#255 - Chris Lisle

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Just finished recording a really
great conversation with Chris

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Lyle, talking about his 33 year
career in the industry but also

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talking about his organization
that I believe he Co founded or

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founded and has a partner in it
or whatever it is, but it is

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called the Touring Career
Workshop.

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So Chris, again, Chris, Chris
Lyle Lighting Design is his

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company, CLLDLLCI think is his
company, but touring career

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Workshop, very, very important
organization that provides

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anything from mental health
support to sort of human

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resources for touring
professionals.

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And I think it's something
that's always been needed.

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It's a very, very important
topic, a very important group

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that, you know, helps people on
tax planning, helps people on

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investment planning, just helps
you be more of a professional

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and understand the things that
you don't know.

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So very good organization, great
guy.

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I hope you enjoy the podcast as
much as I enjoyed recording it.

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Thanks.
Hi and thanks for joining me

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today on Geez of Gear episode
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Hello.
And again, thanks for joining me

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00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:13,720
back for Geysers of Gear episode
#255 And so if you haven't heard

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the latest podcast, Scott DeVos,
excellent, awesome, great guy.

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He's, I think, fresh into
retirement, but probably still

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doing the odd gig and I'm just
enjoying the hell out of his

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life.
He's got great stories.

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He only had time to tell about
probably 10% of them.

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So we're going to have him back
on at some point.

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And also him and I, off the air,
talked about a really cool idea

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for LDI this year, which I
believe we're going to be

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launching under the Geese of the
Gear banner and more on that

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soon.
I can't tell you yet, but I will

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tell you soon.
And it's going to be fun.

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So look for that one this week.
No real big updates on AIA lot

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going on obviously, as there is
every week, but I just didn't

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have time to go discover a lot
of it.

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But yes, there is stuff
happening in AI and I promise to

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come back to you on the next
episode, which I will be

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recording tomorrow and I'll be
much better prepared.

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So with that said, trying to
think if there's any really

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cool, exciting industry gossip
that I need to share with you.

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And I can't think of anything
right now.

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Obviously, a ton of things going
on, lots of big tours.

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I was talking with someone
recently who told me that

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between the fall and next year,
it's the biggest pipeline he's

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had in his entire career as far
as shows coming up.

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And so that's a good sign, you
know, 'cause overall we're

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hearing lots and lots about, I'm
sure you heard about the layoffs

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that have happened.
Martin laid off some people,

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some very key people, including
I believe Jim Fuller, who as I

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recall, I think I hired Jim and
I left Martin in 97.

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So he's been there for a long,
long time, from 97 until today

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at least.
And I don't want to speak out of

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turn here or anything, but, you
know, certainly a good guy who

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who has attached his his wagon
to the Martin brand for a very

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long time.
And unfortunately, this is

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corporate Business Today in the
lighting industry and sound and

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touring and everything else.
You know, I mean, it's all about

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what have you done for me lately
at this point.

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And I'm not slamming Martin
because they're not the only one

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I've heard.
And again, this is just a rumor,

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so I haven't confirmed it or
anything, but I heard Verilite

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cut about 10% of their staff.
I heard Ari has cut about 300

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people and there are other
companies as well.

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So there's a lot going on out
there and not all good, but

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fortunately our industry's still
doing really well.

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People are telling me about huge
stuff going on between now and

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next year.
And so I think overall we're in

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a good place.
I think we're seeing a bit of a

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blip right now.
I think there's sort of a, a

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shift happening, a changing of
the guard as it relates to just

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sales and and progress and stuff
that's happening in our

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industry.
So let's see, you know, of

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course, if anything comes to me,
I'll let you know.

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I'm happy to share that
information with you at any

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time.
And so with that said, today's

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guest I'm looking forward to, as
I do all of them.

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I don't have a great
relationship or I should say I

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don't have much of a
relationship with this, this

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gentleman.
We haven't worked together much,

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I don't think.
I've probably sold him some

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stuff over the years.
But Chris Lyle has over 32 years

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experience in the entertainment
industry.

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He has worked in a variety of
roles including production

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designer, lighting designer,
production manager, show

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producer.
Chris started Chris Lyle

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Lighting Design in 1991 and is
also the Co founder and

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executive director of the
Touring Career Workshop, which

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is a nonprofit that serves as
human resources for tour

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production professionals,
Touring production

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professionals.
So I'm really looking forward to

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talk about that particular thing
'cause it's something where I

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believe we've needed help for a
very long time.

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I know another group that was
trying to set something up in

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that regard, might even be the
same group, I don't know.

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But looking forward to
discussing that.

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Again, I think it's a huge need
in our industry and so please

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join me in Welcome Chris Lyle to
Geysers of Gear Chris, hello,

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how are you I'm.
Great.

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How you doing?
I'm doing OK.

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I'm sniffling because it's smoky
here.

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I'm up in the Canadian Rocky
Mountains.

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And so I'm, I don't know if you
know the area, but I'm really

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close to Banff.
OK, yeah.

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And And so just up the road is
Jasper, and Jasper has some

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pretty wicked forest fires going
on right now.

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And so it's all blowing this
direction for some reason.

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And so like yesterday was
unbearable.

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We had to close all the doors
and windows and stay inside all

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day because it was It was nasty
yesterday but.

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But you're safe from the fires.
You're good there.

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Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, you
know what, we live on the side

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of a mountain in in a forest,
and so you're never totally safe

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from fires, right?
But yeah, I mean, I've had this

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house 20 years, hasn't burnt
down yet.

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Knock on my wooden head.
Not that I'm tempting it to burn

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down or anything, but, but yeah,
we're safe so far.

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I mean, they're pretty far away.
Jasper's, I think about a three

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hour drive from here, 2 1/2 to
three hour drive, so.

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You know, it's funny you say
Jasper.

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We have two dogs, of which the
old, the oldest dog is a pug

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named Jasper.
And I call him, I call him

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Methuselah because it is
literally the oldest, oldest

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living creature that I know,
that I know of this dog's like,

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however old dogs can be like,
he's past that.

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He's blind, he's deaf, he runs
into walls.

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But you know, he's the kids,
he's the kids childhood pets.

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So we're we're keeping them
around.

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He's still waddling around and
he finds his food.

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So God bless him.
But yeah, that's when I when I

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hear Jasper, I think of poor
Methuselah and they're just

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talking to the wall.
That's that's hilarious.

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Yeah.
So I mean, actually, if you ever

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get a chance to come to Alberta
and to this area, the Canadian

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Rockies, Jasper is actually a
really beautiful town.

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But unfortunately, just like the
town that I live in, it's just

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gotten crazy, crazy expensive,
crazy expensive.

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Like there's a pretty popular
hotel called the Jasper Park

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Lodge, which I used to just go
to for sort of a staycation, you

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know, because you could get a
room for 175 bucks a night or

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something and spend a nice
weekend there and have some

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dinners or whatever.
Now it's like 6 or 7 or 1000 a

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night or whatever.
It's just, it's gotten stupid

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to, to, I'm so fortunate and
grateful that like, I've had

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this house for 20 years up here
in, in Alberta.

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And for the 1st 17 years, I
would come up with my now

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ex-wife and my son for two or
three weeks every summer and

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then just loan it out to
friends, rent it out

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occasionally if I could.
And, but you know, for the last

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few years I've just spent the
entire summer here.

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So I come up in May or June and
go back in September or October.

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So it's fantastic.
I love.

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It.
Very grateful.

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Yeah.
And then Florida in the winter.

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So people say that's perfect.
You know, you have the perfect

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00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,040
situation.
Well, it feels pretty good.

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00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,320
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah.

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00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,840
So where are you?
I'm in a suburb of Nashville,

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00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,240
Brentwood, TN, so I'm just
southeast of town.

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00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,720
Oh cool.
Yeah, I grew up here.

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00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,400
This is actually my home.
Nashville is and when we, my

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00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,640
wife and I got married during
the pandemic and we because none

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00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,720
of us were working during the
pandemic, it was hard to get

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00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,560
alone during the pandemic.
So we had to wait a couple years

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00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:10,400
before we were able to finally
get our home that would hold our

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00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:11,800
whole flock of children that we
have.

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00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,360
And so we moved here last
January and love it.

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00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,000
It's been a great home for us
and.

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00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:18,720
Oh, wow.
Good for you.

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00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,840
Yeah, good for you.
That's fantastic.

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00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,800
I, you know, I I haven't been to
Nashville in a few years now.

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00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,440
I know it changes every single
year.

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00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,440
It just keeps getting crazier,
but it's such a great area that

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00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,160
I love Tennessee, I love
Nashville.

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00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,160
It's such a great area, such a
great city.

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00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,640
I'm so happy to see what's
happened with our industry in

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00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,040
Nashville, too.
Oh, absolutely.

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00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,240
Yeah, that's even in my career.
I'm on year 33 of my career and

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00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,400
I love watching what it's become
beyond music, beyond the actual

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00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,560
recording of music in Nashville.
What production houses are here

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00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,080
in the rehearsal facilities with
Bright Nashville come to town?

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00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:02,000
It's become this hub for touring
all drivers and absolutely it's

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00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,680
it's a beautiful thing to see
for sure.

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00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,320
I remember when it was just like
Bandit and TLS, you know, and,

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00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,200
and a tour was a dozen I beams
and, you know, that was about

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00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,520
it, you know, and then all of a
sudden country acts started

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00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,320
carrying bigger rigs than than
rock'n'roll acts.

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00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,640
And it was like, wait a second,
what just happened?

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00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,520
Right.
So and then it all just kind of

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00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,400
blended there in Nashville and
you had rock'n'roll people,

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00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,720
country people, everybody.
So yeah, it's it's a.

226
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,520
Beautiful thing it's and I feel
like, you know, a different

227
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,520
vendor opens a shop here every
month it feels like but you know

228
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,600
there.
Or, more commonly, buys one.

229
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,240
Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah.
That, there's that, there's

230
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,200
that.
But it's, there seems to be

231
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,680
enough work for everybody.
And so everybody seems to be

232
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,560
thriving and doing well from,
from, from an outsider looking

233
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:52,600
in on the vendor world.
So.

234
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,440
Yeah, you know, I hate to be a
doomsday or anything, but

235
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,720
imagine what it'd look like if
if, God forbid there were a blip

236
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,920
in our industry, you know,
similar to COVID, but maybe just

237
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,440
impacting our industry for some
reason, like some weird strike

238
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,440
or, or something happened.
I it would really impact that

239
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,360
local economy, you would think,
because there are so many

240
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,800
lighting sound vendors and
everyone else, everything, you

241
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,440
know, busing companies, trucking
companies, everybody based on a

242
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,840
Nashville.
Yeah, no, you're, you're right.

243
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,880
No, that's hopefully we don't go
through that.

244
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,120
I think we're all yeah.
Battle Scars from 20, 2020-2021.

245
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,520
And we made it and.
Hopefully we don't have to

246
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:37,560
revisit that anytime soon.
I don't.

247
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,000
Even like to talk about it
anymore.

248
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,960
It's just such a it's such a
horrible period of time to look

249
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,160
back to it.
Every once in a while I go back

250
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,400
and I'll watch one of those Zoom
calls that I was doing during,

251
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,280
during COVID, we were doing a
weekly Zoom call every

252
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,600
Wednesday.
I don't remember if you ever

253
00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:00,080
joined it or not, but you know,
some of them were super fun and

254
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,840
really awesome and some of them
were just downright depressing.

255
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,600
And, and you know, they all
served a purpose.

256
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,640
But just what we went through as
an industry and as a as a world,

257
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,120
as a nation, as a whatever, as a
humanity, what we went through

258
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,680
was just insane.
It was.

259
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,000
Absolutely.
But yeah, so how's your summer

260
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,720
going?
Like you're crazy busy like

261
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,680
everybody else or.
We're busy.

262
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,000
We do so many festivals now that
summer is obviously peak

263
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,960
festival season.
So yeah, we're, we're, we're

264
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,120
busy.
You know, we these days I'm

265
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,520
balancing my career between, you
know, festival and tour lighting

266
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,240
design, special event lighting
design, but also doing some

267
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,320
production management.
It's something I've done, you

268
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,000
know, even as a touring guy
early in my career, I did some

269
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440
production management work, but
also event production

270
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,280
management.
So between those hats that we

271
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,880
wear, I mean, we've, we've,
we've definitely had a busy year

272
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,640
and it's nice.
I mean, I look, you know, talk

273
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:58,640
about coming out of the
pandemic.

274
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,040
What are you grateful for?
I'm grateful for work, and you

275
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,760
know, that's one thing I learned
is to be grateful for what I

276
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:04,960
have.
Definitely feel that.

277
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,000
Oh, hell yeah.
And also maybe to save some

278
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,960
money.
You know, I think that's what a

279
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,800
lot of friends of mine in the
industry have been like, you

280
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,760
know, well, because, you know,
I, I fell into business like

281
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,360
most people in our our industry
did.

282
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,520
You know, I didn't go to
Business School and say I'm

283
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,840
going to open a company that
does this and this and this and

284
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,440
this.
I just kind of, OK, there's an

285
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,160
opportunity.
I'm going to go do that.

286
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,800
And they tell you to keep a cash
reserve on hand, you know, And

287
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,280
So what is that?
Well, that's enough money to pay

288
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,520
your bills and pay your staff
for 30 to 60 days in case shit

289
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:46,640
hits the fan, basically.
And but nobody told you like two

290
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,720
years.
You know, I didn't read that in

291
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,280
any textbooks anywhere.
You know, two years of cash

292
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,520
reserves.
Well, and you know, the the

293
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,440
crazy thing and you know, I know
you know this, but speaking on

294
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,080
the touring side of things,
touring, you know, historically

295
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,319
has been cyclical where come
November, December, people are,

296
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,680
you know, they're off for the
year minus a few Christmas

297
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,200
tours.
So November, December, January,

298
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,240
maybe February are the slow
times where you've been saving

299
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,960
up all year for those four slow
months.

300
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,280
And so people, the pandemic
hitting in in mid March when it

301
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,280
did or when the shutdown started
occurring came at a time where

302
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,080
people were just getting getting
ready to go back to work because

303
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,840
they burned through all it's.
Interesting.

304
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:33,800
I didn't know that.
Actually, I didn't.

305
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,640
I never really thought of that.
But you're, you're exactly

306
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,120
right.
Like it came at the worst

307
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:39,880
possible time.
For that, absolutely.

308
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,360
Yeah, because that was when they
were going to go back into their

309
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,120
big earning months.
Exactly.

310
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,240
March, April, you know,
rehearsals getting to around the

311
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,440
road for spring, summer.
And it was just gone.

312
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,920
And so, you know, yeah, it's,
it's, you know, it, it hit a

313
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,680
horrible time for that in that
regard.

314
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,960
Yeah, you know, the depressing
thing from all of that, or one

315
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,960
of many depressing things.
Every once in a while I'll send

316
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,720
out like a group e-mail like,
hey, this killer new listing

317
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,920
just came in on gear source.
You got to see this because it's

318
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,320
like, you know, 80% below market
price or something.

319
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,360
And I'll get back a whole bunch
of, you know, domain no longer

320
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,200
exists.
Domain no longer exists or I'll

321
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,160
get back.
Occasionally you'll get back

322
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,960
like a, a scripted response that
says, you know, Bob

323
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,160
unfortunately is no longer with
us.

324
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,200
He passed away and you know,
June of 2020 or something.

325
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,560
And I mean all of those like how
many companies went out of

326
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,720
existence during that time?
It's so depressing 'cause it.

327
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,200
Truly is.
As a small business guy like

328
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,040
you, you know how hard it is.
I mean, this is everyone thinks,

329
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,440
oh man, you're so lucky, you're
your own boss and all of that

330
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:53,960
stuff.
I mean, there's a lot of days

331
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,320
where I'm thinking, you know,
like, oh, that job over at Roby

332
00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,840
over there, it looks pretty
good.

333
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,480
You know, those guys get paid
well, and they paid you all the

334
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,400
way through the pandemic and,
and that kind of thing.

335
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,880
Like, I mean, I haven't been
paid in years because of that

336
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,440
stuff, you know?
So yeah, it's it's an

337
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,200
interesting thing.
It is.

338
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,440
Yeah.
So, you know, I don't really

339
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,880
know much about your career.
Like, I know we've been friends

340
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,160
on Facebook for a long time, but
we haven't been friends in real

341
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,760
life.
And so how did you get started?

342
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,600
Like you said you started 33
years ago I think, which is

343
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,240
about the same time I guess I
started ish, maybe a little

344
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,000
longer but similar.
Yeah, yeah.

345
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,400
I started in March of 91.
You know my story.

346
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,560
You know, again, I grew up here
in Nashville.

347
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,760
I, I attempted college.
I went to MTSUI, was going to

348
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,280
study advertising.
I, I went down there in August

349
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,640
of 1990 and by November of 1990,
I was gone.

350
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,080
You know, I found that
fraternities and hanging out

351
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,360
with these at frat houses and
drinking beer was more fun than

352
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,520
going to class.
So yeah, I I made it just a few

353
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,720
months and I dropped out.
And then early 91 finds me

354
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,440
working, you know, delivering
food.

355
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,560
You know, there's a place called
Steak Out.

356
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,040
We delivered steaks and
hamburgers and stuff.

357
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,840
And two of the delivery drivers,
I had a band.

358
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,160
And literally my career started
by hanging out with these guys,

359
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,280
getting to be friends with them.
And one of them inevitably

360
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,160
booking shows out in Oregon and
Washington state and going, hey,

361
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,640
what do you think about coming
on the road and running lights

362
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,960
for us?
Like, yeah, that, that sounds

363
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,360
cool.
I know nothing about lights, but

364
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:39,160
I love travel.
I love music.

365
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,280
That's hilarious.
Let's learn lighting.

366
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,280
And so I I got paired up with a
guy here in town named Tim

367
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,520
Ranson.
Tim had a company called Delta

368
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,160
Stage Lighting.
Unfortunately, they're out of

369
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:49,520
business.
I.

370
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,520
Remember.
I remember Tim and I remember

371
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,200
Delta.
Yeah.

372
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,840
Yeah, Tim, a great man.
Really, really great man.

373
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,200
Yeah, he he took me under his
wing and taught me enough to Get

374
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,160
Me Out on this tour.
And when I say tour, we had a

375
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,280
converted bread truck, like
literally a bread truck that

376
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,240
held the gear that two people
rode the bread truck and the

377
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,600
other four or five people rode
in.

378
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,040
AI think he had like a Toyota
Celica or whatever he had.

379
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,120
And we followed each other.
We started in Birmingham, AL and

380
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,880
we drove all the way to bend OR
in these two vehicles.

381
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,840
Couple, yeah, couple breakdowns
along the way and but anyways,

382
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,040
we went out, did these four
shows and played some high

383
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:33,000
schools and stuff and it was, I
had so much fun.

384
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,320
I was around live music, which I
always loved, and I was in the

385
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,320
state I'd never been to after
going through states I'd never

386
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,000
been to and in just the
creativity of of Light, which at

387
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,560
that time was a parking rig,
really drew me in.

388
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,400
And then but.
But before you got to bend OR

389
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,080
like, did you at least study the
console or whatever the the I

390
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,560
mean, it was probably like some
2 scene thing or something,

391
00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,280
right?
Yeah.

392
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,880
Yeah, yeah, it was a Leprechaun
2 scene board, but.

393
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,120
Did you go in the shop and
practice a little bit or

394
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,880
something?
Yeah, I did.

395
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,000
I you know Tim because it was
Tim's gear and he was renting it

396
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,680
to this, to this artist.
He taught me how to build the

397
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,200
system.
He showed me the difference

398
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,400
between a very narrow lamp, you
know, a narrow, a medium, and a

399
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,720
wide.
He showed me, you know, about

400
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,800
picking colored gels and why you
would use certain color

401
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,680
combinations with what?
But we're talking, I mean, I had

402
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,200
a back trust with 16 park hands
and two trees on the front with

403
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,400
four park hands each.
And that was it, a four piece

404
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,800
band on stage.
And I, I thought, I thought this

405
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,080
is the coolest thing.
But yeah, I honestly, once I

406
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,920
knew I was going to do this too,
I went to a couple shows at 328

407
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,600
Performance Hall, which is now
gone Music Hall here in

408
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080
Nashville, and just watched.
And I stood over by the LD and

409
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,640
just watched like, OK, oh, I see
what they're doing.

410
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,640
They're keeping in time with the
kick drum or, or they're hitting

411
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,680
these snare hits.
I see what's going on here.

412
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,800
And I wasn't a musician.
I've never, you know,

413
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,920
unfortunately I just never had
that opportunity to have music

414
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,400
lessons growing up.
But I, I love music.

415
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,560
And, but yeah, I watched the LDS
at these clubs and then went out

416
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,080
and tried my best to, to do the
same thing.

417
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,840
And I'm sure that those first
few shows, I don't know if they

418
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,880
exist on VHS, but they had to be
awful.

419
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,080
I'm pretty sure I used Christmas
colors on some, some heavy metal

420
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,920
rock songs like Reds and greens.
I don't know, maybe that works.

421
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:27,440
But well, your timing might not
have been great unless you had a

422
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,440
background as a drummer a little
bit too.

423
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,000
You know, that's one of the
things that probably takes a bit

424
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,720
of time to to gather yourself on
is getting good timing on the

425
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,080
light.
It's not just flashing different

426
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,800
colors all the time.
And look at me.

427
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,720
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's
what the first show was.

428
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,320
I'm almost positive that it was
that bad.

429
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,920
But you grow and you learn.
That's my career has been a

430
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,000
series of grow and learn
lessons.

431
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,240
Yeah, finding your way and
making mistakes and learning

432
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:56,760
from them.
So.

433
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Yeah, well, that's, that's how
you do it.

434
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,240
And, you know, couple of things.
So one have you ever thought of

435
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,880
what would your life look like
if you stayed in advertising

436
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,360
school?
I think about that every day.

437
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,360
Do you really?
Well, I mean.

438
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,480
In a good way or a bad way?
Well, no, I've had, look, I'm

439
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,960
kind of in a some way, I mean,
I'm the only one of my four

440
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,000
siblings to drive out.
The other three siblings went

441
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,240
and got college degrees and have
excelled in their careers.

442
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,360
When I dropped out, it was
tough, you know, for parental,

443
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,840
you know, having to answer to my
parents for what I had done

444
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,760
after they put us all they, that
my parents, we grew up blue

445
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,160
collar and they put all four of
us through private school just

446
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,800
to ensure we had a great
education and we.

447
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,040
Did it?
And then I get to college and

448
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,640
pissed it away, but I had a fire
inside of me and I took that

449
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,200
fire and just, and I, I learned,
you know, I took it and made my

450
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,760
career out of it what I could
and tried to prove that you

451
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,560
didn't have to go to college to
be successful.

452
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,440
And I feel like I did that.
Yeah, good for you, man, Good

453
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,600
for you.
Similar, I mean not really that

454
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,360
similar because I didn't have
siblings who were competing with

455
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,560
me going to college and all of
those types of things.

456
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Growing up in Canada, it was a
lot different because people

457
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,360
didn't really go to College in
the city that I grew up in.

458
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,640
It was kind of like you, you
barely made it through high

459
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,520
school if you did, and then you
went and got a job and you know,

460
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,080
I didn't want to do that.
So I joined a band and, you

461
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,600
know, toured as a musician until
I realized that I was spending

462
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,720
250 on beer every week and
making 200.

463
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,920
And the arithmetic didn't work,
as George Bush used to say.

464
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,320
And so, you know, that got me
looking to.

465
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,720
OK, I like music.
I like concerts.

466
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,320
I like all this stuff.
How can I make a living without,

467
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,720
you know, losing money every
week on the road?

468
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,720
And but, yeah, so that's, that's
interesting that that you look

469
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,360
back and you don't regret it
because, you know, certainly,

470
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,240
yeah, in the advertising world,
you probably would have made

471
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,560
more money, but you would have
had a much more boring life.

472
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,120
That and this is my path.
I'm doing what I was.

473
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Good for you and for you.
Serving my purpose.

474
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,880
And you know, honestly, now that
I'm a father of four, we have a

475
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,560
blended family of four kids.
It is, I am a firm believer.

476
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,040
I think college is great.
I think if you're cut for that.

477
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,400
And I think we need people to,
for the, for society to function

478
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,360
and have college degrees, but
it's not necessary.

479
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,760
And all of our kids have taken
different paths.

480
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,880
And out of our four kids, we had
one go to junior college and one

481
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,760
is going to actual university.
But we have AUS Marine.

482
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,840
And then my, the youngest who
wants to go to welding wants to

483
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,080
go to tech school and learn
welding.

484
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,080
And I love every bit of that.
That's why.

485
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,240
That's amazing.
I, I love that too.

486
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,880
And, and I love that you support
that because I'm the same way

487
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,680
with my son.
Like I created a college fund

488
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,440
for him when he was born.
The money's there.

489
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,320
And, you know, he went down a
different path being a racing

490
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,160
driver for a while, but you
know, now he's like, he's still

491
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,240
driving, but he's also thinking
what's next?

492
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,720
And you know, he thinks he wants
to be an entrepreneur.

493
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560
He thinks he wants to do similar
to what I've done.

494
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,600
He's pretty smart like that.
And you know, my only advice to

495
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,960
him is if you can do something
that you love to do and get paid

496
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,720
for it, you've won life.
You know, you, you've basically

497
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,720
won life.
You're you're where you want to

498
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,400
be doing what you want to be
doing.

499
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,520
And guess what?
It's also paying the bills

500
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,800
you've won.
So be passionate about what

501
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,120
you're doing.
Don't just, you know, I could

502
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,000
have made a lot more money in a
lot of other industries than

503
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200
ours, but I really like the
people and I really like the the

504
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,880
feel and the atmosphere and
stuff in our industry.

505
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,960
I like show business and I
completely.

506
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,000
Agree with you.
I think it's a it's a magical

507
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,680
dysfunctional world, there's no
doubt.

508
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,440
So tell me more about the the
the from the that first band.

509
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,080
So the first weekend went pretty
badly and then what happened?

510
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,960
What we we're, you know, we're,
we're driving home.

511
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,520
We did these four shows.
It was great.

512
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,840
You know, it was fine.
So you drove?

513
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,840
Across the country just to do 4
shows.

514
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,480
Yeah.
Oh wow, so that wasn't

515
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,680
profitable.
No, there's no way.

516
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,360
No, no, no.
And we were like, you know, four

517
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,800
or five to a Room 0.
Jeez.

518
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,000
But I didn't know any better.
Like literally I thought this

519
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,560
was the best thing that in the
world.

520
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,360
I thought, wow, how cool is
this?

521
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,320
I'm in this converted milk truck
carrying these metal lighting

522
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,000
fixtures across the country and
all of a sudden I'm traveling

523
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,480
through 15 different states
there and back that I never

524
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,000
would have.
Never been to Yeah, I love that.

525
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,080
In my aha moment, and I tell
this story a lot because it's

526
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,880
true, I believe in aha moments
and I I and aha moments were

527
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,400
what I wish for my own children.
But my aha moment was my turn to

528
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,880
drive.
And I'll never forget we were

529
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,840
coming back across.
The shows are done and we're

530
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,560
driving through Wyoming, which
if you've driven through

531
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,480
Wyoming, is a beautiful state.
It's very flat in places.

532
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,240
But anyways, I'm driving and
it's about 5:00 AM.

533
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,160
We're heading east and like,
there's a killer.

534
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,520
I think I was like a Kansas
cassette.

535
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,600
And we're listening this Kansas
cassette and the sun is rising.

536
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,680
And my high moment was, I love
everything about what's

537
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,360
happening right now and this is
exactly what I want to do.

538
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,480
For the rest of that is so cool.
That is amazing.

539
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,440
I love that story and.
I don't regret it, man.

540
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,520
I mean, has it been hard?
Yeah, absolutely.

541
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,760
The hardest part were at that
time really figuring out how to

542
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,840
how to get into the industry and
how to make make how can I go

543
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,520
pay my bills doing what I want
for a living.

544
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:47,720
And honestly, that's 1991.
I did not go and and was able to

545
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,360
tour like as a career until 95 S
91 to 95 in my life is this era

546
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,760
of literally I worked at
McDonald's, I did land

547
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600
surveying, I worked at Sears
putting tires on cars.

548
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,360
But then I'd go gig on weekends
for little local lighting

549
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,000
companies or little small bands
that could afford to pay me the

550
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,440
literally 25 to $50 a show that
that time.

551
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,320
And but I, I just wanted to do
it and I was like, whatever I

552
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,840
need to do at that time, if I've
got to go work this shitty job

553
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,760
just to be able to go and still
go do lights on the weekends,

554
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,880
that's.
Well, and learning your trade

555
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,440
too, like getting better at it,
practicing basically getting

556
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,760
paid a tiny little bit of money
to get better at what you really

557
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:35,040
want to be doing for your life.
So I love that BB on the aha

558
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,320
moments because I, I used to
always talk to people like that

559
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,960
about that on this podcast.
You know, the aha moments are

560
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,360
one of the things that really
just keep you coming back and

561
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,480
back and back.
You know, in golf it's, it's

562
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,280
sinking that 40 foot putt or, or
getting a hole in one or

563
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,880
whatever.
In our industry, it's you know,

564
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,680
house lights out and, and you
know, the crowd goes nuts and

565
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,760
that first note of the first
song when the lights come on,

566
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,040
it's incredible.
And every LD that I know is like

567
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,880
gets goosebumps when you talk
about that even though they've

568
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,760
done it 1000 times or more so.
Completely agree.

569
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,480
And, and I'll add me to that
list because if, if you were to

570
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,720
ask me what's my favorite part
about a show, man, the the sound

571
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,960
the crowd makes when the house
lights go down, it's always,

572
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,720
man, there's something about
that.

573
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,120
Yeah.
I've never taken that moment for

574
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,160
granted.
And, and you know, as I stepped

575
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,080
away from the role of as of
being a touring LD years ago and

576
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,560
becoming more of a designer as
I've designed tours and I'm

577
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,920
having, you know, the
conversations with the touring

578
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,920
LD and we're working on the
focuses during the day and

579
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,200
things like that.
One of the things I always point

580
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,840
out to the LDS is I want you to,
and this is going to sound

581
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,520
cheesy and I recognize that, but
I mean, what I'm about to say is

582
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,360
I want you to, to look around
the arena and look way up high

583
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,400
in the 300 level.
Look around.

584
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,880
And I want you to think about
this, that tonight is somebody'd

585
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,960
date night that they've been
saving a lot of money for that

586
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,680
they probably couldn't afford to
go to.

587
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,080
Tonight is somebody'd very first
concert.

588
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,520
Tonight maybe somebody'd very
last concert.

589
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,720
So everybody in this room
matters.

590
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,120
And even if it's as easy as when
you do your audience wash, just

591
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,200
because you're at front of
house, that's not where the

592
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,760
whole audience is.
You look around all 270° of the

593
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,520
arena and paint the audience as
it's sold and let everybody have

594
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,920
an experience.
Yeah, You know, Chris, that's

595
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,440
such an important point.
And and if you ever get a

596
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,120
chance, listen to the podcast
that actually just came out

597
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,920
today with Scott DeVos, who you
probably know another local, but

598
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,200
we talked about that same thing.
He he just said, every single

599
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,360
person in here is creating a
story.

600
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,760
And like a lot of these people
are gonna 30 years from now say,

601
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,040
you know, I was in so and so
place and I saw such and such

602
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,840
band and I'll never forget blah,
blah, blah, whatever happened.

603
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,880
And sometimes it's a lighting
look, sometimes it's a note that

604
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,640
somebody played or a guitar
solo.

605
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,560
You know, sometimes the singer
fell off the stage because they

606
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,320
were drunk.
You know, I mean, just all of

607
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,520
those things.
These are memories being

608
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,200
created.
And if you undervalue that, you

609
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,040
probably don't belong in this
business.

610
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,960
You know, it's such an important
thing.

611
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,840
It's very important.
You were saying your favorite

612
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,800
moment every night is, you know,
house lights out and the

613
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:23,600
audience goes.
Nuts.

614
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,400
I would I would give you an an
example where that doesn't count

615
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,440
or or when that's not my
favorite moment.

616
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,080
So in the same year I was
involved with, I think Steve

617
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,120
Cohen had both Brittany and
*NSYNC.

618
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,560
And this was like in the 90s or
2000 or something when they were

619
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,880
both at, at the pinnacle of
their career.

620
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,160
House lights go out.
I've never heard a sound like

621
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,560
this.
Like, it's probably one of the

622
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,240
only times that I actually wore
earplugs at A at a concert.

623
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,600
And it wasn't because of the
music, it was because of the

624
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,240
audience started screaming when
the house lights went out.

625
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,000
And they never stopped until
after the last when the house

626
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,280
lights came back on, basically.
Yeah, they never stopped.

627
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,080
Have you had a chance?
And I haven't seen this, but

628
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,120
have you seen Taylor Swift?
Have you seen the Era tour at

629
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:13,120
all?
Nope.

630
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,159
I'm, I, I from colleagues that
have gone, it sounds like a

631
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,280
similar experience, like that
sounds like an immersive

632
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,520
audience experience that really
you talk about people that

633
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,480
there's definitely a lot of
people going to the first

634
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,760
concert in that crowd, but
they're having just such a good

635
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,320
time.
They're pretty passionate I've

636
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,520
heard.
That in there does not stop all

637
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,719
night, that it's just yeah.
So that's.

638
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,480
Yeah.
You know, as great as Taylor

639
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,520
Swift is and as much money as
she's made and as I'm sure the

640
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,159
show is wonderful and stuff,
I've gotten to an age and to a

641
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,400
point in my career where I don't
really go to shows unless I kind

642
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,280
of want to see them or unless
there's people there that I

643
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,800
really, really need to see or
want to see.

644
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,400
And she just didn't check any of
those boxes.

645
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,280
So, you know, I've avoided that
one somehow.

646
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,880
But anyways, yeah.
So it's funny how we get jaded

647
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,200
about concerts and and my wife,
I love her.

648
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,600
She's a huge concert person and
love concerts.

649
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,520
And like, literally I'm like you
just said, I'm at the point

650
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,800
right now there's very few
people IA want to pay a ticket

651
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,080
to see and B even give me a comp
ticket that I really want to

652
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,120
see.
So I've had to learn to suck it

653
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,240
up.
And it's how, you know, you

654
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:28,960
still got to have date nights.
But like, we went and saw two

655
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,040
weeks ago, we went and saw
foreigner and Styx.

656
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,720
Yeah, and we bought a ticket and
and we had a great time, but I'm

657
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,720
literally there.
I'm like, you know, it's hard

658
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,120
not to get distracted, look up
at lights, but it was so fun.

659
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,720
Yeah, yeah.
Well, those are both great

660
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,680
bands, even though one of them
is a cover band.

661
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,920
But yeah, I mean, they're
they're both great bands and and

662
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,120
both have great and by the way,
they both sound incredible.

663
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,040
You know, again, Foreigner is a
cover band, unfortunately.

664
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,400
But but that singer, the guy
from what band was he in in the

665
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,920
80s?
He was in not Halloween, but one

666
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,840
of those kind of 80s.
No hurricane, hurricane.

667
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,760
That's what it was.
I knew it was an H word.

668
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,880
But he's a fantastic singer and
he's quitting now because I

669
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,840
think he's 70 or something.
But he he does an awesome Lou

670
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,800
Graham and they've just done an
incredible job carrying on that

671
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,920
legacy.
But there are no original

672
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,840
members in that band.
You know, every once in a while,

673
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,880
Lou Graham will come out and do
a song or what's his name, the

674
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,440
old guitar player will come out
and play a song.

675
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,760
But but Styx, like Tommy Shaw
blows my mind.

676
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:42,400
That guy is so talented and he
still sings so well and looks

677
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960
like a rock star still.
God bless him.

678
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,840
You know, I mean, there's,
there's a handful of those guys,

679
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:53,360
him, Steve Perry or Steve Perry.
Steven Tyler.

680
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,960
Sorry, I was mixing up a bunch
of people in there, but Steven

681
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,760
Tyler, Sammy Hagar doesn't look
so good anymore, but he still

682
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,040
sings like a bird at 76 years
old.

683
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,280
You know, those guys blow my
mind.

684
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:10,680
Like I know how hard it is.
I'm, I just turned 60 and doing

685
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,000
some of the things, especially
singing songs that I did in

686
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,760
bands in when I was in my late
teens, trying to do those now,

687
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,120
forget it.
I couldn't do it.

688
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,880
There's just no possibility, no.
I agree I'm not.

689
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,840
I feel I'm 51 now but I I think
every morning I'm reminded of my

690
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,520
age when my knees creak.
Oh yeah, yeah, I know all that

691
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:31,400
stuff.
Trust me.

692
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:35,440
You know, I have a remedy for
that, but we'll talk about that

693
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:41,440
later.
But yeah, it's age is, is not

694
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,160
something that any of us are
going to escape.

695
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,200
But, you know, there's certainly
ways to, to improve your journey

696
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,800
through age, I guess.
And that's what I've, I've been

697
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,640
focused on for the last 10 years
or so.

698
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,160
My dad died of a heart attack
when he was very young, 52 years

699
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,120
old.
And so I've always tried to ever

700
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,160
since at least I turned 50, you
know, mellowed out on the

701
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,640
drinking completely.
Like now a heavy night for me

702
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,120
might be two glasses of wine,
you know, and all the other bad

703
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,240
stuff has just been gone for
years, you know, So even I don't

704
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:17,560
even smoke cigars anymore.
I like on occasion I might have

705
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,800
one once every six months or
something.

706
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,480
But you know, it's, it's just
like live clean.

707
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,400
Yeah, I get it.
I try, I don't.

708
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,520
Yeah, I try, Yeah.
So you actually started your

709
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,240
company in 91, did you?
Well, I mean, I, I started in 91

710
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:41,440
my, I didn't become CLLDLLC
until, Oh my gosh, much later.

711
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,800
I wouldn't call it O 7 when I
actually formed the company, you

712
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,320
know, because again, I took this
journey of lighting director and

713
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,920
occasional production manager a
lot of my career, but realized I

714
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,320
started to get more into the
design phase of my career and I

715
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,560
actually bought a little bit of
gear.

716
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,520
I think I bought some consoles
from from some somebody from

717
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:02,640
you, maybe I.
Don't.

718
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,720
Yeah, yeah.
But then I decided to form the

719
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,600
LLC and and you know.
Smart, yeah.

720
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,480
Yeah, do do it the right way and
make sure I was covered, yeah.

721
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,360
So you said that until 95 you
were working any odd job you

722
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,440
could and and then doing lights
on the weekends.

723
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,520
So at what point did it become
like a full time gig?

724
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,960
So I got a call on April of 95
from a friend of mine that I've

725
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,440
been doing some of these club
shows with.

726
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,080
And as everybody, we all know,
you know, this relation, this

727
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,000
this industry's relationship
based.

728
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,600
Oh.
Yeah.

729
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,720
So this guy calls me.
I had a pager.

730
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,240
I had a pager and he beat me and
I was out.

731
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,360
Lancer.
Dang, he goes, hey, I got a tour

732
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,080
for you, but you got to leave
Sunday.

733
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,640
This is like a Tuesday, she
said.

734
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,560
You got to leave Sunday.
It's the Walmart Country Music

735
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,720
Across America tour.
I said whoa, and so he said call

736
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:56,520
this guy.
So I called this guy and I said

737
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:57,280
what?
What's going on?

738
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,040
He goes well we got this tour.
It plays Walmart parking lots

739
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,800
seven days a week.
The tour goes shit but it

740
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,760
already been going for.
Maybe 8 weeks at that point.

741
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,760
It goes all the way till late
October, seven days a week.

742
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,640
It's on a little SL 100 stage.
It's got like, I think I had 30

743
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,280
par cans, but we need somebody
to come be the LD and we need to

744
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,920
get somebody out there on
Sunday.

745
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,240
I'm like OK, so I sat there and
I thought about it's like, well

746
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:28,360
I've got to quit two jobs
because I was doing land

747
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,120
surveying during the day and
working at Sears at night

748
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,960
putting tires on cars.
I had my own duplex and I was

749
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,560
like, you know what, I'm going
to do it.

750
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,560
So within three or four days I
quit both jobs, put everything

751
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:45,920
in storage, broke my lease, and
on Saturday I picked up a 15

752
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,920
foot box truck that had some
replacement gear.

753
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,040
Drove to Sherman, TX just
outside of Dallas and the very

754
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,960
next day did my first of 181
shows straight on the wall.

755
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,680
Is it tour?
Seven days a week.

756
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,880
You were working for 181 days.
Days without a day.

757
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:05,800
Off.
Geez, you made some money.

758
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,720
Well, I mean at the time.
Well, let me tell you, it was

759
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:13,880
enough money that quitting both
jobs, I was like, Oh yeah, let's

760
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,840
do this.
But even now, now that I look

761
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,560
back, I was like, was that
really great money?

762
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,480
Probably.
But it it, it that tour and the

763
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,120
relationships I made on that
tour without a doubt started the

764
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,640
trajectory for my career to go
to the next level.

765
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,080
Because on that tour, every
Monday we got two new bands.

766
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,120
So you got to keep in mind this
is 95.

767
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,280
This is when that 90s area
country is just popping.

768
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,480
And so these labels would put
two new bands out every week to

769
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,920
play the Walmart tour.
So every every week I'm meeting

770
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,680
2 new TMS, 2 new PMS and I'm
this, you know, 2023 year old

771
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,640
kid, I guess at that time out
there flashing lights, you know,

772
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,840
during the day nonetheless and.
Yeah.

773
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,240
And I just met great people and
I learned to stay in touch with

774
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,120
them.
But man, I it was a fun tour.

775
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,720
Yeah, well, I, I mean, again,
what a way to build your chops

776
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:16,040
too, you know, like to learn so
much and meet so many people.

777
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,400
And, you know, I mean, what a
tough schedule, though. 181 days

778
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:22,560
straight.
Jesus.

779
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,640
Well, I, well, I want to be
clear.

780
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,800
So I let me just real quick,
I'll tell you our typical day.

781
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,640
And this is because it's we
would only drive 50 miles a day.

782
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,880
We had a an RV and a box truck
and then the stage and the stage

783
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,160
was pulled by a Dooley that had
a generator on the front.

784
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,920
And so we would load in about 9
or 10 by noon.

785
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,080
One O clock we were set up, the
bands would come in and sound

786
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,880
check.
One band would play 7 to 7:45,

787
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,960
the other one would play 8:00 to
8:45.

788
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,280
We were typically loaded and
loaded out by 93945 and we would

789
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,680
go get a hotel and and then
drive, get up the next morning,

790
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,080
drive 50 miles and do it all
over.

791
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,200
Again, so it wasn't brutal.
It wasn't like, yeah, like a

792
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,040
real load in.
We, we, we, we definitely, we

793
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,360
learned our Walmarts very well
and we learned, you know which

794
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,920
we, you know, definitely judge
them by the restroom cleanliness

795
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,320
if they had a McDonald's built
into it or.

796
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,280
Not.
We had a lot of fun that tour,

797
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,000
Probably too much fun because
the next year, that was 95, I

798
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,360
came back the next year.
The tour was so successful, they

799
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,000
did it.
The next year they went up a

800
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,200
stage size.
I went from being LD to stage

801
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,160
manager, but we all had to sign
waivers agreeing that we

802
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,880
wouldn't sleep with Walmart
employees.

803
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,400
That's funny.
That is funny.

804
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,200
Well, I can tell you right now,
I swear to God I've never slept

805
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,960
with a Walmart employee.
I'm going to.

806
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,120
Say that I, I, I, I was, I was a
good kid.

807
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,280
I yeah, I'm, I'm not probably, I
probably had some questionable

808
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,360
moments, but the waivers were
directed to other people that

809
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,560
just I felt that's.
So funny though.

810
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,920
That's hilarious that they felt
the need to do that.

811
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,760
Yeah.
That's, that's wild.

812
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,080
What a cool story.
And so a couple of questions.

813
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,000
One, did they pay your per diem
in like Walmart dollars or

814
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,280
something?
Yeah, we've done.

815
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,240
We got cash for DM, but man, we
got so bored.

816
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,040
We we would go.
We obviously we walked in

817
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,160
Walmart today.
The amount of useless shit I

818
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,120
came home with from that tour, I
had a whole crate of useless

819
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:35,040
shit like we would we would make
these rocket cars out of rocket

820
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,400
parts.
These Walmart sold the model

821
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,320
rocket it's and we would go buy
these big plastic cheap cars,

822
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,880
put rockets under them and have
rocket car races.

823
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,560
Then I think there was a fire,
so we couldn't do that anymore.

824
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:48,760
That's hilarious.
Yeah.

825
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,960
A lot of fun.
I mean, we were all kids, man.

826
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,120
Playing Wall, Yeah.
You know, well, I could only

827
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,560
imagine like, you know, for me,
because I've always been a

828
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,600
little bit entrepreneurial.
I think I would probably be

829
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,920
buying things in one town and
then finding the town.

830
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,360
I could return them and make a
profit, you know, So I'd buy

831
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,560
things just to return them and
I'd I'd be calling around going,

832
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:14,880
Hey, how much are your, you
know, ladies, bra model,

833
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,160
whatever, you know, and then I'd
buy forty of those and return

834
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,480
them in the next town or
something.

835
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,760
Yeah, man.
But anyways, yeah, that's that's

836
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,200
a cool story.
What a what a interesting way to

837
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,600
start your career.
I mean, really it's like bang,

838
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,600
here you go, you know, all at
once.

839
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,680
That's cool.
So you know, obviously from

840
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,640
there it's it's gone pretty well
and and you've built a real

841
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,600
career of it and a great career.
By the way, you've done a lot of

842
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,320
really cool stuff, which I want
to talk about.

843
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,760
But one other question I want to
ask before I forget you so or

844
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,480
before I forget about it before
I forget you.

845
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,240
You know, one of the really cool
things I love about being able

846
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:58,160
to do this podcast is the early
stories.

847
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,280
And you know, a lot of people
much older than you who talk

848
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,240
about like, you know, one day I
was just outside playing with

849
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,000
the kids and, and you know,
somebody drove up with a pickup

850
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,120
truck and said, Hey, jump in, I
got a gig for you.

851
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,400
And they're like, what's a gig?
Come on, you know, or whatever.

852
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,720
Like, you know, one day you're a
a sheep herder and the next day

853
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:24,440
you're on ACDC tour or
something, you know, and so many

854
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,360
careers in our industry.
And in fact, if you look at

855
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:33,360
people over maybe 55 or 60 years
old in our industry, almost all

856
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,960
of them didn't go to school for
this, didn't go to any kind of

857
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,360
theater or technical school or
anything.

858
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,960
They were at a crossroads in
their life.

859
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,000
And it was join the military or
go on tour with this band, you

860
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,880
know, or whatever it was.
And I think part of that is

861
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,040
because back then it was much
less structured.

862
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,920
Obviously we didn't know what,
it wasn't an industry.

863
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,920
It was sort of like a traveling
circus kind of thing, right?

864
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,440
And there weren't experts yet.
There wasn't a lot of expertise.

865
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,360
You know, it was pretty
simplistic systems and and

866
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,840
products and stuff like like you
said, a tree, you know, with

867
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,880
four lights on each side of the
stage or whatever.

868
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:20,480
But I think, like me, you've
probably noticed a big shift now

869
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,920
where obviously it's much more
corporate.

870
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,760
You do have a lot of training
available for people, much more

871
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,600
rigid formal training available
for people in schools.

872
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,400
And that's a good thing, right?
Absolutely.

873
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,120
Yeah.
It's great.

874
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,840
It seems like an easier path
than just winging it and hoping

875
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,120
that somebody comes and throws
you in the back of a pickup

876
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,600
truck or whatever.
Well, no, to your point, and I

877
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,440
know we're going to talk about
this, that's one of the reasons,

878
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,000
one of the reasons touring for a
workshop exists is because this

879
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,400
isn't a fly by the seat of your
pants kind of joke job that I

880
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,440
don't want to mean.
I shouldn't say joke job, but

881
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,000
I'm saying it.
I I feel like the career of

882
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,240
being and I don't like the word
roadie, but the career of being

883
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:04,920
in the live entertainment field
had a lot of negative

884
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:09,920
connotations in its early part,
early early adoption and and.

885
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,520
Some of them deserved.
You know what I'm saying?

886
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,760
Like vagabonds and, and, and
just maybe not well organized

887
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,640
and people just kind of flying
by the seat of their pants.

888
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,920
This is a sustainable real
career now.

889
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,680
And that's the big changes.
We've got people that can look

890
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,120
at this and go, no, I'm going to
do this for a living.

891
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,760
I'm going to retire doing this.
And I love what I do for a

892
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,960
living.
It's not a joke.

893
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,160
It's a serious.
Some of those negative things

894
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,120
you talk about I think are, are
well earned, you know, heavy

895
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:45,160
drug use and, and partying and
all this stuff, especially from

896
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,600
the 70s to the 90s kind of
thing.

897
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,440
Like I think when you got into
the 2000s, it started to get

898
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,480
more serious, more corporate.
I think a lot of companies

899
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,480
started having, you know, very
strict policies with regard to

900
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,280
what you were doing with your
downtime or what you were

901
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,400
ingesting in your body or
whatever.

902
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,480
You're even seeing healthier
food on tour buses and things

903
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,600
like that.
After show stuff is getting

904
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,680
healthier, which is all good.
And I'm sure you're a part of

905
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,920
that.
Your workshop is part of that.

906
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,440
And I wanna talk a whole bunch
about that.

907
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,360
But so some of it's deserved,
but I think there's still sort

908
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,880
of a negative.
The idea of our industry being,

909
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,400
you know, carny, it's it's a
carnival, it's a travelling

910
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,000
carnival.
And you know, those carnivals

911
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,120
that set up in parking lots, you
know, with the zipper and all of

912
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,400
those rides.
And I hate to say it, but most

913
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,840
of the people operating those
rides, I look at them and I'm

914
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,120
like, I ain't putting my kid on
that ride, you know, like they

915
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,440
look like they haven't showered
in two weeks and, and they're

916
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,000
high on something.
I don't know what, but they're

917
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,760
so they seem to be still where
we were like 30 years ago as an

918
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,320
industry, right?
So, but I, I think that there is

919
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,760
still there.
I think there are people

920
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,440
especially like my son, you
know, 'cause that's one of the

921
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,560
things I talked to my son about
who's 20 now.

922
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,680
And I said, would you be
interested in going on tour for

923
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,600
a couple years just to AC the
world B learn the industry and

924
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,160
then come back and work for me?
And and he's like, why would I

925
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,280
want to do that?
Like, what's that all about?

926
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,320
And he has no idea.
To him it, it just looks like a

927
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,520
weird thing, you know, like, why
would I do that?

928
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,600
That just seems really strange,
you know, But I think if he

929
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,080
actually went and did it for a
few months, he'd be hooked.

930
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,160
He'd he'd never want to do
anything different.

931
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:35,920
Right.
No, I agree.

932
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,680
Yeah, there's still a lot of
misconceptions about our world

933
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,960
and what happens and what goes
into it.

934
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:46,960
But yeah, I love how how much,
how far we've come.

935
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,720
I love how diverse our
industries become.

936
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,200
I mean.
You know, when I, when I was

937
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,440
first started to tour, most of
my career was, you know,

938
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,000
straight white males.
And we are so diverse now and I

939
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,640
love that, that we've become,
well, you know, 'cause we, I, I

940
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,920
use this term on another podcast
and I mean it, but we really are

941
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,400
this big goofy, I live a misfit
toys.

942
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,000
We're all unique in, in our own
ways and characteristics and got

943
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,720
our quirks and our things.
And it works.

944
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,480
We're all we all get the show
done and I love it.

945
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,880
You know, and it's not
dissimilar to the racing world,

946
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,400
you know, where, where I've
spent because of my kid the last

947
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:29,880
13 or 14 years, similar people,
very, very smart people who

948
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,600
travel with this circus, you
know, and you know, they're

949
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:40,200
racing engineers and they're
they're coaches and, you know,

950
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,840
just all these people with all
of this information and stuff,

951
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,800
but they're just looked at as a
bunch of goofball, you know,

952
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,960
mechanics, basically you're a
mechanic.

953
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,080
No, I'm a I'm a Motorsports
engineer.

954
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,880
And they actually went to school
though for Motorsports

955
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,080
engineering.
But but again, 20 years ago they

956
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,720
didn't or 30 years ago they
didn't, There was no such

957
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:02,520
school.
You know, it was just a bunch of

958
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,080
Yahoo guys who just learned a
lot about how to make cars go

959
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,280
fast and and therefore got
hired.

960
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,480
So you know you you founded this
touring career workshop.

961
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,560
Myself and a guy named Eric
Parker, who a friend of mine,

962
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,360
actually, I taught at Belmont as
an adjunct for 10 years and he

963
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,800
was one of my students who.
Got interesting.

964
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,440
And he's still, he's got a great
career in the industry.

965
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,640
And but he and I formed this in
2011.

966
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,760
Yeah.
And we, it was really formed out

967
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,000
of seeing this need within our
industry of, of having some kind

968
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,800
of collective human resource
information.

969
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,920
I had a point in my career where
I was getting a lot of

970
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:45,280
questions, Hey, who do you use
for accounting?

971
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,200
And hey, what, how do you do
your quarterly taxes and what

972
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,640
are you doing for your health
insurance?

973
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,160
That we kind of brainstormed,
had this idea of putting

974
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,400
together this workshop in which
we did the first one in November

975
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,040
of 2011.
And the idea was simple is that

976
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,560
we were going to have these
these guest speakers come up and

977
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,320
talk about all these different
topics from, you know, again,

978
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,800
health insurance, tax planning,
retirement planning, all the way

979
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,560
down to how do you stay fit on
the road?

980
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,000
How do you make your marriage or
relationship work on the road?

981
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,960
All these different topics.
And that first workshop again in

982
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:22,680
2011, we had 50 attendees that
went very well to the point that

983
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,960
between 2011, 2012, we went
ahead and became an official

984
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:32,280
5O1C3 and moved it over to the
sound check Complex in 2012.

985
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:36,800
And it's just grown since then.
We, we still do the big fall

986
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,760
workshop every year.
We have a great board of

987
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:45,240
directors now with a lot of
industry pros, TMSPMSA, lot of

988
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:50,280
vendor employed persons, just a
very good diverse board.

989
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,400
But what I'm most excited about
what we've done is our our

990
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:54,960
ventures into the mental health
field.

991
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:56,720
Yeah.
You know it.

992
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,120
Very necessary.
Yeah, if you're cool with me

993
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,120
talking about it, I'd love to
share a little about that.

994
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,040
No, no, I want to talk about it
because that's, I've actually

995
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,640
had podcasts just to talk to
people about that.

996
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,640
Because, you know, one of the
things I did during COVID, I

997
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,800
started this weekly Zoom thing.
And a lot of that had to do with

998
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,000
mental health because I had
people reaching out to me,

999
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,800
friends or friends of friends
who were like, I don't know what

1000
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,080
to do.
I'm useless.

1001
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,760
I can't take care of my family.
I can't do this.

1002
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,080
I probably would be better off
if I weren't here.

1003
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,640
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa.

1004
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,400
Hang on a SEC.
Where are you?

1005
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,800
I'm gonna come see you with a
mask on, but I'm gonna come see

1006
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,680
you.
You know, there were people that

1007
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,560
just didn't know how to cope
with this stuff.

1008
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,840
And there were also people who
didn't know, like the other

1009
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:46,000
stuff you talked about.
Like I coached so many people

1010
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,600
and I can't.
Looking back, it's hard to

1011
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:53,240
believe, but in the beginning of
2020, not a lot of people knew

1012
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:57,120
how to use Zoom.
And I spoke to so many business

1013
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,920
owners who didn't know how to
move their files into the cloud

1014
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,760
because they were using these on
Prem servers and they had no

1015
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:11,720
idea how to use like Google
Drive or, or Dropbox or any of

1016
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:14,720
those things.
And so I was actually coaching

1017
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:17,400
people for free as a just a
friend.

1018
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,160
I was showing people how to how
to set up on Zoom, how to set

1019
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:25,040
their company up with, you know,
a Google Drive set up and, and

1020
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,880
move all of your files on there
so that you could work from home

1021
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,920
without having to drive, drag a
server home or VPN into the

1022
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,640
office or whatever It was,
right?

1023
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,280
There was so much need out
there.

1024
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,520
And then I started doing these
weekly Zooms and, you know, it

1025
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,960
was just really about
camaraderie, helping each other,

1026
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,040
sharing ideas.
You know, we talked a lot about

1027
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,360
probably some of the stuff you
were much more officially

1028
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:50,920
talking about.
And I wish we would have gotten

1029
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:55,120
together on some of this stuff.
But I'm a 1099.

1030
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:59,680
How do I get taken care of?
You know, I'm, I, I have an LLC,

1031
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,880
but it's only got 1 employee.
How do I get taken care of?

1032
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,960
Can I get any of that PPE money
or whatever?

1033
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,840
And so we were bringing in
experts to talk about that.

1034
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,920
We were sharing information on
that.

1035
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:16,920
Certainly, you know, bringing
Strickland in every couple of

1036
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,880
weeks on to our our discussions
was helpful because he had the

1037
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,120
handle on what was going on
congressionally or within the

1038
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:28,840
government, sort of, I mean, you
know, it, it was pretty hard to

1039
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,800
have a real idea of what was
going on there because they they

1040
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,240
shared with you what they
wanted.

1041
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,360
But yeah, I mean, sorry to go on
and on and on, but I think this

1042
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,160
is such an important topic.
And the the mental health thing

1043
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,520
just kind of rose above
everything because even, and I

1044
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:49,880
won't mention any names but
seasoned like lighting designers

1045
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,080
or sound engineers or production
managers who've been doing this

1046
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,080
for 40 years after the Zoom call
were calling me up and going.

1047
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,080
Marcel, I'm really struggling.
Like, either I'm struggling

1048
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,800
super financially or my wife and
I are about to get divorced

1049
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,560
because she can't stand that I'm
in the house for six months in a

1050
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:13,840
row or, you know, like I've
become a drug addict because I'm

1051
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,880
at home and I don't know what to
do with my time.

1052
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,440
Yeah, I've heard so many of
those stories.

1053
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,240
And it was just so sad that I
had nowhere to send anyone.

1054
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,800
So I was reaching out to like,
you know, Lori Rubenstein and

1055
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,280
and different people like that
and just saying, can you help

1056
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,200
these people?
You know, like, is there

1057
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,240
anything you can do to help
these people?

1058
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,080
Because I feel like we're going
to lose some of these people

1059
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,720
either, you know, through
overdose or through eating

1060
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,480
themselves to death or through
suicide.

1061
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:43,640
Yeah.
So.

1062
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:48,240
Yeah, no, it's, you know, it was
definitely, I think that that's

1063
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,640
another pandemic thing was a
really big wake up call and

1064
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,480
directed toward making mental
health an important factor in

1065
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,560
all and, you know, addressing
mental health in our lives.

1066
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,280
And I think it's I love where
the conversations at now.

1067
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:01,960
I love that it's an honest
conversation.

1068
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,880
I think that's great.
We so in 2014 we started what we

1069
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,120
call our standard All Access
program.

1070
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,920
That program is pretty
straightforward.

1071
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,520
Basically through that program,
we have several counselors

1072
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,600
throughout the country that we
have agreed upon set rates with

1073
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,080
you go to our website, you make
an appointment with the

1074
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,320
counselor.
We will pay for up to four

1075
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,840
sessions of per year of
counseling, no questions asked.

1076
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,040
It's super simple, like
literally find the counselor,

1077
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,160
make the appointment, they send
us a bill, we pay it.

1078
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,000
How?
How are you doing that?

1079
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,040
Is that through sponsorship or?
Through, through our, you know,

1080
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,440
because we are 5O1C3, we, we do
have sponsors, we have donors,

1081
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,320
yeah.
It's part of what what that

1082
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:44,800
funding goes.
Wow, that's incredible.

1083
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,560
Actually, a huge part of what
that funding goes to.

1084
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,720
That's really, really great.
That's.

1085
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,640
Amazing.
To date, we've paid for almost

1086
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,440
500 sessions of counseling.
That's amazing.

1087
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,640
Yeah.
And and you know what if if

1088
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:00,160
those 500 sessions of counseling
saved one person, Well worth it.

1089
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:02,800
Oh.
Well worth it and.

1090
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,280
Honestly, last year after
something happened here in town,

1091
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,400
I ended up opening it up to, I
say we ended up opening it up to

1092
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,760
spouses and partners as well.
So not just if you are working

1093
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,920
in the live entertainment
industry full time, but your

1094
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,040
spouse or your partner as well
as welcome to those four

1095
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,480
sessions per year.
And after those four sessions,

1096
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,800
we don't just turn you loose.
We've got other resources we can

1097
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,040
point you to.
Or worst case, we'll keep paying

1098
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,880
for them.
Like if it's at that point you

1099
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,160
can't afford it, we'll keep
paying.

1100
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,800
But that's, that's been such an
awesome thing to watch that come

1101
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,520
to life.
Well, the, the next phase of

1102
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,480
that, one of our board members,
Brandon Sausman is he's the

1103
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,680
director of production for C3
Presents.

1104
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,240
You know, C3 obviously a major,
the biggest festival producer in

1105
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,240
the entire country.
He's on our board.

1106
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:54,280
He at a board meeting last last
spring, he goes, what about

1107
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,600
taking counsellors and bringing
them on site to some of our

1108
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,160
festivals.
And the next thing I know at

1109
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,720
Bonnaroo last year, 23, we had,
we brought in counsellors, we

1110
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,600
set up back by Artist Village.
We had a trailer and we ended

1111
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,200
up.
Bringing in counselors that was

1112
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,120
on show days from, you know,
nine to five or whatever the

1113
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,040
hours were.
But we ended up giving doing 22

1114
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,400
sessions of counseling at
Bonnaroo last year.

1115
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,400
And we were like, man, this is
on some, we call that program

1116
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,160
All Access on site.
And it's, it's blown up to the

1117
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,880
point that this year I think
we're at 9 or 10 different

1118
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,320
festivals.
We've hired a program

1119
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,640
coordinator that just focuses on
growing and building that

1120
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,640
program, implementing, you know,
on site, being there on site,

1121
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,080
running it, finding our
therapists that are on site.

1122
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,120
And man, it's been beautiful to
watch that thing take off like

1123
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,680
we've been.
Just so I understand, so that's

1124
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,720
that's for crew specifically and
and it's free.

1125
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,320
Oh, 100% free.
And it's for anybody who makes

1126
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,040
we, I like to it's somewhat very
broad stripes, anybody that

1127
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,960
makes their living working in
live entertainment.

1128
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,920
So artist, band, crew, side OPS
people, if you make your living

1129
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,240
working around entertainment,
you're welcome to, you know, and

1130
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:09,920
we've got QR codes with these
festivals.

1131
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,160
We're going and putting QR codes
in every dressing room.

1132
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,480
They're in catering, they're in
every office.

1133
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,440
So that man, if you're having a
rough day, you know some shit,

1134
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,840
maybe going down at home and
scan the QR code, make your

1135
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,840
appointment.
And we typically even have, you

1136
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,920
know, two therapists on at any
given time.

1137
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,040
We've been, we can, we've been
had a quite a bit of walk UPS,

1138
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,840
like literally people walk up
and go, man, I really could go,

1139
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,920
I could talk to someone.
And right in the trailer.

1140
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:37,840
And without getting into detail,
some of the feedback we've got

1141
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,960
has been to your point a while
ago about if it saved one

1142
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,840
person's life.
I can undoubtedly say that this

1143
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,360
program has definitely saved at
least one person's life.

1144
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,640
That is incredible.
Good on you man.

1145
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,720
Congrats.
Like that's, that's so good and

1146
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,480
so important.
You know, again, this is like

1147
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,920
some people might say, come on,
tough it out, you know, come on,

1148
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,560
what are you doing?
Why are you having so much

1149
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:03,720
trouble?
You're in paradise.

1150
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,240
You're out there on Bonnaroo,
you're working on a festival

1151
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:07,880
with a bunch of pop stars and
stuff.

1152
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,600
How rough is your life?
You could be digging ditches,

1153
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,920
you know, but you don't know
what it's like to live with a

1154
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,280
bunch of strangers on a tour bus
or to, you know, I, I mean,

1155
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,680
there are challenges to this
industry that I think are unlike

1156
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:26,200
most others, if not every other.
And look at all the musicians

1157
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:30,680
who are wildly successful and
commit suicide, you know, same

1158
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,160
thing.
Like, it's just, it's a weird

1159
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:34,200
dynamic.
You know?

1160
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:38,800
When, when you get to such a
high during the show, sometimes

1161
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:42,360
you know, in more ways than one
and then boom, you come crashing

1162
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,080
down cuz the night's over and
what do you do now?

1163
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,480
And that's when artists
typically get involved in all of

1164
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,960
the bad things that, you know,
end up killing them a lot of

1165
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,160
times, you know, or at least
turning them into addicts.

1166
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,560
Well.
Improve people too, same thing.

1167
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,520
I mean, look at the hours we
work, the working conditions,

1168
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,280
the healthy lifestyle with lack
of exercise and typically

1169
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,720
overeating or not eating right.
I know not everybody does it.

1170
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:08,920
I'm just, you know, it is a
problem.

1171
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,200
And then you add in being gone
away from your, your partner,

1172
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,800
your spouse, your children, your
whatever's at home.

1173
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,000
You know, you add in all these
factors mixed in some addiction.

1174
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,760
I mean, you've got you got
people with some real problems

1175
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,280
that just gets coming out.
And again, like I said, lack of

1176
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,280
sleep if you're only getting
four or five hours of sleep a

1177
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,840
night.
No good, no balls, no bueno.

1178
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,120
No, it's not good.
No, it's just not a.

1179
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:38,520
It's not a until you find a
healthy routine through all of

1180
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,520
that, it's not a healthy
lifestyle.

1181
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:44,200
It just isn't, you know, and,
and even just the sleep thing,

1182
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,720
like, you know, it took me 50
some odd years to figure out,

1183
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,000
Hey, this sleep thing is kind of
important.

1184
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,200
You know, like I thought you
just slept because you were

1185
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,640
tired.
You didn't sleep to, you know,

1186
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,360
keep yourself alive.
Like it wasn't a huge part of

1187
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:03,720
your health, but it really is.
So the workshop happens, you

1188
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,400
said, every fall?
Every fall, so this year will be

1189
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,560
on Tuesday, November 12th.
We're we're back at the same,

1190
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,960
we're still at sound check annex
once they move to Rock Nashville

1191
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,080
and that's done in a year or
two, we'll move out there.

1192
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,160
But yeah, it's, it's a free
event.

1193
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,880
Basically it's, you know, we
typically do Dorset for events

1194
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,520
starts around 5:00.
It starts out with the general

1195
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,400
session, typically a keynote
speaker.

1196
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,520
And then from there it goes into
three groupings of breakout

1197
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,920
sessions of 45 minutes each
where attendees can pick and

1198
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,960
they can find a track or a
breakout that works for them.

1199
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,400
And then we wrap it up again at
the end of the night with some

1200
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,600
net, what we call networking
time, just because that is

1201
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,200
again, this industry is all
based off relationships.

1202
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:46,480
So we can.
The biggest part of it?

1203
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,480
While we've got people in the
room, they get FaceTime with

1204
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,760
some of the sponsors that are
there and then they get to know

1205
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,520
each other and that all helps
foster that community mentality

1206
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:56,680
that we have.
So what?

1207
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,320
What kinds of workshops or or
like what are they going to

1208
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,640
learn there?
We're still in the planning

1209
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,720
phases for this year.
We have what we call our

1210
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:06,480
standards.
Our standards are all, we always

1211
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,440
have a tax planning, we always
have a retirement planning.

1212
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,120
We always have a health
insurance.

1213
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:12,880
We always have a mental health
component.

1214
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,320
But then we start looking at
other things like how do you,

1215
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:19,840
how do you write your resume or
how how to administer Narcan or

1216
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,360
how to do somebody weight
exercises on the road.

1217
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,840
How do you manage being a parent
while you're on the road,

1218
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,240
getting the most out of your air
miles, buying your first house?

1219
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,400
I mean, literally every year,
other than our standards I

1220
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,720
listed, we try to break it up so
that as people come back every

1221
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,560
year, if they're all good on the
tax planning front, they can go

1222
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,520
learn about something else.
Yeah, that is great.

1223
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,280
So this is really for touring
professionals.

1224
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,080
It's not for new people trying
to get into the touring business

1225
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,800
or anything.
This is for more so for people

1226
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,640
who are in it or even new to it,
but but you're in it and you

1227
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,360
know the troubles, you know the
parts that you're missing.

1228
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,520
You know what you don't know?
Correct.

1229
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,240
And but I was, yeah, we, we, we
want all live event people in

1230
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:05,760
there, whether you're working
festivals or touring.

1231
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,560
But the thing I'll tell you is
we do get a lot of young people.

1232
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,280
We do have a couple of sessions
we'll do that are curated toward

1233
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,640
young people that really just
tease them with some of the

1234
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:17,240
career paths they can take.
But the the goal, one of the big

1235
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:20,200
goals we've always have with
this organization is that I

1236
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,400
would rather get somebody in
there with their 20s to start

1237
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,520
thinking about a retirement plan
than wait until their 50s and

1238
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,080
going, oh shit, you know, what
do I do?

1239
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:29,760
And you and I both know that
happens.

1240
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,720
So, you know, can I go make a 22
year old go get a four O 1K or

1241
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,440
an IRA?
No, but if you can get them

1242
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,040
thinking and get that on their
radar, maybe they will.

1243
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,800
The goal is capturing, capturing
them young enough that they're

1244
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,800
thinking, Oh yeah, I probably
should be thinking, I know

1245
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:49,240
retirement's 45 years away, but
I probably should be thinking

1246
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:53,000
about what that.
Yeah, I mean it's, it's also

1247
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,640
important and and you know, I
mean, most companies in our

1248
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,480
industry don't have that kind of
information available to them.

1249
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,840
So the fact that these, you
know, roadies, like you said,

1250
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:07,120
not always the greatest term,
but the fact that they have

1251
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,920
those types of resources
available to them is, is

1252
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,080
incredible.
And you know, I applaud you for

1253
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,200
putting that together because I
know you're not making money on

1254
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,040
it.
It it is a 5O1C3.

1255
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,320
You're doing it because it's
important and because you love

1256
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:24,480
doing it.
So just a couple of things about

1257
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,560
it.
So you said it's it's run by a

1258
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,440
board?
Yeah, we have a board.

1259
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,880
There's thirteen of us, fourteen
of us on the board.

1260
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:33,560
OK.
So how often does the board get

1261
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,360
together?
Is it like quarterly meetings or

1262
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:36,680
quarterly?
Meetings, yeah.

1263
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,800
In fact, we did our quarter,
quarter three meeting last

1264
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,720
Tuesday in which we talked about
the fall workshop and starting

1265
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,520
to really dive into theme.
We always try to have a theme,

1266
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,360
whatever is relevant to our
industry at the time, but also

1267
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,280
diving into what's going on on
the road, you know, what's the

1268
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,080
hot topics, what do we want to
address.

1269
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,040
And so, yeah, we're diving into
that now.

1270
01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:01,160
Interesting.
And how do people find it?

1271
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,800
We, we do a lot on our socials.
You can find us on Facebook and

1272
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,480
Instagram and then our website
tootouringcareerworkshop.com has

1273
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,880
a lot of good information.
We try to keep, keep people up

1274
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:13,440
to date.
And then we have, you know, an

1275
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,120
e-mail list.
We'll do e-mail blast every now

1276
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,160
and then just to kind of make
people aware of the big events

1277
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,760
that we're doing.
We do, in addition to the fall

1278
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:22,680
workshop, we do some, we do
monthly events.

1279
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,520
We call day Off.
We have one of our board

1280
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,680
members, Sharon Lee, she owns a
High Road Trucking, had this

1281
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,720
idea and her idea was let's give
an opportunity for touring

1282
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,479
people to get together once a
month, but not necessarily in a

1283
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:37,560
bar environment, bar bar
environment.

1284
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,520
Not that that's wrong, we love a
good bar environment.

1285
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,520
But.
You're promoting all this stuff

1286
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,120
you're trying to teach people to
stay away from.

1287
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,040
Yeah, that's the hard part.
Yeah.

1288
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,319
So we've done things like we've
we've done, we went to a

1289
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:54,319
baseball game, we they went
kayaking, we did Top Golf, We've

1290
01:08:54,319 --> 01:08:57,680
done all these other things.
Just giving people the

1291
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,200
opportunity to just get together
and get to know each other and

1292
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,240
we do those every month.
That's cool.

1293
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,760
That's really cool.
It sounds like you're well

1294
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,200
funded.
So is, is that industry funding

1295
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:14,040
or is that more on the sort of
supply side like these, you

1296
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:18,880
know, whether it's it's HR
companies or payroll companies

1297
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,760
or those types of?
I will say, yes, we are well

1298
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:23,960
funded, but we can always use
more.

1299
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,080
So anybody out there listening,
don't forget us, but we're

1300
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,200
actually getting ready to start
our big donation drive here in

1301
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,640
the next couple weeks.
But no, all of our all of our

1302
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,760
donation money comes from
vendors, manufacturers and

1303
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,640
companies associated with live
entertainment.

1304
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,840
Yeah.
You know it pretty much if you,

1305
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,720
if you name it a production
vendor in Nashville, they have

1306
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,160
or do sponsor us.
Now again, manufacturers have

1307
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,160
stepped up.
We've, you know, Robbie and

1308
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:53,920
Elation and Chauvet, they've all
been great sponsors of ours for

1309
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,640
years.
Yeah, that's fantastic.

1310
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,960
Really, really great.
You know, through the podcast,

1311
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,040
we'd love to help however we
can.

1312
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:07,480
So, you know, just reach out to
me, reach out to Sarah and, and

1313
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:10,200
just say, hey, you know, if you
guys could help us promote this

1314
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:13,960
or you, if you could help with
this, You know, the podcast

1315
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,320
itself doesn't make a lot of
money.

1316
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,320
So it's not like we're we're
going to be, you know, throwing

1317
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,520
out sponsorship dollars or
anything, but certainly will

1318
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:25,280
help bring in sponsors similar
to some of the stuff I've done

1319
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:29,200
with with Jim Digby in the USA,
you know, just promoting the USA

1320
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:33,960
and, and talking about it as at
any opportunity, I think.

1321
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,920
Do you involve yourself with
them a little bit as well or?

1322
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:38,920
I love Jim.
I think he's a great man.

1323
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,600
He's actually, he's been a part
of our workshops two or three

1324
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,000
times.
He was actually our keynote

1325
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,960
several years ago.
And I'm a member of the ESA.

1326
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:48,440
I think I love what they do.
I think they're.

1327
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:49,800
Fantastic.
Yeah.

1328
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:54,000
It's an important organization
and it's really a sad but

1329
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:58,160
interesting story on how it kind
of came about or how the need

1330
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:02,800
for it came about with Jim, you
know, when when the the system

1331
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:08,640
went crazy and killed a girl,
you know, it was an incredible

1332
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,400
story.
I was like, oh, my God.

1333
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,960
Like, I didn't know the story
when he told it to me on the

1334
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:13,960
podcast.
But.

1335
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:19,840
And I understand you also get
involved with the Acms and Cmas

1336
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,040
and so you're a bored kind of
guy.

1337
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:22,280
Yeah.
Well.

1338
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,960
Yeah, apparently.
Well, I'm an admitted

1339
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,720
workaholic.
I, I don't have a ton of

1340
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,200
hobbies, so I, I love to work.
I love our industry.

1341
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,640
Yeah, on the board of the Acms
and Cmas, I'm one of the,

1342
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,560
there's only a couple of live
event people on the boards.

1343
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,640
And so I love being a
representative for our industry

1344
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:45,040
on there because both boards
were doing great things with,

1345
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,560
with financial support on, on
both of those boards have

1346
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,920
charitable wings that have done
a lot of great financial support

1347
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,960
for our industry, but also they
both back mental health

1348
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:00,120
initiatives and just general,
you know, seminars and other

1349
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,040
networking things that they do
CMA has hosted the, you know,

1350
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,520
the touring awards.
You know, it's, it's become this

1351
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:11,200
great event here in Nashville
that it's like, it's like a high

1352
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:12,920
school reunion.
It's that one time a year we

1353
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:15,200
know we're all going to be in
the same room and, and get to

1354
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,920
celebrate each other.
And it makes real quick on that

1355
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,160
because I think it's such a
great event That's we do that

1356
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,360
every January.
But the amount of artists that

1357
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,960
show up to support their cruise
is one of the most beautiful

1358
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,120
things I've seen.
Looking though I had, I got on

1359
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,080
stage this year to talk about a
mentorship program we're doing

1360
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:34,480
with the Cmas.
And I look out and there's Laney

1361
01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:38,200
Wilson and Chris Stapleton and
the Old Dominion guys, all

1362
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,120
they're doing nothing but
supporting their crews.

1363
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:42,720
And I just.
That always means that's

1364
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,280
awesome.
Yeah.

1365
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,320
Well, and it, you know, I hate
to suggest that I'm putting down

1366
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,800
any other artists, but country
artists seem to be much more

1367
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,240
into that kind of thing.
You know, like they, our crew is

1368
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,800
our family more so than the pop
stars and, and even some of the

1369
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,920
rock stars and stuff.
Not sure why.

1370
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,560
Like, I don't even know if
that's fully true, but that's

1371
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,040
the impression that I get.
Yeah, yeah.

1372
01:13:08,480 --> 01:13:11,560
No, it's, you know, the
Nashville touring models always

1373
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,640
been one of the beautiful things
I love about this industry.

1374
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:15,320
You know, we call it the weekend
Warrior model.

1375
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,880
Where you you leave out on
Wednesday night, you do shows

1376
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:19,880
Thursday, Friday, Saturday in
your home Sunday.

1377
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,240
So you're getting this beautiful
balance of home life with your

1378
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,640
family and then Rd. life.
And because so many of the

1379
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,120
artists embrace that lifestyle
as well, so many of these

1380
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,800
country artists, they literally
do treat their crews like

1381
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,520
family.
And yeah, the pandemic here in

1382
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,040
town, I can't speak to the rock
world because I don't do a lot

1383
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:39,960
in that world other than
festival stuff.

1384
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,440
But the country industry, most
artists took care of their

1385
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:45,640
people during the pandemic so
well.

1386
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,920
When they had no income, no
shows, they did their best.

1387
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:52,240
Even if they can only pay 25% of
salary or whatever it was, they

1388
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:53,960
did their best to help.
And.

1389
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:56,320
This shows you what country
music artists are like.

1390
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,200
Well, I know a lot of rock bands
that didn't, you know, and, and

1391
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,960
I won't mention specific names,
but you know, there's a

1392
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,680
particular very good friend of
mine who's worked for a band for

1393
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:11,480
a lot of years, a lot of years.
And he was practically

1394
01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:15,240
destitute.
And, you know, the band who had

1395
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,920
loads and loads and loads of
money didn't take care of any of

1396
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,080
their people.
And, you know, it caused him to

1397
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:27,760
to be a little bit, you know,
angry or, or, or sad, you know,

1398
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,760
I don't know.
He was just like, I can't

1399
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:35,120
believe after having served
these people for so long that

1400
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,120
they're just leaving me to rot
And, and everyone else too, not

1401
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,200
just me.
I wasn't prepared for this, but

1402
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:41,760
neither was anybody else around
me.

1403
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:47,720
And so it's nice to hear that so
many artists were not that way.

1404
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,240
Oh, absolutely.
No, it was, it was really.

1405
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:54,520
I love watching who truly care
about their people and and stood

1406
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:55,760
up and did.
It was a beautiful thing to

1407
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:59,120
watch.
Yeah, I mean, so your kids are

1408
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,040
all grown up, right?
So it's not like they're all

1409
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,480
going Daddy, daddy, daddy, let's
go to the park.

1410
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,760
I want to throw the football.
Our youngest is, is getting

1411
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:09,200
ready to enter his senior year
in high school.

1412
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,640
So we're, we're yeah, we're on
the home stretch here.

1413
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,520
Yeah, Yeah.
No, I was just curious because I

1414
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,400
know one of the challenges in
our industry, summers,

1415
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,600
especially when you're big into
festivals like you are, summers

1416
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,200
tend to get eaten up with a lot
of work.

1417
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:30,120
And that means less family time,
less ability to go do things

1418
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,440
with your kids.
And kids I think are pretty

1419
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:36,280
awesome at understanding that
for the most part.

1420
01:15:36,440 --> 01:15:39,160
I think some of them get angry
when they turn into teenagers

1421
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:41,760
and they start thinking their
parents are the devil 'cause

1422
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:45,680
they didn't play baseball with
them every, you know, Saturday

1423
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:52,040
like other dads did or whatever.
But but yeah, I guess Sears are

1424
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:53,600
grown up, so that's not as much
of an issue.

1425
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:54,960
They are.
But look, I'll tell you,

1426
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,160
especially as I look back like,
and we all know this, all of any

1427
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,920
of us that has raised a child
in, in, in this industry know

1428
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:02,640
this.
I mean, you definitely have some

1429
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:05,600
cats in cradle cats in the
cradle moments where you, you

1430
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,760
realize that you missed out on a
lot of stuff.

1431
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:10,440
And, and I hate it.
It'll be one of my life's

1432
01:16:10,440 --> 01:16:13,680
regrets that I missed out.
I missed out on a lot of first

1433
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,440
days of school, but I've tried
to be there for as much as I

1434
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:17,840
could.
And the other thing I've done is

1435
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,160
I try to make what time I do
have count.

1436
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:25,600
Like I when I'm home, like today
and I'm, I'm working, I will try

1437
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:30,680
to shut down at 5:00 and less
urgent, no 5:00 till I go to

1438
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,320
bed, which at age that much
later.

1439
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,440
That's family time.
That's good for you.

1440
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:41,520
And even to your point, looking
at my summer schedule is making

1441
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,440
sure these little three or four
day pockets of time I have

1442
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:47,360
between festivals, then we
booked something we just got

1443
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,800
back yesterday from going to the
Smoky Mountains just because

1444
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,280
that was the four or five days
we could fit it in.

1445
01:16:53,480 --> 01:16:55,000
To go.
Do things as a fancy.

1446
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:58,040
Good for you.
Yeah, that stuff's important,

1447
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,000
man.
Like, I mean, if if you came

1448
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:04,200
back from, you know, a four week
tour or something and went to

1449
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:07,200
play golf with your buddies for
three days, what message is that

1450
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:10,000
sending to your wife or to your
kids or whatever?

1451
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,240
Right.
It's like, hey, you're not very

1452
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,000
important to me.
These, these my buddies playing

1453
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,680
golf, that's more important to
me and not so good.

1454
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:19,840
Probably not the smartest thing
you've done, right.

1455
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:24,920
But but yeah, no, it's great to
hear that you've got that kind

1456
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,400
of balance going on 'cause it is
hard.

1457
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,360
I mean, for me, not so much.
You know, I've always either

1458
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:34,320
been on the vendor side, the,
the manufacturer side, or, you

1459
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:36,640
know, with gear source.
It's, it's a remote company.

1460
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,680
So literally you can be anywhere
in the world and, and run that

1461
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:43,560
company.
And so the bigger problem with

1462
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:47,280
me was my son's racing cuz he,
he was racing two or three

1463
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,880
weekends a month usually.
And that a weekend was usually

1464
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:53,200
leave on Wednesday, come back on
Monday.

1465
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:54,960
So you know, it's pretty much a
week.

1466
01:17:55,400 --> 01:18:00,280
And what ended up happening is,
you know, my ex-wife, myself and

1467
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:04,000
my son, we all celebrated a lot
of birthdays, a lot of wedding

1468
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,360
anniversaries, a lot of
different things at the

1469
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,880
racetrack as opposed to, you
know, at a resort or something,

1470
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:10,520
right?
Sure.

1471
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,560
But, but it is what it is.
So these are the sacrifices,

1472
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:17,520
whether it was for his career or
for my career or whatever,

1473
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:18,840
right?
Do what you got to.

1474
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:25,040
Say yeah, did we miss anything?
I feel like we've missed

1475
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:26,040
something here.
So what?

1476
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,160
What are you doing now?
Like lots and lots of festivals

1477
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:32,000
I guess for the summer.
Yeah, I've got a really, my

1478
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,400
career's a really cool spot.
I still put out two or three

1479
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,320
tours a year because I love tour
design.

1480
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:38,440
It's so fun.
I love putting on that creative

1481
01:18:38,440 --> 01:18:41,280
hat and I still get to put out
two or three tours a year.

1482
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:44,240
But a lot of my work has become
festival work and especially

1483
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,760
network.
What I love about that, two

1484
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,960
things I love is I love looking
at my calendar in January,

1485
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,640
knowing, oh, I've got these 10
things already lined up for the

1486
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,640
remainder of the year.
But I also love the idea of

1487
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,080
staying in a hotel or Airbnb for
a week.

1488
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,760
You know, kind of the other
thing I love about festival work

1489
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,560
is at any given time that we
leave for Lollapalooza this

1490
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:10,320
Sunday, you know, I'm going to
come across 40 LDS while I'm

1491
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:13,040
there.
Just, you know, getting to see

1492
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:16,600
them, see old friends, make some
new friends and, and, you know,

1493
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,520
put on that hat and, and just
interact with them.

1494
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,680
I really enjoy that.
Yeah, you need to try and keep

1495
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,920
up with Cosmo on the selfies
though.

1496
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:30,120
You know, Cosmo is Cosmo is the
selfie king.

1497
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,000
You know, Hey, look who I'm with
now, Look who I'm with now, Look

1498
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,320
who I'm with now.
It's, it's awesome.

1499
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:38,080
I mean, you know, some people,
I, I hear people poking at them,

1500
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:41,240
which I just kind of did.
But I love the pictures 'cause

1501
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:44,880
I'm like, Oh my God, Bob.
I haven't seen Bob in friggin 25

1502
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,040
years or whatever.
Right.

1503
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,160
And, you know, it's certainly
better than the alternative,

1504
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,480
which is Bob's no longer with
us, right.

1505
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,760
So I love those pictures.
And, and I know that that's why

1506
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,480
Cosmo does it too.
You know, nobody, I don't think

1507
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:01,280
on the planet has more friends
than Cosmo does.

1508
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:06,040
It's it's insane.
But, you know, the sad thing is

1509
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:10,160
you don't see anybody posting as
many, like, obituaries as as

1510
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:11,320
Cosmo either.
Yeah.

1511
01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:14,320
So that's the downside of having
lots of friends.

1512
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:16,440
Yeah.
No, that's a good point.

1513
01:20:16,480 --> 01:20:17,040
That is.
Good.

1514
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,440
Yeah, but, well, you know, I
appreciate you taking the time

1515
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:23,640
to do this.
Sorry about the little snafu

1516
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:27,040
with Chrome at the beginning.
No, we made it some Mac.

1517
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:30,640
I'm sure it's a Mac thing.
But nothing like pissing you off

1518
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,000
right before you got to get on
and record a podcast.

1519
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:36,600
No technology pisses me off.
No, I was glad to be here.

1520
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,360
I just.
I get technologically challenged

1521
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:43,320
sometimes, but.
No, we, we got it done and I

1522
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,160
appreciate it.
And for sure reach out to us

1523
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:49,160
about the, the touring career
workshop, if, if there's

1524
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:55,400
anything at all we can do, you
know, promote something, help

1525
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,800
with something, whatever it is
like it's, it's an important

1526
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,160
thing.
And I love what you're doing

1527
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:02,560
there.
Well, I appreciate it.

1528
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:05,200
We appreciate the support we'd
love to have y'all even just

1529
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,000
help spread the word.
Means of time, because like I

1530
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:12,160
said, we do, we are 501 C three.
We do survive off of donations

1531
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,160
and so even just getting the
word out helps on time.

1532
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:18,560
Yeah, yeah.
And so again, for people to find

1533
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:22,480
that it's touring
careerworkshop.com or go to any

1534
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:25,280
of the socials and just search
for touring career workshop.

1535
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:26,640
Yeah.
I think we're at touring

1536
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:30,360
workshop on Instagram and may
even may even be the same thing

1537
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:32,800
on Facebook, but.
Yeah, easy to find.

1538
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:36,520
We do a good job of posting our
event info on there and keeping

1539
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:38,840
our back tool going on.
Very cool.

1540
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:41,160
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much Chris and

1541
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,520
enjoy the rest of your summer.
Yes, Sir, you too.