#236 - Dan Braun

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Hello there and thank you for
coming on board again here today

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for Episode #236.
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Some days my job is more fun

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than other days.
Today is one of those days.

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I'm really looking forward today
and I'll tell you why in a

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couple of minutes.
But first I wanted to just

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mention if you haven't seen them
already and you're watching this

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live right now.
This week we launched both Josh

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Allen who's an incredible
designer who's created a really

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cool firm.
We've launched his Episode #233

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and also the brilliant Swami
Richard Kadena on episode 234.

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Both of those were really fun,
both were very informative as

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well, and we're starting to get
some smarter people in, I guess.

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What's going on here?
And challenging me for sure,

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asking or answering questions
that I don't always understand.

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But no, it's been amazing.
I'm super proud and and grateful

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to have the quality of people
that we've got.

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Yesterday I recorded #235, which
will be out probably.

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I think it's next week, next
Wednesday, probably April,

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whatever that is 10th, maybe
that's an excellent 1.

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Matthias Henricks who is the
head of I believe lighting

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engineering or product design or
whatever adulation.

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Super smart dude.
Spent a lot of time at Martin

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running their console console
division and now is adulation

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and has been bringing out all
these incredible new elation

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products and also has had his
hand in Obsidian of course.

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And so yeah, really great
episode.

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I hope you like it.
But for this week, listen to

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2:33 and 2:34 both really good
and yeah, I'm grateful.

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Like I said so as I said, some
days are better than others.

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Today is a superb day.
Today's guest is has a resume.

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I don't even want to get into
his resume because it's crazy.

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But I'm going to name a few
bands or acts or clients.

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Poison, Robert Palmer.
Queens Reich.

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Tesla.
Luis.

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Miguel.
Bruce Hornsby.

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Andrea Bocelli.
Madonna.

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Rush.
The Allman Brothers Band.

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MI Don't even know who that is.
Shania Twain?

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Josh Groban?
Desert Disturbed.

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NFL.
Salesforce.

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Throw that one in there.
That's a weird one.

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And yes, Metallica.
So talk about career spans.

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Dan Brown started his legendary
career path more than 45 years

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ago.
In fact, this year marks Dan's

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30th year working with the mega
act Metallica, where he remains

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their show director today while
delivering the best show he can

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to their massive audiences
around the world.

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Longevity in this industry isn't
by accident, And I tell people

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this all the time.
You know, if you've been here

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that long, you're doing
something right.

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Dan is no exception.
So please join me and welcome

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Dan Brown.
Hey, Dan, how are you today?

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I'm doing very very well.
Thanks very much.

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And good to see you.
You look well.

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You look well.
You look rested.

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You're in between massive
stadium shows, I think, aren't

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you?
Or legs.

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Big, big legs, yeah.
That part of my life starts back

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up at the end of May over in
Europe.

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So, gearing.
Up a lot of work going on to get

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ready for that, and I have some
corporate clients and doing some

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work with them, but a lot of
that's on Zoom, so I've been at

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home and able to enjoy a little
bit of downtime.

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Very cool.
And you're in.

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You're in Washington somewhere,
aren't you?

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Cameras, Washington, The hotbed
of the entertainment industry.

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So I'm from Calgary, Canada,
just across the border there and

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and so yeah, I've spent a whole
bunch of time in my youth in in

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Washington, but I live in South
Florida.

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I have a house up there in in
Alberta where I go for the warm

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months.
Now I finally got smart and I

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just go up for the warm months.
I don't even ski much anymore.

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So but yeah, I'm not that far
away.

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I used to get your TV channels.
Little transitioning away from

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the skiing thing, too, just.
You know.

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Getting older and I've had a
great run with it, so it's.

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Me too.
It was like I started when I was

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probably 9 or 10 years old, You
know, growing up in in Western

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Canada, it's just one of the
things You did that in hockey

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and I ski very well.
But now that I'm turning 60 this

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year, like my legs just don't do
the same stuff for the the same

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length of time.
And so now I find myself nearing

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epic wrecks, you know, because
I'm just, I'm doing the stuff I

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know how to do and my legs are
given out, you know?

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So I didn't, I didn't, I didn't
start early.

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I I firmly believe you should
start anything, any kind of a

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risk thing like that before you
understand the word mortgage.

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I did not.
I started in my 30s and I've had

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a a great time with it and I
too, I've got a couple of years

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on you and I'm crossing into a
time where it's like well.

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Yeah.
What do we want to do here?

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So.
Kind of.

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Well, you know, I I still have
lots of friends up there who are

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in their late 60s, even 70s who
still ski 100 days a year.

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And if you're doing that, it's
OK.

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But for me to go up there like
in November or December for a

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week and try and do three or
four days of skiing by the 4th

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day, my legs are just kind of
starting to feel normal.

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But you know, it's just
dangerous.

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It's it's dangerous at some
point, right?

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It's why so many of these, so
many of these people my age and

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older, you know, get injured or
die skiing.

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You know, it's because we forget
that we're not 30 anymore and we

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can't do the same stuff.
And in my case, I was never as

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good as I thought I was anyhow.
Well, is any of us, you know, I

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thought I was a world champion,
you know, Olympic skier or

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whatever, but not so much.
Yeah, I'm, I'm decent.

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But again, even though I live
right there, like my house is

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right there, where all the great
ski areas are very close to Lake

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Louise and all that stuff,
there's.

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Some beautiful skiing up there.
That's where Elvis has barbecues

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with God.
That's a pretty place, that.

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Is a pretty place in here.
I'm gonna have to village.

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I think it is.
That's a beautiful.

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Place Yeah, I spent loads of
time at Sunshine Village.

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I actually, I broke my leg one
time skiing and it was at

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Sunshine Village and I was about
15.

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So it's a long time ago.
I was probably 13 or 14 actually

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and I think I had just
discovered marijuana and

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combining marijuana with skiing
and so I was pretty wasted.

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And I, they had just that week
opened a run called Teepee Town.

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And so me and my friend who was
also wasted, decide we're gonna

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go for it.
And, you know, I had just gotten

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brand new skis.
And so I always just get the

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bindings, you know, pretty much
wound up as tight as they can go

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so that the skis don't come off.
And and so, you know, I went

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through one of these things.
It was blizzarding, too.

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It was a full whiteout when we
got off the lift.

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And I went through one of these
things going probably 45 miles

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an hour or something, hit some
rocks, started tumbling.

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Of course, my skis stayed on.
So I broke my leg and then my

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knee started twisting, you know,
because the skis were still on.

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So I was a mess.
I was in a cast for, I don't

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know, six months or something.
I've never really been the same

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since then.
Still my leg, you can tell that

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it's been broken badly and
stuff.

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But so yeah, I, number one, I
never skied wasted again, I

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don't think.
And even though I stopped doing

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that when I was like 20 anyways.
But but yeah, I I just learned

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some things, you know, slow down
a little bit perhaps.

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I probably didn't do that then,
but certainly now, yeah.

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So we've got a lot of stuff to
talk about and I can't keep you

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until, you know May when you go
back out with Metallica.

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So let me dive into it a little
bit since I've never had you on

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I, I, I like to, you know, I
like to talk about really kind

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of how you got into the business
a little bit.

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That's kind of important to me
because, you know, obviously our

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industry's looking for new
people all the time.

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And people love to hear these
stories of, you know, back in

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the day when we didn't go to
school for production management

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or lighting design or sound
engineering, we it just kind of

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happened, right?
Like some of the stories are

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hilarious.
Jake Berry's probably one of the

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funniest, but you know, lots of
funny ones.

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Chaz Harrington, I think he was
sitting on his front step

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drinking beer or something and
somebody drove up in a pickup

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truck and said, hey, jump in, I
got a gig for you.

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Come work at the studio and next
thing you know he's a recording

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engineer in a studio.
So how'd you get into it?

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I I That's a interesting
question.

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I was a kid.
I I used to go to concerts.

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It's what I did.
I went to concerts.

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The group of people I hung out
with went to concerts.

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It's what we did.
We went to concerts and saw

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incredible shows.
It was really kind of I I think

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of it as sort of a a a whole
different time in the business

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when it was a lot about music
and stuff and.

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Yeah.
And, you know, went to see

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everything from Yes to King
Crimson to to Cat Stevens or or.

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This is the 70s I'm guessing
then yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, this is.
Back in the 70s, so back in 75,

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I was in a place that no longer
exists, called Milwaukee County

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Stadium.
OK, and Pink Floyd was playing,

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and I'll try to keep the story a
little bit abbreviated 'cause

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it's pretty long story anyhow.
That's the real Pink Floyd, too,

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right?
When?

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When it was still Roger Waters.
And yeah, all of them, yeah.

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There's 100% humidity, 100, you
know, 90 degrees, 100% humidity

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day.
Everybody's getting baked.

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It's the old days when crowd
management was sort of a we'll

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put some plywood up and that'll
keep them contained and

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everybody's lined up to go in
the stadium.

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They open the gates to the
stadium.

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The Milwaukee County Sheriff's
decided going to a a rock show

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was was cause for search and
seizure.

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So there were tons of arrests.
They went through all this stuff

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with people that all got thrown.
I went to the Supreme Court and

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got thrown out.
Anyhow, there's a huge

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thunderstorm coming in.
They try to start the show

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early, so the band wanted to get
the show in.

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They started playing the stuff
that would become the Wish You

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Were Here album and that This
storm is coming.

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You can.
It's a Midwest thunderstorm.

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You know the drops are a size of
silver dollars and and so

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they're playing and people start
pulling Visqueen over the stage,

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right PA stack.
And I'm watching all this go on

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with my keen mind and I'm
thinking, who does this?

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How do they decide this that
looks like a really cool job and

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this guy's got no shirt on
shorts and cowboy boots and you

224
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,760
know, hair down his back.
And this is 1975 and I'm like,

225
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,480
how do you, how would you what
do you how do you work in this

226
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,240
stuff?
What Who decides where all this

227
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,000
goes Like who?
How do they do this?

228
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,600
And anyhow, the thunderstorm
hits, they stop playing.

229
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,880
The thunderstorm clears as as it
happens in the Midwest.

230
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,080
After an hour, or whatever it
is, the band comes out, plays

231
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,040
the entire Dark Side of the Moon
album in its entirety, and as

232
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,920
they sing the line, I'll see you
on the Dark side of the Moon,

233
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,600
the Clouds Part, and There's a
full moon.

234
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,480
So perfect.
Goodness wow.

235
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,440
So perfect that I couldn't
figure out how they projected

236
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:18,840
the moon up there.
And.

237
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,840
It took me a minute to.
Realize this was just a bizarre

238
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,840
phenomenon.
That is wild.

239
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,680
That is why.
Anybody who is there will tell

240
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,320
you that story, if they were
capable of remembering it.

241
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,120
So she's 75.
South.

242
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,160
Here's a funny story.
One of my first ever concerts

243
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:45,160
was Super Tramp Crime of the
Century in in Calgary, Calgary

244
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,800
at the McMahon Stadium.
And my sisters took me, I think,

245
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,640
or my sister and her boyfriend
or something.

246
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,320
And there was a band on Atlanta,
Rhythm Section I think was on,

247
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,000
and the skies opened up.
And so that Visqueen, instead of

248
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,040
going over the PA or whatever,
was coming up off the ground and

249
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,880
became trampolines and became an
umbrella and then became fire to

250
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,680
warm people up at one point.
And I mean, I'm watching all of

251
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,320
this along with the clouds of
weed and everything else flying

252
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,160
around.
And I was like, whoa, I like

253
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,480
concerts.
This is cool.

254
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:30,840
So then a Canadian band came on
called Trooper and and they do

255
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,720
this song.
We're here for a good time, not

256
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,480
a long time.
And it's something about the sun

257
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,320
is shining.
And so the sun came out and

258
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,320
everybody went, whoa, this is so
cool, you know, So it was a

259
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,360
similar story during a similar
time.

260
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,360
It had to be probably 7677 I
guess when?

261
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,480
That so yeah that would have
been the time period for that

262
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,280
for that show.
So anyhow I I had this thing

263
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,640
where I went to school and and
in my home and any of those

264
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,760
things you know I I grew up in a
home where you know turn the

265
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,040
turn the stereo down was a was a
a regular cry.

266
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,120
I played my my stereo too loud.
My dad would go in the break in

267
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,400
the basement and turn the
breaker off to my bedroom.

268
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,080
He had no.
No use for any of it.

269
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,800
Thought I was crazy and none of
the no one ever said, well, if

270
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,680
you're interested in that you
should do this or do that or

271
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,880
anything like that.
Yeah, little did he know, You

272
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,920
know, you'd end up with in a
career with Metallica, you know.

273
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,240
That's he shuffled off to do a
little bit of time at school,

274
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,360
didn't have any money, couldn't
afford that.

275
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,960
Had to find something to do.
And I got involved doing

276
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,120
concerts at school.
Had a little bit of success and

277
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,600
I said, well, I'll go be a
concert promoter now.

278
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,120
I'm 18 years old, nineteen years
old.

279
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,040
I know nothing about business,
money, leverage, finance.

280
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,800
I have no nothing.
I just decided I'd be a concert

281
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,440
promoter.
Well, you know, that didn't work

282
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,960
out very well.
Went home, started working any I

283
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,760
I worked in a factory so that I
could eat and started hanging

284
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,000
out and I'd already been hanging
out.

285
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,520
I knew how to help people move
gear around and stuff from

286
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,720
working.
Hang out at free concert sites

287
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,720
and got involved in the club and
ran the music end of that club.

288
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,079
I was just basically a glorified
bar.

289
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,480
It was a 1000 seat kind of old
theater place with the seats

290
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,000
removed and a dance floor put in
and which then became the floor

291
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,040
for the the rock shows.
About the same size as the

292
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,160
Fillmore is now in San Fran.
Yeah, 800,000 seats.

293
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,720
And this was the halcyon days of
clubs.

294
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,520
Like everybody played clubs.
The police played for us three

295
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,840
times.
Dire Straits, Flock of Seagulls,

296
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,480
Boomtown Rats.
I Faye McMahon was there.

297
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,040
He was probably the oldest guy
in there who still works in the

298
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,880
business.
And Faye was doing lights for

299
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,680
the rats at the time.
And I did the club and worked my

300
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,480
way through the club and then
got a job at a small sound

301
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,200
company and that led to doing
some tours with some pretty big

302
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,880
acts.
And I was just a kid kind of,

303
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,520
you know, moving gear, doing
this, mixing monitors, mix in

304
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,160
front of house, building
distros, figuring out how to

305
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,720
build the PA, doing those
things.

306
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,160
And and then because of my work
at the club, I got to know one

307
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,800
of the local promoters and
started doing when they had two

308
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,800
shows booked.
I did the second show and

309
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,000
backing things up and one thing
led to the next.

310
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,280
Eventually I worked for that
promoter and I don't think you

311
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,680
could take that path.
I mean, I I look at it and it's

312
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,560
like I stuck my fingers in the
wall, in the cracks in the wall

313
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,840
and started clawing my way up.
Even at the club, I was always

314
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,800
trying to make our show special.
We had, you know, favorite bands

315
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,480
that came in, tried to make
their show special, ended up

316
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,800
going on the road for a little
while with one of those bands

317
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,040
that got signed to RCA
Millennium Records.

318
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,480
Drove the truck, set up the
gear, ran the lights or the

319
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,200
sound, put the gear back in the
truck, drove.

320
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,640
We opened for Foreigner and
Cheap Trick and South Side

321
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,920
Johnny and things like that.
But after two albums, they got

322
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,040
dropped and and as happened back
then, when that occurred, you

323
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,120
the band broke up.
Yeah, and just kept following

324
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,360
the path.
Wherever it LED did. 10 years at

325
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,680
Summerfest in Milwaukee, which?
Which band was that, that, that

326
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:13,720
first one that you?
Were talking was.

327
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,440
Called Yipes, they were on RCA
Records.

328
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,320
There was a band called Yipes
out of Milwaukee that got signed

329
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,280
to Jimmy Einer's label.
Our.

330
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,360
Our record Rep on the road with
us.

331
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,480
Our promo guy was Donnie Einer.
She has.

332
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,600
His.
Name.

333
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:27,520
That's.
Wild.

334
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,680
Chicago had a band called Off
Broadway right in the same time

335
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,840
period, kind of a power pop take
off on a Cheap Trick sort of

336
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,840
thing.
And Detroit had a band called

337
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,640
The Romantics, and the Romantics
got signed, did the best of

338
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,320
those three acts.
It was a little band out of

339
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,240
Madison, WI, which is 90 miles
from where I grew up.

340
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,640
And certainly we knew all those
guys and crossed paths.

341
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,480
They had a drummer in the band
named Butch Vig.

342
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,720
So the music, the the music
world was pretty ripe and

343
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,160
pretty, pretty awesome in that
time period.

344
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,240
I didn't know Butch came from
that area and I didn't actually

345
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,440
even really know that he started
as a drummer.

346
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,640
I I knew him first as a producer
and then as a drummer and yeah,

347
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,720
you know, funny Side Story.
So, you know, I'm pretty close

348
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,360
with with the boys at upstaging
and I get a call.

349
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,080
I can't remember if it was HUD
or Donnie called me up and said,

350
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,520
hey, we're doing this corporate
show in Grand Cayman.

351
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,720
Do you want to come diving?
And I said, sure, you know, I'll

352
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,960
be part of the pretend crew.
And it was a gig for like

353
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,680
Gillette or something.
And it was 100 contest winners

354
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,040
for the band Garbage.
So 100 contest winners were

355
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,760
being flown onto the island.
And it was just a concert for

356
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,240
100 people on the beach.
And with full production and

357
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,920
everything, Gillette spent a
fortune.

358
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,720
And so they would finish, you
know, working as much as as

359
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,520
Huddleston and Don Caron were
doing.

360
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,520
And we would walk around the
back of the stage, jump in the

361
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,560
water and walk out a little ways
and and you'd end up in 4050

362
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,000
feet of water, you know, dive in
a wall or something.

363
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,200
It was just beautiful.
It was unbelievable.

364
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,240
But I got to know Butch there,
you know, we went to went

365
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,600
snorkeling and stuff with him
and Shirley, whatever her name

366
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:15,960
is.
And yeah.

367
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,120
I'm very close with with.
Don and and Robert.

368
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,480
Yeah, yeah.
I knew Robert before he was

369
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,080
Robert.
And such nice people.

370
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,720
They were always wonderful to me
and I've always.

371
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,720
I'm very loyal to them.
They.

372
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,880
Were really.
Wonderful to me.

373
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,920
When I was really, really a dumb
kid, you know, doing, doing the

374
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,080
thing with yipes opening for
Cheap Trick and and that whole

375
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,080
thing.
Yeah.

376
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,320
Well, I'll tell you quickly
because I don't want to keep

377
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,880
talking, but so I moved to South
Florida to work for Martin

378
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,440
Lighting in the very early days
of Martin Lighting.

379
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,000
And I remember the first time I
went to visit Upstaging, I

380
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,440
called Huddleston and made an
appointment, and this is 1991 or

381
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,720
something.
And I called him and made an

382
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,280
appointment and I got there and
I was so nervous, 'cause this is

383
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,440
like a real rock'n'roll touring
company, you know, And I'm some

384
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,760
schmuck with a little disco
lighting company.

385
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:15,240
And I get into John's office in
Mundelein and and John says you

386
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,440
want to go shopping.
And I said sure.

387
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,200
And he goes, cool, let's go.
And so we go to some like outlet

388
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,560
mall, and he convinces me to buy
this real piece of crap thing

389
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,320
that was kind of like an Apple
Newton, but not really like a

390
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,240
Casio version of an Apple
Newton.

391
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,000
He convinces me to buy that.
So I buy that thing and then we

392
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,200
go play golf or something.
I mean, we had a whole day of

393
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,200
just screwing off, doing
nothing, and then ended up

394
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,400
meeting Donnie and Robert, I
think later that day for dinner

395
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,120
or whatever.
It was one of the coolest days

396
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,760
ever, You know, It was just like
such a they, they just put me

397
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,680
under their wing and said you're
one of us now, you know?

398
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,200
Really good people.
Yeah, I've been friends with

399
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,720
them ever since.
So I just kept following that

400
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,520
path at around 1990.
The I I was working for a

401
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:10,760
promoter doing a lot of shows.
I was very fortunate that I did

402
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,440
a series of dates and the
accountant I was working with

403
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,200
sort of explained the facts of
life to me in terms of my skill

404
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,080
set and how much money I wasn't
making.

405
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:27,640
And it altered my life very much
So and I ended up there was

406
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,520
nothing more for me to do in
Milwaukee.

407
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,320
I couldn't couldn't really get
to where I wanted to get to work

408
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,200
Wise ended up going on the road.
Scotty Ross.

409
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,280
I had a good relationship as a
promoter with Poison.

410
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,680
Did tons of shows with them.
Did their rehearsals.

411
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,560
Dale left to go do Guns and
Roses and Scotty called me up

412
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,640
and said I want, you know, we
love you, why don't you come do

413
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,360
this thing.
And at that point, I was looking

414
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:52,440
to get out the door anyhow, and
that led to about 10 years of

415
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,080
touring.
So what?

416
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,160
What was the role though, in
that First?

417
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,440
Was it poison you said?
Yeah, I was production manager

418
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,200
with Poison.
Wow, Straight in, huh?

419
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,360
Nice.
Scotty obviously trusted you.

420
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,680
Yeah, Scotty said.
I could never say enough good

421
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,520
things about Scottie.
Ross He's a cool dude.

422
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,760
So we did that and did a couple
of those things and one thing

423
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,960
led to the next.
And a great relationship with Q

424
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,080
Prime over the years doing all
tons of their bands.

425
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,000
The only ones I didn't do were
once I either had a scheduling

426
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,200
conflict or turned down and and
it just was a great, it was a

427
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,200
great thing.
It did about 10 years straight.

428
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,400
I think for the 90s every year I
was 300 days away from home on

429
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,280
my taxes.
Wow.

430
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,560
Jesus.
And then I tried being in a

431
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,320
building for a little while and
did very I was very successful

432
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,640
at it.
But that's way too much work for

433
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,600
not enough money.
I thought the hours on the road

434
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,680
were bad.
But you worked.

435
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,560
The same hours in a building, at
least I did at the level I was

436
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,680
at and you have to drive home at
night.

437
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,240
And boy, that bus is, is that
that bus that you didn't like

438
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,320
Seems pretty attractive.
When you're driving home.

439
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,200
After a 20 hour day.
No kidding.

440
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,280
And then I just kept going and
finally got to a point where I

441
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,880
could do what I always wanted to
do, which was really design

442
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,120
shows and and find great
production partners to help me

443
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:19,440
kind of help help artists.
Have the a vision of the artist

444
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,880
come to life in real time and
and do that whole thing along

445
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,800
the way.
Picked up some corporate clients

446
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,280
and did some fun things figuring
out I could translate some

447
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,840
skills I have into a different
world.

448
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:32,920
Yeah, that's interesting.
So.

449
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,560
I wouldn't recommend the path I
took to anyone.

450
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,040
I tell all my friends, children,
when they say you have a really

451
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,360
cool job, I say yeah, go to law
school, get your law degree.

452
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,360
You don't have to practice law,
but then people work for you and

453
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:47,680
you can do anything you.
Want.

454
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,320
You know what though I don't
know that I completely agree

455
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,040
with you because every lawyer I
know wants my job or or you know

456
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,680
they hate their jobs right.
So I think regardless of what

457
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,040
your job is you got to take the
bad with the good and I think

458
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,120
there's more good in most of
what you do and and I'll say we

459
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,320
I mean we the collective
industry you know I'm.

460
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,320
On my path, I got to do exactly
what I wanted to do.

461
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,400
I took a very difficult path to
get there, worked with great

462
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,440
people almost almost to.
There's very few exceptions to

463
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,400
that comment.
There's very few places.

464
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,080
I wouldn't say we're just
incredible.

465
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,880
People.
And and had a great run.

466
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,160
I got to do what I wanted to do
and I got to see the world and I

467
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,880
got to, you know, I learned how
to do things.

468
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,040
I didn't even know I would be
ever be capable of doing.

469
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,720
So fantastic.
You know, I I spend a lot of

470
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,120
time talking with with people in
our industry, either on the

471
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,560
podcast or in different groups
or whatever, about bringing in

472
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,000
new young talent.
You know, 'cause obviously, I'm,

473
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,440
I'm sure you have the same
problem everybody else does,

474
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,640
getting people.
And one of the one of the first

475
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,000
problems is people think that
it's a gypsy lifestyle.

476
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,160
You know, people think that you
know you.

477
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,680
I mean, some of it's true.
You know, you do live out of a

478
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,600
suitcase.
You are on the road 300 days a

479
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:15,680
year sometimes, but you can make
$100,000 a year very quickly,

480
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,960
you know, especially now when
when people are being paid a lot

481
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,520
more money than they were being
paid 5-6 years ago.

482
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,040
And so, you know, I think for
young people who are undecided

483
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,920
on what they want to do in their
life, it's not necessarily a bad

484
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,840
direction.
Like, I know a lot of kids going

485
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,320
to law school who hate lawyers,
hate the law, don't want to be a

486
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,080
lawyer.
But it's just what they're

487
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,200
doing, you know?
I don't think it's a bad

488
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,800
direction if you're willing to
work.

489
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:50,600
I think the I don't want to I
don't want to pontificate here

490
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,000
but I think the thing that I see
that has shifted in the business

491
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,880
when we collectively we kind of
that you know I don't know what

492
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,720
a third generation group of
people who who I'm sort of part

493
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,400
of that that you know late 70s
thing maybe that's 3rd or 4th

494
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:12,760
generation whatever the heck it
is people there was an an

495
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,320
unstoppable attitude nothing was
was and and we didn't order more

496
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,640
equipment we learned how to make
things work and and we died

497
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,320
doing it.
You know, I have a lot of

498
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,440
friends who have limps and
injuries and you know all sorts

499
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,400
of of things from doing that
work and it and you know the the

500
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,040
life on the road is first work.
And if you're willing to adopt

501
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,520
that attitude you can you can be
very, very successful.

502
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,560
But it is, you know, it's not
easy.

503
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,640
You know, they show that
Metallica is doing right now is

504
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,920
this massive construction
project that goes on and it's a

505
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,560
lot of work.
Yeah, you know, it's it's funny.

506
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,440
My girlfriend always says she's
British and from the same

507
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,520
generation and and she says, you
know, part of the problem is

508
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,200
we've wrapped our kids in.
I forget what she says, bubble

509
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,200
wrap and whatever.
And you know, they they all grow

510
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,080
up thinking they're special and
thinking they're going to be

511
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,480
taken care of forever and all of
that.

512
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,360
And unfortunately that creates a
little bit of softness to where,

513
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,800
you know, we come from a
background like you said, where

514
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,000
we just find a way to get it
done.

515
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,320
You know the equipment has
changed dramatically too and

516
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,800
ordering equipment has become a
has become a skill for a road

517
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,240
person to have.
And and you know I remember the

518
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,080
day when somebody explained to
me how digital audio was going

519
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,400
to work.
I remember exactly where I was

520
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,720
and that, you know, wow, that's
going to be unbelievable.

521
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,960
And and the advent of the Lin
Drum machine and polyphonic

522
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,320
synthesizers.
Right.

523
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,720
And and now all of that stuff is
like a cornucopia of things you

524
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,680
can order and maybe you know how
to use them and maybe you don't

525
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,480
but you saw that your friend
Billy on some other tours got

526
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,080
two of those.
So you need. 4.

527
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,680
And I find that that's an odd
thing in in our business.

528
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,720
It is.
Is is work and excellence and

529
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,760
striving for excellence, just
striving to be as good as you

530
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,040
can be.
I think that is the the people

531
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,440
of my generation when I think of
Jake or Charlie or Dale.

532
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,680
A lot of guys who were striving
for excellence you know and and

533
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,960
and you know the list is is
endless whether it's Benny or

534
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,480
whether it's Chris Lamb or
whether it's Jerry Stickles or

535
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,280
or and and people passed down
that passion for excellence that

536
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:40,760
that that thing just trying to
be as good as you could possibly

537
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,520
be and always taking care of the
show and making sure that that

538
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,920
that what what you did prepared
the best environment possible

539
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,240
for the artist on stage to
present the best possible that

540
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,920
showed that they could to their
audience.

541
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:56,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

542
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,240
That makes sense.
That that was a passion at a

543
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,920
level that made no sense.
What?

544
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,560
Why else would you work 22 hours
a day and and do all the other

545
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,640
crazy things and and there were
tons of, you know, nobody knew

546
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,520
how to do a lot of the stuff
that was going on.

547
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,520
The guys who were doing the
rigging, the guys who were

548
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,920
putting the boxes together, the
guys who were putting the lights

549
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,880
together were like, well how are
we going to do this?

550
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,880
I don't know.
We'll we'll we'll figure it out.

551
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,680
And you know the the, the roll
call of names is tremendous.

552
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,800
And I was fortunate as a
promoter from 80 to 90 to work

553
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,040
with all of these different
folks and watch what they were

554
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,480
doing and be inspired by that
passion and that the show, the

555
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,560
show, the show, this has to be
correct there.

556
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,760
There has to be a rabbit in the
hat when the magician puts his

557
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:50,240
hand in to pull it out and and
nothing can stop that and

558
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,600
inspired by that.
Yeah, I mean even down to the,

559
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,320
to the, like, I love the early
days of audio where, you know,

560
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,120
we need more sound and they
built bigger boxes.

561
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,280
You know, somebody went back to
the shop and built bigger boxes

562
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,760
that had four eighteens in them
instead of two eighteens or

563
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,360
whatever, you know, And I loved
that.

564
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,840
Like it was just, it was not
only, you know, ingenuity or or

565
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,240
whatever you want to call it,
but it was just like, let's get

566
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,320
this done.
You know, we got to do this.

567
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,800
And I think they were, you know,
I'm very fortunate to work with,

568
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,160
you know, with a great
management company that was

569
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,680
inspired to figure out how to
make those things work.

570
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,040
You know, kind of Jake and that
whole tribe of people figured

571
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,800
out Michael Tate and and you
know, the guys at Clarin that

572
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,080
figured out how to make it.
You know, they put the roll in

573
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,440
rock'n'roll, You know, You know,
the wheel was invented a long

574
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,200
time ago.
Michael Tate figured out how we

575
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:53,800
could use it in rock'n'roll and
and you know it's just it's what

576
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,480
an awesome inspiring thing that
that whole story of how it came

577
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,040
together because nobody had a
book.

578
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,000
You know what I mean?
There was no book telling anyone

579
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,200
how to do this so well We'll try
this so that doesn't work.

580
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,520
Let's do this and and and I
watched that from 80 to 90 and

581
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,520
then when I went out I was able
to do that.

582
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,680
And I've always been inspired
with photography and

583
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,720
architecture and and other
things and finding the way

584
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,680
people like Marc Fisher married
those things together in the

585
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,560
shows.
I just think that passion and

586
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,200
inspiration.
I don't know.

587
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,360
I I hope it still exists in our
business.

588
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,840
It's all very different.
People coming up feel the burn

589
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,840
of the music.
I think, you know, we'll get old

590
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,720
and you get kind of a little
jaded, maybe a little cynical,

591
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,520
right?
And and I try not to, you know,

592
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,560
I I beg.
To be reminded why I started

593
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,920
doing this, you know, we we just
did a show in DC.

594
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,800
The guys just played a show, the
Gershwin Awards, with Elton John

595
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,040
and Bernie Top.
And being.

596
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,920
Honored.
And we were there at the show

597
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,200
and I just, I walked out of
there and Oh yeah, that's why I

598
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:01,760
do.
This.

599
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,720
No kidding, huh?
Yeah, that's and that's cool.

600
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,719
And I know if the young people
find that hook in the music that

601
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,880
that it's not about the check,
it's not about the 100 grand you

602
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,960
can make.
It's not about the bus, it's not

603
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,760
about the party.
It's all about those things.

604
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,639
I'm quoting a line from the
Journey, The old Journey video

605
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,080
Frontiers, you know.
Yeah, it's about all.

606
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,480
Those things.
But it's about the show and the

607
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,719
music and and and creating
something magical.

608
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,639
When people go see it, they
remember that you're talking

609
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,280
about a Supertramp concert you
saw X number years ago, and I'm

610
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,239
talking about a Floyd show that
I saw in 1975.

611
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,280
That's almost just about 50
years ago.

612
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,840
I have a friend who his name is
Randy.

613
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,920
He's 65 now, I think he's one of
my best friends.

614
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,199
And he still goes to almost
every single concert that comes

615
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:57,280
through and he's got every
ticket back to like Poplar Creek

616
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,600
and 'cause he grew up in Chicago
and he's got, he's got every

617
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,280
ticket from every concert he's
ever been to.

618
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,160
And you know, like he's seen
Aerosmith like 30 times.

619
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,480
And like every band, he's seen
them from their earliest days

620
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,160
till now.
I love that passion.

621
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,520
I hope that the young people
come.

622
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,480
It's incredible business.
Have that fire.

623
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,240
And I worry about that.
And, you know, I know people

624
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,640
think that I beg on young people
all the time, and I don't

625
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,800
because, you know, we're
counting on you guys and girls.

626
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,200
Like we're really counting on
you.

627
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,960
But, you know, I think you lose
something.

628
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,200
Like you got into this because
of that Pink Floyd show.

629
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,320
You know, I'm in this because in
my early days I was a musician

630
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,640
and then I met this guy named
Bear from Brimstone Productions

631
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,600
in Calgary.
I don't know if you ever met

632
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,560
Bear but Bear was like the
promoter in in Calgary at the

633
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,880
time.
Big, huge guy like you'd call a

634
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,240
guy Bear, you know, furry face
and stuff.

635
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,400
And somehow I was working
security for him at at the arena

636
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,240
shows there at the Calgary
Corral.

637
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,000
And you know, I was a scrawny
little guy with hair halfway

638
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,680
down my back.
And I have no idea how I was

639
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,480
security, but I was and I just,
I loved it.

640
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,680
I was like, this needs to be my
future.

641
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,720
I want to be in this business.
And I never toured, but you

642
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:18,000
know, I've I've always been
around either as a musician or

643
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,640
supplier of some sort, just love
it, you know, It's just it.

644
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,760
So I wonder, like us, we came
into it because of a passion for

645
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,680
the music and the show.
I just wonder if people who went

646
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,240
to school and for, you know,
technical arts or whatever it's

647
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,040
called these days.
And I wonder if you come in with

648
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,120
the same sort of passion.
I just don't know.

649
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,480
Like, maybe they do.
Like, I know theater people

650
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,600
still seem to have that same
passion for the show and for the

651
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,320
art and all of that stuff.
But I don't know, It's hard.

652
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,320
To say it seems to exist in
theater.

653
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,800
I've been fortunate to speak at
at some seminars at universities

654
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,720
and and that group of people
seems to have the fire for for

655
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:06,560
not only figuring out how we did
things and how it came about and

656
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,560
and what the vision of the
future is.

657
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,680
I also have a a interestingly
and ethical sense of of duty to

658
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,880
make sure that all of these kind
of video manipulations and AI

659
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,280
things and and stuff like that
are used correctly.

660
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,960
I was actually going to ask you
about your thoughts on that.

661
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,880
Inspiring from from these young
people that they were thinking

662
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,000
ahead along those lines like
well this, this, this technology

663
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:38,240
could be used in some really bad
ways and and at least the folks

664
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,320
that I've seen in these seminars
who talk about this are

665
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,760
interested in protecting that
and I think that's awesome.

666
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,360
Yeah, you know, it's an
interesting, it's an interesting

667
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,120
topic, you know and and I love
talking about it.

668
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,160
I actually just had a couple
pretty technical people on this

669
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480
week on the podcast that we had
fairly lengthy conversations

670
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,800
about it.
One is you know, a product

671
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:06,080
development engineer for Elation
and Richard Kadina.

672
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,560
Do you know Richard Kadina?
I know elation.

673
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,800
I don't know Richard.
I may have met Richard.

674
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,000
Very technical guy, yeah, very
technical guy.

675
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,840
Worked at high end for years and
now he goes around teaching

676
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,000
stage electrics and and safety
and stuff and just really,

677
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,240
really super smart guy.
But we've been talking about it

678
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:27,000
and you know it's it's an
interesting conversation because

679
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,760
nobody wants to see it start to
water down the business or take

680
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,240
away jobs or anything like that.
But it's coming and and so you

681
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,560
know, where does it fit, where
doesn't it fit?

682
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,480
All of those things.
Like I was talking to somebody a

683
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,960
couple days ago who was telling
me about a show that all of the

684
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,520
images that were going up onto
the LED screen behind the band

685
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:53,520
were AI generated like on the
spot, you know at the console,

686
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:54,960
boom.
They were being sent up to the

687
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,920
wall and and there it was.
And it was incredible.

688
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,920
And you know, I don't know like,
I mean where, whose, whose jobs

689
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,000
topple first?
Which jobs go down first?

690
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,400
It's another, you know, it's
another tool.

691
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,720
A friend of mine was at a a
conference and they were talking

692
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:18,280
about AI and music and your
songwriting and whatnot and he

693
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,800
was hosting the panel and he he
said that Don was was in the

694
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,240
audience and he needed to steer
the thing in an interesting

695
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:26,360
direction.
So he asked Don was to comment,

696
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:31,840
and Don said it's a tool.
Either learn how to use it, you

697
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,400
know.
Yeah.

698
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,320
Behind and I think, I think
these are tools and we have to

699
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,640
figure out how to use them in a
way that's practical.

700
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,440
I went and saw the ABBA show in
London and what do you think of

701
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,120
that person I was with was part
of the show and he turned to me

702
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,680
afterwards and looks like, what
do you think?

703
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,120
I said, I don't know.
I think I might have just seen

704
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,640
the best concert I've ever been
at in.

705
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,240
Really.
Wow.

706
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,080
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah.

707
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,400
And I mean, we're in the
entertainment business, right?

708
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,800
So our job is to entertain.
And and the idea is to to find

709
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,560
platforms that work to do that.
I feel blessed.

710
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,400
I I always say I get to work in
the best sandbox in the world

711
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,480
because the four guys I work for
play as a band and we use Pro

712
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Tools to record.
So you know, other than obvious

713
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,120
intro tapes and things like that
we use Pro Tools to record.

714
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,480
And I think all of us who've
been around the guys for a long

715
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,800
time love that thing, that
they're a band.

716
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,040
They're a same place guys that
we're all lies on the block.

717
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:32,680
No tracks, No tracks other than.
Intros and stuff here are

718
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,120
obviously tracks.
They're.

719
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,640
They're wow, that.
That are intros to the show.

720
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,880
That's impressive.
That's really, really

721
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,880
impressive.
By all that.

722
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,440
Yeah, I certainly do.
The vocals, everything, it's all

723
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,640
live.
That is, that is really.

724
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,560
Interesting, including the
clunkers.

725
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,000
So few bands are doing that now
as you know, like even the bands

726
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,200
that we think are are doing all
live, you know there's.

727
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,360
Stunning.
How many people are?

728
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,000
Well, you know, I don't know if
it's rumor or what, but like the

729
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,640
stuff that was coming out last
year about Mötley Crüe where the

730
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:13,360
entire base, every bass track
was all done on track.

731
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,400
It wasn't played live and stuff.
Yeah, I don't know.

732
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,760
Either I don't want to know.
No, no, me neither.

733
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,720
That was part of that.
I've been involved in.

734
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:24,280
I've been involved in some shows
years ago.

735
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,400
Yeah, where there was a lot of
that.

736
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,200
And I always thought that's
that's wrong.

737
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:30,960
That's just me, right?
I'm not.

738
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,640
I'm not certificating to anyone.
I just felt like, oh, that's

739
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,680
that's weird it.
Feels really inauthentic, you

740
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,480
know, unauthentic.
I like live music.

741
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,480
Yeah, but I mean, you can
understand it.

742
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,840
And I'm not suggesting this is
who you were talking about, but

743
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,800
you can understand when it's
Madonna or Shakira or, you know,

744
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,840
somebody who really is doing
this super intense dancing and

745
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,600
jumping around and all that kind
of stuff.

746
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,200
Like it's hard to hit, you know?
Every.

747
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,240
Absolutely.
You know, you watch Janet

748
00:41:58,240 --> 00:41:59,800
Jackson.
It's like, whoa.

749
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,920
Yeah, are.
You going to sing and be able to

750
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,120
breathe that?
There is some truth to that,

751
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,480
right?
There is some truth to that.

752
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,880
It's an entertainment thing.
You know, I saw the, I remember

753
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,040
when *NSYNC was in their heyday
and and that kind of stuff.

754
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,600
And I thought, you know, these
are fantastic shows.

755
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,520
They're they're not Eric Clapton
playing something for you, but

756
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,120
they're fantastic shows.
Yeah, yeah.

757
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,480
And I kind of like the Eric
Clapton thing, you know, like

758
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,560
I've always been one who loves
live music, you know, and and

759
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:35,440
you know, I have some fairly
unpopular thoughts on the size

760
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,200
of some of the shows and how
distracting they are, you know,

761
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,520
to to the band.
And you know, Mark Brickman was

762
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,200
saying to me one day, he had
just gone out and seen the

763
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,880
Stones when he was on the
podcast and you know, the the

764
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,560
one with the four iPhones behind
them, the big video screens that

765
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,440
looked like iPhones.
And he said, you know, the

766
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,800
problem was those big screens
made Mick Jagger look small.

767
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,440
And I completely got what he was
saying, you know, like the if

768
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,280
they were imag, it's one thing,
you know, but when there's a

769
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,000
bunch of visual stuff going on
and it's it's why I have mixed

770
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,960
feelings on the U2 thing.
The sphere, you know, it's it's

771
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,600
spectacular.
But I had to, I haven't seen it

772
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,920
live.
I just saw it on video and when

773
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,200
I watched the first video of it,
I had to sit for like 30 seconds

774
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,800
trying to find Bono.
I couldn't find him.

775
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,640
You know, where is the stage?
Where is the singer, you know?

776
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,480
And that to me is just that's
not seeing a band.

777
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,240
Let's think.
As a designer, that's part of

778
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:43,720
the challenge.
I think it is.

779
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,320
It certainly is.
Is first and foremost in my

780
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,920
thinking of stuff we do now.
That's coming from a guy who has

781
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:56,240
a pretty big show playing
stadiums right now, backing up

782
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,880
another big show that played
stadiums, backing up a big show

783
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,760
that played arenas and stuff.
But I think people want to have

784
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:11,680
a spectacular experience.
Yeah, but for that, for my core

785
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,600
kind of thinking and design,
first and foremost has to be the

786
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,320
band.
You know, and I would say

787
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:19,640
that's.
Important to me.

788
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,200
It's going to sound like I'm
blowing smoke, Dan, but you've

789
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:28,160
done a tremendous job of it.
Like for you, the show is big,

790
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,280
but the band is always.
You never have to look for the

791
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,120
band.
You can find the band quite

792
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,680
easily.
That's a huge compliment because

793
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,840
that's to me.
The band is central on your big

794
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,280
designs, you know, like I
remember the one where the the

795
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,120
guy fell out of the Truss and
things were blowing up and all

796
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,680
that stuff.
I forget what that was.

797
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,400
But I'm, I'm close with John
Broderick and I was hanging out

798
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,640
at front of house with him and
he didn't tell me what was going

799
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,120
to happen or anything.
And I was like.

800
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,160
Holy shit, John Jesus.
We got to do something, you

801
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,240
know, and like looking for
radios and stuff so I can help.

802
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,440
And he's like settle down, man.
But you know that show, like,

803
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,720
you know, it was almost like a
rehearsal because the show

804
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:13,240
seemed so secondary, but it was
such an incredible show, the

805
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,280
lights and and video and
everything, right?

806
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,800
You know it's not in the way
about.

807
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640
That show, that was a That was
the high end.

808
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,640
What the heck was a studio
color?

809
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,240
Yeah, yeah, lots of them.
Yeah.

810
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,480
And we had. 108 of them.
Yeah, from Obi's I think, wasn't

811
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,720
it?
I believe they came from Obi's.

812
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,440
Yeah, I think Wiseman was at
Obi.

813
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,480
'S yeah no.
Wiseman was.

814
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,440
So Wiseman and I both started at
high end systems.

815
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,400
We started at high end the same
day and it was it was during

816
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,880
right when you were getting
ready to go out with that show.

817
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:51,000
Right and.
That's where the that's where

818
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,560
the wash color wash color wash
beam.

819
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,120
What was it anyhow?
Was a John did a great job.

820
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,160
Studio colors.
Yeah, yeah, Studio colors.

821
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,000
Yeah, it.
Was a.

822
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,800
It was a great show.
But but again, like, yeah, I

823
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,760
mean every time I've seen
Metallica.

824
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,560
The first review I read of of of
M72 when we opened in Amsterdam,

825
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,480
The first English speaking
review I found was talked about

826
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,840
the making the stadium feel
intimate and that's exactly

827
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,880
that's, you know, we're trying
to make a club, but how do you

828
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,960
reach 80,000 people and make it
a club?

829
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,720
Well that's that that's and
that's that's the magic, right.

830
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:29,240
I mean, I don't know if there's
magic, if I'm good at something.

831
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:30,880
I I always love reading
intimate.

832
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,600
I always love, you know, I
always love elegant and

833
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,640
simplicity and and things like
that.

834
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,760
And I mean there's no simplicity
in the show we're doing right

835
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,960
now, but we're trying to make it
so that people can have a an

836
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,000
experience with the band and not
every band is doing that, not

837
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,680
every band.
That's not the goal of every

838
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,960
band and you have to design in
context.

839
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,640
When I'm working with a
corporate client maybe they want

840
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,000
that maybe they don't what what
are we trying to do here what's

841
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,080
your message and and certainly
in in my world you know that's

842
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,840
why I love working in the round
because I was that kid who went

843
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,480
to concert.
So the only way you can take the

844
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,000
worst seats in the house and
make them twice as good as move

845
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,360
the stage.
So, so let's move the stage to

846
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,440
the middle and give everybody a
good shot at this thing And and

847
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:22,000
it creates some magic that that
if if the presenter or

848
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,120
entertainer can work in that
environment can create some real

849
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,880
magical moments.
You know with Metallica it's an

850
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,760
interesting thing because we're
working with a long term fan

851
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,640
base.
You know I think we're probably

852
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,560
there may be some four
generation people.

853
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,600
There certainly are three
generation people in the

854
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,960
audience, and.
That is incredible, really.

855
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,000
You know, where did your
experience begin?

856
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,360
Where did your journey with the
Metallica family start and

857
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,480
what's meaningful to you?
Because the the guy who found

858
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:59,800
Metallica on M72 isn't the same
guy who found Metallica on Ride

859
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,560
the Lightning.
How do we make the show special

860
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,080
for all those people so that
everybody who comes can have an

861
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,160
experience and and I think we
found some great magic I work

862
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,960
with.
You know, I mean we've been

863
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,840
blessed with great sound people.
Currently Greg Price is just

864
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,240
crushing it.
Rob Koenig is, is is my partner

865
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:20,840
in crime.
I like to say I do the

866
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,080
architecture and Rob does the
art and we've been able to

867
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,640
create great things together and
and and I've hopefully given him

868
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,840
that given him the layout and
the tools and the number of

869
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,720
instruments and all those things
and we go through long

870
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:37,200
processes, sweating through it.
Gene McAuliffe our our Video

871
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:42,320
Director is stunning.
Dave the guy who puts the stuff

872
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,240
on the screens in time because
we're not running the time code.

873
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:49,120
We're not doing all of the cues
are manual so all the videos are

874
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,840
cut into little tiny snips.
So if the band's playing a

875
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,640
little faster, slower the cues
were and Dave Leonard is is

876
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,360
stunning and and you know Joe
Cabrera and Cat W, the folks who

877
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,840
programmed the show and we have
this magical team that we're

878
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,600
trying to create that journey,
we're trying to create a

879
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,760
narrative.
So no matter when you join the

880
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,320
Metallica family to use
Hetfield's words, we have

881
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,520
something there that's going to
bring you along and make you

882
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:19,680
feel special that you're having
a one to one relationship with

883
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,440
the band.
Well you're having this huge

884
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,560
communal social relationship
watching something you love.

885
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,360
And I'm lucky I get to work for
a great band.

886
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,440
Yeah, for a long time now too.
So the where, you know I read

887
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,760
somewhere that you're you're
like a big fan of of art like

888
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:43,040
specifically Michelangelo type
of art or whatever and so does

889
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,320
that.
Is that part of the inspiration?

890
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,440
Absolutely.
I I think you know art

891
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:57,200
architecture certainly drives
certainly drive a bunch of a

892
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,360
bunch of what I'm doing.
I'm always looking at

893
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,280
architecture.
I'm looking at things and trying

894
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,800
to find a different point of
entry, if you will.

895
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:12,720
Yeah.
You know, I don't want to do so.

896
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:15,200
I have this picture that Jim
Marshall took, which is the

897
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,840
inside gatefold of the Woodstock
event.

898
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,320
It was taken upstage, center at
Woodstock, pointed out at the

899
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,440
crowd.
And it's the gatefold from the

900
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,320
album thing.
I actually have a a print of it

901
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,480
that that Jim Marshall did and
signed and whatever, and he's a

902
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:36,520
great photographer, a bit of a a
segment of our history and you

903
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,320
have a band on stage.
There's a turntable stage, which

904
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,840
I'm told didn't work at
Woodstock.

905
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,240
It worked once and fell apart.
But but somebody like Chipmunk

906
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:47,840
or someone like that had this
idea we can do these changeovers

907
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,440
faster if we have this
turntable.

908
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,040
It didn't work because it was
too heavy and that, whatever.

909
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:53,600
I don't know the whole story of
that, but.

910
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,480
Sounds like a good idea though.
We've got this turntable, we've

911
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,600
we figured out how to do it now,
but we have this turntable and

912
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,160
you've got some PA column stacks
and there's a little bit of

913
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,200
lighting, but the lighting never
worked, 'cause they couldn't get

914
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,720
the roof together, 'cause they
moved the site too quickly.

915
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,680
And you have the spotlight
towers and you got this crowd in

916
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,000
front of it.
And I look at that and I think

917
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,680
that's a long time ago.
Yeah, we have to do something

918
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:25,000
better to deliver this
relationship of band and

919
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,040
audience.
Because, like with Metallica,

920
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,160
the show is about the band
driving some energy, spilling

921
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,400
the energy into the crowd, the
crowd amplifying it, sending it

922
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,600
back to the band, giving them a
kick in the pants.

923
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,960
The band then re amplifying it,
sending it back to the crowd.

924
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,800
And that cycle is a Metallica
show, yeah.

925
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,520
So as a designer.
Always has.

926
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,520
What can I do to not get in the
way of that?

927
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,080
Yeah.
It's a funny approach that I

928
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,520
take.
I I I had James really confused

929
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,480
explaining it.
I was like, I don't want to get

930
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:54,880
in the way of that.
You.

931
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,480
See, because they do that by
themselves, I'm trying to create

932
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,880
a great platform for them to
have an to have an interaction

933
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,360
with their fans.
Nobody's buying a ticket to see

934
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,480
me, right?
What a great thing.

935
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:12,280
To see James and Lars and Kirk
and Rob, OK, so how do I create

936
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,840
a platform and get Rob Koenig
and Gene and and and Dave and

937
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,280
and Greg Price and and our
monitor guys?

938
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,000
And I'm like this whole thing.
How do we make this environment

939
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,840
so the band can do what they do
at the best possible level?

940
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:33,000
It can happen because if we do
our job well, the band will do

941
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:34,160
theirs.
Yeah.

942
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,120
And so it's a really fun
environment to work.

943
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,480
In you know they're they're one
band that like you know if I had

944
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,080
to to describe a live Metallica
show you know with one word it,

945
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,640
it'd probably be energy you know
and and like that energy is is 2

946
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,440
directions like you said it's
the fans feeding off the band.

947
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,760
The band feeding off the fans
and like even and I'm sure you

948
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:59,200
were heavily involved in this
process but the the thing that

949
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,520
that you guys did during COVID
with like the I don't remember

950
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,680
the number but two or three
thousand video, 22 or 3000

951
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,720
little video things and you know
like Hatfield was going you

952
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,840
right there, Bob in Wisconsin or
whatever.

953
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,760
Right.
And I mean what a like I hated

954
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,680
virtual shows.
I hated them with a passion.

955
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,680
That one was incredible.
That one was so cool.

956
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,400
Wiseman actually is the one who
who I think invited me into that

957
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:31,440
or something.
I don't remember.

958
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,680
How I got it We wanted to do
something different.

959
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,960
My work in the corporate world
is with tech people, so I knew

960
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,760
what we could do.
I found some people who could

961
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:47,120
help me do it and and the folks
at Firefly were amazing and

962
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,160
pulling it off.
I mean you know you call the

963
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,280
company like can you do this?
Oh yeah, we can do that.

964
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,640
We can do that.
Not everybody delivers and they

965
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:58,320
get it out of the power and as
the band was walking into that 4

966
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,960
sided video wall enclosure they
looked at me like is this going

967
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,360
to work or is this going to be
whatever And I was like all you

968
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,640
need to do is go play from it.
The longest time that I talked

969
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,560
to Lars about this, and we
determined that the longest time

970
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,200
in their history that Metallica
had not played live in front of

971
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,760
their fans was between the show
prior to that and that show.

972
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,120
Really.
Wow.

973
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,000
So that's crazy.
I knew that the band was

974
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,400
desperate to get in front of
their fans.

975
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,480
I don't mean desperate, like
freaking out about it, but they

976
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,440
are a live band that thrives on
their audience and having that

977
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,360
communication.
You, you called it energy.

978
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,800
I call it communication, OK?
They're communicating back and

979
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,600
forth.
And I assumed in the middle of

980
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:52,560
COVID that the Metallica family
was in the same place trying to

981
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:56,040
get to Metallica.
And so I looked at the guys and

982
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,360
I said just go play.
And they walked out there in 15

983
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,040
seconds into it.
You could see the look on their

984
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,160
faces.
We're playing live in front of

985
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,640
our fans and it was a special,
special.

986
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,760
It was a very special event.
Well, because let's.

987
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,960
Get it?
Great, great, great technical

988
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,280
team.
I am so fortunate to work with

989
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,960
the people I work with.
Yeah, most of those sucks so bad

990
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,240
though A roll.
Call because nobody does any of

991
00:55:19,240 --> 00:55:22,040
this stuff by themselves.
Most of those.

992
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,000
Come from great, great, great
teams and I'm blessed.

993
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,240
I've mentioned a couple of
minutes but I have so fortunate

994
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:31,280
to work with the people I.
Work well, yeah.

995
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,000
I mean, you know, Metallica is
the top of the food chain.

996
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,360
Obviously you get to pick
whoever you want to work with at

997
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,240
this point I'm guessing, but you
know that again, I can't.

998
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:43,080
We have a lot of home.
I have to.

999
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:44,800
I've got to compliment some of
my guys.

1000
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,440
We've got a lot of homegrown
talent.

1001
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:47,320
We've got a lot.
Of Oh yeah.

1002
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:53,480
We we we came together and we
found a way to make 1 + 1 equal

1003
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:59,200
3 and and then we found a way to
make 1 + 1 + 1 equal 4 and then

1004
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,520
we found a way to make 1 + 1 + 1
+ 1 = 7.

1005
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,520
Yeah, and I'm real proud of it.
One you keep just, you keep just

1006
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,400
going like this.
Like you keep raising the bar.

1007
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,600
Everything you guys do, every,
every new tour, every, whatever.

1008
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,720
You know, regardless of what the
album does, the tours are

1009
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,560
incredible.
You know, every single one of.

1010
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:20,520
Them.
That's really kind.

1011
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,160
Yeah, well, you know, I'm not
blowing smoke.

1012
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,480
I I wish I had something to
complain about.

1013
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,040
Like even your virtual show,
like I said, I can't state it

1014
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,200
enough.
They all sucked.

1015
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,880
I hated every virtual show I saw
because number one, there was no

1016
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,440
energy and there shouldn't be
like a band is sitting there

1017
00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:38,480
playing to cameras.
It's really hard to do,

1018
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,680
especially when you're a band
like Metallica.

1019
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,720
You know, you're a rock band
that is like in your face rock,

1020
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:49,120
right?
And but but you know the way

1021
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,200
that you guys did that gave them
that energy because they had

1022
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,400
people giving them feedback on
these screens, you know, and and

1023
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,600
I saw like Tony Robbins did
that, Tony Robbins did that.

1024
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,240
He created that whole studio,
right?

1025
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,320
Yeah, that communication is is
the deal.

1026
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,520
Yeah.
So.

1027
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,600
Yeah, no that that was very
cool.

1028
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:14,320
I I really again, it's the only
one that that I thought really

1029
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:20,200
did it well and I told I told
the guys at at fire play that

1030
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,960
and and yeah you know it was
done well.

1031
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,240
Bravo.
You don't.

1032
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,960
You don't actually.
So sorry.

1033
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:29,680
Going back to the creative
process.

1034
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,680
So you were saying that art and
and architecture and I'm

1035
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,640
guessing architecture is like
the the shape of the trussing,

1036
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,720
the lines and things like that.
That's where that comes into

1037
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,040
play a lot I.
Guess a lot of it in what I'm

1038
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:46,680
trying to do is proportions, you
know?

1039
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,160
OK, so you get a clever idea.
How do we make it so it's fits

1040
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,200
in the building correctly?
We had a really rough rehearsal

1041
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:58,640
schedule on M72 and never really
got to do production rehearsals

1042
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:03,720
the way I wish we could have.
And I was really nervous.

1043
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,320
Not a little bit.
I was petrified when we were

1044
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:14,120
starting the first night and I
was, if if you do this, you

1045
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:18,760
understand pressure and nerves
at a different level, especially

1046
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,240
something on the scale of what
what this thing was.

1047
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,240
And I just was like, I don't
know if we have this and it's

1048
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:26,960
the first time I've ever felt
like that.

1049
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,760
I I I've done other things where
I didn't know till I saw it put

1050
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,640
up when we did S and M2 with the
rings at at the Chase Center

1051
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,200
when I walked in and I just
stuck my head, the rings were

1052
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:39,760
all about 10 feet off the
ground.

1053
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,320
They were just hanging there
with a little bit of of test

1054
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,560
pattern on them.
I just poked my head around the

1055
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,520
vomitory and looked them.
I went, Oh no, this is going to

1056
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:47,840
be fantastic.
I knew.

1057
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,080
I knew we had something magic
and this one I did not.

1058
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,960
And right before the show
started the first night, and I

1059
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:02,160
was, I was, I was physically
nervous and I looked at the

1060
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,000
thing and I went, man, this
stadium is really small.

1061
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,920
And I just went, oh, OK.
All right, we got this.

1062
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:10,720
That's.
Cool.

1063
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,920
Because it's the proportions and
and trying to get it all to fit

1064
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,080
right.
Because again, nobody's coming

1065
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,400
to see what I did.
Everybody's coming and everybody

1066
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,800
sees what I did.
Everybody sees what the creative

1067
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,040
process was.
Everybody sees what Rob does.

1068
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,120
Everybody and everybody sees
what Gene does every night.

1069
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,200
But they're not buying a ticket
for that.

1070
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:29,680
We're just.
Supporting these four guys who

1071
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,120
do what they do and it's about
getting the proportions right,

1072
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,960
and then hopefully you come up
with something a little bit

1073
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,840
clever, like how to put speakers
in a place where there's no

1074
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,880
ceiling.
Yeah, how so?

1075
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,520
When you're doing in the round?
This is a really dumb question

1076
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,760
because I've just never been
involved in the technical

1077
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,920
aspects of a system for in the
round.

1078
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,480
But are you using twice as much
audio, or is it more than that?

1079
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,880
Well, we did something very
unique on this show, which is

1080
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:04,680
also you can blame on me, Greg
Price is is an incredible

1081
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:11,560
partner to work with.
And I have for years wanted to

1082
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,840
create near field monitors in an
80,000 seat stadium.

1083
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,200
So the first thing we had to
figure out how to do was create

1084
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,080
stereo sound throughout a
stadium.

1085
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:30,320
So we have a very large PA
trying to create stereo images

1086
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,720
and we're capturing about 84580,
eighty 5% of the seats in

1087
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:39,240
stereo.
Wow, so is that just a lot, a

1088
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,360
lot more smaller speakers?
Is that how that works?

1089
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,520
Or.
It's it's something different

1090
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,000
than putting up a big pile of
speakers and pointing them down

1091
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,720
the field and turning them up
really loud.

1092
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,600
Yeah.
And which is my reference to

1093
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,320
that Woodstock picture?
Yeah.

1094
01:00:55,080 --> 01:01:00,760
And So what we've done is we've
created stereo imaging left,

1095
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,320
right, left, right, left, right.
As you go around the stadium,

1096
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,560
the the image might be backwards
but it's still a stereo image

1097
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,000
which opens up a ton of things
because it allows Greg to do a

1098
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,440
bunch of of the the the
soundscape is this big stereo

1099
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,880
image instead of this mono thing
that you're trying to ram

1100
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:26,240
everything down this pipe and
and and Greg is, you know, it's

1101
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,120
been we, we've been blessed with
Metallica.

1102
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,880
Mick Hughes was there forever
and a tremendous sound engineer.

1103
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,960
He retired and and Greg is is
there and and he's a great

1104
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,360
partner to work with and we kind
of took this thing on and

1105
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,760
created this stereo image around
the around the football.

1106
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,040
Stadium, yeah.
So when you, when you have, you

1107
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,920
know, new album, I'm guessing
you know, you sit down with the

1108
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,920
band, they tell you what the
album's all about and what vibe

1109
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:55,440
it is or theme or whatever.
How does your whole design

1110
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,520
process work?
Like, how far in advance of the

1111
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,400
tour actually going out?
How much is the band involved?

1112
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,400
When do you get the rest of the
team involved?

1113
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:11,080
Like what's that look like?
That's a tough question.

1114
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,360
I'm always thinking about what's
next.

1115
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,760
Yeah.
You know, I'm always thinking

1116
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,960
about what's next.
I've got a project that may or

1117
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,560
may not happen with another
band, and I've got all sorts of

1118
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,840
kind of ideas floating around
with that and what it might be.

1119
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:31,640
And and with these guys, I kind
of know give or take some number

1120
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,680
of months what the, what the
cycle of where we're going to

1121
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,920
be, what we're doing, what's
when's the next recording cycle

1122
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,080
this and that.
So when when you know when they

1123
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,760
started M 72 recording you're
you know, I know where that

1124
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,480
coming out of that is going to
be a tour.

1125
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,160
So the process really starts
then it's coming up with a lot

1126
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:56,920
of iterations, talking about
stuff, eventually getting some

1127
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,960
tracks to listen to and see, you
know, what are we doing and

1128
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,480
trying to think about what we've
done in the past and where we're

1129
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:04,840
going.
This one was a pretty big

1130
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,400
curveball because it came up
where we're going to go play

1131
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,240
stadiums in the round.
It's like, OK, well, everybody

1132
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,080
understands what the scale of
that is, right?

1133
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,440
Let's not have anybody get
surprised halfway in because

1134
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,640
this is going to be huge.
And and the sound thing is

1135
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,360
something, you know, the stereo
sound thing is something we've

1136
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,040
wanted to get to for a long
time.

1137
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,280
And I think we will be, if we go
back indoors, we have a

1138
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,000
masterful plan for how that's
going to be the folks at Meyer

1139
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,760
Sound, starting with Helen and
John and Josh Freeman and Bob

1140
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,880
McCarthy and Michael Maxim.
And I mean, you want to talk

1141
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:37,640
about having family to work
with.

1142
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,320
It's unbelievable to have people
like that to work with.

1143
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,480
And so we have a plan for that.
But one of the big things on

1144
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,280
this was trying to make the
audio special, you know, You

1145
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,120
know, we always have bad Mick
Hughes suffered in this thing

1146
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,880
where we had unbelievable
sounding shows and people would

1147
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,520
say, well, they sound really
good for Metallica.

1148
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,600
And.
John Broderick suffered for

1149
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,960
years with this.
It's a really good show for

1150
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:01,120
Metallica.
Yeah.

1151
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:06,280
And and so one of my goals has
been to break that mold because

1152
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,600
because the band is a great band
and I just want it to be a great

1153
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,680
show.
I don't want you to say it's the

1154
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,200
best Metallica show you ever
saw.

1155
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,080
I want you to say it's the best
show you ever saw.

1156
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,760
Yeah.
And so messing with the audio,

1157
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,480
getting the lights in the right
place on this thing, getting all

1158
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,240
that stuff proportionally
correct, getting the screens

1159
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,400
correct and having something
that we think is special, that,

1160
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,760
you know, we don't want to be
anybody else's show.

1161
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,720
Yeah.
Then I take some of those ideas

1162
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:34,400
and talk to the band a little
bit.

1163
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,120
On this particular one, I got a
pretty big curveball because

1164
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:41,840
something I'd wanted to do
forever.

1165
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:46,160
One of the guys in the band was
willing to do and I was really

1166
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,720
taken aback by I said well, if
you're willing to go for it, I

1167
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,560
this is what I'd really like to
do.

1168
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,320
Yeah.
And I've never pitched it to you

1169
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,080
because I didn't think you would
do it.

1170
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,160
Because why?
Well, it's it's working really

1171
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,200
well so far.
So let's go there.

1172
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,400
And I said, OK, well, rehearsals
were interesting because.

1173
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,000
Because all of a sudden he'd
realized what he'd committed to

1174
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,760
and realized, well, this is
going to be hard.

1175
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,880
Was that because of the scale of
it or real hard?

1176
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:16,800
What?
What?

1177
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:20,560
What was the what was the
concern, the scale, the cost,

1178
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,000
The world?
Wired to For the first time ever

1179
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:29,280
I moved Lars and we put him at
the end of the snake pit and at

1180
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,080
the end of the show we had Lars
come up and play at the end of

1181
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:34,440
the snake bit.
We'd never moved.

1182
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,840
Lars had moved a little bit of
moving drum kit back in 90 on

1183
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,240
the Black Album tour, which he
really to this day we'll talk

1184
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,680
about how much he hated it and
after that experience he never

1185
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,680
moved.
I started with him in 94 so we'd

1186
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,920
never been able to move move
liars.

1187
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,760
So I moved him to the end and we
had a drum kit come up and he

1188
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,320
played right next to the people
and rehearsals were very

1189
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:03,440
difficult with it.
And Peter Mensch, my dear friend

1190
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,200
from the management company who
we have a, we have a rather

1191
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,240
animated relationship.
He's a great he's, he's had some

1192
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:11,760
great design ideas himself.
Peter Mensch came up with the

1193
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,360
snake pit, which I believe is
the biggest change in the stage

1194
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,480
since the Romans raised the
Greek stage off the floor to put

1195
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:22,040
it on a platform and people were
never in the stage before.

1196
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:26,000
So the yeah, the Snake pit was
the snake pit was actually a

1197
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,760
late, like a little VIP pit in
the center of the stage, right?

1198
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,360
And that became, if you look at
any TV show now or anywhere

1199
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,600
else, they're all full of having
people in the stage.

1200
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:37,600
And that was Peter.
That's true.

1201
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,080
And so Peter thought it was
crazy to move Lars and put him

1202
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,480
down there and all this nonsense
and blah, blah, blah, blah,

1203
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,240
blah.
I said just watch.

1204
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,640
And Lars went down there the
first night and played, and he

1205
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:50,760
had an experience he'd never had
before.

1206
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,240
I mean, he's he's literally a
couple of feet from 80,000

1207
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,640
people at Forest Soul in Mexico
City.

1208
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,960
That's wild.
So that developed and then as we

1209
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,560
moved into the festivals from
that cycle, he started opening

1210
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,560
the showdown there.
That's how much he enjoyed it.

1211
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,200
Really.
And then he kind of felt like,

1212
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,960
well, after we moved, after I
moved back to the stage, the

1213
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,480
energy doesn't seem the same.
I said, well, let's do this.

1214
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,080
And so that came.
That's where the circle with the

1215
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,040
four drum kits came up.
Is is the big challenge there

1216
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:27,000
security or like?
I think we, you know one of the

1217
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,640
other things, we're fortunate
we're very we're capable of

1218
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:31,640
designing the show.
We keep the crowd in mind.

1219
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,400
We have very, very few problems
with crowd and stuff, another

1220
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,200
great part of our team.
But also the design is meant

1221
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:44,360
when you take a stage and make
it 400 feet around, you have a

1222
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,280
1200 foot diameter.
So you're able to create a lot

1223
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,040
more front row seats than you
can.

1224
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,800
When you take a snake bit and
stick it out into the audience

1225
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,920
and you add 160 feet of front
row seats, it eliminates a lot

1226
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,880
of pressure on the barricade and
those kind of problems.

1227
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,560
And so some of this stuff is
practical.

1228
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,720
We don't talk about this a lot,
but some of this stuff is

1229
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:07,720
practical as well as as
theatrical staging things.

1230
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,560
The reason when we do the
festivals that we go so wide and

1231
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,520
create that is to make all these
front row seats and stop people

1232
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:19,000
from pushing this incredible
pressure into the front center

1233
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,800
of the stage.
And and as you are painfully

1234
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,279
aware as I am, there's been
tragedies in our industry

1235
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,760
because people haven't been able
to eliminate that pressure.

1236
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,680
Yeah.
And so it's something always,

1237
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,560
first and foremost in everything
we do.

1238
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,680
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
So you know, again back to this

1239
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:41,840
this process, because I'm just
curious, you know, show the size

1240
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:46,399
of MMM 72, how far in advance,
how far back?

1241
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,200
We took.
It like you're touring.

1242
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:52,399
Let's say tour starts March 15th
of 2023.

1243
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,760
When do you start?
You know or. 72 started in

1244
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,680
earnest OK, forget about my
musings about this or that.

1245
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,920
I was actually working on an
indoor show because I thought we

1246
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,319
were going to go indoors and I
was playing with the cylinders

1247
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:08,840
for an indoor show, trying to
figure out how to do something.

1248
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:10,960
I was really going down these
rabbit hills and trying to

1249
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,120
figure how am I going to make
this work.

1250
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,520
Let me see, I I like shapes and
I had these cylinder things and

1251
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,960
I said they were going to go in
the round and then it was like,

1252
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,479
OK, well how do I take these
cylinders and make them work in

1253
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,200
a stadium?
It it in earnest.

1254
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,920
It took about a year and then
there was a pretty big shift in

1255
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,080
the stage element.
And then, you know, we got into

1256
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:36,000
this thing when we played the
night before the Super Bowl back

1257
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,680
in San Francisco of playing
without a roof.

1258
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,160
You know, I I like work with the
with this band that says, well,

1259
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,760
if it's raining, the crowd gets
wet, so we'll get wet.

1260
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:48,319
Wow.
We don't.

1261
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:50,200
We don't need to be protected.
That's.

1262
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:51,760
Cool.
We won with our fans, huh?

1263
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,080
And so we got into this thing
and not using a roof well.

1264
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:56,880
How do you play in a stadium
without a roof?

1265
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:58,760
And and there's a lot of
engineering.

1266
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,760
That's challenging, Yeah.
In the round, in a stadium, no

1267
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:03,800
roof.
Yeah.

1268
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,520
Where do you hang?
Lights brilliant people at

1269
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:08,280
Stageco.
Yeah.

1270
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:10,840
Again, I can't say enough about
the team.

1271
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,840
Chad Kaler, our rigger.
Unbelievable.

1272
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,360
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.

1273
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,280
So well.
What does a rigger do when it's

1274
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:22,400
in the round in a stadium with
no lights hanging above the

1275
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,920
stage?
Well, there's little towers that

1276
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,440
are holding up all that light,
which kind of work with the crib

1277
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:30,440
towers.
If you look at the album artwork

1278
01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:33,560
and stuff and you'll see that
the towers kind of work in that

1279
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,240
whole thing.
And yeah, and the the circle

1280
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,240
theme carries through the whole
thing.

1281
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,080
But those lights and the sound
and all that stuff is rigged on

1282
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,640
those towers, Yeah, of course.
And then there's a Canton Mary

1283
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,000
system of cables that hangs the
speakers that cover the field.

1284
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:49,920
Yeah.
There's a There's a whole bunch

1285
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,440
for Chad and his.
Team to do Yeah, yeah.

1286
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:56,120
It's just different, you know.
It's not like, you know, rigging

1287
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:57,960
points in the ceiling.
It's, it's.

1288
01:10:58,240 --> 01:10:59,920
No, we're hanging stuff where
there's no.

1289
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:02,040
Hanging.
So those those towers were quite

1290
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,600
a quite a creation then, right?
Like that was quite an

1291
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,040
engineering feat, I'm guessing.
The the engineering was, you

1292
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,600
know, we went to Stageco and
they're like, you're crazy.

1293
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:12,800
But they told me I was crazy
when I wanted to paint all the

1294
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:14,920
towers white for the World Wired
Tour too.

1295
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,600
Yeah, yeah.
And then then they sent me a

1296
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,280
picture of Chanel doing the same
thing, 'cause they saw our show

1297
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:24,040
and they thought it looked good.
I thought that was that was a

1298
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:27,680
nice compliment.
But you know, the folks at

1299
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:32,160
Stageco, just, just they're at
this level.

1300
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,440
We're able to work with really,
really talented people, yeah.

1301
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,840
Who?
Have worked with this enough to

1302
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:40,280
go.
That guy's crazy.

1303
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:42,280
Let's figure out how we're going
to do this.

1304
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,400
You know, that's got to be a
really.

1305
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,240
Cool thing and Adam Davis.
Yeah, of course.

1306
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:48,840
Yeah, you.
Know.

1307
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,000
I don't know.
It just it.

1308
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,080
We're really fortunate.
We have a great, great team.

1309
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,760
As I said, none of this happens
from any guy doing something.

1310
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,880
Yeah, right.
But if I set all humility aside,

1311
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,280
I can say it was a clever idea
or something like yeah, but to

1312
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:11,240
make the clever idea sit in
Amsterdam that first night in in

1313
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,560
in the stadium in Amsterdam, it
takes an enormous number of

1314
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,720
people firing on all cylinders
at a really, really high level.

1315
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:22,480
But it's still.
It's got to be really cool to be

1316
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,960
Metallica, because you could go
to Intel and say, hey, we need

1317
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,440
this cool technology for our
tour this year.

1318
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:30,800
Or you could go to Apple
computers.

1319
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,360
Or you could go to like whoever
you want.

1320
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,600
And you're going to be able to
get a meeting at a pretty high

1321
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:40,240
level to create something unique
for you to use on your.

1322
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:42,600
Tour this year that we have is
that we only want one.

1323
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:45,680
Yeah, it ain't going to be
profitable people.

1324
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:47,600
Are in telling those people
they're like, well.

1325
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,080
How many of these are we going
to sell?

1326
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:51,360
One.
Yeah, but it goes to their

1327
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,560
marketing budget.
It goes to their marketing

1328
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,080
budget 'cause they'll do 1000
commercials that show.

1329
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,320
Look, this is the thing on
Metallica.

1330
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,120
Metallica.
Is not big with sponsorship and

1331
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,000
things like that.
So we run into some some things

1332
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,440
there.
But yeah, we we're it's it's a

1333
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:09,720
great bunch.
It's a great band to be able to

1334
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,080
work with and there's great
resources available and we have

1335
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,400
a great management structure.
You know, people like Tony Di

1336
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:19,400
Chacho figuring out are you out
of your mind, You understand

1337
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,600
what this is going to cost.
I told you it's going to be big.

1338
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,880
It's going to be expensive.
And he's got to figure out how

1339
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:27,760
we're going to make this thing
actually, you know, how to take

1340
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:32,000
this, this kind of crazy idea
and and hopefully make it make

1341
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,000
sense or better yet, make
dollars.

1342
01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:38,320
You know, I mean, you know,
even, you know, just getting the

1343
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:42,280
machine to be running correctly
is very challenging at the level

1344
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,200
that this thing plays at.
And it takes everybody, It takes

1345
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,120
the folks at Q Prime, it takes
tone, it takes Mark, it takes

1346
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,040
all the people at HQ and
Metallica.

1347
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,960
But you know, there's people
that never experience the joy of

1348
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,160
the house lights turning off and
the roar of the crowd who are

1349
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,400
such big contributors to this
thing.

1350
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,920
I have to thank them because
they all make this possible.

1351
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,400
Of course, yeah.
Well, and then you know as well

1352
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,160
as anybody, because you've been
a production manager for a long

1353
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,120
time as well, it needs to come
down and it needs to go back up

1354
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,360
again tomorrow, you know.
So like you can design whatever

1355
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,080
you want, but if you don't have
the budget to build it, or if

1356
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:21,720
you don't have the ability to
get it in and out of a building,

1357
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,680
you know and then you got to
start while you guys probably

1358
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,000
leapfrog, steal or something,
I'm guessing right?

1359
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:31,000
We we've actually got it.
They're not playing that much.

1360
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,440
You're playing, you know,
they're doing 2 shows in a city

1361
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,040
with a different set list every
night.

1362
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,680
So there's no repeat songs,
there's no repeat lighting cues

1363
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:40,840
or video cues.
It's.

1364
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:42,920
Just it's two totally different
sets.

1365
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,480
That's wild.
That's a big challenge right

1366
01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:47,200
there.
Yeah, no kidding.

1367
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:49,400
Not just for the crew, but for
the band.

1368
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:56,480
And so the schedule works out OK
with with we're not doubling

1369
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:00,440
that much gear, we're able to
move the production and not

1370
01:15:00,440 --> 01:15:03,640
double that.
And you know, tower bases are

1371
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,000
doubled or tripled sometimes and
the towers we've got, there's so

1372
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,720
much of The thing is bespoke.
I I'd be really honest, we can't

1373
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,280
afford to build two of them or
three of them.

1374
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, that stuff's all

1375
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:19,000
expensive.
And that's where you know, the

1376
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,880
team that puts the whole thing
together, even figuring it out.

1377
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,200
The routing is a huge part of
making it possible.

1378
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,040
Yeah, yeah.
How soon were you guys out after

1379
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:32,360
COVID?
We did a movie theater thing

1380
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:34,360
during COVID.
We did a there was somebody who

1381
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,040
had this idea to do drive in
theaters, and we filmed the show

1382
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:39,720
at.
They wanted us to use one of

1383
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,640
these XR stages, and we looked
at some of that stuff and went

1384
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:45,960
there that we're not.
That's not Metallica.

1385
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:52,240
So we went up to a winery in in
Napa, in the middle of COVID and

1386
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:56,440
at full lockdown we bought out a
wing of a hotel, a motel, and

1387
01:15:56,440 --> 01:15:58,960
you know, did the whole thing,
testing every day back when the

1388
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,400
swabs went all the way to back
of your head and felt like

1389
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,560
somebody was killing you.
And we tested every day, went

1390
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,520
through that whole protocol.
We did that.

1391
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:10,280
That played in drive ins.
Then the next we had done S and

1392
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,560
M2 was the last time they played
live.

1393
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,920
We played that show at the
winery with no people.

1394
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,680
We just filmed it and I was
stunned at how the band

1395
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:21,320
performed really.
And we talked a lot about

1396
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:25,000
visualizing their fan base and
they were they pulled it off and

1397
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,600
then we did the the show you
reference for the for the

1398
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,960
fundraiser, for the Bennett, for
their foundation And that's when

1399
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,200
I knew we had to have people on
screens.

1400
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:36,280
We had to have that or they
weren't going to be able to do

1401
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:39,320
what they did at the theater.
And then we went out I think the

1402
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:41,040
next spring.
I don't remember the exact

1403
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,600
dates, but I think the next
spring when we do live shows, so

1404
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:49,080
probably 2021 and and very
careful and and.

1405
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:52,720
And then it just.
Went.

1406
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,560
Batshit crazy after that, you
know?

1407
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,280
It's just been kind of nuts ever
since.

1408
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:00,040
But you know at the end of the
day, it's been non-stop since I

1409
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,520
got here in 94 and about two
weeks into that tour when we

1410
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,360
were doing it, I looked at him.
I said, you guys, this isn't a

1411
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:07,200
new tour.
You just took a longer break

1412
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:10,560
since the last one.
Because that's just it's it's

1413
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:11,840
they.
Just all blend together.

1414
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:14,360
Ocean, you know, ours is a lot
of mind.

1415
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:17,560
That's just it's always going
you know next year and the year

1416
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:23,880
after that and he's thinking out
he's he's really creative and

1417
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:29,400
has an incredibly, he's smart as
hell and he's really creative

1418
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:34,800
and the combination is is really
dangerous because he knows where

1419
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,120
he's going creatively and he can
project that out into what the

1420
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:41,400
practicality of delivering it to
to in the future.

1421
01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:43,160
Is well, and what does that
look?

1422
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:46,520
What does that look like?
As far as like, does the band

1423
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,200
just agree whenever Lars comes
up with a wild idea?

1424
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,800
You know what?
That That's their, that's their

1425
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,560
world.
The four of them are very much

1426
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:57,120
like a family, you know, I mean,
you think about it.

1427
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:01,320
You know, Lars, James and Kirk
have been together forever.

1428
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:03,920
And really, Rob's been there now
so long that he's been there

1429
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:05,160
forever.
Yeah.

1430
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,000
And most marriages don't last as
long as those guys have been

1431
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,520
together.
So they have their process and

1432
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,920
and you know it's not that Lars
dictates what's going on.

1433
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,920
It's just he's got a vision hey
we can do this and we I don't

1434
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:22,760
think that we ever really hit
the marks It's not like a it's

1435
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:26,440
not like a a prescription of
next month this next month this

1436
01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:28,680
next month this.
He's just thinking ahead.

1437
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,800
If you if you listen to an
interview with Lars and ask him

1438
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,880
what his favorite album is, and
James as well, they'll always

1439
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,960
tell you the next one.
They don't know what the next

1440
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,000
one's going to be, but they know
there's going to be a next one.

1441
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:43,480
And they don't know exactly when
it's going to happen.

1442
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,360
But they have a kind of a thing
like, well, we're going to do

1443
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:48,560
this.
Then we want to go play here and

1444
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:50,960
we want to go to these places
and we want to take the show

1445
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:53,280
here and when we get all that
done.

1446
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,440
And of course, none of that ever
works on schedule because

1447
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:57,680
availabilities and routing and
shipping, blah, blah, blah,

1448
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:00,200
blah, blah, blah.
And then when we get through all

1449
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:04,120
this stuff, maybe we'll we'll,
you know we'll start kind of

1450
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:06,200
thinking about another album
cycle.

1451
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:10,560
And it's a it's yeah, it's been
remarkable to be a part of

1452
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,880
that's.
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it.

1453
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:17,640
Are you ever surprised by their
longevity?

1454
01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:21,960
You know, like, I guess the
problem working so long for a

1455
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:27,160
band like Metallica is you have
to stay as fit as them.

1456
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,640
Like you have to.
You have to be right there

1457
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,280
alongside them, right?
Regardless of whatever your age

1458
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,520
is versus their age or whatever,
like.

1459
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,320
Surprised.
No, I think I'm more impressed

1460
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,120
with it.
I look at the way they took care

1461
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,640
of themselves.
Maybe better now than they did

1462
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:43,880
when they were younger, out of
necessity.

1463
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,640
Yeah, I think all of us.
I look at the commitment they

1464
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:48,880
have to playing and delivering a
show.

1465
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:57,200
And the one of the things that
is always humbled me with them

1466
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,960
is it is their relationship with
the audience and the the

1467
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:03,320
precious level they hold that
at.

1468
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,960
And the fact that we don't have
AB Show to take to Bismarck.

1469
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,560
I'm not picking on Bismarck.
And I noticed, I didn't say

1470
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,280
which state.
There's a lot of Bismarck, Oh.

1471
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:12,280
Are they?
We don't.

1472
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,720
I only know what we don't.
Have AB show to take to

1473
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,040
Bismarck.
The Bismarck show is the same

1474
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:21,120
show that plays New York or
Chicago or wherever.

1475
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,280
Now there's some logistical
things that become impractical

1476
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:27,840
to try to You know, you can't
take that stadium show and put

1477
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,440
it into a place that doesn't
have the the infrastructure to

1478
01:20:30,440 --> 01:20:32,960
deal with.
But there isn't AB show.

1479
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:34,720
They'll put out the same energy,
though.

1480
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,000
The other thing that is it's a,
it's a show.

1481
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,520
It is a dramatic big Metallica
show.

1482
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,960
And you know, many times ours is
like make sure it's Metallica.

1483
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,560
There isn't AB show.
And the other thing is I've seen

1484
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:53,040
them sick, I've seen them going
through personal crisis in life.

1485
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,680
I've seen them with kids being
born.

1486
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:00,920
All of the things that in 30 or
40 years you go through, I've

1487
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,440
never seen them phone it in when
they get to the top step of the

1488
01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:03,720
state.
Oh.

1489
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:05,080
Really.
That's cool.

1490
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:08,040
I've seen them.
I've had a difficult time

1491
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:12,120
getting them up those stairs
sometimes, but when they hit the

1492
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:16,680
top step, it's on.
And that to me is, is.

1493
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:19,000
That's the money.
That's the magic.

1494
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,240
There's no like.
There's no end like.

1495
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:25,600
There's no like, OK, we're going
to do this until here I.

1496
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:28,520
Don't know how much I have.
You know I'm an old man.

1497
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:29,200
I don't.
I don't.

1498
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:30,800
Know I was going to ask you
that.

1499
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,880
Like, do you plan a life after
Metallica or or is it?

1500
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:37,880
Is it when Metallica stops, I
stop?

1501
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:39,840
That's my plan, you know?
And I know.

1502
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,400
That's a personal question.
I would hope, you know, I hope I

1503
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:44,760
have the opportunity to that
they would keep me around that

1504
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:46,200
long.
I don't take any of it for

1505
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:47,840
granted.
I'd be very fortunate in this

1506
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:53,800
whole thing, but I think I think
that as long as I'm enjoying

1507
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:57,400
what I'm doing, the team we have
right now, the creative energy

1508
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:00,520
when we're on, that's like
that's what I love.

1509
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,880
Like at this point.
It's it's not that it's not

1510
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:04,960
interesting now because we're
going to go back and redo a

1511
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,080
bunch of things.
There'll be a bunch of, I'm, I'm

1512
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:09,880
guessing Lars is going to insert
a bunch of new songs for this

1513
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,760
year and then so that will start
the creative process.

1514
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:17,320
But when we're In Sync as a
team, working together on trying

1515
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:21,200
to create a show, that's that's
that kid who was sitting and

1516
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,680
watching Pink Floyd.
When I wonder how we do this,

1517
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:25,880
that's the.
That's.

1518
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:28,880
Really cool.
Oh, this is how we do this.

1519
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:32,400
Watch this.
I love when I have a design

1520
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:34,760
together that's kind of, it's
sort of.

1521
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:37,640
It's no longer a nebulous gas
cloud, if you will.

1522
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:39,920
It's no longer scribbling.
It's like it is.

1523
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:43,280
We're going to send it to Rob
and I'll send it to Gene and I

1524
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,760
love that first Test text back.
You know, WTF?

1525
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:50,000
Explanation, point explanation.
What is wrong with you?

1526
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,880
What are you thinking?
Yeah, well, I think you have to

1527
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,320
think big.
Oh, is that bad thinking?

1528
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:59,560
You know those moments, that's
that's that's magic.

1529
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,120
When Rob comes back to me and
goes, I want to use this slide

1530
01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:03,600
and here's why this is going to
do this.

1531
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:05,840
And I'm like, well, I like that,
but what if we did this?

1532
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:07,680
Oh no, we're not going to do
that.

1533
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:12,280
We'll do this and it it.
It's that same process I talked

1534
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,320
about in the Metallica show of
taking the energy, taking the

1535
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:18,400
communication and building in a
positive way.

1536
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,200
And you know, we're lucky we
have a team, and I've been on

1537
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:24,320
teams where it's not this way,
where everybody is pushing

1538
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:26,560
towards the good of everybody
else and for the good of the

1539
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:30,560
show, nobody's selling.
No one's selling anyone out to

1540
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,440
kind of elevate their position
at someone else's expense.

1541
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,040
It's pretty special.
So we try to keep that going for

1542
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,440
as long as we can.
I have a super important

1543
01:23:40,440 --> 01:23:44,000
question for you.
Did the Did the Metallica Lego

1544
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,240
set ever get approved?
I don't know if it made it or

1545
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:48,880
not.
You know, I think Gene found

1546
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:52,000
that thing and he started
populating it and I was blown

1547
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:53,880
away.
That guy has what we call the

1548
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:56,800
cube show, which was the World
Wired indoor show.

1549
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:58,640
OK.
He has the, what we call the

1550
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,040
five screen show, which was the
world Wired outdoor show.

1551
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:04,920
Yeah.
And the tower, the the M 72

1552
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:08,680
Tour, he's got the whole thing.
He's got Mick in Legos like it's

1553
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:10,440
unbelievable.
That's wild.

1554
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:13,960
That's too much time in the
basement with flamin Hot Cheetos

1555
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:15,800
in red Mountain Dew.
No kidding.

1556
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,120
No kidding.
But somebody was telling me that

1557
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:22,320
there's over 10,000 ideas that
were submitted or something.

1558
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:26,520
Well, you have to get 10,000
likes for Lego to consider it, I

1559
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:27,680
think.
Oh, I see.

1560
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,360
And so, so Gene took this thing.
We all started reposting it

1561
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:33,160
because we all cracked up when
we found it.

1562
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:35,080
No kidding.
At first we're laughing about

1563
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:36,560
it.
Then I started drilling down on

1564
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,440
how much of this stuff the guy
had and I was like, this is

1565
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:42,120
unbelievable.
So we we tried to push him over

1566
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:44,440
the 10,000 number to get Lego to
consider it.

1567
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,520
I have not heard whether we got
that'd.

1568
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:47,880
Be really cool.
We were close.

1569
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:49,520
We were really, really close
that.

1570
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:53,120
'D be cool, I think.
Last I heard, we were at 9500

1571
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,320
and sure, then there'd be some
logistics involved in that.

1572
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:00,000
Yeah, there'd be some lawyers
involved in making that deal.

1573
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,720
The funny thing about Metallica
is like, as popular as they've

1574
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:07,920
gotten and the longevity and the
multiple generations and how big

1575
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:10,960
they are, they've never really
jumped the shark.

1576
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:14,880
You know, like they've never.
I've never seen them anyways.

1577
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,160
Maybe they did, but I've never
seen them.

1578
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:21,080
You know, go on America's Got
Talent Oregon or, you know, some

1579
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:24,600
of the things that some bands
have done where I call it

1580
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:26,600
jumping the shark.
So did the fawns.

1581
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:34,040
Yeah, I think.
I think they are underrated in a

1582
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:36,320
lot of ways.
And I'm not talking about as

1583
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:39,200
virtuoso players.
I'm talking about as a band, as

1584
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:43,160
a creative group of four guys.
They have taken incredible

1585
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:47,000
risks.
They have shown their truth to

1586
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:51,920
the world in in video
documentary form, in a place

1587
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:55,000
that very few people would go.
They have shown their truth.

1588
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,640
I don't call it vulnerability.
They have shown their truth to

1589
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:04,520
their to the world unabashed.
They have taken on musical

1590
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:09,160
projects like S&M and then
coming back and doing S and M2.

1591
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:14,960
They have collaborated with Lou
Reed and done some things.

1592
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,560
They took a hard turn to do
Saint Anger in the middle of

1593
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:22,760
great turmoil and I think
eventually Saint Anger will be

1594
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:30,200
recognized for for what?
For the passion that is insane

1595
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:32,200
anger.
Maybe the audio quality is a

1596
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:35,080
little rough sometimes, but I
think it will.

1597
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:37,560
Will will stand the test of time
over that.

1598
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,360
Over over time, yeah.
And they've taken incredible

1599
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:45,080
risks to turn things.
But what they haven't done, what

1600
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:48,880
I have never seen them do, is be
untrue to themselves.

1601
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:53,080
And that's that thing about
never phoning it in when they're

1602
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:55,960
on stage.
Yeah, When you're talking to a

1603
01:26:55,960 --> 01:27:00,360
band member and you know they're
sick and that they go out and

1604
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,600
they do an incredible job and
you're talking to them after

1605
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,600
showing you like Matt, how did
you do that?

1606
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,600
And they look you straight in
the eye, and from their heart

1607
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,200
they tell you I was really dying
up there.

1608
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,200
And I looked down in the front
row and I saw this young kid

1609
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:14,720
there.
He was there with his dad,

1610
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:16,920
obviously, because he was too
young to be there alone.

1611
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:19,280
And he was just rocking his ass
off.

1612
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:22,320
And I figured, if that kid can
rock, I can rock.

1613
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:25,360
That is awesome.
OK, when you hear that, it's

1614
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,400
pretty easy to go run through a
wall for him.

1615
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,560
Yeah, you know, it's funny
because I I'm probably the

1616
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:34,680
person who original Metallica
fans hate because I jumped on

1617
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:39,000
the bandwagon on Black Album.
I wasn't a fan before that.

1618
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:43,440
They were, yeah, they they were
a little too heavy.

1619
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:45,960
Like, I loved, I loved Judas
Priest.

1620
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:48,960
I loved a lot of the heavy
bands, but Metallica was just a

1621
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,400
little too garagi for me before
that, right?

1622
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,720
And it just wasn't the genre
that I was into.

1623
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:58,400
But Black Album, I just went,
wow, this is good.

1624
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,800
Like because of the production
quality on it and not because it

1625
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:03,520
was his probably.
I hit it well.

1626
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:05,400
And I'm Canadian.
I'm Canadian, he hit.

1627
01:28:05,480 --> 01:28:07,400
It out of the.
Park so.

1628
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:10,120
And the guys hit it out of the
park with some songwriting that.

1629
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:12,840
Yeah, Dan.
Again, I think we'll we stand

1630
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:15,960
the test in.
Time my cousin was Bruce

1631
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,360
Fairburn and so my name is
Marcel Fairbairn.

1632
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,400
My cousin is Bruce Fairbairn was
he's he's passed away.

1633
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:27,720
But so you know Bruce Fairbairn,
Bob Rock had a very good thing

1634
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:34,000
going on there in in Vancouver
and and so yeah, I mean I just

1635
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:38,200
thought that album had the sound
it it had it you know and and

1636
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:42,480
plus a ballad, you know like
wow, a Metallica ballad that

1637
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:45,000
became like a huge hit and stuff
too.

1638
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:49,960
So so yeah, I mean but I I love
that they've reinvented

1639
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:52,480
themselves like that.
Like they went from being like

1640
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:56,360
this sort of garage metal band
to being top of the charts.

1641
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:59,800
You know the most successful
rock band, one of the most.

1642
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:04,560
Well now the most ever probably.
But you know just incredible and

1643
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,560
and to have the career that
they've had, it's it's

1644
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:08,400
incredible.
It's just mind blowing.

1645
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:10,720
So it's.
Been a great journey, you know,

1646
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:14,560
I think, I think that they were
always more musical than some of

1647
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:21,200
the folks that they that they're
they're you know associated

1648
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:21,880
with.
Yeah.

1649
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:23,960
I take, I have so many people
come to the show.

1650
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:27,560
You know I'm 66, right?
So And this, my friends are like

1651
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:31,200
Metallica.
You come see the show, I'll give

1652
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:32,840
you some earplugs.
Just watch your show.

1653
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:36,000
And almost to a person they come
to me after the show, they're

1654
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:41,280
like, I had no idea.
Yeah, they're unbelievable.

1655
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:44,840
Yeah, they were probably tired
and worn out by the end of the

1656
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:47,280
show, right?
It's like a it's like a workout.

1657
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:50,000
What just?
Happened this on the road with

1658
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,480
them.
Not for luxury for.

1659
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,840
Necessity.
No, I meant your friends.

1660
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:55,800
I meant the fans that were there
watching.

1661
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:57,680
My friends.
They were probably worn out at

1662
01:29:57,680 --> 01:29:58,920
the.
End they're just, they're like,

1663
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:02,120
I had no idea that it would,
that it's this good that there's

1664
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:04,080
this level of passion.
Yeah.

1665
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,040
You know they're like, man, I
the only thing I can compare

1666
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,640
that to is Springsteen.
And I'm like, yeah, because it's

1667
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,000
from the heart.
Yeah.

1668
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:15,480
Do you still tour?
I go out to a lot of shows.

1669
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:19,600
If I have work to do with the
shows, if I if there's something

1670
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:22,640
for me to do, yeah, I'm there.
I'm we're in.

1671
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:27,120
We're at the point now in the in
the cycle where if there's

1672
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:28,680
nothing for me to do, to be
there.

1673
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:31,680
You don't know.
I don't.

1674
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,360
I don't need to be there and
take up space and be another

1675
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:36,480
person to move around and hotel
and all.

1676
01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:38,600
That.
Stuff and I got stuff I'm

1677
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:43,240
working on for you know, we're
going to be with the foundation

1678
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:46,880
will be doing another benefit
coming up and you know the the

1679
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:49,600
machine doesn't stop working.
The stuff on my plate doesn't

1680
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:51,800
stop.
So that's that's a great

1681
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,240
blessing.
Yeah, that's very cool.

1682
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:58,160
I, I appreciate you taking so
much time today out of your your

1683
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,080
schedule.
I know you got a lot going on.

1684
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:04,400
You're going back to Europe soon
and it's been very interesting

1685
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:06,800
for sure.
Like, I I love it.

1686
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:09,960
I love, you know, everybody I
meet from your camp are just

1687
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:15,960
amazing people and and such a
successful machine, you know,

1688
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:19,040
it's great.
It's it's been a great journey.

1689
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:20,560
I'm very fortunate to be part of
it.

1690
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:23,680
I've enjoyed the time with you.
I'm glad we got to know you got

1691
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:25,080
me an e-mail and the other
stuff.

1692
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:27,320
I will, yeah.
I'll e-mail you as soon as we're

1693
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:32,360
done here and and if I can help
you with that, great, and maybe

1694
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:35,920
I'll catch you somewhere with.
Us on the road absolutely show,

1695
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,440
but if you want to do this again
sometime and get into specifics,

1696
01:31:38,440 --> 01:31:41,120
we can talk about.
Absolutely would.

1697
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:43,800
Love to and and stuff like that
and would love to.

1698
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,400
You know, no thanks for your
interest in our show.

1699
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:48,080
Thanks for your interest in what
I do.

1700
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:51,040
Yeah, I'm very interested and
I'd love to do it again.

1701
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:54,080
I'd like to get into some of the
the specifics on the gear that

1702
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:56,520
we were even talking about
before we started recording.

1703
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:58,880
So yeah, that would be fun too.
Cool.

1704
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:01,280
Well, thank you so much, Dan.
I appreciate you.

1705
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:07,360
And you know, again, if I can
ever do anything for you or you

1706
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:09,480
know, whatever, just reach out
to me.

1707
01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:11,720
You've, you've got my.
Info Now I've enjoyed the time

1708
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,360
and it's nice getting perfect
for you a little bit and let's

1709
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:15,440
keep going.
Thanks.