#247 - Joe Casanova

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Hello and thanks for coming
Geese of Gear episode #247.

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Hello and here we are.
So the most recent episode 246

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with Finn.
So Sarah edited that one and she

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wanted to make sure I told you
that because I think everyone

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thinks she's just another pretty
blonde hanging around helping us

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and Nope, she actually does
stuff.

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So Sarah edited and uploaded her
first episode without much help

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from me.
I won't say any help from me.

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She had a few technical issues,
nothing major, and we worked on

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it as a team and we got it done.
So from now on, Sarah is going

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to be editing, uploading and
scheduling the podcasts.

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So yeah, a singular clap for
Sarah.

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Good job.
So an interesting story just

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popped in for me.
You might know that my son

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Jeremy is a racing driver.
And a lot of our listeners

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either love racing or they
tolerate it for my behalf.

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And so F1 News is an interesting
story connecting our world and

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the F1 world.
So a company called Explorer did

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some pretty innovative work
along with Final Pixel and Red

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Bull Racing creating a campaign
that launched the winning RB19

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car, Sorry.
And so as they launched the card

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and they won an award on this,
on this video that they created,

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Sorry, I'm trying to read notes
from Sarah while I'm also

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talking.
Anyways, Explore Final Pixel and

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Red Bull Racing worked on this
campaign around the launch of

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the RB19 car and they won an
award at the Cannes Film

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Festival.
So as a side note, which is

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really cool, our friends at
Production Park handled the

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filming.
The film was done at Studio Four

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in the UK at Production Park.
And of course Red Bull created

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this video on the F1's first
ever ever virtual production

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shoot.
And so the car won, of course,

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they won the championship.
And so, yeah, the shoot blended

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archive footage, video plats,
drone shots with scenes produced

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in Unreal engines, CGI and VFX.
And so then she sends me this

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big long link that I'm supposed
to read, which is basically

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production p-ark.co.uk news.
And then you can look for Oracle

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Red Bull Racing campaign.
But pretty cool story and cool

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project.
And again, it ties sort of my

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two passions racing or two of my
passions racing and and the live

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events industry.
In other news this week, the DOJ

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sued Live Nation and
Ticketmaster last week.

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I'm sure many of you have seen
that and read the articles and

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interviews and both sides of the
story.

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I've kind of reviewed, I've
tried to review, you know, stuff

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written by or said by both
sides.

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And the Fed appear to have a
pretty strong case.

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You know, it certainly looks
like a monopoly on the surface.

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If you look at it, Live Nation
now owns the artist contracts,

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management, venues, ticketing.
It's kind of the definition of a

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monopoly.
So, you know, it's hard to

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compete against them, that's for
sure, whether you're a venue or

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a promoter or a ticketing
company or whatever it is,

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'cause they kind of have this
whole 360 thing going on.

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And of course, Live Nation is
blaming venues and artists and,

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and the DOJ is blaming Live
Nation and Ticketmaster.

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And the reality is even if the
Fed forces the companies to

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break up, it's highly likely
that ticket prices will not go

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down for the end consumer
because what will likely happen

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is that whatever drop in cost
that is will just be eaten up by

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1 or all parts of that system.
So as an example, you know,

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Taylor Swift tickets are $2000,
let's say.

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And if if Ticketmaster and Live
Nation are forced to break up,

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it's not like suddenly those
ticket prices go down to 500

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bucks or something.
So certainly one could argue

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that Ticketmaster and Live
Nation are charging fees that

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are a little higher than
necessary, but the fees only

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make up a small part of that
ticket cost still.

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So, you know, even if the fees
on a $2000 ticket or I don't

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know, I'm making this up, but
let's say it's $400.00, you

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know, 20% of the cost of the
ticket, $400.00 on the surface

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looks really ridiculous.
That looks like a super high fee

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for getting me a ticket to go
see this concert.

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But it there's still $1600
sitting there and where's that

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going?
That's going in Taylor Swift's

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pocket.
So still the artist is is making

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most of that money.
The venue's making some of that

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money.
And the other problem is you

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have to address the secondary
market.

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And by that I mean resells.
So fans reselling their tickets

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or scalpers, you know, and, and
you've got all these sites like

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Seatgeeks and whatever they are,
there's thousands of them out

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there right now.
Marketplace sites where people

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buy tickets for 200 and sell
them for 600 or whatever it is.

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You know, I have a friend with
with Florida Panthers season

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tickets and because they're
playing against New York and you

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have so many rich New Yorkers
who live in Florida now

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everybody wants tickets to go
see the Rangers, hopefully beat

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up on the Florida Panthers and
they're willing to pay for it.

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And so I don't know what face
value is on those tickets,

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probably $200.00 each.
They're paying $700.00 or 750 or

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$800.00.
And so, you know, it's

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intriguing to the person who
owns those tickets to say, hey,

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you know, let's say it becomes
A4 game home series.

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And in this case, I think it can
only be three because the

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Rangers had home ice advantage.
So let's say it's a three-game

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series of of home tickets
because the series goes to seven

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games.
So, you know, if I sell one game

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for $800, that pays more than
enough for the other two, plus

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parking, plus a couple of beers.
And by the way, I went to a game

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on Sunday.
Beer was 1950.

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This is nuts.
You know, $19.50 for a beer at a

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hockey game?
Come on.

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And parking was 65 bucks.
And I mean, it's insane, you

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know, you without even the
ticket, without paying to see

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the game, you're spending, no
matter what, you're spending 100

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bucks no matter what.
I don't care if you'd, by the

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way, water was 950, I mean, or
no, 850, Sorry, it was 850 for a

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bottle of water.
Come on now.

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And I'm not talking those big,
you know, huge bottles of smart

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water or whatever.
I'm talking a bottle of water.

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So anyways, you know, as much as
we want to blame Live Nation and

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Ticketmaster exclusively, my
point isn't that they're angels

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and that they're flawless or
perfect.

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My point is that there's sort of
a lot of hands in this cookie

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jar right now.
And you can't, you know, typical

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of the DOJ, you know, they want
to make a big press release and

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say, you know, we're throwing
away nuisance fees and attacking

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the monsters that are creating
them.

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They're part of a system, you
know, and the whole system is

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creating these high prices on,
on concert tickets.

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And I wish it was all going to
production companies, by the

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way.
I wish it was going to sound

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engineers and, and managers and
production managers and lighting

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designers and stuff.
It's not, you know, there's

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certainly some of those prices
are going up a little bit, but

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they're not getting the bulk of
it.

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The bulk of it is going to the
artist still.

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So as much as the artist wants
to sit quietly back and let Live

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Nation take all the punches, the
artist is as responsible as

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anyone in this.
And then again, the the

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secondary market, the resales.
I'm going to cut you some slack

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because we're going a bit long
here already.

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I won't go heavily into AI
today, but I will tell you that

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I'm working right now to
schedule a podcast with Bob

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Bonio, who like myself, has
taken a real interest in this

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topic.
And so Bob and I are going to do

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a podcast just about AI and as
it relates to our industry.

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So that should be an interesting
talk.

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I'm thinking about making it a
live stream so that we can then

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take questions and take comments
live while we're going.

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So we'll see.
I got to talk to Bob about that

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and see what he thinks and make
sure that it fits the current

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technology that I'm using, which
is constantly evolving.

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But yeah, that could be fun and
or will be fun because Bob is

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very knowledgeable on the topic
and he's a smart guy.

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So I look forward to it and as
always, please wherever you're

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listening to or watching this,
like and subscribe, it helps me.

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00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,320
It helps the podcast
tremendously when you like and

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00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,480
or subscribe to the podcast, It
helps us to get additional

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00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,480
viewers, which helps us to get
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get more sponsors and it just
keeps this machine running.

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So I appreciate it.
We appreciate it very much.

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Please like and subscribe.
And with that, today's guest,

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finally an audio guy.
We've had way too many lighting

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people I think.
Joe Casanova is the sales

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executive and managing partner
and Co founder of SAV

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Entertainment, specializing in
audio, RF coordination,

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communications, system design
and engineering, box rentals and

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much more.
Joe started back in the 80s on

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the rental and production side
of Century Music Systems and

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worked as a staff engineer
prepping tours, repairing

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equipment, training new road
staff and then engineering shows

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for Shoko.
Some of the artists Shoko worked

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with were Prince, Vince Gill,
Eric Clapton, James Taylor, The

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Rolling Stones, and Paul
McCartney.

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Joe also served as the audio
product manager, working

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directly with manufacturers on
new product ideas and vendors

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with new purchases.
In addition, he conducted market

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research on new equipment and
developed market strategies for

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recent trends and pricing.
For nearly 17 years, Joe was the

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senior National Account
Executive and Co founder of the

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Audio Division at VER.
Welcome Joe Casanova to the

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podcast.
Joe, how are you?

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I'm good.
Thank you for having me.

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No, thank you for coming.
Were you saying you've never

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done a podcast?
Never.

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Wow.
Never.

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You're the one.
Never.

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Ever.
Yeah.

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That's amazing.
Yeah, listen to plenty of them,

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you know, but never, you know,
watch plenty of them, but never,

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nobody's ever asked me, hey, you
know, been been in, you know,

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magazine articles and, you know,
stuff like that, the the trade,

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the trade magazines, but never
just, you know.

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That's wild.
Like.

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Never, never.
Just a, you know, like we're

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doing now.
I would say the.

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First time for everything,
right?

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I would say 90% of our guests
have been on multiple podcasts

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00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,880
and a lot of our guests are on
mine more than once too.

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Like you were just mentioning
John Wiseman earlier and and I

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think he's been on three or four
times.

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He's one of my real good buddies
in the industry.

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He's always got something to
say, don't he?

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He does, yeah.
And you don't even have to ask

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him.
It just comes out.

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00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,680
He'll let you.
He'll let you know.

228
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,600
Well, you know, the other thing
I love about John is he's so

229
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:32,040
willing to be so transparent and
honest and, you know, especially

230
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,080
having gone through the what he
went through, you know, with

231
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,880
addiction.
And he will tell you, you know,

232
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,160
he'll tell you the deepest,
darkest stories.

233
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,560
And on my podcast, he talked
about borrowing money from his

234
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,280
parents to go to rehab.
You know, a guy who's that

235
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,280
successful, you know, in his job
and having to borrow money from

236
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,320
his parents to go to rehab.
You know that's.

237
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,920
That's very, it's very, it's
very humbling.

238
00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,440
And he's, he's seen, you know,
all aspects of the, of the

239
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,120
industry, you know for sure.
Yeah, yeah.

240
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,160
No, I, you know, I feel so
fortunate.

241
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,160
I'm so grateful to do this
because, you know, this is

242
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,520
episode 247, I think.
Plus we did a whole bunch of

243
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,120
other sort of outside stuff.
I love doing this.

244
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,440
I love, you know, like you and
I, we were talking before we

245
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,840
started recording.
I think we met at a trade show,

246
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,280
but I don't think either one of
us is positive of that.

247
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,280
But we certainly don't have a
relationship.

248
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,920
So I get to learn who you are
and how you became who you are

249
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,080
and all of that stuff over the
next hour or so.

250
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,240
And I love doing that.
Like, I love people's stories.

251
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:42,400
And you know, do you know Finn?
Mike Finn?

252
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,880
No the name.
'S Finn Big Finn Productions.

253
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,880
These are mostly lighting
people, but you know, I had Finn

254
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,560
Finn.
Everyone in the industry knows

255
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,760
him.
I didn't know him and I had him

256
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,120
on recently.
Actually, I think it launches

257
00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,880
tomorrow and just super cool
getting to know these people,

258
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,120
you know, like just amazing.
I love it.

259
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,080
It's so much fun.
Yeah, I'm always amazed,

260
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,680
especially with that, you know,
with Facebook and social media

261
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,760
where, where you, you know, you,
you, you know, gives you

262
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,320
recommendations on who you
should be friends with or

263
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,000
connect with.
And it was like, you know,

264
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,440
there's people out there.
It was like, how does, how does

265
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,800
this person and myself have, you
know, 200 people, You know,

266
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,560
we're in the same circle, but
we've never met or we don't even

267
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,200
know each other.
You know, that's, that's what's,

268
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,680
that's where I'm blown away
because this industry is so

269
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,680
small compared to other
industries.

270
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,080
And it's like.
That's why I always say, I

271
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,120
always tell the young kids I was
like, don't ever break.

272
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:38,960
Don't ever burn bridges because
you never know.

273
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,200
You know when you're going to be
working with with whoever you

274
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:43,960
know.
Download.

275
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,520
Yeah, no, I mean, look at all
the post VER people who are

276
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,680
floating around or you know, or
you're at VER and you're hating

277
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,920
on PRG every day about those
guys suck.

278
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,160
We're so much better and all
this stuff and next thing you

279
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,840
know you're under the same roof.
Yeah.

280
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,200
That that right that
conversation right there could

281
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,960
be a whole another podcast of
just the two of just how 22 big

282
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,119
companies kind of, you know,
watch together and then.

283
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,560
Yeah, yeah, that's a whole other
story.

284
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,920
So, well, I, I was so close to,
to Jerry and, and the group of

285
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,000
companies that he originally
started putting together under

286
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,240
the PRG banner and just some of
the mistakes that they made, you

287
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,000
know, they were, they were sort
of the OG of rolling up

288
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,640
companies in our industry like
they were the first ones to.

289
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,960
Buy a lot of buying a lot of
industries.

290
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,160
I remember when it was like, you
know, I really didn't, you know,

291
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,880
early on, you know, I remember
Randy Hudson selling his company

292
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,560
because Randy Hudson was he had
Hudson audio, you know, and he's

293
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,920
like, yeah, you know, he was
real successful.

294
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,880
You know, he lived here in in
the in the Dallas Metroplex and,

295
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,000
you know, and he was a he was an
ex show Co guy as well.

296
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,080
So, you know, we, we knew each
other and we would we would do

297
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,960
business.
And then, you know, just got to

298
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,160
know where, you know, he was
doing he was real successful at

299
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,400
doing a lot of these car shows
and, and corporate stuff like

300
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,680
that.
You know, when they called, when

301
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,680
they used to call him industrial
shows, you know, before they

302
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,760
called him corporate.
And, you know, he was like,

303
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,040
yeah, I'm just going to sell my
company to this, you know, this

304
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,880
PRG, you know, Then oh, a sudden
you start hearing these other

305
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,000
companies just kind of follow
along and it's like.

306
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,120
Yeah, no.
It's like the OPS, you know,

307
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,440
like they're like, you know,
they Yeah, same thing.

308
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,320
Well.
No, but you know, four wall out

309
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,720
buying up sort of the mid sized
companies.

310
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,240
Solo Tech is buying a lot of
companies, you know, but PRG

311
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,000
really was sort of the OG like
they started in the 90s rolling

312
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,400
companies together.
And before you know it, they

313
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,720
were this massive.
They, I remember when they were

314
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,600
called the Borg.
But you know, now look, there's

315
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,160
other companies that are at
least as big and in some cases

316
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,320
bigger.
And it seems to be a model that

317
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,960
continues going.
Like, you know, Christie Lights

318
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,720
is getting bigger and bigger
now.

319
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,080
And on the audio side, certainly
Claire buying up companies.

320
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:02,160
No kidding.
You know, I don't know what your

321
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,480
thoughts are on it and and you
might you might share some neat

322
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,720
thoughts on this one because.
I think my thoughts are a couple

323
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,440
of things is like when it comes
to mind, it was like when, when

324
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,080
you, when you work for a company
that big and you have that many

325
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:20,320
locations, it's really, really
tough operationally to, just to,

326
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,480
to, to make things happen
sometimes, you know, and it's,

327
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,080
and it's really expensive too.
You know, it's, and you've got

328
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,480
to have a really, really good
software program, you know, VER,

329
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,560
you know, we were just using,
you know, one off the shelf, you

330
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,120
know, and it was, it was, you
could, you'd only have, you

331
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:42,440
know, when I joined VER, we only
had maybe three or four offices.

332
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,440
You know, I, I, I, I joined real
early on.

333
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,720
As a matter of fact, you know,
when I met the owner, No, I was

334
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,160
working for another.
Let's start back.

335
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,760
Let's start way back, I guess.
You know, I was starting, I was,

336
00:19:53,160 --> 00:20:00,640
I was working for Shoko Head.
I left Shoko, I think in 2000

337
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,880
because they were bought out by
Clare Brothers, right.

338
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,440
And then from there, I, you
know, I had a friend of mine,

339
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,680
Randy Williams, he was working
for this company.

340
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,880
It was a, it was an AV company
called AVW.

341
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,240
You know, they're now called
Freeman.

342
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,200
And he goes, man, you gotta come
over here.

343
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,600
You know, he goes, he goes, you
know, his boss was another Shoko

344
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,640
guy and he goes, you know, we
just, we do these corporate jobs

345
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,400
and, you know, you're working
in, you know, hotels, you know,

346
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,280
ballroom stuff and.
We got this real simple PA and I

347
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,160
was like, man, sounds great,
sign me up, I'll do it.

348
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,400
And I was like, I remember one
of the first corporate jobs I

349
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,280
ever did was like the hardest
job I've ever done in my life.

350
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,760
I wasn't used to people telling
me, well, you can't put the

351
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,560
speakers there and you can't put
the speakers there.

352
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,760
You got to put them over here
and you got a mix from, you

353
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,160
know, over here on the side.
You know, when in Rock'n'roll it

354
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,640
was like speakers going here and
I'm sitting up here and it was

355
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,720
like you didn't have anybody to
tell you what and you got and

356
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,200
you and you got to put the key
way high up there because you

357
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,120
know, we got these screens and
they can't, you can't walk the

358
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,200
screens, you know, whatever you
do.

359
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,920
So stuff like that.
And then it was like, oh, by the

360
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,040
way, we're going to have like 10
guys on stage and they're all

361
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,520
you have.
They all have to wear a lot, you

362
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,400
know, And it was like what you
know, and it was like, oh, by

363
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,840
the way, on comps, you know, you
have to run coms for, you know,

364
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,000
everybody that's in the
production when you know, I was

365
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,280
used to like, you know, front of
house monitors, you know, done

366
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,960
that was it, you know, and half
the time, you know, the belt

367
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,280
pack and the flasher were just
already connected and you know,

368
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,120
they just lived in the dog House
of the mixing console, you know.

369
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:35,000
So anyway, so you know.
Well, but the the point, so the

370
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,640
point I was, I was making is
that like when you look at

371
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,680
companies like Claire now who
own tons of, of different audio

372
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,480
companies and you know, or four
wall or any of these roll up

373
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,800
companies, solo tech, When you
look at those companies, like

374
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,320
you said, there are some
challenges to being that big

375
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,280
operational challenges.
You got to have real disciplines

376
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,000
in place.
You know, one of the early

377
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,920
problems that PRG ran into was
infrastructure like things like

378
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,080
Rd. cases and cabling not
matching, you know, like you

379
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,280
know, when you're trying to pack
a truck and you got different

380
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,440
size Rd. cases for the same
products, for example, it became

381
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,800
problematic or, or when you were
doing cross rentals between

382
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,640
company owned businesses and the
stuff didn't have the same

383
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,760
connectors on the ends or the
whatever it was right.

384
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,520
But then what the point I was
going to make is, is where you

385
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,680
would have some really unique
experience.

386
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,200
When you're large, you have
access to resources.

387
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:43,280
When you're small, you don't.
And I think as many of these

388
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,040
companies continue to grow
through acquisition and through

389
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,600
investment from private equity
or venture or whatever it is,

390
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,400
it's becoming more challenging I
think for the smaller business

391
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,400
to businesses to be able to
compete.

392
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,920
And it is, especially as
resources are becoming so much

393
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,320
more, you know, like a sound
system now costs so much money.

394
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,200
A console costs so much money.
It's not like it was 20 years

395
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,960
ago or whatever.
No, no.

396
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,600
So that's just evolved because
it was like, you know, in in

397
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,880
manufacturing, you know, I was
talking to somebody the other

398
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,280
day about this.
It was like, you know, back in

399
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,600
the day there was, you know,
there was so many amplifiers and

400
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,280
there was so many different
model mixing boards.

401
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,480
But the one industry you could
get into that didn't cost a lot

402
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,160
of money was just building
speaker, you know, and back then

403
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,080
everybody had their own
proprietary speaker, you know,

404
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,400
player built on show, Co built
on speaker, you know, and, and,

405
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,800
and so on.
But you know, it's one of those

406
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,520
where it's like, you know, you
get a CNC machine, you buy, you

407
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,320
know, some really good wood, you
maybe know something about

408
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,440
acoustics and, you know, speaker
design and you buy the you buy

409
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,160
the drivers and all of a sudden
you're in the speaker business.

410
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,000
You know, whether it sounds good
or not, that's subjective, you

411
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,560
know, but it was, it's just one
of those things that, you know,

412
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,720
people started, you know,
building.

413
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,640
I was when I first went to
Shoko, I was, I was just blown

414
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:13,680
away.
I was working for a small

415
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,880
regional company, you know, you
know, in San Antonio and I, I

416
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,040
found an ad, you know, in pro
sound news, Hey, work for Shoko.

417
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,160
And it was had that iconic logo
that they had.

418
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,160
And I was like, I'm just going
to call one day.

419
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,920
And I, you know, I ended up
talking to, you know, somebody

420
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,040
there.
And then sure enough, you know,

421
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,720
I, I bought a Southwest Airlines
plane ticket and flew myself

422
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,160
there.
And I, you know, I met with him

423
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680
and I remember walk, you know,
you walk in and it's just the

424
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,280
typical office, you know, lady
at the front desk.

425
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,360
But then you start looking
around and you start looking at

426
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,120
all these photos of ZZ Top and
The Rolling Stones.

427
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,120
It's just, and, and Shoko was,
and Shoko Verlite, they had

428
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,640
their own staff photographer
named Lewis Lee.

429
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,680
And he's like, you know, he was
like an iconic just, yeah, he

430
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,960
was a, he was a industry.
He's really a pioneer of just

431
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,840
photography of concerts, you
know, And it was like, you know,

432
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,680
they had The Moody Blues and
just just go down the list of

433
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,800
just all the Choko clients and
just all these posters all the

434
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,760
way around the building.
And, you know, I, I walk down

435
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,880
the hallway and I, you know, I
pass up ML procise, you know,

436
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,760
which was like, man, it was like
one of the reasons I wanted to

437
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200
work there.
I just, you know, he was, he was

438
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,080
the, you know, engineer of
engineers, you know, they had

439
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,720
all these tech awards, you know,
and stuff.

440
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,640
So I get out to the warehouse
and it's just this massive, you

441
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,200
know, warehouse and they've got
just speakers everywhere.

442
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,080
And I just remember seeing crown
amplifiers where you know, and,

443
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,560
and all this outboard gear and I
just, you know, the sound

444
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,720
company I worked for, you know,
we had like maybe two or three

445
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,320
racks of amp racks while they
just had amp racks laying

446
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,880
around.
Like it was like it was cord

447
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,640
wood, like it was just nothing.
It was just like they had plenty

448
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,160
and they were prepping for, they
were prepping for, I can't

449
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,440
remember whatever, whatever tour
it was at the time, but it was

450
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,080
just blown away something
massive.

451
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,640
And I was like, well, this is
the company I want to work for

452
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,240
for sure.
You know, at that time the two

453
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,320
biggest companies were just
Shoko, you know, Shoku and

454
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,480
Claire, you know, and then there
was there was Audio Analyst and

455
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,200
there was, you know, there was,
I can't remember the other ones,

456
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,440
but you know, they were, they
were all out there and I was

457
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,120
just, I just wanted to be part
of it, you know, for sure.

458
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,480
I know.
I can completely.

459
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,720
You know, it's funny because
I've heard similar stories, like

460
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,800
George Masek told me a similar
story about Vera Light.

461
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,360
Basically, you know, like when I
walked through that building, I

462
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:41,560
was like, this is where I want
to be, you know, and, you know,

463
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,800
very similar story.
And I mean, that was sort of

464
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,680
again, when we talk about the
foundation of our industry,

465
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,840
that's what it was about.
It was like, hey, I really want

466
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,320
to go do these cool shows with
The Rolling Stones and all these

467
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,880
people.
And but yeah, you know, so many

468
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,600
different directions we can go
here because I know, I know.

469
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:02,840
I keep on.
It's my fault.

470
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,320
I keep on going.
No, no, no.

471
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,320
If I do the same thing.
There, there literally are a lot

472
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,640
of things we can talk about
because I, I want to pick your

473
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,480
brain on so many things, But
let's start with, you know,

474
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,680
let's start with your career,
you know, because I know you,

475
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,320
you started like around the mid
80s or something, right?

476
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,000
I started, I graduated high
school in 1986, right?

477
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800
And like I said, I grew up in
San Antonio and I got into this

478
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,360
business because all my friends
were musicians.

479
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,280
It just worked out that way.
You know, it was like, you know,

480
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,320
when I was in 6th grade, a buddy
of mine, he had, I went to a

481
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,720
private, you know, parochial,
you know, Catholic school, you

482
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,760
know, and one of my buddies, his
name was Michael Jones.

483
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,000
He had, he had come to, he had,
I met him in the 6th grade.

484
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,960
He had transferred over from
public school.

485
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,680
And then we, he had a mutual
friend, he or no, he had a

486
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,040
friend that he introduced me to.
His name was John Boyd.

487
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,400
And John was, you know, he was a
musician and he was learning to

488
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,160
play bass.
And all of a sudden, you know,

489
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,200
he had a little band and the
band just, you know, if we got

490
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,360
friends, the band kept getting
bigger, you know, richly.

491
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,160
And they would play, you know,
back in the day, you would, you

492
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,320
would just hire a band to play
your school prom or your, you

493
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,520
know, or your or your or a
homecoming or just a party,

494
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,160
stuff like that.
And that's how I just got

495
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,040
involved.
I was just hanging around, you

496
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,920
know, I wasn't good enough to
play, you know, an instrument.

497
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,840
I was more of AI just like to
tinker with things.

498
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,080
You know, my parents got me a
soldering iron when I was early

499
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,200
on and I would take apart the
can opener and just stuff like

500
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,360
that, you know, just figure I
was like, why doesn't this work?

501
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,320
You know, my, my, my dad and my,
my grandfather, they were both,

502
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,120
you know, tinkerers as well.
In fact, they just, you know,

503
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,560
something broke, you fixed it
yourself.

504
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,600
You know, that was just the.
Thing, you know, that's why I'm

505
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,280
in sales 'cause I would take
apart the can opener and a can

506
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,160
opener and I could never put it
back together.

507
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,920
You just leave it.
Yeah, yeah, that was it.

508
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,280
I just leave a whole bunch of
pieces sitting there and hope my

509
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,280
parents didn't notice or I put
it back together without the one

510
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,200
important piece that made it all
work right.

511
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,360
How?
Come I got all these extra

512
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,600
screws what the yeah, yeah, no,
I wouldn't try to do that.

513
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,520
And then I just, I, I was, it
was one of those to where, you

514
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,840
know, I, I, I went to college
and then the guys call me,

515
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,840
they're playing down on 6th St.
in Austin.

516
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,560
And they were like, he's like,
Hey, you really need to come

517
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,440
down here.
We've got a sound guy and he's

518
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,600
just not cutting it.
He's is missing all the cues and

519
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,480
it, it just doesn't sound right.
And, and they're like, just come

520
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,480
down and just stand next to him
and tell him, you know what to

521
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,880
do.
Because, you know, part of

522
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,520
mixing a band, just like running
light for a band is to know the

523
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,920
cues and to know the parts of
the song, right?

524
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,120
You know, the the other part of
it is the technology part of it.

525
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,440
Yeah, I can't imagine that went
well though, standing next to a

526
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,320
sound guy and telling.
Yeah, to a seasoned guy with

527
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,440
tattoos, you know, ponytail and
smoking cigarettes.

528
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,360
And here I am, happily listen.
To you.

529
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,760
Yeah, fine.
You know, he had a good attitude

530
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,200
because I don't think he wanted
to be there to begin with.

531
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,680
And he goes, he goes here, why
don't you?

532
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,800
Finally, after I think he
finally got fed up.

533
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,120
And then he was like, here you
do it, here are the faders and

534
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,720
here's that.
And all of a sudden I was like,

535
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,560
hey, I'm I'm doing this, isn't
it?

536
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,320
You know, And I just started to
figure it out, you know, and I

537
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,120
was like, man, this is really
neat.

538
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,000
You're really, you know, being
an audio engineer, you're kind

539
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,840
of like the 5th Beatle to a
certain extent.

540
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,320
You're, you're, you're playing,
you're playing the, you know, I

541
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,120
briefly Beaufort Jones says it's
a lot.

542
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,680
He goes your, your instrument is
the sound board.

543
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,760
That's what you're doing.
You're mixing that.

544
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,840
So I never thought of it that
way until years ago.

545
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,120
I listened to him speak at A at
a Meyer conference or something

546
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,200
and I was like, wow, that, that
totally makes sense.

547
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,760
You know that's that's.
Somebody you should have on your

548
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,440
show Talk about stories.
Gosh.

549
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,400
Beaufort Jones.
Oh, cool.

550
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,920
Yes, Sarah, reach out.
Sarah, reach out.

551
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,240
Great, great human being and
just boy, he's got, he's got

552
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,640
some stories to tell you.
From Love Stories.

553
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,080
So that was the beginning of
your career?

554
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:00,920
So that was it.
I was doing that.

555
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,760
And then, you know, I was going
to college at the same time, but

556
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,560
I got a job at a music store and
it was called Century Music

557
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,840
Systems in San Antonio.
And they I remember.

558
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,920
Something music.
I think I was doing business

559
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,480
with Century Music in at Martin
like in the 90s.

560
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,160
Probably, yeah, for sure.
Yeah, they were.

561
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,720
They were based in San Antonio.
They're kind of A2 store

562
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,400
operation, but part of what they
did as well.

563
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,320
You know, they did, they did,
you know, rentals and stuff and

564
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,880
they did backline rentals and
what not.

565
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,480
But they also had, you know,
they had a small production

566
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,840
company where we would go out
and you know, do gigs down at

567
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,160
you know, we would do whatever,
whatever it was, whether it was

568
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,760
a fashion show all the way up to
doing found out at, you know,

569
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,160
there's in South Texas, there's
a dance hall everywhere.

570
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,440
So we were doing, you know, a
lot of those, you know,

571
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,040
regional, you know, back when
that's when Americana was just

572
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,640
starting up, I guess, you know,
it's getting more popular, you

573
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,560
know, the Robert O Keene and the
Jerry Jeff Walker and, and bands

574
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,480
like that, you know, I call them
three name guys.

575
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,080
You know, it was that was that
was going on.

576
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,960
So we're just doing stuff like
that.

577
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,120
And so finally, I, I just worked
there long enough to where it's

578
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,520
like, gosh, I just feel like I'm
outgrowing this company.

579
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,240
And, and, and the owners just,
you know, they didn't want to,

580
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,000
they just, they didn't want to
move forward.

581
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,400
They just wanted to say, let's
keep it small.

582
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,720
And I was ready to just I want
to, I want to do something

583
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,000
bigger, you know, and that's
when I just answered the added

584
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,880
Shoko, you know, and I was like,
and that's when I had worked

585
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,760
there, you know, I worked there
from 94 up until the time, you

586
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,600
know, they.
That's a huge jump from century

587
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,640
music to Shoko.
Wow.

588
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,560
It was a huge jump and I was
like, but I caught on quick

589
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,200
'cause, you know, I already back
then it was like, you know,

590
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,920
there was only a handful of
mixing consoles.

591
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,800
You know, there was like APM
3000 and yeah, you have these

592
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,600
Rams of modernists, but what
they had that nobody else had,

593
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,000
they had these Harrison consoles
that were built specifically for

594
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,760
them.
And those, those were just a

595
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,640
game changer.
You know, not a lot of other

596
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,520
companies had them And, and
Choco was one of the first to

597
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,840
build their own mixing board
called the Super board, you

598
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,320
know, which was amazing.
You know, this is back, back in

599
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,040
the in the 70s, you know, where
they're able to just manufacture

600
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,760
and build their own console
because there wasn't anything

601
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,280
else like it.
You couldn't go out and buy a

602
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,760
you know, we used to joke.
It's like you couldn't, you

603
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,160
couldn't buy a store bought a
store bought speaker.

604
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,400
You know, they just didn't make
it.

605
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,120
You had to make you have to
build it.

606
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,960
You have to build it yourself
and you have to build it with,

607
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,400
you know, components with, you
know, that the manufacturer had,

608
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,720
you know, you look back at it
and it was like, gosh, you know,

609
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,440
these speakers were only, you
know, they're only this

610
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,880
powerful, you know, and you're
doing, you know, they're doing

611
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,120
these massive concerts now.
You know, they have speakers

612
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,280
that were, you know, three times
the.

613
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,120
Power, you know, in the lighting
business, we always talk about

614
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,200
sort of these these like game
changing big moments in the

615
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,960
industry or whatever and and you
know, shortly after Vera light

616
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,520
there was sort of the advent of
moving lights for sale.

617
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,520
So, you know, we went from these
static lights to moving lights

618
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,400
in call it the late 80s, early
90s.

619
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:07,080
And then, you know, went from
moving mirrors to moving heads

620
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:12,840
and went from, you know, from
that to like from lamps to LE DS

621
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,800
and all of these, these big
changes that happened and

622
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,920
control, there was big changes
on the control side, but in

623
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,560
audio.
So, you know, I used to play in

624
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:29,639
bands in, in the early 80s and
you know, we, we had like JBLW

625
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:33,520
bins and, and these I forget
what the I think it was like

626
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,280
Altec.
Altec, Lansing.

627
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,320
Altec Horns.
And horns.

628
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,639
I forget what the mids were.
I think they might have been JBL

629
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,480
boxes or something too.
But and I remember when we went

630
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,920
from using those W bins and
stuff to Martin with the what

631
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,199
was the Martin thing called?
What did they call that thing?

632
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,440
Like a it had a funny name the
the shaver or razor or something

633
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,800
Shave.
Yeah, I can't remember.

634
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,240
I know what you're talking
about.

635
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,280
Though something shave, I
forget, but anyways, you know

636
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,920
when when you went to those
Martin bins and they were

637
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,640
fifteens and they just sounded
incredible and it was so much

638
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,360
smaller and more compact.
But then like, so one of the

639
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,320
cool things about being our age
is that you got to see these

640
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,160
massive shifts in technology,
like just monumental changes in

641
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,520
the industry generations, you
know, And so you saw the the

642
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,800
shift into these, you know,
fiberglass boxes where they were

643
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,360
firing backwards and and
reflecting out and all these

644
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,160
different types of technologies.
But then it went from stacked

645
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,880
speakers to line ray and from
audio conflict.

646
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,320
To let me interrupt you.
I remember when that first

647
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:52,760
happened and it was like, so I,
so this, this story was told to

648
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,200
me by another close friend of
mine.

649
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,080
He's named Stewart Bennett.
And he's a, he's a very popular,

650
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,360
you know, engineer, tour
engineer.

651
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,840
And he was telling me he was out
on tour with like Soundgarden

652
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,720
or, or, or something like that.
And he was in he was in Europe

653
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,880
and he came back and I remember
he went into the office, you

654
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,880
know, there at Shoko and he
talked to, you know, one of the

655
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,080
bosses and he was like, you
wouldn't believe, you know, I

656
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,400
was I was at this a venue there
and they had this line away with

657
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,000
a bunch of speakers and they're
just, you know, all, you know,

658
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,320
in an array, you know,
vertically.

659
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,120
And it was just it sounded
amazing.

660
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,760
And I remember Stuart telling me
I was like, well, what did you

661
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,040
tell you?
You know, it was like, you know,

662
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,440
he was kind of convincing.
This is where this is where it's

663
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,280
going.
This is where we need to be as

664
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,240
opposed to just the big massive,
you know, stack and high D.

665
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,200
You know, the at Choco they had,
you know, the prison system,

666
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,680
which is phenomenal himself.
But this was, this was more of

667
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,760
a, this was just a different way
to look at it, you know, and the

668
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,800
fact that you could, you know,
you had a program and you're

669
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,400
able to change the angle of
every speaker to where, you

670
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,480
know, you could point every
speaker where it needed to be

671
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,920
from, you know, people in the,
you know, in the 300 section all

672
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,400
the way down to, you know,
people on the floor, you know,

673
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,560
where you just have, you know,
great coverage.

674
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,240
Whereas, you know, before Choco,
you just set it up and just, you

675
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,160
know, I had a friend.
That you just made it loud.

676
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,840
Enough so you had a friend that
told me one time, hey, just

677
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,760
point the speakers where the
people are going to be.

678
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,440
Well, that makes a lot of sense.
So, so, but then I go, well,

679
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,880
what did he what did they tell
you?

680
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:28,960
You know, what do you say he
goes.

681
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,800
They just didn't want to hear.
It was like, go back in the

682
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,880
shop, you know, we're we've got,
you know, they were just so

683
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,560
proud of, you know, of, of what
they had and they just thought

684
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,040
they're and and that for the
longest time, yeah, the system

685
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,480
was the was the best out there.
Yeah, the other, other sound

686
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,520
companies out there, you know,
so, so yeah, that was just, it

687
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,880
was just amazing to to hear
that.

688
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,480
And that was, you know, that was
in the late, that was in the

689
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,640
late 90s.
Now it's like, you know, now,

690
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,200
you know, the and for the
longest time, you know, line

691
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,240
array was just kind of a it was
a phenomenon.

692
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:03,920
It was just a buzzword.
You know, I remember VER people

693
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,080
like I need to have I need to
book a line array.

694
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,520
OK, well, let me let me just ask
some questions before how how

695
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,720
tall are your, you know, like
how tall are your ceilings?

696
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:14,080
You know, what are you?
Oh, there, it's just like a 12

697
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,640
foot ballroom, you know, not
like.

698
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,200
Well, you don't need a, you
don't need a, you don't need a.

699
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,120
You don't need a line already
for that one.

700
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,960
You know.
It's just exactly and that was

701
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,000
just one of those where people
were like, you know, it just

702
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,720
became it just became a thing.
But yeah, it's just amazing how

703
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,960
how it has I I want to say that,
you know.

704
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker The the gear itself,
it's probably, it's probably, I

705
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,240
don't know, maybe 30% even more
lighter, you know, than than

706
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:43,400
what the gear is now, you know,
and just, it's just, it's just

707
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,880
built way more efficient.
I I bet you could probably, you

708
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,680
know, beat in bands.
I don't know what instrument you

709
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,560
played, but you just remember
the guitar player having to move

710
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,320
his position of the pickups.
That way he wouldn't get a buzz

711
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,320
from the from the neon beer
signs, you know, or something

712
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,520
like that.
You know, of course.

713
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,160
But do you?
So when did you use your first?

714
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,400
Like when did you mix on your
first line array system?

715
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:14,760
Gosh, it wasn't probably until
it was probably when when at VE,

716
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,880
it was probably at VER is when
we we, we when I joined, we had

717
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,200
we didn't have anything.
When I first joined VER we I had

718
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,560
met with the owner and he hired
me like right off the bat

719
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,360
because I had told him that
thence correct.

720
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,560
He he had picked me up and we
had we had had breakfast at

721
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,640
Bob's big boy in in, in in
Glendale.

722
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,000
You know, that was like his spy
and he was just he was just

723
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,200
asking me all these questions
just left and right, just kind

724
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,000
of just peppering me with all
these questions, you know, and

725
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,080
at the time, you know, I met him
because I was working.

726
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,040
I I started, I I took a seat
back.

727
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,320
I took a step back from, from
going on the road and I was just

728
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,160
kind of, I became like the cross
rental guy, you know, I took a

729
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,240
desk job and you know, and, and
the people, the guy I replaced,

730
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,640
he goes, well, you want to start
calling If we need cameras or

731
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,560
something, you want to, you want
to talk to this company.

732
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,800
They just opened up in Dallas.
They're called VER, they're

733
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,000
called video equipment rentals
and talk to talk to them.

734
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,800
So I got to, I got to, I had a
report with them ordering gear.

735
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,520
And then I told them one time I
was like, gosh, if you guys had

736
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,360
more audio gear, I would
probably rent it from you

737
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,480
because back then there wasn't
just a place where you could go

738
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,720
and get everything.
You'd have to call.

739
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,480
This company for that and this
you'd have to kind of piece it

740
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,040
together and that's how and
that's that's how it was back

741
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,480
then.
There wasn't just a go to place

742
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,800
where you could just get
everything like you can now, you

743
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:40,720
know?
Yeah.

744
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,120
And and that's, and that's what
I thought was just, I was like,

745
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,160
so then the wheels on my head
was like, well, you know, if ER

746
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,000
got more into audio, then then
we could, then we could do

747
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,160
something.
So I, I talked Vincent to it.

748
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,320
I told him what my idea was and
he hired me like that.

749
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,000
And at the time there was only
one other audio guy.

750
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,840
His name was Brady, Brady
Belovic.

751
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,920
And, and, and all we really had
were just, you know, speakers on

752
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,120
sticks, you know, some wireless
mics, you know, some random

753
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,800
stuff, you know, not a full
system.

754
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,480
And it wasn't until we, we got
there and people started

755
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,240
calling, Hey, do you got this?
Do you have that?

756
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,920
And we just went bananas.
And it was like from 2000, I

757
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,840
started working there, I think
2001, 2002 from then on, we just

758
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,200
never stopped.
It just snowballed up until the

759
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,320
time that, you know, we started
getting more into, you know,

760
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,800
touring, audio touring and
everything else.

761
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,680
And it was just, it was just
non, it was just non-stop.

762
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,160
What about the stop buying gear?
So, so to answer your question,

763
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:45,080
it was the we had bought the JBL
Vertex had had come out and we

764
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:51,240
had bought, we had bought 80, we
had bought, you know, 80808080

765
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,200
and 80 of the of the of the four
different style of boxes that

766
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,120
they had.
And we had, we had partnered up

767
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,840
with sound Image because we had
built that was our first rental,

768
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,720
you know where we became.
That's where that's where that's

769
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:09,560
where we became the solution for
a lot of companies where where

770
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,520
let's say X band decides, hey,
we want to go out on a summer

771
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,760
tour.
And usually most sound companies

772
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,000
there, they're sold out.
You know, you want to be sold

773
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,800
out in the summer, right?
Well, we were their problem

774
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,840
where it's like, all right,
let's go to this company.

775
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:26,000
Dr. So we built our Amprax
identical to theirs.

776
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,280
So that way we would, we even,
we even went to their warehouse

777
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,000
in San Diego and we, we built
the Amprax there, you know.

778
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,160
And we matched.
Up.

779
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,160
We matched up with them and
then, but it was so it was so

780
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,400
random because I would just go
to different companies and tell

781
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,800
them, Hey, you know, if you need
extra cabinets, Well, you know,

782
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,680
we're, we're, we're kind of
Switzerland.

783
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,520
Hey, we're, we'll rent to you.
And, and they'd be like, you're

784
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,160
just going to rent us cabinets,
Not even send a guy or anything.

785
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,160
I was like, no, we'll just rent
it to you.

786
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,320
You guys know what you're doing.
Just don't, you know, don't blow

787
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:00,800
it up.
But and that was it.

788
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,840
And that's when it just then all
of a sudden we bought, we just,

789
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,520
it just never stopped.
Like, so that's why, well, you

790
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,000
guys got so good at, you know.
You know, cross rentals, you

791
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,480
know, whether it was lighting,
video or or audio, that became a

792
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,560
really big niche, obviously.
Yeah, being in the rental

793
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,280
business just, yeah, that's when
I was like, gosh, I always tell

794
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,280
people if I was to, if I was to
start it all over again, if I

795
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,800
had my own client or, or a
handful of clients, I would use

796
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,520
a company like that to do
everything.

797
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,480
I'd I'd make them be my
warehouse, my trucking company,

798
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,400
my logistics company, my gear
source, just everything and just

799
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,440
work from, you know, the kitchen
table and do it that way it.

800
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,680
Makes it makes things a lot
lighter on the on the cost side.

801
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,200
It does and you're always
getting the and you're always

802
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,640
getting the latest greatest year
because it was well, I thought

803
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,200
was cool about VE Rs that they
never put their logo on

804
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,320
anything.
You know, they're very all their

805
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,920
cases were black and you know,
they didn't really have as far

806
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,280
as branding or their big load.
They didn't do any of that.

807
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,960
You know, they would just,
people would just, they would

808
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,200
just show up and you know.
Yeah, no, it it was a really

809
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,280
good company until it wasn't.
Exactly right.

810
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,800
So right.
Yeah, I mean, right around that

811
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,640
VR time is also when consoles
started moving from analog to

812
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,800
digital too, right?
Absolutely, Absolutely.

813
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,920
So what was that like for you?
That was the the first.

814
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,800
Well, I went back to Shoko where
it was like there was still, you

815
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,480
know, I remember.
So Shoko they, they had come out

816
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,520
when, when Kiss went out on
tour, their engineer, Toby

817
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,280
Francis, he had his, he went out
and bought this console called

818
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,240
an Amec Amec recall.
And it was kind of like an

819
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,880
analog console, but it was kind
of like a digital console where

820
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,600
it it'll recall all your
settings from let's say you had

821
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,680
multiple bands.
Well, it would record, it would

822
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,040
remember your settings from from
the other bands.

823
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,720
So like kind of the beginning of
digital consoles and then then

824
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:03,680
show called built their own.
They built their own digital

825
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,600
console with the help of
Harrison and it was called the

826
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,080
show console.
And that was that was another

827
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,000
amazing thing where it was like,
you know, it had all the the

828
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,920
rotaries in there and it was
like you would actually see

829
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,600
faders move up and down and
you'd see the pots move, you

830
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,560
know, like, like somebody's, you
know, doing it for you.

831
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,240
And I was like, wow, this is
bananas.

832
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,040
This is crazy.
And then it wasn't until, you

833
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,680
know, the other manufacturers,
especially like Yamaha started

834
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,240
coming out with with digital
consoles.

835
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,880
And it was just, it just became
the norm, you know, And, you

836
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,160
know, all these young kids
started coming up, you know,

837
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,880
where they were like they were,
they were trained and learned on

838
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,720
these digital desks, you know,
which was, which was really the

839
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,240
game changer because I, you
know, I call all those young

840
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:51,960
kids, they were just kind of the
young kids with laptops, you

841
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,200
know, they just.
Yeah, they just knew everything.

842
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,360
They knew all the programs like
this and they just, they just

843
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,000
really, they just really got it.
You know, there's a whole church

844
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,400
group of people that that are
just, they're just amazing that

845
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,360
that they're just smart and they
just know how to.

846
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,080
It was funny that.
How that all happened, Well, I

847
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,880
guess it was a little later than
than the lighting business.

848
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:17,040
The lighting business was sort
of the late 90s when they went

849
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,200
from like the big avo huge
console to the little tiny hog

850
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,880
console hog two.
And but then the same thing

851
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,920
happened to audio where you your
consoles got a lot smaller.

852
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,160
It's amazing.
You know how much easier front

853
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,040
of house got when when you guys
all went to digital conference?

854
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,520
I bet there are promoters like
that, you know, with smaller

855
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,400
footprint out in front of house,
you know, you can sell more, you

856
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,880
can sell more seats, you know.
Yeah, That was, you know, yeah.

857
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,440
It's just amazing, like I said,
how it's just evolved.

858
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,640
The smaller, more compact is
overall better electronics and

859
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,600
parts than than how it was
before.

860
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,080
A funny story, It wasn't that
long ago that I went to see a

861
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,840
friend.
He was doing a show out at the

862
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,840
Gaylord here in Dallas.
So I went out there and it was

863
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,960
like I was just, you know, I
wasn't, I wasn't blown away, but

864
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,520
it made me think back.
I was like, man, not that long

865
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,200
ago it the setup wouldn't be
anything like this.

866
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,480
He had a small digital console
and it's like he didn't even

867
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,280
have, you know what we would
call a, a, a copper snake and

868
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,840
you know, multi multi channel
snake.

869
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,640
He had just a CAT5 cable going
to a rack that lives backstage.

870
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,000
And then, you know, with, with
all these different protocols,

871
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,040
Maddie and Dante and all this
stuff, he was able to plug in

872
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,440
all his, his wireless rack of,
of wireless racks.

873
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,280
Well, that was just a, you know,
again, it was just a, a CAT5

874
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,520
into the, you know, into the
console.

875
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,280
I was like, what?
And then it was like, you know,

876
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,840
all the lights were just all the
LED lights.

877
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,520
It was like no Dimarack, no ETC,
whatever.

878
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,320
It was all just, it was just a,
it was just a distro where they

879
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,600
just wanted and, and you know,
and just DMX cable.

880
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,400
And then it was like, well,
where's your I don't even think

881
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,280
they had a distro.
He tied into the lighting his he

882
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:09,760
got his power from the lighting
distro.

883
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,360
When would that, you know, back
when we were doing it, it was

884
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,720
like that was just, it was just,
it wasn't possible.

885
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,800
It wasn't even frowned upon.
It was like, you know, you can't

886
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:20,880
do it.
It doesn't, it's not going to

887
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:21,840
work.
You know, you're going to get a

888
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,920
buzz.
It's like, no, that's how they,

889
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,680
that's how they do it, you know?
And I was like, this is this is

890
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,360
crazy, you know?
Well, you know, to this day,

891
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:33,720
like I, you know, I used to be
able to walk up to a sound craft

892
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:38,400
console or some kind of a, you
know, an analog console and, you

893
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,680
know, turn some things and move
some things and make it sound

894
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,240
half decent.
You know, for my own band or for

895
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,120
another you.
Can at least get sound out of

896
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,680
the board.
I mean, we're talking about like

897
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,000
a 40 channel sound craft console
or something, right?

898
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,680
And but today I don't even know
how to turn them on, you know,

899
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,280
like, and and then you get into
Dante and all the plugins and

900
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,440
stuff and you know, like where's
my effects rack?

901
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,920
You know, where's my outboard?
And you know, it's, it's just so

902
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,960
different now and lighting, I've
stayed up on audio.

903
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,680
I haven't audio just went way
past me.

904
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,440
Audio's over my head at this.
Point they just keep pushing,

905
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,760
they just keep pushing, you
know, the envelope and it was

906
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,480
like, gosh, you know, now you
know, there's a company out

907
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,840
there where it was like, what
else can they do to speakers?

908
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,760
You know, they can make them
lighter, they can make them you

909
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,440
know, they can make the the
rigging easier, you know, quick.

910
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,960
But now, you know, there's this
company called PK Audio and, and

911
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,040
they're from, I want to say
they're from Calgary.

912
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,760
They're from.
They're.

913
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:39,400
PK Sound, Yeah, you've heard of
that.

914
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:45,000
They are in Calgary.
So, so these guys, they what's I

915
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,560
think the owner's name is
Jeremy, I think.

916
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,640
Yeah, Jeremy.
Yeah, Bridges.

917
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,080
Jeremy Bridges.
Bridges, that's it where they've

918
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,560
got APA now to where it'll just
the cabinets will just kind of,

919
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,200
you know, they've got robotics
and robotics and servos in there

920
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,480
where they'll just open up and
do their own thing And it was

921
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,120
like, you know, that's just.
Yeah, no, I I got last summer, I

922
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:13,480
went in and saw that system and
and it's to me, and I compare it

923
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,960
to when I first saw moving
lights, like when I first saw

924
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,760
lights go like this and and
adjust their beams, I was like,

925
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,400
whoa.
And I have the same feeling like

926
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,880
why would anybody ever want
fixed position lighting again?

927
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,440
When I saw that audio system
move, I got the same feeling.

928
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,600
I was like, why would you want
to drop a rig to the ground and

929
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,440
have to change all of the
rigging and stuff and then lift

930
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,320
it up again and go, okay, yeah,
now it's good.

931
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,640
And when you could.
Just smart.

932
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,280
I think it's just smart.
It's just super smart and it's

933
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,280
really brilliant.
And I remember having, I

934
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,880
remember having breakfast with
Jeremy.

935
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,000
Yeah, this is back when we were
at VR and we were, and we were

936
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,000
like, again, we were like at a
Nam or a, or a nympho com.

937
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,200
And we were having breakfast and
I and you know, there was other

938
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,280
guys at the table and I just
asked him, I was like, what, why

939
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,120
did you do this?
What made you do this?

940
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,240
And then he goes, he goes, well,
you know, we were, you know, I,

941
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,280
I owned a sound company and we
were using, I can't remember

942
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,200
whatever, whatever brand
speakers there were.

943
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,360
And I was like, he was just sick
and tired of, you know, losing

944
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,400
the, the pin that went into it
or, you know, it wouldn't fit or

945
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,280
you get your fingers pinched and
it was like, no, take the motor

946
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,320
no lower.
But it was like all this back

947
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,040
and forth and he goes, I just
got sick of it.

948
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,840
And his dad, I think he think he
told me his dad was a welder or

949
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,600
something like that.
And he just came up with the

950
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:36,200
idea of, you know, basically
taking an amplifier and just

951
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,840
shove it into the, you know,
into the speaker and, you know,

952
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,120
it's, it's a, they've come a
long way since, since we had the

953
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,080
conversation.
But it's funny, I had an audio

954
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,600
guy on recently and I can't
remember who it was, but I had

955
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,800
somebody on my podcast and we
were talking about PK and he

956
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,760
said, you know, yeah.
Oh, it was Sarah would know.

957
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,320
It's her friend.
It's he's a, a guy who does

958
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,440
sound for a, a band from I think
Sweden or Finland or something,

959
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,480
a real metal band, a hardcore
metal band, really good sound

960
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,360
guy.
But we talked about it and he

961
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,600
said, yeah, I saw the demo.
It was kind of cool.

962
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,520
But he said, I can't tell you of
a single situation when I needed

963
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,520
to move the sound system or
readjust, you know, the the

964
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,160
array.
And so he said it's cool, but

965
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,280
I'm sure there's extra cost and
weight there that I'd rather not

966
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,320
have the cost or the weight.
So you know, what seems brutally

967
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,680
obvious to me, I guess to some
might be like an added expense

968
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:35,440
or something.
Yeah, I think.

969
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,640
It's got, it has its, IT has its
place.

970
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,320
You know, it's just, it's one of
those where it just like I said,

971
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,640
it just has it has its place,
you know, and it was like if,

972
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,760
if, if the sound engineer for
the band can, can talk

973
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,240
production into having this and
prove and prove their point.

974
00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:53,720
It's like, man, this is this is
going to save on time and we're

975
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:56,000
going to set up quicker.
And, you know, especially if we

976
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,200
have, you know, if we have three
or four shows in a row, you

977
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,440
know, we didn't mean we're
coming in late to another venue.

978
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,040
You know, this is going to make
the set up a lot quicker and

979
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,360
more efficient.
Absolutely.

980
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,280
Then then why not?
Or, you know, let's say somebody

981
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,000
moves the, you know, the front
barricade by 8 feet or

982
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,760
something, and suddenly, you
know, you need to adjust for the

983
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,520
first five rows or three rows or
whatever.

984
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,600
You know it's a fairly easy
problem to fix, right?

985
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:27,120
And so.
No, I, I think it's brilliant.

986
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,680
To me, it's definitely the next
evolution.

987
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,920
I just hope they don't like
Betamax themselves, you know

988
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,640
what I mean?
Because if they went out and

989
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,880
licensed that to D&B&L
Acoustics, the two giants out

990
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,160
there, right, it would be in
every sound system.

991
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,640
But exactly because they've
patented the hell out of it, L

992
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,040
Acoustics and D&B are gonna be
like, you don't need that.

993
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,400
That's stupid.
You don't need.

994
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,800
You don't need that, yeah.
Yeah.

995
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,280
So we'll see how it goes.
I mean, the future will tell,

996
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:01,160
but I connected them with my
friends at ACT Entertainment and

997
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,120
that's, that's who's
distributing them now in, in

998
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,920
North America.
So they have a real distributor

999
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,560
now with real inventory and, and
people and service and

1000
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:11,440
everything else.
So.

1001
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,120
Is that act lighting acting?
Same company.

1002
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,480
They're called Act Entertainment
now.

1003
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,440
Is it PJ?
PJ is the guy over there or JP?

1004
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:23,120
PJ I I don't know who you're
talking about, Ben, Ben Saltzman

1005
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,520
is the CEO.
That's that's he's my buddy.

1006
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,360
Gotcha.
But it used to be Bob Gordon who

1007
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,880
who was the founder of ACT
Lighting and he sold the company

1008
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:39,760
to Ben and a group of investors.
So yeah.

1009
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,040
So I mean, again, like that's
one of the cool things about

1010
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,160
there's not many cool things
about being old.

1011
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,720
But you know, one of the cool
things is that you got to see

1012
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:54,080
these these crazy generational
changes of the audio business

1013
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,320
and for me, the lighting
business more so, you know,

1014
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:04,120
going from things like lamps to
LE DS was a massive evolution

1015
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,920
for the Yeah, and.
Just the other day, I was

1016
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:11,040
visiting a friend at PRG and I
had, I ran into Clay Powers.

1017
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,680
You know, Clay is, you know,
he's just, he's super brilliant,

1018
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,200
you know, and he was, you know,
he was the president of Shoko,

1019
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,960
you know, that's, he was my
boss, you know, for years.

1020
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,960
And then he went over to the
Vera light side and then the

1021
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,080
VLPS side and then of course the
PRG side, always on the

1022
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,480
manufacturing side.
And he's just, so he's just a

1023
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,000
brilliant person.
And he, I was over there and he

1024
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,920
was outside, you know, smoking a
cigarette on the stairwell.

1025
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,040
And so we started talking and he
was telling me that, you know, I

1026
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,520
can't remember what fixture it
was, but they're basically

1027
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,040
getting rid of all the lights
and putting in all the innards

1028
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,240
to make those lights, No.
LEDL fives, yeah.

1029
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:51,600
Is that what it is?
Yeah, they gutted all their VL

1030
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,160
fives and made them into LE DS
isn't.

1031
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,000
That something, yeah.
So they, they, you know, totally

1032
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,360
cool.
They brought life back back into

1033
00:55:58,360 --> 00:55:59,440
them.
That's like, that's pretty.

1034
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,600
That's pretty smart.
Popular wash light that was ever

1035
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,400
manufactured was the VL 5.
And you know, there's still guys

1036
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,240
out there who who don't want to
use anything else and who think

1037
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:13,640
it's sacrilege that you're
changing the lamp source to to

1038
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,360
LE DS in them, right?
But I mean, it just it's so much

1039
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,080
more sensible.
You know, it's and efficient.

1040
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,480
Yeah, yeah.
Totally.

1041
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,880
Yeah, totally.
Well, you know, the other thing

1042
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,320
is with the whole world being as
concerned as as they should be,

1043
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,880
you know, with with becoming
greener and becoming more

1044
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,280
sustainable.
The cool thing about LED is like

1045
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,240
with all the big moving lights
that were all discharge lights,

1046
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:42,080
not so much with the, the
tungsten or whatever, but with

1047
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:46,320
all the discharge lamps, the gas
discharge lamps, You, you

1048
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,000
couldn't power them down.
So you had to shutter them when,

1049
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,480
when you wanted them to be dark
or off, right.

1050
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,360
And So what they would do is
they'd set the rig up in the

1051
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,800
morning on on tour, they'd set
the rig up in the morning and

1052
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,760
the lights would be on from
like, call it 11:00 in the

1053
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,720
morning until 11:00 at night.
Never.

1054
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,120
Never power them down.
They're just burning energy all

1055
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,600
day, all night.
Whereas with an LED, you turn it

1056
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,000
off.
You know you don't.

1057
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,560
You don't put a shutter in front
of it to dim it, you just dim it

1058
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,320
and shut it off you.
Shut it off and it comes right

1059
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,760
back up where you left it.
Exactly.

1060
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,880
So I mean the that has made a
massive difference for venues

1061
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,800
burning electricity, you know,
during the day for these shows.

1062
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,480
Everything is becoming much more
efficient sound systems, but did

1063
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,400
you ever think you'd see a day
when amplifiers were like, you

1064
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,440
know, 1520 grand for a for a
power amp?

1065
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,680
No, no, I yeah, that's what
blows me away, 'cause I was

1066
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,840
talking to, I was, I was talking
to somebody the other day and

1067
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:53,000
they were like, yeah, so and so
company wants me to become, you

1068
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,840
know, a dealer.
And I was like, well, what do

1069
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,880
you think?
You know, you're going to do it.

1070
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,720
He's like, he goes, man, I just
don't know.

1071
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,240
You know, it's like, you know,
you take this, this speaker,

1072
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,000
let's say.
Speaker X And it's like man,

1073
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,080
after my after my discount and,
and you know, dealer pricing,

1074
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,560
you know, that speaker is going
to cost me $12,000 for one

1075
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,960
speaker.
And then, you know, he pulled

1076
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,920
out the calculator.
He goes, well, let's see, I,

1077
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,520
let's see, I get, you know, X
amount of dollars for that.

1078
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,520
It's simple math, right?
Well, let's take that and time

1079
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,880
and divide it into, you know
what speakers, he goes.

1080
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,680
I have to rent that speaker 88
times to get my money back.

1081
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:28,400
That's crazy.
Think about that.

1082
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,680
And that's just one speaker.
You know what you got to have,

1083
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,840
you know, 4060 plus or whatever.
You know, that's and that's

1084
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,680
where it's tough.
That's why it's like when

1085
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,640
people, when I tell people or
when people tell me rather, you

1086
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:42,680
know, I'm thinking of something
to sound.

1087
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,960
I was like, don't, don't you
know, I was like, it's bad, man.

1088
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:51,480
Just go out of math, It's tough.
Because it's, it's a long, it's

1089
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,920
it's, I think audio is to me.
It's just, yeah, I think it's

1090
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,240
the slowest return, you know
well when.

1091
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,120
You audio's moving faster now
than lighting did in its heyday,

1092
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:06,840
you know, because like, you
know, I just sold somebody a, a

1093
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:13,480
sound system from Europe, a AKSL
rig from Europe into Canada and

1094
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,400
you know, it was almost $800,000
I think.

1095
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:25,040
And you know, the next day or
whatever, I see LMG promoting

1096
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,400
that.
They've got the new L series

1097
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,880
out, you know, on some show or
whatever.

1098
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,680
And I'm like, God, we're going
to be at Z series in no time.

1099
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,560
Yeah, it was like, but I just
got, you know, yeah, like, you

1100
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,520
know, there's.
What's the difference between AJ

1101
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:45,480
series and AK or an L series?
Like the difference is that

1102
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,040
somebody's specking it.
So you got to have it, you know,

1103
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:48,920
that's.
Exactly, right.

1104
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,080
Somebody, there's somebody out
there that's going to want the

1105
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,360
latest and greatest, you know,
And it was like for some of

1106
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,960
these companies, you know,
they'll buy the latest, greatest

1107
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,760
and as soon as they're done with
it, they're selling it and

1108
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,160
they're on to the next, you
know.

1109
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,880
But you know, I remember and I
think it was during COVID, like

1110
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,600
a friend of mine, maybe it was
just before COVID.

1111
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:17,040
A friend of mine bought a GSL
Series, A GSL rig, and that's

1112
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:19,680
ancient now.
And I mean, that was five years

1113
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,040
ago.
You know that was 5.

1114
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,160
Years ago and now it's ancient
like I never see GSL anymore.

1115
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:31,840
Hardly you know it's all J
series Ki mean it's crazy.

1116
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,920
It's just.
And there's and there's nothing

1117
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:35,840
and there's absolutely nothing
wrong with that system.

1118
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,680
You know, it's just they just
came out with something

1119
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,320
different.
You know, they, you know, every

1120
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,520
so many years they got to they
come out with something

1121
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,960
different and and that speaker,
you know, is probably puts out

1122
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,840
more power and it sounds better
and it's just it's always that

1123
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,520
next.
But what is this?

1124
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,840
Like what?
So you know, if if someone was

1125
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,760
to say, hey, I've got AJ series
and AK series, how, how do you

1126
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,520
explain the difference between
AJ series?

1127
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,440
I think the difference on that
were just the components inside

1128
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,920
where maybe the Jays were like,
you know, maybe AA12, whereas

1129
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,080
the next speakers are like it's
a maybe it's a different size

1130
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:16,200
speaker, maybe the maybe the
coverage on it, maybe they have

1131
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,720
a new amplifier that complements
it that's more efficient than

1132
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,280
the than the amplifier from the
old.

1133
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,280
So it's just it's new all the
way around.

1134
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:25,880
It's but.
Again, those yeah, it does blow

1135
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,720
me away.
Like 1520 grand for a for an

1136
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:30,920
amplifier.
And now, and that's another

1137
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,080
thing is just, you know, back in
the day, it was like you would

1138
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,280
never think to you would I never
think to, to buy a self powered,

1139
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:42,160
you know, speaker system.
Because I remember a client

1140
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,120
telling me one time, you know,
he was doing an exhibit.

1141
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,800
He goes, well, Joe, I can't, I
can't have powered speakers, you

1142
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,200
know, up in the air.
I was like, well, why not?

1143
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:51,400
He goes, well, what if something
happens to it?

1144
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,400
What if I lose power?
And then I, I looked him right

1145
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:55,640
in the eye and I go, you know
what?

1146
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,040
The lighting guys and the
projector guys, they've been

1147
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:03,080
running data and power to their
gear for a long time now.

1148
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,080
This isn't any different.
And he kind of rolled his eyes

1149
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,200
and I got him, you know, he was
like, yeah, you're right.

1150
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,120
You're right though, it's
totally true.

1151
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,520
Yeah, it's true.
It was like, you know, and it

1152
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,320
was, and it blew me away that,
you know, I just remember

1153
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,520
reading, it wasn't that long ago
I read an article where, you

1154
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,600
know, before DMX came out, they
were just using RS422, you know,

1155
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,680
9 pin, you know, connectors to
control, you know, some of the

1156
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,840
old, some of the old, the very
first their lights, you know, go

1157
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,080
to a computer, you know, and
then you'd have to have three of

1158
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,720
these computers and each
computer could, could run 32

1159
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,760
lights.
So yeah, the biggest you could

1160
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,840
have is, you know, 96 fixtures
of whatever.

1161
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:43,280
Yeah.
So.

1162
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:49,440
You You and a partner founded a
company, I think in 2020 called

1163
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,120
SAV.
We did.

1164
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:56,160
And that was Brady.
It was that was he's my he's

1165
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,800
he's one of my he's one of my
best friends, you know, and he,

1166
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,800
he and I, like I said, we had
started the audio division for,

1167
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,560
for VER.
You know, we were the two, we

1168
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,440
were the two audio guys.
You know, he lived in, he lived

1169
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,520
in Glendale and I lived, I lived
here in Dallas.

1170
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,440
So, you know, there wasn't a
day, you know, we worked

1171
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,080
together for, for 20 years, you
know, where we just, we were

1172
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,200
the, we were the two guys until,
you know, until we started the,

1173
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,560
the, the VR tour sound part.
And then, you know, there was a

1174
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,720
whole group of people.
We were still involved in it.

1175
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,280
But you know, that was just
another, another, another

1176
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,800
segment of the, of the audio of
VR.

1177
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,640
But our the bread and butter
for, for just VR was just, you

1178
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,400
know, it was just the speakers
on a stick and it was just, you

1179
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,560
know, just whatever we had, you
know, we were just everybody's,

1180
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,080
you know, solution, you know,
when it came to audio and, and

1181
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,000
getting them, you know, the
right gear.

1182
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,240
One time, you know, I'll tell,
I'll just say this.

1183
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,000
It was like, and I always
wondered one time it was like,

1184
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,920
what is the most popular?
What's the most popular thing

1185
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,960
that VR rents on the audio side?
And I had somebody look up the

1186
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,440
data and it turned out to be
this push to talk microphone

1187
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,520
that sure made.
And it was like, if it wasn't on

1188
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:11,560
a show, it was, it was on a
transfer to another office to go

1189
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,320
on a show.
They're constantly moving, you

1190
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,000
know, and that was just, it was
just crazy.

1191
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:21,000
Anyway, he and I decided once,
once the company was sold it, it

1192
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,480
went to a private equity firm
called Catterton.

1193
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,240
And, and sadly, they were just,
you know, they're just a bunch

1194
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,120
of people that weren't, they
didn't, they weren't, that

1195
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,200
wasn't their Forte.
They didn't know about

1196
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,000
production, you know, they just
didn't, you know, they

1197
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,000
questioned a lot of things and
stuff like that.

1198
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:38,000
Yeah.
They just weren't.

1199
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,920
It just wasn't their thing.
And so, you know, like, and,

1200
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,320
and, and they brought in their
own people, of course.

1201
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,800
And, you know, when you bring in
your own people, you know,

1202
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,120
they're not going to listen to
the old people, you know, that

1203
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,120
helped get the company where it
needed to be.

1204
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,120
So it was that.
So they sadly, they ran the

1205
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,600
company, you know, into
bankruptcy, you know, and then

1206
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:03,640
and then, you know, on the flip
side of that, you know, PRG was

1207
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:05,520
kind of in the same boat.
They were just, they were, they

1208
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,520
were struggling financially, you
know, as well.

1209
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:13,040
So the banks put both companies
together and merged both

1210
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,320
companies together.
And that's when and, and, and

1211
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,840
whenever that happens, when
you've got two companies like

1212
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,440
that, you get 2 totally
different cultures, right?

1213
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,440
And that's where things just
kind of went sideways.

1214
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:26,840
You know, it's like, well, who,
who reports to who?

1215
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,160
Or well, we do it this way.
Well, we do it this way.

1216
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:30,920
Well, what software are we going
to use?

1217
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:32,800
Well, let's use this now.
Ours is better.

1218
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,680
OK, let's use.
Now let's go back to y'all's

1219
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,200
because y'all's is more.
It was just, it was just back

1220
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,520
and forth.
And that's when, that's when we

1221
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,120
decided we're, let's just move
on.

1222
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,120
You know, you and I know enough
people to where we could, we

1223
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:48,120
could just, we could start
something different.

1224
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:53,720
And let's just be a, a, a, a
niche company in a, in a more

1225
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,600
specialized field, you know, and
that's when we decided to be

1226
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:03,560
more into comms, more into, you
know, RF and, and, and do that

1227
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,680
and.
So what is what is SAV as a

1228
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:08,560
What's that called?
An acronym.

1229
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,840
It stands for Sound and Sound
and vision, Entertainment and

1230
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,480
Sound and vision was it was a it
was a song from David Bowie.

1231
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,000
This is David Bowie song.
Yeah, it was.

1232
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,040
I think you recorded.
It you were Brady.

1233
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:26,760
But I think Brady came up with
it, you know, so came up with

1234
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:27,640
it.
It's like, let's call it sound

1235
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,360
and vision, OK?
You're you're either, you know,

1236
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,120
a a complete lunatic or a genius
for starting a company in

1237
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,800
January 2020, right at the front
end.

1238
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,000
Yeah, we had no idea.
I remember coming back.

1239
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:44,280
I remember we went to Nam in
Anaheim in 2020 and it was, it

1240
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,040
was packed.
I just remember, I remember

1241
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,000
coming back and I was like,
gosh, I don't, I don't feel

1242
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,640
good, you know, maybe I got the
flu or maybe I got something,

1243
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,560
you know, and it was like, but I
kept, I guess, I guess I just

1244
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,560
got through it.
Or I'm thinking to myself, maybe

1245
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,240
I had Covin and I didn't know
it, you know, but maybe.

1246
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,640
You gave it to all of us, like
maybe you were, you know, maybe

1247
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,760
you were #7 I don't.
Know, but there was just a lot

1248
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,480
of you know, think of all the
people that come from Europe and

1249
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,120
Asia and everywhere to that.
And it was like, you know, this

1250
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,720
was long before you know, there
I am riding the escalator,

1251
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,880
putting my hand on the rail
that's like go up, you know,

1252
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,880
just telling what what was going
on.

1253
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,600
It was like that movie.
You know when they're in the

1254
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,360
movie theater, they got coffee
to see.

1255
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,120
You know.
All the germs go everywhere

1256
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,000
anyway.
So yeah, that was that was

1257
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,360
crazy.
But what really kept us going

1258
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:39,560
was, you know, I think it was
all the TV studios figured out

1259
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,920
how to how to keep it going.
You know, was there going to be

1260
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:46,680
a big convention with a lot of
people where a lot of people can

1261
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:47,400
meet together?
No.

1262
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,160
But can you have a close set and
every people get tested every

1263
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,360
day and and have TV shows and
stuff like that?

1264
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,960
Yeah, absolutely.
But so that's where that's what.

1265
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,200
Did that really look like,
though, like, you know, you

1266
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,040
started the company in January.
You came back from Nam and

1267
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,600
started to realize, hey, there's
something going on here.

1268
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:09,040
By March, obviously it was full
force, but did you guys second

1269
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,320
guess your decision and go God
man, maybe we should maybe this

1270
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,800
isn't the right time to start a.
Company no, no, we just, we just

1271
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,120
kept we just knew that you know,
we had a big gig coming up and

1272
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:27,160
that was the NFL draft and and
at that point we were just like,

1273
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,240
man, how are we going to pull
this off because they wanted to

1274
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,840
do it virtually.
So, so we figured out, you know,

1275
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,760
with the help of, you know,
clear Com and Riedl and some

1276
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,000
other com manufacturers that we
can, we can pull this off.

1277
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,479
It came out with a way where you
can have an there's an app on

1278
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:48,479
your phone where you can, you
can have comms on it and you

1279
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,040
can, you know, we could have a
conversation and you could have

1280
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,960
multiple channels just like if
it was a multi channel belt pack

1281
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,560
or whatever.
So we're able to, we're able to

1282
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,000
pull, we're able to pull that
off, you know, and we're able to

1283
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,279
successfully, you know, do the
draft, you know, and I remember,

1284
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:07,840
you know, we were, you know,
Brady was, you know, I was at

1285
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,279
home.
We had another freelancer, you

1286
01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:12,560
know, at at his house, you know,
in Orlando.

1287
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,000
And then Brady was in his
garage, you know, there in there

1288
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:20,120
in Burbank and or rather in
Glendale, you know, calling the

1289
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,720
shots, you know, here we are
listening to, you know, and

1290
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,319
we're talking to Roger Goodell.
He was in his basement, you

1291
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:29,359
know, you know, calling, you
know, making the pics and stuff.

1292
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:31,120
Like, yeah, it was just, you
look back.

1293
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:35,120
I'm like saying so we're able.
Money that's being spent and

1294
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:37,520
stuff too, right?
Like these people are drafting

1295
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,720
players that are going to.
Get Oh, I know, yeah.

1296
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,160
And everything, yeah.
And everything was just a

1297
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,319
remote.
Everything was a a remote hit.

1298
01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:48,479
And I and and one of the I think
one of the NS, one of the higher

1299
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,680
up NFL guys and we just weren't
connecting with it was always

1300
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,520
something.
And finally we made a phone call

1301
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,040
and I was like, let's can we do
a speed test or whatever?

1302
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:00,640
I know his his Internet was just
really low, you know, and I go,

1303
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:03,320
I go, man, what's going on?
He goes, hang on.

1304
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,680
I think I know what it was.
He had like his two teenage kids

1305
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,400
were in his basement where they
were like gamers just sucking up

1306
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,600
all the bandwidth.
So I was like, you got to stop

1307
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,120
that.
We can't, we can't, we can't.

1308
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,880
You're going to be on TV, you
know, and the producer needs to

1309
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,480
talk to you when you're in your
ear and all this.

1310
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:20,560
And so it was like stuff like
that.

1311
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,000
But it was like, yeah, it was
just.

1312
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,840
So the show show went off OK
though.

1313
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,560
Showing off, showing off great.
You know, we, we actually, we,

1314
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,640
we just pulled off very
stressful, but we pulled it off

1315
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,960
And then, you know, we were able
to do, we had some other

1316
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,480
clients, you know, we were
doing, you know, some, we were

1317
01:10:37,480 --> 01:10:40,560
doing some TV shows.
We do, we do some TV shows in

1318
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:45,240
some game shows in, in, in LA
that we were able to keep that

1319
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,200
going.
And then the sports was still

1320
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:49,680
able to, they were able to
figure it out.

1321
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,680
There weren't any people in the
stands, but they still had a

1322
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,320
production and they still
needed, they still needed to

1323
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,000
have, they still needed to have
comms.

1324
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,840
You know, they still the, you
know, the, the, the, the, you

1325
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:03,360
know, the producers and
directors and we got camera

1326
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,400
people and you got all those
people need to take directions.

1327
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:07,680
And that's.
What, you guys stayed pretty

1328
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,480
busy then?
We stayed, we stayed, we stayed

1329
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:12,080
busy.
And you know, we're, we're,

1330
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,280
we're just, we're like a four
person company.

1331
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,200
You know, it's just myself and
Brady.

1332
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:22,360
We have another person that
works that preps all the gear

1333
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:27,520
and then we've got kind of a
operational guy that gets the

1334
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,960
gear out and checks it in,
checks it out, kind of our

1335
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,640
warehouse operations guy that
you got to have.

1336
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:34,920
And where's your warehouse?
It's.

1337
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:36,960
In Glendale.
OK.

1338
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,080
Yeah.
So you're still, you're still

1339
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:41,560
small like that.
You're still four people.

1340
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,440
Oh.
Wow, No, we're small.

1341
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:46,800
We have we have a long, we have
a long list of freelancers.

1342
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,600
You know that we use that are
that are that are fantastic.

1343
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:53,600
You know that that are go to
people and and and that's it.

1344
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,960
You know, it's so smart because
it's so tempting and so easy to

1345
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,600
grow, you know, and it, it's
like, oh, but you got all these

1346
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,800
shows coming at you.
Look at all this stuff you could

1347
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,480
be doing and next thing you
know, you're, you know, up to

1348
01:12:05,480 --> 01:12:10,320
here in and people and debt and
payroll and all kinds of stuff.

1349
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,840
And that sounds like our, our,
our thing was like, we don't, I

1350
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,800
don't, we don't ever want to
work.

1351
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,920
And, and it's not a knock
against these, these companies,

1352
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,120
but we don't want to work for a
company like like what VER was

1353
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:25,840
or, you know, these other big
box rental companies, you know,

1354
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:27,600
where it's just like, man, we've
already done that.

1355
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:29,400
And we know we.
Don't want to become it You

1356
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,320
definitely.
We don't want to, we don't want

1357
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:34,040
to become it.
And we want to be smart about,

1358
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,400
you know, we want to definitely
be smart about, you know, our

1359
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,000
purchases.
And that's how we were with with

1360
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:45,280
with vents and, and, and VER.
We always treated any of the

1361
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,400
purchases that we had, like if
it was our own money, you know,

1362
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,040
we just, you know, wasn't till
later on where people would

1363
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,360
come, Hey, we need to buy this.
And it was like, you know, at

1364
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,520
that time, you know, the the
other company, they would just

1365
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,360
say yes to everything.
Oh, you think we need, oh, yeah,

1366
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,080
let's buy it.
And it would just sit on the

1367
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,600
shelf or it would do one or two
rentals and it would just sit

1368
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,360
there.
But you know, nobody knew about

1369
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:06,880
it.
It's funny 'cause you mentioned

1370
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:08,880
like their systems were a bit
lacking.

1371
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:13,040
You know, we, we were doing
business on the equipment side

1372
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:18,520
with them in the early 2000s and
they didn't even know where

1373
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:23,040
their stuff was, how much they
had, they had no idea.

1374
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:27,000
Like their inventory control was
just nonexistent.

1375
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,440
I was blown away.
As big as that company, like it

1376
01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:34,640
was just like they just outsold
their losses or whatever, you

1377
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:35,400
know what I mean?
Like.

1378
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:37,480
Right.
No, I start with hearing.

1379
01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:40,000
The sides, but they were
replacing it with so much more

1380
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,120
stuff that you didn't really
notice those losses.

1381
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,720
Yeah, it was like, that was a
perfect example of the left hand

1382
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,200
not knowing what the right hand
is doing.

1383
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,240
I remember hearing stories where
it's like, well, where is this

1384
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:51,200
gear?
It's showing that.

1385
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:52,880
It's showing in the system that
it's available.

1386
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,800
They're like, oh, that that's
it's, it's, it's in a trailer

1387
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,400
somewhere, you know, in in the
Vegas parking lot or something.

1388
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:02,760
I was like, well, I got APO for
it.

1389
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:04,520
We got to rent it.
You know what's going on?

1390
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:05,760
They're like, it's not going to
happen.

1391
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,320
I was like, you know, and then
they were just, and then they

1392
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:11,960
got to the point to where a
buddy of mine was telling me it

1393
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,720
was like, man, you don't believe
what I just bought from VR.

1394
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,240
You know, they're they sold me
all this stuff.

1395
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:20,720
And it was like, you know, it
was stuff that was like, you

1396
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,960
know, I was talking to another
buddy that still works there

1397
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,000
and, you know, I told him it was
like, did you guys need to sell

1398
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:26,840
it?
He was like, no, we need that.

1399
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,280
We've got a show where we need
it.

1400
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:31,480
And it was like, like you said,
is infrastructure stuff like

1401
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:35,280
multi pin stuff and, and you
know, panels and all that stuff

1402
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:38,240
that you don't really
necessarily charge for, you

1403
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,640
know, but it's, it's, it's part
of the.

1404
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,480
Kill without it you got.
To have it, it's like, you know,

1405
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:45,760
it's like selling off the
steering wheel of your car.

1406
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,560
Well, you need the steering
wheel to sell the.

1407
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:49,240
Car you can't get important
sell.

1408
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:50,440
That it's kind of.
Important.

1409
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,280
Yeah.
You know, so that's like nothing

1410
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,880
until, until it's gone.
And then you're like, wait a

1411
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:56,000
second.
Yeah.

1412
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,880
And then you're going back and
you're like, you know, you're

1413
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,200
writing the PO to a cable
manufacturer.

1414
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,040
I mean, can you build this more
than even can you build

1415
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,200
something?
It's like, Oh my gosh, yeah.

1416
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:07,920
And that's when I was like, this
is this isn't good.

1417
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:11,160
You know this is on on the.
Com side of things like other

1418
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,280
than this, this phone technology
that you were talking about has

1419
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,840
have there been any huge
advancements to Clearcom and to

1420
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,760
just Coms in general?
Yeah, there's a so there's a

1421
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,200
company out there, You know,
back in the day, it was just

1422
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:24,880
Clearcom.
It was almost like a it was a

1423
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:26,720
buzzword like Kleenex or cool.
Yeah, Yeah.

1424
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:31,360
And that was just, it was just a
way for, you know, people to

1425
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:34,520
communicate with each other.
You know, it was just a, you

1426
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,840
know, back in the day it was
just a, you know, they just had

1427
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,720
single channel, you had a single
channel belt pack and you know,

1428
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,240
you're able to talk to everybody
was on a single channel, you

1429
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,600
know, and now they have it to
where, you know, then they built

1430
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,520
it up to where it's like, oh,
you got a 2 channel belt pack.

1431
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,800
So channel one could be like
production and then channel two

1432
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,240
could be, you know, whoever else
want to talk.

1433
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,120
And then it just kept on growing
to where then you had more of a

1434
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,120
matrix system, you know, where
it's like, Hey, let's put all

1435
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,040
the lighting guys, you know, on
Channel 2 and then we'll get the

1436
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,920
audio guys and they can be on a
different, and then you can get

1437
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,720
the fall fucker.
And then you just start

1438
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:08,720
spreading out.
And then, but now, you know,

1439
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,080
with the truck companies and
stuff, they've always had matrix

1440
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,640
systems to where you know,
you've got multiple, multiple

1441
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:19,800
channel party lines that can,
you know, different groups and,

1442
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,960
and different groups can, can
talk to each other, you know,

1443
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,920
different departments.
So, so a company out of Germany,

1444
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:33,120
they came out, a company called
Riddle came out and they just,

1445
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:38,000
they came out with just IP based
stuff and they just came out

1446
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:41,800
with just their own software.
And they're just a program where

1447
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,320
they just made it just a lot
easier and more versatile than

1448
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:49,040
any COM system out there where
you could have, you know,

1449
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,160
multiple party lines, you could
have, it was just multiple

1450
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,040
groups and conferences and you
could just go, you just go

1451
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,000
bananas.
You could just, you could do

1452
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,360
whatever you needed to do.
And that's, that was really,

1453
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:01,840
that's where that really changed
things around.

1454
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,800
Yeah.
And completely like what about

1455
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:08,040
has sound quality gotten better?
Have ranges gotten better?

1456
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,360
Way, way better now.
Now, you know, Riddle came out

1457
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:13,840
with a belt pack that's just so
robust.

1458
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,080
You know, it's a imagine having
a bell pack that's got six

1459
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,840
buttons on it, and those six
buttons can be whatever you want

1460
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:21,640
them to be.
It's like you and I can just

1461
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,200
have a point to point
conversation, or you can listen

1462
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:28,560
to the entire production or you
can just listen to, you know,

1463
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,960
you can just listen to the the
show caller.

1464
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:35,880
You can listen to, you know, the
lighting guys or the, OR the LD

1465
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:41,360
speak to the speak to the, to
the, the follow spot guys, you

1466
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:44,680
know, and give them direction,
which you know, I always the

1467
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:47,760
cool thing about coms is that
you're listening to, it's almost

1468
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:53,120
like the, the old, you know,
black and white, you know,

1469
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,360
movies that you see where you
see somebody behind a big

1470
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,320
switchboard operator and you see
a line of ladies and they're

1471
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,640
just, you know, playing
switchboard operators and

1472
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,280
they're listening to every
conversation.

1473
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,800
It's real similar to that to
where, you know, think of it as

1474
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,520
you're mixing monitors for a
bunch of different people out

1475
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:12,800
there and you're giving them
what they want to hear.

1476
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:17,920
But it's it has to do with comms
and comms is how you communicate

1477
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:20,800
in a big production, you know,
and when you want to hear

1478
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:24,640
somebody come unglued because,
you know, a producer or director

1479
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:30,000
can't talk to a stage manager or
speak to, you know, a camera guy

1480
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,400
to get a certain shot.
And then it's just, it's just

1481
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:34,440
crazy.
It's AI and I'm always amazed

1482
01:18:34,440 --> 01:18:37,400
how things just end up on TV
sometimes with just.

1483
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:39,480
You say that.
Goes on which?

1484
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,920
Well, which is what goes on
behind the scenes, you know.

1485
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,720
Yeah, you know, you mean in like
a a live situation, like a

1486
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:47,960
sporting.
Life situation sometimes, yeah,

1487
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,480
it was like.
And sometimes you just you know,

1488
01:18:50,480 --> 01:18:54,520
how TV is a lot different in
production wise sometimes than

1489
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,360
what you see in touring.
Like touring, you know, they've

1490
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:01,240
got all the great connectors and
you know, every cable is black

1491
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,480
and everything's twisted this
and that.

1492
01:19:03,480 --> 01:19:08,520
And you know, in, in production,
I mean in, in, in TV sometimes,

1493
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,400
especially live TV, you see guys
running orange extension cables

1494
01:19:12,440 --> 01:19:14,920
or red extension cables and
they're plugging into the wall

1495
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:18,720
into a power strip fiber things
plugged into it.

1496
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:21,280
And was like, if any of those
things were to turn off or go

1497
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,800
wrong, I almost feel like your
TV would just be snow, like you

1498
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,960
wouldn't like it would just
something horrific would happen,

1499
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,320
you know?
And I was like, how, what, how

1500
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:31,520
is?
This, you know, well, I guess

1501
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:34,320
it's because they're sort of
building it on the spot, right?

1502
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:38,040
As opposed to building it.
For every situations different

1503
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,160
and it was just some of it's you
know, some of it is fly by the

1504
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:43,440
seat of your pants.
Some of it is just you know,

1505
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:46,240
it's kind of it's it's just it's
just temporary.

1506
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,440
You know, in a few days it's
just or, or that night it's

1507
01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:50,880
going to be gone.
You know it's not.

1508
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,200
And they're not going, they're
not packing it up and going to

1509
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,600
the next city.
It's going on a truck and then

1510
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,920
you don't know if you're going
to see it, you know, on the next

1511
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,560
gig or forever, whatever.
Yeah, that's, it's just an

1512
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,280
interesting comment, you know,
like I'm amazed at that, how

1513
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,400
some of these things end up on
TV, you know?

1514
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,120
Yeah, it's just, yeah.
It's just, it's amazing how

1515
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:15,240
things and, and what I like
about what, what makes it really

1516
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:19,400
cool on the com side is that
when you, it's the only

1517
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,880
department, I think is that
you're able to work with all the

1518
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:26,600
other departments.
So with comms, you're able to

1519
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:29,440
work with the graphics people,
you work with the truck people,

1520
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,880
you work with the house sound
guys and the lighting guys.

1521
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,640
And you work with, you know, you
work with the stage managers,

1522
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:40,880
you work with every, every
aspect of a production.

1523
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,480
You know, to, to, to create to
what you see on TV or, or you

1524
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,640
know, whatever, if it's a
concert or whatever.

1525
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:50,120
And every, you're working with
all of them.

1526
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:53,040
And I always tell the younger
guys, it's like, if you know

1527
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,160
how, if you know how a
production gets put together,

1528
01:20:56,160 --> 01:21:00,560
you know, for TV or, or even
live, you know how things, you

1529
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:04,040
know what the flow is and how
things operate, you're just that

1530
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:06,840
much more valuable to the, to
the overall production.

1531
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:11,600
You know, so is is your like?
Your main business is comms.

1532
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,720
It's it's, I would say it's 90%
comms.

1533
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:20,400
We do a lot of and and and that
and yeah, and that is both I

1534
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:24,720
would say that's both us going
out and, and working, you know,

1535
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,840
the events and, and being there
on site.

1536
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,240
And also just straight up dry
hire rentals.

1537
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:30,640
There's plenty of companies that
call us.

1538
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,720
Hey, I, I need this.
We just, you know, we'll just

1539
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,160
send it out if they can pick it
up or, or just, or whatever.

1540
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,680
But we do a lot of sports.
We do a lot of sporting events,

1541
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,160
whether it's, you know, the
Super Bowl, well, Super.

1542
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:45,040
Bowl.
And we do.

1543
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:47,280
What do you do?
The Super Bowl, All the comms.

1544
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:52,440
We do, we do all the comms that
has to do with just the show

1545
01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:54,640
itself.
So just like any other show,

1546
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,440
there's a script and there's,
you know, at, at the, at the,

1547
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,840
you know, at 4:19, they're going
to, they're going to do a hit

1548
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:03,840
and they're going to do a
satellite reporter's going to do

1549
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,480
a hit down on the ground or
they're going to do a promotion

1550
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:08,040
or, you know, there's a script
to follow.

1551
01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:12,280
So we do the, we work real
closely with the guys at, at Van

1552
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:15,840
Wagner and they're the ones who
actually produce, you know, the,

1553
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:17,280
the home shows, you know, so
you're.

1554
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:19,520
Not doing like the coach to the
quarterback.

1555
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:24,320
Or any no, no, no, no, no, no.
The NFL, the NFL has their own,

1556
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,080
they have their own group of
people that just do that.

1557
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:30,280
And it's a it's another, it's
another, it's another

1558
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,720
manufacturer that do that.
And what about half time

1559
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:35,520
halftime?
ATK does that.

1560
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:41,280
OK, so ATK is part of, is part
of, well, they were, they're

1561
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:42,720
part of Claire now.
Yeah.

1562
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:46,120
So they do, they do the they do
the halftime.

1563
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,800
So they do the halftime and they
do all the halftime

1564
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,960
entertainment.
And then we do everything of we

1565
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:55,400
do the whole game itself from
from, from all the pageantry,

1566
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:58,080
you know, the national anthem
and all the stuff that happens

1567
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:02,320
before the game, during the
game, after the game, all the

1568
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:05,600
trophy presentation and any, any
cool stories.

1569
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:10,200
Any massive crashes or anything?
There's been crashes, but you

1570
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,680
know, it's just, it's part of
the things that happened, you

1571
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:16,800
know, and it was, it was just
recently where, you know, we,

1572
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,720
we, and when we really work
closely with the manufacturers

1573
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,440
on this, where we'll, we'll
bring, you know, somebody in

1574
01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:26,040
from the manufacturing site and
this is like your biggest gig.

1575
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,240
So we should, you guys need to
be here, you know, 'cause

1576
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:32,720
there's, there's a lot going on.
And in the early days it was

1577
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:36,720
tough because before, and this
is, this is all wireless stuff

1578
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:39,760
that we're talking about is that
it was just tough.

1579
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:42,240
You know, there was a lot of
frequency coordinating and it

1580
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:44,600
was just, you know, you just got
to cross your fingers, you know,

1581
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,800
'cause it's live, you know, it's
like anything can happen, you

1582
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,640
know, And, but now it's like,
you know, we're able to, you

1583
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:54,920
know, work with the SEC and, and
work it to where, you know,

1584
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,840
Regal, you know, I mean ATK, you
know, they're doing the half

1585
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,920
before they would be like, OK,
during halftime, you know, we'll

1586
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,920
turn off all our packs and our
antennas and then when it's

1587
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:06,440
over, then we'll just switch
back.

1588
01:24:06,440 --> 01:24:08,920
And it was just all this back
and forth and it was like, now

1589
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:12,960
it's now I think we've, we've
finally, I think we've got it.

1590
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,200
You know, so is that like the
biggest show you're doing every

1591
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:17,280
year or?
It's, believe it or not, the

1592
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,440
biggest, one of the biggest
shows we do is, is the NFL

1593
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:23,360
draft, you know, and that's,
there's a lot of moving parts to

1594
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,840
that because you're working
with, you're working with the

1595
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:28,880
NFL Network, you're working with
the NFL and you're working with

1596
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:31,160
ESPN.
And there's, so there's multiple

1597
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:34,680
things, you know, going on.
You know, there's a lot of

1598
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:38,200
remote hits though.
They'll have people like we had,

1599
01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:41,560
we had to get comms to somebody
in Australia because they wanted

1600
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:45,200
to do the presentation.
Like, you know, if you ever seen

1601
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:48,280
the draft, they'll be like, and
now so and so is going to

1602
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:52,400
announce the 42nd pick and he'll
be somewhere remote and these

1603
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:54,360
guys are like on the beach
somewhere, you know?

1604
01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:56,440
Oh, wow.
So it was like, yeah, it was

1605
01:24:56,440 --> 01:24:58,840
something like that where it was
like, there's just a lot,

1606
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,640
there's just a lot of moving,
moving parts to it.

1607
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:05,040
So comms there's kind of so.
NFL's a big client for you,

1608
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:08,320
though.
NFL is the NFL is a good one.

1609
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,120
And like I said, we worked
along.

1610
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:13,520
We work with Van Wagner.
You know, they're the ones who

1611
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:16,680
bring us in and we're working
with them on stuff like that.

1612
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:19,720
We do, we do some, some decent
amount of corporate shows and

1613
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:22,640
you know, not that long ago,
it's just a couple of months

1614
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:24,600
ago, we did a rodeo.
We've I've never worked with

1615
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,320
live animals before.
It was the craziest thing, you

1616
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:30,160
know.
So yeah, lot of, lot of sporting

1617
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:35,400
national championships for we do
the US Open, we do just big, we

1618
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:37,040
just do, we do sporting.
Sarah said.

1619
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,080
You know, you've worked with
three US presidents.

1620
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:39,560
Who are they?
Who?

1621
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,120
Didn't I work for?
Well, I've worked with.

1622
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:46,840
Who did I work with?
I worked with AI, worked with

1623
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:55,680
George Bush, George W Bush, and
worked with President, President

1624
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:57,720
Biden.
OK.

1625
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:00,560
All three of them, whether it
was just, you know, some of them

1626
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,040
was actually me, like, you know,
running sound.

1627
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,080
I've got the, you know, my
hands, my fader, my hands on the

1628
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:08,720
fader, you know, controlling his
microphone, you know, kind of a

1629
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:13,000
corporate event.
And then the other one was just,

1630
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:16,000
you know, doing comms, you know.
Oh, yeah, that's cool.

1631
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:18,880
You know, they do a, we do a lot
of these Department of State

1632
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:23,840
type, you know, events, you
know, in, in DC, you know, so,

1633
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:26,880
yeah, no, it's fun.
It's so it's you just you just

1634
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:28,280
like I say, you never know who
you're going to meet.

1635
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:33,800
And like I said, it's just fun
to work with other, other

1636
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:36,680
departments and see how they and
see how they operate.

1637
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,880
Of course, I have an affinity
towards the audio guys cuz I was

1638
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,440
the audio guy and there's a good
chance that, hey, do you know so

1639
01:26:42,440 --> 01:26:43,840
and so, Yeah, I know.
So it's, yeah, I know.

1640
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,000
I used to work here.
So there's always, it's always

1641
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,200
fun to talk to the audio guys.
Do you have any crazy

1642
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:51,520
predictions on on gear, like
where you think something's

1643
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:55,080
going or where you'd like to see
it go or?

1644
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,360
Gosh, you know, I, I always said
I was like, man, that would, you

1645
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,800
know, back and it's already
happened.

1646
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,160
But I was like, boy, that'd be
cool if you could just walk

1647
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,720
around with your phone, you
know, just make it just, well,

1648
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:09,440
they already have that, you
know, they already came out with

1649
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:14,120
that, you know, it's like, so
you know, yeah, I don't know

1650
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:16,120
why.
So I just, I, you know, I think

1651
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:17,400
of it.
I was like, boy, that'd be cool

1652
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,520
if we did that, but I was like,
I don't, you know?

1653
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:23,320
Well AII think is playing a
massive role in a lot of

1654
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:24,680
different things.
Audio like.

1655
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,160
That's the thing too, where it
was like, gosh, are we going to

1656
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,120
be out of a gig?
I talked to the guys and I was

1657
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:33,880
like, can a can, can AI just,
you know, can somebody make a

1658
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:38,200
request and and, you know, all
of a sudden, you know, we're out

1659
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:41,560
of a gig and they make the com
change for you or something like

1660
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:42,840
that.
Somebody still physically has

1661
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:45,480
to, you know, set it up and and
stuff like that.

1662
01:27:45,480 --> 01:27:47,480
But yeah.
You know, I think there's a lot.

1663
01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:50,240
Of I don't know.
There's a lot of aspects of, of

1664
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:54,200
what you do, what we do, what
the world does that you know,

1665
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:56,680
you're, you're obviously still
going to need people doing it.

1666
01:27:56,680 --> 01:28:01,520
But I to me, I still try to look
at the positive side of

1667
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:04,640
everything.
AI to you know it's going to

1668
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:08,000
help you, it's going to make you
more productive, It's going to

1669
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:11,160
make you better at your job, not
take your job away from you.

1670
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,400
For sure.
I think people who use AI are

1671
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:17,760
going to become more value than
valuable than people who don't.

1672
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:19,720
Is is really where it's going to
come down I.

1673
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:23,160
Think it's just, you know, you
use it to your discretion and

1674
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,280
you know, you can use it or, or
you can't, you know, just use

1675
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:27,760
it.
I think you use it, like you

1676
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:31,320
said, maybe just use it as a
tool, you know, to, to, to help

1677
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:32,960
you along.
Somebody had told me that there

1678
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,280
was an, an AI that you could
listen to somebody.

1679
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:37,960
Let's say you're, you know,
you're middle of an arena,

1680
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:39,160
you're running sound for
whoever.

1681
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:43,720
And it would listen to your mix
and then it would tell you, hey,

1682
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:47,120
on the lead vocal, you know, and
it would just tell you, you

1683
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:50,160
know, how to EQ it or what, what
it needs to make it.

1684
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:53,040
And it was like, man, that's
tough because it was like, well,

1685
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:55,560
how do they know?
It's how do you know what makes

1686
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:57,680
them right?
You know, like, you know,

1687
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:00,480
because audio is just so
subjective.

1688
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:02,720
You know, well, but I think
you're going to be able to dial

1689
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:07,040
in the subjective, you know.
So I I want a warmer sound.

1690
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,400
I want a this sound.
I want a more this sound.

1691
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:16,480
I want it the stones in 1976 at
you know, whatever.

1692
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:19,040
I want it to sound like that,
you know?

1693
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:23,000
Yeah, I had a friend that that
worked for a Shoko, you know,

1694
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:25,800
Alanis Morissette was one of the
artists at that we did.

1695
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:29,080
And I want to say it was either
the monitor guy or the, or the,

1696
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:31,680
or the front of house guy.
She would just come out on stage

1697
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,440
and do soundtracks.
She's like like, man, my my

1698
01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:38,080
monitors just sound.
It sounds like a dusty addict.

1699
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:41,480
It was like what?
And then after a while, or she'd

1700
01:29:41,480 --> 01:29:44,960
say things are like, it just
sounds like, it sounds like an

1701
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,680
old shoe.
And then he kind of figured out

1702
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:50,960
he'd make an adjustment.
So then he'd have like, you

1703
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:52,440
know, he'd have his notes,
right?

1704
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:56,240
And then he's like.
And then down, you know the

1705
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:58,080
Yeah.
It was like turn down the mids.

1706
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:02,080
It was like, oh, shoe means you
know, add 2 DB of you know,

1707
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:06,320
whenever the formula was and it
was like he'd have a hilarious.

1708
01:30:06,440 --> 01:30:10,160
List of of that hilarious.
That is so funny.

1709
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:13,160
How do you make that up?
Right, a glossary of, you know,

1710
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:17,600
Alanis Morissette audio terms.
100% that's exactly what it was.

1711
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:19,480
Yeah, the artists are always
right though.

1712
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:21,320
You know that, Joe?
Exactly right.

1713
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:22,240
I mean they.
They know it.

1714
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:24,600
If you want to keep your job,
you want, of course.

1715
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:26,200
Yeah, you want to do what they
told you?

1716
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:27,640
To do yes, ma'am.
No ma'am.

1717
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:30,520
Did we miss anything?
I feel like we have.

1718
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:33,400
We've talked about a lot of
stuff.

1719
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:35,960
Yeah, I don't.
Yeah, I can't think of.

1720
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:37,600
Did you know?
Did you know Randy Wade?

1721
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,800
I do know Randy Wade.
Speaking of Shoko and audio.

1722
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:43,480
Had talked to him not that long
ago.

1723
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:46,280
I knew him through mutual
friends.

1724
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,200
I I know him through all the
guys from like George Strait.

1725
01:30:49,480 --> 01:30:52,720
They kind of hang around that he
kind of hangs around that that

1726
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:57,640
circle of of of guys.
But yeah, I remember he would he

1727
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,960
would use VERI think he was
working for Usher maybe or Janet

1728
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:05,520
Jackson or one of those he.
Was audio analyst for a long

1729
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,520
time and I think he worked at
Show Co.

1730
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:12,120
Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure he
worked that show.

1731
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:13,640
Randy, Randy.
Wait.

1732
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:16,800
Was he was he a lighting guy?
He was.

1733
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:19,040
There's an Eric Wait.
Eric, wait.

1734
01:31:19,480 --> 01:31:20,680
Yeah, Eric, wait.
I think I'm sorry.

1735
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:21,480
There's Eric.
Wait.

1736
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:23,360
There's a Randy.
Wait.

1737
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:27,120
Randy sounds very familiar.
He was a Dallas guy as well, but

1738
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:28,720
I I'm.
The Randy, he was a Randy

1739
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:30,640
Bryant.
I know Randy Bryant.

1740
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:33,720
You know he would go by Rainbow.
No, I was just wondering if you

1741
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:36,080
knew Randy Wade because he
passed away, I don't know, two

1742
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:38,320
years ago now probably.
Yeah, No, I heard about that.

1743
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:42,080
No, I, I, I knew him, but we
weren't, you know, just more of

1744
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:43,880
the acquaintance.
There's so many people, it's

1745
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:45,920
hard to know everybody.
It is.

1746
01:31:46,480 --> 01:31:49,760
It is just recently.
I appreciate you taking the time

1747
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:52,560
to do this.
And, and like I said at the

1748
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:54,720
front end, it's always fun
getting to know new people.

1749
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:59,720
So, you know, I, I enjoy it a
lot and I learned about comms.

1750
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:02,360
You learned about comms.
It's very important.

1751
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:04,400
It is.
It's part of a production.

1752
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:06,360
You got to have it.
Oh, it's you got to, you got to

1753
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,760
again, take it away like the
steering wheel, you know, take

1754
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:11,720
away comms and let me see how
you do your show.

1755
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:15,640
Be ugly.
It's tough, it's ugly, it gets,

1756
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:20,880
it gets, it's, it's pretty bad.
I'm more than happy to, to, to

1757
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,520
e-mail you guys back.
I I could I could come up with

1758
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:25,880
probably a notebook page of
people you could talk to that

1759
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:27,880
are.
We appreciate that very much.

1760
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,160
All the time.
They're really good, you know.

1761
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:34,680
Good stories, great knowledge.
You know, like we get young

1762
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,040
people and old people that
listen to our podcast.

1763
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:40,040
So a lot of times it's younger
people just trying to figure out

1764
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:44,800
how the old guys like me did it.
Not that I did anything, but you

1765
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:47,560
know, older people in the
lighting space, older people in

1766
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:51,280
audio, you know, how they got
successful, how they did what

1767
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:54,480
they did and then sort of try to
follow that path hopefully.

1768
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:56,680
Yeah, mine was just a little bit
of both.

1769
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:59,880
You know, I went to college, but
then I also just wanted to, you

1770
01:32:59,880 --> 01:33:02,880
know, I just, I kept at it and
I've made and I like I tell all

1771
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:04,720
the young guys like I've made
every mistake.

1772
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:09,320
I've left gear in the warehouse.
I've, you know, ran cables

1773
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:13,160
backwards.
I, you know, I showed up late

1774
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:14,800
to, I showed up for the day
before.

1775
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:16,600
I showed up the day after.
I missed flight.

1776
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:18,120
It was like every mistake you
can make.

1777
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:21,440
I've made them all, you know,
and, and the young guys always

1778
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,360
asked like, well, what piece of
advice, you know, I'm running

1779
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,880
sound for this band.
I was like, you know what, what

1780
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:28,640
advice can you give me?
I was like #1 job in audio.

1781
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:31,320
If you're going to run sound for
a band, run sound for a good

1782
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:34,040
band.
You know, run sound for a band

1783
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:37,880
that, you know, singer knows how
to sing, guitar player's got a

1784
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:40,120
good tone, you know, it's
helpful.

1785
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:42,480
It makes your job way easier.
If you run sound for a good

1786
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:46,440
band, man, you're just, yeah,
you're pushing.

1787
01:33:46,440 --> 01:33:49,200
But also when you do something
stupid, have a great attitude

1788
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:52,680
about it, you know, own it, have
a good attitude, you know, and

1789
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,280
it makes such a difference.
Like when you start blaming

1790
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:57,000
other people, it doesn't go very
far.

1791
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,680
No, no, people nowadays, people
just, they'll just pick you off.

1792
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:04,200
And you know, and, and I say
that to young guys too, it's

1793
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,560
like don't, if you're going to
show up late, then just don't,

1794
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:08,320
don't bother showing up.
Yeah.

1795
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:10,080
Because that's, that's a big
part of it.

1796
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:13,800
Show up, show up on time and,
and, and if you don't know, tell

1797
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:15,320
them you don't know.
You know, it's just.

1798
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:19,040
You know, what are we married?
I was married over 20 years to

1799
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:20,520
somebody who is late for
everything.

1800
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,160
And I'm one of these people
who's nuts, who has to be early

1801
01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:26,520
for everything.
And so I'm now divorced and my

1802
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:29,120
girlfriend now and I are exactly
the same.

1803
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:31,560
Like, you know, 10 minutes
before you're late.

1804
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:34,240
You know you're late if you're
only there 10 minutes early.

1805
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:37,320
And so it's much.
Easier Zero.

1806
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:39,560
I have zero patience for that.
I just me too.

1807
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:41,200
Drives me bananas.
Yeah, me.

1808
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:43,760
Too, you know, you know, and
running to the gate for a

1809
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:45,960
flight.
I just, you know, why create

1810
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:47,760
that kind of anxiety when you
don't?

1811
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:49,240
Need to know.
I know.

1812
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:50,440
That's crazy.
I know.

1813
01:34:50,440 --> 01:34:53,200
And you think people like that
would learn their lesson?

1814
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:56,600
Just, you know, we're not my ex.
I never want to do that again,

1815
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:58,040
you know?
Not my ex-wife.

1816
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:01,120
Yeah, no way.
Yeah, just yeah.

1817
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:03,000
Jeez all.
Right, Joe.

1818
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:04,960
Well, thank you so much for
taking the time to do this.

1819
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:06,800
Thanks, Marcel.
Are you going to go to Infocom?

1820
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:08,760
You know what?
I'm not.

1821
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:12,080
I, I am going to Canada next
week.

1822
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:12,920
Oh.
That's right, you told me.

1823
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:16,840
That and I was going to come
back a week later for Infocom,

1824
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,480
but I don't think I'm going to
as of right now.

1825
01:35:19,480 --> 01:35:22,440
So if I do though, I'll look you
up.

1826
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:26,920
Thank you for sure.
And tell Brad, I said hey.

1827
01:35:27,440 --> 01:35:29,480
Of course, absolutely got it.
Will do.

1828
01:35:29,480 --> 01:35:31,680
OK, All right, man.
So I'm not gonna touch anything,

1829
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:32,400
right?
Don't.

1830
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:34,440
Nope, Nope.
We're all good.

1831
01:35:49,440 --> 01:35:49,560
None.