#264 - David “Duck” Burns

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Hey, here's episode #264 with
David Duck Burns.

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And so the whole duck thing, we
had to get into that.

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I had to ask him where it came
from.

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You know, I'm a big fan of of
people who have these funny

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names in our industry, funny
nicknames, and so had to find

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out where Duck came from.
I found out and it's funny.

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We actually even have an image
that he shared with us.

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So, you know, Duck has done a
lot of really cool stuff, owned

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his own lighting company, worked
with Robert Roth and survived

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and went through the whole world
stage.

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You know, worked there for a few
years, learned a lot of stuff

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and then watched it crash and we
talked about that a bit and lots

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of fun stories.
So very enjoyable episode.

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I hope you love it as much as I
liked recording it.

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Have fun.
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I'll tell you, it's been an

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interesting week so far.
Yesterday, of course, I recorded

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with Jake Berry and Jake and I
had an offline conversation that

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I can't share much about, but
very disappointed in in

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something that he told me.
And I mean, if you want to hear

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a personal story, you can call
me or reach out to me, but I'm

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not going to share it on the
podcast.

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But yeah, very disappointed in
what I heard.

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And I'm sure there's thirteen
sides to every story, but this

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one I didn't like.
Some other news that came out of

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Plaza this week is that SGM has
been purchased by Golden Sea out

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of China.
And so this is interesting for a

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number of reasons.
And I will admit right now I

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don't have a lot of facts yet.
I do have some, I guess,

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information through all kinds of
different sources and stuff.

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You know, there's been a, a
Facebook group post that, you

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know, for me, that group tends
to be sketchy at best when it

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comes to its sharing of
information.

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Sometimes there's really good
information coming out of it,

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but usually it's a lot of
opinions and propaganda and, and

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stuff that isn't always
necessarily 100% true.

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So make sure you check in with
the sources, make sure you

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listen to reliable people, talk
to reliable people.

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I generally won't share
information unless I have some

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facts on it.
So I won't usually share opinion

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or I will share opinions.
Certainly everything I share is

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an opinion, but I won't share
information that that, you know,

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I've sort of heard through the
Grapevine unless I think it's

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true or I think I have some
foundation to share that.

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So this is true.
You can look it up gold and see

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has purchased SGM.
Some of the things that I've

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I've sort of heard or talk to
people about and I can't

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necessarily tell you who those
people are.

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Some will be competitors to SGM,
some are employees of SGM, some

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are maybe even former management
or ownership of SGM.

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And So what I'm hearing so far
is basically, yes, Golden Sea

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has bought SGM.
What I do know is that SGM had

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made the decision either to file
bankruptcy or to sell the

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company.
They were shopping the company.

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I am told that the pricing was
fire sale pricing.

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You know, the company was under
a fire sale.

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So basically emergency, we need
to sell it before a certain

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date.
And therefore the price was

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obviously at at rock bottom for
a company with their history.

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And certainly SGM has some great
products, some great people and

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some great history.
So that is very important when

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you're looking at a brand like
that.

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The things that I don't know are
well, so let's stay with what I

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know for now.
What happens to Denmark?

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I guess that more falls into the
what I don't know.

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From what I understand, they
have hired back employees.

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They are fully functional as a
factory right now since the SGM

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purchase or since the Golden Sea
purchase.

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I have been told that Golden Sea
have had people inside the

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factory for since probably early
August, both poking around, but

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then since the purchase also
just looking at how better to

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manage that facility.
You know, there's a lot of

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things there that I'll talk
about on the I don't know side.

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The other things I know is that
the US location in Orlando is

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fully functional, is selling
product.

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They have been taking orders,
they never did shut down in any

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way.
And now for the things that I

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don't know, I don't understand
exactly the ownership of the the

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sort of subsidiaries of SGM, the
US included.

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I am under the understanding or
belief that it is owned

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separately from SGM.
So it's owned by, you know, AUS

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group or people or whatever.
It is a separate entity and

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therefore was not wrapped up in
any of these bankruptcy

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discussions or anything.
Obviously, you don't need a

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USSGM office if you don't have
SGM to sell.

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But aside from that, there was
no disruption to the US office

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and I think some of the other
global offices as well.

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You know, what I don't know is
what Golden sees plans are.

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And so I'm going to try and find
out information and as I do,

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I'll report that back to you.
Here's where I'm going to

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interject my own opinions or
thoughts.

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It seems or feels like SGM maybe
is looking to start expanding

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their manufacturing outside of
China.

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And that will have everything to
do with not just the US taxation

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or or you know, whatever you
want to call it, but basically

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the tariffs that have been
imposed on on some of those

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products coming into the US.
And so I would expect that

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they're looking to manufacture
in other areas and expand their

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manufacturing capabilities.
I don't know if this is one of

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those ideas.
You know, Denmark, I've got some

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experience and some knowledge.
It's not the least expensive

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place in the world to
manufacture.

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And to offset that, I remember
Peter Johansson when he was at

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Martin, not when he was at SGM,
but I think he probably used

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similar principles in setting up
SGM in Denmark.

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But one of his principles was
that he never wanted labor to be

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more than, I believe it was 10%
of the cost of a product.

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And if he was manufacturing
something in Denmark, he wanted

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10% or less to be the labor
cost.

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And the thinking behind that was
at that point we can compete

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with anyone in the world.
It doesn't matter how little

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they pay their employees.
As long as we have good

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automation in the factory and
we're able to manufacture very

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efficiently with less labor
cost, we will be able to compete

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with any country in the world.
That was partially true.

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You certainly saw that
companies, including Martin went

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to less expensive areas to
manufacture.

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I think most of them, the Martin
products are either made in

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China or mostly in Hungary, I
think at this point.

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And so, yeah, I mean, it's an
interesting move.

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I, I don't know exactly how SGM
will fit into the picture with

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Golden Sea.
I haven't yet talked to a lot of

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key people that I would like to
talk to and get some information

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from them on that.
So that instead of interjecting

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with opinion and, and Marcel's
thoughts, I'm interjecting with

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facts and, and backed up
information.

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So congratulations to the
employees of the company.

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You are not only saved, but
you're now part of a larger

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group that is well funded, that
is a public company, publicly

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traded stock in China.
And they're a great company.

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I mean, Golden Sea have done
amazing things.

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And I would expect that it's
going to be a positive change

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for SGM.
And you know, for people who

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think that they're just going to
pick up and move everything to

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China, that hasn't been how
they've done things in the past.

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And yes, Ayrton products are
manufactured in China, but

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they're still designed,
developed, supported in France.

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And I've been to the facility,
so I know it exists.

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I know it's not just a fake
made-up thing on social media.

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They do actually have a facility
in France where they support

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their products.
They design their products, they

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engineer their products.
It's where Chris, the CEO, Chris

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Ferrante's office is in Paris
and or just outside of Paris.

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And so, yeah, I mean, I think
this this is obviously a good

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thing for a brand that struggled
for a while.

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SGM hasn't had the easiest run
for a long time.

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And remember, SGM is a very old
brand.

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It's not like they've they've
only been around for 15 years or

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something.
I remember SGM in Italy a long,

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long time ago, and I'm talking
like 30 years ago.

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And so, you know, I think this
is potentially a very, a very

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positive thing for SGM for its
employees anywhere in the world,

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certainly in America.
I think they're going to put on

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a harder push.
I just don't know how fits, you

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know, does SGM stay separate
from Airton, You know, is SGMA

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competitor to Airton or is SGM
different than Airton?

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Does SGM as a brand go away and
does that manufacturing facility

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just become part of Golden Sea?
And it makes all kinds of

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products, not just SGM products.
None of these things I have

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answers to yet.
I don't know what their vision

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or or their future holds.
I will let you know more

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information as I hear it.
So today's podcast we have David

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Duck Burns who is an experienced
account manager and technical

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director with a demonstrated
history of working in the events

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services industry.
Skilled in production

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management, stage management,
lighting, sound, video, LED and

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rigging.
From opera to country, hip hop

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to metal, dance, theater,
television and corporate events.

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David, sorry there was a typo
here.

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Sarah.
David has worked them all.

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He has loved living abroad and
traveling the world over the

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last 40 years.
The friends, knowledge and

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business contacts he has gained
are beyond measure.

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So please folks, join me in.
Welcome David Duck Burns to the

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podcast episode #264 Well, I see
a duck whack, whack, whack

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whack.
Never heard that one before, I

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bet.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No, most.
Most of the time it's Goose.

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Oh, really?
That's funny.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, get the ghost a lot.
You know, we're absolutely gonna

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get to, to where that name came
from because I've got a, I've

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got a, a love for sort of the
history of people's, you know,

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funny names in our industry.
And, you know, like some of the

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funniest, like poop.
I'm sure you know poop.

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Oh, I know James.
Yeah, I know James.

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Yeah.
I'm like, that's what I use.

227
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,000
An example is like.
I'm glad to have the duck

228
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,720
nickname because there's a lot
worse with.

229
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,200
Ring Dick.
Exactly.

230
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,880
You know, poop.
On the there's some.

231
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,080
Yeah, there's some bad ones out
there.

232
00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,960
What are some other bad ones?
Come on Cher.

233
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,800
Ring Dick.
What ring Dick?

234
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,680
I've never heard.
That one Sean Webb, I think he

235
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,440
used to work with audio analyst
a lot.

236
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,120
Yeah, with the Lucchesi
brothers.

237
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,080
I don't know Sean though.
There's.

238
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,920
Ring Dick.
I don't even want to hear how.

239
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,400
Yeah, I think, yeah.
I don't know the channel.

240
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,480
The channel might ban you if we
tell that story.

241
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,840
But I don't know.
We've told some interesting

242
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,280
stories.
There's some bad ones out there,

243
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,640
but yeah, Duck is a good one to
have.

244
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,280
I tried to shake it a few times
over the years, you know, as

245
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,480
especially when I move from
touring into corporate.

246
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,680
Yeah.
And then you find out that the

247
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,320
corporate people think that's
just the coolest, funniest thing

248
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,600
ever.
And so, yeah, now, I guess now

249
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,840
you just call it a brand, right?
It's your thing.

250
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,000
That's how people know you and.
But you never went as far as

251
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,760
legally changing your name or
anything.

252
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:50,400
Because some.
People.

253
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,520
Have like some people have taken
on their their their stage name

254
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,920
and.
Monikers.

255
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,840
Yeah, yeah.
But we used to check into hotels

256
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:00,720
like, you know.
Oh, really?

257
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,680
Yeah, you used to go in, you
know, you, you roll off the bus

258
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,960
and you roll up to the front
desk and it's like, hey, I'm

259
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,120
Duck, I'm Scooter.
And there's your envelope with

260
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,800
your name on it, right?
You're talking.

261
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,040
And it's like.
That's fantastic.

262
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,480
I love it.
So yes, yesterday I I had Jake

263
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,920
Berry on and like most people in
the industry, I'm sure you've

264
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,160
worked with Jake at some point
in your life.

265
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,320
Been fortunate enough to cross
paths with Jake.

266
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,400
Yeah, I mean, I got one of the.
I think he's one of the the PM.

267
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,840
Oh, geez.
Right, Like he's, he's got to be

268
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,400
up there on the.
List.

269
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,120
He's the He's the benchmark.
Yeah, I think so.

270
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,120
He's like, he's the, he's the
top of the mountain.

271
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,240
Well, plus, if you're going to
do something massive, like if

272
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,320
you're going to go and break
barriers and just here's the

273
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,640
conventional, here's you know
how we're going to do it.

274
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,280
And you know, like yesterday as
an example, he said Bono came to

275
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,360
him one time and I can't
remember the whole story.

276
00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,640
You have to listen to the
podcast.

277
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,400
But he said Bono came to him and
said, hey, Jake, I want to do

278
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:10,640
the stadium thing in the round
and can we do that?

279
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,960
Is that possible?
And Jake said B, if you ask for

280
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,720
it, it's possible.
You know, we'll do it.

281
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,200
If you want it, we'll.
Do it.

282
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:24,599
And and so they did, you know,
and so I mean, the sphere thing

283
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,280
for him was just another
challenge that he needed to

284
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,760
tackle and all that kind of
stuff.

285
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,560
So I love the guy, but.
That that show looks so good in

286
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,440
there.
That's so amazing.

287
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,480
Yeah.
And, and, and industry people

288
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,320
get it.
Like, we know what it took to

289
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,680
get that show on the stage,
right?

290
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,800
Yeah.
And all the all the players,

291
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,400
everything had to fall in line
the the amount of pre production

292
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,880
that goes into something like
that.

293
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,040
Well, it.
Was almost a year.

294
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,440
It was almost a year for them
planning for it.

295
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,960
It was insane how much time and
effort you too.

296
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,520
And and you should really listen
to it because it's super

297
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,680
interesting the things like how
even just how they did

298
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,040
rehearsals, like how do you
rehearse for a venue that you

299
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,240
know, has never existed before,
a format that's never even just

300
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,400
the audio, like having the band
with this wacky surround audio.

301
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,000
And, you know, and he said Edge
would say, hey, I want, you

302
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,760
know, my guitar in that one
song, I want it in the top

303
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,920
right.
And then in this other song, I

304
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,520
want it in the bottom left or
whatever.

305
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,400
Like he'd because you could
position it wherever you wanted

306
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,000
it, right.
And but yeah, just talking

307
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,320
through that was was incredible.
And you know, I'll tell you one

308
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,840
thing he did is I've been a
fairly regular naysayer of the

309
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,040
whole sphere thing.
Like I've, I've used Led

310
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,080
Zeppelin as the example.
If I see Led Zeppelin, like if

311
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,200
God forbid, Bonham wherever to
come out of the grave and say,

312
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,720
OK, I want to do one more gig
and they put it all together and

313
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,360
I got to see Led Zeppelin
because it's my one.

314
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,520
Like, God damn it, I never saw
Led Zeppelin, right?

315
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,280
I never saw The Beatles either.
But Led Zeppelin for me is the

316
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,760
big one.
And so would I want to see him

317
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,600
in the sphere or would I want to
see him in a in an arena or even

318
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,840
a stadium stage?
And to me, the sphere is very

319
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,280
distracting.
It's hard to see the band.

320
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,680
And Jake changed my whole
mindset on that.

321
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,480
He said.
It's a very different experience

322
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,840
and you have to look at it as
that.

323
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:34,080
It's a different way of
experiencing that music and you

324
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,960
can't compare it to an arena
show.

325
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,160
You just can't and and.
That, yeah, that's true.

326
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:46,320
It's a fact.
And it's just the, yeah, the

327
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,320
complete immersive nature of
that.

328
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,440
Same word he.
Used yeah is incredible and I

329
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,160
think that but I'm as you're
telling me that I'm thinking man

330
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,840
could you imagine seeing the
song remains the same like the.

331
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,040
Footage.
Just like completely surrounding

332
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,160
the band.
Yeah, stages like.

333
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,800
You know the John Bonham piece
where the dragster is going and

334
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,360
he's doing the drugs I love?
I never.

335
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:11,160
Thought of that.
You're like.

336
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,400
It's a good point.
Yeah, it's a good point.

337
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:17,120
Or even Stairway to Heaven, you
know, like, what would they do

338
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,880
for Stairway to?
You know, I never thought of

339
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,560
these things.
Yeah, that would be incredible.

340
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,680
But again, I'd still rather just
see the band.

341
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,360
Like I wouldn't even want LED
screens except for for, you

342
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,920
know, IMAG or whatever.
Like I just would want to see

343
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,800
the band, just the guys in the
band and hear it great and all

344
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,120
that kind of stuff.
I don't know if I'd.

345
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,960
Want all that immersion getting
an old school show?

346
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,360
Yeah, maybe for your 10th time
seeing them or something.

347
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,720
You know, it's like all these
dead heads that went for dead

348
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,160
and company.
Oh yeah, and the fish and all.

349
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,000
That yeah, like those people to
see it in a different way for

350
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,840
them was like life changing,
right?

351
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,040
Like I've got a friend who's a
crazy fish van like to the

352
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,440
extreme.
He's seen 200 shows or

353
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,080
something, right?
And, and he said it, it, it

354
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,240
changed his life, you know,
seeing them in the.

355
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,400
Visuals pretty amazing.
I I leave for Vegas tomorrow.

356
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,280
I may try to sneak over there on
Sunday and see.

357
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:15,800
Oh cool.
Cool.

358
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,280
Oh, they're, they're in the
sphere now, right?

359
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,080
Yeah, I think they, yeah, I
think they start this weekend.

360
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,400
So if I, oh, do they sneak over
before the show I'm working on

361
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,240
starts?
That would be cool maybe.

362
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,120
Isn't this weekend because UFC
is in there in a couple weeks?

363
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,360
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, that's a quick

364
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:33,800
turn.
Around.

365
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,200
That's going to be crazy.
Well, I heard they're having

366
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,000
trouble, I read yesterday that
they're having trouble selling

367
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,840
like tickets that were I think
the cheapest seat was $3000 for

368
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,680
nosebleeds.
And those are down to like 7

369
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:54,040
something now because you can't
see the, the sphere screen stuff

370
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,480
from some of these Nosebleed
seats.

371
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,600
And so it just takes away that
whole experience.

372
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,680
And now it's just a fight from
far away and I might as well

373
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,240
just go watch it on
pay-per-view, right?

374
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,880
So.
But back back to Jake.

375
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,000
You got any of your own Jake
stories?

376
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,600
Have you ever worked with him or
anything?

377
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,280
So I I've had the privilege of
being on a couple of his teams

378
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,480
over the years, but the first,
my first interaction was him was

379
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:27,040
probably my favorite one.
And this was pretty sure we were

380
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,960
out doing it was glass spider,
right?

381
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,640
Oh, Dave Roy.
Yeah.

382
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:37,040
And we were in Van, I don't
think we're in Vancouver, up in

383
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,640
BC.
And I was out there with the

384
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,360
opening act, right?
So I'm out there with the

385
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:46,280
Georgia satellites.
And I had only been in the

386
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,000
business a short amount of time
at that level, right?

387
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,160
Like on that national touring,
I've done the bar circuit stuff,

388
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,840
worked for the local small
company when I was in high

389
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,640
school, that kind of thing.
But I'd only been in the, the,

390
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,560
the, the big time there for, for
a very only a few years at that

391
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,480
point.
But I knew who Jake Berry was,

392
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,000
right.
And I'm sitting and catering and

393
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,680
he just, he came in and he sat
down and he was eating his

394
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,360
supper.
And I'm just, I'm just sitting

395
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:18,440
there like I'm like 1819, you
know?

396
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,160
I'm just like, Oh my God.
Guys, the OG.

397
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,040
And so I was just, I said
something along the lines of

398
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,440
man, how do you, how do you do
it?

399
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,080
How do you, how do you do this?
And he just looked right up at

400
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,320
me and very just calmly said,
Hey, is it it's really easy.

401
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,400
You don't have to be an asshole
all the time.

402
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,560
You have to have the ability to
be a complete one when the time

403
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,480
comes, but you don't have to be
nice to people.

404
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,800
And I'm just like, I really,
that was like the coolest thing,

405
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,960
right?
So simple.

406
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,160
Yet so powerful, right you know,
and don't be a Dick.

407
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,360
Don't be a Dick.
It's some of the best.

408
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,520
Like it's how do you survive on
a tour bus?

409
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,040
Don't be a Dick, you know?
Yeah, don't be a Dick and you'll

410
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,640
be fine, you know.
And gosh, it's, it's amazing how

411
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,320
far that can carry you in so
many different parts of life.

412
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,680
But in touring life, it's
massive because you literally

413
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,640
become part of a forced family,
you know, for however many weeks

414
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,400
and you live in very close
quarters and, you know, you're

415
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,000
together all day, every day and,
and.

416
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,040
All night, every night,
especially in the old days,

417
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,200
dude, Yeah, when we're doing 5-6
cities a week and then you get a

418
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,480
bus ride for a day off and then
you're, you're pounding out, you

419
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,840
know, up all those one nighters
with these massive rigs.

420
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,400
The level of trust that has to
be instilled very quickly.

421
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,640
The teamwork that gets in gets
developed very quickly.

422
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,320
I miss those days, man.
I miss those, those because

423
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,240
that's what touring was, right?
And I was lucky enough to start

424
00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:00,280
in the industry about the time
that most of the cats who

425
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,640
figured out really how to do it
in the 60s and 70s were starting

426
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,960
to retire a little bit, right?
So I still had.

427
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:13,200
When and how did you start?
So I mean it really just years,

428
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,560
years are horrible for me,
doesn't.

429
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,400
Matter.
Mid 80s, I would say, yeah.

430
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,520
So started out doing some of the
regional bar band stuff with a

431
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,480
lot of the Atlanta had a great
music scene there in the 80s.

432
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,560
I mean, we had all these just
incredible, incredible bands.

433
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,880
So I'm working with local bands
like the Swinging Richards and

434
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,680
Bareback PG13, which would some
of those guys would evolve into

435
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,720
Jackal.
Oh yeah, Jesse Dupree and those

436
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,320
cats.
Yeah, yeah, my ex-wife worked

437
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,160
for Geffen and was part of the
team breaking Jackal at the

438
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,480
time.
Yeah, so I saw them way too many

439
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,160
times.
Illusion, which was one of MO

440
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,160
from Mother Steinus side
projects.

441
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,440
Incredible musicians, right?
We just had the best music scene

442
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,920
here and so doing a bunch of
regional stuff with them and

443
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,320
then I ended up the big break
was Kevin Jennings.

444
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,080
I had been helping out a band
called The Hell Hounds and

445
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,960
working at a couple of the local
venues, working with a couple of

446
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,600
the local sound companies and
stuff.

447
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,440
And I started off in audio and
then doing backline and Kevin

448
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,880
Jennings ended up managing the
Satellites.

449
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,680
When they reformed, he had taken
their demo.

450
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,520
They couldn't get any traction
here, so they kind of split up.

451
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,680
Dan Dan was doing something
else.

452
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,400
And then Rick, Rick and Morrow
had the Hell Hounds and it was

453
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,960
just Chucka, Chucka 145, you
know, just pick up rock'n'roll

454
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,840
stuff.
And so we were doing a bunch of

455
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,200
dates and then Kevin took the
demo back to Europe and got them

456
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,480
a deal.
So they got back together and

457
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,960
then Electra picked them up.
I think Electra picked them up

458
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,240
and then so that's kind of how I
got kind of thrust into the

459
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,360
national touring.
Thing so they dragged you along

460
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,360
with them.
Yeah, so it was me, me who was a

461
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,480
dude.
I was so young and stupid and I

462
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,600
just, I knew nothing and thought
I knew everything and knew

463
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,920
nothing.
A guy named Steve Winstead out

464
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,240
of New York was was a guitar
attack and kind of stage manager

465
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,600
who I believe is still working
with Mike Campbell of I know for

466
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,440
sure from Tom Petty.
Steve's Steve's kind of a legend

467
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:40,320
in the guitar tech world, but I
was young and and just.

468
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,240
So what was your gig?
Maybe not quite mature enough.

469
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,040
So I was doing I was doing
drums, I was doing back line.

470
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,360
Oh, OK, right.
So I was doing drums tomorrow

471
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,440
and then taking care of stage
left during the show.

472
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,280
And the way I got I got thrust
into the lighting is we were out

473
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,600
doing Oreo Speedwagon, opening
for Oreo and Hartley was on

474
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,440
Brian was on that tour, Robert
Cooper was on.

475
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,120
That was I think it was life as
we know it.

476
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:15,880
And getting to tour with those
guys was like the that was like

477
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,760
the All Star of All Stars,
right?

478
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,160
Like, and everybody had a
nickname, right?

479
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:27,000
So it was Motor, Liz Sluggo,
Porky, like all these great guys

480
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,320
who are fucking legends, right?
And they had their own roadie

481
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,200
band called Hotel Bill and the
Incidentals that would open some

482
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,800
of the shows getting a tour with
those guys.

483
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,840
And at one point during that
tour, Kevin Jennings comes over

484
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,640
and he goes, hey, man, can you
do lights for us?

485
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,000
And I'm like, sure.
You're like thinking like, of

486
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,560
course I can't kidding me,
right?

487
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,840
So I walk out the front of
house.

488
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,120
This is big less avo like 8100
or something, you know, 180

489
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,920
channel 3 scene pen matrix
thing.

490
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:04,480
And I'm just like, oh shit.
And it was the LV for them.

491
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,280
I think I want to make sure I
get this right because he

492
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,200
deserves Jim Stevens.
Jim Stevens was the LD for REO

493
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,960
and he just happened to be
sitting out there and he goes,

494
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,520
no idea, no idea what you're
doing.

495
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,000
And I was like, absolutely not.
And so for like the next 5 weeks

496
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,680
while we were out there opening,
he, he said, all right, here's

497
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,200
what we're going to do.
I'm going to teach how to do

498
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,880
this.
And he every night I would sit

499
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,920
there with a headset on and kind
of the first few nights just

500
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,000
kind of watched him listen to
him call the spots and watch

501
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,440
them run the show.
And then it at a certain point

502
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,400
he let me start banging the.
Bud handed you the wheel.

503
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,760
Handed me the wheel, but he kept
calling the spots for another

504
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,400
few days and then he kind of
just handed that off to me as we

505
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,240
went.
So about 3 1/2 to four weeks in

506
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,440
it because we're doing what,
five nights a week, right?

507
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,520
So you get to practice your
craft.

508
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,360
And I absolutely fell in love
with it.

509
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,640
I fell in love with the just
kind of visually representing

510
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,160
what was happening, kind of
helping control the the mood of

511
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,560
the audience with what you're
doing and seeing that, seeing

512
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,680
how everything all interacted
together.

513
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,280
It was such an awesome learning
experience.

514
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,240
And Motor and Liz and all those
people really took me under

515
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,960
their wing, dude.
Because I would show up for

516
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,440
rigging calls, right?
I did the same thing on Seger

517
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,320
when we were open it for Bob
Seger.

518
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,720
I would show up for rigging
calls.

519
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,120
I just jump in and help the
sound guys fly their PA or help

520
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,640
the lighting guys fly their
trust.

521
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,160
Just to be around those people
and to learn and putting in that

522
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,760
work ethic kind of got me opened
up some doors, right?

523
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,480
Yeah, what a great.
I mean, what a that's alone is

524
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,240
such a great lesson, You know,
my God, that is such a great

525
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,960
lesson like.
So Jim, if you watch this, thank

526
00:30:58,960 --> 00:30:59,920
you, brother.
Thank you.

527
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,120
No kidding.
That that too.

528
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,600
Like, you know, these days, I
think the only people that are

529
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,600
really doing that still are the
old school people, you know,

530
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,600
like I could see, you know, you,
I could see Cosmo.

531
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,880
I could see like a lot of those
types of people saying, hey,

532
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,960
kid, come over here, watch what
I'm doing.

533
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,440
Let me show you, let me help
you.

534
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,120
You know, let's help get your
desk set up properly or

535
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,240
whatever, Mark.
Does that a lot.

536
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,320
Mark Thomas, Yeah.
He's doing that a lot, too.

537
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,160
We need.
We need.

538
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,760
Those younger people, man,
we're, we're timing out in the

539
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,640
next 10, five to 10, right?
We're timing out, but we need

540
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,320
them.
I don't want to pick on young

541
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,600
people, so I don't want this to
sound wrong, but I see less

542
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,880
young people who want to share
information in that, that way,

543
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,120
you know, and that's problematic
because I think again, this

544
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,000
industry is one that you know,
where, where people work

545
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,360
together and somehow, you know,
the rising tide sort of

546
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,960
scenario, you know, and when
people just kind of want to

547
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,760
like, go, don't look at my, you
know, don't look at my cues,

548
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,120
what I'm doing over here, you
know, that doesn't help anyone

549
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,880
really.
And I mean, how many secrets

550
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,240
really are there?
You know, it's not like none.

551
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,280
You're doing something.
All ripped them all off.

552
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,840
Of course, Yeah, of course.
And by the way, guess what?

553
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,760
If you're hiding yours, AI is
going to get it anyway, so yeah,

554
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:24,280
for.
Sure.

555
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,720
For sure, Oh my gosh, dude.
But that's, that's kind of how I

556
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:33,440
got started the, the initial
push and then that the REO thing

557
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:40,320
was being done by Nocturne.
And Val D was kind of, I don't

558
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,800
know if Jim said something to
him, but Val was like, Hey, you

559
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,560
know, when you get done with
this, when you get done with

560
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,960
these guys, why don't you give
me a call and let's let's get

561
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,760
you out on some get you working
some more.

562
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,760
Wow.
And I mean, they had a stellar

563
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,880
crew, I mean, Jim.
And then of course, Robert

564
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,080
Cooper was the crew chief and
was on that.

565
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,440
Yeah.
All that to work.

566
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,520
That was the first time I saw
moving.

567
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,520
Moving.
Which was it in the air?

568
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Life as we know it.
Oh, OK, this was Aria.

569
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,960
And this big like, yeah, big
triangle kind of cloverleaf

570
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,520
thing that they would fold in
the sides, right?

571
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,360
I mean, it was, it was really
beautiful, really well done.

572
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,920
But being from Atlanta, we, a
bunch of the shows the

573
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,800
satellites were doing, we ended
up using RA and Jim Chapman.

574
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,680
Yeah, ended up getting the gigs
from, you know, from Live Not

575
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,520
Blows, Southern concerts at the
time, I think, which was Alex

576
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,920
Cooley and Peter Conlon.
And those guys, they were, they

577
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,120
were kind of the kings of
promoting in the Southeast.

578
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,320
And so that's how I got hooked
up with Robert and Jim.

579
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,680
And when my when my time with
the Satellites came to an end, I

580
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:57,680
called, I called Jim and he's
like, hey, come to the shop.

581
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,360
So I went to the shop the next
day and they put me out on the

582
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,600
road like two days later.
Oh wow.

583
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,840
On on that tour with Martin and
which and all those guys.

584
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,320
Oh, that was.
Sorry, Peppa.

585
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,239
Oh, that was on Peppa.
Yeah, right.

586
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,960
Where I got the nickname.
So tell me that.

587
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,400
Tell me the story.
Tell me the nickname story.

588
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,560
We're at that point of the
podcast where we need to learn

589
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,080
where.
How the hell did Duck happened?

590
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,120
So Tom Marzullo was the
production manager on that.

591
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:42,920
Martin Thomas was the LB.
So actually how it happened, it

592
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,880
was, I'm pretty sure we were in
Hartford, CT, we had just

593
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,440
finished, slowed out.
We get on the bus and it was

594
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,400
August 25th, which was my
birthday.

595
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,320
And I don't, somebody found out
it was, I don't know or what.

596
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,720
But the next thing I know, you
know, there's a lot of this

597
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:05,360
going on, a lot of this going on
and the next thing I know just

598
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:07,560
blacked out.
Like I don't remember what

599
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:13,880
happened anything.
But years ago, Martin was

600
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,440
moving.
I found a bunch of old.

601
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,840
Polaroids and sent me a picture
of a picture.

602
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,680
And I don't know how to be good.
I can see it pretty good.

603
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,120
Yeah, it's got a duck bill on
the hat.

604
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,880
Basketball goal stapled in my
chest.

605
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,080
And that's Jack Adams, who we'll
talk about some more.

606
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,240
That is funny.
In the background.

607
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,320
And the next morning everybody's
calling me Doctor Duck, and I

608
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,200
got no, no clue.
Like, I don't, I don't remember

609
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,680
anything.
Oh, you don't even remember

610
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,840
wearing the hat?
No.

611
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,560
So when you saw the picture, you
were like, uh oh.

612
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,800
Dude, I called and I'm like, Oh
my God, yeah.

613
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,600
And so it was just one of those
things.

614
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,480
And yeah, there there are a lot
worse ones to have.

615
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,240
So is that?
And.

616
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,320
And so it just couldn't go away.
Like probably initially you were

617
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,800
like, please stop calling me
that, you know?

618
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,960
I.
I don't remember ever having

619
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,280
like an adverse.
Really.

620
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,600
Right.
You were just like, OK, that's

621
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,440
my name now.
But I will say when I, when I

622
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,000
stopped the touring full time
and kind of moved over and I

623
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,520
went to film and TV 1st and then
moved into corporate.

624
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,800
And when I started doing the
corporate stuff, I was like, you

625
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,200
know, tried to just go back to
the David thing.

626
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800
And and then I found out that
the corporate people, they just

627
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,840
don't get exposed to, you know,
rock'n'roll people.

628
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,120
And so they thought that was
just the bee's knees.

629
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,640
So yeah, I was like, all right,
so we're now we're just gonna

630
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,960
milk it and use it.
Once a duck, always a duck I

631
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,680
guess.
Huh, that's that's how I got the

632
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,440
name.
Yeah, I love it.

633
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,120
What was Looney on that tour to
Bob Looney?

634
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,560
Bobby was on that tour.
Yeah, Bobby and I were

635
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960
roommates.
Oh my goodness.

636
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,840
I don't know, Bobby, have you
had?

637
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,000
Bobby on yet?
I haven't, but you know, I don't

638
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,440
think I have his current number
or something.

639
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,920
I remember trying to reach out
to him and.

640
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,840
We'll get you hooked up.
We'll get you hooked.

641
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,680
Up please cuz I want to get Bob.
On I've.

642
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,520
Mentioned it to him before.
I think I saw him at LDI once or

643
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,560
something a couple years ago.
And I'm like, dude, you got to

644
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:25,640
come on the podcast.
Yeah.

645
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,400
And it's just never happened.
Yeah.

646
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,000
He.
Him and I were roommates on the

647
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,400
1st like fistful of tours that
we were all doing for RA.

648
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,760
And so this is probably 878889
right?

649
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,240
And we are all just out of our
minds as that's how touring in

650
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,960
the 80s was.
And you're talking about an

651
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:56,280
elite group of the most high
functioning addicted personality

652
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,280
people that you could ever.
Assemble.

653
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:03,040
Yeah.
Yeah, who are operating at the

654
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200
highest professional levels in
the questionable.

655
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,480
Somehow conditions.
Yeah, well said.

656
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,920
That's a word salad, but it's
really well, well described.

657
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,440
Yeah, well, with a leader who's
who's no better, you know, like

658
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,480
RA, come on, you know, Oh my
God.

659
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,480
You know, he's, he's a year
clean now, right?

660
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,560
Like completely clean and sober.
Quit alcohol completely.

661
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,120
We still do.
This year was the first year we

662
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,120
haven't done it on minute, but
we every summer we try to get

663
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,160
the Roth guys together here in
Atlanta.

664
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,800
Oh, that's fun.
That's really fun, at least a

665
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,040
little bit of a meet and greet.
We did not get to do it this

666
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,480
year yet.
I mean, it's not.

667
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,320
An idea though, that's cool.
Yeah, but it is really cool to

668
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,200
get everybody together and just
see, you know, just catch up.

669
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,520
And RA shows up to most of them.
Most of them, Yeah.

670
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,760
Robert comes in and hangs out
with us, and I'm sure we'll talk

671
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:57,560
about in a few.
Minutes.

672
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,040
I love that guy.
He's been instrumental through

673
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,640
my career and we always say if
you never worked for him, you

674
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,200
don't ever get to say shit about
him.

675
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,600
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, the guy was an

676
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,040
innovator, you know, like a lot
of the things he did, you know,

677
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,920
and, and I hate to say the
square park in because I know

678
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,720
what's going to happen.
You're going to see.

679
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:22,240
How to prop sitting there ready
to go the square parking, Yeah.

680
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:24,880
The OG square parking.
Unreal.

681
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,600
Unreal.
These things vent better than

682
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,760
the round ones.
Yeah.

683
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:34,000
You would get 6 cuts of gel
perfectly out of a sheet as

684
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,120
opposed to four, and not enough
scrap to do a liko frame.

685
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,360
So there was actually some
thinking involved.

686
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,960
Oh yeah, so and the the bulb was
held in by two springs.

687
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,800
Yeah.
That would never bind, so you

688
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,520
could always rotate it and that
you know, not like those clips

689
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,440
we had in the tonic scans.
And stuff like that.

690
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Pain.
In the ass.

691
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,960
So these things were amazing.
And we built our own trust in

692
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,840
house.
We wired our own trust in house.

693
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,760
Oh, Speaking of which.
That that's just how it used to

694
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,240
be done too, you know?
On trust patching.

695
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,920
Oh my God, you just have this
shit laying around your office

696
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,920
or you brought it in because you
were doing a podcast.

697
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,080
So I.
Called.

698
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,800
My buddy Brian Beck.
Ah, he said.

699
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,720
I need to borrow some props.
That's funny.

700
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,760
All the guitars and stuff for
yours though, right?

701
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,280
Yeah, yeah.
That's all.

702
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,360
Those aren't props.
Yeah, no, those aren't props.

703
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,400
That's awesome though.
Like it's true.

704
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,560
I mean RA and.
Team.

705
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,520
Our AN team really did some cool
innovation and, and you know,

706
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,360
their tours in the in the 80s
and and early 90s and stuff were

707
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,920
amazing.
You know it.

708
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,200
It was.
I got to tell this story.

709
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,360
So one of the first things I go
after we finished up the the

710
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,680
salt and pepper thing, they sent
me out to do Hank Williams

711
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:00,640
Junior.
OK.

712
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,040
And Hank was on a roll of
winning these Entertainer of the

713
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,840
Year award things.
And so he the rig.

714
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,320
The rig was a KISS sized rig for
a country guy, right?

715
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,120
But it's rock.
It's straight up rock'n'roll

716
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,320
except for his like solo
acoustic thing in the middle of

717
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:25,920
the show.
So we had these huge pods that

718
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,520
broke down into two rectangles
with a hundred of these square

719
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,960
pars in each one of those,
right?

720
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,960
Oh wow.
And then we had a thing that

721
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:39,160
went on the back with a Ruger.
Ruger firearms was a big sponsor

722
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,560
of his.
So we had a rope light and

723
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,800
velour drape.
It was a rope light of a Ruger

724
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:51,600
Eagle and and it was velour.
And so we, we fabricated that

725
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,120
and then had we had a way to
mount it to the back of these

726
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,400
huge square pods that sat at
angles in the back of the on the

727
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,560
rig.
So we had upstage, mid stage,

728
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,240
downstage.
We had a bunch of torms hanging

729
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:06,800
off the up stage had these 100
lamp pods that we would start

730
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,800
the show with them flat down
low.

731
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:15,600
We had our own Steve Dunaway,
Wookie, Peter Magdars, Jerry

732
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:21,120
Higginbotham honeymoon, these
guys, Lynn Wheeler, ETC, one of

733
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,920
ET CS top cats.
They custom built all of our

734
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:29,480
control, motor control patching
for the consoles.

735
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,240
All this stuff was all built in
the house.

736
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:37,560
So we had high speed, low speed
motors in our own custom motor

737
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,840
controller and to do the moves
that we were doing with these

738
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,280
things, which we would like I
said we would start down low and

739
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:45,840
then bring them up and tilt them
out.

740
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,640
You know, just.
Yeah.

741
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,320
So awesome.
And this is like 8088.

742
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,760
And that was for Hank Junior.
Yeah.

743
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,320
For Hank Junior, because I mean
in the 80s, in the 80s and even

744
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,480
early 90s, country acts were
like, you know, pretty small

745
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,040
rigs and, and a dozen Intela
beams if you're lucky, you know,

746
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,080
a dozen Intela beams if you're
really good, but.

747
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,120
They got pre.
This is all.

748
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,640
Pre This is all pre Intela Beam
4 hundreds, right?

749
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,800
Yeah, so, but it was cool as
shit to see Steve Dunaway over

750
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,240
there with his fingers on the
motor controller like this and

751
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:25,280
honeymoon standing there with a
stopwatch.

752
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,440
That's how we that's how we did
the motor movement.

753
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,120
And we?
Would take these things and as

754
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,040
we did the show we would turn
them and stuff like that.

755
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,920
But when it came time to do the
acoustic set.

756
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,280
We'd do a.
Full invert and then light up

757
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,200
those Ruger eagles on the back.
I mean this is the kind of shit

758
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,520
we were getting exposed to.
And here I own like 21 at this

759
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,920
point and LD in this stuff. 22
years old and LD these, you

760
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,880
know, these massive rigs.
Yeah.

761
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,880
And nobody, nobody in Hank's
camp had any input at all.

762
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,680
But when you did a tour like
that with Roth, was he

763
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,320
overseeing the design?
Like, you know, were you?

764
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,160
You were designing it sort of in
tandem with him, and then you

765
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,880
were going out and directing.
When I first started like those,

766
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,760
those first ones like Hank and
stuff like that, that was stuff

767
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,600
that him and Jim did design.
OK, Yeah.

768
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,960
Would come up with the designs.
I didn't know enough at that

769
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:22,960
point.
I see.

770
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,840
To.
Do anything.

771
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:26,680
Yeah.
Yeah, that, but.

772
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,200
I could, but I had AI, had
timing, I had a feel.

773
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,840
Yeah.
And really good thanks to Jim

774
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,720
Stevens.
I got really good at calling

775
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:37,720
spots.
Yeah.

776
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:41,160
And that was one thing I always
really took pride in was, was

777
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,880
being really good at that.
And.

778
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,120
Which is a science unto itself.
Oh my God, But it was so much

779
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,920
fun.
And you just get in the cadence

780
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,600
and you're just, you're just in
a rhythm, right?

781
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,440
And you've got the audience in
the palm of your hand with the

782
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,640
artist and you're just killing
it.

783
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,880
And so to get out there at that
age with a rig like that with no

784
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,480
instructions, right?
None.

785
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,360
That's wild.
Was.

786
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:06,960
Incredible.
And yeah, here you go.

787
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,880
Here, here's the keys to the
race car that you're about to go

788
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,320
out and drive at 200 miles an
hour, you know, go for.

789
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:14,640
It Oh, we got to talk about that
too.

790
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Oh yes we do.
I'm using racing analogies

791
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,240
already.
Yeah, I know.

792
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,280
Dude, we got to talk.
I just.

793
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,640
We'll get the racing, don't
worry.

794
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,840
I just renewed my 30th year at
SCA.

795
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,640
Yeah, that's awesome.
No, we'll definitely get into

796
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,400
that.
Me and Jake talked about racing

797
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,200
a bunch yesterday, too, because,
you know, he's a big, he's a big

798
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,240
formula and NASCAR and racing
guy.

799
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,920
There's some really weird
stories that I had no idea, like

800
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,640
he sponsored Scott Speed.
I don't know if you know who

801
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,680
Scott Speed is, but yeah.
Yeah.

802
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,720
So Scott was one of my son's
coaches and his brother Alex and

803
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:52,800
his dad, Mike Speed, owned the
the karting team that my son

804
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,600
raced on for a few years.
And, you know, he built our

805
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,120
engines for a long time and
stuff, and it was just weird

806
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,800
when he goes, yeah, Scott Speed.
And I'm like, wait, you know

807
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,760
Scott Speed?
And he goes, yeah, yeah.

808
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,640
I said, do you know his dad?
And he said, yeah.

809
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,480
And I'm like, Oh my God, I've
been through the ringer with

810
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,600
Mike Speed.
So really funny.

811
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,840
But anyways, we'll get into that
all.

812
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,440
Right.
So, yeah, so just getting the

813
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,920
keys to the Kingdom like that at
that age.

814
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,680
Was so cool.
Was nuts.

815
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,360
And but again, you're really
getting to practice your craft

816
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,560
like 5-6, seven days a week,
right.

817
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,960
So you're, you're you're honing
your chops at a very high rate

818
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,600
of speed and you're just
absorbing.

819
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,040
I was just absorbing all of this
stuff while going through some

820
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,720
serious, like character
development stuff too, like,

821
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:43,640
right.
And so here you are.

822
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,840
You get turned over the keys to
the Kingdom like that.

823
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,600
You, you know, yeah.
Yeah.

824
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:52,520
Cool.
Well, and all the other.

825
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,920
Stuff.
Is being thrown at you at the

826
00:46:54,920 --> 00:47:00,160
same time the the partying and
the the girls and you know the

827
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,320
the unbelievable glamorous
Rockstar lifestyle that you're

828
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,400
living you know and so that's
all being thrown at a 21 year

829
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,560
old kid that's wild like it's.
Oh, yeah, I I got reminded of

830
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,760
that one day when when evidently
I was acting inappropriately.

831
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:22,000
I'm not sure exactly what I did
or said, but I had longer at the

832
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,840
time.
And Kirk Marks, who owned

833
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,440
Rock'n'roll Audio, got me by the
back of the hair, whistled for

834
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,000
Dunaway, dragged me off into one
of those little bathrooms off

835
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,000
the side of the entrance there
in the arena, slammed me up

836
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,120
against the wall.
And they started, you know, and

837
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,840
basically telling me that my
behavior was not going to be

838
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,480
tolerated.
And that's not how professionals

839
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,400
act on the road, right?
You don't remember what you did.

840
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:56,280
I don't remember.
What I said, but evidently I

841
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,320
don't think I said anything
directly to somebody, but I

842
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:05,520
think it was more of a comment
of of something that was

843
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,800
happening.
And the wrong person overheard

844
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,520
the wrong thing.
And it.

845
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,400
Had the wrong result, yeah.
No, it had the right result.

846
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,520
Yeah, yeah, it had the right
result.

847
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,920
I Oh yeah, it did.
I never forgot that, you know,

848
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,960
and and that was that was a good
reckoning to have those guys

849
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,800
fucking legends in the business.
Did they throw?

850
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,440
You on the show or or no?
No, no, no.

851
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,080
No.
Oh.

852
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,120
So they just.
Gave you a good wake up call 0.

853
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,200
Yeah.
Because he knew.

854
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,880
I think they knew that I was,
you know, yeah, I just, I made

855
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,920
some clip about something and it
just rubbed Kurt the wrong way.

856
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,960
But I'm glad it did because I
needed to hear that in that

857
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,440
situation.
I needed to hear.

858
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:54,040
That.
And so again, just luckiest man

859
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,160
alive have had these all these
awesome experiences working with

860
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,960
the top people in our industry.
I just try to learn as much as I

861
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,640
can from them.
Yeah, you know, well, I mean,

862
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,600
again, Roth provided like if you
think of the people that went

863
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,680
through RA Roth, you know, I saw
a picture too.

864
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,120
I was looking for you on
Facebook because I always like

865
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,840
to before we have a guest on,
you know, I like seeing the

866
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,280
personal side of things too, you
know, do they have kids?

867
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,040
Do they have a wife?
Do they have, you know, what are

868
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,600
their hobbies and things like
that?

869
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:30,400
And I couldn't find you, but I
found a post by by Rod Gibson

870
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,560
read and and it was a, a, a
picture.

871
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,880
And I don't know if you remember
the picture.

872
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,760
I could actually find it again
and share it with you.

873
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:44,200
But, you know, but that made me
think again, like of yeah, Red

874
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,800
was that RA Roth too?
Like all these guys, all so many

875
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,360
people went through that shop.
It's unreal.

876
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,280
I dragged.
I was the one who dragged Red

877
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,280
across the border on that STP
tour.

878
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:57,520
Oh, were you?
Oh, interesting, I was.

879
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,000
The stage manager on that tour.
Interesting.

880
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,760
Well, you know, I grew up, I
grew up in Western Canada with

881
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:11,160
Red, you know, and, and I quit
playing in, in bar bands before

882
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,960
he really got big into doing
that.

883
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,440
And my bands were always shit
and we couldn't afford a real

884
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,920
crew anyways.
But you know, but we knew each

885
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,680
other just through the, the
channels and stuff.

886
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,640
And I went to work for a music
store selling guitars back to

887
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,040
all these bands and stuff.
And so, you know, we ran in the

888
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,240
same circles basically.
And we knew each other, but

889
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,640
didn't really have much of a
relationship, and certainly not

890
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,000
from a lighting standpoint until
later on.

891
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,640
But he's a great guy.
There's a couple of stories I'll

892
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,280
tell you offline.
Oh yeah, yeah, some of those,

893
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:47,680
some of those can't be shared
online.

894
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,040
We can tell a couple of those
now.

895
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,200
He might have told it on my
podcast.

896
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,560
I don't know.
Yeah.

897
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,240
About the dry ice bomb.
I don't remember, Tell me.

898
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,040
Oh my God dude that.
Was another one speaking.

899
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,560
Of red real quick.
Here's a here's a good one.

900
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:05,600
You'll love this.
Yeah.

901
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,480
So that salt and pepper R Kelly
tour that he mentioned on his,

902
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,920
on his interview, that's where I
met my wife.

903
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,360
Oh, Kelly and.
What?

904
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,680
What was she doing on the tour?
She was doing wardrobe.

905
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:23,640
She was.
Doing wardrobe?

906
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:30,240
For the girls and for salt,
Pebble and Red introduced me to

907
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,600
Kelly.
So the first time I get called

908
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,400
out, the tour is already two or
three weeks in and I get called

909
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,720
out to stage manage.
Robert sends me out there to

910
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:44,720
stage manages and I flew.
The guy flew to Gulfport, Ms. I

911
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:48,200
walked down in the in the arena
there and I see Kelly at that

912
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,600
time, she's pushing a a cart of
clothes, wearing knee high

913
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,240
motorcycle boots, Daisy Dukes in
a sports bra with her long black

914
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:57,280
curly hair and I'm.
Like, damn.

915
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,000
Yeah.
All right.

916
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,000
Yeah, that's why in the
production office, first thing I

917
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,520
say is, hey, who was that?
Bill Reeves, You know, another

918
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,360
bloody legend who I've had the
the good fortune to work with.

919
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,880
Bill looked to me, he was like,
no, hello.

920
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,360
No, nothing.
I was like, no, not till I find

921
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:16,720
out who that is, right?
Yeah.

922
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,360
So anyway, we get the tour going
we're you know get get on the

923
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:25,520
road there and and Red, red
introduced me to her and then

924
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,200
took about 8 weeks to get her to
go out with me on a day off and

925
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,400
and we finally did on in on
Canada Day in Toronto.

926
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:35,440
We've.
Been doing the.

927
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,080
The Tall Ships Festival and
everything down there in the

928
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,720
Bay, in the harbor.
And so, yeah, Kelly and I spent

929
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,520
the day doing that.
And that's, that was it, man.

930
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,960
We've been together since, yeah,
since 90.

931
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,800
What was that, 91 or whatever it
was?

932
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:48,600
Yeah.
That's wild.

933
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,760
That's got to be tough though,
you know, being, well, I mean,

934
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,880
first of all, having a
relationship with somebody who's

935
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,280
on the same tour as you has got
to be tough.

936
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,040
Awesome.
Really.

937
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,160
Yeah.
There's not a lot of like,

938
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,400
turned up eyebrows and like,
what are you doing?

939
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,800
You know, kind of stuff like,
oh.

940
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,240
No, but the she did, she did
make the, she did make the sound

941
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:13,320
guy pay up because I think at
one point I told her I said,

942
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,040
well, I can't remember his name,
ultrasound image.

943
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:23,000
He and he said, he said, I'll
bet you 100 bucks that yeah, you

944
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,080
don't.
You don't get her really.

945
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,200
And like we, yeah, it was like
the end of the tour party thing.

946
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,760
And Kelly walks over to him and
says hey up.

947
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,680
Oh, that's hilarious.
That's hilarious.

948
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,280
So when did you get married?
So that was what it you said

949
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,000
that was in 89 or 91 or
something?

950
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,080
91 we got married after our
first show which so we didn't

951
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,760
get married until 96.
OK.

952
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,440
And you're.
Still, you survived 95.

953
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:56,200
Survived all those years of
touring and shows and yeah, so

954
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,920
is it better when somebody is in
that lifestyle?

955
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,640
1000% because you just said you
just hit the nail on the head

956
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,320
and I've heard you go over this
with other other guests on your

957
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:11,960
show.
This isn't a job, this is not a

958
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,080
career.
There's no trajectory, there's

959
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,360
no ladder.
I mean, to a certain extent

960
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:21,600
there might be, you know, there
from from trust monkey to tour

961
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:26,120
manager, there's a progression,
but it's a complete lifestyle.

962
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,600
And unless you're willing to
commit yourself to the

963
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,840
lifestyle, you're going to have
a miserable experience treating

964
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:38,160
it as a job.
And because I think one of the

965
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,880
keys to our success anyway, and
there's been other successful

966
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,800
ones where people one wasn't in
the industry and one out.

967
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:51,400
But definitely one of the keys
is she understands, she gets it.

968
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,160
She knows what's she knows what
it takes to do the job.

969
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,320
And therefore, if I have to
leave town or if I had to go do

970
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:04,240
this or go do that, I didn't get
nearly as much crap as people

971
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,160
who were in relationships with
people now who didn't understand

972
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,320
the business.
But the flip side of that is

973
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,280
they also know where the bodies
are buried.

974
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,800
Like they know, they know the
flow of girls in and out of tour

975
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,120
buses.
They know, you know, they know

976
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,080
the parties, they know all of
the stuff that's going on.

977
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,080
So that's the downside of it is
you can't lie.

978
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,240
Like, you can't, you can't bluff
and say, no, no, you know, I

979
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:31,040
just went to sleep at 9:30 and,
you know, read a book, you know,

980
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,040
like they know that's probably
not the case.

981
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,680
But Kelly's also the cool one
that would You know, when you're

982
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,600
at the strip club at 2:00 in the
morning with all the roadies in

983
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,160
the band, she's going in the
back and dragging them all out.

984
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:43,920
Oh, that's funny.
That's funny.

985
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:49,680
Yeah, yeah, I mean, at first
with my ex-wife, it was kind of

986
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,280
like that, 'cause she was in the
music business, I was in the

987
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,960
lighting business, you know,
similar industries, similar

988
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,760
people, similar, you know,
debauchery.

989
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,880
And neither one of us complained
about what the other one was

990
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,800
doing or, or there was number
mistrust or there was number no,

991
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,160
and there was number breached
trust either, you know, and, and

992
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,200
and then it just shifted and it
was like, you know, you're going

993
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,400
to do what you're going, where
you're going to Las Vegas again,

994
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,600
you're out till 2:00 in the
morning, what are you doing?

995
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,720
You know, and I don't know,
maybe that's age.

996
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,160
Maybe that's just when you hit a
certain point in the marriage

997
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,040
where it starts getting a bit
iffy.

998
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,960
But you know, one of the things
about this lifestyle industry is

999
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:37,080
that I think you either love it
or you're going to hate it.

1000
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,080
And you know, it's it's like,
again, using Cosmo as an

1001
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:45,960
example, like the over poster,
you know, Facebook spammer that

1002
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,880
he is the one thing you can see
through all of his posts.

1003
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,960
And I love his post by the way,
so I'm not putting it down, but

1004
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:57,480
but he does post a lot.
And the one, the one thing you

1005
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,160
can see though, is that he
friggin loves it.

1006
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,200
He loves the lifestyle.
He loves every bit of it.

1007
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,080
He loves.
And that guy lives every day.

1008
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,760
Like he, you know, if he's got a
day off and he's in Austria,

1009
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,400
he's going to go out and see
stuff.

1010
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,360
He's not going to sit in his
hotel room and watch Netflix.

1011
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:15,800
He's going to go out and see
stuff.

1012
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,320
And I love that.
Like I love people who say I'm

1013
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,160
the luckiest man on earth and
and I get to do this.

1014
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,600
Not I have to do this.
I get to do this.

1015
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,040
I get to do this and I have
gotten to do it for pushing up

1016
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,960
on 40 years, like 383738 years
now, right?

1017
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,040
Like all of the world, we're all
about the same.

1018
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:38,800
It does.
But you know what?

1019
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,360
All those experiences, and I
will say going around the world

1020
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,360
with Kelly was great.
Yeah, on those days off, yeah, I

1021
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,680
got somebody to go hang out.
Yeah, no kidding.

1022
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:49,480
That's.
Perfect.

1023
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,280
And do that stuff.
And it's just been great.

1024
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,280
Our kids were brought up in the
business, in and around the

1025
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:57,960
business.
There are no strangers to tour

1026
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,800
buses, you know.
But how did that work?

1027
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,280
If you were both touring and you
had kids, like how does that

1028
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,040
work So.
Good segue.

1029
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:15,320
Come around 97, Aiden.
Aiden was almost 2 at that time.

1030
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,520
And I was getting a little tired
of the being away, right?

1031
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,280
Also hearing all the stories
from all your peers about, you

1032
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,560
know, their kids growing up
without them and they're not

1033
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,920
being at home and all this, all
the stuff they miss.

1034
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,320
And I was like, that's heavy for
me.

1035
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:43,680
So there was an opportunity that
came through through Turner

1036
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,120
Broadcasting.
Got it.

1037
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,040
It's so you're trying to put
this story in order.

1038
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,840
It's hard.
A lot of things have happened.

1039
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,640
We'll we'll go into more detail
about it, but the the synopsis

1040
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,160
is I have an opportunity to
start my own lighting company,

1041
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,440
yeah, here in Atlanta, a very.
Was that East Coast lighting

1042
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:04,680
east?
Coast lighting and.

1043
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,680
Design, Yeah, because I remember
that company.

1044
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,680
I think we've done business over
the years and stuff, yeah.

1045
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:14,480
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
And so Kristinati Donut, another

1046
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:19,800
Roth alum who has had a stellar
career as well.

1047
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:28,280
Donut really helped me and gave
me the like the comfort, like

1048
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:29,640
you're not doing it alone,
right?

1049
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:38,600
And so we were able to acquire
like a bit of equipment and

1050
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,040
really kind of start this thing.
And as this whole thing happened

1051
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:50,520
in like a 72 hour period, 96
hour period, Robert was RA came

1052
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,800
to the rescue.
I called Robert and I was like,

1053
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,840
I may have just stepped on a
landmine here, right?

1054
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:03,800
Like, I don't know what to do.
And he he sourced me a

1055
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,760
warehouse.
So what was the challenge

1056
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,480
though?
What what made you call Robert?

1057
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,840
What was the?
So I had I had been working down

1058
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:17,240
at Turner Studios with some rock
guys, John Halden, Thomas

1059
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,960
Branch, Tony Newman.
Halden was the guy who kind of

1060
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,520
opened the door for everybody
down there at Turner because

1061
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,920
they were a little fed up with
the union, quite frankly.

1062
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,000
And John didn't want to tour
much anymore.

1063
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,920
So he started doing TV.
So he was pretty in pretty heavy

1064
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,560
down there.
And he says, hey, I know these

1065
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,800
Turner, because they only had
the one studio at the time, they

1066
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,280
would they would have NBA on
TNT, which do the West Coast

1067
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,160
games.
And so they would have to turn

1068
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:49,280
around between like, 2:00 AM and
8:00 AM to do Turner Classic

1069
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:55,600
Movies that next morning in the
same room, in the same studio.

1070
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,480
And so the union, these guys
weren't getting to shoot until

1071
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,040
like, noon or after lunch.
And it was just a bad situation.

1072
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:08,880
And John convinced the powers
that be to let him bring a bunch

1073
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,960
of roadies in and a bunch of
people who didn't know shit

1074
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,560
about TV lighting.
And we did it in six hours the

1075
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,920
first couple of days and then we
had it down to like 3 hours

1076
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,320
after.
That Wow.

1077
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,640
Yeah, right.
That's cool, yeah.

1078
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:28,720
And so that's how a lot of Doug
Lloyd, Thomas Branch, Tony

1079
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,520
Newman, John Halden, a lot of
these guys started gravitating

1080
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,880
down toward Turner Studios and
getting a lot of work down

1081
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,640
there, right?
And John opened the door for us

1082
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,360
and for them.
I had mentioned to the guys that

1083
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,320
I had wanted to kind of probably
start my own thing so I could

1084
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,960
stay home more, control my
schedule a little bit more.

1085
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,120
John hooks me up with one of the
higher ups there at Turner.

1086
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:58,000
And this was kind of when WCW
was being bought by WWE.

1087
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,400
And so all that was going away,
which was a huge Roth account,

1088
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:06,040
all those pay per views that we
used to light, you know, 2500

1089
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,840
park hands flying dimmer
beaches, all that crazy shit.

1090
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:15,120
Anyway, we ended up acquiring a
lot of that gear.

1091
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,960
And so that's how it started.
So now I've got all this

1092
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,120
equipment and I'm like, where
the hell do I put all this?

1093
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,000
I think a bunch of that gear
came from Frank Santoro in

1094
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,720
Orlando, didn't it?
It did.

1095
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,800
Fla Productions, yeah.
Fla Yeah.

1096
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:32,880
A.
Lot of that.

1097
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,680
There was some of that in there,
that guy.

1098
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,640
Saw some old.
Bash boxes some.

1099
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,640
Bray.
Boxes Frank did so well 'cause

1100
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:44,480
he, you know, he, he made a lot
of money off of Fla for a number

1101
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,280
of or off of WCW for a number of
years as their lighting

1102
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,320
contractor or whatever.
Then he sold them his entire

1103
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:55,680
inventory and just worked for
them as production manager,

1104
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,880
lighting designer, whatever he
was.

1105
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,600
Yep.
I mean, it was just such a great

1106
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,680
gig for him.
He made so much money from that.

1107
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,440
He was, yeah.
I'm glad for him.

1108
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,680
I always like Frank, you know,
he got along with him.

1109
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,000
Frank was a good dude.
He reminded me of Frank Zappa

1110
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,800
though.
It was always so interesting.

1111
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,680
Yeah, I mean just real laid back
attitude.

1112
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,480
But the way he talked, yeah,
like that cadence, that cadence

1113
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,520
that Frank Zappa had.
Yeah, the turtle had a lot of

1114
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,160
that that.
One a similar mark, you know,

1115
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,880
with the facial hair and the
long hair and stuff like he the

1116
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,120
manners little sat down stuff.
Yeah, I, I really like Frank.

1117
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,600
I haven't heard, I haven't
spoken to him in a few years,

1118
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,400
like probably five years now.
Last I spoke to him, he had a a

1119
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:42,440
Harley-Davidson detailing
company and had created all

1120
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,800
these products.
Wow, Harley-Davidson licensed to

1121
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,040
clean your bike and stuff.
And he was doing really well

1122
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:52,840
with that too.
But I think he was going through

1123
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,400
divorce at the time, as I
recall, and that was killing

1124
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,160
him.
And yeah, so anyways, sorry,

1125
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,200
back to your story.
There's all these.

1126
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,400
Sidebars that.
Yeah, because he reminds me of

1127
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:04,280
things.
I know.

1128
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,880
It's so awesome.
Yeah.

1129
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:10,400
So I called, I called Robert and
I'm like, hey, I've got this

1130
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:15,040
thing and I need some help.
And he's like, thanks, give me

1131
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,200
20 minutes, I'll call you back.
So you had a you had a bunch of

1132
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:22,040
gear that you'd acquired and you
had no shop?

1133
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:23,440
Yeah.
Nowhere to put it.

1134
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,880
And so where was?
It was it still sitting with the

1135
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,880
people you bought it from or was
it in a truck?

1136
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,040
Or it was still, it was still in
like 3 or 4 various locations,

1137
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,800
right?
And so Robert calls me back and

1138
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,080
he goes, I got you squared away.
It's going to be like 600 a

1139
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:40,760
month.
Here's your new address.

1140
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,840
And I'm like, so I drive a
doughnut and I drive over there

1141
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:46,400
in the car, go check it out.
Sure.

1142
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,520
It's, it's a one day, you know,
just a little one day shop.

1143
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,880
So we went and rented some 20
fours and went and start picking

1144
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,080
this stuff up over the next
couple of days and just got it

1145
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,160
all in there and then spent like
2 weeks sorting it out.

1146
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:05,320
And then we're just fortunate
enough, you know, just all these

1147
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:10,680
great people that I have had in
my life.

1148
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,800
Right?
Yeah, Jin St. was the

1149
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,960
production, Dave Jin St. and
Dave Scruggs and Kerry Glenn,

1150
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,800
and we're all kind of running
the Roxy Theater here in

1151
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:21,400
Atlanta.
Yeah.

1152
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:28,480
So was able to convince them to
let us put a house rig in there

1153
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:34,720
under a contract, right.
And from that spawned a contract

1154
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,800
for the Tabernacle for a period
of years.

1155
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,120
Nice.
And did a lot of stuff at

1156
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,000
Chastain.
Was that your idea to do that or

1157
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,800
did it just happen by accident
it?

1158
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:51,200
Just kind of happened.
Because what a great way to

1159
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,120
cover your payroll, you know
what I mean?

1160
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:57,720
Like to have recurring weekly
revenue that you don't have to

1161
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,960
go fight for every week, right?
And you know that you've got at

1162
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,840
least 10 grand a month coming in
or whatever it is, right?

1163
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,920
Yeah, That's that's such a good
idea.

1164
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,160
You're providing the LDS, you're
doing the services on the weekly

1165
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,280
or every other week.
It's the Roxy thing.

1166
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:18,160
Started because I had a buddy
come through on a tour and

1167
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:22,360
needed like a, a support package
and we just showed up.

1168
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:24,200
Donut and I showed up, did it
ourselves.

1169
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,440
And like our fear was in good
shape.

1170
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,160
You know, we were all pro about
it.

1171
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,800
A new dinosaur Dave, who was the
LD down there at the time.

1172
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,120
And he hooked me up with Scruggs
and, and Jen and, and Carrie.

1173
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,840
And they were like, Oh yeah, we
like, we like what you, you

1174
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,040
know, we like you, we like what
you guys do.

1175
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,800
And I said, well, hey, well,
let's put something together.

1176
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,640
And we made that happen.
It took about six months to get

1177
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,480
the deal.
Well, it was probably really

1178
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,400
logical for them too, because
they probably looked at A, the

1179
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,600
the pain in the ass that it was
to keep getting different gear

1180
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,560
from different places.
B They probably looked at their

1181
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,920
average and went, OK, we're
paying normally 3 grand a week

1182
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,680
and if we can get him to do it
for 2500 a week and it just

1183
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,800
stays in here the whole time, it
makes a lot of sense to us.

1184
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:10,960
You know, and we gave him some
bang for the buck, right?

1185
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:15,280
We gave him some bang for the
buck and, and so those that

1186
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,640
worked.
And so that's how I was able to

1187
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,960
be home more when Aiden was
young.

1188
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:25,560
And then we had Kieran, our
youngest son, who actually just

1189
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,880
came into town.
Today, these are not.

1190
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:29,440
Millennial names at all, by the
way.

1191
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,560
Kelly Keeridge.
Kelly Patridge.

1192
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:33,840
OK, there you go.
Yeah.

1193
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,320
So, yeah, so I was able to kind
of control the schedule.

1194
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,240
Now we had opportunities to grow
the business, but that wasn't

1195
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,880
the plan.
The plan for the company was a,

1196
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,120
I didn't want to grow it into an
RA Roth or a whatever, right?

1197
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:57,240
I just wanted to maintain
controlling my schedule for a

1198
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,400
certain amount of time.
And then when we felt like the

1199
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,960
kids were old enough, sold the
company off, which was almost 10

1200
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:07,400
years, sold the company to
Magnum, to Eric Magnuson, which

1201
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,680
was great.
Another character lesson

1202
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,000
happened.
Six months later, Eric passed

1203
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:21,520
away and he turned the the
company was now in Todd's hands,

1204
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,160
his stepson, who has done an
amazing job with that.

1205
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:30,000
I did not handle that whole
thing very well.

1206
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,520
So hence another character
development lesson.

1207
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:39,960
I was not, I did not handle that
situation very well and Needless

1208
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:50,240
to say, ended up parting ways
with them and obviously has done

1209
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:56,439
an amazing job right and.
Sometimes you know what?

1210
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,760
It's not anyone party's fault.
Sometimes it's chemistry,

1211
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,359
sometimes it's.
Whatever, this was 100% my

1212
01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:05,800
fault.
I was trying to, I was trying to

1213
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,600
rescue a little bit there.
You know it's OK.

1214
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,319
I'm trying to rescue you.
Then I went to work for one of

1215
01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:16,040
my clients who ended up doing a
lot of corporate work.

1216
01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:19,600
So that's what got me into the
corporate arena was going to

1217
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,920
stage and directions interesting
and working the working the

1218
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,920
corporate thing.
And, and that was right when

1219
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:29,880
corporate was starting to really
mimic Rock'n'roll like they

1220
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,960
wanted.
Bigger shows, yeah, They wanted

1221
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,960
these big rock.
Show looking things, yeah, yeah

1222
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,520
and so.
Well, didn't a lot of that start

1223
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:45,040
with the the E3?
Like the game Conference, The

1224
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,479
big game trade show, E3.
What we used to have here, was

1225
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,160
it E3?
Yeah, E3.

1226
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:51,640
Was the big one.
Yeah, yeah.

1227
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,200
The Super show.
Super show, Yeah, yeah.

1228
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:58,040
So which used to come here in
Atlanta, and Atlanta just

1229
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:00,440
doesn't have bupkis now?
Yeah.

1230
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,360
Yeah, cornhole championships,
you know.

1231
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,400
Well, you know, it's so hard to
keep up with the Joneses when it

1232
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,440
comes to these convention
centers and stuff because

1233
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,800
everyone keeps demanding more,
more, more, more, more, you

1234
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:14,760
know?
And so Orlando had to build a

1235
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,400
whole new convention facility or
lots of them.

1236
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,560
Vegas obviously keeps building.
You know, it's crazy.

1237
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,160
It's like some of the biggest
conventions, you either have the

1238
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:29,160
facilities for them or they they
go to Las Vegas, period, you

1239
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:36,960
know, or Chicago or New York.
But yeah, so as you grew bigger

1240
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:43,880
into the the industrial thing,
the corporate thing, you

1241
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,320
eventually made your way into
world stage, right?

1242
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:51,360
Eventually made my way into
world stage which was an epic

1243
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,160
eye opening moment.
Right.

1244
01:10:53,160 --> 01:11:00,920
Like I'm working with people who
I consider amazing and they.

1245
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,200
Are.
Yeah, they are, but.

1246
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:08,560
World Stage exposed me to a
completely different level of

1247
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,680
production.
Production, product development,

1248
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:19,520
execution, logistics, labor, how
you manage labor.

1249
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:28,440
It really opened my eyes to a a
different level right on the

1250
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:31,200
corporate side than I had.
Just because of the scale of it

1251
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,280
or or did they do something?
Share differently the sheer size

1252
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,280
of these events.
Yeah, incredible, right?

1253
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:37,880
Yeah.
They were doing like Google size

1254
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,360
events and stuff, Yeah.
Yeah.

1255
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:48,840
So it's, yeah, it was and and
the level of technician that

1256
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,160
you're dealing with, the level
of engineer that you're dealing

1257
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:55,680
with was was eye opening and
amazing.

1258
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,280
Well, the quality and size of
the gear and stuff like that,

1259
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,720
like the equipment lists
thousands and.

1260
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,760
Thousands of panels of custom
LED, you know, Yeah.

1261
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:09,320
Yeah, crazy.
So yeah, just completely nuts.

1262
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:15,760
Just the people that I got to
meet and work with and do shows

1263
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:20,600
with have just been incredible.
Partnered up with a few of those

1264
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:21,920
guys now on a couple.
Of yeah, yeah.

1265
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,280
And I want to get to that too.
But before we get there, I

1266
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:27,680
wanted to ask it.
So you were you there when it

1267
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,520
crashed, Rock?
No.

1268
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,240
You were around a lot of
crashes, weren't you?

1269
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:35,400
No.
World Stage.

1270
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:40,760
Yes.
So let me skip back one first.

1271
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,120
I'm going to just say something
out here and I'm just going to

1272
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:45,480
put it out there and it's going
to be what it is.

1273
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:50,800
Cool.
The entire landscape of touring

1274
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:56,240
would look completely different
in North America right now if

1275
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,360
the accountant hadn't stolen all
the money from Robert.

1276
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,520
Interesting.
I don't even know that I've ever

1277
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,600
heard that story.
So I'm.

1278
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:07,600
Well.
I won't I won't go into details,

1279
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,400
so let's just that's fine to say
that somebody going to ask him

1280
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,320
in the cookie jar.
You know, I'm sure I've had that

1281
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:19,840
conversation with Robert now.
At the height of Roberts, you

1282
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:23,920
know, at the height of RE Roth,
we had RE Roth source point

1283
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,880
design, night moves transfer.
We had the design, we had the

1284
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,360
gear in the execution and we had
the transportation.

1285
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:35,800
We were doing 75% of all the
things shows dude.

1286
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:36,920
We.
Were doing all the.

1287
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:38,360
Tours big.
It was big.

1288
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,280
Right.
It was massive and it was

1289
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:43,720
growing, and even with the whole
Cinderella thing falling apart

1290
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,640
and all that, that we still took
that gear and put it right out

1291
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,800
on other stuff.
Yeah, we had other things to do.

1292
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:57,200
If if that hadn't happened, the
landscape of North American

1293
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,560
touring would would look so
completely different than.

1294
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,440
It's so true.
Well, I mean, there's so many

1295
01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:05,440
different events like that that
if that hadn't happened, this

1296
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:08,640
wouldn't happened and all of
those different types of things.

1297
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:13,480
And but yeah, I don't know that
I heard exactly that one.

1298
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:17,280
I don't remember, you know,
because a lot of the times when

1299
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:21,920
I had in depth talks with Robert
was well before this podcast and

1300
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,840
both he and I were sitting at a
bar with frickin martinis in our

1301
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,960
hands or whatever.
And you know, Robert, the whole

1302
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:31,000
conversation with Robert's eyes
closed the whole time, you know,

1303
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,800
talking to me, you know, like I,
I had so many conversations with

1304
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,600
Robert when I'm positive he was
asleep and just answering

1305
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,720
anyways, you know?
He was a great teacher.

1306
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,640
He knows more about lighting
than everybody else will ever

1307
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,040
forget.
Well, and guess.

1308
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,280
What?
He remembers most of it today

1309
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,600
and he's almost 70.
I think he's 70 this year.

1310
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:56,240
And he remembers most like my
memories shot.

1311
01:14:56,240 --> 01:15:00,320
And I've never drank or done as
much of the bad stuff as as

1312
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,000
Robert and as most of you have
in the industry, right?

1313
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,600
Like I'm, I'm a wimp compared to
most of you because I never

1314
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,360
toured.
Like I never lived that

1315
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,560
lifestyle.
I toured in a band for a while,

1316
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,400
but I never toured for a band or
with a band.

1317
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:19,320
And, but I still can't remember
so many things even from 20-30

1318
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,640
years ago, let alone, you know,
the very beginning of my career.

1319
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,560
So I always appreciate it when
guys like you and and certainly

1320
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,760
like Robert's memory is
photographic in some, in some

1321
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,720
cases, you know, yeah.
He's a wealth of knowledge.

1322
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:38,640
He's he was a great teacher.
He was a great supporter.

1323
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:45,200
We gave him 100%.
And I will say post, post my

1324
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:47,520
time working for him, he gave me
100%.

1325
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,400
Yeah.
He helped us out at East Coast

1326
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,840
lighting so much.
Some of these small, some of

1327
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,600
these smaller tours he didn't
want to deal with.

1328
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,320
Yeah, he would.
He would say, hey, call these

1329
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:59,040
guys, they'll go.
They'll help you out, you know,

1330
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:00,880
and it's.
Always great, you know, when

1331
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:05,000
somebody like Forwall or PRG or
whoever named the Borg, you

1332
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,640
know, as people love to call
them, but when when they come in

1333
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:12,680
and rescue companies by
purchasing them or whatever, you

1334
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:14,880
know, it looks beautiful on the
surface and stuff.

1335
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:19,240
But the thing that I always find
that's sad and and you know, I

1336
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,480
love Jerry Harris.
I'm good friends with Jerry

1337
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:24,080
Harris, so I'm not knocking
anything that he's done or or

1338
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:27,320
that four wall have done.
You know, there's there's loose

1339
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,400
capital laying around.
People are going to buy up

1340
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:32,600
companies with it.
And if your company shows some

1341
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,080
glimmer of life in it that we
could build upon, you're going

1342
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,720
to be bought, right?
And there's nothing wrong with

1343
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:42,640
that.
But when you lose the attitude

1344
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:47,440
and you lose the character and
you lose what made RA Roth great

1345
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:50,520
to begin with.
And, you know, production arts,

1346
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:52,400
like, nobody remembers
production arts.

1347
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,520
I do.
You know, I remember sitting at

1348
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:59,760
design tables with with Steve
Terry and John McGraw and OK,

1349
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,960
what do we need to do to get
some product on to this design,

1350
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:05,960
you know, and trying to work a
way to sell them some gear or

1351
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:07,720
whatever.
They were the gold standard

1352
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,200
production arts.
And so when you buy it in a year

1353
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:14,200
later, the brand disappears.
That sucks.

1354
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,880
It just really, but it's hard to
buy all these companies and and

1355
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:19,480
continue to promote all the
brands.

1356
01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:22,520
Like they even just tried
keeping light and sound design

1357
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,680
as the touring division at PRG
and it was just confusing.

1358
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,600
So finally they just had to drop
all these brand names, like

1359
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:33,040
production arts was going to be
the theatrical division, and

1360
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,400
light and sound design was going
to be the touring division.

1361
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,720
It didn't work, you know it.
So they just had to drop it all

1362
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:42,200
and become PRG, you know?
Yeah, but it's always been in

1363
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:44,480
the 80s that was happening, you
know, with a. 1.

1364
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:46,800
And task.
And electric back and all that,

1365
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:50,840
all that stuff coming and going,
yeah.

1366
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,560
That's how.
I I had met Peter Clark.

1367
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:59,320
Super Europe, yeah.
Super Mick.

1368
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,040
I remember people bloody.
Legend, right?

1369
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:02,760
Yeah.
Bloody legend, that guy.

1370
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:04,120
Funny as hell too.
I.

1371
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:07,040
Had some great experiences with
all those guys.

1372
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:08,880
That's where I.
Met Dizzy Gospel.

1373
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,800
That's where I met Rob Steele.
Met Rob Steele before he came

1374
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,640
over, before he came to the
stage.

1375
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:15,520
Wow.
Yeah, I think I met him right

1376
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,160
after a lot.
Yeah, hanging out over there a

1377
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:19,960
lot and doing a lot of work over
there.

1378
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,360
Yeah, but but World St. stuff
goes.

1379
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,280
Oh yeah, dude, that guy was a
trip.

1380
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,360
Yeah.
Is he still around?

1381
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:32,000
Do you know, like I, I, I that's
a guy I'd love to have on this

1382
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,560
podcast, by the way.
So if anybody knows Peter Clark

1383
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,120
and has contact details for him,
let me know if he's, if he's

1384
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,840
still around.
I've had Dizzy on a couple

1385
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:42,360
times.
He was just on recently, like

1386
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:44,880
maybe a month ago.
Get a hold of him.

1387
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:45,680
Dizzy might.
Yeah.

1388
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,520
I should ask Dizzy.
So, Sarah, if you're listening

1389
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,280
and not.
Napping if if Sarah's listening

1390
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,720
and not napping right now,
please reach out to Dizzy and

1391
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,760
get information to get Peter
Clark.

1392
01:18:58,000 --> 01:18:59,320
Get Peter Clark.
Oh hell yeah.

1393
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,440
Yeah, the other one that we're
trying to.

1394
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,200
To get in touch.
With is is Chipmunk.

1395
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:07,720
You know, I'd love to get
Chipmunk on, on the on the

1396
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,400
podcast.
He last I heard he's in

1397
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:11,960
Australia.
He's he's.

1398
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:16,920
Retired in Australia and but I
don't know if that's still the

1399
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,240
case or whatever, but at some
point Richard Kadina, who, who

1400
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:22,000
follows the podcast pretty
closely.

1401
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:26,040
I don't know if you know Rich,
but Richard's pretty close.

1402
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:29,160
Richard's pretty close.
Yeah, he's pretty close with

1403
01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:31,800
with Chip.
So we're trying to get him on.

1404
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,960
But Australia, shout out to Pip
Robinson and the boys you know

1405
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:35,400
there.
You go.

1406
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,080
There you go.
So back to.

1407
01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:40,760
Back to world stage.
So you were there when it went

1408
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:44,920
down and you know, yeah, I guess
some of the questions I have and

1409
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:46,000
I've.
Had most of these.

1410
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:50,160
Answered by, you know, some of
the people who were in very top

1411
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,000
management and stuff at the
company.

1412
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,560
But I mean, what was it like?
Like, did you know it was

1413
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,480
coming?
Were you looking around going,

1414
01:19:57,480 --> 01:20:00,520
hey, there's something wrong.
It just happened quick.

1415
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,520
Not at all.
So the plague hit.

1416
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,520
And it was like the middle of
March.

1417
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:08,720
I had like 3 shows going on.
I.

1418
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,400
Had flown from 1 show.
Down to Orlando to SAP, which

1419
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,760
cancelled, but then we ended up
taking the rig that we had down

1420
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,200
there for SAP and basically just
taking the ballroom down there

1421
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,960
at Marriott World and making a
giant studio out of it.

1422
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,680
Redesigned the LED with
everything we had on site.

1423
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:29,800
Set up a bunch of cameras, did
the.

1424
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,280
Thing so they ended up doing it.
As a as a webcam, that's

1425
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:38,240
basically right, which some
people had experienced in at

1426
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,120
that point, but not a lot.
You know, this is beginning

1427
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:43,600
second week of March of 2020.
Yeah.

1428
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,120
And that was a very new concept
at that.

1429
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,120
Point right?
I get that show.

1430
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:49,760
That show's under control.
Great.

1431
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,560
I need to go up to Nashville and
check on the boys up there.

1432
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:55,280
We have something going on at
Opryland.

1433
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,440
Get up there.
And I'm just.

1434
01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:00,640
In time to.
See Don Felder was the

1435
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:04,240
entertainment and so got to see
Felder and it was.

1436
01:21:04,440 --> 01:21:06,040
Awesome God, he.
Was rocked.

1437
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:09,280
He was so good that night.
Voice was great, playing was

1438
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,160
great, band was tight.
I'm just like.

1439
01:21:11,480 --> 01:21:13,520
Standing in the back of the room
with a couple of the other guys

1440
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:14,080
and I'm just.
Going.

1441
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:18,080
Yes, that's cool.
So the next.

1442
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:21,920
Morning.
I get.

1443
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,760
A call from my boss at World
Stage.

1444
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:31,760
And he's like, hey, we're.
Something's going on.

1445
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,040
We're not sure.
Stay by your phone.

1446
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:38,000
I'm like, OK, so my buddy Brian
Beck, who I got the can and the

1447
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:41,040
WE Mailer box from, we drive
back to Atlanta the next day.

1448
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,880
Your credit card's not bouncing
for gas or anything yet though,

1449
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:46,360
is it?
OK, good.

1450
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:49,680
And that was on a Thursday and
that Friday.

1451
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,080
Michael calls me and he says we
just laid off like 250 people,

1452
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:56,720
he said.
We're putting you on half salary

1453
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:00,200
for whatever month or two months
or whatever it was.

1454
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:03,960
And I'm like, OK, OK.
Because all all of a sudden, you

1455
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:05,480
know everybody's.
Calendars are just.

1456
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,080
Disappearing, all the shows are
cancelling everyone, all these

1457
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:11,920
mandates that are going out and
you just, everybody just

1458
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:15,960
cancelled.
And so we I sat there on, we

1459
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,240
would do our weekly meetings,
you know, a couple days a week,

1460
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:23,360
we would get online and and hang
out and talk about all the shit

1461
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:24,640
you should be doing.
But can.

1462
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,760
Yeah, yeah.
Or what can we try to do?

1463
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:29,680
Yeah.
What can we how can we spin up

1464
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:39,000
some virtual studios and at that
point they about 6-6 to 8 weeks.

1465
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:41,240
Into that the half.
Salary thing.

1466
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:43,880
I get a call and I'm saying I
told I'm being furloughed,

1467
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:46,920
you're being furloughed.
We're going to cover your, your

1468
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:50,560
half of the insurance so you
stay insured through this blah,

1469
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:51,880
blah, blah.
OK, great.

1470
01:22:55,040 --> 01:23:00,360
And then they internally, they
were still trying to spin up one

1471
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:03,000
in California and one in New
York, some of these virtual

1472
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:05,600
studios because we had all the
equipment, right?

1473
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:07,720
You've got all the LED, you've
got all the cameras, you've got

1474
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:08,640
all the.
Technology, yeah, You guys.

1475
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:10,800
Were well positioned to do
something all the people.

1476
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:12,920
That's 100% right.
Yeah.

1477
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:16,240
So they they started.
They got those set up and then

1478
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,120
started to do project product
development, software

1479
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,960
development for a lot of these
because there weren't a lot of

1480
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,360
streaming.
Platforms to use at.

1481
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,680
That time, right now, there's a
billion of them.

1482
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:29,520
But at the time.
There weren't that many.

1483
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:35,160
So the guys who were were left
there were holding it and that

1484
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:37,200
went on.
My furlough went on until like

1485
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:40,240
February of 21 when I finally
got a call and said, hey, we're

1486
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:43,760
just yeah, you're done.
Yeah, you're on your.

1487
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:45,640
Own there, tough guy.
The whole thing is pretty much

1488
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:49,600
done at that point, yeah.
Yeah, pretty much that that.

1489
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,440
Point it was, it wasn't.
Much longer before the the rest

1490
01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:54,800
of it.
Interesting.

1491
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:56,720
Yeah.
It's amazing though, like.

1492
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:00,120
You you'd think that was one
that's that's too big to fail,

1493
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:05,360
you know, But yeah, debt, debt
is a debt is a killer.

1494
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:11,880
Debt's a killer, I think.
We had a lot. 2020 was already

1495
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:15,200
going to be a banger.
Year and I'm pretty sure sales

1496
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:19,040
wise if you talk to the guys who
are running the sales teams, we

1497
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:24,120
were probably in Q1 alone, we
were already 30% over the

1498
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:27,080
previous year.
I mean, we just came out of the

1499
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:32,200
gates just storming like.
Like I could see.

1500
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:36,040
It adding. 15 to 20 million to
the bottom line over the course

1501
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:38,360
of the year, right?
Like you're just, you're just

1502
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:43,560
really making a huge, a huge
jump.

1503
01:24:44,440 --> 01:24:48,600
And I think they had invested in
the technology that was going to

1504
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:52,120
be needed to get that done.
I saw a lot of that CapEx went

1505
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:56,120
out at the first of the year and
so, you know there wasn't that

1506
01:24:56,120 --> 01:25:01,160
money hanging around.
I don't know any of the details

1507
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:02,000
of any of that.
Stuff.

1508
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,520
It'd be pure.
Speculation if I I mean usually

1509
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:10,560
usually when a company.
That size crashes its debt, you

1510
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:14,400
know, and I mean some of the
companies in our industry and I

1511
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,760
won't mention any names, but
some of these companies are

1512
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:21,920
operating on between, you know,
4500 million and, and a billion

1513
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:26,680
dollars in debt.
And so when shit goes bad like

1514
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:31,680
it did in 2009 or 8 or whatever
and it did again and during

1515
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:36,320
COVID and you're carrying that
debt load, something has to

1516
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:38,760
give.
And usually you either find a

1517
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:42,080
buyer with very deep and patient
pockets.

1518
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:44,960
So in other words, they'll put
all that capital, the billion

1519
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,560
dollars that you need, they'll
put that in play and be very

1520
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:52,400
patient waiting until Covid's
over and and, you know, not

1521
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:57,840
pulling any triggers to implode
the company along the way or or,

1522
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,200
you know, something has to give
like it.

1523
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,240
It's just, you know, banks
aren't going to sit patiently

1524
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,920
usually like banks are.
Banks will weigh A versus B.

1525
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,440
And if A is a better choice, you
know they launch.

1526
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:13,200
You know, the way it was
explained to me is and.

1527
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:15,760
This makes a lot of sense.
If you and me go to the bank and

1528
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:19,440
we borrow $10 million, if we
don't pay it back, we're in deep

1529
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:22,240
duty.
If we can borrow $100 million,

1530
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:23,760
that's their problem.
Don't pay it back.

1531
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:27,280
The bank, yeah, exactly.
They will restructure whatever.

1532
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:28,840
They need to restructure
they'll.

1533
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:30,880
Write off.
They'll do whatever they do.

1534
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:32,280
Yeah.
And that's how those.

1535
01:26:32,440 --> 01:26:33,880
Larger.
Organizations.

1536
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:37,120
I know a very particular set of
talks that.

1537
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:41,080
Happened and let's call it, you
know, a couple $100 million and

1538
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,880
they sat at the table with the
bank and they said, you know,

1539
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:47,280
the bank was putting pressure on
them and they said, look, if you

1540
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,040
don't pull this pressure off of
me, I'm going to bankrupt this

1541
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,000
fucking company and then you're
screwed.

1542
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:57,640
And so, you know, the bank had
to basically back off or they

1543
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,840
were going to hit the nuclear
button, you know, and at that

1544
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:05,400
point it was over.
So, you know, it's a challenge

1545
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:08,440
in our industry because there is
a lot of capital being injected

1546
01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:11,400
into our industry and there's a
lot of debt being taken on by

1547
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:16,000
our industry.
And that's going to become even

1548
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,920
more prevalent, I think, as
interest rates drop and there's

1549
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:22,000
more money being put in play and
all of those things.

1550
01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:25,120
And you know, it's great as long
as things are going as they are

1551
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:29,280
today, but right, you know, when
things aren't going as well as

1552
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,400
they are today and the pressure
comes back again.

1553
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:35,680
And banks, like I heard, you
know, banks were pulling notes

1554
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,840
on people that had their houses
on the line, small businesses in

1555
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:41,240
our industry.
And, and I know several, many of

1556
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:44,000
them because I was consulting
with many of these companies,

1557
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,320
helping them, you know, to stay
in business as much as I could

1558
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:49,840
just because I know a lot of
people and I know where all the

1559
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:51,800
bodies are buried in the
industry and stuff.

1560
01:27:52,440 --> 01:27:56,480
And, you know, it was always, it
wasn't because they were missing

1561
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:59,000
loan payments.
Usually it was because of

1562
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:02,080
covenants built into these
agreements that they had with

1563
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:06,040
their banks.
And it's these covenants are

1564
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,320
usually the leverage that the
bank pulls out to, to put you

1565
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:13,440
out of business or to force you
to start selling off all your

1566
01:28:13,440 --> 01:28:16,640
gear or whatever.
And they're the 1st and only

1567
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:18,840
ones that get paid.
Nobody else gets paid in those

1568
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,080
situations.
So it's brutal.

1569
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:23,400
It's just brutal.
It is, it is.

1570
01:28:23,480 --> 01:28:27,680
And it was such a shame, man.
I mean just the.

1571
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:29,880
It was funny.
We used to joke.

1572
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:31,400
Because I worked out of the
Nashville.

1573
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:33,480
Nashville is a sales office,
right?

1574
01:28:33,480 --> 01:28:35,560
And so there's like four of us
up there.

1575
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,360
And so we called ourselves the
Middle Coast because you always

1576
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:42,200
got the New York guys, you know,
the old sharp Weisberg guys,

1577
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:45,080
right?
West Coast guys and the West

1578
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:46,680
Coast guys, The old video.
Labs guys, I.

1579
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:50,200
Love working with both.
Teams.

1580
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,680
Right, it's 2.
Completely different business.

1581
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:54,200
Models, right?
Yeah, definitely.

1582
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,080
Like, literally, we called
ourselves the Middle Coast.

1583
01:28:57,400 --> 01:28:58,520
We.
Called ourselves the Middle

1584
01:28:58,720 --> 01:28:59,800
Coast, Yeah.
That's funny.

1585
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:02,680
Yeah, if it were an.
Election, you'd be the

1586
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,800
independence.
Yeah, yeah, I miss it.

1587
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:08,880
It's it's awful.
Man, we had such.

1588
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,680
Like I said, I got.
Exposed to a lot of really great

1589
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:19,880
people technology processes and
procedures it just all Oh yeah,

1590
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,360
it's that's the cool thing
about.

1591
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:24,360
Getting involved in.
When you're a small.

1592
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:28,600
Business guy like you were and,
and I am when you get exposed to

1593
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,520
some of those big companies, I
think you learn a lot about

1594
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:36,520
methods and processes that you
would never get access to as a

1595
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,800
small business, some of which
are really brilliant and some of

1596
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:43,640
which you're going man, why are
these people doing this stuff?

1597
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:47,200
They're losing so much money
because as a small business, you

1598
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:51,320
operate, you know, and you and I
both come from racing and, and,

1599
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:52,960
you know, it's like a.
It's like a.

1600
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,880
A race car compared to a school
bus driving on the same

1601
01:29:56,880 --> 01:29:59,680
racetrack, you know things
happen a lot more quickly in the

1602
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:01,080
race car.
So you can go out of business

1603
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:03,800
more quickly, you can get things
done more quickly.

1604
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:08,440
And as a result, you, you just
have to be smarter with how

1605
01:30:08,440 --> 01:30:11,120
you're using that power, how
you're laying the power down on

1606
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:13,600
the track, right?
Versus a school bus, you don't

1607
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,240
have much power and it takes
forever to turn the thing and

1608
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:18,280
all of that.
So you're, you're moving more

1609
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:24,360
slowly and gracefully perhaps,
but much less efficiently and

1610
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:28,200
things don't happen as quickly.
So, you know, it's a very slow

1611
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:32,520
burning death as opposed to
boom, you're dead, you know, and

1612
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:36,400
but anyways, so, but it's
interesting because you met your

1613
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,480
future business partners, right?
Yeah.

1614
01:30:39,480 --> 01:30:43,080
So.
I have a couple of different

1615
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:47,000
projects going on right now.
My day job, one of my day jobs

1616
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:49,000
is I have Source Point
Collective.

1617
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:50,720
And yes, I did call Robert and
ask.

1618
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:55,960
That's myself, Bob Foley, Josh
Johnson and John Orchard.

1619
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:58,880
I'm sure you know Orca from the
old days.

1620
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:02,160
And so we do technical direction
and project management.

1621
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:04,560
We do some production design
still.

1622
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:09,120
John is Orchard is really active
in doing a lot of the production

1623
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:12,000
design stuff that we're doing.
But mostly we're doing show

1624
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,720
management kind of things,
technical direction and stuff

1625
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,000
like that.
And then so who are your clients

1626
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:21,840
for that business so?
For that agencies, right?

1627
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:27,240
So agencies call us.
I'm working.

1628
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:31,080
For invent this.
Next week INVNT has one of the

1629
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:35,280
TDs on a show that they have
coming up here out in Las Vegas.

1630
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:39,040
So we'll be out doing that
starting tomorrow.

1631
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:43,360
But we have so agencies call us
up to come in and help them

1632
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:48,040
project manage cool.
We and producers call us and and

1633
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:51,240
we do have two clients that we
work directly with that we've

1634
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:54,240
had guys that work with us bring
to the table.

1635
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:57,640
So we kind of almost act as
producers for some of those

1636
01:31:57,760 --> 01:31:58,760
smaller shows.
Is that a?

1637
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,720
Is that like a real company or
is that?

1638
01:32:02,440 --> 01:32:04,960
Like a collective.
It's it.

1639
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:06,440
Well, it is.
I mean it's.

1640
01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:08,360
All under one.
Umbrella, The four of us are

1641
01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:11,400
equal partners in the company
and and we take on all the

1642
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:13,400
responsibilities and the task as
a group.

1643
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:16,960
OK, which which is actually kind
of a selling point for that

1644
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,320
because now you have multiple
threads of eyes on your project

1645
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,400
all the time, of course.
Yeah, you know, and so we're

1646
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:22,920
always working together.
To.

1647
01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:25,680
To streamline those processes
and stuff like that, Yeah.

1648
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,360
The downside is you have to get
along, you know which.

1649
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,920
Could be looked at as the
upside, but yeah, Jo and I have

1650
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:34,720
Orchard and I have known each
other for 30.

1651
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:39,240
Plus years.
And then, yeah, Bob, Mark

1652
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:41,000
Rabinowitz hooked me up with
Foley.

1653
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,120
I needed an LB for something.
And I.

1654
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:46,880
Called Mark because I was down.
In Orlando, you know, Mark, of

1655
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,960
course Mark, you know, and of
course Mark is like Christopher

1656
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:53,600
Walken.
If you say something that Mark

1657
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,520
said, you have to say it the way
he said it.

1658
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:58,840
So it's like, hey, you picks a
shirt, call this guy.

1659
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,400
Bob Foley, he's a good guy.
You'll love him.

1660
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:04,120
So I called Foley and then I met
Josh through Foley.

1661
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,160
And so we've all been.
Together for 20 plus years, a

1662
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:09,680
couple of decades and then and
then the other other.

1663
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:11,280
Stuff we have going on is we
have.

1664
01:33:11,480 --> 01:33:16,360
Future FUTR and Better BETR and
these are two product

1665
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:21,080
development companies that I'm
partnering with Josh Perlman and

1666
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:26,120
Jason Mullaney from World Stage
and so we are.

1667
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:29,040
The better.
Project is the one that's kind

1668
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:32,160
of got all the the heat right
now and what we've done is we've

1669
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:40,200
just really come up with a very
slick modern using some AI

1670
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:41,920
driven.
Capabilities.

1671
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:44,760
Break out in the box, right?
More or less.

1672
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:48,440
Except our break out in the box
isn't the size of a refrigerator

1673
01:33:48,440 --> 01:33:53,240
or a lectern or A20 space rack.
It's the size of A4 space rack

1674
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:57,600
unit.
So we are, we demoed the big kit

1675
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,080
last summer.
We did demos for the ECS, the

1676
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,520
event control system, the ECS
Light kit we did about a month

1677
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:08,240
ago out in Vegas.
We've had some investors step in

1678
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:11,360
and give us some money to go
into production.

1679
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:15,480
So we are building the 1st 25
units of the ECS light kit,

1680
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:20,560
which has an incredible range of
capabilities in a very small

1681
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:26,000
powerful package, easy to
deploy, consistency of equipment

1682
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:29,080
across the board for your small
meetings and things like that.

1683
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:32,000
These personally, I mean, we
call it break out in the box,

1684
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:37,280
but to me, I think this thing
would be incredible for trade

1685
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:40,440
show boots cause space is it's
such a premium all the time

1686
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:44,280
yeah, when you can control
audio, video and lighting out of

1687
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:48,200
one small unit and you can
access it remotely and you can

1688
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:51,600
update it remotely.
We put 5G modems and all these

1689
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,840
things so we have access to them
from anywhere all the time yeah.

1690
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:58,200
So you're not relying on house
Internet and things like that.

1691
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:01,320
So is the is the business model
to rent those or to sell?

1692
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:04,520
Them to AV companies the
business model is to rent them

1693
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,360
OK right so you're going.
To own all the inventory, no.

1694
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:09,800
Well, let's.
Well, let's.

1695
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:13,960
Let's clarify inventory, yeah.
The control system.

1696
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:16,240
That we have built the ECS kits,
Yes we will.

1697
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:17,920
On those we will not.
That's what I meant by

1698
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:22,240
projectors, screens, displays,
drape, staging.

1699
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:23,720
Yeah, all that.
Speakers.

1700
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:26,400
No, I was just curious if the
business model was a A.

1701
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:30,120
Manufacturer and distribute
model or a manufacturer and hold

1702
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:32,480
model and it's manufacturer and
hold.

1703
01:35:32,480 --> 01:35:34,880
Yeah, yeah.
We, we have had some interest

1704
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:39,000
from a couple.
Production companies to do.

1705
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:41,040
Long.
Term lease deals for like 75 to

1706
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:43,800
like verilite model.
Verilite model, yeah.

1707
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,760
So that is definitely
conversations.

1708
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:51,280
That can be had, yeah, as we're
going, yeah, we're having a

1709
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:54,000
couple of those now.
Yeah, we've been very fortunate.

1710
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:57,800
SO3 smart partners or 4?
Is it 4 total or?

1711
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:01,960
Three in that business, it's
three, OK, it's 3.

1712
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:04,240
So 3 Really.
Smart people and I guess you.

1713
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:07,480
Divide and conquer.
So do you have two really smart

1714
01:36:07,480 --> 01:36:09,080
guys and you hanging?
Out.

1715
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:12,240
I knew that was kind, but do
you?

1716
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:15,000
Do you have to get involved in
the investor side of things at

1717
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:16,640
all?
Like is that an everyone gets

1718
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:19,880
involved or is one partner
dealing with we're all, we're

1719
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:21,560
all out there trying to bring
money in?

1720
01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:23,400
Because that's all out there,
isn't it?

1721
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:26,280
Raising awareness.
You know it is, but I.

1722
01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:30,560
Have found I found some
enjoyment.

1723
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:34,320
In it because.
When we did.

1724
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:38,840
Those demos a few weeks ago.
And the look on the people's

1725
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,560
faces, these are all seasoned.
Yeah.

1726
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:43,440
They all know what they're
looking at.

1727
01:36:43,440 --> 01:36:44,480
And.
When they walk.

1728
01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:48,080
In the room and go, holy shit,
yeah, that's it.

1729
01:36:48,440 --> 01:36:51,200
Yeah, and they've seen what?
We've been able to do with

1730
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:52,840
technology.
Yeah.

1731
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:54,520
And shrink it.
Literally.

1732
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:56,520
Honey, I shrunk the kit.
Yeah.

1733
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:58,760
You know, that's what we kind of
joke around with.

1734
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:02,680
It is game.
Changing things.

1735
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:06,440
Come around generationally and I
honestly believe that.

1736
01:37:06,440 --> 01:37:09,360
This is one of them.
Yeah, it is a.

1737
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:11,480
It is a.
Solution.

1738
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:14,120
Yeah, that is desperately
needed.

1739
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:15,520
Well, I.
I watched.

1740
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:19,080
You I watched a couple of.
Reels that were on, I don't even

1741
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:21,600
remember where your website or
LinkedIn or something.

1742
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,080
And it definitely looks
interesting.

1743
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:28,520
It's an interesting product.
You know, I had talked with, I

1744
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:31,360
think I talked with Josh at one
point about what he was doing

1745
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:36,920
early on like a year ago and you
know it, it definitely sounds

1746
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:39,560
interesting.
Like that whole AV industry side

1747
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:42,480
of things seems to be
continually growing.

1748
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:45,960
And I had a guy on a couple
weeks ago with a really cool bit

1749
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:49,120
of technology too.
I forget what it's called or

1750
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:54,720
else I'd tell you right now, but
you know, it had to do with

1751
01:37:54,720 --> 01:38:01,160
Wi-Fi audio getting around all
of like his challenge was all of

1752
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:06,080
the budget at A, at a, a keynote
address, for example, was being

1753
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:10,960
spent on these headsets for
translation was one of the big

1754
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:15,440
things.
And so with their system, all

1755
01:38:15,440 --> 01:38:18,960
you have to do is you go to a
website, which they got their

1756
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:21,640
code up and you just scan the
code and go to the website.

1757
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:26,000
And once you're on the website,
you basically can just pick a

1758
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:29,360
language.
And so through your headphones,

1759
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:31,960
on your iPhone, through your,
and you don't have to download

1760
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:34,640
an app and you don't have to
sign up for anything and all of

1761
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,440
that stuff, right?
So, and it can be branded to

1762
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:40,880
whatever that keynote is or that
convention is or whatever.

1763
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:44,480
And so you just go to this
website and, and you can either

1764
01:38:44,480 --> 01:38:47,360
pick a language or a feed.
It could be different feeds of

1765
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:50,040
different information, whether
you're an engineer, a tech or a

1766
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:54,320
this or a that or whatever.
And really super cool software.

1767
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:59,200
And I mean, it's like AI think
it's A1 Rackspace unit for for

1768
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:02,680
for every four channels.
So 4 languages for feeds for

1769
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:05,080
whatever.
Oh my God, Really inexpensive to

1770
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:08,240
use.
Really, Sebastian and.

1771
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:09,560
Don't ask me his last name.
He's.

1772
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:11,640
French Canadian.
I'll go back and I'll find it.

1773
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:13,560
Well, no, but if you want me to.
Connect you.

1774
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:15,600
I I can connect you.
Directly to Sebastian.

1775
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:21,080
Super smart guy, really very
well positioned product.

1776
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:24,240
Like it's it's not going to
change the earth, but it is

1777
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:26,920
going to change how some people
do some of these things because

1778
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:30,280
like he said, you know, he was
spending at some of these

1779
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:32,640
things.
He was spending 75 grand for

1780
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,400
headsets and then having three
people use them, you know, Oh my

1781
01:39:36,480 --> 01:39:39,480
gosh.
And it's like.

1782
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,320
It's.
Because you don't know how many

1783
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:44,880
people are going to need
translation, and if only three

1784
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,760
people use it, you've wasted
$74,000.

1785
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:51,400
You know, so it sounds like just
the thing we need for the press

1786
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:53,880
room on this show.
We're doing probably, it's gotta

1787
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:56,480
be multi language, yeah,
probably multilingual.

1788
01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:58,400
Gosh.
And he gave me some of the

1789
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,400
pricing and it's, it's very
reasonable.

1790
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:03,240
Considering, you know, what
these people are spending today,

1791
01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:06,840
it's it's incredibly reasonable.
So yeah, you should definitely

1792
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:07,680
look into it.
It's cool.

1793
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:11,480
But one of the big, one of the
big driving factors one.

1794
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:13,600
Of the big driving factors on
this is, you know, coming out

1795
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:15,520
from the pandemic, we've had
labor issues, right?

1796
01:40:16,480 --> 01:40:18,920
Like it's hard to find.
A lot of people left the

1797
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:22,560
industry and it's hard to find
if you've got a.

1798
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:27,120
Show that has. 50 breakout rooms
or more.

1799
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:31,120
Finding 50 qualified people is
hard.

1800
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:36,520
It's tough and you can't do it.
So taking some of that burden

1801
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:46,400
out and making it more presenter
focused platform make it easier

1802
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:49,080
to plug and play for them,
right.

1803
01:40:49,080 --> 01:40:51,240
So we're out there.
It makes so much sense.

1804
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:53,840
You've got an iPad, you've got a
dashboard up that's.

1805
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:56,040
Monitoring the.
Health of all the systems that

1806
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:58,960
you're responsible for.
You can see what's happening all

1807
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:01,480
the time.
So you've got a float you you

1808
01:41:01,480 --> 01:41:04,480
know, you're you're more
effective use of Labor rule like

1809
01:41:04,480 --> 01:41:07,400
a floor manager, couple of
floaters, floor manager, couple

1810
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:10,720
of floaters and you're able to
and then you have a guy down in

1811
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:14,720
master control watching all the
systems, watching the records

1812
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:18,800
how it all works.
It's just it's a great solution.

1813
01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:20,200
You have IP on this.
I would.

1814
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:23,600
Expect some.
Yeah, yeah, some.

1815
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:25,960
Some some.
Some.

1816
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:28,320
I mean some of it.
Does help me to be.

1817
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:29,480
Careful.
Yeah.

1818
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:31,760
All right.
Well, we won't go too far into

1819
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:34,160
it then.
But no, I mean it's exciting.

1820
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:38,360
Like to me, you know, sensible
solutions for big dumb problems

1821
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:41,200
that have never been addressed
makes a lot of sense.

1822
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:45,280
And, and it's why I got so like,
I remember I was looking at this

1823
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:49,520
podcast with Sebastian and I was
thinking, this is going to be so

1824
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:51,200
boring.
It looks like such a boring

1825
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:53,920
technology.
I'm not interested in this audio

1826
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:58,960
thing for, for AV or for, you
know, keynote presentations and

1827
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:02,040
stuff.
And I was blown away by it.

1828
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:06,000
I was like, it's the genius is
in its simplicity is really what

1829
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:08,240
it comes down to, and it really
is.

1830
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:10,320
I love solutions like that.
Really.

1831
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:11,360
Really.
And guess.

1832
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:14,400
What you and I both find a lot
of those solutions or dream a

1833
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:16,680
lot of them up based on
Motorsports.

1834
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:21,920
You know, Motorsports is always
looking for easier, less

1835
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:26,040
expensive solutions to to
complicated problems, right?

1836
01:42:26,440 --> 01:42:30,600
And the people remind me of our
industry very much.

1837
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:32,600
You know, they're very
passionate.

1838
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:37,160
They're usually underpaid.
And you know, they do this

1839
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:40,200
because they love it and it's a
lifestyle and it's, it's my

1840
01:42:40,200 --> 01:42:42,160
passion and it's all of those
things.

1841
01:42:42,480 --> 01:42:45,480
And so I don't think we're done
with the lighting and sound

1842
01:42:45,480 --> 01:42:47,600
stuff yet though.
So we can't get into racing yet.

1843
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,480
Racing is our reward for
finishing all the boring stuff.

1844
01:42:50,480 --> 01:42:53,520
I was going to say, I was going
to ask you what your favorite.

1845
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:58,240
Racing saying is, I don't.
Know.

1846
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:00,280
I don't have any favorites.
My favorite racing.

1847
01:43:00,280 --> 01:43:03,160
Saying is, Yep, your bills paid.
Don't worry, you don't owe us

1848
01:43:03,160 --> 01:43:05,200
anything.
You know, at the end of a

1849
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:07,880
weekend, that's what you want to
hear.

1850
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:11,240
Yeah, your bill.
Is 0 perfect when?

1851
01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:14,440
I first started racing Atlantic.
The guy told me he goes speed is

1852
01:43:14,440 --> 01:43:16,960
how fast you hit the wall,
torque is how hard you hit the

1853
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:19,520
wall.
That is awesome.

1854
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:21,880
I love that one and I'll never.
Remember it?

1855
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:24,640
I'll never remember it, but that
is awesome.

1856
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:26,760
That for the lighting stuff,
man.

1857
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:29,920
Yeah, no, I mean.
Congratulations on this.

1858
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:33,240
Business and good luck with it.
I mean, I you're still basically

1859
01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:38,440
in start up mode and and that's
exciting, scary, frustrating,

1860
01:43:38,440 --> 01:43:41,360
challenging, fun.
You know it's all of those

1861
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:44,960
things wrapped into one.
I call it excitingly terrified.

1862
01:43:45,480 --> 01:43:48,240
Yeah.
Yeah, because dude, at 60.

1863
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:50,440
I'm still learning.
Yeah, me too.

1864
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:52,240
I'm still grinding.
Me too.

1865
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:54,800
I still get up.
Every day and grind, right?

1866
01:43:54,840 --> 01:43:55,960
And I love it.
I love.

1867
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:58,160
Can't wait.
Can't wait to get up and grind

1868
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:00,040
work with.
And I've been, I've been so

1869
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:03,840
looking forward to this, right.
It's like so hate to disappoint

1870
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:04,920
you.
Yeah.

1871
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:06,600
You don't have it.
This is awesome.

1872
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:09,760
Yeah, no, yeah, I just.
I love talking about this stuff.

1873
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:13,240
Yeah, I love talking about this.
Stuff, you know, we, we skipped

1874
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:15,600
over a lot of your stories
because I actually got some

1875
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:18,080
little hint pointers here on
some of your stories.

1876
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:21,320
So tell me the one about gold
toenails, because I need to know

1877
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:23,240
this one.
It just sounds like a story I

1878
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:26,000
need to hear.
I'll try to make this quick.

1879
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:27,680
Yeah, so it's all right.
We.

1880
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:29,240
Got time.
We're out with Hank Junior.

1881
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:32,400
And I committed the.
Cardinal sin of falling asleep.

1882
01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:35,200
That boy in the front lounge,
Doc.

1883
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:37,320
What are you doing?
Well, we only had.

1884
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:39,040
A front lounge we did.
Eddie Pleasant.

1885
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:42,280
Grant had the back lounge, that
was his office, his bed.

1886
01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:44,120
OK, yeah.
Then we had the bunks in the

1887
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:45,720
front lounge for for the.
Team.

1888
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:48,880
I fell asleep and of course we
stopped at a truck.

1889
01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:53,320
We're on like a 2 day drive and
we stopped at a truck stop.

1890
01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:56,640
I've got long hair.
I get off the bus, I'm not even

1891
01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:59,480
paying attention.
You know, I've got one eye open,

1892
01:44:59,960 --> 01:45:04,160
still probably feeling the
effects of all the stuff.

1893
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:07,200
Yeah.
All the booze.

1894
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:10,400
And everything that was a heavy.
That was a heavy crew bus rider.

1895
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:14,840
That would get destroyed.
Every night, Oh yeah, Oh yeah,

1896
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:20,120
we were, we were pros and I, I
go walking in this truck stop,

1897
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:23,160
my long hair, I've got probably
a tank top and some shorts and

1898
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:26,320
flip flops on and I'm getting
all the, you know, these guys

1899
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:28,560
are like, hey, sweetie, blah,
blah, blah.

1900
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:30,560
And I'm like.
And I thought they were just.

1901
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:33,960
You know about what state?
I don't even remember where we.

1902
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:35,720
Were we were just at a like a
union?

1903
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:41,560
76 You know, back when they had
the restaurants, you know, and I

1904
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:43,040
thought it.
Was a whole turn the page.

1905
01:45:43,040 --> 01:45:44,880
Moment, you know, Bob Seger,
turn the page.

1906
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:46,880
Moment, you know, is that a
woman or a man?

1907
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:49,000
You know, they're just giving me
shit.

1908
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:52,000
So I just keep walking, right?
And I sit down.

1909
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:54,800
And it's when I sit down with
Kirk and Kirk Marks, who we

1910
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:57,960
mentioned before, and I'd sit
down with them and I look down

1911
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:00,640
and I see that my toenails are
all painted.

1912
01:46:03,480 --> 01:46:06,040
They.
Did that it dawned on me till

1913
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:06,960
years.
Later.

1914
01:46:08,360 --> 01:46:11,840
Where the did anybody's people
have nail Polish?

1915
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:14,120
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.

1916
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:17,120
Yeah.
So I looked at Kurt and I'm

1917
01:46:17,120 --> 01:46:19,760
like.
Who the fuck did this?

1918
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:21,920
To me he goes.
I am not telling you to set.

1919
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:25,760
Carpenter's name.
That's hilarious.

1920
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:27,400
It was.
A guy named Fred Coats.

1921
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:29,840
Yeah.
Fred Coats and so.

1922
01:46:30,480 --> 01:46:33,360
Fast forward about.
Two weeks, we're playing the the

1923
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:35,560
State Fair down there in
Sedalia, MO.

1924
01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:38,920
You're on this big stage in the
middle of the racetrack.

1925
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:42,120
And I knew it was time to get
Fred back.

1926
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:45,200
And so I had gone.
There was a bunch of like

1927
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:48,040
Missouri State Patrol guys all
hanging around, and we're just

1928
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:49,880
sitting all shooting the shit
with him and whatnot.

1929
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:54,400
And I said, hey, you guys want
to help me pull a pull a joke?

1930
01:46:54,440 --> 01:46:58,800
And they're like, yes, great.
So I recruit.

1931
01:46:58,800 --> 01:46:59,640
Like four of them.
And.

1932
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:04,000
These guys are like.
Big yeah, Just Jack, right?

1933
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:08,640
And.
And so I go and I get a bunch of

1934
01:47:08,640 --> 01:47:10,280
T-shirts and stuff for.
Them and just swag.

1935
01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:14,800
Them down right and So what I
ended up doing Fred is sitting

1936
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:19,840
on a road case with a bunch of.
He's he's got nothing.

1937
01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:24,400
On but like some running shorts
and and and A and a Fanny pack.

1938
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:27,000
Yeah.
And I didn't want it to get out

1939
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,760
of control.
So I sent Bud Phillips to his

1940
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,360
guitar attack.
I said go tell Fred that there's

1941
01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:36,560
some cops looking for him, you
know, and tell him you'll hold

1942
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:39,160
his Fanny pack because I didn't
know if Fred had anything on him

1943
01:47:39,160 --> 01:47:41,480
or whatever and I didn't want
the Yeah, I didn't want the

1944
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:43,120
joke.
You didn't want it turning into

1945
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:45,040
a real arrest.
I didn't want it turning.

1946
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:47,640
Into a thing, yeah.
So what I.

1947
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:51,640
Told the cops was I said tell
Fred that you're because I know

1948
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:55,960
Fred had hooked up with these
girls in Oklahoma like 3 days

1949
01:47:55,960 --> 01:47:59,840
ago, four days ago.
And so I said tell him.

1950
01:47:59,880 --> 01:48:01,680
Tell him you want to.
Talk to him about some.

1951
01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:04,040
Statutory thing out of Oklahoma
City.

1952
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:07,760
And so these cops go over and
they pick Fred up, and Fred is a

1953
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:11,480
small, you know, 80 lbs.
Soaking wet in a burlap bag,

1954
01:48:11,480 --> 01:48:14,880
right?
He's not a big guy and these.

1955
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:18,240
Guys, pick him up.
He's just sitting there with his

1956
01:48:18,240 --> 01:48:22,480
feet dangling and he's like
Kurt, Kurt, help me, help me.

1957
01:48:22,480 --> 01:48:24,600
Somebody help me?
And they just start.

1958
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:28,320
Parading him all around,
backstage, all out.

1959
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:30,720
At what point did he?
Realize it was a joke.

1960
01:48:32,120 --> 01:48:33,640
When they went to go put him in
the.

1961
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:36,760
Car and one of the other.
Cops steps up and he goes, boy,

1962
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,120
don't you need to know?
You need to be this.

1963
01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:42,360
Tall to ride in the.
Missouri State Patrol and he

1964
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:45,080
turns, they turn him around his.
Feet never hit the ground the

1965
01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:47,000
whole time.
They turn him around and we're

1966
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:48,160
all standing there and I'm
going.

1967
01:48:48,160 --> 01:48:51,520
I got you, mother.
That's a good one.

1968
01:48:52,480 --> 01:48:54,560
That's a good one.
That's a damn.

1969
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:57,160
Good one.
Oh my God.

1970
01:48:57,160 --> 01:48:59,880
You know, it's funny because.
Again, I never got the.

1971
01:48:59,880 --> 01:49:01,640
Opportunity to do that.
On the road with.

1972
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:05,160
Lighting people, although some
of my employees and stuff, like

1973
01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:07,640
every once in a while we'd have
some fun if we were in a hotel

1974
01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:11,520
somewhere.
But playing in bands when I was

1975
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:16,600
like, in my late teens,
18/19/17, you know, touring in

1976
01:49:16,600 --> 01:49:20,000
Western Canada and really junky
little towns with, you know,

1977
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:22,960
terrible places.
But we did all those same

1978
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:24,640
things.
You know, some really, really

1979
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:29,800
bad practical jokes were played.
And it was always so much fun.

1980
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:33,280
But, you know, you had to be
careful how far you pushed it

1981
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:35,120
because you know, there's going
to be a response.

1982
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:38,280
Yeah, Yeah.
And it's going to go further and

1983
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:39,240
next.
Thing you know.

1984
01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:41,520
Unfortunately that that that
capped it.

1985
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:42,480
You did it.
That's.

1986
01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:44,120
The one we were even knew we
were.

1987
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:46,240
Yeah, you shook hands and said.
OK, we're done.

1988
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:47,200
Oh, yeah.
Oh.

1989
01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:49,560
Yeah, he was just like, he was
so relieved.

1990
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:51,840
He was so relieved.
That's hilarious.

1991
01:49:52,160 --> 01:49:53,680
So.
There's a couple.

1992
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,160
Other good ones here that I've
got.

1993
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:59,240
Apparently you were like
deported at some point or almost

1994
01:49:59,240 --> 01:50:02,480
deported or something.
Deportation is the code word I

1995
01:50:02,480 --> 01:50:04,200
got here.
What's that about?

1996
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:07,840
Maybe?
Oh, was this in Czech?

1997
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:12,760
Czechoslovakia.
There's a couple of those that's

1998
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:14,000
pretty funny.
You know, right?

1999
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:16,760
There, that's a pretty.
Funny statement before the wall

2000
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:18,800
came down before.
The Wall.

2001
01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:23,440
Came down.
Doing.

2002
01:50:23,440 --> 01:50:24,640
Doing.
A gig for Peter.

2003
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:26,440
Yeah, right.
I was working.

2004
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:28,680
Not directly, but.
Kind of indirectly.

2005
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:32,760
For, for Clark, I was over in
Europe before the wall came down

2006
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:37,200
and you used to have to sneak
over into like Czechoslovakia

2007
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:40,360
and you know, OK, you should
have to sneak over there and

2008
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:43,440
play daytime shows and then haul
ass back across the border

2009
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:47,080
before nightfall, right?
The same thing in in.

2010
01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:48,840
Germany.
Right, you you try to.

2011
01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:53,240
Get into East Berlin and go do
some shows and then hop back

2012
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:56,400
across.
What if he got it was we did?

2013
01:50:56,400 --> 01:50:59,280
There is stuff we did.
And so.

2014
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:02,320
We're coming back.
Down these back roads and once

2015
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:02,920
you've.
Got these.

2016
01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:05,960
Guys that don't speak, I mean,
speak no English and you've got

2017
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,560
to hook somebody on your team,
somebody in the band or somebody

2018
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:11,360
in the crew.
And this was with a German metal

2019
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:13,640
band called Victory.
OK, right.

2020
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:15,480
And we had snuck over.
We were.

2021
01:51:15,480 --> 01:51:19,080
In two vans.
One with, you know, like four of

2022
01:51:19,080 --> 01:51:22,160
us crew guys and some back line
and the band and the other.

2023
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:26,000
And so we hauled ass over did
like this noon show in the

2024
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:29,920
basement of a basically the
basement of a whorehouse.

2025
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:33,760
There and.
Just outside of Prague, and

2026
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:39,640
we're hauling back, hauling us
back, and we get blipped on one

2027
01:51:39,640 --> 01:51:42,360
of these little back roads.
And did you ever see Stripes?

2028
01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:44,080
Do you remember the movie
Stripes?

2029
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:47,640
Those two guys with the little
guard shack and the little thing

2030
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:51,320
that came down?
That's exactly what it was,

2031
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:52,800
yeah.
That's.

2032
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:54,760
Exactly and.
It all it is, is a shakedown,

2033
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:57,480
right?
But this happened to be a

2034
01:51:57,480 --> 01:51:58,880
Friday.
Yeah.

2035
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:04,200
And so they needed weekend cash.
They needed something.

2036
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:08,320
And so they're like.
You know, one of the guys on the

2037
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:12,000
cruise spoke enough whatever to
communicate with these guys.

2038
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:17,760
So we don't have any money.
I mean, I've got a fistful of

2039
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:21,600
Deutsche Marks and some lira and
some, you know, whatever pounds,

2040
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:23,880
you know, that I've got floating
around in my duffel bag.

2041
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:27,200
But I don't yeah, I don't really
have got what, 50 bucks on the

2042
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:31,520
total, right.
And so there's it's not a lot of

2043
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:35,640
money.
And so you can't call anybody in

2044
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:37,720
London because it's.
Like 6.

2045
01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:41,240
PM 7:00 PM on a Friday night,
you know they're gone.

2046
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:45,760
This is way before pagers and
cell phones and in any of that,

2047
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:47,560
you know it's hard to.
Remember that.

2048
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,680
Isn't it like when you actually
had to catch people?

2049
01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:52,920
While they were in their office,
so they didn't think this

2050
01:52:52,920 --> 01:52:56,640
through, right?
So now they can either.

2051
01:52:56,640 --> 01:53:00,440
Let us go but.
The nearest town is like.

2052
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:03,640
Another 3030 clicks.
Back the other way, Yeah.

2053
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:05,960
So they're not going to take us
there because then they won't

2054
01:53:05,960 --> 01:53:08,880
get their money.
But they didn't think it through

2055
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:11,520
because now they got to house us
and feed us for the weekend.

2056
01:53:12,120 --> 01:53:14,040
Oh boy, till somebody opens on
Monday.

2057
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:15,960
And so.
We end up going.

2058
01:53:16,040 --> 01:53:20,360
To this guy's mom's house.
Who the the.

2059
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:23,000
Guard One of the guards.
There's two of them.

2060
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:25,920
Takes you to his mom's house.
And we go, yeah, we go to their

2061
01:53:25,960 --> 01:53:27,280
mom.
'S house, which is like a click.

2062
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:28,960
Down the road.
And that's where we hung out for

2063
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:31,360
the weekend.
You're kidding me it.

2064
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:35,600
Was more way.
More like Mayberry than Midnight

2065
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:38,600
Express, right?
That is insane.

2066
01:53:39,560 --> 01:53:42,000
The craziest thing, of course,
come one day.

2067
01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:45,160
They get a hold of somebody at
the label or at the management

2068
01:53:45,160 --> 01:53:47,440
office and the next thing you
know, there's somebody driving

2069
01:53:47,440 --> 01:53:50,400
over, you know, it's a few 100
bucks or something.

2070
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:51,720
How much was it?
I don't.

2071
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:54,520
Even remember?
Yeah, I don't even remember that

2072
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:56,440
is.
Hilarious, the.

2073
01:53:56,480 --> 01:53:59,280
Guard gave you to his.
Mom's house, basically.

2074
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:00,560
Holding you for ransom?
Yeah.

2075
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:05,920
Yeah, isn't that crazy?
And I I think I remember.

2076
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:07,280
Giving.
Like I.

2077
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:10,320
Had a a denim jacket from
another tour that I gave one of

2078
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:12,960
the guys.
Yeah, you know, but they were so

2079
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:14,400
clear.
I mean, they were really cool.

2080
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:17,200
There wasn't we probably,
honestly, we probably could have

2081
01:54:17,200 --> 01:54:19,040
just gotten in the car and
driven off and they wouldn't

2082
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:21,600
have done shit.
Yeah, but who wanted to take

2083
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:22,920
that chance, Right.
Yeah.

2084
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:25,640
But plus you were eating nobody.
Probably having a good time.

2085
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:28,480
Probably drinking vodka with
these guys or something, you

2086
01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:30,640
know?
And the band was just sit around

2087
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:33,080
and play music all.
Day you know that's the color of

2088
01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:35,560
the acoustics and the band was
with you too for this whole

2089
01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:38,800
thing Oh yeah they they.
Oh God, nine of us total 9 or.

2090
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:39,400
Ten of us.
I didn't.

2091
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:41,680
That's why all I think is
through.

2092
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:43,120
Yeah, that's what they didn't
think.

2093
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:46,000
We're all sleeping on the floor,
sleeping on the couch, in a

2094
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:49,360
chair, whatever couple of us
sleeping in the van, you know?

2095
01:54:49,400 --> 01:54:52,080
Sleeping out in the van.
Yeah, but it was it was kind of

2096
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:54,720
funny by.
But after lunch on Monday, we

2097
01:54:54,720 --> 01:54:58,640
were we were rolling back across
the border into Germany there.

2098
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:01,960
OK, so there's just there's one
called gummy bears and.

2099
01:55:01,960 --> 01:55:04,400
Jolt Cola.
Which, who hasn't tried that

2100
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:05,880
one?
My God, dude.

2101
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:09,400
Robert Mcteague.
Me and Big House, when we were

2102
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:13,080
doing the satellites thing, OK,
We were driving around the

2103
01:55:13,080 --> 01:55:17,680
country in that 15 foot Ryder
van, you know Van.

2104
01:55:17,680 --> 01:55:23,040
From you on the.
Back and and Steve Dunaway, not

2105
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:25,680
Steve Dunn.
I'm sorry, Steve Winstead and

2106
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:30,000
that we were living on that.
We were living on Cope and gummy

2107
01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:32,000
bears and Joe Cola and you put
all the gummy bears.

2108
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:33,840
Up in the dashboard.
And let them all melt so they

2109
01:55:33,840 --> 01:55:35,840
just come out of the sheet and
then throw them in the cooler.

2110
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:41,000
Joe Cola and we, we would take 3
Marshall cabinets in the road

2111
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:44,480
cases and turn them over as the
first part of the truck pack.

2112
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:47,120
And you had that little sliding
door that you could go to the

2113
01:55:47,120 --> 01:55:48,000
back.
Yeah.

2114
01:55:48,040 --> 01:55:50,600
And we'd rig up a hammock in
there over those cases.

2115
01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:52,520
Then you put the drum cases
behind it, so you had a little

2116
01:55:52,520 --> 01:55:53,480
wall.
Yeah.

2117
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:55,360
And so we had a little hammock
back there.

2118
01:55:55,360 --> 01:55:56,640
So you had two people up in the
front.

2119
01:55:56,640 --> 01:55:58,800
And one of us was always OK.
Yeah.

2120
01:55:59,080 --> 01:56:02,360
Driving around the country.
Yeah, we did that, except.

2121
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:05,200
With with a.
Converted school bus where the

2122
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:08,840
back half of the school bus was
the gear and the front half was

2123
01:56:08,840 --> 01:56:11,600
where you sat.
And then again, you'd rig up

2124
01:56:11,600 --> 01:56:15,240
beds somehow on top of all the
gear in the back of the bus.

2125
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:17,920
But.
Oh, I thought you were going to

2126
01:56:17,920 --> 01:56:21,200
say, like, isn't it?
Is it gummy bears that if you

2127
01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:25,360
drop them in Coke, you can,
like, the Coke blows up or

2128
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:25,800
something?
What?

2129
01:56:25,800 --> 01:56:27,720
What is it that you put in coke
and it blows up?

2130
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:30,160
I forget.
Or is it Alka seltzer or

2131
01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:30,800
something?
I don't know.

2132
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:33,280
I thought there was something to
do with gummy bears and coke or

2133
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:35,400
sometimes whatever.
That might be it.

2134
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:37,400
Yeah, That might be, yeah.
No the gummy bears, but you'll

2135
01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:39,240
strip the.
Color out of them, yeah.

2136
01:56:39,720 --> 01:56:43,560
Yeah, well, neither of those.
Things are very good, you know,

2137
01:56:43,560 --> 01:56:46,920
dietary items.
I don't think Jolt Cola, I

2138
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:48,600
remember that.
That was only around for a

2139
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:52,240
little while, but it was, it was
pretty, pretty solid sugar in

2140
01:56:52,240 --> 01:56:54,600
twice the caffeine, Yeah.
That's what it said.

2141
01:56:54,600 --> 01:56:56,560
On the can, yeah, it was like
80.

2142
01:56:56,560 --> 01:56:57,680
Grams of.
Sugar.

2143
01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:00,440
God knows it was insane
caffeine.

2144
01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:02,640
It was insane.
Just imagine.

2145
01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:05,000
What that was doing to our?
Hearts, you know.

2146
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:06,480
But we were young enough to
recover.

2147
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:10,160
We were playing all these gigs
in these small towns a lot.

2148
01:57:10,160 --> 01:57:14,160
Of colleges and just these, it
was all bar like bar gigs when

2149
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:16,320
you weren't opening for a, for a
national act.

2150
01:57:16,760 --> 01:57:19,240
So we literally got to see
America, man.

2151
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:20,840
Like.
All of it.

2152
01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:23,040
Like all.
Of it, it was.

2153
01:57:23,040 --> 01:57:26,760
So yeah, that was me too, but
just.

2154
01:57:26,760 --> 01:57:29,000
Western Canada.
You know, like Western.

2155
01:57:29,000 --> 01:57:31,320
Canada I.
Saw every dumpy little town and

2156
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:34,080
you know when you were saying
with your pink toenails?

2157
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:39,320
Hey sugar, every time we'd walk
into the Tavern that we were

2158
01:57:39,320 --> 01:57:42,520
going to be playing in for the
next week, you know, you'd walk

2159
01:57:42,520 --> 01:57:46,680
in and you're in like 2 day old
leather pants and hair down to

2160
01:57:46,680 --> 01:57:48,440
the middle of your back and
stuff, right?

2161
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:51,440
And it never failed.
You know, there's a table of

2162
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:55,040
rednecks and and they just look
at you and go hey, faggots, you

2163
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:57,600
know, And it's like, oh man,
we're going to have to fight.

2164
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:00,720
And we're starting to look for
bottles or chairs or something

2165
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:03,200
that we can use to fight these
guys off, right.

2166
01:58:03,840 --> 01:58:06,480
But yeah, we got, we got into a
few.

2167
01:58:06,600 --> 01:58:09,080
We got into a few, Yeah.
It happened.

2168
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:10,800
We weren't afraid.
It gets scrappy.

2169
01:58:11,040 --> 01:58:14,040
Yeah, I mean, hair.
I think when we got.

2170
01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:19,200
Into the probably in the 80s,
like in the mid 80s, perhaps

2171
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:24,360
maybe even the early early 80s,
you know, it was just like this

2172
01:58:24,360 --> 01:58:26,200
thing like if.
You had long hair.

2173
01:58:26,360 --> 01:58:29,720
People who didn't called you
faggots, you know, And I was

2174
01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:31,480
like, you know, but all the
time.

2175
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:33,880
But your girlfriend likes me
more than you.

2176
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:36,280
How can I be a faggot?
You know, like, what are you

2177
01:58:36,280 --> 01:58:38,280
saying to me?
You know, just.

2178
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:39,440
Crazy stuff.
Crazy.

2179
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:41,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dude, we got all.

2180
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,200
That stuff, we got all that
stuff.

2181
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:46,880
Most of the time you just keep
walking like whatever, that's

2182
01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:48,920
usually, but we definitely got
in.

2183
01:58:49,200 --> 01:58:50,720
We definitely.
Got in some scraps.

2184
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:54,720
Occasionally, yeah, but it's
it's you're in a bad way.

2185
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:57,160
If you've got.
Two or three rednecks or whoever

2186
01:58:57,160 --> 01:59:00,360
it is, you know, townies up
north, if it is what they call

2187
01:59:00,360 --> 01:59:02,880
them, but you get two or three
of those guys and they're

2188
01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:04,120
picking on one.
Of you or.

2189
01:59:04,120 --> 01:59:07,360
Two of you, Yeah.
The next thing you know, when

2190
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:11,400
the rest of the squad finds out,
you've got a dozen big King

2191
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:14,560
roadies.
Yeah, we'll just RIP you to

2192
01:59:14,600 --> 01:59:16,440
shreds, yeah.
Yeah, there's.

2193
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:17,960
Always.
Somebody that's got your back,

2194
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:21,880
you know?
And so you.

2195
01:59:21,880 --> 01:59:23,000
Know we're going to have to
venture.

2196
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:25,200
Over to racing here, so I'm
warning everyone who's

2197
01:59:25,200 --> 01:59:28,920
listening, if you hate my talks
on racing, you're about to hate

2198
01:59:28,920 --> 01:59:31,280
this one because Duck and I are
going to start talking about

2199
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:35,600
racing.
So I think you have been into it

2200
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:38,880
a lot longer than me, so I'll
give you my short history of

2201
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:43,440
racing.
I had sports cars and they were

2202
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:46,160
starting to get a little faster
and a little more elaborate.

2203
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:50,680
And so I got to a point where I
was like, hey, I don't want to

2204
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:53,600
have a problem driving on a
local street.

2205
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:57,360
So I don't want to drive fast
and stupid on local roads in

2206
01:59:57,360 --> 02:00:00,920
South Florida.
So I'm just going to start doing

2207
02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:04,360
these.
The, you know, HPD ES, the high

2208
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:06,000
performance driving events,
right?

2209
02:00:06,440 --> 02:00:10,280
And there's so many different
clubs in Florida and I'm sure at

2210
02:00:10,280 --> 02:00:14,200
Rd.
Atlanta and and Rumbling Rd.

2211
02:00:14,200 --> 02:00:16,080
where I've been a bunch of times
as well.

2212
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:22,120
And you know, you guys have some
tracks around there, but you

2213
02:00:22,120 --> 02:00:25,600
know, so in South Florida, the
Homestead, Palm Beach, which is

2214
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:29,640
now closed, you know, we used to
always have places that we could

2215
02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:32,400
go and it was pretty cheap and,
and I would go and take my

2216
02:00:32,400 --> 02:00:34,720
sports car and just get better
and better at it.

2217
02:00:34,720 --> 02:00:40,560
And then I bought a NASCAR and
converted it over to Rd. racing

2218
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:45,040
and took out half the roll cage
and put another seat in.

2219
02:00:45,160 --> 02:00:48,520
So I, I labeled it all up for my
company.

2220
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:51,160
You know, we wrapped it in my
company logos and stuff.

2221
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:55,240
And actually what I did is I
went to five of our suppliers.

2222
02:00:55,480 --> 02:00:58,000
I, I got a price for wrapping
this NASCAR.

2223
02:00:58,120 --> 02:01:01,120
It was 2500 bucks.
I went to five suppliers and

2224
02:01:01,120 --> 02:01:05,080
said 500 bucks to put your logo
on my NASCAR and they were like

2225
02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:08,040
hell yeah.
So I put like 5 logos on the.

2226
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:12,240
NASCAR it paid for.
The RAP and, and I would just

2227
02:01:12,240 --> 02:01:15,880
use it to take customers out for
a few laps, you know, and, and

2228
02:01:15,880 --> 02:01:21,760
just scare the shit out of them.
And so now my son was like 6 and

2229
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:24,600
he'd go to the track with me and
you know, I could take him for a

2230
02:01:24,600 --> 02:01:25,880
lap or two every once in a
while.

2231
02:01:25,880 --> 02:01:29,280
They'd let me, you know, if if
there was nobody else on the

2232
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:31,880
track or whatever, they'd let me
take him out for a few laps.

2233
02:01:32,200 --> 02:01:34,200
And he loved it.
Like he loved the smell of

2234
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:36,480
exhaust.
He loved the smell of racing

2235
02:01:36,480 --> 02:01:38,680
fuel.
You know, he loved brakes.

2236
02:01:38,680 --> 02:01:41,000
Like, he just loved the whole
experience, right?

2237
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:43,480
So he kept bugging me, Dad, I
want to drive something.

2238
02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:45,400
I want to drive something.
And at Palm Beach, there's a go

2239
02:01:45,400 --> 02:01:48,640
Kart track right attached to it
next door.

2240
02:01:49,200 --> 02:01:52,000
And so we went over there and
they wouldn't let him on the

2241
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:57,320
rental carts because he was only
6, but they would let him on a

2242
02:01:57,320 --> 02:02:02,080
professional cart as long as he
hired a coach to do.

2243
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:05,440
He'd follow with him.
And the dogs attacking.

2244
02:02:06,200 --> 02:02:09,000
Yeah, killer.
Sit down, killer.

2245
02:02:09,440 --> 02:02:12,920
So.
We put him out with a don't

2246
02:02:12,920 --> 02:02:14,440
worry about the background
noise, by the way.

2247
02:02:14,720 --> 02:02:18,560
We put him out with a coach to
do these lead follow things and

2248
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:20,960
he did a couple sessions and
that was it.

2249
02:02:21,080 --> 02:02:25,200
He was like, since that moment,
he's never wanted to do anything

2250
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:27,280
else in his whole life except
race.

2251
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:31,920
And so my racing stopped at
which it wasn't racing, it was

2252
02:02:31,920 --> 02:02:34,360
just driving fast.
It was never wheel to wheel.

2253
02:02:34,360 --> 02:02:38,200
Like I never, I, I got an SCCA
license, but I've never used it.

2254
02:02:38,360 --> 02:02:41,600
You know, I've never actually
joined a race and gone out and

2255
02:02:41,600 --> 02:02:43,920
started a race and all of those
things.

2256
02:02:44,120 --> 02:02:47,480
I've just done high performance
things or high speed driving

2257
02:02:47,480 --> 02:02:50,160
events.
And so you know, he started in

2258
02:02:50,160 --> 02:02:53,680
karting and it started as just
we'll go to Palm Beach and you

2259
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:55,680
can just drive some laps and
have some fun.

2260
02:02:55,680 --> 02:02:59,040
And then they had a club race.
They convinced us to do it.

2261
02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:02,760
He was hooked and you know, so
then we joined one of the

2262
02:03:03,040 --> 02:03:05,960
Florida series.
It was called Florida Pro Karts

2263
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:10,000
something or other and on and on
next.

2264
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:11,400
Thing you know we're.
Racing nationally,

2265
02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:15,560
internationally.
He did karts for about, I guess

2266
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:19,240
nine years and then got into
cars at 15.

2267
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:21,800
And actually Roebling Rd. was
the first track he did.

2268
02:03:21,800 --> 02:03:27,400
We we booked it privately for a
couple of days and we bought a

2269
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:33,640
formula, Formula Four and went
up there with it for a few days

2270
02:03:33,640 --> 02:03:37,240
and got it prepped and got him
fitted into the seat and all of

2271
02:03:37,240 --> 02:03:39,840
the different stuff.
And he went out and did two days

2272
02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:43,880
on the track and and yeah, so
that's a great track to learn

2273
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:45,800
on.
He hated it.

2274
02:03:46,000 --> 02:03:48,160
He still hates it you.
Know it's.

2275
02:03:48,240 --> 02:03:50,880
A good place to learn because
it's flat, it's wide, and

2276
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:52,080
there's mega.
Runoff.

2277
02:03:52,360 --> 02:03:55,320
Yeah, right.
Like the only thing I have.

2278
02:03:55,320 --> 02:03:57,840
Ever hit up?
There was a pig running across a

2279
02:03:57,840 --> 02:04:00,360
track in the middle of a race.
That's a bit weird.

2280
02:04:00,640 --> 02:04:02,080
Yeah, Yeah.
But yeah.

2281
02:04:02,280 --> 02:04:04,480
That's a good place to learn,
yeah.

2282
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:06,880
Well, and it's inexpensive to to
rent.

2283
02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:10,480
It on you know yeah compared to
other tracks you can rent that

2284
02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:14,320
track for depending on what's
going on like you know 15102

2285
02:04:14,320 --> 02:04:16,840
grand a day something like that
so if you get one or two other

2286
02:04:16,840 --> 02:04:19,840
drivers to share it with you
it's not expensive at all 100%

2287
02:04:20,120 --> 02:04:22,960
and and yeah so his career.
Has just.

2288
02:04:22,960 --> 02:04:26,680
Gone on from there and he's done
a few different formula series

2289
02:04:26,680 --> 02:04:30,320
along the way and spent two
years in or a year and a half in

2290
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:34,640
England racing over there and
now he's doing mostly coaching

2291
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:39,200
cuz at the end of last season
basically I pulled his funding

2292
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,280
and and said hey you're fully
sponsored by somebody else now

2293
02:04:42,280 --> 02:04:46,000
if you want to keep going and
you know he's he's a very good

2294
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:51,320
driver he's won a lot of races
but you know you can't compete

2295
02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:56,440
anymore like the money is just
so ridiculous so yeah yeah the

2296
02:04:56,640 --> 02:04:59,160
the other one is how do you.
Make a small fortune in racing.

2297
02:04:59,360 --> 02:05:02,280
Yeah, start with the big one.
Yeah, but I mean.

2298
02:05:02,280 --> 02:05:04,160
It's gotten like at.
His what he's.

2299
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:08,040
Doing, you know, the next level
is is, you know, one step under

2300
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:11,800
Indy, one step under Formula One
and we're talking about, you

2301
02:05:11,800 --> 02:05:16,520
know, several $1,000,000 a
season to race those right now.

2302
02:05:16,520 --> 02:05:20,320
And you know, it's not like
Mercedes or McLaren just go, hey

2303
02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:22,800
kid, you're real good.
We like you come and race for us

2304
02:05:22,800 --> 02:05:25,400
because they can get paid seats
in those cars.

2305
02:05:25,400 --> 02:05:28,440
You know, they don't need to pay
people or to give them away.

2306
02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:31,480
And so hard, it's really hard
right now.

2307
02:05:31,480 --> 02:05:34,080
But the problem is it's watering
down the talent in those big

2308
02:05:34,080 --> 02:05:38,840
league series and it's happening
in a lot of the GT series to the

2309
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:43,240
the, you know, what do they call
them tin tops, the cars with

2310
02:05:43,240 --> 02:05:46,720
doors and stuff?
Yeah, the GT cars, Yeah.

2311
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:49,600
So he's done a bit of that.
He's done some Miata.

2312
02:05:49,600 --> 02:05:52,960
Stuff he's done, all that kind
of stuff, but I haven't been in

2313
02:05:52,960 --> 02:05:56,000
a race car in a long time
myself.

2314
02:05:57,120 --> 02:06:00,640
So how'd you get going?
Was it a dad and son thing or

2315
02:06:00,640 --> 02:06:03,160
no?
It was actually a friend and his

2316
02:06:03,160 --> 02:06:06,960
dad.
Derek and Gordon Stennis got me

2317
02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:09,480
hooked.
Gordon Derek's dad.

2318
02:06:09,480 --> 02:06:10,920
Derek was my friend in high
school.

2319
02:06:11,280 --> 02:06:16,480
His dad ran a 65 Shelby GT350
with the SVRA and HSR.

2320
02:06:16,880 --> 02:06:20,120
And so we were always at Rd.
Atlanta, especially for the

2321
02:06:20,120 --> 02:06:21,840
Walter Mitty, but we were always
at Rd.

2322
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:25,920
Atlanta, you know, doing that.
And then when we got of age, you

2323
02:06:25,920 --> 02:06:28,000
know, we could drive.
Yeah.

2324
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:31,880
What was that age back then
though, 16?

2325
02:06:32,240 --> 02:06:34,080
Because now, I mean, it's like
13.

2326
02:06:34,080 --> 02:06:36,560
Year olds can get in.
Cars it's crazy now because of

2327
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:40,080
the money you know nobody, none
of these organizations are

2328
02:06:40,080 --> 02:06:42,920
turning away from that cash no,
no.

2329
02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:46,240
So I just renewed my.
SCCA membership just renewed.

2330
02:06:46,240 --> 02:06:48,320
I think this is year 30.
Yeah.

2331
02:06:48,720 --> 02:06:50,920
Wow for the SCCA.
That's wild.

2332
02:06:50,920 --> 02:06:54,240
Rent it.
We're in Atlantics for a while.

2333
02:06:55,800 --> 02:07:01,280
Started with an RT5, then an RT
41, then my last one was a swift

2334
02:07:01,280 --> 02:07:05,200
double O 8.
You still had to find them.

2335
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:07,400
And grind them.
There was none of this paddle

2336
02:07:07,400 --> 02:07:11,720
shifting crap, so yeah, you had
to actually match RPMS.

2337
02:07:11,720 --> 02:07:15,360
And do stuff.
Yeah, we just, you learned so

2338
02:07:15,360 --> 02:07:17,320
much, change the gear stats, all
that stuff.

2339
02:07:17,320 --> 02:07:20,600
Yeah, Jerry just did a bunch of
F 1600 stuff and.

2340
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:24,480
Same thing, you know, he had
never driven a stick in a car,

2341
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:29,560
streetcar or a race car.
And somebody threw him into a

2342
02:07:29,800 --> 02:07:32,600
somebody threw him into a
Formula Atlantic, I think, and

2343
02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:36,520
then said, hey, we want you to
run the F 1600 series in

2344
02:07:36,520 --> 02:07:40,240
England.
And yeah, And so he did it.

2345
02:07:40,240 --> 02:07:42,160
And you know H.
Pattern had.

2346
02:07:42,160 --> 02:07:44,160
No trouble at all.
Like he stalled it a couple

2347
02:07:44,160 --> 02:07:47,760
times in the very beginning, but
not in any races or anything.

2348
02:07:47,760 --> 02:07:50,760
And his big problem is he's 6
foot 4.

2349
02:07:51,120 --> 02:07:54,320
So you know, I don't know if
you've ever been in an F 1600

2350
02:07:54,320 --> 02:07:56,960
car.
They're not very big and he

2351
02:07:57,040 --> 02:08:01,200
needs a bashing against the,
the, the top of the cockpit.

2352
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:04,000
You know, we had to make a lot
of adjustments to get into the

2353
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:05,280
Atlantic because I'm.
Wide.

2354
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:08,720
Oh, OK, yeah, yeah, but the the
last.

2355
02:08:08,720 --> 02:08:11,520
Problem too.
Yeah, the last car was an 83 Van

2356
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:16,520
Diemen Formula Ford.
OK, Right now it's a Club Ford

2357
02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:19,400
because it only runs regionally.
Don't run the Nationals with it,

2358
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:24,800
but that was much more
forgiving.

2359
02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:28,640
In the comfort.
Department, yeah, but yeah dude,

2360
02:08:28,720 --> 02:08:30,320
here in Atlanta we're.
Lucky because we've got.

2361
02:08:30,320 --> 02:08:31,960
Rd.
Atlanta, you got Roebling Rd.

2362
02:08:31,960 --> 02:08:34,800
Savannah, like you said,
Carolina Motorsports Park and

2363
02:08:34,800 --> 02:08:36,640
Kershaw is only a couple hours
tow.

2364
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:40,200
Charlotte's only a 5 hour tow.
Barber's a 2 1/2 hour tow.

2365
02:08:40,640 --> 02:08:43,560
Yeah, yeah, we did the car
track.

2366
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:48,240
At Roebling Rd. a bunch of times
but I we never did the car track

2367
02:08:48,240 --> 02:08:50,960
there.
But Rhode Atlanta is one of one

2368
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:54,080
of my son's favourites.
He won a couple of SCCA races

2369
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:57,960
there that we were practicing
for the Formula Four series or

2370
02:08:58,040 --> 02:09:00,800
or USF series.
I don't remember what it was,

2371
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:08,480
but I do more flagging or OR.
EV or you know, pit and grid,

2372
02:09:09,440 --> 02:09:10,920
I'm all over the place out
there.

2373
02:09:11,360 --> 02:09:16,880
Yeah, I don't have the time or
the the again the funding, but

2374
02:09:16,880 --> 02:09:19,440
mostly it's a time.
It's a time constraint now.

2375
02:09:19,600 --> 02:09:22,600
Yeah, no, I get it.
I completely get.

2376
02:09:22,600 --> 02:09:26,000
It, you know, it's for me, it's
more money, you know, it's just

2377
02:09:26,320 --> 02:09:30,480
because, I mean, I think people
would be sick to their stomachs

2378
02:09:30,480 --> 02:09:33,920
if I told them, you know what,
I've got invested into my kids

2379
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:36,320
racing at this point.
Just keep that between us.

2380
02:09:36,400 --> 02:09:38,400
Yeah, it's.
It's, you know, I don't want

2381
02:09:38,400 --> 02:09:41,040
Kelly finding out.
You know, it's a silly amount of

2382
02:09:41,040 --> 02:09:42,640
money.
You know much money gets spent.

2383
02:09:43,120 --> 02:09:45,760
Like people will tell me.
You know, you know.

2384
02:09:45,920 --> 02:09:49,720
Like who told me recently,
somebody said, you know, my I've

2385
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:54,240
got, oh, I was talking with Greg
Jones from Martin yesterday,

2386
02:09:54,400 --> 02:09:57,000
Martin lighting and he was
telling me, yeah, you know, I've

2387
02:09:57,000 --> 02:10:00,240
got my daughter plays tennis and
you know, we're spending

2388
02:10:00,240 --> 02:10:05,000
sometimes as much as 1500, two,
$1000 a weekend to be at these

2389
02:10:05,000 --> 02:10:07,080
tennis tournaments, you know,
for her.

2390
02:10:07,760 --> 02:10:09,880
And and I'm like, dude, hold my
beer.

2391
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:10,440
You.
Know.

2392
02:10:10,440 --> 02:10:12,920
Like, I mean, drop another
couple of zeros on there.

2393
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:16,360
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it's it's it's like.

2394
02:10:16,360 --> 02:10:19,680
You.
Have no idea and like I'll give

2395
02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:25,240
you an example.
USF Junior We got to be the

2396
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:31,400
first race series to race on the
Lake of the Ozarks, Ozark

2397
02:10:31,400 --> 02:10:35,880
International Raceway which
funny Side Story so.

2398
02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:38,720
I'm on the NAV.
Going from like Saint Louis

2399
02:10:38,720 --> 02:10:42,840
airport to the Raceway.
So I put in, you know, the name

2400
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:45,360
of the Raceway which they gave
me, which was Ozarks

2401
02:10:45,360 --> 02:10:49,200
International Raceway.
So we get there and I'm at the

2402
02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:51,800
gate and the gates locked and
I'm looking inside and it's a

2403
02:10:51,800 --> 02:10:55,000
drag strip and I don't see any
trucks or anything like cuz

2404
02:10:55,000 --> 02:10:57,320
there would have been tons of
transporters there.

2405
02:10:57,800 --> 02:11:03,840
And I don't see anything.
And I call our team manager and

2406
02:11:03,840 --> 02:11:05,880
I'm like where are you?
And he goes we're at the track

2407
02:11:05,880 --> 02:11:09,240
waiting for you, where are you?
And I said I guess we're at the

2408
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:10,960
wrong track.
I don't know.

2409
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:13,840
And he goes, oh, I forgot to
tell you there's 2 tracks.

2410
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:17,920
And I guess even some of the
team transporters had showed up

2411
02:11:17,920 --> 02:11:21,800
at this wrong track man.
Like why would you name 2 tracks

2412
02:11:22,040 --> 02:11:24,400
Ozark International Raceway?
Why?

2413
02:11:24,760 --> 02:11:27,560
Why change one of those names
please?

2414
02:11:27,760 --> 02:11:33,120
But anyways, so this was the
first real race event at this

2415
02:11:33,120 --> 02:11:35,400
track.
It's a it's a club track for

2416
02:11:35,400 --> 02:11:37,320
rich, rich old guys, right,
right.

2417
02:11:37,600 --> 02:11:40,840
And it's the first time they had
a real event in there and it was

2418
02:11:40,840 --> 02:11:47,080
us and Porsche car or Porsche
Club of America or no us.

2419
02:11:47,080 --> 02:11:50,600
And it might have been Porsche
GT3.

2420
02:11:50,600 --> 02:11:53,120
I don't remember.
It was one of the Porsche series

2421
02:11:53,920 --> 02:12:00,880
and but a big series and so we
get there and and the. 1st.

2422
02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:03,160
Race.
Well actually no, the first

2423
02:12:03,160 --> 02:12:05,280
practice like half the cars went
off the track.

2424
02:12:05,280 --> 02:12:12,280
So it's a it's a blind down.
Turn 1 is a blind downhill off

2425
02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:17,880
camber, left turn, hard left 90°
left downhill off camber with no

2426
02:12:17,880 --> 02:12:20,880
runoff.
So imagine how many cars got

2427
02:12:20,880 --> 02:12:24,560
wrecked in that first turn.
Like lots of cars, Porsches were

2428
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:27,040
being destroyed.
Like, you know, 2, three,

2429
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:30,040
$400,000 Porsches were being
destroyed.

2430
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:36,160
So we're in race one of the
weekend and my son's fast.

2431
02:12:36,160 --> 02:12:41,000
I think we qualified third or
something and we're in race one.

2432
02:12:41,600 --> 02:12:44,640
A kid in front of him, I think
we were lapping the kid if I

2433
02:12:44,640 --> 02:12:47,800
remember correctly.
But a kid in front of us spins

2434
02:12:48,280 --> 02:12:52,720
highest speed part of the track.
We're doing 160 probably and he

2435
02:12:52,720 --> 02:12:56,680
spins in front of us and goes
off the track, doesn't hit his

2436
02:12:56,680 --> 02:13:01,120
brakes so he rolls back onto the
track right in front of my son.

2437
02:13:01,600 --> 02:13:05,680
And so my son had to make a hard
left real quick and there was a

2438
02:13:05,680 --> 02:13:09,840
bunch of runoff, but the guy
behind him also followed us to

2439
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:15,200
do the hard left, hit us and
basically helped push us into

2440
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:18,040
the wall.
Totaled the car, like snapped

2441
02:13:18,040 --> 02:13:22,880
our freaking, you know, gearbox
off the engine and you know,

2442
02:13:22,880 --> 02:13:27,760
snapped the the fiber, carbon
fiber chassis in half the tub.

2443
02:13:28,480 --> 02:13:30,120
You know, I mean, it was just a
disaster.

2444
02:13:30,120 --> 02:13:34,040
It was like a it was $100,000
wreck in race one.

2445
02:13:34,240 --> 02:13:37,200
We'll get this.
The very first time I ever

2446
02:13:37,200 --> 02:13:40,800
bought insurance in a race ever.
Like, I had never bought

2447
02:13:41,080 --> 02:13:44,840
insurance, but as soon as I saw
this track, I just went, this is

2448
02:13:44,840 --> 02:13:47,360
going to be bad.
Like nobody's ever been here.

2449
02:13:48,120 --> 02:13:50,800
It's a disaster.
There's going to be problems.

2450
02:13:50,960 --> 02:13:52,480
How much was that insurance
again?

2451
02:13:52,880 --> 02:13:56,440
And so I bought the insurance
and we totalled the car in the

2452
02:13:56,440 --> 02:13:59,640
first race.
Crazy.

2453
02:13:59,880 --> 02:14:00,760
Just.
Lunacy.

2454
02:14:01,280 --> 02:14:03,200
Where's Jeremy now?
Is he here in the States or is

2455
02:14:03,200 --> 02:14:04,240
he still over in New York?
No, he's.

2456
02:14:04,240 --> 02:14:06,960
In the States now, he's actually
this week.

2457
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:13,160
He's in Homestead, he's coaching
somebody in USF 2000 and I

2458
02:14:13,160 --> 02:14:16,440
believe then he's coaching
karting kid on the weekend or

2459
02:14:16,440 --> 02:14:17,080
something.
I don't know.

2460
02:14:17,080 --> 02:14:19,640
He's got two different things
going on this week in Homestead.

2461
02:14:20,000 --> 02:14:23,000
But yeah, he travels around.
He's he's doing a bunch of

2462
02:14:23,000 --> 02:14:24,480
coaching right now.
He likes it.

2463
02:14:24,920 --> 02:14:29,680
He wants to be in a car racing.
He really wants to do that.

2464
02:14:29,680 --> 02:14:32,320
But you know, who knows what,
what's going to happen?

2465
02:14:32,320 --> 02:14:34,400
I don't know right now.
Like he, he's got a lot of

2466
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:36,160
friends, He's got a lot of
people who like him.

2467
02:14:36,400 --> 02:14:41,520
He won a lot of big races and,
and you know, he's got a good

2468
02:14:41,520 --> 02:14:43,320
name.
He just doesn't have a

2469
02:14:43,320 --> 02:14:47,400
billionaire dad, you know, So
has he has he is IMSA on his

2470
02:14:47,400 --> 02:14:51,200
radar at all?
Yes, but.

2471
02:14:51,200 --> 02:14:55,360
You know, IMSA is another one
where, I mean, the first you got

2472
02:14:55,360 --> 02:14:59,360
to do a couple of paid years in
IMSA and it's, you know, four

2473
02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:04,240
500,000 a season, you know, so
it's real money, you know, it's

2474
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:09,840
real money.
And so you know, yeah, he's in

2475
02:15:09,840 --> 02:15:12,120
line with everybody else looking
for cash right now.

2476
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:16,400
And if he finds it, if he finds
it, great.

2477
02:15:16,400 --> 02:15:21,600
If he doesn't find it, I
basically, I've bankrolled him

2478
02:15:21,600 --> 02:15:27,040
for 10 years and that's over
because now I'm 60, you know,

2479
02:15:27,040 --> 02:15:30,320
and now I really need to focus
on the rest of my life too,

2480
02:15:30,320 --> 02:15:31,000
right?
Yeah, yeah.

2481
02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:34,480
And also I want to leave him
something when when I go, you

2482
02:15:34,480 --> 02:15:37,400
know, and I'm not gonna if if I
just keep spending it all on on

2483
02:15:37,400 --> 02:15:38,520
Motorsports.
So.

2484
02:15:38,520 --> 02:15:41,400
Well, you and I both know what
the commitment it takes to to.

2485
02:15:41,880 --> 02:15:44,320
Get a car out there and to do
this thing right, and all the

2486
02:15:44,320 --> 02:15:46,800
learning that goes with it and
all the crash damage that goes

2487
02:15:46,800 --> 02:15:49,720
with it and all the the stuff
that you can't control because

2488
02:15:49,720 --> 02:15:51,960
some guy thinks he's Mario
freaking Andretti.

2489
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:53,480
Yeah.
And he's not.

2490
02:15:53,640 --> 02:15:58,520
Yeah, that that was a thing with
with the HSR and the SVRA guys,

2491
02:15:58,520 --> 02:16:04,720
with the vintage racing guys.
They have 0 tolerance for the

2492
02:16:04,720 --> 02:16:07,960
trust fund babies, right?
Because these guys get out there

2493
02:16:07,960 --> 02:16:14,560
and they've got some Mac daddy
ungodly fast machine and they

2494
02:16:14,560 --> 02:16:16,840
have no idea what to do.
With it except you.

2495
02:16:16,840 --> 02:16:20,640
Know skinny pedal down and they
just there is a flip side to

2496
02:16:20,640 --> 02:16:22,520
that though yeah there is a flip
side to.

2497
02:16:22,560 --> 02:16:26,120
That because we bought a, we
bought an F2. 1000 car which I.

2498
02:16:26,120 --> 02:16:29,480
Still have just to practice in,
right?

2499
02:16:29,480 --> 02:16:35,320
And so we'll join any SCCA or we
would at the time when we were

2500
02:16:35,320 --> 02:16:38,760
racing big series, we would join
any SCCA race because you could,

2501
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:42,920
because SCCA was the governing
body of some of these race

2502
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:46,760
series like like Formula Four
and stuff like that.

2503
02:16:47,200 --> 02:16:51,639
You were able to do SCCA races
even on competitive tracks a

2504
02:16:51,639 --> 02:16:54,680
couple of weeks before you were
gonna be racing the big series

2505
02:16:54,680 --> 02:16:57,680
at that track.
So we'd look for an SCCA race a

2506
02:16:57,680 --> 02:16:59,799
couple weeks before we were at
Rd.

2507
02:17:00,040 --> 02:17:02,360
America or Rd.
Atlanta or wherever.

2508
02:17:02,799 --> 02:17:08,360
And the problem was like all
these old guys would always have

2509
02:17:08,360 --> 02:17:10,840
attitude right away.
Oh yeah, young kid, you know,

2510
02:17:10,840 --> 02:17:13,639
coming into our series and
thinks you're going to take it.

2511
02:17:13,639 --> 02:17:16,719
And you know, I remember one at,
at Sebring, it was terrible.

2512
02:17:16,719 --> 02:17:20,879
Like Jeremy won by almost 2 full
laps in rain.

2513
02:17:20,959 --> 02:17:23,559
It was raining bad.
And he had just come back from

2514
02:17:23,559 --> 02:17:25,120
spending a few months in
England.

2515
02:17:25,400 --> 02:17:27,600
He was unbelievable on a wet
track.

2516
02:17:27,639 --> 02:17:31,120
Like in England, you're racing
different levels of, of wet

2517
02:17:31,400 --> 02:17:33,120
every damn time.
You're every day.

2518
02:17:33,480 --> 02:17:37,600
Like you go from dry to wet to
cold to warm to hot to wet again

2519
02:17:37,600 --> 02:17:42,639
to damp to you know, it's just
insane the the experience you're

2520
02:17:42,639 --> 02:17:44,520
going to get wet racing in
England.

2521
02:17:45,040 --> 02:17:48,320
So anyways, he comes back.
He's a lap and 1/2 he won won

2522
02:17:48,320 --> 02:17:54,240
this race by and so we had used
some shitty old dry rotted rain

2523
02:17:54,240 --> 02:17:58,680
tires that were in the trailer
for the guy who managed Jeremy

2524
02:17:58,680 --> 02:18:01,320
when he raced here.
They were in his trailer.

2525
02:18:01,680 --> 02:18:03,920
And you might even know I'm a
guy named John Betos.

2526
02:18:04,760 --> 02:18:05,799
I know who he is.
Yeah.

2527
02:18:05,799 --> 02:18:07,120
Yeah.
So.

2528
02:18:07,600 --> 02:18:10,080
Anyways, he had these.
Old shitty tires.

2529
02:18:10,080 --> 02:18:13,400
They were probably about seven.
I think they were 6 or 7 lbs

2530
02:18:13,400 --> 02:18:16,879
heavier than the spec tire for
SCCA for this race.

2531
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:19,840
And they were old and dry
rotted.

2532
02:18:19,840 --> 02:18:24,360
I mean, they were a probably
second or two a lap

2533
02:18:24,400 --> 02:18:26,440
disadvantaged they gave us,
right?

2534
02:18:27,080 --> 02:18:29,600
They were just disgusting these
tires.

2535
02:18:29,879 --> 02:18:34,480
So anyways, we win the race by a
lap and a half and half hour

2536
02:18:34,480 --> 02:18:39,120
later a tech guy comes over to
our our tent or our truck or

2537
02:18:39,120 --> 02:18:42,879
whatever and says, hey guys, I'm
sorry, but we have to disqualify

2538
02:18:42,879 --> 02:18:45,160
you.
And we're like, what?

2539
02:18:45,920 --> 02:18:47,240
You know what?
Are you talking about?

2540
02:18:47,400 --> 02:18:52,200
And he says, well, the purse,
the two guys in second and third

2541
02:18:52,360 --> 02:18:57,120
have have filed a protest over
your rain tires because they're

2542
02:18:57,120 --> 02:18:59,559
not spec rain tires.
And we're like, take a look at

2543
02:18:59,559 --> 02:19:02,160
these things, will you, you
know, like, please just take a

2544
02:19:02,160 --> 02:19:04,240
look.
You know, they are not only a

2545
02:19:04,240 --> 02:19:06,559
disadvantage, but a big
disadvantage.

2546
02:19:06,559 --> 02:19:10,240
And we weren't going to buy
brand new rain tires to race an

2547
02:19:10,240 --> 02:19:14,520
SCCA race with a bunch of old
guys like for one day, man, if

2548
02:19:14,520 --> 02:19:17,040
we had the right tires, we would
have beat them by three laps,

2549
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:22,480
you know.
And, and so they, they actually

2550
02:19:22,480 --> 02:19:27,120
took away his first place trophy
and went and took it to to this

2551
02:19:27,120 --> 02:19:29,840
guy.
And Jeremy had to stand like in

2552
02:19:29,840 --> 02:19:33,639
3rd place behind first and 2nd
on the podium.

2553
02:19:33,639 --> 02:19:36,280
And I made him do it, you know,
because he was like, F that.

2554
02:19:36,280 --> 02:19:39,000
I'm not going in on the podium
with these clowns.

2555
02:19:39,520 --> 02:19:42,799
And he actually almost got in a
fistfight with like this 70 year

2556
02:19:42,799 --> 02:19:46,360
old guy who was talking smack to
him on the podium like fucking

2557
02:19:46,360 --> 02:19:48,200
cheater and all this bullshit,
right?

2558
02:19:49,080 --> 02:19:50,360
And he's like, what are you
talking about?

2559
02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:52,200
Like, first of all, you can keep
your trophy.

2560
02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:54,640
I didn't even want it.
Like I'm here to practice.

2561
02:19:54,640 --> 02:19:56,960
I'm not here to beat up on old
men.

2562
02:19:57,400 --> 02:20:00,000
And you know, secondly, you're
so fucking slow.

2563
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:01,360
Like you shouldn't be worried
about me.

2564
02:20:01,360 --> 02:20:04,480
You should be worried about you.
You know, don't worry about me.

2565
02:20:04,680 --> 02:20:06,840
Like I know what I'm doing.
You might want to worry about

2566
02:20:06,840 --> 02:20:09,440
your own racing lines and stuff,
right?

2567
02:20:10,120 --> 02:20:14,000
So I've had the complete
opposite experience with.

2568
02:20:14,120 --> 02:20:17,840
With with the guys, because it's
like, you know, anytime the car

2569
02:20:17,840 --> 02:20:22,240
gets bent, by the time you get
back from medical, the other

2570
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:24,280
Formula four guys have already
got your front.

2571
02:20:24,320 --> 02:20:27,080
You know, the front corner off
and of getting the spare parts

2572
02:20:27,080 --> 02:20:29,440
out of your trailer and putting
the shit back together because

2573
02:20:29,800 --> 02:20:32,040
there's no money in it, right?
We're all doing it for fun.

2574
02:20:32,040 --> 02:20:34,320
They just want to be on track.
They want everybody to be on

2575
02:20:34,320 --> 02:20:37,960
track, get as much track down as
we can, get as much fun as we

2576
02:20:37,960 --> 02:20:39,800
can.
That's how it should be, and

2577
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:41,520
that's been my experience.
So that's why.

2578
02:20:41,520 --> 02:20:44,200
I try to, that was our
experience sometimes, but the

2579
02:20:44,200 --> 02:20:48,000
problem is when a.
When a 17 year old kid, yeah,

2580
02:20:48,000 --> 02:20:51,560
beats a bunch of old guys who
have been racing for friggin

2581
02:20:51,560 --> 02:20:58,560
3040 years badly by a couple of
laps, they get upset, you know,

2582
02:20:58,560 --> 02:21:01,040
and and they get these egos.
You were running.

2583
02:21:01,040 --> 02:21:05,040
This was, this was FX, they call
it in SCCA.

2584
02:21:05,040 --> 02:21:08,560
It was Oh yeah, because it was
AF2000F2000.

2585
02:21:08,600 --> 02:21:14,880
Yeah, it was an F2000.
So basically AF 1600, same same

2586
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:19,760
body, but with arrow with wings
on it.

2587
02:21:19,800 --> 02:21:22,880
And that's a that's a shame.
Man, I'm sorry you.

2588
02:21:22,880 --> 02:21:27,000
Had that experience, yeah.
No, I mean overall I'm not.

2589
02:21:27,160 --> 02:21:30,600
Giving shit to the SECAI, like
the SEC, they're nice people and

2590
02:21:30,600 --> 02:21:32,760
and you know, we talked to them
once a year to get his

2591
02:21:32,760 --> 02:21:36,640
international FIA license
because it's easier getting it

2592
02:21:36,640 --> 02:21:38,720
through them than it is going
straight to the FIA.

2593
02:21:39,320 --> 02:21:42,040
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's expensive like we

2594
02:21:42,040 --> 02:21:42,840
just had.
To get it.

2595
02:21:42,840 --> 02:21:47,000
To go over for one race, he had
somebody pay for him to be in

2596
02:21:47,000 --> 02:21:51,680
the car for one race and it was
a $1100 I think or something to

2597
02:21:51,680 --> 02:21:54,080
get the license for one race,
you know?

2598
02:21:54,080 --> 02:21:56,840
So yeah, but you know, I love
it.

2599
02:21:56,840 --> 02:22:00,320
I have a love hate.
I actually miss go Kart races,

2600
02:22:00,400 --> 02:22:04,520
you know, because go Kart races,
the camaraderie among dads.

2601
02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:10,080
I have great friends still from
our our time racing karts and

2602
02:22:10,080 --> 02:22:12,080
neither one of my kids were
interested at all.

2603
02:22:12,360 --> 02:22:14,160
Try to get them into.
Quarter midgets.

2604
02:22:14,760 --> 02:22:17,320
To me, Kart racing is the
greatest thing on earth.

2605
02:22:17,320 --> 02:22:20,040
Like.
As far as motorsport, it to me

2606
02:22:20,360 --> 02:22:22,560
is some of the most fun racing
to watch.

2607
02:22:22,560 --> 02:22:25,320
It's some of the most
competitive and professional

2608
02:22:25,320 --> 02:22:28,240
racing to watch.
Like people again, they think go

2609
02:22:28,240 --> 02:22:31,040
karts and they're like, Oh yeah,
you race little go karts.

2610
02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:34,360
We're we're on transporters that
are as big as some.

2611
02:22:34,360 --> 02:22:36,360
IndyCar.
Teams, we're in tents that are

2612
02:22:36,360 --> 02:22:41,160
as professional as IndyCar teams
and you know, many of us are

2613
02:22:41,160 --> 02:22:46,280
spending ten, twelve, $15,000 a
weekend to be in a go Kart race,

2614
02:22:46,320 --> 02:22:49,880
you know, 100% and, and so like
this stuff.

2615
02:22:50,160 --> 02:22:51,920
This.
Stuff's seriously professional

2616
02:22:51,920 --> 02:22:52,720
racing.
Jeremy.

2617
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:56,080
Fortunately for the last couple
years he raced in karts, was

2618
02:22:56,080 --> 02:22:59,120
fully sponsored, so like Tony,
Cart was giving him a free

2619
02:22:59,120 --> 02:23:03,320
chassis every two races and you
know, we were getting that's.

2620
02:23:03,680 --> 02:23:06,120
Pretty much the.
Battle Man, the mechanic.

2621
02:23:06,120 --> 02:23:08,680
Was on my payroll, but other
than that everything was.

2622
02:23:08,760 --> 02:23:12,800
Was, was was sponsored?
The team, the tent, the the.

2623
02:23:13,280 --> 02:23:14,840
Yeah, it was all sponsored.
So.

2624
02:23:15,720 --> 02:23:16,200
So.
Yeah.

2625
02:23:16,880 --> 02:23:18,840
Well, man, it's been fun.
I'm hungry.

2626
02:23:18,880 --> 02:23:23,080
It's past my lunchtime.
And, you know, it's been

2627
02:23:23,080 --> 02:23:24,640
amazing.
I feel like we could talk for

2628
02:23:24,640 --> 02:23:27,280
two more hours.
And I do hear all your stories.

2629
02:23:27,280 --> 02:23:29,720
I would love to.
We'll have to do it again for

2630
02:23:29,720 --> 02:23:31,400
sure.
We'll have to do it again.

2631
02:23:31,400 --> 02:23:34,040
Please, if you, if you hit that
spot, call me.

2632
02:23:34,040 --> 02:23:35,920
I would.
Love to jump back on with you.

2633
02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:38,520
No, we'll bring you back on
again and we'll come up.

2634
02:23:38,760 --> 02:23:40,880
More tough to cover.
Yeah, we.

2635
02:23:40,880 --> 02:23:43,080
Do, but you know, I mean the
other thing.

2636
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:47,000
Is that Eric Loader from Elation
is one of our sponsors and he

2637
02:23:47,000 --> 02:23:49,680
always complaints.
Marcel, you gotta keep it at an

2638
02:23:49,680 --> 02:23:52,040
hour or an hour and a half.
Anything more than that, you're

2639
02:23:52,040 --> 02:23:55,880
gonna lose listeners.
And I'm like, Eric, hit pause,

2640
02:23:55,880 --> 02:23:58,360
listen to the other half later.
That's what I do.

2641
02:23:58,360 --> 02:24:02,320
I mean, we'll listen to three
hour Joe Rogan episodes over a

2642
02:24:02,320 --> 02:24:05,360
week, you know.
Hey, real quick before you,

2643
02:24:05,360 --> 02:24:08,120
before we sign off just.
Do you listen to the Dale Junior

2644
02:24:08,120 --> 02:24:11,760
download?
No, you need to check that out.

2645
02:24:11,760 --> 02:24:13,080
Really.
I'm not a NASCAR.

2646
02:24:13,080 --> 02:24:14,680
Guy though.
But here's the.

2647
02:24:14,680 --> 02:24:16,760
Beauty of it, when you go back
through all he.

2648
02:24:16,760 --> 02:24:21,080
Has such a an affinity for the
history of the sport.

2649
02:24:21,200 --> 02:24:23,360
Yeah.
And when he gets on people like

2650
02:24:23,360 --> 02:24:28,160
Leonard Wood or Harry Gant, I
hear, but he gets a lot of these

2651
02:24:28,160 --> 02:24:32,000
old school guys who were like
crew chiefs and drivers and

2652
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:34,680
mechanics in like the 70s and
80s.

2653
02:24:34,960 --> 02:24:38,800
And they talk about the the
innovation you were alluding to

2654
02:24:38,840 --> 02:24:43,360
earlier with racing the
downright dirtiest cheating SH

2655
02:24:43,520 --> 02:24:46,960
ever, man, right?
And it's really cool to hear

2656
02:24:46,960 --> 02:24:50,400
those kinds of stories.
I'm not a massive NASCAR fan

2657
02:24:50,400 --> 02:24:53,080
either, but I love Dale.
I've loved what he's done for

2658
02:24:53,080 --> 02:24:55,200
the sport.
I love what he's done with the

2659
02:24:55,200 --> 02:25:00,160
podcast and his respect for all
these different generations of

2660
02:25:00,160 --> 02:25:03,760
owners, drivers, mechanics and
people in racing.

2661
02:25:03,920 --> 02:25:06,160
I love that stuff.
You know, it's like this guy,

2662
02:25:06,160 --> 02:25:10,520
John.
Batos who's what's his company?

2663
02:25:11,520 --> 02:25:15,400
Jesus Christ.
I can't remember the name of his

2664
02:25:15,400 --> 02:25:18,760
freaking company that sells
parts and stuff in in racing.

2665
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:24,680
Holy shit I can't believe I
forget it was the name of his

2666
02:25:24,680 --> 02:25:27,840
racing team forever.
But do you know Henry Gilbert

2667
02:25:29,400 --> 02:25:31,360
down in South Florida Hollywood?
Florida.

2668
02:25:31,560 --> 02:25:33,400
He has a Corvette.
Racing school.

2669
02:25:33,400 --> 02:25:37,200
He does.
He's got a Daytona Prototype car

2670
02:25:37,200 --> 02:25:40,080
that he drives once in a while,
but he rents it out a lot and

2671
02:25:40,320 --> 02:25:44,240
he's been around racing forever.
Or John, the SCCA guy from South

2672
02:25:44,240 --> 02:25:47,080
Florida.
John, Italian last name, I

2673
02:25:47,080 --> 02:25:48,600
forget his name.
Great guy.

2674
02:25:48,600 --> 02:25:51,200
I've known him for 100 years.
Can't remember his last name.

2675
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:53,320
I don't know a lot of those cats
outside of my region.

2676
02:25:53,360 --> 02:25:55,320
Yeah.
Yeah, well, John.

2677
02:25:55,320 --> 02:25:57,120
John was pretty famous.
He died a.

2678
02:25:57,120 --> 02:26:01,200
Couple years ago, sadly, but he
was pretty famous in the SCCA

2679
02:26:01,200 --> 02:26:04,120
ranks.
But anyways, yeah, no, let's

2680
02:26:04,120 --> 02:26:08,040
let's do it again and talk more
about lighting, talk more about

2681
02:26:08,040 --> 02:26:11,800
racing and, and, but I've
enjoyed it.

2682
02:26:11,880 --> 02:26:13,440
It's been fun, man.
Thank you so much.

2683
02:26:13,440 --> 02:26:16,640
Two hours went by like nothing.
Dude, I'm so grateful.

2684
02:26:16,760 --> 02:26:18,000
Thank you very much for having
me.

2685
02:26:18,000 --> 02:26:19,480
I'm grateful.
To you, this has been awesome.

2686
02:26:19,560 --> 02:26:23,600
Yeah, this has been awesome and
good luck with.

2687
02:26:23,760 --> 02:26:26,000
Both of your new businesses.
Thank you very much.

2688
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:29,400
I like what you're doing and I
think there's some legs there,

2689
02:26:29,400 --> 02:26:33,240
so hopefully it works out.
You're doing something at LDI,

2690
02:26:33,240 --> 02:26:34,320
right?
You're gonna have a booth there

2691
02:26:34,320 --> 02:26:36,120
or something.
I think we're gonna have a

2692
02:26:36,120 --> 02:26:38,200
presence.
We may be off site and.

2693
02:26:38,200 --> 02:26:40,200
Do a We might, We may host an
evening.

2694
02:26:40,520 --> 02:26:42,280
Don't tell them that.
Don't tell them if they're gonna

2695
02:26:42,280 --> 02:26:43,240
do anything else.
We may host.

2696
02:26:43,240 --> 02:26:45,720
An evening, Yeah, somewhere and
have an off site.

2697
02:26:45,960 --> 02:26:48,760
Yeah, good, cool.
And the same thing within AB and

2698
02:26:48,840 --> 02:26:50,000
and some other stuff.
It's.

2699
02:26:50,000 --> 02:26:52,440
Expensive to do all those shows
when you're first starting out.

2700
02:26:52,440 --> 02:26:55,400
Trust me, I get it.
It is, it is, but it's we need

2701
02:26:55,400 --> 02:26:57,440
to, we need to go ahead.
And make the presents.

2702
02:26:57,440 --> 02:26:59,600
Yeah.
So we'll have some experience by

2703
02:26:59,600 --> 02:27:02,520
the time those are all around,
have some field experience and

2704
02:27:02,520 --> 02:27:04,560
some feedback.
So that's all good.

2705
02:27:04,720 --> 02:27:06,160
Yeah.
All right, buddy.

2706
02:27:06,320 --> 02:27:08,280
Well, thank you so much.
And we'll see you.

2707
02:27:08,360 --> 02:27:09,280
Cheers.
All right.