#194 - Roland Greil on designing for Rammstein, The Stones, Adelle, Genesis and more

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Thank you for joining us today
on geezers of Gear.

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Episode.
Number 194 today's podcast is

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brought to you by stratum
Productions bringing Clarity and

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order to the chaotic event
industry.

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Stratum is your single Source
Pro AV El rental and design

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resource proudly servicing shows
and special events throughout

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North America.
Founded in the Heartland, the

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company's Midwestern values,
Relentless pursuit of perfection

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and And ship driven customer
focus helps separate them from

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the rest from the first downbeat
to the final curtain call.

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Titans are committed to

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Technical Support available to

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Create immersive events that

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will leave Crews thankful and
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Please visit stratum Pro.com

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Well, hello there.
And again, thank you for joining

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me today on Jesus Gear episode
number 194.

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And so this week I believe Nam
opens.

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Today, I'm recording this on
April 13th, 2023.

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And now I'm starts today,
National Association of Music

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merchants.
And as a side story, I actually

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grew up going to that show.
I know people who know, me know

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that I grew up in the The music
retail business selling guitars

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and amplifiers, and that kind of
stuff.

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And prior to that, of course, I
was a professional musician, but

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I think I went to my first NAMM
Show around, maybe 1986 CAT5.

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Probably 84, even a long, long
time ago, and it was a different

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show back then.
I mean, it was cool.

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You'd be walking down the aisles
and bump.

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To Eddie Van Halen or all kinds
of, just crazy talented, amazing

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people.
And at the time, it was very

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hard for end-users to get into
the show.

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It was very sort of exclusive to
music retailers, and

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manufacturers.
And then, you know, invited rock

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stars and stuff.
So it was always a really,

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really cool show where you saw
lots and lots of famous guitar

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Heroes and stuff and the parties
were legendary.

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I mean, You know, Kramer guitars
used to have an unbelievable

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party where, again, Eddie Van
Halen, and all the, all the sort

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of Big Cheese guitar Slingers
from back then would play at

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these parties.
And very, very cool events to go

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to the show was amazing.
And I actually believe that I

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went to one of the very first
NAMM shows as well, where they

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started to have a lighting
section.

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And if I remember correctly,
Early.

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It was just kind of they were
scattered about and then what

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they did is now I'm decided hey
we're going to organize this and

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go after more lighting
manufacturers and stuff.

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So they created a lighting
section and the first year as I

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recall, they had it downstairs.
So you had to go to the basement

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of NAMM to try and find lighting
companies, and it was pretty,

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pretty empty down there for the
most part and pretty lonely.

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And so that was in, I'm guessing
maybe 93.

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For it was early to mid 90s and
since that time name has really

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grown to become a pretty
important show and now the

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personality Parnelli awards are
during The NAMM Show.

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And, you know, they're really
converging the musical

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instrument world with the
progear world and it's pretty

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easy for lighting to get lost in
that, you know, especially pro

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lighting because, you know, the
Big Ten.

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Twelve thousand dollar light
fixtures, don't sell in music

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stores and So I don't know that
name is the greatest show for

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that kind of stuff.
Name is a big organization and

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lots, and lots of people, but,
you know, if one out of every

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five thousand people is actually
interested in lighting, you

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know, it's a lot of expense
because you're paying the same

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amount of money that Roland and
and Fender guitars and Gibson

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guitars are paying per square
foot basically, but they

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obviously are getting 4999 out
of those five thousand people

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and you're getting one.
And so, I don't know that the

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value is great for
manufacturers, I guess we'll

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wait and see.
I know probably companies like a

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DJ, maybe even shove a mega
light, those types of companies

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that have sort of the lower end
music store types of products,

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they would do really well at
this show, as far as the top Pro

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Brands, I don't know, I'd have
to talk to them and see what

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they think, but if you're going
have fun.

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I wish I was going but I just
have to be in the office this

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week.
I was gone last week to England

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and so yeah.
I'm stuck here.

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Speaking of shows, Pro-Lite is
this month?

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April 25th to 28th in Frankfort
who's going so gear Source, I

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believe will have a presence
there.

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Sarah, who is our Biz Dev rep in
Europe, I believe Sarah will be

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going to the show so you can
connect with Sarah through Sarah

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gear.
Source.com I would expect and

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set up an appointment or
whatever sit and talk with her

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have a beer, whatever it is.
There's a great lady, she's very

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big part of our team and and
she's very thorough, so I'm sure

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she'd be happy to sit with you.
It's a great show.

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I mean, if you've been to
Pro-Lite, it's sort of like NAMM

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times five or six, you know,
they've got all of these massive

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halls and you got to take buses
between the halls and it's just,

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it's an easy show to get lost
in.

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It's a massive, massive showing
you spent half your day on buses

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or walking between these halls
and stuff, but it's a cool I'll

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show, it's a very exciting show,
a lot of fun, a lot of fun.

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After hours to, and I've been
several times, I just haven't

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managed to find a really good
reason to go back to Europe here

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in a couple of weeks so I likely
will not be going this year.

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Maybe go back next year gear.
One of our favorite topics is

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finding its way back to some
weird version of normal and so

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on gear Source.
My company we are seeing normal

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listings again.
Lots and lots more listings.

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Lots of the good stuff that for
the last two years was

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non-existent.
We're starting to see more of

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it, big sound systems, big line
array systems that you know like

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K2 systems and stuff that people
are really looking for lots more

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of the LA, a acts and stuff
coming about, which is good

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because those things just were
gold over the last 18 months,

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you couldn't get them either
from the manufacturer or from us

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and now we're starting to see
them available so that's good,

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you know I think on something
Things the prices are still up

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pretty high, but sort of stable
at this point, you know, it's

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not like prices are still
climbing and gears wildly

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unavailable and stuff like that.
It's gotten back to a point

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where if you want something you
can pretty much get it fairly

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quickly.
And yeah.

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So, I mean, we're seeing sort of
a robust uptick in business

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things are going well and it's
an exciting time.

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So, and what else did I want to
talk to you?

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Speaking of sound.
So my last podcast I believe it

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was probably 193 was with a
company out of Calgary Canada.

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My home town called PK sound,
really cool company.

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If you haven't heard of these
guys or you didn't hear the

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podcast, maybe go back and
listen to episode 193 with

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Jeremy.
Who's the founder of PK sound.

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And so, the really cool thing
that PK sound has, is it's a

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line array and you hang it
straight.

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And then You basically analyze
the room and then the system

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moves itself into a curved array
and angles itself based on what

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the settings need to be for that
room.

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So you don't have to drop it
again and adjust the bars and

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all that stuff.
It's all completely automated

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and motorized really, really
cool and you know great sounding

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stuff.
They use the same drivers as D

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and B all powered boxes really,
really, really nice stuff.

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So check out PK sound, I think
It's something that you would

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probably find pretty
interesting.

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And so today, I'm really excited
actually about the guests we

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have today.
I'm so happy that he was able to

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find the time to do this a
designer, I've been following

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for a while.
I love his work, I love the size

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of some of his work, all of his
work actually he's one of these

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guys that gets to do these
monster monster things and so

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this gentleman can be found
today working with some of Of

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the most successful artists and
shows in the world of music,

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including Adele Phil Collins
Rammstein and the Rolling Stones

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and so please welcome mr.
Rowland Grill.

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Roland.
Hello, how are you?

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Very good indeed, very good and
pleasure to be here with you

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today.
Is it morning afternoon or

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evening where you are?
It's evening actually tested our

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family dinner which is one of
the great things of being at

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home because you do your office
work during the day.

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And, and you have a lovely
family dinner and then you look

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after you yes, business, which
is perfectly slots in after the

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little one goes to bath.
So at home in Munich at the

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moment, which is cool.
Perfect, perfect.

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So you're in the city?
I remember.

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You're hearing somewhere that
you live in the mountains, or

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near the mountains, or mmm.
Basically, I grew up very much

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in a Countryside in between
Munich and the mountains.

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So I've always been a mountain
boy in our day and age a little

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bit outside of Munich and small
town, but literally I think five

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miles to the city limits of
Munich, which gives me the best

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of both worlds.
You have old amenities of

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somebody's in the big city but
when I open up my door too, My

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house, it's all green fields,
and woods and nice.

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Nice trails to walk and a good
combination, that's good.

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Yeah, I I'm a mountain guy too.
So, I was born and raised and

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grew up in Calgary Canada.
And so, I have a house just

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outside of Calgary in the
mountains and love it.

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You know, I go there for the
summer, and I'm leaving in

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another few weeks to go until
October and I just loved it up

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there.
I just A different feeling.

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Like some people love to look
out at the ocean.

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I like that too.
But I just something about

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mountains that do it for me.
Yeah, 100%.

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I mean, I even whatever that's
13 years or 12 years ago, I took

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a little break from our crazy
industry to recharge, the

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batteries, and the went to
Alaska to stay for free and a

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half months over the winter in
Alaska ago.

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No Machining and heli-skiing and
through all my dollars into

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heli, blades and had a hell of a
time.

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So, how the mountains do Do it
for me was that I was recharged

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and full steam ahead.
Alaska, hella skiing in Alaska.

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Geez, there you go like there's
a lot of hella skiing around

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where where I have my house and
I've done it not recently

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because the older I get the
harder it is to prepare my legs

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just for regular skiing.
Now you know because I can't

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ski, I can still from a talent
standpoint, I can still ski at

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the level that I did when I was
20 years.

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Old.
But from a fitness standpoint

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you know my legs are just so
tired, so quickly.

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So I just I don't trust myself
to go heli-skiing anymore.

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It's just I think I would have
an epic crash.

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Hmm.
All right.

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Fair enough.
An epic crashes have less

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appeal, the older I get, you
know, yeah, absolutely,

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absolutely.
I got you.

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Yeah, so you've been very busy.
I appreciate you taking the time

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to, you know.
Oh, to schedule this in the

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middle of all the little things
that you're working on these

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days.
So so you know, I want to if

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you've ever heard any of my
podcast, I like to kind of talk

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through a little bit about your
story, how you got into it, you

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know, I you've probably told it
before so I apologize but my

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00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,800
audience probably hasn't heard
it.

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I heard a rumor that you
actually either wanted to or

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started out as an audio guy.
I wanted to be an audio guy.

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I mean that's a long long time
ago.

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I had this come-to-jesus moment
when I was about I think seven

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or eight years old my old man
good old dad took me to a

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country western country and
western concert in the area

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00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,300
where I grew up, literally,
small gig German country and

224
00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:05,500
western, it's not at all
comparable to what it is in the

225
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:06,200
states.
Obviously.

226
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,500
Yeah.
There are those more or less

227
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:11,800
cover bands.
And it's all a very Small,

228
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,900
amateur level seen but there's a
scene and it like, is it

229
00:14:15,908 --> 00:14:20,400
American country music or is it
German similar?

230
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:24,500
Yeah, our takes on chairman,
takes an American country music.

231
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:26,900
Most of them are horrible, to be
honest.

232
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:33,700
Very cheesy and I can vary from
country out there which I really

233
00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:38,200
love and I've got a lot of
respect for, but it would say

234
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,700
80% of the country in western
brands.

235
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,700
Our country banned in Germany,
they are cover bands are playing

236
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:47,000
everything from Johnny Cash to
graph.

237
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,700
Brooks, and possibly nowadays.
Also some some using of the

238
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:55,700
younger guys out there, not
being into one in whatever 25

239
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:56,500
years now.
Yeah.

240
00:14:56,700 --> 00:14:59,900
But nevertheless that that
specific country and western

241
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:01,600
concert.
I don't remember the band's name

242
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,300
or anything little Roland sword
is sound engineer behind us.

243
00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:11,200
Mixing board actually and Ed was
aside the come to Moment where I

244
00:15:11,208 --> 00:15:13,700
said, it's like, I want to be a
sound engineer.

245
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:15,800
This is my, my plan for my
future.

246
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,000
I abandon all the plans of
getting a firefighter or race

247
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,800
car driver or astronaut or
whatever.

248
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:24,400
And I wanted to be a sound
engineer.

249
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,100
And so that was the mission from
that point onwards.

250
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:33,100
And then forward with a fast
forward of whatever 23 years

251
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:37,000
started to shoulder and build my
own little homemade Lighting

252
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,600
systems for my my room.
My kids room at my parents house

253
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,400
and Then I started to rent that
out to friends who celebrated

254
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,100
any parties or did any parties
started to work as and local

255
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:51,300
state hand and unique.
Never got paid for it.

256
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:55,200
But nevertheless, I felt like
the king of the world working at

257
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,000
and Tina Turner show.
Nevertheless, I just put up

258
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,200
10,000 folding chairs.
It was my job, but nevertheless,

259
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,000
I was merging working there.
I did other things I did, you

260
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,500
know, I was very, very small,
skinny kid when I was like, 14

261
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:16,100
15 or whatever.
And I got hired by a promoter in

262
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:21,200
Calgary Canada to work security
at concerts and I'm thinking me

263
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,700
security, little long-haired,
skinny kid.

264
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:27,500
You know I couldn't have stopped
anybody or anything from

265
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:29,300
happening.
I don't know how I got hired as

266
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:32,200
security but usually I ended up
putting away chairs.

267
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,800
Yeah.
Fair enough.

268
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,900
Lighting.
Some companies started to work

269
00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:51,000
for them to in local gigs and
round about the age of 17, 18

270
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,400
little bit before I graduated
school or finished school, I

271
00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,200
thought sound is fun, but sound
is not necessarily great of

272
00:17:00,208 --> 00:17:03,100
enough for me, it was like,
literally, because sound At

273
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:06,599
least in a lifestyle and
environment you need expertise

274
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,700
and there's absolutely no
knowledge needed to do it

275
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:11,400
without any doubts.
But it is, it's a very academic

276
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,599
process because your mission is
to transport whatever is

277
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,400
happening on stage.
Even if there's a band playing

278
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,599
or a musical or whatever in the
boss best possible, All the way

279
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,200
to to the audience and make it
making hearable.

280
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,500
I never thought of it like that
like a you know you're exactly

281
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:32,400
right.
Like sound is basically it's

282
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,900
either good sound or bad sound,
there's not creative ways of

283
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,900
manipulating, the sound or
whatever, it's good sound or bad

284
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:40,400
sound.
If you're a good sound guy or

285
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,300
girl you're going to make it
sound really good but there's

286
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:47,300
there's not a lot of creativity
to that I agree with you.

287
00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,400
That's a very, very good point.
I've never thought of it that

288
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,300
way.
I mean it's different.

289
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:53,800
If you, if you think About the
studio engineer.

290
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,700
So there's creativity degraded,
great new music and how you mix

291
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:00,600
it and now he whatever more
in-depth channeling and stuff,

292
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,200
right?
Yeah, exactly.

293
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,200
Exactly.
But the life environment at

294
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,600
least for me, it wasn't enough.
So I moved on to lighting and

295
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,200
then really pretty much worked
my way up through the food

296
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,400
chain, is like virtually from
working on small gigs around

297
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,800
here rigging lights, and pulling
cables and pushing boxes to

298
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,600
ring.
Lights and pushing boxes on

299
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:28,800
tours in Germany than on an
international scale and moved on

300
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,100
from there and some order to
programming side of things and

301
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,900
more taking thing nitty-gritty
stuff.

302
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,300
Yeah.
I'm not going to ask you your

303
00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:40,600
age but what when you got
started doing all that stuff?

304
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,500
Was that pre moving lights or
where they're already moving?

305
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:48,700
Was It was kind of the time were
like, literally moving lights

306
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:51,400
were around mostly very light is
a moving.

307
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,500
Light is a moving Even had it
was only very loud when I

308
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:58,000
started basically and they were
scanners but it was still

309
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,800
predominantly times with
generics with Parkins moles Lee

310
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,400
goes, all that stuff.
So very old-school.

311
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:12,500
And yeah, when I really got kind
of involved in the industry, it

312
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:16,400
was still amazing to have
whatever 8 scanners on your

313
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,300
tour, or on your show and it was
because again, when I started, I

314
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:24,200
was not doing well.
Soldier, Phil Collins or Genesis

315
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,800
or whatever picture shows job is
the back at that, they already

316
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:30,300
played with bigger automated
rakes.

317
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,000
Yeah, it was far off the scale
that was like, yeah, different

318
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,200
planet.
So and I'm, I'm thankful that I

319
00:19:38,208 --> 00:19:42,000
started to learn to work with
generics and move conventional

320
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,800
lighting, because it gives you a
think, a good background, and a

321
00:19:46,808 --> 00:19:50,700
lot of rules and approaches,
which you take with

322
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:53,900
conventionals and generic.
You can easily translate into

323
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:57,300
the world of I agree.
Automated lighting and make a

324
00:19:57,308 --> 00:19:58,600
difference.
Yeah, no.

325
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,700
I completely agree with you and
and I would have to say, you

326
00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:07,300
know, without shaming any
younger people or anything that

327
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,200
I generally appreciate shows
done by people who had done it

328
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,400
before without moving lights, I
generally like those shows more

329
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,900
because they use moving lights
more, I don't know.

330
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:22,900
It's just different, it's more.
Nuance.

331
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:27,700
And and unless, just in your
face, kind of, you know, moving

332
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:30,300
them, just because they can move
kind of thing, right?

333
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,300
It just seems more planned and,
and more, I don't know, creative

334
00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:41,000
more theatrical, whatever you
want to call it. 100% 100%, is

335
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,400
like I've done for the last
forever 15 years of time, quite

336
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,000
a few lectures around the world.
And what I love to say is like,

337
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,000
literally, it's not a moving
light because It has to move

338
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,300
toward, right?
It is it's an automated light

339
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:59,800
which can you can use it in
multiple focuses and in multiple

340
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,100
colors and everything.
But sometimes, having whatever a

341
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:08,100
big value or a great effect
could be awesome, but it doesn't

342
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,800
need to move all the way from
the show.

343
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:13,100
You know, it's funny takes when
I've had really, really early

344
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:15,400
Vera light people on the
podcast.

345
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,600
And we talked about that and,
you know, originally, they were

346
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,800
move in black and, you know,
when they were When the the

347
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,700
stuff for Genesis in the very
early days and you know,

348
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,500
somebody saw one that there was
a mistake or a failure or

349
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,000
something and it moved with the
light, still on, without the

350
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,800
shutter closed.
And it was like, whoa, whoa,

351
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,800
whoa wait what did I just see?
You know and once once that cat

352
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,500
got out of the bag, you know,
then it was like okay these

353
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,300
things need to move with the
light on and but that's not how

354
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:49,900
it was intended.
It was just supposed to

355
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:51,800
reposition, it wasn't supposed
to be a moving.

356
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,000
Beam.
So it's kind of a funny thing.

357
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,500
So what was your what was like
your first Big Show or your

358
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:01,800
first tour?
Or like the first thing when you

359
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,100
went?
Wow this is it like this is

360
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:05,600
really what I want to do
forever.

361
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:14,200
As a tour awesomely for Floyd.
Floyd when they took pure balls

362
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,900
in the 94, 95, something like
that.

363
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:20,100
Which has always again, as a
young younger kid.

364
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,700
Yeah, again, was, I think with
my dad back in the day because

365
00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:27,600
that obviously, what Brickman
did for them was pretty

366
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,500
outstanding, especially,
especially for that time.

367
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,800
And then obviously, I was
already kind of in kind of drawn

368
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,600
in Were any kind of technology
which was related to two shows,

369
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,300
or do the event world or show
world?

370
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,700
Don't determine world.
What about the first way of you

371
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:49,200
actually did that?
You worked on?

372
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:56,100
First, memorable thing.
The first like bigger memorable

373
00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:01,000
show or tour possibly, it was
working for a German artist and

374
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,300
I was a Lampe actually kind of
Peter maathai.

375
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,700
Big test in Germany, Austria
Switzerland sir.

376
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:13,400
Okay, nobody will know him
abroad but nevertheless, he

377
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,500
feels Arenas and back in the
day, he even filled stadiums

378
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:21,600
over here as a germanized.
The German artist.

379
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,300
Yeah.
And I was out on the road as the

380
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,400
simple lamb.
People think well, I'll a

381
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,800
reading lights and the show was
done by my by now.

382
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,200
Dear friend couldn't exactly the
term old German.

383
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,500
LD again, somebody's in big in
the German Market.

384
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:40,500
Never really made it out of the
German Market or didn't want to.

385
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:42,900
Yeah.
And he did a fabulous job

386
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:46,700
because he picked on especially
what we just said.

387
00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:48,500
A little very theatrical
approach.

388
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:50,600
Like literally lights, don't
need.

389
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:53,100
Move.
It's all about Great Looks and

390
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:56,800
in the combination chest, there
was some magic in it because the

391
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,000
lighting is created and it was a
simple but still good-looking

392
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,800
set design combined with the
music which was performed in a

393
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,500
very cool way.
Was just one of those magical

394
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:12,600
moments which he again kind of
convinced me 100% of done the

395
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,300
right decision to not go to
university and take or do a

396
00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:19,500
study in get a doctor or
something like that.

397
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,600
And at the end, End of the day
like literally convinced come my

398
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,200
way and it showed me where I
want to head, I mean, was always

399
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,200
this step-by-step process
because when you're working on

400
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,100
those tours, then you obviously
looking at when I get back

401
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:35,000
behind the board at some point
and you want to program it and

402
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,400
then you do that.
And then, you start to look,

403
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:40,500
look out in the world and see
that.

404
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,100
Obviously, in terms of the life
entertainment Market, decide of

405
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:49,500
Ramstein, Germany is very much
or Germany.

406
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,800
Switzerland, Austria is Much
main cloth or a very small

407
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,800
Market because you've got bigger
acts over here and they fill

408
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,300
stadiums and they feel Arenas,
no problem, but they do it

409
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,100
within the free German speaking
countries.

410
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:06,400
Such as Germany, Switzerland and
Austria.

411
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,800
Yeah, so we are not necessarily
the hot spot for the

412
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,000
international touring, senior,
International live

413
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,300
entertainment.
See ya.

414
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,400
So you, you obviously, I could
kind of very much attracted to

415
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,000
work in, either in the UK, or in
In the u.s. to get leave that

416
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,000
bubble of Germany into work, for
some bigger names and choose

417
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,900
improper touring where you're
out on the road for a year or

418
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:31,500
travel around the world.
Yeah.

419
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,700
And it was all those steps and
then I moved on and I mean I've

420
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:38,600
always been a little little kind
of had the luck at the right

421
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,500
moments of time to meet the
right people who gave me chances

422
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:46,500
and we took me under their wings
and gave me chances to break out

423
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:50,500
of our national Market into the
more International Market.

424
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:53,700
I'm guessing it was more than
just luck, you know, I've read a

425
00:25:53,708 --> 00:25:56,600
lot of things about you and
heard some interviews and stuff

426
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:04,500
and people tend to really be
sort of attached to just your

427
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,000
general attitude and how nice of
a person you are, how easy you

428
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,000
are to work with and how good
you are to work with.

429
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,000
And I think that you know, and
I'm going to sound really old

430
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,300
but young kids these days really
need to learn that like they

431
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:21,700
need to learn first of all that
That you should say yes.

432
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:23,500
A lot.
You know, you should you should

433
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,200
always try and figure out a way
to do it.

434
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,400
If somebody asks, you do you
know how to do this?

435
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,200
You should say oh yeah, yep, I
can do that and then go figure

436
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,800
it out really quickly.
Right.

437
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Yep.
Within safety.

438
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:38,600
You know, boundaries of course,
but but the other one is, you

439
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,800
know, pardon my French but don't
be an asshole.

440
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,700
Basically, you know, be a nice
person and in hundreds of people

441
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,900
want to work with and share a
bus with God forbid or or

442
00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:51,800
whatever.
You seem to be one of those

443
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,300
guys.
And, and I think that obviously

444
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,500
helps absolutely, I tried my
best and I mean, thanks God.

445
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,000
Again, I learned, I had to be
honored to learn from quite a

446
00:27:02,008 --> 00:27:04,400
few.
Really good people, but learn

447
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,200
obviously the, the craft of
either programming or designing,

448
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,900
or working, as a Lampe back in
the day, it doesn't matter.

449
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:17,500
But I were foremost, I also
learned how to to act and behave

450
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:20,400
within our industry and how to,
I think.

451
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,600
The high go up in the ranks.
If you can say, that way the day

452
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,900
by day, gets more important to
be in Humble, nice human being.

453
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,600
And, yeah, it's more about the
political things and also

454
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,100
accepted some point.
That ultimately, we are all

455
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:41,200
service providers.
We are, you know, the role of

456
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,000
Designing Big Show's.
Yes, you are a creative.

457
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,500
Yes, you are a designer but
you're not an artist.

458
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:50,400
Yeah, I understand.
Yeah.

459
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:54,900
It's never about us or nearly
never about us except you're

460
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:58,600
doing whatever one of those
lighting festivals where you

461
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,600
lied to Red Square in Moscow.
Or yeah, something like that.

462
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,400
There you pause the light in the
middle of.

463
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,000
Yeah, exactly.
No, it's funny.

464
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,700
I there's a few designers I
could mention who do think that

465
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,600
there are they artists, you
know, and I won't mention who

466
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,700
they are, but everyone knows
some of them for sure.

467
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,400
But I mean, you're exactly
right.

468
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,300
You know, just being humble and
and being a A nice enough

469
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:23,100
person.
But the other thing that I've

470
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:27,800
read about you was, you know,
your management of budgets to

471
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,900
like, you know, sometimes I know
designers, who say, well,

472
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,900
absolutely not, if I can't get
those hundred fixtures, I cannot

473
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:39,100
make this show work, you know,
and you seem to be the guy who

474
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:41,000
says, okay.
Well, you know, if we're losing

475
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,400
x amount of dollars from the
budget, you know, let me figure

476
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,900
out what I can do.
And yeah, you just make it work,

477
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:52,100
right?
100% And I I mean in my in my

478
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:55,400
opinion, or in my point of from
my point of view, the work

479
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,300
design is by delivered by
definition, an art form that

480
00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:01,800
technically needs to work.
And that all obviously means

481
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,200
that it needs to technically you
work within the reserve that

482
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,600
kind of the restraints you have
in terms of Irina size venues I

483
00:29:09,608 --> 00:29:13,700
have something that can put.
It also obviously indicates our

484
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:17,100
includes that.
It needs to work within a given

485
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:23,300
budget and it's very important.
I think that's 100% because it

486
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:27,200
doesn't matter if you're doing a
small theater project or if you

487
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,600
doing some of the biggest
touring shows out there

488
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,900
Rammstein or something like that
or Genesis, which I had the

489
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:38,000
honor to do but even they are
you there is a budget limit.

490
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,000
Especially nowadays is that is
our especially the music

491
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,400
industry has changed.
As most of the artists are

492
00:29:43,408 --> 00:29:47,000
nearly all the artists nowadays
make their money by doing live

493
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,400
shows and any kind of album was
always more to promote New, Life

494
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,000
shows the opposite way round is
here, I think as it has been.

495
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,600
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

496
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,200
You see where you toward to sell
records?

497
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,400
Now you you tour to make money
and selling records is just sort

498
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,500
of an art form.
It's not really a profit Center.

499
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,400
So absolutely, so unless you
Taylor Swift, I guess Taylor

500
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,100
Swift.
Yeah, money on everything she

501
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:17,800
touches.
But yeah, it's a exceptions to

502
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,200
Giroud to the rule.
Yeah, for sure.

503
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,200
So, how do money so you've got
to deliver within your

504
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,000
restrained, of course?
Yeah.

505
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,700
Now, and again, I mean, don't be
an asshole, be a nice person

506
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:33,000
that that people want to tour
with and want to be around and,

507
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:36,900
you know and you know, I read
that I don't know if it was on

508
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:39,900
your website or something, but I
read lots of, you know, just

509
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,200
testimonials and comments from
people just saying, you know,

510
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:47,700
he's just a great person and you
know that matters.

511
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,100
I mean, because in our industry
there are some who are not

512
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:54,900
unfortunately.
So so, you know, I'm

513
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:56,600
fast-forwarding a little bit, I
think.

514
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,900
But, well, first, I want to ask
you, you know, you went from

515
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:05,700
being what, you're calling a
Lampe to being a programmer.

516
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:08,100
I guess what was the first
console?

517
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,300
That you programmed?
Very first console, very lucky.

518
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:17,500
You won't know it is from JB or
it was on a generic side.

519
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:23,800
It was I thinking Eva lights and
sapphires or 120 Channel

520
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,500
console, which just got the
makes onboard.

521
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:32,600
So, in my very early days, we
still used analog consoles.

522
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:35,700
Nevertheless, the index was
around already, so it was not

523
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:40,400
before that time in terms of
intelligent automation, mated

524
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,800
lighting isn't shabby lighting
something, which was a very

525
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,700
small controller.
I remember that all.

526
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:50,800
Yeah, or the scan Commander then
Stan Commander obviously,

527
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:53,500
exactly.
Moving on to them a dance game

528
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:58,000
commander and then there's the
whole industry progress, we all

529
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,500
promised to hold up to spec.
Basically, a very short stem,

530
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:05,900
don't talk one but that wasn't
really in.

531
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:09,400
That was also the time when this
thing was out, I wasn't really

532
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,500
in the Sure.
Yeah, I talked to was the one

533
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,300
where?
My programming career really

534
00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:16,100
started.
Yeah.

535
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:18,300
God with yeah.
Hug to.

536
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:20,600
I've talked about this with
other people before, but hog,

537
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,600
too.
I think changed the industry in

538
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,700
that programmers were suddenly
being paid as programmers, you

539
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:32,600
know?
And, and it became like a real

540
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,600
art form.
And a real, you know, a job

541
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,600
where you could actually make a
better day rate than just being

542
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,500
a lighting Tech or whatever.
Right.

543
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,600
And yeah, yeah.
Hog to seem to really change

544
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,600
that.
And I remember people, you know,

545
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,200
it became a marketplace where it
was like, hey, do you know any

546
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,300
hog programmers do you know any
hog programmers?

547
00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:54,400
And, you know, I was always
connecting programmers with

548
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,900
shows who needed programmers and
stuff.

549
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:00,600
So yeah, hog to seem to change
that.

550
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,600
So, I mean, in Germany, do you
even have a choice of console

551
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,800
anymore or is it just an MA
console and that's it.

552
00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:16,100
And nowadays, I think Tamar, the
market is pretty much dictated

553
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:18,800
by Ma.
I mean, there are still a few

554
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,400
others out there.
There are few chances consoles

555
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,500
out there that are very lucky.
A few Flying Pig consoles out

556
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:30,400
there, but pretty much at least
at a certain scale of show.

557
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,500
Yeah.
Is the same as anywhere in the

558
00:33:32,508 --> 00:33:33,100
world.
Yeah.

559
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,600
Yeah.
The weapon of choice is an MA.

560
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,900
So our um, a two or a three I
mean, as I don't program that

561
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:46,200
many shows by myself anymore, to
be honest in the only show in

562
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,700
the last whatever 56 years, our
program by myself was also the

563
00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:52,100
video game gun stones, and still
program by myself?

564
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:56,200
Yeah, I stayed with them, a two
to a certain degree because it

565
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,800
did everything for me and known
entity fun.

566
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,300
Exactly.
And it's I think them a free

567
00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:05,400
platform will be great and is
already great and will be

568
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:11,900
absolutely The Next Step.
As with a lot of things you need

569
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:18,000
time to, he's stopped, I didn't
learn it, you know, dive into it

570
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:20,500
and make it work and then you've
got to use it.

571
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:25,199
I mean, there's this, you've got
to have to be in the saddle and

572
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,300
use it to, to really get
efficient on it.

573
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:31,000
Yeah, yeah.
People people have such opinions

574
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,500
on that.
I love to ask the question

575
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:35,900
because, you know, like, I know
some people who are very

576
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:40,100
qualified, very fast programmers
on the ma to, and Muscle memory.

577
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:42,600
You know, you know, every
movement that you need to make

578
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,500
it's all muscle memory.
You've done it so many times and

579
00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:48,900
ma3 you have to stop everything
and think about it and you got

580
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,699
to do things and it's a
different syntax and all of this

581
00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:55,800
stuff and so it's it's not that
it's better or worse.

582
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,300
It's just, you know, an
annoyance, right?

583
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:01,100
Because they're just so used to
it, right?

584
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,400
So the big difference, if you
compare it, when it all changed

585
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,800
from ma 1 to M A 2 and that will
still my Heavy programming days.

586
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,100
Basically.
Somewhat, 10 years ago, we hit

587
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,700
every limit you can with ma-1
consoles.

588
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,500
So, they were just on the limit
in terms of performance and what

589
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:23,400
they could do.
And what you could achieve of

590
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,900
them and you've built systems,
which were really not stable

591
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:30,800
anymore because they were just
out of their comfort zone.

592
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,300
And yeah, there was a need to
move on to em.

593
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:36,200
Ay, 2.
Because the ma to platform add

594
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,100
more performance.
You, it was the better tool.

595
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:42,900
To program this size of Rick's,
we were there back in the day,

596
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:46,200
controlling that is slightly
different.

597
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,500
I think for 95% of all shows
around the world doesn't matter

598
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,800
in which part of the industry,
without any problem, you can run

599
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,000
it on to.
So it will tie take a little

600
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,800
more time.
And as you say, the muscle

601
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,500
memory is the one thing.
But it's also about finding the

602
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,600
time and also the motivation to
learn them from you.

603
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,700
If you don't need to learn
something new.

604
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,800
They will do it because it will
be better.

605
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,000
Progress.
Has all their ideas were are

606
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,900
good so well it's also the ma to
consoles are going to be dying,

607
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,600
you know, because they can't
they can only support them so

608
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,000
long and so people are already
running.

609
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,400
Ma threes with ma to software.
A lot of them obviously, and

610
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,300
eventually, I think it's just
going to make so much sense and

611
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:39,100
a lot of the designers I talk to
now have already switched over.

612
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:43,200
In there on ma3 now, you know,
they just took some downtime

613
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,800
figured out the console, got
comfortable with it, and went

614
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,500
out and toured with it.
You know, we also really bad

615
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:53,400
timing thing I think for for ma
lighting because of covid, you

616
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,600
know, right when they came out
with the console, everyone stop

617
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,300
touring.
So nobody was using it and you

618
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:04,400
know, so it was a very
problematic time for that to

619
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,400
happen.
Not that I feel sorry for them

620
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,600
because now they're selling as
many consoles as they can

621
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,600
produce.
But yeah.

622
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:18,000
So when did you how like
obviously it was a very good

623
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:23,800
luck thing or a very positive
thing that you connected with

624
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:29,200
Patrick and Adam and so how and
when did that take place?

625
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,500
Whoo, it's a good time for some
question because I can't tell

626
00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:38,500
you exactly how it happened.
I first of all, I connected with

627
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:42,800
that and that's somewhat by now.
I think nearly 20 years ago, or

628
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,500
something like that, or 18
years, but we didn't work

629
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:48,900
together to start with if it's
like, literally, we stayed in

630
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:54,100
contact and we thought we liked
each other and down the road.

631
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,700
When Adam was then heavily
working for, Patrick is his

632
00:37:56,700 --> 00:38:00,100
associate in co-designer, the
running his own entity back in a

633
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,900
There was a need for some
visualization work at Patrick's

634
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:08,700
and for showing Brazil or
something like that it was.

635
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:13,600
And in those days I did quite a
bit of visualization work for

636
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,500
myself but also for other people
with wysiwyg and then later on

637
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:19,500
reviews provision and things
like that.

638
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:24,400
So it all started with Adam who
have been in contact Loosely

639
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,300
over the years putting me in
touch with Patrick to do a bit

640
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:31,500
of reading.
Enduring when visualization work

641
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:36,400
for him and we did that and that
kind of worked out well.

642
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,600
So we did more, I did more
resilient Nation work for them

643
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,600
and ultimately that led to the
next step ultimately to that

644
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,000
they needed somebody the
lighting director or programmer

645
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,100
for a very small show and then
we jump into that that water

646
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:57,100
together, and try it out that
water together to work on a real

647
00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:59,300
show.
Not only putting renderings

648
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:02,600
together, It seems that it
worked out as well as well.

649
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,000
And also we figured out that
from a personality standpoint,

650
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,300
we ticked and it all grew from
there.

651
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:15,800
And that was literally.
Now, first show was about 15

652
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,100
years ago. 16 years somewhere,
round about that region when we

653
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:25,700
successfully run and yeah, and
literally from from small shows,

654
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:30,000
it evolved into bigger shows and
evolve.

655
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,400
First of all, to just, take out
shows for them.

656
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,900
Who were somebody else program?
Then I got more on the

657
00:39:34,908 --> 00:39:40,300
programming side, moved on to do
the design, work for them work

658
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:45,100
as an associate up to the point
like projects would like

659
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:50,000
whatever Rammstein or are
Genesis which we code is on

660
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,700
door.
So you literally mean Patrick

661
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:56,000
co-designed, and I'm very
thankful for for both of them.

662
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,100
Adam as well as Patrick because
they've been first of all, sir.

663
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Were influential in my career
there and they opened up doors

664
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,900
and I mean, obviously to put
whatever Rolling Stones on your

665
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:12,000
credit list and having worked
with those guys open stores to

666
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,200
other projects internationally.
Yeah.

667
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,800
And opens up the door to the
wider world and is out of all

668
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,200
that foremost, I learned a lot
from them.

669
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,800
I learned a lot about lighting
as well as about.

670
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,000
I can't imagine.
Yeah, how does that work Tocco?

671
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,000
Designing a A show like the size
of Rammstein with with Patrick

672
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,900
Woodruff, you know, are like,
who sends the first idea?

673
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:41,000
And then, how does that?
Is it a collaboration?

674
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,900
Is it, you know, he just kind of
gives you really high level

675
00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:47,400
stuff and then you send it back
to him with all the details

676
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:53,300
filled in or how does it work on
every project?

677
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:58,400
Some sometimes I'm some possibly
not so much but there are some

678
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,900
projects.
He's got a big eyed He's got the

679
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:05,100
high-level idea.
And you just kind of Refine it

680
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:09,200
and give it some life.
Yeah, on other shows like

681
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,500
whatever ramps a instance we all
we all started on a or even

682
00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:18,400
Genesis we started on a clean,
white canvas and the good thing

683
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,800
is they were both able to I
think switch off our our egos

684
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,600
and just play that creative
ping-pong and ultimately in this

685
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,800
is also the take on any project.
I do which I've learned over the

686
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,800
years, it doesn't matter who's
got an Idea as long as the idea

687
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,900
is, this is beneficial to the
show or to their project here in

688
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:43,900
on that ski.
And then if you, if you can

689
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:47,300
switch your ego off at that
point of time in The Wider

690
00:41:47,300 --> 00:41:50,200
group, as well, with the set
designer, a production designer

691
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,200
with the production manager,
everybody in the perfect world

692
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,900
with everybody and sit around a
table and chest.

693
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,800
Do some brainstorming and share
ideas and played a ping-pong.

694
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:04,900
That is a great breeding ground
for great ideas to grow.

695
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,500
Yeah, to really create some
magic and this is exactly.

696
00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:13,100
I mean, one of the cool things
about the collaboration I had

697
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:17,700
with Patrick over the years it's
like actually that we when we

698
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:20,200
co.design stuff it was always on
that level and there's like

699
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,400
literally it was like playing
ping pong.

700
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,900
He had an idea.
Greg, let's do it this way.

701
00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:26,900
I had an idea.
All right it shouldn't put it.

702
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,500
That way and I'll give you ever
say no to one of Patrick

703
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:35,700
woodruff's ideas.
Honestly I'm I'm an honest

704
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:39,300
person so we are all humans and
even the Patrick would have

705
00:42:39,300 --> 00:42:42,800
sometimes possibly at least in
my eyes at that point of time

706
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:46,700
has got an idea which is not the
greatest I think or is possibly

707
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:51,400
a wrong wrong way to go and it
suggests it's an open discussion

708
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,400
board without any ego.
So there's nothing wrong about

709
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,000
saying no to some some.
Yeah, or at least share your

710
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,100
opinion about it in vice versa,
if you, if you here.

711
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,500
Here at that level to share
ideas away that your you also

712
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:11,700
can criticize or be criticized.
And it's perfect because it's

713
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:13,800
just so interesting, though.
Because Patrick is such a

714
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,300
legend, you know, Patrick has
done this at such a high level

715
00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:20,200
for such a long time.
So, I would think that I'd be

716
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,900
sweating a little bit and maybe
shaking and saying, but Patrick,

717
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:26,400
do you think maybe this would be
a better idea?

718
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:34,600
And then like, don't hit me, you
know, Things about my dear

719
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,600
friend, Patrick is like he's
been without any doubt.

720
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,300
Very successful over a very long
period of time.

721
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,900
Possibly one of the most
successful out there, at least

722
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:47,000
over the years.
Yeah.

723
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:49,800
But nevertheless, he's a human
being and he's a great

724
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,700
character.
He's most of the times down to

725
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:58,300
earth, so it's It's a great
relationship which I really feel

726
00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:02,500
humbled that we were able to
create this, good relationship.

727
00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:05,800
And so obviously you still
doesn't start that way.

728
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,700
It builds over the years and
yeah, one probably you earned

729
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:15,000
that his trust and respect very
early on and that carried you

730
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,800
through there like he knows when
rolling brings an idea to the

731
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,100
table, it's probably not a
stupid idea.

732
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:24,000
I'm going to listen to it and
then maybe add my color to it or

733
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,200
whatever.
But You know you're going to be

734
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,000
treated as an equal.
Not as not as you know, a junior

735
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,100
designer or something but what
was I going to say?

736
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:39,200
So if I look at a video of
Genesis or a picture of Genesis

737
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,900
like are there elements that you
could point out and say that was

738
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:45,900
my idea that was Patrick's idea
that was my idea or did it all

739
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:51,500
just blend together?
As well as I would say.

740
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:54,900
It's better both moment in the
show is like this is quite a few

741
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:56,600
things where it all Blends
together.

742
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,500
Yeah, there are moments, which
is or even possibly sometimes

743
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:05,700
songs or PODS of the show with a
good family that was done by

744
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:07,500
myself and there's parts of
this.

745
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:09,800
Her actually, that is Patrick
thing.

746
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,200
Yeah, but again, ultimately down
down the road.

747
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,400
It doesn't matter because as
long as you achieve a great

748
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,500
result, or a better result by
sharing thoughts, and Hiring

749
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:24,000
creative ideas.
We can only be better, I think.

750
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,900
Yeah.
So for both ends, ultimately,

751
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:30,000
Yeah, that's that's really cool.
So, you know what?

752
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,900
Like maybe from earlier on maybe
from Recently, but what's like

753
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:39,000
some of the big things or one of
the big things that you learned

754
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,900
from working with, you know,
Patrick Woodruff with a legend

755
00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:47,400
like, what's, what are a couple
of the biggest things that you?

756
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:52,500
You have taken away from that.
Possibly the biggest thing

757
00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:54,700
overall.
I've taken away from my

758
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:56,700
long-term relationship and
friendship.

759
00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:00,200
Chip with Patrick is how you
really kind of sell yourself,

760
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,700
how you behave, how you deal
with your clients or artists, or

761
00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:09,000
you talk to them, how how you do
all these communication birth?

762
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,700
Because, I mean, it's quite an
interesting part on bigger shows

763
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:18,000
and the bigger shows I getting
the less you're really

764
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,400
designing, is if you're in the
role of a co-designer or lead

765
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,200
designer.
Yeah, because you're more and

766
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,800
more slipping into the role of
this political The interface

767
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:31,900
between the end client who could
be one artist, or it could be a

768
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:33,200
group of people.
Yeah.

769
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:39,500
And basically, the team, which
is really doing the work, which

770
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:42,100
is programming it or your
associate is einar who makes

771
00:46:42,100 --> 00:46:46,400
meeting really work and being
that interface and and being

772
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,700
that person, what I've learned
to do, you always?

773
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:54,600
It's got a good overview over
the bigger picture so it's not

774
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,700
only that moment it's never only
about lighting.

775
00:46:57,700 --> 00:47:00,500
It's always the bigger picture
which includes all visual

776
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:08,100
elements and it and again also
that The most important part of

777
00:47:08,100 --> 00:47:11,700
any show is not our lighting or
not our production design, or

778
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,900
nor our, whatever special
effects, it's the guy who's on

779
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:20,500
deck or on the stage or the
group or whatever it is.

780
00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:26,400
Those are I think the few things
I really, really appreciate or a

781
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,700
really took away from ya working
with somebody who's been

782
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,900
successful over such a long
time.

783
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:36,100
Yeah that's that's amazing.
I mean what I say you know,

784
00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:40,800
again what a killer opportunity
and and, you know, you bring so

785
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,600
much to the table as well, but,
you know, it's just such a

786
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,200
killer opportunity to pair a
pair up with somebody at the

787
00:47:46,207 --> 00:47:50,800
level of Patrick Woodruff, you
know, he's like you said,

788
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,500
arguably the biggest name, you
know, for a very, very long

789
00:47:55,500 --> 00:48:03,300
career and and he he has sort of
risen out of just the stones

790
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:06,400
being the stones designer, you
know, like I think That was one

791
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,900
of the things that Brickman,
maybe had a little trouble with

792
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:13,100
is getting away from being Pink,
Floyd's, lighting designer, and

793
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:18,900
creating a new Mark Brickman,
when Pink Floyd disappeared and

794
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,300
where Patrick Woodruff has been
very successful, you know, even

795
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:24,700
into some architectural projects
and things.

796
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:28,500
He's been very successful.
So yeah, that's cool.

797
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:33,400
You were you were like a really
early Pioneer in the use of

798
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,500
servers, right?
I would say so, yeah, it was a

799
00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:42,500
Pioneer, don't know, but for
sure, one of the first guys who

800
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,200
played around with video or the
integration of video into the

801
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,400
lighting world and merging those
two worlds.

802
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:54,000
And yeah, I will get somewhere
late nineties 98 to 99.

803
00:48:55,100 --> 00:48:58,800
That's pretty early started.
We started to play around with

804
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,300
very, very rudimental, Vijay
tools and triggered videos by

805
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:07,800
midi keyboards, which we put
next to Claudia, you notice.

806
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,500
It's out a whole idea, started
because we wanted to have

807
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,600
control over that and got
involved with rigid police their

808
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,100
land in the UK food, and later
on create a catalyst.

809
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,900
Yeah.
Possibly one of the very first

810
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:24,400
uses of catalysts or however it
was.

811
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,200
It was cold, Sam's called
something like that before it

812
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,800
was pull Catalyst and I
imported, and to start to really

813
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:37,500
control video from a lighting
board and because Then I thought

814
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:41,500
he's in the early in my career,
that it's whatever we create,

815
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,500
it's not only about lighting.
It's also the video part.

816
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:49,200
It's just that part.
It's all one thing and nothing

817
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,200
against vidiots, but there are
very at least.

818
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,100
Back in the day, there were more
very much about their world and

819
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,900
water LED screens.
Now put the brightness up to 11

820
00:49:59,900 --> 00:50:02,200
and you don't see any lighting
anymore.

821
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,400
So there was no real kind of
Really working together of those

822
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,600
two visual elements.
So we re I really like the idea

823
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,800
of getting more control of
video.

824
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:19,800
And yeah, we I mean and nowadays
it has progressed so much.

825
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,400
And again, with what I've done
over the last five to ten years,

826
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:30,000
I possibly it overtook me big
time but we started back in the

827
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,700
day.
There's definitely paid

828
00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:35,500
dividends now because there's so
much amazing.

829
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,800
Out there from different
companies where disguise on the

830
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:44,200
hippo and however, they all cold
and has really formed and own

831
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,200
industry within the industry.
Yeah, media server programmers

832
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,900
and all the stuff they're also
doing this merge between servers

833
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:56,600
and VR and AR and he has great.
Yeah.

834
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,000
Now it's going to be interesting
to see where some of that

835
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,300
technology goes like where you
have like multiple formats

836
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:08,400
happening where people Are
wearing goggles at a concert or

837
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,100
you know just different things
like that.

838
00:51:10,100 --> 00:51:15,000
Like I can see this getting just
nuts over the next 10 years, 15

839
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,400
years and consoles programming
themselves.

840
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,700
I was talking to somebody about
that on a podcast.

841
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:23,400
Recently, you know, with all the
advancements in AI, it's not

842
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,800
going to be very long before the
design or just talks to the

843
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:32,600
console and the console programs
itself, you know, I'm sure it's

844
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,500
coming soon, you know, probably
within the next couple of years

845
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,900
Years.
So video.

846
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:43,300
You know, what would your
opinion?

847
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,800
And I know you you're
interesting because you cross

848
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,200
over like you're you do video
for the stones, you're a

849
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:54,700
lighting designer more or less
video like do we need more or

850
00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:59,400
less video again it all comes
down to what kind of show you

851
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,700
want to create and what kind of
artist you've got on on the

852
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:07,100
deck, there are shows modern
shows whatever any one of the

853
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:09,300
younger pop artists where it is
every ride.

854
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,800
In the world to create this very
digital feel of using video as

855
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:18,100
scenery and creating massive
screens.

856
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:21,700
Nevertheless, if you then if you
on the other end of the

857
00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:25,000
spectrum, think about a proper
rock band or metal band,

858
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:28,300
whatever.
Rammstein is a great example.

859
00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:32,100
Because in Ramstein things God
we work with them band who

860
00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:36,000
doesn't like video at all which
is I think a perfect fit because

861
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,100
that kind of music that kind of
stuff there.

862
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:44,700
Trying to produce if anything
but digital, it's very analog.

863
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:46,700
It's rock and roll straight in
your face.

864
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,500
So you want to have a big
massive architectural set and

865
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:53,700
you want to have really strong
lighting, you want to have pyro

866
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:57,600
effects but what you don't want
to have it or achieve is a huge

867
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,400
television screen, which yeah,
again, it wouldn't wouldn't be

868
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,000
the right tool.
It always comes down.

869
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,700
And I mean, if I, if I have a
general take on design, anyway,

870
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,100
it's not technical to Odd with
because you design a show or you

871
00:53:12,100 --> 00:53:16,500
design a basic look for a show,
you've got this image in your

872
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:21,400
head or possibly as a sketch on
your Sketchbook or possibly as a

873
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,800
render doesn't matter.
But you've got to certain look

874
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:28,800
you want to achieve and this
look then dictates what kind of

875
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:34,000
tools are needed and it could be
video but it could be no video

876
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,300
at all.
So there's yeah again it all

877
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:42,500
comes down what the job needs.
Not not just used to video

878
00:53:42,500 --> 00:53:45,000
because video is cheap a
nowadays and you couldn't could

879
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:50,000
afford whatever a few hundred
square meters of LED wall.

880
00:53:50,500 --> 00:53:53,300
And there's great amazing video
products out there.

881
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:56,300
Transparent screens with high
resolutions in our days and

882
00:53:56,300 --> 00:54:00,500
lightweight screens and stuff
which even kind of as flexible.

883
00:54:00,500 --> 00:54:04,900
And you can do lovely curve But
ultimately that doesn't matter

884
00:54:04,900 --> 00:54:08,700
if it's a video a lot.
And in my opinion never use

885
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,800
Elegy for technology sake, it's
all about using technology for a

886
00:54:13,808 --> 00:54:16,500
reason.
The reason is always too great.

887
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,100
Look, you're striving for or you
want to achieve.

888
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,100
Yeah, but so, you know, it's an
interesting topic and again, I

889
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:26,100
hate to keep bringing up Mark
Brickman's name, but we had this

890
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:31,800
conversation where, you know,
the younger pop bands, like you

891
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,200
said, they'd love to have this
visual element and and lots of

892
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,300
movement, and colorful things on
the screens and lots of screens

893
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,200
Oh, and maybe that fits really
well, but when you get to a

894
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,800
classic artists like the stones
and you know, so I happen to

895
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,000
love the design with the like
for big iPhone video screens,

896
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,300
right?
And but I was talking to

897
00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:57,100
Brickman about it and Brickman
said, I had a bit of a problem

898
00:54:57,100 --> 00:55:00,600
with it, and I said, why?
And he said, because those video

899
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,000
screens made Mick Jagger look
small.

900
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:08,200
And he had a very interesting
point because when you look at

901
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,900
the stage, you see this tiny
little Mick Jagger.

902
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:14,700
And then you see these huge
images of like stuff on the

903
00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:18,400
screens.
And so, you know, he said, I

904
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,100
would be fine with those screens
if they were, I mag.

905
00:55:21,100 --> 00:55:24,900
But because they were sort of a
combination of all kinds of

906
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:27,200
things.
It just tended to make Mick

907
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,400
Jagger look small.
So, it was an interesting

908
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,300
comment.
I mean, not that his opinion

909
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,100
means everything, you know, it's
just an opinion, of course. but,

910
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:40,700
He's not wrong if I look at I
mean we toured no filter design

911
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:42,200
were just talking about.
Yeah.

912
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:48,600
For I think four years 17, 18,
19 and 21 are four years.

913
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,900
Educating taught the same design
but what?

914
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:57,500
Obviously evolved over the year
years was first of all the video

915
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:00,500
content a little bit.
And also what we did with those

916
00:56:00,500 --> 00:56:06,600
walls when we started in in 17,
it was mostly using them as As

917
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:11,800
this big Scenic Elements which
ultimately translates and I get

918
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,800
pregnant point there, it
translates into making the

919
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,600
musician on stage.
Look small compared to this,

920
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,700
right?
I right hours of video but down

921
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:29,300
the road we started possibly
worth having 50% content on and

922
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:32,900
50%.
I make either I make only but or

923
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:36,000
most of the times, I make em
better embedded into content

924
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,900
immersed into play.
I saw some of that.

925
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,000
Yeah, which is already, I think
the right way to go, but

926
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:48,000
ultimately the years this show
in this design progress, I think

927
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,300
we got more and more I make back
in.

928
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,800
I make always used in a way that
it didn't look like a big belly

929
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,300
screen because it's something I
I don't like at all.

930
00:56:58,300 --> 00:57:00,600
And thanks God.
Patrick doesn't like either to

931
00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:05,300
have a huge tiny screen and
possibly normal 8:44 format.

932
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:09,000
Yeah, that's wrong.
And there are even if you have a

933
00:57:09,008 --> 00:57:14,300
screen which has got exactly
those the scale or this this

934
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:17,800
measurement, there are still
easy ways to get out of this

935
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:24,100
little loophole and to putting
whatever a little gradient

936
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:26,100
around to hold.
I'm accusing.

937
00:57:26,100 --> 00:57:29,700
Yeah tinting the Makes always
make it feel more like a

938
00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:32,400
beautiful art piece which is in
the background.

939
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,400
Obviously still being able to
transport the important

940
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,900
information which is Keith
Richards playing a solo.

941
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:43,900
Yeah.
Or whatever is in important

942
00:57:43,900 --> 00:57:45,900
indication, you know, like you
said, it's different.

943
00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:47,800
It's always different.
It depends on the artist.

944
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,200
It depends on the situation,
obviously, you know, in a

945
00:57:50,207 --> 00:57:51,700
stadium.
You're going to have different

946
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:54,100
needs than in an arena or
whatever.

947
00:57:54,500 --> 00:58:00,300
But yeah, I mean, Mean it, you
know, for an EDM Artists, for

948
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:04,300
example, you want the craziest
images and and all kinds of

949
00:58:04,308 --> 00:58:07,300
really crazy content and stuff
because everybody in the

950
00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:10,400
audience is stoned out of their
brains on Molly looking up at

951
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,800
these screens going.
Whoa you know and and the artist

952
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:18,200
is is a DJ so you know it's not
Mick Jagger right very

953
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,500
different.
Yeah absolutely yeah now that's

954
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:25,100
that's a that's a cool thought
like video it seems like we've

955
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:29,800
gone through these these Ends
with video when when LED screens

956
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,900
first came available and I don't
know if you remember what was it

957
00:58:32,900 --> 00:58:36,400
element Labs their stealth
screen when people started using

958
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,700
that like crazy and just putting
video on anything they could.

959
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,800
And it just kind of really took
over from lighting and like you

960
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,900
said, they kept getting higher
in their nits and brighter.

961
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:49,600
And now you had the screens
getting brighter.

962
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,900
So the lights had to get
brighter and it just became like

963
00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:55,600
this in your face.
Like oh my God.

964
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:56,800
It's bright.
Like you couldn't see.

965
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:59,300
The artist because there was
just so many lights, blasting

966
00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:03,500
you in the face all the time.
And then it seems like we've

967
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:06,600
gotten back to a point where
it's a really nice blend right

968
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,600
now.
Like the shows that I'm seeing

969
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:13,400
now video is being executed in a
much more.

970
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:16,400
I wouldn't say subtle it's not
subtle at all but it's just

971
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,100
better blended with the
lighting.

972
00:59:18,100 --> 00:59:20,700
It's not like competing with the
lighting and lighting is not

973
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:24,900
trying to outdo the video.
It just seems to be nicely put

974
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:27,800
together now.
For the reason.

975
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,400
I think that.
Yeah, the most popular now, but

976
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,700
that's the way to go.
I mean, this is a side.

977
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:35,700
Even though you're possibly only
the lighting designer, you

978
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:37,900
always should keep in the back
of your head.

979
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,400
Did you always love?
You should keep the bigger

980
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:42,700
picture in the back of your
head.

981
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,000
Basically the bigger picture is
anything.

982
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,100
Our eyes.
He's or if you talking about a

983
00:59:48,107 --> 00:59:52,700
broadcaster or a TV production,
anything the camera sees and

984
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:57,700
Sometimes I like to put on my,
my audience, and my punter

985
00:59:57,700 --> 01:00:00,800
classes, which is literally,
because if I go to a show,

986
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,500
obviously me is coming from our
industry.

987
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:06,600
We go into a show and you look
around, it's like, wow, there's

988
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,500
the news moving, like, there's
this great thing and he's using

989
01:00:09,500 --> 01:00:10,800
dead.
Why is he doing that?

990
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,800
But if you don't have our
background, you'd go into a show

991
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,400
to foremost.
See your artist.

992
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:22,500
Enjoy a lovely evening and be
hopefully be immersed into the

993
01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:27,900
show by by some lovely visuals,
but you don't take or you.

994
01:00:27,900 --> 01:00:31,600
Don't pay any attention on the
kind of technology which is used

995
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,700
in zone of the Fall.
So, yeah, always about the whole

996
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:39,000
thing, and they don't really
differentiate between lighting

997
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,700
or video.
They what they see is always

998
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,200
kind of the sum of all different
visual elements.

999
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,800
But yeah, lighting.
Which is video, which is your

1000
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,300
set production design, which is
any specialist in experience,

1001
01:00:52,300 --> 01:00:54,800
its anything.
Experience and all part of an

1002
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,900
experience.
They're all components elements,

1003
01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:00,600
exactly.
Those components need to work

1004
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,600
together.
Yeah, really great magic, in

1005
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:08,400
this amazing moments, or amazing
looks on shows, or it has to

1006
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,800
work together and it has to work
for whatever action is happening

1007
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,400
on stage.
Yeah, and I wouldn't even

1008
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,000
limited to two.
Any kind of rock and roll stuff

1009
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,500
for music stuff.
It doesn't matter if there's a

1010
01:01:20,508 --> 01:01:23,100
band on stage or if there's a
theatrical piece.

1011
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:27,500
Happening on stage, or if it's a
musical or if it's even a boring

1012
01:01:27,500 --> 01:01:30,300
corporate gig, where they
present the new Chevrolet

1013
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:35,600
something again, there it is all
about the car and it has two.

1014
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,400
We just create this visual
picture frame around it and all

1015
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,800
elements of the visual picture
frame should work together in

1016
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,600
the best possible way to give
the artist or whatever.

1017
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:50,600
The action stage is the best
possible canvas to really draw

1018
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,200
the detail.
And it's funny that you're in

1019
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:56,100
Germany, but you Elected an
American car for your example.

1020
01:01:56,700 --> 01:02:00,400
A Chevrolet, like, I like
American cars, and I like

1021
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,000
American Motor Sports.
Yeah, for that reason.

1022
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,100
Yeah, even so I'm driving.
I'm driving the trim.

1023
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:08,500
And one.
Yeah, me as well as well.

1024
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:12,400
I'm a big fan of German cars,
you know, it's just German cars

1025
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,100
to me.
Like, when you pull the door it

1026
01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:16,600
goes.
Whoop, it closes like with it,

1027
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,500
boom, and it's solid, and
there's no rattles after it

1028
01:02:19,500 --> 01:02:23,000
closes, you know, with a Ford or
a GM or something, you close the

1029
01:02:23,300 --> 01:02:26,900
Or and it rattles 45 minutes
after, you know, they're just

1030
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:28,700
not built quite as solid, I
guess.

1031
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:34,400
Yeah, yeah.
So Rammstein, which you've

1032
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,200
corrected me on, I was calling
them Rammstein, which I guess is

1033
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,200
wrong, but Rob jumps down from
Stein.

1034
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:47,000
So that came to you through
Patrick correct?

1035
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:50,000
Yes.
And no, I mean, it was basically

1036
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,100
that the initial contact was
from Maya.

1037
01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:58,100
Back in the day, I had four
years somewhere for five years,

1038
01:02:58,100 --> 01:03:01,700
where I Channel all my own
business through Woodruff

1039
01:03:01,700 --> 01:03:05,300
passive design, Patrick's
Anatomy company as well where we

1040
01:03:05,300 --> 01:03:10,300
we kind of collaborated, 100%,
which was ended by covid album,

1041
01:03:10,300 --> 01:03:12,300
Italy.
But that's a different story.

1042
01:03:12,700 --> 01:03:14,900
And I think the very initial
contact.

1043
01:03:14,900 --> 01:03:17,100
Was my dear old friend.
Nicholas sobotka.

1044
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:19,300
Who's Rammstein production
manager?

1045
01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:22,700
Okay, and we chatted about
Ramstein and we chatted about

1046
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:27,800
Out the day of possibly heading
out again and that they could

1047
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,900
possibly want.
Did they were interested in

1048
01:03:30,900 --> 01:03:34,600
possibly changing their design.
Team to just do something

1049
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,300
different because, yeah, not not
for any bad reason.

1050
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:39,700
Because I think what Roy did for
them, they were abandoned did

1051
01:03:39,700 --> 01:03:42,500
for them for some wood 10 or 15
years.

1052
01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:46,600
He spent with them is
outstanding, and I think Roy was

1053
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:51,000
influential in the the visual
appearance of the band big time.

1054
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,000
So there was no no, no no.
Bad blood or no reason to move

1055
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,400
on just because they were not
happy, they just wanted to have

1056
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,000
something different and gotten
different options.

1057
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,000
So this is what's the really
kind of?

1058
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,000
The starting point of the
conversation we had and then

1059
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:10,700
obviously as I was with Patrick
in full-time, kind of permalinks

1060
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:15,100
and unique, hold it in new words
that obviously went through the

1061
01:04:15,100 --> 01:04:23,400
wbb Raider.
And basically it went from there

1062
01:04:24,700 --> 01:04:26,500
and then obviously Patrick got
involved as well.

1063
01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:31,100
Because before I'm detecting
those patterning myself to start

1064
01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:36,300
with, but from the get-go, it
was kind of very, very obvious

1065
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:41,000
that this production will only
be a success if we also got a

1066
01:04:41,008 --> 01:04:44,300
sparing partner in terms of
production design, because yeah,

1067
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:51,600
so I contacted my my friend
Florian Vita Who funny enough is

1068
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,300
from the same city.
Basically really grew up in

1069
01:04:55,300 --> 01:05:00,100
Munich Munich kind of immunity
homey as well, but he's always

1070
01:05:00,100 --> 01:05:03,100
been over in the in the
broadcast industry.

1071
01:05:03,100 --> 01:05:07,500
He's been big, I mean, broadcast
World, who's possibly the moment

1072
01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:13,300
at least the most successful or
most most sought-after

1073
01:05:13,300 --> 01:05:16,000
production designer worldwide,
doesn't matter if in Europe or

1074
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,400
in the states.
Nevertheless, rock and roll was

1075
01:05:18,700 --> 01:05:24,100
a little, a little new for for
him, but we brought him on board

1076
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,300
and he brought so much to that
project.

1077
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:32,100
I mean, ultimately, the great
thing was, again, the three of

1078
01:05:32,100 --> 01:05:34,300
us had dragged myself as well as
Florian.

1079
01:05:35,900 --> 01:05:39,500
We switched off our all our egos
and plated ping-pong together to

1080
01:05:39,500 --> 01:05:45,800
create what ultimately was then.
Decided by the band to take out.

1081
01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:47,700
What about all the Scenic
Design?

1082
01:05:48,900 --> 01:05:52,400
Well Florence.
It's the needy and greedy that

1083
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,700
detail.
Work is Florian and who know who

1084
01:05:54,700 --> 01:06:00,300
knows his main kind of In-House
art directors as co-designer.

1085
01:06:00,700 --> 01:06:05,000
Super super talented man, from
Community as well.

1086
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:11,700
And there was ultimately the
three of us created the bigger

1087
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:15,000
picture, high level idea of
where it should go.

1088
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:19,500
So we had to the idea of
building a tower Our are very

1089
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:22,700
dystopian Tower.
Yeah, I had always seen any kind

1090
01:06:22,700 --> 01:06:28,000
of weeks and really detail work
than was done by floor and and

1091
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:29,600
Kuno.
Yeah, yeah.

1092
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,600
I mean, that's how our you're
talking about the the monster

1093
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,300
structure in the center of the
stage.

1094
01:06:34,300 --> 01:06:36,600
Well, yeah, that thing's
outrageous.

1095
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:40,600
Like that's that.
And then I don't know if it's

1096
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,600
like sound delay Towers or
something, where you've got the

1097
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,800
Pyro coming out of the top of
those.

1098
01:06:48,300 --> 01:06:51,500
That show just blows my mind
like, you know, and I've never

1099
01:06:51,500 --> 01:06:55,400
seen it live, I've only seen it
on video, but it blows my mind.

1100
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,200
I mean, the Pyro is outrageous.
The lighting is outrageous.

1101
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:04,600
The, the scenic designs are
outrageous, the the costumes are

1102
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,700
outrageous.
Just as a visual thing, it's

1103
01:07:07,700 --> 01:07:11,500
just like mind-blowing you know
and I have no idea what the hell

1104
01:07:11,500 --> 01:07:14,400
the band is saying, you know
like what is it?

1105
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:21,400
What is du hast mean anyways?
Direct translation would be

1106
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,200
you've got me.
Okay.

1107
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,900
Okay.
And but it's ultimately that

1108
01:07:26,900 --> 01:07:33,800
band is a proper playground for
any grade of this industry

1109
01:07:34,700 --> 01:07:38,500
because there are there you've
got every right in the world to

1110
01:07:38,500 --> 01:07:43,800
go to town in terms of visual
Extravaganza and you really can

1111
01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:46,900
take it to an extreme.
And for a good reason, Thursday,

1112
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:52,200
What what they created over the
years has been a very visual

1113
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,300
language and yeah I think at
least at some parts of the

1114
01:07:55,300 --> 01:08:01,000
career it was It was kind of
fundamental to their success to

1115
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,200
do those crazy live shows and
yeah and even in the smallest

1116
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,900
scale they did crazy things.
I mean I guess there's

1117
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:09,700
boundaries that you have to stay
within like you couldn't have a

1118
01:08:09,707 --> 01:08:12,700
white set.
You couldn't have pink lights,

1119
01:08:12,700 --> 01:08:16,700
you know it has to be it's an
industrial metal band, right?

1120
01:08:16,700 --> 01:08:21,600
Like It's not have that
industrial look and they got

1121
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:27,200
their band corporate identity.
We want to call it that way and

1122
01:08:27,300 --> 01:08:29,800
within this band corporate
identity, which they created

1123
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,000
mostly by themselves, helped a
lot by /.

1124
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:36,600
I actually, I think.
Yeah, just gives you definitely

1125
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:41,000
a direction and you can't break
out completely, but you can put

1126
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,800
your own twist on it and you can
take it too.

1127
01:08:45,399 --> 01:08:50,800
It's could say to another level
but you can and really progress

1128
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:55,200
on it and I think that is what
we've achieved very very, very

1129
01:08:55,200 --> 01:09:01,200
well together within the team of
myself, Patrick and Florian but

1130
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,500
also the band by them, by their
spy themselves because they're

1131
01:09:04,500 --> 01:09:07,600
very involved in the whole
process, really they called in

1132
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,399
the design aspect of it and the
creative project.

1133
01:09:10,899 --> 01:09:13,399
Oh that's cool.
Which member of the band.

1134
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:19,200
It's mostly Paul on the lighting
side, one of their guitar

1135
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:22,300
guitarists, you super
interested, but all of them have

1136
01:09:22,300 --> 01:09:26,200
got an opinion, that's good, but
in opinion in a very good way.

1137
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:31,300
So, and I mean, they've grown
from literally playing in front

1138
01:09:31,300 --> 01:09:35,100
of whatever 10 people in their
very first early stages of their

1139
01:09:35,100 --> 01:09:39,200
career, to what they are now, by
far the most successful German

1140
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:43,800
act over the years, but they've
always been very involved in to

1141
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,600
Especially pyrotechnics by
themselves or especially, they

1142
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,100
can also their pyro because it's
pretty incredible.

1143
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:55,600
It's amazing, it's funny enough.
It's the company of the

1144
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,900
production manager because he
founded in downtimes is being an

1145
01:09:59,900 --> 01:10:01,900
E coli.
Nicholas sobotka has been with

1146
01:10:02,900 --> 01:10:06,300
from Stan, I think since the
mid-90s or somewhere like that.

1147
01:10:06,300 --> 01:10:12,500
So also early stages and at some
point they got they hit some

1148
01:10:12,500 --> 01:10:17,700
limits in terms of what is Is.
Achievable in terms of special

1149
01:10:17,700 --> 01:10:21,700
effects and he had the thought
that he could do it better.

1150
01:10:21,700 --> 01:10:26,500
And he could because for some,
some special effect, I think

1151
01:10:26,500 --> 01:10:29,100
he's one of the best guys out
there.

1152
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:32,200
So he founded his own company.
I think originally, they only

1153
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:36,000
work with Ramstein but
obviously, down the road.

1154
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,500
Did they ventured out as well?
And it's called ffp.

1155
01:10:39,500 --> 01:10:42,800
It's Berlin and Los
angeles-based, and we're doing

1156
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,600
quite a bit of quite a bit of
work.

1157
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,800
I mean, Roy got them involved as
in been quite a few of his

1158
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,800
shows.
So just really last year.

1159
01:10:49,900 --> 01:10:54,600
Yeah, they also did Lady Gaga.
They did work for kiss post

1160
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,900
office and it's killer.
It's just like, completely

1161
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:00,300
outrageous.
I love it.

1162
01:11:00,700 --> 01:11:05,800
So that show, like, so first of
all, when did ROMs Rammstein get

1163
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,700
this big like when did they go
from playing in regular Arenas

1164
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:14,300
like every other German act or
whatever to being this massive

1165
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:17,600
stadiums?
Sensation, when did that happen?

1166
01:11:18,700 --> 01:11:23,500
It's it was, it's a process
which happened over the years.

1167
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:27,100
I mean, I think the band was
founded, don't know me down in

1168
01:11:27,100 --> 01:11:29,400
that.
In the, in the very early 90s.

1169
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,000
Literally, I mean, they all play
together in different

1170
01:11:32,900 --> 01:11:37,600
constellations in the 80s in the
eastern part of Germany, before

1171
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,200
the Wall came down.
Yeah, so this is where we'd all

1172
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:45,800
regions and it's all these from
this very small rock and Roll

1173
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:51,300
punk rock scene from the East
Germany, back in the days they

1174
01:11:51,300 --> 01:11:55,000
started.
And they got successful with

1175
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,200
saying it needs to know on a
national level in the early mid

1176
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:03,200
90s.
And from there on continued by

1177
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,800
the late 90s.
They were already doing Arenas

1178
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,800
and big Festival headlined.
Slots in Europe.

1179
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,500
And then they this it's a long
story, but for everybody who's

1180
01:12:15,500 --> 01:12:19,400
listening it's very worthwhile
watching this documentary,

1181
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,400
really good film documentary
film called Rammstein America.

1182
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,900
And that is to our film about
how they broke into the American

1183
01:12:27,900 --> 01:12:31,600
Market, which is obviously a
difficult Market to break into

1184
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:35,300
and especially considering that
they don't speak any English.

1185
01:12:35,300 --> 01:12:38,300
Seeing any of your song, is it
exactly that they got?

1186
01:12:38,300 --> 01:12:41,300
Well, I think one one song Which
is kind of English, but

1187
01:12:41,300 --> 01:12:46,200
everything else, it's German and
it's interesting how they took

1188
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,200
on it because when they have
already been very very

1189
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:54,500
successful in Europe and in
Russia and in in our end of the

1190
01:12:54,500 --> 01:12:58,200
world, they wanted to break
America and they go got over

1191
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:02,300
there and they played in a club
in New York in front of 20,

1192
01:13:02,300 --> 01:13:05,700
people, or 30 people.
All this sort of started all

1193
01:13:06,300 --> 01:13:09,800
started off from scratch to a
certain degree again.

1194
01:13:11,100 --> 01:13:15,700
But they had so much commitment
and obviously the act by itself

1195
01:13:15,700 --> 01:13:20,100
works because it's really kind
of in it's cool.

1196
01:13:20,100 --> 01:13:22,300
It's were really groovy music,
it works.

1197
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:28,300
It is, it is basically it's
making fun of German stereotypes

1198
01:13:28,300 --> 01:13:32,100
all the way through marching and
yanking that way is nobody

1199
01:13:32,100 --> 01:13:34,400
speaks in Germany metadata.
Yeah.

1200
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,400
And that all combined with their
very theatrical approach of

1201
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,500
doing live shows.
It's got every right in the

1202
01:13:42,500 --> 01:13:46,400
world to kind of be successful
anywhere in the world.

1203
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,200
But if do they do stadiums
everywhere though or just in

1204
01:13:50,900 --> 01:13:53,800
Europe?
There's no, I mean, when when we

1205
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,600
started to work with them and I
mean, the beer still, or were

1206
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:00,100
still our New Kids on the Block
with them because we just

1207
01:14:00,100 --> 01:14:02,700
designed this tour, which is too
loud for them.

1208
01:14:02,900 --> 01:14:06,800
That was their very first own
stadium production before and

1209
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,300
they played, they played the
biggest festivals in the world

1210
01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:11,200
all around.
The world they played in front

1211
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,400
of whatever 100,000 people are
200,000 people.

1212
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,900
In the end Russia, they played
all the big big shows whatever

1213
01:14:18,700 --> 01:14:20,700
at least a bigger the big metal
show.

1214
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:23,500
Let's put it that way.
Yeah and festivals.

1215
01:14:23,900 --> 01:14:28,700
But from the point of view from
the point of view of touring and

1216
01:14:28,700 --> 01:14:33,200
touring Productions their limit
was Arenas basically did Arenas

1217
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,700
and Festival.
Yeah, so it was for them.

1218
01:14:35,700 --> 01:14:39,400
It was a step up in terms of
venue size and to really put

1219
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:43,100
together Own stadium production.
Yapping was their first year of

1220
01:14:43,500 --> 01:14:47,800
doing stadiums and I mean, proof
of concept was that literally

1221
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,300
that first tour sold out in a
heartbeat and still.

1222
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,600
Now they're on the third third
year running Europe with this

1223
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:58,500
show, how going, I think to most
places they're going this year,

1224
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:03,400
they've been to and even if the
third year, there are still they

1225
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:07,000
sell a show out and that's on
that seem like it's and do you

1226
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,800
have two rigs like leapfrogging
each other?

1227
01:15:09,900 --> 01:15:12,700
Or is there days between shows
or how does it work?

1228
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:16,400
It is, it isn't.
Let's, let's put it that way.

1229
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:23,200
It isn't light, take on Stadium
touring, but a very healthy way.

1230
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,700
And I think something most
Productions in our day and age

1231
01:15:26,700 --> 01:15:30,400
to, they got to steal sets, so
full to for steelhead.

1232
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,400
So they leap frogging sort of
you can do whatever to free for

1233
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:36,100
sure.
Free shows a week or something

1234
01:15:36,100 --> 01:15:38,700
like that.
Yeah, they got a little bit of

1235
01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:43,200
advanced production.
Mostly cables a few lights, but

1236
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:47,500
very minimal.
They're very, very minimal and

1237
01:15:47,500 --> 01:15:50,700
then it's one big Universal
Productions production, where

1238
01:15:50,700 --> 01:15:55,600
they carry lighting rig, all the
special effects PA system.

1239
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:01,600
Most of the set or the cladding
of the steel structure is also

1240
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:05,700
on, on a newer Universal.
And so with this

1241
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:08,800
two-and-a-half-hour
one-and-a-half shows which

1242
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,000
they're touring the can still do
free shows a week which is I

1243
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,500
think a fair lie and that's,
that's pretty cool.

1244
01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:19,200
Yeah, they do no stupid stuff.
Like whatever touring stadiums

1245
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,200
on that scale back to back which
others have done and have to

1246
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:25,800
have done successfully.
But then obviously, then

1247
01:16:25,900 --> 01:16:30,300
requires a lot more money to be
spent and possibly the lot more

1248
01:16:30,300 --> 01:16:33,100
money.
You spend doesn't make it

1249
01:16:33,100 --> 01:16:35,300
worthwhile but they added
income.

1250
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,300
Yeah.
So I mean last question on

1251
01:16:38,300 --> 01:16:41,800
Rammstein just because
Interested, but does it make you

1252
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:43,500
like a national hero or
whatever?

1253
01:16:43,500 --> 01:16:47,500
Now that you're working with
the, the band that you know, is

1254
01:16:47,500 --> 01:16:49,200
the Pinnacle of success in
Germany?

1255
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,800
I wouldn't say so.
And I so I see myself never as

1256
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,000
Nero.
I'm just but it's really the

1257
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,800
most important lighting design
job in Germany, Germany.

1258
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,700
In terms of touring, for sure.
Yeah, it was

1259
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:19,300
I've been there or been together
with Patrick up in the first

1260
01:17:19,300 --> 01:17:24,500
German designer because they had
a thing for the last fifteen,

1261
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:29,900
15, odd years before nineteen
thirty, two thousand late 90s.

1262
01:17:29,900 --> 01:17:33,600
I would have cut to look it up.
They work with Leroy and very

1263
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,600
successfully.
Yeah, Leroy did amazing work for

1264
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:39,200
them.
Yeah, so it must have been

1265
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,200
somewhere in the late.
Mind.

1266
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,300
Is that the whole show was
designed by German last time?

1267
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:44,200
Yeah.
Wow.

1268
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:47,100
That's incredible.
Obviously, makes you feel a

1269
01:17:47,108 --> 01:17:48,900
little proud to be honest?
Yeah.

1270
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:50,100
Yeah.
It has to.

1271
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,300
It has to, you know, I'm
Canadian.

1272
01:17:52,300 --> 01:17:55,000
So I, you know, I guess it would
be similar to, I don't know,

1273
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,400
rush or something in Canada, but
even not even close.

1274
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,800
Because Canada doesn't have any
big Stadium stuff like that.

1275
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:05,300
Right?
But, yeah, I know that's really,

1276
01:18:05,300 --> 01:18:07,900
really, super interesting.
I want to see that show live at

1277
01:18:07,900 --> 01:18:09,800
some point.
I'd love to see it in Europe.

1278
01:18:09,900 --> 01:18:12,700
No, not not here in the US and
Europe where it's like a

1279
01:18:12,700 --> 01:18:17,600
cultural phenomenon sort of, you
know, it's like yeah, that'd be

1280
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:22,400
pretty fun.
So speaking of like German bands

1281
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,600
and stuff do you know a metal
band called destruction?

1282
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:31,300
I read about them, and I think,
in my youth, I've listened to a

1283
01:18:31,300 --> 01:18:33,700
bit of metal had won album of
them.

1284
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:36,000
I don't really remember much
more.

1285
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:38,400
I mean, they do all the
festivals all the, you know.

1286
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:40,900
You guys are so big on these
metal festivals.

1287
01:18:40,900 --> 01:18:43,700
Like when metal was totally dead
in the rest of the world,

1288
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:46,600
Germany, it was still alive and
well, yep.

1289
01:18:46,700 --> 01:18:47,600
Yeah.
And these.

1290
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,500
So, anyways, my one of my good
friends from Canada that I kind

1291
01:18:51,500 --> 01:18:55,000
of grew up with is the drummer
in that band in destruction

1292
01:18:55,300 --> 01:18:58,000
heel.
And I think he's married now to

1293
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,700
a German girl.
And so he's been with

1294
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:05,500
Destruction for, I don't know,
10 years or something, very

1295
01:19:05,500 --> 01:19:10,400
small.
Well yeah, so I like to end each

1296
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,300
episode with just basically your
go to gear.

1297
01:19:14,300 --> 01:19:19,700
So, you know, the gear that you
have to have on every show like,

1298
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,500
call it five things, five pieces
of equipment that you won't do a

1299
01:19:23,500 --> 01:19:30,300
show without or can't do a show
without Out, right, depends on

1300
01:19:30,300 --> 01:19:31,600
the show.
I mean, we could talk about a

1301
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:36,000
concert, I would say any show
needs moles in any shape or form

1302
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:37,200
in nowadays, things.
God.

1303
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:40,800
Now, we got some LEDs
substitutes, which work as a

1304
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,600
mold, I would put in there, you
need some kind of instruments,

1305
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,700
doesn't matter if they're
automated or not to do a proper

1306
01:19:47,700 --> 01:19:53,800
key lighting for your band and
beside of that, a comfy chair to

1307
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,100
sit in front of house.
Not the first person who has

1308
01:19:57,100 --> 01:20:01,300
said that, I would guess.
So, I learned one thing from

1309
01:20:01,300 --> 01:20:03,800
from from Patrick which I tried
to do.

1310
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:07,900
Also, my own projects, is to get
a comfy couch on top of that, at

1311
01:20:07,900 --> 01:20:10,700
least, for programming, not for
during a shower, but

1312
01:20:10,700 --> 01:20:11,900
programming.
Yeah.

1313
01:20:12,300 --> 01:20:14,800
And it's our own, your own
Comfort, but it's also

1314
01:20:15,300 --> 01:20:18,000
psychologically, a great great
asset.

1315
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:19,400
If you're talking to your
client.

1316
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,300
And he, or she comes out to
front of house and we can put on

1317
01:20:22,900 --> 01:20:25,000
my couch, the couch.
That's a lot.

1318
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:32,500
And a good team around.
You have a console gaming

1319
01:20:32,500 --> 01:20:37,400
console and console, let's put
it in the console of the choice

1320
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,300
of your programmer.
And if your program, if they

1321
01:20:39,300 --> 01:20:44,100
were programming myself and ma
yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

1322
01:20:44,900 --> 01:20:46,300
Cool.
Did I miss anything?

1323
01:20:46,300 --> 01:20:49,300
I don't know.
Like, I tried to go through your

1324
01:20:49,300 --> 01:20:52,300
career when I, when I Was
preparing for this and you've

1325
01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:55,500
done so many things, I mean,
obviously, Adele is another one

1326
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,900
But and there's there's an
artist.

1327
01:20:57,900 --> 01:21:01,600
I think it's a French artist or
something that's huge.

1328
01:21:01,700 --> 01:21:05,600
I mean, maybe it's a German a
woman Elena Fisher is a journey.

1329
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:06,900
A German artist.
Yeah.

1330
01:21:07,300 --> 01:21:10,500
I got a few bits and pieces for
her also quite a big show.

1331
01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:15,400
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I was blessed to do some

1332
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:18,800
interesting stuff and now a day
and age.

1333
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:22,100
It's not about the size anymore
because as we all have or

1334
01:21:22,100 --> 01:21:26,600
everybody has I had a face in my
life where it was All about Size

1335
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,400
Matters and yeah, bigger shows
but by now it's more about the

1336
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,300
quality of the show and it all
comes down to the quality of the

1337
01:21:34,300 --> 01:21:39,500
people you're working with.
On one side within your team or

1338
01:21:39,508 --> 01:21:43,800
within the team of creatives or
production, but also on the

1339
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,800
client side or on the other end
of the cable is of the artist.

1340
01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:49,800
And if you work with the right
people, it doesn't matter.

1341
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,600
It could be a very, very small
show as long as you achieve

1342
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:59,800
something which is special or
this is Magic if you can achieve

1343
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:01,800
that.
And that the best breeding

1344
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:03,100
ground is working with cool
people.

1345
01:22:03,100 --> 01:22:06,600
This is what I'm striving for
that's that's when you've won

1346
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:08,600
life, I guess.
Is when you really enjoy the

1347
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:12,400
people that you're working with
and everyone respects each

1348
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:14,300
other.
So if you had to choose one of

1349
01:22:14,300 --> 01:22:19,100
your shows you know 22 if you
were to get hit by a bus

1350
01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:22,800
tomorrow, God forbid and one
show had to be the one that

1351
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:24,200
you're remembered for, what
would it be?

1352
01:22:26,100 --> 01:22:29,200
Welcome you to the last Genesis.
Yeah, yeah, it's a beautiful

1353
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,900
show.
Unbelievable talked about it

1354
01:22:31,900 --> 01:22:36,300
before we started recording, but
it was sad to see Phil Collins.

1355
01:22:36,900 --> 01:22:40,100
You know, unable to perform like
he would have liked to,

1356
01:22:40,100 --> 01:22:43,800
obviously, but visually what?
A beautiful show.

1357
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,600
Thank you.
And then it was also, it was, it

1358
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,400
was a big, big challenge.
I mean, Patrick has worked with

1359
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:54,300
them, at least twice before, but
I was a new kid in town.

1360
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,000
New Kid in this camp.
I work with the Phil Collins

1361
01:22:57,700 --> 01:23:02,500
group for, for a few years, but
obviously doing Genesis, which

1362
01:23:02,500 --> 01:23:06,900
isn't heavily influential.
And within our part of the

1363
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:10,500
industry, as so in terms of
lighting and they've always

1364
01:23:10,500 --> 01:23:15,400
pushed the boundaries they've
always been groundbreaking for a

1365
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:18,100
lot of things doesn't matter,
whose think about back in the

1366
01:23:18,100 --> 01:23:21,800
early 80s with very lives later
on with you possibly that the

1367
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:25,700
first band who tore bigger video
screens and Zone in the fall.

1368
01:23:26,100 --> 01:23:30,000
Yeah, that was some big shoes to
fill to a certain degree and

1369
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,500
some big challenge, especially
nowadays because and nowadays,

1370
01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:36,800
it's a little different more
difficult to create something

1371
01:23:36,900 --> 01:23:39,500
groundbreaking because there's a
lot of Technology out there.

1372
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,100
Yeah, every little slap in
Munich uses.

1373
01:23:43,100 --> 01:23:47,000
Moving not so nothing special.
Yeah, to fill those shoes.

1374
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:51,400
And I think, within the team we
work together on there with

1375
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:55,600
Patrick and Jeremy Lloyd from
WonderWorks of detecting design.

1376
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:57,900
Also the production and the
Band.

1377
01:23:57,900 --> 01:24:04,000
By itself, we achieved achieved
in a really cool way to be

1378
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:08,000
Progressive, and also take
Genesis into the 21st century to

1379
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:13,700
bridge to put a bridge in
between their Heritage and their

1380
01:24:13,700 --> 01:24:17,400
long-standing careers.
But also you had mccollins

1381
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:20,300
fulfill some playing the drums.
Yeah, actually.

1382
01:24:20,300 --> 01:24:25,700
And so you've got to basically a
20 year old kid.

1383
01:24:25,900 --> 01:24:29,700
On stage playing drums, super
talented but there's just to

1384
01:24:29,708 --> 01:24:34,300
generate two generations on that
can be there was cool and it was

1385
01:24:34,300 --> 01:24:39,400
emotional it's like possibly at
some point it was possibly at

1386
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:40,900
some point.
I will have the same moment with

1387
01:24:40,900 --> 01:24:44,000
the stones or any other of his
horoscope and Stones can't wear

1388
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:45,700
forever.
Although they've been trying to

1389
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:56,700
pretty much one year ago, end of
end of March Oh, that the O2

1390
01:24:56,700 --> 01:25:00,800
Arena and the last night hit was
like evening the night was

1391
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,300
still.
Yeah, it felt a little

1392
01:25:02,300 --> 01:25:07,000
different, but the next morning
when you realized, you just done

1393
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:11,700
the last show of one of the last
remaining, big, giant sand in

1394
01:25:11,700 --> 01:25:14,600
the pop / rock music roll.
Yeah.

1395
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:16,700
Wow.
Yeah.

1396
01:25:16,900 --> 01:25:20,400
Now it's and unfortunately, you
know, you're a bit younger than

1397
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:25,400
me but at my age like a lot of
my heroes are starting to die

1398
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,200
now.
Now you know it my musical

1399
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:30,700
heroes are starting to die and
and retire for sure.

1400
01:25:32,300 --> 01:25:36,000
It's sad, you know, it's sad
it's every time someone dies

1401
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,300
you're like oh wow I remember
the first time I heard that song

1402
01:25:39,300 --> 01:25:43,500
Or that song or whatever right?
And yeah so going out and

1403
01:25:43,500 --> 01:25:48,100
touring with those I can imagine
it would be very emotional Yeah,

1404
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:50,300
absolutely.
Absolutely.

1405
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:55,500
Yeah, well, I appreciate you
doing this very much Roland.

1406
01:25:55,500 --> 01:26:00,800
I've enjoyed learning a bit
about your career and certainly

1407
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,200
a lot more about some of these
bands and stuff.

1408
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:06,500
So, yeah, thank you so much for
doing it.

1409
01:26:07,500 --> 01:26:10,400
Yeah, thanks.
Thanks for inviting me to chat

1410
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,100
with you and thanks for
recording.

1411
01:26:13,100 --> 01:26:16,000
All those things for generations
to come.

1412
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,100
Hopefully you could listen to
That and yeah, whatever tenuous

1413
01:26:19,100 --> 01:26:23,700
time, absolutely, that's the
whole idea is just storing these

1414
01:26:23,700 --> 01:26:26,400
things in a vault, you know,
everyone's stories and stuff

1415
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,700
because we're not going to be
around forever and, you know,

1416
01:26:29,700 --> 01:26:31,500
let's face it.
The young kids need our help.

1417
01:26:31,500 --> 01:26:36,100
These days 100% 100% need to be
guided event.

1418
01:26:36,100 --> 01:26:41,000
Well, thank you so much and safe
travels and enjoy a few days off

1419
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:42,600
here.
Thank you.

1420
01:26:42,700 --> 01:26:44,000
Alright.
Have a good one.

1421
01:26:44,100 --> 01:26:45,000
Take care.
All right.

1422
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:45,300
Bye-bye.