#221 - Lighting Designer / Director - Matt Guminski

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Well, hello and thank you for
joining me today on Geeses of

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Gear Episode #221, Two Days
Podcast is brought to you by

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Stratum Productions.
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company, please visit
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And also today I would like to
give an honorable mention to a

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sort of non sponsor sponsor.
They are a sponsor in that

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they're a friend of the show and
have provided a great service to

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the industry.
So of course I'm talking about

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my favorite coffee company,
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with AK and you can visit
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Geezers grind which is our own
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us by Coffee Cult.
And every purchase of Coffee

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Cult Geezers Grind provides a
benefit to the industry.

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In that Coffee Cult, have
graciously given up the proceeds

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on orders to donate that money
to Roby backstage.com I'm sorry,

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Roby backstage thereisno.com.
And that money then goes to help

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people in our industry who
either are sick, injured, or

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just in need.
And so it goes to a great

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'cause.
But it's also an excellent,

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excellent coffee.
And if you want to learn more

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about Coffee Cult, you can watch
a recent episode that we did

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with Jamie Mardis, the CEO and
founder of Coffee Cult.

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Pretty interesting stuff.
I learned a lot about coffee and

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the coffee I'm drinking and why
I like it.

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And so yeah, you get not only a
good feeling in that you've

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given to a charity that helps
our industry, but you also get a

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great cup of coffee.
So please visit coffeecult.com

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and search for geezers grind and
you will not be dissatisfied.

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Thank you so much and we are
back here.

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So I'm looking forward to
episode 221 today and I'll tell

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you a little bit more about that
in a couple of minutes.

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But first a bit of news from the
last week or so.

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First of all, a recent guest on
our show, Martin Thomas,

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Lighting designer, production
manager, super great guy, got

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married here in Florida in
Central Florida over the weekend

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and I was supposed to be at his
wedding with Missy and

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unfortunately I thought I had to
miss it.

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And then by the time I realized
I could probably shuffle my

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schedule and get myself there,
it was too late.

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They weren't able to change the
numbers and so I had to miss it.

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So I'm bummed.
I saw the pictures, they were

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great.
I I I've just heard really cool

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things about the wedding from
Howard Ungerleider, who was

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there, and Cosmo who was there.
So yeah, I missed it.

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I'm bummed.
And it happens.

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Also, last week, Chauvet opened
their new building here in South

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Florida and it's a great space.
It happens to be right next door

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to Roby's facility here in South
Florida.

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It's kind of becoming a bit of a
Gaza Strip down there with with

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Chauvet, Roby, Martin I think
still has a facility down here.

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Calculation of course has their
facility here in South Florida.

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So yeah, it's it's definitely,
you know moving like heaven or

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hell depending on which way you
want to look at it down here in

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South Florida.
But really nice building.

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It was a, it was a great little
party that they had.

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Albert Chauvet of course was
there very proud and they had a

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band.
They had some food and also lots

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and lots of designers.
And so I got to see a couple of

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recent people from the podcast
who were on the podcast, Emily,

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who was just on a few weeks ago
I think, or a couple of weeks

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ago.
She was there, Funny thing,

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first time I've ever met Emily
in person, so I've known her

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since before.
COVID, I think, with all the

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zoom calls we had and all kinds
of stuff, but never met in

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person, so it was really cool.
Cosmo, of course was there as

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well and yeah, some other people
too.

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So Corey, Corey was there.
So yeah, it was fun.

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It was cool.
Nice opening.

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What else has happened in the
last week or two Again, some of

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the the guests from our our
podcast again Cosmo.

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His name keeps popping up but he
won Lighting Designer of the

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Year at the Live Production
Summit which happened a couple

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weeks ago I think in Palm
Springs.

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And so congratulations to Cosmo,
Very deserving lighting

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designer, very busy lighting
designer.

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If his axe could stay out there.
This is the problem.

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When you have older acts I guess
they start, they stop, they

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start, they stop.
And so congratulations to Cosmo

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again.
Nobody deserves it more.

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The guy works his ass off and
and just a super guy and great

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designer.
Very talented and very close

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relation to Cosmo, one of his
employers Gateway Productions

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one video company of the year.
So that was another interesting

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one.
And again past guest of the show

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lots of other friends won awards
there.

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I think upstaging might have got
trucking company.

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I don't have them in front of
me.

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Sorry.
And Speaking of awards, another

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friend of the show and recent
recent podcast recording, Rob

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Koenig from Metallica, of course
won the Nook Schoenfeld Lighting

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Designer of the Year Parnelli
Award at the NAMM show this past

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weekend.
So congratulations to Rob again,

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deserves it heavily.
It was a toughly contested

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category this year, some really
great designers in there.

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And so for Rob to pull that out
was huge.

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Congratulations.
And Speaking of the NAMM show,

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yeah, a lot of people attended
of course from our industry.

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I know I saw a lot of booths
there, companies from our

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industry.
I think Martin had a booth

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elation did Chauvet did, not
sure who else, but of course

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ACT.
I think it was the first time

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they showed up with another, I
think.

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I don't think we've announced
them yet, but they're coming.

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PK Sound is coming on as a
sponsor.

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So PK Sound for the first time
showing at a Nam show with ACT.

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They were together at LDI, but
that's the lighting show more

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than a sound show, of course.
Sorry to the folks from LDI that

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I said that.
But so anyways, yeah, I mean, I

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heard it was a pretty good show.
It was obviously well attended.

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Nam always is, You know, it's a
weird show always because you

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have musicians walking around
looking at guitars and drums and

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everything.
There's not.

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It's a musician show and a music
store show more than it is a

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lighting show or even a
professional sound show.

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Although sound is much more
closely tied to Nam than

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lighting is.
Even though as a lighting vendor

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I've been going to Nam since the
90s.

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I I remember doing Nam show
booths, you know, in the early,

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early 90s with Trackman and
Martin.

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And so you can't really say it's
not a lighting show, but it's

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really not a lighting show.
Like if you have 100,000

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attendees at Nam, there's
probably 2000 people that are

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interested or 5000 people that
are interested in lighting and

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the rest are.
And I'm sure I'm getting those

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numbers wrong so I should just
shut up.

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And then last on shows.
ISE is this week in Barcelona.

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That has been a massively
growing show over the last few

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years especially.
It's always been a good show,

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but over the last, I think since
just before COVID, maybe

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20/17/18 is when it really
started booming and now it's

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just a massive show.
I think it's a lot bigger than

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Plaza, if I'm guessing
correctly.

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Again, I'm probably stepping in
poop now and saying the wrong

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thing, but it's a great show.
It's a big show.

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I wish I was there, but
unfortunately I have to work and

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can't run around to trade shows
my whole life.

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So on to today's guest we have
coming up Matt Kaminski.

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So Matt is a good friend, great
guy, lots to talk about with

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Matt.
Matt is a Boston, MA native and

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resident of Astoria, NY.
He is a lighting and production

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designer, lighting director,
programmer, and owner of MG

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Lighting Design.
Matt holds ABFA in Lighting

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Design from Boston University.
Throughout Matt's career, he has

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worked for various styles and
sizes of shows, including

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theater, dance, industrial,
corporate and concert design and

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direction.
So that's a lot and I'm looking

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forward to talking with them.
So let's bring on Matt Mattie,

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GLD.
How are you, my friend?

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And it's funny that I should
call you that, because everyone

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knows that that's your Instagram
handle is Mattie GLD.

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And you know, for the longest
time I thought, why the hell

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does he call himself Maddie
Gold?

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Like what is that?
You know you're not the first

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person.
Why does he call himself Maddie

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Gold?
And then finally, one day I

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went, duh, you know, but.
Well, that goes.

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That goes way back to college.
I was like getting ready to

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graduate from college and I was
like I need AI, need a outside

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of you know my college e-mail
address.

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And I was like what'll sound
cool And it this is way before

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you know you did your first name
dot last name and it's and it

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started on Hotmail like that's
how long ago.

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Oh.
My goodness, so.

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Well yeah, it just kind of just
kind of stuck.

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I hate to tell you about my so
long ago goes before e-mail.

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There was no e-mail when when my
long ago happened.

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So you're still a young and, but
no the whole.

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Well, thank you.
Yeah, the whole Instagram handle

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thing is funny because our
producer Sarah, of course,

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tagged the wrong Matt Gaminsky,
and I think that's.

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Well, no.
It wasn't even a it wasn't even

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a Mac Gaminsky.
It was just a Gaminsky.

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So are you and him dating now or
something?

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Like, now that you've connected
on Instagram, what's going on?

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I don't know.
No, it was actually funny

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because today so we so when the
pandemic started, we were

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actually Corey Easterbrook,
Greek Rob Koenig, a bunch of

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people.
We formed this kind of Emily

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Bourne's.
We formed kind of a support

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group via iMessage and you know,
one of we still have it, we

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still run it to this day.
We bounce ideas off each other.

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It's really.
How do I how do I get in there?

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I just want to spam LDS all day,
so I just want to come in and

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go.
Anybody need any, you know, hog

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fours or whatever?
Yeah.

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No, I mean, well, I'm sure they
know how to get in touch with,

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you know where it's there.
But no, no, no.

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So today I'm sitting there and I
wake up this morning and I get a

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a text from Rob Gibson and in
the group chat and he was like,

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so I guess I was following the
wrong you on Instagram.

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And I was like, what are you
talking about?

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He's like, who's this Gaminski
K?

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Whatever he he loves to have his
shirts off in his it's.

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Oh, no.
And I was.

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Like that is definitely not me.
That's hilarious.

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We're.
All you're all laughing.

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About Oh, so he didn't he didn't
come after you for like spam in

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his inbox or anything?
On.

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Yeah.
Oh, no, No, no, no, no, no, no.

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But he's like, I'm going to
follow this guy because I'm

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interested now.
I was like, you can unfollow.

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It's like, no, no, no.
This is going to be a good

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story.
You want to hear something

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funny?
So when I first started

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Gearsource, this is how long ago
that was.

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I had AI think it was an 800
number or it might have just

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been my regular phone number.
I don't remember.

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But whatever it was, I think it
was 800 whatever.

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Or it might have been 866,
whatever.

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Anyways, whatever it was, if you
dialed like the 800 number

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instead of the 866 number or
whatever, it went to a porn.

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And you'll never guess who found
it and told me was Marcia Stern.

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Marcia calls me and she goes,
Marcel, did you know that if you

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00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:11,960
call 800 instead of 866, you get
like this, this hotline, this

225
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,880
sex hotline thing, and I'm like,
get the hell out of here.

226
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,240
So of course I hung up on her
and went and tried it and it's

227
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,520
like.
You're so hot.

228
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:22,600
And all this.
Stuff, right?

229
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,680
It's like, whoa.
And you're sitting on there

230
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:28,560
being like, I'm racking up all
the minutes on here.

231
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,120
My phone bills can.
Be Yeah, no kidding, No kidding.

232
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,760
But yeah, I mean, it's funny.
That Marsha found it.

233
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,600
Yeah, Marsha found it.
There was another one like that.

234
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,240
I think it's WestJet in Canada,
which is sort of like the

235
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,480
JetBlue in Canada, you know, the
discount airline or whatever.

236
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,880
We've all flown on it.
And I think again, I think it's

237
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:54,160
an 866 number and if you call
800 instead of 866, you get like

238
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,560
a sex line or something.
I think it's the exact.

239
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,640
Same problem I had, those still
exist.

240
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,800
Well, this was a few years ago
when I heard about that one and

241
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,520
I went and tried it and it was
real.

242
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,560
But yeah, so pretty wild.
Anyway, so you were in LA, You

243
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:12,720
went to.
I'm kind of jealous you went to

244
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,920
the Parnellis, right?
Yeah, I went to Nam and the

245
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,840
Parnellis.
It was it was a lot of fun.

246
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,680
It was beautiful.
It was so nice to see all the,

247
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,680
you know, our industry together
celebrating each other.

248
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:31,280
Oh, yeah, You know, Nicole from
Felix, she brought in a table of

249
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:38,280
all women and LGBTQ people.
You know Roby had a table that

250
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,160
they brought in a bunch of
people.

251
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,960
You know Gateway Studio, I mean
it, it just went, it went on.

252
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:50,080
It was packed like you could you
couldn't walk 2 feet and and

253
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,920
without bumping into somebody,
you know.

254
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,920
And it was, it was just it was
really great.

255
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,720
I think I remember hearing it
sold out like a couple months in

256
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,240
advance because I had a few
companies reach out to me and

257
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,440
say, hey, do you need a, do you
need a seat?

258
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,600
Because, you know, it's sold
out.

259
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,760
And I've got admit, I got to
admit.

260
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,920
I've.
Never been to the Barnelli's

261
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,320
because every time it when it
was at LDI, every single year

262
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,480
there was always something like
I either had a client dinner

263
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,040
that I had to be at or a you
know something or it was the

264
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,360
same night as upstaging party or
something was always wrong with

265
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,000
why I couldn't go to the
Parnelli's.

266
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,280
Plus I hate wearing a suit and I
didn't really want to dress in a

267
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,400
suit.
So you know, and you don't want

268
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,760
to go there in jeans and AT
shirt and look like a schmuck, I

269
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,760
guess, but.
No, but I mean, at the same time

270
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,080
though, it's it, it's definitely
an experience you you have to go

271
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,480
to, especially if there's a
lifetime award winner that you

272
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,640
might, you know, or or whatnot.
No, I I feel better every year

273
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,720
for missing it because I like
all the people who get all the

274
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,080
awards, right?
So yeah.

275
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,640
Yeah, I mean, it was amazing
watching Rob get his Metallica

276
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,080
award.
I'm so proud of him.

277
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,440
He worked so, so hard on that
show, of course.

278
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,440
And and it was also, you know, I
the other, there were a few

279
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:15,000
other events that are great with
this whole Nam association that

280
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,720
I really like.
And you know the one I mean, my

281
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:24,160
one issue with LDI is it's so
expensive to go to these panels

282
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:28,080
and take these classes, whereas
with Nam it's it's fostering the

283
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,000
education, right.
So kids can pay.

284
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,480
I think it's like $90.00 and
they get access to all the

285
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,040
classes throughout Nam for the
week, which is amazing and

286
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,280
there's some amazing panels we
had.

287
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,160
One that I went to is Richard
Kadena.

288
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,280
He did electrify the audience
and not your performers and it

289
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,160
was talking about, you know,
ground loops and and so how he's

290
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,200
so good.
You see what?

291
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,000
He's doing now with this whole
paywall thing, like he's got all

292
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,680
of his.
He's got a lot of training and

293
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,440
stuff behind the behind one of
the paywall services, which is

294
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,040
so cool.
I talked to him about it last

295
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,359
week.
Listen, man, if he's putting it

296
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,040
out there, he should make money
on it because he the end and

297
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,960
just the way that he educates
people.

298
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,560
It's so down to earth.
It's so much fun.

299
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,480
You know, he's like, I'm going
to show you video videos of

300
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,440
people electrocuting themselves.
Don't worry, they all survived

301
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,840
and you're like, no way.
And he would show it.

302
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,880
And you know, you see this guy
freeze and shake and smoke comes

303
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,920
out of his head and he's like,
but don't worry, he gets up.

304
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,320
Yeah, I mean, he was on my
podcast telling me those

305
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,160
stories.
And I remembered because I was a

306
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,760
singer, believe it or not.
And I remembered so many times

307
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,520
going like this up to the mic
and going, you know and you

308
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,320
know.
Well, I mean the main thing that

309
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,560
I found really interesting is,
you know when when you're on

310
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,720
tour, you hear backline people
say, oh, you know that sixty

311
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,640
cycle hum, I'm just going to,
I'm just going to throw a ground

312
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,120
lift on it.
And that's that's what causes.

313
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,400
Of course.
Yeah.

314
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,760
Well, we never even through.
Back in my day, you didn't have,

315
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,360
like, this fancy ground lifts.
You just bent the plug off, you

316
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,520
know?
OK, let's make it a two Pronger,

317
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,400
you know?
He would kill you, of course.

318
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,760
He would, Of course he would.
You know how many times I've

319
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,800
done that in my life, though?
Like 1000.

320
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,080
You know, I mean, it's.
I mean.

321
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,680
We all have.
It's just what you did when you

322
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,280
didn't have the stuff, you know?
It was always funny, too,

323
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,640
because I was always that guy in
the band where the band elected

324
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,920
me the one to hook up to the 220
supply in the wall or whatever.

325
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,920
And so, you know, you'd yell
over to the bartender.

326
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,520
Hey, is this shut off?
Yep, Yep.

327
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,760
It's off, you know.
Definitely.

328
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:48,640
Was it?
Yeah.

329
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,440
Oh, yeah.
No.

330
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,920
Was that on purpose?
No, no, I'm sorry.

331
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,040
I'm really sorry.
Yeah, me too.

332
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,400
But so did you do a?
Course singer?

333
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,360
That's kind of amazing.
You know, it's a funny story, so

334
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,920
I'll tell it quickly because
it's a funny story and I don't

335
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,600
think I've ever told this story
on the podcast, but I was in 6th

336
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,480
grade and I went to church one
week.

337
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,880
I was Catholic.
I went to church with my family

338
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,600
and there was a little ad up
saying band looking for a singer

339
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,520
at the church and you know, rock
band play all the latest

340
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,040
rock'n'roll stuff looking for a
singer audition to to audition

341
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,640
call so and so or whatever,
right.

342
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,640
And so I called and the manager
who answered the phone was a

343
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,360
Catholic priest and he was the
priest from our church.

344
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,680
And he said, yeah, you.
The band rehearses in the

345
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,680
basement of the church, but they
play at regular gigs.

346
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,360
They're a rock band.
And so he set.

347
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:51,240
Me up for an audition?
Not like a Catholic, well.

348
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,840
So hang on a SEC.
So, so I went and auditioned and

349
00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:00,280
I got the gig and so to pay for
the rehearsal space, basically

350
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,280
the band every I can't remember
if it was one Saturday a month

351
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,160
or every second Saturday or
whatever.

352
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,880
We played this thing called the
rock mass and it was like, I

353
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,800
don't know, 8:00 at night or
something on Saturday nights.

354
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,880
And it was.
Packed with like teenagers,

355
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:19,680
right?
Just like literally.

356
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,040
Kids that never went to church
were all of a sudden packing

357
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,320
this church standing room only.
And so this.

358
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:32,160
This priest's assistant was a
German lady and she was

359
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,120
translating these German
Christian rock songs.

360
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:41,120
This was prior to Striper.
Or what was the other big one?

361
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:46,520
Petra, it was prior to all these
big Christian rock bands and so

362
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,680
we were playing these really
heavy German rock songs

363
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,560
translated to English.
And you know, we do this once a

364
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,160
month or whatever, and that paid
for our rehearsal space.

365
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,160
And from there we'd go out and
do gigs.

366
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,840
We had a song on the radio at
one point and so, so yeah, but I

367
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,240
I started out as the singer.
And then one day at practice,

368
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,920
the priest fires our bass player
and hands me a bass guitar and

369
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,920
says here, learn to play.
You got four weeks till our next

370
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,560
gig or whatever, right?
So I had to learn like 40 songs

371
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,240
on a instrument that I'd never
played before.

372
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:25,600
I played a tiny bit of guitar,
like just goofing around at home

373
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,200
or whatever.
But so yeah, I had, I went and

374
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,360
took bass lessons and and
learned, you know, Dong Dong,

375
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:38,120
Dong, Dong, Dong, Dong, like the
most basic bass stuff I could.

376
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,880
And then over time, I really got
into playing the bass and I got

377
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,320
kind of good at it and I decided
I wanted to be a bass player.

378
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,960
I didn't want to be a singer.
I was a bass player singer for a

379
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,600
long time.
And then I started taking gigs

380
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,040
as just a bass player and some
background vocals.

381
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,160
But that was about it.
And then I just decided that,

382
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,400
you know, I was on the road
making $200 a week, but my bar

383
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,000
tab was 250 and so I needed a
job.

384
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,560
So I went and got a job in a
music store and that led to

385
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,680
lighting and onward.
So.

386
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,760
That's my life story.
Well, I I knew we were kindred

387
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,560
spirits.
I I too, play bass.

388
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,240
I just haven't had a chance to
play in a very long time because

389
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,320
I've been on the road.
But that's actually how.

390
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,760
Yeah.
Yeah, that's kind of it.

391
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,040
Was one of those things in high
school where I was like, man,

392
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,360
I'd want to, you know, in in
middle school we had to do like

393
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,160
the the band, right?
And I was that obnoxious kid

394
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,920
that's like, I want to play the
snare drum.

395
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,640
So literally I would take a
snare drum, bring it home and do

396
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,360
like just it.
Just a snare drum, not a full

397
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,640
kit, a snare drum.
And my parents were like, that's

398
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,920
it.
I would kill you.

399
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,080
And think like a think like a
6th, 7th, 8th grader, like

400
00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:00,480
hopped up on sugar being like,
so when I went to high school, I

401
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,640
mean also like when it comes to
music, I always just kind of

402
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,040
heard the baseline.
Like it always kind of had a

403
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:12,040
more forward sound to me in the
in the, in the songs, so.

404
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,000
So one day I left high school,
you know, freshman year of high

405
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,520
school, I went to Guitar Center
and I got APB, you know, a

406
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,680
crappy hundred $150.00 PB Bass.
And I was like when I just

407
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,200
started fuzzing around with it
and just kind of became

408
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,240
something I like to do.
And I think I could never read

409
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,560
sheet music, but I always, I
could always hear it and

410
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,440
replicate it.
So, so being able to do that,

411
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,120
help me with my musicality going
forward in the lighting career,

412
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,920
starting in theater where I
started but ultimately carrying

413
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,920
over to concert, touring and.
Other, I mean, you know, I think

414
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,520
bass and drums.
Like I've known a lot of LDS who

415
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,720
who were either part time for
fun drummers or were drummers

416
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,600
before they became LDS or
whatever.

417
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:06,960
And I think, you know, obviously
being part of the rhythm section

418
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,320
really, you know, obviously
gives you some some better

419
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,960
timing and stuff.
And I think it it fits, you

420
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,280
know, like you like that sort of
changing thing and and like you

421
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,440
said sort of forward.
So yeah, I mean, but I I fell

422
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,160
into it.
I mean he literally fired the

423
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,560
guy and handed me a bass guitar
and said learn to play it.

424
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,600
And you know, later on in life
like today I probably own 2 bass

425
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,120
guitars, maybe 3 bass guitars.
I can't remember and about 10

426
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:42,760
guitars and so if I ever pick up
something to just goof around,

427
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,720
it's usually an electric guitar,
sometimes an acoustic guitar.

428
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,000
Well, it's it's always hard like
to pick up like I have my bass,

429
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:52,840
I have a trainer bass cab in my
office, which is probably the

430
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,680
worst place.
It's two eighteens.

431
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480
But I.
Have a trainer 218 bass cabinet.

432
00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,800
Oh dear.
Boom.

433
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,480
Boom.
Oh my God.

434
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,880
And I have AI have a Schecter 5
string and that that low B, Oh

435
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,720
my God, when you hit that, it
rattles.

436
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,040
Yeah, my neighbors.
Fall off the wall behind.

437
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:12,720
You.
Yeah.

438
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,440
But I mean, it's like you hit it
on the head.

439
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,080
It's kind of like I feel like to
be a good concert.

440
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,040
Lighting this or just lighting
designer that's dealing with

441
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,640
music, to have a rhythm section
background is going to just

442
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,560
serve you.
It's going to serve you so much.

443
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,040
I think that's why I'm so good
at.

444
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,560
I feel like I'm very good at
busking shows because I know I

445
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,360
can follow the drummer and I
know where the song is going to

446
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,600
go, you know?
I just it's just a feeling that

447
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,440
I have.
So, you know, I know this is a

448
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,800
really stupid question, but I'm
going to ask it anyway.

449
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,440
So I always I always see these
busking competitions and stuff

450
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,040
at LDI.
But what is busking a show?

451
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,800
Because I mean, I know what a
busker is, a street performer or

452
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,640
whatever.
So is busking basically just

453
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,360
walking up and doing lights?
Well I mean it's it's you don't

454
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,040
have anything programmed.
I mean you have your punt page

455
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,880
programs.
I mean Emily, in your podcast

456
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,920
with her she talks about when
she does you know shows she's

457
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,200
playing the lights like and
that's exactly what you're

458
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,000
doing.
You're you're, you're playing

459
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,360
the lights like a member of the
band, except you don't have

460
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,920
anything programmed.
You're just when you push a

461
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,760
button, it's going to stroke.
When you move that fader up,

462
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,400
it's going to do something.
So, yeah, I mean it's that's

463
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,320
kind of just.
It's kind of like jamming.

464
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,640
Yeah, I mean, that's basically
what it is.

465
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,000
It's just a freestyle form.
And you know, honestly, like

466
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,280
when I first started with the
Cult, that was all it was.

467
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,600
It was you don't have a lighting
rig.

468
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,280
You can bring a console if you
want, but you're not going to

469
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,400
have time to program anything.
We're not going to production

470
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,680
rehearsals.
We're just hitting the road.

471
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,120
We're going.
And.

472
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,360
I just said yeah, And then
depending on where the venue is,

473
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,200
if they don't have anything, we
would advance of a light plot,

474
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,600
you know, something basic.
But yeah, it would literally be

475
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,200
rolling up in the entire day.
On my first tour with the cult,

476
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,080
I was just everyday building up
and building up more my punt

477
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,000
file.
So by the end of it, I just had

478
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,360
everything accessible to me and
you know, knowing the music at

479
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,480
that point, I mean, again, being
a musician, I can pick up music

480
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,680
really quickly.
So if I hear a song two or three

481
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,800
times, I know the structure, I
know where fills are going, I

482
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,880
know the the direction it's
going, and then I find it's kind

483
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,560
of, it becomes a little more
cohesive.

484
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,200
So I know that you know this
song is going to be blue and

485
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,520
gold with some white accent
hits, and I'll start to be able

486
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,560
to replicate that.
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

487
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,720
So going backwards here a little
bit back to Nam, did did you do

488
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,800
training at Nam?
Because I know you do.

489
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,400
You do a bunch of hog training,
right?

490
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,480
Yeah, no, at Nam they didn't
have.

491
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000
I don't think they had any any
console training.

492
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,760
They might have had ACT, might
have had some MA.

493
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,360
But honestly this year I was
really kind of disappointed at

494
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:20,920
Nam, not at Nam, but it's just
there weren't a lot of vendors

495
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,840
that we had in previous years.
And I get it, ISC is going on.

496
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:32,240
You know, we just had LDI.
But like the the idea of Nam as

497
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,880
a kind of crossroads it, it kind
of sets it up that it would be a

498
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,400
perfect show for our industry.
Because you have your artists

499
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,880
doing endorsement deals, your
tour managers are there, your

500
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,560
production managers are there.
So you know, instead of sending

501
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,160
them a a YouTube clip or like a
website to go check out about a

502
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,520
new product you might want to
use on a tour, want to take them

503
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,680
over to the booth?
Show them the fixture.

504
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,000
You have a good thought.
It's a nice thought, but in

505
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,960
reality, like, you know, it's
just not the core audience.

506
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,200
And so I it's funny 'cause I
talked about this on the intro

507
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,480
Nam.
I've been literally doing booths

508
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,680
at the Nam show since 1992 and
that was when I was early with

509
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,720
Martin's distributor Trackman.
And you know, I remember we used

510
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,600
to be in the exit of the
Convention Center that faced

511
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,320
towards the right, towards the
Hilton Lounge.

512
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,480
And this was back in the day
when the Hilton Lounge was like

513
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,160
manic.
You know, it was just complete

514
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,480
mayhem in there as soon as the
show ended.

515
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,760
And but so, you know, we were
right by the exit.

516
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,960
And I remember one day Eddie Van
Halen walking in and coming to

517
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,480
our booth and going, whoa, this
stuff's pretty cool.

518
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,560
And I mean, this is like 1993 or
something, right?

519
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:52,800
And he's like this stuff's
pretty cool.

520
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,560
What what's going on here?
And you know, I'm like, you

521
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,880
know, it's Van Halen and he's
asking me questions about

522
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,000
lights.
What do I do?

523
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,280
And had like a had a 15 minute
conversation with Eddie Van

524
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,800
Halen about moving lights,
right.

525
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,480
It was so cool.
But what we always counted on

526
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,920
was like the music store from
the Midwest somewhere who just

527
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,800
tripped over your booth and
went, oh, I've been meaning to

528
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,080
get into lighting, you know, But
like the way I described it on

529
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,320
the on the intro, I don't know
what the, what the attendance

530
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,480
was this year, but I mean I
think it's usually around

531
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,080
100,000 people at NAMM or
whatever over the four days. 100

532
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,400
to 200 to 200,000, I mean, but
The thing is they come from all

533
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,760
over the world like you get
people from Africa there from

534
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,840
you know Eastern Europe and it
it's a it's, you know you get

535
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,480
House of worship people you have
your DJ people.

536
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,440
The I think 2019 or 2020 right
before we got locked down there,

537
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,360
we had a NAMM show and it was
because it's in January.

538
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,880
And I want to say that was I
think the biggest showing like

539
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,600
we had.
You know Chevey was the Chevey

540
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,600
was kind of always there.
They weren't there this year,

541
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,400
but Elation had a pretty big
booth American DJ, you know

542
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:15,560
SGMGLP.
They were all there and Four

543
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,000
Wall was actually there doing
the their used lighting thing

544
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,520
and they had a good amount of
sales from from what I was told

545
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,880
they actually gave like a 10%
you know discount so they could

546
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,840
track their sales and see if it
was worth it.

547
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,760
And you know they said in in a
week you know DJ is coming up

548
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,720
wanting to buy like you know LED
cars or you know they ended up

549
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,160
doing really, really well and
then the pandemic hit and then

550
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,520
that just kind of I think the
any forward momentum that we got

551
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,520
coming up that way kind of just.
Yeah, but here's here's the

552
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,320
problem.
So you know, let's imagine, you

553
00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:00,280
know, I don't know what some
really expensive shopping would

554
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,160
be in New York, but like the
equivalent of what is it Madison

555
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,080
Ave. or something like that, you
know?

556
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,080
5th Ave.
Or?

557
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,160
5th Ave.
Yeah, something like that.

558
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,640
So imagine putting a store there
on 5th Ave. where you know that

559
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,200
only about 3% or 2% of the
traffic walking by is even

560
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,640
remotely interested in your
product because you're you're a

561
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,640
bit of an A strange product for
that industry or that market or

562
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,440
whatever, right.
That's what Nam is to lighting

563
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920
companies.
You know it, it's it's not their

564
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,600
core audience.
About 95% of the people coming

565
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,200
to that show have no interest
whatsoever in lighting.

566
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,240
So you're you're spending big
money, the same money that a

567
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,280
guitar company or an amplifier
company or a drum company would

568
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,400
be spending for the 95%
audience, you're spending for

569
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,720
the 5% audience.
And so it's not always the

570
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,800
greatest value.
Like you're just looking for

571
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,520
that accidental deal that trips
over you or whatever.

572
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,400
But you know, I talked to
several manufacturers, they said

573
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,040
it was busy, but it was like me,
you know, it it wasn't

574
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,760
incredible from a business
standpoint or anything.

575
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,040
I just see like there's just
some energy to Nam that like I'd

576
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,360
like LDI.
Don't get me wrong.

577
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,680
One of the things I like about
LDI is just seeing all my

578
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:23,360
friends who I I haven't seen in
a year and unfortunately I

579
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,840
didn't get a chance to go to a
lot of LD is in recent years or

580
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,280
or in past years because the
time it's always right in the

581
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,720
middle of tour.
And you know it's weird because

582
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,600
everyone goes I, you know, the
people, the audience is actually

583
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,800
coming to Nam.
They're just coming for the

584
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,160
Parnellis.
Like if you knew the industry

585
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,960
that the the amount of people in
our industry that were in that

586
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,480
room, like OK, like why not set
it up, make the investment and

587
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,880
really push to make it
worthwhile to have you know, Rob

588
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,200
Koenig with like the Metallica
production team was there.

589
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,880
People would love to sell
products to those guys.

590
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:14,120
You know, you had young aspiring
talent there that would love to

591
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,600
get their hands on some of this
stuff.

592
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,560
And really the only
representation was SGM had a

593
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,560
booth, GLP had a booth, ADJ had
a booth, and everything else was

594
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,520
like Chinese knockoff.
Well, which was?

595
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,800
Let me put it to you this way,
Matt.

596
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:34,360
So a booth the size of an act or
a robe at at LDI.

597
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,560
Let's talk about LDI, actually.
There too, Yeah.

598
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:38,679
Yeah.
So let let's talk about LDI.

599
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:42,120
A booth the size of ROBE or ACT,
they're spending almost

600
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:48,280
$1,000,000 on that booth.
And so that's not something that

601
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,480
you can do lots and lots of
times.

602
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,239
Generally you're not going to
make back anywhere near your

603
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,080
investment on orders that you
get at that show.

604
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,520
So you're really investing in
the year of business, not not

605
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,960
just in that show of business.
And you know, Nam, probably for

606
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,000
me, the first few years we did
it, it worked out pretty well

607
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,200
because we were one of very few
lighting companies there.

608
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,000
And like I said, the old music
store from the Midwest somewhere

609
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,600
was tripping over us and going,
yeah, I want some of that stuff

610
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,800
in my store.
I want to sell some club lights

611
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,880
or whatever, right.
And this was early in the

612
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,040
industry and now though, you
know, everyone has access to

613
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,240
these products, those companies
are not really there to meet

614
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,160
with lighting companies.
They're there to meet with their

615
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,200
top guitar vendors or whatever
vendor.

616
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,000
So I don't know, like I wish it
would work.

617
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,880
I wish it would work because it
should, you know and but it's

618
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,480
just such a big investment and
it's right after LDI and I don't

619
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,200
know if it'll ever work, but I
wish it would because I love the

620
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,240
Nam show.
I went to a whole bunch of Nam

621
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:00,440
shows as a music vendor before I
ever did it as a lighting

622
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,440
company and then I did it for 10
years as a lighting company too.

623
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,200
So yeah.
It's just I like the energy.

624
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,120
I like seeing the people that I
wouldn't normally see walking by

625
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,360
a giant drums circle.
That's pretty cool.

626
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,880
That's very cool.
It's a very.

627
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,560
I like the sense of community
and the wayback totally hear

628
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,080
what?
You're saying, Yeah, I'll go

629
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,880
back to the Wayback Machine.
So when I first started going as

630
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,560
a music company I was, I mean
this is probably this is well

631
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,960
before you were born I think.
So this was like the the early

632
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,120
to mid 80s was the first time I
went to the Nam show.

633
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,880
Probably 8382 was my first Nam
show and I.

634
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,200
Was one.
I was one.

635
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,400
There you go.
So I remembered there would be

636
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,600
times when I'd be standing at
the Bank of payphones talking to

637
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,280
my girlfriend and I'd be like,
whoa, there's, you know, Joe

638
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,160
Satriani, whoa, there's Eddie
Van Halen, whoa, there's so and

639
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,640
so whoever, right?
And it was just all mini skirts

640
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,040
and rock stars.
It was such a fun show.

641
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,560
And then party at the Hill at at
the Hilton Lounge across the

642
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,360
street afterwards.
And and then, you know, you'd go

643
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:15,440
out to local clubs and see, you
know, just the craziest huge

644
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,800
bands playing at these clubs.
Or they'd have these throw

645
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,840
togethers where it's, you know,
Van Halen and and Seymour Duncan

646
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:28,800
and Leslie W from Mountain and
like just all these people that

647
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,400
are jamming, you know, and
you're just like wow, this is so

648
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,280
cool to experience this.
Yeah, it was fun.

649
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,960
I mean, it is cool.
It is cool because I did get to

650
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,760
see some people that I tour
with.

651
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,080
Yeah, you know, audio, the audio
guys, some musicians.

652
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,160
So it was, you know?
It it's a cool.

653
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,360
Show I got my yeah I got I got
my 2 days of awesome and yeah

654
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,080
and and Parnelli love.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.

655
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,920
That's awesome.
Hopefully you'll be on the on

656
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,520
the Parnelli list soon, so keep
working hard, young feller.

657
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaking of thanks Dad.
Speaking of being young, you're

658
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,680
part of a younger generation
who, you know, I always talk

659
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:13,280
about on on this podcast how
people got into the business and

660
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,560
and the fact that it's usually
just a real weird lucky thing

661
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,480
where you're sitting at a pub
and some guy next to you, you

662
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,320
know, works for some big band or
something and says hey, you want

663
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,280
a job, I need a guy to do this
or whatever, right?

664
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:28,960
And next thing you know, you're
a touring guy and you've made a

665
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,840
40 year career out of it, but
you're part of a younger

666
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,720
generation who who was actually
able to study lighting design

667
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,040
and I think you did that at
Boston University, right?

668
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,720
Yeah, yeah.
I went there for theater.

669
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,040
Yeah, back in I was there 1999
to 2003.

670
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,800
It was great.
It was it.

671
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,080
It, you know, it's this, this
industry.

672
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,080
Like I the best way to describe
it is this industry found me

673
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:01,080
because I didn't get into this
until high school where I was

674
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,240
looking for something.
I was, you know, I went to a new

675
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:05,080
high school.
I wanted to do something

676
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,160
different, so I joined the
football team.

677
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,280
Right.
So we played and then after

678
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,600
football was done, I was like,
what am I going to do with

679
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,880
myself?
Like, I'm just bored.

680
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:20,320
So I I walked by one day, saw a
poster for Dracula that my

681
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,080
school was doing.
And I went to go see it.

682
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,760
And I was like, wow, this is
amazing because it was a school

683
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,880
where they actually invested in
the arts still and joined the

684
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,360
stage crew and just started
building sets, painting sets.

685
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,840
And then I had the option in my
junior and senior year to start

686
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,680
taking, you know, more classes
basically.

687
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,720
So I took, you know, costume
design, masks and make up,

688
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,120
scenic design, lighting design,
and it just kind of stuck, you

689
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,640
know, I just really was like
getting up an inkling for

690
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,760
lighting.
I just, it was, I was passionate

691
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,640
about it and we were getting
ready to do a festival where

692
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,840
we're having a bunch of schools
come and compete and the

693
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,120
lighting designer.
For the school at the time, got

694
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,920
sick and my teacher was like,
well, you're up.

695
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,200
So basically.
I got bumped into that, got put

696
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,840
in a high pressure situation,
knocked it out of the park and

697
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,160
then at that point I was like,
this is really what I want to

698
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,440
do.
So at that point I was applying

699
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,360
to colleges, didn't really know
what I wanted to do in college.

700
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,160
And then at that point, I was
like, I want to go for lighting

701
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,800
design.
So applied to BUBC Holy Cross

702
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,320
mostly like northeast schools
got into BU and that was the

703
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,960
best thing that could have
happened to me.

704
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:47,040
I got in at a school that had a
major regional theater where we

705
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,240
were getting Broadway lighting
designers coming in and

706
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,280
designing shows.
I got to assist them.

707
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,160
I got to watch them in their
process.

708
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,560
I got to focus lights for them,
which is, you know, it's just,

709
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,120
it's amazing.
Fast forward graduated college

710
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,360
and then just immediately hit
the ground running, started like

711
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,440
sending resumes.
I mean, I really didn't have

712
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,040
much of A resume.
I had my college stuff and some

713
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,480
stuff I was doing over the
summer, but just sent my resume

714
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,360
out and was like begging people
to hire me.

715
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,160
Eventually, you know, I got
calls and I worked on shows and

716
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,360
I built up a resume and my name
got out there.

717
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,440
But one thing I will say about
theater is that it just doesn't

718
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,120
pay well.
Like you would spend 3 months on

719
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,320
a show and get $500.
Like that's just the way it is.

720
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,640
And you know, if there's one
good thing the pandemic taught

721
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,520
us is knowing yourself worth,
right?

722
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,440
You know, knowing what you're
worth and what a living wage is.

723
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,800
Well, we didn't do that.
Like I would go from 1 gig, open

724
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,240
a show, get in my car, pound a
Red Bull, drive 4 hours to

725
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,200
Vermont to design another show
that I spent three days

726
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:05,200
sleepless, tacking a show, then
drive home, have one day off, do

727
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,240
my laundry, go someplace.
It was just, you know, at one

728
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:14,040
point I was doing 35 almost 3540
shows a year, which is basically

729
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,920
I was in fact almost every week
of that year.

730
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:18,480
It's just not.
It's not.

731
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,360
And making enough to survive to
pay your rent, put gas in the

732
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,560
car and eat.
I mean that's.

733
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:27,320
Why though?
Why?

734
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,560
Why?
Why do you have to leave theater

735
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,720
and go to, like, you know,
corporate or rock'n'roll to make

736
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:39,680
any money?
Well, I it's the so.

737
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,640
So if you look at it right, so
if you look at, let's look at

738
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:47,600
concert touring, right, let's
say you know AB or a Lister

739
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,160
lighting director is making
somewhere between 3:00 to $5000

740
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,760
a week, right?
That's a week you would, if you

741
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:01,520
were lucky, doing a major
regional theater and spending at

742
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,880
this point, like the rates have
changed obviously with

743
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,640
inflation.
But at this point, like if

744
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,640
you're going to do a Broadway
show or Alert B, you're going to

745
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:16,720
probably be making four $5000
for the show and that's about,

746
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,920
you know anywhere from four to
six month commitment with

747
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,120
production meetings, reading
scripts, drafting your light

748
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,320
plots, talking to shops.
You know it's just it it and

749
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,240
ultimately what you're doing.
It's crazy ultimately like you

750
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:34,600
would hope that you have
multiple ones going on at the

751
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,240
same time.
So like you have your meeting

752
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,320
and then you're going into tack
and it it just it layers out

753
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,480
that way.
But you know when you're only

754
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:48,000
making $500, trust me, I I would
like go to New York City to work

755
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,120
on an Off Off Broadway show,
just to get an off Off Broadway

756
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,800
show credit where I'm getting
$250 because that's all the

757
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,120
producer.
Had is that just because, is

758
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,040
that because of the the
economics of a theater show like

759
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,520
is or did someone just, you
know, did you just get shoved

760
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,440
down the line to where you know
everybody gets paid before the

761
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,640
tech crew?
No, I think it's, I mean, even

762
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,960
actors, you look at actors, they
don't get paid nearly what

763
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,880
they're worth.
I mean that's why these summer

764
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,680
stock theaters, you know, these
kids are making, you know, maybe

765
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,680
100 and 5200 bucks a week, but
they're getting housing provided

766
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,480
and they're getting to do their
art.

767
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,080
That's kind of the selling
point, right?

768
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,880
But I mean, it's not, listen, I
love theater, and I'm actually

769
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,080
getting ready to do a theater
show in about a month.

770
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,360
I'm doing beautiful The Carole
King musical because I can, you

771
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,160
know, being being able, coming
from a theater background, it

772
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,120
allowed me to kind of train my
eyes to be able to work in

773
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,680
multiple disciplinary things
within lighting.

774
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,440
So like I could do concert
touring, I could do corporate, I

775
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:02,360
can do fashion, I can do, you
know, I I my, my skill set is

776
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,800
such that I'm not just I I came
up into this industry being

777
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,400
educated.
So I think that really helped me

778
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:12,920
to be able to diversify my
strengths within life.

779
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,440
So it's not.
Absolutely.

780
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:17,560
And I think, you know, it's
different.

781
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,600
You get some kids now, they're
coming in.

782
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,760
You know, they they go to
school.

783
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,960
They get like a basic tech
theater education and you know,

784
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,720
a lot of things that are a lot
of companies like cruise ships

785
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,560
are really hunting to find
people.

786
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,000
So they're getting these young
kids in and kind of shaping them

787
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,000
in a certain way.
Same thing goes with shops, you

788
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,920
know, you get these kids coming
in coiling cables and then

789
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,600
magically they get the
opportunity to be like an L3 on

790
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,320
on a major tour.
You know, I think it's it's all

791
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,400
the it's just the hustle, you
know, It's just whatever you

792
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,120
need to do to hustle and.
So is theatre still like, is

793
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,760
theatre still like your your,
you know, main love that you'd

794
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,760
love to go back to when you have
the opportunity?

795
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,920
Is it that kind of a thing or is
it just another gig?

796
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,440
No, I mean, nothing for me is
ever just a gig.

797
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,360
Even when it comes down to
corporate, because I I I care

798
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,160
too much.
Even if my name is like,

799
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,800
nobody's going to know who
designed this.

800
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,760
I just I I just care too much
like to to just go.

801
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,080
It's fine.
I don't think you can care too

802
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,360
much, you know, I think, I think
it's a good thing.

803
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,800
And that's what keeps you
getting hired is when you care

804
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,440
and people know that you give a
shit, right?

805
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,240
Yeah, well, I would, yeah, I
would hope so.

806
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,720
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, for me, I

807
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,840
whenever I came, like there was
a good chunk of time that I

808
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,600
didn't do theater, 'cause I was
just focused.

809
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,880
I was like the concert tour and
stuff that's just coming in.

810
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:49,920
You know, I was, you know, 2008,
18, I was, I was lighting

811
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,280
director on Evanescence 2019.
I was, you know, got into

812
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,960
lighting directing and you know
Alice In Chains and then that

813
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:02,920
kind of folded over to where it
was kind of a design.

814
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,840
It was a very Gray muddy area on
that, but but it was all this

815
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,320
stuff.
It just kept coming, You know,

816
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,480
phone calls kept coming,
opportunities kept coming.

817
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,880
And trust me, there were
theaters that reached out to me

818
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,920
and said, can you do the show?
And, you know, I tried to make

819
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,720
it work.
And it's, you know, I think in

820
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:27,120
the last, you know, six years
I've probably done about 6 to 10

821
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,680
theater shows, which it's, I
like it.

822
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,400
I want to keep doing it.
It is a passion of mine.

823
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,880
But you know, I still love being
in front of house and hearing

824
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,600
the go house lights go for show,
the lights flashing out, the

825
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:46,120
crowd just going insane and
getting those butterflies in my

826
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,000
stomach.
It's it's one of the it's it's

827
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:54,160
better than than drinking.
You know, I I don't do drugs but

828
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,840
it's better than like that.
Whatever.

829
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:56,480
You do.
Don't.

830
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,480
Don't say it's better than sex,
'cause I know you have a

831
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,760
girlfriend now and that can
cause you some issues.

832
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,720
Don't say that.
It's not.

833
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,280
It's not.
So.

834
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,200
No, it's just it's it's it's I
just love, I I just love what we

835
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,520
do, you know it's just it's such
a great.

836
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,200
Yeah, no, it's cool.
I mean, you know, I've never

837
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,480
been an LD who has stood at the
console and you know, called

838
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,640
cues and called house lights out
or whatever.

839
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,560
But I've been standing front of
house and been part of that.

840
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,960
And it's, it's even exciting for
me watching, you know, and

841
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,680
praying that whatever lights
that I sold to that production

842
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,480
work, you know, they come on
when when he calls that cue or

843
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,000
whatever, right?
Absolutely.

844
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:45,760
But so your your first tour, I
think tours that you did were

845
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,160
actually theater tours, not
rock'n'roll tours, right?

846
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,840
Yeah my first tour was I was the
lighting designer for the Moscow

847
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,960
Ballet which was kind of an
amazing experience.

848
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,240
I was I I worked at a as a house
LD at some people in your

849
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:06,760
podcast would know Social Music
Circus in up in Boston just

850
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,680
South Shore.
I was also the house LD at

851
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,280
Hampton Beach Casino Ballroom.
A couple of Any's in Boston and

852
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:20,000
one of the one of the production
managers of Social Music Circus.

853
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,000
It's a it's a summer venue, so
in the winter nobody's working.

854
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,560
So he got a job at with this
company in Western Mass that are

855
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,280
producers for the Moscow Ballet
and he said, hey, you're great

856
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,880
LD do you want to come out and
do this?

857
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:40,720
And I was like, hell yeah, I do.
So that was kind of a baptism by

858
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:45,240
fire.
I was basically on the road from

859
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:51,600
end of September through New
Year's and we were touring two

860
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,560
different shows we're doing
Sleeping Beauty and The

861
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,640
Nutcracker and we went
everywhere from Regina or

862
00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:59,640
Regina.
Sorry.

863
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:06,120
Regina to yeah.
I mean and it was it was like a

864
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,400
rock'n'roll tour.
We never did a sit down.

865
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:14,040
It was it was you know 6:00 AM
load insurance you know 2 show

866
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,400
days sometimes pack it all out
into the truck move on.

867
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,800
So trust me, I definitely
learned.

868
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,160
You know, I cut my teeth in
touring that way.

869
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,760
Did.
Did you tour on buses at that

870
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,680
time though?
Yeah, funny story.

871
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:35,560
Our tour bus on the Moscow Belly
tour was the Hanson Bop tour bus

872
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,880
in their music that they're
shooting the water, that they're

873
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,760
shooting the water guns out of
the windows, Yeah.

874
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,640
That's hilarious.
Yeah, it was pretty funny.

875
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,240
So let me ask you, because I'm
really curious and it's another

876
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:52,200
stupid Marcel question, but
living on a tour bus for a

877
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,320
ballet?
Different than living on a tour

878
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:03,560
bus for the cult.
Well, so we did we the the no,

879
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,520
not really.
Like we still have our crew

880
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,480
members.
We had, you know, we had a stage

881
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:12,800
manager lighting sound merch.
I just feel like the people

882
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,040
would be so much more cultured,
you know, on a on a ballet tour

883
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,400
than a rock'n'roll tour.
Like less drugs, less, less

884
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,480
nonsense, less.
You know of all the bad stuff.

885
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,520
I mean, I think the worst we did
was smoke pot like and we we

886
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,840
would drink like, but it wasn't.
It wasn't like.

887
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,200
I don't think we really had time
to party our face off like.

888
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,320
I mean, you want to talk about
grueling?

889
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,080
I think we had maybe four days
off that entire run.

890
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,960
One of them was Thanksgiving,
one of them was Christmas.

891
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:45,840
But we did actually.
We had a great time.

892
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,760
We got to we convinced our
production manager to ride our

893
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,560
bus to Key West for Christmas.
We parked up in an RV slot and

894
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,240
and basically for Christmas
dinner we caught fish and

895
00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:58,640
grilled them on the beach.
It was.

896
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,280
Pretty.
That's awesome.

897
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,320
It was pretty cool.
Wow.

898
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:06,920
But yeah, I mean it, it's, I
mean, a roadie is a roadie.

899
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,080
Even though, even if they're
theater roadies, you know.

900
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:09,480
They're.
I know.

901
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:10,920
I again.
It was fun.

902
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,600
Stupid Marcel question, but I I
just.

903
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,480
Wanted to ask a question.
Well, you know, I, like, I've

904
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,600
always been intrigued by the
idea of a tour bus, you know,

905
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,120
with eight of your closest
friends in bunks and stuff.

906
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,000
You know, but because I've never
done it, like I've toured with

907
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,640
bands as a band member.
But we never had AI, never made

908
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,520
it to the point of a tour bus.
We were in like a school bus

909
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,920
with the gear in the back and
the people in the front.

910
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,880
And you know, you either slept
on speaker cabinets in the back

911
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,880
or you slept on a seat in the
front.

912
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:48,080
And and that was about, you
know, as as fancy as touring got

913
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,880
for me.
But so that first tour, did you,

914
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,200
did you go, Oh yeah, this is
what I want to do.

915
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:59,120
Yeah, because I liked, I liked
the waking up in a different

916
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,640
city, but it was the same task,
you know what I mean?

917
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,560
It's like you, we got to do the
same thing, we got to achieve

918
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,160
the same goal, but it's a
different 4 walls.

919
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,600
Every day you're dealing with a
different crew.

920
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,280
So at a very young age I I
learned, I got a temperament for

921
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,160
being able to work with stage
hands.

922
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,720
And you know when you're walking
into, you know, Local 2, Local

923
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:27,040
3, Local 1 here as a young kid
and you're the head electrician

924
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,920
slash lighting designer and
you're talking to these guys

925
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,200
that have 40 years on you and
are, you know, gruff.

926
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,560
You learn how to, you learn how
to to to play.

927
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,280
You know the rules.
You know when to push and you

928
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,840
know when to you know what hell
to die on this.

929
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,320
You learn that really quick.
That's that's, yeah, that's a

930
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,080
good point.
So I think at a young age, like

931
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,080
being able to do that was, you
know, I, and I think I started

932
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:59,840
when I was doing that.
It was, I want to say it was

933
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,800
like 2627.
So I didn't start touring as a

934
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:09,720
kid, but I did.
I did learn, you know, baptism

935
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:11,880
by fire.
Like I didn't have that shop

936
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,720
work.
I didn't have that experience.

937
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,400
Like I'd I'd always wanted to go
concert touring.

938
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,920
Like I would go see like Dave
Matthews Band concerts.

939
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,560
Like they were my like Grateful
Dead when I was a kid, right.

940
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,200
So I would go to, I would go to
like, you know, 200 shows and

941
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,480
I'd always be like, oh man, this
lighting is so cool.

942
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,320
I would love to do this.
And you know who my grateful?

943
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:38,880
Dead was Grateful Dead.
Yeah, I'm old now.

944
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,040
I was never a Grateful Dead guy.
I was never a weed guy.

945
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,080
So I didn't get the Grateful
Dead, you know, It just didn't

946
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,960
like I loved Supertramp.
I loved more.

947
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,240
I don't know, just I loved bands
that I thought were good

948
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:55,120
musicians and stuff and and made
a really nice polished sound and

949
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:56,760
stuff.
I didn't like jam bands.

950
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,880
I I'd never been a Dave Matthews
fan, was never really a black

951
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,680
crow's fan, was never really a
counting crow's fan like all

952
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,960
these jam bands.
Just never really did anything

953
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,880
for me.
And that's that.

954
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,080
That's the beauty of it.
Like you don't need to like

955
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,480
everything that's out there.
That's why there's lots of

956
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,360
different stuff.
So you've you, you've toured.

957
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,360
What was your first rock'n'roll
tour?

958
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:27,360
OK, so it was Neon Trees back in
2011, 2012?

959
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:33,120
Oh, some really recent.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would say,

960
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,560
yeah, I mean 1010 years.
Yeah.

961
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:42,160
I mean it was like, you know,
working at Hampton Beach Casino,

962
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,560
Ballroom, working at, you know,
all these other places being

963
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,320
where I mastered my punting
craft.

964
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,920
You know, bands would be like,
oh, wow, those lights were

965
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,080
actually, it's like we're
carrying our own lighting

966
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:54,640
person.
Give me your card.

967
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,560
So I handed out cards left,
right and center.

968
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:04,600
And one of my one person, a
friend of mine now basically

969
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,360
said this band's looking for an
LD.

970
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,040
Are you are you interested?
Like you know they're coming to

971
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,640
Boston in four days.
Can you meet them at Paradise

972
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,640
and, you know see if it's a good
fit?

973
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,400
Went there, talked to the lead
singer, talked to a couple of

974
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,720
the members of the band, Walked
around with the production

975
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:25,320
manager.
Just kept trying to you know

976
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,480
he's feeling me out of as
production managers do and you

977
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,720
know the next morning I got a
phone call saying you know we

978
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:34,800
want to replace this guy, we
want you in.

979
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,160
Can you be in Norfolk at the
Norva in two days and I would

980
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:43,040
you replace, OK.
You don't have to tell me if you

981
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,920
don't want to, all right?
I can't say that I can't.

982
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,000
It was just, you know, he was an
older gentleman.

983
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,760
This was a younger band and
they're just aesthetics didn't

984
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:54,360
clash.
They clash.

985
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,200
They didn't.
They didn't melt and blend

986
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,720
together.
So.

987
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,520
So you know having somebody you
know within their age range that

988
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:05,240
has an aesthetic that we could
really push things.

989
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,920
The challenge to that was, you
know back then we didn't have

990
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,240
previs.
You know, previs is a relatively

991
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:18,880
new thing So and he was on a AVO
I want to say and I'm by no

992
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,600
means like the killer AVO guy.
And I was like, can I get my own

993
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,160
console?
And at that time Hog Three was

994
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,960
still out there.
Hog Four had not existed yet.

995
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:33,680
So I got myself a Hog Three and
literally day one set up the

996
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,600
floor package the way I wanted
the floor package to be set up

997
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,360
that it wasn't prepped properly.
So I had to re prep it.

998
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,480
And then I just sat down and
started programming and I

999
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,760
probably got through five songs
and then the rest of the show I

1000
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,360
just punted.
And then each day I would set up

1001
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,000
program a little bit more, you
know, punch what I didn't have

1002
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,760
and just kind of built the show
as I went.

1003
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,680
And unfortunately that that was
a reoccurring theme for me.

1004
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,000
IIA lot of my friends called me
the Doctor because several

1005
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,800
bands, you know, in this time
period would call me to fix

1006
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,520
shows.
You know, they hired a young kid

1007
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,720
who didn't know what they were
doing or whatever.

1008
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,200
So I would be brought in and I'd
have to redesign the show from

1009
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,720
scratch.
So I I got really good at that.

1010
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,640
Yeah.
No previous just going in there

1011
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:21,120
and.
That's a good thing, though.

1012
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:25,840
That's a really good thing.
I mean you know I think you know

1013
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:32,200
guys like Cosmo have have done
so great at just being adaptable

1014
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,560
and and you know like Cosmo when
he first came on my podcast he

1015
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,960
said, you know I just say yes
and then I figure it out.

1016
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,680
I say yes to everything and I
figure it out you know and

1017
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,040
that's it's it's a good attitude
to have and this fix it doctor

1018
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:51,440
guy is also a really good thing.
You know, it's it's, I think

1019
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,160
it's good to become known as a
guy who can come in and solve

1020
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,560
some problems and fix some stuff
and and make you happy, you

1021
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,680
know, yeah.
So I mean and even if it's you

1022
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,600
know, you would hope it would be
a long term thing like you come

1023
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,680
in, you, you fix it.
They're happy with it.

1024
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,600
You know I remember the first
night another bands I work for

1025
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,800
Mr. Wives.
I met them at Boston Calling

1026
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,280
and, you know, four days later
they were like, hey, are you

1027
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,640
available?
And we'd like you to come out

1028
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,000
and replace this.
You know, this person, he's just

1029
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,760
young.
He didn't, he didn't prep any of

1030
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,480
his limbs.
Everything was loose cable.

1031
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,880
So when you would open up the
trunk, you would be just like a

1032
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,520
Stinger and you're just like
what is going on here?

1033
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,960
So the loadings would take 8
hours.

1034
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,480
And then it was, it was not
good.

1035
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,800
So you know the first night that
I did the show, like, I'm, you

1036
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,200
know, you take your shower,
you're getting on the bus,

1037
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,120
getting ready to roll.
And the guitar players, like, he

1038
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,720
knew I was there because I was
above him and he just flew open

1039
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,680
the curtain to the bunk and he
was like this photo, this photo

1040
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,080
is amazing.
You make me look like a God.

1041
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:56,000
And I was like that's the best
compliment you could get right

1042
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,440
now that that there's in one
night, one show that, you know,

1043
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,440
they they're happy with it.
That's cool.

1044
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,640
So.
And you hope that that

1045
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,760
relationship continues and you
get to keep working with those

1046
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:08,200
bands.
Yeah.

1047
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,480
So.
Yeah, now that's really cool.

1048
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,480
And I mean you did some, you did
some cool stuff.

1049
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,160
Maroon 5 of an Essence.
I was lighting director on

1050
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:23,600
Maroon 5.
That was a demphis design way

1051
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,960
back, way back in the day.
That was the first time I got to

1052
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,760
meet and work with Joe Cabrera.
He was that was an amazing

1053
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,880
experience.
I had to.

1054
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,600
I had to learn MA for that.
So I knew just enough MA to be

1055
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,600
dangerous.
Yeah, so.

1056
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:43,440
Wow, I forgot about Demphis.
Yeah, yeah, that's a sad one.

1057
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:45,840
Yep.
Absolutely.

1058
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,880
So how'd you How'd you get into
the cult?

1059
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:55,520
How'd that happen?
So the tour manager for the Cult

1060
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,200
used to tour manage Alice In
Chains and we were wrapping up

1061
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,480
the Alice In Chains Rainier Fog
tour in 2019.

1062
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:10,680
And I'm trying to remember who I
think it's actually like Court

1063
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,800
Lawrence actually I think
recommended like he was, he

1064
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:20,960
wasn't available and he reached
out to me or put out feelers and

1065
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,440
somebody recommended me because
they knew my tour was coming to

1066
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,040
an end and put me in touch with
the tour manager.

1067
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,680
The tour manager had actually,
you know, a couple years

1068
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:30,720
earlier, stopped tour managing
Alice in Chain.

1069
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,520
So he's like, OK, we have that
connection and you know I took

1070
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,520
over Alice In Chains from Marty
Postma.

1071
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,560
He was like, I love Marty
Postma.

1072
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,600
So we got that bond going and
then basically we just, we would

1073
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,440
talk on the phone and it was a
European Tour and they were

1074
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,960
ultimately looking for auk tour.
Ultimately they were trying to

1075
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,400
find Auk designer.
So they didn't have to pay for

1076
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,480
for flights because it was a
small tour.

1077
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,680
It's only like 2, 1/2 weeks.
And he was like, so after about,

1078
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,000
like, I want to say 5 phone
conversations, he was like,

1079
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,760
what's preventing me from hiring
you?

1080
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,360
And I was like a plane ticket.
And he was like, you're in.

1081
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,320
All right, we're getting you a
flight and we'll see you in

1082
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:13,920
three weeks.
That's hilarious.

1083
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,360
I mean it's, you know it's
sometimes you got to work for

1084
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:18,360
it, but.
And when was that?

1085
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:19,600
What?
What year was that?

1086
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,880
2019 So the fall oh.
You've been with the Cult for a

1087
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:24,720
long time, then for four or five
years.

1088
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,000
Well, I mean, we did have that.
Yeah, Yeah.

1089
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,720
Pause.
Yeah, yeah.

1090
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,120
You came right back with them
after it, right?

1091
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,000
They didn't find somebody during
Covad to bump you.

1092
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,080
Yeah.
No, that's good.

1093
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:40,160
I mean, The thing is, The thing
is, I really in that camp, like,

1094
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,760
it's, you know, there are
different dynamics, right?

1095
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,600
And there are a lot of people
who are listening to this

1096
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,560
podcast that have probably
worked with that band and know

1097
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:52,000
the dynamics within that band.
But there's something about

1098
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,280
like, yes, it can get stressful.
Yes, it can get confusing

1099
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,520
because one person is saying one
thing and another person is

1100
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,800
saying another.
But the thing that I've always

1101
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,520
discovered with that band is
there's just something about

1102
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,400
when they're playing and when
you're doing your show.

1103
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,480
I have never had more fun in my
life lighting a band than

1104
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,840
lighting the cult.
I just there's something about

1105
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,160
it.
They're they're that old school

1106
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,160
rock band that doesn't play the
tracks.

1107
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,400
And while they might flub a note
here or there every once in a

1108
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,400
while, they especially after.
The pandemic?

1109
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,960
Especially after the pandemic
they are playing and they sound

1110
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,960
like 30 years ago, it's like
it's absolutely amazing and the

1111
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,080
energy that they give on stage
every night is just, it's just

1112
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,840
amazing.
So when you when you talk about

1113
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,840
a dynamic, is that like Ian
Aspery and and what's the other

1114
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,360
guy's name like they don't get
along well or something?

1115
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,200
No.
No, they do.

1116
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:52,560
It's just, you know, Ian has.
The thing that I like about Ian

1117
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,400
is he's an artist like through
and through.

1118
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:00,160
Like we will get into deep
conversations about, you know,

1119
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,520
design concepts like he his, his
big influences are like 9 inch

1120
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,840
nails and Bow house, right?
So he keeps sending me, so we're

1121
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,120
on a tour where we have this big
sepia backdrop that's a mountain

1122
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,120
and it has the Sonic Temple logo
on it, right?

1123
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,160
And he keeps sending me these
Bauhaus 9 inch nail photos and

1124
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,000
says I want my show to look like
that.

1125
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:25,120
And I said OK, what is the, what
is the overarching theme that

1126
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,920
you're seeing in all of these
photos?

1127
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,400
That's really that that you want
and he goes, you clearly have

1128
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,920
the answer to this why don't you
just tell me and I said negative

1129
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,960
space there's darkness there's
black there's there's like an

1130
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,840
infinite in infinitesimal amount
of space back there and it just

1131
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,320
goes Meanwhile we have a
backdrop that even when you

1132
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,520
completely black out the the
stage you can still see it.

1133
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,400
So you know that at least got us
into a conversation where I

1134
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,680
could production design and be.
We then started getting, we got

1135
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,000
rid of that backdrop and we
brought in this, we went to

1136
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:05,440
rent, I went to rent what and
got this amazing backdrop.

1137
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,400
It was called black camo chaos
and it looks like an old

1138
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:14,440
Austrian drape and it had, it's
made out of tank camo netting

1139
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,800
and it's painted in peers and
blacks and Grays and it's all

1140
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,880
swag.
So it looks very gothic but when

1141
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,600
you turn the lights off or you
don't light it, it completely

1142
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,280
goes away.
So you just have this infant,

1143
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,520
this infinite blackness back
there.

1144
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,880
And from that moment we were
able to really start crafting a

1145
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,200
design for this band that I
wasn't competing with, this

1146
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:38,800
sepia toned backdrop that really
didn't, to me, didn't really

1147
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,640
speak to what this band was
anymore.

1148
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,560
I feel like they've they've
evolved into like going, you

1149
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,240
know, they're technically a goth
band, right?

1150
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,160
Goth rock or whatever.
But I still see them as like

1151
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:54,120
they're you know, especially
like the hits that they play.

1152
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,600
It doesn't seem very gothy to
me, you know like Firewoman, she

1153
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:00,600
sells sanctuary.
That stuff is to me that's

1154
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,680
rock'n'roll.
That's like 80s rocks, eighties,

1155
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:08,440
90's rock, you know.
But what we just did this 40th

1156
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,800
anniversary of of death cult
where it was all the Dreamtime

1157
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:17,120
record where it's like 83rd
dream Dreamtime Christians like

1158
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:22,360
all that stuff that is that the
sounds that like new Wave you

1159
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:27,240
know post punk goth sounds that
that like when they say they're

1160
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,600
goth, I'm like yes that is 100%
goth.

1161
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,360
Yeah, and we were able to really
achieve some cool stuff on this

1162
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,040
last.
So let me ask you, because I I

1163
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,680
was, you know, I was a minor
cult fan I would say, but I

1164
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,160
didn't know about this Death
cult thing.

1165
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:45,560
And when I first saw you going
out to tour with death cult, I'm

1166
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,840
like, is this the same band or
what is it?

1167
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,520
And so I Googled it and and so
they were.

1168
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,640
That was the original version of
the cult, right?

1169
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:55,600
Was.
Yeah.

1170
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,880
Well, there was Southern, yeah,
it was Southern Death Cult was

1171
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:03,880
or yes, Southern Death Cult was
the first iteration and then

1172
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,840
some members fell off.
I believe that was Ian's

1173
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:13,320
original band.
Then Billy came in and then they

1174
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,440
created, you know, they
basically dropped the Southern

1175
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,480
and just named it Death Cult.
And that's that's kind of like

1176
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:25,680
where they found their sound and
they did one album which was

1177
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,680
this death cult stuff and then
basically they dropped to the

1178
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:30,720
death and just became the cult
after that.

1179
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,480
So it's just it's a it's it's
just a growth process like us as

1180
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,400
artists, as me, as a designer,
as an artist like you grow, you

1181
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,680
develop, you rebrand.
That's kind of what they.

1182
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,360
Did so when when they went out
and toured as Death Cult, did

1183
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:49,720
they just play that one album?
Pretty much they they basically

1184
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:55,080
played that album they played
She Sells, Sanctuary Rain.

1185
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,480
They basically said they weren't
going to play anything past

1186
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,440
Rain, The The Rain where the
album That Rain is on.

1187
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,880
And then they played Ed Spirit
Walker I think was another song

1188
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:09,480
that they played on there.
But I mean it was like 17 or 18

1189
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,680
songs.
I mean it was it was a pretty

1190
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,680
pretty.
I mean also those songs, you

1191
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,080
know some of them are shorter
than others.

1192
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:20,000
So the set, you know, while if
you're doing, you know,

1193
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,240
Firewoman or you know any of the
older songs that are definitely

1194
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,479
like 5 to 6 minutes long, these
songs, some of them are like two

1195
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,720
or three minutes long.
So, you know, the set times kind

1196
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,120
of truncate themselves, but you
know, I mean.

1197
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,560
But is it basically just the
same fans?

1198
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,520
Like, they just go, oh, the cult
is back again and this time

1199
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,080
they're back as the death cult.
And so I'm just going to get

1200
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,880
tickets again, right?
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

1201
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,600
These the The thing is, this is
the first time this band has

1202
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:52,920
played these songs in 40, you
know, 3930. 8 to 40, something

1203
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:54,120
like that.
Give or take.

1204
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,600
So the nostalgia of these people
coming to and and the band made

1205
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,200
an effort to play smaller rooms.
They wanted to play rooms that

1206
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,240
they played back then.
So.

1207
01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:09,600
You know we're in.
But in a sense, it's kind of

1208
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,439
like KISS saying we're going to
do just the Destroyer album or

1209
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,960
whatever, right?
And going into exactly which a

1210
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,520
lot of sort of classic rock
bands are starting to do now.

1211
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:24,160
Like, I just saw one the other
day who's going, oh, an 80s

1212
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:25,359
band, who was it?
Rat.

1213
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:30,040
Rat Or he's touring Rat with and
they're doing the entire Out of

1214
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:34,640
the Cellar album.
And you know, but a lot of

1215
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:40,080
Sebastian Bach is doing it too.
He's doing the the first Skid

1216
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,200
Row album, which I forget what
it's called.

1217
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,520
I was never a huge fan, but
yeah, so that's that's cool.

1218
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,880
So, but I mean, was it the same
design or did you actually

1219
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,279
change up the design too?
So the challenge so the

1220
01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:57,440
challenge for that show was we
in the middle of the it's.

1221
01:09:57,440 --> 01:10:02,960
So in October we went out to do
a West Coast run with just

1222
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,680
straight up cult.
But in the middle of that we did

1223
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,960
a show at the Ace Hotel in LA
that was Death cult.

1224
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:17,520
It was we were doing one night
in LA, this death cult show, and

1225
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:21,520
I had to basically start
programming these songs with the

1226
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:26,680
existing cult rig and then when
I went to the Uki adapted it.

1227
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,480
So the one cool, one of the cool
things about Ian is he's like he

1228
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:33,240
he wants it to be as hazy as the
cemetery on stage.

1229
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,800
He told me that he's like, I
don't, I want it to be dark, I

1230
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:39,720
don't want front light.
So that's a challenge to get let

1231
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,400
the audience be able to see
them, see them without pissing

1232
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,920
off, you know, the talent.
I mean, I saw pictures.

1233
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,200
I just thought maybe you were a
shady designer or something.

1234
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,120
I could never see the band.
No, I'm kidding.

1235
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,800
You could actually see the The
crazy thing is you could

1236
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:57,040
actually, you actually could see
them.

1237
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:58,440
I and I would, you know, I
would.

1238
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,320
My front light color choices
were always really important.

1239
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:06,920
They were not overly saturated,
but like it was a blue with, you

1240
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:10,080
know, a little paler blue than I
would use in a, you know, fully

1241
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,600
saturated blue.
Yeah, and it was it would, you

1242
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,960
know, it would be enough for
them to feel comfortable on

1243
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,880
stage.
The other thing is he loves

1244
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,080
strobes.
So I had to you know in my

1245
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,360
initial cult design, I had eight
JDC ones on this.

1246
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:29,520
I added four more.
I added a bunch more mega points

1247
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,280
on towers.
You know I I just, I kept the

1248
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,320
the core of what I had in my
programming, but I just beefed

1249
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:39,960
it up, you know and I caught I
think I had some Tetra ones that

1250
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:42,840
unfortunately the vendor didn't
have so I just caught them.

1251
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,120
The Tetra ones were like
lighting the back line and we

1252
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:49,640
didn't need to do that, so.
It.

1253
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,600
Was all in a hot floor.
I actually my I brought my fly

1254
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:59,240
rig console which I built, which
is great, you know it fits in a

1255
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,440
1637 Pelican and I can fly
anywhere in the world with it.

1256
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:06,440
It is 64 universes more than AMA
3 full size.

1257
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:11,240
Wow, have you never had any
pressure to like, learn an MA

1258
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,320
console?
Or do you know an MA console

1259
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:17,800
well enough to run a show or?
I can run a show but I can't

1260
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:22,560
program a show on it.
And I I see my whole thing is

1261
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,800
I'd rather be really good at one
thing than just OK and others.

1262
01:12:28,440 --> 01:12:32,880
I you know I picked up learning
Hog in college.

1263
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:38,280
We got an amazing capital
improvement grant when I was in

1264
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,640
college and my first moving
lights console was a Hog 500.

1265
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:43,960
So basically that's what I
learned on.

1266
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:48,440
So I felt really comfortable
like being you know 20 plus

1267
01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:50,680
years.
That's what I felt comfortable

1268
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,960
on.
Obviously a Hog 500 is a huge,

1269
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,480
huge leaps and bounds to you
know a Hog 4 right now.

1270
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,480
But it's just it's just what I
feel comfortable with.

1271
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:03,920
I can program just as good of a
show as anyone on an MA.

1272
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:07,360
It's it.
It it's not a it's not a Hog 3.

1273
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:14,080
And I'm sure the MA family of
people would love that the Hog 3

1274
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:17,280
happens, because it it they they
did get the lion's share of Hog

1275
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,720
3 programmers moving over to the
Ms. Yeah, yeah, they lost their,

1276
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,360
they lost their market really
quickly on the hog three, you

1277
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,400
know, because the hog two owned
the market.

1278
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:32,480
I mean like literally 98% of the
console market was hog two and

1279
01:13:32,480 --> 01:13:37,800
then hog three happened and it
kind of went let's let's create

1280
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,720
like these fingers of lots of
different stuff out there, you

1281
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:42,600
know, because the hog.
Three.

1282
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,000
Well, you know, had.
Some issues.

1283
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,480
You know, I will say just to any
manufacturer listening here,

1284
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:53,640
don't ever put a three in the
name of your your product.

1285
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:59,600
There's the Mac 3, the Hog 3.
Yeah, yeah.

1286
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,760
And other threes, yeah.
Another three.

1287
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:03,720
How many?
How many enemies you want to

1288
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:05,440
make on one podcast.
We got to be careful.

1289
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:07,600
Yeah, it's.
All about the lobby.

1290
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,800
No, I mean, honestly, it's, you
know, it's we can all razz each

1291
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,880
other.
I get so much crap for being

1292
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,640
guy, but you know, there's
plenty of work and I like being

1293
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,640
known as one of the guys to to
be able to come in and do it.

1294
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:26,640
So it's also nice to be
important to your vendor, you

1295
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,000
know what I mean?
Like you can call, ETC.

1296
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,000
And say, hey, here's some things
that I'd like to see changed.

1297
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,280
Or, you know, I'm sure they're
probably going to talk to you

1298
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:38,680
when they're creating the Hog 5.
If they probably already are

1299
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:42,000
creating the Hog 5, but you
know, I'm sure they're going to,

1300
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,160
I'm sure they're going to talk
to you because you've been one

1301
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:48,400
of their most loyal users, you
know, still to this.

1302
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,600
Day.
I mean there are more, there are

1303
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:52,720
more of us out there.
I'm just going to let you know,

1304
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:54,720
but.
No, no, I mean, we sell used hog

1305
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:58,800
fours as fast as we get them.
So I know there's lots of lots

1306
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:03,720
of happy users of hog fours.
But but yeah, I mean, I I just

1307
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:07,240
wonder like as a guy in New York
who's, you know, looking to put

1308
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:12,080
food on the table and stuff, are
you forced to at some point

1309
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:17,120
learn the MA2MA3MA whatever?
And it doesn't seem like it.

1310
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:21,360
Yeah, I mean, I survived a
global pandemic living in New

1311
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,400
York City and I found barely,
somehow found a way, barely,

1312
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:28,960
barely, somehow, somehow found a
way to pay my rent.

1313
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:30,640
So.
Yeah, I mean I wanted to talk

1314
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:33,480
about that cuz I actually every
once in a while I go back and

1315
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:35,520
watch some of the zoom calls
that I recorded.

1316
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,440
I didn't record them all, but I
recorded some of them.

1317
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:42,240
I saw one saw one of your ones
that you posted on Instagram on

1318
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,560
the geezers Instagram and it's
just there's a it's zoomed in on

1319
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,120
like four of us.
It's Marcia Stern and me up at

1320
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:50,480
the top.
And I just, I'm like, yeah,

1321
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,840
well, I think that's.
And you can correct me if I'm

1322
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:55,640
wrong, but isn't that how we
met?

1323
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:57,920
Like on those zoom calls?
Like, I don't think I knew you

1324
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,440
before that and I didn't know
you.

1325
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:03,080
We got to know each other pretty
well and became friends.

1326
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,160
Yeah.
And I wanted to say thank you so

1327
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:10,120
very much for doing those
because it was such AI looked

1328
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:14,480
forward to those every week.
Like that was like my me too, my

1329
01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:17,160
touch with reality.
Yeah, no, me too.

1330
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:22,640
I looked forward to it as well.
I mean a lot of us, we were sort

1331
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:26,200
of going through detox or or you
know, whatever you want to call

1332
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:28,000
it.
I mean it was just like, you

1333
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,440
know, everything's gone.
Like, you know, my whole life is

1334
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:32,800
gone.
All my friends are gone.

1335
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:34,760
What do I do?
I mean, you could still talk to

1336
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:36,440
your friends, but it just wasn't
the same.

1337
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:41,440
But you know where that whole
idea came from was I owned a

1338
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:47,480
franchise company as well and
and it was actually had just

1339
01:16:47,480 --> 01:16:49,400
wound down.
But I still knew a lot of people

1340
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,600
in the franchise business.
And one of my franchise friends

1341
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:57,000
said I was just on a zoom happy
hour.

1342
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,560
And I said what's a zoom happy
hour?

1343
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:00,480
And they said, Oh yeah,
everybody just goes on there and

1344
01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:02,800
drinks.
And I said, well jeez, I got to

1345
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,520
do a zoom happy hour for for my
industry because everyone loves

1346
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,440
to drink in my industry and and
nobody's got anything to do

1347
01:17:09,440 --> 01:17:11,080
right now.
We're completely shut down.

1348
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:15,280
And so it just started as that,
you know, it was just like, hey,

1349
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,880
I threw, I threw it out there
and see if anybody shows up and

1350
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,920
I think the first week like 10
or 15 people showed up and the

1351
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:24,680
next week it was 20 and the next
week it was 25 and.

1352
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,000
I mean we had up to, we had up
to 100 at 1:00.

1353
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:32,200
Point I I think I had over 100
'cause I had to upgrade zoom for

1354
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:36,120
a bit there and pay for the over
101.

1355
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:41,920
And but you know it it some
weeks got a little tense because

1356
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:46,640
we were also going through an
election period and and you know

1357
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:52,160
so not everyone agreed on
everything politically of course

1358
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:56,360
and and socially Like there were
some some people who were really

1359
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,360
into some social topics and some
people who were a little bit

1360
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:03,720
against them And and it was
funny because you know some

1361
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:06,720
people were more vocal than
others on the other side,

1362
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:10,280
especially like on the call it
the Trump mega side or whatever

1363
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:17,040
and didn't really say much but
I'd get calls from those people

1364
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,920
after the podcast going, you
know, that that asshole said

1365
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:23,840
blah, blah, blah and and I'm
like why don't you just discuss

1366
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,960
it during the thing and and you
know I guess it was really hard

1367
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,320
cuz it was a it was a toxic
environment, you know.

1368
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:33,120
Yeah.
Well, it doesn't help when you

1369
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:36,120
start talking politics and
you're drinking.

1370
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,640
Right, right.
And you know, I remember one

1371
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:44,040
time the most tense it ever got.
I was actually at a racetrack.

1372
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:45,960
Go figure.
And.

1373
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:47,320
Watching your son.
Right.

1374
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:47,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

1375
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:53,200
And I remember Greg Jones from
Martin Goes.

1376
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,280
So I just want to ask a
question, where's everybody on

1377
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:01,160
masking?
And I was just like, oh, we

1378
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,520
shouldn't go there.
And then I think it was Koenig

1379
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,880
who went, why not?
And I said because we promised

1380
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:10,200
we'd never talk about politics
or anything divisive or.

1381
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:14,800
And he goes, well, why the fuck
should masks be political or or

1382
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:16,640
divisive?
And I went, well, this is

1383
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,160
exactly why we shouldn't talk
about this, right?

1384
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,280
Let's just stay friendly.
Why not?

1385
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:23,840
And then it got a little bit
ugly and finally I was like,

1386
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:26,880
guys, I'm just going to end the
call because I don't want to

1387
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:28,520
argue.
Like I don't want to be in this

1388
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:31,800
position.
I I love all of you and you

1389
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,320
know, so and and I'm the same
today.

1390
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:38,280
Like I I'm getting ready to
start shutting down Facebook

1391
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:41,360
here soon because it's going to
start getting the same way again

1392
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,040
and I just don't want to be a
part of that.

1393
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:45,680
Yeah.
Sometimes a digital detox is a

1394
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:47,560
good thing to have.
You know it's.

1395
01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:51,680
But you know, the other thing
that I I remembered while I was

1396
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:55,200
prepping for this podcast was
you were a big part of the We

1397
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,480
Make Events thing.
And you know, when when that

1398
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:02,120
idea first started circulating,
you raised your hand instantly

1399
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:04,080
and said, Yep, I'm in.
I want to be a part of it.

1400
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:07,560
And you became part of that
initial sort of exploratory

1401
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:12,920
discussion that we had and and.
It gave me, I mean I got to say

1402
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:14,920
like especially for our
industry, it gave me so much

1403
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:17,880
purpose especially when it's
like every day it's like the

1404
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:19,040
same.
So what are you going to do?

1405
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:22,720
It's like, yeah, it's it, it
was, it was so amazing to be

1406
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:27,480
able to get on phone calls with
people and and plan and and just

1407
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:29,360
bring a lighting, I mean.
Things.

1408
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,880
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you know it was probably

1409
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,080
the first time in history that,
you know, that many lighting

1410
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:41,120
people were so excited to work
for free, you know, and, but,

1411
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:45,880
but it really was like, I mean
people seeing lighting companies

1412
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:48,480
loading up trucks full of
lights.

1413
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:52,240
I mean some of these gigs were
big, you know, and they were

1414
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:55,360
loading up lights and trusts and
all kinds of stuff and

1415
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,320
programming and everything.
And they were so happy to do it.

1416
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:02,600
It's it's the proudest I've ever
been in my career and and the

1417
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,080
most happy I've ever been to be
a part of something.

1418
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:07,320
Like I remember saying to my
girlfriend the night that it was

1419
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,760
going on and I was watching the
the Christian Jackson live

1420
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,480
stream thing, I remember saying
to my girlfriend, you know, this

1421
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:18,320
is definitely a pinch me moment,
like something that hopefully we

1422
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:22,040
never have to do again, but I'm
so happy that I was a part of

1423
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:24,360
it, you know?
I mean, the camaraderie, like

1424
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:29,520
the people that I met in this
industry, like the people that I

1425
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:32,520
would probably never meet, you
know that you're friends with

1426
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:34,520
obviously, because you're just
so connected.

1427
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:38,640
But like Norm Schwab and like
all the West Coast light switch

1428
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:42,840
people and you know just it just
all of those people you know

1429
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:46,640
coming together and and you know
it was just it was it it was so

1430
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,080
amazing.
I actually still over.

1431
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:52,400
Here.
Marsha Marsha gave me these.

1432
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,320
These are the Gobos.
Yeah, she gave me some too, but

1433
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,640
I never got smart enough to
frame them, so I'm going to have

1434
01:21:57,640 --> 01:21:59,200
to do that.
That's a great idea.

1435
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:02,080
That's a really cool idea.
Yeah, she sent me a.

1436
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:04,480
T-shirt and some Gobos.
Yeah.

1437
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:07,200
It's nice to be able to just
look at it and remember and like

1438
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,520
kind of smile.
You know it's just there was a

1439
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:13,920
it it I definitely like.
I just remember when we were in

1440
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,760
New York City and like you know
Herrick was going around taking

1441
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:20,760
photos of like putting the We
Make Events logo on the theaters

1442
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,240
and then you know somebody
called us or something and said

1443
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:26,200
the Empire State Building just
went red.

1444
01:22:26,440 --> 01:22:29,960
The Empire State Building that
was like, Oh my God, it's

1445
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:31,960
amazing.
And having that Madison Square

1446
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:36,760
Garden and just, you know, it
was no, it was getting a little

1447
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,360
teary.
Eyed dude it was it was crazy.

1448
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,040
It was again.
I mean, I was probably up 24

1449
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:46,040
hours at one point And and you
know, because there was just a

1450
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,040
lot going on like coordinating a
lot of different people and

1451
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:53,160
different things and media and,
you know, trying to do this

1452
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,560
broadcast thing with Christian
and I had no idea what I was

1453
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,680
doing And and thank God he kind
of did.

1454
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,240
And no, I mean it.
The coolest thing ever.

1455
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:07,160
I I wish it would have swung the
politicians a little more than

1456
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:09,640
it did.
But you can talk to people from

1457
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:13,200
outside our industry today about
that And they go, oh, you were a

1458
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:14,600
part of that.
That's really cool.

1459
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:17,160
I remember that.
You know, I saw so and so was

1460
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,920
red or whatever.
So yeah, that was cool.

1461
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:21,400
But you were a big part of that.
You were.

1462
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:22,880
You were right there at the
front end of it.

1463
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:28,360
So you know, part of the sort of
Core 4 or 8 or whatever it was,

1464
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:29,920
I don't remember.
I think they were like either

1465
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,520
eight or ten of us.
Yeah, it was like Chris Hassan

1466
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,240
and, yeah, a bunch of.
Chris Hassan, Marsha.

1467
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:39,440
And.
Me, Cosmo, Brad Nelms, of

1468
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:42,640
course, who became the leader of
it when I couldn't do it anymore

1469
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:45,160
because it was just too much.
Yeah.

1470
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:47,120
Yeah.
No, it was fun.

1471
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:48,600
It was fun.
It was great.

1472
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,400
Yeah, we went to war together,
brother.

1473
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,520
We absolutely did.
It was fun and sometimes we

1474
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,240
didn't agree on everything, but
we found a way to the end of it

1475
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,360
somehow, you know?
Compromise.

1476
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:01,040
Compromise.
Well, that's what this

1477
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:02,560
industry's about, right?
Getting it done.

1478
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,160
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I appreciate you taking

1479
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,080
some time today, Mr. Matt.
Absolutely.

1480
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,160
It's been fun to get you on.
Finally.

1481
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:13,240
I I thought you were just too
young, you know, So I had to

1482
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:15,760
wait until you aged a bit.
I see a little tiny bit of.

1483
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:17,560
Gray in your beard?
I'm not that.

1484
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,440
Young, tiny bit of Gray in your
beard and you got a girlfriend

1485
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:22,800
now and stuff, so you know
you're definitely, you've

1486
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,920
matured, young man, yeah.
A little bit older, a little bit

1487
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:27,600
wiser.
Is she sick of the touring

1488
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:31,480
business yet?
It's always a, it's always a

1489
01:24:31,480 --> 01:24:34,600
challenge.
Like you know, we met, we

1490
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:39,600
actually met during the pandemic
and you know it was I I I've

1491
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:44,760
never not been truthful about
what I do and and the extent of

1492
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:48,600
my traveling.
I have cut back a little bit on

1493
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:51,000
my traveling.
I've been a little more

1494
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:55,080
selective on jobs.
Like before we dated, you know,

1495
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,640
before the pandemic.
I would just take whatever I

1496
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:01,720
could because why not?
Yeah, but I miss, you know, I do

1497
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,120
miss being home, but I also miss
being on the road.

1498
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,800
And it's not, it's not because I
want to escape anything going on

1499
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,080
here.
I I absolutely love being home.

1500
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,520
I just love lighting.
I love it's part.

1501
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:14,360
Of your life.
It's a big.

1502
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,400
Part of your life.
Yeah, I mean, what are you going

1503
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:17,920
to do?
It's a big part of your life and

1504
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,960
it's amazing when you find
somebody who is understanding

1505
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,920
about it.
You know and and can deal with

1506
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:25,280
it.
You know not everyone can

1507
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:27,960
obviously.
It's a it's a tough lifestyle to

1508
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:30,320
be a part of.
I mean I'm not it's not all

1509
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:34,320
roses and unicorns and stuff.
You know it's there are days

1510
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:38,120
where it's you know I'm five
time you know 5 hour time

1511
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:41,960
difference or you know and you
know getting getting able to

1512
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:45,160
have those conversations.
You know, it's it can be, it can

1513
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:48,040
be a challenge, but you know
it's it's it's all about

1514
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:49,800
compromise and trying to make it
work.

1515
01:25:50,440 --> 01:25:54,520
You know and hopefully and
hopefully we can you know, keep

1516
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,160
on trucking down this road.
Well, and and having the

1517
01:25:57,160 --> 01:26:01,840
discipline and and, you know,
just care to to, you know get up

1518
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:04,960
at the right time to make sure
you make that call or whatever,

1519
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:08,640
like you know, the windows and
to hit those windows and stuff.

1520
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,400
Like it's hard.
I mean, again, especially when

1521
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,280
you're in Europe and she's
probably got a regular good job

1522
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,360
and you know, she goes to work
and so, yeah, well, good luck to

1523
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:19,840
you with that.
Seems like you guys are having.

1524
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,440
Fun.
I see your pictures, so yeah.

1525
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:24,080
We're Tran.
We're Tran.

1526
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:25,880
Cool.
All right, buddy.

1527
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:27,280
Well, it's good to see you, my
friends.

1528
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,920
And you as well.
All right, talk to.

1529
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:30,920
You soon?
All right, buddy.