#233 - Josh Allen / 3LR Design

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Hello and thank you for joining
me today live for the intro and

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promos for Geezers of Gear
Episode #233.

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Hello and welcome back, episode
#233.

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And so it's been a morning, and
I will tell you I've been

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determined and praying that I
wouldn't screw up one of these

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live intros.
And I just did with Roe, of

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course, our newest sponsor.
So I apologize that I had a

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little brain freeze there, but
yeah, rower amazing.

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We're super happy to have him on
board.

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Obviously you know, leading the
LED screen, LED panel charge for

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years now.
And Frank Montero who runs the

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US side of that business is a
great friend of mine for a long,

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long time.
We appreciate them very much.

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We appreciate obviously them
sponsoring the podcast, but we

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appreciate the brand as well.
They're just a great product,

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great line and so we're happy to
have them on board.

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Speaking of sponsors, I also
want to mention our new newest

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sponsor who just got signed up.
I believe they'll be sponsoring

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an episode in the next week or
so and that is RZARRZI Lighting

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from New Orleans.
Not only great sponsor, but

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great company, Ray's Ray's
company, Ray Ziegler's company,

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RZI is the premier lighting and
staging and rigging company in

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New Orleans.
Trusted local source for 25

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years and raised a guy I've also
known for a lot of years.

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Done a lot of business with.
We spent a lot of time together

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on zoom calls and stuff during
COVID and honestly, sadly, like

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most people we haven't since.
So it's going to be fun to catch

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up with Ray.
Hopefully we'll get him on the

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podcast soon and just talk about
his business, how it's changed

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and evolved and you know, like
usual talk about how he got into

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the business and stuff.
So today's guest Josh Allen has

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been actively contributing to
the lighting industry for more

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than 30 years.
He held the position of

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Principal Consultant with
Theatre Consultants

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Collaborative, where for over a
decade, as member of the

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American Society of Theatre
Consultants, he consulted on the

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design of hundreds of performing
arts venues throughout the

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United States, Canada and
beyond.

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In 2016, Josh Co founded 3 LR
Design, Inc, a firm specializing

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in cohesive design, rigging,
rigging, design and control

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systems, entertainment for
entertainment, themed

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environments, cruise ships,
architectural, immersive and

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architectainment lighting.
That's a lot.

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His projects ranged from ship
wide lighting and control system

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designed for Carnival Cruise
Lines and Viking River cruises

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and multitudes of professional
and educational facilities,

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performing arts and sporting
venues, houses of worship,

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television and broadcast studios
and museums to provide the

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lighting specification
documentation for the new MGM

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Las Vegas sphere and everything
in between.

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Wow, that's a lot to talk about.
This is not gonna be a short

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episode, so please, let's
welcome.

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Actually, let's say goodbye to
live and let's say hello to

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Josh.
Hey, Josh.

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Hey, hey, Marissa, how, how's it
going?

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That was pretty anti climactic
cuz I counted you down and then

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just went, hey Josh.
Hey, I'm good.

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How are you today?
I'm good.

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I'm sitting here in Bonnie
Bonnie Scotland, but it is the

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weather is not so Bonnie today
so it's the heck are you doing

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which is Scotland.
So I actually live here most of

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the year and yeah, and I'm back
and forth to the States.

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So you know we're we're
recording this at 2:00 in the

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afternoon my time.
So what you're Are you on the

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East Coast?
I'm on the East Coast.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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You're on the East Coast.
That's right.

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So it's, it's 1111 for you now,
Is that right?

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Yeah.
Yeah, we had, we had somebody on

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last week who was in I think
Austria and you know we were

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recording same time 10.
No, it's 10 right now, sorry.

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So we.
Were recording.

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At 10:00 in the morning, my
time.

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And he had a nice glass of white
wine that he was sipping the

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whole time.
And I'm like, you know, I feel

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like I should be day drinking,
you know, Like I should be

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morning drinking with you, you
know, so.

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Yeah.
But I I do that all the time.

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But I mean the the, the toughest
part of it all is that you know

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we have projects on the West
Coast of America, we have

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projects in Europe.
So sort of kind of dividing

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those time zones and trying to
figure out where everybody is at

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a certain time and there's
oftentimes this little window of

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of hours in a day where we can
all kind of come together.

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So it's it's we're used to it.
I had no idea you were were.

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Not in the US And So what got
you over there, I'm guessing?

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Oh gosh.
Something to do with a partner

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mate.
No, my my wife's actually a

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screenwriter.
But what got me here, I guess

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it's it's kind of a long,
convoluted story.

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We we've been doing projects
here for, you know, the good

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part of a decade and in some way
or another I started started 3

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LR design in 2016, which was a
kernel of an idea that came from

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my my dear friend Matt Lloyd who
was the founder of GDS back in

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the day and then sold GDS to
ETC.

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But we had a lot of different
projects going on.

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So we have, you know a number of
projects in the cruise industry.

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Of course the ships are built in
Germany and and France and Italy

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and Spain, so this this made for
a much easier spot for hopping

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off to to get to those projects
as well as the.

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European project out of Italy
or?

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Spain.
Well or France?

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Well, actually we.
So maybe six or seven years ago

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I did some ancestry.
Some ancestry.

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What What research, I suppose.
Did a little archaeology into my

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family's history and dug up
quite a bit of information that

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I'm my family actually comes
from Cornwall in England.

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And oddly enough, we start
looking online, getting into a

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little bit more and we find out
that the home that my 12th great

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grandfather built was actually
for sale in in Cornwall.

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And it was built in 1637.
So of course it was

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astronomical.
It was like this estate in

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Cornwall and Cornwall is not an
inexpensive place to be.

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So we go to Cornwall and we go
and we see it.

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And the company, a company
bought it that runs a boutique

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hotel called the Pig.
And they were turning it into

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this boutique hotel.
And I asked could we go and walk

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through.
They said no health and safety

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all of those things.
So we we met up with the foreman

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there and he said tell you what
come back on the weekend, I'll

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walk you through the sights of
we went into that.

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So there's a lot of family
history in the UK and if we Fast

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forward a bit we thought, OK, as
we move three LR design over to

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the UK kind of as a home base.
We initially thought let's let's

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do that in England.
Matt's in England And then my

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son said hey dad, I'm looking at
universities in Scotland and he

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said I'm, I'm looking at
University of Saint Andrews.

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And we had come to Scotland
numerous times and we loved it,

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loved it, especially on the East
Snoop of Fife.

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And basically he made a decision
to go to school here.

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And we thought, well, let's be
somewhere that maybe we can take

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him out for a meal once in a
while pretty easily.

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Or you know, if he wants to come
home and do laundry on a

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weekend, we're we're close
enough that he can do that.

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Let him live his own life.
But you don't want.

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To be on the top of him, but you
want to be.

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Close exactly you can see.
Him every week, yeah.

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That's cool.
Exactly, exactly.

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So, So yeah, we we see him
probably over a couple of weeks

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and I think that was the sort of
the final decision bringing us

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to Scotland rather than than
down in England, but.

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My so I told you earlier my
son's a racing driver and and he

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raced all year last year in
England and for part of the year

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he raced for a Scottish team and
I can't remember what town

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they're from or anything but and
I can't remember the name of the

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town that he ended up in.
But Jeremy went they do you know

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who Jim Clark is?
Was He's dead now, But Jim

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Clark?
Just like the name sounds for.

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Me, I think he was either.
He was like one of the very

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early champions of Formula One
and Scottish guy and so every

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year they do the anniversary of
him winning the Formula One

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championship in his town that he
grew up in, which I could tell

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you later I forget what it is.
But he so they they were doing

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the 50th anniversary last year.
And so they invited my son to

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come bring his car there, his
race car, and sit under a booth,

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a tent thing, and answer
questions, take pictures with

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people and stuff.
What a cool event.

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And to see the trucks, It was in
front of a castle and the trucks

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couldn't get to the castle to
unload the cars.

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So he had to drive his car
through the streets of this

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little village to get to where
the truck could park, right.

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And so, you know, just waving at
people.

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Hi, how you doing?
How you doing in a formula race

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car?
Driving down the streets of of

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Scotland, right?
So that's really cool

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experience.
Yeah, that's really cool.

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How?
How exciting.

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So so.
For yeah, it's a cool.

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It's a great place to be 8
years.

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Now you've been in.
I mean, other than the weather,

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the weather sucks.
Well, you know, it's on where we

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are.
We're on the east nook of Fife,

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so it's just the little
peninsula north of Edinburgh.

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And it's almost like a
microclimate.

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So, you know, it'll be raining
over the hill, past Saint

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Andrews and on toward Dundee and
all of that.

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And it'll be sunny over here and
it'll be, you know, I'm doing

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math in degrees, you know,
Fahrenheit versus Celsius here.

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But it's, you know, we're always
a few seems like a few degrees

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warmer Celsius, maybe 1010°
warmer Fahrenheit than than they

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are just, you know, 10 miles
down the road.

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So it's How long did somebody
take you?

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Learning metric did.
That take you a while.

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Well we've we've we've only been
here officially full time for

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about a year and a half.
So we we were kind of back and

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forth a a bit before that but we
finally bought a place here

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about a year and a half ago and
I'll tell you where it still

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gets me is I I go to the gym
quite a bit.

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So I'm a I'm a CrossFit Masters
athlete and that's a whole other

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podcast I can talk to you about.
But doing metric measurements in

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weight is always something for
me.

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That and it was a quick quick
learning because it's it's 2.2

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kilograms per pound pounds per
sorry, pounds per kilogram.

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Yes, see I'm already doing the
math.

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Well, I'm and.
I'm Canadian and and I'm of an

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age where I was in like the 6th
grade I think when Canada

225
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,840
switched over to metric.
So I knew both and I also

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00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,800
learned the conversions in
school, so I learned it all

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00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,520
properly.
So for me, it's always been

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00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,360
second nature.
Like you could tell me in miles

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00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,600
or kilometers and I'll know
exactly what you're saying.

230
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,320
Right.
Well, I, I, I think they should

231
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,640
teach this to every American.
I mean because it it it's

232
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,240
extremely useful any anywhere
else you go in the world it's

233
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,560
extremely useful and all this
back and forth stuff.

234
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,920
So I'm constantly doing doing
that kind of math, you know,

235
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,720
really quickly I learned to to
do that conversion when I went

236
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:40,480
and loaded up a bar for a back
squat with a bunch of with a

237
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,440
bunch of weights on it and
thinking in pounds and stood up

238
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,200
off the rack and quickly
realized it was it was kilos so.

239
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,360
I made a mistake here, yeah.
Exactly.

240
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,960
Well, you're becoming 2.2 times
as strong then.

241
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:55,840
That's it.
That's it.

242
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,400
Yeah.
That that's the good news.

243
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,280
Well, that's really cool.
I I I like that.

244
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,000
So obviously your family back
here, do they come visit you or

245
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,000
anything?
Like are they like cool Josh

246
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,040
lives in Scotland.
We're going to go over there all

247
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,280
the time.
I know.

248
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,400
Yeah, they do.
And they.

249
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,240
Never do it.
Family, family and friends.

250
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,440
My my brother who I'm probably
closest with still has not been

251
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,080
over.
Had had mom over last year.

252
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,200
She enjoyed that and she's
getting up there in age, so it's

253
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,120
it was a hard trip on her, but
it was good for her to do that.

254
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,680
And my my wife's family the
same.

255
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,160
Of course.
We had a lot of friends saying

256
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,040
hey, you're in Scotland now, I'm
going to come over.

257
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,520
Seems like everyone wants to
come over in August, which is in

258
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,480
Edinburgh, the time to be here.
You know, we've got Fringe

259
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,040
Festival going on and the tattoo
and everything else, so yeah.

260
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,000
Yeah.
My son, the doors always open.

261
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,800
My son got a whole bunch of
pictures at the castle, the

262
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,920
Edinburgh Castle, and thought it
was pretty cool and stuff.

263
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,880
He, he, he had fun being a
tourist there for a few days.

264
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,040
But yeah, you know, when I moved
from Calgary, Canada to South

265
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,400
Florida, similar, you know, like
for the first year or two,

266
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,280
because it was Florida and
because Canada's so damn cold,

267
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,120
you know, I'd get some visitors
in the winter and then even that

268
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,560
mellowed out because it's a long
trip.

269
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,480
It's it's almost like going to
Scotland, you know, from

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00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,480
Calgary, Canada.
Right.

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00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,960
You can't really get a direct
flight so it ends up being an 8

272
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,800
or 9 hour day of flying and and
so yeah, I don't get a ton of

273
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,600
visitors and now I go back and
forth.

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00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,200
I have I have a place in the
mountains in Canada that I spend

275
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,920
the the warm half of the year
and then come back down to

276
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,280
Florida.
So I guess I'm truly a snowbird

277
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,200
now.
Or whatever they call them these

278
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,800
days, the kids these days.
So.

279
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,360
These days.
We got a lot of stuff to talk

280
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,600
about, I you know.
I Oh, yeah.

281
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,440
I don't know if you've heard any
of our podcasts, but I like to

282
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,400
find out how people get into
this, this crazy industry of

283
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,240
ours.
And you might be young enough

284
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,720
where you actually came in with
a legitimate, you know, college

285
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,760
degree and stuff like that,
versus so many people who came

286
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,840
in by accident.
How?

287
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,520
How did that happen for you?
Let's see.

288
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,599
Well, well, I am in my 50s, so
that does qualify me as a geezer

289
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,160
now, I think.
I think these days you look.

290
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,800
Younger.
You look younger.

291
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:15,440
Yeah.
Yeah, Eric.

292
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,560
Loder from.
Elation.

293
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,800
Eric Loder from Elation put the
definition at 50, he said.

294
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,040
At 50, you're a geezer. 450,
you're not.

295
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,720
But I've had a you know, I've
had.

296
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,800
I've had young ladies, young
men, you know, I don't care.

297
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,760
Like a it's just a name of the
podcast.

298
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:30,880
You don't have to be.
A little.

299
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,120
Although many of my guests are
so.

300
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,840
No, I think that's great.
Yeah.

301
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,520
Gosh, I mean, getting into this
industry, I mean, for me,

302
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,680
honestly, it goes back to when I
was, when I was.

303
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,800
I'll give you the abridged
version when it when it goes

304
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,880
back to when I was probably 4
years old and my parents decided

305
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,320
to put me in plays locally, you
know, community theater, those

306
00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:00,640
types of things.
Oddly enough, I ended up, no, I

307
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,000
don't think so.
You know, my mom was always like

308
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,000
she loved to do skits and things
like that.

309
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,440
You know, that's what she called
them.

310
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,560
So you know I kind of started in
the theater and she kept

311
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,080
enrolling me into these like
Fine Arts, workshop type summer

312
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,160
programs and you know all of
these things and and so I

313
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,400
actually had some on stage
experience as a child and I was

314
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,800
in a couple of commercials and
and various things.

315
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,800
And so you know by the time high
school rolled around I knew I

316
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,720
wanted to work in this industry.
And I by the beginning of high

317
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,600
school I really started
designing scenery.

318
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,000
I was really into like
architectural design and my

319
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,440
initial thought was I want to be
an architect but I could be a

320
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,520
scenic designer you know.
And so I I focused on what can I

321
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,320
design for the stage and
thought, well, I can always just

322
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,280
roll that into going to school
for architecture or doing

323
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,400
something like that.
So I never rolled.

324
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,920
Yeah, bridging.
Bridging the two together,

325
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,600
basically.
You know, architecture and

326
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,680
theater.
I'll do scenic design, yeah.

327
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,080
That's correct.
Yeah.

328
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,840
Well, I never really rolled it
into to architecture that way,

329
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,560
right.
I did.

330
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,920
I had a wonderful professor or
what a teacher in high school

331
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,600
Joe Burnsworth, who really I
think shaped, shaped and molded

332
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,280
me as far As for a career in and
what I'm doing doing now, I I

333
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,400
don't think I would be here
doing what I'm doing if it

334
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,680
wasn't for him.
So a shout out to everyone out

335
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,720
there who has had that teacher
at some point in their life,

336
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,480
that's really made a difference.
You know teachers are teachers

337
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,880
are so important, whether it's
just a mentor or a teacher.

338
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,680
I mean unbelievable.
So, you know, he kind of let me

339
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:52,240
run wild with with design
throughout throughout school.

340
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,240
And I did some things I probably
shouldn't have.

341
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,800
You know, especially like nights
and weekends in the school where

342
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,280
I just decided to, you know,
turn our, turn our stage with

343
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,520
some friends into a black box
theater and just build it on the

344
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,360
stage without him knowing.
And then, you know, quickly

345
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,760
being taken down to the
principal's office on on Monday

346
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,920
morning because what did you do?
You know, nothing like walking

347
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,520
into a National Honor Society
ceremony where they're supposed

348
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,320
to tap everyone and there is no
stage because we've put up flats

349
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,760
across the whole front of the
stage and so.

350
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,800
Well, because I was at first, I
was thinking, that doesn't sound

351
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,600
so harmful.
What's the big deal?

352
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,480
Like, jeez, sticklers, you know?
But yeah, when when everything's

353
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,080
missing, that's a.
Bit of a problem.

354
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,840
Well, I, you know, I remember
actually going into the

355
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,800
principal's office and I hadn't
even planned to talk about this

356
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,960
and I probably haven't talked
about this for 20 years.

357
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,960
But I remember, I remember going
in there and and he was with me

358
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,080
my the theater teacher, drama
teacher and and the principal

359
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,520
was looking at me kind of
sternly but with this smile on

360
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,480
her face.
You know, she was trying not to

361
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,840
laugh about it and and and I
remember her saying to him well,

362
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,040
he's so serious because I was
like serious about all of this

363
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,000
stuff.
And I, you know, I was

364
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,200
apologetic that that happened
but I just thought I was doing

365
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,120
something better for for
everyone and in the theater

366
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:18,640
department and she said he's so
serious and and my my professor

367
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,880
said or my teacher said well
he's just serious about his

368
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,400
craft.
And and I remember that it's

369
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,520
always stuck with me and it's
one of those things that really

370
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,080
I think kind of launched me
into, Yeah, I am serious about

371
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,000
this.
And that was something that, you

372
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,080
know, you know, I started
designing more scenery, more

373
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,560
lighting, really getting into
lighting.

374
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,280
I mean we had a handful of like
Cleagle fixtures and you know,

375
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,800
some Altman, you know, 360 QS we
had just gotten and you know,

376
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,600
that were kind of newish.
So, I mean, you know, those kind

377
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,520
of things, scoops and you know,
all those old school fixtures

378
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,200
that, you know, most people
today go, what is that?

379
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,080
But decided, yeah, decided to go
to school.

380
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,520
Decided to go to university for
that.

381
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,120
For lighting design, technical
design, Went to Otterbein

382
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:14,280
College in Ohio.
And no, I'm from Virginia,

383
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,720
Virginia Beach, VA, originally.
Yeah, it's funny.

384
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,520
I know, I know.
One other Josh, and he's from

385
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,960
Virginia Beach.
Yeah, what's this like?

386
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,080
Josh Ryan.
Do you know Josh Ryan?

387
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,600
Josh Ryan Don't know Josh Ryan.
There's actually another

388
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,920
kinetics.
He worked for Color Kinetics for

389
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,800
years, and now he works for
another LED manufacturer.

390
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,080
I forget which one.
He's a sales guy, but worked for

391
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,000
Color Kinetics in the early
years in in the heyday of Color

392
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,280
Kinetics, and he's about 7 feet
tall, built like a football

393
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,360
player.
You'd you'd know him if you if

394
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:52,320
you knew him.
But yeah, he's the only other

395
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,840
guy I know from Virginia Beach,
and he happens to be named Josh.

396
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,960
There's actually another Josh
Allen from Virginia Beach.

397
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,560
I think he was, he's a dancer,
was on one of those you know,

398
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,080
reality dance shows back in the
day.

399
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,480
So anyway, but yeah, I went to,
so I went to to college at at

400
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,640
Otterbein in Ohio and you know,
the professors there were great

401
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,000
and befriended them And and I
thought I was going to be a

402
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,400
scenic designer at that point.
And I was getting more into

403
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,160
lighting.
And I think probably what

404
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:32,200
influenced me really to get into
lighting is that I had an

405
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,960
opportunity to work with Tom
Skelton and he was designing the

406
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:45,280
Ohio Ballet and I remember
focusing with him.

407
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,320
This was probably in the last
couple years of his life and

408
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,200
just sort of watching him work.
And I was so intrigued by the

409
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:02,560
way that that Tom Skelton worked
as a designer and it just it's

410
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,480
just always stuck in my mind.
I remember standing on stage and

411
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:11,480
and focusing a dance plot with
him and he would not say

412
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:12,800
anything.
He would stand there and he

413
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,320
would chain smoke and you know,
he would just not say a thing.

414
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,680
He would look up and just do
this or, you know, just put up a

415
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,160
hand for a shutter cut but never
spoke.

416
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,400
And if you had to speak, it was
like one of those things where

417
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,880
you didn't want him to have to
speak, You just needed to do.

418
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,560
You needed to understand what he
had to do.

419
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,440
And then I was so intrigued by
that.

420
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,600
So you know after school we
decided to.

421
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:46,600
I met my wife in college and she
was a performance major but she

422
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,880
really wanted to get into
casting so moved to New York and

423
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,240
she was working for casting
director's office as an

424
00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:00,960
associate and I decided to just
start knocking on stage doors.

425
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,960
I had only done three years of
of college she was a year ahead

426
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,880
of me.
So I said well screw this 4th

427
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,280
year I'm just going to move to
New York with with her.

428
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,400
We weren't.
We weren't married yet, but

429
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,000
that's what you do for love and
started knocking on stage doors

430
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:24,520
and trying to get work.
And so it was kind of there back

431
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,560
and forth for a year in the city
with her making contacts, doing

432
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,600
what I could.
We got married.

433
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,320
I decided to go, go back and
finish my degree just to do it.

434
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,440
So yes, I do have that college
degree, So.

435
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,280
That was what, like mid 90s or
something, right?

436
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:48,680
95 Yes, 95.
And I got my BFA in theater,

437
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:55,200
emphasis in lighting design.
My wife is from South Carolina,

438
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,840
so sort of have these steps
along the way.

439
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,600
We kind of moved to where she
was from.

440
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,760
And for almost a year, because I
couldn't, I couldn't get

441
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,800
anything else going.
I was pulling Skytrackers around

442
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,960
behind, behind a truck and doing
a lot of like, you know, Piggly

443
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,680
Wiggly's and strip clubs and
those kind of those kind of

444
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,160
openings and there's some.
Back up a second though.

445
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,360
You got your lighting, Yeah,
degree in in New York.

446
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,080
Yeah.
The place where you'd want a

447
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,720
lighting degree and.
No, I got my light, got my

448
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,720
degree in Ohio.
Oh, but then had been to New

449
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,760
York for about a year and went
back and finished the degree in

450
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,240
Ohio.
Oh, OK.

451
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,760
OK.
So you were back in Ohio,

452
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,440
because obviously that degree
would come in pretty handy in

453
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,560
New York.
You know, there's a few.

454
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,440
Places, Absolutely.
You could use that and you know,

455
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,680
but who knows?
I mean, maybe had you stayed in

456
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,480
New York and and used that
degree in theater in New York,

457
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,560
you'd still be in New York
homeless right now with, you

458
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,680
know?
Well, that was, that was just

459
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,640
New York round one.
So yeah, it's a it's a long and

460
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,280
convoluted story and I am giving
you the abridged version you've

461
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,160
done.
I did.

462
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,280
It was.
Let me back up a SEC Right out

463
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,560
of high school I went and did a
show on the Outer Banks of North

464
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,360
Carolina called The Lost Colony
Outdoor Drama.

465
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,800
I don't know if you've heard of
that show.

466
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,720
It was the longest, the longest
running, and it still is the

467
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,440
longest running show in American
history.

468
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,320
I believe they're about to hit
their eight, eighty 80th season,

469
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:48,840
80th season this year.
So The Lost Colony, it is the

470
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,680
story of Sir Walter Raleigh and
Queen Elizabeth sending over the

471
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,080
first colonies to America.
This colony completely vanishes.

472
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,440
They don't know what's what
happened to it in 1587.

473
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,280
So it was a sort of an outdoor
symphonic drama.

474
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,480
I met a lot of people on that
show who are still my friends

475
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,480
today and we're really
influential people that I ended

476
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,840
up working with in New York.
People that are still working on

477
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,120
Broadway in New York.
You know you know the the the

478
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,920
the production costume designer
at the time was was William Ivy

479
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,720
Long of course he he had won a
number of Tony Awards.

480
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,640
So there were it was a good
place to be in the summer.

481
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,480
So while I was while I was going
back to school and my wife was

482
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,960
in New York and we moved to
Charleston for that year and I

483
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,360
was pulling things around.
It never failed.

484
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,280
Each summer, for the next seven
years or so, we would go back

485
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,200
and spend our summers on
beautiful Roanoke Island doing

486
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,840
the show.
It was almost like that summer

487
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,640
stock retreat that you just love
to go back to.

488
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,040
And it didn't matter until it
just didn't make sense anymore

489
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,600
because you're like, OK, we
can't just pick up and leave.

490
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,520
We have, like, real lives, you
know?

491
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,720
So back up to Charleston.
I didn't want to pull sky

492
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,280
trackers around.
That wasn't what I went and got

493
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,160
a degree to do.
I wanted to be a lighting

494
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,760
designer and my wife wanted to
be a casting director.

495
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,760
And we said, well, Charleston,
SC is certainly not the place

496
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,240
for that.
So we had very little money and

497
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,600
we were like, what can we do?
We were willing to sell, you

498
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,200
know, sell our souls and plasma
to to get enough money to scrape

499
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,840
together to to move to New York.
So I got a call from the general

500
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,000
manager of the Lost Colony and
they were renovating their,

501
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,320
their theater and he said, Josh,
and this is like before the days

502
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,000
of like solid Internet.
I mean they were like, you know,

503
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,560
you had your AOL and you had,
you know, your prodigy, if you

504
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,640
remember that kind of thing and
those sort of things that were

505
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,920
out there.
And he said, Josh, we have a

506
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,840
problem.
And he said, I know you're a

507
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,400
resourceful guy.
The seating manufacturer that we

508
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,720
had chosen to go in for, and
this is about 1800 seats in this

509
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,000
amphitheater, has gone under and
we don't have a seeding

510
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,440
manufacturer and the seeds are
supposed to go in in six weeks.

511
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:29,600
And do you know anyone?
And in that moment I think is

512
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,480
what really changed things for
me as far as getting back to New

513
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,800
York and getting into the
industry because I could have

514
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,640
said no, I don't know anyone,
I'm sorry.

515
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:44,560
I, you know, I wish I did.
But instead I said, well, I I

516
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,040
may know some some folks.
I mean, you know some good

517
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,880
possibilities.
You know some good options for

518
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,560
this.
Let let me come back to you.

519
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,360
So I hung up the phone and
immediately started calling

520
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,200
friends, friends of friends who
do you know, who you know in

521
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:06,800
seating ended up with talking to
the Rep from Irwin Seating at

522
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,400
the time.
And I said, look, if I hand you

523
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,360
a deal to do 1800 seats I need
and they had given me what they

524
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,000
needed to pay for them and I
said can you do it for this

525
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,040
amount and figure in $10 a chair
for me as a as a Commission on

526
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,960
this.
And they came back to me and

527
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,120
said yes, we can do that and we
can deliver in six weeks.

528
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,200
So I had them send a sample down
and so your cuts 18.

529
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,520
Grand just for saying yes to
something that you had no idea

530
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,120
where you were going to find
seeds, right?

531
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,920
Well, it exactly.
It didn't end up quite being

532
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,880
that much, but still at the end
of the day they got their seats.

533
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,960
They didn't pay any more than
they were going to pay before.

534
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,720
I ended up getting a Commission
on it.

535
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,640
And we took all of that money.
We moved to New York, paid for

536
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,040
six months rent upfront to our
landlord and basically said

537
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,680
we're going to give our six
months self six months to a year

538
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,160
to not have to worry about
money.

539
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,880
Let's just go and get work and
figure things out and and so

540
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,080
that was a huge thing and that's
something that I always tell

541
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,800
people it's like when you're
faced with a question that's

542
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,760
like can you do this or do you
know this is the answer always

543
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,520
no if if if your initial answer
is no or should you take a beat

544
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,920
and say let me think about this
for a second and and I and I

545
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,040
think that's really what got us
back to New York and really got

546
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,800
me going to get started in the
industry.

547
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,360
Yeah.
Well, and you know.

548
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,200
It's funny because it's a common
theme and it's not even really,

549
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,640
let me think about that, You
know, rock'n'roll business

550
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,280
especially.
It's yes.

551
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,720
You know, Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.

552
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,720
I've I've.
I'm a seating expert.

553
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,720
You know no problem without
getting yourself into trouble

554
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,960
by, you know, BS ING people and
without obviously causing a

555
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,960
problem to the customer.
But you know, most of the most

556
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,400
successful people I know in this
industry are people who say yes

557
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,360
and then figure it out, you
know, somehow.

558
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,280
Yeah, exactly.
I I like to say I I like to jump

559
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,680
off the Cliff sometimes and just
learn to fly on the way down.

560
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,800
I mean, that's the you know,
Yeah, I.

561
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,080
Agree with you.
I agree with you.

562
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

563
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040
So you're in New York.
Rent is paid for six months,

564
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,960
which is cool.
That was a smart decision.

565
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,480
And So what was?
What was work?

566
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,400
So I kind of picked up some of
the contacts I left off year or

567
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,320
so before started picking up
some shows for design.

568
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,080
I was actually doing some
production electrician work and

569
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,600
kind of realized, OK, if I'm
going to design, I kind of need

570
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,760
to put down the wrench and, you
know, and focus on design.

571
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,240
Yeah.
Because you do get to a point

572
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,840
where you don't want people
thinking of you as, oh, that

573
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,640
guy's such a great production
electrician.

574
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,520
He's not a designer.
And so they do.

575
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,080
They do and and it's, you know,
I, I will say that and and I

576
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,640
love doing production
electrician work.

577
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,800
I love getting my hands dirty
doing those kind of things.

578
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,600
And I think that anyone who does
that who is also a designer

579
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,120
benefits from having their hands
on on the gear and and being

580
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,080
able to do those things.
I certainly worked with a number

581
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,120
of designers in that time that I
won't name names.

582
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,880
When I was production
electrician and they were what I

583
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,960
call book designers, you know,
they went to school, they learn

584
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,760
by the book that was the design
work that they did.

585
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,440
But when it came to physically
putting a show in and making

586
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,360
things happen, some of the
conversations that you'd have,

587
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,920
it was, it was pretty apparent
that they didn't quite

588
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,280
understand what someone was
going through to be able to give

589
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,440
them what it was that they were
asking for.

590
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:51,360
And I think that, you know,
people that actually have that

591
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,840
experience on both sides, even
when they do put down the

592
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,480
wrench, they they gain a lot
from that.

593
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,960
So yeah, it's a good point.
Yeah, you.

594
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,960
Know, I tell.
You back to a racing analogy.

595
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,440
So you know when my son first
started racing and he was in

596
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,760
carts and you know I had to buy
a trailer and I had an F-250

597
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,400
pickup truck and I never
wrenched on any of his carts.

598
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,320
Thank God, because he he would
have crashed.

599
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,640
But I I'll tell you what by
driving the truck, I learned how

600
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,120
to pack the trailer.
Because when it was packed

601
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,520
wrong, you know it was doing
this down the.

602
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,480
Highway people.
Were flipping me the bird and

603
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,360
stuff and when it was packed
properly, so I went, what's the

604
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,160
deal here?
And somebody said, well it's all

605
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,600
packed wrong.
So I said, OK, show me how it

606
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,360
should be done.
And they did.

607
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,960
And from then on, whatever
mechanics we were using or

608
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,160
whatever, I'd say, hey, make
sure you do it like this, you

609
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,120
know.
And so sometimes you have to put

610
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,280
the show in to learn how to
design the show.

611
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,040
It's it's a very, very good
point.

612
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,040
Yeah, actually and that's a
great, that's a great analogy

613
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,920
and I think you know.
I have many.

614
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,680
No, it's not that wacky because
I I will tell you, I mean, when

615
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,040
I was in New York during this
time, I was, I was, I was

616
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,200
designing a show.
Gosh, where was it?

617
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,960
It was in the theater at
Marymount Manhattan College, and

618
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,280
it was a show that was supposed
to be workshopped for what would

619
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,520
hopefully be, you know, a
Broadway run or something

620
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,120
moving.
Moving on didn't.

621
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,520
Didn't get that far, but I
remember there was no one that

622
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,280
could.
We we needed some additional

623
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,880
fixtures.
We got to a point in the show,

624
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,800
Some numbers were added.
Things happened.

625
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,840
We didn't have things in place.
You know it.

626
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,920
It wasn't because it was dance.
They wanted some very specific

627
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,920
lighting in certain places and
we just didn't have the fixtures

628
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,520
to do that.
It wasn't like we had a bunch of

629
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,880
moving lights, you know, at the
time or we had, you know, LE DS

630
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,560
that could change color.
It was like you plan for every

631
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,160
fixture and what every fixture
did.

632
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,960
And so I remember thinking, OK,
well, I need to get these.

633
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:01,760
I'm calling around, how can I
get these quickly?

634
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,240
They have to be put in tomorrow.
Who's got them?

635
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,400
It ends.
It ends up being that Altman

636
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,800
Lighting had had what we needed.
They were the closest to that

637
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,200
could get it all together that
quickly and said we'll send

638
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,680
someone up.
So we got a truck, we rented a

639
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,840
truck and I was the only one
that could end up driving up

640
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,640
there to pick the stuff up.
And I didn't mind.

641
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,120
My my brother was with me and he
was often my production

642
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,280
electrician when I was
designing.

643
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,280
And so we drive.
We drive up to Yonkers.

644
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,240
And have you, have you ever been
up to the Altman lighting of

645
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,080
Yonkers when it was up there?
So friends.

646
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,400
With Bobby Altman.
Oh yeah, great.

647
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,840
So you know when you come out of
there there's like there's this

648
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,880
big hill that you kind of have
to have to go up and and just

649
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,880
thinking about you and the and
packing the truck.

650
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,000
Well they they would because of
the the union agreement and

651
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,240
everything you know they would
sort of drop the gear and then

652
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,040
you had to put it on the truck
And so you know it's like pile a

653
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,640
bunch of cable at the back end
of the truck to keep the boxes

654
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,760
from rolling and and all of
this.

655
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:10,200
And so I remember that happened
yeah you you did have to plan

656
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,520
and as we're pulling out that
big hill at Altman my my brother

657
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,240
and I hear like this really loud
banging noise and we're like oh

658
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:20,920
crap.
And I feel, I feel the truck

659
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,320
like doing this.
And so we get up, we pull over,

660
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,520
we go back the back door the the
roll up door is completely just

661
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,240
bent out.
We can't get it open.

662
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,960
We had to like put a Jack in
there and try to straighten this

663
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,040
thing out, destroyed it because
it wasn't packed properly,

664
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,040
right.
It was just chucked in there and

665
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,120
and that's that's the way it
happened.

666
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,760
So not about analogy to
understand how you have to do

667
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,520
something before you have to.
Oh, absolutely.

668
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,960
No.
And I mean, I I also, I grew up

669
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,800
playing in bands and you know,
when we toured it wasn't very

670
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,640
glamorous.
It was a converted school bus

671
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,680
where the front half was
passenger seats and the back

672
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,320
half was our gear.
And if you wanted to sleep,

673
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,560
you'd usually crawl into the
back half and sleep on top of

674
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,320
some speaker boxes or something
or drum, you know, cases or

675
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,160
whatever.
And if it was packed right, you

676
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,320
were kind of safe.
If it wasn't then things moved

677
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,240
around.
You ended up wedged in between

678
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:22,360
2:00, you know two sets of
speakers or something.

679
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,520
And so yeah, I've I've always
sort of learned to appreciate a

680
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,120
a well packed truck, I guess in
really weird ways.

681
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,960
Right, Yeah.
Absolutely.

682
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:34,600
So that's cool.
You.

683
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:36,360
You.
Had that, so you had the tech

684
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,160
experience that probably helped
you design better and and

685
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,600
probably thinking about the
crews too, thinking about the

686
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,080
people who are going to have to
work on this stuff or put it in

687
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,600
or take it out or whatever.
Like, I think rock'n'roll shows

688
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,400
are designed like that these
days, but I I don't even know

689
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,240
that theater shows are even to
this day.

690
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,480
Oh no, I still, I still feel
like theater shows to this day.

691
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,440
Even being a part of them and
being being just the designer

692
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,560
and and not doing all that other
stuff.

693
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,560
You know, I I see that.
I feel like there's a lot of

694
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,480
magic that kind of happens with
with theater shows or expected

695
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,320
magic that just happens.
You know.

696
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,120
I do feel like sometimes people
think they can just wave a wand

697
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,640
and.
That's all it takes.

698
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,320
Go and and make it happen.
And it it is important to

699
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,280
understand all of those people,
the crew and staff and who who

700
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,960
has to do what to make those
things happen.

701
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,920
So yeah, yeah, really important.
So how did so you did that that

702
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:45,120
I think you said it was a dance
thing at at Marymount and I

703
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,320
think that ran for a little
while, right, Like for a couple

704
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,120
years or something?
No, actually that was a really

705
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,680
short run on on that one.
Yeah, it was.

706
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,960
I was doing another show where I
was the designer and we did it.

707
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,120
We did a production.
Do you know Herrick Coleman?

708
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,280
I do know Herrick, yeah.
Yeah, Herrick.

709
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:08,920
Has Herrick ever been on on the
podcast?

710
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,680
Herrick won't come on.
I've.

711
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,520
I've asked him a few times.
Everyone other than Herrick has

712
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,720
come on, but Herrick won't.
And I think it's come on.

713
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:18,960
I think it's 'cause I always ask
him during an election cycle and

714
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,640
you know, him.
And I, let's just say I don't

715
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,960
vote the same as him or most
people in our industry probably.

716
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,320
But I'm not vocal about it.
Like I'm not.

717
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,440
I've never, I'm not a winger of
any wing.

718
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,000
You know, I'm Canadian.
Like normally we're pretty

719
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,000
liberal people, but I'm also a
businessman.

720
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,200
So when you become a
businessman, generally you start

721
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,720
looking, OK, what are my costs
looking like here?

722
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,000
Why am I paying this fee for
whatever?

723
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,160
And that gets you leaning to
voting a particular way.

724
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,320
But I don't care about it.
Like, I've never even asked my

725
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,720
friends who they voted for or
any of that kind of stuff.

726
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:57,680
But I I just have a suspicion
that that's maybe.

727
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,000
Part.
Of part of.

728
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,960
The decision you do you Herrick
does him, I'll do me.

729
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:03,680
I like.
I like Herrick.

730
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,640
You know, like the reason I ask.
Go go ahead.

731
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:09,040
I did AI did a zoom thing during
COVID.

732
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,400
I don't know that you ever came
on one of them, but we did a

733
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,240
weekly, like a happy hour every
Wednesday at 5:00.

734
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:19,320
All for, I don't know, I think
we did 70 episodes or something.

735
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,160
And.
And it would be, you know,

736
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,880
anything from 30 to 120 people
on there any given week.

737
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,400
Right.
And sometimes it was heated,

738
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,760
sometimes it was really fun.
But Herrick was always there,

739
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,280
you know, bitching about
everything while he's sitting in

740
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,160
a beautiful library, drinking
probably, you know, $200 Scotch

741
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,080
or something, right?
Oh, yeah.

742
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,720
Yeah.
And and I mean, it was just

743
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:47,280
classic Herrick, right?
But, you know, it was always a

744
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,520
lot of fun and I got to know him
really well during that period.

745
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,280
Like I I hadn't really done any
business with Herrick prior to

746
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,000
that.
And we've talked a lot since

747
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,680
then.
But I like the guy.

748
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,880
I wish he'd come on.
Yeah, well I bring him up

749
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,040
because we, I mean we're we're
friends and when whenever I'm in

750
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:09,320
the city, we try to you know try
to see him and of course at all

751
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,960
the trade shows and we like to
hang out.

752
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,600
We talk Scotch because I'm in
Scotland.

753
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,960
But he the reason I bring him up
is because I think I first met

754
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,400
Herrick and I was either 98 or
99.

755
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:28,680
I designed a show at at the new
vehicle on 42nd St. and Herrick

756
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,080
had just was just finishing a
show that was coming out of

757
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,400
there and that's that's where we
met.

758
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,800
I think he was doing a show
called Crash Test Dummies and it

759
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,760
was this crazy crazy show where
these acrobats were on these big

760
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,000
car springs.
You know another car analogy for

761
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,280
you to come up with something
with and they were jumping

762
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,480
around like crash test dummies
and doing this whole thing.

763
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,680
And I thought this thing is
crazy.

764
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,600
It was the first time I ever
really saw, got my hands on some

765
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,120
Color Kinetics gear to kind of
bring that back into

766
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,560
conversation.
Actually talked to the folks at

767
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,800
Color Kinetics in in Boston at
that point about, you know, if

768
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,800
they needed a representative in
the city and you know what that

769
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,560
looked like.
But yeah, so I I did a show then

770
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,800
that went in there and we were
kind of touring it around the

771
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,200
US.
So it's sort of every other

772
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,240
weekend I would fly out to the
to the new place and you know

773
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,560
put the show in, make sure it
went in OK and then fly back and

774
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,960
then do that a few weeks later.
And so it was it was a it was a

775
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,000
fun time where I felt like I had
all of these things going on.

776
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,920
You know, like when you're
really getting things going and

777
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,240
at that age in in your 20s and
and you're just like you don't

778
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:49,840
say no to anything.
You know, I was taking whatever

779
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,480
show came up I was doing, I was
lighting shows.

780
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,200
I was lighting some television
as well, so did did quite a bit

781
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:02,080
of work, did some work at Screen
Jump Studios and then also out

782
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:08,600
in out of Kauffman, Astoria
doing some things for

783
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,640
Nickelodeon and Lifetime
Networks.

784
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,200
And you know, like you said
though, an exciting.

785
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,600
Time like you could see it
becoming a real career at this

786
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:17,440
point.
Obviously.

787
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,120
Oh yeah, I mean it was just.
Like, shit, I've.

788
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:21,120
Made it.
I'm, I'm actually.

789
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,680
Made it doing lighting, yeah,
you know.

790
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,600
I I had joined United Scenic
Artists.

791
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,960
You know I was doing you know, I
mean it was the whole thing.

792
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,800
It was right.
I was living, living the dream

793
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,920
at that point in time.
And I think you you learn things

794
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,560
during that time.
You learn good life lessons.

795
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,200
And I think one of the things I
learned was you can't always say

796
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,400
yes to everything because you
you only have so much to give

797
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,480
and and if you can't give 100%
to to what you're working on,

798
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,160
then you're not giving enough to
the projects that you're working

799
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,720
on.
I mean you you can't you can't

800
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,840
get 50% to 10 projects if you
can only do five projects and

801
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,480
give 100%.
So I remember there was 1 winter

802
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,800
in the city and it was so cold
and we had these big snowstorms

803
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,160
and I I got so sick I walk in
ammonia.

804
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,600
I was doing like I think 4 shows
at one time.

805
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,880
So I was literally walking
across town, back and forth,

806
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,920
theater to theater as these
things were happening.

807
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,640
At the same time I was doing a
showdown in down in the village,

808
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:30,160
little little tiny off off at HP
playwrights down in down in the

809
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,680
village.
And I remember walking into that

810
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,480
space and thinking I am so sick.
I am so sick.

811
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,840
And I just crawled in under the
seating bank and like laid next

812
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,880
to dinner racks and had to fall
asleep.

813
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,520
And the production managers
would not let anyone bother me.

814
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,200
And they essentially let me just
sleep down there for 8 hours.

815
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:55,760
And I think after, I think after
that show is when I really kind

816
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,800
of leveled off and went OK, OK.
I felt like I've, I've made it

817
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,520
to this point.
I'm doing what I want to do.

818
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,600
I'm doing what I love.
But it's getting insane.

819
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,920
So we have to like really, you
know, level this, back it up.

820
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:11,720
Yeah.
So.

821
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,880
But a fun time.
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it.

822
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,720
It sounds, you know, again like
my son right now he's, he's off,

823
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:22,440
actually he just flew out today.
He's he's coaching a bunch of

824
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,960
drivers right now because you
know, racing is difficult in

825
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,880
that it's really, really
expensive when you get into cars

826
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,800
and and you don't have full
sponsorship.

827
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,080
So he's been very fortunate to
have some sponsorship, but it

828
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,160
just keeps getting more
expensive, like into the many

829
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,960
hundreds of thousands of dollars
for a season kind of thing,

830
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,600
right?
So you need massive corporate

831
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,160
sponsorship or a team that just
says, hey, we'll hire you as a

832
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,520
driver.
And he's got some of those

833
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,120
options sort of rearing their
heads.

834
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,160
But meanwhile he's out making
money coaching other drivers,

835
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,200
young drivers and stuff.
And you know, it's it's sort of

836
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,480
one of the things that I've
always taught him and I say to

837
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,240
everybody, like when we used to
have mechanics who worked for us

838
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,880
and you know, generally they'd
always complain I'm not making

839
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,600
as much money as you, you know,
I don't make enough money, blah,

840
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,040
blah.
My answer has always been, look,

841
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,240
you know you're doing exactly
what you want to be doing.

842
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:18,240
You you're doing what you'd be
doing if you had to pay to do it

843
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,000
and you're getting paid.
So you have one life, you've one

844
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,440
life, shut up, smile and and you
know, go to work.

845
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,160
And my son said that to me.
He said, dad, I love coaching

846
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:30,320
these kids.
It's a blast.

847
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,560
I can't believe I get paid to do
it, you know.

848
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,760
And he coaches on simulator too,
which, you know, because he got

849
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,080
very good at SIM throughout the
whole COVID thing.

850
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:43,800
So he he coaches drivers on on
simulator over like they're on

851
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,320
discord during the whole time
and he's.

852
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,040
He's.
Watching what they're doing and

853
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,200
saying you're turning too early,
you're turning too late,

854
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,840
whatever.
So yeah, I mean, that's amazing

855
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,560
that you managed to and
probably, you know, the whole

856
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,240
Frank Sinatra thing, you know,
if you can make it there, you

857
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,560
can make it anywhere.
So you did it in New York, you

858
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,880
know, Which is kind of cool,
right?

859
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,400
Yeah, yeah, it was.
It was very cool.

860
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,600
Yeah.
My, my wife was doing her thing

861
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,600
there at the same time.
I mean we we were like ships

862
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,440
passing in the night sometimes.
You know, she, I, I would be

863
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,680
coming home from a really late,
late call and she's literally

864
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,360
walking to the train in the
morning to to go to her office.

865
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,320
Yeah.
But yeah, it was really good.

866
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,120
You know, I and I continued that
on into the, you know, early

867
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,560
2000s and then just really,
really enjoyed that time in New

868
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,240
York.
I think we we've made a lot of

869
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:42,400
contacts and we got to the point
where we felt like, OK, we want

870
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,240
to have a family.
We don't, we don't necessarily

871
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:49,760
need to be in the city anymore.
I think a lot of people go

872
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,800
through that where they're like,
I got to be in the heart of it

873
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,240
all.
I got to be in the in the middle

874
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:56,000
of the rat race and then you get
to a point where it's like, OK,

875
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,840
I can, I've established enough
that I can I can do what I'm

876
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:05,480
doing from outside the city.
So we so we made a decision to

877
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:12,440
move to North Carolina to
Raleigh, NC, which is we had a

878
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,960
lot of friends kind of in that
area and we had North Carolina

879
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,000
ties from our Lost Colony days.
And you know, all of that sort

880
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,200
of thing.
And and you know what I was

881
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,200
going to do was just continue to
do, continue to design.

882
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:26,720
I would go back and forth to the
city.

883
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,640
I would go to regional theatre,
I would go do you know fly out

884
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,040
to wherever.
I just needed the airport, and

885
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:35,200
Raleigh had a pretty good
airport, so it made sense.

886
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,400
So we decided to have a family,
had our son Sam That was a great

887
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,320
place to to really raise him.
When we got there, I took a

888
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,080
position I had I had somebody
once tell me you you can have no

889
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,080
one pull the wool over your eyes
on anything because you've

890
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,080
really seen all sides of this
industry.

891
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,760
Took a position as a
installations manager for a

892
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:02,680
small theatrical dealer lighting
company doing doing install

893
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,560
work.
I was there for about a year and

894
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,680
as I continued to design and and
do what I was doing and then was

895
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:17,760
approached by the ETC Rep in the
territory and, you know, said,

896
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,640
you know, hey, are you
interested in in coming to, to

897
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,240
work with me as a Rep And I
thought, well, I've never been a

898
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,240
Rep I've seen what he's done and
I got to know him.

899
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:30,480
And he was a wonderful,
wonderful man.

900
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,400
His name was Bill, only he's no
longer with us.

901
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,160
But he said, yeah, come come to
work.

902
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,440
So he took me out on a job
interview on his bass boat, as

903
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:45,440
you do in North Carolina.
And yeah, and I ended up working

904
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:51,560
with Bill for, you know, about
the next four years or so before

905
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:57,560
having conversations with Robert
Long and Curtis Case Fang at

906
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,200
Theatre Consultants
Collaborative.

907
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,240
I known Robert who had been a
lost colony guy his whole family

908
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:06,000
had for so many years.
And turns out Robert and I lived

909
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,360
only a few blocks away from each
other in New York and never knew

910
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,320
it.
But they had started a a a

911
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:19,040
consultant agency called Theatre
Consultants Collaborative and

912
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,800
talked about me coming to join
them to design, to design

913
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,120
theaters.
You know, I was designing a lot

914
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,440
of lighting and control systems.
I've certainly gotten a lot of

915
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,880
experience doing that on the Rep
side of life with with Bill at

916
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:40,760
the WH Only company and went on
to be a theater consultant with

917
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:46,560
them for more than a decade,
designing hundreds of hundreds

918
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,920
of facilities, you know, all
over, but primarily US and

919
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,080
Canada.
So now you're designing

920
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,400
projects, though you're not
designing.

921
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,160
Shows you're designing,
installs.

922
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,240
You're designing the.
Actual theater designing

923
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:00,400
theaters, Yeah.
So as a theater consultant, I

924
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,280
mean, so we're, we're constantly
working with architects and

925
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,000
engineers.
I mean, those are typically our

926
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,400
clients.
You know, here's a concept for a

927
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,280
for a new theater building.
And then of course, we would

928
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,320
design all of the theater
components, the room shaping,

929
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,800
the systems.
We work with the acoustician.

930
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,280
We designed all the lighting
control systems, rigging and

931
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,320
automation systems, you know,
putting all of those things into

932
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,040
into place.
And I found very quickly that I

933
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:33,800
loved doing that as much or more
than I did putting, putting

934
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,320
shows into theaters and
designing shows.

935
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,640
Because the thing with a show is
that you never know how long

936
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,240
that show is going to run.
You know, unless it's a set run

937
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,320
and it's a short run, you know
you don't know.

938
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,720
So you put all this work into it
and then the show may run six

939
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,280
weeks, it may run, you know, six
months.

940
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,880
It has a lifespan typically
unless you're a, you know,

941
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,920
phantom or or something that
just runs, runs forever.

942
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,360
Not many of us have had those
those kind of shows, but we

943
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,680
where you have where you're
designing a building, you're

944
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,920
really thinking long term.
So it's you know how are the

945
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,080
users going to use this building
for the next 25 years, what is

946
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,400
that going to look like?
How can, how can it be scalable

947
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,920
for technology purposes, Where
are we going to be with

948
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,640
technology in 25 years, you know
when it comes to, when it comes

949
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,240
to our industry.
So I found that really trying to

950
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,960
plan and design for those
challenges and and those types

951
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:38,480
of spaces was something that I
absolutely loved and and and

952
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:44,520
continue to do to this day and
it's so I was with TCC for more

953
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:48,240
than a decade actually Apple
contacted me to to do a

954
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:52,160
commercial for on how we use
iPad for theater consulting.

955
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:57,200
So if you Google you know if you
Google theater consulting iPad

956
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,840
there there I am you'll see in
the Apple commercial.

957
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,240
Yeah yeah.
But I mean, we we, we did a lot

958
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:08,200
of wonderful projects and I love
those guys left left on the good

959
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:14,560
terms with them.
Started 3 LR design in 2016.

960
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,040
You know, TCC was primarily
living in the theater world

961
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,560
doing only theater projects.
I wanted to do arenas and cruise

962
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,080
ships and other types of other
types of projects that didn't

963
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,920
fit into that, that theater mold
and architectural or containment

964
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:41,320
type design and so kind of
ventured out no sooner did that

965
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:42,480
happen, Marcel.
Then.

966
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:49,320
Then I got a phone call that my
dear friend and previous

967
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:55,040
employer Bill only had passed
away from WH only company and I

968
00:55:55,040 --> 00:56:00,120
got a call from his widow and
she basically said I think Bill

969
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:01,880
would want you to have this
company.

970
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,280
Would you be interested?
In.

971
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:10,680
In buying this company and it
was never on my radar to do

972
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,720
that.
Never, never on my radar.

973
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,040
If you'd said do you want to be
a Rep again?

974
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,320
I would say no it wasn't my
radar.

975
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,880
I was happy doing what I was
doing but she put it to me in

976
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:26,880
such a way and and it was a
really good opportunity that you

977
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,640
know my wife and I talked about
it and I decided OK I I think

978
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,640
it's the right thing to do.
So we we purchased the Rep

979
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,400
agency but you had.
Already started 3LR.

980
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,760
Already started 3 LR.
Yeah so.

981
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:48,600
So now we have this sort of
situation where I had a a design

982
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,560
firm and a design company
designing projects and I had a

983
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,120
Rep agency that we we have
purchased.

984
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:56,600
Now our our territory for the
Rep.

985
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,720
Agency.
Exactly.

986
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,680
Our territory for the Rep agency
was the Carolinas and Bermuda,

987
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,080
North and South Carolina and
Bermuda.

988
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:12,880
And we, I tried to really draw a
line in the sand.

989
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,600
It was like, OK, here, here's
how we do this and here's how we

990
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,160
avoid this conflict.
I, you know, won't take projects

991
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,440
that will pay out commissions.
You know on the website that I'm

992
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:28,080
designing, I won't you know or
or if I do take a project

993
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,720
there's no Commission paid on
that particular you know on that

994
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:33,600
project.
So there was a lot of kind of

995
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,480
balancing that and we're working
that out.

996
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,920
But we try to be very
transparent about that and

997
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,640
owning, owning both those
companies added a number of

998
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,320
great people to I I renamed it
Huko Lighting and controls

999
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,000
people called it Huko anyway
because it was The Who only

1000
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:54,800
company and it took on a lot of
great folks there and really

1001
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,400
built that company up.
And then five years later was

1002
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,240
approached by Cesco, the largest
Rep agency in the country and

1003
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:10,040
they wanted to acquire Hookah.
So we we did a deal they they

1004
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:15,080
took Huko, I stepped away and
went right back to three LR

1005
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,160
which I had kept going you know
through that whole process.

1006
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:23,480
So that really allowed me to
refocus on on three LR and and

1007
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,760
and doing what we were doing.
Very cool at that point.

1008
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,280
The pieces just all seem to fall
together so well for you, you

1009
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:30,400
know, throughout.
I know.

1010
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,720
It's almost like you did it on
purpose, you know, All of it.

1011
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,840
It's.
Well, I did have people say I

1012
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,760
Did you plan all of this?
Like, yeah.

1013
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:39,840
I mean, it sure looks like it,
yeah.

1014
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:41,720
It looks like.
It it looks amazing.

1015
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,120
I can't be that.
Yeah it can't be that that

1016
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:49,120
fortunate to to plan it but but
yeah so 3 LR was going great.

1017
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,600
We were doing you know a number
of projects, some larger scale

1018
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,440
stuff of course a lot of things
we were you know signing ND as

1019
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,600
on things we can't talk about
you know with with three LR we

1020
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:05,720
we designed a lot of projects
that you know I I like to say we

1021
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,440
we white label projects for
people.

1022
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,120
So there may be other
consultants, other designers

1023
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:17,520
that everyone knows that we we
get, we can be the guts behind

1024
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,240
the glory and we're OK with
with.

1025
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,200
Doing that, somebody else gets
the credit.

1026
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,240
Is that what you're saying?
I'm not going to, I'm not going

1027
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:24,720
to say all the work.
I'm not going to say all the

1028
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,320
work.
But yeah, but we, we actually do

1029
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,560
a lot of white label design for
for other companies.

1030
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:37,280
We do that here in in the UK and
and in the US and of course we

1031
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:42,280
do, we do, we have.
So there's, gosh, there's

1032
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:49,840
fourteen of us now AT3LR design.
So we have offices in, let's

1033
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,680
see, we have a person in are
they all remote?

1034
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,720
We have a person.
They're all remote, all remote.

1035
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,760
Yes, we have.
We have folks up and down the

1036
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,120
East Coast.
We have Louisville, KY.

1037
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,280
We have a person in Austin, in
San Francisco.

1038
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,000
And then we have some people
over on this side of the pond

1039
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,240
as.
Well.

1040
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,960
So everyone works remote.
I should say that that I, I did

1041
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,440
kind of borrow that model from
TCC.

1042
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,440
It's a it's a tweaked version of
that model.

1043
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,720
But TCC was one of the first
consultancy firms to say we're

1044
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,200
all going to be remote, we're
all going to work from home.

1045
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,320
People thought we were we were
crazy for doing that.

1046
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,320
And then after a while they
started to realizing maybe we

1047
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:30,840
don't need all of these brick
and mortar.

1048
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,280
You know what, So.
You know, I don't want to spend

1049
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:35,880
too much time on this because
it's boring.

1050
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,120
But my company, my company,
Gearsource, was remote before.

1051
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,840
Before it was cool.
You know we we've been remote

1052
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:50,800
for I don't know probably 2015,
sixteen something like that.

1053
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,560
You know sold the building just
completely got rid of all

1054
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,680
offices and everybody worked
remote.

1055
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,920
And so when COVID happened, I
was actually helping people and

1056
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:06,840
companies to become remote and I
found so many companies had like

1057
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:12,000
these on Prem servers and and
software and didn't know how to

1058
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,560
get into like cloud and didn't.
Know how to?

1059
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,120
Yeah, they just didn't have
Google Drive.

1060
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,080
They didn't have any of these
tools.

1061
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,680
So I was helping people.
I was teaching people how to use

1062
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,120
Zoom.
You know when COVID happened and

1063
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,240
you know now it's funny to even
talk about that because everyone

1064
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,840
knows.
But I wanted to mention and you

1065
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:33,560
know it's not an advertisement
or anything.

1066
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,080
They're not a sponsor.
They don't pay me.

1067
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,840
But I use a remote product
called Rome.

1068
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,800
RO dot AM is the is the web
domain.

1069
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,600
You should check it out.
So it's it's basically it

1070
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:50,600
bridges sort of the gap between
remote with like occasional zoom

1071
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,200
calls and an actual in person
office.

1072
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,240
And so on your screen you
actually see an office building.

1073
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,560
It could be multiple floors, you
could have a design floor,

1074
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:05,440
whatever floor, a purchasing
floor and you see all of the

1075
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,120
people, you see who's in their
offices, you see if they've got

1076
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,640
a guest in their office.
You can knock on the door of any

1077
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,480
of the offices and then you've
got conference rooms and you can

1078
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,440
name all of these different
conference rooms.

1079
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:21,000
And conference rooms can have
all kinds of different assets in

1080
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,440
them.
You know, you can have video

1081
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,320
conference rooms, audio only,
You can have whiteboards.

1082
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,840
It saves the whiteboards in the
conference room.

1083
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,720
So if you pop back into
Conference Room 3, whatever you

1084
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,080
were working on in there is up
on the screen.

1085
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,600
It's amazing.
It's been a game.

1086
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,920
That sounds really cool.
It's yeah, I just pulled it.

1087
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,640
I just pulled it up here.
Yeah, I mean, if you need an

1088
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,080
introduction or anything, just
reach out to me and let me know

1089
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,200
and I can connect you directly.
It's a really new company, but

1090
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,360
they're amazing.
They're it's It's been the

1091
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,480
coolest piece of software I've
I've latched into in the past

1092
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,440
few years, so.
Yeah, no, that's that's great.

1093
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:02,160
I mean we, yeah, we back in the
day with with TCC we were you

1094
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,880
know running stuff like
Microsoft Groove.

1095
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,960
It was like one of the first
like remote sync to computer

1096
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,320
bits that they had, you know
that pre dated so much of the

1097
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,160
cloud cloud type products that
we have now.

1098
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,000
So, yeah, when we got to COVID
and we were just like, oh,

1099
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,560
another day in the office, I
mean, because it was just,

1100
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:21,600
that's what it was, yeah.
Same for me.

1101
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:22,720
Same for me.
It didn't.

1102
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,000
From a standpoint of being able
to communicate with our staff

1103
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,120
and being able to do our job,
nothing changed.

1104
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,520
In fact, it got easier, right,
because everyone else was so

1105
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,200
attentive.
You know, everyone else was

1106
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,600
available to jump on zoom calls
with us and stuff.

1107
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:41,960
So yeah, so yeah, so now you've
at that point, I guess.

1108
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:48,880
So when did you sell 2221?
We sold in 22, OK 22.

1109
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,400
So then you just leaned
completely into 3 LR at that

1110
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,040
point.
And So what does 3LR mean?

1111
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:57,640
I There's got to be a meaning
behind.

1112
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,840
Sure.
It's just random letter, random

1113
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,520
number and letters that we we
chose out in there.

1114
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,040
No.
Yeah.

1115
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,560
You're serious there.
I was like, wow, sure.

1116
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:08,960
Why not.
We're like, this sounds good.

1117
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:10,120
It rolls off the tongue.
Yeah.

1118
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:11,840
Yeah.
Yeah.

1119
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,120
We were actually, Matt Lloyd
came up with it.

1120
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,640
I I mentioned that before.
So we were, we were sitting in,

1121
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,840
I forget where we were at AUSITT
or something and we're sitting

1122
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,760
in a bar and he was wanting to
watch Six Nations rugby and

1123
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,400
we're we're having this
conversation.

1124
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:33,320
And anyway he said, so I have
this idea and he's telling me

1125
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:37,560
about it and he says, you know,
do have you read about the third

1126
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,600
lighting receptor in the human
eye?

1127
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,040
And I said no, tell me about
that.

1128
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,320
So he starts telling me about
it.

1129
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,520
And do you know about this?
Do you know, do you know about

1130
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,080
the third light?
OK, OK.

1131
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,080
So there's a, there was a maybe
almost 20 years ago or so, there

1132
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,360
was a, there's a third, a third
lighting receptor that was found

1133
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:59,920
in the human eye.
And basically that receptor is

1134
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:02,440
what allows us to experience
emotion through light.

1135
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:09,120
And so even blind people we find
out have this have this

1136
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:13,560
receptor.
So someone who can't physically

1137
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,680
see can still feel emotion
through different types of of

1138
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,800
light.
But those of us who can't see

1139
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,360
the lighting really effects our
emotion.

1140
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,520
So he was like wouldn't it be
cool to have, you know company

1141
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:31,160
and we called it 3 LR because
we're essentially we're we're

1142
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:35,160
lighting by by motion or
lighting by emotion.

1143
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:36,520
I mean he was coming up with all
these things.

1144
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:42,000
So the idea is that whatever we
do in our industry when we're

1145
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,000
designing, we're not just doing
it because something looks good

1146
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:50,520
because there's we're trying to
evoke emotions and and people

1147
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,920
and make that connection through
light whether they know it or

1148
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,360
realize it or not.
And I and I like to always say

1149
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,840
if you're if you go to see a
show and you have you have this

1150
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:03,680
beautiful scene on stage, seeing
that scene is going to make you

1151
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,840
feel one way or another.
You know it immediately made me

1152
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:13,440
think of watching Jennifer
Tipton do do a session on

1153
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:18,400
various angles of light and
talking about how do you feel,

1154
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,440
how do you feel when we have
direct sidelight.

1155
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,360
How do you feel when it's just
top down?

1156
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,160
What is the feeling if it's
coming up from under the chin,

1157
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,560
under the eyes, what what does
that do?

1158
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:33,760
That's and it's very in a
simplistic way that, you know,

1159
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,520
that really kind of hits true
with what what 3 LR is.

1160
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,640
But but really, it's just
everything that we do should,

1161
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,360
should, cause us to to feel
certain emotion.

1162
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:50,080
You know, I hate to, I hate to
sound negative or anything, but

1163
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,800
has anyone ever, like spoken to
lay persons about this and said,

1164
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,080
you know, how does that make you
feel?

1165
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,160
How does this make you feel?
And they're like, I don't know,

1166
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,360
like, I don't feel like, 'cause,
you know, I remember way back in

1167
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,640
the day when when, like a
nightclub owner would would say,

1168
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,200
but you know, this light's more
expensive with than this light.

1169
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,560
So tell me, how many more beer
will I sell with this light

1170
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,600
versus this light?
And you know, the answer is

1171
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,800
usually none.
More beer, Sir, you know, but.

1172
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,120
None more beer, yeah?
None more beer, Sir.

1173
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:26,760
But you know, like is this just
a bunch of us lighting geeks

1174
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,880
talking about this kind of stuff
and the third receptor and all

1175
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,440
of these things or or is it
really a thing?

1176
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,320
It could be, but I mean,
personally, I believe it's

1177
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,000
really a thing.
Have I ever gone, have I ever

1178
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,680
gone to a bar and had those
conversations?

1179
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:42,800
No.
I mean I know that's just an

1180
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:48,680
example, but I I do feel like it
is something you know and

1181
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,760
obviously studies have been done
on circadian rhythm and you know

1182
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,440
how lighting affects us in a in
a daily environment, you know,

1183
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,520
sunlight at certain times, how
that really effects our psyche.

1184
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,160
You know, there are whole
buildings now being designed

1185
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,600
around.
You know, what do we do inside

1186
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,880
that's emulating what's going on
outside so that our bodies think

1187
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,000
it's a normal thing.
It doesn't affect us in a

1188
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,400
negative.
Way and people buying like

1189
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,600
$100,000 red light beds and
stuff like that.

1190
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:20,200
You know it's lighting is
definitely becoming a thing when

1191
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,800
it comes to health and sciences
and stuff.

1192
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,520
You know, myself I was in the
LED business from a very early

1193
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:32,120
time in that business.
So I followed that whole wave of

1194
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,680
circadian rhythm and and you
know companies that were

1195
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,880
actually creating lighting that
was automatically following, you

1196
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:44,920
know the natural and and so
yeah, you know again, but trying

1197
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,760
to use that as a selling point
on a customer is a tough one

1198
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,880
because you know you're like
this is really going to change

1199
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:54,160
your mood or whatever.
And they're like, I don't know,

1200
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,960
I don't feel any different.
You know, I I I'll give you a

1201
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,359
really interesting little story
about that and it has to do with

1202
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:06,479
Penguins, which I'm not going to
say where.

1203
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:08,479
Yeah, period.
That's all there is.

1204
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,160
Penguins are Penguins are
interesting.

1205
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:15,560
I'm not going to say where, but
maybe five or six years ago was

1206
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:21,840
at a gala in in a large aquarium
and we were we were in town for

1207
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:26,279
some some other project work and
there was this fundraising gala.

1208
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,560
So where we go to this thing?
And we're kind of all wandering

1209
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,200
through the having our sipping
our champagne and you know,

1210
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,279
having hors d'oeuvres.
And oddly enough I think they

1211
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:39,319
serve fish cakes in the
aquarium, which was hilarious.

1212
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,000
So.
So we're we get to the Penguin,

1213
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,960
the Penguin exhibit.
And I'm standing there and I'm

1214
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:52,640
looking at the Penguins and one
of the animal husbandry, you

1215
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:58,400
know, aquarium staff people are
there and and I'm looking at the

1216
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,800
Penguins.
And suddenly the lights on this

1217
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:08,320
side of the of the Penguin area
go and go out and the other

1218
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:12,560
side, these lights come on and
and and there's sort of more of

1219
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:18,360
a blue light, you know, And and
I looked and I look at this,

1220
01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:22,080
this person standing there and
I'm thinking about this.

1221
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,440
And when it happened, it was
almost like when you see in a

1222
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:27,920
film and of course they have to
add the sound effect, like like

1223
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,240
all the contactors are going
off.

1224
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:30,720
That's what it felt like.
Right.

1225
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,520
And I look at her and I said,
does that always happen that

1226
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,720
way?
And she said, yeah, because what

1227
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,960
I noticed was as soon as that
happened, all the Penguins come

1228
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,400
up out of the water.
They crawl up onto their little

1229
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,680
concrete pads or whatever by
their cave.

1230
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,240
They all huddle up into a little
ball and they go to sleep like

1231
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:52,880
that.
I mean they were, it all

1232
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,440
happened like within 30 seconds
the light changed.

1233
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,640
They did it.
It was like a Pavlov's dog type

1234
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,320
of effect.
And I said does that always

1235
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,160
happen that?
And she said, yeah, that's how

1236
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:06,440
they know it's night time now,
you know, So it was day and now

1237
01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:08,840
it's night.
And I said is that how it

1238
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:14,120
happens in nature?
And she looked at me and I was

1239
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,960
like, what do you mean?
And I said, I mean when you go

1240
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:21,680
outside, does the sun just go
off and the the the moon is just

1241
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:26,480
on or you know, stars are up and
she's like she's like, no, but

1242
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:30,360
we're in an aquarium.
So and I'm thinking, OK, there's

1243
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:31,760
got to be better ways to do
this.

1244
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,640
So we started going down this
whole Rd. of like how can we do

1245
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,720
better for the aquariums and
animals and all this.

1246
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,680
And we start working with these
zoo people.

1247
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:41,880
This is 3 alarms.
So we're putting, you know,

1248
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,640
we're putting all this together.
I had an assistant at the time

1249
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:47,760
named named Noah and he really
got into it.

1250
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:55,280
And we were, as we were going
through this, this process, what

1251
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,000
we we come to find out that a
number of aquariums do it this

1252
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,480
way for the Penguins.
And one of them, there were case

1253
01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:06,040
studies where the Penguins were
getting cataracts.

1254
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,440
And the reason they were getting
cataracts is because the light

1255
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:14,040
angle of the light bouncing off
of their their cages or their

1256
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:17,720
environment was incorrect
because they live in a very low

1257
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,560
angle light typically.
But because the light was coming

1258
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,520
like this, it was bouncing up
into their eyes and giving them

1259
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,320
cataracts.
And we said we can, we can come

1260
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,920
up with a solution to change
this in a lighting way that

1261
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,600
tracks the sun, makes it a more
normal thing, puts the lighting

1262
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,760
at an angle that does what it's
supposed to do.

1263
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,120
How much is that going to cost?
We put up all this and we say

1264
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,800
here's what it's going to cost.
They come back to us and they

1265
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:44,040
say, well, it's less expensive
for us every year to just send

1266
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,840
the Penguins over to the
whatever, vet such and such and

1267
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:51,240
have their cataracts removed, Oh
my God, and put them back in

1268
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,080
than it is to to do the
lighting.

1269
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,880
That's terrible.
And isn't that crazy, crazy

1270
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,360
story so I mean.
Yeah, well, I learned a little

1271
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,960
bit of that stuff too.
Again, you know in the LED

1272
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,600
business when being here in
Florida, you know, turtle

1273
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:13,320
lighting is a pretty big thing.
And you know what was happening

1274
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,880
with a lot of the big condo
buildings and hotels and stuff

1275
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:20,560
during mating season, Turtles
think that these deck lights,

1276
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:25,120
patio lights and stuff on the
hotels are the moon.

1277
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,600
And so they start going towards
these lights and they end up

1278
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:32,720
getting run over on the road or
or they lay eggs by the pool or

1279
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:34,960
you know, just bad things
happen.

1280
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:41,520
And so they started forcing them
to use a particular orange.

1281
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,320
I can't remember what the
bandwidth was or anything, but

1282
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,200
so they they had to use these
orange lights on all the pool

1283
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,000
decks and houses and stuff.
And a lot of still a lot of the

1284
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,120
billionaires and stuff who have
houses on the beach, they still

1285
01:13:54,440 --> 01:13:57,840
they pay the fines because the
fine is like $15 a day or

1286
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,360
something and they just pay the
fines and kill the dirtles, you

1287
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:06,920
know, but, but.
Yeah, that's a yeah, yeah we we

1288
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:08,680
went through that.
We did during COVID I mentioned

1289
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:13,080
we designed a Viking ship, so we
did the the Mississippi ship and

1290
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,680
we do ships, we do the ship wide
lighting and control system.

1291
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,440
So not just the venues or things
like that, but ship wide

1292
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:22,360
lighting and control and that
was one of the things we had to

1293
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:25,120
take into account was you know
what's the wildlife situation is

1294
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:30,520
this thing floating up and down
the Mississippi, turtles, bats,

1295
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,440
bats were a big thing.
How does what we do with

1296
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:35,120
lighting affect all of these
animals.

1297
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:40,000
And so it's it's so much more
than I think of like I walk into

1298
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,720
a theater and think OK we have
to make the scene look a certain

1299
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:43,840
way.
We have to get lights in this

1300
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,160
certain place.
That's it.

1301
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:45,760
Right.
This is.

1302
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,120
A whole lot of problems floating
up and down the road.

1303
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,520
You don't want to piss off the
bat people, you know, they're

1304
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:52,960
they're not good people to piss
off.

1305
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,800
Yeah, that's wild.
So you know, I know one of your

1306
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,280
big projects, obviously one of
the biggest projects was the

1307
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,000
Sphere and I know that I think
you warned me.

1308
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:07,640
You can only talk so much about
it, but can you talk about how

1309
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,440
you were involved or or?
Yeah.

1310
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:14,880
I mean, yeah, I would say there
are, there are literally tons

1311
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,200
and tons of different firms
involved with that project.

1312
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,160
Obviously, it's a massive,
massive undertaking.

1313
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,720
We were, we were involved in,
you know what I think is a

1314
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:29,680
probably a very, very small way,
but I mean essentially we we did

1315
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,720
some, we did some white label
design for some other firms.

1316
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:41,760
We we did do specifications for
for the lighting and control

1317
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:45,840
systems in the sphere,
architectural lighting and

1318
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,000
control system.
Yeah, yeah, I should say, yeah.

1319
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,800
And and it was amazing.
It was an amazing project.

1320
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:57,120
I mean, there's so many people
involved that seeing everyone

1321
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:00,440
come together because there's so
many silos of work that are

1322
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:04,040
happening simultaneously, and to
see the whole thing come

1323
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:07,680
together to be what it is, is is
pretty pretty incredible.

1324
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:09,520
Well, you.
You know Brad Nelms, who works

1325
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:13,080
with me at at Gearsource.
He he was telling me one time

1326
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:16,760
about how all the video panels
went together.

1327
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,680
You know, as far as being built
in sections and then taken over

1328
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:26,760
in sections and the exterior LED
panels and it was just wild.

1329
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,480
It's wild.
Just the scope of that project.

1330
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:33,960
It's just completely insane.
It is when it is.

1331
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,800
I love looking at the exterior
up close to, because when you

1332
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,040
see it, you know, on the horizon
it's, you know, it's just this

1333
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,960
amazing, beautiful display,
right?

1334
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,200
But you get up close and to
realize how far apart those

1335
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,960
pixels actually are and that you
can see right through it.

1336
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:50,120
It's just on.
The exterior.

1337
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:53,800
Don't.
I don't remember off the top of

1338
01:16:53,800 --> 01:17:00,680
my head, but it is impressively
distant from one another when

1339
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,040
you're when you're up.
Push like something like that.

1340
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,320
No, no more, more than that.
I think.

1341
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:08,960
Really, I think they're a a foot
or more.

1342
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:11,560
I have to.
Don't don't don't quote me.

1343
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:12,760
On that it's all good.
I'm just.

1344
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:14,480
Curious.
Yeah.

1345
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:15,440
I'm just curious.
Yeah, I.

1346
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:18,040
Have to far apart.
I don't think I've actually been

1347
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,520
to Vegas since it's been open.
So I've, I've seen it multiple

1348
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,760
times in being built, but I
haven't been there cuz I missed

1349
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:31,040
LDI last year and so I haven't
been there in since I guess

1350
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,280
almost two years ago, a year and
a half ago or whatever.

1351
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:39,240
But yeah, I mean, you know, I
think everyone I talk to has a

1352
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,960
different opinion of the sphere.
You know, I've talked to locals

1353
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,080
who hate it.
They think it's an eyesore from

1354
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:47,200
the outside.
I think it's kind of cool from

1355
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:49,080
the outside.
I think from a marketing

1356
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,480
standpoint, it's as big as it
gets.

1357
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,680
You know, you're not going to,
again, going back to racing

1358
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:58,240
during the F1 race, like
watching the, the happy face

1359
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:01,280
guy, you know, with his eyes
following cars as they were

1360
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:03,560
going down the track.
I mean, that was just really

1361
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:09,280
cool, you know, corny, but cool.
Just a lot of really cool things

1362
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:14,040
that I've seen that that do, you
know, that maybe again, as

1363
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,040
locals they go, OK, I get it now
let's move on.

1364
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,160
Right.
You know, from a show

1365
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:23,280
standpoint, I'm just not.
I don't know, like everyone

1366
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,520
talks to me, every single
designer, every friend I know in

1367
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,840
the industry keeps talking to me
saying you gotta see it.

1368
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:30,920
It's incredible, the U2 thing
and I missed it.

1369
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,160
It's over.
And I'm not sad.

1370
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:36,480
I missed it, to be perfectly
honest, cuz a I'm not a fan of

1371
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:40,040
YouTube, so I'd be there looking
at just the technology and to

1372
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:43,360
pay 1200 bucks a ticket or
whatever to go see a whole bunch

1373
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:45,640
of video gear.
You know, I'll wait.

1374
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,800
I'll see it like, you know, when
it's got the planetarium playing

1375
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,760
in there or something and I'll
go, I'll go, wow, this is

1376
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,920
amazing, you know, but.
Right.

1377
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,760
But I I wouldn't want to see a
band like I mentioned to you

1378
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,680
before we started recording.
You know, I I've always, since I

1379
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,520
was a kid, been a huge Led
Zeppelin fan.

1380
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,480
If they were ever to reunite for
one more show and do it in the

1381
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:08,480
sphere, I wouldn't want to see
it.

1382
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,400
I just wouldn't want to see it.
Like to me, you know, you can't

1383
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,880
see the band.
All you can see is all this

1384
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:18,120
other stuff that's going on and
and so yeah, I don't know.

1385
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,120
That's just my opinion, and I'm
sure there's a lot of people

1386
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:21,760
rolling their eyes listening to
this, but it's.

1387
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:25,720
Just no, I think it's, I mean I
think it's certainly impressive

1388
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:27,320
in there.
I I agree with you.

1389
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,000
Like when you when you're up in
there and you're looking down,

1390
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,240
it's like to see the band and
you know where are they?

1391
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:35,640
They're down there.
Baseball, I mean it's it's it's

1392
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:40,880
obviously an immersive
experience and and I think when

1393
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,600
you're going to a show there,
you're probably going for that

1394
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,840
experience just as much if not
more than going to see whatever,

1395
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:48,920
whatever event that you're going
to see.

1396
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,840
And that I think as we were
talking a little bit before, it

1397
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,480
will be interesting to see once
they start having other types of

1398
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:58,920
events in there, you know,
whether it's a fight or some

1399
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,760
other type being a sporting
event or whatever that may be.

1400
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:02,760
Yeah.
You know.

1401
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:06,200
I'm a big fan of Dana White and
the UFC and and he's taking a

1402
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:10,200
big risk by doing this and he's
doing it on Mexican Independence

1403
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:14,480
Day and and so it's a big, big
deal for the UFC, for him and

1404
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:17,840
for the sphere to show that,
hey, you can do a normal thing

1405
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,800
in here but make it, you know, a
spectacle.

1406
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:23,840
I'm still curious as to what
that's going to look like,

1407
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:27,240
'cause you got two guys
fighting, you know, and all this

1408
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,760
stuff going on, on the screens.
Like is it just a big imag?

1409
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,600
Is it you know, I?
Don't know, right.

1410
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,200
Are they just like massively
fighting?

1411
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:36,280
You know?
I don't know.

1412
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:37,440
Like, it's going to be
interesting.

1413
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:38,360
I don't.
Know it's going to be

1414
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:40,800
interesting, you know, like
every time somebody punches, is

1415
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,440
it going to be like Batman and
Robin with pow bang, you know?

1416
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,360
Boom ripples across the whole.
Space.

1417
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or a video game.

1418
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:51,400
Like, make it into a video game,
right?

1419
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,800
Like, you know, we punch
something in a game and and it

1420
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,720
all goes slow motion and you
know, like, who knows what

1421
01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:59,760
they're gonna do?
Like they're having creative

1422
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:02,000
meetings every day, I hear, you
know?

1423
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,840
For that event, so.
It's gonna be interesting, but

1424
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:06,680
yeah, I mean that had to be cool
to be a part of it.

1425
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:08,040
It's a nice thing to put on your
resume.

1426
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,920
Even if you were doing white
label work for another design

1427
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:12,960
firm.
You were there.

1428
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:13,960
You did work.
You.

1429
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:15,240
You.
Spent some.

1430
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,560
Stuff and whatever, right, so.
That's cool, right?

1431
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:20,680
You know another?
Yeah, that was definitely a cool

1432
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,720
project.
Another topic I will I actually

1433
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:24,920
wanted to ask you about.
I got a whole bunch of things

1434
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:27,160
and we're gonna run out of time
at some point today.

1435
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:31,040
But you know, another
conversation that I've been

1436
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:34,440
having with people that's a
little bit controversial and

1437
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:38,560
certainly opinions from way over
here to way over here.

1438
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:45,720
AI specifically relating to
lighting design, systems design,

1439
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:51,080
lighting controls, when and how
it replaces lighting operators.

1440
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:55,680
You know, just all kinds of of
sort of topics around that.

1441
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,960
And you have some designers who
say, yeah, it's disgusting.

1442
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:02,480
Anyone who even talks about it
is crazy, but you know what I

1443
01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:04,640
mean.
It's one of those things like

1444
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:07,400
the Internet and the iPhone and
whatever else.

1445
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,000
It's not getting put back in the
bottle.

1446
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:13,960
So you know, Do you have any
thoughts on that?

1447
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,000
I mean, I I feel like we're
still very much in its infancy

1448
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:21,720
and I don't know, you know, who
knows how far it's going to go.

1449
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:28,840
I mean we have dabbled
personally 3LR with with some

1450
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,920
different AI platforms that are
kind of out there.

1451
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:35,360
Of course everybody knows chat
BT and and then Google has their

1452
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:43,560
Gemini now and and and how how
those roll and we do in our

1453
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:45,680
industry I think is is yet to be
seen.

1454
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,440
But I I know people that are
actively trying to to work on

1455
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:52,240
some of these things.
I mean from from my perspective,

1456
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:57,480
you know we're we're constantly
putting up concepts and pitching

1457
01:22:57,480 --> 01:22:59,680
concepts to clients and those
those types of things.

1458
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:02,480
So from a visual standpoint,
it's been interesting kick some

1459
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:07,400
prompts into an AI knowing what
we want to end up with and

1460
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:12,320
saying, OK, let's develop our
concept visuals like we normally

1461
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:16,560
would and then using the tools
that we would normally use.

1462
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:20,240
And now let's see if we can feed
some prompts into an AI and

1463
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:24,560
tweak those prompts to get to
get AI will come close to what

1464
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:27,960
it is we were trying to do.
So we've kind of dabbled in and

1465
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,480
using it from a conceptual,
conceptual standpoint where, you

1466
01:23:31,480 --> 01:23:34,640
know, we can feed prompts into
an AI, have it generate some

1467
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,520
images and try to create
something similar to what we

1468
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:42,720
have spent oodles of time
putting in in concepts.

1469
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:48,520
And it comes up with some pretty
wild and funky stuff.

1470
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,880
So I, you know, from that
aspect, you know, I feel like

1471
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:56,840
it's a ways off, but I I
understand it's constantly

1472
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:58,960
learning, yeah.
Well, the.

1473
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,560
Big thing is the prompts.
The big thing is the prompts,

1474
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,400
You know, that's like people
don't necessarily, I'm not

1475
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:07,480
saying you don't understand
this, but anyone who I've been

1476
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:11,120
on my own team or friends of
mine who I've been talking to,

1477
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:13,960
they're like, you know, I'm even
just trying to to get it to

1478
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,880
write a blog for me.
And it's stupid and but you know

1479
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:20,360
how you set up the prompt and
how you set up what your role is

1480
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:23,200
or what the A is role is?
You know, you're a lighting

1481
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,760
designer or you're a sound
engineer or you're a whatever,

1482
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,680
you're a theater consultant and
you're looking at it from this

1483
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:31,320
viewpoint as you're designing
it.

1484
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:34,760
But the other thing like where I
think, and sorry to interrupt

1485
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,080
here, but where I think some of
the big change is going to come

1486
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:40,800
is when you get into purpose
built GPTS.

1487
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,280
You know, like when you get like
Dolly right now for images is

1488
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:49,600
useful, but it's it's not
entirely useful for very basic

1489
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:51,320
stuff.
It's really good for for

1490
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:55,360
anything beyond that it's not.
But have you been watching Sora

1491
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,000
at all, like?
For.

1492
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,680
That is getting insane.
That's getting like there was

1493
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:04,320
one with balloons and stuff just
a few days ago that got

1494
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:06,200
launched.
That's just incredible.

1495
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:12,680
And that one, you know, like if
I was in that world, I'd be a

1496
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:16,200
little bit more afraid because
that seems to be coming really

1497
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,040
fast.
Right.

1498
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:19,320
Yeah.
No, I agree.

1499
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:26,600
I I yeah I think I mean my
opinion is we do need to protect

1500
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:32,760
ourselves and at in and I don't
know if that's some kind of you

1501
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,960
know official legislature or
something that there need to be

1502
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:42,160
some rules.
I I think that our industry and

1503
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:46,120
and in general we all need to
follow to make sure that

1504
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:53,920
anything that is being creative
by a creator, a designer or

1505
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,760
consultant, someone like that
that we are protecting

1506
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,880
protecting that person and the
and the work that they do to the

1507
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:06,400
extent where they cannot be
replaced or attempted to be

1508
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:10,040
replaced by by an AII mean
obviously I know there were a

1509
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:14,680
number of strikes in in
Hollywood for for this very

1510
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:19,760
reason you know recently and
what was happening with film you

1511
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:23,000
know we we we sort of look at it
a little more simply What's

1512
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:24,920
that?
That's a slippery slope like to.

1513
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:27,720
It is to say.
That we're going to legislate.

1514
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:31,280
You know, we're going to put up
boundaries, put up walls that

1515
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:36,000
say, you know, you can't create
AI that replaces a human in

1516
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:40,480
lighting design or in whatever,
these these specific roles.

1517
01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:43,560
But you know, believe me,
there's a lot more coders out

1518
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:45,120
there than there are lighting
designers.

1519
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:48,200
And they're being replaced too,
in some sense, you know, or

1520
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:51,360
they're going to have to move
into some very specific, very

1521
01:26:51,480 --> 01:26:55,640
specialized places.
Meanwhile, there's a massive gap

1522
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:59,440
in in AI people, you know,
people who understand and can

1523
01:26:59,440 --> 01:27:02,440
figure out how to use AI in
every company or situation or

1524
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:05,120
whatever.
But yeah, I don't know, like I

1525
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:09,440
as much as I agree with you that
there's a need to preserve the

1526
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:12,120
industry and to preserve jobs
and all of those things.

1527
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:16,560
Historically that hasn't gone
well to stop technology, you

1528
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,600
know, otherwise we'd still have
horses and carriages and.

1529
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:21,200
Things.
Oh, sure, Yeah, yes.

1530
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:24,040
And I'm not suggesting that we
don't use it at all.

1531
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:28,200
I'm just, I'm suggesting that we
find, we find we lay down a set

1532
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:34,000
of guidelines that allow us to
utilize its strengths to help us

1533
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,280
do better what we already know
how to do.

1534
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:38,680
I I don't see any problem with
that.

1535
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:42,040
I mean, to me that it's a tool.
If we treat it as a tool that we

1536
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:44,680
are using to do what we need to
do, that's great.

1537
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:51,760
And I think time's going to tell
is is is what you know.

1538
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,160
All we could do is try to keep
up and see what we can do and

1539
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,120
try to think about new ways to
use it and how that might work

1540
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,600
and.
Yeah, I don't know.

1541
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:05,840
You know, I saw what's his name,
Kurzweil, on on Joe Rogan couple

1542
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:07,520
weeks ago or last week or
something.

1543
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:11,440
You know, I just don't know that
we're going to be able to slow

1544
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:13,720
it down.
You know, And like I think one

1545
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:17,200
thing where you're saying, you
know, to protect or whatever,

1546
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:23,400
like 1 area that you might look
at is that drafts or whatever

1547
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:27,440
require you to say that this was
drafted using AI.

1548
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:32,200
If it was drafted using AI or if
it was designed or programmed

1549
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:36,480
using AI, it has to be mentioned
and then you know, God knows the

1550
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:39,720
unions or somebody will come in
and say if anything has AI on

1551
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:42,280
it, you know, it's gotta be a
higher fee or something, you

1552
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:45,720
know.
But I just don't know that

1553
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:48,480
that's gonna work.
Like, I I don't have great

1554
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:53,240
confidence that that we're gonna
be able to, you know, because

1555
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,640
otherwise we're going to end up
with with, you know,

1556
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,200
programmers.
If we don't allow AI

1557
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,800
programming, for example, we're
going to end up with robot

1558
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,880
programmers that look like
humans but they're robots.

1559
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,880
And I know that sounds insane,
but how far away are we?

1560
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:09,400
You know, we're not, we're not
20 years away.

1561
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:13,720
So it's coming fast.
I mean we've been talking to,

1562
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,040
I've got a device, an Amazon
device sitting right here,

1563
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,000
right.
I mean we've we've been talking

1564
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:21,200
to these devices now for years
and years and you know having

1565
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:23,240
them do things for us and those
have gotten better.

1566
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:27,120
But obviously those have
limitations on what they can do

1567
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,080
or what they should be doing
special things.

1568
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:34,480
But you know I won't lie when I
said it was probably five or six

1569
01:29:34,480 --> 01:29:37,200
years ago as I as I'm talking to
these things in my house

1570
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:40,440
thinking how long is it until we
can just talk to our lighting

1571
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:44,760
desk and does that remove the
programmer from that situation

1572
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:48,960
will will the lighting dust know
what we need what we mean does

1573
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,920
it learn what we say if we say
things in a certain way as a

1574
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:54,560
designer to a programmer you
know such an important thing in

1575
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,440
a show is is developing that
relationship with with your

1576
01:29:57,440 --> 01:29:59,440
programmer.
They they know what you want

1577
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:02,240
when you say a certain thing.
They think like that designer

1578
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:05,840
they have you know what I mean
and and will we get to a point

1579
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:09,200
where AI can do that and is that
a good thing or a bad thing.

1580
01:30:09,200 --> 01:30:12,160
I mean, I personally love the
all human connection with

1581
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,120
anybody of.
Course, of course.

1582
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:17,480
But I mean again, you can't deny
the fact that this is coming.

1583
01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:21,640
And and I'm not saying you are,
but like for example you know me

1584
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:29,200
talking to the desk and saying
OK, act like Eric Wade and

1585
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:34,960
program this show like Eric Wade
would and or Patrick Dearson or

1586
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,440
you know, name your programmer
put him in here.

1587
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:40,120
You know.
You know act.

1588
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:46,000
Act like this person and pretend
that I'm you know Peter Morse or

1589
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:51,040
Ken Billington or whatever and
design A show like I would.

1590
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:54,240
And you know it'll take you
probably a couple hours to build

1591
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:57,600
the prompt properly.
But at the end of the day, like

1592
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:01,680
it's gonna go through piles and
piles and piles of history and

1593
01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:04,760
give you something pretty close
to what you're asking for.

1594
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:07,520
And you know, again, like, I
think one of the challenges

1595
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:09,920
there and one of the things
that's going to protect people

1596
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:17,640
is manufacturers are going to be
very nervous about making AIA

1597
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:23,320
part of their platform to where
it's not human controlled AI.

1598
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:26,800
In other words like where it
would replace the programmer or

1599
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:34,480
operator I think any like if
MIMA or or AVO or Obsidian or

1600
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:36,480
ETC.
Or one of these companies was to

1601
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:42,360
say, hey, we have the first AI
fully self driving console

1602
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:48,200
that's gonna cause some real
problems to their sales you know

1603
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:49,040
in the.
Short term.

1604
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:52,840
Anyways, you know.
That would be great It it will

1605
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:54,400
be interesting.
I think we'll start seeing it

1606
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:56,680
maybe in baby steps.
I mean I you know one of the

1607
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,800
things that I thought of at
first if you're talking to a

1608
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:02,400
desk for instance is you know
we're we're just trying to base

1609
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,640
in some different looks.
So you know maybe I'm able the

1610
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:10,640
the desk understands the the rig
it knows what what I have up

1611
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:13,440
there we're already doing we've
been doing previous forever.

1612
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:16,880
So I mean it's, you know, it
understands the rig and I say to

1613
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,320
it, you know, I want, I want to
create this Moody scene with the

1614
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:22,560
backlight coming from this angle
and blah, blah, blah, blah.

1615
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:24,520
I mean, maybe we don't even have
to give it that much of A

1616
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:25,240
prompt.
Maybe it's.

1617
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:29,600
Similar to what I did on ABC
show or on this show or on that

1618
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:30,480
show.
Take this.

1619
01:32:30,480 --> 01:32:33,480
Look from that show, this look
from that show and this one from

1620
01:32:33,480 --> 01:32:35,280
over here.
But I would think from your

1621
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:39,320
standpoint too, like from a from
a systems design standpoint,

1622
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:42,800
like the ability to some of the
basic functions, you know, give

1623
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:46,920
me, give me wiring schematics
for blah blah blah, or set this

1624
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:48,320
up, you know, I want you to.
Build.

1625
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:53,120
This for me and some of the the
tedious, you know, repeated work

1626
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,800
that you have to do as the
foundation of every job.

1627
01:32:56,160 --> 01:32:59,760
You know, I could see AI taking
care of a lot of that kind of

1628
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:02,800
stuff.
Yeah, specifications.

1629
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:04,880
We write long form
specification.

1630
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:08,160
If I'm writing a spec and it's
100 pages of a spec for a spec

1631
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:12,560
section you know then it's
interesting to go.

1632
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:15,320
And I've tried this with an AII
wanted to see what the AI would

1633
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:17,720
come up with.
I need a specification, you

1634
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:21,840
know, written in CSI.
You know, 2018 format for blah

1635
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:24,400
blah, blah whatever.
The spec section is mechanized

1636
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:28,240
rigging systems, you know, using
these products here.

1637
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,560
Here's what I want you to do.
And it would spit it out and

1638
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,800
it's like certain bits of it.
It was like, I got this certain

1639
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,600
bits.
It was like, I have no idea what

1640
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:38,960
this AI is talking about.
What what is this?

1641
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:40,560
Yeah, sometimes.
It just goes some.

1642
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:42,520
Generic.
What are they doing?

1643
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:45,880
No, I've seen the same thing.
I've seen the same thing.

1644
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:49,520
But you know, and again, I mean,
then you can dial in the prompt

1645
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:51,400
and stuff.
And some of the big changes I

1646
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,520
think are coming just from the
conversational prompting to

1647
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,240
like, you know, now I'll
sometimes I need an agreement

1648
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:01,800
for something, a, a contract
that I would normally call my

1649
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:04,720
lawyer and talk to him and then
I might write it myself or he'd

1650
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:06,360
write it.
I've know way too much about the

1651
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,480
law, unfortunately.
But now I'll just sit and talk

1652
01:34:09,480 --> 01:34:11,760
to my phone and I'll say, yeah,
I'm I'm thinking about doing

1653
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:16,080
this thing and I need a contract
that would be written by a 10

1654
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:21,360
year, you know, lawyer, contract
lawyer who's involved in real

1655
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:23,280
estate and I need it to be blah
blah blah.

1656
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:28,440
And you end up with something
pretty damn good, you know?

1657
01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:30,560
And you might want to have it
checked by your lawyer at the

1658
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,120
end of the day, but it's a lot
cheaper than your lawyer writing

1659
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:34,720
it.
So he'll charge you 4 hours to

1660
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:36,840
write it, or 1/2 hour to read
it.

1661
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:39,440
Perhaps you know.
Or Or he just feeds a great

1662
01:34:39,440 --> 01:34:41,480
prompt into an AI and does it
himself, right?

1663
01:34:41,480 --> 01:34:43,040
That's the.
Why you gotta.

1664
01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:46,560
I mean, lawyers and doctors
should be worried right now

1665
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,200
because the doctors are the
other one, like, you know, with

1666
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:52,760
all the people using Google
doctors already, you know, like

1667
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:55,120
I got a sore throat.
What should I do?

1668
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:59,280
You know, a lot of those types
of things I think already have

1669
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:04,080
displaced doctors, but now with
AII mean, it's incredible.

1670
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:06,440
And it's better because, you
know, your doctor's just

1671
01:35:06,440 --> 01:35:09,120
Googling it on their end.
Like, you know, it hurts when I

1672
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,720
do this, you know, And they're
typing that into the computer,

1673
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:15,240
you know, moving left arm to a
90° angle, blah, blah, blah,

1674
01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:16,800
blah.
And it spits out, well, it's

1675
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:20,360
probably this, right?
So AI does that, but even

1676
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:21,920
better.
And you don't have to pay all

1677
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:24,640
those fees and stuff.
So I think we're going to see a

1678
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:28,560
lot of those changes happening.
Unfortunately, some people will

1679
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:31,400
probably get sick and die
because they're listening to AI

1680
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:34,160
instead of a doctor.
But I think for the most part,

1681
01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:35,600
AI is going to do a pretty good
job.

1682
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:42,360
It's got a pretty large model to
follow, but it's gonna be

1683
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:44,400
interesting like I saw at LDI
this year.

1684
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:47,000
I don't know if were you there.
Yeah.

1685
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:50,920
Somebody told me there was a
control booth.

1686
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:54,480
I think it was an architectural
control booth or no, it was.

1687
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:57,840
I don't remember what it was,
but there was a control booth

1688
01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:02,280
that said AI powered controller
or something like that.

1689
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:05,320
And I talked to a couple of
designers and stuff who went in

1690
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:09,000
there and gotten arguments with
the company, basically saying,

1691
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:10,800
you know, this is trying to
replace me, right?

1692
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:12,320
Like you're trying to get rid of
me.

1693
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:14,880
And oh, no, no, no, we're not.
We're just trying to make it

1694
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:16,880
easier for you.
OK, well, explain to me what

1695
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:19,280
this thing does.
And you know, as they walk

1696
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:22,760
through it, you know, you didn't
really need a lighting operator

1697
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:23,600
anymore.
So.

1698
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:28,680
But I mean, it was pretty basic.
It was like, you know, it was

1699
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:31,360
following music or it was
following different things that

1700
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:32,960
were happening in a show or
something.

1701
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,760
So it wasn't quite the same as
replacing a designer, but it's

1702
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:40,160
such a big topic cuz I think
every industry's talking about

1703
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,520
it right now.
Yeah, for sure.

1704
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:44,840
Yeah.
I don't I I may have seen that.

1705
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:46,920
I can't remember the name of it,
but I've seen ads on social

1706
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:50,680
media for there's some product
that's like you know you no

1707
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:53,520
longer need a lighting designer,
you know, and I think it's it's

1708
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,760
geared towards clubs and and I
think it is.

1709
01:36:56,160 --> 01:36:57,680
Yeah, I think it is.
Yeah.

1710
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:00,480
I don't remember what it was but
I think it's like a you know a

1711
01:37:00,480 --> 01:37:04,240
smaller like wall mount kind of
controller for a a lounge or a

1712
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:08,320
club or something.
I I don't really recall you know

1713
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:09,560
I don't even know where I got
this.

1714
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:12,080
This might have come from your
notes but what is this?

1715
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:15,800
Why did they build it that way
fart snatcher thing.

1716
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:16,560
Tell me what this?
Is.

1717
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,200
Oh my God.
That's two different things.

1718
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:20,800
Two different things.
Yeah.

1719
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:23,600
One, gosh, why did they build it
this way?

1720
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:28,120
So I I've done, I used to do a
number of sessions at various

1721
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:32,400
trade shows.
LDI when did did it, ETCETC

1722
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:37,560
asked me to come do a a keynote
at their Q conference and I did

1723
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:39,960
a a number of different sessions
and one of them was called Why'd

1724
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:45,200
they build it this way?
And that's basically from all of

1725
01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:49,400
my experience kind of in various
sides of the industry and

1726
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:53,120
realizing, you know, when you
walk into a theater, there's

1727
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:56,600
always something or or any
venue, there's always something

1728
01:37:56,600 --> 01:37:58,240
that you go, why'd they build
that this way?

1729
01:37:58,240 --> 01:38:01,520
Why is this like this?
Why what happened, you know?

1730
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:08,480
And and really I, I always found
it super interesting And and I

1731
01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:10,560
think that's one of the things
that really got me more

1732
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:15,840
interested in becoming a theater
consultant because I did wonder

1733
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:17,920
every time there I come across
something.

1734
01:38:18,480 --> 01:38:21,280
And what I learned is there's so
much that can happen from the

1735
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,160
very moment someone says we want
to build a facility or renovate

1736
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:27,360
a facility to to the time that
that first show opens.

1737
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:29,240
And there's so many players
involved.

1738
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,680
You know, we've mentioned
dealers, we've mentioned reps,

1739
01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:36,360
we've mentioned contractors.
You know, you've got

1740
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:39,280
construction managers at risk,
you've got, you have all of

1741
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:43,280
these scenarios where things,
corners can get cut, things can

1742
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,640
happen differently, you've got
designers, you've got

1743
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:48,240
consultants.
I mean it's just one thing after

1744
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:51,520
another.
So I do love that session.

1745
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:52,680
I think I want to bring that
back.

1746
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:56,200
It's probably been five years
since I've done it and it's

1747
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:58,720
always a great time putting a
panel together to have those

1748
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:00,040
discussions and we get a lot of
great.

1749
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:01,480
Questions.
Yeah, yeah.

1750
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:04,240
And those are, those are so
valuable.

1751
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,200
Like, I love people like you and
others who take your time to to

1752
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:11,760
do these things for sometimes
for younger designers, but

1753
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:14,320
sometimes it's just your peers
in the industry who are sitting

1754
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:18,120
there listening to and going,
wow, I never knew that, but I

1755
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:21,720
love that that, you know, our
industry is like that, like a

1756
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,920
bunch of giving people who are
are willing to donate their time

1757
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:28,800
to help other people, you know,
succeed or become better or

1758
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,360
whatever.
Yeah absolutely.

1759
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:36,200
The the forge snatcher thing is
kind of a a a byproduct example

1760
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:39,120
of that.
It's you know I we were doing a

1761
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:44,960
doing a check out in a on a on a
project and and you know the the

1762
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:49,800
electrician can't find a
particular circuit and we don't

1763
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:51,760
know what's happened where
where's the circuit for this.

1764
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:53,760
It's a lighting circuit.
It's coming off the dimmer rack

1765
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:59,840
at that point where where's this
lighting circuit and and the the

1766
01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:06,240
Rep was in the came on site and
was in the in the bathroom and

1767
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:09,680
you know while in the bathroom
starts here in the bathroom fan

1768
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:13,680
going crazy and the bathroom
fan's just like you know making

1769
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:17,400
these noise and comes out and
says I think I know where that

1770
01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:20,160
lighting circuit went.
I think the electrician hooked

1771
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:24,440
it up to the fart snatcher.
So it was hooked up to the

1772
01:40:24,440 --> 01:40:27,200
bathroom fan and sure enough the
the electrician had done that.

1773
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:31,160
I mean that that kind of stuff
happens all the time, but I I

1774
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:34,720
still have fun.
Yeah, what about this?

1775
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,400
What about this nickname, Josh
the Destroyer?

1776
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:40,400
Where'd that one come from?
That's really recent.

1777
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:46,480
So last year at USITTA year ago,
where was that?

1778
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:51,440
Saint Louis?
Saint Louis I'm I'm at that show

1779
01:40:51,440 --> 01:40:58,080
and my my good friend Solvig
bustler from Schnick snack is

1780
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:01,760
there with her stand and I go to
and I'm talking to Solvig and

1781
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:03,800
I'm wearing my big winter coat
because it was freezing.

1782
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:07,400
I said can I do you mind if I
store my coat on your on your on

1783
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:09,800
your booth.
She had this little space around

1784
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:12,600
one side of the table and and it
was kind of a small stand

1785
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:15,680
because it was USITT.
So she had these blocks all set

1786
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:17,520
up of all of their their
lighting and everything.

1787
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,000
So I store my coat over there
and I come back at the end of

1788
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:24,520
the day and I didn't realize it
but she had this like DMX cable

1789
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,800
or something that was kind of
running down along the side

1790
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:29,000
behind there.
And I was wearing this big peak

1791
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:30,520
coat that had these big buttons
on it.

1792
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:35,720
And I go to pick up the my coat
and the button catches the cable

1793
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:38,840
and the cable pulls on the top
box.

1794
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:44,360
And these were like staggered
step boxes, about two by two

1795
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:48,480
boxes and it was a domino effect
Booth, booth.

1796
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:55,160
The whole booth goes over into
the booth behind it and it was

1797
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:58,280
luckily there was no one in that
that booth behind it.

1798
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:02,200
It was just a empty booth, but
it made the loudest noise.

1799
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:06,840
Of course, everyone stops on the
entire show floor and it just

1800
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:09,200
gets quiet.
And I'm standing there watching

1801
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:11,520
this happen in slow motion.
I turn around and I look at

1802
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:12,880
Sulvig and I'm like, did I do
that?

1803
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:16,320
And she's like, yes.
And in her very German accent

1804
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:19,640
said, you know, from now on, I'm
calling you Josh the Destroyer.

1805
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:23,320
And I felt so bad.
But I mean, we got it back up.

1806
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:24,600
I helped her, you know, get back
up.

1807
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:27,000
And run out at her company.
What's her company called?

1808
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:28,480
Schnitzel.
Schnatzel or something?

1809
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,920
Snick Snack Systems, a really,
really great product.

1810
01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:34,840
They really do some great stuff
with control.

1811
01:42:35,440 --> 01:42:39,960
They do a lot of exterior,
custom and bespoke fixtures as

1812
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:43,640
well.
I will promote it because I did

1813
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:46,960
destroy the booth so.
Well, I'll have to check it out.

1814
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,040
It sounds interesting.
Yeah.

1815
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:54,080
So what else?
You sent me a whole bunch of

1816
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:57,960
cool notes that, oh, a prank
call that you made.

1817
01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:01,640
Oh my God, all the little
stories.

1818
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:08,280
Now, my wife was a, my wife was
casting director and we had an

1819
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:10,760
assistant.
Well, actually, I guess it was

1820
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:14,440
more of a administrative person
that was working at front desk.

1821
01:43:14,440 --> 01:43:18,120
And I used to call every week
when this person was working and

1822
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:22,040
pretend I was some celebrity.
And, you know, my wife would be

1823
01:43:22,040 --> 01:43:23,920
in a session, like a casting
session.

1824
01:43:24,160 --> 01:43:27,880
Yeah, to watch actors so that
she can cast them for a show.

1825
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:31,760
And the assistants like knocking
on the door, saying, my God, you

1826
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:36,840
know, Tom Cruise is on the phone
for you or you know something

1827
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:39,320
like and it went on and on and
on and and.

1828
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:42,960
She always took your call, like
thinking it might be.

1829
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:44,880
Tom Cruise this time, Yeah, I
would.

1830
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:46,760
I would like to disguise my
voice and like this.

1831
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:51,120
And yeah, and I mean, but if
sometimes it is obscure stuff

1832
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:53,320
like the guy that played
MacGyver, you know, this is

1833
01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:56,240
Richard Dean Anderson calling
and I was like, you know, all of

1834
01:43:56,240 --> 01:44:00,200
this, It was just a thing that
we did and had fun with so.

1835
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:02,120
Yeah, and you're still married
somehow.

1836
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:05,600
Still married 30 years this
year. 30 years?

1837
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:07,280
Oh, good for you.
That's that's.

1838
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:10,320
She'll hate that I tell this
joke, but I like to say it only

1839
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:12,480
feels like 30 minutes.
And then I pause and I say

1840
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:17,200
underwater like 30.
Months. 30 minutes.

1841
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:19,920
Thirty months. 3030 minutes,
yeah.

1842
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:22,480
We're still having sound.
Buggy problems.

1843
01:44:22,480 --> 01:44:25,080
She's not laughing either.
So fine, yeah, no.

1844
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:27,080
No, it's all good.
It's all good.

1845
01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:29,400
It's it's just every once in a
while a word gets clipped off.

1846
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:34,440
So I couldn't tell if you said
30 minutes or 30 months, but and

1847
01:44:34,440 --> 01:44:37,720
you know, it's funny, I saw this
note about coffee that you were

1848
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:40,520
also in the coffee business.
And I don't know if you saw, but

1849
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:43,000
we've got, it's not really a
sponsorship, but we've got a

1850
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:47,560
partnership with a company
called Coffee Cult and it was

1851
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:50,720
founded by a guy named Jamie
Mardis who's from the industry.

1852
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:54,320
He was a touring guy in the
rock'n'roll industry and worked

1853
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:57,680
for me for a while at one of the
lighting manufacturers.

1854
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:01,320
And we've been friends for years
and years and years, and he

1855
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:05,040
owned his own lighting company
and then also power company.

1856
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:09,760
And during all of this, he was
just a coffee freak.

1857
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:12,800
And so it started as a hobby.
And he's just one of these guys

1858
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:15,040
like me.
Like, I don't start any hobbies

1859
01:45:15,040 --> 01:45:17,440
because of this, because I just
go all in.

1860
01:45:17,440 --> 01:45:19,280
I go deep.
I'm the same way.

1861
01:45:19,440 --> 01:45:22,240
Yeah, so he started.
He bought a small roaster, put

1862
01:45:22,240 --> 01:45:26,560
it in his in his garage and he
just kept perfecting and going

1863
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:29,400
to different parts of the world
looking for beans and he'd try

1864
01:45:29,400 --> 01:45:33,280
different beans and and you
know, so he started making bags

1865
01:45:33,280 --> 01:45:36,120
of coffee and handing them out
to his friends and and they'd be

1866
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:38,800
like, wow, this one's amazing.
You know I need 10 more.

1867
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:43,480
And you know so it really was
very, very grassroots granular

1868
01:45:43,480 --> 01:45:47,800
kind of start of a business.
And then he sold his, his other

1869
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:52,040
company bought a bigger roaster,
bought a few more of them,

1870
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:57,120
bought a a building and he's
been doing very well as a brand

1871
01:45:57,120 --> 01:46:01,040
called Coffee Cults.
So they make so sorry for the

1872
01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:05,120
long story trying to end it.
So they they make a really good

1873
01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:09,280
dark roast called Rd.
Dog and then and but it's really

1874
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:11,400
dark, it's really strong.
And my girlfriend was like, Oh

1875
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:13,120
my God, I can't drink this, it's
too strong.

1876
01:46:13,480 --> 01:46:17,480
So I was mixing at home, I was
mixing their medium beans with

1877
01:46:17,480 --> 01:46:18,800
their Rd.
Dog beans.

1878
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:21,680
And one time I was talking to
Jamie and he said, why do you

1879
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:24,280
always order, you know, medium
and road dog?

1880
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:26,880
And I said, well, because I got
to basically damp it down a

1881
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:28,160
little bit.
It's too strong.

1882
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,600
But I really love the flavor.
And he goes, well, why don't we

1883
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,480
make a blend for you.
And I said he would do that and

1884
01:46:34,480 --> 01:46:36,280
he goes, of course I would.
I wouldn't do it for everybody,

1885
01:46:36,280 --> 01:46:38,080
but I'll do it for you.
And why don't we brand it.

1886
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:40,400
And I said OK, let's call it
Geezer's grind.

1887
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:46,680
And and he said and why don't we
give away all of the proceeds to

1888
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:49,720
a charity in the industry.
Pick one.

1889
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:53,560
And and so I went and talked to
Craig Burrows at Roby and and

1890
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:57,760
said, hey, let's, let's put Roby
backstage on on this charity for

1891
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:00,680
coffee cults.
So now all kinds of our

1892
01:47:00,680 --> 01:47:04,720
listeners and my friends and our
customers and stuff buy this

1893
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:07,600
coffee all the time.
It's really, really good.

1894
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:11,600
And the proceeds go to this
rogue backstage which helps

1895
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:15,360
fallen soldiers in our industry.
Wow.

1896
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:15,960
Yeah.
That's cool.

1897
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:17,520
That's very cool.
That's very cool.

1898
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:18,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

1899
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:19,800
You didn't go that long.
You're serious?

1900
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:22,800
No, I didn't.
But when I lived in the city, I

1901
01:47:22,800 --> 01:47:27,280
was home roasting.
And so we would open our windows

1902
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:30,320
in our apartment and our
landlords lived upstairs from

1903
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:31,400
us.
And they were always coming down

1904
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:33,760
like we can smell it.
Can you give us some of those

1905
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:35,040
fresh.
You know that fresh roast.

1906
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:37,120
That's good.
Yeah.

1907
01:47:37,480 --> 01:47:41,000
Been to Origin, Guatemala,
visited number of farmers and

1908
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:45,320
you know, it's not a documentary
2013.

1909
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:46,240
Yeah.
I mean, it's.

1910
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:49,800
Yeah, yeah, coffee.
Yeah, yeah.

1911
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:54,160
About coffee, coffee growing in
Guatemala, it's really

1912
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:56,840
interesting, but never saw the
light of day.

1913
01:47:57,520 --> 01:48:00,200
There's a lot, there's a lot of
politics that go along with that

1914
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:03,560
in that part of the world.
And I think ultimately we felt

1915
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:07,200
like if we would have shared
some of the things we found,

1916
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:09,800
that would have put some people
into danger.

1917
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:14,440
So we decided not to, not to let
any of it out.

1918
01:48:14,440 --> 01:48:17,240
So it was.
Yeah, I talked to Jamie about

1919
01:48:17,240 --> 01:48:19,600
that, he said.
That's part of the hard part

1920
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:23,400
about a coffee be being a coffee
company is you want to you want

1921
01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:29,440
to do the humanitarian thing and
and and you know get organic

1922
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:33,360
beans that are grown in a very
nice way where you're not taking

1923
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:35,120
advantage of these people and
stuff.

1924
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:38,520
And he said it's hard.
He said it's harder than you

1925
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:40,040
would think.
You know in a lot of these

1926
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:43,760
regions, Sumatra and and some of
the some of the regions where

1927
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:46,320
coffee is is sort of their way
of life.

1928
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:49,640
People are just treated badly.
Right.

1929
01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:51,600
Yeah.
So I don't know if you're

1930
01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:56,560
talking about, but yeah yeah
just just crazy the the small

1931
01:48:56,560 --> 01:49:01,280
amount of people that that are
the ones that own and run so

1932
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:05,360
much of that and everyone else
behold into them and you go

1933
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:07,960
against that.
It can they're bad things can

1934
01:49:07,960 --> 01:49:11,040
happen.
So, and it's like a number of

1935
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:13,320
industries, I'm not just not
just coffee, but it's in very

1936
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:15,320
around the world.
Yeah, of course.

1937
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:18,160
No, I mean, you know, if you
look at the, I don't know if

1938
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:21,000
you've seen any of the
documentary footage on the the

1939
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:24,040
the battery technology and
stuff, cobalt mining in in

1940
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:25,360
Africa.
I mean it's brutal.

1941
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:29,200
It's it's so like it's just
like, Oh my God, little kids in

1942
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:32,200
bare feet digging around through
these mines and it's just

1943
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:34,720
disgusting getting paid.
You know, I forget what it was

1944
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:38,840
$0.20 a day or something, but so
were you thinking of this as a

1945
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:40,640
business?
You were you were intending to

1946
01:49:40,640 --> 01:49:44,920
do it as a business?
I think at one point, yeah.

1947
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:49,200
And then, you know, lighting
kept just demanding my time and

1948
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:51,360
then it was something that never
happened.

1949
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:54,200
I never say never that I
wouldn't go back to it, but I

1950
01:49:54,200 --> 01:49:57,120
still love it and.
I'll connect.

1951
01:49:57,120 --> 01:50:00,000
You and Jamie.
Through an e-mail and and and

1952
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,000
just say, hey, I had this guy
with a similar passion to yours

1953
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:05,960
on and you know he did a
documentary and I'll connect you

1954
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:08,600
guys in an e-mail.
See if see if anything comes

1955
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:09,680
from.
It that's great.

1956
01:50:10,520 --> 01:50:13,640
Yeah, and so now gins too.
Scottish gins.

1957
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:17,400
Yeah, Jen, I think I'm probably
closer to but to putting in a

1958
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:21,760
real still and doing doing some
gin distilling really.

1959
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,720
I think there's actually and and
I love a good gin, although

1960
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:28,960
these days I'm not drinking as
much alcohol as I as I used to.

1961
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:31,840
Yeah.
And I feel like there's a real

1962
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:33,400
place.
I just can't do it.

1963
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:37,320
I feel like there's a real place
in the in the market now for non

1964
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:41,920
alcoholic versions of of these
things and no one that I have

1965
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:45,360
found has made a really truly
great non alcoholic gin that

1966
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:46,600
actually tastes like gin.
Interesting.

1967
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:49,520
So kind of, I think that's going
to.

1968
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:54,640
Be a huge market, Like the whole
non alcoholic cocktail thing is

1969
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:57,400
already coming big.
But I heard, you know, I keep

1970
01:50:57,400 --> 01:51:00,280
reading articles and stuff that
it's just going to be monstrous.

1971
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:03,840
Yeah, yeah.
And Scotland, believe it or not,

1972
01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:05,360
has some of the best gins in the
world.

1973
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:08,760
I mean, it's obviously well
known for for whiskey, but yeah,

1974
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:10,280
some of the they are just
amazing.

1975
01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:11,600
So yeah, when?
I saw these notes.

1976
01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:14,360
Oddish gins.
I was like Scottish gin.

1977
01:51:14,440 --> 01:51:16,160
Like that Just sounds weird to
me.

1978
01:51:16,520 --> 01:51:17,160
You.
Know, Right.

1979
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:21,000
Yeah, yeah.
But now some amazing gins.

1980
01:51:21,120 --> 01:51:24,680
Yeah, for sure.
That's was that a passion that

1981
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:27,600
you picked up since you've been
in Scotland or or you were a

1982
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:28,320
big?
Fan of gin?

1983
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:32,280
Prior to that, maybe the past
10-15 years I really got into

1984
01:51:32,280 --> 01:51:33,560
gin.
I, you know, I didn't used to

1985
01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:35,040
like gin at all.
And I realized that's because

1986
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:36,840
I'd never really tried a good
gin.

1987
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:38,960
And yeah, I don't think I ever
come to think of it.

1988
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:41,720
I might have to, yeah, I might
have to research that.

1989
01:51:41,800 --> 01:51:43,800
I don't really.
Drink like I think the main

1990
01:51:44,160 --> 01:51:47,520
stuff I've become a real.
Wimp when it comes to drinking.

1991
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,920
Like I drink red wine and that's
about it anymore.

1992
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:53,600
An occasional beer, but you
know, usually it's it's a glass

1993
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:55,680
or two of red wine and that's it
for me.

1994
01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:58,400
And I used to be a drinker of
pretty much anything you put in

1995
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:00,720
front of me, so especially at.
LDI Yeah.

1996
01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:03,560
Oh yeah, yeah.
Or or any trade show.

1997
01:52:03,560 --> 01:52:07,800
I just, I just got back from Pro
Light and Sound on Saturday in

1998
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:11,000
Frankfurt, so of course that's
the same situation.

1999
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:14,440
Yeah, but how it was, I heard
it's a lot smaller.

2000
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:19,200
Obviously it is.
I thought it was still a really,

2001
01:52:19,200 --> 01:52:21,200
I thought it was still a really
good show this year.

2002
01:52:21,200 --> 01:52:25,200
I think it's coming back a bit.
You know talking to a number of

2003
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:28,160
people there, I feel like
they're they're going to try

2004
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:33,040
going to ISE in Barcelona next
year as opposed to Frankfurt.

2005
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:35,400
We'll see what happens with
that.

2006
01:52:35,400 --> 01:52:39,200
But yeah, I mean back in the the
old days been going to that show

2007
01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:43,040
for a really long time and you
know used to take over all of

2008
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:45,760
the halls and then you had the
music, let's say happening next

2009
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:49,840
door with all the music, the
music manufacturers and now it's

2010
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:55,840
just all 12 up and down is is
lighting and hall 11 is is

2011
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:58,680
sound.
So it's a much smaller show.

2012
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:02,320
Yeah, yeah, it's too bad.
I mean I used to love going to

2013
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:06,160
that show in Frankfurt and been
doing it for a number of years.

2014
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:10,280
Cuz I actually, before I got
into lighting, I was in music.

2015
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:16,600
You know I I owned a music store
in Canada and so I went to Music

2016
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:21,360
Mesa as a music guy 1st and and
then eventually you know as as

2017
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:26,560
sound lighting, whatever.
But yeah, I mean I I've just

2018
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:29,360
heard from everybody that it was
such a smaller show and if you

2019
01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:32,200
look at the lighting boost like
robe was big elation.

2020
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:35,200
There were a couple two or three
big booths, but then a lot of

2021
01:53:35,200 --> 01:53:36,520
them were much smaller this.
Year.

2022
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:38,760
A lot of them just.
Shut down.

2023
01:53:38,920 --> 01:53:40,520
Yeah.
Yeah.

2024
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:40,920
Yeah.
Yeah.

2025
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,720
So, yeah.
I mean, have you been to ISC

2026
01:53:43,720 --> 01:53:45,800
yet?
I've not been.

2027
01:53:45,800 --> 01:53:48,120
I almost went this year and I
said no, I'm going to stay

2028
01:53:48,120 --> 01:53:49,680
because, you know, you can't go
to every trade show.

2029
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:52,600
But I know I was just like, I'm
going to do Frankfurt and I had

2030
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:54,600
too much going on.
But I said next year I'm

2031
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:58,680
definitely going to go to ISE,
check it out, yeah, and sort of

2032
01:53:58,960 --> 01:54:00,880
get a.
Everyone has told me it's it's

2033
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:06,880
the important show now you know
Pro Light not so much ISE, you

2034
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:10,320
know, it's pretty much taken
over a lot of the big budgets

2035
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:12,680
and stuff like that where Pro
Light used to be.

2036
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:14,480
So it's interesting.
Right.

2037
01:54:15,560 --> 01:54:19,600
Yeah.
So I was made aware that in July

2038
01:54:19,600 --> 01:54:26,000
you're going to be competing in
a charity thing, right?

2039
01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:27,080
What?
What is that?

2040
01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:29,080
Tell me about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2041
01:54:29,080 --> 01:54:31,800
So I do.
I mentioned early on so I'm a a

2042
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:33,880
CrossFit Masters athlete and
Level 1.

2043
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:40,480
What is a CrossFit?
Master that means I'm and that I

2044
01:54:40,480 --> 01:54:43,720
compete at the Masters level I.
Get it?

2045
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:44,240
OK.
Yeah.

2046
01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:47,040
I thought it meant you were
like, you know, the Master

2047
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:49,280
Semolonier, you know?
Or I'm the master.

2048
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:54,280
Yeah, exactly.
No, it's it's a charity event.

2049
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:57,760
This one's in Edinburgh called
Battle for Cancer.

2050
01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:00,920
It is.
It's just that where we have a

2051
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:02,520
team of four of us that we put
together.

2052
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:05,960
So we'll go in for competition
over that weekend and

2053
01:55:07,120 --> 01:55:12,880
essentially the the majority of
it is we have one set of

2054
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:17,680
workouts where we have to do
20,000 reps in 90 minutes

2055
01:55:18,320 --> 01:55:21,560
amongst the four of us and the
idea is that.

2056
01:55:21,560 --> 01:55:25,760
We're 5000 then.
Right, exactly.

2057
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:29,120
We're we're raising, we're
raising money basically at a per

2058
01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:31,960
Rep kind of scenario.
So you know, you can sponsor,

2059
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:35,760
sponsor our team per Rep So if
we get up to that point, that's

2060
01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:38,000
great.
It's tough, tough to do that,

2061
01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:45,560
but yeah, good, good 'cause just
giving money to Cancer Research

2062
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:49,640
and and and charity there and
and bro, yeah.

2063
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:53,080
So we're gonna, and Sarah, I'm
telling you this now, we're

2064
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:56,880
gonna include all the
information for that for your

2065
01:55:56,880 --> 01:55:59,800
charity and and ways that people
can donate and stuff.

2066
01:55:59,800 --> 01:56:02,240
We'll include that with any of
the promo that we're doing for

2067
01:56:02,240 --> 01:56:04,720
this episode to make sure.
That people.

2068
01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:09,680
Can get in touch with with that.
That's really and I really

2069
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:13,680
appreciate that and and if I
could just follow up on that

2070
01:56:13,680 --> 01:56:19,560
something completely different.
I have done been a part of the

2071
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:25,840
ET CS Fred Foster mentorship
program for maybe 12 years now

2072
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:30,160
and have helped helped lead that
program, bring a lot of new

2073
01:56:30,320 --> 01:56:33,880
students and talent into the
industry, pairing them with

2074
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:37,080
mentors in the industry to kind
of help them find their way as

2075
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:39,280
they're getting started.
I know so many of us, like I

2076
01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:41,280
said, we're knocking on doors
and trying to figure out

2077
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:45,160
anything we could do.
This really gives these, these

2078
01:56:45,160 --> 01:56:49,400
exceptional students a leg up on
really getting that start in the

2079
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:53,400
industry that that program is
starting up again for this year.

2080
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:57,960
They're taking applications as
of now and I'll give you the

2081
01:56:57,960 --> 01:57:00,200
link to that if you wouldn't
mind putting it up there.

2082
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:05,080
It's for students to apply for
that program, so absolutely.

2083
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:08,880
Yeah, and if if you know the
link, like is it something that

2084
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:10,880
you can say right now that
people could write down or

2085
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:15,280
anything or is it incredibly
long whereits.com/this dot that

2086
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:18,720
slash this because.
If you can say it, it might.

2087
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:21,440
Be helpful as well?
Or if there's a place they could

2088
01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:23,280
go to find it, like if it's
just, ETC.

2089
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:31,520
Yeah, go to the ETC website.
It is yes etc. etcconnect.com

2090
01:57:32,360 --> 01:57:35,520
and then slash student
mentorship I believe.

2091
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:41,440
Let's double check that yes,
etcconnect.com/studentmentorship.

2092
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:44,880
That's easy enough.
So people go check that out and

2093
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:49,280
so you're taking applications
now for that and then So what,

2094
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:52,280
what does that involve?
Like if someone applies you know

2095
01:57:52,280 --> 01:57:56,040
is it it's it's a full
scholarship or how does it work?

2096
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:00,240
So there's a, there's a a North
American program and then

2097
01:58:00,240 --> 01:58:01,440
there's an international
program.

2098
01:58:01,440 --> 01:58:04,960
So it used to be all together.
But I think we quickly realized

2099
01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:07,400
that in recent years that we're
getting more and more

2100
01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:10,320
international students applying.
So we need to separate them out.

2101
01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:14,160
That makes sense.
It used to be that students were

2102
01:58:14,160 --> 01:58:15,640
pared down.
You might get, you know, a

2103
01:58:15,640 --> 01:58:18,520
hundred 200 applicants.
You know, we all go through

2104
01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:21,280
those applicants and there's a
lot of really great people in

2105
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:22,520
there.
And it's tough to kind of pair

2106
01:58:22,520 --> 01:58:25,720
them down to a core group.
There's never a set number.

2107
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:29,280
Sometimes it's eight, sometimes
it's up to 20, perhaps students.

2108
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:33,120
It just depends on what we all
feel is best.

2109
01:58:34,120 --> 01:58:36,880
And it used to be they would all
go to LDIETC, would take them to

2110
01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:39,520
LDI, we'd put them with mentors
at LDI.

2111
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,160
We'd have an evening where they
could get to know each other,

2112
01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:44,160
ask questions.
So you know, we have these are

2113
01:58:44,160 --> 01:58:50,640
people like Ken Billington and
Don Holder, and I mean, this

2114
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:55,720
just goes on and on and on.
And small names.

2115
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:57,440
Yeah, small, small, small names.
Yeah.

2116
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:00,720
Nobody's.
Yeah.

2117
01:59:00,720 --> 01:59:04,680
And pairing these students with
with those industry veterans.

2118
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:10,120
And so I think what we've
realized since COVID, COVID kind

2119
01:59:10,120 --> 01:59:12,520
of put a stop on like let's
bring the students to LDI, we

2120
01:59:12,520 --> 01:59:15,720
had to rethink that.
So we started doing zoom

2121
01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:18,560
meetings with breakouts and we
would have opportunities for the

2122
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:22,680
students to share portfolios and
ask questions and and really

2123
01:59:22,680 --> 01:59:24,680
have round tables with these
designers.

2124
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:27,400
And then the designers would
say, yeah, I'll take that

2125
01:59:27,400 --> 01:59:31,960
student on as my mentee for it's
not like for the next year or

2126
01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:33,600
six months, that's essentially
for life.

2127
01:59:33,600 --> 01:59:36,320
That's part of the program is
anytime that student needs

2128
01:59:36,320 --> 01:59:38,200
something, they can reach out to
that.

2129
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:41,040
And the idea there is we kind of
cut them loose.

2130
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:43,080
We make those introductions,
make it happen.

2131
01:59:43,400 --> 01:59:45,920
And then it's up to the student
really to go and develop that

2132
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:49,120
relationship with that designer.
But we've had students that, you

2133
01:59:49,120 --> 01:59:52,880
know, have gone on to assist,
become associate designers for

2134
01:59:52,880 --> 01:59:57,480
for numerous folks.
We've had, I mean students that

2135
01:59:57,480 --> 02:00:00,680
are working now all over the
industry, working for companies

2136
02:00:00,680 --> 02:00:03,720
like Disney and doing things
that, you know, they may not

2137
02:00:03,720 --> 02:00:07,160
have had an opportunity to get a
foot in the door to even begin

2138
02:00:07,160 --> 02:00:10,120
to understand how to do that.
So it's it's a really great

2139
02:00:10,120 --> 02:00:13,120
program for these students.
Yeah, Yeah.

2140
02:00:13,240 --> 02:00:16,200
Well, and you know, Fred Foster
was such a great guy and and

2141
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:22,680
cared so much about students and
and theater and so the fact that

2142
02:00:22,680 --> 02:00:24,880
it's in his name makes a huge
amount of sense.

2143
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:26,760
I've known about the program for
a long time.

2144
02:00:27,080 --> 02:00:29,480
But yeah, it's really cool that
you're doing that and that

2145
02:00:29,480 --> 02:00:33,640
you're involved and and that you
know, young people coming up

2146
02:00:33,800 --> 02:00:36,600
into the industry have that
resource available.

2147
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:39,200
It's big.
Yeah.

2148
02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:42,400
Anything else we've missed to
promote or to talk about or

2149
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:45,320
anything?
Oh gosh, no.

2150
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:48,360
I mean, I mean, we've talked
about a lot.

2151
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:48,840
Happy.
Hour.

2152
02:00:49,120 --> 02:00:50,920
I'm trying to keep you all the
way through happy hour so you

2153
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:53,600
can't get drunk in Scotland.
There, you know it's.

2154
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:56,480
It's 4:00 PM here.
It's time to time to go and do

2155
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:57,680
that.
Yeah, there you go.

2156
02:00:57,760 --> 02:00:58,880
That's a good idea.
Yeah.

2157
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:00,960
For me, it's lunchtime.
So.

2158
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:03,240
Well, I I appreciate you very
much.

2159
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:05,120
I appreciate you taking time to
do this.

2160
02:01:05,720 --> 02:01:07,720
It's been a cool chat.
I feel like we could talk for

2161
02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:10,240
another two hours, but.
Oh, absolutely.

2162
02:01:10,480 --> 02:01:12,920
Even just looking at the notes
you sent us, I'm looking at it

2163
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:14,920
going, Oh my God, we missed 20
things.

2164
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:16,800
But yeah, I.
Mean, right.

2165
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:18,280
Yeah.
I'm looking at some stuff here

2166
02:01:18,280 --> 02:01:22,200
going, yeah, another year, if
there's an extra space, we'll

2167
02:01:22,200 --> 02:01:23,600
come back.
I'm happy to come back anytime.

2168
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:24,880
No, absolutely.
I'd love to.

2169
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:27,160
Yeah, I'd love you to.
You got a really interesting

2170
02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:29,760
business.
You know, I like getting past

2171
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:31,960
this first interview too,
because then we can talk about

2172
02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:34,200
the industry and we can talk
about what you're up to now and

2173
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:37,600
all of those things a lot more.
But I do like to get people's

2174
02:01:37,600 --> 02:01:39,520
background.
It's just I never do it again on

2175
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:41,080
the second time.
So we've had.

2176
02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:45,040
Loads.
Of of people on 2/3 four times,

2177
02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:47,640
you know.
So we'd love to have you back on

2178
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:50,600
again and.
Yeah, this is a lot of fun.

2179
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:52,400
Yeah, I've really enjoyed it.
Yeah, cool.

2180
02:01:52,480 --> 02:01:54,520
Good.
Well, and tell Herrick to get

2181
02:01:54,520 --> 02:01:57,000
his ass on the show, too.
Yeah, I will.

2182
02:01:57,400 --> 02:01:58,640
I'll poke him and see what
happens.

2183
02:01:58,760 --> 02:01:59,320
Good.
Promise.

2184
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:00,440
Yeah.
Good luck.

2185
02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:01,760
Yeah.
All right, man.

2186
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:16,280
Thank you
None.