#217 - Emily Bornt - Lighting Designer and Director

0:02 Hi and thank you for joining me today on Geases of Gear Episode #217. Today's podcast is brought to you by ACT Entertainment, debuting this year at LDI. The new Lunch Box PD line from AC Power Distribution is a simple, compact, and efficient solution that brings power and data distribution together in a new but familiar form factor. Whether you are expanding a data network along existing Power Distribution or bringing wireless data exactly where it's needed, the power and data configurations you need can be achieved together, all inside the durable, compact, and proven Lunch Box form factor with which you are already familiar.

0:53 If you haven't had a chance to see this yet, please reach out to ACT Entertainment for a chance to check it out or visit www.actentertainment.com and this episode is also brought to you by gearsource.com. Gearsource was founded in 2002 with a mission to help global live events businesses move gear around the planet. Since that time, the company has transacted in more than 100 countries, selling over a quarter billion dollars in sound, lighting, staging and video gear. Now Gearsource has completely evolved its platform for massive global growth enabling 14 different localized currencies, payments held in escrow to protect buyers and sellers, AI powered logistics behind a new global logistics brand called Gear Moves and so much more.

1:49 Please visit gearsource.com today and expand your access to global markets for your gear and global gear for your markets. Hi there. Hello again, it's me. And so one of the things I forgot to bring up on the promos today is Coffee Cult. And of course Coffee Cult is a really great cup of coffee. And again, I talk about it all the time. I love the coffee. I think it's fabulous. But beyond that, they support our industry through giving back all of the proceeds from every purchase that's made of Geezer's Grind coffee.

2:35 And so, you know, again, it's the coffee I drink every day. A lot of people in our industry now drinking it, drink it every day. It's a great blend. It's sort of really strong, but not too strong because it's a mixture of dark and medium. And again, the money goes to Roby backstage, which supports, you know, fallen individuals or individuals who need help in our industry. And so it's a good 'cause it's a great coffee. I do know that Roby, this isn't a competitive thing at all. One of the other largest moving light companies out there last week sent me, you know, a picture of them restocking their, you know, their their coffee machine at the office with with geezers, grind coffee. So get involved, you know, definitely go to coffeecult.com K's coffee with AK cult with ak.com, search for geezers grind.

3:38 I think if you buy 2 bags, you end up with free shipping and you'll get all kinds of discounts offered to you and stuff. So you know, yes, it's a little more expensive than your Folgers or Maxwell House, but it's really, really good coffee. Better than anything else I've tried. So give it a try, Support our industry and I appreciate you. Thanks. Hello, Emily. How are you? Hi. Doing well. How are you today? Jeez, I second that. Yeah, don't don't make me answer that. It's been, it's been a day, it's been a a month in a day.

4:20 You know, it's I've gone through some weird times over the past 12 months and some days are really, really fun. And some days you just wake up and you know, it's like what happened? Like, I feel like I got run over by 12 trucks today. And yeah, so today's been sort of one of those mornings, I think. Yeah. I've I've been feeling this thing called like, I'm calling it a work hangover where you wake up in the morning and you're like, did I send those emails last night? Like what did I advance last night? Like what what what what happened? Like did I do that on the drawing yet? Like it's like a work hangover. There's just so much going on. You forget in the morning what you've down to the last one. You're young.

5:02 Wait till you're in your 50s, because that's just every day. You know, That's every. Morning. It's not too far away. Yeah, every morning you're checking like, did I brush my teeth last night? Did I eat dinner? What did I have for dinner? I don't remember that. Did I feed the dog? Yesterday, I have those. I have those moments now. I was like, did I have granola for breakfast to did I eat breakfast today? It was only two hours ago. I don't know. Yeah, now it's it's it's wild, but. I can't wait. Yeah, I mean, well, you can wait, you know? Plus, it's like something different hurts every day. And it's, you know, all the old people stuff that you see when you're young you experience when you start getting older.

5:46 You're like, what is that like? I never had that before. Like, you know, a few days ago it was this thing on my nose. And I asked my girlfriend, I'm like, did I like walk into a wall or something? Like what happened? It looks like it's swollen and stuff. And she goes, no, that's just age. I'm like, get out of here. Jesus, Yeah. So yeah, there are some of those. That's just age things happening for sure. Yeah. But anyways, thank you for coming and doing this. I appreciate it. I know you're not a geezer and you're like a Gazette, to be honest. Another designer, I believe Sooner was the first female that I ever had on the podcast.

6:26 And, you know, we made a lot of fun of the fact that she wasn't old and she wasn't, you know, a crusty old, you know, white guy like what's usually on my podcast. I was joking with friends about wearing a bald cap and smoking a cigar and like a big theater, a mustache, that would. Have been fun? Yeah, you could have. Could have pretended to be a geezer. Geezed it up. Yeah, no, it's all good. It's just a name of a podcast. It has nothing to do with the people we have on and and so I appreciate you doing it. I love when we can get someone younger and less male is always fun. So you know, I mean I love to start pretty much every episode with with talking about really your foundation and and the beginning of it all.

7:11 And I know you haven't. How long has your career been in lighting so far? About 20 years. Really. Yeah. So you're older than I pegged you at like I. Had. I had you at a much younger, younger age than a 20 year career so far. I thought you'd say, well, jeez, it's coming up on 10, so. My tour, my my my touring career is over 10 years already. I was working in my house before that. I'm approaching the F words of age. Yeah, very rapidly. Like this summer. So oh wow. And I'm I'm approaching I'm I'm exiting the F words this summer. So, you know, like I'm, I'm hitting a hard one this summer, so that's going to be exciting.

7:59 So yeah, congratulations. We'll have to, you know, have a, have a virtual clink at some point and you know, 20 years apart, you know, it's funny too because my son is a, he's turning 20 this year. So, you know the numbers are always really easy when you can go. I'm 40 years older than you kid. You know, I wish it wasn't that easy, but but how did you get your start? Like I think you had a a more formal start than than a lot of the people that I get on the podcast who are, you know, very informal, where it's it's just literally by accident or in a pub, you know, having a beer and with mates in a pub.

8:40 And the guy next to him says, yeah, I'm a, I'm a tour manager, you know, Would you like a gig? And next thing you know, he's the production manager for ACDC, which I believe was a true story which was told on Geezers. But what? What was your foundation? At the very beginning was very similar. I started in theater in high school or middle school even. I had friends who were like, oh, we're going to rehearse, you know, try out for this thing. You want to come along? And I was like, OK, and then I end up making costumes. So middle school was making costumes, went into high school, kept making costumes, ended up going to the New York State Theater Institute my senior year. So I was interning full time at a union theater and I was still studying wardrobe and costuming.

9:27 And I realized that, you know, this this hobby I had, this fun thing I did is an actual career, and it's unionized and can become a thing. At that point, I had already locked in for FIT to study fashion design. So I studied fashion design for a year and then took a year off, transferred back into theater school, and yeah, a. Strange route to to lighting design for Demi Lovato, right? None of this makes sense so far, but go on please. Well, I I actually ended up having her her pants for her at a show the other month because the wardrobe girl didn't know how to sew. And I was like, I used to study fashion design and I used to do wardrobe like I was dress dressing Fashion Week by the age of 18.

10:12 So I was Hemming Demi's pants while she was wearing them, about 20 minutes before she hit the stage. Oh my God. That made you? That made you popular at that moment, I would think. You know. When you can solve a problem that nobody else can, yeah, that's. Cool. So it's it's come in, it's come in handy, that fashion background. And that's that's really how I started getting into, you know, costume in wardrobe and theater and went to college and I wanted to study audio because I played music. So I was like, oh, I wanted to do this audio thing and I was awful at audio, but I still was pursuing that and then graduated, still wanting to do audio. And I was working as a a local stagehand and kept getting put in lighting and just kind of, you know, cling to it at some point, you know. I accepted that, you know.

10:59 Just because you liked music and that seemed sensible. Yeah, it was a way to connect to the music. One thing that I enjoyed about what I do because I enjoyed the the lighting part of what I do, but I really love the music, so I try to approach lighting as an instrument. I was going to say, did you ever play an instrument? Were you ever a musician? Did you ever have a desire to be a musician? I knew that I didn't have a future in it, but I enjoyed doing it like I was. I was good enough like me. Yeah, I had like, I played. I played saxophone, guitar, bass, I sang. I was in a bunch of local bands, marching bands, all the bands, yeah. Cool.

11:41 Interesting. So you're trying to pursue audio, you're a stagehand, And then what happened? I I kept getting put in lighting and I was, I kept fighting it. Now I made friends with one of the roadies and he was like, Emily, you're good at lights. Just accept it. Like this is the thing you do, like this is what this is your thing. Lighting. And I was like, I guess it is, you know, the light bulb literally went off and yeah, started pursuing that. Oh, really? And it was that easy. It was very organic. Hey, why don't you just do this like you're pretty good at it, OK? Yeah, so and from there it's grown into, you know, drafting and doing scenic design and you know, video works.

12:27 I do a lot of content work and. So in the beginning it was just through like Ayatsi or something. You were just getting gigs like helping out, you know, as a stagehand or whatever, doing lighting and when. How did that become designed? Like how did, and even even programming, you know, was that just? Yeah, it's just an evolution of, yeah. Because, you know, being being local and meeting all these different roadies, they understand that you know what you're doing and eventually you start saying, I want to do what you do. And when they need someone on a crew, they keep trying to put your name and number in. I really lucked out and I got put on a job in New York babysitting a floor package for this guy.

13:11 Butch Allen, who had never heard of at the time, really had no idea what I was walking into. And you know, we're we're working. He's like, you get it, do you want a tour? And I was like, I will believe that when I see a plane ticket. And a week later I had a phone call from a vendor and I was on a tour. Really. Yeah, one of his tours. One of his tours. What band was it? Big Time Rush. Wow. Yeah. What a friggin. Great start that is, yeah. Which is, you know, right time, right place. Yeah he is. I am. I'm phenomenally just so blessed to have run into him and made that connection, made that friendship and. Yeah. He he's still one of my mentors, you know, I go to him when I have issues now. You know recording yesterday with Nick Whitehouse His name came up and we were talking about just being innovative and and I always saw Butch as incredibly innovative, like just not doing things the same way everybody else was doing them, you know.

14:09 And he had the band garbage one time and I think I had provided some lights to it through Martin or something. I don't even remember. But I went to see it and I think it was in maybe Santa Monica or something somewhere in LA and he had these these floor lights that were like up lighting the band and they were, I was like wow, you know what are those are those like you know I'm naming off different things that they might have been And he goes Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. And I said what are those? And he said they're Home Depot work lights. And they were, they were like literally Home Depot work lights with orange gels on them or something. And they just looked incredible.

15:01 And the fixture itself looked really incredible on the stage too. So, you know, it was just that kind of thing that I always loved about any designer, but Butch always did weird shit like that, you know? He always. Yeah, last year we I did, I I was on the new Kids on the Block tour last year and there's this one song where Donnie wanted just lasers. He was like, this is weird, like just follow me on this. He just wanted the lasers. So cat programmed this, you know, really awesome, kind of. It was very minimal lighting and they got to go into moments of lighting and the laser programming was amazing. And they had these flashlights and they were hunting flashlights. So we just had these big hunting flashlights. The guys were lighting each other with these hunting flashlights that you pick up. You know, that's.

15:42 So cool. Yeah. So it's it's a very interesting concept. Yeah, I like that. Kind of stuff. I, and you know Nick really likes that kind of stuff too. So that's I think what got us into talking about it. Like you know same recently I I had Rob Koenig on and you know the towers that he used on on Metallica last year or this year or whenever it's been. And you know again another very cool thing. I mean it was a cool way to deal with the the stadium tour concept where you could either have the big claw thing from U2 or you had to do something different, right? And he did something different. And I think I don't know if it was him or Dan Braun that came up with that stuff, but somehow between them they came up with those towers and and another really cool concept.

16:29 So yeah, I like that stuff. Let me ask you though, you know, the whole woman thing, you know, being a woman in lighting and or being a female in lighting a girl. At one point, I guess I you were a young woman and you know, I'm old school. So to me, like I always looked at it as women, got it easier because, you know, a production manager is not going to yell at a woman. Production manager is not going to yell at a woman. He's not going to beat your ass or hit you with a piece of pipe or something, whereas with with a man you know you're just going to get abused to hell physically too.

17:10 Right. And that and and that aspect, I guess we got it easier, but it was the only middle I was shooting. At everything else. Is hard. Oh man, it was. It was definitely not easier. I mean it it doors are opening up now. Women are are being accepted into these positions and roles more readily, which is amazing. I love seeing that. No, I mean, you know every time I'm at a show and either front of house or backstage or something, there's so many females now that are on cruise and I love that. Like, that's really cool. Like to me people are people and I don't, you know, I've that's why the whole diversity thing is different to me because I don't really notice that stuff very often, right.

17:51 Like, I wouldn't go, it's a female lighting designer. Oh my goodness. You know I would never. Say, is that allowed? Yeah, like. Yeah, I it's. And I I hate because the the woman topic for me is like it's it's cringy. Like I don't hate talking about it but I hate talking about it if if that makes sense, because I hate highlighting that. Yes. So about being a woman, yeah, it it needs to be talked about. But I hate that it does. You know it. No, I agree with you. I when I when I show up to work, I don't go. I'm a woman going to work. I'm, I'm AI go to work. Like when I go to work, I go to work. I do the gig. I just show up and I don't. How I look at it? Exactly.

18:32 Like, I don't, I don't make it a thing of like, well, I am a woman and I'm doing this and it's hard because, you know, I I do moderate a group on Facebook of women in the industry. And like, I am kind of one of the faces of women in the industry right now. And it's it's a weird, weird place for me to be because I don't want to highlight it, but I know it has to happen. Well, here's the thing though. I think it's an important role and and here's why. It's not to make employers, you know, more present or whatever necessarily. It's to make young girls understand that hey, this is an option for you. You can go on tour the world with a rock band and you know, be a lighting person or a sound person or a rigger or a whatever, right? Like this is a cool option for a career. And so I think it's more of an education of of that side of the crowd than you know, trying to force feed employers on the fact that hey, you need to hire more women, you know, which is sort of the the thing that I don't like, I don't like that when it comes to any of these battles like it you don't Force One side to to like the other side more.

19:37 You just trying. To and being hired. Being hired because I'm a woman is also kind of insulting because there's definitely been some jobs that have come up where like, we're looking for a female to do this. I'm like, are you looking at my qualifications or like what's between my legs? Because I want to get hired because I am the right person for this project. I want to get hired because you saw my work and you liked it. You're like, I want to get hired for the work I do, and not too much because that's the. Case hopefully. That's hopefully. You know, I have the same problem with my incredible good looks. You know, sometimes I get hired just because I'm beautiful. It's good to have a pretty face on the show. Someone's got to do it. That made me choke. It was so bad. But no, I completely, completely agree with you. Like, I I would hate that too.

20:22 Like, you know, I know there's a lot of people who who sort of struggle with, you know, is this happening to me because I'm beautiful or is this happening to me because I'm, I don't have that particular problem, but you know, I know. That there are like it's more the diversity higher issue, you know, like am I the diversity higher? Do they need more representation or are they hiring me because they want someone who knows what they're doing? Yeah, you know, I'm sure you're not a Motorsports fan, it, But you could have this conversation with Sooner because there's a real big push right now in Motorsports right now to to promote female drivers. And my son is a professional race car driver, He's a male and it drives him crazy because it's not based on talent, it's not based on hard work or effort.

21:09 It's not based on anything other than what's between your legs and they're not disadvantaged in motor sports. You know it. It's not like wrestling or football or any of those things where strength is, is, separates you like you know, obviously you. Need there's obvious differences. Yeah, but to create female driving classes or or, you know, different race programs or whatever, because you have female drivers over here and you have, there's no need to separate them. You never have. History hasn't there have been very good female drivers and so it's a little bit frustrating that they are you know and it hasn't worked by the way it it really hasn't been a very popular direction. But you know, I guess when I was asking you about the difficulties, it it had nothing to do with the diversity side of it, more like the reality of being abused by a bunch of nasty men or buses.

22:12 You know, I always think of, you know the busing situation. What's that like? You know and. It's actually weirder now, being on buses with more women. Like, it's weird for me, 'cause, I mean, I grew up, I I have three brothers. I was the girl with three brothers. So I was used to growing up with guys and like what that entails. Yeah, I was the opposite. The boy with three sisters. Yeah. So I was very, I went into touring very comfortably. And for me, like, there's, you know, there's going to be the old school guys of like, oh, a woman can't do this. But for the most part, I ended up getting all these Big Brothers. You know, if anything happened, then it was like, hey, are you having a problem? Is that guy giving you a problem even at the bar? Oh, there's this one time we were out at a bar in Oklahoma City and we were out. It was late and it was a bunch of us playing pool and like, just having a good time.

22:59 And this guy at the bar was talking to me and I was like, you know, just trying very nice to be like I'm here with my friends. And when I was, I went to leave and he followed me out and the guys saw that, that I was touring with. And so my touring brothers like followed behind and ended up like punching the guy to like in. Yeah. Like they ended up like helping me out of a very bad situation that I wasn't even trying to get into. Yeah. So it's it's been very nice to have brothers, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So you know, again, I like I was joking when I said, you know, that I always thought it might be easier for a woman. But in reality, like, again, just the fact that sometimes you might be treated more sensitively than a man would. So in other words, if you made a mistake, it wouldn't be Hey you stupid idiot back.

23:54 Oh, I still got that. Oh, really? Oh. Wow. Yeah. See, I'd have a hard time talking to a woman like that. You know I just would oh man, yeah. Oh yeah. If if any I got I've I've had some really insensitive crew chiefs who who talked to me like that for fixing things. You know like it. Yeah. So I mean I've, I've definitely dealt with all sorts of sides of that, that coin you know like Oh well that's that's that's what we do. Like don't don't worry about that. Like we have guys who take care of that, like, why would you climb? You know, that's that's what the guys are for. Yeah. And, you know, being reprimanded for trying to do my job. Yeah, so it sounds to me like you've managed to create a really healthy situation where you haven't forced people to treat you like the dainty woman on the tour or whatever. Like you just want to be one of the gang and and they've accepted you as that.

24:44 And part of that, it comes from being the technician first. You know, like a lot of the younger generation gets out of college with a design degree and they're like, I'm going to be a designer and it's like, yeah, but I mean it's nice to get your hands dirty and get that respect and understand what your technicians are going through. And yeah, I I common very frequently make this mistake where I talk about my past and I say I was just a tech on that tour. And it's unfair of me to say just because the techs do so much work and I can't do my job without them doing their job. And it's an important role and a lot of design students don't really understand that or appreciate that. And with me, with my crews, I don't ask them to do anything that I haven't done myself. And like if I want you to climb up in that thing and do that really awful, God awful thing, I've done that. Like I've done that 10 times.

25:31 I've done it in the rain like I've done it, you know, with an injured, you know, hands or whatever, you know, touring. Situation stuff, you know, I mean, it's it's like, you know, you've been willing to get your hands dirty. You've worked your ways up through the ranks, you know, and and yeah, so I mean that to me, when you earn your stripes and you don't just walk in and say I'm a designer, I have a fancy degree from a fancy school or whatever where, you know, people treat you differently and and they probably should right at that point. But no, that's all really cool. So, you know, just to stay on this woman in lighting thing for a minute, you you are sort of part of that group, right, The women in lighting group. And you know, again, I mean, I think it's, I think it's important for different reasons than I think what what a lot of people think it's important for.

26:24 You know, I don't think there's a need to force diversity right now from a woman's standpoint, because I don't know of anybody who wouldn't employ women to design A show or to direct a show or to run follow spots on a show or to whatever. Maybe once you get into the tech side of things, there's going to be some weirdness with some people who are, you know, a little like a a woman couldn't possibly, you know, climb a Truss and, you know, hang upside down and fix something or whatever, right? They're definitely going to be more organized about plugging things in, though, and taking directions. Yeah. That's true, huh? Yeah, that's true. So didn't you? You spoke at LDI this year, didn't you? I did, yeah.

27:08 And was that on this? Topic Well, I did 4 programming sessions and then I did one with women and lighting and for that it was, you know choose your own topic. And I I hate, you know, like I said, I hate talking about being a woman working. So I just talked about working. So I did it about like my my design process on things and kind of approach it from like I'm a teaching about my process and. So was it all men in the crowd or all women in the crowd, I should say, or. Or was it a mixed crowd? It was primarily women, but there were a few guys there. My old college tech director actually came and said it on it, so it's nice to see him. My brother was there, yeah. Yeah.

27:50 So yeah, that's cool. And you taught you were in the ACT entertainment thing, right? The yeah, you. I think you. Were talking contest Yeah, yes. How was that? That seemed like a really cool idea. Yeah, it's it's not the first time they've done it, 'cause we did it two years ago. They might have done it the year before, but I might not have judged it. But it's been an ongoing thing and I really love that they're trying to promote college kids learning the console, and it's really fun to see the what the kids are coming up with kids. Sorry, what the young students are coming up with and how they're approaching the rigs differently and kind of seeing that.

28:30 And it's great because we also get to offer feedback and whether it's about design things and we get to open up their their show file and like look around what's under the hood and see like how they built it and help kind of are there any super possible? Surprises like are Are the youth today coming up with some really innovative new ways of doing things or? It's not new, but it's it's interesting to see how they approach the same rig very differently 'cause they're all given the same lighting rig to see. So to see how 10 different people approach the same group of lights is always really kind of interesting. That's a. Cool way to do it, yeah. Yeah, or like the different focus positions they come up with and like how they use it. It's in their groupings. It's fun to see that creativity.

29:13 And what does winning mean? Do they get money? Do they get? What do they get? I forget what the prize is. I think their school gets one of the consoles or and they get biz keys or something like that. Yeah, like it's it's a pretty that's. A big prize? Yeah, but the big thing is that it also helps put them on the radar for, you know, designers and programmers who are looking for their next Gen. folks. You know, like those contests are always a great way for us to see, like you know who the new talent is. Like, if you need a lighting director, you know, who's who knows the console, that's cool. I get to see that, yeah. You also got nominated for the Parnelli's this year too, right?

29:55 Or. For a Parnelli A Parnelli. Lighting director. Lighting director. That's super cool. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Yeah, so when do you find out if you're the winner? At the dinner. I guess. I don't. I haven't heard anything. Yeah, I don't. Tell you in advance, They don't give you a nod or anything. Unless I didn't win and they've already told the winner and I'm sitting here getting my hopes up, who knows? But I don't know when you find out. I haven't heard anything yet. So. Do you know who you're up against? It's the guys from you 2, which it's, you know, hefty, hefty shoes to fill there. It's, I don't know any of the other LDS personally.

30:38 I've met some of them at LDI recently and at other conventions. Believe sticks. The LD for sticks is on there. I looked at the categories when I got nominated and I've been so busy I haven't really looked back, but it was a good group of folks that they're in great shows, so. People always say that awards are not meaningful or whatever until you get nominated for one. I mean, then it's really like, wow, people actually think I'm doing a good job. This is really cool. You know to be to be acknowledged is is always cool. You know by your. People, that's really the that's really the biggest part. Yeah, I don't, you know, it'd be nice to win it, but I mean just getting nominated is a great acknowledgement and it I am very appreciative of that.

31:19 Yeah, yeah. So I we were talking before we started recording and and you said that you're kind of taking a breath for for a minute here and figuring out your next steps and I think some of your bigger acts are are not not touring right away. Demi Lovato's recording this year, right? That's that's the word on the street that she's working on new albums. So it's a bunch of 1 offs until that kind of gets legs. Yeah. And so 22 or 23 though was a big year for you, right? Very busy, yeah, but lots of big artists on that one for main projects.

32:02 Like. What Brandy Carlisle, as a designer for Brandy Carlisle. So I was touring with her and she was opening for Pink for some stadium runs. So that was a fun, direct support run on that. Had you ever done stadium shows before? I had as a tech, so it was really kind of fun. I mean it's also it's just a show, but it's bigger. And then I I didn't have the design challenge of designing the full stadium rig because that's usually like the big things. I mean, you know, Baz and Silent House and Dan Norman, and they did a great job of like providing a great playground for me to work in. So it's just a matter of coming in and figuring out how to make that work for the show we were doing.

32:44 But even house lights going out in a in an audience that big, you know, a stadium audience like that had to be a real buzz. I mean, it's during the summer, so it's pretty light. So it's still light. It's a very gradual house. Lights out. It's a natural, Yeah. So that it didn't have that much weight. I'm looking for the big dream here and I ain't finding it. I know. No, I'm sorry. It just. Seems like, you know, the bigger things get, the more of a just a real like feeling you get from it. Like, whoa, this is so cool, but you're right. Like, there are definitely moments during the show though. Yeah. I mean, and it's and it's a harder position when you're the support act because you know everyone there isn't there to see your ACT. Yeah.

33:28 You know, like they might get drawn in or grab some parts of it or no other artist, but that's not like who they're there to sing along with. You know, that's not their shirt. They're there to buy. So I mean getting that audience connection is a bit harder at that level, that artist, I get it. But some of the some of the smaller solo shows that she does were it's a more intimate crowd of you know, really dedicated fans and that's when you get you know, the hairs that stand up on when you're running cues and. Yeah, who else? Idina Menzel I was working with Idina Menzel as the lighting programmer. She was doing a bunch of Pride Parade Festival appearance things. So Michael Berger designed those and I smashed some buttons and made it work. And yeah, I lit a booth for CES.

34:18 Bunch of corporate stuff. I'm sure if I sat and I looked at, like, my invoices, I'd be like, Oh yeah, that's that's another thing I worked on. It was just a very busy nonstop year. When I wasn't on one show, I was flying to the next one and actively working on drawings. Those typically juggling 2 to 3 projects at a time. Yeah, I was wondering, what do you, you know, because you went to school, you know, for all the drafting and all of that stuff. Like what? What do you enjoy doing more? Do you prefer being in a tour bus and smashing buttons like you said, or sitting at a drafting table or a computer and designing? I like that, whichever one I'm not currently doing, if you like.

35:03 Like when I'm up, when I'm on tour, I want to. I want to be working from home instead. You know, like working on drafting. Like right now I'm working on a rendering thing from home and I'm like like I hate sitting in my apt 40 hours a week, like drawing stuff. Like I want to be out, like working on a show and then I go work on a show. I'm like, I wish I could be drafting and I I guess it's, you know, it's it's whichever one. I'm not currently doing that. Makes perfect sense. You're a woman. But I I I want what I don't have. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I I do enjoy all of it for different reasons. So sometimes it's it's the I get, I tend to get stuck on the negative part of what I'm doing and not enjoying the thing I love sometimes. And I'm I'm constantly having to stop myself, remind myself, like stop it.

35:51 You love this, you know, like this is the thing you love. Stop worrying about that other thing that's worrying you like you asked for this. Think of some of the jobs that some of your friends do or your family or whatever, and and then start comparing notes again and then you'll go, this ain't so bad. You know, this is pretty good. Really. Like what I'm doing right. This moment is great. I love it. Yeah. But I mean, it's it's easy, you know, it's easy to to fall into that, like wanting more of something. And then you get it and then you go, why? Why did I want all this stuff? Why did I? Want it so? Much you know, and I remember when you went through it specifically more so than than most of the people I knew. And, you know, I got to see you once a week on the Zoom calls.

36:34 And so I remember you were in a real downer because you didn't have any work. And then I remember you coming out of COVID going, Oh my God, I got so much work. I'm ready to shoot myself. Like, this is insane. What's I need a break, you know? Yeah. And it really hasn't stopped. But that was two really severe extremes there, too, you know, That was just like from zero to 100 mph, like instantly. And then it never slowed down. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I don't know, like, I I What are some of your, what are some of your favorite moments?

37:15 Like, what are some of the really cool things that have happened in the past couple of years since COVID, since you came back out of resting and, you know, like what? What what are those, like, sort of pinch me things that keep you going. This is such a great gig. Yeah, I my first project when things opened up, first touring thing was with Max and Val. They're two dancers from Dancing with the Stars, and I toured with one of them before they were doing. They have these tours that they occasionally do, and they produce them and promote them themselves, and they needed a designer who's going to travel with it. And so they called me up. So it's me and the two guys from the show and two other dancers and a stage manager and a van. Really.

38:00 Yeah. And like, you know, there's a lot of ideas. And we just traveled together, just us. And it was very guerrilla theater, sort of because we just walked in with whatever they had available. Like, sorry, all of the wardrobe and props were in suitcases that we, you know, flew with. And it was just back to the basics. Yeah. And it just really reminded me of of why I do this and what it came from. And you know, even if you have 8 Park hands, you still have to make a show. And it was really, it's just great to get back in touch with that. Well, in the camaraderie, the fact that, you know, everyone is so close in such close quarters, and we're all like rolling up our sleeves and making a show happen, you know, that stuff's really fun. You know, it's like, yeah, you know, I've, I've been through similar situations where, you know, sometimes it's who you're doing it with as as much as what you're doing, right? That that makes a huge difference. So yeah.

38:54 And it was, it was also different because, you know, there was such access to the talent, 'cause now it's like, you know, touring with the artists I work with, I never see them. I never talk to them. I never really get that interaction. So it was just nice to be backwards. It was a very, you know, collaborative state of being. You know, like they could immediately tell you and give you feedback on a thing or just go like, hey, I have an idea and just having that sort of connection to the person I was working for. Yeah, I mean, sitting down at breakfast the next morning and go, what'd you like about last night? What'd you hate about last night? What? You know, I had this idea. What do you think? And and then all of a sudden, the next night is completely different than last night. And then you do it again the next morning at breakfast and you go, OK, like what?

39:39 What should we change from that one? I I mean, that's got to be a lot of fun. That's a whole. It's A and it. It's a connect. I really love that connection. When I get that with an artist, 'cause they don't get that very frequently and it's not very common. When I worked with Jared Leto, a lot of people kind of joke around about like him and, you know, don't take him seriously. But it was really amazing to work with him because he had such an artistic background and had such a cinematic background that he had conversations about what he wanted the show to look like constantly and it was a constantly evolving process. So it's really nice to just have that connection with with the artist who knows what they want or doesn't know, like knows what they don't want and have that conversation constantly and just have that process. It just it's such a gift to be able to do that with an artist. I always wonder with designers, if you prefer having collaboration with the artist, like having an artist who really loves to get involved and you know, I'll go all the way back to the old days.

40:43 I'm Canadian. So Triumph, you know, an old Canadian rock band who, the drummer Gilmore was always incredibly actively involved in the show design and the lasers. And you know, like he basically sat with the production manager and the design team and said, you know, what are we doing, let's do this, let's do this. And he was very much a part of the collaborative team. And so I always like to understand whether you prefer that or you prefer an artist who just says I don't care, make it look good, you know? I mean it's it's fun to have that blank canvas of just make it look dope, you know, I like to it's it's fun because like you are your own boss. But at the same time when they if they give feedback, do they really have a language that they're giving it in? Like do they know how to have that conversation Or when they say I want it brighter, yeah, I want this darker, I want, I want that bigger.

41:44 And they don't have the right words to elaborate on what that is unless you try it out of them, if they even know. And then you try a thing and they're like, no. So it's nice to have an artist who has that immediate input before you have to go through all the guesswork and you know, has that conversation and has developed a language. Cause at that point they've developed a language and like learned different top different like words and vocabulary to be able to express themselves and they come in with images and. Dangerous, though. Once they learn a tiny little bit, now they're suddenly smarter than you and they're telling you how to design. The show, well, it it's nice to have that collaboration, 'cause I'm here for them, 'cause the artist is gonna have an opinion regardless.

42:28 So it's nice if it's an an informed opinion and one that they can speak about well, instead of I don't like it, we don't. You obviously don't know how to do this job. You need to go, you know, and if you try to defend something, they can actually understand what's going on and understand why it happened. Instead. If you don't know how to do your job, we're firing you. That's true. That makes sense. So what do you think your superpower is? Funny faces? No, you're pretty. Good at that. You're pretty good. At. That I think my superpower is just working with what I have.

43:14 Yeah. Yeah, like I I'm not that needy designer who's like I know the these substitutions are outrageous. And like this will never work. You know, like I'll sometimes I'll look at the substitutions and go like, sucks. You know, like how can I make it not suck or suck less. Yeah, you just make it work. Yeah, no, I mean that's that's actually incredible because we all know the other people and you know, if I don't have the XYZ dash A9, my show will not be the same, you know? Don't give. Me the A 8.5 I need the A nine, you know or my show just cannot exist and.

43:55 And it also, it also lends more impact to when I do, you know, stand my ground and say no, like this is a thing I need because like, Oh well, she never does that. She must really need this. Yeah, yeah. That definitely helps when I actually need a thing. Well, I think being vendor friendly is is not a bad thing to like actually being able to to talk to the vendor and saying hey, I realize you don't have these, you know, I'm totally willing to take these ones instead. But then could you maybe fix this thing over here for me, you know, and it becomes a negotiation or a trade off or or you know it gives you a little bit of leverage because you've been so kind on all the substitutions or whatever, right? And it also it also as a as a designer it gives you a new place to try to approach the show from. Yeah.

44:39 Because it might not be the light that you had or wanted or had in mind, but it could offer you solutions to problems that you didn't realize you know, or give you more options to play with. Yeah, yeah, you know we we touched a a couple of minutes ago on you know just and I was making fun of it a little bit but how you went from like really being down because you had no work and and to you know really being down because you were so floored with work and but I paid attention and I pay attention to all my friends on this topic. What does that sound? Is that on your side or is that Sarah's mic on?

45:21 I think that Sarah. 'S Mike's on and she's listening to a video. Yeah, I could hear a. Video Hear it in the background. It was Sarah, the lovely Sarah watching cartoons while she's listening to our podcast. Diligent work. Yeah, he's got to do it. So I was oh, it just got so much quieter. It's so nice what a professional podcast we're doing now. Isn't this amazing? It's so done. But, you know, I was paying attention and I pay attention a lot on, on, especially on social media. Like I, you know, I I feel like, you know, I need to watch out for people for some reason. I don't know why, but, you know, you became a part of our, our fairly regular Zoom group on the Happy Hour, the weekly happy hours that we were doing during COVID. Yeah, You know, I, I, I do.

46:13 I actually do. I was going to say I do and I don't because you know, COVID was such a terrible time and stuff. But there were a lot of good things about COVID. You know, I think, I think the reset for our industry has proven to be incredible for most people. You know, there are certainly some businesses that have not fared as well, but I think. There's some infrastructure that's hurting right now. Oh, absolutely. And I think there are some people who are hurting. I I'm sure you know a bunch of them and I know a bunch of them. And that's kind of where I'm going with this is, you know, I noticed you were one of the few really brave people, I think who was willing to talk about it. You know what what the impact of COVID has taken, what the toll has taken on me and and and then again when when we all went back to work really rapidly and we were at 100 miles an hour, what that did to you. And you talked about a lot on social media and you know to me the whole mental health thing.

47:10 Like I know that people are trying to set up organizations and and different ways of helping people and that's great. But I think they're also has to be just friend reach outs, you know, like pay attention, pay attention when someone's hurting or when someone has an issue or when someone you know may need a phone call or may need a hug or may need a visit or whatever it is, right. So yeah, you know, I know you think a lot about this stuff and I know mental health is important to you and and is a big deal. So tell me your thoughts. So many thoughts. I I think it's very important that it is this topic that is openly spoken about because you know, I I've dealt with it for years myself, with depression and you know, abuse of addictions and it was very stigmatized for a long time.

48:05 So I mean even in high school when you know that they wanted me to go to therapy and take medication, I thought that it meant that something was wrong with me because society said something's wrong with me. And I I've fought getting help for a long time. So it's I do love that we can talk about it openly and that it should be talked about openly. Well, we know. What happens when it isn't, You know, I mean, we know. I'm sure you know people. I I know a lot of people that should be here today and aren't. And because either they felt like they had nobody to talk to or they literally had nobody to talk to about their problems or their problems were just so dark that they just didn't want to talk to anyone about it. You know, they were embarrassed or or hiding something or whatever it was and it's just not good that that people feel like that that's their best choice. And maybe at that moment it is like maybe things are flying around so bad and you're so caught up in all of this that you know, you just don't know any way out. Like that is the only way out, right? It doesn't help out with social media. You see everyone at their best.

49:17 You know, you see everyone on vacation and have, like, nobody posts a picture of them sad crying or ugly crying or depressed without a thing. Nobody posts, you know, like, oh, I didn't get the job. You know, like, unless they're looking for attention or, you know, in case it is a, you know, cry for help of some sort. But typically you see people like, Oh my God, hashtag, you know, blessed life, you know, bottomless mimosas, us on vacation. Like This Is Us at the beach. You know, like, whatever happens to be, like the good life they're having. Yeah. And it, you know, it's it's hard not to look at that and say I am less than that, I'm not and I don't have that. What's wrong with me? Like I'm having such a hard time. Why does everyone else have it easier? And it's it's hard. It's hard.

49:59 So I really try to be honest with my posts and and post more openly about the bad days and you know, try to normalize that. Like, you know, success isn't easy and success isn't happy, and success isn't what people make it look like. You know or you know, whatever your definition of success is, you know, and everything worthwhile takes work and it, you know, involves giving up things. So it's just trying to find your happy place where what's what's more important to you. And for me, my career has always kind of been that priority. Like, even above my mental health, I'm guilty, absolutely 100%, of prioritizing my work almost every. Human is. Almost every human is. You know, we're well, you know, because as long as you're busy, you're also not thinking about those things for the most part, right?

50:46 So I think it it's a distraction too. Well, even the work stuff can get overwhelming because I find myself juggling multiple projects. And I was on a show a couple weeks ago, and I I was like, I'm 2 emails away from like a nervous breakdown. You know, because, like, you're sitting locked in on one project and you're just watching all the emails come in on like three other projects. And your mind is just spinning of like, where am I going to find the time to do all of this? Yeah. And you know, getting caught in that and then you know not being able to perform your best because you're there in those emails and all those projects and. But are you ever envious of people who who, Because I fall into the same thing, by the way, an awful lot. Like, I'm just like, I got to deal with everything and I've got to fix everything and I've got to take care of all of these things.

51:34 And I'm constantly just this bottleneck of 8 billion things that are coming at me, right? And I know so many people who are just like, whatever, I'll get to that later. Whatever. Whatever. You know that's not. A big Is that when you talk to them one-on-one? Or is that like, is that the face that they're putting on to try to calm themselves down, or are they honestly just like, OK with the world blowing up around them? Yeah. Are they so used to the real life? The second one, I get the feeling that it's just they're able to shut everything off and just not give a shit, you know? And I just am not able to do that. I I don't have that gene in me, you know? So I'm constantly. And as you get older, it turns from this sort of healthy stress to like a real unhealthy stress and worry about everything, you know?

52:23 I worry more today than I ever have in my life and and it's it's, I believe it's an age thing, you know, because it's not like I have more problems than I ever have in my life. So yeah, I mean I just, I'm somewhat envious of people who just, you know, they go off and they, you know, roll up a joint or something and smoke it and they're like, I don't give a shit. I'll get to that stuff tomorrow, you know, or the next day. I'm going to take the week off, you know, and. I do. I do find myself having to take mental health days where I just go, like, you know what, this isn't happening today. Like, I'm not. I'm not getting all this accomplished. And that's OK. Like, I there's there's times where I do have to stop down and say these deadlines aren't all going to get met because I need.

53:05 I can't do it all. I'm just going to sit and watch TV for an hour and play dumb games on my phone and like, just not deal with it And a part of its avoidance. And the other part of it is just like taking that personal time to walk away and not focus on it. Yeah, finding whatever that thing is for you, you know? Why is it so prevalent in our industry? Like, why? Why is it, you know, things as as simple as, like, abuse? You know, drug abuse or whatever, substance abuse? Or is it the lifestyle, the fact that you have a lot of downtime when you're driving along a road in a bus and you get to think about a lot of things and you start going down these, these spirals or whatever, Like, what do you think? You know, 'cause it just seems like we get a lot more problems than than maybe some other occupations. There's definitely, it's because it's not a corporate job. There's no, you know, suit and tie. It's like just the structure of the job itself is much looser than most businesses are.

54:21 And I joke around that nobody gets into this because they are a popular kid. You know, like it's a bunch of us weirdos that didn't quite have a place to fit in. And like, you know, a lot of us are trying to avoid crime. Yeah, that's kind of true, isn't? It. And like we're trying to avoid growing up, you know, so like a lot of a lot of adults, you know, that have families at home love not having to be home and be dad or be mom and not having to do all that stuff and just be able to be a kid. So it's it's a lot of avoidance I I think. And there's there's people who are out there who genuinely love what they do and love being parents. But I mean there is definitely a heavy leaning to like Oh my God, I don't have to be home to take out the garbage. I don't have to fix all this stuff. Like, I don't have to do the kids laundry. I don't have to take them to soccer practice. I'm just going to like go to the bar with my guys on the, you know, because that's what there is to do. And you know, bars are common in every city. You know, like there's liquor that's provided by production. In most cases it's it's a very, very, you know, carefree world as far as that goes, like, and you work so hard at work that you need to, you know, blow off steam. Yeah, well, I I mentioned to you in the intro, there's a a guy in the industry who he's he's, I believe he's a video tech, touring video tech.

55:36 And I don't know him, but I'm Facebook friends with him. But I I've never met him. I've never had a conversation with him. And there's two different things that have happened with this, this gentleman, I'm guessing he's probably in his early 50s just by looking at pictures of him and stuff. So one time last year I was just laying around with my girlfriend and I said, Oh my God, you got to see this. She said what? And I said this guy is basically killing himself on social media. And so he, he wrote a few long posts in a row that just ended with, you know, it's time. You know I'm sorry to for all of the problems I've caused and I'm I'm you know going to leave you all now and and and then just disappeared for like 24 hours and of course all of his friends, family, followers whatever they were were commenting saying does anyone know where he is. Does anyone know his address or his location right now Can anyone track his phone.

56:39 You know, we got to get people there. Let's find him. And you know, fortunately he pulled himself out of the tailspin and and saved himself. But you know, one thing that I would say is is there had to be signs earlier than that. And I didn't go back and read every post that he made for the weeks prior to that, but they're obviously had to be signs and somebody wasn't listening to those signs that were being thrown out there or didn't care. And so then secondly, he same guy started posting yesterday that he had suddenly become homeless and all he had was 2 bags of stuff, clothes, whatever belongings and his car which he was living in at that point and driving.

57:30 And now it had broken down and he was on the side of a road somewhere in in Minnesota, which of course right now I believe is probably minus lots, like it's probably really cold there right now. Not a good place to be homeless in a car and it was bizarre to me because the people who responded and here's me reading all these posts and really caring and getting emotionally involved in this situation. Right. And I don't even know the guy and but he's from our industry and I want to help him. You know that that was just the instant thoughts that came to my brain was he's in our industry. I need to help this guy.

58:10 And so you know, I I was preparing to reach out to a good friend of mine in Minnesota who owns a bunch of businesses and is quite successful and is is also very religious and and would immediately jump to help someone. So I was going to get the guy to send me his PIN so I knew his exact location. I was going to send it to my friend and say send one of your employees over, pick him up, find him a place to sleep for a few days, get his car fixed and I'll owe you a favor and and he would have done it. That was going to happen quickly, right? But the thing that floored me was just the the responses that he was getting were very nice and kind, but none of them were very realistic. Like it was all, you know Google homeless shelters and and try and find one near you and drive over there and and you can stay there while you it's it's OK.

59:07 You know it's not demeaning or anything to to get a reset in a homeless shelter. You know you'll be fine. You'll have food and and a warm place to sleep and he's like you might not be getting this. My car is broken down. If I leave my car I freeze to death. It's my only warmth right now and I have less than $20 to my name and so you know that's just not a good option right now and and you know he wasn't even asking for people to come and take care of him or help him or anything. He was just being real and telling the world his situation. There was never a single good, good suggestion made to him and so somebody must have reached out in Messenger or something directly to him because he said, you know, a very kind soul has has helped me out and fortunately I I don't have to freeze over the next few days and I'll have a a place to stay.

59:59 And so it was a happy ending, but it just floored me. You know that. That someone on social media can't get their network to rally a little more urgently than that, you know? And and on social media, people are quick to offer, you know, like advice. You know, even if it's not really that advice that people are looking for. A lot of that just comes to. Yeah. And it's it's hard too because I mean it sounds like they kind of waited until the last minute to ask for help like a lot of us do because it's hard to admit, like until you hit rock bottom of some sort, like I need help, whether it's with addiction or mental or you know, finances, it's it's hard to admit defeat until it's too late.

1:00:42 So it's, it's, you know, it's about learning yourself and learning how to reach out earlier and say like or understand and like see certain triggering things and saying like, look, I'm starting to feel a certain way. And I know typically when this happens, it just gets worse. Like, I need to, you know, like start exercising more, or I need to start drinking less or I need to, you know, put more social events in my calendar and be around people and just little things like that. Yeah, 'cause it's not just about things. That are very helpful when you're in a tailspin. Yeah, And it 'cause it, it's hard. It's hard to reach out and call someone like one-on-one, be like I'm, I'm not at my best. I don't know what to do, especially because the people you're reaching out to, Yeah, at that point, if you're at that rock bottom, the people you're reaching out to aren't trained to deal with those sorts of things and will probably say the wrong thing and not know how to help.

1:01:33 So it's about figuring out, you know, when in your cycle where you are. And like if you're if you're starting to slip somewhere and say like just being around more people will help without having to say, like, I'm having a hard time just just exposing yourself to the people in your life more frequently kind of helps open up and relieve that. And it makes it easier to just bring up conversations of like, you know, I'm just, I'm having a hard time with such and such. Like this relationship is really giving me a hard time. Like, I think I'm drinking too much, you know? Like, my drinking has been a problem for me lately. And it's been something that I'm seeing, like, I'm not like, you know, pass out drunk, like black out drunk, but I'm seeing that certain habits I'm starting to repeat, I'm like, all right, I need to stop drinking for a bit, 'cause, like, I've done this before and I've seen where this goes.

1:02:18 Like, I don't want it to start affecting my work or my personal life and talking with other friends like they're doing the same thing. And like, having that open conversation of like, yeah, I haven't been drinking for the past three months either, 'cause like it was just I was drinking too much. Yeah, you know what happens with me? And I noticed this recently and I I really stopped it. Was it at the end of a like I did? I I used to be a heavy drinker when I was younger, but now at the age that I'm at now, like a really heavy night of drinking might be 3 glasses of wine, right? Like, usually it's one glass of wine. I'm done. But what was happening is, if I had a stressful day, immediately 5:00 hits or whatever, and I'm opening a bottle of wine and pouring a glass of wine, and I probably only have one glass, I might have two if it's been a really bad day, but the next day is a bad day, boom. I open a well, I reopen the same bottle of wine and and then I find, OK, it's Wednesday and I've been drinking wine five days in a row.

1:03:24 It's not a good thing, right? Like, so I've and I don't, I don't set rules where it's like, OK, no wine on weeknights or whatever. I think some people do have to set rigid rules like that. But for me, it's just like, you know, I don't need wine to make me feel better after a stressful day. Because when you start creating those associations like that, you're. Basically just saying it's. OK to do those things right. So, so yeah. And for me, like it it it's hard for me to stop at that one glass and I'm like, oh, I feel better now. It's like a second glass will also. Feel more better. Yeah, I want to keep feeling better until it's like 2:00 AM and I'm sitting there and like, you know, sitting in Vector Works, pushing the same geometry around for like the past hour ago. Like, I'm so tired, I'm exhausted and my brain just doesn't want to do anything.

1:04:10 And I've wasted my whole evening to red wine. Yeah, because there's there's been those nights and we've all, we've all been there in some way or another. But I mean, I I've definitely found myself there. Where I'm like, why did I, why did I have that first class? Because that first class did it. You know, The thing is, I unfortunately or fortunately, I read a lot now, especially when it comes to, you know, remarkably things like longevity. You know, as you get into your 50s, you start thinking, OK, you know, I used to think 50 was really old when I was young, right? Like I used to go, oh God, fifty. That person's ancient. They're going to die any minute. Right. But then when you're in your 50s, you're going, OK, hang on a SEC.

1:04:51 You know, like, I ain't ready to go yet. I got a lot of stuff to do still. And so I pay a lot of attention to health and longevity and diet and exercise and all of the really boring but really important things. And you know, unfortunately for all of us, spoiler alert, alcohol isn't very good. And you know, alcohol there's. But it's so enjoyable. That's the hard part. I know, and it makes other people much more enjoyable too. You know, it makes them tolerable and it solves so many problems, but the problem is like, you know, it's just not very good. It does a lot of bad things to really important parts of your your biology and you know it's gotten down to a point now where you know the average male I think can do 4 drinks a week and the average female is roughly half of that two drinks in a week. I'm so screwed.

1:05:51 And anything they think that, you know, the experts that I've read on are like, you know, that's minimal damage. That's like damage that isn't going to kill you. It's not really going to make a big difference, but you're still doing damage. Any amount of alcohol does damage, but that's tolerable. Anything above that, you're actually, you know, you're knocking years off your life. You're literally, you know, every drink above 2 a week is a couple of days off the end of your life or something, right? Like, I'm sorry to be such a downer, but again, I read. What I mean I I part part of my thing is trying to find alternatives to that. So my one of my recent purchases is a sauna blanket. And it is so great because you just sit there and you sweat out all the toxins and stuff anyway and it's but you can't do anything for 1/2 an hour.

1:06:42 You have to sit there in this blanket for half an hour to 45 minutes and not do anything else, 'cause you can't do anything else And it it's really great. The hard part is finding that chunk of time to do that, but it's great to just sit there like. Have you ever tried a cold? Plunge. I've tried the ice bath thing. I yeah, it is. It's. Hard. Just do the cold shower, like what you know every day. One of the things I do is is you know, you do your hot shower and get all clean and stuff and then just turn it all the way to cold and do a couple of minutes at the end of your shower just like that. And that has so much benefit.

1:07:23 It's crazy. It's it's, you know, again, you can deny all of the science on it, but there's a ton of science on that right now. It's not just a new trend, you know, that all the rich people are doing or the Hollywood people or whatever. It's a very good thing. My house in Canada, I I kept threatening to do it last year, but I didn't this year. I'm going to do it so about probably, I don't know, 150 yards out the back of my house, there's a little pond and it's fed by a stream coming down from the mountain, from the glacier. So it's freaking cold, right? And my son is a lunatic, so he'll swim in there, but I won't even stick my foot in it, right? But my nephew does cold plunges in that pond, and I think I'm going to start doing it this summer. So I'm going to go walk down there, do a cold plunge for like two or three minutes, and then shiver my way back up to the house and jump in the hot tub.

1:08:19 Oh. Man, I would get so sick. Really. How that? Yeah. How that would be like Emily. Dies of pneumonia after cold plunging. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't think. I don't think cold plunging gives you pneumonia. I'm just, I I have. I just have no immune system. Yeah, really. You get sick real easy. So easy. Oh my God, yeah. Well, I can fix that too. Next podcast? I'll give you a whole. Long I'll give you a whole long talk on on how to keep yourself healthier. But you know, really a lot of it starts with just making sure that you have the right nutrition, the right vitamins and minerals, really. And, you know, a lot of it starts with D3.

1:09:00 Like this country and the world are D3 deficient. And that's why, you know, COVID hit some people a lot harder than other people. It was one of the really big reasons. I mean, there were other reasons. Obesity and you know, drug abuse or just weakened, weakened systems, right. But but D3 was a big one. And you know, zinc is another one that people are usually deficient on and there's all kinds of other things too. But I. Take so many vitamins, it's. Do you? So do I. Oh yeah, like a traveling pharmacy. When I go on the road, it's. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, as long as you're taking the right stuff and and you know, magnesium is another good one. I mean, there's there's all the stuff that, you know, really helps You just survive some of this stuff, some of the stresses that we put on our body and it also helps offset the alcohol and other bad things that we do.

1:09:53 Yeah, I mean the work stress, I mean between the like the cortisol levels and you know, the the lack of sleep and stuff like that. And even like with sleep, Yeah. When you're sleeping is when your brain has a chance to flush out all of the, the, the blood that's been pumped through there because there are no veins or arteries in there. Yeah. It's like weird little things like that, you know, Like certain things we deprive ourselves of when we're working 90 hours a week. Are you traveling and even his traveling? Yeah. Yeah. I mean just not having that regular cycle and forget the name of that cycle, but just you know. I wear this. It's called a oral ring. Yeah, I've seen that. The other one that people do is the whoop strap or whatever. But you know, you don't realize how screwed up your sleep is until you start monitoring it and going, Jesus Christ, I'm supposed to do what, 7 hours?

1:10:42 You know, in a row. And you know I pay so much more attention to that stuff and to you know, I didn't know what HRV was in the past, you know, and and now I pay attention to my HRV balance every day. You know, what am I doing? And it's amazing when you do positive things, how it impacts some of those things right away, you start seeing positive response back from it. So yeah, I mean, admittedly, I've gone over the edge on a lot of this stuff. Like I've. Definitely. I'm paying way too much, paying too much notice to all of it. But you know, my dad died at 52. I've already outlived my dad of of a heart attack. I've already outlived them and I pay attention to my heart and all of those other things.

1:11:27 So but yeah, mental health is is the big one that I think is much darker and and maybe harder to spot. Like you can spot when somebody's getting unhealthy, but you can't always spot when their mental health is impacted. And I think as as good humans we need to pay attention. We got a you know, even if you don't know the person, but you happen to be their friend on Facebook, you know you're connected on Facebook. Do something, you know, like I I feel like I want to help this guy. You know, I may actually still connect him to my friend. And who knows, he could have a whole start of a new career by working for one of my buddies companies or something and get out of the touring business because it's obviously not really healthy for him right now.

1:12:11 So, you know, but anything else you want to talk about? Or have we pretty much exhausted ourselves? I think that's a if you've covered a pretty good. We did, yeah. We went all the way from your favorite topic, women in lighting, to mental. Health to mental well-being and and those are the important things to to hit on. I mean, you know, just being able to talk about, you know, inclusiveness and open mindedness and setting examples for next generations and yeah, you know, keeping an eye on mental health. God, like mental health, you know, abuse, you know, like a substance abuse and like housing issues or like three hot topics for me. Yeah, like it just there's so many issues, you know, just deep down in this country that you know can be fixed in time if we we put the right efforts in.

1:13:02 Yeah. Well, and in our industry, I think education is a big one. You know, like just like the one of the things that I think COVID really exposed was how unprepared especially roadies were, You know, they because they were 1090 nines. But they didn't have like a they didn't necessarily have their own business and they weren't prepared. They didn't have a reserve of cash. You know, they didn't even have a place to live. A lot of them, like a lot of them, didn't even have a proper apartment to live in because. I've done that. Jumping from gig to gig to gig, right and. I've definitely had the sections of my life where things are in a storage unit and just I'll do it the next year. I was going to ask you by the way, what, what did your what did your parents say when you said, by the way, I'm going to go on the road and tour with rock bands? Oh, I mean, my dad's a nuclear engineer with like 8000 master's degrees, only like sticks.

1:14:01 It's. Yeah. And yeah, he's like retired military. So he when you said you're. Going into theater. Yeah, he was like, but you're so smart. Why are you doing this? And so it was that battle for years even like when I got my degree, like I sat down and like, all right, we're going to go over 2 two phase versus three phase power. And we're going to sit here and we're going to balance these racks. And like we're going to look at, you know, this, this rigging plot here. Like how do we create a bridle like the Pythagorean theorem that use like is it a dynamic workload or a static working load like going through them like saying all right, so you're mixing colors. Is it additive or is it subtractive color mixing Like the the different science to what I do that you don't always think it's the science, but there's so much science in what we do in physics. And trying to explain that to him and showing him vector works and the stuff I build in Cinema 4D and he sees that I use a lot more of my brain.

1:14:55 Yeah, he's happier about it. But they also probably worry about you, you know, going out, or at least did when you were younger. You know, going out on the road with a bunch of crazy men in a tour bus and going to strange places around the world and stuff. I don't think they're really that worried about me in that concern, No. Because I mean, like, I've always kind of been able to hold my own, Yeah, growing up with brothers, like dealing with a group of guys isn't really. Yeah, yeah. It's more about like travelling to other parts of the world, like, oh, is it safe there? Like, are you like a kidnap? You can have all your stuff robbed? Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. So my dad's usually travelled to those places already and has a hot tip.

1:15:36 Yeah, that's cool. Before I let you go, who would you like me to get on? Geezers who I haven't had on yet? I could even be a. Woman had a lot of that's what I'm trying to I'm trying to think of of other young ladies like myself who could use. Well, there's a not so young lady coming on in a couple of weeks. She's a definite Gazette. Marsha Stern is. Coming. Love her? Yes. So that'll. Be a choice. Yeah, that'll be fun. I've been friends with Marsha for 100 years and we've I've threatened to do it forever. So she's pretty excited to come on and talk and you know she can talk. So I might have to reserve a little extra time for that one. Yeah, Lauren King, formerly Lauren Sigo. She got married.

1:16:22 She is a younger LD designer person, but she does a lot of extracurricular like outdoorsy stuff and has a lot of interesting stories. She's like, you know, one of those Cliff jumping, parachute jumping, skiing crazy. I like she, yeah, I love watching, like her life on social media. I don't know where she has the energy, but she's she'd be great. Well, Sarah just scribbled down her name so she may reach out to you for a a connect or something to to put us together and we'll reach out to her and see if the credentials fit. You know, it's not like, I mean, all we're looking for for is people who have great stories and who have something to say.

1:17:07 You know, like, I don't care whether you want to sit and talk about, you know, health all day or or you want to talk about lights all day or you want to talk about. Have you had Dan Hadley on 'cause I think Dan and Tess would be a great, like, dual appearance. That'd be awesome to have the two of them on together. No, I. Don't. I would watch that for sure. My goodness, OK? Who is Dan Hadley? Dan Hadley, he's LD for the Foo Fighters and many other relates his big. Yeah, John Wiseman actually threatened to connect us too at one point. But I don't know, Dan. Yeah, I have no relationship with him or anything. So yeah, that would be a great one. He's a delightful human being, yeah.

1:17:47 Yeah, no. Wiseman told me the same thing. And I don't know, I guess I just never followed up on it or something. But we will now. Excellent. Yeah, you too should know. Yes, you guys should know each other. Well, thank you so much Emily. I'm so happy we finally did this. And it's nice to see your smiling face and you know, keep me updated what you're up to or I'll follow you on social media. I'm sure I'll see. Something but sounds. Good. Yeah, Let me know. All right. Excellent. Thank you so much for having me. All right, cool. Have a good one. You too. Thanks. Bye.