#260 - Lori Rubinstein

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I just had the pleasure of
spending about an hour and a

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half with Lori Rubinstein, who
is, I believe the executive

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director is her title of Behind
the Scenes organization, an

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extremely important organization
that helps people who are in

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need in our industry, especially
people who are sick with

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debilitating diseases, cancer or
whatever.

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She talked about a gentleman who
had a leg amputated, a lot of

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mental health concerns, you
know, that that Behind the

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Scenes are working on.
And by the way, they also have

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incredible Christmas cards or
holiday cards that you can

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purchase from the site that
support people in our industry.

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So Lori is a very smart woman,
very interesting woman, and has

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just done incredible work
between Esta and behind the

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scenes.
So I really hope you enjoy this

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podcast.
And yeah, Episode 260.

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Hello and thanks for joining
today for Geezes of Gear Episode

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00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,720
260.
This podcast is brought to you

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00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,040
by Ultimate Support.
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Here we are episode #260 and
just a couple things to cover

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this morning.
So first, as far as the industry

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is concerned, I'm sure everyone
knows by now because you

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probably follow the busy busiest
social media poster out there,

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Cosmo Wilson.
And so Aerosmith have retired

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and I've heard a lot of
different angles on this and you

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know, as to why it's all related
obviously to Steven Tyler, but

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is it health related?
Is it related to some bad habits

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that he's had over the years and
continues to fall off the wagon

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occasionally?
I've heard it doesn't really

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matter at the end of the day,
you know, it's obviously the end

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of an era from a music fan
standpoint or a live events fan

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standpoint.
Great band.

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They they generated some
incredible music and hit songs

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and stuff over the years.
Great live band as well.

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And personally, I'm bummed and,
and I'm also bummed for my

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friend Cosmo Wilson, who was
headed right back out on that

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one in a couple of weeks.
I think he just got back home to

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Orlando a couple days ago, as I
record this from ACDC in Europe,

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and was heading straight back
out on Aerosmith very quickly

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for the fall.
And so if you're looking for a

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brilliant, incredible lighting
designer, I think Cosmo's open

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for the fall now.
Although knowing Cosmo, he's

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probably already filled it with
something massive.

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So anyways, yeah, end of an era.
Bummed and onward this week.

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I'm kind of excited.
I'm going to hang out with Rob

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Koenig for a little while and
the Metallica crew in Edmonton.

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So I'm still up at my house in
Canada.

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I'm about four hours, I guess
from Edmonton and so I'll be

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driving over there Friday,
seeing the show Friday night and

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coming back Saturday morning.
I'll try and remember to post

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some stuff or to to record some
stuff while I'm there with Rob

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and of the show.
I think you've all seen it.

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I'm pretty excited to see, not
necessarily the band as much as

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as the rig in person, just the
way that they managed this in

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the round stadium show with,
with, you know, without a

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ceiling or a grid to hang things
from.

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Very interesting how they've
done it and I'm looking forward

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to seeing that in person.
So that's this Friday and by the

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time you've heard this, it will
have been last Friday probably

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or even previous.
What else is exciting?

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We launched our first episode of
The Leading Ladies last week,

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also on a Friday.
And so Sarah did an incredible

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job with that Sarah and Claire
Heat.

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If you haven't heard that yet,
I'm guessing that's probably

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episode 259, but I'm not
positive.

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But if you go in and look for
Sarah's lovely face in the

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intros and stuff, you will see
her there.

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And again, amazing job.
Great first episode.

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So much better than my first
episode.

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I remember it well.
And please don't go back and

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listen to episode #1 And, you
know, we've received all kinds

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of compliments and just add a
boys and add a girl.

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And, you know, I don't know that
we were setting out to create

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this, you know, social voice or
anything, but it's incredible

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that people have accepted it
that way.

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And we're grateful to be in the
position to have an audience to

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go out and do something like
this.

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And we're very grateful for the
support that we've received

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initially, even we've had a
couple of new sponsors come

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forward and say we really want
to get involved in this leading

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ladies thing.
And so, yeah, it's amazing.

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And you know, we've already had
a lot of questions, like is

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Marcel not going to interview
ladies anymore?

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Is he not going to have people
like sooner on or, or anyone?

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And no, that's not the case at
all.

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You know, we just, we have a
podcast with a couple of

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episodes a month now that is
dedicated to the women in this

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industry and how hard they work
and how sometimes it's much more

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difficult than it is for men.
You know, and Sarah and I had a

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very good conversation in a
meeting this morning talking

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about this exact topic.
And I think we're going to

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record something talking about
it as well.

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So we'll still have to podcast
under the Geezers of Gear

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umbrella and sometimes women or
females will go towards that

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podcast.
Sometimes they'll still come

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towards me because maybe they
want, you know, to be abused by,

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by me and or I want to be abused
by them.

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And so anyways, Yep, 2 podcasts
under the same banner and we're

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pretty excited about it.
We're excited by the numbers

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from the first episode.
It's done very, very well.

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And thank you to everyone for
supporting that.

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Again, back to my favorite topic
of AI.

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So I've started using quite a
few AI apps and I talk about

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this a bunch.
You know, I am a big fan of AI.

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I'm in the sort of crew that
says AI is going to support our

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work, not replace our work.
It's going to help us, not

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replace us.
And so a few of the ones that

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I've used and just want to
recommend to people if you're

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just kind of looking to sort of
dip your finger into the water

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of AI, I just started using one
called Hurdly.

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And you know, I'm always in a
hurry.

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I've always got a billion things
to do, but I love listening to

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books.
Audio books are definitely a

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passion for me, but it takes me
as long as it takes most people

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to read a book, a physical book.
It takes me that long to listen

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to a podcast because I started,
I stop it, I started, I stop it,

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I started.
I don't have a lot of time to

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sit around and even listen to a
book and I can't listen when my

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mind is going because I just
don't even hear the book.

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Like I'm hearing my mind over
the book.

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It's louder.
And so books in 15 minutes was

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very appealing to me.
And that's exactly what this app

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is.
It's called Hurdly.

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And you know, for me, the jury's
out a little bit.

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Some of the voices are weird,
you know, like you'll have

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narrator.
So these are AI generated voices

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and you'll have some that sound
really great and they're easy to

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listen to.
And then you'll have some that

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are just annoying.
And currently you're not able to

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change voices, which is kind of
annoying.

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The other thing is they use a
lot of silly analogies.

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Like they, they throw in a lot
of analogies, like, you know,

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the mountain was vast, vast,
like, you know, a bowl of

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porridge in the morning, like
just really stupid things that

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they'll say and they're throwing
these in there.

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These aren't coming from the
author.

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This is the, the AI spin on
things thinking that they're

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being funny or, or humorous or
whatever.

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So, but aside from that, I
really have actually like in the

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past week, I think I've listened
to about 10 books and, and it's

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these little 15 minute
summaries.

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So I believe they have a one
week trial and go ahead and

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download the app and and check
it out.

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It's heardly heardly, just how
it sounds heard LY.

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And so next, I've actually made
an interesting change.

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So I've been using a open AI
ChatGPT really probably for

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about a year.
And some things I've loved about

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it, some things I've really
hated about it.

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One of the things I haven't
liked about ChatGPT is whether

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you're creating a document or
you're creating an image, it

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never seems to do what you tell
it to.

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You know, you can tell it how
you want a document to be

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written, like sort of in what
theme or mood or feel or

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whatever.
And it always comes back very AI

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ish.
You know, it just, you can

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automatically just look at it
and go, yeah, written by AI.

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You know, it's using all the
same goofy terms and stuff and

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it's very dry, very bland and on
images like just a lot of really

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weird mistakes, 3 eyeballs, 3
arms, you know, just putting

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words into the image that you
didn't ask to be put in the

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image.
Or you say a company name or a

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brand name that you want in the
image and it'll just put all

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kinds of other words in there
and stuff.

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Just really annoying things.
And you know, first world

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problems, I understand.
But someone said to me, have you

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tried Elon's, have you tried
Elon's AI yet?

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And it's XAI, but, but the
actual tool is called Grok.

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And no, I haven't.
So I went on to Twitter to see

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how I could figure out how to
try it.

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And you have to pay.
So you have to become a premium

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member on Twitter, which I
wasn't and and now I am.

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And so just happens to be the
same price as what I was paying

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for open AI anyways.
And I get all these added

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benefits.
I get a blue check mark on my

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name on Twitter where I never
post.

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And so, so anyways, bottom line
is I love it.

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Grok is amazing.
Grok has the same quirky,

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interesting, fun sense of humor
that Elon does.

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And so when you have it write
something with you or for you,

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it actually is sarcastic like I
am.

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It's sarcastic like Elon Musk
is.

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It's got humor, it's got spin
and innuendo and it's fun.

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And it just writes a lot more
like I want to write.

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And so I have used it to help me
write some things again, I, I

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would never create something on
AI and then kick it straight out

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to the market.
I just don't do that.

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So I'll have it write it on AI
and then I'll go in and rewrite

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it.
But at least it gives you a

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really strong framework.
And So what I would say is on

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ChatGPT, that framework was
maybe 30% of the way done.

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And on Grok, it's about 75% of
the way done.

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So I have to do less editing.
I have to do less thinking and

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adding.
It's done a lot more of the

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lifting for me.
Same with images.

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With images, I've had the exact
same result that, you know, the

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images are more fun, they're
less dry and boring.

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And so I've even gone in and had
it make some images using the

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exact same prompt that I used in
in ChatGPT or Dolly to create an

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image.
I've gone into grok and created

226
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,760
an image using that exact same
prompt and come up with a much

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00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,000
better result from my my
viewpoint anyway.

228
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,680
So check it out again.
The problem is there's no free

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00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,680
trial.
So and there's no like open AI.

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00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,280
You can use ChatGPT for free.
You just don't get all the

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00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:25,120
features with Grok, you have to
pay to get it, and I think the

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00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,560
minimum level to pay is $10 a
month.

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00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:28,880
So it's not a huge amount of
money.

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00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,480
Another one is in video.
And so in video, basically you

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00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,560
can go in and just say here's
sort of the premise and the

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00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,720
concept, and it'll produce an
entire video, including

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00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,320
scripting it.
And you can select what kind of

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00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,600
voice.
Do you want an accent?

239
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,080
Do you want a man?
Do you want a woman?

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00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,920
All kinds of stuff that you can
customize or you can write your

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00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,600
own script or you can go back in
and edit the script and it will

242
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,800
add images.
It'll do all kinds of things.

243
00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:00,200
And again, on a free account,
those images will all be royalty

244
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,760
based images.
So you have to go in and change

245
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,680
it to royalty free or whatever.
I just went ahead and paid for

246
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,840
it again.
I think it's probably 20 or 25

247
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,560
bucks a month, which sort of
seems to be the price for AI

248
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,880
apps these days is $20.00 a
month.

249
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,560
That's where everybody wants to
be.

250
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,720
And so I love in video.
Again, I wouldn't use it for

251
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,000
highly produced wonderful videos
or anything, but if you're

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00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,880
creating a simple little
explainer, here's how you do

253
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,480
this thing video or a little,
you know, you want to put

254
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,520
something out on Facebook that
kind of shows off some of your

255
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,640
pictures or your event or
something.

256
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,920
NVIDIA is really, really good at
that stuff and explainer videos.

257
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,360
It does really well.
And so check it out.

258
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:49,960
They do have a free trial.
Again, it'll use images that

259
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,880
have royalties on them.
It'll have watermarks and you

260
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,880
won't be able to do as much
editing and stuff.

261
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,400
But, and again, when I talk
about editing on these things,

262
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,320
I'm talking about editing from
the standpoint of ACEO, not a

263
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,560
video editor, not a not a
writer, not any of those things.

264
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,800
So these are really simple
editing tasks that I'm doing.

265
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,160
And then finally, Opus Clips.
I might have even talked about

266
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,720
this one before, but it's really
it's, it's something that we use

267
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,840
a lot, especially for geezers of
gear, but I use it in other

268
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,000
parts of my life as well.
And so the cool thing about Opus

269
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,280
Clips is what you can do is you
can upload a video and it can be

270
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,120
really any video.
It can be a video produced on AI

271
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,520
or a video of one of your shows
or a video of anything.

272
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:43,400
And Opus Clips has just created
a way of finding viral moments

273
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,600
within that video.
So let's say it's a 10 minute

274
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,080
video.
What it'll go and do is it'll go

275
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,680
and pick out five or six little
under one minute sections.

276
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,600
So you tell it basically where
you're going to use these clips.

277
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,680
If you tell it you're going to
use them on YouTube Shorts, it

278
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,880
knows that it needs to be a
minute or less, but you could

279
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,920
say I want these to be 32nd
clips.

280
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,720
So you can select the time of
the clip or where you're going

281
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,359
to be placing it on reels.
It's up to 90 seconds and it

282
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,720
just creates these clips and I
can tell you about 80% of the

283
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,079
time they're awesome.
And then 20% of the time you're

284
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:21,240
like, weird.
I wondered why.

285
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,480
I wonder why it picked that out
and it ended so abruptly And it

286
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,480
just is awkward and, but most of
the time it's like it.

287
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,560
And by the way, it edits, so
it'll chop little pieces and

288
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,640
create a 62nd video and then it
captions it and puts a title to

289
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,520
it and the headline and all
kinds of stuff.

290
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,880
It does all the work.
And I would say again, 80% of

291
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,760
the time it's friggin perfect.
20% of the time it's bordering

292
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,960
on unusable.
So you just delete those clips

293
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,080
and don't use them.
And the other 80% you use great

294
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,920
tool again, probably.
I think we paid 100 bucks for a

295
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,400
year or something, so it wasn't
expensive.

296
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,640
Really, really, really useful
app.

297
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,880
Next, I actually wanted to try
and do a screen share, but I

298
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,080
think it's too complicated.
You can go search for this.

299
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:19,680
There is an AI generated parody
song about immigrants.

300
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,360
It's it's a German song and it's
on the charts in in the top 50

301
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:29,080
in Germany right now by an
artist called butter Bro or a

302
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,200
programmer or coder called
butter Bro totally AI generated

303
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,560
visuals.
The song is AI generated and

304
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,640
it's on the charts right now and
it it's the thing was just done

305
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,840
as a joke, as a parody and it's
charting and it's making this

306
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,600
butter bro person all kinds of
money.

307
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,680
So go check that out.
I saw it on YouTube.

308
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,240
You can just go search for it
and you'll find it.

309
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,240
And another an interesting
wrinkle in this.

310
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,640
Any of the, the fearful
naysayers of AI are going to

311
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,400
hear this and go see, I told
you.

312
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,280
So there's an interesting thing
happening.

313
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,400
Interesting, sad, terrible
publishers who are working with

314
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,360
authors are selling academic
papers right now.

315
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,640
And so this could be happening
with fictional, non fictional,

316
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,880
whatever down the road.
But right now it's academic

317
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,080
papers and they're selling them
to tech companies who are then

318
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:31,480
using them to train these AI
large language models.

319
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,880
So they're using them for AI
training and they're earning

320
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,560
millions from companies that
they're doing this IAI training

321
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,280
for, and the authors are
receiving nothing for their

322
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,640
work.
So you're an author.

323
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:50,360
You publish a document, a
manual, a book, whatever it is

324
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,600
through a publisher.
That publisher is basically

325
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,560
renting out your information.
You're publishing your details.

326
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,560
Not for people to use verbatim,
but to build that large language

327
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:12,200
model, to build that the AI
bought the training to train the

328
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,320
AI system and they're being paid
for that and you're getting

329
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,520
nothing.
And so this is opening up a big

330
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,080
can of worms on, on who owns
what and who has what rights and

331
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,400
things like that.
And that is a fight that's going

332
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,560
to go on for a long time, I
believe.

333
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,280
And it's scary.
It's a really scary topic.

334
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,480
And that's one that I'm on.
Any of you who are fearful of

335
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,520
AI, I'm on your side on that one
because you wrote it.

336
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,200
You've spent years learning that
craft and now they're just

337
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,040
coming and duplicating your
writings and they're not, again,

338
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,280
they're not just copy and
pasting the stuff that you've

339
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,840
written.
That would be, you know,

340
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,640
plagiarism or theft or whatever
you want to call it in any form.

341
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,360
But what they're doing is
they're taking that information,

342
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,880
handing it to the computer and
saying, hey, read all of this

343
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:04,440
stuff and bank that knowledge
and you're getting nothing from

344
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,160
that.
So you've trained these

345
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,400
computers for free basically,
and these companies are going to

346
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,440
be trillion dollar companies or
more than a trillion dollar

347
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,000
companies.
This is going to be a massive

348
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,080
market and massive wealth being
generated, but not for the

349
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,320
people who are training the the
computers and that's terrible.

350
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,600
So onward.
Today's guest is somebody I've

351
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,960
known for a very long time and
always had a great deal of

352
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,560
respect for.
Lori Rubenstein is the Executive

353
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,120
Director of the Behind the
Scenes Foundation A5O1C3

354
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,880
charity, which provides basic
needs grants to entertainment

355
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,560
technology professionals who are
seriously ill or injured and

356
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,360
counseling grants for therapy or
addiction rehab.

357
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,200
The BTS Mental Health Initiative
provides tools and resources to

358
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,440
support entertainment industry
workers and promote mental

359
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,280
health and Wellness.
Lori has been in the industry

360
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,800
for over 45 years and was the
Executive Director of the

361
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,200
Entertainment Services and
Technology Association, also

362
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,440
known as ESTA, for almost 30
years where she oversaw the

363
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,000
creation and development of an
NC Accredited Technical

364
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,080
Standards Program and the
Entertainment Technician

365
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,200
Certification Program.
Her experience in the industry

366
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,320
also includes working as a
lighting designer and stage

367
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,120
manager for dance, Symphony,
theatre and musicals, and for

368
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:33,040
industry businesses including a
lighting supply company, a

369
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,120
theatre consultancy and a
manufacturer of entertainment

370
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:38,920
products.
Is that enough?

371
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,880
Wow, that is quite a resume.
So please join me and welcome

372
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:50,040
Lori Rubenstein.
Well, hello Lori, how are you?

373
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,320
I'm fine myself.
Thank you for inviting me to be

374
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,960
a guest.
Well, and thank you for being so

375
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,920
incredibly patient with the
process of getting into the

376
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,200
studio today.
It was.

377
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,560
It was a task.
It was, but I'm glad we finally

378
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,360
made it.
Yes, me too.

379
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:08,720
Me too.
I've been looking forward to

380
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,200
this.
So I was thinking this morning,

381
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:19,800
I had you on during COVID and,
and I had a very specific

382
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,440
situation, a guy who I was
friends with on Facebook, who

383
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,680
basically on Facebook was
threatening to off himself.

384
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,480
And so I was reaching out to
this gentleman and I didn't know

385
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,960
how to handle it.
And I, I remember reaching out

386
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,880
to you and saying, what do I do?
You know, what do I do about

387
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,160
this?
Like, I'm not sure.

388
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,800
I don't know where to send him.
I don't know, like how to say

389
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,480
the right things or not say the
wrong things.

390
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,600
And I was really nervous about
this, but I was very upset that,

391
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,920
and by the way, I didn't know
the guy well or anything.

392
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,160
He was just a Facebook friend,
you know, like, I don't actually

393
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,960
believe it or not.
And I'm admitting this now.

394
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,120
I, I don't know how many
Facebook people I have now, but

395
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,840
let's say it's 3000, I don't
have 3000 friends, you know, so

396
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,800
I promise those people aren't
all my friends.

397
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,520
But yeah, I remember talking
with you about that.

398
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,320
And, and we got into talking
about, you know, there were so

399
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,520
many problems during COVID with,
with people not knowing what to

400
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:21,440
do with themselves, financial
issues, all kinds of terrible

401
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,480
things, you know, that happened.
So I'm guessing your in mail,

402
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,720
your inbox became rather full.
Well, and it it, it wasn't just

403
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,120
COVID.
This industry is extremely

404
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,320
difficult for people, extremely
hard on their mental health as

405
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,320
well as physical health and has
been for a very long time.

406
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,360
Everything was of course exasper
exacerbated by COVID.

407
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,840
But the CDC statistics on
suicide, which came out pre

408
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,400
COVID, the last ones came out
pre COVID shows entertainment,

409
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,000
sports, media and the arts are
grouped together as an

410
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:05,120
occupation and as an industry.
And it has the third highest

411
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,600
suicide rate for men and the
fifth highest suicide rate for

412
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:14,040
women of all occupations.
So these issues existed in the

413
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,920
industry before COVID.
COVID certainly exacerbated it

414
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,160
for everyone in all parts of the
industry.

415
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,440
And the after effects continue
when the film industry, the

416
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,560
strike of course, has just
doubled and and tripled and

417
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,480
quadrupled the effects of the
pandemic on the folks in the

418
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,680
film industry and other changes
going on.

419
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,320
So, you know, we talked about
starting our mental health

420
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,560
initiative pre pandemic.
We realized something needed to

421
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,040
be done and the conversation
worldwide was beginning to be a

422
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,880
little freer, open up a little
more about mental health, and we

423
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,680
felt it was time for that to
happen in our industry as well.

424
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,360
I, I want to spend a lot of time
talking about this, but I feel

425
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,920
like we've started from the end
and, and I want to kind of go

426
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,240
back first.
So one thing I don't know.

427
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,760
And, and I think because you've
been involved as a like a

428
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,400
director of these organizations,
whether it's Ester or behind the

429
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:19,560
scenes, I, you know, I tend to
forget that you were actually a

430
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,960
lighting person before all of
that stuff.

431
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,800
And, and I completely forgot
until looking at your resume

432
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,880
again yesterday when I was going
over notes for the show and

433
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,920
stuff that you were at San Diego
stage.

434
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,360
And, and you know, I don't
remember if I met you back then.

435
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,920
I doubt it but but I completely
forgot about that whole part of

436
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,480
you that you are actually a
lighting person 1st and and all

437
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,760
of this stuff became sort of a a
second and now primary career

438
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,120
for you obviously.
So did you go to college to be a

439
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,960
lighting person?
I went to college to be a ballet

440
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,880
dancer.
Interesting.

441
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,720
I received my degree in ballet,
but I went to a very interesting

442
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,360
program.
The concept of it was that your

443
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,160
first two years of college and
your last two years of high

444
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,240
school were basically repetitive
of each other, so it combined

445
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,720
those into two years.
So I left high school after my

446
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,080
sophomore year and did a four
year college program.

447
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,400
At the end of two years, I got a
GE degree and then I could take

448
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,440
anything I wanted rather than
having to worry about fulfilling

449
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,440
requirements for math science.
So I took lighting and stage

450
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,160
management and all that type of
thing in addition to the ballet

451
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,840
curriculum.
And then I danced professionally

452
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,920
for just a year when I got out
of college and stopped because

453
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,400
of injuries.
And I spent a year, year and a

454
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,760
half working for a gentleman who
was a theater consultant, but he

455
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,640
was also the lighting director
for the San Diego Civic Light

456
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,280
Opera and he was the production
manager for the San Diego

457
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,480
Symphony.
So I, and I stayed, I stage

458
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,960
managed the Symphony on and off
for, oh, I don't know, about a

459
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:04,560
decade I would say.
And he closed down his practice.

460
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,280
I went to work for San Diego
Stage and continued to work in

461
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,840
lighting all around San Diego.
I did a lot of lighting for

462
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:17,880
dance, ballet, modern, jazz,
etcetera, and some musicals and

463
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,720
you know, that type of thing
assisted at the Old Globe

464
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,400
Theatre, whatever I could get in
addition to my full time job at

465
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,440
at San Diego Stage.
And one day a gentleman named

466
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,000
Glenn Becker from Grand Stage in
Chicago walked in the door and

467
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,000
said I have this idea for an
association for a trade

468
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,840
association.
And there were three companies

469
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,760
that really put all of that
together, put that first initial

470
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,480
meeting together, which was
Grand Stage Bash and San Diego

471
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,680
Stage.
And that's how I got involved

472
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,320
with what was initially the the
Theatrical Dealers Association

473
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,160
and then became ESTA.
Right, didn't Didn't Jimmy Ray

474
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,240
Hutton get involved pretty early
on too at Cal Stage?

475
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,560
Jimmy Ray used to be at San
Diego stage and then he started

476
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,280
California Stage.
Of course, yeah.

477
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,240
There were about, we had a
formation meeting in Las Vegas

478
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,320
in November of 1987 and there
were 25 companies, 25 dealers

479
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,560
from around the country that
were there and those were the

480
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,400
original founding members.
Interesting.

481
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,280
Yeah, and the and the founding
was based on what need.

482
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,400
Well, you know, there were a
number of needs.

483
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,000
Insurance was a really big issue
for dealers at the time.

484
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,040
In those days, there was a
little more of an adversarial

485
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,680
relationship with manufacturers
and I think there was some

486
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,280
thought about, you know, sort of
banding together, which really

487
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,640
never, you know, never came to
fruition because we learned we

488
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,480
could talk to them.
But the other thing was learning

489
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,520
that we could share information
about business questions and all

490
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,920
kinds of things and that it
would benefit everyone and not

491
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,360
hurt anyone.
Sharing that information,

492
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,440
actually educating each other
made for a much stronger, more

493
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,720
profitable industry.
And it was that idea that took

494
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,160
hold and people realized that by
working together.

495
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,840
And that's what actually led to
things like the technical

496
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,240
standards program and the
Entertainment Technician

497
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,200
certification program, etcetera.
Such, such an important decision

498
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,920
to make because I think what,
and I, I had, I don't know if

499
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,760
you ever listened to it or
anything, but I had Paul Vincent

500
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,080
on recently as well.
And he said something very

501
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,120
similar where it was like, you
know, initially we were going to

502
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,800
puff up our chests and go
against the manufacturers.

503
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,200
And then we went, wait a second,
you know, why don't we just

504
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,640
become more friendly and, and
find a way to support each other

505
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,080
better.
And I can just imagine had you

506
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,120
gone the other direction, what
might have happened.

507
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,240
And you know, it's, it's an
interesting concept or an

508
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,400
interesting thought, I guess,
because I talk about this often,

509
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,680
how back then dealers were this
big and manufacturers were this

510
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,200
big.
Now you've kind of flipped the

511
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,200
script a little bit on some of
that where you've got dealers

512
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,240
the size of PRG and Solo Tech
and four wall and upstaging and

513
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,880
Bandit.
And a lot of these companies are

514
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,480
very big now.
And so, so the, the things have

515
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,400
changed a little bit.
And now it's the dealers who

516
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,840
need to try and be nicer to the
manufacturers as opposed to the

517
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,040
the opposite, right?
Some of the manufacturers are

518
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,480
hurting now, you know, or, or
especially during COVID and

519
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,040
stuff.
So, but yeah, obviously ESTA

520
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,200
then went on to become well, so
it was originally the TDA,

521
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,400
right, Theatrical Dealers
Association and then it went on

522
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,600
to become ESTA.
Yeah.

523
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,120
And the transition ESTA is sort
of an interesting one because

524
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,640
what happened is that the
industry, particularly

525
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,960
manufacturers, realized the need
to start to create industry

526
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,800
standards before government
stepped in to create them for

527
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,160
us.
We didn't want people who didn't

528
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,080
know what they were talking
about to create standards.

529
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,680
And so the manufacturers came to
us and said, we think there's a

530
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,200
real need for this program.
We think ESTA is a good home for

531
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,520
it.
TDA is a good home for it.

532
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,520
But we want to be full citizens.
We don't want to be affiliates

533
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,960
or associates.
We want to be full members.

534
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:32,080
And that's what precipitated the
the shift from TDA to ESTA was

535
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,320
that opening up of the
membership to really encompass

536
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,920
all the categories involved and
gave everyone an equal

537
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,880
representation.
I think it also helped with the

538
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,360
funding of it as well, right,
Because manufacturers got

539
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,040
involved in helping to support
the organization as well.

540
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,880
Because this is, you know,
similar to the one that you run

541
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,440
now.
It was based on people

542
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,080
supporting it and funding it and
stuff.

543
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,200
Membership dudes only go so far
for the most part, right?

544
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Yeah.
But especially like for the

545
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,560
technical standards program,
which has no way to bring in

546
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,040
income, it's there for the good
of the industry.

547
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,960
It needs to be supported.
That's right.

548
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,640
So at some point did you like
basically leave the lighting

549
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,760
business and go into the the,
the politics of it all or the

550
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,000
operating organizations or
whatever you want to call that

551
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,720
world?
Well, I got involved with the

552
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,080
Theatrical Dealers Association
from the very beginning, helping

553
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,080
to put together that initial
meeting.

554
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,000
But in 1990, I made the decision
to move to New York to be with

555
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,320
my future and current husband,
John McGraw, who was the owner

556
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,960
of Commissioner Sliding.
And so when I moved, you know,

557
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,320
I, I wasn't going to try and
make a career in New York out of

558
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,080
lighting because everyone in the
world was trying to do that.

559
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,240
I worked for a little while, I
worked for Roscoe and the TDA at

560
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,760
that point hired a part time,
hired me part time as executive

561
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,440
director and eventually that
moved into a full time position.

562
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,199
So that's that's how I made that
transition because the

563
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,080
association had grown enough to
where it actually needed a staff

564
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,800
person to run it.
You never thought about, you

565
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,920
know, putting on the shoes and
starting to dance again or

566
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,159
anything.
No, I No I did not.

567
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,840
I'm sure that I, you know, I've
never been a ballet guy.

568
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,199
I will admit, you know, I'm the
guy that would be dragged by his

569
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,400
ear, you know, to a ballet to
watch it.

570
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,960
So I've never been a big fan of
it, but I do understand how

571
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,480
physically challenging it must
be, You know, just seeing some

572
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,840
of the things that are
happening.

573
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,440
It's like, Oh my goodness, how
do they, how do they do that?

574
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,600
You know, So I, I respect it as
as an art form, but and

575
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,120
certainly, you know, it's, it's
something that you have to fight

576
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,159
through those injuries and, and
I would guess that that shortens

577
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:57,720
a lot of careers, But that's
interesting.

578
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:01,000
I didn't know that that's that's
how you started and that you

579
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
went to school to be in ballet,
not in lighting.

580
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,720
So sort of a good thing that
yeah, it's it's a good thing

581
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,000
that you kind of took that extra
credits, you know, and went

582
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,480
after lighting and stage
management and stuff.

583
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:21,880
So so then, you know, Esther's
going along and how did behind

584
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,600
the scenes come about?
Because that's where I want to

585
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,720
spend most of my time talking is
is because I'm very interested

586
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,440
in what you're doing in behind
the scenes and and it's

587
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,760
important.
So not that Este isn't.

588
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,280
We got, we kept either having
people approach or hearing

589
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,800
stories about industry members
who were in need because they

590
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,040
were facing serious illness or
injury.

591
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,880
And there was also an
educational component that we

592
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,480
thought that the two things, the
charitable component, the

593
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:59,200
educational component really
belonged in A5O1C3 organization

594
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,040
rather than A501C6 trade
association, among other things,

595
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,080
fundraising for a charity.
Obviously if you're AC 3

596
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,360
donations are tax deductible for
individuals, for example.

597
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,400
And it just made sense.
And so we created the, the ESTA

598
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,200
board voted to create the Behind
the Scenes Foundation, but it is

599
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,640
a completely separate entity,
but obviously had very close

600
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,760
ties.
I mean, ESTA, you know, I ran

601
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,640
both organizations from 2005
through the end of 2017.

602
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,840
So very close ties as to his of
course, always been

603
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,400
extraordinarily supportive of
behind the scenes.

604
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,520
And really that early support is
what allowed the charity to get

605
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:44,680
on its feet and get going.
And eventually in the evolution

606
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,520
of the charity, we decided we
really wanted to focus 100% on

607
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,080
the charitable aspect of it.
And so we actually at the time

608
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,760
we're developing an educational
program that we gave to USITT,

609
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,600
which they have continued to
develop.

610
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,440
And we focused 100% because we
realized there was tremendous

611
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:08,200
need out there.
There are a number of industry

612
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,440
assistance organizations who we
work very closely with, but all

613
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,320
of them have their various
criteria.

614
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,840
And we're really the only one
that encompasses every aspect of

615
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,480
the industry from motion
picture, broadcast, any kind of

616
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,280
live event, etc.
And not just the the crews who

617
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,800
are literally on stage, behind
the stage or behind the camera,

618
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,080
but also for the people who work
for the companies that that

619
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,000
design, that manufacture, that
sell, that produce all of the

620
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,000
all of the things we we know and
love.

621
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,760
So we're very, very broad.
We also cover both the US and

622
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,720
Canada.
Interesting, Is there any push

623
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:57,160
to become more global?
We, it's, it's not easy to

624
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,880
become global, global of course,
because of all the rules and

625
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,360
regulations etcetera.
And there are charities in many

626
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,280
other countries that serve those
populations very well.

627
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,640
Yeah.
So we really, we talked about at

628
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,200
one point, but we've really
decided we want to stay focused

629
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,000
on.
Yeah.

630
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,480
There's enough to do.
Yeah.

631
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,000
There's enough problems just in
North America, that's for sure.

632
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,800
Yeah.
So I don't even know where to

633
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,520
start on this because it's such
a big topic.

634
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,000
And, you know, I know a lot of
people who have benefited

635
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,760
through your organization, who
have received, you know, either

636
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,560
financial help or other help
through the organization.

637
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,520
And it's so incredibly
important.

638
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,920
And so I mean, can you tell me
like maybe get into some of the

639
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,640
not necessarily individual
stories because obviously that's

640
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,960
all private, but types of
situations that have maybe come

641
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,480
to you and you've managed to
help people through, you know, a

642
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,600
hard time or whatever it is.
Sure.

643
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,920
Yeah, the the charity really has
two main programs, if you will.

644
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,360
One is our granting program and
the other is the mental health

645
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,960
initiative.
So on the granting side, there

646
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,360
are two kinds of grants that we
offer.

647
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,000
So the first is our what we call
our basic needs grants and this

648
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,320
is for entertainment technology
professionals and that's a a

649
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:25,560
broad overarching term who are
seriously ill or injured or if

650
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,800
they have an immediate dependent
family member such as a spouse,

651
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,840
a partner, a minor dependent
child who's seriously ill or

652
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,560
injured and that's putting a
financial strain on the family.

653
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,240
So we will step in to assist
with basic living expenses,

654
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:46,000
things like rent or mortgage,
utilities, food, you know those

655
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,640
types of things or medical
expenses.

656
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:52,160
We help a lot of people with
either doctor bills,

657
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:57,800
prescriptions, physical therapy,
insurance, melt health insurance

658
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,280
coverage, you know, if they need
help paying premiums.

659
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,160
We don't aren't able to grant a
lot of money to anyone person,

660
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,880
but it's really designed as a
bridge.

661
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,000
So you have.
A lot of people, for example,

662
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,120
who, you know, are diagnosed
with cancer or some sort of

663
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,400
disease and they're going to be
out of work maybe while they

664
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,480
have treatment and, you know,
need some help paying those

665
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,960
bills because it's most people
in this industry don't have a

666
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,760
significant nest egg saved up
for a rainy day because they're

667
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,120
living paycheck to paycheck.
And you know, even those who

668
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,880
have health insurance, there's a
lot of catch 20 twos in health

669
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,440
insurance.
For example, union members who

670
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,880
are paying into health insurance
have to bank a certain number of

671
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,480
hours every quarter.
And if they're I'll or injured

672
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,600
and can't bank those, they risk
losing their health insurance.

673
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,360
So.
How?

674
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,120
How quickly does that happen?
How quickly do they take your

675
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,240
health insurance away?
Just depends.

676
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,400
It really depends.
It can be.

677
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,480
It's not immediate, but if
someone is ill or injured for

678
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,120
lengthy period of time, it can
become an issue for them.

679
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:04,320
That's a problem.
But we're really designed or

680
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,560
let's say someone is needs to go
on either short term or long

681
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,720
term disability, we try to to
bridge that gap between when

682
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:13,840
their earnings have ended and
when disability kicks in.

683
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,560
And unfortunately, disability is
just a nightmare in this

684
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,720
country, especially long term
disability.

685
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,960
We've had people who can't get
out of a hospital bed that have

686
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,600
been turned down for disability
and you have to hire a lawyer

687
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,520
and you have to appeal it.
So almost everyone is turned

688
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,200
down initially, but it's just
designed to take some of that

689
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,440
burden off of someone who's
already got enough on their

690
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,200
plate because they're dealing
with illness or injury and to,

691
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,440
you know, to assist them to take
some of that worry off.

692
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,480
And we've helped so many people,
a lot of people, this is a very

693
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,120
difficult injury industry and
people in terms of injuries,

694
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,520
right?
It's a hard physical injury.

695
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,880
So we see a lot of injuries,
shoulders, backs, knees, you

696
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,800
know, you name it, hips.
So lots of people who are having

697
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,240
surgery, you know, I need time
to recuperate kind of thing.

698
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,080
It's not because people are
maniacs or anything.

699
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,280
It's just that, you know, it's
that show man must go on

700
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,720
mentality and there's always a
way to get it done.

701
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:22,800
And somebody needs to climb the
Truss and and take care of this

702
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,120
thing.
And you know, we're so willing

703
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,640
to do the impossible to make
something happen in our

704
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,760
industry.
So, you know, and I always say

705
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,800
things like that, like if, if
you want it done, you know, talk

706
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,960
to one of these people over
here, you know, they know what

707
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,400
they're doing.
It's, it's more, we see more

708
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,360
injury from years of wear and
tear than actual accidents on

709
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,160
the job.
And we cover, it doesn't matter

710
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,760
if there's an accident on the
job or an injury on the job or

711
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,400
outside of the job.
We've helped people who've been

712
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,000
hit by cars and you know, that
kind of thing doesn't have to be

713
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,760
job related, but it is a lot of
it is, is that wear and tear on

714
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,000
people?
No question.

715
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,560
And of course, unexpected
illness, diagnosed with cancer

716
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,240
or heart attack or stroke or
that type of thing.

717
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,920
Yeah.
Do you focus on education at

718
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,440
all?
Like, because I, you know,

719
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,000
whether it's the injuries that
we just talked about, you know,

720
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,000
if you go to a typical rock
concert, for example, and look

721
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,560
at the stagehands, look at some
of the people rolling cases off

722
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,880
of trucks or whatever, we're not
the healthiest bunch sometimes.

723
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:40,040
And so, you know, education on
lifestyle, education on, you

724
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,960
know, even simple things like,
OK, every morning at 6:00 in the

725
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,000
morning, get off the bus and go,
do you know, jumping jacks or

726
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,280
something?
I don't know what it is.

727
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,760
But you know, like I know
personally myself, the healthier

728
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,120
I get and the less I weigh, the
less knee injuries and ankle

729
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,080
injuries and hip injuries I get,
you know, and versus how it used

730
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,600
to be when I was 40 lbs heavier,
so.

731
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,200
You know, we're starting to do
that.

732
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,280
I'm glad you brought it up.
We're starting to do that with

733
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:13,040
the Wellness Lounge at LDI and
we launched that last year and

734
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,800
we're repeating it again this
year.

735
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,400
And what we've done is we've got
three days of short 20 to 30

736
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,560
minute presentations all about,
well, there's all kinds of

737
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,880
different aspects.
Last year, Eddie Raymond offered

738
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,840
two sessions about sleep and why
sleep is so important and what

739
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,760
happens to your brain and your
body if you don't get enough of

740
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:34,880
it.
And those weren't very well

741
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,720
attended.
A session on nutrition.

742
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:40,040
Luther Bell is doing how to eat
better on the road.

743
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,840
Even if when you're you're
eating from a gas station or a

744
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,160
711, there are ways you can
still take care of yourself.

745
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,200
But a simple David Linscombe
from ETC leads a simple cup of

746
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,720
coffee.
Yoga, we call it morning.

747
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,200
It's literally chair yoga in 20
minutes.

748
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,400
What you can do to get your body
off to a good start.

749
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:03,760
We had a session on meditation,
so a number of different types

750
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:09,280
of sessions designed to really
give people some self-care tips

751
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,240
about how they can improve their
physical health and their mental

752
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,280
health.
You know, and it's funny because

753
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,680
I know, like, again, most of us
are tough guys in this industry

754
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,400
or tough women or whatever it
is.

755
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,560
But you know, you hear things
like you should meditate or you

756
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,960
should stretch more.
You should do yoga in the

757
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,160
morning.
You should, you know, eat a

758
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,800
salad every now and then.
And we're like, come on, that's

759
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:34,240
crazy.
You know, I'm eating pizza on

760
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:36,040
the bus after the show or
whatever, right?

761
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:42,240
And it's so important.
And, you know, for my own life

762
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:46,320
and my own self, you know, I've
made so many changes in my, my

763
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,120
own personal and habits and,
and, you know, diet and all of

764
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,960
those things.
And I've seen the results from

765
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,480
it.
And I feel so much, I feel

766
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,920
better at 60 than I did at at
40.

767
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:02,320
And I'm probably many times
healthier at 60 than I was at 40

768
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,640
as well.
And, you know, I had to change

769
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:10,240
otherwise I was headed for, you
know, what's the book Outlive?

770
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,640
I don't know if you've ever read
it or listened to it or anything

771
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,600
but that.
He calls them the Four Horsemen,

772
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,120
which are cancer, heart disease,
diabetes and Alzheimer's.

773
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,920
And you know, you want to avoid
those four at least.

774
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,560
And if you can do that, you'll
probably, you'll probably have a

775
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,960
much healthier like a health
span, not necessarily lifespan.

776
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,920
But if, and I was having this
conversation with someone

777
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:38,120
yesterday, if I'm going to live
to 85, you know, I want to live

778
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,720
to 84 3/4 really healthy and
doing the things I want to do

779
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,120
and then maybe have a short
sickness and die.

780
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,000
But I don't want to be sick for
the last 10 years of my life

781
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,760
with dementia or whatever it is.
So I think.

782
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,280
People are, I think attitudes
are changing.

783
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,440
You're absolutely right about
how that's been, but I think a

784
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,600
lot of people are starting to
understand what taking care of

785
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,920
themselves, the benefits of
taking care of themselves and,

786
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,760
and what that does in terms of
changing their lives and, and

787
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:09,720
their outlook.
And all that.

788
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:13,000
But we both go to LDI and then
we see friends that in many

789
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,520
cases I've known for 40 years
and I'm just looking at them and

790
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,840
I'm thinking, please make
changes in your life.

791
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,040
And you can't get too preachy,
even though every once in a

792
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,440
while I do on the podcast,
sometimes in person with people.

793
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,440
And you know, I just, I want
everybody to live a long, happy

794
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,240
life is what it comes down to.
I.

795
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:39,200
Think that the younger
generation, he's placing more

796
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,600
value on work life balance, on
taking care of themselves.

797
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,480
I do think there's a
generational shift in attitude

798
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,360
that is starting to happen.
Yeah, I would agree.

799
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,160
And yeah.
Yeah, I would agree.

800
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,240
And I, I think a lot of the
younger people today, like even,

801
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,080
you know, if you look at people
on Instagram and stuff, they

802
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,720
they're putting a big priority
on how they look and, and I

803
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:03,120
think how they feel as well.
And you see a lot more things

804
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,800
about good food and exercise and
healthy living and organic

805
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,880
eating and blah, blah, blah.
So but you know, for me, a lot

806
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:19,040
of the problems in our industry
seem to focus less than they

807
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,440
need to on education.
Like let's deal with the the

808
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,840
problem after it happens versus
why don't we avoid it happening.

809
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:31,960
And so I'm glad that behind the
scenes is getting involved in

810
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,720
some of that stuff.
I think it's important.

811
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,640
And you know, you said something
that I just want to come back to

812
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,120
for a minute about if you need
something done, you ask someone

813
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,520
in the industry.
And our folks are so used to

814
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:52,240
solving everyone else's problems
and being the go to people that

815
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:59,960
when something does happen to
them, they are too slow to ask

816
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:01,840
for help themselves.
True.

817
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,480
And it's something that we see
with the grants is that people

818
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,320
often wait until they're in
really dire circumstances to

819
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,720
come and ask for help because
they're reluctant to.

820
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,040
But when they wait that long, it
becomes much harder for us and

821
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,000
for any of the other assistance
organizations to help.

822
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:27,040
So one of the messages we'd like
to get out to people is don't

823
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,240
wait until you're about to be
evicted.

824
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,200
Don't wait until you're about to
be foreclosed on your home or

825
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,200
until your utilities are going
to be turned off.

826
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,320
If you get injured, reach out
for help.

827
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,840
If you know you're going to have
surgery next month, it's not too

828
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,600
early to reach out and say, hey,
I'm going to have surgery, I'm

829
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,720
going to be out of work for
three months, can I apply?

830
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,120
It's much easier for us to
assist when there's a little bit

831
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,800
of.
Yeah, Well, I want to get into

832
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,600
some of the details of that too,
because like you already said,

833
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,000
basically you can only give out
so much money to each individual

834
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,640
because there are a lot of
individuals and you're you're

835
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,280
run on, on people's generosity.
You know, how much funding you

836
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:08,960
get is how much funding you
give.

837
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,400
And so obviously the industry
needs to do a better job of, of

838
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:18,720
supporting behind the scenes.
I know there are other there are

839
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:23,280
other charities now and you
know, my podcast supports one of

840
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,400
them just because it's how it
got put together.

841
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,280
But and I think you and I talked
after the fact, after we did it

842
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,240
with this coffee thing that we
do with Geezers Grind Coffee and

843
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:41,360
it supports Roby backstage.
But you know how so like I know

844
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,560
some people who just keep
falling back off the wagon, back

845
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,520
off the wagon.
They're either, you know,

846
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,720
addicted to drugs or they're
Alcoholics or they're just, they

847
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:54,200
cause themselves mayhem over and
over again.

848
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,880
And I know one guy in particular
who goes from living in a nice

849
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,400
apartment to living in his car
to living on the road on tour

850
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,600
for six months to back living in
his car.

851
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,760
And sadly, like within that,
there's so many problems that

852
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,800
for some reason are not being
addressed or there's just not

853
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,400
enough education or whatever it
is.

854
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,320
But like, first of all, if I'm
out making 1002 thousand a week,

855
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:26,560
whatever the numbers are these
days on a tour and I'm being fed

856
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,200
every day and I'm being housed
every night, I'm not spending

857
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,480
money on that stuff.
Why can't I at least find a way

858
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,800
to smooth things out so that
money will sustain me if I don't

859
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,840
have work for three months when
I get back home?

860
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,920
And so the question that I'm
building up to here, sorry I'm

861
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:47,000
spending so much time explaining
it, but what do you do about

862
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,600
repeat offenders?
So someone comes to you, gets a

863
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,680
grant, you help them get out of
their car, back into an

864
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,960
apartment, and six months later
they come back to you and say

865
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,160
I'm in my car again, I need more
money.

866
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,040
How do you handle that type of a
situation?

867
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,480
I want to address a few things
here.

868
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:13,160
One is that so almost all of the
industry charities work together

869
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,520
on a regular basis.
Robe has not joined that group

870
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,440
of charities, but we work daily
with the Entertainment Community

871
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,440
Fund, the Motion Picture and
Television Fund, Music Cares,

872
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,720
the Will Rogers Foundation and
the AFC up in Canada, and we all

873
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:30,000
work together to assist clients.
Since we're all limited in how

874
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,760
much we can do.
By working together we can

875
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,880
provide more and some of the
larger organizations

876
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,400
Entertainment Community Fund,
Music Cares, Motion Picture and

877
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,640
Television fund have extensive
programs.

878
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,920
They have financial literacy
programs right which try to help

879
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,240
people learn how to manage their
finance better.

880
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,880
They they have treatment
programs.

881
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,600
Entertainment Community Fund has
a wonderful program.

882
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,680
Well, they will provide case
management, long term case

883
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,680
management to someone who is
dealing with any kind of a

884
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,600
substance use issue from helping
place people in a, in a rehab

885
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,280
facility to managing, you know,
helping to manage once they get

886
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,320
out.
So there are tremendous

887
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,360
resources available to industry
people and part of it is making

888
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,840
sure that the industry knows
those resources.

889
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:29,640
Are they and we, because we all
refer to each other, that helps

890
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,800
is, you know, if if someone
applies to us and I know that

891
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,880
they have an issue, I can refer
them, you know, to the

892
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,040
appropriate organization.
So it's really the industry

893
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,160
working together to help
everyone, you know, as much as

894
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,680
possible.
We're a very small charity by

895
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,440
comparison.
Now those other charities, one

896
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,120
of the reasons that they're much
bigger is going back to the

897
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:56,040
fundraising thing, because they
also help performers, they tend

898
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,360
to get big name stars
fundraising for them.

899
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,760
But because we only assist the
backstage people, our

900
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,080
fundraising is really, you know,
as we like to say one bake sale

901
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,920
at a time.
It's very much, you know, we're

902
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:14,000
entirely funded by the industry,
for the industry and, and

903
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,680
fundraising is frankly more
difficult because we don't have

904
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:23,080
those stars signing on.
But it is, it's really working

905
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,720
with everyone to provide.
There is a lot of good education

906
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:27,640
out there.
We wish there was more.

907
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,160
We wish everyone had financial
education from a very young age.

908
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,800
So I can't tell you the number
of people we see who earn 6

909
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,280
figure salaries and don't have a
dime saved.

910
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,680
It's and that's really.
Frustrating a ton of those

911
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,040
people.
Yeah, yeah.

912
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,360
It's really frustrating.
So we do wish there was better

913
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,960
education, but there there is a
fair amount out there and there

914
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,920
are work programs.
Entertainment community has a

915
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,160
wonderful work program.
So if you're in a downtime

916
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,200
between jobs, they can help you
identify, you know, temporary

917
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,160
jobs, you can find that kind of
thing.

918
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:04,760
So there's a lot of really good
stuff out there and we're trying

919
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,120
to do a lot of work,
particularly in the area of

920
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,320
substance use.
We have a wonderful task group

921
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:16,720
where we have our clinical
advisor, if you will, is the

922
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:19,000
head of addiction Services for
the Entertainment Community

923
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,840
Fund.
And we've had other clinicians

924
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,960
specializing addiction join us
over the last couple of years.

925
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:29,160
And then our task group members
are all people in recovery, well

926
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,360
known people in the industry in
recovery, some of them in short

927
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,840
term, some of them in long term
who are very open about the

928
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,480
issues that they faced and very
willing to share their

929
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,680
experience, their lived
experience with others in the

930
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,760
industry.
And it's a remark important.

931
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,680
People, yeah, that that part is
important, obviously.

932
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:53,280
Yeah, simple things like they,
they produced a document which I

933
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,240
think is really terrific of.
They have all been in the

934
00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:00,000
situation of in this industry,
you get your job at the bar,

935
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,680
That's where you get your next
job, right, Is you got to go to

936
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,640
the bar after working and
socialize and that's where you

937
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,680
get.
But what happens if you feel

938
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,960
like you need to do that, but
you're in recovery and you don't

939
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,200
want to come out of recovery?
Or David Linscombe did a whole

940
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,040
section on what happens when you
have to take clients to dinner

941
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,840
and they expect you to drink.
In some cultures it's actually

942
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,000
almost required.
How do you deal with that?

943
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:27,280
And this is just, excuse me,
their tips and tricks for how

944
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,480
they have managed this over the
years and it's very helpful.

945
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,560
Well, I have something to add to
that.

946
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:39,960
Imagine being at LDI and
deciding you don't want to spend

947
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,720
all night at the Circle Bar at
the Hard Rock anymore.

948
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:46,200
You know, because I, I
consciously did that.

949
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,320
I don't know, eight years, seven
years ago, I don't even remember

950
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,560
when it was, but maybe even 10
or 12 years ago.

951
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,600
But I was just like, you know,
I've been doing this every LDI,

952
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,960
every night of LDI for 20 years.
I just don't want to do it

953
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,440
anymore.
And so I'd be like, OK, got to

954
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,800
go to the bathroom.
I'll be right back and boom, I'm

955
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,960
up to my hotel room.
And you know, I'd take some hell

956
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,120
for it the next day or whatever,
but I don't care.

957
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,760
I felt better at my morning
meetings, you know, and plus

958
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:17,680
today I don't drink hardly at
all.

959
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,600
Like a couple glasses of wine is
a big night for me, you know, So

960
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,440
it loses its appeal, that's for
sure.

961
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,520
And.
David Linscombe talks very

962
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:32,760
movingly about the very first
LDI he had to go to in recovery.

963
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,680
And he was terrified hard.
And someone advised him to find

964
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:42,240
an ally, to find someone who
would assist him through that

965
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,920
period.
And he did, and it proved to be

966
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,880
an enormous benefit to him.
Yeah, Well, I think the words

967
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,360
getting around like we're
becoming inch by inch a little

968
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,680
bit healthier.
You know, again, there's still a

969
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,120
lot of people, and I won't
mention names and embarrass

970
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,680
anyone, but there's a lot of
people that I look at and they

971
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,240
need to make some lifestyle
changes or, you know, the future

972
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,840
is not going to be as long and
happy as it should be.

973
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:15,480
And you know, it's sad for that,
but yeah, no, it's an important

974
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,960
topic.
The whole sobriety thing and

975
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,200
healthy living and yadda yadda
yadda.

976
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,920
Just gonna do a plug that
currently the task group is

977
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:29,120
working on a webinar which we'll
be offering sometime in the

978
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:34,480
fourth quarter, which is about
why and and it's focused on

979
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,160
dealing with substance abuse in
the workplace.

980
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,840
But it talks about why you would
want to help someone and the

981
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,080
fact that recovery is possible
and these people can become

982
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,920
productive helping members of
society and of the of the

983
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:53,120
workplace and how you go about
help some helping someone.

984
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,360
And it's just filled with lots
of good tips because most people

985
00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:00,840
who have to, especially people
in leadership positions who have

986
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:05,880
to deal with someone who works
with or for them, who is dealing

987
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,000
with subsidies problem, have had
no training.

988
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,320
This goes back to the education.
I've had no training on what to

989
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,680
do, on how to approach the
person, on what kinds of

990
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,480
resources to offer them, and the
purpose of this is to give them

991
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,360
a start to give them some ideas
on how to approach that

992
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,280
situation.
So when is that webinar?

993
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:25,640
It's fourth quarter, I think you
said.

994
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:26,800
We are.
Yeah, we don't.

995
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,720
Have so it's not scheduled.
Just finishing, we're just

996
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:32,880
finishing up the script.
We actually did a, a test

997
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,920
presentation in the winter for
an invited group.

998
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,160
They gave us some wonderful
comments about the structure of

999
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,760
it and we've gone back and
retooled some of it and we're

1000
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,600
going to be doing rehearsal in
another couple weeks and if all

1001
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,800
goes well then we will start to
roll it out in the the fourth

1002
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,000
quarter.
Well, please send me information

1003
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,760
on it and we'll be happy to
share it on our socials and

1004
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,800
stuff as well and, and get
people signing up for it.

1005
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,840
But I want to go back to a
question that I asked you.

1006
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,760
So the guy who is living in his
car and you support him and help

1007
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,200
him get into an apartment.
He goes out on tour with the.

1008
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,040
Rolling Stones for another three
or four months comes back.

1009
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,760
He spent all the money while he
was on the road and within a

1010
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,320
couple of weeks of being back
home, he's living in his car

1011
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,280
again and calls you and says,
Lori, what do I do?

1012
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,360
Well, so let me make one thing
clear and that is that we are

1013
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,400
unable to assist people due to
lack of work.

1014
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,480
We're too small a charity.
So our focus is on assisting

1015
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,760
those who are dealing with
serious illness or injury.

1016
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,760
And there are times when some of
the other charities are able to

1017
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,520
assist, like during the strike
they got some special grants.

1018
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,840
But for the most part, that is
everyone's focus.

1019
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:54,640
And so, you know, you try to
have a conversation with people

1020
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:59,560
about putting together a rainy
day fund and, and helping that.

1021
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,960
But you do, I mean, we even
find, for example, people who,

1022
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,560
let's say they have been injured
to the point where they're going

1023
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:09,360
to be going on permanent
disability and yet they're

1024
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,760
maintaining the same lifestyle
that they had when they were

1025
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,920
working and earning 6 figure
incomes.

1026
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,680
And so it's a very difficult
conversation, but it's one you

1027
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:23,440
have to have about looking at
your change circumstances and

1028
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,840
coming to face the reality of
those change circumstances.

1029
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,600
Yeah.
And maybe you need to move into

1030
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,480
a less expensive place or even a
less expensive city.

1031
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,440
You can't eat out every night of
the week or go to Starbucks

1032
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,400
every single day or, you know,
those kinds of things.

1033
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,880
So it is it's trying to get
people to to face reality.

1034
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,360
It is not easy to do, but there
is a limit to how much any of

1035
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:52,320
the charities can do.
And for us, our focus really was

1036
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,760
on the people who are seriously
ill or injured.

1037
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,800
Now we, we do have people where
our grants are designed to be

1038
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:03,240
one time grants, but we will
occasionally do another grant if

1039
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,360
someone, for example, we know
their recovery is likely to take

1040
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,880
longer.
We have a gentleman who had an

1041
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:14,040
amputation and he's come back to
us and permanent disability.

1042
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,960
He's he's been trying to get on
permanent disability.

1043
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,440
It keeps getting delayed because
that's how disability works.

1044
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,080
And he's in a very difficult
place because he's not capable

1045
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,920
of earning his living right now.
So, yeah, you know, we did

1046
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:31,240
another grant to assist him, but
it's it's really, these are

1047
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,680
designed As for all the
charities.

1048
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,720
These are designed not to
support people.

1049
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,520
This is not another source of
income.

1050
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,760
Yeah, yeah.
This is to get you through a

1051
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,840
difficult place.
Yeah, well, I'm sure other than

1052
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,360
fundraising, I would think that
saying no is probably the

1053
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,640
hardest part about your job.
Oh, absolutely.

1054
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,920
Because people come to you in
great distress.

1055
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,880
It is absolutely an extremely
difficult part because the

1056
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,280
opposite is so true.
It's so rewarding when you can

1057
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,160
call someone and say, yeah,
we're gonna pay your rent this

1058
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:03,520
month.
Yeah.

1059
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,120
And you know, the reactions you
get are just so.

1060
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,400
Crying.
A lot of crying I guess, yes.

1061
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,160
But it is, yeah, it's very
difficult because people don't

1062
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,880
necessarily want to take
ownership of of their actions.

1063
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:22,160
I want to mention one other
grant that we do, and this is

1064
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,400
for entertainment technology
professionals.

1065
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,440
We are unable to offer it to
family members, but specifically

1066
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,320
for the professionals in our
industry, if they want to begin

1067
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,840
to see a therapist or if they
need to go into addiction rehab,

1068
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,480
we can assist with the cost of
those.

1069
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,400
It's called our counseling,
counseling grants.

1070
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:47,480
And we again, they're limited in
amount, but we can generally

1071
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,880
get, you know, whether it's
paying a copay for a therapist

1072
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,280
or if they don't take insurance,
you know, getting them X number

1073
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,480
of sessions, at least get them
started on that journey.

1074
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,520
And people have found it
extremely helpful.

1075
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:02,480
That's fantastic.
Yeah.

1076
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,640
I can't remember the
organization that we just had a

1077
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:15,920
few weeks ago who has therapists
available at shows like

1078
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,240
Coachella.
Yeah, that's wonderful for the

1079
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,600
big shows that can afford to do
that.

1080
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,280
It's fabulous.
Now obviously the majority of

1081
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,360
events can't, can't do that.
One of the things though, that

1082
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,080
we did when we did our survey of
the industry in 2019, we heard a

1083
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,720
common refrain and it was how
frustrated people in the

1084
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,480
industry were by not being able
to find a therapist who

1085
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,600
understood anything about
working in the industry.

1086
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:43,720
Yeah.
Right.

1087
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,040
They didn't want to go in and
spend their time educating the

1088
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:49,720
therapist.
They didn't want to be asked if

1089
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,400
they could get tickets for them
for the the concert the next

1090
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,800
night.
Or, you know, we had one person

1091
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,480
say that who worked in the film
industry and say that they're,

1092
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,960
the therapist said if they get
anxious during the day, just to

1093
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:02,120
take an hour off and go for a
walk in the middle of the

1094
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:03,400
afternoon.
Oh my goodness.

1095
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,880
You know, so we created
something called the

1096
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,000
Entertainment Industry Therapist
Finder, and it only includes

1097
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,160
therapists that have a knowledge
of the industry, either because

1098
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,160
they've already had clients who
were professionals in the

1099
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,880
industry, So in effect, they've
been educated by those clients,

1100
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,760
or they used to work in our
industry themselves.

1101
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,800
And we've discovered that the
mental health field is an

1102
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:28,080
extraordinarily popular second
career for people from our

1103
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,560
industry.
There are lots of therapists out

1104
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,000
there who spent a lot of years
working in the industry

1105
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,200
themselves.
So when someone goes to the

1106
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:40,080
Finder to search, they know that
the person is already going to

1107
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,800
have a pretty good basic
understanding of the lifestyle,

1108
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,120
the hours, the stresses, the
pressures, you know, all that

1109
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,280
type of thing.
And it it really saves a lot of

1110
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,320
time, a lot of energy, because
they can start to get right into

1111
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,800
what their issues are.
Yeah, no, that makes perfect

1112
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,080
sense.
I mean, it's, you know, it's

1113
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:03,920
massive.
That's such a massive thing.

1114
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,600
Sorry, I'm trying to look this
up.

1115
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:10,480
It's Chris Lyle is part of the
organization and I've just

1116
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,960
forgotten the name of his
organization sadly.

1117
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,080
There are touring career
workshop.

1118
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,800
Workshop, yeah.
Touring Touring Career Workshop.

1119
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,240
Yeah, it's great.
And the other thing along those

1120
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,560
lines that we've tried to do,
you probably know that we're

1121
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,280
offering mental health first aid
training for the industry,

1122
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,320
right?
And Mental Health First Aid is

1123
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,720
actually a program that was
developed in Australia in 2008

1124
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:37,240
and it's now taught in about 25
countries around the world.

1125
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,400
And the premise of it is very
similar to first aid.

1126
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,040
If you take a first aid course,
you don't come out knowing how

1127
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,280
to diagnose someone.
You're not a doctor, you're not

1128
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,800
going to perform surgery, but
you know how to stabilize

1129
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,680
someone until you can get them
to professional help.

1130
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:53,880
And mental health first Aid is
very similar.

1131
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,520
It's learning how to recognize
the signs and symptoms that

1132
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,640
someone may be having either a
mental health issue or substance

1133
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,800
use issue and how to start a
conversation with them, how to

1134
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:07,800
listen non judge mentally, how
to direct them to appropriate

1135
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,880
professional resources,
etcetera.

1136
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:14,880
And we think it's it's a really
terrific tool for people to

1137
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,320
have.
And we would love to see, you

1138
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,800
know, every film set, every
touring crew, every venue have a

1139
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,120
mental health first aid.
Are there that people can either

1140
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,880
go to for themselves or you
could go to and say, hey, I'm

1141
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,520
sort of worried about, you know,
Pete over there.

1142
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,600
I think maybe he's having some
issues.

1143
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,360
I don't know him very well.
I don't want to approach him,

1144
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,400
but could you maybe start a
conversation with him?

1145
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,240
But just someone who has the
support of management to do what

1146
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:45,080
they're doing.
And we've trained almost 1500

1147
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:46,680
industry people so far.
Wow.

1148
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,960
It is a standard curriculum, but
what we've done is our trainers

1149
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,120
are all entertainment industry
professionals.

1150
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,920
So they put the classes through
the lens of the entertainment

1151
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,200
industry.
And we limit attendance to only

1152
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,280
those who work in the
entertainment industry so that

1153
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:07,480
the conversations are are very
real and very pertinent.

1154
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,360
It's one.
Specific experience.

1155
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,280
Yeah, and people have really
felt they've gotten a lot out of

1156
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,000
those classes.
I remember you mentioning this

1157
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,319
to me before.
I think it was back in, you

1158
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:22,359
know, in during COVID times when
I had this gentleman who I felt

1159
01:08:22,359 --> 01:08:26,920
was going to maybe do himself
some harm and I didn't have time

1160
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:28,920
to take a, a course at that
time.

1161
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,680
I was just like, tell me what to
say to him.

1162
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,640
I want to help this guy.
But I think that's an excellent

1163
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:35,560
program.
So how?

1164
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,800
How did when and how does that
all work?

1165
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,920
So we offer classes, virtual
classes, one to three times a

1166
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,399
month.
We took August off, but we start

1167
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:49,040
up again in September.
I'll post the schedule next week

1168
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,319
for September And people sign
up.

1169
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:57,120
You do about two hours of online
pre work they call it.

1170
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:03,240
And then there's a six hour live
virtual class with a trainer and

1171
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,080
it's extremely interactive.
You go and breakout room

1172
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,439
sometimes there's a lot of
interactive discussion.

1173
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:12,720
So it goes very quickly and at
the end you go back online and

1174
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,560
do about 10 minutes worth of
stuff and then you download your

1175
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,720
certificate saying you're a
mental health first aider and

1176
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,120
it's valid for three years.
And we also do private classes.

1177
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:29,439
So we offer private classes of
groups of 10 to 25 and those can

1178
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,120
be virtual or they can be in
person.

1179
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,960
And I'll just mention for any of
your listeners who are members

1180
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:40,479
of the IATSE, the training trust
Fund will reimburse the cost of

1181
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,200
the class if you take the class
and complete it.

1182
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,600
So, and we have thanks to
Chauvet, we also have a limited

1183
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,040
number of scholarships available
for those who are not going to

1184
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,319
be reimbursed by the IA or by
their companies.

1185
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,400
Very cool.
So you said you're going to post

1186
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:57,880
the schedule.
So where is that?

1187
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:04,080
Where will you post that?
If you go to our website so BTS

1188
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:11,960
help BTS is behind the scenes
help HE lp.org/mhfa for mental

1189
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,240
health first aid.
You will see information about

1190
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,120
the classes, what's involved,
how to register and from there

1191
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,120
you once we get the the
September schedule up because

1192
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,600
our trainers are all working
professionals in the industry,

1193
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,280
right?
Excuse me, we have to wait till

1194
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,400
they get their work schedules
before we can schedule.

1195
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:33,400
Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everything's always a little

1196
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:38,160
flexible in in our world, you
know, I mean it honestly, I talk

1197
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,680
to so many people all the time.
Like, I think it would be

1198
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:43,840
something that I would even do,
you know what I mean?

1199
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,000
Like it.
It's just something that I think

1200
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,520
if you're around a lot of people
and especially a lot of people

1201
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,680
in our industry, in our
industry, it's not that people

1202
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:57,400
are quacky or anything, like
we're not a bunch of gypsies

1203
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,400
like most of the world thinks or
whatever.

1204
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,440
It's just it's an interesting
lifestyle.

1205
01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:07,720
You know, it's a very unusual
lifestyle that lends itself to,

1206
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,680
you know, running into some of
these problems, sometimes

1207
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,520
loneliness and.
Everything.

1208
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:13,880
Lead you down past.
Exactly.

1209
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:15,120
Yeah.
You know there's so many

1210
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,880
stressors in the industry, the
long hours, etc.

1211
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:22,720
And you know if you take first
aid, chances are you may never

1212
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:24,840
actually have to use what you
learned.

1213
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,160
If you take mental health first
aid, you'll find you use it

1214
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,000
every single day in your
interactions with others.

1215
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,960
That makes sense.
In so many different ways, you'd

1216
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,440
be amazed and and some of the
stories I've heard about people

1217
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:42,000
using it in completely
unexpected situations.

1218
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:49,000
So going back to the grants,
what kind of scale are we

1219
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,760
talking about as far as the
number of applications that come

1220
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:54,920
in?
Like are you getting 100

1221
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,680
applications in a month or or
500 applications in a month?

1222
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:02,240
Like is it?
No, it's not that high.

1223
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:07,640
And part of it, I'll tell you a
an interesting dilemma that all

1224
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,640
the charities face.
Part of it is getting the word

1225
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:19,520
out that this help is available
and union members know about us

1226
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,640
because they have a centralized
point of information.

1227
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,840
They read their newsletters,
they go to their union meetings

1228
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:30,320
and all.
For example, the international,

1229
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,160
the IATSE has been wonderful
about getting the word out about

1230
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:35,960
our grants, about our mental
health initiative.

1231
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:39,920
All the locals I've spoken to
many, many locals around the

1232
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,800
country.
It is the non union freelance

1233
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:48,520
population that doesn't have a
central point where they get

1234
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,640
their information.
They don't necessarily go to the

1235
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:55,080
industry trade shows or read the
industry magazines or you know,

1236
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:58,720
that type of thing.
So reaching those people has

1237
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,680
always been the most difficult
thing for all of the assistance

1238
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:04,240
organizations.
How?

1239
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,080
Do we tell them our services are
available to them?

1240
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,280
Well, it's that and then it's
this incredible pride and ego of

1241
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:12,920
people not wanting to ask for
help.

1242
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,120
I would guess is the next
problem as well.

1243
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,960
Yeah, yeah, no, it's an
interesting thing.

1244
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,880
Like you've got money and and
funding available and programs

1245
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:25,560
available to help these people,
but you can't get to them to let

1246
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,160
them know.
It's absolutely.

1247
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:28,280
It's incredible.
Marcel.

1248
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,560
I want to go back before I
forget and and make one comment

1249
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:34,120
because you've mentioned a
couple times when you've tried

1250
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,640
to help this person who you find
is at risk.

1251
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,520
Yeah, there's a lot of
information about suicide

1252
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,920
prevention on our website.
And we joined a program run by

1253
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,800
the Crisis and Suicide Lifeline
and its partners called Be the

1254
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:51,000
1/2.
And we have information on the

1255
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,600
side about the warning signs to
keep an eye out for, because the

1256
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:57,920
more familiar you are with them,
the more likely you are to spot

1257
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,200
them.
And then there are sort of five

1258
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,480
steps that are agreed by all the
experts that you should take if

1259
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:07,280
you're concerned about someone.
But what do they really mean?

1260
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,400
The first one is ask.
And of course, everyone says

1261
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,600
should you?
So what we've done is we've

1262
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:15,400
written some sample guidance and
examples and those are posted on

1263
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,960
the website.
You can download it as a PDF, as

1264
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,160
a PowerPoint.
That literally can be a step by

1265
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,920
step guide to you to help if
you're trying to help someone

1266
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:27,120
through a crisis.
Yeah, yeah.

1267
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,080
I mean, I was.
Like everyone know that that's

1268
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,720
there to use at any time.
Right.

1269
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:35,920
I was just very concerned about
not, you know, again, I don't

1270
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:40,000
even know this person.
So, you know, for me to say the

1271
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:45,120
wrong thing to trigger him, to
make that, you know, effort to,

1272
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:49,440
to off himself, you know, I
didn't want to say or do the

1273
01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:53,080
wrong thing, you know, and, and
that was the biggest thing.

1274
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,320
It wasn't, you know, I, I can
usually talk someone through a

1275
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,400
problem pretty well.
I'm really, I've always said

1276
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,560
I'm, I'm very good at solving
everyone else's problems, just

1277
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,920
not always so good at my own.
But I don't listen to my own

1278
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,520
advice.
But yeah, you know, it's so

1279
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,920
important, like in our industry.
And again, I learned it more

1280
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,440
than I did at any other point in
my career during COVID.

1281
01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:18,200
And it was because I was doing a
weekly Zoom call with people.

1282
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,240
And I'd have people call me
right after the Zoom call and

1283
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,880
say, hey, you know, I know we
were talking about this thing,

1284
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,880
but I've got a real problem.
And would you mind spending 30

1285
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,480
minutes with me?
And I would and I will, you

1286
01:15:29,480 --> 01:15:31,120
know, by the way, I'm putting
this out there right now.

1287
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:34,640
If anybody needs anyone to talk
to and you want to listen to my

1288
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:40,800
dumb a, you know, call me
anytime, I'm happy to to at

1289
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:44,080
least try to help somebody
through a problem or a challenge

1290
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:47,800
that they're having or whatever.
Well, and you know, a big, a big

1291
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,200
part of that and, and this is
the first bit of the guidance is

1292
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,920
you absolutely should ask
someone how they're doing and

1293
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:58,120
really mean it and ask them if
they're thinking about harming

1294
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:02,360
themselves, because all of the
research shows that's not going

1295
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:03,880
to put the idea into someone's
head.

1296
01:16:04,480 --> 01:16:07,120
I've done a couple of
presentations with the executive

1297
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:10,840
director of the Lifeline and
there were two things he said

1298
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,600
that really have stuck with me.
First of all, asking some of the

1299
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:17,640
thing about harming themselves
is not going to put that idea

1300
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,600
into their head.
You're not going to bring it up

1301
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,560
if they, they will have already
thought of it if they're really

1302
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,560
serious.
So don't worry about doing that.

1303
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,200
But asking tells them that you
care and it gives them

1304
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:32,280
permission to open up and it
gives them permission to

1305
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,760
unburden themselves and to talk
about what's going on.

1306
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,400
And that's a big part of it.
If you can learn to listen and

1307
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,560
to listen non judge mentally,
that's a huge, huge way to help

1308
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:44,400
someone.
The other thing he said, which

1309
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,200
really stuck with me, is more
suicides are prevented every

1310
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:52,440
year by someone the person knows
than by a mental health

1311
01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:55,520
professional.
So it means that all of us are

1312
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,600
the first line of defense, if
you will.

1313
01:16:57,720 --> 01:16:59,840
Definitely.
And I completely agree with

1314
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,720
that, by the way.
We're the people who are around

1315
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,680
them and see them every day and
we know that we can see that

1316
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,600
there's a problem developing,
you know, before it's all the

1317
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,640
way at, you know, I'm holding a
gun right now, you know exactly.

1318
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:16,800
You can see it coming.
So as far as applying for a

1319
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,320
grant, what what does that
process look like?

1320
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,920
There is a a formal application
process.

1321
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:29,440
It is a can be a little bit
daunting to people and there's a

1322
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:32,480
few reasons for that.
First of all, of course, we need

1323
01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:36,280
to assure that our all our
donors that we are spending

1324
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:38,200
their money appropriately.
Yeah.

1325
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,480
The other thing that's been
going on is that all of the

1326
01:17:41,480 --> 01:17:45,400
charities have been seeing fake
applications in the last few

1327
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,280
years, fraudulent.
Applications terrible.

1328
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:52,440
So we have to do a lot of
vetting and but part of it is,

1329
01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:54,280
is a really good exercise for
people.

1330
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:56,840
For example, there's a page
where you have to to show your

1331
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,360
monthly budget, and most people
have never sat down and actually

1332
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,400
figured out what that is.
Yeah.

1333
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,720
Really good exercise for people
to understand what their money

1334
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:08,200
is being spent on.
Yeah.

1335
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:12,000
And we require verification,
medical verification of whatever

1336
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,640
the illness or injury is.
So whether that's a letter from

1337
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:18,800
a doctor or a summary of a
hospital visit or whatever it

1338
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:23,280
might be, we do need to see that
we asked for someone's most

1339
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,000
recent copy of their most recent
bank statement, right?

1340
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,680
Because we want to know that
they're not doing a lot of onion

1341
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:31,160
and gambling or that kind of
thing.

1342
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:33,000
Trust me, we've seen that,
right?

1343
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:35,800
Well.
I could imagine, I could imagine

1344
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,640
at one point you've gotten a
call from someone saying, you

1345
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,360
know, and you say what do you
need the money for?

1346
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:44,000
And they say well the new iPhone
13 is out and I got to get that

1347
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,640
because my mine is an iPhone 10
and all my friends have twelves

1348
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,680
and I need to get the 13 you
know.

1349
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,520
So please give me 1000 bucks.
One of the things that we do is

1350
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:58,480
all of our grants are
vendorized, meaning we pay the

1351
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:01,160
landlord, we pay the mortgage
company, we pay the utility

1352
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,320
company, we pay the therapist,
right?

1353
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,360
Because we.
Want to ensure it's spent

1354
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,400
appropriately?
Well, cuz chances are it

1355
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,600
wouldn't be.
There's a reason sometimes

1356
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:14,160
there's a deeper reason that
you're in that position.

1357
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:17,400
That's right.
And yeah, so, yeah, no, that

1358
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:18,840
makes a lot of sense.
So they fill out the

1359
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:20,640
application.
Supporting, they fill out the

1360
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:22,480
application they returned along
with the supporting

1361
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:26,440
documentation and then it goes
to our review committee and they

1362
01:19:26,440 --> 01:19:29,440
generally meet within certainly
within a week of receiving the

1363
01:19:29,440 --> 01:19:34,400
application and they will review
it and they're very diligent.

1364
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,440
They're very dedicated.
It's a wonderful group of people

1365
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,880
who spend a lot of time
reviewing these applications.

1366
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:46,600
Very, very compassionate people.
And they will determine if a

1367
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,320
Grant's going to be awarded, how
much that grant will be and what

1368
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:52,280
it should be used for.
And then I'll coordinate with

1369
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:56,360
the grant recipient immediately.
I can issue payment immediately,

1370
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:01,240
you know, So if it's a check or
however it's done or if they're

1371
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:03,240
putting me directly in touch
with the therapist and I'm

1372
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:06,720
working out the details of the
therapist or I'm doing something

1373
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,680
through an online portal, but
payment can be issued

1374
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:12,080
essentially.
Same day as the grant is

1375
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:14,800
awarded, or within a day or two.
So the whole process is a couple

1376
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,640
weeks maybe.
Yeah.

1377
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,160
I mean, it's much of it is
dependent on someone submitting

1378
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,880
a complete application with all
the sporting documentation.

1379
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:27,160
If we get that, then it's a
quick process.

1380
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,640
Yeah.
If we don't get that, then it

1381
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,440
can dry out for a lot longer in
terms of getting that

1382
01:20:32,440 --> 01:20:34,280
information from people.
Yeah.

1383
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:36,880
But you know, we work with them,
we coach them through the

1384
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:41,600
process as much as possible so
that it's not, not too

1385
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,440
difficult.
Do you still do the Christmas

1386
01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:45,200
cards?
We do.

1387
01:20:45,440 --> 01:20:47,760
That's.
Wonderful, wonderful crop of

1388
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,760
Christmas cards this year.
So for those who don't know,

1389
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:55,400
every year we get designers,
everything from Tony Award

1390
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:59,880
winners to high school students
who design holiday cards for us.

1391
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,680
The only criteria we give them
is that it has to have a go

1392
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:04,640
slide in it, which is of course
our logo.

1393
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:08,120
And all the proceeds, of course,
go to support the work that

1394
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,640
we're doing.
And those are available online

1395
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,520
at BTS help.org holiday cards.
And I've bought them a couple

1396
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:18,400
times and everyone who got them
loved them and thought it was

1397
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:20,400
the most unique card they got or
whatever.

1398
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,440
People outside the industry
specifically.

1399
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,120
But yeah, it's a great program,
the holiday cards, and it's been

1400
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:29,640
going forever.
I mean literally as long as I

1401
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:30,920
can remember since the
beginning.

1402
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:32,640
Of since we started the.
Chair the organization?

1403
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:34,720
Yeah.
Five yeah, we've had wonderful

1404
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:38,000
designs this year's crop is is a
set of absolutely gorgeous

1405
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,200
designs so.
Yeah, going back quickly, just

1406
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:46,080
back to ESTA, you know, how did,
how did ESTA like?

1407
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,960
So I remember ESTA and you might
not know this and I don't know

1408
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,680
if I've ever brought it up to
you, but I remember going to a

1409
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:58,400
few ESTA meetings when you were
doing the fog and smoke thing.

1410
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:04,120
And at the time I was the VP or
President of of Martin and we

1411
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,960
had a fairly large smoke and fog
division in our company.

1412
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:12,480
And so I thought I just had to
show up and hand a check over.

1413
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,200
And then suddenly I got roped
into being in some of these

1414
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,520
meetings and I was absolutely
the wrong person, I will admit,

1415
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:20,880
to be in those meetings.
I'm not very technical.

1416
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,480
I'm probably not the most
patient person in the world or,

1417
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:27,640
or diplomatic.
And so to put me in that

1418
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:32,200
committee was was probably way
more painful for them than it

1419
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:36,240
was for me.
But how has it evolved from

1420
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,440
that?
Because that was probably 1994

1421
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:42,240
or five when I did that.
How?

1422
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:48,680
How did it evolve to where you
were no longer there but most

1423
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,160
recently?
Well, sure, I mean 90.

1424
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:56,640
The program was formed in 94 and
and we were just getting

1425
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,520
started, but here's what the
program is all about.

1426
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:03,480
It's industry experts, so
technical experts coming

1427
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:11,680
together to write standards
that, you know, health and

1428
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,920
safety standards,
interoperability standards,

1429
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:18,280
etcetera.
So it's really, you know, think

1430
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:22,080
about things like DMX or ACN, et
cetera.

1431
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:25,800
Think about outdoor temporary
outdoor structure standards.

1432
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:29,080
It's flying performers.
It's getting the the experts

1433
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:35,600
together to to write a standard
that you know, helps to ensure

1434
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:39,240
a, a safer or more productive
industry, you know, on the

1435
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:41,560
control protocol side.
So not every rental house

1436
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,640
doesn't have a gazillion black
boxes right sitting in their

1437
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:46,760
rental inventory.
On the safety side, it's to

1438
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:50,760
prevent accidents.
You know, the the forensics

1439
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,000
reports for Indiana, both
forensics reports cited the fact

1440
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:55,880
that the standard was not
followed.

1441
01:23:56,360 --> 01:24:00,040
And it's this idea again of
industry coming together to

1442
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,440
create standards, having the
experts in the field create the

1443
01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:06,400
standards.
And the way that American

1444
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:10,360
National Standards accreditation
works is once the standard is

1445
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:13,000
the draft standard is written,
it has to go out to a public

1446
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:16,920
review so that anyone with a
vested interest in the subject

1447
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:21,080
matter can comment on it.
And then those those comments

1448
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:24,480
have to be reviewed in detail by
the task group, by the working

1449
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:28,560
group, and they have to be
responded to Either, you know,

1450
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:30,840
they have to say that's a really
good idea and we're going to

1451
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:33,560
incorporate that into the
standard, maybe make some

1452
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,760
adjustments, or they might say,
we've considered that and we've

1453
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:38,960
rejected that comment and here's
why.

1454
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,320
And they have to offer you a
reason.

1455
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,840
So it's really a consensus
program.

1456
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:50,520
Create consensus standards for
the industry, by the industry.

1457
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:52,840
And so you want to have the
right people in the working

1458
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:54,240
groups.
You don't want to have the guy

1459
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:56,840
who writes the check not sitting
in the working group meeting.

1460
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,200
Yeah, you don't.
Want to have the guy You want to

1461
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,120
have the guy who designs the
machines sitting in the working

1462
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:02,800
group?
Kind of.

1463
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:05,960
Thing I can't remember if I quit
or I was thrown out, but it

1464
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,400
happened pretty quickly.
Whatever.

1465
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:09,560
It was.
I didn't last.

1466
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,520
Any given time, there are
hundreds of people involved in

1467
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,760
the technical standards program
and over the course of its

1468
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:19,160
lifetime probably thousands have
been involved as standards.

1469
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:22,440
You know, a standard will be
worked on and one of the things

1470
01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:26,440
that Angie requires is that
every five years a standard be

1471
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:33,360
reviewed and either gets
reaffirmed or revised or sunset

1472
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,600
basically.
So just depends on what's going

1473
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:37,960
on.
But certainly the work in fog

1474
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:41,280
and smoke has, you know, they've
worked closely with equity,

1475
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,440
establishing testing standards
and all of that.

1476
01:25:44,440 --> 01:25:49,880
And what it did was it it put to
rest a lot of the concerns about

1477
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,200
using atmospheric effects.
You know, it's funny, I just on

1478
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:57,480
one of the Facebook forums for
lighting design or whatever it

1479
01:25:57,480 --> 01:26:03,080
was, I saw a fairly active
conversation happened just a

1480
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:09,440
couple of weeks ago where it was
a relatively new designer or

1481
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,440
lighting tech or whatever it was
who had posted that.

1482
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:16,640
You know, basically we're
getting a lot of feedback from

1483
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:23,920
actors in this play that we're
doing, and have you ever run

1484
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:25,840
into this before?
What should we do?

1485
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,640
Do we need to get rid of the
hazer that we're using?

1486
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:31,000
You know, they don't want us to
use any haze.

1487
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:34,120
They're telling us it's causing
them throat problems and they're

1488
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:36,000
not able to read their lines and
stuff.

1489
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:41,080
And it just went on and on and
on as far as you can imagine.

1490
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:45,040
The comments, everything from
actors or a bunch of prima Donna

1491
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:50,120
poser wannabes and they're just
talking smack all the way to

1492
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,760
here's the real technical
information that you need to

1493
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,840
know.
But the bottom line was it's

1494
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,240
generally safe.
You know, most people are just

1495
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:00,320
overreacting.
They see smoke so they think

1496
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:04,840
it's impacting them like smoke
from a firewood and it's it's

1497
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:06,680
really not.
And there's a.

1498
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,640
Lot of information available on
Essence Technical Standards

1499
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,040
program website about.
That.

1500
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:13,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, that was, again, that was,

1501
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:16,640
I believe the very first
standard they tackled for some

1502
01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:19,680
reason I, you know, and.
Not the very, very early, very

1503
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:22,360
first standard was the wire rope
ladder standard.

1504
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,640
Yes, yes, and.
I'll tell you a very early story

1505
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:30,840
about that.
There was a fatality at a tour

1506
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:36,160
down in Florida and someone sent
us a clipping from a newspaper

1507
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:39,200
that quoted the OSHA inspector
as saying, I don't know what

1508
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:40,600
these wire rope ladder things
are.

1509
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:41,920
We're going to have to look into
that.

1510
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:46,520
And we overnighted the wire rope
ladder standard to that OSHA

1511
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:49,640
inspector and he immediately
wrote us back and he said, thank

1512
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:51,720
you very much.
I can now eliminate that from my

1513
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:52,760
inquiries.
Wow.

1514
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:54,920
Because he.
Saw that it had been built to

1515
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:57,920
the standard.
Wow, that's really cool.

1516
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:00,920
So last topic that I want to
cover.

1517
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:05,280
So a lot of people listening to
this are probably younger, and I

1518
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:07,920
know it's called Geezers of
Gear, but our audience, actually

1519
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,520
the core of our audience, if I
remember correctly, is like 30

1520
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:14,640
to 44 or something like that,
the demographic.

1521
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:20,240
And so a lot of people in that
age group don't remember a

1522
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:24,440
company called Production Arts,
which was run by a couple of

1523
01:28:24,440 --> 01:28:27,560
characters named John McGraw and
Steve Terry.

1524
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:32,600
And the company was ultimately
sold, I believe, in the late

1525
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:37,360
90s, early 2000s to Jerry
Harrison Production Resource

1526
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:41,040
Group.
And I think Steve stayed for a

1527
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:44,720
while at PRG and then went on to
ETC after that.

1528
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:48,120
But John, I believe, as I
recall, 'cause I think he told

1529
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:51,120
me himself that I'm just getting
out of the business and he

1530
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,880
retired.
And so he was one of the smart

1531
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:57,880
and lucky ones.
And so this is, of course,

1532
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:01,920
Laurie's husband, John McGraw.
And honestly, I haven't spoken

1533
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,440
to him since.
So what's he up to?

1534
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:11,240
The sale actually happened in
June of 1998 and he has of

1535
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:14,520
course was active on a number of
boards, including the Gilbert

1536
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:16,520
Helmsley board for a number of
years.

1537
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:25,240
What he has done has allowed me
to do what I do.

1538
01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:29,080
Yeah, he takes care of
everything in our lives so that

1539
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:34,200
I've been able to focus on 1st
ESTA and then behind the scenes

1540
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:37,440
and has allowed me to work the
kind of hours I do and put the

1541
01:29:37,440 --> 01:29:39,760
kind of energy and focus into
what I do.

1542
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:44,440
He has been my supporter in
every possible way that you can

1543
01:29:44,440 --> 01:29:48,760
imagine behind the scenes for
for me and for the

1544
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:51,760
organizations.
Yeah, well, I mean, he was a, he

1545
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,720
was a monster of a human in the
business.

1546
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:59,480
And you know, production arts,
for those who don't know who

1547
01:29:59,480 --> 01:30:03,440
production arts was, you know,
they were the standard, they

1548
01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:08,320
were the gold standard of
lighting in our industry.

1549
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:15,160
I mean, they were just such an
Immaculate, perfectly built

1550
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:18,920
company from a standpoint of,
you know, if, if Production arts

1551
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:24,440
was doing a, a rental or an
install, just basically forget

1552
01:30:24,440 --> 01:30:25,880
about it.
It's going to be perfect.

1553
01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:29,040
It's going to be great.
And their standards were so much

1554
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:32,760
higher than anyone else's.
And I know that because when I

1555
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:36,360
started at Martin and I went to
New York and I went to call on

1556
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:39,160
those guys, Steve Terry put me
through the ringer.

1557
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:44,520
And for the first probably four
or five visits, there was just

1558
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,280
no way he was going to use
anything with a Martin logo on

1559
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:50,680
it because in his mind it just
wasn't up to what it needed to

1560
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:52,400
be.
And he was right.

1561
01:30:52,440 --> 01:30:55,720
I mean, it just wasn't, it
wasn't as good as other stuff

1562
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:56,880
that was out there in the
market.

1563
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,680
And because his standards and,
and John's standards were so

1564
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:02,800
high, we just didn't meet that,
that level.

1565
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:05,040
And eventually we did.
And eventually we started

1566
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:06,360
selling stuff to production
arts.

1567
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:10,360
But I always really looked at
them as the gold standard

1568
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:14,520
company.
And and, you know, I think there

1569
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:18,560
is still a hole in the market
left by them, to be perfectly

1570
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:19,480
honest.
Yeah.

1571
01:31:19,480 --> 01:31:24,000
No, lots and lots of people miss
that company because not only

1572
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,520
did they set the gold standard
in terms of of the product they

1573
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,040
put out, whether it was a rental
product or permanent

1574
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:34,680
installation or whatever, but
they also said it in terms of of

1575
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:38,880
customer service and customer
care and the nurturing of new

1576
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:42,880
talent in the industry and you
know, all of that type of thing.

1577
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:46,200
Yeah, I completely agree with
you, completely agree with you.

1578
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:49,160
So please tell him I said hello.
He probably won't even Remember

1579
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:51,880
Me by this time, but tell him I
said hello.

1580
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,240
And if he ever wants to come on
and talk about how screwed up

1581
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:57,080
the theatrical lighting is today
or whatever, I'm happy to have

1582
01:31:57,080 --> 01:31:59,040
him on the podcast.
He is a geezer.

1583
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:02,920
He's he's, he meets the standard
of geezerdom.

1584
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:05,880
And so we would be happy to have
him on.

1585
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:10,400
But thank you so much, Lori.
I always love hearing from you,

1586
01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:15,240
and I have a great appreciation
for behind the scenes and the

1587
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:18,160
things you're doing.
And I know that you would do 20

1588
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:22,400
times more given the budgets,
because then you could hire more

1589
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:25,400
people and then you could solve
more problems and help more

1590
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:29,480
people.
But this is the challenge with

1591
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:32,080
charities.
Of course it is.

1592
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:33,640
Yeah, you can only.
Spend.

1593
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:36,280
Yeah.
You know, we've touched on a

1594
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:38,960
number of the the programs
within our mental health

1595
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,520
initiative, but just to let
people know there's a lot more

1596
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:46,200
there and if they go to
btshealth.org/mentalhealth, they

1597
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:48,760
can see all of the various tools
and resources.

1598
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:50,040
Absolutely.
Yeah.

1599
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:52,960
Yeah.
Well, and I know, you know, you

1600
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:55,480
take on a lot of the social
stuff too, right?

1601
01:32:55,480 --> 01:33:00,200
Like a, you know, whether it's
racism or, or just accepting

1602
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:03,640
everyone and inclusion and all
of those different topics that

1603
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,520
are so important these days,
which is also good.

1604
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:10,960
You know, I know we talked a lot
about things like, you know,

1605
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:15,920
substance abuse and, and health
and, and sick people and things

1606
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,160
like that, but you're really
trying to sort of raise up the

1607
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,320
the standards of how people
treat each other in the industry

1608
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:25,160
as well.
One of the things that our

1609
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:29,240
survey showed was how prevalent
bullying and harassment and

1610
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:31,560
intimidation still were in
industry.

1611
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:35,560
And we knew that.
But what surprised us was that

1612
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:39,040
we heard it across every part of
the entertainment industry.

1613
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:43,560
We heard it from every age
group, every racial and ethnic

1614
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:46,040
identity, every sexual and
gender identity.

1615
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:50,160
And so we have a really
extensive stop Bullying

1616
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:54,200
campaign, lots of tools and
resources available on the

1617
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:56,880
website.
And one of the things that we

1618
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,680
offer that people have found
really helpful is we offer

1619
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:05,120
thanks to the sponsorship of the
IATSE International Court

1620
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,960
Bystander Intervention in the
Entertainment Workplace

1621
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:10,520
webinars.
So these are just free 90 minute

1622
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:15,480
webinars that teach people real
tools, actionable items that

1623
01:34:15,480 --> 01:34:18,440
they can use if they're
witnessing bullying and

1624
01:34:18,440 --> 01:34:21,600
harassment happening in the
workplace that they can use to

1625
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:25,960
safely intervene.
And it's given people a real set

1626
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:29,240
of of tools to go out and, and
make a difference in their

1627
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:31,760
workplaces if they see that kind
of behavior happening.

1628
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:37,400
So drop the, the web URL again
for us and, and how people can

1629
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:40,000
reach out.
And I want people to share this,

1630
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:43,720
to share it on your socials and,
and share it, You know,

1631
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:49,360
obviously besides funding and
besides all of these other

1632
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,120
things, one of the things Lori
said a whole bunch of times here

1633
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:55,280
is get the word out.
And, you know, you're not

1634
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:58,360
spending 10s of thousands of
dollars every month on Google

1635
01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:01,440
advertisement or on Facebook ads
or whatever.

1636
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:06,000
So sometimes it's hard to get or
it's easy to get lost in the

1637
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,400
noise that's going on in the
world.

1638
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:12,520
And so yeah, share your your web
stuff.

1639
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:17,680
If so, BTS help.org/mentalhealth
will get you to all these

1640
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:19,400
programs.
It'll get you to stop bullying,

1641
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:23,040
campaign to mental health first
aid to the suicide prevention

1642
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:26,440
information and everything else
that we offer.

1643
01:35:26,440 --> 01:35:29,160
And of course, there's a link
there to the main page where you

1644
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:30,920
can find out more about our
grants.

1645
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:35,200
You can donate, you can find out
about a new program we have

1646
01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:38,120
called Ghost Like Groups, which
is industry people coming

1647
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:42,640
together to do something they
love riding a bicycle, running,

1648
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:46,200
seeing movies, reading books,
whatever it is and and turn it

1649
01:35:46,200 --> 01:35:48,640
into fundraisers for the charity
so that they're helping their

1650
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:50,760
colleagues.
So there's lots of information

1651
01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:52,600
available on the website.
So good.

1652
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:56,720
Well, thank you Lori, appreciate
having you on and again, say

1653
01:35:56,720 --> 01:36:00,120
hello to your husband and best
of luck with everything.

1654
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,200
You going to be at LDII.
Will.

1655
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:03,680
Yes, I'll.
See you there together.

1656
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:05,760
A terrific Wellness lounge for
LDI this year.

1657
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:07,920
Awesome.
I'm doing something secret at

1658
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:10,600
LDI.
Ellen knows, but nobody else

1659
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:14,440
knows, so it'll be fun.
All right, Lori, thanks.

1660
01:36:14,440 --> 01:36:15,000
Have a great day.