#230 - Todd Spencer

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Hello and thanks for joining me
today on Geese of Gear Episode

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#230.
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I'm back and we have another
episode here for you today.

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So who saw Marian yesterday?
She was awesome.

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Mariam from LDI.
She's been there for ages and

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she does an amazing job.
Her and Ellen and the rest of

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the people at LDI do an amazing
job.

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I've known them all for a long
time.

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I appreciate them very much.
I have a huge, high degree of

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respect for them.
And so if you haven't had a

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chance to go listen to 229 yet,
please do check out Marion and

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our discussion concerning her
career and also the trade show

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LDI Trade show.
And I also wanted to give props

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to this company right here.
You can't really see their logo.

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Maybe I can move the stand in a
little bit and you can see it.

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So Ultimate support sent me one
of these things to try and to

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give them my opinion and I
happen to completely love it.

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I've screwed it up now by
bending it, but I love it.

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I I think that this is the one I
used to have, I think was a road

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one or something.
They sent me this one.

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I I think it just blows it away.
It's it's such a better boom

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stand for anyone who's doing
this kind of thing, whether it's

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a podcast or something else.
Now of course I can't get it

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back to where I want it, but
anyways, great Stan, thank you

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very much to ultimate support.
Love it and get one if you do a

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podcast or anything else that
requires you to have a boom like

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this.
And so today our guest is Mr.

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Todd Spencer.
And Todd's career spans more

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than 25 years, with firms
varying in size from 1,000,000

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to 3 billion in revenues.
Over 18 years in executive

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leadership roles working with
both startups and established

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companies to guide strategic and
operational growth.

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Acquisitions, turnarounds and
business sales.

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Established track record of
success in strategic plan

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development, operational
optimization, new program design

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and deployment, business
acquisition and sale.

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And the executive leadership of
multifaceted global teams.

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Generating success with a client
centered culture, established

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credibility and industry
reputation.

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And also partnering with AV and
specialist specialist event

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companies to achieve their
growth vision through

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transformative strategies,
providing consultative guidance

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to executives, entrepreneurs and
ownership groups to maximize the

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value and output of their
business.

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I'll tell you what, that bio
makes me feel unworthy of even

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having this guy on the show.
So let's have a chat with Todd.

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Hello, Todd.
Hello, Marcel isn't.

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That weird.
When we have a talk before we

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come on and then I say hello
Todd, like I just saw you.

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Like I just answered the call.
Interrupted context?

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Yeah, exactly.
It's a bit odd.

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It's weird.
You know who taught me that,

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though was Joe Rogan.
Joe Rogan always just goes,

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hello Bob, you know.
And they've been talking for an

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hour and you know, smoking
something funny or drinking

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something funny or whatever it
is they do before they start the

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podcast, right.
I am no Joe Rogan, so I have to

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be a little more official.
So appreciate you taking the

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time to come and do this.
I know we've talked about it for

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a little while.
I'm.

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I'm an admirer of the things
that you have done and that you

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do.
And I'm kind of a consultant

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geek.
I like consultants who have

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these, you know, really big
packages of information that

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they collect from multiple
companies.

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And I I will give us both the
disclaimer here and say that

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there's probably some things you
can't talk about because you do

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probably have some Ndas with
companies and things like that

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and that's totally OK, not going
to try and get anyone in

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trouble.
So any other ground rules?

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Not that I can think of.
Try.

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Try really hard not to.
Like do silly things like pick

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your nose on camera or whatever,
because I'm not going to edit

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that stuff out.
I will leave it in on purpose.

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As well you should.
Yes, we do.

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We do have blooper reels and we
are not too proud to play them.

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So we will play them and they
get played on me sometimes too,

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like I do dumb stuff and it
shows up and God forbid, believe

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it or not, Sarah actually did a
couple of dumb things and those

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showed up as well.
So there you go.

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So you know, I like to kind of
find out this is your first time

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on the podcast, of course.
So I like to get a little bit of

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history on how you know our
industry and and you're probably

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different than this.
I'm guessing you know you you

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had a much more formal start to
this.

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But our industry, especially
some of the the folks a little

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bit older than you that I get on
to the podcast usually like they

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were you know, playing
basketball at the park or

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something and somebody came and
said hey, jump in, I got a gig

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for you and they don't even know
anything about lighting or sound

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or anything.
And next thing you know they're

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working for ACDC or something.
And I mean, literally, I've

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heard so many of those stories
and it was either that like just

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totally by accident, I was
sitting in a pub and and, you

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know, met Mick Jagger and all of
a sudden I was a stage manager,

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or I was a DJ or I was a
musician and realized I wasn't

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going to make any money as a
musician.

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But I really liked the lighting
stuff or the sound stuff or

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whatever.
So what was it that got you into

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the industry?
Yeah, for me it was organic as

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well.
Initially, I was really lucky.

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I had two teachers in middle
school and then in high school

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who had both spent time in New
York, had worked on Broadway,

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had worked off Broadway, and
ironically had been roommates in

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New York at some point in the
past before they came to

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Arizona, where I was and AM and
decided to teach middle school

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and high school.
And so I was I I benefited

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greatly from that sort of
accidental.

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I just met the right person who
was really interested in it.

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And yeah, my parents weren't so
interested in it because it had

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me coming home at like 1:00 and
2:00 in the morning after I'd be

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working in the shop and I'd be
building a piece of scenery or

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playing with a lighting console
and checking stuff out for the

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first time.
And you know, I write as

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saucers.
And so I think they, they got a

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taste early on of like, we're
not sure we like having our kid

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in theater or this whole
entertainment bug thing that

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seems to be happening that he's
been bitten by.

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But yeah, I I really benefited
greatly from that.

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And you know, for them, they
actually went out of their way

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to try to get me connected with
stuff, which was pretty cool

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looking back at it.
You know, I can't imagine sort

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of being in that environment now
and having a teacher being like,

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yeah, you know what, I'm doing
an over hire call over here.

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Why don't you come with me this
Saturday and we'll just go,

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we'll go check it out, right.
And there are some that do.

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And I just got super lucky in
that these guys made me a part

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of their their own experience
and their own community and sort

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of dragged me along with them in
the places that I wanted to go.

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And it they usually didn't have
to drag too hard because I was

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super interested in all the toys
and all the things they were

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doing and so.
You you never actually had a a

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real job then a job outside our
industry.

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You know, I've so I've had a
couple of, a couple of different

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kind of consulting areas that
I've worked with outside of our

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industry.
But yeah, my first job was

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actually a melodrama theater in
Tucson, AZ, thinking serving

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pizzas and beers.
I was a lighting and sound tech

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and then I was an assistant
stage manager and I think I was

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making like $3.75 an hour and it
was the best job I could have

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hoped for.
Then it was a lot of fun and a

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lot of grind.
By the way, I don't think

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theater wages have gone up much
since then.

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Very true.
I think it might be 390 now or

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something you know.
But yeah it's it's it's wild.

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So wow that's pretty cool.
Straight out of school and and

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right into theater and and
learning your way around to shop

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and stuff and so I know like
fast forwarding a little bit,

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you you started your own
company, right?

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I did.
So I had a real interest in the

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lighting, kind of going through
the different calls that I would

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take working for different labor
companies than just sort of

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getting my feet wet and checking
it out.

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I started an audio, actually,
and that was a lot of my dad's

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influence.
He had a background in designing

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audio products.
He's an engineer who has mostly

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worked in aerospace, so he he
had a real job by by his

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standards and using his
engineering talents there.

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But as it turns out, he's a
brilliant design engineer for

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audio products.
Really high quality studio audio

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type products.
Anything.

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We know he runs a company called
True Audio Systems and has a lot

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of preamps and some of his
design work has landed in other

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other groups and other product
manufacturers.

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And I don't in total know, but I
know there's a a handful of

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companies that sort of use his
secret sauce in their products.

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So was it was audio for him, a
side hustle like he was in

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aerospace, and audio was just
the thing, like a passion on the

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side, a hobby almost, that
actually paid some money

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occasionally?
Yeah it was absolutely a hobby

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for him.
And he found this kind of

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magical space I think for him
where he got to blend the the

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design engineering nerdy pieces
that he liked with actually

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doing some front of house
mixing.

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And that was where I got sort of
interested is because I would

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tag along and be this really
obnoxious little you know 3 foot

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nothing talking mouth in the
background asking all the

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questions of everybody who would
talk to me and what does that do

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and how do you plug in that
microphone and what does this

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knob do.
And so you know I I all I had to

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say I got my first taste of it
in audio run in front of house

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consoles and running monitor mix
in some situations.

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And and looking back on it now
it probably was a pretty funny

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sight to see like a 12 year old
kid run in front of house on a

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you know a a a 48 or 60 or 72
channel plus console.

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Like, I mean, I'm a little bit
analog console.

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Yeah, but.
A10.

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Foot long analog console back in
the day.

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00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,200
When When?
Consoles were mean and big, you

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know, Now they're all this this
small and they got 800 channels

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and stuff, right?
So.

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Yeah, well, exactly how the
meters and all the little

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incandescent lights glowing up
there on the deck.

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00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,200
And I mean it's like it's like
an 11 or 12 year old kid.

228
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,600
It was heavy, was amazing.
That is so cool.

229
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:12,520
So, so you then transitioned
into lighting because it was

230
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,880
just more from the creative side
or what was it that attracted

231
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,520
you more to lighting than audio?
Yeah.

232
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,880
So I was in a venue where the
lighting booth was on one side

233
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,520
of the building and the audio
booth was sort of on the

234
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,440
opposite side of front of house,
just the way that this building

235
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,640
was set up.
And I noticed there was this

236
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,640
rivalry very early on, the audio
guys didn't didn't, you know,

237
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,720
much associate with the lighting
guys and the lighting guys

238
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,280
thought the audio guys didn't
get them and their way of life.

239
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,400
And so there was this inherent
kind of funny friction that was

240
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,960
there for me.
What it was is when the lights

241
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,920
move, the audience goes wow, and
when the audio sounds really

242
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,560
good, they do this nothing.
It doesn't make a lot of.

243
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,960
Difference.
They know when it's too loud or

244
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,480
too quiet, but other than that,
you know, I mean, there's not a

245
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,720
lot of change going on.
That's right.

246
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,280
And so there were no oohs and oz
and that's what it was.

247
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,600
More so it was the Oohs and the
oz that when I sat there running

248
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,920
front of house going those guys
move the lights and they have

249
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,160
these atmospheric effects and
they do all this cool visual

250
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,000
stuff.
I want that And so that was how

251
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,720
I got involved.
I defected from the audio booth

252
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,360
and moved over to the lighting
booth and they embraced me

253
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,640
because I think it was their way
of getting even with the audio

254
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,760
guys that lighting was cooler
but it played in my favor and

255
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,880
and so I started doing more
lighting gigs.

256
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,840
And the reason I started the
company was because I noticed

257
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,920
that the guys making more money
brought their own gear with

258
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,000
them.
They were showing up on site

259
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,560
with their own hog console or
you know hey I got a 12 pack of

260
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,760
movers I can throw at this show
for you.

261
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,920
And so I'm watching these guys
and I'm like, what I want to get

262
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,760
paid more.
I want to be able to do more

263
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,120
stuff.
And so I bought a console and

264
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,560
then I bought moving lights and
then I bought hoists and Trusts

265
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,640
and then I had a warehouse and
it just, you know, like this

266
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,320
mushroom effect of what
happened.

267
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,880
So yeah, sorry, long way around,
but that's that's how I got

268
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:16,920
there.
That's what started.

269
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,920
That was just this thought that
lighting was cooler and more fun

270
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,160
and got these audience reactions
and I needed to own some gear if

271
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,360
I was going to make it bigger.
Yeah, yeah.

272
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,080
No, that makes tons of sense.
Like, I love the entrepreneurial

273
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,920
approach where it's just as
simple as, hey, those guys drive

274
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,360
the nice cars, those guys over
there drive the beat up old

275
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,760
pickup trucks.
I want to be those guys, you

276
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,600
know, and just paying attention
to how the money's flowing or

277
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,440
how the deals are flowing in, in
these situations.

278
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,840
So small company, I'm guessing
like it never got to where you

279
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,800
had hundreds and hundreds of
moving lights.

280
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,800
It was just a relatively small
company.

281
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,599
Yeah, it it was a relatively
small company and so I got a

282
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:09,440
call one day because I was
competing in hotels and

283
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,000
convention centers.
So what I found after a stent of

284
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,520
traveling was, hey, there's some
venues kind of local to me that

285
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,200
I could go and rent some gear
and do some.

286
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,760
You know back then what we
called more industrial shows,

287
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,160
you know now it's more corporate
and AV and it's been technology

288
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,359
is more kind of extremely
accepted now.

289
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,000
But back in those days, you
didn't have big trust rigs

290
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,080
hanging in ballrooms.
This was not a common

291
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,280
occurrence.
And so I started selling into

292
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,520
those hotels for those, you
know, Microsoft meetings and

293
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,640
Amazon meetings and whoever was
bringing their sales team to

294
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,280
wherever they were going.
And it was July 4th.

295
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,080
I was outside grilling burgers
and Full disclosure, I was a

296
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,480
couple beers in and my cell
phone rings and I answer it and

297
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,480
it's presentation services.
One of their regional vice

298
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,720
presidents back then you know
who later became PSAV and then

299
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,320
later became global and and so
the guy says I wanted to call

300
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,240
you and let you know that I want
you to stop competing in our

301
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,400
hotels.
And I paused for a moment and I

302
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,120
laughed and I said that doesn't
sound like my problem.

303
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,160
And he was, he was very gracious
to me.

304
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,320
And he laughed and he said,
let's just have lunchtime.

305
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,640
Let's let's talk this thing out.
Let's figure out what, you know,

306
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,840
maybe what we could do together.
And so that was.

307
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,160
Were you freaking out or
inspired that you were on this

308
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,480
guy's radar?
You know, I'll be honest, I

309
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,760
don't think I had enough
presence of mind in that moment

310
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:47,360
to really focus my thoughts.
Either way, it was, you know,

311
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,880
later I there was more
inspiration to it.

312
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,480
But, you know, new to business
like that.

313
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,080
You're also a little nervous,
right?

314
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,520
I mean, I didn't have the
business history of thinking,

315
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,640
hey, this guy doesn't have any,
any real threat, you know, that

316
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,120
he can leverage against me.
This is just sort of one company

317
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,600
calling another saying, hey, I'm
a little chapped, you're

318
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,920
competing in our space, you
know?

319
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,040
But I didn't, I didn't have that
history then so that I would say

320
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,440
there's a little bit of fear
too, like, hey, that's a big

321
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,480
dog.
What do I got the big dog's

322
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,520
attention?
Cool.

323
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,600
Do I want the big dogs?
Yeah, exactly.

324
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,400
Yeah.
Oh, that's that's interesting.

325
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,320
So did you have lunch?
We did.

326
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,680
We did.
We had a nice little Italian

327
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,760
deli down the street and a big
old Philly cheese steak and

328
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,360
talked it out.
And he turned out to be a lovely

329
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:41,080
guy and we became friends after
that.

330
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,600
And he said, you know, I think
there's an opportunity here.

331
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,760
Would you consider selling your
company and coming to work for

332
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,840
us and helping us grow some of
our brands with what you know

333
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,000
how to do?
And the short of that story was

334
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,360
I ultimately said yes.
And it was a great learning

335
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:04,760
adventure and learn a lot about
our business and I learned about

336
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,640
what to do and what not to do.
And so you know, you asked about

337
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,720
small company.
It was a very small company and

338
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,000
one of the reasons why I do what
I do now.

339
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,640
Was inspired around the fact
that I wish I had had somebody I

340
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,320
could have called back then and
said hey dude, I don't need all

341
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,240
the chapters and sort of the the
big business playbook.

342
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,720
But I would love to have a
mentor that would give me the

343
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,120
curated chapters of here's
what'll really help you right

344
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:34,000
now.
And I didn't have and I I.

345
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,600
So I try to be that for others.
Well, you know, it's such a

346
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,880
great point.
Like the the challenge is people

347
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,840
don't understand like I I know
so many people who go watch like

348
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:51,360
a, you know, a a video of some
guru, business guru, whatever on

349
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,080
YouTube and they think that
that's how they run their

350
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,520
business.
But the problem is a business

351
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,600
from zero to 500,000 is totally
different than a business from

352
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,880
500,000 to 2 million, which is
totally different than a

353
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,720
business from 2 to 5 million.
Every one of those businesses is

354
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,720
completely different.
So the answer to a question like

355
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,760
what should I do is an entirely
different answer depending on

356
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,680
which one of those businesses
they are, right.

357
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,120
And and so I'm sure you now know
how to deal with all kinds of

358
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,040
those businesses.
Like somewhere I read in the

359
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:30,720
stuff you sent me, I think
revenue from, you know, I don't

360
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,920
remember what it was to
something billion.

361
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,720
You know, it was from like
1,000,000 to 3 billion or

362
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,280
something.
And there's a lot of stuff in

363
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,840
there, like there's a lot of
different businesses.

364
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:46,680
And you know, I learned that a
long time ago that I really

365
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,480
didn't know how to get a
business past 15,000,000.

366
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,080
Like I I got a couple of them,
215,000,000, and then just hit a

367
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,640
ceiling.
I didn't know what to do next,

368
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,240
you know.
And it's not that you, you

369
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,160
forget how to sell or you forget
how to hire people or you

370
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,200
forget.
It's just all the nuances.

371
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,920
It's all the other stuff.
Yeah, Yeah, that resonates a lot

372
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,000
for me.
And that's an area where I spend

373
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:14,440
a lot of my time actually is
working with those groups that

374
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,600
fit into sort of one of three
categories.

375
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,480
They're a founder LED company.
They're an early matrix company

376
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,040
where maybe they've got a
handful of investors, but it's

377
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,840
not well structured.
It's still pretty loose and

378
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,160
trying to grow.
And then you got a mature Matrix

379
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,280
organization which you know
where the big organizations that

380
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,920
are big dollars and have C
suites attached to them, right.

381
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,760
They all have very different
behaviors and needs and and and

382
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,160
leadership ideals in many cases.
And so you know when you talk

383
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,600
about the revenue thresholds
that is something that I think

384
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,920
people don't really understand
unless they've been and lived

385
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,040
through the different stages of
it.

386
00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,920
And so it's kind of it's
interesting for me in a nerdy

387
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,240
kind of a way because I'll get a
call from somebody and they'll

388
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,320
start describing the issues that
they're having.

389
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,880
And I'll say, can I ask you a
question, is your business about

390
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,360
X amount of revenue a year?
And almost invariably they will

391
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:15,000
say, yeah, that's really close.
How did you know that?

392
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,520
And it's not magic, It's just
because there are curated stages

393
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,680
where businesses get hungrier or
need different things to support

394
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,640
their growth.
And so hitting a plateau, very

395
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,000
common.
And and the other thing that you

396
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,560
mentioned that really hit for me
is I think a lot of CEOs owners,

397
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,160
executive leaders tend to think
if they hit a plateau or if they

398
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,360
have a challenge, it's an
indictment on them.

399
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:45,600
It's an indictment on their
inability to go or grow beyond a

400
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,720
certain point, and it's
absolutely not.

401
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,560
You know what?
What What companies I think fail

402
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,360
to give themselves enough grace
on is to pause and say, man,

403
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:59,600
we've kicked ass.
We've done an amazing job of all

404
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,680
of the things that we've brought
to life over however many years

405
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,760
to get us to today.
And we could do some of these

406
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,680
other things.
Let's involve some other people

407
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,280
who have been down that road,
who have seen around the corner

408
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,280
of what that looks like and pull
from those chapters in the

409
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,160
playbook to help us now.
And those are the the people

410
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,440
that I really enjoy working
with.

411
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,440
They're the ones that that know
that there are those of us out

412
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,000
there who who don't mind riding
shotgun.

413
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,320
You know, we don't mind being
the ghost in the machine to to

414
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,200
offer guidance or help and and
share those chapters from the

415
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,200
big playbook that that could
influence them greatly.

416
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,320
Yeah, I mean, you just said so
much stuff, you know.

417
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,560
But one of the things that stood
out for me is, is this thing

418
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,680
where CEOs, you know, oh, I'm
such a loser.

419
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,160
I failed, I whatever.
And I've gone through all of

420
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,520
these same things and I've had
to basically coach myself out of

421
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,920
it or or train myself or
whatever you call it.

422
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:58,920
But one of the things I learned
is to stop comparing yourself

423
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,360
against others.
Like to stop saying, you know,

424
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:07,480
I'm here, but Bob over there is
here and therefore I'm an idiot,

425
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,640
you know, and but what you got
to do is you compare yourself to

426
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,240
yourself.
You compare yourself to where

427
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,920
you were six months ago, a year
ago, two years ago, whatever.

428
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,840
And, you know, like this was a
real challenge for me because I

429
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:26,720
had these sort of these, these
levels in my head that I

430
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,800
expected to hit by whether it
was certain years of the

431
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,560
business or certain my age or
whatever it is.

432
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,400
And then life happens, you know,
and and then COVID happens and

433
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,240
then 52,000 other things happen.
And you know, that's just the

434
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,840
life of an entrepreneur.
Like if you beat yourself up

435
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,280
every time you hit a bump in the
road, you're going to die of a

436
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,320
heart attack, unfortunately.
You know, So now really great

437
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,640
words and and I mean, like I
said, like I anyone, I get,

438
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,120
people come to me all the time.
Like, I can help someone.

439
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,680
I can't really help from like 0
to 5 million as much anymore

440
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,320
because I never really behaved
like the startups do today,

441
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,280
where you go out with a great
idea, you send around a pitch

442
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,200
deck, you raise, you know, a few
Angel investments or whatever it

443
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,800
is.
And like, I don't know that way

444
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,520
of doing things.
I'm a bootstrapper.

445
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,080
So what I do is I go out and
sell my car and get two credit

446
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,080
cards and then I start a
business with that and then I

447
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,840
know that I got to pay those
credit cards.

448
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,440
So I better raise some money as
fast as I can or raise some

449
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,800
sales and then you just keep
building it from there.

450
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,120
So very much a bootstrapped
business model, right.

451
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,320
But you know, if somebody said
how do I get my business from,

452
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,960
you know, 5 million to 10
million or from 3 million to 5

453
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,520
million or whatever, I'm
certainly an expert on that

454
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,120
cause I've done it multiple
times and I've also stayed in,

455
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:57,360
in contact with all of the new
like this is the other thing

456
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,200
doing that today versus doing
that five years ago totally

457
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,840
different again because of tools
that are available and yadda

458
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,600
yadda, right so.
Yeah, that the money piece has

459
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,640
radically changed.
I feel like in terms of not just

460
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,760
the funding for the businesses
though, I think that has been

461
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,000
dramatically affected.
You know most of the deals that

462
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,600
I'm seeing right now that either
I'm involved with or others I

463
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,640
know in our industry are sort of
going through.

464
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,120
Money's harder to get and the
smaller you are, the harder it

465
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,600
is.
And there's there's a lot of

466
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,360
reasons for that in my opinion.
I think right now we've gotten

467
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,600
to a place where there's so many
kind of upper, mid and mega

468
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,440
players in terms of revenue that
big investors are looking for

469
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,880
big returns.
And they know that they're going

470
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,200
to have to put in the time and
then grind with a smaller 1 to

471
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,360
get a lesser return than they
will with a bigger one.

472
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,480
And when you've got something
big and you've got big money to

473
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,800
play with to to force multiply
that big thing, that's already

474
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,480
got momentum.
That's where you put.

475
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,040
Well, it also used to be where
these guys, you know, especially

476
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:10,480
like family offices or or just
wealthy individuals, they

477
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,320
couldn't sit on their money
because it was earning 1/2 a

478
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,920
point or something, You know, it
just, it wasn't.

479
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,120
But now they can earn four and a
half, 5% plus just leaving it

480
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:24,000
sitting, you know in a financial
institution and doing nothing

481
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,720
like the money's completely safe
and and so yeah, I mean it's

482
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,760
definitely getting harder.
Your deal has to really stand

483
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,200
out among a crowd.
And I've I, you know most of

484
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,320
this is just knowledge from
friends of mine and stuff or

485
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,200
companies I've helped get to
that stage or whatever.

486
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,160
But I've I've not raised money
myself.

487
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,800
I never have and hopefully never
will.

488
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,680
But who knows, maybe I will
someday.

489
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,080
But yeah, it's it's an
interesting world out there

490
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,600
right now.
Like, you know, I think

491
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,280
everyone's looking for a deal,
but they they, they want more

492
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,800
assurances now than banks do in
some cases like, you know, why'd

493
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,280
you have, you know, why were you
three points down in Q4 last

494
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440
year versus Q3 and blah, blah,
blah.

495
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,080
And it's just like, man, you
know, if my business were

496
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,440
perfect, there's a very good
chance I wouldn't have to be

497
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,880
raising money from you right
now.

498
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,800
So part of it is probably to
cover up some sort of an

499
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,240
inefficiency or a need or
whatever or maybe it's just

500
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,280
growth capital and you know,
whatever.

501
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,200
But so yeah, did you sell that
small business then?

502
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,240
Did somebody?
Buy it I did.

503
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,320
PSAV acquired the assets they
did of that.

504
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,480
There you go, They did they.
Acquired the company and.

505
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Then hired you, They did, yeah.
And then I had some

506
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,960
participation and some of what
that gear did for a period of

507
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,280
time.
So it was a, it was a nice way

508
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,640
to transition into this is a
good place to learn and have

509
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,960
more resources and more access
to talent that I can sort of

510
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,880
leverage in different areas and
that was an amazing learning

511
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,600
experience.
I think the, you know, having it

512
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,520
was my first dip into this is a
bigger company now when I got

513
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:22,120
there they were doing about, I
don't know, probably 150th of

514
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,840
what they're doing now.
So you know, for comparative

515
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,120
scale it was a lot smaller and
you could meet everyone in the

516
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,800
company pretty easily.
I think what what attracted me

517
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,320
to it though was that there was
exactly what you were just

518
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,280
talking about.
There was this level of

519
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:46,000
authenticity and humility that
existed in the gentleman that

520
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,280
reached out to me to say we've
got good momentum here.

521
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,600
We're not sure how to get it to
the next level.

522
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,360
Seems like you might have some
ideas, can we work together?

523
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,120
And that approach changed
everything.

524
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,080
I one of the smartest guys I
ever worked for when he hired

525
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,800
me, I and this will always live
in my memory.

526
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,520
When he was wrapping up his
comments to me, he said and I

527
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:08,800
look forward to learning from
you.

528
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,520
And that is the only time in my
entire history where I've had a

529
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,320
supervisor tell me they looked
forward to learning from me.

530
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,000
And I walked out of that meeting
with so few words, feeling

531
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,880
empowered, lifted up, respected,
valued all the things I couldn't

532
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,680
put a a, a name to in that
moment.

533
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,320
And he did it in one short
phrase.

534
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:33,480
And so that stuck with me.
But.

535
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,400
Why did he see that in you when
all you had done at that point

536
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,640
was grow a tiny little company?
I would like to think he saw

537
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,160
drive and capability.
He saw I was interested and

538
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,200
motivated, and he saw that I'd
brought up enough salient points

539
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,360
that were kind of interesting to
what they were doing that he

540
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,520
thought give it a chance and he
did.

541
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:58,960
I mean, it was he took a chance
well.

542
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,520
And probably also because you
were pissing him off enough to

543
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,520
call you to begin with, right?
So you were a bit of a thorn.

544
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,640
In his.
Side And so anyone who can get

545
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,720
on my nerve like that probably
is someone that I want to have

546
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,560
near me and and get some of that
you know positive energy or

547
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,200
whatever you want to call it,
you know and and learn from that

548
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,240
I guess.
But it's just interesting that

549
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,120
somebody in a company, you know,
I'm guessing 10 or 20 or 30

550
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:35,600
times larger than yours or
bigger was, was looking at it

551
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,640
from a standpoint of bringing
you in to learn from you.

552
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,120
You know you can help us get
from here to here, even though

553
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,160
you've never done anything close
to that in your professional

554
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,760
career until now, right?
So well it's it's very true and

555
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,560
I would say those opportunities
exist out there.

556
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,040
Now you know part of the groups
that I work with and get to

557
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,520
reflect on my own experience
with you talk about these groups

558
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,480
that are in sort of that sub 5
million space or the you know

559
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,000
the five to sort of 25 I find is
an interesting space if you're a

560
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,240
founder LED company and and how
that sort of caps you out.

561
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,680
You know, if you're a founder
LED at 25,000,000, you reach

562
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,880
around and pat yourself on the
back 'cause you are rare, that

563
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,840
is that really tough space to
crawl from, you know, from zero

564
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,600
to five and then 5 to 15 and 15
to 25 and they're, you know,

565
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,840
they're all unique.
And the reason I bring that up

566
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:37,000
is because if you can find the
the attributes that exist for

567
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,920
those companies today, you know
sort of that 10 to 25,000,000

568
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,800
space that's got the Unicorn
DNA, those are your plays.

569
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,360
I mean from my perspective, you
know, if for for the companies

570
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,400
that are looking for something
to build upon, give the right

571
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,120
people a chance because like
that guy gave me a chance as an

572
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,400
individual.
There's some really good small

573
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,760
companies out there that I've
seen go from 10 to 50 in two

574
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,840
years and and they're not alone.
I've seen it happen over and

575
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,240
over.
You just got to pick them

576
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,000
carefully.
Yeah, yeah.

577
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,400
And, you know, so is that luck?
Is that like an ingenious

578
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,600
founder?
What is it?

579
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,000
What is it that makes that those
ones do differently than the

580
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,000
ones that never get from 10 to
15, let alone 50?

581
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,719
Yeah.
I mean, part of it's luck I'd be

582
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,560
lying to.
It's not right to like put 50%

583
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,040
on luck and push that off the
table because that's going to

584
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,520
happen.
It's a blend of art and science,

585
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,679
I think.
So the companies that tend to

586
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:42,080
get there have CEOs, that or
owners who who really value that

587
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,679
sense of authenticity and a
desire to be good, not right.

588
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,840
They want to be good at what
they're doing and not just be

589
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,120
the biggest voice in the room.
I think that's a really

590
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,920
important trait.
The other thing is you have to

591
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,080
have, you have to have DNA
that's clearly understood what

592
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,160
makes your company special to
begin with.

593
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,600
And don't lose that no matter
how many transactions or sales

594
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,040
you do.
You know, my my advice even to

595
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,280
my own clients is don't lose the
DNA that made you special to

596
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,280
begin with.
The the other piece is have

597
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,640
clear market momentum.
Understand what's happening in

598
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,680
the market that that you fit
into that space and and what are

599
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,960
the concrete things that make
you special.

600
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,160
And I'll, I'll give you an
example.

601
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,120
I was talking with a hotel firm
not that long ago and the guy

602
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,040
was telling me, oh we're going
to have the the greatest hotel

603
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,480
on the face of the planet.
It's going to be great.

604
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:40,880
I said cool.
What are you going to do?

605
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,720
He says.
Oh, the lighting in the rooms is

606
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,760
going to be terrific.
The beds are going to be super

607
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,200
comfortable.
It's going to have a a nice desk

608
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,120
where you can sit and work.
And I just looked at him and I

609
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,040
said those are expectations, not
exceptions.

610
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,960
That's that's not exceptional.
That's what we're talking about

611
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,360
people expect.
Yeah, that's that's the Holiday

612
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Inn Express.
Everything you just.

613
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,320
Said.
Exactly.

614
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,200
And and so I think too often
people get wrapped up in their

615
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,360
own Press of why they're so you
know why their company is so

616
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,840
great and and keep that
enthusiasm, keep that drive, but

617
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,920
be realistic about what it is
that gives you your momentum in

618
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,240
a certain space, right.
Like you talk about Holiday Inn,

619
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,480
you know what they do?
Well, they market to the

620
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,440
transient segment that is off
the highway somewhere that is

621
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,640
looking for an economy hotel.
That's a good deal.

622
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,240
And they want it to be clean and
they want breakfast.

623
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,760
You know, there's a finite set
of qualifiers that you can look

624
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,560
at and say, yeah, that works.
So now everything else in your

625
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,200
strategic road map falls in
line.

626
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:45,720
OK.
So we got to be off a main

627
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:49,840
arterial, a big city or a
highway with a certain car

628
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,000
account or these are things you
can quantify, right, You know, a

629
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,720
little deep on it, but but yeah,
that's really it.

630
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,320
I mean, once you unpack the
science of what these companies

631
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,560
are doing, it's it, it becomes
easier to see over time.

632
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,760
Yeah.
No, it's all great points.

633
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,840
But so I mean for you, what was
that like though coming from

634
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,480
running your own small business,
you know, straight out of

635
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,600
school, working in a theater,
doing lighting or doing sound

636
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,840
and then lighting and then
starting your own small lighting

637
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,480
company.
And I'm guessing you probably

638
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,320
built it to three or $4 million
if that and then sold it to

639
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,280
them.
Now all of a sudden you're part

640
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,080
of a relatively large and
rapidly growing company that's

641
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,800
you know about to grow to over a
billion dollars in revenue.

642
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,520
So you know, what was that like?
Like, you know, did you walk in

643
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,440
and go?
I don't know anything.

644
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,800
Like I really need to figure
this stuff out.

645
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,880
I had to walk a very interesting
line.

646
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:03,080
So I was young and that
inherently put me at a bit of

647
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,360
disadvantage with some members
of the teams who who call

648
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,280
themselves as much more seasoned
right.

649
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,720
I I now I I'd you know I always
joke it's it's not the age it's

650
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:17,600
the mileage and I got a lot of
mileage.

651
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,440
So you know and that was true
then.

652
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,680
I mean, I've done a lot of stuff
relatively speaking, even though

653
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:29,400
I was very young.
And so how did I deal with the

654
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,920
the, the relationships with
these folks that have been there

655
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,200
for a long time and that that
was challenging, right?

656
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,360
To not know it all.
But when you did know a lot of

657
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040
things about what was happening,
how did you help productively?

658
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:48,800
And so I got a a a real
education on how to share ideas

659
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,160
and communicate with people in
non threatening ways.

660
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,440
I got, I got an education on how
to break a message down into

661
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,600
pieces.
When somebody's not ready to

662
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,560
hear 100% of it, you know, can I
get them from zero to 25 today

663
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,200
and the next week I'll get them
from 25 to 50% and and so on.

664
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,800
For me, being young, that was a
that was a tough thing, 'cause I

665
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,240
wanted to just board, vomit all
over.

666
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,720
I'm all of the things, and be
like, we got to do it this way

667
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,560
and do it that way.
I'm old and I still do that,

668
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,800
Todd.
I still do that, yeah.

669
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,040
Which I got a funny story to
tell.

670
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,880
You in a in a bit here, but
yeah, yeah, no, I saw.

671
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,240
I think, I think just coming
into it gently and respectfully

672
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,200
was was big.
The other piece is I didn't

673
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,720
understand the matrix structure.
You know, I've never had to go

674
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,840
down the hall to ask permission
to do something.

675
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,040
I just assessed whether or not
it made sense operationally,

676
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,400
financially.
And then I did it.

677
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,080
And this was a situation where I
actually had sort of four bosses

678
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,120
at that point in time.
I had four stakeholders that ran

679
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,520
different venues.
And so I would have to go to

680
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,160
each of them and say hey, is it
OK if I do this?

681
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,960
And you know some of them like
me, some of them didn't.

682
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,880
And and and that played into how
effective I felt like I could be

683
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,840
and.
Well, I was also.

684
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,960
Didn't you change discipline
too?

685
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,680
Like didn't you move from
lighting to rigging, which I

686
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,440
guess are closely married but
not exactly.

687
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,040
I I did.
So I got a call from a different

688
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,960
gentleman, same company after
being with them for I think

689
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:31,480
about maybe two or three years
at that point and I was handling

690
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,720
sales over multiple properties,
event sales for for shows, big

691
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,760
shows.
And he called me and said you

692
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,000
know we know you like lighting
and we saw that you had some

693
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,400
rigging gear.
Would you have any interest in

694
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,720
figuring out how to stand up a
rigging company and I not

695
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:55,440
knowing any better went sure and
you know and and just sort of

696
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,160
really gave it my all.
You know I I focused on how we

697
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,280
would achieve it and how it
would be systematized.

698
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,040
Because what I had learned in
those few years was if it

699
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,440
doesn't have a process it's not
going to work.

700
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,280
It has to have an easily
communicated process to everyone

701
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,760
in the company.
And so here the ask was build a

702
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,480
rigging company inside a company
that has no reputation for doing

703
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,280
that, for a company that doesn't
even have clients.

704
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,960
If they know they want it, they
haven't identified to us that

705
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,480
they want that, right.
And we have no marketing

706
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,920
experience with it.
And by the way, we don't own any

707
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,960
of that equipment.
So we're starting from Ground

708
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,680
Zero, but we got a checkbook and
if you got some ideas, let's

709
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,040
give it a go.
And so that's what I did and

710
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,560
that was how Psav's global
reading services started.

711
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,360
Really was the, you know, the
the not just with me.

712
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,800
I mean I had a team of capable,
brilliant people that that I

713
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,560
worked with in that process.
But yeah, I was the first phone

714
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,360
call and and I just took it on.
You had to have done something

715
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,280
right, you know, prior to that
to impress these guys.

716
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,080
Cuz I can't say you know that
that's exactly how I probably

717
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,280
would have done it.
You know I might have, I might

718
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,360
have gone out and bought a
rigging company and and you know

719
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,920
taking the head of that rigging
company and said OK, you're now

720
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,000
the head of our rigging division
and we're going to build around

721
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,720
you and and the company that
we've acquired and seems to be a

722
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,000
safer path.
But obviously it worked out OK

723
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,360
for them and for you as well.
So they obviously saw something

724
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,080
in you and and you delivered.
I am humbled and grateful by

725
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,680
their trust.
And and and I've told that

726
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,560
gentleman that, you know, he and
I have have talked over the

727
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,600
years and he knows that I
appreciate the chance he took

728
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,000
because looking back, he was a
senior vice president at that

729
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,800
point in time.
That could have been a career

730
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,080
killer for him if he had done
horrible at all, Yeah.

731
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,760
Well, and and you know, there
was no guarantee that like you

732
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,000
said, your customers weren't
begging you to provide rigging

733
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,960
services, your, you know, you
weren't known as a rigging

734
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,640
company, etcetera.
So there's a lot of reasons that

735
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,560
could have failed that weren't
your fault necessarily.

736
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:15,040
But add to that the fact that
you're, you know, quote green in

737
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,480
building a large rigging company
within a larger AV company or

738
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,120
whatever.
So yeah, I mean, wow, that's a

739
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,440
wild story to me.
Like some people might be

740
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,120
listening and going what's
Marcel all excited about here.

741
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:32,040
But you know, it's just such a
risky endeavor from any angle

742
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,080
you look at it.
But the way that they did it was

743
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,320
was remarkable.
And you know, again, I'm, I, I

744
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,640
know it sounds like I'm blowing
smoke up your skirt, but you

745
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,240
know it's true.
Like you did.

746
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:48,800
You did a remarkable thing by
walking into that situation and

747
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,040
within a couple years, going
from being the young, small

748
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,520
company acquisition who didn't
know much about working in a

749
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,640
larger company, knew nothing
about rigging.

750
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:04,080
And now all of a sudden he's
running this huge division and

751
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,080
not only running it, he's
founding it.

752
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,520
He's starting it from the ground
up and putting the team together

753
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,240
and everything else.
So yeah, I mean, wow, that's

754
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,240
that's huge.
That's really cool.

755
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,680
I like it.
Thanks.

756
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,960
Yeah, it was an incredible
experience to do that and you

757
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,400
know being able to proliferate
it all over the place.

758
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,800
You know obviously it started in
the US our first properties that

759
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,040
we picked up doing rigging,
we're actually in Florida and

760
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,400
and so we picked up one in
Florida, we picked up one in

761
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,160
Tennessee and one in Dallas and
I just gave you two states in a

762
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,920
city, sorry about that.
OK, well Nashville, Orlando and

763
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,320
Dallas, how about that.
So you know we picked up these

764
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:49,520
mega properties in each of those
areas and that that was sort of

765
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,040
the you know the shotgun start
to it was well hey we signed a

766
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,960
contract we got to do it now
we're the rigor for these

767
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:01,560
buildings and and so you know
going from all of those I kind

768
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,440
of think of them like like
altitudes now when you talk

769
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,280
about revenue thresholds you
know and and what does everybody

770
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,680
do with those altitudes.
I didn't think of it then.

771
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,520
It was all hands on deck head
down run as fast as you can

772
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,440
right and founder LED mentality
that that's really you know

773
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,760
that's that's how it how it
works right.

774
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,320
And you need that you need that
three Musketeers approach at the

775
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:29,560
beginning for very good reasons.
The transition from small

776
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,480
revenue to hey we're you know
now we're making significantly

777
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,280
more and now we're making a
whole lot And now if the

778
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:42,920
business is hungry gave me a lot
of intricate practice in how to

779
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,280
manage teams how to communicate
with executive stakeholders

780
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,080
inside a company, outside a
company how to distill the

781
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,040
message.
So it was actionable and

782
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,520
relevant.
Really difficult stuff to learn

783
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,720
in a vacuum.
Yeah, yeah.

784
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,640
Nah, that makes so much sense.
That's wild.

785
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,680
No, I love it.
I I mean it's it's an incredible

786
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,960
story And so you know to Long
story short that whole thing.

787
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,920
So you went from start up inside
that company, you know basically

788
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:20,560
it was a start up within a a
large company and you like you

789
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,200
said you had to buy all of the
gear, you didn't have the

790
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,080
inventory to go after these
customers.

791
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,920
I would assume the customers
were customers of yours already

792
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,800
that you were providing other
services and you were just going

793
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,480
in and basically bumping off the
the, the rigging company in

794
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,520
those properties.
That's exactly right.

795
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,160
Yeah.
So you, you were just going

796
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,400
deeper into your own client's
pocket as opposed to going out

797
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,280
and finding new clients, you
were going to existing clients

798
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,080
and just saying, hey, we now
offer this service.

799
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,840
We feel like, you know, we can
package this all together and

800
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,520
make it a really good experience
for you.

801
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,760
And you know, one of the other
things I picked up in your CV,

802
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,160
sorry to keep talking, but this
is just, this is really

803
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:10,600
interesting to me, was that you
also managed to not only be

804
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,400
profitable but constantly
increasing the profits by you

805
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,000
know, getting rid of discounts
and raising prices and things

806
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,720
like that.
So it wasn't like you were just

807
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:23,600
going in muscling people out of
there out of these contracts and

808
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,000
saying we'll do it for half the
price that they're doing or

809
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,040
whatever.
You were probably charging more

810
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,640
than they were charging, but
because of the packaging and

811
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,560
whatever, it just became a
better solution to the client.

812
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,000
It it was.
And I think a lot of that

813
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:42,400
strategy around capturing wallet
share, not unlike, you know some

814
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,840
of the groups that I work with
now is you have to really

815
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,040
understand what the value is.
And I, and I know that's a, it's

816
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,960
such an overused word of, you
know, we're providing value and

817
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,760
what does that mean?
Well, means it means different

818
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:59,400
things to different people.
But I I have found that I don't

819
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,480
know if I would call it a magic
formula, but it's kind of a

820
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,760
magic formula that there's
really four key pieces with a

821
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:11,840
customer that will get you to,
yes, over 90% of the time.

822
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,120
And and the four pieces that
I've found are likability.

823
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,600
Do you like me?
It's not mandatory, but God, it

824
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:21,880
sure helps.
It sure.

825
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,800
Does yeah.
The second some people I.

826
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,320
Don't like at all.
And it's never a good

827
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,080
experience, you know, you always
want to buy from your friends

828
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,360
and yeah.
Yeah, you you want to be chosen,

829
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,880
right?
And chosen goes to that

830
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,440
likability.
You want to, you want to buy

831
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,400
from people you like.
The second is trust.

832
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,320
You trust me.
You know, I think customers ask

833
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,560
themselves that question
unconsciously and that's more a

834
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,080
matter of will you deliver what
you say, will you keep your

835
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,600
word?
Fundamentally when things go

836
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,920
sideways, is there, is there
some confidence I can have in

837
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,880
you there, right.
The third is, do you think I'm

838
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,440
competent?
And that's more a technical

839
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,440
attributes question.
It's more about do you think I

840
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,720
know the business of what it is
that I'm advising you on or or

841
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:08,960
helping you through?
And the 4th is do you think I

842
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,680
can help you?
And help is more nebulous

843
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,440
because it's sort of like going
to the doctor, you know, I'm I'm

844
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,600
not a doctor.
I can go in and say my nose is

845
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,760
runny or I've got a cough or
I've got a fever And then the

846
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,440
doctor diagnosis me, right.
But the doctor helps me is the

847
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,640
important part of that equation.
So I it's it's my opinion.

848
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,520
But I think, you know for a lot
of these these groups like, you

849
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,800
know, like what you're talking
about getting in front of those

850
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,400
customers and going deeper with
them, for them the value was do

851
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,960
you like me?
Do you trust me?

852
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,200
Do you think I know what I'm
doing and do you think I can

853
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,520
help you?
And when we got that to hit, we

854
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:47,920
had that leverage to do those
other.

855
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:52,320
Things Oh, that's very good,
very good, makes a ton of sense.

856
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,360
And you know I think I think all
four of those so many companies

857
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,720
fail on either trying to hit
those benchmarks or just don't

858
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,360
even really think about that
kind of stuff.

859
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,120
Like you said, they just run as
fast as they can and and which

860
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,080
is sustainable to a point.
You know, it's like I, I look at

861
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,040
our industry, especially sort of
the rock'n'roll side of our

862
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,600
industry since COVID and all of
that stuff, All of the good

863
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,560
practices, all of the the, you
know, really strong values as a

864
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,720
company and stuff.
Most of that has gone out the

865
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:30,920
window and everyone just ran as
fast as they could because there

866
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,600
was just so much business flying
around and all you needed was

867
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,000
basically a catcher's Mitt and
you could catch as much as as

868
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,880
you could handle, right.
And and then all of the

869
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,520
shortages of people and
equipment and everything else

870
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,600
came into play.
But but, you know, I feel like

871
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,200
that's like Chinese food.
You know, it goes away really

872
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,640
quickly.
Like you have to have really

873
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,680
strong foundation, really strong
fundamentals in your business or

874
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,480
else you know, you're you're
either going to, you know, do

875
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,360
this hockey stick up with with
market conditions.

876
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,360
And those are not because you're
a great company.

877
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,680
Those are because the market's
great and then you're going to

878
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,240
start seeing it go down on the
other end when when that market

879
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,000
condition turns back to where it
was previously.

880
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,560
And so you know if it were a
normal stable market, you would

881
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,040
just continue to try and improve
your business and and to hit

882
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,080
those fundamentals and and pay
attention to the reasons that

883
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,240
people want to buy from you and
all of those types of things.

884
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:32,600
So, like I I've always tried to
be disciplined in good times and

885
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:37,480
bad, and I've failed, you know,
many times I've failed.

886
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,240
But I've always tried to use the
same discipline when things are

887
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:44,280
really good as when things are
really tough.

888
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,360
Like you don't just tighten your
belt when you can't afford

889
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,800
payroll, You tighten your belt
when money's flying from the sky

890
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,920
and stuff, and you make sure
that you've got good solid

891
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,080
practices then.
And I know I'm I'm singing to

892
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,200
the choir here, but.
You make a powerful point

893
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,120
though.
One of the key indicators to me

894
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,120
when I'm involved with a new
group is if I see Aceo in fear

895
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:14,200
we have a major problem That's a
you know the the fear based

896
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:18,360
management and some people look
at that as being the abrasive

897
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,120
over the top controlling type
personality and it and it can

898
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:27,120
mean that the the other thing it
can mean is they may not have

899
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,160
the depth of experience to solve
the problem that's in front of

900
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,880
them and they won't include
other people in a way that's

901
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,920
meaningful to help them do that.
And that's you know that's a

902
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:44,680
really, yeah, that's a that's a
a a difficult thing to overcome.

903
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,520
You know sort of to your point
being stable in good times and

904
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,760
in bad And that that lets me
know a lot about the state of

905
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,800
someone's experience right.
Calm waters.

906
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,840
Run deep.
If you've got somebody who's

907
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,800
jumping all over the place
making knee jerk reactions to

908
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,680
things, it's a pretty good
indicator that they haven't been

909
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,640
through that before.
And it's not a criticism, right?

910
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,920
If they haven't learned it, they
can't know the answer.

911
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:10,640
Absolutely.
So.

912
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,720
Absolutely.
I completely agree with you.

913
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:19,400
So you your your title when when
you in your last days or last

914
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,160
years at psav was VP of Global
OPS and rigging or something

915
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,680
right?
Yeah.

916
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,520
So over my tenure there, I
started the rigging services

917
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,960
division as you know we talked
about and then we also did a

918
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,000
lighting services group and a
Power Distribution services

919
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,120
group, all of which I I had a
founding hand in it at some

920
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,920
point in time, managed and then
handed off.

921
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:47,360
So we we repeated that recipe a
few times, but but yeah.

922
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,000
So what are, what are?
I'm curious about this cause

923
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,800
again I've never managed to
build past a certain point I'm

924
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,640
trying to right now and I hope
to get there.

925
00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:03,840
But what are some of the unique
problems or challenges of first

926
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:08,920
of all starting a company within
a larger company like that and

927
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,600
within that culture and within
that, you know, because I know

928
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,240
resources aren't a problem, but
what are the problems when

929
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:19,560
you're when you're trying to
start a company in that

930
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:25,320
situation and then you know
being the head of a division

931
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,680
where you're basically running
your own company within a

932
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,280
company.
What are some of the challenges

933
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,160
to that as well running it?
Yeah.

934
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:39,120
So, so standing up and operating
a big business unit under a

935
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,560
portfolio company for a private
equity firm, right, because it's

936
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,480
really what we're talking about.
I think keep me honest, if

937
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,320
that's if I'm understanding your
question right.

938
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:51,920
But these these big companies,
there's a few things right from

939
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,600
the jump that I think are very
important #1 have the patience

940
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,600
to know what you're talking
about first.

941
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,880
There's a lot of people that you
will meet in your first

942
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,360
orientation and 1st go around
with these big companies that

943
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,400
will be probably 20% of who you
ultimately need to meet to make

944
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,480
your business unit successful.
And so I I guess the first thing

945
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:19,360
is seek first to understand,
know what you're talking about.

946
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,440
Get a lay of the land,
understand who does what,

947
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:26,760
Understand what the company's
DNA is, what's the special sauce

948
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,680
that makes them important to
their customers.

949
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,720
Get your arms around what the
culture is and know it inside

950
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:34,000
out.
I think those are that's sort of

951
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,360
the very first place that I
start when I'm looking in, in

952
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,520
those environments, you know
both then and now the, you know,

953
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,560
the 2nd place that I go is to
try to understand the the

954
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:51,080
receptiveness of the audience
and how palatable the project is

955
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,920
to the organization.
How big is this on the

956
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,440
organization?
You know, is the organization

957
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:01,520
having some cash flow issues and
this is a play because they need

958
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,440
to grow their business and
they're not sure where to

959
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,640
invest?
Or is there already momentum in

960
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,760
a certain direction and they're
trying to stand up a business

961
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,480
unit to get more wallet share?
Or is this a completely new

962
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,960
innovative idea that's come to
them from a specific subset of

963
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,960
their customers that they're
trying to take care of?

964
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,200
Cause strategically, those are
important customers and those

965
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,320
are all three different answers.
So I think no.

966
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:30,120
On that topic though, Todd, so
when you're starting a company

967
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,000
or a division inside a company
like that, are there

968
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:40,600
expectations already completely
set and hard or is it like you

969
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,280
know do your best, let's see
where we can get in the first

970
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,760
year.
Like I know that that's kind of

971
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,800
a silly question because I think
any company that size especially

972
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,200
backed by private equity, they
they have very, very strict

973
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,520
expectations.
Like it's like yeah you better

974
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,760
hit this in Q1.
But when you're starting

975
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,200
something up, is there a little
bit of room to to to live within

976
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,000
that if if you don't hit right
out of the first quarter?

977
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:08,240
Can go both ways.
Yeah, you're right.

978
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,160
There's a financial modeling
process that happens up front.

979
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,600
How much are we going to spend?
What are we going to get for it?

980
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,360
Yeah, and and that's the buy in
that you'll wind up getting from

981
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,720
ownership or executive
management.

982
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,280
So it that sets the stage for
what's going to happen.

983
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:30,440
Now I have had it go both ways.
I've had large companies that

984
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,200
saw a lot of momentum and effort
and they were comfortable with

985
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,520
the investment and they
understood the good work that

986
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,000
was happening.
And so they said, yeah, let's

987
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,800
keep going, We missed it, but
you know we're making good

988
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,760
progress and let, let's use that
to inform the next phase of

989
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,120
budgeting.
Let's use that to inform our

990
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:53,040
CapEx process or our, our people
process who do we need to hire

991
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,440
into these role.
They use it as a learning tool.

992
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,560
There are organizations who
sometimes use it as more of a

993
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,720
criticism tool, and I and I so,
so yes to both.

994
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:05,520
Interesting.
Yeah.

995
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,400
Because, you know, it's funny
like you look at a large a

996
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,080
billion dollar company for
example, and I'm just pulling a

997
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:15,240
number out of the sky.
But for them to create a

998
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,840
division that they've got to go
out and spend $20 million on

999
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,040
inventory for example, I'm not
saying it's a drop in the

1000
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,480
bucket, but it's not something
that's going to put them out of

1001
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,400
business, right.
Whereas small business operators

1002
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,000
in our industry will go, that's
a really cool product.

1003
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,320
I think I could build a business
around that.

1004
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,880
I'm going to buy a hundred of
them and they do it on a whim,

1005
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,840
you know, on a gut feeling that
they're going to be able to turn

1006
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,760
that profitable.
And I, you know, maybe that's

1007
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,080
just a lack of discipline.
Maybe that's, I don't know, like

1008
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:53,280
I guess large companies are
always a little more, you know,

1009
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:58,440
structured and and assure of
themselves.

1010
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,560
I guess I don't know what the
what the word would be, but

1011
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:06,480
yeah.
There there's one severely

1012
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,920
positive motivator that happens
and you talk about between big

1013
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,880
companies and small companies,
right drop in the bucket versus

1014
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,760
maybe a big investment.
But they do it almost

1015
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,560
whimsically sometimes because
it's you know it's there's not a

1016
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,440
process and or they don't know
the process which is is also

1017
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,560
what happens.
So what I personally think is

1018
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,200
the best approach for both
actually is get the right

1019
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:35,800
subject matter expert involved
who also has business expertise

1020
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,520
to model it out to help inform
what the budget is.

1021
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,720
So here's what usually happens.
You have from a a large company

1022
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,800
standpoint, there's a lot of
stakeholders who are creating

1023
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,040
the financial budgets and ROI
statements for whatever they're

1024
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:51,840
about to take on, right?
Maybe it's an annual budget,

1025
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,720
maybe it's a new business unit.
They're standing up. 80% of the

1026
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,480
stakeholders in that
conversation don't come from our

1027
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,120
industry or don't have subject
matter expertise.

1028
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,760
That's not as a criticism,
That's just a statement of

1029
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,720
observation.
The reason that's important is

1030
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,520
because it's exactly the
opposite.

1031
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,240
In small founder LED companies,
you often have the person who

1032
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,000
has the technical expertise.
That's what made them special to

1033
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,240
begin with, right?
I'm running a lighting company.

1034
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,080
I love lighting.
I have a lighting company that

1035
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,800
that sells to these customers,
'cause that's what I know how to

1036
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,040
do.
It's already natural for them.

1037
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,720
Now where they're weaker is on
the business expertise.

1038
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,920
Yeah.
If you can bring those two

1039
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,640
things together, somebody that
understands technically what the

1040
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:39,960
product is, that understands our
industry deeply and that that

1041
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:44,480
has the the business acumen to
put it all together and say you

1042
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,280
know what, here's a realistic
investment amount and a

1043
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:52,360
realistic budget and a realistic
timeline, it goes much better

1044
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,360
like that.
And sometimes that happens, but

1045
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,360
I would say that's more rare.
I I would love to see more of

1046
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,800
that happen with.
Yeah, organizations, yeah.

1047
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,200
And so, you know, I've built a a
global company, a small company,

1048
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,040
but we do business in 100
countries or more.

1049
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:15,400
And so I've had to learn you
know, culture and different

1050
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,360
doing business in different
currencies, different financial

1051
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,400
models, different whatever it is
taxation.

1052
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,600
So it's been challenging, I will
tell you that it it for a small

1053
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,240
company it's you have to be
careful that when you go into a

1054
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:35,240
country you don't just lose
money based on you know like

1055
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,840
just dealing with their taxation
or laws or being compliant or

1056
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,720
whatever.
So for you was that challenging

1057
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,880
like I I'm guessing prior to
this job you had never done

1058
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,200
business outside the country,
outside the US So what were some

1059
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,520
of your lessons learned along
the way?

1060
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,600
Two really big ones.
The first was understanding that

1061
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:07,160
as a society, Americans have
more of a Walmart culture.

1062
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,440
And what I mean by that is we
take value from going one place

1063
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:16,040
and getting all the things we
are as a society very influenced

1064
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,600
by one stop shop.
That's important to us.

1065
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,720
Other countries see that as
diminished value because they

1066
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,560
see it as generalist and not
specialist.

1067
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,720
And when you're talking about
things in audio, visual

1068
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,800
entertainment or especially
higher risk disciplines, power

1069
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:42,680
rigging, automation, they really
don't buy from generalist

1070
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,920
companies.
There's not, there's not a a

1071
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,680
thing that sort of existed then.
I mean it's working its way a

1072
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:52,240
little more now, but you think
about how Europe, for instance

1073
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,680
is set up.
You can still go to a bakery and

1074
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,200
get a loaf of bread.
And when I think of the last

1075
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,840
probably 100 times I've bought a
loaf of bread, I bought it at a,

1076
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,080
you know, a Walmart or a grocery
store that had loads of other

1077
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,640
products with it, right.
I never just went to a specialty

1078
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:14,160
store, but I think the the first
lesson for me was whatever

1079
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:19,440
business model you stand up,
make sure that it that it hits

1080
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,560
the specialist focus that will
win the business in other

1081
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:28,160
countries and it can't be a
generalist focus because that is

1082
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,120
really more tuned toward the
United States crowd the such.

1083
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,640
An amazing point like I I
definitely I love that and you

1084
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,560
know what like as you're saying
it I'm going that's so obvious

1085
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,120
because I mean I've traveled the
world I've I've always seen that

1086
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:47,480
I talk about it all the time
when it comes to food and and

1087
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,440
other things.
You know like you go to the

1088
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,680
butcher for your meat and you go
to the the vegetable guy for

1089
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,240
your vegetables you go to you
know and I love that because the

1090
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,560
food is always fresher.
They always seem to know exactly

1091
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,800
when you should buy what
different types of fruit or

1092
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,840
whatever, and but I never
thought of it that way in our

1093
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,440
business.
But it's totally true.

1094
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:09,600
It's totally true.
It's a much more special,

1095
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,680
specialized approach and I love
that.

1096
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,480
Great answer.
What was #2?

1097
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,320
Sorry. #2 is about making
assumptions.

1098
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:20,840
You know, I've been plenty of
pace places.

1099
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:26,240
I've I've done business in the
Middle East and Asia and Europe

1100
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:31,520
and they all have their own sort
of nuances to them.

1101
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,040
But I found that pretty
universally everybody, and this

1102
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,880
is more philosophical, they want
the right to live in safety.

1103
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:46,280
They want the right to worship
or not worship as they see fit,

1104
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,520
sort of a, you know a freedom of
of religion or political

1105
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:56,120
alignment if you will.
And they want to achieve success

1106
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:58,880
however they define it.
You know, for some people it's

1107
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:03,440
just paying for, you know, a
nice meal out for their family

1108
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,520
or being able to pay for their
kids schooling or however they

1109
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,280
define it.
But the reason I share that is

1110
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,440
because I found myself when I
was traveling internationally a

1111
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,360
lot, starting these different
business units all over the

1112
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,440
world, having my own
preconceived ideas, having been

1113
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:27,240
only a party to sort of the new
cycle that I see in the US.

1114
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,200
Not positive or negative
necessarily, but there were

1115
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:35,840
pieces that were not shared
that, you know, that might not

1116
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:37,760
be interesting to the general
populace.

1117
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,160
But as I was spending more time
in those regions, they became a

1118
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,240
very high interest for me.
I'll tell you a quick story

1119
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,760
about that.
So I had assumed that on my

1120
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,760
first trip to the Middle East,
everybody would have this sort

1121
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:58,000
of, I don't know, animus toward
United States citizens, that

1122
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,760
there would be this friction or
it was just it was my

1123
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,280
perception.
It wasn't based on any real life

1124
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:07,840
experience first hand.
It was just purely based on what

1125
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:13,000
I thought I had seen or heard or
learned in my growing up years

1126
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:18,520
in the United States.
So I was in the UAE in the old

1127
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,000
part of Dubai and thought I
would go check out one of the

1128
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,520
spice market there, just because
it was something fun to do one

1129
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:30,080
afternoon.
And so I walked over and I found

1130
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:36,320
myself down this dirt lined
corridor and old sort of mud

1131
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,840
brick buildings, very cool.
And these little tiny shops that

1132
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:42,680
had two steps up on either side
of me.

1133
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,200
So I'm in this, this corridor
that's this wide and there's

1134
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,480
probably, I don't know, 40
little shops all the way down.

1135
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,600
It's got a cover over the top of
it that's sort of this colorful

1136
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:56,360
fabric just to block the sun and
charming in its own way.

1137
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,480
And so I walked a little ways in
and I found the shop that had

1138
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,840
spices just of every variety.
I had no idea what these things

1139
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,120
were.
I just thought they were cool.

1140
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,480
And I'll get some spices and
I'll bring them home when I I

1141
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:09,840
don't know.
I thought I would make something

1142
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:10,840
good with it.
Right.

1143
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,120
I was.
I was fooling myself in the

1144
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,360
moment, but that was the hope.
And so I walked into the shop

1145
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,480
and the the shopkeeper came
right up to me.

1146
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:23,960
How can I help you?
I said I'd like a mix of

1147
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,160
something that's spicy, that I
could use on like chicken or

1148
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,040
beef.
And he said, you like spicy.

1149
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,200
Yeah, yeah, really spicy is
great, he said.

1150
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,160
Can I make you a Curry?
That sounds great.

1151
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:40,040
So he pulls out this little kind
of shovel looking thing and and

1152
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:41,920
he's whipping it in there.
He's throwing all these

1153
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,240
different spices in the bag and
shakes it up and it's, I mean

1154
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,480
it's 12 different colors inside
the thing.

1155
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,800
Really cool.
And so I thanked him and I start

1156
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,640
to leave and and he goes, you
have blue eyes.

1157
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:58,000
And I and I never had another
man tell me I had blue eyes.

1158
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,760
So you know, that got my
attention first of all.

1159
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:04,760
But I said I I do.
And he said, where are you from?

1160
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:06,680
I said I'm from the United
States.

1161
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,560
And he goes, America, never been
there.

1162
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,680
And he starts telling me this
great story about how he grew up

1163
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,880
in Iran that was, you know, not
very far from where I was

1164
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,960
standing.
And his family ran this orchard.

1165
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,880
And he'd grown up sort of
running through the oranges in

1166
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:28,960
his childhood and this view of,
of Iran that I had never heard,

1167
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:30,520
that I had never experienced.
Right.

1168
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,800
And he calls his brother and
yells to him from the back, and

1169
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,800
his brother comes running in and
shakes my hand and you know,

1170
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:40,120
this, this was a big thing for
them to, I guess, to meet an

1171
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,319
American.
And so we talked for a few

1172
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:46,080
minutes and I and he stopped
suddenly, And he just looks at

1173
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,120
me concerned, and he puts his
hand on my shoulder and he says,

1174
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:56,160
Americans, we're friends, right?
And it was in that moment I knew

1175
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:01,520
that the assumptions that I've
had about going to the region or

1176
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,279
the assumptions that I thought
they would have about me were

1177
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:08,399
wildly wrong.
The reality was he didn't have

1178
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:10,319
any preconceived ideas of who I
was.

1179
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:13,399
And so I looked at what I I
said, what was true for me.

1180
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:16,680
I said you and I are friends.
I think it was a sting, OK?

1181
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,520
And this big look of relief.
But yeah, anyway, it was it was

1182
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,160
kind of a one of those moments
you don't forget.

1183
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:24,439
You know, I think Todd, that
part of that was because you

1184
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,920
were kind of off the beaten path
and and you know down the back

1185
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,000
Rd. and all that kind of stuff.
Because I think in the more

1186
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,279
touristy areas, like one of the
things I learned when I started

1187
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:38,240
traveling the world was I always
grew up assuming.

1188
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,960
Because I think this is what the
media told me at the time and

1189
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:46,279
stuff, was just that everyone
wanted our lifestyle, everyone

1190
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:51,200
wanted Levi's jeans, and they
wanted to live like Americans

1191
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,680
and they wanted to act like
Americans and look like

1192
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,360
Americans and everything else,
right?

1193
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,080
And then I get over there and
they're like, you know, you

1194
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:00,000
people are all assholes
basically.

1195
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,000
Like, you know, I don't want to
be you.

1196
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,920
You're an asshole.
And like I just, I started to

1197
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:10,560
realize, you know, we're not as
loved as I I might have thought

1198
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:11,680
we were.
Perhaps.

1199
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,920
So it's almost the exact
opposite.

1200
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:18,520
But but this was probably in
more like, I don't care what

1201
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,040
country you're in, if you, if
you're an American.

1202
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,560
And and you know, for periods of
time I travel as an American.

1203
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,160
Sometimes when it's a little
heated, I travel as a Canadian,

1204
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:31,680
'cause I have both passports and
but sometimes, like, I mean no

1205
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,840
matter where you are, if you're
in Italy, if you're in France,

1206
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,000
if you're in whatever country
and you're sort of off the

1207
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,600
beaten path in the country,
you're in smaller towns.

1208
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,520
They love Americans, everyone,
you know, we treat them well.

1209
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,520
We tip, we we, you know, we're
we're generally pretty friendly.

1210
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:51,120
But yeah, that's that's such an
another interesting story.

1211
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,080
I love that, you know, the the
spice thing.

1212
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:56,360
Yeah.
So you're friends?

1213
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,880
You got a friend over there now?
Yeah, right.

1214
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:00,600
Apparently Random Orange
Orchard.

1215
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,640
How was the spice?
Oh, it was great.

1216
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,880
It was.
Not been able, 'cause sometimes

1217
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:08,080
they try and nail you when you
go.

1218
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,680
I like really hot.
And they go, OK, I'll show you

1219
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,400
really hot.
You want really hot.

1220
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,080
Yours Really hot.
It was.

1221
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:15,960
It was warm.
I mean, growing up in Arizona,

1222
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:20,680
my comfort food is Mexican food.
So spicy Cenoran food is kind of

1223
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,480
my jam.
Yeah, yeah.

1224
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:24,960
I mean, I just remember when I
was first getting into Indian

1225
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,400
food and I'd go to like these
really authentic Indian places

1226
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,800
and I go, I like really hot and
they'd.

1227
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,480
Be like OK.
All right.

1228
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,400
You know, and I mean, I couldn't
even get it close to my face,

1229
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:37,160
let alone in my mouth.
I was sweating when it was

1230
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,960
about, you know, about here,
like about a foot away from my

1231
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:41,040
face.
I was sweating.

1232
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,880
And you know, I've gotten a
little more used to it now, But

1233
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,400
well, and then actually what
happens is I think you go like

1234
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,600
this where spice, spice, spice,
more spice, more spice.

1235
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,680
And then all of a sudden you
kind of hit a ceiling as you get

1236
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,760
a bit older and you go, oh,
spice really gives me a stomach

1237
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,840
ache and stuff.
Like, I can't eat this like I

1238
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,480
used to.
So yeah, I'm kind of on the

1239
01:11:59,480 --> 01:12:02,400
downswing now on spices.
I don't get things quite as hot

1240
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,200
as I used to.
Yeah.

1241
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:08,440
Do you know Robert Mochrie?
I know Robert Mochrie's a

1242
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,800
rock'n'roll lighting guy, worked
for high end for a number of

1243
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:17,360
years, but he lives in Austin,
TX and he is one of those guys

1244
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,600
that the hotter the pepper, he
didn't care.

1245
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,440
Like, give me the hot, what kind
of Peppers you got.

1246
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,040
I'll have those ones.
Give him give me a fork.

1247
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:26,240
I'm just going to eat it with a
fork.

1248
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,360
And you know, he'd try and get
me to try some of these things.

1249
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,840
And I like hot food.
But there's you guys in Arizona

1250
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,280
and these guys in Texas and
stuff.

1251
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,800
There are some Peppers that are
just, like, violent.

1252
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,080
Those should not be legal, Some
of those.

1253
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:46,360
So yeah, so that's a really cool
story.

1254
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:51,160
And so I mean it.
You have such a personality

1255
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,920
where I can't see you being too
offensive to too many people.

1256
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,040
So I would think that regardless
of the culture that you're

1257
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,000
walking into, you're going to be
very respectful.

1258
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,640
You're going to make sure that
you're inclusive with those

1259
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:10,320
people, you're going to try and
do business on their terms, you

1260
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,200
know, to whatever extent you
can.

1261
01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:16,560
As far as going into different
countries, I mean, so I'm

1262
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,280
guessing you didn't run into a
lot of trouble.

1263
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,760
No, not, not too much, not
trouble.

1264
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,800
I didn't cause for myself, you
know, like sand boarding and

1265
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,880
Oman, I really busted my ass up
on that.

1266
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,600
It was a good time.
I do it again, you know, like

1267
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,560
you're on a snowboard kind of a
thing and you go down the dunes

1268
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:36,720
and.
It was blast.

1269
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:41,320
Oh, my God, it was a blast.
The problem was, the guy just

1270
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,120
kept telling me how easy it was,
but he didn't tell me how to

1271
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:45,800
stop.
He's like, yeah, just just lean

1272
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:46,520
over.
It's fine.

1273
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,080
Like, you know, you don't need a
plan to stop.

1274
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:50,080
Just lean over.
It'll stop on its own kind of a

1275
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,720
thing.
Oh, yeah, I leaned over.

1276
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,680
All right man, I was banged up
and bruised up and.

1277
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,920
So yeah, I certainly had
snowboarding before or.

1278
01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:04,960
Once, which I thought I would be
qualified to like snowboard in

1279
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:08,200
the Omani desert is beyond me.
But, you know, I was.

1280
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:12,640
Well, you know, I could I bet
just because AI grew up a

1281
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,160
skateboarder and then you know,
like I'm just, I've been skiing

1282
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:17,520
my whole life and all those
things.

1283
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:23,280
So like I sometimes when I'm on,
you know, gravelly sort of shale

1284
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,600
kind of bottom of a mountain
kind of things like I'll ski

1285
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,760
down just on my shoes, I'll,
I'll parallel back and forth or

1286
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,400
whatever.
And you know I just have really

1287
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,120
good balance for those things.
So I don't think it would bother

1288
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:39,920
me too much, but snowboarding,
everyone always says it's a

1289
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,320
three day learning thing.
Like it's not two, it's not one,

1290
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:47,960
it's not seven, it's three days.
On the third day the lights are

1291
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,600
all going to go green and you're
going to be like, I get this, I

1292
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:53,120
understand and you're not going
to fall so much anymore.

1293
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:55,080
But the first three days are
brutal.

1294
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,200
That's that's funny.
That's exactly what happened for

1295
01:14:58,200 --> 01:14:59,960
me.
And I think it was on the third

1296
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:03,400
day that I finally was having a
good time and I was OK and and

1297
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:05,000
then I never went again.
But it was super fun.

1298
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:09,720
I don't know why.
Yeah, I'm more of a skier and

1299
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,920
you know, I'm actually getting
and I hate to say this and or

1300
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,680
admit it out loud, but I'm
getting to an age where it's

1301
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:19,720
getting harder to ski because I
ski at a very high level and I'm

1302
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:21,400
not bragging.
I've just been skiing since I

1303
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:25,160
was a little kid.
I grew up in Western Canada, but

1304
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,120
when you can't ski often.
So in other words I might go

1305
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:34,360
skiing for four or five days a
year at this point, whereas the

1306
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,280
people I'm skiing with go 100
days a year.

1307
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,720
And so I'm just not in the
condition that I need to be in.

1308
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,920
Like I exercise every day, but I
don't ski every day like these

1309
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,720
guys, right?
So it's it's just it's really

1310
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,520
hard and what happens is you ski
one really good run where you're

1311
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:52,880
you're feeling great and you
look good and you're doing all

1312
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,200
the right stuff.
The next one gets a little bit

1313
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,280
harder.
The third run down, your legs

1314
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,080
are starting to feel like Jello
already.

1315
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:03,560
And then you either go sit in
the in the lounge and drink beer

1316
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:07,840
the rest of the afternoon or or
you know, you just say, you know

1317
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:08,880
what?
I'm done.

1318
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:11,320
I've had four runs.
I'm, I'm done for the day.

1319
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:12,360
That's it.
I'm going to quit.

1320
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,520
And so yeah, it's just getting
harder.

1321
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:19,280
I either have to commit and ski
a lot more or just say you know

1322
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,840
what, maybe I'll find another
hobby, I don't know, but I do

1323
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,280
love it and I have a house up
there.

1324
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,080
I have a house up in the
mountains where skiing is very

1325
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,880
nearby.
So yeah, it's pretty fun.

1326
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:38,520
So, so in 2020, was it COVID
related that you left or or was

1327
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,200
that just coincidental?
Yeah.

1328
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:46,680
So the, I mean the shutdown of
the industry was was felt

1329
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:51,080
everywhere, right.
And and so at that point in time

1330
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:58,400
still PSAV felt it like everyone
did and got down to a very small

1331
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,880
number of sort of full time
folks hit pause on most of their

1332
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:08,920
operations.
And the, you know prior to that

1333
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:14,320
there had been a number of
opportunities that had been in

1334
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:17,240
the back of my mind that I
thought, gosh, I think I could

1335
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:20,440
really help with that or I think
I could really make a difference

1336
01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:22,920
there.
And they were things that I

1337
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:27,120
hadn't put myself all into for
obvious reasons, right.

1338
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,400
You know, you sort of heard
where you are and you're working

1339
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:32,880
the full time job and you don't,
you don't focus outside a lot.

1340
01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:36,760
And so that was the first time
of being home, sitting in a

1341
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:38,200
chair, sitting in this chair
actually.

1342
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:41,880
And I kind of looked up at the
ceiling and I thought to myself,

1343
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:43,680
what would you do if you could
do anything?

1344
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,960
And I remember the thing that
hit me at that moment was I like

1345
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,160
helping people.
And then of course my next

1346
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:52,800
thought was, yeah, that's really
great.

1347
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,760
Todd, how do you make money
helping people?

1348
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:59,440
That sounds a little bit owl pie
and that you know and you know,

1349
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:02,120
but the more I thought about it,
the more I I thought what are

1350
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:03,680
the things I've enjoyed doing
most?

1351
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:06,960
I've enjoyed building
businesses, I've enjoyed change

1352
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:11,600
management in businesses and you
know helping them go through an

1353
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:17,400
acquisition or sale process and
these are things that that I've

1354
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:21,520
done many times over.
And so it was a comfort zone,

1355
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,840
yes.
But it was also something that I

1356
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,760
enjoyed getting that phone call
after it saying thanks a lot,

1357
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:28,880
couldn't have done it without
you.

1358
01:18:29,480 --> 01:18:33,520
That meant a lot to me.
And I wanted more of that and

1359
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:41,720
less less of the sometimes.
Values that didn't resonate as

1360
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:46,120
much for me that sometimes come
out in large ownership groups

1361
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:51,440
where people sometimes are are
you know, not, not specific to

1362
01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:55,120
any group, but I I think it's
fair to say money is the biggest

1363
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:58,240
part of the equation.
Growth, growth, growth, right.

1364
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:03,360
But sometimes do things that are
very short term action and cause

1365
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,840
a lot of long term harm.
And so I felt myself on this

1366
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:12,120
treadmill of we were knee jerk
reacting short term, but what we

1367
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:15,840
really needed to do was pull our
head up from the desk, see over

1368
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,480
the horizon and start planting
some seeds there.

1369
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:23,080
And so that's that that was that
was when I just said you know

1370
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,120
what, I'm going to do this, I'm
going to, I'm consulting, feels

1371
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,240
like a four letter word.
You know I think of myself more

1372
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:32,200
like a seamless part of
someone's team is, is how I more

1373
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,400
like to operate.
But that helping people is

1374
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:38,280
valuable to me.
Yeah, no, that's amazing.

1375
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:45,160
And so, I mean, did anyone go?
But Todd, you're starting a, I'm

1376
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,160
going to call it consulting
business because I don't know

1377
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,680
how to call it a helping people,
you know, blah blah, blah

1378
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:51,360
business.
But so.

1379
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:55,120
So you're starting a consulting
business in the live events

1380
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:58,240
slash AV industry.
During COVID.

1381
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:03,080
Yeah, during COVID, like a lot
of people need help, but not a

1382
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:06,760
lot of people are are interested
in in paying for outside

1383
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,560
contractors at that point I
would guess.

1384
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:14,400
Yeah, well, it's funny, it
wasn't my first go to I was

1385
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:15,840
going to make a career
transition.

1386
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:19,960
So my first aspiration was I
wanted to be an airline pilot

1387
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,280
and got dissuaded from doing
that early on about the same

1388
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:29,240
years I was telling you about in
in high school by some folks who

1389
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:31,120
were flying for American and
Delta.

1390
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:33,720
And they basically said, don't
waste your time, kid.

1391
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,120
You're not in the military.
You're not gonna get the flight

1392
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:37,920
hours.
You don't have a shot against

1393
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:39,440
the rest of us who are far more
seen.

1394
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,040
And he didn't mean it bad.
He was, I think he was giving me

1395
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,040
what he thought was sage advice.
Well, what ultimately happened

1396
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:50,520
was the the housing crisis.
And then you had a lot of pilots

1397
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,880
who retired out of the industry
or, you know, by either by

1398
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:59,000
choice or by force, And and then
there was a huge shortage.

1399
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,600
So the greatest irony is, it
probably would have been

1400
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:02,560
perfect.
Timing.

1401
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:04,640
No kidding, right?
Right.

1402
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:08,800
That said, I I I don't regret
that at all.

1403
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:13,480
But what was funny to me is I,
you know, years later did finish

1404
01:21:13,480 --> 01:21:16,040
out my license.
And I thought to myself, oh,

1405
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,800
maybe this is the moment I'll go
fly charters.

1406
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:20,760
That's what I'll do.
That's, you know, this will be

1407
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:22,960
the moment to change.
Well, and of course there's no

1408
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:24,760
planes in the sky.
You know, the pandemic is

1409
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:28,240
because there's nobody traveling
and groups can't gather and you

1410
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:31,040
can't be in confined spaces.
And so I I remember sort of

1411
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,920
laughing to myself thinking
geez, Todd, you know how to pick

1412
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:35,480
them, don't you?
Like you pick the people that

1413
01:21:35,480 --> 01:21:38,360
require people getting together
to to do it.

1414
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:41,160
So.
So I leaned in on the event

1415
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,200
side.
I, I, you know, really loved the

1416
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,280
values of that.
I know a lot of people in these

1417
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,400
industries that, you know, that
brings a certain measure of of

1418
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,680
what I enjoy.
I I like visiting with people.

1419
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:56,520
And so I used that as a time to
build.

1420
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,960
I used it as a time to learn.
And and you're right, there were

1421
01:21:59,960 --> 01:22:02,960
a lot of people that you know
that said, boy, we don't have

1422
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:07,600
the money to to to bring on
somebody to, you know, to coach

1423
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,520
us through some of this or be
sort of a fractional executive

1424
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:14,800
and add bandwidth to our
projects the moment.

1425
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:16,920
But we might need that down the
road.

1426
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:19,960
And you know, we're looking for
somebody who won't make us look

1427
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:22,840
stupid in front of our clients
and has a lot of history doing

1428
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:24,840
the stuff.
So that would be a good person

1429
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:26,200
for us to be able to reach out
to.

1430
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:28,640
And that's ultimately sort of
what happened.

1431
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,760
It was, you know, seed planting
and then the seeds started

1432
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:33,480
coming up.
Well, and I would guess, you

1433
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:37,400
know, I wouldn't guess, I'm, I'm
quite positive that you earned

1434
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:40,320
OK at PSAV.
So you weren't in, you weren't

1435
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,480
in, you didn't have pressure to
do something instantly.

1436
01:22:43,480 --> 01:22:47,120
You had you know the the benefit
of some time to make a decision,

1437
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:51,040
a good decision and the pilot
thing.

1438
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:52,880
So you said you finished your
license.

1439
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,320
So what level of of license do
you have?

1440
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:56,760
Like what?
What can you fly?

1441
01:22:57,480 --> 01:23:01,960
So I'm an instrument rated pilot
and would be about 3 days of

1442
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:03,640
training away from finishing my
commercial.

1443
01:23:04,440 --> 01:23:06,720
Oh, really?
And and then you could fly 730

1444
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,560
sevens.
No, I need some additional

1445
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,920
ratings for that.
I need my ATP for that, my

1446
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:15,760
airline transport pilot license
for that, which is a step up

1447
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:19,880
from there.
At this point I think I probably

1448
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,200
will finish my commercial.
Having the commercial means you

1449
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:24,560
can charge for it.
So I could I could ferry

1450
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:29,000
aircraft or I could fly you know
with some companies do some

1451
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:32,200
level of charter.
As it turns out I wound up using

1452
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:35,200
it in my business and it's been
really terrific to be able to

1453
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:39,000
self commute certain places.
So I've had kind of that as a as

1454
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:40,240
a tool in the.
Pool Can you fly?

1455
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,640
Though you can fly jets, you can
fly private jets types.

1456
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:51,360
Of I'm not type rated on a jet
but but any any high performance

1457
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:55,880
single aircraft I can just I
could I could operate.

1458
01:23:56,480 --> 01:23:57,920
Fund.
Yeah, it's something I always

1459
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,200
wanted to do.
It's funny, when I was, I don't

1460
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:07,320
know, 17 years old or something
in Canada, I I I started on an

1461
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:10,000
ultralight and it was the
ultralights though, that look

1462
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:13,200
like airplanes, but you didn't
need licensing for it.

1463
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,520
So I took some lessons in that
and really loved flying it.

1464
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,360
It was fun.
And then I decided I wanted to

1465
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:22,160
go for my, you know, single
engine, blah blah.

1466
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:26,560
And so I flew a plane.
I did.

1467
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,600
I don't remember how many hours
of flying I did.

1468
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:31,960
And then I had to go to ground
school and I quit.

1469
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:35,080
I was like, this is boring.
I don't want to do this.

1470
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:36,360
I just want.
To fly planes.

1471
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:38,840
Come on man, what is all this
stuff?

1472
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:41,720
I don't want to go back to
school, you know, that's not my

1473
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,280
goal here.
But yeah, well, good on you.

1474
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:47,160
That's really excellent.
I I I'm envious.

1475
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,160
And you know, one of the
questions I've been wanting to

1476
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:55,600
ask you here because you talk at
such a high level for, and I'm

1477
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,400
not gonna say for someone in our
industry because I know a lot of

1478
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:00,080
really smart people in our
industry.

1479
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:09,000
But our industry is not
typically you know like long

1480
01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:13,280
people don't go to Wharton to
run a lighting company you know

1481
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:17,040
or Harvard to run a lighting
company or sound company or a

1482
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:19,040
rental company or whatever you
wanna call it.

1483
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:22,640
And that's not a knock on anyone
in our industry by the way

1484
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:26,640
because you know you learn in
Hard Knocks in our industry and

1485
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,560
and some of the smartest people
I know in business are in our

1486
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:33,240
industry.
But you talk like someone who

1487
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:37,600
went to Harvard or or or Wharton
or something.

1488
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:41,760
You know you have you're very
you have very strong principles

1489
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:46,320
of business and and finance and
and just seemed to have a really

1490
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:48,760
really good knowledge and
education on that.

1491
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:53,440
Was that all practical or or did
you did you at some point go to

1492
01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:56,280
school?
The vast majority of it was

1493
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:59,360
practical.
It was getting to sit at the

1494
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:05,880
table with really smart people
and be a sponge and the amount

1495
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:11,400
of I think gratitude I have for
them just letting me sit in the

1496
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:15,080
room and absorb the lessons is
huge.

1497
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:21,160
You know and in terms of formal
training you know there's I'm

1498
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:25,320
not sure what I would even point
to in our industry now in terms

1499
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,920
of degree programs or anything
like that right.

1500
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:32,040
And it's and and oddly it's one
of the things that I I have felt

1501
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:39,400
sometimes has negatively
impacted companies in our

1502
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:44,000
industry when the organizations
don't have that balance of art

1503
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,800
and science together, if you
will, you know the science of

1504
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:50,240
running the business and the
financials and the processes,

1505
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,960
but the art of understanding the
industry and its culture and its

1506
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:56,680
opportunities and the trajectory
of its growth.

1507
01:26:57,480 --> 01:27:03,120
I've in recent years, I used to
think, boy, I travel an awful

1508
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:05,920
lot and maybe I don't need to
travel that much.

1509
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:09,120
And then I realized that it was
the travel and the talking to

1510
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,840
people is how you learn that
information.

1511
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:13,200
You learn what's going on with
people.

1512
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:17,160
You learn the trends and you
hear what's happening inside

1513
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:20,160
lots of different companies to
where you can sort of synthesize

1514
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:24,040
that together and go, you know
what that's happening in 47

1515
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:25,760
different companies in our
industry.

1516
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,800
That's a thing.
What do we do with that to help

1517
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:31,520
the industry do better in that
way.

1518
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,720
And and so, yeah, I I would say
it's really the the practical

1519
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:36,680
pieces enormous.
Yeah.

1520
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,400
I mean on a much smaller scale
than you I have, I have helped a

1521
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:43,960
lot of people and I've never
done it, you know, as an

1522
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:45,720
official title or role or
anything.

1523
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:48,600
And I don't really have, you
know, some of the foundation

1524
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:52,640
from, you know, a business
acumen or an accounting or

1525
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:58,480
finance acumen that you would.
But you know, for me it really

1526
01:27:58,480 --> 01:28:03,000
was just like obvious solutions
to to difficult problems most of

1527
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:05,320
the time.
So, you know, Bob would call me

1528
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:08,760
and say, hey, you know, my
company's stuck and would you

1529
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:10,480
mind having a conversation with
me?

1530
01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:12,320
And I'll give them all the time
in the world.

1531
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,640
And I don't charge them for my
time, you know, foolishly most

1532
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,880
of the time.
But, you know, I, I will talk

1533
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,800
through the problem and I'll
give him 14 different possible

1534
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,000
solutions and he'll say, well,
which one should I pick?

1535
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:27,920
And I'll, I'll say, well, you
know, you need to make that

1536
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:29,960
decision.
I can't make that final decision

1537
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:31,520
for you.
I'm going to give you some

1538
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,880
options.
I think each of those options

1539
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:37,400
has the ability to solve your
problem, but you need to pick

1540
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:42,080
which one feels best to you and
and which one you know makes the

1541
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:44,720
most sense to you or whatever
because you need to be behind

1542
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:46,320
it.
If if I choose the one for you,

1543
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:48,760
you might always go, he chose
the wrong 1:00 and you're just

1544
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:50,360
going to be against it the whole
time.

1545
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:52,480
And you know, so just pick one,
right.

1546
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:58,600
But you know, it's it's such a
need in our industry.

1547
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:02,880
You're right like there there is
no formal education for running

1548
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,600
a sound and lighting production
company 101.

1549
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:09,040
You know it.
It's typically people jumping

1550
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:11,840
in, you know, seat of their
pants.

1551
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:14,720
They'll call Uncle Tom or
somebody who's got some

1552
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:17,480
financial or accounting
background and they'll pull him

1553
01:29:17,480 --> 01:29:19,840
out of retirement to become
their CFO.

1554
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,760
And he's never been ACFO before.
He's a bookkeeper, you know, and

1555
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,560
he's retired and doesn't know
what he's about to get into.

1556
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:30,160
And you know, I think what has
happened is, fortunately the

1557
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:33,920
business has been strong enough
to pull people through those

1558
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,600
educations, to pull people
through like they don't go

1559
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:39,520
bankrupt the first mistake they
make, you know, 'cause there's

1560
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:43,480
enough profit being thrown off
of these jobs and stuff that it

1561
01:29:43,480 --> 01:29:47,520
seems to work out.
Yeah, I agree.

1562
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:51,040
And I think a lot of times
people just need a a a partner

1563
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:53,000
to walk alongside for a little
while.

1564
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,440
Somebody who's not afraid to
roll up their sleeves and give

1565
01:29:56,440 --> 01:29:58,280
them the advisory options,
right?

1566
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:01,160
Here's the list of things that I
think you might want to think

1567
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,760
about.
They choose the things that they

1568
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:06,720
want to focus on.
And then having that that person

1569
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:10,480
that can kind of walk alongside.
You know, I I often joke that I

1570
01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:13,520
like riding shotgun or you know,
I'm sort of a ghost in the

1571
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,240
machine and I that I enjoy that
space.

1572
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:18,640
I don't mind what.
Man, you know, it's so

1573
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,000
important.
Like I I've told people my whole

1574
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,240
business career.
Like one of my greatest

1575
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:29,000
challenges in business is that I
never have sort of an equal in

1576
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:33,080
my company.
And you know, I'm a fairly

1577
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:37,640
strong thinker and and I come up
with lots and lots of ideas.

1578
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:40,760
I'm I'm very creative when it
comes to solutions.

1579
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:42,840
And.
But what happens?

1580
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:45,280
You're sitting in a conference
room with all of your people

1581
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:50,400
having a meeting and eventually
you train them not to bring any

1582
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:52,960
ideas to the meeting because
they know, oh, Marcel's just

1583
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,720
going to have these ten big
ideas and he's going to solve

1584
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:57,920
the problem and he doesn't need
my ideas, right.

1585
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,360
And that is so problematic.
So I've really been forcing

1586
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:05,920
myself to get out of that and
and to even if I know that I

1587
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:08,360
know something right now about
the thing that we're talking

1588
01:31:08,360 --> 01:31:12,000
about, I know the solution I got
to shut up and not because

1589
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,960
what's going to happen is if I
just keep delivering all of

1590
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:18,040
these ideas, I'm going to lose
everyone at the table.

1591
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:20,280
You know, they're just going to
shut up.

1592
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:23,240
And and that's happened to me
multiple, multiple times in

1593
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:27,200
multiple companies.
And so, you know, at my ripe old

1594
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,760
age, I'm still learning that.
And you know, I told you earlier

1595
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:32,640
and these stories kind of
collide.

1596
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:37,200
But I told you earlier you were
talking about sort of this topic

1597
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:41,720
where you basically said you you
had so much energy and you had

1598
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:43,960
to pull yourself back because
otherwise you were just running

1599
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:45,520
over people.
Cuz you were like first we'll do

1600
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:47,840
this and then we'll do this and
we'll, you know, I don't, I

1601
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:50,040
don't know, you're probably not
old enough but there used to be

1602
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:53,400
a cartoon with like sort of a
big bulldog and a little tiny

1603
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:54,840
dog that always followed him
around.

1604
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:58,680
I forget what they were called,
but and the big bulldog walked

1605
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,880
real slow and you know, we're
going to go get this done and

1606
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:03,800
we'll eventually get there, you
know?

1607
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:05,960
And the little one was like,
we're going to do this and we're

1608
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:09,560
going to do this And he'd like
smack him and go shut up, you

1609
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:10,640
know, and.
Send him.

1610
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:14,640
Flying.
But so I, you know, I've, I've

1611
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:18,760
been toying with the board idea.
You know, I've been asked to

1612
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,280
join many boards and I've always
turned it down because I just

1613
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,040
thought I was too busy in my own
business.

1614
01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:29,120
But I've gotten involved in a
couple of deals where there were

1615
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:33,000
either roll ups or there were
some acquisitions and and I've

1616
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:37,440
become an advisor in those
situations a few Times Now.

1617
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:40,560
And one of them I was asked to
join a board.

1618
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:45,160
And so I went to my first board
meeting and there have been

1619
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:50,520
multiple now, but I went to my
first board meeting and not long

1620
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:53,200
like I don't know two days after
I got home from that board

1621
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:58,440
meeting, I get a call from the
the private equity group who

1622
01:32:58,440 --> 01:33:03,960
brought me into it and he said
first, Marcel, thank you so much

1623
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:05,880
for coming to the board meeting.
It was amazing.

1624
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:09,680
You know, it's these are all
financial guys and so they

1625
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,720
really enjoyed having someone
who kind of knew the inner

1626
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:15,400
workings not only of a company
but especially a company in our

1627
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:20,800
industry.
And and he said, I can't

1628
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:22,960
remember exactly.
He was very diplomatic about

1629
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:26,720
basically saying you need to
shut up every once in a while

1630
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:30,960
and stop throwing everything at
us because basically, and I

1631
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:34,320
didn't even think of it at the
time, but I completely ran over

1632
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,440
the CEO.
You know, the CEO didn't

1633
01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:41,600
necessarily have 100 ideas at
the table at this board meeting.

1634
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:44,480
And I just filled in all the
blanks.

1635
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,720
And it was completely
inappropriate.

1636
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:52,000
It was, it was a epic fail on my
part and I was embarrassed when

1637
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:56,320
he told me this.
And and so every day since that

1638
01:33:56,320 --> 01:34:00,200
time months ago, I've, I've been
thinking I'll never do it again.

1639
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:01,680
I'll never do it again.
I'll never do it again.

1640
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:03,800
I'll never do it again.
And I probably will, you know,

1641
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:05,920
But I'm I'm at least aware of
it.

1642
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:10,120
I'm aware of it, right?
Yeah, we're all learning and

1643
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:13,840
doing our work right.
We're all learning our pieces.

1644
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:17,520
Well, I would guess that you
fall into a similar situation

1645
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,280
though, where you have to be
careful because you could easily

1646
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:26,880
make Aceo or a founder feel
really bad about himself or or

1647
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:31,480
you could, you know, sort of
pick him up and and help him to

1648
01:34:31,480 --> 01:34:35,440
be a little bit more inspired or
enthusiastic about the future.

1649
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:39,400
And that's all based on your
words, that's based on how you

1650
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:41,640
present the situation to them,
right?

1651
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:49,560
It it is that has come up
multiple times and some of it is

1652
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:55,640
I think you know there's a
factor of inside an organization

1653
01:34:55,640 --> 01:35:00,160
you need teams to respect their
leadership in order to want to

1654
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:04,880
adopt the action and enroll in
whatever their strategy is for

1655
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:09,040
their business, right.
You need their buy in and so I

1656
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:14,200
have always been very careful
and and it's genuine you know I

1657
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,600
I'm I'm there to lift up not
pull down.

1658
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:19,800
It's pretty simple.
I want to be able to support and

1659
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:23,600
help and add bandwidth and
usually when I say that they go,

1660
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:29,040
oh, add bandwidth, there's some
kind of executive level projects

1661
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:31,680
we haven't really approached and
we haven't dug into because we

1662
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:36,240
haven't had the bandwidth.
And then it starts to soften a

1663
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,560
little bit, right, because now
it's not about solving a

1664
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:43,160
problem, it's about helping
provide capacity and and in

1665
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:45,080
truth, I think that's more
accurate.

1666
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:50,920
I I I think there's a lot of and
one thing I'll I'll say a lot is

1667
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,440
you should be really proud of
the great work that the teams

1668
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:55,960
have done.
None of the conversation is

1669
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:59,080
about you know a criticism or an
indictment.

1670
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:02,560
It is only looking at the next
great place you're going to go.

1671
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,520
So let's let's honor everything
that's happened before and it's

1672
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,920
true.
You know they've they have done

1673
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:12,440
and built these great businesses
and it's OK to to get to a point

1674
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,080
where you say yeah, I don't I
don't know how to do that.

1675
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:16,520
I don't feel comfortable doing
that.

1676
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:20,440
And you know and and you know a
tie back to flying.

1677
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:22,560
That's something you know right
away.

1678
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:27,000
If you're doing it wrong you you
will know right now if you've

1679
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:30,560
entered A maneuver that is not
to be done that way or if you

1680
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:34,520
have an engine problem or that
that machine will give you

1681
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:39,520
feedback instantaneously.
And so, you know, you have those

1682
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:43,120
situations that I, I, I feel
like I've learned from as well.

1683
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:46,880
You know, if I move the throttle
forward a little bit and I, you

1684
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:50,000
know, I pressurize the system so
to speak in a company to check

1685
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:53,760
it out and see what happens,
does it run smoother or rougher?

1686
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:56,520
You know, is it what what am I
looking for here?

1687
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:59,120
So yeah, I think there's, yeah,
that's a great idea.

1688
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:03,360
Yeah.
So you know, just to sort of

1689
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:05,640
finish off on your business
because I want to talk about

1690
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:08,520
some of the volunteering things
you do and I can't keep you here

1691
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:12,360
all day unfortunately.
So the business is called

1692
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:15,960
Ventana.
Does that name mean anything?

1693
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:21,320
It it does so, and I'm going to
say the cheesiest thing you're

1694
01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:24,440
going to hear today.
But at a time when I thought

1695
01:37:24,440 --> 01:37:28,680
life was closing all the doors,
I decided to build a window.

1696
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:32,400
It means window in Spanish.
And where I live there is

1697
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:35,440
Ventana Canyon, not too far down
the road from me.

1698
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:41,360
And so it had sort of this kind
of double meaning for me that it

1699
01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:45,880
was a bit of an escape hatch, if
you will, or a a new way out to

1700
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:50,320
discover something different.
But it was also sort of a nod to

1701
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:52,400
where I grew up.
That's cool.

1702
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:53,920
I like it.
I think it's a cool name.

1703
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:58,360
And so that business basically
does a combination of

1704
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:03,360
consulting.
I know I'm minimizing that word

1705
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:07,960
by saying it, but you're
consulting businesses, I think

1706
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:12,880
you get involved in, in a bunch
of M&A activity, but also

1707
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,360
investment or or private equity
or?

1708
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:18,840
Sure.
So most of what I'm doing is

1709
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:22,880
strategic strategic consulting
is helping people build the

1710
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:25,680
plans that get their company to
where they want it to go.

1711
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:30,280
It's adding that bandwidth to
solve a specific problem or to

1712
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:33,720
do a deep dive on the business
and say you know you want to get

1713
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:38,080
to Y word X.
Here's the things that that we

1714
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,400
want to do to get where you want
to be.

1715
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:43,720
And I, you know I'm I'm
oversimplifying because it that

1716
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:46,680
touches areas of financial
optimization.

1717
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:49,960
It touches capital.
It sometimes involves me doing

1718
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:52,520
sales team training and
weaponizing them at a much

1719
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:55,040
higher level specific to our
industry.

1720
01:38:55,400 --> 01:38:59,760
It gets into teaching lead
generation and how do we capture

1721
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:02,200
more wallet share from our
existing customers.

1722
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:05,320
What do our products and
services do right now that we

1723
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:07,640
could leverage in another
vertical We haven't even thought

1724
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:09,600
of that.
Maybe I could introduce them to.

1725
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:13,720
So it it touches a number of
those areas and I would say the

1726
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:19,160
space that I, I spend probably
60% of my time involves all of

1727
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:23,280
those things and is working
mostly with founder LED or early

1728
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:26,000
matrix companies.
It's it's a lot of founder LED

1729
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:30,160
companies that will say we need
somebody who specializes in

1730
01:39:30,160 --> 01:39:32,960
taking us from small to big.
How do we do that?

1731
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:37,400
What are the steps and will you
come alongside and and and be

1732
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:39,560
player, coach?
Run some plays with us, Help us

1733
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:44,160
figure it out.
So, so to sort of define where

1734
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:47,640
that is, is that like in our
industry would that be a company

1735
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:50,560
like somewhere between 5 and 15
or 20 million?

1736
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,160
I I have a a couple of clients
in that space.

1737
01:39:55,160 --> 01:40:00,480
Yeah I think the the sort of 5
to 25 is a good range and I and

1738
01:40:00,480 --> 01:40:04,120
I enjoy that space.
I think there's it it's getting

1739
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:07,600
people from that all hands on
deck leadership mentality

1740
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:12,240
migrated over to a stay in your
lane leadership model and it's

1741
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:14,040
very consequential in my
opinion.

1742
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:16,680
If you do it badly at that stage
you'll never get to 50 million.

1743
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:19,840
If you do it right, you stack
the odds in your favor that you

1744
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:24,160
might get to 200 million.
So there's there, there's a

1745
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:28,480
handful of those and and I also
do some work with some much

1746
01:40:28,480 --> 01:40:33,600
larger players as well in very
similar categories now for them

1747
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:38,640
and and you know think more like
250 million plus size companies.

1748
01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:43,000
It's a mature matrix model.
But usually what's happened is

1749
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:46,480
that they have a change
management need or they've

1750
01:40:46,480 --> 01:40:49,960
gotten corporate inertia in a
direction that it shouldn't be

1751
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:52,520
going and they're trying to
figure out how to grow and work

1752
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:55,680
more efficiently operate their
current business.

1753
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:59,360
And so that's a that's a
different kind of an animal.

1754
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:03,400
I would say probably 10% of my
interactions are acquisition and

1755
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:06,720
sales.
So I I do have a a client

1756
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:11,120
currently that I work alongside
them to help protect their

1757
01:41:11,120 --> 01:41:14,400
valuation and help you know
actively negotiate on their

1758
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:18,800
behalf and sit on the calls and
work through the due diligence

1759
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:21,720
packets with them to make sure
that they've got somebody on

1760
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:26,120
their side calling, calling it
out when when maybe it's not in

1761
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:27,400
their best interest.
Very cool.

1762
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:30,240
Yeah, that's great.
That's fantastic.

1763
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:35,480
And so, but most of your clients
or or companies that you work

1764
01:41:35,480 --> 01:41:39,920
with are in the AV live events
space.

1765
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,640
Yeah, AV and entertainment
spaces.

1766
01:41:43,080 --> 01:41:44,600
OK, cool.
That's right.

1767
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:45,560
Yeah.
Interesting.

1768
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:50,760
So you love boards and volunteer
boards and and all of these

1769
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:54,000
types of things.
I actually did not know of the

1770
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:55,920
very first two that are listed
here.

1771
01:41:55,920 --> 01:42:01,880
I didn't know that you were on
the on the ESA board and I also

1772
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:04,080
didn't know that you were on the
ESTA board and you're the

1773
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:06,920
president of ESTA.
So it just shows how how much

1774
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:08,840
I've kept in touch with ESTA
over the years.

1775
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:12,880
I used to play along fairly
closely with them and got

1776
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:15,240
involved in some of the
technology when I was with

1777
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:18,080
Martin.
I think we were part of the fog

1778
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:21,040
and smoke group there or
whatever.

1779
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:26,000
And but you know, that's got to
be a really interesting

1780
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:29,040
experience and also probably
opens a lot of doors too, I

1781
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:34,240
would guess.
It has been wonderful to be able

1782
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:38,920
to spend time with that group of
folks, not just the Board of

1783
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:42,720
directors who I have tremendous
respect for and really just

1784
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:46,640
appreciate them as people, but
also a lot of the working groups

1785
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:49,360
and you know, you talk about
technical standards and what's

1786
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:51,400
happened there.
I've certainly been involved in

1787
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,160
some standards writing
particular to the rigging

1788
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:58,720
industry but also the programs
they have in protocol you know

1789
01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:01,480
their journal that they
published quarterly that

1790
01:43:01,480 --> 01:43:05,160
highlights good things happening
in our industry is is another

1791
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:09,720
piece that I I get to sort of
tap into and and learn from the

1792
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:12,720
folks in that realm.
And then obviously the TCP

1793
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:16,080
programs the certification
programs for power and

1794
01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:19,720
electrical Power Distribution
slash electrical and then

1795
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:23,600
rigging of course.
So it's been, I've partnered

1796
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,240
with them, gosh, in some form or
another for almost 10 years now

1797
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:31,080
and have served on the Board of
Directors now in my second

1798
01:43:31,080 --> 01:43:35,000
three-year term.
So I yeah, I've, I've really

1799
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:37,240
enjoyed that and we'd love to
have you come back.

1800
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:40,880
Here's my there's my shame of
invitation and blood for you.

1801
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:43,400
Yeah.
I mean, without making this

1802
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:47,080
sound lousy, what is Esta's role
now?

1803
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:51,960
And and so I know that like
earlier, 20 years ago, 20 plus

1804
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:58,000
years ago, ESTA was starting to
swing a pretty, pretty good bat

1805
01:43:58,480 --> 01:44:02,480
and Steve Terry was involved.
And you know, there were some,

1806
01:44:02,480 --> 01:44:06,080
some significant players and
they're probably still are, but

1807
01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:09,520
they were able to, they were a
voice and they were a voice that

1808
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:12,560
people were listening to.
I don't hear a lot of people

1809
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:16,160
talk about ESTA these days, and
I don't know if that's just, you

1810
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:19,160
know, the way it goes or or
maybe I'm just not listening to

1811
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:21,600
the right people or whatever.
But what is?

1812
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,800
You know, what's your, what's
your drive?

1813
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:25,480
What's the role for ESTA right
now?

1814
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:29,760
Yeah.
So the trajectory for ESTA has

1815
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:33,120
changed a lot and I mean even
since the pandemic has changed a

1816
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:35,800
lot.
So it going to your comments,

1817
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:40,240
there has been a long legacy of
equipment dealers,

1818
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:43,600
manufacturers, it's all
companies has been historically

1819
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:44,800
right.
It doesn't have individual

1820
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:46,960
members.
It has organizations as members.

1821
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:52,400
And so you will have an
executive or representative of a

1822
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,440
company that comes to the
meetings and they help write

1823
01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:59,120
standards and they advocate on
behalf of their own subject

1824
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:02,320
matter expertise.
And so that those groups are

1825
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:04,560
very active.
Actually, the the Technical

1826
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:08,160
Standards program has many
standards that are currently

1827
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:11,440
under developmental revision.
And if I if I can interrupt just

1828
01:45:11,440 --> 01:45:15,560
for a second, I apologize, but
those standards are not like

1829
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:19,840
they're not their suggestions.
They have no weight, correct?

1830
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:23,520
So the.
The.

1831
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:29,080
They they're antsy accredited.
So the antsy standards that was

1832
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:33,800
more true than in the past than
it is now for the reason that

1833
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:39,120
you're starting to see a lot
more lawsuits reference OSHA and

1834
01:45:39,120 --> 01:45:43,080
OSHA starts to point to antsy
and say well this is what a body

1835
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:47,080
of experts in the industry said
therefore it becomes referenced

1836
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:49,560
in the lawsuit.
So is it a recommendation?

1837
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:55,280
Yes, in its purest form it is.
That being said the acceptance

1838
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:59,000
of it in courtrooms now is
dramatically higher than ever

1839
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:02,920
before.
So, so wall recommendation, it's

1840
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:06,520
definitely being leveraged to
have very consequential

1841
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:09,080
conversations for people like
you know I.

1842
01:46:10,440 --> 01:46:16,360
It's funny because I I was
talking with Jim about this on

1843
01:46:16,480 --> 01:46:22,680
ESA and what does it take to get
from suggestion to you know, a

1844
01:46:22,680 --> 01:46:27,760
stamp that says this is ESTA
approved or or ESA approved or

1845
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:30,520
whatever, where it's like a UL
where it has to be on there,

1846
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:34,640
it's a compliance thing.
Is that just an impossibility to

1847
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:38,480
get to that point or?
No, I mean these committees will

1848
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:41,880
will spend generally more than a
year.

1849
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:44,080
I mean less than a year would be
incredibly fast to try to

1850
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:48,800
achieve something.
But the cycle of them is, I

1851
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:52,400
would say sort of the ones I've
been involved with kind of 1 to

1852
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:56,040
2 1/2 ish years depending on
complexity.

1853
01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:59,600
And it goes through rounds of
public review, so anyone can

1854
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:02,320
weigh in and tell you if you're
right or you're wrong or they

1855
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:03,880
have a third answer you haven't
thought of.

1856
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:07,440
And then ultimately it does get
the antsy stamp and you can put

1857
01:47:07,440 --> 01:47:10,240
that into practice.
The, I would say the two most

1858
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:14,000
popular programs rest of for
sure are the standards that

1859
01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:15,840
we're talking about and also
ETCP.

1860
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:19,960
So the certificates in that
program continue to grow.

1861
01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:24,600
Actually this year they've grown
a lot and so there's a lot of

1862
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:28,320
pieces there.
But I I, I would say that the

1863
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:33,840
organization is really focused
on relevance right now in terms

1864
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:37,200
of how do we get from where we
were to where we want to go.

1865
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:43,400
And a good example of that is
the the Equitable Workplace

1866
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:49,480
initiative that was sponsored
through Netflix under ESTA.

1867
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:54,360
And if you haven't seen it,
definitely something to check

1868
01:47:54,360 --> 01:47:57,440
out, but it speaks to that
diversity and inclusion.

1869
01:47:57,440 --> 01:48:01,760
How do we get a workforce
initiative in our industry that

1870
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:04,640
really starts to diversify
things a bit more, more

1871
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:07,800
representative of the
demographic of who our industry

1872
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:09,960
is.
So you know that's an initiative

1873
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:14,240
you wouldn't have seen even you
know 5 or 10 years ago, right.

1874
01:48:14,240 --> 01:48:16,720
And so there's there's
definitely some significant

1875
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,600
areas there where where they are
evolving in that space.

1876
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:24,000
And then what about things like
you know, the the stuff that

1877
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:26,760
Michael Strickland and certainly
I helped him on some of it, but

1878
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:31,600
Michael Strickland was so good
at getting through to you know

1879
01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:34,800
the government and and trying to
get things passed and put in

1880
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,520
place to protect our industry.
And you know his, his famous,

1881
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:42,480
his famous saying was always
that you know industries like

1882
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:46,400
the airlines or hospitality
would show up at the Senate with

1883
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,640
with battleships and we would
show up in 100 canoes.

1884
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:54,760
And.
And so does ESTA get involved in

1885
01:48:54,760 --> 01:48:58,400
any of that kind of stuff like
protecting, protecting our

1886
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:02,200
industry, I guess, or or uniting
our industry from a standpoint

1887
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:05,040
of, you know, this could happen
again where the world tries to

1888
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:08,280
shut down our entire industry
and we want to have a voice when

1889
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:10,760
that happens, not just 100
canoes, right?

1890
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:14,000
So.
Do you get, have you guys gotten

1891
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:17,240
involved in that at all?
Yeah, absolutely.

1892
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:21,160
Actually, there was a Creative
industry round table, second

1893
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:23,800
annual that was hosted at the
NAMM show this year.

1894
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:29,200
I moderated last year and this
year and it's a collection of

1895
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:34,200
about 25 organizations in our
industry from around the US that

1896
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:39,680
are passionate about that exact
workforce development voice that

1897
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:43,000
that we have together.
And so it's it's very directly

1898
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:48,520
related to that I I personally
am in favor of any voices that

1899
01:49:48,760 --> 01:49:53,520
want to help us unify and lift
up and be visible.

1900
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:57,160
And so I, I, yeah that's that's
a really good one.

1901
01:49:57,160 --> 01:49:59,840
I I.
And so we we connect quarterly

1902
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:03,760
but but certainly have a very
clear vision around saying let's

1903
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:08,000
protect each of our own sort of
unique identities that you know

1904
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:11,280
we come to the group not as a
let's have one voice for all

1905
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:14,800
'cause I think what what a lot
of people reacted to or what

1906
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:19,640
what I've observed is, you know
I still have my own specialness

1907
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:23,560
about my organization that
serves a certain purpose and and

1908
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:26,720
you have yours.
And so how do we all sort of if

1909
01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:29,440
if we're not going to have one
voice, can we get all of the key

1910
01:50:29,440 --> 01:50:33,200
voices or the influential voices
who represent much bigger

1911
01:50:33,440 --> 01:50:36,200
audiences to the table so that
they can all sit together.

1912
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:38,720
And really that's that's what
that's been.

1913
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:40,880
So yeah, really, really like
that.

1914
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:44,040
You know, and this is my opinion
only, and it's probably not an

1915
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:49,920
extremely popular opinion, but
part of the problem is aligning

1916
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:53,240
with Nam.
I think and and I I say that

1917
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:58,800
because Nam is not really
representative of our industry.

1918
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:03,600
We're we're such a tiny little
cog in their massive chain and

1919
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:06,840
and we are very small to them as
an industry.

1920
01:51:06,840 --> 01:51:10,040
And I know we've been pushing
hard in that direction for a

1921
01:51:10,040 --> 01:51:13,480
number of years now to better
align with Nam as part of this.

1922
01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:16,440
You know we're a music industry
and blah blah blah.

1923
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:20,200
But you know we're just we're
shoved off into the corner.

1924
01:51:20,200 --> 01:51:23,240
We're such a small piece of it.
Like I'd certainly love to see

1925
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:27,640
it more aligned with LDI with
you know, shows that really are,

1926
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:33,320
you know, substantial industry
shows for our own industry.

1927
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:36,840
And you know, I and I say this
from a person who's got

1928
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:41,760
experience exhibiting at NAMM as
a lighting company and realizing

1929
01:51:41,760 --> 01:51:45,960
we are such a small part of this
business, you know, these

1930
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:48,880
massive music store people and
stuff like that.

1931
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:53,120
So that's just my own thought.
Like hopefully you're aligned

1932
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:56,720
with LDI as well.
So you know what's what's really

1933
01:51:56,720 --> 01:52:02,280
interesting about that is the
ESTA and the ESA have sort of

1934
01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:06,720
been the neutral nation, so to
speak, to host those meetings

1935
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:11,560
for which Nam volunteered space
when we're going to be in town

1936
01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:15,760
around it.
So I two things.

1937
01:52:16,440 --> 01:52:19,840
I agree with what you said and
by the way, Nam sees that as

1938
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:21,600
well.
They're you know their their

1939
01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:25,800
teams have been terrifically
gracious and they also recognize

1940
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:31,360
that their their primary
demographic is musical

1941
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,960
instruments overwhelms and will
take a long time to sort of

1942
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:36,480
bring in production out of it,
right.

1943
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:39,480
So there's I mean and there's
there's good visibility there.

1944
01:52:39,480 --> 01:52:41,480
They're not unrealistic about
that.

1945
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:45,080
They also at the same time value
the whole ecosystem and so

1946
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:46,720
that's made for a nice
conversation.

1947
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:49,440
Now all that being said, believe
it or not, we actually did

1948
01:52:49,440 --> 01:52:54,040
approach LDI sometime back and
and that was not a, it was not a

1949
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:55,680
priority.
For.

1950
01:52:56,280 --> 01:53:01,320
Them received conversation at
that point in time but but that

1951
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:05,760
being the case it is certainly
something that we are are

1952
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:10,400
actively talking about and would
like to would like to be visible

1953
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:13,040
where our members are visible.
You know, if I can put it that

1954
01:53:13,040 --> 01:53:14,160
way, I think that's where you if
you need.

1955
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:16,520
Some muscle Todd sick me on
them.

1956
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:18,560
I'm happy to.
I will.

1957
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:20,800
I'm already setting up the call
as we speak there.

1958
01:53:21,160 --> 01:53:25,080
You go, there you go.
And So what did I miss here?

1959
01:53:25,080 --> 01:53:27,400
So you're also a volunteer
pilot.

1960
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:30,320
So you're not only a pilot, but
you're flying as a volunteer,

1961
01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:35,480
which is interesting.
Yeah, So what I, you know what I

1962
01:53:35,480 --> 01:53:38,200
liked about that organization a
little more personal.

1963
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:41,000
I mean obviously behind the
scenes charity, very personal

1964
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:44,240
cause for me.
And then service with ESTA and

1965
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:45,880
service with the Event Safety
Alliance.

1966
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:48,080
In terms of their mission
alliance.

1967
01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:53,160
For me, what I liked about Angel
Flights, W was the idea that you

1968
01:53:53,160 --> 01:53:56,480
might have people who couldn't
afford to get to critical

1969
01:53:56,480 --> 01:54:01,960
medical care and that if you had
the time and you had the access

1970
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:03,800
that maybe you could make a real
difference for them.

1971
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:07,600
So, you know, when it's not just
adults, it's kids too.

1972
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:10,840
It's kids who are going to
cancer treatments or things that

1973
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:15,240
their parents desperately wish
that they could afford to

1974
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:17,800
transport and get them to the
best hospital where their kid

1975
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:20,360
could get a good chance.
So, so that really hit for me.

1976
01:54:20,360 --> 01:54:23,280
I've got three kids and I would
hope that if I was in a

1977
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:26,160
situation where I needed
something critically, that

1978
01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:27,680
somebody would raise their hand
for me to.

1979
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:31,960
So how often are you doing that?
Like how how often are you doing

1980
01:54:31,960 --> 01:54:36,360
these volunteer flights?
It's exceedingly rare it's and

1981
01:54:36,440 --> 01:54:40,600
part of that is my availability
and part of that is where the

1982
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:42,960
the, the mission is.
So what they will do is they

1983
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:48,320
will publish how many people and
where they want to go to and

1984
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:51,000
from and days and times and
things like that.

1985
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:55,920
So it's it's a a large network
of folks but that being said it

1986
01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:59,880
does greatly reduce sort of
where you can get you know to

1987
01:54:59,880 --> 01:55:01,920
and from depending on where they
need to go.

1988
01:55:02,360 --> 01:55:05,920
Wow, that's amazing.
Congrats, Congrats and good on

1989
01:55:05,920 --> 01:55:08,480
you.
Good, good, good job.

1990
01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:11,040
Like you're doing some
incredible work and and like I

1991
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:12,760
said in the intro, I'm not
worthy.

1992
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:17,880
You know I appreciate you taking
the time for a a dummy like me

1993
01:55:17,880 --> 01:55:22,400
to to sit here and learn from
your incredible wealth of of

1994
01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:25,960
knowledge and I'm not making fun
of you because you know you've

1995
01:55:25,960 --> 01:55:30,120
really done some cool stuff.
I mean, I'm, I'm definitely

1996
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:34,200
impressed with how you've
managed to, you know, get into

1997
01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:38,600
that PSAV thing and then not
only survive, but thrive and and

1998
01:55:38,600 --> 01:55:41,840
ride it to a pretty high level.
And Congrats, man.

1999
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:45,000
That's really, really cool.
Thanks Did.

2000
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:46,920
I miss anything, Todd.
Did I forget?

2001
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:51,600
To talk about anything, because
I'm sure, not unlike you, I have

2002
01:55:51,640 --> 01:55:53,960
about a billion other things
that I got to get to.

2003
01:55:54,080 --> 01:55:56,360
So I'm.
I'm going to have to say

2004
01:55:56,360 --> 01:55:58,360
goodbye.
But.

2005
01:55:58,440 --> 01:56:00,000
No, thank.
Thanks so much for doing it,

2006
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:00,920
Todd.
I appreciate it.

2007
01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:05,360
And let's let's catch up one of
these days when you recover from

2008
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:08,960
spending two hours with me and
we can talk about stuff that we

2009
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:10,440
couldn't talk about on a
podcast.

2010
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:12,960
No, thanks for the opportunity.
Thanks for having me.

2011
01:56:13,080 --> 01:56:14,920
It's always good to see you.
Thanks so much.

2012
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:16,280
See you.
Thanks man.

2013
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:31,640
See you.
Yeah.