#213 - John Wiseman year end chat on the biz, his health and so much more

0:01 Hello and thank you for joining me today on Geases of Gear Episode #213. Today's podcast was brought to you by Gearsource. Gearsource was founded in 2002 with a mission to help global live events businesses to move gear around the planet. Since that time, the company has transacted in more than 100 countries and has sold 1/4 billion dollars in sound, lighting, staging and video gear. Now Gearsource has completely evolved its platform for massive global growth, enabling 14 different localized currencies, payments held in escrow to protect buyers and sellers, AI powered logistics behind a new global logistics brand, gear moves and so much more.

0:46 Visit gearsource.com today and expand your access to global markets for your gear and global gear for your markets. Today's podcast is also brought to you by ACT Entertainment. Nearly every project brings unique constraints and criteria for lighting control. There's always a request for integration with other systems and everything needs to be smart and easy to use and maintain. Not an easy task even on the largest projects. That's why ACT Entertainment is thrilled to be distributing the Visual Productions line of Incredible control products. Designed for continuous and reliable deployment and installations as well as live events, these versatile and easy to use devices deliver on the promise of complete project integration on budget.

1:37 If you are obsessive about control, the Visual Productions line up was made just for you. Learn more by visiting actentertainment.com and thanks for joining me. Something's weird here. My desk is too low. That's what it is now I can see. So yeah, it's after Christmas. Now, I don't know when it is that you're listening to this, but I'm between Christmas and New Year's and Christmas was boring. New Year's is probably going to be boring because I don't generally like to do a heck of a lot at New Year's, and I call it amateur hour.

2:23 You know, it's just one of those nights. It's like Valentine's Day where you you get half the service and half the quality at twice the price and you just end up disappointed. So I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to go there. And so, yeah, I think New Year's will be a pretty quiet night. You know, for me, this whole week, like the whole Christmas to New Year's end of year kind of thing, it's it's about two things, reflecting and planning. And so you're reflecting on what just happened, what the hell just went on in in 2023 and planning being, how am I either going to repeat this because it was an amazing year or in my case completely, you know, destroy it and blow it up and turn it into something amazing next year.

3:12 And so a lot of planning, a lot of reflecting, a lot of just reminders and learning and all of that kind of stuff. So I'm looking forward to it. I've been recording a bunch of podcasts. We're doing a sponsor special, which I believe will air maybe the day after this one does. So I think it's gonna be episode 214 that is really just gratitude to our sponsors, asking them a few questions about how they saw the business this year, how they're going to see it next year, and some good responses there. So hopefully you'll enjoy that as well. And but today is actually one of my favorite people in the whole industry, a very good friend of mine.

3:56 We've become quite close buddies. I talk to him a lot. We speak almost every day, every couple of days. Sometimes it's about business, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's something else. So I think we're going to have one of those discussions today that's just kind of a mixed bag of everything. And so, yeah, this is my good friend John Wiseman. John. Marcel, my man, how are you? What's happening? Merry Christmas. Yeah, Merry Christmas, Happy holidays, man. It's just likewise Beautiful day here in the in the Washoe Valley, Reno NV, Lake Tahoe area. Fantastic.

4:36 You're not in the LA office. I think every time I talk to you, you're in the LA office lately. You spend. Yeah, yeah, I bounce in and out of there a little bit, yeah. Yeah, a little bit. I've been this was really a crazy travel year for me. It was, I think it was probably the busiest travel year I've ever had. And that's that's saying something. Yeah, you spent a lot of time like in in UAE and stuff, right? Like I think you went. There. Yeah. Well, I'd yeah, it's weird because I, you know last year post COVID, which is you know a good part of the discussion for some reason, my particular group of clients all started in Europe and they all started in stadiums.

5:20 So I had you know well not you know there's Europe and South America. So I had, I had, I had Coldplay rehearsals in Costa Rica, went straight from there to Paris for Beyoncé rehearsals and she rehearses for a long period. And so we did a like a month in Paris. Then there was a week off and then and I went back and forth a couple of times and then there was a week off and then we all went, started off in Stockholm and who else do I have over there? I had Maroon 5 over there, so I went over there like for two days for those guys. What else do I have going out? I just Mötley Crüe was over there, Def Leppard was over there. So it's just it's just like a lot of bouncing in and out of Europe last year. And were the stadiums generally because of the size of the shows or was it because it's just safer and people were happier being outdoors?

6:13 I no, I had nothing to do with safety or outdoors. It was just I think people were starved. I think people were starved to do something and those acts and those packages could sell, you know, 40 to 60,000 seats. So it became economics and it became demand, supply and demand. And, you know, I, I, I, I thought to myself, my God, you know, how, how how's everybody affording this, 'cause you know, it's it's it's a babysitter. It's, you know, you got to buy, you know, maybe dinner, parking, T-shirts, the. Parking these days is freaking ridiculous. I know you don't deal with it, but most of us human punters do, and I mean like to go to a hockey game. Parking is 40 bucks.

7:01 Here in South Florida, where nobody cares about hockey, it's 40 bucks to park. I'll. Tell you a funny story about parking. So when I started Chaos, my business partner was, you know, there was Nick Jackson and and and Rich Oster and and we we had some other people that had parts of it. But I was the majority owner and the 2nd majority owner. The second one underneath me was a guy named Chris Kamen who played for the Clippers for eight years. And Chris is a delightful guy. When he got traded, it just it hit the news wire. He didn't even know it was happening. So he and Farooq and Eric Gordon got traded to New Orleans for Chris Paul.

7:47 And it just hit it, just hit the wires. And I saw it and I called him and he was on the team bus and I go, bro, did you get traded? He goes, yeah, I just, I just got the word, I just got traded. I go, oh shit, he goes, yeah, and I go, what about my parking? And he goes, you're parking. I go, yeah, because each player had two parking spots. And you you would drive down underneath Staples Center. They had a Val. They had a valet there. And I he, I had one of the one of the spots he gave to me. So I would bring clients and friends and family and you you you'd pull up to the top of the ramp. They'd wave you down. You'd drive down the bottom. I. Had the same thing for the Florida Panthers for a long unbelievable.

8:27 And they wanted me to re up some seats that I was paying for and I said no problem, I I want the parking again. And they said no, we can't do it. You know they're cutting us back on how many of those spots we can give away and blah blah blah, yeah, so then cancel my tickets. I couldn't go back to the regular parking lot. You know, no, you can't car and going straight up the elevator to your seats, it's like, hey, that's how. Well, when, yeah. And when you when you when you when you're there for a game, there's no trucks down there because there's no load in load out. So there's but there's there's room for like probably 50 cars and that's it. And so it's all it's the team only and the visiting bus is parked there. So the visiting team would go in and out of there. But man, as I've gotten older, it I had no idea parking would be so important.

9:16 It's true, man. It is true. It's. Amazing. Oh my. Especially my. Daughter, how far you have to walk sometimes. Oh, yeah, my, my, my daughter. We're just, we're just you and I offline. We're talking about Keith Urban. So my, my, my daughter Katie, she came to me and she said, hey, dad, I want to go see this guy named Keith Urban. And this is like 20 years ago. And I go, who's that? She said, oh, no, he's really, he's got to be really big. He's really good. And I went, you know, we're living in LA at the time and I'm thinking, I said, oh shit, I don't want to go to a show. And she said I go, where's he playing? She goes Universal Amphitheater. I go, oh, no problem. Drive down back lot, valet parking. I go, sure, let's go. Yeah. That's amazing.

9:57 But you know, you were talking about Europe. The The thing is, like, I know my business in general, we've seen more growth in Europe than in the US over the last year. So I don't know if that plays into it or what, but it just seems like Europe was gangbusters in 23. And I don't know who knows what's going to happen because there's so much stuff going on right now. Like, are are you paying any attention to this? You know, who the hoodies are? Not being the blowfish, the hoodies. Not the hoodies. Yeah, the Hootie Rebels. Yeah, the the guys from. The bad guys from Yemen? Yeah, I know where they are. Yeah, paying, paying a lot of attention to them. So, you know, they're they're like pirating and blowing up ships and using drones to blow up ships and stuff.

10:42 Yeah, So what? So what are we waiting for? Well, but I mean, here's the issue. And so you know, without going too far down the rabbit hole, so already this has only been happening for a short period of time where they're they're nailing ships going into the Suez Canal and blocking them and or burning them or blowing them up or whatever. Into the Red Sea, yeah. And it's already 3X freight from like Asia to Europe and. Yeah, because they got to go around the, the, the, the. Thousands of miles, yeah, thousands of miles extra. And so 3 three times for a container cost going into Europe. And that hasn't really bled too much into the US yet, but it will.

11:24 And. You know, like I was listening to somebody talking about it and they were like, well it's OK, they can just do air freight. And I mean not only is air freight like 10 times as much money, but and and I didn't know the numbers. But there's a lot less space. Well, listen to this. Do you know how much less It's incredible? And you probably do know it. There's. Like 5%? Naughty Way less so a a typical container ship can hold up to 10,000 containers. A 747 seven containers. Wow. Yeah. So and then you and you got the size of the door to deal with too. So we've had, we've had things kicked off kicked off on the runway because you know they had to like they they had a, they had a change in equipment.

12:09 So 747 changes to a you know back in the day at DC-10 it was a different sized door. Yeah. So all that. Yeah that the the Hootie things and that's and that's interesting too because I I had a little bit of brush with that. What's going on over there? A really good friend of mine named Curly Jobson who deals primarily with our UK office and Yvonne Donnelly over there who's just a really just a badass. She's she's she's she's me of our company over there she's so they do this thing called Sandstorm. Have you heard of Sandstorm? No. OK you have to check this out.

12:50 Sandstorm is put on by a company called Middle Beast Middle Beast, not Middle East. Middle Beast and Sandstorm. I'm going to probably get this wrong but I'm going to I'm going to feel comfortable enough saying I think it's the biggest festival on planet earth. It's sponsored by the Saudi government and what I what I gather from my friend Curly who who works directly for Middle Beast and they are they are you know over there. The companies are owned by, by, by the, by the nation. So Saudi Arabia and MBS over there, the guy who runs it, he's trying to kind of drag them into the 1960s trying to you know, like like make it more Western kind of. I think.

13:34 I think the goal is, from what I can kind of see is Saudi. They understand that the way they some of their medieval ways of doing things or you know it's not tenable with with social media and you can't have women not drive and you know all that kind of crazy shit they still do. So they're they're kind of, I think that they Saudi Arabia will end up being more like Abu Dhabi, Dubai, some of the you know cut Qatar, all those other places. So they're dragging. And So what? He's sponsoring this festival and the festival is, is massive and it's probably one of the best laid out festivals I've ever seen. There's like six or six or seven stages. It's massive.

14:17 The video screen's like 100 feet high and like 500 feet wide. No, it's insane. This isn't the one that just happened the EDM Festival. Oh, no, it's not. No, it's not. It's not. It's not they got. The one where Metallica played. That's the one that's it's. EDM cause 'cause Rob was telling me about it on the podcast last week. Well, I actually bumped into Rod Rob out there. We actually, I walked into his trailer and we had a really fantastic 30 minute good laugh. He's a good guy. He's a good guy. Yeah, that's the one. He said it's an EDM show. That's Travis Scott. It was Chris Brown. It was Metallica.

14:58 It was, you might have started it out as an EDM and they and they did have they had some EDM, but you know, like like Coachella is a rock. The only, the only pure like festival is if you've got like download festivals, heavy metal, you know, outside Donnington, right. And then you've got like the country festival, what's called Stagecoach, that's, that's country, right. But you've got, you've got Coachella, there's EDM, there's rock'n'roll. Yeah. It's not power trip. Exactly. So which is, you know, kind of smart marketing, but this, this thing was over the top. So currently kind of runs it all and then like Alex Reardon did the big design and did a just a spectacular job. You should actually I should hook you up with Alex. You should interview him.

15:44 He's a. Really. Yeah, that'd. Be fun. Fascinating. Very talented, man. So yeah, I just got back from that. So, so going back to the the whole Yemen container thing, Curly has been asking me, Michael Jobs has been asking me to come over because he's very proud of what they've built because they literally were there in the middle of the desert and they've got an incredible edict from the government that happens to have a lot of our gasoline money to put on something special. And so they put on something special and they built it from the ground up. They just, they just, they just built it. And it's it's there's no like like Coachella is confined by you know the polar grounds download is confined by you know and and and what's the other one that's in Scotland I can't think of big festivals get Glastonbury.

16:37 They're define they're defined by borders and boundaries and cities and all that. This is just do whatever you want to. Do, yeah. And they go for. It, yeah. And so they they brought in Alex and they brought in some other really great designers that got some wonderful people and it's amazing. But getting back to the other part, so my wife's going, you're you're flying to Saudi Arabia next week and I go, yeah, she goes, isn't there a war going on over there? And I'm like, yeah, you know and there for a couple of months leading up to. I'm wondering is this going to still happen because it's it's a, it's a it's a really big job for all the vendors, not just not just PRG but you know the local vendors and there's some other people over there. I mean it's we we do a major part of the festival but like if that's shut down it's a $200 million loss to all the vendors. So you you start having those kind of things and it it it, it starts affecting the business.

17:35 I mean you know our business as you know Marcel looks really big from the outside but we operate on pretty thin margins. We have incredible labor costs and you know you you what is it? You can you can take five years to build a company and you can you can 11 bad gig will completely put you out of business. So you know, where's the, you were talking about the freight issue though? Well, the freight issue was was I was just talking about the the whole Middle East thing like because I'm thinking to myself, you know, you know every now and then not to not to be like, you know, you have to consider all the things I'm thinking to myself, shit every now and then like Russia will shoot down a passenger plane by mistake, so and so will shoot down a passenger plane by mistake. It's like I'm going to be flying over fucking Iran, you know, on a It's like, really?

18:27 Is this a smart trip to do? Because it would just be my luck after all the shit I've been through in my life to get, you know, in a random passenger plane shot down and where they. Go. But it wouldn't be blown up or anything. They'd just like, clip the wing and make you land somewhere in the desert. You'd have to put up with a bunch of annoying people for like 9 days until you got rescued or something. They'd have. They'd have to put up with me. Exactly, yeah. You probably get grumpy after a few days, I would think. Absolutely. Absolutely. You'd run out of the food from first class and you'd be like, God damn. What's going on back there? This shit back there. This is garbage. Flying has had to be with you traveling as much as you have. You know, I I don't fly that much anymore but this year I I did a bit, mostly because of my kids racing. But it's it's a pain in the ass.

19:20 It's a pain in the ass. It is a pain in the ass. You know, even like and I probably don't have anywhere near the status you do now on the airlines because I don't fly as much anymore, but I'm still platinum on a few airlines and kind of means nothing anymore. Like you're just, you're just like everybody else when you're platinum, you got to be like 1K or this or that, like all of these elite, elite levels. I'm just not there anymore, so. Well, but that's why I stick with pretty much like like 2 airlines. Yeah, I've got lifetime status, the top status on Delta just from I flew him so much back in the day and I don't fly in that much, but I still have the status. They gave me a lifetime status. But you know, I love Southwest.

20:05 I love Southwest. Because no expectations. Well you know what you pay the 15 bucks or whatever and you get the Business Select and after all the after all the bogus assholes who claim to be pre boarded. You know after those 15 people go on for free you know you can get on you can you generally get a pretty decent seat and it's cheap and cheerful. I I don't do any long hauls on that but it's you know like I kind of like the whole the SW vibe they're kind of funny they they say funny shit when they're doing announcements they throw peanuts at you you know. So, you know, I kind of like, but yeah, but I I pretty much stick on American because the price is negligibly the same.

20:47 But I have such status with American that I've had some pretty interesting, I've had some pretty interesting positive experiences. When they've canceled the plane, they canceled the flight. One time I was on a flight this, this, this buddy of mine from my hometown. He's a stockbroker. And you know, him and I kind of came up in the music business together. He went off in the stockbroker. He said to me one time he goes, hey, I got to, I got to go on one of these trips with you, you know, because you're calling me from all these crazy places. I got to go with you. And I said, OK, so I got Green Day playing at, playing at Wembley Stadium and Joan Jett's opening and it'll be fun, right? So. So come with me for that. So he and I get on the plane and we're sitting on the plane, We're in first class and he's next to me. And they came up and you got to understand, you know, I look like a homeless person half the time when I'm traveling, right? So they they tapped me on the shoulder and to whisper in my ear.

21:42 Mr. Wiseman, this plane is going to cancel in about 15 minutes. Could you very quietly, you and your friend, Mr. Martinez, could you grab your your things and follow me off the plane? Don't say anything. Right. So it looks like I'm getting thrown off the plane. And so we're grabbing our stuff and we're real, real quiet. We walk off the plane and they have the golf cart and they take you over. They go, we got you protected on another flight. We go over and we, you don't get protect on that flight and we go the other flight. He just kind of looks at me and kind of shakes his head and so we get to that. We get to the hotel and we, you know they they upgrade us to a nice suite in London which is just nice, right. Didn't cost any more. And then we go to the show and and of course I've been friends with Joan and they're her whole band. Kenny Laguna forever, like forever, like 40 years.

22:25 And Kenny, it's the stadium and they're playing, playing the stadium and it's like, you know, 6070 thousand people there. And Kenny Laguna is stage right and we're standing stage right and he's playing, he's playing now piano and he looks over and he goes Wiseman, hi, Kenny in the middle of the show and he just walks off the stage and comes over and gives me a big hug and it's loud as shit. And we're talking, we're kind of yelling. I'm introducing to my friend and I go, Kenny, shouldn't you go back? He goes, Oh yeah, I should go back and he goes back and finish the song and my friend looks at me and he goes, OK, so the plane, the hotel, the guy walking, he goes, who the fuck are you? I go nobody. I am nobody. I'm just right guy, right place, right time. Yeah, no, you've worked hard for that. You've worked hard for, for you know that little bit of benefit that you're getting now at this stage of your life, right? Yeah, why not?

23:18 Worked really hard for it. Plus, I mean the amount you're traveling. And this is how I've always explained it to people. You know? You can't raise your eyebrow at me because I'm flying in business class and you know, I'm gone. Like almost every single week I'm gone somewhere on an airplane. And like when I was with Martin, Martin was the worst because I would fly from Miami to Denmark to China, back to Denmark to LA, back to Miami, say. In six days. My ex-wife go to New York, go back to Denmark. I mean, yeah, like just constantly not even knowing what time zone you're on, right? Yeah, that's that's that's pretty much mine has been non-stop like that and it still is I think I was gone last year probably about 250 days and I probably of those flights were probably, you know I was probably on flights 175 of those days. That's insane.

24:09 That's a lot of flying. You. Know it's It's not a. It's not. It's not really. It's it's not a luxury. It's really not a luxury. Because what people don't understand is like, we're not going on vacation. When we land, we have, we go right to work. And I don't stay three or four days in a place if I don't need to. I go in, I get done. It's like, you know, like this last trip to Saudi, that was probably the second longest trip I've ever taken. You know, it was, you know, Reno to Dallas was 3 1/2 hours. Dallas to Doha was 16 1/2 hours and then Doha and then there's like an 8 hour layover and then Doha to Riyadh's another hour and a half. So you're talking 24 hours to get there. And then, you know, I and I and I was talking to a friend of mine in another business.

24:56 He goes, do you really have to go to that thing? And I go, no, I don't have to go, I said, But it's going to be a lot of opportunity. And he said, what do you think's going to happen when you get there And I go, I have no idea. Like I said, I'm going to run in to be like a random Rob didn't expect to see Rob. You know, I ran to Tony Giaccio, hung out with Tony Giaccio back in the Metallica's dressing compound for, you know, half an hour, had a great time. These are all just and you know, and then, you know, ran to Alex rear and hung out with hang out with Curly, hang out, you know, just one person leads to another to another. And then, you know, I just, I got, I actually got business out of there. That and that's what happens is I always end up getting 8 gig, a sniff of a gig or two or three gigs because you're in the mix and if you're not in the mix, you don't know what's going on. So you know, a lot of times I'll show up with no plan. That's like, OK, let's see what's. Going on, Speaking of Rob, so we recorded that episode on like I think it was the 19th and we had a fairly long conversation about Lars and specifically about the meter. You know, like, I'm like, how do you follow the shots when you don't know, like, is he going to hit it here? You know, because he he, he's very, he pushes a lot, right. Yeah, his meter's a bit.

26:10 You're being so kind. Yeah, well, we were relatively kind, but we got into it pretty good on it. And the next day or the day after, I think it was the 21st or something, he called me and he said, hey Marcel, have you already like completed that? Is it uploaded or anything? I said it's uploaded, but it's scheduled for next week. Why? And he said, well, I know it's probably a lot of work, but would you mind doing some editing? And I said, yeah, sure what? And he said, the stuff about Lars, I said, oh, that was like 7 minutes. And he goes, yeah, well, his dad died yesterday, like on the 20th, I guess his father passed away. And plus Lars's birthday was on the 26th was when we were launching it, I think.

26:54 And so he said, you know, you don't have to do it. I'm not telling you to do it. I'm not even telling you that it's going to be a big deal because I doubt Lars is ever going to hear it. Just kind of the vibe doesn't feel right. It feels shitty and I said no, consider it done. And I mean so I think I had to get up on. I don't know if it was Christmas morning or the next day and early in the morning I had to download everything, re edit everything and re upload it all and took me, I don't know, an hour and a half or something but you know. You do? Well, it's funny. The funny thing about Lars is he's the founder in the driving force in the biggest fucking band ever, arguably in the top ten in the world and still going. And people want to want to not, not criticize him. We want to discuss what he does and how he's doing it. It's like motherfuckers doing something right. And I'll tell you Hey.

27:49 It's like Nikki Six. It's like Rainbow Star. It's like you don't necessarily have to be good to be massive. And I'm not saying Lars is bad because it takes a special type of drummer to do what he does. Oh man, they and they, they created a whole new genre, man. I mean, those guys at the speed metal out of San Francisco. Are you shitting me? I'll tell you. I'll tell you my funny, large story. And I've. I've met Lars a couple of times. He wouldn't know me if I walked into the room. But you know, I know everybody around him. And so I was with the Foos in New Hampshire. There's this really great gig in New Hampshire. I forget the name of it. Lake Winnipesaukee. It's like 10 minutes from there and it's a small amphitheater and it's about 8000 seats and and I was there with the Foo Fighters and it was the first show without Taylor the first right start off positive show with without Taylor and it was Josh Freeze was sitting in as the new drummer and they were kind of like it was the IT was the weekend before Boston Calling.

28:50 So it was it was a great, warm, friendly, fuzzy kind of safe gig to kind of get started right. And and yeah and it was it was a really it was a very it was a very happy vibe and a very sad vibe all at once, you know, as you can imagine. Yeah. And so this was like a rock. They call it roadie day, like roadie day camp or something because there's a swimming pool. There's a there's a like a some kind of putting course. There's the the catering is incredible. They give you pajamas when you leave that are embroidered. Where's the date and everything. It's it's. You know what I actually have?

29:31 The brochure. No, I had the jacket they gave me. I thought it was here. I'll figure it out and I'll tell you, but it's a great gig. It's just outside of Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. You can probably Google it. I'll bet you, I'll bet you your gal Sarah's all over right now. So we're sitting in catering, having a nice sitting in catering, having a nice chat. And they said, oh, we're the opening band and I'm like, oh, so let me, let me, let me get my lighting guy and make sure that you, you know, you get some production, you get some stuff doing. I'll get all clear with the foods to take care of. The foods are just, you know, all about being good people. And so, you know, they go, yeah, can you. Yeah, come out and come out and watch us. So I got, I think I caught the last song and it was, it was these two guys and it was almost like a like a White Stripes kind of thing, you know, just the the drummer. Royal.

30:28 You know, now the band's called Taipei Houston, and I asked him, I said, well, I said, where'd you get that name? And they said, well, we just were bored during COVID and we found the longest flight we could find, what's called Taipei Houston. Since we're in for the long haul, we thought we'd name ourselves after the longest flight we could find. I said, well, the longest flight I was I was on was London to Sydney. It was like 30 hours with one stop and I got drunk and sober twice on the on the flight. So we had a good laugh, right? So they're really, they're nice kids. So after the show we're all hanging out, blah, blah, blah. And they say, yeah, we just got signed to do opening act for such and such in Europe. I said, well send me your itinerary. I said I'm, I'm heading over there for for some gigs. If I'm around, I'll pop in and try to see the show like I was unable to do tonight.

31:14 Right. And so they send me their itinerary. I look at it and they're in Amsterdam the same day I'm in Amsterdam. And so I I stayed over an extra night and I went to the gig and hanging out with these kids. It was Lars's two sons. No way. I had. I had no idea. I had no idea. And they didn't die, which is super cool. No. And they were the most polite, nice, solid young men I'd met in a really long time. That's really cool. Doesn't happen often. Well, you know, so, so, so my large story is he and his wife I think is now his ex-wife did a hell of a job raising these kids because they are Fanta and the band was really fucking good.

32:02 You'd probably like them, Marcel. I was kind of blown away. You know to check it out. Yeah, Type 8, Houston. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What else you got going on? How's how's Jeremy doing? He's off right now, so he's doing a bunch of SIM racing. I think he's doing, you know, the Daytona Rolex 24 races in a couple weeks or something. So he's doing the online version of it because his dad's about 1/2 a million short of the half a million it takes to actually drive in the Rolex 24. But he couldn't. He couldn't get a couldn't get a cheaper hobby, could he? No, no, it's. Well, I mean, to be perfectly fair, like it's not been a hobby.

32:45 It's really been his job since he was about 8 years old. It's all he's really done. School has been part time, racing's been full time. And so even now, like he's been back for about 6-6 weeks I guess, and he's on the SIM every single day, at least five or six hours racing the tracks that he's planning to be racing next year and. It's a passion. It's a passion. It's, you know unfortunately it's a it's a job that's very hard to get paid for because there's only so many seats in the world that get paid and there's a lot of billionaires that have sons who or daughters. Now daughters is sort of hot trend right now who want to be racing.

33:26 They want a trophy racing kid. You know, it used to be a tennis player. Now they want racing driver kids, so, So it's difficult. Like I talked to him, I talked to him a couple days ago, had a long talk saying, you know, you need to start having some life plans past next year. So next year he's going to do one more season I think in the UK and then from there decide hey, is this, you know, where I invest my life? Because then he'll, he's turning 20 next year and so the following year he'll be turning 21. And I'm not saying he needs to have a career and a life planned. Yeah, I'd actually rather him take three years and go backpack the world or something, you know? But right. Yeah, that's a good plan.

34:08 But I don't want him to keep investing all of this time and effort and money and energy into into motorsport if it's just going the way of billionaires, you know so. Yeah, it's it's tough. You know, you talk about how many seats there are. I mentioned Chris Kamen earlier. Yeah, I was talking to him one time and he he looked at me and he just said and I'm going to get, I'm going to get this number wrong. But it's pretty close And he goes, John there, there's like 10 billion people on planet Earth and there's 360 NBA players. Yeah, crazy. He said the funnel gets tight. He goes, I just happened to be blessed with a 7 foot frame and I worked hard and had some skills and I was able to do it, he said. But you know it's it's it's it's the it's the bottleneck. You know it's totally true.

34:58 Well it's like and it it's like I I I think you'd be. I think you're a lot better off with him than like I see some of these families who who go all in for their kid to be an NFL player, all in for their kid to be, you know, and. Racing's even worse. Racing's even worse. Like, I know people literally who have sold their company, sold their house, sold everything they have to keep their kid in the dream to to get there right. And fortunately we've got some good friends and some some companies that I've done a lot for who who are willing to support him. So that helps a lot. But you know even then it's it's like I'm still paying the other half and and it's just it's it's hard. So, you know, realistically, like in in, so you talk about 360 players or whatever in motorsport, there's 20 in Formula One and there's I think there's 28 in IndyCar.

35:52 And so in open wheel racing, that's it. You've basically got 48 seats paid in the world. And of those 48 seats like an IndyCar, now there's probably about 10 that are paid for by the dads, but they look like employees. But the dad paid for, like, you know, I have a few friends who happen to be very wealthy, and one just finished doing a deal for $12 million for two years for his kid to race an IndyCar. One did a deal last year, eight and a half million for two years in IndyCar. And the difference in price just is the quality of the team that you're on, right? Well, and of those and of those of those 40 that you see, just take Indy, for example.

36:35 I can, you know, the general public can name maybe the top three people and then the other 37, you know, who the hell they are. Yeah. And. And they're they're, they're and they're finishing like, you know, 20 seconds behind and they're nobody's. It's crazy. No, it's it's true. But but you know, they have one of those coveted seats. When you move into like, you know, tin tops as the Brits call them, cars with doors and a roof. You know, GT cars or whatever. There's a lot more paid seats. Not NASCAR, but like Porsche, GT Cop, BMWGT, Ferrari, Lamborghini, all the all the GT stuff, especially in Europe is huge and so you can go a driver. If you meet the right people and you win the right races, you can go live in Germany and race professionally and make €300,000 a year. Have a.

37:22 Professional driver. Live with a supermodel and have a great life and Jeremy would be perfectly happy with that. He's not looking to get rich and famous, he's looking to drive a car for a living. Isn't that awesome though? Good for him. You know, not an Uber, but yeah, so. So I was going to ask you about business like 2023. So here's the progression that I've heard from most people. 22 was batshit crazy, you know? Just like completely exploded out of the gate and at the. End at at the end at the end. Really. It took it a while. So yeah. Well, if you think about it, that COVID was about 18 to 24 months and so that the the shit hit the fan March 15th, March 18th, 2020 which I happen to know that because that was when we did the the. Yeah, that zoom call thing.

38:15 The Motherfuck 9 middle one. Yeah, exactly, exactly when I when I said, ah, this is bullshit. There's there's no way they're going to cancel these, you know, I just completely called it all. Well, I remember you saying PRG is fucked if they cancel the Olympics and then it was the Berlin auto show or something then. It's this And then it's. That, yeah, you kept raising the bar a little bit. Well, you know. PRG survived it and almost everyone survived it, which is incredible. It's incredible. You know what? What a fucking mess. So I would say, I wouldn't say 2022 was bonkers. I would say the end of 2022. It started gearing up because remember Marcel, it was still tentative. Is this, is this coming back or, you know, is this shit really gone? Or are they going to act like it's gone? Or, you know, what's going to really happen here? 2023 exploded.

39:06 Just exploded. You know and and and I mean like so you had 18 to 20 months of delayed touring put on top of the touring. That was going to happen already and I kept you know, then I my doomsday was when are people going to run out of money, you know and and at what point are they going to stop putting this shit on their credit cards, you know? And and so like next year is next year is teaming up, you know that our our our our board and our our, our, our, you know, management at PRG they came and they said, you know, you think you guys can do a 1012% increase, you know, because there's this corporate bullshit where you got to, it's it's an automatic you're going to grow every year, right. So I get to you know, I say to them, look there was one point where where someone in in management said to me, you know, we know we're $12 million off and I just said no, no you're not.

40:05 I said you're not. I said there's there's things that are going to fill in things that are going to happen that we don't even know about. But I can guarantee you that they're going to happen. They said, well you know how do you know this? And I said because it happens every fucking year. It happens every year and and and they they wanted a further explanation and at this point Marcel I was getting a little frustrated by by the what I no shit. Yeah. It's very competitively stupid fucking questions, right? Well, that's why they call it a forecast too, right? It's not called a guarantee or a promise or a whatever. It's called a forecast, you know. Well, you know, you we we learn or or we don't learn from history. You know history repeats itself. You can you know like like not to get political, but the Holocaust now with this other shit's going on, it's like haven't we already been to this fucking rodeo?

40:52 And so, so, you know, I said to them because, you know, you know me, Marcel, I can be colorful at times. I finally said, look, let me explain this to you, OK? Yeah, we're, we're the tail of the dog, OK? And we're the part of the tail that's right by the asshole where the shit comes out, OK? And I said, I said, and the dog is the artists and Live Nation and AEG and the remaining independent promoters who owned venues that they have to put something in, OK? And they have to put something in, even if it's shit, to get the parking money, the popcorn money, the beer money, the T-shirt concession slice, all of that stuff has to happen. I said.

41:41 They have a bigger problem than we do because they're they have more at risk than we do. They have empty real estate sitting there that they're paying taxes on. They have staff and everything else. So I can just fucking guarantee you that something's going to go in there and they're going to need something from either us or Solitech or Four Wall or whoever happens to be in it. And I said we will get our slice of that pie. So get the fuck out of my office and stop asking these stupid questions. That's what I said. Did you see? Did you see Rapinoe article? Kicked him out of my office. That's. Hilarious. Get out. OK. I'm sorry, Joe. That's hilarious. Yeah.

42:22 Did you see the I, I might have even sent it to you, the Rapinoe article about how artists have these massive social media followings now. And he said, I mean basically it was him talking to shareholders pretty much saying look we got loads of blue sky and and lots of untapped potential still this markets going to grow big time and they were like yeah, so how And he said well pick artist A for example has 10 million people that follow him on each of these social media platforms. Our job is easy. All we have to do is sell tickets to 5% of them. Well, and that and that's what these guys do is they play the percentages, They go, look if we sell 3% that's all we got to do. So our job of somebody Social media 5. Percent and that's it.

43:12 You know? That's incredible. Though that's, yeah, it's an incredible concept that they're milking it that hard. You know what I mean? Like. They're that's that's that's exactly how I would look at it. Yeah, because we're we're in a percentages game. You know we're just in a percentages game. We're gonna like people say you know is is who's the number one company in the world like oh what fucking day is it. You know it's it's my I today might be my day tomorrow might be Mickey Curvis's day. The next day might be whoever's running four wall knowing you know you know it's it's. It's still West today. I I don't know. I've never met him. I don't know the guy you haven't met. WI don't think so. If I have, he wasn't very memorable. He's he's an interesting guy.

43:52 It's an interesting story because he he used to I think and Wes, if you're listening and I'm misquoting this, I'm sorry, but I think he was actually a farmhand or a ranch hand that worked for Mike Cannon on Michael's ranch and and Michael hired him to come work at 4 Wall and then when he sold four Wall, they kept Wes and somehow he became the CEO and and he's done very well. Well, good for him. You know what? That's that. That's the American. That's the American dream. Good work ethic. Yeah, good work ethic. You know, work your way to the top. Shit, dude, I was, I was AI started out as a stagehand unloading trucks. You know, I was, I was absolutely floundering. Didn't know what I was going to do. I had a lot of lot of plans to maybe go to law school. I was going to maybe do this, do that. And I just fell into the music business because my girlfriend worked at the student union and I ended up unloading a truck one day.

44:47 And so, you know, here I am. Yeah. You would have made a good a good litigator. Oh yeah, you're a good arguer. You don't lose a lot of arguments. No. And it it it, it did me well in the XL Video chaos lawsuit because, man, I I dug in. I was like, that was law school for me. Dude, that was 18 months, 14 hours a day and running a business with Nick trying to keep everything afloat. That was a that was I remember sitting down at court every day and looking over because they sued Val docs too as our general manager and I remember look at a Val and just going, man, isn't this fascinating? And he goes, what are you nuts? And like, well, look, I wish it wasn't us, but this is really, you know? You're so funny. That's the same way I was with Google. I was like, I was in awe half the time going, wow, I feel like this is television, you know, but it's actually I'm the one getting fucked and not the actor, you know? Exactly.

45:39 And then and and and yeah, and it was to me There I Look, you're either going to be miserable or you're going to embrace it and have some fun with it. And I just embraced it and had as much fun as I possibly could. I I just loved intimidating the lawyers on the other side because they didn't fucking know what to make. Know. I told one guy was going to throw him out a window one time he looked at me and I I I said look shrug your shoulders at me one more fucking time. And I I said I'm coming over this table and I'm going to beat the fucking shit out of you. And then I'm going to and he goes, you can't speak to my Co counsel that way. I go really pal, I go when I'm done with him. What the fuck you think's going to happen to you? I said I'll throw you out the fucking window. We're on the 40th floor and they just. And I said try me. I said fucking try it. That's funny. And they shut and they and they and they just shut down. So John, was 23 your biggest year personally without giving me any numbers?

46:30 I think my biggest year personally is I I I I sold a couple of companies back in the last 20 years and those were like one time big hits. But I mean biggest year as far as as you know the the amount of business you? Ran. Oh a hundred 100%. Yeah. For for for me personally underneath the the PRG umbrella and what I handle between myself and I'm I'm. I'm fortunate enough to have a really great people around me like you know like Burton Tannenbaum and luch and we've got some really great young people coming up Brooke and we've got we just you know Paige Newman who you know her father and I have friends for years and years. We we were always on different sides of the of the of the table but always you know respectfully enjoyed each other you know we've got some great people underneath. So I'm tied to a lot of those people. Yvonne and James Morton and you know, there's just some, you know, Richie Garage.

47:25 There's just some really great people in our organization. All the way around the world. You know what? We we we it was we were firing on on all. It was like AV12 firing on every cylinder. It just, it was it was magical. It was. It was. It was a lot of work, but it was a lot. I mean, this is the kind of problem. So, you know, someone would complain, I'd go, Are you fucking kidding me? This is shit we dream about. Bring it on. So you're you're probably in weeks of budgeting meetings and stuff now and or? No, I don't. Go on now, you don't. No, I just give him a number. Is the number bigger for next year? My number, I think our number is a little bit bigger for next year, but that's not the beauty of being part of like an organization like PRG when you're in the sales force is that, you know, everything hit last year, right?

48:18 But when I say everything, I'm talking about in concert touring because that's primarily where I am. But I'm involved in some art, art stuff. I'm involved in television. I'm involved like, I just got a call to be involved as like an associate producer to do a Netflix thing with Adam Sandler, which I'm going to work for his his brother and his niece and his executive producer who's does all his films. I'm like way under them helping them out. So there's all, you know, there's all these different verticals that if like music hit on all cylinders. But we had the SAG strike and we had the writers strike which just completely shut down, you know 90% of our film and television division.

49:02 So. So you know what, you know what it is, Marcel, it's like if I'm hitting on all 12 cylinders, those guys are hitting on 0 cylinders. So now it all just kind of evens out if they if all of the divisions ever hit at once, it would be spectacular. But I mean, like during COVID, you had a little bit of television. You had lots of install work that was still being done and those like I remember solo tech telling me probably beginning of 21 or something, 50% they said what was it, we're at 50%, no, they were at 30% overall, but 50%, I don't remember. Anyways, it all came from installed 50. Percent of their business is installed. Yeah.

49:50 And that carried them. That carried them. And that carried them through and and we we we didn't do that much of that. Those guys that's something we haven't really focused on. But what I'm saying is that you know mute like in 23 music was hitting but it was making up for some of the losses and some of the other parts of the company. Now next year, music might we not might not be firing on all 12 cylinders, we might be firing on, you know 8. But but the but the four that were dead in TV and film are going to be revived again and that's going to make up the difference. And that's the beauty of being in an organization that's not just one vertical, right, just one vertical. You've got, you've got complimentary things. I mean and the other thing too that I think makes us a little bit different this, this is Jerry Harris's vision that has actually come true.

50:37 And he and he and he he expresses it well. We're the production resource group, which means we're a group of people that have resources that know how to do production right. And so a lot of why we did well last year is I didn't get in bidding wars with people to drive the price down to get a, you know, X tour or AY tour. We got interesting projects where we were able to work hand in hand with artists to bring their their vision to the stage. That is magic, that it's magic on a business end. But it's also magic personally because you know as a salesman I'm not AI don't play guitar. I don't play you know any instruments. I've, you know I play the telephone. But basically there's a there's there is a little bit of artwork to a deal and you have to make these deals. But we also this we.

51:27 Didn't read that book. Did you come up with a book? The owner of the deal? Oh no, no, that was the other guy. That was the other guy. That's the other guy. But you know what? But the other part too is that we're able to make it work financially for people. So. So we have the financial ability. So we go a lot deeper than I think the other companies and not disparaging them in any way because every every company has has, you know, there's there's things that are wrong with us, but there's some pretty cool shit that we're able to do that nobody else is able to do. We're able to have the, the, the financial resources, the people who actually know production and there's a group of us and you know we're in 60 locations around the world that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. So our projects and why we did last really well last year was we weren't bidding on a square video screen or 100 rigging motors.

52:15 You know that's when you're in the when you're 100% commoditized which is what we are not you know we're we're we're commodity but we also have some secret sauce so we can apply to it. And from a financial standpoint and from a creative standpoint our projects division did some amazing amazing creative development and delivered products like like there was a Art Art Basil or Art Basil project down in Miami about two weeks ago where I did a project through an artist that I knew in Los Angeles. He's kind of like a young Andy Warhol where we we we created seven LED screens for him that we delivered in 68 days into this this project for BMW. And then then we built we built spheres for Coldplay Tour that that fit the the narrative of of music of the spheres. Right.

53:09 We we built Beyoncé, you know she wanted this this you know and and and the process with her was probably 2 1/2 three years. And that was basically it was a an LED screen that was kind of, you know a little bit smaller than a football field that that flipped up and it had a big opening in the middle of it. And you know we're in in the in the creative discussions like OK we can we we can stagger it with, you know because the LED's come in squares. So we can stagger the squares and we can build a border around it. She's like, Nah, I want it to be an Infinity. So we built the little pieces that make the difference that so it looks like, you know the edge of an Infinity pool. And so when you're looking into that thing, there's no big black border that's that's like drawing your eye to it.

53:51 And the fact that she had the vision and the people at Stew Fish could translate that to us through her and through through the meetings and then we're able to very much so at the very last minute have Frederick Opsimer and his team outside of of Belgium and Ustanda build that with with our, our, our office in China who's on the production line getting it done and deliver it on time. Yeah, no, we we we've got a. Smart dude. I remember I had him on a podcast once and really, really, he's delightful, interesting guy. He's, he's delightful. He's big into the racing. He'd be a good one.

54:33 A lot of guys in our business are, yeah, a lot of, a lot of people in our business. It's crazy when I go to LDI or whatever, Now I have more people coming up to me in the aisles asking me about Jeremy than I do asking about gear or asking about whatever. It's it's always, hey, your kid, I follow your kids. So what's going on? You know, that's nice. You know, the drive to survive Netflix thing. So Netflix, I wanted to talk to you about this, cuz I know we're both fans of two guys who have had very controversial specials on Netflix, and you might have some insight into this, but how the hell? And so there's Dave Chappelle is is sort of at one level from a standpoint of crudeness. But this new Ricky Gervais thing, So funny story because I watched it with my girlfriend and like her niece and her niece's boyfriend and her sister and stuff. OK, that would be interesting.

55:26 They're a little less, I don't know, Republican or whatever you want to call it, than I. Am okay okay. They were like shocked, like they couldn't believe it And it's. Comedy. It is comedy. Comedy. But he just is so in your face, you know I'm woke now his whole like I'm woken, no. But God bless it, go back to the last time that he hosted, I think, the Golden Globes, where he stood up there. And. Fucking exorciated Apple and talked to him all about how if if the Taliban or ISIS. If ISIS did had a show, you'd be calling your agents. If ISIS had a channel, you'd be called calling your agents, right?

56:07 And he and he said, oh, don't come up here and don't thank your God. Just say hello, say thank you, and get the fuck off the stage. The guy is saying what I think a lot of people are thinking, but they're afraid. They're afraid to like what's? The funniest part of that Golden Globes speech was like when they flashed to, like, Tom Hanks or Ron Howard or, yeah, Tim Cook from Apple. And they were trying to like they didn't know what to do. Like they knew it was funny, but they couldn't laugh and and you know what? So rude. And they they. They would have been so much smarter to just howl at themselves. They try to look serious about all because you know what that's you know we did You and I have talked about this a little bit and and you know I'm I'm a libertarian I'm, I'm, I'm I'm pretty much down the middle but I lean towards the right towards conservative values. Yeah.

57:00 And and you know, I can have AI can have a conversation with a Democrat and I can learn something, you know, I could like, oh, I hadn't thought about that, you know, And I can have a conversation with a with a Republican or a or a libertarian or something. I always am open to learning something, right. I find that the left is really dug in and they they get, they go from zero to 100 angry. Just my perception, right. And that's and that's what happens in this comedy stuff. Like, I love it when they're taking the piss out of Republicans, or when they're making fun of Trump, or they're when making fun of, you know, whoever, right? I think it's it's it's just it's it's satire, it's comedy, it's funny and you know, God bless them, if they can't just have a good laugh, you know, if we can't laugh at ourselves, we're fucked.

57:49 Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. But I mean, so did you see the new Ricky Gervais yet? No, you told me about it. Oh my God, John, there's this. There's one scene. There's one scene that said that he's talking about don't tell me, don't tell me. No, I'm just going to tell you a little bit of it. He's talking about handicap kids and oh, I saw. It. The part of about the kid basically earning a puppy, The kid wanted a puppy and so he had to work for it. Oh my. I was like. I love. I love how he halfway through this these absolutely cringe worthy comedy. He'll go, he'll go what what he'll he'll like he'll challenge you.

58:31 You know I'm right in the. Middle of it. Yeah. You've seen it. You know I'm right. Yeah, I. Know what you're thinking. But I'm just thinking, I like in my head. I'm thinking, you know, I know where Netflix is based, I know what kind of people work there. I know who they vote for, and I know what the company generally stands for. There's got to be a room full of people who saw this and just went. No, no, no, buddy. No, it was, it was big news. Marcel, go back a couple years when Chappelle came out with his with his special that was like super in the libs face, right? They all walked out and they demanded that he be cancelled and whoever runs Netflix said go fuck yourself.

59:14 It's comedy. And I thought wow, there's somebody that's really, you know, there's there's a corporation that's got the it's like you know what, you work here. You chose you. This is our thing. You're not going to tell us how to do this. You know it's and it's it's like that. I think that's the only time I've seen some big company do something like that, where I have said fucking right on somebody over there with a with with a spine, you know. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing like when Dana White does it from the UFC, but you know, you know what his audience is like. They're all right wing, redneck. Yeah, but I but I. Watching fighting, right I but I honestly. Thought, I honestly thought Netflix, Netflix was going to fold up their tent and cancel Chappelle. And I was shocked that they said, you know what, it's free speech, it's comedy.

1:00:05 Go fuck yourself. Get back to work or you're fired. 'Cause that's how I would, that's what I would say, but. When you see, when you see the Ricky Gervais one, you'll understand. I mean it's next level stuff, this thing, you know, it's like he he just said, OK, let's see how far we can push this thing, you know, let me see how far I can go before somebody says no Ricky. Have have you seen have you he's he's got a it's I think it's like a two season series on Prime Video or Netflix or whatever it is. Where? I don't know. But he's he's he's walking by he's walking by his nephews like playground on his way to work and this little this this little chubby redheaded kids going Pito Pito you're Pito.

1:00:50 And he goes and he goes fuck you, little ginger. If I was going to fuck somebody you'd be the last one I fuck now go fuck yourself. And it's just like did he just say that it was fantastic but if you go back he he there was a you know I'm a big Gervais fan and I'm and and thanks for the tip I'm looking forward to seeing that right because we're so overwhelmed with content these days. It's like what do you watch right. I'm actually watching The Sopranos start to finish again, right? Now. Oh my God. I'm like on season 2 and I'm going, God, I don't remember. This, except for the final episode. Such a great yeah, the don't stop believing thing at the end and I just wanted to kill them for that. It was. Like, but Gervais. Gervais had an HBO show where it was him and the other two guys, I can't remember their names.

1:01:35 They were they were in a studio talking at the very beginning and as they're speaking a very slow wave comes across them and they all turn into cartoons and it's A and it's the three of them doing a podcast and they and it's probably one of the best shows I've ever seen. I you have to go look up. I think it was on HI think it was on HBO and it was like probably 15 years ago and it's him and gosh, I can't remember the other two guys names but there's the one kind of goofy guy they keep sending out to do weird shit right and he comes back Merchant. One of the guys last names is Merchant and I forget the other guy's name but you should you should actually watch it. But the beginning of it is the three of them kind of sitting there like you with the microphone around about like 1/2 moon table and it just slowly sweeps over and they all turn into cartoons and each episode is completely different. It's fucking hilarious.

1:02:32 You know, what I need is I I need our new producer Sarah to like, you know, just like Jamie on the Joe Rogan show. I need to say, hey, Sarah, look that up and then she'll come back and go, yeah, it's the Joe Schmo show or whatever. Well, that's what I thought she was doing with the. Well, no, she she wasn't. She just doesn't follow along like that. Like she's she's learning the ropes right now, so. We've been nice knowing you, Sarah. It's been nice knowing you. I can see her. So she's she's making fun of us right now. Now she's going, That guy does look like an old man. Yeah, no, I mean I I got the Ricky thing way late. Like I I didn't even really know who he was. I knew who he was to look at him or whatever. He he did some funny shows and stuff that I saw, but I really got into him either the Golden Globes thing or the first Netflix special that he did, which just completely cracked me up.

1:03:23 And then I would just became a huge fan and I'm taking any of the content. So go back and look for that show. I was telling you, that turns into a cartoon and then he's got an another show. It's it's either Prime or Netflix. Where he works in a small town newspaper and his wife has passed away and he's got these cast of characters around him and they go into these situations. It's it's almost like Curb Your Enthusiasm. Ask right. Like like he takes this he takes this. He takes this guy with him who's like the photographer, who's this, you know, really kind of frumpy, obese, kind of slow moving guy. And like they're, they're interviewing a lady who makes pudding with breast milk, right? But he doesn't know it's breast milk. And they're talking about how great this, this pudding is. And she.

1:04:10 Says would you like some? And he goes, Oh no, I'm okay. And he hears this and he looks over and the big fat guys, and he goes. You know, you sent me this clip, I'm sure, on Instagram at one of your 3:00 in the morning clips that you send me. I wake up every morning and I look at the Instagram videos that John sent me overnight to figure. Out, dude, I can't. What you've been up to, I see that I I know I talked to you at all kinds of different times. It's crazy somebody. Said Were you are you jet lagged from the last trip I got? I think I'm jet lagged from like the last 40 years. I If I get five in a row, I'm like yes. John, you're you're you're staying pretty healthy.

1:04:51 I mean, you're in your, I won't say your age, but. You're in your 65. OK, you're 65, so you know you're you're very healthy for a guy who, for the first half of his life, you know, couldn't stuff enough shit up his nose or drink enough alcohol or be destructive enough. And then plus the stress and the travel and everything that our business throws at you, you're very healthy. So is that by accident or are you? Do you have some sort of a routine, like what do you need to stay healthy? I'll tell you what, it's genes. It's just genes. You know what I like? What you buy in my stamp? Yeah, exactly.

1:05:33 No, by him, by himaloose. So, you know, it's like my my, my my mother and father. My, my father passed away in a car accident when he was like in his early 50s. So there's not too good history there. But his his family was very healthy. My mom's side of the family, you know, they were Danish, my Danish. My mom was Danish and Italian, 5050. And then my my dad was pretty much Scotch, English, Irish, right. What? Wiseman is a Scottish name, you know? And ironically, I get invited to a ton of Bar Mitzvah. It's weird I. Assume you were Jewish. No, no, no. Somewhere Jewish. You know, yeah, with all the Jewish shit going on right now, I I get drawn into it by accident because of my last name and I'm like fucking.

1:06:14 I'm fucking Scottish, you know? People said I actually. There's in Hebrew and stuff, and you're like, what is? This dude, I did the DNA test just thinking maybe that there was and it's flat out exactly what my parents told me. My my mom's half half Danish and my mom is half Italian. Her her parents were were her her dad was right off the boat from Italy. Her mom was right off the boat from from Copenhagen. And then the other side of it, the Wiseman side, they came over like in the 1600s from you know to escape whatever the fuck was going on over there. And they're they're all Midwest, you know we're all Ohio and Arkansas. And so you know, now, I mean, I've, I've, I've, I've been very lucky like my first wife who did not do drugs or alcohol. But she finally said to me, we know what, why don't you just fall down like everybody else?

1:07:05 And I said, God, you know, I wish I would and make make this a lot easier to stop and oh am I frozen again? You were for a second. It's coming back. OK. So I'm back. So yeah, I I think it's, I think it's a good gene pool. But you know what? The last 28 years I haven't had a drop of alcohol or a drug or anything else and I've tried to eat well and I I have from those good genes that I talk about. I have obese people on either side of the family. So I'm highly aware that I have to be really careful about what I eat and and some kind of thing. And I and I I I boxed off and on for about 25 years. That was a great way to keep, you know, to get the aggression out, but also to keep keep fit, right.

1:07:52 And now now I have AI have a pretty decent I try to walk 10,000 steps a day. I'm unsuccessful, but I try, yeah. And yeah, I just you know, I. I like one day when you and I have some time. You know, I've studied it a bunch. I pay a lot of attention to it. Sleep is a very, very important thing. One thing you should do this, this ring that I wear is called an aura ring. Get one of those. It's OURA and it tracks your sleep and it tracks your activity. It tracks all kinds of stuff and it does it in the background. You don't have to do anything. You charge it every three or four days or whatever, 5 days and but you start realizing what your patterns are and where you're going wrong.

1:08:33 And you know, getting 7 hours sleep a night in a row. Like, really. Change. Well, it's it's, it's it's not going to happen because of my travel schedule and the different time zones I'm in. It's just and I and I and I and I push myself because I just push myself. I can tell you what my sleep patterns are. They're completely fucked, you know? I don't need a ring to tell me that if I stayed home for. Sleep. We're trying to fix it though, John. We're trying to fix it. It it's not just discovering it by paying attention to it and looking at what's going on and then looking for improvements. You know it's it's poking you constantly to improve it a bit. Well, let me talk about that. Let me talk about the health thing really quick too, because the one thing that I have always done even when I was not behaving well is I always got an annual physical always and and and I always stayed up on that. And so it's, it's the end of December 2023, right now in September of 2022, my I went, I had my physical and did the blood test and I do the whole, I mean I do everything and the doctor says, hey, everything's great. You haven't any issues.

1:09:43 I said, well, I'm having this one kind of issue, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, you know what? You know, let's check your PSA and you know your PSA is fine. Last year it hasn't gone up, you know, and PSA relates to prostate for those who don't know. And and so he said, well, you know what, Yeah, you should be fine. So I'm going to talk to my this my doctor up here that I talked to my doctor down in LA that I've had forever and he said, let's, let's, let's do this particular test. And just just to make sure you're good. And I said, OK, So I went in. Long story short, prostate cancer. All right. That was September of 2022. And so he's like, OK, so you know, and here's here's where, here's where you have to be an advocate on your own behalf with your medical guys. You don't just like a lot of a lot of people just doctor says that he's the doctor, blah, blah, blah. My doctor said, look, here's your options now. Now you got to be a detective on your own behalf, right? You have to be an advocate on your own behalf. So, man, I just dove into it.

1:10:47 So I became the absolute authority on prostate cancer to the point to where I've had two friends that I've actually shepherded in who have been through the same procedures I've been, and they're both successfully OK now too. So yeah. So I so my doctor said read this book from a guy named Doctor Patrick Walsh. He's the he wrote the book on men's prostate cancer, a very readable book. Got it on Amazon, Read it, went through it. So this Patrick Walsh guy, he's the guy. So I call him. He's at the. He's at the, you know, people. But you just call him and go, yeah, it's a fucking human being. So I just found his phone number. I called him at, I called him at the Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, and I got him on the phone and I'm like, hey, this is my deal. You know, I want to, I think I want to get my prostate removed, but I don't want to.

1:11:40 I don't want to lose the ability to, you know, have sex. And I don't want to lose my, you know have problems with my bladder and all these other things. All the other stuff that 10 years ago automatically happened to you you you you were never able to perform. You never were able you had problems Urinate. All these things that 10 years ago we're we're now they they had fixed them through technology. Right. And this guy was the leader in the technology And I said, OK I'll fly back to Baltimore. I want you to do my surgery. And he said, well I'm I'm the last 10 years I've taught people so he's telling me about this. So I said, OK, look, I, I, I'm, he says where are you located? And I said, well, this is a karma thing too.

1:12:21 This is going to crack you up more. So I said, oh, I'm on the West Coast, so I can go to LA and go to San Francisco, what I need to do? And he goes, when they ask, he goes, what city are you in? I said I live in Reno, NV. He goes, oh, doctor Angelo Kanellis. He's one of the top three in the nation. He said he's he all he does is is this robotic surgery with the Da Vinci machine. He's your guy. He's the best guy. Are you fucking kidding me? So yeah, and it's because I had the balls probably for my sales, you know, background. I just picked up the phone and went through Johns Hopkins till I found the guy and got him on the phone. So then I do the same thing in Reno. I get this Canalis guy on the phone, I meet with him. I went to high school with the fucking guy. him and I were in Reno high together, right? And and he's like top three in the world of doing this surgery in Reno, NV.

1:13:07 And it's like, it's like that's a that's a that's a shot from God, right. So I meet with the guy, we sit down and I said, you know, Angela, I got to tell you, I just, I don't really remember. I don't remember you from high school. And he goes, well, I remember you and I went, is that a good thing or a bad thing? And he goes, no, you were always really kind, but you were pretty fucking wild. I said yeah, I said, well, he goes, John, you know, some of us had to go to class and some of us had to study. And I said, well Angela, I'm so glad you did. So Long story short, he sits down, we do it and you know, I go in. I had the surgery in December. I'm home surgery December 1. I'm home December 3rd, healed up. I'm I'm 100% back to everything normal and I'm cancer free. You know it's but it's because I did an annual checkup.

1:13:47 It's because I didn't fuck around and I and I became an advocate on my own behalf to find out what the best thing to. Do you know John? It's such an important point and and very timely because I listened this morning on my long walk. I listened to Joe Rogan's latest podcast, which is with a guy named Brigham Bueller, and I've heard him before. I've. I've learned a bunch from this guy before, but he talked about exactly pretty much what you're talking about right now, which is you have to manage your health because what your doctor is doing, what your insurance company is doing, what all of these hospitals and everybody are doing, they're managing the expense. They're basically, they're going to push you towards whatever earns them the most money and away from whatever earns them the least money or cost them the most money. And so you have to be paying very close attention. And insurance is is not really insurance. It's what did they call it?

1:14:48 They called it healthcare management. Well, it's they're all actuaries. They're they're gamblers. They're gambling. Yeah, it's not anymore now though, because they own, they own so many components of the healthcare circle, you know? No, no, no, but no. But my point is is there is it's no different than life insurance. They they, they've got, you know 10,000 accountants in a room with spreadsheets who go, OK, if we charge these guys $1000 and if, if, if, if X amount of them get sick and we're able to mitigate the costs, you know, they're they're rolling the dice is what they're doing and then they're then they're becoming the house. It's worse, though, because they own worse than. They own the fucking.

1:15:29 They own the fucking. The health. Care what if they what if they were the house casino, but they knew what your next card was because that's what these people are. So they're what they're doing. They have access to your data, so they know what your tests are showing. They know the size of your prostate, they know the last time you did whatever or what. They know what's coming, and so they know when to Jack up your rates. They know when to cut. You and the and the problem is is that is that we are we are trained to be trusting of institutions you know let's not even get into the COVID bullshit we all just went through that now has been revealed is like OK half of it was just they they they didn't know they were just talking shit but they they would stop you from working But but like the so I became an advocate on my behalf and I can't tell you how many times I said no go fuck yourself. I paid for this.

1:16:17 This is what we're going to do. My doctor's telling me this is this and you know what my my my my healthcare consultant who is blah blah blah. You know what? And what I did, Marcel, was I just ordered what needed to be ordered, and I did what needed to be did done. And when they gave me the bills, I told them to go fuck themselves and they folded and went away. That's hilarious. Nobody fights them. Seriously. Do yourself a favor. Listen to this podcast, the Joe Rogan from today or yesterday or whatever. Brigham, Brigham Bueller. I think his name is really really smart dude. He he owns like a company called something well to will to well or well to something or other but he goes outside insurance.

1:17:03 It's a it's a cash pay healthcare model and one of the other problems is they won't do tests that are, you know, longevity tests. Are OK so so let me tell you about this. This morning I was talking to a former board member who's a friend of mine from from from PRG. But this guy's this guy's involved he's like he's a partner with Richard Branson on the on this on the Virgin Galactica he's in he's into he's into everything right. So he told me he goes, I'm going to send you something that because he's he's, he's one of the top guys in this healthcare thing and he, he said there's a test and I'll pull up the name of it here.

1:17:44 He said there's a test that you can take, it's $700.00 and it will tell you what cancers you'll have before they even reach stage 1 early. Cancer screening. Yeah, I know. I know one Which is, oh God, I almost did it. It's it's not that expensive at all. And it does like it tests for 100 different things, including heavy metal. That's that's that's the one I'm talking about and he's he's on the board of that company and oh here it is the company, so the company that he's on the board. Probably Mark Mark Hyman's company which is called. He's this guy's he's the vice chairman that he's called it called it's called the Buck Institute. The Buck Institute is apparently very very famous thing and it's it's a health CHEAT SHEET and So what do you say about third one down.

1:18:45 It's a test. I don't want to eat up all your time here. I'll let you know when you can ask on, but it's it's it's a test. And he said, so he's talking to the Csos and the CTOS of these companies saying why don't you guys pay for this test? And they said, well, because you know what, this fucking blew my mind. We don't want to pay for those tests because, you know, we have a turnover of employees about every two or three years. So we don't get any benefit from finding out that they're going to be sick because they're going to be gone anyway. Jesus, think about. That That's dark. You know who else is? That's your. That's your actuary. Gary Breca, Gary Breca. Gary Breca is the guy who transformed Dana White and Dana White was like pre diabetic way.

1:19:33 Over there, I heard about this guy. Looked 100 years old. Was was literally dying slowly, right. And he put him on like I think a a six month program. He lost, I don't know 4050 lbs. Looks 15 years younger, is so much healthier. Diabetes gone, everything gone. And I'm actually doing there's he does a three day fast, which I'm doing not next week, the following week, which scares the hell out of me because I've never gone 3 days without food, so that's going to be weird. But no, it's the first couple days are the hardest. You end up with a headache or something. I've done. I did that. In hours will be the hardest. Yeah, you know there's a thing called prolong PR, PR0L 0NG and it's it's it's like a it's it's like a milkshake kind of fast, but it's soups and stuff and I and I do that every every three or four months just to like, oh.

1:20:27 Yeah, Kickstart. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was, I was hovering around. So I'm 6 foot two or I used to be. I'm think I'm a lot shorter now, but I was hovering. I would always carry 2/22/25 and there was always that you know that, that 10 fucking pounds that I hated, right? The part that you know, you put your pants and you're like God. Damn well. And it's the visceral fat, too. It's around your liver and around your heart and the bad. So I. That's the heart attack fat. So I said in March, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm changing this. I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm in my mid 60s now. I'm changing this. So I've I've dropped down to about two O 3 and I'm working out now. Well, yeah, but I had that weird thing where it's like, you know, I used to have pretty good, pretty good muscles. And I looked down, I saw wrinkly skin. I thought, motherfucker, I'm turning into that. So I've been, I've been hitting the gym. I've been hitting the gym and feeling good about it. And the thing about the gym is I hate it. I hate it when I walk in and I'm so happy when I leave because I did that, you know, It's so it's so weird because every time I'm like driving there thinking I got the too much to do and then as soon as I'm done with that, I go, man, I am so glad I did that.

1:21:33 And if I can get two weeks good going like that, the an addictive mind. I have it, yeah. I know kicks in. I have to do it. Yeah, that's how I am. If I don't exercise every day, I and you know, so I have so many friends. It's a good point. I have so many friends who walk every day or go for a run or ride their bike and they think that's enough. But the problem is when you get to be our age, this sarcopenia thing where your muscles disappear, sets in and it's very, very bad for you. And that's one of the big very negative things towards aging and makes you age faster and makes you it leads you to disease. So lifting weights.

1:22:16 Is so important. And you know, and so my doctor that I was talking about the guy down in in LA, he said OK, now that you've dropped the weight, now that you're feeling good about it, he said what you really have to do is he says you got to hit the he goes, you got to hit the gym and you got to hit the weights. And he goes and listen, I know who you are. This doesn't mean you lift weights like you're 25, he goes, you'll hurt yourself. He said get get in some medium weights, get some good reps in because you don't have to fucking be that guy you think you got to be. You kind of do, though you have to. You have to stay in your muscles and you have to build new muscle, because otherwise. It doesn't have the same effect. You should lift the heaviest weight you can. But that's the problem is that, you know, I would, I would lift I I used to lift a lot, so I would you'd go straight to. £300 don't pressing or something.

1:23:07 Yeah, I used to do that. Don't do that again, Right. Don't do that. Go go in and and and hit your hit. If you can do 12 reps with it, go up 5 lbs, right. And then and then you do 10 and you're straining and then your trainer helps you with the last two. And then then pretty soon you're doing 12 with that, then you go to the next one. Squats is the other big one. Squats like just body weight. Squats are really. Body weight squats blew my mind. I did them. My guy got me doing them. Where you go down on the bench and you're up and down. I couldn't fucking walk the next day. I'm like, you got to be kidding me. Yeah, the first day is pretty tough. Yeah, I do them almost every day. And and you know, it's just, it's stuff that, you know, here's the deal. I'm not trying to live 120 years. I'm trying to live to whatever.

1:23:54 I live to healthy right up till that point. You know, I want to drop dead after being sick for a week, not for 10 years. You know, it's like my mom's in a dementia a. Gun in your mouth. My mom's in a dementia home for the last 10 years. She doesn't know where she is, you know. I just, I just got in that test that I was talking about. I got the I got tested for the Alzheimer gene. There's an Alzheimer gene. And my my mother very much like you. I mean, it used to be you just went senile, but now there's dementia. Now there's Alzheimer's. There's different types of it. They've got it down. My mom the the last 10 years of her life was Alzheimer's and you would just watch this incredible, horrible shit show go on. It's just getting horrible to watch, right.

1:24:35 And so I I was thinking, you know, I'm always losing my keys. And I came from my wall. It's like, oh, shit, here we go. And yeah, but I've been like that since I was about 10. So it's I My doctor called me the first thing he said to me. He goes, hey, good news, you don't have the Alzheimer gene. My gosh. Shit, I must have got my dad's side of it. Thank God you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, my girlfriend because she's very forgetful and and I always poke on her, you know, going. I know what it looks like. You know, I've watched my mom and I've seen it and and and so she reads books and looks for articles and stuff and she goes see everybody. It's normal. Your brain has so much capacity and different people use different parts of the brain for different things. I don't typically.

1:25:18 I always have to put my keys in the same place, otherwise I'll lose them every single time. I've no me too. Well, keys, wallet, freaking remote, anything. You know, like I'm the guy who used to put the remote in the fridge because I was on a phone caller. I've done that to you, but I've done that too. I went looking for it one time. I found it in the refrigerator. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean it's it's completely stupid, but it's just my my brain is completely on this phone call, right? So I'm not thinking about. I'm about 5 minutes ahead of wherever I am, yeah. Yeah. So the last thing I wanted to ask you about is, you know, I know obviously a lot about your addiction and and we talked about it on one of the podcasts that you were on with me. But today, like how important, how important is sobriety today still?

1:26:07 And it's, what, 28 years? It's everything, yeah. If you if I don't have that I have nothing else after it. You know and it's and it's it's one of the you know I I get I get the pat on the back every now and then. Oh you you you work with these you know the 12th step is to take the message to other people. Right. And so the the normies think oh you what a good guy you know you're you're you're helping other people. Nah. Yeah. I mean that's the byproduct of it. What I learned very early in addiction in going through these 12 steps, and I'm passionate about the 12 steps, 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, which which are the derivative of all the anonymous programs CANA sexual addiction. Everything is of those 12 steps the only one that ever mentions alcohol?

1:26:58 Am I frozen again? No, there we go. I'm. Listening to you the the the only one that ever mentions alcohol is step one. And it says admit that you were powerless over alcohol and your life had become unmanageable. And it's like, well, that's pretty fucking easy. You know I had to borrow money to go into a rehab center. So yeah, that's I'll give you that I am powerless over this and I, and it is my life has become unmanageable. Step 2 through 12 is a road map for any human being on planet Earth, with or without an addiction, to be a good person. It's about making amends. It's about taking, cleaning up your past. It's about, you know, accountability.

1:27:38 It's it's about, you know, being there for other people. The two through 12 is an absolute wonderful road map. To just be a decent human being. It's got nothing. Yeah, it's that simple. And so for me, you know, the 12th step is is is taking the message to others who are suffering, right. And so I'm just available to people who, you know, I don't push it. I don't sell it. You know, if you ask about my own personal, you know, things I've gone through, I'm very open about it. But because that means I'm open to it, right? So if someone hears me say that, like on this podcast for instance, and you're having trouble with this, I you do whatever you want with your life, you know what? I don't give a fuck.

1:28:22 I'm not going to tell you what to do because you wouldn't listen anyway. I just happened to have learned through the kindness of others and through the God of my choice that there's a better way to do this. And so I'm open to it. And you know, in that 12 step part, if I, if I, if I'm not present, clean, sober and in a good frame of mind for myself, I can't be here for anybody else. Yeah, so. So it has. It has to be, you know, if I'm not working my program and trying to be the best person I can every day, which by the way, completely unsuccessful at it every day, but more successful than I used to be, If I if I'm not here, I can't be here for my wife, I can't be here for my kids.

1:29:11 I can't be here for my friends. I can't be here for people who might not know me. But you know, anytime anyone comes to me and says, hey, can we talk about this? I'm very blunt about it. I just say look I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm going to show you what worked for me. If you want to talk about this, I'm open to talk about it. But sobriety is Marcel. To answer your question circle back around and I'm sorry. I always give long answer. No it's good. The the The thing is is that is that if I if I don't have sobriety, I I I know what the other guy is. I don't fucking want anything to do with that man. He's a he's not a good human being. But can I ask you? Yeah, I know you say you don't sell anybody on it or anything, excuse me, but if you see someone getting wasted who is on a crew or or maybe he's not working with you, but it's someone you know or whatever.

1:30:03 Like I walked in on a bandmate one time when I had already quit doing anything bad other than drinking. And you know, I saw his, his arm was all tied off and he was just about to put the needle in his arm. And I had never seen anybody do that except at the doctor's office and I was like, what the fuck are you doing? And but like, would you, you wouldn't try to stop someone and and steer them at that point or have you tried to? Yeah, I I agree with what you say though. You're just a narc at that point, right? Like they don't. Yeah, no, I mean, you're you're, you're, you're that guy that we hated. I'm the I'm now the guy that I hated, you know? So I think, I think you lead by example and you and you do it with absolute unconditional love.

1:30:48 So what I would say So what I and I've been in situations with that where I've seen people doing that kind of stuff. I've just said, hey bro, you know what You're you're you're going to really hurt yourself or somebody else. God bless you. Do whatever you want to do. When you're ready to talk about this. I'm an open book When you're when you're ready to get, when you're. I know you're miserable. So when you're ready to not be miserable I, I, I know how you can get out of this. But God bless, Go blow yourself up. Jesus, it's a scary life. Well, it's counterintuitive. So I'll finish with one short story about that. OK. So I was at a meeting in Westlake Village, CA at the local church there. And the, you know, sometimes there's speakers means and I think I was speaking that night, There's like a 5 minute slot, a 20 minute slot and a 30 minutes.

1:31:36 So I think it was a 20 minute slot that night just to talk about you share your own experience, strength and hope, right? And you talk about your story and you, you know, I never wanted to do this. And my sponsor said you have to get up and you have to talk. You have to take a birthday cake because I don't want to take a birthday cake. I thought it's fucking bullshit. He goes, you know what? I go, why? And he goes, they have to see that if a fucking piece of shit loser like you can do it, anyone can, you have to be that guy. And I go, OK, all right. So I I, I, I, I, I give my little my little pitch that night about what what it what it used to be like and what it's like now. And that's what that's really the the pitch and it's all about my personal stuff, not talking about anyone else.

1:32:19 And so at the end of this, there's a gal comes up and she's got this kid with her who's a very famous, successful guitar player in a, in a, in a young band that was blowing up. And I knew who he was. And so she says to me, hey, this is so and so And I say, hey, how you doing? He goes, OK And he says, you know, I know he is. And she says so. So you're in the music business. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm having a really hard time. So hey, man, you know what? God bless you. He goes, he goes, so we just just a very quick meet and greet, right. So I go home the next day. I'm getting ready to go with my family somewhere. And and this is the other part about if I'm not there for myself, I can't be there for anybody else, right? This gal calls.

1:33:06 And she said, hey, remember that kid you met last night? And I said, yeah, she said, well, he stayed at me and my husband's house last night. He was on the couch and he's having a really hard time. It's the second day without drugs. Can you come, can you come talk to him? I said, absolutely, I'll be right there. So I told my wife, who got it at the time was, I said, look, I'm going to go do this, right? So I, I go over to the house and sit down, you know, and this this is a kid who's now internationally famous band blowing up more money. He knows what to do with and is absolutely fucking killing himself. Right. And so we sit down and I I sit down right in front of him on the couch and I I go, so, so I'm here man. What?

1:33:48 How can I help you? And he goes, man, you know, I just having trouble with this and I don't want to do, you know. And then he and he, you know kind of goes to the spiel and then he looks at me and he says I'd really like to get. I'd really like to get some some cocaine right now. I'd like to get some blow and I'd like to get some whiskey. And I look at him and I go, well, then, then you should go get some. You should get some blow. You should get some whiskey. He goes, what? I go, look, if that's what you really want to do, that's that's what you should do. He goes, well, why are you telling me that? I said, hey, bro, if you're not done, then you're not done. I said go fucking knock yourself out. And at that point, Marcel, the kid gets fucking livid. He starts talking to me like I'm his bitch Tour manager. He goes, hey, man, you're supposed to be fucking helping me, man. Or what?

1:34:31 Are you telling me to do this stuff for you? You're. I said, are you done? And he goes, yeah, and I go. What makes you think I give a fuck about you? He's like, what? I go, I don't give a fuck about you. I don't give a fuck. If you die right now, I don't care. And now he's like, well then why did you even come over here? I go. Let me tell you why I came over here. I said because you want what I have and I can teach you how to get what I have through a program that has saved my life, OK? I just swung by today to take a look at you and remind myself where I never want to be again. You fucking stink. You're wearing the same fucking clothes. You're shaking, You're fucking miserable. And I said fuck you.

1:35:16 I just wanted to remind myself where I never want to be again. So if you want to have what I have, I can teach you how to get. I know how to get what you have and I ain't fucking interested, but I just want to take a look at it. Today, kid changed his whole vibe. Really 100. Percent. He's he's he's still clean and sober. And that would that was 12 years. That was 12 years ago. Yeah. That's wild because I didn't wipe his fucking ass and I didn't tell him, oh God, I'll help you. I said go fucking go kill yourself. I don't give a shit. I just wanted to take a look at where I never, never want to be. And so that's the 12th step is sharing your experience, strength and hope with people. But it's also very.

1:35:57 You do it in a special way, though, John. Well, it's it's it's very selfish. It it it's, it's it literally is me seeing where I never want to be again. And it's in when you're sitting in front of this kid and and and I've done this numerous times and I'm just like, oh God, I that misery, that absolute hopelessness and despair and just just circle in the drain and you can't get out of it. How do you break the cycle? Well, breaking the cycle is not beginning. Oh gosh, let me help you. It's like fuck you because you're the only one that can do it. So there you go. That's how important it is to me. And that's and that's what I do.

1:36:37 If I if I come across it, I'm just blunt. Honest. Fucking blunt. Yeah, John, great to see you. There you go. I appreciate. You too, Marcel. Always Good man. Thanks for reaching out. I I didn't know what we were going to talk about, but you and. I always we always nothing and everything. Nothing and everything. We should do this once every friggin couple of months, nothing and everything. Sarah, nice to meet you. Take care. See you, bud. Bye, bye.