#248 - Phay MacMahon

0:01 Well, hello and thanks again for coming. I appreciate you being here today is going to be a lot of fun. Great guest as always. I think all of our guests are excellent, but today is one of those ones that you really look forward to Mr. Faye McMahon, famous Faye McMahon. And so, yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun and and I'm kind of excited about it and looking forward to this chat as I do with so many people who come on this podcast. So as you're listening to this, this is where it gets weird this week, which is actually next week for me because I'm recording this on June 5th, on Wednesday, June 5th. So next week as I record, this is Infocom. And so you might actually be at the show. You might be listening to this in your hotel room. Shame on you and getting ready to go over to the trade show. But I usually go.

0:55 This particular one, I'm not going to go. Often times this is one of those shows that a lot of times I get there and I wonder why the hell am I here? You know, it's it's a lot of integrators, it's a lot of AV stuff or not even AV stuff. It's a lot of like home integration, home automation, boardroom stuff. It's just a lot of gear that I don't have a lot to do with. And it's like you got a wade through, you know, 1000 people to get to the 10 that really matter to you. And so I'm not putting it down. It's an amazing show. I've I've gone to it 20 times probably in my life.

1:37 And I would probably go to it this year if I didn't have so much going on in my life. And, and there's just a lot going on. So I know a lot of people are going and a lot of you are there right now. And so, yeah, I, I hope it's a great show. I hope you all have fun and I look forward to hearing from people. Please bring me back some stories. Touring season, of course, is in full force. We're having another crazy one this year. I just read the Coldplay, just started their European Tour. Of course, Metallica and ACDC. Speaking of Europe, both of those massive stadium shows are blasting through Europe right now. Brian Hartley, we're working on getting him on to the podcast. He'll be on soon, but he's out with Five Finger Death Punch in in Europe as well. And so, yeah, lots going on in Europe, a lot of busy touring and festival season in Europe.

2:29 And that's one of the things I love about Europe, festival season. You know, there's some of these countries, like I talk a lot about the Netherlands, where of course they have, I've been told, and again, I've never actually made sure or verified or whatever, but I've been told there's 1400 festivals annually in, in the Netherlands right now, which it's a country of less than 20 million people. I mean, that is just an insane number of festivals. And you know, there are guys like Steve Warren and, and women who spend their life going to festivals and God bless them. You know, I, I love that. I wish I still liked it because I loved it when I was a kid, but I don't like it now.

3:11 So yeah, you know, Europe's booming. Except, you know, I've talked about it before, but I've been reading about people being out of work in Europe and lots of touring people, lots of stage hands who are having shows cancel and have no other work and they're starting to be worried again. So that's interesting. You know, it's, it's terrible, but it's interesting because it's not what I'm seeing on the grand scale. You know, it's, it's like you hear about ACDC packing stadiums and Metallica packing stadiums and Beyoncé and all of these big artists packing stadiums, Taylor Swift, of course. But then, you know, there's some other stuff going on.

3:52 And, you know, I don't know if if you've read about all these cancellations and I say all these, I mean, there's, there's two that people are talking about a lot. Of course, Jlo and The Black Keys are the two that I've read a lot of press on. And I'm hearing a lot of other adjustments though. And of course, Jlo and Black Keys, well, different situations. You know, Jlo is trying to, I think, go out there and present this as she wants to spend more time with her family. In fact, that's exactly how she's gone out and talked about it. You know, I just need to focus on family right now. But the reality is it wasn't selling. And so you can ask anyone who was involved in it, you can probably go to Ticketmaster and look yourself, but it wasn't selling.

4:36 There was a lot of empty venues that were being canceled. So so that is the problem with Jlo for sure. Like, I think some artists think that they can get on with their life and do whatever they're doing and then just pop in and do this sold out to her. And some will get away with it. But right now, I think you're getting back to a situation where people go to what's really authentic and what deserves their concert money. And they're avoiding the other stuff they're starting to anyways. So we're, you know, you used to see that any old band could kind of go out and tour and fill fill the venue. But right now it's getting back to some version of of normalcy where people are tightening their belts a little bit again, tightening, tightening their purse strings and, and really focusing those entertainment dollars on stuff that they really want to see. And so we'll see how that plays out. Black Keys, I think is a different situation. I think Black Keys in this country is a theater act, a really, really good theater act.

5:39 And, you know, they had a very successful tour of theaters in, in I think Europe and the UK. Again, you know, don't take my word for this, Go read about it. I'm not sure of the facts on all of this stuff, but from what I've read, they did really, really well in, in some really great theaters over in Europe and came here and we're expecting to to have a successful arena tour. And this is an interesting one for me because I love the band. I think they're an incredible band. You know, I know the one guy in the band keeps getting some bad press on on his attitude or whatever. I don't care. You know, it's not like every musician or every artist out there is, is, you know, a perfect person or somebody that you'd want to spend time with or, or have your kids follower or whatever. I don't care about that.

6:26 Good songs, bad songs, good band, bad band. I don't care about everything else. But, you know, I, I just think that it was a, you know, they should have really stuck to, to theaters. They were doing really well in theaters and people were loving it. Like it's personally, I would rather see a band I really want to see in a smaller venue. I've said this ever since the start of this mayhem after the pandemic. I don't want to see rock bands that I really like and really want to see. I don't want to go see him in a stadium. I don't want to be, you know, 250 yards away from them going well, you know, are they over there? You know, is there something going on? I mean, if I'm going to watch it on a screen, I'll watch it at home on, on, you know, my 80 inch television on YouTube, not on a screen that's, you know, 200 yards away.

7:16 So that's just me. You know, I, I realize I'm probably getting older now and and I don't have the same desires and thoughts to be with 80,000 friends that I used to be. But the other thing I'm even hearing about those stadium shows is that we're starting to run into a problem where some of them like they're sort of a break even point for everyone for, for Live Nation who may own the venue or for for everyone involved, somewhere around 32,000 people or something like that where they can be really successful. Anything over that and they start losing money below that or not making a lot of sense below that. And some of them are not doing much better than that at this point.

7:56 And you know, again, I don't want to pick on anybody. You know, there's, there are some tours or packages that are out there playing stadiums that probably won't be playing stadiums much longer. So, yeah, I mean, I read this stuff and I pay attention to this stuff not because I want something to complain about, but because I am paying attention for our industry. I'm having great conversations with very high level people in our industry about these things, talking about where's it all going? You know, what's going to happen next spring, what's going to happen next summer, what's going to happen for shed tours this year? What, you know, what's it all doing and what's that going to mean from an equipment standpoint, from an asset standpoint, you know, what companies are going to be successful?

8:38 Are we going to start seeing companies rolling up again and being acquired or are we going to see companies having some problems? So, you know, it's all, it keeps me curious and it keeps me asking a lot of questions and paying a lot of attention to this stuff. So I, I had a really cool conversation recently, just, I think it was this week with Gilmore, who if you're Canadian or if you're old like me, you'll probably remember an amazing band from the 80s and 90s called Triumph. And you know, I remember when I first heard Triumph, I was in my probably early to mid teens and they blew me away.

9:19 I was just like, wow. And not only heard them, but saw them. I saw them live so many times. And, you know, they were just a band that I really loved, partly because they were a three piece band that just made so much noise, but also because they were so committed to the show. Like they were using pyro when nobody else was using pyro. They were using, you know, big everything when nobody else was doing that stuff. They had bigger light shows, more lights, just thousands of Chrome Park Hands and stuff like that. And so I was talking with Gilmore this week and I do a bunch of business with Gil and we've become friends over the last 10 years or whatever. And so we talked quite often and I was talking to him this week and he said he's got something that he's planning for 2025.

10:03 And I'm not going to talk a lot about what that is. But it's around their 50th anniversary. Again, like a lot of bands that started in the 70s, they're hitting A50 year anniversary this year or next year actually. And but he's working on something and it's going to happen next year, and it's something really cool and very different, very unique. And I can't really talk much more about that because he told me in confidence. But Gil has agreed. Gilmore again, the drummer, singer, founder of Triumph and also owner of Metalworks Studios and Metalworks Sound and Lighting or Metalworks Productions or whatever they're called up in Canada.

10:49 Metalworks Studios, by the way. Again, I might be stepping out of line and saying the wrong thing, but I know they did some Blake Blake Drake albums in there and some I know they did at least one metallic album. Lots and lots of bands record in that studio. It's an amazing studio. He's also got a school and he's also very involved in educating kids. And so just love talking with the guy, love having these conversations. But Gil has agreed to come on the podcast. So Gil Moore from Triumph is going to come on Geysers of Gear and he's also coming on with a well known lighting designer, Paul Dexter, who is working with Gil on this new project that's coming up. So that is being scheduled for late summer, maybe even into September based on everyone's schedules, but also based on this thing coming to fruition that they're going to come on and talk about.

11:42 So that's exciting. In other exciting news, I'm heading to Canada this week. So by the time you hear this, I'll be in my happy place up in the mountains in Canada, the Canadian Rocky Mountains. And funny story, but my son decided he wanted to drive my car up there. So, you know, every year it's like, do I rent a car? Do I borrow one from somebody? What do I do and do I buy one? And that was what I was going to do this year, but I found that you can't get anything decent for under like 30 or $40,000. And I just didn't want to do that, you know, because again, it's, it's technically a second home, right? So, so anyways, my son decided to drive my car up there, him and another couple of 20 year olds.

12:24 And well, actually he drove up with one guy and another one flew in. And so he's up there with his two buddies right now. And his whole trip up there, I mean, you know, three or four days of just lots of fun and lots of sightseeing. And they stopped in skate parks across the country. So they've been having a blast. They're having a great time. And he's sending me lots of pictures and stuff. So cool. I mean, you know, Can you imagine being 20 and somebody giving you the keys and a credit card for all the gas and hotels and food and stuff that you need and sending you on a cross country trip like that? Well, actually across two countries. So, you know, one of the funny stories was these two dodgy looking characters show up in a pretty brand new BM WX5M at the border.

13:08 And you know, we've got loads of stuff in the back, two pizza ovens, like just loads of stuff in the back of the car. And these two guys and one of them's wearing like a, a wool ski hat. And you know, Jeremy probably hasn't showered in a day or two. And you know, where you going? Canada, you know, and what are you doing up there? I don't know, just hanging out, you know, having some fun, our buddies meeting us up there too. And so of course, get out of the car. And, you know, usually, like I've driven through the border and it's just look at your passport and you go. But these two guys, they had to get out of the car and the car just got torn apart. All the stuff got taken out of it. And, you know, they got quizzed to death and stuff, but finally they let him go. So he got a good experience.

13:50 He was scared to death, of course. And then finally, I hate to admit and I hate to announce this is an announcement I don't love making, but I am becoming a real geezer this week. And so again, by the time you hear this, I will have turned 60. So that is happening on June 8th. And you know, it's weird, as you all know, and maybe some of you are young so you don't know this yet, but it happens really quickly. Like one minute you're 30 and planning your future and nothing can break you. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're you're mentoring young kids at 40. And, you know, you're, I don't feel old. You know, I don't feel old.

14:32 I like to think I don't look incredibly old, even though I got a Gray beard. I take care of myself. I'm probably healthier than I was when I was 40. But, you know, I'm turning 60 this week, so it's a weird thing. And then, of course, my good friend Craig passed away one year older than that, 61. And so, yeah, I mean, if you're listening to this and and you're my age or near my age or whatever, please just take care of yourself. Please.

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16:58 Reduce color shift and poor viewing angles as Topaz creates smooth and flawless curves that let your audience focus on the experience, not the LED screen. For more information on Topaz and other LED solutions, visit rowvisual.com. So although he needs no introduction whatsoever, Faye McMahon, also known as Famous, started his career in production management in 1976 with Bob Geldof and The Boomtown Rats. That was his first big gig, and since then he's worked with some of the biggest names in the industry, including Pink, Shakira, George Michael, Aerosmith, Def Leppard, Nicki Minaj, Ricky Martin, Garth Brooks and so on.

17:42 So many. Faye has also provided production management for corporate clients such as Volvo Ocean Race, Orange Arrows, Formula 1G, Air, Formula One, Guinness, and South African breweries. Faye has just returned from Japan with the Red Hot Chili Peppers. So we're very happy that he was able to find some time in in that schedule to talk with us. And we had the pleasure of talking with Faye. We had him on the podcast back in March of 2020, early in the pandemic, very, very early in the pandemic. That's a great episode. And and he tells his whole life story. We're not going to go into that here, but it's a good one. So please go back and check out that's episode #81 and hear how he started his career.

18:26 It's it's pretty great. So once again, please welcome Faye McMahon back onto the podcast. Hello, Faye. Hi, how are you? Do I have to call you Mr. Famous? No, nobody else does. Nobody else does. That's a good answer, So. It looks like what's that? They call me lots of things, but let's not go into that. Yeah, yeah. Well, I I promise I won't, I won't call you any of those names, but where are you? It looks like you're on a bus. I am. I'm on a Beat the Street bus here in Salt Lake City.

19:07 So we're getting ready for a show today, so yeah. And that's with the Chili Peppers. Red Hot Chili Peppers, Yeah. Nice, nice. How's that going? This is how would we see we started. We did a few shows the beginning of the year on the West Coast, I think 4 shows then with a short break and then we went to Japan, two nights at the Tokyo Dome and then back here. We started in Portland and this is the 4th show of the US. Oh, very cool. Very cool. Yeah. You're going to be here in Florida in a couple of weeks and I'm gone, I'm in. I'm going up to my house in Canada on Friday, so for the summer the.

19:48 Opposite of Snowbird. Hey, exactly. Well, no, it's, it is Snowbird. Yeah, yeah. I always refuse to call myself one, but now I truly am one because I kind of go from like June until September up there and then I run the hell out of there back to Florida, so. Yeah, we're in Canada. Do you know where Banff is? I do indeed. Beautiful. Yeah, there. Yeah. So, yeah, I've had a house for a little over 20 years, managed to hang on to it through divorce, and so I still have it. And yeah, I love it up there. It's great. Yeah. It's. Fantastic. Yeah. So thank you for doing this. First and foremost, I know you had a bit of a pain in the ass getting on 'cause it made you download Chrome, which everyone loves to do.

20:38 Exactly. Yeah, so, yeah, so sorry about that and thanks for doing this. It's always cool to check in with you because A, you're a pretty fun guy and and B, you do some really cool stuff. So, so you know, I, I was because you didn't have time to, to send us any information. Of course, most people don't. I I had to go digging and I went looking at socials and sadly most of your messages on socials are paying respect to people who are dying. Yeah. It's that time in life, you know, where we're literally losing a lot of friends as as we go along, you know? Yeah, it's very.

21:20 Very sad. Yeah, I mean, it's it really is. And, you know, I turned 60 this week and I noticed obviously that, you know, once I hit 50, you started going. Well, wait a SEC. People seem to be dying quicker. There must be something going on. There's a pandemic or something. But no, it's just, it's my age. It's not theirs. It's like, it's because more of my friends are older now. So. But yeah, just last week, I don't know if you knew Craig Burrows from High End Systems and Roby and stuff. Yeah, yeah, he passed away last week. And so I'm going to that tomorrow in Austin and then headed to my house on on Friday. So yeah, it's it sucks. It's a terrible thing. And I was just with him a couple weeks ago at F1. Wow with Craig.

22:05 So yeah, it's a drag. Absolutely. But we got to make most of it you. Know I know, I know well. And all you can do is try your best to stay healthy. You know, drink healthy beer. Yeah. Do you still have the the taps? Oh yeah. Oh. Absolutely, yeah. What's your bar called again? Your pub, right? The Doghouse. Exactly. Yeah, I remember you telling me about that last time. That's hilarious. And so you get a lot of guests, right? Like when people are touring through Ireland. Yeah, they, they come out and, you know, like they, they'll let me know that they're in town and they'll pop out and have a few pints and a bit of a laugh, you know?

22:46 Yeah. So it's become quite the place, you know. Yeah, that is awesome. That's so cool. Yeah, that's very cool. So, Chili Peppers, how's it doing? It's great. It's it's mental. It's like we're doing. They decided to downsize to, to amphitheaters, which is a bit of a strange statement, you know? Yeah. Yeah, isn't it? But it's every night, every ticket sold, it's completely sold out. It's like it's crazy, you know, it's. Really smart though, because actually one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is exactly this topic where, you know, everyone thinks they should be playing in stadiums and and every theater act thinks they should be playing in arenas.

23:31 And, you know, not only is is the math not working very well, but, you know, it's just not creating a very pleasant experience. I think even for the fans, you know, the band is looking out at some empty seats and and the fans are sitting a lot further away than they probably need to be. Yeah, I mean, you know, the the interesting thing about this is when you look at this and you look at like every single seat is gone, every tickets gone and there's a huge demand for it. So if you look at some baseball stadiums, you know, they like they hold, you know, some of them hold 5060 thousand, but you know, a lot of them hold sort of 30,000. You know, so to do a baseball stadium, obviously we've got to bring in a stage.

24:17 We've got to bring in, you know, ground cover and delay towers, you know, all the infrastructure, you know. Yeah. So, you know, when you when you do all that, like when you look at the cost of all that, the cost is huge. Yeah. So I think, you know, with Live Nation doing this, they own all the amphitheaters. Yeah, everything's here. You know, it's all in place. So all that cost is gone. Yeah. And everybody's closer. Well, and you know, when you're talking about a baseball stadium, going from, you know, 18 or 17,000 in arena to 30,000 in a baseball stadium, probably the net gain isn't that much when you look at all the expenses, right?

24:58 Exactly, you know, like when you do stuff like that and, and like, you know, the thing here is like that. It's, it's already set up every, you know, the whole thing is, is set up really well. As we say, everybody's closer, you know, and it's it's, you know, it's been really like you look at the gorge. We did the gorge the other day. Like that's 22,000 people. Yeah, that's a lot of people. You. Know. Yes, it is. Yeah. And what they're doing here is they're not playing the major cities. They're going to the, you know, the the secondary cities that they wouldn't be able to do with a baseball stadium. Yeah, yeah. So it's quite clever, I think you know. Are they doing any multi night? Toronto.

25:41 We do. We do two nights in Toronto, but that's the only one that we're really doing. You know, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so. That's, that's great. That's fantastic. You know, it's like one of the ones I think that everybody's talking about is The Black Keys, who, you know, I think they had a pretty successful theater run in in Europe and then came over here and, and the arenas weren't selling real well. Yeah, I I did The Black Keys a couple of years ago and it was great. And again, we did. We did because the last time I think we spoke, I was with Ricky Martin down in South America doing savings and all that, you know. And then after that, I went to The Black Keys, Chris Kansey called me and said, look, you know, would be interested in this.

26:26 And I said sure. And it was eight trucks around amphitheaters, and they did great business. You know. But then we did a tour in Europe and again, they did phenomenal business, you know, absolutely right the way through. And then I then left to go back to aerospace and whatever. And, you know, a new team took over and they just did that. That's run in Europe and in the UK and Europe or whatever. And apparently it was great. Yeah. But they put the tickets on sale here and for whatever reason, it just. Yeah, you know, it's I didn't. But that's a great band. So it's not like the yeah, it's not like the product sucks, you know? Productism.

27:07 And, you know, people used to promoters will say to me, you know, like, so when when you'd be advancing, you know, they say, do you need any gases? Is there pyro? And I say, you know, I would say, look, this is a concept. I'm not sure if it'll ever catch on. There is no pyro. There is no gases. There is no cryo. There's no special effects. There's no confetti. I said there's no Pro Tools. I said this is a plan that I should just plug in and play. As I say, it's a concept. I don't think it'll ever catch on. That is so cool. That is awesome, I love that. They really are. They, they were incredible. Like, I mean, you know Dan the singer, you know, he plugs in. In fact, there is nobody on stage. There is no wireless on stage.

27:48 Everybody plugs straight in. Really. Yeah, that's interesting. Very, very old fashioned, you know. Yeah, I love their music. I love that band. They're a great band and. They're funny, you know, like, I mean that some of their videos and stuff are very. Funny. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I mean, I don't know them, obviously, I've never worked for them, but I, I've heard them like on I heard them on Joe Rogan. I heard them on a couple podcasts and stuff and they sound like hilarious guys and smart guys too. Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I can honestly say I was there, well, probably about a year and a half, and I never, ever got asked to go to the dressing room once. There was never a complaint. Really. They just went out, they did the gig, they were happy. If they had, you know, a minor sound issue or something like that, they'd speak to the monitor guy or they'd speak to their tech.

28:35 And I was just never, you know, like with other acts, you're dragged in and you know what happened here and you know, you get, it's like you're almost court martialed, you know, like it's like. Yeah. It was just very, very, they were really good, great to work with and very, very pleasant, you know? Yeah, well, and it's funny because when you read online, I don't know, I think it's the singer who's always sort of vilified for being a Dick to work with or whatever. And, and then I talked to people who've worked with them and they say the opposite. So they're getting a bad rap for being, you know, prima donnas or something, 'cause it, it just doesn't seem to be true. You know, I, as I say, I never experienced any of that. And the only thing I will say is that they're very, very, very specific about their sound and about their setup and, but most fans are most.

29:24 Fans are why wouldn't you? Not, you know, they have a right to be, you know, it's like it's their image, it's their sound. They have an absolute right to be, you know. Yeah, yeah. We're there to make sure that it happens for them, you know? Yeah, so I read something the other day when I again, I was just searching around trying to find some notes and some what have you been up to and stuff. And I don't remember that we talked about this when you were on the podcast 'cause I think you were on in March of 2020. So you were on I think right when it all when shit hit the fan. And I just read that a. Few days later. Yeah.

30:04 Oh, it was after that that shit hit the fan. Oh, so you were still so because I just read a funny story or not funny. I I just read a story that you were in Mexico with Ricky Martin and. And you and Guns and Roses were both in Mexico and were like two of the last acts to go home, basically. Yeah, like. You know which one of us will switch out the lights. You know as we. Yeah, what a weird time. It's hard to think back of all of that stuff, you know, 'cause it was just so corny, like the whole thing was just what is going on. Yeah, it was bizarre like, you know, because we're. But the fact that we were down there, we didn't really, we didn't think about it so much, you know, we weren't hearing it as much, you know. Yeah.

30:49 And because we came from we were sorry. Hang on a second radio there. Sorry about that. It's. All good. Yeah, we, we weren't hearing that much about it, you know, And the next thing is, and we were doing, I think we were coming out of one of ours or month of a day or something like that. And, you know, we had Mike down from sound moves at the time or Rocket, I can't remember was Rocket or sound moves by then. But and, you know, he was saying, you know, what was going on in the States and, you know, we were like, really. And so we were doing the air freight out of the air and not really thinking much about it, you know, And once we'd finished the palletizing and everything, you know, we'd always get a few cases of beer for the guys that are doing it. And he turns up with Corona, you know, So we all had a great laugh about that.

31:47 Yeah, that's hilarious. We flew from there to Mexico and we set up. That was the day that we spoke and whatever. And we went and we did two more shows and it was done. It was literally we were set up. I got a call about 4:00 in the evening and from management saying take it all out, you're going home. Wow, that is just crazy. That's crazy. Well, and it's weird. I I didn't realize that I had talked to you just a couple days before that went down. So I hope you, I hope you didn't blame me, Faye. No, not at all. No. OK, good. So. Yeah, it was a it was a, you know, just one of those things where, you know, what the heck going on and I don't think all got out of there and, you know, probably on some of the last flights to get out of Mexico, you know.

32:37 Yeah, managed to. Get home. Yeah, it's, it's it was a crazy time for sure. And then, so when, when did you start back up again? We started back up with Ricky again in what was the the, you know, when everything started to open, we started up. We were one of the first arena tours that it was Ricky and Enrique. Yeah, yeah, I remember it. Yeah. So that was probably early 21. Yeah, it was, I think it was September 21. Oh, OK. And we were the first. We were one of the first arena tours. Yeah, there was people going out in amphitheaters and stuff, but we were one of the first arena ones.

33:19 Drive ins. The end of drive ins all the. Parking. Lots. And so we were down on that and I always remember the conversations that are people saying how do we manage it, how do we manage it, etcetera. And, you know, we came up with the conclusion that, look, every, every, every state has its own regulations and its own outlook on it. Every city has its own regulations, its own outlook on it, and every venue will have its own regulations and outlook on it. So we decided that what we would do is just, you know, concentrate on backstage and, you know, make sure everybody wore masks and, you know, keep the whole thing down, right? Turns out that we had one guy right at the beginning, he called me and he says I'm not feeling well. I'm in the hotel and this was in Vegas. We were rehearsing at The MGM and we were staying there. So I said, OK, stay in your room, we'll send over a kid to you.

34:12 He tested positive. He stayed there for 10 days. Luckily enough, we were in Vegas, so there was many people there, and Wiseman was supplying all the video gear. So he basically said, look, you know, we'll find people. And what we did was we found engineers. It was an engineer. We found an engineer that was off each night to cover during the rehearsals. Yeah. And the first show and he, he then did his 10 days, flew to Chicago and he was he was good to go for the second show. And that was it. No, no other illnesses or anything. Oh wow, yeah, the whole thing we really did. And what we said was like, guys, anyone go in front of house, wear a mask, do all the stuff. We can't control the audience, but Ricky even had it that if the, you know, anyone that wasn't singing on stage wore a mask.

35:03 OK. Was really, really strict on us, you know, that was the only case we had the entire time. Wow, that's impressive. Yeah, it was really good. I, you know, some of the block, I'm sure. But you know what we said to people was look, go out in groups and eat outdoors, drink outdoors. Luckily enough, the weather was good. Yeah. And I know you want to see your friends on other tours. Get them to meet you there and sit at another table. Do not run up hugging them and all that you know. And. And, you know, I think everybody did us and we got through it. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's good. I think overall we all got through it for the most part, right?

35:44 Like somehow, miraculously we survived as an industry too, which is wasn't always a given. You know, it was like, Jesus, what's going to happen? Yeah, exactly. And there was so many people against, you know, vaccination and all that. And you know, it was, you know, that was their choice. You know, I, I had one guy who I said, look, you know, this is the tour policy. And he went, I ain't, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not getting the vaccine. I said, well, look, that's, that's your choice, is that. But you know, he says I'm not putting that shit in my body. I said, well, I said I've known you for quite some time, you put your body in, but I don't think the vaccine is going to harm. You, me and Wiseman had that conversation, by the way. And and he's like, you know, who am I to be saying I'm not putting something in my body, you know? Yeah.

36:34 So no, it's it's pretty funny. But yeah, you know, and since then, like what's been so, I mean, times have shifted so much since those early days in 21 post COVID, right? So what has been some of the biggest challenges that you've had moving these these shows around? You know, there's freight, there's supply chain, there's all of those things, people. What's been the greatest problem? I think crew, you know, because we lost, we lost, you know, we, you know, everybody that we talked to, we reckon we lost probably about 30% of our, you know, of our people and which is a huge amount.

37:15 So there's a lot of retraining and you know, like many different tours. And it wasn't just one vendor. Every vendor had it, you know, no matter who you spoke to, they were all saying the same thing. You know, it's like, it's just, it's hard to get people and the industry isn't the same as it used to be anyway. It's not, as you know, I mean, back in the day, we all thought it was glamorous, and it was. It was a lot of fun, you know, But it's a business now and it's not as glamorous as it used to be. Yeah. Don't want to leave home, you know? Yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it. Gypsies, tramps and thieves. And we just all laughed and went and did it, you know? Yeah. Whereas the younger people, they're not really that sure that they want to do that, you know?

37:59 Yeah, well, and, and it's interesting, you know, I talk to people about this all the time, but, you know, people think that it's still a gypsies, tramps and thieves industry and it's not a real job and they can't make real money and that kind of thing. But, you know, you can go out on a tour and and make a decent income now, especially if you don't have, you know, 13 college degrees or whatever. But, you know, it's it can be a very good life, you know. And so, yeah, I think there's there needs to be some better marketing perhaps. And I talk to people about that all the time. But yeah, so. Yeah. But you know, I mean vendors, you know, like vendors come back pretty well, you know, I mean, we lost, you know, a few, but not not too many, you know.

38:50 But you know, they come back quite well and they managed to, you know, as best they could. So, you know, hats off to the mall, like, I mean, freight lighting, you know, video, the whole lot. Like everybody come back into it and got it together, you know? And they're all thriving now. You know, it's crazy how well the industry has done through this, you know, because like I somehow became sort of the, the sounding board or whatever for so many of these people during COVID. I was doing this weekly zoom call for everyone and, and people were dropping in and just depressed and ready to close their businesses. And some were practically suicidal.

39:30 And you know, it, it was, it was desperate times for some people. Like, and I'd get private calls from people saying, I don't know what to do. I'm about to lose my house, I'm about to lose my wife. I'm, you know, losing everything my business that I've built for 25 years. And like a couple of them I helped, you know, there's one in particular, I won't mention names, but you know, the bank was ready to take the founders homes and the bank were just being Dicks basically like it, it wasn't even that they'd missed payments. It was on covenants. You know, it was just a stupid thing. And I ended up helping them sell their company and so. You know, they had, they had personal guarantees on all the debt and, and it was, you know, 4 or $5,000,000 as I recall.

40:16 And you know, they were going to lose their homes, they were going to lose everything, their business, their livelihoods. And we ended up helping them sell their, their business and they're now, you know, doing other things and they've got some money in their pockets and they're happy. So, but yeah, it was, it was tough times. Well, you know, I mean, even just as I say, I'm sitting here on the Beat the Street bus, like, I mean, York started Beat the Street right before the pandemic. Yeah, that's tough, man. Off to him for getting through it, you know? Yeah, yeah. He built these buses and they just sat. Yeah, Yeah. Well, and I would assume that you've got some debt that you're now carrying and the bank expects to get paid back. They don't care.

40:59 And yeah, so that was probably really hard times for a minute. And you know, knowing the rates for buses coming out of COVID. He's doing OK now. He can't. He can't build them quick enough now. That's awesome. That's awesome. And you know, it's like, you know, the same thing with trucking companies and stuff, you know, like, I mean, they, it was, it was tough times for them, you know, because like all that we've been offered was like, you know, Amazon work and all that, which didn't. And you know, this good friend of mine in Ireland, Frank McGinnis, and he is McGinnis Trucking. He he pretty much mothballed most of it. He wouldn't do those. He wouldn't do those things because as he says, you know, you have a blow out of the tire and there's your profit come for that, for that job, you know? So yeah, he said he was gone.

41:46 He managed to keep his drivers on and he mothballed most of us and just did some very, very, you know, work that he had other work for Intel or something like that, and he managed to get through it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I read, maybe it was the same article where I read the other stuff, but I read that you, you actually took on some, some driving opportunities and you know, just whatever, just to keep the Guinness pumps flowing, I guess. It was just to keep my mind active, you know, I mean, I, I, you know, I, I drove trucks years and years ago, you know, I, I, I drove my first one illegally, obviously, you know, as you do at that age and. For we all did, yeah. Edwin Shearley, semi and the driver happened to have too many Guinness in Dublin one time and he got locked up. So we're sitting there thinking, how the hell are we going to do this?

42:39 Nice. Well, I drove around the parking lot at the TV studio the other day. I think I can handle it. So I jumped in the truck and I drove it from Dublin to Belfast, Oh. My goodness. Yes, Edwin and Roy Lamb come up to see me. You know they said. You know, they said, what do you you know what? What made you do that? And I said, well, I said, we just needed to get it here, you know, And I said it was like, you know, the job's done. You know, the gig's done everything. Everybody should be happy. Get your license and, you know, and and we'll insure you because, you know, you'll do this again. Insure until I'm 25. And they said, what? We'll figure that out. I said, OK, but look, you know, I'm going to be 21 in a few weeks. I said, I'll get it down. And they looked at each other and they looked at me and they went, you're not 21.

43:21 And I went, why? They said, you've been driving our bobtails around Europe for the last two years. And I said, what's wrong with that is they said you weren't insured. I said that was in the past, don't worry about it. Well, they had a point, and so did you. We're still here, but I learned to drive trucks and I did a couple of Queen tours as a truck driver, you know, and I did this. Really. There was a truck driver? Yeah. Yeah. Great. I read I read another thing where you you had a snapped throttle cable. Oh, with Jake. Yeah. Jake Berry and myself. Yeah, we were, we were out on the, in fact, it was the first Def Leppard tour in the UK, Little Theatre tour. And Jake was the production manager and I was the lighting designer.

44:10 So our truck driver had burned her, burned her hand. It was Sandy from Trans Am. She she had burned her hand. So her brother drove the semi and we said we'd drive the bobtail to get. So we drove overnight from St. Austell and we stopped at Jake's mom's house for tea on the way, like at 4:00 in the morning, you know? As you do, yeah. Next thing any added the throttle cable snapped so we got under us and we poked it up through where the gear leakage was and we got an old rag and held around it. So basically I would steer and change gears and Jacob, you know, Jake would literally pull the throttle and then we'd swap over, you know, and.

44:53 When his arm got tired. Yeah. And when you get tired, then, you know, you'd suddenly have, you know, like, you know, whoever's on the throttle will be sort of falling asleep, you know, and the truck flying. Yeah. Go, let go. Let go on a bloody dropper. Yeah, Oh my God. But we. Got there anyway, and yeah, some some good laughs, you know? Well, it, it reminds me of one time when I was a kid and my friend had this like boogie van thing. You know, like in, in the US in the, in the 70s, we would buy these like 60s Ford or Chevy vans and they'd have the little, the little like teardrop sort of window things at the back and big fat tires and stuff and a big sound system. So he had one of those.

45:44 And one night we were out drinking and of course went to drive home, as you do, and he only had reverse, None of the other gears would work. And so we drove from one side of Calgary to the other side of Calgary with him drunk in reverse. And so I'm hanging out the window going little bit left. No, no, my left, not your left. No, a little bit right. You know, And I mean, it was how we survived that and how he didn't go to jail, I have no idea. The the COVID thing, you know, what happened there was, was the, the movies come back in, in Ireland, you know. And. So I only live 500 yards from the main studio, from Ardmore Studios. And they were looking for people to drive because what would happen is they would bring over, say, 40 trucks, you know, from the UK, and they'd leave five people there and they'd just get local drivers to move them at night. So it was that The Last Duel, which was Matt Damon and Ridley Scott, he produced or whatever, you know. Yeah, it was that one.

46:46 And they had a lot of trucks. So many of what they did was they they hired Eddie Foster, who was Eddie owns a big surface in Ireland, you know, so they they hired him to do all the, you know, to move the trucks. So Eddie phones read like last last minute and he says, look, I'm short of driver and I said, I don't know. And he says you yet, you know, come up and do it. And I said, I haven't driven for a while. He says, don't worry, He says we'll not the cobwebs off. You know, he, I go up and I spot this tractor trailer and it was, you know, a Mercedes or something. That's a perfect one there for me anyway. Yeah, yeah. Hang on, hang on. So he's talking to the transport manager. Transport managers.

47:28 Just there's one up the back of the house and it's. It was really awkward to get in. So you need someone good to get it out. He turns and he goes famous. That's yours. I want you asshole. I didn't, but I couldn't find a handbrake. I couldn't find anything on it. I'd never driven a Mercedes before. I was all over the place, but I come out sweating buckets. But I got it out of there and headed down the road and and I really, I enjoyed it. You know, I had a good laugh doing it. He said, you know, he calls me. Then a couple of days later, he says, look, they want us to do some more. And I said, what's this? I said, you know, fastest driving agency or something. And he said, yeah, so we got known as the FDA fastest driving agency.

48:09 But it was all guys like Andrew Barn, You know, he said he's a music, he's in the music industry. He has, you know, he had his license and Niall Walsh, who has his own company over there moving stuff, you know, Niall Anto, Eddie, myself, you know, it was a lot of people from the music industry, you know. Yeah. And so we got pretty well known and we got to know, you know, the slide outs on the, on the dressing room trailers and all that. So instead of like, you know, standing around waiting for everything, we just got stuck in. So every, all the teams wanted us, you know, and you'd go out at 5:00 at night and you'd be home by 10. That's fantastic.

48:49 Also, they, they do a wrap and we'd take the stuff to the next location then head home. But it was quite fun. But we went down, we had to go down to where was it down to the Canary Islands. One time they have some stuff down there. So we had to bring it back from there and there was 16 trucks. So they, they flew us down and we had to go from Forte Ventura to Gran Gran Canaria and then Gran Canaria to Spain and then drive up through Spain and then across the Ireland. So that was an interesting one because we had stowaways and everything, you know, coming out of Gran Canaria. Very, very interesting.

49:29 You know, it was horrible to see because like they were hiding in generators, everything. It was a it was, it was an experience that I. Why is that? Just because they needed to get out of there or? Yeah, well, it's what they do is they'd come across from Morocco and stuff and they'd, you know, get on folks there and try and get it, you know, get to Europe, you know, for a better life. And they were, you know, they were like sort of 1920 year olds. It was horrible, you know, and like they had nothing. They had little tiny little bags. That was their existence. It was, it was an eye opener. You know, that's rough. Yeah, that's rough. It was one in because I had a generator with a dressing room behind us. And now I said check your generator.

50:10 I said that's too small and he said check it. So we opened it up and there was a guy lying on top of the engine. Oh my God, this. Was about to do a 32 hour journey on a ferry. He would have died. Wow, you know. Wow. Found them, you know. That is incredible. Yeah, it was. It was horrible, you know? Well, it just tells you how desperate they are I guess, right? It was 11/11 in total were taken off our vehicles. Yeah, Jesus. I mean, it reminds me of that, that crazy image that you saw when The Jets were trying to take off from Afghanistan and people were like hanging on to the wings or the wheels or anything. You know you that's not going to end well. But, you know, and like, these kids were desperate.

50:52 They, they were obviously leaving their family behind them. They were leaving everything and, you know, for. And they were willing to do this to get something better out of life, you know? Yeah. You know, I live here in South Florida and I remember when I first moved here, dumb kid from Canada and seeing these people coming in on like inner tubes from Cuba, you know, or, or like just these, these boats that they'd kind of made out of four logs that they tied together or whatever, right? Like you're just not going to make it, you know? And the very few who do are pretty beat up by the time they get here. You know it's but it it's just the conditions must be that bad that you're willing to chance it, I guess.

51:35 Yeah, it's unreal. Yeah, So you're going back out on on peace out, right? Yeah, Yeah, we're. We rehearsed that last year. We were in Rockland for three weeks. We rehearsed it and we got three shows in and then Steven lost his voice, you know? Yeah, horrible. You know, because everybody got like a month, month and a half out of them. That was it. And we, we had to quit, you know. You know, Steven Tyler is, is like, I'm not a fan of some of the bands that are sort of trying to prolong their careers, you know, especially singers who Can't Sing anymore. And Steven Tyler is not that guy. Like Steven Tyler to me is a stud. Like, he's a rock star.

52:24 He's singing so well, he still has the hair and the the bandanas hanging off and scarves and stuff, and he looks like a rock star and he's 76 years old. Yeah, he's, you know, he was like, I'm not. He was amazing. He really was. And yeah, the best frontman out there. Yeah. He's hilarious and he's Yeah, he is when you, when you, you know, if you look up rock star in the dictionary. It's him, Yeah. It's him. Him and Mick Jagger. I mean, Jesus, Mick Jagger. Same thing at 80 years old I'm. Running around like. A like a running, like sprinting out into the audience, you know, watching video of him is just blowing me away, you know, because again, I'm turning 60 this week and I'm thinking, Oh my God, it's over. I'm done.

53:14 But I watch him sprinting across the stage or out into the audience and I'm like, OK, I got some time left. Yes. You know. Steven's the same, like he's up and down that stage, you know? It's it's, he's so athletic, it's unreal, you know? Yeah, yeah, I mean it. It really is. I, you know, I know you probably can't say anything, but I just hope that he's able to hold it together, you know? I hope that. And I'm sure you're circling dates and going, come on, make it, you know? We're all hoping, you know, it's that, yeah. Great. Song now look, I mean it it it looked great. It sounded great and you know it was it was a great team out there.

53:56 It was it's all at one end, but it's sold 360 and it's like it's it's a big show. It was 187 rigging points and a lot of motion control from Tate, and it was Cosmo, you know, he designed a lot, Yeah. It's a. Real rock it, you know, because to do something you know in in a sort of a in in the round situation to make it look like a rock show is difficult, you know, difficult. But Cosmo did it. He really did, it looked. For me, you're talking about the what was it Finley? Not yeah, Finley Park. No, no, no.

54:37 About the actual the touring, yeah, the touring 1. So is the touring design much different than the the the 11 off that you did? Yeah, it's it's literally the touring, the touring design. It's like a triangle at one end of the arena. So it's a big triangular and it's like the video walls are up top. So there's like 3, three video walls in a big triangle. And then the lighting rig sits up within the video walls. Oh, OK, so interesting. Yeah, it's really, really interesting. And then he has, you know, all the processes are on motion control. He's got the big icon that they used in Fenway and whatever, you know, yeah, moves. It's just, it's a really, really clever show, you know? Yeah, I really, really hope to see it. I hope they hold it together because obviously if, if they have to end it again, you know, you're just, you're getting closer and closer to not being able to go out and do it properly, you know, and as we age, obviously. And you know, they were playing so well. Yeah, yeah.

55:46 Playing well, it was, it was just so sad. We we just couldn't believe it. You know, we thought when it happened, at first we thought, OK, you know, we're going to we're going to just cancel to Ronald maybe and maybe, maybe we'll cancel a week. Yeah. And and that was it, you know, so we literally just sent all the trucks to storage and stuff, you know, because we in just like a week from now, we'll be or 10 days, we'll be back on the road you. Know right? And then word come back that it was a lot worse than anybody expected. Yeah, yeah. Well, good luck with that because you know, I'm sure it's it's going to capture a big part of your calendar too. And it goes. September through the March, you know. Yeah, I know for Cosmo, it's been tough too. You know, I've been talking to him because, you know, it was so weird because going through COVID when you know, like he has all these old artists, you know, he's got he's got Judas Priest and ACDC and and Aerosmith and all these bands were like, Oh no, we're going to be careful, you know? And so it they were the last ones to go back out, right? And then I said, everyone said, I think Cosmo, you know they're all going to go out at the same time, right? And but.

56:57 It it worked out for him, you know, like I mean. It really did. He did that now, he did Aerosmith. Then he went to priest and priest he had to leave to go to ACDC. ACDC finishes and Aerosmith starts. I know, it's amazing, isn't it? Like it's almost too good to be true. That's same here how the Chili's finish and Eros would start. You know, that's amazing. Yeah. Faye, did you see any of the Judas Priest states? I didn't, unfortunately. You know, I don't know if you're a fan or ever have been or anything, but I was always growing up. I was a Judas Priest fan. I'll tell you what, that band sounds as good now as they did friggin 3540 years ago.

57:41 Well, we when, when we come over originally with Def Leppard in 1980, we, we did a few shows with Pat Travers along the along the West Coast and then we joined it was Judas Priest, Scorpions and Def Leppard. I remember that, yeah. Yeah, I remember that and it's great. It was just a great show every night, you know? But yeah, it's like, you know, a lot of these rock bands like, I mean, it's, you know, Aerosmith, ACDC, you know, Priest Leopard, they've all sort of, they're like a good wine. They've matured with age, you know? Yeah, a lot of them, you know, there's a few of them definitely have, you know, and those they have, you know. Well, I mean, yeah, Def Leppard's another one where, you know, I think I saw them, I don't know, before the stadium tour, like two or three years ago, and they were as good as I'd ever heard them. Yeah.

58:31 Yeah, they were really, really good. Joe Elliott could still sing. He sounded pretty good and fooled you on the parts that he couldn't sing anymore. And yeah, I mean, they were fantastic. Were you working with Def Leppard when they did the in the round thing like back in the 80s or whatever? Oh, yeah. Hysteria. Yeah, I was the lighting designer on that. Were you? Yeah. That was such a cool show. I saw it at the, I don't remember, I think it was the Saddle Dome in Calgary. It was in Calgary that I saw it, but I I think it was the Saddle Dome. It was after the corral. Saddle Dome. Yeah, yeah. Which is a shit venue, by the way, as I know, you know, you can do whatever you want, but don't hang anything.

59:12 I know. Yeah, that's crazy. But but that was such a cool show. It was a it was just a fantastic design. It was maybe yes was the first in the round that I saw, but that had to be the second or third. It was right up in the top of that list and in. Stage. That was Michael Tate. Mickey Tate designed that. Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that taste, you know, that Mickey designed that. And, you know, he was, yes, his lighting designer. And he came to the States. He met Roy and Jean Claire in in in Australia and he came to the States. And that's how he ended up in, in Lititz.

59:53 And he started a lighting company. So he built his own lighting desk and he had his own lighting company. And first time I went to Litis was in 1982 because I was the lighting designer on Olivia Newton John. Supplying the lighting and Claire, of course we're supplying the PA system. And you know, you say to people now you know Tate lighting and they look at you like you've 2 heads, you know? No, no, no, it was a lighting copy in the beginning. Yeah, but did you ever think that they were going to get as massive as they are, like both Tate and Claire? It's. Unreal. It's you know, the whole lit of situation is. Incredible. It's nuts. It's it's amazing. Like I remember being in Lititz before Rock Lititz, you know, Troy, Troy Claire was showing me the the drawings and everything of what they were proposing, you know, and I remember thinking, you know, that's it looks amazing. But will it ever happen?

1:00:49 Yeah. Did it happen, You know? Man has it ever and it it just ain't stopping. Like they just keep getting bigger and bigger, same with Claire. Yeah, it's, it's incredible, you know, but but they're, they're great companies, you know. They're, yeah, they're. They're terrific, you know, so. I mean, if they were terrible companies and, and you know, you hated them or whatever, then you'd be like, they're not going to grow much bigger. But they just keep doing everything right. Like what are you going to do? You can't, you can't, you know, go against them or anything because they're just, they're nice people and they're good companies. So hey, good on them. Make it still, you know, like we were there during rehearsals and I think I was in, it was the 2nd day I went down to per diem in the in the hotel, you know, and I was standing there having a glass of wine with some people and next thing in walks Mr. Tate himself. Like, as funny as ever, you know? Yeah, yeah.

1:01:43 He come around most nights and hung out with us, you know? And he's, he's, you know, it's hard to believe what he's, what he's achieved, you know? It really is. Yeah. I haven't seen him for a couple of years. You know, I went back and listened to our first podcast that we did and and heard you telling a story about Peter Clark at at Super Mick and that brought back some interesting memories for me too. You know, like he was, he was one of the original crazy. People Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like, you know, back in the day, it was, it was that old thing like where, you know, somebody called up and it was like looking for a lighting system and the, the everybody used to always say, you know, two trucks with two crew, two spots, 2 grand.

1:02:29 So easy. Simple. Yeah. Is he? I hate to ask, and I don't even typically ask this, but is he still around? Is he among us? He's he's among us. Yeah, absolutely. But he's just, he doesn't do anything in the music industry. Anymore. No, no, he stopped a long time ago. Yeah, he turns up to add a bit of comedy to things every so often, you know? Oh, does he? Yeah, he doesn't even turn up and the whole place just starts cracking up You. Know, of course. Yeah, he's a funny dude. He was a very funny. Yeah, I I didn't realize this. I just noticed recently that you joined this 360 collective thing. Yeah.

1:03:09 Can you tell tell me any more about that? So it's, it's, it's, it's new, but Roland, I've, I've known Roland there for quite some time. It'll be 10 years or whatever, you know. Yeah, you work together. I think the first thing we did was Spandau Ballet together, you know, and production manager, he was, he was working with Patrick Patrick Patrick was, he was the LD from with founder forever, you know, and so Patrick and and Terry come in to program and then Roland was going to run it. So I worked with him and we've been great friends ever since. You know, so he started talking about it and everything like that. You know what, what the whole idea is and, and basically what it is.

1:03:52 It's a company that you know, everything, they can take any concept from anything, you know, be as a band or a corporate or a big TV show or anything, you know, sporting event. There's so many people in there that are qualified in all these events, you know, and it's just a one stop shop, you know, it's just a big company, but it's it's got a lot of big names in it now, you know. It really does. I, you know, it's a who's who. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an amazing list of people. And I've always been a fan of collectives. I know not everyone, not everyone believes in the concept, I guess. I have a, a friend who's got a very successful tech company collective and like very successful. They're doing really, really well. And they have everything from chief technology officers to coders to marketing directors to all kinds of different people. And but they work for like, you know, Fortune 500 types of companies, you know, and especially turnarounds, like if a venture capital firm is going to come in and buy a company or whatever, they'll come in and do a turn around and they'll put in a interim chief technology officer, interim chief financial officer, interim whatever.

1:05:11 And, you know, I've spent a lot of time talking with him about how it all works from a financial standpoint, especially, you know, like how does everyone get paid? You know, and it's, it's such an interesting concept, but what a powerful, you know, entity because, you know, like when we talk about things like Tate and and Claire, you don't it, it's hard to be the small one when you're dealing with such huge corporations. Now, whether it's, you know, Live Nation or the artists themselves or the Sounder Lighting Company or, you know, whatever it is like, you don't want to get squashed by all of them. And so sometimes you need a much larger sort of umbrella over your head. And it seems to make a lot of sense. Yeah.

1:05:58 I mean, you know, as I say, we've we've just put it together so. Yeah, it's early, early days progresses. Yeah. Yeah. Are you working on any cool big corporate stuff these days or? No, I'm, I've, I've literally got this and I've got the, the Aerosmith thing and that's enough for me, you know? I'm yeah, yeah. You know, because obviously as as this rolls on, we start planning the Aerosmith thing. So yeah, there's enough. There's enough in those two, you know. Yeah. Do you ever get to see your wife or. Yeah, now and again. Yeah. Yeah, it's always a difficult part of touring, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yeah, but it's weird how many people I know got divorced during COVID, you know, because it's like the wife would turn around and go, why are you still here?

1:06:44 Get out. Yeah, Go play in traffic. Do something. Yeah, yeah, they just drove each other nuts 'cause I even Cosmo told me, like I was thinking the other day, I've never been with my wife for more than like a month. Yeah. And so sometimes that puts a strain on a relationship when you're not used to that kind of stuff, right, As weird as it sounds. Well, The thing is, they have their own thing going on as well. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, they've they've figured out a life with you on the road. Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Do you do any F1 stuff anymore? No, I haven't done that since since the 2000s. But I still watch it, you know, I still enjoy it.

1:07:25 Yeah. And in fact, back in back in the 2000s, in the early years, we were with Orange Arrows, you know, and it was a thing that was built by Brilliant stages and we took that out around the world and our driver was just for stopping. It was nice, yeah. Max's dad, Yeah. That and, and literally we had, we had, you know, races that he would come up on the unit to do a meet and greet thing, although he didn't like it. He was, you know, he never liked doing that. But it was him and Pedro de La Raza and Max would be sitting in the buggy at the side, you know? Yeah. So yeah, that's funny. Think that it'd be world champion now you know. Seems to have worked out OK.

1:08:09 Yeah, that's. Slightly. Yeah, my, my son's a racing driver and and how's. He. Doing he's doing OK, you know, he's just realizing that his dad is missing a couple zeros off the end of his bank account to really get him to the top. You know, it's it's kind of a weird world in racing right now. You know, it's, it's, there's so many billionaires in the world and unless you happen to be attached to one of them, it makes it much harder. So. Well, there's an Irish, there's an Irish guy now that's. Most drivers these days are showing up with a big bag of cash and so there's not not very many drivers making it in on merit anymore. Yeah, unfortunately.

1:08:50 There's an Irish guy now that's doing well in I think it's Formula Three or Formula Two, but he's with McLaren and he's a guy that John Campion sponsored and put them together. Remember John? Yeah, yeah. Which guy is that though? Which driver? Alex Dunn, I think his name is. Oh, I know Alex Dunn. Yeah, my son raced against him last. Not last year. Maybe the year before. There you go. Yeah, we know Alex Dunn. Yeah. So he's he's doing well and that's thanks to John. And you know what he did with the Irish motorsport stuff, you know? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we raced for an Irish team last year for a little while and ended up my, my son did the, the Jim Clark. It was like the 50th anniversary of him winning his first championship or whatever.

1:09:42 And so we were at some castle, I think it was called maybe Dunn Castle or something, I don't remember. But we were in the little town where Jim Clark was from and there's a castle there and they, they had this big event there and my son was there like signing autographs by his race car and stuff. So it was pretty fun and included and got to drive a formula car down the streets because they couldn't back the trucks up into the onto this castle property, right into the into the yard. And so he had to drive the car through the town and and it was pretty cool getting high fived from people along the streets and stuff. But yeah, So what else did I want to ask you? Your kids, do they still work in the business? They do, yeah.

1:10:32 Yeah. The eldest, the the three of them were out on Ed Sheeran for the, you know, for that run that was there. Yeah. They all went down to doing videos. So the eldest 1, Owen, he's he was the video crew chief on that and the 18 video crew on us, you know, and but he decided then that, you know, he wants to, he wants to change his career. So he was saying, you know, he was thinking of doing stage management. So then Casper Brogaard, who is now Lars was always the the production manager plus audio guy for Rod for years. So his son Casper has taken over as production manager. So Casper then asked Owen, my son, to be stage manager. So.

1:11:20 So he's out there with Rob Stewart at the moment stage managing that. Oh. That's cool. And then the. Other two What are they doing? They're out on ACDC. Oh wow, Yeah, they're out with Cosmo. That's fantastic. So is is that how you would have scripted it or did they just do that all on their own? Did it all on their own, yeah. So you weren't like saying, hey guys, you want to get in this business, do it, do it, do it. No, they literally came to me and said, you know, can we have a go at it? And I said sure. And that was it. It was, it was their choice, you know? That's fantastic. That's good. Yeah. And my son still is just a gear head, like in his head, he just wants to drive race cars. And maybe someday he'll realize he needs a job and and he'll come and ask me the same questions. Yeah.

1:12:10 Yeah. Well, you know, I know you have more important other things to do. And so I appreciate you taking a little bit of time to come and chat with me. It's it's always fun catching up. Yeah, absolutely.