Jan. 10, 2024

#215 - George Masek on 40 years in lighting, 35 years in automated lights

Show Notes
Transcript

George's career began in 1982 with his own "side hussle" while still going to school in his new hometown of Dallas Texas. Eventually, through a lot of hard work and chance meetings, George was able to land a gig at his only target, Varilite. He managed to turn that into a highly successful 22 year run with many roles and accomplishments, before moving in 2012 to ACT where he became the lead guy for Claypaky. When Claypaky and ACT separated, George continued on with CP where he remains today! And of course, there's a nice sprinkling of racing talk as well! I do apologize, George struggled with internet problems and had several drops during our recording, but all worked out great. Thanks to our sponsors and .

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Thank you for joining me today
on Geases of Gear Episode #215.

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Today's podcast is brought to
you by Stratum Productions.

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Stratum understands that
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Well, hey there, how are you?
And I appreciate you joining me

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again today on Geese of Gear
episode #215.

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And yeah, I mean these things
are flying along now with this

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producer thing.
I'm kind of getting used to

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this.
I dig it.

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Sarah is booking guests, great
guests.

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The one today is another one,
the one last week.

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So by the time you're hearing
this, hopefully you will have

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already heard the John Wiseman
episode, which I believe is 213.

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John never disappoints.
Some great stories, some great

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life discussions, Love talking
to the guy.

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One of my favorite people.
And so yeah, if you haven't

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already heard it, please go back
and listen to John Wiseman

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episode 213 I believe.
And it's a fun one.

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It's great.
Also, of course, I really

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appreciate all our sponsors, so
it was really cool that we got

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to do.
I believe.

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Again, I'm making up these
numbers, but I think they're

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right.
Episode 214 was one for and with

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our sponsors, and that was a lot
of fun to do that.

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First of all, most of them have
been friends of mine for a long

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time.
But beyond that just hearing

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sort of their views on the
business and and where the

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business was in 2013, where it's
going in 2014, some ideas, some

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some sort of big bold
predictions.

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And so yeah, that was that was
interesting and fun and I can't

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wait to do that again next year
with hopefully some new sponsors

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added in.
And by the way, if you are a

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company, rental company,
manufacturer, brand supplier,

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support company, I don't care
what you are, if you're

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listening to this and you'd like
to sponsor Geese's of gear, it's

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probably less money than you
would expect.

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And we have a couple of spots
still open for 2024 and we are

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punting one of our sponsors from
2023.

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So you will notice one missing
in the future, but besides that,

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you know we're very appreciative
of sponsors.

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We love all of you.
We appreciate you very much and

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we look forward to continuing to
do this podcast for a long, long

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time and for that we need
sponsorship.

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So we appreciate it.
Thank you.

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And listen to 2:14 if you
haven't heard it yet.

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And so today, I'm really excited
about this one because although

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we both exist in the same
industry for a very long time

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and we would know who each other
is at a trade show, we've never

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really had a relationship.
I think it's partially because

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he always came from a competitor
or a different part of the

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industry than me.
In some cases.

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I'm not a touring professional.
I'm not a touring lighting guy,

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never have been.
And so he's always been heavily

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involved in the touring side of
things.

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Worked most of his career at
Verilite.

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I think over 20 years at
Verilite and from a technician

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to an account exec to a VP to
all kinds of different roles at

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Verilite, which he'll talk about
today.

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But and then moved on to first
ACT, ACT lighting at the time

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where he was responsible for
automated lighting and

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specifically Clay Paki.
And then when Clay Paki decided

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to open their own office in in
North America and split off from

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ACT, he followed along with Clay
Paki.

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And so of course I am talking
about George Masek.

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And so yeah, I'm looking forward
to this should be fun, should be

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interesting, won't be boring.
I promise you that.

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And so here you go, George.
Hi.

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How back are you?
I'm well, thank you.

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Well, as we roll into 2024.
Yes, we do, actually.

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We sort of flopped into 2024
with my audio problems on my

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side.
And then you're you had a

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problem too, didn't you?
You couldn't hear me and you

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sounded like a robot on my side.
So a little bit of rebooting

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computers and we're all back up
and running.

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Through the magic.
Of the hard reset.

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It's got me this far, not IT.
That's my excuse.

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Anyways.
So yeah, 2024.

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Jesus, you know that just means
the math is getting way easier

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for me to do because I was born
in a four year and and it's a

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big fat round Number this year.
So not that exciting.

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It's not really that exciting
2024, but.

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I'm chasing chasing you there.
Yeah, I like even numbered

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years, cuz I was born in an even
numbered years.

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So I I prefer even number years
for absolutely no reason at all.

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Yeah, I've never really thought
of it that way.

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I just prefer smaller numbers,
that's all.

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I don't care if they're even or
odd, I just want them down a

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little bit.
You know, they're a bit, they're

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climbing up pretty quickly here.
And you know, sadly for I think,

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I think you're probably a bit
younger than me, but not much.

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You know, based on just looking
at your bio and stuff, you

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either started when you were 12
or or you're near my age.

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But probably both, actually.
Yeah, but yeah, I mean, you

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know, geezers of gear.
Like, it was easy when everybody

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was older than me that I had on
the podcast.

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But now, more often than not,
they're younger than me and I'm

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like, what the hell?
We've shifted back to where I'm

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the geezer of gear, not them,
but.

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It's the band names and artists
is where I start to see it.

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Yeah, I'll be speaking when I
started touring.

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And they just look at you like
who?

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OK.
Yeah, right.

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Oh so you know I was, I went to
I have a place up in Western

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Canada near the ski areas and a
friend came up with me one time

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to go do some skiing or
snowboarding.

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He was snowboarding and I know
maybe he was skiing, he was

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skiing.
So we went to the local rental

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shop to get him some skis and
boots, cuz he didn't fit into

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any of my extra stuff.
And we go in there and you know

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it's a young girl, she's
probably 2122 years old or

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something cute young.
I don't remember if she was

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Canadian or Australian or what.
She was probably Canadian and

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and she asked his name and he
said yeah, Eddie Van Halen and

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she goes, OK Eddie Van and he
goes.

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Did you get that?
Did you get that?

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And she goes, yeah, Eddie Van
Halen.

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And he goes, you don't know me.
And she goes, It's just what you

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said.
You said your name is Eddie Van.

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Halen he goes.
You've never heard of me.

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And she goes, no, no, just now
and he looks at me and he goes

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see how old we are.
And he's right.

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Yeah, yeah.
And I'm fine with it in a lot of

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ways.
I mean, honestly, I was joking

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with my wife.
It's easier for me to get into a

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lot of the shows that I like to
see.

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Some of my favorite artists
don't sell as many tickets

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anymore, so it's a whole lot
easier to get into those shows

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and that's less competition, so.
Yeah, fortunately you're not in

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a big rush to go out to Taylor
Swift or something, right?

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So.
Well, I always am, just because

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of the phenomena that it is, you
know, I mean I think that's

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worth right.
I mean that's, you know, I think

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that's that kind of sort of
Beatlesque moment in our

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industry is always interesting
to me because it's, you know, it

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it's this generation's
Beatlemania.

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And so that interests me for
sure.

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Probably cheaper and easier
though to go to a a Chiefs game

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than it is to go to a Taylor
Swift concert and you can still

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see her.
Just as much I somehow I I was

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afraid that was going to sneak
and I was trying to avoid going

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there.
No.

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But like you know Brian Setzer.
I'm a massive rockabilly fan.

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Brian Setzer coming to Dallas
you know got awesome seat no

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trouble at all.
And I thought, you know back in

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1982 when these guys were
playing the Dallas Convention

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Center was a little bit tougher
while waiting in line and all

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that sort of stuff we used to do
back in the day.

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Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's funny.

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I was talking to somebody about
this the other day.

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And again, these kids these
days, they wouldn't understand.

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But you know, I remember like
when Supertramp was coming to

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Calgary and I was probably 13 or
14 years old and went and stood

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in line.
It was at the time it was, I

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think it was called Bass Tickets
in Canada anyways and they were

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in Sears stores.
So you had to go to Sears stand

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in line at like 8:00 in the
morning or whatever.

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And there was maybe eight people
in front of you in line, but the

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if there was only eight people
in front of you in line, chances

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are you were going to be in the
first five rows or something,

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right?
Absolutely.

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So it was exciting.
And then as the axe got a little

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bit bigger and bigger and
bigger, you know that eight,

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first five or eight rows became
like 15 rows, 20 rows, because

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people were literally starting
to camp overnight outside the

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Sears store and fight you if you
tried to take their spot or

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whatever.
But you know, as as miserable as

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that was, that whole tactile
thing was just kind of cool,

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right?
It was cool that you you went

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and stood in line and you knew
how many people were going to be

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in front of you at the show
based on how many people were in

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front of you in line, right.
And maybe you timed that by 8

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Sears stores in town, you know,
so that's there's 8 Sears

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stores, 10 people in line in
front of me.

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In each one, that's 11 * 8.
OK, cool.

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00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,000
You know, I'm in the 1st 100
people that's going to get

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00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,200
tickets to this thing you didn't
know about, you know, holds and

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00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,880
you know all of those types of
things promoter holds.

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00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,360
And.
Record company holds and all of

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00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,880
that kind of stuff, but.
Yeah, I I remember it well.

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And and honestly, I think it was
part of the impetus.

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I I remember going through that
same process and you know, it

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00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,280
was in at our Seekers.
It was like next to the tool

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00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,360
department, right.
So, you know, you'd be standing

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00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,400
there next to some guy that was
just trying to buy a handful of

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00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,680
Craftsman screwdrivers, Like,
what do you kids doing?

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00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,400
But you're right, it was a
communal thing, wasn't it?

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00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,080
You know, you'd like.
I remember going with some of my

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00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,840
friends and we were waiting for
Texas Jam tickets.

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00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,720
That was the big thing.
And you know, we got up at like

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00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,600
6:00 in the morning, did the
whole thing.

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00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,800
And at some point in the middle
of that, I'm like, this is

221
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,120
ridiculous.
I I I like bands.

222
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,680
I like.
I like music.

223
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,080
This is stupid.
This is a really dumb way to get

224
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,520
into shows.
Yeah, there's got to be a better

225
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,680
way than.
So Ticketmaster's your fault, is

226
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:02,440
what you're saying.
You were the one who complained

227
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,400
loud enough and Ticketmaster
became.

228
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,920
And then suddenly.
Suddenly those $9 tickets to see

229
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,200
whatever you just said, Monster
Jam or whatever, are now like

230
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:17,400
$900 or something, you know?
Yeah, because of what do they

231
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,960
call.
It well, it's it's funny 'cause

232
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,280
you, I'm sure we're both of
that.

233
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,960
No, I was just gonna say.
Dynamic pricing, both part of

234
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,720
that certain.
Name because it because of

235
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,680
dynamic pricing.
I was just gonna say yeah, yeah,

236
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,680
dynamic.
Yeah, we're both part of that

237
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:35,520
age.
You know I saw I don't know it

238
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,320
had to be 10 or 15 years ago
now.

239
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,840
But I saw Jon Bon Jovi one time
on Howard Stern talking about

240
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,200
this kind of stuff and and
Howard said, you know, with

241
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,160
Spotify and all these things
that are happening now,

242
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,520
downloading and and streaming
and stuff, it's got to be

243
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:53,920
better.
And he goes, well, you know,

244
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,160
let's take away the revenue side
of it be, which is completely

245
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,360
screwed up.
But if you look at again that

246
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,000
tactile thing like where he used
to go into Tower Records or

247
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,600
whatever and spend an entire
Saturday there thumbing through

248
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,600
albums and opening them and
looking at the inside sleeve if

249
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,360
you could, if they allowed you
to do that.

250
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,800
And then as time went on, they
had headphone listening stations

251
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,400
and you could actually hear some
of the other songs on the

252
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,080
record.
Whereas when you and I were

253
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,760
young, you couldn't.
I mean, you just bought the

254
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,880
record based on the one song
you'd heard on the radio and you

255
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,600
hope that there was at least a
couple other good songs on it,

256
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,280
right?
But yeah, but you know, he he

257
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,360
was just talking about how, like
my kids will never experience

258
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,360
that where they're in the record
stores all day, you know, trying

259
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,800
to figure out which album to
spend their, you know, this

260
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,200
week's allowance on.
I I think it's just different.

261
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,560
You know, I was having a
conversation with a colleague

262
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:57,640
and YouTube is so appealing to
me because I can go back and see

263
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,640
that the drop of a hat shows
that I was involved with or that

264
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,200
I want to check up on or that
somebody else did.

265
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,560
And there's this massive
encyclopedia of images and

266
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,480
sounds that are available to us.
And I'm sure you remember this,

267
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,200
especially as a kid growing up
in Cleveland, man, WMS Radio in

268
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,440
Cleveland, which is, you know, I
think widely regarded as one of

269
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,000
the best stations in the US
time.

270
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,120
That was the lifeline to
everything.

271
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,520
There was no MTV, there was no
nothing and MMS and the DJs on

272
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:36,000
MMS, they were our gateway to
the music and and you know, good

273
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,920
and bad.
But I mean they controlled the

274
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,720
pipeline that we had or it was
that or Saturday Night Live or

275
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,880
you know, Fridays of the show in
the States.

276
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,840
That was it, man.
The downside of that, though, is

277
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,600
sort of like the media today.
Those radio stations and

278
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,320
especially programmers, program
directors, whatever they were

279
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,440
called, and promotions people
from the record companies, they

280
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,640
were controlling what actually
made it to your ears.

281
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,960
And they were controlling it
with exactly what you'd think

282
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,040
they were money.
And so my, my ex-wife spent her

283
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,200
entire career in the in the
record business and she

284
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,960
explained how this all worked to
me.

285
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,800
And I was like, you've got to be
shitting me.

286
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,200
It's that straightforward.
Like, basically a promoter goes

287
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,440
into a record station or a radio
station.

288
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,920
Sorry.
And goes to the program director

289
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,360
and says, you know, I'd like,
you know, whatever Taylor Swift

290
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,800
to be on heavy rotation this
week.

291
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,240
Heavy rotation.
Yeah.

292
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,720
And.
And they would say, well, you

293
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,760
know, so and so wants, I don't
know, name other pop artist B,

294
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,560
right.
Wants so and so to be in heavy

295
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,000
rotation and they want them to
be #1 this week.

296
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:01,440
And they're giving me, you know,
flights and tickets in the first

297
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,640
five rows to a show in LA.
You know, and plus leather tour

298
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,040
jackets.
Oh well, I'll give you $1000

299
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,680
cash plus leather tour jackets,
plus, you know, four seats at a

300
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,640
show in LA or whatever.
And I mean they they literally

301
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:21,119
just bid their way into the top
positions and.

302
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,560
This.
Yeah, Yeah, there was some of

303
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,319
that.
But I think Cleveland was

304
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,720
different.
Maybe I could be wrong, but I

305
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,400
feel like Cleveland was
different in that MMS had so

306
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,080
many they had coffee break
concerts that they did.

307
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,200
They they ran some amazing Bruce
Springsteen shows that they had

308
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,320
from the Cleveland Agora.
There was a lot of live and I

309
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,280
think that's what initially got
me inspired.

310
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:46,120
There was so much live on the
radio.

311
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,880
Sure, we had stations that did
the, you know, the heavy

312
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,240
rotation.
You got your top 20 and that's

313
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,880
what you got.
But because MMS kind of skewed

314
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,600
so hard in One Direction, I
mean, when you hear about the

315
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,960
quintessential crazy radio DJs,
they had like six of them.

316
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:07,040
And it saved us because, you
know, we got Bowie, we got the

317
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:13,640
Ramones, we got bang.
And that, you know, weren't in

318
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,640
heavy rotation.
And it forced the other stations

319
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,440
in town to to join in because
people were calling up, saying,

320
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,320
man, I want to hear the Ramones,
I want to hear the Sex Pistols,

321
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,160
you know, And they're like, oh
God, what do we do now?

322
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,600
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
I, you know, again, it it just

323
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,560
like the part that kind of
shocked me.

324
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,480
Yeah, the part that shocked me
was just how blatant it was.

325
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,440
You know, again between these
programmer programming directors

326
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,600
and and and the promotions
people or whatever on the record

327
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,240
company side, you know, just
buying their way up the charts

328
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:56,680
and and then there was this
thing called Sound Scan and that

329
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,720
was an interesting one as well
because that was all fake, you

330
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,240
know.
So Sound Scan was supposed to

331
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,800
tell you actual sales
information on record sales

332
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,600
nationwide.
But I mean, it was so easy to

333
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:17,680
manipulate and was heavily
manipulated, like to 3040%

334
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,160
sometimes manipulation.
And so, yeah, I mean, again, it

335
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,120
wasn't down to just the artist
and there's so many great

336
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,520
stories of when a little DJ in,
you know, Waco, TX or something

337
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,840
loved a certain band and started
playing them and next thing you

338
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,880
know they were the biggest band
in the country or whatever.

339
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,240
It's like, you know, the Triumph
story where I believe it was

340
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,720
actually a place in Texas that
broke Triumph in the US.

341
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,120
It was just some DJ and some DJ
in Texas just went, hey, here's

342
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,360
this crazy band out of Canada,
listen to this.

343
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,680
And it took off and then it kind
of spread like a disease

344
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,720
throughout the US.
And next thing you know this

345
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,920
this band out of Canada that was
only successful in Canada was

346
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,960
suddenly big in the US.
April Wine probably another good

347
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,280
example.
April Wine was a band that you

348
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,880
know the triumph April wine,
Cleveland.

349
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:16,760
I mean, if if you look back in
the history, Cleveland Rush had

350
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,080
a Rush had a tremendous
relationship with MMS.

351
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,800
And you know, that's what I
liked about it because it's like

352
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,880
these guys aren't just dorks,
you know, playing songs.

353
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,600
I mean they were interviewing
the bands they'd come to town

354
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,160
and they would do these
interviews with the bands and it

355
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,680
was fascinating, you know and
and unlike today where you know

356
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,280
by the time the artists get to
your town, you've seen every

357
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,720
promotion, you've seen every
video, you've seen all this

358
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,000
stuff.
It's almost like an overload.

359
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,240
That was it.
Your your pipeline to the

360
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,560
artists was through your FM
radio and you know especially in

361
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,720
a place like Cleveland that was
about it.

362
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,000
You, they weren't wasn't going
to be any meet and greets or

363
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,120
anything like that.
If the the Times Square or down

364
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,680
in, you know Tower records in
LA, we didn't have any of that.

365
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,200
Yeah.
No, you're you're exactly right.

366
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,760
And I mean it's it's it's so
different now obviously I don't

367
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,440
even know how things work
anymore.

368
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,160
You know it's it's like I I
don't even know.

369
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:20,320
You know I had Doc McGee on on
the podcast one time and I was

370
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,000
asking Doc these questions you
know and and oh funny story.

371
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,920
So one of the things that that I
I just created a hypothetical I

372
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,480
said you know Doc like the
industry has obviously changed a

373
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,040
lot in the years you've been in
it and this was relatively

374
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,120
recent.
This was probably might have

375
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:43,000
been during COVID, it might have
been in 2020 and I said let's

376
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:50,240
say my son is a 17/16/18 year
old musician today and it's he's

377
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,440
super passionate about it.
It's all he wants to do in life.

378
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,960
He wants to quit school and just
dedicate his entire life to

379
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,080
music.
What do I tell him?

380
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,320
And he goes, wow, let me ask
you, I said what he goes, is he

381
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,000
any good?
And I said, well, yeah, let's

382
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,400
let's assume he's really good
and and very, very passionate.

383
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,640
And he goes, well, I had to ask
and I said why and he said

384
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,920
because everybody's a bull rider
until somebody opens the gate.

385
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,080
And I love that line.
That's such a cool line.

386
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,040
And he's right.
Like everybody thinks they can

387
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,400
do it until it involves some
really hard work, you know, and

388
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,840
you got to sleep on friends
couches and share a tiny little

389
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:36,240
one room apartment with four
stinky males, you know, who who

390
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,760
are drunk every day and stoned
on all kinds of crazy drugs and

391
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,920
stuff.
And I mean, it all sounds very

392
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,520
romantic, but it isn't.
You know, I've slept in school

393
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,440
buses on top of our equipment.
You know, when I was in bands in

394
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,000
Canada, you know, I mean we had
we'd buy these yellow school

395
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,240
buses and kind of cut them in
half where you had seats in the

396
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,240
front for the band and the crew,
which was generally one guy.

397
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,520
And then and then gears in the
back because we were carrying

398
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,320
our our full PA and all of our
back line gear and stuff.

399
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,120
And so, you know, you couldn't
sleep on these seats.

400
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,040
It was impossible.
So I'd go lay on top of like

401
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,080
JBLW bins in the back of the the
bus or whatever, as dangerous as

402
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,040
that was.
But you know that that's where I

403
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,760
would sleep.
I'd roll up a jacket for a

404
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,240
pillow and sleep on JBLW bins.
Ugly.

405
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,480
And I think, I think one of the
things that's interesting about

406
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,840
now, and I don't want to be that
guy saying, you know, it's all

407
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,680
different for the kids these
days because it, you know, it's

408
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,200
awesome for them, right?
They don't have any of our

409
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,360
history.
We don't have any of their

410
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,360
experiences.
What they're going through is

411
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:45,720
awesome.
And you know, however they're

412
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,360
doing it is it's great for them.
But you know, one of the things

413
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,960
that I think most of us from my
era did is we came up through

414
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,960
the clubs and we came up through
local clubs and and local gigs.

415
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,600
And you know, we made stupid
mistakes and awesome decisions

416
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,720
and learned a lot, fell down a
lot.

417
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:10,080
And there was, there was that on
ramp to success either as a

418
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:14,600
musician or as a technician.
There was an on ramp that didn't

419
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,200
involve you just dropping off
the side of a building into

420
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,360
Madison Square Garden having to
be awesome.

421
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,600
You know and you can see bands
where you just watching me like

422
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,120
these guys have never they've
never played club dates.

423
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,280
They've never been through that.
You know pain and suffering and

424
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,400
success and angst and Christ,
the Chili Peppers used to come

425
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,280
to Dallas like out four times a
year and play you know a dumpy

426
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,520
club down in deep element
Fleetwood to be out there with

427
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,760
you know wearing nothing but a
sock during the encore.

428
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,760
And I mean that's where that's
where the, you know that's the

429
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,920
Crucible that the band as you
know that's the Crucible where

430
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,000
the band is formed and and
that's where you learn the gags

431
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,280
and the stuff that works and the
timing and all those things that

432
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,600
when you get on Arena Stage like
Doc said, man, you know that's

433
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,760
the gates open big there, man.
You think you got like a Bon

434
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,680
Jovi, man.
I mean all the dates that Bon

435
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,760
Jovi was playing.
You hear the stories from those

436
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,640
guys.
I mean, they were on this.

437
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,160
They opened for 38 Special when
when they were the opening act

438
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,360
for 38 Special when slippery
when went broke.

439
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:24,360
That's.
Crazy.

440
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,640
And and it was, it was awful for
38, like, I mean like kids were

441
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,840
leaving after Bon Jovi finished.
They're out selling 38 like 2 to

442
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,320
one in merchandise.
It was just like they could not

443
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,320
get them off that tour quick
enough, right.

444
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,680
But you know, they had opened
for rat.

445
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,760
They had opened for everybody
and you know that's where they

446
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,200
became Bon Jovi.
And and I assume that's where

447
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,200
their crew people became Bon
Jovi crew people you know and

448
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,760
and learned all the things that
we all need to know.

449
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,960
And sure, when you're going
through it, you're like, man, I

450
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,280
can't wait to get out of these
clubs, but you're also learning

451
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,560
a lot.
Yeah, well, you know, I guess if

452
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,520
you, if you look at the Crew
side of things, the same could

453
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,040
be said today where you have a
lot of younger people that are

454
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,560
just jumping straight into
stadium tours.

455
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,280
You know, I mean, they're
literally like their first gig

456
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,000
is at a stadium or or their
first gig is with the Red Hot

457
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,120
Chili Peppers or whatever, you
know?

458
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:30,760
And I can't imagine what it's
like being either a crew chief

459
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,880
or or an LD or a production
manager or, you know, whatever,

460
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,440
and being in a situation where
you have a lot of people like

461
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,360
that and yet the industry needs
them badly.

462
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,640
And when something like COVID
happens, the problem is that all

463
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,480
got speed up really quickly to
where, you know, you didn't go

464
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,800
from the back of the shop to the
front of the shop to, you know,

465
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,760
to prepping a tour, to actually
going out and being, you know,

466
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,240
the 5th or 6th lighting guy on
the lighting crew on a tour to

467
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,880
the 5th to the 4th to the 3rd to
eventually making your way up to

468
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,400
crew chief.
They had to speed that whole

469
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,280
thing up a whole bunch because
there there was such a a crew

470
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,080
shortage, right?
Absolutely.

471
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,920
And I, you know, my first tour,
I was 24 and I was the youngest

472
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,480
guy on that crew by probably 10
years.

473
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,840
And, you know, I was definitely
the pup on the tour.

474
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,520
But the cool thing was I was
surrounded by, you know, people

475
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,800
that were just awesomely helpful
legends in the industry, you

476
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,600
know, all took me into their
wing couple, pulled me aside a

477
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,000
couple times.
So look, I'm not going to say

478
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,000
this in front of anybody else,
but, you know, here's something

479
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,680
you should do or you know, maybe
try doing it this way or.

480
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,040
And you know, I I got to kind of
open that gate to the Bullring

481
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,520
slowly rather than just having
it swing wide open, you know,

482
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,400
with an audience of 20,000.
But I've been a stagehand for so

483
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,200
long.
You know, one of the things I

484
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,600
tell students, man, I it was 5
days from when I got hired to by

485
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,560
Vera Light.
It was 5 days of training before

486
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,320
my first tour.
It was supposed to be a 10 day

487
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,480
class.
You know, everything you need to

488
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,320
know about Vera lights in 10
days and it was supposed to be a

489
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,360
10 day class.
And after five days that said,

490
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:19,480
you know what, we think you got
it.

491
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,560
We're sending you down to a gig
and if they like you, you get to

492
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,560
stay.
That's going to be your

493
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,720
audition.
Oh, OK And I was terrified.

494
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,680
You know, I was still trying to
figure out which one was the VL

495
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,120
Two and which one was the VL
Four.

496
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,680
And I walked up to my operator
and I said, look, man, I said I

497
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,040
I fixing all this stuff, it's
going to be a challenge for me.

498
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,440
I've, I've had five days of
training.

499
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,240
But I said I've watched your
loadout.

500
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,200
I can pull 45 minutes off your
loadout tomorrow night.

501
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480
I said I I promise you I can cut
45 minutes off.

502
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,640
You're out tomorrow.
And he just looked at me and he

503
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,600
said let's do this.
And you know that that, you

504
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,240
know, 10 years of being a stage
hand that really saved me

505
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,880
because it it gave me all those
skills to fall back on while I

506
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,600
needed to, you know, buck up my
my technical skills, my my my

507
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,000
automated lighting skills, which
was new to all of us, you know,

508
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,600
at that time.
Yeah.

509
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,200
So I mean we're we're talking
about all these old days and

510
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,680
stuff and and I know you got
started pretty early you know

511
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840
thank you.
You sent me a lot of information

512
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,200
on on your background and bio
and stuff and you know I've I

513
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,800
will admit that you and I never
really had a relationship which

514
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,080
is bizarre like you know I I
think you know everyone in the

515
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,800
industry.
I know everyone in the industry

516
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,200
but we don't really we haven't
really done anything together

517
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:43,560
and so but you know I didn't
know much about you and you know

518
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,760
I I've known of your career
since at least since ACT and

519
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,800
maybe a little bit of Vera light
before that and have always

520
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,600
known of you.
But I I've just never really

521
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,800
known you, but looking at your
bio, so I didn't know this, but

522
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,160
you actually had a small rental
company that you started in in

523
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:06,040
the early 80s, right?
Yeah, I, yeah, you know, grew up

524
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,280
in Cleveland, you know, fell in
love with rock'n'roll in

525
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,840
Cleveland and had some really
awesome connections there, which

526
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,720
were super important.
And just to, you know, things

527
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,400
that you know when you're a kid
in the Midwest and you you can

528
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,360
probably relate to being in
Canada, maybe growing up in

529
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,440
Canada, if that was your past as
a kid in the Midwest, you're

530
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,120
just trying to figure out how
you're going to get to do

531
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,160
anything right?
Especially if you grew up in

532
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,480
Cleveland in the 70s.
You know, our river caught fire

533
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,880
twice.
I mean, let's be honest, but you

534
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,320
know, nonetheless, you're just
looking for an in and you know,

535
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,000
here I am, I think I was in
fifth grade.

536
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,040
KISS was the biggest band in the
world at that time.

537
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,200
And my buddy was this kid in in
my class named Robert Glickman.

538
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,720
And we were talking about bands.
And somebody was talking about

539
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,880
KISS and they said, well, you
want to meet him?

540
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,320
And I said we meet KISS.
Oh, I don't, I don't really like

541
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,920
KISS, but he's like, oh, my
dad's their manager, excuse me.

542
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,440
And Carl Glickman was Kiss's
manager.

543
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,200
This was a kid I was in fifth
grade with.

544
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,720
And what was interesting to me
about it was it gave me that

545
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,280
that hope of a local connection
of someone that I knew that was

546
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,360
connected, like, so I that was
my first, like, stair step of

547
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,600
like, OK, wow, some dude from
Cleveland, his dad can, you

548
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,080
know, be kiss his manager.
OK, that's something.

549
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Even though I wasn't into him, I
didn't.

550
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,160
And here's what's funny.
I had no interest.

551
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,840
I had no interest.
The thing that Robert had or his

552
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,760
dad had that I was interested in
was his dad had a Rolls Royce

553
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,280
and we would go to the movies in
his dad's Rolls Royce.

554
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,360
And that was, I was far more
interesting to me than the kids.

555
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,560
The kids in my class had seen
them without their makeup.

556
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,160
You know, they would come to the
house without their makeup.

557
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,680
I remember a story I think of
Gene having like, you know,

558
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,880
those big 70s stomping shoes and
had kid goldfish in them.

559
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,240
And one of the kids came back
and said it wasn't the makeup as

560
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,000
much as was.
Gene had these shoes with

561
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:10,920
goldfish in them.
It was the 70s but that and and

562
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,240
that and then the MMS
connection.

563
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,200
Jules Belkin lived on my street.
Jules was a a big time Cleveland

564
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,760
promoter and if you if you
remember from that era, the

565
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,920
promoter was a huge the local
promoter was a big deal.

566
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,320
There wasn't this Live Nation,
there wasn't this, it was it was

567
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,200
the local promoters and.
I remember in Calgary, the guy's

568
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,480
name was Bear.
He had a company called

569
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,160
Brimstone Productions and his
name was Bear.

570
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,440
Big guy, big burly looking bear
looking guy.

571
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,520
And I worked security for him
for a little while, which was

572
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,720
really funny because I was like,
you know, 120 lbs, weakling,

573
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,600
long hair, you know, like I I
couldn't have secured anything,

574
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,600
you know, nothing.
Like I I I wasn't providing any

575
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,480
layer of security at that point.
I did that gig as well.

576
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,120
You know, Jules lived on my
street.

577
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,400
I think it's over 80 now.
Through some mutual context.

578
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,800
We stayed in touch and and you
know, just meeting the actual

579
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Jules Belkin.
And I told him, I said, man, you

580
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,880
got to remember I said I saw
your name.

581
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,800
Everybody in Cleveland saw your
name on top of The Who, on top

582
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,960
of Rush, on top of Van Halen.
It was always Jules Belkin.

583
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,960
Belkin Productions presents.
I said you were as big a rock

584
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,000
star to me as as those guys.
I mean, your your name was above

585
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,360
theirs on the bill.
And he kind of laughed and like

586
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,080
the most humble and awesome guy.
But again, you know, getting to

587
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,960
meet these people, it gave me a
sense of hope.

588
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,680
And so, you know, I rock off to
Dallas and I I, you know, it's a

589
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,040
Union City.
I'm 15.

590
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,560
So that's going to be a bit of a
challenge.

591
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,840
How do you get gigs?
Well, you build your own lights

592
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,400
and you start working for bands.
You know, it's like you just did

593
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,840
it and it, you know, honestly it
it paid my way through college

594
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,560
really.
I mean it was it was a great.

595
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:12,120
That's that's super cool.
So your your company though they

596
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:13,719
did.
So you moved to Dallas?

597
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,719
Yeah, I moved to Dallas.
My dad was talk about no

598
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,719
connections.
My dad was general counsel for a

599
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,920
chemical company, oil company,
and they moved the operations to

600
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,320
Dallas because everybody was
trying to escape Cleveland in

601
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,400
1980.
And they did.

602
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,000
And so he said we're moving to
Dallas and and I was bummed at

603
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,560
1st.
And then, you know, I'm sure

604
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,600
like you remember we used to
read the line liner notes for

605
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,280
albums.
That was your connection to the

606
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:42,600
artist.
You'd sit there and listen to

607
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,920
the record and you would read
the album back to front.

608
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,480
And the weird dynamic of that
was you became aware of all

609
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,159
these peripheral people, sound
engineers, lighting engineers,

610
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:59,240
production companies.
And Jackson Browne thanked Shoko

611
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:03,120
on his liner notes for running
on empty.

612
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,280
And so when I was told we were
moving to Dallas, at first I was

613
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:08,920
like, really the place of the TV
show.

614
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,520
OK, JRI, guess.
All right.

615
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,520
And then I remembered this
company show Co was in Dallas.

616
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,520
And I thought, huh, this Dallas
thing might be OK.

617
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,280
And so next thing you know, I'm
in Dallas, I'm at my high

618
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,200
school, probably second or third
day of the high school, kid

619
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,480
walks by me in a Genesis Tour
Jacket.

620
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,800
He's like, he's a I'm a
sophomore, he's a freshman.

621
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:39,360
He did a Genesis Tour Jacket
from the Mama to and introduced

622
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,240
myself named Colin Clark.
I said, hey man, it's a really

623
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:44,640
nice jacket.
I said that's like a like a band

624
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,520
Tour jacket.
He's like, oh, yeah, well, my

625
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,920
dad's one of the owners of
Shoko.

626
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,720
Jesus, really.
He.

627
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,800
Went to the I guess.
Man.

628
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,720
And yeah, on and on.
But so again, the the, the, the

629
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:05,400
theme was thank the God sent to
me was there were people that I

630
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,440
could interact with that helped
me realize there could maybe be

631
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,240
a stair step to what I want to
do.

632
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,440
You see what I'm saying?
You know, I wasn't there were,

633
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,240
there were people that showed me
that, that people in my orb

634
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,800
could do this.
And it was interesting because

635
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,840
Colin had zero interest in live
production and Jim Clark was his

636
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,760
dad, one of the owners original
show Co Vera Light.

637
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,320
And Colin had zero interest.
He loved, you know, seeing the

638
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,480
shows, but I don't think he had
any interest in production.

639
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,800
But I got to meet his dad, you
know, And again, it's those

640
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,880
stair steps that we all have
that give you the shot to, to do

641
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,560
what you want to do.
Yeah, yeah.

642
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,480
So we still haven't got to your
lighting company?

643
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,520
Well, you know, like I said, the
interesting thing was I I

644
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,160
realized that there was going to
be two ways to get gigs.

645
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,560
I was going to start.
You know I was really too young

646
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,840
to to to get professional work
because at that point I'm

647
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,400
161516.
But I figured if I started

648
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,520
building likes I could start
working for local bands and at

649
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:21,400
at that time Dallas and still
does has a pretty big high

650
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,600
society circuit with debutante
balls and things like that.

651
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,160
And because I was in the private
boys school in Dallas, St.

652
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,120
Mark's, I was kind of in that
circuit.

653
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,120
And so here I was this kid and I
had these lights and you know

654
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,960
these moms would hire me to do
debutante balls and and like I

655
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,520
had this whole sub industry that
I was working in and the only

656
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,480
way I could be there is if I had
my own gear.

657
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,280
So I, you know I built a lot of
my own stuff.

658
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,200
It was not UL listed then you
know, started buying stuff as I

659
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,240
could afford it, but it was my
entree into getting jobs, you

660
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:08,000
know, It had the theory I I
just, I just felt drawn to it.

661
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:14,360
I absolutely felt drawn to it
right from the start and I think

662
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,280
for me it was a way I was too
stage shy to be on stage, but it

663
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,680
was a way for me to touch the
stage without being on the

664
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,800
stage.
I could be back in the dark and

665
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,440
and things that I was doing
could still radiate onto the

666
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,800
stage and it was a great way to
do that.

667
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,080
And I had my best buddy at the
school.

668
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,760
He was the sound guy.
So he's like well I'll start

669
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,160
getting sound gear And we kind
of had our little team that we

670
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,360
put together.
He by the way went on to mix

671
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,400
front of house for Tom Petty.
So it worked out.

672
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,800
Here we are, these two 15 year
old kids in Dallas.

673
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,320
Very cool.
And man, we got a lot of work.

674
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,760
We got a lot of work because as
you know, even if you don't know

675
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,000
what you're doing, if you have
gear you you'll probably get a

676
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,160
job on that local scene.
Yeah, yeah.

677
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,920
So you did that while you were
still in school too, I think,

678
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,440
right?
Yeah, I did that all the way

679
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,760
through college, actually.
And you know, as as time went

680
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,200
on, I would get more and more
gear, obviously.

681
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,760
You know, I started switching
out to professional gear.

682
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,320
So I was actually using things
that were you all listed and not

683
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,480
made out of wood, which was a
good idea.

684
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,240
I mean, I had a homemade fog
with the fact that I nobody got

685
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,240
hurt during my era coming up is
awesome.

686
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:33,080
We all did.
Yeah.

687
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,560
Yeah, right.
I mean, you know, homemade pyro,

688
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,080
you name it, we it was crazy.
But thankfully we got lucky and

689
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,640
survived it.
But yeah, man, I worked all the

690
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,200
way through college.
And what I did during that time,

691
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,800
and again, I'm sure this is a
fairly common story, I and I

692
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,360
tell this to students.
I took every possible gig that

693
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,720
had anything to do with live
entertainment.

694
00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:58,960
I was a dresser.
I would take Christmas lights

695
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,360
down at Christmas, whatever, you
know, whatever gig I could take.

696
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,600
I said yes to everything.
And it it gave me so much

697
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,160
exposure to so many people that
the story I tell people is I got

698
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,720
my.
Job my my professional job at

699
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:21,240
Verilite, which is really my
first professional gig full time

700
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,000
by taking an 4 hour sound call
for a local sound company.

701
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,920
I was mixing setting, miking a
piano with a guy and I was

702
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,240
telling him what I want to do
and interest I had in the

703
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,720
lighting.
And he's a guy named Blake

704
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,440
Dewberry and he's like, Oh, well
that's coolest.

705
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,560
You know, I know some people at
Choco and Verilite.

706
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,320
Blake had been the monitor
engineer for Van Halen for 220.

707
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,440
Jesus.
And so that you know, and I tell

708
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:55,600
students I'm like folks, it was
a $32, four hour call mixing or

709
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,800
miking a piano.
And I said, honestly, that's

710
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,000
what gave me my career, was
meeting Blake, because Blake is

711
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,280
the one who made the phone call
to get me past the, you know,

712
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,200
500 people a month that we're
sending applications to.

713
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,880
Verily.
He made one phone call and that

714
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,560
got me my interview and that got
me the gig.

715
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,200
You know what I it's it's a
tough lesson and and I want to

716
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,960
get into your your the stuff you
do with with education and

717
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,240
students and stuff.
But it's a tough lesson.

718
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,560
Do you have kids?
No.

719
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:36,680
So I have a 19 year old and you
know, trying to teach 19 year

720
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,720
olds that there's more to life
than your phone and that like

721
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:45,320
occasionally if you're at a
restaurant or wherever you are,

722
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,240
a football game, a restaurant, a
bar, a party.

723
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:51,360
I don't care where you are.
If you're just looking down at

724
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,320
your phone the entire time and
like doing this and talking to

725
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,800
someone who's not there, you're
missing so many networking

726
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,040
opportunities.
You know, because you're talking

727
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,680
to people you already know on
your phone.

728
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,520
When all these people in front
of you are new contacts and you

729
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:09,960
never know.
Like this guy could be a

730
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,680
billionaire who happens to love
racing and wants to sponsor, you

731
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,200
know, a six foot 4 driver from,
you know, Florida and this guy

732
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,560
over here could own a racing
team and this guy over here

733
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,080
could whatever, I don't know.
But you never know until you

734
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,200
talk to people.
And so I've always believed what

735
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,880
you believe, which is, you know,
what, like take every gig, do

736
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,960
everything.
Get out there, you know, put

737
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,040
your put your face in front of
other people and talk to

738
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,120
everyone.
Talk to everyone around you all

739
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,400
the time.
And not to a point of being a

740
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,480
pain in the ass.
Like, I'm not saying ask them

741
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,680
for things.
Usually it's give them things

742
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,240
instead.
Like, hey, can I give you a hand

743
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,000
with that?
Hey, you know, is there anything

744
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,160
I can do for you over here?
And my son really has learned a

745
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,720
bit of that.
But still, like, I'll see him

746
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,600
sitting in a room full of
billionaires and he's in the

747
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,200
corner texting on his phone and
I'm like, what are you doing?

748
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,080
You know, just go meet some
people, will you?

749
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,000
And yeah, yeah, you're right.
And he's very personable.

750
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:11,440
When you.
Yeah.

751
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,040
And I think I'm guilty of that
now.

752
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,760
I think I'm guilty of that now.
Yeah, I think we all are.

753
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,040
I think we're, you know, I have
to remind myself to go back to

754
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,600
being that person.
Yeah, yeah, it's true.

755
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:29,880
You know, it's I have to remind
myself, I have to remind

756
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,600
everyone, people around me, my
girlfriend, occasionally, you

757
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,720
know, like, I mean it's just,
it's it's not even got to do

758
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:39,960
with manners or anything.
It's just about, you know,

759
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,560
gaining something from that new
experience or from that new

760
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,440
meeting or networking or
introduction that that is

761
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,000
happening versus sitting talking
with my buddies on my phone,

762
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,120
texting to them while I'm at
this event.

763
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,840
Like it makes no sense.
But yeah, I I get it.

764
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,840
I it reminds me of a story.
I, you know, one of my earliest.

765
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,080
This is insane.
I can't.

766
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,160
I think about this now.
I thought about the other day

767
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,600
when I was trying to get ready
for this and I'd forgotten that

768
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,840
I used to do this.
I would just go down to the

769
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,600
arena in Dallas and and so like
83 police were the biggest band

770
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,600
in the world and they were
coming to Dallas for three

771
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,200
nights.
I just rocked out of the arena

772
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,840
at like 7:00 AM on Logan, walked
straight in the back of the

773
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,600
dock, and at 17, I looked like I
was about 12.

774
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,600
And I walked straight in the
back dock, asked somebody where

775
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,320
the production office was and
they pointed me.

776
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,880
I walked straight in the
production office.

777
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,440
I'm 17, and Keith Bradley was
the production manager for the

778
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,800
police at the time.
And here's this kid that looks

779
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,160
like he's probably lost.
You know, like like Keith should

780
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,240
be calling the police to send
this kid home.

781
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,560
Can I help you?
And all these people are staying

782
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,000
around.
I said, man, I am super into

783
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,840
lighting.
I love automated lighting.

784
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,480
Can I just watch your load in?
Do you mind if I just watch your

785
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,760
load in?
But Keith just looked at me.

786
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,600
He's like, like, I don't think
he knew what to say.

787
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,280
And he allowed me to do it.
He allowed me to do it, let me

788
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,000
stay the whole day and just
said, look, you can't, you can't

789
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,680
be down on the floor.
You know, you got to stay up in

790
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,560
the seats.
But you can do take pictures, do

791
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,200
whatever you want to do.
Hang out, Let me stay.

792
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:16,960
And honestly, one of my proudest
moments.

793
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,240
Keith was a production manager
on tour.

794
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:22,920
I did for VL and I walked into
the production office the first

795
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,160
day.
They're taking ID pictures.

796
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,720
I said it's good to see you
again.

797
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,080
And he kind of looked at me the
same way he looked at me before.

798
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,280
I said you don't Remember Me,
but I said you were very nice to

799
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,600
me when I was 17 and it's an
honor to finally be on one of

800
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,200
your tours with an actual
laminate.

801
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,320
This part of the crew, yeah, it
was just a really proud moment

802
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,960
for me to be able to work with
Keith after, you know, that

803
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,280
journey.
But that's the kind of stuff I

804
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,120
did.
You know what, George?

805
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,440
I mean, you know I'm not going
to blow any smoke up your skirt

806
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,440
or anything, but I compliment
you on.

807
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,440
Now, you've said this twice,
basically.

808
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,400
So you said the first guy that
you were miking up a piano with

809
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,560
and you knew his name.
You knew his full name.

810
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:08,000
I forget everyone's name and and
you said it it's because of him

811
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,160
that I got my job at Verilite.
It it wasn't because of me and

812
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,400
now you're giving this guy
credit for helping fuel your

813
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,280
passion towards the industry and
he could have way more easily

814
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,400
said no get out of here kid.
Before I call the police or

815
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,280
before I get security to drag
you out of here and but the fact

816
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,040
that you're giving credit to
these people tells me a lot

817
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,120
about your character and and
your longevity in this industry.

818
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,360
Because you recognize that it
takes a lot of help and and

819
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,480
you're you know you're you're
giving gratitude and all of that

820
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,320
kind of stuff And and that's so,
so important and so few people

821
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,760
do it.
You know, like I can name 20

822
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,520
people that have very good
careers in this industry that I

823
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,080
brought into the industry or
took them out of a miserable job

824
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,760
and put them in a good job or
introduce them to the person

825
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,320
that ended up being, you know,
their their massive future in

826
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,640
the industry or whatever.
And only a couple of them have

827
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,120
remembered that.
And like, we've been at an LDI

828
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,360
with a drink in our hands or
something and somebody would

829
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,600
come up to me and go, you know,
Marcel, I want to let you know

830
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,720
that you were instrumental in my
long career in this industry and

831
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:19,440
where I'm at in my life right
now.

832
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,200
And I appreciate you very much.
And I'll tell you what, being an

833
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,720
old timer now, hearing that
stuff, it makes a world of

834
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:27,640
difference.
Like, it just says, you know

835
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,960
what, as as much as I've screwed
up, I actually did a couple good

836
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,280
things in my life.
And and you know, that was one

837
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,080
of them, right?
So yeah.

838
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,880
Well, it makes you want to pay
it forward, makes you want to

839
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,360
pay for it.
The other thing that I think is

840
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,000
key and and I have a host of
names and and and I feel this

841
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,720
way about all of them.
I am so blessed that I was

842
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,200
placed with talented people at
the whole time.

843
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,120
But early on, man, I was so
blessed to be placed with

844
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,520
talented people that were
helpful and supportive and

845
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,960
covered in my butt.
And you know, I held up my end.

846
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:13,160
I mean, you know, I, I, I I gave
where I could and tried to cover

847
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,040
up for the weaknesses I had
while I learned.

848
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,920
But a lot of awesome, patient
people.

849
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,440
And I'll tell you the other
thing that and this I have to

850
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,360
keep saying to my current self,
man, I never heard no.

851
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,640
I never heard no.
I only heard this person doesn't

852
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,760
really have the answer that I
was hoping for.

853
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,080
And I would just go around that
person and on to the next

854
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,240
potential.
Yes, man.

855
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,680
You're never gonna get hired by
a big lighting company.

856
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,000
You know you're never gonna do.
You're never gonna all these

857
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,360
people would and I just.
I just shut it out.

858
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,440
It's like, all right well, I'll
try something else.

859
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,840
You know and.
No, I I say it all the time.

860
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,920
It's the front door.
Front door's locked.

861
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,200
Climb in a window, you know, go
in through the chimney like

862
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,680
Santa Claus.
I don't care.

863
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:01,160
Like, you know, there's always a
yes in there somewhere.

864
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,160
It's just you, you've got to get
to the right person with the

865
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,760
right thing that you're saying.
You have to represent the right

866
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,880
amount of value to them at that
moment.

867
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,320
And so there's a timing aspect
to it too.

868
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,560
But no, I mean it's a it's a
great I'm the same way I, you

869
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,720
know, people would call us
stubborn or stupid or whatever

870
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:24,560
because we don't hear the no.
I think would be another one.

871
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,280
Well, I'll.
Tell you a funny story you'll

872
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,400
you'll get this one.
Did you know Rich Fowler?

873
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,800
Hollywood lights, Yes.
Rings a bell.

874
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,600
I know of him.
Yeah, I mean although you were

875
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,400
with a manufacturer, you were
with a a rental company

876
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,400
manufacturer at the Times Vera
Light.

877
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,920
So, sure, this was when I first
started for Martin in 1991 or

878
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,640
maybe 92.
And I'm Canadian.

879
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,120
I don't know my way around this
country very well.

880
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,920
I've never been to most of the
cities.

881
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,960
I've been to LA, I've been to
Vegas, I've been to New York,

882
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,560
but Chicago.
But other than that, I haven't

883
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,280
really been to a lot of cities,
right.

884
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,720
And so I go on my first road
trip and when I'm doing it, I'm,

885
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,680
I'm pretty organized when it
comes to sales.

886
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,080
So I've got this notepad out and
I'm like, OK, I'm going to go

887
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,840
here, then I'm going to go here,
then I'm going to go here.

888
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,800
I'll rent a car here.
I'll drop it off here.

889
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,760
I'll fly to here and.
And so one of the towns that I

890
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,080
was going to was Portland and I
was literally, this was

891
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,640
grassroots selling and
prospecting, right?

892
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,200
So I looked in our system to see
what customers were in our

893
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,400
system in the Portland area and
Seattle and wherever else I was

894
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,400
going, San Francisco.
And so in Portland, I see this

895
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,200
company, Hollywood Lights and I
see they used to buy from us,

896
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,680
but they haven't bought anything
from us in over a year.

897
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,160
And at the time, Trachem and
Martin's distributor in the US

898
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,280
was small.
They were less than $2,000,000

899
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,920
in revenue and but nobody was
really big at that time.

900
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,640
You know you had verolite and
maybe high end was starting to

901
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:02,920
get bigger but they weren't even
big yet And and then the Italian

902
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,920
companies, which were all pretty
small over in the US anyways.

903
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,120
And so so I call up Rich Fowler
and I go, hey Rich, this is

904
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,320
Marcel.
I'm the new guy here at Trackman

905
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,040
and I'd love to come in and see.
I'm gonna be in town in a week

906
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,880
and he goes, do you know
anything about my history with

907
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,640
your company?
And I said as a matter of fact,

908
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,520
not really.
I've looked at some sales

909
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,800
reports, not a lot of notes in
the system and he goes, Marcel,

910
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,600
the last sales guy that worked
there.

911
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,840
I told him if you ever show up
in my office again, I'll kick

912
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,880
your ass.
You know, don't come in.

913
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,400
I never want to talk to anyone
from your company again.

914
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,000
And I said, well, I said, well,
I'm much nicer than him, so I'm

915
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,360
sure you'll see me.
And he goes, Marcel, listen to

916
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,120
me.
You know, I bought smoke

917
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,720
machines from your company.
They caught fire.

918
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,240
I couldn't get a refund back.
I I had nothing but problems.

919
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,680
You know, the Russian sales guy
and the French owner and blah,

920
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,240
blah, blah.
And I don't ever want to do

921
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:01,400
business.
I will never do business with

922
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,560
your company again.
And I said, OK, so is Wednesday

923
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,440
good?
And he's like, Marcel, you're

924
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,360
not hearing me, man.
And I said, Rich, I just want to

925
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,280
make it right, you know?
So I'm too dumb to know that we

926
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,560
screwed up.
But what I can tell you is I'm

927
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,360
going to do anything I can to
make it right.

928
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,320
And he said, look, you know, I
really don't want to.

929
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,480
So anyways, I went there and I
didn't have an appointment.

930
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,640
I went in, I was talking to his
sales manager.

931
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,440
I got more history on what
happened.

932
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,720
I showed him the couple of
samples that I had with me,

933
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:38,760
including the new, you know, non
exploding smoke machine and Rich

934
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,640
Fowler comes out and he goes who
are you?

935
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,120
And I said I'm Marcel from
Trackman.

936
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,760
Nice to meet you Mr. Fowler.
And he goes, I thought I told

937
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,240
you not to show up, I thought.
I told him we will never do

938
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:51,520
business again.
And I said, but Rich, I want to

939
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,520
make it right.
I just want to make it right.

940
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,200
And I feel like we have a better
product.

941
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:56,840
Now.
I'll make it right on your old

942
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,600
product.
I don't know how yet, but I'll

943
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,160
make it right and just give me a
chance.

944
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,160
And so, Long story short, I
ended up selling them a dozen

945
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,320
moving lights and some fog
machines and some other stuff,

946
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,800
and they became one of our
largest dealers on the West

947
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,560
Coast over the next few years,
took them to Denmark to the

948
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,800
factory.
We had an amazing relationship

949
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,640
and we laughed about that
initial meeting multiple times

950
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,120
since then.
That's that's some nasty.

951
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,800
I I mean I I I've, I've
unfortunately been in those.

952
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,400
We I like to refer to them as
Kevlar underwear.

953
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,240
Situations where you, you know,
you have to make sure you have

954
00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:35,120
the Kevlar underwear.
On because it's going to be

955
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,600
that.
Kind of day, Yeah.

956
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,480
Jeez.
No, We were having to put the

957
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,120
night out.
Talk.

958
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,560
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, anywho, yeah, that was that

959
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,800
was certainly my friends
interrupted out and I weathered

960
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,880
that one together.
Yeah, man, you know, I talked to

961
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,240
Bob Gordon.
About that one.

962
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,240
That is some tenacity, you know?
I don't know that I had that

963
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,000
level of there were times when I
just, you know, didn't embrace

964
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,040
those situations.
It happened a lot in touring.

965
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,080
This is about the longest my
hair has ever been.

966
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,280
So you know, I wasn't.
I mean, I don't Aerosmith.

967
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,720
You know, my hair was not in
line with the rest of the crew

968
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,560
and you know how some of that
stuff can be.

969
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,440
They can give you a hard time
and it's like, OK, you know, the

970
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,560
way you get past this is you do
an awesome job and you try to be

971
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,760
a cool cat and hopefully, you
know, somebody will respond.

972
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,200
But man, it's tough, you know,
and I I think what saved me is I

973
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,640
just wanted to be there so bad.
I just wanted to be on tour and

974
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,280
working with those bands so bad.
I don't think anything.

975
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,200
And you know, the experience, it
sounds like you're very similar.

976
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,320
I don't think anything could
have kept me away.

977
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,160
And and to be fair, like I said,
the vast majority of people I

978
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,160
encountered at that level,
especially during that period,

979
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,840
you know, you got to that level
cuz we're pretty good and you

980
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,360
did a good job and you weren't
an idiot, You know, I mean, that

981
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,560
was those crews were the
eighteens.

982
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,560
You know, the people that got
stuck in the clubs, the people

983
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,200
that never were able to make it
out of the clubs, those were the

984
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,440
ones that were a little bit more
challenging to work with.

985
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:21,000
But if you were out doing Vera
Lights on a tour in that period,

986
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:26,360
you were probably pretty OK.
So the the friend, the guy who

987
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,840
got you the introduction into
Vera Light.

988
00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:31,320
Yeah.
So how did that go like?

989
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,000
Because I know I believe it
ended up in like more than 20

990
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,800
year career, right?
Yeah, it's been crazy.

991
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,520
It's been nonstop since that was
1990.

992
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,360
I went in to see Blake and he
was at the sound company and

993
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,480
said, Blake, I'm thinking about,
you know, I'm thinking about

994
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,480
making a bleep here and buying a
bunch of trucks, maybe get some

995
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,000
motors.
And he just looked at me and

996
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,760
said, don't you want to work for
Verily?

997
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,440
And I said, yeah, Blake, but I
mean, it turned me down like 3

998
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,240
times.
They don't return my letters,

999
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,480
you know their texts that I've
met have started to file, you

1000
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,120
know, charges against me to keep
me away from them.

1001
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,640
I would meet text as I I would
attach myself to the verilite

1002
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,360
tech as a stagehand and I'd be
like I'm your guy today.

1003
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,000
I you pick me for your load in
load out and they would go do

1004
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,080
it.
They're like this this kids

1005
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,040
crazy.
But all right.

1006
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,040
What was?
It about verilite though.

1007
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,760
Was it because they had
automation and nobody else at

1008
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,800
the time did?
Well, yeah, it was I I was

1009
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,480
obsessed with Shoko because of
the Jackson Browne thing.

1010
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,560
I was huge Jackson Browne fan.
I was obsessed with Shoko.

1011
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,920
Show.
Vera Light was part of Shoko.

1012
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,600
They were in Dallas.
So I was like this is perfect.

1013
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,120
I mean he's got this is a
hometown company.

1014
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,520
They were my they were up the
street and from what I can tell,

1015
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,160
you know and obviously this is
my opinion is slanted.

1016
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,160
They were the best going at the
time.

1017
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,080
There was really just them high
end really had entered in the

1018
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,160
picture really at that period.
It was really, it was really

1019
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,640
just Verilite Morpheus, you know
Morpheus had really made some

1020
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:07,040
inroads, but Verilite had had
all that publicity from Genesis

1021
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,520
and and the early tours that
they did with the VO1.

1022
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,200
So there really was really no
question.

1023
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:15,880
And like I said, it was just
kismet.

1024
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,440
I mean, I was in Dallas, they
were in Dallas, yeah.

1025
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,120
Blake made the phone call to
Larry Sizemore, famous verolite

1026
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:28,760
guy that did ZZ Top forever.
And Larry was doing labor time

1027
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,560
and they were dying for people.
And Blake called.

1028
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,120
So he said, he said, look, you
want to work for Verolite,

1029
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:36,520
right?
And I said they won't call me

1030
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,600
back.
And he literally picked up the

1031
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:42,720
phone right in front of me,
dialed it and talked to Larry

1032
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,680
for like 10 seconds, set the
phone down, said you have an

1033
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,520
interview on Tuesday.
Don't screw it up.

1034
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:51,360
And that was.
That.

1035
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,040
Yeah.
And my face looked exactly like

1036
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,320
that.
I'm like, excuse me.

1037
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,920
And he's like, he said don't
screw it up.

1038
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,760
He's like, you can do this.
Go and press Larry, get yourself

1039
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,400
a gig.
And that was it.

1040
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:09,400
And I went install Larry and
tried not to screw up and they

1041
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,120
took me, but it was it was
crazy, man.

1042
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,000
But I'll tell you what I
remember walking in there, one

1043
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,480
of the first things I ever
remember.

1044
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,600
You would go into the front
office and there was a there was

1045
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:26,720
a Warhol of Mick Jagger mounted
and framed right in the front

1046
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:32,320
entrance way, and you would see
that sign, Andy Warhol, the

1047
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,200
print.
But nonetheless, it was a signed

1048
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,080
Warhol print and it was huge.
And I thought, this place is

1049
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,320
something else.
These people aren't fool around.

1050
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,160
This isn't some lighting company
with like cardboard boxes and

1051
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,000
duct tape in the corner.
And I have to tell you that it's

1052
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,920
strangest feeling I had felt out
of place.

1053
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,680
I had worked with lighting
companies where I really didn't

1054
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:57,600
feel like I was sorry damn near
about there.

1055
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,880
I didn't feel like I was really
fit in.

1056
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,920
And I looked around and I
thought, this place is like the

1057
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,480
NASA of lighting companies, Like
it was engineers and people that

1058
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,240
looked like me and people that
like seemed like I could get

1059
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,320
along with.
And honestly, I never forget.

1060
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,760
I thought, I hope I get this job
because I feel like I'm home.

1061
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,400
I feel like this is my place.
And you know, Jim Bornhorst

1062
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,600
walking by and and Tom Walsh and
all these famous verilite

1063
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,280
inventors and engineers, John
Covington, Ricky, Ricky Hutton,

1064
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,520
like my heroes, you know, I I
embarrassed the hell out of Tom

1065
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,760
Littrell when I first met him.
I said, you realize I bought a

1066
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,480
Genesis program so I could get a
picture of you.

1067
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,960
And he was like, that's OK And
Tom was the kind of guy that

1068
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,880
hated that kind of recognition,
but that was the truth, man.

1069
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,640
And there he was like standing
in front of me and then like

1070
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,480
then he now he's now he's my Co
worker, you know.

1071
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,040
So I was pretty happy to be
there, Needless to say.

1072
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,240
And that's how it worked out.
What was your starting role

1073
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,600
there attack?
Panic boy.

1074
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,920
So they like I said, they had a
two week class, it had a two

1075
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,720
week class, 5 days each, and
they went over the fixtures.

1076
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,680
Basic repair.
I had zero electronics

1077
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,000
experience.
None.

1078
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:26,960
But at that time I got a.
VL one, VL ones, twos and fours.

1079
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,400
Twos, threes and fours.
OK, the four was brand new, four

1080
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:35,200
was brand new, light.
And at that time they had up to

1081
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,920
then they really had only taken
technicians with DeVry

1082
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,160
experience.
So the way you got hired at

1083
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,320
Verilight was you went to school
to DeVry and they they would

1084
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,360
recruit out at DeVry.
But the majority of their people

1085
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:54,200
were were really heavy, heavy
electronics experts.

1086
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,920
I knew nothing.
I I, I knew less than nothing.

1087
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,920
I knew basic high voltage.
You know, I could power up the

1088
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,440
system cams and you know all
that sort of stuff, fix, you

1089
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:10,080
know, conventionals.
But they had at that point, they

1090
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:14,080
had kind of started a shift
where they said we really want

1091
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,800
some people that have more show
experience.

1092
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,040
We really want techs that know
more about putting shows in and

1093
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,600
out, a little bit more about
lighting design.

1094
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,760
They were kind of consciously
trying to to balance out I think

1095
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,200
their crews, because I think the
sense was I shouldn't speak for,

1096
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,120
you know, my forefathers there.
But I think the sense was we've

1097
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,200
got some people that are amazing
electronics texts, but they're

1098
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,800
not show people yet.
And that's a that's a tough, you

1099
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:47,240
know, you can be a genius with a
scope, but you know, if you

1100
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,320
can't survive load insurance and
loadouts, that's going to make

1101
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:51,640
for a tough day.
Yeah.

1102
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,160
And in, in a way, that's a
bigger part of it, all right?

1103
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,600
Like, because I can't imagine
if, God forbid you had to stay

1104
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,280
out with the show for a couple
weeks and travel on a bus and

1105
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,680
stuff.
Like, I can't imagine some kid

1106
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,520
out of Defra doing that, you
know, without any experience

1107
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,000
and.
And, and I mean, they're perfect

1108
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,720
examples, I'll tell you a famous
one.

1109
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,080
At one time it became my boss,
Lindsay Glover, at VL.

1110
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,680
He was 19.
I think when they hired him,

1111
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:21,880
they sent him out on the
Synchronicity tour.

1112
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,080
He was 19.
He hadn't left Texas and and he

1113
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,040
was on the Synchronicity tour
and Synchronicity those guys are

1114
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,600
they like played you know Cairo
and he said, George, I can tell

1115
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,600
you trying to order tech support
from Cairo is a challenge, like

1116
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,400
those are the kind of stories.
But he was an electronics tech,

1117
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:43,680
trained electronics tech and
that's what they were they.

1118
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:48,200
And with the VO1 to be fair, you
had to, you really had to know

1119
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,480
that stuff.
I mean you were going to change

1120
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,560
capacitors and resistors and you
were probably going to be doing

1121
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:58,480
some soldering.
Mercifully, it it was more

1122
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,600
swapping by the time I got on
tour where you swap assemblies

1123
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:06,480
and and send things back.
But there was an old scope in my

1124
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,480
rack for sure and you know I had
to use it.

1125
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,680
But yeah, it was.
It was a baptism by fire for

1126
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,520
sure.
So I mean you were there doing

1127
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:20,400
quick math 22 years and really
ran all the way through their

1128
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,840
entire company.
Like like if I look at your

1129
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,760
resume basically it was two
years doing this then two years

1130
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:31,040
doing this then two years doing
this and and you ended up by I

1131
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,600
think like heading up moving
lights or something like you

1132
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,480
were you went right through the.
Business.

1133
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,440
I was the product manager.
Yeah.

1134
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,320
I became the product manager.
Yeah.

1135
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,800
And, you know, it's funny
because all that first day that

1136
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,560
I walked in as an employee, I
remember it was this buzz of

1137
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,120
activity.
And then I'm telling you, it

1138
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,640
felt like NASA, you know, It
just felt like it was like, wow,

1139
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,160
this is really, you know, they
were extremely successful.

1140
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,240
Shoko was in the building as
well.

1141
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,360
So, I mean, if we weren't doing
a tour on the sound side, we

1142
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,720
were doing it on the audit
lighting side, like it was, you

1143
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:08,120
know, a great time.
And I thought man these people

1144
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,080
are they've all beaten me to the
game.

1145
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,120
They've everyone here is ahead
of me.

1146
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,040
I'm last in line.
Like I'm never going to be able

1147
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:19,120
to make a name here.
You know when you hang on for 22

1148
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:23,680
years and and and you you get to
you get to become part of the

1149
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:28,280
team.
It it was some of the smartest

1150
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,520
people I've ever worked with.
And I have to say I'm thankful

1151
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,560
that I got to go through it
twice in the sense that I

1152
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,120
essentially got to have the same
experience with Clay Paki.

1153
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,400
And I remember walking into Clay
Paki and thinking, wow, this is,

1154
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,520
this is the Verolite of Italy.
You know, this is, I laugh about

1155
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,040
it.
I've told the Clay Paki guys,

1156
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,920
I'm like, you realize you've got
a counterpart in Dallas.

1157
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,960
Like there's somebody exactly
like you working at Verolite.

1158
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,320
I've met.
You know, I like I had there are

1159
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,800
personality types and I'm sure
you've experienced this in our

1160
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:02,600
industry.
You know there's the there's

1161
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,760
that crazy engineer that's a
genius.

1162
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:08,480
But you kind of have to you know
sort of you know rope them in

1163
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,960
And then there's there's the
grumpy guy that's that has these

1164
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,560
kernels of wisdom.
But you got to he's going to be,

1165
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,440
he's going to be grumpy too.
Yeah.

1166
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,960
Exactly.
Like you know, he's like he's

1167
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:19,960
like the, he's like the bridge
troll, right.

1168
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:24,000
And he's a genius and, you know,
and you love him because he's

1169
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,280
kind of crazy and crotchety and
grumpy like, Oh my God, the same

1170
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,880
personalities.
It was like walking into an

1171
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,760
Italian version of Vera Light.
And I told him that I I said,

1172
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,680
you know, I I have tremendous
respect for both companies.

1173
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,440
But it's just funny how you,
Dallas and and Bergamo were kind

1174
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,280
of doing the same things in
parallel in a lot of.

1175
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,760
Ways.
Well, yeah, I mean we can talk

1176
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:49,960
about that because you know the
Italians I'm quite familiar with

1177
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,440
as well.
But so I I just want to get the

1178
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,960
timeline put together here.
So you were at Vera Light till

1179
01:05:54,960 --> 01:06:02,400
2012, then you left and and
ended up at ACT as the moving

1180
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,320
light guy basically at ACT right
am I?

1181
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,040
Yeah, yeah.
They gave me a title of, they

1182
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:12,320
gave me a title of VP of
Automated lighting and Bob and

1183
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:17,000
Bob and Ben were were incredibly
kind and supportive and you

1184
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,480
know, essentially ushered in the
second part of my career.

1185
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,080
And of course this little light
called the Sharpie was doing

1186
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:28,200
quite well and and you know we
had some some great years there.

1187
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:29,600
That's of course where I met
Brian.

1188
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:36,480
So that was about, yeah, this
May of 2012 and I I stayed there

1189
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,200
until 2018.
But yeah, it was, you know, it

1190
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,080
was a great time, ups and downs
just like all these companies.

1191
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,040
But you know I had had that with
Verilite as well.

1192
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:49,800
I mean you know, we had a time
when we could do no wrong and

1193
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,560
and and you've experienced this,
you've alluded to racing.

1194
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:56,840
I'm a huge race fan, so.
You have time.

1195
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,400
You have times and you can't
lose and you have times and you

1196
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,560
can't win and you're still
driving the car the same way.

1197
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,280
But you know, for whatever
reason, you know, I mean, Lewis

1198
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:08,840
Hamilton hasn't won a race in
two years.

1199
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,800
I don't think he's I've
forgotten how to drive.

1200
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,520
No, no.
It takes a lot of components

1201
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,480
coming together.
Hey, as a as a side note, I will

1202
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:20,600
tell you that our lovely
producer Sarah spent many years

1203
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,320
with Formula One.
She used to work with Formula

1204
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:24,000
One.
Yeah.

1205
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,640
So in a really.
Cool.

1206
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,560
I'll be.
I'll be chasing her for a gig.

1207
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:30,560
There you go.
We all are.

1208
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,720
We're all chasing her for gigs,
yeah.

1209
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,160
Yeah, she's laughing at both.
Of us right now.

1210
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,000
I can see her in the green room,
laughing at us.

1211
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:44,080
My wife has informed me that if
I get a a job in Formula One,

1212
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,440
the next thing I can do is try
to find a lawyer that'll sort me

1213
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,680
through our divorce because she
she's familiar with schedule.

1214
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:51,960
Yeah.
Yeah.

1215
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,480
It's the only thing worse than
our business, probably.

1216
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:59,200
Well, you're not kidding, man.
I mean, you know you, we can

1217
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,960
talk about four months, six
months, eight months tours, man.

1218
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,880
You look at the Formula One
schedule, they're not fooling

1219
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,920
around.
I mean, that circuit blows my

1220
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,800
mind because unlike any other
racing circuit that I've seen

1221
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:15,400
and they're all pretty tough as
you know there is boy that

1222
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,080
movement around the earth is, is
massive.

1223
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:20,680
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and just the

1224
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,439
amount of stuff they're moving
around from there, like

1225
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,960
hospitality, you know, trailers
or whatever you call them,

1226
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:32,120
buildings, and not to mention
all the cars and engines and

1227
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,720
people and tools and equipment
and blah, blah, blah.

1228
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,359
It's such an enormous operation
moving that stuff around.

1229
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,800
I can't even imagine what that
cost is.

1230
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,720
Logistics are tremendous.
I I have a bunch of friends in

1231
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,439
US racing and I always give them
a hard time.

1232
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,319
I'm like, you know you you guys
only have one or two trucks to

1233
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:56,680
load each night.
We typically do from 20 to 40,

1234
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,479
you know.
So yeah they they get a laugh

1235
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,720
out of that cause literally you
know most of the US series

1236
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,520
you're loading one or two semis
total and and for the most part

1237
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,560
everything's on wheels including
the car, so.

1238
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,319
So back back to so you're at act
you you.

1239
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,840
I mean, The funny thing is like
something like the Sharpie, when

1240
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,960
something happens like that and
you have a product, Oh.

1241
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,120
Yeah.
We had a bit of a Internet freak

1242
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,960
out there and it punted George
off the podcast, so he's back.

1243
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,399
I think it's because we were
talking about racing, so God was

1244
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:37,880
punishing us.
That or my wife.

1245
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,439
That or your wife.
Yeah, it could be your wife.

1246
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,760
You might have pushed the red
button if she's maybe.

1247
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,240
She did?
Oh, I'll show you.

1248
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:47,760
I'm going to download puppy porn
or something, you know.

1249
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:52,160
My poor bride has heard more,
more than enough about cars and

1250
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,880
racing.
Well, I want to spend the entire

1251
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,040
second-half of our podcast
talking about cars and racing

1252
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,080
then because I could.
I don't know if you know this

1253
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,160
about me, but you know, it's
sort of been my life for the

1254
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,520
last 11 or 12 years.
It's funny.

1255
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:11,560
Because I'm familiar.
Watching Donnie Ladiko now with

1256
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:17,000
his son Luca, who started racing
karts I think about two years

1257
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,880
ago now.
And I've helped guide him a

1258
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,840
little bit along the way, cuz we
did 10 years of karting at a

1259
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,080
very, very high level,
international level.

1260
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:29,640
And so we've been guiding him a
little bit on some of the stuff.

1261
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,160
And I can just watch the layers
of addiction.

1262
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:34,600
You know, you're on level one
now.

1263
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,960
You're on level 1.5, now you're
level 2, you know, and he's

1264
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,040
getting to the point, like he
told me last week in a Facebook

1265
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,280
post that they're doing, I think
he said two days a week plus

1266
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,840
this plus that at the track,
right, 'cause I said, are you

1267
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,280
doing any SIM work yet?
And he's like, no, we're doing

1268
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,120
two days a week at the track and
this and that.

1269
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:55,480
And, you know, my son grew up
where he was seven years old and

1270
01:10:55,480 --> 01:10:58,680
his nanny was taking him to the
track on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

1271
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,520
and I'd take him all day on
Saturday.

1272
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,360
And we were spending three days
a week at the track.

1273
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:06,240
You know it's.
Just crazy.

1274
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:07,240
Yeah.
I'm familiar.

1275
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:14,600
I my, my racing, my initial
racing benefactor has three

1276
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:19,960
children that at one point in
time we're trying to make it

1277
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,120
into the sport.
Three children, not one, three.

1278
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,440
They were trying to make it sort
of into the NASCAR, starting on

1279
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:29,160
dirt tracks.
And and he just told me it's

1280
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,720
like George, he's like even with
sponsorship, he's like trying to

1281
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,720
keep three kids racing is really
a challenge.

1282
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:39,480
You know it is.
Yeah, and it and and it and it,

1283
01:11:39,480 --> 01:11:43,520
You know, even in a racing
family, it it's tough.

1284
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:47,400
And he has some sponsorship and
you know they've they've worked

1285
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:48,560
through it.
But he's like, I'm just trying

1286
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,320
to convince my kids to like
baseball.

1287
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:55,040
Yeah, well, my kids 6 foot 4 and
he races in an open wheel

1288
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:57,720
formula car.
He's not, he's not supposed to.

1289
01:11:57,720 --> 01:11:59,760
Like I'm like we.
Tried I, I.

1290
01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:04,040
Hired a a retired NBA player to
teach him basketball.

1291
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,920
You know, the guy took my money
for a few months and finally

1292
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,760
said Marcel, Look, you know, I
know you're trying because he's.

1293
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,360
12:00 and 8:00 again here.
I think I lost it.

1294
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:13,720
We.
Can still hear you.

1295
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:14,840
Sorry.
Yeah.

1296
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:15,760
Sorry.
Yeah.

1297
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,120
I get it.
We were trying to teach him with

1298
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,000
basketball.
The guy just said, look, Marcel,

1299
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:22,320
you're wasting your money on
this.

1300
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,400
The kid doesn't have any passion
towards it.

1301
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,560
We tried football, we tried
hockey because I'm Canadian.

1302
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,640
We've tried everything and it
just we lost him again.

1303
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:34,400
We had another glitch.
We had another Internet crash

1304
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,360
and lost George again.
George is really good with

1305
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,280
lights but not so good with
connections.

1306
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,360
I'm just kidding, George.
Ones and zeros I don't know.

1307
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,560
It's all supposed to line.
You know, it all seemed to be

1308
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,280
fine until we got on to racing.
So we need to get off to racing

1309
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,880
conversation.
So we were, we were, we were at

1310
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,080
ACT with clay packing.
And one of the things I was

1311
01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:01,400
talking about is, you know it's
not often that companies get

1312
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,960
these runaway hits in our
industry in the lighting

1313
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:09,400
business specifically.
And you know Martin had it with

1314
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:13,280
the Mac 2000 high end initially
had it with the Intelli Beam and

1315
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:17,920
then sort of with the Cyber
Light again the Mac 2000 and

1316
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,920
then the Sharpie just went bam,
it took off like a rocket.

1317
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:26,960
And the problem with that,
especially when you've got a

1318
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:30,120
smallish company like Clay
Packie that all of a sudden is

1319
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:34,280
growing on the sales of one
light and certainly it dragged

1320
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:36,680
some other ones along with it.
I'm sure you can tell us more

1321
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,280
about that.
But but really I'd have to guess

1322
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:44,320
that Sharpie was 50 or 60% of
the sales that you were doing.

1323
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:47,480
And because people were buying
them by the thousands, you know,

1324
01:13:47,480 --> 01:13:50,840
because every tour, every show
had sharpies on it, lots of

1325
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,320
them.
And it really single handedly

1326
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,040
kind of changed the look of
shows.

1327
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,720
You know it went from from Gobos
to these bam, these really tight

1328
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:06,680
sharp beams, you know and So
what was that experience like

1329
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:11,320
having a just a rock star of a
light like that that just.

1330
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:21,280
Yeah, honestly, I felt like it.
I felt like I was used to that,

1331
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:24,040
honestly.
I mean, when I started we had

1332
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:28,560
the two and the four and as much
as people swore at the VL Four,

1333
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:30,800
they did love what it looked
like.

1334
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:35,120
It had a beautiful look.
Then we went to the VL 5 and you

1335
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,240
know, then we, you know, there
were some stumbles in there for

1336
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,200
sure.
But pretty quickly we came up

1337
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:43,360
with the VL 3000.
I work with some of the

1338
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,560
engineers and some of the
designers that we have that

1339
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,680
we've been working with.
The time came up with the VL

1340
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:54,600
3500 Wash which was really
popular and and so then I I

1341
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,520
moved to Clay Paki and they've
got the Sharpie that was already

1342
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,320
going, you know, before I came
there.

1343
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:03,680
But Bob recognized the potential
of that as Bob is very, very

1344
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,080
good at doing.
You know, he has a Midas touch

1345
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:09,200
for recognizing.
Yeah, absolutely.

1346
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,040
That little MA thing worked out
pretty well for him.

1347
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,640
And the whole thing before that.
Yeah, right, right.

1348
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:21,040
So it felt pretty normal and you
know as I'm sure you can

1349
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:26,560
appreciate from your history the
the the hangover or the rush or

1350
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,960
the, the drug effect of that is
you do get a little spoiled by

1351
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:32,320
it.
You know in the back of your

1352
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,560
mind you're thinking we need to
you know keep going and come up

1353
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,360
with other lights.
But you know sales are shipping

1354
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:40,880
out in wheelbarrows, money is
coming in wheelbarrows,

1355
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:43,520
everybody's happy.
But you know there's that that

1356
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:48,880
that you know international
worldwide historical rule that a

1357
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:54,400
company cannot base all of their
sales on a single product or you

1358
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,480
know a very small.
So you you're constantly trying

1359
01:15:58,480 --> 01:16:01,640
to expand but your customer base
doesn't really want to hear it.

1360
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:03,920
They're like just keep giving us
more Sharpies, you know we just

1361
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,600
want more Sharpies.
So I think there's always,

1362
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,080
there's always a a reset period
that happens.

1363
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:16,280
I mean, I'm so, I'm so happy for
Paki Pascali Quadri, the owner

1364
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:20,640
that he was able to experience
that, you know, because it was

1365
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:23,840
really worldwide recognition.
And I'm so happy because he was

1366
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:27,680
this genius inventor that you
know was doing Italian club

1367
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,360
lighting and built this whole
company.

1368
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,000
And I tell people when I go to
the factory, I'm like this

1369
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,960
factory was built by Sharpie.
Sharpie paid for this factory.

1370
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:40,520
And again, I'm so thankful that
he had that that success in his

1371
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:44,440
career because he deserved it.
You know, he, he, he brought

1372
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:50,840
his, his city, his family, his
country to the international

1373
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:55,000
forefront with with his
inventions and absolutely and

1374
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,920
well, I mean in.
Round numbers and and you won't

1375
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:02,680
say it but I will you know I'm,
I'm guessing that the Sharpie

1376
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:07,160
alone probably took Clay Paki
from being like a 5 to

1377
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:12,360
$7,000,000 US brand to about a
$30 million US brand.

1378
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:18,720
I think at the at the top of
Sharpie there and and you know

1379
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,640
really put Klaypaki on the map
in a big way.

1380
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:27,960
Cuz prior to that Claypaki to me
was always sort of the the

1381
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:33,080
Lamborghini of lighting.
Comar was the Ferrari.

1382
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:36,640
It was broken all the time but
had a lot of horsepower and and

1383
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,880
really you know good performance
but it was always broken.

1384
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:42,560
You had to have a tool kit in
your pocket every time you you

1385
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:47,200
turned one on clay Paki was much
more refined.

1386
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:51,920
They had perfect optics and
perfect this and perfect that

1387
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,680
and it was just a much more
refined product line.

1388
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,960
And you know, of course those
two companies have a lot of

1389
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,200
history together or against each
other as competitors.

1390
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,680
But the founders were friends.
Like, I went out to dinner one

1391
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:10,960
time with Bruno Dedoro and and
Piscali Paki, and they're

1392
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:12,720
friends.
You know, they're they're better

1393
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,520
competitors, but they're
friends.

1394
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:17,200
So.
Well, it felt like there was

1395
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,280
more honor among thieves at that
time.

1396
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:21,960
You know, like anything else,
it's a different from business

1397
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:26,440
now And and I think, you know,
these backroom and adventures.

1398
01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:30,360
I mean the joke with with Shoko
was, you know, they started with

1399
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,000
two speakers in a garage and one
of the speakers didn't even

1400
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,000
work, you know, and it it, it
probably wasn't that far from

1401
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:37,960
the truth.
But they're also incredibly

1402
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,840
driven and and brilliant people.
And again, I saw so many

1403
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:47,120
parallels in Rusty Boucher and
and his team of owners and

1404
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:51,040
engineers and has small like
Quadri and the people in Italy

1405
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,000
and and his team.
I'm like, Oh my God, I can't

1406
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,000
believe it.
I know all you guys in Texas,

1407
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:00,640
it's just now you speak Italian.
But it was literally that kind

1408
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,720
of there were a lot of those
companies and what's interesting

1409
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:05,760
and you said, you know, you and
I hadn't crossed paths.

1410
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:09,440
Brian Dowd and I joke about this
like we're both coming up and

1411
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:12,120
doing club shows and trying to
make our way and all this.

1412
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:14,880
We never crossed paths.
And so I started working for

1413
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:16,400
ACT.
He had a whole career in the

1414
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,400
industry, but it was all with
these East Coast lighting

1415
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:23,600
companies that I had never come
across, you know, and and I knew

1416
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:28,440
all these, you know, sort of
Texas Legends, ML Pro Size and

1417
01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:32,480
Tom Littrell and all these guys
that were famous in my world.

1418
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:36,760
And everybody you know, then you
had upstage and doing their

1419
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:39,600
thing like, you know, up in
Canada you had these great

1420
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:43,400
companies.
What's interesting about it to

1421
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:48,760
me is we were all sort of going
through the same growth spurts

1422
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:55,080
and successes and failures and
learning curves together, but

1423
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:56,400
independently.
Yeah.

1424
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:00,160
And when we started cross
pollinating, you know, guy like

1425
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:03,440
you, you, you and I'll sit down,
we have so many similar stories

1426
01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:05,880
because we were basically doing
the same thing but in different

1427
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:07,400
worlds.
Yeah, No, of course.

1428
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:11,800
Well, and and you started at it
from the show side where as I

1429
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:16,280
started from the sales side, I
was a sales guy and I had no

1430
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:19,800
history and lighting, you know,
my my history and lighting was

1431
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,920
selling packages to nightclubs
and that was about it, right.

1432
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:27,520
And and so I got a sales gig at
Martin, you know, as a regional

1433
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,160
sales manager and that was
really my indoctrination into

1434
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:33,160
the lighting business.
And at the time it was club

1435
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:37,600
lighting and it was actually me
who pushed really hard to get

1436
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:42,280
them to look at and eventually
you know, move into or move

1437
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,280
towards and it wasn't an easy
transition, believe me.

1438
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:47,600
I was there for, for the hard
parts of it.

1439
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:50,800
That's why, like you, you kind
of said at one point like you

1440
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:54,400
probably had the same situation
where I had multiple successes

1441
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,360
under my belt, like what you had
at Verilite and and then oh,

1442
01:20:57,440 --> 01:20:59,560
Mac. 2K, man.
I never did.

1443
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,800
I never once did.
I always started at a company

1444
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:04,600
when their product line was
garbage.

1445
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,040
I helped get it to a point and
then I jumped off right before

1446
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,480
it got super successful.
So I mean I left Martin a couple

1447
01:21:11,480 --> 01:21:16,360
years before the Mac 2000I.
I went to high end for a short

1448
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:21,400
period of time when the X spot
came out and you know, so that

1449
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,200
was not you had the studio beam
in the X spot.

1450
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:28,680
Like that was not a good moment
for high end, but the cyber

1451
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,440
light was still really hot and
studio colors and studio spots

1452
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:34,280
were still pretty hot.
So, you know, I was there for I

1453
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,320
think the biggest year that high
end ever had.

1454
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:39,720
But you know, my timing was
always really bad when it came

1455
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:43,200
to those runaway successes.
I had to work really hard to

1456
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:48,760
sell robo scans against cyber
lights and wasn't easy.

1457
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:54,120
I had to rely on sales skills
not not you know not really

1458
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,160
great products combined with you
know good customer service or

1459
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,000
whatever it was usually sales
skills.

1460
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:04,640
So, but, so then at one point I
think what happened and you can

1461
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:07,120
correct me because I'm probably
wrong, but I think what happened

1462
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:10,120
is Clay Pack, he just kind of
went to to Bob Gordon and said

1463
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,760
hey, you're doing a great job.
But we we need to have our own

1464
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,760
presence in the United States
and we really need to have an

1465
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,520
office here and have our own
brand here.

1466
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:22,680
And I think part of what was
driving that was probably that

1467
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:26,720
Roby had made that jump and
Martin had made that jump buying

1468
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,520
their distribution.
And so now the big competitors

1469
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:33,560
were Martin and and Roby and
High End and they all had their

1470
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,480
own physical presence in the
United States and if we want to

1471
01:22:36,480 --> 01:22:38,040
compete with them, we've got to
be here.

1472
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:39,320
Is that kind of how that went
down?

1473
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:46,560
Well, you know, my father always
used to say the decisions I made

1474
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:48,600
were always right at the time
that I made them.

1475
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:53,360
And and you know one of the
things that I think it's really

1476
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,640
easy for us to forget and
because we've been doing it our

1477
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:00,560
whole lives.
But our industry is brand new.

1478
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:04,760
I mean wet behind the ears new
this, this automated lighting

1479
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:11,760
really it it you know what 1980
basically 81 you know so.

1480
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,640
So I think the growth changes
the the growth spurts the

1481
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:20,000
changes the challenges are are
unique.

1482
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,080
You know I I compared a lot of
times to the automotive industry

1483
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:28,000
in its in its infancy where you
know you had like the Tucker

1484
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,640
which was this car that had
these amazing features and you

1485
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,680
know they went out of business.
And it's a famous story about

1486
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,720
this guy that had these genius
ideas and you know, nobody even

1487
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,200
knows what Tucker is anymore.
And it was a it was my car was

1488
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:45,720
miles ahead of its time.
So there were going to be

1489
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,720
companies that were going to
fall by the wayside.

1490
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:51,000
I think there still are.
And they're all these changes in

1491
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:57,200
terms of distribution and sales
and features and and you know,

1492
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:01,480
even platforms, I mean you know
the Verilite protocol was

1493
01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:06,040
cutting edge back in the day.
Rusty embraced DMX far after

1494
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,680
everyone else did because we had
this bi directional digital

1495
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,080
coms.
That was awesome.

1496
01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:15,320
And you know, you can argue
whether they're right or wrong

1497
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:18,960
to license it or not.
I mean, again, they were smart

1498
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:22,680
people and they made decisions
based on what they knew at the

1499
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:25,720
time and what they thought was
going to happen.

1500
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:31,480
And this thing called DMX, which
we all felt was vastly inferior

1501
01:24:31,480 --> 01:24:33,880
for controlling lights, became
the standard.

1502
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:40,200
And so I remember when we had to
shift to to DMX control of Vera

1503
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,840
lights, it was it was work.
We had no experience with DMS.

1504
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:45,680
We had never.
Touched it.

1505
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,720
I mean, just like what we're
experiencing in politics in this

1506
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,640
country right now, democracy is
hard, you know, I mean, so, so

1507
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:56,160
when you when you want everybody
to be able to operate moving

1508
01:24:56,160 --> 01:25:01,320
lights on the same rig, multiple
manufacturers and and to be able

1509
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:03,920
to ship lights out to this
company and then this company

1510
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,680
and then this company and
they're not all owned by the

1511
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:11,680
mothership like they were in the
original days, Yeah, I mean you

1512
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:15,600
have to choose a, A, a common
language, obviously you have no

1513
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:17,640
choice.
Sure, sure.

1514
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:21,560
And I and so I think you have
folks like Bob you know and the

1515
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:26,280
folks in Italy and these people
are Bob and Ben and and Brian

1516
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:29,080
you know all people I consider
really visionaries and and very

1517
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:32,320
smart people and the folks in
Italy everybody's trying to make

1518
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:36,480
the best decisions they can.
The landscape is changing and

1519
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:39,720
you know the thing that I that
really was interesting to me is

1520
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,400
I I had some experience with
this Vera light, but really even

1521
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:47,880
more so with Clay Paki.
It's a worldwide company, it's a

1522
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:52,040
worldwide operation you know and
Alberico is in in charge of

1523
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:55,720
sales there now and overseas.
That and one of the things that

1524
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,720
that he made clear to me and I
really you know, I hadn't really

1525
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,840
taken it for granted.
Their business is different

1526
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:06,200
depending on where they are in
the world and and the way they

1527
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:10,480
interact with distributors and
dealers and customers is vastly

1528
01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:14,720
different and they operate on
the entire sphere, Alberico,

1529
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:19,360
overseas, all of that and and
lights are purchased differently

1530
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:24,480
in Japan than they are in
Australia than they are in South

1531
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:27,040
America.
And when you start to think

1532
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,760
about the choices that are being
made are being made based on

1533
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:34,720
this entire globe versus just my
own little particular region

1534
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:38,600
which happens to be North
America, it it starts to give

1535
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:42,400
you an appreciation for why
certain ships move and things

1536
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:47,440
move the way they do and you
know obviously the what your

1537
01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:50,880
competitors do, that's a factor
man.

1538
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,000
I think we're going to be
seeing, you know, you think

1539
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,120
we've seen change up to now just
wait, you know, I mean it's it's

1540
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,840
going to come like a tsunami.
You know, what you just said is

1541
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,640
so true.
And you know, I think part of

1542
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:07,200
what you're saying is, is that
to do big business in the US,

1543
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:10,920
you have to sort of adopt some
of the the US culture, you know,

1544
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:14,240
the the culture of doing
business in the US And it's one

1545
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:17,320
of the things that the European
companies have always, always,

1546
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:21,520
always struggled with and it's
what makes ACT so successful as

1547
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,640
a distributor.
It's what made Bob Gordon so

1548
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:25,920
successful.
You know, you can't just come

1549
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:28,520
here and do business the Italian
way, you have to do it the

1550
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,960
American way.
And so you know, it's not just

1551
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:33,760
clay packing, it's not just the
Italians.

1552
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:38,120
Robe had the same problem and it
was really a couple of years of

1553
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,560
massive losses.
They almost backed out of this

1554
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:44,240
country and then they managed to
bring in Bob Shockrow.

1555
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,040
And you know, Bob is a smart
guy.

1556
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:50,680
Bob helped build high end to be
one of the biggest brands out

1557
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:54,600
there.
And all Bob did was, you know, I

1558
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,360
don't want to downplay what Bob
did, but really all he did was

1559
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:00,920
follow the recipe book.
Like he just said, OK, I'm going

1560
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,720
to hire the same basic guys
that, you know, we've done it

1561
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,360
somewhere else.
And he hired some high end guys

1562
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,640
and some other, you know,
quality people.

1563
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:12,400
Well, it's interesting.
I'll interrupt you for a second.

1564
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,520
You have to stop in there
because in the interest of dogs

1565
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,640
and cats sleeping together, Bob
was my boss at Vera Light.

1566
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,960
Keep in mind when he came back
to the industry, he came into

1567
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:26,120
Vera Light and basically all of
those people thought he brought

1568
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:29,560
that same team in, had
tremendous success at VL.

1569
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:33,440
I mean, all those folks were,
they were all, I think largely

1570
01:28:33,440 --> 01:28:35,960
every, almost every one of them
was X high end.

1571
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:37,520
Yeah.
Craig, bro.

1572
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:38,920
Sean Hoey.
Sean Billow.

1573
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:41,920
His pocket gang.
His his pocket gang of people.

1574
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,080
Hey, follow me over here.
Hey, come over here now.

1575
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:46,600
Yeah, it's funny.
You're you're totally right.

1576
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:48,120
Band.
If the band plays right

1577
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:50,240
together, you know, don't fire
the bass player.

1578
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:53,200
I mean them all together.
That's all he did.

1579
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:56,480
You know, again, I don't want to
oversimplify how hard it was to

1580
01:28:56,480 --> 01:28:59,920
turn Roby into the juggernaut
that they are today, but really,

1581
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:02,000
that's all he did.
He took a successful group of

1582
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,920
people that did it somewhere
else twice by that time.

1583
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:10,720
Yeah, I have to say though, this
I think important for me to say

1584
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:15,120
because I I truly believe this
it it all sounds like some

1585
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:18,680
Pollyanna line.
But man, I have been so

1586
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:23,000
fortunate to be in the same room
with such amazing people.

1587
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:25,440
And Bob's another one of Bob.
Shocker.

1588
01:29:25,440 --> 01:29:28,600
I mean, Bob Bait looked very
effortless.

1589
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:32,840
He made it look very effortless.
But there was a lot going on,

1590
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,120
that man.
We would walk out of meetings

1591
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,680
and he would start telling me
things, and he had just sat

1592
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,320
there and kind of listened.
And then we would walk out of

1593
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:43,280
the meeting with a client or a
customer and he would start

1594
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:45,080
telling me things that he had
picked up on.

1595
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:48,920
And I thought, wow, this guy,
he's getting it on many levels.

1596
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:52,760
I learned a lot from that, you
know, very different style than

1597
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,320
Bob Gordon, very different style
from Rusty Boucher.

1598
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:02,360
But again, you know, I think
again, go back to the student

1599
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:08,120
and take advantage of the
monsters you get to walk into

1600
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:12,440
the room with, you know, be it
the designers we work with, the

1601
01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:17,800
artists, the salespeople.
I mean, you know, and again, I I

1602
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:19,840
shouldn't calling out too many
names.

1603
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:23,800
Brian Dow, Craig Burrows.
I mean two completely different

1604
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:28,720
people.
The the magic what they do in

1605
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:31,680
really magic at what they do.
Completely different people,

1606
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,960
completely different styles.
But I mean, I go to school every

1607
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:36,520
time I sit down with either one
of those guys.

1608
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,720
Yeah, yeah, I know they're both
both very good at their jobs.

1609
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:43,920
Both have been very successful.
And no, you're totally right.

1610
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:48,440
You're totally right.
So you've mentioned a lot

1611
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:54,360
students and you know, so like
tell me a little bit of your

1612
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:58,560
work that you've done as far as
education and and why and how

1613
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:03,840
you think that's important to
the industry and yeah, give me a

1614
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:08,520
bit of that.
I, I, you know kid in Cleveland,

1615
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:14,480
No context hanging on to any
possible thing that could get me

1616
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:19,800
a break and and educators were a
big part of it.

1617
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:23,360
People in the industry that I
respected giving me the time of

1618
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:28,040
day was a huge part of it and I
just kind of made that promise

1619
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:29,760
to myself.
But I think we all do.

1620
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:32,600
I know Sooners very much into
this.

1621
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,400
Nick Whitehouse is very much
into it.

1622
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:41,600
We kind of made that promise to
somehow try to give back, you

1623
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:44,200
know, in whatever way.
And I don't nearly do enough of

1624
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:45,760
it.
I mean, I don't have a master's

1625
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:47,520
degree, so I'm not going to
teach anywhere.

1626
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:51,160
I don't believe I'm skilled
enough to do that.

1627
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:56,360
But what I can do is to try to
give students a sense of

1628
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,640
possibility, a sense of
potential.

1629
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:02,760
You know, like I said, that
there's a stairway out there if

1630
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:06,360
they're willing to look for it.
So I try to involve myself in

1631
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:09,320
things where that's, you know,
possible to do.

1632
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:14,120
I find it incredibly beneficial
and it's not altruistic.

1633
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:18,320
I get a lot from the students.
I mean there's there's something

1634
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:21,840
about a 20 year old kid telling
you how it is now that's

1635
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,440
extremely valuable.
If you're willing, yeah, you

1636
01:32:24,440 --> 01:32:25,920
should pay.
You should pay attention to

1637
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:30,080
that, by the way, because they
know some things, you know, and

1638
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:33,120
it's not necessarily they're not
smarter than us.

1639
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:35,800
I think in some sense we're
probably a heck of a lot smarter

1640
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,520
than they are.
But we don't know.

1641
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,520
We don't know how things are
done now, you know, it's like

1642
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,640
every once in a while I go to my
son and you know, recently we've

1643
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:50,240
been playing with these YouTube,
what are they called shorts?

1644
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:53,960
And you know, I went to my son
and asked him how you know,

1645
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,280
because he's 19 years old, he,
he lives on YouTube and

1646
01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:00,760
Instagram and he knows all about
that stuff.

1647
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:03,680
And so I went to him and said
what's the best way to do this?

1648
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:08,800
Why would I use this versus this
and flat out told me you know so

1649
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:09,800
I.
Mean.

1650
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,120
That's right.
Yeah.

1651
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:13,800
Sometimes if you want to know
what the audience wants, you

1652
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:17,280
have to ask them, right?
And so most of the fans are 20

1653
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:18,840
years old.
You might want to ask some 20

1654
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,160
year olds what they want to see,
right?

1655
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:23,280
Yeah.
And and I I think the thing I

1656
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:26,840
try to impart to them is a sense
of availability.

1657
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:33,240
The most overriding positive
memories I have are these people

1658
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,520
that were my heroes.
And again I mention names

1659
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:39,800
because it's important that
they're they're important people

1660
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:41,880
to not just me, but the
industry.

1661
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:44,520
Jim Bornhorst, great example.
I don't know if you know Jim.

1662
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:50,320
You know the guy.
I mean he's amazing.

1663
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,280
I mean in front of house
engineer, on running on empty

1664
01:33:53,480 --> 01:33:57,280
mix, the mix, the live sound on
that, on that album, he

1665
01:33:57,280 --> 01:33:59,960
considers himself a sound man,
but he invented the barrel light

1666
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:04,200
with his team.
He doesn't lay that on you when

1667
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:07,840
you're 22 years old or 24 years
old and you meet him, he's just

1668
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:10,400
your colleague and you're
sharing information.

1669
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:14,280
He never has ever given me that
impression that he's like this

1670
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:16,360
luminary.
See what I did there in the

1671
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:24,320
business, man, That kind of
humility, but also accessibility

1672
01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:28,680
just was so impressive to me.
I was like, man, I just want to

1673
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:32,360
be accessible.
If some kid, I give kids my

1674
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:36,160
card, I'm like, look, just call
or text me if you have a

1675
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:38,400
question.
There's no questions too stupid.

1676
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,760
I want to help.
I just want to be available to

1677
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:44,440
you.
The thing that I find is so

1678
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:49,280
distressing is that young
students don't feel like they

1679
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:53,040
have a voice with the
manufacturers or that they even

1680
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:56,800
have access to a manufacturer.
I want that kid.

1681
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,920
I want that kid in Cleveland or
Milwaukee to know, man, if

1682
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:05,280
you've got a question about a
light, text me, call me.

1683
01:35:05,440 --> 01:35:09,040
And like, you know, I'm here,
man, you know, I was.

1684
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:10,400
I handed the car and said, guess
what?

1685
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:12,400
You now know somebody at the
factory.

1686
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:16,640
Well, you know what, what you're
saying is so super important.

1687
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:23,440
And so I had Rob Koenig on
recently and we talked about

1688
01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:29,000
this a little bit and there was,
you know, a, a lady and her son

1689
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,480
came up and the lady was wearing
a concessions shirt and I don't

1690
01:35:32,480 --> 01:35:36,880
remember I it was either load in
or soundcheck or something And

1691
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:40,600
and she was wearing a concession
shirt and she came up to to Rob

1692
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:43,240
and said, hey, you know, my son
is obsessed.

1693
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:46,480
He wants to be, you know, on
tours and he wants to be in the

1694
01:35:46,480 --> 01:35:50,600
lighting business and he wants
to do this and that And and you

1695
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:53,600
know, Rob, Long story short,
basically took him and showed

1696
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:58,600
him around and you know gave him
the Grand Tour and gave him an

1697
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,600
indoctrination an introduction
into concert lighting.

1698
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:05,720
And you know to me that is
priceless.

1699
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:09,960
Like that kind of stuff is
priceless and so many people now

1700
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:15,320
are so they just live life in
gratitude and they're so happy

1701
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:19,080
to share that with with
especially younger generations

1702
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:22,160
but with anybody, you know, it's
not just somebody coming up and

1703
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:24,280
going, hey, you got to set list,
you know, or whatever.

1704
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:29,080
It's it's more about, you know,
actually really wanting a bit of

1705
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:31,360
an education.
And the other point I wanted to

1706
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:35,040
make was, you know, I've
probably mentioned this way too

1707
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:38,320
many times on the podcast, but I
loved it sooner.

1708
01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:43,160
Talked to me about, you know,
her sort of outreach and and

1709
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:46,000
wanting to go out and speak in
front of schools and speak in

1710
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:49,840
front of youth groups or
whatever it is to basically

1711
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,320
market our industry, especially
coming out of COVID when there

1712
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:58,600
were such shortages.
And you know, she said one of

1713
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:01,680
the first things that I see
people's eyes open up and go

1714
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:06,400
whoa is they don't realize that
you can actually make a good

1715
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,320
living in this industry.
Like, you can make 100 grand a

1716
01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:12,200
year and be on tour with a rock
band that you love being out

1717
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:16,000
with And, you know, be in that
atmosphere and everything else

1718
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:19,960
and see the world for free, you
know, with a per diem, you know,

1719
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:23,080
where you can eat in Greek
restaurants in Greece and and

1720
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,000
Chinese restaurants in China,
you know, or whatever, right.

1721
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:32,240
And she said half of her battle
is convincing people that it's

1722
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,960
not just a bunch of gypsies.
You know, this isn't a Gypsy

1723
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:37,480
lifestyle.
This is a real professional

1724
01:37:37,480 --> 01:37:41,160
traveling live event show.
It's not a circus and it's not

1725
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:45,560
gypsies.
One of the things I I always,

1726
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:49,400
you know, felt proud of and it
it just, I think it came to my

1727
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:51,040
My father was a corporate
attorney.

1728
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:55,360
I had to do a lot of convincing
to tell him that this was a

1729
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:57,880
legitimate thing.
It was tough.

1730
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:01,040
He was like, this is a job.
Like people do this, you know,

1731
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:03,200
We had to go through that whole
thing and you know, thank

1732
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:06,560
goodness he was he was accepting
and he gave me, gave me a chance

1733
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,800
to prove it.
I always got paid, man.

1734
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:12,520
I always got paid.
I the whole starving artist

1735
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:13,920
thing.
I never bought into it.

1736
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:16,760
I worked with kids in college
like, Oh my God, I'm a lighting

1737
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:18,120
guy.
I'm going to be poor forever.

1738
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:20,800
I'm like, I'm at and I'm making
money right now and I'm a

1739
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:21,880
sophomore in college.
I'm.

1740
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,440
I'm working all weekend.
I can buy anything I want, man.

1741
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:29,960
And and I I just, I I didn't
want to ever buy into that.

1742
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:33,600
I'm in entertainment.
I'm going to suffer from my art.

1743
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:35,880
Sure.
Obviously everybody goes through

1744
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,680
some of that.
You know my wife went through it

1745
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:42,680
living in New York, you know,
and she was coming into the into

1746
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:45,360
the business.
You know, she suffered.

1747
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,920
I mean it was it was hard living
in New York and and trying to

1748
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:51,240
make her way.
But this whole, you know this

1749
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:53,480
whole I have to starve from my
art thing.

1750
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,080
You don't.
You really don't.

1751
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,640
And you know the other thing I
think that that you mentioned

1752
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:06,160
Rob and sooner I try to do
exactly those things as much as

1753
01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:09,120
I can.
I think sooner both of them, you

1754
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:12,920
know, but more than I do.
But the second thing, I don't

1755
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:16,080
know if they do this or not.
I try to give them the little

1756
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:17,720
bit of the experience that
they've asked for.

1757
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:19,840
You know, show me this or show
me around, answer some

1758
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:24,000
questions.
I try to then put the the

1759
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:28,240
opportunity into their hand
meaning I hand them my card and

1760
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:31,720
what I try to do is I try the
last interaction to be for me to

1761
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:35,480
say look this is I'm making
myself available to you.

1762
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:40,520
And my point is I I hope it
feels like it empowers them to

1763
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:45,400
say OK I may this may be for me
maybe it's not maybe I you know

1764
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:50,160
it's not as cool as I thought it
was but if I do something this

1765
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:54,360
person will respond me.
My point is I and make the the

1766
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:58,560
young person give them the
position of power of being in

1767
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:03,160
command of hey man, I'm here's
my information and I will pick

1768
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:04,640
up.
You know, if they take the time

1769
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,680
to call, I'll answer.
But here's the challenge.

1770
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:11,840
I would probably so few do.
Yeah, that's true.

1771
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:17,960
But I think two things.
One, I think on any level I I

1772
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:20,320
hope they appreciate it.
I hope they appreciate it

1773
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:21,760
because it's not just the
gesture.

1774
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:25,440
And I tell you, the ones that
do, man, they're the ones that I

1775
01:40:25,480 --> 01:40:29,000
mean over the years, the ones
that have gotten back to me.

1776
01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:32,560
All of them are working in.
The top levels, No, that's the

1777
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:35,120
thing.
I mean, you know, there's some

1778
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:38,560
real good old fashioned life
skills that if you can somehow

1779
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:41,840
transfer and I try to do it with
my son and sometimes I've been

1780
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:46,160
successful, sometimes I haven't.
But you know follow up doing

1781
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:49,480
what you said you were going to
do, first one there, last one to

1782
01:40:49,480 --> 01:40:50,960
leave.
You know some of those things

1783
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:54,080
have really carried my kid
pretty far in the racing game.

1784
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:57,920
You know, like typically he is
there helping them take out the

1785
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,400
tools in the morning and stuff
because he's the first driver

1786
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:05,240
there and he's always still
there when all the other drivers

1787
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:08,720
have left and he's helping close
up the the trailer at night or

1788
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:12,440
whatever, right?
Like he he spends, he spends

1789
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:16,600
those extra hours with the team
because they work harder for him

1790
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,400
then you know he knows that.
Like he knows if I'm going to,

1791
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:22,240
if I'm going to help them,
they're going to help me and and

1792
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,080
it makes a real difference and
it shows character, so.

1793
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:27,920
Character is the one thing.
That's tougher to teach when

1794
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:31,320
you're talking especially about,
you know, and again, I'm not

1795
01:41:31,320 --> 01:41:34,680
picking on anybody, the young,
younger folks today, that the

1796
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:39,920
younger generation have so many
advantages and and so many

1797
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:43,480
benefits that we didn't have,
you know, the ability to reach

1798
01:41:43,480 --> 01:41:46,480
thousands of people just by
putting a post on on social

1799
01:41:46,480 --> 01:41:51,640
media, you know, just everything
is so much more available than

1800
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:54,960
it was when we were kids, you
know, And you had that literally

1801
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:57,520
mail letters into Verilite, you
know what I mean?

1802
01:41:58,000 --> 01:41:59,240
Like you didn't like that
anymore.

1803
01:42:00,480 --> 01:42:05,120
Yeah, it's interesting.
I I I feel in my uneducated view

1804
01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:09,520
of it that it probably evens out
in the sense that I think

1805
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:12,920
there's a lot more opportunity.
But kind of like when you and I

1806
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:15,480
first got cable television,
there are a whole lot more

1807
01:42:15,480 --> 01:42:19,000
channels, but you know, 87 of
them are crap that we weren't

1808
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,360
interested in.
And so there's a, you know, a

1809
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:25,640
friend of mine that's a front of
house sound engineer.

1810
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:30,160
You know, I asked him, I said
these new PA's, what's the

1811
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:31,360
story?
You know, it's like, is it

1812
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:33,960
really better than the stuff
that we started with, the analog

1813
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:35,480
and everything?
He looked at me, so, you know,

1814
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:38,200
he said I think it's a lot
easier to be average.

1815
01:42:38,480 --> 01:42:41,480
He said I think it's a lot
easier to be an average sounder.

1816
01:42:42,200 --> 01:42:46,320
And and I thought about that and
I thought, you know, that kind

1817
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:50,080
of makes sense, he said.
You still, it's hard to be

1818
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:53,880
exceptional still like it's
always been, but it's a whole

1819
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:57,080
lot easier for kind of somebody
to walk up and make something

1820
01:42:57,080 --> 01:43:00,880
sound pretty OK.
Well, you know, another thing

1821
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:04,840
that plays into that is, is the
technology on the lighting side.

1822
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:08,800
And I talk about this a lot on
the podcast, but you know, I'm

1823
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:10,840
not a tech, I'm not a techie
person.

1824
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,560
There's somebody listening to
this podcast right now laughing,

1825
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:16,560
but you know, I've never fixed
anything.

1826
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:21,520
I've broken a lot of lights and
but I was.

1827
01:43:22,440 --> 01:43:28,080
I was at Ayrton in Paris a
couple years ago and had one of

1828
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:32,720
their engineers showing me the
inside of of a light and I was

1829
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:34,560
blown away.
I hadn't seen the inside of a

1830
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:38,480
light since probably, I don't
know, the Mac 2000 or something,

1831
01:43:38,480 --> 01:43:39,760
you know, like quite a while
back.

1832
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:44,480
And I was blown away by what
that thing looked like on the

1833
01:43:44,480 --> 01:43:48,840
inside and by how good it was.
And my point is that we're kind

1834
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:51,640
of spoiled now by how good
everything is.

1835
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:54,920
Like everything.
Is that good, right?

1836
01:43:55,640 --> 01:44:00,080
Yeah, yeah it is.
And and I tell the artists that

1837
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,560
we work for, I'm thrilled for
you because it's a challenge for

1838
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:06,520
us.
But man, the technology, the

1839
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:10,000
width and breadth of technology
that's available to the artists

1840
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,800
that we work with is amazing and
it's awesome.

1841
01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:18,640
And and I I love that, you know,
because I mean at the time,

1842
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:22,480
being a lighting designer now,
you know even if you're doing

1843
01:44:22,480 --> 01:44:25,760
community theater, you have
technology available to you that

1844
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:29,000
is just insane.
Like, we couldn't even fathom,

1845
01:44:29,480 --> 01:44:31,360
right.
You know, like, I mean I'll go

1846
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:34,400
into like junior high school,
then they'll have moving lights

1847
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:37,440
and their rigs, you know,
because kids are like 11 and 12.

1848
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:41,520
The one side of it that, you
know, again playing the old guy

1849
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:44,840
card, I was telling some of the
other day, I said yeah, you

1850
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:46,440
know, and that's how awesome.
I said.

1851
01:44:46,440 --> 01:44:50,560
But I'm still pretty happy that
when I did my first club shows,

1852
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:53,960
I had like 12 lights and two of
them worked half the time.

1853
01:44:55,480 --> 01:44:57,880
And you know what that forced me
to do?

1854
01:44:58,120 --> 01:45:00,280
And you probably hear this from
a lot of designers and artists

1855
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:04,960
having nothing forces you to
create more with less.

1856
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:08,720
And that's a that's an awesome
lesson to learn early on

1857
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:12,120
because, you know, like, again,
anybody can do something with

1858
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:15,640
250 lights, but it's really easy
to make chocolate for half the

1859
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:19,440
songs if you just, you know.
You're so right.

1860
01:45:19,480 --> 01:45:23,440
You're so and you know, I I I
think it was like Jim Yakubusky

1861
01:45:23,440 --> 01:45:26,360
or or some front of house guy
that I was talking to about this

1862
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:30,560
one time and I said you know how
much better does like do these

1863
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:33,720
line array systems sound than
the old W bin systems that we

1864
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:37,600
used to use in clubs.
And he said a good sound guy can

1865
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:39,360
make either one of them sound
great.

1866
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:43,080
But an average same same way of
saying what you just said, you

1867
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:46,720
know but an average or a lousy
sound guy is going to you know,

1868
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,800
the the sweet spot is much
larger basically.

1869
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:52,800
It's just like when when
Callaway and Ping came out with

1870
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:55,560
these these drivers that the
heads were this big and they

1871
01:45:55,560 --> 01:45:58,640
kept getting bigger, right.
The sweet spot just got bigger.

1872
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:01,560
So you could, you could wiggle a
little bit or miss a little bit

1873
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:05,400
in your swing and you could
still knock the ball 250 yards

1874
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:09,160
down the center ish of the
fairway and still make people go

1875
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:13,040
oh and ah, and even though it
was kind of a shitty swing and

1876
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,600
and you know, if you had an
older technology club, it would

1877
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:18,080
have been in the trees somewhere
100 yards up, right.

1878
01:46:18,520 --> 01:46:23,360
So So yeah, but I mean it really
is cool that everything's so

1879
01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:25,440
good now because you can kind of
check that box.

1880
01:46:25,440 --> 01:46:28,600
You don't have to worry about
half your rig, you know, goofing

1881
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:32,360
up during the show or dropping
out lights during the show or

1882
01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:34,520
whatever, because most of the
stuff really works well.

1883
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:37,520
And now that it's all LED, you
don't have the heat issues that

1884
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:41,480
you used to have with with, you
know, like Sharpie got a little

1885
01:46:41,480 --> 01:46:43,160
bit warm on the inside, that's
for sure.

1886
01:46:43,160 --> 01:46:48,320
Still does.
Yeah, it's, you know, but I I do

1887
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:53,040
think it is a yin and Yang, a
give and take kind of thing.

1888
01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:56,680
And and you know what I mean by
that is like you think about the

1889
01:46:56,680 --> 01:47:02,280
kid that goes to the show now
and, you know, is filming the

1890
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:03,520
show or that, you know, we see
it.

1891
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:05,560
Audience members that they're
they're kind of filming the

1892
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:07,000
show.
They're not really experiencing

1893
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:09,400
the show in person.
And you can kind of look at that

1894
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:11,160
and say, well, that's, you know,
that's kind of lame.

1895
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:13,280
They they should be present.
OK.

1896
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:18,760
But that person now has a memory
of that experience that they can

1897
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:21,880
relive over and over.
It's it's not good or bad

1898
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:24,520
compared to what we had, man.
When I went and saw, you know, a

1899
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:26,880
Prince, I saw Prince on the
Purple Rain tour.

1900
01:47:27,560 --> 01:47:31,840
That's how old I am.
There was no nothing, man.

1901
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:36,000
I it was me at the show, right?
It was us at the show and you

1902
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:39,320
got your 90 minutes of Prince.
Two hours and that was it.

1903
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:41,120
And you weren't going to like
you were going to go home and

1904
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:44,120
check it on YouTube, video
cameras, video.

1905
01:47:44,480 --> 01:47:47,520
Video cameras were this big so
you couldn't bring one into the

1906
01:47:47,520 --> 01:47:49,440
show, tucked into your pants or
something.

1907
01:47:49,440 --> 01:47:52,080
You know that wasn't happening.
Exactly.

1908
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:53,720
But.
And the concert video didn't

1909
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:56,840
come out for like a year later
and it didn't look that great

1910
01:47:56,840 --> 01:47:59,960
because it was, you know, it was
way too dim for like the whole

1911
01:47:59,960 --> 01:48:02,600
thing, right.
I remember being so bummed out

1912
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,520
and it wasn't the artist that
were doing it.

1913
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:07,720
It was just like they can't
capture what Roy was doing on

1914
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:10,680
that tour.
It just wasn't possible.

1915
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:13,440
And they had to upload, you
know, they had to bring in so

1916
01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:16,160
much fill and all the rest of it
that the all the moments were

1917
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:19,680
kind of compromised.
But so it's different, you know,

1918
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:22,800
So I I don't do better or worse.
I don't know.

1919
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:26,160
You know, I had to.
I lock those memories that show

1920
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:28,520
into my head, cuz that was the
camera, That was it.

1921
01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:31,760
And I can still see that show.
I can still see that but.

1922
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:35,680
I still appreciate that it
exists because there's a lot of

1923
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:38,920
these shows that I'm just not
curious enough to go stand among

1924
01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:42,240
a crowd and watch the show.
But I'm super grateful that

1925
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:45,120
somebody took out their iPhone
and recorded the song that I

1926
01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:47,840
really wanted to hear.
And I can watch it on YouTube,

1927
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:50,320
right?
And And it sounds pretty good.

1928
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:53,160
It looks half decent, you know,
I mean, that's one of the things

1929
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:57,360
that blows me away is how good
these, these cell phone videos

1930
01:48:57,360 --> 01:48:59,800
sound.
You know, like it's like, whoa,

1931
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:02,120
you know, it almost sounds.
Like, it got Very good.

1932
01:49:02,400 --> 01:49:03,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

1933
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:07,080
And I I remember I had a moment
I was out on again a million

1934
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:08,880
years ago.
I was out on Depeche Mode and

1935
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:13,000
they had these incredible this
was the the Violator tour and

1936
01:49:13,000 --> 01:49:16,040
had a bunch of deals out there.
And the the film on that they

1937
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:18,040
used film projectors they did
not use.

1938
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:21,160
It was film projectors.
And I think it was that in

1939
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:24,000
Corbin that had these just
images that were just

1940
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:27,640
mesmerizing.
And I remember standing in front

1941
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:32,200
of house like just trying in
vain to, you know, mentally

1942
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:35,400
video record these stunning
images I was seeing.

1943
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:37,680
And I remember thinking to
myself, I'm never going to see

1944
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:40,360
this stuff again.
Like in, you know, it's just

1945
01:49:40,360 --> 01:49:43,960
this is never going to this,
this view because the concert

1946
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:46,560
video will come out and it'll be
different and it won't look at.

1947
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:48,280
And I just remember thinking,
this is it.

1948
01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:50,280
I'll never see these clips
again.

1949
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:55,080
I found somebody posted on
YouTube had like the B roll from

1950
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:56,360
the tour.
I did like, I don't even know

1951
01:49:56,360 --> 01:49:59,680
where they would have gotten it,
but they had all that imagery

1952
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:03,800
and God knows where they got it.
If it was stolen or if it was

1953
01:50:03,800 --> 01:50:06,440
illegal, I don't know.
But it's on YouTube, you know,

1954
01:50:06,480 --> 01:50:09,440
you type in Depeche Mode,
violator tour and boom, the

1955
01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:12,560
stuff comes up.
It was such a pleasant memory

1956
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:14,520
for me, Bill.
I thought I'm, I was never going

1957
01:50:14,520 --> 01:50:18,080
to see those clips again.
The film work on that show was

1958
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:20,760
just amazingly beautiful.
It was, well, they've.

1959
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:23,040
Always been so creative, you
know?

1960
01:50:23,080 --> 01:50:26,960
Yeah, and like sort of out there
wanting to push, push the

1961
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:29,160
envelope a little bit, push it a
bit further.

1962
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:33,640
What do you think of this whole
concept of designers who are

1963
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,240
designing for iPhones,
basically?

1964
01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:42,880
So, you know, they're they're
designing not only color and and

1965
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:47,000
intensity and but like shapes
and stuff that will fit onto

1966
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:49,880
phone screens.
Because they know that while

1967
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:53,320
there are 20,000 people in the
arena for the show, there's

1968
01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:57,000
going to be 20 million people
online, you know, waiting to see

1969
01:50:57,000 --> 01:51:00,080
a good copy of it.
And so it's going to get a lot

1970
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:03,400
more eyeballs on YouTube than it
is in in that audience.

1971
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:08,600
But I mean, do you have?
You talked to anybody about that

1972
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:12,880
kind of stuff.
Oh, sure, sure.

1973
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:14,240
I mean, it comes up all the
time.

1974
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:18,160
I I have to say, I I embrace it.
I think it's exciting.

1975
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:21,080
And I try to remember that, you
know, our forefathers, our

1976
01:51:21,080 --> 01:51:24,520
colleagues from the past, they
had to make the leak from black

1977
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:27,960
and white to color television.
They had to make the leak from,

1978
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:31,680
you know, traditional over the
air broadcast to HD telecast.

1979
01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:34,760
Like all these things happen
that change the art that these

1980
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:37,720
people create, that change the
products that I'm trying to

1981
01:51:37,720 --> 01:51:41,560
build for the artists.
You know, to me, it kind of

1982
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:44,080
keeps us honest and keeps us
fresh.

1983
01:51:44,080 --> 01:51:47,040
I mean, the reality is that I
get it from the artist

1984
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:49,080
viewpoint.
There's 20,000 in the building,

1985
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:51,200
like you said.
But that thing's going to live

1986
01:51:51,200 --> 01:51:55,160
forever on YouTube or on
somebody's camera phone, you

1987
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:56,600
know?
And then how many millions of

1988
01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:00,000
people is that?
I had a designer that that said

1989
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:03,920
to me, the artist came to them
and said give me 6 different

1990
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:08,480
moments during the show that
somebody can shoot, just give me

1991
01:52:08,480 --> 01:52:10,640
6 moments.
And it wasn't that they weren't

1992
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:13,080
being creative or weren't
interested, but that was their

1993
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:16,320
focus as an artist for what they
wanted the audience to receive

1994
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:18,320
from the show.
And I thought, wow, that's

1995
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:19,920
really interesting.
And they said, you know, do what

1996
01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:22,160
you need to do for the show,
give me, you know, your Moody

1997
01:52:22,160 --> 01:52:25,640
looks and all the artsy stuff.
Just give me 6 different moments

1998
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:29,680
and somebody can come to this
show and and present them

1999
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:31,360
because.
That's what it's all about, is

2000
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:35,640
those moments, yeah.
Moments matter.

2001
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:40,760
And again, then push me.
You know, I Look, the Vera light

2002
01:52:40,760 --> 01:52:45,240
was created by people that got
tired of using Parkins, and and

2003
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:49,480
I benefited mightily from that.
You know, Paki got tired of

2004
01:52:49,480 --> 01:52:52,800
seeing the same old disco
spinners in Italy and was like,

2005
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:55,080
you know what?
I can do something different.

2006
01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:59,680
I can, you know, use them like
it drives us to the next level.

2007
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:01,440
I mean, you know, I don't even
know what we're going to be

2008
01:53:01,440 --> 01:53:03,320
using in 10 years.
God only knows.

2009
01:53:03,320 --> 01:53:04,360
I mean, the way things are
going.

2010
01:53:04,360 --> 01:53:09,640
Yeah, I love that, man.
It keeps me excited about what

2011
01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:12,680
we do.
The challenge is, and now I'm

2012
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:14,960
gonna sound again like a
negative blah.

2013
01:53:15,200 --> 01:53:18,720
But the challenge is Claypakke's
an innovator.

2014
01:53:18,720 --> 01:53:21,520
Always has been.
Claypakke's always really been

2015
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:23,240
on the cutting edge of
innovation.

2016
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:27,560
But to innovate just like in the
drug business and and you know

2017
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:31,120
the the pharma, big pharma
business is so much larger.

2018
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:35,880
So very large companies can sue
anybody they want and generally

2019
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:38,880
be pretty successful in our
industry.

2020
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:43,200
The plagiarism is disgusting and
it and it's so blatant and in

2021
01:53:43,200 --> 01:53:47,040
your face and like you'll see
Claypackie or another company.

2022
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:50,240
I'm not just saying Claypackie,
but Claypackie's always been an

2023
01:53:50,240 --> 01:53:52,840
innovator.
They've always done things sort

2024
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:54,960
of on the cutting edge and
they've been able to charge for

2025
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:57,480
it usually, right?
Like Clay Paki has always

2026
01:53:57,480 --> 01:54:00,640
historically and I'm not saying
they are today, but historically

2027
01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:03,240
they were a little more money
than some of the other guys, but

2028
01:54:03,480 --> 01:54:06,840
it was because their products
were so innovative and and good,

2029
01:54:06,840 --> 01:54:10,280
you know.
But now, like I've seen recently

2030
01:54:10,280 --> 01:54:13,280
where Clay Paki comes out with
something crazy, just really

2031
01:54:13,280 --> 01:54:16,040
cool.
And I I won't even name names or

2032
01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:19,000
or fixture types cuz then people
will know who I'm talking about

2033
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:23,400
on the on the plagiarizers.
But you know you'll come out

2034
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:27,200
with something really cool and
like literally the very next

2035
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:30,360
trade show, there's four copies
of it.

2036
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:36,720
And you know, to me, when you
take away the incentive, you

2037
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:42,560
know, you take away a lot of the
innovation and example, if if

2038
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:46,040
drug companies have no incentive
to create a cure for cancer or

2039
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:49,200
any other disease out there and
they're not going to make those

2040
01:54:49,200 --> 01:54:51,680
trillions of dollars, they won't
bother.

2041
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:55,720
Like, why would you spend the
$100 million to innovate if

2042
01:54:55,720 --> 01:54:59,320
you're not going to get back,
you know, 20-30, fifty X on that

2043
01:54:59,320 --> 01:55:04,320
money, you know.
So yeah, you got any thoughts on

2044
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:05,480
that or you just don't want to
sound?

2045
01:55:05,480 --> 01:55:07,440
Like a bastard.
Oh yeah.

2046
01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:12,600
Oh no, no.
Here's the thing with my history

2047
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:16,760
at Verilight, I got that lesson
pretty early on.

2048
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:18,840
You know, there were some
lawsuits that people are all

2049
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:21,200
aware of.
There were some acrimonious

2050
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:25,680
things that happened.
You know, there's some hurt

2051
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:29,160
feelings that.
And and what I learned pretty

2052
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:31,680
quickly is that's going to
happen.

2053
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:34,760
That is going to happen no
matter what happens in racing.

2054
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:37,440
It happens in microwaves.
It happens in everything.

2055
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:42,520
You have two choices.
You can fight it tooth and nail

2056
01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:46,240
and lawyer up and go to court
and do all those things and

2057
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:49,560
wring your hands and complain to
your friends in bars, or you can

2058
01:55:49,560 --> 01:55:51,600
just try to come up with the
next thing that everybody's

2059
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:54,760
going to copy.
And from my experience, it makes

2060
01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:57,560
a whole lot more sense to just
keep running and don't look

2061
01:55:57,560 --> 01:56:01,400
back.
And this brings to my mind the L

2062
01:56:01,400 --> 01:56:06,760
word, which is laser, which is
the thing that's been most

2063
01:56:06,760 --> 01:56:08,960
exciting to me about what Clay
Pack he's been doing for the

2064
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:11,520
last three years.
I've I've been up to my neck and

2065
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:15,920
lasers for for three years now
and it's fascinating.

2066
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:19,480
It's frustrating.
It's probably the hardest thing

2067
01:56:19,480 --> 01:56:22,400
that I've ever pushed through in
terms of products.

2068
01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:26,200
I've spent more time talking to
government agencies and dealing

2069
01:56:26,200 --> 01:56:29,480
with alphabet agencies in the US
than I ever thought I would.

2070
01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:32,400
And yet it's incredibly
rewarding.

2071
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:35,360
And of course now they'll be
they'll be copying and they'll

2072
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:39,440
be you know other companies are
are doing exciting things as

2073
01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:41,960
well where on their.
Own account though George, like

2074
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:44,920
with the with the variants.
Where we at with that?

2075
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:47,280
Cause I've heard multiple
versions of the story.

2076
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:51,480
Well, it it for us, I can only
speak for us because and it's

2077
01:56:51,480 --> 01:56:56,200
not by on design on our side,
our variants only applies to our

2078
01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:58,200
fixtures.
But basically it's all done and

2079
01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:00,440
dusted.
It's very simple.

2080
01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:04,560
There's a 90 minute online class
that we offer that's free.

2081
01:57:05,120 --> 01:57:07,920
We train folks.
They then take a test at the end

2082
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:10,120
of that.
They received their variance at

2083
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:12,000
the end of it.
This is like say a rental

2084
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:14,560
company.
The rental company receives the

2085
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:16,200
variance.
Once they have the variance,

2086
01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:19,240
they can purchase the lights or
they can cross rent them from

2087
01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:21,880
somebody else that has them and
they can do their shows.

2088
01:57:21,880 --> 01:57:24,080
And there are some requirements,
but they're pretty simple.

2089
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:27,920
It's all free and that's it.
It's straightforward.

2090
01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:31,160
The FAA comes into it.
Does Clay Packe?

2091
01:57:31,600 --> 01:57:34,640
Does Clay Packe pay a a lobbyist
or anything though?

2092
01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:37,760
Like, do you guys, Are you
taking a more proactive approach

2093
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:40,720
on just changing the damn law?
No.

2094
01:57:40,720 --> 01:57:43,640
And here's why.
I mean, you mentioned politics

2095
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:45,640
earlier.
I mean, look, you know, we're in

2096
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:48,160
a country now that's so divided.
I don't think we could, you

2097
01:57:48,160 --> 01:57:50,760
know, argue which side of the,
the, the doors the senators are

2098
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:52,960
going to walk in when they open
the doors to the Capitol.

2099
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:54,760
I mean, you know, we can't agree
on anything.

2100
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:57,360
The cost of that is so
prohibitive.

2101
01:57:57,920 --> 01:58:00,280
I'm sure you've heard, you've
probably heard some of the

2102
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:03,240
things Michael Strickland's had
to say about trying to lobby

2103
01:58:03,240 --> 01:58:06,680
Congress just to, you know, he's
very passionate about something

2104
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:09,480
that I think is awesome, which
is trying to protect our

2105
01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:12,560
industry, you know, from another
COVID situation.

2106
01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:15,880
I don't think anybody can argue
that that's a, that's a

2107
01:58:16,640 --> 01:58:22,160
tremendously noble cause and
altruistic of Michael to be part

2108
01:58:22,160 --> 01:58:23,800
of.
And he's having a hard time

2109
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:26,240
getting that pushed through, you
know, and he's trying to do good

2110
01:58:26,240 --> 01:58:30,320
things for people.
So I I don't feel like so we

2111
01:58:30,320 --> 01:58:33,960
don't, it's not a big business
for us.

2112
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:37,960
You know if the laser started
interestingly for us through

2113
01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:40,720
awesome with the automotive
products which you by the way

2114
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:44,160
can get in Europe, you know in
ABW you can get laser source

2115
01:58:44,160 --> 01:58:48,560
fixtures right, lights, that's
where it kind of came from.

2116
01:58:48,760 --> 01:58:52,120
Now, if you start talking about
automotive light bulbs now, you

2117
01:58:52,120 --> 01:58:53,680
know, maybe we can afford some
lobbyists.

2118
01:58:53,680 --> 01:58:57,040
But entertainment?
Lighting I've You know what

2119
01:58:57,040 --> 01:58:58,240
about video?
Projection.

2120
01:58:58,240 --> 01:59:00,920
What about video projection?
Like we've got you know, Wii

2121
01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:06,160
Gear Source sells 25K laser
projectors all day long, and

2122
01:59:06,520 --> 01:59:10,480
they don't need variances.
It's the it's my understanding

2123
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:13,320
of it and I I have to be careful
because the engineers spend a

2124
01:59:13,320 --> 01:59:15,840
lot of time educating themselves
on this.

2125
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:18,560
And then I come in, you know,
with my notepad and write down a

2126
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:21,320
few highlights.
But my understanding of it is

2127
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:25,080
the difference is really
centered on the fact that it's

2128
01:59:25,080 --> 01:59:30,280
not an automated device that can
suddenly and randomly spin into

2129
01:59:30,280 --> 01:59:33,520
the crowd if DMX is lost or if
there's a technical problem.

2130
01:59:33,800 --> 01:59:37,080
Now we have protections in our
fixtures and I believe you know

2131
01:59:37,080 --> 01:59:39,280
the other, the other
manufacturers that are doing

2132
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:43,040
this in a reputable fashion also
have those things that the FDA

2133
01:59:43,040 --> 01:59:46,040
requires.
But that's that's the key.

2134
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:50,600
To the silly thing is though you
know the the suggestion or

2135
01:59:50,680 --> 01:59:57,400
assumption is video projectors
don't scan into the crowd but

2136
01:59:57,400 --> 02:00:00,440
you can.
I mean, I could take 25K laser

2137
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:03,080
projectors and aim them right at
the crowd and do whatever the.

2138
02:00:03,080 --> 02:00:04,560
Hell I want with them and just
leave them.

2139
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:08,760
Yeah and I don't know how that
you know I don't know at least

2140
02:00:08,760 --> 02:00:14,520
from our side it's it's based on
the the amount of of of power

2141
02:00:14,520 --> 02:00:16,640
that that comes out of the
fixture over this.

2142
02:00:16,880 --> 02:00:21,720
Obviously the diameter of the
beam the radiance is 150

2143
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:24,320
thousand that of a three Watt
laser right.

2144
02:00:24,320 --> 02:00:27,760
So that's where you start to see
why they're nobody's losing

2145
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:31,440
nobody's having you know eye
injuries from these kinds of

2146
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:34,120
fixtures.
You still have to be mindful and

2147
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:37,840
follow the rules, but it's 150
thousandth the power of the kind

2148
02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:39,320
of lasers that you and I grew up
with.

2149
02:00:39,560 --> 02:00:43,520
But I'm sure there's guys on the
Italian side who are like, but

2150
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:47,160
Georgia, you know, the problem
to me is you know, like a

2151
02:00:47,160 --> 02:00:51,120
sharpie could probably damage
someone's eyeballs every bit as

2152
02:00:51,120 --> 02:00:55,600
much as a as a you know.
I don't look at any of them.

2153
02:00:55,600 --> 02:00:57,960
I mean I I really don't.
I, you know, I I don't look at

2154
02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:00,040
any of them.
I I try to be even have been my

2155
02:01:00,160 --> 02:01:02,440
my whole career.
I try to be mindful of that

2156
02:01:02,640 --> 02:01:05,000
because I again, I had designers
back in the day.

2157
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:08,120
They're like look if you want to
do this for a long time make

2158
02:01:08,120 --> 02:01:09,400
sure you don't look into these
lights.

2159
02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:11,680
You know start wearing
sunglasses during focus during

2160
02:01:11,680 --> 02:01:13,680
the day and you know don't be
stupid.

2161
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:16,120
And thankfully those people were
there.

2162
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:19,160
But what's interesting to me,
and this is the the thing that I

2163
02:01:19,160 --> 02:01:23,400
find challenging when I'm trying
to stay upbeat about it, is the

2164
02:01:23,400 --> 02:01:26,960
fixtures aren't regulated in
this way in in almost any other

2165
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:30,520
part of the world.
You go to places like Germany or

2166
02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:34,040
even the UK where as I'm sure
you know, there's a sign for

2167
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:36,440
everything.
You know, mind this, mind that,

2168
02:01:36,440 --> 02:01:38,880
right.
And and they don't have the same

2169
02:01:38,880 --> 02:01:41,000
regulations.
And that's what's frustrating,

2170
02:01:41,280 --> 02:01:46,280
you know, if I had something
that I felt was truly a risk to

2171
02:01:46,280 --> 02:01:49,640
people in the sense that, you
know, we would think of as a

2172
02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:51,880
serious risk, I would understand
it.

2173
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:57,920
But it's it's hard when you say
guys Yeah well and I get it you

2174
02:01:57,920 --> 02:02:02,320
know there they're they're doing
their best they can to you know

2175
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:05,680
there's somebody and I always
say there's somebody at the FDA

2176
02:02:05,920 --> 02:02:08,320
that doesn't want to get into
trouble for hurting anybody.

2177
02:02:08,320 --> 02:02:09,920
They they want to keep people
safe.

2178
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:12,800
That's that's a noble, you know,
that's a noble desire.

2179
02:02:12,920 --> 02:02:17,800
It's once a law is in place,
getting the law removed is so

2180
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:21,520
frigging difficult for whatever
reason, that law was put into

2181
02:02:21,520 --> 02:02:26,040
place, you know, 30 years ago or
something getting it taken out.

2182
02:02:26,040 --> 02:02:28,560
You've got to have a very
compelling reason and like you

2183
02:02:28,560 --> 02:02:32,280
said and and I'll use a
Strickland line, you know, this

2184
02:02:32,280 --> 02:02:35,440
isn't a battleship pulling up to
Congress saying we want this law

2185
02:02:35,440 --> 02:02:38,200
dropped.
This is, you know, a few canoes.

2186
02:02:38,520 --> 02:02:41,200
You know, there's only a couple
of companies selling laser light

2187
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:44,840
fixtures right now and you know,
you don't have a lot of support

2188
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:46,520
on it.
You don't have a big industry

2189
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:49,720
behind you that's going, you
know, we need this changed right

2190
02:02:49,720 --> 02:02:51,560
now.
But it is comical.

2191
02:02:51,560 --> 02:02:55,600
It's nonsense and and well.
And I respect it, you know, and

2192
02:02:55,600 --> 02:02:58,400
I'll use this example on the big
aviation buff.

2193
02:02:58,400 --> 02:03:01,680
And like everybody else, you
know, when I've been on a plane

2194
02:03:01,680 --> 02:03:05,960
and a crew is timed out because
of weather delays and, you know,

2195
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:09,000
I get to miss my flight because
the crew timed out, I will

2196
02:03:09,000 --> 02:03:10,440
grumble about it.
But you know what?

2197
02:03:10,640 --> 02:03:14,800
Somebody at the FAA or the NTSB
is trying to keep me alive by

2198
02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:18,960
making sure that a pilot doesn't
fly 17 hours to get me from A to

2199
02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:22,200
B.
And I respect, you know, I

2200
02:03:22,200 --> 02:03:24,480
respect it.
Let's err on the side of safety.

2201
02:03:24,720 --> 02:03:27,520
No, but it's a it's typical of
of our government though you

2202
02:03:27,520 --> 02:03:30,520
know it's it's a good thought
but there's no common sense

2203
02:03:30,520 --> 02:03:33,400
applied to it.
So you know the original thought

2204
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:37,400
was authentic and good and and
and well meaning and all of that

2205
02:03:37,400 --> 02:03:39,560
stuff.
But there's just no common sense

2206
02:03:39,560 --> 02:03:42,720
applied and and you know that's
what's usually lacking in

2207
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:45,320
government is common sense
coming up around the back and

2208
02:03:45,320 --> 02:03:47,120
going OK let me check some boxes
here.

2209
02:03:47,120 --> 02:03:48,920
You know, is there common sense
here?

2210
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:52,280
Like, does this still make sense
to to have lasers in a video

2211
02:03:52,280 --> 02:03:56,320
projector that are more powerful
than the lasers in this light

2212
02:03:56,320 --> 02:03:59,000
fixture and the light fixture is
not allowed to be used?

2213
02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:01,480
But the So anyways, whatever
we're.

2214
02:04:01,520 --> 02:04:03,280
Yeah, no, I get it.
I get it.

2215
02:04:04,720 --> 02:04:09,360
And I guess what I'm proud of
is, and you mentioned the

2216
02:04:09,360 --> 02:04:13,760
Italians, what I'm really proud
of is they basically the

2217
02:04:13,760 --> 02:04:17,080
engineers just sort of said, OK,
what do we have to do here?

2218
02:04:17,120 --> 02:04:20,440
Let's do this right.
And I'm really proud of the fact

2219
02:04:20,440 --> 02:04:23,640
that they didn't ever try to put
me in a position.

2220
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:26,840
They said let's find out what
the rules are, let's play by the

2221
02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:29,840
rules and, you know, let's
adhere to what the FDA and the

2222
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:32,400
FA are telling us.
And we've done that.

2223
02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:35,600
And the nice thing is, again,
like the delayed flight, I can

2224
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:38,640
get frustrated with it, but at
least I know we're doing the

2225
02:04:38,640 --> 02:04:40,680
best we can to adhere what the
rules are.

2226
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:43,720
And and you know that where we
are.

2227
02:04:44,200 --> 02:04:48,120
The other thing is everybody,
all the manufacturers that are

2228
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,800
trying to do this in the US,
they're going to be under the

2229
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:53,640
same rules we are.
So to be fair, it is a level

2230
02:04:53,640 --> 02:04:56,920
playing field.
The FAA is not going to tell any

2231
02:04:56,920 --> 02:04:59,480
of the other companies anything
different than they've told us.

2232
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:05,240
Yeah, yeah, What is your what's
your title and and your basic

2233
02:05:05,240 --> 02:05:07,080
role today?
So are you like designer

2234
02:05:07,080 --> 02:05:11,960
relations for the most part?
Or Business Development Manager

2235
02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:16,200
is the official Ari title.
I I actually, I'm an Ari

2236
02:05:16,200 --> 02:05:19,080
employee that works for Clay
Packie because you know Ari

2237
02:05:19,080 --> 02:05:24,960
purchased the and that became
final last March which has been

2238
02:05:24,960 --> 02:05:26,760
awesome.
Yeah, I was going to ask you,

2239
02:05:26,760 --> 02:05:29,760
did that change anything or?
Not just lip service, they they

2240
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:31,400
really are a tremendous group of
people.

2241
02:05:33,440 --> 02:05:36,560
Yeah, it was inspirational.
It didn't, it was, you know,

2242
02:05:36,600 --> 02:05:39,840
Ostrum was great and I truly
mean this Ostrum was awesome.

2243
02:05:40,120 --> 02:05:43,920
Ari is is even more amazing in
the sense, very supportive.

2244
02:05:44,400 --> 02:05:49,360
It's a smart company and it's
very connected to it's it's very

2245
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:51,400
connected to exactly what we're
doing.

2246
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:54,120
I'm sorry, my apologies, my
phone was ringing in on my

2247
02:05:54,120 --> 02:05:56,600
computer.
It's very connected to what

2248
02:05:56,600 --> 02:05:58,680
we're doing in the sense that
there are you know lighting and

2249
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:03,120
camera company.
So the the businesses are truly

2250
02:06:03,120 --> 02:06:05,960
closely aligned.
Austin was a huge company that

2251
02:06:05,960 --> 02:06:11,000
had a lighting division, right.
Ari is a lighting and and camera

2252
02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:13,880
company.
That's all they do and.

2253
02:06:13,880 --> 02:06:15,640
I think there's some.
Tremendous.

2254
02:06:16,280 --> 02:06:18,240
Well, yes.
And there's some tremendous

2255
02:06:18,240 --> 02:06:20,320
areas.
What's cool to me and it really

2256
02:06:20,320 --> 02:06:23,520
isn't marketing lip service.
They do stuff that's totally

2257
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:25,840
different than what we do, but
it's just as cool and

2258
02:06:25,840 --> 02:06:30,120
revolutionary and we're the same
way in the other direction.

2259
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:32,200
We can learn a lot from each
other.

2260
02:06:33,040 --> 02:06:37,880
The potential for what is able
to come out of our buildings

2261
02:06:38,400 --> 02:06:41,160
with this alignment is pretty
cool, I mean.

2262
02:06:41,160 --> 02:06:42,160
Oh, I would think so.
Yeah.

2263
02:06:42,160 --> 02:06:45,800
What what would an automated sky
panel be like, You know, I mean

2264
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:50,280
those kind of things I think are
are really interesting now

2265
02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:53,920
that's so that's.
Well, and and also mixing, you

2266
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:56,360
know, some camera technology and
with automated lighting

2267
02:06:56,360 --> 02:06:59,080
technology and stuff like that,
that's.

2268
02:06:59,520 --> 02:07:03,120
Common.
When the when the television

2269
02:07:03,120 --> 02:07:07,120
strike and and or the writers
strike or whatever happened, did

2270
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:10,320
did they just put shit tons of
pressure on you to try and make

2271
02:07:10,320 --> 02:07:13,120
up those sales that they've lost
or or.

2272
02:07:13,200 --> 02:07:17,800
Well, I think I the cool thing
is I don't think anybody and in

2273
02:07:17,800 --> 02:07:19,960
this we went through this with
Ashram as well because Ashram

2274
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:22,040
was awesome to us during the
pandemic.

2275
02:07:22,360 --> 02:07:24,880
Ashram my understanding was
Ashram was very successful

2276
02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:27,600
during the pandemic.
So the little tiny corner of

2277
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:31,880
Ashram that was us you know
benefited from that success.

2278
02:07:32,360 --> 02:07:35,920
You know there was a lot more
DIY stuff going on and and LE DS

2279
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:37,920
being sold so people could redo
their homes.

2280
02:07:38,320 --> 02:07:42,200
So those things are going well.
I I I have to say I think we

2281
02:07:42,200 --> 02:07:46,880
felt like let's try to be a team
man let's see if we can help

2282
02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:51,360
these folks and and you know
let's all work together very

2283
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:56,240
quickly it felt like a team
thing and you know live concerts

2284
02:07:56,240 --> 02:07:59,640
were back so let's try to do
what we can to to help out our

2285
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:04,880
RE colleagues I think they they
you know I we just we all

2286
02:08:04,880 --> 02:08:08,720
started rowing together but if
you know man you'd go out to LA

2287
02:08:09,320 --> 02:08:11,800
it was weird.
I mean, I, you know, I don't

2288
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:16,000
consider myself ATV or film
experienced person, but I have a

2289
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:18,720
lot of friends in that business
and you talk to those people and

2290
02:08:18,720 --> 02:08:23,680
it was tough, you know.
So that's one of the things I

2291
02:08:23,680 --> 02:08:27,600
love about our industry is I'm
sure any industry is like this,

2292
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:29,520
but there is that communal
sense.

2293
02:08:29,520 --> 02:08:33,240
There is you know, and you can
be a salesperson, you can be an

2294
02:08:33,240 --> 02:08:35,000
engineer.
I've experienced this for the

2295
02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:37,840
engineers.
That whole show must go on.

2296
02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:43,720
Attitude that is ingrained in us
in our business is one of the

2297
02:08:43,720 --> 02:08:45,240
things I think I'm most proud
about.

2298
02:08:45,240 --> 02:08:51,720
Working for this industry is
man, I can be the show today and

2299
02:08:51,720 --> 02:08:55,080
if it started to rain and you
know somebody's tarp came down,

2300
02:08:55,240 --> 02:08:58,360
I'd be right up there probably
with you and the catering person

2301
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:01,440
and you know we'd be trying to
keep those sound amps from

2302
02:09:01,440 --> 02:09:05,240
getting wet because that's what
you do at a gig man.

2303
02:09:05,240 --> 02:09:10,200
I love that I, I right like
that's that is that is why I got

2304
02:09:10,200 --> 02:09:13,040
into this.
You know, and and I'm sure

2305
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:16,120
people in other industries have
that, but I don't think I've

2306
02:09:16,120 --> 02:09:20,400
ever felt and strongly as I do
in the entertainment industry.

2307
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:22,480
Yeah.
And I don't know how much you

2308
02:09:22,480 --> 02:09:26,080
can you can talk about this, but
you know I'm, I'm very friendly

2309
02:09:26,080 --> 02:09:29,440
with the guys from Inner Circle,
you know, really good guys and

2310
02:09:29,440 --> 02:09:32,200
stuff.
As I understand it's sort of

2311
02:09:32,200 --> 02:09:36,000
like a sales and marketing
partnership.

2312
02:09:36,000 --> 02:09:38,920
It's not really a distribution
partnership like the inventory

2313
02:09:38,920 --> 02:09:41,600
is still with Clay Paki, right,
for the most.

2314
02:09:41,600 --> 02:09:43,120
Part.
No, no.

2315
02:09:43,120 --> 02:09:46,440
My understanding is it's fully,
it's fully fleshed out.

2316
02:09:47,040 --> 02:09:50,720
I mean there's a lot of gear
down in Davie, FL and I haven't

2317
02:09:50,720 --> 02:09:52,960
spoken much about all that
because it's a pretty new

2318
02:09:52,960 --> 02:09:55,560
relationship that started in
June of last year.

2319
02:09:57,200 --> 02:10:00,280
But you know, it's funny that
you mentioned that just after my

2320
02:10:00,280 --> 02:10:04,880
previous comment, man, that's a
show must go on kind of place.

2321
02:10:04,960 --> 02:10:08,520
I mean Gary Mask, you know I
mean you spend 30 seconds

2322
02:10:08,520 --> 02:10:12,440
talking to Gary in his office
and the show must go on.

2323
02:10:12,440 --> 02:10:16,280
That's what Gary came from and
that whole team, Craig and

2324
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:24,960
Filippo, you know really a group
of people that I've I didn't

2325
02:10:25,400 --> 02:10:32,000
again you know any these guys
really and it's been very cool.

2326
02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:33,400
It's been eye opening and very
cool.

2327
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:36,080
But you know my understanding is
it's fully fledged.

2328
02:10:36,080 --> 02:10:38,480
I mean they it is, yeah they
are.

2329
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:42,440
I have distributors, America.
I I haven't actually talked to

2330
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:44,320
them.
I think I think we're doing a

2331
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:46,520
podcast with them in a couple
weeks or something.

2332
02:10:47,880 --> 02:10:53,840
I haven't talked to them and but
I I someone told me and I can't

2333
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:57,520
even remember who or or what
context or anything but that it

2334
02:10:57,520 --> 02:11:01,520
was more of a a sales agreement
like where they were basically

2335
02:11:01,520 --> 02:11:05,440
the US sales agent not not the
US distributor like service and

2336
02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:07,960
and stock was still handled by
Ari or.

2337
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:09,480
Clay.
Oh, no, they do all that.

2338
02:11:09,480 --> 02:11:12,200
No they do all of that.
They do all that.

2339
02:11:12,360 --> 02:11:15,680
I I, I I feel like I'm sort of
the lone man and I am the only

2340
02:11:15,680 --> 02:11:19,320
person in North America that's a
Ari Klepaki employee.

2341
02:11:20,320 --> 02:11:23,800
No, it's full they they they
have a service team that's

2342
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:26,120
growing.
Yeah absolutely no service and

2343
02:11:26,120 --> 02:11:30,840
support all that comes from them
based the Davie FL.

2344
02:11:30,840 --> 02:11:33,880
What's been interesting to me
about it and I I really hadn't

2345
02:11:33,880 --> 02:11:35,840
even thought about this until it
came up.

2346
02:11:37,120 --> 02:11:40,800
They have some different people
that they reach.

2347
02:11:40,800 --> 02:11:44,680
You know, Estera is a great
example, wildly successful

2348
02:11:44,680 --> 02:11:46,200
product.
You talked about the Sharpie,

2349
02:11:46,440 --> 02:11:49,080
you know, my God, Estera, you
know, that's been awesome for

2350
02:11:49,080 --> 02:11:52,560
them.
And what's cool for me is there

2351
02:11:52,560 --> 02:11:56,120
are people that they reach
through Estera that I would

2352
02:11:56,120 --> 02:11:59,400
never get in front of.
And if I go out with some of

2353
02:11:59,400 --> 02:12:03,440
their sales guys, their sales
team, I'm getting to meet people

2354
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:08,240
that I never met because they're
committed to Estera and they're

2355
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:10,840
highly potential Clay Packy
customers.

2356
02:12:11,160 --> 02:12:13,760
And there's been this kind of
cross pollination that's

2357
02:12:13,760 --> 02:12:18,600
happened because of inner.
Circle that's been that's always

2358
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:21,240
the benefit of having a
distributor like that who has

2359
02:12:21,360 --> 02:12:23,760
multiple product lines.
I've heard it explained the

2360
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:26,320
opposite way, which is no,
they're just gonna be distracted

2361
02:12:26,320 --> 02:12:28,680
because they have.
But I've always been on that

2362
02:12:28,680 --> 02:12:32,440
distributor side and that always
works like that.

2363
02:12:32,440 --> 02:12:35,280
Like there's always doorways
open from over here for this

2364
02:12:35,280 --> 02:12:38,600
product over here or from over
here for this product over here

2365
02:12:38,600 --> 02:12:40,800
or whatever.
Like, there's always that sort

2366
02:12:40,800 --> 02:12:45,320
of, you know, hey, well, have
you thought about adding some of

2367
02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:46,800
these?
You know, would you like fries

2368
02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:48,640
with that cheeseburger or
whatever, Right.

2369
02:12:48,640 --> 02:12:53,560
So no, there's there's always
that kind of.

2370
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:56,040
Stuff the tie to what you said
earlier, Your advice to your

2371
02:12:56,040 --> 02:12:58,440
son.
I will say this to you.

2372
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:03,160
I've met more people that I
didn't know in the last nine

2373
02:13:03,160 --> 02:13:07,880
months than I have probably in
the last five years because of

2374
02:13:07,880 --> 02:13:12,600
Ari and Inner Circle, all these
people in television and film

2375
02:13:12,640 --> 02:13:16,120
that I could never encountered
because you know, again, we're

2376
02:13:16,120 --> 02:13:18,360
all busy doing concert tours or
this or that.

2377
02:13:19,120 --> 02:13:22,720
And the same way with Inner
Circle through their sales team.

2378
02:13:22,720 --> 02:13:27,440
And again, Gary Nolan, Filippo,
that group of people, what's

2379
02:13:27,480 --> 02:13:30,160
awesome to me, it's a little
scary, but it's awesome.

2380
02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:33,000
They know all these people that
I've never met.

2381
02:13:33,480 --> 02:13:37,120
And like you said to your son,
man, that's opportunity at your

2382
02:13:37,120 --> 02:13:39,280
front door.
Hell yeah, for for all of us.

2383
02:13:39,320 --> 02:13:40,720
You.
Know well this is a small

2384
02:13:40,720 --> 02:13:42,640
industry and there's some major
players in it.

2385
02:13:42,640 --> 02:13:45,880
And I mean you have to
constantly be looking to widen

2386
02:13:45,880 --> 02:13:49,320
your market as much as you can.
And you know the customer that

2387
02:13:49,320 --> 02:13:52,360
might be your biggest customer
today, tomorrow may cut a deal

2388
02:13:52,360 --> 02:13:56,240
with Acme and become you know
the largest Acme rental house in

2389
02:13:56,240 --> 02:13:58,240
the United States next month or
whatever.

2390
02:13:58,760 --> 02:14:00,560
I mean it's it's a weird
business.

2391
02:14:00,560 --> 02:14:03,400
You know you you just have to
take really great care of people

2392
02:14:03,640 --> 02:14:06,000
and you have to keep your eyes
open for opportunity all the

2393
02:14:06,000 --> 02:14:09,600
time And you know if you do the
right things chances are you're

2394
02:14:09,600 --> 02:14:13,480
going to be pretty successful.
So you know, and you've done a

2395
02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:17,440
lot of that.
I if you I don't know how this

2396
02:14:17,440 --> 02:14:20,480
works I I don't know if you've
done multiple heads in this

2397
02:14:21,240 --> 02:14:25,120
groups of geezers but I'll tell
you a group of geezers that

2398
02:14:25,120 --> 02:14:29,040
might be really interesting
would be the guys from ICD and

2399
02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:34,320
boy believe me I I believe Craig
Craig and and and and Gary have

2400
02:14:34,320 --> 02:14:38,000
been friends you know forever so
you know I.

2401
02:14:39,840 --> 02:14:42,240
Yeah, I know.
Maybe that will group together.

2402
02:14:42,240 --> 02:14:46,320
I've known those guys for since
at the beginning of their

2403
02:14:46,320 --> 02:14:51,960
entrance into the industry and
I've worked with a couple of

2404
02:14:51,960 --> 02:14:57,080
them at different times as well.
And yes, the doors always been

2405
02:14:57,080 --> 02:14:59,080
open for them to come on the
podcast.

2406
02:14:59,960 --> 02:15:03,320
You know, I think that's
probably going to happen in the

2407
02:15:03,320 --> 02:15:06,240
next couple of months, I'm not
sure, but it'll probably happen

2408
02:15:06,240 --> 02:15:09,680
in the next couple of months.
And yeah, I'd love to do it.

2409
02:15:09,680 --> 02:15:11,040
I mean they've been very
successful.

2410
02:15:11,040 --> 02:15:14,200
I'm proud of what they've built.
They've they've, they've done

2411
02:15:14,200 --> 02:15:15,920
the right things and worked
really hard.

2412
02:15:15,920 --> 02:15:17,560
And again, that usually pays
off.

2413
02:15:17,560 --> 02:15:20,480
It's paid off for you.
It for most of my career it's

2414
02:15:20,480 --> 02:15:22,360
paid off for me.
It's certainly paid off for

2415
02:15:22,360 --> 02:15:25,200
those guys.
And that's a great thing.

2416
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:28,960
I was actually going to ask you
sort of my final question was

2417
02:15:28,960 --> 02:15:31,920
going to be who would you like
to see me get on gazes of gear,

2418
02:15:31,920 --> 02:15:35,680
who we haven't yet.
And you know, I love bringing on

2419
02:15:35,680 --> 02:15:38,040
designers.
I love bringing on front of

2420
02:15:38,040 --> 02:15:40,880
house engineers, production
managers.

2421
02:15:42,280 --> 02:15:45,920
Any thoughts?
Give me a name.

2422
02:15:47,520 --> 02:15:51,520
Yeah, there's a million.
I certainly I should correct.

2423
02:15:51,600 --> 02:15:54,360
Null actually Null and Gary I
believe have been friends since

2424
02:15:54,360 --> 02:15:57,680
childhood and you know, if
you've got like with that group,

2425
02:15:57,680 --> 02:16:01,800
if you could get the ICD group
and as many of the heads that

2426
02:16:01,800 --> 02:16:04,920
would fit in, you know,
Philippe, I mean, I think it'd

2427
02:16:04,920 --> 02:16:08,360
be a really interesting I don't
know, you might not get a word

2428
02:16:08,360 --> 02:16:12,640
in edgewise, but I think it'd be
really fascinating to get that

2429
02:16:12,920 --> 02:16:13,920
it has been for.
Me.

2430
02:16:14,480 --> 02:16:16,560
I can shut that.
Yeah, you're in control of the

2431
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:19,680
content.
Have you had Bob Barnhart on?

2432
02:16:19,840 --> 02:16:20,560
Forgive me, I.
Don't.

2433
02:16:20,720 --> 02:16:22,680
Have you had Bob Barnhart?
I think I've had him twice.

2434
02:16:23,680 --> 02:16:24,880
Yeah, I think I've had.
I have.

2435
02:16:24,960 --> 02:16:28,440
Learned so much from Bob.
That's amazing because he's just

2436
02:16:28,440 --> 02:16:30,480
got a great.
Personality.

2437
02:16:30,480 --> 02:16:33,719
He's fun to talk to, you know?
And I'm Dick.

2438
02:16:33,719 --> 02:16:39,320
And I tell you, man, so those
are kind of the, the core names

2439
02:16:39,760 --> 02:16:41,920
of people that are are
interesting.

2440
02:16:43,280 --> 02:16:50,160
You know, Mark Brickman again is
somebody who, I mean I've been

2441
02:16:50,160 --> 02:16:54,000
at some dinners with Mark Rippon
and there have been some very,

2442
02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:57,760
very famous people at the table
and Mark is still everybody at

2443
02:16:57,760 --> 02:16:59,799
the table would agree that Mark
is still the most interesting

2444
02:16:59,799 --> 02:17:01,480
person.
He's super interesting.

2445
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:04,240
He is.
And very knowledgeable and and

2446
02:17:04,240 --> 02:17:06,920
very creative.
And you know, I love that guy.

2447
02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:09,760
I really, really like Mark
Brickman a lot.

2448
02:17:09,959 --> 02:17:13,559
You know, fortunately for me,
like this is probably the the

2449
02:17:13,559 --> 02:17:17,120
worst paying but coolest thing
that I've ever done in my

2450
02:17:17,120 --> 02:17:20,240
career.
Because you're #215.

2451
02:17:20,240 --> 02:17:25,280
I've had 214 other podcasts
where I've gotten to talk to one

2452
02:17:25,280 --> 02:17:29,200
or more people, most of whom
I've invited on the podcast

2453
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:31,600
because I think they're really
interesting and I think I'd

2454
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:34,400
really love to learn more about
them and have a conversation

2455
02:17:34,400 --> 02:17:36,920
with them, Not because they're
paying me to be on the podcast

2456
02:17:36,920 --> 02:17:40,280
or paying me to promote their
business or or their career or

2457
02:17:40,280 --> 02:17:43,639
whatever.
So I love doing this.

2458
02:17:43,639 --> 02:17:46,760
Like, I love having these
conversations and bringing

2459
02:17:46,760 --> 02:17:48,680
stories out of people.
It's super.

2460
02:17:48,680 --> 02:17:49,840
Fun.
I can see why.

2461
02:17:50,280 --> 02:17:52,280
Yeah, to tie it up.
I to tie it up.

2462
02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:55,639
I mean, to put a period on it, I
think it really goes back to,

2463
02:17:55,760 --> 02:17:58,280
you know, the greatest thing
about our industry.

2464
02:17:58,719 --> 02:18:01,240
And it's not just the rock
stars, It's certainly how it

2465
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:03,000
starts.
You know, you think, oh, I'd,

2466
02:18:03,080 --> 02:18:05,320
I'd love to be in the same room
with, you know, the members of

2467
02:18:05,320 --> 02:18:08,280
Fleetwood Mac.
And that's all cool.

2468
02:18:08,520 --> 02:18:13,240
But, and I think you'd agree
with this, the opportunities to

2469
02:18:13,240 --> 02:18:17,680
be in the same room, to be at
the same table with some of the

2470
02:18:17,680 --> 02:18:21,000
amazing people that you and I
have met, especially the other

2471
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:24,799
214 guests, you just have to
pinch yourself.

2472
02:18:24,840 --> 02:18:28,920
You're like, I can't believe
that I'm getting to hear, you

2473
02:18:28,920 --> 02:18:32,920
know, from this designer or this
artist or, you know, we're

2474
02:18:32,920 --> 02:18:36,320
having a dinner or a drink and
they're sharing part of their

2475
02:18:36,320 --> 02:18:40,600
history.
Man, I was a kid from Cleveland,

2476
02:18:40,600 --> 02:18:45,080
you know, And just to be in the
room with people like yourself,

2477
02:18:45,080 --> 02:18:50,200
you know any of these folks,
man, that was beyond a career.

2478
02:18:50,440 --> 02:18:55,639
So you know the Doc McGee
podcast that I did, I had, I had

2479
02:18:55,639 --> 02:18:58,959
just seen the Dirt and the
Mötley Crüe movie.

2480
02:18:59,480 --> 02:19:03,160
And so I asked Doc McGee, I said
what was the real reason that

2481
02:19:03,160 --> 02:19:09,400
Mötley Crüe fired you?
And and he told me and you know,

2482
02:19:09,400 --> 02:19:11,559
it had nothing to do with what
was on the movie.

2483
02:19:12,040 --> 02:19:14,480
Like he started basically
telling me the parts of the

2484
02:19:14,480 --> 02:19:17,719
movie that were bullshit and
that were made-up and the parts

2485
02:19:17,719 --> 02:19:19,959
that were really well done and
we're really good.

2486
02:19:20,440 --> 02:19:24,600
And you know, like, I don't know
if you remember the Did you see

2487
02:19:24,600 --> 02:19:32,160
that movie, The Dirt?
Yeah, you know, I'm fascinated

2488
02:19:32,160 --> 02:19:35,120
by that band.
Some of that is pretty tough to

2489
02:19:35,120 --> 02:19:38,160
watch.
I don't think I've made it all

2490
02:19:38,160 --> 02:19:41,920
the way through, yeah.
It's actually a fun movie just

2491
02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:46,320
from a standpoint of just, you
know, the the crazy debauchery

2492
02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:49,200
that that happened.
And you know, there's one scene

2493
02:19:49,200 --> 02:19:53,040
in it though, where Doc McGee,
their manager, is standing there

2494
02:19:53,040 --> 02:19:57,880
at a motel and he's standing at
the railing on the balcony of

2495
02:19:57,880 --> 02:20:02,320
this motel and he's looking down
and it's complete debauchery.

2496
02:20:02,320 --> 02:20:05,680
Like somebody just took a dump
in the pool and there's just bad

2497
02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:08,320
things happening all over the
place and.

2498
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:13,360
He looks at the camera and he
goes, I've managed Bon Jovi and

2499
02:20:13,360 --> 02:20:16,960
Skid Row and he's listing all
these bands, but nothing,

2500
02:20:17,360 --> 02:20:20,760
nothing prepared me for this,
you know?

2501
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:25,440
And he's Yeah, he's right, yeah.
It's it's.

2502
02:20:26,880 --> 02:20:30,720
And you know it.
Honestly, again, kind of like I

2503
02:20:30,800 --> 02:20:33,760
was saying about Jules Belkin,
you know, Doc McGee and Doug

2504
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:35,600
Thayerman, those guys were
legends.

2505
02:20:35,600 --> 02:20:39,280
I mean I knew those names early
on, before I'd even done any big

2506
02:20:39,280 --> 02:20:42,400
shows because he was like he
said he was managing.

2507
02:20:42,400 --> 02:20:44,560
I think Scorpion Fair was doing
Scorpion.

2508
02:20:44,560 --> 02:20:48,160
I mean they had everybody in a
window there.

2509
02:20:48,560 --> 02:20:50,240
You know they were probably, you
know they were probably

2510
02:20:50,240 --> 02:20:53,000
responsible for half the tickets
that were being sold in America

2511
02:20:53,440 --> 02:20:57,160
on any given night.
And what's fascinating, I need,

2512
02:20:57,160 --> 02:20:59,920
I'll go back, I need to watch
your your conversation with a

2513
02:20:59,920 --> 02:21:03,000
lot of these folks.
But I want to see that one

2514
02:21:03,000 --> 02:21:07,120
because man, just keeping your
hand on the tiller during all

2515
02:21:07,120 --> 02:21:11,200
that, you know, somebody
somebody had to carry the brain

2516
02:21:12,200 --> 02:21:14,200
and and get everybody through
it.

2517
02:21:14,200 --> 02:21:17,400
And and you know, honestly I
can't obviously speak to any of

2518
02:21:17,400 --> 02:21:20,480
the details but the fact that
those guys are all still here,

2519
02:21:20,880 --> 02:21:22,560
that's unreal, you know, means
not.

2520
02:21:22,560 --> 02:21:23,600
I mean, we've.
Got a bunch.

2521
02:21:23,760 --> 02:21:27,280
Of responsible for a lot of
that. 20 year old, 22 year old

2522
02:21:27,640 --> 02:21:31,200
rock stars who suddenly have a
shit ton of money and a license

2523
02:21:31,200 --> 02:21:34,080
to do whatever the hell they
want, including throwing

2524
02:21:34,080 --> 02:21:37,560
furniture out the windows,
ordering cocaine from room

2525
02:21:37,560 --> 02:21:40,480
service.
You know, bringing as many girls

2526
02:21:40,480 --> 02:21:43,640
into the room as they can fit in
the room and you know, just

2527
02:21:43,640 --> 02:21:47,040
crazy, crazy stuff.
Whatever they can invent, they

2528
02:21:47,040 --> 02:21:51,440
can have, right?
And you know, trying to be the,

2529
02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:56,680
the circus ringleader of that
circus is I can't even imagine

2530
02:21:56,680 --> 02:21:59,880
being in that position and
babysitting, you know, rock

2531
02:21:59,880 --> 02:22:03,080
stars like that.
It's it's an incredible talent

2532
02:22:03,080 --> 02:22:06,640
that I guess is reserved for the
few not.

2533
02:22:06,640 --> 02:22:09,920
Me well, and I tell students,
you know, and I'm sure you

2534
02:22:09,960 --> 02:22:15,880
you've heard this before you a
lot more of this job is about

2535
02:22:15,880 --> 02:22:18,040
things that have nothing to do
with lighting than you would

2536
02:22:18,040 --> 02:22:19,520
think.
You know, and I'm sure your

2537
02:22:19,520 --> 02:22:22,920
designers will always tell you
that it's it's it's, you know,

2538
02:22:22,920 --> 02:22:25,440
working with the artist, it's
placating the artist.

2539
02:22:25,440 --> 02:22:29,440
It's it's helping the artist
trust you, you know, all these

2540
02:22:29,440 --> 02:22:31,800
things that they don't really
teach you in theater, lighting,

2541
02:22:31,800 --> 02:22:35,200
school and it's it's huge, you
know?

2542
02:22:35,360 --> 02:22:40,680
You know what, going back to our
racing shared passion, so you

2543
02:22:40,680 --> 02:22:43,600
know it's no different.
Like drivers who think that all

2544
02:22:43,600 --> 02:22:46,680
they have to do is drive the car
and that's going to carry them

2545
02:22:46,680 --> 02:22:49,960
through their career.
It it's everything else that

2546
02:22:49,960 --> 02:22:52,720
carries you, you know, certainly
when you get to the Formula One

2547
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:56,480
level, if you drive well enough,
you can blow off interviews, you

2548
02:22:56,480 --> 02:22:58,880
can blow off some of the media
things that you're supposed to

2549
02:22:58,880 --> 02:23:01,760
do or the hospitality things or
whatever.

2550
02:23:01,760 --> 02:23:04,760
Like if you're Max Verstappen
you can get away with a lot.

2551
02:23:05,160 --> 02:23:09,720
But getting there, it's all
about like and and one last

2552
02:23:09,720 --> 02:23:12,880
story.
So my son actually it was

2553
02:23:12,880 --> 02:23:19,040
probably 11 years ago this week
or last week my son was in a

2554
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:23,520
race at Daytona CART race and
it's it's international cart

2555
02:23:23,520 --> 02:23:28,960
week they call it and it was his
first mega mega win like he he

2556
02:23:28,960 --> 02:23:31,640
basically swept the entire
weekend qualified pole.

2557
02:23:31,640 --> 02:23:34,800
Congratulations.
Won all the races both days

2558
02:23:35,040 --> 02:23:40,040
complete sweep and but that
weekend one of the people he ran

2559
02:23:40,040 --> 02:23:47,440
into was Allmendinger and so
Allmendinger did a little Q&A

2560
02:23:47,440 --> 02:23:50,680
session for some of these young
drivers and one of the kids who

2561
02:23:50,680 --> 02:23:53,600
was older than my son, my son
was eight and one of the guys

2562
02:23:53,600 --> 02:23:57,760
was like probably 14 or 15 he
might have even been 17 because

2563
02:23:57,760 --> 02:24:00,640
he was talking about college.
He said you know look I'm I'm

2564
02:24:00,840 --> 02:24:05,480
thinking about going to college
and I want, you know, I I'm

2565
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:07,720
still going to continue my
driving career.

2566
02:24:08,160 --> 02:24:12,560
What kind of courses should I
take that will help me in my

2567
02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:16,760
driving career And everybody was
myself included, expecting you

2568
02:24:16,760 --> 02:24:21,120
know engineering and and you
know physics or or you know

2569
02:24:21,680 --> 02:24:22,840
stuff like that.
Right.

2570
02:24:22,960 --> 02:24:28,440
But he said marketing and PR and
and everyone went, huh.

2571
02:24:29,280 --> 02:24:33,080
And he said, you know 20% of
your time is going to be spent

2572
02:24:33,080 --> 02:24:36,120
driving the car.
The other 80% of your time is

2573
02:24:36,120 --> 02:24:39,680
going to be spent either trying
to find money for sponsorship

2574
02:24:39,920 --> 02:24:42,480
trying to find a ride in one of
the teams.

2575
02:24:42,760 --> 02:24:45,280
You know, trying to impress
someone so that you get an

2576
02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:48,240
opportunity.
Marketing and PR you're

2577
02:24:48,360 --> 02:24:52,120
constantly selling.
Yourself and AJ is a great

2578
02:24:52,120 --> 02:24:54,040
example of that.
I mean, he's somebody that's had

2579
02:24:54,040 --> 02:24:58,000
to deal with both the good and
the bad of that, in my opinion,

2580
02:24:58,000 --> 02:25:00,640
he's risen mightily to the
occasion.

2581
02:25:00,880 --> 02:25:04,080
And as you know, the other thing
that helps AJ is he's one and

2582
02:25:04,080 --> 02:25:05,400
everything he's ever gotten
into.

2583
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:09,520
Yeah, I mean the guy was, he was
a rock star in those CART cars.

2584
02:25:09,520 --> 02:25:12,880
And man, those things were for
real and different from the CART

2585
02:25:12,880 --> 02:25:14,240
series.
No, I'm not.

2586
02:25:14,280 --> 02:25:17,240
I'm talking about.
Yeah those were fire breathing

2587
02:25:17,280 --> 02:25:19,360
vehicles.
What's your when you talk racing

2588
02:25:19,560 --> 02:25:21,680
for the next 10 hours I'm sure
What's your series?

2589
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:26,360
You know what my response to
that question is?

2590
02:25:27,080 --> 02:25:31,600
Is 1.
My wife will tell you I'd watch

2591
02:25:31,600 --> 02:25:33,320
people race lawn mowers if they
let me.

2592
02:25:34,360 --> 02:25:37,560
But anybody that's willing to
die for my entertainment, I I

2593
02:25:37,560 --> 02:25:39,560
respect their series and I'll go
watch it.

2594
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:42,160
I really truly enjoy all of
them.

2595
02:25:42,880 --> 02:25:48,840
My heart is probably IndyCar.
I I'm, I'm an Indy 500, you

2596
02:25:48,840 --> 02:25:51,400
know, honorary Hoosier kind of
guy.

2597
02:25:52,080 --> 02:25:55,320
I love IndyCar.
And I got to say right now, I

2598
02:25:55,320 --> 02:25:58,280
think the racing there is
probably the most interesting, a

2599
02:25:58,280 --> 02:26:01,360
lot of passing.
You know you can argue that the

2600
02:26:01,360 --> 02:26:04,400
cars at the spec series and all
that, OK, that's fine.

2601
02:26:04,720 --> 02:26:07,600
I've been more interested by
Indy races I've seen over the

2602
02:26:07,600 --> 02:26:09,480
last.
You know, year or so?

2603
02:26:09,480 --> 02:26:13,440
When I have a lot of F1.
And so we raced for two seasons

2604
02:26:13,480 --> 02:26:16,600
in what's called the Road to
Indy, which is basically the

2605
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:21,520
junior levels going up to Indy.
And so we've got a bunch of

2606
02:26:21,520 --> 02:26:25,240
friends in Indy and starting
with Kyle Kirkwood, who who, you

2607
02:26:25,240 --> 02:26:28,280
know is just up the street from
us, and Kyle's dad, Cam, and I

2608
02:26:28,280 --> 02:26:30,600
are very good friends.
We grew up in karting.

2609
02:26:30,800 --> 02:26:35,520
The very first year that my son
started karting, Kyle was I

2610
02:26:35,520 --> 02:26:40,480
think about four or five years
older than my son and we showed

2611
02:26:40,480 --> 02:26:43,240
up at the Palm Beach cart track
and I was talking to his dad

2612
02:26:43,400 --> 02:26:46,480
just about the ropes.
You know cuz Kyle was that much

2613
02:26:46,480 --> 02:26:51,720
further ahead and and Kyle
started doing a little coaching

2614
02:26:51,720 --> 02:26:53,960
with my son and stuff and we've
been friends with that family

2615
02:26:53,960 --> 02:26:57,200
ever since.
But also De Francesco who's

2616
02:26:57,360 --> 02:26:59,960
Canadian family.
I know the the whole family

2617
02:26:59,960 --> 02:27:03,280
really well.
My son raced with with Dylan's

2618
02:27:04,000 --> 02:27:08,200
brother Lockland de Francesco
for a long time.

2619
02:27:08,640 --> 02:27:12,680
Latifi, the younger Latifi, my
my son raced with for a long

2620
02:27:12,680 --> 02:27:16,880
time, Kiffin Simpson, who's
starting this year in IndyCar.

2621
02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:22,320
He did Indy Lights last year or
NXT I guess it was called, but

2622
02:27:22,320 --> 02:27:23,960
he's starting in IndyCar this
year.

2623
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:26,880
So yeah, I mean, these are all
friends of ours that we kind of

2624
02:27:27,040 --> 02:27:30,800
grew up in the system with.
So yeah, I I mean, I believe me,

2625
02:27:30,800 --> 02:27:32,120
I could talk to you about it for
hours.

2626
02:27:32,120 --> 02:27:35,240
I the NASCAR Truck Series is
interesting to me as well

2627
02:27:35,240 --> 02:27:38,000
because it's it's all the best
things I remember about old

2628
02:27:38,000 --> 02:27:40,560
school NASCAR.
You got the young kids trying to

2629
02:27:40,560 --> 02:27:42,520
come up.
You got the old, you know, cadre

2630
02:27:42,520 --> 02:27:47,040
guys, mix of money, mix of
teens, mix of you know, so it's

2631
02:27:47,080 --> 02:27:49,880
it's a it's a crazy soup of
wackiness.

2632
02:27:51,000 --> 02:27:52,160
I don't.
Like, but yeah, I don't like

2633
02:27:52,240 --> 02:27:54,280
NASCAR.
I'm not into the circle track

2634
02:27:54,280 --> 02:27:57,480
stuff and I I don't like, I
don't like the ovals in IndyCar,

2635
02:27:58,000 --> 02:27:58,600
you know?
And again.

2636
02:27:58,600 --> 02:27:59,720
It's interesting.
I get it.

2637
02:27:59,720 --> 02:28:01,520
Give.
Yourself a 19 year old son.

2638
02:28:01,920 --> 02:28:04,840
Give yourself a 19 year old son
and tell me you'd be excited

2639
02:28:04,840 --> 02:28:08,600
about watching him drive around
in circles at 240 miles an hour

2640
02:28:08,600 --> 02:28:09,960
or whatever.
No, I get.

2641
02:28:09,960 --> 02:28:11,680
It yeah, that scares the shit
out of it.

2642
02:28:12,200 --> 02:28:14,400
Yeah, I totally get it.
And you know, there were, I mean

2643
02:28:14,400 --> 02:28:17,800
there were a lot of drivers that
you know, a lot of F1 guys that

2644
02:28:17,800 --> 02:28:20,920
they've talked about coming to
IndyCar and and you know, if you

2645
02:28:20,920 --> 02:28:23,120
have made that jump and they're
like, you know what, not going

2646
02:28:23,120 --> 02:28:25,720
to do the ovals.
And I I don't blame them.

2647
02:28:25,720 --> 02:28:28,160
That place scares me.
I got to tell you, Texas,

2648
02:28:28,320 --> 02:28:32,640
probably even more so than Indy,
man, Texas just makes me

2649
02:28:32,640 --> 02:28:35,000
uncomfortable and it's my home
track, you know, and you see

2650
02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:37,840
Indy cars there.
I mean, God, the cart guys at

2651
02:28:37,840 --> 02:28:41,960
one time I think they were
turning 234 they they canceled

2652
02:28:41,960 --> 02:28:44,640
the car race there and I'm.
Hoping it was the one that

2653
02:28:44,640 --> 02:28:48,080
scared the shit out of me.
Like, what's the Canadian

2654
02:28:48,080 --> 02:28:50,360
driver?
You know when he crashed there a

2655
02:28:50,360 --> 02:28:54,480
few years back and was almost
fully paralyzed and stuff?

2656
02:28:55,320 --> 02:28:57,400
Yeah.
Terrible, terrible story.

2657
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:00,040
And you know, I mean, drivers
have lost their lives there.

2658
02:29:00,040 --> 02:29:04,240
No, Yeah, I I hate it.
And and that's the thing.

2659
02:29:04,240 --> 02:29:07,000
And I'm sure you, more than
anybody with a family member,

2660
02:29:07,680 --> 02:29:10,200
you know, man, I don't want to
go see anybody get hurt, you

2661
02:29:10,200 --> 02:29:12,760
know, And I know it's a
dangerous sport and there's

2662
02:29:12,760 --> 02:29:15,520
inherent risks, and I can handle
that.

2663
02:29:15,760 --> 02:29:19,160
But I don't want to go to a
track where, like, Poconos, man,

2664
02:29:19,160 --> 02:29:23,160
I didn't really even want to
watch anymore, you know, because

2665
02:29:23,360 --> 02:29:26,200
it seemed like every time they
went there, you know, something

2666
02:29:26,200 --> 02:29:28,520
awful happened.
And they were gnarly.

2667
02:29:28,600 --> 02:29:31,320
Justin Wilson got killed there.
Justin.

2668
02:29:31,560 --> 02:29:35,120
Justin Wilson was killed there.
And Canadians are like God.

2669
02:29:35,120 --> 02:29:36,320
I'm trying to remember the guy's
name.

2670
02:29:36,320 --> 02:29:38,880
I know and I know the whole
family because his brother owns

2671
02:29:38,880 --> 02:29:41,880
a karting team that we've done
business with forever and I

2672
02:29:41,880 --> 02:29:43,240
can't even.
Remember their name right now?

2673
02:29:43,680 --> 02:29:47,600
But Welland, Welland is another
one that that like I remember

2674
02:29:47,600 --> 02:29:51,680
because we went to a Kart race
at at Ocala and we just got home

2675
02:29:51,680 --> 02:29:56,160
in time to watch that race in
Vegas where Dan Weldon Weldon,

2676
02:29:56,160 --> 02:30:01,040
Dan Weldon died.
And you know, I mean terrible,

2677
02:30:01,040 --> 02:30:04,960
but my son's really good friends
with his son Sebastian.

2678
02:30:04,960 --> 02:30:07,960
How's his son doing?
Is is because his son has had

2679
02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:11,680
some success, right?
Yeah, I mean, again, the name

2680
02:30:11,680 --> 02:30:14,720
certainly helps.
You know, he's had a lot of help

2681
02:30:14,880 --> 02:30:19,600
along the way, as he should.
His dad was a superstar and but

2682
02:30:19,600 --> 02:30:26,320
he's he's in, I think USF
juniors next year or he's in

2683
02:30:26,320 --> 02:30:29,480
sort of that program moving up
the the ramp Right now he's

2684
02:30:29,480 --> 02:30:31,240
going to end up in IndyCar like
his dad.

2685
02:30:32,160 --> 02:30:35,800
I think he's sponsored either by
Penske or one of the big ones.

2686
02:30:35,800 --> 02:30:39,000
It's either Penske or Andretti,
who he drives for.

2687
02:30:39,400 --> 02:30:43,160
And you know, how did it help?
That stuff's all beneficial,

2688
02:30:43,160 --> 02:30:45,200
I'll tell you.
I mean, the only reason my son's

2689
02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:50,560
not in in IndyCar or F2 or
whatever is because his dad's

2690
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:52,840
not a billionaire.
You know, that's that's just all

2691
02:30:52,840 --> 02:30:54,760
there is to it.
It's it's so.

2692
02:30:55,080 --> 02:30:57,400
So hard to make.
It through that right now

2693
02:30:57,400 --> 02:31:03,080
without money.
That's the one thing that you

2694
02:31:03,080 --> 02:31:06,440
know, unlike rock'n'roll or
rock'n'roll lighting or any of

2695
02:31:06,440 --> 02:31:10,360
these things, you can still, you
know, you can still make it in

2696
02:31:10,360 --> 02:31:14,280
our industry with no money and a
lot of talent.

2697
02:31:14,280 --> 02:31:17,320
And I I that was a realization
why I really started falling

2698
02:31:17,320 --> 02:31:23,160
racing closely, man.
I mean, there are very few Lewis

2699
02:31:23,160 --> 02:31:25,760
Hamilton's out there and I don't
know what Hamilton's backing

2700
02:31:25,760 --> 02:31:27,880
was.
I don't think McLaren, I don't

2701
02:31:27,880 --> 02:31:31,360
think Lewis, no, no, you know,
But at like 10 years old, he was

2702
02:31:31,360 --> 02:31:34,720
able to, yeah, he was able to
make that connection.

2703
02:31:35,680 --> 02:31:38,320
And you know, you hear about the
pay drivers and some of that

2704
02:31:38,320 --> 02:31:42,480
stuff and man, I part of the
field in IndyCar now.

2705
02:31:42,960 --> 02:31:44,760
That's a large part of the field
in IndyCar.

2706
02:31:44,760 --> 02:31:48,320
Now, I mean there's, you know, I
know several drivers and some

2707
02:31:48,320 --> 02:31:50,520
have come out of it, you know,
like malukas.

2708
02:31:50,520 --> 02:31:53,080
We raced in carts for years.
I know his dad, Henry, really

2709
02:31:53,080 --> 02:31:55,960
well.
Henry put up the money, created

2710
02:31:55,960 --> 02:32:02,400
HMDH, yeah, HMD.
And you know, the guy who runs

2711
02:32:02,400 --> 02:32:05,240
HMD, Mike Marini, has been
friends of mine for years and

2712
02:32:05,240 --> 02:32:06,560
years.
He's a Canadian guy.

2713
02:32:06,960 --> 02:32:10,760
But you know, he put up a lot of
money for the first couple of

2714
02:32:10,760 --> 02:32:15,800
years and and then David got
signed by, I think it's Andretti

2715
02:32:16,120 --> 02:32:17,800
this year that he's going to be
racing for.

2716
02:32:17,800 --> 02:32:20,320
And now he's a paid driver.
So he escaped sort of that

2717
02:32:20,600 --> 02:32:24,240
paying driver and got into paid
driver mode and it took him two

2718
02:32:24,240 --> 02:32:26,560
years.
But two years is like $10

2719
02:32:26,560 --> 02:32:29,880
million.
You know, it's it's not a little

2720
02:32:29,880 --> 02:32:32,520
bit of money.
We're talking 8 to $10 million

2721
02:32:32,520 --> 02:32:35,640
to do 2 years in IndyCar.
So you know.

2722
02:32:35,640 --> 02:32:38,680
It's it's like IndyCar is
considered a cheap series.

2723
02:32:38,720 --> 02:32:41,760
I mean, it's relatively.
Stroll paid 80 million for his

2724
02:32:41,760 --> 02:32:45,640
first season and then I think
another 80 million for his

2725
02:32:45,640 --> 02:32:47,440
second season and then they
bought the team.

2726
02:32:50,360 --> 02:32:55,360
Yeah.
And I have to say, to be fair, I

2727
02:32:55,400 --> 02:33:00,080
think he's held his own well
enough considering those you

2728
02:33:00,080 --> 02:33:03,000
hear the term pay driver.
And it's like, yeah, but you

2729
02:33:03,000 --> 02:33:05,480
know, there's some talent there
as well.

2730
02:33:05,480 --> 02:33:07,480
I mean, these aren't people that
are just, you know, off.

2731
02:33:07,480 --> 02:33:09,800
He did.
Well, in F2, he did well in F2,

2732
02:33:10,600 --> 02:33:12,440
you know.
Do I think he's, he's the

2733
02:33:12,440 --> 02:33:14,840
greatest driver on the track?
No.

2734
02:33:14,840 --> 02:33:18,440
But he did well in F2.
He he deserved an opportunity.

2735
02:33:19,000 --> 02:33:21,800
There's a lot of better drivers,
including there's some IndyCar

2736
02:33:21,800 --> 02:33:24,640
drivers that that Colton Herta
could do really well.

2737
02:33:24,640 --> 02:33:28,240
Kyle Kirkwood could do really
well in in Formula One, you

2738
02:33:28,240 --> 02:33:30,440
know.
There are IndyCar drivers who, I

2739
02:33:30,440 --> 02:33:33,360
think given the same sort of
support that those guys get in

2740
02:33:33,360 --> 02:33:36,520
F1, they do really well.
But anyways, we gotta go.

2741
02:33:38,240 --> 02:33:40,320
Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry and and I
don't know, it's.

2742
02:33:40,400 --> 02:33:43,360
My fault, I got you going.
If you will edit, if you will

2743
02:33:43,360 --> 02:33:46,560
edit the at some point, man, I'd
love to talk more to you about

2744
02:33:46,560 --> 02:33:48,240
racing.
I mean the thing absolutely we

2745
02:33:48,240 --> 02:33:51,160
can do it offline.
I'd be really interested in

2746
02:33:51,160 --> 02:33:53,800
finding out kind of where your
son is, cuz I I followed

2747
02:33:53,800 --> 02:33:56,480
peripherally and I've seen you
know some of the pictures and

2748
02:33:56,480 --> 02:33:58,200
things.
I'd be very interested to know

2749
02:33:58,200 --> 02:34:00,200
kind of like what his pathway
is.

2750
02:34:00,200 --> 02:34:04,360
And I know people sometimes if
they move on to manufacture

2751
02:34:04,360 --> 02:34:08,480
testing and things like that or
driving schools and like I just

2752
02:34:08,480 --> 02:34:11,440
I would be interested to know a
call kind of we'll set up a

2753
02:34:11,440 --> 02:34:13,600
call.
Outside this and I'll chat.

2754
02:34:13,960 --> 02:34:15,560
I'll chat to you for ages about
it.

2755
02:34:17,120 --> 02:34:20,760
Yeah, I I really would be.
It's it's one of my, it's a huge

2756
02:34:20,760 --> 02:34:22,400
passion for me, so I'd love to
know more.

2757
02:34:22,720 --> 02:34:24,360
Thank you so much.
I've really enjoyed it.

2758
02:34:24,360 --> 02:34:26,640
Hopefully you got 5 or 10
minutes worth of stuff you can

2759
02:34:26,640 --> 02:34:28,920
use.
No, it's going to be whatever it

2760
02:34:28,920 --> 02:34:31,280
is, 2 hours or something. 2 1/2
hours, I think.

2761
02:34:31,280 --> 02:34:32,520
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.

2762
02:34:33,120 --> 02:34:34,600
All right, my friend.
Have a good one.

2763
02:34:35,640 --> 02:34:37,280
Really enjoyed it.
Thank you very much.

2764
02:34:37,440 --> 02:34:40,120
Thanks to your producer as well.
Appreciate it, Sarah.

2765
02:34:40,160 --> 02:34:41,120
Yeah.
All right.

2766
02:34:41,200 --> 02:34:41,600
See.
You.

2767
02:34:41,640 --> 02:34:42,640
Cheers.
Bye.

#215 - George Masek on 40 years in lighting, 35 years in automated lights

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