#232 - Thomas Kubik / Tour Manager and FOH Engineer

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Hello and thank you for joining
me again today for our very

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second live promo broadcast on
all sorts of different social

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media platforms and YouTube as
well.

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So thank you for joining me.
Today is Geezers of Gear Episode

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#232.
At least it's the promo for 232,

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which will launch next week on
Thursday, March 28th.

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And today's podcast is brought
to you by a new sponsor,

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Ultimate Support Systems.
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By far the best microphone boom
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This episode is also brought to
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Yes, so episode #232.

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But first back to talking about
Pro lights.

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So this week Pro Lights and
sound is going on in Frankfurt,

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Germany.
Certainly one of the best shows

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in the past.
It's questionable as to whether

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or not it'll be the best show in
the future because it seems to

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be shrinking quickly.
Sadly, because it used to be

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probably the biggest sound
lighting video staging show in

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the world.
It used to be partnered with

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Music Mesa.
It used to be massive 9 or 10

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halls I think, and it just seems
to be shrinking.

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So we'll see what happens to the
future of pro Lights.

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Maybe I'll get somebody on from
that show and they can tell me

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what they're doing, where what
what they're planning, etcetera.

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So if anyone knows anyone who's
involved in the planning and

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organization of pro lights,
please have them contact

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producer at geezersofgear.com
and Sarah will get us set up for

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a chat and we can talk about
what's going on with the show,

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what you're doing to protect the
future of the show, how it's

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going to grow, etcetera.
So at that show, lots and lots

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of new products have been
announced.

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We talked about a few of them
yesterday, but also I was

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reading about the AVO D7 Ava
lights of course recently

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purchased by Roby and that is
ramping up not only their

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product development but their
manufacturing capabilities as

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well.
And I think we're going to see a

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lot of really great things
coming out of AVO.

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You know it's going to take them
some time and effort and energy

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and people and talent and
everything else to catch up to

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MA on the top end of the market.
But I think that middle and

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lower end of the market, even
the top end, but I think the

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middle and lower end, certainly
MA have not expanded to a point

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where you've completely blocked
competitors.

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And that's allowed really great
companies like Obsidian and

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others, Camsys and and certainly
Ava Lights, who you know is kind

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of the originator of the
rock'n'roll lighting desk.

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So we'll see where it goes.
Obviously their D9 is their

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flagship console, their big call
it the grand MA of the Ava line.

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It's been making some noise, but
I would say it hasn't taken over

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the market by any stretch.
We'll see what happens again

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under the Ruby banner.
It's it's much more powerful

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console than it used to be just
from a standpoint of world, you

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know, global distribution,
global strength resources

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etcetera.
But now they introduced the D7

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which I saw in a social media
post somewhere.

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Someone commented that the D7 is
AD nine that you can check as

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baggage.
And so it's a very good point.

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It's basically a a mini me of
the D9 which call it the, you

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know, the MA 3 micro or whatever
similar to that console I guess.

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But I expect to see big things
from that, maybe AD 7, we'll

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give them more of an intro into
the the large scale market, the

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bigger end of the market and
we'll see.

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You know, again, maybe if
someone from AVO, you know, I

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used to talk with Steve Warren
all the time, but I don't know

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anyone else at AVO.
If anyone wants to come on and

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talk about, you know, the road
map, where it's going, how the

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brand has changed, how the
company's changed, feel free

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again.
Reach out to

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producer@geezersofgear.com and
one of my favorite brands.

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I have a bunch, but this is one
of them.

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Ayrton.
And so I am afraid to even

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pronounce the name of this new
product But Kayalami and so it

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looks like a magic dot.
It seems to act a lot like a

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magic dot, but it has a laser
light source in it and it's

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IP65.
They're calling this part of an

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extreme miniaturization line of
product and supposedly it does a

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lot of really cool stuff, lots
of effects packed into a very,

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very small package with a really
bright and intense light source,

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which is a laser.
And so that's exciting.

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You know, seeing Airton
miniaturize a laser sourced

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fixture is, is really exciting.
I think that's a sign of great

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things to come not only from
Airton, but other manufacturers

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as well.
I know a lot of people are

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playing with lasers right now,
and we'll see where that goes.

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And of course, if the US would
ever get our shit together and

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get the laser lighting fixtures
out of the hands of the Food and

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Drug Administration, from a
standpoint of of, you know, it

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just doesn't make any sense.
You know, what do they know

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about laser lighting and its
impact on your eyes and stuff

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like that?
Like otherwise, you know, they'd

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get rid of Sharpies and a lot of
other beam effects that are

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probably much more dangerous
than than some of these lasers.

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So anyways, we'll see where that
goes.

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I know a lot of companies are
certainly lobbying for changes,

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but we'll see where that goes.
Also from Airton is a Nando Wash

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and neat name.
I don't know much about it.

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I I cannot tell you what
differentiates the Nando Wash

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from all of the other LED wash
lights that Airton has come out

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with recently.
And maybe I'll talk to Ayrton

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about that and get more
information.

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But I don't really know what
differentiates this one other

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than it's IP65, but they've got
other IP65 LED wash lights.

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So we'll see.
We'll have to come back to that.

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One looks cool and lots and lots
of IP rated stuff, one that was

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a little confusing.
GLP announced a bunch of

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fixtures that have IP in the
name, but I couldn't see any IP

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in the specs.
So I would assume that IP in the

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name, like there's a there was a
bunch of them and you know

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there's an impression something
or other IP and just a bunch of

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GLP fixtures that have IP in the
name.

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And so I assumed that that's an
IP range.

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You know they're they're
weatherproof, but it didn't list

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that in the specs or at least
from the posts that I was able

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to see.
So moving on to episode #232,

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Thomas, and I'm not sure if he
pronounces it cubic or Kubic,

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but Thomas Kubic, I'm going to
call him.

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And so today's guest was
introduced to me by Sarah, our

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producer, who I don't know if
people know this, but Sarah used

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to tour and that was sort of how
I got introduced to Sarah to

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begin with.
She was touring, I think mostly

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in hospitality and catering, and
Sarah met this gentleman Thomas

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on tour where he was working
with In Flames and it was a Five

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Finger Death Punch and In Flames
tour.

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In Flames is a very heavy metal
band and and you know, so they

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met, hit it off, got to be
friends or whatever.

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And Sarah thought, hey, he'd be
a great guest.

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But it's funny because Sarah
thought he was the manager for

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In Flames because he did so many
different jobs with them, as

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you'll hear in his bio coming up
here in a second and lo and

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behold finds out he's the sound
engineer.

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So Thomas started his career 28
years ago, took the classic

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course from stagehand to behind
the console and touring.

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He has been touring since 1999
with Euro and metal bands

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including In Flames, Nevermore,
Arch, Enemy, Fear Factory, Angra

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Lacuna, Coil, Moon Spell,
Chimera, and Willie Nelson's

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Luck Reunion in Austin.
One of those just doesn't fit

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in, does it?
Thomas has been extremely lucky

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to travel to pretty much every
continent.

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Thomas has been within flames
for 25 years in June as their

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sound engineer and tour manager,
or, in Thomas's words, the

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babysitter.
Thomas loves coffee, wine and

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champagne and generally good
food.

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We'll be finding out a lot more
about Thomas's career, talking

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gear, what he's been up to
recently, and what he has in

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store for this year.
So please welcome Thomas Kubik.

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And for those of you who are
viewing this live, I'll see you

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next week.
In Flames and Five Finger Death

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Punch And I was like kind of
like, Oh my God, like this is

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going to be insane.
And like, you know, like I'd

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never like worked with, you
know, metal like that.

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And then I got there and
everybody was as soft as

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anything.
That's usually how it is they.

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Didn't scare you like you
thought metal people would scare

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you.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
And literally it was like, I

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mean, OK, did you think they?
Like burned they sacrificed

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babies and burned crosses.
And what did you think?

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I don't know.
I just thought it was gonna be

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like, really crazy.
But I remember the very first, I

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think the first couple of days
because of Five Finger, they

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were like Alcoholics Anonymous,
weren't they?

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So it was like.
Some of them, no.

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Yeah, no alcohol was allowed.
And I well, it was your camp.

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That was like, no way, just
because you've got a problem.

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And then that all changed.
So they were drinking, they were

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drinking vodka to sippy cups and
stuff.

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Yeah, seriously.
But anyway, it was great, so

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enjoy the show guys.
Sarah, Sarah, Any other stories

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you'd like to share while we're
recording here?

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No, I don't think so.
I got I now.

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Now you've put me on the spot.
The only thing I always remember

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is coming back into the dressing
room when everyone has finished.

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And Thomas would always have a
bottle of champagne.

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Nothing else.
Always champagne.

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Again, very unmetal.
Seriously.

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Yeah, Very.
Well, there we are.

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It's not wine.
It's champagne.

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Very unmetal.
I mean, unless you're drinking

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it out of the bottle.
I only do that on very few.

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Occasions.
Yeah.

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Only only when you've run out of
glasses.

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Yeah.
All right, Sarah, you're out.

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Bye.
We have to get serious now.

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We can't have you sitting there
yapping at us the whole time.

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So that was an interesting start
to the podcast.

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I hit record while Sarah was
blabbing and I need to do that

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more often because occasionally
she says something brilliant.

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So Thomas, welcome is so do you
pronounce your last name Kubic

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or Kubic?
I would guess Kubic sounds more

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German to me.
That's.

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Yeah, yeah.
Although it's not German, I

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think it's Czech or whatever.
Oh, OK.

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Originally, yeah.
Sounds like there's a story

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there.
But that's that's the right the

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right pronunciation.
So forever more it will be Kubic

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and I think I said it right in
the intro anyway, so that's

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good.
So you know, it's it's nice that

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we had Sarah here to kind of
greet you on because Sarah,

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you're the 1st guest I think
that she brought from her camp

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of people.
That she met on the.

225
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,080
Road and just thought were
really cool people and and so

226
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,240
she was pretty excited to get
you on so.

227
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,160
Fantastic.
So thanks for I did.

228
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,200
I had no idea that she's doing
that now.

229
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,720
Then like, you know, it was like
out of the blue basically so.

230
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,440
Well, on Crete, there's not so
many jobs.

231
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,480
I mean, basically you could
collect plastic off the beaches,

232
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,720
you could make kebabs, or you
could, you know, be a producer

233
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,040
for a podcast in Florida.
You.

234
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,480
Know.
Yeah, yeah, sure.

235
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,400
Why not?
Just not many, not many

236
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,040
opportunities.
And so she tripped over this

237
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,960
one.
No, I was introduced from a

238
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,960
friend.
You probably don't know Gordon,

239
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,600
but I was introduced by Gordon
who works with production Park

240
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:55,000
and and knew Sarah from there.
And yeah, we just, we hit it off

241
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,080
and next thing you know she
became I.

242
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,120
It's funny because I actually
put a a notice on my Facebook or

243
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,840
something saying hey, anybody
want a part time easy gig being

244
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,440
a producer for a podcast And she
was like I do.

245
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Would you even consider me?

246
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,920
Me.
And I said you're hired.

247
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,880
I mean, not only would I
consider you, it's over.

248
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,920
So yeah.
Excellent.

249
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,680
Excellent.
So she says she met you and

250
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,160
we'll just continue down this
story on a tour that was Five

251
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,400
Finger Death Punch and In
Flames.

252
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:33,000
And she mentioned earlier on
this, this recording, that Five

253
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,040
Finger Death Punch were, I
guess, in recovery, right?

254
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,520
So they had, I get parts of it
or parts of them definitely,

255
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,720
definitely were, Yeah.
We didn't really get too much

256
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,600
into the detail of that either,
because usually it's just like,

257
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,320
OK.
Those, whatever.

258
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,800
Those are always interesting
situations though.

259
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:02,480
I remember like Aerosmith early
or in their career, when I think

260
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,160
when they first decided to get
sober and then fell off and then

261
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,880
fell back on and then fell off
again.

262
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,760
But when they first did, they
were really religious about it,

263
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,560
like you couldn't have alcohol
or drugs or anything within

264
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,920
miles of the arena.
No, I mean we usually, I mean

265
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:29,320
being based in Sweden and, you
know, Scandinavian people are,

266
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,600
you know, they like to drink.
So it's been it.

267
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,880
It was very surprising on day
one that all of a sudden, you

268
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,280
know, somebody came up and it's
like, oh, you can't do.

269
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,080
What do you mean we can't?
This is like this is not going

270
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,880
to work, you know, because it's
like that just ruins the.

271
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,800
Movie part of their daily, part
of their daily ritual, right?

272
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,480
Like, it's just what they do.
Exactly.

273
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,160
Nothing bad, you know.
I mean, if it would have been

274
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,360
communicated in the, you know,
in advance or whatever it would

275
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,520
it would be, it would have been
a different story, I guess, But

276
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,319
it would still and no, but at
least like it would have been

277
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,560
prepared somehow that there's
something going on.

278
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,560
You know, I get it because this
was definitely not the first

279
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,880
tour where something like this
was going on.

280
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:26,200
Like I remember back in 2003 or
2004 when we did Oz Fest, I mean

281
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,840
there was a daily a a meeting in
catering for like you know I

282
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,960
don't know how many.
There was like 2-3 hundred

283
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,280
people touring and in, you know,
at I don't know.

284
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,680
Half of before the meeting.
Or lunch service or whatever.

285
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,920
They had this a a meeting in
there.

286
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,000
So it's not a, it's.
It's not an uncommon thing for.

287
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,640
Let's face it, you know,
especially drugs and also of

288
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,120
course alcohol have been a
problem in our industry's past.

289
00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,280
And and you know, so it's it's a
good thing that that people who

290
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,200
needed help have gotten help,
people who needed to stop have

291
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,440
stopped.
You know, like I see that you're

292
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,360
enjoying a glass of wine.
You know, to me, at my age now,

293
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,720
that's pretty much the extent of
my drinking and a heavy night.

294
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,560
I might have 3 glasses of wine,
you know, and then it's.

295
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,400
Like oh, forget.
It I'm going to have a hangover

296
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,800
if I even.
Touch it and drop.

297
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,360
More you know, but it used.
To be it doesn't get any 3

298
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,960
bottles of wine.
No, no.

299
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,880
But it's a good thing.
I mean, it's a good thing.

300
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,440
I mean, if I didn't get
hangovers or headaches or if it

301
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,800
didn't bother me in some way,
I'd probably drink a whole lot

302
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,480
more, you know, because I do
enjoy it.

303
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:38,760
But but it's just, I don't know
the the the sexiness of of

304
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,080
getting, you know, drunk to a
point where you pass out, you

305
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,400
know, on the floor somewhere
where you don't even know where

306
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,640
you are.
That's just not as attractive as

307
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,040
it once was.
Not, no, exactly.

308
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,680
Yeah.
Not necessarily attractive.

309
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,360
So I wonder if you know, because
you're in that metal scene and

310
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,960
do you do any like German bands
like I know that metal in

311
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,160
Germany is, is a big thing
still.

312
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,480
German metal bands have I worked
for German.

313
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,800
Metal.
Well, the only reason I asked.

314
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,840
I'm sure there was.
I have a very good friend who

315
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,880
who I kind of grew up with in
Canada who's a drummer and it

316
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:17,600
was funny.
Because.

317
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,480
Randy Black.
Randy Black.

318
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:20,800
Yeah.
Yeah.

319
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,400
Yeah, of course.
I know, Randy.

320
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,240
Oh, do you?
So you have to tell Randy that

321
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,320
you were on my podcast, 'cause
we go back, you know, literally

322
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,800
40 years, him and I and and you
know, so of course like it.

323
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,000
I don't know if you know this,
but before he played in

324
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,880
Annihilator, he played in
Canada's most popular Rush

325
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,720
tribute band and it was a band
called Click.

326
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:46,960
And I was very.
Good.

327
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,400
I was very good friends with all
of them, but Randy and I were.

328
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:57,080
We got in some trouble together,
let's just say, and I owned at

329
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,000
the time a music store and I did
business with them and they were

330
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,680
a client, but they also became
very good friends and the singer

331
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,680
and keyboard player Keith I'm
very good friends with still

332
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,720
today and.
Ran a tattoo.

333
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,080
Quite often, but yeah, before
Annihilator he was in, he was a

334
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,440
very technical drummer in a
rush.

335
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,040
Tribune Band.
And then all of a sudden he's in

336
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,880
Annihilator playing this, this
crazy metal music, and then he

337
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,600
goes on with, you know, all
these other bands and ends up

338
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:23,240
with.
Primal fear.

339
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,480
And destruction and.
So yeah, yeah, Primal Fear that.

340
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,400
Exactly.
That was the last ones that I

341
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,400
know.
I think where he played.

342
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,640
I met him when he was in an
Annihilator because I I toured

343
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560
with that.
Must have been early 2000s as

344
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,320
well.
I toured with Nevermore and they

345
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,800
did a European Tour together
with Annihilator and I was on

346
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,760
that and that's that's where I
where I met him.

347
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,240
Yeah, and and crazy Jeff Waters
and.

348
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,880
Yeah.
He was an interesting,

349
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,000
interesting tour.
He's.

350
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,840
In He's in Destruction now and
still going strong, you know,

351
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:04,640
touring.
Constantly.

352
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,280
Oh, OK.
All the festivals in the summer

353
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,400
and stuff, of course, But yeah,
so yeah, yeah.

354
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:18,440
It's funny, you know, I gotta
ask because it to me like there

355
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,760
are two really challenging jobs
I think in that type of music

356
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,760
and one is being the drummer and
the other is being the sound

357
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,400
engineer, you know, because it
like to me, it's just this wall

358
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,040
of coming at you and you have to
somehow separate all of those

359
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,880
sounds and sort of create nuance
among mayhem, call it.

360
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,000
Yeah, yeah.
Well it's not, it's not a wall

361
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:53,880
of noise with all the bands
there is good ones and really

362
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,040
good ones and not so good ones
just like everywhere else as

363
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,000
well.
And it's definitely more

364
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:08,880
challenging with like when it's
just a bunch of noise or or the

365
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:15,160
the musicians come with certain
ideas on how it should sound

366
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,560
that work in a rehearsal space
situation but will never work in

367
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:25,480
a in a club or let alone arena
or something like that.

368
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,120
But I mean I was always pretty
lucky.

369
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:34,240
I would say like mostly that the
bands that I work with or worked

370
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:40,880
with either were also where very
young when I started.

371
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,480
So we it wasn't this oh this
older guy is trying to tell us

372
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,000
what to do.
It was always like experimenting

373
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,800
on the same kind of you know,
level.

374
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,360
Yeah, they.
Looked at you as a peer.

375
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,520
Not as a, not as.
Yeah, trying.

376
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,960
To straighten them out.
And then once I was in the

377
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,560
business for like quite some
time and started to work for

378
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,800
other people or whatever, I
already had a lot of experience

379
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:19,120
for my age because I literally
started when I was like 1819,

380
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,520
basically, like with the whole
stagehand situation even earlier

381
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,280
than that.
So yeah, yeah.

382
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,080
So were you a musician or
something?

383
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,720
And then you you just.
I wouldn't call it.

384
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,560
I wouldn't call myself a
musician.

385
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,440
Yeah, I I did play guitar in a
band, but I wouldn't.

386
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,840
You weren't very good.
I wouldn't go as far as as

387
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,560
saying I'm a musician, no, but.
What what What you interested in

388
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,320
in working behind the scenes,
like in becoming a a stagehand

389
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,840
to start and then moving your
way up?

390
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,160
It was.
It was the playing with my band

391
00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:00,760
at the time and it was like
pretty obvious very quickly to

392
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,320
me that you know, obviously you
have to have a little bit of

393
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,600
knowledge of all this so you can
communicate with like locals.

394
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:15,200
And even back then, you know, we
wanted to have a good result for

395
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,240
what we were doing.
And then, you know, that's

396
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,760
that's how I basically got to
know the the people at the local

397
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,040
club and then you know, one
thing led to another and you

398
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,200
know it.
It's very typical.

399
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,640
Yeah.
No, I mean.

400
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,240
It's very typical career path.
I would, I would think, at least

401
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,960
extend it was.
Yeah, it was.

402
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,880
Now it's getting much more where
you actually, you decide really

403
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,600
early on that you want to work
in the arts and you go to school

404
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,680
and you go to some sort of
theater technology classes or

405
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,240
something.
And you're either in lighting or

406
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,440
you're in sound or you're in set
design or you're in costumes or

407
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:01,040
whatever wardrobe.
And so now they're like a lot of

408
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,720
the younger people who I have on
the podcast have taken a much

409
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,080
more planned route into this
industry, whereas.

410
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,560
You know.
You and beyond you.

411
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:17,320
It was much more lucky.
I think, I think I was one of

412
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,440
the last ones or like my
generation so to speak is one of

413
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:29,560
the last ones that like got into
this somehow because at the time

414
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,600
when I started doing this, the
schools really didn't exist to

415
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,560
do anything of this like this.
You know, I mean you could go in

416
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,440
Austria, you could you could go
to like university and and and

417
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,880
you know get this master's
degree.

418
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,960
But it was all very technical as
well.

419
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,480
It was less of a just like try
and error type.

420
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,200
Yeah, you were taking like a.
Where you could be creative or

421
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,200
whatever.
Yeah, exactly.

422
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,960
Acoustical engineering.
Not, not how to be the front of

423
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:03,920
house guy for a metal band,
Exact. 101 Well, that wasn't

424
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,040
really my plan either.
But, you know, that's just how

425
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:07,760
it happened.
Yeah.

426
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,440
Yeah, I want to ask you about
that.

427
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,480
Like, you know, because you seem
to have become typecast, sort

428
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,880
of, you know, like how Jim
Carrey can only do funny movies

429
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,480
when he does a serious movie.
It's ridiculous, you know.

430
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,960
Which is a lie, though I think
he's very good when he does it,

431
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,680
when he does his serious movie
well.

432
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,480
Maybe I chose a bad example, you
know, But when it's somebody who

433
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,480
who's only in scary movies or
only in funny movies or

434
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,120
whatever, it's hard to imagine
them.

435
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,400
Like, do you watch Larry David,
Curb Your Enthusiasm.

436
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,920
It's one of my favorite shows
ever.

437
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,440
Could you imagine him in a
serious role?

438
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:45,680
No.
Absolutely.

439
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,360
Exactly.
You know, so I I have a hard

440
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:54,960
time imagining you working with
Willie Nelson, you know, so, So

441
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,560
to me it's similar, you know,
like you become.

442
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,120
Known.
For a a particular genre or

443
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,320
whatever and.
I think, I think it's mainly

444
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:09,880
this is mainly down to like your
network so to speak.

445
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:15,080
If you don't work for one of the
like big rental companies or or

446
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,240
whatever, you know it's, it's
usually how it goes.

447
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,000
And then for me it's a little
bit special so to speak as well,

448
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,000
because I've been within flames
for so long and now with I

449
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,840
started as just the sound guy,
then I turn it turned into the

450
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,880
sound guy tour manager thing.
Then when it got bigger we got a

451
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:46,000
separate tour manager again,
which I really liked, and then

452
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:52,960
for various reasons he got
basically out very short before

453
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,240
another tour was come, or in
between two tours actually.

454
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:02,360
And then that was I think in
2015 and they asked me again if

455
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:04,520
I could do it.
So we just don't have a stranger

456
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,240
on the bus on the next run.
And I was.

457
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,360
I wasn't really getting into it
again because I wasn't really

458
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:15,720
keen on the job.
But it worked out really well to

459
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,320
everybody's surprise I would
say.

460
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:27,320
And then we just kept doing it.
But you know, originally I was

461
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,600
only gonna, I was gonna stick to
just the sound.

462
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,520
And if I would have done that, I
would have a lot more time to do

463
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,720
other things as well.
And then I would probably try to

464
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,600
get out of the metal a little
bit more.

465
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,120
But since In Flames basically
kept me busy for 25 years now,

466
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,400
yeah, there's very few months or
weeks where I can actually

467
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,280
decide to do something.
Yeah, it's not like.

468
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,640
You can book like.
Tours or something and.

469
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,280
Really busy, yeah.
Which I mean on one hand it's

470
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,440
it's super nice because it's a
very, you know, family type of

471
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,600
environment.
Like I I obviously know all

472
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:16,720
their wives and kids and even
parents and whatnot, which is

473
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,400
really nice.
And a lot of the crew within

474
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,200
flames is has been around for 10
plus years.

475
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,640
So it's like, you know, it's
basically.

476
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,280
Like a group of friends.
Being, being on, being on the

477
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,440
bus, which has its is advantages
but obviously like all families,

478
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,320
there's difficult.
Families have families have good

479
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,800
and bad parts, for sure.
Yeah.

480
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Families have good and bad
parts.

481
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,600
No, that's that's really cool.
And and you know again I'm not,

482
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,640
I'm not saying that it's bad to
get stuck in metal or anything

483
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,280
like that because obviously you
know you've done well, it's done

484
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,800
well for you, they've done well
with you etcetera.

485
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,120
But it's just a, it's an
interesting observation.

486
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,800
And I would guess again going
back to the genre like I would

487
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,000
guess that there are some skills
or whatever that are required

488
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,320
that are different than doing
sound for a pop act or.

489
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,360
I don't know.
I I I I don't really.

490
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,920
I just see, I see looking at the
console and everything's

491
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,040
clipping all the time, like I
just see red lights flashing

492
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,760
everywhere.
That in my mind, right?

493
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,000
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, that's there's

494
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,520
definitely people out there that
where it looks like that, but it

495
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,120
shouldn't look like that.
Vocals, vocals, you know, one

496
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,160
minute a guy's going La, La La
and then it's like.

497
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
But I mean you have that in

498
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:52,760
other in other genres you have
just have different challenges

499
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:59,280
but in the end it's all it's all
the same to me it is it's like I

500
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:06,000
would, I actually think if you
get, if you get hired by

501
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,840
somebody who's completely you're
not a fan of the music, you have

502
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,240
nothing you would not listen to
this at home.

503
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:19,120
I actually think you get go into
this with a completely different

504
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,000
mindset so to speak.
And it's it's to to me this is

505
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:32,960
more objective than you know,
being being a fan of of the band

506
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,560
that's on stage.
So it's like.

507
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:42,120
Are you a fan of the genre?
I used to like I would like

508
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,720
before or at the beginning.
When I got into it, I I I would

509
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,560
listen to that type of not
necessarily like in flames,

510
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,320
which you know they come out of
like a death metal, whatever

511
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,440
that was.
That was never really my my, my

512
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,240
thing.
But like metal in general I

513
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,040
would listen or back in those
days it was like the hardcore

514
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,560
days like Biohazard and all the
you know, these kind of things.

515
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,320
I would listen to that.
But nowadays I'm actually, I

516
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,800
mean, I'm happy if there's no
music.

517
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:22,560
And if there is music, it's
usually not metal.

518
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,920
Yeah, at all, you know, I mean.
It's like jazz or something,

519
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,680
right?
Something nice.

520
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,080
And it's it's like it obviously
the the like when you grow older

521
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,600
I think the you know the taste
gets a little bit broader or or

522
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,920
whatever.
I mean, being being from, being

523
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,320
from Austria, being from
Salzburg, it's always it has the

524
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,320
classical component as well that
you can't get around and that

525
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,680
you hate as a kid and whatnot.
And nowadays I'm actually

526
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,240
enjoying orchestra stuff or
whatever as well.

527
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,840
Yeah, so it's.
At the same time, for me

528
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:08,000
anyways, I've always had a
pretty wide musical taste.

529
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,520
I was kind of a metalhead and
and you'd walk into my music

530
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,320
store and I was listening to
Michael Jackson in the 80s.

531
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,520
You know the bad.
When the bad album came out,

532
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,840
because of the production
quality of it, I was just blown

533
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,280
away.
I was blown away by the

534
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,640
production and some of the
sounds that were coming out of

535
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,120
it.
And you know, so it wasn't I.

536
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,680
I was about to say I I back in
in those early days I used to

537
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,200
listen to a bunch of pop albums
that just for the production.

538
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:38,560
Yeah.
Exactly.

539
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,600
You know, it was the same
reason.

540
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,960
I liked, I liked a lot of the
80s bands when they came out,

541
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:49,480
you know, like like Def Leppard
and and Winger who everyone

542
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,280
hated.
But I loved because they were

543
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,320
just so well produced, you know,
and.

544
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,720
Absolutely, yeah.
Some of those.

545
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,560
Producers, a lot of them were
just so good.

546
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:05,080
Nowadays, I think is completely
like over the top, like sounds

547
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,800
are completely, you know, not.
You can't reproduce half of it

548
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,480
live.
It's just it runs through chains

549
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,679
and chains of like in plugins
and whatnot.

550
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:21,920
It's like, why are you doing
this?

551
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,199
This is not, you know, this is
not necessary, yeah.

552
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,639
But do metal bands?
Do metal bands play to play to

553
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,440
tracks?
Yeah, yeah.

554
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,920
Yeah.
I know very few bands that don't

555
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:42,120
have tracks to be, yeah, at at
least not like, you know the the

556
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,239
occasional keyboard track or or
whatever.

557
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,120
It's, yeah, yeah, some use it
more than others, but.

558
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,560
It's so common now and and you
know, I'm always surprised when

559
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,600
I find out about it because I'm
like really like those guys who

560
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,120
I've always liked so much.
They're playing to tracks and

561
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,960
you know, like you said,
sometimes it's just a keyboard

562
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,960
track, sometimes it's maybe some
background vocals or something.

563
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,560
But yeah, yeah, But when it's
more than that, you know, like

564
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,840
when you hear that, you know, on
Motley Crue's stadium tour,

565
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,760
Nikki Sixx wasn't playing the
bass.

566
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,280
It was a bass track, you know,
and things like that.

567
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,080
Yeah, that that's disturbing.
You know, that's that's a bit

568
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,240
disturbing.
Yeah, but that's also not very

569
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,840
metal specific.
That happens everywhere.

570
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Of course not, yeah.
And I I actually think it

571
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,800
happens in pop way more than it
does 100.

572
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,240
Percent.
Most.

573
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,680
Of them don't sing at all, or or
you.

574
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,400
Know most of the.
Instruments aren't even real,

575
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,800
you know.
Yeah.

576
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,040
Yeah, yeah, it's it's, it's an
interesting thing, but you know,

577
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,000
back to the this genre, which
I'm obviously intrigued with,

578
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,400
'cause I don't know that much
about it.

579
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,320
And by the way, like, so you you
said as we grow older, we change

580
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,280
our taste and stuff.
So one of the one of the

581
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,560
earliest metal concerts I went
to was Judas Priest, probably in

582
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,280
like, I don't know, 1980 or
something.

583
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:16,400
And and I I'm listening like
crazy to the new Judas Priest

584
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,320
album right now.
It's so good.

585
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,200
You know, Rob Halford is 74.
Years old.

586
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,440
Or something.
And his voice is incredible on

587
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,240
this album, like he's hitting
the notes that he hit when he

588
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:30,920
was in his 20s.
It's crazy and but anyways back

589
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,800
to the genre.
So are there any gear like

590
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,360
things that are that are
uncommon maybe in other types of

591
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:42,640
music?
Like, do you have to use

592
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,600
different equipment for this
type of music or or is it pretty

593
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,920
much all the same?
No, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say,

594
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,120
I wouldn't say different
equipment at all.

595
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,400
I mean a lot of people nowadays
go to you know the digital amp

596
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:10,200
thing like be it KEMPO or XFX or
or neural DSP whatever whatever

597
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,640
it is that you know that's your
preference.

598
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:22,320
And I don't necessarily agree
with that trend because it

599
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,400
definitely it's not the same
yet.

600
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,120
You know I don't even, I'm not
sure it will even get to the

601
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:34,880
point where it's the same that
to a real like to BAM maybe

602
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,120
maybe in you know for the next
generation but not in not in my

603
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,560
lifetime.
I don't see that on the horizon

604
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,560
anywhere.
So I mean, yeah, I don't, I

605
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,200
don't think it's, but I mean
what we do different or we

606
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:56,320
started doing different than now
a lot of people are doing it is

607
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:03,920
that we use isolation caps for
guitars and bass which yeah, for

608
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,640
a long, like a long, long time.
I know that like arena bands or

609
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,440
bigger bands have done that for
a very long time as well like

610
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,240
Metallica.
I think we're ones and one of

611
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:17,400
the first ones that that did
that.

612
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:25,720
But I don't remember really any
of the smaller bands or like the

613
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:31,080
bands that that were in flames
of size that did that when we

614
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,880
started doing it.
And it was basically what that

615
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,560
is for people who don't
understand.

616
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,680
Yeah, it's very.
It's a very simple concept

617
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:44,000
actually.
It's basically just it used to

618
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,000
be just a case where you put the
guitar speaker in and then you

619
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,840
might get in the case, you close
the case so you can lower your

620
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:57,200
stage volume and therefore you
have more control over the

621
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,080
actual guitar tone and the like
how loud your stage is.

622
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,280
And we started using it shortly
after the guys decided that they

623
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,960
want to use in ears like in ear
monitors and then that made the

624
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,280
most sense to do that.
And the ones that we are using

625
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:25,280
now is like a purpose built that
is basically speaker cabinet and

626
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:31,600
case in one unit.
It's just it just has like 3

627
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,880
connectors in the back, two for
the mic, one for the for the

628
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,560
actual speaker and then that's
it.

629
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,800
It's got one like 12 inch
speaker in it and and that's it.

630
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:50,240
And I mean that drastically
improves the quality especially

631
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:54,520
on on smaller shows for instance
because the stage gets so much

632
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,080
more quiet that you can actually
on front of house, you know

633
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,600
actually mix.
And on bigger shows it's much

634
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,680
better also because like if you
listen, I recorded all the shows

635
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:11,440
on on multitrack and if you
listen to the guitar that's it.

636
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,600
There's only guitar.
There's no bleed from the from

637
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,280
the drums.
There's nothing else.

638
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:17,920
There's no.
Are you also?

639
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,040
Isolating drums.
Though no, but I mean the only

640
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,160
the only noise that's on stage
literally is the acoustic drum

641
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,600
kit and a little bit of side
field which also has mainly

642
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,040
drums or whatever.
There's nothing else that's

643
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,360
going on.
On stage we have, we still have

644
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,360
guitar caps, so you know when
they need to do like some

645
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,800
feedbacks or whatever, they can
do that, but they're obviously

646
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,840
on a way lower level than what
you would have them.

647
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:54,520
If this would be your main
source for the mic, yeah, So

648
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,800
well, I really think that makes
a big, big difference, and a lot

649
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,400
of other bands started to adapt
that after.

650
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,200
Well, well you said something
that I think is key which it

651
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,320
just gives you more control, you
know because if everybody's just

652
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,240
you know got everything turned
up to 10 and and it's just a a

653
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,960
bunch of noise on stage.
You know, obviously it makes

654
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,880
your job more difficult,
especially for the first five or

655
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,680
six rows, you know, in front of
the stage where.

656
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,640
They're.
Hearing, they're hearing sound

657
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,560
off the stage, not out of your.
But it's like for me this is

658
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,440
also, it's always been like
that.

659
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:39,760
I'm a big fan of DB limits.
I always was as long as they're

660
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,640
implemented in a in a like
sensible way.

661
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,800
Because like when I started, it
was already like Switzerland had

662
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,560
them.
As long as I can think ever

663
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,800
since I've been to Switzerland
from.

664
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,800
How many times?
What's their limit?

665
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:07,440
It's believe it's 90 average
over a certain period of time.

666
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:13,080
From the from the toilets.
Unless you provide, unless you

667
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:19,240
provide free hearing protection,
then you can go to 99 or 100.

668
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:25,320
And nowadays, I don't know the
exact law, but it seems to be

669
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,440
like pretty much like 100 over
like 15 minutes or half an hour,

670
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,480
which is more than enough.
But it's quite low compared to

671
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120
what I'm what I'm used to when I
grew up, you know, with the

672
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,840
walls of speakers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

673
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,360
Yeah.
I mean that whole technology

674
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:51,120
just completely that changed so
much in the last 1520 years,

675
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,640
well.
Especially because of line array

676
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,080
and stuff right?
Like it's a much more scientific

677
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,480
approach.
Because of line array obviously.

678
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:06,080
Also it got, it got way more
precise even once the line the

679
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,600
rays were already there.
Now the new thing basically is

680
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:18,160
like beam steering or like
cardioid systems that only

681
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:23,640
really throw in One Direction
where again you just don't have

682
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,480
any spill back on stage.
You don't have that much like

683
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,080
secondary noise so to speak, and
it get just gets everything out.

684
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,880
It cleans it up really.
Nice.

685
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,320
Yeah, Much familiar with that
technology.

686
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,200
So that so speakers are just
very narrow.

687
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,640
They well they started, they
started this in the in the in

688
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:55,240
the with a sub speakers because
obviously the lower the

689
00:43:55,240 --> 00:44:04,080
frequency gets the more of a
circle the dispersion is so to

690
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,640
speak.
And so cardioid sub arrays were

691
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:15,320
like the first step in that
development basically.

692
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:23,600
And then this German company DMB
actually released a system that

693
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,480
would do the same thing, but not
only for the sub frequencies, it

694
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,960
does it over basically the whole
bandwidth, you know.

695
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:39,480
So all this like muddy
everything below 3400, whatever.

696
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:43,640
Everything that you know just
basically makes it difficult to

697
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:50,760
to or makes it more difficult in
in arenas and and and stuff is

698
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,480
basically gone or improves
drastically.

699
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:59,640
And that combined with a very
precise software to to calculate

700
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:06,480
where you need your speakers to
hit just makes an overall

701
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,680
difference.
You know, it's this little, this

702
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,800
little pieces.
The isolation cabs is just one

703
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,680
of them.
And then this speaker technology

704
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,240
and this and this and this and
this.

705
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,040
It just makes it completely
different.

706
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:27,160
Like if you want it to be, and
if the artist or the musicians

707
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,520
actually want this to be the
best it can be.

708
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,920
There's a lot you can.
There's a lot of technology that

709
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,400
you can utilize these days.
It hasn't been there like 5-10

710
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,880
years ago.
Yeah, it's crazy.

711
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,560
It's very, very interesting
because like I said earlier,

712
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,520
nuance to mayhem or whatever.
But it's really, it's adding

713
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,160
precision, you know, to mayhem.
So you know what?

714
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,840
What's being played might be
very confusing and noisy and

715
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,240
everything else, but then you
start to really kind of tighten

716
00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:00,840
everything up first of all with
isolating sounds on stage.

717
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,360
But then you know the system
itself being able to do even

718
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,840
more of that in a much more.
Direct approach and I mean it

719
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,480
was for for me this was very
funny because once we switched

720
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:18,000
to this new PA technology on one
tour, it was actually the tour

721
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:25,400
in 2017 with Sarah.
This is, this is we had, we had

722
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,040
a pre release system out.
It wasn't really a beta test,

723
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,040
but it was almost finished.
But it wasn't released yet.

724
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:42,640
And yes exactly it's called GSL
and they actually gave us an

725
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,840
arena system.
They sent one of their guys out

726
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:51,640
with it to help out with like
our systems engineer to like set

727
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,560
it up and and and straighten it
out.

728
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,000
And it was basically for them,
it was like a field test like we

729
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,240
know it's, you know the products
ready, but how does it do,

730
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,600
what's the the little things
that we still need to tweak a

731
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:10,440
little bit, you know being being
like how quick you can rig it or

732
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,480
like small adjustments in the
software that that controls it

733
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,720
and stuff like that.
And on those first shows I

734
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:27,080
remember that like for me it was
like Oh my God, I actually have

735
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:32,480
to clean up my mix.
I can hear things now that I

736
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:38,000
couldn't hear systems.
It's like it actually in the end

737
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,600
more work for me because it was
just like, OK, what is this, you

738
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,040
know, and I had like doubts in
the beginning.

739
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,280
It's like what this is what you
have been doing for the last 15

740
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:56,760
years, but it also made it
better and and you know, make

741
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:02,680
the mix better and it's funny
now because obviously you don't

742
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,760
have that same exact system
everywhere you go.

743
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,880
So now, even though they thank
God, are quite common nowadays,

744
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,680
especially on outdoor festivals
and stuff, but you sometimes go

745
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,640
back to like a not so advanced
system or an older system.

746
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:24,120
And even those mixes are
sounding better now because what

747
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,680
you're sending out of the
console is already way more

748
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,240
precise because you can hear it
on this, you know, it's crazy.

749
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,560
It's absolutely great.
Like for me this was a very,

750
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:38,280
very interesting process over
this tour and like the tours

751
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:43,680
after because I I like realized
OK, there's a lot of I can do a

752
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:50,000
lot more work here and in this
part and on that part where I

753
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,680
would have said a couple of
months earlier, no, this, you

754
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,600
know this is going to be as good
as it gets.

755
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,960
There's no there's nothing more
to gain here.

756
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,800
So it's it's, I like it because
it it, it also means that it

757
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,760
doesn't make the job boring,
boring, so to speak, you know,

758
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,200
because you're always, you're
always aiming and trying to to

759
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,040
find something that to make it a
little bit better.

760
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,000
So you started early enough to
where you obviously started on

761
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,640
analog consoles.
And So what was that transition

762
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,520
like for you and when did it
happen?

763
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,560
I know the exact time when it
happened.

764
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:40,440
I refused for a very long time
to to change because every

765
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:46,520
single time I had a digital
console in my hands before, that

766
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,400
was just like, what?
What is this?

767
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,440
You know, whatever this does
not.

768
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,400
It feels like a toy.
It sounds like a toy.

769
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:03,840
This is not what I want.
And then we were on gigantour

770
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,000
with Megadeth in the US.
And Dream Theater, I saw that.

771
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,720
No, it wasn't Dream Theater.
Oh oh.

772
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:13,880
I didn't know they did more than
one Gigantour.

773
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,000
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This one was Lamb of God and

774
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,000
Megadeth.
Exactly.

775
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:19,880
We were on the One with Lamb of
God.

776
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,120
This is the same 1 Dream Theater
was on it.

777
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:24,960
No.
Huh.

778
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,600
We no, but we didn't tour the we
didn't tour with during theater.

779
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:30,760
Huh.
Interesting.

780
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,640
Maybe they just did whatever or
something.

781
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:39,600
Yeah it it it was it was it must
have been early ish 2000s as

782
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,480
well 2000, five 2006.
Something like that in Orlando,

783
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,400
at the at the Hard Rock Live in
Orlando.

784
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,400
I'm a big dream theatre fan, you
know.

785
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,840
Yeah, Prog rock.
I don't know.

786
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,320
I don't think it was dream
theatre.

787
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,800
Yeah, I would.
I would remember Dream Theatre.

788
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,840
Well, I only went for Dream
Theatre.

789
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,360
Lamb of God.
And if it.

790
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,840
Was your band And some of the
other ones were like, Oh my God,

791
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,000
what am I listening to?
Really.

792
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:08,080
It was definitely High On Fire,
I think.

793
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,400
I don't remember.
It doesn't it doesn't matter at

794
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,880
that time though, the guy who
did front of house for Megadeth

795
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:29,320
was a friend of mine and and he
actually called me or emailed me

796
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,000
before the tour and he basically
was like, OK, we have two

797
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,920
choices.
It's like either I can take

798
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,160
Midas heritage for me, which is
an analog console and all the

799
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,920
supports are going to get like a
cheap Yamaha, whatever the

800
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:50,600
Yamaha of the day was back then.
Or we can all agree on taking a

801
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:57,680
Digi design D show console and
share that between all of us.

802
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:02,000
And I'm like, well, you know, if
you ask me like that, then I

803
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,520
would prefer the Digi design
because I know that at least

804
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:11,520
like one of the most decent
digital consoles at that time.

805
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,040
And then three weeks later or
whatever, the tour started and

806
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,560
we had like a production day
somewhere in the US And that was

807
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:26,480
the first time I I I started
mixing on the digital console,

808
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:29,240
like on the tour, I think
straight.

809
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,800
Into the deep.
End and then I mean that was

810
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,160
it's it's really funny because
we're still using like digit

811
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:43,360
design became Avid and you know
Avid had like a bunch of

812
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:48,640
different consoles and now the
latest they released the S6 or

813
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:54,400
SXL platform.
We switched to that, I don't

814
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,600
know five years ago or something
like that.

815
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,760
I don't.
Know so you've always stayed

816
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,760
with the same.
Same brand, yeah.

817
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,880
Yeah, because it's like all the
integration with all the like

818
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:11,040
we're we're we're using very
heavy snapshots for instance,

819
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,680
which is a little bit uncommon
for like a metal band or

820
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,000
whatever, you know.
And the integration with Pro

821
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,680
Tools and the recording and
virtual sound check where you

822
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:27,680
can just play back stuff through
the PA, be it for yourself to

823
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,400
work on something or if a
musician wants to hear something

824
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,000
or you know it's all very, very
easy.

825
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:40,240
And in the beginning Avid or
Digit design.

826
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:44,880
Back then we're really the only
guys where this was doable.

827
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:50,560
Now you can do it with a lot
more consoles, obviously, and

828
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:55,840
also with a lot cheaper
consoles, you know, technology

829
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,960
here as well.
It evolved like crazy basically,

830
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,000
you know?
But for me this was also this

831
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:07,320
was one of like the key moments.
Because like when I was still

832
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,080
with analogue gear, I remember I
would like write myself cue

833
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:16,160
cards for each song which is
basically like an analogue form

834
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,760
of of snapshots where you know,
I would note down like delay

835
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,480
times or in reverb types and and
shit like that.

836
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:32,280
And like back back then I would,
I would MIT song, I would

837
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:37,240
already start thinking about
what I need to do between the

838
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:41,120
two songs to make you know to
set up for the next one.

839
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,840
And it takes away a lot of
concentration, obviously.

840
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,760
And it's one of those things
that you don't really realize.

841
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,160
But once you have a tool like
this snapshot thing where you

842
00:54:54,160 --> 00:55:01,400
can store stuff, you finally
realize it's like, oh, actually,

843
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,960
you know, now I don't need to
think about this anymore.

844
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:09,000
And it frees up my my, my head
and my time to actually do what

845
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,320
the band is paying me for, which
is mix a show.

846
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:14,760
So on that tour, like halfway
through it was a pretty long

847
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,440
tour.
It was almost two months I

848
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,960
think.
And halfway through I started

849
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,640
getting into snapshots and stuff
and try out this technology.

850
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,800
And then I actually immediately
started to like it because I saw

851
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,720
the potential.
It wasn't necessarily there

852
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:38,440
sound wise yet, but now I think
it's very, it's very close.

853
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,640
Like there's not.
Still a warmth.

854
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,720
That you get from analog
consoles.

855
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:45,720
That's better or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, it is.

856
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:51,400
But I mean, I would still take
out an analog console if I like.

857
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,240
If we would only do arenas and
money was no object.

858
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:59,400
And it's like, if I could
choose, I would maybe try it

859
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,680
out.
It would always be with like a

860
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:07,640
digital sidecar does all the
automation stuff because at this

861
00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:12,560
point there's so much automation
going on during the show that is

862
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:17,080
also these little little details
that would that I would just

863
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,320
miss because you you know you
can't physically do it on an

864
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,800
analog console like unless you
have like 3 people pushing

865
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,360
buttons or whatever.
So this is for me like an

866
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,880
overall package thing where I
think, OK, the advantages of the

867
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,880
digital world definitely
outweigh taking an analog

868
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:46,280
console, whereas coming back to
guitar amps that's not there

869
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,760
yet.
Because you know, especially

870
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,160
when we do like headline tours
or it's not fly shows where it

871
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,680
matters, if you take like a
Marshall head or a tiny little

872
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,440
digital box, it makes no
difference to me.

873
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,360
And then I would always choose
the the analog amp, but I mean

874
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,480
we just did Australia and Asia
for instance where we had to fly

875
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:15,560
almost every second day and we
take neural DSP gear there as

876
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:20,160
well because obviously the
advantage of being moving around

877
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:26,280
so much outweighs carrying in
and and to bamp that possibly

878
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,120
gets broken by the airline.
So, you know, you have to

879
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:35,280
battle, so to speak, but.
So you think you think guitar

880
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,760
amplifiers are getting close to
a point where nobody will be

881
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,480
using tube amplifiers anymore
and all the modeling amplifiers

882
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,400
and stuff are are going to take
over, No.

883
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,120
I think it's like vinyl it there
will be a big, I don't think it

884
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:55,240
will go away completely just
like vinyl never did, you know

885
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,400
there was always this freaks
that somewhere that would that

886
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,600
would keep building their record
collection.

887
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,760
You know, it's funny because I,
I, I have a house up in Canada

888
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,920
in the mountains and one of my
plans for the because I spend

889
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,720
the the warm months there from
May until September, October or

890
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,520
whatever.
And one of my plans this year is

891
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,400
to buy a turntable and a bunch
of vinyl to start collecting

892
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,760
back.
I got rid of all my vinyl, I

893
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,800
don't know, 30 years ago or
something, and now I'm going to

894
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,080
start collecting it again at
like 20 times the price or

895
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,440
whatever, right?
Probably, yeah.

896
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,280
Yeah.
More than no.

897
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,440
I don't think this will go away.
Yeah, at all.

898
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:42,360
So aside from like you've had
two major shifts in technology I

899
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:47,920
think in audio obviously line
array and digital consoles.

900
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,400
Have there been, has there been
like mic technology or other

901
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,920
things power, obviously digital
power has has changed some

902
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:56,960
things but.
Yeah.

903
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,200
Has there been any like
revolutionary changes?

904
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,360
That that's the two.
That's the two major, major,

905
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,840
it's pretty big things like
digital consoles definitely

906
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,080
being like I would say that's
even bigger than the line array

907
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:20,960
technology and then yeah, line
array probably the the second

908
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,800
one, but I mean other than that
it's very.

909
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,720
Well, digital consoles is such a
big topic too, because you know

910
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,560
Dante and all of the plugins and
that whole universe.

911
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,240
It's not.
Just the the control surface

912
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,520
itself.
It's all of the other stuff that

913
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,040
came with it, right?
I mean, yeah.

914
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,600
And and that actually I would,
if you would separate that a

915
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:48,960
little bit that that that part
from the console like the DSP

916
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:54,800
power processing power is maybe
the third one because that's

917
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:59,600
obviously not only a thing in,
in consoles, but it's also in in

918
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:05,000
like reverb units or even the
guitar processing stuff,

919
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,760
modeling amps, blah, blah.
But that would have not been

920
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,120
possible.
Without having this ginormous

921
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:16,480
amount of processing power
basically in your hand.

922
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:23,880
I mean you also experienced the
birth of of cell phones and and

923
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:29,960
how this looked in the beginning
and like basically first laptops

924
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:34,720
and how how laptops look now of
course like I was also in the

925
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,000
middle of all this when I when I
grew up.

926
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,280
And this is like you know what
used to be a suitcase sized

927
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:47,600
thing is now basically in your
in your hand and even even more

928
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,280
than that.
So it's.

929
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,720
Well, they always compare.
They always compare, like the

930
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:56,840
iPhone, the power of an iPhone
to like the original space

931
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,440
shuttle.
This has more computing power

932
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,720
than the original space.
Shuttle right, Which is?

933
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:02,720
Incredible.
You know.

934
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,840
So what was I gonna ask you?
Oh, so you use D and BI guess

935
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,120
pretty much exclusively if you
can if.

936
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:16,160
If I can, yeah.
You know, so I I had a very, I

937
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,760
have a very good relationship
with them because that's

938
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:22,720
basically what I grew up on.
Of course, like on on on their

939
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,720
PA's like from 20 years ago that
the club I started to work in

940
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:33,240
here in Salzburg, I just had a
DMB install and that's when I

941
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,440
had my first contact.
So I know a lot of people there

942
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:42,880
and yeah, yeah, it's I always
like it to yeah, semi close

943
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:49,400
proximity and it's like they
they like me for some reason and

944
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,840
they always, I can give feedback
on certain things.

945
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,280
That's cool.
It's always nice to do things

946
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:00,200
like that.
Yeah, I'm old enough.

947
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:05,960
I started in the industry on the
lighting side, and I came into

948
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,920
lighting right when automated
lighting was becoming a thing.

949
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:15,760
And so the whole transition
from, you know, fixed park hands

950
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,840
and things.
So, you know, when I started,

951
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,280
most shows were still mostly
park hands.

952
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,080
Occasionally you had somebody
who had some Vera lights, but

953
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,080
that was it, right.
And then the companies I was

954
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:29,320
working with were creating
alternatives to the to the Vera

955
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,760
lights.
And so I just saw something

956
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,960
similar.
I remember when I saw my first

957
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,560
moving light and I was like,
whoa, you know, nobody's ever

958
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,800
going to use a fixed position
light again.

959
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,800
Why would you, you know, when
you can change color, Why would

960
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,000
you use a light that just does
one thing.

961
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:53,080
I recently, so I'm from Calgary,
Canada, and last summer when I

962
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,480
was there, my house is just
outside of Calgary in the

963
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,680
mountains.
And when I was there last

964
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:05,040
summer, I was invited to PK
Sound to see their system and I

965
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,080
didn't really know what I was
walking into.

966
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:08,840
Right.
And I went into their showroom

967
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,720
and they said, you know here's a
typical setup for an

968
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:17,400
installation and but let's say
there's suddenly a 12 foot wide

969
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,040
column right in front of your
your, you know your your

970
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:26,000
speakers and you know you're
missing sound to a a big part of

971
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,360
the venue or whatever.
And the rig started moving and I

972
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,720
was like what the hell is going
on here?

973
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:35,600
And they showed it to me on the
screen.

974
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,760
What was happening and the all
the science behind it and the

975
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,200
and I was just blown away and I
remember feeling the same thing

976
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:48,400
like why would anyone want a rig
that you can't adjust in the air

977
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:54,760
once you see this technology you
know and but I think you know

978
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,320
that the challenge to that is
obviously that it's kind of like

979
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,960
Betamax where everybody knew
Betamax was better but because

980
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,920
it was only available from Sony
in that one device, it didn't

981
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,880
make much sense where VHS you
could get it anywhere, right.

982
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,600
And so that might become a
problem where people don't want

983
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,080
to change brands just to get
that feature.

984
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:16,920
I don't know.
Do you have any thoughts about?

985
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:23,480
Yeah, I I it's funny because
like Daryl is on me all the time

986
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:28,400
as well when we were in Canada
to come and and see one of their

987
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:29,440
systems.
Yeah.

988
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:38,280
So I mean I don't I heard of it
and I know that it's like self

989
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,400
adjusting so to speak.
But I don't know there's a lot

990
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:51,200
of there's nothing that it does
that you can't really do with

991
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:56,080
something else either other than
like I can't think of a

992
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:01,160
situation where I'm like setting
it up in the morning and then

993
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:05,240
all of a sudden I have the I
have the urge or the need to to

994
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,480
to move it again.
So that that that's where I see

995
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,880
the issue with with that.
And then it's, it's very heavy

996
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,960
as far as I know, obviously
because there's motors in it

997
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:17,920
and.
Stuff into.

998
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:23,200
The box I mean EAW tried
something similar if I remember

999
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:31,160
correctly with the idea a couple
of years back and I.

1000
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,760
I just find it intriguing, you
know?

1001
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:37,240
Like to me, when I saw it, I was
like, wow, you know?

1002
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:42,840
It's an interesting idea, yeah,
that's for sure.

1003
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:47,640
I'm not sure how, how practical
it it is.

1004
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:54,400
Like in a real world doing 300
shows a year type of situation,

1005
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,640
yeah.
But you know, who knows?

1006
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,720
It's like.
I for me this is always very

1007
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,160
like I got asked a couple of
times like in Frankfurt or

1008
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,720
whatever on the on the pro light
and sound, it's like where do

1009
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,920
you think a certain technology
is going or whatever.

1010
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:17,640
It's like, I don't know.
It's like I just use it, you

1011
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,160
know?
Did you go to the show this

1012
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,320
year?
No, no.

1013
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,760
The pro Latin sound has been
dead for a couple of years.

1014
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:30,400
Now since it's I think Messa.
Right, Yeah.

1015
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,880
Was it a complete?
I don't remember what how that

1016
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:35,960
happened.
Well, Messa, I just heard hasn't

1017
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,640
come back, so oh.
It It hasn't.

1018
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,520
Oh, that's true.
It hasn't come back at all.

1019
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:42,560
It hasn't come back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1020
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:44,360
Yeah.
Because it used to be such a

1021
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,840
huge show like I used to go to
music.

1022
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:48,840
Messa and.
Pro Light every year.

1023
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,760
Crazy.
And it was just such a massive

1024
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:53,480
show.
You had to take the bus to get

1025
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,320
from, you know, the sound
pavilion to the lighting

1026
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:58,920
pavilion or whatever, right?
Hold on one second.

1027
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,600
Now it's now it's much smaller.
Yeah.

1028
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:09,680
So, you know, you you, you gave
us back a funny statement when

1029
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:15,440
she asked you, you know, just
funny stories of being on the

1030
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:20,200
road for 25 years with this band
and, you know, being their

1031
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,720
babysitter.
And you know, I mean, that's so

1032
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,120
typical.
Rock bands in particular, I

1033
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,320
think worse than pop artists,
Like pop artists I think have

1034
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,120
sort of there's a list of things
that every pop artist is going

1035
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,080
to do wrong or whatever.
But rock bands are looking for

1036
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,400
trouble.
Like rock bands started the

1037
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,360
whole thing of throwing
televisions out hotel windows

1038
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,720
and flipping cars over.
And you know, I remember one

1039
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:50,960
time we, we, we took furniture
out of all the hotel rooms and

1040
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,960
we furnished the elevators and
and we were like betting on who

1041
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,000
could furnish the elevator
better.

1042
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,560
Like there were six elevators or
whatever, and we furnished the

1043
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:04,120
elevators with plants and
televisions and couches and

1044
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:04,800
everything.
Right.

1045
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,680
It's just stupid things you do
when you're bored, you know?

1046
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,520
But, you know, you mentioned one
story in particular about

1047
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,760
running around South America
with lots of cash.

1048
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:21,439
And it's funny because when I
was early with Martin Lighting,

1049
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,399
I remember we had a guy who was
relatively new with us.

1050
01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:28,720
Now he works for Robe Lighting,
but he was new with us at the

1051
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:33,720
time and he had to go with one
of our sales people down to he.

1052
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,560
He was a guy who did the demos
like he controlled the lights

1053
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,640
and stuff during demos and he
had to go to South America to

1054
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,560
show off some new technology in
a few different countries.

1055
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,960
And the first country we went,
they went to, it was him.

1056
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,040
And one of our sales people,
first country they went to, paid

1057
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,240
us like 60,000 in cash or
something to pay off something

1058
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:57,359
on their account.
And he was so nervous 'cause he

1059
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:02,200
was traveling all over South
America with this, this $60,000

1060
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,520
in cash in his suitcase and he
had to keep checking that box

1061
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,399
saying I don't have more than
10,000 in cash or whatever.

1062
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,439
And he was so nervous.
So your your statement reminded

1063
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:16,040
me of that.
Yeah, I mean thank God those

1064
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:22,479
those days are basically over.
And to me it was always very

1065
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:27,600
bizarre anyway because it's
like, I mean in South America,

1066
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,920
OK, that's one thing.
But you know like especially in

1067
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:36,880
the in the earlier days it was
pretty much like a Wild West

1068
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,000
type of situation and and you
knew that.

1069
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:46,520
But even in the US there was so
many things that were handled

1070
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,600
cash where I'm like what do you
want me to do with this?

1071
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,359
This is like what?
Just wire it.

1072
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,120
Yeah.
What do you mean?

1073
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,800
And this is like literally just
like 15 years ago where they

1074
01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:02,200
crazy.
It was either cash or it was a

1075
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,680
check.
And I'm like, I'm European.

1076
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,600
I have never seen a check in my
life.

1077
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,600
You know what I mean?
I have a bank account and a card

1078
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,320
and you can wire to this bank
account.

1079
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,040
This is how it works.
Like how are you not, this is

1080
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,440
very bizarre for me.
But on this, this was one of the

1081
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:23,760
first like the note that I that
I that I wrote.

1082
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:30,240
This was one of the first South
American runs I did and it just

1083
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:36,520
kept piling on and I had like
this little like to me Weekender

1084
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,160
back basically.
And by the end of the of the run

1085
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,080
it wasn't even that long.
It was like 10 days or two weeks

1086
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,440
or something.
It was literally, it was, it was

1087
01:10:45,440 --> 01:10:52,000
filled to the top with like in
U.S. dollars and it was, it was

1088
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:57,760
not a comfortable no.
And I mean I would definitely, I

1089
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,960
wouldn't do something like that
nowadays.

1090
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,640
I would just refuse.
It's like, yeah, it's not you

1091
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,600
talk to the agent and you figure
it out how we get the money.

1092
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:07,440
I don't.
I don't care.

1093
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,560
You know, but it's funny because
until very recently, like I

1094
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,160
talked to a lot of tour managers
and stuff and until very

1095
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:18,640
recently settlements were done
in cash and.

1096
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,680
Oh, it's not like they're gone.
We just did South America in

1097
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:27,040
November, December last year.
There was a bunch of them that

1098
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,320
were like, Oh yeah, we couldn't
get to the bank to wire it in

1099
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,840
times that we're going to pay
you the balance in cash.

1100
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,880
No, you're not.
I'm not picking up like in 50

1101
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,040
grand or whatever you do, you
know, it's like, are you insane?

1102
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,360
It's like I have three weeks to
go.

1103
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:45,280
I'm going to like, in Colombia.
And you know, I have no

1104
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,240
intention to carry that amount
of money.

1105
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,920
No.
Well, and I mean the same, by

1106
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,920
the way, the same person at the
venue who did that settlement

1107
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:58,040
for 50,000 in cash, he's calling
up his brother and saying, hey,

1108
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:00,920
they're driving a white van.
White van.

1109
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,520
They're going from here to
Bolivia and they're going to

1110
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,560
cross this road right here, you
know, And then your, your car,

1111
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,160
your car is getting attacked by
a bunch of guys jumping out of

1112
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,240
the jungle or something and and
you lose the money, right.

1113
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,640
So yeah.
I mean, it was pretty.

1114
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:23,120
It was pretty dumb so to speak
to do it back in the day but it

1115
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:28,120
was also I mean it was also
obviously way different sums we

1116
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:35,640
were talking and I just think in
general this it changed like

1117
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:43,480
back then it was more like you
know if you could take if you

1118
01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:46,320
have worked with certain
promoters a couple of times you

1119
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,600
could take the word for it and
and you know it all it was kind

1120
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:54,920
of it had this type of quality
which which was nice and and

1121
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,640
nowadays it's either.
Super.

1122
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,400
Corporate.
It's super shady.

1123
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,000
There's nothing in between
anymore.

1124
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:09,400
You know I'm I'm, I'm lucky to
be on the Super corporate type

1125
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:14,640
or side of things where I don't
have to worry about these type

1126
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:21,400
of situations most of the time.
But yeah, the big.

1127
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,800
The big.
Pop the big pop and country

1128
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,480
tours and stuff.
You know, I was, I was.

1129
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:28,640
I refer to this article all the
time.

1130
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:33,880
But I read an article from
Rapino from Live Nation and he

1131
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:38,800
says that the the reason that
tours just keep growing and

1132
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,440
growing and growing and ticket
sales are so crazy and all of

1133
01:13:42,440 --> 01:13:46,000
this stuff is because of social
media followings.

1134
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,440
You know, these artists might
have 10 million followers on

1135
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:51,920
social media.
And he said my job's easy.

1136
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:56,600
All I got to do is sell tickets
to 5% of them and but in in the

1137
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:00,280
middle genre I would think that
it's not so much like that like

1138
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:03,960
or or is it also driven by
social media and?

1139
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:11,920
I think it got a lot more
important maybe later than than

1140
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:17,320
in other genres, but by now you
can definitely tell that that

1141
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:24,640
there is some bands that do
really well, partly because of

1142
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:29,280
how they deal with their social
media and how well they actually

1143
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:34,280
play it.
You know, there's, I can't think

1144
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,880
of anybody right now, but
there's definitely a few out

1145
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:42,320
there that wouldn't be as big as
they are if it wouldn't be

1146
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,400
partly because of social media.
But then again, I mean, you

1147
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,640
know, people are not stupid
either.

1148
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:52,400
Audiences are not stupid
nowadays.

1149
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:58,360
If you don't deliver a certain
quality of show, they go once

1150
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,960
and that's it.
And then that doesn't really

1151
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,760
help anyone either, because
sooner or later you're going to

1152
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,280
run out of people to sell
tickets to.

1153
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,240
Exactly.
But it's a very bizarre time.

1154
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:16,040
Now post Kovid, so to speak
anyway, because there's all

1155
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:19,080
this, you know, you hear it
everywhere.

1156
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,640
All the cost of living just
exploded.

1157
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:23,600
People don't have any money
anymore.

1158
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,600
Everything is so expensive,
especially over here in Europe

1159
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:31,280
with like electricity and gas
and whatnot, with the war in

1160
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,600
Ukraine and all this bullshit
going on.

1161
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:43,240
But on the other hand, like
whatever Taylor Swift or

1162
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:47,680
Coldplay who who pay like play
like 10 shows in the same city,

1163
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:52,040
you know, for ticket prices that
are like way higher than

1164
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:58,200
probably any metal tour ever.
And at the same time, like what

1165
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:03,240
we've seen or what I've seen
with a bunch of bands is merch

1166
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:10,640
sales are crazy.
After COVID, when we went to

1167
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,720
certain cities where we would
do, I don't know, 5 bucks ahead,

1168
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:18,400
it's 10 now and it's like, how
is that?

1169
01:16:18,440 --> 01:16:20,160
Like I don't get it and.
They'll buy.

1170
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:23,640
Anything.
This doesn't really go together

1171
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:28,480
with what you read everywhere
that people don't have any

1172
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:30,240
money.
It's like okay, Obviously they

1173
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:33,680
do have money, they just spend
it way differently than what

1174
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,400
they did like three years ago.
I was talking recently with

1175
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:41,040
someone in the confetti business
and they said, like after a show

1176
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,640
like a Taylor Swift show or
something, people are on eBay

1177
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:49,240
selling pieces of confetti for
like $20 or €20 or whatever,

1178
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,320
right?
For a little tiny bag of pieces

1179
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:55,280
of confetti that were blown off
in the show the two nights

1180
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:59,080
earlier or something, it's it's
shocking to me.

1181
01:16:59,240 --> 01:16:59,880
It's.
Shocking.

1182
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:02,240
Yeah, that's crazy.
And that's probably even the

1183
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,840
more short.
Sweeping up the stadium floor or

1184
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:06,520
whatever.
You know, it's probably those

1185
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,080
people who got smart and said
I'm going to sell this shit on

1186
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,480
eBay and they're filling their
pockets and bags with confetti

1187
01:17:12,480 --> 01:17:15,960
and stuff, right?
But more crazy to me than

1188
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,200
selling it is actually that
there's people out there who

1189
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,080
actually will buy that.
That is something that I

1190
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,440
completely do not understand
well.

1191
01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:24,200
It's like.
Remember.

1192
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,240
People will pay $1,000,000 for
like a what was it?

1193
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:28,840
A grilled cheese sandwich or
whatever?

1194
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:32,480
Because it looked like Jesus, I
forget the story, but you know,

1195
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,760
people will pay.
There's so much money out there

1196
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:40,680
right now that seems to a lot of
it is in the hands of really

1197
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,240
stupid people who will spend any
amount of money to buy things.

1198
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:48,960
And you know, like, I'm a big
fan of, I'm a big fan of classic

1199
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:53,360
cars, classic sports cars,
Camaros and you know, all kinds

1200
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,560
of them.
Cutlass and all of the beautiful

1201
01:17:55,560 --> 01:18:00,480
cars from the 60s and stuff.
Corvettes and the pricing now is

1202
01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:03,120
so insane, you know?
It's just.

1203
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:06,960
Completely insane.
It's it's, I don't know, there's

1204
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:08,760
a lot of money out there, you
know?

1205
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:12,120
Yeah.
And I mean it, it has to be it's

1206
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,200
yeah, yeah, I can't.
I can't really.

1207
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:20,920
Does most of your.
Does most of your work come from

1208
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:24,400
touring or or festivals?
I know festivals, especially in

1209
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,120
metal festivals, are huge in
Europe.

1210
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:27,080
Still right?
But.

1211
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,000
Yeah, I mean there are huge,
there's huge festivals

1212
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:36,760
everywhere I would say.
I mean the Europeans obviously

1213
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:43,040
in invented the the like 3 day
type of camping blah blah blah.

1214
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:47,200
That to my knowledge at least
that doesn't that didn't exist

1215
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:51,920
in the in the US before
Coachella and it doesn't really

1216
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:57,440
exist other than with Coachella
either you know.

1217
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:06,760
But it's yeah usually like there
is always there's always a good

1218
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:11,960
amount of of festivals on on
every on every cycle.

1219
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:19,160
You usually do like on an album
cycle you you might do 2 to 3

1220
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:23,280
summers of festivals.
You know the big important ones

1221
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,360
in the first year when the album
came out and then like the

1222
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:32,600
secondary ones that you couldn't
do because of date clashes or

1223
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:36,320
whatever you do the second year
and then you you go to the

1224
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:40,080
obscure ones so to speak like
that are in in the Wilder

1225
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:44,360
countries in the third year.
So it's it's it's a lot, but

1226
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,760
it's also very compressed in in
time so.

1227
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:52,520
Yeah, but I remember somebody
recently in the Netherlands was

1228
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:56,480
telling me, you know, touring's
not so big in the Netherlands

1229
01:19:56,480 --> 01:19:59,200
and I said, oh, that's too bad,
so you don't get to see no much

1230
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:01,800
live music.
And he said no, there are.

1231
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:06,240
I forget the number.
I think it was 1500 festivals.

1232
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:08,800
In the Netherlands oh that's
yeah I'm.

1233
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,400
Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Just like what, you know, it's a

1234
01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:15,440
small country of what, 5 million
people or something.

1235
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:16,760
I don't.
Even remember.

1236
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,840
But.
Yeah, 1500 festivals,

1237
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:29,760
Netherlands and Belgium.
Is is is special because it's

1238
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:34,200
very they pump a lot of
government money into the

1239
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:39,120
entertainment industry.
And so I mean the best, one of

1240
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:46,800
the best European festivals in
my opinion for the metal genre

1241
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:53,240
is definitely Cusp up in Belgium
because everything is just

1242
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:56,960
perfect.
The whole infrastructure with

1243
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:01,120
the way that backstage is set
up, it's even if the weather is

1244
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,040
not good, you're not in the mud.
It's not you know you have like

1245
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:09,360
proper facilities with like
showers and bathrooms and it's

1246
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:14,560
it's all really, really nice and
really well done and that's very

1247
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,000
unique to to like Belgium and
Netherlands, like all the

1248
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:22,560
smaller, there's a lot of
smallish clubs in in the

1249
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:27,520
Netherlands that like between
1000 to like 15103 thousand

1250
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:33,080
people or whatever.
And they're all like purpose

1251
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:39,000
built venues, you know with with
the little details that are

1252
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:43,120
important, a lot of dressing
rooms, you know a big enough

1253
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,960
freight elevator or whatever.
Most of the time what they do is

1254
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:51,880
they build buildings where they
have like 3 capacity sizes in

1255
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:55,680
the same building.
So you know you can, you can be

1256
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,120
a band that's on the verge and
you get booked into 500 capacity

1257
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:01,520
and all this, Oh no we didn't.
Let's move it and make.

1258
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,960
It to the big room.
Stuff like that.

1259
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:08,920
But it all, it all makes a lot
of sense and you can tell that

1260
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:15,520
there's a that there's a lot of
government money spent because

1261
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:22,560
obviously some people in the
government value that this is

1262
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:25,640
that this is actually important
to people and I mean they're

1263
01:22:26,440 --> 01:22:30,160
making arts off of it and life,
entertainment, whatever genre it

1264
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,720
might be, is important to the
people.

1265
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:36,320
You know it's important for
mental health as we have seen a

1266
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,280
couple of years ago that it's
not good if everything just

1267
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,240
stops.
So you know, it's like I I don't

1268
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:50,040
it's to me, it's very bizarre
that that this is so spotty, so

1269
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:52,320
to speak.
Where, where why why is there

1270
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:56,200
not more money spent on on all
this could be all a much nicer

1271
01:22:56,200 --> 01:23:00,120
experience for everyone, you
know, for the people working the

1272
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,280
industry, for the people who go
to the shows.

1273
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:07,520
It's it's not rocket science,
you know.

1274
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:11,200
And it's obviously still big
business, like there's good

1275
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:13,160
money to be made, of course.
So.

1276
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:15,640
It's.
When did you get back to work

1277
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:17,240
after COVID?
Speaking of COVID.

1278
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:25,840
We did our first tour in 2022.
OK.

1279
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,720
March, February, February 22.
You had pretty much two full

1280
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:35,720
years off then.
I had almost exactly 2 years off

1281
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:37,800
our.
It was for us.

1282
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:45,880
It was very bizarre because we
were going to do Australia and

1283
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:56,840
Asia and then quite late, late
in the game, they booked two

1284
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:58,920
shows in Russia right before
that.

1285
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:06,960
So our last show before COVID
hit was Saint Petersburg and

1286
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:14,760
then we flew to Auckland in New
Zealand just to basically meet

1287
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:19,360
at the lobby of the hotel and
then turn around, get get back

1288
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:25,600
on the get back in the well.
We slept one night and then we

1289
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:29,800
flew back home the next day.
Long flight to do an overnight

1290
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,000
which you.
Know Stay Which Which was

1291
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:35,680
bizarre.
And then I remember I got back

1292
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:39,960
home on the like I flew, I
arrived in Auckland on the on

1293
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:43,200
the on the Friday or Saturday
morning.

1294
01:24:43,480 --> 01:24:48,080
I flew back home on on Sunday
and I arrived at 5:00 or 6:00 in

1295
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:52,600
the morning in Vienna on the
first day of our first lockdown

1296
01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:56,320
and it was just bizarre.
When I got out of the plane,

1297
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:00,520
there was like 3 people at the
airport and then I took a

1298
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:05,320
there's like a 2 1/2 hour train
ride from Vienna to Salzburg

1299
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:08,720
again, I think I was the only
one on the train.

1300
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:09,000
Oh.
My.

1301
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:10,920
God.
And it was just, it was like

1302
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:15,840
some somebody wiped out the,
the, the, all the people it.

1303
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:21,240
Was like a bad sci-fi movie.
It was crazy, absolutely crazy,

1304
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:25,000
you know, And I mean now
obviously it's especially crazy

1305
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:29,680
with thinking that like playing
shows in Russia is, you know,

1306
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,520
this is, I mean it's not going
to happen again in my lifetime.

1307
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:34,880
I don't know.
I'm 100.

1308
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:38,640
No, I'm 100% sure that we're not
going to go back to.

1309
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:44,280
Yeah, this is not happening.
This is going to take way, way

1310
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:50,920
too long to to re establish if
it's even going to happen.

1311
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,760
I mean, we'll see what?
I don't know you.

1312
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,960
Know what happens with the
Orange one in September and then

1313
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:03,400
how that plays out in terms of
Ukraine and Russia and maybe we

1314
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:07,160
have bigger issues come January
anyway.

1315
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:12,280
But yeah, I don't, I don't, I
don't see any any real touring

1316
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,920
going back there anytime anytime
soon.

1317
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:18,880
No, it's.
Interesting, because I think as

1318
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:22,240
as a world, we have a short
memory.

1319
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:27,120
And you know, like remember all
the changes that we were going

1320
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,560
to make during COVID, oh, we'll
never do this again.

1321
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,440
And we're going to do it like
this in the future.

1322
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:33,680
And now we're going to change
all of these things and it's

1323
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:35,840
going to be much safer and much
better and we're going to treat

1324
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:38,000
our people better and blah, blah
blah, yeah.

1325
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:39,520
Bullshit.
Yeah, well.

1326
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:40,280
That's it.
Yeah.

1327
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:43,600
You know, here we are a few
years later, and we're worse

1328
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:45,600
than we were in 2019 in most.
Ways.

1329
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:47,000
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

1330
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:47,400
Yeah.
Yeah.

1331
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:49,560
Yeah.
So I I I agree.

1332
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:54,560
It's crazy.
Yeah, Sarah put a question in

1333
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,280
here That said, are there any
frameworks, methods, or

1334
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:00,800
processes that you found to be
especially useful in your work

1335
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:06,560
that others may find useful too?
And you gave us an answer, but

1336
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:07,640
do you remember what you
answered?

1337
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:12,720
I think it was the thing that
what originally drew me to,

1338
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:20,800
yeah, the audio side of things,
which which is the the fact that

1339
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:25,880
you can basically try anything.
There is obviously certain

1340
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:33,440
physical rules that apply, you
know, just like with a lot of a

1341
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:37,920
lot of other or most other jobs
as well.

1342
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:43,920
But I mean one thing
specifically would be that if

1343
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:47,200
you have two mics on the snare
drum that you always have to

1344
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:53,360
turn the bottom one in phase.
So it's as a whole, it's in

1345
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:56,800
phase again.
And that's one of the that's the

1346
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:57,840
rule.
You have to do it.

1347
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:00,520
No, you don't.
You know, you don't have to do

1348
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:04,160
it because yes, it makes sense
and on paper and you know, if

1349
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:08,200
you calculate it, it's probably
right that you have to do it,

1350
01:28:08,440 --> 01:28:12,040
but you might actually get the
result that you are looking for

1351
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:16,080
with not doing it as an as an
example.

1352
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:20,880
It's like what I like about it
is doing, doing doing stuff

1353
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:26,080
differently just to try it, not
for the sake of it, but you know

1354
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:27,880
try it out.
There's nothing.

1355
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,560
It's not going to hurt anyone.
It's not going to destroy

1356
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,520
anything.
But where are you getting with

1357
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,320
with this when you try things
out?

1358
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:43,280
And I think that's a very
interesting thing to do in

1359
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:47,320
general.
Like I I still do this to this

1360
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:53,200
day after more than 20 years.
Just, you know, wipe out all my

1361
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:59,160
EQ's for instance on on a show
file and like redo it or do it

1362
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:02,520
with a different plug in or do
it completely.

1363
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:06,600
That's interesting.
You know, try out things that

1364
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:11,600
I've never tried before and with
some things it's definitely, you

1365
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:16,080
know, don't never change your
running system like you

1366
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,000
shouldn't.
This has been tried and tested

1367
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:20,800
for 30 years.
Let's keep it like this because

1368
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:24,200
it's fine.
But on other things it's like,

1369
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,040
God, this is crazy.
This is actually awesome.

1370
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:34,120
How how good that works and
different artists or different

1371
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:39,080
genres require different
solutions And so it's like it's

1372
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:44,320
it's one way of like keeping
myself on my toes so to speak, a

1373
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:50,200
little bit to keep like learning
more or new things.

1374
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:55,520
You know, sometimes I'm I'm
like, OK, I try something it

1375
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:57,520
doesn't work for what I'm trying
to do.

1376
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:02,040
And then years later I'm doing
something completely else.

1377
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,080
And I remember, oh, I tried this
once and I do it in this

1378
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,320
different application and it's
like, oh, this is great and this

1379
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:12,040
is this is what it what it
should be in in in my opinion.

1380
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:14,440
Or this means why I like my job
as much as?

1381
01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:16,440
I do.
I like, I like that concept

1382
01:30:16,440 --> 01:30:20,480
because I think you have to
challenge, you know, the norm or

1383
01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:22,760
challenge the rules or break the
rules.

1384
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:25,280
You have to break things in
order to figure out how to make

1385
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:28,080
them better sometimes, right?
And absolutely I.

1386
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,240
Always use.
I always use racing examples

1387
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:33,440
because my son is a racing
driver, but he grew up in go

1388
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:37,920
karts and when he first started
karting and he was frustrated

1389
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:39,600
that he wasn't getting faster
and stuff.

1390
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:44,400
One of the things we did is I
would pay him 5-5 dollars every

1391
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:48,120
time he went off at a corner and
hit the barrier.

1392
01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:51,760
I would pay him to hit the
barrier, and the reason I was

1393
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:56,720
doing this was because he was
forcing himself to carry more

1394
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:01,160
speed through those corners.
And when he when he found the

1395
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:05,000
limit, he you'd have to go over
the limit to find the limit,

1396
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:06,960
right?
So he'd go over the limit, hit

1397
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,080
the barrier, and now he knew I
just got to lift a tiny bit

1398
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,800
sooner, or I got a break a bit
sooner, a bit harder or

1399
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:14,080
whatever.
Yeah, yeah.

1400
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:18,520
Yeah, so he was learning highly
valuable lessons that were

1401
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:23,520
making him a much better driver.
It was only costing me $5 and

1402
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,560
and and he didn't get hurt, you
know, the barriers were soft and

1403
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,440
it wasn't going to hurt him or
anything.

1404
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:33,120
And it got over the fear of
going off track too, you know,

1405
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:36,480
because every other driver was
lifting really early, breaking

1406
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:40,720
really hard, etcetera.
So anyways, tell me about

1407
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaking of Russia.
There's something here about

1408
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:48,920
naked musicians in in trains,
which sounds like a good name

1409
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:51,280
for a metal song.
Naked Musicians in Russian

1410
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:53,480
trains, you know.
Yeah, yeah.

1411
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,280
What's that?
Yeah, that's that's also a long

1412
01:31:56,280 --> 01:32:02,440
time ago we used to take, we
used to take the night train

1413
01:32:02,440 --> 01:32:07,160
from Saint Petersburg to Moscow
or the other way.

1414
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:11,360
So it would basically be do a
show in the one city, pack up,

1415
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:14,880
go to the train station, get on
the train at like 1:00 in the

1416
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,120
morning and then sleep on the
train.

1417
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:23,360
It's such an arrive in the, in
the, in the other it was it was

1418
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:24,680
awesome.
I'm joking.

1419
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,160
I mean now, now it's fine
because they have this high

1420
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:32,000
speed train now between the two
cities, which is only like 3

1421
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,720
hours or something which is a
little bit more comfortable.

1422
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:38,080
But there was nothing wrong with
it and it was always like, you

1423
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:39,720
know, it was always a party
basically.

1424
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:46,680
And that's how it is the naked
musicians came to, basically.

1425
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:50,960
Because no, it's like
Scandinavian people for some

1426
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:55,560
reason get naked in the most
bizarre.

1427
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:59,520
Because they're drunk.
Yeah, but not sometimes they're

1428
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:01,080
sober as well.
They just don't.

1429
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:04,600
This was like something new to
me as well in the in the very

1430
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:09,280
beginning, starting with these
guys and and also with other

1431
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:13,800
Scandinavian bands.
It's like they they just don't.

1432
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:16,360
I don't know, They feel the urge
sometimes to do it.

1433
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:20,480
I don't know, maybe it's the
Finnish sauna mentality or?

1434
01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:23,280
Russia.
Russia to me seems like the

1435
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,600
wrong place to do this though,
you know.

1436
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:27,720
That's where the alcohol comes
in.

1437
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:32,200
Yeah, this just seems.
Like the wrong place to do it

1438
01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:33,160
like something?
Happened.

1439
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:35,360
Russian is going to come and say
net.

1440
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:42,480
If that happened also, it was a
very big Russian lady that came

1441
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:48,400
from the, from the, what do you
call it like the restaurant cart

1442
01:33:49,280 --> 01:33:51,640
basically came back to our
thing.

1443
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:55,360
It was like don't do that again
because somebody dared him to

1444
01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:00,680
run like basically all the way
through the train and come back.

1445
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:03,400
It was as.
Yeah, yeah.

1446
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:08,360
It wasn't only our it wasn't
only our car it was Oh my God

1447
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:11,960
all the way through.
And he made it and nothing

1448
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:14,080
happened.
So it's it's it's fine.

1449
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:21,120
The same same guy was chased by
Japanese hotel security in Tokyo

1450
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:26,160
through the hallways and stuff.
It's, yeah.

1451
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:29,240
You were you weren't married at
the time, right?

1452
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:31,960
No.
Because I just wonder if that's

1453
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:35,000
a story that you call your wife
and say, Oh yeah, Did anything

1454
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,840
happen today, honey?
Well, yeah, we kind of got in

1455
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,560
trouble for running naked
through the train, you know?

1456
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:42,080
But.
Yeah.

1457
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:44,560
Oh yeah, it would.
I would definitely tell her

1458
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:46,480
those stories.
Really.

1459
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:48,840
It's one of.
Yeah, it's.

1460
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:51,560
Is she from the industry?
Nothing.

1461
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:57,760
No, nothing really ever happened
that had, like, bad

1462
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:01,440
consequences.
And there was some really stupid

1463
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:05,000
things done back in the day.
And even now.

1464
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:11,440
I mean, I had musicians arrested
for various reasons and it was

1465
01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:13,600
always like, OK, slap on the
wrist.

1466
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:22,160
It's I think as long as you're
not a complete idiot, the time

1467
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:28,120
when you face like an authority,
yeah, then you're you're usually

1468
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:29,680
good.
Yeah, yeah, it's.

1469
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:34,640
Like, you know that's hilarious.
And then if not, you just go to

1470
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:37,680
jail for a night and.
Yeah, so I know you.

1471
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:41,400
I know you've been drinking wine
during this recording and it's

1472
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:43,240
morning for me, so I'm jealous.
But.

1473
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:45,680
And you've mentioned that you
love champagne.

1474
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:48,560
Yes, yeah, that was actually
champagne as well.

1475
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:51,200
Oh, was it?
Just yeah, yeah.

1476
01:35:51,480 --> 01:35:54,920
Day drinking champagne.
I like it, Yes.

1477
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:57,240
But you're also a big coffee
guy.

1478
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:00,520
Yes.
Is that is that because of,

1479
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:03,440
like, the drug in coffee that
keeps you awake and makes you

1480
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:05,440
buzzed?
Or is it the flavor and stuff,

1481
01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:06,360
Which is why I?
Like it?

1482
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:07,480
No.
Yeah, it's.

1483
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:16,040
I mean, Austria having a very
vast coffee house tradition.

1484
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:20,080
That's definitely one thing.
Yeah, I didn't know that.

1485
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:24,280
And then and then, oh, Vienna is
like full of it.

1486
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:30,320
And it's the the oldest, the
oldest coffee cafes in the

1487
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:32,680
world, really, you know,
together.

1488
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,080
But I've never been to.
I've never been to Austria.

1489
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:38,320
I've been to many places, but
I've never been to Austria.

1490
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,240
I want to.
I always wanted.

1491
01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:43,040
To go, because I grew up in
Canada skiing, you know, and I

1492
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:45,960
always wanted to go to Austria
skiing even, you know, but I

1493
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:48,920
just never got there.
Yeah, no, I mean that's

1494
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:51,680
definitely a big part of it.
And then obviously being very

1495
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:58,120
close to Italy and and spending
lots and lots of childhood

1496
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:06,400
family vacations in Italy that's
that's another I think and it's

1497
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:12,040
like I'm not a I'm not a nerdy
coffee drinker like you know

1498
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:15,720
searching for the and I need to
try this new bean and that new

1499
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:21,360
bean or whatever like I bought
myself espresso machine right at

1500
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:25,040
the beginning of the of when
COVID hit because obviously they

1501
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:29,080
closed all the cafes and I was
like OK I can't I need to have

1502
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,960
something at home And it was
from the beginning that I that I

1503
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:37,760
was just in search of the let's
call it the perfect espresso

1504
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:45,680
like what the you know the the
the port or shipyard worker in

1505
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:52,360
in in Napoli what they drink as
coffee the €1.00 at the bar in

1506
01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:56,800
the morning one zip and and
that's it and that's what I

1507
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:01,560
basically have.
I have like 2-3 different beans

1508
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,120
that I change up every now and
then, but that's it I may.

1509
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,120
Well, here's, here's what we're
gonna do.

1510
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:10,880
Sarah's gonna reach out and get
your address and we're gonna

1511
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:14,680
send you.
We have a relationship with a

1512
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,440
local coffee maker here.
So it's a guy.

1513
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:23,680
It's a guy from our industry who
took on a passion for coffee and

1514
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:26,520
at some point he bought a small
roaster and put it in his

1515
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,040
garage.
And he really learned.

1516
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:32,280
And he flew around all over the
world figuring out learning the

1517
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:34,880
best beans and things.
And it became such a passion

1518
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:38,600
that eventually people started
saying, Jamie, your coffee is

1519
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:40,200
amazing, can you make me a bag
of it?

1520
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,120
Can you make me?
So he was giving it away to all

1521
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:44,840
his friends and then they were
saying, well my buddy wants one,

1522
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:47,880
can I buy one?
And so Long story short it

1523
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:51,680
became a a business called
coffee cult with KS like German

1524
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:55,760
and and so.
I think I've seen this before.

1525
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:59,600
So we created.
So I started drinking it just as

1526
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:04,960
a customer and I I love dark
coffee.

1527
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:08,200
So I I make like a regular
American cup of coffee from a

1528
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:12,560
nice espresso machine that that
is a Delonghi automatic machine.

1529
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:14,520
Very easy to use and really
nice.

1530
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,200
And so I drink regular coffee
and espresso, but I usually

1531
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:20,400
drink like an American tall
coffee, you know?

1532
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:23,280
And so I would drink the dark
one.

1533
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:25,960
And my girlfriend was like, oh,
it's too strong for me.

1534
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:31,320
And so I started mixing their
medium roast and this particular

1535
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:35,240
dark roast, which was called Rd.
Dog and because he's from our

1536
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:41,000
industry and so it was perfect.
And so one time I told him I

1537
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,880
mixed these and he goes, well,
we should make you a custom

1538
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:46,640
blend and we'll.
Just them together in one bag.

1539
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,400
Yeah, that's awesome.
So we did that and we called it

1540
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:52,160
geezers grind and so now it's
branded.

1541
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:56,560
Fantastic.
So the cool thing is all of the

1542
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:01,200
proceeds from that coffee go to
our industry for people who got

1543
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:05,000
injured or don't have a health
insurance or have a problem or

1544
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:08,520
mental health, whatever it is,
but it goes to a charity to

1545
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,720
support our industry.
And so anyways, Long story

1546
01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:15,560
short, it's a really good coffee
and we'll have Sarah get your

1547
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,800
address and we'll we'll figure
out a way to ship a a bag of it

1548
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:21,320
over to Austria.
Excellent.

1549
01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:22,760
Yeah.
Thank you.

1550
01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:25,360
Thank you.
Yeah, of course So.

1551
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:29,480
And I I share your your passion
for coffee, but I'm not, you

1552
01:40:29,480 --> 01:40:31,320
know, I'm Canadian.
Our coffee is terrible.

1553
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:33,400
In Canada, we have this place
called Tim Horton's.

1554
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:35,400
Tim.
Yeah, Tim, Tim Horton's.

1555
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:37,960
I don't know if you know, but
he, he was a very good hockey

1556
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:40,920
player and I know I didn't.
Yeah.

1557
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:42,640
He started this chain of coffee
shops.

1558
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:44,840
He just died a few years ago, I
think, actually.

1559
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:47,840
But.
But their coffee is terrible,

1560
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:51,200
you know, And compared to what
you drink and what I drink now,

1561
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:52,840
yeah.
So yeah.

1562
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:58,240
I mean nowadays I have to say
it's a lot easier to to get good

1563
01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:00,760
and decent coffee.
You know the guy.

1564
01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:05,760
In the beginning in in
especially in the US, it was it

1565
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,320
was difficult.
There was, there was nothing.

1566
01:41:08,760 --> 01:41:11,880
And then all of a sudden, OK,
Starbucks, which at least it's

1567
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:13,720
like, OK, at least it's
consistent.

1568
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:16,160
It's not great, but it's it's
not.

1569
01:41:16,440 --> 01:41:18,480
At least it's not like truck
stop coffee.

1570
01:41:18,520 --> 01:41:22,520
Yeah, you know, but nowadays,
but.

1571
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:25,080
It's $7.00 which pisses me off,
You know, like a.

1572
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:26,800
Cup of coffee.
Is 7 bucks.

1573
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:29,880
It's so stupid.
That's one, yeah.

1574
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:33,160
That's and like you said in in
Italy, you know you go to a

1575
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,720
little cafe and it's €1.00 and
it's 10 times better.

1576
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:42,000
Yeah, yeah.
But we actually have with Within

1577
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:46,360
in Flames crew, we have this
unofficial coffee club.

1578
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:55,440
It's the lighting guy, the one
of the guitar techs and me who

1579
01:41:55,440 --> 01:42:02,000
basically we try to like every
day on a, on a, on a show day,

1580
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:04,400
we try to go out and like, you
know.

1581
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,880
Coffee.
Find a good a good espresso

1582
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:12,040
within the vicinity of of the
you.

1583
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:14,360
Know it's so funny because 30
years ago you would have been

1584
01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:16,640
looking for a strip club.
Now you're looking for a cup of

1585
01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:19,080
coffee.
It's so funny.

1586
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:22,040
Yeah, how things have changed,
right?

1587
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:25,000
Yeah.
Thomas, I appreciate you taking

1588
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:28,120
the time today to do this with
us and it's been a pleasure

1589
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:32,120
getting to know you.
And like I said, we'll get you,

1590
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:34,120
we'll get you a bag of coffee
somehow.

1591
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:38,600
And and as much as I'm not a
massive fan of the music, if I

1592
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:42,800
see you popping around Florida
at any point, I'll make a point

1593
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:44,200
of reaching out and coming to
see you.

1594
01:42:45,400 --> 01:42:46,560
Absolutely.
Please do.

1595
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:49,640
All right my friend.
Thanks so much and have a great

1596
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:51,080
one.
Thank you.

1597
01:42:51,080 --> 01:43:07,080
You too.
Yeah.