#189 - Brian Dowd chatting through 46 years in this crazy but wonderful biz! (and lots of BBQ talk too!)

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Thank you for joining Geezers of
Gear Episode #189.

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Today's podcast is brought to
you by Stratum Productions,

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bringing clarity and order to
the chaotic event industry.

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Stratum is your single source
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company's Midwestern values,
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and relationship driven customer
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the rest.
From the first downbeat to the

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final curtain call, the Stratum
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crews thankful and crowds
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stratumpro.com.
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Robbie Backstage.

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Thank you very much.
Well, hello again and thank you

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for coming back here for so #189
one 88.

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Just yesterday was Eric Todd
from BML.

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Sorry from Blackbird.
BML or BML Blackbird, I like

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Eric a lot.
I've known him for the better

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part of 30 years and just a
really good guy was a fun chat.

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He's so knowledgeable and I like
that Eric has taken such a

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different approach to most
companies out there and I feel

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like his generic brand, his
generic Co business is going to

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be $100 million company one day.
So watch out for that and thank

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you to Eric.
And if you haven't heard it yet,

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definitely take a listen.
It's a good one and I think

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you'll probably like it.
And so it's funny that today we

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have another New Jersey guy.
It must be a New Jersey theme

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with Eric Todd yesterday.
And now today we have a

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gentleman named Brian Dowd, who
most of you probably know, if

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you were born and brought up in
this industry in the last 40

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years in in America, you
probably know Brian.

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He's also from New Jersey.
And so please welcome the

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undisputed king of the Grill,
Brian Dowd.

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Well, hello there, Mr. Dowd.
How are you today?

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I'm fantastic, Marcel.
How are you?

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I'm pretty okay to you know,
it's 84 degrees today.

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I think it's warm and nice here
in sunny Florida.

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I.
Woke up, I woke up to like 3 1/2

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inches of snow that was not
forecasted at all.

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Yikes.
You're in New Jersey, right?

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Yeah, I live in northwestern New
Jersey where the bears are.

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I live in a semi rural lake
community.

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So we got foxes and coyotes and
bears and deer and yeah, that's

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that's crazy.
So do you.

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Do you hunt?
Yep, I'm an avid to hunt there.

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Yep, I'm an avid bow hunter, and
I can literally walk out into

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the woods without even having to
get in my truck if I choose to.

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That's right.
It's right there.

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It's state land, so like, what
animals are you able to hunt?

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I'm able to hunt whitetails.
I'm able to hunt turkeys, but I

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don't anymore because the
population's gone down so bad

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it's kind of not worth the time
bears were.

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Prohibited for quite a while,
and they just reopened it this

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year.
But it was postponed from a

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lawsuit.
So by the time it kicked in

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gear, I was, I was away working,
I was traveling, so I missed the

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whole process.
Have you ever bagged a bear?

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No, no, My dad used to.
When I was a kid.

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I remember eating bear meat.
We'd have, I'd like.

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I've eaten bear meat before,
yeah, But I've never.

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I don't really remember it well.
Like I seem to remember, it was

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one of the more gamey and
tougher ones.

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It is.
It's kind of stringy, yeah.

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Yeah.
I don't remember really liking

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that like we used to, you know,
growing up in Western Canada, we

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used to have a freezer that
would have elk in it and moose

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in it and and sometimes bear.
Either my dad would get it or or

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friends of his and and they'd
give it to him.

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Bear has trichinosis as well, so
you have to cook it.

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Well done.
And you have to like, really

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cook bear meat.
And yeah, maybe that's why it

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was like.
That like venison.

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I just want to, like, whisper
flame to it.

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Yeah, but you can't do that with
bear meat.

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Ah, interesting.
Yeah.

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So you must be a Big Joe Rogan
guy too, right?

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With the, with all the game.
Yeah, he's cool elk and he's a

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good.
He's a good.

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He does a good job.
Yeah.

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Yeah, he's a, he's obviously a
big advocate of that.

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So, you know, I want to talk a
little bit about you and your

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meat and your grilling and all
that stuff because you're you're

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like next level with that stuff,
right?

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I'm I'm a carnivore, that's for
sure.

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No, but I mean with the cooking
side of it, not just the eating

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side of it.
Yeah, I'm a I'm a huge foodie.

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I'm a I'm a very, very chefy
type person.

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I've even gone as far as to
build build my own chef knives

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and wow, why?
Actually, my my daughters are

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like the greatest gift givers in
the world and they gave me a kit

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one one year for my birthday and
it's it's like a Damascus steel

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chef knife.
It was a pretty awesome

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experience.
That's pretty cool.

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But yeah, years, years ago.
So I guess growing up, my mom

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was Irish Catholic from New
England, which meant everything

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was boiled until it was Gray and
tasteless.

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That's just how that's how we
ate.

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And so I knew from an early age
there had to be a better way.

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And I started cooking when I was
tall, you know, basically tall

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enough to handle the stove.
And I just kept at it my whole

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life and somewhere in the mid
90s.

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Because I moved back up to
Jersey in 96, so it was

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somewhere, you know, 9697 I
tried to smoke a Thanksgiving

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Turkey in my gas grill and
caught the grill on fire and

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melted the vinyl siding of the
shed and all that kind of stuff.

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So at that at that point I
decided to to get real about it

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and start figuring it out.
And years later, I was, you

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know, doing the competition BBQ
circuit in the Mid-Atlantic in

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the Northeast.
That's cool.

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So what what's that about?
Like you just sign up for these

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things and you go out and is
there prizes and?

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Yeah, all of the above.
I was a member of the of the,

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you know, the big major BBQ
association.

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You go to these competitions,
you pay money to to compete, and

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your average team is like four
or five dudes that all hang out

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together.
They all share in the work and

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they all share in the expenses.
And other than occasionally my

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girls coming along to help, I
was always by myself.

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So that was kind of hard.
Financially it was hard and and

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it's just taxing physically
because you're up all night long

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and if you win, what's that look
like?

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It can be.
It depends on the comp.

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It depends on the size of the
comp.

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It could be a couple of grand
in.

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There's big comps out in the
Midwest and and like Texas where

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there's some, you know, twenty
$30,000 prize.

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In the Northeast, you're just
looking at like maybe 15102

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thousand dollars or something
like that.

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And it's almost like the plastic
trophy in racing though, right?

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Like you're spending 5000 to
maybe win $1000 prize or

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something.
Correct, correct.

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And we call them hard trophies
because you can get ribbons and

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stuff like that and then when
you're getting a hard trophy

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that's that's when you got
something really cheesy and

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awesome and but during during
COVID.

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I sold my competition rig and
got out of it because years ago,

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thanks to some very successful
dudes, one named Myron Nixon.

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He's a super famous competitive
BBQ guy.

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They started using things like
Wagyu briskets and Berkshire

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pork shoulders, and once enough
cooks started doing that, you

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were never going to place unless
you were using the same stuff

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and it just became very, very
costly to do.

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I mean my, my.
Briskets were costing me like

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$230 a piece.
Yeah, So it was just kind of

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time to move on.
But the competition thing really

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upped my game.
And then that led to a marketing

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advantage to the companies I was
working for, starting with ACT.

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And so I started cooking for
customers and for customer

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events.
And I've legendary cookouts all

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over, all over.
There were a lot of fun.

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But I've cooked all over the
country.

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I've cooked in Canada and I've
had some attempts to cook in

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Europe, but I've never.
It's just so hard to try and

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find all the stuff over there to
do it.

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But there is some discussion
about trying to do that in Paris

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at some point.
When I heard you're being pulled

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out of retirement too.
Because I remember last time we

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talked about this was probably
at LDI or something, and you

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said, yeah, I'm done, I'm not
going to do it anymore.

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It's over.
They they can't for walk on me

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into it again and one of the
things cuz last year when I did

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it, which last year I think was
the 10th year and the most I'd

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cooked for before was 450
people.

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And keep in mind, I have no
professional catering background

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or anything.
I'm just wait, I'm winging it.

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But I'm winging it successfully.
I guess you're not cooking hot

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dogs and hamburgers either, are
you?

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No, I'm cooking briskets, pulled
pork, ribs and chicken, and they

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pay the food costs, I hope.
Yeah, in in all of the events

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that I did, usually it was, it
was ACT or GLP that was paying

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for everything because it was a,
you know, it was a customer

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appreciation marketing event.
But when it came to the four

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wall thing, they've always,
because it's not, it's their

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event, it's their vendor.
Yeah.

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So they they've always paid for
that.

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And that started out the first
year they ever did it.

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It was like a couple of celery
trays from Costco.

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And then they started cooking
burgers and dogs and Jimmy

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Cannon.
The late Jimmy Cannon came to me

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one day and said, can can you
come sort this out and do this

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right?
And I look back at some pictures

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from back then and it's mind
blowing what a ragtag pile of

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crap that I had and and the guys
helping me.

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And then it just grew and grew
and eventually ACT bought me a

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significant offset cooker that's
it's a company called Meadow

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Creek that's made right outside
the Lititz, PA so.

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And yeah, and it just, it grew
and and grew out from there.

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And I even ran into a time, a
lighting crew chief out of

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Ireland and we were up at at
Antoine's house up at in Solitec

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up in Montreal, and everybody's
speaking French and there's me

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and this Irish dude.
And so we're talking and somehow

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cooking came up and he went,
you're the BBQ guy.

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Oh really?
That's hilarious.

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And he doesn't even live in the
States.

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That's pretty funny.
So last year I had to cook for

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700 people.
Oh my God.

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And that that almost killed me.
I mean, that was really, really

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hard.
And my main sort of right hand

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guy, Sean Sack, he left the
industry during COVID and didn't

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really have any interest in
coming back so.

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Not only was it yeah, I was by
myself.

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I have help from from other
people, but not like that kind

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of help.
It wasn't knowledgeable help,

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even though it's well meaning.
Yeah, some schmuck from the

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warehouse.
So this year they're they're,

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they've got me two cookers which
will help a lot.

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These are 250 gallon offset
cookers and that having a second

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one will help me enormously.
Yeah, little little bit.

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00:13:46,530 --> 00:13:48,850
And there's no stress that
you're going to screw the whole

224
00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:54,290
thing up and like destroy 3
thousand $5000 worth of brisket

225
00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:55,610
or something.
Sure.

226
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:57,370
There's stress.
Yeah.

227
00:13:57,370 --> 00:13:59,770
That's a part of it.
Yeah, I mean, I worry about

228
00:13:59,770 --> 00:14:01,490
that.
When I got more than two lobster

229
00:14:01,490 --> 00:14:04,410
tails, you know, I'm like, oh
Jesus, what's going to happen

230
00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:07,250
here, you know?
I I'm the same way and I I

231
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:10,090
always get all tripped out about
stuff and it always works out.

232
00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:12,090
Yeah, it just, it just always
does.

233
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:15,230
That's amazing.
I mean, I would absolutely love

234
00:14:15,230 --> 00:14:18,750
to just sit there and watch one
time when you when you're going

235
00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:23,310
through that stuff because you
know, I'm your basic dad, BBQ

236
00:14:23,310 --> 00:14:26,070
guy, right?
Like I make a decent steak

237
00:14:26,070 --> 00:14:31,830
because I had a one of my
neighbors probably 20 years ago

238
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:36,910
was a chef at the Breakers
steakhouse down here.

239
00:14:37,230 --> 00:14:40,950
So way overpriced steaks like
$200.00 steaks and stuff right.

240
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,040
And corporate gigs of Breakers
years ago.

241
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,520
Yeah.
But the Breakers steakhouse has

242
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,600
it's legendary.
Like they have one of I think 2

243
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:55,480
master Semulnier's in in the
area and you know like just it's

244
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,360
it's legendary.
But he was, he was the chef

245
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,680
there.
And so he showed me how to make

246
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,000
steak.
And so, you know, people always

247
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,840
go, Oh my God, that's one of the
best steaks I've ever had, you

248
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,940
know, every time I make it.
So that's sort of my go too.

249
00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:11,460
But other than that, I don't
really have much, you know,

250
00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:13,260
Like, I don't.
I don't.

251
00:15:14,140 --> 00:15:17,020
People don't invite me over to
their house to cook for them or

252
00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:19,420
like you, you know, or
especially to their shop.

253
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:24,340
I I would screw up.
If I had to cook 700 burgers,

254
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:28,220
I'd screw up 400 of them.
Probably people would be eating

255
00:15:28,220 --> 00:15:30,900
hockey pucks.
It was a challenge, that

256
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,800
particular the 700.
Parson Cook.

257
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,560
Just to put it in perspective,
it was, and I'm doing this for

258
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,400
memory, but I think it's right.
I cooked 26 pork shoulders, 18

259
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,400
briskets, 60 racks of ribs and
200 pounds of chicken thighs.

260
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,680
Good God, that's a lot of food.
Brian Luftig who works at 4

261
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,240
Wall, he's now the the de facto
chicken cooker.

262
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,640
He's got it down and he he
cooked all the chicken.

263
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,600
So he was an incredible help and
and he's been, he's been there

264
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,600
with me since the beginning of
the four wall stuff.

265
00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:07,310
I gotta say the whole carnivore
thing must be must be good

266
00:16:07,310 --> 00:16:10,990
because you look very thin like
I don't know if you've lost a

267
00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:13,630
bunch of weight or something.
I'm looking at you on We're

268
00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:17,310
recording this on Zoom, and I'm
looking at you and you look thin

269
00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:21,150
as hell.
So it all started with that cook

270
00:16:21,310 --> 00:16:23,270
and and this had nothing to do
with the cook.

271
00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:25,790
The cook, just the stress of it
brought it out in me.

272
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:30,270
But I ended up, I ended up in a
pretty bad way, you know, while

273
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:32,710
I was in that cook, I was in
enormous pain.

274
00:16:33,190 --> 00:16:35,350
Internally, I had no idea what
was going on.

275
00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:41,030
And so after that was over and
you know, I'm home, got sorted,

276
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:44,390
I went to the doctor and I was
diagnosed with metabolic

277
00:16:44,390 --> 00:16:48,150
syndrome.
So I had it's a it's a whole

278
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:53,190
combination of things, all
basically brought on by a

279
00:16:53,190 --> 00:16:58,870
lifelong of of too much drinking
and eating the wrong kinds of

280
00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:00,550
food.
Naughty, as my girlfriend would

281
00:17:00,550 --> 00:17:05,190
say.
So I yeah, it was.

282
00:17:05,390 --> 00:17:09,349
I cut out all beer, which I
drank copious amounts of every

283
00:17:09,349 --> 00:17:13,550
single day for 30 years.
I cut out sugar and I went on a

284
00:17:13,550 --> 00:17:18,270
keto diet and I did that
hardcore the whole summer.

285
00:17:18,270 --> 00:17:21,790
So this was like early July 7th
I think was the day I was at the

286
00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:30,700
doctor and by the fall I'd lost.
A lot of weight and inflammation

287
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:35,860
was gone, joints didn't hurt
anymore and I went back for my 6

288
00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:40,140
month blood work and my liver
markers had gone from 56 down to

289
00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:42,820
23.
I was no longer prediabetic

290
00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:44,940
because my goal was to do this
without medication.

291
00:17:44,980 --> 00:17:48,740
I I was not going to go on
diabetes meds, I just didn't

292
00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:54,100
want to do it and I've lost £35.
I walk several miles a day,

293
00:17:54,100 --> 00:18:00,620
workout with kettle bells and.
I'm not doing 100% keto now, but

294
00:18:00,620 --> 00:18:03,340
I'm still eating a really low
carb diet.

295
00:18:03,340 --> 00:18:06,260
You know what?
You look 20 years younger.

296
00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:10,620
You look a lot thinner.
And you know, I've gone through

297
00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:13,580
similar transformation.
Mine wasn't quite as severe or

298
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:16,220
anything.
It was just eating like a pig,

299
00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:20,140
eating wrong, eating all carbs,
you know, not paying any

300
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:22,460
attention to anything I'm
supposed to be doing.

301
00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:27,420
I've never been a heavy drinker.
Well, never if you go like from

302
00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,420
40 until now.
I've never been a drinker pre

303
00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:35,860
pre 40 anything went right.
But but you know, like I lost

304
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:40,540
£35 as well and just how that
makes you feel is unbelievable,

305
00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:42,460
like you just feel like a
different human.

306
00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:45,300
Those ankles that used to hurt
when you woke up don't hurt

307
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:47,260
anymore.
Your feet don't hurt anymore.

308
00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:49,380
Your knees don't hurt.
You know it's.

309
00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:53,660
If we could take sugar and seed
oils out of.

310
00:18:54,150 --> 00:19:02,510
Our diets as a human species, we
could probably, you know, have

311
00:19:02,510 --> 00:19:04,870
the biggest change in in the
world.

312
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:07,790
You know, cancer probably
wouldn't even exist.

313
00:19:08,030 --> 00:19:10,910
So have you ever heard of a
doctor called Mark Hyman?

314
00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:13,990
No.
So functional medicine.

315
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:17,630
He's a doctor.
I follow pretty religiously,

316
00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:21,150
like I've been following him for
I don't know, four or five years

317
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,200
and he's one of these life
hacker kind of live longer, live

318
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,920
forever to 150 kind of guys,
right?

319
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,840
But he's got a new book out that
that I would recommend to anyone

320
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,200
but you and me.
I'm just about completed the

321
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,840
book.
It just came out a few days ago.

322
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:43,600
But it's called Young Forever
and highly, highly recommend it.

323
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,500
And it's it's all about.
It's not about even necessarily

324
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:51,860
living longer, even though
longevity is is the goal for

325
00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:54,900
most people.
But it's about living healthier

326
00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:57,540
long, right?
You know, it's you don't want

327
00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:02,060
like even if your last year is
going to be when you're 85, do

328
00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:05,300
you want the last 10 years or
five years of your life to be

329
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:08,420
total shit where you're
bedridden or in a wheelchair?

330
00:20:08,420 --> 00:20:10,820
Or do you want to be up playing
tennis every day and die in your

331
00:20:10,820 --> 00:20:13,300
sleep without any problems, you
know?

332
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:15,950
That's kind of where where I
want to be, You know, I just

333
00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:18,790
want to skip the cancer, you
know, heart disease.

334
00:20:18,790 --> 00:20:21,230
I want to skip all that stuff
and just die in my sleep.

335
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:24,750
So yeah, I'm really into that
stuff.

336
00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:26,870
I'm.
I'm so happy that that you went

337
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:31,390
through the good parts of that.
Not the bad part, but and you

338
00:20:31,390 --> 00:20:33,630
know the lifestyle change, so
many people in our industry, I

339
00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:37,230
think we talked about this at
LDI, but I fear for a lot of

340
00:20:37,230 --> 00:20:39,470
people in our industry, you
know, sadly.

341
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:42,350
Yeah, it is.
It's it's, you know, none of us

342
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:46,440
are getting any younger.
And it it catches up with you

343
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,120
and you, you don't think about
it.

344
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,200
You think you're invincible.
You think everything's fine, and

345
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,560
then you go get some blood work
done.

346
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,880
Yeah, it's like hello, but when
you're when you're cooking meat

347
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,480
at home or you like, obviously
game is about as, as great as

348
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,400
you can go.
Like, you know, wild game

349
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,930
because it's not just the meat
you're eating, it's what that

350
00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:10,010
meat ate.
You know, it's, it's what those

351
00:21:10,010 --> 00:21:12,610
animals ate.
So you're the food is basically

352
00:21:12,610 --> 00:21:17,530
coming through them to you.
And if that is garbage and grain

353
00:21:17,530 --> 00:21:22,210
and and corn and antibiotics and
all of the terrible stuff and

354
00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:26,570
and pig shit or whatever else
they're eating, you know, then

355
00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:28,530
that's that's what you're
consuming too.

356
00:21:28,530 --> 00:21:30,770
You're not getting this
beautiful piece of red meat that

357
00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:34,430
you saw sitting in the grocery
store, but when you get the wild

358
00:21:34,430 --> 00:21:38,310
game or grass fed or any of the
really high end meats that

359
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:42,310
you're now able to get through
some of these sellers, it's

360
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:44,390
totally different.
You're eating the wild stuff

361
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:48,710
that they ate.
Yep, I go out of my way to to

362
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:50,470
buy grass fed and grass finished
beef.

363
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:53,350
I must say I don't like it as
much.

364
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,520
And you know grain fed stuff
definitely has a flavor profile

365
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,960
that you're more used to.
But but yeah, I still, I I still

366
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,480
go out of my way.
We buy as much organic

367
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,520
vegetables as we can, and so
where do you buy your meat from?

368
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,480
There's a couple of different
grocery stores around that

369
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,200
actually have, you know, like
high end grocery stores.

370
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,730
It's a place called Wegmans.
That has it.

371
00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:25,410
I can get it at my just my local
grocery store.

372
00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:30,450
Not in steak form, but I can get
grass fed in ground form, yeah,

373
00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:33,570
yeah, I mean same down here.
I I don't trust the stuff at

374
00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:36,370
Publix and and all of that.
Like it says grass fed.

375
00:22:36,370 --> 00:22:38,970
And I don't know, it looks like
it's been sitting there for a

376
00:22:38,970 --> 00:22:41,570
really long time in that package
or whatever.

377
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:44,540
So I usually try to at least go
to Whole Foods.

378
00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:47,180
Whole Foods has the stuff behind
the counter that looks pretty

379
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:50,460
good, and according to the guys
that I talked to there, the

380
00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:53,140
butchers, they say it's good.
I've tried butcher block.

381
00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:58,900
I've I've done butcher block for
a while and it's a bit packages

382
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:02,420
they force you into and it's a
bit expensive.

383
00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:05,980
I tend to do filets.
I don't I'm not really into the

384
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:08,420
and you'll hate this because
you're a proper meat eater and a

385
00:23:08,420 --> 00:23:10,100
proper barbecue and all that
stuff.

386
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:15,610
But I I don't like all the the
fat in there and the I just like

387
00:23:15,610 --> 00:23:17,370
really, really lean cuts of
meat.

388
00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:21,850
And so I'll do a filet and and I
just want to buy 12 filets, Give

389
00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:24,770
me 12 filets and they don't do
that.

390
00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:27,970
You got to get bacon and all
this other stuff with it and

391
00:23:28,210 --> 00:23:29,690
it's like, I don't want all that
shit.

392
00:23:29,690 --> 00:23:33,370
Well, you got to get it.
You know what I found in Canada?

393
00:23:33,530 --> 00:23:35,330
So I have a house up in in
Banff.

394
00:23:35,330 --> 00:23:38,330
Actually, Ben came up and
visited me for a couple of weeks

395
00:23:38,330 --> 00:23:42,010
last year.
But up there they've got like,

396
00:23:42,210 --> 00:23:43,930
you know, these little trucks
that come out to your

397
00:23:43,930 --> 00:23:47,890
neighborhood and sell you stuff.
So there's a guy up there, it's

398
00:23:47,890 --> 00:23:49,890
called seafood something or
other.

399
00:23:49,890 --> 00:23:51,090
I can't remember what it's
called.

400
00:23:51,090 --> 00:23:52,530
I just have his number in my
phone.

401
00:23:53,890 --> 00:23:56,250
But he turned me on to these
Bovette steaks.

402
00:23:56,250 --> 00:23:58,370
Have you ever done Bovette
steaks?

403
00:23:58,370 --> 00:24:01,130
No, I've never eaten anything
like it.

404
00:24:01,130 --> 00:24:05,450
I mean it's it's just a certain
type of, I don't know if it's a

405
00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:08,850
marinade or a curing or whatever
you would call it that they do.

406
00:24:09,090 --> 00:24:12,330
But I mean, literally, you
almost have to hold it together

407
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:14,570
on the grill because the meat
just wants to fall apart.

408
00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:19,410
It's so tender And it they are
unreal.

409
00:24:19,450 --> 00:24:21,370
I mean, the only thing is
they're kind of small.

410
00:24:21,370 --> 00:24:26,610
They're like they're probably 6
ounces or something and they're

411
00:24:26,610 --> 00:24:28,650
not medallions.
They're like a proper steak, but

412
00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:31,050
it's a tiny one.
So sometimes you might want to

413
00:24:31,050 --> 00:24:33,570
get 2.
But I mean, in Canadian dollars,

414
00:24:33,570 --> 00:24:37,870
I think I'd buy.
I think I buy 12 for like 140

415
00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:40,830
bucks or something.
So they're like around $10 each

416
00:24:40,830 --> 00:24:44,870
Canadian, which is like $757
each US.

417
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:48,470
So good.
I mean, literally no knife

418
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:51,750
needed, so flavorful you barely
have to cook them.

419
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:54,950
And so, yeah, I've been eating a
bunch of those.

420
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:58,350
I'm going to make ground lamb
for dinner tonight.

421
00:24:59,830 --> 00:25:03,590
I make a ground lamb and cabbage
dish with the chickpeas and

422
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:04,590
onions.
It's pretty good.

423
00:25:05,620 --> 00:25:07,860
Chickpeas and onions and ground
lamb.

424
00:25:09,060 --> 00:25:11,740
And it's Curry.
And cabbage, it's it's not a

425
00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:14,980
Curry.
I use a Burberry, which is an

426
00:25:15,020 --> 00:25:17,060
Ethiopian spice in it.
Oh, interesting.

427
00:25:17,780 --> 00:25:19,660
I just, I really like.
It's so funny.

428
00:25:19,660 --> 00:25:22,460
You hear people talk about
cooking venison, for instance.

429
00:25:22,460 --> 00:25:24,260
Yeah.
And all these recipes and all.

430
00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:26,700
You soak it in this and you do
that to get rid of the gamey

431
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:28,220
flavor.
It's like, that's why I love

432
00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,020
venison.
I love the gamey flavor.

433
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:32,180
Yeah, yeah.
So I like stronger.

434
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:35,060
It's like though.
Lamb and goat and and any kind

435
00:25:35,060 --> 00:25:38,260
of wild game.
Yeah, interesting.

436
00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:43,340
So I'm guessing the four wall
thing this year is not going to

437
00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:46,540
be smaller.
No, it's going to be.

438
00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:49,420
It's every year it's grown.
I don't think there's ever been

439
00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:52,300
a year that there were less
people, and because last year

440
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:56,940
was the first one since COVID.
They that and the fact that four

441
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:00,060
wall keeps growing as well.
They just knocked it out of the

442
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:02,060
park.
I mean 700 people.

443
00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:08,860
I told them I could, I could do
my best to cook for 600 and at

444
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:11,180
one point W Bailey, the CO4
wall.

445
00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:13,460
You know, stop by to see how
he's doing.

446
00:26:13,940 --> 00:26:17,300
And I was kind of stressing that
I wouldn't pull this off and he

447
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:19,780
was like, you know, F them.
If they didn't show up in time

448
00:26:19,780 --> 00:26:23,100
and there's no food left, that's
their problem and.

449
00:26:23,950 --> 00:26:28,190
And I ended up so there was 700
attendees and I had one plate of

450
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:30,150
pork and two plates of ribs
leftover.

451
00:26:30,150 --> 00:26:32,510
And that was it.
Oh my God, really?

452
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:36,590
So you somehow like did you plan
the?

453
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:38,990
I just winged it, man.
I just did.

454
00:26:38,990 --> 00:26:41,310
I did what I thought was gonna
work and it did.

455
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:43,710
That's unreal.
That's pretty amazing.

456
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:45,470
There's no.
That there's no sign.

457
00:26:45,550 --> 00:26:47,470
Yeah, I mean, I've been doing it
a long time.

458
00:26:47,470 --> 00:26:49,150
So it's a good calculated guess,
Yeah.

459
00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:52,690
But I would have had more
leftovers with eight people, you

460
00:26:52,690 --> 00:26:55,490
know what I mean?
Like then you had for 700

461
00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:56,730
people.
That's pretty incredible.

462
00:26:56,730 --> 00:26:59,850
That's awesome.
I wish I had any desire to be in

463
00:26:59,850 --> 00:27:01,530
New Jersey in June, cuz I'd love
to.

464
00:27:01,690 --> 00:27:04,330
I'd love to be there and more
than anything, just to watch

465
00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:07,210
what you're doing.
You know, cuz I'm not like a

466
00:27:07,690 --> 00:27:13,130
huge cooking buff or BBQ buff or
anything, but you know, I am

467
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:17,690
interested for sure.
I'm I've made a promise to.

468
00:27:18,370 --> 00:27:21,890
Matching Mimoto and Harrison
Lippman to do something.

469
00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:24,090
They want to do it this spring
at their new shop.

470
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:28,010
That's cool.
There may be an opportunity

471
00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:29,970
there.
So did you ever think of making

472
00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:36,610
your passion your business?
Yes, about 1000 different times

473
00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:44,570
and my exwife's one of her
brothers was a restaurant tour

474
00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:47,900
and.
A long time ago he had purchased

475
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,740
a restaurant in Cape May, NJ
down the down the shore.

476
00:27:50,940 --> 00:27:53,340
He asked me if I would be
interested in going into

477
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:56,020
business with him.
I went to the library because

478
00:27:56,180 --> 00:27:59,820
I'm dating the time frame now.
But I went to the library and

479
00:27:59,820 --> 00:28:02,660
got every book I could find on
owning your own restaurant and

480
00:28:02,660 --> 00:28:04,220
came back to him and said no I
don't.

481
00:28:04,220 --> 00:28:08,380
I don't think this is for me.
And then over the years,

482
00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:11,340
especially with the BBQ thing
and and my daughters have always

483
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:12,980
said like, oh, we should go do
this.

484
00:28:12,980 --> 00:28:16,100
We should do this and you think
about I could be.

485
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,280
You know, I could be providing a
financial legacy for them if I

486
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,440
pulled it all off.
I even had he's a very powerful

487
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:31,080
realtor who is well known in the
Jersey end of our industry

488
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,120
because everybody from T, MB
back to production arts for

489
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:39,840
while everybody's used this
realtor and he came to me

490
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,240
straight up and said you just
name it and and we'll.

491
00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:49,250
Will finance this and get you
set up and you know, that stuff

492
00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:51,970
runs through your head.
But at the end of the day, you

493
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:56,210
know, this is sort of who I am,
this business in this industry

494
00:28:56,770 --> 00:29:00,730
and remarkably a little safer
than the restaurant business,

495
00:29:01,170 --> 00:29:04,170
you know, Yeah, I mean, the
restaurant business is one of

496
00:29:04,170 --> 00:29:06,620
those places where, you know,
what do they say?

497
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:09,020
How do you, how do you make
$1,000,000 in the restaurant

498
00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:10,460
business?
Start with 2 million or

499
00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:13,460
whatever.
Yeah, it's just tough.

500
00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:15,380
I mean, if you hit, you can hit
real big.

501
00:29:15,380 --> 00:29:18,540
If if you don't, it can become a
life of hell and misery and

502
00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:23,540
long, long, long days that are
pretty thankless.

503
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:28,390
I watched diners, driveins and
dives religiously on Friday

504
00:29:28,390 --> 00:29:31,190
evenings every single week and
have been forever.

505
00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:33,190
That's cool.
I can't get enough of that show

506
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:35,590
and you just see all these
people and you have so much

507
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:41,230
respect for him and it it makes
me so happy to see people who

508
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:45,230
are successful and happy and but
I don't.

509
00:29:45,270 --> 00:29:46,670
I don't.
I don't live my life in a

510
00:29:46,670 --> 00:29:48,750
rearview mirror, so I don't have
any regrets for not, you know,

511
00:29:48,750 --> 00:29:52,950
there's somebody turned me on to
something called Master class,

512
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,080
which you get it on like Apple
TV and so I bought it.

513
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,560
It's 200 bucks or something and.
Franklin's on there.

514
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,520
Yeah, I mean there.
I'm not a cooking show guy, but

515
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,320
there are some really great
master classes, including,

516
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,640
what's the Hell, Hell's Kitchen
Guy?

517
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,680
Gordon Ramsay has a really good
master class on there that, you

518
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,280
know, we've tried a few of his
dishes.

519
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,800
Like, you'll hate this because
you're a big meat guy, but we

520
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,660
tried it.
He does a cauliflower steak that

521
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:27,780
is unreal.
I mean it's it's it doesn't

522
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:29,580
taste like meat.
It's not supposed to taste like

523
00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:32,580
meat, but it's a it's a piece of
cauliflower, like, you know, two

524
00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:36,620
inches thick and and the whole
size of the cauliflower and just

525
00:30:36,620 --> 00:30:40,420
loads of spice and cool stuff on
it, but really, really good

526
00:30:40,420 --> 00:30:41,820
stuff.
And then there's some business

527
00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:44,300
stuff and there's, you know, you
want to become a playwright.

528
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:48,020
Here's how you do it, you know?
But it's pretty cool.

529
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,580
I recommend.
By the way, back in the 80s, I

530
00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:52,340
was a vegetarian for eight
years.

531
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:54,580
Were you Really?
What happened?

532
00:30:57,260 --> 00:31:01,020
What life, life experiences,
whatever.

533
00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:02,380
You just, you know what's so
funny?

534
00:31:02,380 --> 00:31:04,340
I just thought of this right
now.

535
00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:10,380
So your role at Ayrton is what?
I'm the designer relationship

536
00:31:10,380 --> 00:31:13,500
manager for North America.
And so the person before you was

537
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:16,380
who?
Chris Lewis and and what's his

538
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:19,060
favorite steak?
Exactly.

539
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:22,140
Yeah.
I would think a cauliflower

540
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:24,060
steak, which by the way, I've
made and they're quite good.

541
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:27,460
Yeah, somewhere in the world
right now, Chris, is browbeating

542
00:31:27,460 --> 00:31:30,100
someone overeating chicken wings
or something.

543
00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:33,420
He's he's a great dude and I do.
He is a good dude.

544
00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:38,060
I do respect his conviction.
So do I I don't know if you

545
00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:39,860
heard it, but I had him on my
podcast and.

546
00:31:40,060 --> 00:31:41,740
I did.
We actually spoke about it a

547
00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:47,660
little bit, and I don't agree
with him, but I accept I love

548
00:31:47,660 --> 00:31:50,700
anyone's conviction and passion
towards something.

549
00:31:50,860 --> 00:31:53,540
And I respect that, even though
I may not agree with you.

550
00:31:53,540 --> 00:31:58,300
You know, and the thing where it
gets a little big is is, you

551
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:00,700
know, like he's got one going
right now where he twisted a

552
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:05,540
story around online and said
that Dave Grohl was feeding dogs

553
00:32:05,540 --> 00:32:08,260
to homeless people.
He was cooking up dog meat and

554
00:32:08,260 --> 00:32:10,420
feeding it to homeless people.
And it wasn't dog meat.

555
00:32:10,420 --> 00:32:14,800
It was brisket.
And it was a very nice story.

556
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,800
He's feeding homeless people,
hundreds of homeless people, but

557
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,080
they turned it into dog to make
it much more like, he's evil.

558
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,400
He's a horrible person, killing
dogs to feed these homeless

559
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,000
people.
And I just felt like, before,

560
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,360
you know, why are we doing this?
Like, right.

561
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,960
Why start an argument over
something so crazy like this?

562
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,580
But again, for him, it's a
religion.

563
00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:41,060
You know, it's it's what he
believes.

564
00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:42,900
And I respect that.
I'm okay with it.

565
00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:48,420
Moving on.
So at the start of this podcast,

566
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:51,020
you had been in the business for
about 46 years.

567
00:32:51,020 --> 00:32:53,980
It's probably 46 1/2 now because
we just spent half a year

568
00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:59,900
talking about BBQ.
I mean 46 years, That's hell of

569
00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:02,240
a long time.
I'm kind of like the mold in

570
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,760
your crawl space.
I was there before anybody else

571
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,560
got here kind of thing.
I I guess I look at myself as

572
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,040
like a tweener.
So you have like the the

573
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,840
original people that founded
this business, one of which I

574
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,480
was fortunate enough to work for
a gentleman by the name of Bill

575
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,560
McManus and you know I worked
for him.

576
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,320
I I knew Bob C very, very well.
I knew Tom Fields very well and.

577
00:33:28,890 --> 00:33:33,730
I was not of that generation.
I was the next go round, yeah,

578
00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:43,890
basically the same as me.
I started really early in in

579
00:33:43,890 --> 00:33:46,930
1975, well to to go all the way
back.

580
00:33:34,890 --> 00:33:37,850
I think you're a couple years
older than me, but we're we're

581
00:33:37,850 --> 00:33:40,730
the same generation I started a
little later in the business

582
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:47,970
than you did a few.
And my family.

583
00:33:48,050 --> 00:33:52,610
I was born and raised as a kid
little kid in South Jersey and

584
00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:55,250
then my family moved to
Delaware.

585
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:58,390
So my formative years like.
Junior high high school, all

586
00:33:58,390 --> 00:34:00,950
that.
I grew up in Delaware and my

587
00:34:01,350 --> 00:34:05,150
this best mate at the time
played drums.

588
00:34:05,150 --> 00:34:07,590
He ended up getting a band with
his two older cousins.

589
00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:12,310
And so my entire junior high and
high school years were spent in

590
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:15,110
the basement rehearsing.
And I used to joke and say I

591
00:34:15,110 --> 00:34:17,949
played the couch because I was
just always there.

592
00:34:18,650 --> 00:34:24,250
So that started in 73.
So by 75 I built my own homemade

593
00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:27,489
lighting rig out of, you know,
my console was, you know, wall

594
00:34:27,489 --> 00:34:31,850
dimmers and switches and stuff
and R40 Park cans.

595
00:34:32,010 --> 00:34:34,690
But I was smart enough not to
use like colored light bulbs.

596
00:34:34,690 --> 00:34:36,810
I actually went and bought gel
somewhere.

597
00:34:36,810 --> 00:34:41,330
I found a place where you could
go and buy gel and but then in

598
00:34:41,330 --> 00:34:46,810
1977 it was August the 77, so it
was right before I would have

599
00:34:46,810 --> 00:34:48,409
gone into my senior year in high
school.

600
00:34:48,830 --> 00:34:55,230
I got an opportunity to work for
a very popular local band that

601
00:34:55,230 --> 00:34:58,870
played the club circuit.
So I liberated my older

602
00:34:58,870 --> 00:35:01,910
brother's birth certificate,
went to motor vehicle and got a

603
00:35:01,910 --> 00:35:04,110
driver's license with my picture
and all his.

604
00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:07,830
That's awesome.
And I went to to school every

605
00:35:07,830 --> 00:35:10,270
day and worked at bars every,
you know, at night.

606
00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:14,230
I was making $75 a week and I
did that.

607
00:35:15,590 --> 00:35:17,790
All the way through my Senior
High School and then we went on

608
00:35:17,790 --> 00:35:21,310
tour all up and down the the
Mid-Atlantic in the Northeast

609
00:35:21,310 --> 00:35:24,710
that following summer.
So that was the beginning of

610
00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:26,790
getting paid.
And yeah, there you go.

611
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:30,230
That's, that's interesting.
So, I mean, was it just a

612
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:33,270
burning desire that this is what
you wanted to do for some reason

613
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:35,750
or you just were the one guy
that couldn't play an

614
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:37,790
instrument?
So they say you're the lighting

615
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:40,550
guy.
It was a it was a combination of

616
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:42,390
things.
It started out as my friend

617
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:44,630
wanting me to be the lighting
guy because he wanted lighting.

618
00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:49,190
And obviously I was just always
there and I just wasn't taking

619
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:52,070
it seriously and we're just kind
of dabbling and all that.

620
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:58,590
And then I went and saw Rush and
that was that was life changing,

621
00:35:58,590 --> 00:36:01,310
I mean jaw-dropping, life
changing.

622
00:36:01,550 --> 00:36:04,030
And I was like now I know what I
want to do for the rest of my

623
00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:08,310
life and and ironically many,
many, many years later, Howard

624
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:09,950
and I became really good
friends.

625
00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:12,990
So that was kind of cool and
but.

626
00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:15,350
Yeah, his.
I just thought his work was so

627
00:36:15,350 --> 00:36:18,910
awesome.
And you know, it's just PRT of a

628
00:36:18,910 --> 00:36:20,470
C l's.
But man, what he did was

629
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:23,350
amazing.
And granted, Russia's music was

630
00:36:23,350 --> 00:36:26,350
built for lights for sure.
Oh, hell yeah.

631
00:36:27,070 --> 00:36:29,990
And yeah, and it just, it just
went from there.

632
00:36:30,190 --> 00:36:35,950
And and the the the experiences
over the next 18 or 19 years

633
00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:39,590
were incredibly varied.
So I heard something and I don't

634
00:36:39,590 --> 00:36:43,820
know if this is true or not, but
I heard you were like employee

635
00:36:43,820 --> 00:36:47,140
number one at main light.
I was the OG.

636
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:51,700
You were the OG at main light.
We so me and my buddy started

637
00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:54,740
hearing these rumors.
There was a sound company in

638
00:36:54,740 --> 00:36:58,020
Delaware called Wonder Sound and
we started hearing these rumors

639
00:36:58,020 --> 00:37:00,660
that a lighting guy had set up
shop there.

640
00:37:01,900 --> 00:37:04,700
There was a bar band in
Baltimore at the time called

641
00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:07,620
Vanessa.
Really super super talented prog

642
00:37:07,620 --> 00:37:11,290
rock band.
You know female backup singers,

643
00:37:11,290 --> 00:37:13,330
multiple keyboard players and
all that.

644
00:37:14,050 --> 00:37:16,530
And this guy was their lighting
guy.

645
00:37:16,530 --> 00:37:18,450
And so he started this lighting
company.

646
00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:22,490
So I went up and met Itis
Gimbatas and he was sitting in a

647
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:25,610
chair in a little tiny corner of
the sound company and he had

648
00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:29,490
five Altman #65 for nails and
that was his lighting company

649
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:33,330
and and I just wouldn't leave
and I would just show up every

650
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:35,680
day and hang around and.
He didn't have any money to pay

651
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,400
me but he would buy me lunch at
Burger King every day because

652
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,280
Itis always ate at Burger King
every day and yeah and it just

653
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:50,200
evolved out of there and in that
was that was late 78, early 79 I

654
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:56,680
think and in like 80 or so there
was a whole big thing between

655
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,240
him and the sound company guy
whatever and and Itis was

656
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:03,360
getting sucked into some places
he didn't want to go so he he.

657
00:38:04,250 --> 00:38:07,410
Got his own building and changed
it was Wilmington Stage last and

658
00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:10,570
changed it to Main Light.
So I got to tell you a funny Ida

659
00:38:10,570 --> 00:38:15,170
story.
So you know when I first went to

660
00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:19,010
work for High End I didn't know.
I just I didn't know Main Light.

661
00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:20,770
I had never done any business
with them.

662
00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:28,330
And so Craig Burris takes me to
to meet Idas and of course he

663
00:38:28,330 --> 00:38:30,530
doesn't tell me that Idas has
Tourette's before.

664
00:38:30,530 --> 00:38:33,870
He takes me to meet him.
And we decide to meet him at his

665
00:38:33,870 --> 00:38:36,190
golf course and we're going to
play a round of golf.

666
00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:42,350
And I'm a fairly terrible golfer
as it is, but, you know, no

667
00:38:42,350 --> 00:38:44,030
problem.
I'm looking forward to meeting

668
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:45,790
this guy.
I've heard a few stories about

669
00:38:45,790 --> 00:38:48,470
him already and great guy and
good company and everything

670
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:50,990
else.
So we're on the first Friggin

671
00:38:50,990 --> 00:38:53,110
tee box and of course they make
me go 1st.

672
00:38:53,390 --> 00:38:57,550
And so I'm standing there doing
my little, you know, club waggle

673
00:38:57,550 --> 00:39:00,270
thing and getting ready to pull
back the driver.

674
00:39:00,270 --> 00:39:06,940
And every time I went to go
back, he'd go, you know, and I

675
00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:09,780
mean, I'd stop and didn't say
anything.

676
00:39:09,780 --> 00:39:11,100
I don't even know the guy,
right?

677
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:14,020
So I'd put my club back down, do
the little waggle, go to go back

678
00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:19,340
and finally I turn around and I
go, what the fuck is wrong with

679
00:39:19,340 --> 00:39:21,060
me?
Like, are you messing with me or

680
00:39:21,060 --> 00:39:24,540
something?
And and he's like, no, no, you

681
00:39:24,540 --> 00:39:25,500
don't know.
I got Tourette's.

682
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:28,260
But he was fucking with me.
Like he was just doing this on

683
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:33,390
purpose thinking I knew he had
Tourette's and you know I love

684
00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:36,030
the guy.
From then on I I just, you know,

685
00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:38,110
I was like this guy is my kind
of guy.

686
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:42,510
You know, I loved that he did
that and and I've always really

687
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:43,990
enjoyed doing business with
itis.

688
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:49,870
He was a he's an awesome mentor.
We were for for a long, long

689
00:39:49,870 --> 00:39:50,990
time.
We were best of friends.

690
00:39:50,990 --> 00:39:55,430
I was in his wedding party.
He was in my wedding party and

691
00:39:55,630 --> 00:39:58,670
and he would.
For years, not only was I the

692
00:39:58,670 --> 00:40:01,750
first employees, the only
employee for for many years and

693
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:04,270
he'd go golf for like 3 days, I
wouldn't see him.

694
00:40:04,270 --> 00:40:07,470
I'm like a 20 year old kid
opening the shop and closing the

695
00:40:07,470 --> 00:40:09,670
shop every day.
Yeah, but.

696
00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:12,990
You have to be there for those
really early, like Richard

697
00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:15,470
Bellavue high end days and
stuff, when those two were

698
00:40:15,470 --> 00:40:17,350
collaborating.
All kinds of funny stuff.

699
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:22,750
Yeah, so this is a long and
twisted kind of thing.

700
00:40:22,750 --> 00:40:27,340
So there's this dude that.
I knew from a band that I used

701
00:40:27,340 --> 00:40:29,100
to be involved with called the
Dead End Kids.

702
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:34,900
It was really cool band, but
drugs did them in and he had

703
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:41,100
created this wand strobe and
ended up through Great American

704
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:43,340
Market.
It became the star strobe if you

705
00:40:43,340 --> 00:40:46,900
remember that barely.
The difference is the star

706
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:51,220
strobe was wimpy and Gabe's were
not.

707
00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:54,060
Well, Gabe and I ended up in a
bit of a.

708
00:40:56,980 --> 00:41:02,580
Business arrangement that he
owed me some money and he didn't

709
00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:05,820
have the money to give it to me.
So he ended up giving me a bunch

710
00:41:05,820 --> 00:41:10,100
of these unfinished strobes and
he wasn't doing anything with

711
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:11,820
them at the time.
At that point in time it was

712
00:41:11,820 --> 00:41:14,420
like a long, long gone away
thing.

713
00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:16,580
So we started making them at
main light.

714
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:19,900
We called it the Pulse Star and
it was It was a random

715
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:23,540
triggering wandstrobe and they
were bright as can be.

716
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:29,640
And we were doing really well.
This was still in the heyday of

717
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,400
the disco era and so nightclub,
disco, nightclubs and stuff like

718
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,200
that.
And there was a company in

719
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,360
Austin, TX that did club
installations called Blackstone

720
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,400
Audio Visual and they were they
were our best customer.

721
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,400
They were buying 500 a month and
on average we're 500 and back

722
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,500
order and.
Yeah, so I knew that, you know

723
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:50,620
that's who became high end.
That's wild.

724
00:41:50,620 --> 00:41:54,460
I did not know that story about
the you guys had the original

725
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:57,460
strobe and then so tell me the
next part of it like that they

726
00:41:57,460 --> 00:41:59,460
just copy it and screw you and
stuff.

727
00:42:00,020 --> 00:42:02,580
Not at all.
So then we evolved into a

728
00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:05,620
digital chaseable one, like a
controllable one.

729
00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:08,660
And it was cool.
It looked like a miniature eyes,

730
00:42:08,660 --> 00:42:11,580
like a par 36 size V L2.
It was pretty cool.

731
00:42:11,580 --> 00:42:14,620
It was really powerful.
I actually I built.

732
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:19,100
The very first system into a
stage at Tate when I was in my

733
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:24,860
20s and for a Judas Priest tour,
and I I'm pretty sure that it

734
00:42:24,860 --> 00:42:28,220
was Mickey Kerbishley's very
first gig as a crew chief.

735
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,900
And so I went up there and I
built him into that.

736
00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:36,580
I debuted the product in High
Ends booth at the very first

737
00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:39,860
LDI, and at the time I didn't
even think it was called.

738
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:43,350
No, it was in Dallas.
I don't think it was called high

739
00:42:43,350 --> 00:42:45,910
end at the time.
It was light wave research and

740
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:48,430
the high end thing was kind of
wasn't Dallas the second year?

741
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:52,390
I think Dallas was Nashville was
the first year and Dallas was

742
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:55,230
the 2nd year because I went to
the Dallas one, but I wasn't at

743
00:42:55,230 --> 00:42:57,230
the one.
Before that and maybe it was the

744
00:42:57,230 --> 00:43:00,350
one in Nashville, it was, but it
was the very first one and they

745
00:43:00,550 --> 00:43:05,510
they had a booth and the product
was really, really, really well

746
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:10,280
received itis is.
A lot of what I just did, he was

747
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,160
first generation Lithuanian.
So a lot of what he did came out

748
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,080
of that Lithuanian community.
And the engineer that we were

749
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,960
using to work on this was a
family friend, Lithuanian guy.

750
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,840
And he had, he just had one
family crisis after another and

751
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,920
he had a he just had to step
away.

752
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,880
He could no longer work on the
project.

753
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,680
And then I think financially you
know the the loss of that and

754
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,080
then probably financially so
yeah itis and Bellevue got

755
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,680
together and and.
And he handed it over and it

756
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,240
became the data flash.
That's incredible.

757
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,320
I didn't know.
They made it much, physically,

758
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,280
much larger and all that.
But that's where.

759
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,240
That's where the genesis of that
all came out of on the data.

760
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:52,400
Flash was such a game changer.
I mean, it changed strobes

761
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:53,280
forever.
Really.

762
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:54,400
Yeah.
Yeah.

763
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,120
I remember I never got a chance
to see the show, but I remember

764
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,400
thinking it was the coolest
thing.

765
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,800
This, I think this was the
AF1000 level, you know is the

766
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,200
the next level up?
But, and I don't know who the LD

767
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,960
was that did this, but it was
White Zombie Tour and they were

768
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,240
using prerig lamp bars fitted
with 6AF1 thousands with

769
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:18,600
scrollers on them as big fat
washes.

770
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,600
And he would just hit it until
it was thermal and then he'd hit

771
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,880
some others until they would
thermal.

772
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,440
It just sounded like that was
really, really cool.

773
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,920
But at that LDI they debuted,
was that like Las Upton or

774
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,300
something?
It might have been laser.

775
00:44:34,580 --> 00:44:36,700
That's something he That sounds
like something he would do.

776
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:38,940
Yeah.
I thought he worked with Zombie

777
00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:40,020
back then.
I don't remember.

778
00:44:40,020 --> 00:44:42,180
It could have been, yeah,
Laser's.

779
00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:46,140
I mean the the to me.
The thing that blew me away was

780
00:44:46,140 --> 00:44:48,700
Michael Jackson.
Dangerous with the whole back

781
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:53,590
way, a back wall of them, you
know, it was just like wow in

782
00:44:53,590 --> 00:44:55,510
your face.
I don't even remember how many

783
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:58,230
it was, but it was hundreds of
data flash or a F.

784
00:44:58,310 --> 00:45:03,470
I had to do a video to for a
flying rig for the Victory tour,

785
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:07,790
the Jacksonville Victory Tour,
and Bill McManus had this ground

786
00:45:07,790 --> 00:45:12,750
support flying rig and we, you
know, we'd set it all up and he

787
00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:16,110
was shooting a video using the
office receptionist because she

788
00:45:16,110 --> 00:45:19,200
was a cute young lady.
And I just kept saying, this is

789
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,520
pathetic, man, because she looks
like a sack of potatoes.

790
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,680
Come on you.
And he was like, all right wise

791
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,000
ass, if you can do it better get
in that harness and do it.

792
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,120
So I was flying around in this
thing.

793
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,320
So we saw that people and it got
on the tour.

794
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,040
That's really funny.
That's a good one.

795
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,480
So what are, what are some of
your, like, really memorable

796
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,800
early gigs?
Not just rock'n'roll gigs, but

797
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,710
any kind of gig.
Okay, This is really this.

798
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:50,070
This goes to the Way Back
machine and this dates, dates,

799
00:45:50,070 --> 00:45:56,470
my age, big time.
I did a gig at Penn State for a

800
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:59,790
one hit wonder band called
Frankie and the Knockouts.

801
00:45:59,790 --> 00:46:01,830
I remember them and their.
Drummer.

802
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:03,990
I can't remember it.
I wish I could.

803
00:46:04,030 --> 00:46:09,790
I can't remember it.
The drummer is Tito from Bon

804
00:46:09,790 --> 00:46:11,100
Jovi.
Really.

805
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:13,820
And the reason he was the
drummer and Frankie in the

806
00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:17,140
Knockouts, because there wasn't
Bon Jovi yet.

807
00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:22,780
It predates all of that.
And this will be Bon Jovi's 40th

808
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:25,460
year, that this year is his 40th
anniversary.

809
00:46:25,660 --> 00:46:28,180
So this was before that.
That was kind of a cool gig.

810
00:46:30,340 --> 00:46:35,500
When I was 23 years old, I was
standing on the stage at JF, now

811
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,700
long gone JFK Stadium in front
of 90,000 people.

812
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:41,900
For the synchronicity tour, like
throwing frisbees and beach

813
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:45,580
balls back out into the house
because it was something to do

814
00:46:45,580 --> 00:46:46,460
with it.
Because it's a lot.

815
00:46:47,020 --> 00:46:51,340
Lot of cool gigs.
I lit a lot of stuff when I

816
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:53,340
worked at McManus for Why World
Sports?

817
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:55,940
Because that was a thing that he
really had dialed in at the

818
00:46:55,940 --> 00:46:58,540
time.
And I've lit title fights for

819
00:46:58,540 --> 00:47:02,500
Larry Holmes and Marvin Hagler.
I lit pool matches for Willie

820
00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:07,270
Moscone in Minnesota Fats, which
is really cool boxing and oh

821
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:08,990
really?
And it's sort of fat.

822
00:47:09,470 --> 00:47:12,110
Yeah, and I I stood next to
Johnny Lee Hooker while he's

823
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:14,470
drinking a Budweiser out of a
brown paper bag.

824
00:47:14,910 --> 00:47:16,910
That's awesome.
It's really cool.

825
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:18,590
Lot, lot of cool.
Different stuff.

826
00:47:18,590 --> 00:47:21,030
Fight lighting was so different
back then, right?

827
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:22,590
It was just yeah.
It was metal halide.

828
00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:26,430
Yeah, like just metal halides.
Now it's 1000 moving lights.

829
00:47:26,990 --> 00:47:31,870
Yeah, yeah.
It's totally different but but

830
00:47:31,870 --> 00:47:34,950
the the boxing package that that
Bill created was.

831
00:47:36,580 --> 00:47:38,260
That was that was a money making
machine.

832
00:47:38,260 --> 00:47:40,860
I mean, you know, we were all
over the place doing that stuff.

833
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:45,780
And yeah, just a lot of a lot of
cool stuff, a lot of, you know,

834
00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:48,100
fashion shows, corporate gigs,
trade shows.

835
00:47:50,340 --> 00:47:54,140
Tim ISON did a whole bunch of
stuff for him, for Engelbert.

836
00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:58,460
And yeah, you did some skating
stuff too, right?

837
00:47:59,180 --> 00:48:03,660
Yeah, that actually, the last
official gig I ever did before I

838
00:48:03,660 --> 00:48:09,120
evolved into sales was in 1996.
And it was for Billy Brennan,

839
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:14,480
for NBC's broadcast of the World
Figure Skating Championship.

840
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,040
And we're sitting there having
meetings and you know, we're

841
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,000
going to run like 800 miles of
Truss and put up thousands of

842
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,960
park ends.
And I just said, you know, I

843
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,440
think there's a, I think there's
a newer way to do this.

844
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,320
And I used 54 cyber lights and
nothing else.

845
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,720
And I remember, I remember after
we talked about it and discussed

846
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:37,570
it.
Before we went into the meeting

847
00:48:37,570 --> 00:48:42,050
to pitch this to NBC, he said,
if this works, I just want you

848
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:45,010
to know that I'm going to take
all the credit and if it goes

849
00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:46,890
wrong, you're going to take all
the blame.

850
00:48:47,090 --> 00:48:49,930
And I was like, I was like, I'm
in, dude, you know, let's, let's

851
00:48:49,930 --> 00:48:50,730
go.
Let's do it.

852
00:48:51,370 --> 00:48:53,970
And it worked.
It had some holes in it.

853
00:48:54,090 --> 00:48:59,090
It it it consecutive gigs after
that because I that was it.

854
00:48:59,090 --> 00:49:01,370
That was my last gig.
But Randy Mulligan, who's the

855
00:49:01,370 --> 00:49:05,260
CEO of Main Light currently?
He, he took that and ran with it

856
00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:09,140
and he pumped up to like 74
units or something like that to

857
00:49:09,140 --> 00:49:11,220
fill in some of the holes.
But it worked great because for

858
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:14,820
all the bumper stuff we had all
this cool color and gobos and

859
00:49:15,980 --> 00:49:20,180
for the gig itself, it was
beautifully lit and it was, it

860
00:49:20,180 --> 00:49:23,620
was the experience of all the
sport lighter stuff at McManus.

861
00:49:23,620 --> 00:49:26,140
That gave me the idea because
that's what, you know, the cyber

862
00:49:26,140 --> 00:49:29,260
light was just a huge, huge beam
of light.

863
00:49:30,670 --> 00:49:33,110
Yeah.
I mean it's becoming more and

864
00:49:33,110 --> 00:49:36,590
more common for that kind of
thing to happen where people are

865
00:49:36,590 --> 00:49:40,950
using moving lights as area
lighting, you know, because it's

866
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:45,550
just, you know, as a temporary,
like, you know, racing is is one

867
00:49:45,550 --> 00:49:47,550
of the areas I've seen it done
where they're setting up

868
00:49:47,550 --> 00:49:50,510
temporary tracks.
And it's just it's more flexible

869
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:53,310
and it's easier to do with
moving lights than it is to do

870
00:49:53,310 --> 00:49:56,870
with large either LED's or metal
halides or whatever they are.

871
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,720
So, and I actually think, isn't
there one, I think I just read

872
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:06,200
on social media this morning
that Ayrton's doing something

873
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,360
with the Singapore one.
They're lighting up the because

874
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,480
the Singapore Grand Prix is
going to a night race this year

875
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,880
and they're lighting it.
So that'll be interesting.

876
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,560
Speak of the devil.
Speak of the devil.

877
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:26,350
So why and when and how was the
transition to the dark side from

878
00:50:26,550 --> 00:50:31,310
from lighting to lighting sales?
It was it was staggered because

879
00:50:31,310 --> 00:50:37,070
it it, it went operational first
and then into sales.

880
00:50:37,350 --> 00:50:45,070
So in 96 I just wanted, I was, I
just wanted something.

881
00:50:45,070 --> 00:50:47,670
I wanted a bigger pond to play
in I guess I could say.

882
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:54,190
And so I left Main Light.
And went and opened T MB's East

883
00:50:54,190 --> 00:50:58,910
Coast shop, something that they
had wanted to do for a long

884
00:50:58,910 --> 00:51:01,310
time.
And we had been talking about it

885
00:51:01,310 --> 00:51:05,790
for about two years.
Colin and Tommy myself had been

886
00:51:05,790 --> 00:51:07,310
discussing it for a couple of
years.

887
00:51:07,830 --> 00:51:12,110
And so finally it happened and
sometime in the latter part of

888
00:51:12,110 --> 00:51:16,750
96 or during the summer or
something and I mean I

889
00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:19,190
literally, you know, found the
building.

890
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,720
Got the phone system, the alarm
system, the fork truck, the

891
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,880
pallet racking.
Opened the bank account, you

892
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,680
know you you name it every bit
of it and and hired all the

893
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,800
people.
Started a cable shop and and the

894
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,200
rest is history.
Sounds like one of those, you

895
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,520
know, Tommy conversations where
it was like okay.

896
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,320
Brian, we're going to do this,
but you know, you got to deal

897
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,160
with everything you, you know,
we're going to agree to do it,

898
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,640
but you got to do everything.
All right, All right, all right.

899
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,830
Let's have a beer.
Kind of, yes.

900
00:51:51,590 --> 00:51:55,750
And so, yeah, it was good.
And it it was a, it was a great

901
00:51:55,750 --> 00:52:02,670
learning experience.
While I had a lot of experience

902
00:52:02,670 --> 00:52:06,790
dealing with a business because
of of working closely with itis,

903
00:52:07,110 --> 00:52:09,710
I'd never done anything like
that on my own before.

904
00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:15,430
And so a couple of years into
it, Colin realized, like, this

905
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:17,270
is, this is silly.
Like you're.

906
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:23,800
You're so much more valuable to
us with the customers than you

907
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:30,240
are operationally.
And so I evolved into it at that

908
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,680
point.
So it was a couple years into it

909
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:38,000
that I evolved into that.
It's I love the people, I love

910
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,200
being with people.
And the one of the coolest parts

911
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,360
about being in this industry is
like over 90% of everybody I've

912
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:46,840
ever met in this industry
school.

913
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,000
And so it just worked out that
it's sort of evolved.

914
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,960
So tell me, who are the 5% who
aren't cool?

915
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,240
Never mind.
Give me a small list.

916
00:52:56,240 --> 00:53:01,800
Come on.
No, I mean, it's the cool thing

917
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,760
about being in sales in this
industry because I've, even

918
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,040
though I'm a business owner and
have been for years, I've always

919
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:12,040
been a sales guy.
And really, it's about solving

920
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,120
problems.
It's not about, you know,

921
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,880
talking people into buying
things or fighting over buying

922
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,960
things or, you know, sometimes,
yeah, there's some real salesy

923
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,760
stuff involved, but usually it's
just solving problems.

924
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,120
What do you, what do you need to
do?

925
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,800
And let me help you find a way
to do that.

926
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,200
Right.
And that's that's absolutely

927
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,360
what it is.
It's it's solving their issue,

928
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,800
solving their problem.
It's integrity because that's a

929
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,440
huge thing for me.
When I was doing gigs, I could

930
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,640
walk into an arena and pulling
up in the air and say that's all

931
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,470
there because of me.
When you're doing sales, all you

932
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:49,390
have is your integrity.
And if you screw that up, you're

933
00:53:49,390 --> 00:53:52,750
done.
And, and, and I know people in

934
00:53:52,750 --> 00:53:56,430
our industry who are like that.
I know people in our industry

935
00:53:56,430 --> 00:54:00,150
who I I like a lot.
And they've never done a gig.

936
00:54:00,510 --> 00:54:01,870
And they're good.
They're successful.

937
00:54:01,870 --> 00:54:04,430
They're they're counterparts of
mine and competitors and they've

938
00:54:04,430 --> 00:54:07,310
never done a gig.
I happen to be one of those

939
00:54:07,310 --> 00:54:09,750
people.
I've never done a gig and I've

940
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:11,150
done pretty well in the
industry.

941
00:54:11,230 --> 00:54:13,510
Yeah, and and and that's great,
but what I.

942
00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:16,740
What I can't deal with is, is
the few people that you know

943
00:54:16,740 --> 00:54:19,700
that are just dodgy as hell.
And it's like I can't, I can't

944
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:22,060
do that.
If I tell you I can do

945
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:24,740
something, it's going to happen
and I'm not going to let you

946
00:54:24,740 --> 00:54:32,300
down and I've over time over
this.

947
00:54:32,540 --> 00:54:35,780
I'm jumping way ahead now and we
can go into that later.

948
00:54:35,780 --> 00:54:39,780
But but building sales teams and
things like that was a whole

949
00:54:39,780 --> 00:54:42,140
another that was like a whole
another plateau at a whole

950
00:54:42,140 --> 00:54:46,730
another level.
And that that was interesting

951
00:54:46,730 --> 00:54:51,770
and different too.
But the while I kind of always

952
00:54:51,770 --> 00:54:54,650
liked being the Art of the Deal
guy, I like trying to because

953
00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:57,970
that's part of figuring out how
to help people to figure out how

954
00:54:57,970 --> 00:55:01,890
can we make this work.
But there have been occasions

955
00:55:01,890 --> 00:55:05,810
where you quote, UN quote, talk
somebody into something and that

956
00:55:05,810 --> 00:55:09,540
usually doesn't work out well.
That usually comes back with no,

957
00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:12,260
I mean when it doesn't feel
really good to you, like you're

958
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:15,020
selling some shit that you
needed to get rid of out of the

959
00:55:15,020 --> 00:55:17,620
warehouse because your boss was
yelling at you about it or

960
00:55:17,620 --> 00:55:20,460
whatever.
It usually doesn't end really

961
00:55:20,460 --> 00:55:23,540
well, you know, and and it
doesn't feel good while you're

962
00:55:23,540 --> 00:55:25,740
doing it, and it doesn't feel
good after you did it.

963
00:55:25,740 --> 00:55:29,540
And it comes back to bite you
somehow, You know, that reminds

964
00:55:29,540 --> 00:55:34,940
me of selling, you know, being
challenged by Peter Johansson to

965
00:55:34,940 --> 00:55:42,700
sell 500 Martin pals in 1996 or
7 when it came out.

966
00:55:43,220 --> 00:55:47,700
And I've regretted everyone I
sold since then, you know,

967
00:55:47,780 --> 00:55:49,780
because they all came back to
haunt me.

968
00:55:49,780 --> 00:55:53,060
Like there's one particular
lighting designer, Mike Ladesma.

969
00:55:53,060 --> 00:55:54,820
Every time.
Every time I see him, he's like,

970
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:59,140
hey, remember those pals you
made me by that time for Gloria

971
00:55:59,140 --> 00:56:02,140
Stefan?
And I'm like, fuck again.

972
00:56:02,140 --> 00:56:04,580
Mike, come on.
So.

973
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,280
So the first moving lights I
ever used, this is this is a

974
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:10,760
trip.
So I was supposed to use the

975
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:17,720
very first Intellibeams, and
this is before they even started

976
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,760
to sell them.
And at the last minute I had

977
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,920
them booked on this corporate
gig in a in an actual theater

978
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,520
and Belleview went to itis and
said I can't let you.

979
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,880
I know I told you could have
these lights, but you can't have

980
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:30,840
them.
They're not ready yet.

981
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,180
So.
They supplied me with 12 comar

982
00:56:35,180 --> 00:56:38,700
Jupiters.
Oh boy, that that thing for for

983
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:42,380
anybody listening that doesn't
know that that was a moving

984
00:56:42,380 --> 00:56:45,300
headlight that was so large it
had to come apart in two pieces

985
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:46,780
before it could go in a road
case.

986
00:56:47,540 --> 00:56:50,740
And when I turned those things
on, once they were hung in the

987
00:56:50,740 --> 00:56:52,820
theater and they started to
home.

988
00:56:53,350 --> 00:56:56,270
It was so loud I thought people
were were diving for cover.

989
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:58,830
It was.
It was wild, yeah.

990
00:56:59,110 --> 00:57:01,270
Yeah.
It's funny, I had, I had Fausto

991
00:57:01,270 --> 00:57:05,950
from Komar on the podcast a few
weeks ago, and Fausto still a

992
00:57:05,950 --> 00:57:09,750
very good friend of mine today.
But he's like one of the OG's

993
00:57:09,870 --> 00:57:15,470
probably the OG of moving light,
you know, engineering,

994
00:57:15,470 --> 00:57:17,590
developing moving lights in the
world.

995
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,600
And yeah, we talked a whole
bunch about some of that stuff.

996
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,920
Like he was creating lights that
were meant to hang in

997
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,560
nightclubs, not lights that were
meant to go out on tour, right.

998
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,920
And when they ended up going out
on shows and being shipped

999
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,600
around for multi use and all of
this stuff, that's when the

1000
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,680
wheels kind of started coming
off on on some of that stuff and

1001
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,400
they had to go, whoa, we need to
sort of go back to the

1002
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,200
engineering table and make some
stuff a little more robust.

1003
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,760
But whereas Bellevue seemed to
build it knowing that it was

1004
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,160
going to go out on shows, it
wasn't just going to be in a

1005
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,960
nightclub, Yeah.
He definitely built things like

1006
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:56,480
a tank.
He had a knack.

1007
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:02,160
I, you know, I it's one of the
things like if I look back with

1008
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,120
nostalgia at our industry, one
of the saddest things is what

1009
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,560
happened to high end, you know,
and I think they're back in the

1010
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:13,400
kind of.
Book about like the arc of yeah,

1011
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,440
of everything you know, going
from.

1012
00:58:15,850 --> 00:58:19,330
Again you know who they were and
and and the all the different

1013
00:58:19,330 --> 00:58:24,730
elements that push them into
becoming a manufacturer and that

1014
00:58:24,730 --> 00:58:26,290
that's a story unto itself
there.

1015
00:58:26,290 --> 00:58:31,250
But no, but I mean just you know
how far they fell and and I mean

1016
00:58:31,250 --> 00:58:33,130
they're in a good place again
with ETC.

1017
00:58:33,130 --> 00:58:36,930
But it's still like High end is
a secondary brand now to ETC.

1018
00:58:37,210 --> 00:58:41,130
Like they used to be the shit.
Like high end was it?

1019
00:58:41,650 --> 00:58:47,020
And yeah, it makes me sad
because I grew up in the

1020
00:58:47,020 --> 00:58:50,020
industry competing against them
at Martin and they were always

1021
00:58:50,020 --> 00:58:53,700
so much better than us and so
much bigger and so much cooler

1022
00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:56,820
and they had better lights.
So we always aspired, you know,

1023
00:58:56,820 --> 00:58:59,700
it was like Hyundai chasing
Mercedes or something, right?

1024
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:02,940
And we just one day I'm going to
be like them, you know?

1025
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:07,900
And so I just always had so much
respect and and admiration for

1026
00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:12,100
that company.
And yeah, so I hated just seeing

1027
00:59:12,100 --> 00:59:16,120
where it went.
When I was, when I was with

1028
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,240
GLPI, took one of my younger
sales guys out to visit

1029
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:21,840
customers.
And so we we went and saw

1030
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:25,000
Mochrie.
And so, you know, Robert's given

1031
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,560
him the history lesson and he
was saying how you know this is

1032
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,560
something that you'll never,
it'll never be recreated, you'll

1033
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:35,120
never see it again, he said.
But it was basically varolite

1034
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,000
and moving mirrors and that's
all there was.

1035
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:46,720
And all this Morpheus, right?
But he said we debuted the the

1036
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:51,760
studio color and the studio wash
or whatever it was in Remedy.

1037
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,360
And he said people would come up
to us and say how much is it

1038
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,080
going to cost And we would say
we don't know yet.

1039
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,520
When's it going to be released?
We don't know yet.

1040
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,160
OK, I'll wire you €500,000
tomorrow.

1041
01:00:05,870 --> 01:00:07,990
Yeah, and he's like, that'll
never happen again.

1042
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:10,350
Well, cuz there was nothing you
could buy, there wasn't.

1043
01:00:10,350 --> 01:00:12,110
Yeah, there was.
Literally nothing else you could

1044
01:00:12,110 --> 01:00:15,150
buy.
So you know, it's what made

1045
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:19,230
Intellibeam so big, and it's
what made Studio color just go

1046
01:00:19,230 --> 01:00:22,510
nuts.
And yeah, I mean it.

1047
01:00:23,110 --> 01:00:27,150
You know, I hate being old, but
I like being old enough to have

1048
01:00:27,150 --> 01:00:32,150
seen the moving light industry
from its inception all the way

1049
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:34,990
through to where we are today
and, you know, today.

1050
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,760
I talked yesterday.
I had, I actually recorded Eric

1051
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,680
Todd yesterday, another jersey
guys.

1052
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,200
So this is New Jersey Week on
geezers of gear.

1053
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,400
But you know like today
everything is good.

1054
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,920
That's the crazy thing like I
happen to love the brand that

1055
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,920
you work for Ayrton.
They're also a big supporter of

1056
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:04,570
my son's racing career and but.
You know everything is good.

1057
01:01:04,570 --> 01:01:09,490
Like you can't really land on a
manufacturer and just go.

1058
01:01:09,490 --> 01:01:13,170
This stuff is shit like it
doesn't exist anymore.

1059
01:01:13,170 --> 01:01:17,210
Even like Cameo and an American
DJ and all of those things are

1060
01:01:17,250 --> 01:01:21,250
are good now.
Certainly Ayrton's better.

1061
01:01:21,450 --> 01:01:24,890
There's there's products that
are still good, better, best,

1062
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:27,770
but it but the good so much
better than it used to be.

1063
01:01:27,970 --> 01:01:29,810
You you could buy back in the
day.

1064
01:01:29,810 --> 01:01:33,560
You could buy a bad television.
Yeah, you you can't now.

1065
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:37,320
Like the worst TV in the world
is 10 million times better than

1066
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,920
the best TV was 40 years ago.
Well, and it still shocks me

1067
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:42,720
today.
And again, I'm, this is an age

1068
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,960
thing, but I walk into Costco
and I see, you know, 50 inch

1069
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,840
televisions for 199, you know,
and I'm like what, a 50 inch

1070
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:57,040
flat screen HDTV for 199 bucks?
That's ridiculous, you know.

1071
01:01:57,990 --> 01:02:00,950
And yeah, I mean, it blows me
away.

1072
01:02:00,990 --> 01:02:03,710
I just bought in my house in
Canada last year.

1073
01:02:03,710 --> 01:02:07,910
I bought a new TVI.
Think it's a 75 inch or 80 inch

1074
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:10,750
or something.
I think I paid like 2 grand for

1075
01:02:10,750 --> 01:02:14,390
it and it's amazing.
It's technology is incredible.

1076
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:18,590
This is this is a cool little
place and time technology thing

1077
01:02:18,590 --> 01:02:23,630
about that So when high end and
entered into the lawsuit with

1078
01:02:23,630 --> 01:02:31,170
Varolite there was a school in
Itas's town that he lived in

1079
01:02:31,610 --> 01:02:36,250
that I guess his kids went to
and stuff so he always would do

1080
01:02:36,410 --> 01:02:42,530
free gigs for them.
And so one day in the the

1081
01:02:42,730 --> 01:02:46,730
cafeteria or whatever you call
it like in the wings we found

1082
01:02:46,730 --> 01:02:49,730
this light.
It looked like the head of the

1083
01:02:50,130 --> 01:02:53,090
the dude from War of the Worlds
that the thing that comes out of

1084
01:02:53,090 --> 01:02:58,000
the spaceship and it was like
we're talking Bardwell

1085
01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,800
McAllister days.
As a matter of fact, I think

1086
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,760
that's who made it was Bardwell
McAllister And it was a little

1087
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,600
tiny you know fixed focus light
and it had three color wheels.

1088
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,200
They were manual color wheels
that you had to spin with your

1089
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:17,040
finger and they were you know
dyed glass color wheels.

1090
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,280
And I guess I just had told
Bellevue about it and I had to

1091
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:25,560
go up to the school and get it
and send it to Bellevue for to

1092
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:30,880
to to well to say you know, this
is IP, this is this pre predate

1093
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,240
your IP and stuff like that.
Of course it didn't win, but it

1094
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,680
was a valiant priority anyway.
Yeah, that's it.

1095
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,240
Priority.
Yeah, that's that's crazy.

1096
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,200
Yeah.
Wow.

1097
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:44,760
Yeah.
I mean, it's it.

1098
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,920
Again, I'm not happy about being
old, but I do really enjoy the

1099
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,070
fact that.
Like people today and you know

1100
01:03:52,070 --> 01:03:54,750
this is going to sound like a
real old guy, things to thing to

1101
01:03:54,750 --> 01:03:57,390
say.
But guys, these young kids

1102
01:03:57,390 --> 01:04:02,710
today, you know, I mean don't
realize that people used to

1103
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:04,990
program moving lights using
faders.

1104
01:04:04,990 --> 01:04:08,590
OK, this one's, you know, for
color, this one's for gobos,

1105
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:12,670
this one's pan, this one's tilt.
Oh, we got 16 bit now.

1106
01:04:12,670 --> 01:04:16,550
Two for pan, 2 for tilt.
You know, fine and coarse and.

1107
01:04:17,830 --> 01:04:20,230
I mean it was just the way you
did it, right?

1108
01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:24,030
Or even before that with the LCD
controllers and LED controllers,

1109
01:04:24,270 --> 01:04:27,670
the high end controllers or the
Martin one with the trackball on

1110
01:04:27,670 --> 01:04:30,230
it.
Remember that thing, the 3032 or

1111
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:35,310
2032 or whatever it was called,
but it's still going back to T

1112
01:04:35,310 --> 01:04:37,750
MB.
I mean you know we talked

1113
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:40,110
earlier about your health and
and all of those things.

1114
01:04:40,110 --> 01:04:42,590
I'm sure that's when your
biggest problem started to

1115
01:04:42,590 --> 01:04:47,610
surface was no my biggest
problems when I was around 20

1116
01:04:48,370 --> 01:04:53,330
right.
But yeah, it it T MB was made

1117
01:04:53,330 --> 01:04:56,170
for me in some ways.
In some ways it was the best

1118
01:04:56,170 --> 01:05:00,490
place I ever worked in a lot of
ways because it was it was just

1119
01:05:01,370 --> 01:05:05,530
you know awesome and Marshall
and Colin you know I'm still

1120
01:05:05,530 --> 01:05:08,610
really close with I'm I'm going
to the Yucatan fishing with

1121
01:05:08,610 --> 01:05:12,010
Marshall in about 8 weeks or
something and smoother and

1122
01:05:12,010 --> 01:05:15,710
myself and.
Oh yeah, they just did that last

1123
01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:18,070
year and Chaz went to, didn't
he?

1124
01:05:18,270 --> 01:05:19,830
He did.
He's not going this year, but

1125
01:05:19,990 --> 01:05:22,750
last year.
But yeah, it was what?

1126
01:05:22,750 --> 01:05:25,390
A fun group it it was a it was
just a can.

1127
01:05:25,390 --> 01:05:27,110
You be there without an English
accent, though.

1128
01:05:27,110 --> 01:05:30,470
Like, do you have to make one up
that group?

1129
01:05:31,470 --> 01:05:34,390
No, I'm the outcast.
Out of that group, yeah, they

1130
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:35,710
bring you because you know how
to cook.

1131
01:05:36,190 --> 01:05:39,750
That's it.
But yes, it was.

1132
01:05:39,750 --> 01:05:42,030
It was just a great.
It was a great place at a great

1133
01:05:42,030 --> 01:05:45,530
time and we had a we had a lot
of fun.

1134
01:05:45,650 --> 01:05:51,770
We, Tommy and I were were
bicoastal, kindred spirits for

1135
01:05:51,770 --> 01:05:56,090
sure.
Actually the the the year before

1136
01:05:56,090 --> 01:06:00,970
I joined T MB was the the only
year that Main Light had a their

1137
01:06:00,970 --> 01:06:03,410
own booth at LDI and that was
because of the fiber optic

1138
01:06:03,410 --> 01:06:08,330
curtain and all that stuff.
IDIS Nephew was an aspiring

1139
01:06:08,330 --> 01:06:12,250
comic book artist and he created
this superhero of the main light

1140
01:06:12,250 --> 01:06:16,680
man and it was really cool and
it, you know hit an LCD

1141
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,440
controller for his belt and.
I remember it so well, all that

1142
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,920
Intel beam sticking off his
shoulders and so I built it.

1143
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,040
I had Southwest Scenic in
Arizona build a 14 foot tall

1144
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,600
replica of this with real high
end gear and stuff built into

1145
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:38,640
and put it on the booth.
And the day I was setting him

1146
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,680
up, you know, because he, this
is a huge monstrosity goes up in

1147
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,900
pieces and people were, you
know, busting my balls left and

1148
01:06:45,900 --> 01:06:47,020
right.
You know, when we were setting

1149
01:06:47,020 --> 01:06:49,740
up, the union guys were just
like, what the, what is this?

1150
01:06:50,340 --> 01:06:54,260
And so I had most of them up.
I don't think he had his arms on

1151
01:06:54,260 --> 01:06:57,340
yet.
And we come back the next day

1152
01:06:57,420 --> 01:07:01,380
for load in and I can see like
I'm on the other side of the

1153
01:07:01,380 --> 01:07:05,220
hall and I can see this hubbub
going on like, what?

1154
01:07:05,220 --> 01:07:07,500
What's going on over there?
And then I realized whatever it

1155
01:07:07,500 --> 01:07:12,300
is, it's our booth and I get
down there and somebody had had

1156
01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:17,100
built like a three foot long
cock out of Afro State and beer

1157
01:07:17,100 --> 01:07:22,500
cans and taped it to the statue.
Oh my God for a split.

1158
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:26,100
Second Social Security video I'm
sure showed that it was Tommy.

1159
01:07:26,420 --> 01:07:29,740
Well, so for a split second I I
thought it was the union guys

1160
01:07:29,740 --> 01:07:30,940
because they were giving me a
hard time.

1161
01:07:30,940 --> 01:07:35,100
And then I realized that they
wouldn't have had the the the

1162
01:07:35,100 --> 01:07:38,540
ball G to do it.
And so then I immediately just

1163
01:07:38,780 --> 01:07:41,740
marched over to Tmv's booth
where Tommy folded like a cheap

1164
01:07:41,740 --> 01:07:43,700
camera.
He just messed up right away.

1165
01:07:43,860 --> 01:07:46,460
That's so funny.
So he did it, Yeah.

1166
01:07:46,460 --> 01:07:48,740
And then Jackie Tian was so
pissed because there's all

1167
01:07:48,740 --> 01:07:52,380
these, like, Japanese people
taking pictures and all and say

1168
01:07:52,420 --> 01:07:55,260
I have to go take this thing off
and I'm like cleaning all the

1169
01:07:55,260 --> 01:07:57,900
gaffers tape smooth off the
crotch of the statue.

1170
01:07:58,900 --> 01:08:04,230
That is hilarious, yeah.
I I've had some funny Tommy

1171
01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:06,390
moments.
I remember one time we were

1172
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:11,790
supposed to go see a client, and
I think I was with Martin at the

1173
01:08:11,790 --> 01:08:14,390
time and we were supposed to go
see a client and he goes, I got

1174
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:16,750
to stop by my house, you know,
let's just run by my house,

1175
01:08:16,750 --> 01:08:19,189
we'll run by my house.
We go to his house and it's

1176
01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:24,149
probably 2 in the afternoon.
We ended up at his house till

1177
01:08:24,149 --> 01:08:28,189
like 2 in the morning watching
Fawlty Towers and getting drunk

1178
01:08:28,189 --> 01:08:31,840
off our asses.
And and then I took a taxi to my

1179
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:34,040
hotel and we missed the
appointments that we were

1180
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:35,560
supposed to be at and
everything.

1181
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:39,080
And I watched every episode of
Fawlty Towers, probably twice.

1182
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,800
And just a hilarious, hilarious
day.

1183
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,560
I mean, I I think my face hurt
from laughing.

1184
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:52,040
He was an awesome guy.
We, we were at LDI probably the

1185
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:57,279
first or second year I was at
TMV and there was a it was at

1186
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:02,810
the Peabody, it was in Orlando
and there was some other you

1187
01:09:02,810 --> 01:09:06,330
know, corporate type event going
on at the same time as LDI.

1188
01:09:06,810 --> 01:09:08,810
And we're all hanging out at the
bar drinking and stuff.

1189
01:09:09,130 --> 01:09:13,370
And there's a suit and tie guys.
And there's this, this woman who

1190
01:09:13,370 --> 01:09:16,729
is a good bit older than us and
extraordinarily attractive in a

1191
01:09:17,290 --> 01:09:19,529
business pantsuit.
And she was getting, you could

1192
01:09:19,529 --> 01:09:22,910
tell she was getting lit and
she's going from one table to

1193
01:09:22,910 --> 01:09:25,310
the other with these guys.
And I guess she finally realizes

1194
01:09:25,310 --> 01:09:27,950
that these dudes that don't look
the same as all the guys she's

1195
01:09:27,950 --> 01:09:30,790
hanging out with.
So she she comes up.

1196
01:09:31,270 --> 01:09:34,350
And actually I do this every
time I got to back up.

1197
01:09:34,350 --> 01:09:38,550
So when we get to Florida, we
rented a 15 person passenger van

1198
01:09:39,470 --> 01:09:43,510
and because it's a big group of
T MB people and T MB people

1199
01:09:43,510 --> 01:09:47,310
always did everything together.
We traveled in a pack for sure.

1200
01:09:47,689 --> 01:09:51,170
So Tommy tells the the rental
car place I need you to take the

1201
01:09:51,170 --> 01:09:55,130
back seat and the spare tire out
because we needed room to put

1202
01:09:55,130 --> 01:09:57,250
shit in.
Like mainly beer probably.

1203
01:09:57,650 --> 01:09:59,450
And they said no, we're we're
not taking it out.

1204
01:09:59,450 --> 01:10:04,050
And so Tommy gets in this huge
argument with with Hertz and he

1205
01:10:04,050 --> 01:10:08,570
basically tells them he's going
to throw the back seat and the

1206
01:10:08,570 --> 01:10:10,290
spare tire over a fence
somewhere.

1207
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:12,830
So that's important later in the
story.

1208
01:10:12,830 --> 01:10:14,390
But I always forget to start
with that.

1209
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:17,790
So okay back with the the, the,
the lady at the bar.

1210
01:10:18,230 --> 01:10:22,110
So she comes over and she's
hanging with us for a while and

1211
01:10:22,830 --> 01:10:28,750
I said something to her rather
provocatively that I'll leave

1212
01:10:28,750 --> 01:10:32,190
that little detail out.
And she responded in a way that

1213
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:35,990
that just made me go, whoa, I am
dealing with somebody serious

1214
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:39,580
here.
And eventually she goes about

1215
01:10:39,580 --> 01:10:41,540
her way.
Now it's like 3 in the morning

1216
01:10:41,540 --> 01:10:43,940
or whatever.
The bar closes and we we decided

1217
01:10:43,940 --> 01:10:47,740
we didn't have enough alcohol,
so a ton of people pile in the

1218
01:10:47,740 --> 01:10:52,460
van, which we had checked the
back seat and the spare tire

1219
01:10:52,460 --> 01:10:54,940
with the bell caps when we
arrived at the hotel.

1220
01:10:55,780 --> 01:11:00,020
So why be so we could have room
for beer and stuff like that in

1221
01:11:00,020 --> 01:11:04,420
the back of the van.
So, so we go over across the

1222
01:11:04,420 --> 01:11:08,940
street to the 711 and Jaime
Duarte, who's still with TMV to

1223
01:11:08,940 --> 01:11:12,820
this day, and a young lady named
Lilia Hubbard, who at the time

1224
01:11:12,820 --> 01:11:16,780
was Aaron Hubbard's wife and she
was Colin's assistant.

1225
01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:22,180
So they go inside to 711 to get
beer and there's like a a

1226
01:11:22,180 --> 01:11:24,740
bajillion dudes in the back of
the van and I'm in the passenger

1227
01:11:24,740 --> 01:11:27,580
front passenger seat.
Tommy's driving and he said,

1228
01:11:27,580 --> 01:11:29,900
man, it's really a shame what
she said to you.

1229
01:11:30,620 --> 01:11:33,130
And I'm like, what do you mean?
And he goes, well, she she blew

1230
01:11:33,130 --> 01:11:35,490
you off.
And I said, no dude, not at all,

1231
01:11:35,570 --> 01:11:37,530
just the opposite.
You misunderstood.

1232
01:11:37,530 --> 01:11:42,210
And I explained it to him.
And in typical Tommy fashion, he

1233
01:11:42,210 --> 01:11:45,050
goes, for fuck's sake, we got to
go back.

1234
01:11:45,050 --> 01:11:49,250
And he throws the van in reverse
and just nails the gas pedal to

1235
01:11:49,250 --> 01:11:50,770
the floor.
And the van's not going

1236
01:11:50,810 --> 01:11:52,370
anywhere.
It's just sitting in the parking

1237
01:11:52,370 --> 01:11:55,800
spot facing the 711.
The back wheels are spinning

1238
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:58,040
like crazy.
Smoke is everywhere.

1239
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:01,280
And that's when the cop who was
in the parking space next to us

1240
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,000
put on his lights.
Oh.

1241
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,080
No.
Yeah, so it was.

1242
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,720
It was a whole ordeal.
So Tommy has to get out of the

1243
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:10,520
van by now.
Lilly and Jaime come out and

1244
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,400
they're holding like cases and
cases of beer in their arms.

1245
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,960
Stay out there.
It it was quite, it was quite

1246
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:18,920
the ordeal.
Have you guys been drinking at

1247
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:19,800
all?
No.

1248
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,080
No.
So Tommy has to do Again, this

1249
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,160
kind of dates things, but he's
doing the whole walk in the

1250
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,840
straight line, standing on one
foot, poking his.

1251
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:31,840
You know why?
Is that data You don't have to

1252
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:33,800
do that stuff anymore?
Well, they didn't have

1253
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,160
breathalyzers back.
Then oh oh, I get it.

1254
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,920
And it was a the process took so
long, I remember falling asleep

1255
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:46,280
in the van at one point.
But so it it what started as one

1256
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:50,840
cop car ended up five cop cars
and a police helicopter with

1257
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:55,760
like a sky tracker search.
Like at some point one of the

1258
01:12:55,760 --> 01:13:00,320
cops, I guess called the rental
car company, and the rental car

1259
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:06,080
company said is the back seat
and the spare tire in the van.

1260
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,800
And so he asked Tommy that and
Tommy's like, well, you're going

1261
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,680
to have to take a look.
But can my friends get out

1262
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,110
first?
And the cops, like, you know,

1263
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:17,590
like the record player needle
just got yanked off.

1264
01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:20,710
He's like, excuse me, friends.
The cop had never bothered to

1265
01:13:20,710 --> 01:13:23,070
look in the van.
So it was, I mean, we had people

1266
01:13:23,070 --> 01:13:27,150
from Australia, people from the
UK, and it, it was like the

1267
01:13:27,150 --> 01:13:30,430
clown car at the circus.
Like people just started pouring

1268
01:13:30,430 --> 01:13:33,910
out of the van, the cops.
It was a very embarrassing

1269
01:13:33,910 --> 01:13:36,430
moment for the cop.
But anyway, so then he radio

1270
01:13:36,430 --> 01:13:39,630
back to the rental car company
that in fact that stuff was

1271
01:13:39,630 --> 01:13:42,130
missing in the van.
And that's I think that's when

1272
01:13:42,130 --> 01:13:47,410
the helicopter showed up.
And somehow, miraculously, Tommy

1273
01:13:47,410 --> 01:13:52,770
evaded getting arrested.
During all this, Lilia panicked

1274
01:13:52,770 --> 01:13:55,730
and went back to the Peabody,
woke Marshall up, who walked

1275
01:13:55,730 --> 01:13:58,770
across International Drive in
his bare feet, walked up to the

1276
01:13:58,770 --> 01:14:01,650
cop said what's going on?
The cop explained what's going

1277
01:14:01,650 --> 01:14:04,610
on and Marshall said take him
away, turned around and went

1278
01:14:04,610 --> 01:14:05,890
back.
No way.

1279
01:14:07,330 --> 01:14:10,340
But we met Marshall.
We managed to get away from it

1280
01:14:10,340 --> 01:14:13,580
all and they towed the van, so
we didn't have a van for the

1281
01:14:13,580 --> 01:14:17,380
rest of the show.
And by now, of course, like half

1282
01:14:17,380 --> 01:14:21,020
the Peabody, LDI Wise is emptied
out and is watching this

1283
01:14:21,020 --> 01:14:23,100
spectacle because of the
helicopter and stuff.

1284
01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:26,140
It was pretty wild.
It was a it was a fantastic

1285
01:14:26,140 --> 01:14:28,260
Tommy story.
I don't know how I ever missed

1286
01:14:28,260 --> 01:14:30,020
that story.
That's a good one.

1287
01:14:30,020 --> 01:14:33,660
I like it, yeah.
It was definitely discussed a

1288
01:14:33,660 --> 01:14:37,100
lot in the days that follow.
That's wild.

1289
01:14:37,710 --> 01:14:40,710
Yeah, one, one time.
Do you know Chris Ason?

1290
01:14:41,190 --> 01:14:44,550
Yeah, I was with Chris Ason in
at Remini.

1291
01:14:45,230 --> 01:14:47,470
Was it the Remini show?
Yeah, it must have been the

1292
01:14:47,470 --> 01:14:51,590
Remini show because we were at,
you know, Malpensa airport, just

1293
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:55,550
outside of the Melania airport.
So, you know, for those who

1294
01:14:55,550 --> 01:14:59,470
don't know Malpensa there
there's the Malpensa Villa

1295
01:14:59,470 --> 01:15:01,030
Malpensa.
That's what it's called.

1296
01:15:01,460 --> 01:15:03,820
The hotel there, I don't know if
you've ever stayed there, the

1297
01:15:03,820 --> 01:15:06,860
one right at the airport and
it's the only place you can

1298
01:15:06,860 --> 01:15:08,580
stay.
Otherwise you have to stay, you

1299
01:15:08,580 --> 01:15:11,780
know downtown Milan and it's
like a 40 minute ride or

1300
01:15:11,780 --> 01:15:13,300
whatever to your flight in the
morning.

1301
01:15:13,780 --> 01:15:16,780
So we were at the hotel and we
were like I'm hungry and we go

1302
01:15:16,780 --> 01:15:20,660
in and the restaurants not
closed but there's only like us

1303
01:15:20,740 --> 01:15:26,660
and two other tables and and one
of the tables is like a foreign

1304
01:15:26,660 --> 01:15:29,750
couple and the other table.
We didn't know who it was.

1305
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:33,670
He had his back to us, I think.
And so we sit down and we order

1306
01:15:33,670 --> 01:15:37,310
a bowl of pasta or something and
Tommy comes over and smacks me

1307
01:15:37,310 --> 01:15:40,990
on the head and goes, hey
fucker, you know, and and I'm

1308
01:15:40,990 --> 01:15:44,390
like, Oh my God, how can we come
into a place with two other

1309
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:48,430
people and you're one of them.
And so he starts, you know,

1310
01:15:48,430 --> 01:15:51,110
first we were having some wine
or whatever and just having a

1311
01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:52,990
good old time.
And he starts telling us this

1312
01:15:52,990 --> 01:15:55,960
story.
About like a stripper in

1313
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,800
Thailand, at some place in
Thailand.

1314
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:01,960
And I won't go into detail
because it gets pretty gory, but

1315
01:16:02,440 --> 01:16:07,480
he he's telling this story and
he tells what the stripper did

1316
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,360
and he's not being quiet.
You know, Tommy doesn't have

1317
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:15,200
much of A or didn't have much of
an indoor voice And so a little

1318
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:18,280
while later this this couple
goes to leave the restaurant and

1319
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:22,670
they walk up and the lady says.
By the way, I don't believe that

1320
01:16:22,670 --> 01:16:25,670
stripper story.
And you know, they're American.

1321
01:16:25,670 --> 01:16:28,870
Like, what are the chances,
right in at Milan Malpensa

1322
01:16:28,870 --> 01:16:32,470
Airport, the one other table.
All the people in there at the

1323
01:16:32,470 --> 01:16:37,430
time were American and he was so
embarrassed because he was very,

1324
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:41,990
very graphic on his explanations
of what this stripper was doing.

1325
01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:45,990
But, and I miss that guy, man, I
I think our industry got a whole

1326
01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:48,590
lot more vanilla.
It did.

1327
01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:51,790
When?
When Tommy left, Large and loud.

1328
01:16:52,270 --> 01:16:56,750
Yeah, by the way, Speaking of
the unfortunate, untimely

1329
01:16:56,750 --> 01:17:00,150
passing of people, while we were
on this call, somebody text me

1330
01:17:00,150 --> 01:17:02,590
and told me Bob Roach died.
I don't know if you know Bob

1331
01:17:02,590 --> 01:17:06,790
Roach, but yeah, I've been doing
business with Bob Roach in

1332
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:09,910
Orlando for 30 years.
Really.

1333
01:17:10,990 --> 01:17:13,390
That's a shame.
Worked for Sesco forever.

1334
01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:18,430
And yeah, yeah, somebody just
sent me that message on Slack

1335
01:17:18,430 --> 01:17:21,380
while we were on the call.
So it is happening too much

1336
01:17:21,380 --> 01:17:22,660
these days.
It really is.

1337
01:17:22,700 --> 01:17:24,900
Yeah, yeah, apparently you had
cancer.

1338
01:17:24,900 --> 01:17:28,340
But yeah, now it's happening way
too much.

1339
01:17:28,340 --> 01:17:31,420
I mean, you know, Lynyrd
Skynyrd's over.

1340
01:17:32,420 --> 01:17:33,980
Apparently they're still going
to tour.

1341
01:17:33,980 --> 01:17:36,700
I just read Wow.
Which is weird.

1342
01:17:36,700 --> 01:17:39,300
No, no original members on that,
Gary, was it?

1343
01:17:39,420 --> 01:17:40,940
Yeah, I didn't know that until
this morning.

1344
01:17:40,940 --> 01:17:45,900
Ben told me that this morning
somehow that I I listened to too

1345
01:17:45,900 --> 01:17:48,500
much political stuff and I
missed that one completely.

1346
01:17:49,710 --> 01:17:55,670
I think Creech posted it
somewhere and and so yeah,

1347
01:17:55,670 --> 01:17:58,790
that's how that's how I knew
because Creech has worked with

1348
01:17:58,790 --> 01:18:01,110
them for a long time, I think
So.

1349
01:18:01,470 --> 01:18:07,630
I remember one time I was with
Bob Looney or was it Robert

1350
01:18:07,630 --> 01:18:08,910
Roth?
I don't even remember.

1351
01:18:08,910 --> 01:18:13,710
But they were here in Palm Beach
doing, doing Lynyrd Skynyrd and

1352
01:18:13,710 --> 01:18:16,110
I ended up going out with them
and hanging out with all these

1353
01:18:16,110 --> 01:18:20,080
guys and stuff and.
I can't remember exactly what

1354
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:25,560
happened, but Leon the bass
player was missing and so he

1355
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,280
just he they did a show the
night before, I think in

1356
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:31,760
Jacksonville or something and he
said, hey guys, I'm going to go

1357
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,240
hang out with these folks at
this local party or whatever.

1358
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,920
He went to some biker party and
just disappeared.

1359
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:42,230
Nobody saw him since so.
You know, it's it's sound check

1360
01:18:42,230 --> 01:18:46,070
is at 3:00 or whatever.
It's 2:30 in the afternoon and

1361
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:48,710
all of a sudden you see Leon
walking up bare feet.

1362
01:18:48,990 --> 01:18:51,630
Same clothes he was wearing last
night for the gig.

1363
01:18:52,110 --> 01:18:57,150
And he's like, I'm here for
sound check guys just walking

1364
01:18:57,150 --> 01:18:58,470
up.
Nobody knows how he got there.

1365
01:18:58,470 --> 01:19:03,240
He had no shoes on his feet and.
Yeah, so my girlfriend was

1366
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,080
saying to me today, Oh my God,
why?

1367
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:09,360
Why are people dying at 70 and
71 in in you know the music

1368
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:10,760
industry?
And I said you don't have an

1369
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,440
it's any.
It's because we live in 70 and

1370
01:19:13,440 --> 01:19:16,400
70.
Yeah, I mean, that's a long time

1371
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,000
in this business.
You know, people, people put

1372
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,400
themselves through massive pain
and then some of us like me and

1373
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:27,000
you apparently catch it early
enough to sort of reverse some

1374
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:30,900
of the damage I did.
I did find out that the only

1375
01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:34,140
organ in your body that can
repair itself is your liver, and

1376
01:19:34,140 --> 01:19:36,580
it can't repair itself like
completely.

1377
01:19:36,580 --> 01:19:40,740
But it has the only ability to
to regenerate to a degree if you

1378
01:19:40,740 --> 01:19:42,620
need it, right?
Well, I think, can't they, like,

1379
01:19:42,620 --> 01:19:44,820
cut away half your liver and it
grows back?

1380
01:19:45,820 --> 01:19:48,100
I don't know.
Like I thought that yeah, liver

1381
01:19:48,100 --> 01:19:52,540
actually is an organ that can
grow back and but.

1382
01:19:53,450 --> 01:19:56,290
Yeah, I mean, you know, again,
following all these doctors and

1383
01:19:56,290 --> 01:19:59,450
stuff that I follow now,
longevity doctors and functional

1384
01:19:59,450 --> 01:20:03,290
medicine doctors, you can
reverse a lot of things, you

1385
01:20:03,290 --> 01:20:07,570
know, diabetes and heart disease
and all kinds of things.

1386
01:20:07,570 --> 01:20:09,130
You can reverse, You can reverse
aging.

1387
01:20:09,250 --> 01:20:11,650
Aging is easy.
To get new glasses because of

1388
01:20:11,650 --> 01:20:13,690
that.
Because my eyes got better.

1389
01:20:13,690 --> 01:20:15,730
Yeah, that's I was, I was
actually.

1390
01:20:15,730 --> 01:20:20,430
I was in a in a tree bow hunting
this past fall and a deer walked

1391
01:20:20,430 --> 01:20:24,310
out and I I drew back on it and
all I could see was a brown BLOB

1392
01:20:24,710 --> 01:20:26,910
and I had to let down.
I'm not.

1393
01:20:26,910 --> 01:20:30,150
Hopefully it was a deer and not
like a freaking game officer or

1394
01:20:30,430 --> 01:20:33,470
something, but I'm not, you
know, I'm not going to take a

1395
01:20:33,630 --> 01:20:36,110
like a bad shot.
But you know, looking through my

1396
01:20:36,110 --> 01:20:39,190
peep site, I had no ability to
focus on the animal.

1397
01:20:39,310 --> 01:20:44,190
So the next day I go get my eyes
checked and she said, your eyes,

1398
01:20:44,470 --> 01:20:47,740
the reason you're having trouble
is your eyes have improved, so

1399
01:20:47,740 --> 01:20:50,580
your glasses are causing you a
problem and.

1400
01:20:50,860 --> 01:20:52,660
That's wacky.
She's like, is there anything

1401
01:20:52,660 --> 01:20:54,820
different?
And I explained what was going

1402
01:20:54,820 --> 01:20:56,420
on and she said, well, that's
it.

1403
01:20:56,420 --> 01:20:59,980
She said just like people lose
their vision with diabetes,

1404
01:21:00,020 --> 01:21:05,140
eventually, she said if you
significantly correct where your

1405
01:21:05,140 --> 01:21:07,060
glucose level are, your eyes can
get better.

1406
01:21:07,420 --> 01:21:09,180
So.
So do you wear like a glucose

1407
01:21:09,180 --> 01:21:12,220
monitor now or anything?
I just took it off yesterday

1408
01:21:12,220 --> 01:21:16,080
after three months I had.
I've been wearing them for for

1409
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:17,240
three months.
Oh, OK.

1410
01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:20,800
Like the levels one or
something, it was it's actually

1411
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,880
a company called Nutrisense, OK.
And it's a it's a libre OK.

1412
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,960
But I just did it out of pocket
for three months just to see

1413
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:31,480
and.
I've always wanted to try one

1414
01:21:31,480 --> 01:21:34,880
just to figure out.
What does and doesn't spike

1415
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,000
glucose on me.
Like I've never had problems

1416
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,040
with being diabetic or
prediabetic or anything, but

1417
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:43,600
typical of guys our age,
anything sugar and anything made

1418
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:44,600
of grains.
Yeah.

1419
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:48,600
But I mean typically of guys,
guys of our age are like insulin

1420
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,240
resistant to some extent, right?
Correct.

1421
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:54,040
And because it's just an aging
thing, it happens.

1422
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:56,770
But.
Yeah, I've always just thought,

1423
01:21:57,250 --> 01:22:00,530
you know, because some people
apparently get glucose spikes

1424
01:22:00,530 --> 01:22:02,330
from an apple, some people
don't.

1425
01:22:02,330 --> 01:22:05,130
Some people get glucose spikes
from this and other people

1426
01:22:05,130 --> 01:22:07,010
don't.
And so, yeah, I've always

1427
01:22:07,010 --> 01:22:09,130
thought about putting one on
just to see.

1428
01:22:09,130 --> 01:22:10,690
But they're also frigging
expensive.

1429
01:22:10,690 --> 01:22:12,610
I probably won't.
Yeah.

1430
01:22:12,610 --> 01:22:15,250
This was like 250 bucks a month
for three months.

1431
01:22:15,250 --> 01:22:18,050
Yeah, that's not hideous, but it
was.

1432
01:22:18,690 --> 01:22:22,570
It was a good experience.
Yeah, so your your Airton gig.

1433
01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:26,850
Seems to be a great like full
circle kind of fit for you.

1434
01:22:27,650 --> 01:22:31,650
It it's fascinating when when
the opportunity came about,

1435
01:22:31,690 --> 01:22:33,810
which I have to thank Ben
Saltzman for because he's the

1436
01:22:33,810 --> 01:22:35,330
one that brought the opportunity
to me.

1437
01:22:35,450 --> 01:22:38,730
Which is pretty cool considering
you guys had a bit of a divorce.

1438
01:22:38,770 --> 01:22:41,530
And then we did, yeah, but it's
all good.

1439
01:22:41,690 --> 01:22:43,650
Like I said, he's one of my
closest friends.

1440
01:22:45,010 --> 01:22:47,890
I think something I had said to
you in in some previous

1441
01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:51,050
exchanges, I have a bit of a, I
have bit of itchy feet

1442
01:22:51,050 --> 01:22:55,040
sometimes.
And yeah, the the the late

1443
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,360
morning to Rudin used to bust my
balls and say I've had one job

1444
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:02,720
for 25 years, you've had 25 jobs
in 25 years, which is not

1445
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:04,720
correct, but it was funny
anyway.

1446
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:08,240
No, but I can understand.
I mean, sometimes it's not even

1447
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:11,320
that you're disloyal or any of
those things.

1448
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,490
It's just my job's done here.
You know what?

1449
01:23:13,490 --> 01:23:15,090
What can I do next?
You know?

1450
01:23:15,610 --> 01:23:18,970
And that that's happened to me.
Like, you know, I went from

1451
01:23:18,970 --> 01:23:22,730
Martin where I worked my ass
off, made X amount of dollars.

1452
01:23:23,090 --> 01:23:27,970
You know it it was a thankless
thing where I just worked so

1453
01:23:27,970 --> 01:23:32,770
hard, traveled like a lunatic,
made so little money to high

1454
01:23:32,770 --> 01:23:35,530
end.
Where I made this much money, I

1455
01:23:35,530 --> 01:23:38,810
had no real function.
I had the wackiest title.

1456
01:23:38,810 --> 01:23:40,130
I can't even remember what it
was.

1457
01:23:40,130 --> 01:23:42,810
VP of something or other that
meant nothing.

1458
01:23:43,070 --> 01:23:47,270
I actually asked Lowell Fowler,
So what do I do?

1459
01:23:47,710 --> 01:23:50,390
You know, if I take this job,
what am I going to do?

1460
01:23:50,390 --> 01:23:53,350
And he goes, well, apparently
there's some people that don't

1461
01:23:53,350 --> 01:23:56,430
like us too much and, you know,
just talk to him.

1462
01:23:58,550 --> 01:24:00,790
And I'm thinking that's a job.
Like, really?

1463
01:24:01,190 --> 01:24:05,390
That's what you want me to do?
And so, I mean, I did that for a

1464
01:24:05,390 --> 01:24:07,470
little while.
I I played golf.

1465
01:24:07,470 --> 01:24:08,910
I I hung out.
I.

1466
01:24:09,850 --> 01:24:12,810
Was bored to tears.
And finally I went to Griff, who

1467
01:24:12,810 --> 01:24:16,690
was the VP of sales at the time,
and I said put me in coach, you

1468
01:24:16,730 --> 01:24:18,730
know, I'm bored.
I can't just keep doing this,

1469
01:24:18,730 --> 01:24:21,130
you know?
And so I did sales for a little

1470
01:24:21,130 --> 01:24:23,330
while for them.
And again, it was just like,

1471
01:24:23,330 --> 01:24:26,130
yeah, I can't.
This isn't satisfying to me.

1472
01:24:26,450 --> 01:24:30,210
And I feel like I'm collecting
too big of a paycheck from you

1473
01:24:30,690 --> 01:24:33,250
to be unsatisfied for me.
And I don't think I'm bringing

1474
01:24:33,250 --> 01:24:35,370
you enough value.
So it's time to go.

1475
01:24:36,210 --> 01:24:40,700
And really, that was it.
But anyways, sorry.

1476
01:24:40,740 --> 01:24:46,820
Yeah, so that Oh no, it's okay.
So when this opportunity came

1477
01:24:46,820 --> 01:24:49,740
around, people are like, man,
that's like the perfect gig.

1478
01:24:49,980 --> 01:24:56,740
And in a way it is because I can
harness the amount of years I've

1479
01:24:56,740 --> 01:25:00,260
been in this business because
eventually you just end up

1480
01:25:00,260 --> 01:25:05,660
knowing a lot of people and sort
of apply my background and all

1481
01:25:05,660 --> 01:25:08,100
the all that I've learned and
all that, the people that I've

1482
01:25:08,100 --> 01:25:10,160
learned from.
But in some ways it's the

1483
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,760
hardest job I've ever had.
Because when you used to be in

1484
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:17,240
the Art of the Deal guy, you
walk away with that PO in your

1485
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:23,280
hand.
And this is a much more, I don't

1486
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:27,880
know, fluid kind of a situation
where my job is to to work with

1487
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:31,720
the designers Dr. the
specifications help them achieve

1488
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,040
their vision and and that whole
goodwill thing like you were

1489
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:37,880
talking about.
Designers are like herding cats

1490
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,600
even even people that I'm
really, really good friends

1491
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:42,720
with.
They just it's not like a rental

1492
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:44,640
shop owner who you could always
talk to.

1493
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:48,960
You're busy, they don't want to
be bothered and so it's it has

1494
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:53,920
its challenges, but it it is,
it's a good time and place for

1495
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:55,240
sure.
Well, the other challenging

1496
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:58,560
thing is you're no longer brand
agnostic.

1497
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:02,320
You know you're you're tied to 1
brand and Ayrton's an amazing

1498
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:05,120
brand and you're fortunate to be
tied to an incredible brand.

1499
01:26:05,830 --> 01:26:07,670
But you're still tied to 1
brand.

1500
01:26:07,670 --> 01:26:12,430
And so it's almost like you're
not allowed to be friends with

1501
01:26:12,430 --> 01:26:14,590
those guys on the other side
over there.

1502
01:26:14,590 --> 01:26:16,350
You know those guys at the Robi
booth.

1503
01:26:16,350 --> 01:26:18,310
I don't.
Did I see you talking to Craig

1504
01:26:18,310 --> 01:26:19,790
Burrows?
What were you guys talking

1505
01:26:19,790 --> 01:26:22,110
about?
You know, the best part of this

1506
01:26:22,110 --> 01:26:25,350
industry though, is that for the
most part, I am friends with

1507
01:26:25,350 --> 01:26:27,550
almost every competitor I can
think of.

1508
01:26:28,190 --> 01:26:31,150
And you know, Craig and I go
back 40 years.

1509
01:26:31,150 --> 01:26:35,130
Yeah, yeah.
You know, Marty Postma was one

1510
01:26:35,130 --> 01:26:37,970
of the first people I ever
brought to Clay Paki when he was

1511
01:26:38,410 --> 01:26:42,410
Alice In Chains designer.
And so, yeah, it's good.

1512
01:26:42,730 --> 01:26:45,490
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's cool.

1513
01:26:45,490 --> 01:26:49,970
So you your territory is what,
the US or North America?

1514
01:26:50,090 --> 01:26:54,730
Yeah, my title is North America,
but in in all reality it's it's

1515
01:26:54,730 --> 01:27:00,450
the States because there's the
majority of any kind of high

1516
01:27:00,450 --> 01:27:05,890
level design stuff in Canada
comes out Of Montreal and that's

1517
01:27:05,890 --> 01:27:10,450
Quebecois.
So Fabian, who is my counterpart

1518
01:27:10,490 --> 01:27:14,490
in France?
Handles my He handles a lot of

1519
01:27:14,490 --> 01:27:17,130
that.
Yeah, and then you got a J Penn.

1520
01:27:17,290 --> 01:27:18,690
Where's he?
He's in Toronto.

1521
01:27:18,690 --> 01:27:20,250
He's in.
He's in your side.

1522
01:27:20,250 --> 01:27:25,130
I think he's Western.
Well, actually, isn't he in the

1523
01:27:25,130 --> 01:27:27,010
US now?
He's in Portland OR something.

1524
01:27:27,130 --> 01:27:28,730
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, but.

1525
01:27:29,050 --> 01:27:31,770
I think he's from Toronto, if I
remember correctly.

1526
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:36,400
But he spends most of his time
in in Portland I think.

1527
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:40,840
But yeah, now that's that's
cool.

1528
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,440
I mean I'm, I'm happy for you.
I think you're a great fit.

1529
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:45,440
Again, nothing against Chris
Lowe's.

1530
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:47,320
I I think Chris Lowe's is a
great guy.

1531
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:54,720
He's a really good designer.
Not positive he had exactly like

1532
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:58,960
you got to have a certain thing
to be in your role.

1533
01:27:59,470 --> 01:28:01,750
And there's a certain hardness
to it.

1534
01:28:01,950 --> 01:28:06,110
And you need to want the crumbs
on your side of the table.

1535
01:28:06,230 --> 01:28:07,830
Sort of, yeah.
Yeah.

1536
01:28:07,830 --> 01:28:09,390
I mean, that's a good way to say
it.

1537
01:28:09,390 --> 01:28:12,990
You know, it's it's it's
definitely a challenging gig.

1538
01:28:12,990 --> 01:28:15,710
It can be a really, really
challenging gig and but it can

1539
01:28:15,710 --> 01:28:18,510
certainly be very, very
rewarding when you're standing

1540
01:28:18,510 --> 01:28:21,550
in front of house next to the
designer going ah, you know

1541
01:28:21,550 --> 01:28:24,590
that's exactly how I thought you
were going to make my stuff look

1542
01:28:25,150 --> 01:28:28,190
And and it is, you know, it's
great people, great company.

1543
01:28:28,190 --> 01:28:32,830
You know Yvonne is just an
amazing individual and he really

1544
01:28:32,830 --> 01:28:35,790
frante and altels and altels and
I've known each other since, you

1545
01:28:35,790 --> 01:28:40,870
know back at the MA days.
So yeah it's it's all very good.

1546
01:28:40,870 --> 01:28:46,630
And Jared Garza, who is the the
North American account manager,

1547
01:28:48,590 --> 01:28:51,550
I knew him when he worked at
Gemini way, way, way back.

1548
01:28:51,950 --> 01:28:53,150
Yeah.
So there's a lot of

1549
01:28:53,150 --> 01:28:55,990
interconnectivity.
Jared's the North American

1550
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:58,110
account manager.
What's that he handles he

1551
01:28:58,110 --> 01:29:02,430
handles act but he he also deals
with Mexico and and all of the

1552
01:29:02,430 --> 01:29:06,390
Americas actually North America,
South America everything like

1553
01:29:06,390 --> 01:29:07,510
that.
He he handles all the.

1554
01:29:07,790 --> 01:29:09,790
He's like the.
Regional Sales manager for the

1555
01:29:09,790 --> 01:29:11,470
manufacturer, basically,
correct.

1556
01:29:11,510 --> 01:29:16,750
I don't do.
I don't deal with any exchange

1557
01:29:16,750 --> 01:29:19,870
of paper like I don't, I don't
quote anybody.

1558
01:29:19,870 --> 01:29:22,930
I don't get P O's.
What a great gig.

1559
01:29:23,450 --> 01:29:25,490
You don't have a sales target
now.

1560
01:29:25,490 --> 01:29:27,410
Years ago my daughter said Dad,
what?

1561
01:29:27,450 --> 01:29:29,690
What exactly is it that you do
now?

1562
01:29:29,690 --> 01:29:31,770
And I said I get paid to take
people to dinner.

1563
01:29:31,890 --> 01:29:34,330
I was just being sarcastic at
the time, but.

1564
01:29:34,810 --> 01:29:38,850
There's kind of big part of the
gig, you know, It's really just

1565
01:29:39,530 --> 01:29:41,930
doing what you love to do, which
is having really great

1566
01:29:41,930 --> 01:29:43,530
relationships with the people
out there.

1567
01:29:43,890 --> 01:29:48,010
Yeah, you know, I I heard a
quote and I think you probably

1568
01:29:48,010 --> 01:29:53,010
told it to me, but.
Somebody said that your hobby is

1569
01:29:53,010 --> 01:29:55,970
having hobbies.
Yeah, that was Ryan Hindinger at

1570
01:29:55,970 --> 01:29:56,850
ACT.
Is that true?

1571
01:29:56,850 --> 01:29:59,210
That was, yeah, because I got
too many hobbies.

1572
01:29:59,850 --> 01:30:02,610
Like what?
Hunting.

1573
01:30:02,610 --> 01:30:04,690
Fishing.
Fly tying?

1574
01:30:04,690 --> 01:30:07,650
Cooking.
So the fly time guitar.

1575
01:30:08,850 --> 01:30:13,850
So I have a house up in Canada
that we already talked about in.

1576
01:30:13,850 --> 01:30:15,490
My house is in a place called
Canmore.

1577
01:30:15,490 --> 01:30:18,010
I tell people Banff, because
most people have heard of Banff,

1578
01:30:18,010 --> 01:30:19,490
but nobody's ever heard of
Canmore.

1579
01:30:20,090 --> 01:30:22,090
Canmore's a little town before
you get to Banff.

1580
01:30:22,090 --> 01:30:25,170
The reason I have a house there
is because Banff is in a

1581
01:30:25,170 --> 01:30:29,570
National Park.
You can't own land there, and

1582
01:30:29,570 --> 01:30:33,610
you can only buy a house there
if you work there.

1583
01:30:33,770 --> 01:30:36,450
So you have to physically live
there and work in Banff.

1584
01:30:36,450 --> 01:30:40,450
They don't want foreign owners,
basically, whereas in Canmore

1585
01:30:40,450 --> 01:30:42,170
they don't give a shit.
They sell me a house, they'll

1586
01:30:42,170 --> 01:30:46,810
sell anybody a house, right?
But my neighbor in Canmore.

1587
01:30:47,230 --> 01:30:49,950
Is, and you might.
You're a football guy, right?

1588
01:30:50,990 --> 01:30:53,710
You know who Gary Anderson is?
No.

1589
01:30:54,110 --> 01:30:57,990
Gary Anderson, I believe to this
day still has the record for the

1590
01:30:57,990 --> 01:31:00,670
most points ever gained in the
NFL.

1591
01:31:00,910 --> 01:31:05,390
He was a kicker and he I think
he played for.

1592
01:31:05,390 --> 01:31:08,070
I know Minnesota for a long
time, I think Atlanta.

1593
01:31:08,510 --> 01:31:11,470
But Gary Anderson's my neighbor,
and he's a fly fishing.

1594
01:31:11,940 --> 01:31:16,340
Guide He's got a guide business
that he brings in rich guys from

1595
01:31:16,460 --> 01:31:19,100
all over the place and take some
fly fishing and stuff.

1596
01:31:19,100 --> 01:31:23,340
But where I'm at apparently, is
a pretty big fly fishing place

1597
01:31:23,340 --> 01:31:27,820
up there, the the Bow River
going through Western Canada.

1598
01:31:27,820 --> 01:31:30,420
It's a beautiful part of the
world, for sure you.

1599
01:31:30,420 --> 01:31:32,180
Should come on up sometime and
go fishing?

1600
01:31:32,740 --> 01:31:34,380
Absolutely.
So what else?

1601
01:31:34,380 --> 01:31:35,220
Fishing.
Hunting.

1602
01:31:35,900 --> 01:31:36,940
Fishing.
Hunting.

1603
01:31:36,940 --> 01:31:39,420
Cooking BBQ, I build my own
arrows.

1604
01:31:39,420 --> 01:31:42,460
I tie my own flies.
Jesus, who's got time for that?

1605
01:31:42,580 --> 01:31:46,340
I had my own hobby fly tying
business for a while and built

1606
01:31:46,340 --> 01:31:49,500
an e-commerce website back in
the in like 2000.

1607
01:31:49,780 --> 01:31:52,940
I had no idea what I was doing
and and it worked.

1608
01:31:53,060 --> 01:31:55,340
Now you could have probably sold
it for a billion dollars.

1609
01:31:55,340 --> 01:31:57,340
I know and instead I just
stopped.

1610
01:31:57,340 --> 01:32:00,740
Everything is a billion dollars
on the Internet into right.

1611
01:32:00,740 --> 01:32:06,580
It is in 2002 the the main fly
fishing magazine publications

1612
01:32:06,580 --> 01:32:12,420
called Fly Fisherman magazine
and they awarded me the best fly

1613
01:32:12,420 --> 01:32:16,340
of the year for the saltwater
category and and that kind of

1614
01:32:16,340 --> 01:32:19,260
killed my business because I'm
working at T MB I'm raising

1615
01:32:19,260 --> 01:32:21,140
girls who at the time we're
we're little kids.

1616
01:32:21,780 --> 01:32:27,020
I'm traveling all the time and
it I couldn't keep up with it so

1617
01:32:27,020 --> 01:32:29,740
I stopped doing it.
I still tie all the time for

1618
01:32:29,740 --> 01:32:32,340
myself, but I stopped selling
them.

1619
01:32:33,100 --> 01:32:37,460
I've given flies to Allen
Branton before and people in our

1620
01:32:37,460 --> 01:32:41,020
industry like Roger Waters is a
big fly fisherman.

1621
01:32:41,300 --> 01:32:43,100
Eric Clapton's a big fly
fisherman.

1622
01:32:43,660 --> 01:32:45,780
There's there's some people out
there, but Colin and Marshall

1623
01:32:45,780 --> 01:32:49,700
are the ones that got me into
the fly fishing end of things.

1624
01:32:50,220 --> 01:32:54,900
And I just started tying and all
of a sudden discovered I had

1625
01:32:54,900 --> 01:32:58,500
this weird knack for it that I I
just got really, really good,

1626
01:32:58,500 --> 01:33:01,220
really fast.
And I used to tie it at fly

1627
01:33:01,220 --> 01:33:03,790
tying shows all up and down the
East Coast.

1628
01:33:03,790 --> 01:33:07,030
I've got lots of articles, you
know, published.

1629
01:33:07,070 --> 01:33:10,030
I used to get paid by magazines
to write articles about myself.

1630
01:33:10,230 --> 01:33:11,910
I'm like, yeah, that's a gig I
could do.

1631
01:33:12,270 --> 01:33:14,590
No shit.
So that was pretty cool.

1632
01:33:14,670 --> 01:33:18,350
That's very cool, I thought.
I thought Colin and Marshall

1633
01:33:18,350 --> 01:33:22,320
were both like like.
Big game fishermen, like

1634
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:25,440
offshore fishermen.
No, it's it's saltwater fly

1635
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:27,200
fishing.
And that's my passion as well.

1636
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,800
Like, I do the trout thing and I
fish for bass and stuff like

1637
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:33,360
that with a fly rod.
But it's it's the flats you're

1638
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:37,400
fishing for.
Tarpon permit, bonefish, snook.

1639
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:41,360
You know these these fish that
inhabit very shallow Clearwater

1640
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:44,840
in beautiful parts of the world.
I can't do it as much as I would

1641
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:50,420
like because it's expensive, but
it's, you know, I I fished in

1642
01:33:50,420 --> 01:33:53,980
the Bahamas in Mexico.
I fished in Canada, I fished in

1643
01:33:53,980 --> 01:33:56,660
California all over different
states, in the United States.

1644
01:33:56,660 --> 01:34:01,740
Yeah, it's it's a huge fabric.
Well, and you used to be able to

1645
01:34:01,740 --> 01:34:04,580
buy a place in the Keys for
pretty cheap, but not so much

1646
01:34:04,580 --> 01:34:05,780
anymore.
So much anymore.

1647
01:34:06,700 --> 01:34:09,300
Yeah, you couldn't buy, you
couldn't buy a place in

1648
01:34:09,300 --> 01:34:10,380
Homestead.
Cheap.

1649
01:34:10,540 --> 01:34:13,020
Yeah, I know.
Well, Nick Freed had a.

1650
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:16,960
Place in the Keys in in Island,
Colorado.

1651
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:25,800
And you know, I I know what he
paid for it and I think he made

1652
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:28,120
almost $1,000,000 selling the
place.

1653
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:18,600
I fish with him down there
before.

1654
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:31,720
Like, you know, whatever, 10
years later, less than 10 years

1655
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:35,200
later maybe.
And yeah, it's just gone crazy

1656
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:37,360
down there.
I've always talked about buying

1657
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,410
a place in the Keys.
I actually did at one point.

1658
01:34:40,410 --> 01:34:43,450
Like, I signed a contract, I
paid a deposit, and then I

1659
01:34:43,450 --> 01:34:45,570
backed out of it because I
couldn't even get down there to

1660
01:34:45,570 --> 01:34:48,170
meet like somebody to do an
inspection.

1661
01:34:48,170 --> 01:34:52,010
And I hadn't even seen the place
yet and I didn't have time to go

1662
01:34:52,010 --> 01:34:53,890
see it.
And I was like, you know what,

1663
01:34:53,890 --> 01:34:56,490
this is a sign.
If I can't make the time to go

1664
01:34:56,490 --> 01:34:59,490
meet the inspector, I probably
can't make the time to use it

1665
01:34:59,490 --> 01:35:01,740
so.
And now I kicked myself because

1666
01:35:01,740 --> 01:35:04,820
I would have accidentally made
$1,000,000, right?

1667
01:35:05,140 --> 01:35:07,780
But I never would have sold it
If I ever bought a place in the

1668
01:35:07,780 --> 01:35:09,980
keys.
I can't imagine getting out of

1669
01:35:09,980 --> 01:35:13,020
there, but Nick's place was
cool.

1670
01:35:13,220 --> 01:35:15,340
Yeah, I went.
I went down there one time and

1671
01:35:15,340 --> 01:35:17,700
and fished with the Three
Amigos.

1672
01:35:17,700 --> 01:35:22,540
We went offshore for black fin
tuna and rotten and I had a

1673
01:35:22,540 --> 01:35:25,220
really good time.
I think Noel still has a place

1674
01:35:25,220 --> 01:35:28,290
down there.
He sold his one place.

1675
01:35:28,290 --> 01:35:30,330
Whether he's he rebought again
or not, I don't.

1676
01:35:30,330 --> 01:35:31,850
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.

1677
01:35:31,850 --> 01:35:34,850
I know Gary's in like a condo in
Fort Lauderdale or something.

1678
01:35:35,210 --> 01:35:40,210
Nick went up to Port Saint
Richie, Port Richey, Port

1679
01:35:40,650 --> 01:35:43,890
Richey, Port Richey.
I think that sounds right.

1680
01:35:44,930 --> 01:35:47,530
I get it confused with Port
Saint Lucie, Port Richey.

1681
01:35:47,530 --> 01:35:50,570
I think it's called our New Port
Richey, New Port Richey, That's

1682
01:35:50,570 --> 01:35:53,530
it.
Yeah, it's north of Tampa on

1683
01:35:53,530 --> 01:35:58,080
that coast, on the left coast.
But he says it's great fishing

1684
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:00,920
and lots of musicians live up
there and he got a big place

1685
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:02,840
with lots of land and he's
pretty happy.

1686
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:08,480
So I usually do this with
designers and you're more of a

1687
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:12,480
designer relations guy, but I
like to do this go to gear

1688
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:18,720
section where your your top five
go to pieces of gear that you

1689
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:21,360
got to put on a show.
So no matter what show you're

1690
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:24,360
going to do, what's what are the
top five things in your toolbox?

1691
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:29,420
And.
They can't all be heriton all

1692
01:36:29,420 --> 01:36:31,140
right.
I have to say the domino long

1693
01:36:31,140 --> 01:36:34,020
throw just to give give props to
to.

1694
01:36:34,780 --> 01:36:37,020
It is a pretty cool fixture that
is an awesome.

1695
01:36:37,100 --> 01:36:40,340
Awesome light, by the way.
Just to change subjects here

1696
01:36:40,340 --> 01:36:44,260
again.
But you know, I kind of chuckled

1697
01:36:44,260 --> 01:36:46,980
when I saw the wash light coming
out, the domino wash light.

1698
01:36:46,980 --> 01:36:48,820
And I know that that's a Chris
thing.

1699
01:36:48,820 --> 01:36:51,340
Chris is a big fan of wash
lights and he thinks there's a

1700
01:36:51,340 --> 01:36:53,500
huge spot still in the world for
wash lights.

1701
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:56,120
And I was like, I don't know.
I don't know.

1702
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:59,080
I don't know.
But I've seen some of the images

1703
01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:00,920
of stuff they're doing with that
wash light.

1704
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:04,400
Like there was a demo video of
where they lit that big building

1705
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:06,640
in Europe.
I was blown away.

1706
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:10,600
That thing is just like a beast
there.

1707
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:14,080
There is a there's a spec out
right now in the United States

1708
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:16,080
for a significant amount of
them.

1709
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:19,840
So we'll see where that goes.
It's it it it really is a very

1710
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:20,960
nice light.
It's beautiful.

1711
01:37:22,380 --> 01:37:24,100
Everything.
Everything is so well done

1712
01:37:24,100 --> 01:37:26,260
there.
So anyway that would be that

1713
01:37:26,260 --> 01:37:28,060
would be domino long throw would
be good.

1714
01:37:29,500 --> 01:37:37,180
Obviously an MA desk would be 1.
In two mode or three mode, 03

1715
01:37:37,180 --> 01:37:40,260
mode all the way by the.
By the way, this is coming from

1716
01:37:40,260 --> 01:37:45,740
somebody who cannot program and.
Like it makes a real difference

1717
01:37:45,740 --> 01:37:47,860
to you?
Yeah, exactly.

1718
01:37:49,580 --> 01:37:55,350
A good hazer and I'd have to
give a shout out to an ace to to

1719
01:37:55,470 --> 01:37:57,150
a C L's.
I still think that's like an

1720
01:37:57,150 --> 01:38:00,150
awesome.
That's awesome.

1721
01:38:00,150 --> 01:38:06,270
Look.
Yeah, And so I got one more.

1722
01:38:06,630 --> 01:38:07,270
I'm trying.
I'm trying.

1723
01:38:07,270 --> 01:38:10,910
I'm trying to.
Well, you have a hard edge and

1724
01:38:10,910 --> 01:38:13,230
you have an ACL.
You're going to need some sort

1725
01:38:13,230 --> 01:38:18,070
of an LED wash or something or
other.

1726
01:38:18,550 --> 01:38:21,620
You need a wash light, son?
Yeah, I know I do.

1727
01:38:21,940 --> 01:38:24,060
Right now you got a hazer, a
spot, and an ACL.

1728
01:38:24,060 --> 01:38:27,340
It's a pretty shitty show.
All right, then the Zonda 9

1729
01:38:27,340 --> 01:38:29,740
effects.
There you go to keep it in the

1730
01:38:29,740 --> 01:38:31,540
family.
How are those things doing?

1731
01:38:31,540 --> 01:38:34,340
Because I think it's an
incredible looking fixture, but

1732
01:38:34,740 --> 01:38:36,860
they're doing well.
We had some, we had some

1733
01:38:36,860 --> 01:38:40,380
slowdowns and shipping, yeah,
which kind of stalled things for

1734
01:38:40,380 --> 01:38:42,220
a little bit.
The threes out now, which is

1735
01:38:42,220 --> 01:38:43,420
really cool.
Yeah.

1736
01:38:44,620 --> 01:38:47,420
Is the three out selling the
9:00 or the nine out selling 3?

1737
01:38:47,420 --> 01:38:50,750
Yeah, the nine is still the the
the one that's selling the most

1738
01:38:50,750 --> 01:38:53,590
of, but it's yeah, it's doing
well.

1739
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:56,830
There was just some some
corporate gig for Delta Airlines

1740
01:38:56,830 --> 01:38:59,110
that had like 136 of them on
there.

1741
01:38:59,550 --> 01:39:03,790
We're going to have 200 and some
on our booth at Pro Light

1742
01:39:05,230 --> 01:39:06,390
because our booth's not that
big.

1743
01:39:06,750 --> 01:39:09,590
There's like 100 Cobras and and
a couple of 100.

1744
01:39:09,870 --> 01:39:11,950
Wow, yeah.
Jesus.

1745
01:39:13,030 --> 01:39:15,350
Yeah.
I mean, I loved how.

1746
01:39:15,940 --> 01:39:20,140
It was shown at LDI like that.
Is it called liquid effect?

1747
01:39:20,540 --> 01:39:22,860
Yes.
Is, you know, I think

1748
01:39:22,860 --> 01:39:25,620
everybody's got their different
version of eye candy, what eye

1749
01:39:25,620 --> 01:39:29,580
candy should look like.
But to me, that was super cool.

1750
01:39:30,020 --> 01:39:32,780
Just a really, really cool look.
It is.

1751
01:39:32,820 --> 01:39:37,460
It is not as as one high profile
person put it in a demo is

1752
01:39:37,460 --> 01:39:39,660
doing, they said.
This is not a gag.

1753
01:39:40,140 --> 01:39:41,940
No, no.
It's something that you'd

1754
01:39:41,940 --> 01:39:44,140
actually use.
Not just once either.

1755
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:47,240
Yeah, it's it's definitely very,
very cool.

1756
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:50,520
Yeah, I like it.
Did I miss anything, Brian?

1757
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:52,760
I don't know.
We've been an hour and a half.

1758
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:56,040
I'm sure you probably have
lights to go get spect.

1759
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:59,000
No, it's just the whole, well,
the ACT component.

1760
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:03,760
We can't like we can't not, not.
Talk about Ben and how, Yeah, we

1761
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:05,760
didn't talk about Act.
Yeah.

1762
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:10,200
So after the whole T MB thing
kind of ran its course for me,

1763
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:15,480
which was 10 years, I opened.
Backed East Coast in 2006 just

1764
01:40:15,480 --> 01:40:22,240
like I did for T MB in 1996.
Ben joined about a year later

1765
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:28,200
and and that was a great ride.
That was a really good ride I

1766
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:31,080
got to.
I got to really step into a

1767
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,080
leadership role.
I ended up being the VP of sales

1768
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:36,520
and marketing and I built a
sales team from scratch that

1769
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:38,480
didn't exist.
It was just Bob.

1770
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:42,720
It was just Bob and me really at
that point and.

1771
01:40:44,430 --> 01:40:46,990
You know it, it was a great,
great experience.

1772
01:40:47,790 --> 01:40:54,390
And after the investors, when
Ben bought Bob out a couple

1773
01:40:54,390 --> 01:40:56,950
years later, it was again, it
was just time for me to do

1774
01:40:56,950 --> 01:41:02,110
something different and I was
the sales director for the USGLP

1775
01:41:02,110 --> 01:41:04,950
for for two years until COVID
put an end to that.

1776
01:41:05,310 --> 01:41:08,150
Yeah.
And again, more BBQ happening

1777
01:41:08,150 --> 01:41:12,350
there and no, but I, you know
what the cool thing is?

1778
01:41:12,350 --> 01:41:15,990
You've you've done a great job.
You've built a unbelievable

1779
01:41:15,990 --> 01:41:20,070
network, probably an enviable
network from, you know, in our

1780
01:41:20,070 --> 01:41:23,510
industry.
And that means you're never

1781
01:41:23,510 --> 01:41:28,310
unemployed, you know, you know,
God forbid I were ever to lose

1782
01:41:28,310 --> 01:41:30,990
my company or anything, I would
never be unemployed.

1783
01:41:31,070 --> 01:41:36,620
I just know way too many people
and I'm effective like you are.

1784
01:41:37,140 --> 01:41:40,620
And so that's a that's a great
trait.

1785
01:41:40,620 --> 01:41:43,660
Like I, you know, my son's 18
years old and he's a racing

1786
01:41:43,660 --> 01:41:48,460
driver and and I try to teach
him to make time for every

1787
01:41:48,460 --> 01:41:51,140
single person that he meets when
he's at the track, whether it's

1788
01:41:51,140 --> 01:41:55,020
a mechanic or it's the guy
putting the tires on your car or

1789
01:41:55,020 --> 01:41:59,460
it's, you know, the guy rolling
tires down the thing to take him

1790
01:41:59,460 --> 01:42:01,780
to the garbage.
I don't care who the person is,

1791
01:42:02,140 --> 01:42:04,580
you know, Treat the janitor the
same way you treat the team

1792
01:42:04,580 --> 01:42:07,580
owner, and you're going to get
pretty far in life.

1793
01:42:07,580 --> 01:42:12,020
And you know you're only as good
as your network, right?

1794
01:42:12,340 --> 01:42:14,500
And your network's going to keep
you employed forever.

1795
01:42:14,580 --> 01:42:17,100
Unfortunately, you're not going
to get to retire anytime soon.

1796
01:42:18,780 --> 01:42:20,980
I'm I'm not interested in
retiring right now.

1797
01:42:21,100 --> 01:42:23,940
It's not good.
Well, I want to invite you to

1798
01:42:23,940 --> 01:42:27,900
Florida to come and BBQ for me,
but I don't know 700 people, so

1799
01:42:27,900 --> 01:42:30,340
I can't.
I'm going to have to find a

1800
01:42:30,340 --> 01:42:35,300
reason to drag you out of
retirement again and and make

1801
01:42:35,300 --> 01:42:37,940
you cook, but I can't figure out
what that is right now.

1802
01:42:37,980 --> 01:42:40,220
Maybe in Canada.
Maybe we'll do something cool in

1803
01:42:40,220 --> 01:42:41,460
Canada.
There you go.

1804
01:42:41,940 --> 01:42:43,580
Yeah.
And it'll be a small group, Not

1805
01:42:43,580 --> 01:42:47,900
700, maybe 10.
Yeah, which is much better.

1806
01:42:48,220 --> 01:42:50,540
I like that too.
All right, Brian.

1807
01:42:50,540 --> 01:42:52,580
Well, thank you so much for
taking the time to do this.

1808
01:42:52,580 --> 01:42:55,860
I appreciate it very much.
Thank you for the opportunity,

1809
01:42:55,900 --> 01:42:58,340
man.
Good luck with your good luck

1810
01:42:58,340 --> 01:43:00,300
with your 4 wall thing.
I wish I could be there, but

1811
01:43:00,300 --> 01:43:03,140
I'll actually be up in Canada.
I'd leave in May this year, so

1812
01:43:03,620 --> 01:43:06,420
it'll be pretty epic.
Yeah, well, it sounds like it.

1813
01:43:06,540 --> 01:43:08,260
I can't wait to see pictures and
stuff.

1814
01:43:08,420 --> 01:43:11,300
That'll be cool.
All right, my friend.

1815
01:43:11,420 --> 01:43:12,060
Have a good.
One.

1816
01:43:12,540 --> 01:43:13,620
All right.
Take care of myself.

1817
01:43:13,620 --> 01:43:14,380
I'll chat with you later.
Bye.

1818
01:43:14,420 --> 01:43:15,260
All right.
See you.

1819
01:43:44,350 --> 01:43:49,310
Sweet 16 A better picture from a
warm, wet dream.

1820
01:43:50,190 --> 01:43:57,670
Come on over for rendezvous
competitivism is a fuel you

1821
01:43:57,750 --> 01:43:59,970
like.
Back out in the God old band

1822
01:44:01,130 --> 01:44:04,050
y'all.
Where are the one that stands

1823
01:44:05,130 --> 01:44:07,370
that don't bother a girl like
you.

1824
01:44:08,570 --> 01:44:11,250
You get your cake and you eat it
too.

1825
01:44:11,250 --> 01:44:18,330
You're my sweet sweet thing.
You never buy But you always

1826
01:44:18,450 --> 01:44:21,290
think you're my sweet sweet
child.

1827
01:44:23,290 --> 01:44:26,130
Come on over and drive me wild.