#267 - Howard Glickman

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So did you ever wonder who
designed the theater?

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Who's the idiot who put this
thing right here in the theater?

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And so in his own words, today's
guest is that idiot.

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He's the one who put that thing
in the theater.

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Howard Glickman designs theaters
and amphitheaters and performing

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arts centers and is very, very
good at it.

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He works with a great group and
educated the heck out of me

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today, so I enjoyed it very
much.

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I learned a lot about designing
theaters and what goes into it,

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and also a lot about Howard and
where he came from and and how

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he got to be who he is.
So I think you're really going

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to enjoy episode #267 today on
Geese of Gear with Howard

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Glickman.
Enjoy This old #267 is brought

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For more information.
So you know how much I love

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talking about AI, right?
And so this morning actually AI

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kind of bit me in the butt.
It's it kind of reared its ugly

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head and showed what AI gone
wrong might look like.

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And it actually was directed at
me, yours truly.

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And So what exactly happened?
Well, first of all, I will tell

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you that the first half of this
result went pretty correctly and

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and as you might expect, and was
actually quite flattering.

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And then sort of what the heck,
what the heck happened after

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that?
And so here's the back story.

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My girlfriend decides to go on
ChatGPT and figure out who is

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Marcel.
And so she, I don't know what

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her exact prompt was, but it was
something around, you know, a

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biography for my name and what
came back was interesting.

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So first I'll read you the, the
good part, which was flattering

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and, and quite nice and, and
pleasant.

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Marcel Fairburn is a
distinguished entrepreneur and

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the visionary CEO and founder of
Gear Source, a global

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marketplace dedicated to live
events gear.

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With a career spanning over
three decades, Marcel has

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established himself as an
innovative leader in the

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industry, particularly within
the realm of Lyme live music

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events.
His passion for enhancing the

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live events experience led him
to launch Gear Source blah blah

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blah.
So about 2/3 of the way down, it

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says Marcel is happily married
to Anita Mitchell.

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Interestingly, Anita is not only
his partner but also has notable

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connections as she is the widow
of Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar

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Mitchell.
Their relationship reflects a

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blend of personal and historic
significance, weaving together

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the lives of two remarkable
individuals.

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Now this gets really good,
linked by love and shared

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experiences in the realms of
both entrepreneurship and space

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exploration.
Together, they exemplify

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exemplify support and
partnership, navigating their

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respective journeys while
cherishing the legacies they

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both bring to the table.
So this is hilarious for a

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number of reasons.
First of all, I am friends with

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Anita.
Anita, she's a good friend of

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mine.
And I've been on her podcast and

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you know, we've spoken a lot.
We don't really communicate much

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on social media.
So I don't know even where AI

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got the idea that we're married.
You know, we're not close

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friends, so it's not like we
communicate on a daily basis.

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And there's just not enough
information online connecting us

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together even as friends, let
alone how it figured out that

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we're married is beyond me.
Anita is a lovely lady.

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I will say she is a friend.
She's got an incredible story.

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Again, being married to, you
know, an Apollo astronaut, Edgar

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Mitchell was quite an experience
for her, and she can tell you

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that story on her own.
It didn't end well, but yeah, so

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Anita's an incredible lady with
an incredible story.

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I will tell you right now, and
if ChatGPT is listening, Anita

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is not my wife.
We are not married.

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We have never dated.
We have never even done more

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than, you know, friendly hug to
say hello.

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So it's funny how it can go that
badly.

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And I have no idea how it did
it, how it put us together.

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As I said, there wasn't a lot of
bread crumbs left around on

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social media or anything.
So there you go.

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There's AI gone bad.
And so, yeah, so I knew that

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today's guest, Howard Glickman,
needed to be on the podcast when

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he reached out.
And so in his e-mail that he

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sent to us suggesting that he
come on the podcast, he said, I

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think it would be interesting to
your listeners to hear a

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discussion with someone who
designs the venues that they

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work in.
He said, friends who tour ask me

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what a theater consultant does.
And I tell them, you know, when

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you roll into a theater and say,
what idiot put that there,

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that's me.
I'm the idiot.

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And so with that e-mail, I knew
that he had to be on the

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podcast.
And we had a great talk.

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And he's provided us all kinds
of information.

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And I've since learned
incredible guy.

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And so I knew Howard's name, but
I can't say that I had a

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relationship prior to the
podcast.

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So I'll give you his bio.
Howard Glickman is the Associate

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Principal at Apiro Design and
has been a team leader on large

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international projects in Asia
and the Middle East all the way

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to middle schools, auditoriums,
and City Council chambers.

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Howard's passion for live music
and experience in concert

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production has been invaluable
when designing tribal gaming

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entertainment facilities as
well.

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Howard brings his past
experiences in almost all

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aspects of the theatre to bear
on each project by looking at

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each venue as a whole and
considering not only the

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audience experience, but that of
the staff, technicians and

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educators who call these venues
their home away from home.

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What a concept.
So please join me and welcome

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Howard Glickman to Geyser of
Gear.

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Well, hello there, Mr. Glickman.
How are you today?

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I am fantastic.
That's cool, That's awesome.

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Be here.
Please ignore the flickering or

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weird little buzzes that you may
hear in in my system because

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I've got people painting my
house and something isn't happy.

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Well, you know, ignoring buzzes
and flickering lights.

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That's a career for us.
That's right.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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You can try all you want to
avoid them, but they seem to

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appear.
They're like weird little

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ghosts.
So, you know, I mentioned it on

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the intro and I'll, I'll mention
it again.

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You, you had one of the most
unique and interesting sort of

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ways of bringing yourself into
the podcast and saying, hey, I'm

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raising my hand.
Maybe I should come on.

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And you, you had this line that
was that people roll into a

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theater and say what idiot put
that there?

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And you said, that's me.
I'm the idiot.

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Yeah, I'm that idiot.
And like you said, there's

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usually a reason for it.
It's just they don't understand

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or immediately see that reason
because they're not doing what

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you're doing.
You know, you're you're you're

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there for a reason.
So.

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And I'm usually I'm usually
still unhappy about it and I

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remember it.
Yeah, that's funny.

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It's.
The place where we had the.

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Yeah, you can't just go enjoy a
theatre, can you?

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Not really.
I mean, it's like most of us at,

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at, at.
Sometimes I can when I'm in a

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really nice one.
Yeah.

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And it's, you know, it's, it's
really fabulous.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, I would say the

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moment I started in this
business was sort of the last

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time I thoroughly enjoyed a
concert, you know, because I go

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to live events now and I'm I'm
looking up half the time.

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What are the lights look like?
You know, what's the back look

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like?
You know, I like, I mean, I'm

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just, I'm not watching the band
or listening to the music like I

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used to, you know the.
Concerts I I still enjoy

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concerts.
Yeah.

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But going to the theater and
sitting in that seat, Yeah.

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The whole time, Yeah.
Makes me crazy.

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Does it?
It does, you know.

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Well, OK.
But what's it look like from the

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balcony?
And I want to go stand in the

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wings for a little bit.
And.

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Yeah, yeah.
I'll.

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I I used to.
I used to like to.

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I could watch a show five times
in rehearsal, but don't make me

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sit there when the room is full.
Oh really?

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That's interesting.
Are you a big fan of of live

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theatre?
For that reason, you know, I

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like to know what's going on
and, and trying to keep current.

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And I try and go and support
like our local Community

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College.
Yeah, I like to go and, and

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support them and go see what
they're putting on.

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Yeah, you know, but it's just
one of those things that I just

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don't get to very often.
Yeah.

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So.
Well, I'm weird in that I'm

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weird for a lot of reasons, but
I've been in the moving light

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business a long, long time and
I've sold probably 1000 moving

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lights to theater projects or
more.

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But I don't like live theater.
Like I, I, I can't sit through a

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show, like a Broadway show even,
you know, it's and I know that

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that may make me shallow or
stupid or whatever the people

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want to call me because of that,
but it's just not me for some

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reason.
Like I don't like musicals

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especially.
Years ago, my, my, my parents

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would, you know, they were
theatre goers and they would

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always ask me, do you want to
come see this with us?

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Not really, you know, not not on
Tuesday night.

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Yeah.
And eventually my stepmother,

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she said to me, how come you
never want to come to the you're

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in the theatre?
How come you never want to come

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see it with us?
And I you're a computer

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programmer, how come there's no
computer in your house?

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True, yeah, she said.
Well, you know, when I get home,

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I really don't like to.
Oh.

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00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No.

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Well, I mean, it's like my
ex-wife used to say to me all

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the time, you know, you're in
the lighting business.

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Why is our lighting so terrible
in our house?

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00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,520
And and I was like, you know,
what did they say?

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00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,040
The Cobbler.
Cobbblers kids have no shoes.

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Yeah, right.
Yeah, so it's, it's totally

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true.
Just because you're in the

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business doesn't mean you're
gonna have, you know, you're

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gonna have that passion or
whatever for your own stuff.

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No, my questions Why haven't you
changed out that light fixture

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that's been here since we bought
the house?

228
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,360
I said.
Because I haven't found the

229
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,840
right yet.
That's hilarious.

230
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,760
I'm similar, but you know the.
Other thing, right, You know,

231
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,880
Yeah, I know the right fixtures
out there.

232
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,720
I grew up at, I wouldn't call
myself a passionate musician,

233
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,880
but I grew up a musician.
I, I got my first guitar at, I

234
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,160
don't know, eight or nine years
old.

235
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,120
And I was in a band when I was
about 12, like actually playing

236
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:59,320
real gigs and stuff.
And you know, I always had lots

237
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,280
of guitars and I was really
inspired by the instruments and

238
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:08,080
stuff And, and I went to work
for a music store when I was 19,

239
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,120
I think, and just started
selling off all my guitars.

240
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,480
And, and it wasn't until I was
probably in my 40s that I

241
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,000
started buying a few again.
But I never play them.

242
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,520
Like, I've got a guitar sitting
literally 2 feet away from me

243
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,200
right now and I probably haven't
played it in two years.

244
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,640
And in my house in Florida, I
have several guitars and I never

245
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,240
play them.
Like I So it's weird.

246
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,960
It's almost like the business
took away the passion from me to

247
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,720
play music.
And maybe because I just saw

248
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,960
lots of good musicians and
realized I wasn't very good,

249
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,320
perhaps.
I don't know.

250
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,080
But yeah, so you know, we're
going to get into what you're

251
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,320
doing now because that's true.
Obviously incredibly

252
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,720
interesting.
And and you're very unique to

253
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,400
this podcast in that I've never
had a theatre designer on the

254
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,800
podcast.
So I'm pretty excited.

255
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,280
I've had theatre lighting
designers on the podcast, but

256
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,760
not actual theatre venue
designers.

257
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,640
Right, you do the building.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

258
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,480
And when you talk about theatre
as the venue, am I correct In

259
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,960
Someone told me this once that
when you're talking about

260
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,160
theatre the venue, it's spelled
RE.

261
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,760
You know there, that is one
interpretation, yeah, you know

262
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:30,000
that that a theatre is an RE and
that theatre with an ER is like

263
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,480
is the art company or the
artist?

264
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,720
Yeah, it's kind.
Of like where does green room

265
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,400
come from?
You know you can.

266
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,520
Spin it any way you want,
really, whether it's a, a

267
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:49,440
British thing versus an American
thing, Yeah, or that I, I, you

268
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,800
know, I've often explained to
clients sometimes, you know, we

269
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,520
get asked when they're doing the
sign, like do we want it to be

270
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,600
ER or RE?
And I've, you know, and, and

271
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,000
what's the difference?
And I've, I've used that the

272
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,880
building itself is RE.
But I said, you know, like, do

273
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,440
whatever you like.
Yeah, it feels comfortable for

274
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:11,800
you.
I don't think your patrons.

275
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,120
Are going to complain.
It's more of a what's the image

276
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,160
you want to project?
Yeah, well, or does it really

277
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,320
even make much of a difference
other than to make people like

278
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,680
us talk about it?
But I've just, it's something

279
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,120
that's all I've always wondered.
And I've never asked anyone.

280
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,440
So I thought I'd ask you just
now.

281
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,720
It popped in my head.
Boom.

282
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,400
Yeah.
So yeah, we're going to get into

283
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,040
all of that stuff.
And, and, but first, I, you

284
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,600
know, if anyone's ever heard the
podcast, you know, I like to

285
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,760
figure out how people got here.
You know, what bad decisions did

286
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,400
you make in life that landed you
in our industry?

287
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,360
And I'm just joking, of course,
because I love this.

288
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,880
It another way, I once said a
mentor who is in charge of

289
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,480
hiring for a university and he
would say that when he looked at

290
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,240
a resume he always looked for
the left turn.

291
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,040
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a
great point.

292
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,880
That's a Yeah, actually, it's an
interesting thing to remember.

293
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:06,920
How do you use that one?
What?

294
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:07,720
What?
Happened.

295
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,240
Yeah, What happened?
What went wrong?

296
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,319
Actually, yeah, it's funny.
I I had no interest in theater

297
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:18,800
sort of growing up other than
once doing some some painting on

298
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,119
a set because I had a crush on
the stage manager at the time in

299
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,440
high school.
But I went to college intending

300
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,400
to study history and political
science and be a high school

301
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,080
history teacher.
That.

302
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,080
That was my ambition.
And then in my freshman year at

303
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,400
my little liberal arts College
in Ohio, we had the January term

304
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,040
thing where, you know, you can
go off and do a project, you

305
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,720
know, for a month or not, you
know, a year or two.

306
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,080
And for some reason, I decided I
was going to stay on campus and

307
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,160
do something.
And after about two weeks on a,

308
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,520
on a, you know, empty campus in
northeastern Ohio in the winter

309
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,160
in January was just damp and
rainy and no one was around.

310
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,120
I said the heck with this, I'm
out.

311
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,520
Yeah.
And I left and and I went home

312
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,520
and I realized I can't just sit
around home for two weeks.

313
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,840
So my best friend was up in the
technical theater program at

314
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,120
SUNY Purchase.
OK.

315
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,760
So I went up there and, and I
hung out with, with him and, and

316
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,480
his suite mates and just had a
blast for about two weeks, you

317
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,000
know, great parties and really
cool guys.

318
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,440
And I, I went back to school
saying those are really cool

319
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:44,920
people.
That was a lot of fun.

320
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:46,880
I.
Wonder what the heck they were

321
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,560
talking about all the time.
Yeah, yeah.

322
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:55,160
And so I needed an elective, so
I signed up for Intro to Stage

323
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,680
Lighting just just because I
wanted to know what these guys

324
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,680
were talking about.
So next time I hung out with

325
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,160
them, I, you know, I had
something to say.

326
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,960
Yeah.
And I I bought the book, you

327
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,200
know, the pink one.
Yeah.

328
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,480
And I said, well, I don't know
anything at all about this, so

329
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,320
let me read a few chapters
ahead.

330
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,680
And the next morning, when I'd
finished the book, I said, OK,

331
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,440
this is the coolest thing I've
ever seen.

332
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,160
Wow.
And I wanna do this.

333
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,280
And so I took the class and just
completely dived into it.

334
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:39,440
Wow, that's cool.
And so coming out of school, how

335
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,520
did that translate into income
or did it?

336
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,320
Right, That's right.
That's how you do it.

337
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,040
Not very well, yeah.
Yeah, No, but part of the reason

338
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:55,400
for that is because the minute I
got into it, I also knew that I.

339
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,400
Once I discovered there was
lighting, yeah, I always had

340
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,200
been aware of it ever since my
first concert, but I

341
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,840
immediately.
In addition to doing theater,

342
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,000
which was what we were learning,
I went to every organization on

343
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,960
campus to put on concerts and
said I want to do your lights.

344
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,760
Yeah.
And no one had really like been

345
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,040
that into that before.
So everyone was, you know,

346
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,360
really, you know, excited.
You want to run the lights in

347
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,960
our little disco.
You know, when we have live

348
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,400
bands, sure, you can do that.
And you know, you want to run

349
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,240
the lights for the concerts that
that we bring in.

350
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,040
Sure you can do that.
So you know, I did that and and

351
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,600
with light, you know, friends
bands that were playing, you

352
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,760
know, in the dorm lounges with
you know, 6 park hands and two

353
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,920
auto Transformers.
Yeah, getting paid hot pizza or

354
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,240
something.
Four of those six lights at a

355
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,360
time.
Yeah, hot catching 2 fers.

356
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,280
Right.
Yeah.

357
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,440
You know, so I, I, I, they were,
you know, I was getting the

358
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,640
theatre, the technical theatre
education.

359
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,000
But at the time I really knew
what I wanted to do with it was,

360
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:05,280
was rock'n'roll lighting.
Wow.

361
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,440
And so when I got out of
college, the first job I got was

362
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,920
at C factor.
Oh wow, did you just live close

363
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,880
or how did?
I didn't live that close, but,

364
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,520
you know, I talked to a few
people and said, you know, I

365
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,400
want to, I want to do concert
lighting.

366
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,480
And you know, someone, I don't
even remember who said, well,

367
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,040
you know, go over to C factor in
Queens.

368
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,400
Yeah.
And so I did, and I walked in

369
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:36,240
and I met Terry Thompson who
said basic, you know, the C

370
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,640
factor interview, you know, we
pay $7.00 an hour with no

371
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,440
benefits.
OK, We need work 40 hours a

372
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,640
week, but usually longer than
that until the job is done.

373
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,600
Yeah.
OK.

374
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,960
All right, cool.
Go in the back and, you know,

375
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,520
ask for Dan and he'll show you
around, right?

376
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,280
You know?
OK, cool.

377
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,160
Next thing you know, you're in a
black T-shirt with an orange

378
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,680
logo and.
There.

379
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,480
You go pushing orange cases
around the warehouse, Yeah.

380
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,320
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

381
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,640
And and it was.
I mean, it was rough, Yeah.

382
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,360
I mean, like my my first day.
I should not have they should

383
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,000
not have let me stay after my
first day.

384
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,640
Really.
I did not know anything.

385
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,600
I, you know, I, I dropped an MSL
rolling it down the ramp, you

386
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,760
know, the big giant, you know,
narrow speakers at the bottom of

387
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,120
that truck ramp and.
Just boom boom.

388
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:38,600
Right over on it.
And then of course, I rolled it

389
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,120
into the shop and just kind of
put it back with all the others.

390
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,200
Yeah, saying this is the one
that I dropped coming off.

391
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,280
Nobody heard the big crash.
Oops.

392
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:50,520
You know, And then you know,
someone told me to go test out a

393
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,560
bar of ray lights, and I'd never
seen a bar of ray lights before,

394
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,280
so I just grabbed the cable to
plug into the hot socket.

395
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:05,520
And fortunately I grabbed a bad
cable out of the bin of cable

396
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,760
from someone who had miswired a
whole batch of cable.

397
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,040
Oh no.
So I didn't blow up each of

398
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,920
these ray lights by putting 120
volts right into them, but I

399
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,040
would have, yeah, grabbed the
wrong.

400
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:20,720
Piece.
Oh my.

401
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,360
Good.
So, you know, there, there was a

402
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,360
lot to learn there, Yeah.
Well, you know what, though?

403
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,040
Everybody's green their first
day.

404
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,960
I mean, everyone is like it.
It's just how it starts, you

405
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,120
know?
And everyone's got funny stories

406
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:34,160
about that period.
Oh yeah.

407
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,200
My first day, you know, the
first day they, they brought me

408
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,400
to Radio City and someone handed
me a fan, you know, for the

409
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,360
foggers and said go get this
plugged in.

410
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,880
So I walked away and turned to
one of the house guys and said,

411
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,080
hey, where do I plug this in?
And he just looked at me and

412
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,880
said, you don't plug that in
anywhere.

413
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,160
Oh.
Yeah.

414
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,760
And and I said, oh, OK.
He said, you know, he said, are

415
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,440
you the newest guy on this crew?
And I said yes.

416
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,640
And he said OK, yeah, he was.
He was actually really kind

417
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,640
because he could have just
completely, you know, aren't.

418
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,760
Most people though, like aren't
most people in that situation?

419
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,840
Because everyone has new people
coming into a crew at any given

420
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,600
moment, Right?
But.

421
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,600
Meanwhile, word got around that,
you know, I'd actually asked

422
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,080
asked somebody where I could
plug in the fan and I got teased

423
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,200
pretty good of us.
That's that's really funny.

424
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:29,360
That's great.
So how long before you met the

425
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:32,960
big man Bob C?
You know, I mean, it would have

426
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,880
had to have been pretty quick.
Yeah.

427
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,920
You know he would have come down
from the third floor and you

428
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:40,640
know.
Who's?

429
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,880
Grumbled with everybody.
Who are you?

430
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,760
Why are you in my show?
That's right.

431
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,200
What are you doing here?
What are you doing in my?

432
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,680
Shop Are you the guy that
dropped that speaker off the

433
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,360
dock?
Thank God it wasn't that.

434
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,920
Yeah, but yeah, no, it was, it
was a great experience.

435
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,320
You know, especially being a
first job out of college,

436
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,320
wanting to get into Rock'n'roll.
I I needed it because it it it,

437
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,000
it kicked the college out of me.
That's a great.

438
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,120
That's what it did.
That's a great way of saying it.

439
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,200
You didn't go home the first day
crying yourself to sleep or

440
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,720
anything.
I didn't go crying myself to

441
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,960
sleep, no, but I knew I was.
I was in for an education.

442
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,360
Yeah, you were in deep.
I was.

443
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,200
I was definitely in.
Did you ever think about turning

444
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:32,920
back?
No, not really, no, but you know

445
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,760
what it did I mean, but what I
did learn from it, in addition

446
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,400
to all the stuff that I learned,
which is great and, and people

447
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,760
that you know, I I still know to
this day was at the time at

448
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,160
least was that even if I really
wanted to do it, it was not the

449
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:56,880
path for me because just sort of
the the way I brought up in the

450
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,600
circumstances of my life just
led me to feel like I needed a

451
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,960
job.
Yeah.

452
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:08,240
I needed a weekly paycheck and
some health insurance and, and I

453
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,280
the idea of having to look for a
new job every six months.

454
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,120
Yeah.
When the tour ended or, you

455
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,840
know, I I just, I didn't have
that in me.

456
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,080
Yeah.
I didn't have the schmoozing

457
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,000
skills at the time, so I knew
that even though that was

458
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,520
something I really wanted, it
wasn't right for me.

459
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,040
It's funny because.
Like, you know, that's, that's a

460
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,920
good thing to learn.
Yeah.

461
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,200
Is when something is not right.
To.

462
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,280
Well, also you, you bring up a
good point because you know, in

463
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:47,120
the touring world or, or as a
freelancer, basically you're

464
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:51,480
selling yourself multiple times
a year, sometimes saying here's

465
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,280
why I'm the one that you should
pick to do this job.

466
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,000
So you know, everything has a
beginning and an end and you got

467
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,280
to go out and resell after that
end again.

468
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,000
And versus having a job where
you apply once you do a good job

469
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,520
and you could be there for years
and years.

470
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,760
So, and that's, you know, and
that's a really, you know, that

471
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,240
is an important skill and it's a
skill that that I did not have

472
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,680
coming out of college.
Yeah, yeah.

473
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,080
You know it's funny, college.
Teaches you a lot of things, but

474
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,600
how to get a job doesn't really
doesn't really do that.

475
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:27,920
You know, of course it didn't
take me long to get to racing,

476
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:33,240
but we talked a little bit prior
to to starting to record and,

477
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,440
and you were a NASCAR fan and,
and loved going to NASCAR races.

478
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,440
And so at a race one time when
my son was in in go karts, he

479
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,600
was probably I think he was
eight years old.

480
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,640
And we were racing at the
Daytona Motor Speedway at the

481
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,280
one of the Mecca's right.
And in the infield there's a go

482
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,040
Kart track and there's a big
race there every December, which

483
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,960
is called Kart week.
And it's a a number of races

484
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,400
that happened.
And so at that race, AJ

485
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,880
Allmendinger was there and did a
little Q&A with with the

486
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,800
drivers.
And so, you know, my son thought

487
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,160
that was pretty cool.
He didn't really know who AJ

488
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,120
Allmendinger was, but he knew he
was a famous driver at the time.

489
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,640
This was before he crashed and
burned.

490
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:22,680
And, and so kids were asking him
questions, most mostly really

491
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,920
silly and stuff.
But one kid who was probably 16

492
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,240
or 17 was just about to get out
of carts and into cars perhaps.

493
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,840
And he was going off to college
and he said, you know, going to

494
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,440
college, what are classes that I
should take that will help me

495
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,440
with my racing career, you know,
and he expected, you know,

496
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:49,240
physics or, or, you know,
something mathematical or

497
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,240
scientific or engineering based,
things like that.

498
00:28:53,760 --> 00:29:00,840
And AJ said PR and marketing.
Business.

499
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,520
And he said PR and marketing,
what are you talking about?

500
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,440
I want to be a race car driver.
And he said you are constantly

501
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,520
selling yourself as a race car
driver.

502
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,520
You're looking for funding,
you're looking for a new team.

503
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,640
You're trying to do this.
You're trying like everything

504
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,120
you do is going to be about
trying to get that next deal

505
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,800
done so that you can continue
racing and, and making a living

506
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,720
doing it, or at least not paying
as much doing it.

507
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,760
So you're talking to sponsors,
you're talking to supporters of

508
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,640
some sort.
Sometimes you're talking to fans

509
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,960
and marketing yourself.
It's about selling T-shirts and

510
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,640
getting people.
But that's not what they teach

511
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,120
you when you're starting out in
racing, is it?

512
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,040
You know, they don't.
They tell you you need to, you

513
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,080
know, work on your core
physically and you need to work

514
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,880
on your brain for all of these
reasons.

515
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,080
But they don't tell you you need
to learn how to market yourself.

516
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,040
And so you learned that lesson
as well very quickly going into

517
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,880
C Factor.
You learned some things that

518
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,320
they didn't teach you in books.
Yeah, right.

519
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:02,560
Absolutely.
Yeah.

520
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,200
And just just, you know,
thinking about, you know, and

521
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,760
lessons that that I still apply
these days that, that that make

522
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,920
me a kind of, I think effective
at what I do, You know, things

523
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,440
like, you know, I said, I said
beating the college out of me,

524
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,400
right?
You know, things like Hey, we

525
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,480
need to lift this heavy thing up
onto the mezzanine and I would

526
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,040
you know, well I saw a block and
fall over in a corner there.

527
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,800
If we rigged that up to that
beam, we can use the mechanical

528
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,760
advantage.
Meanwhile someone else is saying

529
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,520
I need 4 guys over here. 1234
lift.

530
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,560
Yeah.
Oh, you know that.

531
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:39,920
That's a good way to do it, too.
Yeah.

532
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,840
Yeah, Yeah.
You know, that's hilarious.

533
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,640
You know, I could spend 45
minutes making the job easier,

534
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,720
or we could just get a bunch of
guys and get it done.

535
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,320
Yeah, Very true.
You know, there's a time and a

536
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,040
place for both.
Yeah, You know, and, and when

537
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,400
we're designing theatres to sort
of bring this back around,

538
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,800
right, when we're designing
theatres these days, a lot of

539
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,320
the, I mean, maybe not tension,
but a lot of the discussions

540
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,120
center around automating things.
And you know, there's a real

541
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,560
desire to automate things
because you know, one thing it

542
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,840
does is it shows how, you know,
forward thinking you are and

543
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,840
what a good designer and how
clever you are.

544
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,480
But I always stop and say, are
we automating it because we can

545
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,080
or are we automating it because
we should such a good because

546
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,160
you know, yeah, we can.
We can make the floor tip up and

547
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,280
the seats roll underneath and
then you get a flat floor and it

548
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,840
and it costs half $1,000,000 and
it's really cool.

549
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,160
Or do we have 4 guys who stack
these chairs and put them in the

550
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,200
closet?
Yeah.

551
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,960
And there's a time and a place
for both, but knowing the

552
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,600
difference, I think is, you
know, is really important.

553
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,880
So I'll give you another spin on
that.

554
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,280
Like in my own business, you
know, I'm constantly talking

555
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,760
about AI on this podcast and I,
I use AI in some aspects of our

556
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120
business, but one of the things
I learned very early on is don't

557
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,680
let AI get in the way of, of
your relationship with people.

558
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,800
You know, the relationship in
our industry is the foundation

559
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,680
of, of, of business like those
relationships.

560
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,040
And so, you know, if you think a
little outside the box,

561
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,400
automating things at at a place
like McDonald's where they've

562
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,560
taken the cashier out of the
picture and you're ordering on a

563
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,440
screen, I guess I haven't been
in a McDonald's in a long time,

564
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,960
but I've read articles about how
they're doing it now and.

565
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:35,880
It's really.
Weird.

566
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:42,080
So as much as that's extremely
efficient, how is that promoting

567
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,240
McDonald's?
Like, how about having really

568
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,640
great staff who are talking with
you?

569
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,400
And I mean, they forgot about
doing that kind of stuff a long

570
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,440
time ago.
They're just grumpy staff who

571
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,000
who are working for less money
than they want to be and all of

572
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,520
that kind of stuff.
But how about having staff who

573
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,400
can, who can communicate with
you that this is a better choice

574
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,680
or that's a better choice or
whatever in McDonald's, they're

575
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,600
probably all bad choices, but
you know what I'm saying?

576
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:12,400
Like that, that last sort of
touch with the customer, I think

577
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,480
should never be automated.
Like I just don't.

578
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,640
Think, you know, that's, it's
interesting because one of the

579
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:22,840
things to, to is that I think
back to remember, Once Upon a

580
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,640
time we had automats and that
was, you know, that that was a

581
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,640
big deal in its day.
Yeah, we came around, maybe

582
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,760
there was still a couple around
and it was a novelty.

583
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,480
But there was a time when that
was, you know, the way to go,

584
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,800
that that was the height of, you
know, modernism.

585
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,920
And, and so for those for those
who don't know and automat back

586
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:55,080
in the the 30s and the 40s,
there would be a, a, a wall of

587
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,640
little boxes kind of looked like
your mail room in college maybe.

588
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160
And you would put coins in and
open it up and pull out a piece

589
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,840
of pie or, or a sandwich or an
apple, maybe a precursor to the

590
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,880
vending machine, I guess in a
way, but you know, exactly

591
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,159
refilling it with all different
hot foods.

592
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,400
And it was kind of a buffet that
you would drop a a coin into

593
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,120
each thing that you wanted and
pull it out.

594
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,239
And so you never had an
interaction with a person there

595
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,360
either?
Yeah, yeah.

596
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,080
Well, I mean, maybe.
That's why the automats went

597
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,280
away.
Yeah, You know that lack of

598
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,520
interaction and.
Yeah.

599
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,239
But you know, like I remember
seeing, this is totally

600
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,239
unrelated, but sort of related.
I remember seeing Bon Jovi on

601
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:42,000
Howard Stern one time, and they
were talking about modern times

602
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,719
versus the old days.
And one of the things that Jon

603
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:54,199
Bon Jovi said was my kids will
never have that kinetic feeling

604
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,840
of picking up an album.
And you know, looking at all

605
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,720
parts of the album and all the
images and the song titles and

606
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,120
all of this stuff and not
knowing what any of those songs

607
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,000
sound like except the one hit
that's on the radio or whatever.

608
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,720
And like, for me, it was exactly
the same.

609
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:14,440
There was a in Canada, there was
a chain of record stores, at

610
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,800
least in Calgary, called Kelly's
Records.

611
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,720
And I remember going to Kelly's
Records on a Saturday and

612
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:23,120
spending the whole day there, or
half a day there, just thumbing

613
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,840
through albums and going.
Whoa.

614
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,040
This one's cool.
You know, I got to get this one

615
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,200
and I'd spend my allowance and
buy one or two records that day.

616
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:35,800
And so, yeah, when you talk
about what to automate and

617
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,400
automation just for the purpose
of automation or automation,

618
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,640
because that makes sense.
And I believe in my own business

619
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,920
anyways, that you should
automate the things that that do

620
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:54,000
not lead to relationships and do
not expand your service to the

621
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,360
customer or whatever.
Like automate the the really

622
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,440
boring work and focus your staff
on the important work.

623
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:09,760
And so, yeah, anyways, so from C
factor you went to I believe PR,

624
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:15,640
no, not PRG you.
I I did a stop at a Community

625
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,920
College in Brooklyn,
Kingsborough Community College,

626
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,240
which is a beautiful location
out by Coney Island.

627
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,760
We had our own beach, nice and a
Marina.

628
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,640
And so, yeah.
People still learn stuff.

629
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,080
Yeah, they do.
And we had some, we had some

630
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:38,840
really cool facilities and
because of the location, we, we

631
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,920
had a lot of variety in what we
did there because we were within

632
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,800
New York City, but we were way,
way out at, you know, on the

633
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,240
shore.
So and we had this big theater

634
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:54,440
that didn't get a lot of use.
So we got a lot of, you know,

635
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,880
you know, theater tours that
were going to go out on tour and

636
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,920
they would rehearse in our space
because they didn't have to pay

637
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,000
per diem because they were in
New York City.

638
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,000
But there was nowhere for anyone
to go or wander off.

639
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,000
I see.
You know, or you know things for

640
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,080
the mayor's office or the Police
Department because we were kind

641
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,680
of isolated.
I see.

642
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,480
Yeah.
But had these great facilities,

643
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,280
you know, when they would debut
a new police car, you know, we'd

644
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,720
roll it onto our stage and, and
they would have, you know, brass

645
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:28,000
from all over the place.
Cool, Do it.

646
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,920
So what did you?
What did you do?

647
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,720
There you were.
So, you know, I started out

648
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:39,360
running their television studio
and kind of turning that from,

649
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,240
from, from what it had been into
a more modern facility, keeping

650
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,480
in mind this was in the, the
mid, early to mid 90s.

651
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,600
Yeah.
But you know, actually being now

652
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,080
the person responsible for this
room and, and building some sets

653
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,320
and maintaining the equipment
and, and setting it up like a

654
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,640
real studio.
Yeah.

655
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,680
So I did that for a while and
then I sort of transitioned into

656
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,800
a position.
They they, they sort of cut the

657
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,280
theater programs a lot, but we
still have these facilities and

658
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,080
all these other programs that
use them.

659
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,560
So we created a department that
we called the Event Services and

660
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,480
Planning Department, which I
came up with because I said we

661
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,760
needed ESP to know what people
actually wanted at their

662
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,680
meetings and events.
Interesting.

663
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,600
But there was a lot of event
planning in it for conference.

664
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,120
We had a Conference Center and
things like that, but also

665
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,720
running the theaters.
And we still had a children's

666
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:41,840
theatre festival that would come
in once a month and college

667
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,520
events and, and the rental
events.

668
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,600
But, you know, also I got to
work with the facilities

669
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,440
departments and, you know, even
like the I once had to run the

670
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,800
shipping and receiving for a
month because the guy who was

671
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,120
there had a heart attack and
they just needed someone who

672
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,560
they trusted to, to go in and
keep that operation running.

673
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,600
Yeah, yeah.
We worked with the campus

674
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,040
architects on, you know,
renovations or upgrades to the

675
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,240
spaces and you know, how to
argue for a renovation or an

676
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:18,800
upgrade, you know, using money
designed for computer upgrades

677
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,520
to get new light boards because
those are computers now too.

678
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,640
So a lot, you know, a lot of
things like that.

679
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:31,120
And we also worked, we had a, a
high school on campus charter.

680
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:33,160
They would call it a charter
school these days.

681
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,840
And we would get asked to do
their theater productions in our

682
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,640
smaller theater and wait.
The first time I was told we

683
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,400
were going to work on the high
school theater production, I was

684
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,280
unhappy.
I was like, are you kidding?

685
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,480
You know, I used to work in
Radio City.

686
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,160
I, you want me to work with
these high school kids?

687
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,560
This I was a grumbly
stagehanded.

688
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,480
Yeah.
And then by the time we got

689
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,000
done.
I was sitting there going, you

690
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,200
know, there's nothing in here.
Next weekend we could do this

691
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,160
like for another weekend.
It was so much fun.

692
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,960
I could see that I had.
Such a blast working with these

693
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,440
kids and teaching them
stagecraft and, and doing these

694
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:23,120
little musicals and it became
the highlight of our year.

695
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,600
That's so cool.
Eventually we started doing 2A

696
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,720
year Yeah.
Because we, the college staff,

697
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:32,320
enjoyed doing them so much and
enjoyed working with their

698
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,840
director and, and with the kids
and watching as these kids

699
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,120
evolved and, you know, turning a
bunch of them into a stage crew.

700
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,240
And, you know, when they, when
they were between classes or had

701
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:46,400
nothing to do, they would come
and hang out in my office.

702
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,880
And, you know, I would, I would
teach them like, you know,

703
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,720
sometimes just basic things.
Like one of the kids that was

704
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,560
really sharp and kind of a
leader came up to me one day and

705
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,680
she said, you know, when we're
doing the show, you never sit

706
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,120
down.
And I said, no, I, I just, you

707
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,280
know, I kind of want to be ready
in case something happens or,

708
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,480
you know, we've, you know, I
don't want to relax.

709
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,360
I want to be paying attention to
what's going on so I can react.

710
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Yeah.
And the next night I looked

711
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,640
around and all the kids were
standing.

712
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:15,760
Up.
Oh, that's awesome.

713
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,680
I love that.
I love that.

714
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,240
I wish kids these days were that
easy to teach.

715
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,560
You know, just, you know, it was
really teach them, you know,

716
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:29,000
treat them.
Like adults or not, like, like

717
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,800
humans, Yeah.
When I, when I was teaching them

718
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,360
how to frame a flat, one of
these kids was kind of trying to

719
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,080
be a smart ass and said, you
know, why do you do it that way?

720
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
And I said, well, honestly, and
you'll find this a lot in

721
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,000
theater because that's how the
guy that taught me how to do it

722
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,000
did it.
Yeah.

723
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,240
If you've got another way, if
you see something, let's try it.

724
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,000
Yeah.
That kid just, you know, was

725
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:55,920
like, what?
What?

726
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,040
Yeah.
He never had someone like, take

727
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,400
him seriously before and say, I
get that you're trying to be a

728
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,880
smart ass, but you also wanna
know something, so let's do

729
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,920
something, yeah.
That's really cool.

730
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,440
To you.
We'll try it, Yeah.

731
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,680
And just treat them with respect
and they'll listen.

732
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,920
Well, the thing about talking to
young kids and to students and

733
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,800
stuff is, is that as much as
you're teaching them, they're

734
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,040
teaching you to like they're
teaching you about humanity and

735
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,200
about all the other sort of
fluffier things where as you're

736
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,040
teaching them physically how to
do some things right.

737
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,520
And that's always so
interesting.

738
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,720
You know, especially like
nowadays when you get into

739
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:44,040
things like social media and
iPhone functionality and stuff,

740
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,400
ask a kid, you know, ask a kid
what's important to them, you

741
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,440
know, what features are
important to them and stuff like

742
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,000
that.
And they're like, you know,

743
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,080
they'll tell you.
And a lot of times when

744
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,680
something's broken on my
websites, for example, you know,

745
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,280
I'll ask my son take a look and
see what you think about

746
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,920
ordering a product or whatever
the process and he'll just be

747
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,360
like, this is stupid, like you
don't need this button over here

748
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,360
or whatever, right?
So.

749
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,480
Yeah, no.
And so, you know, they, they

750
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,320
were, they were a lot of fun.
And it got to the point where,

751
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,720
you know, I, I, I kind of
started, I hired some of them to

752
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,840
work on our, our professional
shows.

753
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,680
Oh wow.
You know, I, I kind of thought,

754
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,640
you know, you guys have evolved
over, you know, 2-3 years and

755
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,560
now, you know, let's, let's show
you how to do this.

756
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,280
Let's make some money.
Let's put you next to, you know,

757
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,960
real people.
Yeah.

758
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,480
And and go for it.
So that was that was really fun

759
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,000
I.
Can't imagine the change though

760
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:49,560
in climate between working in
the shop at C factor and then in

761
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,960
a school, you know, like what a
change you know that's.

762
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:59,880
You know, I mean, yes, for sure.
But you, you synthesize

763
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:00,840
everything, right?
Yeah.

764
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,160
I mean, what, You know, I I was
able to, Yeah.

765
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,680
The environment obviously is
different.

766
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,680
You, Yeah.
It's, you know, you've got to be

767
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,320
a little kinder, a little
gentler.

768
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:16,520
You're you're, you know, you're
actually teaching by trying to

769
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:21,000
teach, not by hard learned
experience.

770
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,280
Yeah.
You know, you're not teaching

771
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:25,920
through failure.
Yeah.

772
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,440
Like you won't do that again,
huh?

773
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:28,520
Right.
Yeah.

774
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:34,800
But at the same time, some of
those lessons of, you know,

775
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,760
there there's easy ways and hard
ways.

776
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,640
Sometimes the hard way makes
more sense.

777
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:41,600
Yeah.
Well.

778
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,520
One of the things I love about
the Rock'n'roll.

779
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,080
Business.
You know that efficiency.

780
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,840
Yeah, yeah.
And things like that.

781
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,600
One of the things I love about
Rock'n'roll and how things are

782
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,120
done on a show and stuff is it
it's so much about common sense

783
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,000
and it's less about textbook and
and you know, science.

784
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,880
It's more about common sense.
What works what?

785
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,120
Works, you know, and what?
What is, you know, quickest,

786
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:11,240
simplest, safest, whatever it
is, and I've always really liked

787
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:13,560
that about our business.
Like I've always said, you know,

788
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,440
if you want to solve COVID, give
it to the Rock'n'roll business

789
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,560
and and we'll have it fixed in
no time.

790
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,720
You.
Know that was that that ad for

791
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,280
was it?
I don't remember.

792
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,200
I think it was for the cell
phones, right?

793
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,200
What if roadies ran the world?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

794
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:28,560
It's.
True.

795
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,840
With the getting the airplane
off the ground, yeah.

796
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,480
Oh, that was brilliant.
It's true.

797
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,920
I.
Love that it's so true though.

798
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,680
It's so true.
Like I mean, but it is.

799
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:39,280
I really, I have a lot of faith
in our industry to figure things

800
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,360
out.
I say that to my wife all the

801
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,840
time, you know, I, you know, how
are we going to, you know, I

802
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,360
need this fixed, but I do
something, you know, really

803
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,640
quickly and it's stagehand.
Yeah, it's true.

804
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:51,000
It's very, very true.
How?

805
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,680
Did you notice that or how did
you see that was, you know,

806
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,400
stagehand?
Yeah, it's incredible.

807
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,560
And what a great place to learn.
I mean, whatever business you're

808
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,560
going to get into, it's almost
like the military where it

809
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,680
wouldn't hurt young kids to
spend a couple of years in the

810
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,440
rock'n'roll business and then go
on to whatever.

811
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:09,920
It is You're gonna do, right?
Yeah.

812
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,520
It's kind of like living in New
York, right?

813
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,360
You should do it for a year.
Yeah.

814
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,720
Yeah, and then you're either
gonna love it or hate it.

815
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,400
And if you hate it, get the heck
out.

816
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That makes a lot of sense.

817
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,600
So so you you left there and and
ended up at PRG.

818
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,080
So I ended up at Production
Arts.

819
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:32,800
This was PRG.
So this is before they bought.

820
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:35,240
This was before this was.
You were right.

821
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:38,000
Before you were there as it
transitioned, yeah.

822
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,160
So the friend that I'd visited
in college, he was working there

823
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,280
at the systems integration
group, and we kind of

824
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,240
reconnected because we had
rented some gear and I brought

825
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:51,480
it back and his name was on the,
you know, the contact list you

826
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,880
were loading.
Doc and I said.

827
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,000
There can't be that many people
in this business.

828
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,240
Yeah, you know, So I dialed him
up.

829
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,040
I said yeah.
Yeah, that's funny.

830
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,080
And so, you know, when I said,
you know, and I, I reached a

831
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,920
point at Kingsborough where
like, I realized, like, I either

832
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,760
had to leave right now or I was
going to be there forever

833
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,360
because it was, it was a cushy
job.

834
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,520
Yeah.
You know, it was a union job.

835
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,160
And, you know, we had these
theaters and we knew what we

836
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,920
were doing every day and.
And it was really like, if I

837
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,600
don't get out now, I'm going to
become too comfortable.

838
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:32,800
Yeah.
And I'm going to stay here.

839
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,160
Just what a great.
Reason to to leave.

840
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,720
I mean, that's well, you know,
really smart, very intuitive.

841
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,880
I worked with all the older
people there that I worked with,

842
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,920
You know, when we'd get
together, they would just say,

843
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,400
you know, if I'm still here in
five years, kill me.

844
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,640
Really.
And after I listened to that for

845
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,480
about 6 years, I said I got to
go.

846
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,800
Yeah.
Well, you're all still.

847
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,400
Here, that's not because it's a
bad job, it's because it's a

848
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,400
good job it.
Was it was a good job?

849
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,640
Yeah.
Like there was no, you know.

850
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,040
Like it was.
It.

851
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,560
And this stuff we were doing was
good and it was all enjoyable,

852
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,280
but it was like I I need to go
do more or something else,

853
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,160
otherwise this is going to be
it.

854
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,640
Yeah, yeah, I completely get
that.

855
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,800
Like I, I've made similar
decisions in my life.

856
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,840
So not exactly the same, but
similar and for the very same

857
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,200
reasons.
Yeah, you know.

858
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,680
You know, and so, you know,
systems integration was there

859
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,520
and I really didn't know what it
was.

860
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,200
I was just told you'd be good at
this.

861
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,600
You you have the skills.
You.

862
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,720
Yeah, you can do this this.
Is cool.

863
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,000
And so it, you know, it was the
Production arts Systems

864
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,840
Integration group, it was, you
know, Steve Terry and Mike Lay

865
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,080
and.
The top of the food chain when

866
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,520
it came to.
And I mean just doing the best

867
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:49,440
work out.
There.

868
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:50,600
Unbelievable.
Yeah.

869
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,640
You know, and running into the
most fascinating problems, Yeah,

870
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,840
you know, like the the house
light system at O that caused

871
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:04,440
Strand to redesign their central
processor in like, you know, a

872
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,000
month.
Really.

873
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,080
Oh yeah, never heard that one.
Yeah, you know, but so, you

874
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,520
know, and, and I ended up being
the project manager for all of

875
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,560
our projects in Times Square
around the Millennium.

876
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:26,320
So the Times Square Studios, the
NASDAQ market site, the ESPN

877
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,280
Zone, which is no longer there.
Madame Tussauds.

878
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,760
Now I had this knack box that
basically I rolled down

879
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,520
Broadway, you know, from job to
job.

880
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,120
And, you know, they were, they
were fascinating.

881
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,040
I, I mean, boy, taught that.
I learned so much on like from

882
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,200
day one when I was told to, you
know, review some plans and I

883
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,600
grabbed the green pen and
started to mark it up.

884
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,920
Oh, no, you have to use red.
Yeah.

885
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,320
Yeah.
But, you know, that was that.

886
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,120
I mean, those are great people
and and great mentors, you know,

887
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,160
I mean, you're working with
Steve Terry, the guy that, you

888
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,000
know, I mean.
Yeah.

889
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,640
Right.
Yeah, computerized lighting

890
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,680
boards.
Well, and he's surrounded by

891
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,280
such a team at that time, like
that company was the gold

892
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,000
standard, absolutely, of, you
know, that business.

893
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,880
You know, I mean, they were just
as good as it got.

894
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,520
And you could tell just by
walking through the building.

895
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,680
You could tell by walking
through the shop like it was

896
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,280
Immaculate.
Everyone, it was wonderful.

897
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:27,960
Yeah, it was.
Great.

898
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:30,360
People, yeah, it was cool.
Great work.

899
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:36,160
Yeah, you know, I remember one
day though, boy, I messed up the

900
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,440
feed to to A to a a dimmer bank.
Yeah.

901
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,560
And I and we had to have new
lugs overnighted from Germany

902
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:47,040
over the weekend.
Ouch.

903
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,960
And, and I'm looking at it and,
and I showed it to Steve and I

904
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,600
said, Steve, you know, like, how
did I screw this up?

905
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,920
And he's looking at it and he's
like, no, no, we, we were right.

906
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:04,560
This is no, oh, I see.
If you look over it.

907
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:07,480
And I'm like, OK, you didn't see
it either.

908
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,840
And and until you were told that
there was a problem to find in

909
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,600
there, I was like, OK, I'm cool.
Yeah, yeah, I.

910
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,680
Feel way better now if you
didn't see it.

911
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,360
Well, you know, you're not like
over speaking on on Steve Terry

912
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,760
like that guy was the God of of
that.

913
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,080
I mean, that's, that's what made
me feel OK about my mistake

914
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,600
because it was so buried and so
obscure.

915
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,320
Yeah, you know, that the, that
the best guy out there didn't

916
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:34,600
see it either.
So.

917
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,120
What's Steve do now?
Like he's not still at, ETC.

918
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,080
Is.
He he is still at, ETC.

919
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:39,280
Oh, is he really?
Yeah.

920
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,120
Yeah, I didn't know that sort of
an advisory role.

921
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,960
I kind of once a year he comes
and talks to us and says what do

922
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,640
you want to see?
What you know what?

923
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,520
What do you see happening out
there?

924
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,760
Interesting.
Yeah, I didn't.

925
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:53,840
I didn't know he was still
there.

926
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:58,760
I haven't seen Steve in, I don't
know, probably 15 years or

927
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,800
something at this point.
I haven't seen him in a long

928
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,520
time.
So he doesn't really go to the

929
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:03,960
trade shows anymore, I don't
think.

930
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,640
Once in a while he may come in
for a day.

931
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,320
Yeah, yeah.
But he's definitely not walking

932
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,200
the floor or they're in the
booth for three or four days.

933
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:20,080
Yeah, yeah, I had Lori on a
couple of, I don't know, a month

934
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,760
ago or something.
And we talked off the air a

935
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,800
little bit about just my
appreciation for her husband

936
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,960
John McGraw and, and for Steve
Terry and for just what

937
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:33,080
Production Arts was.
And honestly, like this is no,

938
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,760
no slight against PRG because
you know what Jerry did and when

939
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,880
he did it and how he built that
massive company and everything

940
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,680
is incredibly impressive, but it
is.

941
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:49,600
But you know, they they, they
bought the most iconic company

942
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:56,280
in integration ever and pretty
much disappeared it well.

943
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,800
You know, you know, all right,
this is this is strictly

944
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,320
opinion.
Mine as.

945
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,600
Well not represent the views of
anybody.

946
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,200
Else, yeah, yeah.
The way I saw it was, you know,

947
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:10,240
you sort of you merged like
three people that had been at

948
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:13,320
each other's throats for 20
years.

949
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,120
What did you think was going to
happen?

950
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,520
Yeah, true.
That's a good you.

951
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,280
Know and so you know I.
Yeah.

952
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,720
Not going to sound good, but you
know Steve was always the guy

953
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:24,800
that came out on top, right?
Yeah, fashion, arts and.

954
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,680
So, you know, the other guys
came in, you know, Marty and and

955
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,280
and, you know, they were like,
well, you know, we're going to.

956
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,680
It's a low margin business.
Yeah.

957
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,040
You know, it's a low, very low
margin portion of the business.

958
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:43,520
It's a loss leader, basically.
Yeah, It's a, it's a, you know,

959
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,240
so we're gonna push it out and
combine with the bean counters

960
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:50,520
and the, you know, the venture
capital that Jeremy was.

961
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,400
Using.
Yeah, it was, I guess, you know,

962
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:59,320
10 years after I left, I read a
really in depth article with

963
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:04,920
Jerry where he he laid out what
he had been, what he did.

964
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,160
Yeah, but you know what?
His thought process was behind

965
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:08,760
it.
Yeah.

966
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,360
And what his steps and
strategies were.

967
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,760
And I I read it and I thought.
Wow.

968
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:20,560
If it had been explained to us
like that, yeah, back then, we

969
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,680
would have all bought in because
this is absolutely right.

970
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,600
Yeah.
Yeah, you were absolutely right.

971
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,840
But, you know, there was a
disconnect, I think, between the

972
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,680
idea and the people who would
have who were working on the

973
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,680
front lines of it well.
First of all, it was the first

974
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,920
time it had been done in our
industry, A roll up of that size

975
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,040
at that level, at the very top
of the industry, like he was

976
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,760
buying the top touring
companies, the top integration

977
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,000
company.
And so it was the first time it

978
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,080
had been done.
Nobody knew what to expect

979
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,640
really.
There weren't a lot of advisors

980
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,560
and outside people brought in to
say, hey, here's some of the

981
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,240
problems you could encounter
when you put these companies

982
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,680
together.
And so when they put them

983
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,840
together, I think there were
sort of some hard problems like

984
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,240
rigid problems, and then there
were some soft problems which

985
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:17,440
were more human related.
And part of that was just the

986
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,400
combining of lots of egos, lots
of really successful people

987
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,360
who'd done what they'd done a
certain way for a very long

988
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,880
time.
And we're now being told, oh,

989
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,200
now you got to do it this way,
or maybe this would be a better

990
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,040
idea or whatever.
So like I happened to be a very

991
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,880
close supplier to PRG at the
time and had some very good

992
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,560
relationships in all of those
companies and with Jerry as

993
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,880
well.
And so I would talk with Jerry,

994
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,480
I would talk with Marty, I would
talk with Nick Jackson, I would

995
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,480
talk with Steve Terry, all of
the people.

996
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:55,320
And so I'd hear all of the
either bickering or positivity

997
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,880
or negativity or whatever.
And all I can say is I don't

998
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:01,520
blame Jerry, I don't blame Steve
Terry.

999
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:02,880
I don't blame any of those
people.

1000
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,920
No, it is.
It happens every time you put a

1001
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,960
bunch of companies together. 4
Wall has had it, Solo Tech has

1002
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,400
had it.
Everyone who's bought a bunch of

1003
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,960
companies has it.
Well, you know, because from,

1004
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,680
you know, from the, you know,
down on the shop floor basis,

1005
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,080
basically, you know, all of a
sudden you've got 2 heads of

1006
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,840
cable and half the people are
loyal to one of them and half

1007
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,600
the people are loyal to the
other one.

1008
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,920
Yeah, You know which?
And we do it this way, you do it

1009
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:30,640
that way.
Yeah.

1010
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,640
We wrote we coil them left hand,
we call them right hand.

1011
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,600
Which way he's going to do it.
Half of them are going to be

1012
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:37,960
upset about it.
Yeah.

1013
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,600
Well, I'm not just upset, like
really passionate, like these

1014
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,480
people are in it's, it's.
A loyalty thing, Yeah.

1015
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,880
You know, you'd been competing,
you know, production arts and

1016
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:47,800
bash.
Yeah.

1017
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,800
Competing, you know, head to
head, It's.

1018
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,960
Yeah, You know, and it's not
like you brought over one guy.

1019
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,480
It's like suddenly you put the
Yankees and the Red Sox in the

1020
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,800
same locker room, Yeah.
And said go out and play, you

1021
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,160
know, and only half of you were
gonna play today.

1022
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,120
Yeah, yeah.
It's incredible.

1023
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:04,440
Yeah.
Well said.

1024
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,560
Yeah.
So I you know.

1025
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:11,680
So it was, it was hard and I
don't think we were really clued

1026
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,720
in on what the vision was, you
know, and I don't know if on the

1027
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:18,360
shop floor, you know, with the
cable guys it would have

1028
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,480
mattered, but certainly like in
the systems group, you know, if

1029
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,840
it had been explained to us.
Yeah.

1030
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,880
It made sense.
You know, he saw what was

1031
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:27,920
happening.
Yeah.

1032
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,120
And he said there's no way
these, you know, mom and pop

1033
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:36,200
regional places are going to be
able to afford the economies of

1034
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,840
these new.
Yeah.

1035
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,360
Fixtures and the sizes of these
new tours and the the length of

1036
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,480
these tours, you know, this
isn't just, you know, East Coast

1037
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,280
leg anymore.
And then we pick up a new rig

1038
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,600
for the Midwest leg, you know.
No, you're exactly right.

1039
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,320
And you know, that's what I tell
people all the time when they

1040
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:57,560
say.
Are these guys the.

1041
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,240
Borg, you know, buying up all
these companies or whatever, but

1042
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,280
you can't do these tours these
days as an independent small

1043
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,440
company anymore.
You know, there's, there's only

1044
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,520
two or three independent
companies who can compete at the

1045
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,920
top level with the big companies
because some of these plots have

1046
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,920
2000 freaking moving lights on
them now, you know, at 10 grand

1047
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,320
each.
I mean, the, the economy of

1048
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,680
scale is just ridiculous.
Like yesterday I had I recorded

1049
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:29,000
with with Chris Conte from PRG.
They have over 100,000 moving

1050
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,840
lights.
They do they do 240 shows per

1051
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:33,920
day.
He told me Yeah.

1052
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:35,440
And.
I mean when you were out 200

1053
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,840
and. 40 shows a day.
If the park hand broke, all

1054
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,840
right, you go out on the dock.
You fix the park here if the

1055
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,240
moving light breaks.
Yeah, whole different thing.

1056
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,080
It's.
Going back to the shop or it's

1057
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,920
just now it's a dead unit that's
sitting in the back of the

1058
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:53,480
truck.
Yeah.

1059
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,240
Yeah.
You got to, you got to be able

1060
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,000
to, you know, drop that off
here, pick up a new one and keep

1061
00:58:59,000 --> 00:58:59,720
going.
Yeah.

1062
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,160
You couldn't do that when you
were, you know, a one shot based

1063
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:04,320
on in New Jersey.
Yeah.

1064
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,400
And this guy's got a problem in
Colorado.

1065
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,560
Well, but I'll tell you what,
like, you know, what I never

1066
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:14,200
want this podcast to do is to
deter people or to depress

1067
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,080
people from doing what they're
doing today.

1068
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,880
So if you're a $5,000,000 rental
company, the only thing I would

1069
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,840
suggest is perhaps stay in your
lane a little bit.

1070
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,960
Like don't go after a national
tour.

1071
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,200
Don't.
Because next thing you know,

1072
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,440
you're convincing yourself to
buy, you know, 1000 video panels

1073
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:37,320
or you know, 250 moving lights
that are never gonna, they're

1074
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,640
never gonna equate to, to
profitability and success in

1075
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,240
your business.
You're just gonna be in debt

1076
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,480
forever.
And you know there was a time,

1077
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,160
right?
You bought the park hands, you

1078
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,360
rented them for a while, they
paid for themselves.

1079
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,400
Now you're renting them and
you're making profit.

1080
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:53,520
A moving light.
Yeah.

1081
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:58,520
Has a you know the light is
going to last longer than it's

1082
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,320
usefulness.
That's a very good point as

1083
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,240
well.
Yeah, no, you're exactly right.

1084
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,840
And.
The problem is three years, two

1085
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,640
years, everyone's going to want
the new thing.

1086
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,200
Correct.
You know, how are you?

1087
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:10,600
You hit the nail on the head
there it.

1088
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,400
Used to be that way and you
know, and that's drifted down

1089
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,960
now into even conventional
fixtures.

1090
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,680
Yeah.
Which is, you know, one of the

1091
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,200
the the worst things for us as
theatre consultants because we

1092
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,720
have such a long life cycle on
our projects.

1093
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:32,120
Yeah.
That, you know, we spec it today

1094
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,200
and it's something new now.
Three years.

1095
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,040
Four years when it's time to
ship it.

1096
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,000
Oh geez, that's adjusting, you
know, consoles.

1097
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,000
You know, right Control.
Systems.

1098
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,200
Stop making new lights.
Yeah.

1099
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,120
That's not going to happen, I
promise you that, Howard.

1100
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:49,040
There's.
Not a lot of.

1101
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,560
Things I can tell you I might
agree with you, but.

1102
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,480
I've talked with, I've talked
with a lot of manufacturers and

1103
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,360
it's interesting, you know, they
all say, you know, God, I would

1104
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,160
really love to not have to put
out a new light every nine

1105
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,360
months.
But they're doing it and they're

1106
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:03,320
doing it.
Yeah.

1107
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,760
But you go and talk to them and
it's like, yeah, I'd really like

1108
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,240
to not have to come out with,
you know, new stuff all the

1109
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:09,680
time.
But they're doing it and they're

1110
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:10,560
doing it.
Yeah.

1111
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,000
Well, it's that.
But it's also that I think like

1112
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,320
our industry has changed so much
and, and part of that is LED's,

1113
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,680
part of it is just the general
cost of fixtures has gone to a

1114
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:25,800
point where you never actually
get to fully capitalize on.

1115
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,440
Like in rental companies.
If I pay $10,000 for a moving

1116
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,400
light, basically the math
doesn't allow me to collect back

1117
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,320
that $10,000 plus a profit.
So now I have to pick a point

1118
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,800
down the road when I'm going to
resell that fixture and not get

1119
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,880
my entire cost back and then
hope that the resale of it gets

1120
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,520
me a profit on that entire
investment, gets me a return.

1121
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,040
It's so much harder now than it
used to be.

1122
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,080
I got it from the end user point
the, you know, the guys in the

1123
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,960
college theater or that
repertory theater that we're

1124
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,040
designing and we're giving them
their inventory of lights,

1125
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,120
right?
And so, you know, it used to be

1126
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,640
a source for it was a source for
and you bought it now and you

1127
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,160
bought it 10 years from now and
they were the same light, right?

1128
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:17,160
You know, we came from an era
where you you had an inventory

1129
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,960
of, you had some 360 QS, you had
some strand axial mounts, some

1130
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,440
strand burn base up mounts.
And you said, all right, well,

1131
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:28,440
for the side light, I need to
use these and for this special I

1132
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,120
need the really good light.
Yeah.

1133
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,720
And then all of a sudden you
just had an inventory.

1134
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,920
Not all of a sudden, but then we
got to a nice period where you

1135
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,360
just had an inventory of all
good fixtures.

1136
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,280
Yeah.
And if you got some money and

1137
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,360
you needed more, you bought
more, and you just put them in

1138
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:44,920
your inventory and it was no
longer.

1139
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,000
Those are the new ones.
Those are the old ones.

1140
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,240
Yeah, But now it ain't like that
anymore.

1141
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:51,080
It ain't like that anymore.
It's.

1142
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:55,040
We went back to the bad old days
of OK, well, these are the

1143
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,000
series ones and these are the
series fours.

1144
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,120
And these are.
And they don't match anymore.

1145
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,120
Yeah.
You know when we know the LED's

1146
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:09,760
fade, but we don't know how they
fade, but we do know if you buy

1147
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,640
source fours today, if you buy
series twos today or series

1148
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:18,000
threes today and you get money
five years from now to buy more

1149
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,120
fixtures.
They're not going to.

1150
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,160
Match.
If you want them to match, all

1151
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:27,200
they can do is go into the
software and reduce the power on

1152
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:31,880
your new fixtures to match your
old fixture, which you're doing

1153
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:37,120
a huge disservice to the
customers, but you're also doing

1154
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,200
a huge disservice to your
dealers.

1155
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,240
Yeah.
Well, because our specifications

1156
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:48,680
say you have to provide the
latest product at no additional

1157
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,880
cost to the owner.
Now that used to not be a

1158
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:54,080
problem.
Yeah.

1159
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,520
Right.
Unless there was a major shift

1160
01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:00,720
or something like that.
But now more and more we write a

1161
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:05,200
spec in in 2024.
Well, guess what, that light by

1162
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:10,240
2027 when they're getting
delivered 28, it's a whole new

1163
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:11,840
light.
And what's that cost?

1164
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,920
Yeah.
We had, we had a bunch of we had

1165
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,480
some dealers get really screwed
on the shift from MA2 to MA3.

1166
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,480
Oh, I can't even imagine.
Yeah, they had to be crazy.

1167
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,600
Yeah.
And I felt really bad for them.

1168
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,800
And I made all the calls I could
and I got everybody to, to do as

1169
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,840
much as they could.
But yeah, that was a bad

1170
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,320
situation for those dealers.
And it wasn't, you know, it

1171
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,120
wasn't really anybody's fault.
It's.

1172
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:38,600
Funny because.
That's the thing.

1173
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,760
How would I look at it?
I have this conversation so many

1174
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,240
times with rental companies, but
you have such a different

1175
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,360
perspective on it and I
appreciate that so much because

1176
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:50,600
like, I've never thought about
it that way.

1177
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,160
You know, like you have a
completely different reason for

1178
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,440
not wanting companies to come
out with new fixtures every nine

1179
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,640
months.
Like you said, you know, the

1180
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:03,120
problem that I see from the
manufacturing side, yes, there's

1181
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,840
all that keeping up with the
Joneses stuff, but there's also

1182
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:12,600
like the the economy within
those manufacturers is very

1183
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,560
challenging in that you can
either go wider and find more

1184
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,520
markets, more customers, more
whatever, or you can kind of go

1185
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,320
vertically and and, you know,
just sell more into the same

1186
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,400
markets.
Yeah.

1187
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,240
And the problem is we reach
saturation points on these

1188
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,040
fixtures so quickly because
there's so many options out

1189
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,000
there.
And so like, whereas you know,

1190
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,360
production arts in their rental
stock only had cyberlites.

1191
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,560
They didn't have cyberlites and
golden scans and robo scans and

1192
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,400
this scan and that scan, they
only had cyberlites, right?

1193
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,400
Yeah.
And so, so they could have a

1194
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,480
whole bunch of cyberlites and it
didn't matter.

1195
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:53,360
But when you have to have 24 of
each manufacturer, it becomes

1196
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:57,720
much more of a problem.
And so you, you hit a saturation

1197
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,720
point very quickly.
And so those manufacturers, the

1198
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:05,000
only way for them to hit,
because what we know is a lot of

1199
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:10,040
companies have lots of private
equity or public companies or

1200
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,640
whatever, and they live on
growth.

1201
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,120
You know, you have to have your
investors, your, your

1202
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:20,280
shareholders expect, you know,
7%, nine percent year over year

1203
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:22,920
growth.
And if you're not doing it, the

1204
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,880
CEO is going to be fired and,
and it's going to become really

1205
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,600
problematic.
So I don't know, I don't know

1206
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:30,200
how we're going to fix this
problem.

1207
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:31,880
I just don't need it.
But I mean like, I don't know.

1208
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:36,520
And it's it goes back like I've,
you know, it's getting a little

1209
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,320
better now.
But like for the last five

1210
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,280
years, we were having stuff show
up.

1211
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:43,800
You got fixtures with two
different cables.

1212
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:50,040
You know, we had, you know, we
had, you know, true.

1213
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:55,040
Some were true one and, you
know, some weren't.

1214
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:58,600
And so and some it was like, oh,
well, now we're subbing that

1215
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,000
fixture for something that is
now true one.

1216
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,280
Now you got to go back and look
at the whole cable.

1217
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,680
And told Jesus.
And figure out, jeez, now I've

1218
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,440
got to split.
This up most.

1219
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,760
Cables are more expensive, but
how many of which each do I

1220
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,280
need?
What a pain in the butt.

1221
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,200
It.
Was have you had with LEDs?

1222
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,560
Have you also had binning
problems when it comes to

1223
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,360
timing?
Like the binning the color of

1224
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,280
the LED's?
Not that I've had, you know, by

1225
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,960
the time those fixtures are on
site and being used, by and

1226
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:32,080
large, that's not.
My.

1227
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:33,840
Problem.
Yeah, yeah, if.

1228
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,400
You've got a whole.
You're not going to hear back.

1229
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,800
For something, you call us up
and we will intervene with the

1230
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,600
factory because.
Generally the lower cost, the

1231
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:46,280
lower the cost of the fixtures,
the lower that binning is.

1232
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,920
And and so they you aren't able
to match like one that you buy

1233
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,800
today with one that you buy a
year from now in a very tight

1234
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,560
tolerance.
You know, it's usually a much

1235
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,600
wider gap in tolerance.
So if you put some year old ones

1236
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,280
up with some brand new ones,
you're going to go some's off

1237
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,480
and I'm not sure what.
You know, I think you're going

1238
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,560
to get that with almost
everything.

1239
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,640
Well, you don't if if like for
example, ETC.

1240
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,480
I'm sure uses very tight
tolerance on their binning.

1241
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,920
Most of the major manufacturers
that's not an issue anymore.

1242
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,279
But you know I come from the
olden days when that has been an

1243
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:27,720
issue a lot over time.
But you know the other thing I

1244
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,800
guess is to work with
manufacturers directly and say

1245
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,080
I'm going to put a source for
LED on here.

1246
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:36,920
I'm not going to put what
version it is.

1247
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,720
It's going to say latest
version.

1248
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,359
We're going to put a budgetary
number on there that you're

1249
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:45,720
going to agree to and if
they're, if the dealer needs to

1250
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,760
be compensated, it's from you,
not from the end customer,

1251
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:53,000
right, so.
Yeah, we, we can try and work

1252
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,600
that language in there.
The tricky part is, you know, we

1253
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,960
need to be fairly specific about
what the fixture is, because if

1254
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,439
we want a source 4, we need to
list some of those features of a

1255
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:07,560
source 4, right?
Separate it from another

1256
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:09,319
manufacturer.
Interesting.

1257
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:11,160
Yeah.
Whoever that may be, right.

1258
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:17,600
So we, you know, to just say
Source 4, then you get into,

1259
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:23,520
well, you know, we can now sell
the Source 4, you know, Series V

1260
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,920
or Series five.
Yeah, don't remember which.

1261
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,040
Yeah, V5, whatever.
Same thing, you know, for the

1262
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,479
for the Source 4, Series 3.
No, you can't.

1263
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,479
Right.
There, you know, you've got to

1264
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,120
have something in there that
says it's got to be 7 color,

1265
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,200
it's got to have lime.
It's got to have.

1266
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:45,040
Oh boy.
Otherwise, the dealer, not all

1267
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,920
dealers, yeah, some dealers are
going to see that as an

1268
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,399
opportunity to sell you a
cheaper fixture and make more

1269
01:09:51,399 --> 01:09:54,400
money, make more profit.
Yeah, I get it.

1270
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:59,640
So, so today you are now what's
your current role and, and let's

1271
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,280
let's talk about that because I
want to get in.

1272
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:03,440
We're talking about theater
design already, but.

1273
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:05,720
I want to kinds of good stuff.
I want to get into it.

1274
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,200
Beauty is well.
You were a Rep for a while too,

1275
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:09,960
right?
You, you were in the dark side a

1276
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,520
little.
While I I did that, I wanted to

1277
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,800
move to California after
building all those things in

1278
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,600
Times Square at the turn of the
Millennium.

1279
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,880
I kind of needed to get away
from IBEWA little bit, yeah.

1280
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:27,080
Well, actually, sorry, let me
ask you one question, because

1281
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,040
you mentioned the Millennium.
Were you dealing with a lot of

1282
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:34,920
that crazy Millennium failure
kind of stuff?

1283
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,680
Like, was that a big topic for
all of that stuff you were

1284
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,480
doing?
Oh, the I mean all of that.

1285
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:41,920
You know that.
All the clocks.

1286
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,840
We're gonna screw turn over to
00 and stop working.

1287
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:46,880
Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah.

1288
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,400
I mean, in the end it was a
bunch of noise about nothing,

1289
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:50,080
right?
But what?

1290
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,000
Yeah.
It was a bunch of noise about

1291
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:53,160
they're so.
Freaked.

1292
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,040
Out.
We did spend a little bit of

1293
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,600
time making sure that anything
we were writing, yeah, any

1294
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,880
software we had was going to
still be valid.

1295
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,800
Talking with certain
manufacturers like Pathway,

1296
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,320
right.
We were using a lot of Pathway

1297
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,560
stuff from DMX to distribution
back then.

1298
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:12,760
You and everyone else.
Yeah, a big frame card.

1299
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,480
Yeah, Yeah.
You know, you know, making sure

1300
01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:18,360
that their stuff was still gonna
work, but we weren't going

1301
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:20,360
crazy.
Yeah, yeah.

1302
01:11:20,440 --> 01:11:24,640
So you got into, you switch
sides again like this is amazing

1303
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,960
cuz you start in Rock'n'roll and
then you go to a school where

1304
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:32,120
you're the planning technical
director.

1305
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,960
Yeah.
Then you go to production arts

1306
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,920
where you're in systems
integration, and then you become

1307
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,920
a Rep and then you get a design.
I became a Rep.

1308
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:48,760
I became a Rep because Musson
had just hired a guy when I

1309
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:50,880
showed up looking for a job.
I see.

1310
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:51,760
Yeah.
Darn.

1311
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:55,640
Yeah, you know, but but the
local ETC Rep is looking for a

1312
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:57,040
guy.
And so I went and talked with

1313
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:02,360
him and, you know, I, I never
understood the value that a Rep

1314
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,160
added to the process when I
worked at Production Arts,

1315
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,240
because we called the factory.
Yeah, we didn't really deal with

1316
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:13,160
reps that much.
And so the, it seemed like it

1317
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:19,280
was gonna be an easy job out in
Berkeley, CA, which is where I

1318
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:22,600
wanted to move to do this for
two years.

1319
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:26,680
Chill out, you know, Take it
easy out here in California.

1320
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,640
You know, maybe I'll figure out
what a Rep adds to the value.

1321
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,880
That's good knowledge to have.
Yeah.

1322
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:34,800
Experience to have.
If you ever figure that out, let

1323
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,760
me know, will you I?
I'll, I'll let you know.

1324
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,040
No, I do.
I, I did learn that and I

1325
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,960
learned a lot of that actually
afterwards, you know, realizing

1326
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,720
kind of getting a better sense
of what I had been watching.

1327
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:48,960
Over there, I see.
Yeah.

1328
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,640
You know, and, and I went to
work for Mike wonder of Wonder

1329
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,680
Lighting and I'm under lighting
controls.

1330
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,640
He worked for a different
company.

1331
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,640
He worked for a lighting
architecture lighting Rep agency

1332
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,240
at the time.
And I went to work for him there

1333
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,960
and he asked me during my
interview, you're not going to

1334
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,280
go, you're not going to work for
me for like 2 years and then go

1335
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:10,760
to our back, are you?
And I said absolutely not.

1336
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:13,360
You know, I had no intention of
doing that.

1337
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,720
I'd interviewed with them.
They were looking for AV guys.

1338
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:17,800
That wasn't me.
So absolutely not.

1339
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,520
And, well, I stayed with him for
three years.

1340
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:21,800
Yeah.
So I was good.

1341
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,040
I was good.
My word.

1342
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,600
Yeah.
You know, but you ended up an

1343
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,200
hour back.
I did, you know, I learned a lot

1344
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,400
of different things.
You know, I learned.

1345
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,760
I learned a lot of business in
that role.

1346
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:40,600
That was really good to know,
you know customer.

1347
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:44,120
Service, yeah.
You know, a little bit of sales,

1348
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,760
you know, sorry.
I learned some good things there

1349
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,800
and and met some good people.
But it, you know, the, the nice

1350
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,560
cushy job for two years, it kind
of turned into three years and I

1351
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:56,800
was like, all right, I want to
kind of work again.

1352
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:02,000
Yeah, yeah, You know, so, so I
quit and I, I was jobbing in at

1353
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,040
the Berkeley Rep and having a
good time doing that, but making

1354
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,160
plans to head back to New York
and then.

1355
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:09,800
And then at the time was
Auerbach.

1356
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:14,480
Auerbach Pilot Friedlander
called me and I said, you know,

1357
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:17,280
we hear you're looking come on
in and talk to us.

1358
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,200
And, you know, I wouldn't talk
to them.

1359
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,120
And they offered me a job and I
was like, OK, well, I'm staying

1360
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:25,520
in California now because this
is, again, you know, this is the

1361
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,160
pinnacle, yeah, of theater
consulting.

1362
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,400
And that was during the days
when we were doing all the

1363
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:35,040
search shows in Las Vegas and,
and the, you know, all the LDS

1364
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,160
Conference Center and, and all
of those big heady projects.

1365
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:43,120
And, you know, it's like, wow,
this is, you know, this is

1366
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,320
really cool.
You know, I've gone from working

1367
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:49,360
in the build, you know, bringing
stuff to the buildings, to

1368
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:52,120
working in the buildings, to
installing stuff in the

1369
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,440
buildings to now, you know,
let's go design the building.

1370
01:14:55,440 --> 01:14:57,120
Right, that's the next cool,
isn't it?

1371
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,360
And it was great, and it's hard.
Yeah.

1372
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:03,200
You know I.
Can only imagine.

1373
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,040
No, you know, I felt like, you
know, I've been in the lighting

1374
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,520
business for a while and I said,
you know, I've, I've got this

1375
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,520
handful of sand and I I really,
I understand every grain in this

1376
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,440
handful of sand.
And then I look up and I'm

1377
01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:18,040
standing on the beach.
Oh.

1378
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,680
Jesus, wow.
There is a lot to learn here.

1379
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:26,680
Well, did you have to, did you
have to become a part architect

1380
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,080
as well?
Like I'm sure there was a lot of

1381
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:30,920
that.
Like what goes into what you

1382
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:32,680
know?
Architecture.

1383
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:36,040
But I had to learn a lot about
architecture really quickly.

1384
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,760
Yeah, yeah, I had to learn about
architecture really quickly.

1385
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,320
I'd learn about structural
engineering really quickly.

1386
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,120
Mechanical Engineering.
Electrical Engineering.

1387
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:48,760
So as a theater design, as a
theater designer, you're

1388
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,320
probably working as part of a
team where you have an

1389
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:53,680
architect.
And that's right.

1390
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,320
Yeah, that's right.
So sometimes we start very

1391
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:00,240
early, like with the client who
says we want to build a theater

1392
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,120
and we need to study the
feasibility and we need to get

1393
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:06,480
an idea of what we need and
we'll start that early with

1394
01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:09,040
them.
And then there are other people

1395
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:13,240
who also just do that.
More often than not, it's an

1396
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:16,800
architect either says we're
we're going to try and get this

1397
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:18,920
job, join our team.
Yeah.

1398
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:22,800
Or I've got this job and now I
need a theater consultant.

1399
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,480
So the architect has been hired
by the the client to build a

1400
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:31,760
theater and they don't know Jack
about building a theater so they

1401
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,840
bring you.
In, you know, well, there some

1402
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,800
do and there are some who who,
I'm not going to say specialize

1403
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,200
in it, but there are some who do
a lot.

1404
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,840
And so they have a really good
knowledge of it, but they still

1405
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,040
want someone taking care of the
details.

1406
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,600
Yeah.
And looking at the design with a

1407
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,360
different eye, I see to make
everything work together.

1408
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:56,080
And then, yeah, there are some
who just have no experience with

1409
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,040
that sort of building before and
and they need help.

1410
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:03,280
Yeah, or maybe the theater is
part of a larger project and

1411
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,000
they're doing the larger project
and they're like, oh, by the

1412
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:08,840
way, we need to figure something
out for this.

1413
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:10,080
Theater.
Something out over here in this

1414
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:11,040
theater.
Yeah.

1415
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:15,160
Yeah, you know, because they're,
they are really unique building

1416
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:16,160
types.
Yeah.

1417
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:21,040
And there's a lot of really
specialized stuff happening in a

1418
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,600
theater that in a way like
people working in theaters

1419
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:28,160
almost don't really think about
because you take it for granted,

1420
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,640
because it is always there.
Yeah, yeah.

1421
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,400
It's always there and you've
been in theaters your whole

1422
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:35,920
life, so you're just used to
there being that stuff there.

1423
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,280
But.
It's gotta get there.

1424
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,680
Yeah, you know.
Well, So what what are some of

1425
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:45,560
the topics that that like you're
immediately covering like

1426
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,320
everything from seating to
ingress and.

1427
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,480
You know, she yeah, absolutely
everything.

1428
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:52,160
Where?
How?

1429
01:17:52,440 --> 01:17:55,400
You're gonna come in how?
What's the load in look like?

1430
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:57,840
What's the load out look like?
Exactly.

1431
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,280
All of that kind of stuff, you
know, the we like to say the

1432
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:05,480
show starts the minute somebody
pulls up, you know, park their

1433
01:18:05,480 --> 01:18:06,440
car.
Yeah.

1434
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,520
You know, how easy is it to get
from the parking lot to the

1435
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,160
lobby?
How big does that lobby have to

1436
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:16,160
be for your audience size?
And where are you located?

1437
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:20,280
Can you use more outdoor space
for lobby space?

1438
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:22,920
Does it all have to be enclosed?
Use it.

1439
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:25,200
You know, is it in a cold
weather environment?

1440
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:28,200
You need a big coat check?
Do people really check their

1441
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:30,720
coats around here, or do they
just hold them on their laps or

1442
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:31,880
keep them on?
Yeah.

1443
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:37,360
You know, that's a big question.
Box offices these days, do we

1444
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,000
need a box office or do we just
need a kiosk?

1445
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,560
Yeah, that's, you know, people
are scanning their tickets or

1446
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,320
printing them out, you know,
restroom sizes.

1447
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:51,080
Restrooms are a huge deal.
Yeah, you have no idea.

1448
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:52,960
Well.
Just screw it up and you'll get

1449
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:54,120
a really good idea.
Well.

1450
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:58,080
Because the codes, the codes are
the codes say X number of people

1451
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:01,840
you need X number of fixtures,
but that's kind of designed on

1452
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:05,520
people going in and out all day
long over an 8 hour day.

1453
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:10,280
It's not designed around a mass
of people trying to use them

1454
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:11,760
over 15 minutes.
Yeah.

1455
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:16,120
And so we've got to convince the
architect to put in way more

1456
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:17,960
restrooms than the code
requires.

1457
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,680
But that's a ton of room.
And that's room that they can't

1458
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,560
use for their fancy lobby.
That's square footage that you

1459
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:26,920
have to pay.
That's expensive.

1460
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:27,720
Square.
Footage.

1461
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:32,040
That you have to pay for, you
know, and then there's, you

1462
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,920
know, do we have, you know,
snack bars or, or refreshment

1463
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,560
stands?
Is the lobby going to be used

1464
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,400
for events or small
performances?

1465
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,320
Well, then we need power and we
need AV connections and we need

1466
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:46,960
those things, but they've got to
be hidden because it's a, it's a

1467
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,000
pretty lobby.
And so who are are you

1468
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,440
consulting with the end client
on those kinds of things, so?

1469
01:19:52,440 --> 01:19:56,160
We're we're consulting with the
architect, the end client and

1470
01:19:56,160 --> 01:20:02,280
interior designer, sometimes an
acoustician, a mechanical

1471
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:08,200
consultant, because you know the
thing think about theatre and

1472
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,320
and.
You know, air handling.

1473
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,240
Yeah.
These are huge spaces.

1474
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,480
Yeah.
And you have to get the air to

1475
01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:19,560
them, but you can't just run
ductwork.

1476
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:21,280
Everywhere.
Yeah, right.

1477
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:23,600
You kind of got to keep it over
to the side.

1478
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:29,040
So we need to get really big
ductwork because you also can't

1479
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:33,040
have that air blowing really
fast to have enough velocity to

1480
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:34,880
get to the middle of the room.
Yeah.

1481
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,720
Right.
It's got to go really slow, so

1482
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:40,240
you're not bothering the people
or you're not blowing the

1483
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:42,280
drapery around.
Yeah, yeah.

1484
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:47,320
So, you know, we've got to cram
really big, huge ducks into

1485
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,040
these spaces, but make them
unobtrusive.

1486
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,120
Well, and also do the actual air
handling units need to go

1487
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,520
further away than they would in
a normal building?

1488
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,240
Because.
Of noise, you know, or they need

1489
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:02,840
to get into a a basement that's
really difficult and expensive

1490
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,000
or they need to get up on the
roof.

1491
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:09,920
But the roof, you're worried
about vibration and noise or do

1492
01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:12,160
you get another room somewhere
else?

1493
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,120
And then yeah, that's farther
and that upsizes your ducts.

1494
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:21,760
And you know, most people think
about supply air getting the the

1495
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:23,240
cooler, the warm air into the
room.

1496
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:24,920
They're not thinking about
return air.

1497
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,480
Yeah, right.
You've also got to suck the air

1498
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:31,280
out back to the air conditioner
to chill it up again.

1499
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,240
Or back to the heater, Yeah.
Right.

1500
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:36,680
So the you don't just need big
ducks supplying air, but you

1501
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:40,840
need big ducks removing air and
you need those at the right

1502
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:44,920
place that your air isn't
sucking from one place, you

1503
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:46,120
know?
Yeah, to the other.

1504
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:48,400
Yeah, in a in a bad way.
Yeah.

1505
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,720
What about things like the size
of the stage?

1506
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:55,480
Is that just a direct
relationship with the the number

1507
01:21:55,480 --> 01:21:59,200
of seats or is it a decision
made by the owner?

1508
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:01,960
It it's, it's a combination of
all three.

1509
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:05,600
You know, if it's a certain size
audience, well, you need a

1510
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,200
certain size proscenium so
everyone can see.

1511
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:10,440
Yeah.
And, and that kind of means you

1512
01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:13,360
need a certain size stage and
you need a certain amount of

1513
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:17,040
wing space.
But that's where you start

1514
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:21,240
fighting with the architect who
always wants to shrink that box.

1515
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,120
Yeah, of course.
And give you less wing space and

1516
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:28,960
less upstage space.
And so you fight for every inch

1517
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,200
of of that.
Wings.

1518
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,520
Well, because he's looking for
seats, right?

1519
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:35,200
Well, he's looking for seats,
but he's also just looking for

1520
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:36,440
square footage.
Yeah.

1521
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:38,960
You know, he was incredibly
expensive.

1522
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,480
Yeah.
You know you're starting it at

1523
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,120
at a minimum of $1200 a square
foot.

1524
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,120
Yeah.
Oh yeah, that's your, that's

1525
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,560
your base number these days.
Yeah, that's that's a lot.

1526
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:54,240
Like, I mean, when you're
talking about like a, you know,

1527
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:58,560
a, a high end house is is 500 a
square foot or whatever, right?

1528
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,120
And that's, that's a lot.
That's incredible.

1529
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,520
Wow.
So you know, every square foot

1530
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:09,400
and, and in the early stages,
that's kind of what you have to

1531
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:14,280
go on for your cost, you know,
for your budget for this thing

1532
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:15,880
before you've really designed
the building.

1533
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,880
Well, we know it's going to be
100,000 square feet and we know

1534
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:22,600
it's, we're going to, you know,
be cheap on the finishes and

1535
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,000
we're going to be really
efficient.

1536
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,400
And so we're going to say 1200
bucks a square foot.

1537
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:32,120
Well, you know, so now you've
got, you know, $120 million

1538
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,680
building.
OK, can we get that down to 90

1539
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,080
million?
Well, the only way you do that

1540
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:41,200
is by cutting square footage.
Well, so when it comes to

1541
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:44,600
budgets, like are you fed a
budget or are you going back to

1542
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,280
them and saying here's what it's
going to cost you to do what

1543
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:52,680
you're asking to build?
Usually we say, here's what the

1544
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,480
theatrical systems are going to
cost.

1545
01:23:55,480 --> 01:23:59,240
Yeah.
And we're usually pretty

1546
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:03,400
accurate because we collect a
lot of data from manufacturers

1547
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,880
and some previous jobs and from
just talking to people, so.

1548
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:11,000
So they're not coming to you and
saying you've got 250,000 for

1549
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:13,960
lighting and and 200 and 100,000
for.

1550
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:16,800
Audio or whatever they say,
sometimes they say this is the

1551
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,880
budget and this is what you get.
So what can we get for that?

1552
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,480
Yeah.
And, and we do that, you know,

1553
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:27,280
so you sometimes you design to a
budget, sometimes you budget to

1554
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:30,280
a design.
Yeah, if that's the design you

1555
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:31,880
want, this is what it's going to
cost you.

1556
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:36,520
So do you have lighting design
on staff and and audio

1557
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,840
engineering on staff or is that
all sort of subbed in?

1558
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:42,960
No.
So we don't have designers.

1559
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:47,840
So what we do per SE is, but you
know, a lot of us have had some

1560
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:51,880
experience and you know, so but
we look at it sort of as a big

1561
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:54,280
picture, right?
And there's a, there's a lot of

1562
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:57,800
just experience goes into it.
Well, a room this big or a stage

1563
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:01,920
this big, you're going to need,
you know, X dimmers or these

1564
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:06,240
days X relays.
And if you have X relays, you

1565
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:12,280
kind of need an inventory of Y
fixtures and cable and, you

1566
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:14,640
know, can you afford movers?
Do you have a staff that

1567
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,720
understands movers?
You know, things like that.

1568
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,480
And so we come up with a, you
know, a rough idea of what the

1569
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:28,040
system will be and what the
loose equipment will be for, you

1570
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:31,160
know, lighting and rigging and
AV.

1571
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:36,280
Interesting.
And some kind of projection and

1572
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:38,240
drapery.
And then also, yeah, you know,

1573
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,080
the seats.
Seats are you have no idea how

1574
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:43,320
much time is spent on the.
Seats.

1575
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:47,800
Yeah, both the seating
arrangement and the actual

1576
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,480
chairs themselves.
I could see that being.

1577
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:55,240
Yeah, a ton, a ton of time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1578
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,800
And is that just because of
everyone has a different idea of

1579
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:01,680
should the seats be high back,
low back, you know, should they

1580
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:03,680
be angled?
Should they be sitting straight

1581
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:05,080
up?
Should they be too comfortable?

1582
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:06,960
Not comfortable enough?
You know, there's a, there's a

1583
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,800
lot of that.
Yeah, there's a lot of we don't

1584
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:11,320
know, you know, we don't have an
idea.

1585
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:14,880
Show us some ideas so we can
start having ideas.

1586
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:18,360
And that's when you know, you
really panic because you know,

1587
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:20,000
I've got thousands to choose
from.

1588
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,880
Which 6 should I show them?
Yeah, yeah, to.

1589
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,560
Start their decision.
You know, I'm going to affect

1590
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,600
their decision making process
here with these six because

1591
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,640
they're gonna start narrowing it
down between these six.

1592
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,160
Yeah, they're not gonna say,
okay, that's six, show us six

1593
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:37,760
more, show us.
Yeah, yeah.

1594
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:42,040
Well, otherwise, yeah, it's like
a Cheesecake Factory menu, you

1595
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,200
know what I mean?
It's like, do I want pasta or a

1596
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:49,720
cheeseburger or chicken or like,
what do I want, you know?

1597
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,520
You know, and some of it is, you
know, you narrow it down based

1598
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:55,160
on the budget or the type of
facility, right.

1599
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,480
What the finish.
Sometimes the architect, just

1600
01:26:57,480 --> 01:27:00,280
kind of, if it's an architect
who knows what they're doing,

1601
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:04,640
he'll say, I want, you know,
this chair, Yeah.

1602
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:10,760
Or I want this chair, but I want
to modify it to my own design.

1603
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,840
Yeah, Yeah.
So.

1604
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:17,560
Seating's a big deal.
Partners at the Mount Royal

1605
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:19,960
project up near.
You in Calgary?

1606
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,240
Yeah.
He had this crazy design that he

1607
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:26,240
did for the armrest with all
these angles and things and I

1608
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:29,400
didn't understand it at all.
And I'm like, you know, all

1609
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:31,280
right, Bill, you know, you know
what you're doing.

1610
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:33,200
You're, you're a great theater
designer.

1611
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:36,720
So all right, you know, this is
his weird design for the

1612
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,360
armrests.
And we just kind of went through

1613
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:41,080
the process and went through the
submittals and the mock ups and

1614
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:43,160
all of that.
And then towards the end of the

1615
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:46,280
job, the seats are installed and
I'm watching the Carpenter.

1616
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:51,000
The finished Carpenter put put
the the detail on the stage

1617
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,240
front.
And I look at the detail he's

1618
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,760
putting on the stage front, and
I look at the chairs and I look

1619
01:27:57,760 --> 01:27:59,800
at the stage front.
I get it, yeah.

1620
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,240
Oh, does that look good.
Yeah.

1621
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:07,800
The chairs just go right into
the OH.

1622
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:10,920
That's neat.
Yeah, that's neat.

1623
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:13,720
So, you know, there are moments
where you're just like probably.

1624
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:16,400
Something that only a bunch of
geeky theater designers would

1625
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:18,520
even notice, by the way, you
know.

1626
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,360
You it's the thing that only
people would notice.

1627
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,720
But what I found is a lot of
times it's the things that they

1628
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:29,000
don't notice that make them
comfortable.

1629
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:33,280
Yeah.
You know, in a way, if more and

1630
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:36,760
more people notice them, well,
now you've drawn attention to

1631
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:38,160
it.
And was that your intention or

1632
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,600
were you just trying to make
make it nice?

1633
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:45,480
So back to the the the AV, the
sound and lighting, are you

1634
01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:50,360
designing typically with the
expectation that larger product

1635
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:54,160
productions are going to be
bringing in product, additional

1636
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:58,320
product or that this we're going
to put in a lighting package

1637
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:02,080
that anyone can use?
That's gonna depend a lot on the

1638
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:06,000
venue, OK?
You know, is it a place that

1639
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:09,200
that wants to have outside Some
places like Nope, we're a

1640
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:11,640
producing house.
We only do our in house stuff,

1641
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,960
OK.
Or we're a college theater.

1642
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,320
We do our campus events.
That's it.

1643
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:19,880
Yeah.
Others are.

1644
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,640
We're a college theater, but
we're also the town's theater,

1645
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,520
so other things are going to
come in here.

1646
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,600
Or sometimes it's no.
We're building a Performing Arts

1647
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,280
Center for the Symphony, and we
also want to bring in touring

1648
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:32,320
Broadway.
Yeah.

1649
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:36,440
So, you know, we'll, we'll do
the design differently for each

1650
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:40,520
one of those and each one we
designed specifically for it.

1651
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,400
We don't say all right, 700
seats, you get package A.

1652
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,840
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's everyone is really, you

1653
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:51,320
know, we look at what you're
want to do in your theater, but

1654
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:55,400
then we also think about what
might want to be done because

1655
01:29:55,440 --> 01:29:59,200
we're not just building it for
you, we're building it for you

1656
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,600
and the people that come after
you and come after you, right.

1657
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:03,840
These buildings are there for,
you know, we're building them

1658
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:07,040
for 5075 years.
So we've got to kind of think

1659
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:10,200
down the road a little bit.
Yeah.

1660
01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:13,320
You know, you're the TD now and
this is what you like.

1661
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:15,040
And I get it and I agree with
you.

1662
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:19,480
But the next guy?
Yeah, yeah, they're going to

1663
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:21,480
want to change everything.
Yeah, yeah.

1664
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:26,160
So when when a project becomes
yours, in other words, it's gone

1665
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:30,080
through the negotiations and
it's now on your desk from there

1666
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:34,600
till doors open.
The first time is four or five

1667
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,800
years.
Could be, could be as little as

1668
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,520
two.
Yeah, Could be, could be 10.

1669
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:44,080
Wow, 10 or 12, you know,
depending on how it goes.

1670
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:47,920
I in our industry, I have no
idea how you spec product for a

1671
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:51,520
10 or 12 year well.
For 10 or 12 years, you, you

1672
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:53,800
kind of, they usually it's
something that you know, went to

1673
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:56,520
sleep and you come back and you
revisit everything I see.

1674
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,400
Yeah, yeah, the norm is between
2:00 and.

1675
01:31:00,480 --> 01:31:03,160
Five years, I'd say, you know,
three to five years, yeah.

1676
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:04,440
OK, probably.
Yeah.

1677
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:09,600
Even then, I mean like right now
if I think five years ago, how

1678
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:13,640
many fixtures are, you know,
latest, greatest right now that

1679
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:15,880
we're actually shipping five
years ago, it's very few.

1680
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,200
Yeah, very few.
Well, that's when I started it.

1681
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:21,760
It was lighting, particularly,
it was kind of.

1682
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:24,960
Easy, yeah.
Because if you came to me and

1683
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,360
said I need a theater in five
years, what kind of lighting

1684
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:29,440
system do I need?
You need this.

1685
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:32,480
Yeah, Source Fours and an
Obsession console.

1686
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:35,880
But if you ask me today, what do
you need in five years?

1687
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:40,680
Well, even like MA 2 five years
ago was the console, right?

1688
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:45,520
MA 3 wasn't the console yet, so
five years from now I think we

1689
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:48,200
could expect that we're going to
see MA 4, you know?

1690
01:31:48,440 --> 01:31:51,880
I mean in a way, and I say, I
say this with all love and

1691
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,320
respect, I don't really care
what the console was.

1692
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:55,840
Yeah.
Right.

1693
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:58,640
I'm never going to use it as
long as it's appropriate to the

1694
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:03,400
venue and the operators are
happy with it and it's writer

1695
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,480
friendly for the places where it
needs to be.

1696
01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:08,080
Doesn't matter I.
Don't need to know the

1697
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:12,200
difference between an MA 3 and
an MA four and an axios and a

1698
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:14,040
yeah no.
Right.

1699
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:17,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But at the end of the day

1700
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:18,720
though, I don't.
Use it.

1701
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:23,000
Right I don't I, I.
But isn't the client gonna be

1702
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:26,440
annoyed if they get an MA 3 when
the MA 4 is the?

1703
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:30,000
Oh, yeah, yeah, No, I mean, we
have to like keep, we have to

1704
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:33,160
pay attention to it and make
sure and check in with them on

1705
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:35,480
what they're getting.
A lot of times we don't actually

1706
01:32:35,480 --> 01:32:38,400
have an end user when we're
designing.

1707
01:32:38,440 --> 01:32:44,920
I see, you know, we like it when
we do, but a lot of times, you

1708
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:48,160
know, they they don't have an
end user because the building's

1709
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,040
not built yet.
Why are we gonna hire a lighting

1710
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,000
designer right until the very
end?

1711
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:58,040
So or, or you know, the worst,
the worst is when we're doing

1712
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:01,000
like a college and they're
building in a theater or they're

1713
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:04,280
renovating a theater and they
don't let us talk to the staff

1714
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,360
because they're afraid that the
staff is going to come up with

1715
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:11,000
all kinds of ideas that are
going to drive the cost up.

1716
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:14,280
Oh, Jesus.
And, and usually they don't

1717
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:16,200
because we don't get to talk to
anybody.

1718
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:18,480
We've got to assume you need
everything, right?

1719
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:21,520
You need an orchestra lift, you
need a trap, you need an

1720
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:24,800
orchestra shell, you need, you
need all of this stuff.

1721
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,120
And when you get the people in
the room, a lot of the times

1722
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:29,240
they're like, oh, we we'd never
use a trap.

1723
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:33,840
Don't bother with that, you
know, or we don't really need

1724
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,000
like 2400 amp switches, you
know, give me two, two hundreds

1725
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:38,480
and we'll be fine.
Wow.

1726
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:42,840
So if you're watching and you
work some place that is

1727
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:47,960
renovating your theater or
building a new theater, get

1728
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:52,040
involved.
Yell, shout, Hey, I need to be

1729
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,600
heard.
We, we often like, reach out to

1730
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:58,800
like the tech director and say,
Hey, I got the invitation to the

1731
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:03,480
meeting on Wednesday at 3:30 in
room 214 and I didn't see your

1732
01:34:03,480 --> 01:34:07,560
name on it, you know, because we
want them there.

1733
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:09,440
Who invited you here?
That's right.

1734
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,240
You know, yeah, yeah, You know,
so we, you know, and even if it

1735
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:17,880
involves back channeling like a
fixture list.

1736
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:22,040
Yeah.
Well, but at the end of the day

1737
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:23,240
like.
There isn't.

1738
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:27,880
You know the way we write it is
we write on this fixture list.

1739
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:32,480
The end users shall have the
opportunity to change this list

1740
01:34:32,480 --> 01:34:39,040
within the agreed upon cost of
the package up until you know

1741
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,160
the drop dead date for shipping.
Yeah.

1742
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:45,760
That way, you know, because I'll
pick a bunch of stuff.

1743
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,960
Sometimes I'm just trying to get
a price, you know, Like I want

1744
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:51,840
them to have 3000, three
$100,000 worth of fixtures.

1745
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,360
So I'll put together a list
that's going to get me somewhere

1746
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:57,880
around 300,000.
Three people are going to bid on

1747
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:01,720
it and they know basically we're
selling $300,000 worth of gear.

1748
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:03,240
Yeah.
What it is.

1749
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:08,400
It may be this list, you know,
but you, I may have put a Orton

1750
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:10,200
on it.
And the guy they hire likes Mac.

1751
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:11,560
Yeah.
All right.

1752
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:13,800
You know, forget the Macs.
I don't care.

1753
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:15,560
Yeah.
Right at the end of the day, it

1754
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:18,400
doesn't change your life.
I've got no dog in that fight

1755
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:19,640
whatsoever.
You might have been.

1756
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:22,400
On on the phone the next day
going what the hell did you do?

1757
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:25,280
Well, that, I mean, sometimes,
you know, that happens.

1758
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:28,400
Yeah, you know, it does.
And people get pissed off.

1759
01:35:28,440 --> 01:35:30,560
Yeah.
Sometimes when I know like this

1760
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,080
is a really good product, we'll
put something in there to try

1761
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:36,920
and hold the spec.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

1762
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:41,840
So your, your sweet spot, I
guess is theaters.

1763
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:43,400
But theaters?
How?

1764
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:50,240
How wide is that description?
Anything from a middle school

1765
01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:56,720
auditorium to a custom built
theatre for Cirque du Soleil or

1766
01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:00,000
a, you know, a 15,000 seat
Amphitheatre.

1767
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:04,200
Oh wow, you get that big, huh?
You know, amphitheatres are

1768
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:08,080
probably the biggest projects
that most theatre consultants

1769
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:10,720
do, just in terms of capacity.
Wow.

1770
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:12,640
But they're some of my
favorites.

1771
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:15,760
I mean, my favorites are the the
live music venues.

1772
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:16,880
Yeah.
You.

1773
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,080
Know if I could just focus on
those, I'd be a happy guy.

1774
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:23,080
Yeah, because you're a fan of of
live music.

1775
01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:27,320
And you know, and because I
know, I know what it takes to do

1776
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:28,600
them right.
Yeah.

1777
01:36:29,440 --> 01:36:33,000
And to make not only the the
audience happy, but the crew

1778
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,880
happy, and that makes the owners
happy.

1779
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:36,720
Yeah.
Well, one of the things I read

1780
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:41,800
in your bio that I really liked
was that you mentioned that, you

1781
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:46,520
know, I'm looking to sort of
make all of those people happy.

1782
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,240
Whether you're the crew carrying
the piece of gear in the back

1783
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:52,040
door or you're the performer on
the stage or you're the person

1784
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:55,240
in the audience or you're the
owner and you want to see it

1785
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:59,640
sort of from everybody's eyes.
And you know, like I'll give an

1786
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:02,960
example, the best example
probably in our industry, what's

1787
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:07,440
what's the coolest venue with
the worst load in Red Rocks, of

1788
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:09,760
course.
And you know, everyone knows

1789
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:13,120
that in our in our industry,
it's the most beautiful,

1790
01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:17,720
stunning, unbelievable place to
see a show, unless you're the

1791
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:21,480
poor souls who have to load in
and out of that place.

1792
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:26,320
You know, and you know, it's so
funny, you fell right into my

1793
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:28,960
lap on that one answering the
correct answer.

1794
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:32,000
But it's what anyone would say.
Anyone who's ever been there

1795
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:35,520
would say the same thing.
And you know, loading is really

1796
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:37,800
important, right?
You know which which side of the

1797
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:42,240
stage are you is the door.
You know, I try and not put it

1798
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:47,080
up center so that you know, you
can get that you can get the

1799
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:51,320
opening band out and on the
truck while the headliners play.

1800
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:54,160
Yeah.
You know, but it's harder with

1801
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:56,800
an up center.
Yeah, because you got that door

1802
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:59,200
open and things are blown.
So you're applying common.

1803
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:03,240
Sense common sense, right?
You know, Jesus, I once had I, I

1804
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:07,880
had a guy who is looking for who
to design their, their, their

1805
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:10,840
showroom theater.
And he said, you know, what's

1806
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:15,480
the one thing you can tell me
that I can put in this, you know

1807
01:38:15,480 --> 01:38:17,680
that that no one else is going
to tell me to do.

1808
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:21,360
And I said put a washer and
dryer backstage for the crew,

1809
01:38:21,440 --> 01:38:25,000
for the touring crew to use.
We got the job.

1810
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:29,280
Wow, that's really cool.
So put a.

1811
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:31,320
Bathroom on the loading dock,
Yeah.

1812
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:34,640
You know.
Like make it easy for these guys

1813
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:41,640
put put a company switch with
with lugs and tails out on the

1814
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:44,680
dock so when the truck rolls in
at 3:00 in the morning, when the

1815
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:47,200
bus rolls in at 3:00 in the
morning, he can hook up the

1816
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:50,320
shore power turn the generator.
On Yeah.

1817
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:53,720
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean these are really

1818
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:57,600
common sense things.
And so you really are looking to

1819
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,960
make it comfortable, not just
for the band with great dressing

1820
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:06,040
rooms or green room or whatever
it is, but also for the crew and

1821
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:07,880
that because that's where if
the.

1822
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:10,160
Crew has a bad day.
Yeah.

1823
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:12,440
The show's not going to be as
great.

1824
01:39:12,440 --> 01:39:15,840
Yeah, right.
It was a pain in the ass to load

1825
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:20,400
in, so sound check got cut short
or we didn't have time to focus

1826
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:25,040
everything or whatever it is.
And so it's not gonna be the

1827
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:26,280
best show.
Yeah.

1828
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:29,040
And at the end of the day,
right, it's not the artist who

1829
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:33,160
decides the tour, it's the tour
manager, we.

1830
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:36,880
And so if the crew is bitching
about the flight of steps in

1831
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:39,480
that place, well, they're not
going to want to come back next

1832
01:39:39,480 --> 01:39:41,200
year.
Yet, you know, the other thing

1833
01:39:41,200 --> 01:39:43,800
is I think there's a trickle up
effect to that too.

1834
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,080
Like you said, you know, they're
not going to want to come back

1835
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:51,360
next year, but but also like the
band deciding on where we're

1836
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:54,120
going to do our rehearsals.
Hey, maybe we should go to Venue

1837
01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:56,760
X over there because they've
got, you know, really great

1838
01:39:56,760 --> 01:40:00,080
facilities and that would be a
great place to do our

1839
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:03,000
rehearsals.
So there's actually a business

1840
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:07,400
benefit to the owner of the
venue as well, because you know

1841
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:10,160
you've created a place that
people are comfortable in and.

1842
01:40:10,480 --> 01:40:13,680
You know, I tell the Indian
gaming people, you know, who are

1843
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:15,600
building all their venues right
now.

1844
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:17,720
Yeah, I see.
You know, it's really easy to

1845
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:19,600
get somebody to come to your new
venue.

1846
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:22,360
Yeah, but you want them to come
back next year and the year

1847
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:24,960
after and the year after and you
want them to come on the same

1848
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:26,040
dates.
Yeah.

1849
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:29,800
Because then their fans are
going to say, oh, the weekend of

1850
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:32,960
July 30th, I'm going to Yamava.
Yeah.

1851
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:36,960
And I'm going to see my band.
And I'm going to book a hotel

1852
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:38,360
room.
And I'm going to spend money in

1853
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:40,920
the restaurant When the show's
over, I'm going to buy some

1854
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:42,520
drinks.
And I'm going to gamble and I'm

1855
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:45,560
going to eat.
And if the room is a little

1856
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:49,160
smaller and my favorite band is
playing two nights, I'm going to

1857
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:50,320
see both shows.
Yeah.

1858
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:54,480
You know, And that's, you know,
now you're really making money

1859
01:40:54,480 --> 01:40:56,000
on night, too.
Yeah.

1860
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:00,320
So, you know, that's you know,
so yeah, making it so that the

1861
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:03,240
crew wants to come back, that
the crew is like, I can't wait

1862
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:05,160
till we get there.
I'm going to get a shower and

1863
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:06,040
get to do my.
Laundry.

1864
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:07,800
Yeah, Yeah.
You know that's.

1865
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:08,480
Great.
Yeah.

1866
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:12,720
It it costs nothing in terms of
the cost of building the venue,

1867
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:16,960
but it makes such a difference
in the quality of the experience

1868
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:19,320
for the people working in.
There, well, even things like

1869
01:41:19,320 --> 01:41:21,600
the sight lines and and stuff
like that.

1870
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:24,720
For the audience, I mean, again,
everyone's going to think about

1871
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:28,240
it a little bit, but if you're
if you're, you know, passionate

1872
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,360
about that, you know, like I'll
give you an example last.

1873
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:36,160
I'm a big UFC fan and last
weekend was the first time ever

1874
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:39,880
that a fight was in the sphere
in Las Vegas.

1875
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:45,280
And so a lot of their most
expensive seats, like near the

1876
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:50,680
near the ring didn't have a view
of what are you paying for in

1877
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:54,400
the sphere, this massive video
screen that goes overhead and

1878
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:56,920
stuff, right.
So in general, some of the seats

1879
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:01,480
back in the in the bleachers
were much better seats than the

1880
01:42:01,480 --> 01:42:05,240
ones that were close to the
ring, which usually get you 10

1881
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:10,960
fifteen, $20,000 a seat, right?
And it was an interesting thing

1882
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:14,280
to to witness that going down,
you know, because people were

1883
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:17,000
complaining that they paid all
this money for these seats and

1884
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:18,520
they couldn't see this killer
screen.

1885
01:42:19,160 --> 01:42:23,040
That's an argument I always use
when when a code official wants

1886
01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:25,120
us to put wheelchairs in the
front row.

1887
01:42:26,440 --> 01:42:29,040
Yeah.
And I say, you know, we can, you

1888
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:31,880
know, like, look, we can do it,
but you know, it's going to be

1889
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:34,240
difficult.
It's going to cost us a bunch of

1890
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:37,400
other seats and it's not a good
seat.

1891
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:39,720
No.
You know that front row seat is

1892
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:41,000
not great.
Yeah.

1893
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:44,760
And so, you know, if you let us
put them back here just a little

1894
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:45,800
bit.
Yeah.

1895
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:48,480
That's a better seat.
You know, I've noticed that even

1896
01:42:48,480 --> 01:42:51,760
with movie theaters now, like
they, they have that aisle way

1897
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,720
that goes down the center and
behind that aisle way and before

1898
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,120
the next row of seats is where
the wheelchairs go.

1899
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:00,360
And so they're the best seats in
the house suddenly, right As

1900
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:03,520
they should be.
And so, yeah.

1901
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:05,520
Yeah, yeah.
The best seats in the house are

1902
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:07,240
not always the best seats in the
house.

1903
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:10,720
We have a really nice concert
hall that we built near here,

1904
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:12,840
the Green Music Center at Sonoma
State.

1905
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:18,320
And whenever I go, I get a seat
down front in the upper balcony

1906
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:22,640
because acoustically that is the
best seat in the house.

1907
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,800
Yeah, 7th row orchestra.
Not the best seat in the house.

1908
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:27,560
And you would know.
You would know.

1909
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:31,200
It's up there, yeah.
Well, I mean especially a lot of

1910
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:35,040
the venues now, either the
venues or the acts or whatever

1911
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:38,800
have imag video playing on
massive LED screens.

1912
01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:42,920
And so you don't necessarily
have to be in the 1st 20 rows to

1913
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:45,480
enjoy the show.
You know, sometimes you're way

1914
01:43:45,480 --> 01:43:47,840
better off like a lot of the
stadium shows.

1915
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:51,000
I like to go further back into
the stands because they're

1916
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:54,600
creating a show that's taking up
the whole I Do too field, you

1917
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:56,240
know what I mean?
Behind the board.

1918
01:43:56,240 --> 01:43:58,880
Yeah, like Pink Floyd, I don't
want to be sitting in the 1st 10

1919
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:00,560
rows.
I'll give you another good

1920
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:02,200
example, Roger.
Waters.

1921
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:05,240
Did you see Roger Waters when
they broke down the wall

1922
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:08,120
throughout the show?
But I know about it.

1923
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:09,240
It's.
Unbelievable.

1924
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:12,800
I mean, and I've seen it twice
and my ex-wife was in the record

1925
01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:16,160
business and we were in like row
two or three the first time I

1926
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:18,240
saw it.
And I wanted to go back and

1927
01:44:18,240 --> 01:44:20,760
watch it either from front of
house or from further back.

1928
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:22,040
And I watched it from front of
house.

1929
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:25,240
I knew the people and.
It was so much.

1930
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:28,200
Better from front of house than
it was from the second or third

1931
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:31,160
row.
It just blew my mind.

1932
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:34,240
Like I got to see the whole
picture as opposed to this much

1933
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:37,160
of it right here in the center.
I knew people that wanted to be

1934
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:39,200
right up front watching Jerry
Garcia.

1935
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:42,480
I wanted to be further back
watching Candace Brightman.

1936
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:44,520
Yeah.
Yeah, very good point.

1937
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:47,080
Yeah, very good point.
Well, and the sphere is that.

1938
01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:49,600
On steroids.
This.

1939
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:51,560
Yeah.
It's sad what's happening with

1940
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:52,640
her right now.
Yeah.

1941
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:57,720
She was a huge influence and
yeah, when when I was designing

1942
01:44:57,720 --> 01:44:59,920
my design palette, it was
completely confident.

1943
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:05,920
Wow, there was many other ones.
Purples and greens.

1944
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:10,520
And so if you're a big dead
head, did you watch any of the

1945
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:15,480
video and stuff of the dead and
company and fish in the sphere?

1946
01:45:15,480 --> 01:45:18,280
I have not.
My God, go look at some of the.

1947
01:45:18,280 --> 01:45:21,680
Videos, I do want to watch it.
We'll just go to any of them.

1948
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:26,040
I I there's a combination of
just the cost and I haven't seen

1949
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:30,720
dead and Co to me, this is where
this is where I'm going to get

1950
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:32,400
in trouble.
This might be what we had out

1951
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:38,520
edit out is they're so they're
they're trying to be so close to

1952
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:44,400
the original.
The differences are really I I

1953
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:45,920
just I hear them.
Yeah.

1954
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:49,760
Whenever I put on the Grateful
Dead channel at SiriusXM and I

1955
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:52,760
hear a version that's just like,
wow, they they were a little off

1956
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:54,480
that night.
Well, they're forcing you to

1957
01:45:54,480 --> 01:45:56,200
compare.
Oh, it's dead in cone.

1958
01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:58,800
They're forcing you to compare.
It's just like the the new

1959
01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:01,920
singer in Journey versus Steve
Perry in Journey, you know?

1960
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,920
When I go see Phil, Phil will
play those songs, but he'll do

1961
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:08,120
them.
Like this is how I wanted to

1962
01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:09,720
play them all those years.
Yeah.

1963
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:11,760
And they're.
Yeah, it's familiar, but it's

1964
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:12,760
different.
Yeah.

1965
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:15,280
And so.
You know I was never it's.

1966
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:19,120
Like I did that and it's done
and I'm not gonna try and

1967
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:22,000
recapture it.
Yeah, I was never a dead guy,

1968
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:25,760
but I will tell you that
watching some of the sphere

1969
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:28,800
video of Dead and Co and also
fish, you know, obviously

1970
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:33,120
similar genre, but watching
video of both of those acts in

1971
01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:37,760
the sphere is just like, whoa.
Like, you know, everybody in

1972
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:41,120
there was on some sort of
hallucinogen, you know, while

1973
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:44,320
they were looking at these
visuals on the entire Dome and.

1974
01:46:44,320 --> 01:46:45,920
Stuff.
But you know, for those bands,

1975
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:48,960
the visual was always, you know,
I mean, there's a reason they

1976
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:52,280
call Chris Kurata CK5, right?
He's the 5th member of the band.

1977
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:55,080
Yeah, yeah.
Because the the lighting is so

1978
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:58,160
integral to what they're doing.
And it was the same thing with

1979
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:01,680
with the dead.
Yeah, that lighting was was such

1980
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:04,040
a part of it, even if you didn't
know it.

1981
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:06,720
Yeah, I remember leaving a show
once and talking about the

1982
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:09,200
lighting with some friends, you
know, from C Factor.

1983
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:12,160
Yeah.
And, and and like the the girl

1984
01:47:12,160 --> 01:47:14,480
that was with one of the guys
was like there was there special

1985
01:47:14,480 --> 01:47:16,120
lighting?
Yeah, I didn't.

1986
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:17,840
I was like, can we leave her
here?

1987
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:20,600
That's funny.
You know she's.

1988
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:22,640
Like what do you mean you didn't
notice the lighting?

1989
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:25,600
Yeah, yeah, like how did.
You you know, but she had this

1990
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:28,640
great way of running 2 cues
simultaneously.

1991
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:31,680
Yeah, yeah.
You know, a long slow fade and

1992
01:47:31,680 --> 01:47:35,760
then a ballyhoo which would
reveal what the Faye did.

1993
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:39,040
And it.
Was like, that's so cool.

1994
01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:41,120
Yeah, well it was like Pink
Floyd too.

1995
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:46,760
My ex-wife got us tickets for
division Bell pretty close up in

1996
01:47:46,760 --> 01:47:50,840
front of front of house.
And I walked back and watched it

1997
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:54,520
from the stands because there
was just too much going on to be

1998
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:58,240
standing that close, right?
And, and so I wanted to get back

1999
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:02,680
and get the whole picture and it
didn't sound as good back there

2000
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:06,240
because that was in the early
days of, of, you know, sound

2001
01:48:06,240 --> 01:48:08,240
systems weren't what they are
today.

2002
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:13,160
You know, versus like, I'm not a
big Metallica fan, but I, you

2003
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:16,600
know, their LD Rob Koenig is a
friend of mine and, and their

2004
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:20,000
production manager or creative
director now Dan Brown is a

2005
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:22,840
friend.
So I went and saw it in Edmonton

2006
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:24,520
up here because I'm in Canada
still.

2007
01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:28,480
And, you know, getting further
back and seeing what they're

2008
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:32,800
doing with that entire floor of
the stadium is just incredible.

2009
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:34,840
It's incredible.
Like you need to see the big

2010
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:36,880
picture.
You don't want to be necessarily

2011
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:39,680
right in front of the stage.
So yeah, it's interesting.

2012
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:44,840
So what are like when you're
looking at these projects?

2013
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:47,680
What are some of the biggest
challenges that you face when

2014
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:49,800
you're at the front end of a
project?

2015
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:52,960
You know, I mean, obviously
cost, the cost is always the

2016
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:57,520
biggest problem, right?
I usually the biggest problem is

2017
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:02,520
the amount of room that we have,
either because the site is

2018
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:06,320
constrained, you know, we're
trying to put a theater in a

2019
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:09,840
spot that, you know, we'd like
that spot to be a little bigger.

2020
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:14,120
Or, you know, the budget only
lets us have so many square

2021
01:49:14,120 --> 01:49:15,080
feet.
Yeah.

2022
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:20,360
Or wanting to put too many seats
in too small a place.

2023
01:49:23,080 --> 01:49:25,880
Those are usually some of the,
you know, early on.

2024
01:49:26,360 --> 01:49:30,480
Those are some of the biggest.
Changes, Yeah, Yeah.

2025
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:34,960
So when you get into things like
I know you did stuff with Cirque

2026
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:38,800
and I think both in Vegas and in
Asia as well, right, Yeah.

2027
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:45,040
So are they simpler or more
complicated like I?

2028
01:49:45,160 --> 01:49:47,520
First of all, they know what
they're doing, they know what

2029
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:52,000
they need, right?
In a way, the process is easier,

2030
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:55,160
but what we're doing is far more
complicated.

2031
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:56,280
Right.
Yeah.

2032
01:49:56,280 --> 01:49:59,040
You know, I mean, we were, you
know, I mean in Las Vegas we

2033
01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:02,280
were, we were driving the
industry forward, you know, the

2034
01:50:02,280 --> 01:50:05,920
zero fleet angle, which you
know, which got basically

2035
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:11,400
developed for them and then
turned into a product and the

2036
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:15,240
lifts that we were building for
them were just crazy.

2037
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:17,040
Yeah, I hate to ask really, what
is it?

2038
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:19,240
What is a zero fleet angle
winch?

2039
01:50:19,240 --> 01:50:24,520
So I have no idea what that is.
If you've got a drum right and

2040
01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:28,600
the cable is spooling off it,
it's gonna move.

2041
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,840
And so it starts coming down
over here, but then it drifts.

2042
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:35,680
Over here, right?
But so instead of the with the

2043
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:38,360
with the winches we were using
at the time, instead of the

2044
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:42,880
cable moving as it goes across
the drum, the drum would move so

2045
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:47,200
that the cable stays exactly in
the sense right?

2046
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,280
So the drum would move as the
cable played on.

2047
01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:52,680
Interesting, interesting.
So that you had really precise

2048
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:56,080
control of where that cable was
coming down, which when you're

2049
01:50:56,080 --> 01:50:59,440
doing all those acrobatics,
yeah, is really important.

2050
01:50:59,440 --> 01:51:03,280
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of
moving stuff with surf.

2051
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:04,680
There's a lot of automation,
right?

2052
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:08,640
A lot, a ton of automation, a
lot of the automation that's out

2053
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,200
in the in the industry now is
kind of developed.

2054
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:13,680
Yeah.
To handle the combination of

2055
01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:17,160
moving elements of, you know,
several lifts going at the same

2056
01:51:17,160 --> 01:51:21,920
time and machinery moving around
up here and acrobats going up

2057
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:25,120
and down and having to control
all of that and the emergency

2058
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:28,280
stops for all of that and.
Was it O that had all the

2059
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:30,360
fountains and stuff?
Though that was the water one

2060
01:51:30,360 --> 01:51:31,560
with the water, yeah, we didn't
do.

2061
01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:36,400
OI remember I got a tour of, of
under the, the stage, the, all

2062
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:39,400
the automation under the stage
and the, the fountains and all

2063
01:51:39,400 --> 01:51:42,560
that stuff from God rest his
soul.

2064
01:51:42,560 --> 01:51:47,280
Tim Brennan at the time, and I
think it was either right after

2065
01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:48,840
or right before the venue
opened.

2066
01:51:49,240 --> 01:51:54,200
And I was just blown away.
I had no idea all that stuff was

2067
01:51:54,200 --> 01:51:56,120
going on under the stage.
You know it's.

2068
01:51:56,120 --> 01:51:57,360
Just amazing.
Wild.

2069
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:59,080
Absolutely incredible.
Yeah.

2070
01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:04,120
So, yeah, I like you said, you
know, the, the they're the most

2071
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:07,800
challenging projects because of
how technical and how much stuff

2072
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:10,360
is going on.
But at least the client knows

2073
01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:11,800
exactly.
What they're doing and what they

2074
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:15,080
want, you know, we work hand in
hand with their designers and

2075
01:52:15,080 --> 01:52:17,680
you know, they have their own
designers and they have, you

2076
01:52:17,720 --> 01:52:19,280
know, they know what they need
to do.

2077
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:25,200
And so designing the stuff is a
really collaborative person

2078
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:29,400
process.
Easy for you to say you're.

2079
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:32,400
Gonna get that word right.
There's a really collaborative

2080
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:34,880
process with their people,
right?

2081
01:52:35,080 --> 01:52:38,480
And then, and then because
they're employees, they're

2082
01:52:38,480 --> 01:52:43,000
they're show people, their run
crew come on earlier and we

2083
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:48,360
really dial it in now for what
that actual show is going to be.

2084
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:51,600
Yeah, yeah.
Now I completely get that.

2085
01:52:51,600 --> 01:53:00,720
And yeah, so moving on from
that, so do you ever do work

2086
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:02,800
like when you're talking about
doing work for entertainment

2087
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:05,440
companies like a Cirque or
something, do you ever do

2088
01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:10,360
anything with like like Disney
or?

2089
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:12,160
You know is.
That all in.

2090
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:14,400
House.
Those companies tend those.

2091
01:53:14,440 --> 01:53:17,320
They tend to do most of their
stuff in house.

2092
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:19,560
I see.
You know, occasionally if

2093
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:23,960
they're doing a theater, you
know, we may get involved in

2094
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:26,080
some respect.
Yeah.

2095
01:53:26,600 --> 01:53:30,520
But these days, your Disney's,
your Live Nations, Aegs, you

2096
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:33,520
know, I'd really love to do, you
know, get in the Live Nation

2097
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:35,520
and, and do all of that.
Was the other one I was going to

2098
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:37,760
ask is if you ever.
Get into them, they're concert

2099
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:39,040
venues.
Yeah, no kidding.

2100
01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:40,680
Hey.
We can do this for you, you

2101
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:42,040
know, you don't have to do this
yourself.

2102
01:53:42,040 --> 01:53:43,400
No kidding.
Yeah.

2103
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:45,160
You want to get this off your
books.

2104
01:53:45,920 --> 01:53:47,160
Yeah, no kidding.
We'll.

2105
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:50,920
Take care of all your theater
renovations or or new designs.

2106
01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:52,880
So is that just just another
firm like one of your

2107
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:55,840
competitors or do they have an
in house department?

2108
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:58,360
I think they have an in house
department that does it.

2109
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:04,000
I see so.
That's a big part of it is

2110
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:08,200
really, People don't necessarily
know that theater consultants

2111
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:10,160
exist.
Yeah.

2112
01:54:10,160 --> 01:54:12,880
You know, an architect builds a
building, stagehands put on a

2113
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:15,800
show, designers design it.
In the middle there.

2114
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:20,000
Making sure that that theater,
you know, that this building

2115
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:23,280
that an architect built works.
As a.

2116
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:28,400
Theater right is is the tricky
part right because you can

2117
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:29,680
design A great.
Building.

2118
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:35,000
But if the stage isn't the right
size or the fly tower is not the

2119
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:38,360
right height or any number of
reasons, you know, my college

2120
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:42,160
theatre at at Oberlin Hall
Auditorium was designed by

2121
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:47,000
Wallace Harrison, same architect
who designed the United Nations

2122
01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:49,920
General Assembly Building the
Egg in Albany.

2123
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:51,680
Wow.
Yeah.

2124
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:58,360
Also, another terrible theatre,
you know, and and he designed.

2125
01:54:58,360 --> 01:55:02,680
The same kind of slopey roof.
As as the the General Assembly

2126
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:07,160
building, but that meant that
our our grid was not twice the

2127
01:55:07,160 --> 01:55:12,080
height and then some of our
proscenium and we just kind of

2128
01:55:12,080 --> 01:55:14,200
like, yeah, well that stinks and
we got to trip.

2129
01:55:14,200 --> 01:55:15,800
Everything and so we.
Learned how to trip.

2130
01:55:15,800 --> 01:55:17,360
Things and that's the way it
goes.

2131
01:55:17,880 --> 01:55:20,560
And yeah, there's a big concrete
beam in the middle of our front

2132
01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:22,840
of house lighting position that
we would always hit our heads

2133
01:55:22,840 --> 01:55:25,720
on.
We just kind of took that for

2134
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:28,400
granted.
You know, the idea that there

2135
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:31,480
could have been someone who knew
what they knew, how theaters

2136
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:34,480
worked, who could have said no,
you know, you can still have

2137
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:37,840
that shape, but you need to
raise it up so that you get

2138
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:40,320
twice the height plus a couple
feet, right?

2139
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:42,480
Would have made a huge
difference, right?

2140
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:44,960
Yeah, yeah.
Well, what?

2141
01:55:44,960 --> 01:55:48,680
About like when you talk about.
Doing for example something.

2142
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:52,920
For for.
Cirque in in Macau or I think

2143
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:57,040
you did some work in Dubai, like
is that a lot harder when you're

2144
01:55:57,040 --> 01:56:01,200
dealing with obviously
completely different cultures,

2145
01:56:01,200 --> 01:56:03,400
different maybe ways of doing
things?

2146
01:56:03,400 --> 01:56:06,880
Maybe maybe they their bathrooms
have to be on the same side of

2147
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:08,760
the room due to religious
reasons.

2148
01:56:09,560 --> 01:56:13,320
Certainly the the first shows
the first the first.

2149
01:56:13,320 --> 01:56:17,520
Theaters in Macau, where they
had never built anything

2150
01:56:17,520 --> 01:56:21,920
remotely like these before, was
definitely challenging.

2151
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:25,120
Yeah.
You know, learning how to

2152
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:27,520
communicate with them, how to
get things done.

2153
01:56:28,840 --> 01:56:31,920
You know, if if in the US, the
background on the drawing

2154
01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:34,440
shifted and there was a, you
know, there was an outlet in the

2155
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:37,200
middle of a doorway, the
electrician would look at it and

2156
01:56:37,200 --> 01:56:40,880
go, oh, OK, well, I'm going to
put it, you know, 8 inches off

2157
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:42,880
the door like every other outlet
in the building.

2158
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:45,920
And I'll go back to the to the
trailer and markup that I moved

2159
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:47,600
that.
Oh Jesus, over there.

2160
01:56:47,600 --> 01:56:49,680
You come in in the morning and
there's a piece of unistrut

2161
01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:51,160
across the doorway with.
The outlet.

2162
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:55,760
Because that's where the drawing
said it's supposed to go, you

2163
01:56:55,760 --> 01:56:58,920
know.
So like that, you know, that

2164
01:56:58,920 --> 01:57:01,920
that sort of very top down
someone said it should be there,

2165
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:03,560
therefore it should be there
without any.

2166
01:57:04,480 --> 01:57:07,040
Yeah, You know, maybe I should.
Well, you just got to deal with

2167
01:57:07,120 --> 01:57:11,120
it really, you know.
That was frustrating, the speed

2168
01:57:11,120 --> 01:57:13,280
at which they could.
Both make mistakes and correct

2169
01:57:13,280 --> 01:57:16,360
them.
Yeah, was was pretty remarkable.

2170
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:18,440
You know you'd come in in the
morning.

2171
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:20,640
And that.
Wall would be 4 inches to the

2172
01:57:20,640 --> 01:57:23,920
left of where it was supposed to
be and it's walls 4 inches to

2173
01:57:23,920 --> 01:57:25,560
the left.
By the time you came back from

2174
01:57:25,560 --> 01:57:30,080
lunch, it was rebuilt in the
right place, you know, Still

2175
01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:33,200
probably a little WAVY, but.
It was built there.

2176
01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:36,320
So, you know, there, there were
challenges, there were, there

2177
01:57:36,320 --> 01:57:40,000
was, you know, there's some
differences.

2178
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:45,800
The first night I was on stage
there around 10 O clock at

2179
01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:51,400
night, four people in full, not
hazmat suits, but you know,

2180
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:54,360
coveralls walked out.
There was, there was 4 catwalks,

2181
01:57:55,200 --> 01:57:57,560
it was 100 feet tall.
There was there was 4 levels of

2182
01:57:57,560 --> 01:58:00,200
catwalks.
And they start walking across

2183
01:58:00,200 --> 01:58:04,800
the group, across the catwalk
with push brooms pushing

2184
01:58:05,040 --> 01:58:07,520
everything that had built up
during construction.

2185
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:10,680
On that catwalk.
All day long pieces of

2186
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:14,240
sheetrock, pieces of fiberglass
insulation.

2187
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:17,560
You know, water bottles.
Broken drill bits.

2188
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:21,320
Whatever, you know, snips of
whatever's on and they were just

2189
01:58:21,320 --> 01:58:27,600
pushing them off, creating this
waterfall of debris cascading

2190
01:58:27,600 --> 01:58:31,760
down from these 4 catwalks.
Wow, that's fascinating.

2191
01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:35,600
And then the stuff hits the deck
and you know, the cloud starts

2192
01:58:35,600 --> 01:58:39,680
rolling towards you and you get,
you know, it's like, it's like

2193
01:58:39,680 --> 01:58:41,560
the disaster movie where you see
the.

2194
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:43,560
Thing coming, but you're.
Kind of frozen.

2195
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:45,640
You can't believe what you're
seeing.

2196
01:58:46,960 --> 01:58:49,600
This toxic cloud is just rolling
towards me.

2197
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:51,560
I got to get out.
Of here.

2198
01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:54,080
I'm going to be breathing that
in a second.

2199
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:56,000
Wow.
Yeah.

2200
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:57,240
Really.
You know.

2201
01:58:57,240 --> 01:58:59,360
Wow, you know, and.
Then the doll's on the.

2202
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:02,400
Stage and they let let the dust
settle and then they sweep it up

2203
01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:06,480
and oh Jesus, but in the museum
got to be a better way.

2204
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:10,240
Yeah, you.
Think you know so, And then I've

2205
01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:12,600
come.
Back from a trip there.

2206
01:59:12,720 --> 01:59:14,680
And I'm on a job.
Site in the US.

2207
01:59:15,640 --> 01:59:18,960
Walking around with the foreman
and he sees a piece of.

2208
01:59:18,960 --> 01:59:21,440
Sheetrock this.
Big left on the floor where they

2209
01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:24,520
were just cutting a hole and he
kicks it down the hall going.

2210
01:59:24,520 --> 01:59:29,000
This place is filthy I got to
talk to these guys and I'm just

2211
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:32,240
like, oh man, you have no idea.
That's funny.

2212
01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:34,200
Yeah, that's funny.
So.

2213
01:59:34,200 --> 01:59:37,800
Yeah, So somewhere in your.
Notes you you mentioned that the

2214
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:38,960
entertainment.
Business.

2215
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:42,800
Provided you a daughter.
How did what's that story?

2216
01:59:42,800 --> 01:59:45,040
Well, it didn't provide Well, I
guess it did provide me a

2217
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:46,760
daughter.
Tom Neville, who's now our

2218
01:59:46,760 --> 01:59:49,920
president, kept.
Telling me you need to, you

2219
01:59:49,920 --> 01:59:52,120
can't work all the time.
You should get a family and have

2220
01:59:52,120 --> 01:59:54,720
some work life balance.
Get a family, get a family.

2221
01:59:54,720 --> 01:59:57,360
That was that was one of the
reasons I got stuck in.

2222
01:59:57,360 --> 01:59:58,720
Macau.
I went to Macau.

2223
01:59:58,720 --> 01:59:59,880
For three.
Days to do a.

2224
01:59:59,880 --> 02:00:02,800
Lighting check out.
They were nowhere near ready.

2225
02:00:03,320 --> 02:00:06,560
But it's not like you fly to Las
Vegas to do a check out and

2226
02:00:06,560 --> 02:00:08,360
they're not ready.
So you get on the next plane

2227
02:00:08,360 --> 02:00:10,360
home, you know, go all the way
to Hong Kong.

2228
02:00:10,360 --> 02:00:12,080
When's it going to be done?
3 days.

2229
02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:14,720
All right, well, I'll keep an
eye on what you're doing.

2230
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:16,600
And in three days we'll check it
out.

2231
02:00:16,600 --> 02:00:18,560
Well, three days goes by.
They're nowhere.

2232
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:20,520
They're still, they haven't done
anything.

2233
02:00:21,320 --> 02:00:23,080
Three days.
Three days.

2234
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:24,800
Three days.
All right, well, you're here.

2235
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:26,720
Let's check out the lift.
Let's do this.

2236
02:00:26,720 --> 02:00:29,520
Let's do this other stuff.
Get stuck there for a month.

2237
02:00:30,360 --> 02:00:33,080
Thanksgiving comes along.
I got to go home.

2238
02:00:33,080 --> 02:00:35,200
I got family.
I've got to go home and get to

2239
02:00:35,200 --> 02:00:36,840
my family.
I've got to go home and get to

2240
02:00:36,840 --> 02:00:42,000
my family.
Yeah, I guess I'm staying, Yeah.

2241
02:00:42,240 --> 02:00:44,120
Wow.
I'll get a Turkey.

2242
02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:45,680
Sandwich.
Oh no.

2243
02:00:47,400 --> 02:00:48,880
You know.
So we came home, and then

2244
02:00:48,880 --> 02:00:50,600
Christmas.
Rolled around and you know I.

2245
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:52,600
Got to go home for Christmas.
I got to go home for Christmas,

2246
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:53,640
I said.
I got to get one of these

2247
02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:57,000
families.
Everyone laughed.

2248
02:00:57,000 --> 02:01:00,400
And you know, I did.
No, but I think.

2249
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:02,520
What I was talking about was how
my.

2250
02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:05,760
My oldest daughter.
Decided to become a helicopter

2251
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:08,400
pilot.
Really.

2252
02:01:08,480 --> 02:01:09,600
Why?
Really right?

2253
02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:10,440
Why?
And.

2254
02:01:12,120 --> 02:01:13,640
And so well.
She want.

2255
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:16,520
When she was learning to drive,
she said she wanted to get AVW

2256
02:01:16,680 --> 02:01:21,200
bus and I said cool, you know,
your kid wants to get where that

2257
02:01:21,200 --> 02:01:22,520
culture came.
From that.

2258
02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:27,000
Can't go above 65, yeah.
You know, I'm cool with that.

2259
02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:31,720
Yeah, but wannabe surfer girl
whose?

2260
02:01:31,720 --> 02:01:33,160
VW.
Bus breaks down and.

2261
02:01:33,160 --> 02:01:37,880
She has to call AAA is a poser
wannabe surfer girl whose VW bus

2262
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:41,840
breaks down and she hops out and
wrenches on it is a badass.

2263
02:01:42,280 --> 02:01:45,080
So if you want AVW bus you need
to take auto shop.

2264
02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:49,560
So she took auto shop and she
took it the same.

2265
02:01:49,560 --> 02:01:54,840
Semester she was taking physics.
And she was fascinated because

2266
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:57,200
on the one hand, she got to.
See the theory of how these

2267
02:01:57,200 --> 02:01:59,240
things work.
But then she went to the other

2268
02:01:59,240 --> 02:02:03,160
class and saw the practical
application and she got

2269
02:02:03,160 --> 02:02:06,520
fascinated by that and she
wanted to get an internship in a

2270
02:02:06,520 --> 02:02:09,720
garage.
She had to do an internship

2271
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:11,840
every in garage.
She called up, said oh.

2272
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:14,200
Yeah, we'd be happy to.
Put you out with the ladies in

2273
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:16,960
customer service or in the parts
department.

2274
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:19,240
And she said, no, no, no, I
want, I want a wrench.

2275
02:02:19,240 --> 02:02:23,520
And they said, Oh, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

2276
02:02:25,320 --> 02:02:27,120
That's partially because.
Well, partially.

2277
02:02:27,120 --> 02:02:29,080
Because she was 17.
Yeah.

2278
02:02:29,400 --> 02:02:31,120
Partially because she was a
girl, yeah.

2279
02:02:33,400 --> 02:02:36,360
So.
She found an internship with the

2280
02:02:36,400 --> 02:02:40,760
air museum at our local airport.
OK, we have an air museum.

2281
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:43,400
And they said, hey, we don't
care that you're a girl.

2282
02:02:43,440 --> 02:02:45,480
And we don't.
Care that you're 17, you know,

2283
02:02:45,480 --> 02:02:48,360
we're a private place.
We just get, we just fix up

2284
02:02:48,360 --> 02:02:50,560
these planes to get them ready
for display.

2285
02:02:51,000 --> 02:02:53,440
Some of them, we fix them up so
they can be flown in the air.

2286
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:55,600
Shell, come on over.
Yeah.

2287
02:02:56,120 --> 02:02:58,160
So she started doing that.
She had a good time.

2288
02:02:58,200 --> 02:02:59,960
She's meeting people at the
airport.

2289
02:03:02,160 --> 02:03:04,560
So they're asking, you know,
Hey, you want to try?

2290
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:07,920
Flying a plane.
Yeah, sure, why not?

2291
02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:09,880
Yeah.
Flew a plane, she said.

2292
02:03:09,920 --> 02:03:10,920
I really.
Like this is.

2293
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:12,320
Cool, I want to learn how to
fly.

2294
02:03:12,320 --> 02:03:15,000
A plane.
Started learning how to fly

2295
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:18,560
fixed wing aircraft, yeah.
Then someone else said you want

2296
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:22,080
to try to fly a helicopter.
Yeah, sure.

2297
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:23,560
Yeah, right.
Of course.

2298
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:26,560
Yeah, she.
Got in that and it was like, oh,

2299
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:30,040
it was like me reading.
The lighting book, you know,

2300
02:03:30,040 --> 02:03:31,040
Yeah.
Oh, she.

2301
02:03:31,040 --> 02:03:34,080
Found her calling.
This is it, yeah, Yeah.

2302
02:03:35,120 --> 02:03:36,640
And.
It was during COVID.

2303
02:03:39,200 --> 02:03:41,360
But by.
Then she had gotten hired by one

2304
02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:45,360
of the corporate, you know,
airfields, one of the corporate

2305
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:50,720
centers at the small airport.
Yeah, doing customer service,

2306
02:03:50,720 --> 02:03:53,080
but also, you know, filling fuel
requests.

2307
02:03:53,080 --> 02:03:55,200
And doing runway.
Stuff for them and everything

2308
02:03:55,200 --> 02:03:57,040
and and learning all there was
to learn about.

2309
02:03:57,280 --> 02:03:59,560
Yeah, yeah.
You know, a real job, you know,

2310
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:02,280
and it was during she graduated.
High school.

2311
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:04,520
She was a a COVID High School
graduate.

2312
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:07,080
Yeah.
And she said I'm not going to go

2313
02:04:07,080 --> 02:04:09,720
to college and pay all this
money.

2314
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:12,000
And be stuck.
In my dorm room for three weeks

2315
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:13,240
at a time.
This is stupid.

2316
02:04:13,240 --> 02:04:16,200
And I've got this real job.
I'm pulling down money, Yeah,

2317
02:04:17,040 --> 02:04:19,240
that I'm using to pay for my
flight lessons, yeah.

2318
02:04:20,120 --> 02:04:22,920
So I'm going to get my.
Pilot's license, yeah.

2319
02:04:23,320 --> 02:04:27,000
She got her pilot's license.
And then she said, well, now I'm

2320
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:30,520
going to take another year and
I'm going to get my commercial

2321
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:31,440
license.
Yeah.

2322
02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:33,320
OK.
You know, like.

2323
02:04:33,560 --> 02:04:36,360
Go for it.
And.

2324
02:04:36,440 --> 02:04:38,400
And so she did that, yeah.
And.

2325
02:04:39,080 --> 02:04:40,880
You know what it's.
Absolutely fascinating.

2326
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:44,800
And so now she's now, she went
to college, she's studying

2327
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:48,040
engineering, she wants to help
design.

2328
02:04:48,040 --> 02:04:49,120
Better.
Helicopters.

2329
02:04:49,640 --> 02:04:52,000
Wow.
Jeez, that's crazy.

2330
02:04:52,320 --> 02:04:55,560
That's what she wants to do.
And so when we were looking at.

2331
02:04:55,560 --> 02:04:59,800
Colleges we, we were up in
Vermont, we were doing a New

2332
02:04:59,800 --> 02:05:01,880
England tour and so.
We went and we.

2333
02:05:01,880 --> 02:05:04,640
Had dinner with Jason Osterman,
who I've known for a long time.

2334
02:05:04,640 --> 02:05:07,640
When he was with Altman, he was
originally a consultant.

2335
02:05:07,640 --> 02:05:11,240
Yeah, he was with Altman and
then he was with SGM, so we went

2336
02:05:11,240 --> 02:05:12,640
and had dinner with him.
So he met.

2337
02:05:12,640 --> 02:05:18,800
Her.
And a few months later, before

2338
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:22,480
school starts, he calls her.
Up Hey, I was on the flight down

2339
02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:26,520
to.
You know, from Burlington to JFK

2340
02:05:27,760 --> 02:05:29,400
and was sitting next to this guy
and he gets her.

2341
02:05:29,400 --> 02:05:30,600
What do you do?
What do you do?

2342
02:05:30,600 --> 02:05:32,280
He says.
I'm starting up a a.

2343
02:05:32,320 --> 02:05:36,280
Helicopter fleet management
company in whatever the next

2344
02:05:36,280 --> 02:05:39,400
town to Middlebury is.
Yeah, so he says.

2345
02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:44,160
Well, I've, I've got a girl for
you and he calls us and says

2346
02:05:44,160 --> 02:05:45,920
I've got, you know, you should
call this guy.

2347
02:05:47,080 --> 02:05:49,880
So Alex calls him and talks to
him for like half an hour.

2348
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:52,560
And he says.
You're hired.

2349
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:55,200
He starts sending all these.
Books and stuff to.

2350
02:05:55,200 --> 02:05:57,480
Read before she gets there and
now she's working.

2351
02:05:57,480 --> 02:06:01,240
For him doing.
Writing, writing the software

2352
02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:05,440
that takes the data from all the
different helicopters that

2353
02:06:05,440 --> 02:06:08,600
they've got that they're
managing all over the country.

2354
02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:13,040
And so like if one of them puts
too much thrust on a rotor, they

2355
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:15,960
get an alert and they can say,
hey, send that one in for

2356
02:06:15,960 --> 02:06:17,760
maintenance.
Interesting.

2357
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:19,480
She's writing the software to
do.

2358
02:06:19,480 --> 02:06:21,160
That's so cool.
You know what?

2359
02:06:21,160 --> 02:06:23,880
Though it's crazy.
Good for her, yeah.

2360
02:06:24,200 --> 02:06:30,880
And good for you as parents to
allow her to go find herself

2361
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:33,720
again and then decide to go back
to college.

2362
02:06:33,720 --> 02:06:36,280
No, but you know, it's like my.
Son race car.

2363
02:06:36,280 --> 02:06:41,240
Driver, you know, I gave him, I
never went to college, so I gave

2364
02:06:41,240 --> 02:06:46,520
him AI created a college fund
right when he was born and he

2365
02:06:46,520 --> 02:06:48,960
had all this money in this
college fund and it was like,

2366
02:06:48,960 --> 02:06:51,480
hey, you know, you can go to
college if you want.

2367
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:54,160
And he said, if it's OK with
you, you know, I really kind of

2368
02:06:54,160 --> 02:06:56,840
want to find my way.
And he's like his dad.

2369
02:06:56,840 --> 02:06:59,760
He's very entrepreneurial
thinking and, and plus he's a

2370
02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:02,800
race car driver.
And so he ain't going to

2371
02:07:02,800 --> 02:07:04,480
college.
You know, there's just no way

2372
02:07:04,480 --> 02:07:06,760
he's going to go to college.
And I'm totally OK with that.

2373
02:07:06,760 --> 02:07:08,920
It's, it's, you know, whatever
suits him.

2374
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:11,800
And maybe someday, like your
daughter, he'll go back to

2375
02:07:11,800 --> 02:07:15,280
college because it'll benefit
the new thing that he found.

2376
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:19,200
And, you know, I know a lot of
race car drivers who go back to

2377
02:07:19,200 --> 02:07:25,680
college to become, to take
racing engineering and oh,

2378
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:27,360
what's his name?
I don't know.

2379
02:07:29,480 --> 02:07:32,040
Oh man, he he was an engineer.
He would always.

2380
02:07:32,040 --> 02:07:33,920
He would always get.
He would always.

2381
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:38,520
Get the Pope in qualifying.
Yeah, but couldn't win the race.

2382
02:07:39,040 --> 02:07:40,560
Oh, really?
Yeah.

2383
02:07:40,560 --> 02:07:41,960
So.
I know a lot of drivers.

2384
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:44,720
Because he's got an engineering.
Degree, he can go fast.

2385
02:07:45,680 --> 02:07:47,920
In qualifying, but he can't race
well.

2386
02:07:47,920 --> 02:07:51,280
Well, most people who are really
smart don't become.

2387
02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:54,280
Race car drivers.
You know it and and I'm not

2388
02:07:54,280 --> 02:07:57,240
putting down my son.
He's a pretty smart kid, but The

2389
02:07:57,240 --> 02:08:00,800
thing is they have to have a bit
of a screw loose to to do what

2390
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:04,080
they do.
And, and if you're too much of

2391
02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:06,520
an engineer, you know all of the
things that can go.

2392
02:08:06,520 --> 02:08:08,360
Wrong and that.
Can slow you down.

2393
02:08:08,600 --> 02:08:10,360
That can really slow you down,
you know?

2394
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:14,920
So I was, I was at LDI and
talking with Kara O'Grady, who I

2395
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:16,600
worked with at.
PRG Yeah.

2396
02:08:16,760 --> 02:08:17,960
And then, you know, what are you
what?

2397
02:08:18,000 --> 02:08:19,400
What what is your daughter
doing?

2398
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:21,560
Oh, she's at college
helicopters.

2399
02:08:21,760 --> 02:08:25,280
And Kara says 01 of my really
good friends is getting ready to

2400
02:08:25,280 --> 02:08:29,040
retire.
She's the she's the program

2401
02:08:29,040 --> 02:08:31,440
manager for the Chinook program
at Boeing.

2402
02:08:32,080 --> 02:08:34,520
Jesus, we should have her talk
to Alex.

2403
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:38,680
Oh, my goodness.
She talked with Alex for like an

2404
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:41,680
hour and. 1/2.
You know, just.

2405
02:08:41,680 --> 02:08:43,400
Say, keep doing what you're
doing.

2406
02:08:43,400 --> 02:08:46,440
You are perfect.
I'll hire you in an instant

2407
02:08:46,440 --> 02:08:48,000
already.
You know, she's saying I'm

2408
02:08:48,000 --> 02:08:49,560
doing, you know, human.
Machine.

2409
02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:53,680
Interface stuff, I'm going to
get the instructor certificate.

2410
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,120
That's wild.
You get that instructor

2411
02:08:56,120 --> 02:08:59,200
certificate, you will leapfrog
people who come out with

2412
02:08:59,760 --> 02:09:03,120
master's degrees.
Yeah, that is a real practical

2413
02:09:03,120 --> 02:09:07,600
application, not just math.
So, you know, as we say, we show

2414
02:09:07,720 --> 02:09:10,680
her two biggest.
Contacts.

2415
02:09:11,760 --> 02:09:13,960
Came through your industry.
To.

2416
02:09:14,120 --> 02:09:17,320
Design better helicopters.
Have come from the theatrical

2417
02:09:17,320 --> 02:09:18,400
lighting, isn't that.
Crazy.

2418
02:09:18,720 --> 02:09:21,680
Yeah, it's crazy.
Our tentacles reach very far.

2419
02:09:21,680 --> 02:09:22,960
We.
We, we, we.

2420
02:09:23,280 --> 02:09:24,360
That's right.
Yeah, they may be.

2421
02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:26,240
They may be deep, but they
spread.

2422
02:09:26,280 --> 02:09:28,120
Wide.
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

2423
02:09:28,600 --> 02:09:31,280
Well, Howard, I, I'm having.
A blast, but I got to go.

2424
02:09:31,880 --> 02:09:33,920
OK, I I just backed up a
meeting.

2425
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:35,920
I was texting.
I couldn't see if you you saw,

2426
02:09:35,920 --> 02:09:38,480
but I was texting and I just
backed up a meeting.

2427
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:41,800
But I mean I could talk to you
for two more hours.

2428
02:09:42,040 --> 02:09:44,720
You know we're do another one.
I'd be more than happy your

2429
02:09:44,720 --> 02:09:48,080
knowledge of of how a theater.
Is put together.

2430
02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:51,240
Is is.
So valuable and so interesting

2431
02:09:51,240 --> 02:09:52,920
to me.
So yeah, yeah, I'd love to do

2432
02:09:52,920 --> 02:09:55,880
another one one day.
And I would say to anybody

2433
02:09:55,880 --> 02:09:59,440
listening, you know, speak up
whenever.

2434
02:09:59,440 --> 02:10:02,040
I get lighting.
I go to LDI or I go somewhere

2435
02:10:02,040 --> 02:10:03,320
else.
I have dinner with lighting

2436
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:06,240
designers.
I say what is one thing that

2437
02:10:06,240 --> 02:10:09,040
would make your day better?
You know, if you rolled into a

2438
02:10:09,040 --> 02:10:13,360
place, what is one thing?
And I was at dinner with a

2439
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:17,480
couple people a few weeks ago
and all four of them said a Bank

2440
02:10:17,480 --> 02:10:21,760
of seats for center 7th row that
we can just pull out.

2441
02:10:22,880 --> 02:10:26,120
Not that you need a crew of six
guys to take half a day out of

2442
02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:29,640
my load in, but just a bunch of
seats with power underneath that

2443
02:10:29,640 --> 02:10:32,760
I can pull out.
OK, done.

2444
02:10:33,120 --> 02:10:35,880
Yeah, you know the next one.
Will have that we can we can do

2445
02:10:35,880 --> 02:10:37,760
that so.
If there is something that

2446
02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:40,400
somebody says, you know, I've
wondered why they don't have one

2447
02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:42,040
of these or why they don't do
this.

2448
02:10:42,040 --> 02:10:44,080
Yeah, right.
I bought LinkedIn.

2449
02:10:44,080 --> 02:10:46,760
You can look up my firm.
Let me know.

2450
02:10:46,960 --> 02:10:47,720
Yeah.
You know, that's.

2451
02:10:47,840 --> 02:10:50,320
I want to hear what the people
who are out working.

2452
02:10:50,320 --> 02:10:52,200
That's a really good point.
You know what?

2453
02:10:52,200 --> 02:10:56,240
And even if you've done work.
On shows or on tour or in

2454
02:10:56,240 --> 02:10:59,800
theaters or whatever, it evolves
and it changes.

2455
02:10:59,800 --> 02:11:02,520
So like, you don't know
everything anymore because you

2456
02:11:02,520 --> 02:11:04,040
don't work in that field
mission.

2457
02:11:04,040 --> 02:11:07,040
We never do this right.
Still putting 400 amps over

2458
02:11:07,040 --> 02:11:07,480
here.
We're not.

2459
02:11:07,480 --> 02:11:09,400
Pulling 400 amps anymore?
Yeah.

2460
02:11:09,400 --> 02:11:12,880
You know, we'd love, we'd love
to know that stuff well.

2461
02:11:12,880 --> 02:11:15,840
So I mean, here's a.
Perfect example like talk

2462
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:18,280
talking to a friend of mine who
designs bicycles.

2463
02:11:18,280 --> 02:11:21,360
A few days ago and he said one
of the biggest things that you

2464
02:11:21,360 --> 02:11:25,840
have to design on E bikes these
days is they have to have USB

2465
02:11:25,840 --> 02:11:28,520
plugs on them.
And I'm like, well, of course

2466
02:11:28,520 --> 02:11:31,080
they do, you know, like that
makes perfect sense.

2467
02:11:31,080 --> 02:11:34,960
But unless you were a person out
using E bikes, you might not

2468
02:11:34,960 --> 02:11:38,320
think of that right away.
So the practical things that

2469
02:11:38,320 --> 02:11:41,240
people who use these things, you
know, so maybe the, you know,

2470
02:11:41,240 --> 02:11:43,680
the regular receptacles in the
booth, we should say make sure

2471
02:11:43,680 --> 02:11:45,720
you put in the.
Receptacles that also have USB

2472
02:11:45,720 --> 02:11:46,520
ports.
Yeah.

2473
02:11:46,600 --> 02:11:48,200
Yeah, that might be a thing.
I don't know.

2474
02:11:48,280 --> 02:11:49,640
Right.
Well, then guess what?

2475
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:51,600
A friend on tour.
Called me up the other.

2476
02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:54,240
Day during the.
Load in and.

2477
02:11:54,240 --> 02:12:00,080
He said who designs the water
faucets in the dressing rooms?

2478
02:12:00,080 --> 02:12:03,640
Is that you?
And I said no, usually that's

2479
02:12:03,640 --> 02:12:04,760
the architect.
Why?

2480
02:12:04,760 --> 02:12:06,480
He said because they.
Put in these ones with the.

2481
02:12:06,480 --> 02:12:10,480
Sensor underneath and the guy's
trying to shave and the thing

2482
02:12:10,480 --> 02:12:13,000
keeps turning off and it's
driving him nuts.

2483
02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:19,760
That's a really good point.
You know you're trying to shave

2484
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:21,720
or.
You're trying to take off makeup

2485
02:12:21,840 --> 02:12:24,920
and this thing only turns on for
three seconds and gives you cold

2486
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:27,040
water.
Yeah.

2487
02:12:27,080 --> 02:12:29,720
From now on I'm gonna tell the
architect we want regular.

2488
02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:32,120
Water faucets in the.
Dressing room so people can take

2489
02:12:32,120 --> 02:12:34,520
off their makeup.
So common sense and simple.

2490
02:12:34,520 --> 02:12:37,320
Yeah, but you don't know unless
you're trying to take off.

2491
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:39,600
Makeup in in that bathroom,
right?

2492
02:12:39,600 --> 02:12:41,840
I just like walking through the
lobby bathrooms in the

2493
02:12:41,840 --> 02:12:44,360
construction vest because the
the reflective.

2494
02:12:44,360 --> 02:12:49,160
Stripe hits all those sensors
and so they go, well, you walk

2495
02:12:49,160 --> 02:12:51,000
down there.
That's funny one, I mean.

2496
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:54,000
It's it's a really, really good.
Point that you make.

2497
02:12:54,000 --> 02:12:57,600
Because in our industry, you're
in one of the very few positions

2498
02:12:57,600 --> 02:13:01,000
where you really do want input
from other people want, you

2499
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:04,040
know, like lighting designers
don't want you coming up to them

2500
02:13:04,040 --> 02:13:05,160
and saying, wouldn't it have
been?

2501
02:13:05,160 --> 02:13:08,080
Better.
If you No, no, no, no, no.

2502
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:10,360
Tell us how to make these
theaters better, please.

2503
02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:12,520
Yeah, We want to make them
better.

2504
02:13:12,520 --> 02:13:13,680
We.
Want your input?

2505
02:13:13,920 --> 02:13:15,960
And we're the guys who can make
it happen.

2506
02:13:15,960 --> 02:13:18,360
Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, if you think there

2507
02:13:18,360 --> 02:13:20,560
should be something, tell us and
maybe we can put.

2508
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:23,200
It in there, yeah.
So how's the best way to reach

2509
02:13:23,200 --> 02:13:25,680
you to to get information like
that to you through?

2510
02:13:25,680 --> 02:13:28,760
LinkedIn or something?
Yeah, LinkedIn or my e-mail on

2511
02:13:28,760 --> 02:13:30,880
my company page.
Yeah, cool.

2512
02:13:31,400 --> 02:13:33,960
Yeah, awesome.
Well, Howard, I appreciate you

2513
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:34,800
doing this.
So much.

2514
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:37,520
It's all pretty clear.
It's either Howard Glickman or H

2515
02:13:37,520 --> 02:13:39,080
Glickman.
Yeah, it's cool.

2516
02:13:39,080 --> 02:13:40,880
Yeah.
I appreciate you doing it.

2517
02:13:40,880 --> 02:13:43,920
Thank you for taking the time
and anytime.

2518
02:13:43,920 --> 02:13:45,960
And hopefully, are you going to
be at LDI?

2519
02:13:46,800 --> 02:13:48,440
Yeah.
Well, maybe.

2520
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:50,240
Maybe we'll try and connect
while we're there.

2521
02:13:50,760 --> 02:13:51,880
Absolutely.
By the way, it's.

2522
02:13:51,880 --> 02:13:53,560
Going to be the first time I've
met Sarah.

2523
02:13:53,560 --> 02:13:55,480
She's going to be at LDI.
This year too.

2524
02:13:55,480 --> 02:13:58,840
So, yeah, that'll be fun.
Oh, great.

2525
02:13:58,840 --> 02:14:00,160
All right, Howard.
Thank you.

2526
02:14:00,280 --> 02:14:01,520
Terrific.
All right.