, verilite is made in

1351
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:28,800
China now.
All of the popular verilite

1352
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,720
fixtures are made by a company
in China called Acme Lighting.

1353
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:36,240
And Martin, a lot of their stuff
is made in China now.

1354
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,040
Most of it now is not made in
China anymore.

1355
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:42,319
They've opened a pretty big
factory in in Hungary now

1356
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:46,560
because they're owned by Samsung
and and they've got the the

1357
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,640
capital to be able to do those
kinds of things.

1358
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,240
But you know, it's definitely
different.

1359
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,080
But again, Chinese didn't get
involved until the market was

1360
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:57,479
interesting enough.
And they can reverse engineer

1361
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,160
hardware pretty quickly, but
it's usually the software that

1362
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,080
takes them a lot longer to
figure out and to get it right.

1363
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,840
That's usually where a lot of
your problems are in the

1364
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,760
software side of things.
But China's gotten so much

1365
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,160
better.
Chinese manufacturing isn't what

1366
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,240
it was 10 years ago, 15 years
ago.

1367
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:16,840
When I think about LED walls,
right, I mean, remember when

1368
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,040
Barco was the king and like that
was like the that was like the

1369
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:23,640
top tier LED wall that everybody
used, made in Belgium, very

1370
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,800
expensive.
Chinese competitors started

1371
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,120
coming up.
And now Roe is the biggest LED

1372
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,240
wall supplier out there.
They're made in China.

1373
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:33,680
It's run by Chinese, but they
have good quality control.

1374
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,560
You know, they make a very
consistent product.

1375
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,920
So when tours want to buy, you
know, thousands of square feet

1376
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:40,920
of them, they're confident,
comfortable doing it.

1377
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,359
Yeah, Yeah.
And it's an interesting space to

1378
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:46,880
see that happen in in it took a
while to Battery World as well.

1379
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,000
It took a while for the LED
stuff to get to China because

1380
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:54,680
it, it, you're right, like Barco
was one of the big starters of

1381
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,280
that business.
But then Korea, Korea got

1382
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,920
really, really good at, at LED
screens and most of the good

1383
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,360
stuff was coming out of either
Korea or Taiwan early on.

1384
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:08,320
And then eventually that China
just completely took over and

1385
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:09,920
dominated the market.
Well, you mentioned.

1386
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:14,800
Absent and info lid and there's
lots of really great brands in

1387
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:16,880
China now.
So you mentioned the software

1388
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,960
piece a little bit earlier, and
I think that's still where

1389
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,360
suppliers like Neil and
OverDrive Energy Solutions

1390
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,480
really shine.
Because at the end of the day,

1391
01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:28,720
there will be become a moment in
time where nobody cares whose

1392
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,880
name's on the battery box.
They just know it's a battery

1393
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:32,680
that works.
But it's going to be the

1394
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,720
software and the service that
really defines kind of who wins

1395
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,280
and who loses.
And you know, for all these

1396
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,760
deployments, what the customers
want to see is they say, OK,

1397
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:44,040
great, you're bringing me this
green energy solution.

1398
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,560
You're telling me it reduces
carbon, You're telling me it

1399
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:50,320
reduces fuel spend.
They want real actionable data

1400
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,800
that they can chew and digest
and share with all their

1401
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,560
relevant stakeholders.
And so, you know, building a

1402
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,360
business around having a really
robust software system that

1403
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,920
monitors everything in real time
and then can spit out reports at

1404
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:05,520
the end that really define and
show the savings.

1405
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,960
I mean, that's really where the
people are going to come to the

1406
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:09,920
forefront of this and kind of be
the top players.

1407
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,080
Yeah.
So in your notes that you sent

1408
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,200
us, you sent me a couple of
horror stories.

1409
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:19,440
One was a Google IO show or a
Google IO event.

1410
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,800
Tell me about that one.
So that was in my my decent

1411
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,160
generator days.
I was working at a Greco as a

1412
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,920
sales Rep.
That show is at Shoreline

1413
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,560
Amphitheater, Mountain View,
which is a huge amphitheater.

1414
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,880
I think Live Nation manages it.
You know, they do massive shows

1415
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:40,320
there all the time.
So the main keynote was on the

1416
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,560
mainstage.
There was also a bunch of tents

1417
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,600
all around that venue.
All of the stuff outside of the

1418
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,640
mainstage was all being done by
diesel generators, by another

1419
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,560
big player in the entertainment
power space.

1420
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:55,320
The mainstage, they were using
house power and for whatever

1421
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:59,120
reason, PG&E, who is local power
company in that area, had some

1422
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,040
issues.
So they're doing rehearsals.

1423
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,240
The CEO of Google is on stage
rehearsing Power goes out and

1424
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:07,640
this is one of those facilities
where power doesn't typically go

1425
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,920
out because they've got, I think
backup feeders coming in there.

1426
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,360
Anyhow, power goes out, So they
get a hold of me and say, hey,

1427
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:14,760
we need you guys to do power
here.

1428
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,920
Great.
So I come down, do a job, walk

1429
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,760
power the show off of way
oversized generators.

1430
01:12:23,480 --> 01:12:25,760
You know, we do a post show on
that job and we realize we

1431
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:28,560
probably had three times the
capacity that we needed for that

1432
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,520
show.
So the next year they called me

1433
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:32,800
again and said, hey, you know,
we don't want to rely on utility

1434
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,560
power.
We want to do generators, but we

1435
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:37,560
need smaller generators.
We need a smaller footprint.

1436
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,720
What can you do?
Here's where we want them.

1437
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,240
So the TD and I walked it.
It was this asphalt corridor

1438
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,640
kind of on the side of the
mainstage at that point, you

1439
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,560
know, I'm not the TDI am a
vendor supplying generators.

1440
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:50,880
He and I and I asked the
question.

1441
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,680
I said, like, are we certain the
ground here can support these

1442
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,520
generators?
We're good, We're good, we're

1443
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,160
good.
And again, he probably didn't

1444
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,160
actually even know either, but
it looked like solid ground.

1445
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:04,600
So he said yeah, we're good.
So a couple weeks later we come

1446
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:07,960
in, I think it was three or 4500
kilowatt generators.

1447
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,840
I had taken them off the trailer
and put them on flatbeds and the

1448
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:15,160
plan was to use a forklift,
offload those generators, place

1449
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,640
them on the ground.
Well, it was a really, really

1450
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,320
tight area.
So the only forklift that could

1451
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,640
lift that capacity and fit in
the footprint was an actual,

1452
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:25,000
what they call a container
forklift.

1453
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,960
So it's a forklift that's meant
to go inside of a shipping

1454
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:30,040
container, but it had a capacity
of 25,000 lbs.

1455
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,080
So it was a very beefy, stout
forklift.

1456
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,480
So the truck backs in.
I have a technician on the

1457
01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:38,080
forklift.
He goes and he picks up the

1458
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,960
generator.
The truck pulls away, he's

1459
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,120
lowering it.
The entire generator, the

1460
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:48,160
forklift, the whole package
sinks into the asphalt about 12

1461
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:49,840
or 18 inches.
So of course, we're all going,

1462
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,440
oh shit, what do we do here?
TD came over, a customer came

1463
01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:56,520
over, producer came over.
You know, everybody's pointing

1464
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,920
fingers, everybody's up in arms,
and I'm a problem solver.

1465
01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:02,800
Like at the end of the day, we
can figure out whose fault it is

1466
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:04,960
later and do all that kind of
part of it.

1467
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:06,880
I said, guys, we got to get
this.

1468
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,840
These generators in today.
You guys need power by 4:00 PM

1469
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:11,120
today.
That was the agreement.

1470
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,200
I can make it happen.
I had a lot of contacts, so I

1471
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,920
called, you know, a crane and
rigging supplier I knew in town

1472
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,840
called Biggie Crane and Rigging.
They're one of the biggest crane

1473
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,000
suppliers in North America.
My sales Rep there is a total

1474
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,080
stud, the kind of guy that I
could call him and he could have

1475
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,640
a a big crane there in a couple
of hours.

1476
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:31,720
So before I even get permission
from them, I just make the call.

1477
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,480
I knew that was the only way the
generators were going to get

1478
01:14:34,480 --> 01:14:37,440
placed.
So 2 hours later, 100 ton boom

1479
01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:39,600
crane shows up.
They're out in the parking lot

1480
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,280
doing all their outriggers and
getting everything prepped.

1481
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:44,160
Everybody's looking at me like
what are you doing?

1482
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,080
I said the show must go on like
I'm getting stuff done here.

1483
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,880
So you know, Long story short,
they flew all those generators

1484
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,400
in from the parking lot.
It was about a 200 foot pick,

1485
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:55,520
which you know means they got to
pick it from one spot and bring

1486
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,480
it about 200 feet over.
The crane didn't need to be 100

1487
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:01,440
ton crane, it just needed to be
that size because of how far out

1488
01:15:01,480 --> 01:15:04,560
the boom was going to extend.
So the wild thing was two hours

1489
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:05,960
later, I mean, these guys did
quick work.

1490
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,960
We had all those generators
placed, crane packed up, moved

1491
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,560
away.
Crane ended up costing about

1492
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,440
$10,000.
So of course at the end of the

1493
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:16,680
show, you know, once we got
through the show, it was kind of

1494
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,840
that everyone's pointing fingers
and I just said, look, guys,

1495
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,160
this, it was not possible to put
the generators there.

1496
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:25,960
You guys told me it was, I said,
you know, we, we do need a bill

1497
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:27,200
for the crane.
We just won't mark it up.

1498
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:29,120
And so at the end of the day,
customer paid the bill.

1499
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,880
It was all good, but it was just
kind of one of those horror

1500
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,120
stories where in the moment, you
know, you're pulling your hair

1501
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,040
out and going, Oh my God, how
are we going to get this done?

1502
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:40,360
But you know, we got it done.
Yeah, Yeah, You know, I, I love,

1503
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:43,840
hate those stories because it's
one of the cool things about our

1504
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,160
industry in general, whether
it's a lighting company, sound

1505
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:51,080
company, power company, we're
problem solvers, you know, and,

1506
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:55,120
and I remember during COVID so
many times it came up because I

1507
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:59,480
was doing AI was doing a weekly
Zoom call during COVID that was

1508
01:15:59,480 --> 01:16:02,680
just like a happy hour every
Wednesday at 5:00 Eastern.

1509
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,600
And it was just a drop in.
Anybody could come.

1510
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:09,840
It would be lighting people,
audio people, trade show people,

1511
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:14,760
whatever.
Production managers, managers,

1512
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,120
you know, anyone from our
industry could pop in.

1513
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:20,560
And so it'd be 50 to 100 people
usually.

1514
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:27,200
And a lot of times, you know, we
would talk about what's going on

1515
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:31,080
out there.
And eventually we ventured into

1516
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:34,080
how could we do shows again, you
know, because we're all sitting

1517
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,200
here with nothing to do.
How can we do shows again?

1518
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,960
And so many ideas of how to
safely do shows like that

1519
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:44,800
weren't, you know, these little
8 by 8 squares with four people

1520
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,320
in each one or whatever.
It was like all these crazy

1521
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,440
ideas that were just unbankable.
Like you couldn't do it.

1522
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,720
It just didn't make any
financial sense, but so many

1523
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:55,520
great ideas came from all of
that.

1524
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:59,000
And it, it just constantly
reminds me that if you want

1525
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,760
something done, you come to this
industry, you know, whether

1526
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:07,160
it's, I don't care what it is,
You know, it's like 10-15 years

1527
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,680
ago when healthcare costs were
going through the roof and I was

1528
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,920
complaining to my CFO at the
time going, why is our health

1529
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:15,880
insurance that we're paying for
our staff?

1530
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,120
Why is it double what it was a
couple years ago?

1531
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,480
And I, I just remember saying to
somebody, why don't you just

1532
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:27,040
hand healthcare to like Google,
you know, give it to one of

1533
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,840
these for profit companies that
figures out how to knock the

1534
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:35,560
cost out of things and do it for
free and just put some tech to

1535
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,880
it and put some smart people on
it and get it handled, you know,

1536
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,240
and that's what our industry
always reminds me of.

1537
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:44,120
Well, and I think in my years as
a TDI mean when I, you know, TD

1538
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:48,480
shows in the high tech world, it
was that was every job was there

1539
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:51,400
was going to be a fire somewhere
and it was kind of like, how do

1540
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,360
you how do you solve for it?
I mean, I remember having

1541
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:55,680
Southwest Cargo, you know,
Southwest Airlines has that

1542
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:57,440
cargo department.
I had them on speed dial and

1543
01:17:57,440 --> 01:18:00,360
every single show there would be
at least two or three drops

1544
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,880
where I'd have my shot back in
San Jose heading to the airport,

1545
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,760
dropping a flight case 3 hours,
four hours later it would show

1546
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,160
up and I'd have that thing to,
you know, to get fix that

1547
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,680
problem.
Yeah, I know.

1548
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,560
That's that's again, it's one of
the things I love about our

1549
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,400
industry because shit is going
to go wrong.

1550
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:19,760
Problems are going to happen.
And at the end of the day,

1551
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,960
instead of just panicking and
running around going, Oh my God,

1552
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,120
you know, I got no power.
I got no whatever.

1553
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:27,920
You just go, OK, You know what
happened here?

1554
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,720
What can we do to make sure
everybody's safe?

1555
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:31,960
OK, now let's get the show
turned back on again.

1556
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:34,680
And you just reminded me of a
story, though.

1557
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:37,920
There was a time where I had a a
young kid in the audio

1558
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:39,280
department.
He was an A2.

1559
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:40,480
He was kind of working his way
up.

1560
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:42,680
I had him working like a side
room at a corporate gig.

1561
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:44,640
And I was the TD in the main
room.

1562
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:46,480
He kept coming in and saying,
what about this?

1563
01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:48,080
What about this?
And I finally looked at him.

1564
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,000
I said, Antonio, I said, you
know what you're doing?

1565
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:53,680
You're smart.
I said, you don't need to come

1566
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:54,960
to me.
I said, when these problems come

1567
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,160
up, just ask yourself, is the
customer going to be happy and

1568
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:00,160
is it safe?
And as long as those two things

1569
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,280
are met, I trust you to make the
decision.

1570
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:05,320
And it was like he thanked me.
Years later he said you changed

1571
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:07,280
my whole outlook and my
confidence.

1572
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:08,720
And it was just the truth
though.

1573
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,880
It was like, you know what
you're doing, be safe and be

1574
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:12,840
customer focused and everything
else will work out.

1575
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:16,680
You changed your own life too,
because you know, unfortunately,

1576
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:20,240
as business leaders, you know,
certainly myself, I fall into

1577
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:23,080
this even still after I've been
doing this as long as I have

1578
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,240
where people bring you all their
problems and I'm a fix it guy.

1579
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:31,280
So I immediately roll up my
sleeves and start going, well, I

1580
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,040
could do this and I could do
this and I could do this.

1581
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,240
And I and it's really hard to
just push back and say, Bob,

1582
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:38,760
what would you do?
You know, John, what would you

1583
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,400
do?
And let them fix their own

1584
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:46,280
problem or, or our own problem,
whoever's problem it is instead

1585
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:50,040
of, you know, because I always
find that by solving everyone's

1586
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,600
problems for them or fixing all
the problems, they quit.

1587
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:57,280
They, they just, even in
meetings, like people will not

1588
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,800
put in any ideas anymore because
they just think, well, at the

1589
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,200
end of the day, Tim's going to
Tim's going to have the best

1590
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:05,640
ideas, so he doesn't need mine.
Well, at that moment it may be

1591
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,160
the easier thing to do, but
you're really doing them a

1592
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,280
disservice because again, like
you said, yeah, you take them

1593
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,280
out of forward thinking and
problem solving.

1594
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:15,920
And it's like you want to build
a team around you of people that

1595
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:18,720
can all problem solve on their
own and not just always come to

1596
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,560
you for the answer.
That to me is management 101

1597
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:26,120
like it is just it's one of the
most important things is hire

1598
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:30,640
great people and then let them
do their job, you know, and and

1599
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:35,440
step aside, get out of the way
and you know, same thing for the

1600
01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:39,680
government, you know, give me
give me incentives to have a

1601
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,240
business and then stay out of my
way and let me do my business.

1602
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,840
So what else?
What have we missed here?

1603
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:50,360
Like it.
So what one of the big questions

1604
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:53,600
too that I had even just reading
through your notes and stuff is

1605
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:57,960
going from sound and lighting
and production and shows and

1606
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:02,480
stuff like that to selling power
rentals to me seems really

1607
01:21:02,480 --> 01:21:05,640
boring.
Like was that just a leap of

1608
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:10,280
faith or, or it, it just seems
it's, I shouldn't say it seems

1609
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:14,120
boring because that really is
demeaning, but it seems less

1610
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:18,440
exciting than all the automated
lighting technology and digital

1611
01:21:18,480 --> 01:21:20,560
audio technology and all that
stuff.

1612
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:24,240
And now I'm selling generators.
Well, part of it came down to a

1613
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,040
quality of life thing.
You know, I mentioned I think it

1614
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:28,520
was more pre a pre call that,
you know, I actually ruined a

1615
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:31,480
relationship because of that.
I traveled about 250 days a year

1616
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:35,320
and so that was.
Tough on a relationship?

1617
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,520
And so that was part of a reason
for doing a career shift, but it

1618
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:39,960
also ended up being financial.
I mean, I made a ton of money

1619
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:42,440
being a generator sales Rep.
And you know, I worked my ass

1620
01:21:42,440 --> 01:21:44,520
off.
I sold a lot and I, I earned

1621
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,360
what I made.
But from a quality of life

1622
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:47,840
standpoint, I was home a lot
more.

1623
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:52,920
I made a lot more money, but
from a dynamic work standpoint,

1624
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:57,560
it absolutely is a hugely
rewarding job because you are

1625
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,760
out on so many different job
sites.

1626
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,200
I can tell you that I've learned
about so many different

1627
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:05,440
industries that I would have
never known anything about had I

1628
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:09,760
not been in power generation.
So, you know, my day could start

1629
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:13,560
at A at a high tech plant.
I could then go to a food

1630
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,920
processing plant.
I could then end up at a winery

1631
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:18,520
to Google loading a show on at
Shoreline.

1632
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:20,680
I mean, I honestly, God, there
were days where I would visit

1633
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:23,120
four types of customers like
that over the course of the day

1634
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,840
and really get to learn about
industries that I really knew

1635
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,400
nothing about.
And I'm the kind of person that

1636
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:29,160
really craves knowledge and
learning.

1637
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:33,200
And I asked a ton of questions.
I'll go to job sites that, you

1638
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:34,800
know, I'll ask questions about
power because that's why I'm

1639
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,560
there.
Sometimes I end up sitting with

1640
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,000
the person for an extra hour
bullshitting about a bunch of

1641
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:41,760
other stuff about wine making
just because I'm curious.

1642
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:43,440
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that.

1643
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,760
Well, and also just to be able
to be on the cutting edge of of

1644
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,240
this newer battery technology as
well.

1645
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:53,400
I mean, it it's, it's obviously
got legs and it's obviously

1646
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:59,000
going to be a massive thing,
whether that's next year or the

1647
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,960
year after or it it's a slow
growth or whatever it is.

1648
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:06,840
But it seems obvious to me that
that diesel generators are part

1649
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:11,480
of our past and batteries are
part of our future cars.

1650
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,400
You know, I'm a bit of a car nut
and I struggle with the idea

1651
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:19,480
that at some point there's not
going to be an option other than

1652
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,920
electric cars.
You know, I will definitely miss

1653
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:27,560
hitting the gas and having that
feeling and sound of, of a, of a

1654
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:30,480
gas engine, you know.
Yeah, that's from the, from the

1655
01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:32,480
mobile battery standpoint.
I mean the growth curve, you

1656
01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:35,360
know, it's still going up kind
of at a slight angle, but it is

1657
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:37,960
going to absolutely take off
like a rocket here sooner than

1658
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:39,000
later.
Yeah.

1659
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,600
And on the and on the EV front,
you know, I think there's, I

1660
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:43,560
think there's a time and a place
for both vehicles.

1661
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:45,400
I fully understand and respect
your point.

1662
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:47,960
I mean, when you have AV8 with a
really loud exhaust and you get

1663
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:49,840
the gas, there's nothing like
that.

1664
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:52,800
But you know, I, I'm sure you
saw the news the other day where

1665
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,720
that electric vehicle set the
rate, the the track record.

1666
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,040
I think it was Nuremberg or I
don't know how you say it.

1667
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:03,920
Yeah, Nuremberg, but yeah, 100%.
So, you know, Tesla, one time I

1668
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:08,480
used to drive an Audi R8, which
is sort of a fancy sports car,

1669
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,800
and a Tesla dealership.
I just wanted to look at a car.

1670
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:14,800
This was, I don't know, maybe
five years ago.

1671
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:17,920
And they said, why don't you
take one for the weekend?

1672
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:20,320
And I said, what do you mean?
And he said, yeah, you can just

1673
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,640
leave your car in our lot here.
And.

1674
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:26,920
Take take.
Take a Model S and So what they

1675
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:32,360
gave me was called AP100D.
This was before the Plaid.

1676
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,280
So now they have the Plaid,
which is just crazy fast.

1677
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:40,040
But the P100D at the time was
the fastest car that they had

1678
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:45,640
and I think it was zero to 60 in
like 2.1 seconds.

1679
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,120
And I think the Plaid now is
down to like 1.7 or something

1680
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:50,200
insane.
Yep.

1681
01:24:51,440 --> 01:24:55,480
And you know, my Audi R8, which
is somewhat of a supercar was

1682
01:24:55,480 --> 01:24:58,960
like 3 seconds, you know, or 3.1
seconds.

1683
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:04,480
So the thing was crazy to drive.
It felt to me like driving an

1684
01:25:04,480 --> 01:25:08,800
iPhone sort of, you know, like
it just felt so predictable and

1685
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,680
so whatever.
But I mean, when you hit the

1686
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:14,640
accelerator and that thing pins
you to the back of the seat, it

1687
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,680
was, it was pretty interesting.
It was like, and when you're

1688
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,200
going 60 miles an hour and you
hit the accelerator, it's the

1689
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:24,080
same feeling, you know, it's,
it's like all acceleration, all

1690
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,920
the time, all torque, all the
time.

1691
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:29,560
And so that was fun.
And the other thing that was

1692
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:31,760
fun, I took it down to the keys
for the weekend with my

1693
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:36,480
girlfriend, and the valet would
take my car when we checked into

1694
01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:40,720
the hotel and I'd go to grab it
the next morning and it'd be

1695
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,040
full.
Like they had a charging station

1696
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,240
there and they just charged it
up for me every night.

1697
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:47,960
And every morning it was full
again.

1698
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:50,680
And I was like, well, this is
cool at no charge.

1699
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,240
And so, yeah, there were some
things I liked about it, but I

1700
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,160
was really happy to jump back in
my Audi.

1701
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,880
I mean that that the the torque
is always what blows me away

1702
01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:02,200
with driving in the EVI mean
when you hit that pedal and it

1703
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:05,080
slams your head back into the
headrest and all of a sudden

1704
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:06,920
that 60 or 70, I mean, it's
startling.

1705
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,520
I mean, IA while back was at a
customer site, they had F-150

1706
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:12,080
lightnings, which I had never
driven.

1707
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:13,400
And she's like, Hey, you want to
take it for a spin?

1708
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:17,560
And I was like, sure, she throws
me the keys and I literally I

1709
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,080
got scared.
I mean, because I hit the gas

1710
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,640
going down that road and it was
all of a sudden I was at 60 and

1711
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:23,800
I was on like a, you know, 35 an
hour St.

1712
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:26,840
And they definitely take a
little bit of used to getting

1713
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:28,520
driving as well.
Because when you let off the

1714
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:30,800
gas, you know, they tend to kind
of bog down a little bit more

1715
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:32,160
because there's kind of that
recharge.

1716
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:35,440
And I know you can adjust that
setting, but every time I drive

1717
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:37,920
one, it's definitely takes a
little bit of of adjusting for

1718
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:40,760
me to get comfortable in it.
Well, you know, the other thing

1719
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:45,720
that's really cool now is the
the full autonomous stuff where

1720
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,720
you literally can just let go of
the steering wheel and text your

1721
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,840
friends or do whatever it is you
want to do.

1722
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,880
Like when I had the Tesla just
for the weekend, it was still

1723
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:58,520
relatively early stage in that.
And so every, I think it was

1724
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:01,560
every 10 seconds, you had to put
your hands on the steering wheel

1725
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:03,840
or else it would basically shut
itself off.

1726
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:06,200
And making sure you're not in
the back in a sleeping bag

1727
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:08,560
sleeping.
Or sitting doing texting, which

1728
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:10,000
I was.
Yeah, you know.

1729
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,440
So I mean, it was cool cuz you
know, as a business guy, my

1730
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:17,360
phone's constantly going, you
know, constantly.

1731
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,680
And so when you can every few
minutes take your hands off the

1732
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:23,560
wheel.
And I mean, if you're just on a,

1733
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:26,320
on a freeway that's just going
straight, I'm not too worried

1734
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:28,040
about it.
Where I found it got a bit

1735
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:31,520
sketchy was when there were like
off ramps and it would try to

1736
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,320
take the off ramp or it would
fight you not to take the off

1737
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,200
ramp or things like that.
Like it seemed to still get a

1738
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:40,520
bit confused.
Yeah, But, you know, it's fun.

1739
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,320
I can definitely see where it's
going.

1740
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:45,800
I'm probably going to have one
at some point, but I'll probably

1741
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:48,960
still be a fighter and I'll
still keep some sort of a gas

1742
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:50,240
car as well.
Yeah.

1743
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:53,000
And full transparency, I, you
know, I still drive a Dodge Ram

1744
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,360
with AV8 Hemi in it.
And, you know, I do a lot of

1745
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,000
towing.
I do a lot of work.

1746
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,080
I have a property, a couple
acres, so I'm always going to

1747
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:00,440
the lumber store and stuff like
that.

1748
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:02,520
Yeah.
And for those sorts of runs, I

1749
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,160
know that, like, I, you know, an
EV truck is probably not the

1750
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:06,360
right fit now.
Now.

1751
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:07,440
Yeah.
In the future, if there's a

1752
01:28:07,440 --> 01:28:10,080
truck that can allow me to tow a
good distance and carry a good

1753
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:13,400
payload with, you know, with
range, I'm absolutely.

1754
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:17,040
Open and it doesn't look like a
spaceship from The Jetsons or

1755
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:19,240
something, you know?
The cyber trucks are always, I

1756
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:21,680
mean, I can't tell if I love
them or not yet I, I don't see

1757
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:23,680
them out there.
And I and I shake my head and

1758
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,120
there's a part of me that like
wants to like it, but I still

1759
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,840
have not come around.
I'm the same as wanting to like

1760
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:31,440
it because I love Elon.
I can't stand it.

1761
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:34,320
I think it's ugly.
I think it to me, it's today's

1762
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,960
PT Cruiser.
You know, you might not be old

1763
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,160
enough, I don't know.
But when the PT Cruiser came

1764
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:43,880
out, I remember my friend Randy
was like, he put a deposit like

1765
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:48,440
3 months before they came in and
he bought it at 5 grand over

1766
01:28:48,440 --> 01:28:51,080
sticker or something because
they were the hottest thing on

1767
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:54,200
earth.
And, you know, a year later, it

1768
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:56,680
was like people laughing at it,
you know?

1769
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:57,920
I would say I don't.
I don't.

1770
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:00,160
I do remember them, but I don't
remember ever thinking they were

1771
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:02,360
cool looking.
Like I just remember kind of.

1772
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:06,680
Before it came out like a
probably early 90s, mid 90s I

1773
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:12,360
guess before it came out, it was
like so hot and everybody who

1774
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:16,000
wanted to be cool was ordering a
PT Cruiser and I was just like,

1775
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:17,680
I don't get it man.
It just.

1776
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:21,000
Doesn't.
Work for me, but yeah, anything

1777
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,520
we missed?
No, I mean, I think we kind of

1778
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:25,880
covered the whole breadth of it.
I mean, it's a, you know, the

1779
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:28,000
industry is right for
disruption.

1780
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,160
You know that you hear energy
transition that buzzword

1781
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:32,040
everywhere and it absolutely is
happening.

1782
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,920
Certain industries are more, I
think are more equipped and

1783
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:37,520
ready for that transition
sooner.

1784
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:40,960
Entertainment events, live
events is absolutely ready for

1785
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:43,440
it.
Film is ready for it and so I

1786
01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:46,000
think maybe we circle back in a
year or two and we see where the

1787
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,600
events world at is at because
I'm confident the penetration is

1788
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:51,200
going to be a lot bigger than it
is now.

1789
01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:54,200
Yeah, no, it certainly seems
like it.

1790
01:29:54,440 --> 01:29:59,960
So yeah, I mean, I how about AI?
Do you do you have any thoughts

1791
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:01,720
on AI?
Do you?

1792
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:04,600
Well, I can tell you from just.
Well, from a note, I am.

1793
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,360
I think it's fascinating what
it's doing.

1794
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:08,920
Part of it scares me a bit.
But of course, I'm a power guy,

1795
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:10,840
so I always go back to the power
side of it.

1796
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:16,520
And the amount of energy AI
takes is, is just breathtaking.

1797
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:20,120
I mean, it's, they are an insane
consumer of energy.

1798
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,520
And so, you know, the US power
grid already has some gaps in

1799
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:24,720
it.
There's not enough generation,

1800
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:27,760
there's not enough transmission.
And so as more and more of this

1801
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:30,640
stuff goes online, there is
going to be absolutely more and

1802
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:34,200
more, there's going to be a
bigger and bigger power crunch.

1803
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:37,480
And so there's going to be the
need for micro grids where folks

1804
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:40,120
are actually building their own
grids, likely with gas

1805
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:44,560
generators, with battery, with
solar, all kind of hybridized

1806
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,040
nuclear, nuclear too.
I mean, if you looked at every

1807
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:49,880
nuclear stock in the last year
has gone through the roof

1808
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:51,920
because everybody is making big
bets on it.

1809
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,200
Microsoft, didn't they buy Three
Mile Island?

1810
01:30:56,480 --> 01:30:59,280
I think they have a contract or
a commitment to to buy an amount

1811
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:00,640
so.
Yeah, yeah.

1812
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:03,920
They bought 3 Mile or they're in
the process of buying Three Mile

1813
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,720
Island and turning, turning it
back on.

1814
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:08,600
Basically to.
Generate power for.

1815
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,240
And then Bill Gates also has a
startup that he's, you know, the

1816
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:13,360
main funder of building micro
reactors.

1817
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:15,200
Yep.
And it's absolutely going to be

1818
01:31:15,200 --> 01:31:17,760
part of the part of that energy
transition because it is a

1819
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:19,840
carbon free power source.
I mean, obviously there's still

1820
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:22,560
the fuel disposal issue that
needs to kind of, I think

1821
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:23,840
probably get worked on a little
better.

1822
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:27,920
There's the fear of of meltdown,
which I think they probably have

1823
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:30,480
a pretty good grip on now.
Yeah, I know that's part of the

1824
01:31:30,480 --> 01:31:33,040
sales pitch with these micro
reactors is that they're much

1825
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:35,560
less susceptible to kind of
those mega events that could

1826
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:39,000
have kind of disastrous effects.
Yeah, I was going to ask you

1827
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:40,560
that.
Like, you know, it was one of

1828
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,800
the questions I always got with
LED, like before I invest all

1829
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:47,240
this money in LED, what's the
next technology that's coming?

1830
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:51,720
And in LED, I, I could safely
say, you know, there's tests

1831
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:53,960
being done with OLED.
It's not going to happen.

1832
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:57,640
The cost is just so high that
it's, it's prohibitive for

1833
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:02,480
making light bulbs and, and you
know, yes, for televisions and,

1834
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:05,680
and things like that perhaps.
But when you're talking about

1835
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:09,120
just light sources that need to
have maximum output at the

1836
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:12,800
lowest possible cost, OLED is
not going to be the answer.

1837
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:18,080
And you know, so there were
other technologies including

1838
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:23,320
laser phosphor and, and all
kinds of stuff.

1839
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,080
But in, in power, is there any
like is hydrogen ever going to

1840
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,800
get legs?
Is there any other technology

1841
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,640
sort of sitting in the in the
sidelines here going wait till

1842
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:36,640
you see what we've got?
Yeah.

1843
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:40,160
I mean, hydrogen will have a
spot in this energy transition.

1844
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:42,360
The challenge with hydrogen is
there's not really a good way to

1845
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:45,000
transport it.
So as far as a fuel that can be

1846
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:48,400
used to power ships or to be
transported from 1 country or

1847
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:50,040
another, it's really
challenging.

1848
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:53,200
There will be opportunities
where there are green hydrogen

1849
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:56,680
production facilities and people
that are very close by can get

1850
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:58,320
that fuel.
And I think the overall

1851
01:32:58,440 --> 01:33:01,080
economics of the entire cycle
probably will make some sense.

1852
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:03,400
I don't think it's going to be
as big as maybe some people

1853
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:05,840
promote it to be.
You know, obviously a lot of

1854
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:08,640
people are placing big bets on
nuclear and kind of its

1855
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,480
resurgence.
And I think you're going to see

1856
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:13,840
some old facilities probably get
taken back online.

1857
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:16,440
And I think the micro nuclear
reactor movement is going to

1858
01:33:16,440 --> 01:33:19,080
absolutely grow some legs.
And then it's going to be

1859
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:20,640
battery technology getting
better.

1860
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:23,200
You know, there's a battery
technology called solid-state.

1861
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:25,280
I know that's one of the futures
that people are looking at.

1862
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:29,280
There's flow batteries which
don't use a lot of rare minerals

1863
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:31,400
or even really any.
And so I think those

1864
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:33,920
technologies are going to
involve and then really you're

1865
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:37,400
going to see more and more micro
grids where people kind of

1866
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:40,600
become their own power supplier.
And I think that'll be a

1867
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:45,560
combination likely of micro
nuclear reactors, maybe gas and

1868
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:49,960
hydrogen Gen. sets, solar arrays
and some sort of battery energy

1869
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:52,320
storage.
All of those are going to play a

1870
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:55,880
part in the energy future.
Yeah, well, I look forward to

1871
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:57,720
it, you know.
It's not going to be.

1872
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:03,720
Around when it all you know
comes to fruition and, and, but

1873
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:08,040
it's it's fun to watch like I'm
I'm a big follower of of all

1874
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:10,480
things AI right now.
I like to think that I'm a

1875
01:34:10,480 --> 01:34:15,680
little more informed than most
people are and I use a lot of AI

1876
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:18,320
in my daily life and I'm
constantly looking at new

1877
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:23,200
technologies in AI.
But battery power is another one

1878
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:29,400
that to me is interesting.
You know, I don't know whether

1879
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:33,040
it's the end all, but it, it's
very interesting and and I love

1880
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:35,080
it and I love what's happening
with shows and stuff.

1881
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:37,320
And I really like Neil, and it's
been fun talking to you too.

1882
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:39,240
Absolutely.
I appreciate the time.

1883
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:41,040
Thank you for having me.
It's been a, it's been an

1884
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:43,720
enjoyable call and definitely
let's try to circle back in a

1885
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:46,160
year or two and and really see
where the events business has

1886
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:47,720
gone.
I think it's going to go through

1887
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:49,240
the real well.
I want to see what you do next

1888
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:51,440
too, so I know you can't talk
about it yet, but I know you're

1889
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:54,800
you got something coming and and
keep in touch with us.

1890
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:56,520
I will, Marcel, thanks for
having me.

1891
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:58,320
All right, Tim, thank you.
Take care, bye.