#265 - David Wolstenholme

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Just finished recording episode
#265 with Mr. David

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Wollstenholm.
I didn't want to screw that one

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up.
And he's from Worcester.

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Worcester, he's going to laugh
at this because I still can't

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say the word.
It's funny because, you know, up

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here we mix that into a drink
called The Caesar, and everybody

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pronounces it differently.
But he's from that place in

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England.
Really super interesting guy.

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He's out with ELO right now.
He's in Cincinnati and just

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finishing up I guess the US tour
for that said he goes back home

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the end of October.
So I guess he's got a lot of

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shows left on that tour.
Some really smart stuff.

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We talked a lot about networking
and networking, you know, MA

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consoles and all that kind of
stuff.

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So show networking on installs
or shows.

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And so anyways, grab on listen
to episode #265 on Gears of

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00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:08,880
Gear.
Hello and thanks for joining me

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00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,360
today on Gears of Gear episode
#265.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it's the

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lovely Sarah, our producer, also
known as Bernie.

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Her, her last name, but also I
think sort of your touring name,

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right?
Like when you go out on tour,

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people don't call you Sarah
anymore, do they?

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Yeah, it's well Torah name and
mainly it was from like F1 days.

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So I was known Bernie or you
know, and I was the Bernie, you

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know, obviously the other.
Well, now there's another

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Bernie.
Yeah, well, there's actually a

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couple of Bernie's, but yeah.
I know everyone's copying us

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now.
Like seriously.

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Well, I think it might actually
be their name.

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You know, like Bernie Ecclestone
might have been there before

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you.
Perhaps it's possible that.

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When we had Duck David, Duck
Burns on the show and I was

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like, well, I didn't know what
to call you.

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Even in the emails I was like,
is it rude to straight away call

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you Duck?
You know, if someone calls me

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Bernie up front, I'm like, who
are you?

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Yeah, who the hell do you think
you are calling me?

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Yeah, you haven't earned that
right, you.

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Haven't earned that that that
that Bernie anyway, yeah,

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that's.
Funny, that's funny.

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So Sarah's probably too girly of
a name to be out on tour, right?

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Like if you're out with a bunch
of guys at F1 or, or on tour or

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whatever.
Well, actually, no, it was.

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My Sarah's too soft.
It was actually my girlfriends

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that started calling me Bernie
so.

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How was it?
Yeah, the girlfriends started

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calling me Bernie, and then the
boyfriends followed, followed

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on.
And.

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Here, I mean actually 11 Greek
person started calling me Bernie

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and just caught on for a little
bit, but then it was just too

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difficult so.
Yeah, Bernie.

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What's Bernie?
Bernie.

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Bernie.
Bernie, Bernie.

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Bernie.
What means Bernie?

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What means Bernie?
Yeah, especially when we do have

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flames going up over the other
side, they're like, yeah, what?

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What?
So you've been there like 7

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years now or something right in
Creek?

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15 years. 15 years and you still
don't speak any Greek.

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I do speak Greek, but not to the
level that I should speak Greek.

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Yeah, like you can, you can
probably order dinner and and

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find out where the toilet is,
but beyond that you're screwed.

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But.
I mean, midnight.

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So I mean, for, let's say for
eight of those years, I was

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always travelling Formula One
there.

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I'm like, you know, this wasn't
my base.

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So officially this has been my
base for.

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Yeah, basically seven years,
eight years, eight years.

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This has been my base for my
home.

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And I really should.
I really should.

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Should, should even now I'm
married.

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I'm married to a Greek man.
And right.

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I mean, seriously.
The mighty Manoli.

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How does how terrible is that?
Like, you know the our our well,

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our main language is ginglish.
His English is fairly perfect

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though, right?
His English is but at some point

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says like if he's tired, then
he.

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I mean, sometimes you don't
understand me, so imagine a.

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Poor Greek man.
Yeah, yeah.

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Well, I have trouble with, you
know, my girlfriend is, is

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British.
I have trouble with her

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occasionally because for her
she's very stubborn and won't

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get rid of the English words or
the British isms or whatever.

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And sometimes she says things to
me and I'm like, what the hell

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are you talking about?
You know, like some of the the

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old sayings or whatever.
And I'm like, it doesn't make

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any sense whatsoever.
But you.

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Imagine that doesn't make.
Sense to you?

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Can you imagine with with
Monoli?

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00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,680
He's really like, no, I, I don't
understand.

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Could you draw me a picture?
Draw this for me please.

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But I, I keep on promising
myself that I will, I, I will

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learn.
I will, I, I would have lessons.

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I'll do this.
But it's easier said than done.

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I mean, even though you're
immersed in that environment,

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it's still easier said than
done.

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Like I've lived in South Florida
for 30 years and I've always

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said I really should learn
Spanish, but I've never learned

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Spanish.
You know, I probably know 30

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words in Spanish, but it isn't
enough to get me anywhere or to

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do anything so but.
Sadly, you know, being English

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or having English, English
native speakers, speakers, shall

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I say, we're amazing.
That's it.

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Yeah.
You know, it's true.

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I have, I've, there's so many.
The tourism that comes through

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here.
It's not just Greeks.

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It's not just, you know, French,
Spanish, Italians, Mexican, you

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name it, we have everybody come
through here.

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And what do you think?
English.

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So.
Like I know I'm lazy, but lazy

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in a nice way.
Yeah, well, you know what?

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And you've gotten by this long,
so it's not like you have to do

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it.
And you know, like I know a lot

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of people, Bruno Didoro used to
crack me up.

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He, he was the owner of Komar
for many, many years, Komar

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Lighting and in Italy.
And so when the company that I

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was a part of, first when we
started doing business with

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Komar, but then we eventually
acquired the company, it was

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funny because I would do
business with, with Bruno daily

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and I could tell that he
understood English, but he was

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being stubborn and pretending
that he didn't.

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And so he'd bring an interpreter
along and, and I started picking

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up some of the words that he was
telling the interpreter, like

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bullshit him and tell him this,
you know, and things like that.

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And, you know, so I had to learn
enough English to know that I

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wasn't getting screwed.
And I also had to really

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understand, and this was when it
was Lira, I had to understand

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numbers as it pertained to, to
finance, as it pertained to

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money.
So when he was talking about how

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much something would cost or, or
could it, could we get it to

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this price or it needs to hit
this number or whatever, you

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know, sometimes it was, you
know.

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That's.
Really interesting.

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Then they do a Mila leader, you
know, and that sounds like a lot

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of money, you know, But lira,
we're like 1700 to the dollar or

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whatever, you know?
So it was like something was a

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million lira, and you were like,
oh shit, that's way too much

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00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,000
money.
And then you go, wait, that's

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not ten grand or whatever it
was, right?

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So, so yeah, it's it.
And he was just so stubborn.

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He just refused to absolutely
learn English and refused to

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acknowledge that he knew enough
English to be able to

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communicate in English.
So.

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00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,720
And that's so funny.
Because I also, I have people

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here that at first I'll always,
always I'll try and speak Greek.

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00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:19,720
I mean, there's, there's one
Sperner at the moment.

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00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,200
I I told you I've been helping
out.

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00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,840
And.
Everybody in the kitchen,

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00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,520
there's one guy that I knew
spoke English and everybody

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00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,720
else, as far as I'm concerned,
nobody did.

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So like every day I was speaking
my best Greek.

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00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,560
Literally after like almost a
month, one man, he comes around

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00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,880
and he's like start speaking
English, but not just English, I

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00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,400
mean fluent English.
And I looked at him and I'm

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00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,440
like, you've been letting me
speak my dodgy grief this whole

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00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,920
time.
He went I thought it was good

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00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,080
and I thought it was helped you.
I said it did actually, because

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00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,080
now I'm.
Just that's hilarious though.

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00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,800
That's so funny.
That's so funny that he did

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00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:02,960
that.
Yes, I did.

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00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,800
You've been taking the piss.
Yes, I have and.

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00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,800
I think it was a test to see how
good a worker I, I actually had

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00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,720
like a good a worker because at
first he just saw me as like,

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00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,840
you know, Minoni's wife, What
can she do?

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00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,480
And then of course, you know me.
I went in and I was like,

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00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,640
Bernie's here.
That's hilarious.

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00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,160
You know on the on the
translation thing one time my

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00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,280
ex-wife we were in Denmark 25
years ago.

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00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,240
Probably for a Martin thing.
And we were at the Aarhus

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00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,560
Festival in Aarhus, Denmark, and
we went to this beer stand and

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00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,640
the guy wasn't speaking a word
of English.

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You know, be it up, blah, blah,
blah, it's this much and

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00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,560
whatever.
And she couldn't understand a

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00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:53,080
word he was saying.
So she just put out her hand

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00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,840
with a bunch of Cronin in it.
Like the Danish money and it was

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00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,280
all coins, right?
And half of them had holes in

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00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,800
them.
The other half didn't have holes

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00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,000
in them.
She had no idea how much money

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00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,280
she had in her hand, right?
It could have been, you know, 30

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00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,440
bucks or something.
So she just hold out her hand

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00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,920
and he grabs a bunch of coins
and she goes, wait a second, are

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00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:20,200
you screwing me?
And he goes, yes, spoke English

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00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,000
all the time, you know, but just
wanted to complicate her life a

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00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,640
little bit and certainly
accomplish that.

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00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,600
So I.
Mean sometimes if I'm in a group

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00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,240
of people, not all the time,
just sometimes.

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00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,200
And then, you know, I'll be
speaking and they'll be like,

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00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,800
your English is really good,
where are you from?

228
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,560
And I'll say somewhere, like
somewhere not England, you know,

229
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,880
I'm French, really.
Yeah, that's fine, really.

230
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,840
And I was like, no, I'm not.
No, I'm English.

231
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:54,840
That's why I speak English.
Yeah, so we wanted to get you on

232
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,400
here to talk about what you did
a couple of weeks ago, which is

233
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,880
something that I guess you used
to do more often.

234
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:06,280
But now that you've been, you
know, locked it down in in Crete

235
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,840
and married and stuck doing
producing for this silly podcast

236
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,320
use of gear, you never do this
anymore.

237
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,640
So.
So you actually went out on tour

238
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,200
for a week?
I did so.

239
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,160
It was all very fast.
I got the call probably

240
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,560
literally was like 5 days before
I actually flew out.

241
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,360
So obviously I was really wanted
for the tour, you know, not that

242
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,120
someone dropped out.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

243
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,360
They planned well in advance to
get you out there.

244
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,640
These things into perspective,
they were so like Sarah, we've

245
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,320
missed you with this and I'm
like yeah, miss me or someone's

246
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,760
just dropped out and there's no.
That's hilarious, yeah.

247
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,440
But it's still I'm glad I was on
the end of one of their speed

248
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,000
dials.
I haven't toured literally since

249
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,240
and I hate using the word but
it's the marker.

250
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:07,320
Before COVID, My, my, my, my
last, last gig during that

251
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,680
summer was Muse, the Muse tour
and then OMD, which was a small

252
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,640
one through Europe.
And you know, I thought that

253
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,560
that was going to be, you know,
what I was going to be doing for

254
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,400
a long time.
I think most people did,

255
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,440
although I was never what I
call, you know, like a regular

256
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,960
tour.
I wouldn't go from 1 tour

257
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,200
straight back-to-back into
another because I had a

258
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:31,800
beautiful island to come and
live in for.

259
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,120
Well, and you also weren't
married yet, right?

260
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,600
No, I wasn't married, but like,
I I was never really into that,

261
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,160
you know, like just working 365
days a year.

262
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,440
Like I loved this island before
I fell in love with my keep was

263
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:49,120
like myself.
Yeah.

264
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,120
You don't want to do that.
You don't want to do that.

265
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,200
I'm not.
I'm not.

266
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,920
Yeah.
No, I was in love with the

267
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,680
island, you know, before I fell
in love with Manoli.

268
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,360
So for me, you know, I would
come back to enjoy the island

269
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,440
and do my walks, do everything
and then go back on tour,

270
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,200
whatever the moment felt like,
whatever.

271
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,560
So to be asked to go back on
tour, it was only, it literally

272
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,600
was a week.
It was three days in the end.

273
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,360
One, one day, one day, where is
it?

274
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,560
Belfast.
Then we travelled to Dublin

275
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,680
where we didn't work, but then
we then went back up to Glasgow

276
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,200
for two days.
It was incredible to be back and

277
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,680
to be part of it.
The team like Blink 1.

278
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,560
Who are you with?
Blink 182, they were all

279
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,920
amazing.
I mean, really from production

280
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,520
Pyro.
I met the Pyro before, like on

281
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,040
Coldplay.
In fact, I really want to get

282
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:53,520
those guys on the podcast.
And really, it was so wonderful

283
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,960
to be back in that environment,
you know, that family tour life,

284
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,760
but just coming in as an
outsider, you know, I was just

285
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,119
doing the dressing room.
So like, I literally just, you

286
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,200
know, sorted the dressing rooms
and then that was it.

287
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,079
I was out of there.
And then obviously then at the

288
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,280
end and when people don't know
you so much, they're, you know,

289
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,920
well, who's that, you know,
what's she doing?

290
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,280
Who's this?
But it did feel nice.

291
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,640
It felt nice sleeping on the on
the bus.

292
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,599
So I told you it was more like
sleeping on a tour bus.

293
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,280
With a bunch of blokes.
With a bunch of blokes.

294
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,560
There were two ladies.
There were 3 ladies on our on

295
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,400
our it was like half.
Half this time so there was

296
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,160
half.
Half, half, half.

297
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:37,000
Female, half, half male on the
tour bus, but we all seem to

298
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,120
just literally finish, finish
work or just go to bed.

299
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:45,480
So yeah, that's why I wanted to
say the change, like maybe it

300
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,160
was because of the end of the
tour, I don't know.

301
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:54,000
But the change I saw was
everybody was so good.

302
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,560
I mean.
Yeah.

303
00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,120
So good, you know.
Less shenanigans, more more

304
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,280
professional ish.
Really.

305
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,600
Really.
Like, I mean that because before

306
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,440
even, you know, the few years
I've been out from it, like I

307
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,400
remember, you know, everyone
like doing lines on the bus

308
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,720
before you got to work at
whatever time or drinking or, or

309
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,720
all in the afternoon.
You know, we've had guests on

310
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,520
the podcast saying the same
things.

311
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,400
We'd go to the pub.
You know, I didn't see any of

312
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,480
this, You know, it was all
really just like professional

313
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:36,520
and even the team that you know,
like I was directly with, I said

314
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,080
to all of them, I was like, why
is nobody drinking?

315
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,120
And like, oh, no, I don't do
that anymore.

316
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,520
No, no, no.
And I.

317
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,720
Was like, wow, you know what?
That's such an interesting

318
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,840
concept because I think that
when you take something away

319
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,800
from people like COVID did you
know, for a couple of years and

320
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,480
and I think a lot of people
started really to wonder, am I

321
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,520
ever going to be able to do this
again?

322
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,440
And I think the people who
didn't care much about it and it

323
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,040
was just a gig, they went on to
do other things and they may

324
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,280
have come back to touring
because the money's better or

325
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,320
whatever.
But I think the ones who really,

326
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,720
really take it seriously, who
who this is a lifestyle and this

327
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,600
is something that they truly
chose to do.

328
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,440
Those people I think came back
and said I'm going to do

329
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:28,960
whatever I can to protect this
and to to create longevity and

330
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,760
to, you know, make sure that I'm
doing the best job that I can

331
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,760
do.
And it seems like they're just

332
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,720
different now, like it's.
But then on the flip side, there

333
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,760
was another tour in Dublin at
the same time and I know that

334
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,840
they'd all gone crazy, so it
could.

335
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:46,320
Be.
Oh, really?

336
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,840
Yeah.
So maybe I'm full of shit.

337
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,280
Maybe my whole my whole thought
here is bullshit.

338
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,920
You know, it's just right back
to the same.

339
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,720
In that house, I don't think it
is.

340
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:02,160
I think, well, I think what
actually has a huge impact and I

341
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,120
was asked.
You know, my availability for

342
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,600
another tour upcoming.
And as I've told you, I'm not

343
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,880
available because I love my job
here in Crete.

344
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,680
But literally I looked at the
schedule for the tour and I said

345
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,200
to I said to the person asking
me, I was like, that's insane.

346
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,920
I was like, really?
That's absolutely.

347
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:32,720
The schedule is insane.
Like there was no room to have a

348
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,640
what's known as like a roadie
Friday jumping on the bus and

349
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,160
you've got you lead into a day
off and it's fun.

350
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,320
Maybe you've got another day off
after.

351
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,320
Like not the touring's about
having your days off, but it is

352
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:48,040
about the daytime.
It's about bonding together and

353
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,480
being different places around
the world and around Europe.

354
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,280
This.
Particular tour was literally

355
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,200
like arenas.
You know they're not, you know,

356
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,160
it's not even small, but load
in, load out, jump on the bus,

357
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,160
load in, load out for four days
straight.

358
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,640
Then you think you've got a day
off, but actually the distance

359
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,160
from the gig, you the 4th gig
you've just loaded out of and

360
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:15,200
you're now shattered.
It's like a 12 hour journey to

361
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,440
the next week.
So you're just literally going

362
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,640
to roll in from the bus into the
next gig.

363
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:20,720
You're not.
You haven't got a day off.

364
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,760
That's no day off.
That's what you're sat on a bus

365
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,200
pretty exhausted.
And for me, I see too much of

366
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,120
that now.
Yeah, and that's me.

367
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,280
That's that's that's you big
people.

368
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,600
Well, that's I think that is
just the whole money grab side

369
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,880
of our industry.
Well, not our industry, but the,

370
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,040
the rock'n'roll or, or music
touring industry, the live music

371
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,800
touring industry.
It's a money grab.

372
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,240
You know, it's like, wait, if I
can do 50 shows, can I do 70?

373
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,640
Can can I do 80 and trying?
To do it.

374
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,400
And then the promoters at the
very top of the food chain, the

375
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,040
promoters and the artists are,
are just ringing this thing out

376
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,120
to get as much as much money out
of it as they possibly can.

377
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,480
I understand that, you know, I'm
a capitalist at the same time.

378
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,200
But you know, I like how the
country stars do it.

379
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,120
I got to be honest, I love how
the country stars do it.

380
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:17,960
And I don't mean the fake
country stars like like Taylor

381
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,720
Swift.
I mean, the country stars, the

382
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,240
real country stars.
Typically it's a family

383
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,280
business.
Like they go on tour from

384
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,200
Thursday till Sunday and they're
back at home in Nashville or

385
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,440
wherever they live for the rest
of the week and then boom,

386
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,200
they're back on tour Thursday or
some of them even just Friday,

387
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,880
Saturday, Sunday or whatever.
But they're usually doing two or

388
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,720
three shows a week.
It's on the weekend and you

389
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,760
know, it's very family.
They bring their family along

390
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,480
with them, the the crew, the
band, everyone else goes home as

391
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,640
well.
You know, it's just, it's a

392
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,120
totally different way of doing
it.

393
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,480
I think again, there's a fine
line of, you know, having, you

394
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,600
know, work rest with family
time.

395
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,560
You know, if you're going into
this industry, it isn't very

396
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,680
family related.
You know, it's not, you know,

397
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,000
same as Formula One now.
Yeah.

398
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,400
I mean, really.
Yeah.

399
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,720
But my worry is that somewhere
we, we all don't know how to say

400
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:19,720
no.
So.

401
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,520
And that goes for the artists.
Now, if I'm at that first gig on

402
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,400
that, that run of four, amazing.
I reckon I'm going to get a

403
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,080
good, you know, I'm, I'm going
to get a good performance out of

404
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,840
that, plus become the third one
even.

405
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,320
They're going to be tired.
I mean, really to put on a show

406
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,240
every night for four nights and
then start it all again, like

407
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,840
they must be tired.
I mean the crew, you know, we're

408
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,520
tired.
When do the mistakes start

409
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,360
happening or when, when does
anything?

410
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,120
I mean, the actual, I was
talking to one of the, the the

411
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,520
caterers and they were saying
how the owner of it, he was

412
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,080
saying how they want to change
it, how they want to change the

413
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:05,200
hours that, you know, we give
people like a day off and a this

414
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560
and that.
And I just laughed and I know

415
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,560
that's horrible.
I was like, that would never

416
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,520
happen.
Like really it will because even

417
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,200
on a day, if someone said to
you, OK, you can have a day off

418
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,320
now without and everyone part of
your team is all working hard.

419
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,640
You want to help them because
you become that team.

420
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,160
So anyway, there's many things I
know there's trying.

421
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,400
There's room for improvement in
many aspects of it, but it's how

422
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,960
far is is our bodies going to be
pushed, you know, to do to do

423
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,200
these gigs basically.
And I remember in Formula One,

424
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,640
it was the first, well, we had
the back-to-back and I believe

425
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,880
it was coming from Barcelona to
Monaco.

426
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:53,320
And really they pushed
everybody's limits, I mean, to

427
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,280
the fullest and everyone was
like, never, we're going to do

428
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,400
this again.
One person did just literally a

429
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,600
high, high up person literally
handed his keys and he just

430
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,440
disappeared.
I've nobody even heard from him

431
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,160
again.
He was like, no.

432
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,120
But that was one. 1000 people
that were working to get this

433
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,840
tig up and you know.
Get this.

434
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,040
Event running now for me it's
now gone insane.

435
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,360
I think there's well, there's
not only just triple headers now

436
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,520
there's back double back to
backs with a day off it like

437
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,600
it's insane.
I mean, I remember back in my

438
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,200
day one again, we went there not
just to work, but we were there

439
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:40,480
to party and I the season ended
in October and started again

440
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,120
March.
Whenever you had that time

441
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,040
testing, the testing team were
around, you know, the the race

442
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,400
team and the test team got time
off with their families.

443
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,280
No, they don't.
And that was one of the reasons

444
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,640
why I left in the end.
But.

445
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,000
Yeah.
Well, you know, it's different.

446
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,360
I think when you're in your 20s
and 30s, it's one thing, you

447
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:01,240
know, when you get into your 40s
and then when you get married or

448
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,480
you have kids or any of those
things, it's just less

449
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,840
appealing.
And you know, for some people,

450
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,200
they still put up with it
because it's a lifestyle or

451
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,000
whatever.
But I think a lot of other

452
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,640
people have just.
And you know, again, Kovid was a

453
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,400
catalyst for that.
Kovid pushed a lot of people to

454
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,480
say, hey, you know what, I like
hanging out at home.

455
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,920
I like getting to know my family
and my kids and stuff and.

456
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,200
Then why the tours?
Like if they'd have been how I

457
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,760
remember doing all all my tours,
literally, you know, stadium

458
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,680
tours, whatever.
You know, you had you had like

459
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,760
two of them back-to-back.
You were strong.

460
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,040
You knew you had a strong six
day week, whatever normal, but

461
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,840
then you had three days off rest
your.

462
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Body right, but but Sarah, the
problem is 99% of the tours are

463
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,320
not those big stadium tours that
can get away with doing that.

464
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,400
Most of them have to do theatre
after theatre after theatre

465
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,320
after nightclub after theatre
after nightclub because they're

466
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,880
trying to, you know, get a name
for themselves.

467
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,120
They're trying to build their
social media following, They're

468
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:01,960
trying to get up to the the
arena level.

469
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,560
And the only way to do that is
to work yourself to the bone.

470
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,320
No, I know that.
But now the arena ones are

471
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,280
becoming that way as well, like
there are.

472
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,600
No, that's the money grab.
Yeah, that's to me.

473
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,160
That's just, you know, as long
as you have corporations the

474
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,080
size of Live Nation, that's just
what's going to happen.

475
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,400
I mean, they have, they have
shareholders.

476
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,160
They're a public company.
Public companies thrive on their

477
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,560
quarterly's and annual reports
and stuff.

478
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,680
And if you're not growing, the
stock is, is nose diving, you

479
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,880
know, so you have to constantly
show growth every quarter over

480
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,600
quarter.
And the only way to do that is

481
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:48,040
is either to build more venues,
to add more dates in the same

482
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,160
venues and have these, you know,
residencies or whatever to move

483
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,000
arena shows into stadiums and
try and sell twice as many

484
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,080
tickets.
I mean, there's only so many

485
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,160
ways to do it.
But I think the easiest way is

486
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,720
to get bands that we're doing 4
shows a week to do 6 shows a

487
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,800
week, you know, and but yeah, so
I mean, I think that that is

488
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,640
that is sort of a great cloud
over our industry right now that

489
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,560
I think is going to burnout a
lot of the people that are in

490
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,760
there.
Our ages, my age, you're you're

491
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,400
much younger, but you know, my
age, 50s, sixties, even some

492
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,440
people in their 70s like they
can't do those kinds of dates

493
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,360
anymore or they're struggling to
do it.

494
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,840
And so we'll see.
We'll see how that.

495
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,560
Ends on, you know, on the
podcast with many of your

496
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,360
guests, but you know, it's the
mental health side as well.

497
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,520
Like really, I saw so many that
that for me, in fact, there was

498
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,120
one day I called you and I was
like, myself, I can't do this.

499
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,400
I can't do this.
Like, people are going crazy on

500
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,000
me, and I'd only been there a
week.

501
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,280
Yeah, I just saw it, you know?
And I was like, no, take me back

502
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,040
to my beautiful island.
Take me back to here.

503
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:05,680
Take me back to you working.
Yeah, well, you know what I

504
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,520
mean.
There's a lot to be said for for

505
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,760
having your home life and for
being able to like, I love

506
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,360
remote work.
I, you know, I've leaned into it

507
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,640
pretty hard, obviously with Gear
Source.

508
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,880
And we have people in Europe, we
have people in Canada, we have

509
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,600
people in the United States, we
have people in Asia.

510
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,120
And I love it.
Like it's cool.

511
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,640
I see these people every day.
You know, for those of you who

512
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,080
don't know this, Sarah and I
have been together through both

513
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,040
Gear Source and Geez of Gear for
what, four years, 3-4 years now,

514
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,120
yeah.
Three, yeah. 3-4 years, yeah.

515
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,760
And we've never met.
Nope.

516
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,200
Sarah and I have never met and
we're like best buddies almost.

517
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,720
And, and we've never met.
You know, we talk every day, but

518
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,640
we've never met.
So we've got something brewing

519
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,320
for LDI this year.
And so not only will Sarah get

520
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,760
to come over to LDI, but we'll
actually get to say hello in

521
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,200
person for once.
So that'll be fun.

522
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,000
That'll be fun.
She'll probably realize how much

523
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,640
taller I am than her and.
She'll.

524
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,920
Be like, wow, I thought you were
short.

525
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,560
Yeah, funny.
That's usually what it is like.

526
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,440
Remember Daniel?
Oh yeah, When he came and he was

527
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,920
like.
Daniel, Daniel There's a funny

528
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,680
thing about Daniel.
Daniel's one of the most

529
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,560
pleasant people I've ever met in
my life.

530
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,120
Like him and I are still friends
today.

531
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,640
We talk often.
His spirit is like everybody

532
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,760
else's spirit is around here.
We have good days and bad days.

533
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,520
You know, we're, we're around
the 50% range.

534
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,520
He's up here somewhere where
it's just always up.

535
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,400
Like it's like, whoa, today's
going to be amazing.

536
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:46,960
You know, that's how he wakes up
every morning.

537
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,800
And but it was funny because
again, he worked for me for, I

538
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,680
don't know, four or five months,
never met him.

539
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,880
And he was scheduled to come
into LDI.

540
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,920
And Karen goes, you're going to
be surprised.

541
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,200
My girlfriend, she says, you're
going to be surprised.

542
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,960
And I said why?
And she said, well, I guarantee

543
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,560
he's short.
And I said, what do you mean

544
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,240
short?
And she goes like, I bet he's

545
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,880
55.
And I said, no way, He's a tall

546
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,520
guy.
Look at him like nobody looks

547
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,000
like that in his short.
And she was exactly right.

548
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,960
Like he's, he's probably 5455.
I don't know what that is in

549
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,720
whatever you guys know.
I know what else.

550
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Fathoms or whatever the hell it
is.

551
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,720
But but yeah, so I met him and I
was, I laughed and he goes,

552
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,120
what?
My hair.

553
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,480
And I said, no, I've seen your
hair on screen.

554
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,520
It's your height.
I don't see that on screen

555
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,320
because everybody's the same
height, right?

556
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,280
But even when he was on screen,
he just looked bigger because he

557
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240
would sometimes be standing and
he would get, yeah, like,

558
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,320
there's no way.
And I remember seeing a photo of

559
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,880
all of you and I was like.
Who's the little guy?

560
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,240
Yeah, who's the little guy with
the funny hairdo?

561
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,440
But the other thing about
Daniel, that was so hilarious

562
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,840
when we got to LDI.
So I think we both got there

563
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,360
like Thursday night or
something.

564
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,160
Well, by Friday morning, I think
we're having breakfast and in

565
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,040
the restaurant, in the hotel,
people are coming up and going.

566
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Hey, Daniel, how you doing?
Hey, Daniel.

567
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,920
Hey, Daniel.
Like he'd made frigging 500

568
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,680
friends the night before.
And it's because of his look,

569
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,080
because he's got that like
dreadlock crazy hairdo going on.

570
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,920
And, and he's so smiley and
happy and positive and out there

571
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,760
and he'll talk to anybody about
anything.

572
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,800
And so, I mean, you know, I've
been going to LDI for 30

573
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,520
something years and he comes
into his first show and he knows

574
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,480
more people than I do.
It was crazy.

575
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,400
It was unbelievable.
He's, he's like a, he's like a,

576
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,400
you know, a magnet for marketing
your business.

577
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,400
Like you just want to put swag
on him and have him walk around

578
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,800
the trade show all day.
You know you're going to, you're

579
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,080
going to get to know everyone.
To me this year.

580
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,960
Not really.
You don't have that same sort of

581
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,280
draw, you know, like you'd have
to, you'd have to put on one of

582
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,160
those dreadlock wigs or
something to get people's

583
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,080
attention, I guess.
Come.

584
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,920
Come back to this this.
Year.

585
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But anyways, so, yeah, we're

586
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,120
working on something for LDI and
I think probably by next week

587
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,440
we're going to start announcing
it.

588
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,640
It's it's cool.
You know, it's something that's

589
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,440
taken an old dinosaur like me,
you know, a whole bunch of

590
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,040
months to come up with this
concept, working with some other

591
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,000
dinosaurs on it.
So it'll be fun.

592
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,600
It'll be fun.
We're going to announce it in

593
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,800
the next couple weeks and start
promoting it a little bit and

594
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,760
yeah, it'll be cool.
Well, thank you for having me on

595
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,720
the intro.
No thanks for talking about it.

596
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:59,560
So tell me anything that you
tell me the thing you loved the

597
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,320
most and the thing you hated the
most about your lengthy one Week

598
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,360
3 show tour.
I loved coming back.

599
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Why?
That's too generic.

600
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,719
Joking.
No.

601
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,480
What did I actually?
The moment when I saw all the

602
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,840
pyro going off for the last song
of the very last gig, because

603
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,639
that was that was in Glasgow.
That was awesome.

604
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:27,840
The feeling, seeing the crowd.
That was my best, really.

605
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:28,239
My best.
What?

606
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,120
Was their last song every Show
I.

607
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,880
Don't know.
I, I, I, you can't tell me that

608
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,360
I can't I it was, it was, it was
noise and but it was just

609
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,320
awesome.
The feeling you saw everybody

610
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,760
and then when they walked off
the stage, like of course for

611
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,760
them they had all the families
there and it was just like it

612
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,639
was, it was an emotional moment.
So that.

613
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,000
That was really.
Awesome to be part of.

614
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,719
What did I hate?
The attitude of certain people.

615
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,440
That's.
Really, really.

616
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,720
And sadly, the the lack of
organization, because you know

617
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:03,880
me, I like to have everything
like that that freaks me out

618
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,080
when I'm not in control because
I was only jumping in for three

619
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,320
gigs.
I didn't.

620
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,720
Have my own.
Excuse my life, I didn't have my

621
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:14,520
own shit sorted, so for me I was
working in under somebody else's

622
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,160
way.
System.

623
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,560
Yeah, I.
Didn't like that.

624
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,280
So yeah, yeah.
But if I was there for longer, I

625
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,640
mean even by the last.
So you're a control freak and

626
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,280
you weren't in control?
Yeah.

627
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,560
No, that's that's that's the
truth.

628
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,640
So yeah.
Yeah, no, that's cool.

629
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,920
Yeah.
So do you know today's guest?

630
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,520
I don't know, no.
Oh, because he's from from Kent,

631
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,520
England.
So I thought maybe he was

632
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,320
somebody that you knew.
Interesting.

633
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,600
So I'm going to go ahead and
read his bio and then we can we

634
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,880
can get him on the podcast here.
Fantastic.

635
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,640
So and I'll probably pronounce
his name wrong.

636
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,400
David Wollstenholm.
I thought the same, yes.

637
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,000
Wollstone OK, so David
Wollstenholm is a Control

638
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,280
systems specialist from Kent,
England.

639
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,440
David has gained extensive
experience touring large scale

640
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,760
musical theatre and ice shows
and has spent time at the

641
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,840
National Theatre of Great
Britain and Cirque du Soleil.

642
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,040
Most recently, he has toured
internationally with pop and

643
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,280
rock artists in stadiums and
arenas worldwide, working with

644
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:25,400
ELO, Take That, Uh Oh, Helaine
Fisher and Pharrell Williams.

645
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,800
David specializes in lighting
and show data integration and

646
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,640
control systems, including
lighting and video tracking

647
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,400
systems for events of all sizes.
Along with business partners Dom

648
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,200
Smith and Paul Johnson, David
established Show Binary Limited.

649
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,360
The company specializes in
designing, consulting, and

650
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,240
renting data control systems for
live events, theater and film.

651
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,680
And so thank you again, Sarah,
for doing this, and welcome,

652
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:01,760
David. 2 Geysers of Gear episode
#265 Well hello there Sir, How

653
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,880
are you today?
I'm very well, thank you.

654
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,000
How are you?
I'm fan flippantastic, actually.

655
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,600
It's freezing cold.
I had to turn my heat on today.

656
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,240
I'm in the Canadian Rocky
Mountains and I don't know, it

657
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,320
feels like snow.
Oh very good, I think it's sunny

658
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,680
outside but obviously being a
full time ginger man I'm

659
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,480
avoiding it.
Yeah.

660
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,640
That's a good, good point.
Yeah.

661
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,600
Where are you?
The dazzling metropolis of

662
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,080
Cincinnati, OH.
Lovely.

663
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,880
Lovely, Yeah, and.
So I'm out at the moment.

664
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:36,080
I'm lighting directing for, for
Tim Routledge on Jeff Lindsay

665
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Yellow.
So we've got a couple of days

666
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,080
off.
It's a, it's a yes, a lovely old

667
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,360
Man of Rock'n'roll to, you know,
do a few shows, cut the days

668
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,760
off.
Kind of a nice, yeah, perfect

669
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,680
schedule, although you you end
up in places that maybe you

670
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,560
probably wouldn't want a few
days off perhaps, I don't know.

671
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,280
Their fight's fine, you know.
Yeah, yeah.

672
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,880
It's only a couple of days and
you know, we're going, we're

673
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,520
going to entertain ourselves.
There'll be somewhere that sells

674
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,800
both beer and chicken wings, so
there'll be something to do.

675
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,200
Yeah, Well, in the United States
and certainly in the Midwest,

676
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,360
you're going to find beer and
chicken wings in many, many

677
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,640
places.
Absolutely.

678
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,960
So yeah, you said Jeff Lynne's
ELO.

679
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,960
So is it one of those ones like
where there's multiple fractions

680
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,360
or factions of the band that are
sort of broken up by member?

681
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,400
My understanding of it is that
the band, yeah, sort of went

682
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,360
various separate ways a number
of years ago and then as part of

683
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,760
Jeff buying back essentially the
rights to a yellow and the name

684
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,200
all the rest of it, it is
functionally under Jeff Lindsay

685
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,440
yellow rather than just a
yellow.

686
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,120
Interesting, but interesting.
It's a whole, you know, as with

687
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,480
any anything like that, you
know, and because it started off

688
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:55,640
as it's, you know, back in back,
back when I was a, you know,

689
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,880
Twinkle and the moment's eye.
It started off out of sort of

690
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,040
different people from different
bands sort of coming together in

691
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,240
a bit of a collective thing.
And then that sort of continued

692
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,560
post ELO with Travelling
Wilburys and that whole Subaru

693
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,720
thing and all that.
So it's yeah, it's always been a

694
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:14,240
bit like that.
And then, and this is yeah, very

695
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,640
much Jeff.
And the, the, the, the late

696
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,560
Richard Tandy was, was on the
first couple of tours as well,

697
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,680
playing, playing piano.
And he, yeah, he unfortunately

698
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,040
passed away last.
Time, yeah.

699
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,400
It's always interesting when
bands do that though, because I

700
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,440
think it confuses the hell out
of the fans at times because

701
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,520
it's like, well, which version
do I want to go see?

702
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,840
Like, I know Queen's Reich,
there's a Jeff Tate's Queen's

703
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,240
Reich, and then there's Queen's
Reich and they're both touring

704
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,760
at the same time, you know?
And it's like, well, which one

705
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,000
do I want to go see?
The one with the singer or the

706
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,440
one with the band, you know?
And the band doesn't have the

707
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,520
whole band, but they've got part
of the band and it's.

708
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,760
Weird.
Yeah, I think there's a little

709
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,840
less of, there's a little less
ambiguity with this.

710
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,080
And yeah, I think mostly just,
you know, the as much as it was

711
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,880
a sort of a collective thing,
Jeff very much wrote, produced.

712
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,880
Did most instrumentation on on
quite a bit.

713
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,320
So it's, yeah, it was kind of
his relatively, yeah, very much

714
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,480
his thing.
And he still sounds pretty good

715
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,400
it he's still.
Still sounds pretty good.

716
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,320
Yeah, he's getting you know, I'm
sure I'm sure he won't be

717
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,960
saying, you know, he's he's you
know, he's what, 76 now.

718
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:30,640
So getting oh, wow, the road is
Tricky's not the right term.

719
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,560
But like, you know, you know, as
with all of us as well as we're

720
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:38,240
ageing, but truly it's harder,
you know, and he is probably

721
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,000
also the first person to say
that, you know, he's always

722
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,400
considered himself a producer
first.

723
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,440
So actually going out doing
those live shows is something

724
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,720
that he's he's very comfortable,
you know, out on it.

725
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,760
You know, we're in Toronto.
There were an absolute barnstorm

726
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,840
of a gig, you know, great, great
crowds.

727
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:53,920
Jeff's on formal.
That's true.

728
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,640
Lovely.
But you know, he it's getting

729
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,000
getting back into that flow a
bit.

730
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,320
You know, we did a we did a one
off late last year.

731
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:07,880
We did this vets aid thing over
in San Diego and yeah, it's that

732
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,840
sort of that thing the night for
Oh, OK.

733
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,880
And then suddenly, oh, OK, cool.
No, we're in we're in a gig now.

734
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,280
That's fine.
Yeah, yeah.

735
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,480
But yeah, so because he's never
really been a big live

736
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,840
performer, you know, in the same
way that some of his

737
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,480
contemporaries still are.
Yeah.

738
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,560
I look at McCartney, for
example, you know, because Jeff

739
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,160
produced, you know, worked for
those guys, all that sort of

740
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,280
thing.
And you know, yeah, he's never

741
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,640
been out on the road in the same
way.

742
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,880
And then, yeah, you know, we
took a big break over COVID and

743
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,840
we were supposed to come back
into, I think, 20/20/21.

744
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,880
I think we talked about doing a
tour and then we sort of moved

745
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,440
that.
So it's yeah, it's been a little

746
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,440
while as well.
So you know, it's, you know,

747
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,400
like like that was coming back
after that was just like, what

748
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:51,480
are we doing?
What's going on?

749
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,920
What's this?
What's this cable do?

750
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,160
That was a tough thing with
COVID, though, with a lot of

751
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,440
these, call them older bands,
you know, it was like, the

752
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,720
longer this takes, the more
unlikely it is that they're

753
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,960
actually going to tour.
And then if they were older,

754
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:10,760
they also wanted to wait a lot
longer, you know?

755
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,800
And it, it, it was interesting.
Like, do you know Cosmo?

756
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:15,800
Yeah, we've met.
Yeah.

757
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,280
So Cosmo was working for Alice
Cooper.

758
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,880
Well, not, I don't think he was
doing Alice Cooper, but he was

759
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,360
doing the Hollywood Vampires,
which is Alice Cooper and Joe

760
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,760
Perry from Aerosmith.
And but anyways, he was doing

761
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,360
that.
He was doing ACDC and he was

762
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,400
doing Aerosmith.
So they were all like in their

763
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,920
70s, right.
And it was like, you know, how

764
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,000
long can we actually wait to,
you know, where we get to a

765
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,080
point of beyond, you know, like,
hey, they can't do her anymore.

766
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,960
They're too old or whatever.
And so that was a concern for

767
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,800
him.
Like his artists were aging

768
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,600
while he was waiting through
COVID.

769
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,880
But it's amazing to me how many
of these artists are pulling it

770
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,760
off.
You know, like, obviously the

771
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,800
Stones being the biggest example
of, you know, Mick is 81 now.

772
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,360
And I saw him sprinting, you
know, sprinting on that ramp

773
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,880
that goes out into the audience,
you know, like literally running

774
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,520
at full pace and then running
back onto the stage.

775
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,680
And this guy's 81 years old.
Like, come on now.

776
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,680
It's, it's really, you know.
I think it depends on the

777
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,760
performers as well.
You know, if if it's the guys

778
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,600
that have been out, that's what
they've done every day of their

779
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,800
lives for the last, what, 6
decades or something.

780
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,320
Absolutely terrifying.
Yeah.

781
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,360
You know, like, like anything,
you know, you retain your, you

782
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,600
retain your physical fitness by
by doing that.

783
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,160
So, yeah, I think that's
probably a bit easier.

784
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,480
But yeah, someone who's, you
know, those artists who are sort

785
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,960
of less on the road and the
rest, I think it yeah, it's it

786
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,280
has been more difficult.
Or the guys who are still

787
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,640
partaking, you know, like trying
to pretend like they're in their

788
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,240
40s or whatever.
And you know, that's not a good

789
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,800
idea either.
And, you know, I think maybe

790
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,400
Steven Tyler might be more of an
example of that, you know, of

791
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,680
someone who forgot that he's in
his 70s and needed to do things

792
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,520
a little differently, perhaps.
I don't know.

793
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,400
But but yeah, it's it's a
bummer.

794
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,800
I mean, I, you know, I just
turned 60.

795
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:20,080
And so for me, like all my
heroes are, you know, aging out

796
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,000
at this point and it's a real
drag.

797
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,800
It's it's really sad.
Like, you know, not I know it

798
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,240
sounds stupid to say that it's
sad when you read the news in

799
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,240
the morning.
And so and so died, you know,

800
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:36,000
like a, a big rock star or even
a movie star or whatever that I

801
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,720
grew up with or grew up around.
And but that's just part of

802
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:42,480
getting old, you know?
All the people.

803
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,800
Around you are dying and.
You know, and friends as well

804
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,760
and all that, sort of.
You know, yeah, that's the

805
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,480
worst.
Yeah, that's the worst.

806
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,120
And it seems like it ramped up
since COVID.

807
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,600
Like it just seems like.
And again, I'm getting older, so

808
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:56,040
all my friends are getting
older.

809
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:57,400
Yeah.
So yeah.

810
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,720
So absolutely, David, how did
you get started in this

811
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:02,640
business?
What?

812
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,600
What inspired this unbelievable,
incredible, glamorous lifestyle

813
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,360
that you now lead?
Oh, the glamour like at home

814
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,360
every night and wash it off.
Yeah.

815
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:20,160
So I, I was not, let's describe
it as particularly academically

816
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,240
gifted.
Yeah, I went to a grammar school

817
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,520
in the UK, which is a, we have a
in certain parts of the UK, we

818
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,200
still have a like a like a
tiered education system.

819
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,080
So I went to the sort of the,
oh, you're, you're, you know,

820
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,400
the, the sort of the higher end
one of those.

821
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:41,760
But I wasn't, you know, I wasn't
that, that kid.

822
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,760
And what I found was I was
doing, you know, very

823
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,120
interesting, like DT, like
design technology and wood shop,

824
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,160
I think you'd call it, right?
You know, that sort of thing.

825
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,200
And and you know, my, my dad was
an electrical engineer.

826
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,080
He works the power station was
live.

827
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,400
So I got into doing little bits
and pieces on like school discos

828
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,800
and stuff and a bit of theatre
in school.

829
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,360
And then, and essentially I
didn't get the qualifications I

830
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,520
would have desired to stay on at
that school to do my sort of A

831
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:15,840
levels, which is we do, we do
sort of up to 16 and then seven

832
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,120
sort of yeah, I'm 16.
So I'm 1617.

833
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,360
You then do next level and then
university after that.

834
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,000
So I didn't, I didn't get to
stay for that.

835
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,760
So I went to, I found a course
at a local college that was

836
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,120
doing like a two year thing that
was technical theatre.

837
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,680
So I went and did, I went and
did that.

838
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,520
And hilariously, my, I was, I
was away doing something and my

839
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,320
mum actually got a, a turn
around with my, my good friend

840
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,880
Rob, who was the in house tech
there and had a chat about it.

841
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,040
And, and so I thought I'll go
and I'll go and do that.

842
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:47,560
That seems that seems
interesting.

843
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,520
It just seemed regular.
It seemed more fun than regular

844
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,720
school I guess, right?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

845
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,880
It was, it was that or go and do
like an apprenticeship or go and

846
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,640
do some sort of, you know, doing
going working with.

847
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,400
I always quite fancied doing
like milling machines or you

848
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,600
know, like actual manufactured.
But so I ended up doing that.

849
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,320
It went quite well.
Sort of just took to it a bit

850
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:14,520
like a touch of water, met
school people and then applied

851
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,120
to, applied to university.
So I went to, I went to, I went

852
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,560
to Mountain View, I went to an
actual bonafide drama school to

853
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:26,320
study lighting, which is I
realized something that not a

854
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,920
lot of people you've had on the
podcast so far have become of

855
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:29,680
that route.
So.

856
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,960
Well, it's, it's a mix like it,
and it's almost split by age.

857
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,240
Like if you're, you know, below
50, there's a good chance you

858
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:38,960
went to some sort of technical
theatre school.

859
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:41,480
If you're above 50, you probably
didn't.

860
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,600
And I mean, it's certainly.
Not yeah, it's not perfect, but.

861
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, See, I did.

862
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:50,840
So I did that.
So I did.

863
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,720
I did a great Mountain View and,
and honestly, what put me there

864
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:59,240
was mostly that they did a, they
did a two year degree course.

865
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,880
It's quite a lot of work, you
know, the, the holidays are

866
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,720
shorter and that sort of thing.
But, but at the time it was, you

867
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:07,560
know, that's, that's a nice
option because again, you know,

868
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,320
I didn't really want to be in
academia for three years more,

869
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:15,360
four years longer, I should say.
And, and it was an interesting

870
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:16,880
thing.
So, yeah, moved to North London

871
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,960
to that, did some work at local
theatres while I was there.

872
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:26,240
Again, met some, met some really
fascinating people and some of

873
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,280
whom have now, you know, for
example, like I worked with

874
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,320
Terry Cook and John Komen in a
Little Theatre in, in North

875
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,840
London where we just go and like
all the amateur shows and things

876
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,520
and, and that sort of stuff.
We were, and now we're all sort

877
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,760
of one swatting around doing
these ridiculous shows.

878
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,520
So, you know, that kind of
thing.

879
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,520
I then, yeah, I finished there.
I got my first job at PRG Europe

880
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,680
as it was at the time in the
Greenford warehouse, basically

881
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,240
fixing me and me and my my
flatmate who I was I was with

882
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,160
all the way through uni.
We both got a job working in the

883
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,080
same Bay at PRG fixing broken
bits of fairy lights.

884
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,160
So how did that work though?
You you were like, did you go to

885
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,200
Plaza or something and they had
a job fair going on or?

886
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,800
I think they had a they did like
an open day at Bradford, I think

887
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,080
for for a bunch of students.
We went in and, you know, we had

888
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,480
a chat about various bits and
pieces and, you know, we do the

889
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,160
whole CV thing, you know, and
the one thing I've been, I've

890
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,480
always been quite lucky with is
just being quite personable and

891
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:36,240
chatting to people.
And so, yeah, sort of got in

892
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:41,960
there and yeah, great, great
first gig because coming from

893
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,120
that whole thing of putting,
putting your shows together on

894
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,840
on one level and, and doing all
of that stuff and doing some

895
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,680
design work and doing some
programming and, and being the

896
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,120
number 2 Carpenter on a couple
of shows and that sort of stuff

897
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:59,560
to oh, this is this is this is
the gig now, this is the, you

898
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,880
know, and having the amount of
people go through, you know, and

899
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,520
especially somewhere like that
PRG shop in London, everybody

900
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,640
goes through it, you know, and
even if you're only ticking away

901
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,920
at the little sort of, you know,
whatever I'm fixing VL one

902
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,600
thousands at the back of the
room all day, you know, you, you

903
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,360
do get to pick up on who
everyone is, say hi to

904
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,200
everybody.
You see how those big shows go

905
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,640
together.
You see how the little shows go

906
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,360
together.
You know, you see a variety of

907
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,440
stuff.
Yeah, because you there was

908
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,160
everything from there was
probably TV awards through to

909
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,400
the RSC going.
Out.

910
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,440
Yeah.
I was going to say there, there

911
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,960
was probably a bit of excitement
involved in just seeing Rd.

912
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,240
cases marked with like Coldplay
or, you know, whatever, name the

913
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,360
artist or show and you're like,
whoa.

914
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,520
And you go home to your friends
or your mom or your girlfriend

915
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,560
or whoever it is.
And you say, you know, I worked

916
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,520
on gear that was going out on
Coldplay today or whatever.

917
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,720
Yeah, exactly.
There's you know, there's a bit

918
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:56,520
of all that and then just, you
know, and my it it fed into my

919
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,520
brain really well.
Like the whole just oh, this is

920
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,280
how VR6 E comes apart.
This is a little back together

921
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,960
on a from like a biscuit tin
level of there are no motors in

922
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,480
this.
There's no dichroic, there's no,

923
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,520
there's nothing.
How do we fix this?

924
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,920
OK, you know, I'm just yeah, it
appealed to me really enjoyed

925
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,200
it.
And again, got really lucky with

926
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,560
a really good group of people
within that, within that

927
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,120
department that have all gone on
to be some really excellent

928
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,480
members of Rd. crew and run
their own companies and all

929
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,400
sorts, which is, which has been
a really nice running theme

930
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,280
really just sort of turning up
at these venues.

931
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,280
And and then, you know, my
contemporaries there have gone

932
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,440
on to be these amazing talented
people.

933
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,640
Yeah.
So yeah, I did that for a while

934
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,320
and then I sort of started to
get a little bit of itchy feet,

935
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,080
you know, and like any warehouse
job, the pay wasn't great.

936
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:51,800
So.
Yeah.

937
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,320
OK, well, you know, so I started
applying for a few bits of

938
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,560
pieces I got, I worked at Drury
Lane in London on the producers

939
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,800
for a few months and then did
some freelance bits and pieces,

940
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,920
went back to PRG to do a couple
of things.

941
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,120
Most of the sales department, I
think that's how I first met

942
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:16,920
like George Masek was, was doing
the doing the first VL 3500 wash

943
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,280
demo.
Wow, that's quite a thing.

944
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,240
Ages me horribly, I'm sure.
Well, but you're getting that,

945
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,200
might be getting that.
I saw the VL 2 demo.

946
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,520
Yeah, I mean it.
Still makes it, still makes me

947
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:32,800
smile every time I turn up at a
job.

948
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,640
And there are still 3500 washes
just there working.

949
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:36,560
He's going.
Yeah, great.

950
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,200
Lovely.
All day long, please.

951
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,880
Yeah.
But yeah, doing doing that sort

952
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,280
of thing.
And then ended up doing so.

953
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,800
It's full David Copperfield bit,
but ended up doing some stuff at

954
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,960
the West End.
Some tech support things are

955
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,480
very like on like their one
thousands or something because

956
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,920
it I just got to know them very
well as a unit and they they

957
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,120
rang me out and we were having
some problems with some sales

958
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,360
units.
Can you pop into town?

959
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:08,280
Ended up working on some on Oh
Cabaret I think.

960
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,640
So you were freelancing at that
point or?

961
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,240
Yeah.
So just sort of literally

962
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:14,520
swanning and going, OK, that's
the problem, we can fix that or

963
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,080
get a new car down, whatever.
And then met the production

964
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:19,280
attrition.
The production attrition was

965
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,280
after touring people.
So then I went and did my first

966
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:25,680
theatre tour for him.
I went straight from that to

967
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,920
what was that?
It was screwed to the musical

968
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,120
for nowhere near enough money
and like six weeks in Sunderland

969
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,640
over Christmas.
And I doubt you've ever been to

970
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,640
Sunderland, but.
I don't think I have.

971
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,560
Is there a racetrack there?
Because if there's a racetrack,

972
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,600
I might have been there, but if
there's no racetrack, I haven't.

973
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:48,200
No, there's a big football
stadium and cold, coldness

974
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:49,640
there.
So where cold comes from?

975
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,760
Yeah, yeah, I'm from Canada, so
I know where cold comes from,

976
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,360
trust me.
So.

977
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,360
So I did a bit of that.
I did, yeah, a few more theatre

978
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,520
tours.
I spent a little bit of time as

979
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,800
sort of a cover at the National
Theatre in London in the

980
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,160
Olivier.
They again needed a moving light

981
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,720
tech because theirs was away
touring something for them.

982
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,440
Let me ask you something though.
Were you was was theatre pulling

983
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,720
you but it didn't pay well
enough so Rock'n'roll ended up

984
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:23,560
winning or or were you sort of
split on what you wanted to do?

985
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,520
I I I think I'm still split on
but I don't really know what I

986
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,720
want to do still and.
There's any of?

987
00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:34,760
Us and I'm looking at a sharp
end of 40 so yeah, no, I really

988
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,680
enjoy the process but it's also
it's what I knew I think yeah,

989
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,800
as much as anything else you
know when it comes to when you

990
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,680
know something you sort of
centred veer towards that right.

991
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,440
Well, I know a lot of, I know a
lot of technical people who, who

992
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,000
really love theatre, but they
sort of had to leave in order to

993
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,760
be able to feed their family and
stuff.

994
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,920
And, you know, I think that
there's actors in that same

995
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,200
role, right?
Like actors go back and do

996
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,800
theatre just for the love of of
acting, but they do movies to to

997
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,240
pay their bills, right?
So.

998
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,840
Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's
has changed a little bit in in

999
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,240
in certain ways.
Like certainly, you know,

1000
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:18,960
production staff on the larger
shows are paid a very comparable

1001
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,440
to rate to what I'd be getting
paid to be a member of Roku.

1002
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,920
Good, good.
It should be that way.

1003
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:28,440
That entirely does depend on the
show and the producer and how

1004
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,760
much you're willing to fight for
it really, you know, and you

1005
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,800
know, and you know, at the Union
High or so, but how much you're

1006
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,040
willing to say no to as well.
Yeah, you know, and, and there

1007
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,560
are some people.
That was important to oh.

1008
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,000
It is hugely important and you
know most of us.

1009
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,880
Don't know how to do it but.
I've had to really learn hard

1010
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,080
how to say better things, like
it's because I was that guy that

1011
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,680
would just say yes to everything
and then I was tired and

1012
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,280
exhausted and not very good.
Yeah.

1013
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:01,320
So learning how to say no
properly is, yeah, he's key,

1014
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:02,480
really.
I get it.

1015
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,160
I agree completely.
It's probably more, you know,

1016
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,200
again, I talked to a lot of
folks that are in their 60s and

1017
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,640
50s and whatever.
And, and one of the common

1018
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,680
themes is, you know, like if I,
if I were to ask someone, what's

1019
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,720
your advice to young kids these
days, they'll say, say yes to

1020
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:21,680
everything and then figure it
out.

1021
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,560
Like that's a really common
theme and it still rings true

1022
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,120
today, but I think that's maybe
at the front end of your career

1023
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,120
more than it is your entire
career.

1024
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,680
Like as you get more
established, you have to learn

1025
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,600
to say no to a lot more things
than you're saying yes to.

1026
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:39,760
Yeah.
And then you can, you know, you

1027
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:44,520
can put yourself in a position
where it's a lot easier to say

1028
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:49,240
no.
I mean, I, I, I've brought a

1029
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:54,200
house and have a dog and another
half and, you know, so I want to

1030
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,200
go and enjoy this thing.
So, so, but by, I got all of

1031
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,920
that by grafting really, really
hard for, for a number of years.

1032
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,160
And I put a big deposit down,
but I put a big deposit down

1033
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,800
because I was either staying at
a friend of mine's quite cheap

1034
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,600
or I was effectively living at
the back of my car when I was,

1035
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,760
you know, I was going to hotels
to prep.

1036
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,360
I would do a tour, I would come
back.

1037
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,960
I would go straight into the
next prep for 18 months, you

1038
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,960
know I didn't.
Make a lot of sense.

1039
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,040
Myself for about money.
Well, it really does yeah, you

1040
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,760
know, but then but then now I'm
in a position where I finished

1041
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:32,520
doing Elena Fisher last year and
then I put enough money where to

1042
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:33,600
go.
I'm going to four months off.

1043
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,560
I'm just not going to do
anything till whatever.

1044
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,240
Good for you, good for you.
And then and then I took a

1045
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,520
couple of a couple of weeks here
and a couple of weeks there and

1046
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,520
that ended up till June and then
OK, great.

1047
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,720
That's that's a much better we
talk about work life balance

1048
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:48,880
that's a really nice work life
balance and graph for the half

1049
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:50,600
of 6 months and then do nothing
six months.

1050
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,800
That's great Yeah, that's
amazing.

1051
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,520
Yeah, well, when you.
Do that on purpose, like when

1052
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,480
you're forced to do that, it's
no fun typically because you're

1053
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,600
not prepared or whatever.
Like Covic?

1054
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,720
You know 2.
Years off sounds amazing, Yeah

1055
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,440
isn't it?
Unless you only have one month

1056
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,440
worth of money put aside or
whatever.

1057
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,920
Yeah, very much so.
And I, I was, I was very

1058
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,680
fortunate a few years before I
was very, very busy.

1059
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,800
I had a lot of work on it.
And it also meant that I hit

1060
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,000
COVID.
And then I, the way that the UK

1061
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,360
government did their support, I
missed out because essentially

1062
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,080
because I don't see much money.
All of that money was spent on

1063
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,840
re tanking my basement or
getting my new, my office

1064
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,800
building sorted and all this
sort of I've got no access to

1065
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,800
any of that money because why
would I?

1066
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,880
But yeah, so it's, yeah, some of
those problems.

1067
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,720
But I think the big, the big
part for me, the, the theatre to

1068
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,000
theatre going into Rock'n'roll
thing was I worked for Sutsley

1069
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:53,080
for about 4 1/2 years or so.
So I got brought on originally

1070
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,640
as a moving light tech because
they were going in to do it was

1071
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,200
at the sort of the very
beginnings of when they were

1072
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:05,480
moving to do arena shows.
So obviously circus sort of

1073
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:09,280
known for its big Vegas things,
but and they're and they're big

1074
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,120
tops, you know, and then they go
into town for six weeks, two

1075
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:17,000
months longer.
And they were taking they'd

1076
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,880
already done salt and Bunker and
that had gone quite well.

1077
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,200
And they were doing redoing
Alegria.

1078
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,920
And Alegria was sort of the at
the time as one of the jewels in

1079
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,400
the crowns, one of those
original Franco Jago directors

1080
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,960
pieces.
So adding another person to the

1081
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,080
lighting department, wanted a
moving light tech, wanted

1082
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,040
someone with a weekly move
experience.

1083
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,600
And then so I sort of fitted the
bill.

1084
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,720
So I did a couple of months to
beat up with them, went to

1085
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,440
Montreal, did recreation, went
out and tour with them for two

1086
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,120
years and then went to Kadam,
did very similar role.

1087
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:52,280
But essentially that put that
sort of shifted my thing from

1088
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,360
very theatre and running shows
and doing that too arena touring

1089
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,320
like, you know, not quite as run
and gun as it is now.

1090
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,120
You know, we're not doing 5
shows in a week and all that

1091
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,080
sort of thing, You know, doing
go in and do it.

1092
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:10,280
But but knowing those systems,
knowing those people, the vast

1093
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,480
majority of the time I spent in
the US as well.

1094
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:17,880
So learning how to work with
union crew and and run those

1095
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,520
guys and and all those skills
that you.

1096
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,440
Just learn by doing and there's
no there's no easy way of doing

1097
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,360
it.
He's just how big is a

1098
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:28,960
management?
How big is a lighting crew on a

1099
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,440
on a circ tour?
On a circ tour, my mom was four

1100
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:33,640
people.
OK.

1101
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,040
Yeah, yeah.
It was four of us.

1102
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:39,880
We'd had some some of the
carpenters that swing in and

1103
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:44,360
run, follow spot tracks.
And then I think at the time, I

1104
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,400
mean, this is going back about
1012 years now, if not more, 16

1105
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:53,040
maybe.
But we had I think 8 people on 6

1106
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,520
or 8 on the in and 10 on the
out, something from, from local

1107
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,640
staff.
You know, it's just not too bad.

1108
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:00,680
You move in the show once a
week.

1109
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,280
So there's plenty, plenty of
things.

1110
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,320
And it's like, you know, it's
like anywhere we would, we would

1111
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,920
be doing those sort of B&C
markets, we wouldn't be doing

1112
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,040
anywhere that we can sell a big
top for six weeks.

1113
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,480
We'd be doing all these little
things like, you know, you know,

1114
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,400
because we'd come up and do like
Kamloops and Kelowna and

1115
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,040
Victoria and that sort of stuff.
It was just.

1116
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:23,240
Breaking my language, yeah.
I mean, one beautiful 2.

1117
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,320
I got to see some parts of the
US and Canada that you would, as

1118
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,440
a Brit, you would never have a
reason to go to.

1119
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,560
Yeah.
And then you spend a week there.

1120
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,120
And I think we used to joke, you
know, if the town's, if it's not

1121
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:35,880
a great place, you don't want to
be here particularly, you're

1122
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,440
only there for a week.
But if it's quite nice, well,

1123
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:38,680
you're there for a whole week.
So it's great.

1124
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,600
So.
Yeah, that and that's really

1125
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,200
what shifted me.
So when I got back to the UKI

1126
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,320
did a few theatre things again
because I sort of knew enough

1127
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:53,040
people got back in with PRG and
like Pete Marshall gave me some

1128
01:01:53,040 --> 01:02:00,040
jobs and John Cabaret gave me.
I went and did 01 of the Bee

1129
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,200
Gees.
That's bad.

1130
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,600
OK, I did a tour with that,
which is really nice and, and

1131
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:10,840
some of the Elton crew.
So sort of did a bit of that and

1132
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:16,680
then fell into fell into neg
earth because of, oh, a couple

1133
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,560
of factors.
One being that they were, they

1134
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,520
were supplying the extras for
circ and I sort of popped back

1135
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,640
to the Albert Hall show because
it was my old show and they

1136
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:26,600
needed some cover and some
helps.

1137
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,280
I'm like, Yep, great.
I'm not very far away.

1138
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,480
It's a, you know, a train's a
lot cheaper than a flight.

1139
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,080
And then yes, I fell on at neg
earth through that and and Terry

1140
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,640
Cook give me a or giving Julian
a recommendation and and it's

1141
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,000
all sort of gone, gone from
there really is how I've ended

1142
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,640
up doing this sort of
rock'n'roll thing.

1143
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,360
And that that's that big
transition really was was going

1144
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:52,680
to circ and doing that, doing
that change from sort of the

1145
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,720
maybe sort of the biggest way
that I'd like a theatre style

1146
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:00,240
show kind of to her into
actually how rock'n'roll tours

1147
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,800
on a regular basis.
That's that's awesome.

1148
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:07,480
You know, I mean it again, it's
sort of unconventional when you

1149
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,840
look at how most people came
into our industry.

1150
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,760
But I think it's a much more
realistic and reasonable way to

1151
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,120
come into the industry because
the other one sort of relies on

1152
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,440
a lot of luck and who you know
and running into the right guy

1153
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,200
at the right pub you know, and
now.

1154
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,200
There's still a lot of that,
yeah, yeah, you know, and the

1155
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:28,520
UK, we're quite lucky in that
all the pubs are a lot closer

1156
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:29,760
together.
Yeah, that's.

1157
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:31,520
True.
Yeah, you don't have to travel

1158
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,320
as far to find a gig.
But no, I mean, especially now,

1159
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:41,160
you know, since since the C word
COVID, you know, every large

1160
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:46,360
lighting company, touring act,
sound company, staging company,

1161
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:49,320
they're all looking for people
like people right now.

1162
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,640
You know, you're the the, the
most sought after piece or

1163
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,720
component of a show.
And especially good people, you

1164
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,040
know, because there's so many
new people who have come into

1165
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,960
the industry now.
So I think that, you know, for,

1166
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:09,280
for schools to have proper, you
know, training or education to

1167
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,600
get you at least started.
I still don't know why it always

1168
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,160
has to go through theater.
I mean, maybe that's a good

1169
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:16,280
direction.
I don't know.

1170
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,680
Like over here, we've got Full
Sail in the United States and

1171
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,560
it's not completely reliable,
but it's a decent school.

1172
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,360
You know, it's a private school,
so it's more expensive and and

1173
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,200
they've got their own agenda or
whatever, but that's been a

1174
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,360
pretty good training ground for,
for quality lighting and sound

1175
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,560
people.
But, you know, I still wish

1176
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:42,080
there were like this is still
viewed as a band of gypsies, you

1177
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,080
know, it's, it's, yeah, hugely.
It's still not a real career.

1178
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,400
I think there's a real lack of
understanding maybe about the

1179
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,680
about the where we now have to
exist.

1180
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:00,000
Like so my so my if I'm not here
doing direction, if I'm not

1181
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,880
essentially if I'm not operating
a show, my main, my main skill

1182
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,440
set is actually doing like
lighting control systems, so

1183
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:13,400
networking and data and all that
sort of stuff.

1184
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:19,520
And that's not something that
you can sort of really quantify.

1185
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,800
Like when people go roadie,
they'll go, oh, OK, yeah,

1186
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:24,920
that's, that's the image I've
got.

1187
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,680
And not, Oh no, this is really
specifically what I do.

1188
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,200
Yeah.
This this really, really tiny

1189
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,400
subset.
Or if you look at Dave Evans,

1190
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,200
like Automation Edition, he
considered an automation

1191
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:36,120
mechanic.
He doesn't really like

1192
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,200
operating, but he is exceptional
at making everything work.

1193
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,120
And or if you look at like the
the PA systems guys, again,

1194
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,720
we've all got very, very
specialist, incredibly,

1195
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:54,280
incredibly sort of technical
knowledge and a workspace we're

1196
01:05:54,280 --> 01:06:00,040
now in that is a lot more, a lot
more so than maybe it used to

1197
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,880
be, you know, you know, Oh, I'm
a I'm a lampion rock and alter

1198
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:08,120
great.
But actually what I do, I do, I

1199
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,680
make the tiny wires, do the tiny
wire business.

1200
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,360
And you know, like my dignity
comments kiss kiss does kiss

1201
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,080
does heavy mains all day long,
please.

1202
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:18,560
One of the rest of the world at
it.

1203
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,440
And that's what he does.
And he knows he knows enough

1204
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,840
about the bits I do and and vice
versa.

1205
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,720
But like the, the, the the
specialisms and the skill set

1206
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,880
and the knowledge required for
some of these jobs now is so

1207
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,480
specific.
I mean, even even operating and

1208
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,520
programming, you know, I'll be
the first person to say I'm not.

1209
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,680
I'm not the best program in the
world by by any stretch, you

1210
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,680
know, but those guys have to
know such a specific thing.

1211
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,720
Why they, they, they shouldn't
have to worry about any of the

1212
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:46,560
rest of it.
Yeah.

1213
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:47,880
Yeah.
I think we've come from a very

1214
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,400
broad church and actually now
everything is, it's a lot more

1215
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,360
compartmentalized.
Well, the size and I think it's

1216
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:55,240
a good, I think it's a good
thing.

1217
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:56,800
Yeah, absolutely.
And what we're trying to do with

1218
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,960
them.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I

1219
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,800
remember a day not that long ago
when, when there weren't video

1220
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,200
directors out on tour, You know,
it was just kind of part of what

1221
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,400
the lighting director did.
You know, he, he queued video

1222
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:14,480
things and you know, now they're
so complex.

1223
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,720
I mean, video is such a big part
of the show and there's all

1224
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:22,760
kinds of specialized things
there, talent, skills, whatever.

1225
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,520
And, and then video texts as
well.

1226
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,240
You know, you can't just get the
lighting guys to take care of

1227
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,880
the video stuff because it's
entirely different.

1228
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,320
And even from a lighting
standpoint, like it's so

1229
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,040
different, you know, you
probably don't have to drop

1230
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,960
lights as often as you did when
you first started, especially VL

1231
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,360
3 thousands, 35 hundreds, you
know, any name the brand.

1232
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,320
Like if it had a a 1200 Watt
lamp in it, chances are it was

1233
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,560
wreaking havoc inside that
fixture and things were not

1234
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,760
working on a daily basis.
Yeah.

1235
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,160
So that's, that's entirely fair.
Yeah, we're not.

1236
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,120
We're not stopping at anywhere
near as many.

1237
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,520
I would also present to you
though, that the second that

1238
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:08,040
light's on the floor, you're
struggling to fix it because

1239
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,640
everything inside it, you know,
the, the, the technology we've

1240
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:14,080
now put into these tiny packages
is so much more detailed.

1241
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:18,840
And because we don't have,
because we sort of lost it,

1242
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,800
because you sort of lose it in a
number of years, a very short

1243
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,120
number of years.
That that fault finding moving

1244
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:27,880
light knowledge that you sort of
is, you're kind of first if

1245
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:29,800
you've worked on the, if you've
worked on the bench in the

1246
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,600
warehouse for a long time.
And then you go out on the road,

1247
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,439
you sort of start OK tech or
maybe moving light tech if

1248
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:36,720
you've worked in the moving
light department.

1249
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,479
But that, that knowledge
disappears really quickly when

1250
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,160
you can't fix those lights on
the road.

1251
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,520
You know, as much as that's a
good point as some of those

1252
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,120
older fixtures, yeah, the three
KS, the two KS, the six CS, the

1253
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:52,680
fives that that sort of mainstay
of, of Rock'n'roll touring for a

1254
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:56,720
long time.
As much as yeah, you had to fix

1255
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:00,800
them a lot, you could also fix
them, you know, It's not you,

1256
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,040
the bits.
And it's funny, but it's similar

1257
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,240
to funding, similar to cars and,
and a lot of other things, you

1258
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,000
know, televisions, you know,
like, I mean, when something

1259
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,359
used to go wrong with an
electrical component, whatever

1260
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:16,240
it was, you could fix it.
Nowadays it's like forget it.

1261
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,439
Like you either replace it or
send it back to the company or

1262
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:21,760
something.
It's all this, you know, real

1263
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,680
heavy duty electronic kind of
stuff now as opposed to just

1264
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,200
swapping out a component, Yeah.
And we agree with you, you know,

1265
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,640
and I think in a lot of ways
rattling, rattling through

1266
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,240
products at the pace that we
seem to be as well.

1267
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,439
You know, I think again, there's
a so didn't need to turn into

1268
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,240
the Dave Loves VL 335 watch
podcast.

1269
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:49,080
But but if you took a fixture,
you took take any modern

1270
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,040
fixture, like any top of the
line brand new thing.

1271
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,800
And you said to somebody, OK,
cool, I am still going to be

1272
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:01,360
using whatever LED engine thing.
I'm still going to using that in

1273
01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:05,600
16 years time on a mid to top
level show.

1274
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,760
Yeah, you're not going to.
Chances are you're not telling

1275
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:10,960
the truth.
Yeah, I.

1276
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,600
Don't think some companies are
doing some really good work in

1277
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:14,840
that space.
Yeah.

1278
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,960
And in terms of reliability and
stuff, I think the new you've

1279
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,400
seen that upgrade thing they're
doing on the 26 hundreds or the

1280
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,360
variants.
Yeah, I think that's very cool.

1281
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,640
Brilliant.
Yeah, it's really good and it's

1282
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,320
actually reclaiming all the
parts and the rest of it.

1283
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,680
I think that's great.
I think Roby have got some stuff

1284
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,760
going on where you can replace
the engines and all that sort of

1285
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:38,840
thing.
There there is some.

1286
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,360
Longevity of that stuff is is
going to.

1287
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,480
Be, Yeah, there's some marketing
to that, by the way.

1288
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:43,720
Like that, of course there's
some.

1289
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,840
Roby Roby have done it as a
really slick package.

1290
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:51,640
It's very expensive, but with
virtually every LED moving light

1291
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:55,040
you can replace the engine, it's
just in many.

1292
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,840
Cases you could replace the
engine because I still am in

1293
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,520
possession of a screwdriver and
the ability to correct it.

1294
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:02,680
Yeah, correct.
So just the fact that it doesn't

1295
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,680
pop out as a really slick
module.

1296
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,000
Yeah, you know, like they're
trying to make that sort of the

1297
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,240
marketing of it all and make it
seem like it's a really cool

1298
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:13,840
thing.
We're the only ones who do this.

1299
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,800
But and ask any moving like tech
or or manufacturer.

1300
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:22,040
They'll say any ask any large
lighting hire company who's been

1301
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:26,080
asked to change which engine is
in the back of an Edson fixture.

1302
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,720
It's the same.
Yeah, we need the high CRI ones

1303
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:29,520
and that's OK.
Great.

1304
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,320
Well, we'll, we'll, yeah, we'll
just get the guys.

1305
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,440
And by the way, how often are
you changing those?

1306
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:37,280
Like not very often, not very
often.

1307
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:40,720
So no, you know, and, and plus
by the time most of these LED

1308
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,040
engines will wear out, most I
say, cuz there's some that have

1309
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:48,520
worn out way prematurely, but by
the time most of these will wear

1310
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:52,040
out, there's a way newer fixture
that you're probably pretty

1311
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,720
focused on and that.
Well, this is it.

1312
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:56,360
That light's going to be gone.
And then what we've got is a big

1313
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,000
pile of landfill.
Yeah, correct.

1314
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,480
Which is a shame.
Well, but I mean, what are

1315
01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:04,920
people doing with Martin Pals or
Mac 2000s?

1316
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,280
Or like we have I own I own
Hope.

1317
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,600
In the Mac 2000s, I mean, they
generally will set themselves on

1318
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:12,760
fire, but hopefully they're
burning them because if they

1319
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:14,760
just throw them away, there's
every possibility someone will

1320
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:16,760
find them again, and none of us
want that.

1321
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:22,040
I I, I own gear Source and we
have a listing that I saw a

1322
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:28,240
couple days ago popped in, I
believe it was Mac 2000 wash X

1323
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:33,480
BS.
And they're like, I think 2 in a

1324
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:38,280
road case was $145.00 and they
had like 100 of them or

1325
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,920
something.
But you know, I mean, to

1326
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,040
someone, somewhere, maybe that's
got value and maybe they'll go,

1327
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:48,520
Oh my God, I could buy twenty of
these for freaking, you know,

1328
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:52,600
1200 bucks or whatever.
And then pay the shipping.

1329
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,880
It's going to be about what you.
Pay the shipping is going to be

1330
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,800
more than the lights probably.
And then, you know, the first

1331
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,360
time you need to replace a
board, that's going to be the

1332
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,440
price of all 20 that you just
bought.

1333
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:04,840
And so, yeah, I mean, it's,
yeah.

1334
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:07,920
Or it's disposable, or it's or
it's yeah.

1335
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:09,800
Or it just goes, oh, OK, well,
that one's done.

1336
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:12,520
And it goes into into the big
skip out the back.

1337
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,720
And I think the only reason that
didn't happen to some of the

1338
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,640
verilites is because PRG bought
the company and so they looked

1339
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:22,120
at the VL 5 and went, this thing
is so super popular.

1340
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:26,080
Or it was, and now it's kind of
finally seeing its end.

1341
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,440
Let's put LEDs in them.
You know I am.

1342
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:30,960
I am yet to see one in real life
and I'm, oh really?

1343
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:32,760
I'm a little bit excited about
it.

1344
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,240
Yeah, yeah, I've.
Seen it because I I still think

1345
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,200
it's a great.
Yeah, of course it is.

1346
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,000
It's it's.
You know, it terrifies me the

1347
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,840
amount of money every single one
of those units must have made

1348
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,880
over the years.
Insane, insane amounts of money.

1349
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:50,400
You know, I've had designers on
here who, who, you know, from

1350
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,760
the earliest days on, like we're
using thousands of those things

1351
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:58,920
on like the Grammy Awards or the
Academy Awards or, you know, the

1352
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,760
Olympics or whatever.
And it was just like every show,

1353
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,960
OK, you know, the foundation of
our lighting package is 1000 VL

1354
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:07,760
fives.
And then on top of that, we want

1355
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:09,720
all this other eye candy stuff,
right?

1356
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:14,640
I mean, it's, it's just crazy.
And you know, like one designer

1357
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,920
told me that.
He said I did the math once and

1358
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,560
I was responsible for, I can't
remember the number, but it was

1359
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,480
something like $50 million in VL
5 rentals alone.

1360
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:27,680
You know, just some insane
number.

1361
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:28,600
And I was like.
Rentals.

1362
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:33,120
Not even buying them rentals.
Yeah, 50 million in VL 5

1363
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:35,680
rentals.
Yeah, yes, insane.

1364
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:40,320
Although I did I did turn up to
a venue in Spain the about 06

1365
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:47,960
weeks ago and the back trusts
had half a dozen Mac 2000 wash

1366
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,560
XPS on it.
Oh really?

1367
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,080
I just laughed.
Well, do me a favor and ask them

1368
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:53,680
if they want another hundred.
Yeah.

1369
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:56,280
We'll do, yeah.
Yeah, real light show there.

1370
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,480
I don't know if this if the
ceiling will hurt there and just

1371
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:01,840
go, right.
I used to know this.

1372
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,880
How do you turn the lamp on?
That's funny.

1373
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:06,520
That's hilarious.
Yeah.

1374
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:11,440
So funny.
So, you know, you started you

1375
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:15,040
started this control company
show Binary, which I think is a

1376
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:18,840
cool name and you started it I
think with a few partners.

1377
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,880
And yeah, so, so tell me, tell
me about the need that created

1378
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:26,400
you to to start that company and
when it happened and all that

1379
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:28,160
stuff.
There's a number of things.

1380
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:34,440
So one of them was the the
hilarious conversation

1381
01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:36,760
occasionally at various places
that Dave, we just clone you in

1382
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:38,400
another one of you.
OK yeah, great.

1383
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:46,360
And I think the just doing all
that stuff properly is, is it's

1384
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:47,640
not tricky.
I don't think that's fair.

1385
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,720
But everybody's got a slightly
different opinion on how to do

1386
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,840
it.
And, and I think it's a part of

1387
01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:00,480
the market and a part of the
industry that there's a lot of

1388
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:03,600
people are still a bit scared of
what Ethicon cable does.

1389
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:06,960
You know, you sort of know we
are about 5 pin.

1390
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,080
It comes out of the desk, it
goes into that light, light

1391
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:14,040
wangs around, everyone's happy.
Going Ethernet and doing all

1392
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,480
that networking stuff is still
something that I think a number

1393
01:16:17,480 --> 01:16:22,040
of people are not confident
with.

1394
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:23,000
Maybe.
Yeah, they're a little

1395
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,000
uncomfortable.
Yeah, exactly.

1396
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:29,520
So what we've we've tried to do
is basically go, OK, we're going

1397
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,000
to start a networking company
and we're going to look after

1398
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:38,600
tiny wires based projects.
So we sort of, we started off,

1399
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:43,160
we were doing a few things with
an LD out of the UK called Phil

1400
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:44,920
Supple.
So we look after a thing called,

1401
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:48,560
Oh, what's it called now,
Lindsey lighting.

1402
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,800
But basically, you know, these
big Christmas trails, you know,

1403
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:52,560
the sort of the Harry Potter S
things.

1404
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,200
But we started off with one of
those and we went down the first

1405
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,480
year and in sorts of bits out
and the next went right, we're

1406
01:16:58,480 --> 01:16:59,560
going to network this whole
thing.

1407
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:01,760
We're going to put a network
across the entire site.

1408
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:05,840
So we go and we're on our fifth
year of it now, and we do

1409
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,000
kilometer and a half fiber optic
cable around the site.

1410
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,520
Armoured fiber optic cable
because they've got deer and

1411
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,000
Wallabies that chew on the cable
because of course they do.

1412
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:17,800
Yeah, why not?
But it means that we can

1413
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,120
suddenly start going, well, we
can wander around with tablets

1414
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:25,800
and log into the MA on PC and
tech everything and everything's

1415
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,160
connected and controlled from
one place rather than all being

1416
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:32,160
these little sheds with an MA in
or a shed with an or a shed with

1417
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:34,080
a playback device of someone
like of some kind.

1418
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:37,360
And then, you know, then we can
then we start going, well, we

1419
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:40,120
can do three.
We did like one time coded show.

1420
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:43,200
We could do three now because we
can run Q lab from there and

1421
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:47,040
spit it all out over Dante and
we can pick up the time code in

1422
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,000
the office and we can send the
audio out on site.

1423
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:55,280
And so we started sort of we
started there and then doing,

1424
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,840
you know, a few custom build
things like some LED projects

1425
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,160
and stuff, you know, pixel
strips and pixel tape kind of

1426
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:05,040
bits and pieces.
But our background has always

1427
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,720
sort of been in between me and
the two business.

1428
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:12,760
So Dom, Dom Smith, who's an Lt.
in his own right, Dom and and PJ

1429
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:15,920
and PJPJ should have on here.
By the way, it's fascinating.

1430
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:21,560
Now, PJ, thank you.
I will begin the architectural

1431
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:26,160
space works at Ayrton at the
moment did the vast majority of

1432
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:30,280
the work on the sphere in Vegas,
technical, technical design.

1433
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:39,080
So yeah, we sort of got together
and just sort of trying to get,

1434
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:42,480
you know, trying to do those
those projects that are just

1435
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,560
maybe slightly out of reach of
what most people want to be be

1436
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,680
doing.
There are there's a lot of kit

1437
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,560
out there, some amazing bits of
kit really, really cover stuff,

1438
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:55,760
but it's a lot of people
invested a lot of money in in

1439
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:58,400
equipment and maybe don't quite
know what to do with it.

1440
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:03,320
So a big thing that we're now
pushing and you know, when I was

1441
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,520
down at the guys at that fuse
this new shop in Lititz the

1442
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,760
other day doing some training
with them.

1443
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:13,200
So doing doing training on
networking equipment, some of it

1444
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:16,720
quite special, some of it like
very hyper focused in on like

1445
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,400
the Luminex products.
That's what we own, but also

1446
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:25,000
sort of going through with, with
with their crew chiefs of their

1447
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,200
technicians that are using stuff
and going, this is what we

1448
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:32,000
consider to be best practice.
And this is what an IP address

1449
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:36,680
is and does.
And, you know, this is how we

1450
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,760
look at what different fibres
look like, you know, and, and

1451
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:44,080
sort of going through inside,
you know, a big thing for us is,

1452
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:46,080
is moving into that training
space.

1453
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:48,680
And a big part of that training
space is, is, you know,

1454
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,120
empowering people to have some
knowledge about this kit.

1455
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,320
Yeah, you know, it makes a lot
of sense.

1456
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:56,760
You know, it makes a lot of
sense.

1457
01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:00,800
And I mean as again, one thing
that I don't think is going to

1458
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:05,920
slow down anytime soon is, is
the size of both on the install

1459
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:10,800
side and on the the temporary
rental side as well.

1460
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:14,440
But the size of these shows, you
know, like I I recently had Ola

1461
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:20,280
Melzig Eurovision on the podcast
and, you know, this year's.

1462
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,360
System, network, whatever you
want to call that monstrosity.

1463
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:27,880
I can't remember how many
consoles it was, but it was a

1464
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,800
lot.
It was a lot of it was like 72

1465
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,880
universes or no, it was more
than that.

1466
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,080
I mean, it was, it was an, I
mean, I, you know, I do, I do a

1467
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,640
lot of work with a lot of work
with Tim Routledge and and Tom

1468
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:39,720
Young.
Yeah.

1469
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,280
And Alex Parsell, who, who did
the one in the UK and.

1470
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:44,800
Yeah, you know, I didn't, I
didn't, I was out looking after

1471
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,880
Helena Fisher.
But even that, even Helena's 156

1472
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:51,080
universes, Yeah, that's whatever
I'm merging in from D3 to

1473
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:53,160
control all the spiders and
everything else, you know.

1474
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:54,440
Yeah.
Go back to your early example.

1475
01:20:54,440 --> 01:20:56,960
Remember when a big show was a
Hog 2 with an OverDrive box?

1476
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,080
Yeah, exactly on it.
Exactly.

1477
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,800
You know, So, yeah.
So taking care of taking care of

1478
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,600
a bit of that, you know, because
everything is now becoming

1479
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:10,040
converged in a very different
way to in a very different way

1480
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:14,440
to how I think the industry saw
it going about 10 years ago.

1481
01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:16,800
Where was that whole lighting
video convergence thing that

1482
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:18,920
sort of went, oh, OK, yeah, this
is a really good idea.

1483
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:22,120
No, no, no, maybe not.
And there is still an element of

1484
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:23,680
that.
But but, you know, networking is

1485
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:25,040
tying so much more stuff
together.

1486
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,040
We as an industry are pushing,
we're pushing some stuff, but

1487
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,400
also we're not doing anything
that isn't stuff we could do in

1488
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:34,960
the late 90s, early 2000s.
Yeah, yeah.

1489
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:37,320
You know, some changes of
course.

1490
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:39,760
Quickly one second, David, I
just wanted to go back to this

1491
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,480
because I just Googled it while
we were talking.

1492
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:46,640
Yeah, the so this year's
Univision was 200,000 parameters

1493
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:52,560
of control across 682 DMX
universes of output, 663

1494
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:56,800
universes of Arc net input from
the disguise video servers

1495
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:02,400
running on 14 MA, 3 full
consoles, 5 main lighting show

1496
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:05,960
programmers all working in one
session, La La la.

1497
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:10,120
I mean, it's just an insane rig.
So, yeah, but it's also that

1498
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:16,000
that thing of there are there
are people out there who are

1499
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:20,120
hesitant to sort of engage with
networking and you start to read

1500
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,280
off stuff like that and you go,
this isn't going away.

1501
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,960
No, Get on board.
So I think it's brilliant.

1502
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:31,160
I, I think it's what you're
doing, you know, which I don't

1503
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,400
even know that much about yet
and I want to know a lot more.

1504
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,360
But I think what you're doing,
even just from a networking

1505
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:40,160
standpoint, like to provide sort
of that high level of network

1506
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,480
that, you know, expertise when
somebody is engaging in a

1507
01:22:44,480 --> 01:22:47,240
larger, like the sphere is
another great example.

1508
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:50,720
You know, when there's a lot of
new stuff going on, it's bigger,

1509
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,640
there's more components, there's
more things connecting to each

1510
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,640
other.
Let's bring these people in as

1511
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,280
experts.
That's the, that's the idea.

1512
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:00,720
Yeah.
It's, it's to sort of get

1513
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:03,520
everybody.
You know, my, my big thing is,

1514
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,760
you know, I, I think we should
all be constantly pushing stuff

1515
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:07,760
forward, right?
So, yeah.

1516
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,200
So yeah, my, my big thing.
And what came out of a lot of

1517
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:14,240
conversations with a lot of
companies in the UK and a

1518
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:18,400
certain amount over here was,
was the training thing.

1519
01:23:18,440 --> 01:23:20,280
You know, these companies own
the kit.

1520
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,920
You know, we've got, we've got
an amount of rental stock, but

1521
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,440
nothing, you know, nothing
really huge.

1522
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:33,680
You know, it's not, it's not a
space where we're planning to

1523
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:36,400
sort of, we're not suddenly
you're going to be like, oh,

1524
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:40,280
we've got 60 MP us and 400
Luminax Giga cores and whatever.

1525
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:45,360
We're not, we're not that.
But if you've got, if you've got

1526
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:50,680
kit and skills and people and,
and you want to make all this

1527
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,040
stuff work and you want to be
consistent and that sort of

1528
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,880
thing, that's where we're, we're
trying to work is, is a

1529
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:58,160
combination of, yeah, doing this
training and delivery stuff and

1530
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:00,360
we're trying to expand our, our
training options.

1531
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:03,760
Yeah.
You know, it started off

1532
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,520
essentially we do.
We do like a one day Ethernet

1533
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:12,320
for roadies course that is
completely agnostic to equipment

1534
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:16,880
for the most part.
Like there's a bit of in that

1535
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,680
one is a little bit of this is
how you make data come out of an

1536
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,080
MA2.
These are all the things you

1537
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:22,920
need to look at.
Same for an MA three.

1538
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:25,960
I would like to move that on to
being a Ethernet for this

1539
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:27,840
technicians that are very
similar thing.

1540
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:30,440
But with the E OS platform.
I need to go away and learn the

1541
01:24:30,440 --> 01:24:34,360
E OS platform because I don't
have it, you know, that sort of

1542
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:35,840
thing.
And then you have fuse.

1543
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,680
We did a 2 day thing that went a
lot more in detail into the

1544
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:42,920
Luminex kit and how are our auto
functions and and again, some

1545
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,080
more of that best practice
stuff.

1546
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:48,200
But but the the one day thing is
very much it's not there to make

1547
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:49,920
everybody a systems technician
over there.

1548
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:52,560
Yeah, it's there to get
everybody comfortable with

1549
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:56,840
Ethernet or at least start to go
down that road to get them

1550
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,680
comfortable with it in the same
way that people are comfortable

1551
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:03,640
with five pin data.
It's an immersive orientation.

1552
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,320
It's immersive orientation.
I detest the word immersive.

1553
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:09,600
It's really Yeah, but but yes,
yeah, you.

1554
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,720
Detest the word immersive.
I just because everybody uses

1555
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:13,600
it.
Yeah.

1556
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,760
And it's about 80% of the time.
Absolutely not true.

1557
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,840
Yeah, yeah, somebody told me
once.

1558
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:22,280
Any anybody who puts
professional in their name

1559
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,160
usually isn't anyone who puts
international in their.

1560
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:27,320
Name usually isn't.
Sorry.

1561
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:28,960
Last time, no.
My computer's had a moment,

1562
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:35,440
that's all right.
Yeah, so beyond the training

1563
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:37,000
thing, you're.
Renting out training thing.

1564
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:39,560
Yeah, you're renting consoles
and Gear A.

1565
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:45,160
Little bit of rental and a
little bit of you know is a bad

1566
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:49,320
word consultancy, but you know,
we've got a couple of projects

1567
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:51,960
on at the moment.
We're doing some sort of our

1568
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,240
containment exterior
architectural.

1569
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,480
How do we control this thing?
Oh, OK.

1570
01:25:57,480 --> 01:26:01,200
Yeah, you do XY and Z.
We're working a show at the

1571
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:07,000
minute that's we are just going
in to do the networking on a

1572
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:13,560
show like a big, I can't say too
much about it for, you know,

1573
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:17,160
various reasons, but essentially
big show, everything's talking

1574
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:19,400
to everything else.
We are just going into

1575
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:20,920
essentially network
administration.

1576
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,680
Oh wow.
That makes a lot of sense

1577
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,480
though.
Yeah, because we're looking at

1578
01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:30,040
40 plus switches and automation
needs to talk to D3, needs to

1579
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,800
talk to lighting, needs to talk
to audio.

1580
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:36,920
Yeah, all of that stuff on a
scale and it's something that is

1581
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:38,640
there it is.
Thank you very much.

1582
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:40,880
And everyone walks away and it's
run with show stuff.

1583
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,360
Yeah.
So, so starting to do that kind

1584
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:46,160
of level of thing where we can
go and we can do the design, the

1585
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:50,960
planning, the you can sort on
what, what systems do you, you

1586
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:55,600
need, what gear do you need that
side of things too.

1587
01:26:55,600 --> 01:27:01,160
So, so, yeah, it's a bit of a,
it's also a bit of a, you know,

1588
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:03,840
we're quite, we've only sort of
been operational about three

1589
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:06,080
years and we've really thought
of the last 18 months has been

1590
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,760
sort of pushing, pushing that
and pushing that agenda.

1591
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:13,040
So we're, you know, still a
little bit of a little bit of,

1592
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:15,120
we can be a number of things to
a number of people.

1593
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:17,840
And we're still trying to kind
of find our place in the world

1594
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,440
because it's a tricky thing,
right?

1595
01:27:19,440 --> 01:27:23,720
Because trying to was charging
for to turn up and go here is a

1596
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:27,800
load of knowledge and it's not a
tangible a tangible thing in the

1597
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:32,400
same way that renting out kit is
is is a very interesting space

1598
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:34,320
to be in.
Well, you know what it's worth,

1599
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,680
you know, once something's
failed, you know, and, and you'd

1600
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,920
pay anything for it.
But going into a project, it's

1601
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,000
hard to justify.
Somebody comes in and says yeah,

1602
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,920
for £40,000.
We'll we'll come in and have

1603
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,720
experts here making sure that
the network is put together

1604
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:54,360
effectively and and and.
You know, and they.

1605
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:58,800
See that as an an unnecessary
expense at that moment perhaps.

1606
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:00,800
Or yeah, absolutely.
And I think, you know, we're,

1607
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,760
you know, we're, we've all been
around long enough to understand

1608
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:07,200
that, you know, it's not going
to be, I'm not going to have a

1609
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,120
person on every show that goes
yeah, but that's not a thing.

1610
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,640
But we would like to be moving
into space where we're sort of

1611
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,440
managing those, those bigger
things, those weird and those

1612
01:28:18,440 --> 01:28:20,440
weird things.
You just go, I know that someone

1613
01:28:20,440 --> 01:28:24,080
needs to deal with this, but no
one is willing to deal with

1614
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:27,720
this, which I think is, is
something that we have certainly

1615
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:30,040
I've found a big to us is that
yes, there's an amount of

1616
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:33,600
integration that then just falls
back on either the lighting

1617
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,840
network guy, if you've got one,
or everybody has to have a bit

1618
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:39,720
of a fight about it and make it
work somehow.

1619
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:44,240
And I think another thing about
it is is, you know, like I say,

1620
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:48,720
these companies have brought
this kit and a lot of the time,

1621
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:52,000
you know, a lot of the time
might be a bit a bit

1622
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:56,160
overzealous, but you know, kit
will be specified by maybe the

1623
01:28:56,160 --> 01:29:00,960
LD and they are not necessarily
the best person to be in that

1624
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:02,720
position to be making those
decisions.

1625
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:06,640
You know, Oh, I have to have all
my MPs in front of house.

1626
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:08,400
What kind of why?
But now we have to run the snake

1627
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:12,320
in order to flash the rig out or
has to all come out of MA nodes.

1628
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:15,400
OK, cool.
But then that's, that's a lot of

1629
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,360
money that then gets out at the
end of the life cycle.

1630
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:22,600
So why don't we go agnostic to
that and then it can be used on

1631
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:27,520
the show and or.
OK, cool, we've we, we own an

1632
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:29,960
amount of passport things.
OK, cool.

1633
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:32,600
How what's, what's our best way
you could go about deploying

1634
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:33,520
that?
Yeah.

1635
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:36,200
You know, how do we look at
building standardization?

1636
01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:38,800
And you know, that's, that's
something we'd we, we're sort of

1637
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:41,160
keen to work with, with
companies to go, OK, cool.

1638
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:45,760
How do we, how do we help move
standardization of how we do

1639
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,160
this as an industry forward?
You know, whether that's

1640
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:50,520
training and whether those
levels of training, but also

1641
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,600
the, the how do we put a rack
together?

1642
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:58,160
How do we do IP schemes?
How do we, do, you know, how do

1643
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:00,200
we start doing all of that
configuration?

1644
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:02,960
How do we make sure it's re?
You know, we try and get it

1645
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:07,000
consistent across a company so
that when, you know, when there

1646
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,840
is a problem on, I don't know
when there's a problem on ELO,

1647
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:12,320
the control department can go.
Oh, OK.

1648
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:15,680
Well, this is this is how the
scheme is always laid out.

1649
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,960
These are all the IP addresses.
So can you just check that this

1650
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,360
this, this, this is correct.
Oh, it's that that I don't know

1651
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:23,200
that something masked wrong.
OK, cool.

1652
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:25,680
Update that and it'll be fine.
Because yeah, we're we're

1653
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,600
standardizing stuff.
I, I had a gentleman on the

1654
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:33,400
podcast, I don't know, a couple
years ago, probably now, who did

1655
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:40,160
audio wireless audio for like
events the size of Super Bowl.

1656
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:45,160
And, you know, it, it started
out because every different

1657
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:48,000
department was using different
headsets or using different

1658
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:51,920
whatever.
And it was just mayhem.

1659
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:56,000
And So what they did is they
initially came in and just made

1660
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,320
sure that everything worked with
everything else.

1661
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,600
And then they just started
packaging the whole thing and

1662
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:03,680
saying here, you know, we need
wireless for this department,

1663
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:05,480
this department, this
department, this department.

1664
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:09,080
And they just put the whole
package together and made sure

1665
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:11,280
that everything worked.
And there was no, you know,

1666
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:14,480
wireless, whatever you call it,
interference, crosstalk,

1667
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:18,840
whatever, and you know, very
specialized like you said.

1668
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:22,600
Yeah, You know, and, and going
going back to our early

1669
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:24,280
conversation, you know, all
those departments here are

1670
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:25,720
getting some sports specialists.
Yeah.

1671
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,640
And yeah, we're just sort of
trying to grab this particular

1672
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:29,400
bit by the horns.
Yeah.

1673
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:29,880
Do you?
Yeah.

1674
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:31,000
Do you need some programming
done?

1675
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:32,400
Absolutely.
We conspire with the program.

1676
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:34,680
Do you need something so we can
absolutely get some stuff?

1677
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:39,400
Well, but for the most part
it's, you know, it's the, you

1678
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:41,760
know, what we don't want to be
doing is we don't sorry, don't

1679
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:43,080
want to be doing.
We're quite happy to do

1680
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:47,440
whatever, but it's the the
things that companies will

1681
01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:49,320
comfortably take under the wing
and deal with.

1682
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:51,960
Great.
When it starts to get tricky,

1683
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,240
when you start to go, we need to
do this thing.

1684
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:59,480
It's a bit weird or we need to
do wireless over 500 meters, but

1685
01:31:59,480 --> 01:32:02,240
it needs to be full data.
Can you come and have a chat

1686
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:05,280
with us or some kids?
Do you know that that sort of

1687
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:09,280
those specialist areas and that,
that knowledge that we've got to

1688
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:13,400
to be able to go and deploy that
and and have confidence in what

1689
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:14,760
we're doing to make sure that's
correct?

1690
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:18,680
Yeah, yeah, there might there
potentially is a cheaper way of

1691
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:22,040
doing it maybe.
But then actually having the

1692
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:25,000
skill set and the knowledge to
do that deployment is, yeah, is

1693
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:25,880
a very different thing.
Well.

1694
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:28,480
Then the other thing is like all
the peripheral stuff, you know,

1695
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:31,840
like I, I know ACT over here in
North America distributes a

1696
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:35,640
product and I can't remember
what it's called, but it is, it

1697
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:38,160
allows you to remote into the.
Bridge.

1698
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:43,920
Yeah, the bridge.
And so even just understanding

1699
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:49,160
that product and how it works
with the network and the system

1700
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:52,560
and everything else and being
able to make sure that they're

1701
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:54,920
using that effectively or
properly.

1702
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,960
I mean, it reminds me any
technology, especially new

1703
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,960
technology, requires a company
like what you're talking about

1704
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:07,400
to sort of know everything, all
the nuances, all how to put that

1705
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:10,880
whole thing together as opposed
to, you know, well, there's a

1706
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:14,600
cool component or there's A and
it reminds me of AII talk about

1707
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:17,440
AIA lot on this podcast.
You do talk about AIA lot.

1708
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,600
But you know the thing about AII
love it.

1709
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:23,800
First of all, I really do.
And I think obviously we're not

1710
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,200
going to stop the bus, so you
might as well figure out it's.

1711
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:29,320
Not going away.
Yeah, how not to get run over by

1712
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:33,720
it and but, but the cool thing
about AI as an opportunity for

1713
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:37,280
especially those young kids
right now, you know, is just

1714
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:42,600
being able to go to companies
and help them understand how to

1715
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:46,760
best incorporate AI, how to
engage it into your business.

1716
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:48,840
What are the areas of your
business?

1717
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:50,880
And I talk to these experts with
my business.

1718
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:55,000
I talk to them all the time.
OK, what do you think you should

1719
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:59,120
employ AI on in our business?
And they'll look at how our

1720
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,840
business flows and they'll say,
I think logistics is a good

1721
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:04,320
area, maybe here is a good area
and here's a good area.

1722
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:06,000
That's where you should be
investing money.

1723
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:09,400
And then they'll come to me with
some ideas and prices for

1724
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:12,160
$75,000.
We'll build you this cool widget

1725
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:16,440
that does this thing right.
And so I look at yours

1726
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:18,480
similarly.
I mean, you're just, you're

1727
01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:21,880
taking a niche area of an entire
show.

1728
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:25,640
And, and it's an area that,
again, if it goes wrong is very

1729
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,080
expensive.
And if it goes right, it's a

1730
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:30,280
beautiful thing.
And you're just making sure it

1731
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:32,400
goes right.
You know, it's pretty

1732
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:34,160
straightforward.
You know, and that integration

1733
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:39,000
of stuff, you know, if you start
to look at, even, even if you

1734
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:41,920
start to look at like big
Broadway style musicals and that

1735
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:44,120
sort of thing where, where
everybody's in a really tight

1736
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:46,680
space and, and all that sort of
thing, actually to, to be able

1737
01:34:46,680 --> 01:34:50,360
to go, well, actually, why don't
we run, why don't we run 4 bits

1738
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:52,640
of fiber?
And everyone can just be on that

1739
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:56,040
and have a system and have POV
here and that can do speakers or

1740
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:58,080
you could have a yeah, you could
just put a camera there.

1741
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,280
Do you need a camera there?
We'll just put a camera there,

1742
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:04,600
you know, and, and actually
opening up that thing to how

1743
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:08,240
some of this technology and,
and, and what, what is currently

1744
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:16,440
available to us that we are
maybe maybe also less, you know,

1745
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:19,280
some people just don't realise
this stuff's out there and

1746
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:25,520
actually the, the integration of
that isn't, isn't huge expensive

1747
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:28,440
and isn't it's hugely beneficial
to to show.

1748
01:35:28,440 --> 01:35:31,120
You know, being.
Able to put cameras where do

1749
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,880
your do your recording?
Do your you know, just being

1750
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:38,840
able to send MIDI and timecode
over IP to the lighting

1751
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:43,240
department because it's just
easier than I find it hilarious

1752
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:48,080
on on ELR I've got 150 foot 2
quad fibres that go front to

1753
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:51,000
back that can do you know
capable of doing 10 Gigabit a

1754
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,040
second.
I've also got 3 bits of three

1755
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:55,240
pin cable lash to it to do comms
and timecode.

1756
01:35:56,440 --> 01:35:57,960
Interesting.
Yeah.

1757
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:00,440
You know, so just sort of trying
to go, well, actually we can, we

1758
01:36:00,440 --> 01:36:05,680
can make this more more
efficient certainly, you know,

1759
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:08,160
and especially when you start to
do those installs and things

1760
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:12,120
like that, yeah, you know, able
to converge everything is, is

1761
01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:13,560
really interesting and, and
cheaper.

1762
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,240
Because suddenly if you, if I've
got one switch, if I say I've

1763
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:19,440
got 2 switches from a house for
lighting, I've got 2 switches at

1764
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:22,360
stage right dimmers, I've got 2
at stage left dimmers.

1765
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:24,800
And then the audio department
have got the same and the

1766
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:26,400
automation department probably
got half a dozen.

1767
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,560
Well, actually that could be 6,
couldn't it?

1768
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:33,400
That could just be, that could
just be 6 whatevers and yeah,

1769
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:37,280
yeah, why do we have smaller
ones or Yeah, yeah, it could

1770
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:38,600
just, you know, integrate into
that.

1771
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,920
So yeah, yeah.
It's interesting.

1772
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,200
It's how are, how are.
You trying, just trying a little

1773
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:47,960
bit of trying to find a place in
the world a bit I think as well.

1774
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:48,920
I get it.
Yeah.

1775
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:52,480
Well, new things are always a
little tough to to, you know,

1776
01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:55,760
find your ground and and carve
out a niche, carve out a space.

1777
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:57,800
You know, why?
Why do I need you?

1778
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:01,040
This is the way we've always
done it for 72 years in our

1779
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:04,960
business.
You know, how are you finding

1780
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:09,280
the balance between running that
business and running your Rd.

1781
01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:11,560
business, You know, being out on
tour?

1782
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:16,000
At the moment it's the moment
it's a comedy goldmine because

1783
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:18,960
like this morning, this did
right before we kept we're on

1784
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,400
this.
I'm trying to trying to be on a

1785
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:25,840
Zoom meeting with everybody back
in the UK, me and the project

1786
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:33,240
lead out in I like Hong Kong.
So just trying to line all of

1787
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:35,440
that up on a daily basis is
hard.

1788
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:42,720
I think that I mean the other,
you know, it's sort of OK when

1789
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:46,200
I'm a bit more at home, but
it's, it's difficult.

1790
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:49,480
But the other thing is it's I,
you know, I, I've toured this

1791
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:51,200
band for a long time.
I really like turning this band.

1792
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:55,840
I really like being on tour.
So I've got no real plans on on

1793
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,400
living in a world where I don't
occasionally take a tour out.

1794
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:06,280
Had we know we were going to be
this busy right now, maybe the

1795
01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:07,640
answer would have been not to
take the tour.

1796
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:10,880
But yeah, yeah, getting, getting
the balance.

1797
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:15,040
But I've got a couple of really,
really, really good business

1798
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:18,400
partners.
We've got some freelancers we

1799
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:20,800
work really closely with who are
exceptional.

1800
01:38:22,480 --> 01:38:25,360
So you're sort of getting that,
getting that right and get out

1801
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:26,400
of balance right.
And it's all, you know,

1802
01:38:26,440 --> 01:38:29,960
ultimately we, we started a
company for a number of reasons

1803
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:35,920
and a big one was to basically
just have an excuse to hang out

1804
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:38,000
with some people we quite like
and do some cool stuff.

1805
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:40,720
That's cool.
So we we'll just keep doing

1806
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:43,120
that.
Does anyone work full time in

1807
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,720
that business or is it all just
kind of get together as needed?

1808
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:48,360
At the moment it's all, it's all
a bit get together as we need,

1809
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:51,520
but it's it's looking a lot more
like I will probably go full

1810
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:53,840
time, yeah, sooner rather than
later.

1811
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:56,200
Yeah, but again, it's a good
thing.

1812
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:59,600
Depends on it's a good thing and
also, you know, I I could go

1813
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:02,200
full time and I could do you
know, I could just do a Toro

1814
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:04,560
stuff through through that
company and it doesn't need to

1815
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:08,160
be, you know, function make it
that much of a difference.

1816
01:39:08,440 --> 01:39:12,160
Yeah, well, there's so many,
there's so many collectives out

1817
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:15,880
there that that do their own
thing and this thing, you know,

1818
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:18,800
and there's no conflict and
nobody gets upset as long as you

1819
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:20,880
go into it knowing that that's
how it's gonna work.

1820
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:22,520
And yeah.
Absolutely.

1821
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:24,000
So I don't think that's a big
problem.

1822
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:29,720
Yeah, cuz you know, PJ, you
know, PJ has a his his coach

1823
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:33,840
buttons up tightly over a number
of other duties and, you know,

1824
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:37,040
Dom's, you know, along with
Johnny Barker's running neon

1825
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,720
black and, you know, as a design
collective.

1826
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:42,160
So yeah.
And, and, and the other thing as

1827
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:43,840
well is that all sort of feeds
each other as well.

1828
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:45,480
You know, if they get an
architectural project, then we

1829
01:39:45,480 --> 01:39:47,240
can go oh, OK, cool.
Well, what are we doing about

1830
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:48,240
control for that?
Yeah.

1831
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:50,440
So there's, there's an element
of that and, and but yeah,

1832
01:39:50,440 --> 01:39:53,080
having having a team around you,
you sort of trust to just go,

1833
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:54,800
can you, can you deal with XY
and Z?

1834
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:58,360
And we're knowing, knowing
enough of the same people that

1835
01:39:58,360 --> 01:40:00,640
Venn diagram of who do you know
that does this, who do you know

1836
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:04,120
that does this just allows that
to be really kind of easy and

1837
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:06,120
straightforward.
Yeah, that makes sense.

1838
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:10,920
But yeah, so not, not quite full
time, but yeah, it's fingers

1839
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:12,800
crossed.
What are I would like, I would

1840
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:14,760
like an excuse to spend a bit
more time at home with my dog.

1841
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:18,640
So.
Yeah, I get it with your dog.

1842
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:21,160
What about your?
You have a significant.

1843
01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:22,520
Other I'm out of half obviously,
but.

1844
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:25,600
Yeah, I might not want to forget
about them.

1845
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:27,800
No, it's true.
I will get in trouble for that

1846
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:29,360
you.
Said he wanted to spend more

1847
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:30,960
time with your dog.
It's true.

1848
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:33,960
OK, perfect, you can go live in
the fucking dog house with your

1849
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:35,520
dog.
Yeah, yeah, accurate.

1850
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:40,760
Yeah, perfect.
Yeah, more room for me in the

1851
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:43,840
master bedroom.
Sorry, it's not called master

1852
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:45,760
bedroom.
It's called main bedroom now or

1853
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:47,120
whatever it's called.
I forget.

1854
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:51,760
Master seems to have gone away.
Where do you see technology

1855
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:53,640
going?
Like make a couple predictions

1856
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:56,120
on technology as it relates to
our industry.

1857
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:02,320
I think I'm fairly safe in
saying that until AI learns to

1858
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:05,080
pull points into the air that
we're all relatively safe.

1859
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:09,200
Exactly, yeah.
Where's technology going?

1860
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:19,040
I can see there being a lot more
of this integration stuff, which

1861
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:20,440
is, you know, entirely
self-serving.

1862
01:41:20,440 --> 01:41:23,040
I realized.
But but yeah, everybody talking

1863
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:25,160
to everybody else is going to be
a is going to be a much bigger

1864
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:27,880
thing.
I think more and more.

1865
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:31,040
So we're going to be relying on
networks to shift essentially

1866
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:33,520
everything around.
Yeah, I would agree with that.

1867
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,760
I mean, we already, we're
already most of the way there,

1868
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,360
but I think the next few years
it's just going to be it's all

1869
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:41,880
IP based because we can reduce
the latency so much that it's

1870
01:41:42,440 --> 01:41:45,720
it's not a problem lighting
wise.

1871
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:49,600
Lighting wise, think we're an
interesting part.

1872
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:54,960
We're an interesting place at
the moment because slightly

1873
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:57,320
controversial opinion,
everybody's producing the same

1874
01:41:57,320 --> 01:41:59,160
light with a slightly different
gobo load in it.

1875
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:02,440
Totally true.
Totally true.

1876
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:05,440
Well, in generally every company
has 1 trick.

1877
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:08,920
They've got one like, Yep, thing
that everybody's got to have.

1878
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:11,920
Like right now for Martin, it's
the Mac 1, you know?

1879
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,560
For Air's Mac for brilliant big.
It is a very.

1880
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:18,240
Cool.
I just, I, I saw, I, I saw, I

1881
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:20,480
saw it in Frankfurt a couple
years ago.

1882
01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:22,240
Yeah.
The first thing I said to Ben

1883
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:24,240
was you're going to sell
thousands of those.

1884
01:42:24,280 --> 01:42:27,320
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I talked to Ben a few days

1885
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:28,560
ago.
I don't know.

1886
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:30,280
I didn't talk to Ben.
I talked to somebody else in

1887
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:34,480
Martin, high up in Martin and I
won't mention his name and I

1888
01:42:34,480 --> 01:42:36,880
think he told me that they've
sold.

1889
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:40,520
I think he said 40,000 already
or something.

1890
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:42,960
I am at this point, I'm in no
way surprised.

1891
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:45,920
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's a large number

1892
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:47,880
considering it's only been out
for a couple of months.

1893
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:49,640
Yeah.
But I, but I think it's, it's

1894
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:55,360
what's cool about it is that
it's, I think it's sort of, it's

1895
01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:57,400
a brilliant Little Rock and roll
gag because you can put them,

1896
01:42:57,480 --> 01:42:59,320
you throw them around like
glitter, right?

1897
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,520
But also it's, it's sort of the
death of the park cannon

1898
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:06,040
scroller and that sort of thing.
And finally, that you know, you

1899
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:09,720
can just tuck it away and it
moves great ideal, you know.

1900
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,320
What is it in, in England?
Is it like £1200 or something

1901
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:15,920
like that?
12 or 1300 quid like in the US

1902
01:43:15,920 --> 01:43:17,840
it's $1500.
You know it's.

1903
01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:20,360
Not a lot, not a lot of money.
You can throw them everywhere.

1904
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:23,680
Yeah, yeah.
Just the right product at the

1905
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:26,880
right time, doing the right
amount of stuff, you know, with

1906
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:29,360
the right intensity.
Like it didn't need to be the

1907
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:32,160
brightest light in the rig, but
it needed to be bright enough.

1908
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:35,480
And yeah, big win, huge win, but
huge win.

1909
01:43:35,480 --> 01:43:37,720
So yeah, I agree with you though
everyone has.

1910
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:40,400
Some great stuff and some really
nice products out there at the

1911
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:45,200
moment.
I had 90 of the I Forte's out

1912
01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:49,160
last year on Helena and I think
we swapped 1 yeah, in nine

1913
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:51,560
months.
Yeah, yeah, It's a nice slide as

1914
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:53,240
well.
If they weren't in a truck they

1915
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:54,560
were on.
Yeah.

1916
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:59,400
So like, yeah, you know, so
there's, there's a lot of do you

1917
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:00,840
use them for?
Follow spots as well.

1918
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:03,840
Yeah, yeah, not on, not on ELO,
which is great.

1919
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:05,800
It's the best, one of the best
things about this job.

1920
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:07,920
No, no follow spots.
Oh really?

1921
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:10,120
None.
Yeah, we did it the first.

1922
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:14,640
So, so Tim router, just the
light designer on it has been

1923
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:18,680
since sort of the the whole
comeback thing in what, 2015?

1924
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:19,600
Sixteen.
Yeah.

1925
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:23,760
And then we had we had the
lovely Matt Pittman come and

1926
01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:26,560
light the first sort of tour
while Tim was doing Beyoncé.

1927
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:30,440
We had three follow spots and
they basically locked them off.

1928
01:44:30,440 --> 01:44:32,520
And every time Jeff took a step
away from the microphone, they

1929
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:34,680
faded off because that's what
they wanted.

1930
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:36,600
So we just.
Interesting carrying follow

1931
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:37,120
spots.
Yeah.

1932
01:44:37,120 --> 01:44:39,680
What for?
Yeah, just key light.

1933
01:44:39,680 --> 01:44:43,000
Yeah, the I, the I Forte follow
swats are great.

1934
01:44:45,640 --> 01:44:47,040
Yeah, really good.
It's really consistent.

1935
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,840
Yeah, just yeah, really nice.
Have you seen this Macular

1936
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:53,920
thing?
Macular.

1937
01:44:54,520 --> 01:45:00,080
So there's essentially it's a
it's European based, I can't

1938
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:04,680
remember where, but it's it's a
slightly different version of a

1939
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:06,720
robo SWAT system.
It's still the sort of

1940
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:12,000
handlebars and camera, but it
has a little bit more of the

1941
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:15,920
tying in of multiple units that
you can do in the way that you

1942
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:19,760
can do on Follow Me rather than
rather than the way that you can

1943
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:23,400
do on robust bot.
Interesting.

1944
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:27,160
Just quite cool.
They just like MACULAI think so

1945
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:29,680
yeah, I have to look it up.
But they just, I know they just

1946
01:45:29,680 --> 01:45:33,560
put it on, they just put on
Hamilton in the UK for their for

1947
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:38,320
their touring rig.
And yeah, I have a very brief

1948
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:40,800
chat with the Lt. of the week
and they're very happy with it.

1949
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:43,960
And but yeah, I think that's
interesting because it's

1950
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:45,920
completely fixed prognostic.
I think that's quite

1951
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,200
interesting.
Yeah.

1952
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:52,120
So that's something you're not
tied to it being, you know, a

1953
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:56,680
best boy or a, or an I Forte or
a BMFL.

1954
01:45:57,120 --> 01:46:01,240
How how they will deal with it
in if it ever comes to the USI

1955
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:04,160
don't know but.
Yeah, I'm looking at it right

1956
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:05,920
now.
I wonder if they have

1957
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:09,560
distribution in the US yet.
I don't know anything about this

1958
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:12,720
one for some reason.
Yeah, it looks like you.

1959
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:15,640
May well, I don't know what the,
I don't know what the

1960
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:18,240
technicalities of bringing that
over and the obviously because

1961
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:20,680
there's patents and all sorts of
stuff.

1962
01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:22,760
So yeah, I don't know.
But it's, it's quite a cool

1963
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:25,320
thing.
I think that's worth keeping an

1964
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:27,800
eye on, especially because,
yeah, suddenly you're you're

1965
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:29,120
able to use any fixture you
like.

1966
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:33,240
It's interesting because they
have distribution sort of all

1967
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:37,960
over the world except in North
America, which doesn't make much

1968
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,440
sense.
Like it's got to be the biggest

1969
01:46:40,440 --> 01:46:45,200
market for it, I would think.
Yeah, I'll have to look into

1970
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:46,120
that.
That's interesting.

1971
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:48,920
But that's cool.
I think the tracking stuff's

1972
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:53,480
only going to get cleverer.
And I think I think AI is most

1973
01:46:53,480 --> 01:46:57,360
probably going to have, you
know, in terms of what we will

1974
01:46:57,960 --> 01:47:01,960
things we will see directly like
responses to AII think, you

1975
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:05,120
know, you know, there's the big
one of people using it to sort

1976
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:09,920
of generate looks and content
and and stuff that that no one

1977
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:12,440
else has got.
I think is is legitimate.

1978
01:47:12,440 --> 01:47:14,560
I think that's quite good.
But I think where we'll really

1979
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:21,280
see it start to shine is things
like learning those habits, you

1980
01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:24,160
know, doing being able to go
here is the follow us.

1981
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:26,200
What here's the tracking.
OK, cool.

1982
01:47:27,440 --> 01:47:31,320
Taking all of that data and
learning it so it's able to

1983
01:47:31,320 --> 01:47:34,040
react in a, in a, maybe a
slightly better way or a

1984
01:47:34,040 --> 01:47:36,920
slightly softer way or that sort
of thing.

1985
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:41,120
So, you know, repeating and
taking that data set and doing,

1986
01:47:42,240 --> 01:47:44,640
I assume some sort of
witchcraft, sage burning, I

1987
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:46,760
don't know.
But whatever it does, in order

1988
01:47:46,760 --> 01:47:49,840
to make that whole process a
little bit more, I understand

1989
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:52,760
how human beings move a bit more
and that sort of thing.

1990
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:56,560
That's, that's an interesting
thought that I hadn't had as far

1991
01:47:56,560 --> 01:48:00,000
as at least early stage stuff.
Like I keep thinking, you know,

1992
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:03,640
tedious lines of JavaScript and
stuff, you know, like just, I

1993
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:07,280
mean all the really boring
coding stuff that you have to do

1994
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:12,600
when you're a lighting director
or a programmer or, you know,

1995
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:15,520
assigning fixtures or whatever
it is.

1996
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:20,320
Like just the tedious work I
would have thought would be at

1997
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:24,520
least the 1st intro in.
So that because I think on the

1998
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:28,240
console, on the control side,
they're very afraid to approach

1999
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:31,840
this AI thing because designers
are just going to say boycott,

2000
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:35,120
you know, ABC console company
because they're putting AI into

2001
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:39,520
their control systems.
And then, you know, on the other

2002
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:43,200
side, you know, obviously
designers and directors and

2003
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:47,720
programmers don't want to lose
that creative control over the

2004
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,960
show or whatever by sticking AI
in and saying, what do you

2005
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:54,880
think, you know, and suddenly
rendering themselves useless.

2006
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:57,000
Well, I mean, the, the that's
the, that's the thing.

2007
01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:58,960
All of it, though, is that you
could go, what do you think?

2008
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:04,480
But it can only AI can and does
only function based on things it

2009
01:49:04,480 --> 01:49:06,840
has previously seen or worked
with, right.

2010
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:10,440
Yeah.
It, you know, it, it's a it's a

2011
01:49:10,440 --> 01:49:15,680
very interesting thing that I
think that creatives are or that

2012
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:18,520
people who associate sort of
crisis being a little bit scared

2013
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:23,880
by it, understandably in many
ways, but it's also not going to

2014
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:26,680
it.
It can never be truly creative

2015
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:32,240
because it because it can only,
it can only work based off of,

2016
01:49:32,760 --> 01:49:34,000
you know, what people have done
before.

2017
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:37,840
Now that's not to say that some
of the the best talents in the

2018
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:39,920
lighting industry that we know
from a design point of view

2019
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:43,200
don't do exactly the same.
Yeah, yeah.

2020
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:46,880
But well, yeah, I think.
In a sense, isn't it the same

2021
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:48,920
though?
But isn't it the same?

2022
01:49:48,920 --> 01:49:54,040
Like aren't, isn't everything we
do creatively a combination of

2023
01:49:54,240 --> 01:49:57,520
our past experiences, other
things that we've done, things

2024
01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:01,440
we've seen, things we've heard,
you know, whatever it is, what's

2025
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:05,000
going on in the news right now?
I mean, just all sorts of

2026
01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:09,920
outside senses coming in at us.
I don't know, I just, I feel

2027
01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:14,880
like, I feel like our industry,
you know, is, is really waiting

2028
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:17,240
for AI to come in and, and grab
a hold.

2029
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:21,440
And I think we got to just
decide where it's going to grab

2030
01:50:21,440 --> 01:50:24,160
a hold and, and where it can
benefit us the most.

2031
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:28,400
Because I think the jobs that
it's going to replace probably

2032
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:32,000
needed to be replaced.
The jobs that are most creative

2033
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:34,000
won't be replaced, I don't
believe.

2034
01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:38,600
And so, you know, to me like
that's going to be parts of

2035
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:40,320
jobs.
That's going to be like lines of

2036
01:50:40,320 --> 01:50:42,600
tedious code.
Is the but.

2037
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:48,160
Let's say if you if you know, we
look at we look at our that's

2038
01:50:48,160 --> 01:50:51,240
the best way to put it.
If we look at our lighting like

2039
01:50:51,240 --> 01:50:53,920
equipment trumpet that's
constantly sort of doing this.

2040
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:58,280
Yeah, we we are going to reach a
point.

2041
01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:00,720
If you, if you look at the last
20 years from where we, you

2042
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:04,160
know, even what coming off the
back of like arts and consoles

2043
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:08,000
and HOG 2, right, 20 years ago,
probably to where we are now in

2044
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:09,600
terms of, of what we're
controlling.

2045
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:15,240
If if that continues to the rate
it goes, then you're going to

2046
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:19,560
become really stuck in terms of
you're going to have to adopt AI

2047
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:22,640
and AI is going to have to look
after certain parts of these

2048
01:51:22,640 --> 01:51:27,040
processes in order for just to
be able to control that level of

2049
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:28,320
stuff we're trying to do.
Yeah.

2050
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:30,000
Well, here's the other thing,
David.

2051
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:32,960
I mean, that's exactly right.
But here's the other thing is

2052
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:38,440
everyone's assuming the AI is
going to be in the console, but

2053
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:41,400
I actually believe that AI is
going to be in the lights.

2054
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:47,160
I think lights are going to
become smart and therefore maybe

2055
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:50,520
less information needs to come
from the console and the light

2056
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:55,520
is going to do some of the
decision making or self

2057
01:51:55,520 --> 01:52:00,240
diagnosis or whatever it is.
You know, like I just, I think a

2058
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:03,160
lot of this is gonna happen at
the, at the level of the, the

2059
01:52:03,160 --> 01:52:08,160
light, the speaker cabinet, the
sort of endpoint and not at the

2060
01:52:08,240 --> 01:52:11,560
not at the front end of it.
I could be wrong.

2061
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:16,520
I've been wrong 85% of the time.
So who knows?

2062
01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:18,120
There's a good.
It's gonna happen again.

2063
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:21,400
Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah.

2064
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:25,000
I mean, what else is sort of
coming down the pipeline there

2065
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:27,480
is?
Do you know Richard Kadina?

2066
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:30,960
Yes, I guess.
Was it Richard who said I want,

2067
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:33,320
I want to see light bend, you
know?

2068
01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:35,000
Oh, yeah.
I want them to figure out how to

2069
01:52:35,000 --> 01:52:36,680
bend.
Light, just get it round.

2070
01:52:36,840 --> 01:52:39,720
Just get it round that corner.
Yeah, if you can bend light,

2071
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:44,480
then I'm impressed, you know.
Yes, I think, I think I, I, I'm

2072
01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:46,720
led to believe it's Richard's
fault that I'm on this podcast.

2073
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:48,120
So.
Oh, is it?

2074
01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:50,560
Yeah, yeah.
I love Richard.

2075
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:52,120
Richard's a great.
Guy, Oh, he's great.

2076
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:58,040
We we, we got introduced many
years ago by of the the late

2077
01:52:58,040 --> 01:53:00,920
great Craig Boros.
And yeah.

2078
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:04,600
And we've sort of just every
time we'll we'll every time

2079
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:06,560
we're in the same city, we'll
try and catch up on a bunch.

2080
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:09,400
Ted tries to be about once a
year.

2081
01:53:09,400 --> 01:53:11,840
It's delightful.
Yeah, a lot of time for Richard.

2082
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:14,720
Well, and, and I was actually,
when you were talking about

2083
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:16,720
education, I was going to say,
have you ever met Richard

2084
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:18,080
Kadena?
You should connect with him

2085
01:53:18,080 --> 01:53:20,640
because he's actually getting
quite good at it, you know.

2086
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:22,240
Yeah.
So yeah.

2087
01:53:22,240 --> 01:53:23,280
Finally.
Yeah.

2088
01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:25,600
Yeah.
It's taken him a while.

2089
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:29,040
Yeah, no, yeah, a lot of time
for which is enormous.

2090
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:30,680
Sounds likewise.
There were some great people out

2091
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:33,160
there.
I mean, you know, like the guys

2092
01:53:33,160 --> 01:53:36,000
at Lamp and Pencil in the UK,
Robin Barton particularly,

2093
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:38,280
really, really good.
He does, you know, steering

2094
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:43,520
committee for like the BS79-O9,
which is the electrical code

2095
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:47,360
that deals with like temporary
installation stuff.

2096
01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:50,520
It's OK.
It's the nearest analogy would

2097
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:52,920
be like the ETCP electricians
over here.

2098
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:56,880
There's a couple more guys on
that whole thing that that are

2099
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:01,440
really good.
There's Chris W with W training

2100
01:54:01,440 --> 01:54:05,280
who's who's taught lighting
consoles and various bits and

2101
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:08,400
pieces for a long time.
Does amazing work.

2102
01:54:09,480 --> 01:54:11,640
Yeah, there's a, there's a few,
there's a few people out there

2103
01:54:11,640 --> 01:54:12,960
doing some amazing training
stuff.

2104
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:14,840
I like that.
Yeah, I like that because again,

2105
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:16,840
like we talked about right at
the very front end of this

2106
01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:21,400
thing, you know, it lacks, you
know, So that's why I think

2107
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:27,360
people go through normal school
and and they end up in technical

2108
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:30,080
theatre.
And I'm not saying that's a

2109
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:33,160
waste of time, you know?
I think we're still

2110
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:40,320
overcorrecting from certainly
what I think what we are finding

2111
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:43,200
in the UK.
Certainly my, my take on it,

2112
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:46,480
there are a lot of people going
to drama school.

2113
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:49,120
There are a lot of people being
trained to be designers or

2114
01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:51,440
associates and there are a lot
of people doing more technical

2115
01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,520
based courses that are very
geared towards programming.

2116
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:59,600
And that's great.
But I think the the

2117
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:02,840
understanding that everyone
needs to have is that for you on

2118
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:09,000
a show, you probably have what
nought .25 to nought .5 of a

2119
01:55:09,000 --> 01:55:12,680
lighting designer.
You've probably got the same

2120
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:17,120
ratio for a programmer and then
you've got like what four or

2121
01:55:17,120 --> 01:55:21,840
five lighting technicians.
So I think there is a a certain

2122
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:24,480
amount of re correction that
needs to happen.

2123
01:55:24,480 --> 01:55:28,440
That is yes, absolutely we
should be training people to be

2124
01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:31,120
created to be programmers
because there are so amazing

2125
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:33,240
people who have come out of that
and and done that.

2126
01:55:33,320 --> 01:55:35,160
You know, you look at people
like Tom Young, you look at

2127
01:55:35,160 --> 01:55:39,360
Chris Hurst, look at more gamers
amazing.

2128
01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:45,000
But they are a very select few
people in what is quite a wide

2129
01:55:47,560 --> 01:55:50,000
intake out output of the PhD
students.

2130
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:56,880
And what I think we're finding
and is I need someone I can hand

2131
01:55:56,880 --> 01:55:59,600
a plan to and go, can you hang
that trust and plug it up?

2132
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:01,680
Yes.
And to go back.

2133
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:03,200
To that as challenged.
And plugged up.

2134
01:56:03,480 --> 01:56:08,280
Yeah, well, a lot of those
technicians, but technicians and

2135
01:56:08,280 --> 01:56:11,280
I think stagehands were sort of
the first people that left our

2136
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:15,520
industry when COVID happened
and, you know, because they were

2137
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:16,880
like, hey, you know what, to
hell with it.

2138
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:20,960
I can stay home and and work for
Amazon and get paid the same or

2139
01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:23,920
more money and I don't have to
go on the road and I can be with

2140
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:27,240
my girlfriend and my dog and
whatever and.

2141
01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:29,000
Absolutely.
You know, I've, I've got friends

2142
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:30,960
who get it exactly that.
They literally, they went to

2143
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:33,880
work for Amazon.
I mean, my, the, the lovely

2144
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:35,200
Michael and Dale was currently
Adler.

2145
01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:38,680
Yeah, he literally went to work
for Amazon, learned to drive a

2146
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:40,240
truck because they went, we need
truck drivers.

2147
01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:42,160
And he came at the other end of
it.

2148
01:56:42,200 --> 01:56:45,680
And, you know, having seen his
two kids grow up for a few

2149
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:47,520
years, came at the other end of
it and and went, oh, I'm going

2150
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:50,520
to go and work full time for a
company in town because I'm not

2151
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:52,520
leaving the industry.
But he's not on the road

2152
01:56:52,520 --> 01:56:53,800
anymore.
He was doing a very similar job

2153
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:57,040
to me, you know, in front of how
systems teching or whatever, you

2154
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:59,160
know, he's like, oh, no, go home
every night.

2155
01:56:59,160 --> 01:57:02,480
It's nice, yeah, you know, it is
a tricky thing, but I think

2156
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:06,440
there is a there is almost AI
feel like there's almost a duty

2157
01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:10,480
of care within, within like the
the systems that we have at the

2158
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:15,760
moment to go a bit of a cliche,
but learn the trade, learn a

2159
01:57:15,760 --> 01:57:18,560
trade part of it, be a designer
absolutely all day long.

2160
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:24,080
I think it's really important.
It's amazing work, but go and go

2161
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:26,800
and learn how to solder LED
tape, go and learn how to hang

2162
01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:30,160
lights, be sociable, learn how
to run crew because that is what

2163
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:32,640
that is what is going to pay
your rent is what's going to get

2164
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:34,720
your mortgage.
That is what's going to set you

2165
01:57:34,760 --> 01:57:37,960
up in 10 years time when you've
gathered a whole load of

2166
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:41,440
information and contacts and
people to then go actually, I'm

2167
01:57:41,440 --> 01:57:42,840
going to go and I'm going to go
and step.

2168
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:45,440
I'm going to step into that
design space.

2169
01:57:45,440 --> 01:57:47,080
I'm going to go and put my name
out there.

2170
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:48,840
And I think, I think that's
really important because I think

2171
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:55,000
at the moment we are struggling
with the fact that we're not, we

2172
01:57:55,000 --> 01:58:01,560
don't have a variety of voices
producing work necessarily

2173
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:06,040
because so many people are from
a a white little class

2174
01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:08,400
background because they're the
ones who have got the support

2175
01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:11,400
structure in place to be able to
go and be a suffering artist.

2176
01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:15,880
So you're training, is it
structured to where you've got a

2177
01:58:15,880 --> 01:58:18,560
calendar and here's our
different training dates and

2178
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:19,720
here's what we're training on
those.

2179
01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:23,480
Dates at the moment, no, we're
very much sort of working.

2180
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:27,200
We're looking to work with
companies directly to book in

2181
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:31,600
trainings with them.
The idea of that being that one

2182
01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:33,880
honestly don't know what the
calendar is next year yet.

2183
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:36,880
Hopefully have some UK dates put
in January, February that will

2184
01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:40,480
do some open call stuff.
But what we would love to be

2185
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:43,000
working with these companies
directly so that we can also do

2186
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:47,520
a bit of we can do a bit of work
and go actually, what, what did

2187
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:48,880
you specifically need to be
training on?

2188
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:52,520
What kit do you own already?
What are you looking to get?

2189
01:58:52,840 --> 01:58:57,640
And we can kind of work around
that also makes it very easy for

2190
01:58:57,640 --> 01:58:59,840
us to be, to be able to go, OK,
cool.

2191
01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:02,200
Everyone gets, you know, if
they've got all the gear and all

2192
01:59:02,200 --> 01:59:04,280
the stuff there, we can turn up,
do the training fine.

2193
01:59:04,440 --> 01:59:07,200
If we're having to get, if we
have to bring our kit with us,

2194
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:09,360
that's another expense.
It's a listed.

2195
01:59:09,360 --> 01:59:12,560
So it's at the moment we're
trying to work and work with

2196
01:59:12,560 --> 01:59:15,680
companies sort of directly to,
to book in trainings.

2197
01:59:15,680 --> 01:59:17,440
No, that makes sense.
That makes sense.

2198
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:21,920
To to make it a little bit more,
yeah, a little bit more bespoke

2199
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:25,000
to them.
Yeah, well, I mean, that's

2200
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:27,280
that's obviously beneficial to
the company.

2201
01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:31,360
If I own, you know, Joey's
lighting company and I'm doing

2202
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:35,480
this specialty training inside
my facility, I think that's

2203
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:38,960
providing a service to the
community, to the region.

2204
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:42,240
You know, I'm saying, hey, look,
we want people to learn how to

2205
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:44,680
do this stuff.
And obviously people coming out

2206
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:47,520
of that, I can watch them
closely and say, hey, John was

2207
01:59:47,520 --> 01:59:50,880
actually really cool and Bob
over there and and Tammy over

2208
01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:52,360
there.
They were really cool people.

2209
01:59:52,360 --> 01:59:54,840
I want to try and get them in
and and hire them and.

2210
01:59:54,960 --> 01:59:58,360
Yeah, exactly.
The one we just did refuse was

2211
01:59:58,360 --> 02:00:02,080
all people that they employ
regularly and it's.

2212
02:00:02,200 --> 02:00:05,160
Yeah, I see it's getting that
sort of getting ready to go.

2213
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:07,920
OK, cool.
But I think what the interesting

2214
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:10,080
thing is that you get at
university and you get those

2215
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:13,280
sorts of things that you just
don't get to do for the most

2216
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:15,920
part is.
Actually having the time to go

2217
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:18,640
go through all the stuff, go
back over the bases, go through

2218
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:23,320
layer one, how is a piece of
CAT5 going built and why or how

2219
02:00:23,320 --> 02:00:25,280
is this fiber done?
Go through the switches, go

2220
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:27,320
through the bits and pieces.
And with a little bit more time

2221
02:00:27,320 --> 02:00:32,680
like doing our two day one,
there is a large portion of the

2222
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:34,440
day.
It's basically play around with

2223
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:36,520
some stuff.
We'll go over some things, but

2224
02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:40,320
play around with this kit
because the I would say suggests

2225
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:43,960
to you the vast majority of
people do not get an opportunity

2226
02:00:43,960 --> 02:00:48,200
to get hands on with this kit
with somebody who knows what's

2227
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:54,200
going on with it outside of the
the 3:00 AM, that trust doesn't

2228
02:00:54,200 --> 02:00:57,640
work.
Sitting behind a rack, shouting

2229
02:00:57,640 --> 02:01:00,320
expletives at it and crying.
That makes sense, Yeah.

2230
02:01:00,320 --> 02:01:01,400
And that is not.
Yeah, I get it.

2231
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:04,080
That's not what we call a, an
environment for education.

2232
02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:07,120
Yeah.
So actually being able to put

2233
02:01:07,120 --> 02:01:09,640
people in a room surrounded with
other people who are learning

2234
02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:11,920
the same process.
So everyone's learning together.

2235
02:01:12,240 --> 02:01:15,200
They've got somebody they can go
actually, how do you do this?

2236
02:01:15,720 --> 02:01:21,680
It's immersive in real life.
It's I'm just being a.

2237
02:01:21,680 --> 02:01:25,760
Dick don't make me come up there
and but giving people the

2238
02:01:25,760 --> 02:01:28,440
opportunity to to play around
with a kit, get some knowledge

2239
02:01:28,440 --> 02:01:31,080
about it, get some understanding
of it before they're in a

2240
02:01:31,080 --> 02:01:34,960
situation where they're suddenly
they're having to learn it and

2241
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:36,360
under an enormous amount of
pressure.

2242
02:01:36,600 --> 02:01:40,360
Yeah, yeah, well, and again,
then when it breaks, you know,

2243
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:43,000
then you're in real trouble.
Then you're like in a panic and.

2244
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:46,640
Yeah, absolutely.
And like I said, coming into

2245
02:01:47,160 --> 02:01:49,880
working with those companies,
developing those relationships

2246
02:01:49,960 --> 02:01:54,240
to allow us to go, OK, cool.
Well, if you've got project XYZ

2247
02:01:54,240 --> 02:01:56,200
that's a bit more complicated,
give us a call, we'll come in

2248
02:01:56,200 --> 02:01:57,920
and watch out.
We've got people whatever.

2249
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:02,080
But and yeah, being able to go
well, OK, we we can tailor this

2250
02:02:02,080 --> 02:02:03,920
to this.
We can do that or we do a big

2251
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:05,800
campuses house.
OK, well, we can, we can build a

2252
02:02:05,800 --> 02:02:08,560
we can build our third section
around how do we get the stuff

2253
02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:11,120
out of campuses or Ava?
Yeah, well, that sort of thing.

2254
02:02:11,120 --> 02:02:17,520
Or you know, we did, we covered,
we covered a little bit of the

2255
02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:21,160
networking side of Robospot, for
example, for Fuse.

2256
02:02:21,160 --> 02:02:24,960
So going through this is what we
consider Beck's practice for

2257
02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:27,720
setting up your systems for
robospots.

2258
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:30,520
And then they've recently
changed the software so you can

2259
02:02:30,520 --> 02:02:32,440
now do all of your networking
out the network ports.

2260
02:02:32,440 --> 02:02:34,520
You'd have to do 5 pin
conversion all this.

2261
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:37,840
So going actually, well, this is
how, this is how we approach it.

2262
02:02:37,880 --> 02:02:40,000
This is how we used to approach
it and how those systems are

2263
02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:42,920
still set to do.
This is how the new system is in

2264
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:44,720
theory supposed to work.
Because I've not used it yet.

2265
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:49,080
And you know, I'm trying very
hard to be as accurate as I can

2266
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:51,720
with something that I've used,
which is scary.

2267
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:56,520
So, but you know, this is this
is this, this is what's similar,

2268
02:02:56,520 --> 02:02:58,120
this is what's different
together.

2269
02:02:58,120 --> 02:02:59,800
Yeah.
So just being able to go, OK,

2270
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:02,600
cool, what do you need?
What have you got?

2271
02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:05,040
What you're.
Using, Yeah, yeah, that's cool.

2272
02:03:05,120 --> 02:03:08,480
And then you just basically put
together a custom program.

2273
02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:10,680
Yeah, yeah.
We've got, like I said, we've

2274
02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:13,480
got this sort of the one day
thing we call Ethernet for

2275
02:03:13,480 --> 02:03:15,840
roadies, which is sort of very
much an off the shelf and we're

2276
02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:17,240
doing that.
And then but yeah, everything

2277
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:19,920
else, yeah, we're, we're really
up for working with people to

2278
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:21,880
do, to do custom stuff and
because the whole thing's a

2279
02:03:21,880 --> 02:03:23,880
journey, right?
Like, you know, I've done, I've

2280
02:03:23,880 --> 02:03:26,680
done a couple, I've taken notes,
I've changed stuff.

2281
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:30,040
It will happen again and again,
you know, because this stuff is,

2282
02:03:30,200 --> 02:03:32,240
this stuff is changing like,
like the Roma sort of thing, you

2283
02:03:32,240 --> 02:03:35,280
know, oh, there's new software
for this or there's new versions

2284
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:39,200
of, there's new versions of
stuff in Luminex or product X as

2285
02:03:39,200 --> 02:03:40,400
an end of life.
OK, cool.

2286
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:44,760
Or you know.
So when do you get to go home to

2287
02:03:45,920 --> 02:03:49,520
your your significant other and
possibly?

2288
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:54,280
Your dog as well Possible dog
the I think I fly home the 27th

2289
02:03:54,280 --> 02:03:56,520
of October.
OK.

2290
02:03:56,680 --> 02:03:58,200
And you're home for a little
while or.

2291
02:03:58,560 --> 02:04:02,120
Yeah, I'm for a little bit, I
might have a couple of little

2292
02:04:02,120 --> 02:04:03,760
trips.
I've not booked anything in next

2293
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:06,280
year yet and asked for a couple
of things.

2294
02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:11,360
But there is a bit of me that's
trying to go actually put my

2295
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:14,400
best foot forward a show behind
her for a bit and see what

2296
02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:17,560
happens.
So, so yeah, we will.

2297
02:04:17,560 --> 02:04:19,800
Is your partner in in the
business as well?

2298
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:24,280
Yeah, she's a she's a production
electrician for theatre shows.

2299
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:27,400
Oh cool, so she's local, she
doesn't travel.

2300
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:30,040
Or she does travel.
Yeah.

2301
02:04:30,040 --> 02:04:33,000
We, we, we live in, we live in
the Midlands of the UK.

2302
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:34,960
So we're, we're about a couple
of hours out of London.

2303
02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:37,080
So there's a fair amount of
toeing and froing from London.

2304
02:04:37,320 --> 02:04:39,080
Oh, OK.
Yeah, we have the carbon

2305
02:04:39,080 --> 02:04:40,800
footprint of a charcoal
Sasquatch, so.

2306
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:44,560
That's funny.
Yeah.

2307
02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:47,840
So yeah, sort of in and out of
town and then depending on what

2308
02:04:47,840 --> 02:04:49,760
we're prepping and we're sort of
we're lucked out.

2309
02:04:49,760 --> 02:04:52,400
We moved, we moved there and and
everyone else seems to have

2310
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:55,400
moved to us.
So we're about 3540 minutes away

2311
02:04:55,400 --> 02:04:57,920
from PRG in Longbridge and we're
about an hour away from Christie

2312
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:02,200
and about an hour away from
solar Tech, so which is not too

2313
02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:03,720
bad.
So if we're ever prepping stuff

2314
02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:06,000
in any of those warehouses, it's
great because we just go home

2315
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:07,480
for an evening.
That's perfect.

2316
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:09,960
That's perfect.
Yeah, she's, yeah, she's in the

2317
02:05:09,960 --> 02:05:11,160
trade.
So we sort of the at the start

2318
02:05:11,160 --> 02:05:12,960
of this year I had six months
off and she went off and did

2319
02:05:12,960 --> 02:05:16,840
about 5 W end shows.
Nice, so who takes care of the

2320
02:05:16,840 --> 02:05:20,560
dog when you're both gone?
We have an amazing pair of

2321
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:23,400
doxiters who are nice.
He's been going there since he

2322
02:05:23,400 --> 02:05:25,440
was a puppy and he gets.
What kind of dog is he?

2323
02:05:25,440 --> 02:05:27,760
On the road he's a Parsons
Russell Terrier.

2324
02:05:28,440 --> 02:05:30,080
He's like, I have no idea what
that looks like.

2325
02:05:30,320 --> 02:05:31,640
He's like a Jack Russell or big
legs.

2326
02:05:31,640 --> 02:05:34,800
Ah, yeah, OK.
He's got a little bit of

2327
02:05:34,800 --> 02:05:36,880
Australian Shepherd in him.
So he's also really, really

2328
02:05:36,880 --> 02:05:39,720
clever.
So keeping him, keeping occupied

2329
02:05:39,720 --> 02:05:42,120
is is key.
Yeah, Yeah.

2330
02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:43,960
Yeah, Yeah.
Amazing, Austin.

2331
02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:45,000
Yeah.
Fun.

2332
02:05:45,400 --> 02:05:46,480
Yeah.
Cool.

2333
02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:49,200
Well, I appreciate you taking
the time to do this.

2334
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:50,920
It sounds like you've had a busy
morning.

2335
02:05:51,320 --> 02:05:53,160
Yeah.
I've had a little bit of a busy

2336
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:55,880
morning but I now have I now
have an afternoon and a day off

2337
02:05:55,880 --> 02:05:57,320
tomorrow so.
Nice.

2338
02:05:57,320 --> 02:06:02,560
I will be visiting the sign
museum apparently, and I imagine

2339
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:05,720
that there'll be, like I say,
some bar somewhere with beer and

2340
02:06:05,720 --> 02:06:06,560
chicken wings.
So.

2341
02:06:06,760 --> 02:06:09,680
Perfectly quite content.
You're not getting up to Western

2342
02:06:09,680 --> 02:06:14,360
Canada, are you?
No, we just, we did our one show

2343
02:06:14,360 --> 02:06:17,880
in Vancouver and then we did
Toronto a couple of nights ago,

2344
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:20,600
but that's that's it, OK.
Yeah.

2345
02:06:20,600 --> 02:06:22,360
Well, I won't see a shame
because I love it out there.

2346
02:06:22,360 --> 02:06:24,320
It's really.
Yeah, yeah, it's nice.

2347
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:26,320
It's a nice time of year too.
I mean, it's a little cold

2348
02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:28,440
today, but it's been, it's been
beautiful.

2349
02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:31,800
Yeah, it's fine with it.
Yeah, yeah, you like cold.

2350
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:34,520
I like the cold.
I don't really like the heat.

2351
02:06:34,520 --> 02:06:36,520
I think is more of the thing.
Yeah, yeah.

2352
02:06:36,520 --> 02:06:39,960
You know, I'm very much still
this blonde and ginger so I have

2353
02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:44,280
to put factor 50 on to open the
fridge more than go outside so.

2354
02:06:44,280 --> 02:06:47,720
England England is a good place
to be when you are allergic to

2355
02:06:47,720 --> 02:06:50,240
sunlight, that's for sure.
It is, yeah.

2356
02:06:50,440 --> 02:06:52,720
But then if I'm there, then
people go, oh come on, come and

2357
02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:55,920
do a European Tour and then
you're in Italy and it's 40°.

2358
02:06:55,920 --> 02:06:59,240
I'm just going.
No, no, absolutely not.

2359
02:06:59,600 --> 02:07:02,240
That's funny.
Yeah, my, my son raced in

2360
02:07:02,240 --> 02:07:06,760
England all last year.
He lived there, and I just

2361
02:07:06,760 --> 02:07:09,040
remember getting the calls from
him, like, dead.

2362
02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:14,280
Like you dead.
You don't understand what it's

2363
02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:17,040
like to start a race on dry,
then it's wet, then it's a

2364
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:19,720
little bit wet, then it's dry,
then the sun comes out, then

2365
02:07:19,720 --> 02:07:22,320
it's pouring rain.
And you know, yeah, he's like,

2366
02:07:22,320 --> 02:07:24,520
it's unbelievable.
Like I don't.

2367
02:07:24,560 --> 02:07:26,600
Know what to dress?
I'm doing festivals in it.

2368
02:07:26,760 --> 02:07:29,120
Yeah, that's true too, huh?
That's.

2369
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:31,120
True too.
Before we had IP rated fixtures

2370
02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:34,520
that was.
Yeah, Oh my God, with all those,

2371
02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:40,960
all those inflated things like
fixture condoms, Yeah.

2372
02:07:41,040 --> 02:07:43,280
Awful, awful.
I did a many years ago, I did a

2373
02:07:43,280 --> 02:07:45,920
show on the South Bank in the
middle of February, the South

2374
02:07:45,920 --> 02:07:49,760
Bank of the Thames middle of
February with like 70 odd

2375
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:52,880
sharpies.
And there was me, I can't

2376
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:55,480
remember who's crew chafing it.
And then the lovely Praderi

2377
02:07:55,480 --> 02:07:59,320
Baskerville who who's Roger
Walters, LD looking after it.

2378
02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:01,480
And yeah, we were just putting
these things out of the South

2379
02:08:01,480 --> 02:08:05,520
Bank at the the condoms are
flying off and the tent they'd

2380
02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:08,200
sent us to put the dimmers in,
we literally went away, 15

2381
02:08:08,200 --> 02:08:10,400
minutes to go, about to wait,
came back and the tents sort of

2382
02:08:10,400 --> 02:08:13,800
just broken into tiny pieces.
Yeah, it's like, oh, we're going

2383
02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:15,440
to go about that.
We're going to get a run up.

2384
02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:17,360
We're going to get a van.
We're going to put the dimmers

2385
02:08:17,360 --> 02:08:19,320
in the van.
Oh my goodness.

2386
02:08:19,680 --> 02:08:21,880
Yeah, yeah.
England weather is yeah,

2387
02:08:21,880 --> 02:08:24,600
variable.
Yeah, variable at best, Yeah.

2388
02:08:24,880 --> 02:08:27,240
No, my kid.
And you know, he's a knucklehead

2389
02:08:27,240 --> 02:08:31,840
from South Florida.
And so he's like the only kid

2390
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:37,040
over there in end of October or
early November in shorts.

2391
02:08:37,240 --> 02:08:41,760
Like he's got shorts and AT
shirt on and no socks and flip

2392
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:44,800
flops or whatever.
And people are like, what is

2393
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:47,560
wrong with you?
Yeah, there's something wrong.

2394
02:08:47,880 --> 02:08:49,880
And roadies?
Just Yeah, the shorts

2395
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:51,680
department.
Yeah, it's crazy.

2396
02:08:51,800 --> 02:08:54,040
It's crazy.
Hi, my friend.

2397
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:55,840
Well, well, thank you again.
Thank you.

2398
02:08:56,000 --> 02:08:56,640
Yeah, I will.
Yeah.

2399
02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:59,080
It's been interesting catch up
with your LDI question mark.

2400
02:08:59,400 --> 02:09:01,840
Yeah, I'll be at LDI.
We're doing something fun at LDI

2401
02:09:01,840 --> 02:09:04,240
that we're going to announce in
the next couple weeks.

2402
02:09:04,240 --> 02:09:09,560
But Geezers of Gear presents
blank and it'll be a blast.

2403
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:11,000
It's going to be fun.
Fantastic stuff.

2404
02:09:11,000 --> 02:09:12,800
I look forward to it.
Yeah, right.

2405
02:09:12,800 --> 02:09:14,000
Well, look, thank you so much
for having me.

2406
02:09:14,240 --> 02:09:16,080
On and you.
All right, Thanks.

2407
02:09:16,280 --> 02:09:17,360
Bye, bye take.
Care.