#249 Michael Keeling

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First of all, I will tell you
that it was a very fun episode

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and I hope you enjoy it because
I certainly enjoyed recording

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it.
And Michael's a long time

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friend.
We've been friends for, I

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believe, over 30 years.
And sorry, I got a bit of a

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cold.
So I'm talking funny.

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And so I'm talking about Michael
Keeling, of course.

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And so anyways, I met him when
he was at Obi's and he did a

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couple tours and used stuff that
I was repping at Martin and we

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became good friends.
And I've known him for many

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years.
And so we talked about a lot of

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the stuff that he's working on
today, but we talked a little

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bit about his past as well.
Very interesting guy.

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He's done a lot of really cool
things.

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He's done a few of the most epic
music videos from a lighting

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standpoint ever.
And if you asked me right now to

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name what I thought was like the
number one music video as far as

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lighting or creativity with
lighting or, you know,

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innovation with lighting, I
would probably really near the

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top of the list would be
Coldplay speed of sound.

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And Michael did that.
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So yeah, couple of things to

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talk about today.
So first, as you probably know

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by now, if you're in our
industry, our friend Craig

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Burrows passed away.
I talked about him in the

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previous episode, so I'm not
going to go too far into that.

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I did travel last week, which is
2 weeks ago by the time you hear

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this, but I did travel last week
to Austin for his funeral and

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the celebration later, which was
a very cool party actually, with

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the Swinging Johnsons, the
industry band playing, which is

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Robert Mokri and Tommy Hall and
Scott Church.

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Just, you know, good guys that
everybody knows.

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Bruce Jordal, good band.
And so they played.

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There was a huge screen up just
going through images with Craig,

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and that was super sad watching
that all night.

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And then his stepson Chase's
band played as well.

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Very good band, by the way.
And of course, I got to give a

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couple big hugs to Kat, Craig's
wife, and to his family.

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And so, yeah, it was a cool
event, but it was a really cool

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event from a standpoint of just
being able to see so many people

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that I haven't seen in a while.
Richard Bellevue and Lowell

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Fowler, two of the founding
members of High End systems.

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MOKRI.
I got to hang with a bit and

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Bruce and just so many people, a
bunch of other people from high

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end that I hadn't seen in years,
Karen Bowler and Melissa and

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just Billy, Katie and lots of
people that were just really

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great to hug and say hello to.
And I always say, I mean, great

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party, horrible reason.
You know, I, I, I'll miss Craig

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a lot and I know a lot of people
will.

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So I'm not trying to take your
Thunder by saying that.

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Of course, moving on to AI now.
So I'm working on an episode

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with Bob Boniel, who I'm sure
you all know, and he's become a

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big AI guy.
And especially as it relates to

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our industry.
And he actually, I just saw

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yesterday, I haven't read it
yet, so I can't comment on it,

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but I just saw that he put out
an article about it.

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So we're talking about we're
booking a date.

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I'm not sure when it is.
It might even be booked by now.

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I'll have to ask Sarah.
But Bob will be coming on and

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doing a very AI focused podcast
with me.

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And so a few highlights this
week or the last couple of

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weeks, Apple intelligence, I'm
sure you've seen this by now.

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If you're an iPhone guy, you
know, it's, it's controversial

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already in a sense.
On on one hand, you know,

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Apple's stock has hit a new
highest ever, But on another

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hand, you know, they're saying
it's hugely safe.

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But you've got Elon Musk saying
that if it's baked into iOS,

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it's not safe.
And you know, they're they're

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bluffing you by saying it's
safe.

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And he's banning Apple devices
from all Tesla space XX

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companies or facilities.
So, yeah, I mean, it's it's

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complicated.
I guess.

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You know, the market is really
happy that Apple is doing this.

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The market being the stock
market, I think many regular

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people who don't understand
technology really well, this is

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going to give them access to AI
in their daily lives.

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And so I guess some of the key
functionalities in this Apple

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intelligence, which I believe
really is just ChatGPT, but some

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of the key functionalities
include managing notifications,

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summarizing and rewriting text
across apps, generating images,

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transcribing phone calls, which
is one that I will definitely

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use a lot.
Safari highlights, math notes,

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Gen.
Moji, which I don't even know

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what the hell that is, but I'm
sure every kid does.

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Image playground and enhanced
Siri capabilities, which I'm

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looking forward to because
Google people, Google phone

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people are always telling me how
you know, I'm such a loser with

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an iPhone and their Siri is
better than my Siri.

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ChatGPT 4 exhibits deceptive
behaviors in simple test

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scenarios.
Experiments have showed that

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ChatGPT 4 demonstrated deceptive
behavior 99.16% of the time.

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So what does that mean?
I don't really know yet, but I

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don't think it's going to help
generate trust or at least make

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trust automatic.
I think people are going to

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question it for sure if it's
giving deceptive responses or or

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showing deceptive behavior.
Here's a weird one.

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Generative AI models are
competing in the first Miss AI

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pageant this month.
So it's basically AI generated

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women.
And you know, you're picking the

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prettiest one.
So I think it's a bit creepy.

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I'm sure it's going to get some
people wound up, especially

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women probably are going to
think this is terrible for

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women.
You know, how can you take our

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pageants away from us?
Prizes include 5000 cash and a

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bunch of other sort of side
prizes like mentorship programs

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and different things.
And I think we can all expect

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this to move into social media
where we're going to start

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seeing influencers that are
fully AI generated and they're

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probably already there.
So not the best use of AI in my

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opinion.
And here's one that I read that

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I really don't like.
AI can easily replace CEOs

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saving money and improving
decision making with data-driven

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decisions.
Hmm, that's interesting.

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So you know, people are
complaining about losing their

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jobs.
I've just been replaced by AI.

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Michael Keeling is a production
designer, creative show

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designer, director, and producer
for live concert festivals,

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content, artist production,
media campaigns and creative

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productions.
Michael has worked with

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incredible artists including
Lenny Kravitz, Coldplay, Justin

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Timberlake, Aerosmith, No Doubt,
Incubus, Genesis, Pink Floyd,

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Frank Zappa to name a few.
Michael is the CEO of Project X

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which he started nearly 30 years
ago.

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You can visit Project X
Collective dot live and learn

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more.
Michael has many industry

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accolades including MTV 2 VMA
award for the Bravery, Honest

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Mistake, which we did speak
about and he'll tell you a

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little bit about it.
Best music video and MTVVMA

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award for Lenny Kravitz, Are You
going to Go My Way, which we

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also spoke about on this
podcast.

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Michael's motto is dream design,
deliver.

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Today.
Michael is the productions and

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creative producer for S2 BN
Entertainment.

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We had the pleasure of talking
with Michael back in 2020.

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You can check that out, episode
number one O 6 on Spotify or

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geeseofgear.com.
So please, let's welcome Michael

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Keeling back to the show and
remember to like and subscribe.

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Thanks Michael Keeling.
How are you mate?

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I'm doing good, Marcel.
How about yourself, buddy?

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I'm a little bit sick. 6060 hit
me on Saturday and kicked me in

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the balls with some kind of a
flu, COVID, cold, dwarfed

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together mess of bugs.
Well. 6063 hit me last Friday.

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Oh, did.
I yeah, I keep forgetting we're

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a day apart.
Yeah, man.

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Forgetting about it.
It blew me away when I saw this.

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I saw so many different
birthdays happening right around

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this time that that just showed
that all of our parents were

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getting it on back in in October
of the previous year.

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Seems like a good time.
Like I grew up in in Canada, so

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you know when it starts getting
cold, you got nothing else to

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do.
There you go.

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Hey, listen, so I really wanted
to try to start this off and

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first of all, I appreciate you
having me back on, but I really

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wanted to give some empathy and
condolences to a lot of friends

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and associates.
I just had a cousin of mine,

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Danny Lindley, die yesterday.
That hits really close to home.

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You know, I wanted to basically
run down the people that aren't

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forgotten in our industry like
Stan Green.

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Yeah, Stan, these are people
that I've worked with personally

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and have a ton of respect for.
So I don't want, you know,

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please forgive me if I miss
anybody.

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No, you know, obviously Newt
Bloomberg, you know, Andy

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Figueroa, an amazing under, you
know, I'm just over achiever in

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his own right.
I worked with him on a major

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project about five years ago.
Then a year after that I found

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out that he had issues and he
was a clear, you know, dear

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friend to a lot of us, extremely
creative programmer.

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I've been very fortunate to work
with, you know, some amazing

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programmers brought my ideas to
life, right?

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I think when I first, when I
first met you, you were, weren't

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you working with Arnold Surami
or something?

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I don't know.
Well, like, you know, that's a

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whole another story.
So Arnold began.

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Basically, I was the executive
vice president of sales for

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Obi's, and I had taken my wife,
I had taken my wife down to the

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Strand, which was about three
blocks from our office.

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And I went to see a show there
one night and I saw this kid

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behind the console, and it was
Arnold Surami.

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And he was bounded at busking.
You know, basically I hit him up

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and I said, hey, kid, you want
to basically, you know, learn

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how to do this on a professional
level.

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And, you know, that's when I was
recruiting talent for the

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Telescan market and so on.
And then we brought Arnold, then

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00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,920
trained him on the Telescan, and
ultimately he flourished into

226
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,160
Arnold.
Ceramic, I didn't know that.

227
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,120
I didn't know that that's how
his his career kind of got

228
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,680
started because I mean, he went
on really quickly to be on like

229
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,240
Michael Jackson and like
Massive.

230
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,040
Because we put him shows.
Yeah, well, we put him there,

231
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,800
right.
So ultimately I've been very

232
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,840
fortunate.
At that time, I was the Booker

233
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,920
basically for obese.
Yeah, right.

234
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:58,080
And was managing 7085% of the
sales of the concert touring

235
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,000
market.
So yeah, when we had the

236
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,360
Telescans, that was my baby, you
know?

237
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,000
And yeah, we had Michael
Jackson.

238
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,200
We had all these.
We had to recruit talent and get

239
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,400
him in the programming mode
quickly.

240
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,960
And Arnold overachieved.
And then ultimately he became

241
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,400
our trainer of these people.
This is where I also, you know,

242
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,960
met Luke La Fortune for the 1st.
Yeah, right.

243
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,360
Yeah.
And then I asked Luke once

244
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,880
again.
I saw him down at the pier in

245
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,440
Santa Monica and met with him
and I was just blown away by the

246
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,880
show.
First of all, one of one of the

247
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,560
most talented individuals to
control color.

248
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,160
You know, and and and the deep.
Love what show was it?

249
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,880
That was either Saltim Banco or
Mesterre, so probably Saltim

250
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,040
Banco was the first one that was
a residency down there.

251
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,440
So I met him and then asked him
to come in and then we put him

252
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,920
on Gypsy Kings.
So when he wasn't touring that

253
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,160
'cause he wanted to get in in
the touring market.

254
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,240
So there became the friendship
with Luke La Fortune, which

255
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,440
again back in when I left Obi's
and we parted ways, partnered

256
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,160
with Brickman for a year.
Then I partnered with, I would

257
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,800
excuse me, with Luke for about
four and a half, five years and

258
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,080
we designed and that's where I
was.

259
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,000
Is Luke still working?
He, you know, he's been on a

260
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,840
hiatus for quite some time, but
he just redid Mistaire, right?

261
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,160
So did he.
If you haven't done it, yeah,

262
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,920
there's a lot of, there's gonna
be a lot of things coming down

263
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,880
with Cirque on in the Vegas
Strip, but Mistaire is one that

264
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,240
is timeless.
So they decided to redesign it

265
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,160
and they brought Luke back in,
which was smart of them to from

266
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,520
the origin and and they were,
you know, they were smart to do

267
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,760
that.
But at the same time, gave Luke

268
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,480
another life to actually get
back in the game and to show his

269
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,480
true talents.
Because, you know, once you see

270
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,520
an artist like that, yeah, you
you always want to see more from

271
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,000
him.
And unfortunately, he, you know,

272
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,880
he had a rough time after Cirque
and then parted.

273
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,120
And I don't want to speak for
him, but at the end of the day,

274
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,400
he's like a brother to me.
Yeah.

275
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,119
So once in a great while, we get
a chat together and and catch

276
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:06,800
up.
But I, I.

277
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,760
Haven't seen him in forever.
Like, I didn't know if he left

278
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,880
the business or what, but not
that I'm, you know, at the

279
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,440
cutting edge of where
everybody's working or what

280
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,760
they're doing, but.
Yeah.

281
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,680
And again, I don't want to speak
for too many people, but I

282
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,000
speak, you know, Luke has he
spent some time in Japan after

283
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,119
the, you know, the, the move
away from Sir.

284
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,720
Then he spent a lot of time with
Franco Degron and he did all the

285
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,640
Franco stuff in Macau and so on
because that's split between Guy

286
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,120
and Franco, you know, was not
very amicable.

287
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,080
Yeah.
So ultimately, you know, Luke

288
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,760
got after I think it was O or
after Kaw.

289
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,440
There was definitely some time
that that Luke needed off

290
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,680
because those shows back-to-back
to back will drive a person

291
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,880
crazy, let alone that time
frame, let alone French

292
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,240
Canadian.
OK, so at the end of the day be.

293
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:00,560
Careful there, son.
Yeah.

294
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,720
You know, hey listen, my bosses
are the same.

295
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:04,800
So at the end of.
The day are they?

296
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,400
Yeah, You know, I don't, I don't
call myself one though, because

297
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,760
I live in South Florida and they
hate French Canadians in South

298
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,440
Florida.
So I'm, I'm like, no, I just

299
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,840
have a funny name.
Yeah.

300
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,360
So we're not, we're getting off
a little bit off.

301
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,280
Oh, yeah, yeah, You, you.
You were sorry about that.

302
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,560
We got off.
The pageant, you know, we want

303
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,720
to go so Andy big time friend
lost him three years ago, I

304
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,080
think it was.
And Gandalf, Eric Pierce, you

305
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,920
know, he was instrumental so
hard because I would literally

306
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,760
just talking to Eric a week
before the hot weather project

307
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,040
and every time I had called, he
would basically say, oh, it's

308
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,800
the eccentric one.
Yeah.

309
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,760
Because all of my very little
left to center, I always

310
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,680
challenged.
I mean, he helped me on so many

311
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,720
different things, whether it was
flying cars over Aerosmith in

312
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,760
2007 for a NASCAR commercial
that I was doing.

313
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,800
And I was a show director for
the band and then the Goo Goo

314
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,640
Dolls, you know, I mean, I had a
multiple grand opening on winch

315
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,080
drum systems and all this shit
and moving trusses that were

316
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,440
just phenomenal.
And I always went back to him

317
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:20,360
because literally in I think it
was 87, Obi put me in touch with

318
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,160
Zappa.
And that was my first design

319
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,920
tour.
And on that tour, I used the

320
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,200
Strand Par scanner, right Eric
show lights, which was like a

321
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,800
mile and a half from our office,
the only one that knew him at

322
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,600
the time and he had something to
do with him.

323
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,200
So I had a training session with
him and those things were the

324
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,680
worst freaking things I ever had
a chance to work with.

325
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,720
But that was my relationship
that started with him.

326
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,400
And there was always this little
animosity between Show Lights

327
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,120
and Obi's because they you were
either an Obi's crew and so on.

328
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,760
And you had Opie and you had all
these guys and Bob Hughes and

329
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,240
all these people over at Show
Lights.

330
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,960
And then we had our crew and
there was always my stuff.

331
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,560
So I had to go into their house
and get trained.

332
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,880
But Eric was always a gentleman
and to me, a freaking genius,

333
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,800
right, that we lost.
I was talking.

334
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,040
To somebody recently about the
people that went through Obi's,

335
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,000
like, I mean just an insane list
of names.

336
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,840
Arnold Salami was one of them.
Look where he is.

337
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,760
Arnold again, I always look at
it this way and go.

338
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,680
I was very fortunate to be a lot
of the Booker at that time.

339
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,880
Then Paul George became the
Booker and I ended up doing just

340
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,800
sales of talent, right.
But I was lucky to be

341
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,360
instrumental in that early days
where we found it.

342
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:38,200
And like the Blake Elkins, which
was a a, you know, greedy

343
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,520
touring guy.
Now he's like an amazing guy

344
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,920
and, and you know, in Manhattan
and I love him to death.

345
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,120
And you got the Kenny Ackerman's
that I had a chance to to meet

346
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,880
put in on as a telescan tech on
Genesis or something like that

347
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,480
when I was the GC on that one.
So many different other talent

348
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,600
that is out there.
Kevin Tyler, Kevin Tyler loads

349
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:03,040
of people was my my second
electrician in 85 through 87 on

350
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,680
Chicago and now he's a stage
manager.

351
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,920
So they all just go on like like
I have.

352
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,200
I've always been this
convenient.

353
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,520
That has changed changed.
But let me just blast through

354
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,320
here again.
One of the gentlemen that I

355
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,640
don't want to forget too,
Charlie Mailings.

356
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,000
We lost him about 5.
Years.

357
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,480
I already forgot, you know,
like, I mean, here's the

358
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,440
problem.
As we're getting older, it's not

359
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,520
just, you know, that more people
are dying, but you start

360
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,840
forgetting and you're like, God,
is he still alive?

361
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,480
I can't remember, you know, and
I it's terrible.

362
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,160
I just don't.
Forget, you know, at the end of

363
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,160
the day, I, I look at it, you
know, I've got a couple more.

364
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,520
I got Randy Mayer who is really
close.

365
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,760
Yeah.
Randy spent, I spent a ton of

366
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,760
time with Randy in the early
days when he was still at high

367
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:50,560
end.
Yeah.

368
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,040
And then he started working for
O'Brien and he was my go to guy

369
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,240
there for a video for a a long
time, especially in the music

370
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,520
video in the commercial world.
Yeah, you know, anytime I had a

371
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,560
commercial property basically
that had video and I was I was

372
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,760
kind of the go to guy in that
industry for 95 through 2010.

373
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,880
Anything that came to me, it was
like, Randy, I need you to do

374
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,280
it, I need to do it for this and
let's get it done.

375
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,000
And he was that kind of guy that
would just go perfect, you know,

376
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,240
and he was my video contact then
the guy that really started it

377
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,240
for me that nobody even knows a
gentleman by the name of Anthony

378
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Gregorio.
Anthony was basically part of

379
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,240
the El Mani mafia that I call
it.

380
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,600
And El Mani was where we grew up
and our net core of people.

381
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,240
Anthony started working for ACDC
Equipment Company, came out of

382
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,480
Vietnam, went to ACDC, somehow
got involved there.

383
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,240
His brother Mike Gregorio got me
started there.

384
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,800
His brother John Gregorio's my
cousin.

385
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,640
So it's a little bit incestual,
but that family.

386
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,680
Anthony got killed on a
motorcycle about six years ago.

387
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,200
And he started the whole game
for me.

388
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,400
I mean, literally it again, 15
1/2 years old.

389
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,800
I was working on the you know, I
was working on the Oscars, the

390
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,520
billboards, all these shows that
were blew me away.

391
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,480
So he's that guy.
And most recently, you know, our

392
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,560
loss of Craig Burroughs.
You know, you were fortunate

393
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,800
enough and I and I thank you for
obviously going to the funeral

394
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,120
last week.
I couldn't make it.

395
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:29,480
His lovely wife, everybody.
Craig was just I have so much

396
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,800
respect for his class that he
brought to the game and his

397
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:40,200
genuine just friendship.
Yeah, yeah, it's like it was it

398
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,520
was never.
It was like, Michael, what do

399
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,360
you need?
Yeah, he helped me last time.

400
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:48,080
He really helped me out was a
commercial that I did with

401
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:51,040
Justin Timberlake, which was my
fourth campaign with Justin.

402
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,280
And I wanted the spiky.
Yeah, He he came up with like 80

403
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,560
of them for me, right.
And there was nothing else that

404
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,520
I wanted other than that because
it it had a look.

405
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,360
And if you ever see this video,
we'll show it.

406
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,240
It's like I made lights feel
like they were alive.

407
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,560
Yeah.
And I always like to take a look

408
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,160
at that.
So you know he.

409
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,520
Craig.
We missed.

410
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,000
You know what, he one of the
things I was thinking about this

411
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,160
because he was kind of a guy
that was like a sales manager's

412
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,840
nightmare, but a customer's
dream.

413
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:25,800
And not because he gave gear
away, yeah, but because he

414
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,760
didn't want to try to sell
people like he, he he just

415
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,200
wanted to hang out and be a fun
dude and and, you know, just

416
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,440
network and shake lots of hands
and give lots of hugs and go to

417
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,840
lots of shows and stuff.
And he was really great in that

418
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,680
role.
You know, he really did a great

419
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,320
job in that role.
You remind me.

420
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,240
I went to South by South one
year and he brought me out.

421
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,640
You know, he's like, came pick
me up.

422
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,960
We hung out for a night or two
together and then ultimately I

423
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,760
was with him and his family
watching his son played a band

424
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,840
at a big BBQ.
Oh, that's cool.

425
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,360
And it was good.
And it was like totally removed.

426
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,520
I had a band there and I was
managing at the time.

427
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,480
And then I was doing this or
that and and I was there meeting

428
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,080
with another manager and Craig's
like, hey man, let's just go

429
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,840
left and let me take you
someplace.

430
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,200
I like that.
And that's what I loved about

431
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,880
him.
We'll always.

432
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,080
Like to talk to him, he said.
He was genuine.

433
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,960
And to me, I think I made this
very clear, he was just like

434
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,760
you.
You made Martin to me right back

435
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,680
in the day, Martin was that
wiggly light based on its go

436
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,920
world.
And then we were buying lights.

437
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,800
The only reason why we got into
them was my relationship with

438
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,440
you.
And you really spreaded that for

439
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,800
me, that then I ended up selling
it to other designers and

440
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,640
realized that same thing with
Craig.

441
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,320
Craig was the voice and the
person in front of Roby.

442
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,960
Yeah.
And I didn't believe it because,

443
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,360
Yeah.
Well, yeah, right.

444
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,080
Same thing.
Sure, actually.

445
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,440
So then there was creds there,
right.

446
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,360
I didn't know him really from
high end, but I knew him from,

447
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,560
you know, the the Roby days.
And then he introduced me to a

448
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,000
lot of product.
And then it was like, sure,

449
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:03,480
absolutely.
I'm sold.

450
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,120
I love.
That so I went to the funeral,

451
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,880
but American Airlines had other
ideas.

452
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,640
And so my, my girlfriend and I,
because we were on our way up

453
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,840
here to Canada and I had to, I
paid $900 in change fees to get

454
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,200
us through Austin.
And so, you know, they, they got

455
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,600
us there like the funeral
started at 11.

456
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,280
We were supposed to arrive at
10.

457
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,920
We arrived at like 12, ran as
fast as we could, got the rental

458
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,520
car and we're on our way to the
funeral and we get a text saying

459
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,120
it was a beautiful service, I'm
sorry you couldn't make it.

460
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,640
And I'm like, get out of here.
And so, but we got to go to the

461
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,040
celebration that night and it
was so awesome.

462
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,040
It was gut wrenching, but
beautiful to be there.

463
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,000
Just such a great group of
people, many of whom I hadn't

464
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,920
seen in forever.
You know, Lowell Fowler up

465
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,200
singing with with the band and
stuff was really fun.

466
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,680
And you know you.
Just saw Craig.

467
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,360
Yeah.
You just saw Craig a couple

468
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,360
weeks earlier at the race,
right, Which blew me away.

469
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,280
And I was so happy that you guys
were there and was like, man, if

470
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,920
I wish I would have known.
I would have loved to gone

471
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,880
because I'm a huge race fan,
period, right?

472
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,720
Yeah, yeah.
You can see in the back that's

473
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,040
Kenny Roger, Kenny Roberts right
there.

474
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,840
Then I've got Air Town Center in
the back.

475
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,720
I'm just a huge fan, right?
Yeah, I just have pictures of my

476
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,640
son spending all of my money in
race cars.

477
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:32,760
But.
There you go.

478
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,520
But now it was amazing.
Not because of the race.

479
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,720
To be honest, I'd rather watch
the race on television because I

480
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,240
really wanna know what's going
on and stuff, right?

481
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,600
You can't do that in person.
But I spent the day with Craig

482
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,080
and yeah, I'm so grateful that I
got to do it because we spent

483
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,360
hours talking about business,
talking about people in the

484
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:59,480
business, talking about our
families, talking about my kids

485
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,160
racing, talking about, you know,
we talked about Roby a lot and

486
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,720
where he saw it going.
And, and then I'm grateful I got

487
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,600
to sit down with Joseph, the
owner of Roby at the at the

488
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,160
celebration.
And I said hey.

489
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,040
And I said, hey, you know, I
just want to share with you what

490
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,040
Craig told me he felt the
direction of Roby should be

491
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,000
going forward, 'cause I don't
know if he ever shared it with

492
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,240
you.
And he goes please.

493
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,600
And, you know, so we just, we
sat and talked about the stuff

494
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,480
that, that he had said to me.
And one of the things which

495
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,280
really surprised me was that
Craig said there's no way Joseph

496
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,240
Will will ever sell the company
'cause I said it's got to be

497
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,600
getting to a a point now where
it's like, you know, pretty

498
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,960
exciting to, to go out and sell
it, you know, and we don't know

499
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,440
that the industry is going to
keep growing at the rate it is

500
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,800
right now.
And he said he'll never sell.

501
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,240
And I said why?
And he said because he's, he's

502
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,000
young and still really enjoys
it.

503
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,560
He's passionate about the
industry and, and the company

504
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,240
still.
And secondly, his family, his,

505
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,360
his kids are in it and, and they
love it.

506
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:05,840
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So.

507
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,760
It's a culture building such a
yeah, yeah, yeah, you're, you're

508
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,000
in rain did too, right?
Yeah, yeah.

509
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,400
So yeah, it's a bummer, man.
It's it's a real bummer that

510
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,040
that Craig's gone and.
I mean Craig, Charlie and

511
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,520
Charlie, all of them, all of
them.

512
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,200
It's like I'm like every day I
get up, man.

513
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,240
These days.
I've been very fortunate.

514
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,400
I have lost another 25 lbs.
I've been on a very homeopathic

515
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,080
life these days.
Yes, I don't stress much.

516
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,720
I'm working with an amazing
company in S2 BN Entertainment,

517
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,680
the name Michael Cole, that is
like his son.

518
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,000
I'm working for, for under his
son's division of exhibitions,

519
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,880
Jacob Cole.
I get chilled just thinking

520
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,760
about it because I, you know,
first time I met Michael, I was

521
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,240
one of the main contractors on
Floyd in 94, which I also my

522
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,480
wife at that time that I didn't
even know until 95, right.

523
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:07,080
So it's like when people ask me
what I'm doing, I go, you know,

524
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,480
I'm very, very fortunate.
I'm, I'm retained by the

525
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,480
company.
I've been working with them for

526
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,760
three years, almost three years
now as a senior producer.

527
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,920
I come with a creative
background and a business

528
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,920
background.
You know, my background book

529
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,680
management.
So I, I know how to do business

530
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:28,800
plans and these, these days I
really, I'm asked to it a lot of

531
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,960
times to do all the pitch decks.
So I've it's a lot of pitch

532
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,520
decks.
Sometimes I do the full concept,

533
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,880
sometimes I just take the slate
or what we call a slate, which

534
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,600
is a prop property.
And then I build the idea based

535
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,560
on what they give me.
Yeah.

536
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,520
So if I'm moving forward or you
want to President press, you

537
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,160
know, put this together at all
anyway on me.

538
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,600
Why don't you tell us who who
they are?

539
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Because I don't know that
everybody knows who they are.

540
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,800
Well, S2 VN Entertainment is
abbreviation for soon to be

541
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,160
named Yeah, or, which is what
Michael's company and or Michael

542
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,760
came up with and I don't know
100% of it, but I'm still in

543
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,240
the.
Early people who don't know who

544
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,480
Michael is.
Michael Cole, come on, He's the

545
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,240
promoter.
He's.

546
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,720
Not everyone knows well he's the
guy there.

547
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,080
You know, was a promoter of all
the David Bowie tours.

548
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:24,320
He was, you know, Pink Floyd,
Genesis, anything with Tony

549
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,320
Smith and the bands across the
pond.

550
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,240
I mean, you know, huge Canadian
promoter of the time that I

551
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:36,160
mean, I, I sit there and I, when
I chat with him, I, I listen,

552
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,520
right.
You're in, you're, you're in the

553
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,200
midst of a professional.
It's like, you know, he doesn't

554
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,120
say much, but when he says it,
boy, he speaks loudly with a

555
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,400
very soft tone.
You know, you're in a room and

556
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,120
you're being, you know, mentored
and tutored at the same time.

557
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,880
And you even at my age, it's
like, listen, my whole is you

558
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,560
know you.
He was one of what was he one of

559
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:07,400
the original CE OS or board
members of Live Nation and then

560
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,400
separated and started soon to be
named.

561
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,480
So they're heavy into, you know,
theater production.

562
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,960
So he does a lot of stuff from
Broadway.

563
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,360
He was the one of the main
promoters, brought the YouTube

564
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:23,680
package together for Spider Man.
We do just a ton of different

565
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,040
things in the theater world.
Working on a few projects in the

566
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,960
theater stuff right now, which
again, they'll send me, you

567
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,560
know, pretty much all the
content and then I'll create it,

568
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,440
produce the decks for him.
Yeah.

569
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,320
And then do some.
I I don't do a lot of the copy

570
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,360
edit.
I definitely do a bunch of it,

571
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,800
but at the same time I leave
that to the pros.

572
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,960
And then there's sometimes where
I just get concepts from it.

573
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,200
So he's got theater division,
he's got the live division.

574
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,120
So he's still promoting live,
very boutique style live

575
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,480
promoter these days versus the
big, you know, big players.

576
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Very quality.
Yeah.

577
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,160
Everything we do is quality.
And then we have the exhibition

578
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,280
side.
So exhibitions again.

579
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,080
The president of the company is
Jacob Cole, Michael's son.

580
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,000
Great.
I mean, smart young man when I

581
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,960
say young, anybody under 50 is
young to me these days, OK, very

582
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,160
intelligent.
And him and I get along to, you

583
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,320
know, just amazingly, we, we, we
work off of each other.

584
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,960
He asked for support in other
areas.

585
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,400
And I'm that kind of that
utility guy that, hey, if it

586
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,080
needs somebody to go out and do
this, then I'll go out and do

587
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,680
it.
Or find a creative team, which

588
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,960
what we'll do is we'll look at
packages like a Hot Wheels idea,

589
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,680
or we'll look at this idea for
Floyd or this idea for that.

590
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,200
And then I'll look at teams to
put concepts together to see

591
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,000
who, who fits that role best.
So these days I, I pretty much

592
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,440
put together, like I said, good
creative teams.

593
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,160
So I'm, I'm at that age these
days where I know where my place

594
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,720
is and I see it where it is.
There's so much great young

595
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,400
talent out there.
I'm I'm too tired to design

596
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:09,040
anymore like these, these ideas.
I I spent a ton of years and a

597
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:15,120
pretty sizable body of work that
I was very creative and to these

598
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,280
days I still have a lot of that,
just like a Mark Brickman and

599
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,800
just like a Jim Lenahan that are
extreme talents.

600
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,800
They're, you know, we all get to
this point, though, where it's

601
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,120
like it gets tiring to continue
to come up with these ideas.

602
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,239
I don't know if you follow Jim
at all these days.

603
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,440
No, but Jim's in this AI world
where every day he's putting a

604
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,120
new AI concept out on the world.
Yeah, he's retired.

605
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:39,719
Oh yeah.
Just follow him.

606
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,040
You look at his work.
You want to interview somebody,

607
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,600
interview Jim Lenahan.
I've.

608
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,159
Been dying to interview Jim
Lenahan but I don't have any

609
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:48,880
contact information for.
Him anymore?

610
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,440
Happy to put you in touch
please.

611
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,159
Connect.
Us, you know, I especially AI.

612
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:57,320
Because if if you've heard any
of my last probably 20 podcasts,

613
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:03,720
the intro half the intro is is
on AII follow AI so closely and

614
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:08,240
I'm really deeply into it.
But I'm so that's another

615
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:10,640
subject.
Like I'm so afraid of AI too.

616
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,520
Yeah.
It's just like, listen, Napster

617
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,640
took my business away from me
when it was music videos.

618
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,240
It stripped out it.
It's literally stripped budgets

619
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,880
out from what I was doing.
And I was doing that mega music

620
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,400
videos, yeah, where they were
all $1,000,000 music videos.

621
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,240
I was doing the top three
directors, all their music

622
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,160
videos, all the big lighting
gigs.

623
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,960
They were coming to me.
Napster came out, stripped all

624
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,040
that money out from the record
markets.

625
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,560
That's true.
YouTube came out and every kid

626
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,360
with a camera and everybody with
a freaking microphone is either

627
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,920
a producer and a director and it
took the quality out of it as

628
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,640
far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, it's progress.

629
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:53,200
It's progress my ass.
The end of the day goes 35mm.

630
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,760
Then there's HTHDI.
Would prefer to see a 35mm

631
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,400
cinema scope Mute movie and I
would a high end HD movie.

632
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,640
That's all video volume.
OK, I said this.

633
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,720
I've been very vocal about this
back in the mid, you know, 2010

634
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,680
that I hated wiggly lights.
Why?

635
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,280
Because everybody just puts it
on an effects button and they

636
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,040
wiggle like shit.
Yeah, the end of the day, that's

637
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,440
not busking.
That's that's a cheap way out.

638
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,680
That's not you know that there's
there's a designer and then

639
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,480
there's a programmer and then
there's, you know, there's the

640
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,040
other right.
And I like when I'm working with

641
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520
a Michael Cole team, that's the
same thing.

642
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,480
There's a quality within that
these days within all the market

643
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,600
that we're seeing.
And we're I'm kind of getting

644
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,360
away from AI because that's a
subject.

645
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,400
There's just a litter of new
talent coming up that you you

646
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,720
got to rise to the top.
And then, you know, there's a

647
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,240
level up here and then there's a
level down there and it's an A

648
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,800
movie or a a production or AB
movie and AB production.

649
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,240
And there's just so much of that
that all this progress has

650
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,440
polluted the market and the
there's a lot of people that

651
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,360
have to fight their way to get
through and then the cream will

652
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,960
rise to the top, right.
And you see that in some very

653
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,040
talented.
It's, it's getting worse and

654
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,600
worse and worse too.
You know it.

655
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,960
It's like.
But but AI is blindfolded us to

656
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,480
that.
Yeah.

657
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,440
It's like, it's like it's a
cheap way out.

658
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,920
And and I'm I'm concerned with
it that it's like that.

659
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,200
It's there's goodness to it and
there's a lot of progress.

660
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,560
It's going to be amazing to it,
but then it's going to take a

661
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,520
lot of jobs away.
Well, I'm not as worried about

662
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,280
the jobs because I think that
all just works itself out.

663
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,960
You know it just because half
the people are going to become

664
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,680
more productive by it and the
other half of the people are

665
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,480
going to become, you know, not
necessary.

666
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,840
But you know, I I had a really
good conversation with Glenn

667
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,560
Rogeman, who's the CEO and
founder of AEDI don't know if

668
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,720
you know who they.
Are in Europe.

669
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,280
Yeah.
And so, yeah, well, and he

670
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,840
bought a a movie studio like
years ago and, and it's quite

671
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,240
large now in Belgium.
And so we talked about AI and

672
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,760
what it's doing to movies and
the fact that, you know, who is

673
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,040
it?
Tyler Perry cancelled like a

674
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,600
billion dollar studio that he
was building because of AI.

675
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,120
Like you just said, the future's
gone, you know, for movie

676
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,680
making.
And but Glenn said, here's the

677
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,720
problem with AI in movies.
He said everything is going to

678
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:31,080
get to this level and then it's
going to just sit solid.

679
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,880
Every movie is going to be
exactly this good.

680
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,320
Yeah, but you know, you've
you've seen it already, though,

681
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,880
if you look at it on the the
streaming platforms because of

682
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,720
the pandemic and so on, a lot of
this stuff went there.

683
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,760
I mean, take a look at Netflix
right now.

684
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,080
Yeah, it it's like.
That end it's a recipe.

685
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,640
It's yeah, but it's just like
all the movies are just recycled

686
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,840
BS and yeah.
No, it's a recipe.

687
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,000
It's like the same movie with
different actors in a different

688
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,040
storyline.
But same, although my girlfriend

689
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,360
and I watched Hitman last night
and it wasn't bad it it was

690
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,400
actually kind of.
Interesting.

691
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,440
You know, Fallout's cool,
there's some cool stuff there,

692
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,960
but the big, you know.
Most of it's.

693
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,120
Garbage most of it is just that
low budget stuff now seller

694
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,480
earlier days and yeah it's all
seller appreciate it but without

695
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,360
that independency so that's
independent market right Yeah,

696
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,440
we wouldn't have Conan the
Barbarian, we wouldn't have all

697
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,600
that's.
Totally true, right?

698
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,040
But that was so far back.
You look at that 40 years ago,

699
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,480
right?
So there, there's so much to be

700
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,560
said for it.
I'm just concerned on the

701
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,800
integrity that it's going to
take out from the true artistry,

702
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,560
Yeah.
Well, yeah, but also, you know,

703
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,360
people make big movies because
they are incentivized to do it.

704
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,040
It's not just ego, You know,
like the people putting the

705
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,680
money up and stuff, they're
incentivized.

706
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,000
They're going to get a return on
it.

707
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,720
As that return diminishes, you
know, you, you stop doing it.

708
00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:58,600
And so I think things are going
to become a little bit watered

709
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,520
down perhaps.
Very familiar, you know, lots of

710
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,120
very familiar movies, you know,
things become very similar and

711
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,600
we'll see.
You know, so far I love AI

712
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,400
because it makes my life easier.
It's become my best employee

713
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,880
probably.
But I, I completely get all of

714
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,960
the arguments saying that it's
going to take away artistry and

715
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,880
it's going to destroy jobs.
I completely understand and I

716
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,480
agree with many of those
arguments.

717
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,600
Well, you know, video volume
studios and so on are great.

718
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,080
My son, luckily is.
You know, I got two amazing

719
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,760
boys.
You know, one, just one, went

720
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,960
the path of second generation
Michael Keeling.

721
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,640
Yeah.
And literally he is the senior

722
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,960
engineer at Nat Studios for
systems.

723
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,800
Yeah.
So he's like on another planet

724
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,440
is where it's where I used to
be, that man, I started out

725
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,560
master electrician, right?
And literally got into it and

726
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,680
did all of that work.
Well, he he became my master

727
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,040
electrician about 12 years ago
on a few projects.

728
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,760
Then he was my production
coordinator behind the office on

729
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,560
a lot of my stuff for me too.
And then I kicked him out and

730
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,240
said go get on your own.
And he basically just

731
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,840
flourished.
Then my other son Luke Lucas

732
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,440
just blows me away.
I I don't know if you guys

733
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,280
anybody knows.
My ex-wife killed herself six

734
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,400
years ago and I left my son.
Yeah, I left my sons without a

735
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,080
mother and.
I didn't know that, yeah.

736
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:33,680
Yeah, it was rough.
I.

737
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,120
Don't think you've ever told me
that.

738
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,320
Yeah, this is terrible.
My first wife, Candace, which

739
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,160
God bless her soul, she was
very, it was alcohol, man.

740
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,000
Alcohol, you know, killed my
life too.

741
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,360
Yeah and everything since I've
been fortunate five and a half,

742
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,240
five, 5.9 months now to be
alcohol free and my life's

743
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:57,240
changed.
So Lucas both of my sons has

744
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:02,080
survived that mentality of all
the bullshit that mom and dad

745
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,480
put her them through when I was
touring, I missed nine of my

746
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,160
son's birthdays touring.
Yeah.

747
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:11,200
So through that collective and
then the break up in this this

748
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:15,360
just pollution that we put to
these kids in reference to what

749
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,240
they had to deal with.
I'm so fortunate that both of

750
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:21,920
them have survived mentally,
physically.

751
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:27,440
Lucas, 18, joins the Army does
his stretch comes out puts seven

752
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:33,080
years into getting his master's
program just got his master's at

753
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:41,080
CSUN, got two offers Purdue and
AL Arizona University of Arizona

754
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,680
and as a he's going for his PhD
in English and literally

755
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,120
accepted University of Arizona
absolutely blows me away.

756
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,520
Yeah, that these two young men
are where they are and it just

757
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,360
shows you the tenacity that you
can do so Lucas just wanted to

758
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,920
go full right of what dad's
business was, wants to be a

759
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,200
writer and an educator.
And I'm just so freaking proud

760
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,880
of them both on.
I tracked what you've got going

761
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,120
on with your son and his passion
of racing blows me away.

762
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,680
And I I've always told them be a
man of character.

763
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,960
Own if it's your fault, own it.
And at the end of the day, treat

764
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,400
people how you want to be
treated.

765
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,160
Grab your passion.
This is what a lot of the young

766
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,320
people ask me these days.
How did you get into it?

767
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,520
Into it, man, I got lucky, but I
put a lot of hard.

768
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,240
Work your ass off.
Yeah, luck just opened the.

769
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:41,080
Door I didn't graduate high
school at 15 1/2.

770
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,360
I was smoking pot with a good
friend of mine getting high and

771
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,040
he goes, you want to go to work
tomorrow.

772
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,680
And I basically said sure
because I hate school and at the

773
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,000
end of day, you know, I just, I
walked on a set with Bob Hope

774
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,720
the next day and I just went
like boom, there you go. 3 weeks

775
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:01,480
later, my best friend, I get him
a job there, Carlos Sandoval at

776
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,560
ACDC equipment company.
I know he's still working at

777
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,080
ACDC company 48 years later
that.

778
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:09,160
Is.
Wild.

779
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:10,000
OK.
Crazy.

780
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,720
So nuts.
That's a whole.

781
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,400
Yeah, we've talked about that
earlier on, but yeah, family is

782
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,800
everything, right?
And Craig's family, I don't know

783
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,720
what his son's doing and so on,
but I hope that, you know, he's

784
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,600
been able to pave the way for
that family and, and they can

785
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,720
carry his name on.
And your son.

786
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,720
I'm I'm looking forward to
seeing him give Sebastian a kick

787
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,600
in the ass at some point.
We'll see.

788
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:34,560
That's such a money driven
business.

789
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,360
It's, you know, I don't have the
money that most of the

790
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,600
competitors do out there and,
and unfortunately that will keep

791
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,920
him from the top.
Yeah, but hopefully the driving

792
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,880
speaks for itself too.
Yeah, Kyle, you look at Kyle

793
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,120
Larson and so on, who started in
dirt.

794
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,760
Tracking though, there's so few
for every for every 10

795
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,240
billionaire family drivers that
are out there, there's 1/2 of a

796
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,760
a real driver.
So yeah, yeah.

797
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,480
I mean, I'm not bitter about it
or anything.

798
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,160
It's just, it's hard when you've
invested, you know, 14 years and

799
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,880
however much money of your life
into something and you start

800
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,520
going, wait a SEC, there's a
real ceiling here unless you got

801
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,080
like, listen.
I've got because.

802
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,200
People are going into IndyCar
with, with, you know, 10,000,012

803
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,320
million for two seasons, you
know.

804
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:22,720
I mean, I've got the same thing
that goes on in the this

805
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,720
industry, you know, because of
my relationships in this

806
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:29,400
industry, I've got other
relationships with young talent

807
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,240
that are singers and family and
so on that want and they've

808
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,480
asked me to manage them and so
on and before And I've managed

809
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,080
multi my life and I've done
that.

810
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,320
And I go these days, I don't
even want to get into it to

811
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,840
break an artist cause I've been
there and I've failed, you know,

812
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,160
three times with artists trying
to break them and it's like I've

813
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,920
signed them to deals and so on.
And it's still a struggle.

814
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,000
I've got a major talent in
Nashville, which is one of the

815
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,520
reasons why I was there.
His name is Troy Doherty.

816
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,960
You ever?
Get listen to his stuff, you

817
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,120
send me some links.
His locals are amazing, the

818
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,000
persona is there, but it's being
at the right place on the right

819
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,120
time.
You know, getting the viral

820
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,600
TikTok video, he's all over or
whatever.

821
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,880
Plus, I mean, he, he's a little
prankster too.

822
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,560
Started Broadway da da da da.
He was an actor, moved into it,

823
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,720
amazing young talent.
But these guys just they, it's,

824
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,920
you know, I basically say, hey,
if you've got $1,000,000, we can

825
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,640
break it because at the end of
the day, you got to buy on.

826
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,680
Right, you got to buy.
On these packages, because

827
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,040
either that or you can try to do
it organically and when they try

828
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,280
to do it organically, five years
go by, you're no longer at that

829
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,600
age that, you know, you're
really being sought after and

830
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,400
all that kind of stuff, but.
I remember back in the 80s when

831
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,440
pay to play meant like, you're
selling tickets for the

832
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,680
Troubadour or whiskey or
whatever for your gig, Right,

833
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,120
Yeah.
Yeah, I had to buy the 1st 30

834
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,560
tickets every time I did the
Viper Room or the Run or Drive

835
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,920
with a band still standing.
It's like I would just buy the

836
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,520
bar, right.
OK.

837
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,200
The bar, I just buy the bar up
to a .500 bucks.

838
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,560
It cost me that and then I would
still have to pay for the the

839
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,480
house.
Yeah, because the bands weren't

840
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,800
as big as you thought.
And you did that circuit.

841
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,720
I did that circuit with three
bands and it's like, whatever.

842
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,840
Yeah, no, I, I did it myself.
I, I was in bands where, you

843
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,920
know, you had to go and sell
tickets to make it work.

844
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,560
Because if you didn't sell
tickets, you know you were, it

845
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,440
was actually literally going to
cost you a couple grand to pay

846
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,040
the to play the gig.
So it was crazy.

847
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,160
So.
Good conversation.

848
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,960
What's going on?
We were talking about, we were

849
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,680
talking about and I can never
remember the four letters S.

850
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,680
To the NS, to the N entertain.
Right, right.

851
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,960
Of course.
And so the the thing that I

852
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,320
worked with you on the exhibit
thing that I helped you get rid

853
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,200
of some stuff from, what was
that?

854
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,200
Well, it, it's, I mean, again,
it's something I really can't

855
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,200
talk about as well.
One of the packages that you,

856
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,720
you know, it's a risk reward
industry.

857
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,360
Yeah.
Sometimes they hit, sometimes

858
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,960
they don't.
These investors go a long way on

859
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,640
these packages.
Imagine Van Gogh was one of

860
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,280
ours.
Van Gogh was another one.

861
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,960
So then we, you know, the
company that you produced, you

862
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,120
know, imagine, man, go imagine
Picasso and imagine Frida.

863
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,400
Then you know, then they've got
part of some of the Marvel stuff

864
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,320
and some of the cool stuff
coming up, some other very big

865
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,120
stuff coming up that the
contracts aren't 100%.

866
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,320
What we've, what we've been
looking at over the last few

867
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,000
years is really trying to find
locations.

868
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,560
One in New York, I just produced
a front end of a big show last

869
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,520
year called Balloon Museum, and
we went to Basketball City and

870
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,760
at the last minute we pulled out
of it because, you know, it

871
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,360
would just some dealings weren't
happening and and it just wasn't

872
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,120
the right thing.
So eight months on that project

873
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,800
got them their TPA, you know,
permit of occupancy insurance

874
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,520
and all that stuff.
And at the last minute we pulled

875
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,080
out.
So these things happen.

876
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,640
Yeah, and then goes tell.
Me though, like these are

877
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,160
different than regular tours,
right?

878
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,600
Like you're not going venue to
venue to.

879
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,120
Venue no yeah, location based
entertainment, right LBE

880
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,720
location based entertainment and
that that buzzword immersive

881
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,720
right right.
So we you know the the company

882
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,800
has a few of the Harry Potter
Forbidden Forest Co promoters.

883
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,080
You know, we're we're we're a
company that Co promotes or

884
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,120
promotes and then produces,
right.

885
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,000
So there's different entities.
You're either a promoter on one

886
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,440
or you're the promoter producer.
When they end up doing the

887
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,280
producing side of it, then they
bring in talent like myself as

888
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,320
project managers.
Me, I'm the senior producer.

889
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,920
So and that's more because of my
age and and the of the of the

890
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,520
resume that I have.
Yeah.

891
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,120
So at the end of the day, you
know, that relationship between

892
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,560
myself and Jacob, there's a lot
of times he pulls on me and he

893
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,120
goes, hey, I need a production
manager or I need this, or I

894
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,640
need a design team, or I need
you to do the whole, you know, I

895
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,200
need you to give me ideas of
design teams for this or that,

896
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,960
you know.
And then, then we have a concept

897
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,760
like, you know, Hot Wheels wants
to go out and they want to do a

898
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,600
touring exhibition of Hot
Wheels, the history of and we

899
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,880
put that idea together.
That's one that didn't hit, you

900
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,560
know, but we just got a slate of
projects we look at every year

901
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,880
and what's coming up.
Then we target them and we look

902
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:29,720
at what is tracking, you know,
when we do concepts, you know,

903
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:32,840
we competed with like Stranger
Things a couple years ago on how

904
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,800
hot that hit.
And then you try to grab on

905
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,560
something like that as a
promoter that is gonna sell

906
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:39,320
tickets.
Yeah.

907
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,640
Yeah.
Well, we try to.

908
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:47,840
We try to develop our own IP at
times, you know, And Jacob, you

909
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,680
know, I don't want to speak for
him, but he's a documentarian

910
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,280
from way back.
I mean he travelled with his dad

911
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:59,160
on many, many plane rides and
did every show on the Bowie tour

912
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,560
that you can imagine at The Age.
Of the cool upbringing that'd

913
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,480
be.
I mean, listen, Pink Floyd, he

914
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,600
was not, you know, he may have
been 1215 years old and all that

915
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,000
stuff.
To be in that same room and to

916
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,640
be a family on the wall would
have been amazing.

917
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,760
Yeah.
But again, I just, I, I look at

918
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,840
Jacob, who wasn't, he was
trained by his father and he

919
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,560
obviously went and he was
schooled.

920
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:27,320
He's French Canadian as well.
And extremely, you know, smart

921
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:32,000
young man that just knows
marketing, ticket sales and

922
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,200
everything.
You can hear in his voice and

923
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,800
see it on paper what he has
absorbed from his father's

924
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,080
tutoring over a a plethora of
years.

925
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,880
Right, that's in his DNA.
It's it's DNA at that point.

926
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,760
And I just sit there and I go,
wow.

927
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,080
And I'm always wowed when we get
together, when we talk.

928
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,720
And it's just so super casual.
And I love the fact that there's

929
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:58,200
no egos there.
Yeah.

930
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,120
You know, it's just like, hey,
let's get what can we do?

931
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,840
Is it a sensible ROI?
What's the investment?

932
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,800
Where's the capital?
What's it gonna take to produce?

933
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:12,320
And these days, you know, trying
to get produced these projects,

934
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,960
they're the after post pandemic
cost of, of producing these

935
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,960
projects are just crazy.
What what we projected early out

936
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,480
of the pandemic to produce a
show in New York was plus, you

937
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,400
know, plus 3540%, right,
everybody, the cost of a

938
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,680
technical director that used to
be $800 is $1500 a day.

939
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,280
And we kind of giggle at it,
right?

940
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,360
Yeah.
Just go, dude, if you know

941
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,440
Michael Keeling, you know, we're
not paying that.

942
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,400
So at the end of the day, you
know, I'll get around it and

943
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,680
I'll go technical produce it
myself if I have to, right, To

944
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,000
get a project off the ground.
Yeah.

945
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,280
So if not, we'll find some
extremely talented people for

946
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,920
that area of talent.
Now that's not saying that

947
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,600
they're not worth it because of
the cost of living has gone up

948
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,120
and so on, but we just can't pay
those kind of prices and still

949
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,320
be profitable in this.
Business, I mean the economy of

950
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:10,680
the of the job can't afford it.
It's just look at the Otani

951
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,640
factor at Dodger Stadium now,
right?

952
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,920
The cost has to go up.
I I can't even like I used to go

953
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,320
to 10 games a year and I'm I'm
the biggest Otani fan there is

954
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,240
Dodgers.
Hey go, you know, in the day.

955
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,200
The fact that you get people
like him, Freddie, Mookie and so

956
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,560
on on a team, the cost of a
ticket goes up.

957
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,720
The cost of a beer is $16.00 for
a beer.

958
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,800
I don't drink beer anymore so.
In Miami, when we got messy, the

959
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,400
tickets for Inter Miami went
from $40 to 400.

960
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,480
Insane, right?
So the same thing happened on

961
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,200
the other side when it comes to
these packages, right?

962
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,080
So every time we do it, it's
like, all right, what do you do

963
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,560
with these packages?
You know, is it a, is it, will

964
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,400
it sustain a union market or
will it sustain and is it an

965
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,040
independent market?
So there's a lot of factors and

966
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,160
you want to give the Union
brothers their love at the end

967
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,240
of the day.
As a producer, sometimes you got

968
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:07,160
to go in with brass knuckles and
and you got to bust some deals

969
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,720
up and you know me.
So the end of the day I've got

970
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:11,600
no problems with cracking a few
eggs.

971
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,000
No, I think you're, I think
you're well suited to the role,

972
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,960
put it that way.
Been been lucky and but then

973
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,520
again, you got to walk with
delicacy.

974
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,400
You know, there's times where
I've been accused of not doing

975
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,680
that and there's times where
it's like you got to be the

976
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,560
adult in the room.
You got to be able to take

977
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,400
chances and I mean.
Diplomacy only goes so far.

978
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,880
You know that when the Italians
last year, I took the room twice

979
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,120
and diplomacy only went so far.
Yeah, it's like you so can you

980
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,920
can only teach people how?
You can only consult the people

981
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,680
and try to teach them how to do
things in America.

982
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,480
Yeah, one way.
And if they're not gonna do it

983
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,640
and it costs more money, then
you have to evaluate it.

984
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,520
And yeah, then you gotta, you
know, figure out what.

985
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,640
You know the project.
So you're basically captive by

986
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,360
these guys now, right?
Like you, you're not doing 20

987
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,720
other jobs or anything.
I'm always juggling, bro.

988
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:07,320
It's like I'm on a, I'm on a
retained period with them and

989
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,960
I'm very fortunate.
But I'm, I'm pretty much, you

990
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,400
know, I was full time for two
years and then my, the slates

991
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,280
cleaned up a little bit.
We've got a couple big projects

992
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,360
that we're on.
So now I've basically gone to a

993
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,880
50% time framework now that
they're my first right of

994
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,920
refusal on anything.
And you know, that's a good

995
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,560
thing to have.
But then I've got IPS that I'm

996
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,720
developing, a concept called
Country Strong.

997
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,480
I've got, you know, another
Bowie concept that's I've been

998
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,480
working on.
I'm partnering with another

999
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,560
gentleman that I'll have some
news out in probably about three

1000
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,480
weeks that ultimately he's a
strong technical and creative in

1001
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,560
his own right.
And I may come back into the

1002
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,120
creative market a little bit
because, you know, I, I want to

1003
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,200
manicure what it is that we do.
Although I, you know, my ideas

1004
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,880
have always been a bit grandiose
and I like big scale.

1005
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,800
If you see the lighting jobs
that I've done, Coldplay, speed

1006
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,280
of sound that started out.
We're not the director, Mike.

1007
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,960
We're not going to do this like
Lenny Kravitz because he was the

1008
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,680
director on Lenny.
Yeah.

1009
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,040
And he goes, I don't want this
to be another Lenny of all

1010
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,960
lights.
And then I go, great, Mark, let

1011
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,360
me just show you this cool
product.

1012
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,920
Boom.
And that was, that was like 6

1013
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,720
months before the Versatube even
came to the market.

1014
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,280
He said here's this product.
And he goes, oh shit.

1015
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,440
And then he goes, wow, this is
cool.

1016
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,440
Next thing you know, he shows it
to the band.

1017
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:37,480
He goes, OK, I want you to do a
we're taking the biggest stage

1018
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,800
in Sony.
They they, they did it on

1019
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,720
Wizard.
They shot Wizard of Oz there.

1020
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,480
And I want you to do this giant
cyclorama of these lights.

1021
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,000
Well, I ended up purchasing
because the band wouldn't buy

1022
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,280
them the first LED at that time,
creative LED that was ever on

1023
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,440
the entertainment market.
I bought and brought it to the

1024
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,000
United States and put it on
film.

1025
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,120
I had used it on one music video
prior to that with Audioslave

1026
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,440
where I think I had 36 tubes and
I made some picture frames.

1027
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,880
The Coldplay ended up being
right at about 1000 tubes that I

1028
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:09,920
ended up purchasing.
I forgot.

1029
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,040
You did that like that.
That was that was such an iconic

1030
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,160
video.
You know, it was just so cool.

1031
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,120
That was duh, duh, duh, duh.
Duh, duh.

1032
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,320
Speed of sound bro.
Speed of sound, Yeah.

1033
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,000
Speed of sound, right?
Very lucky.

1034
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:29,040
So when we say that, you know,
when I look at, you know, 1993

1035
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,520
Lenny Kravitz, you're gonna go
my way.

1036
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,120
I was right on the cuss.
Another iconic video.

1037
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:35,320
Yeah, I was right on.
The Cuss.

1038
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,840
But this is when I was, I was
pretty tight with Mark Brickman

1039
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:43,680
and we had just started him
Another Gentleman.

1040
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,600
They started Propaganda Live.
So Propaganda films.

1041
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,960
I had worked with Propaganda
Films prior to that on multiple

1042
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,440
campaigns, Coca-Cola
commercials, where I first met

1043
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,640
Michael Keller, I think way back
in the day doing some kids, New

1044
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:03,120
Kids on the Block stuff.
Well, we had started a vision

1045
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,720
called Propaganda Live from
Propaganda Films because they

1046
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:11,360
needed a company that could do
these big concerts within the

1047
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,320
film industry.
At that point they didn't have

1048
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,240
that.
So Marks worked on the side

1049
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,760
there.
I ended up getting a call to the

1050
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,360
left of that from one of the
producers and said, and this is

1051
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,800
when I was AVP of sales at Obi's
and said we want you to design.

1052
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,840
And it's weird because I was
actually in New York on a

1053
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,080
Michael Bolton.
Michael Bolton was our one of

1054
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,480
our biggest clients at the time.
I was at his birthday party and

1055
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,720
I get this call and then they
FedEx me a a cassette and I

1056
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,920
still have the cassette.
I want you to listen to this

1057
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,120
song because we want you to
design this thing for Lenny

1058
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,600
Kravitz.
And I went, love the artist, put

1059
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:52,480
the song in first 30 seconds.
I basically had the vision.

1060
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,720
I went, Oh my God, this song is
like on fire.

1061
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,840
I've got it because it was a
predecessor.

1062
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,320
It was predecessor to me.
Hey, we want you to basically we

1063
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,000
want to do something like you're
pulling up in a foyer of a Las

1064
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:10,000
Vegas canopy of lights and I
went boom, get it, got the idea.

1065
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,600
Took me 3 weeks to find a nine
inch refrigerator light bulb

1066
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,360
that was incandescent.
So when when I actually did zero

1067
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:20,720
to 10 on the console, it gave it
that love and intensity.

1068
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,000
So I can paint different
pictures of light wood.

1069
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,200
And people didn't know me for
that.

1070
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,360
Yeah, they just knew me as a
sales guy at that point.

1071
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,200
But they didn't know prior to
that that I was like, I designed

1072
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,040
Zappa in 87 and then I did these
other things.

1073
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,040
But then I came into the office,
so I went from.

1074
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,400
That that so that video was
refrigerator bulbs.

1075
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,280
Yeah, it was refrigerator light
bulbs that I found.

1076
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:50,280
Yep, 9 How many of them?
That was probably like 940, you

1077
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,800
know.
And then at that time I I

1078
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,400
started this out with trying to
do it as cheap as possible.

1079
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,160
I did it with Alderham dimmers
and then, and I mean, that's a

1080
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,040
whole nother story.
And I found this is when I was I

1081
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,400
was trying to find a console
that could actually operate.

1082
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,480
That many channels, Yeah,
because there were only 40 Watt

1083
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:15,240
bulbs and I had to put them on
2.4 dimmers, so I had to have

1084
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,520
900 plus dimmers there.
Oh Jesus.

1085
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,320
So advance forward to 2000.
I did.

1086
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:22,800
You needed to control every one
of them.

1087
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,320
Oh yeah, dude, that was me.
Come on.

1088
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,760
Yeah, everything like.
Did you really need individual

1089
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,160
control over everyone?
We, I think we ended up putting

1090
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,360
them two bulbs on one circuit so
they would mirror each other.

1091
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,360
Okay.
And so I found, I found somebody

1092
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,800
introduced me to this young lad
that had this console called the

1093
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,120
Whole Hog.
Yeah.

1094
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,440
And the guy behind it was Nils
Thornton.

1095
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,880
A weird little Scandinavian day.
Real, real weird.

1096
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,000
Cat, right.
So I mean, I was like, all

1097
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,800
right, and back in the day, come
on, I was a roadie and that was

1098
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,200
pretty rough.
And it was pretty

1099
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,520
straightforward.
It's like, just fucking get it

1100
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,200
done.
That that's what's so weird

1101
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:03,160
about Nils is he's comes walking
into our industry and he's this

1102
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,920
goofy little Scandinavian dude,
greatest guy in the world.

1103
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,720
I love Nils but he he comes from
a very different background.

1104
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,200
Different world, man, but very
different world.

1105
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,120
The two biggest music videos I
ever did.

1106
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,280
Lenny Kravitz, you gonna go on
my way?

1107
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,040
Coldplay, Speed of sound, Common
denominator.

1108
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,240
Nils Thornton.
OK, Element Labs.

1109
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,600
The big part of that.
Yeah.

1110
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,040
So Nils.
Nils is pretty solid.

1111
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,680
I mean, Nils, was he and Bill
Logical were my programmers on

1112
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,040
that?
It's a funny thing.

1113
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,400
It's like this big apparatus is
on the ground with these 900

1114
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,560
bulbs and I'm basically have a
napkin and I showed them how I

1115
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,720
want these these these patterns
to look.

1116
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,280
And I go, I want this like blade
of light turning around.

1117
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:51,200
Then I want to do this very
origami type of stuff, but look

1118
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:52,040
at it now.
Boom.

1119
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,120
And then I program it.
They spent all day, all night

1120
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,280
programming the thing.
We raise the thing up in the air

1121
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,200
and I say turn it on.
And the first few that I had, I

1122
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,160
said, OK, now show me the
special guitar solo.

1123
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,800
I want the fan blade coming on.
It was all backwards.

1124
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,000
They had program everything
backwards because they looked at

1125
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,320
it this way and I said, OK, I'm
going to walk away for three

1126
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:13,640
hours and you guys are going to
fix it.

1127
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:14,480
Boom.
Yeah.

1128
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,920
Literally walked away, came
back, looked up, turn the turn

1129
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,960
the lights on, started working
with the programming and I just

1130
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,160
sit there and I went wow, this
is something special and then.

1131
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,240
That's probably when Nils
created the world's first

1132
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,480
effects engine.
He could.

1133
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,680
He could reverse this thing,
spinning it.

1134
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:33,680
I don't know how he didn't have
to.

1135
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,560
Reprogram.
It they had to go back in and

1136
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,600
repatch everything, Yeah.
And it was like.

1137
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,080
It was a ton.
Of stress on that job because

1138
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,960
all the dimmers blew out.
We had to get all brand new,

1139
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,120
ETC.
Dimmer racks in that night.

1140
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:46,920
You know, I worked all night
long.

1141
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,680
I kicked everybody out of the
building.

1142
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,400
They gave me my palette of
macros to work with and then we

1143
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,800
kicked everybody out of the
building at 11:00.

1144
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:59,000
I worked all night long. 7:00 AM
my producer wakes me up in the

1145
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,800
car and I had a 10 minute nap.
We come in, she goes are we OK?

1146
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,520
And I said we'll be fine.
We go in cued 1 show one song up

1147
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,760
or 11 sequence up and I busked
that entire thing out.

1148
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:16,680
I let Bill do the first, first
take on it and I said move over,

1149
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,080
dude, sorry.
And then basically that was all

1150
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,880
me just pushing all those
buttons and I absolutely adored

1151
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,320
it.
And as the day came, went along,

1152
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,360
continuity was out the window
other than I had structure going

1153
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:31,520
on.
But as they went along, I kept

1154
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,920
overlaying stuff and seeing
things happen, come to life that

1155
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:36,840
just don't happen anymore,
hardly.

1156
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,000
Then you Fast forward, you Fast
forward to 2000 and I did Public

1157
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:47,480
Enemy 2000 with P Diddy.
I did that was 3000 light bulbs

1158
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:53,640
2004 I jumped to rock your body
10,000 light bulbs in a room

1159
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:59,480
which then was 32 dimmer racks.
OK, that that was insane It.

1160
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:03,200
Kind of became your thing, huh?
Like lots of little tiny light

1161
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:04,800
sources.
Let's get healing.

1162
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,240
It was it and that was that was
it because that that got me

1163
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,000
campaigns for Sunday Night
Football, ABC Monday Night

1164
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,920
Football I ended up doing.
Well, yeah, the Sunday Night

1165
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,520
Football, that's that look,
right?

1166
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:18,240
That's that same look.
Yeah, Yeah.

1167
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:24,080
But did you ever ask Nils how
many Element Labs Versa tubes

1168
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,080
you sold for his company?
Right, this is.

1169
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:33,440
How many people tried so many
different ways to copy that

1170
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,440
look, you know, I mean.
Bro, still do so you know,

1171
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:39,520
that's that's when, if I would
have had to do it.

1172
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,800
This is what I told my agent at
the time.

1173
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,160
And luckily I had an agent that
was booking a lot of these

1174
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,600
things for me.
And it's like, OK, I'm, I'm in

1175
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:51,280
this project.
How do I get an attorney and

1176
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,240
figure out how I copyright this?
Because it's going to get

1177
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,920
copied, copied when it was the
light bulbs, my attorney

1178
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,800
basically said Edison has the
patent on the light bulb.

1179
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:02,720
You can't copy it.
And I said no, but I can copy

1180
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,120
the sequencing of it.
So all this video content and so

1181
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,680
on that does a lot of that
replication of the looks that

1182
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,800
I've done.
At this point, all I can do is

1183
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:12,960
be flattered by it.
I wish I had a nickel for every

1184
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,000
time I saw it done because that
when I did, I did CBS, Mondo

1185
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,720
campaigns and a big part of all
of this.

1186
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,120
And I can't, I can't go without.
It's not just me as like I

1187
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:24,760
always say, I've got the teams
behind me.

1188
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:28,440
Donald, the Belly.
Martin Phillips was a big part

1189
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:29,440
of that.
Once again.

1190
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,920
Martin Phillips, a great
designer in his own right,

1191
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,120
started out as a board
programmer.

1192
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,400
Yeah, so he was.
He was my guy on Rock Your Body.

1193
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,360
We literally were the first time
we broke ground.

1194
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:49,680
We had five walls of lights,
which needed five whole hog PCU

1195
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:54,400
units that talk to each other to
do the programming behind that.

1196
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,760
Unfortunately, we went very
overtime on the budget side of

1197
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,840
it because of some lingo and so
on.

1198
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,560
But Martin pulled that together
for me and then on.

1199
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:10,000
I used Martin on at that point
on Coldplay Speed of Sound, he

1200
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,080
and Velo Verkhaus.
I had Velo came to me as an

1201
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,680
animator and I did real time
animation on set while I was

1202
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,440
programming and we did split
Sims audio stuff.

1203
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:27,760
So you when you see that video,
you'll see Chris singing the the

1204
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,880
harmonies in the choruses and
that's actual live activation of

1205
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,960
his vocals picking up there.
So he did that and that was a

1206
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:39,160
challenge by Mark, Mark Romanik,
the director, and asked me if I

1207
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:41,480
can pull that off.
And I went, dude, anything's

1208
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:42,680
possible, just give me more
money.

1209
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,600
We did, we did that shit within
48 hours, we were on set

1210
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:52,040
shooting that stuff, right?
And that was, that was just one

1211
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,000
of those projects.
So when I did Lenny, I realized

1212
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,480
that was special.
When I did Rock Your Body, I

1213
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,240
realized how special that was
when I did.

1214
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,440
That's another cool.
Video play.

1215
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,560
I realized how special that was,
and then I've just been very,

1216
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,160
very fortunate with the.
Yeah, you had a really good run

1217
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:10,320
there.
Those those, you know, I mean,

1218
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,560
those are big videos.
Really big.

1219
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:17,080
Yeah, I mean, I've been, I've
been, I don't know, I've

1220
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,280
probably done 60 to 80 to 100
music videos, ton of them.

1221
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,360
I forgot a lot of them.
You know, there's some.

1222
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,280
Then I started getting bored.
You know, it's like lighting.

1223
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,520
And basically I was working with
great set designers that were

1224
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:32,880
taking credit for my work,
right.

1225
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,920
And at the end day, that's when
ego got in the way.

1226
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,640
And literally I started
production designing music

1227
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:42,800
videos and then literally every,
I wouldn't take a job unless I

1228
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,880
was production designing it.
I wouldn't take a job in touring

1229
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,280
unless I was a show director or
production designing it.

1230
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,000
And there was that period of
time where everybody wanted it.

1231
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,600
You know, that Lenny Kravitz
look, Mark and Luke and I did

1232
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,560
the Dixie Chicks in 2000.
What do they want?

1233
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,120
Lenny Kravitz canopy, right?
So it was like, oh really?

1234
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:03,600
How many times can I see that
happen, right?

1235
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,800
I'm freaking bored so.
Well, that's like Brickman

1236
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,920
putting the, you know, the
circle of VLVL, whatever those

1237
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:13,840
were.
Yep, fours, weren't they?

1238
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:15,760
Were they fours?
Oh gosh, I can't even remember

1239
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,840
what they were at that time.
I think there were twos.

1240
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:19,680
I think they were two.
They might have been twos.

1241
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,359
Yeah, actually, they might have
been.

1242
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:23,359
Two ones for sure.
I think there were twos at that

1243
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:25,000
time, yeah.
VL fives.

1244
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,640
Weren't they the fives?
No, no they weren't.

1245
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,399
I don't think they were fives.
I thought they were Fives and

1246
01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:30,960
Brickman.
Correctly of all time.

1247
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,399
What the VL five Oh my God, so
good, so good.

1248
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:39,399
And there's, you know, there's
some nice new little, like, have

1249
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:42,760
you seen the Mac one?
That thing is so cool.

1250
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,840
I mean, it looks a little VL
5:00-ish.

1251
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,359
Not not even close really.
But it weighs like, I don't

1252
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:55,439
know, 10 or 11 lbs and is pretty
bright and is fast and tiny.

1253
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:57,720
Like it's this big, you know,
it's tiny.

1254
01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,359
I'm.
Still, listen, I'm still a

1255
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,319
traditionalist.
I like the effect of

1256
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,880
sustainability and that's a
whole other thing we can talk

1257
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:06,960
about because I'm a
sustainability freak.

1258
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:12,520
I love the idea of LED in on a
wall.

1259
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:16,760
I don't like looking at non
hegemonized LED.

1260
01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:20,040
Yeah, I hate it.
I think it's tacky.

1261
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,000
Once again, I'm a traditional.
You don't like dots.

1262
01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:25,920
You don't like the dots and.
If you, if you know me, I, I

1263
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,359
work from sketches to, you know,
to renderings.

1264
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:34,800
I started out that way.
I, I work in capture.

1265
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,760
I work in all these programs
these days.

1266
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:40,000
But I, I, I'm a traditionalist
and I start, I, I've got that,

1267
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:42,319
you know, I worked with Brickman
on sketches.

1268
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:44,359
I've worked with a lot of
artists on sketches.

1269
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:48,720
I worked with, I've seen the
Jeremy Railton massive looks

1270
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,080
that are real talent drawings.
Yeah.

1271
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,120
And so I'm a very big
traditional on art and my

1272
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,680
relationship with Luke.
When I see an LED, I see the

1273
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:00,400
functionality of it, but it
still does not give me the love

1274
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,160
that an incandescent does.
Doesn't give you that warmth.

1275
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:08,880
It doesn't give you that emotion
that an LED does in color and or

1276
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,000
in dim ratios.
But there's an effective use to

1277
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,280
it.
And unfortunately these days,

1278
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:17,440
it's it's just obliteration of
light.

1279
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:21,560
It's like, yeah, it really is.
And there's a lot of talent out

1280
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,640
there.
I see, you know, I see a lot of

1281
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,680
my friends out there.
And it's just like obliteration

1282
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:28,360
of lights in your eyes.
And I go.

1283
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:34,760
How many fixtures can we fit I.
You know, you know, that is one

1284
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,480
of my biggest complaints from
Aerosmith 2007.

1285
01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:42,280
I had 16 Truck Tour and there
weren't enough lights.

1286
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:44,720
Yeah.
And when I left the tour, they

1287
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,360
added another truck of lights
and it's like, OK, who?

1288
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:49,480
Yeah.
Who chose this?

1289
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:51,360
Well, the wives.
It's like, all right.

1290
01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:55,800
Whatever, that's funny.
That's funny, you know, but like

1291
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,640
when you think back because when
I started working with you, I

1292
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:04,880
know you were really big on
telescans and that was like the

1293
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:08,320
Mack daddy of of lights like.
Analog mirror, bro.

1294
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:09,960
Analog mirror.
Beast of lights.

1295
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:15,640
But The thing is when you look
at how relatively dim it is now

1296
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,200
compared to LED fixtures that
are out there, you know, like

1297
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,600
the elation Proteus, I don't
even know what their brightest

1298
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:26,680
ones are called anymore, Atlas
or Brutus or they're they're.

1299
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,960
Just whatever their their in
them are phenomenal.

1300
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,960
Crazy bright, crazy bright.
How?

1301
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,760
How bright can do you need it to
be you know well.

1302
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,360
This is a this is a question
right?

1303
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:39,440
And this.
Camera.

1304
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,520
Yeah, for camera, you don't need
it that bright.

1305
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,520
There's there's been a whole
different thinking on the camera

1306
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,920
back in the day when we were,
you know, when we were shooting

1307
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,960
you could you have to your DP
told you this is what it needed

1308
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:53,720
to be.
Yeah.

1309
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:58,080
And anything over that blew out
the the the iris is this one

1310
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,120
these days, people are liking
that effect now, right?

1311
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:02,920
Yeah.
And you, you, everything looks

1312
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,520
like an 80s video tube camera.
Yeah.

1313
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,880
And it's just overblown and over
contrasted or there's just lack

1314
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,160
of education in the true
cinematography behind.

1315
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,360
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah.

1316
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,600
I, I had that conversation,
though, as far as like, does

1317
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:18,840
everything need to be that
bright?

1318
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,280
I had that conversation with
Robert Roth one time on the

1319
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,800
podcast and he said, you know,
everybody thinks that every

1320
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:30,320
light needs to be 50 bazillion
lumens and it doesn't.

1321
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,000
Like how about a nice, you know,
a replacement to the old like

1322
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:39,000
700 Watt lamps or whatever, like
the mid size moving light.

1323
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,080
And now I think there's a lot
more of that stuff.

1324
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,320
Like all of the companies sort
of have a much fuller range now

1325
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,160
where you've got the littler
ones, you've got the medium ones

1326
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,760
and you've got the big tough
guys, right?

1327
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,760
Well, that market's the, that
market's the theater and the

1328
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,520
opera and the Broadway market,
right?

1329
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,520
Which, yeah, that that's whole
nother talent, you know, the and

1330
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:03,200
Natasha Katz, the Jules Fishers
and those people, they again,

1331
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:08,400
they they swim that path to me
of design that is just a beauty

1332
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:10,600
in its own right.
When you get a chance to see

1333
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:15,600
some of their work and how
isolated, you know, a spot can

1334
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:17,280
be.
Because to me, the you know,

1335
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,600
somebody asked me what were my
favorite colors were and I said

1336
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,760
black and white.
Yeah, those are my favorite

1337
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,600
colors for designer.
That's what you work with.

1338
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,240
After that, you know, you have
black void, you create white

1339
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,960
light.
The best look is Sinatra

1340
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,280
spotlight or a Michael Jackson
spotlight.

1341
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,320
You know, I look at it and I see
in my mind right now, Michael

1342
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,360
hat tilted down, silhouette
bang.

1343
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:37,880
See you.
Right.

1344
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,800
That's one of the most poignant
looks there is.

1345
01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:43,680
He's the king of that Mister
Peter Morris.

1346
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:45,560
Hello.
Yeah, right.

1347
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,680
Yeah, that's so true.
That's so true.

1348
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,120
You know, I, I was reading over
a bunch of notes when I was

1349
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:56,320
getting ready to do this and I
forgot so many of the things

1350
01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:01,520
that you did, like Don Kirschner
and Soul Train and, you know, I

1351
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:06,200
just crazy stuff from like back
in the really early days of all

1352
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,800
of this stuff.
Blows me away man how lucky I

1353
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,440
was.
So again early start at 15 I met

1354
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,480
15 1/2.
At that time, I drove a 5 ton

1355
01:14:16,480 --> 01:14:18,800
truck to Vegas for Circus of the
Stars.

1356
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:20,360
Yeah.
Didn't even have my driver's

1357
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,960
license.
Oh my God, My boss says go

1358
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,400
Carlos and I Carlos had a
license. him and I went to

1359
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:27,480
Vegas.
One of the first travel shows we

1360
01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:32,000
did, I ended up doing spotlights
at that 'cause we had, we had

1361
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,320
ACDC equipment company pretty
much had the monopoly on CBSNBC

1362
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,560
and so on.
The only competition after that

1363
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:39,720
was Olsen's.
Yeah.

1364
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:40,840
Right.
Yeah, well.

1365
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,440
We had the biggest line of
spotlights.

1366
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:48,800
So I think I had 16 Super
Troopers, trooper rats, colored

1367
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:54,640
trans, all these spots that I
became quickly by chance,

1368
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,360
literally I think the first day
on the job, I walked in front of

1369
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:02,320
the camera between Bob Hope and
take and literally it was like

1370
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:06,280
cut and my boss looked at me and
this was of course not that I

1371
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,800
was stoned the night before.
So and literally grabs me by the

1372
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:11,120
year.
And he said, kid, you see that

1373
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,320
thing up in there and that that
floating bed up there and he

1374
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:15,800
goes get your ass up there and
fix that.

1375
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,120
Don't come down until I tell
you.

1376
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:19,960
And it happened to be a
spotlight and I went up there

1377
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,160
and it was a carbon arc super.
And I literally got my head,

1378
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:28,960
wrapped my head around it and
ended up working on all those.

1379
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:31,880
And at that time we had all the
follow spots for the Greek,

1380
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:36,600
every KTLA show, KTTV boom.
So I was became the spotlight

1381
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:37,960
manager.
Yeah.

1382
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:43,200
So literally, I would do all the
spots, and I became a juicer.

1383
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,960
So I did Soul Train for three to
five seasons and one of our

1384
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,400
biggest clients at the time was
Academy Lighting.

1385
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:52,560
Yeah.
Which was Carl Gibson, Jeff

1386
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,360
Ingle, Bobby Dickinson and so
on.

1387
01:15:58,000 --> 01:15:59,920
Yeah.
So we, that was at a time where

1388
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,440
hell I was.
I gaffed like three or four jobs

1389
01:16:02,440 --> 01:16:05,280
for Bobby by the time I was 818
years old.

1390
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,840
Yeah, I think I did Igloo
Commercial and I did a tabletop

1391
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,080
thing.
Then I was juicing for him on a

1392
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,400
bunch of things.
He left Academy Lighting.

1393
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:17,680
I ended up working on Soul Train
for probably five seasons as a

1394
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,840
juicer spotlight operator.
Then Jeff Engle, at the time,

1395
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,800
him and Carl Gibson were the
flip 2LED LDS on that show.

1396
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:30,880
Also worked on Don Christian's
rock concert and we did that

1397
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:37,320
show and dude, I mean I was when
the police first came out, they

1398
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:41,520
were showcased there.
Pat Benatar, Molly Hatchet, Men

1399
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,520
with yellow hats, Devo.
I saw all of them.

1400
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:45,880
And I was in.
Front of the.

1401
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,520
Greatest Bands?
I'm just going like what?

1402
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,880
I get chills thinking about it.
I get paid to do this.

1403
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:57,280
Did this really happen right?
And so through that, I also had

1404
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,960
a friend that came to a lot of
shows, and he was one of the

1405
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,640
youngest bands I ever managed
was his name is Marty

1406
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:07,640
Fredrickson, and Marty is a
major producer these days.

1407
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:10,760
Owens, a major studio in
Nashville, Co, wrote the song.

1408
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:14,680
Jaded, produced.
Pump, produced about four other

1409
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,760
records with Aerosmith,
introduced me to Aerosmith.

1410
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,880
So that's how my relationship
with Aerosmith happened.

1411
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:25,520
Then Marty's multi platinum
award winner, he's he's worked

1412
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:26,960
with every artist you can
imagine.

1413
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,160
He's done multiple records of
Buckcherry, Mötley Crüe, Da da

1414
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,840
da Da Marty.
Back in that day, I was managing

1415
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,480
his band called Rd.
Crew.

1416
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:37,280
And we were just, we were
brothers.

1417
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,640
Yeah.
And he, I brought him to those

1418
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:43,240
shows and that inspired him to
really write music.

1419
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,320
And then I was in the production
side.

1420
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:50,360
And today we look at each other
and go, wow, where was that life

1421
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:54,120
those years ago?
But yeah, Don Kirschner's was

1422
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,840
just an amazing time frame.
I ended up working.

1423
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:03,680
So from that spotlights, I ended
up putting them on Midnight

1424
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,320
Special.
I was working on them there.

1425
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:09,920
And then Xenons came out and we
had the first Xenon Super

1426
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,480
Troopers in America.
They got shipped to us to the

1427
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:18,160
West Coast, and I built those
and put those on any Terrio show

1428
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:20,480
or did Solid Gold is what that
was.

1429
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:23,680
Yeah.
Then I saw just multiple bands

1430
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,520
through that, you know, working
on those 'cause I, you were

1431
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,720
breaking down and I have to go
fix them and, and yadda, yadda.

1432
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,960
So meanwhile, all that was
happening, we were also getting

1433
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,600
calls to go to Phoenix and the
West Coast through Beaver

1434
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:38,680
Productions, which was a concert
promoter.

1435
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,480
And I would pack up six
spotlights and I'd run out for

1436
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:46,040
the weekend on a Thursday night,
Friday, Saturday shows, that

1437
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:47,920
Saddle Dome and, and all that
stuff.

1438
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:50,400
And I met so many different
talented people.

1439
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,520
That's where we did kiss.
First time I ever saw kiss, I

1440
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,520
was like 18 years old and so on.
And one time I went and I did

1441
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:58,600
rush.
Yeah.

1442
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:02,600
And I'm sitting in the bathroom.
Next to me is Howard Unger,

1443
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:04,480
Lighter.
Yeah, and here I am, just a

1444
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:06,440
young kid.
Hopefully, hopefully you're in

1445
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,280
separate stalls.
We were totally sad.

1446
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,240
All right, You know, it was just
a general conversation and he's

1447
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:12,400
like, hey, kid, what are you
doing?

1448
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:13,800
Right?
I go, well, I'm here with the

1449
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:14,960
follow spots.
Boom.

1450
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,280
Next thing you know, he's like,
I'm in LA this week.

1451
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:20,280
You want to come on out and so
on.

1452
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,680
And there became another
brotherly love, right?

1453
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:27,760
And I mean, I think I was 17
years old when I met Howard and

1454
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:33,840
I had run into some problems
with DU is back in the early

1455
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,920
area of my life.
And I had talked with Howard

1456
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:42,520
many times about trying to get
me involved with C Factor 'cause

1457
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:45,840
I wanted to go concert touring.
Yeah, 'cause I got the bug from

1458
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:49,280
spotlights being at these live
shows and seeing part and all

1459
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:53,360
these bands and and so on.
And he's like, dude, you'll

1460
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:55,200
never end up touring in this
business.

1461
01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:58,440
Why he goes because you're DU is
you'll never be able to get into

1462
01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:00,200
Canada.
You won't be able to get across

1463
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,160
the board and so on.
So I don't know.

1464
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:04,840
It was about 20 years ago.
I said look at me now brother.

1465
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:08,560
That's funny.
That's funny.

1466
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:10,400
I love.
How you put your passion to it

1467
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:13,400
and you basically go, I'm going
to get it done one way or

1468
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,480
another.
One thing led to another, those

1469
01:20:16,480 --> 01:20:19,560
spotlights.
I became the manager of the shop

1470
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:24,040
and then we started again.
I'm doing massive power jobs

1471
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:29,600
that I did massive generator
distribution and transformer

1472
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:33,720
distribution for every major
show that you can have in town.

1473
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,560
And then we were doing mix
Mickey Thompson, Super Bowl of

1474
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,920
motocross.
All of that stuff benounced to

1475
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:41,960
me.
We we ended up doing a show with

1476
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:47,200
a company called Obi's.
And then I met I did another

1477
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,480
show called a movie called the
Rose.

1478
01:20:49,480 --> 01:20:51,400
And the designer of that was
Chipmunk.

1479
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:53,360
Chipmunk.
If nobody knows Chipmunk.

1480
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:57,120
He was the original lighting
director for Woodstock, Hello

1481
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,400
Little show.
And he was the road original Rd.

1482
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:05,280
manager for the Stones.
Chip took me out to lunch one

1483
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:10,880
time and they basically stole me
from ACDC, introduced me to O VS

1484
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:13,640
because they didn't have
somebody at that time that did

1485
01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:19,560
sizable Power Distribution.
So I got thrown right into

1486
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:24,920
Coca-Cola in 88.
And I think prior to that, I

1487
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:29,760
ended up doing a Toyota National
Convention and relationship went

1488
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:31,080
along.
I ended up doing a bunch of

1489
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:36,760
shows with Chip for a few years,
Beach Boys after show baseball

1490
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,680
game.
So he mentored me a lot in the

1491
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:42,080
early days, just showed me
structure and so on.

1492
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:45,920
And I, I appreciate it.
Just absorbed everything I

1493
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,280
possibly could, you know, and
then, you know, then I ended up

1494
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:50,840
touring for many, many years
broke.

1495
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,440
Yeah, you had you had some good
mentors growing up in the

1496
01:21:55,440 --> 01:21:57,520
business, it sounds.
Like super lucky, man, super

1497
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,280
lucky.
I mean, I met some amazing

1498
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:01,720
people, a lot met a lot of young
promoters at the time.

1499
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:06,880
Scott DeVos out of San Diego
became our GM Adobe's after a

1500
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,440
period of time.
A lot of ton, tons of great

1501
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:12,480
relationships.
Greg Harriman at San Diego.

1502
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:14,120
I used to do a bunch of stuff at
San Diego too.

1503
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,760
It's, it's such a cool industry
for that, you know, I mean, just

1504
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:20,960
the relationships that you have
in this industry and how nice

1505
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:25,000
those people are and how you
know, their life, their life

1506
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:26,960
relationships.
I don't know that those happen

1507
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:29,800
in every industry.
No, they don't.

1508
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:33,320
You know, it's like Wiseman and
I don't talk a lot these days,

1509
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:37,320
but we spent so much time
developing, you know, a touring

1510
01:22:38,480 --> 01:22:40,480
compact Truss system for the
very lights.

1511
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:42,720
That was a competition with the
Morpheus unit.

1512
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,560
That was the big thing in my
game after developing the

1513
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:51,040
Telescan, and the Z scan being a
big part of that, which was an

1514
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:54,840
idea of Peter Morris and I on a
napkin at one point.

1515
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:59,360
Hey, what if you put a mirror on
a xenon and we sketched it out?

1516
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:00,440
Boom.
Next thing you know, I was

1517
01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:01,960
patting it, right.
Yeah.

1518
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,600
Then it was like.
Didn't it start with an air?

1519
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:08,360
Something about an airport.
Remember Peter explaining it to

1520
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:11,320
me?
Not not sure to be honest with

1521
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:14,200
you, how really I think Peter
and I were I think Peter and I

1522
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:21,160
were at dinner in Tahoe working
on some God off a movie that we

1523
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:23,520
were doing.
But it it was an amazing movie,

1524
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,880
but it was just didn't get a
credit that it it was showgirls.

1525
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:29,680
And then I was out the dinner
with him one night and he's

1526
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,440
like, have you ever thought
about putting that mirror on a

1527
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:36,320
xenon?
So of course I went, hmm, I put

1528
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:41,120
it to the engineers, we looked
at it and then we built it for

1529
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:45,600
Pink Floyd as the front house
spotlights all operated manual

1530
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,680
one operator for six follow
spots there.

1531
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:50,720
And we ended up putting on Yumi
Matsutoya.

1532
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:52,640
Mark Brickman was a catalyst to
that.

1533
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,000
And you know, then it had its
own life.

1534
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:01,040
It wasn't as it wasn't as
infamous as the Telescan one and

1535
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:05,360
two, right, Because that again
was an analog motor on the

1536
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:08,280
mirror versus a cyber scam,
which was a digital and it had

1537
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:12,480
that it it gracefully sweeped in
and it had a 1200 Watt HMI,

1538
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:14,400
which I was a front fan of at
the time.

1539
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,880
Yeah.
And versus the Telespot and

1540
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,960
those other things which were a
lower end vibe to it, but they

1541
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:24,600
had their own market.
Those things were like a game

1542
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,960
changer or something that sort
of separated Obi from the rest,

1543
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:33,680
I guess in some sense, yeah.
No, I mean definitely, but that

1544
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:37,120
landed them a lot of the big,
big shows, you know, the the

1545
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:39,240
Michael Jacksons and Pink
Floyds.

1546
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,880
And all of these we didn't have
the major contract behind that

1547
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:44,640
behind the total thing, but that
allowed us to get in the

1548
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,760
conversation right, right,
because then I was a packaging.

1549
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:51,240
So on Pink Floyd, we were ended
up, you know, we ended up doing

1550
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:53,920
all the North American stuff
because Chameleon did the

1551
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:58,080
relationship with Mark overseas.
But I ended up being awarded the

1552
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:01,440
contract for all the telescans,
all the projectors.

1553
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,920
We ended up doing lasers and a
couple other things that I ended

1554
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,320
up being the contractor on,
which then rolled over into

1555
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,880
Genesis.
I ended up was a GC on Genesis

1556
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,120
in 92 that we can't dance to
her.

1557
01:25:14,480 --> 01:25:17,320
That then just dominoed into
many other things, right.

1558
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:21,080
But we we had sprinkles.
I mean, we were putting packages

1559
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:25,600
of 6 to 18 units out just
telescans on whether it was the

1560
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:27,760
stones this or that.
So that put us in the

1561
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:31,400
conversation on a lot of things
to general contract packages

1562
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,040
too.
Yeah, yeah, It's really

1563
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:37,160
interesting.
I mean, I just, I, one of the

1564
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:40,520
cool things about being old is,
is that we've seen so many

1565
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:42,880
different things, you know, and
especially when you think about

1566
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:46,400
moving light technology, you
know, you've been there for the

1567
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:50,480
entirety of it and I've been
there for almost the entirety of

1568
01:25:50,480 --> 01:25:53,600
it.
And it's cool, you know, because

1569
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,800
a lot of people coming up
through lighting right now think

1570
01:25:55,800 --> 01:26:00,560
that everything's just amazingly
well built and really reliable

1571
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:04,680
and super fast and cheap and all
of these things, right?

1572
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:07,000
No, not so much.
I mean, we dealt with some

1573
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:11,080
broken shit back then, you know?
I mean, I'm sure it was a lot of

1574
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:13,680
work to keep telescans working
too, you know?

1575
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,120
Well, they, they, you know, they
were the, the Fiat on the road,

1576
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:20,600
the Fiar Ferrari Fiat.
So it broke down you, you had to

1577
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:22,240
have a mechanic there, right?
So, yeah.

1578
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,040
But then when they worked, they
were precise, they were

1579
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:26,960
beautiful.
Stunning.

1580
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:30,440
Well, I mean, just that big fat
beam was so cool, you know?

1581
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:32,960
Yeah.
And then then it just zeroed out

1582
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:35,560
the iris again.
I was huge fan of the irises,

1583
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:39,480
yes, because of the Super
Trooper and the iris on that.

1584
01:26:39,480 --> 01:26:43,680
And yeah, it's just the, the,
the beauty of it.

1585
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,080
I'm a huge fan.
I've been very fortunate to work

1586
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,240
cross-platform between
Rock'n'roll Theater, working

1587
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:53,640
with Peggy Eisenhower out of
Jules Fisher's office and seeing

1588
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:58,240
her design for Fishbone and then
seeing her design, you know, for

1589
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,760
an opera or an operatic show and
being part of that education and

1590
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:05,080
seeing her work on CSN.
Yeah.

1591
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:08,560
And then seeing the talent
crossover between there and

1592
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:13,640
absorb that in the brain and
utilize that and pull that when

1593
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,320
you.
Need, right, yeah.

1594
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,520
So what do you think of where
the industry's at today?

1595
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:23,320
Like do you have any thoughts
of, you know, especially from a

1596
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:26,240
technology standpoint, like are
are you pretty happy with where

1597
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:29,080
we're at or you think we're?
I'm, I'm blown away.

1598
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:33,840
It's like, you know, again, I'm
blown away on the the overturn

1599
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:38,040
of technology.
Yeah, we used to be, we used to

1600
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,880
see a three to three-year cycle
of technology other than the

1601
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:44,560
part can and the motor and and
so on.

1602
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:48,640
We saw the generation of gel
strings and shit like that

1603
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,080
happen.
You know, I'm blown away on how

1604
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:54,800
fast things are just turning
over.

1605
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,760
Yeah.
And and more so LED where it has

1606
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:03,600
gone already in the last so many
years since I had a chance to

1607
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:08,440
work with it and so on.
So I don't think it's I don't

1608
01:28:08,440 --> 01:28:09,960
think it's stopping anytime
soon.

1609
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:12,280
I think that there's always
going to be a you know, I'm

1610
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:17,480
hoping that the drone life has
more life for it other than just

1611
01:28:17,480 --> 01:28:20,480
taking over fireworks.
I mean, I like the fact that,

1612
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:24,240
you know, you have a source to
take over combustibles for the

1613
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:26,920
sustainability of Mother Nature
and that stuff.

1614
01:28:27,480 --> 01:28:30,680
I still am a traditional fan of
liking fireworks, but I just

1615
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:33,040
don't like what it does to the
Earth, right?

1616
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:37,000
Just like I don't like what
generator fuels do to our planet

1617
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:40,120
anymore.
I'm a big proponent of

1618
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:43,440
sustainability.
So LED and technology.

1619
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:45,920
The more it grows, the better
the engines become, the less

1620
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,120
juice it sucks up, the more it
gives back to the Earth.

1621
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:51,640
And it doesn't cost to to make
it.

1622
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,040
It's like it's, you know, I'm,
I'm.

1623
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:57,040
Are you seeing these battery
companies now doing the?

1624
01:28:57,480 --> 01:28:59,840
Festivals, yeah, I'm just
looking into that.

1625
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:03,480
I hate Tesla.
I hate electric vehicles.

1626
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,600
I love them, but I hate them.
But when you look at them, I'm a

1627
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,920
huge fan.
I've got, I own 2 fire trucks,

1628
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,960
1960 fire trucks.
I own 274 vans.

1629
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:15,440
You know, I've got a Harley.
I've got all this stuff.

1630
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:18,640
I don't have an electric
vehicle, but what I do use, I

1631
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:23,680
sustain what has been built
before and I use it properly to

1632
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:27,240
do what it is I want to do.
I will not buy an electric

1633
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:32,680
vehicle that that same battery
has cost lives to build from,

1634
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:38,280
you know, fracking in Asia and
or Africa and, and all of the

1635
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:40,280
pollutions that come with that
battery.

1636
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:44,960
When you weigh the two together,
it's like that fossil fuel is

1637
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:46,880
there.
It costs a certain amount that

1638
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:51,800
combustible goes up in the air.
I'm still like I haven't bought

1639
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:53,800
into well.
I don't think the net, I don't

1640
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,160
think the net gain is what
they're trying to sell you.

1641
01:29:56,440 --> 01:29:58,720
You know what I mean?
Like they they sell you on this,

1642
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:01,440
Oh my God, we're saving the
planet if you buy this Tesla.

1643
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:03,240
It's bullshit.
You know.

1644
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:08,360
But what I was talking about is
the the battery power systems

1645
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:13,160
for for shows like a lot of
festivals and stuff are starting

1646
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,640
to go instead of generators,
they're going to these battery.

1647
01:30:16,440 --> 01:30:19,600
It's just they're not, they're
not bulky enough for it, right?

1648
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,400
So you can do it.
I mean, here's here's what I

1649
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,000
always look at whenever I'm
producing a show these days.

1650
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:26,400
And I talked with my T DS and so
on.

1651
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:28,640
It's like first thing you look
at is grid power.

1652
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:32,080
OK, the most sustainable source
you're going to get is grid

1653
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:34,040
power.
Take a look at what you can

1654
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:37,160
negotiate or tell me where
there's 480 power where I can

1655
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:41,280
drop a transformer.
OK #1 #2 Let's get into the

1656
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:43,880
conversation of why we need
fuels.

1657
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,600
At the end of the day, if we're
going into a four wall venue,

1658
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,080
there's a certain amount of
power there.

1659
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:52,440
We're gonna convert that.
Then whatever we build the show

1660
01:30:52,440 --> 01:30:57,120
based on that and we try to
contain it, which LED allows us

1661
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,600
to get there right.
But then you you got to bring up

1662
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:05,480
that word of power generators.
I had the same thing at it but

1663
01:31:05,480 --> 01:31:10,080
for Balloon Museum last year.
And, you know, I went to CES,

1664
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:16,000
which is what, you know, Steve
Jackson Hatchet was my brother

1665
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,000
at Obi's forever.
Why?

1666
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:21,080
You know, I And if you ever talk
to Steve, he's straightforward.

1667
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:22,840
Yeah.
He's like, it's diesel fuel,

1668
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:24,360
bro.
If you want to see the planet,

1669
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:25,560
go somewhere else.
Yeah.

1670
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:30,120
The day when we talk about it,
they are doing things, you know

1671
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:34,080
them, Tristar, all these other
people are trying to go to

1672
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:38,520
biofuels and they're trying to
do these power generator plants

1673
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:43,560
and or storage cells.
And I just haven't seen.

1674
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:48,240
Anything.
Well, there's the one company

1675
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:50,120
out of California, I can't
remember what they're called,

1676
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:54,720
but I was, I did a podcast with
Richard Kadena and he had just

1677
01:31:54,720 --> 01:32:02,200
used them on on Willie Nelson's
festival in Austin and they

1678
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:07,000
brought big diesel generators as
backup just in case 'cause they

1679
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,600
were, they were a little sketchy
on it all, but they never had a

1680
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:12,160
problem.
It was great.

1681
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:17,520
But a solar farm built out in a
field not too far away, and

1682
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:19,640
that's.
What we're doing, so at the end

1683
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:21,480
of the day, I've got another
package that I'm working out

1684
01:32:21,480 --> 01:32:24,920
that just got postponed till
next year, that it's a holiday

1685
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:27,280
seasonal thing and we're going
to end up doing our own solar

1686
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:29,480
farm.
So ultimately they they ask me,

1687
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,680
you know, it's it's at a mall.
And they asked me what would you

1688
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:34,400
do?
And I said I would solar farm

1689
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:35,960
the rooftops of each one of
these things.

1690
01:32:36,480 --> 01:32:37,920
Yeah.
So that's that's it.

1691
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:40,440
Because at the end of the day, I
don't want a biofuels and I

1692
01:32:40,440 --> 01:32:42,120
don't want a diesel fuel if I
don't have to.

1693
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:46,560
Now the cost of doing business
is increased by X Factor, right.

1694
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,200
But in the long run, if you're
doing a three to five year

1695
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,000
business plan, the returns would
be greater for you there and

1696
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:54,880
greater returns for the planet,
right.

1697
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:57,200
But that makes sense that that's
not only power.

1698
01:32:57,200 --> 01:32:59,480
We look at total production
across the board.

1699
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,480
Yeah.
And you know, then I, I bring up

1700
01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:06,320
the name 3 Square, which is
Jamie Knacks company.

1701
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:12,000
And she is a she's a company
that basically consults on all

1702
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:16,200
things sustainable.
She's Al Gore's vocal and voice

1703
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:19,040
when it comes to sustainability.
She is an amazing person.

1704
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:25,400
I met her in 2027 or excuse me,
2017 on Equilibrium up in Tahoe,

1705
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,520
which was produced by a good
brother of mine, Anthony

1706
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:30,280
Randall, who I do a lot of
productions with.

1707
01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:35,280
And Anthony introduced me to her
and he, he has a company called

1708
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,320
Equilibrium and he morphed it
into Planet Home where we ended

1709
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:42,160
up producing up at the Palace of
Fine Arts in San Francisco as

1710
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:45,600
well.
Introduced me to Jamie.

1711
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:49,960
And then Jamie basically was our
sustainable police.

1712
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:52,720
Yeah.
And when I was producing the

1713
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:59,560
Sprint sessions or the six
camera shoot of talent that we

1714
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:02,960
would bring in and we would
interview collectives of

1715
01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:08,120
scientists and sports people and
talk about impact in action.

1716
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,960
You know what, what's the impact
and what's the action we can do

1717
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:12,880
to respond to that?
Things that we can do.

1718
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:16,960
This was a cliche world back in
17 where everybody was talking

1719
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,680
about it.
Amy's one that actually does it.

1720
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:23,400
So she put me on a path on you
know, when you need pallets,

1721
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,840
let's reuse old pallets.
Let's not buy new pallets.

1722
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:31,680
Let's when you you know, when
you use different fluids, let's

1723
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,160
find a sustainable fluids.
It's better for Mother Earth

1724
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:36,200
when it gets recycled.
When you're looking at

1725
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:38,760
adhesives, let's look at
adhesives this way.

1726
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:42,800
So she gave me a Bible to this,
to this day, which is, I think

1727
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:48,680
it's United Nations 21 to one
formula they use.

1728
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:52,200
So we, we follow, try to follow
that, but we take it further.

1729
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:56,360
We, we're taking actions where
we see a lot of this happening

1730
01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:58,840
with the live nations and so on.
Say that they're going to do it.

1731
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:02,120
But then it, it doesn't end up
really be doing it to a certain

1732
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,400
degree.
And I, and I can't say for it

1733
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:08,400
100% 'cause I'm sure their
efforts are in good faith.

1734
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:11,440
And I think it's only going to
get better just as technology

1735
01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:13,760
changes.
So it's, it's going to change,

1736
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:16,960
but at the end of the day, we're
doing things a little different

1737
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:19,600
that ultimately we'll be able to
talk about in about another six

1738
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:20,120
months.
Well.

1739
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:26,240
The thing is, as you know,
Michael, the again, it's all

1740
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:30,640
incentive based and you can't
just the, the only incentive

1741
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:34,680
can't be to make somebody feel
better about themselves or

1742
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:36,560
whatever, right?
That's just not going to work up

1743
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:41,520
and down the line financially.
And so as costs come down,

1744
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:45,400
because I used to go through
this, I had an LED company and,

1745
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:48,440
and when we were, you know,
approaching a large company to

1746
01:35:48,440 --> 01:35:53,320
change out all their lighting to
LED or whatever, you know, the

1747
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:56,760
incentive had to be there.
And, and fortunately, as time

1748
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:59,520
went on, the incentive became
very good because, you know, the

1749
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,720
stuff was paying for itself in
less than a year and and then

1750
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:06,760
produced all kinds of savings
over time.

1751
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:08,880
So you show them a five year
model or whatever and they go,

1752
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:13,440
wow, you know, so I agree.
I mean, the incentive has to be

1753
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:16,040
there.
And if there's incentive, I

1754
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:18,800
think you can get people to do
almost anything.

1755
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:21,240
So just like everything else,
once it's on the market for a

1756
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:24,040
while, things you know, there's
going to be more competition,

1757
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:27,400
there's going to be better,
better property, better product

1758
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:28,880
and so on.
And they're going to get the

1759
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:31,840
actually tooling of it down to a
reasonable cost.

1760
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:35,160
Same things happening, you know,
with the generators, they're

1761
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:38,280
getting the cells down better
than the actual output is going

1762
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:41,120
to be better.
I mean, I did this last 10 years

1763
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:43,240
ago.
I did a Band Of Horses at the

1764
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:47,400
top of the Hollywood sign and we
couldn't take generators up

1765
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:51,760
there and we had to shoot the
band live and I had to do

1766
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:54,160
battery cells.
And it was all done through the

1767
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:57,360
cinema market, which only had
these little suitcase battery

1768
01:36:57,360 --> 01:37:02,320
packs that then I was using.
You know, I went to ACDC

1769
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:04,760
equipment company, my brother
Carlos, and I said, what's out

1770
01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:06,480
there?
What are the light sources?

1771
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:08,440
I need keynotes for that up
light.

1772
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:11,840
But everything else around it, I
want LED and oh, by the way,

1773
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:14,720
I've got a sound console that
we're recording live sound.

1774
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,440
I need to power it all.
We ended up, we're successful on

1775
01:37:18,440 --> 01:37:20,000
that.
So if you ever have a chance to

1776
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:22,760
take a look at that, that was
Band Of Horses live at the

1777
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:25,280
Hollywood Sign.
That was all the cool batteries.

1778
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:27,920
Yeah.
And was pretty, pretty kick ass

1779
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:30,080
band.
So young director there,

1780
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:33,000
Brantley Gutierrez, who I worked
on a bunch of Incubus projects

1781
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:36,800
with, asked me to do that.
And you know, again, I was the

1782
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:38,800
production designer and art
director.

1783
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:42,400
So I did the entire setting on
it and I ended up having to do

1784
01:37:42,400 --> 01:37:44,360
the technical side of the
background of it.

1785
01:37:44,440 --> 01:37:46,160
Then that just came back from
there.

1786
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:48,120
I had my son work on it,
everybody else.

1787
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:51,520
And that was the first time that
I literally went, you know what?

1788
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,600
There's an alternative to a
generator.

1789
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:55,960
Yeah, yeah.
And again, you're talking to an

1790
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:58,040
old a generator operator.
Too, Yes.

1791
01:37:58,240 --> 01:38:00,160
No.
But again, you know, as long as

1792
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:04,240
the price gets down and the the
ability to deliver enough power

1793
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:09,200
within a reasonable size comes
down, you know.

1794
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,680
We've looked at it so many ways.
I've looked at 40 foot

1795
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:15,560
containers with the top of them
being solars or a 40 foot

1796
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:17,600
container that had so many.
We've done so many of these

1797
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:19,360
festivals where we've looked at
it.

1798
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:22,640
The plans are there.
The cost factor ends up being

1799
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:26,040
the major part, right?
And I don't want to do it just

1800
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:28,600
to do it.
I want to do it so we can

1801
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:33,280
actually help this carbon
footprint, the CO2 E man, it's

1802
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:35,840
just killing us.
Like you said earlier though,

1803
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:39,680
you do have to remember that you
know there are little kids

1804
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:43,000
without shoes on their feet
digging this shit out of mines

1805
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:47,000
in Africa, and you'd have to
remember that stuff.

1806
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:50,040
So in the trash again somewhere,
all right, so all of these solar

1807
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:53,560
panels and everything that we're
doing now is still it's like the

1808
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:57,240
scientists, you know, again, I'm
working with some people at MIT

1809
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:00,560
and so on on this stuff through
Anthony Randall and the

1810
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:04,600
organizational plan at home.
And so we constantly talk about

1811
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,840
this and we talked to
individuals, we're gonna be

1812
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:11,720
offering up consultation to this
stuff And, and we're doing

1813
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:14,800
educational stuff too.
I don't know if, you know, I do

1814
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:18,920
things for in kind of, or for
kids of foundations as well,

1815
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:21,520
foster systems and so on, where
I produce shows.

1816
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:27,520
So huge proponent of trying to
find and, or educate youth to

1817
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:31,080
throw in your can in the
recyclable and, or when you're

1818
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:34,200
using power, do it.
But dude, I, I go out there and

1819
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:37,760
I as I because I try to preach
some of this stuff today and I

1820
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,280
don't like being a pre preacher.
I still see the common waste

1821
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:45,080
that goes every day and it makes
me sick.

1822
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:47,320
Yeah.
The problem is though, most

1823
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,480
cities don't have the
infrastructure, so even though

1824
01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:55,520
they give you a blue bin and a
green bin and a whatever bin, it

1825
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,760
all goes to the same freaking
landfill.

1826
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:01,200
Most of the time, you know, we
do have.

1827
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:04,760
I mean, half the cities just
don't have the infrastructure

1828
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:11,160
for all of the recycling or, or
the OR the cost is so high that

1829
01:40:11,200 --> 01:40:14,320
it's just illogical, like it
doesn't make any sense.

1830
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:17,480
Yeah, so.
We, you know, we here at our

1831
01:40:17,480 --> 01:40:21,440
house, we separate and then we
take our cans and, and we, we

1832
01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:24,040
separate the plastics and so on.
Try to make it as easy as

1833
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:25,200
possible.
Yeah.

1834
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:28,040
But in the end, you know, we're
still wasteful.

1835
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:30,000
We still try to do our best,
right?

1836
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:32,680
But.
Well, here where I'm at right

1837
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:37,560
now in, in Alberta, I still
don't understand it cuz they

1838
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:41,080
have so many different colors of
bins and stuff and you know,

1839
01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:44,040
they have God I, what do they
call it?

1840
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:50,160
The buy not bio products but
basically like your your banana

1841
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:52,360
peels and stuff like that.
Yeah, it's compost.

1842
01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:54,040
That's your.
Yeah, I mean, that's your green

1843
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:56,280
bin.
Yeah, I mean, they've got that

1844
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:58,040
They've got, but they don't pick
it up.

1845
01:40:58,160 --> 01:41:01,080
So you literally have to go
drive it to a facility and I'm

1846
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:03,360
like, how does that make sense?
Well, then you.

1847
01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:05,840
Get your own composting bin if
you're well you're you're only

1848
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:07,920
there on vacation though.
For how long are you in Alberta?

1849
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:10,320
No, I'm here for months.
Oh, there you go.

1850
01:41:10,480 --> 01:41:11,560
That's right, I'm here for
months.

1851
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:13,960
Yeah, we we stay here for the
whole summer now, so.

1852
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:16,200
Awesome.
Well, yeah, compost.

1853
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:20,040
So I take all my, all my banana
peels and so on, go right out to

1854
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:21,760
the compost.
They go to the garden.

1855
01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:24,360
And then I, you know, I try to
have a green thumb.

1856
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:28,320
I'm a huge fan of bonsais.
Yeah.

1857
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:32,960
Oh wow, you and Tommy Lee.
Yeah, I'm just like a total nut

1858
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,520
for bonsais.
I try to bonsai everything and

1859
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:37,360
then I've been, I failed on many
of them.

1860
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,840
But at the end of the day, it
helps me Zen a bit 'cause I

1861
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,040
don't, you know, it's like
people go, how do you deal with

1862
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:44,720
stress?
And I said I just don't let it

1863
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:46,320
in, man.
Yeah, yeah.

1864
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:47,560
It's like.
Yeah, I don't.

1865
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:50,400
I don't, I don't get the bonsai
thing at all.

1866
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:54,280
You know, it just I don't have
that gene in me that just says

1867
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:57,440
let's slow this right down and
just sit here and trim this

1868
01:41:57,440 --> 01:41:59,760
little Bush.
It just doesn't.

1869
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:01,240
It's like something.
Grow.

1870
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:03,560
And that comes from the green
thumb of my mom, and that's

1871
01:42:03,560 --> 01:42:07,360
cool.
I'm not 100% successful with it,

1872
01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:10,800
but I like, I love a challenge.
Yeah, I've spent a lot of money

1873
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:13,560
on some damn good bonsais and
I've lost them.

1874
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:15,200
Like screw them up.
Yeah.

1875
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:17,360
So what did I do for my birthday
last week?

1876
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:20,960
I went and found a bougainvillea
for 12 bucks that I'm gonna

1877
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,840
bonsai.
Yeah, that's bougainvilleas that

1878
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:27,160
are I just like ornate.
Weird, So the bonsai isn't I.

1879
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:32,760
This is how stupid I am.
So the bonsai isn't the the tree

1880
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:35,920
type, correct?
It's the cutting type.

1881
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:40,280
It's the style, it's the, it's
the potting, it's the culture,

1882
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:42,600
right.
And I'm not a professor by any

1883
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:45,520
means.
Yeah, yeah, there are spruces.

1884
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:47,880
There are just tons of
different.

1885
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:50,400
How you know that?
Do I didn't know that.

1886
01:42:50,440 --> 01:42:53,600
The bowl, it's like what will
grow within that, you know, it's

1887
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:57,280
like, it's like a bougainvillea.
It won't grow in a shallow bowl,

1888
01:42:57,560 --> 01:42:59,960
but I acknowledge it too.
And I keep pressing it and

1889
01:42:59,960 --> 01:43:02,920
trying to figure it out, right,
with like, nutrients and so on.

1890
01:43:03,320 --> 01:43:06,720
And then I like Crimson Maples.
Yeah, I've got one that, like,

1891
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:08,440
I've killed a few of them over
the years.

1892
01:43:08,440 --> 01:43:11,040
And I've got one that has
regrown this year.

1893
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:12,600
And it's just like, blows me
away.

1894
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:14,560
And I'm like, yeah.
So how do you kill them?

1895
01:43:14,600 --> 01:43:16,880
You just like over trim.
Or whatever, water them and

1896
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,280
you're underwater them and then
you're either scorch them with

1897
01:43:19,280 --> 01:43:21,480
the sun or they're not in the
right shade, right.

1898
01:43:21,480 --> 01:43:25,200
So there's so many different
things and that's just amongst

1899
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:28,280
all the other challenges that I
have between budgets.

1900
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:31,760
Yeah, ideas and concepts and
decks.

1901
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:34,120
Then I've got all my plants
outside.

1902
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:37,160
Yeah, you got these trees trying
to trying to die as you're

1903
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:38,320
trying to make them survive.
I got.

1904
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:41,000
Two fire trucks that I'm
renovating and I've got two vans

1905
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:43,760
that I'm renovating.
Oh my God, you know, those fire

1906
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:46,240
trucks are those are usually for
really rich guys.

1907
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:49,680
Like I know, I know a few rich
guys that collect fire trucks

1908
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,200
and tractors, farm tractors or
another one that that rich guys

1909
01:43:54,200 --> 01:43:57,080
like to collect.
You know, Speaking of rich guys,

1910
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:59,800
Don Caron is into fire trucks.
Really.

1911
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:04,000
Yeah, well, I was wealthy one
time, then I went through two

1912
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,960
divorces, lost three houses, and
then I went through the pandemic

1913
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:10,880
after with everything literally
moving everything to Nashville.

1914
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:15,280
Almost went bankrupt to come
back to LA, Then fortunate

1915
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:19,080
enough to land a position again
with S2 BN Entertainment and

1916
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:24,040
insult for them and to work for
them and to let a senior like me

1917
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:27,120
still try to stay fresh.
No, good for you.

1918
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:30,880
It sounds like you found a a
perfect situation with really,

1919
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,600
really amazing people and you're
obviously very happy there.

1920
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,600
You're much happier than last
time I spoke to you on the

1921
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:40,600
podcast.
I was, yeah, last time I was in.

1922
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:42,680
Between it all.
Well, I was dealing with the

1923
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:44,640
theater that I was renovating,
Yeah.

1924
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:48,840
And then I had another job back
in LA that I had designed and I

1925
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:51,360
had just left the OB company for
my second time.

1926
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:56,360
And it was, you know, it was a
whole different move and, and I

1927
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,280
had just been diagnosed with
fatty liver and so on.

1928
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:03,000
And luckily I've ran, you know,
gotten all of that.

1929
01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:07,600
And I was £230 back then.
But when you saw me, I had lost

1930
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:11,320
40 lbs in three months and I
went cold Turkey.

1931
01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:14,520
People ask me how you did it.
And I quit smoking and drinking

1932
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:17,240
at the same time.
I did it because I was told that

1933
01:45:17,240 --> 01:45:20,520
I had hardening of the liver and
my ex-wife had just killed

1934
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:22,360
herself.
So I didn't want my kids to be

1935
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,760
orphans.
And I say, if you're going to do

1936
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:27,560
this, you're going to do it.
And then again, I, you know,

1937
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:30,920
good for you.
And at my age, you know, I, I go

1938
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,840
once 1/4 and I try to stay
healthy now.

1939
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:37,800
So it's like I, I try to stay as
young as possible, get out,

1940
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:40,120
exercise.
And I want to live, man.

1941
01:45:40,160 --> 01:45:41,880
I've got too many friends every
day.

1942
01:45:41,880 --> 01:45:46,840
Above above dirt is a good day.
But it makes you almost want to

1943
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:50,320
get off social media because as
much as I love seeing my friends

1944
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:52,360
on social media, and it's why I
have it.

1945
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:55,440
Yeah.
I hate seeing dead people, you

1946
01:45:55,440 --> 01:45:57,840
know, I just hate the
announcements that you get, you

1947
01:45:57,840 --> 01:45:58,480
know?
Yeah.

1948
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:01,640
It's it's just so sad.
I I can't stand it.

1949
01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:04,200
But you know, The funny thing
about health, and I had this

1950
01:46:04,200 --> 01:46:06,520
conversation just the other day
with Robert Roth.

1951
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:09,360
I was talking to him about
something, probably Craig.

1952
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:10,720
I think he called me about
Craig.

1953
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:11,880
Yeah.
And.

1954
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,320
And he said, you know, and this
is how I look at it too.

1955
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:19,840
He said, you know, if I knew it
was this simple a long time ago,

1956
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:22,840
I probably would have had a much
healthier lifestyle.

1957
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:26,440
And I said, what do you mean?
And he said, well, apparently

1958
01:46:26,440 --> 01:46:31,880
diet, exercise, sleep and lack
of putting bad shit into your

1959
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:35,480
body, like alcohol and drugs and
everything else, apparently

1960
01:46:35,480 --> 01:46:37,320
there's something there.
And I said, yeah, you're right.

1961
01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:38,920
There's something there.
Well, that's, you know, Robert's

1962
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:41,080
probably one of those that went
through all the debauchery like

1963
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:42,320
me and those days.
Of course he did.

1964
01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:45,160
Robert went hard.
We went hard.

1965
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:49,760
Yeah, we all.
He, he's been, he's been sober

1966
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:53,200
for a year and a few days now,
like when I spoke to him, it was

1967
01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:57,040
a year a couple days ago, so.
Another, you know, another,

1968
01:46:57,640 --> 01:47:01,120
another professional in the
industry that I truly respect

1969
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:02,680
him.
And I went head to head on a

1970
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:05,280
bunch of contracts way back in
the day at Obi's.

1971
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:07,840
Didn't have a lot of respect for
each other back then.

1972
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:10,080
But today I've got a ton of
respect.

1973
01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:14,360
You know, I'm, I'm old enough
and wise enough to, to look at

1974
01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:16,880
the pros in the business and
have appreciation for them.

1975
01:47:16,880 --> 01:47:19,000
And then there's a lot of names
that I don't know that people

1976
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,240
try to reach out to me.
And if you know me, I'm, I'm not

1977
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:25,480
100% sociable.
Yeah, at the end of the day,

1978
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:29,600
I've got a niche core, but I try
to get out there these days more

1979
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:34,800
often to say hi to folks and to.
Well, that's another thing

1980
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:36,720
that's important as we get
older.

1981
01:47:37,480 --> 01:47:41,880
I mean, one of the biggest
causes of dementia is lack of a

1982
01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:44,360
good solid social life.
Yeah, whack.

1983
01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:45,960
You know, sleep.
You said sleep, man.

1984
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:47,320
These days I'm sleep's
important.

1985
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:49,120
A lot.
Sleep's important these days.

1986
01:47:49,240 --> 01:47:51,160
Yeah.
This week has been rough for me

1987
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:55,440
because it's like, I'll sleep
for, you know, 26 hours and then

1988
01:47:55,440 --> 01:47:57,200
I can't sleep for two days or
whatever.

1989
01:47:57,200 --> 01:48:01,280
But yeah, Well, Michael, I
appreciate you very much taking

1990
01:48:01,280 --> 01:48:06,040
the time to do this with me, and
it's always nice to catch up

1991
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:07,480
with you, of course.
Appreciate it.

1992
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:10,240
We should do it more often.
Listen, I wanna end with saying

1993
01:48:10,240 --> 01:48:13,000
some thank you to some folks.
Yeah, OK, you go for it.

1994
01:48:13,080 --> 01:48:15,880
Well, you started with, you
know, saying sorry for all the

1995
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:18,200
dead people and now you're now
you're thanking people.

1996
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:19,400
So that's.
I wanna you know you're.

1997
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:21,120
Ending positive.
Yeah.

1998
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:23,600
And and if you know me, I'm a
storyteller.

1999
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:27,080
I've written and and I've done a
lot of treatments and I've been

2000
01:48:27,080 --> 01:48:29,760
very, very fortunate in this
business and in this world to

2001
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:33,320
meet people like yourself.
You and I go back I think 3839

2002
01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:34,880
years now.
Long friggin time, yeah.

2003
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:38,320
So it's like, you know, with my
relationship with you, I want to

2004
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:41,360
thank you very much for that
team that you just helped me

2005
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:43,800
with.
Yeah, your team was amazing to

2006
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,600
help me, you know, liquidate
some of the properties that we

2007
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:50,080
just had on a package that
didn't go 100% and, you know, we

2008
01:48:50,080 --> 01:48:51,880
needed to get rid of it.
It took a while, but it got

2009
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:53,520
done.
And your team was pro about it.

2010
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:55,000
So I thank you for that.
Yeah.

2011
01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:58,400
You know, there's people like
Steve Jackson want to thank him

2012
01:48:58,400 --> 01:48:59,840
big time.
Yeah, Steve.

2013
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:04,160
He, when I first came to OB's,
he was a shop manager back then

2014
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:08,920
and he was so instrumental on a
lot of people's lives at

2015
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:12,240
producing some amazing product
going out of that office.

2016
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:15,920
You know, Paul George, if people
don't know, AKA Ringo, Paul

2017
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:19,440
George, amazing talent.
He's his own creative producer

2018
01:49:19,440 --> 01:49:21,720
in his own right left Obi's many
years ago.

2019
01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:24,320
He's got a company called
Gorilla Production out of

2020
01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:28,280
Franklin, TN Good buddy of mine.
I and these are people I spent

2021
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:31,400
time on the road with.
So, you know, rigor, obviously,

2022
01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:34,680
Carlos Sandoval, one of my best
friends out there.

2023
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:39,840
The Santana crew, you know,
designed Santana back in 2000.

2024
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:44,000
And that was, you know, Santana.
And Clint came to me through

2025
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:48,160
Michael Kiefer and Dale Doucet.
Michael Kiefer, AKA Haas, if you

2026
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:52,640
don't know him, an amazing cat.
Yeah, Dale, very talented.

2027
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:53,960
Dale.
I would love to see you

2028
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:55,920
interview him at some point in
time.

2029
01:49:57,000 --> 01:49:57,920
Yeah.
Dale.

2030
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:01,240
Dale has a great thing that he
he's got going on at, you know,

2031
01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:04,440
up in his neck of the woods.
Steve Lemon.

2032
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:06,320
Yeah.
Lemon Amazing.

2033
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:09,080
I've known forever.
Steve has been a tour director

2034
01:50:09,080 --> 01:50:12,840
on multiple shows that I've been
on Aerosmith and then him and

2035
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:15,440
I've worked on many things.
Marty Fredrickson, the producer

2036
01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:17,640
I mentioned to you again, known
him forever.

2037
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:20,280
If you guys don't know Marty
Fredrickson, just look him up

2038
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:24,480
and what the work he's done with
Aerosmith and many other bands.

2039
01:50:24,480 --> 01:50:27,720
Morse Wright, Jay Daltman,
Robert Altman's grandson.

2040
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:31,680
Jade and Morris both were our
directors for me on multiple

2041
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:33,240
accounts.
Mark Romanek.

2042
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:37,080
You know, Mark Romanek is one of
the directors that helped make

2043
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:39,880
my career.
Yeah, Mark is like one of the

2044
01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:43,280
top two directors in the world.
I look at him and I look at

2045
01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:46,920
Francis Lawrence that I've had a
chance to work with on multiple

2046
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:50,640
campaigns.
You know, Mark is like, I look

2047
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:55,000
at him and I look at Stanley
Kubrick style directing and has

2048
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:57,960
done some of the biggest
products in the world and he

2049
01:50:57,960 --> 01:51:02,480
brought me in on Coldplay and
I've worked with him like five

2050
01:51:02,480 --> 01:51:04,640
times.
You got Brantley Gutierrez,

2051
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:07,200
another amazing director,
Anthony Randall, Wiseman,

2052
01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:08,600
Brickman.
Yeah.

2053
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,520
David Agar, Everybody at All
Access want to thank you guys

2054
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:13,720
there.
Joe Gallagher, Joey Gallagher.

2055
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:18,040
Again, all these people have
produced product for me, you

2056
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:22,000
know, Jose Cantun and the
accurate Arthur Mayo, Scott

2057
01:51:22,000 --> 01:51:25,880
Javins, Brian Longmire, the
Gregorio family, the Lenny

2058
01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:28,640
Kravitz team.
Like I said, Bill Latsko, Donald

2059
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:31,400
Giacobelli and others in the
program.

2060
01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:32,880
His new album is pretty good, by
the way.

2061
01:51:33,480 --> 01:51:35,200
You know, I've been listening to
it.

2062
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:39,280
Yeah, that's been a weird
relationship after I did this.

2063
01:51:39,480 --> 01:51:44,040
I've been very fortunate, like I
said, with having, you know, the

2064
01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:46,040
same year I did Coldplay, Speed
of Sound.

2065
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:50,760
I also, I was nominated for an
MTV on that one, and then I also

2066
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:53,800
did MTV two.
What was the band that I did?

2067
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:55,480
Oh, Jesus.
I can't remember it, but they

2068
01:51:55,480 --> 01:52:00,080
won the video of the year that I
ended up directing that package

2069
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:02,960
with too.
So programmers Martin Phillips,

2070
01:52:03,560 --> 01:52:07,320
Ben Richards, you know, Benoit,
if you don't know Benoit, of

2071
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:10,320
course, an amazing talent.
Michelle Surratt.

2072
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:12,920
Yeah, Michelle Surratt.
Very talented.

2073
01:52:12,920 --> 01:52:15,880
Michelle worked on my last big
production, which was See You

2074
01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:18,680
Live at Coachella.
Bravery was the band.

2075
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:20,880
Bravery was the.
Band, I just looked it up in

2076
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:21,920
your.
Notes yeah.

2077
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:24,160
So that was like that was a flip
side.

2078
01:52:24,160 --> 01:52:27,320
If you look, if anybody wants to
do anything, look at Coldplay,

2079
01:52:27,320 --> 01:52:30,880
speed of sound, then take a look
at my crazy brain where I did

2080
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:34,440
all of the production design and
art direction on the bravery and

2081
01:52:34,440 --> 01:52:37,120
threw that together in like 48
hours.

2082
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:40,720
Cat W was the last one that I
wanted to say.

2083
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:42,920
And then my amazing son, Lucas
and Shane.

2084
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:47,760
Wow, that's a big list.
And my yeah, and and my

2085
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:50,960
significant other right now,
Jordi Katon, yeah.

2086
01:52:51,320 --> 01:52:55,080
So for her to put up with me and
us in this business, they're

2087
01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:56,480
all.
Special ladies putting up with

2088
01:52:56,480 --> 01:52:57,480
us that's.
For sure.

2089
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:00,440
Yeah, You've been through it.
I have.

2090
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:04,400
Michelle, thank you very much.
No, thank you, and let's stay in

2091
01:53:04,400 --> 01:53:06,080
touch.
Yeah, buddy, you take care of

2092
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:07,280
yourself.
Thanks for the time.

2093
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:39,640
None.