#256 - Bryan Hartley

0:01 Hello, and here you are episode #256 and I got to tell you it was a lot of fun. Just finished recording with Brian Hartley and I'm sure many of you will remember Brian for being that guy from KISS, or you know, that guy from Megadeth or whatever. But people forget that for the last 25 or so years, Brian's main gig has been with TSO Trans-siberian Orchestra, a Christmas show, as everyone calls it. But Brian is sure to point out on this podcast and, and anytime anyone asks him, you got to see it. It's not just a Christmas show. It is a huge production and a beautiful show and loads and loads of gear on it. And so, yeah, this was a lot of fun. I actually learned a really important story about trans-siberian orchestra that I did not know. Did you know what band Trans Siberia Orchestra was formed from?

0:57 Listen to the podcast and find out. Hello Anne, thanks for joining me today on Gears of Gear episode #256 Today's podcast is brought to you by ACT Entertainment Actor. Thrilled to bring you a rare special offer on some of the hottest wash fixtures on the market this summer. And while supplies last, ACT Entertainment is offering an incredible deal on the Airton, Argo 6 FX and Zonda 9 FX. The Zonda 9 FX has already established itself as an eye-catching must have on rigs all over North America and more recently, Argo 6 FX is rapidly establishing a new benchmark in IP65 rated fixture power and visual effects. This summer wash sale from ACT Entertainment is a unique opportunity to invest in the best. Contact actentertainment.com for more details on this special offer.

1:54 And this podcast is also brought to you by Gear Source, who was founded in 2002 with an ambitious mission to support live events businesses buy and sell gear globally. Since that time, the company has transacted in more than 100 countries, selling a 1/4 billion dollars in sound, lighting, staging and video gear. Gear Source continues to evolve the platform for massive global growth, enabling localized currencies, payments held in escrow to protect buyers and sellers, AI powered logistics behind a new global logistics brand, and much more. Throughout 2024 and beyond, the company will continue to grow its toolbox, including this week they are launching the Need Zone and bulk listings management tools for the benefit of users worldwide.

2:43 So why not take full control over your gear with a visit to gearsource.com today? Welcome back. And so before I get started today, I want to remind you to listen to the most recent podcasts, which are both really good. Scott DeVos, I think is number 254 and a guy who's been in the business a long time.

3:36 I think it was 50 years or 52 years longer than most people. And then most recently, episode 255, which is Chris Lyle, both Nashville residents, both great guys, both really great stories to tell. I suggest you listen to them. I like that you listen to all of our podcasts, but these are good ones. And so I've been hearing a lot more about acquisitions and mergers that are being discussed. Of course, many of these are sensitive. I can't talk about them. People can't talk about them. Oftentimes I will find out about things. People like to share their secrets with me, and I respect their request for confidentiality. So I don't really, even though I'm not contractually, you know, bound by something that says I have to be quiet, I tend to protect those secrets for people and companies. But there appears to be a lot of M&A activity happening now. And I've felt for a long time, and I've mentioned this a lot on the podcast, I think people are hurting for cash right now. Companies are finding themselves in capital need. Banks are not lending and investors are kind of sitting on their wallets.

4:50 And so it's kind of a weird time. You know, manufacturers are are seeing their inventory burgeoning and growing and you know, they're trying to cut deals with with customers and customers are not really buying as much right now as they were, which has obviously created a sort of perfect storm scenario for the used equipment industry. And so we're seeing a lot of activity in gear source and which is also one of the sponsors for today's podcast. And so anyways, yeah, lot going on in M and AI think I will be one of the early people to announce some of these deals in the next couple of weeks. And so stay tuned for that.

5:32 Stadium shows continue to crisscross Europe and North America as well. I am probably going to visit one of those stadium shows in the next few weeks. In August I'm up at my house in Canada and in August Metallica is doing Edmonton and Edmonton is probably about a four hour drive from where I am right now. So it's kind of worth it to get up there and visit with Dan Brown and and Rob Koenig, of course, and also to see the show. I've only seen video and pictures of it. It is as far as stadium shows go. I think it's one of the benchmarks, one of the one of the sort of baseline setters, you know, because they did it without any rigging from above, because it was designed for stadiums and these towers that they've created are pretty spectacular. So I look forward to seeing that in person as much as maybe I'm not super looking forward to park at a stadium and walk 13 miles to get to seats that are, you know, way too far away to see anything.

6:36 But I think I'm going to go and I'll let you know what I think and maybe even share some pictures and thoughts and whatever. I'm sure it'll be great, though. The Olympics start tomorrow as I record this. I'm recording this Thursday, the 25th of July. And I believe the opening ceremony is tomorrow in Paris. And you've seen some of the bad guys acting up already and saying that, you know, the West will pay and the infidels will pay in all of this. I, for one, and I'm sure the rest of the world is with me on this one, I'm hoping for a very safe and secure Olympic Games. I hope none of the athletes or spectators or anyone has any problem related to any kind of terrorist activities or violence.

7:25 And at least that's what I hope. And I also hope for some pretty exciting Olympics. You know, I think this is probably the first, let's call it normal Olympics. You know, we had that one during COVID that was kind of wonky and then we had one cancelled. And so this is the first normal one. And I'm looking forward to, I'm sure Paris is going to do a great job. They're going to put on a great show. And, you know, I know a lot of lighting people and sound people and, and technical and production people involved. I think it's going to be spectacular. So I'm looking forward to seeing some of it. Admittedly, I'm not a Summer Olympics fan. I'm a Winter Olympics fan. I like remarkably.

8:07 I like, you know, skiing and hockey and even some of that border cross stuff. If you haven't seen border cross, it's kind of like NASCAR on on snowboards. I mean, it's nutty. It's pretty fun to watch and a pretty fun race. But yeah, Summer Games doesn't do much for me. I will watch it just because. But yeah, just a lot of sports that I don't necessarily pay much attention to. What else do I have? So AI, one of the interesting things that I just read, which is funny because I've recently done a podcast with some folks related to OverDrive Energy Solutions.

8:52 One of the founders of course, and we talked a lot about how battery technology is replacing gas generators or, or fuel based generators, I guess. And you know, that's his business. I'm very bought into that philosophy, even though I don't drive electric cars and think that, you know, we need to get rid of oil anytime soon necessarily. But I think that it's a great solution and I think there needs to be progress as it comes to energy solutions. But The funny thing is, so Elon Musk has created this thing called the Memphis Supercluster, which is basically a huge data Center for AI with a, a power requirement that I believe, if I remember correctly, is 7070 megawatts of power needed to run these, you know, this, this AI data center. And the interesting part though, is that they're relying on 14 massive natural gas generators to produce that power. They're not using batteries, they're not using solar farms. They're using natural gas generators, 14 of them. And you know, given everything we've learned about batteries and given that Elon owns arguably the most successful car company in the world, which is battery operated cars or battery powered cars in Tesla, you would

10:24 think that he'd be a little more cutting edge in how to power power these data centers. So it's interesting. I'm I'm sure he tried and maybe it was just logistically impossible or something, I don't know. But I found that to be interesting and, and it sparked my curiosity. So I'm going to actually have to reach out to OverDrive and ask them some questions about that. And also just sort of as a fun thing, I found an AI app for creating passport photos online. So I know like me, all of you probably are annoyed when you have to renew your passport and you're like, oh God, I got to go to a Walmart and pay 20 bucks for a photo and get my picture taken and stuff. Well, this app, you basically tell it what country you're getting the document for or the passport for you put in your country. It knows all the specs for each of those countries, takes a picture and it gives you three.

11:19 I think you get 3 opportunities for $2.99. So it's cheap. It's very convenient sitting on your butt at your kitchen table with your computer. And so that app is called Photo Packs dot AI, so check that out. I thought it was pretty cool. Excuse me, the cough that will never go, by the way, where I am, I'm next to Banff, Canada and in the mountains and there's a, there's a forest fire going on, two of them actually, right now in a town called Jasper. And some of you probably know where that is. Many of you might have even been there. Jasper's a beautiful town. I've been there 100 times from when I was a kid until most recently a couple of years ago, I guess. And there's a beautiful hotel there that's part of, I think it's part of CP Hotels, Canadian Pacific Hotels, which is called the Jasper Park Lodge.

12:15 And I think I actually just spoke about the Jasper Park Lodge about a week ago. But the town is basically, there were fires that were on the just on the outskirts of town. And less than a week ago, they started to evacuate people. And then all of a sudden the fires in the town. So it's burning people's houses to the ground, it's burning hotels. I saw a gas station blow up, a Petro Canada gas station blew up. So this is about a 2 1/2 hour drive from my house and it the smoke here is just unbelievable. Like for the past couple of days we've pretty much had to keep all windows, all doors, everything completely closed. And I mean, otherwise you're just coughing all the time and it's burning your eyes and stuff. The smoke is horrible and it's so sad. I mean I'm seeing so many posts online of folks who've lost their houses.

13:08 I saw a post online from Jasper Park Lodge who has said the fire has gotten to our to the Jasper Park Lodge. We're not sure yet of the the depth of the damage or how bad we've been destroyed or whatever, but we do know that it has gotten to us. So, yeah, I mean, over the next few days, hopefully they get this fire completely or these two fires completely under control. And, and, you know, hopefully more people than not will still have their houses and their belongings and everything else. I know the officials did a good job getting people out of there. But you know, everyone, people are going to lose houses that they grew up in and stuff. And it's just sad.

13:52 It's terrible. And I have opinions about why and how it happened and what can be done to keep it from happening more in the future. But I know it'll be an unpopular opinion so I probably won't talk about it here. And so anyways, today again, as I always say, I am looking forward to this one. But I really am. Production and lighting designer Brian Hartley has designed for a lot of rock'n'roll and metal bands in his long and storied career. Many people know Brian as the past LD for KISS, Megadeth, Aerosmith, Mötley Crüe and many other names, but he's probably best known, at least recently for his long time design work for the trans-siberian orchestra, or TSO, for which he's won Parnelli Awards for Best Lighting Design as well. This year will be his 25 year anniversary with TSO and Brian's also worked multiple times.

14:55 I've already mentioned thrash metal band Megadeth over the past 35 years. Brian just got back from Europe touring with Five Finger Death Punch. I'm sure that's on everyone's playlist right now, so we are extremely pleased. Brian has time to chat with me today on Geese of Gear and please join me and welcome Brian Hartley to the podcast. Brian, how are you? I'm good yourself. Fan flip. Fantastic. We finally figured out what time we were going to do this. Yeah, cuz when I did this, I was in Hungary, I think I was in Budapest or something. So when I clicked on a link it it took, it took my current GPS or whatever and it was trying to decide a time within that, even though it wasn't going to be in Hungary anymore.

15:44 Yeah, it does get confusing. It gets confusing when you're all over the place. I just I set every device I have to just automatically change time wherever I am because otherwise I just trying to manage it. You're constantly lost. Yeah, that's true. But sometimes when you leave it there and then it doesn't change then you know, there's that. So. Well, especially when you're on tour, you know, and you've got call times and buses leaving at this time and pick up is at this time like you obviously have to be paying attention. Yeah. And sometimes even with some of these people, you know, you're travelling through Europe and sometimes people don't realize that it changes the time zone in there, you know, like Helsinki or whatever it is, you know, changes from normal Europe. So there is a little bit of change and they're going from country to country sometimes so.

16:33 A lot of. People don't even know it or post it. I was, I was on the bus the other day. I was like, you know, it's a different time there. He's like, no, it didn't change. I'm going OK. And then finally about, you know, a couple hours it was, oh, it changed. You just got to look at your phone, keep your phone all the time because you know, most of these phones now are pretty good at figuring out where you're at and what time it is. Yeah. So first, I I appreciate you doing this. I appreciate you taking the time. I know you've been busy as hell and you got how how much time? What's your down time right now? Right now we just got back from with Five Finger Death Punch in Europe. We did like two months over there and then we got like a total of about 10 days. I actually leave in two days to go back out.

17:15 We start AUS run with five finger and we got Marilyn Manson opening up. And so that's going to be very cool. And and then I do that for two months about until the end of September. And then I think there's another show or two with with five finger with Metallica. And then after that they're done. And then I'll move right over to TSO and I'll be in TSO within a month of at the end of this, you know, So yeah, yeah, it is. It is. You know when you've been through 2020, though, Busy is good, you know. You know what? Yeah. And you know, it's what I do too, is. Yeah. So I I do enjoy it and that's why I'm doing this, you know?

17:56 You've been doing it for a while. Yeah, yeah. And then TSO comes up every every year so quick, you know what I mean? So it's just, it's just a busy year because I'll pit, I'll have another band that I worked with. It was so fighting and Death Punch or you know, Megadeth or whoever, Judas Freeze or whatever. And I'll use the word for band during the year and then do my TSO at the end of the year. That's very cool that that fills up the time when you're usually not going to be doing anything anyway, right? It does. It does. I mean, some bands, you know, like don't really like that. Like I, I did work for Lenny Kravitz, right? And it was great. He's a great guy and all that stuff. But you know, I had to do my TSO stuff and he wants his guys for he wants to put him on salary and he wants to have them. They're available to him, which is awesome. You know what I mean?

18:45 I just couldn't give up TSO for that, you know what I mean? And, and God, that was already, that was 16 years ago when I did that. So, so yeah. So it's a it's a little have to balance that out, you know. So that worked for a couple other bands that when it comes up and they don't, you know, they don't want me to leave, but I had to leave and then they take it personally, so. The five finger death punch thing in Europe is that was mostly festivals or. It was about 3 is about 1/3 of everything is about 1/3 of festivals and it was about 1/3 our own headlining shows. So we got to do our own headlining shows and arenas and stuff like that. And then and then after that we would do Metallica shows.

19:28 So we had kind of like three different kind of versions of shows that we do throughout Europe. And yeah, that was great. So is metal. I think I know the answer, but metal is is more popular in Europe still. It's amazing just the amount of festivals that are in Europe. I mean, in Europe they just got, you know, got it tons of more, way more in the US, right. Yeah. And they're just so every country and they're massive and they're two stages. I mean like grass pop. Sweet and rock, you know, Hellfest, you know, all those things. And I, I think I've been to most all those big festivals every year for the past four years. Yeah, You know, with different bands and everything. Yeah.

20:14 And Pantera did over there. So, you know, they're very standard, but they're big and they're. And they don't do them like that in the US here. So sunny. Sunny. Doesn't do Pantera, huh? Yeah, Sonny. Does Pantera and what it what we did on Pantera, I helped Sonny design the rig, right? And then I programmed for him. Good. I got him on the MA2 lights, right? And he loved that. So I got him on that. And then they were going to Europe. Then he really needed a guy to help. And so I was going to like, OK, he goes, well, can you come over there? It's not really what I do, you know, I said, but you know what, Sonny's a dear friend of mine. Yeah, right. So I was going like, OK, I'll do that.

20:55 He paid me good money. I went over there and I was his front of house guy and and I would do all that because when you go to Europe like this with the console, you know, you have to clone everything and you have to, you know, do that whole exercise, you know, different strobes every day. That's always just a irritating thing to have to do whatever. But but we did it. And you know what? Me and Sonny, we have last. And then we came back to the States and we came back to the States. I was with Lamb of God and it was Lamb of God in Pantera. We did. We did a tour together. So, Lamb of God. Freaking. Heavy band and like, I've never been into that genre of music.

21:36 Like I like metal, I love Judas Priest, I like all the 80s metal and stuff, and I like some of the newer heavy bands, but like I like Pantera. Not that they're new anymore. They're old though. But but. Lamb of God, like I went to what was the tour called? It was Megadeth and Dream Theater. This was like 10 years ago or something and Lamb of God was one of the IT was called Gigantor. Right, Gigantor, Yes. And Lamb of God was one of the bands and I remember just like, what am I seeing and hearing right now? Holy shit. Yeah, you know, it is different. And even for me because I'm, I'm the same thing. I grew up Judas Priest, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Yeah, all that stuff, right.

22:18 And to hear Lamb of God, God, I feel like then with God's a little bit behind me, so to speak, about 10 years or so, all those guys. And but you know, it is hard and heavy and it took me a minute to get my head around it all. And just really, because, because I did Slayer 20 years ago, whatever it was in 20/20/2002 and I did that and even, and that one was another one because I wasn't a huge Slayer, you know, listen to a huge amount of all the stuff. But I, I had to get my head around all the music because I had to know just as good as they did, you know what I mean? And then when you do that, I feel like, you know, even with Slayer, it's like, Oh yeah, OK, no, this stuff's awesome.

22:58 You know, even with Lamb of God, you know, you, you know, it's heavy and all that stuff. And then at the end of the day you're going like, you know what, this is pretty fucking awesome. It is. And they're very complicated to a Lamb of God. They're like, they'll have like a couple of tip on changes in the song. So one song's like 5 songs. You know what I mean? You have to to do that kind of music. You just have to know it. Yeah, that's true now. So I have a really good friend named Randy Black who's a drummer and I grew up in, in Western Canada and in the 80s and early 90s he played in a band called Click that was a Rush tribute band that were very, very popular in all the big clubs in, in Canada and, and they were good and very technical.

23:46 And he's a very technical drummer. Well, he plays in destruction out of out of Germany. And you know, they do all these big metal tours and, and metal festivals and stuff. And I mean, I watch videos of him and I, I talk to him all the time. I'm like, how do you go from like this? Like Neil Pert to to this stuff where it's just like, it's every song is a workout. Like he's going so fast. It's it's just crazy. And he loves it. He loves. It yeah. And, and sometimes even though you maybe not understand the music or or whatever, you know, to do all that stuff is an amazing task already. You know what I mean it. May not be your cup of tea, you know, I may.

24:26 I may prefer an Aerosmith song over, you know, a hardcore Slayer song, so to speak. But to do that Slayer stuff, those guys have the they're, they're all over it you. Know well even that like that singing technique, whatever that's called, like to me it's noise, but it's not that easy to do. And the people who do it well, you know, it's like, OK, I get it. I mean, I don't like it, but I get it. That's true. That's true. Well. That's crazy, but it's interesting. I mean, you you've been sort of typecast with that genre, right? Or with metal in general. Well, you know, it's sort of my time actually. I spent a lot of time with Megadeth, right, in the early years, whatever. And I was with Sabotage, which came, which became TSO. And then, you know, I did Megadeth, I did Anthrax, I did Slayer, you know, and then, you know, that was my real heavy bands that I did.

25:24 And that was more like in the 90s and the early 2000s. And then, you know, I had KISS and Aerosmith and Mötley Crüe too as well, which was almost like another separate genre, you know? Yeah, yeah. We did. Even with Megadeth, we opened up for Aerosmith, you know, so and Mötley Crüe, we opened up for Aerosmith too as well, so. Interesting you. Said so many connections with all these bands and. You said sabotage became. Sabotage. Yeah. They were a heavy metal band. So the very first, well, not the first tour that I did, but one of the very first kind of metal thing that we did, or that because I was working with Joan Jett. And then after Joan Jett in our office was this guy named Paul O'Neill, who was who's the guy who created TSO, right.

26:10 But he, he produced this band called Sabotage, right? And they were from Florida. And so he asked me if I'd do the lights for Sabotage. And this is 87. Yeah. So I did the lights for Sabotage, and we did this. Victoria was Sabotage, Megadeth and DIO, right? And that was 1987 into 1988. And it was a very iconic tour for everybody. Just because I ended up working with Megadeth, you know, Sabotage became TSO and. What do you mean it became TSO like? OK, so like I said, that guy Paul O'Neill, right? He was the producer with Sabotage, right? Yeah.

26:53 So he he got he discovered he found this band Sabotage he likes. So he started producing the records for him, right? And manage him right something. And and then so he did a couple of records and then after that, one of the records had this song called 12/24 Sarajevo, right? So it was a sabotage song, but it had a little bit of Christmas thing at the in the middle of like Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, right, the Carol, the bells thing, right? And all of a sudden the radio stations and everything picked up on it, right? And, and I almost feel like nobody really wanted to say it was sabotage, but for some reason this thing was taken off like crazy because a little bit of Christmas thing in there. So these guys decided to do a whole album around it, right? So they did an album around that song, which was. And then they started going classic Christmas songs, metalized, kind of like with metal, was the same. Band it was this metal band it.

27:53 Wasn't quite the same band. It was. It was the same band, yes, the same singer, you know, the guitar player actually, and the drummer. So yeah, it was actually all those guys involved and they, and it was really the producer, Paul O'Neill, you know, Paul O'Neill came up with the whole idea. John Oliva, the singer for a Sabotage, a brilliant songwriter and everything. So he wrote a lot of that stuff with Paul, you know, Paul Rose stuff and whatever. And then they, they did, they did three albums, right? Three Christmas records, 2 Christmas records and and a regular record before they even toured it all. So this music was already. There.

28:34 As Tran as the Trans-siberian Orchestra right And it was all Christmas based. So they decided to try to see what it would do on the road right? So they did, they did a tour of like 5 shows, right? Just five shows, no production, nothing like that. And and I wasn't even there right for the first five shows. And Paul O'Neill, the guy that I'm Speaking of right, he actually did the lights because he was a nut case for production. And you know later on we would get to a place and I'd have all these like squid prime fairness. That's fucking God, just double that, let's double that. And it's his money. So he just fucking threw the money in there. Sabotage becoming TSO and, and, and like I said, once we started that one year and they saw it was a, a, a decent thing or whatever, we just went year after year after year and just kept building the show a little bit bigger and bigger and bigger every year.

29:34 And here we are 26 years later and it's amazing, 26 years and every year, well, it's a completely different design, new show every year. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I've seen it a couple times and it really is a spectacular show. And I wanna, well, actually, we'll go into it. You know, normally I like to kind of go in a chronological thing and start at the beginning of your career and talk about how you got started and stuff. But let's just dive into this DSO stuff cuz it's a big deal. Yeah, yeah. And well, first I got a couple questions. One didn't.

30:18 Was there a singer? Dino Jalusik? Was he with TSO for a while? He was, he was recently been there for about maybe five years or six years I think he didn't do last. Year one of my favorite rock singers. Amazing they, you know, and, and sometimes it depends on the song that they have them sing or whatever, right? To really show his talent, because he had once one year he was singing like an acoustic song and man, he sounded, I mean, just like Chris Cornell, right? It was amazing. It was, it was, it was really a true, true just experience.

31:00 Such a powerful voice. Have you ever seen the cover? Of Have you ever seen the cover of Jefferson Starship that he did with with Mike Portnoy? And what's the guitar player's name? Dean. Was it Joel Hoekstra? Yeah. Or Joel. Joel Holstra. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jane, the song Jane. I mean, the way he sings that song, it's just like, you know, he's got so much power. And then I was with Judas Priest a couple years ago and we had this band, The Dead Daisies. They were opening up and then I think Glenn Hughes had to leave or something. And then Dino came in.

31:41 So Dino came in and he sang with them for about, I don't know, for last week or so of the tour and everything. So that was pretty cool. So I got. Glenn Hughes ain't an easy guy to replace either. Exactly, you know, and, and they were, they were badass. That guy blows me away. By the way, Glenn, he was talk about a guy who in his 70s is still belting it out, you know? Oh, yes. And yeah. He's still got a great voice. I mean, that was we all noticed that too, when these other singers like, man, this guy just, you know, he's still got that part of him good. Because you know, a lot of those things, you get to that age, you know, they just can't do what they did before, which is, you know, just normal. But I was a singer. I was a singer. I was a singer in my teens in a in a rock band. And I Can't Sing any of the stuff that I did when I was younger.

32:29 None of it. I mean, you know, I have half the range that I did back then. But I mean, it's like any other muscle. You gotta, you gotta keep it up. You gotta exercise. And I don't. And Rob? Halford, he's still you know, I feel like he's still got sounds amazing. He. Sounds amazing. So yeah, him, him, Steven Tyler, even Sammy Hagar doesn't sound bad. For a guy who's 76 years old. He's damn good. Yeah, it impresses me, those guys, because then you see like the, what's his name? Pearcey from Rat, and he Can't Sing any of the songs, you know, like there's a bunch of those guys who just quit. Please. Vince Neil.

33:09 Yeah, and I don't know, you don't. Want to talk about him because you've worked for him but. I've worked for them, but yeah, it's kind of sad, you know? You know, do these guys not care or they just can't do it? You know, I don't know. Some of them seem like they just can't do it. Money is an alluring drug. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true money, I guess they don't even mind embarrassing themselves or whatever. They and they don't care, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. You know, Joe Elliott is another one that, I mean, his songs weren't that hard to sing for the most part. But he since he stopped doing drugs and doing all the bad stuff and getting sleep at night and all that stuff, he seems to be as good now as he was 50 years, 40 years ago, you know?

33:58 You know who's another one like that? Another guy I worked for. He was like that when I worked for him. This is probably good at 6-7 years ago already and he was 70 years old and he did every song he sounded just like he did on and his name was Boz Scaggs. You know who he is, of course. And he, he was just, he was. I did a tour. It was, I did Michael McDonald and Boz Gags right. Yeah, I saw that. One of my employees was a huge Boz Gags fan and I think I bought him tickets for something or whatever and I went with him. And he's amazing. Both of those guys were amazing and they were so nice and everything and just such iconic people too as well, you know, with, with all those songs and everything they written. And like I said, Boz Gag, he sounded perfect. You know, he really did.

34:54 He never lost anything. Mind you, the range that he sang in was a very low range or whatever, Right. But but it's amazing. Yeah. So so does like the other ones feel to this day. Well, for like the new album, he could have gone out and created songs in this range, you know, that's. True. Like a like a 70, like a 70 year old guy should do you know, but he they're all the new songs are in really high register stuff and and he sounds amazing like that new album blew my mind when it came out. I was like, you got to be kidding. This is so good. But. I love Priests. They were, they were amazing. I'm a great band. Great band. I grew up listening to him too as well so. Oh, me too. Yeah, me too.

35:35 So back to TSO. So they created the band basically because of this small part of a song from Sabotage that had some bells and it sounded a little Christmassy and here what is it 30 years later or 25 years later or something? From that probably from that time, yes, probably 30 years, you know, we've been doing for 26, you know what I mean, so. And it's crazy. Do you think that TSO, you know, they've had so many great musicians. I think Joel Holstra too, right? He's still there. Yeah, he's still. Yeah, they've had so many great musicians through that, but is that just a brand now? Like a brand, not a band. Well.

36:16 Sort of like Blue Man Group or something. No, yes and no, right. In all reality, yes. You know, Paul really wanted to be, he wanted the show to be this arm, which is really what I do. You're right. And that that's that's that's awesome. But I think over the years, you know, you guys got, you have guys like Al Petrelli. You know, he's been there so long, you know, everybody knows who he is and he's got a great following. And so and the East Coast, you have Chris Caffer, which is one another sabotage guy and he's the MC and you know, it's just he's been there since the beginning. So you know, after all these years, you know, people kind of get to know who's in the band and all that stuff.

36:59 So, and they each have their own following and stuff like that. But, but you know, it's, it's, it's a little bit less about the star performer in a way, then more is about the the big music and the show. Not to say it's close to me or whatever, but it is the show. But the musicians are amazing. And there there's some amazing musicians we have and some of we've had for, you know, 20 years. You know, a lot of the people though we have or are still there. So that's nice. Yeah, but you know, it's like I was talking with Doc McGee on the podcast about KISS maybe being a band that continues as a brand, where they just insert musicians like Menudo or Menuda Menudo. Menudo.

37:46 Yeah. And but I see TSO as one of those like where it can go on for another 30-40 years. Yes, exactly. Yeah, we'll just keep. Inserting new musicians. You know, kids, I feel like it's a little different because a lot of people, you know, the whole brand has grown up knowing Gene Simmons and, and Paul Stanley and, and those characters and those people. You know, I think once you put somebody else in there that's not them, you know, you probably can continue on a bit. I think you have to build it with the younger generation because all the people that are kids fans are all much older. So you have to kind of hit a different demographic and and hopefully something clicks, but nothing's going to replace what really originally happened with Kiss when I was a kid and I was growing up and they were out there and we were all going like, wow, what is this? Look at the album cover, you know, does that happen anymore? No, you know, I, I don't think bands people. Taylor Swift.

38:50 Like that Taylor Swift, that's another phenomenon. That's that's amazing, you know? Yeah, I wish I was working for Taylor Swift, to be honest with you. That's an amazing gig, you know? But those are once or twice in a generation kind of sure. You know, that's like a Michael Jackson's, you know? Yeah, exactly. Or Taylor's kiss, you know, Or kiss Taylor. 'S kiss, yeah. But I was, you know, again, I was with KISS for 15 years. Yeah, yeah. So what years were those? That was about 93 to about 2008 or so. It was so 90. Three, they didn't have the makeup on or. They, no, when I first started with them, they did not have makeup on. And it was kind of, it was just after the revenge record, right. And, yeah, you know, it was all right. You know, back then when they didn't have, I had more like lunches and dinners with Jean and Paul than I ever did, you know, because I think, you know, it was, everything was taken down a little bit.

39:55 But, you know, once they put the makeup back on and we did that reunion tour, it was just amazing. It was all the four original guys. And to be honest with you, I was LD and and and and. Doc McGee wasn't involved right before when they didn't have the makeup on. And then when he came on for that reunion tour, to be honest with you, I was a little nervous. I figured, oh, he's going to put like, you know, I don't know, Ali Ulma or, you know, David David or whatever 'cause he worked. Doc McGee had the Bon Jovi and Scorpions, all that stuff. So I, I was thinking, oh God, probably get rid of me now. But no, he didn't. And, and I got to stay for all those other years. So that was, that was pretty cool. So.

40:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that was probably a fun run, especially again because you started sort of in there more humble years and and you wrote it into like I remember the reunion tour. That was a big deal, Yeah. And it sold really well and it was a big show we. Did 13 months straight or something like that and just broke all kinds of records. Did that first show in Detroit, Tiger Stadium, you know, sold out like 40 minutes or whatever it was. And we did some rehearsals there and then we did the first show. It was, it was great. It was good so. Fun man that had to take it right back to like 13 years old or something.

41:22 Well, yeah. And plus, you know, I mean, I grew up listening to KISS, you know what I mean? Me too. Yeah. You know, it's amazing to work with bands like, you know, KISS, Mötley Crüe, Aerosmith, you know, just those kind of bands that I grew up listening to and, and now to be able to work with them and work with them is awesome. You know, again, like to me, I grew up in a similar time. I'm probably a little bit older than you, but I don't think much. But how old are you? I'm 60, I just turned 60. Oh, I'm actually older than you. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Way better hair than I do. I'm 60, I'm 61. You know what? And I do have pretty damn good hair. You got pretty damn, you got one of the best 60 year old hairdos that I think I ever saw.

42:07 Good for you, man. Yeah, well, now you've now you've set a goal for me. You've set a pretty high bar. I got to go fix my fucking hair. But you know, so I grew up with a lot of these bands. You know, Foreigner now is a cover band. I grew up with Foreigner Kiss. God knows if they're going to do anything, I believe that somebody is going to turn KISS into, you know, a TSO kind of thing or a, a menudo. But for me, TSO, like if you asked me who any of the members of TSO are, I would be telling you temporary people who I know I've seen in the band, like sure, like Joel and like, you know, whoever, right?

42:52 And so I feel like that's a band that is going to go on for 2530 years without a problem and not miss a step. Sure. And you know, like you said, there are some key guys who came from Sabotage or whatever, but oh, didn't somebody just die? Keyboard player right Vitali. Yeah, Vitali, Vitali Capri, he did he was a he was a Ukrainian guy and he was an amazing guy, yes. And it was a terrible loss for us all. He was he was just a very amazing character. Yeah, what I mean, his Ukrainian and you know, he he spoke with this accent and he was an amazing piano player and and do he could do just amazing stuff. And so, yeah, that was a very tragic loss for us all. We loved him to death, yes.

43:41 Yeah, yeah. That's too bad. That was just recently, right? Was that this? Year yes it was I believe you had a heart attack or. Something like that. So yeah. That's well. But he lived good, man. He lived good and he was an awesome, amazing keyboard player. Yeah. So I was, you actually provided an equipment list from the 2023, last year's winter tour, OK. And or we got it somewhere, I don't know, maybe she got it off your website or something. You know what it may. You know what? It may have been the thing I did for live design or something last. Year, yeah. It was the 12 plots of Christmas, right?

44:22 I think the one that we're looking at is Ghosts of Christmas Eve. OK, OK. So what's the difference? Oh, you know the difference. It was not, not much of a difference. It was. It was Ellen Lambert over there. She did a. Thing called 12 I remember. Seeing. That and, and, and it was coming up to the first one and I was going like, hey, next year I want to be involved with this, you know, and then she goes, you know what she goes, can we put you in the number one spot? This. Year right this year and I was going like, that'd be so nice. That's because it just fit us perfectly. Well, considering we're like the number one Christmas Fang there is, you know.

45:04 Dude, it was fun to do too. Like, are the guys ever annoyed that, you know, they've become synonymous with Christmas? You know, it's, it's like Mariah Carey with that song. You know, like it probably every Christmas it's just like, oh, I got to sing that friggin song. You know, you know, I think yes, in a way, but I think the show, just the enormity of the show and just the, the, the atmosphere and everything. And yes, it is the same music, you know, and it is, yeah. And the fans are amazing. You know, they've got so many fans and, and like, and like with the show, I get to come up with all these crazy things. Like like last year I, I came up with a snow globe, right? And I put a girl inside of it singing a song, you know, And this thing goes up and rotates and just. Confetti blowing around in it and stuff too. No, we didn't.

45:56 We didn't actually have anything inside blowing it. I just just a little texture around. That's a bullshit snow globe then. Yeah, Yeah. Come on bro, that's true. But it was amazing. It was. And I had these big giant nutcrackers that were 23 foot tall. And they were. What were those? Inflatables? Inflatables. Oh cool. The snow globe was inflatable too as well. Very cool. So that's the kind of stuff I really enjoy is the inflatables, because you can, you can come up with some crazy stuff that's so unique to whatever the project is, whatever band it is, and you can make it and goes down to the small little box, you know what I mean?

46:38 Doesn't take up any space, you know, it looks so real, you know? Yeah. So those nutcrackers, they look so they look like they were real. Imagine that. Very cool. And it's all arenas, right? There's nothing outdoors. You don't do any stadium stuff or anything. We do a perfect, we do like a perfect schedule on a way, but you know what we do? We do the same cities every single year, OK, So we're going to Dayton, OH for two days, You know, Pittsburgh for two days, you know, Philadelphia for two days. Oh, it's two nights everywhere. Columbus No, no, no, not two days, Two shows. Yeah, and then, didn't mean to say days, but there's two shows in all those places. One day, though. One day there's two shows.

47:20 So we do a we do a three o'clock show and a 8:00 show. Oh wow. Yes. And we so, so just to give you a little, little idea of how we do this. So we and just so, yeah, you know there's two of them, right? Yeah, yeah, there's the East Coast. West Coast, right? So just a little quick thing here. Wednesday night we do one show, right? Yeah, On Thursday night we do one show, OK Friday we do two shows, right? Saturday we do two shows, and Sunday we do two shows. OK, so that's eight shows from Wednesday to Saturday, right? Yeah, eight shows with the other band. That's sixteen shows, 16 shows in a five day period and they all sell out.

48:06 They're all like 14, anywhere between 14 and 15,000 people at each one shows. So the enormity of it, I mean the Stones, when they come to like Cleveland or whatever, you know, we will do, we'll do four shows there in Cleveland and you know, that's 1234 and that's more than Stone Cell and all the Cleveland. I know it's not a really kind of perfect comparison, but we do. And also every year for maybe the past 15 years, right? Every year we're in the top ten ticket sellers of everybody, you know.

48:47 Somebody's got to be tempted to do full on residencies, you know, like you could have eight shows in residencies in different parts of the country and just move those around. And they, they, they've kind of thought about it, but I don't know if just that I don't know if that's the right formula. You know what I mean? I don't. This seems to be working. Because the way they do it now is just really all, I mean, like I said, Ohio, you know, just Ohio is Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, you know, Toledo and, you know, that's just five cities right there. And there's another five cities in Pennsylvania. So it's kind of a a unique market. You know, they've tried to come to Vegas and they really don't say anything in Vegas. Yeah.

49:30 Nobody's interested. So do you go out and direct one of them and somebody else directs the other? Coast I don't sign it as one, right? And then I'll program it as one. So they're just duplicates? They're exact duplicates. Exactly. Duplicates, huh? Yeah, and the bands play the exact same songs, you know, and I'll do a bit of time code on there so, so I can keep both, both sides perfectly and the same thing, you know? And I have my buddy Michael Keller. He does. You know Michael Keller. Of course. OK, so Michael does, he does the West Coast for me. He's been doing it probably I think 4 years now. And, and he's awesome. He draws all my vector work stuff and all that stuff. And he's a, he's a, he's a good, good buddy of mine and he does a great job out there.

50:15 So, and when we do rehearsals, right, and we do rehearsals in Omaha, So what we do is the West Coast does their first show there, right? So they set up in the normal side of the building, right? The West, the East Coast we set up at the other end of the building. So you got this arena with the West Coast here and the East Coast here. And they're all just meet in the middle and we rehearse there for three weeks, right? And we have everybody there. So there's about 250 people there, if not more, with the both bands, the both crews and everything. And we do the build there. And that those are some things that, you know, people really don't see or understand, you know, except for the people, the people that are working, you know, you know, those people.

51:02 There's always a little bit of connection when you know somebody. And we've done TSO together, you know, we're going like, yeah, a lot of people don't even realize what we do. You know, we do rehearsals and everything is, is it's a big deal. It's, it's pretty cool, you know? In five days. The cool part is it's one in and one out, right? Yeah, that's five different cities. That's not not that's not multiple. Cities, right? So that Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, that's five different cities. Yeah, but we're still playing two shows, two shows, two shows, Yeah. And then and then we have Mondays and Tuesdays off, right. So they'll give, they give you 2 days off, but then we get right back at it, get into Monday. Well, and I.

51:45 Guess the the days with two shows are tough because you got to get everything in and done and and focusing. Interesting enough, yes, you're right. So, you know, you would think that this is just so hardcore and everything, but you know, after years of doing it and you do it or whatever, it gets to a point where the double show days or great, you know, the single show days become like, oh Jesus, it's just all day long and you're just sitting around and waiting to do the song. You know you, they're almost like days off in a way when it's just single show. What time is sound check on a double show day like noon? You know, really, they don't really do the sound check that often, you know, so they'll get really, they're all that good, you know. So once they get it, because in rehearsals, for the last week of rehearsals, we're doing two shows a day. Yeah, in the rehearsal, Right.

52:37 So at the end of rehearsal, you're going like kind of feel like I just did 20 shows. Yeah, that's true. And so when we get out there on the road, you know, it just, it's, it's a grind. It's only a six week grind, you know, so it's only six week of touring. Yeah, but that's a lot of shows in six. Weeks of shows. Man, more than most will do in a whole tour. Yeah, and when you get down to that last single show day, you know the guy, our guy, Chris, I usually say because, well, this is our last day off because these single shows are light days off after doing so many double shows, you know what I mean? So. Do you guys have like a crew Christmas party or something since it's a Christmas? Show, well, you know what we do? Well, they, they provide Thanksgiving for us, right? So we'll have a day off for Thanksgiving and they'll provide a whole, you know, dinner for us and stuff like that. And the same with Christmas and Christmas, you know, we do dinners right for Christmas.

53:33 You know, our guy, our guy Elliot Saltzman, I don't know if you ever know that name or whatever. He's an icon. He's, he got me my start with Joan Jett in the early days, but he's our, he's our main guy with TSO, our production coordinator, right. So he, he, he, he's the guy who does all this logistic stuff between both because he's, he's got to deal with both tours, you know, because he's dealing with the vendors and getting the deals done and all that stuff. So he's got the, he's got the biggest job of anybody, you know what I mean? So, but he's a, he's a, he's such a foodie and A food guy.

54:14 Our dinners are Christmas thing. We do it at Carmine's. I don't know. I don't know if you know what Carmine's is. We've done, we've done Carmine's for years in New York City as our dinner. So they just he really does the the dinners and everything, right. He's a food guy too as well. Full. That's nice. That's got to be a fun party. Yes, it is. It is. You know it is. It is. But, you know, by the time you get to Christmas, you know, you've already been through this whole rehearsal and all these shows and you're kind of going like, OK, this is cool. That's, you know, ready to be done. Yeah, enough already. Yeah, I get it. So what was I going to ask you?

54:55 Something so that's another thing not bad about TSO is like we have a bit of a turnover raid on our crew and stuff like that. Because, you know, a lot of people have kids, you know, and when you do, you'll do TSO for like 2 years, OK, Three years, OK, that's great. And they're like, you know, I, I can't, I can't do it this year. I just, I, I just can't. I got my kids. My wife's going to leave me, you know, you know, or whatever it is because I've been going there for Christmas for the past three or four Christmases, you know. So that's hard. That's usually hard for some guys. You know, me, my daughter's grown. She don't care about it, seeing me or whatever. So it's it's all good. Fly out and see wherever that show. Is, you know, yes and my daughter's an amazing production assistant. She just finished with Bad Bunny, you know, Carol G, New Kids on the Block, Pink, you know all this shit, you know, so I know nothing about touring.

55:48 Just so you know, when it comes to her, she. Knows. Well, yeah, why would she go into that business? What a fluke. Freak action is good, I'm very proud of. Her, that's very cool, good for you. So does TSO own gear? Like do they own any of their own stuff or do they just rent every year? We just rent every year. And what I've done, I went ahead, I went, you know, I've taken a page out of some other people's books. So where I bought some stuff, I saw them renting this stuff, the blacks. I was like, well, hey, you know what you're renting for, You know you're winning for, you know, $10 and you know what I'm going to buy and I'm going to rent it to you for $5. And then, then I do that. So I I bought a bunch of stuff.

56:31 So I don't like the the blacks that go across the the back of the arena because we get we do it at blacks that make it look really nice. That and I own my lighting console. I've owned my lighting consoles for years. You know, that and media servers. I I've got into that. That makes sense. And and you know, that's cool along. I bought stuff that I use, you know what I mean? That I actively like in my lighting consoles. I use that so I can always, always get that on the tour because it's just part of my whole thing, so. Yeah, not quite as much as like Eric, you know, with Janet Jackson and stuff, you know. Where no, no, I don't want to get his stuff crazy. I don't want to be a vendor. You don't want to own moving lights. No, no, nothing like that.

57:15 You know, I have my consoles and I've gotten eight of them, so I do have to rent those out a bit, you know, But it's not like I'm offending anybody by trying. I'm not trying to start a lightning company or anything like that. I'm just trying to get rich myself, that's all. Is it the same vendors every year? Does it go out to bid every year? No, it does not go out to bid because you know Elliot here again, you know he has a huge loyalty to all these people we work with. Our lighting guy is Burton from PRG and he does he's been with us all through, you know, VER Evan Tez, Q1 and all this stuff. So we've hung on. We pretty much followed him where he went.

57:57 So and it's the same thing with our sound is Todd Johnson. He's been there since the very beginning, you know, and he's done an amazing he's the client, he's the, the, he's the sound Rep, right? He's the sound guy, but he's the sound Rep and he's been here since the beginning and he's always come to the table one day and gave him a good deal and that they have no other reason. I love that kind of loyalty. Yeah, I love that kind of loyalty to keep the same vendors every year. It makes it easy too when you're doing that many shows. Sure, which is in. That tight of a period of time. Yes, and it's a band. We use SGPS, you know, They're a big part of our whole equation, you know? So for me is SGPS.

58:39 Oh, Jesus. Just because we needed to make things. Harder. I'm here. Let me turn this thing off so you won't. It's all good. But yeah, you know, they're having the vendors every year. Does does is a good thing too as well, because you really just need that that bit of, you know, working together and they know, you know, everybody knows each other and all that stuff. So. But do you? Do you have to force yourself to not get lazy? In other words, like, let's just do the same thing we did last year. Kinda, you know? Well, I mean, sometimes it kind of works out like that just because it's just the default. But every year, man, I've got to do a brand new show. Yeah, and that's pretty fucking awesome. That is a.

59:29 Lot of people don't get that, you know, usually like KISS, you know, you go out, you design a tour, you know, it goes on the road for you know what, two years or something like that. And then after that they take a year off whatever. So there's only like 1 design every like four years or whatever with those types. The bands here, in four years I'm doing 4 completely brand new designs. Yeah, the music stays the same, right? Yeah, with a couple of changes or whatever. Basically the music is the same and, and I just, I just do a different show. So that's that's amazing. With Kiss, I think every time they do a final tour, they change the design, you know, every three or four years when it's their final tour, they changed.

1:00:12 And I did the I did the final, I did the farewell tour. And that was in 2001. I believe it. Was Oh my God, and they did another 22 years or whatever. Yeah, exactly. But to all to our reality, when we did that farewell tour, that was the last time was the four original guys. So after that, then the ace guy left and then Peter or whatever and then they carried on for another 20 years. But the farewell tour was with the four original guys and and I thought that was pretty cool, even though I was still with him after that. When they did, when they had Tommy and Eric Singer, which are great because when I started with kids, Eric Singer was in the band when they didn't have the makeup back then.

1:00:54 Yeah, that's cool, man. And so I think TSO they, they do some charity stuff too, right? Oh. God, that's another thing, you know, like I told you, you know, we could, we could talk for hours on TSO because they after 26 years, there's just there's, there's a lot to talk about and that's one thing, you know, for the entire time that we've been around, right, every show, they give a dollar from each ticket. So if we play, we play an arena and say there's 15,000 people there that afternoon show and 12,000 for the other less 27,000 people, right? So they'll give $27,000 to a local charity and, and you know, they invite the people up on the stage and they give them a check for 28 grand or whatever.

1:01:43 Or if they're just on it by the show is 12,000 or 13,000 to a low. So they've given away. Oh God, I don't even, I don't even don't even know what the count is about like $15 million or something, something like that. You know after all these years was at least a million tickets a year. Are these like kids charities or like? Or is it just all is all different ones, you know, different kinds, you know, sometimes there's AI think they've done some animal charities too as well. And, you know, a lot of kids stuff and a lot of just a lot of stuff that's in locally in the, the region that we're playing, you know what I mean? So they'll try to help out the best way they can. And that was from Paul O'Neill too, as well. And they still do that to this day. You know a dollar from each ticket goes to a local charity. Is Paul, is he the one that passed away recently, like a few years?

1:02:36 Ago 2017 right? Yeah, yes, he did. And he was an amazing, I mean like a smart. Business, dude. Yeah, he, he was. But I tell you, if he wasn't the producer or or the songwriter and all that stuff, you know what he would have been doing? He would have been doing the lights because he really the fucking he was the production and all that stuff. And I'm glad he called me when when they he put this whole thing together, because like I said, I worked for sabotage, right and a couple other his bands. And then when this TSO thing come up, he's just, he felt like I was the perfect guy for it, you know? So I got to do it. And, and Elliot started at the same time, me and Ellie, and we've been there since the beginning. And we worked with Joan Jett together, you know. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff that's really cool about.

1:03:29 When you're when your boss is is a lighting wannabe or a lighting guy, does that make it harder or easier? I don't know is, you know, he was like he was a very, you know, I hate to use the word schizophrenic, but kind of like that. You know, he's always going like Brian, Brian, that's awesome. I like that. Can I get more of those? Just give me like another 20 more of those things And can we have fire in the audience? And we're going like, sure, sure. So we put fire out in the audience in the front of house and then along the wings and everything in the early days. And, you know, he was just that. He was just that connected to the production because, oh, you know, Brian, you know, this is not a Christmas show. This is a heavy metal show, you know, and that's just how he was, man.

1:04:16 He had long hair, sunglasses and leather jacket. And, you know, he just, he really would go around. I know he didn't really, he never talked about this or never really, you know, but he would just go around and like people that like the waiters or something or, or the door guy or just this person. I and you know, he would always give them $100 bill and say here, you know, go do always giving it to the homeless, you know, and just, I mean, just a constant thing and not even looking for any recognition. You know, he'd probably hate it if they, I, if he even knew I was talking about it, you know what I mean? Because he was very, he very. He liked to take care of people but didn't like to get recognized for it.

1:04:56 You know, wow, those are the best kind of people. He was, he was amazing. He, I remember one time he gave everybody $100 bill for Christmas, right? OK, everybody $100 and say here, you know, you take this $100 and you go give it to somebody who needs it. So you go give this away. You know, whether it's a tip for the cab or a tip for the waitress or a homeless person or whatever, someone that really needs it, give it to him, you know? Yeah, pay it forward. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. That's a great way to be. I mean, it sounds like an incredible gig. Like, you know, is there some point when you stop doing everything else and you just. That's your retirement gig that makes you a little bit of money every year and keeps you going and keeps you fresh. I.

1:05:40 Mean I I don't, I feel like I don't feel like I'm. Ready to retire yet? No, no, I'm not. You know, I enjoyed it so much. You know, I really. People want, yeah. But no, I don't think I'm there yet. You know, I enjoy my Megadeth, you know, my five finger death punch, the Judas freeze and you know, all that kind of stuff that I do. But at the end of the day, you know what? Yeah, I'm going to come back to you. So because that has really been the creative outlet for me. I mean, I I came up with a castle and I protected upon it, you know, and it was amazing. And I and I came up with a toy box that opened up that the band came out of and, you know, just like that. And I did this old theater that would go away at the end of the narration that would come back from the narration. And you know, just, I did a pyramid that opened up that had fire in their video around it.

1:06:39 It was just I've done some cool stuff. I think the last time I saw it, my son, who's 20 now, I think we took him and he was like four or something. So I might, I might have to go again. Maybe I'll go this summer or just went through, I mean. Yeah, well, let. Me know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let me know because it's amazing why people, I've had people in the industry come see me and they're going, yeah, I saw like 15 years ago, theater and stuff. I said, you know, we come check this out, you know, Then they were going like, oh, I have no idea. It was like this, You know, we got, we got 20 trucks with the stuff on each. We do this, we do those, we do those rehearsals.

1:07:20 You know, we'll have 40 trucks in the park. That's insane. I love that. Rehearsal thing with both bands on either side of the. And I'll get to a point where I'll have, you know, I'll have the timecode going or whatever. So it just kind of plays itself and I hook in the other side too as well. So you know, the the West Coast be playing or something, but both rigs are going at the same time. That's pretty. So cool. Well, and it's great for the vendor too, because it's like, OK, so yeah, I need twelve of those, 12 of those, fifty of those, 100 of those. OK, no times 2. Yeah, I know. It every time's two on everything. Everything's times 2. Yeah, that is awesome. That's the. Big joke too is I want this this this times 2.

1:08:01 Brian, I kind of, I kind of went backwards here, but how'd you get started and when? You know what I got started when, when I was, you know, when I was in high school, I played in a band, right? And I had a band. I, I put together the lies, the sound. You know, my parents got me a, a truck and I had a car and then when I had a band and then we went out and toured like between my 10th and 11th grade and, and we know between 11th and 12th grade, right back then you only had to be 18 to get in bars, right? So we can play. So 17, you can kind of get away with it out there. So we went and played all these bars through the lower eastern United States, Georgia, South Carolina and Mississippi, all this stuff. I'm from North Carolina, so that's explains my accent. Well, it probably doesn't explain my. Accent.

1:08:53 Yeah, Sarah said. You know, Sarah with her crazy British accent goes he's got a bit of an accent. And I'm like, oh really? And it's very Southern. You know, some people think, are you from England? I was like, no, I'm not. I'm from North Carolina. Yeah, but but that was that was cool stuff. And then and then, you know, I had the band and then when I was about, we got out of high school and my band broke up, right, Whatever. There was another local band called Nantucket and they needed a lighting guy that maybe owned some lights. And I happened to go, oh, I owe my little light show here. So so they hired me and I and I did that. I didn't use the truck, but I did use the lights. And then I went, I did that for maybe a year with those guys and they were just playing clubs in North Carolina, North Carolina band or whatever.

1:09:43 And, and then when that was done, a buddy of mine, a guitar tech that I worked with, went to work for Joan Jeff. And then he hooked me up with Elliot. And then so that's how I started with Joan Jett. And then after that I, I just got rid of the lights that I had or whatever. And then? When you, when you started with Joan Jett, what was that? Were you, were you on the crew or were you? No, No. I was the lighting guy. I was right there. They need a lighting guy. They were just, they were playing kind of like bars and stuff and a little smaller stuff. Whatever 2 gig though. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So I I did that and I and with Joan Jett a little bit with her. So since I wasn't a, you know, it wasn't really too much of an established lighting guy. You know, I was, I was just doing this couple bands. I went to New York and then I moved to New York. And then as I'm working with Joan Jett in between the tours, I started doing the records, right. So I did all this recording stuff with Joan and her band where I would, since I was an established lighting guy, I would go there, be the Gopher, I'd go to the deli, I'd roll the joints, you know what I mean?

1:10:48 I would, I would tune the guitars because I was a guitar player, so I could take care of the guitars and tune those and for the studio and set up the drums and all that stuff. So I did that for about four or five years with so that on the off that was. Before she broke and then while she. Broke, it was a little bit after she broke and then it this was probably 80. This was 84 when I started with Jump Jeff. So she'd already been established And then, and then right after that, a couple of the records that we did, they were hit records, you know, like, I hate myself for loving you and all that stuff. And it was, it was kind of cool to be in the studio like that and.

1:11:29 So let me ask you, like when you were 12, did you have a Runaways poster on your wall like I did? You know, I'd like the Runaways I but I know I had KISS posters. I had. I had kiss too, but runaways were girls. But I also had, what I had was a Farrah Fawcett. I had Farrah Fawcett, you know, I had that on there and. Farrah was my girl, too. Yeah, yeah. And I think I might have had that. What's her name? The ditzy 1 from 3's company, Suzanne. Somers Oh, right, right. Like I had. Her, The Runaways and Farrah Fawcett might have been sort of my three go TOS. They were my. Inspirations. You know what, Joan was awesome. I spent about 10 years with her and you know, everything about her was awesome and I just enjoyed that. It was such a unique, well, such an great time for me in a great era because that was just starting out. And what we did that when I worked with Joan Jett as far as the studio stuff, I did all that. That was pretty cool.

1:12:26 But we toured with everybody we toured with. We toured with the Kinks of The Beach Boys, Robert Plant, Aerosmith, and we just toured with all these bands. And that's how I got to know so many of these people. Like, I knew, I don't know, you know, Opie from Production manager. OK, so I, I did, we did a Rat tour. It was Joan Jett. It was Poison, Joan Jett and Rat. And I was with Joan Jett and Opie was out there. Opie was, he was the lighting guy. He was doing all the moving trusses and everything. Yeah, back to Charlie Hernandez was the production manager. Bill Ely was the lighting guy. Yeah. And that was probably, that was probably 85.

1:13:09 That's like an All Star crew right there. I know right, All Star crazy, crazy stuff. And and you know, I still know you know Opie to this day. It's always, it's always good to see Opie because you're just having that such a long time friendship is is pretty cool. Yeah, that is very cool. So we're so, I mean, Joan Jett, that was basically a big part of the early years of your career. So you weren't doing other stuff as well as Joan, but. But I did, I actually a little bit, I did the Joan thing. I started going the records, right? And then whatever. And then as I started working with Joan jab, there was one time where they were playing the Beacon Theater. OK, So and it was a big deal, right? So I was going like, OK, then.

1:13:49 So they kind of came to me. They're going, listen, we're going to bring in this other guy to do the lights for these two shows, right? So, you know, and me, I'm not an established guy, so I, I couldn't take it too hard, but but the guy came in and, you know, he taught me how to call spotlights. He, he taught me how to draw. And this guy's name was John Broderick. Who JB. Is. So it was, so it was him that came in there and I was going like, OK, you know, I I'll take it there and learn something from it, you know, and, and I did and he was awesome.

1:14:31 Like I said, he told me we had to call spotlights. He taught me how to draw. And back then drawing wasn't on the computer, drawing with a, with a pencil and a stencil. And you know, he told me the right chair to get the right, the right drafting board and everything. He really set me up and he took the time man. And he really, he really took time with me. So that, that was awesome. And I value Metallica. Oh yeah, that was, well, that was 85. So he hadn't worked with Metallica yet. And I, I remember I, I became friends when the back then and then just like a couple years later, it was probably only two years later, he called me and he's like, hey man, I'm fucking heavy metal now. So really he's I'm going Metallica. That's why.

1:15:14 OK, that's pretty cool, you know, and. Some of that stuff, yeah. Yeah, he's a bad ass dude, Yeah. Have you talked to him recently? I saw him about 10 years ago. That was about it. And he came to TSO, yeah, to visit with my Joan Jett people and TSO people. And he can, I think that was 2014. It was about 10 years ago. And, and it was great to see him. He sat out, they went in front of the house and it was like I was. I try to reach out to him every six months or so and we talk quite often and for a long time, for a couple of years. Like I think it started right after he split with Metallica, his, I believe it's his wife's dad passed away and he had this massive art collection and, and JB took over the art collection.

1:16:04 Like just basically, he kind of started curating this collection and, and helping to, you know, figure out what to do with it. And some of it went off to galleries or museums or whatever. And, and, but he was cataloguing all this stuff and it was like this huge, huge collection of stuff. And but, yeah, you know, we've had a lot of really long talks about life and the industry and. I knew his wife, too. Dory. Yeah. Yeah, she was she was a sweetheart too. She was. She was awesome. Yeah. I I went to a Metallica show years ago, probably 88, right around that time. And then I didn't, I didn't know what was going on with the show, right. And then all of a sudden the fucking pirate went off and that fucking trust came down and was swinging, right.

1:16:48 And and I was in 80. Eight, that was later, not that was in the 90s, that was like. No, no, it's this was, this was what it, what was it called the justice for all. And no, no, this is the justice for all this. Was before that, yeah. Yeah, this is right when JB got there. Yeah. And and it was because it was a piece of trust that came down and that was swinging and it told me he caught me off guard. And I remember his wife was that I was going holy shit. I know as as part of the show. It's a sense. I didn't know that they had done that earlier because I remember on I don't know if I think it was load and when they faked an accident. Sure. And they? Freaked out.

1:17:29 They did it with the pyro guy when the pyro guy was climbing up and then he kind of like he was falling down and stuff like that. You know, they've always done those. Those kind of cool. Yeah, I like that stuff. That's fun. So how did you get into all the heavy rock'n'roll stuff? Was that just through the people you met through Joan Jetter? People I met and like I said, you know, early on when I started with Joan Jett, that Paul O'Neill, you know, he was into all the metal stuff. You know, that's where sabotage came from. And then I ended up getting a gig with Megadeth in like 92. They had a big tour or whatever and I got on with that and which was cool.

1:18:10 That was just a couple years after we did that DO tour and I got to do Megadeth and that was awesome. You know, it was great. I had a Chris Kanzi, I don't know if you know Chris Kanzi, but he was, he was the production manager back then. And, and Chris Kanzi is also one of my longest friends that I've had in this industry. He was there right when I started with Jones Jet and I actually got him a gig as a guitar tech on Joan Jett. And then we spent a couple years with Joan Jett and then me and Chris Kansy. We just had so many good memories and everything. And then we had a blast working with that back in that day. But yeah, Megadeth and then run out to Megadeth. I did.

1:18:56 I did Anthrax. And then I just started. It just seemed like, you know, a lot of people work with the same bands and that genre, you know, so and I like that stuff. That's cool. When did you work with Mötley Crüe? Mötley Crüe was like 2000, I want to say 6789, something right around those years, yeah. And the first tour I did with Motley, we were opening up for Aerosmith. So so that was cool. And then after that we did like a crew fest and then crew fest, a little winter thing. And, and that's kind of what I did with them. You know, that they were another ones that I I worked with them and then the I had to lead to do TSO and then they called me back again and I said, yes, I'd love to work with you again. And then they were going to OK, can you leave? TSOI was going, no, I can't.

1:19:44 So they said OK, they did it. And then like the third time came around and they're going to like, can you, you know, you're going to leave to it. We need some light for all thousand. I can't do it. So they just moved on, you know? Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. I understand that. But you know, one of the guys that it seems to work out the best for somehow when it doesn't look like it's going to is Cosmo. Like Cosmo somehow this year like went from Judas Priest real smooth into ACDC, real smooth into Aerosmith and everybody like. You know, it seems like Steven Tyler goes into, you know, detox or something every time Cosmo needs to leave to go to AC, DC or something else.

1:20:26 It's like, oh, that worked out OK, you know? But not that I'm wishing poorly upon Steven Tyler because he's one of my. Favorite. You know, when I worked for him, when I worked for him, we were doing a tour. It was great. We were at Sturgis, right? And then I, my crew chief buddy was sitting right next to me. And then all of a sudden, you know, Steven comes down there. Boom, whatever next. Ain't no boom. He kind of falls off the stage. He falls off the stage, right? And I'm going like, oh shit. And then I let my buddy, he looked and he's like, this isn't good. And then he came out and then they can't defend. They didn't finish the show and then they cancelled the tour, right? And so we all went home, right? And then they started again in probably like six months or whatever, and we did another tour and all that stuff. But you know, he, he's a, he's an interesting character too as well.

1:21:16 Because he did TSO. So that's how I got yeah. He came out and sang a couple songs with us because our guy Paul O'Neill and our management company with Joan Jett, they managed Aerosmith for 20 years. They were called a Lieber Crabs, right? So, so he knew, he knew Steven and all that stuff. So we had him come out to do a couple shows in New Jersey and and he did that. And when he did before Steven called me, right? He called me on the phone, right. And I'm going like, OK, I was like, yeah, hey, you know, and I can tell Steven Tile, obviously. And he's like, hey, you know, you and you, the guy doing this, Tsoi said, well, yeah. I said, I said, aren't you coming to sing with us, You know? And next week he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, he goes. But I was just looking at the video stuff. He goes and do you do all this lighting? And I was going to like, well, yes, I, I just on the whole show, whatever, he goes, he goes, man. He goes, He goes, man, he goes, you know, you're doing lights for Aerosmith.

1:22:12 And I was going, OK, that's cool. You know, I said sure. I said, I said, hit me up when you get to the gig, whatever, you know, so, and I didn't really bother with him. I let him, everybody else wanted pictures, all that stuff. So I just kind of stayed at my lighting board. He did the first show and then in between the shows, he sent his guy out there that he said, hey, Steven wants to see you now. And I was going, oh, Jesus Christ. So I go in there and he's going like, man, he goes what the fuck? He goes, what the fuck? I said why? I said, you OK? He goes, He goes that's amazing shit. He goes that is amazing. He used you need to work for Aerosmith. I said, well, I said I've done a million tours with you already. I said I did Joan J and Aerosmith. I did Megadeth and Aerosmith, you know, and because they fired Megadeth on that tour, right?

1:22:57 And I was going, I did Mötley Crüe, you know, did another Jones jet thing, whatever. And so he goes, well you're fucking doing lights for Arrowsmith. And I did it for like 3 years, you know, It was cool. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a good resume builder, you know, they're a great band you. Know what, it was great. I got to meet a lot of people out there and so I still go to this day and I got to work with Aerosmith and. Just a troubled a troubled bunch though, you know, especially Steven. I mean, just haunted by. Haunted by himself, I guess I. Don't know, yes. And then you look at like a guy like Dave Mistain, same thing yeah. You know, these guys are just so I think, eccentric on.

1:23:39 It I have a funny Dave Mistain story that you'll get because you worked for him for a long time. But that Gigantor thing. So a friend of mine was the drum tech for Mike Portnoy with Dream Theater. And so a couple of us, he kept saying you gotta come see the show, you gotta come see the show. So we went in Orlando and it was the Hard Rock Live, I think, and it's got like an elevator that gets you between like caterings on one floor and all the different. You've been there, right, Right. Yeah, for that venue. So anyways, we go, my my buddy's a drummer. He wants to see Portnoy's drum kits. So we go down, the drum tech takes us down, shows us the kit and everything, and he goes, you guys hungry?

1:24:23 And we said, I don't know, maybe a snack or something. He goes, OK, just grab the elevator, go up to the next floor that's catering, and then I'll see you in the venue. And so we, we get on the elevator and Dave Mustaine and I think like one of the other guys from Metallica and a manager are on the elevator. And there's this little black girl who's the elevator operator. And he's Mustaine standing there with even a shittier look than normal on his face. Like, just like, I'm going to fucking kill everyone here, right? Like that kind of a look. And he goes, would you close the fucking door? And she goes, Sir, I told you the door isn't working very well. There's a problem with the elevator.

1:25:03 And he goes, well, then why the fuck did you pick these guys up? And we're all like, oh shit, you know, we're in trouble now. And he's and the door finally gets closed and, and it like gets halfway to the next floor and open the door opens like about 8 inches. And you know, you got a step that's like about a foot, like the elevator didn't go all the way and it didn't open all the way. And we're like peeling ourselves through the door because he's just ripping on this girl. Why the fuck do you just, I told you not to stop the elevator. I told you not to pick these guys up. And I mean, we were so uncomfortable, but it was such a Spinal Tap moment. You know, yeah, he's, I love Dave to death, but he's a, he's a character sometimes for sure. Pent up anger.

1:25:49 I mean, I guess he would, you know? But you know, hey, you know what I always say, like, listen, you know, if Dave was a nice guy or he said he is a nice guy, whatever. But if he just didn't have that whole personality, you know, he wouldn't have wrote the songs that he wrote. You know, that's just part of the. Songs out there that come from deep anger. You know what I mean? Just stuff like holy wars, you know, sweat, bullets, angry again, all that stuff is just for me. I just, I feel like it's just brilliant songwriting and he's, and he's not even, I don't even think he makes an effort. I mean, he makes an effort, but it's effortless. That's what I mean. I've met him three times.

1:26:30 My ex-wife worked for Geffen Records for EMI. She was a record person and so I went to a lot of shows either from my industry or from her industry. And so I met him a few times and it just seemed like every time I met him he was really mad. He just no smile, just very abrupt, very like what? Yeah, he's just always like that. I'm sure I know him pretty well too, as well. I still value him as a friend of mine, you know. He's super talented. He's like you said. I mean, some of the like, I can always listen to Megadeth, whereas sometimes Metallica gets on my nerves a little bit. I mean, you know, Megadeth, I can always listen to you. Know and I just did Megadeth just this past April, right. Oh, did you Yeah, in South America and oh man, I tell you what is just you know and Dave knows this too, as well as I just I just enjoyed running lights of that music. I really do, you know, it's got AI, got a big history with Megadeth and my daughter is kind of a product of Megadeth because on the Countdown to Extinction tour, right, I ended up getting up with the wardrobe girl and we got married and everything. Michelle and who was still a dear friend of mine to this day, but she's mother, my child, you know, So oh wow, always be a friend.

1:27:51 But we were married for years or whatever, So and that all just kind of came from Megadeth and stuff. That's really cool. That's really so in in South America. Do all the people like sing the guitar parts and stuff like the crowd you? Fuck yeah they do. Isn't that crazy? They sing all the little all the stuff they and yes, they sing guitar. Parts, they know all the little nuances to the songs and stuff, like it's crazy. We did. You know what with Megadeth, we went down there, we did. They did what they did. They did 17,000 people, one show in Mexico City and they did three shows in Argentina, two shows at Columbia and they just did amazing numbers and it was it was a pleasure to go down there and do that and that. Was really cool.

1:28:41 Nothing really special per SE, but I had a big white show, so it was really, it was lights and it was a backdrop. So I didn't have any video, no lasers, nothing like that was just only lights and a backdrop. Is there a lot of? Is there a lot of video on TSO? Yeah, I have a lot of video on to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, video. You almost got to have it these days. You know what I have? I have a love hate. I have a love hate relationship with video screens. I like it because I took on video when I was younger because I, I could control it. So I was going on, let me have the video stream, then I could put what I want on there and I could do kind of effects and I could do it in with the lights and everything.

1:29:21 So that's how I've always approached my show. I, I, I really feel like you get the best bang in your buck from video. That's that's really even with Megadeth was when I was making that previously we had video and and Dave Dave threw in some money to give some amazing content. I mean, some of the best looking content I've ever seen. So really and it goes right with the music and also also got Megadeth to do timecode. I mean, they don't do any tracks at all, right? But they do timecode and they play to a click, you know, and, and some sound effects or whatever, but you know, no tracks or nothing like that. But he implemented the time code for me so I can I can keep these videos on sync and they're perfect because they were very, very intense and precise videos, right? So I had to be that way.

1:30:14 And you know what? Dave embraced and everything, and now they still do the time code for the video and the lights. And well, for the lights, there's no video. But so yeah, it makes a difference. When when you're designing a show like what? What's your? What's your process? Well, usually like, you know, I'll, I'll go back and look at the previous show, you know, with like with T whether you did. It or not? No, no, no, what, what, what they did before, just like 5 finger death punch, OK, from that one, for example, you know, I, I didn't know what, that I've toured with them when I was a Megadeth, but I, I didn't know what their inner workings are and all that stuff. So you have to kind of go in there and kind of get an idea of what they've done before, you know, what gauge are they at?

1:30:57 How many trucks are they in? You know, I can't just design the show. I need a little bit of a gauge. I'm like, you know, OK, you know, you got you got five trucks, so you got 10 trucks or you got 12 trucks, whatever, you know, something like that. So I could design A show. So that's usually where I'll start like that. And then but like with TSO, with TSO, it's about the story, you know, because they do a story, right? So it's the story that we've been doing for past couple years is about a girl who's goes into this theater, right? And an abandoned theater for Christmas or whatever. So I, that's why I built the theater, right? And then years ago we did this other story.

1:31:38 It was called the Christmas Addict, right? There was a record to it and all this and, and what it was, it was a little girl in front of a toy box with the toy box halfway open and some light coming out of it, right? So I built a toy box and and that was just, it was awesome. And this year I have a big inflatable. I don't want to say what it is, but I think most people, they'll figure it out. But it's just big giant inflatable that I'm going to project on and it's going to be so intense. It's going to be awesome. That's cool. I'm going to come out and see it this year. Yeah, you got to check it out this year. It's all this projection mapping that I'm doing that's really just going to be, it's just going to be mind blowing. And, you know, I still have all the lies to Pyro, the lasers and all that stuff.

1:32:26 But for me, it's, it's about telling this story and this story I can tell with the, with the my projection mapping, you know, because there's, there's certain things that I'll pick up on like, OK, the guys, the guy has a person in the hospital. So I'll do a hospital while they're talking about because he does those narrations and everything. So I'll set up scenes to match the narration on the projection mapping. And, and that's how I do it. I just do. But your actual process, like when when you sit down to design A show, you know what, what are you using? Is it? Is it still hand drawn at all or? Is everything in vector. Works or how do you do it?

1:33:06 I've never been a hand drawer. I wish I could. That's a great talent. Yeah. I see some guys who could just draw like that. And it was like, Oh my God, you know me. I'd do it on the computer. So, you know, I'll do it in Cinema 4D. You know, a lot of times I'll do it. I'll do Cinema 4D. I'll put together design and then I'll animate a little bit and I'll have a camera come around the front and I have video on the video on the video walls. My movies that I do or you know, pretty spectacular. I mean, they're pretty. What do you mean movies that you do? See, I'll make a movie. I'll make a movie of like Tia so Francis like this year. So I I made a movie that shows the camera going over here, showing what the stage looks like, the video contents going, the lights are moving around, you know, and all the cameras moving the the trusses are moving and all that stuff.

1:33:59 And I'll put a song on there or whatever. So it kind of goes along with it And and that's how it looks like. A presentation. It's a presentation. For the band presentation that I do and I'll draw it first and it's like like Vectorworks and then I'll move it over to Cinema 4D and then I'll do that and then I'll animate it with Cinema 4D. And then I'll end up taking Final Cut Pro and then editing in like a, you know, a 2 minute video, you know, of, of what the design looks like at different angles and stuff like that. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, there you go. That's how, and that's how I'll do that. And then, you know, after that we evaluate if I need to change stuff. We change stuff.

1:34:40 I don't really go back and do another movie, you know, because the movie is about a, you know, a month process of doing this, you know, because I got to think of it first and then I got to build it. And then once I build it and all that stuff, then I got to animate it. And then I got to edit it to a video and then put a song on there and all that stuff. So. You ever go back and look at the video and go, yeah, this ended up pretty damn close? Yeah, well, yeah, all my stuff. Our production manager for TSO West Coast, Jeff Poguski, right? Yeah. So I'll always do these renderings and everything. And then when we sit in there, you know, midway through rehearsal, we're looking at it, He's going like, man, he goes fucking looks exactly like the drawing. That's cool, yeah.

1:35:20 So yeah, that's. How I love, I love renderings that that work out exactly, you know, where it's like, whoa, I mean, is that real or is that the. Render. You know what? I'll send you a little link of something to a couple of movies. You can look at it and check it out. Yeah, that'd be cool. That'd be really. I feel like sometimes I feel like, you know, people don't even realize what I do with these movies and everything. I mean, some of these things are just amazing, you know, And I think nowadays you could probably do it a little bit easier, so to speak. But you know, some of those movies I did, do you know, that took a lot of time and a lot of effort in there. Well, easier isn't always better and especially with AI coming on board now, as hard as it is right now. I mean oh there was a good ad the show of a cup. Look at him with the show.

1:36:08 I'm going to meet John today. He's going to show me some stuff. So yeah. So when I went to get a cup of coffee, I looked in cover. I saw this. I was going to like, OK, let me give him a little selfless advertiser. You go there. Considering they won't sponsor my effing podcast. No, but I love John. I love John I I worked with John for a minute. I'll tell him that today. I'll tell him that hey, I had your cup and they had to ban it because you're not allowed on the website. Him and I him and I were in lots of debates over the past few months over hockey because I'm in South Florida. So I'm a Panthers fan, of course, and and he's in Texas and is a Dallas Stars fan.

1:36:50 Yeah. And, you know, we're both technically French Canadian, even though I was born in western English speaking Canada, but my parents are French Canadian. So we're big hockey fans. We're both big hockey fans. I like. I love the hockey. Hockey in Vegas is amazing, you know? Well, they did. You guys still think it was gonna? They didn't know if it was gonna. Obviously somebody believed it was gonna work. But yeah. But oh, man, it's great. And do you know Sean? I was gonna ask you if you knew Sean, because what an incredible job he's done, man. Oh yeah, real. He's, he's an awesome buddy of mine and he's had me out to the games where I I'd work for them. I'd to push the little DF fifty across the the catwalk while they're doing the national anthem and stuff like that that.

1:37:33 Show is just incredible, like they just upped the bar so much with that show at the beginning. I I love what they've done, you know, Gumper too, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Gumper's got those, like, glass side seats that he has. He takes his little baby with the headphones on to the hockey games. Yeah. Yeah, you know, hockey's Gray here, man. It is. And yeah, it's just that's. Vegas, though, you could put anything. You could probably put professional pickleball there and they'd sell out the venue, you know? You're true. That's true. And it's amazing because they built that arena and the arena is always fucking full. And then there's an arena across the street at The MGM Grand, and then there's the Mandalay Bay over there, you know?

1:38:15 And you know what? They just have a million shows and all of them there's not. Wonder how baseball don't you guys have a baseball team coming right? That's the the. Other corner that I just mentioned those three corners and that's going to be on the other. Corner. I wonder how baseball will do because nobody really likes baseball. Yeah, I don't either, you know. You know, and I and I can't, you know, I think a lot would depend on when is hockey, I mean, when is baseball? Is that a summer sport or a winter or? You know, I don't even know the answer to that. I should, but I don't. I think it's I. Think it starts in like April is like spring training March or April. Oh right. And then it goes all the way through into like November or something. I guess the trick would be if that if they do that arena or that stadium, is it gonna be covered? Yeah.

1:39:06 That's. True, you know what I mean, I would guess. You'd have to. I would guess you'd have to because 120° sitting and watching a baseball game, I can't imagine doing that. No. And if the sun was coming down, you, you know what? You forget it. Sit out. Yeah, forget it. Have you been to a football game yet? I have, I have. I did one of the games a buddy of mine took me and it was it was great. We sat right there on the end zone and. It was like. Yes, correct. Oh, and I, and I actually, I did over there, I did the Pro Bowl, the halftime for the Pro Bowl. So it was a Pro Bowl, but it was still the stadium and still like a little halftime thing where I had to go out there and have my lighting console.

1:39:48 I got the program, whatever. I got the program during the day, standing on the NFL logo. They hit a roped off, said nobody can stand on this, nobody can stand on this. And then when I was going like, OK, I need to put my line board, the guy was going, OK, I'm the only guy I could tell you this. You can stand in there. Yeah, but take your shoes off console. Yeah, yeah, I know, right. And I was going, Are you sure, man? Because. Yeah, because I'm the guy. And they put me inside there on top of the logo. I was going, oh, this is brilliant. That's so cool. Yeah, that's cool. That's a picture that you want to keep and. Yeah, I got that. Yeah, you. Got a lot of good pictures on the wall behind you I see. Yeah. Velvet Revolver, did you do that? I certainly good. That was a great band, a really good band.

1:40:30 And then that's all my shit there. Damn, look at you. Yeah, my ex-wife got all that stuff in the divorce, but it was all hers. So what are you going to do? I'm taking that. I want your Janet Jackson platinum record. Yeah, well, Brian, I appreciate you doing this. I know it was a pain in the ass getting on and all of that stuff and no man. I'm all good. I apologize for that, but no, no. It's all good technology technology. Yeah, and did you see my my, my nifty little microphone? There I do. Why is that colorful like that? What kind of was that? I had to do a podcast or something like that and I went and bought this one and that was the only thing I could find. And, and then when I did the podcast, I can't even remember who it was, but they were going like, oh dude, the the fucking microphone is amazing, you know, so. Maybe it was with Chris because Chris does a podcast. Chris Kanzie, I did.

1:41:24 Or he did do a podcast. I don't know he. Still does. He does, Yeah. And I did that. I don't. It wasn't Chris, though. It was. It was another it. Was the Chauvet thing that's where you got the cup? Maybe they. Interviewed you. It wasn't Chauvet. I can't remember who. Well, none of the other ones matter anyways. Brian, don't. Worry about it. Forget all those other fucking podcasts wannabes. Bunch of. Wannabes. Hey, man, I appreciate it. No, I appreciate you for one. Time. I know you've been busy and and I'm really happy that you were able to take some time and do this because I've been wanting to get you on and and you finally returned our e-mail, so that's good. Awesome, awesome. But I'm going to reach out to you and I'm going to come see. I'm going to come see that TSO thing.

1:42:06 I'll bring my girlfriend and. You have. To pretend it's a date night. We could do that and then we could do a follow up little podcast, if that. 'D be cool too. Yeah, we. Could talk about how easy it. Was. Once you see it, yeah, I know. Once you see it, then your perspective is going to be like, oh dude, I, I just couldn't believe this. You know, I. Believe it. You know, it's like somebody made me go to a Jean Michel Jarre concert one time and I was like, what the fuck is that? And it blew me away. It was just like lighting and lasers and like so much tech. I couldn't believe it. And it was in a stadium and I was like, man. Where'd this guy heard of right? I never even heard of it. Yeah.

1:42:47 Jazzy kind of stuff, but with lasers. So yeah, it was crazy. All right, buddy. Well, thank you so much and have a good one and good luck with everything. And I'll see you sometime in the winter.