#266 - Chris Conti

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Wow, that was cool.
Just finished episode 266 with

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Chris Conte from PRG.
You know, fantastic guy, super

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smart guy, is part of a company
that's at a scale that is, you

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know, there's only three or four
of those companies in our

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industry.
And you know some of the things

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we talked about like they have
over 100,000 moving lights in

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stock.
They do 240 shows per day.

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Think about that, think about
the scale.

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And so he's sort of at the not
sort of, he's actually at the

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pinnacle of this company from a
technology standpoint.

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Very important gig, really nice
guy, really smart guy.

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Please listen to this podcast
and I hope you really like it

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and share it with your friends.
Click, like, click subscribe and

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share it with friends, please
and thank you.

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Enjoy.
Today's episode #266 is brought

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to you by Ultimate Support.
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Dash T-T today at
ultimatesupport.com to learn

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more.
And today's podcast is also

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brought to you by Gearsource.
Founded in 2002 with an

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ambitious mission to support
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sell gear globally.
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today.
Hello and again thanks for

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joining me today on Geezer Gear
episode #266.

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You might not see it, but I am
wearing my fancy Coffee Cult

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hoodie today and would like to
make a quick mention on Geezer's

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Grind Coffee Cults coffee blend
that was specially done for

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yours truly.
It's a combination of their Rd.

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Dog blend, which is a very dark
roast coffee, and they're

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medium.
And I was mixing those two beans

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in my house because the the Road
Dog was too strong for my

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girlfriend and the medium was
too light for me.

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And by mixing them together, we
kind of came up with the perfect

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flavor.
I think it's the best coffee

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I've ever drank.
I've had them shipping it to me

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up here in Canada as well, and I
hope you will order it.

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That is coffee cult.com with KS,
coffee with AK, cult with

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ak.com.
And if you just search for

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Geezers Grind, you can probably
just go to Google and search for

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Geezers Grind coffee and you'll
find that I think if you buy 2

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bags, you get free shipping.
They'll give you all kinds of

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discounts right on the site and
stuff.

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And most importantly, the
proceeds on Geezer's Grind go to

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Roby Backstage to help people in
our industry who need help.

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And so it's a really great cause
it's very cool of Coffee Cult to

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provide that service to our
industry and provide that

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support to our industry.
And it's great coffee.

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So you're doing good while
enjoying a really great coffee.

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So please, I know a lot of you
already do support Coffee Cult

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Geezers grind.
Those of you who don't, please

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try it.
If you hate it, I'll buy it from

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you.
How's that?

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Buy the bag.
If you don't like it, I'll buy

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it back from you because I use
it anyways.

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And by the way, I pay for it so
I don't get it for free.

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Anyways, a bunch of stuff going
on today and a really great

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guest.
Like usual, all of our guests

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are great, but some
announcements to make as well.

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So first and foremost, you may
have already seen our social

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media posts or you might have
even seen it announced on their

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own website.
But at LDI, we have launched a

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event, an event on December 9th,
which I believe is Monday from

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12 to one.
I have no idea how we're going

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to fit it into one hour, That's
bad planning.

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But 12 to one, it's a lunch
round table event basically

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called Dining with Dinosaurs.
And so it's brought to you by

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Geese of gear, Dining with
Dinosaurs.

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And what you're getting there is
really, we're going to have some

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of the industry's founders, four
fathers, 4 mothers, whatever you

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want to call it.
People who were there really

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from the beginning or very early
on in our industry and who

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really shaped our industry and
are so incredibly knowledge

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knowledgeable, have great
stories, similar people to who I

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have on the podcast on a weekly
basis, but very, very cool

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people, some of whom have
already been retired for as long

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as 10 years.
And it's going to be fun.

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It's going to be a blast.
So the basic format is going to

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be a lunch.
You get lunch with your ticket

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to this event.
By the way, we don't make any

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money off of this.
This isn't something that we're

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doing for profit.
We are doing this because we

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were asked to do it by a guest
who came up with the concept

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along with myself and we talked
through it.

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And next thing you know, I've
raised my hand and gotten

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involved in something else.
So we hope and from everything

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we're hearing in the excitement
that we've gotten in response to

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this already, we hope that this
will become a perennial event.

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It'll happen every single LDI
and we're pretty excited about

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it.
So it's going to be a lot of

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fun.
So again, it's Monday, December

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9th at noon and you need to sign
up, register for it at LDI show.

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And yeah, so the format really
is is a round table.

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We're going to have tables that
are themed, whether it's

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lighting or sound or video or
rigging or management.

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And at those tables will be two
or three dinosaurs and, and then

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up to 10 or 12 or 15 guests who
will be able to ask questions

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and listen to some incredible
stories and learn how things

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were done back in the day and
how things are different today

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and how we might bridge that gap
a little bit, bringing some of

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that knowledge forward.
And so I think it's going to be

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incredible.
I'm, I'm pinch me, I'm, I'm so

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lucky and, and happy to be
involved in such a cool event.

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So I'm looking forward to it.
I hope you are again dining with

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dinosaurs.
You can go sign up on

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ldishow.com.
And they are limiting the number

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of of participants.
I think it might be 150 people

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they're allowing.
And we've just announced it like

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within the past couple of weeks,
and they've already sold, I

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think I was told 50 seats
already.

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So yeah, it's going quickly.
And I don't know what the price

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is.
I think it's around 60 or

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$70.00.
It's probably included in a full

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conference pass.
But yeah, it's going to be fun

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and hurry.
Limited availability.

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Next bit of news, which is
equally exciting.

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So a very good friend of mine,
John Featherstone, is one of the

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founding partners of Light
Switch and reached out to me

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after hearing the 1st Leading
Ladies podcast.

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So Gears of Gear Leading Ladies,
which is run by my illustrious

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and wonderful producer Sarah.
And so we are recording one or

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two episodes a month of leading
ladies very much focused on the

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incredible women in this
industry.

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And and so she's got one massive
episode under her belt, which

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was very well received and very
successful and has the second

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one, I believe coming out the
first week of October and then

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there will be a third one in
October and so on.

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And so yeah, we appreciate all
of the response we've gotten

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from those things and from from
the announcement of having a

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women focused podcast and we're
pretty excited about it.

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So anyways, John Featherstone
from Light Switch reached out to

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me and said, I love what you
guys are doing.

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As you know, John is probably a
person who more than any other

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person has supported women in
our industry, supported the

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concept of adding more women
into our industry.

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He actually is the father of two
women in our industry.

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And so, you know, we were
extremely grateful and flattered

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when he reached out and said I
want to be the sponsor.

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So we are going to be
announcing, if we haven't

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already, by the time you've
heard this, we're going to be

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announcing Light Switch as the
exclusive sponsor of leading

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ladies.
And so that's pretty exciting

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and wonderful and we're
extremely grateful for humans as

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kind and amazing as John
Featherstone and his partners,

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of course, at Light Switched.
So with that said, today's guest

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is Mr. Chris Conte, the Chief
Innovative Officer at Production

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Resource Group.
Chris joined PRG in 2004 and has

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been instrumental on multiple
concert tours, TV shows,

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corporate events, trade shows
and special events.

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Some of his highlights include
Coldplay, Josh Groban, Fleetwood

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Mac, Guns and Roses, Michael
Jackson, The Rolling Stones, and

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Sir Elton John, and so, so many
more.

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Since 2004, you can only imagine
the number of shows he's been

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involved in.
In 2007, he became the Project

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Manager, Product Manager for PR,
GS, proprietary luminaires and

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the Series 400 system.
During his tenure as a product

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manager, Chris has been listed
as an inventor on 15 and

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counting US patents and has
continued to provide technical

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assistance and support on
multiple shows as well.

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In 2019, Chris became Chief
Innovative Officer for PRG and

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as CIO, Chris leads PRGPRG
innovation which brings into a

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single organization all of PR GS
global talent focused on product

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development.
Chris also continues to

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participate in some of PR GS
most ambitious projects

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productions.
Chris was last on this podcast

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Geezers of Gear in 2021.
So please join me and welcome

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00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,560
this awesome guest back to
Geezers of Gear.

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What's going on?
Not much.

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How are you?
Good to see you.

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Yeah, and you as well.
You look about exactly the same

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as last time I saw you.
Yeah.

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A little more Gray hair, I
think.

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Well, yeah, a little more.
Less Gray hair, you know?

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Yes, less hair, more of it's
Gray.

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Yeah, I'm with you on that one.
Well, you know what though?

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There's there's there is a
really downside alternate to

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getting older, you know, which
is not getting older and that's

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not good.
So we know way.

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Too many.
It's experience.

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It's just showing you know how
much experience I've had.

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Yeah, well, I have a lot of
experience, as you can tell.

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So.
Perfect.

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So, yeah, you're right about
that.

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You know what I mean?
It's funny because as the world

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keeps changing and like, I'm
kind of happy I was born when I,

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when I was, you know, I don't
know that I'd want to be 20

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today.
Like half of me going, wow, it'd

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be cool to be 20 today because
there's so many tools available

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to you and, you know, it's such
an incredible time to be young.

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But yeah, I, I like, especially
when you look at work, stuff

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like our industry, I like that I
was there at the beginning of

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moving lights and the beginning
of digital audio and the

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beginning of, you know, when
lighting consoles went from

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massive to like this big, you
know, And yeah, we saw all the

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cool innovations, the start of
cell phones, you know?

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Yeah, Well, it's interesting
this.

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I find it interesting, Like
things that we heard when moving

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likes came upon upon the scene.
I'm hearing a lot of the same

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chatter about, oh, moving to LED
or moving to, you know, some of

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00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,000
the virtual stuff that we've
done and you know, like what's

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old is new again.
Like, oh, I remember talking

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00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,760
about this or similar arguments
or similar issues when Yeah, you

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00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,160
know, well.
And I also remember when there

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were like a few moving light
companies, a few brands.

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00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,920
Well, I remember when there was
one brand.

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00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,520
But so do you.
You worked for that one brand,

226
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,640
Correct.
But but you know, when there

227
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,520
were just a few and now, like,
you know, I see.

228
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,560
What's this name that I keep
seeing on Facebook, B Topper or

229
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,320
B stopper or something?
Yeah.

230
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,160
That people actually seem to be
taking rather seriously, you

231
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,320
know, and I've always thought
that moving lights you can buy

232
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:46,240
on Amazon, maybe not so good,
you know, but it's interesting.

233
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,520
And, and again, like I say it
way too often on this podcast,

234
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,680
everything's good now.
Yeah, You know, the, the they've

235
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,600
become commoditized.
You know, moving lights are, you

236
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,760
know, they're a dozen different
manufacturers out there.

237
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,480
Many of them are made in the
same factory in China, in fact.

238
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:05,280
True.
Yeah.

239
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,800
You know and.
Well, there's two main

240
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,480
factories, 2 main two big ones,
you know, Acme and Golden.

241
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:11,600
Sea.
Golden Sea, yeah.

242
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,000
But yeah, there's I've.
Had other ones.

243
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:15,760
Oh yeah.
And I've, I've been very

244
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,320
fortunate and I've had an
opportunity.

245
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,920
I've actually visited those
factories.

246
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,760
I've been to China, yeah, as one
of some of the smaller ones.

247
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,120
And it's really fascinating,
yeah, to see.

248
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,840
So yeah, the the commoditization
has been a has been a you know,

249
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,600
some people would argue it's
been bad.

250
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,800
I think it's been good because I
think it's made the equipment

251
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,520
much more reliable.
And I think it's certainly the

252
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,000
shows haven't gotten any less
complex.

253
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,080
So more reliability that we can
get is makes it a lot easier to

254
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,040
load in these you're. 100%
right.

255
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,560
Yeah, I mean, and, and also
innovation gets to focus on

256
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,320
different things like, you know,
people who are looking to invent

257
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,280
new things.
It used to always be about

258
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,280
trying to make it more reliable,
trying to make it more bright,

259
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,480
trying to now it's moved away
from all of that stuff.

260
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,040
And I want to eventually get
into talking about AI because I

261
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,960
have some ideas about AI as it
relates to our industry and what

262
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,960
that might look like, the
direction that some people might

263
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,960
take.
But, but back on this

264
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,840
reliability thing, and I've said
it before on the podcast, is

265
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,280
that I was at Ayrton in, in
Paris.

266
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,280
And you know, I, I sat with one
of their engineers there and he

267
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,160
was showing me the inside of one
of their lights.

268
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,840
And I, you know, I, I am guilty
and, and stupid for saying this,

269
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,320
but I hadn't seen the inside of
a moving light in a very long

270
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,760
time because that's not my gig.
You know, it's not what I do,

271
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,320
but and so I would probably
worked for one of the

272
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,000
manufacturers last time I saw
the inside of a moving light.

273
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,280
So it had to be over 20 years
ago, which is crazy.

274
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,640
And so when they opened up one
of these Air 10 fixtures, I was

275
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,119
just like, how are you fitting
that much shit in a light that's

276
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,280
half the size of what they used
to be?

277
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,839
It's a lot, yeah.
And and then so I asked the

278
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,119
engineer, I said, So what
brakes?

279
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,240
And he's like, excuse me?
I said, what breaks?

280
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,520
And he says, I don't know what
you mean.

281
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,480
And and I'm like, well, let's
say I was going to a deserted

282
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,480
island with a generator and a
bunch of moving lights.

283
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,960
What's my parts package look
like?

284
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,760
And he goes, I don't really
understand the question.

285
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,320
I said, well, something's got a
break.

286
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,000
Like, you know, I'm on tour and
I need parts.

287
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,760
What, what are my most common
parts?

288
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,160
And he said, I don't know, maybe
one of these, maybe one of

289
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,480
these, but honestly, I don't
really know.

290
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,480
Like I it it's not we don't have
common failures.

291
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,800
No, I mean, it's, it's
remarkable the the, you know, I,

292
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,280
I used to take it for granted
that like, OK, 10% of my rig on

293
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,680
any given day would not be
working, whether it's like a

294
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,480
miss plug or something's broken,
right?

295
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,200
That is just not the case.
That's just, you know, the

296
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,720
lights are when something
breaks, it's, it's an odd

297
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,720
occurrence #1 number in, in more
often than not, it's because you

298
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,240
did something to it, like you
dropped it or something like

299
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,240
that.
And then on the rare occasion

300
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,200
where you have multiple
failures, OK, the, the part was

301
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,520
manufactured incorrectly or
there was an unseen something

302
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,360
that they hadn't accounted for
in testing.

303
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,920
And like, OK.
And all the manufacturers have

304
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,120
been really good about when we,
I, when, when at least on the

305
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:41,200
stuff that I've been involved
with where we've identified

306
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,000
like, OK, these blades are
burning up all the time.

307
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,760
Yeah.
OK, quick.

308
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,520
They're pretty quick to get a
fix out to us and get that

309
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,040
updated and stuff.
Yeah.

310
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,760
It's just just not there.
Is the reduction in problems due

311
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,600
to the reduction in heat?
Oh 100% yeah for sure.

312
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,920
But which is funny though,
because yes, it's reduction in

313
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:11,240
heat, but now we're seeing LED
levels, you know, pushing, you

314
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,880
know, you know, 18 hundred 1200
watts is 1200 watts, whether

315
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,160
it's arc decent or LED, it's the
same amount of heat.

316
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,520
Yeah, it's kicking a lot more
light out the front end, but

317
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,080
1200 watts of heat is 1200 watts
of heat.

318
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,520
Yeah.
So, so it's interesting that

319
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,280
we're seeing that creep up,
right.

320
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,080
The other side that we're seeing
is the lights are becoming much

321
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,520
more sealed.
You know, IP65 is the thing now.

322
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,040
So the the overall thermal level
has increased significantly

323
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,920
inside the fixtures.
Yeah, but to their credit, a lot

324
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,560
of manufacturers have done a
great job with thermal

325
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,520
management.
I mean, that's half the battle

326
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,600
on these lights is on the engine
and then on the internals as

327
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,120
well.
Yeah, yeah, it always has been.

328
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,720
I mean he has always been the
enemy of of a moving like guts.

329
00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:00,120
Speaking of IP65, what what's
the direction that PRG has taken

330
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,800
on that?
Like have you gone 100% IP rated

331
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,560
fixtures or 50% or?
So so due to our scale we would

332
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,560
love to have nothing but IP65
right?

333
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,640
But we own way too many lights
to to ever be able to.

334
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,040
I mean it would just cost an
insane amount of money to swap

335
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,560
everything out.
Yeah, yeah.

336
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,240
You know, I mean we, we own well
north of 100,000 automated.

337
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,680
Lights globally, That's insane.
That's such an insane number

338
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,320
when you think of it, yeah.
Yeah.

339
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,680
Well, you here's a, here's a
more insane number in that we're

340
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,840
currently we're doing 240 shows
a day globally.

341
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,640
Wow.
Yeah, yeah.

342
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,440
Wow, that is wild.
Yeah.

343
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,880
Think of that number of people.
Yeah, 240 shows a day.

344
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:46,880
A day.
So at any given point.

345
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,480
But when you start thinking
about OK, shows loading in,

346
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,640
shows moving, and shows loading
out, that number gets

347
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,600
exponentially.
Bigger insane.

348
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,560
Yeah, at the same time, right,
so. 100,000 Moving so Jesus.

349
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,760
Christ, it's ridiculous.
Yeah, we own a lot, yeah and

350
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,720
some of them are like, I mean we
own 1000 VL fives from like the

351
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,120
from the 90s, you know, so we've
got 30 old lights, but then we

352
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,000
have the latest and greatest
stuff as well.

353
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,080
So we.
Are all the VL fives converted

354
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:20,360
now to LED?
No, I've got a, we have 1000 of

355
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,520
them that are converted to LED
and then we have a bunch of

356
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,320
units that are still arc and
incandescent that are sitting on

357
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,240
the shelf.
Yeah, probably going to retire

358
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,480
those at some point here.
When when Dickinson stops using

359
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,600
them.
Yeah, they've mostly yes.

360
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,080
Yeah.
And to their credit, they've

361
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,320
actually moved to LED, which is
great.

362
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,080
Yeah, Yeah, I talked to him
about that.

363
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,400
He was on the podcast, I don't
know, four or five months ago

364
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,400
and we discussed it.
I mean, that guy alone, if you

365
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,720
could, if you could pin the
success of that fixture to one

366
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,080
person, he's got to be the
biggest, you know, 100% yeah.

367
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,280
Like every show.
He's probably using 500 plus VL

368
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,560
fives on it since the beginning
of time.

369
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,600
So, yeah, and I mean, and that
fixture, what that fixture does,

370
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,080
it doesn't do a lot.
So whenever I show our version

371
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,480
with the LED and even the
Verilites version, their

372
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,480
version, I'm like with our
version, I'm like, it's the

373
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,680
original one that we've upgraded
with an LED engine.

374
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,240
It doesn't zoom, it doesn't have
beam shaping.

375
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,400
It doesn't.
It's a VL five with an LED in

376
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,440
it.
That's yeah, it's a moving part

377
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,520
can like, you know.
Yeah, it does not have all these

378
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,560
whistles and bells for sure.
Which is fun.

379
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,200
It's brighter than the old
though, right?

380
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,760
Yeah.
Yeah, especially in color.

381
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,000
Yeah, so, but so back to your
original question though, you

382
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,480
know as far as IP65, we would
love to go to IP65, but that's

383
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,000
not practical.
So we try to buy IP65 when we

384
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,680
can.
There, there is a premium to an

385
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,640
IP65 light as opposed to a non
IP65 and that is a rental

386
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,320
economics like someone may not
may want the IP65 but they're

387
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,880
indoors and can't afford it.
So we'll we have non IP65

388
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,720
versions.
So for right now we for a while

389
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,160
there we were buying IP65 and
non IP65 to deal with that

390
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:13,160
difference in the economy.
But on the But the prices have

391
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,240
come down.
That's what I.

392
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,880
Was going to say the vector has
changed a lot now also on weight

393
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,840
and complexity.
You know how many screws you got

394
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,080
to take out to get the to get at
the guts of the of the light?

395
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,400
All of that has changed as we've
got more manufacturers committed

396
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,680
to producing IP65.
Fixtures I like, I like the IP65

397
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,560
thing, not only for outdoor use,
but for indoor use just because

398
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,920
of you don't have all the, you
know, haze and fog and stuff or

399
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:49,480
pyro dust getting on the inside.
It's where we struggle on the

400
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,600
IP65 side is just, you know,
testing and make sure that

401
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,800
they're maintaining their, you
know, their waterproofness,

402
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:58,880
shall we say.
Yeah.

403
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,760
And we have all the yeah, we
have all the equipment to do

404
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,720
that.
We're still trying to understand

405
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,240
when we have to do all that
testing and how often.

406
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,840
OK, if it fails the pressure
test, does that really mean it's

407
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,520
not no longer IP65?
No, not really.

408
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,880
So that's part of the thing that
we're still, we internally are

409
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,640
learning a little bit more about
what what it takes to service

410
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,400
this stuff.
And the other side of IP65 that

411
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,920
no manufacturer has gotten a
good hand on yet is if we want

412
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,160
to do custom gobos, it's it's a
pain in the ass to to with the

413
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,200
amount of screws and the gaskets
and stuff.

414
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,800
And yeah, you and you really
need to be using a torque

415
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,960
screwdriver so that you don't
over torque those screws that in

416
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,560
over compress the gasket and
stuff.

417
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,400
Yeah.
So it it's labor intensive for

418
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:52,840
us to do custom loads on IP65?
So how closely do you and I

419
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,920
guess your team work with
manufacturers on innovation

420
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,680
related?
Quite a bit because of our scale

421
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,160
and our size in the way our
budgeting cycles work.

422
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,760
If I see something new at LDI,
we've got a problem like by by

423
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,040
the time LDI gets there, we've
already done our budgets for the

424
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,440
next year and we're already
starting purchasing for the next

425
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,200
year.
Yeah.

426
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,600
So it's really important for us
to to get ahead of that.

427
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,680
So, you know, we're under
stringent Ndas with all the

428
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,000
majority manufacturers.
Yeah.

429
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,160
And we, we, we, we take that
really seriously.

430
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,840
You know, we do not.
We know if one manufacturer

431
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,800
tells us something, we do not
talk to another manufacturer

432
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,720
about it whatsoever.
Yeah, you couldn't cuz that

433
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,120
system would end, you know, at
that point.

434
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:42,040
Absolutely, yeah.
So we have a pretty good idea

435
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,400
what's coming.
Often times we see prototypes

436
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,600
before long before designers and
stuff.

437
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,080
Cool.
So what's coming?

438
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,160
I'm just, I didn't.
Yeah, Chris, I'm joking.

439
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,520
Some more blinky lights.
Yeah, cool.

440
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,840
Brighter, smaller.
Yeah.

441
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,080
Yeah, and, and, you know, there
are some manufacturers that we

442
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,120
work really closely with who
are, who like to hear our

443
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,880
opinion because we have a unique
opinion, you know, obviously

444
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,840
because of the amount of shows
that we do and the type of shows

445
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,280
that we do.
But you know, the the real world

446
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,160
reality of doing a show, you
know, here I'm using a janky

447
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,520
piece of cable to plug something
in or it's getting stuffed into

448
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,960
trust a certain way.
So we have a lot of like that's

449
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,200
a lot of the conversations we
have with manufacturers is the

450
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,760
infrastructure.
What is it going to take to

451
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,200
control this and drive it and
stuff that like that.

452
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,080
And like, oh, you know, like,
you know, I'm I'm a big thing.

453
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,880
Anything under 1000 watts, you
got to have a power pass through

454
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,200
on it, right?
You know, just to cut down on

455
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,600
two first and stuff.
We're real stringent.

456
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:54,320
You know, we're real vocal about
ACN being able to feed streaming

457
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,440
ACN and universe counts and
we're real vocal about it sounds

458
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,720
stupid, but handles, you know
where handles are on fixtures.

459
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,040
You know, it's you know, when
you have 100 plus # fixture a

460
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,480
lot of people, you know, I'm I'm
a big guy, but we have a lot of

461
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,000
customers that are, you know,
102 hundred, you know, 150 lbs

462
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,080
trying to bench press 100, you
know, 120 LB light out of a road

463
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,760
case.
And then you need to have two

464
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,440
people, you know, two people
manhandling or woman handling,

465
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,440
you know, a moving light.
That's crazy.

466
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,520
Yeah.
And so it's really important for

467
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,480
like we can't say talking about
like the just what it takes to

468
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,120
handle these and process the
fixtures and move them and stuff

469
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,200
like that well.
So, and the interesting thing is

470
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,840
there's, there's a real, it
seems like there's a trend of

471
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,520
getting smaller and lighter
again, which is very cool.

472
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,600
And, and I keep hearing this,
you know, lumens per pound, sort

473
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,320
of things that are coming out
from manufacturers.

474
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,920
I like that.
That's really cool.

475
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,840
How about lumens per dollar too?
You know, that's cool.

476
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,080
Too.
And I'm seeing some of that

477
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,800
like, you know, I hate to keep
talking about it because, you

478
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,720
know, they're owned by a
behemoth beast of a company.

479
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:12,680
But Martin with the Mac 1, to me
that is a really cool turn in

480
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,760
the right direction because
you've got a fixture that kind

481
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,160
of looks like a VL 5 and
operates really well, has enough

482
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,240
output to do a lot of shit with
it.

483
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,160
And it's like 1400 bucks, you
know?

484
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,320
And they've got cool accessories
and it's small and it's

485
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,800
lightweight.
And I mean that to me, the

486
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,600
moment I saw it, I said every
company's going to have a

487
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,240
billion of these things because
it just makes so much sense.

488
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,920
And I think it's IP, it's I
think it's IP 54 or something

489
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,920
like that.
Is it like did they do?

490
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,800
Did they do IP54I?
Don't think they did on that.

491
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,360
Maybe not on that.
Yeah, I don't think they did on

492
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,120
that one.
I was actually going to ask you

493
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,640
about that since we're talking
about IP, Like what do you think

494
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,680
about that sort of sort of dry
enough a concept, you know?

495
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,840
Listen, you're talking to
someone that that has done more

496
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,600
gigs than I care to think about
outdoors with, you know, you

497
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,000
know, BL twos yeah with outdoor
like, you know, with taping

498
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,480
trash bags over stuff, you know,
so like any protection, I think

499
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,720
is is better.
I think it's I like the 65

500
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:25,000
because it's fully sealed.
I get the I, you know, for long

501
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,240
term use, I think that's great.
I think where you're doing an

502
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,760
occasional show indoors or
outdoors, I think the IP 54 is a

503
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,240
smart way to do it.
You know, it reduces the weight,

504
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,160
reduces the cost.
You still get the protection and

505
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,840
stuff like that.
I'm not opposed to it.

506
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,960
I think it's, I think it's
another track, but there are

507
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,960
certain applications I would not
want to use.

508
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,600
Like if I know, like, you know,
we do a job here in New York

509
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,080
City where we are letting an ice
skating rink outdoors for for

510
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,360
like 3 or 4 months, yeah.
You know, I wouldn't put an IP54

511
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,760
fixture out there.
Even though, and, and you know,

512
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,360
I'm not shaming anyone, but I've
heard many Martin people talk

513
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,920
about using the IP 54 stuff on
installs.

514
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:13,480
And you know, I live in Florida
half the year and in in Western

515
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,640
Canada and the mountains the
other half of the year.

516
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,200
And I wouldn't do it on either
one of those.

517
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,600
You know, like I wouldn't, I
wouldn't do an install with IP

518
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,880
54 fixtures in those locations.
Well, you know, the IP 54 I

519
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,800
think you can get get the weight
down quite a bit.

520
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,080
I think you obviously it helps
with the cost.

521
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,720
Yeah.
The flip side of that is we're

522
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,640
seeing, you know some of these
IP 65 fixtures that are being

523
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,160
made out of magnesium, super
light alloys and stuff like

524
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,960
that.
So the weight thing is not

525
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,840
necessarily a an argument
anymore on that.

526
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,400
Yeah, like that.
That Air 10 range, I forget what

527
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,080
it's called, but it's got the
Rivali and they just announced

528
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,160
another fixture in it.
And yeah, that to me looks like

529
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,080
a really, really cool direction
to go.

530
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,360
Like the stuff that they've done
with that fixture.

531
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,880
Yeah.
Or that range seems to be like,

532
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,640
whoa, somebody's got it right,
you know, at this point and, you

533
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,960
know, no slight to to loader and
and elation because I think

534
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,000
they've done an incredible job.
First of all, like they were

535
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,160
really the ones who who got
this, this thing going in a big

536
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,200
way.
SGMI think started it in a small

537
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,320
way with the G1 or G whatever it
was called.

538
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,320
Yeah.
And then elation just went,

539
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,720
we're going all in on this.
We're diving in head first and

540
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,640
that got everybody else's
attention and and that's what's

541
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,240
pushed the industry forward I
think.

542
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Yeah, we, you know, we were, we
were slow on the IP 65 because

543
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,160
we didn't, I didn't want to go,
I mean, I was one of the

544
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,640
proponents of it.
I didn't want to go to an IP65

545
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,240
fixture that had, it was arc
based.

546
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,760
You know, I wanted, I wanted LED
so that we didn't have to like

547
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,000
really didn't have to open it up
to like change the lamp or

548
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,840
anything like that.
That makes sense.

549
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,920
And now we're at, you know, we,
we got, I mean, we own a ton of

550
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,320
Proteus Maximuses, we own a ton
of VL 36 hundreds and we own a

551
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,920
ton of Domino's and Persios and
stuff like that.

552
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,080
We own a in a wide variety of
manufacturers and equipment

553
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,400
that's IP65 that's LED, you
know, and they're all, you know,

554
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,560
you know, 800 Watt engines and
above and even we even got some

555
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,520
pictures with three 400 Watt
engines.

556
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,600
Yeah, really, really good.
Yeah, I love it.

557
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,120
I, you know, I talked to young
people, you know, such an old

558
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,080
person thing to say, but I
talked to people call it under

559
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,120
40 daily.
And you know, I just don't know

560
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,320
that these people understand how
good they've got it right now,

561
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,760
you know, cuz we were throwing
garbage bags on fixtures and,

562
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,840
you know, in a mad panic, trying
to keep the show from blinking

563
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,800
out and stuff.
And, and now everything's good,

564
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,320
everything's bright, everything
has incredible optics,

565
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,880
everything is IP, everything
it's, it's insane, but.

566
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,160
You know, there's still, there's
still a fair amount of room for

567
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,760
innovation.
You know, like you know, we're

568
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,880
you know, we need to get the CRI
higher, CRI TM30, TMTL, whatever

569
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,560
how the light looks on a
performer skin needs to improve

570
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440
and we're finally starting.
I think we're starting to see

571
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,800
the engines now are finally
coming out that have those

572
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,960
higher.
What I see I mean CRI is a

573
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,120
generic.
No, it's a good, it's a good,

574
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,000
good way to say it.
But The thing is, obviously they

575
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,400
compromise output, which is why
everyone went for the 7000, you

576
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,720
know, the the 7000 what you
McCall.

577
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,160
Just lost, but you know, like
they're, you know, we're, we're

578
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,600
seeing engines finally that are
that are high CRI, high output.

579
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,640
Yeah, You know, we have these
phosphor engines that are laser

580
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,880
based.
You know, I would love to go to

581
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,200
the laser engine.
You know, the, the, you know, I

582
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,960
know Elation has a picture that
we can supposedly use here in

583
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,560
the US The compliance and the
paperwork stuff is still a bit

584
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,360
of yeah, it's ridiculous, you
know.

585
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,880
But having said all that, we're
we're still there's one area

586
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,560
where the LED engine has not
done very well, and that is the

587
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:18,000
beam fixture or that hybrid, you
know, like mega point icon edge

588
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,159
type of fixture.
The engines just don't have

589
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,000
that.
That's, you know, with that

590
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,120
super narrow arc gap that those
arc lamps would generate just

591
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,639
gives you this like, you know,
late, like just super tight beam

592
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,920
with a hot spot that would cut
cut through any atmosphere.

593
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,639
But what's so funny about that,
Chris, is that like, I've been

594
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:46,960
in the moving light business for
over 30 years and I've fought

595
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,800
with designers for so long over
you don't have a perfectly even

596
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,679
field and they've got their
light meter outgoing.

597
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,040
Okay, there's a slight hot spot
and we can't use this,

598
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,800
especially like Disney designers
picking on them for a minute.

599
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:05,720
But certainly television,
everybody, theater, and now they

600
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,520
don't like a fixture because the
field is too even, the field is

601
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,720
too flat.
You know I need that hotspot in

602
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:11,840
it.
Yeah, you want that cut, you

603
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,360
know, cut through the
atmosphere.

604
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,040
You know, the lights have become
like golf clubs where I'm using,

605
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,960
you know, I have my aerial
effect fixtures, I have my wash

606
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,240
fixtures and I have my the
fixtures I'm using the light

607
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,480
people with.
And I think we see, you know,

608
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,400
you have designers that are put
in one type of fixture taught

609
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,160
like Bob Barnhart at 22°.
He'll put up all 26 hundreds and

610
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,560
he'll correct them and do
whatever he needs to do, whether

611
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,280
it's an aerial effect, washing
scenery or lighting people,

612
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,600
using one fixture type to do all
that.

613
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,680
But then we have a lot of the
designers who are using lights

614
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,960
like golf clubs where we're
using, OK, I'm going to use this

615
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,720
light just to light the people.
I'm going to use this light just

616
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:56,400
to wash my scenery with texture.
I'm going to use this light for

617
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,600
aerials.
So we're, we're, it's

618
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,560
interesting that we have, we
have the, the, the, the lights

619
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,400
have evolved to the point right
now where we can do either.

620
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,360
We have we can go both routes.
Yeah, there are pictures.

621
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,440
That will fulfill either either
or.

622
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,400
So, well, the other thing that I
think for the first time really

623
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,680
in in history is that you can
mix and match between

624
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,360
manufacturers without there
being a, a real different look

625
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,400
or a different capability or a
different movement or a

626
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,920
different like they really can
be blended together quite nicely

627
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,840
now.
Yeah, I, I used to pride myself.

628
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,840
Like I could look at the light
and like, I know what light.

629
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,080
I know what light is.
I know which manufacturer that

630
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,080
is.
Yeah, I so agree with you.

631
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,960
I'm.
So hard pressed these days I'm

632
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,360
like mini Roby fixtures GLP what
am I looking at?

633
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,040
Really the ones to me that are
easy is, is typically Airtan

634
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,480
because they're so smooth, like
just their design is that real

635
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,120
smooth design.
So they're a little bit easier

636
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,040
to pick out.
But aside from that, I can't

637
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,720
tell, you know, GLP certainly
because they didn't have the

638
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,960
bases on most of their fixtures,
so they were a little easier to

639
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,640
pick out.
But other than that, like you

640
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,880
can't tell.
You just can't tell Mac ones.

641
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,880
You can tell, you know, they
they are easy to pick out in the

642
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,040
crowd now.
But yeah, it's true.

643
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,480
It's true.
They've become a bit ubiquitous.

644
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,560
Yeah.
Well, you know, but that, and

645
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,320
that's for us as a rental
company, you know, we, we don't

646
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,400
want to be 31 flavours.
We want to be, we want to have a

647
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,040
couple different options.
So we want chocolate, vanilla,

648
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,680
strawberry, maybe Rocky road,
you know, 3 or 4 flavours

649
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,520
because that means we can just
buy more of them and it's.

650
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,480
Much more efficient way to run a
company, that's for sure.

651
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:50,200
But the thing that, but that is
also dependent upon the

652
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,800
manufacturers having a longer
development cycle.

653
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,520
Like we be perfectly honest, we
struggle with some of these

654
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,640
manufacturers.
Every eight months is a new

655
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,520
light coming out and I'm like, I
haven't even finished paying for

656
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,960
the light that I just bought 8
months ago, never mind the light

657
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,520
that that just came out.
Yeah.

658
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,680
So I get that.
However, most of my career has

659
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,200
been on the other side of the
fence.

660
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,480
And so I also get that, you
know, I mean, every company

661
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,080
needs to hit their sales
targets.

662
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,080
And the problem is once there's
enough VL 26 hundreds in the

663
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,480
market, what are you gonna do?
You know, you got to come out

664
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,960
with the 2700 or the 2600 plus
or the, you know, and it's no

665
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,240
different with Apple or or
Samsung or any of the other

666
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,840
companies out there.
Everyone growth, you know, is,

667
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,600
is important.
And in order to grow, you got to

668
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,520
sometimes do those types of
things.

669
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,520
You can't just go wider.
You got to kind of go horizontal

670
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,320
and vertical at the same time,
and it's tough, man.

671
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,320
It's a tough balance because
you're right and they're right.

672
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,640
You know 100%.
Yeah, so.

673
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,080
You know, and and we, we do get
some push back, you know, we'll

674
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,080
make sub, we'll bid on a job and
they've specified luminaire X

675
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,400
and we'll give you luminaire Y.
Yeah.

676
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,480
And they're like, well, I really
want an X I'm like, well, you

677
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,040
know, we don't own an X.
We own AY, you know, and Y and

678
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,840
it's gotten easier in the sense
that there's not a like we have

679
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,080
lights that are very comparable,
you know, so it's it's unless

680
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,400
there's a good thing, there's
one little thing that you

681
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,640
actually possibly have that the
light that we're offering can't

682
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,240
do Yeah, so that's been good,
but the same well it.

683
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:31,520
Depends on the designer and the
show and stuff too.

684
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,920
Obviously, like some designers,
no matter what, they're going to

685
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,720
get what they asked for, period,
you know, or they're going to

686
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,120
get it from somebody else.
But you know, I think, I think

687
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,040
what I've seen from my side and
correct me if I'm wrong, but I

688
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,520
think that designers and I think
in general productions have been

689
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,960
much more reasonable when it
comes to that topic where, you

690
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,960
know, they will accept
alternates and and they look at

691
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,960
your inventory when they're not
necessarily when they're

692
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,840
specking, but when everything's
getting completed right there

693
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,680
right before production
rehearsals or whatever, they go,

694
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,320
yeah, OK, you know what?
You got 1000 of those and only

695
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,040
200 of those.
I'm not going to make you go

696
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,840
cross rent.
Let's.

697
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,000
Just use the other one.
Yeah, so.

698
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,120
Yeah.
And I think that's a function of

699
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,440
like the lights have gotten
better and more equivalent.

700
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,160
But I also think that's a
function of the economics.

701
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,480
Like listen, I can give you if
you want what you, if you're, if

702
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,120
you want light XI can get you
light X, but you're going to

703
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,880
have to pay, you're going to pay
a premium for that.

704
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,160
Yeah, either we have to go buy
it or sub rent it or something

705
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,280
like that, right.
Whereas if you take the light

706
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,200
that I've got sitting on the
shelf, I can give you, I can do

707
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,720
a much better deal on the.
Economics, well, and I think

708
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,040
COVID did a bunch of our work
for us on that one too.

709
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,160
You know, COVID forced people to
take what what's available

710
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,600
versus what's going to take four
months to come out of production

711
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,960
or whatever.
But yeah, it's it's, it's

712
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,520
certainly interesting.
I do think though that that we

713
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,440
and you would probably be a
better person to talk up to this

714
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,000
than I would.
I feel like the used equipment

715
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,720
side has gotten harder just
because there's more available

716
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,320
coming out of China that are
really good at a equivalent

717
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,840
price almost.
Yeah.

718
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:17,040
I would say that's had an
impact, but I think the bigger

719
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,480
impact for us on the used
equipment market when it comes

720
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,760
to larger sales like the
somebody needing 100 moving

721
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,240
lights for a show or a tour or
something, what we've found is

722
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:29,800
we're competing with
manufacturers quite often now

723
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,960
who are just really desperate to
make that sale.

724
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,480
And so they're offering 12 month
terms or they're offering a

725
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,800
price that's so close to use
that it doesn't make any sense.

726
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,520
So on one side, you've got
sellers who are trying to

727
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,640
increase their their their used
price to a point where they can

728
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,280
replace it with brand new.
But on the other side, you've

729
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,080
got sellers who are the
manufacturers who are lowering

730
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,360
their new price.
So that gap has gotten much

731
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,440
smaller between the unused and
on purpose from the

732
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,040
manufacturer's side.
But you can't just be

733
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,200
irresponsible and say we're just
gonna, these are gonna go into

734
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,800
landfills and you know, we're
just gonna keep replacing them

735
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,880
with new product.
That's not gonna, that's not

736
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,520
sustainable, not in our industry
or any industry really.

737
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,520
No.
So, so, you know, I'm not

738
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,240
crying.
Our business has done really

739
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:23,040
well.
It's just very different.

740
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,440
You know, it's like every three
months there's a pivot in our

741
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,360
industry and it's like, oh,
we're gonna do it that way now,

742
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:31,000
are we?
Yeah.

743
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,960
And you know, we're on top of
it.

744
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,640
Fortunately, we we pay very
close attention to what's going

745
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,200
on out there.
But you're right.

746
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:39,840
I mean, it definitely has gotten
more challenging.

747
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,360
Yeah, but you know, the B
toppers or B stopper or

748
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,280
whatever, Sorry, I don't know
the exact name people if you're

749
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,840
listening, but they don't tend
to be our customers.

750
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,160
You know, typically I would say
the people who are buying those

751
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,520
and talking about them on
Facebook's new version of the

752
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,840
Light Network, whatever that
group is called, they don't tend

753
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,560
to be our customers.
For the most part.

754
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,840
You guys are our customers.
Christie Solotech, 4 Wall even,

755
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,040
you know, like a lot of the
biggest rental companies out

756
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,000
there with the most complex
problems.

757
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,800
Those are the ones that we like
solving.

758
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,200
We we aren't.
We don't turn away the guy who

759
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,760
wants to buy 4 moving lights,
but that's not who we're

760
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,360
targeting.
That's fair enough.

761
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,400
We've built a company to deal
with the PR GS of the world.

762
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,400
The complicated.
People, it seems like the only

763
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,440
consistent thing has changed
these days.

764
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,640
Hell yeah, Hell yeah.
Well, and that ain't guess what?

765
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,480
That ain't gonna slow down
anytime soon cuz we're gonna get

766
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,240
into the the the two letter word
that everyone loves to hate so

767
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,880
much.
So just to back up a little bit

768
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,080
in case anyone just fell off the
turnip truck today and don't

769
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:56,040
know who you are.
So I believe you started in high

770
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,600
school like so many people.
Yeah, I, my, my high school

771
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,360
story is a, my high school hates
this story.

772
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:10,280
I got caught super gluing
someone's locker shut and I had

773
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:15,360
to serve a, you know, I had to
serve a detention, a Friday

774
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,400
detention.
And the theater teacher walked

775
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,920
by and said they needed help
hanging lights in the theater

776
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,480
for the upcoming play.
So I served out my detention

777
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,920
hanging lights in the theater
and that's how I got hooked into

778
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,480
to doing this.
So it was, it was literally this

779
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,200
much better than like
fingernails on a chalkboard in

780
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,600
the classroom or whatever.
Yeah, it was literally just

781
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:39,680
gonna have.
Yeah, totally.

782
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,360
That was totally it, Yeah.
Yeah.

783
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,240
Yeah, that's funny.
So your your first your first

784
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:49,080
gig was at Verilite.
Yeah, So I, you know, I went to,

785
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,160
so I went to college at a small
Midwestern school, Wittenberg

786
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:59,120
University in Springfield.
OH, which is that's in the news

787
00:44:59,120 --> 00:44:59,800
lately.
We want to.

788
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,320
Talk about that, yeah.
That's fine.

789
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,000
But amazing place to, I mean,
going to school, I'm from, I'm

790
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,000
from the Northeast, so going to
school in the Midwest,

791
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,760
completely different experience,
which I absolutely loved.

792
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:15,600
You started doing shows, You
know, obviously I did theater,

793
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,000
but I started doing touring
shows around my school.

794
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,440
At that time, there was a couple
art centers, performing arts

795
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,320
centers that I would freelance
at.

796
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,520
And then I got an internship at
Very Light the end of my junior

797
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,720
year in Dallas.
And so I went to Very Light

798
00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,760
interned and they hired me at
the end of my internship.

799
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,880
And I was like, but I have
another year of school and I

800
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,440
said, no problem.
Like when you're done, you're

801
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,040
going to come work for us.
I said great.

802
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,360
Went through my entire senior
year in college with a job.

803
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,520
Which is amazing.
Yeah, right.

804
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:51,160
That's so cool.
And then I was expecting to move

805
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,720
to Dallas, TX, you know, that's
where they were headquartered at

806
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,480
the time.
And so I went home, you know, to

807
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,680
get ready to move.
And I was maybe home for a week

808
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,880
or so.
And I got in a phone call from

809
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,320
them and they said, when can you
be in New York City?

810
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,480
I said, I can be there in 48
hours.

811
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,920
They're like, okay, that's where
you're gonna go work.

812
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,800
And so in the span of 48 hours,
I moved to I found an apartment,

813
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,760
moved to New York City, and I've
never left.

814
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,240
Yeah, which is crazy.
Did they give you 3 times as

815
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,520
much because you were going to
New York instead of Dallas?

816
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,480
Or did you just live on food
stamps?

817
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:23,840
And yeah.
Subway, Yeah.

818
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,000
I mean, I just like like every
just out of school.

819
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,920
I mean, I started in the cable
department and it was at very

820
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,040
light New York, you know, where
the Google building is now is

821
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,880
used to be the barrel at office
down in down in Meatpacking

822
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,680
district.
So yeah, I worked there.

823
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,680
I worked in the shop was the
best thing I've ever done it.

824
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,880
I really learned how to service
the equipment and, and also gave

825
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,280
me the first time chance to
start with development because

826
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,640
we, you know, we just debuted
the, the BL7 at that time had

827
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:01,160
just come out and we, I can tell
horror stories about that.

828
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,320
Fixture.
I know many of them.

829
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:03,920
Yeah, right.
There's.

830
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:04,520
A lot of.
Horror.

831
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,800
But I, you know, I learned a lot
with that and it made me a lot

832
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,240
of money at the time.
So I don't have any horror

833
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:10,800
stories.
Yeah.

834
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,840
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I worked in the shop.

835
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,520
Yeah, the VL 7 was job security,
totally.

836
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,640
Totally, Yeah.
I learned a lot about the

837
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,320
equipment and about doing show.
I started doing shows in the

838
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,880
area and you know, and then I
transitioned to Rd. staff and

839
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,520
you know, I was doing
Rock'n'roll, TV, theater,

840
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,960
whatever, whatever was up on
whatever show was available and

841
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,640
I was next on the roster.
So I did that for 7-8 years

842
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,120
before I finally came off the
road and started doing the

843
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,360
development job that I do now.
So.

844
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,040
So you've literally had two jobs
in in your whole life?

845
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,840
Very much.
Well, Pierre, and and actually

846
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,640
it's just one because very light
was very light became DLPS

847
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,160
lighting services and then we
were acquired by PRG.

848
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:03,080
So, you know, last time I did a
resume it was 9997 or something

849
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:03,560
like that.
Wow.

850
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,040
That's so cool.
That's crazy.

851
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:05,840
Good on.
I did.

852
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,520
I did actually just update my
resume just to have it and I was

853
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,240
like Oh my God I haven't done
this in forever.

854
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,320
Yeah, yeah.
So, but I've changed jobs.

855
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,400
Last year.
Chris has updated his resume.

856
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:17,400
Yeah.
That's right.

857
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,360
Let's get those numbers up.
We'll have a telethon right

858
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,200
here, a live telephone on, you
know, you're willing to pay how

859
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,000
much?
No, I mean PRG obviously loves

860
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,400
you and needs you and you're,
you're at the top of the food

861
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,520
chain there with the C at the
start of your title, you know,

862
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,280
which is always good, you know
3.

863
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,160
Letters $5 You just need a cup
of coffee at Starbucks.

864
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,200
Well, I don't know.
I think it gets you a lot of

865
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,760
respect throughout the industry.
You know, I know anytime I'm

866
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,120
talking to anyone about, you
know, from the moving light

867
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,240
side, specifically about their
relationship with PRG, your name

868
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,640
tends to come up.
So that's a, that's a good

869
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,920
positive.
I appreciate that.

870
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,640
You know, we're, I mean, listen,
you know, we're, we're, we're

871
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,800
not a perfect company and I
don't think any company is

872
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,800
perfect, frankly.
You know, and I have some good

873
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,360
friends that work for Four Wall
and Solo tech and you know, I

874
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,240
think competition is healthy,
frankly.

875
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,280
And those guys and guys at
Upstaging too, and Bandit and

876
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,480
Vault, all those companies have
a lot of great people working

877
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,760
for them and they all do really
good work.

878
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,040
Yeah, but.
The thing is, PRG did it first.

879
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:33,400
Like PRG grew to the scale that
you did before you gave other

880
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,040
people sort of a, a road map to
follow.

881
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:40,520
And one thing I know from my own
career is that, you know,

882
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,160
pioneers are always, you know,
those guys with the arrows in

883
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:49,480
their backs and stuff, right?
And, you know, breaking things

884
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,520
and, and expanding and scaling a
business and all of those

885
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,480
things.
Like I remember sitting in some

886
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,400
of those very, very early PRG
discussions with, you know,

887
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:04,280
Marty Narudin at Vanco and
talking about these guys are

888
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,280
dumb.
They're fucking Rd. cases don't

889
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,680
even fit our lights and stuff
like that, You know, and, and,

890
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,560
or cabling.
Like there was when you, when

891
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,360
Jerry first started acquiring
some companies, some of the

892
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,760
infrastructure problems were
seemingly tiny until you tried

893
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,840
to put a show together and you
had 200 studio colors and four

894
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,880
different color temperatures
coming out of him in white.

895
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,880
And, you know, so many of those
things that you don't think

896
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,960
about when you're combining
companies together.

897
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,440
And yeah, so anytime I've talked
to guys who are acquiring other

898
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,040
companies since that time, I've
always said, you know, you need

899
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,360
to put in a line item in, in, in
the investment for

900
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,520
infrastructure.
And it's got to be a big number

901
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,200
because cabling needs to match
cases need to match all kinds of

902
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,720
things that you're not even
thinking about right now need to

903
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:58,440
match.
And, you know, I, I, I talk to

904
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,040
my friends all the time who work
at other companies and, you

905
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:06,360
know, it's funny, like what, you
know, I, I can commiserate with

906
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,400
them because like, you know, I,
you know, like, Oh yeah.

907
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,480
Like, Oh yeah.
You, you just got, you just

908
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,640
acquired this company and they
have a completely different Rd.

909
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,240
case design or they're different
pin out on their socket packs or

910
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:18,880
something like that.
It's like, Oh yeah, been there,

911
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,160
done that, got the T-shirt.
Yeah, totally.

912
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,440
Yeah.
So I and I have, that's why I

913
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,560
have, I have a ton of respect
for our competitors.

914
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,880
You know, they keep us on our
edge and they, and a lot of them

915
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,640
are doing a lot of great work.
You know, the thing, the thing

916
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,640
that I like about, you know, I
think probably our, I believe

917
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,680
our greatest strength at PRG has
always been our people.

918
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,520
You know, we have a ton of
equipment, no doubt about that.

919
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,400
We've done every show under the
sun, Debbie school dance to the

920
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:51,920
Super Bowl, you know, but I
think what and, and and what I

921
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,400
think sets us apart is the
diversity of people that we

922
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,240
have.
And, you know, our competitors

923
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:58,200
have have amazing people as
well.

924
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,640
I don't mean to disparage them
whatsoever.

925
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,240
Yeah.
I think the thing that I really

926
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:06,520
enjoy about working here has
always been like, you know, I

927
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,920
don't know, someone asked me a
question, like I have no idea,

928
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,480
but I'm going to pick up the
phone and I'm going to make a

929
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,600
quick phone call and I guarantee
I can find someone that's true.

930
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,800
That it, that not only has more
knowledge than I'll ever know

931
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,600
and has probably forgotten more
than I'll ever know, but is, is,

932
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,280
is a pioneer in the industry,
you know, whether it's video

933
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,840
media servers or cameras and
stuff like that, you know, and

934
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,560
be able to lean on those people
to figure out a solution for our

935
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,200
customers.
And that's incredible.

936
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:40,680
Like that's so, you know, like I
know people love to beat up on

937
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,200
PRG and people in my own company
over the 20 years we've been

938
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,000
doing business selling used gear
for PRG, love to say, oh, PRG,

939
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:54,000
you know, but The thing is you
have to understand the people on

940
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,480
the other end of that phone
call, what they're dealing with.

941
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,400
And, you know, it's, it's a
complicated machine.

942
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,400
It's a very large and
complicated machine.

943
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,400
And, you know, yes, there's
going to be challenges along the

944
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,120
way and, and, you know, the
ability to pick up the phone and

945
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,080
have somebody on the other end
of the call who is probably one

946
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,000
of the world's leading experts
on that topic is pretty cool.

947
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,200
You know that's the.
Basic, you know, and, and like I

948
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,240
laugh all the time because I get
you know, I do tech service, I

949
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:28,120
do get phone calls, I get calls
from people all the time like,

950
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,520
oh, you know, this just this
just two great examples.

951
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,280
Someone calls us up recently and
dimmer rack stencer rack

952
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:40,040
actually had had died.
So we're going through it and

953
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,880
I'm like, you know what, you
know, this is not a control

954
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,320
module issue.
It's not a, a dimmer module

955
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:46,880
issue.
There's a problem with the back

956
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,440
plane.
Something shorted out in it.

957
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,640
We're going to have to swap
your, we're going to have to

958
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,800
swap your dimmer out.
You know, where are you in the,

959
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,520
in the US, you know, whatever
the closest shop is, I'll get a,

960
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,720
I'll get a rack rolling to you.
I said, worst case, if I don't

961
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:02,640
have a shop nearby, I'll call
whatever the local vendor is and

962
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:03,840
see if I can find something for
you.

963
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,480
And they're like, oh, well,
we're not, it's not a PRG show.

964
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,280
I was like, what, why are you
calling us?

965
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:11,480
He's like, well, I knew you'd
pick up.

966
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,640
Oh my God, that's hilarious.
I was.

967
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,840
Like OK, that no problem.
That's almost that, that Zappos.

968
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,160
I don't know if you've ever
heard the Zappos story.

969
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,680
Tony Hsieh, God rest his soul.
Tony Hsieh talked about it in

970
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:32,360
his book Delivering Happiness.
But they've always had such a

971
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:38,280
liberal support, you know, rule
or, or philosophy or whatever

972
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,400
you want to call it.
And so a customer who had been

973
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,640
buying shoes on Zappos or
whatever was travelling and was

974
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:49,080
in San Diego.
And he called Zappos customer

975
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,400
service because it was like
11:00 at night and he was hungry

976
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,000
and wanted to order a pizza.
And he asked them if they knew

977
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,680
who made good pizza that was
open at 11:30 at night in San

978
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,400
Diego.
And the guy says, hang on a

979
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,320
minute.
And he says, well, where are

980
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:06,800
you?
In San Diego, so I can find

981
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,640
something close by.
And he goes, I'm in so and so

982
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,680
hotel.
And he goes and who am I

983
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,960
speaking to?
OK, So he comes back on the

984
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,320
phone 5 minutes later and he
goes, yeah, found the best

985
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,040
pizza.
It's called, you know, Tony's

986
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,720
pizza.
And they're open until 2:00 in

987
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:22,040
the morning.
And I just ordered you a pizza

988
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,160
and it's on its way.
And they said it'll be there in

989
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,320
20 minutes.
Amazing, amazing.

990
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,640
Well, how do I pay for that?
And he goes, don't worry, you've

991
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,840
been a good customer to us.
We're just going to take care of

992
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,040
it for you.
And I mean, like, that's just

993
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,480
ridiculous.
But you know, that's how you

994
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,240
make friends in our industry.
Well, and at the end of the day,

995
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:41,360
it's about doing the show, you
know, like you got to like the

996
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,240
show's at 8:00, you got to make
the show happen, right?

997
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,920
So, so, you know, we get those
calls all the time.

998
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,280
People call us and they're like,
yeah, absolutely, you know,

999
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,400
happy to help.
I'm like just out of you know

1000
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,960
what, you know, and as luck
would have it, the person who

1001
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,240
called me in that particular
incident, the I won't say their

1002
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,120
company, but I happen to know
the account manager at that

1003
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,960
company.
So, you know, so I called him up

1004
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,360
and I said, hey, your guy called
me just left Yi, you know, we

1005
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,600
took care of it, you know, not a
problem.

1006
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,320
He's like, really?
I said, yeah, you got to get the

1007
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:12,200
show done.
I get it.

1008
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:14,240
You know, you guys didn't have
an office nearby.

1009
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:16,640
We did it's it's all good.
That's wild.

1010
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,240
And I'm sure at some point later
in time you're going to you're

1011
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:21,640
going to scratch my back as
well.

1012
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,360
So there's a lot of that.
But but the other thing that I

1013
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,400
think at least that's I think
unique to us is the show came

1014
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,080
in, prepped in.
It was here in New York City.

1015
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,560
They prepped in our shop
prepped, you know, pre lined all

1016
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,240
this cable into like some 20
foot, 20 inch box Truss, 10 foot

1017
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:41,800
sticks.
They're going into a into a

1018
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:47,120
ballroom some place in the city.
No one ever measured the height

1019
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:52,280
of the elevator.
So, so a Sunday night, we get

1020
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,600
the phone rings, we get the call
and they're like the Truss won't

1021
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,240
fit in the elevator.
You know, it's like, you know,

1022
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:01,200
it's an 8 foot elevator.
So like, OK, what do you got?

1023
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,840
They're like, well, we all 10
footers, you know, so we ended

1024
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,360
up swapping out, you know, we
ran, a guy ran to the truck, ran

1025
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,960
to the shop and we just grabbed
as many 5 footers and six and

1026
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,760
two and any six and four,
whatever combination combination

1027
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,000
to get the 10 footers done, to
get the job done, to get them

1028
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,240
sorted.
Wow, you know.

1029
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:23,440
That's crazy.
Which is insane.

1030
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:29,760
I think that that I think that's
a unique case because of our

1031
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,320
size and scale that like, hey,
it was amazing that we had that

1032
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,720
we had enough sitting here that
we could do that, but not

1033
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,600
everybody can do that.
No, of course not.

1034
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,840
Of course not.
No, it's amazing.

1035
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,440
It's, you know, there's a lot of
challenges and there's some

1036
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,320
benefits of being that big for
sure.

1037
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,480
You know when when you, I guess
one of the things is you have a

1038
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,640
bigger stick that you can swing
when you need to.

1039
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,320
And I know I've been on the
receiving end of that stick a

1040
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:02,640
few times in my career, but you
know, that can move the sticks

1041
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,360
forward sometimes.
And I always tell, I tell

1042
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,760
manufacturers, I said we're, I
said I appreciate we're not your

1043
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,280
normal customer.
You know, you know, we have a

1044
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,160
different point of view on
equipment just because of,

1045
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,520
again, because of our scale and
the type of shows and the amount

1046
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,440
of shows that we do.
So, you know, I try to whenever

1047
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,320
we're talking to, especially on
the development side, when we

1048
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,520
ever we're ever talking about
like, oh, be really like the

1049
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,800
pass through thing.
Like you said, anything less

1050
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,360
than 1000 watts should have a
power pass through, you know,

1051
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,040
and then I got to explain like,
OK, the reason for that is, is

1052
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,400
that way I don't have to send
out two version 3 furs.

1053
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,760
And it's less infrastructure
cost because we don't

1054
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:43,920
necessarily charge for
infrastructure like we would.

1055
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,520
So I want to make sure that we
can power this stuff in an

1056
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,800
economical way without, you
know, whereas if I have to send

1057
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,800
all these extra widgets to make
it work, that's going to add

1058
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,920
cost to Mark to our customer.
Yeah.

1059
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:59,280
So that's, you know.
Well, in the Gobo thing that you

1060
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,760
mentioned, like I'm sure that's
a conversation that you have and

1061
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,440
like are you drawing on a napkin
design ideas and stuff and

1062
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,640
passing that over to the
manufacturer and saying?

1063
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,920
Here, Bill, we've done that.
Yeah, yeah.

1064
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,240
That's, you know, one of the
things like that we've been

1065
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,520
very, one of the latest
initiatives that we've been very

1066
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,360
forthright about has been
storage like light

1067
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,200
transportation, basing and
stuff.

1068
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:28,400
Yeah.
So we specific to IP65, some of

1069
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,680
the 1st IP65 lights we started
getting, we kept on having

1070
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,400
problems where we had casing for
it go out and do the show, come

1071
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,120
back and we would have mold
problems in the cases because

1072
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,480
the cases have gotten wet.
Then you know, you have the

1073
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,720
inserts and stuff we had, we had
mold problems, we had cases

1074
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,560
getting delaminated because of
the rain and stuff like that.

1075
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:54,000
So we said we would prefer our
IP65 lights to be in like a meat

1076
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,720
rack style.
So we developed, we actually

1077
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,080
developed, designed and built
our own adjustable meat racks

1078
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,640
that can handle different types
of moving lights.

1079
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,560
And we've just, we've just given
that design.

1080
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,560
I've shown like, hey, I've
multiple manufacturers.

1081
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:10,680
I'm like, here's what we're
doing.

1082
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,160
This is why we're doing it.
Here's the design.

1083
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,040
If you want to use it, great.
If you don't totally get that.

1084
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:22,040
And what was interesting about
that was we built those carts

1085
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,520
to, it's just, it's just a 2
unit cart that we designed

1086
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:26,840
right?
And with an adjustable height

1087
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,320
that I can put different lights
in and then stacks and stuff

1088
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,080
like that.
We built that because we didn't

1089
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,400
want, we didn't want casing to
get wet that way.

1090
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,320
It's an aluminum car.
I don't have to worry about it

1091
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,720
getting wet, right.
But there's been this this

1092
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,320
trickle down effect that we
never actually thought about.

1093
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,560
The first was that it's a little
depending upon where we get it

1094
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:45,880
made.
It's actually cheaper than a

1095
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:50,720
road case.
The the other unintended

1096
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:55,800
consequence that has made a has
moved the needle for us in a big

1097
01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:00,120
way has been shipping costs.
An aluminum card is half the

1098
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,880
weight of a road case.
So when you're shipping, the

1099
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,840
cost of shipping 2 lights in a
case versus on the cart is

1100
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,560
significantly lower for us.
So when we have to move stuff

1101
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,440
around internal to us, yeah,
that, that makes a big

1102
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,040
difference for us.
Yeah.

1103
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,800
And ultimately to our customers
as well, because when they're,

1104
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,000
you know, it's less fuel and
trucks and stuff like that.

1105
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,120
Is that just specific to the IP
stuff though?

1106
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,920
Not the, not the indoor.
Stuff.

1107
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,440
So it's funny that we started
with IP, now we've built more of

1108
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,320
these carts and now we use them
for anything and everything.

1109
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,240
Yeah.
Especially one of the areas

1110
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,880
that, you know, the two areas
where we use them really heavily

1111
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,920
is Broadway.
Don't they?

1112
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,560
Don't you know, we used to send
lights on Broadway.

1113
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,720
It would come back and then
we're stuck with a bunch of

1114
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:52,520
empty cases only fit that light.
Now I have racks that I can use

1115
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:53,680
for any light.
Doesn't matter.

1116
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,360
That's great.
And then the touring guys have

1117
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,200
really liked it because, OK, I'm
loading up this, you know, for

1118
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,040
whatever reason, it's these
particular lights are not

1119
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,600
travelling in pre rigged trust,
right?

1120
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,000
So, but because it's a cart and
it can accept any light size,

1121
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,200
you can mix and match lights by
position as needed and don't

1122
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,440
have to worry about it.
Not, you know, different Rd.

1123
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,200
cases.
Great, smart solution.

1124
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,320
Like I started seeing shops with
those carts in them and I was

1125
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,200
like, well, this makes so much
sense.

1126
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,600
You know, from a storage
standpoint, from a shipping

1127
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,240
standpoint, all of the things
that you just said.

1128
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,560
And then I mean, I guess for non
IP fixtures, if you wanted to,

1129
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,880
you could just have a bag that
goes over the cart, right?

1130
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,000
Yep.
You know, like a vinyl bag,

1131
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,800
vinyl cover over the cart or
whatever.

1132
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,320
So, you know, but, but we've
offered that to, we've gone to

1133
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,000
multiple manufacturers, here's
the design, you know, if you

1134
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,200
want it great.
A couple of them have jumped on

1135
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,080
that and they've done their own
iterations.

1136
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,080
Some of our competitors have had
similar cart design, which is

1137
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,840
great.
So you know that kind of stuff

1138
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,520
all the time.
Well, that benefits everyone.

1139
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,520
You know, it's not, and it's not
really something you're going to

1140
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,800
go out and get IP on and, and
waste your time and money doing

1141
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,760
that.
It's, it's yeah, it's more of a

1142
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,880
functional thing.
But you know, that's, that's a

1143
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,160
great idea.
And so our manufacturers now

1144
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,560
offering instead of Sips or Rd.
cases or whatever, are they

1145
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,640
offering carts now?
Yeah, there's a couple that are

1146
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:16,280
doing that, which is great.
Oh really?

1147
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,760
Yeah, I haven't seen that yet.
Yeah, that's one of them.

1148
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:21,320
I've seen.
You can get a different car

1149
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:22,240
adjustable car.
And stuff.

1150
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,440
See that from Chauvet?
Yeah, I did see that.

1151
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:25,560
You're right.
Yeah.

1152
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:31,520
Wow, that's cool.
And So what about, I don't know

1153
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:37,240
if people know this, but I'm
pretty sure the Roby Robo Spot

1154
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:42,280
system is based on your ground
control and I believe it's even

1155
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:43,720
licensed.
Correct.

1156
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:45,720
Yeah, they license it from us.
Yeah.

1157
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,560
So are you still innovating on
that product or are you just

1158
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,920
cashing those Roby checks and
going you guys build it, we'll

1159
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,080
just use?
It no, no, we're we're we're we

1160
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,920
are hot, hot and heavy on
innovating still.

1161
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,520
Yeah, you know, it's
interesting.

1162
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:03,120
They have you know, they've
taken a certain path with their

1163
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,880
system.
There's some things I'm like,

1164
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,480
oh, we, we looked at that and we
decide not to go that route and

1165
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,480
with for good cause.
And there's things in that

1166
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,080
system like, oh, that's it.
That's I like what they did

1167
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:16,720
there.
I wish I'd thought of that.

1168
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,360
So I, you know, I, you know,
there's some things there I

1169
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,520
think that they've done well and
there's some things I'm like, I

1170
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,000
wouldn't have picked that if it
was me.

1171
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,760
Having said that, you know, we
are continuing innovating.

1172
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,400
You know, one of the big things
that we have done, which

1173
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,280
separates us from them is we've
opened up ground control to

1174
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:40,400
control non PRG fixtures.
So at this point in time, we

1175
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,640
have effectively hot rodded a
variety of lights to work with

1176
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,120
the ground control system.
So we've done the Arrington

1177
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:54,960
Domino, Domino Lt., we've done
VL 3600, VL 2600, we've done the

1178
01:04:54,960 --> 01:05:00,400
Robe BMFL Robe Key one, We've
done the Mac Ultra, we've done

1179
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:07,080
the Elation Brutus, we've done
high end titanium, Halcyon

1180
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,200
titanium.
So we've done a bunch of other

1181
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,280
fixtures.
And, and when I say it

1182
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,560
physically hot rod where we're
mounting a camera, routing

1183
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:20,880
cables through, you know, in
fact, the the, the Domino

1184
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaking of Eriton, we were
talking earlier about how tight

1185
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,280
everything is.
That is one of the hardest

1186
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,880
lights for us to convert has
been that fixture.

1187
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,480
Just trying to find the space to
run the wires through the head

1188
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,520
and stuff like that.
Isn't that crazy?

1189
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,920
Just like you run out of space
for a wire like, yeah, that's

1190
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,600
designed pretty tight.
Yeah, we've designed the camera

1191
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:46,360
housings now to be IP65.
So if you if like the Domino's

1192
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,680
and IP65 fixture, the 36
hundreds and IP65 fixture, both

1193
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,040
the camera housings on those
fixtures are fully weather

1194
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,880
resistant which is great.
So we've expanded that out quite

1195
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,160
a bit to drive other people's
fixtures.

1196
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,680
Then the other, the other big
thing which we have not, this is

1197
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,480
probably going to be, this will
be the first time we've ever

1198
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,760
publicly talked about this.
So this is going to be an

1199
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,800
exclusive for you.
You heard it here first.

1200
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:23,800
We have been working on a multi
fixture control where I can take

1201
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,360
a ground control fixture with a
camera and I can link non ground

1202
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,720
controls, just standard moving
lights to it and wherever the

1203
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,240
ground control fixture points
all the other lights are linked

1204
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:36,120
to it.
Roby has that capability.

1205
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,520
We had we've had that capability
for a while, but it was only PRG

1206
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,160
fixtures and then we've we've
completely redone it and I'll

1207
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,880
explain a little bit why here in
a second.

1208
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,080
Obviously there's the follow me
solution that's out there.

1209
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,160
Yeah, that's a solely computer
based system.

1210
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,240
It doesn't have a handle and
stuff.

1211
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:57,600
So and they've done some
interesting things as totally.

1212
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,160
Different philosophy, which is
interesting that there's these

1213
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:05,840
two parallel sort of technology
lines in follow spots, which

1214
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,480
really are between the two of
them, rendering at least trust

1215
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,360
follow spots completely.
Yeah, 100%, yeah.

1216
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,320
And the the total irony there is
we tested the following stuff as

1217
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,640
like when we originally were
developing ground control, we

1218
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:23,880
looked at the Xbox controller, I
looked at a Wii Remote, we

1219
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:27,080
looked at mouse based.
We looked at a touch screen.

1220
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,080
We looked at an iPad
accelerometer based.

1221
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,320
We looked at a camera control
yoke.

1222
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:36,120
We looked at all these different
control scenarios that like

1223
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:40,040
follow me uses that Roby uses
and then we landed with, we went

1224
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,160
with the conventional like this
is everyone's used to running a

1225
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,240
follow spot this way.
So that's why we did it that

1226
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,120
way.
But I mean, I've got pictures in

1227
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:53,240
our in our files of how of us
mocking those scenarios up and

1228
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,400
stuff.
And we not only did we mock them

1229
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:59,320
up, but we actually developed
it, put, put it on a camera, put

1230
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,080
the light and the camera in a
parking lot.

1231
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:06,360
And actually, and we're actually
doing that in real time and

1232
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:07,560
seeing what worked and what
didn't.

1233
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,240
Work.
So let me ask you a question

1234
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,520
that probably you're one of the
few people on earth who can

1235
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,560
answer.
So I mean, the obvious benefit

1236
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,960
to a follow me type of system is
that you get rid of all the

1237
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:19,760
operators.
You know, you don't have to pay

1238
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:22,880
all of these additional people
and you don't have to have all

1239
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,920
of these additional like follow
spot things.

1240
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:31,200
What is the benefit of having
the manual the more manual

1241
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:36,359
system with the operators?
I think it's just it's fidelity

1242
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:42,399
in control.
There's more, you know, we never

1243
01:08:42,399 --> 01:08:46,640
felt that we could get the level
of control precise.

1244
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,760
You can with a, with a mouse
based or a joystick based, but

1245
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,720
we felt with the with the, with
the with the arm style

1246
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,240
controller or camera style
controller, it gave us the most

1247
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,960
fidelity to easily and, and not
only be able to track someone

1248
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,279
quickly, but be able to slow
down and do really nuanced stuff

1249
01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:09,520
as well.
Yeah, I I also think a little of

1250
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:13,359
that is generational.
That's what I was going to say.

1251
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:17,800
Like I think there's some sort
of nostalgia to calling follow

1252
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,479
spots to humans who are
operating those follow spots,

1253
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:22,359
right?
Yeah.

1254
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:27,359
So like humans, Humans that can
operate a controller, a manual

1255
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:32,800
controller versus a human
running an Xbox controller or a

1256
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,359
mouse or something versus a, you
know, you know, a Zack Tracker

1257
01:09:36,359 --> 01:09:39,920
Black Track system where they're
wearing a, a, a, a, a puck and

1258
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,319
it's following them that way.
You know, there's plus there's

1259
01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:45,479
pluses and minuses to all these
systems.

1260
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,439
You know, there's things that I
wish we could do that Zack

1261
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,200
Tracks and Black Tracks does.
There's things that I think we

1262
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,520
do way like, you know, Black
Tracks and Zack Tracks.

1263
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,240
You know what they can't do that
we can do.

1264
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:03,640
Roby or us even follow me can do
is where I'm following a person

1265
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,440
and our pop star and I'm going
to see that they're going to

1266
01:10:06,440 --> 01:10:08,160
pull somebody out of that
audience.

1267
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:11,400
I'm already anticipating slowing
down because I know they're

1268
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,360
getting to the edge of the stage
B.

1269
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,600
I'm already starting to iris
open because I know they're

1270
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,280
going to I need to open it up at
so I can grab that person that

1271
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,440
they're pulling up on the stage
with them instead, right.

1272
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,600
So there's like those those.
Take a while for AI to catch up

1273
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:25,720
to that.
Yeah, totally.

1274
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:27,800
Yeah, totally.
Well, wouldn't.

1275
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,600
Wouldn't the ideal solution be a
hybrid where you can like almost

1276
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,880
like flying an airplane, You can
put it on autopilot and go take

1277
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,240
a piss and then come back and
run your follow spot?

1278
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,280
Yeah, for sure.
And that's a little bit what

1279
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,920
we're working toward with our
new multi.

1280
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,280
So it's our new system is called
ground control multi.

1281
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,520
And like I said, we can link non
ground controls.

1282
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,840
It's based on a Mac, you know
Mac mini is running a piece of

1283
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:56,120
software.
What for us, the reason why

1284
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,760
we've gone this route and is
it's a high, it's what I would

1285
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:04,040
be I termined as a hybrid
between it's kind of taking the

1286
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,000
best of the Roby system, the
best of the, you know, the

1287
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,080
follow me system.
We've pulled a little bit from

1288
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,600
Black Tracks and Zach tracks
kind of crammed it all together

1289
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:14,280
and, and put it in a new
package.

1290
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,480
And, and, and we've, we've
discovered some stuff along the

1291
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:21,920
way that we've patented that
we've been able to patent and

1292
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,960
our patents are now we were
filed and all that.

1293
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:31,880
The key driver for us in all
these technologies is or I

1294
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:36,600
should, one of the main focus
points for us has always been

1295
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,600
ease of use.
I want to keep it simple.

1296
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:44,800
I want it to easily set up.
I want a typical user to be able

1297
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,160
to use it up.
I don't necessarily want someone

1298
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,520
highly specialized or an IT guru
to have to do it.

1299
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,520
I want it to make it as easy as
possible for people to use it.

1300
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,880
Because I believe that if it's
easy for people to use, more

1301
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:02,080
people will use it, right?
One of the issues when all these

1302
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,360
tracking systems has always been
calibration set up and

1303
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,280
calibration.
Because in order for all this

1304
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,480
tracking stuff to work properly,
we need to know where the lights

1305
01:12:10,480 --> 01:12:14,600
are in 3D space, right?
So one of the things that we

1306
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:19,160
have done with our ground
control multi system is we have

1307
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,720
figured out a way where we can
figure out where the lights are

1308
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:27,000
in 3D space based off of
focusing on 4 known reference

1309
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,680
points on the stage.
So we focus the lights on those

1310
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:33,560
reference points, we store them
and then the computer through an

1311
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,240
algorithm, an algorithm that we
have developed is able to

1312
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,920
extrapolate and figure out,
okay, if I if this light can

1313
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:45,160
hit, is has the pan tilt values,
has these pan tilt values at

1314
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,320
each one of these points.
Therefore the light has to be

1315
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,640
located X amount of feet, Y
amount of feet, Z amount of feet

1316
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:53,440
away from the target.
Yeah.

1317
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,760
So that's one of the and we've
patented that.

1318
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,560
The other thing that we've done
is all this calibration.

1319
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,960
We can do it from a lighting
console and we can do it in

1320
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,440
under 60 seconds, which is,
which is pretty phenomenal.

1321
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,360
Basically, I can use a lighting
console, I grab the lights, I

1322
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,160
focus them on my 4 points and I
can store it from the lighting

1323
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,840
console and the software will
figure all that out.

1324
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,120
Interesting.
For us that's been one of the

1325
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:22,040
main drivers of this software is
the speed and ease of setup and

1326
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,000
and to get a calibration.
We've actually put it on a few

1327
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:28,320
shows quietly that have used it.
We've learned a bunch of stuff.

1328
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:31,800
We're continuing to to improve
it upon it.

1329
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:35,080
At this point we're, we're
actively showing customers,

1330
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:38,880
we're actively demoing it.
You're going to see we're

1331
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,240
building the website and all the
documentation here.

1332
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,360
Hopefully end of the month, more
like middle of October is when

1333
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:49,280
that'll all be up and released
and all that's going to give us

1334
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:55,200
some some a lot of that work is
giving us the the is the the

1335
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,400
foundation to do a whole bunch
of other development work.

1336
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,800
You know, we have a three-year
plan for the multi software and

1337
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,160
you know some of the things
we've kind of talked about AIA

1338
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:08,200
little bit and we've talked a
little bit about.

1339
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,160
Well, I want to get into that.
Automating it so is.

1340
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,920
Ground control still basically
going to be a rental model or or

1341
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,600
is the intention to build a
product for sale?

1342
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:22,280
So we have, we've sold a bunch
of ground control systems, OK.

1343
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,080
And we're actively looking to
license it.

1344
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,800
So if someone would like to buy
it and, and sell it, we're, we

1345
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,520
have no problem.
And we're not looking for a

1346
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,440
pound of flesh to do that.
Yeah.

1347
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:35,360
You know, we're, we're, you
know, we realize it's a, it's a,

1348
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:39,280
it's a unique piece of
technology that has enabled

1349
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:43,920
designers and users to do things
that they previously hadn't been

1350
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,880
able to do.
And so we feel like we want to

1351
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,720
make that available to anybody
and everybody.

1352
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,080
And, and we've talked to a whole
bunch of different manufacturers

1353
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:53,840
about that.
Yeah, there's a couple that are

1354
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:56,720
interested and there's a couple
that are interested and said,

1355
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,280
you know what, we're interested,
but we're taking a different

1356
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,040
path, which is fine, you know,
but we're not.

1357
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:06,600
And again, we're not looking to
be egregious or, or punitive in

1358
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,480
any of the licensing that we do.
Yeah.

1359
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,960
But we and like you said, we do
already license it and along

1360
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:16,080
with a bunch of our other
patents, we license to a variety

1361
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,040
of manufacturers.
Yeah, you have.

1362
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,680
You have, I think I read it in
the intro, but you have 15

1363
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:23,320
patents now.
I do, yeah.

1364
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,440
That's pretty wild.
That's very cool.

1365
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,400
That puts you up there with the
Richard Bellevue's of the world

1366
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:31,080
on on.
I think he's probably got 60.

1367
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:31,800
He's.
Got way.

1368
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,400
I mean, Hen and Cunningham,
those guys have way more than

1369
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,160
I'll ever have.
Yeah, that's still 15.

1370
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:40,080
Is 15 more than I have?
You know, I don't have any

1371
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,440
patents.
You got 15, so I want one.

1372
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:48,000
But to me now to take this into
the outer space mode.

1373
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:53,880
So people talk about AI and
everyone is focused on AI in the

1374
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:57,240
console, replacing the designer
and replacing the operator and

1375
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:01,040
all that kind of stuff.
Me, I've had this concept

1376
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,920
recently, which is AI in the
light fixture.

1377
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,480
And like you're talking about
things like calibration, you

1378
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:12,520
know, why not just have Agps in
in the moving light?

1379
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,240
Why not have intelligence in the
moving light?

1380
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,800
So the light goes, OK, I'm here.
Where are you?

1381
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:19,680
Oh, you're right there.
Yeah, you're over here.

1382
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:21,640
OK, so that's awesome.
OK, so we're going to figure

1383
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,640
this out really quickly and
boom.

1384
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:28,480
And now the console is basically
just communicating with a really

1385
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:31,120
smart light that knows where it
is.

1386
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,920
It knows it's doing self
diagnostics all the time.

1387
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:40,560
It's it constantly knows its
state and it just seems to

1388
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:45,560
eliminate not the need for a
console, but the need for a lot

1389
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:49,000
more of sophistication in that
console because you're putting

1390
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,400
some of the sophistication in
the lights themselves, right?

1391
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:53,520
Sure.
That's you.

1392
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,400
May you bring an interesting
point for sure.

1393
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,240
I think there's AI think that is
an application.

1394
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,640
There's definitely an
application for AI in that for

1395
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:05,000
sure.
I you know, I I do not see AI

1396
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,160
replacing a designer.
I just like.

1397
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,240
It certainly could.
It certainly could, but it would

1398
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:15,400
be similar to AI replacing
songwriters and AI, you know,

1399
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:21,360
the creativity of AI is always
going to be somewhat vanilla.

1400
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:25,240
Yeah, You know, I I see AI like
you know, right out of the gate.

1401
01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:30,280
You know, I can see AI doing
like all all lights have that,

1402
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,560
you know, self, you know, self
mode, you know you know the

1403
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,880
disco mode sound to light, you
know, or light to or yes, sound

1404
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:40,160
to light mode, where it just
does its own thing.

1405
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,080
Totally CIAI in there doing
that.

1406
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:45,920
You know I'm in a club.
I get that.

1407
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,920
You know, I'm not happy about it
because I think that's, you

1408
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,720
know, it's, I think that's, you
know, there's a lot of designers

1409
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,680
that got their designers and
programmers that got start

1410
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,560
started in clubs.
So if in a, if AI goes in there,

1411
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,320
that's a route that may, that
may not be available to people

1412
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:06,640
into this industry.
So I have a little bit of a

1413
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:11,240
concern there on that front.
But the but at the end of the

1414
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:15,480
day, again, I think I think it
just the the human brain is

1415
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:17,600
amazing, right?
So I, I have a hard time

1416
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:21,440
believing that we can train it
good enough to, to understand

1417
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:25,320
the nuances of a song and to
light it appropriately and, and

1418
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:28,600
to, to react to the, the, the
vibe in the room and to the

1419
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,680
audience and stuff.
Yeah, right, yeah.

1420
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:35,640
And you know, heavy side from me
because I, I disagree that that

1421
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,360
AI won't be able to get there
because it's already, it's

1422
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,920
already surpassed that with
things like medicine and and law

1423
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:47,040
and like really, really more
complicated tasks than designing

1424
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:48,560
a light show or programming a
light.

1425
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:52,160
Show but the but but in those
applications, I think you know,

1426
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:56,280
you, you can give it hard data.
It's I think it's difficult for

1427
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:59,160
AI.
There's not a good way to

1428
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:02,160
currently, there's not a good
way to look at the room and what

1429
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:03,920
is what is everyone feeling in
the room?

1430
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,320
Or you know what, how are people
reacting to a particular song?

1431
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,000
You know, there's where.
Where's the IO into the?

1432
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,720
There is there is.
So, you know, like if everyone's

1433
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:18,040
aura ring an Apple Watch and
iPhone and whatever else is

1434
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:23,320
reading their heart rate and
their mood and their all kinds

1435
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:25,600
of other things, because I mean,
this is where the rest of the

1436
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:27,960
world is going.
Like everything is connected to

1437
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:31,480
everything else, right?
So, but I'm not advocating for

1438
01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:33,760
it.
I'm just saying if that were the

1439
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:37,360
intention and that were the
desired result is that we got to

1440
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,360
get rid of these damn lighting
designers.

1441
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:43,400
I think it could be done.
And, and I think the technology

1442
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:49,400
is either very close already or,
or will be incredibly soon.

1443
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:54,120
But you know, as fast as these
things are are advancing right

1444
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:59,200
now and these things being AI
models and whatever, you know,

1445
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:03,200
we're, we're a very short time
from AI being smarter than

1446
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,240
humans.
And so I agree with you.

1447
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,480
So, you know, it's just about
how those things where the

1448
01:20:09,480 --> 01:20:12,240
language model comes from and
how they're built and how

1449
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:14,200
they're prompted and all of
those types of things.

1450
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:18,760
And so if an artist sits in a
room with with an iPhone and

1451
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,480
records into the iPhone for two
hours, how he wants the show to

1452
01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:25,840
look and feel and what his
feelings are and his emotions

1453
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,920
are and how he wants the
audience to perceive it.

1454
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:32,760
And, you know, a little bit of
how Beyoncé did her last tour

1455
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:37,160
and a little bit of how, you
know, Prince did a tour in 1988

1456
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,840
and it had this vibe to it.
And, you know, and you sprinkle

1457
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:46,080
a lot of that shit in and, yeah,
could it replace a lighting

1458
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:47,400
designer?
I think so.

1459
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:50,600
You know, could, could you get
rid of front of house engineers,

1460
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,880
audio engineers?
I think you could, you know, but

1461
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,920
do we want to?
No, I don't think the desire is

1462
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,520
there to do that for anyone in
our industry.

1463
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:01,880
I don't even think the artists,
I think they want to be able to

1464
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:05,280
talk to a human and say, you
know, here's what I want.

1465
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,880
So to me, it's not the obvious
place to go with AI.

1466
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:11,400
I think the obvious place to go
is into the lights, to be able

1467
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,440
to do smarter things with those
lights, for the lights to know

1468
01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:18,440
where they're at, and to make it
simpler to program a show.

1469
01:21:18,440 --> 01:21:20,440
Not to design the show, but to
program it.

1470
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:24,360
I want AI.
What I want AI to do is to make

1471
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:29,280
the back end easier and faster
because to execute a show,

1472
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,840
there's a ton of paperwork that
has to happen.

1473
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:34,120
I have to put the build the
equipment list.

1474
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,400
I have to figure out addressing.
I have to figure out, you know,

1475
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,520
what universes need to go where,
how's the channeling going.

1476
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:42,880
Then you know, I got to put all
that in the paperwork.

1477
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:45,560
And then I have to, you know,
have magic sheets.

1478
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,600
I might have excel sheet and
then I have to go to get in the

1479
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,680
shop and I have to go into
address and modes and all that

1480
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:56,720
stuff.
To me that is all just busy work

1481
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,040
that that AI could could do for
us.

1482
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,560
You know, that's where I've
started using AI is like I'm

1483
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:05,880
trying to address a bunch of
stuff.

1484
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:10,360
I'm like, all right, AII have an
Ayrton Domino and I have 20

1485
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:13,120
Ayrton dominoes and 100 BL 36
hundredths.

1486
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:19,160
And what are my DMX address I'm
going to be used for and have

1487
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,440
it?
I don't run these modes and it

1488
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:24,240
just spits out all that stuff.
And is that something you built?

1489
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:27,880
Did you build your own model to
do that or was there a tool out

1490
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:30,360
there already?
We built something, we didn't

1491
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:31,880
plan it around.
It's not perfect.

1492
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:37,880
Yeah, trying to get it
integrated into really what I

1493
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:41,000
want to be able to do is have it
calculate all that and dump it

1494
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:44,560
into the console and then
address all my nodes and stuff

1495
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:45,920
correctly.
Yeah.

1496
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:50,640
That to me is like that would
be, you know, pick, you know, be

1497
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:54,480
able to give them a copy of a
plot and say, OK, what is the

1498
01:22:54,480 --> 01:22:57,120
cable layout going to be?
Yeah, how do I cable all this

1499
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:58,760
up?
Yeah, yeah, You know, be able to

1500
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,040
speed that up, make me more
efficient.

1501
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:05,240
I completely agree with you, but
I mean, even just again, GPS's

1502
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,920
inside moving lights that, you
know, you got 10 or $12,000

1503
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:14,400
fixtures here, like to put a $10
GPS chip inside it and have a

1504
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,840
battery backup on it and all
kinds of stuff like that.

1505
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,560
RFID tags are great, but how
about I'm sitting here designing

1506
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,240
a show and I wanna know exactly
how many fixtures I've got cuz

1507
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:26,840
it needs to load out this
afternoon and I need to know

1508
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:30,880
where they are and how many
there are and what their status

1509
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,760
is like, do they need repair for
example?

1510
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,200
So I think there's more AI going
to go into the rental software

1511
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,880
that everyone uses that shops
use then is going to go into the

1512
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:44,560
consoles.
And there's certainly things

1513
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:50,120
like, let's face it, we already
have all of the, the God, my

1514
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,320
mind is fried this morning.
But what's the stuff in the

1515
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:56,320
consoles where you can like
macros and stuff like that?

1516
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,480
You know, we've already got all
of those things which are

1517
01:23:59,480 --> 01:24:03,200
basically very low level AI as
it as it is.

1518
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:06,320
So, you know, we're going to
have more of that stuff where I

1519
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:10,360
think guys like Cosmo are
spending less time sitting and

1520
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:14,840
putting repetitive lines of code
into the console and more time

1521
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:18,360
doing things that he actually
enjoys doing in that that match

1522
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:22,280
his his expertise.
You know, well, and, you know, I

1523
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,920
think the, the shows have gotten
significantly larger.

1524
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:27,720
Yeah.
And more complex.

1525
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,520
So if it means that we can do
bigger shows easier, I, I, you

1526
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:34,880
know, whether it's programming,
whether it's setting it up

1527
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,320
safer, Yeah, I think there's
huge uses there for it.

1528
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:39,880
For it there.
Yeah.

1529
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,480
You know, we'll, we'll see.
I think it's, it's, it's common

1530
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,320
whether we like it or not.
No, no, it is.

1531
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,800
It is, but it's just funny.
I love to have this conversation

1532
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,880
because last year at LDI,
everybody was panicking because

1533
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,320
there was a small control
company who had a sign on their

1534
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:58,800
booth saying you don't need a
lighting designer or something

1535
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,920
like that, right?
And that hit home real quickly

1536
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:07,160
and had a very rapid response
from the design community.

1537
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,520
And, you know, they had to back
pedal and say, no, no, no, we're

1538
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,480
not trying to replace you.
But you know, they have an

1539
01:25:13,480 --> 01:25:16,800
autopilot mode basically where
you can walk away from the DJ

1540
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,240
booth and go take a leak and put
it on autopilot and the lights

1541
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:22,280
will do really cool stuff
without you there.

1542
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,120
And does that mean they never
want somebody programming or

1543
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:28,240
designing or whatever?
No, I don't think so.

1544
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:32,640
You know, and I, I feel like
I've been around you and I've

1545
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:34,200
been around long enough now
where?

1546
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:39,200
Yeah, like each technology
evolution that we've had in this

1547
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:41,920
business there, we've always
had.

1548
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:43,880
The sky is falling.
Oh, these are going to be, you

1549
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:45,760
know, we'll never use
conventional lights again now

1550
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,360
that we have moving lights.
Yeah.

1551
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,560
You know, now that we have LEDs,
we'll never use incandescent

1552
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,320
again, and that is not proven to
eat it.

1553
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:55,280
Right.
Yeah, It's so true.

1554
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:57,720
It's so true.
I mean, you know, again, if if

1555
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,640
you would have asked what's the
Henry Ford saying?

1556
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,480
You know, if you asked people
what they want, they'd say

1557
01:26:03,480 --> 01:26:05,760
faster horses or something like
that, right.

1558
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,000
And Steve Jobs said the same
thing.

1559
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:11,720
You know, it was like you you
can't always ask people what

1560
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:13,440
they want because most of the
time they don't know.

1561
01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:15,200
You have to show them.
You have to show them what they

1562
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:16,960
want.
A phone without a keyboard on

1563
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:18,480
it.
Like I was one of the guys who

1564
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:22,920
went, I ain't giving up my
BlackBerry and yet I had the

1565
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,800
first iPhone and I've had
everyone since then so.

1566
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,600
But yet you can still get a
keyboard for it if you needed.

1567
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:32,800
To well exactly and I've never
wanted one ever since cuz they

1568
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,400
replaced it really well.
Yeah, we don't seem to get rid

1569
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:39,280
of anything in our business.
It's always, yeah, still, still

1570
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:41,120
hanging, Lekos.
Yeah, they're.

1571
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:42,560
Like it or not.
Yeah.

1572
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,360
Well, I mean, I think there's a,
there's a point of diminishing

1573
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:49,040
return on that where, you know,
it's like, I hate to use the

1574
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,920
example of Huntley Christie, but
Huntley Christie hung on to

1575
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,080
Intela Beams longer than anybody
else did.

1576
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:58,000
He hung on to Martin Pals, God
forbid, longer than anybody else

1577
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,360
did.
And when I talked to Huntley

1578
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:05,960
about that, he very unashamedly
says they're still profitable.

1579
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:08,960
You know, all of those Intelli
beams were still out being

1580
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:11,040
rented every week.
So why would I get rid of them?

1581
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:14,280
You know, I can sell them for
1000 bucks or I can keep renting

1582
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:16,320
them for 200 a week.
Why would I bother?

1583
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:20,840
So I get that point.
But you know what it costs to

1584
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:24,640
maintain those fixtures, to
store those fixtures, to count

1585
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,560
them to all of the different
things, all the touches you have

1586
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:30,080
to have on those fixtures.
And if you could replace it with

1587
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,320
an LED fixture where you don't
have to touch it, yeah, you're

1588
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:37,160
probably further ahead.
So, yeah, so we covered ground

1589
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:40,520
support, we covered a little bit
of AI already.

1590
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,320
God, we're getting through this
stuff fast.

1591
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,800
We're knocking them down.
We're lining them up and

1592
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:46,760
knocking them down.
What are what are some other

1593
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:50,240
areas of innovation like?
Let's get away from the moving

1594
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:51,600
light.
Let's get away from follow

1595
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:55,920
spots.
What are some other either areas

1596
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:59,160
that you see lacking innovation
where they're a little slower to

1597
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,240
innovate?
Like I think follow spots was

1598
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:06,720
one of those that really needed
some fixing, but what are some

1599
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:08,920
other areas that you see?
Infrastructure.

1600
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:11,440
Really.
Big time.

1601
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:17,000
So I, I think and I, I don't
want to be doom and gloom here,

1602
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,480
but I do think that we're, you
know, in Europe, they've done a

1603
01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:23,160
really good job, you know, as
far as their Power Distribution

1604
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,680
is concerned, right?
They're 240 Volt face neutral.

1605
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:30,080
Everything over there has RC DS
residual current device, you

1606
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:33,600
know, so if they get any leakage
or anything like that, trips the

1607
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,600
trips the breaker protects the
equipment, protects the

1608
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:39,800
individual Here in North
America, you know, we have

1609
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:41,880
something similar ground fault
protection.

1610
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:44,480
We have very little Power
Distribution here in North

1611
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:48,320
America with ground fault
protection built in portable,

1612
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:53,000
you know, temporary power distro
with GFI GFCI in it.

1613
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:58,960
Yet we're doing more and more
shows with the IP65 year outside

1614
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:03,200
and the the Breakers don't have
GFCI in it, they don't have RCD,

1615
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:06,960
they don't have anything.
Part of that has been because of

1616
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:11,200
the cost.
You know, a GFCI distro is

1617
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:14,600
easily two or three times the
cost of just a conventional

1618
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:18,360
distro.
And part of it is, you know,

1619
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:22,400
there weren't, you know, we
didn't have two, two pole

1620
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:26,360
Breakers that could, that could
break, that could handle two O 8

1621
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:29,360
and had GFCI built into it or
RCBS or whatever you want,

1622
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:31,280
whatever terminology you want to
do.

1623
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,680
You know, the National Electric
Code, I think this past year has

1624
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:38,680
included some language about
having about that now.

1625
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,680
And so a lot of the distro
manufacturers I think are

1626
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,200
starting to look at that and
figure it out.

1627
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:46,960
I know Disney has been a
proponent of that.

1628
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:51,640
We've been asking about that
like it's a matter of time.

1629
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:54,800
Someone's going to get injured.
And I don't want to be doom and

1630
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:57,080
gloom about it, but it's a fact
of fact of life.

1631
01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:01,200
That's one area that I think
we've got to as an industry,

1632
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:05,080
we've got to get going is get
get some of that protection into

1633
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:07,240
the racks.
Yeah, I've, I've talked a lot.

1634
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:09,680
You probably know Richard
Kadina, I've talked a lot with

1635
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:13,000
Richard about that topic, you
know, where, you know, singers

1636
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,440
are getting shocked from
microphones and things like

1637
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:18,320
that.
And he's obviously very, very

1638
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,200
passionate about it and is
constantly running around

1639
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:23,280
coaching and teaching people
about it.

1640
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:26,720
But again, yeah, that's got to
come down to the manufacturers

1641
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:28,800
creating product and and pushing
the envelope.

1642
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:32,800
Well, and also standards.
Yeah, well, standards and costs,

1643
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:35,400
I think the, the cost is finally
coming down.

1644
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:38,120
We're starting to see the
standards catch up a little bit.

1645
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:40,960
So it's A and you know, I've
started, you know, I've talked

1646
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:43,680
to a couple different, you know,
some of the big distribution

1647
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:47,360
like motion and motion labs,
Lex, a couple of them said

1648
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:51,600
they've started doing some
distro with, with GFCI built

1649
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:52,600
into it.
That's good.

1650
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:54,120
So it's, it's a matter of time
there.

1651
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,520
So, you know, that's one area I
think that is in dire need of

1652
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,680
innovation.
The other side is, you know,

1653
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:03,440
with, with, you know, part of
that distro side is we're

1654
01:31:03,440 --> 01:31:06,720
seeing, you know, with
conventionals, we saw, you know,

1655
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:11,000
you can see some pretty big
current swings depending upon,

1656
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,680
you know, OK, I grabbed all
these conventional lights,

1657
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,480
incandescent conventional
lights, and they all happen to

1658
01:31:16,480 --> 01:31:20,240
be on one particular phase.
So, you know, I hit the bump

1659
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,320
button.
Now I have a, all of a sudden a

1660
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:26,760
huge, huge current on the on,
not only the on the hot, but on

1661
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:30,200
the neutral as well.
We're back to that with LED

1662
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:32,520
really where well because you
think about.

1663
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:32,800
It.
Yeah.

1664
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:34,320
Because they're on.
Off, yeah.

1665
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:36,120
Yeah, on and off.
So we're starting to see the

1666
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:40,040
current swings again, you know,
and you know, we're coming up on

1667
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:43,200
wattage on the LED.
So we're seeing some, you know,

1668
01:31:43,480 --> 01:31:46,840
you know, power monitoring is a
thing that it's becoming.

1669
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:50,400
Never thought about that.
Downside of LED fixtures because

1670
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:55,320
it's been all upside from a
standpoint of, you know, like I

1671
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:58,880
remember talking to Huddleston
at one point about how a lot of

1672
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:02,160
venues now are really insisting
upon LED fixtures.

1673
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,440
Because when you when you put
the rig in at 11:00 in the

1674
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:09,880
morning or whatever arc lamps
are on from then until 11:00 at

1675
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:12,440
night, they don't get shut off
at all throughout the day.

1676
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:14,680
Whereas LE DS are only on when
you need them.

1677
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:17,840
So that the amount of
electricity being used in the

1678
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:22,280
venue is so much lower with LED
obviously, but I never thought

1679
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:25,840
of that on off problem.
Yeah, so just having ability to

1680
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:29,080
look at the power and have and
understand what's going on, what

1681
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:32,400
what your neutral, what what any
of your amperage is on any we we

1682
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,280
have that ability now.
But I think power monitoring is

1683
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:38,200
going to become is becoming more
of a thing for sure.

1684
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:43,040
And then, you know, on the
control side, I think we're, you

1685
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:48,840
know, we're starting to see
pretty some more development on

1686
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:52,400
streaming ACN and we're seeing
ACN move last mile to the

1687
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,000
fixture side of things.
So now we're running more

1688
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:59,280
network to the fixtures.
To your point about AI, So I

1689
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:04,640
think that's a big area that
that is ripe for innovation.

1690
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:08,600
You know, and we, we talk about
everyone's like, oh, we're going

1691
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:13,800
to put AI or we want, we want
network to the, to the lights

1692
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:18,960
last mile to the trust, right?
That's not, it's not as cut and

1693
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,680
dry as people think it is
because, you know, often times

1694
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:26,120
you need cable brakes and, you
know, having a break in an

1695
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:29,720
Ethernet cable is not ideal
that, that can cause issues in a

1696
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,880
network, right.
So thinking that through a

1697
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:36,800
little bit and having the tool,
diagnostic tools to troubleshoot

1698
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:40,640
some of these network problems.
You know, city theatricals has

1699
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:42,960
got their new DMX tack coming
out.

1700
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:46,320
TM BS got their their protest or
whatever it's called.

1701
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,480
All have network capability.
Those are all area in the

1702
01:33:50,480 --> 01:33:56,880
switches like, you know, Luminex
pathway, ELC and tech, all those

1703
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:01,360
guys, even Netron, even the Onyx
guys relation I should say.

1704
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:05,520
And even you know, Showbay has
done stuff.

1705
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,600
We're seeing multiple
manufacturers starting to

1706
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:12,720
develop more, you know, more
network, you know, gateways, you

1707
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,560
know, nodes and gateways and
switches and, Yeah.

1708
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,400
And starting to think about how
we network all that stuff

1709
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:21,920
together and, and how we control
it and how we make it easy to

1710
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:23,480
troubleshoot for people.
Yeah.

1711
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:26,400
What about is that that's?
Been one of the barriers to

1712
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:27,720
entry I think.
Yeah.

1713
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:32,440
Is, is there any push to go?
Like I always think that

1714
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:38,200
wireless seems to be the future,
not just wireless control, but

1715
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:41,640
wireless power, you know, where,
where you're not running all of

1716
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:45,080
these because that to me just
seems archaic, like the fact

1717
01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:46,920
that we have to run cable to
every light.

1718
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:51,920
Do you see that there's going to
be any innovation there?

1719
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,120
Sure.
Absolutely, Yeah.

1720
01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:57,760
Battery light batteries on
fixtures become a thing now and

1721
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:01,240
wireless charging.
That's a big thing for as well

1722
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,920
how we get power to this stuff.
Poe wireless, whatever it is,

1723
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:10,320
that's that is a thing for sure.
I also think that, you know,

1724
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:14,280
wireless Comm in general, it's
not going away, but it's that

1725
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:21,160
the spectrum is becoming more
and more crowded and I I'm we

1726
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:24,120
use a wireless all the time.
You know, it has its place.

1727
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:28,960
I'm I don't believe it's a
silver bullet and just because

1728
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:33,360
and I have a different point of
view than most people in that I

1729
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:37,440
actually was doing a job in New
York City in Times Square.

1730
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:42,840
I my control was on the side of
the street and we were driving

1731
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:48,200
some lights that were in middle
of Times Square and in we lost

1732
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:51,160
day of show.
I lost all calm, like all

1733
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:52,680
wireless was down.
Like what the hell?

1734
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:55,720
And then I noticed that the
audio guys were having similar

1735
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:58,280
problems like the in ears were
out, the wireless mics were out.

1736
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:03,640
What the Hell's going on?
Long story short, it was this

1737
01:36:03,640 --> 01:36:10,120
was just post 911 and I think
the vice president or something

1738
01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:11,840
was in the area or coming
through to the event or

1739
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,280
whatever.
Secret Service was in charge of

1740
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:16,760
of security and they turned on a
jammer.

1741
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:19,080
Yeah, the kill jammed.
Yeah.

1742
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,160
Yep, killed all.
I mean.

1743
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:23,560
I mean, I literally turned the
Breakers off and I went to the

1744
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:25,560
bar.
I've heard that before.

1745
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:27,520
Yeah, I've heard that same
problem before.

1746
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:28,200
That's crazy.
You.

1747
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:32,840
Know I'm a little leery about
like like if it's show critical

1748
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:35,680
run a wire.
Yeah, I'm going to send you a

1749
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:38,960
document somebody sent me
because I, I had somebody on the

1750
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:42,400
podcast recently and we were
talking about some wireless

1751
01:36:42,480 --> 01:36:46,200
audio stuff that they've been
doing, but they did a, a very

1752
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:52,880
remarkably simple but smart
Wi-Fi control thing.

1753
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:56,160
I'll, I'll send you the document
and just see what you think

1754
01:36:56,160 --> 01:36:57,280
about it.
I don't know.

1755
01:36:57,280 --> 01:37:00,240
I don't know how interesting it
is or or not, because I'm not

1756
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:03,520
smart enough to know, but it
sure seems smart, you know?

1757
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:05,880
And I just don't know if it
scales which.

1758
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,600
Is always the audio guys and the
video guys have really been at

1759
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:12,560
the forefront of the wireless
side of things just because of

1760
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:15,480
the nature of what their, you
know, the microphones and ears,

1761
01:37:15,480 --> 01:37:19,640
the cameras and stuff for sure,
they've really been at the

1762
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:21,440
forefront of.
That I know Sensitizer just came

1763
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:24,560
out with some new tech.
I think it's like a 64 channel.

1764
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:28,640
I don't even know what's so cool
about it, but I know everybody's

1765
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:30,360
talking about it and going this
thing's it.

1766
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:33,600
It's this is, we've been waiting
so long for this so.

1767
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:37,040
I got to figure out, I used, I
did a Super Bowl halftime show

1768
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:40,800
where we used some wireless DMX
in the halftime show.

1769
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:43,680
Yeah.
And that the, the, that's a

1770
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:48,200
unique event into itself, right?
And there's a whole wireless

1771
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:51,760
coordination team.
So yeah, I had him on the

1772
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:53,280
podcast.
I had him on, right.

1773
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:56,200
If it's the same company, yeah,
they do the Super Bowl every

1774
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:57,480
year and I had them on the
podcast.

1775
01:37:57,480 --> 01:37:59,840
It's pretty crazy.
I mean, that's what it's come

1776
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:03,400
down to is you got to get
somebody in charge of the whole

1777
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:06,040
thing and pull all the parties
into the same room and say, OK,

1778
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:07,080
what do you need?
What do you need?

1779
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:08,040
What do you need?
What do you need?

1780
01:38:08,440 --> 01:38:11,440
And they take care of everybody,
even just, even just headsets,

1781
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:13,440
you know?
Can become and they were so

1782
01:38:13,480 --> 01:38:17,800
adamant with me they're like you
cannot turn this on until 2

1783
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:21,000
minutes into the halftime
because you're you're on the

1784
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:23,880
you're apparently I was
overlapping the same frequencies

1785
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:29,160
that the wireless that the ref
the referee and their and their

1786
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:33,120
instant you know VAR system was.
Running.

1787
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:35,080
Oh my God.
I was like, Oh my God.

1788
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:36,480
Flag you're whispering in your
ear.

1789
01:38:36,480 --> 01:38:37,840
Throw a flag.
And throw it.

1790
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:41,800
Now throw a flag.
It was crazy, but you know, it's

1791
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:45,600
just like that environment is
just really difficult to operate

1792
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:46,200
in.
Yeah.

1793
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:48,440
So I've always like totally
great.

1794
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:51,560
I think wireless has its place,
but it's not, it's not a silver

1795
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:52,720
bullet.
I understand.

1796
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:56,920
I think it is.
Yeah, you sent you sent back

1797
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:00,440
some notes to Sarah before the
podcast, and one of the things I

1798
01:39:00,440 --> 01:39:03,360
thought was pretty funny where
you said four out of three

1799
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:06,360
people can't count.
Yes.

1800
01:39:06,480 --> 01:39:11,760
What's behind that sentiment?
Well, so that actually goes to.

1801
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:17,000
So I do a lot of drawings, like
network drawings, you know, how

1802
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:19,880
we configure shows and stuff
like that, right?

1803
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:25,840
So that that specific thing
evolved out of the network

1804
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:29,440
drawing is that it's a little
bit of the brown M&M.

1805
01:39:29,440 --> 01:39:31,600
Like that's how I know you read
that.

1806
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:34,600
You know, I'll put a couple
little tidbits in the drawing,

1807
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:38,240
like in the notes section of the
drawing and you know, something

1808
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:40,360
like that or what's another one
I if you don't get.

1809
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:42,040
Back you know they're not paying
attention.

1810
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:43,080
Yeah, they haven't read it,
right.

1811
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,240
Yeah, You know, don't cook bacon
naked.

1812
01:39:45,320 --> 01:39:48,480
That's that's another one that
I've put in there that's things

1813
01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:50,280
like that, things of that
nature, right.

1814
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:51,200
So.
That's funny.

1815
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:56,040
That's why I put that in there,
just to see if people looked at

1816
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:57,440
it and look at that you looked
at it.

1817
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:00,920
Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
What does your day look like?

1818
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:04,520
Like are you, are you going from
meetings with manufacturers to

1819
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:07,960
meetings with your internal team
to meetings with a a show that's

1820
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:12,080
out already to like, is that
sort of what your day?

1821
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:14,240
Yeah.
So like like today, like today,

1822
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:19,080
Well, yesterday for instance, I
met with I had AI had to do

1823
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:21,520
training for a customer who
didn't know how to use piece of

1824
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:23,320
equipment.
So I did the customer training.

1825
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:28,240
I had to do some budgeting stuff
for, for PRG, for upcoming for

1826
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:33,400
2025.
Yeah, I had, I had a meeting

1827
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:36,280
with a manufacturer on a new
product that they're working on

1828
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:39,200
a control system or a control
for the product.

1829
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:42,960
So we were having some
conversations about DMX maps and

1830
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:47,160
stuff like that.
Yeah, I had to do drawings for a

1831
01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:49,480
a upcoming show, just the
network settings for that.

1832
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:54,480
Yeah.
And then then last night, I was

1833
01:40:54,480 --> 01:40:56,920
in the parking lot, you know,
with the Genie lift and some

1834
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:00,000
lights in the parking lot doing
some testing because I needed to

1835
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:03,280
test our ground control system
at a stadium throws.

1836
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:06,000
So we're throwing 350 feet out
in our parking lot.

1837
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:08,360
Yeah.
So that was that was my day

1838
01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:10,440
yesterday.
Yeah, that's got to be important

1839
01:41:10,440 --> 01:41:13,680
because obviously on an Arena
Stage, you know, if you're out

1840
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:17,880
by like, you know, a half a
percent or whatever, it's maybe

1841
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,000
barely noticeable, if noticeable
at all.

1842
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:23,120
But when you get 300 feet away,
that's 10 feet, you know, you're

1843
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:25,960
now away from the performer.
You're not even lighting the

1844
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:27,360
performer anymore.
Yep.

1845
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:31,720
Oh, and then I had a bunch of,
you know, you know, there's

1846
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:35,040
people who work who I, I'm
responsible for.

1847
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:38,600
So I have to, you know, I had a
couple of employee meetings as

1848
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:40,880
well yesterday.
So like the whole, like, that

1849
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:43,200
was a little bit of everything.
Yeah.

1850
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:45,160
And that's probably the thing I
love most about.

1851
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:48,240
This business, no day is, no two
days are the same.

1852
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:50,360
Yeah, Yeah.
That's one of the cool things

1853
01:41:50,360 --> 01:41:53,200
about our industry in general.
It's like there's always things

1854
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:56,560
coming out of left field and
it's like, hi, what you want to

1855
01:41:56,560 --> 01:41:59,280
do what?
But you know, one thing I forgot

1856
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:04,840
to ask you when we were talking
about, but innovation is video

1857
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,960
walls, video screens.
And you know, I know you guys

1858
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:11,400
have done a lot on like wind
mitigation or whatever you want

1859
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:16,840
to call it, and you've created
special frames to, to minimize

1860
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:19,600
wind.
But doesn't the problem continue

1861
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:22,840
to get more complicated as the
pixel pitch comes down?

1862
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,600
You know, like now we're at
what, .9 or whatever.

1863
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:31,360
Yeah, obviously as the as the LE
DS get closer together, less

1864
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:35,120
wind is able to get through and
it becomes more solid and it

1865
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:38,480
becomes more of a problem for
these outdoor stages and stuff.

1866
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:42,080
And I've heard a specific
example and I won't say what

1867
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,800
band it is, but I've heard that
there's a tour out that put

1868
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:48,600
screens in front of their line
array system.

1869
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:53,120
And the screens are getting like
holes blown through the the LED

1870
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:58,160
panels and stuff because of how
powerful that sound is that's

1871
01:42:58,160 --> 01:43:01,400
hitting those screens.
And it's because the screens are

1872
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:06,200
they didn't consider wind
mitigation or whatever that

1873
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:09,520
topic is called when they were
putting those screens in front

1874
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:13,040
of those speakers.
So is that still a topic?

1875
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:17,120
The only thing safety related is
still a topic for sure.

1876
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:21,920
You know, I, I, I'm scared
shitless on a daily basis about,

1877
01:43:22,160 --> 01:43:25,120
you know, it's, it's that
classic case.

1878
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:27,480
Ignorance is bliss.
Yeah, when you know how the

1879
01:43:27,480 --> 01:43:31,720
sausage is made, Like, oh man,
that like, I'll get drawings

1880
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:34,960
come in and I'm like, oh man, I
can't, That's a big screen.

1881
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:37,520
We're outdoors.
Like, Oh yeah.

1882
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:40,480
Like let's, we need to have a
conversation about wind and,

1883
01:43:40,480 --> 01:43:42,560
and, and you know, I'm not a
rigger.

1884
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:45,160
I know enough about rigging to
be dangerous.

1885
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:47,920
You know, I've been a rigger.
I've been an up rigger a couple

1886
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:51,160
times, which I didn't enjoy, but
I know enough.

1887
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:53,320
But I don't classify myself to
be a rigger.

1888
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:58,120
But you know, those, I think
they have the riggers today have

1889
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:05,040
a much more complex and job than
we ever had 10 years, 10 years,

1890
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:07,360
even 10 years ago, yeah, to deal
with.

1891
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:10,840
And I think the LE DS are the
one of the big ones for sure.

1892
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:11,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

1893
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:15,520
But is there a point where like
I know that our industry thrives

1894
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:19,520
on, you know, if you can, if you
can think of it, we can create

1895
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:20,360
it, right?
Yeah.

1896
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:24,520
But is there a limit like,
because so far I haven't seen

1897
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:27,000
one.
You know, these these systems

1898
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:29,480
just keep getting bigger, and
all you got to do is go see.

1899
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:32,720
What are those Duhas guys
called?

1900
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:36,120
Oh, they're a German guys.
Rammstein.

1901
01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:39,080
Yeah, go see Rammstein.
It just keeps getting sillier.

1902
01:44:39,080 --> 01:44:41,800
You know, it's just like, holy
shit, you're gonna do what?

1903
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:45,240
And most of theirs is fire.
Fortunately, though, it's not as

1904
01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:48,040
much.
Video more technology Technology

1905
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:49,800
can help you.
You know, we now have wireless

1906
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:53,000
load cells.
You know the LED panels are

1907
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:55,920
getting stronger.
You know, yes, the pickle, the

1908
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:00,800
pixel pitch has gotten smaller
and that has led to increase in

1909
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:07,200
weight in wind issues.
But now that has, now we're

1910
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:10,360
seeing some new pixel technology
where the weight has come down,

1911
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:13,680
we're seeing it where it's
become much more resilient.

1912
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:17,480
So if it's more resilient, it
can handle higher wind loads.

1913
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:20,280
So, you know, we have better
chain motors.

1914
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:23,760
You know, we have single Reeve 1
tons now or two tons, which we

1915
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:26,640
didn't previously have.
Truss has gotten beefier.

1916
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:30,160
So they're, they're, it's all,
you know, better wind bracing,

1917
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,920
better understanding of the
safety criteria and what we have

1918
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:36,040
to do when there's a, when
there's an issue.

1919
01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:39,040
But does an audience member
really see the difference

1920
01:45:39,040 --> 01:45:42,960
between .9 and 3.9?
You know what I mean?

1921
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,680
Like, can't.
As an industry we say on outdoor

1922
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:48,000
shows we don't want to go below
3.9.

1923
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:50,640
Or whatever.
I don't, I don't think you see,

1924
01:45:51,400 --> 01:45:53,840
it's a viewing this it's a
viewing and cost thing, right?

1925
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:59,400
So yeah, yes, you could go to 1,
you know, .9, but the cost of

1926
01:45:59,400 --> 01:46:01,240
that, it's going to be
astronomical.

1927
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:05,080
And like someone that's for the
the first audience member is 40

1928
01:46:05,080 --> 01:46:06,280
feet away.
Yeah.

1929
01:46:06,280 --> 01:46:07,440
There's no sense in going.
Yeah.

1930
01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:10,480
There's no benefit.
Yeah, so most, most people, most

1931
01:46:10,480 --> 01:46:14,600
fans were able to were able to
talk them off that ledge and

1932
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:19,440
into the right product.
But we are seeing a mix of

1933
01:46:19,440 --> 01:46:21,240
products.
So like, OK, the stuff that's

1934
01:46:21,240 --> 01:46:23,880
closer to the audience is going
to be a higher resolution.

1935
01:46:24,160 --> 01:46:27,520
The stuff further away we're
also seeing, you know, 4K8K

1936
01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:30,000
content.
So that is driving some of the

1937
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:34,400
some of the that the the arms
race and pixel pitch.

1938
01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:36,920
Yeah, that.
Makes sense?

1939
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:41,680
Yeah, but like I said, the
techno, the for me, the issue

1940
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:43,720
wasn't win.
Yeah, win was an issue.

1941
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:48,920
My concern on the pixel pitch
was the product has been very

1942
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:56,360
fragile, damage gets damaged
easily, is not very robust or

1943
01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:58,520
has not been as robust as we
would like it.

1944
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:04,160
Yeah, that has led to.
So that's been problematic,

1945
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:05,840
right?
Well, I mean, at least with PRG

1946
01:47:05,840 --> 01:47:09,400
you're, you're buying, you know,
and I don't even know what brand

1947
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:12,640
you guys support as far as LED,
but whether it's Row or it's

1948
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:16,120
whoever you're buying, quality
product, you know, I know a lot

1949
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:22,920
of guys out there doing shows
with, you know, off brand, very

1950
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:28,080
inexpensive LED walls and that
stuff kind of scares me a little

1951
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:29,080
bit, you know?
Yeah.

1952
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:32,360
Yeah.
So, you know, so when we buy

1953
01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:35,280
product, that's one of the
things that we're looking at is,

1954
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:40,200
is the, you know, how easy is it
to set up, how robust is it, You

1955
01:47:40,440 --> 01:47:42,080
know, if it's going to get
rained on or are we going to

1956
01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:44,480
wind issues, What kind of
structure is behind it?

1957
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:47,040
What kind of structure is there
to fly it?

1958
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,640
What kind of structure is there
to do ground support is we have

1959
01:47:50,640 --> 01:47:53,760
a much better understanding than
we've ever had and the

1960
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:59,080
manufacturers have done a, you
know, in more cases than not,

1961
01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:01,440
the LED is the least of our
concern.

1962
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:05,120
It's the structure behind it and
how it's getting put.

1963
01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:06,240
Together.
Together, yeah.

1964
01:48:06,480 --> 01:48:08,640
It's becoming the deciding
factor for us.

1965
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:12,520
And you know, Rho rho is the 800
LB rho unilumen.

1966
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:15,200
But now you've got people like
you know, you've got absent out

1967
01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:17,320
there.
You've got race science and

1968
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:20,240
Aorto.
Race science and Aorto are have

1969
01:48:20,240 --> 01:48:25,400
been pushing a GOBLED glue on
board where it's all epoxied.

1970
01:48:25,440 --> 01:48:27,600
All the LE DS are epoxied in.
Oh, interesting.

1971
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:31,240
And and make it much more
resilient to like the daily

1972
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:34,560
handling and the setup.
So we're not seeing the the

1973
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:37,200
damage that we used to see in
those.

1974
01:48:37,240 --> 01:48:39,960
Really interesting.
The small, yeah, super, super

1975
01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:41,920
cool stuff.
And you know, Roe is doing

1976
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:44,640
something similar.
So you were seeing a lot of

1977
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:50,280
innovation there for sure, all
around making it more reliable,

1978
01:48:50,280 --> 01:48:53,920
easier to set up and more
structurally sound, whether

1979
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:57,120
you're flying or ground support.
Is all that decision making, is

1980
01:48:57,120 --> 01:49:00,720
that all centralized with PRG?
So in other words, like when you

1981
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:06,040
make a decision on what tiles
are the most safe, you know,

1982
01:49:06,160 --> 01:49:09,920
reliable, whatever, does that go
through the system and.

1983
01:49:10,040 --> 01:49:12,240
Yeah.
So generally everyone we have,

1984
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:17,160
we have product, we have
strategic asset people, yeah,

1985
01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:20,800
who are responsible for, we have
multiple actually.

1986
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,000
So that group actually reports
to me.

1987
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,240
Wow, that's.
Smart, it's called the ASG

1988
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:29,440
strategic.
It's an asset strategy group and

1989
01:49:29,440 --> 01:49:33,120
basically they're a line where
we have a lighting strategic

1990
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:37,280
asset person, we have a video,
we have an LED, we have a

1991
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:41,320
camera, we have a rigging and we
have an audio ones.

1992
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:45,960
And they're the ones that are
providing the, the technical

1993
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:48,240
knowledge and how all the stuff
gets put together.

1994
01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:51,400
And you know, OK, we need to
substitute X for Y.

1995
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:54,920
Here's, you know, they're the
ones that are, are interacting

1996
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:57,960
with the manufacturers, their
respective manufacturers and

1997
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:00,200
saying, Hey, this is a pain
point for us.

1998
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:03,000
I need you to develop this or
it'd be much better if you did

1999
01:50:03,160 --> 01:50:06,880
this instead.
But like a great, a great

2000
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:09,800
example is like, so the LED, the
guy that handles LED is a guy

2001
01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:13,440
named Troy Boudreaux.
Great guy, super, super

2002
01:50:13,440 --> 01:50:17,200
knowledgeable in LED.
He's not the only person in the

2003
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:19,680
company that has knowledge about
LED, right?

2004
01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:23,800
He's just the he's the kind of
person overseeing it, but he's

2005
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:26,360
not the he's not the end all be
all right.

2006
01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:29,720
Yeah.
So like he identifies technology

2007
01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:32,680
and tiles that we want to, that
he thinks that would be really

2008
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:35,720
great for us.
And what he does is, and we just

2009
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:39,480
did this is he contacts the
manufacturers, gets a bunch of

2010
01:50:39,480 --> 01:50:41,960
samples set in and then we do a
roadshow.

2011
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,640
We'll set it.
We set it up in LA, had a bunch

2012
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:46,600
of our employees out there look
at it.

2013
01:50:46,600 --> 01:50:50,040
Then we took it to to Secaucus
here, had a bunch of employees

2014
01:50:50,040 --> 01:50:52,040
look at it.
And then we've talked to a bunch

2015
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:54,600
of sales people and had them
look at it and give us the

2016
01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:58,000
feedback to make sure that we're
getting that multiple technical

2017
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:00,480
points of view are looking at
it, that multiple sales points

2018
01:51:00,480 --> 01:51:02,440
of view.
Like will this work for

2019
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:04,840
corporate and trade show?
Will this work for music?

2020
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:06,480
Will this work for TV?
Yeah.

2021
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:08,760
And understand that.
And so he'll gather all that

2022
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:11,600
information and, and based on
all that feedback, he's like,

2023
01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:14,920
hey, the feedback is that this
XY and Z products are the ones

2024
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:16,480
that we should be looking at and
investing in.

2025
01:51:16,480 --> 01:51:18,800
Cool.
And then we then then we work

2026
01:51:18,800 --> 01:51:21,800
with the finance team.
OK, let's talk about financing

2027
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:24,480
or let's talk about terms and.
Stuff doesn't make sense, Yeah.

2028
01:51:24,480 --> 01:51:27,440
So yeah, so we have.
Sounds like a cool gig, like

2029
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:30,080
lots of dinners.
Yeah, right.

2030
01:51:30,120 --> 01:51:31,920
Lots of.
Manufactured dinners right

2031
01:51:31,920 --> 01:51:33,880
there, I would expect.
But it's, it's really good in

2032
01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:36,400
that like you have these people
that, that head up each of these

2033
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:40,760
disciplines and they're, they're
aggregating everyone else under,

2034
01:51:40,760 --> 01:51:43,560
you know, all these, all these
other experts and people who

2035
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:46,320
have opinions.
Because what we have found is

2036
01:51:46,320 --> 01:51:48,360
just someone coming in here and
saying, Nope, this is the

2037
01:51:48,360 --> 01:51:51,200
product we're going to buy.
Doesn't work if you don't have

2038
01:51:51,200 --> 01:51:54,040
buy in from everybody, the
product won't be.

2039
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:55,720
Successful.
That's a really great approach

2040
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:57,720
that makes a lot of sense.
Like you're not just hard,

2041
01:51:57,720 --> 01:52:00,800
you're not you're not following
the trend necessarily.

2042
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:02,720
You're.
I mean, obviously at some point

2043
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:05,320
you have to pay attention to
what designers are speculating

2044
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:08,000
and stuff like that.
But when it comes down to LED

2045
01:52:08,040 --> 01:52:11,280
screens is a great example of
something that's relatively

2046
01:52:11,280 --> 01:52:13,960
ubiquitous.
Like, sure, everyone knows Row

2047
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:16,640
and row is the big name or
whatever, but at the end of the

2048
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:18,360
day, what am I seeing?
What's it look like?

2049
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:21,320
You know, I don't care what
brand name is on it necessarily,

2050
01:52:21,320 --> 01:52:21,640
right.
Yeah.

2051
01:52:22,440 --> 01:52:24,320
And we've got, you know, you
know, we've got to understand

2052
01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:25,600
like what do I have to drive
that?

2053
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:28,080
Is that Brompton processing?
Is that megapixel?

2054
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:31,080
Is it Novastar?
You know, how much other do we

2055
01:52:31,240 --> 01:52:32,800
of that processing in our
inventory?

2056
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:35,480
Do we have what makes the most
sense to drive all this?

2057
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:37,120
You know, what are we going to
replace it?

2058
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:39,240
Like, you know, do we have
product that's nine years old

2059
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:41,680
that we need to get rid of?
You know that that something's

2060
01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:46,040
going to replace, you know, you
know, we try to we try to buy

2061
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:48,880
product that is that is multi
market.

2062
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:52,520
So it's not just TV use or music
use or theater use.

2063
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:54,760
We want something that can be
used in a wide variety of

2064
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:57,560
markets.
We try to buy product that

2065
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:01,920
infrastructure wise that we
have, you know, it's not so

2066
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:04,880
unique that that I have to have
this special widget to drive it.

2067
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:06,600
I want to be able to use
equipment that we have on the

2068
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:10,320
shelf to configure.
And then like specific to tile,

2069
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:14,960
we're really looking at the
structure, what it takes to load

2070
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:18,640
it in, load it out and configure
it and stuff on a daily basis.

2071
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:20,840
Yeah, it's really important for
us.

2072
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:22,600
Yeah.
No, that makes a lot of sense.

2073
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:28,720
So what do you think next year
looks like more of the same or

2074
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:35,200
like, I've had people, you know,
both within PRG and outside of

2075
01:53:35,200 --> 01:53:37,960
PRG and all kinds of other
companies too, tell me, you

2076
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:41,360
know, next year is the biggest
year they've ever seen as far as

2077
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:44,160
their pipeline is right now.
And then I've had other people

2078
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:47,120
go, oh, fuck, you know, next
year is scary.

2079
01:53:47,120 --> 01:53:50,840
I don't know.
I think so.

2080
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:54,120
None of this has played out the
way any of us ever.

2081
01:53:54,160 --> 01:53:58,240
Certainly none of us anticipated
COVID or constantly in the in

2082
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:01,440
the in the post COVID world has
not played out like any of us

2083
01:54:01,440 --> 01:54:04,880
could have predicted.
Yeah, I, I, my personal belief

2084
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:07,440
is we need to get through this
election cycle.

2085
01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:10,640
Let that settle in.
Whatever happens with the

2086
01:54:10,640 --> 01:54:13,760
election happens.
It's a known quantity now.

2087
01:54:14,040 --> 01:54:18,400
I think the economy will settle
after the election as well.

2088
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:21,840
And I think as a result, I think
I feel like we're going to be

2089
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:24,280
busy.
I feel like I think we're going

2090
01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:27,080
to see an uptick in work on the
corporate side of things because

2091
01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:29,880
I think a lot of corporations
have been holding back because

2092
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:31,200
there's just too much
uncertainty.

2093
01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:32,080
Right?
Yeah, I agree on.

2094
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:33,320
So I think you're going to see
more of that.

2095
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:36,560
I think touring is still going
to continue to be a hotbed.

2096
01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:38,360
I mean, that's how they make
their music.

2097
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:41,600
So I don't see, I don't see that
being a downtick.

2098
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:44,480
I think I think we're going to
see a little bit of a rebound in

2099
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:46,000
TV.
You know, we had the writers

2100
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:48,760
strike and then, you know,
they've been negotiating the

2101
01:54:48,760 --> 01:54:51,920
Aussie strike.
I think that I think I don't,

2102
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:54,440
well, they haven't struck, but I
think they've, I think a lot of

2103
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:57,840
the TV producers and movie
producers have been withholding

2104
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:00,400
doing stuff because of
uncertainty there.

2105
01:55:01,480 --> 01:55:03,640
So I think that's all supposed
to be settled here by the end of

2106
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:07,920
the year.
So, you know, so corporate work,

2107
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:13,080
TV work, music work I think is
all I think is all looking to be

2108
01:55:13,080 --> 01:55:15,440
an uptick.
Yeah, I mean, you talk about TV

2109
01:55:15,440 --> 01:55:17,000
and movies.
It's a, it's an interesting

2110
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:20,720
topic because I had, I don't
know if you know Glenn from AED

2111
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:22,080
in Europe.
Yeah.

2112
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:24,880
So I had Glenn on the podcast a
couple months ago and we talked

2113
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:31,920
quite a bit about AI and he said
AI is obviously going to have a

2114
01:55:31,920 --> 01:55:36,960
significant impact on how movies
are made and, or whether movies

2115
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:41,080
are made in some cases.
And he said the problem that he

2116
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:44,320
sees coming with AI isn't that
they're going to make shitty

2117
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:47,320
movies, it's that they're all
going to be really good and

2118
01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:49,320
they're just going to hit this
flat plateau.

2119
01:55:49,480 --> 01:55:52,280
Everything's going to be right
here, you know, sort of where

2120
01:55:52,280 --> 01:55:53,840
we're at moving lights right
now.

2121
01:55:53,840 --> 01:55:56,240
You know, everything's right
here.

2122
01:55:56,240 --> 01:55:57,600
There's not a lot that's below
it.

2123
01:55:57,600 --> 01:55:59,160
There's not a lot that's above
it.

2124
01:55:59,160 --> 01:56:02,120
Everything's right at that sort
of vanilla line, you know, or

2125
01:56:02,120 --> 01:56:07,080
maybe chocolate.
And and you're not going to have

2126
01:56:07,080 --> 01:56:11,120
these these movies that are just
breakout wild successes because

2127
01:56:11,120 --> 01:56:15,160
they're all made by AI.
And so he said that's one of his

2128
01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:18,600
biggest concerns with AI is that
it just flattens everything out

2129
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:21,800
and makes it boring.
And it's a good point.

2130
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:27,040
It's an interesting point.
I think, I mean, you know, I

2131
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:30,520
take a much more positive view.
I mean, I again, I think AI is

2132
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:32,680
going to be a tool.
I don't think I don't see it as

2133
01:56:32,680 --> 01:56:36,080
taking over the world like
Skynet, but you know, you look

2134
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:39,320
at the entertainment business.
I mean, we go, we we chase our

2135
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:42,000
origins all the way back to the
Greeks, you know, in the

2136
01:56:42,040 --> 01:56:46,360
theater, you know, you know,
it's one of the few

2137
01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:49,040
consistencies, consistency
thing.

2138
01:56:49,320 --> 01:56:53,960
Consistent things across our
entire, across the entire human

2139
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:58,000
spectrum has been our timeline,
I should say is that, you know,

2140
01:56:58,040 --> 01:57:00,840
entertainment has always played
a has always been a thing.

2141
01:57:01,400 --> 01:57:03,640
You know, whether it's, you
know, Greek theatre, Roman,

2142
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:09,440
Roman gladiators to, to
Shakespeare to, you know, TV and

2143
01:57:09,440 --> 01:57:13,280
movies, you know, salon age and
you know, and now streaming and

2144
01:57:13,280 --> 01:57:16,440
stuff like that.
So I, I, people want to be

2145
01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:19,040
entertained.
People want to get together,

2146
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:21,920
they want to go listen to music
and see a show.

2147
01:57:22,240 --> 01:57:27,480
People want to be entertained.
So, you know, how that content

2148
01:57:27,480 --> 01:57:31,000
gets made is changing for sure,
and I think it will continue to

2149
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:32,680
evolve, but I don't see it going
away.

2150
01:57:33,080 --> 01:57:38,080
And, you know, any time there's
been where that leveling, so to

2151
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:42,280
speak, has always led to a new
innovation or people thinking

2152
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:45,440
outside of the box and, and,
and, and changing, you know,

2153
01:57:45,440 --> 01:57:48,200
hey, now we're going to do, you
know, we're going to do a color

2154
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:50,320
TV, you know, things like that.
So.

2155
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:52,920
Yeah, I'm, I love that.
I love that.

2156
01:57:52,920 --> 01:57:56,120
I love that.
I love that thought, that

2157
01:57:56,120 --> 01:57:59,240
approach, that philosophy.
I think you're you're on to

2158
01:57:59,240 --> 01:58:00,960
something there.
And it's it's cool.

2159
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:02,880
I like it, Yeah.
And, you know, this has been

2160
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:06,960
between COVID, all the the
political craziness, the economy

2161
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:10,720
craziness, It's been it's been
crazy.

2162
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:12,720
Yeah.
And people want to go have a

2163
01:58:12,720 --> 01:58:13,680
good time.
Yeah.

2164
01:58:13,680 --> 01:58:15,120
So.
So buy more.

2165
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:16,560
Moving lights, that's what I
say.

2166
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:19,040
Yeah, the world needs.
More moving lights and line

2167
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:22,480
array systems.
I, I think people, I think I am,

2168
01:58:22,480 --> 01:58:26,120
I am optimistic that we're going
to, I think it's going to be, I

2169
01:58:26,120 --> 01:58:29,080
think it's going to be as busy.
The one thing I do maybe even

2170
01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:30,720
more busy and I hope it's more
busy.

2171
01:58:31,120 --> 01:58:34,120
The one thing that I do think
that we're we're going to

2172
01:58:34,120 --> 01:58:37,400
struggle with is the time is
time is compressed.

2173
01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:40,800
You know, it used to be we had a
lot of lead time into a show,

2174
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:44,360
you know, that that lead up time
to a show now has compressed

2175
01:58:44,360 --> 01:58:45,840
significantly.
Yeah, they're.

2176
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:48,520
Twice as big and half as much
time, yeah.

2177
01:58:48,680 --> 01:58:51,520
You know, to put it together,
it's like, you know, I got to

2178
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:53,920
put a stadium rock show together
in two weeks.

2179
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,120
Like, that's crazy.
Yeah, you know.

2180
01:58:56,560 --> 01:58:59,400
Yeah, well, and then rehearsals
have become such a big problem.

2181
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:01,600
Rehearsal space has become a big
problem.

2182
01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:04,400
Yeah, I mean there.
But still we're seeing

2183
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:06,280
challenges.
But yeah, but we're seeing huge

2184
01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:07,800
innovation.
I mean, you got Rock Lititz

2185
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:10,480
going to Rock Nashville.
You got Gateway Studios.

2186
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:13,800
Yeah, you know, all those guys
are, are pushing the envelope

2187
01:59:13,800 --> 01:59:17,280
there, you know, and, and you
got stadium guy.

2188
01:59:17,560 --> 01:59:20,000
People who own stadiums are
like, hey, come rehearse here.

2189
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:21,560
We'll we'll cut you a deal and
stuff.

2190
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:24,040
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I think the whole stadium

2191
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:27,040
thing has has opened up more
arena space.

2192
01:59:27,040 --> 01:59:29,400
And so, yeah, it's it's
interesting.

2193
01:59:29,400 --> 01:59:31,280
It's it's fun to be a part of,
I'll tell you that.

2194
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:36,200
Like what has happened during
and since COVID is just, it's a

2195
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:39,320
book, you know, it's like, wow,
the things that we've learned in

2196
01:59:39,320 --> 01:59:41,160
the last four years are just
incredible.

2197
01:59:41,160 --> 01:59:44,160
So it's wild.
Well, I appreciate you, man.

2198
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,720
I appreciate you taking the time
to do this.

2199
01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:50,840
I can't take your whole day.
And So what about?

2200
01:59:51,320 --> 01:59:53,800
How often do you got to speak
with Mr. Wiseman, one of my best

2201
01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:57,160
buddies in the whole world?
I talk to him every week or so

2202
01:59:57,160 --> 02:00:00,080
thereabouts.
I mean, we communicate fairly

2203
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:00,880
often.
Yeah.

2204
02:00:00,880 --> 02:00:02,760
Super nice guy.
I love John.

2205
02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:07,480
I, you know, it's the, the 9
lives of John and each one of

2206
02:00:07,480 --> 02:00:10,080
them has been sort of a
different human and I, I just

2207
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:12,160
think he's such a great human
right now, you know?

2208
02:00:12,160 --> 02:00:15,200
Yeah, he's, you know what?
He's really interesting.

2209
02:00:16,240 --> 02:00:19,720
I like talking to him because he
has such an interesting point of

2210
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:25,080
view and he really understands
the nuances of this business.

2211
02:00:25,520 --> 02:00:28,240
Yeah.
And like, I've been around a

2212
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:30,680
lot, a fair amount of time,
hence the Gray hair.

2213
02:00:31,080 --> 02:00:34,440
But even having said that, you
know, I still find, you know,

2214
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:36,680
he's got a lot of really great
insights.

2215
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:38,400
Yeah.
You know, and, and that's one of

2216
02:00:38,400 --> 02:00:42,040
the things that I find myself
doing is trying to model a

2217
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:44,400
little bit of what he has done
in that, you know.

2218
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:48,800
Yeah, I talk to I try to talk to
our our younger employees and

2219
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:52,280
our younger customers, you know,
try to provide some insight

2220
02:00:52,280 --> 02:00:54,520
like, oh, This is why we did
this or this is, you know,

2221
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:55,760
thinking about how we do that
the.

2222
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:59,560
Other thing you can say is if
this ex drug addicted fuck up

2223
02:00:59,560 --> 02:01:02,760
can do it, you can do it
totally, you know, totally.

2224
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:06,760
So yeah, me and me and John, we
set a, a low bar when it comes

2225
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:09,400
to some of that stuff.
So, you know, if we can do it,

2226
02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:11,680
you can probably do it too.
Yeah, yeah.

2227
02:01:11,680 --> 02:01:15,600
No, I love the guy and I, he's,
he's definitely part of that.

2228
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:18,960
Like when you said you come to
work every day and work with

2229
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:22,760
incredible people, you know, I
mean, there's a lot of guys just

2230
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:27,480
like John who have and, and
women who have it experience, a

2231
02:01:27,480 --> 02:01:30,640
package of experience that is
just out of this world.

2232
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:33,520
Like, you know, to have a
company with one of those people

2233
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:36,720
in it is incredible, but to have
a company with 20 or 30 of those

2234
02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:38,520
people in it is like, whoa,
that's.

2235
02:01:38,520 --> 02:01:43,440
Amazing such this business has
always been the cast of

2236
02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:46,560
characters and just the
spectrum, just the cross

2237
02:01:46,560 --> 02:01:49,920
spectrum of people that would
that we have in this in this

2238
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:54,120
industry, yeah, I truly think is
unlike any any other industry.

2239
02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:55,280
Hell yeah.
Hell.

2240
02:01:55,880 --> 02:01:57,760
It's crazy.
It's unbelievable.

2241
02:01:57,760 --> 02:01:59,880
It's unbelievable.
Well, and the most successful

2242
02:01:59,880 --> 02:02:02,560
people have the craziest stories
most of the time, just like

2243
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:05,920
John, you know?
So yeah, it's what I love about

2244
02:02:05,920 --> 02:02:07,440
it.
Well, thank you, my friend.

2245
02:02:07,440 --> 02:02:09,000
I appreciate all the time and.
Well.

2246
02:02:09,080 --> 02:02:11,240
Thank you.
You know, I really love, I think

2247
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:14,800
your this podcast that you do is
pretty, pretty awesome and I

2248
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:17,560
love listening to you and I love
seeing some of the guests that

2249
02:02:17,560 --> 02:02:19,040
you have.
Thank you and some of the.

2250
02:02:19,040 --> 02:02:22,080
Some of the topics that you talk
about are just just amazing

2251
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:23,240
stuff.
Yeah.

2252
02:02:23,320 --> 02:02:27,120
And you're, you're is the one
whenever I, whenever I see an

2253
02:02:27,120 --> 02:02:29,640
intern, we have interns or
students that are getting into

2254
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:32,480
this business.
I said your podcast is one of

2255
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:34,520
the ones.
That I always direct people to.

2256
02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:38,800
Because it's, it's it's not what
I like about it.

2257
02:02:38,800 --> 02:02:42,320
It's not like, well, when I was
your age, there's yeah, we have

2258
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:43,560
those great roads.
There's some of that.

2259
02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:48,720
Some of that, but yeah, but it's
really insightful conversation

2260
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:52,320
and dialogue, like about AI,
like we were talking, you know,

2261
02:02:52,320 --> 02:02:53,680
and.
You know what, Chris?

2262
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:57,480
I mean, some of that.
I have so much respect for the

2263
02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:01,640
people who did all of this
stuff, whether it's a guy like

2264
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:05,880
David Miley who built a lighting
company back in the 70s, or any

2265
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:08,080
of these guys.
Like I could name 100 Robert

2266
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:10,160
Roth, you know, I could name 100
people.

2267
02:03:10,160 --> 02:03:12,680
Or park hands.
That most of them have been on

2268
02:03:12,760 --> 02:03:17,920
on this podcast and they're not
just their stories, which are so

2269
02:03:17,920 --> 02:03:21,720
much fun to hear the stories,
but just the amount of knowledge

2270
02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:24,480
and know how that they bring
forward with them.

2271
02:03:24,480 --> 02:03:27,200
And so, you know, blown our own
horn a little bit.

2272
02:03:27,200 --> 02:03:28,520
And I talked about it on the
intro.

2273
02:03:28,520 --> 02:03:31,920
We're doing a thing at LDI
called Dining with Dinosaurs,

2274
02:03:33,040 --> 02:03:34,640
brought to you by Geezers of
Gear.

2275
02:03:35,080 --> 02:03:39,280
And so it's a luncheon where
we're going to have round tables

2276
02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:41,920
and each round table is going to
have two or three, what we're

2277
02:03:41,920 --> 02:03:45,000
calling dinosaurs that are
people both still in the

2278
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:48,840
industry and retired and but
people who.

2279
02:03:49,080 --> 02:03:51,200
Are at the.
Foundation of lighting, the

2280
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:54,760
foundation of audio, the
foundation of all of it.

2281
02:03:54,760 --> 02:03:55,680
Right.
Rigging.

2282
02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:59,520
And like some incredible names
that we've already got committed

2283
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:02,120
on this list that I'm just like,
whoa, just to be in the room

2284
02:04:02,120 --> 02:04:05,840
with four of those people, but
let alone 20 or so of those

2285
02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:07,000
people is going to be
incredible.

2286
02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:11,560
And so I have a huge amount of
respect for the history and the

2287
02:04:11,560 --> 02:04:14,040
experience and the knowledge and
the stories.

2288
02:04:14,320 --> 02:04:18,080
It's why I do this, you know?
Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more,

2289
02:04:18,080 --> 02:04:20,480
man.
And like, like I said, what you

2290
02:04:20,480 --> 02:04:22,360
guys do, what you're doing is
fantastic.

2291
02:04:22,360 --> 02:04:24,760
And well, thanks, Chris.
Any anything I can ever do,

2292
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:27,240
don't hesitate to call me just.
Come on every six months and

2293
02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:31,040
share your wisdom because I love
talking to you about this stuff.

2294
02:04:31,040 --> 02:04:34,720
Because nobody, there's only
probably four people in the

2295
02:04:34,720 --> 02:04:39,800
world who are at the level that
you're at as far as the scale,

2296
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:42,880
you know, scale like I would
assume that four wall has a

2297
02:04:42,880 --> 02:04:45,960
person similar to you.
I would assume that Christie has

2298
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:48,440
a person similar to you.
I would assume that solo tech

2299
02:04:48,440 --> 02:04:52,600
does, but you know, so there's
very few people who have your

2300
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:56,800
skill and knowledge set that can
share things at a level that

2301
02:04:56,800 --> 02:04:59,200
other people just don't know
because they've never built to

2302
02:04:59,200 --> 02:05:01,080
that kind of scale and never
will.

2303
02:05:01,440 --> 02:05:03,440
Would love to come back, just
tell me when.

2304
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:05,760
Absolutely.
Every six months, I'm telling

2305
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:07,720
you, we'll put it.
We'll put you on the schedule on

2306
02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:09,640
a rotation.
All right, my friend.

2307
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:10,880
Thank you.
Thank you so much.

2308
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:11,840
All right, later.