#229 - Marian Sandberg

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Thank you for joining me here
today on Gears of Gear Episode

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#229.
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Well, hello and again, thanks

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for joining me today on episode
229.

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And so I don't have much to
report today.

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Again, I'm seeing a lot of tours
that are starting up already.

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It feels like it's early, feels
like it's really early.

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Actually I'm used to seeing
tours going out in April or May,

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the summer tours and these have
been going in like February and

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and March.
So yeah, just feels like things

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are are moving right along.
Things are earlier talking to

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some of my friends at
manufacturers, we're hearing a

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lot of and Haas and you know bit
of fear.

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I don't know if they're sensing
a bit of a slowdown in the

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industry, but certainly I guess
maybe orders aren't coming as

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easily as they have for the last
couple of years.

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Not that it's been easy for
anybody, but certainly you know

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it feels like there's a a bit of
a change happening right now on

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the gear side of things and I
know I'm feeling it in my own

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company as well.
Things are just unusual as they

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have been now for, for four
years almost.

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So the other thing is trade show
season really starts with ISE

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and and then next on the docket
is Pro Light in Germany which

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starts next week, I think the
19th.

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And you know I'm still curious
how that's gonna turn out.

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Everyone keeps saying that it's
being displaced by ISE.

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I know that over the years that
show has been really important.

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The German show, the Pro Light,
huge show and it was.

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It used to be the big start of
of the sort of pro trade show

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season and now that seems to
have become ISE.

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So we'll see.
I look forward to hearing

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reports back from people.
Certainly if you go to the show

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I'd love to hear from you.
Shoot me an e-mail or a message

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and just let me know.
Otherwise I'll be learning from

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social media.
I used to go to the show quite

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often, but not really a big need
for me to be there now, so I

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don't bother today's guest.
You know, again I I love

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bringing non geezers onto the
geezers of gear.

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Today's guest is another woman
and we've had a lot of ladies on

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recently, so that's great.
I love it.

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Maybe we should have a Gazettes
for Gazettes of Gear logo or

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something, but even then she
wouldn't fit because she's still

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too young.
So Marion Sandberg is a a great

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lady.
I've known her a long time.

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She started doing PR for for I
think Group 1 Jack Kelly back in

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the 90s in 96 and since then the
industry hasn't been able to

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shake her.
She won't leave so to read her

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bio here.
Marion has diverse work

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experience spanning several
industries and is currently the

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Vice President and Market Leader
for LDIDSC and X Live at Quest

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X.
Prior to this, Marian worked at

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Informa from November 2016 to
December 2019 as the Content

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Director for the Live Experience
Group where she was responsible

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for digital editorial content
strategy, video production and

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conference content.
Is that all?

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And Marian also shaped brand
marketing strategy and monitored

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site metrics to optimize
practices.

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Before Informa, Marion was the
editor at Live Design Magazine

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from February 20, 2004 to
November 2016.

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So really if I put that all
together, Marion's basically

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been with the same company from
2004 until today, just in

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different roles and with
different ownership.

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And again, you know, Super Lady
really excited about bringing

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her on.
And also we're going to talk

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about the Iron Man that she just
completed last year, which I

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would assume was a pretty
massive achievement and a lot of

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training and a lot of work.
So let's get this party started.

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How are you?
Hello, Monsieur Marcel.

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How are you?
You know what?

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I'm OK.
I'm not too bad.

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What day is it though?
It's Wednesday.

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It's Wednesdayish, yeah.
So if you're seeing this, it is

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legit Wednesday, a sunny day in
New York.

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I have a half a week left by the
way.

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I do want to initiate a
complaint, an official complaint

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to LDI right here on the air, on
the.

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Podcast on The Record.
Yesterday I received

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advertisement from Virgin Hotels
saying save 25% on Virgin

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resorts, especially the Virgin
Hotel in Las Vegas.

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And so I was like, OK fine, I'll
book it.

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I could book up until the I
think it was the middle of

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November and you couldn't put
book past that.

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It just blocked out all the
dates into December.

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Is that you?
So I.

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Have that kind of power.
Let me call Mr. Branson and get

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on that.
Get right on that for you.

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No, that's a. 25% discount
because I'm just a small little

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entrepreneur business and you
know the savings.

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If I had a nickel, if I had a
nickel for every time someone

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said I'm just a small little, I
can't, yeah, that is definitely

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not from us.
Yeah, I know.

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Sorry to say.
I was just kidding.

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I just thought of it right now.
But I literally did.

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As soon as I got that e-mail
from them, I was like, oh, I'm

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gonna.
OK.

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And yeah, it didn't go so good.
But then in the same e-mail they

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tell you, and this is one of my
billion pet peeves.

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In the same e-mail they tell you
that their resort fee is $44 a

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day.
Like, you know, I don't agree

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with Biden on very many things.
In fact, probably this is the

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only one the the resort fee
thing like that.

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He's always when he remembers
that he complaints about you

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know the I agree with him on
that.

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Like this resort fee is
bullshit.

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Yeah, that's your nightly fee.
That's your nightly fee, right.

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So when it's I, I just booked a
hotel in fact to go to it, a

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trade show believe it or not but
it is not one that I produce and

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the the fee was so low that I
sent the link to everyone on my

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team like book, book, book it's
it's rock bottom prices and then

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the total comes out and you're
like well that's actually it's

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adding you know 50%, it was 50%
the the the room was so little

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that the resort fee was 50% on
top of that.

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That is ridiculous.
Yeah.

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I mean, the whole, I just heard
a noise.

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Was that you?
Was that on your end?

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I heard like a ringing.
I thought it was, oh, it it was

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Sarah trying to come in.
Here she is.

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Sarah is now.
We need Coursera out.

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He's your producer.
Sarah is now in the green room

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and we're already recording
Sarah, so you just keep quiet

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and be nice there.
She's.

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Waiting Hello, Miss Sarah.
Hello, Miss Sarah.

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She's waving at you now as well.
Wonderful.

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Sarah was doing a great job.
I think you, you obviously have

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done this for, you're a pro,
you've done it for a long time

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and it's an excellent, excellent
product.

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And Sarah has just just brought
the level, yeah, the level up

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she's.
Been amazing.

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She's been very, very helpful.
You know, she we have found some

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cool tools and tricks and stuff
that I didn't use before because

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I wouldn't say I was complacent,
but I was a single operator of a

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podcast that did the recording,
the guest booking, the, the

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sponsors, absolutely every
aspect of it.

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And I got lazy on some of those
things.

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And so we had the same tired old
sponsors, you know, Eric and Ben

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forever.
The way to talk about your

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sponsors is being tired and all
I.

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Love them both and they know it
so much.

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So we've been good to them and
they've been good to us but now

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now we have a whole bunch of
great new sponsors and and lots

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of guests were booked into I
think the end of April now.

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So yeah, it's it's just really
going crazy.

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And she was able to get you on,
which you know is a remarkable,

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I think that.
Was something I am.

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I am really overbooked and I am
only known for being a woman

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who's good at her job.
So that's.

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True.
Well, we're not even going to

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talk about that because
diversity don't matter to me.

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So, you know, I just think
everybody's great regardless of

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your gender and all of those
types of.

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Things Well, I think that's
that's an important distinction

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all jokes aside, because I do I
I do see the need for advocacy

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but I think as a lot of probably
women in this industry will

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attest is we just want to be.
I'm just AVP for LDI, right?

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I I don't, I'm not the woman VP
for of course I am.

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But.
And we have work to do with pay,

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equality, etcetera.
But I think that sometimes it

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feels strange to separate
ourselves even though we know

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the advocacy has to happen.
So I'm kind of of two minds

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about it, which is a challenge.
You know, again, I think

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probably people think I'm
loudmouth, sexist, this and that

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and all of those things, but I
have more women than men in my

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company and I don't count them.
Like, it doesn't matter to me.

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You know what I mean?
They're really great people.

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They do really great work.
And I couldn't care less what

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sex they are, who they sleep
with, who they pray to.

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I don't care.
None of that matters.

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You're good or you're not good,
right?

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And they happen to be really
good people.

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Not good women.
Good people.

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You know, so.
And I think.

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And one of them, one of them who
we both know and I won't mention

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her name, but you know, I can't
really decide which gender she

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is some days, you know, like she
she sometimes carries the worst

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part of both genders, so.
Or the best or the best.

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And I think, I think yes.
Oh, I think if everybody thought

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that way, then the world would
be a better place.

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Unfortunately, not everybody
does.

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So we still do have a need for
advocacy and things like, you

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know?
Yeah.

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I mean I, I, I talk to people
all the time who are still you

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know sort of like Archie Bunker.
You know they're really stuck in

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the, in a time warp in the past
somewhere.

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And you know women don't belong
in business or women shouldn't

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be voting or women shouldn't be
allowed on golf courses.

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And I'm, I just look at them
like what?

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Like are you freaking out of
your mind?

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What are you crazy?
Like did you fall asleep for 40

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years or something?
And.

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Yeah.
You'd like to think we've come a

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little bit farther than that,
but sometimes we have.

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But, so here's, here's the
complicated part of that is that

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I also don't believe that you
should walk back to the back of

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the line and grab a woman
because she's a woman and pull

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her up to the front of the line
and put her in front of all the

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very capable men that were in
line in front of her.

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And so that's where it gets
complicated.

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And I happen to have a very
personal story about that

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because my son is struggling in
Motorsports right now because he

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doesn't get the same
opportunities that diversity

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backed people do.
And whether that's, you know,

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through through race or or
gender, you know, they just get

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big advantages and he doesn't
get the same advantages and and

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he's like, dad, what's going on
here?

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And I'm like, I don't know, go
ask.

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That you know what someone's
going to say.

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And it might be me.
I don't feel so sorry for the

227
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,280
the white guys.
Sorry.

228
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,800
It's not really equal yet.
I mean, that's that's what I

229
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,440
that's what I would say is that
it's if we were there, then yes,

230
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,440
but I do agree, you know, like,
I'll hold the door open for you

231
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,160
if you hold the door open for
me, right.

232
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,080
I don't think that you should
hold the door open for me.

233
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,440
I'll hold the door open for you
also, but I think I think you

234
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:38,440
don't.
Think I should hold the door

235
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:39,920
open for you?
Seriously.

236
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,160
Yeah, no, that would be fine.
Oh, like as a gentlemanly thing.

237
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,000
Yeah, I.
Think as a human courtesy thing

238
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,760
and the point is I would do it
for you also, but no I don't

239
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,320
think.
That's a that's a slippery slope

240
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,840
because I I still believe in
chivalry and all of that kind of

241
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,840
stuff in that you don't hit
women, you don't get in fights

242
00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,880
with women.
You don't you?

243
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,360
Don't.
But where's the line then?

244
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,560
Where's the line then, 'cause
you're basically saying I should

245
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,080
open a door for a woman just as
much as I do for a man?

246
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,080
No.
And I also don't think you

247
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,800
should hit a man either.
Well, yeah.

248
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,800
I'm not advocating violence.
I'm not advocating.

249
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,040
Violence, I don't think I should
hit you either.

250
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,760
I mean, so I think, I just think
there's we still, unfortunately

251
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,560
there's still a long way to go
for you know, for women and

252
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,040
people of color that that.
I think diversity and inclusion

253
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,920
efforts are trying to help that
along.

254
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,880
And I don't know the answer as
to what other ways to try to

255
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,160
help that along besides it's.
Imperfect science?

256
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,160
It's definitely imperfect.
You know, and yeah, it's not

257
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,880
important with someone getting
ahead of your son in line in,

258
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,440
you know, whatever that
opportunity is is like an

259
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,320
effort, a, you know, sometimes
botched effort to help things

260
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:51,960
come more equal.
So.

261
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,760
Yeah, I mean it's it's, I think
in some cases it it's really

262
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,360
wise and it's smart to you know,
use these diversity efforts and

263
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,880
things.
And and I'm certainly not

264
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,720
against it, but in some cases,
you know, literally somebody's

265
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,880
been working their whole life to
achieve something and now

266
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,400
someone who's achieved less is
being promoted ahead of them.

267
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,640
And it's not based on their
skill level, It's not based on

268
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,480
the effort that they've put in.
It's not based on their, you

269
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,200
know, years and years of of
waking up really early in the

270
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,920
morning to do these things or
whatever.

271
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,720
They're just being bumped out of
line because they're.

272
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,560
And, you know, so that is that.
Reverse racism or reverse sexism

273
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,320
or whatever you want to call it.
It's just called racism or

274
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,160
sexism.
But yeah, I I thought I although

275
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,200
I will say I don't.
I have not encountered a

276
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,400
situation where someone was, you
know, wholly unskilled or

277
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,280
undeserving of an opportunity.
Yeah, anyway.

278
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,400
No, I agree with, I agree with
that.

279
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,680
Like, I mean, I think that I
just, you know, I know this

280
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,920
isn't the first topic we should
have started on, but I'll give

281
00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,320
you my my final.
View.

282
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,760
On it, My final view on it is
basically if there are two

283
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,280
people standing there applying
for a job, and I'm interviewing

284
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:14,920
those two people and all things
considered equal, 1 is a better

285
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,920
candidate.
That's the one that should be

286
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,360
chosen, chosen that it shouldn't
be done for any other reason

287
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,240
other than you're the best
candidate given my criteria for

288
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,440
this role.
You shouldn't be weighted based

289
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,320
on your religion, your whatever,
all of those other things that

290
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,360
are involved in DEI or whatever.
And that's, that's my view, you

291
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,520
know?
So I respect, I don't

292
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,040
necessarily agree, but I respect
it.

293
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:43,160
Yeah.
Good.

294
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,200
Well, we'll have that.
We'll have a talk at LDI.

295
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,720
Over over a drink one day we'll
have a talk at LDI and and drag

296
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,360
it out and.
You can't hit women.

297
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,240
Yeah, and.
And you can't hit me if I say

298
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,480
something you don't like while
we're.

299
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,200
Having a drink, I know when you
get.

300
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,760
A little bit.
When you get a little bit of

301
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,320
alcohol in you, you probably get
a little feisty.

302
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,960
I throw, I throw.
No, I definitely don't.

303
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,200
I go to sleep.
Good.

304
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,960
Good.
So you know, I was reading the

305
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,960
notes before we got started on
this and and nowhere did it say

306
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,640
talk to her about DEI by the
way.

307
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,599
So that just don't even know
Sarah was.

308
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,040
I definitely didn't send that
note either, so that's good.

309
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:27,079
You started in this business
with the boys at Group One, I

310
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,920
think, right?
Long, long ago, Yeah.

311
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,000
And I'm sure that's probably
where you met your ex-husband as

312
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,520
well, because he was a big Clay
Packy guy.

313
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,440
Did he?
He worked for Group One at one

314
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,160
point.
I think he was like the the

315
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,320
product specialist or something.
Yeah, yeah.

316
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,240
So when I started Group One in
Farmingdale, Jack Kelly hired

317
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,320
me.
I literally answered an ad, like

318
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,920
in a newspaper that was printed
and I had to mail my resume and

319
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,600
they mailed me a letter back and
said, here's a test.

320
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,760
Basically they asked me to write
a press release about, you know,

321
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,080
actually I'll never forget it
was XTA electronics signal

322
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,320
processors being used on the
Olympics opening ceremony for

323
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,080
their sound system.
Knew nothing about it, right.

324
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,240
So I kind of like BS my way
through that I wrote a press

325
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,480
release and and I mailed my
press release back and got an

326
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:22,120
interview.
So.

327
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,240
It was crazy.
I owned stamps and envelopes and

328
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:26,600
I printed something out, you
know?

329
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,640
Yeah.
And when I that was 1996, I

330
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:32,760
guess.
And.

331
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,760
And in Farmingdale NY yeah, Jack
Kelly hired me and so there was

332
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,760
Vinnie Finnegan who rest in
peace passed away last.

333
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,720
He was there when I started
there.

334
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,040
Norman Wright who's still there.
Not not too many people are

335
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,240
still there.
But yeah Patrick was a Patrick

336
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,120
Dearson we're talking about in
case anyone's unfamiliar, who's

337
00:18:55,120 --> 00:19:01,000
a there is only 1D Patrick.
Yeah he worked there at the

338
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,040
time.
I think when I started, he was,

339
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,200
you know, touring like as a
product manager with some of the

340
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,280
Clay Paki stuff for maybe Reba
McEntire or one of the Feld

341
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,760
shows.
I remember literally writing

342
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,000
press releases about it, and he
was this guy who worked there

343
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,880
that I had to call from the road
because he was never in the

344
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,720
office.
But yeah, and I fondly remember

345
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,400
you know I really cut my teeth
working there because we I did

346
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,280
PR and marketing for all the
lines that they've distributed

347
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,120
at the time.
So it was Clay Paki Optic

348
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,200
Kinetics, Sound Deluxe
microphones, KRK monitor.

349
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,280
As you know we represented about
11 brands from overseas that we

350
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,960
were the exclusive New York
excuse me North American

351
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,400
distributor for.
So that really kind of I was

352
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,880
thrown into the fire having you
know little idea what I was

353
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,000
talking about really was not
trained for this.

354
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,760
Well, I'm plus.
Those guys were characters, you

355
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,480
know, like Vinnie and and Norm
and and Jack.

356
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,000
I mean all of them.
They were characters.

357
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,400
You know, Vinnie especially.
Like I I loved Vinnie.

358
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:10,840
Vinnie I had a blast with back
in the day, as you say, and they

359
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,760
were characters.
Vinnie was.

360
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:19,120
He always wanted to do specials
on fog fluid, so we did gem gem

361
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:23,920
foggers and hazers also.
And he would, first of all, you

362
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,520
have to remember this is 1996
and literally not everybody at

363
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,360
the company had a computer,
right?

364
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,480
So we he didn't walk in and have
a computer.

365
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:38,520
So my first day of work, Jack
Kelly said to me, So what do you

366
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,720
think you need to do this job?
And I was like, I need to, you

367
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,720
know, type words on something
like, and I don't want to use

368
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,760
that IBM Selectric 3 typewriter
over there.

369
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,200
So he said, OK, go to the, I
don't even know what to shop.

370
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,440
But there were no Best Buys,
right?

371
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,720
So he said go out and buy a
computer.

372
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,840
He gave me his credit card
because that you could literally

373
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,280
just use somebody else's credit
card.

374
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,160
Jesus.
Fraud.

375
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,840
I used this credit card.
I went and bought a desktop

376
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,840
computer and like spend that was
I spent my first day doing that

377
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:12,240
was setting up my my computer
and and then Vinnie got wind of

378
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,480
the fact Vinnie Finnegan I think
we said his whole name.

379
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,600
He was one of the VPS on the
light in the lighting division.

380
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,640
He got wind of the fact that I,
you know there were some

381
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,560
graphics that you could do on
this And then so he would give

382
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,160
me this, these specials for fog
fluid which were fantastic.

383
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:27,840
And it was always around
Halloween, right.

384
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:34,240
And it was like eco orange and
eco green.

385
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,440
I mean these things you know
smelled not great.

386
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,880
No offense but they didn't not
great.

387
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,760
And we he would be doing these
half off like moving fog fluid

388
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,160
and I would set like I could set
up the computer to like fax

389
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,000
where you could set you know
your computer to fax everybody

390
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,560
And I spent like a day entering
everybody's fax numbers so I

391
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,800
could do these auto faxes for.
And Vinny, just once he got wind

392
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,800
of the fact that I could do
this, he would have like a

393
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,640
monthly special for me to do for
hearing I'm supposed to be

394
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:05,080
writing these like you know,
allegedly high level press

395
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,600
releases about Golden Scan Three
is all being out on Reba

396
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,760
McEntire and and Vinny would
find me all these amazing sales

397
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,720
to you know, put spider webs on
the background like make it with

398
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,400
more spider webs because it's
for Halloween.

399
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,400
So.
But they were characters like

400
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,600
really fun to work with, really
very generous of, you know, time

401
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,960
and knowledge and contacts.
And so when I was this, you

402
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,800
know, young person coming up,
they would just, you know, oh,

403
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,440
we're going to have lunch with
so and so you got to come with

404
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,320
us.
You got to know so and so.

405
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,520
You got to know so and so, so it
was.

406
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,600
Well, you probably took, you
probably took the sting off of,

407
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,200
you know, them showing up at the
lunch and and now at least we

408
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,440
have someone nice to talk to you
know, or whatever.

409
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,680
You know, it's funny that that
Golden Scan 3 tour that you're

410
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,640
talking about the The Reba tour,
that was Peter Morris, right?

411
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,840
I believe it was.
And so when I was with Martin at

412
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,920
the time and we had recently
released the Robo Scan 5/18

413
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,720
which was like the first small
light that had rotating Gobos at

414
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,920
the time.
And and Peter used like a

415
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:18,960
hundred of those down the the
sides of the stage and and I

416
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,680
remember it having a whole bunch
of clay Paki stuff on it as

417
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,920
well.
Yeah.

418
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,760
And I'm sure I didn't write
anything about the.

419
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,200
Yeah, in.
In my latter life as an editor,

420
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,720
I would have been very fair and
balanced, but then I was writing

421
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,280
just about quite.
Patchy.

422
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:35,440
We got really good press on that
because I remember Peter said to

423
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,400
whoever did the article, he
said.

424
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,200
They said I see that you used
these Martin Robo scans for the

425
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,520
first time ever on a tour.
And he said, yeah, they're my

426
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,640
favorite little pocket rocket.
And yeah.

427
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,040
Which lasted about a minute
because I don't think he ever

428
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,320
used them again because they
were such a pain in the ass and

429
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,120
they were always broken and the
gobos were like this big.

430
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,400
And yeah, they were.
I definitely remember trying to

431
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,160
capitalize on that.
But you know, we had really

432
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,560
quality Italian fixtures with
excellent optics and you know,

433
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,160
you did.
Yeah.

434
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,240
As long as I can remember,
that's been Klay Paki.

435
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,520
You know, like if I remember
being in demos with like Disney

436
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,840
when I first started working
with Trackman and we had this

437
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,440
robo scan, you know, and we'd go
to this demo and it'd be like a

438
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,040
shootout or something where
you've got all these designers

439
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,640
who are there going, OK, now I
want you to do this.

440
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,680
And I had Peter Moore there with
me and I'd be like, OK, Peter do

441
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,640
that, you know?
And he'd have to program the

442
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,160
thing that they were asking him
to do.

443
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,800
And the one that we struggled
with, where Clay Paki just

444
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:45,720
completely annihilated us, was,
OK, go from here to here in

445
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,440
seven seconds and then back
again.

446
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:49,840
And then go back.
Yeah.

447
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:56,280
And so we would go like this, we
would go and we'd eventually get

448
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,760
there and then we'd come back
going the other direction,

449
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,320
right.
You could not do a diagonal

450
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,920
straight line with a Robo scan
if your life depended on it.

451
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,360
It just didn't work.
So Peter's like really busy

452
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,640
trying to program like from here
to here to here to here to here

453
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,680
to here, like in 100, in 100
steps.

454
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,720
And then just to change the
timing a bit to smooth it out a

455
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,720
little bit so you couldn't see
it going like this.

456
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,120
I'm sorry for the people who are
listening, but I'm drawing lines

457
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:25,640
all over the screen with my
fingers.

458
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,040
But, but yeah, so I always had
like at when I was with Martin,

459
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,840
I always basically had sort of
commercial envy for high end and

460
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:42,680
quality envy for Klipaki.
But now you went from Martin to

461
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,240
high end, did you not?
Briefly.

462
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,720
Yeah, for a hot minute.
For a hot minute, yeah, yeah, I

463
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,080
was there for their biggest year
ever.

464
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,480
I think they did just over 90
million in sales and right at

465
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,120
the top of that I said OK, I'm
leaving now to go do a little

466
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:02,440
tiny start up with Gerard Cohen
again and yeah, the rest.

467
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,680
Is is that that when you started
Gearsource that was right after?

468
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,240
Yeah, I started Gearsource right
after.

469
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:12,640
No, I did the thing with Gerard
when I went and brought Comar

470
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,040
back in and we just really
started to explode Comar.

471
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:23,720
And then Gerard got a little bit
anxious and decided to roll

472
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,040
Comar into this Stanton Group
thing that he had at the time.

473
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,280
And so suddenly, literally, we
got rid of our building.

474
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,760
We had to move into this bigger
building with Stanton and all

475
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,360
these DJ companies.
And it was a disaster.

476
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,560
It was just a.
Stand magnetics.

477
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,360
Stanton magnetics, Yeah, but it
was called by then it was called

478
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,400
Stanton Group because they
bought KRK.

479
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,760
They bought Serwin Vega.
KRK was one of the was the

480
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,600
monitor company that I did PR
for.

481
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,240
After one, Yeah.
Keith Keith.

482
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:53,880
Clowder.
Clowder.

483
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,000
Yeah, interesting fellow.
Very, very smart guy.

484
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,880
But you know your typical
eclectic genius, right?

485
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,320
Yeah.
But yeah, so that was a

486
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,480
disaster.
So I left fairly quickly.

487
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,120
I think 2001.
I left and sat around thinking

488
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,200
for a while and then in 2002
launched Gearsource, which I

489
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,240
still slave for today.
Remarkable.

490
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,960
How does that sort of evolve
like would would start with the

491
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,360
spark of an idea, Did you do
like a lot of market research

492
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:27,400
around?
That interviewing.

493
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,280
Me now, actually.
I did, though.

494
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,560
No, it's it's an interesting
story because what I really

495
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,120
decided was similar to what a
lot of people decide after

496
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,080
you've done it a few times is I
didn't want to keep jumping from

497
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,040
moving light company to moving
light company.

498
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Like I'd I'd already run my
course with with moving lights.

499
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,400
I didn't want to do it anymore.
And So what was I going to do

500
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,360
next and what I really thought
about.

501
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,400
So here's the whole story, but
I'll try and keep it brief is do

502
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,680
you know who Seth Godin is?
Yeah.

503
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:06,600
Yeah.
So Seth was in in the late 90s

504
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,600
and early 2000s, sort of the
Internet guru and especially.

505
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,960
Search.
Not search marketing, permission

506
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,000
based marketing guru.
He created this whole thing

507
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,400
called permission based
marketing, where you were

508
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,960
building lists, e-mail lists
based on people wanting to be on

509
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:23,800
that.
List, not just.

510
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,240
Spamming them.
And they were opting in, right?

511
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,760
And so he started a company
called yo-yo Dine.

512
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,440
He sold it to Yahoo for lots and
lots of money.

513
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,520
Went on with Yahoo to become the
Head of Permission Based

514
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,680
Marketing at Yahoo for a while
and since then he's been an

515
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,360
author and Blogger and all kinds
of other.

516
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,280
Things Yeah, his blog is really
fascinating.

517
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,640
So one of the first books he
wrote was a really cheesy name,

518
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,080
like getting rich on the
Internet or something stupid

519
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,640
like that.
And so I thought, well, this

520
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,520
guy's really smart, I'm gonna
buy the book.

521
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,320
So I bought the CDs.
It was actually a box set of six

522
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,000
CDs, and I sat out by my pool on
the golf course after I left

523
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,440
Gerard.
And I'd listen to these.

524
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,880
I think I listened to the whole
set three or four times.

525
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:13,960
And on one of the CDs was a
story about a rhinoceros.

526
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:20,240
And there's some kind of a bird
in Africa that would the rhino

527
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,400
or hippo.
Sorry, not rhino.

528
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,600
The hippo would sit in the water
with his mouth open.

529
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,440
The bird would fly in land on
his teeth and would eat all the

530
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,560
shit out of the the hippo's
teeth, and the hippo would just

531
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,960
sit there with his mouth open,
happily getting his teeth

532
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,120
cleaned, and the bird would take
off with a full stomach.

533
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,960
And so the moral of the story
was figure out a way to be that

534
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,600
bird, basically to.
So you wanted to be that shit

535
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,040
eating bird?
I wanted to be the shit eating

536
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,200
bird, living off, living off the
shit in their teeth.

537
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,920
I've never had anyone word it
quite like that.

538
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,080
You are the shit eating bird.
What do you mean?

539
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,200
Please put that on your LinkedIn
profile.

540
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,760
I'm gonna put that on my
LinkedIn profile.

541
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,480
I'm proud of it.
Yeah, I'm proud of it.

542
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,440
So, so the the concept was
basically find a way that you

543
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,200
can earn small amounts of money
from lots of much larger

544
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,560
companies doing something that
they really need done, like

545
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,800
eating the shit off their teeth.
And so I thought for a while,

546
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,600
and one of the one of the things
that had really become a pattern

547
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,200
at the companies I was at was as
technology was moving quicker,

548
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,560
inventory problems were starting
to mount, where basically last

549
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,320
year's model was getting pushed
back onto the shelf and the new

550
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,560
ones were going in front of it.
And then it kept going like

551
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:40,960
this.
And so you might have three

552
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,480
versions of the same light on
your shelf and sometimes you

553
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,480
couldn't just go, you know,
change a gobo or a chip or

554
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,520
something.
Sometimes it was different

555
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,480
hardware altogether and you now
had a version one, version two

556
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,360
and version 3.
And you know in our industry,

557
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,200
unlike iPhones I guess where you
can still get money for an

558
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,440
iPhone 12 or 13, it was tough.
You know, it was tough once you

559
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,760
had a version three out, nobody
wanted version 2.

560
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,560
And so I decided I was going to
build a business focused on

561
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,320
version two and version one and
basically B, stock and

562
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,480
discontinued inventory.
And it was really based on

563
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,920
manufacturers and distributors
though, the companies that I

564
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,640
knew because that's where I
spent most of my career working.

565
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,560
And very shortly after I started
Gearsource based on that

566
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,040
premise, I got a call from
Huddleston at upstaging saying,

567
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,200
hey, Marcel, that Gearsource
thing you're doing looks like

568
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,760
you're doing really well.
And at the time, I wasn't yet,

569
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,160
but you know, can you do the
same thing for a rental company?

570
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,160
And I said, I don't know, I
guess so like you've got old

571
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,560
inventory you need to get rid
of.

572
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,560
So it wasn't really initially
meant to be like sort of the

573
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,560
Sanford and Son of the lighting
industry.

574
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,960
It was, it was more about
helping people with inventory

575
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,920
problems and actually our
originally our original tagline

576
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:04,640
was you know Gearsource your
inventory partner and and it

577
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,040
sort of grew into this global
marketplace thing.

578
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,600
But yeah, so that's that's the
story of the foundation of it.

579
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,520
It was all based on a need and
and a spark from Seth Godin.

580
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,560
And you're pushing 2324 years
now Is 2001 you started?

581
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,760
2002 So yeah, 22 years now.
Who knew?

582
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,280
Who knew?
I mean, listen, I I just

583
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,680
celebrated 20 at you know, with
the various LDI and live design,

584
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,600
lighting, dimensions, brands.
So, you know, I I feel like

585
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,920
forever I was the new person
because, you know, we retain

586
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,920
people and for a really long
time I was the new person for

587
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,000
like a decade.
It's funny because I still

588
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,200
thought of you that way.
You know, 'cause like, I

589
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,120
remember dealing with Pat.
You know, I remember back

590
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,920
dealing with Pat and Jackie and
and you know, they were our

591
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,600
trade show people.
And so I really hadn't been with

592
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,040
manufacturers and I just thought
of this this morning.

593
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,240
I never really dealt with you
because by the time you were in

594
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,160
that role, I was out of that
role.

595
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,040
And so, yeah, no, it's
interesting.

596
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,320
Yeah, but Crock, they were
pretty close, Harley, because I

597
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,600
started in 2004.
Yeah, as editor of Lighting

598
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,000
Dimensions, which is in fact
over my shoulder.

599
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,880
You're looking at my first issue
in 2004 that I was the editor of

600
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,440
that I started in February 2004.
So and we were still printing

601
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,640
magazine and we still called
Lighting Dimensions and we still

602
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,280
had our sister publication
Entertainment Design, which was

603
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,360
formerly Theatre Crafts.
And yeah, all that fun stuff

604
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,640
like putting out a print
magazine every month and

605
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,800
redlining copy, and it was great
fun.

606
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,120
It was great fun.
It's still done, like Live

607
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,400
doesn't do.
Do you still do a magazine?

608
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,080
No, we don't do prints at all.
We start doing prints a few

609
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,240
years ago, yeah.
Yeah, I remember you went fully

610
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,640
digital for a while and then I
don't even think you do a

611
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,240
magazine anymore, do you?
It's more.

612
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,040
Like a no, we we're all online.
Yeah, yeah, we did.

613
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:11,000
We did an app which you know, I
think, dare I say, we were a

614
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,040
little bit of ahead of our time.
But we did an app when it was

615
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,239
like put in an app and have
sound bites and we could have

616
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,800
like, you know, really
interactive.

617
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,080
It was super interactive, which
made it really expensive to

618
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:32,199
produce and and really a heavy
lift and it could break all the

619
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,880
time.
And it was for iPad, it wasn't

620
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,360
mobile.
People would say like this is

621
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,040
really cool, but can't you put
it on my phone?

622
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,679
And it's like, well, it wasn't
adaptive yet, right?

623
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,120
It wasn't.
It didn't adapt to the different

624
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,920
screen sizes.
So we went through several

625
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,440
iterations and then, you know,
we had a pretty big advertiser

626
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,480
say like, well, I won't
advertise it until you do an

627
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,400
Android version.
So there was a period of time

628
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,840
where we were doing, we were
still printing a monthly

629
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,880
magazine and we were doing 4
digital versions, which is 4

630
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,960
layouts, right?
So you have to lay it out for

631
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,560
the screen.
So there's a iPad version.

632
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,480
There was an iPhone version for
whatever the most popular iPhone

633
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,880
was at the time, even though
they were varied sizes.

634
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:22,200
And then there was an Android
the, the tablet, Android tablet

635
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,440
version.
And then there was an Android

636
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,040
phone version.
So we were doing 4.

637
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,440
I mean, we weren't editing all
the words, but you have to edit

638
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,800
all the all the image sizes and
stuff because it wasn't

639
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,920
adaptive.
So, yeah, that was we did that

640
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,560
for about a year and it was
kind.

641
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Of like pain in.
The ass.

642
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,840
It was killing us.
Yeah, it was killing us.

643
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,080
Oh my.
God.

644
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,800
Yeah, so having a website where
we can just have like, you know,

645
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,560
mega pictures and we can produce
news every day and stories every

646
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,360
day, that's.
What I was gonna say, it changes

647
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,600
daily, right?
Like you're constantly blogging

648
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,880
and stories and.
Whatever on there.

649
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120
Every day we can do and we can
do exposes that are longer

650
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,280
longer looks at shows but we can
break them into you know, bits

651
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,080
of you know, today we're
covering the lighting in two

652
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,920
parts and tomorrow we're gonna
cover the the screens production

653
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,240
and and you know makes it a
little bit more I think

654
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:15,360
digestible for the way that
these kids get their content

655
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,920
these days, which is in a little
bit.

656
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,640
Yeah, I can't tell you the last
time I saw like a 20 year old

657
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,360
lighting person, you know,
reading this month's copy of

658
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:28,360
PLSN or whatever.
I don't know.

659
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,800
Do they do print still or is it
just lighting dimensions?

660
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,120
Who doesn't print?
Now lighting dimension doesn't

661
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,400
exist, but that was that became
my design.

662
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,600
Yeah, LSA and PLSN.
Still sorry.

663
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,680
Yeah, I can't keep track of all
your names and your.

664
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,280
Own owner.
You know it's only been 20

665
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,240
years.
LSA started when I joined blame

666
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,640
Dimension.
So they kind of left that that

667
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,280
nest and and went and started a
competing publication.

668
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,840
So, yeah, around, yeah.
Interesting, interesting.

669
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,200
And I.
There's there's room for all of

670
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,200
us.
Yeah, lately anyways.

671
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,080
I mean, lately, it's just so
crazy.

672
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,560
Everything's so nuts right now.
Like the I I keep talking about

673
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,920
how live events are are just
exploding and and just seem to

674
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,080
keep growing.
And it's all based on this

675
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,760
social media stuff you know that
the kids are doing nowadays.

676
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,960
But you know, every one of these
artists now has millions and

677
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,120
millions of social media
followers and they all have an

678
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,200
appetite for live, to see the
band live or the artist live.

679
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,920
Yeah, well.
Isn't marketing interesting how

680
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,960
much it's changed certainly
since you and I have both you

681
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,320
know been in this industry.
I mean manufacturers are so much

682
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,440
more savvy frankly than they
were And and part of that I

683
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,880
think came out as recently as
the pandemic on on staying on

684
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,200
radar and companies started
doing more of their own web

685
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,800
casts and and just staying in.
You know the one medium that we

686
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,440
all had was the Internet during.
I sound like I'm about 80 right

687
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,720
now these kids and their
Internet, but but of course that

688
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,480
was the way to stay connected
during during COVID.

689
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,360
But I think if you weren't
putting out a show you weren't

690
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,760
selling gear.
You know you you could do more

691
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,520
creative things with content
online And I think some

692
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,040
manufacturers that that are
frankly you know clients of LDI

693
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:19,760
became really good at marketing
themselves which is.

694
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:25,040
You know, and it's it's why I I
have such admiration for for you

695
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,280
and for Ellen and for just the
show's evolution and stuff.

696
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,720
Because, you know, I've written
off LDI so many times.

697
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,640
Just because how fast everything
is shifting.

698
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,320
And by the way, before I forget
to say it, the very first time I

699
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,440
ever saw the Internet was at
some point in the 90s.

700
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,840
I don't remember exactly what
year it was at LDI.

701
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:53,000
And so somebody invited me to a
demonstration in a hotel suite

702
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,040
and it was what was that guy's
name, One of the high end, the

703
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:03,000
real smart guys from high end.
Anyways, it'll come to me, But

704
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,920
so I went up to this suite to
see what was going on and they

705
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,320
said it's this thing, it's
called the Internet.

706
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,000
And I'm like, what's that?
And they're showing me how it

707
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,680
all works and how you can
connect multiple computers

708
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,280
together and all of this stuff.
And I was like, wow, OK, you got

709
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:17,720
beer.
You got beer in here.

710
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,520
Can I have a beer?
And I left.

711
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,080
I was bored but.
Crash in the pan.

712
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,480
It's a trend this.
Yeah, that'll be gone in a week.

713
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,360
But you know, it really has
changed things.

714
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,880
You're right.
And I mean today it's so hard to

715
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,200
keep track of like on this
podcast, one of the things that

716
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,920
we discovered.
So we just started doing YouTube

717
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,920
recently just like October I
think of last year.

718
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,280
And we're very new and we're
very, we're not spending any

719
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,560
Money Marketing or anything.
So we have a really small

720
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,720
following, although we've been
getting a lot of traffic

721
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:53,160
recently like 10s of thousands
of people and stuff like that.

722
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:58,400
But, but you know, one of the
things we learned recently was

723
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,360
these these things called
shorts.

724
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,840
And so I was like, well, how do
you create these shorts?

725
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,080
They're like clips, you know,
they're under one minute on on

726
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,320
YouTube or you know, it depends
on the platform.

727
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,720
But so we started doing it just
organically and going in and

728
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:19,240
saying, OK, from here to here,
this is a pretty cool little

729
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:23,720
piece of video and it would take
me on a 2 hour podcast to cut

730
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:28,000
out like 4 shorts would take me
an hour, maybe more, right?

731
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,680
So then we discovered this thing
called AI and a specific tool

732
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,400
for making clips and now we can
do like a dozen clips in a

733
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,960
minute basically like you just
basically.

734
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,680
And it's using a lot of
information, like it's looking

735
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:50,320
for really strong hooks that
will grab a lot of attention and

736
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,800
it's looking for interesting
things and it's piercing those

737
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,000
interesting things together.
And is it perfect?

738
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,800
No.
But is it really good and and

739
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,760
definitely better than what we
were doing before.

740
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,960
And it's instant.
Like and efficient.

741
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,160
Yeah.
And efficient.

742
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:03,960
Super.
Efficient.

743
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,680
Yeah, really, really great.
So, you know, I mean, the change

744
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,920
is like just the fact that you
can put a podcast like this up

745
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,640
on YouTube and it cost you
nothing.

746
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,920
And.
People can go look at it, listen

747
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,560
to it, whatever.
And we just moved our hosting

748
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:24,680
from, I was on something called
Libsyn for five or six years and

749
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,480
I was paying $100 a month to
host the podcast on this Libsyn

750
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,520
thing.
And then somebody says, why

751
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,600
aren't you on Spotify?
And I said, well, we are, you

752
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,160
know, Libsyn feeds it to Spotify
and he goes, no, no, no, why

753
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,560
don't you host on Spotify?
And I said why would I do that?

754
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,640
Because it's free.
And you know, Ding Ding Ding

755
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,160
Ding Ding.
So I mean it took me couple of

756
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,840
hours.
I moved all of our hosting to

757
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,280
Spotify and now it's completely
free and it does the same thing.

758
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,080
It's an RSS feed out to every
other platform.

759
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,880
So wherever you want to listen
to the podcast, it's there.

760
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,960
And so yeah, I love technology.
I, I, you know, there's a Joe

761
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,840
Rogan with Ray Kurzweil on it
that just launched like

762
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,760
yesterday or something.
I was listening to it this

763
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,720
morning on my walk, and you
know, there's some scary things.

764
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:09,320
Certainly there's some
potentially scary things with

765
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,200
AI, but I think in general AI is
just going to make us all better

766
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,760
at our jobs.
Yeah.

767
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,240
Have you played around with
ChatGPT at all?

768
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,320
It's fascinating.
Yeah, yeah.

769
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:25,240
And I think, I think it it does,
you know, you risk, I don't

770
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:27,320
think anyone should rely on it
by the way, because you risk

771
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,560
sort of the well you risk your
voice, right.

772
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,280
First of all, and I I don't
usually have trouble with words

773
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,120
or sharing so it's not a
challenge for me, but I, you

774
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,280
know, it's good for.
I think if someone is like

775
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,720
worried about writing an e-mail,
I'm not sure what to say.

776
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:46,880
I mean, it's like it's the fact
checking though I think the

777
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,600
piece is like you have to be
really careful about fact

778
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,720
checking because it doesn't
always get it right.

779
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,640
Well, it doesn't tell you when
it's wrong.

780
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,120
It doesn't tell you.
I don't know.

781
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,080
It just makes it up.
And that's Ray.

782
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,720
Cruzwell.
Was talking about this.

783
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:03,200
That this is what's fascinating.
So I thought, So when I started

784
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,160
playing, I wanted to share this
experience because I thought it

785
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,560
was hilarious.
I started playing with ChatGPT,

786
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:10,080
you know, when it first came
out, like, let's see.

787
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,120
And the best way to check if
it's factually correct is to ask

788
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,800
about something you know really
well and you don't even have to

789
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:17,560
look it up.
Right.

790
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,960
So I like everybody else in in
the free world, you know, joined

791
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,640
Facebook in 2007.
I didn't like everybody joined

792
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,920
Facebook in 2007.
If you look back, it says you

793
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,280
joined Facebook in 2007.
I'm going to.

794
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,040
Have to check now.
I have like a you know a

795
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,040
relatively probably light to
moderate social presence at you

796
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,240
know personally and I have a
pretty well you know detailed

797
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:45,120
enough LinkedIn and and but also
having written so much for the

798
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,840
for lighting dimensions and live
design over the years I probably

799
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,080
have hundreds of bylines So I
think like my Internet imprints

800
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,320
or you know footprint is.
So I thought I would do AI

801
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,960
thought I would do a a dramatic
reading of my ChatGPT bio.

802
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:08,120
You ready for this?
Who is Marion Sandberg ChatGPT

803
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,840
says.
As of my last update in January

804
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,840
2022, there isn't significant
public information available

805
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,520
about a person named Marion
Sandberg who would be of notable

806
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,400
recognition.
It's possible that she could be

807
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,480
a private individual, or she may
have gained prominence after my

808
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,920
last upload.
If she has become notable in the

809
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,960
time since then, I wouldn't have
any information on her so.

810
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,120
My God.
Awesome ego boost.

811
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,800
That is hilarious.
I'm going to have to try that

812
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,480
one, by the way, Now you.
Could Google faster.

813
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,080
So I'm thinking I'm using it as
a tool to see like let's see how

814
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,080
accurate this is and I'm going.
Well, thanks Chachi Chachi, BTD

815
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,200
SO.
Here's what I've learned.

816
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,920
Here's what I've learned, and
I've learned most of this really

817
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,000
recently.
It's all about the prompt.

818
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,800
And so for example, when you say
you lose your voice, you don't

819
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,960
have to because you can say
using my voice and and writing

820
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,280
this exactly as I would have
perhaps in an article in 1997

821
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:11,760
you.
Have to be very specific.

822
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,000
You got to be very and you got
to treat it like your brand new

823
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,080
assistant.
Basically talk to it like you've

824
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,360
got this brand new assistant and
I'm sorry and your rules.

825
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,120
Am I allowed to call it an
assistant or is it a significant

826
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,160
Co worker or?
Something.

827
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,640
I just don't want to break any
rules here.

828
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,160
Don't.
Assume it's a woman.

829
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,960
Just don't assume it's a.
Woman Oh my goodness.

830
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,400
Anyways.
I.

831
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,080
Used to know the difference, but
I don't know anymore, so I don't

832
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,080
know what to call people.
Hey, you you know, yeah.

833
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,720
That's totally acceptable.
But no, you're right.

834
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:51,240
It's it's the specificity of it
is super important because you

835
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,560
have to give it like an anchor
to you know.

836
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,480
But that I just thought that was
a funny example because I didn't

837
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,840
do that recently.
I did that way back like oh I'll

838
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,560
just see how it's at fact
checking and it was like yeah no

839
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,080
we don't we don't have a clue
who you are like don't you could

840
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,760
have googled like lighting
lighting dimensions or live

841
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,120
design and and found me easier
but I'm sure right with context

842
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,840
it's much better and that's
it's.

843
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,600
It's all about those prompts.
It's all about.

844
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,160
And it's not just, you know,
it's that initial setup like who

845
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,560
I want you to be, basically what
is your role?

846
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:27,480
And and so you're gonna act like
me, you're gonna use my voice

847
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,360
and you're going to use my voice
from articles that I've written

848
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,360
over the past 20 years,
especially from 1990.

849
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:36,000
Whatever.
To.

850
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,360
And from this website from this
source you can get source.

851
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,840
This is really important also.
And then exactly what you want

852
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,880
the results to look like.
And you know what am I expecting

853
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,920
from this?
Like what do I want you to?

854
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,400
What do I want this to end up
looking like?

855
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,440
Or being and I find that the
more specific I get and I'm

856
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,880
using whatever it is, chat four
I think it is or 4.5, whatever

857
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,240
The one is that we're on right
now.

858
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,280
And I find the more specific I
am and the more information I

859
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,040
give it and the more I direct it
to tell it what I want it to do.

860
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:09,840
And so one of my friends taught
me this.

861
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,600
He he's like me very small
business owner with without a

862
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:18,480
big marketing team or whatever.
And he just said Marcel ChatGPT

863
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,720
can be your very best employee.
You just need to learn how to

864
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:24,120
talk to it properly.
You know and.

865
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,560
And it is it.
And it learns, right?

866
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,880
It learns.
Yeah, So, yeah.

867
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,480
Like, that goes into a little
bit of the scary part, but.

868
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,120
Yeah, I'm digging it, you know.
Unfortunately, I still use it

869
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,520
for dumb things, you know, like
my girlfriend the other day was

870
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,720
asking me, you know, what do you
do with that?

871
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,280
Like what do you need that for?
And are you familiar with Dolly?

872
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,520
So Dolly is is an image
generator for.

873
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,200
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's owned by by the same

874
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,520
group.
And so I go in Dolly and I say,

875
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:57,680
I go look, it'll do whatever you
want it to do.

876
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,440
And she goes, like, what?
And I said, OK, show me, draw me

877
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,560
a picture of a cow riding a
bicycle.

878
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,880
And so I get a picture of a cow
riding bicycle and she goes,

879
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,520
well, anything can do that.
And I said, OK, I want a cow

880
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,840
riding a bicycle with a Bunny
rabbit on his head and a frying

881
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,680
pan in his left hand.
And so I get that back right?

882
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,720
And she's like, what?
And I go now put the cow's bra

883
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:29,680
on the outside of the cow's self
clothing, whatever.

884
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,640
And so now it's got the bra on
the outside, right.

885
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,200
And and I just kept expanding on
it and the the resulting image

886
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,320
is absolutely hilarious.
And you know I told it what how

887
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,880
I wanted it drawn.
I wanted a cartoon type of an

888
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,240
image and yadda yadda yadda.
So you get out what you put in

889
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,760
basically, and and if you just
say write me a blog article on,

890
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:56,160
you know, cooking, it'll write
you a really shitty AI blog

891
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,640
article on.
Cooking and generic.

892
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,680
Looks like it came out of a blog
or out of AI engine.

893
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,440
Yeah.
And and generic enough that if

894
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,440
you read it, you realize it's
saying nothing.

895
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,520
Like it's really saying nothing.
Yeah.

896
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,480
So yeah, the specificity is, is
really important and it can, you

897
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,240
know, you can inject tone into
it, right?

898
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:18,200
As you say, you can say, right,
you know this, the tone should

899
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:23,240
be stern or soft or loving or
hateful or, you know, whatever.

900
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,600
It's very effective at
following, but it's your point

901
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,840
following instruction, right.
It needs human intervention now,

902
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,160
for now.
You know, I would guess with

903
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:37,360
your role at at, you know, your
current ownership or whatever.

904
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,280
They're a large company, a large
group.

905
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,240
They've got lots and lots of
trade shows and things they've

906
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,560
got.
I would guess that you've got a

907
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,440
lot of marketing resources
there.

908
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,120
So you don't like where you need
to sharpen your skills on this

909
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,840
stuff is either you're a, you
know, you're in a marketing role

910
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,440
in a company where they you're
the person that they're looking

911
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,080
to for that, or you're really
like you're me, you're an

912
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,560
entrepreneur in a small company
and you'd need to learn it on

913
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,800
your own.
Basically you need to figure out

914
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,960
how are these tools going to
make me a better company, or

915
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,760
make me a better CEO or make you
know whatever it is right?

916
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,760
Yeah, I think anybody can use
you know efficiency like no,

917
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,840
nobody's necessarily an
efficiency expert and they they

918
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,880
can help anybody.
I I think the, you know, we

919
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,200
especially because we have a lot
of content that our company puts

920
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,960
out not just for LDI on the live
design editorial side but plenty

921
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,320
of other publications and
regular newsletters and and

922
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,000
digital sites as well, digital
content providers.

923
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,920
And the the concern you know of
course the worry is, is to make

924
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:46,280
sure there are standards around
you know not using ChatGPT to

925
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,200
write and that's I think where
the fact checking bit comes in.

926
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,200
It's like I first of all I don't
know any journalists in my

927
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,400
company or outside who would use
ChatGPT to write an article

928
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,240
because that's lifeblood, right.
Well, but you know, if that's.

929
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:03,160
Your writing books, they're
already writing books.

930
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,840
You know artists are creating
paintings, or not paintings, but

931
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:07,720
drawings.
You.

932
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:10,280
Know what do you call them,
right?

933
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:11,600
Yeah, I mean, what do you call
them?

934
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,000
You know vision.
And then, are you an artist or

935
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,160
are you are you an artist or are
you an AI prompter?

936
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,000
Like that's your kind of role?
It's interesting, isn't it?

937
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,680
Yeah, because I mean, I could
now be an artist because I can't

938
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,560
draw a stick, man.
But I can certainly prompt AI

939
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,120
now.
So it's interesting to see where

940
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,360
it goes.
And and again it's gonna require

941
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,400
that we behave and you know we
don't just use it for bad

942
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,040
things.
Like I'm surprised there's not

943
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,000
AI porn yet, which I'm sure
there is because that's usually

944
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,920
those are usually the people who
fund new technology.

945
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,320
You know, like we got to, we got
from, you know, 1080P to 4K

946
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,280
really quickly.
Why?

947
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,120
Because of porn.
You know, why did we get bigger

948
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,440
Internet servers or whatever?
Because of porn.

949
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,280
Like, why do we get faster
speed?

950
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,760
Because of porn.
It's it.

951
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,960
It funds and drives most of the
technology that that, you know

952
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:10,800
we all thrive on which is crazy
but yeah so but you know it's

953
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,600
it's a part of our lives and you
know Ray Kurzweil said it really

954
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,280
well on this on this.
Joe Rogan if you're at at the

955
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,920
least bit curious of where it's
all going or whatever, it's a

956
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,520
pretty good podcast to listen
to.

957
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,800
But Kurzweil, Kurzweil said, you
know when you're at the front

958
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:31,120
end of a of a revolutionary
technology it's usually one of

959
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,040
the first reactions is fear,
right.

960
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,880
Like Oh my God, this could
really, you know we're going to

961
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,240
be answering to robots soon.
Oh, my God.

962
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:41,000
Right.
But, you know, here, give me

963
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,520
your iPhone back.
You know, that iPhone that

964
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,360
you've grown really fond of and
that now your whole day is

965
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,120
wrapped around that iPhone.
Give it back to me.

966
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,640
You know, Because guess what 10
years ago that was.

967
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,040
If I would've told you what your
iphone's gonna do, you would've

968
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,400
said no, no, no, no, no, no.
We can't have that, you know?

969
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,200
Yeah, and nobody wants to go
backwards once you've gone, once

970
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,080
you've made progress, you don't
wanna go backwards.

971
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,000
Nobody has.
So it's gonna be interesting.

972
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,480
Yeah.
And I I mean it's it's true for

973
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,080
every generation like you said,
I mean not having, I remember

974
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,000
you know in the 90s, I guess it
was like the latter half of the

975
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,800
90s.
And I can't remember if it was

976
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,400
actually, you know, having some
proximity to working with Clay

977
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,680
Paki that the Italians didn't
have.

978
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,800
They were getting rid of
landlines.

979
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,000
And this to us was like, and
they were like, well, I'm

980
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,040
carrying this around.
Why would I also have that?

981
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,280
And it's like, what?
Don't tell me.

982
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,320
I have to tell my mother.
She's got a, like, at the core,

983
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,320
Right.
And it was like, it made no

984
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:38,760
sense.
It was like, yeah, but because

985
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,080
you just do, because you just do
have a phone, right?

986
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,800
And now it's like, now it's like
I pay for a landline because

987
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,400
it's cheaper for my cable and
Internet service, even though I

988
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,480
don't have a phone plugged into
any Jack in my house, but I have

989
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,520
a phone number that I don't use
because to, you know, to get the

990
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,400
optimum, yeah.
The package that they offer,

991
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,040
Yeah, I had the same thing in
Canada and I didn't even have

992
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,600
phone connectors in my house.
Like I couldn't even connect the

993
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,720
phone if I wanted to.
I had none of the plugs.

994
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,400
Once, probably once a year,
maybe twice a year.

995
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,120
Our phone rings on the TV.
It's probably Comcast trying to

996
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,760
sell you a an upgrade or
something, right?

997
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,040
Yeah, it's optimum.
And it just, it's like that's

998
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,520
literally how often I guess some
probably, you know some

999
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,040
telemarketer gets it because and
my life has that phone number

1000
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:24,960
and it's just we're watching, my
husband and I are watching a

1001
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,320
movie or something and it says
like incoming call on our

1002
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,360
television.
And we're like, what is that?

1003
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,240
What do?
We do whoa.

1004
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,240
Yeah, Oh yeah.
We have a phone.

1005
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:34,800
We have a phone number.
We don't have a phone.

1006
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,200
That's hilarious.
Yeah, it's it's it's amazing.

1007
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,880
I I love and hate technology,
you know?

1008
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,320
And I love all the good parts
and hate most of the bad ones.

1009
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,200
And I probably hate some of the
good ones too, because, you

1010
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,920
know, it's like my girlfriend
and I were just talking about

1011
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,520
this a few minutes ago, but
TikTok, I don't have it.

1012
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,800
You know, I've never had it.
I never downloaded the app.

1013
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,360
So if they ban it, it's not
going to impact me.

1014
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,320
But what does that mean?
If they ban it?

1015
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,880
Like, usually there's a hidden
meaning behind that.

1016
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,920
It's not just TikTok that
they're after.

1017
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,360
So you got to be really careful
when the government is

1018
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,440
introducing new legislation on
what is the real meaning of

1019
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,760
this, because usually the one
that's written on the label at

1020
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,360
the front isn't, isn't exactly
what they're trying to do,

1021
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,760
right?
So, but, you know, I was like,

1022
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,960
the last thing I need is another
app to suck the hours out of my

1023
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,320
day so I can sit and watch funny
cat videos or whatever, because,

1024
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,560
you know, it's dopamine.
It's it's so easy to just sit

1025
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,080
there for an hour and go, oh,
that's funny.

1026
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,240
Oh, this one's funny too.
Oh, this one's funny too.

1027
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,960
And next thing you know, you've
blown off like 10 things you

1028
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:39,760
were supposed to do, right?
Right.

1029
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,280
And the attention spans we used
to have, and I mean that not

1030
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,360
just general relationally for me
too, Right.

1031
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,320
You notice that it's like I
really want to digest things in

1032
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:48,560
like 30 second bits.
Like what?

1033
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,520
Where did that come from?
I used to be able to sit down

1034
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,680
and read a nice book.
Right now it's like everything

1035
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,720
is fast.
My God, Marcel, we sound so old.

1036
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,120
We sound so.
Old.

1037
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,720
Well, you know what?
Compared to most of these people

1038
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:03,600
that you know are involved in
technology and stuff these days,

1039
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,920
we are old, unfortunately.
But I like being old, to be

1040
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,880
perfectly honest.
Like I I don't know that I'd

1041
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,160
want to be 20 today to, to be
honest with you.

1042
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,040
I like that.
You know, I was around when all

1043
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,600
of these big changes happened.
I was around before there was

1044
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,320
Internet.
I was around, you know, for so

1045
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,280
many of these advancements.
Moving lights, you know, I saw

1046
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,280
moving lights happen, you know,
and and can tell everyone the

1047
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:27,880
story of what it looked like,
right.

1048
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,720
Yeah.
And so I like that like I like

1049
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,360
you know that really the
industry started not long before

1050
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,000
I started in the industry and
and that's kind of fun.

1051
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,840
And how much it's changed, you
know, very quickly but.

1052
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,760
Yeah.
So I want to talk to you a bit

1053
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,240
about LD.
I I want to talk a lot about you

1054
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:50,480
too, but I want to talk a bit
about LDI because you know I've

1055
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,880
grown up going to the show, not
grown up, but I I've gone to the

1056
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,680
show since the very beginning.
Actually last year I think was

1057
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,920
the 2nd show ever that I.
Never that you missed.

1058
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:04,160
I I I know you said that.
Yeah, so, which I was really

1059
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,560
bummed about because it sounded
like it was the best show you

1060
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,040
guys ever had.
And everyone was like, Oh my

1061
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,480
God, this is such an amazing
show.

1062
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,680
Everyone's here, you know?
Yeah, except me.

1063
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,960
Loser.
And but anyways, you know it's

1064
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,560
obviously evolved.
It's it's changed a lot and it

1065
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,640
got a little confusing over the
past 20 years because honestly,

1066
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,720
and I'm not just being silly,
but honestly I couldn't remember

1067
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,400
what the company was called half
the time because it was like it

1068
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,240
it was owned by this group and
then it was sort of owned by

1069
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,600
this group, but it was part of
this group over here and then it

1070
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,760
was owned by this group and it.
So do me a favor and give me a

1071
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:47,320
timeline on on where the show
how it became what it is today.

1072
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,520
Oh boy.
OK, For the record, I haven't

1073
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,800
been with the show since the
inception, although I know I can

1074
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,720
give you that 20 years.
But I have been going to the

1075
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,920
show since 1996.
So I have a.

1076
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,000
So Pat McKay obviously started
the show.

1077
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,800
We're at, I think 35 years this
year.

1078
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,640
And people like Ellen Lampert
Grayo, who is our creative

1079
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,680
director for the conference, was
there when the show started.

1080
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:22,320
Yeah, Pat, after a good number
of years, she was the owner and

1081
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,000
producer of the show, sold it to
I believe Intertech Publishing

1082
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:31,680
was the first sale and she this
is all before my time.

1083
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,280
So Pat, if you're listening or
Ellen will correct me on this if

1084
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,120
I'm speaking out of turn.
Pat, I I can't remember if she

1085
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,720
consulted for a little bit or
she just kind of exited because

1086
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,160
she did start publishing.
She started doing a whole, you

1087
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,480
know, host of wonderful other
things.

1088
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,880
And so, yeah, it's been through
a number of, you know, corporate

1089
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:59,560
owners as it were when I joined.
We were Primedia Business

1090
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:05,360
Publishing.
We had a entire division that

1091
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,040
was considered more like a
consumer, but enthusiasts like

1092
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:16,040
you know powder magazine for
skiers, hiking like very sports

1093
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:21,480
enthusiasts section and we
separated from that division.

1094
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:28,720
We actually sold that division
and became Penton.

1095
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:34,920
Now we bought Penton, but it was
kind of like their name.

1096
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,080
What had more pedigree because
it was like 100 year old

1097
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:38,880
publishing company.
So we bought Penton.

1098
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,440
We took on the name of Penton
after being Prime Media and then

1099
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,240
subsequently so then two more
sales after we were Penton, we

1100
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:50,200
were bought by Informa,
Humongous, Global Show and

1101
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,480
Publishing Company and then from
Informa.

1102
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:59,560
So Informa actually bought
Penton, but then Informa Informa

1103
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,920
subsequently a few years later
sold off some of its properties.

1104
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,880
So Informa still exists.
Our current owner is called

1105
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,200
Quest X.
Quest X just bought some of the

1106
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,040
some of the properties including
LDI.

1107
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:15,360
So yes, our our owner right now
since 2019 is Quest X, hence my.

1108
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,240
Confusion.
Yeah, total well confusion,

1109
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,920
yeah.
And like, yeah, so I'm on like

1110
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,760
123, probably 4th, 5th, 4th or
5th owner.

1111
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,600
But I think the nice thing about
it is this, if you're with a

1112
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:35,120
good company that produces you,
you know, understands things

1113
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,800
like audience and data
acquisition and getting to the

1114
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,120
right people and knows how to
produce events and do

1115
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,840
publishing, it's sort of doesn't
really matter.

1116
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,280
You know, actually I like
working with Quest X more 'cause

1117
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,920
it's smaller than our former,
our our former owners.

1118
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:57,040
You could really get lost in a
large company like that and and

1119
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,680
so yeah, it's just a matter of
as long as you know the brands

1120
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,840
and I think and we I have worked
for folks who have said, oh you

1121
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,240
have to say it's this company
and we'd be like, yeah, but

1122
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,560
nobody knows.
Who's.

1123
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,840
Telling me like we want to be
the strength of the brands,

1124
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,080
right?
People understand the strength

1125
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,480
of the brands more than
necessarily who who owns you at

1126
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,320
any given time.
Well, and to be quite honest, if

1127
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,480
it were an independent trade
show, slash magazine, slash

1128
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:30,520
media company, whatever owned
and operated by Pat today, it it

1129
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,320
would have ceased to exist.
You know, like she couldn't have

1130
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,040
carried it through the turmoil.
I don't care how much money

1131
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,720
you've got it.
It's not just money.

1132
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,200
It's resources.
It's it's marketing.

1133
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,080
It's all of that back office
stuff that being part of a

1134
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,040
conglomerate or a group, I
should say, instead of

1135
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:47,800
conglomerate.
Yeah.

1136
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,080
So, yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's
nice to be able to go, you know,

1137
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,960
we need to do this.
Oh, my God, how are we?

1138
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,360
Oh, we've got a division over
here that can help us with that,

1139
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,120
you know?
It's no joke.

1140
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,280
And you know, I, I mean, one
thing's I'm, I'm not proud of

1141
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,480
for me because this certainly
wasn't my call or my decision.

1142
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,560
But we, you know, you and I
talked a lot during COVID and

1143
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,960
and you were a very big
supporter of LDI for anybody

1144
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:14,960
else.
In fact, you had me on when we

1145
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,440
were kind of having the show
back and I will always be

1146
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,520
forever grateful for that.
But we didn't lay anyone off,

1147
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,440
right.
Our group is intact through

1148
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:30,040
COVID and we produce events.
So I mean that is a remarkable,

1149
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:35,760
remarkable feat that I thought
was really you know, our

1150
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,120
management seeing the forest for
the trees and being like you

1151
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,080
know this, this is our long
game.

1152
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,600
This isn't like you know, maybe
LDI will survive, maybe it

1153
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:45,960
won't.
It was looking at it saying this

1154
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,400
is a 30 plus year business
that's been around and it has

1155
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,800
really loyal customers and is
going to build and have new

1156
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:53,840
customers and there's a need for
it too.

1157
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:55,320
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah.

1158
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,080
You know, you proved that the
year that we came back and was

1159
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,720
it smaller, But were people
bloody happy to like hug each

1160
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:04,720
other with silly masks on and
stuff?

1161
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:06,840
Absolutely.
You know, everyone was so happy

1162
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,960
to see other humans.
So no, it's and I mean, to be

1163
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,840
perfectly honest, again, another
pat on the back for you and and

1164
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,880
the team and Ellen and everyone
else is that.

1165
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,680
So certainly COVID was obviously
a massive challenge and you

1166
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,080
know, I applaud you all for
getting through that.

1167
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:30,120
But even beyond that, you know,
prior to COVID, I remember the

1168
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,200
one year and I could probably
even guess what year it was.

1169
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:38,760
I'm guessing it was around 2010,
but when Martin wasn't even

1170
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,960
going to do the show.
And then they decided to do it

1171
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,520
and they had like a couple
lights sitting on road cases.

1172
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:47,200
They didn't even have carpet.
And like all the booths were

1173
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,640
smaller.
And it was just like everyone

1174
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,120
called each other and went, hey,
screw these people, we're going

1175
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,000
to do a small booth this year
and we don't need all these big

1176
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:59,720
expenses.
And at that point, I basically

1177
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,600
thought, wow, you know, this
might be over because they've

1178
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,720
found other ways like obviously
with the advent of the Internet

1179
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,320
and how it grew and provided all
kinds of opportunity to to show

1180
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,640
product and then these Rd. shows
that everyone does and smaller

1181
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,520
regional shows and stuff you
don't like.

1182
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,720
It used to be where the only
shot as a manufacturer that we

1183
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,720
had to show our product was, you
know, Yeah, well, no, it was

1184
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:26,560
Plaza.
It was Remini.

1185
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:31,320
It was Pro Light and Stage.
It was Pro Light and sound.

1186
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,280
Sorry, LBI.
Yeah, it was.

1187
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,280
It was that whole circuit of
shows and there was a start of

1188
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,600
that circuit and all of the
engineering was done so that we

1189
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,840
could have new products at the
start of the trade show season.

1190
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:50,080
And so then it went from that to
we're releasing products every

1191
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,760
month of the year.
There is no cycle anymore.

1192
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,560
And we can show people on the
Internet or we'll fly them to

1193
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,480
our office or we'll go out and
do little Regional Rd. shows.

1194
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:04,240
And so honestly, I I was ready
to put a fork in LDI at that

1195
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,280
point.
I was like, Oh my God, you know,

1196
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,600
this is bad.
And I heard the trucks, right?

1197
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:13,120
Everybody started touring trucks
and Martin had one.

1198
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,880
I think Wybron had one.
And yeah, and that that

1199
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,000
definitely gave us pause, too,
'cause it was like, what?

1200
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:23,480
You're spending a lot of money
on that truck, right?

1201
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,120
And obviously you can go to any
city.

1202
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,600
So for us was kind of like, man,
if everybody does this, we are.

1203
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:28,680
We're not in a.
Good place.

1204
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:31,640
By the way, you weren't the only
ones.

1205
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:35,600
So like I'm when I was in
Canada, I was more in the music

1206
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,320
business than the lighting
business, music retail.

1207
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,480
And so Canada's version of Nam
is Meak.

1208
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,760
And I don't know if it still
exists today, but it did at the

1209
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,360
time, Music Industry Association
Canada.

1210
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:51,280
And so I've seen it happen there
and at Nam, where large

1211
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,400
manufacturers at some point
flipped the bird to the

1212
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,200
organization and said we're
going to do our own demo.

1213
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,800
And I remember it was Roland, It
was either Roland or Yamaha, I

1214
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,760
can't remember.
So if I misquoted, I'm sorry,

1215
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,200
but this was probably in the
late 80s, maybe 1990.

1216
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,440
They said screw you to to MIAC.
And MIAC was held at the

1217
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:17,280
Convention Center, downtown
Vancouver, and they rented a

1218
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:21,360
huge boat, cruise ship, yacht,
whatever the hell it was.

1219
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,400
And they docked it right there
next to the Convention Center.

1220
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,840
And they had their own trade
show for either Roland or

1221
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:29,160
Yamaha.
I think it was Roland.

1222
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:35,160
And you know, obviously that
caused a massive, you know, rift

1223
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,800
between them and the MIAC show.
And I've seen similar things

1224
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,280
with Nam, where, you know,
companies would rent ballrooms

1225
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,320
at at neighboring hotels and
stuff and have their own little

1226
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:49,520
convention in those ballrooms.
And it's, it's nasty and I've

1227
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:52,520
seen people do it to LDI too,
you know, even recently.

1228
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,440
And it's nasty like, I mean, if
you're going to support the

1229
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,920
industry and support the show,
don't just go there and poach

1230
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:00,640
their customers.
Like that's not fair.

1231
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,240
Yeah.
And I mean that's honestly, it

1232
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:07,920
is a challenge because we we
don't profess to be you know the

1233
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,400
Church of LDI like you got to
come, you got to come.

1234
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,880
But certainly if you're going to
come to town and go off site

1235
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,680
somewhere you're you're
definitely on our coattails

1236
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,440
because we're you know spending
all this money on mark marketing

1237
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,880
and building the show and
bringing people to town and then

1238
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:24,720
you're going to take them off
our show floors it.

1239
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,480
It can be very frustrating and
we, I, we've had customers who

1240
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,160
say, well your show is too
expensive, but what's like, well

1241
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,640
what part of the expense is
bringing you the right people

1242
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,440
and putting them in front of you
or someone we've had say, you

1243
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,400
know, but we're really small, we
can't afford to do it and we're

1244
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:41,280
obviously happy to work with
someone on creating some what

1245
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:43,120
about.
Sanctioning.

1246
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,160
What about sanctioning off site
events?

1247
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,560
You know, and this is a crazy
out there idea that I've never

1248
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,720
given much thought to, but what
about actually sanctioning and

1249
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:54,280
saying, you know, you can do
your own show at a ballroom.

1250
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,760
We'll promote it in all of the
LDI literature and LDI

1251
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,920
promotional machine and
everything else.

1252
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,400
We'll promote it just as though
you're an exhibitor.

1253
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,960
You're going to pay us a fee and
you can do your own logistics.

1254
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,280
You can go do it in the hotel.
You won't have to pay drayage

1255
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:13,640
and all of the union fees and
all of that stuff and you know,

1256
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,120
so I don't know like that might
be an idea down the road because

1257
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,000
you're gonna run out of exhibit
space maybe at some point.

1258
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:21,399
I don't know.
I doubt it 'cause they keep

1259
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:25,000
building more but.
From your lips.

1260
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,439
From your lips.
Well, I mean, if these booths

1261
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,840
keep getting bigger like they
have been recently, Jesus, thank

1262
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,600
God we're back to the big trade
show booths.

1263
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,120
But.
It is an enormous.

1264
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,399
Expense it is.
Oh, it's enormous and we we

1265
01:08:38,399 --> 01:08:41,520
totally know that.
But I mean the expense of doing

1266
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:46,399
a show like LDI is not
necessarily renting a booth from

1267
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,319
from me or Kelly and my sales
team, right.

1268
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:53,120
The expenses, everything else,
it's stray edge and it's you you

1269
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:57,040
know from having assets and
bringing your people out right

1270
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,120
and building it and labor and
all that fun stuff that goes

1271
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,319
into it, which is you know it's
a production so it's it's quite

1272
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,439
production so.
Is booth space itself going up

1273
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:10,680
in in cost though like or is it
remaining relatively stable or

1274
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,680
like I don't?
Know, I mean we increase for you

1275
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,439
know, standard of living
increases kind of inflation but

1276
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,399
not, you know, it's not, it's
not ridiculous but it is.

1277
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:24,880
But we can't control you know
labor costs or or catering costs

1278
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,720
which by the way you know, we
incur the same costs as our own

1279
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:30,520
customers because we build
stuff, right.

1280
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,680
We build our own stuff.
We build our own activations in

1281
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:37,359
our own stages and we build
lounges and and we have to rent

1282
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,960
couches and so we we, you know,
we spend that money too.

1283
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,560
So we see it.
So we we can of course

1284
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,279
empathize.
And and just so you know,

1285
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:49,279
because not everybody who's
listening is part of a large

1286
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:51,960
company or whatever, just so you
understand what we're talking

1287
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,800
about.
So I know that some of your

1288
01:09:54,800 --> 01:10:00,880
larger exhibitors are spending
in advance of $500,000 to do a

1289
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:05,320
single trade show and probably
some even closer to $1,000,000.

1290
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:11,120
That is a lot of money for three
days of hosting guests at their

1291
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,840
booth.
And if you ask them on Sunday

1292
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,240
night, they usually go, wow,
that was amazing.

1293
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,160
Yeah, it's so worth it.
But you ask them for the four

1294
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,400
months leading up to it, and
they'll be like, I don't know

1295
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,120
why we do this damn show every
year.

1296
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:25,320
You know, because it's a massive
expense.

1297
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:30,960
And it's really, it's very hard
if not impossible to earn back

1298
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,920
whatever you have paid to do
that booth at that show.

1299
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,520
Like you're not gonna write
enough orders to pay for your

1300
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,320
booth at that show.
At the show, right?

1301
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,720
But you have to assume the ROI
is there or people wouldn't do

1302
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,600
it, right?
It's a 12 month like I always

1303
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:48,400
with all the companies that I
was in command of including mine

1304
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:52,720
today trade shows, you split
them equally over 12 months.

1305
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,600
Basically you don't do it in the
month that you have the trade

1306
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,280
show because honestly the
revenue is going to come back to

1307
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:00,360
you over 12 months, not in that
one month, right.

1308
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:05,840
So but you know it is an
enormous expense and and I'm

1309
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,520
sure it's a big concern and I'm
sure you have meetings with

1310
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:10,360
every one of these companies
every year.

1311
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:13,000
You know, Marion, is there
anything we could do to to lower

1312
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:14,800
the costs here a little bit for
us?

1313
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,440
And you know, the only thing you
could do is is dampen your ego a

1314
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:23,360
little bit and don't build such
enormous booths, you know, don't

1315
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,000
make them so high.
Don't bring so many.

1316
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,240
Lights, whatever it is.
And gosh, what what you say

1317
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,640
about a few years ago or at this
point, you know, many years ago,

1318
01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:35,640
you know the ebb and flow of
absolutely, you know, people

1319
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:37,920
getting together and saying we
don't want to do this anymore

1320
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:41,040
And then but there's always a
tipping point whereas someone

1321
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,280
goes, no one's doing that big
booth anymore.

1322
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,040
So now we're going to do, we're
going to be the one we're not

1323
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:46,920
going to call anybody.
I mean it always happens.

1324
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:48,880
It it just takes for you to look
at the floor plan, right, and

1325
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:53,560
see who's got, who's got the
biggest, you know, footprint and

1326
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,960
to know who's going to do it and
who's not.

1327
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:58,160
But yeah, of course people talk
to each other.

1328
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:02,160
When it happened, I remember
because it went from Martin and

1329
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:05,520
High End and Vera Lite being the
biggest booths to all of a

1330
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,360
sudden it was Chauvet and
Elation were the biggest booths

1331
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:13,600
and and you know this.
So it kind of went like this and

1332
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,680
you know guess who grew their
companies really, really quickly

1333
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,560
were Chauvet Inhalation and you
know Martin went through a

1334
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,280
minute and High End obviously
went through many minutes.

1335
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:27,680
And so there is something to
being the big dog at at the LDI

1336
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:29,160
show, you know?
There, I like what you're

1337
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:31,720
saying.
What you're saying is having a

1338
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,640
big presence at LDI equals
success.

1339
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,320
I like I that.
That's what I'm hearing you say

1340
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:37,960
it's.
Not exactly what I'm saying, but

1341
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,520
it's very, very similar, very
similar, very similar to what

1342
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,960
I'm saying.
No, appreciate I I do believe

1343
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,760
that.
You know, I think that if I look

1344
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,880
back at the history of my
history in this industry, LDI

1345
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,920
shows for us were the high point
of the year.

1346
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:00,000
And you know, I, I hate to say
it, but the last big show that I

1347
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,720
was responsible for myself, you
know, and I did some with Komar

1348
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,200
and I did some with with
Gearsource as well.

1349
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:12,720
But the last big booth, big show
was Martin at Miami Beach.

1350
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:18,840
And you know, that year and
again this was 1996 I think or

1351
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:22,960
seven.
That year, our budget was

1352
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,800
500,550. 1000.
Dollars.

1353
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:29,880
That was a lot of money.
You know, like and also

1354
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,280
Martin's.
I assume you were at Martin in

1355
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:34,960
the years of the the massive
Martin parties, right?

1356
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:36,160
That would happen.
This was it.

1357
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,320
This was it.
Yeah, this was the one on the

1358
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,640
beach with KC and the Sunshine
Band and stuff.

1359
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:44,360
That was the same year and you
know I had to get creative

1360
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:48,760
because we had a half million
dollar budget and 750,000 in in

1361
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:53,480
wishes and we had to get a
little bit creative and we made

1362
01:13:53,480 --> 01:13:56,520
it happen and was everything
perfect?

1363
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,360
No.
And but it's still one of the

1364
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:05,600
most memorable booths and
parties I think at LDI so.

1365
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:07,600
I'm pretty sure that you're
right.

1366
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,200
Probably was representing Clay
Pack and I was very jealous

1367
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,280
because my boss didn't want me
to go to your party.

1368
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:15,480
Oh, you weren't there because we
had all the high end guys.

1369
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:18,720
They had a cigar party on top of
some building or something and

1370
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,600
they all left there and came
over to our party after and we

1371
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:23,200
had most of the other
manufacturers there.

1372
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,520
I mean we had 6000 people at
that party on the beach with KC

1373
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,120
and the Sunshine band.
It was crazy.

1374
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:33,240
Funny story which I've told
before, but we had a bar tab, so

1375
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:36,200
I had an event planner that
basically put most of the stuff

1376
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:40,440
together and we had a bar tab
going all night so people had

1377
01:14:40,440 --> 01:14:44,040
drink tickets that we gave out.
We bought, I don't know, 20,000

1378
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:46,840
drink tickets or something.
But I also had a tab going

1379
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,840
inside, not on the beach but
inside the bar, which was called

1380
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:55,240
Penrods.
And so it was like 1:00 in the

1381
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,720
morning or something.
And the the event planner came

1382
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,760
up to me and she goes, Marcel,
they're getting a little nervous

1383
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,640
inside and they'd like you to
pay your tab.

1384
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:04,600
And I said, OK, give me two
seconds.

1385
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,160
And I look around and I see
Peter Johansson, the former CEO

1386
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:09,360
founder.
Of of.

1387
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:13,200
Martin and I see him standing,
having a conversation with

1388
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:17,080
someone, and I was talking.
When she came up to me, I was

1389
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:21,280
talking with.
I don't remember who it was.

1390
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,600
Broderick.
John Broderick, Metallica's LD

1391
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,040
at the time.
And so I go over to Peter and I

1392
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:28,760
go, Peter, I need a credit card
and he goes, what for?

1393
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,600
And I go, I need to buy a drink
for John Broderick over there.

1394
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:33,960
Oh, Metallica's guy.
And I said, yeah.

1395
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,440
And he goes, OK, OK And he pulls
out his American Express card

1396
01:15:36,440 --> 01:15:38,960
and gives it to me.
So I go and pay the tab and it's

1397
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,160
like, I don't know, 40 grand or
something, right.

1398
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,680
And so I go and I give him the
receipt to sign it.

1399
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:48,080
And he's talking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1400
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:49,760
And he looks down at the receipt
and he goes to sign it.

1401
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,880
He goes, holy shit, Marcel, what
was he drinking?

1402
01:15:54,960 --> 01:16:00,360
I scammed him into the bar tab.
But no, I mean, I I can't tell

1403
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,360
you how many memories I have at
that show.

1404
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:06,680
Funny, great, wonderful
memories.

1405
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:09,440
You know much better when I was
younger, 'cause I can't stay up

1406
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:13,120
quite as late as I used to, but.
Like once, Yeah, I.

1407
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:16,760
Mean, you know, we went hard for
a lot of years, that's for sure.

1408
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,400
And and just so many incredible
memories, so many friends, so

1409
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:25,080
many wonderful things.
But yeah, I mean, you know, the

1410
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,480
big show thing, everyone's going
to complain or the big booth

1411
01:16:27,480 --> 01:16:29,760
thing, everyone's going to
complain and say I spent so much

1412
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:31,160
money.
But then at the end of the show,

1413
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:33,920
like I said, I, I call and talk
to these people and I'd like,

1414
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:36,160
how did it go?
And they say, Oh my God, it was

1415
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,000
one of the best shows we've ever
had.

1416
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,680
You know, this was really well
received.

1417
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:41,720
This was well received.
This was really well received

1418
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:46,840
and but again, if you ask them,
if you ask them in June or July,

1419
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,680
they're like, oh God, we're not
gonna do it next year, you know,

1420
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,920
or whatever, right?
But it's such an important show

1421
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,120
and it it I think will continue
to be.

1422
01:16:55,120 --> 01:17:00,120
But like how are you guys
combating some of those things

1423
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:03,400
like or or augmenting or
whatever you want to call it,

1424
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,880
but the things where companies
are looking at alternative ways

1425
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,840
to get together with their
customers or alternative ways to

1426
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,560
show their products, new
products.

1427
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,720
Yeah.
I mean part of it is, you know,

1428
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:17,320
just appreciating that it's
going to happen, right, and

1429
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:21,080
saying how can we can we support
you in in that effort Because

1430
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:25,040
people really just do appreciate
if you say, oh, you know, make

1431
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:26,960
sure you send us a press release
and a photo about that because

1432
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,200
we'll publicize it.
You know, we'll help you get the

1433
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:32,240
word out about it.
And I think that level of

1434
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,280
support and kind of customer
service is important because we

1435
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:37,080
want these folks to come back,
right.

1436
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,360
We recognize that they spend a
lot of money whether it's with

1437
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:43,560
us or a Convention Center or or
or the labor that they're paying

1438
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,160
for that expense that we're
talking about.

1439
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,640
We we still recognize that that
first and foremost there are

1440
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:52,160
customers and I I think that you
know exceptional service is just

1441
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:59,960
always kind of #1 and we have,
we still have a bonkers rebook

1442
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:04,120
rate on site for next year.
So I think this year and and so

1443
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:08,440
and obviously that was really
quiet during COVID and obviously

1444
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:13,320
quiet during COVID but in the
late years you know 2/21/22 were

1445
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,600
a little bit softer rebook than
we usually have on site.

1446
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:21,080
But this year I mean we were
over 60% resign of who was there

1447
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,480
for 24.
So that obviously gives us a

1448
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:26,920
really good kick you know into
the next year.

1449
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,960
And then and then you know Q1 we
just you know people started

1450
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,360
looking at our floor plan and
they they're looking at it

1451
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,360
filling up pretty quickly and
and that really does you know

1452
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,240
that kind of snowballs into
people starting to think about

1453
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:41,720
it.
And also, you know, when you

1454
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,280
look at things you're talking
about like these really big

1455
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:47,720
booths and how much investment
goes into it, people have to

1456
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,240
think about that well in
advance, right?

1457
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,920
The thing that they're doing a
lot of these folks at LDI is a

1458
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,600
production unto itself, right?
They're going to have a very

1459
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,240
intricately programmed show and
maybe they're going to, you

1460
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:00,720
know, play some music or have a
performer and this is going to

1461
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,040
last at, you know, could be 10
minutes long.

1462
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:05,440
And where they're going to hire
to do that if they're not using

1463
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:07,360
one of their own folks to to
program it.

1464
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,480
So they're already thinking
about this.

1465
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:13,320
I mean, we have conversations in
our sales office with folks

1466
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,120
coming in.
They're already talking about

1467
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:18,160
either what they're going to
tweak on their design from this

1468
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:20,760
year or what they're going to
change, you know, entirely Like

1469
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:23,640
I want to get that face because
we're going to do the dancers

1470
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,240
this year or we're going to do
the band next year or so.

1471
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:31,080
It it really in in some ways it
takes.

1472
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:33,640
I don't want to take away from
our team and saying that there's

1473
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,160
a lot of effort that goes in,
but in some ways it's it has a

1474
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:40,040
life of itself, right?
There is loyalty there, which is

1475
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,160
you know if you had a good show
that people you know come into

1476
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:46,040
the sales office and they book
it and and then the rest of the

1477
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:49,880
year, you know we're we're
really just putting forward you

1478
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,800
know trying to create new
initiatives, new activations,

1479
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:56,880
new areas of content, right for
our programs, our conference

1480
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:59,280
programs and training.
You know the hands on training

1481
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,440
is never going to get old.
So it's like someone needs to

1482
01:20:02,440 --> 01:20:04,120
learn a console.
They're going to come learn a.

1483
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,320
Console, yeah, I was, I was
going to say you guys are doing

1484
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:12,080
such a great job with with some
of these new things like new you

1485
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:16,040
know whatever you call it, new
initiatives or whatever the the

1486
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:20,920
busking thing I saw, you know
really interesting and and I

1487
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,440
think that's going really well,
right.

1488
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,280
Yeah, and really fun too.
So we did.

1489
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:29,160
We we started the busking a
couple years ago and it was kind

1490
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:33,440
of in a ballroom.
It was quieter.

1491
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:36,880
It was like a an experience
where everybody had their

1492
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,120
training and then there was a
competition at the end, but it

1493
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,000
wasn't as front and center as we
made it this year.

1494
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:45,840
So this year it was in the back
at the Circle bar on this huge

1495
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:51,680
stage and these folks signed up
to do you know a day, I think it

1496
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:55,120
was 2 days actually of a full on
training like learning.

1497
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,200
And we had people who came in
who never touched a console

1498
01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:59,840
before.
I don't know we would choose to

1499
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:01,320
do that.
But you were kind of like this

1500
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:02,880
looks groovy.
I'm going to come and do this

1501
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:05,920
and then and we put them in
teams, right.

1502
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,440
So we had a manufacturer
sponsoring the you you want

1503
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:13,800
someone to learn this console,
give us some consoles and they

1504
01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:17,720
spent this day train these
couple days training and then

1505
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,120
had a competition.
So during our party, during our

1506
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:24,480
industry party at the Circle Bar
in the back of the hall was the

1507
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,040
the competition.
We kind of like did the

1508
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,560
competition.
So, yes, so and then we had like

1509
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:32,240
an overhead camera where you
could see who was calling the

1510
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:36,840
show, who was running the board
and these teams of four and

1511
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:37,680
then.
Who voted?

1512
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,400
You could vote on the app.
So people watching voted.

1513
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,560
Yeah, So people watching voted.
Yeah, very, very two point O.

1514
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:52,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it was, it was really

1515
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:53,320
lively.
Do you know what I mean?

1516
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:57,440
And say it wasn't like a demo or
an award ceremony, which let's

1517
01:21:57,440 --> 01:21:59,440
face it, we're going to do those
forever in a day because we want

1518
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:02,200
to give awards to products and
recognize our exhibitors.

1519
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:05,880
But this was a super and it was
like standing room only.

1520
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:09,600
I mean that whole back area
where we set up seating was was

1521
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,960
completely packed.
And yeah, then there's people

1522
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:13,960
are going to sit around the bar
and chat and but they're kind of

1523
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:15,720
like I was going.
To say it doesn't hurt that

1524
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:18,120
there's a bar there.
There's a bar there.

1525
01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:20,400
Well, we had tons, tons of
seating with people just

1526
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:22,360
sitting, you know, theater
style, like watching this

1527
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:23,960
competition.
So who won?

1528
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:24,480
You're going.
To ask.

1529
01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:29,680
That I don't remember.
I'll have to look it up.

1530
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:31,000
It's all good.
It's all good.

1531
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,080
I was just curious.
I may not even know them, but.

1532
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:36,080
No, they have Great.
No, they you wouldn't.

1533
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:38,040
You wouldn't know them.
These are not, these are not

1534
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:39,680
designers and programmers who
came in to do this.

1535
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,080
These are people who came to
learn how to do this and then

1536
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:44,520
kind of competition at the end
of.

1537
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,480
Two days of cleaning this isn't
proper designers who already

1538
01:22:47,480 --> 01:22:49,360
have gigs in the industry and
stuff.

1539
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,560
This is for beginners.
They were being taught by

1540
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,160
designers and programmers.
Yeah, yeah, it was great.

1541
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,000
It was.
And listen, the shows were good,

1542
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,000
The shows were great and the
shows were great.

1543
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:01,560
For something where where are
you getting these people from?

1544
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,040
A mix.
They can register for it.

1545
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:06,080
If you went on to our website
you would register for it and

1546
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:09,880
then you you participated and
they were all different levels

1547
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:13,000
like some somewhere had like you
know programming light

1548
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:17,080
background and some I tell you
never touched a console so it

1549
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,880
was.
So what you're saying is I got.

1550
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:22,640
A chance?
I got a chance.

1551
01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:27,000
You know, you don't think after
20 years of doing this that I've

1552
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,520
looked at that and been like,
why don't I just take that

1553
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:30,680
class?
That seems like that would be

1554
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:32,040
really fun.
Why don't I do that?

1555
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,480
I have all this access to
training and I could, I could

1556
01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:35,320
maybe learn.
A thing.

1557
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:38,640
Plus, God knows what programmers
are being paid these days, so

1558
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:42,040
not a bad career move.
Good day, Ray.

1559
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:43,880
Good day, Ray.
You get your T&E, you get your

1560
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:45,600
beer money, you get your
catering.

1561
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:49,440
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
You're you're not wrong there.

1562
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:56,040
Yeah, so I I asked a mutual
friend to give me a question to

1563
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:59,640
ask you and and you're not gonna
like this one, but I was told to

1564
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:01,320
ask you if you ever learned to
cook.

1565
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:08,000
Oh, well, that's interesting.
That's really interesting.

1566
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,920
You ask me that because, yeah, I
was kind of known among friends

1567
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:15,960
and family and apparently secret
acquaintances who that would be,

1568
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,880
but that I did not cook.
And people would say, like,

1569
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:21,480
well, you have a child, how do
you not cook?

1570
01:24:21,480 --> 01:24:24,040
And let's be fair, like
everybody cooks a little bit,

1571
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:26,760
but iMac?
And cheese.

1572
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,360
I could make a Mac and cheese,
however, I didn't enjoy.

1573
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,880
I didn't enjoy it.
And I will say though, in

1574
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:39,960
probably the last 10 or so
years, I have really taken like,

1575
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:43,360
I really love to cook now.
So I, I cook all kinds of

1576
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:44,320
things.
Yeah.

1577
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,560
And I love making that, you
know, like everybody loves

1578
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:49,040
Italian food.
So that's like an easy, low

1579
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:51,000
hanging fruit.
I feel like to cook.

1580
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:55,240
But I like making, you know,
Indian and Greek and you know,

1581
01:24:55,440 --> 01:24:59,520
all kinds of really
experimenting and ramen.

1582
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,360
In fact, I made ramen yesterday,
Thai, coconut Curry, ramen if

1583
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:03,760
you must know.
So yeah.

1584
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:06,720
Nice.
Yes.

1585
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:10,280
What I would not ask that quite.
Yeah, that's I mean.

1586
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:12,400
Well, I wasn't gonna either, but
I was.

1587
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,400
I just decided to wing it and
throw it out there anyway.

1588
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:18,560
Must be someone who knows me
very well.

1589
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:23,800
So I was looking, I was looking
for, you know, stats and stuff

1590
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:28,960
on social media for you and I
see that it was, you haven't

1591
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:31,560
uploaded a new YouTube video in
a while.

1592
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,680
That makes sense because I don't
do a lot of content anymore.

1593
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:41,360
So 11 years though?
Like, it's I I feel like YouTube

1594
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,840
was barely even invented 11
years ago, but you stopped.

1595
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:47,680
I was ahead of the curve YouTube
channel and then I stopped.

1596
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,080
I was ahead of the curve and
then I just stopped probably cuz

1597
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:53,560
I was doing it more for work,
you know.

1598
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,800
So it was probably on our in our
content channel more.

1599
01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:00,160
So are you a big YouTube or are
you a big social media?

1600
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:02,800
Like I know you talked about it
a little bit where you said, you

1601
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,560
know on the personal side you
kind of keep it on the down low

1602
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:10,040
a little bit, but more from a
business persona standpoint or

1603
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,320
whatever.
But do you post a lot or not

1604
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:16,400
really?
I'm probably medium, yeah.

1605
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:21,120
You know, I like I share a lot
of stuff that you know we're

1606
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:23,000
we're marketing for the shows
etcetera.

1607
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:25,800
I don't.
I I feel like I probably should,

1608
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,880
but I don't probably put enough
of my own personal brands out

1609
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:34,680
there like, which would for, you
know, probably for professional

1610
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:37,280
or personal growth.
But yeah, I find it.

1611
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:43,720
I find as I've gotten older,
there's a lot of noise in social

1612
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:48,040
media, which is not great for my
anxiety.

1613
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:50,200
Yeah, I'm with you.
I'm.

1614
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:51,600
With you, I mean.
So it's holiday.

1615
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:53,880
Comments.
But I do, you know, I'm telling

1616
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:56,800
you I do.
And they make me sad or angry or

1617
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:00,240
whatever sometimes, right?
Yeah, sometimes you go on there

1618
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,720
and I'm, I'll just click on
something that I think is

1619
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:04,000
interesting because I want to
read it.

1620
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:08,680
And then when you read comments
and how people argue about, you

1621
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,840
know, people who don't even know
each other, it's really vexing

1622
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:14,240
to me.
So it's like I like the sort of

1623
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:18,640
democratization of content and
how people can really put stuff

1624
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:22,600
out there.
But you know it goes with goes

1625
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:28,120
along with so misinformation a
lot of misinformation a lot of

1626
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:30,600
people just arguing about stuff
that is kind of like doesn't

1627
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:31,880
feel like necessarily healthy
for him.

1628
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:36,280
So I'm I'm of, I'm always kind
of on the fence about balancing

1629
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,600
that.
And I do have to habitually walk

1630
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,440
away from it, you know, Not.
Not for, not for periods of

1631
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:43,160
time, but like if I'm reading
something, I have to go.

1632
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,280
I'm with you like I'm I'm at a
point where you know, we're

1633
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,760
going to have a really nasty
election cycle again here this

1634
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,720
year.
And I'm probably going to shut

1635
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:55,520
down social media when we get
around.

1636
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,840
I don't know, June, July,
something like that.

1637
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:03,000
I did it last time I did it in
the 2020 election because it got

1638
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:07,760
to where, like, people I really
like and really respect were

1639
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,480
pissing me off.
And we're really saying some

1640
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:14,360
angry, vicious things.
And I won't post angry, vicious

1641
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,480
things on on social media.
I just don't do it.

1642
01:28:17,480 --> 01:28:20,280
I won't do it.
And so I'm not going to get in

1643
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:22,880
arguments.
I'm not going to do any of those

1644
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,040
things.
But it does bother me and it it

1645
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:28,680
it's, you know, I become really
wimpy when it comes to people

1646
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:31,600
saying mean things sometimes.
Like, I'm talking like really

1647
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:33,720
personal, really mean, nasty
things.

1648
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,960
So I'm gonna shut it down at
some point here and I'll still

1649
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,760
have to go into the business
accounts and make sure you know

1650
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:41,320
that there's activity there and
stuff.

1651
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,760
But I think from a personal
standpoint, I'll I'll back off

1652
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:46,680
again.
Yeah I I think it's interesting.

1653
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:51,400
I I I can't tell if sort of the
next generation is being really

1654
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:55,280
healthy about it or or worse
because you see things like

1655
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:57,760
TikTok and there are new
platforms coming out all the

1656
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:01,520
time.
But my daughter for example is

1657
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:05,040
you know she's not a social
media person and she you know

1658
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,640
when she was like in late
grammar school and middle school

1659
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,480
and early high school you know
social media was like mondo

1660
01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:15,280
Mondo and you had to have a
presence and a profile and and

1661
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:19,200
they were all you know chatting
on instant message and and and

1662
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:23,160
it's it's really since she's
become an adult it's like not

1663
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:26,240
her thing you know which and and
her her friends and her

1664
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:29,560
coworkers and all that also.
So I find it fascinating how it

1665
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,320
it's, you know she in some ways
matured quicker than I did in

1666
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:37,240
that realm, which is like.
I I can't even imagine what it's

1667
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:41,000
like to be a teenage girl today
on Instagram, you know?

1668
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,240
I mean, she's. 31 but yes.
No, no, I'm saying.

1669
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,680
Teenage girls though today.
Like, yeah, going through, you

1670
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:51,360
know, I see some of them, like,
I feel sorry for them.

1671
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,120
Like I feel sorry for the things
they feel like they have to say

1672
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:57,960
or do, you know, to attract a
crowd or to get friends or

1673
01:29:57,960 --> 01:29:58,840
whatever.
It's.

1674
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:00,880
Sad and bullying.
I mean, there's so much bullying

1675
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,760
that goes on and you talk about
having your feelings hurt by

1676
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,720
your, you know, a grown man and
you see a comment that I agree,

1677
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:09,160
right?
Like some things just seem so

1678
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:10,360
hurtful.
Like why would you say that?

1679
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:14,240
Imagine if you're sort of in
more formative maturing years of

1680
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,480
your life and you see these you
know these things that people

1681
01:30:16,480 --> 01:30:18,040
can be hostile and.
Brutal.

1682
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,040
So tell me about this picture
behind us.

1683
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:27,680
Yeah.
So that picture, I do believe is

1684
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:33,680
just from September where I was
walking into the water during a

1685
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:37,520
I think it was classified as a
hurricane, or at least a

1686
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:41,000
tropical storm for 1/2 Ironman
triathlon.

1687
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:47,560
So I'm looking very surprised,
frightened, anxious.

1688
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:50,760
I look kind of happy, but that's
not really what I was feeling

1689
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:54,040
right then.
So yeah, like I did a a

1690
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:57,440
Thankfully the the swim was a
bit shortened, so maybe that's

1691
01:30:57,440 --> 01:31:00,360
why I was smiling right there.
But yeah, I'm about to about to

1692
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:04,560
dive into the Bay behind Jones
Beach Theatre.

1693
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:08,520
Great music venue by the way.
Not great sound, but a a great

1694
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,520
fun music venue near where, you
know, I have lived and grew up

1695
01:31:12,480 --> 01:31:14,800
my whole life, been living here
in London my whole life.

1696
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:19,520
And so the Bay behind that
theatre is where we swam and

1697
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:23,280
then psych biked and then ran in
pretty much torrential,

1698
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:25,160
torrential, freezing cold rain
in September.

1699
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:29,360
So that was fun.
So what have you run marathons

1700
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:34,120
or done marathons or, you know,
triathlons or whatever before?

1701
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,800
Or was this just a bucket list?
Kind of I want to do it.

1702
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:43,080
Yeah, I I probably didn't get
serious about doing really.

1703
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:45,720
I was never a runner like I was
like a team sports kid.

1704
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:50,080
You know like I played softball
and volleyball and and and did

1705
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:52,440
team sports like as a even it's
college.

1706
01:31:52,440 --> 01:31:56,160
I played intramural softball in
college, but well, I, you know,

1707
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:58,240
as I got older I figured yeah,
like I should probably figure

1708
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:00,840
out how to exercise, you know,
in a meaningful way.

1709
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:04,520
So I started running a little
bit, but you know, really kind

1710
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:10,600
of always didn't enjoy running
and took up triathlon

1711
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,600
specifically probably in not
until my mid to late 30s, so

1712
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:17,800
latter half of my 30s.
And I did this very small race

1713
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:22,600
in Montauk, I believe it was
like called Sprint to the

1714
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:25,840
lighthouse and a really short
race, like short swim, short

1715
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:28,040
bike and then like a 5K run at
the end.

1716
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:32,160
And every time I did one I was
like, that was really

1717
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,120
interesting and fun.
I think I could do, you know,

1718
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:35,880
never intention of building on
that.

1719
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,160
But I always thought like, oh, I
could do a longer one every time

1720
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:43,040
I did one.
And then I was dating my husband

1721
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:45,520
at the time.
I don't think we've been married

1722
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:47,840
yet.
We signed up for the Half Iron

1723
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:52,960
Man in New Orleans.
And was he finished?

1724
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:55,120
You know, probably about 10
minutes before I did.

1725
01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:57,800
And I crossed the finish line.
And the first thing I said to

1726
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:00,160
him was, I feel like I could do
a full Ironman.

1727
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,160
And he was like, me, too.
Let's sign up for one.

1728
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,640
Oh my God, that's amazing.
So we kind of had this.

1729
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:07,960
We kind of had this crazy.
Yeah.

1730
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:12,400
So I've done 3 full Ironman
triathlon and like, I think that

1731
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:16,440
was my fifth half.
So the half is like 70.3, full

1732
01:33:16,440 --> 01:33:20,960
is 140 .6 miles.
So yeah, so, so probably 10

1733
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:21,680
years.
I'm about 10.

1734
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:25,760
Years 40 miles all together, all
combined swim, biking and.

1735
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:32,560
Yeah, 2.4 swim, 112 mile bike
and a full 26.4 marathon, yeah.

1736
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:36,800
Yeah, I'm trying to bang my face
on my microphone like I couldn't

1737
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:39,280
do it, you know?
I love the idea of running.

1738
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:40,880
I just get a run.
Yeah.

1739
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:44,400
You could, you know.
I mean, it is the thing that's

1740
01:33:44,440 --> 01:33:48,880
cool about it is like a we're in
the same event that there are

1741
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:52,080
pros, right?
It's one of the few sports in

1742
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:55,440
the world where you're just that
there's guys and gals ahead of

1743
01:33:55,440 --> 01:33:59,200
me somewhere who were finishing
their in the the the pros and

1744
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:01,520
they're participating
essentially.

1745
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:05,160
Now my brother would joke and
say like, aren't you trying to

1746
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:06,600
race?
And I'm like, well, I wouldn't

1747
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:09,800
exactly call it a race.
Right, Because I'm just

1748
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:12,440
participating.
Yeah, trying to finish.

1749
01:34:12,440 --> 01:34:14,920
So.
So it's really fun and

1750
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:17,800
inspiring.
And you know, I every time I do

1751
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:21,840
one, I cry uncontrollably as I'm
crossing the finish line, which,

1752
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:24,760
you know, really makes for glue.
This is why this is my picture,

1753
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,840
you know, on social instead of
me, you know, crossing the

1754
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:29,760
finish line crying.
Yeah, 'cause it's, it's really

1755
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:31,760
overwhelming.
Like, you know, kind of I didn't

1756
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,880
feeling, you know, there's a
certain amount of cry there and

1757
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,400
you're just really tired, really
tired too.

1758
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:42,320
So any of any of you you crazy
people who do this, like, just

1759
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:46,160
blow me away because I I don't
have the gene that makes me

1760
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:48,680
wanna push myself to those kinds
of limits.

1761
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,760
Like I exercise every day.
I do pretty well compared to

1762
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:55,600
most of the people I know, but
there's no goddamn way I'm

1763
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:57,400
running, you know, whatever you
just said.

1764
01:34:57,400 --> 01:35:02,320
And And biking 112 miles and
swimming 2.4 Hell no, I'm not

1765
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,800
doing any of that stuff.
But but I'm really impressed by

1766
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:07,600
the people who do.
So Congrats.

1767
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:08,920
Did you already book the next
one?

1768
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:10,800
Thanks.
Yep.

1769
01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:13,640
I'm going to repeat this one is
at Jones Beach.

1770
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:16,280
It's the first time it's been at
Jones Beach, so it was

1771
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:19,320
inaugural.
So it's kind of nice to have one

1772
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:21,840
in your backyard where you know
you don't have to pack

1773
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:24,000
everything and go stay in a
hotel in another city.

1774
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:26,400
So you know that it was like one
of the first times.

1775
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,800
I literally just had everything
packed in my car the night

1776
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,240
before and drove there in the
morning and raced and was able

1777
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:33,400
to come home and it was on my
birthday.

1778
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:35,640
So that was kind of a fun way to
celebrate.

1779
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:36,840
Funny way to.
Celebrate.

1780
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,560
Yeah, he actually didn't do this
one with me.

1781
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:43,200
But yes, he has done.
We've kind of had a schedule

1782
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:47,280
where we've only done one or two
races together, but it actually

1783
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,160
works out better if you're not
racing together because you have

1784
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,120
one person who's can stay a
little calmer and you know more

1785
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,960
sane and be helpful one support
the.

1786
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:57,800
Other one, yeah, Yeah.
And your husband's not in the

1787
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:59,880
business, right?
In our.

1788
01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:02,360
Business he is not.
He's not a.

1789
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:07,520
Wise choice, A wise decision,
Yes, you did that once and.

1790
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:09,400
Did that one.
And you've gotten over it.

1791
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:11,760
And it didn't work out, so
that's OK too.

1792
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:15,200
Yeah, well, you're both
excellent people for it.

1793
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:18,920
So, or because of it, or through
it or whatever you want to call

1794
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:19,680
it.
But yeah, listen.

1795
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:21,720
What doesn't kill us right,
makes us.

1796
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:25,160
Yeah, no, exactly.
Well, I appreciate you taking

1797
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:27,680
all this time to do this.
Like we should have done this so

1798
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,440
many times before.
I know we did one for LDI just

1799
01:36:30,440 --> 01:36:32,600
to really promote the show and
talk about the show.

1800
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:37,760
You know, I I think you're a
remarkable person.

1801
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:41,080
And and I didn't say remarkable
woman, God forbid.

1802
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:43,720
But you're also one of those,
too.

1803
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:45,520
That's.
OK, I happen to be a woman.

1804
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:46,880
That's OK.
Yeah, well, good.

1805
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,200
I'm glad you admit it.
So many refuse to.

1806
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:51,680
Now you're a birther or whatever
they call them these days.

1807
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:55,800
But yeah, I mean, anytime you
have something that you want to

1808
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:58,160
talk about or promote or
whatever, just reach out to to

1809
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:01,200
me or to Sarah and and we'll
make sure to to get it going.

1810
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:04,920
And I'll be back at the show
recording some some podcast this

1811
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:07,320
year.
Apparently that idea has taken

1812
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:08,880
off and all kinds of people do
it now.

1813
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:11,800
But, but I'll be back there
doing it this year.

1814
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:15,040
I think I did like 8 podcasts
last time I did it.

1815
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:18,320
I I recorded like 8 of them and
which is a bit because then I

1816
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:19,840
want to push them all up right
away.

1817
01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:22,200
And I don't know if you've
noticed, but the internet's not

1818
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,920
so good there.
So yeah.

1819
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:26,760
I may or may not have noticed
that yet.

1820
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,160
Yeah, it's brutal.
I think I waited till I got back

1821
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:32,000
to the hotel because I just gave
up finally.

1822
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:34,360
But, but yeah, I look forward
to.

1823
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:36,800
It Yeah.
We'll be so pleased to have you

1824
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:37,680
back.
Can't wait?

1825
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:39,960
To see you again.
Yeah, no, Likewise.

1826
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:44,000
All right, my friend.
Well, thanks again for taking

1827
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:46,520
some time to do this.
And I'll send you all the links

1828
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:50,760
and stuff and tag the hell out
of you and out of Ldi and blah

1829
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:51,760
blah blah.
Wonderful.

1830
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:54,440
Thank you so much for your time
and for having me on.

1831
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:55,880
Cool.
All right, Marion.

1832
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:56,480
Thanks.