#244 - Claude Viens

0:01 Hello and welcome to Geyses of Gear Episode #244. Today's podcast is brought to you by ACT Entertainment. Unlock your potential with the ACT Academy New Professionals bundle. Exclusively designed for students and educators in North America, this comprehensive package provides not only access to the entire Grand MA beginner learning path, but also a Grand MA 3 Viskey with the power to unlock the most exciting visualization tools on the market today. Tailored to empower a new generation of professionals and the educators who train them, the New Professionals Bundle equips you with the skills and tools needed to excel in tomorrow's entertainment lighting industry. Whether you're a student aspiring for a passion driven career or an educator striving to inspire, the ACT Academy New Professionals Bundle is a massive opportunity you won't want to overlook.

1:03 Visit actentertainment.com today to learn more. This episode is also brought to you by Gearsource. Founded in 2002 with an ambitious mission to support live events, businesses buy and sell gear globally. Since that time, the company has transacted in more than 100 countries, selling 1/4 billion dollars in sound, lighting, staging and video gear. Gearsource continues to evolve the platform for massive global growth, enabling localized currencies, payments held in escrow to protect buyers and sellers, AI powered logistics behind a new global logistics brand, and more. Throughout 2024 and beyond, the company will continue to grow its toolbox for the benefit of users worldwide. So why not take full control over your gear with a visit to gearsource.com episode 244? We're back and it is that time of year again. What time is it, you ask?

2:35 Great question. It is Eurovision Song Contest time. So it just happened last week and it was the 68th edition of the Eurovision Song Contest and it took place in Sweden, in Malmo, Sweden. And the winner is Nemo from Switzerland. So there you go. I know you were dying to hear that. And probably more appropriately or more applicably to our industry is the usual orgasm of gear involved in putting this show on. And so I'm going to go down sort of a summarized version of this list. But audio, I'm not really going to go into too much. It was a bunch of digico consoles and a ton of L acoustic K1 and Cara systems.

3:31 I think there was some outline stuff there. It was just a a ton of audio equipment. And I think there were like 4 digico consoles, you know, just crazy amounts of gear. Lighting though was nuts. So 708 active universes were utilized, 708 universes, 52 robe Forte HCF. And I'm not sure what HCF means, but I'm sure someone's going to tell me 14 Robe T twos, 57 robe T ones, 169 Rocks Light Cluster S2.

4:16 I'm not sure what that is. I think it's some sort of a Blinder 22 Claypacky Skylos. So those are the the larger laser fixtures that do the sky tracking stuff. 376 Claypacky Tambora Linear 8RE Sky Panel, S30C16 Estera Hydro Panels, 32 Estera Titan Tubes, 32 BB and S pipeline reflect bicolor and I'm not sure what that is. That must be a British thing or something. 360 Airton Ravalli, which I would think is probably the largest use thus far of of Ravalli's 'cause it's pretty new fixture 138 brand new Airton Kayalami's and I don't know if I said it right, I know it's quite funny, but Olaf, I I watched a video of Olaf from from this show.

5:17 Ola Melzig talking about the Kayalami and he calls it the Salami because he can never really remember the name. I think 43 Ayrton. Hurricon Wash 2 Ayrton EUR 2. Is that the right number? Maybe I cut a number out of that one, but says 2 Ayrton Euros 525 Chauvet Pixel Bar 1628 GLPJDC ones. Funny they didn't use JDC twos on this. 264 Mac ones, Martin Mac ones, 40 Martin Mac Aura XI PS So that is quite a list. I think it's just over 2000 fixtures in total and wow, you know, and I watched the show or I watched parts of it. I've seen a bunch of videos of it and you know, lots of lights for sure.

6:11 Lots and lots of lights. Did it blow me away? Maybe not, but lots and lots of lights. And you know, it's impressive from just a scale standpoint, I guess. What else is going on? Plaza Leeds is today and tomorrow, the 14th and 15th of May, which is yesterday and today I think. And by the time you hear this, it's a week ago, so forget about it. And of course my favorite topic once again is AI. So I'm kind of excited this week because I'm a geek and I use ChatGPT almost like it's my best friend. And GPT 4 O arrived this week, so I thought it was 40, sort of with a typo in it because it's a big four and a little O, but it's actually four and the letter O. And I forget what it stands for.

7:00 Omni I believe is what the O stands for. But it arrived this week. I think it officially dropped either yesterday or the day before, which would be the 13th or 14th of May. And what have I noticed? I've noticed it's quicker. I've noticed that they've definitely spent some more time on the the sort of human interface, the human slash voice interface on it. It is meant to be used with your voice. It's meant for you to have a conversation with it. And that's on my phone anyways. That's how I've been using ChatGPT is really just having a conversation saying, you know, I'd really like to design something like this with this and this. What do you think, you know? And maybe we could add this and and then of course, you know, really again, it all comes down to the prompting.

7:46 It comes down to how you're prompting who you're acting ChatGPT to behave like. Do you want it to be a lawyer? Do you want it to be a doctor? Do you want it to be, you know, a website designer And. And then exactly what your expectations are for output. So you know, you don't want to be wishy washy. Otherwise it makes up some pretty wacky stuff. And I'll tell you one of the things that continues to plague me and and probably others who who rely heavily on ChatGPT at this point is when you are creating specifically things in Dolly graphics, images, etcetera. And you say, I want it to have these words on it or I want it to be a logo for this company name or whatever spelling errors like crazy.

8:35 And you'll say correct your spelling errors and then it'll spell something else differently and fix the words that you had before. And that is a frustration that I've found and and in researching it, it's a frustration that a lot of people have found. One of the great things that really is going to come out of this new four O is a lot of new virtual assistant capabilities and tools and functionality. Which I think is one of the things that at least I've always said and I know a lot of people have always said that the early stage of this large language model, ChatGPT kind of stuff. One of the pieces of low hanging fruit is probably going to be this whole personal digital assistant thing where it books your flights.

9:22 It does this, it does that, it does like a lot of things that a a busy executive or a busy person would want help with. I'm not saying it's gonna replace personal assistance, but I think it's going to augment them or for people who don't have them. Like I don't have an assistant, never really have as busy as I've been. I've always preferred to do things on my own pretty much, and I think I'm pretty hard to keep track of sometimes. It was funny. I actually had an assistant one time at Martin. I can't remember her name. Anyways, whatever her name was, nice lady. But she was so frustrated because, you know, I was booking my own meetings, I was booking my own flights.

10:05 She didn't know where I was half the time. This was, you know, before iPhone and so you know, it was a more frustrating experience for her than it was for me, I think. But I'm just one of those guys likes to do stuff on my own, but it is nice to get help. And so yes, I'm using a lot of different AI tools and you know I I look for AI tools that really help to improve my day, help me focus on sort of that 20% stuff that's really important to me. And that I guess offers the biggest returns to me while a lot of the simpler things the the more menial or repetitive tasks. I will look to tools, ChatGPT but also many others that are very specific, very purpose created, you know things that do very specific things.

10:58 And you know I've been playing with a lot of those recently and they're excellent, they're all excellent. I mean the problem is and and I was actually talking with Sarah about this, this morning, you don't want to over commit. So like let's say you find something that's really great at creating presentations which we have and we've been using something called Gamma, which is excellent for creating presentations but also websites. You can do a full website in a few minutes on Gamma and it will even publish the website to the Internet. But you don't want to over commit and sign up for a year on these things because you know there's a hundred more coming like next week and and the bar just keeps going up and up and up and up and they just keep getting better and better. You know one of the, So what else let me go through, what other news was there in AI world? Interesting talk last week with Jim from Vectorworks on some of the ways they've been incorporating AI and and how they're also being cautious and mindful of the fact that they don't want to cut designers legs out from under them or programmers legs out from under them. And one of the ways I've used AI and I'm sure a lot of other people, you know when you're on Zoom calls or any kind of video meetings, zoom meet, whatever, are you using any kind of a personal assistant to come on that call with you and take notes?

12:26 And I'm finding more people are, but most tech people are like not so much in our industry. But when I have a meeting with someone in the tech world, they always do. But people in our industry still, it's kind of a slow they're slow to adapt to this thing where you're using a tech like a robot basically to come in and take notes. But we I've mentioned it before, but my company is on something called Rome, which is a very cool virtual office platform. And if if you're ever listening to this and you'd like me to demo it, or you'd like even the company to demo it, I have no deal. I have no kickbacks, I have no payment. They're not a sponsor.

13:07 I just love the product. I pay to use it, just like everybody else does. And the cool thing is, there's only one price. It doesn't matter if you're IBM getting Rome from them or if your little old gear source getting Rome from them, but Rome has something called Magic minutes which records our meetings and it's not recording the video, it's just recording notes and the cool thing. So it'll spit out a summary. It'll basically say here's the high level stuff you talked about. Here are some takeaways or action items from the meeting and you know, here's maybe some follow up you need to do well from there. Anyone who was in that meeting will get that e-mail and we'll be able to go in and ask questions and say did we talk about this, did we talk about this? Were there any details about the dimensions of the stage for this show or whatever?

14:00 And it'll give you back all of the notes from those specific things. So even though it's showing you a very summarized view of the notes, it's got all of the notes and we'll package them however you want. It's pretty, pretty excellent. I use it all the time. So yeah, that's sort of my AI section for this week. Thanks very much. Actually Eric Loder reached out to me after the last episode, one of the recent episodes, and he heard me talking about Sam Altman I think. And Sam Altman is the the CEO of ChatGPT Open AI and Sam has been on a couple of interesting podcasts recently. If you listen to podcasts, I really liked the Lex Friedman Sam Altman podcast, very good. And also just in the past four or five days was there's a podcast called All In which is another tech podcast and Sam was on that and that was also very good. It gives you a good, like, I know a lot of people out there just want to dispel this and throw it into the garbage and make it go away.

15:04 This whole AI thing, it's not going to happen. You know, that's just not going to happen. It's not going away. It's not going to disappear. You can't wish it gone. But I think listening to Sam who's who's sort of really positioned right now as one of the leading guys in the AI world, listening to him talk is actually rather calming because there are a lot of safety concerns and security concerns and and there's a lot of thought and and energy going into, you know, keeping the world safe with with all of these very rapidly learning AI models out there. So check out those podcasts. And as far as our podcast, if you don't mind, Please remember to like and subscribe to whatever medium you watch or listen to our podcast on. Certainly it's gaining momentum on YouTube. That's still our smallest platform. We get, you know, couple 100 views per episode maybe and starting to climb up because we do all the shorts and stuff and they're getting a lot of traction. Our biggest platform today is somewhere between Spotify and Apple.

16:13 Apple, of course, is audio only. Some people prefer to to consume podcast audio only. Still, I do about half and half now, half audio, half video. If I'm out for my walks or whatever, I do it on audio, but I will give you a hint or a pointer. If you use Spotify, you can do audio and video and it'll basically keep your place wherever you are. So if you're listening and then you get to a place where you actually want to watch the podcast, you can just click on the video and it'll be right at the same spot you were listening at. So Spotify is, you know, as far as a user experience or user interface. I really like it a lot for podcasts, and that's kind of where I listen to a lot of my podcasts if they're available there.

17:03 Joe Rogan, I listen to and watch on on Spotify as well and we host our platform or our podcast on Spotify also. So I think there's some extra benefit there as well. So yeah, please though, when you listen to it like those episodes that you do like, don't like the ones you hate. Fortunately for us, there's not a hate little emoji or whatever, but like the ones that you like and please subscribe, all of that helps us. You know, there's all these crazy, you know, Internet and Google algorithms and things and the more likes and the more subscriptions we get, the better the podcast does. That's good for us, it's good for our listeners and it's good especially for our sponsors.

17:47 So please, I would appreciate that. And even comment, you know, whether it's on YouTube or on Spotify, you can put comments on the podcast itself and those are all helpful as well. So I appreciate that very much and we still have a couple of spots available in June. We're booked up in May. I think June is about 8590% booked according to Sarah. There's a couple of spots open. I think there's one near the beginning and then maybe one or two near the end. So that's just producer at geezersofgear.com. Reach out to Sarah and fill the spot again, the criteria is the bar is low.

18:27 Are you interesting? You know, that's really all that matters to us is that you're interesting and our listeners are going to to like you, find you interesting. So they don't even have to like you. They could hate you and find you interesting. I think some days that's me. So today's guest and God, I don't know how to say his last name. The first name is Claude or Cloud. I'm not sure how he pronounces that either. The last name is viens. Claude is a Product Specialist for Lighting at AVL Media Group, one of our sponsors in Montreal, Canada. Cloud is responsible for projects and support in North America.

19:10 He spearheaded AV LS continued growth in the professional lighting and visual effects marketplace. He has 30 plus years of experience spanning a wide range of disciplines from lighting, live events, lighting design, stage lighting, lighting control, tour management, architectural lighting, LED lighting systems and event planning. Claude's international experience as a lighting designer, programmer and board operator in every type of production from music to dance to film is an incredible benefit to AVL Media Groups customers as they look to the industry leading technology to help them wow their audiences. Claude has his own podcast called Backstage Cowboys. He started it in 2018.

19:59 He has also written 2 self published books which I intend to talk about. So please welcome to Geezers of Gear, Claude Viens. Hello Claude. How are you? Hey. Marcel, I'm very well. How are you? I'm pretty OK What is it? Wednesday. It's Wednesday as we record this, so I'm halfway through, you know, getting my ass kicked this week. I guess it's it's been a good one. OK, OK. So Wednesday is OK and I suppose Friday is the day. Friday, Friday for me. So I've never been one of these guys who works for the weekend.

20:40 I've I've always loved Mondays for some crazy reason. I love work. I love what I do. And so I've always really liked Mondays, but lately I really kind of do like Fridays. You know, I I try not to book a lot of meetings on Fridays. Fridays for me are kind of like a it's, I wouldn't call it a free day, but it's a day when I get to do a lot more thinking and a lot less in and out of meetings all day, typically. I mean, sometimes Fridays are just as crazy as every other day, but that's how I like to line it up anyways. And and you know, I tend to work all weekend too. So it just feels different though, you know, It just feels different.

21:20 Well, for me, Monday used to be my day off in my touring days. It was a quiet day when everybody went to work and I could do whatever I want and no traffic and it was all good, you know? That's cool. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. You know, so this is kind of fun. I get to do a podcast with a podcaster and it's strange. For me though, is it? Yeah. I feel I'm on the wrong side of the mic here, yeah. Well, you know what? You know, First of all, I respect the fact that you have a mic. You know, I don't know if it's one of your pet peeves, but I certainly, I love when somebody has a proper microphone and God forbid, even headphones sometimes. Yeah, it makes such a difference. Like, I I love good audio quality on podcasts that I listen to, so I also like to produce one with decent quality as well.

22:07 But generally it's not in your hands. As you know, like somebody comes into a Zoom call and they're talking to a computer that's four feet away or something and or onto their cell phone. And it's not always the best quality, but. Or the line bombs off, bombs up halfway. Yeah. And. And you have to change to a different platform. I've done that once. So I have an interview that has two different sounds. Oh, I have so many of those. Because what happens, like some of mine go 3 hours, you know, and so their air pods will die and then they'll be ruffling around trying to find another set of headphones or another microphone or something, and then that something goes wrong. And I've had so many of those.

22:48 Like, literally so many of them. But I apologize for my cracky chair, by the way, It's. It's all good. Yeah, this is, this is the chair I've had for years and years. I've been. I was gigging with it back in the days when I was I was working on movie sets. Oh really? Yeah, I I spent some money and I bought a quality chair. Because you could be literally sitting behind a light board for 14 hours. Yeah. And and in those 14 hours, you could have like a stretch of six hours where nobody just needs anything. So you're just sitting on your chair? You know what's funny is that often times I will ask people, especially lighting designers or front of house engineers or whatever, I'll ask what are like 3 pieces of gear you won't leave the house without?

23:36 And so many people say a comfy front of house chair. Oh yeah, you know it. It just makes such a difference because you're spending so much time there. Exactly. But it's been all over, so now it's it's really getting cracky. But. Yeah. Well, still what happens? The good news is I have noise cancellation on my side, so we'll get rid of it. Super. So do you play guitar or bass or both? OK, so both over your right shoulder there. For the last five years I've been playing bass, but it's I've started playing music in 69. Oh yeah, I funny, funny story. I was five years old and and my parents brought me to the living room and there was this thing in the middle of the living room and they asked me, do you know what that is?

24:24 I said a heater. They lifted the cover and it was a cord organ. Oh wow. Wow. That's funny. So I started playing the organ in 69 and all the way up to the 80s. Wow, when I was playing in a band that sounds like you're exactly the same age I am if you were five in 69, because there you go, I have a big birthday coming up this year. Oh, really? Mine. Mine isn't yet. Mine's in in a month, Actually, A month. Actually, it's less than a month. Now it's a month, less a week. So two days. Is that a celebration for you or is it a downer? It's a big downer. Yeah. I mean, just, you know what, like part of me should think it's a celebration. First of all, my dad died at 52 years old and so I've outlived him already, so it should be a big celebration in that regard. I'm relatively healthy.

25:17 I'm relatively successful. I've had a great life and all of those things, so it really should be a celebration. But God, it's 60, you know? It just feels so old, you know? So yeah, I mean, fifty was rough for me too, and I don't know why, Because, you know, 40, I didn't care at all. 30, I didn't care at all. But 50 all of a sudden I think it's 'cause you grow up as a kid thinking 50's old. Yeah. And now here you are, you just turned old and then you're like, well, jeez, at least I'm not 60. So you spend 10 years thinking that and here I am looking at it so. What about you?

25:59 Probably it was the opposite really. I found the 30s were hard because that's when you're struggling to build a career, to raise a family. You're always running after money and 40s. I started getting some, you know, some ease, but The thing is I started this career as a a lighting, you know, LD lighting designer, lighting programmer, call it whatever you want. And I was 39. So had I known probably when I was in school I could actually earn a living doing this. I might have done it earlier but no. I've been through all sorts of stuff and and at 39 I just pulled the the plug and I said hey, how about if I just try doing what I want to do. And and that's how it started.

26:49 So for me at 4040 was a revelation. It was like, oh, we can start having fun now and and earn a decent living. Yeah, so that's cool. Yeah, so. For me it's the opposite. I'm getting younger as I get older. I'm actually in better shape now than when I was 20, so. I kind of am too, because I don't have a lot of the demons that I had when I was 20, you know, I'm not as I'm not living as rough or or wild or whatever you want to call it as I did when I was 20. But you know, recently I've I've definitely, since since 50, I've definitely focused a lot more on health and longevity and and realizing, realizing that hey, I can kind of extend my health span here to, you know, my later years. So, so many people are focused on that final year. Like is it going to be 85 for me, whatever that year is, I want to live life until like a month before it, you know what I mean?

27:46 Like I want to be doing what I want to be doing. Like Mick Jagger, you know seeing him the other day I I watched a video of him in Las Vegas and he literally ran from like the stage all the way out to I guess it's AB stage or they've got a ramp going out to the to the front of house or something. But he sprinted like he ran like a 16 year old and he's 80, you know and and so living the life you want to live with health and not like being stuck in bed or or on a couch with your feet elevated or whatever it is, right? Yeah. That to me is is what I'm trying to do. So whether that number is, is 75 or 85 or 100, I want to live life right up to that point. You know, I I don't want the 10 years of dementia or 10 years of whatever else it is, and I'm not knocking any of people who have that or anything.

28:43 I'm just saying if I can help it now, I wanna do the things that I need to do to be healthier later. Yeah, I was gonna recommend you a book that I read a few years ago and I actually rebought in the form of audiobook. It's called Younger Next Year. I've done it, yeah. You've done it. Yeah, yeah, Robert Roth who is now with OK, so wait, he was Christy. Now he's 4 Wall. Robert Roth is with four Wall and he's I think turning 70 this year. And the guy just has energy for days. You know, he's one of the top touring lighting executives out there. He was he had his own company called RA Roth in in Atlanta for a long time sold that company to PRG was with PRG for a long time then Christy for a long time and and just recently went to to four wall and but I don't know 10 years ago probably he he said Marsal you got to read this book and so I bought a paper copy of it and and an audio book as well and I've listened to it multiple times.

29:50 Yeah, I like it a lot. Well, it and it and it works. Yeah, it really works. Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you. And you know, like they say basically the same thing. Like we're all going to die. Like this thing does have an expiration date on it at some point. But why not live really well up until the point that you die? How about living and being healthy and like, they go snow skiing in their 70s and stuff like that. And no, it's a great book. I recommend it to anybody younger next year. Really good book. Well, anybody our age, let's say. Yeah, you know, yeah, because before that you don't. You don't take it seriously. In your 40s, you don't think about that kind of stuff. Longevity. In, in your 50s, you start going, well, wait a second, you know, my knees hurt and they didn't used to hurt before. What's going on?

30:36 You know, So yeah, so you were telling me about the you're a bass player now. Is that because nobody else wanted to play bass or or was that a choice? No, it's a choice. And I've always loved bass. I I was a songwriter back in the 80s and I used to. My favorite part was writing the bass lines. But I was never a bass man. So either I hired a bass man or I played it on the keyboard and try to make it look as real as possible. Our sound as real as possible, which I did a pretty good job at. Because when you know when you know how it's supposed to feel, you can play around with your keyboard and your your Bender and whatever and and try to get that natural feel.

31:19 Yeah, But when I turned 54, I believe I I just figured, hey, why don't I just buy a bass and start playing. Yeah. And luckily I was working for, you know, for who I'm working now, AVL Media Group, which is a division of Intellimix, which used to carry a lot of musical instruments. Yeah, how convenient. How convenient, exactly. So I went to Steve Barber and I said, OK, what's the coolest place I can buy, you know? Yeah. And I started looking at at at the the offerings. Yeah, actually this is cool, 'cause we have we have image, right?

32:00 Yeah, that's going to suck for the people just listening to it, but. Well, it's a it's a Dean Hillsborough John Lohan signature. Oh, cool. That's very cool. Yeah, it's, you know, it's a decent base. It's not. Yeah, it's not. It's not anything you know, worth thousands of dollars. Yeah, but it plays well and it sounds good and you know, it's just like lighting. We talk about this a lot when we're talking about lighting. Everything's good now, You know, it's not like you've got good way over here on one side and really crappy way over here on the other side. Everything's good. So it's just a matter of choosing what you like the most. You know there's there's not this massive gap between like Fender and Gibson and everything else. You know exactly.

32:45 I mean it's it's hard to make a bad instrument now with all, yeah, you know, with all the the resources. Yeah, yeah, I know a lot of people who make, like make their own guitars now and you know, you can buy components from a variety of sources, including Amazon. But, and you know, they're just kind of creating these Frankenstein guitars and and doing a really nice job of it. So cool instruments out there. Yeah, I kind of went the opposite direction. So I I had a really weird start. I started as a singer and I was in the 6th grade, so I think I was about 13. And you know, we were doing gigs. We were doing big gigs, like I was signing autographs and stuff when I was a singer at 13 years old. And our manager fired our bass player one day. And our manager was a Catholic priest. This story gets crazier, trust me. And he fired our bass player and said, you know, here, Marcel, learn to play it at rehearsals.

33:49 He says learn to play it. And you know, it's like 4 weeks till our next gig or whatever. So I had to learn to play an instrument. Didn't play any. I I played a tiny little bit of guitar but like just twang, twang, you know, smoke on the water or something. But you know, I had to not only learn to play an instrument, I had to do 40 songs in four weeks. You know, that's a challenge. And sing. I was the singer, so I had to sing and play. Singing and playing bass is yeah, it's something. It takes a minute and I only had a minute to figure it all out. And somehow I did though. I mean I became a bass player and a singer and I still, I still struggle with that, yeah.

34:29 And then went on to decide I just want to be a bass player now. And I just kind of backed up a little bit on the stage and I did background vocals for the most part and and didn't sing quite as much. But then I went to work for a music store and ended up being a part owner in a chain of music stores based out of Calgary. And you know, selling all this stuff and whatever. I just got rid of all my stuff. I never played anymore and whenever I picked something up it was always a guitar and you know because you were always like showing expensive guitars to kids or whatever and and so you'd play a couple little notes and you'd figure some stuff out to just demo a guitar or make a a amp sound good or something. And so now I own a bunch of guitars and I think 1 bass and I I don't if I pick anything up it's a guitar not a bass. But I have a peeve though and I wonder if you're this guy. Let's hope not guitar players who become bass players and play the bass like a guitar.

35:35 Like, I mean just basically it's a guitar, but it's only got 4 strings, yeah. And I don't like it. Like it's not the same. Feel. Neither do I. Yeah, I don't mind melodic bass. Yeah, up to a certain point. There are some great songs out there that have melodic bass. Well, like Geddy, Lee, Geddy Lee. Yeah, well, exactly. You know, but bass is the infrastructure of a sound along with the drum. Yeah. So I think that it should just be like the what do you call the foundation? Yeah, I agree with you completely. Yeah.

36:16 And a really good bass player could just be going dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk like, I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know, all kinds of crazy licks and stuff, but it just makes that foundation so solid. And you know, I know so many of those guys who do it really, really well, and there's a few guys who are really good bass player slash guitar players, and you didn't hear the intro. My intro and outro music is a Gotto song. And so Greg Gotovitz is a very good friend of mine, one of my best buddies and he's a guy who was a very good bass player, very good singer and is also a great guitar player. And so, you know, he, he played the instruments differently. He didn't just play a bass like a like a different guitar, you know, so.

37:06 Well, sometimes you can adapt. I mean, if I'm actually, if I'm playing alone, yeah, just having fun. I'll be all over the neck. Yeah. If I'm playing with other people, I'm just sitting They they what they call the money notes. Yeah. Down at the at the end of the neck. Yeah. What really makes the sound, the the the, the song sound good. Yeah. That's that's where I'll be navigating. And I'll just try to, you know, stay in my spot and, yeah, not so. Do you actually gig? Do you Do you go out and gig with guys not? Really. No, not really, No. Get together. Don't want to. It's just, well, I'm still working a lot, yeah, So and and I'm starting to think that at this time and age, I'm not sure I really have time to work.

37:52 So many other things to do. Yeah, it's funny. Anyway, Yeah, it's. Funny, seeing that people seem to be living older and older. Yeah, like my father's 83 and he didn't see that one coming. Yeah. So I figure OK if I'm going to be around till I don't know 9095, which is thinkable. Yeah. Oh well, I better have a lot of money. Stashed up, you know? Yeah, that's the thing, huh? So I'm not in too much of a hurry to pull the plug like my father did at 50. Yeah. Well, you know the other weird thing, and sorry to go down this morbidity route, but my girlfriend and I were talking about this like, OK, so let's think, what if you were able to live to 110 or 120 or whatever? Because with all of the longevity hacks and stuff that are happening now, it's not unthinkable that you could live to 120 a 125 years old, actually, reasonably. I'll just say this, I've I always tell everybody I'm going to live to 120.

38:50 Yeah, OK. And this is my philosophy. If I make it, I'm right. And if I don't make it, nobody will ever have the occasion to tell me I was wrong. That's true, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you. I don't care. No, it's totally true. Well, and there's a guy, I forget his name. He did a book called Superhuman that I listen to. He's a bio hacker and, you know, a longevity guy for sure. And he talks about, I think he thinks that he's going to live to 160. And, you know, but he's literally like, you know, one of these guys that's pumping all kinds of different wacky things into his body and trying every experimental everything that he possibly can and just milking every inch out of every single cell in his body. But what we were talking about my girlfriend and I. So let's say you could live to 120. After 80, I think life starts getting lonely because your kids are grown up.

39:52 They have their own kids that becomes their sort of core unit. Them and their kids, their parents are more of a a pain in the ass than they are like somebody that they want to spend a lot of time with anymore. A lot of your friends have died. Most of your friends sometimes all of your friends, sometimes your siblings may have already passed on or whatever. Your siblings are older or less healthy than you and they've passed on and so I'm just imagining that like. You're in great shape or whatever you're you're healthy, you're going to live to 100 years old, but everyone around you has died and it just becomes so lonely. So not only are you looking at your cash going, jeez, I'm running out of money. If I knew I was going to live to 100, maybe I would have saved more.

40:36 But you're also looking around you and going, I don't know anyone anymore, you know, it's kind of weird. Then again, I think Madonna has has a solution to that. Just reinvent yourself. Yeah, that's true, huh. That's true. Let's. Go somewhere else. Keep, keep being creative. Yeah. I mean, I I always figured there's a lot of stuff I'd like to do now that I don't have time. And I figure while I'm I got to keep some projects for later in case I'm still around. Yeah, yeah, that's true, huh? That's how I see it, and it's not. It might not be with my friends, might not be with my kids. We'll see what happens. We'll, we'll just move on to something else, yeah. So, so I touched on it earlier. You have a podcast and it's called Backstage Cowboys. And so first of all, you know, tell me how that came about and the name and and are you still doing it? And yeah, tell me about Backstage Cowboys. Well, I I am still doing it.

41:34 I'm not recording episodes regularly because I'm pretty sure you're the best person to understand that. It's very time consuming. It is. So whenever I have, you know, some time to myself, I'll I'll reach out to some people and or if if there's an opportunity somewhere, I'll just record an an episode and and put it up there. The idea came maybe some 10 years ago. I was head of lighting department at Coda Focus Aerial Lighting video shop in Montreal and at on Friday afternoons we if if we weren't loading a truck or something, we were just, you know, chilling.

42:20 And we were at the back of the shop having a beer and talking about all sorts of stuff and so many great stories came out of of those gatherings. And at some point I had a partner back then who was handling the the audio section and I said hey, wouldn't it be cool like to share these stories with whoever wants to hear them. Why don't we just start a podcast or something and the guy says, yeah that's cool, I do. So at some point I moved on and and he actually he went to what was it Vietnam or something like that Taiwan. Anyway, he went there for a while and and when he came back I had already put everything in place.

43:07 I figured you know we we need to do this for real and but when he came back he got a job at solo tech and he was very busy. So I said yeah OK well whatever I'll just carry on the project at the same time. The idea was to create a sort of lounge where old guys and new guys, you know guys and girls could meet up and and mingle and share stories and learn stuff. And I was, I was really aiming towards education and helping the younger guys make their way into this this mess or? This wonderful business. Yeah, this wonderful business. That's what I that's what I should be saying.

43:48 Yeah. So anyway, if if I had that when I was young, I might have done the the move earlier as I was saying. So yeah, I just decided to to start that. So I created the backstage cowboys.com website and the podcast and A blog and then then a a YouTube channel with a couple things where I do sometimes I do product reviews on that. Now for the products I have the opportunity to play around with since I work for distributor sometimes and I'm the I'm the honest guy. Yeah. So I'll I'll grab a product and I'll I'll do an honest review on it. Whether I'm whether it's my boss or not that's distributing it. I'm always honest and even like when AVL hired me first thing I said is you know the wrong the the the worst thing you can do is sell the wrong product to somebody because those are all my friends out there on the field. So if it you know if something goes wrong at 3:00 AM, I'm getting the call.

44:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get this right from the start, OK? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So if I have what you need, fine. I'll be more than happy to to, you know, to to provide it. And if I don't have what you need, I won't have a problem sending you to a competitor because that's what you need. Yeah, yeah. So that's interesting. So you've done, I think I read you've done 26 episodes so far. I think you know better than I do. So around, yeah. So you haven't been quite as active as we are, 'cause you started a year before us. We started in 2019. Similar idea, by the way. The funny thing about geezers of gear, though, is when we started it, the geezers were me and one of my employees who worked for me. We were the geezers.

45:34 We were basically old guys that were going to talk about gear and then we had people reach out to us and say hey I want to come on your podcast and and you know I think I'm a geezer I could probably come on and so it kind of shifted where the geezer became the guest more than it was us right. And but, you know, we've had lots of young guys, young girls, ladies on the podcast. And so Geezers of Gear now is just kind of a funny name that sometimes is in the way, you know, because people are like, well, I don't know, I'm if I'm old enough, but I'd like to come on your podcast. No, you're good. You're old enough. Sorry I had to cough there. So yeah, you know, I again, I mean it. It's fun talking to a podcaster because you know, AI like to geek out on technology and how to do a good podcast. And you know, like I said, I I appreciate the fact that you have a microphone, you know, because not everyone does and I don't, I don't force it on people like the bigger podcast, the the the guys and girls who are doing podcasts for millions of of people and they're they're bringing in, you know $100,000 or more an episode for sponsorship and stuff. What they'll do is they'll package like an audio package and send it out to the to the person and sometimes even a video package too.

46:56 And they sometimes send a person out to set it all up and create a remote video studio for the the guest. Obviously for you and I, we can't really do that. You know we can't be sending equipment out too and. That's not the goal either, right. Yeah, I mean, you can create a great content without necessarily being high end. Yeah, by just being, like, good enough that it's pleasant to listen to. Right, exactly. Yeah. And you know some of the tools now too like the one that we use Riverside has a lot of audio processing in it and so and it's all up processing. So they're basically assuming that people are treating this like a zoom call talking directly into their laptop or whatever.

47:42 So they're doing echo cancellation, noise cancellation, enhanced audio, they're levelling audio. So I don't have to worry about that anymore as far as making sure that the mix is right. They'll they'll just fix the mix and. I know everybody does. Like I do hang coats and blankets all around to just yeah, down the echo. Yeah, well you don't need to anymore. You just don't need to anymore. I mean with with audio, sort of audio specific platforms out there that make the tools so that you can record really good audio even directly off your iPhone, you know, it's not really necessary. So not everybody is gonna have a a sure SM 7B or you know, a big mixer or any of that stuff.

48:33 It's like me like I I keep buying cameras thinking I need a five $600.00 camera to record my podcast and I always end up right back on my laptop camera, 'cause it's just the easiest thing. I'm sitting right here, the camera's right there, you know, I don't need to download or upload anything. It's pretty straightforward. Well, I've. I've tried APTZ camera lately. Yeah. And because I'm, I'm, I'm going, I'm going somewhere else here. Yeah, I just had an idea. Yeah. Because sometimes I do presentations and I had to talk to a bunch of dealers in the States, and I had to present some Spotlight fixtures. Yeah. And I actually, I I wanted to do something a bit more dynamic than just sitting in front of my laptop. I wanted to be able to show some gear and actually open up a spot and show what, why this spot is particular and you know why, why this is better than anything else that's out there, right? Yeah.

49:31 So I pulled out a PTZ camera because we're doing BZB gear now and we're distributing that in Canada and we'll. Have to hit you up for a camera after. Well, we can talk to Steve about it, I'm pretty sure. But anyway, I pulled out a camera right out-of-the-box, hooked up my computer, opened up, Zoom. Bam. It was following me all over the showroom. It was amazing. You just have to. You just have to understand how the camera thinks, because there's a whole bunch of settings in there. You can actually set zones and that it won't move between this point and this point, but if you pass that line, then it'll adjust on you.

50:11 So it's not constantly moving. But I found out that if I want, if I move over like to a specific spot and I want to show something, but the camera zoomed on me right, and then I'll go past that spot and then I'll come back like 2 feet and then the camera won't move for two feet. But it's actually focused on what I want to show. So you just have to sort of play around with that. But I was really amazed. I mean that the the pan, tilt and the zoom were actually plug and play. Yeah, I was using one called osmos or something like that. I can't remember the name of it, but I, you know, I just still, again, I I prefer using the camera in my laptop just because it's easy and it's right in front of me all the time and I don't have to worry about where it's going or if, yeah, you know, if it's aimed at something I don't want it aimed at or whatever, you know, so you can. Actually, just move away from the image if you need to do something you know.

51:08 Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Or I pause it and go do something, you know? But generally I don't do anything. Like I'm sitting in front of the camera talking to a guest and and I just want to be focused on the guest. And I just found this to be the easiest way. But yeah, I mean it. It's cool. And you know, the cool thing is, because of the popularity of podcasting, there's more and more companies who are making like this is a podcast microphone, This is a podcast. Boom. You know, I'm using a podcast piece of software. I'm using a Switcher over here. That's a podcasting Switcher. I'm using a podcasting mixer. And when everything is made for podcasting, it just makes it, you know, that much easier.

51:51 And I don't know, things just seem to work better. I have a hard time getting accustomed to that. Yeah, I figure a mic's a mic, right? I've got a I've got a condenser mic here. Yeah, I've had it for 25 years. Yeah, and it works great. That would. That was way before podcast era. Yeah, yeah. It sort of reminds me of poutine sauce. I don't get where this is. Going I just made a left. Turn here. I like it. I like poutine sauce. There'll be, there'll be a link, believe me, poutine sauce. Here's the thing, they actually sell a thing called poutine sauce, OK. And and I laugh every time.

52:31 I think there's no such thing. It's just gravy. Yeah, that's all it is. It's gravy. You don't need to call it Putin sauce. Yeah, that's funny. No, that's a good point because you can get $20 more by calling a mic a podcast mic. Exactly that. That's my point. I get it. Yeah, I completely get it. Because, I mean that mixer I have, I mean, it works beautifully for podcasting. Yeah. Actually, what is it? It's a recording station. It's a digital audio recording station. Yeah. But you know, I find that when you use podcasting tools, you know, it's like, I've got this little device called a stream deck, and when I'm recording our intros and stuff and I'm trying to get it out here without pulling the cord out of it, Oh. Yeah, yeah, I know that.

53:17 That is amazing. The what a what a beautiful invention. So when I'm recording all of our intros and stuff, I just hit buttons on this thing and it brings up different screens for me with different logos. And it'll record, it'll pause, it'll do all kinds of different things, you know? So play music, you know, it'll do all kinds of things. And then on my mixer I've got all these funny sound effects, You know, where you could do clapping and birds chirping and ridiculous sounds. If you do all that stuff live, right? Yeah. I don't. I edit afterwards, which is Yeah. TD Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I mean, I just like some of those tools and and I've, I've found that well and and Riverside, I will tell you like you know, one of these days I'll share a screen with you and show you how the editing works on Riverside and you'll be blown away.

54:01 You'll be like, OK, that's what I'm doing from now on, 'cause if you're spending an hour editing, I guarantee Riverside will get that down to 10 minutes. It's just so. Easy. That's where the few months makes a difference. Like you're not quite 60 yet. I'm 60, so now you're teaching me all this stuff and I'll you know where podcasting is at right now. And I'm still trying to use the old tools. And I and I kind of don't understand what podcasting equipment necessarily has more than regular recording equipment. And now I'm starting to understand, yeah. Well, I'm happy to talk to anybody. I I'd talk to you about that stuff anytime. It's got nothing to do with age or even the length of time. I'm just nuts.

54:43 I'm nuts when it comes to this stuff. Like I'm always A looking for a better way to do everything, B looking for an easier way to do everything. So I've got this crazy efficiency brain, you know, where it's like there's got to be something that can shave 4 seconds off of this process. And so I'm always looking for new tools and it's crazy. It's something that's probably slowly driving me completely nuts, but I. Can certainly relate to that. Maybe being from Quebec is my mentality is a bit different. Where I'm used to working with no budget. Yeah. So I'm used to trying to make things work with whatever I have handy. Yeah. And. And at a point you you realize that, well, it's not the most efficient way of doing things.

55:29 Yeah, that's true. But I mean, I'm. I'm similar to in that I'm trying to repurpose things or whatever, but it's just when it comes to the things I guess that really matter to me and putting out a good podcast really matters to me. I always want to do the best job I can. Yet until just recently I've done it completely on my own, you know, while running a couple of companies at the same time. And now I have Sarah who's our producer and she does a lot of the background work like you said, you know, going out and booking guests and even dealing dealing with sponsors and and now she's even getting involved in in some of the editing process and hopefully we'll take that all over at some point. So really all I'm going to have to do is show up and and record the podcast, That's the general idea anyways. But yeah, so anyways it's fun.

56:27 I I'm always happy to get on a call with you and and talk through all the geeky stuff though. So 30 years in the business and you mentioned I think that you started in lighting design or no? Well, I'm. I'm trying to figure in my head here how far back I need to go to get this, to get this done. And by the way, I I say this every time I I speak publicly. I'm a French guy and sometimes I start thinking in French and I speak in English and translation doesn't always make it, so that's OK. Yeah, I might say something weird once in a while. It's OK You wouldn't be the first person. I'm pretty sure.

57:10 I've heard a lot of weird things on this podcast. I promise you, Yeah. So actually lighting business, how how that started? Let's go back to the days where I was, I was a computer technician and I was working for John Santi, which this was before the 911 call center. You'd have you had a number for firemen, you had a number for police, and you had another number for an ambulance. So I was working for working for the, the, the ambulance section and I was, you know, working on the computer type. Then we used to pull cables, coax cables so that computers could talk to each other. And I also had a a cabling company back then on on on my own.

57:56 And at a certain point I sort of thought that I can't keep on doing this forever because it was a, it was a union house, it was, you know, it's government based. It was a good job. We had, you know, could pay was OK, but we had a lot of advantages. But everybody was depressed in there because they were always asking for more. And they figured that the only way to get more is to, I don't know, cry, I guess. And I figured, well, you know what? I mean? I don't need to depend on the government to decide what I need to do. I'll just, you know, make a left turn and and do something else.

58:41 So my, a lot of members of my family were financial advisors. So I decided to follow in their footsteps and become a finance financial advisor. So. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. So around 93 I quit my job, started selling mutual funds and doing tax reports and selling some insurance also, and only to find out that that's boring stuff, man. Yeah, sounds boring. And and it just didn't feel right. I was in my 30s and it was like, I'm telling this 75 year old man who's obviously a lot richer than I am, how to manage his money. Yeah, it it felt wrong.

59:22 I had. Yeah, I was. I was very well backed up by companies and and you know, among my family who were, we had some experts in there. My father was a financial planner. He was and he still still is. So sure I had a lot of advice all around me, but it just didn't feel right. Yeah. And in 2000, my mother died of brain cancer at 59. And it kind of, it kind of shook me and it, you know, I figured I thought my mother was going to live forever, right? So when I saw that, I said, OK, OK, is this how life works? All right.

1:00:02 So this stuff can happen to you. All right. It just gave me a different look on life and and kind of the urgency to do what you need to do. Yeah. And just about at that time, my best friend who was in a band with me back in the 80s, he used to imitate Elvis. And yeah, a little anecdote on that. I was, I was, yeah, no, he was. He was singing in English, but nobody could really make out what he was singing. But it didn't matter because where we were playing, nobody spoke English anyway. So yeah, but he had the intonation, he had the look and all that. So it was good. And at some point the band kind of kicked me out because I was, I was just a pain, you know, it's for me.

1:00:50 You had to hit the right chord and, you know, make it really, because music is, music is feeling and there's a reason why a specific chord is there. It makes you, it makes you feel something. And they were just doing it straight, you know? So you're a. Perfectionist. Yeah sort of. So they got tired of me. They kicked me out and then they they they told the the singer that well let's just tell him we're quitting we're we're stopping the band and once he's out we'll just continue And he said yeah fine no problem. So when they, when they kicked me out, he, he he left the band too. And we became best friends and we're like, we've been we've been together for 40 years.

1:01:32 And so yeah, and he and he married my wife's best friend. So the four of us have been together for 40 years. That's why we literally have dinner every night. Yeah. I love seven days a week together. That's cool. Cool. But anyway, weird. Yeah, it is. It is. It's it's a special stuff. Someday I'll have to write a book on that because we've been so we've been so much so. Anyway, someday he he walks into my office and he, he was head of the computer department at an engineering firm in Montreal. And I had my, my, my financial business. And he comes walking in my into my office and he says, oh, I just got a a call from an old friend of mine in Ontario and he says he'd like us to organize a show like we used to do back in the day. You know, I said you crazy, we don't have time for this. I got my business, you got yours. I mean he.

1:02:28 And anyway, whatever. A couple weeks later we were on the road with this old van and we were going to do the show with a bunch of talent that we had gathered all around us. Yeah. So within that talent that we had with us were five little girls who were 10 years old and they would just eat the stage. They, you know, we we just, we were just amazed. We said, geez, they they get a hell of a show, you know? Yeah, so. What did they do, though? They were singers or dancers? Or they. Were just dancing and singing. But actually lip sync performed more than anything else. Yeah to the Backstreet Boys and whatever was going on at the time. And my friend said hey, when we came back from that show we we were that's funny because we were driving back and we figured oh we're we're too old for this.

1:03:19 We're never doing this again. And a couple weeks later he had his his music and dance school. He opened up that and yeah, and and anyway those those little girls, he he said, why don't we give him a chance, Why don't we do something, you know do some shopping center shelves or something like that. And I say, yeah, sure, why not. So I put together some a lighting kit with whatever I found in scrap yards and I built my first lighting console out of household simmers. Wow. Yeah. And then later. We had and what year? This is in the 90s. That was in 97. That was just before the ice storm actually.

1:04:00 And that ice storm kind of kind of played in favor for us because a lot of people had TV antennas and they all broke with with the ice. So we went around asking people, you want to get rid of your your antenna, we'll take it down for you. And we've gathered them up and we hired a guy that that put a decor together and we actually created a monster. Those little girls went on to becoming a a local group called the Baby Spice. So they were actually Spice Girls impersonators, huh? At first just lip synching and then after that starting to record. We had a couple of OK singers in there and then then good singers and they kept us on tour for six years. Jesus. 650 shows.

1:04:52 And did, did you guys, did you like own a piece of them or something like did you have them signed to some sort of an agreement or were you? Just they had they they had a contract with the producer and and we were just the crazy guys in the in the back making all this happen. Yeah, we we just decided, hey, we're going to do shows like if it was, I don't know, share. Yeah, interesting. So. We're so I I learned all about lighting at that time. But what do you? Say that you were building a console because, like, if you told me it was the 70s, OK, that makes perfect sense. But in the 90s, like 97, I think the hog was already out, wasn't it? Yeah, the hog too come out in like 94. It started off with just simple dimmers and and lights and at a certain point the producer who used to buy you know bankruptcies and stuff like that. Yeah, at some point delivered a bunch of cases at the local where we were.

1:05:52 And I opened up those cases and I find track spots, tie in track spots and some kind of console I never could understand. I don't even know what it wasn't up to this day but I did get my hands on on an American DJ thing and and I put something together that that's how I started playing with moving lights. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And it it just grew. And then I did some studio work. I wrote a lot of songs for the girls and all that. And so we did, you know, quite a bit of of things over the years. And when the tour ended, at some point where it was just, you know, it just didn't happen anymore and we were tired of being poor.

1:06:38 I'll be honest with you, that's that was pretty much the the day that I decided to stop doing music and stop doing all that because I just figured, hey, why don't I start making a decent living here? Because. Because we were just living off our passion. Yeah, I understand. My first thing I did when when the the tours ended, I knocked on the door of close to focus and I said, well, I went to solo tech too. I said, hey, I'm, I'm free. That was, that was solo tech when it was Denis La Francois, right? Yeah, like this is exactly before the current version of solo tech. Yeah, but I just went to to the lighting department and said, well, OK, I just finished a tour and I'm sort of available and they said, well, send us your your resume. I said, OK, that means you don't need me. So I moved on to Cloda.

1:07:23 I knocked on the door and I said, hey, I'm available and they said, OK, go go see the shop manager. And he had me soldering cables at the back of the shop for 9 bucks an hour and I took it. I actually took it. I said hey, OK you you want to give me a chance? All right. I'll take it. Yeah. Two weeks later, I was out on the road as Head Electric. Yeah, so. Well, I mean, who were you to say no to something like that because you wanted to step into a new industry? You've got no, you know, you've got no background or history or experience or credentials. Yeah. So they're taking a chance on you. They're putting you at the bottom of the totem pole. And I know a lot of guys who did that exact same thing that you did but worked for free, you know, for three months, six months, whatever, You know, hey, we'll give you concert tickets or we'll give you a lunch every day or something, you know.

1:08:16 So how was So this? I'm at Harry Cloda, probably 929192, which was my sort of early days with Martin, while Martin's distributor Trackman at the time. And I did a bunch of business with Harry. I I like Harry. He's a colorful guy. Colorful guy. Indeed, I got to get him on my podcast. Yeah, I remember. I remember some really funny evenings with Harry, you know, or celebrations, let's call them. With Harry. We had a lot of fun. I haven't talked to him in a long time. I got to reach out to Harry one of these.

1:08:57 Days. Yeah. I talked to his son. Corey now quite regularly. Does Harry still work? No, he's he sold well, he sold the building a few years ago, OK? And then he downsized. And now I know that all audio, video and lighting were sold to LSM, OK? And I think, well, there's still the the inflatable games. Right. He did really well in that business. Yeah, that Danny's a carry on this, this sort of in charge of. I don't know up to this day if Harry's still involved or if Danny owns everything or not exactly sure. Interesting.

1:09:37 I know that the the games are still happening. I'm not exactly sure if Harry's. I know he was he was sick at a certain time. He. Was. Oh no. Had an operation all that, but apparently he's he's OK now. Yeah, yeah, he was a good guy. I had a lot of fun with Harry. It was always interesting. It was never boring. Oh, for sure. Never boring. Well, and your boss as well. I've known him a long time. Yeah, I haven't, I I I am. I met Steve, actually, when he hired me for the first. Really. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. I've known him. I'd lived in Canada. I think I knew him probably in the 80s. You know, I've known him a long, long time, but another good guy, really smart guy, you know, he's done a lot of really bright things and and so anyways, let let's get back to your story, 'cause we'll get to AVL, but so you spent a few years at Cloda. Well, yeah, actually, I was at Cloda for a while and I was just freelancing and after a while, then I started doing a tour. So I did a lot of, I did a lot of comedy. I also did dance.

1:10:51 I did music, films, all sorts of things. I've yeah, been touring all over the place and designing lights, Yeah. And yeah, after. Why comedy? I was lazy. Yeah, comedy's cool because it's very simple. You get to the venue at 3:00 PM. At 4:00 PM you're already drinking beer and I have I have a funny anecdote on that. I was doing a a show and saying also to show you which is basically half an hour from my house. And so we go, we back up the truck and we we we load in, start putting up the decor and all that. So at you know 4:00 PM we're done. So we're at the restaurant drinking beer eating. And I was I was a heavy guy I was like 280 lbs.

1:11:33 Back then and and so we get to the venue around 6630 and I got a call from the the comedian's girlfriend said he's sick. He's got gastro. He just cannot leave his room. We're going to have to cancel the show. And this was a cabaret kind of venue, so people were starting to arrive. And I said, oh, that's not good. And and what's worse is that I'm in no shape to to to dismantle. Right now I'm in. I'm in shape to sit down and do this show and sleep through the show. And I used to do that regularly. I used to fall dead asleep during the show. And whenever there was a queue coming up for some reason, I would just, well open my eyes, hit the button and then go back to sleep.

1:12:23 That's hilarious. That's hilarious. So when you're a lazy guy, that's the kind of show you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, comedy's big in Montreal too, right? So I'm I'm guessing there was a lot of it available. And and the other thing is there's a there's a comedy school because I set out the W MO and and they put out dozens of comedians every year so and I actually worked for them for a few years. I did their the the when when the the students finish their finish their their their courses at the end they do some kind of a tour throughout Quebec and sometimes New Brunswick and that's that's part of their course.

1:13:04 So I was, I was a lighting designer on that for a couple of years. So I kind of met, you know, some, some comedians that are very famous today. I saw them. Yeah, I saw them at their very beginning. Well, I know I've been in Montreal in the summer when the the comedy festival's there and you know, just super fun. Such a great place to be, you know? I know in the business it's a kind of a pain cuz it's so crazy in the summer in Montreal, but but I thought that was so cool. Like what a cool city to be in in the summer when that's going on, you know? Yeah, but for sure. And what's that show that was out Of Montreal, too? Laugh. Something. Laugh.

1:13:45 Just for laughs. Just for laughs, yeah, that was a pretty big deal for a long time. I don't know if it still is, but. Well, it's there was a problem with that. At some point, just for laughs, the owner got. Caught up, it was no longer funny. Yeah, exactly. It was no longer funny. He got caught up in, you know, sexual abuse stuff, accusations and stuff like. That so it was just from a little bit more than laughs, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But just for laughs and afterwards, Yeah, so there's gravy. And now there's a couple of other organizations. But yeah, comedy is very still very, very strong. I mean, a good comedian will will tour for years and years.

1:14:30 It's it's very easy to sell a comedy show in in the back, whereas music shows are having a hard time. Really. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. So if you're if you're a well known band and you start touring, you might tour for a few months. Whereas the the better comedians, the ones that have a lot of, you know, a lot of followings, they'll tour for years and years. Wow. I I didn't know that there was a problem with music there. Why is that? I don't know. I don't know. There's just a lot of, a lot of demand for for, for laughter. I guess people forget about.

1:15:12 Life not a bad thing and. This is, this is an old phenomenon. It was like that back in the the 30s. The 40s. People were were living miserable lives. There were no jobs, yeah, but they would spend like the $0.05 to go to the theater and watch people make them live. Or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's that's interesting, 'cause, you know, music, live music is selling so well everywhere right now. Like, it's just, it's insane what's going on right now. I love it. I mean, it's amazing for the industry and stuff, but I'm just blown away by the appetite for live music. It's it's wild, you know, yet. Like, I think, you know, it's funny, 'cause I think in Canada, a lot of cities in Canada, Calgary included, have better live music scenes than a lot of the bigger cities in the US, which is kind of weird. Like, you know, here, if I want to go out on a Wednesday night and see a band at a local club or whatever, it's not that easy, you know?

1:16:13 It's just really not that. Yeah, I could go to a venue and see, you know, a big band and pay $500.00 for tickets or whatever. But I'm talking about having a couple beers, seeing a really good band in a bar, you know, like you used to do all the time when I was playing in bars when I was young. It just doesn't exist as much here, you know? It's kind of a dead thing right now. Whereas live music in general is huge, massive. Yeah, yeah. So one of the things I think is really cool about your current employer, AVL Music Media Group, sorry. And is is basically the way that you guys work with the brands where you're not, it's not the traditional distributor manufacturer model where you know you're responsible where you pay you know 40% less than the selling price or whatever.

1:17:09 You make a a big profit margin and you're responsible basically for everything from your incoming dock to the outgoing dock and to taking care of the customer and all of those things. Now instead you act almost more like a fulfilment center and support center, but you charge a a much smaller profit on it. And I think in a sense it's a win win because the manufacturer maintains control of branding, because from what I understand, and you can tell me when and if I'm wrong on this. But if if you're dealing with Zoom, for example, the invoice will come from Zoom, it won't come from AVL, you're dealing you're basically buying directly from Zoom's Canadian office, even though it's not technically from Zoom's Canadian office, it's from AVL.

1:18:01 Is that all correct so far? That is correct for that particular brand. Yeah, so. So maybe I'll shut up and you can explain to me the the. Differences explain up to a certain point, yeah, here's the thing. I'm a product guy. Yeah. So I talk about products and I try to to to to find the proper, the proper thing for what you need to do. And I'm, I'm more on the technical side. So I'm, I'm technical advisory, I will, I will help the salesman, you know finalize the sale because I I'm able to understand the client's needs and find the proper product and if so make a design.

1:18:46 I've done that many times. Whereas as soon as we start talking about money, profit margins and who charges what, I back away. Yeah, I I, because my world, I'm talking with the mostly with the end user. I see. I'm talking with the people who are actually going to work with the gear. So we're having a technical conversation and we're just making it practical. We're just making it work, yeah. You're more interested in the application and the technology and and. Yeah, if I if I was really interested in interested in all that administration stuff, I'd I'd still be a financial advisor.

1:19:27 Yeah, yeah, so. At some point I I sort of backed away from that and I said hey let's let's just concentrate on on what I love to do. Not that I don't know how much it cost. I I do OK And people ask me how how much is this? I'll I'll tell a white lie and say I don't know. You'll have to ask your salesman for a quote. That's not true. I I do know what the price of stuff is. But The thing is, I I don't wanna have that conversation. I wanna yeah, I wanna stay technical. Plus sometimes it's better anyways, you know, like I know that I've been in companies where they did that, where they separated sort of that technical slash application slash spec side of the business with the actual sales and and money side of the business. And sometimes that's really important because there might be a strategy at play with the sales management or sales person.

1:20:21 And so, you know, price is is maybe a little more complicated than that, you know. And and also I've found sometimes technicians getting involved in the pricing part of the the deal or the the commerce side of the deal or whatever, sometimes can get a little messy, 'cause they don't know that there's some politics involved where we can't sell direct to this guy because of this guy over here. But we need to do this little, you know, roundabout deal to make sure that he's taken care of and doesn't feel slighted. And so, yeah, so sometimes you're stepping into a mud puddle and you don't really see it, you know. So that makes a lot of sense. But you know again I I like the way that you guys have have created that business there.

1:21:06 Like when, when when Steve told me about it, I was like, that's really interesting. Like why don't more companies do that? Because that seems like the future to me where you sort of decentralize or separate those components of, you know, oh, do you want us to carry inventory, you inventory for you, it's going to cost this much. Do you want us to manage just the sales and marketing side of it? It's going to cost this much. Are you going to handle your own marketing? OK, now it only costs this much. So you know, it makes a lot of sense, like especially with the whole Amazon fulfillment thing and stuff. Like it seems like more and more businesses are moving that direction. Oh yeah. For sure.

1:21:48 Well, The thing is it's, it's, it's an adaptation depending on how the manufacturer sees it and and what the market needs, Yeah, but yeah, for sure different products are are managed differently. Yeah, depending on like that, like I said all all of that. But in the end, we're trying to be there for for whoever needs it, yeah, And and trying to offer turnkey, yeah solution. What lighting products do you guys offer? OK. Well, we have several lighting lines our, our, what should I say, consumer level line is Blizzard.

1:22:30 OK. So Blizzard is it's Chinese products, American owned company. Yeah, so I know I'm very. From Blizzard, Yeah, OK so so they've they've got a pretty good offering and actually Blizzard kind of remind me of Hyundai because in the beginning it was like OK, so it's it's it's affordable consumer level products and at a certain point they started developing better products, they started going towards more high end stuff. Now they're offering really, really cool products, ETL without up to par. I mean if you're, if you're looking at competitor products, you're not afraid to go to a shootout or something, yeah. You know, it's interesting because, like, you definitely don't have to make excuses anymore for products like that. Like I, you know, I remember back in the day as we old people say you know if it wasn't European or American made it was gonna be frowned upon.

1:23:35 And especially Chinese products and it's Chinese and they had a real stigma attached to them where they really couldn't get over the DJ hurdle where DJ lights. You can't get past DJ lights with this product. And I think, I don't think I know that companies like Elation and Chauvet have managed to really crush those barriers down. And now you're seeing like in the intro, I read the equipment list from the Eurovision last week and there was a lot of Chauvet stuff on it. Yeah, you know and and by the way, you know, there's a lot of other Verilite is made in China now.

1:24:17 You know a lot of products that people that high end is made in China now. Like a lot of products people think are American companies are, like you said, they're maybe American owned, sometimes American engineered and designed, but made in China. So I had a business partner who used to always say there's there's a big difference between made in China and Chinese made. And so, you know, and I again, I was around in the early days when Chinese moving lights really were garbage, you know, because they could, they could copy the hardware, but they could never really copy the software. They had a hard time reverse engineering software. So it took a long time for them to get the movement smooth. Instead of going like this and and getting it to go back to the same spot every time and stuff, you know, the little simple things they, they really struggled with today. Everything is amazing.

1:25:13 Everything's good. Yeah, whether you're talking about a $10,000 Clay Paki fixture or a $2000 Blizzard or or American DJ fixture, everything's good. It really is. Exactly. So yeah, what else do you have other than Blizzard? The the other we well, we we used to have Aval lights. OK. Yeah, right, of course. And then Roby. Yeah. And I have to mention it because when I when when AVL hired me, I was actually Head of Lighting department at Coda, Yeah. And I was heading for retirement. Yeah. So I yeah, I was going to go do conferences and write books and talk to people and do other stuff. And I was down to four days a week and I was training this my my assistant.

1:26:01 And I was heading for three days a week. And then I got the call and and they say, yeah, AVL Media Group, I said OK, distributor OK was absolutely not familiar with the distributor world. And they said, yeah, we need a product specialist because we have GLP and they were working on some other brands and and that they needed somebody in house that knew what that stuff was. Yeah. And I said Oh well that's interesting. I had, I didn't know that there was a you know a next level because the only next level that I could think of was designing you know, sets and and doing technical drawing and stuff like that, which I wasn't really interested in. So I figured hey this is, this is interesting, so I actually, I actually got hired on the fact that they had GLP. So why?

1:26:57 Why is that? Well, because I I'm, I'm guessing it's because if if GLP is going to deal with the distributor, there has to be an expert. Oh, I see. Yeah, they needed to step up their game a little bit. Exactly. There has to be somebody in there who knows what this stuff is and who can answer questions and get things working and all that. Yeah, so and and so I was the guy and I've had. Yeah, sure, I'll. I'll do that. No problem. My first mandate was actually to write a list of stuff I wanted to play with and put together a light shovel. Yeah, well, this is cool. So anyway, I did that. Yeah. Fun work for sure. So on top of GLP, they told me we're working on getting a console line. So I kind of backed away for a second and I said, which one? And they said EVO lights.

1:27:45 Oh yeah, OK. I know EVO lights. That's cool. Sure. So that actually happened. And a couple months later, I was in London getting trained on all the all all, all their their offerings. So it's and it's been 7 years of, you know investing myself with Aval Lights. So it was it was kind of a a hard news because when when Roby bought Aval Lights, I I know that they in Europe, they they took over distribution because that was that's their model of business. And then it happened in the States. So I figured, OK, just a question of time before it happens in Canada.

1:28:26 Unless they simply don't care about Canada and it's just like not enough business. But sure enough, it happened. So I note to myself, do not get attached to a product. Yeah, well, it's. It does suck though because like like you said you, you invested time because yeah, they didn't always have the D9 or the Tiger or the No exactly. They didn't always have those great products and and so now they've got the D9 and you're like OK, finally something really exciting that we can get in, you know wrap our heads around and now you lose it, you know. Yeah, but then again, I mean, I'm still very fond of the of the product. I still use it every day.

1:29:12 And it's for me I've, I've always preached that Avo Lights was the best lighting console in the world. Prove me wrong. Not that I'm the Spice Hog or MA or or the other brands out there. I mean, I use them all. I know them all and they're all very good. I've always said the best console in the world is actually the one you know. Well, and so here's the difference between you and I, being you a technical guy, me, a commercial guy. To me, the best console in the world is the one that everyone wants. So you know that's that's the best console. And right now, that's the MA 3, and #2 is the MA 2. Yeah.

1:29:54 So. And now I'm not saying it's technically the best. I'm not saying if I was a lighting programmer, it's the one that I'd want to use. I'm just saying that's the one that everybody wants to buy. So if I was going to fill a warehouse full of consoles, that'd be the one. Yeah, well, there's a logic to it too. It it just, when MA came up with the MA one, it was revolutionary. It was nothing like. Yeah. And and then people started adopting it. It became the industry standard because it could do things that nothing else could do. And then people got used to it and then they put out the MA 2, which was continuity. That was fine. And then sometime after that, Avolites came up with something that kind of, yeah, that kind of lived up to it up to a certain point, but for half the price.

1:30:46 So all that was interesting and and in the meantime, MA put out the MA 3. But then Avo came up with the Diamond 9, and that Diamond 9 is up to par as far as I'm concerned. Problem is, MA is well established and all I can understand. All of my my friends that are still out there programming lighting desks, they've been programming MAS for years. They're kind of in their slippers, right? Yeah. It's, it's a comfortable feeling knowing your instrument. So you're not going to make a move just because there's another product out there that does just as good, right? Yeah.

1:31:28 Well, I will tell you though like during COVID, so there was a perfect storm created and a perfect opportunity for Avo. And unfortunately AVO, it wasn't a big enough company in a sense to to pounce on that opportunity. And so, you know, the MA Three came out and it had a lot of problems initially. Well, it was an empty shell. Yeah. It did the same thing with the MA two. They put out the hardware and then they developed the software. So it had quite a few problems when it came out and then COVID happened, so they didn't even really get a chance to get people to use it and to get people to like it.

1:32:12 And it was just dumped, you know? It was like, we hate this thing. I give me back the MA twos and you know, I own a used equipment business. I don't know if you know that, but I own Gearsource and. I didn't. I wasn't. I wasn't aware. Yeah, so Gearsource on MA2 consoles, we watched them go from, let's say early 2020. They were around $12,000 US. We saw them go up to about $30,000 over the next couple of years as people did not want MA threes and they really wanted MA twos. Now we've seen the price really start dropping on MA twos because MA threes are more widely available and also the software is pretty rigid and and sturdy now and and it's much more reliable and people like it again and so, but I think in that time in that sort of 2020 to 22 or yeah, probably 2020 to 22, I think AVO had a really cool opportunity to jump in there and fill a void. And I There's one thing I can say for AVO Lights, though. When they put out a console, it's ready, It's roadworthy. It it's complete, it works, it's stable. And another thing I really appreciate is that they don't rewrite the software from one generation to another. It just evolves.

1:33:39 So if you learned Avo Lights 10 years ago, you can grab AD 9 and do whatever you know how to do and it still works. It's gonna make sense. It's. Just more. There's more ways of doing things, there's more features that have been added that you might wanna learn, but basics are still there. And it looks cool. Yeah, well, it's a cool looking console. It's a really cool looking desk if if you're bored one of these days. I I just had Steve Warren, you know Steve, right? Yeah, from Avo. Yeah, I just had him on the podcast a couple weeks ago. He's in Portugal ripping apart some old ancient ruins and turning them into houses. So he bought some land in in Portugal and it's got some houses on the land that's that's literally ruins.

1:34:26 It's like 200 year old houses that have no roofs and stuff and he's building them into homes and he's going to live there. Him and his wife are going to live there. So and they're going to have like a drop in Community Center kind of thing and a yoga center and all this stuff. Like he's got these these visions for the place. But he's such a great guy. He's one of my favorite people. Just such a spirit about him, you know. I'll definitely give that a listen. Yeah, yeah, it's fun. It's fun. So anything else? Any other lighting products? Do you still do GLP? Yes, we still do GLP. It's. An exciting time for GLP. You got some? Pretty cool stuff coming out.

1:35:07 I, I I like the the mentality of GLPI. Don't know up to what point we can use swear words on this. You can use any word you want. Oh, that's good. I have that mentality. Too good. Their slogan is We give a fuck. Yeah, yeah. Why? You really do. You can really do. And I'm having an an anecdote on that too. At one point we were setting up the Lady Gaga tour, which was which was started off in Vancouver and Solo tech got the the contract to do the tour, the Joanne tour. So we were setting up like a wall of 256 JDC ones and interlaced with bar 20s.

1:35:48 And so I went over there and helped set it up and at the same time get some training from Carl Wake, who's the head engineer. There. Yeah, I know, Carl. And at some point, they had a problem with the JDC once 'cause it was first generation, right? Yeah, they were the first to be delivered and there there was a humidity getting into the into the circuit boards and they were starting to lose pixels. So at some point they they figured out the problem. So when the tour landed in LA, there's a team of GLP people that just went to the venue and they took down the 256 fixtures and put up wow damn did that. They they they did the whole thing. They did the the, the, the tear down and the and the install of the new fixtures and they said here you wow, you're good to go. Now when they say we give a fuck, yeah. Well, and that's a small company, that's not Roby, you know what I mean?

1:36:48 Or Mark exactly like that's, that's a little German company doing that kind of service. That's impressive. That's really. Lately, I I asked. Mark Ravenhill. I said. Well, there's a Chauvet fixture that's pretty close to the JDC one. Yeah. And I said, so how, how do you deal with that? I mean, how, how does it compare? And he says, oh, it's probably just as good. Yeah, it doesn't really matter because we're on to the next thing. Yeah, it's. True. Yeah, so that's it's another mentality. They're actually creating lights that the the designers want. Yeah, they want the next thing. Go figure, right? Like, yeah, they want what people want for make things people want and they'll spec it and they'll buy it and wow, what a concept.

1:37:32 So it's a designer's thing. Yeah, yeah, it always has to. I mean, when I worked at Martin in the 90s, if you build stuff that designers want, companies are going to have to buy it at some point, right? Exactly. And then take care of the company too. Like, that's the other thing. Like if you, well, yeah, if you just force it on designers and the company has to buy it and you don't take care of them and and you have service nightmares and all kinds of things like that, that's not going to go very well. Either That's something you have to give GLP. That's top notch service. Yeah, whatever you need. You need parts, you need advice. Actually, Carl flew down from LA to Montreal to train the Circus Sade folks. Because they were going on tour with the GLP fixtures. Yeah.

1:38:16 And they wanted to be able to repair them on the spot rather than send them back to to AVL, which was logical because, yeah, you know, all over the world. Oh, wow. We just trained their their own technicians, yeah. Well, it's an exciting time, like I said, for that company right now, because you know JDC 2 and all the other new stuff that they've got coming out. You know Annalise, I, I used to work with Annalise at Martin for a number of years. She was our trade show person and when I ran much of Martin in the 90s and became very good friends, I really like Annalise. And she does a great job over there. Yeah, she does a good job there. She's awesome.

1:38:58 So we have that we have, we have another company which do theatrical, high end theatrical lights which is spotlight. OK. So this is out of Milan, Italy and they they came up with something it's, it's, it's how can I say the relation with that company is this is is very particular because everything is made in house, it's all 100% made in Italy and they they have their own factory. So whatever you need, if, if you need something customized or or whatever or if you need a part, I mean they started recently getting rid of the parts they made for they they had for fixtures they made 50 years ago. Yeah, so.

1:39:46 That's law. That's law in Italy. So, you know, I have a lot of experience there because of Komar, the company that I was a part owner in purchased Komar in 2000. No. Was it 2099 maybe And. Just learning some of their laws and some of the ways they do things, but that that mentality of hey, you want one of the colors changed by you know this much or whatever we can do that. You know they they were very much into customizing things. There's a downside to that. You know you end up with fixtures that don't match other people's fixtures at the end of the day because you had some small adjustment in color or in this or in that or.

1:40:29 Whatever. Yeah, well, those are specific adjustments, yeah. Whereas I've we've been through that with Spotlight where ESPN wanted a specific for now 50 Watt for now it was available in Cool White, Warm White and they wanted RGB White. So they actually developed it for them. Wow. And and that worked out really well. But that's that's a fixture so the fixture itself is you know it's it's it's a new thing and it's well it was a new thing back then back then but it's a fixture. It's not an an original fixture that's been modified But I I I am going through that right now with with Disney who wanted to to look at a a fanless Cyclike. Yeah.

1:41:19 And the the Cyclike from from Spotlight was very appealing for them, but it had fans and they have a policy of no mechanical, no, no mechanics in in the in the equipment, just a question of maintenance. OK. So, so yeah, actually, you Spotlight. Turn around so you have heat problems, Yeah, yeah. And then And then you got a whole different maintenance issue. Exactly. It's it's always a trade off, right? Yeah, we can get rid of the fans no problem. You you think they're high maintenance? Yeah, just wait until you take the fan away. Yeah, well they did it. So apparently they found a way to do it. Yeah. But then again, it's it all depends on the environment you're working in. What?

1:42:01 It's the main guy from CBC. What's his name? Is it still the same guy that I knew for like 25 years? I can't remember his name anymore. Hold on a second. The main like designer specifier for all the CBC stuff. Oh, I'm getting old, man. I can't remember his name either. SO2 old guys trying to remember a guy's name that we haven't talked to in a couple of years. I used to see him at every trade show and he'd always come up to me and say my Slotkin Plotkin, I can't remember. I mean, I could probably look it up in my own system and tell you who it was, but it doesn't matter. I was just wondering if it was somebody that you knew. Yeah, yeah, I think it's Plotkin the, the, the last name. It doesn't ring a bell.

1:42:46 That's not who I'm thinking of anyways. But I mean, probably the last time I did any business with him was, I don't know, 15 years ago or something. So it's probably the person's retired by now who I was talking to. But he was there forever. I mean, I knew him for years and I'd see him at every trade show and he'd, he'd always come up with some wild idea for a a change to a fixture or a new fixture or whatever. And, you know, if if I was with Calmar at the time and Bruno from Calmar was there, you know, typical Italian factory owner and and very smart, sort of genius thinker, he would say, yes, we'll build it immediately, you know, and and he'd go back to the factory, stop everything and create his fixture for the guy at CBC. Well, I mean, not thinking it had to have CSA approval. It had to have this, it had to be ready for this. You had to produce 100 of them.

1:43:40 They all needed to be the same. Like it's a little more complicated than going back to the factory and building 1, you know? Oh yeah, for sure. Funny stuff, I I love Italian people like, I love, I love their passion towards creating beautiful products and quality and all of those things. At the end of the day, like, I mean it's I've always looked at it as sort of like a Ferrari esque sort of thing. Like, you know, you might have to carry a few extra tools in your back pocket than if you were to use, you know, either a Chinese manufactured or American manufactured product. But it's going to have a lot of horsepower, and it'll be fun as hell to drive, you know, Oh.

1:44:23 Yeah. Well, I can tell you the experience I have with Italian fixtures, it's just the, the, the ease of maintenance really. Yes. And that's that's well we were talking about PTZ cameras earlier and the and the presentation I made presentation was on spotlight fixtures and I actually opened up a fixture right, live, right, right during the presentation and two screws and the power supply got in your hands. That's the kind of thing I've seen, You know, stuff happens, right? I mean we sold two fall spots to an Academy in Culver IN and when they got there for some reason one of the two fall spots wasn't working.

1:45:03 Yeah. So it's this is spotlight, this is unacceptable. So I went up to to to my service area and I asked the guys, well what do you know about these spotlights and can you tell them do you have an idea why one of them is not working? And they said yeah, during CSA they put the the light back together a bit quickly and they broke a cable. So they sort of fixed it really quickly and didn't have time to put it on the the test bench because it had to ship right away. OK, I get it. I get it. OK. So we know that this is the part that's that's failing. Oh, so you're doing the field CSA stuff, the stuff where they come out to your shop and do the CSA? Yeah, exactly. I remember having to do. That stuff with your for certain products, we still have to do that.

1:45:46 Yeah. And anyway, I figured, OK, so I just pulled the part from one of our spotlights jumped on a plane. I went to see Steve, Steve Costers and I said, Steve, we have this problem. This problem. And I have the solution. Yeah, says. Yeah, go go fix it. So. Next morning I knocked called the door and the and, and the client was a very, very nice lady. She opens up the door and was so surprised to see me there. Said, weren't you in Montreal yesterday? I said yeah, but you have a broken spot, a follow spot, and that's unacceptable. So I walk in there 20 minutes later, didn't even take the spot off the stand. 20 minutes later it was up and running. Oh, that's cool. And that's that's memorable stuff though, that that keeps clients for you.

1:46:26 You know what I mean? Like that those kind of stories are the one about GLP in LA taking all the fixtures down or whatever like that. Those those stories are the ones that you remember. And it's funny because a few weeks ago I had somebody on who was involved in a Super Bowl halftime show that I was involved in with Martin. And all he could remember is Martin flew in all these engineers and texts and stuff from Denmark directly to to look at some of the problems or concerns that we had in dealing with these lights. And it was the first show of that size for Martin. So they were very enthusiastically there to support their product and that kind of stuff is necessary. So I I wanna, I know that not very many people in our industry and you know, there's one in particular, Richard Kadena, but not very many people have have self published books and and written books.

1:47:21 And the interesting thing about you, you have a couple of books but neither one is about the industry, neither one is about lighting. Yeah. And so, so tell me a little bit about that. Like how were you always a writer? Did you just suddenly become one? How did that happen? Well, I've, I've, I've been, I've, I've pretty much always written, but I've never done anything with it. And I do have a book about the industry that I've been working on for about, I don't know, seven years, eight years, something like that. And I'll probably never finish it. I don't know. Yeah, we'll see how that turns out. The book is it. It's strange. Like I said, I was a heavy person. I was very, very out of shape and and overweight. And at a certain point I I had to, I had to make some decisions because I was like at 40.

1:48:15 I was lazy. I was just gigging whatever. I felt like gigging and. Sleeping at the console. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Sleeping at the. Console talked about. That long rides, lots of restaurants and didn't really matter. I was, I was living in AII had a house. It was like, you know, those those mobile houses, yeah, it was a nice one, but it was, it was still a mobile house, so very, very inexpensive. So my cost of living was really low. So I, you know, it was always just really, really chill and and at a certain point I know my my wife, after all these years of all craziness that's been going on, she was still around and I figured, well, if she's still around then maybe I should do something for her.

1:49:01 So I decided to buy a good piece of land and and build a house for her decent house and next to a river and all that. So, but that also implied that I needed to make to earn a decent living. I I had to make real money and I also had to have enough energy to go through all that. Because, you know, this is there's a lot of work to be done when you're when you're building a house. Yeah, of course. So that kind of woke me up. And I I I I figured, you know, this lifelong problem I've been having of being overweight and I had to deal with it and I had to find a solution. So I sort of invented a solution that worked. Interesting.

1:49:48 Yeah, And once I had done that, then I figured, oh, maybe other people would like to know what I've been through. Because I've. I've learned a lot in the past by reading books. Books by experts. Fine. But I love to read books by people like me who were nobodies and were able to do, you know, something special, something that a lot of people aren't able to do with nothing. You know, they just out of nowhere. Just just an example. You take Anthony Robbins, who didn't even have a college degree and was able to, you know, it was probably one of the most influential people in the world right now.

1:50:29 So I figured, yes, if nobody like me can achieve something like that, even though it's, you know, it's nothing great, but it's it didn't did make a difference in my life. I figured, why don't I just share that? So round numbers What? What was the weight loss? How? How much weight? Figure about 80 lbs. Wow. Yeah, that's that's significant. No, Some people lose a lot more weight than that, but it was the, I think. I think it was the method that I developed that really worked. Give me the give me the 10,000 foot view. Yeah, absolutely. I'll do that. It's very simple. I it it. I figured if I was going to make a change, it would have to be for it would have to be permanent.

1:51:13 Yeah, I was not going to, because if you make it a temporary effort at some point, it's like pulling on an elastic. If you pull hard enough, it'll snap back in your face at some point. So that's what dieting is all about as. Far as I'm concerned. Yeah. So I figured if I'm going to make a change, I'm going to make a small change, but I'm going to make it for life. So I cut butter. That's how it started, yeah. And then cascaded onto more stuff. Started an exercise routine that was only 10 minutes a day, but every day, Yeah, And. And that's it. That's how it started, yeah. And after you know what's? Interesting about that though, like a lot of the longevity doctors and stuff now, grass fed butter is actually good for you. It's one of the healthy fats, butter and and avocado, which they were both always sort of dragged through the dirt as being their fats.

1:52:02 You can't have those, those are fats. But now scientists have finally figured out that healthy fats are good, and grass fed butter and avocado are very healthy fats. So yeah, it was. It wasn't the ingredient as much as the the method. Well, what were you putting the butter on too? Well, probably just. To give you an. Example, when you finish your gig at midnight one in the morning, you get it. You get home at 2:00 AM, Didn't really have time to eat or whatever. So if it's pop, pop two pieces of bread in the toaster, then pull out the peanut butter, the butter, the jam, whatever else is lying around in the kitchen. And then the toast come out.

1:52:42 And then you put butter, peanut butter, and jam. And while you're eating those, you're sticking two other pieces of bread in the toaster. And while they're while they're toasting, you're still hungry. So you pull out the cookie bag, start eating cookies, and then bring out the toast and then put butter, peanut butter, jam and why not crumbled cookies on top of that. Yeah. Then while I'm eating those, I pop two more in the toaster. So and and then I pull and then I want to make it more original. So I pull out 22 slices of cheese and put that on top of the whole worst. I'm not kidding. I was. Really a problem? Yeah, but it's funny because you said butter and what are they in Atomic Habits? I forget what he calls that. Like not the anchor or the magnet or something, but it's like the thing that you attribute it all to is the butter. But the butter really wasn't the problem. No, it was the sort of tidal wave of junk that that created exactly bread and cookies and all of the other. Stuff, right?

1:53:38 Yeah. I had a magical recipe. I'd Yeah, peanut butter between my cookies because they would stick together. I could carry more from the kitchen to the living room. Oh my. God, you were bad, man. Bad. You were bad. I can't. Believe I'm still healthy. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what? You stopped in time like you. That's the problem. You know, friends of ours, I'm sure you have similar problems who are either dying or dead or very sick. You know they didn't stop in time, You know, because all of this stuff is reversible, in a sense, you know, Certainly cancer's a tough one, but all of most of this stuff is reversible.

1:54:19 Yeah, you just have to stop earlier before. True. Me too. Me too, you know. Me too. And and you know I'm I'm still dealing with sort of some residual effects you know that I I have to pay attention to specific to my heart and but it's for things that I did bad in in you know 30 years ago. It's not for stuff that I'm doing right now because I live a pretty healthy life now. So and the other book was what the other book was. Well the other book was pretty much the story on on the whole house thing. Oh, OK. How? How I was able to buy the house I live in now and I absolutely did not have the means to do that. Yeah.

1:55:03 And yeah, the, the, the, the big part of the story is that I I told my wife that I was gonna look into getting a, a brand new house and you know, on a specific lot back back to a river, you know, in a specific area. And and at some point I just got scared. Yeah. And I was gonna back away and I found my wife crying. And that was the trigger. I was like, Oh no, this no, I can't let this happen. Yeah, I gotta do this. So now I have to do it and I have to find a way. So that's the it's actually that second book is not exactly a book. It it was a conference speech and I had written and that that I was actually starting to to do when AVL called me and then I put that on hold and maybe a year or two down the line I decided well why don't I just record it and make it available.

1:55:59 That's cool and that's what I so. How can people get these both of? Them. They're available everywhere. On Audible, Amazon. Yeah, on the iTunes. What are the What are the two books called? So the the first book is called I Gotta Remember What It's Called, the Most Powerful Weight Loss Device Ever Made to Human brain. There you go, That's. The book that was, it was sort of a parody towards all those gadgets that they sell to make you lose weight. And I figured, yeah, well, the most powerful device, you already own it. Retrain your brain, yeah. Yeah, and the other one is how to how to overcome man's biggest obstacle himself. A common theme?

1:56:45 Yeah, yeah. And. It's I didn't go out of my way. I just recorded it. Yeah, the the, the audio book. I kind of, I kind of, you know made some effort. I I I I like to say that I recorded it on my iPhone. The only part that people may not be aware of is that I was using this mic and had had it plugged into an Avalon Pre app. So you were storing it on your iPhone? You weren't. Really recording it on your and I actually recorded it in my walk in closet, which was the deadest room in the house. Cool, cool. But anyway, so I did that. But for the the second one it was just a conference.

1:57:26 So I just I it's it's not as good quality but I just figured I'd have to get it out there and yeah and and move on. So I'm guessing, like most books, you're not quite getting rich from them yet. I'm. I'm not even. That's not even a thing. Yeah. No. Definitely not. Well, I The thing is, I mean, if whatever you do, whatever content you put out there, you have to put a lot of energy into getting it to people and promoting it and all that. I had started doing it in the beginning and then I moved on to something else. So I just let it there. No, I'm not making any money off. That, But even then, I mean, even if you do put a lot into it, the percentage you're probably got a higher likely outcome of becoming a rock star or a movie star or a wildly successful Unicorn entrepreneur or whatever then you do of becoming a successful author, author. Because for sure there's so much content out there. There's so much free content out there now. Like, even I'm an audiobook junkie and even I struggle sometimes, 'cause I'm like, well, you know, why would I buy the audio book when I can go listen to, you know, a whole bunch of half hour or one hour segments on this person where they get into much more detail than they did in the book even. Yeah.

1:58:51 And it's more timely, 'cause they just recorded it last week, the book they recorded two years ago or whatever. Right. So. Yeah. And sometimes there's a lot of content. There's a lot of irreverent content. Yeah, In a book, just because they have to fill like the 500 pages or something like that. True. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like a 10 page point that takes 500 pages to make. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which is one thing I decided not to go that way. So it's a really short book. I think it's the audio book. I think it's. Two hours or something like that. And then your goal was to then go out and become a public speaker as well, which is obviously a very good model and a very successful model for a lot of people. Like, even if the book doesn't sell, that's not the intention. The intention is that it gives you credibility as a public speaker.

1:59:41 I'm an author. I'm a celebrated author. I'm a published author or whatever the word is, right. Yeah, Yeah, that's right. And so by being a published author, you can now go out and use that to promote your. So did you do what's it called, Toastmasters and all of that stuff or? Did you just? No, no, no. We just put it out there. On what was it? Createspace. It was the Amazon platform, so you can actually get a paper copy if you want. No, but I mean for the public speaking thing like did you go no training or anything? I didn't make it. I didn't make it all the way there. I was starting to look into different platforms. Yeah, because I was still breaking it in. Yeah.

2:00:22 So I was still doing presentations for local, you know, things around me just to break it in and and get used to, you know, to the idea of of doing public speaking and make it at ease. And my my point was, you know, working a lot with comedians. Actually one of one of my things I would have liked to do when I was young was be a comedian myself. So I figured I could mix both. And and be a public speaker and be entertaining at the same time. Yeah, Yeah, which are my favorite. I love public speakers who have some personality and stuff like that. Yeah, you want a good laugh too, you know, right?

2:01:04 No, but it's just like it's boring. Unless somebody throws some humor and personality into it, you know, it's it just makes it all that much more interesting. I I'm a junkie for public speakers, like I'll go see if I see keynote speakers in Vegas and it's not even for my convention. I'll go listen to the, you know, I just, I really like that stuff. It's a lot of fun. I did a lot of corporate gigs. I was a light guy. And I've. I've met some really cool public speakers. Yeah, that's what I was. That's what was inspiring me. Yeah. But like I said, when the AVL thing came along, I went, oh, you know what, I wouldn't mind doing that. So did you. Grow up on Tony Robbins. You didn't. Grow up on Tony Robbins. I discovered Tony Robbins late.

2:01:48 Yeah. But. But then again, I think I read just about every book he read to become what he is now. Because my mother had a library, but I I actually inherited that library when she passed away And and I could recognize stuff from all the other people that that I have had read books on. Because what Tony did actually, he he just took all that knowledge and brought it into a package people could understand. Yeah. Yeah, I I started listening to him like 198182. You know, I've I've been a Tony Robbins guy forever and lately he's lost me a bit like he's become a little too polished salesman now. And plus, it's just repackaging of the same content that he used 4050 years ago, you know, So it's like, how many times do I need to hear?

2:02:43 Yeah, Last time I, I, I, I looked at one of his presentations. I was like, I'm, I'm looking at the public he's speaking to and it's just not me. Yeah, yeah, they're all dancing around and jumping up and down and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean, that's his thing now is change your, yeah, change your energy and change your outcome and all of that kind of stuff. But it's just a little too, yeah, it's a little silly for me now, like, and it's it's sad because I really like He actually probably was one of the guys who made a difference in my life. Like I was listening to his cassette tapes when I was, you know, 1617 years old and really learning from him, like really like picking up as much stuff as I possibly could. That said, hey, you don't have to be a, you know, a a broke, dumb, fat idiot.

2:03:37 You can actually make something of your life. And I'm like, really? Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's interesting. Well, congratulations. I mean, the book thing is cool. You know, again, writing, publishing, putting books out there, putting your story out there, especially when it's so personal is building your own house for your family and stuff is amazing, especially when you know that you're not doing it to get rich like. Yeah, it's a simple story. And it's, yeah, you know, like once again I'm I'm doing this because maybe I can help somebody out there. I got some letters from people like in Denmark. And, you know, you don't know where this stuff travels, right. And Yeah. This lady who had like a revelation. Yeah.

2:04:22 One of those words that don't translate. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, she said, oh, I always knew it was in the brain, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now you. Fine. OK. So I hope somebody. I'm very happy with that. There's nothing special about my story. It's just I figured, well, maybe if a schmo like me was able to do something with himself, then maybe somebody else might get inspired by it. Yeah, that was the whole idea behind the story. No, that's that's really super cool. Well, I appreciate you taking the time today to do this. It's been fun. It's been cool getting to know you. I didn't know you before. Even though we both come from the same country, Canada, I spend the summers now up and I have a place in Canmore, just outside of Calgary, in the mountains very close to Banff. And so I'm leaving in two or three weeks to go out there for the summer.

2:05:14 And you know, it's not vacation. It's it's just a different set of scenery. You know, I happen to love the mountains. I don't like the cold so much anymore, which is why I go more in the summer. But but yeah, I miss a lot of things about Canada. There's other things I don't miss, but we won't go into that. But yeah, I appreciate you taking the time. I'm in South Florida, I I live in Palm Beach, FL basically and I've been here since, well, I've been in South Florida since 1991 is when I moved down here. So been here ever since, and I built my place up in Canada about 20 years ago and been going back and forth ever since. So I love it.

2:06:01 It's sort of the perfect mix right now. It's just as you're getting older. Every time I go, it's like, OK, did I get all my prescriptions done? Have I seen the doctor? Am I worried about anything? So yeah, it gets harder as you get older, of course, But as long as you stay healthy, like you said, it's. Yeah, exactly. That much easier. Well, say hello to Mr. Kosters for me. I like that guy. He's a good man. And and when you kick your podcast back into gear, let me know if you want me to come on someday we can have another talk in the opposite direction. Absolutely. I would love that. Yeah. Perfect. Thanks a lot, Fi. Well, you have a great non vacation there and and we'll touch base when you get back.

2:06:44 Absolutely. Yeah. All right, all right. Well, thanks a million for this opportunity. I really, yeah, really appreciate it. No problem at all. Thanks for coming. OK. Take care. None.