#241 - Michael Nevitt, Crossfade Design

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Thanks for joining Geese of
Gear episode number 241.

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This
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Hello,

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and welcome back to episode
number 241. I'm

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maybe looking a little
weirder than normal on

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today's podcast. Part
of the reason is because

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I'm a little nervous. I'm
hitting buttons that I'm

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not used to and stuff. We
have completely changed

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platforms for our podcast
again. We

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did this first, I think,
well, maybe not first, but

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the last time we did it
was close to a year ago.

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It
was last summer and we had

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been using a platform
called Ecamm Live. Ecamm

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is not really made
specifically for podcasting.

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It's
a video, really cool video

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platform. It's
very good. There's

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nothing wrong with it
except that it was crashing

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during podcasts. It
was basically, it would

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freeze up, but you wouldn't
know that it was freezing

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up. But
just unless you happen to

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be looking at the counter
and that would show you

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that it was frozen. We
almost lost the Glenn

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Rogerman podcast. We
had to work many, many

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hours to recover that
podcast. We

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were able to recover it
and play it and you have

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access to it. It's
a great podcast. But

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that was sort of the straw
that broke the camel's

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back, as they say. And
so what we did is we kind

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of went with the crowd. A
lot of the biggest,

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greatest podcasters and
vodcasters or whatever you

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call video guys are using
something called Riverside.

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And
I had actually tried

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Riverside last summer prior
to settling on Ecamm. And

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there was a technical
problem with Riverside. We

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had recorded a couple of
podcasts that were

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problematic where the audio
and the video didn't

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perfectly sync up. And
part of that, and I'm

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going to go into the weeds
here a little bit. But

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the reason behind that is
one of the great things

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about Riverside is that it
bypasses a lot of the

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problems that happen in
remote podcasts. And

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all of my podcasts are
remote. And

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so what tends to happen is
somebody on one side or

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the other gets bad internet
and it starts glitching or

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the audio goes bad or
weird things happen. And

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it screws up the recording.
And

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maybe there's parts where
you can't see or where the

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sound gets terrible. And
so what Riverside has done

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is they've created an
ingenious model where it

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records on your machine on
both sides or multiple

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sides of that podcast. So
it records a local copy on

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the machine while it's
displaying sort of the live

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copy that's over the
internet. So

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even if you see glitches
while you're recording, you

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don't see those in the
final result because what

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happens is while it's
recording, it's uploading

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those files to the cloud
and where I can access

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them later and then do
editing and everything else.

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So
the end result is that you

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have very clean podcasts
recorded and uploaded on

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both sides or multiple
sides of that podcast

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recording. And
it gets around any

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internet. You
could literally lose

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internet. And
although I wouldn't be

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seeing that I'm still
talking to someone, I could

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keep talking and it would
keep recording it. And

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so it's really, really a
cool platform. And

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so today is our first sort
of guinea pig test on

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Riverside. We've
been doing a bunch of

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testing in the background.
As

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I said, I used it last
summer, so I was pretty

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familiar with it. But
now we're going headfirst

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into the deep end. And
so, yeah, welcome the new

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Geysers of Gear on
Riverside. And

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from a recording standpoint
for the guest, it's a much

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better experience. It's
easier. It's

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cleaner, simpler. And
to all of you, the people

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listening, you will get
better audio quality. You'll

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get better video quality.
Hopefully

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we'll never lose another
podcast due to, you know,

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glitches and problems on
either side. And

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so, yeah, thought I should
share that with you. And,

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you know, the goal here
isn't to save money or to

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make my life easier or
anything like that. It's

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to produce the best product
that we can and to give

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you the best interview, the
best discussion, the best

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stories that we possibly
can. So,

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and the other thing that
is cool about Riverside is

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it allows Sarah, our
producer, to actually do

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some producing. So
she will be on all of our

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recordings in the
background. She

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can click buttons and do
things and send messages to

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guests and all kinds of
things. And

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she is also taking part in
the editing now as well.

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So,
and I say taking part,

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it's kind of a funny
statement because I barely

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did any editing. So
those of you who know

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anything about video or
audio podcasts or whatever,

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you can listen to it and
realize that I've done no

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editing. So
we will actually be doing

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some more editing now,
which is a good thing. So

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my other, my favorite topic
of many recent weeks and

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we'll continue forward is
AI. I

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look for things that are
AI related to our industry,

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but not too many people
out there are willing to

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talk about that. You
know, especially

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manufacturers, they're not
putting out a lot of

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information about the AI
projects they're working on,

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even though I know they
are. And,

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you know, I've spoken to
engineers. I

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know some products that are
going to come out in the

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near future that will be
heavily reliant upon AI

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technologies. But
in our industry, that's

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been pretty hush hush. A
lot of people scared to

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talk about it, I guess.
But

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I think we can predict the
future where, you know,

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lights program themselves,
consoles program themselves,

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you know, audio tunes
itself, like just lots of

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things like that that are
going to be happening. A

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couple of funny stories or
interesting stories I read,

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not so funny, I guess, but
the U .S. Air

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Force has been testing AI
and actually an AI

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supported, not even
supported an AI controlled

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dogfight. So
they basically had a

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dogfight between a simulated
dogfight, like they're not

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using real bullets or
anything, but a jet that

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was AI controlled and a
jet that was human

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controlled. And
the AI jet one. And

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so that was an interesting
story that tells you how

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far that they've gotten
already. So

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an AI jet is able to beat
a human jet in a dogfight.

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And
so the interesting part

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about that is I think a
really terrible use of AI

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is related to the, sorry,
somebody tried to come in

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the room while I'm
recording. A

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terrible use of AI is
actually when you have like

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drones, for example, wars
that are just completely

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done by drone where there's
no human life involved and

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therefore there's no
caution. So

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basically, instead of using
common sense and caution,

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we've got people flying AI
controlled jets at each

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other, killing thousands of
people. But

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because you're not a human
and you're not there and

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you're not present, you
don't get to see all those

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dead people. And
therefore it's no big deal.

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Right.
That I see as a problem.

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So,
you know, I hope we don't

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continue down that road.
Like

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I'd like to see AI airline
captains, you know, we've

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been talking recently about
things like surgeons, you

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know, getting AI surgery
done or robotic surgery. To

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me, that's a great use of
AI. We

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talked about cooking food
versus prepping food. I

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don't mind AI prepping the
food or robots prepping the

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food. But
I'd like to have a chef

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who has, you know, special
skills and can create

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nuance and stuff like that.
But

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also, you know, flying
airplanes, like, you know,

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take away the human error
altogether and have robots

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and AI flying airplanes, I
think is a good thing and

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navigating those airplanes.
So,

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lastly on AI is Elon. Elon
Musk, of course, the owner

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of, or not owner, but the
CEO of Tesla claiming to

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be selling fully sentient
robots under their Optimus

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brand by the end of next
year and actually have them

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working in the factory in
the Tesla factory by the

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end of this year. And
he's talking about sentient

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robots. So
these are robots that can

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think and feel and have
emotions and things like

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that. These
aren't like your typical

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machine robots. These
are humanoid robots that

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are sentient. So
this is interesting if he

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thinks that he's got that
coming that quickly. Also

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from Elon, because he did
his financial report Q1

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financial report yesterday
or their earnings call, I

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guess. He's
pushing hard on on FSD or

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full self driving claiming
that he will have it

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expanded into commercial use
this year. I

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think he's talking about
launching Robo cab or Robo

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taxi or something by
August. But

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also selling their FSD
technology to other

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manufacturers to really push
that forward. And,

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you know, I was having
this conversation with

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somebody recently where I
don't think we're that far

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off from a world. It's
not going to be like the

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Jetsons where you have
little flying spaceships

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everywhere, maybe someday,
but I don't think that's

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in the next 10 years. But
I do believe in the next

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10 years, the majority of
cars on the street are

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going to be self driving.
And

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this should technically
eliminate accidents or at

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least for the most part,
you know, because I don't

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know at what point they'll
outlaw or ban human

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drivers. But,
you know, it should

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eliminate or let's call it
drastically reduce accidents

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and things like that,
reduce pollution reduce,

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because they can do
extremely efficient mapping

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and trip plans and all of
that kind of stuff. It'll

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reduce, you know, just use
of rubber use of roads

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traffic in general. So
I'm actually for that as

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much as I like driving, I
can envision a world where

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I don't drive anymore,
except maybe on a racetrack

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or something like maybe
they'll still keep

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facilities out in the
country where you can go

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take your, your normal car
and you can go drive

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around but on regular
roads, you don't drive

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around. Who
knows, like maybe I'm just

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talking nonsense to. And
lastly, before we get into

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today's episode, there is a
large company, a certain

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large company in our
industry who've been gearing

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up to sell for probably
about a year now. And

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00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,700
I'm not going to mention
any names here, but there's

239
00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:19,020
been a lot of rumors out
there about their

240
00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:23,420
conversations with buyers
about their positioning the

241
00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:26,720
company to be acquired,
etc. And

242
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,100
now there are pretty
significant rumors of a

243
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:33,040
particular strategic buyer,
meaning a buyer within our

244
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,400
industry, not necessarily
another, you know, big bank

245
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,460
or a financial institute,
private equity company,

246
00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:44,420
whatever. But
that particular strategic is

247
00:13:44,420 --> 00:13:49,580
strategic buyer has also
been quietly raising a

248
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:54,500
pretty large amount of
cash. So

249
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,400
more to come, you know, I
don't want to say more

250
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,780
than I really know and I
don't even want to say

251
00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:03,020
what I do know, but I
believe that there's going

252
00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:05,900
to be a pretty impactful
and significant sale that

253
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:10,300
should happen within the
next couple of months. And

254
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:16,300
we'll see more to come. So
today's guest is another

255
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:20,380
pretty cool guy, Michael
Nevitt. Michael

256
00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:23,280
has spent 30 plus years in
the entertainment industry,

257
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,000
first as a freelancer then
in 2011 Michael joined

258
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,080
forces with other designers
to create Crossfade Design

259
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,160
LLC. During
that time Michael has

260
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,940
created designs for small,
medium and large scale

261
00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:41,240
events worldwide. Michael
is the president and senior

262
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,620
designer at Crossfade and
guides its overall business

263
00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:47,960
operations. Michael
has also been the resident

264
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,880
lighting designer for 13
seasons at the Hope Summer

265
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,680
Repertory Theater in
Holland, Michigan. He

266
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,440
designed scenery and or
lighting for over 40

267
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,940
theatrical productions there.
Michael

268
00:15:00,940 --> 00:15:03,520
has been involved with
hundreds more theater

269
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,880
productions, concert tours,
television and live event

270
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,120
productions, including events
like the Salt Lake Olympics

271
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,720
Super Bowl halftime show,
which I believe we'll talk

272
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,020
about because I think
that's the one. The

273
00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:19,380
disaster that Martin got
involved in in the 90s.

274
00:15:19,940 --> 00:15:22,560
Deal
or no deal, the man show

275
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,660
and the Ryder Cup opening
ceremonies. His

276
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:29,140
motion picture production
highlights include the

277
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:33,400
Grinch, Flintstones in Viva
Rock Vegas, Miss

278
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,480
Congeniality, J .N. Silent
Bob Strike Back, Batman and

279
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,740
Robin and Danny Collins.
Michael

280
00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:43,020
is one of the foremost
designers in combat sports

281
00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:46,460
television, having served as
lighting director for 100

282
00:15:46,460 --> 00:15:49,360
plus HBO boxing broadcasts.
Some

283
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,280
of his proudest moments
have occurred outside the

284
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,000
bright lights instead
serving as a mentor and

285
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,560
designer for productions
with his children Connor

286
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,020
and Cassidy. So
here we go. Let's

287
00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:09,520
bring on Mr. Michael
Nevin. Michael,

288
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,640
how are you? I'm
good. Glad

289
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,000
to be here. Cool.
Yeah, I'm glad to have you

290
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,680
here. I
can't even remember the

291
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:17,620
last time I talked to you.
I'm

292
00:16:17,620 --> 00:16:19,560
sure it was at an LDI
show or something. We

293
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,560
bumped into each other, but
it's been a while. Yeah,

294
00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:25,020
no, Martin days. Well,
you were actually at

295
00:16:25,020 --> 00:16:27,740
Martin, I think, before me.
I

296
00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:30,260
was at Martin before
everyone. So

297
00:16:30,260 --> 00:16:35,240
the only person who was at
Martin before me was a guy

298
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,960
named Paul Reiner, who you
probably don't know or

299
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,600
never knew. He's
been out of the business

300
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,440
for 20 years probably. And
there was a Russian guy

301
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,460
named Alex. And
this was the guy who was

302
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:53,000
sort of the anti sales guy
at Trackerman who everyone

303
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,540
hated. Like
this guy, he would just

304
00:16:54,540 --> 00:16:57,360
brutalize you into buying
smoke machines or whatever.

305
00:16:57,740 --> 00:17:00,719
Right?
You buy now. And

306
00:17:00,719 --> 00:17:04,200
so I didn't have very big
shoes to fill really. It

307
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,859
was quite easy to sort of
get over that bar that was

308
00:17:07,859 --> 00:17:10,119
left for me. But
yeah, I was pretty early

309
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,520
at Martin. But
I recall something and I

310
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,420
was thinking about this
leading up to this podcast

311
00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:17,460
and you can tell me
whether it's true or not.

312
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:19,740
But
weren't you on the Super

313
00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:23,660
Bowl where we had those
RoboScan 1220s that failed

314
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:26,560
so miserably on the
halftime show? Yeah,

315
00:17:26,619 --> 00:17:30,500
Jason Robinson and I. Yes,
correct. And

316
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:32,220
we were, you know, young.
I

317
00:17:32,228 --> 00:17:34,500
was working for Moody
Rabbits then. I

318
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:37,420
remember. Jeff
was the LD and I was the

319
00:17:37,420 --> 00:17:41,220
gaffer and Jason, I think,
was brought in by Bandit

320
00:17:41,220 --> 00:17:43,880
to run one of the mini
consoles that we had.

321
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:46,460
Right.
Yeah, the 1220 showed up

322
00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:49,440
totally inadequate to do
what we were doing, which

323
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,780
was put them on the
balcony of the, you know,

324
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,140
Dauphin Stadium or Joe
Robbie or whatever it was

325
00:17:54,148 --> 00:17:57,220
called back then. And
they showed up in boxes

326
00:17:57,220 --> 00:18:00,000
from Denmark with no plugs.
No

327
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,500
plugs. I
remember it so well.

328
00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:06,280
Wearing
them up and three pens

329
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,440
that needed them have
reversed on it to work

330
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,540
with the hodds. It
wasn't even painful to

331
00:18:13,540 --> 00:18:16,700
listen to. I
know Nils reminded me of

332
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:19,520
that too. Programming
hog ones. Yeah,

333
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,460
it was a nightmare. I
mean, I don't know that I

334
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:26,420
slept that whole week
because between dealing with

335
00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:32,640
Finn Kalistrup in Denmark,
the engineer and Tex on

336
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,800
our side, I think Mike
Ravenhill might have even

337
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,300
been there. Come
in to help us as a tech.

338
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,380
But
and it might have been

339
00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:43,720
Noel. I
think was it Noel or was

340
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,700
that that might have been
too early for Noel. But

341
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:50,200
yeah, I mean, we just it
was such a nightmare. And

342
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,080
I remember there were also
some in some carts that

343
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,360
they made to drag out to
the field. And

344
00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,100
at one point you guys were
programming and they turned

345
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:03,240
on the sprinklers just like
out of the blue. And

346
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,600
you know, these Robo scans
were hating life enough

347
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,800
before getting hit by
water. Yeah.

348
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:10,980
So I had some on some
scissor lifts, too, that we

349
00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:13,640
had mega scrollers on.
Yeah.

350
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,880
I get it. Scrollers
if you know those. Yeah.

351
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:19,340
And they didn't like the
wind too much, but they

352
00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:22,680
live about a third of the
stadium with one out. Yeah,

353
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,120
I know they were crazy.
You

354
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,160
know, that was the first
Super Bowl that they

355
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,140
actually allow us to allow
people to turn off the

356
00:19:29,140 --> 00:19:32,680
house lights full. Right.
It was a Disney event. It

357
00:19:32,688 --> 00:19:37,500
was promoting that Indiana
Jones ride and they they

358
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:39,760
allowed the stadium lights
to be turned off because

359
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:40,800
they were always afraid.
Well,

360
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,420
what would happen to the
stadium lights and come

361
00:19:42,420 --> 00:19:45,140
back on? Yeah.
Yeah. No,

362
00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:47,320
I remember that. Yeah,
that was crazy. But

363
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:52,060
I also learned that week
how like, you know, you do

364
00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:55,540
not touch the grass like
whoever is responsible for

365
00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:58,420
that grass is God. And
so when they turned on the

366
00:19:58,420 --> 00:20:01,420
sprinklers and we went to
try and talk tough to

367
00:20:01,420 --> 00:20:04,220
them, they were like,
excuse me. And

368
00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:06,380
then, you know, what they
did the day before the

369
00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:08,600
game is they went and they
painted the grass green

370
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,540
with like sprayers because
they're like, well, look

371
00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:13,680
brown on television. And
then the next day after

372
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,120
the game, they bulldozed
the entire field. Oh

373
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,740
my God. It's
crazy, isn't it? It

374
00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:21,640
is really crazy how how
it's sacred ground,

375
00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:25,280
literally. But
but I remember we had a

376
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,320
massive data problem with
those Robo scans and like

377
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,260
they would just lose their
minds and start going in

378
00:20:33,260 --> 00:20:34,860
weird directions and stuff.
And

379
00:20:34,868 --> 00:20:38,100
Finn, the engineer from
Martin didn't believe this

380
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,300
was happening. And
so I believe we actually

381
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:45,060
made him come over and
like he was in the rain

382
00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:47,880
and and out there trying
to figure out what was

383
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,440
going on and it was the
most nightmare gate. And

384
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:52,920
then he was like, oh, I'm
going to take pictures back

385
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,780
then. Right.
You just haul them over

386
00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:57,440
there and hope they put a
piece of plastic trash bag

387
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,200
over it. Yeah.
I mean, it's a miracle

388
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,560
that Martin turned out to
do they were given the

389
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,440
early products with the
start. The

390
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,760
pal member of the pal. Do
I remember the pal? I

391
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,400
remember the pal. Another
good story there was I

392
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,580
think it was there was a
gigantic tall as a moving

393
00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:21,300
head, but it's really tall.
Mac

394
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:24,800
Mac 1200. Yeah,
it was the Mac 1200.

395
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,900
Montero
calls me up before I work

396
00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:29,780
for Martin said, I want to
want you to look at this

397
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:33,240
new light and he sends me
a cut sheet and it looked

398
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,780
like a nice little bear
light size light. Little

399
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:39,160
thing is like as tall as
me. And

400
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,000
that's funny, Frank. Where's
the real light? Yeah.

401
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:45,920
This is it. I'm
like, I can't aim that on

402
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,340
a truss. Did
you do the did you go to

403
00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:53,000
the demo we did in Vegas
with Michael Desma designed

404
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,680
it for us? No,
thanks. So

405
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,440
yeah, it was it was
hilarious because basically

406
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,560
we went to Peter Johansson
and said, I think I don't

407
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,640
remember what we were
asking for at the time a

408
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,720
studio color. I
think, you know, like we

409
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,380
want a studio color and
moving head wash light to

410
00:22:11,380 --> 00:22:15,540
compete with the VL five
and high end has this cool

411
00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:19,020
studio color thing. He
ships us this Mac 1200 and

412
00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:21,720
we went, whoa, it's not
quite what we were looking

413
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,380
for. We
can stop for three hours

414
00:22:24,380 --> 00:22:25,920
just on the Martin stories.
I'm

415
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,240
sure. Oh,
absolutely. No,

416
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:31,060
I mean the early days as
as terrible as some of

417
00:22:31,060 --> 00:22:36,840
that stuff was and some of
it really was terrible. It

418
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,940
was the Wild West back
then, you know, it was

419
00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:40,900
there was no technology.
There

420
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:45,220
was no path to follow. And
all that, you know, I will

421
00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:48,220
never slam Peter Johansson
for trying because all he

422
00:22:48,220 --> 00:22:51,480
was trying to do was take
stuff that other companies

423
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,960
were doing and then sort
of change or value engineer

424
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,100
it basically. He
was trying to value

425
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,140
engineer very lights or
golden scans or whatever

426
00:23:03,140 --> 00:23:06,080
and make it less expensive
and more accessible to the

427
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,280
masses and reliability came
later. Let's

428
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,700
just say. Yeah.
I mean, it was great time

429
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,180
to be getting into the
business on the house

430
00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:18,720
coming out of school right
at that time. You

431
00:23:18,728 --> 00:23:20,840
know, nobody knew how to
run any of these stuff.

432
00:23:21,140 --> 00:23:22,020
Oh,
yeah. And

433
00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:25,120
animators and and you know,
it was a great opportunity

434
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:28,840
for a kid coming out to
just jump in there. Oh,

435
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,800
yeah. You
guys were all still saying,

436
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,560
oh, we hate this is not
going to work. We

437
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,540
want like bear lights and
moving lights and so forth.

438
00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:37,980
And
you know, so it was a

439
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:41,360
great break for me to be
coming out at that time.

440
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:42,940
Yeah.
Yeah. No,

441
00:23:43,020 --> 00:23:45,180
it was it was interesting,
but I don't know why I

442
00:23:45,180 --> 00:23:47,660
remembered that you were on
that show, but I remember

443
00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:52,680
that you were like, I only
ever got involved with

444
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,660
Martin anyways on that one
halftime show. And

445
00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:58,780
I mean, there were some
good things to it, like as

446
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:00,860
bad as it was and the
fact that I didn't sleep

447
00:24:00,860 --> 00:24:04,860
all week and stuff. My
my ex -wife, her dad was a

448
00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:09,040
huge Tony Bennett guy like
huge Chicago, you know,

449
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,700
goes to Vegas once a
month. He

450
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:16,000
was, you know, the epitome
of a Tony Bennett fan. And

451
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,540
so I took him to one of
the rehearsals and I just

452
00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:23,580
remember him standing there
like, like he was looking

453
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:26,820
at God, you know, like he
just so there was one

454
00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:31,160
point where Tony was on a
golf cart sitting in one

455
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,660
of the bombs and and my
father -in -law Tom, he's

456
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:38,180
smacking me on the arm.
Marcel,

457
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,900
Marcel, Marcel, and I was
talking to, you know, Nils

458
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:44,580
or somebody and I'm like,
yeah, what? And

459
00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:47,480
he goes, that's Mr. Bennett
right there on the golf

460
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,260
cart. And
I said, well, go say hello

461
00:24:49,260 --> 00:24:50,740
to him. And
he goes, what? And

462
00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:52,420
I said, go say hello to
him. He

463
00:24:52,420 --> 00:24:56,400
ends up talking to him for
like an hour just and Tony

464
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,340
appeared to be liking it
too. You

465
00:24:58,340 --> 00:25:00,040
know, he wasn't annoyed by
it. So

466
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,200
it was pretty fun. That
was cool. That

467
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,280
was a cool experience. The
rest of it was pretty bad.

468
00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:08,020
Most
of it. So

469
00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:11,700
tell me, because I like to
do this on this podcast.

470
00:25:12,460 --> 00:25:13,980
How
did you get started? How

471
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:16,360
do you fall into this
wacky industry of ours?

472
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,900
Well,
I'm a theater guy and I

473
00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:22,660
started, but it was
interesting because when I

474
00:25:22,660 --> 00:25:25,840
was a kid, I was a sports
kid, you know, baseball

475
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,660
wrestling that kind of
thing. And

476
00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:30,580
then when I was in seventh
grade, it really is funny

477
00:25:30,580 --> 00:25:32,560
because I'm one of the few
people that found out what

478
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,840
they wanted to do in
seventh grade and have done

479
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,520
nothing. And
that's really my story. My

480
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,100
buddy was tried out for
the school play. We

481
00:25:43,108 --> 00:25:46,160
were doing Tom Sawyer in
the cafeteria, you know,

482
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,240
scenario and he got cast
as Tom Sawyer and he's

483
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,380
like, well, you should try
out. I'm

484
00:25:51,380 --> 00:25:53,380
like, I'm not going to do
that acting thing. But

485
00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:55,840
I decided to help sign up
for the light crew. And

486
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,720
it was literally at that
time, you know, practically,

487
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,580
Payt cans are old for now.
Well,

488
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,060
we'll re -estat forward and
I just got hooked on it.

489
00:26:05,060 --> 00:26:07,100
And
then I was fortunate. My

490
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,380
eighth grade year in the
high school opened a brand

491
00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:12,780
new theater. And
that was whatever early

492
00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:16,340
80s, right? Modern
technology, a two -scene

493
00:26:16,340 --> 00:26:22,660
preset major lightboard with
a slide patcher and a

494
00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:26,080
whole bunch of, you know,
lecos and fresneles. I

495
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,600
mean, a lot of more
majors. Have

496
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,860
you never made these cardio
black cast iron things?

497
00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:35,920
And,
you know, that theater at

498
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,880
the high school, which is
a public high school,

499
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,300
turned out to be, you
know, really good and it

500
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,580
ruined to it like a
national program where it

501
00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:49,180
was recognized national
through the, you know,

502
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,860
international thespian thing.
And

503
00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:54,840
we took shows to the
national convention date.

504
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:58,220
And,
you know, my high school,

505
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,480
you know, teacher really
got me hooked. And

506
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,180
I, you know, lived in the
theater department. You

507
00:27:05,188 --> 00:27:08,060
know, I built the sets. I
hung the lights, I, you

508
00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:11,620
know, in whatever. And
I mean, I, you know, and

509
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:14,500
the sports just went away
and I was like, oh, this

510
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,240
is so much fun. You
just completely ditched the

511
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,180
all the team stuff, the
sports stuff. It

512
00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:21,680
wasn't that great anyway.
So

513
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,560
it was, yeah, that was a
small kid. I

514
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,720
wasn't going to, you know,
be a major league baseball

515
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,880
player as much as I loved
it. And,

516
00:27:28,060 --> 00:27:33,100
you know, so similar to
me, like I music going the

517
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:35,220
music route because I be
same thing. I

518
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:37,400
became a musician though.
But

519
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,860
going that route was quite
an easy decision for me

520
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:41,880
because I pretty much
sucked it. Everything

521
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,460
else, you know, I was
terrible at sports for the

522
00:27:44,460 --> 00:27:49,340
most part. So,
you know, I just lived it

523
00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:51,360
and loved it. And
then, you know, I started

524
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,040
thinking, oh, you know, you
know, you get to high

525
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,120
school and you're a junior.
And

526
00:27:55,128 --> 00:27:56,880
you're like, what are you
going to do with your

527
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,420
career son? And
I'm like, I think I want

528
00:27:59,420 --> 00:28:01,420
to go to college and do a
theater. And

529
00:28:01,420 --> 00:28:04,840
my dad looked at me like,
uh, you're, what? That's

530
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,560
not a thing. You
know, my dad was an

531
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,180
engineer and I come a
family of engineers and

532
00:28:10,180 --> 00:28:13,260
machine is so very
practical people. And,

533
00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:14,920
and, but they were
supportive. And

534
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,740
I went down to University
of Evansville, which was

535
00:28:17,740 --> 00:28:20,160
about an hour and a half
from my house. Which,

536
00:28:20,220 --> 00:28:22,700
I, of course, is a small
school, but it's produced a

537
00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:28,360
lot of great talent and,
you know, got hooked down

538
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,140
there, loved it, kept doing
it. But

539
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:33,040
all along I was doing
both, you know, TD work

540
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,420
and building sets and
engineering stuff and doing

541
00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:41,180
lighting and then, you
know, to connect it to my

542
00:28:41,180 --> 00:28:44,760
career. And
when I graduated or getting

543
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,380
here gradually, I'm like,
what am I going to do?

544
00:28:46,540 --> 00:28:48,060
I'm
just a kid that grew up

545
00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,780
in Louisville, Kentucky and
I'm in school in Indiana.

546
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,380
I
don't know a soul in the

547
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:55,400
business. No,
my family wasn't connected

548
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,740
at all. And
I knew one guy in LA that

549
00:28:58,740 --> 00:29:01,340
had went to school and
then went out there to be

550
00:29:01,340 --> 00:29:04,000
a crotch guy and he was
doing special effects on

551
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,980
the work. He's
like, hey, you can sleep

552
00:29:05,980 --> 00:29:08,240
on my couch until you find
a place. So

553
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,400
when I decided, well, I
need some little firmer

554
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,940
than that. So
I said, well, I go to

555
00:29:12,940 --> 00:29:15,620
grad school. So
I applied to UCLA and Yale

556
00:29:15,620 --> 00:29:17,480
and got into both of them.
And

557
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,500
then I was like, okay,
what do I do here? Because

558
00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:22,880
my dream was always to do
Broadway. So

559
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,740
I should go to Yale
because, you know, it's

560
00:29:24,740 --> 00:29:29,660
Yale and do the Broadway
route. And

561
00:29:29,660 --> 00:29:32,140
I started thinking, well,
you know, there's, well, 10

562
00:29:32,140 --> 00:29:34,920
people that do Broadway
successfully and make a

563
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,780
living at it. And,
you know, I was thinking,

564
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,420
well, I'll go to LA. So
I went to UCLA and got my

565
00:29:41,420 --> 00:29:44,660
master's degree. And,
you know, education is

566
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:46,240
really important to me. I
think it's a really

567
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,920
important thing to do. It's
not necessary in our

568
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,500
business, of course, but it
taught me a lot. I

569
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:57,420
learned in undergraduate
school from a professor

570
00:29:57,420 --> 00:30:02,420
named Joe Flado, who was a
really more scenic designer.

571
00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:03,380
I
don't think he's going to

572
00:30:03,380 --> 00:30:04,980
be mad at me for saying
that. But

573
00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:09,280
he really did do what you
would say paint with light.

574
00:30:09,860 --> 00:30:11,720
He
taught me, and I was just

575
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,680
a technique telling how to
skyline, do everything there

576
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:15,900
was. I
know about Lito's and

577
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,480
Fresnel's, Sixpike, Twelves
and so forth. I

578
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,360
could name every piece of
gel in the gel book. And

579
00:30:22,368 --> 00:30:25,400
then he was like, oh,
that's important. You

580
00:30:25,408 --> 00:30:28,500
know, we've got to paint
with light. And

581
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:29,960
he taught me how to use
color. He

582
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,600
taught me how to use, you
know, highlights and shadows

583
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,700
and do all of this design
stuff. And

584
00:30:35,708 --> 00:30:39,040
what that part, I'm really
a technical person. So

585
00:30:39,048 --> 00:30:43,260
that's where when I went
to UCLA, I, you know, I

586
00:30:43,260 --> 00:30:46,800
started getting interested
in moving lights, this

587
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,040
verilights with a new
thing. And

588
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,140
I caught a break in that
Jim Moody called out to

589
00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:55,400
UCLA because he was a
graduate of UCLA. And

590
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,740
today we're looking for
somebody to draw an auto

591
00:30:57,740 --> 00:31:01,160
-gap. Now,
this was 1990, right?

592
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,940
AutoCAD
10 was, we had a professor

593
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:06,800
named Lee Rose who
literally wrote a book on

594
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,860
AutoCAD on stage. Wow.
And we helped him build

595
00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:12,820
symbols. And,
you know, this was just

596
00:31:12,820 --> 00:31:15,320
standard AutoCAD. There
was no lighting to it. So

597
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,200
we made our own symbols
and stuff. And

598
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,660
then I went to work for
Jim Moody and Jeff Ravitz

599
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:22,340
at their company, Moody
Ravitz. And,

600
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,100
you know, that was a big
break for me, really. No

601
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:27,700
kidding. Because
I got to Jim, I mean, you

602
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:29,760
know, people who don't know
Jim, well, Jim is with

603
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,160
Sundance Lighting and he
just recently passed away a

604
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,840
couple of years ago, just
a great gentleman, so

605
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,440
knowledgeable. And,
you know, he started rock

606
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,380
and roll at a time when
you didn't go buy parkans

607
00:31:41,380 --> 00:31:43,560
and trust you, built
parkans and trust, right?

608
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:46,300
And
Sundance Lighting. And

609
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:49,420
then he ended up being
sort of a legend in TV

610
00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:52,120
lighting. I
learned a lot about Daphne

611
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,720
and TV lighting from him.
And

612
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,200
then, and I also got an
opportunity to work for

613
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,780
Jeff Ravitz. And,
you know, Jeff is also a

614
00:31:58,780 --> 00:32:00,960
legend. I
remember the very first

615
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,540
week I was working for
those guys being a kid

616
00:32:03,540 --> 00:32:07,060
from, you know, Louisville,
Kentucky. Jeff

617
00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:08,960
said, I need to go to
Limmons in Indiana. We're

618
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,840
doing John Mellon, Cap,
Thompson at the football

619
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,080
stadium. I'm
like, perfect. I

620
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,560
called everybody I knew.
Hey,

621
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,760
you know, I grew up in
that area. John

622
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,800
Mellon camp was a legend.
Yeah,

623
00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:24,100
that's cool. So
was that your first like

624
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:26,640
rock and roll gig? Like
your first literally that

625
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,980
was my first rock and roll
gig. I

626
00:32:27,988 --> 00:32:29,940
mean, I pulled around with
Bear Lights a little bit.

627
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:31,560
I
wasn't, you know, I wasn't

628
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,400
in a band. I
wasn't a musician. Yeah.

629
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,640
It wasn't that. I
was a theater kid. Yeah.

630
00:32:36,860 --> 00:32:39,480
And, you know, found out
that, wow, you know, this

631
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,240
is kind of fun. Now,
ironically, my first concert

632
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,020
I went to was a sticks
concert in around 1983 when

633
00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:48,640
I was in high school. And
they were, I believe the

634
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,140
second show to have the
ones on. And

635
00:32:52,140 --> 00:32:54,060
was rabbits designing it?
Rabbits

636
00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:56,680
was the design. But
that's, it's funny how that

637
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,640
all ties together. Right.
So I went to that concert

638
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,120
and I saw these Bear
Lights and they were like,

639
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,040
oh, my God. All
these lights start coming

640
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:06,960
down. I'm
like, oh my God, oh my

641
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,900
God. This
is what I, you know, this

642
00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:10,180
is what I want to do.
That's

643
00:33:10,180 --> 00:33:12,600
awesome. You
know, I didn't at that

644
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,660
time have any hope of
going to work for Bear

645
00:33:14,660 --> 00:33:16,440
Lights. Yeah.
I didn't know anybody in

646
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,180
the business. So
yeah, like to wrap that

647
00:33:19,180 --> 00:33:24,060
up. I
graduated from UCLA in 1993

648
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:27,120
and I was just, you know,
I was doing, you know,

649
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:29,840
gaffy and crew work and I
worked on a couple of

650
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,760
feature films by that time
and, you know, just doing

651
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,200
crew stuff. And
I got a call again, a guy

652
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,100
called UCLA looking for
somebody that might be

653
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:41,840
interested. I'm
like, professor passed it

654
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,800
on to me because he knew
that, you know, I had done

655
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,580
the internship with those
guys and new moving lights.

656
00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:48,900
And
the guy was Neil

657
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,460
Storgerson. Oh,
geez. Funny

658
00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:53,720
how it all connects. I
was listening to Matias

659
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,200
doing his podcast and he
was talking about how, you

660
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,120
know, I got connected with
him when I was teaching

661
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,800
the Automated Lighting
Academy. And,

662
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,320
you know, bunch of great
people. That's

663
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,760
a whole other story that
he went into a little bit.

664
00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:08,340
But,
you know, Neil's called up

665
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:11,280
and I went and interviewed
with Nils and he was like,

666
00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:13,800
yeah, we got this new
company called Flying Page

667
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,480
Systems. And
I was like, that's a funny

668
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,199
thing. We
got the board. So

669
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,960
did all of us. All
of us thought that. Yeah.

670
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:24,000
And I was literally the
first flying big employee

671
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,600
other than the three guys,
Nils, Tom and Nick. I

672
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,980
didn't know that. I
never knew that. I

673
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:33,100
knew you were there early,
but I didn't know that you

674
00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:34,300
were the first employee.
That's

675
00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:36,300
why I wasn't there when
they developed the Hog One,

676
00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:39,260
but I was there when they
launched it. And

677
00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:42,179
we had a little office and
Nils lived in a house in

678
00:34:42,179 --> 00:34:46,600
Malibu, California, and we
got a little storefront on

679
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,400
the PCH in Malibu, set up
a console and, you know, I

680
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,260
do training there. And
Nils was gone doing his

681
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:55,199
thing. So,
you know, every day I

682
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:58,160
would kind of pack my
lunch, go across the PCH,

683
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,040
sit on the beach, watch,
you know, watch the waves

684
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,080
and eat my lunch. And
the funny thing is, is

685
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,580
after about a year, I
caught everybody that had a

686
00:35:08,580 --> 00:35:10,500
Hog One. There
was only like a dozen in

687
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:14,140
the U .S. It
was Nook and Marty Whitman

688
00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:17,080
and, you know, all these
guys that were Hog One

689
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,600
guys. And
there really wasn't that

690
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,920
much for me to do. So
I thought, little did you

691
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,700
know? Little
did you know it was about

692
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:33,660
to go nuts? Yeah.
So what happened was is we

693
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:37,360
were at Plaza one year and
it's a cliche story, but

694
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,680
it is true. Literally
in a pub, you know, I sat

695
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,560
there and I was just a
bystander really, but, you

696
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,120
know, Nick and Tom and
Nils are like, oh, we're

697
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,020
going to build a new
console and it's going to

698
00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:53,040
be touchscreen. And
everyone's like, oh, no,

699
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,020
that'll never last on the
road. And

700
00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:57,980
I remember like it was
yesterday, Nils going over

701
00:35:57,980 --> 00:36:00,980
and looking at the screen
that the waitress was

702
00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:03,240
talking to, right? And
they said, we're going to

703
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:06,280
use that screen because
this may not have it how

704
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:07,680
it actually turned out, but
that was how the

705
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,620
conversation went. And
they were like, well, it

706
00:36:10,620 --> 00:36:13,640
survives beer and all this
stuff. So

707
00:36:13,647 --> 00:36:16,800
that's some really good
logic, actually, you know,

708
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,760
that really is good logic.
I

709
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,080
never knew that story and
that's incredible. Yeah,

710
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,300
I don't think I'm giving
away a trade secret or

711
00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:26,680
anything here, but they
were sketching it out on

712
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,300
an act and you know, two
screens and it's 10 faders

713
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:31,960
and oh, we need a keypad.
Well,

714
00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:33,940
let's just copy to keep
that off the light pad

715
00:36:33,940 --> 00:36:35,900
because that's what
everybody knows. So

716
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:37,920
if you look at a keypad
on a haul, it's the same

717
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,320
or angels and keep that on
a light pad. Interesting.

718
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:43,420
Just little things like
that. And

719
00:36:43,428 --> 00:36:45,840
then I said, well, you
know, you guys are going

720
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,300
to take a while to develop
this. I'm

721
00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:50,560
going to go out freelance
and do some stuff and, and

722
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,360
you know, call me up when
you know, you're launching

723
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,880
this console and they did.
And

724
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,660
well, at the time they
decided to give the

725
00:36:59,660 --> 00:37:02,040
distribution to AC lighting.
But

726
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,800
how, how, what was the
distance of time between

727
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,220
when you said, okay, guys,
that looks like a great

728
00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:10,540
idea. Call
me when it's done. How

729
00:37:10,540 --> 00:37:13,740
long did that take? That's
probably a year, nine

730
00:37:13,740 --> 00:37:17,060
months or so. Wow.
And, you know, so I

731
00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:19,680
stopped working for Flying
Pig, but I think on good

732
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,340
terms, nose would say. And
then when AC lighting took

733
00:37:24,340 --> 00:37:28,700
over distribution, Bob
Gordon calls me up and

734
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:31,540
says, hey, you need a
support guy for this new

735
00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:34,520
console. And
I'm like, great, love it.

736
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:35,760
I'll
take the job. So

737
00:37:35,768 --> 00:37:38,440
he was in the Gorac Hills,
California. I

738
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:39,540
was already living in LA.
So

739
00:37:39,548 --> 00:37:43,400
that worked. So
we launched this new hog

740
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,040
too. And
I remember the very first

741
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,260
hog too that landed in
America. Bob

742
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:52,360
was like, the hog is too,
it's shown up today. I

743
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,840
want you to take it down
to Disneyland and you're

744
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,020
going to do, you're going
to like the castle for

745
00:37:58,020 --> 00:38:00,700
Halloween for Brian Day.
Geez.

746
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,180
No pressure. No
pressure. Oh

747
00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:07,240
my God. I
mean, but it was a hog,

748
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,320
right? So
I figured I'm one of two.

749
00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:10,640
Yeah.
So we'll get this console

750
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,720
out there. What
program in the way? Vines.

751
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,480
You know, I think we had
IntelliBeam's maybe Cyber

752
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,440
Lights. I
don't remember Vines

753
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,380
crawling up the castle.
Everything

754
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:21,700
was great. Brian
says, okay, can you go

755
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:23,480
back and change this queue?
And

756
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,300
I'm like, okay, so I start
changing queues and he

757
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:29,960
starts screwing up. And
I'm like, what's going on?

758
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,120
And
if you're a programmer, you

759
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,560
kind of follow my logic
here. If

760
00:38:32,567 --> 00:38:35,080
you're not, you might not
understand this, but I

761
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,780
called up Tom Thorn and I
said, what's going on?

762
00:38:37,780 --> 00:38:39,340
Because
what's a tracking console

763
00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:42,880
me? And
I'm like, oh, so I only

764
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,400
dealt with the inter
tracking consoles, which I

765
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,460
don't, you know, without
worrying you too much is

766
00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:51,700
you, you replace the hard
values after every queue.

767
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,200
Right.
So if the lights in blue,

768
00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:56,060
blue, blue, blue, blue,
blue, and you change it to

769
00:38:56,060 --> 00:38:58,200
red, it'll change the
values to red, red, red,

770
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,800
red, red down the queue
list. Right.

771
00:38:59,940 --> 00:39:02,560
A hog was a transparent
tracking console. So

772
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,480
it said being blue and
then had no values. So

773
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,460
if you change it to red,
it would just track red

774
00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:12,440
without changing the queues.
Does

775
00:39:12,448 --> 00:39:14,220
that make sense? It
does. It

776
00:39:14,220 --> 00:39:16,980
does. So
what was happening with me

777
00:39:16,980 --> 00:39:19,520
is because I had no manual
and didn't understand the

778
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,160
tracking console because I
just started like day

779
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,500
before is it screwed up
all my queues every time I

780
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:27,920
would make a little after
Tom told me that.

781
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,040
Fortunately,
it was the middle of the

782
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,700
night in California and he
was in the office the next

783
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,720
day. So
that worked out. So

784
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,560
then, you know, there was
hog hog hog hog. So

785
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:43,500
and of course I guess my
most people know me as

786
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:46,300
sort of the original hog
training guy because I, you

787
00:39:46,308 --> 00:39:49,100
know, for ever long I
worked for a while for

788
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:51,960
years or whatever. And,
you know, they would like

789
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,880
it in those guys in the
UK. And

790
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,120
that was a lot of
consoles, you know, like

791
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,540
Bob was selling those
things like popcorn. Crazy.

792
00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:02,700
Crazy. I
mean, I remember the LDI

793
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:07,020
shows were just like, just
mayhem, like just crowds of

794
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:09,020
people looking to get on
that console. Right.

795
00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:12,020
Yeah. What
a fun time it was though.

796
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:14,380
Yeah.
I mean, for such a little

797
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:18,240
pathogeny, I still tell
people, you know, we got

798
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,800
the Grand Amai and all
this stuff with a hog had

799
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,560
its entire operating system
on one floppy disc. I

800
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,480
know. Isn't
that incredible? You

801
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,740
know, and this show, I got
tons of things about the

802
00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:33,680
hog bite one, one time
Arnold Tarrami was doing

803
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,120
Neil Diamond and every time
that he would save this,

804
00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:41,840
the board would crash
because the guys who

805
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,520
programmed it, I guess, not
to throw them under the

806
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,980
bus, but they never thought
that anybody would be a

807
00:40:46,980 --> 00:40:50,800
show big enough to get to
a second floppy disc. So

808
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,580
when it needed a second,
hilarious, big crack. Well,

809
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:57,600
I don't know if I get
that. They

810
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,220
realized that you had to
do it to you for a second

811
00:41:00,220 --> 00:41:03,240
flop. But
the way Arnold programmed

812
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:06,640
the show was one giant key
list and they were a

813
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,840
multiple key list kind of
mentality. So

814
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,600
when it got to the meeting
of floppy, it didn't know

815
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,320
to ask for a floppy within
this key list. I'm

816
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,360
sorry I'm being right
there, but now it's all

817
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,800
good because the key list
was so large, it didn't

818
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,900
know to split that key
list in half and put the

819
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:24,860
first half on a floppy in
the second half on the

820
00:41:24,860 --> 00:41:27,920
second block. So
it would crash. Yeah.

821
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,180
So, you know, those were
the kind of things that

822
00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:32,920
not only taught me how to
deal with it and for me,

823
00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:34,420
it was fun. You
know, you go down there at

824
00:41:34,420 --> 00:41:36,560
three in the morning,
everybody's freaking out and

825
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,140
you're calling up them and
you know, flying people

826
00:41:39,140 --> 00:41:41,940
like, oh, hold on, hold
on. Yeah.

827
00:41:42,220 --> 00:41:45,540
And they do an update and
they upload it, which only

828
00:41:45,540 --> 00:41:48,140
took two hours to upload
and two hours to download

829
00:41:48,140 --> 00:41:50,080
at that time. It's
a different time. Yeah,

830
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,580
different time. Yeah,
you're in a hotel on a

831
00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:58,180
dial up going, and you're
downloading an update to

832
00:41:58,180 --> 00:42:01,880
your dog too. So
then I'll finish my career

833
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,060
story and then we can talk
about something. So

834
00:42:04,060 --> 00:42:06,620
then I went back
freelancing for a number of

835
00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:09,040
years and I was fortunate
to work with some people

836
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,140
like John Tadesco on Batman
and things like that and

837
00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:16,960
my career really took off.
But

838
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,740
then, you know, I got
married and decided to have

839
00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:23,140
a kid and, you know,
things change and and Frank

840
00:42:23,140 --> 00:42:25,640
Montero and Eric Lodercogna
and said, hey, we're

841
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,320
launching this new console
for the Maxis and, you

842
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,020
know, we need somebody to
do support. And

843
00:42:31,028 --> 00:42:33,020
I said, sure. So
I flew down to Martin,

844
00:42:33,860 --> 00:42:36,260
looked at the console and
it was basically a case

845
00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:39,160
console. And
I said, well, you know, I

846
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,560
got some suggestions for
changes. You

847
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,420
know, I wasn't in charge
of doing the software or

848
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:46,040
anything and Matthias talked
a lot about, you know,

849
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,680
aren't the international and
all that, how that all

850
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,640
happened. But
I said, you know, I think

851
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,840
we can make this thing
really big. So

852
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,760
went to work for them and
hired Matthias shortly after

853
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,140
and, you know, did a lot
of, wrote a lot of

854
00:43:00,140 --> 00:43:04,160
software specifications for
the guys in Denmark to do

855
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,620
it. Yeah.
The guys in Denmark was a

856
00:43:06,620 --> 00:43:10,040
guy, Christian Krauser, who
was instrumental in

857
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,620
launching that console over
there. And

858
00:43:12,620 --> 00:43:15,440
I thought it was a great
console. It

859
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,200
had some hiccups, especially
in the hard world world,

860
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,600
the hardware world, which,
you know, kind of caused

861
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,060
it to fizzle. But
for a while we were ahead

862
00:43:27,060 --> 00:43:28,780
of the grand amai, you
know. Yeah.

863
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,280
Yeah. No,
it was almost a little

864
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,800
ahead of its time in a
sense, you know, with some

865
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,180
of the concepts and stuff.
But

866
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:40,960
yeah, yeah, it's an
interesting story, the whole

867
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,460
Max's thing. Yeah,
we were trying to do too

868
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:49,100
much dual processors and
having the 3D visualizer

869
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:54,040
built in and yeah, it off
too much. And,

870
00:43:54,620 --> 00:43:56,780
you know, it just didn't
work out, but it's still a

871
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:58,720
great software platform now.
They

872
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,060
got the hardware, new
hardware and the Lation

873
00:44:01,060 --> 00:44:04,420
took it over. Yeah.
I love the M series. It

874
00:44:04,420 --> 00:44:07,060
actually, I'm not a
programmer anymore. I

875
00:44:07,060 --> 00:44:09,340
can't program the grand
amai. I'm

876
00:44:09,340 --> 00:44:10,700
only an LV. That's
wild. This

877
00:44:10,707 --> 00:44:13,020
is a man now. That's
wild. Good

878
00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:14,960
for you. You
got better. Right.

879
00:44:15,220 --> 00:44:17,920
By, you know, I don't want
any of my producers with

880
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,580
less than that. But
yeah, when you could

881
00:44:19,580 --> 00:44:21,980
program an LV, people want
you to double do you.

882
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,220
Yeah.
And I prefer being an LV

883
00:44:25,220 --> 00:44:28,080
and having a programmer
that I can collaborate

884
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,260
with. Yeah.
You have a couple of

885
00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:32,580
corporate events that I do
every year that I program

886
00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:35,400
myself on my end to go.
I'm

887
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:40,040
about to buy an NX and NX
to upgrade finally. Cause

888
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,940
that is my baby and that's
what I program. Yeah.

889
00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:44,760
Yeah. You
know, it's funny when I

890
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,460
think about like the Maxis
or, you know, some of the

891
00:44:49,460 --> 00:44:54,000
other, the case console,
the, what the hell is the

892
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,940
Israeli one called that I'm
blanking? Compulite.

893
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,520
Yeah. The
animator. When

894
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,640
I think about some of
those consoles, like how

895
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,100
much better could they have
been if you could sell

896
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:06,800
them for 75, 80 grand?
Like

897
00:45:06,808 --> 00:45:09,200
consoles are selling for
today. Like

898
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,280
a $75 ,000 Maxis. What
could it have done? You

899
00:45:13,288 --> 00:45:15,740
know what I mean? And
if Matias is listening to

900
00:45:15,740 --> 00:45:18,480
this, Matias's head is
spinning going, oh my God,

901
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:21,460
what I could do with 75
grand to sell a console.

902
00:45:21,940 --> 00:45:25,040
So
the formula of buying a

903
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,480
console and giving free
software forever is a hard

904
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,320
business model. It
is. Yeah.

905
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,120
It's tough. That's
always been the big problem

906
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,940
right now. Random
A is selling threes faster

907
00:45:35,940 --> 00:45:38,540
than they can possibly make
them. Yeah.

908
00:45:38,540 --> 00:45:41,800
So they've got that revenue
coming in. That's

909
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,300
always the challenge that
people want to buy the

910
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:46,860
console and they want to
get all the software

911
00:45:46,860 --> 00:45:49,980
updates, infinity for fruit.
Yeah.

912
00:45:50,759 --> 00:45:53,100
Well, again, I think that's
a price thing. Like

913
00:45:53,100 --> 00:45:55,460
maybe they could change the
business model and say,

914
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:59,860
okay, new consoles are 40
grand, but you pay 9 .95

915
00:45:59,860 --> 00:46:02,460
every time we do a major
software release or

916
00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:05,400
whatever, right? So
I guess it's six or one

917
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,080
half dozen is the other
one, right? Yeah.

918
00:46:08,620 --> 00:46:12,820
And somebody will try that
with just subscription date

919
00:46:12,820 --> 00:46:15,780
and consoles and it didn't
go over too well, but you

920
00:46:15,780 --> 00:46:18,160
know, who knows? Well,
and then you end up with

921
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,480
consoles all over the world
that are different versions

922
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,680
and stuff and you go to
do a show and somebody

923
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,780
didn't pay for the upgrade
and now, yeah, so that's

924
00:46:26,780 --> 00:46:29,540
another problem. But
yeah, I totally understand

925
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:32,160
that's the one thing that
I guess people don't really

926
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,840
talk about when people
complain that why isn't MA

927
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,960
380000 dollars? Because
I can never answer that. I

928
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,580
look at it and go, okay,
you got a BMW right there

929
00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:46,220
and you got a lighting
console over here and

930
00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:48,840
they're the same price. I
don't get it. You

931
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,820
know, something's missing
here. Yeah,

932
00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:53,240
we are paying for that
software development for

933
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:56,940
life in the console. Yeah.
That's certainly the missing

934
00:46:56,940 --> 00:46:59,700
component in that
conversation for sure. And

935
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:04,280
that is no cheat feat is
I don't have any idea of

936
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,520
MA and how many code
writers they have, but

937
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,880
yeah, we only had a few
on Maxis. They

938
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,180
probably have dozens and
dozens. Yeah.

939
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:16,260
Yeah. Have
you paid any attention to

940
00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:18,500
the AVO stuff? Like,
do you have any thoughts

941
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:20,940
on that D series stuff?
You

942
00:47:20,948 --> 00:47:25,280
know, you know, it's fine
because my first rock and

943
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,160
roll console after doing
some concerts after leaving

944
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,540
the theater was a QM 500.
Yeah,

945
00:47:31,540 --> 00:47:33,640
everyone. If
you're old enough to

946
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,920
remember the QM 500,
especially in the old one

947
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,260
where there was a drawer
and you had a pin matrix

948
00:47:38,260 --> 00:47:40,840
in there. Yeah.
Like that's how you did

949
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,160
the sunmasters. It
was like a little grid and

950
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,320
you put them in the pens.
I

951
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,820
remember half the type
opened them up and they

952
00:47:46,820 --> 00:47:49,600
was like so much blow and
cocaine in there. That's

953
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:50,780
what I was just going to
say. I

954
00:47:50,788 --> 00:47:53,900
was going to say, wasn't
that a drawer for lines of

955
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:55,500
blow? That's
pretty much. That's

956
00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:57,860
what I usually saw in them
whenever I saw the drawer

957
00:47:57,860 --> 00:47:59,920
open. If
you were in the drugs, you

958
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:04,240
couldn't just sniff those
pin, you know, and got it.

959
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,840
That
was another reason I wasn't

960
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:07,620
really much of a concert
guy. I

961
00:48:07,620 --> 00:48:10,100
just never been into the
drug scene. Yeah.

962
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:15,280
You know, throughout my
life, I like doing like

963
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,540
television now because it's,
you know, a little hate to

964
00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:22,680
say this about got a
little less sleazy and in

965
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,060
the way people go out of
course the content business

966
00:48:25,060 --> 00:48:27,780
changed a lot. It's
very much so. Yeah.

967
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:29,460
So much. But
you know, back in the day,

968
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,420
I didn't like, you know,
oh, I'll tell you later

969
00:48:33,420 --> 00:48:34,940
how much I'm going to pay
you. What

970
00:48:34,940 --> 00:48:38,160
do you mean you don't want
to sign a agreement with

971
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,780
me for my services? Yeah.
Oh, you know, well, and I

972
00:48:42,780 --> 00:48:45,400
won't say who, but one
concert I did do a few

973
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,980
tours and one you can get
your per diem and blow if

974
00:48:48,980 --> 00:48:51,300
you wanted. Oh
my God. Instead

975
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:52,800
of unreal. That's
unreal. I'd

976
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,840
say, I'd take the cash and
you go, oh, you're just

977
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,740
going to come back here
and buy it from me. So,

978
00:48:56,780 --> 00:48:58,400
you know, the production
editor. Wow.

979
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,460
On the floor. Yeah.
That's unreal. So

980
00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:03,480
that, that one really
wasn't my scene. And

981
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,920
that was ending by the
time I really got into it

982
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,060
in the early 90s. But
yeah, I'm doing the

983
00:49:09,060 --> 00:49:13,660
television stuff now. I
do somehow I've become like

984
00:49:13,660 --> 00:49:17,540
one of the main guys
combat sports with talking

985
00:49:17,540 --> 00:49:20,380
about seeing and they did
HVL boxing. The

986
00:49:20,380 --> 00:49:23,160
gig were loading today. The
Peacock Theater is bare

987
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,320
knuckle fighting
championships. Oh,

988
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,200
wow. Which
is big up and coming fight

989
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,440
league where they don't
wear gloves and they just

990
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,080
beat each other up to a
point. Yeah.

991
00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:35,600
Yeah. BKFC.
Yeah. It's

992
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,840
sort of the, I like to
see if UFC is not brutal

993
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,560
enough for you. BKFC
is. I

994
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,080
know it's, it's funny
because I'm a huge UFC

995
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,940
fan. I
have been since the very,

996
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,180
very beginning of time when
they were only in like

997
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:52,840
Alabama and West Virginia
and stuff, you know, and

998
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,680
I'm just a massive, it's
not in hockey or my two

999
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,000
favorite sports and motor
sports, of course. And

1000
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,220
but the BKFC thing is just
a little too violent for

1001
00:50:05,220 --> 00:50:07,520
me. You
know, it's just especially

1002
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,760
girls like when Paige Van
Zandt, the beautiful blonde

1003
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,740
that she is when she went
and started doing this BKFC

1004
00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:16,820
thing. I
was like, yeah, it's not

1005
00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:18,700
sexy. Beautiful
on the way and gets

1006
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:21,980
pummeled in the face. Come
back three months later for

1007
00:50:21,980 --> 00:50:23,280
a fight and she's
beautiful. Get

1008
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,900
some classic surgeons. Yeah.
How's that working? Yeah.

1009
00:50:26,940 --> 00:50:29,500
Yeah. That's
so how did that happen?

1010
00:50:29,660 --> 00:50:30,860
How'd
you get, how'd you become

1011
00:50:30,860 --> 00:50:35,960
known as like the sort of
OG of, of combat sports?

1012
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,040
Yeah.
So that story is, it could

1013
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,260
be Jason Robinson actually.
WWE.

1014
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Jason, I go way back. I
don't know. I

1015
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,800
think we worked together on
Farm Aid 5 and I want to

1016
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,260
say like 1992, two kids.
Oh,

1017
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,200
wow. Jeff
Rabbits and, uh, and Jason

1018
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,740
working for Bandit. Yeah.
And, you know, we really

1019
00:50:59,740 --> 00:51:02,360
became really good friends
at that point and stayed

1020
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,020
friends and worked together
over the years and, you

1021
00:51:05,020 --> 00:51:09,820
know, he, he went to
wrestling and, and, um, he

1022
00:51:09,820 --> 00:51:14,780
got connected up, um, with
top right boxing around

1023
00:51:14,780 --> 00:51:19,160
2011. And
they wanted to upgrade

1024
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,300
their, their show. Basically
boxing was very simple.

1025
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:23,840
Just
light the ring, take four

1026
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,680
color lights, point your
left the camera during the

1027
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,540
commercial. That
was what, yeah. Yeah.

1028
00:51:28,860 --> 00:51:31,680
For a decade. Um,
and top ring was really

1029
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,220
interesting, evolving the
product. So

1030
00:51:34,220 --> 00:51:36,360
they got in touch with
Jason and Jason was doing

1031
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,980
WWE. So
Jason likes very helping

1032
00:51:38,980 --> 00:51:42,420
them out to upgrade their
product and eventually led

1033
00:51:42,420 --> 00:51:44,620
to them saying, Hey, we
just want you guys to take

1034
00:51:44,620 --> 00:51:48,640
over our show. Wow.
So that sort of started

1035
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,620
Crossfade design more or
less. Jason

1036
00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:52,760
and I had been kicking
around for a while starting

1037
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,940
a design company, you know,
just to, just to funnel

1038
00:51:55,940 --> 00:51:58,380
through the payrolls and
the liability and all that

1039
00:51:58,380 --> 00:52:01,520
stuff. So
we did a 2011 him and I

1040
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:07,320
started Crossfade design and
then shortly after, um, we

1041
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,160
decided, you know, we got
to talk about Eric Wade

1042
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,560
and Eric joined in and
joined the company. He

1043
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,420
was had his own little
company, which we merged

1044
00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:18,980
together with that. And
then we had another friend

1045
00:52:18,980 --> 00:52:22,520
of his, uh, uh, that John
early, that's that's

1046
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,260
actually a surgeon who came
in sort of handle more of

1047
00:52:26,260 --> 00:52:30,240
the business stuff and so
forth financials. And

1048
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,400
so anyway, top ring boxing,
we actually sort of created

1049
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,220
a company around doing that
show since we were able to

1050
00:52:39,220 --> 00:52:41,520
sign a multi -year deal
with them. And

1051
00:52:41,528 --> 00:52:43,960
very cool. Uh,
bought, bought the equipment

1052
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,700
and we always, oh, we
might buy a few consoles

1053
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:48,620
or whatever with them. We
bought the whole system

1054
00:52:48,620 --> 00:52:52,040
and, and we've been in
with them since 2011. So

1055
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,800
let's at 13 years. Yeah,
good for you. What

1056
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,260
a successful run. Yeah.
From them doing, uh, there,

1057
00:52:58,380 --> 00:53:02,280
some of their own stuff on
Latin TV to HBO. We,

1058
00:53:02,740 --> 00:53:06,700
and we worked with HBO and
now we're, uh, top ranks

1059
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:10,280
tied in with ESPN. So
copyright on ESPN, uh,

1060
00:53:10,620 --> 00:53:13,480
either on last Saturday
nights or on the, on the

1061
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,960
plus app. Uh,
so Jason and I should

1062
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,960
design the overall look
together. He's

1063
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,880
the production designer. I
go out, I handle it on a

1064
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,600
day to day basis and we
provide all the equipment

1065
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,120
for that. Very
cool. That's,

1066
00:53:27,220 --> 00:53:30,840
that's, and then I like to
say that we really, you

1067
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,600
know, took boxing to more
and added more artistic

1068
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,600
flair to it, you know, uh,
brought in a lot, things

1069
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,120
like Sharpies into the, to
the look and nobody really

1070
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,700
done that before us and
started lighting the

1071
00:53:43,700 --> 00:53:45,960
audience. So
it wasn't just a smoky

1072
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,600
room where it was dark in
the background and was lit.

1073
00:53:51,260 --> 00:53:52,900
We
brought a lot of, you

1074
00:53:52,900 --> 00:53:57,060
know, LED technology in or,
you know, LED strings where

1075
00:53:57,060 --> 00:53:59,760
we start showing graphics
and, you know, a lot of

1076
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,440
the other people have
started using the same

1077
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,620
thing, but we sort of
headed that up. I'm

1078
00:54:04,620 --> 00:54:07,780
wondering too though, like
if the rise of wrestling

1079
00:54:07,780 --> 00:54:12,320
and the rise of, of MMA
UFC specifically probably

1080
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,540
pushed them to become more
of an entertainment event,

1081
00:54:17,100 --> 00:54:21,960
not just like you said, a
lighted ring and smoky

1082
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,500
crowd. Yeah,
definitely. I

1083
00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:27,160
think they saw their boxing
been, you know, declining

1084
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,520
in viewership for a long
time. Yeah.

1085
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,420
I think they saw this in
top rank was really, you

1086
00:54:32,420 --> 00:54:35,880
know, their, their bosses
were smart in this way.

1087
00:54:35,980 --> 00:54:37,160
They
said, look, we've got to

1088
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:38,960
increase our production
value. You

1089
00:54:38,968 --> 00:54:42,120
know, younger viewers, they
want to see, you know,

1090
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,020
flashy, flashy and yeah,
the walk -ins and all that

1091
00:54:47,020 --> 00:54:49,020
kind of stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. Of

1092
00:54:49,028 --> 00:54:51,660
course, what the sports
betting thing is, is the

1093
00:54:51,660 --> 00:54:55,380
whole, another phenomenon
of, you know, that's

1094
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:58,060
changing our industry with
the advertising of all

1095
00:54:58,060 --> 00:55:01,620
these betting apps and
stuff. Yeah.

1096
00:55:02,500 --> 00:55:05,000
Yeah. That's,
that's cool. That's

1097
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,380
interesting. I
didn't know you guys were

1098
00:55:06,380 --> 00:55:08,060
that tied in with top
rank. That's

1099
00:55:08,060 --> 00:55:09,680
really cool. Yeah.
Yeah. We've

1100
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,140
had a great relationship
with them. They're,

1101
00:55:12,140 --> 00:55:16,080
they're management, they're
producers and their owner,

1102
00:55:17,020 --> 00:55:20,560
Bobby, I mean, they're just
fantastic people. Yeah.

1103
00:55:20,620 --> 00:55:24,040
They understand the value
of production. I

1104
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,140
mean, you know, it's not a
massive budget thing. Yeah.

1105
00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:30,020
Eric's, we're prospering
Eric's doing Janet Jackson

1106
00:55:30,020 --> 00:55:31,920
right now. I'm
probably talked about that

1107
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,920
a little bit. Yeah.
I mean, that budget blows

1108
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,120
us out of the water, but
for us, it's consistency.

1109
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,320
We,
we have done a year in,

1110
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,760
year out. It's
like a tour system that

1111
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,800
never comes apart and we
do, you know, 24 fights a

1112
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,300
year with them. Yeah.
So if I can ask you and

1113
00:55:50,300 --> 00:55:53,760
you can tell me none of
my business, but is it a

1114
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,740
proper company or is it
like a collaborative where

1115
00:55:56,740 --> 00:55:59,100
you're all doing your own
outside stuff too? And

1116
00:55:59,107 --> 00:56:02,560
then occasionally stuff
within the collaborative.

1117
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,060
No,
no, we're a proper company.

1118
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,100
We
kind of started out more

1119
00:56:07,100 --> 00:56:09,540
as a collaborative design
thing. Let's

1120
00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:13,340
just share some stuff. But
now, you know, we are a

1121
00:56:13,340 --> 00:56:17,100
company who, you know, we
have a lot of equipment.

1122
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:18,680
We
have two offices, one

1123
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,540
outside Louisville area and
one in Dallas, Eric is

1124
00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:24,460
based. Yeah.
And we've managed to

1125
00:56:24,460 --> 00:56:28,660
acquire a lot of equipment
over the week. I

1126
00:56:28,660 --> 00:56:31,900
mean, I don't know. We
have well over a dozen

1127
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:35,020
grand MAs and we have
media servers and, you

1128
00:56:35,020 --> 00:56:38,460
know, a lot of front of
house gear is where we

1129
00:56:38,460 --> 00:56:40,160
started. That's
what we really want to be

1130
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,440
our business model. But
as it came along, we would

1131
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:47,540
say, Hey, you know, we can
buy, you know, two dozen

1132
00:56:47,540 --> 00:56:49,740
Sharpies and put them on
this gig. And

1133
00:56:49,747 --> 00:56:52,120
after a year, they paid
themselves off. Well,

1134
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:53,920
yeah, I mean, if you're
renting the exact same

1135
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,940
thing every show for two
years or three years or

1136
00:56:56,940 --> 00:57:00,120
whatever, it makes a heck
of a lot of sense. We're

1137
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,740
two things. One
is our business model is

1138
00:57:02,740 --> 00:57:05,220
that we're not a rental
house. That's

1139
00:57:05,220 --> 00:57:08,800
just really go by a
thousand very likes because

1140
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,620
we hope that we rent them.
Yeah.

1141
00:57:10,780 --> 00:57:13,540
No, we don't want to be
that even if we had the

1142
00:57:13,540 --> 00:57:16,600
resources and yeah, you're
buying for a specific need.

1143
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,720
Right.
And we are we we number

1144
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,300
one want to be turnkey as
a business. Mm

1145
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:23,740
hmm. That
makes sense. We

1146
00:57:23,740 --> 00:57:26,740
want there still enough
producers out there who

1147
00:57:26,740 --> 00:57:29,720
want to come and say
design as a show. Here's

1148
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,980
a check. Provide
all the gear. Provide

1149
00:57:31,980 --> 00:57:34,380
all the crew. All
of it. Yeah.

1150
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,100
And there's still plenty of
those people out there and

1151
00:57:38,100 --> 00:57:40,440
that's what we search out
and maybe it's not the

1152
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,560
biggest tour out there. But
that's our business model.

1153
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,720
And
then if we can buy a

1154
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,100
couple more consoles by
that or some new media

1155
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:54,080
servers or, you know, I
think Eric's being in that

1156
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,200
big Sarah stuff now. Yeah.
Yeah. Well,

1157
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,920
and Eric's also isn't he I
don't remember if it's

1158
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,460
managing or tour managing
or something with Janet.

1159
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:04,980
Yeah,
I don't know what he calls

1160
00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:08,020
himself, but he essentially
is producing the whole

1161
00:58:08,020 --> 00:58:10,340
thing. Yeah.
That's wild. The

1162
00:58:10,340 --> 00:58:12,800
model of the turnkey. And
you know, it's interesting

1163
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,900
because both him and I
have spent way too much

1164
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:20,160
time being business men
now. Yeah.

1165
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:21,680
You know, figuring out, you
know, how we're going to

1166
00:58:21,687 --> 00:58:25,280
finance this like so, you
know, we just purchased a

1167
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,600
whole slew of Mac ones.
Love

1168
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:32,660
those things. Yeah.
And again, makes sense for

1169
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:34,360
what we need. But
you know, helps where

1170
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,220
you're doing turkey and
you're the designer and you

1171
00:58:36,220 --> 00:58:38,040
can expect what you want.
Correct.

1172
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,300
Yeah. You
know, we work that into

1173
00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:45,080
our designs and yeah, we
don't have to, you know,

1174
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,740
upstage into the world and
PRD of the world. They

1175
00:58:47,740 --> 00:58:51,280
want all the LDs that send
their show out the bid.

1176
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,000
They
have to provide this and

1177
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,420
they want the newest latest
greatest. Well,

1178
00:58:55,460 --> 00:58:58,380
we can buy these things
for the Janet tour and

1179
00:58:58,380 --> 00:59:01,180
then use them on, you
know, a fight like thing.

1180
00:59:01,340 --> 00:59:03,180
Yeah.
After it makes nothing but

1181
00:59:03,180 --> 00:59:04,900
sense. It
makes nothing but sense.

1182
00:59:04,900 --> 00:59:06,980
It's
I would think that based

1183
00:59:06,980 --> 00:59:09,200
on the success of your
model, we're going to see

1184
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,420
other other ones pop up.
Well,

1185
00:59:12,420 --> 00:59:14,880
I probably shouldn't have
said all this because, you

1186
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,220
know, I don't want the
competition, but you know,

1187
00:59:17,340 --> 00:59:21,000
yeah, I think flat. I'm
talking to you. What

1188
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,140
are they saying? The
tation is flattery or

1189
00:59:23,140 --> 00:59:25,120
whatever. Yeah.
I think that's why we feel

1190
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,160
a little bit of boxing
stuff from the other

1191
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,020
people. I've
started doing what we've

1192
00:59:29,020 --> 00:59:32,560
done and yeah. And
you know, and then we move

1193
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:34,320
on and we innovate
something else. And

1194
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,620
that's how we like to do.
But

1195
00:59:36,627 --> 00:59:39,420
yeah, I spend about
probably 50 % of my time,

1196
00:59:39,460 --> 00:59:41,460
you know, being the
president, the president,

1197
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,280
running the business
operation. I

1198
00:59:43,288 --> 00:59:46,140
mean, I got great people
working with us. No,

1199
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:47,780
you know, it's not just me
and Eric. We

1200
00:59:47,780 --> 00:59:51,140
got a great staff of, you
know, bookkeeping people

1201
00:59:51,140 --> 00:59:54,020
and, you know, great kids.
We

1202
00:59:54,020 --> 00:59:56,660
call kids, you know, in
their 20s and 30s,

1203
00:59:56,660 --> 00:59:58,860
including Eric's two sons
of joining. Yeah,

1204
00:59:58,940 --> 01:00:01,420
I was going to say
fantastic. And

1205
01:00:01,420 --> 01:00:03,140
then your kids aren't
involved yet though, right?

1206
01:00:03,820 --> 01:00:05,820
My
kids are not involved. My

1207
01:00:05,820 --> 01:00:08,820
son started out is wanting
to, you know, he started

1208
01:00:08,820 --> 01:00:11,320
going into theater, decided
it really wasn't his thing.

1209
01:00:11,620 --> 01:00:13,780
Yeah.
And and moved on to a

1210
01:00:13,780 --> 01:00:16,780
different career and I'm
very proud of him and what

1211
01:00:16,780 --> 01:00:18,840
he's doing. And
they had any graduates

1212
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,380
school and probably be a
college professor. So

1213
01:00:21,388 --> 01:00:25,140
good for him and my
daughter is she was most

1214
01:00:25,140 --> 01:00:28,400
like kids were in the
theater act and let my

1215
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,140
daughter never wanted to be
tech. She

1216
01:00:30,140 --> 01:00:34,779
was a dancer and now she's
in free met. So

1217
01:00:34,779 --> 01:00:37,140
that's for her. I
need somebody to support me

1218
01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:39,580
and my. Yeah.
Well, it sounds like

1219
01:00:39,580 --> 01:00:43,160
Crossfade might do okay in
that regard. It's

1220
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,480
going to take care of you
really well. You

1221
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,240
know, it's been wildly
successful, honestly, more

1222
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,020
than I ever thought. And
it's really happened without

1223
01:00:51,020 --> 01:00:52,460
a lot of conscious effort.
We're

1224
01:00:52,460 --> 01:00:55,540
just like, Hey, we need to
get a raise. Let's

1225
01:00:55,540 --> 01:00:57,780
not let them let's just
buy him, you know, by the

1226
01:00:57,780 --> 01:01:00,360
way, you know, oh, we
need, you know, a lunch

1227
01:01:00,368 --> 01:01:02,180
and movie, I like for this
show. Why

1228
01:01:02,180 --> 01:01:04,320
should we run and then,
you know, we'll go out and

1229
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,520
supplement everything, you
know, with trust and motors

1230
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,240
and whatever we own a
certain amount of that

1231
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,240
stuff too. But,
you know, we can't do a

1232
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,780
tour besides and Janet with
our inventory, but we

1233
01:01:12,780 --> 01:01:16,160
partner with one of the
big companies. Yeah,

1234
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,480
you just tell them we need
this, this, this and this,

1235
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,040
we're going to supply this,
this, this and this and it

1236
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,680
works out. Yeah.
And the other thing we got

1237
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:29,040
into over the years is
some consulting. Where

1238
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,940
we've done, you know, we
did like the scoreboard for

1239
01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:35,660
Chicago Bulls United Center.
They

1240
01:01:35,660 --> 01:01:38,100
came to us and came to
Eric and said, Hey, we

1241
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:40,020
don't want just the normal
scoreboard design and

1242
01:01:40,020 --> 01:01:42,960
something really cool. So
we did it all in, you

1243
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,860
know, 3D animation and
they've made it multi -part

1244
01:01:45,860 --> 01:01:48,900
scoreboard with CO2 and
lights and it wasn't just

1245
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:51,640
this too, but it
dynamically moves in

1246
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,940
different parts and stuff.
That's

1247
01:01:53,940 --> 01:01:56,680
interesting because there's
companies that do just

1248
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,300
scoreboards like that's
their business, their entire

1249
01:02:00,300 --> 01:02:03,080
business. Yeah.
And they can, you know,

1250
01:02:03,100 --> 01:02:05,580
nothing against them. They
tend to be a little stale,

1251
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,200
right? You
know, just the same kind

1252
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,620
of over and have a little
wedge here or whatever. And

1253
01:02:09,620 --> 01:02:11,180
probably just as expensive.
Like

1254
01:02:11,180 --> 01:02:13,960
you probably weren't that
much more money than them

1255
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,360
and it's just 10 times
more exciting. Yeah.

1256
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:19,700
I mean, I like the thing.
So

1257
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:22,120
we just, you know, we can
solve it on that. We

1258
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,860
didn't get involved in the
installation of the LEDs or

1259
01:02:25,860 --> 01:02:28,660
anything like that. You
know, another project that

1260
01:02:28,660 --> 01:02:33,220
we worked on right with
Eric, he had kind of, when

1261
01:02:33,220 --> 01:02:35,200
he joined the company, he
brought this along, which

1262
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:40,280
was Little Caesars Arena in
Detroit was building. I

1263
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,100
don't know if you've seen
any of the pictures of

1264
01:02:42,100 --> 01:02:43,620
this. There's
really some innovative stuff

1265
01:02:43,620 --> 01:02:46,820
going on there. They
have a 10 by 10 tension

1266
01:02:46,820 --> 01:02:49,700
grid, a rigging grid in
there. So

1267
01:02:49,700 --> 01:02:52,000
there's 10 by 10 squares.
There's

1268
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,800
like 1000 of them. Wow.
And you can rig down

1269
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,340
through them. And,
you know, that fascinated

1270
01:02:56,340 --> 01:02:58,600
for me being from the
theater and, you know, my

1271
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:03,260
technical side. But
Eric decided, hey, let's

1272
01:03:03,260 --> 01:03:05,100
put strip lights on the
bottom of it. And

1273
01:03:05,107 --> 01:03:08,080
he went to Loder and they
made a custom thing and we

1274
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,700
underlit the entire grid.
So

1275
01:03:11,700 --> 01:03:16,240
now it's like pixels in a
video. Oh,

1276
01:03:16,660 --> 01:03:19,220
wow. With,
and so it's the entire

1277
01:03:19,220 --> 01:03:22,060
ceiling, except where the
scoreboard is, and be

1278
01:03:22,060 --> 01:03:24,560
mapped and we've done
American flag and Chevy.

1279
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:26,680
Well,
that's incredible. What

1280
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:30,460
a cool idea. Yeah.
And then also there we did

1281
01:03:30,460 --> 01:03:36,440
a, something of the 600
foot wall of metal that

1282
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,660
was production mapped in
the lobby. Oh,

1283
01:03:40,140 --> 01:03:42,300
so is that open now or?
Yeah,

1284
01:03:42,420 --> 01:03:43,680
that's been open for years.
Yeah.

1285
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:45,900
Oh, distance play and that
red hop. Oh,

1286
01:03:45,940 --> 01:03:47,640
okay. Oh,
yeah. I

1287
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:49,560
haven't seen anything on
that. Yeah.

1288
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,700
There was a couple articles
and PLS and and lighting

1289
01:03:52,700 --> 01:03:54,320
in South America on it.
Interesting.

1290
01:03:54,580 --> 01:03:56,840
And check it out. It
was a pretty cool project

1291
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:00,400
and sounds like it for
years with all, you know,

1292
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,180
it's totally network within
their building and multiple

1293
01:04:03,180 --> 01:04:05,240
random days. And
it's really cool because

1294
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,620
you go anywhere in the
building. You

1295
01:04:07,620 --> 01:04:12,620
can say, okay, that's even
that 4156 pull up the ID

1296
01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:16,440
department back to 156 into
the lighting network. And

1297
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,360
then I can plug a console
in and program a shot.

1298
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:21,300
Nice.
Yeah. That's

1299
01:04:21,300 --> 01:04:23,540
very nice. Yeah,
it's amazing when you get

1300
01:04:23,540 --> 01:04:26,180
some lighting people
involved in the design of

1301
01:04:26,180 --> 01:04:27,460
a space like that, right?
It

1302
01:04:27,460 --> 01:04:29,700
becomes very practical.
Yeah.

1303
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,940
Well, it's yeah, it's when
you go in these places,

1304
01:04:33,060 --> 01:04:36,440
you get sick of seeing the
same mistakes over and over

1305
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,880
again. Churches
are the worst. No

1306
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,160
offense church. But
like they just dusted off

1307
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,920
the last plan they had. So
all the mistakes from the

1308
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,240
last church they did are
now in this church too.

1309
01:04:47,740 --> 01:04:49,040
Well,
aren't theaters pretty

1310
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:50,960
similar in that regard?
Yeah,

1311
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,100
you've got years of
mistakes just sort of piled

1312
01:04:54,100 --> 01:04:56,640
on top of each other.
Exactly.

1313
01:04:57,020 --> 01:04:59,860
The same thing over and
over. You're

1314
01:04:59,860 --> 01:05:02,140
still doing some theater
stuff, right? Yeah.

1315
01:05:02,220 --> 01:05:04,260
I mean, it's not a main
part of our business, but

1316
01:05:04,260 --> 01:05:07,580
when I'll search it out,
one thing's come along. I

1317
01:05:07,580 --> 01:05:09,940
like to do, you know, some
theater consulting and it

1318
01:05:09,940 --> 01:05:12,160
comes back to me. I
mean, the new thing is

1319
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,260
most of stuff we're doing
now, we're trying to

1320
01:05:14,260 --> 01:05:16,180
encourage people to just
get away from the demo.

1321
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:17,420
You
all do that. Yeah.

1322
01:05:17,820 --> 01:05:20,080
You know, just straight
LED, get yourself some

1323
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,320
relays in there. Boom.
You still, I mean, it's

1324
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,780
for starters, it seems a
fortune. Yeah.

1325
01:05:26,660 --> 01:05:29,860
And, you know, it used to
be that the giant company

1326
01:05:29,860 --> 01:05:33,180
with the three letters
dominated that industry and

1327
01:05:33,180 --> 01:05:35,380
you just had to use them
for network. Yeah.

1328
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,960
For demo. And
now, you know, I won't

1329
01:05:37,968 --> 01:05:39,800
offend anybody. So
I don't say that. But,

1330
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,480
you know, now with other
choices like pathway and

1331
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,700
stuff like that, we can do
all kinds of cool stuff.

1332
01:05:45,980 --> 01:05:47,080
We're,
you know, we have nodes

1333
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,340
everywhere and you just use
your LED, Lick those or

1334
01:05:50,340 --> 01:05:52,240
moving lights or whatever,
plug them in. And

1335
01:05:52,247 --> 01:05:55,160
it frankly sometimes would
make it a little too, too

1336
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,400
flexible for people. Yeah.
And I go back into a

1337
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,940
theater a year later and
they're still using the

1338
01:06:00,940 --> 01:06:03,160
exact route plot that I
laid out because they don't

1339
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,300
want it readdressing me.
Yeah.

1340
01:06:06,340 --> 01:06:08,420
That's interesting. You
know, somebody will come

1341
01:06:08,420 --> 01:06:11,800
along that will appreciate
that flexibility. Yeah.

1342
01:06:12,460 --> 01:06:14,440
Yeah. I
mean theaters really do

1343
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,540
seem to be becoming a lot
more state of the art now,

1344
01:06:17,660 --> 01:06:20,140
like even, you know,
through my company, Gear

1345
01:06:20,140 --> 01:06:23,600
Source, we, we, uh, every
once in a while, we'll get

1346
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,900
like, you know, the
previous version of luster,

1347
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,140
we'll get 500 of them
available because somebody's

1348
01:06:29,140 --> 01:06:31,800
upgrading to the new
luster. And

1349
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,520
those will go out to a
bunch of theaters or

1350
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:38,360
whatever who are going from
old, you know, lamp based

1351
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,280
source for us to lusters.
And

1352
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,100
that's a huge jump for
them. And

1353
01:06:43,107 --> 01:06:46,160
I'm just seeing it more
and more, you know, along

1354
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,500
with churches, they're
stepping up their game too.

1355
01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:52,100
Well,
and the less power you

1356
01:06:52,100 --> 01:06:56,260
need and if theater person
that was, you know, trained

1357
01:06:56,260 --> 01:06:59,880
in theater lighting, it was
a tough change from me

1358
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:02,460
too. I
mean, to go, you know, the

1359
01:07:02,468 --> 01:07:05,280
source for was a woman
fuzzing for me for a long

1360
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:09,040
time with the, you know, a
Roscoe 23 and a founder

1361
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:13,380
effort, you know, and to
go away from that. And,

1362
01:07:13,380 --> 01:07:15,840
you know, we would do that
evolution and moving lights

1363
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,160
too, right? Where
you didn't have to think

1364
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:19,620
about it as much anymore.
You

1365
01:07:19,627 --> 01:07:21,680
know, people would design a
show and they would just

1366
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,080
put a trust and they would
go, you know, wash, wash,

1367
01:07:24,540 --> 01:07:27,600
you know, profile profile,
wash, wash, any crop and

1368
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,200
then figure it out when
they got there. Right.

1369
01:07:30,580 --> 01:07:32,560
Yeah. And
honestly, I made my living

1370
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,300
in the early days being
the guy that figured it

1371
01:07:35,300 --> 01:07:37,920
out for them. Yeah.
Because I came from the

1372
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,600
theater. So
I was taught to visualize

1373
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,600
what your show looked like.
You

1374
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,080
didn't just walk in and
serve flesh and light. I

1375
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,580
was a theater guy. I
was taught in the way we

1376
01:07:48,580 --> 01:07:50,940
were taught was you went
to the library and you

1377
01:07:50,940 --> 01:07:54,120
researched an old painting
or something and got your

1378
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,220
idea of what your show is
going to look like. And

1379
01:07:56,220 --> 01:07:59,160
then you brought that with
that book with you and you

1380
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,460
mixed your color palette
according to that. So

1381
01:08:01,460 --> 01:08:04,920
I mean, it's kind of
theater, slavery, but, you

1382
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,240
know, it was a good lesson
in the way I was taught.

1383
01:08:07,700 --> 01:08:09,700
Yeah.
You know, like, like

1384
01:08:09,700 --> 01:08:12,600
everybody, I mean, I have
three or four mentors in

1385
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,720
my life that, you know,
changed my life. Yeah.

1386
01:08:15,940 --> 01:08:18,740
And with that, when I
learned how to paint with

1387
01:08:18,740 --> 01:08:23,180
light as opposed to being
a technician, it changed my

1388
01:08:23,180 --> 01:08:27,060
career because. I
think being a technical

1389
01:08:27,060 --> 01:08:30,460
person first, I'm not an
RTF artsy designer. There's

1390
01:08:30,460 --> 01:08:32,960
lots of people that are
way more creative than me

1391
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,340
out there. But
what made me successful in

1392
01:08:35,340 --> 01:08:38,560
my career is I was a
pretty good technical guy.

1393
01:08:38,859 --> 01:08:40,340
Yeah.
Pretty little, you know,

1394
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:44,840
artistic guy and I can
make my brain change from

1395
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,340
the artistic to the
programming number crunchy

1396
01:08:48,340 --> 01:08:50,279
and then go back to the
artist. That's

1397
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:53,040
an important fact. Yeah.
That's a big one. One

1398
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,260
way or the other. Yeah.
And I've known, I've known

1399
01:08:56,260 --> 01:08:58,160
them both. You
know, I know a lot of

1400
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,700
them both actually lighting
designers who are just

1401
01:09:00,700 --> 01:09:04,740
completely artists and they
don't realize that the

1402
01:09:04,740 --> 01:09:07,100
things they're asking for
are practically impossible

1403
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:10,800
to do or or technically
stupid. Or

1404
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,819
you have, you know, the
other side of the coin.

1405
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:15,800
You
know, one of my favorite

1406
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:20,840
topics lately has been AI
and just. You

1407
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,060
know, not even just AI in
our industry, I get

1408
01:09:23,060 --> 01:09:25,660
involved in all kinds of
conversations about AI

1409
01:09:25,660 --> 01:09:29,399
related to everything from,
you know, your daily life

1410
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:34,880
to business to automobiles
to whatever space, anything.

1411
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:38,080
And
I'm just extremely intrigued

1412
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:39,620
by it. I'm
a little bit knowledgeable

1413
01:09:39,620 --> 01:09:42,279
about it because I use a
lot of it in my own

1414
01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:45,180
business now and in my own
daily life. But

1415
01:09:45,180 --> 01:09:48,500
what are your thoughts as
far as like, you know,

1416
01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:52,380
there's a lot of concern
about lighting designers,

1417
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:56,020
programmers being replaced.
You

1418
01:09:56,020 --> 01:10:00,120
know, people who are
creative designers being

1419
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,100
replaced. And
I mean, there's some jobs,

1420
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,860
I think in our industry
that are probably kind of

1421
01:10:05,860 --> 01:10:08,920
tedious and probably you're
writing hundreds of lines

1422
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,040
of code that maybe you
won't have to do in the

1423
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,000
future. And
that's probably a benefit,

1424
01:10:13,100 --> 01:10:15,280
not necessarily something
taking your job away

1425
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,340
because you can spend more
time doing something more

1426
01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:21,440
artistic. But
what are your thoughts on

1427
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:24,360
it all? Well,
this is where I feel like

1428
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,840
I'm an old guy and I want
to say get off my lawn,

1429
01:10:27,020 --> 01:10:31,760
you know, because. It's
not uncommon. I've

1430
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,720
not embraced it. Yeah,
I'm not scared of it

1431
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:36,440
either. It's
funny because as I was

1432
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:39,180
walking to the game this
morning, one of those

1433
01:10:39,180 --> 01:10:42,600
autonomous Ubers drive by
with somebody in the back

1434
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,160
and nobody in the front.
And

1435
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,760
I'm like, you know, what?
Yeah,

1436
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:49,940
then, you know, I get it.
I

1437
01:10:49,940 --> 01:10:53,720
had a conversation about a
the other day and, you

1438
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,780
know, it was in reference
to my son who is now, you

1439
01:10:56,780 --> 01:10:59,360
know, creative writer and
he wants to write

1440
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,520
screenplays and novels and
so forth. And

1441
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,340
you know, I think I was I
can put them out and, you

1442
01:11:05,340 --> 01:11:07,880
know, I don't think so.
You

1443
01:11:07,888 --> 01:11:11,220
know, sure things like
nightclub lighting. If

1444
01:11:11,220 --> 01:11:13,580
I was a nightclub lighting
guy, I would be very

1445
01:11:13,580 --> 01:11:16,640
concerned about my job
because, you know, it's

1446
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:20,700
that kind of stuff. I
think in the short term is

1447
01:11:20,700 --> 01:11:23,100
is easy for a I to do.
And

1448
01:11:23,100 --> 01:11:27,100
I, you know, designed the
next lady got out to her

1449
01:11:27,100 --> 01:11:30,420
and come up with some
creative stuff. I

1450
01:11:30,420 --> 01:11:33,800
don't know, you know, I'm
hoping that it won't before

1451
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:38,060
I want to retire. Yeah.
But, you know, I've seen

1452
01:11:38,060 --> 01:11:40,060
some cool stuff. I
mean, I was working on

1453
01:11:40,060 --> 01:11:43,620
boxing the other day with
one of our creative guys

1454
01:11:43,620 --> 01:11:46,260
who handles a lot of the
branding and stuff. And

1455
01:11:46,260 --> 01:11:48,680
he was I was like, oh,
it'd be kind of cool if

1456
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:52,560
we did this sort of a
rooble burn, you know,

1457
01:11:52,780 --> 01:11:55,080
thing with kites and
whatever. And

1458
01:11:55,088 --> 01:11:56,980
he's like, oh, I mean, he
gets out his phone. He

1459
01:11:56,980 --> 01:11:59,580
goes on the A .I. And
chance hands me a set

1460
01:11:59,580 --> 01:12:04,360
design with that. And
I was incredible. That's

1461
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,180
incredible. You
know, I mean, it took like

1462
01:12:07,180 --> 01:12:10,980
30 seconds and it's like a
legit thing. I'm

1463
01:12:10,980 --> 01:12:14,440
like, yeah, that way. Well,
I did the same thing the

1464
01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:17,300
other day with a friend of
mine who he got addicted

1465
01:12:17,300 --> 01:12:20,240
to this particular brand of
bicycle. And

1466
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:21,400
I forget what they're
called. They're

1467
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,760
called like big ass bikes
or something like that.

1468
01:12:24,180 --> 01:12:25,360
And,
you know, they're just

1469
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,720
really cool looking cruiser
bicycles and he's

1470
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,620
electrified them. And
so he bought to himself

1471
01:12:31,620 --> 01:12:34,300
and he put electric motors
in both of them and

1472
01:12:34,300 --> 01:12:36,220
they've become these
incredible bikes and he

1473
01:12:36,220 --> 01:12:38,640
gets stopped on Miami Beach
all the time. Saying,

1474
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,000
hey, where'd you get that
bike? Yeah.

1475
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,760
So he has basically gone
out and bought every used

1476
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,420
one of these that he can
find and he's got like 15

1477
01:12:47,420 --> 01:12:50,760
of them now and put motors
in all of them. And

1478
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,140
I'm like, what the hell do
you need 15 bikes for? And

1479
01:12:53,140 --> 01:12:54,740
he says, I just love them.
And

1480
01:12:54,740 --> 01:12:56,760
so he decided to start.
We're

1481
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:58,920
in South Florida. So
he decided to start a bike

1482
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,580
rental company and he came
up with a name and it's

1483
01:13:01,580 --> 01:13:04,720
called Elite Bike Rentals.
And

1484
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,760
so what he's doing is he's
tying in with concierge is

1485
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,240
at hotels and stuff like
that and he'll deliver the

1486
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,120
bikes and he's charging a
premium price because

1487
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:17,660
they're very sexy bikes and
their e -bikes. And

1488
01:13:17,660 --> 01:13:20,380
so he shows me his
Facebook page and I said,

1489
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:22,960
you have no logo. And
he goes, what do you mean?

1490
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:23,900
And
I said, you can have a

1491
01:13:23,900 --> 01:13:25,560
logo. I
mean, you need t -shirts.

1492
01:13:25,780 --> 01:13:27,680
You
need something to put on a

1493
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,740
brochure in those hotels
and stuff. You

1494
01:13:29,740 --> 01:13:32,020
have to have a logo. Oh,
well, where do I get one

1495
01:13:32,020 --> 01:13:34,360
of those? And
I said, hang on a minute

1496
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,660
and 10 minutes later, I
sent him 10 different

1497
01:13:37,660 --> 01:13:41,160
logos. He
fell in love with one of

1498
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,200
them and said, oh my God,
can I have this? And

1499
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,640
I said, yeah, it's yours
done. And

1500
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,060
he goes, well, who do I
owe money? And

1501
01:13:47,060 --> 01:13:49,840
I'm like, no, I just had
it made by. Yeah,

1502
01:13:49,980 --> 01:13:52,440
because you got to the app
or whatever. Yeah.

1503
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,340
Yeah. That
kind of stuff is cool.

1504
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,500
That
rudimentary stuff. And

1505
01:13:57,500 --> 01:14:00,860
again, I think it's got to
change our world. But

1506
01:14:00,860 --> 01:14:05,240
like in my son's case, you
know, so I don't think

1507
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,580
that I'll write the next
cool novel with AI that

1508
01:14:08,580 --> 01:14:11,160
some creative thing that no
one's ever done. I

1509
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:13,440
mean, you can write a
novel, no doubt. And

1510
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:15,920
we'll see how it pans out.
And,

1511
01:14:16,020 --> 01:14:19,760
you know, I would tend to
disagree with you, Mike,

1512
01:14:19,820 --> 01:14:24,440
just because the thing is
they're becoming sentient

1513
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:28,520
and there's different
opinions on when and how.

1514
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:31,160
And
if AI will become sentient,

1515
01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:34,840
but it will. And
when it becomes and meaning

1516
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,140
it's thinking, feeling, you
know, self expanding and

1517
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:42,940
all of those things, then,
you know, we're going to

1518
01:14:42,940 --> 01:14:45,840
see how far this goes. And
I think that's where

1519
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,100
legislation comes in to
stop it from going too

1520
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:52,020
far. You
know, but haven't we seen

1521
01:14:52,020 --> 01:14:54,400
a lot of movies? I
mean, didn't we watch a

1522
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,300
Terminator? I
mean, come on. I

1523
01:14:56,300 --> 01:14:57,180
know. I
know. I've

1524
01:14:57,180 --> 01:14:59,840
been warned here. No,
I know. I

1525
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:01,460
don't. I
hope it like I said, I'm

1526
01:15:01,460 --> 01:15:03,980
55 now. I'm
hoping I'm retired in this

1527
01:15:03,980 --> 01:15:05,860
business before it gets too
far. You

1528
01:15:05,867 --> 01:15:07,640
know, the younger kids in
the business that worry

1529
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:08,980
about that. You're
right. You

1530
01:15:08,987 --> 01:15:13,220
know, will AI be able to
write, you know, Game of

1531
01:15:13,220 --> 01:15:16,460
Thrones and be great? Or,
or will it just copy Game

1532
01:15:16,460 --> 01:15:18,920
of Thrones? Will
it come up with its own

1533
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:20,200
great? Maybe
you're right. Maybe

1534
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,200
it will. Well,
you could. Here's

1535
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,140
the cool thing about AI
though, Mike, is you could

1536
01:15:24,140 --> 01:15:28,900
say write Game of Thrones,
but act like you are the

1537
01:15:28,900 --> 01:15:31,860
Flintstones in writing Game
of Thrones, you know, and

1538
01:15:31,860 --> 01:15:34,700
write it like the
Flintstones would. And

1539
01:15:34,700 --> 01:15:37,640
all of a sudden it's this
whole different thing, you

1540
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:40,240
know, because you can
combine different bits and

1541
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,740
pieces and without actually
just copying something about

1542
01:15:43,740 --> 01:15:46,800
consoles and, you know,
copying and knocking off

1543
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:48,280
China, knocking off stuff.
And

1544
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:50,820
I'm like, well, when people
stop innovating stuff

1545
01:15:50,820 --> 01:15:54,200
because you put them all
out of business, then I'm

1546
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,980
with you. 100 % with you
on that one. I'm

1547
01:15:57,980 --> 01:15:59,740
100 % with you on that
one. Totally.

1548
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:04,720
Maybe I am so sophisticated
that it will be that. And

1549
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,560
honestly, I'd rather, you
know, not live in that

1550
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,140
world. They
have to, but, you know,

1551
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:12,800
yeah. But
the thing is, if you look

1552
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,100
at the, if you look at
the upside, so, you know,

1553
01:16:15,140 --> 01:16:17,240
Richard Kadina, right? Of
course. I

1554
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,180
had him on the podcast
recently and we talked

1555
01:16:19,180 --> 01:16:22,720
about AI and he said one
of the applications that

1556
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:27,700
I've recently used it for
is he writes JavaScript to

1557
01:16:27,700 --> 01:16:29,920
do certain things and I
forget what it is, but

1558
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:35,660
he'll write a whole bunch
of lines of code and he

1559
01:16:35,660 --> 01:16:38,980
uses AI for that now. And,
you know, he saves himself

1560
01:16:38,980 --> 01:16:43,980
tens of hours, you know,
on writing these scripts,

1561
01:16:44,460 --> 01:16:48,420
he uses, he uses AI and
uses those hours more

1562
01:16:48,420 --> 01:16:50,800
productively. Right.
So it's just like anything

1563
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:52,760
else. We
have to adapt or die. I

1564
01:16:52,768 --> 01:16:55,160
mean, you know, the biggest
thing I've always seen this

1565
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:59,680
mean where it's like if,
if Thomas Edison invented a

1566
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:01,800
light bulb today, the New
York Times would say

1567
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,600
candlelight the industry
threatened. Yeah.

1568
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,940
You're totally right. Yeah,
you're totally right. Things

1569
01:17:07,940 --> 01:17:09,860
come and go. I
mean, we don't use kerosene

1570
01:17:09,860 --> 01:17:12,760
lamps in movies. We
have electric lamps now in

1571
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,860
all my friends are like,
ah, you know, I never go

1572
01:17:15,860 --> 01:17:18,040
to the checkout lane at
Target or whatever that

1573
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:20,240
self -service thing. And
I'm like, it's coming

1574
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:22,340
people. I
mean, you know, you can

1575
01:17:22,340 --> 01:17:25,100
fight it or you can be
the technician that bears

1576
01:17:25,100 --> 01:17:27,080
that machine with bricks.
Yeah.

1577
01:17:27,340 --> 01:17:28,740
Yeah. You're
totally right. And

1578
01:17:28,740 --> 01:17:30,540
you can't do anything about
it. It's

1579
01:17:30,540 --> 01:17:33,560
more cost effective and it
works and whatever. I

1580
01:17:33,568 --> 01:17:35,860
mean, that is on
challenges, but you know,

1581
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:37,580
we just have to do that.
And

1582
01:17:37,580 --> 01:17:40,520
we will as a civilization
certain jobs go away and

1583
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,380
maybe my job will go away
someday. But

1584
01:17:43,388 --> 01:17:45,500
you know who said it
really well was, you know

1585
01:17:45,500 --> 01:17:46,800
who Mike Rowe is, right?
The

1586
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:48,660
dirty jobs guy. I
love that guy. Yeah.

1587
01:17:48,660 --> 01:17:51,780
Yeah. So
he was on, uh, I think it

1588
01:17:51,780 --> 01:17:53,540
was Joe Rogan. I
don't even remember or was

1589
01:17:53,540 --> 01:17:55,580
it might have been Tucker
Carlson or something. He

1590
01:17:55,580 --> 01:17:59,420
was on somebody's podcast
recently and I can't

1591
01:17:59,420 --> 01:18:00,880
believe I don't remember
because it was like two

1592
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,020
weeks ago. And,
uh, he was talking about

1593
01:18:04,020 --> 01:18:07,320
the fact that, you know,
it's not going to replace

1594
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,640
plumbers, but it's going to
make plumbers a lot smarter

1595
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,420
with regard to marketing
their business, expanding

1596
01:18:13,420 --> 01:18:16,420
their business, uh, you
know, doing accounting in

1597
01:18:16,420 --> 01:18:20,820
their business and plumbers
might be poets on the side

1598
01:18:20,820 --> 01:18:23,580
because of AI or whatever.
So,

1599
01:18:23,700 --> 01:18:26,060
you know, that's a great
point. We

1600
01:18:26,060 --> 01:18:29,620
may come full circle that
the vocational jobs are the

1601
01:18:29,620 --> 01:18:31,360
ones that are left and
become. Oh,

1602
01:18:31,380 --> 01:18:34,020
I think we're there. Yeah.
I think we're, we're on

1603
01:18:34,020 --> 01:18:35,860
the verge of that right
now. Yeah.

1604
01:18:36,380 --> 01:18:39,160
And the snobbery artists
and stuff like, you know,

1605
01:18:39,220 --> 01:18:42,240
where I like to say, oh,
I'm a designer and I, you

1606
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,400
know, I could do much
better than AI. You

1607
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:46,840
know, I might be out of a
job and, and the guy,

1608
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,200
you're right. Doing
the plumbing who uses an

1609
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,560
AI camera to go down your
pipes and figure out

1610
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:56,220
exactly what's wrong. Yeah.
No, you're, you're, uh,

1611
01:18:56,340 --> 01:18:59,820
you're right there. Um,
I was just going to ask

1612
01:18:59,820 --> 01:19:02,200
you something and I forget
what it was. Uh,

1613
01:19:02,580 --> 01:19:07,280
anyways, the, um, the other
thing I'd like to do is,

1614
01:19:07,300 --> 01:19:10,240
is talk to you a little
bit about gear and, you

1615
01:19:10,248 --> 01:19:12,140
know, one of the things I
like to do on the podcast

1616
01:19:12,140 --> 01:19:14,400
and I probably should put
this into the pre -show

1617
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:16,380
notes so that people can
think about it for a

1618
01:19:16,380 --> 01:19:19,500
minute and I don't put you
on the spot, but three

1619
01:19:19,500 --> 01:19:23,140
pieces of gear. Go
to pieces of gear that any

1620
01:19:23,140 --> 01:19:25,160
show you're doing. And
I know that different shows

1621
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,340
you're going to start with
a different package, but,

1622
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:30,100
uh, what are the three
pieces of gear you got to

1623
01:19:30,100 --> 01:19:31,820
have on every show you do?
Like

1624
01:19:31,820 --> 01:19:35,880
currently or past currently
today, your favorites. I

1625
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:39,180
mean, I still think a
Sharpie or a Lachey five R

1626
01:19:39,180 --> 01:19:42,040
that being lightest is to
get up super. And

1627
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:43,780
you got to keep perspective
to take the shows. I

1628
01:19:43,780 --> 01:19:45,720
think when I'm doing a lot
of television shows where

1629
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,160
it's important that they're
left background with light

1630
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:50,980
or beams or something and
that's a cheap way to do

1631
01:19:50,980 --> 01:19:52,980
it without building a set
in the back and so forth.

1632
01:19:52,980 --> 01:19:54,000
Well,
even rock and roll shows,

1633
01:19:54,220 --> 01:19:55,540
Mike. I
mean, you know, when you

1634
01:19:55,540 --> 01:19:59,360
got a, a bazillion lumen
screen behind you, you

1635
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:01,700
know, you're not going to
project these pretty gobos

1636
01:20:01,700 --> 01:20:03,480
in front of it. You're
going to put the brightest

1637
01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:05,440
beams you possibly can.
Yeah.

1638
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:06,880
Yeah. And
I mean, there's tons of

1639
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,080
variations of that. They're
getting bigger, brighter and

1640
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,980
now LED, which is great,
but not calling all the

1641
01:20:11,980 --> 01:20:14,020
Sharpie. Plenty
of people forever called it

1642
01:20:14,020 --> 01:20:16,000
every moving light of vera
light. Yeah.

1643
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:17,900
And sort of the Kleenex of
beams. Yeah,

1644
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,780
exactly. Yeah.
So that's, that's

1645
01:20:20,780 --> 01:20:23,940
indispensable for sure. And
you know, the guy, the

1646
01:20:23,940 --> 01:20:26,300
person who thought, Hey,
let's reinvent the ACL,

1647
01:20:26,460 --> 01:20:28,280
which is essentially what a
Sharpie is, right? You

1648
01:20:28,288 --> 01:20:30,220
put four together. You
have an ACL. So

1649
01:20:30,220 --> 01:20:32,020
the younger people watching
this probably a little bit

1650
01:20:32,020 --> 01:20:35,560
of an ACL, but you know,
I mean, I did do enough

1651
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:37,460
concerts when I was coming
up. I

1652
01:20:37,460 --> 01:20:39,820
fell in love with an ACL
when I came out of theater

1653
01:20:39,820 --> 01:20:43,160
and I discovered an ACL. I
was like, Oh, that's a

1654
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:44,580
foolish thing. Right.
Yeah. I've

1655
01:20:44,580 --> 01:20:47,120
never seen before. And
the other thing would be

1656
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:48,980
haze. I
would think if you want to

1657
01:20:48,980 --> 01:20:52,240
say that that's allowable
to be anything. Is

1658
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:54,460
there a particular machine
that you like? Like,

1659
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,460
is there what's your go
to? I

1660
01:20:57,460 --> 01:21:01,800
mean, honestly, we purchased
mostly elation stuff. We

1661
01:21:01,808 --> 01:21:03,940
have a great relation with
a lace stuff, great

1662
01:21:03,940 --> 01:21:06,500
relationship with the
elation. And

1663
01:21:06,500 --> 01:21:10,300
we tend to, to buy a lot
of their stuff. Magnetic,

1664
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:12,800
it's called, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Magnetic,

1665
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,040
you know, and, uh, but you
know, hey, is there, and

1666
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:18,120
foggers and so there's a
little bit of an

1667
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,780
expendable, honestly, we
don't, the life of them

1668
01:21:21,780 --> 01:21:23,620
are, you know, and this is
not a same on elation

1669
01:21:23,620 --> 01:21:25,200
because they're all the
same, but you know, they

1670
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,360
got fog juice in there and
they clog up. And

1671
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:32,460
so, you know, the price
point is economical. So

1672
01:21:32,460 --> 01:21:34,500
we just kind of, Oh, that
one broke. Let's

1673
01:21:34,500 --> 01:21:36,200
buy anyone. I'm
not going to go to

1674
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:38,100
California to be repaired.
Yeah.

1675
01:21:38,900 --> 01:21:42,060
That's worth a, but I
mean, there's on the

1676
01:21:42,060 --> 01:21:45,580
special effects kind where
you can, I love low fog

1677
01:21:45,580 --> 01:21:49,060
and all that stuff. When
I can, you know, and you

1678
01:21:49,060 --> 01:21:50,800
got to do it right. I
mean, I can go to the

1679
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,320
theater where we had a big
barrel of hot water and

1680
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:56,640
you dropped the basket of
dry ice in there and you

1681
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,140
made the four man's fog.
And

1682
01:21:58,140 --> 01:22:00,300
that's my first band. We
did that and we had like

1683
01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:02,820
a little fricking house fan
in front of it. And

1684
01:22:02,827 --> 01:22:05,800
you know, I mean, one of
my first tours, I think

1685
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,520
was a Sheena Easton tour.
We

1686
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:11,780
used cookies to do Hayes.
Yeah.

1687
01:22:11,940 --> 01:22:14,920
We never cook. No,
it was a hot plate. And

1688
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,020
I guarantee you this is
cancer, it's for sure.

1689
01:22:17,300 --> 01:22:18,820
Yeah.
And they had this kind of

1690
01:22:18,820 --> 01:22:21,660
was made of one of the
old guys probably son of

1691
01:22:21,660 --> 01:22:23,520
it. It
was just stuff and you

1692
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,760
like crumbled it on a hot
plate backstage and it

1693
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,560
smoked. And
they call it cookies. That

1694
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,780
was like LSD days, right?
Yeah.

1695
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,440
You know, LSD, the lighting
company for the people that

1696
01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:35,920
don't. Oh,
I thought you meant LSD.

1697
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:37,300
You
did acid and then burn

1698
01:22:37,300 --> 01:22:39,040
cookies on a hot plate.
Like

1699
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:43,020
lighting sound design and
yeah, I can those days and

1700
01:22:43,020 --> 01:22:45,280
you would have a hot plate
and you would put this

1701
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:48,320
stuff on there. It
was like a powdery kind of

1702
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:50,900
cookie and you put it on
there and it's fun. That

1703
01:22:50,900 --> 01:22:52,740
was before BF 50s, right?
And

1704
01:22:52,740 --> 01:22:54,600
I didn't even know about
that one. That's

1705
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,060
interesting. Yeah.
So I'm just sitting there

1706
01:22:57,060 --> 01:23:00,020
going up a little on it's.
You

1707
01:23:00,020 --> 01:23:02,880
know, yeah. And
there's nothing wrong with

1708
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:05,260
us. We're
fine. Yeah.

1709
01:23:05,260 --> 01:23:07,240
You know, we're caused it.
So

1710
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:09,640
you got you got beams and
Hazers and what's what's

1711
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:13,760
the third one? You
know, I mean, obviously I'm

1712
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:15,560
a console. I
think is your go to right

1713
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:17,540
now. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, many consoles

1714
01:23:17,540 --> 01:23:20,740
are go to but to me
that's that's what my guys

1715
01:23:20,740 --> 01:23:23,060
do. Right.
You know, I don't you

1716
01:23:23,060 --> 01:23:24,300
know, and I said it
earlier. I

1717
01:23:24,300 --> 01:23:25,920
don't really program
anymore. I've

1718
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,660
kind of moved the past
that something I can't deal

1719
01:23:28,660 --> 01:23:30,740
with the technology anymore.
Obviously,

1720
01:23:30,940 --> 01:23:32,960
you know, I'm a console
guy. It

1721
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,620
just that peak my interest
anymore to keep up on it.

1722
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:37,200
It's
like I got about the kids

1723
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,280
that are whizzes at those
things. Yeah.

1724
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:41,240
Yeah. And
it just kind of gives me

1725
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:43,120
an headache that I just
want to make pretty

1726
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:46,080
pictures and yeah, I get
it. You

1727
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,400
know, I mean, I am at the
point in my career where,

1728
01:23:48,620 --> 01:23:51,960
you know, I, you know, get
off my lawn. I

1729
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,160
want to do what I want to
do and I'm very fortunate

1730
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,360
to feel like I'm in a
place where the company's

1731
01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:59,480
doing good and I'm going
to go out and do the gigs

1732
01:23:59,480 --> 01:24:01,420
I want and then so much
of my career. I

1733
01:24:01,420 --> 01:24:03,540
couldn't do that. I
take this gig or that gig

1734
01:24:03,540 --> 01:24:06,460
or go on this tour, get
on a plane at the last

1735
01:24:06,460 --> 01:24:09,260
minute to, you know,
wherever China and like

1736
01:24:09,260 --> 01:24:11,960
somebody calls me and go,
yeah, we want you to go

1737
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:16,060
to, you know, Hong Kong to
do this show. You're

1738
01:24:16,060 --> 01:24:20,160
gonna fly me business
class. Yeah,

1739
01:24:20,860 --> 01:24:23,660
I don't blame you. That
may sound arrogant, but you

1740
01:24:23,660 --> 01:24:26,920
know, you've done it a
long time. Yeah.

1741
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:28,440
I'm not doing any coach
anymore. I'm

1742
01:24:28,440 --> 01:24:30,960
55 years old. You
better get your flat seat.

1743
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:32,420
And
you know, you said your

1744
01:24:32,420 --> 01:24:37,260
lighting budget is $500 ,000
and you won't fly me

1745
01:24:37,260 --> 01:24:40,280
business class. So
yeah, six lights out of

1746
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,340
your budget and I can be
rested when I show up to

1747
01:24:43,340 --> 01:24:45,980
do your show. Yeah,
or I can be there because

1748
01:24:45,980 --> 01:24:47,820
I'm not going if you
don't. Yeah,

1749
01:24:47,820 --> 01:24:49,800
exactly. Yeah.
You know, I literally

1750
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,240
turned out some kids and
people go, I can't believe

1751
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:53,300
it. I
go, you know, but I got

1752
01:24:53,300 --> 01:24:55,540
some kids that would love
to do this. That

1753
01:24:55,540 --> 01:24:57,820
yeah, because when I was
in my twenties, I would

1754
01:24:57,820 --> 01:25:01,260
have gotten the back of
the plane in the smoking

1755
01:25:01,260 --> 01:25:03,440
middle seat. We're
still there. Yeah,

1756
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:06,080
one row up from the
smoking section. Yeah.

1757
01:25:06,180 --> 01:25:08,020
I remember it too well.
You

1758
01:25:08,028 --> 01:25:11,620
were so cool. Yeah.
Yeah. You

1759
01:25:11,620 --> 01:25:14,100
know, anyway, that I give
you the last I just think,

1760
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:19,220
you know, I, I'm like, I'm
gonna say this. I

1761
01:25:19,220 --> 01:25:24,780
wish I still had the VL
five as my stern. Huh?

1762
01:25:24,860 --> 01:25:27,640
Because I love the VL
five. I

1763
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:30,540
love the look of it and I
know they kind of revamped

1764
01:25:30,540 --> 01:25:33,080
it and, you know, with
some success and we don't

1765
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:35,540
have any of those air in
for, but I just thought

1766
01:25:35,540 --> 01:25:38,700
that was the best bike can
eat the VL five and the

1767
01:25:38,700 --> 01:25:42,560
VL two C. The
VL two C had the best

1768
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:46,240
beam for camera that has
ever existed. It

1769
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:50,640
was at tiny aperture and
it had a in its its

1770
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:55,720
source was very small. So
you've got a very tight

1771
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:59,240
beam and a beautiful beam
on camera and nobody's been

1772
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:02,700
able to replicate that. And
I'm not sure that people

1773
01:26:02,700 --> 01:26:05,680
understand how perfect that
looked on camera. Well,

1774
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:08,880
because I think and you'd
have to ask Matthias and

1775
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,300
other people this, but you
know, me coming from the

1776
01:26:12,300 --> 01:26:15,660
moving light side of this
business, whenever we had

1777
01:26:15,660 --> 01:26:18,520
small beams and small
apertures, everybody wanted

1778
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:22,760
bigger apertures. Everybody
wanted 150 mil front lenses

1779
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:25,740
or 180 mil front lenses
because that's what the

1780
01:26:25,740 --> 01:26:28,840
icon had and everyone loved
the icon or everyone loved

1781
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:33,320
the whatever light. And
so one thing that I

1782
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:35,540
learned a long time ago
and I'm older than you and

1783
01:26:35,540 --> 01:26:38,260
I'm old now. And
so I can say this, like

1784
01:26:38,260 --> 01:26:40,860
if I was designing
products, I would design

1785
01:26:40,860 --> 01:26:43,320
what I wanted to design
because the minute you

1786
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:46,540
start listening too much to
everyone, you're going to

1787
01:26:46,540 --> 01:26:48,720
get a hundred different
versions of every light,

1788
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:51,180
you know, because everyone's
going to have a different

1789
01:26:51,180 --> 01:26:53,300
idea of what it needs in
it and they're always going

1790
01:26:53,300 --> 01:26:55,820
to want the one thing you
don't have no matter what

1791
01:26:55,820 --> 01:26:58,320
you put in it. So
experience that when I was

1792
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:00,840
at Martin doing some R &D
and especially with the Mac

1793
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,280
three. Yeah,
they tried to make it for

1794
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,500
everybody like just make a,
you know, a better and

1795
01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:10,060
ultimately they made a
viper, which was the

1796
01:27:10,060 --> 01:27:12,480
solution to that. Yeah.
Yeah. But

1797
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:15,200
the Mac three was like,
well, you know, one LV can

1798
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,000
well this thing's got to
zoom this big a range. So

1799
01:27:18,008 --> 01:27:19,860
now it's become this big
on this. I've

1800
01:27:19,860 --> 01:27:22,300
got to have rotating
whatever's and that's

1801
01:27:22,300 --> 01:27:23,740
bigger. And
the thing became this

1802
01:27:23,740 --> 01:27:26,340
massive thing. You,
you tried to please too

1803
01:27:26,340 --> 01:27:28,300
many people. I
mean, yeah, still in the

1804
01:27:28,300 --> 01:27:32,320
industry of fixtures where
specialized, you know, these

1805
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,200
likes to do this and this
like does that. And

1806
01:27:34,208 --> 01:27:38,300
in every hybrid light that
I've seen and I'll probably

1807
01:27:38,300 --> 01:27:40,900
get some calls of Roe V
or some other people that

1808
01:27:40,900 --> 01:27:42,120
show me their hybrid light.
That's

1809
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:46,140
great. But
it's never been very good

1810
01:27:46,140 --> 01:27:48,120
at any particular set.
Well,

1811
01:27:48,140 --> 01:27:50,120
you're compromising on
something. You

1812
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,180
have to. You
have to compromise on

1813
01:27:52,180 --> 01:27:54,560
something to have
everything, right? So

1814
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:57,240
it's just a series of
compromises put together in

1815
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,160
one package. Yeah.
Wash light is a wash load.

1816
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:01,960
I,
no matter how much you

1817
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:04,120
diffuse a profile, it's not
going to be the same thing

1818
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:07,300
as a wash. So,
but you know, it's it's

1819
01:28:07,300 --> 01:28:09,140
secular. It
comes back around, you

1820
01:28:09,140 --> 01:28:11,520
know, like I said, the ACL
came back around became the

1821
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:14,680
sharpie and you know, the
fat beams kind of went

1822
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:16,680
away and then, you know,
then now that people are

1823
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:18,900
maybe going to go back to,
you know, it's just a

1824
01:28:18,900 --> 01:28:21,260
different look and there's
certain lights out there

1825
01:28:21,260 --> 01:28:24,940
that we've not invested in
because they're one trick

1826
01:28:24,940 --> 01:28:27,980
ponies and you see them on
every television show for

1827
01:28:27,980 --> 01:28:30,340
six months and then they
said the back of the shot

1828
01:28:30,340 --> 01:28:33,580
and and no offense to high
end show gun, right? So,

1829
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:36,680
yeah, you know, exactly was
really cool. And

1830
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,600
if you're the first couple
of people to put that on

1831
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:42,520
your show, viewer styling,
but then it just got so

1832
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:46,520
familiar that you're like,
oh, shut in today because

1833
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:48,320
I have any budget because
they can't get those new

1834
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:51,460
cool lights. No,
you're you're you're exactly

1835
01:28:51,460 --> 01:28:53,080
right. And
that's the problem with

1836
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:57,900
sort of novelty lights, you
know, you're calling them

1837
01:28:57,900 --> 01:29:00,360
one trick ponies and they
are, but you know, they're

1838
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:02,480
a novelty. They've
got one like, you know,

1839
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:04,420
there's this wave thing
now, which I thought was

1840
01:29:04,420 --> 01:29:05,620
really cool for a minute.
Really

1841
01:29:05,628 --> 01:29:08,180
cool. Yeah.
Really super cool. You

1842
01:29:08,180 --> 01:29:10,320
know, if you saw it on
more than two or three

1843
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:12,440
shows, you'd be over it
and you'd want regular

1844
01:29:12,440 --> 01:29:14,300
lights back or whatever,
right? So

1845
01:29:14,300 --> 01:29:17,100
it is interesting, but one
of the things you said

1846
01:29:17,100 --> 01:29:21,800
that I thought was was was
interesting was the VL five

1847
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:24,740
and that you've invested in
Mac ones because when I

1848
01:29:24,740 --> 01:29:26,720
first saw the Mac one, I
went, well, it's a little

1849
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:30,280
VL five ish, you know,
that thing and I talk

1850
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,380
about it way too much and
I'm not, you know, I

1851
01:29:33,380 --> 01:29:35,280
worked for Martin, but
that's about it. I'm

1852
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:38,320
not by any means, they
don't sponsor my podcast or

1853
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:40,720
anything, but I think
that's the coolest thing

1854
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,600
that's come out in the
last few years because not

1855
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,940
because it's got this
incredible technology, but

1856
01:29:46,940 --> 01:29:50,220
because it's, it's very
utilitarian. It

1857
01:29:50,220 --> 01:29:52,880
can do a lot of different
cool things that you need

1858
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:55,120
to do with a little
package, small package,

1859
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:59,380
lightweight and super cheap,
you know, and that to me

1860
01:29:59,380 --> 01:30:01,600
is a winner, not gonna,
and then all the, all the

1861
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:03,720
accessories, you know, the
four bar thing and all

1862
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:05,860
that stuff. It's
just a great package,

1863
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,580
really well done. Yeah.
Martin's got a lot of cool

1864
01:30:09,580 --> 01:30:12,080
things like that to connect
together and these little

1865
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,500
square lights. Yeah.
Unfortunately, other than an

1866
01:30:15,500 --> 01:30:18,740
install, it's hard for me
to invest in that stuff.

1867
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:20,840
Yeah.
But I like it and those

1868
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,460
are the kind of things
that we will go to VRG or

1869
01:30:23,460 --> 01:30:25,420
upstaging or whatever,
because those guys have

1870
01:30:25,420 --> 01:30:27,500
those talent. They
can afford to have those

1871
01:30:27,500 --> 01:30:31,040
things, right? But
yeah, the Mac one, I love

1872
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:33,740
it and I've never even
seen it personally. I

1873
01:30:33,740 --> 01:30:37,160
missed last year's LBI and
all my people went and

1874
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:39,040
they all come back and
said, Mac one, Mac one.

1875
01:30:39,180 --> 01:30:40,160
And
then Eric was like, yeah,

1876
01:30:40,180 --> 01:30:42,480
I love that thing. Let's
get some. Yeah.

1877
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,680
Because it's cool. I
mean, having some cool

1878
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,320
little lights, you know, is
a nice thing to mix up.

1879
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,040
You
can put them in rows. You

1880
01:30:51,048 --> 01:30:52,460
can put them in a pod.
You

1881
01:30:52,468 --> 01:30:55,300
can do a lot of, and then
the way they nap and stuff

1882
01:30:55,300 --> 01:30:57,900
is just real. Well,
and also from a cost

1883
01:30:57,900 --> 01:31:00,600
standpoint, you know, like
people have become way too

1884
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:03,580
accustomed to $10 ,000
moving lights at dealer

1885
01:31:03,580 --> 01:31:07,060
cost and you know, that
thing's under two grand at

1886
01:31:07,060 --> 01:31:09,580
dealer cost. So
it's, it's much more

1887
01:31:09,580 --> 01:31:11,420
affordable. You
can have hundreds instead

1888
01:31:11,420 --> 01:31:13,800
of 20 of them or whatever,
right? Yeah.

1889
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:16,940
So exactly. Yeah.
We purchased 152 of them.

1890
01:31:17,060 --> 01:31:18,700
Yeah.
And those are all out on

1891
01:31:18,700 --> 01:31:20,740
Janet. Those
four bars. Yeah.

1892
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:24,940
They're all on Janet. Yeah.
Cool. Yeah.

1893
01:31:24,940 --> 01:31:27,040
Well, it will be. I
don't know. Maybe

1894
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,500
I shouldn't be giving away
Eric's design there, but I

1895
01:31:29,500 --> 01:31:31,500
think you talked about it
too, right? Yeah,

1896
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,380
he did. Yeah.
Yeah. He

1897
01:31:33,380 --> 01:31:35,440
talked a whole bunch about
Janet. Yeah.

1898
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:36,900
Yeah. That
was a cool, cool

1899
01:31:36,900 --> 01:31:38,820
discussion. I
mean, you guys are killing

1900
01:31:38,820 --> 01:31:40,200
it. It's,
it's great to see. I

1901
01:31:40,208 --> 01:31:43,400
love it. It's
good on you. I'm

1902
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,760
really fortunate and
crossfade and, you know, I,

1903
01:31:45,900 --> 01:31:49,500
you know, and when I made
this, you know, doing that

1904
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:51,920
with Jason and then added
Eric and I mean, we, we

1905
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:53,820
all compliment each other
so great. And

1906
01:31:53,820 --> 01:31:56,560
that's what we formed the
company for because like,

1907
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:58,260
you know, Eric's more of a
rock and roll guy. I'm

1908
01:31:58,260 --> 01:31:59,200
not really a rock and
roll. We

1909
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:01,820
have a TV guy and maybe
if he has a TV show, I

1910
01:32:01,820 --> 01:32:03,860
help him out. And
if he, he has a, you

1911
01:32:03,860 --> 01:32:06,240
know, if I land a concert
or something and I do

1912
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:08,540
occasional ones, I could
like, you know, meet a

1913
01:32:08,540 --> 01:32:10,520
baker last year and stuff
like that. You

1914
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:12,440
know, he helps me out a
little bit. Yeah.

1915
01:32:12,820 --> 01:32:17,060
So, and then, you know, we
share, we've really gotten

1916
01:32:17,060 --> 01:32:19,440
into, I don't know if Eric
talked about this, we have

1917
01:32:19,440 --> 01:32:21,400
a couple of previous
studios in our Dallas

1918
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:22,420
office. He
did. Yeah.

1919
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:26,720
And we're using the pants
on and it's fantastic. I

1920
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:29,900
mean, I was involved back
in the AC lighting days

1921
01:32:29,900 --> 01:32:34,180
and flying big guys with
WYSIWYG and love WYSIWYG. I

1922
01:32:34,180 --> 01:32:37,140
mean, you know, they did
all my blocks on it. I

1923
01:32:37,140 --> 01:32:38,600
did the pre -programming on
it. And

1924
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:40,920
then of course, you know,
up through the days with

1925
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,280
Martin and so forth. But
I mean, the pants is just

1926
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:48,500
blows it all away. What,
what's it called? It's

1927
01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:50,840
called the, it's called the
pants. The

1928
01:32:50,848 --> 01:32:52,720
pants. I
don't know this. It

1929
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:56,140
is software. Okay.
And, you know, you can do

1930
01:32:56,140 --> 01:32:58,420
animations and you can make
custom people. So,

1931
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:01,100
you know, your guitar
players strumming along and

1932
01:33:01,100 --> 01:33:04,020
you, the smoke is not just
smoke, but it looks like

1933
01:33:04,020 --> 01:33:06,700
real smoke. Oh,
interesting. Fountains,

1934
01:33:06,860 --> 01:33:12,320
you know, with water
effects and Bellagio type

1935
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:16,680
fountain stuff. Sounds
expensive. It's

1936
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,980
really not that bad. I
mean, the, the software

1937
01:33:18,980 --> 01:33:21,420
itself is not that bad. Of
course, you've got to

1938
01:33:21,420 --> 01:33:24,940
invest in some really hot
computers to run it. Yeah.

1939
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:29,320
But we've set out to the
studios in Dallas where you

1940
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:32,160
go in there, pre -program
stuff and there's, you

1941
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:34,620
know, done all the data
taxes stuff and you do a

1942
01:33:34,620 --> 01:33:36,700
lot of other stuff in
there and now we're renting

1943
01:33:36,700 --> 01:33:38,840
out the other people that
come in. And

1944
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:41,500
I mean, you know, that's a
tricky thing. You

1945
01:33:41,508 --> 01:33:43,460
know, people over the years
have always tried to do

1946
01:33:43,460 --> 01:33:46,140
previous studios and they've
decked them out with, you

1947
01:33:46,140 --> 01:33:51,000
know, bars and food. Yeah.
You know, it's great, you

1948
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,480
know, but it's, it's a
tough business model to

1949
01:33:53,480 --> 01:33:56,840
make work. Yeah.
It's for our own use, but

1950
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:58,200
then we'll be rented out.
That's

1951
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:00,280
a bonus. Yeah.
Yeah, but you're not

1952
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:03,720
providing a hotel room and
catering and stuff. You're,

1953
01:34:03,940 --> 01:34:05,640
it's just a previous
studio. Yeah.

1954
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:08,420
Bring your subway sub.
Yeah.

1955
01:34:08,820 --> 01:34:10,380
Right. Coming
into Dallas, we'll call

1956
01:34:10,380 --> 01:34:12,540
over Eats 40 if you need,
you know, you know, you

1957
01:34:12,548 --> 01:34:14,600
will run out. We'll
have one of our guys run

1958
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:16,880
out to get you a bottle
of bourbon or whatever you

1959
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:20,340
need. But,
you know, that's, that's

1960
01:34:20,340 --> 01:34:22,420
another thing that we
really got me into. And

1961
01:34:22,428 --> 01:34:24,600
we've tried to stay focused
on certain things. You

1962
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:26,800
know, we're not, like I
said, try to be out

1963
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:29,480
staging and buy hundreds of
lights at the health of

1964
01:34:29,480 --> 01:34:31,680
the lights. Yeah.
Love up staging. Love

1965
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,060
working with those guys up
here to, you know, all

1966
01:34:34,060 --> 01:34:37,320
these different benders.
Yeah.

1967
01:34:37,900 --> 01:34:41,680
I seem to recall Eric said
something about rehearsal

1968
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:44,620
space too. Like
that was something that may

1969
01:34:44,620 --> 01:34:47,080
or may not happen in the
future. We

1970
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:49,540
are, we are working on a
project. I

1971
01:34:49,540 --> 01:34:52,240
should bite my lip on how
far I go. I

1972
01:34:52,248 --> 01:34:55,720
mean, I've been a little
far on letting that out of

1973
01:34:55,720 --> 01:34:57,660
the bag. But
yes, we're working on

1974
01:34:57,660 --> 01:35:01,400
something, a large scale
project that may, you know,

1975
01:35:01,420 --> 01:35:03,580
we hope that happens. Well,
it's obviously a problem.

1976
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:05,380
It's
a huge problem. I

1977
01:35:05,380 --> 01:35:07,380
mean, the shortage of
rehearsal space right now.

1978
01:35:07,660 --> 01:35:09,700
So,
and good. Yeah.

1979
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:12,780
Space, you know, with high
enough that you can hang a

1980
01:35:12,780 --> 01:35:17,320
rig in and strong enough
bridge to support that. I

1981
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:20,300
know that Rockletts, of
course, is the main people

1982
01:35:20,300 --> 01:35:22,520
on the Gateway has built
something and say, yeah,

1983
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:25,680
and so forth. But
yeah, you know, you might

1984
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,900
hear something about that
down the line. Cool.

1985
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:32,600
Well, I appreciate you
taking the time. What

1986
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:33,680
gig are you on right now?
You

1987
01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:35,300
mentioned it earlier, I
think. I'm

1988
01:35:35,300 --> 01:35:38,280
on a bare knuckle fighting
championships. VKFC

1989
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:41,440
is we're at the Peacock
Theater and downtown LA

1990
01:35:41,440 --> 01:35:44,360
next to well, crypto now.
I'll

1991
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:47,120
call it Staples Center
forever. And

1992
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:50,640
when are the fights? The
theater and the fights are

1993
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:53,400
when tomorrow or Saturday
or what? The

1994
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:57,240
fight is Saturday night. Of
course, by the time, you

1995
01:35:57,240 --> 01:35:59,440
know, it's a Saturday
night. It's

1996
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:01,520
a pay it. It's
it's an amp that you

1997
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:05,480
should subscribe to. Okay.
VKFC .com and check it out.

1998
01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:08,280
I
mean, it's really it's not

1999
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:09,680
as brutal as it sounds.
Although

2000
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:11,500
it's it's a little brutal.
I

2001
01:36:11,500 --> 01:36:14,620
mean, you know, how how
far are we from gladiators

2002
01:36:14,620 --> 01:36:17,040
where we just get each
other? It's

2003
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:20,000
but you know what though,
like people think it's all

2004
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,060
just so brutal and horrible
and everything. But

2005
01:36:23,060 --> 01:36:27,700
like, again, I'm a big UFC
guy and the thing about

2006
01:36:27,700 --> 01:36:31,800
that sport is there's so
much more to it than what

2007
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,520
you see. Like
it's not just brutal

2008
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:37,400
violence. There
is some of that, but

2009
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,340
there's a lot of strategy
and there's a lot of like,

2010
01:36:40,340 --> 01:36:43,900
if you focus too much on
on headshots, you know,

2011
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,600
you're going to get kicked
in your legs and you're

2012
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,720
going to end up not being
able to walk. And

2013
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:52,000
if you focus too much on
your stand up game, you're

2014
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:54,360
going to get taken down
and put into some kind of

2015
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,880
a hold that's going to,
you know, make you tap or

2016
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,480
whatever. There's
just so much is definitely

2017
01:36:59,480 --> 01:37:01,300
different. This
is straight up box. Yeah.

2018
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:03,340
Straight up. Very
not boxing with no gloves.

2019
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:07,260
Yeah.
And some people already let

2020
01:37:07,260 --> 01:37:10,200
it stay for a way because
people get knocked out.

2021
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:12,000
Really
quick, you know, you don't

2022
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:14,960
get like 12 rounds of
concussion to your head.

2023
01:37:15,100 --> 01:37:16,860
Constant
head trauma. Because

2024
01:37:16,860 --> 01:37:19,900
yeah, there's a lot of
first round knock out.

2025
01:37:20,020 --> 01:37:21,700
There's
a lot of fights and a lot

2026
01:37:21,700 --> 01:37:24,220
of men early. The
women want so much. They

2027
01:37:24,220 --> 01:37:25,980
tend to be each other up
as they don't have the

2028
01:37:25,980 --> 01:37:28,280
power. Yeah.
But a lot of the guys

2029
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:30,500
come out in first 30
seconds. It's

2030
01:37:30,500 --> 01:37:32,860
a little bit like I was
down. And

2031
01:37:32,860 --> 01:37:35,820
so it's not as bloody, you
know, the bloody ones are

2032
01:37:35,820 --> 01:37:38,040
the ones that go several
rounds. Well,

2033
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:39,740
at least you're far enough
away where you're not

2034
01:37:39,740 --> 01:37:43,360
getting hit by like blood
from the ring. Way

2035
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:45,960
clear. I
don't know. It's,

2036
01:37:46,060 --> 01:37:51,220
you know, the no thank you
to know. And

2037
01:37:51,220 --> 01:37:54,160
the funny thing is, is I'm
not a LLMTW Fight fan

2038
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:56,320
really. Really?
I mean, you don't seem

2039
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:57,540
like it. Boxing
fan. You

2040
01:37:57,540 --> 01:37:59,800
don't seem like it. I
don't watch MMA. I

2041
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:01,480
could care less about UFC.
Yeah.

2042
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:04,220
Was another client. If
they were a client, I'd

2043
01:38:04,220 --> 01:38:05,200
care a lot about them.
Yeah.

2044
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:10,580
You know, I do these
things and I enjoy the

2045
01:38:10,580 --> 01:38:13,480
people I work with both
these top rank and very

2046
01:38:13,480 --> 01:38:16,140
enough, they're the producer
stuff are fantastic to work

2047
01:38:16,140 --> 01:38:18,160
with. And
that's what I seek out in

2048
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:19,760
my old age. Right.
Yeah. I

2049
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:21,340
want to enjoy what I'm
doing. I

2050
01:38:21,340 --> 01:38:23,880
want to work with people
to fun to work with, keep

2051
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,600
working with those people,
maybe add some cool

2052
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:28,480
project. I
mean, I really talked about

2053
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:30,760
one of the greatest things
I got to do in my career,

2054
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:34,020
honestly, was help out at
my high school after I'm

2055
01:38:34,020 --> 01:38:36,460
because I lived in LA for
almost 20 years and then I

2056
01:38:36,460 --> 01:38:39,440
moved back to Louisville
where I grew up and my

2057
01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:42,660
kids were ready for school
and they went to school

2058
01:38:42,660 --> 01:38:46,140
back there and they were
involved in the same

2059
01:38:46,140 --> 01:38:48,400
theater department that I
was involved in went to

2060
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,900
the same high school and
you know, I'd spend hours

2061
01:38:51,900 --> 01:38:54,760
and hours and hours helping
them installing movie lights

2062
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:56,080
in their high school.
That's

2063
01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:58,240
cool. Designs
and stuff for teaching the

2064
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:02,540
kids, you know, and just
mentoring those kids and I

2065
01:39:02,540 --> 01:39:04,500
designed a couple of shows
one. So

2066
01:39:04,500 --> 01:39:07,180
I have to design which is
a production and newsies. I

2067
01:39:07,180 --> 01:39:09,240
don't know if you know
that Broadway show or not.

2068
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:10,720
Now
I'm the Broadway guy, but

2069
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:15,760
my son started it and I
did the lighting. Oh,

2070
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:20,080
wow. Amazing.
And yeah, you and he was

2071
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:22,520
also doing lighting. Yeah.
And he did some other

2072
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:25,640
ones, you know, so it was
that was a great time. I

2073
01:39:25,648 --> 01:39:28,540
mean, honestly, one of the
things I really want to

2074
01:39:28,540 --> 01:39:31,560
start looking for is maybe
passing that ability to

2075
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:35,020
teach kids stuff or maybe
we try to find a busy

2076
01:39:35,020 --> 01:39:36,860
system. They
might as listening and

2077
01:39:36,860 --> 01:39:39,720
needs a visiting professor
for a semester. I

2078
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:42,020
don't know that I could
give up my career and be

2079
01:39:42,020 --> 01:39:44,480
a professor full time
forever, but man, I would

2080
01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:46,580
love to be involved in
some schools and teaching

2081
01:39:46,580 --> 01:39:48,260
these kids. That's
amazing. I

2082
01:39:48,268 --> 01:39:51,580
think that I think there's
there's so much out there.

2083
01:39:51,820 --> 01:39:53,300
A
lot of times with theaters

2084
01:39:53,300 --> 01:39:56,880
for teaching the kids to
be Broadway designers. And

2085
01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:58,560
you know, as I said at
the beginning of this

2086
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:02,320
broadcast, it's like there's
10 of those. And

2087
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:04,540
let's make sure we
understand that even though

2088
01:40:04,540 --> 01:40:08,120
we're teaching them with a
theater degree, the chance

2089
01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:10,800
of you making a decent
living doing theater is

2090
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:14,980
very small. But
you can this you can make

2091
01:40:14,980 --> 01:40:17,460
a nice living in this
industry, bring a programmer

2092
01:40:17,460 --> 01:40:19,920
or a designer or being out
on the road. If

2093
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:22,600
you're willing to sacrifice
and do, you know, this

2094
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:26,540
lifestyle, you can do you
can do really well. Yeah.

2095
01:40:26,820 --> 01:40:28,420
Yeah, you certainly can.
Yeah.

2096
01:40:28,420 --> 01:40:30,520
And that's such an
important thing. Like

2097
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:33,440
for guys like you who have
done it a while and you

2098
01:40:33,440 --> 01:40:37,720
have such a sort of wide
package of knowledge. It's

2099
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:40,520
it's so important to be
willing and able to go

2100
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,440
back and mentor kids and
our industry has such a

2101
01:40:43,440 --> 01:40:47,240
need for people. So
it's such an important

2102
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:49,680
thing. And
it's, you know, our

2103
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:53,040
industry is so unselfish
when it comes to that,

2104
01:40:53,100 --> 01:40:56,820
like just the willingness
to share information and

2105
01:40:56,820 --> 01:41:00,220
share ideas. And
and share knowledge, you

2106
01:41:00,220 --> 01:41:04,900
know, is amazing. So
I like that. Awesome.

2107
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:07,200
Well, Michael, I appreciate
you, man. And

2108
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:09,520
good luck with the show
this weekend. And

2109
01:41:09,528 --> 01:41:13,360
yeah. Thanks.
Been fun. Good

2110
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:15,160
talking to you again after
a long time. And

2111
01:41:15,168 --> 01:41:17,940
you as well. All
right. Okay.

2112
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:32,309
Cheers. Thanks.
Yeah.