#246 - Mike “FINN” Finocchiaro

0:01 Hello and thanks for joining me for episode #246. Today's podcast is brought to you by Main Light, a national dry hire rental provider specializing in supplying the latest lighting and stage equipment technology. Their extensive rental inventory includes moving lights, trust solutions, control consoles, LE DS, and an array of weather resistant IP65 rated fixtures perfect for outdoor venues. Whether for theater productions, outdoor stadium events, or TV film broadcast, Main Light is the partner you trust with the gear you want. Committed to quality and reliability, Main Light also provides a robust selection of used sales options to their clients.

0:47 Each item is meticulously maintained, owned by Main Light and comes with a 60 day depot warranty, providing you with confidence in your purchase. Strategically located across the US, their four locations include tri-state in Teterboro, Wilmington, DE, Nashville, TN, and Las Vegas, NV. They combine the vast resources of a national company with the attentive, personalized service of a local provider. Discover how Main Light can equip your next event by visiting mainlight.com today to get a direct quote through their comprehensive online ordering platform.

1:28 And today's podcast is also brought to you by Elation, who proudly introduced True Tone Technology, a groundbreaking innovation empowering lighting designers to fine tune CRI from a single fixture to achieve optimal lighting fidelity. With True Tone, designers can adjust CRI within a range from 70 to 93, enabling them to strike the perfect balance between color accuracy and brightness. The flexibility to adjust color rendering in a single fixture allows for a host of versatile applications. Picture illuminating a presenter with high CRI key light, then seamlessly transitioning to a rock performance with full on power looks. Or imagine spotlighting the newest model car during an auto show launch event, showing off its true color, then adjusting to illuminate a performer on stage for high fidelity broadcast true tones.

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3:23 OK, so that was a little weird. I have AI, have a temporary system I'm using right now and I'll tell you more about that in a few minutes. But yeah, it's causing me a little bit of anxiety and some funkiness, but we'll get through it 'cause that's what we do. We make it work. And so anyways, I want to dedicate at least part of the intro today to our, and I say our, I mean our, the industry great friend, Craig Burrows, who of course passed away last week sadly and tragically and suddenly.

4:03 And so yes, Craig was sick. Yes, Craig had a very, very angry bout of cancer that came back a couple of times. We don't yet know if that's ultimately what caused his demise, but I guess there's some suspicion around that. But anyways, yeah, we thought he beat it and sadly, Craig is gone now. And so my own story, I know everyone has theirs. My story, basically Craig and I met in the early 90s and at the time he was already at High end Systems and I was at Martin. And one thing I would say is Craig was a fierce but fair and fun competitor.

4:48 And, you know, every time we saw each other at trade shows, at, you know, bars at trade shows, inevitably and or even, you know, crossed paths at a customer demo or whatever it was, Craig was always super cool. He'd, you know, we'd hug or we'd shake hands or whatever it was. And we could always have a beer as buddies and you know, and then try and gut each other in the sale, you know, try, try to kill each other in a sale, but but hugging it out at the bar afterwards or whatever, right. It reminds me of UFC fighters. But you know, I we just hit it off right away. I always said this guys cool. You know, I I love high end systems. I really like Craig.

5:31 I really like Robert Mochrie. I really like Richard Bellevue and Lowell Fowler. Like he was just one of those guys that was just such a cool part of such a cool company. And you know, to me, Craig, Robert, Richard Lowell, Bob, you know, they symbolized what high end was. And and you know, really that to me was the company when all those guys were gone, that company to me in a lot of ways just disappeared because, you know, product is product is product. I think we're showing that right now. The industry is showing that, you know, everybody's got really great products. So at the end of the day, it really still comes down to who the people are that you're dealing with in these companies.

6:15 And you know, to me, Craig was one of the founders of that philosophy. And as was I, I probably was as well. I had a lot of friends when I worked at moving light companies. And you know, some of those friends were competitors, some were customers, some were whatever. And then, you know, eventually I left Martin and I got a really weird call from High End to come and meet with them and possibly join them. And I did meet with them and they pretty much rolled out the red carpet and brought me on to their team. Again, a funny story, me and Wiseman, both the exact same day, started in the company and we were both a secret. So we both showed up in their building and everyone just kind of went, what are these guys doing here? And you know, even Craig didn't know. Craig Mochrie, they didn't know.

7:03 So when we showed up, they kind of went, whoa, what is going on here? And you know, one of the stories I don't think I've ever shared is, is Craig and I Craig took me under his wing on his first Northeast or on my first NE road trip as a high end employee. And Craig always handled the northeaster, not always, but for a long period of time, Craig handled the Northeast for high end. And so he introduced me to Itis. That was I think the first time I met Itis was with Craig on this road trip in 1997, I believe. And we were in a meeting with Dean Danowitz at Starlight, one of the local competitors to Main light and still very successful company.

7:52 And I met Dean. He introduced me to Dean. And remember some of these people, I didn't know them because back in the early days of moving lights, you had your brand, you were a high end house, you were a very lighthouse, you were a Clay Paki house, you were a Martin house. And you really didn't cross over those lines very often. So I didn't have access, plus I didn't have the product to compete with high end in most cases, but I didn't have access to the high end dealers, customers. And so whenever, you know, high end had these, you know, like the main lights of the world generally, there were people that I could wave to at a trade show and they might know who I am, but I was never selling them product.

8:37 I didn't have a relationship with them. So anyways, we're sitting in Dean Danowitz's office and I don't think we had any product with us. But Dean wanted to bring up a complaint and Craig said, shoot, bring it. And he says the Nebula Hazer, you know, you made me buy eight of these things or whatever number it was 4, two, I don't even remember. But you made me buy these nebula hazers. And those of you who are young probably don't remember that High End made a product called a Nebula Hazer. Nebula was a cool name for it. It was nebulous. It was, it was probably not the best product High End ever made.

9:17 And Dean made us very much aware of that. Dean said Craig, The thing is shit. And Craig didn't even try to defend it. Like he'd, and I'm sorry, Lowell and Richard, if you're listening. But instead of trying to defend a bad product, Craig had the greatest line. And I, I remember it almost verbatim right up to this day. And I've used it myself a couple of times since then. But Craig just in his Texas accent said, well, you know, everyone has to kick out a turd every now and then. And I just cracked up. And Dean tried to hold the straight, straight face and then he cracked up as well.

9:59 And, you know, it's just to this day, it strikes me as one of the greatest all time comebacks to, you know, your product is shit. He just said, you're right, it's shit. And every once in a while you make a mistake, we make a mistake. But the way he said it was, you know, everyone kicks out a turd eventually. And yeah, it was just classic Craig. You know, he wasn't going to lie. You know, he wasn't going to make up excuses and and tell you our products great. And you just don't know how to use it properly or whatever. That just wasn't him. And right up until last week, you know, I mean, that's just how Craig conducted himself. It's how he did business. And it's probably why he has so many friends who have been his customers for 25 or 30 years. You know, another thing is during COVID, Craig and I spoke pretty much weekly.

10:50 You know, Craig was quite often, if not always part of the weekly Zoom calls that I was doing and really showed a lot of leadership on those calls and, and just mentorship and guys, we're going to get through this, you know, don't worry, we'll get through this. But in between those, those happy hour calls that I was doing every Wednesday, him and I would speak often and you know, of course he was going through what he was going through as well. His his illness. And I think during COVID he had, he was sort of on an in between where he was kind of healthy. And then at some point during COVID, he had to fight it again. But, you know, we would speak about issues in the industry, challenges in the industry, solutions to some of those challenges. But most of all, we would talk about humans. We would talk about people and how they were hurting and how we could help.

11:47 And as everyone knows, and I know as well as anyone does, Craig loved and cared deeply about humans. I mean, you know, to me, it's probably his greatest trait is that he was genuine and he really cared about people. He loved people and he showed it. You know, he, he gave the best hugs and, you know, he was always smiling. He was always nice and fun and happy to be around and always brought the room up. You know, never brought it down, always brought it up. And, you know, I wish I could live as as happy and and grateful and cheerful as Craig did. And so most recently, Craig called me on a Thursday, I think a Thursday or Friday, and it was the week of the Miami Grand Prix. And he says, Marcel, as luck would have it, I have an extra ticket.

12:40 In fact, I have two. And they have your name and your son, the racing driver, Jeremy's name on them. I'd love for you to come. And so of course, we took him up on it. He knew I was a fan and he knew my son was a driver and, and would probably, you know, do backflips to, to get into that race. And so not only did we get into the race, but I mean, Roby did it right. Like, you know, the, the suite that they had or the, the room that we were a part of was incredible. It's the first time I've ever watched a race in air conditioning. And other than being in the house watching it on television, of course, but it was incredible. The group who were there were really nice people. I appreciated it and I was very grateful to be a part of it.

13:23 But more so my son was super, super grateful. And after the weekend, Jeremy said to me, Dad, that guy Craig is one of the nicest guys I've ever met. He really was a great guy. And he was. And to be perfectly honest, Jeremy, when I told him on Friday that Craig had passed away, he was like, no, dad, no, that's just not fair. Like that guy is a great guy, but you know, as as Jeremy knows and I know and we all know, I'm not telling you any secrets here, but unfortunately the good guys go to And so. But yeah, while I was at that race with Craig, you know, I'm so happy I got to do that because I feel like we just closed a lot of loops.

14:12 We had a lot of conversations, deep conversations about life, about his health and about business, about Roby, about other companies in the industry. And we, we just got to spend some quiet time together, him and I like two or three hours of real deep conversation and I loved it. And I feel like he loved it too. We walked away from it better people, both of us. And so unfortunately, I had no idea that two weeks later he was going to be gone. Otherwise, you know, the hug that I gave him at the end, which was a really great Craig hug, but it would have been different. It would have lasted longer.

14:56 I probably would have squeezed a little harder and I might have stayed longer too. I don't know. I might have stayed and had dinner with them that night or something. But I'll miss him. I love that guy. He's an amazing guy. He was a good friend to me for 30 years and to so many of you and to so many others in the industry. So see on the other side, buddy. So with that said, let's lighten it up a little bit. So Roe, one of our great sponsors, was at the Cannes Film Film Festival last week and they showcased the power of virtual production in cooperation with Faber Stipe, whatever that is, and the Institute of Immersive Media, 77th Annual Cannes Film Festival.

15:43 So that was a pretty big event for Roe, and I'm sure it went over big. They just can't seem to help from winning right now. So Roe is on top of the world and deservedly so. I mean, they made the investment, they built the right products, they've done a lot of the right things. So good on them and we're super proud and happy to have them as a supporter and sponsor of pieces of gear. And of course, it would not be geese of gear in 2024 without an AI update. So a few things that I tripped over on my way to this podcast. George Lucas has stepped into the conversation about AI in in movies and film making and writing and stuff.

16:26 And you know that there have been even strikes over this where, you know, everybody is saying, you know, we want to be protected from AI. We want a piece of, you know, whatever, you know, I keep saying it like get on the bus or get under the bus. It's going to be one of the two. And so basically what Lucas said is that AI and film making is inevitable. Despite whatever resistance is against it, whatever headwinds it has, it's inevitable and it's coming. And so I was just thinking, does that ring a bell for any of us in this industry?

17:06 You know, I mean, this is George Lucas of Star Wars fame. He's, you know, one of the the big daddies out there. And he's saying it's inevitable and you got to get comfortable with it. And although he does still say that, he believes it's going to be a tool that's going to make people more creative. But there are going to be massive components of films that will be completely generated by AI. XAI, Elon Musk's company, AI company, which sits alongside Tesla and SpaceX and all of the other ones got a $6 billion investment, which raised his his cap, his valuation post money to $24 billion.

17:52 And of course, he and they have big plans ahead. I wouldn't bet against Elon Musk and Xai. One of the things I like about Elon being in this space is that he is very conscious about the bad side, the downside of AI. He's very careful. He wants regulation, He wants some limits. And so I'm pretty happy with the fact that he got a big investment and he got it from like all of the big names, Sequoia Capital and Andreessen Horowitz and, you know, all of the big Silicon Valley VC investors. So that tells me that they expect him to do really well. And I like that.

18:38 And by the way, as a side note, has anyone noticed that the B has replaced the M when it comes to talking financial numbers? Like there's nobody talks about millions anymore. It's billions. It's crazy how this has happened. Like I've been noticing this for the last year or so. We don't talk about millionaires anymore. We talk about billionaires. We don't talk about valuations in millions. We talk about it in billions. I remember not that long ago when people were blown away that Facebook got a valuation, or I think it was Instagram got a valuation of a billion dollars or got a billion dollar deal, or YouTube got a billion dollar valuation or whatever it was. I mean, imagine those evaluations today, like YouTube looks like a frickin bargain basement deal that Google got when they bought YouTube for a billion dollars. Like it's, I don't know what it's worth, but I would guess YouTube is worth $100 billion today. So that to me was probably a pretty safe bet. It's probably worth more than $100 billion. If you think of the platform that YouTube has now and the number of users they have and the amount of content that they have, it's unbelievable.

19:47 Netflix CEO says AI won't write better screenplays or surpass great performances. Instead, those who use AI effectively might pose a competitive edge. Again, does this ring a bell? I've talked about this a whole bunch of times on the podcast. I think lighting designers and lighting operators in front of house engineers and video directors and creative directors of all kinds. Will be better at their job because of AI, not replaced by AI. And those are the ones who embrace it, especially the ones who embrace it early. Get on it, folks. What else?

20:30 So I mentioned earlier that I'm using a different microphone. You can probably see it. You probably hear the difference. Let me know how it sounds. But I have shipped off my normal podcasting system, the mixer and the microphone and everything, even the red mic cord that you're so accustomed to seeing right here has shipped off to Canada. So my car left yesterday morning. So said son decided he really wanted to drive my car to Canada. I was just going to rent one in Canada. And he said Nah, I want to drive it up there. So he took my BMW and him and his buddy O2 B 20 again, you know, but him and his buddy left Florida yesterday morning and they're somewhere in Texas right now as I am recording this and having a great time. You know, they found some hotel in Alabama last night and next to a skate park.

21:26 And so they brought their skateboards and scooters and stuff and they they went and hit the skate park before getting back on the road again. So yeah, they're having a great old time. But anyways, my podcast system went with them up to Canada, along with my pizza oven. My uni pizza oven is on its way to Canada. So pizza parties for all who are in Canada, come on over. And what else? If you want to be a guest on this podcast, please, we want you again, the bar to become a guest isn't incredibly high, it's high. We want you to be interesting. Are you interesting? Are you funny? Do you have some great stories? Do you like to talk? Do you like to share those stories? We'd love to have you as a guest on the podcast. So contact Sarah, our producer, and it's an easy e-mail address, producer@geezersofgear.com.

22:16 And she will do a little screening to make sure that you meet that massive criteria that we require and she'll get you scheduled. So it's as easy as that and we'd love to have you. And remember if you're listening to this, like and subscribe wherever you're watching or listening to it, that helps me and helps us tremendously. It helps grow the podcast. And as I've said before, as we grow the podcast, it becomes better for listeners, it becomes better for guests, and it becomes better, of course, for our sponsors as well. So we appreciate you. Please like and subscribe, comment even if you hate it. I don't mind those comments. I've had my butt ripped out by some of these people commenting about myself driving car comments. It's OK.

22:59 I don't profess to know everything. I just like to talk a lot. So thank you again for liking and subscribing to our podcast. And so today's guest is going to be a popular one. This will be probably listened to a lot. Right up there with some of the most recent really great ones. But Mike Finn Finocchiaro, and I'm sure I butchered that. Finn is a 25 year veteran of the live event industry. With roots as a touring lighting technician and a successful career in event production, Mike has grown to be one of the most well respected production managers working today. Over two decades spent touring the world, Mike honed his skills as a master of organization while overcoming some of the most technically challenging production designs, venues, and event logistics.

23:49 In the process, Mike developed a heightened sense of efficiency, reliability, and diplomacy as his production experience grew throughout the years. Now operating with a broadened scope, Mike leads a production team with the same ideals. Big Fin Productions is the byproduct of over 25 years of workflow development, bringing countless productions to life. As a production partner, Big Fin Productions delivers top level shows on time and on budget. With a deep pool of resources and a passion for streamline production, Big Fin Productions has become a go to for successful production management. Please welcome Mike Finn.

24:37 What is it? It's Tuesday. I these Monday holiday things messed me up. Screw you up, right? They messed me up man. It feels like Monday. It does and well, it feels like super Monday because I came in today with exponentially 2 days worth of work, right? It just seems like more than if it was a regular Monday Tuesday with all the Monday stuff piled on top of it. But we're. Going to do you still travel or or? I do. I try to stick in Vegas as much as I can. I'm back and forth between Vegas and LA. We're looking to open up a venue in LA. That's one of our next projects here, one of the next phases of my life. But I do try to stick close to home and, you know, just take short trips, go in, get job started, things like that and then, you know, and then get back to it because, you know, we got a lot going on here. Vegas is our base operations for, you know, the whole US. So every time I leave, I come back to a pile of work. Like we were saying earlier, I like to be around and stay on top of it.

25:33 Yeah, when you talk about a a venue in LA, So what's what's that all about? You know, after all these years of doing what I'm doing, I kind of and working in venues all over the planet, I want my own space. You know, we're thinking like maybe like old school, bring some of that old school back, like cabaret dinner style, like with the big booths, like picture Elvis in Vegas back in the 70s with, with some good acts, you know, to just really bring some like quality entertainment and just have a good time. Like just kind of spend some of my years living out my vision and just having it, having it my way. That's. Kind of good for you man, Good for you. Sounds fun and So what kind of music are you envisioning?

26:15 Or just all kinds? Whatever. I mean, I always, you know, we're, we're definitely going in the, you know, in a glam Hollywood kind of style. My girlfriend and I are looking at doing something that's like an adult Hollywood, maybe do some burlesque, some comedy, that kind of stuff, you know, just something up. Yeah. Something fun, something that we, we enjoy putting on. And, you know, nothing too big, nothing too crazy. I don't wanna have my life revolve around it. I wanna be part of it and I wanna enjoy it. I wanted to be something that I could go enjoy outside of the business that I'm in right now, you know, I mean, so. Have you already got the space? Like how far are you? Or is it still just an idea? New into it. We just started looking at spaces online. We've talked to a few Realtors.

26:58 We're just really getting it going. Like six months I think is where we're really talking about like being able to jump into this thing. Very cool. Good luck with that man. Yeah. Thanks. I I'll have to check it out when I'm in LA. I'm, I'm on the board for a company that's in LA. So I'm getting there a lot more now. I hadn't gone and I don't know, four years or something since before COVID, but now I'm there every quarter for. Boarding out there I love guess what I'm in Vegas, but I love the ocean. I love being out there. I love the weather. I just that just a different set of I don't know a different set of weather every day. That's what I like. I like to be able to be like feel that feel the ocean around me, that kind of stuff. You know, the desert is it's got its own thing, it's it's own benefits and it's pluses and everything, but I definitely dig the ocean too. So I.

27:42 Things don't really change a lot with the weather in Vegas, no. No, it's the same. And then it gets hot and that's it, you know, And it's nice. I enjoy it. I'm a car guy, a motorcycle guy, so I definitely dig the weather and that capacity. But I like the ocean. I think it's very calming and I think in my later years that's that's where I want to be hanging. Out. Yeah, I'm with you. I love the ocean. You're down there in Florida, you get it. That's that's important. You know, and everyone always says, and I don't necessarily agree, but I kind of do. I guess if you took it away from me, I'd probably agree. But I have a house in the mountains in Canada, in the Rockies and, and I live in South Florida and everyone says, oh, my God, you have the best of both worlds. And sorta, yeah. I mean, and, and I'm kind of for the first time ever, the past couple of years, I've been taking advantage of it.

28:26 Like I go, I'm leaving next week and I'll be there until, I don't know, October or something. And and then I come back here when it's getting freezing cold up in Western Canada and come back to South Florida. It's probably getting hot right now, right where you're at. I mean, yeah, it's somewhere. It's probably starting to get that sticky right. Yeah, I'm in, I'm in Palm Beach. But it's been unseasonably hot. Like it got into the high 90s a couple weeks ago in in early May and that typically doesn't happen. But yeah, it's it's unseasonably hot right now, so. So you're going to bail? It's, I get it, smart, unless it's good to have options, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean, the only downside in Western Canada recently has been, you know, the fires.

29:10 So like last year was good. The year before that was there was just so much smoke and, and most houses up there, mine included, don't have air conditioning. So you leave windows and doors open and when, when it's brutal smoke, you want to close your windows and stuff so you don't have that stuff blowing in, but it's just so hot then inside and there's no air moving. And so, yeah, it, it can get crappy because of the smoke. But other than that, I mean, like, it'll be cool one day down into the, you know, high 30s, low 40s at night. And then the next day it'll go up to, you know, 82 or 83 or whatever. Well, hopefully the Fires keep to a minimum, right? I mean, that's, yeah, that's the win, win right there for you.

29:51 Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's been a shitty season so far, but who knows? Like, they need a bunch of rain, and that'll calm the fires down. Hopefully. Yeah, Hopefully. So. Over 25 years in the industry. What's that? How? How long? 30 now that you you pulled up an old website that was that was Big Fin Productions. We made that. Yeah, you can. I looked at the picture. I'm like, man, I don't look like that anymore. That was, that was a couple years ago for sure. Yeah. 2015 when we launched Big Fin, Big Fin Productions. Yeah, we, we were Mike Finn Productions for from 2006 on. 2015 we decided to make it more of an entity and instead of just me, Mike Finn expected me to be on every job.

30:33 Once we became Big Finn, it really opened up a lot of opportunity for us to have a, a people in place and staff in place instead of just myself. So we did that. 2015, the newest incarnation that works hand in hand with Big Finn Productions and all the other Big Finn SLC. Some of the other companies that we have is a big fit international and that's the newest website there. That's where I actually look the way that I do now. A little heavier snack, a little beard, but we're we're about, I started in 93. So we're about, you know, 3030 plus years in at this point. Wow. Yeah, it's been a long. Run it's and. It goes fast. Yeah, well, trust me, I know. I get it. I'm, I'm, I've got a big birthday in a couple of weeks, so I'm not super excited about that one.

31:17 But you know, the, the flip side of of having a big birthday is not having a big birthday. So I guess I'll take it. It's the best years of our life man. I'll say that. I had a lot of fun in the past, but right now I am truly living my best life. Good for you. Well, it's where I want to be. I don't regret one second of of where I've been. It's been a hell of a ride. And you know, I'm ready for all the next chapters. And that's where the venue comes in. We're doing a lot of charity work. I mean, everything that I have an opportunity to do now that I definitely wouldn't have been able to do 10 years ago or even ago, so. Well, yeah, I mean, having some success and knowledge and experience and stuff puts you in a position where you get to use those things for. You do what you want to do instead of what you have to do, right?

31:59 That's the goal. That's. The goal? Doing what you want to do and and change the world in a way that that you see benefiting all instead of yeah. Yeah, my girlfriend asked me all the time, you know, would you retire? And I'm like, I don't think so, you know, like I might change what I do at some point if somebody comes along and pays me a stupid amount of money for my company, you know, I may go, OK, yeah, like let's do that. Cause I've been doing the same thing for 20 years ish. I mean, I do a lot of other stuff, but you know, I've had, I've had my company for, for a little over 20 years and I love what I do. I love the company and everything, but I love different things. I love adventures. You know what? Is retirement though, right?

32:41 Is retirement, you know, people picture it sitting on a on a dock fishing or something. But to me, retirement is just doing what you want to do, strictly doing what you want to do, and that with the. People you want to do it with. Yeah, that's it. You know, having A and. What do you do every day? You do what you want to do with the people you want to do it with. So why? Retire. To me, it's not sitting back and wasting away. It's, it's really accelerating your life and doing, you know, enjoying the fruits of what you put your time into for the past, however many years and, and being able to do what truly feels good to you and, and to help shape the world the way that you see that should be shaped. Yeah, I mean, it's like, I like, I love the water, I love boats, but I couldn't sit on the beach every day.

33:24 There's just no way. I'd go crazy. I'd lose my mind. I get through like a couple days, right? You get there, you're like, OK, this is good. You start to calm down after the second day. Third and 4th day you're OK. By the 5th or 6th day you're like, OK, I need to go do something right? Yeah. Not to it. No, I'm that way too. I mean, we're not. Long term. Yeah. Well, and the other thing is, like most people I know who go through, call it a normal retirement, end up dying two years later or whatever, You know, it's like when you don't have that passion every day and the thing that drives you every day, it seems like, you know, something happens. Like, yeah, to your biology, you know, you. Start rusting, right?

34:06 I mean really, it's funny. So I, I'm in these old cars and I just, we, we pulled apart a 64. I have a lot, I have a lot of Cadillacs. I mean, that's, that's been my thing. I'm big fan. Obviously that's what we're all about. But I have a 64 Fleetwood and, and it's having some problems and it's the carbon. Why? Because it's been sitting OK. It's just been sitting with gunk and old gas. That's retirement. You know, I don't want to be that Fleetwood. I want to be somebody that stays sharp, stays on the move. I always say big fan also like a shark. Got to keep moving all the time, right? Got to keep moving or you die. You just got to keep swimming and and finding new things to go after and that keeps. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny. I was talking with my my girlfriend just like probably last week about this.

34:48 I said, you know, humans, we're just like boats. Like every time I've had boats, when they sat in the Marina for three or four months and I didn't touch them when you'd get on it, there was always things broken. And I said, you know, it's the same thing when you get into your 50s as a human, you know, if you're not exercising, like you'll wake up one morning with sore knees, you'll wake up the next morning with sore ankles, you'll wake up the next morning with something else wrong. You know you need to keep working this stuff for else you run into Pro. And I just, I just, I turned, yeah, I'm going to be 52 this year. But last year it was like after I turned 50, it was like the check engine light went on, right? I realized that there was like health problems and I didn't even know about diet, things like that, all these things that were kind of hanging with me last year. And I wasn't, I didn't feel like I was firing on all cylinders. You know, I just, and I attributed to getting old. Once of the doctors got checked out, they said, you know, your blood Sugar's high.

35:40 You got to do this change your change your diet a little bit. I did change my diet, started hitting the gym a couple times a week and the energy level came back stronger than it's ever been before. And I feel like that is part of it is don't let yourself waste away like keep yourself, keep yourself active, especially in your later years. I think it's all. Yeah, well, and you know what? Like nobody likes to talk about this, but have you ever tried testosterone? No. Is that a good thing? It's amazing. It is friggin amazing. I stopped taking it because I have to really focus on my heart and one of my doctors says it's bad for my heart. Another doctor says it's really good for my heart. So, you know, I'll, I'll err on caution on this one just because you know, my dad died of a heart attack at you. Don't want to screw around with your heart? Not at all.

36:23 Yeah. I pay a lot of attention to that situation and but it's amazing. I mean, it makes you crave exercise, it makes you crave good food and your attention. And just like, you know, those two 3:00 desires to lay down and nap or whatever, that goes away. Like, I mean, it's a real thing. Like your testosterone level, if you're a normal male in their early 50s is probably down to like 300 now or something. And it should be anywhere from 7 to 1100 and and so it honestly like it is amazing. They told me even the.

37:04 Diet and exercise. So that's what I've been hitting pretty hard is. Like diet and exercise is amazing. Yeah, but. Yeah, it's definitely. Worth asking about. Yeah, I mean, taking testosterone, that the diet and exercise just has a whole nother level of impact. It just works so much better and it's sort of a dirty secret that nobody wants to tie. Have you ever taken testosterone? You know, it's like this weird thing where nobody wants to talk about it because I guess it makes you less of a male or something. I don't know. But to me it is incredible. Now there's some weird stuff there. It's funny because I had this conversation on my podcast with Dearson a couple of months ago and we had a similar experience.

37:46 But I, I will never forget the first time because the doctor was like, do you want to come into our office and have the testosterone administered because it's a needle in your ass? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I can do that myself, don't worry. And he goes, well, you know, it's a little tough the first couple of times. But medical needles? Not my thing. No, it's it's not easy. And I will tell you it doesn't sound near as hard as it really is to put a needle in your ass. And it's a big needle too, and it has to hit sort of on the right angle. And so I literally was bleeding all over my bathroom. I kept poking my ass and I bleed and 'cause I couldn't get the needle in properly, 'cause you really do have to jam it in. And I'll tell you, the first time was unbelievable. Like it looked like I murdered a family in my bathroom. And.

38:39 Not qualified to do that what whatsoever. I think that's one of the reasons why I stuck so hard to like adhere to what the doctor said with getting my health together is I don't want to go on insulin, right? They say that's something like that. You know, if you don't get your blood sugar under control, you can be one of those guys that has to have insulin every day. I can't imagine sticking myself with a needle every day. So at this point moment though. Because that's that's a tiny little needle in your stomach and you barely feel it. That's. Terrible. No. But you. Barely feel it. Seriously, because when I was doing testosterone, they also made me do this other HGH or whatever it was, but. And so you had to do a little needle in your stomach too. That one didn't bother me at all. Like you could barely feel it. And I'm not a needle guy, trust me.

39:19 Thank God, because I played in bands and toured and all that stuff and I didn't like needles, so there was none of that going on in my life. Yeah, that. May be a beneficial thing over the years, right? Zero desire to do that. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, the needle in my stomach didn't bother me at all. The one in your ass is holy. Christ, is that hard to do? It just isn't easy. Yeah, even when you get used to it, it's not easy because it's like, oh, I know this is going to hurt ow because you got to go into the muscle. It goes straight into the muscle, right? Yeah, that doesn't sound. Fun. Not at all. I think I'm I'm trying to stick to like I don't want to be on any medication at all. That's. I'm with you, I'm the same way. Somehow managed to like just stay away from all of it.

40:00 That's that's where I want to be. So that's that's what I've been. Doing right idea. Yeah, work hard to do it, man. That's all. You tell me. I got to drop a little bit of weight and hopefully everything at that point starts, you know, coming back clear again. Yeah, Yeah, I completely agree with you. I had that conversation with Robert Roth last week because Robert turned me on to, and you might even check this out. There's a book called Younger next Year and Robert turned me on to that a little too early. I think I was probably in my late 40s when he told me about that book. And but it's amazing and it really is just, it's about diet and exercise. It's about changing your lifestyle a little bit. Sleep is the other big. One, I mean, they've been telling us that for as long as I can remember.

40:41 I don't know how I lost, lost sight of it. You know, I guess you get busy and you just, you're working so hard, you're building your empire and you're eating what you can when you can. You're not getting the right rest. You're stress, they say, is a huge factor in all that. And stress, sleep or makeup. Is another big one, you know, who knew, you know, like, I mean, The thing is I think it almost sounds too simple. Diet and exercise, it sounds too simple. So everybody's looking for this magical, you know, drug or solution or whatever. And you know, I'm glad that a lot of the bad information now is starting to come out on Ozempic cuz I was worried. I have so many friends who have been taking that and I'm just like, it seems fishy to me. Yeah, I know anything that works. That well and I, I kiboshed it after a little bit.

41:23 I was like, I don't like this shit, man. Like again, back to the medication. They were like, you gotta get your diet under control, that kind of thing. And I feel like, again, I don't feel like I was overeating. I feel like I was eating at the inappropriate, the wrong thing at the wrong times. You know, you're cutting off a job at 2:00 in the morning. What do you drive? You're driving through somewhere, right? Because there's no food in the fridge and you got to eat something because you haven't eaten in 10 hours. So you're eating a burger? Carbs. Carbs and sugar are the easiest things, right? Not the most pleasing. But you know what though? You're Italian. Like I mean the the real Italian from Italy diet is so good, like the whole Mediterranean thing, fresh ingredients, fresh ingredients, very few ingredients.

42:03 It's what I love about Italian food, but it's also what's so good about it for. You delicious. It's fresh and delicious. It's delicious and fresh. Again, the food that we get in America, here, it's, it's a sad state of affairs. It's processed, it's treated, it's all those parables. I feel like the old guy get off my lawn saying these kind of things, but I I, I'm watching it change and you know, and that you just see it more and more and more that this is. Worse and worse too. Like it, it just as we keep pushing for lower prices, you know, it, it just keeps getting worse, you know, because all they can do is is process it more to sort of stretch it out more and make more profit and whatever it is. So funny story when I first because I really got into exactly what you're talking about.

42:45 So a Whole Foods diet, real food and, and the best food you could get. So it was only grass fed beef because I didn't use to eat beef because I thought it was going to give me a heart attack. But the truth is you can eat beef. It's actually pretty good for you. And there's there's, there are nutrients that you can only get from beef too. And, and you know, Chris Lowe's will come on and, and shame me for saying that, but sorry Chris. But there are, he knows that there are certain proteins that you really can only get in the right amounts from beef. And, but you know, so if you get grass fed beef and pasture raised eggs and all of those types of things, it's actually pretty good for you. And so I went seeking that out.

43:27 So anyways, I could get to my house in Canada and I go into the grocery store up there and I call the butcher over and he's a little Indian guy. And I said I'm looking for grass fed beef but I can't find it anywhere here. And he just kind of sits there like this and he's kind of looking around and he doesn't know what to say. And I'm like, oh wait, all beef in Canada is grass fed. Yes. Yes, it is. Yes it is. Well, in Alberta anyways. Like Alberta is where all the cattle are, right? So it's like in Texas, in Texas, most decent places are going to have grass fed beef because it's pretty, it's pretty accessible.

44:09 So yeah, I mean, it's more expensive and it's a little harder to eat, right? But it's not as hard as people think. Like, you know, it's probably. Worth it? Look at look at what you might spend on medical conditions right from having them. All hell yeah. Input in your body by taking the easy way you know. And again, I'm out. There doing it because it's hard. It is. You really got to put your mind to it, You got to focus on it, you got to be dedicated to it. But I do think there's a lot of benefits to it. Well, back to that Ozempic thing. So I've, I don't know if you've seen it, but I've seen a lot of reports recently that Ozempic, most of the weight you're losing is coming from bone loss and muscle loss.

44:50 So you're basically becoming fat but light. So you're losing weight but retaining fat. And I'm sure there's doctors out there that would argue that, but there, there are some, there are some really, really smart doctors who did a lot of testing to patients that went on Ozempic. And the end result was that there's bone loss and muscle loss for most patients. Some patients experience a lot more fat loss, but a lot of times you're losing weight but you're getting less healthy. It's the magic pill, right? It's never going to work. It's like magic beans, right? You're not going to grow that bean, you know that magical bean stalk like stick to the basics, eat, put the right thing in your body, exercise, right?

45:34 You're going to be OK. You know, I know it's easier said than done, but I think it's very. No, it's true. It's. True. Well, and again, I, I go back to the Italian or Mediterranean thing, you know, Greek food, Italian food is very simple, very few ingredients. Like, I'm French, I don't really like French food because it's too rich and it's too complicated and there's too many things in it. And, you know, I like it. It tastes good, but I know that it's bad for me as I'm eating it. Whereas when you're eating a nice Italian meal and I'm not talking, you know, like chicken Parmesan or something, I'm talking proper. Italian home. Like homecooked, Yeah. Like something? Yeah, out of Grandma's kitchen. Yeah, that shit's good for you. You know it's good for you.

46:15 And a nice glass of wine and you're good. You're gonna live. Last a long time too, right? They're all very peaceful lives and live, live to the ripe old age and all that kind of stuff. Well, another cool thing that I've spent time looking at is this thing called Blue Zones. And I don't know if you've ever looked into any of that stuff, but it's it's basically these areas where an ungodly number of people live into their hundreds and. I watched something on Netflix. I want to say it was like the 88 areas where that was, that was the. Fact. They're called Blue Zones, Yeah. And, and generally they're these little villages or whatever where one guy raises goats, one guy raises something else, another guy grows, you know, whatever.

46:55 And they just kind of, they exchange this stuff around the village and you provide the, the fresh goat meat and you provide the whatever. And, and yeah, I mean, half of them live to over 100 years old. You know, it's, it's crazy because. Right. Right. I mean, that's, that goes back to that that guy that shows up and sees a little old fisherman having, you know, he's on vacation and he goes and sees this fisherman and says, hey, you know, you're out here, you're fishing every day. Why don't you get a fleet of boats and make all this money and then you can relax. He's like, I'm doing that right now. You know, I go out right now and relax and that's it. I have what I need. So why push it? You know, like a lot of those people have the right lifestyle. No, you're totally right. Like be careful what you wish for, right? Yeah, right.

47:36 So how did you get started in? You said 93. In 93. 30 years ago. Yeah, we'll, we'll tell the story. So I was a troubled kid, right? Gotten a lot of gotten a lot of havoc back there in Philadelphia back in the day. And I that's. Where you that's where you grew up? Philly, Yeah. I grew up in Philly, found myself living in a halfway house on our work release right they and part of that gig is you had to have a job. So they sent us out to build a stage for University of Pennsylvania Spring Fling. So first day I show up and I think it was CSS concert staging system. Mike Serena back in the day, he was building a structure.

48:19 So they put me on that crew. This is my first day. I'm going from being a delinquent in Philadelphia to all of a sudden I'm on this crew and a chain came down as we built the structure, chain came down from the tower, you know, a little 12 by 12 tower trust. And I said I'll fix that. I shimmied up there and put the chain in a bag and I came down and Mike Z said, you're a lighting guy. He said you're you're an absolute natural. When when you get out of trouble, call me. I'm going to help you. You know, I'll help you get you a job. So I went up working a lot that, you know, instead of sitting in this halfway house with a bunch of maniacs. I worked, I think I did like 16 hour day, 22 hour day, 16 hour day was there, you know, around the clock and but it was great to me.

49:00 And then I saw George Clinton and P Funk like took the stage. I remember looking out into the audience and thinking, this is transcending everything right now. You know, black, white, like fat, skinny, old, young. Everybody was dancing, everybody was just in this groove. And I went. This is awesome. And I was like. And I realized this is a business. I can get paid to do this. So you know, I finished out what I had to do. I got a job with, I think I worked for Main Light 1st and then I bounced over to Light action, back to Main Light. And the whole time I wanted to know who does all the big tours. And everybody's always said LSD, light and sound design. So eventually a buddy of mine, Tom Thompson, hooked me up with Barry Claxton. Next thing you know, I was out on the road. And you know, that was the rest of his history. Man, it's been wow since.

49:45 Then yeah. How long did you tour with LSDI? Was with them in the 90s, I want to say, I want to say from the early 90s to like, I feel like my last touring dates were around 2003, something like that. Maybe a little later, but I worked my way up from lighting, you know from just trust monkey dimmer tech loved loved the cable love throwing cable loved feeder love climbing. I mean, you know, just knucklehead from Philly. Like I love the physical activity of it on and just being it, you know, working like that and getting paid. I couldn't believe I was getting paid to do what I was doing. And I just kept working my way up to eventually I was stage manager for Scorpions and just did a bunch of tours of them and kept going. So I feel like into the two early 2000s, I started doing more stage management, you know, crew chief, that kind of stuff. And then I want to say.

50:39 So you worked for PRG? No, I started, that's why I started drifting on that. So maybe when the sale came and PRG came in, I feel like that's when I started. I'll be straight, that's when things started changing for me. I felt like that light, that LSD way in that community started getting lost in the bigger picture of PRG and that wasn't something I was into. And maybe that's when I started stepping up the ladder a little bit to to start doing my own thing. And that's when I remember being on a bus when it was early 2000s, 2004, maybe something like that, and looking at some people, looking at Cooper, who was a legend. And I learned a lot from him. But I also realized I wanted more for my life.

51:20 I didn't want to be out there touring, you know, when I was in my 50s and 60s and things like that. And I, I decided I needed to do something else. So we started H Finn Productions and one of the first gigs that we got was with Ford for the auto shows and I want to say it was DC, Chicago and maybe New York, something like that, and pulled together a bunch of my roadie buddies and we prepped it like a rock tour. So we rolled in there, streamlined as hell, put it up really fast, saved, saved money on labor and that was noticed. And they said, you know what, you got to like kind of a niche thing here, you should try this. So then we started pitching Rock'n'roll efficiency with a suit and tie presentation, right?

52:03 That was our thing for doing corporates, and we just started getting a bunch of the early 2000s. A lot of corporate money was out there and we started doing a lot of general sessions and things like that. We really blew up till 2008 when I think the economy took a little bit of a turn. It blew up, yeah. Yeah, and then we shifted gears back to doing festivals. I, I got pulled in the first year of Electric Zoo on Randall's Island was me and, you know, just a, a handful, like five other guys, producers, my buddy John Goldstein, designer, Aaron Leventhal, producer and a couple of couple promoters. And we came, they came up with this concept and I was like, fuck yeah, we'll build this. And, you know, really just laid out the whole festival ground, did all the power, laid out the rigging, did all that. And that kept me busy for the next five years. We did, you know, I mean we did other things, but that, that was big.

52:50 I mean, from the time we started where I think we sold 30,000 tickets to 150,000, you know, in the last year we were involved. That's gross. A lot. And yeah, and then Apple, then I got a call from my buddies, my buddies over at Light Switch and they, they didn't know who I was, but they said we're doing a big job. Or am I supposed to say we're doing a big job from one of the tech companies out there and we need somebody that can speak construction. That's literally, that's literally what they said. They had to deal with the unions and things like that. I was like, I can do that. And we rolled out there and we did that and it was a success. And I just kind of found my niche there. So I got back into the corporates for a lot of years and there you go, man. That's the trajectory that one right up to doing what we were producing.

53:31 I started production managing and producing a lot of large scale shows of my own and I was always bringing in. Back then it was Mike Finn Productions and then we started Big Finn in 2015 to just kind of get my name out of there and just create an entity like I was saying. That was a lot of the Emmys, production riggers, video engineers, some of the real high level positions. That's what we did and and we were very successful. I loved being at the top of that pyramid because I made sure everybody was communicating. They were all on our team. It wasn't a bunch of vendors that came together. It was literally the big fin team that was producing this stuff and it was it was seamless. The communication was good. You know, we're all moving in the same direction. And it seemed that our X Factor wherever we were in the country was local labor.

54:17 You know, what are you going to get? You never know and best laid plans, you know, if you have 100 guys and aren't willing to help you with that, that, you know, makes it very challenging on site. So I want to say 2017, we decided to start a labor company to support our own shows and, and and that just took off. People said, hey, and they're like these these guys are great guys, can we hire them? We said hell yeah. And we just started doing that. And then that really grew legs itself. You know, at the beginning, beginning of this year, we had 1800 people on payroll, lots of people throughout the country, offices all over the place. And yeah, we've been boom and we do all the work over to legions. We got a show coming up there next week.

54:59 That's kind of our home, home base, our offices in Vegas, but we have satellite offices all over the country, you know, and there you go. That's the business side of it. And all that helps fund our philanthropical, whatever that word is. We we go out there and we try to help people. That's. That's that's the fun part to me. Backing up a bit though, when did you locate to Vegas? Was that just sort of at the end of the touring thing? Yeah, 2017 and I'll say the words. I came through town and we did. It was a big corporate show over at T-Mobile. And I remember thinking, this is the worst crew that I've ever worked with in my entire life. I said they're not just. And I always say I was like, you know, I have to put up with stupid, but I don't have to put up with dangerous, OK. And that was in full effect that day that I was like, somebody is going to get hurt.

55:46 These guys don't know what they're doing. This is a very dangerous environment for everybody that's involved. And I was like, we can do better than this. So that's why we picked Las Vegas to kind of kick. Off, I think because it needed you. It needed you more than you needed it. Yeah, There was just a lot of work there that needed to be done. Yeah, absolutely. So how hard was COVID for you then if you had that many people on payroll and stuff, I mean. Well, we're about 1800 now. Back then we had less, you know, probably a couple 100, whatever it was. You know, we did 17. Our company, we grew 600 percent or something the first two years were open. It was insane. I always tell people I felt like I was strapped to a rocket like it was non-stop. I was in the office. That's.

56:27 A lot of people. 12:00 AM Yeah, everyday I was in there. Everyday I was, I was non-stop, full force. And back then we were small. It was me, my old partner and his wife. And really we were just, we were managing everything. There was a lot, we put a lot into it. We did really well. You know, things were blowing up and then then COVID hit and that was like hitting a brick wall attached to a rocket. Like I didn't know what to do with myself. I found myself just kind of, you know, at first I was like, oh, it's going to pass. So I remember taking a little break, you know, and then about two weeks in, I was like, this is not going to pass. So I, I started getting a little stir crazy because that's the way my brain works. So I just started going to the office and sitting in this empty building by myself everyday just OK, I'm just going to work.

57:11 This is what I'm going to do and I'm going to figure something out so well. Like me too. It was like I can fix this. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, something's going to happen. I was like, what can we do? So we started up PPE experts, personal protection experts, where we started a COVID testing company, COVID masks, COVID out. You know, we did everything that we could and we were blessed to tie in with a show called Bar Rescue here in Vegas. And also we did some stuff with what was the other one Dog Whisperer, simple little shows, but it we were doing a couple 100 tests a week on their on their staff, on anybody that appeared on the show, all that kind of stuff. And we were not making money, but it also gave me something to do.

57:54 I felt like I was making steps to kind of reopen the industry and at the same time, we were able to keep our doors open, pay our bills. I had two people full time on payroll that like, unfortunately, I had two people that started in the office. I'm going to say two weeks before COVID hit, right? They had left their old jobs. They're they're jumping on board and that happened. And I was like, I'm not going to let them go. Like I'm not going to let them just go flounder out there. I'm keeping them on no matter what. So we started this and they helped me with that and we wrote it out, man. We made it to the other side, you know? And then the first show back from COVID for us was Day in Vegas at the festival grounds over here. It was insane.

58:34 I went from needing nobody to needing 350 people, right? It was like. OK, start making phone calls. Nobody's around. People don't want to mess with their unemployment. They moved on into desk jobs like all the things. So that was a tough one coming out of COVID and. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Trying to wrangle people get get bodies and. Watch them probably probably double hard for you because then people are calling you looking for people, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You got a labor company too, right? Oh, absolutely. And there was other things we did now that you're making remember we started installing security. This guy invented this thing called Baywatch. It was a security camera that went up on a pole in the in the in the bays of auto dealerships to like it.

59:17 It videoed them working on the car and it did something to lower the insurance. But we started getting calls for that all over the country. So I'm sending these like super high qualified roadies, right People that it could run, run massive shows, run massive stadium shows and they're out there putting in security counters. Cameras in the ceiling. It was something, man. It was something. So, yeah, we did that. We got through that first big show. And then we just, you know, I realized that a lot of our workforce was gone and if we were going to succeed, that we needed to rebuild. So that's where I, I said, you know what, at this point, instead of looking for the people that know how to do this, why don't we make people that know how to do this kind of create the big fin army. So we put a lot of time and effort into just teaching, teaching, teaching the next generation on how to do this and teaching them the old ways with the new technology, the old theories, the old work ethic, the old things that made us all so successful. But marrying that into everything that's available in today's world to make shows and production flow a little bit smoother and streamline.

1:00:17 So you do that in directly in Vegas or is that something that's done remote or right? Now we're moving it, moving it around. We have, we go to Salt Lake a lot. That's one of our other like that's was the first satellite office that we that we created. So we we salt. Lake. There was a niche there, right? So there's a lot of people don't know. There was a lot of work. There's a lot of corporate shows that go in and out of there. A lot of businesses are based in Salt Lake City. A lot of big. Interesting. Things like that. And there was no labor force there. I mean, that's it. We were getting calls. Can you bring in 250 guys from Vegas to come do shows for us? That's the kind of thing that was happening and we were doing it and it came to a .2019 where one of our vendors out there said you guys should just open an office here, you know, So we did that and that is that's just ticking along. We do this stuff over at the Salt Palace. There's a whatever the arena is there now. You know, it used to be called the Target Center. I don't even know what it's now.

1:01:13 Something bank something or other, but. It was vivid for a minute, but we're in there. It's, you know, it's a place. It's a place that was not saturated. They really need quality labor. So we started bringing it in there and now, you know, that's one of our spots. But so big plan is to move these classes around the country. You know, right now we're really trying to streamline the big Fen U idea and, and be able to take that and move it, you know, anywhere and really just get these get people trained wherever we are so. So the general idea though is, is what? Like is it a two week training, a month, a six months? What is it? Usually we try to go through in two weeks. I think that's a fair, a fair number. You know what? And we'll have a class in rigging, class in Lighting, audio, video, carpentry. Don't don't be a douche bag.

1:02:01 One O 1. And that's literally what the ethics and the safety is like. Seriously, it's it's teaching them like, listen, this is how things operate. Like you need to learn how to, you know, the etiquette of being in this business. A lot of people don't and and they need to learn that. It's very important. I think if you have a good work ethic and you have proper etiquette and you're not an asshole, right? You're going to succeed. It carries you pretty far. Yeah, it really does. You know, I those are the people that I want to teach. So we really look out for for that quality in people and. And do graduates get hired or how does that work? What's that? Do graduates just automatically get a gig or? If they do, and once they go through everything, we are happy to put them to work. Like if you made it through, we see who's going to make it right.

1:02:45 I mean, that's it honestly. You see the people that are just there because they think it's going to be cool and you see the people that are willing to really step up. I'll never forget we had a class here in this in this shop here and something spilled. I saw this kid jump up, come over and clean it up. I went, what's your name? OK. I was like, that's, that's the kind of kid that I want to train right there that. Yeah, that's not true. Twice, you know, and that's really, it gives me an opportunity to really see people and what they're made of and you know, and I hate to say the words, but it's true whether they're worth investing the time into because. Yeah, you know this one thing Everyone is. Time to waste at this point. You're right, you're right. Well, and the other thing is, you know, when when your top guys or girls are on a show and they got to carry the weight of these rookies, you know, you want them, you need them to be worth it.

1:03:33 I mean, it can really become problematic, you know, if, if, if they're leading around a bunch of dummies, you know, or people who don't care. 0 tolerance. And that's why I like to be in the position that I'm in because I see that, you know, after all these years, I can look at somebody in one second and say they're going to be a problem. You can tell when someone's having a bad day and you can also tell when it is just in their nature to that they are in the wrong place and they shouldn't be here. So why waste one minute, cut them loose. I tell them, listen, there's a lot of places you're going to succeed in this world. This is not one of them. You know, respectfully, you know, here I'm cutting you loose. Go do what you do. You know, I support whatever growth you're going to do, but this is not the spot for it. And and I do that, you know, people might say nowadays that's harsh.

1:04:17 It's not it's actually helpful. Instead of them wasting their time and wasting everybody's time, I'm trying to point them in the right direction. You know, I, I, they've been around for a month. I've been doing this for 30 years. I can see whether you're going to make it or not, you know, or whether you have what it takes, you know, and yeah. And that's not to say you're a failure. It just means you're, you're not a good fit for where you're at right now. There is a place that's a proper fit for you. And I think it's it's a positive thing for them to go find that and succeed. Yeah, I mean, well, and even if you have a lighting degree or something, like it doesn't mean you're going to be on a rock'n'roll tour. It doesn't mean like there might be a place for you, but it might be by yourself, you know, in a theater or something like it might not be, you know, like there's a whole bunch of different things. You can take that knowledge and and go do with it, but there might be a different skill set required for some of these other.

1:05:10 Yeah, don't be discouraged. It's you're learning and life is about learning. You learn where or you're going to succeed and and go there. Follow your gut. You know, a lot of times people just want to stick in a place that they they should not be in. And I feel like that doesn't just go in our business, it goes in life. But it's, it's something I talk so much to like sort of the old school crowd in our industry. And like Cosmo, for example, you know, Cosmo, one of the things we talk a lot about is, is just how attitude and a willingness to say yes to a lot, a lot of stuff can create a career. And you know, Cosmo always said yes, like, and then figured it out, right?

1:05:51 Yeah. Do you know how to? Right. That's you're like, hell yeah, we could do that. That's it. Yeah, yeah. How do I do this? Yeah, yeah. And then? You call people, hey, listen, this is what I'm getting into for the people. That's who you know over the years really supports you too. You don't need to know everything, but you need to know people that are going to help you. Find the network is powerful for sure. So the network's powerful, but you know, it's, I find it really smart what you're doing with this training thing because I ask people pretty much every week on this podcast, you know, crew or gear, what's a bigger problem right now? And lately it's pretty much been all crew because gear has caught up.

1:06:32 Gear is, well, gear is gear, right? I mean, that's it. I mean it, it is. It's always going to be what it is. Well, it was very problematic for a while though, you know, you just couldn't get enough. Like everybody was out of everything. That is a ver I wasn't even I was thinking main maintenance your. Your no, no, no shortages. On after COVID, yeah, it was months, months. Yeah. For anything, yeah. Yeah. But initially, like people probably would have said, I don't know both, you know, or, or a lot of them would lean towards gear because you just like no, no matter what price you were willing to pay, you couldn't get it. Wasn't there? Yeah. Yeah, but, but now it's pretty much exclusively people, you know, and, and again, it's a shortage of people, but it's a shortage of good quality people. And so, yeah, some of the largest companies out there, largest rental companies now have not only recruiting systems built into their company where they're going out to trade shows or to job fairs or whatever, and they're really recruiting talent.

1:07:32 Companies like PRG and Solo Tech are doing that a lot, but now they've got internal training programs as well, which they may not have had ten years ago or whatever. Yeah, you just went through the ranks, right? That's it. You started a cable and you worked your way through and came out the other side. But now it's legitimately. They're trying to teach that. Yeah, Well, and. One thing you said is is early on in your career, you learned, hey, I can actually make a living doing this well, even more so now. And you know, sooner was talking about this on my podcast where she said, you know, people don't realize that this is a real job. Like this isn't, you're not gypsies, you know? And, and you can make 100 grand a year and see the world and have a really great time with a really great bunch of people and learn a lot of stuff and be on a rock'n'roll tour.

1:08:24 And people don't really understand that it looks like a gypsy lifestyle. One of my favorite things in the world is all the kids that have passed through right, We call them the fin turns right from back in the day. It's hilarious, you. Really leaned into this branding thing. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. And they move on. And, you know, I be real straight. I forget about them, right? I'm on to the next thing. But to get letters, emails, things like that same thing. I just want to tell you, you changed my life. I just bought my first truck. I just got married. We bought the our first house. And that all came from you doing XYZ when I was a kid. And I'm like. That is awesome. Right. I'm glad, you know, I'm glad I had that impact. You know, those are those those moments where you're like, you know, you, you don't realize you're doing it, but you're showing people that this is something that you can do and and you can have a great life doing it, especially in things like Vegas, right? I think that goes in a town like this, like this is a very viable career here, you know, to teach people. And I think, you know, in the old days, it was what we were looked at as glorified carnies, right? Like that's what it was.

1:09:26 And not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's that's what it was. And then especially in my neighborhood, go into the trades, go do drywall, be an electrician and go, you know, learn plumbing, do that kind of stuff. This was some like fantasy thing, but it's a real gig. It's a real, yeah, a very successful business that kids can be brought into, you know, especially with the right guidance, they're going to succeed. But I mean, early on, you know, it's like theater, people still don't make as much as they should. But you know, my ex-wife was in the record business for the entire time I knew her. And like from high school right up until recently when there was no more record business, she was, that's all she ever did, right? And the record business and it seemed like our like the touring side of our business a little bit underpaid, you know, record executives that should have gotten, you know, two 5300 thousand.

1:10:17 We're getting like 75 or 80,000. Because it's the lifestyle you get to hang out with pop. Stars, you know, And you. Get a T-shirt, you get go to shows, you get a T-shirt, right? Yeah. The touring business is the same thing you're going to. Get laid. You know, and and I mean that hooked a lot of people into the lifestyle, but again, that's the Carney side of it all. Now it's a lot more interesting and, and it's safer, it's cleaner, you know it. It's not as as crazy, you know, you can have a wife and be on tour, you know, and so. It's a health and Wellness thing here at, at Big Fan where because I learned a lot about nutrition, right?

1:10:57 We're talking about diet earlier. So I was like, I want to help people with that. They and, and these, the, the dietitians that I work with came in, they talked to me and they said, we actually have Rd. guys where we're teaching them how to eat on the road. I was like, this is brilliant. So now we're doing the classes here. But like I said, back in the day, we didn't eat. You had pizza at the end of the night, it was cold. You didn't take care of yourself. Nowadays, people are taking care of themselves. They're exercising on the road. They're they're doing those kind of things, you know, and so. Is it the after show meal on the bus now like cauliflower? Yeah, write something like that. Roasted eggplant or something, you know, I'm sure. There's still a pizza chicken around somewhere, but yeah, now there's choices though you make your choices on which are how you gonna take care of yourself out. There, well, even pizza, you know, like I've become an addict to making pizza, like I love Nepalitan pizza and you know, I've really gotten into that whole thing and, and perfecting the dough and all this stuff and and. Basic ingredients like you.

1:11:53 Said your basic ingredients, the best tomatoes, the best cheese, the best everything, right? So you're not just going and buying, you know, breakfast sausage and chopping it up and putting it on with, you know, fat bacon and stuff like trying to make a pizza as healthy as you can make a pizza. I mean, at the end of the day, it's still a whole bunch of bread. But what is delicious? Yeah, I just made pizza a couple days ago, so I was just thinking about it again. I want more pizza. I. Have to get lunch after this. Yeah, but yeah, I'm pretty good industry and again, and I think the pay is hopefully catching up. I know on our part, it's funny, I just did a big, we did a big office clean out. I found my business plan. It was written on a, it was written on a place mat from the Crown and Anchor pub in Las Vegas.

1:12:38 And literally I remember asking, how much are people getting paid? I said, we're going to pay them more. And I, you know, added some money to it. That was the, that was the start of like, OK, this is how we're going to do things. We want to elevate people here. So, and even to this day, you know, I did a big cost of living raise across the board back last July. I think I was like, dude, gas eggs, everything is through the roof. And I actually sent a like a note out to all of our clients too. And I said, listen, we're doing this here. Whether you're on board or not, we are giving everybody a raise across the board. Everybody that works for us. Hopefully you're on board and you pass that on your clients. And I said it's not a money grab. This is something you just try to elevate people in this business and, and get those old days like you said, hey, it's rock'n'roll.

1:13:21 It's going to be fun. Low pay, free T-shirt. We want to get people making a, a living wage, you know, where they can take pride in what they're doing right now. So we're a very big proponent of that. And I'm going to keep pushing that as hard as long as I can to make sure that people are getting what they're worth. Yeah, most of the labor you're providing is, is labor. It's like stagehands and. All the way we just did a show here. We had 20 a ones and 20V ones OK, so they were running all these rooms here at the Venetian for a big corporate show and then add to that we had 40 basic stagehands to help load in build that kind of stuff. So we have a really wide mix. I mean, we got a show coming up here, it's some award show or something to win.

1:14:03 But I know we got two production managers because it's all over the place. Two production managers, stage managers, show callers, all that, as well as a fleet of people to to help move gear around, build the rooms, that kind of stuff. So. Interesting. Yeah, we go all the way. I mean, I find things. I never thought I'd be putting makeup people out there in the world, but I do, right? It's just part of the world now. It's that can do attitude. Hey, you got this. Hell yeah, right. We'll find it, whatever it is. I know people. We know people that do makeup like you. You find the right ones, you vet them out, find the right people, and you put them in place. And in our industry, I think it is like, I have this company Gear Source. We sell primarily used sound, lighting, staging, video gear.

1:14:46 And it's sort of like the eBay of that world, right? And you know, lately one of the things that's been happening is a lot of companies go ham ourselves making a vig off of us when we sell on Gearsource. So I'm gonna go sell on Facebook Marketplace and not pay that vig and then I get 100% of the proceeds, which it's all good if it's if it's a really simple sale and you're selling it to your neighbor and he's gonna. Good luck with that. Now I'm gonna listen to what you have to. Say no, but he's gonna come pick it up from your shop and he's gonna pay you cash dollars when he picks it up. And plus sales tax, because you're going to get dinged for that eventually. And most companies don't even know that they need to collect sales tax on used equipment sales.

1:15:28 But this is a relatively new thing and they are monitoring it. But you know, it's all good until something goes wrong. And it's the same in your business. Like you could go to any old company and get some crew, but when there's a problem, they know that Mike is going to take care. Of him, right? Tell people I say, yeah, you can call me direct, whatever it is. I want feedback. I want anything. You know, I'm there in the morning when I can be making sure everything is good. Especially like with these logger shows. But not necessarily physically you, but it, it's the, the mentality that you've built into the company and the trust and, and all of those things that you've built into the company. So. We're going to handle it no matter. What so, But I mean, at the end of the day, like our our touring clients, you know, like when Premier Global needs 100 fixtures for, for Metallica or something and it has to be at rehearsals by, you know, the 15th of next month or whatever, they call us, they don't go to Facebook Marketplace, they call us and they know that it's going to show up on time, right? And they know it's just going to be handled. Period.

1:16:33 Also, and we'll bring this up too, in today's day and age and business environment, there are so many legalities involved in all these and I can only speak on my end on labor. No, it's the same for us. You got a bunch of guys. We're going to start a labor company. Go for it, OK, Because there's there's all the the payroll fees, the taxes, the workers comp, the liability insurance, just on and on and on and on That's the business part, right? I mean, that's. The same, it's the same with what I'm talking about, Mike. It's, it's exactly the same thing, 'cause I mean, there's, there's OK, so you can do it for free on Facebook. But The thing is when you get into logistics and you get into like, we have this very complex software system that determines when tax needs to be collected and then where it needs to be paid to.

1:17:17 And we handle all that on behalf of the sellers. So nobody has to worry about it, right? And so, you know that I'm not complaining. It's going to happen. If there's something that appears to be cheaper, people are going to, you know, it's like this shining thing that people are going to pursue. It's first until they get screwed, you know, because what's going to happen is somebody's going to get greedy and go, OK, so this buyer's in Finland and I can sell it to Finland. I can ship it myself. It's not that hard to ship from North Dakota to Finland. And it's $100,000 sound system. He's going to pay me in advance. What could possibly go wrong Well, that advance payment is fraudulent. You lost the money and you know he got the gear because he used his own freight forwarder and once they grabbed it, possession is 9/10 and you're kind of screwed now. And in 20 plus years doing this, I've never lost anybody any money on Friday. 00 dollars, you know, and I'm not even, you know, knocking on wood because we use processes, because we know it exists.

1:18:22 Right, you do you're a professional and there's. What we do, Like what you do? Yeah. Who do you want building your car? A guy that just hey yeah, I know how to fix an engine, right? Or do you want the guys that this is what we do all? Hell yeah. No, it's, it's exactly right. And you know, I learn a lot of these disciplines being around the racing thing too, because, yeah, anybody can drive a race car. But at the end of the day, there's so much more to it than that. You know, there's, there's just a lot that goes into it. And that's why we're having this conversation, right? That's why we are where we are, because we've been doing this a long time. We've learned a lot on our way up here. And we're going to continue to shape the industry, you know, because I want people to do things the right way. Yeah, no, I mean, and it's why some of the old school lighting designers or sound engineers or production managers are still so gainfully employed is because, you know, they, they know that if I give it to you, you're going to handle it. You know, and it's just things are going to go well and I don't have to worry about it.

1:19:18 That's the reputation that. Yeah, 100%. So I, I was reading about this this Paul McCartney story. So tell me this Paul McCartney story 'cause it's a pretty good one. Which one? Well, the one that you slept out for tickets. Oh, my God. OK, All right. So, yeah, I was, I was probably, I want to say 17 big Beatles had growing up, right? Yeah, I've had a an existential experience or whatever you want to call it one day on some, on some substances when I was a kid that really led me to becoming a Beatles fan, right? Where I saw Beatles faces all over the place, in the street and everywhere. So yeah, that's, that's the childhood I had. So it became a big Beatles fan. So then I'm out there.

1:19:58 So McCartney went on tour for the first time in years. I want to say this is probably 89, maybe something like that. Whatever that tour was, yeah, Hours in the dirt might have been the thing was backing up, but whatever. So at the time, I'm working at some pizza shop. I got long hair and it got the place got sold and the guy came in and said, listen, you got to cut your hair or you don't have a job. And I was like, I'm not cutting my hair. So I went home and I was like, all right, I'm just sitting in my my lawn chair in my room because the furniture I had back then, I'll be or something. And I hear on the radio McCartney tickets are going on sale. And I want, you know what? I'm going to go do that. So we went down to JFK Stadium. I was number 12. This is 2 weeks out, OK, Two weeks out from tickets going on sale.

1:20:41 I'm #12 in line. All right. So I'm sitting out. There in weeks, two weeks you camped for two weeks. I was out there for two weeks. I got my lawn. Chair. I got I had a sleeping bag that I wrapped up in trash bags and duct tape. I don't even know what gap tape was back then. I had an umbrella. I had my radio so I could listen to the radio and here we are. And it turned out the 1st 11 people in line were all homeless that, like scalpers in Philly, went. Up and said, hey, somebody paid them to be in line. You're sleeping out here. Guess what, You're going to sleep over here. And I'm going to give you a case of Natty Light and, you know, Bologna sandwiches for the whole time. Yeah, Hell yeah. So it's me and all these guys. And before this thing went over, there was about 3000 people in line, right?

1:21:22 All the way up it was. Bad. Turned into a big party so I I remember tickets are going on sale and I'm walking up there and they knew the 1st so many people were scalpers so they're giving them not the best tickets so I get up to the trailer I remember I had all my revolver tie dye and love me dudes playing on my radio and I looked at him I said listen I'm not a smell smelled like and. You got out though, right? They gave me like, what's that? You probably smelled like shit though. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but guess yeah. Look who my neighbors were, though. So what's the? Difference. That's true. Yeah, right. I mean. But it's just hard to it's hard to separate yourself from the homeless guys when you look like one and smell like one, right? Hanging out there. But it was a part. It was, I mean, we, yeah, as the line grew, as you can imagine it, party, right?

1:22:04 Yeah, yeah. You know, all the way, all the way through. So, so I get up there, they give me tickets, front row, center seats. I fucking lose my mind. I start running, you know, I'm all excited. And then it was like that Charlie and Chocolate Factory, all these people around me, hey, sell me your tickets, sell me your tickets, blah, blah, blah. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. So then me and my buddies went to the show and I knew that he ended with and in the end, the gold stones. And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. And there was, you know, this, the drum thing and then guitars going back and forth. And I knew that was coming. So when that came, I was like, I looked at my two buddies and I'm like, dude, let's all jump on stage. I was like, one of us will fucking make it up there. We're going to do this. So I looked for the weakest security guard. I remember 17.

1:22:48 Right. Why does this thought enter your mind like? What? I'm a 17 year old kid, but I I. Was a 17 year old maniac and I never looked at the stage and went I. Got to be up there. I'm doing it. I'm like, I got to be home. I was like, this is my chance to get to. A hilarious. Like, I just want to high five on some shit. So it's it's going, I jump on stage, I start running right as I got the POG and swatted out of the air. OK, All right. Of course, I'm not thinking of like nowadays I'm way older. I have like, you know, in retrospective thoughts here. I think, OK, John, what happened to John Lennon? Like, you know, security is an important thing in that world, especially after what happened to my buddy Dimebag. Like all this is very real in my brain now, but as a 17 year old kid, I'm just excited, you know, I'm pumped up with with music. So I get swatted out of the air, get thrown off the stage, land on some camera track I'm holding on to like the railings until I see the last note of the show.

1:23:42 I let go, we all go, falling back with the security guards, roll outside, meet my buddies, we leave. It's the greatest day of my life. And then years later, I get called that McCartney's doing a show at Carnegie Hall. And you know what? I like to come be a part of it. So, you know, I went in and I got to be a part of that show. I I could have my life was complete at that point. I mean, I hate to say this now as being a businessman, but I don't even care if I get paid. I was like, I just did this McCarty show. This is awesome. I like I peaked, but then time time and time again after that, I kept getting calls to go work with them on. They did Coachella, they did a one off show at the the Highline Ballroom in a little club, which when people say what was the, you know, best show that you've ever done, that was it. Standing with some like crusty old road guys with Paul and a little club doing singing Hey Jude and the whole audience is singing like I'm getting goosebumps now. That's awesome.

1:24:36 I looked at my buddy Dave Walker and I was like Dave. I was like, This is why we do this right here, you know? Are you still a big Beatles guy? Of course I love it. I'm not jumping. I'm not jumping anywhere. Yeah. I'm not even going to shows unless I get to see some of my friends there. But yeah, I am a big deal. I mean, they definitely changed things. It was inspiration for me. I mean, let's go back to that. Growing up, I looked at The Beatles, I looked at Elvis, I looked at people and said these guys made it from absolutely nothing to taking over the world. And that was the inspiration that fueled me that, you know, why did. Who cares if you're just a kid from Philly? Like, you could do anything. You could do anything you put your mind to if you're willing. Absolutely and.

1:25:16 Take the beating to get there. And that's what we do. And, and that's what we did. And that, you know, I think that's why I've always had such a connection to them. You know, they really changed the world. They went from being these kids to change in the world, and that's something that I truly feel like I'm here to do and I'm gonna continue to do that. It's part of my destiny. No, I, I completely I, I completely agree with you. Did did you ever read the book, the Mel Evans book? What's it called? I don't know if I know who made. It like my life with the living living The Beatles legend or something like that. Val Evans was like their original roadie. Guy, right?

1:25:58 Yeah, Yeah. It's a cool book. I mean, he tells some really great stories. So it's basically he wrote it, it was his Diaries and stuff. And it's his son who finally put it out. Just like, I don't know, a year ago or less. And I was never a huge Beatles guy. I was a Led Zeppelin guy. I grew up a musician and don't. Don't get me wrong, I love Led Zeppelin too, OK, And soccer and the Stones. But like I said, I had that experience when I was a kid that just tied. Me yeah yeah that's a great story though I, I mean again, you know when we talk about the young kids today or whatever right like the fact that people won't experience standing in line like that for tickets and you know 'cause everything's online now and and. You used to speak out, that's what you did. You wanted good seats.

1:26:45 You slept out, that was. Important I did. It many, many times as a kid, you know, but that's how you got the seats you wanted to get. Yeah, in Canada they had this thing called bass ticket outlets with and they were all in Sears stores. And so people would line up through the Sears store or outside the Sears store or whatever, whenever tickets were going on sale for big concerts. I remember. Those days, I don't know if it was Sears, but I remember department stores or behind the optical department or something like yeah. A little ticket office. Yeah, get in there, man. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I mean, again, nobody, young kids these days don't experience those things. They just go online and buy tickets and. Right, we're in queue, we're going to sit here and we got our space and then they get.

1:27:29 Some, yeah, And you're first in line and you get tickets in the nosebleeds and then they and then they learn how the real world really works, you know? That's right. No, it's funny. I mean it's crazy what's going on like I, I don't know what you think about it, but I, I keep saying like I keep thinking, you know, the other shoes going to drop or however you say it, but like it just seems wacky. What's happening with pricing and and just demand for live events right now, concert tickets. It's just it's. Insane. I went to a hockey game, the. Gold level, the this, the that, everything. Went since. You know, and the, and the money for those tickets is crazy, but people keep paying it. So they're going to keep doing it, right. That's the way business works.

1:28:13 They're not going to stop. If people are willing to pay prices, they're going to keep it going. Well, you've seen the the thing that's happening with with Live Nation, right? Oh yeah, you're Live Nation, right? Right, yeah, Live Nation and Ticketmaster and the Fed going after them to try and break it up. And, you know, I read a, a, there's an e-mail going around. I, I forget who wrote it, but it's somebody in our industry, a promoter. And you know, the, the bottom line is even if the government does what they want to do and get it broken up, the price ain't going to go down. You know, that'll just get eaten up by either Live Nation still or by Ticketmaster still or whatever. Like the artists want the prices higher. It's.

1:28:56 Hard to go backwards you. Know now, Oh yeah. Well, artists aren't suddenly going to go, you know, we don't want that much for tickets anymore. Like that ain't going to happen. The fee is still a small part of the the ticket, you know, like if you look at a $400.00 concert ticket, it's not 300 in fees and 100 to the artists. So, you know, yeah. They're going to keep it going. But I mean, it's, it's great for the industry and, you know, I hope it keeps happening the way it is 'cause it's just created such demand for our industry and for the people in our industry and stuff, which is amazing. And you know, the money just keeps going up and up, which is really nice. But just got to share. The wealth that's the big as a. Consumer as a consumer is brutal.

1:29:37 Like, I went to a hockey game a couple days ago, I'm here in South Florida and the Panthers are in the in the conference final against the Rangers. And I hadn't I I've been to games this season, but not in the playoffs. So a beer was 1950. Oh my God, Parking was we're going to case a beer for 20. You know you can get a case for less than that. General parking was $65 and, and I mean, two years ago parking was free in this arena, but now it's $65. I mean, it was just, it was nuts. Everything you looked at was just like, holy shit, regular people are doing this, You know, like, where are they getting the money?

1:30:17 Yeah. So you're working hard. You got to prioritize. That's and that's the hard part. That's why people need to make a good living right now because everything is getting more expensive, you know, and we need to keep up. Everything needs to keep up. It can't just be the cost going up without salaries going up too. No exactly take. Care of people so they can live these lives. Inflation. So tell me about Santa's roadies. All right, so that's a big one that's near and dear to my heart. It's my favorite day of the year. It started back, I want to say 2006 business. Mike Finn Productions was doing well. We, you know, not we were doing good. For the first time in my life, I had a business. I wasn't just working for somebody.

1:30:58 And I made enough money to buy my first Cadillac, which back then was $10,000. And to me that was an interesting amount of money. But I was able to get a 1960 Cadillac and I felt like, OK, you know, I'm really hitting it right now like things are good, life is good, business is good. All these things are happening. So I I loaded up, I bought a Santa suit, I loaded up my Cadillac with toys, I grabbed my daughter and I just started driving around. OK, she was like, she's probably 2. She's over sitting over here in her her little seat and we're going places and I'm going in. I'm delivering toys to people. Like I say, hit the Salvation Army, I hit the Children's Hospital just randomly doing this and so.

1:31:39 You just went to a department store and bought a bunch of toys or? What did you do? Those are us. OK, That's where it was. Wow. OK. Because it was across the street from my daughter's daycare. So I picked her up, and then I drove over there, just loaded it up and said, all right, we're going to do this. So just started driving around dressed as Santa, and I got pictures from back in the day. She's a little tiny kid. So then we started doing that. It became a little more established year after year. I started working with Salvation Army. They they gave me a place to set up. They brought the kids in. I was able to get a list of what the kids wanted. Really, like really building on this thing. But again, this is all personally funded and just something that we like to do. And I got to a point where as my daughter got a little bit older, she was always my little elf. And I had her like, handing out candy canes and stuff.

1:32:21 And she handed it to this one kid who he may have had like, Down syndrome or something like that. But when she handed him the candy cane, he got really excited. He started pumping his fists and got really happy. And I looked at my daughter, Dakota, and her eyes lit up. And I could see that she just got this message of like, holy shit, this is about giving. OK, Giving is way cooler than getting. And I was like, that was a moment for me to see that she realized that and she became a big part of what we were doing. So we continued on in Philly. I went up, moving up to northern Idaho. That's where I met, met her mom up in Spokane. We moved to Coeur d'Alene. So I hooked up with a women's shelter up there. And then every year they were giving me a list of, OK, here's, you know, here's what the kids, here's the kids that are here.

1:33:04 This is what the wish list is. So I was able to wrap them up, get them the wish gift, wrap it up, put their name on it, go with Santa Claus. And, and there were times when some of these little kids like really, you could tell they thought I was Santa Claus, like when they opened it up and. Saw not only the. Doll that they wanted, but the dress that went with it for themselves and they they'd be hanging out kind of like right next to me like, you know, looking up like, Oh my God, I'm standing that to Santa Claus. Those are the moments. OK. But this this was still just you and and your company doing it. Yeah, 100%. Just me. Yeah. And I was loving it. OK, me and my me and my kid. So, you know, it was it was something that I looked forward to every year. Was getting dressed like Santa, driving into Cadillac and bring and joy like that was just our thing.

1:33:47 We did it. So it stayed like that for a long time. Wherever I moved. I mean, we did a lot of families we went for, we did the women shelters, we did teen shelters. They needed stuff like the odor in socks and this and that. We really like just laid it all out and took care of as many people as we could. And then wherever I went, I continued that on through the hardest times, The hardest times. Went through a crazy divorce back in 2013. People like you still going to do it, man. You know, I know it's tough right now. I said there's no way I'm not going to do it. Like this is the year that we got to do with the most like keep it going. Kept doing it for year after year. And then we got into OK, and it was always a, so then I got a lot of good positive feedback from people in our industry, Hey, do you want to help? How can we join in this kind of thing?

1:34:28 So that production was definitely a big part of that. Like a lot of the people that I knew would they want to help. They want to volunteer, help wrap presents, whatever they could do. COVID hit and it was a big turn around. And I said, all these people that have been willing to like jump in and throw some elbow grease in there when they need it. Now they need help. I said, let's take this thing and we're flipping it instead of doing just the holidays. And we started filling up bags of food. OK, we do 200 bags of food. I'd have my daughters write little messages on them and I said you could come anonymously, come drive through, we'll take care of you. And we start doing everything that we could to help the people in our industry while we're. Going through amazing. So then it went from that to OK, instead of Christmas, now it's Thanksgiving. These people don't have anything. We came up with 200 turkeys, all the, all the trimmings, everything made-up bags of that.

1:35:17 We just really started giving back to people in the community and, and it held like we, we made a difference. There's people that I didn't even know and I'm not going to mention names, but I met them. You know, we're on shows and they said, you know, it's Cosmo actually introduced me. Hey, this is XYZ. And I shook their hand and they said, you don't even know this, but I was at a low point in my life and you gave us this dinner that like I didn't, I'm getting chills right now talking about I didn't even know that we did it, but to know that we were touching all these different lives. So then it became more of an an entity kind of like going from Mike Finn to big Finn Sanders Roadies really took on it's own it's own thing that that year and grew bigger than it ever was before.

1:36:00 So then I talked to some of my business advisors said, you know what man, you're going to keep doing this thing. You should get a make it a 5O1C, make it official, OK, and really start helping some people. So we shifted gears with that and we, we became A5O1C and we started really helping people. I'm going to, I have to tell you this, there's a guy downstairs right now. OK, I saw a little text come through. I partnered up with him last year. I'm going to backtrack. But it all ties together. It's all good. The last Christmas, so it was a 23rd and we had about 75 families will say, okay, we had tons of toys, We had everything. We're out here wrapping them. We're doing everything. We're getting ready in the shop for that. And it was a lot. There was a lot to go distribute because we're driving around dropping all this off.

1:36:41 I had a pickup truck and my Cadillac filled. So on the night of the 23rd, I get a text from this guy that he had sent an e-mail and somehow it wants to spam, but he ran a mission here and he said he had fifty families that had nothing. OK, this is the night. This is 10:00 PM on December 23rd. And everybody in the organization was like, man, that's a lot. It's too much. We've got so much to do. I said, fuck that, we're doing this. So we woke up the next morning, we rallied, we got everything. We got a bikes, we got all the stuff for the kids. We we did. We fulfilled that. Those fifty families. We drove over there and his name's Reggie. He's got something called a seeds of hope. I think it is. We partnered up since then, OK? We took care of all these people. He couldn't believe it. He was like, this is a gift from above.

1:37:22 I can't believe this is happening. You're helping so many people. So Reggie and I hooked up. He's actually downstairs right now. I'm meeting with him after this. Since then, we do a, we do an outreach every week. He feeds 500 people a week out of his house. OK, So we're a big part of that, but we're also this is important. We're looking at there's a it's a it's a old church that is for sale that we're trying to buy here in Vegas that we can turn into an outreach place where where people could come in there, they could get a shower, a change of clothes, some job training, OK. We do a lot here where we try to hire people that are coming out of jail, things like that. Like we, we want to give people an opportunity because that's what this world is about. And listen, I got an opportunity. We go back to the beginning.

1:38:05 Where did I come from? You know I want and. You can see. People that are a mess and you can see people that, hey, I just need some direction. We try to help all those people. So that's what part of this, the church thing that we're doing now is and, and yeah, we're, we're trying. To Santa's roadies now then is a is a 5O1C and and so are you raising as well or or are you just? So we do, we get, usually we get a lot of donations around Christmas, OK, That's when they all come in, right? It's www.santasroadies.org. OK, that's our that's our place. And you, you can go there, you can make donations, things like that. But now that we're going after this church, we're really like stepping on the gas here because this is a way that we could help thousands of people instead of hundreds of people.

1:38:51 And this is just a passion project for me, man, like. Good for you. I feel like the most blessed man in the universe to be sitting here having this conversation. OK, number one, to know where I came from to look at my life now, you know what, it's not easy. I'm never going to say things are easy. I always say, you know, you can get anything you want as long as you're willing to take the beat and to get there right. That's. That's you're right, you're right. But I want to help. I have a destiny here man, on this planet I want. To help the world. I mean, it sounds amazing. Easy and cliche. I want to make the world better than it is right now. I want people to go, you know what? That one guy, man, he really made an impact on my life. He, he inspired me to go change my life. And that ripples out into the world and into the universe. And you know, hippie dippie as that is, that's what it's all about.

1:39:35 Man is creating this positive energy and sending this energy out in the universe, and that's the way I wanna spend my later. Years. Well, it sounds to me like you've already done that. You know what I mean? Go bigger. Go home though, right? Yeah, you've already. Done that. We just have a toe in the water. I wanna get this ocean. I wanna create. I know what I call it, Charity Tsunami. That's what I call it, a charity Tsunami I. Want to be. To go washing out over everything and everybody and just put positive, positive change and, you know, positive motion into everything that's happened in this. World, you know what though, there's a lot of feel good in that like I, I remember when I first moved from Canada to where my now ex-wife lived in Chicago you know I, I was like you know what I don't make $1,000,000. I feel blessed.

1:40:22 I was 25 or 26 years old and and I felt like I was doing OK. And I said to her, we were listening to the Radio One morning, Jonathan Brandmeyer in Chicago, who was a big morning DJ guy. And he said, hey, there's this opportunity where you can adopt A family for Christmas. And I was like, I want to do that. I want to do that. And so we got a list from this family of the things, you know, sort of their Santa list, right? The whole family. And we fulfilled their list and we took it over to their house one night and they fed us. I don't remember, I think it was cake and coffee or something. And these kids crying as they got every gift that they asked for and stuff. I got goosebumps again right now. And that was I.

1:41:08 Do too. That was. 30 years ago, Mike. That was 30 years ago, man. But it. Felt so good and and I just thought I want to do this again next year and the year after and they killed the program. And so, you know, I can't say that I've been as good as you in going out and finding opportunities, but you've just inspired me to start thinking about. It oh, man, it's there. OK. And that's really what it's all about is yeah, listen, I'm doing the right. I'm doing my job. Then if I just inspired you, I am. Doing Oh, you definitely inspired me. Man, you know, it's just inspired you. Know I have a platform that I multiple platforms actually, but I, I've always looked for opportunities to help people.

1:41:50 And during Covic I did a lot of stuff that I'm not going to talk about, but I did a lot of stuff during Kovid that was very helpful to a lot of people. And you know, it's not, you don't do it just because it feels good. You do it because it's the right thing to do. It is the right thing to do right, 100% and there's a lot of people who don't think that way. I'm telling you, man, it's straighten that energy and just and keeping it going, you know, it all comes back around and then it goes back out stronger and it comes back around and it goes out even stronger than that. It just keeps going, you know, And that's, that's what it's all about, man. Everything that we do, look at the shows that we all got into. We all got into the Rock'n'roll. And why? Because that big energy feed that's going back and forth. Between stage. And the crowd, you know, that's, that's what life is about. You know, take that same sentiment outside of the concert venue and just make a positive change and push that out into the world, you know, with full force. That's what it's.

1:42:42 About I think that's where we should end. All right, a perfect ending and plus you got this dude waiting for you downstairs. So Mike, I appreciate you taking some time. It's been cool getting to know you a little bit. Really been a pleasure. I appreciate you having me on and I'm glad we got to catch up and do this and let's keep in touch outside of this 100%. Now let's keep in touch. No, I was gonna say when I get to Vegas, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look you up and come in and see your place and stuff. Please do. Please will do. Yeah, well, I'll show you what we're doing out. Here. Absolutely. I'd love to. All right. We're so thanks so much, buddy. Appreciate your time. No, I appreciate it. Thanks. All right, buddy, Yeah.