#254 - Scott De Vos

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Hey there, welcome to Gears of
Gear episode #254 just finished

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recording this with Scott DeVos.
What a great guy, incredible

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stories.
One of the very few people in

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our industry who can say he's
been doing this 52 years.

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He really is one of the Ogs of
the industry and just has some

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great insight, knows so many
people, has been involved in so

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many things.
And we literally could have

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talked for 3 1/2 hours, but I
know you all would have yelled

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at me for doing so, but I
really, really hope you enjoyed

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today's podcast.
Scott DeVos, again, 52 years in

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the industry, almost entirely in
the touring business, knows

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everyone.
We talked about a few of them.

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Again, we could have talked for
three hours.

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We just had to shut it down.
We, it's funny, we ended the

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podcast and then talked for
another 20 minutes after the

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podcast ended.
So please enjoy episode #254 on

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Geysers of gear.
Welcome to episode #254 Today's

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podcast is brought to you by AVL
Media Group, the exclusive US

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distributor for Midas Lab Group
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Orea, I'm back and so guess what
gear is freeing up on the used

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market?
This is a news flash.

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You know, again, I think you
know that I am in the used gear

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business.
I own a company called Gear

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Source.
And we're seeing especially

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starting in September,
everyone's saying, you know,

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September, everything's coming
back, especially Europe where,

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you know, you have the Olympics
starting I guess in a couple of

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weeks in France.
I was actually speaking with one

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of our large French partners
yesterday and they said they're

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pretty much booked on every
piece of equipment that they

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have.
And the other thing is pricing

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has gone up considerably, I
guess over the past couple of

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months as inventory was running
out with all of these companies.

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You know, it's become much more
of a competitive market.

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I'm not competitive.
Actually the opposite of that.

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It's, it's a seller's market
right now because buyers need

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stuff and so or renters, I
should say, need stuff.

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So you know, all of these last
minute things that all of a

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sudden need 500 moving lights or
a line array system or whatever.

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And but you know, when this is
all over and summer festival

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season's over, Europe definitely
slows down.

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They don't have the arena tours
that we have here in the United

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States.
So, you know, we will still be

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busy in the United States, but
even here I'm hearing a lot of

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in North America, a lot of
companies are looking to deplete

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inventory over the fall.
So it's going to be interesting.

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It's going to be an interesting
fall.

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Lots and lots of gear available.
And so I look forward to being

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really busy on the AI front.
So Open AI has a secret new

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update coming that they're
calling Strawberry.

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And so Strawberry is meant to
push AI forward with what

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they're calling human like
reasoning.

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And so meaning that it will plan
and make decisions much more

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like a human.
It will it will use human like

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reasoning in its decision
making, which is going to be

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very interesting.
They're saying that the

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industries that will benefit the
most initially will be

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healthcare, which you know, I've
been saying for a long time,

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there's a lot to gain from AI in
healthcare, especially when it

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comes to research for diseases
that we haven't done very well

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in, in curing with human
researchers or human methods,

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call it.
I think AI will be very, very

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much successful in those areas.
Cancer, Alzheimer's, some of the

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ones that just have stumped the
medical community for so long

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and resulting in many, many
unnecessary deaths.

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So certainly healthcare.
Another one was financial, you

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know, being able to predict
market trends and to better

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share those market trends, again
using human reasoning and

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education legal, you know, which
I've already been using it for

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simple legal agreements, but it
will be able to research on case

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history and case law and things
like that as well.

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Do a lot of stuff that you pay a
lot of lawyers to do that should

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shrink your legal bills.
So you can still use a lawyer,

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but hopefully those lawyers will
be using AI researchers and

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we'll be able to lower your
cost.

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Now, my knowledge of the legal
industry is that they won't.

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So they'll use AI and still
charge you 450 bucks an hour.

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And but we'll see.
I mean, I think that business is

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going to become much more
competitive as well.

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What else in AI?
Oh, this is sort of a downside

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of AI or a negative blemish on
AI.

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The record Plant in LA, which
is, you know, obviously an

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iconic recording studio where
I'm just going to, off the top

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of my head, Eagles, Fleetwood
Mac, Blondie, Springsteen,

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Metallica, so many big, big, big
acts have recorded there for so

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many years.
They're closing and they're

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blaming lower costs of mainly
AI, but also home studios and

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just, you know, the simplicity
of recording on a laptop now

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versus having to go into a, a
major studio.

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But AI music production is, is
the big thing that they're

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blaming on their demise.
So, you know, I'm sure we're

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going to see other businesses
that are failing to compete with

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progress and not just AI, but
other things like, you know,

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certainly when UPS started
delivering goods everyday, you

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had couriers that were going out
of business.

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And most of the Courier
companies are gone now.

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Uber has impacted taxis in a
very negative way.

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Would we want to put Uber back
in the genie bottle?

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I don't think so because, you
know, I think Uber has been a

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really good thing.
That was an industry that needed

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to be disrupted.
And so, you know, there's some

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sad ones and and there are some
that just kind of needed

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disrupting.
And I would say an iconic studio

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like the Record Plant.
That's a bummer.

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But maybe they just didn't
advance their business model

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ahead.
I don't know, I don't know

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enough about it.
I just think it's kind of sad.

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Another thing I read about on
the music kick here or following

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music and I wanted to share my
screen, but using this app, it's

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very difficult to share your
screen, so I'm not going to do

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it.
But you can go in and search for

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this on YouTube.
The artist's name is Arata ARATA

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and I don't know if I'm
pronouncing the 1st or last name

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right, but it's Arata Fukoe
FUKOE.

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And so go search for that music
video, maybe put the AI in there

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as well.
So a Ratafuco AI video and find

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this latest music video by I
assume it's a her because it's a

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her in the video.
There's no real anything or

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anyone.
All of the people, everything

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about this song and this video
is done by AI.

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So they used ChatGPT for the
lyrics.

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They used Suno, which is a music
app I've talked about with you

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before.
They use that for the music to

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to actually write the song, make
the song, compose the song.

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They use Luma for video, which
is a really great AI app for

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video.
Mid Journey, a very common image

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app for AI or using AI, they use
that for all imagery in the

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video.
And so yeah, nothing about it is

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real.
It's all done by AI, which is,

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which is pretty amazing when you
look at it, I think you'll be

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like, whoa, like I don't like
the song necessarily, but it

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sure sounds real to me.
And even some of the people in

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it, like the, the people kind of
look real.

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Like you can certainly tell
they're AI, but you know, you

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got to think about it a little
bit.

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So check that out.
I thought it was pretty cool.

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I'm kind of excited today again,
like I always am.

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I love all of our guests.
And so today we have oh, first,

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before I get to that, I want to
remind you again to like and

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Thank you, I appreciate that.

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And so today's guest is Scott
DeVos, who's been in the

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00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,840
industry over 50 years and was
recommended.

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00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:16,960
I don't know why I didn't think
of it myself because I've known

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00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,160
Scott DeVos for a long time, but
recommended to come on the

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00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,160
podcast by my friend David
Miley.

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And so Scott is the owner of
Deluxe Productions has produced

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numerous events.
Scott worked for a regional

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sound company even before tours
carried their own gear.

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00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,120
He stage managed a showcase
nightclub, worked for major

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00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,720
artists.
Scott worked for Obie's

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Lighting.
I believe that's where I met him

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00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,240
was at Obie's lighting.
Don't even know what year Long

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time ago.
And he toured with Fleetwood

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Mac.
And in his early years he spent

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time as a production manager for
promoter Barry Faye.

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Even before bands had their own
production managers.

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Scott also designed and
installed.

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00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,640
This is a great little piece of
trivia.

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He designed and installed the
first roof on Red Rocks

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Amphitheater.
Go figure.

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I bet you didn't know that.
And so please welcome Scott de

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Vos to the podcast.
Hello, Scott.

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Hey, Marcel.
What's going on?

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Well, beautiful day in the
neighborhood.

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Where are you?
I'm actually in Jamestown, TN,

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we are about an hour from
Interstate 40 or Interstate 75

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in the North East ish corner of
Tennessee.

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We're surrounded by a park, a
National Park, the Big Sky,

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Cork, the river and recreation
area, and it's something like

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150,000 acres or something like
that.

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00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,600
And it connects to several other
parks going north into Kentucky,

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the Boone National Forest and
Sounds.

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00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,160
Beautiful.
And we are adjacent to and

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located right on horse trails
and there's 300 miles of horse

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trails right here.
Sounds so nice.

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It's gorgeous.
I love it.

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Other than the fact that you
probably get flooded like once

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every five years or no?
No, I'm on a hillside.

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00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,000
Oh nice.
My house in Nashville got

228
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,760
flooded, but this one, this one
hasn't doesn't have that

229
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,440
problem.
Wow, so you you moved to

230
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,920
Nashville a long time ago and
just never left, huh?

231
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:45,960
Yes, yeah, interesting.
I was with the OB company

232
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,240
working for Dave Overman and.
I think that's where I met you,

233
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,200
by the way, I think I met you
first when you were working.

234
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,040
Was was Scott Jevons there at
the time you were there?

235
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,120
Yes.
Yeah, I'm sure I met you with

236
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,600
the OB company and I probably
wasn't a significant meeting or

237
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,440
anything because I, I generally
just went in there and, and you

238
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,080
know, got beat up by Scott
Jevons for a little while

239
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,440
because there was problems with
lights or something.

240
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,040
And I said hello to Dave and how
you doing, blah, blah, blah.

241
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,680
And then that was it.
That was my whole visit usually.

242
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,960
That could have been in the
early 90s.

243
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,520
I I rose to the position of the
vice president and general

244
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,680
manager and convinced Dave that
we needed an office in

245
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,400
Nashville.
And, and he, he liked the idea

246
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,760
of a Nashville office, but
couldn't imagine anybody wanting

247
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,240
to move there.
And my family and I were ready

248
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:46,000
for a move.
So in 1990, we came here and

249
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,240
opened up the Obie's office in
Nashville.

250
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:49,760
Wow.
Yeah.

251
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,360
And it's funny you say that now.
Nobody would want to move to

252
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,280
Nashville.
And it's obviously a completely

253
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,240
different place now than it was
in the early 90s.

254
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,240
You know, I and you're wearing a
perfectly appropriate shirt

255
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,000
today, by the way, which I
happen to love the old TLS

256
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,640
shirts.
And you know, it's, it looks

257
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,560
great because it's so loose on
you, which means which means

258
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,880
you're a lot lighter than you
were at one point, which is a

259
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,880
very good thing, you know,
because I know a lot of people

260
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,120
that can't wear the clothes from
before because they're heavier

261
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,440
now than they used to be.
And that's not a good direction

262
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,880
to go as we get older.
But where was I going with this?

263
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,120
Oh, you know, Dave Miley always
tells me these old stories of

264
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,640
Nashville when, you know, a big
show was like 12 in Tela beams

265
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,600
on a country act, right?
And you know, now you see these

266
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,160
country acts touring with like
1000 Moving Lights or whatever.

267
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,120
It's just insane.
It's crazy how big it's gotten.

268
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,440
Well, there's been a huge arc in
our industry.

269
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,400
I mean, I started in 1970.
Wow.

270
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:05,200
You know, literally working in a
in a College in Denver.

271
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,760
As you know, I was one of the
college students that would

272
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:15,359
unload the trucks in exchange
for a T-shirt and a box launch

273
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,119
and and then one of the.
What truck?

274
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,359
Like a lighting truck or.
Well, at that time it was

275
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,119
literally just band gear and a
local sound company and a local

276
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,840
lighting company.
Yeah, I guess there wasn't

277
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,320
really a lighting truck per SE
in 1970.

278
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,680
The first touring, the first
touring artist I saw that came

279
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:43,880
in with actual production was
America and they played our

280
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:51,080
college and this would have been
probably 73 would have been 72

281
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:56,640
anyway, right in there 7172 and
and it was FM productions and

282
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:03,120
they had they had a a truck and
trailer rig that was originally

283
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,920
designed as a mobile post
office.

284
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,040
And the front half of the front,
not even a half front maybe

285
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:17,280
fourth of the semi trailer was
Funks and had a crew and the

286
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:23,080
back portion of the semi was
where they had their sound and

287
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,960
lighting.
Yeah, and I used to travel in

288
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,960
similar school buses, converted
school buses where the front was

289
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,600
like enough seats for the band
and our one crew and and you had

290
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,360
to sleep on top of like speaker
cabinets or something, you know,

291
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,160
in the back of it where the gear
was.

292
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,960
But yeah, that was a terrible
story.

293
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:49,160
Yeah, but the, the, the the
industry was, is really that

294
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,200
young.
I mean, keep in mind when the

295
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,360
when The Beatles toured America,
they used the stadium sound

296
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,240
systems.
So if you heard them in Shea

297
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,920
Stadium, you heard them through
the PA that announced the

298
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,520
baseball game.
So true.

299
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,600
Yeah, so true.
Yeah.

300
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,800
I mean, when when I read some of
those early, early stories of

301
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,840
things like that and I just
read, I forget his name, but the

302
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,280
original Roadie from The
Beatles, just recently his

303
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,240
family put out basically his
memoir, and it's a fantastic

304
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,920
book.
I think it's called My Life with

305
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,360
The Beatles or something like
that, and just an incredible

306
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:34,480
bunch of stories.
But he talked about that and

307
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,840
then over time how they were
able to augment those speakers.

308
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,400
But yeah, you're right.
It it isn't that long ago.

309
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,440
Yeah, I mean, and I was hired
off the college crew to work

310
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,960
with a a local company, local
sound company.

311
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,120
And we would do little regional
tours.

312
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:59,160
We would pick up REO Speedwagon
or Nazareth and we would, we

313
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,000
would be their sound company
starting in like South Dakota,

314
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,800
Wyoming, a couple dates in
Colorado and then we'd hand them

315
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,720
off to like.
Roadrunner audio that would pick

316
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,400
him up in New Mexico and carry
him through Arizona.

317
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,480
Yeah, You know, it's funny, I, I
think there are so few people

318
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,480
call them the young people these
days who, who understand that,

319
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,120
you know, it was regional
touring companies or regional

320
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,400
sound companies, regional
lighting companies.

321
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,960
Back then it wasn't national and
companies.

322
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,760
So, you know, Bob C would start
a tour at in New York or

323
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,840
whatever and take it so far and
then hand it off to somebody

324
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,480
else and they would take it so
far and then hand it off to

325
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,560
somebody else.
When when did that shift?

326
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,720
Like when did we make the change
from regional to to national

327
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,200
that you can?
Recall some somewhere, somewhere

328
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:59,120
national all the way through in
that in that earliest Ivy era.

329
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:06,480
I mean, because like I remember
The Rolling Stones and Chicago

330
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,600
Beach Boys, you know, 2 early
stadium shows that I worked in

331
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:19,160
like 1975 and and they both had
Claire brothers audio and then

332
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,040
they had Claire and they had Tom
Field and associates.

333
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:30,960
They were both TFA Claire, you
know, partnerships and and Shoko

334
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,520
was doing stuff nationwide.
But Shoko would be, you know,

335
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,240
when they would handle
production such that they would

336
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,920
do the production advance.
There weren't even production

337
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,440
managers for some of these
artists.

338
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,840
They would hire Shoko and you
know, the, the, the company

339
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,200
would take care of, you know,
advancing.

340
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,400
The building and put it
together.

341
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,080
Interesting.
So like you started you're,

342
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,400
you're talking about 1970.
So and was was your you were

343
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,400
production, you were full
production basically.

344
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,640
So you weren't just focused on
lighting you didn't have or you

345
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,560
weren't just focused on audio or
were you?

346
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,160
Did you have a specific?
Discipline.

347
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:23,400
The the actual start for me was
probably lighting and, and I was

348
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:31,920
in Denver, Co and I would rent,
I worked with a guy named Graham

349
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,680
Lewis and then he kind of got
out of it and left it to me.

350
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,280
And I would rent equipment from
an old college stagehand, a guy

351
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,680
named Tommy Seymour and and
Tommy had actually been the

352
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:52,320
lighting electrician guy for
Sonya Henny, the great Sonya

353
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,760
Henny ice skating marvel and and
star of of the 30s.

354
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,440
And she had toured with lighting
as kind of like an ice Capade

355
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:03,840
kind of a show.
Interesting.

356
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,320
Anyway, so I would rent these
old lux troll dimmers and some

357
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:15,240
steel par cans and Lycos and
boom bases and sidearms.

358
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,200
And I would do lights for
concerts that came through town

359
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,280
again, whether it was Mario or
Nazareth or Steve Miller Band

360
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,120
and do that.
And then I, like I said, hooked

361
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:31,520
up with a sound company and kind
of offered them some lighting

362
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,320
opportunities in addition to
sound.

363
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,440
But I also did front of house
mixing for this local sound

364
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,560
company.
So I've done at different points

365
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:46,240
of my life sound and lights.
And then we went and we did an

366
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,840
install in a nightclub and I
became the stage manager for the

367
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:57,280
nightclub.
And this is 74 ish 73 somewhere

368
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,400
in there.
And the nightclub business right

369
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,360
then was fantastic because there
were so many artists that were

370
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:10,160
at, at a dinner show kind of a
club.

371
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,440
So, so we had, we would book a
week at a time.

372
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,640
We'd have Ramsey Lewis one week
or Willie Nelson one week.

373
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,960
We'd have Earl Garner or Jerry
Lewis.

374
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:31,880
We'd have Jerry Lee Lewis.
We'd have Della Reese, Leslie

375
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,080
Uggams, Bobby Goldsboro, Glenn
Yarrborough, anybody.

376
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,160
So each week would be somebody
different.

377
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,880
And so I had a chance to work
with a number of different

378
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,120
artists, and one of those jazz
artists took me on the road.

379
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,320
Oh.
Interesting.

380
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,600
So I was on the road in the
early 70s with a guy named

381
00:24:53,600 --> 00:25:00,200
George Sherry, jazz pianist, but
he played literally every every

382
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,840
state in the union while I
worked with him.

383
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,240
And and then I came back and
hooked up with the outdoor

384
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,160
concerts doing working for local
promoters again.

385
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:17,880
They were local promoters, were
the next Segway into production

386
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,560
because they were hiring the
sound and lights.

387
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,680
They would hire a band and then
the band would require them to

388
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,520
provide the sound and lights.
I see a bit different than now.

389
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:34,320
And so the early promoters
production had production

390
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,920
managers that really I think
kind of started our industry.

391
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,240
I mean, you've probably heard of
Patrick Stansfield of.

392
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,480
Course.
You know, he was working with

393
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,720
Bill Graham and can't remember
his first name.

394
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,160
We always called him Killer
Khan.

395
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,480
He was with Bill Graham.
In fact, he was actually Bill's

396
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,200
pilot when he died at the Stevie
Ray Vaughan in the helicopter

397
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,560
and Michael Ahern.
Yeah.

398
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,240
Michael Heard started with Bill
Graham again in the New York

399
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,440
area.
So the idea was like there was

400
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,560
no, it wasn't like today where
you have a full design team,

401
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,160
lighting design and and audio
engineers and all of those

402
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,000
people who are specifying
product like it was this is what

403
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,160
you're going to use get on
stage, right?

404
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,440
Like the band band didn't have
their own design team or

405
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,280
whatever because it wasn't.
And so, and so to a certain

406
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,920
extent, the, the local promoters
were impresarios and they were

407
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,880
putting on a show.
So, so in those early days when

408
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,480
you had a, a, you know, a Bill
Graham, or in my case, Barry

409
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:53,000
Faye in Denver, you know, Arnie
Granite and Jam in Chicago or

410
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,960
the Belkin Brothers in, in
Cleveland and Ohio, they would,

411
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,040
they would put together a
production.

412
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:03,720
In fact, the earliest portions
of stadium shows they were the

413
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,920
ones hiring the stage and and
roof companies.

414
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,400
Interesting.
So I didn't know that.

415
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:16,080
So the artist did not
necessarily spec who was going

416
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,040
to supply their stage and roof.
The promoter supplied it and

417
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,880
they came and stood on the
stage.

418
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,240
So was there any, was there any
communication with the band as

419
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,120
far as their needs like, you
know, for lighting or for audio

420
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,560
or for staging or whatever,
like, or was it just, you're

421
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,760
going to get up and play, this
is what you're going to stand

422
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,600
under?
I think it probably varied by

423
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,960
artist, you know, some got more
involved than others.

424
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,400
It was, it was a bit rudimentary
at the time, Yeah.

425
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,480
I mean in the early.
Speaking of rudimentary Scott,

426
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,840
so like from what I understand
and I wasn't in the business yet

427
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:04,120
in the 70s, but from what I
understand basically sound

428
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:08,680
companies didn't go out and buy
a JBL sound system or a Meyer

429
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,240
sound system or L acoustic or
whatever.

430
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,560
They just went into their shop
and created some boxes that

431
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,800
sounded half decent, built
enough of them when they needed

432
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,040
to do a bigger venue, they built
more of them.

433
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,600
And you know, same with
lighting.

434
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,080
Like I've spoken to people in
our industry, same thing where

435
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,160
they created their own lighting
packages.

436
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,720
Like Paul Dexter, I remember
telling me about building his

437
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,800
first lighting rig out of
pineapple cans where he created

438
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,680
par cans from pineapple cans.
And so is that like your memory

439
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,760
of it as well?
Like everything was pretty much

440
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,600
homemade.
Well, I saw that, but I did

441
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,680
never actually have any homemade
equipment of my own.

442
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,240
I tended to work with companies
and have never really owned

443
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:05,440
equipment, but I did see it.
So in 76, I started with Tom

444
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Field and Associates and TFA had
a couple of very brilliant

445
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,760
design engineers, McGraw and
Miles, John McGraw and John

446
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:25,480
Miles and just brilliant.
I mean, you know, they invented

447
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,960
the, the what's called the
Phoenix roof, which was a, a

448
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,680
roof structure that kind of
became the standard and the only

449
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,760
thing that was used for those
first early years of outdoor

450
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,440
stadium shows.
And.

451
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,240
They also invented things like
the loony ladder and and a

452
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,080
curved arch Truss that was real
popular with Neil Diamond and

453
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,120
others.
This.

454
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,160
Is the this is the same John
McGraw from Production Arts?

455
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,640
John McGraw.
Quite possibly I've lost

456
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,320
complete track of him, but.
Yeah.

457
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,720
Well, I mean, Production arts
would have started, I believe,

458
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:03,160
in the late 80s, maybe early
90s, and it was John McGraw and

459
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,640
Steve Terry.
And then they sold the company

460
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,400
to PRG, late 90s probably.
Quite possibly.

461
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,200
I know he did the early
Madonna's.

462
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,280
Early Madonna tours.
Yeah, the one where the big

463
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,320
columns did stood up, right?
Yeah, that was McGraw.

464
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,520
Interesting.
Yeah, I, I'm just curious.

465
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,440
I, I don't know if that's the
case or not, but it sure seems

466
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,720
strange that we'd have two big
guys in our lighting business

467
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,600
called John McGraw.
Yeah, so.

468
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,680
And and and Tom Field and
associates kind of dissolved,

469
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:44,080
disappeared in 78 I guess with
when they merged with with

470
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,720
Electrotech.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

471
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,720
It's amazing because they were
such a big name in the early

472
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,520
days because anytime somebody
comes on who's call it, you

473
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,360
know, over a certain age, like
over your mid 60s or whatever,

474
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:06,040
so many people will come on and
talk about Tom Felt or Tom Field

475
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,240
and Associates, sorry and and,
you know, touring with them or

476
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,680
doing shows with them or
whatever.

477
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,600
I've had so many of these
conversations, but again, it was

478
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,880
before my time so.
Well, I I remember hearing a

479
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,480
story from Lenore Gessner, who
later became Lenore Travis,

480
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,440
George Travis's wife, rest her
soul.

481
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,760
But she she told a story of
being getting a last minute

482
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,040
phone call from the first
Woodstock and that she and Tom

483
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,880
loaded spotlights into a truck
and took them out to Woodstock

484
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,920
and delivered spotlights.
Probably never saw him again

485
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,320
either.
Yeah.

486
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,640
And that's true that that
probably was the beginning of

487
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,040
the long term relationship with
Chipmunk, who also did a lot of

488
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,040
work with TFA in those days.
Oh wow, yeah.

489
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,360
As employees, we used to joke
that Tom had a had a philosophy

490
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:10,640
that if he could, if he could
get every tour, if he would.

491
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,720
His goal was to get every tour
out there, and he felt that if

492
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,280
he could lose just a little on
each one, he could make up for

493
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,400
it in volume.
That's incredible.

494
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,880
You know, Scott, I'm not trying
to age you or anything, but

495
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,840
you've got to be one of the Ogs
of our industry.

496
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,400
I I don't think I'm one of the
original guys, but I was in the

497
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,800
room with them.
Yeah, yeah.

498
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,360
I mean, there's not very many
people.

499
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,880
I get a lot of people who come
on and say, yeah, I've been in

500
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,520
the business for 45 years now or
whatever.

501
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,160
Not too many people who say over
50 / 50 years in the industry.

502
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,560
There's a few I, I think I've
been making a living in this

503
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,000
industry for 52 years and I and
I might be one of the, I might

504
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:59,000
be, I'm, I'm of that generation.
That is probably the first ones

505
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,880
to do it exclusively because
like I said, there, there wasn't

506
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,960
an industry per Southeast before
the 70s.

507
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,320
I mean, Stan Miller, Stan Miller
would be older than me.

508
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,720
Stan, Stan L sound and, and you
were talking about sound

509
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,800
companies.
You didn't go out and buy a

510
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,880
Meyer system, but there was an
outfit in either Saint Louis or

511
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,480
Kansas City, I think Saint Louis
I think called Hyle.

512
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,720
And we bought a lot of
components from HYLE and we

513
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,880
would then put together those
components and build our own

514
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,520
subcases or big, you know, W
bins, Perkins bins and only

515
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,520
audio guys would even know what
those are anymore big sub boxes.

516
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,000
I know W bins really well 'cause
I slept on so many of them in

517
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,160
the school buses, you know, So
before the Martin, the phase

518
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,000
plug Martin stuff came out, the
fiberglass Martin or whatever

519
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,320
they were, and they were so much
smaller and less comfortable to

520
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,240
sleep on.
I didn't like those, you know,

521
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,480
they so supposedly they sounded
a lot better, but they weren't

522
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,800
comfortable to sleep on so.
I didn't like them.

523
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,200
Well, that's almost the size of
a full bunk.

524
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,639
I mean they were made out of a
sheet of four by 8 plywood.

525
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,360
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,920
I've played through lots and
lots of West bins in my time.

527
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,320
Yeah, so that was, you know,
that's where people were making

528
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,520
their own speakers and, and
building them with components.

529
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,120
They weren't actually, you know,
making their own drivers, but

530
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:31,800
they'd buy a driver from, from
Heil ETILI think it was and, or,

531
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,400
and then they'd put a or they'd
buy a really long fiberglass

532
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,880
horn, which was Stanhill's kind
of a trademark.

533
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,560
We used to call them Stanley
screamers.

534
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,920
The the big really long throw
horns that were always part of

535
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,800
his sound systems.
And he had to be one of the

536
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,280
earliest ones that was on tours
because he hooked up with some

537
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,120
of the artists.
We're going back to the to the

538
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,720
promoter and an artist
combination.

539
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:10,120
Jerry Weintraub was Concerts
West and he was one of the

540
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,520
first, in fact, I think he was
the first to do nationwide

541
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,960
promoting and and I think he'd
maybe even done that with Elvis.

542
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,760
But he also picked up Neil
Diamond and John Denver and he

543
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,280
would put together a production
package which included, you

544
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,280
know, generally TFA for lighting
and in those cases, Stanley

545
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:38,320
Stan, Stan Miller, Stan L sound
for audio and and to to her

546
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,360
forever.
Wow, that's incredible.

547
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:47,080
So, you know, there's so many
steps between there and here.

548
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,200
You know what I mean?
Like from those early days in

549
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,960
the 70s when everybody created
their own sound and lighting

550
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,080
packages or you know, in a
lighting package might be for

551
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,680
follow spots.
I mean, were you even using like

552
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,880
stands?
You weren't using trussing yet

553
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,320
or anything like that in the 70s
now and so the lighting systems

554
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,560
were pretty small.
Like what was a lighting system

555
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,920
for a a touring like for a REO
Speedwagon or whoever?

556
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,080
Again, you know, I wasn't
connected with him for the tour,

557
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,760
but you know, I was limited by
how much gear, you know, my

558
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,440
local stagehanded owned.
And he he literally had it

559
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,520
stored underneath some of the
buildings in Denver.

560
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,480
He used the parking lot of the,
you know, Convention Center as

561
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,200
his warehouse.
And we'd go down there and get

562
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,480
these old wooden boxes and take
the par cans out and some 12-3

563
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,560
cable and lux troll dimmers.
And I would set up next to the

564
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,280
stage because we weren't using
digital cable, we weren't using,

565
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,360
you know, digital boards.
You couldn't get out the front.

566
00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:02,120
The first time I saw that was a
couple of years later when Marty

567
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:08,280
Wolf bought a bought a system to
do The Doobie Brothers.

568
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,080
Marty Wolf was the first guy to
do The Doobie Brothers, I think.

569
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,040
And the first time he used his
brand new lighting system was

570
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:21,240
for Joe Walsh and the Barnstorm.
And it was, it was what?

571
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:26,080
That little plastic console,
Little 2 scene console.

572
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,640
It's all before my time, my
friend.

573
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,280
Man, tiny, tiny little dimmer
package.

574
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,680
But it was, it was the first
one.

575
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,160
You could actually be out in
front and see the stage with

576
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:41,280
this thing, and it was real.
They're really noisy dimmers.

577
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,640
I mean, sound guys hated them.
Yeah, I can't think of them now.

578
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,320
Scrimmer Scrimmer dimmers.
OK, yeah, I remember scrimmers.

579
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,720
Yeah, yeah, that is before my
time.

580
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,160
But I sold a lot of them, you
know, because I, I started Gear

581
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,720
Source 20 years ago and I
remember people bringing

582
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,360
scrimmers to me still, you know,
that they were selling because

583
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,840
at the time there was still a
lot of market for any kind of

584
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,160
dimmers, but not so much
anymore.

585
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,520
It's been a real interesting our
whole industry has had that

586
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:20,160
traditional curve of of early
adapters into maturity and

587
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:26,880
acceptance.
And you know, the the earliest

588
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,600
companies and the ones that's
that it were big were back in

589
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,920
the days when the artist first
got in tune with needing

590
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:43,600
production and then formed a
relationship with the company.

591
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,520
So, so like, like the the most
obvious one is Genesis and very

592
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,040
light.
So, so Genesis was, was married

593
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:57,120
to Shoko and saw the potential
for the very light and invested

594
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:03,840
in it and, and, and created that
product with them with, with

595
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:10,640
Obie's Fleetwood Mac was, was
with, was with Dave Olbermann

596
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,760
early on.
I mean, they were still

597
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,080
literally a bar band, a Blues
bar band before Stevie and

598
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,400
Lindsay joined the group.
And and that relationship was so

599
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:28,800
tight that they stayed with them
and Fleetwood financed the

600
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,960
growth of the OB company.
I did not know that.

601
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,080
That's an interesting story.
I mean, because, well that was,

602
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,680
you know, the artist would would
you know, they were getting

603
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:45,160
these huge tour support packages
from the record label.

604
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,120
They would have hundreds of
thousands of dollars to invest.

605
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,600
They would spend it pre paying
for the production to be built

606
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,040
for them.
Interesting.

607
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,760
So and so companies would go
out, you know, basically

608
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,720
Fleetwood's checkbook and buy
the equipment or, or on the

609
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,440
Fleetwood contract, the bank
would loan the company, but it

610
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,800
was enough so that they were
married together.

611
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:15,320
Yeah, so, you know, I, I had
always heard a similar story

612
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,960
with Pink Floyd as well, right?
Yep.

613
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,440
Yep.
So I'm and I've heard multiple

614
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,600
versions of this story.
So I kind of heard an OB

615
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,160
version, I heard a Keeling
version, and I think I heard a

616
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,520
Mark brick mark Brickman version
as well.

617
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,880
And of course, everyone takes
credit for.

618
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,240
Oh, and then there was somebody
else who was the other person

619
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,160
who told me.
No, it was me who created the

620
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,360
Telescan anyways.
But I'm sure you know the real

621
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,720
story.
Oh, what was his name?

622
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,320
There's a guy who did Zeb
Cochran, Not Cochran.

623
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,560
Zeb Cochran?
Yeah, Zeb Cochran.

624
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,240
Zeb, I believe, and I always
hate when I do this.

625
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:58,840
I'm almost positive Zeb passed
away a few years ago.

626
00:40:58,840 --> 00:40:59,920
He did?
Yeah.

627
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,080
Yeah, God rest his soul.
Zeb was a smart dude.

628
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,200
That guy taught me so much in
the early days.

629
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,640
Oh my goodness, what a smart
guy.

630
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,160
He taught everybody.
He, he was one of those guys.

631
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,480
I think he was, he was.
He was fluent in multiple

632
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,080
digital languages.
Yeah, yeah.

633
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,520
So the probably all stories are
correct, OK, because they were

634
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,280
all present.
The part that they might have

635
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,960
missed was the actual
introduction, and that happens

636
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,960
with.
That's my little contributor, my

637
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,640
little piece.
One second here, Scott, I want

638
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,680
to show you something.
I was able to find that.

639
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,560
I was able to find that picture
you were talking about.

640
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,720
Yeah, you'd asked me a minute
ago if how long Obie's had been

641
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,920
a, you know, called the Obie
Company and.

642
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,880
And there's a classic Stevie
Nicks wearing an Obie's T-shirt.

643
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,360
Well, and she can't be more than
2223 years old in that picture,

644
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:08,240
so that's an old one.
So Obie's, Obie's has been was

645
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,360
always with Fleetwood Mac and
was with Fleetwood Mac before

646
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,840
Stevie was.
So, and I'm sure you've heard

647
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,480
that story that's.
AI haven't.

648
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,640
I haven't.
That's another amazing story.

649
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,960
Jesus.
Oh, the Stevie Lindsay story

650
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:30,560
that it's pretty well known.
I short version, Fleetwood Mac

651
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:36,320
was a Blues band playing local
clubs and small, you know, Mars

652
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,600
and the lead singer at the time
might have been Peter.

653
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,280
Somebody anyway decided to leave
the band.

654
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,040
So they were they were missing a
lead singer.

655
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:53,320
Simultaneous with that, there
was a studio in I think it was

656
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,400
North Hollywood that was trying
to get them to come record there

657
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:03,400
and as a demo to convince them
come use my studio.

658
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,760
He brought a A record that
they'd recorded there, which was

659
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,160
these two kids from Arizona
called Buckingham Knicks.

660
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,640
And it was Stevie and Lindsay as
a duet.

661
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,840
And they were impressed with the
sound and said, yeah, I'm

662
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,960
interested in your studio, but I
really want to meet that guitar

663
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,840
player.
And they met Lindsay, liked him,

664
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,520
wanted to hire him.
And Lindsay said, OK, but you

665
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,160
have to hire my girlfriend as
well.

666
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,320
And so Stevie and Lindsay joined
the band.

667
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,040
Wow, that's.
Incredible.

668
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,480
I didn't know that.
I had no idea that that's how it

669
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,080
started.
That was never a.

670
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,280
Huge fan.
I guess so I didn't.

671
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:52,000
That was like 75 ish and and by
the end of 76 they were playing

672
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,480
stadiums.
Jesus, yeah, that thing took

673
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000
off. 7077, they were playing,
yeah.

674
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,400
You know, it, it's so funny in
in music and history and

675
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,640
everything when you look and
say, well, if that would have

676
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,920
just happened a little bit
different, you know, we might

677
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,040
not have had some of the iconic
music that we have today.

678
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,440
And so if if Lindsay hadn't
insisted that his girlfriend

679
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,720
come along, we'd be missing some
stuff.

680
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,080
Yeah, we would.
Absolutely, Absolutely.

681
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,560
But you were specifically asking
about the Pink Floyd, the

682
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,720
Telescan, I think it was called.
Yeah.

683
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:36,400
And so I was attending a church,
First Baptist of Redondo Beach,

684
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,120
and one of the elders there was
a guy named John Roberts who was

685
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,440
worked for Hughes Aircraft.
And he was interested in

686
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,920
marketing Hughes products, not
only inside the company to other

687
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,760
divisions so that, you know,
aircraft knew what, you know,

688
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,440
satellites were doing and
satellite, Hughes Aircraft, you

689
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,080
know, everybody needed to know
more about it.

690
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,640
They were just that giant of a
company.

691
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:04,680
They had an inside salesman just
to sell to themselves, and so he

692
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,800
was also interested in selling
to something else, and he

693
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,840
thought maybe the entertainment
market would be something that

694
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,080
they could get into.
And so about that time, Mark

695
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,200
Brickman was working closely
with Obie's Lighting and Mike

696
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Keeling was kind of the account
executive at the time.

697
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:26,760
And I hooked them up with John
Roberts and he sent a helicopter

698
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,160
from Hughes down to the Torrance
Airport, picked the two of them

699
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,240
up and gave them the nickel tour
of what Hughes Aircraft was

700
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,960
willing to show the world.
And one of the things that they

701
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,720
fell in love with was a
helicopter Searchlight.

702
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,840
And OB said, great, let's see if
we can't turn that into a

703
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,800
fixture for you.
Because Brickman said that you,

704
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,920
you build it, I'll use it.
And so we we took the the same

705
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:02,560
concept as the Telescan.
The French was it?

706
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,240
What was it called?
The French product called?

707
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,400
Well there was Z scan as well,
but Telescan was the French.

708
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:09,600
One.
So Telescan was the French

709
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,120
product.
Telescan was the French product

710
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,760
made by Chameleon.
Chameleon in France, right?

711
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,200
Yeah.
And the Z scan was the OB knock

712
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,440
off of a Telescan using this
Hughes bulb.

713
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,960
And Zeb Cochran would have been
integral to that because he was

714
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:33,000
working, he was hired on and he
was Mr. DMX at the time and

715
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,400
could could understand all the
programming that went into it

716
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,000
and.
So the Z scan that was on like

717
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,800
Pink Floyd and and Michael
Jackson and like all these huge,

718
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,000
massive, iconic, incredible
shows was a helicopter

719
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,120
Searchlight with a mirror on the
front and and a scroller.

720
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,480
Yep.
Unreal.

721
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,960
Yep, it's amazing.
Yeah, and the and the scroller

722
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,040
was developed in conjunction
with Wybron.

723
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,360
Yeah, yeah, I I remember that.
That's such a cool story.

724
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,360
The beast of a fixture.
Yeah.

725
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,240
So, you know, we jumped ahead a
little bit.

726
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:15,080
So you were in the early 70s,
you were doing some mixed

727
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,720
things.
You got picked up by a jazz

728
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,520
artist somewhere there.
You ended up at Obie.

729
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,640
But am I missing a big step in
between?

730
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:26,760
Well, there was so I left the
jazz artist and I went back and

731
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,080
forth to the nightclub and I did
some, you know, smaller artists.

732
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:38,160
I was on tour with Doug Kershaw,
the the Ragin Cajun and in the

733
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:44,160
70s working I I literally was a
walk on stagehand at a stadium

734
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:50,280
show. 1975, The Beach Boys in
Chicago are playing together and

735
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,520
I heard they were hiring crew.
And so I went up outside the

736
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,400
stadium, slept in my Jeep that
night and walked on the next day

737
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:04,600
and started working.
And by the end of the week, I

738
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,360
was the crew chief.
There'd been a yeah.

739
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,320
It.
Was I ended up being the guy

740
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,200
that that worked well with
others and and had a little bit

741
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,080
bigger picture than most of the
other people.

742
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,480
And so I just.
Got a clue?

743
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,640
Give him the gig.
Yeah, exactly.

744
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,720
And so and so they they just so
the people from Tom Field and

745
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:30,760
associates who were doing the
lighting and Clare Brothers that

746
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,480
was doing the sound just would
come to me and say I need 4 guys

747
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,880
and I would pick four guys and
send them there.

748
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,200
And then they'd come back to me
and say I need two guys over

749
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,880
here.
Like send these guys over there.

750
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:47,880
So I just kind of became the the
crew chief Stewart and the the

751
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:53,600
same stage that we had built for
Chicago Beach Boys stayed in

752
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,040
place.
It was it was built by a company

753
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,960
out of Michigan and the the guy
building it was a guy named

754
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:05,480
Kevin Wall, awesome, amazing
salesman who who has goes goes

755
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,040
on and has another significant
part of my career later.

756
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:13,280
But we built the stage, left it
there and two weeks later The

757
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,880
Rolling Stones played there with
the infamous Mobius roof

758
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,280
supplied by TFA.
And again, I'm the interface

759
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,080
between the two.
So, so for Chicago Beach Boys,

760
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,760
I'm dealing with Jean Claire,
who was the head sound guy for

761
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,080
that crew.
And then the Stones come in two

762
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:38,160
weeks later and it's Roy Claire
and both crews are with with

763
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,560
TFA.
And so multiple people are

764
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,480
taking my phone number and
saying they're going to call me.

765
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,960
And the following year, Tom
Fieldman Associates gives me a

766
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,000
call and they're starting an
outdoor staging division.

767
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:58,040
So in 1976, the first outdoor
staging company division was

768
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,080
started and Kevin Wall was an
incredible salesman and he

769
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:07,080
landed nationwide tours with
Aerosmith and Earth Wind and

770
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,440
Fire and a lot of the other TFA
acts.

771
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,960
Aerosmith was the most
interesting because we had the

772
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,080
outdoor staging contract, but
Bob C had the lighting contract.

773
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,360
And so there was a bit of
animosity between those two

774
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,520
companies at the time.
But were there LDS yet?

775
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,080
Yes, yeah.
In fact, Chicago Beach Boys had

776
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,280
two guys that later went into
television and became quite

777
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:38,240
famous on their own, just
blanket on their names at the

778
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:42,120
moment.
But yeah, there were Chicago.

779
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:49,280
No, it's similar, though.
It'll come to me.

780
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,240
But yeah, there were LDS.
Yeah.

781
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:55,640
And they were, they were, you
know.

782
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,360
Not Jeff Ravitz.
Nope.

783
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,960
Nope.
Oh well, moving on.

784
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,400
Yeah, but by then touring acts
were starting to have their own

785
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:10,720
lighting designers and.
Chip docs and leobotomy.

786
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,720
Oh geez.
Docks and leobotomy.

787
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,320
Yeah, they were the they were
the two LDS for Chicago Beach

788
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,040
Boys.
You have an incredible memory

789
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,840
for names.
You're you're just spitting out

790
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,600
these names of all of these
people from the 70s.

791
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,360
Like, you know, that's wild to
me.

792
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:34,720
But so by then Axe are touring
with with LDS.

793
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:37,040
They're they're specking
lighting packages.

794
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,600
But I mean, again, how much was
there to spec?

795
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,000
You didn't have moving lights
yet.

796
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,800
So it was like, oh.
Park ends for days.

797
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,320
Park.
Hands for days and park hands

798
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,640
for days then.
So I do outdoor staging

799
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:58,800
exclusively for for 1976 with
TFA.

800
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:06,360
And then that winter I was
hoping to be an LD and I got

801
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:12,320
hooked up with Southside Johnny
and the Asbury Jukes and, and

802
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,920
they were managed by Bruce
Springsteen's guitar player

803
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,200
Steve Van Zandt, who best Little
Steven.

804
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:25,200
And so Little Steven manages
Southside and they come out and

805
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:31,480
they see a show and, and they
bring me, we have a week off and

806
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,840
so they bring me out to
Springsteen.

807
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,560
And so I meet Springsteen's LD
and Springsteen's guitar player

808
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,920
and they take me to see my first
ever Springsteen show in, in

809
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:52,520
winter of 76.
And, and I meet this kid who's a

810
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:58,320
year younger than me, some kid
from Philadelphia, I'm some kid

811
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,760
from Denver.
And I see the show that

812
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:10,360
Springsteen puts on And I, I am
so humbled that, and I've, and

813
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,920
I've shared this story with him
and, and, and he knows it.

814
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,160
Mark Brickman ruined my lighting
design career.

815
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,360
That was the end of my lighting
design.

816
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,920
I saw Mark's work and I went, Oh
my goodness, I cannot keep up

817
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,080
with this.
The competition is way stiffer

818
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,480
than I thought it was.
Wow.

819
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,600
And I need to focus on something
else.

820
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:33,040
That's wild.
What?

821
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,080
What was it?
What?

822
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,200
What blew you away?
Brickman's timing really, He he

823
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,440
and Bruce and and rabbits and
rabbits and Bruce is, is

824
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,280
beautiful too.
Yeah, but but in the 70s it was

825
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,400
just, it had not been seen
before.

826
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,400
And TFA built a console that was
specially designed and built for

827
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,640
Brickman and it was the IT was
one of the earliest ever

828
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:06,800
multiple scene consoles and push
buttons and and Mark could nail

829
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,680
the solo.
He had incredible timing,

830
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,800
probably still does, but you
know, I haven't seen his work

831
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:18,640
lately, but just amazing.
And it was it was as if you

832
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:23,800
thought you were really good
basketball player and you and

833
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,520
your high school team had gone
to state and you were hot stuff.

834
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,080
And you go to college and you
think you're going to sign up

835
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:37,680
for the team, and you play some
Sandlot ball and you're wiped

836
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:38,600
away.
And.

837
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,480
And it's not until later that
you discover Michael Jordan was

838
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:43,480
the guy you were playing
against.

839
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:48,200
Oops.
And it just, it was the end of

840
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,440
it.
So I just decided, OK, I love

841
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,800
lighting and I want to be the
best first electrician I can be.

842
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,560
Yeah.
Or or something else, but that's

843
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,120
not it.
I mean, it's, it's an

844
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,760
interesting decision to
basically, you know, it's like I

845
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,880
started as a bass player and,
and being a Canadian bass player

846
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,760
singer, of course Rush was, you
know, yeah, huge to me.

847
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,120
But you know, I grew up
following Getty Lee and

848
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,040
following guys like Jocko
Pistorius and these incredible

849
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,440
bass players.
For whatever reason, it didn't

850
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,920
cause me to quit, you know, and
when I look back, I go, well,

851
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,920
jeez, I should have because I
wasn't anywhere near as good as

852
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,560
those guys.
But but it's an interesting

853
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,800
approach to say if I can't be
the best, I don't want to do it.

854
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,440
Well, I didn't even realize that
I didn't.

855
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,520
It wasn't that conscious.
It was.

856
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,200
It was.
I was.

857
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:42,600
I was.
I'm just not good enough.

858
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:48,280
Well, no, it was the first time
that I had left.

859
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,400
I, I was, I was a big fish in a
very small pond.

860
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,080
There wasn't a, there wasn't a
music scene in Denver at the

861
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:56,760
time.
There wasn't another lighting

862
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,560
guy to compete against.
And, and so when I got into the,

863
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,640
into the, into the ocean, the
first thing I met was a giant

864
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,440
shark.
And I was like, I'm going to

865
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,200
find a different bond.
I got to go.

866
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,480
I got to, you know, it was just
his awesomeness was

867
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:14,760
intimidating.
Yeah.

868
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:15,320
And.
And.

869
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,280
But it's so incredible that then
you got to work with him in, in,

870
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:21,800
you know, different scenarios.
Or whatever, but I wasn't going

871
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,960
to get out of the business.
So I just folk.

872
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,800
I continued to do outdoor
staging and actually became a

873
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:29,960
request item.
Some artists would, you know,

874
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,680
Fleetwood Mac was going to do a
Australian tour and they said,

875
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,120
yeah, they'd take the roof, but
only if I came with it.

876
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:45,080
And so that was a real plus.
I worked with Patrick Stansfield

877
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,360
and did a bunch of work with him
and, and you know, there were,

878
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:55,040
there were other people that
just continued to inspire me and

879
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:01,000
I just kept kind of honing my
skill.

880
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,160
And it was actually after
outdoor staging and my

881
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:08,680
association with Fleetwood Mac
that I got associated with Obies

882
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,360
because again of Fleetwood Mac
and went out and crewed with

883
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:19,440
them and worked with Obies in
the in the 80s or seven late 70s

884
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,360
doing tours for Obie.
Yeah, I mean, it's funny though,

885
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,080
because when you go back into
the 70s and and even early 80s,

886
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,560
people were basically production
people like it.

887
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,360
You weren't extremely like right
now it's so narrow.

888
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,760
You know, it's like I'm a this
or I'm at this.

889
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,600
Like even on a lighting crew,
there could be 10 different

890
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:44,120
positions and the guy in
position 9 doesn't take the job

891
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,600
from the guy in position 2
because they're very

892
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,800
specialized.
Each of those jobs is very

893
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,280
specialized.
But back then it was just like,

894
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,480
you're a warm body here do this.
You know, you're the sound guy

895
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,360
today.
Today you're the lighting guy,

896
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,160
today you're the, you know, the
stage manager or whatever it is.

897
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,200
Like you just move around those
positions.

898
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:09,720
Yeah, yeah, it was.
And and there was a lot of a lot

899
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,600
of experimentation.
I mean, we were, we were making

900
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,480
up as we went.
Learn as you go, yeah?

901
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,360
I mean, we were making it up.
That's, you know, some of the

902
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,400
earliest shows I did.
You know, we were playing in

903
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,200
buildings that had never had a
concert in them.

904
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,280
Before Jesus.
Yeah.

905
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:32,080
I mean there's a the the
industry we started to talk

906
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,000
briefly earlier, it has that
that curve to it.

907
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,120
You know, there's the early
adapters and the artists that

908
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:44,000
that got a hold of it and the IT
has matured to the point now

909
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,720
where we're almost a commodity.
OK.

910
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,640
And it's like the other analogy
to help you understand would be

911
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,920
the early days of flying.
So when you had Pan Am and the

912
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:03,640
Pan Am Clipper ships, I mean, it
was a big deal to go.

913
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,920
And even when I was a kid, it
was a dress up affair on the one

914
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,760
or two occasions I had as a kid
to go on a plane and it was a

915
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,360
big deal.
And you had, you know, you had

916
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,240
silverware and you had plated
meals and it was an experience.

917
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,000
Oh geez, and what a change.
Exactly.

918
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,960
And, and now you know, I, I
mean, now you have spirit.

919
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,080
Airlines.
I fully expect to be on Spirit

920
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,960
or Southwest or one of those
company and and see somebody

921
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:28,800
bringing a chicken, chicken on
the plane and sticking it in the

922
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,960
overhead bin.
I mean, we're just about where

923
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,360
the Mexican buses are.
Oh my God, that's so right.

924
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:39,920
I mean, I've, I drew a line in
the sand right above Spirit, you

925
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,840
know, so I'll do SW, I'll do
JetBlue, I'll do all of those,

926
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,560
but I ain't doing Spirit.
I just won't fly Spirit.

927
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:51,040
You know, it's like, and I tried
explaining this to my son, my

928
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,600
sons, 20, and he's a race car
driver and he does a lot of

929
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,400
coaching now.
And so people will buy him a

930
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:58,960
plane ticket and send him
somewhere.

931
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,560
And he's like, yeah, I'm on
Spirit.

932
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,160
And I'm like, boy.
And he goes, what, what, what?

933
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,680
And I said, just get there a
little early.

934
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,160
Bring some extra cash because
they're going to charge you for

935
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,000
that carry on bag that you've
got.

936
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,720
And he's like, what do you mean
charge me for a carry on?

937
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,720
They can't do that.
That's got to be against the

938
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,400
lot.
I'm like, no, no, son, it's not

939
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:17,720
against the law.
They could charge you for

940
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,920
anything and they will.
And he was like, Dad, it just

941
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:25,320
cost me 80 bucks to get checked
in with Spirit and the flight

942
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,800
was only 47 or something.
And I'm like, yeah, welcome

943
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,920
aboard, son.
OK.

944
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,560
So the commoditization.
Yeah.

945
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:41,120
Of the industry.
So we had the really close

946
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:46,120
relationships with the artist
and, and then, and then he

947
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,320
develops a relationship with his
designers.

948
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:52,960
I mean, you know, and, and they
develop a relationship with the

949
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,760
company and they're committed to
each other and they grow

950
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,160
together and there's such a
close relationship.

951
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,400
And then once we hit a maturity
level, it's a commodity and the

952
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,400
accountants are involved and
now?

953
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,080
There's a lot of layers
involved.

954
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,040
Yeah, it's.
All these different layers and

955
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,320
it's all these different bean
counters and everybody's trying

956
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,240
to nickel and dime.
Lighting designers have managers

957
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:18,320
now you know, you can't even
talk to the lighting designer.

958
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,120
You got to go to his manager.
Right.

959
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,360
Yeah, it's funny.
It's funny.

960
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,000
Thank you, Brokaw.
Yeah, exactly.

961
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,720
He made a nice.
Well, he went through Obi's too,

962
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,400
right?
For a little while.

963
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:32,400
He's been a lot of different
things.

964
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,880
Yeah.
But I mean, he's, I think he's

965
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,360
the original lighting designer
agent.

966
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:39,560
Absolutely.
I think he's the only.

967
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,160
I don't know any other ones.
Yeah, yeah, I don't.

968
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,920
Know I was approached by a
couple designers but never got

969
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,120
into it.
Yeah, yeah.

970
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,560
No, Brokaw's done a really great
job with that and he's a good

971
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,800
guy.
I'm very good friends with

972
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,840
Michael and, and very grateful
for that friendship.

973
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,440
And, and, but he does a really
great job.

974
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,840
And I've actually given him a
couple of clients who, and I

975
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,720
won't mention names, but there's
one in particular who during

976
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,520
COVID was going through a hell
of a time and, and he helped him

977
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,080
get back on his feet.
He got him some new artists.

978
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,840
He got him into some really
great opportunities.

979
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,280
And he increased his money with
artists that he had been working

980
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,200
with for 1520 years.
He's making more money from them

981
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:28,320
now than he was.
So speaks loudly for what a good

982
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,480
manager can do for you.
Absolutely.

983
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,080
There are some bad ones, but you
know, you, you talk about

984
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,200
commoditization.
I had a conversation yesterday

985
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,800
with somebody about LED screens.
You know, it's become such a

986
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,640
huge part of any show or tour or
whatever.

987
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:54,640
And not that long ago, you were
able to rent AA tile that cost

988
01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:00,800
you anywhere from, you know,
1500 to $2500 if you were

989
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:05,480
renting it for 600 bucks.
That same tile today is 50, you

990
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,040
know, and dropping still, you
know.

991
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:10,920
And it's obsolete by the time
you took delivery.

992
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:18,400
Yeah, because it goes from, you
know, 4.9 to 4.5 to 4.2 to 3.9

993
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,240
and you know, while the tour is
happening, it drops from 3.9 to

994
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,080
now everybody wants 2.9 mil and
it's like, Jesus, what's going

995
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:27,920
on here?
I mean, there's obviously a

996
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:32,040
point, you know, where, where
you're not going to go beyond.

997
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,960
And I think it's at 1.9 is
pretty standard right now.

998
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,680
As far as the tightest
resolution, I don't see it

999
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,480
getting much below that because
the LED chips need some room to

1000
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,560
cool as well.
Like you can't just put them all

1001
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,080
touching each other.
You know it's you need some

1002
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,040
space in there, but.
As a as a production manager, I

1003
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,680
always use kind of a a rule of
thumb that whatever the the mill

1004
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,360
is, in order to get resolution,
I turn that into meters.

1005
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,280
So.
That is what it is, yeah.

1006
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,600
If it's 1.9, I figure you know,
you're 2 meters away from it,

1007
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,360
so, so your LED, I mean, there's
no audience member sitting

1008
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,480
closer than six feet to an LED,
I mean.

1009
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,680
That's if you want to watch the
Super Bowl in your house on a 50

1010
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,520
foot screen, you know, OK, put
in a 1.9 mil wall.

1011
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,960
But I mean, you don't need that
in a show, that's for sure.

1012
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,080
Like I think I I think who was I
talking to that said they're out

1013
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:30,640
with this massive screen and
it's 2.9 mil and I'm like, why?

1014
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,560
You know why it's so much more
expensive.

1015
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:38,040
It's more labor intensive and
you know, I heard AI don't know

1016
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,840
if I want to repeat it.
I might get in trouble for

1017
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,320
repeating it.
So I won't repeat it.

1018
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:46,360
But I heard a story about a a
particular artist.

1019
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,520
Was it lunchtime already?
No, I heard about a particular

1020
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:55,920
artist touring with an LED
screen that was basically

1021
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,760
specially designed to put
speakers behind it.

1022
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:04,440
And when they replaced that
vendor who had specially

1023
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,080
designed the screen to have the
speakers behind it, they just

1024
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,840
went and got a a very tight
resolution screen that hadn't

1025
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,880
been specially designed.
And what's happening is they've

1026
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,680
had to turn up the sound more to
get the sound through that

1027
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:19,960
screen right.
And they're blowing the screen

1028
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:21,640
apart.
Yeah, it's not audio.

1029
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,040
It's not audio transparent.
No, it's not audio transparent

1030
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:31,080
and, and, but you know, the more
you commoditize things, the more

1031
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,240
you're going to run into
situations like that.

1032
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,320
You know, there is still space
for specialized product I guess.

1033
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:45,600
I'm really curious to see what
what happens in the, in the

1034
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,120
future of, of, of our business
and, and as companies.

1035
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,680
I mean, I'm sure, you know, as a
business owner, you're familiar

1036
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,040
with the, with the cycle that
happens.

1037
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:59,520
You know, the, the first owner,
the, the guy who, who bootstraps

1038
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:05,880
the company, you know, the Roy
and Jean Claire, you know, they

1039
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:10,240
bootstrap the company and the
next generation, you know, comes

1040
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:14,520
along and they've got sincere
respect and understand what it

1041
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:18,560
took for the parents to bring up
that company.

1042
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:25,160
And, and traditionally speaking,
business advisors will always

1043
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,240
caution you about a family
business when it gets to that

1044
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:36,280
third generation, because now he
can appreciate what grandpa did,

1045
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:41,680
but he saw how much work it was
for dad and are they going to be

1046
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:46,280
able to continue the company?
Yeah, it's, that's an

1047
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,920
interesting topic.
I have AI have a friend who was

1048
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,720
the 4th generation owner of a
particular company.

1049
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:53,840
And I won't tell you who or
anything cuz I don't want to get

1050
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:58,040
anybody in trouble.
But during COVID, he came to me

1051
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,600
and he said, you know, I'm in a
bit of trouble here.

1052
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,080
I need to do some stuff, I need
to make a deal.

1053
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,640
Can you help?
And I got involved a little bit

1054
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,800
and you know, one of the the
themes that he presented to me,

1055
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,280
which I had never thought of
before, but he said the problem

1056
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:16,800
with being a fourth generation
company is you don't want to be

1057
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,640
the one who screwed it up.
Right.

1058
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,040
You know, when you're in a
fourth generation ownership

1059
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,760
position and you're now the CEO
of the family business,

1060
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,600
basically, you don't want to be
the one that's remembered as

1061
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,480
having lost the company or
screwed it up, right?

1062
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,120
And that's a lot of pressure.
But but in our industry, we're

1063
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,680
coming to that point.
We need that third and 4th

1064
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,760
generation, so.
So our foundational companies,

1065
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,800
many of which have already been
absorbed.

1066
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,120
Yeah.
I mean, you know, Claire has

1067
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:49,800
already bought electric, you
know.

1068
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,840
Look at tape.
Just got bought again by Goldman

1069
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:57,320
Sachs.
Just bought tape last week I

1070
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:58,560
think it was announced.
Or two.

1071
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,880
Weeks ago, yeah.
And so that's the other thing

1072
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:06,280
that you see because these
private equity groups are set up

1073
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:11,480
in in sort of stages or sizes.
So you're going to get private

1074
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:16,240
equity company one who's really
good at zero to 100 million in

1075
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,560
in sales and then you've got
private equity too who their

1076
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,279
sweet spot is 100 to 250.
Then you've got 250 to 505

1077
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,560
hundred to a billion, etcetera.
And So what they do is they

1078
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,600
built, they buy it, you know,
they buy a $50 million company,

1079
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,560
they grow it to 120 million and
then they sell it to that

1080
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,960
private equity group that's
really good at taking it from

1081
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,439
100 to 250.
And then they sell it to the

1082
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,560
guys who take it from 2:50 to
500.

1083
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:49,720
And I don't know that those are
good for our industry.

1084
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,160
I don't know that they're good
for the people inside those

1085
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:56,800
companies necessarily.
The, the thing that I saw happen

1086
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:03,600
the first round of those things
was the equity, the, the private

1087
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:08,880
equity companies, the investor
companies saw cash flow and, and

1088
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:15,040
they had no idea how much sweat
equity the owner was putting

1089
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,640
into it because he loved the
business.

1090
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:23,399
And, and loving the business was
what got most of us into this.

1091
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:28,680
And, and, and I, I was amazed.
I mean, it was, it was so much

1092
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,120
fun.
I would have done it for free.

1093
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,120
And I was amazed when somebody
paid me.

1094
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:35,080
That's an interesting concept
because none of us are really

1095
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:37,960
here for the money because we'd
be doing something else if we.

1096
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,160
Were but.
They are here for the.

1097
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:41,080
Money.
They are for the money.

1098
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,920
So and that doesn't make them
bad, by the way, that's what

1099
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:47,680
they do right?
But but it's an interesting

1100
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:49,240
concept I.
Never thought of it that way.

1101
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,359
Generational, you know, of a
corporate identity and a

1102
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:55,000
corporate growth.
And when we hit that maturity

1103
01:09:55,320 --> 01:10:00,360
and, and it's going to be
interesting for me to be healthy

1104
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,680
long enough to watch, you know,
through your podcast and

1105
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:08,360
industry, you know, whatever
insiders I still talk to, to see

1106
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:13,120
where it goes.
Because because it was, it was

1107
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:19,320
built by people that loved it.
Passion, the passion.

1108
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:23,320
And, and, and it's, it's that
same, it's that classic old joke

1109
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:29,360
about the kid who's working,
picking up the elephant slop.

1110
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:33,320
OK, he works for the circus and
he's picking up the, the, the

1111
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:37,960
elephant droppings and it's hot
and it's muggy and these things

1112
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,760
stink.
And he hates his job.

1113
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,880
And his friend comes in and
says, well, why don't you quit?

1114
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,160
And he says, I can't, I can't.
I can't give up showbiz.

1115
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:51,840
That's so funny.
That is so funny.

1116
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:54,240
And and that's where we started.
That's where you started.

1117
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,160
That's where I started.
That's where Gene and Roy

1118
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,320
started.
That's where that's where, you

1119
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,400
know, Obie started, that's
where, you know, Robert Ross

1120
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:02,920
started, that's where, you know,
Rickman started.

1121
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,000
That's where, you know, we just,
we just loved it.

1122
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:06,400
And it was Rock'n'roll and it
was.

1123
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,840
And it was sex and drugs and
Rock'n'roll and the whole

1124
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,240
recruiting poster we felt we
went right in for.

1125
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,760
It, you're right, yeah.
But the whole industry is at a

1126
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,560
weird inflection point right now
because it the, the private

1127
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:23,040
equity is, is problematic in a
sense because it does go against

1128
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:27,840
that whole passion thing.
But it's a necessity because

1129
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,000
these damn shows just keep
getting bigger and bigger and

1130
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,920
more expensive and harder to do
and everything else.

1131
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:39,560
And, and, and I know we're,
we've been on for a while.

1132
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,160
And and there's there's.
We're not in any hurry unless

1133
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:44,440
your lunch is sitting on the
table.

1134
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,760
No, no, but there are there's a
few things I want to make sure

1135
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,240
that that I at least get to say
sure.

1136
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,120
And and by the way, caveat on
everything I have said, because

1137
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,680
it's only my memory.
So it's not fact, it's just my

1138
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:11,440
memory, but the, the passion
that starts an industry can only

1139
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:13,520
go so far.
OK.

1140
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:20,120
And, and those the, the, the
early originators, the you know,

1141
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,920
Huntley, Christie and and you
know.

1142
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:24,360
He's gone.
Pretty far.

1143
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,720
Bob Stern, Bob C, Tom Fields,
you know, Bill McManus, you

1144
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,880
know, Robert Roth, you know,
Dave Chadon, you know all these

1145
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:37,600
guys that were just there.
You know, Stan Miller, as I

1146
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:44,960
mentioned before, you know, has
so much passion, so much desire,

1147
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:54,440
and it suffers in translation.
And so now we've got they, they,

1148
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,840
they aged out, died, sold their
companies, whatever, sent it to

1149
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:03,040
the next generation and, and the
capitals come in and it's

1150
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:04,520
necessary.
And like you said, it's

1151
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,280
necessary for the size of the
artists that are working and the

1152
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:17,520
doors that are expected of them.
And I'm concerned about the next

1153
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:24,400
level of, for lack of a better
term, roadie travelling

1154
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:30,480
technician, because many of them
see this as a job and an

1155
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:34,920
opportunity to make money.
And it is and it's necessary.

1156
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:42,600
But if they don't have that same
passion and commitment to

1157
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:48,240
excellence, will it lead to
complacency?

1158
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:56,200
Will we, will it lead to, to, to
either lack of innovation which

1159
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:03,960
we can deal with, but but will
it lead to accidents because

1160
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:05,280
they didn't have the same
commitment?

1161
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,280
I think both have already
happened.

1162
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,120
You know, I think in a sense
we're already there.

1163
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:11,680
Like those things have already
happened.

1164
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:14,920
Here's here's where I say
there's hope.

1165
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:20,600
It's because I talk to young
people in our industry daily,

1166
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,480
all day.
I've had lots of them on the

1167
01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:27,960
podcast as well.
And there are some extremely

1168
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,960
talented up and coming audio
engineers, lighting designers,

1169
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:38,960
even production managers, you
know, just all jobs in our

1170
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,960
industry.
There are a lot of really smart

1171
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:43,960
and talented young people coming
up.

1172
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,920
My bigger concern is who's
running the companies?

1173
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:51,400
You know, when, when private
equity brings in a CEO to run a

1174
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:55,480
company from outside the
industry, this is where I think

1175
01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:58,400
it really becomes problematic.
And I've talked to some of these

1176
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:02,960
people like I remember I had AI
was brought in as a consultant

1177
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,520
with a private equity and the
CEO that they were bringing into

1178
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,000
a company.
And I sat and talked to them for

1179
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,400
three or four hours and they
were convinced that equipment

1180
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,520
gear in our industry was the
exact same model as the rental

1181
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:20,240
car industry.
So they were going to follow the

1182
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,200
rental car industry.
And I mean the thing about the

1183
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:28,200
rental car industry is Hertz
goes out and buys 1000 cars at a

1184
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,480
discounted price.
So let's say it's a a $50,000

1185
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:34,000
car.
They're paying 37,000.

1186
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,960
Buying them directly from Ford
through some fleet service

1187
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:39,200
program.
They buy 1000 of them for

1188
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:44,720
37,000, they run the shit out of
them for a year and then they

1189
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:50,600
sell them for 45,000 and or
42,000 or whatever it is.

1190
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,680
But they're selling it for more
than they paid for it.

1191
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,360
In our industry that is non
existent that does not happen.

1192
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,200
So you buy the product.
Let's say you buy a light

1193
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,480
fixture for $10,000.
You rent it out for a year.

1194
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:07,200
You've made 3000 or $4000.
You now sell it for four or

1195
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:11,640
$5000.
The math is completely different

1196
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:15,320
than the car rental industry.
And trying to explain this to

1197
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:20,400
people who are, you know,
Wharton School of Finance people

1198
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:25,760
or just really, really smart
Wall Street folks, they don't

1199
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,400
understand our industry.
They just don't get it.

1200
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,160
It's weird.
And I agree, it is weird.

1201
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:33,200
But.
It is what it is.

1202
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:36,640
So the the the the program you
just described sound like

1203
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,760
Michael Cannon's view.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1204
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,040
I mean it, it's similar.
But the problem is even Michael

1205
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:46,440
Cannon struggling it with it
now, because Michael Cannon's

1206
01:16:46,440 --> 01:16:51,200
view came from Bob Cannon, and
Bob Cannon would buy Cyber

1207
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,840
Lights for $5000.
He'd rent them for exactly 2

1208
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:58,200
years and at exactly 2 years, he
put them up for sale.

1209
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:02,440
He'd sell them for $5000 used.
It was exactly the same as the

1210
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:08,040
car rental business back then.
But he'd make seven, $8000

1211
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,120
renting them for those two
years, $10,000.

1212
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:13,360
But the math today is totally
different.

1213
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,560
So that moving light today is 10
or $12,000.

1214
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,920
The rent is half of what you
were getting paid for a cyber

1215
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,320
light.
And you know, the used price is

1216
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,280
is garbage.
You know, because product is

1217
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:30,560
just aging out so quickly now.
And there's just so much of it.

1218
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,480
And it is commoditized now that
you know moving lights aren't

1219
01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:36,600
special anymore.
No, it's that commoditization.

1220
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:41,280
It's that when, when I was with
Obi's, you know, and I was

1221
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,760
trying to compete with somebody,
I was explaining myself to, you

1222
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,600
know, versus some other company
and I was trying to convince

1223
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:49,480
them that we were a boutique
lighting company.

1224
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:53,640
We were here to service your
unique needs and we want to make

1225
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,280
you know, this too are yours.
We don't, we don't have, you

1226
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:03,480
know, every fixture out there in
our inventory, but we can get

1227
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,560
every fixture out there.
Yeah.

1228
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,280
You know, and I modeled a lot of
things with the Obies that other

1229
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,680
companies would get later, but
we would sub rent a lot of

1230
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,760
stuff.
You know, Mike, David and I

1231
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,280
would talk and it was like, no,
let's not buy that.

1232
01:18:17,480 --> 01:18:19,320
You know, let's rent all that
stuff.

1233
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:22,760
You know, let's, let's rent the
stuff that we don't have to

1234
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:26,640
have, but let's own the stuff
that isn't going to depreciate,

1235
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,920
that isn't going to, you know,
need to be turned over

1236
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:30,840
constantly.
Infrastructure.

1237
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:33,560
Buy the infrastructure, rent the
other stuff.

1238
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,840
You know exactly.
And, and, and now with, with

1239
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,640
four Wall and Main Light and a
couple other companies, it's

1240
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:44,200
really facilitated that model.
So hopefully the future of our

1241
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:48,080
industry goes back to being a
service provider.

1242
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:53,200
You know, how can I, how can I
add value to this, you know,

1243
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:56,480
relationship and this this
truckload of stuff.

1244
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,400
How do I add value to that?
Well, and that's starting to go

1245
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:03,280
away because, you know, I had a
conversation this morning and

1246
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:05,720
again, I won't mention names
because it was a fairly private

1247
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,360
conversation, but he was talking
about a particular tour, a large

1248
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:14,160
tour that is happening.
And he's done the tour for

1249
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:17,680
years.
He's got 30-40 year

1250
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:21,720
relationships with the the team
that he's been working with on

1251
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:26,480
the tour, the manager, etcetera.
And suddenly they put some new

1252
01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:31,200
managers in and these people are
all like breaching contracts and

1253
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:35,400
beating you up on your pricing
and just grinding the hell out

1254
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:38,880
of you and all this stuff.
And I see that happening more

1255
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:41,080
and more now.
So that relationship that you

1256
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,520
had with this Fleetwood Mac that
you've been working with for the

1257
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,560
last 25 years, suddenly they've
put another layer of managers

1258
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:52,960
between them and and the vendors
and those partnerships are less

1259
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,680
meaningful.
Right, Sadly and that's and

1260
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,880
that's a real challenge and and
there's only a few people I know

1261
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:01,760
that are still in the business
that have four years experience.

1262
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,760
So I probably know who you were
talking with earlier today, but

1263
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:11,200
but those that that is very
challenging it's.

1264
01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:15,880
It's a real interesting time in
our industry as we hit this

1265
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:20,000
maturity.
I had the pleasure of of seeing

1266
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:26,560
a an exhibit at an Art Museum
that was the earliest of cars

1267
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:29,080
and they were made by carriage
makers.

1268
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:35,400
And, and this is before we had,
you know, Ford and a model, you

1269
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:39,320
know, and an assembly line and,
and the craftsmanship that went

1270
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:42,920
into some of these early things.
They were gorgeous, You know,

1271
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,800
whether it was a, you know,
early Duesenberg or, you know,

1272
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:51,360
whatever, but but they were so
beautiful and they were and and

1273
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,760
that's was the birth of that
industry.

1274
01:20:54,200 --> 01:21:02,520
And, and then it as it matures,
as it matures, as it matures, as

1275
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,360
it matures, some of the artistry
disappears.

1276
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:08,040
Not completely gone.
I mean, there's still some

1277
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:09,680
beautifully designed automobiles
out there.

1278
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,840
But but you, you know, the
maturity is, is such that you're

1279
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:17,880
you're now appealing to a mass
audience.

1280
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,520
You can't, you know, you know,
when you're making your first

1281
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,920
coach, it is for the king or the
queen.

1282
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:25,600
And it's an amazing automobile.
I mean, yeah, we're we're

1283
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,720
talking Downton Abbey era kind
of things.

1284
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:31,280
And it's handcrafted and it's
beautiful And, and the, and the

1285
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:34,560
first, you know, the first very
lights were amazing and, and

1286
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,920
rocked the world.
And we shouldn't forget

1287
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,680
Morpheus.
And what what of course, what

1288
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,440
Richardson was doing before the
rest of the people even knew

1289
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,880
what movie lights were.
He had hand commands and those

1290
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,320
things.
And I think, I think Zeb Cochran

1291
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:49,600
might have even been involved
with some of that.

1292
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:50,560
It was.
It.

1293
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:55,000
Was and, and those early
innovators and, and just that,

1294
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:59,520
that craftsmanship and then as
it becomes mass appeal,

1295
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:04,120
everything becomes a little bit
more generic and

1296
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,160
interchangeable.
Made in the Acme factory in

1297
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,520
China now.
So what does that tell you?

1298
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,760
You know what I mean?
Like now they're nothing but a

1299
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:15,760
brand.
We're just a brand.

1300
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,640
And I'm sure that people from
Verilight would argue that, you

1301
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:19,920
know, they're still an
innovator.

1302
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,040
And they are.
I mean, yeah, they've got great

1303
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,000
engineers and great people and
everything else.

1304
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:28,400
But you know, something gets
lost in that translation.

1305
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:30,920
I think it, it's funny because
the house that I'm sitting in

1306
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:35,840
now, I'm up in Canada and in the
Canadian Rocky Mountains and I,

1307
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:41,520
I had this house built in 2005.
And at the same time, I was

1308
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:46,480
building a house in South
Florida in a very mature market

1309
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:51,560
from a construction standpoint,
the, the quality of construction

1310
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:57,000
and the quality of craftsmanship
and the passion here in Canada

1311
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:00,000
versus what was in Florida at
the time.

1312
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:04,440
So in Florida you had a lot of,
you know, Spanish speaking folks

1313
01:23:04,440 --> 01:23:06,840
that some were legal, some
weren't legal.

1314
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:10,880
You'd find beer cans and
cigarettes all over the place.

1315
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,640
If you walk through the house,
you know, when they were gone

1316
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:18,880
for the day or whatever, shoddy
stuff, shoddy work left and

1317
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,440
right, like let's just get it
done.

1318
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:22,720
It's time to go drinking, you
know, let's get out of here.

1319
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:26,080
Whereas here you still had all
these European Craftsman, like,

1320
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:31,200
you know, I was watching my
fireplace being built here by a

1321
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:36,040
European Mason and you know, I
was, I was blown away.

1322
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,520
I was like, wow, the
craftsmanship is incredible.

1323
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:42,120
The wood was just perfect.
Everything was done so nicely.

1324
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:47,520
So, you know, I saw that first
hand mature market that's very

1325
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:52,240
competitive versus a an older
school market that's a lot less

1326
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,400
competitive.
You have a few quality builders

1327
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,160
and that's it.
Everybody else is gone.

1328
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:59,920
Nobody's in this business.
But yeah, you know, we're not

1329
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:02,280
going to stop it.
It's just like AII talk a lot

1330
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,960
about AI on my podcast.
It's coming, it's here.

1331
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:07,520
You know, we're not going to
stop it.

1332
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:10,520
We just have to figure out how
to embrace it and use it so that

1333
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:13,400
it doesn't, you know, use us.
I.

1334
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:19,560
Guess the I'm not I'm not into
AI mean I'm not a you're.

1335
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,440
Not.
Studying AI, I'm aware of it.

1336
01:24:22,440 --> 01:24:24,080
I've read some articles on a
deception.

1337
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,800
The the take away for me on that
would be just like you said,

1338
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:36,240
people need to learn to use it
so that it doesn't use you.

1339
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:42,720
But one of the things that I've
always thought was important to

1340
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:48,760
teaching people you know, is you
need to manage your manager.

1341
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,720
OK.
Whatever position you are in an

1342
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:53,880
organization, you need to be
able to manage your manager.

1343
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:56,480
You need to know what his
expectations are.

1344
01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:00,160
When you're dealing with a
client, you're trying to manage

1345
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:01,960
your client.
You need to manage their

1346
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,000
expectations and what they
expected you.

1347
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:10,840
If I was a designer, I would be
really I would.

1348
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:15,240
I would want to be particularly
close to my client so that they

1349
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:22,160
continued to see my value and
not be able to replace me with

1350
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:23,920
a.
Collaborator, not a button

1351
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:25,160
presser.
Right.

1352
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:29,400
So yeah, so the the guy that is
going to go to AI to design his

1353
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:36,160
website is obviously has no sees
no value in the designer of his

1354
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:40,200
website.
Or the designer has has failed

1355
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:44,240
to to sometimes the designers
failed to show that value, you

1356
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:47,200
know, like I've dealt with some
shitty website designers.

1357
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:49,440
Trust me.
And some of these people, it's

1358
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:52,440
just like if I could replace you
with AII would do that today,

1359
01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:54,480
you know?
But then there are.

1360
01:25:54,480 --> 01:25:57,040
Others where you're like, I
can't imagine doing this without

1361
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,880
you.
I, I was, I was on a panel one

1362
01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:01,960
time back when I was
representing Obie's at one of

1363
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,280
those, you know, trade things.
And somebody from the audience

1364
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:08,240
said, what do you do when
somebody steals a client?

1365
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:13,800
And I said, I said, I don't
think I've ever had anyone steal

1366
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,880
a client.
I've lost a few because I didn't

1367
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:21,640
pay them enough attention.
Someone got them, but nobody

1368
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:23,720
stole it from me.
And they inherited.

1369
01:26:24,440 --> 01:26:29,080
You know, and, and so I think
with AI you need to be, you

1370
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:33,880
know, cautious of that.
You need to not let AI, they

1371
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:37,360
can't steal it from you but but
make sure that you're adding

1372
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,880
enough value to every
relationship you're in to.

1373
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:43,080
So that's not an option.
So.

1374
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:45,760
It's not an option.
You should only be adding value

1375
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:47,520
to every relationship.
I mean you.

1376
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:50,480
This is always a give and take
thing.

1377
01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:54,840
I mean I need to add value to
your conversation to justify you

1378
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:58,120
having me on the podcast.
I've got to add value to this

1379
01:26:58,120 --> 01:26:58,960
relationship.
Yeah.

1380
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,480
And and I agree with you And,
and to people in our industry.

1381
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:05,840
I think one of the things that
that I would like to impart if

1382
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:12,720
they stayed this long to watch
this whole thing is a a need for

1383
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:17,360
a true North star that keeps you
going.

1384
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:21,080
OK.
You need to know what motivates

1385
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:25,800
you to work this hard trying to,
you know, just to sleep on a bus

1386
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:32,640
and to work 16 hour days.
And you have to have a focal

1387
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,320
point.
And, and for me, I, I was taught

1388
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:39,040
this by, by my, you know, one of
my, one of my earlier jobs when

1389
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:40,360
I worked with Gary Faye as a
promoter.

1390
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:43,720
It's the audience.
And I've always thought that no

1391
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:47,720
matter what I did in this
industry, I worked for the kid

1392
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:51,400
in the seat.
OK, That was the only person

1393
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:53,960
that brought original money into
the system.

1394
01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:57,680
It passes through a lot of
greasy fingers before it gets to

1395
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:01,320
me.
But I actually work for the kid

1396
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:06,000
in the seat.
And, and that person, that

1397
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:10,360
couple that saved their money
and bought a three hour

1398
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:13,080
vacation, they didn't go to
Cancun.

1399
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:16,000
They couldn't go to France.
But for three hours, they bought

1400
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:19,800
a ticket to see Willie Nelson
tonight, Fleetwood Mac tonight,

1401
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:23,240
insert name here.
That for them is going to be a

1402
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:26,960
three hour window of time that
they think about nothing else.

1403
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:30,320
It's going to be a total
wonderful experience and

1404
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,360
everything we do has to
contribute to that.

1405
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:35,320
I completely.
Agree with you.

1406
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,400
I've given the same lecture to
to ticket takers.

1407
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,000
It's like that from the time
they enter that venue until the

1408
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:44,200
time they leave.
This is their moment and we're

1409
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,640
all part of that experience for
them and we need to make it as

1410
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:50,760
good as possible.
And tomorrow when that person is

1411
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:54,520
back at his job, he does it a
little bit better.

1412
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:59,920
He doesn't dent my trash can.
He doesn't, he doesn't cut me

1413
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:02,320
off at the light because he
feels a little bit better about

1414
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:04,480
himself because he had that
moment.

1415
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:08,320
And, and we get to give that the
entertainment industry is a is a

1416
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:12,480
wonderful, wonderful opportunity
to speak into people's lives, to

1417
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:16,120
give them something that that
they can't get anywhere else.

1418
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,360
And, and even though we're
behind the scenes and we're the

1419
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:23,320
guy that that picks up the four
out and loads the cable cases,

1420
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:26,560
it's still an integral part of
that experience.

1421
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,280
You know, Scott, that's such an
important.

1422
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,840
Such an important thought and,
and you know, The thing is, if

1423
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:36,760
you think about it outside of
like getting married, your first

1424
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:41,240
child or all of your children
being born, maybe building your

1425
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:44,280
first home or whatever.
One of the things you remember

1426
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:50,600
most is when I saw Aerosmith in
1976 or when I went and saw ACDC

1427
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:53,960
in 1982 and this and this and
this happened.

1428
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:57,920
Very vivid, very clear memories,
unless you're on acid, of

1429
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:03,400
course, but very clear memories
of these these events and, and

1430
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:07,640
your job is to make that the
most incredible experience of

1431
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,240
their life.
Like not, oh, the sound kept

1432
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:12,840
squealing and my ears hurt so I
had to leave.

1433
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:16,840
Or, you know, a if something
fell on the stage and they had

1434
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:19,440
to end early or whatever.
Like, you want to create an

1435
01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:23,080
incredible memory for those
people because I have so many

1436
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:26,320
friends who can remember every
concert they ever went to and

1437
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:28,320
they could sit and tell you
about it in detail.

1438
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:31,880
That sporting events are another
one where, you know, people are

1439
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:34,440
going to remember all that pass
he threw at the end of the game

1440
01:30:34,440 --> 01:30:39,640
with two seconds left, you know,
I mean, so it's such a great

1441
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:40,680
point.
I love that.

1442
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:42,960
And we get to be, you know, we
get to be a part of that.

1443
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:46,800
And and I'm, you know, I'm a
believer that that someday, you

1444
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:49,720
know, in heaven, somebody's
going to come up to me and say,

1445
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:52,440
hey, I was there.
Thank you.

1446
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:55,080
That's so cool.
You know, a lot of my work was

1447
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,480
was was with Christian artists
and I just imagine that

1448
01:30:58,480 --> 01:31:03,000
happening and you know, but it
but even if it even if that part

1449
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:06,280
of it doesn't happen, the fact
that we made someone's life

1450
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:10,160
better today.
Yeah, it's so cool.

1451
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:12,480
That's enough.
That's enough to justify living.

1452
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:15,920
I mean, it's enough to justify
52 year career.

1453
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:20,800
It's it, it's what, you know,
put my kids through school and

1454
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,080
allows me to have a nice happy
retirement.

1455
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:26,200
And it was all.
It was all.

1456
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:29,880
Based on one night at a time,
one kid at a time, how can I

1457
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:32,840
make their life better tonight?
Good on you.

1458
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:36,360
What a great place to end.
Thank you so much for taking the

1459
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:37,960
time today, Scott.
I appreciate it.

1460
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,160
A.
Whole bunch.

1461
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:41,560
All right, my friend, enjoy your
retirement.

1462
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:42,520
Thank you.